How Israel Fights: Inside the Mossad w/ Zohar Palti (Transcript)

That night, the Iranians for the first time decided to launch 300 ballistic missiles from Iran’s soil, cruise missiles and attack UAVs against our families in one night.

Thank God that we have outstanding defensive air systems. A lot of them built with the help of the Americans. We have the Iron Dome, the David’s Sling and the Arrow. We intercepted most of them. We protected our families. But then we realized that the ballistic missiles and the fact that the Iranians want to launch thousands of them, in a way it’s becoming a very, very serious threat to the states of Israel. The combination of the nuclear and the ballistic missiles.

It seems to me that right now this is the reason that we are in this campaign. With the fact that the Iranian regime brutally decided, last January 8th and 9th, to murder thousands of Iranians. The numbers are between 5,000 to 30,000 — nobody knows exactly. And that’s why your president came and said, “The help is on the way.”

When America says, “The help is on the way,” when you’re a big ship, you’re a big carrier, you’re not doing it from today to tomorrow. It took like five, six weeks in order to generate everything. And of course, shoulder to shoulder with you, we came. And it seems to me that that’s what we see right now.

The Iranian Nuclear and Ballistic Missile Threat

PETER ROBINSON: So Israel’s been at war for more than two years now, since October 7th, as you said yourself. And then after the 12-day war of last year, we were told that the Iranian program was crippled. Hard to figure out. Some said it was put away, some said, well, at least a year or two from the Israeli point of view. Why now?

ZOHAR PALTI: I said it. I think I can crystallize this issue a bit. The combination of the nuclear data was the first priority. Most of the job — Fordow and the others — in June, they were remaining, and the Iranians were striving to think about how to expedite this program. But basically most of the nuclear issue was settled — was not settled, but we took care of it basically in the June campaign.

All right, what we found out is that they started to manufacture thousands of ballistic missiles. Now, every democratic country that wants to live like we are living, like in America — you know, it’s a free society, people prefer to go to work and to go have whatever normal life. If the Iranians will decide to launch this attack of thousands of ballistic missiles, that will create something — I don’t want to use the same word, existential, like the nuclear — but not far from that.

PETER ROBINSON: But distinguish between ballistic missiles and the kinds of rockets that Hezbollah has been popping over Israel for years now. Explain, just explain so we can follow.

ZOHAR PALTI: So ballistic missiles — I don’t know if you saw the pictures, but the engine of the ballistic missiles is like this stage, only the engine. Now the body is another one. It’s huge, it’s from here till the wall. And so many kilograms of C4 in this issue. Each ballistic missile that we are not intercepting — and thank God that we have the Arrow Two and the Arrow Three to intercept it if it’s falling in a populated area.

Take for example, I don’t know, something that you’re all familiar with. Take for example Manhattan, like Tel Aviv. Take Lexington. And I don’t know, whatever one of the blocks, whenever it’s hit, all the surrounding buildings in a radius of a couple of hundreds of yards are damaged and gone. One missile that we’re missing — it’s between 750 million shekel to 1.2 billion in damage. One missile. Imagine to yourself thousands of them.

Imagine yourself without the Iron Dome, without the Arrow and things like that. So in a way, it came to a point that the quantity is becoming a very serious risk to the state of Israel. And that’s why, in a way, it’s a preventive measure, and that’s why it’s so important.

And when we saw that Americans understand it — and again, see what the Iranians are doing right now in the Gulf. The Gulf states that are our partners since the Abraham Accords. Trump won. We came to the point that the Emiratis, the Bahrainis, the Moroccans, they all have peace with Israel right now. And hopefully the Saudis will join one day as well.

The Iranians are launching more than a thousand attack UAVs against the Emiratis, against the Bahrainis, against the Kuwaitis, against the Qataris, against the Saudis. I mean, the Iranians are bullying all the region right now. And the understanding was that one day they will launch this attack even without whatever the United States and Israel are doing right now. In a way, it’s preventive, in order to avoid another surprise like October 7th in the region again.

The State of the Conflict: What Has and Hasn’t Happened

PETER ROBINSON: So, Zohar — I should note for the camera that we’re recording this conversation on March 11th. So this coordinated attack by the United States and Israel has been going on for 12 days. What has happened? The Iranian supreme leader, dozens of other high officials killed. The Iranian navy essentially sent to the bottom. The Iranian capacity for launching ballistic missiles reduced — you’d know better than I, but as I read the newspapers — reduced by at least 80%. But what hasn’t happened?

ZOHAR PALTI: Regime change.

PETER ROBINSON: There’s been no popular uprising, as far as I’m aware. There aren’t even visible signs of dissent or unrest in the IRGC. The Iranians have chosen a new supreme leader, Mojtaba Khamenei. I’m hoping he doesn’t last long enough so that I have to memorize the name. They’ve widened the battle space, just as you said. They’ve closed the Strait of Hormuz and they’ve launched a couple of ballistic missiles toward Turkey, a NATO member.

ZOHAR PALTI: And Cyprus.

PETER ROBINSON: And Cyprus and Azerbaijan. And Azerbaijan is not NATO, but yes. All right, so what are they thinking? What is their motivation? They could be conciliatory. They’re not. We have a hardened regime and a widened battle space. What do they think they’re doing?

Understanding the Iranian Regime

ZOHAR PALTI: First of all, they don’t like you guys. They call you the “big Satan.” We’re in a good place right beside you, like always, and we are very proud about it. They don’t like us as well. And we are the “small Satan.” So I’m not joking, that’s how they see it.

And it’s not by coincidence that they used to have a plot over here in America to kill most of your seniors — your president, Secretary Pompeo, General Milley. I can give you some more names, but some of them are still classified. The Iranians actually hate the guts of the United States of America. It’s simple.

I know when you’re sitting over here in Palm Beach, sometimes it’s difficult to understand what I’m saying. But people — those guys — they really don’t like all the values that America is bringing. It’s a radical, fanatic, very extreme, religious in a negative way regime. They want to dominate the area. They want a military nuclear bomb, they want ballistic missiles. They want to bully their neighbors in the Gulf States, they want to wipe out the state of Israel. Quite simple what they want.

Sinwar’s Strategy and the Ring of Fire

PETER ROBINSON: Could I — you mentioned that this begins on October 7th. Yahya Sinwar was killed about a year after October 7th. Here’s what I’m getting at. To what extent are the Iranians and their proxies — we’ll come in a moment to the so-called ring of fire — to what extent are they irrational, pre-medieval, and to what extent are they genuinely strategic thinkers? So what did Sinwar, on October 6th, what did Sinwar think he was doing?

The Iran Campaign: Strategy, Targets, and the Strait of Hormuz

ZOHAR PALTI: I just saw in Hoover, Abbas Milani, Professor Abbas Milani. And I think that he is one of the greatest, if not the greatest Iranian expert. And he just published an interview two days ago and he said in a way what we see right now, that the United States of America and Israel is doing, is kind of the fall of the Berlin Wall. So maybe he’s right. I don’t know yet. Time will tell.

It’s a profound question what we want to gain when we come into regime change. I will tell you something, as a guy that used to deal with intelligence, if there is something that the intelligence community around the world, and maybe the leading one, and this is the United States and Israel regarding the Iranian issue, we don’t know how to get into the head of millions of people. We don’t know how to assess whether people will leave home tonight and will topple the regime or not.

We failed in the Soviet Union when the Soviet Union collapsed, and we failed a decade ago, more than a decade ago, in the Arab Spring, to anticipate that it will start in Egypt. As you remember, there was a coup over there. The Muslim Brotherhood took, and then it was a counter coup. In a way, it’s a wishful thinking for the time being. People have to be very courageous right now when the Basij and the IRGC are walking in the streets and threatening to kill each one of the protesters that will go out. How you measure courage right now? And they’re afraid to die.

So we as United States of North America and Israel can do the ultimate in order to diminish the risks to them, but whether to push them and whether to tell them go to the streets and topple this crazy regime, I think that this is more than a wishful thinking, than a strategic plan for the time being.

PETER ROBINSON: All right.

ZOHAR PALTI: Whether there are miracles in the Middle East. Yes. Whether I’m willing, I wish that in five minutes we will hear in the media that they are down. Yes. But it seems to me that it’s a way to go.

PETER ROBINSON: All right, so I spoke — he didn’t know I was going to quote him, so I probably shouldn’t name him — but I spoke to a not recently retired general who’s been pretty well briefed, I believe, and he said that the original division of responsibility was: United States take out their weapons systems, Israel go after their air force. But also, and this is worth spending some time on, also Israel’s job to degrade the infrastructure of repression. Hitting the big military targets was the work of days. That’s our job. Degrading the infrastructure of repression is the work of weeks. That’s your job. How’s it going?

ZOHAR PALTI: So let’s start like that. First of all, it’s not exactly like that.

PETER ROBINSON: It’s not correct. All right.

ZOHAR PALTI: No, no, I did say it’s not correct.

PETER ROBINSON: Not exactly.

Joint Operations and the Question of Victory

ZOHAR PALTI: All right. I have to be polite over here. Why? Because the nature of a battle is that things you plan when you have the PowerPoint presentation and everything, but when you’re coming actually to the battle, things are changing. And if there is right now a squadron of Americans in the air, on the contrary, an Israeli one, and you have a target — guys, we’re sitting in the same command and control room, the Americans and Israelis. So even if you used to have a plan or division, “we’ll take the east part or the west part,” and the Americans — it’s like one entity right now, meaning if there is a target and there are Israeli planes, they will do it. So that’s why I say it’s not exactly like that.

Regarding weeks, guys, you have a very, let’s say, dominant president right now over here in America. And he will decide at the end of the day whether you fulfill the mission or not. It could be in five minutes, five hours, five days, five weeks, or five months for the time being. I don’t know how to assess it. There was a lot of pressure in the last weekend because of the energy, because of the oil, because of the Strait of Hormuz — a couple of things that the US Navy have done and the Air Force, and a couple of statesmen from the president, a couple of things behind the scene. As I saw, the price of the barrel of oil yesterday reduced significantly from more than 100 to 80, something like it used to be.

PETER ROBINSON: It’s 92 as of right now.

ZOHAR PALTI: It’s 92. All right. Ups and downs. This is not something — there is not a shortage of oil yet, but there is like a traffic jam of many, many ships, and there is no doubt that there is uncertainty about where it’s heading. The LNG, gas, oil, and other issues. It seems to me that over here the leadership understands it and knows how to deal with that. It’s a matter of days till your Navy — and you have a serious navy — will deal with that issue as well.

The question whether we are fulfilling the mission and whether we can call it a victory or success — I think with the nuclear, we’re doing very good. And in a way, I think with the ballistic, we still have a way to go, whether we’re going to finish completely the ballistic. There is not zero or 100 over here, although always some remain. The question is how much we hit the military and the security infrastructure in Iran in a way that they will have difficulties in order to replenish and to rebuild their launchers, their ballistics, and their IRGC. For the time being, I don’t know how to assess it. It seems to me that we’re doing good.

If I’m doing like that — 70%, something like that, 75% — for me as an Israeli, that my family and our friends are under this threat, it’s not enough. I’d like to see some more. So if there will be more time, we’ll improve on this issue. But whether we are doing good — okay, we’re doing okay with that.

All the other — you said no Navy, no Air Force, no military industry — the Americans and Israelis took all of these targets. So when the president this morning gave an interview and he said that most of the targets are gone, in a way he is right. Whatever I’m saying about the military targets is right. Regarding how to hunt the launchers and the ballistic missiles, I think that we still need time for that in order to say that we’ve done a good job in the press.

Resupply, Defensive Munitions, and Desalination Plants

PETER ROBINSON: Over the weekend, the press turned negative in about — it took a decade for the press to turn negative in Vietnam. It took about three days in this conflict. But let me ask you about a couple of points that have been coming up again and again in the press. One, resupply of defensive munitions. When they send over a ballistic missile, you launch two or three missiles to defend our Navy. Again, we’ve been launching defensive — and apparently, you’re the expert, I am not — but apparently these things take a long time to resupply. The resupply chain is a matter of months. And the question is, will they run out of ballistic missiles before we run out of defensive missiles? I’m putting it extremely crudely, but that’s in the press. The other one, that’s maybe only a couple of days old now, is the fear of attacks on desalination plants. Let’s do it one by one.

ZOHAR PALTI: I’m a simple guy from the Middle East, you know, too complicated.

PETER ROBINSON: Okay, so the resupply of defensive munitions.

ZOHAR PALTI: Guys, you said a lot, many times the word “defense” and “resupply.” I would like to emphasize the offensive. And we’re doing — God, it’s offensive. And when you’re going to a battle, it’s basically an offensive issue. Right now we finish with the defensive. That’s part of this campaign, not to be defensive all the time. Israel used to be defensive in the last 20 years. Right now we’re on the other side. And with offensive ammunitions, we and the Americans, we are doing very well. We can continue this campaign much more than the Iranians will have.

PETER ROBINSON: All right, desalination plants.

ZOHAR PALTI: Desalination plants. No doubt that this is an issue.

PETER ROBINSON: They’ve hit one in Bahrain already.

ZOHAR PALTI: As of this morning, they hit one in Bahrain. That is true. And the Gulf states are depending on this issue. The Americans understand it. The Americans planned before — they knew that Iranians are going to hit energy sites. I want to remind you that the Iranians used to launch — on September 14, 2019, as a surprise, they launched accurate missiles against the Saudis’ energy facilities. In two hours they destroyed 50% of the Saudis’ oil production.

PETER ROBINSON: Two hours.

ZOHAR PALTI: Two hours. Right now, the Americans learned the lessons. The Saudis, the Emiratis, the Qataris — there are amazing defense systems that Americans gave to their partners in the region. And so far they’re doing good. Whether sometimes they’re hitting the bad guys — of course — but relatively, for what the Iranians aim, I think that the American technology and the American superiority is amazing.

The Strait of Hormuz and the Drone Threat

PETER ROBINSON: Okay, and you mentioned the Strait of Hormuz. Here’s an item — this just moved this morning as I was pulling together my notes. The Thai flag bulk carrier Maori Nauri was struck by Iranian missiles near the Strait of Hormuz this morning, March 11. The Royal Thai Navy reported the two projectiles struck the hull above the waterline. The Royal Navy of Oman rescued 20 Thai crew members. And of course, we have President Trump saying earlier this week, “We’re putting an end to this threat once and for all.” The Strait of Hormuz is going to remain safe, but there’s almost no traffic moving through the Strait of Hormuz. How do you make it safe when the danger seems to be now from drone attacks?

ZOHAR PALTI: So, first of all, let’s talk about the drones. Who is the expert and suffering in the last almost three years is the brave Ukraine.

PETER ROBINSON: Yes.

ZOHAR PALTI: And I know there are some people that are representing Ukraine over here in the crowd. I think that we should appreciate the suffering that the Ukrainians are passing. And Ukraine developed a very interesting methodology on how to deal with those drones. And it seems to me that some of us will have to learn from them. We, the Americans and the Israelis, we invested less in the drones because mainly the main threat is, of course, the nuclear and the ballistic missiles. And when you’re developing so many advanced systems, always there is priority over here. Yes, but no doubt in this world there will be a lot of implications to the military industry.

I don’t want to get into it. Strait of Hormuz — I like to emphasize the full glass. Last night you took — if I remember correctly the number — US and America, 18 specialist vessels whose mission is to spread mines all over the Strait of Hormuz. You took them down. There is almost no navy. Whether the risk came to zero — no. But over here, there is the fear element, the psychological warfare that nobody can control. That’s why you see all the anxiety right now regarding the energy.

So it seems to me that Americans understand it. This is part of the American Fifth Fleet mission. I assume that in the next few days you will see a change in this issue as well. And I just saw a publication a couple of minutes before that the US Army is recommending to the Iranians not to come near the coastline of Iran, mainly in Bandar Abbas, probably because they understand your question so well and they are prepared for that. And it seems to me that the change will come in the next few hours, few days, because America understands that the Strait of Hormuz needs to be open. And guys, it’s a war — it’s taking some time.

The Ring of Fire: Has Israel Passed the Palti Test?

PETER ROBINSON: We’re on day 12. Zohar, you mentioned a test — I like the Palti test — and the Palti test is: is my family safe? Is my family safe back in Israel? So let me ask you about the so-called ring of fire that existed, that surrounded Israel before October 7th. And let’s just go around the ring of fire briefly, and you tell me whether Israel has yet dealt with each of these links in this ring, whether it yet passes the Palti test. Hamas in Gaza itself — dealt with?

The Young Generation and Israel’s Future

ZOHAR PALTI: In a minute. I will give you an answer in a minute, just remind me. But you touch a very important fact and this is the families factor. What we found out and it seems to me that this way Israel is very similar to America because we are both democratic countries, we share the same value.

What we found out in the last four years is the young generation. And if there is something that I’m very, very optimistic and looking in a very bright to the future is to see that the young generation we thought that those guys beside TikTok and PlayStation and Xbox, they don’t know nothing. And we found out that they are amazing. They passed the COVID and it was tough. And then two and a half years of and when you ask them how are you doing? They usually come and say they have a slogan in Hebrew “all good, all good, don’t bother me. I know how to handle with that.”

And they are right now having thousands of raids in Iran. We have so many women pilots first time that are in the cockpits doing their job. And we are very proud about that. And this is part of the internal struggle in Israel right now because there are some debates, not that they’re here, you are all perfect internally. But we in Israel we have a political debate about how to serve in the army and things like that. And the young generation is really amazing.

The Israeli economy is booming. We are right now on $60,000 per capita. Our economy is if we are not going to have a war in the next decades will reach a trillion dollar. I mean the stock has changed and the high tech companies right now you can see how many American companies are buying them. And that’s during a war. We don’t know how to explain it frankly. I’m telling you, we don’t know how to explain it. Sounds like crazy that how why the stock exchange in Israel is so booming, but this is kind of an answer. Families, future, itech, how to push to the excellency during a time of war and how to see Israel better and better in the near future and to finish the issue of this war and hopefully that after this campaign we’ll do much better. Now back to your question.

The State of Hamas, Syria, and the Houthis

PETER ROBINSON: Hamas dealt with—

ZOHAR PALTI: Kind of. Kind of because as you know, the Gaza Strip is splitting right now. We control 53% and the Palestinians 47%. There is the Trump program over here. Of the 20 something points right now everything was on pause because we all engage with the Iranian issue. No threat from ballistics missiles, rockets and things like that. Hamas in a way controls some of the populated area over there. Sadly the Palestinian prefer the radical still and they want to topple the PA and the Palestinians in the West Bank. We’re still having an issue over there. But let’s say the big conflict is over now, how sort it out? That would take a long time.

PETER ROBINSON: Militias in Syria gone.

ZOHAR PALTI: Listen, I’m a guy that used to deal with counterterrorism for so many years. A day before Bis al-Julani Ashara came, there used to be a bounty of $10 million on his head over here in America. Let’s give it a time. I want to see that this guy is actually delivering what we. Whether there is a glimpse of opportunity over here. Yes, whether. I’m for sure about that. Let’s wait and see a bit.

PETER ROBINSON: The Houthis.

ZOHAR PALTI: Houthis without Iran are not exist. All the technology and everything is coming from Iran. This campaign is part of it. For the time being, the Houthis are not in the game. I anticipate that they will join in the next few hours days. We have—

PETER ROBINSON: They don’t have a ballistic capacity.

ZOHAR PALTI: They have.

PETER ROBINSON: They still do.

ZOHAR PALTI: They still do. We made a lot of damage to them with you guys. Some of the American work, some of the Israeli work. We’re deploying right now a lot of troops in order to protect this issue as well. Whether the game is over with them. No, not yet.

Hezbollah and the Situation in Lebanon

PETER ROBINSON: Hezbollah.

ZOHAR PALTI: Hezbollah. We have outstanding opportunity in Lebanon right now. President of Lebanon and the Prime Minister. This is the best opportunity that we used to have in four decades or five decades. Sadly, we don’t have meaning. The Lebanese don’t have capabilities with the Lebanese army and their chief of staff General Haichel is not exactly on the right side. There is no quarterback from the international community, not from the Europeans and not from the Arab state. In order to elevate Lebanon, we as Israelis, we need to do a bit better.

Hezbollah joined the campaign a couple of days ago to help the Iranians. They are launching right now missiles to Tel Aviv and all to north of Israel. North of Israel til Haifa line is taking a lot of heat compared to Tel Aviv with the ballistic from Iran on the center of Israel. The north of Israel right now even really much more than the center of Israel right now. I’m not so sure that we will not have to go to another big campaign in Lebanon. I hope that we are not. We’ve been stuck in Lebanon for 17 years. I was there. We’re not missing it. But if needed to protect the families, I said we’ll have to do it again.

The Pager Operation: Inside the Mossad’s Most Audacious Strike

PETER ROBINSON: All right, Zohar, the Mossad. On September 17, 2024, thousands of handheld pagers used by Hezbollah exploded. The next day, hundreds of walkie talkies did the same. Hezbollah itself admitted that these explosions killed or wounded some 1500 fighters. How did you guys do that? Just whisper?

ZOHAR PALTI: First of all, I don’t know, I just read in the newspaper, no, friend, there are brilliant women in Mossad. And I’m not emphasizing it was women that came with this idea. A particular lady, 27 years old and we look at her and we said like the Nike slogan “just do it.” Sounds simple. It sounds very, you know. But this is only one operation that you were. I mean, you saw the footage, which was a lot of effect for it.

But to have superiority like the Americans and US have in Lebanon with Hezbollah or in Iran right now you need a lot of intelligence coverage, much more than the papers and this campaign. How to get intelligence cover is more than 20 years. And there’s a lot of operation, a lot of risk, a lot of creative thinking.

And if I’m trying right now to squeeze and to summarize the American technology with Israeli technology, with our pilots, the boys and the girls and the American and Israeli sides, I hear there is no other element in the world that have the ability to deal with our weapon system and our technology. We took down in 24 hours all the air defense of Iran, it sounds crazy.

So be persistent and that this is why we need the Stanford, that all the Ivy Leagues, that MIT, that Harvard, Tel Aviv University, like that will continue to boom. The young generation that I spoke about them yesterday, we have a lot of challenges right now with AI, with Quantum, with all the new stuff that are right now coming to technology and we can’t stay behind. If we want to continue to be good and have pagers, beepers, air superiority and things like that, we need to invest a lot of money in education and mainly in technology and to be very criticized about our performance to become better without to understand where we blew it and to look about how to improve and not to be so satisfied for myself. Be persistent, things like that. We’re not going to be good in the future.

Hacking Tehran’s Traffic Cameras

PETER ROBINSON: Zohar, there’s one more that I just can’t resist. Two items here. One is the television series Tehran. In one episode that aired a few years ago that I watched, the Israeli agent Tamar and her colleagues back in Israel achieved remote control of the traffic lights in Tehran, which enabled them to divert police away from their own vehicles. Fiction. Television. Here’s the Financial Times nine days ago, I’m quoting, “when the highly trained, loyal bodyguards and drivers of senior Iranian officials came to work near Pastor street in Tehran where the Ayatollah was killed in an Israeli attack. The Israelis were watching. Nearly all the traffic cameras in Tehran had been hacked for years, their images encrypted and transmitted to servers in Tel Aviv.” Oh, come on, tell us how you did that one.

ZOHAR PALTI: First of all, I told you that there is miracles in the Middle East. But by the way, this is not something too sophisticated. It’s relatively easy.

The U.S.-Israel Alliance: Navigating Diverging Interests

PETER ROBINSON: Remind me to stay on your side. Zohar, okay, here’s a headline in the Wall Street Journal this very morning. “Trump says the Iran war is nearly won. Israel has other ideas.” And here’s from the lead, hours after Trump told a reporter the military campaign was, “very complete, pretty much close,” Netanyahu reiterated his maximalist goals for the war. “Our aspiration is to enable the Iranian people to cast off the yoke of tyranny.”

Now, as you said yourself a moment ago, we are working together. As far as I can tell, the United States is now working with Israel more closely than we have worked with any other ally since we worked with Britain during the Second World War. Yet we are a sovereign nation and you are a sovereign nation. And no matter how tight the alliance, there are going to be areas where our interests diverge. How do grownups work that out?

ZOHAR PALTI: First of all, we have only one ally and only one friend. And this is the United States of America. And I know it sounds strange, but I still believe, and this is my personal opinion, that bipartisan is above everything. And in a way, we need to improve a bit. This issue from the Israeli side. Without America we can’t manage and we are so proud to be shoulder to shoulder with Americans, with the values, with the beliefs, how we live as a democracy, freedom of speech and the fact that we are friends together.

The Congress is so generous to help us in the last years with platforms. Platform is a nice word to mainly aircraft. We are flying only Americans. We are using only American technology. We never flipped about some and we are not going to flip. And our national security is built on the synergy with Americans. So I don’t think that in the end of the day there will be a daylight between us, even if we will see a bit different.

The president, it seems to me that he know how to speak with Prime Minister Netanyahu. They saw each other in the last year like 7 times if I remember correctly on president and they will sort it out. But it’s fine. What the good guys want to do there is, you know, also the bad guys. And I’m not sure that the Iranian will play the game exactly as the Americans or the Israelis like to see it happening.

And it seems to me that I have other years with Hezbollah in Lebanon that maybe we’ll have to continue this battle. As I said before, not they’d like to see it, but if they will continue to launch missiles, we’ll have to protect our families. And I’m not sure that the Iranian will play the game exactly as everybody thinks, whether it’s the Wall Street Journal or other as you described. Life is a bit more complicated from this editorial or this. Sometimes the bad guys are calling the shots and we’ll have to react. But it seems to me when the president will speak with us, with the states of Israel, we like always will be on the same side with you guys.

What’s in It for America?

PETER ROBINSON: Zohar, let me quote the conservative journalist Matt Walsh. I have some differences with him, but he’s a good guy as far as I’m concerned. Here’s what he posted on X a few days ago. “We’re told this will benefit Israel and I’m sure it will. But Israel is not America. How does it help us? That needs to be explained now.” You’re not running for office in this country, thank God. But would you care to offer an answer?

Israel’s Internal Divisions and the Future

ZOHAR PALTI: No. We have our own problem as Israelis. The last thing that you need a guy from the Middle East to come to give your recommendation as an American. It seems to me that you are doing good without my recommendation.

I can tell you only one thing regarding these issues. Sometimes the Americans have a tendency — and I hear the debates over here and are aware — that you want to be more like in the continent that others do. I used to have many, many hours with Shimon Peres, our late prime minister, when I used to brief him. And he used to say, “Listen, the Americans is a complicated country. They’re doing a lot of mistakes till they’re doing the right thing as Churchill.” And others used to say, “Guys, there is no substitute to the United States of America. You’re the good guys. You’re the beacon.”

People want to come and stand on the line of the immigration in JFK or in Miami or whatever. They don’t like to see it in other superpowers in the world. Everybody wants to see New York or Los Angeles. Now, you can run, you can say, “We don’t want this issue to be,” but that’s your job. And if sometimes you’re fatigued, it’s okay, take a nap, switch batteries, but in the end, you’re saving the world. Otherwise there will be tyrannies all over and people will be dead. This is what America is all over for the rest of the world, whether you like it or whether not.

Now I’m not preaching. We used to do. My parents used to be in the IDF, my mom and my dad. I used to be, of course, with my wife, my children. We know how to do the job. And we’re not asking for the Americans to fight for us. And we are very proud about that. We are in the cockpit. We are in the Navy and we are in the infantry. We don’t have a defense pact with Americans. We are not like other countries in Southeast Asia or something like that. We are taking the goodies. We are taking the technology. We appreciate everything, but we’re doing this job.

As I mentioned before, ’81 we’ve done it alone. 2007, we’ve done it alone. The 12 days campaign, 11 days. We knew how to do it. Right now we are — I’m not trying to compare. You in the United States, you are huge and a superpower. We are tiny, but still we threw right now like 10,000 ammunition on Iran. Our pilots. We have hundreds of raids above Iran as a state. So I think that we are giving our share and we are very proud about that, that we know how to do it.

And the last thing that we want is to jeopardize any Americans. It seems to me — it used to be right now, this is my judgment — it was your interest, the president’s decisions. He’s the one that said America is on the way to help the protesters. When we joined the campaign, all the other things that run right now to spin in the media and things like that, I’m not so sure it’s so accurate. You have a serious commemorative Chief.

Israel’s Political Divisions and the Road Ahead

PETER ROBINSON: Israel itself again. Before October 7th, Israel was a very divided country. Beginning in January 2023, hundreds of thousands of Israelis in the streets protesting the government’s proposal on judicial reforms. In fact, there was a judicial revolution. Judicial revolution. All right, thank you very much. Thousands of IDF reservists, including pilots, announced that they would no longer show up for reserve duty if these reforms — or the revolution — went ahead. Broadly speaking, on one side, secular liberals; broadly speaking, on the other side, the religious parties.

The war comes, October 7th happens, the country unites. But you face elections in October of this very year. How do you hold — you’ve been talking about bravery and patriotism and the kinds of people you can recruit to the Mossad to risk their lives for year after year after year to put in place one program. It’s astonishing. And yet you have to survive as a political entity. What happens in Israel in the coming months, apart from the war itself?

ZOHAR PALTI: That’s a good question. If you ask me, this is the most important question because I used to deal with all the threats in the states of Israel in the last 40 years. And as a civilian right now, I don’t have any formal job. If there is — you’re a Hoover fellow.

PETER ROBINSON: Well, no, you said you don’t have a formal job, so, all right, you are a Hoover fellow.

ZOHAR PALTI: No, formally in the states of Israel. If there is something that bothers me, it is the diversion and the split among the Israeli society. If we are not going to work as a fist and to be united — we know the history of the Jewish people. First temple down, second temple down. If we think that the state of Israel is immune, we’re stupid. We need to work about this relationship. We can, any relationship. And now we are not doing good internally. The split and the diversity between the two sides is something that we concern a lot about. How to fix it, how to glue it, how to deal with it — frankly, I don’t know, but this is something profound.

The Jewish Birth Rate: A Final Question

PETER ROBINSON: Zohar, my last question. Babies. Babies. Country after country, including this one, is experiencing a demographic decline. Birth rates well below the replacement level of 2.1. China, the birth rate is below one child per woman. The European Union, the birth rate has fallen below 1.4 per woman. Here in the United States, the figure is below 1.6.

The birth rate in Israel — let me quote the demographer Nicholas Eberstadt: “The fertility rate of the Jewish population in Israel was” — he’s referring here to figures from 2019 — “was 3.09, above replacement fertility, is also characteristic” — this is important — “of the less observant and even secular strata of the Jewish population in Israel.” Close quote.

You are surrounded by enemies. You just told us that the air raid sirens are going off so often in Israel right now that you don’t want to take a shower because you’ll be caught with your shampoo in your hair when you have to run to the shelter the next time. Why is it that those good Jewish women say right there is where they want to bring children into the world? Explain that one, Zohar.

ZOHAR PALTI: Children is fun now. Love what we call in Hebrew Balagan — mess at home. When you come to a house and everything is neat and you feel empty — it’s part of our, in a way, part of our culture, part of how we — Israel usually we are a very cheerful country, very joy to sit on the beach in Tel Aviv during the Saturday with beer and the children. This is heaven. And it seems to me that this is a part of the Jewish culture — the family, the children, this noise that we have in Shabbat dinners and things like that. So why not? Sounds like good.

PETER ROBINSON: Why not? Zohar Palti, thank you for Uncommon Knowledge, the Hoover Institution and Fox Nation. I’m Peter Robinson.

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