Interviewer: You praise the quality, though, of some of these?
Jack Ma: I would talk about later, right? Those criminals said they can go anywhere but not on [Timo] because using our data would trace where they are, who they are, what’s the address, what the amount. And we’ll deliver this to the police station and are working with them to arrest them. The quality issue is something I want to share with people. It’s not by praising the fake products. I want to say that for so many years, those branded companies you have to be very careful because the fake products, their quality improving is scary. That is the difference between us, because when you find the guys, the thing the people said this is fake and you have to find people — you have to find a third party institution to check if it is a fake or not. We find, sometimes, the quality is better.
And I tell you another thing is even scarier, a lot of — there is a one branded company. He said we are selling fake products, we check everything. It’s nothing wrong. So we said, what is wrong, so we buy the products from his fake shop and deliver to them. This is a fake. You know what I am saying. We buy, shop — buy things from the fake shop of this brand and deliver back. It’s the fake products they say. So it’s a big confusing. This is fighting against the fake products, it’s the war against the greedy, human greediness It’s not easy. You cannot finish it. But you have to continue to fight. And I want to say we put 2000 people, 1 billion RMB every year fighting again that, we can never finish the work within two years. But I’m happy where the people criticize me, criticize us, the most important is that we are happy about the progress we’ve made.
But if people praise me, so you know, when people say, ‘Jack, you are wonderful’, I know I am not wonderful, right? Alibaba is great, we’re not great. We’re just a 17-year old company. But when people say ‘you’re doing nothing’, No, we’re doing a lot of things but you don’t have to argue, you don’t have to debate. You do what you believe.
Interviewer: One of the things you mentioned was using big data on the piracy side, but the other thing that you’re using a lot of that big data to do is provide credit and effectively banking the unbanked. And what’s so fascinating to me and I hope you’ll share it, as we’ve talked about the sesame credit, how you are able to use big data effectively to figure out who deserves credit and who doesn’t in a marketplace where some of these people had no credit history before?
Jack Ma: OK. Well, before we do that, we had a system called teach computers to learn how to anti-fake products, teach the computers learn how to — because we have Alipay, a lot of people try to use all the ways to cheating. So we teach the computer how to do that, the cheating things. So we’ve been doing that for 10 years, until now there is called artificial intelligence, because we’ve been doing that. We are a data company. Eight years ago we said to ourself Alibaba should not be an e-commerce company, we should be a data company, because we have the data from consumers, we have data from the manufacturers, we have data from the logistic companies and transactions. But we think how we can make the data really beneficial to the society.
What China need is that we have a lot of great people, all the small business, they have a very — they’re very credible but we don’t have a credit system for that. So how can we use a credit rating system based on the data we have to giving everybody a sesame rating system? That is so powerful in the past four years, because every individual, every small business, if they have been using our services, we’ve given a rating system. So we’re giving loans. In the past five years we’ve given 5 million business loans. They only borrow $5000. Three minutes, we can decide whether we should give you money, how much we want to give. Within one second, the money will be in account and zero people touch. So we call it three-one-zero. And even today the sesame rating system becomes people dating. The mother-in-law wants to say, ‘Hey, you want to date with my daughter? Show me your rating system of the sesame card?’
So it’s so funny. We go to the — people want to rent a car, people want to rent a bicycle, they will say, ‘Show me your sesame card? Umm, good’, because if they do not pay back, if they do not fulfill, the rating system is going to low down and they can never rent a house. This is what we want to build up the system, that if you sell or buy fake products, the sesame cards will show.
Interviewer: I am going to open up to questions but a final one for me. There’s been a lot of speculation that you’re going to get into the business of Hollywood. Your name has appeared Alibaba Group at the beginning of a couple of big films recently. What is the ambition for Alibaba in the entertainment world?
Jack Ma: The beginning like this several years, every five years we have a review for our strategy. Now our strategy is always look at the 30 years and 10 years. Every strategic decisions we make, we have to ask one question: Does this decision we make solve. society problem? Because we believe the bigger social problem you solve, the more successful you are. So if we do — this cannot solve any social problems, we don’t do it.