Pediatrician Dr. Bill Sears’ Interview on Lila Rose Show (Transcript)

BILL SEARS: Thank you, Lila. It’s my honor to be here.

Remembering Martha Sears

LILA ROSE: We have to have you back. You’re a huge favorite with thousands and thousands and over the years, millions of people who have been benefited by your work. You have over 40 books. You have been in practice now for decades. Your sons are in practice now and your lovely wife, Martha, I want to just start with her because I was very blessed to get to attend her funeral. Thank you so much for allowing me to attend. The world lost an incredibly beautiful soul, but heaven gained one.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yes.

LILA ROSE: And I just want to say I’m so sorry for your loss and thank you for the legacy of Martha because she has been a huge inspiration to countless mothers.

DR. BILL SEARS: Thank you. Lila, you mentioned the magic word legacy. Because what I’m feeling right now as you’re talking is just about every word that will come from my mouth today is what I learned from Martha. She left a legacy in my brain that I want to convey to others.

LILA ROSE: She and you have had eight children together and you wrote over 40 books.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yes.

LILA ROSE: Today on the show, we’re going to talk about one in particular, the discipline book, which is just an incredible wealth of knowledge. As a young mother myself, I have benefited. And I do want to say one more thing on Martha because this is part of her body of work with you. But after her passing just a few weeks ago, there have been thousands of mothers who have reached out to your family. What are some of the things that they’ve been saying?

DR. BILL SEARS: Well, again, over thousands of cards and emails and all that came in. And they all had, when she was sick, they all had two messages: “We’re praying for Martha. We’re here for you, Bill.”

After she went to heaven, the messages were, “Thank you, Martha, for validating my mother’s intuition. You helped me get on track when the other books were telling me otherwise. You validated my intuition and my children are so much better because I followed your advice.” And that’s from so many people. That’s the underlying message. Thank you. Thank you for validating my intuition.

LILA ROSE: Beautiful. There was a family I met at the funeral. Afterwards, we were chatting. The mother had a few sons, and she was saying to me she didn’t even know Martha well personally, but she was saying that she knew Martha because of Martha’s work and that Martha had helped her raise her sons.

And one of the sons was there, close bond with mom and adult son. He has his own children. His wife was saying, “Martha helps me love.” They have two children and counting. “Helps me love my children.”

So today we’re going to get into this really beautiful, very natural philosophy that you and Martha have on child rearing, particularly with regard to discipline. And we’re going to talk about some of the extremes that are out there on parenting that point people, quite frankly, the wrong direction. Let’s start with the why. Why did you write this book on discipline with Martha?

The Origin of The Discipline Book

DR. BILL SEARS: Well, the discipline book is, as you mentioned, it’s actually one of our favorite books for one reason. It was written on the job, right? So we kept having children. Children number one, number two, they just kept popping out, shall we say? And after eight children, 25 years parenting eight children, we had kept a lot of notes about discipline.

We’d do something, it worked, we’d write it down. We’d do something that didn’t work, we’d write it down. And then I used my office as a laboratory. You know, kids who come in, who were disciplined beautifully, they gave eye contact, they obeyed their mom. They seemed happy, they seemed to feel right. And I would ask the mom, “Tell me what you’re doing.” And I would write that down. It’s over 25 years.

So the discipline book, Lila, is 300 pages of stories of what we’ve learned that works for most families most of the time. And that’s why we decided to put it all into a book. And I’d say there’s probably 300 tips there. Three or 400 tips and stories, because parents will remember stories, you know. And so it’s kind of a fun read, too. We tell about horror mistakes and how we corrected them.

Because I tell parents, don’t go back. Don’t say, “I should have, would have.” Kids are resilient. Kids are resilient. You can always make up for things. And one other thing, too. I tell it. We say this in the book. Don’t dwell on past memories that were negative. “I should have done this with my child.” No, because part of the brain, there’s a happy center and a sad center. The part of the brain that files negative memories is very unreliable, where the part of the brain that files good memories is very reliable. So don’t go back. Go forward.

LILA ROSE: I love that. And it’s hopeful because I’m sure people listening already, especially the parents, are thinking, “I’ve already made mistakes.” And this is a place to no judgment zone, a place for encouragement and support. Because it’s never too late to love your children, even if they’re adults. And if you haven’t had kids yet, this is great information.

DR. BILL SEARS: What you just said was, parents say, “Oh, I’m tired. When will my life get back to normal?” I said, “This is your normal life. When can I stop disciplining my child?” You’re always going to be disciplining your child at all ages.

What Is Discipline?

LILA ROSE: Let’s start with the philosophical principles. Even the word discipline today is a little controversial because people say there’s some people who take a more authoritarian approach about child rearing. Others who say let the child kind of do their own thing, like guide them gently. Gentle parenting is another popular term. What do we mean when we say discipline? And how do you and Martha approach this philosophically at a foundational level for how to parent children?

DR. BILL SEARS: Sure. Well, discipline simply comes from the Latin word to teach. Discipline, in a nutshell, Lila, is teaching your children the tools to succeed in life. Teaching. That’s what parenting is, teaching. It’s tools. Do you give your child a toolbox to carry the rest of their life? Think this, not that, do this, not that. Think twice before you do something. You know, think before you act. You want a sensitive child, a caring child, a child who respects authority. And so that’s what discipline is.

This is why one of our favorite books is discipline. Because you ask about different styles. What is in the discipline book is the what works, what works period. But see, to sell books, people have to come up with different things. And I remember one of those was the baby training. Baby training is great. It’s how you train a pet. It’s great for pets, not for babies.

So I’ll tell you a story. And I learned from my practice. So I had a very nice couple come in. I looked after the baby from birth on. They came in, baby was 3 months of age and for the checkup and father says, “Doctor, he’s such a good baby. He sleeps through the night. He feeds on schedule, he doesn’t cry. He’s such a good baby.” Okay, I didn’t say anything.

And so I examined the baby. The baby has problems. We call in medicine apathetic. There was no affecting, didn’t look me in the eye. He was sad. He hadn’t gained much weight over the last month. It’s called thriving. He wasn’t thriving.

So I asked mom, said, “Mom, how do you feel about this?” And she started crying. She started crying. They were raising their baby on a book, some baby training book, like you train them like that. And she said to me, “Dr. Bill, that never felt right in my heart. It never felt right.” And I said yes, because it’s not right. It’s not right. And then I talked about mother’s intuition.

The Power of Mother’s Intuition

See, when a mother births a baby, which as a simple male, I think is the greatest, greatest miracle on earth, watching a beautiful baby coming into the world. Now think about it. The creator of one of the most beautiful creations a baby wants that baby to grow up right? Right acting, right thinking right being happy. So the creator would naturally put into mother’s brain what we call mother’s intuition or mommy brain, whichever you want to call it.

And in that mommy brain are two hormones, prolactin and oxytocin. These are hormones which are like discipline is like an orchestra. It’s harmony between mother and baby and father and baby. A harmony. Those hormones are like an orchestra director telling mom what to do, do this, not that. Baby cries. You do what you think. Nobody can tell you how long to let a baby cry. Nobody else but mom and dad.

So your intuition will tell you when to pick up your baby, when not to, when to feed, when not to, when to hold your baby, when not to. See. So mother’s intuition is the key to discipline. And those who follow it are almost always on the right track. And that story was an incident where mother followed someone else’s thought instead of her own intuition and she got back on track. And baby start gaining weight, start looking at things and see babies are resilient. That’s a big word. Babies are resilient. They will bounce back like this baby did in a couple months, back to normal.

Building Confidence in Mothers

LILA ROSE: What would you say to mothers who feel that? Or I should say they’re worried about their intuition. Yeah, they’re worried about being able to trust themselves to the degree that maybe you’re recommending. And maybe it’s because they weren’t mothered in the way that is best for them. Maybe because they have just some sort of self esteem or self confidence issues. Maybe it’s because of the relationship they have with the father. There could be they’re a single mom even there could be all these reasons for a lack of confidence that a mother may have. What advice would you give to that mother?

DR. BILL SEARS: Well, you described my mother in a way, single mom. My dad took off. I was a month of age. We were what we would call now underprivileged, financially, very poor, but spiritually rich. And my mom was smart enough to surround me with quality male mentors.

And so if you are a mother who need some support on are you doing the right thing or a single mom? Surround yourself with other moms. Get into a group. There are mothers groups all over and learn from them. Learn from them because your intuition’s there.

And I would say believe in yourself. Just believe in yourself. Tell yourself what I have the greatest degree in the world. M O M. You know, take pride and you have done the greatest job in the world growing and birthing a little human being inside of you. Wow. And that little baby, what you put into his brain now, you’re going to affect that baby for the next 80, 90 years. There’s no prescription drug for that. It’s only what mom can give. See. So I kind of lift up a mom when they’re down. And other moms, there are many support resources for that.

The Foundation of Early Discipline

LILA ROSE: What does discipline look like when that child is very young? In the first year of life with regard to food, with regard to sleep? What do you recommend as core principles for especially moms, but for parents?

DR. BILL SEARS: The first year is that year of dependency of the child. That’s when mommy brain is sort of the highest. One of the first things I recommend to mothers is to take care of yourself. Take care of yourself.

I’ve told you the story before. One time when Martha told me, “Oh, I don’t have time to take a shower. My baby needs me so much.” In other words, her mommy brain was exhausted. And I said, “Honey,” I put a big sign up on the bathroom mirror: “What our baby needs most is a happy, rested mother.” So I took over father nursing and I took over just nestling and all. So that’s perfect. Take care of yourself. A baby needs a happy, rested mom. So if you’re burning out, get help. Grandmothers, grandfathers, friends, get advice from a mother you know that you really respect. Get some advice. All right, so be healthy yourself.

Nutrition and Brain Development

Secondly, you mentioned feed your children well. See, the brain grows the fastest during that first year or two, just when discipline sometimes is the toughest. The brain is the number one organ that’s most sensitive to nutrition. You put junk food into a child’s brain, you get junk behavior. Same way with mothers during pregnancy. They need to eat well.

Now, something new. I always like to bring out something new. This was discovered a few years ago. Why mothers get depressed? A lot of it’s what’s called omega-3 insufficiency. Omega-3s called DHA are the smartest fat in the brain. When the baby’s brain grows the fastest in that last trimester of pregnancy, the baby literally sucks the DHA out of mom. So the baby gets their DHA, but mom doesn’t. So mommy’s brain is insufficient, so she gets depressed.

So maternal nutrition during pregnancy, especially the last three months, the first three months afterwards, is extremely important. And our Healthy Pregnancy book, one of the largest chapters is on maternal nutrition in our healthy pregnancy book. That’s just an example there. And then finally, one other. It’s called shaping young tastes first solid foods. Not rice cereal, not junk.

LILA ROSE: I remember you talking about that. It was really good. And the salmon, the avocado.

DR. BILL SEARS: Avocado, yeah. Avocado at 6 months, salmon at 7 months. There are 10 nutrients in salmon that are good for the brain. See, if a child doesn’t have a healthy brain, they’re not going to behave.

High-Touch Parenting

LILA ROSE: Do you think for that first year of life, along with the food and the mother’s self care in terms of the sleeping and just the baby feeling bonded? Because I think about the tendency to put kids in daycare because the mom’s working or put the child just in the bassinet for a long time or put the child in the crib, let the child cry itself to sleep.

DR. BILL SEARS: Children need high-touch parenting. Wear your baby a lot in carriers. You hire a daycare provider in your home. I want you to wear my baby three hours a day and explain why this is all in our books about the more you wear them, the happier and more disciplined they are. But you explain to the caregiver. And when you’re interviewing caregivers, one of the first questions we would ask: “Tell me, Susie, what would you do? Just reflex by reflex when Matthew cries, what would you do?” “Well, I would pick him up and help him and hold him.” “Good, you’re hired.”

The Father’s Role in Discipline

LILA ROSE: What would you say is the role of a father in the parenting dynamic, especially for these young children? We’re kind of focusing in this interview largely on years zero to five, although we’re going to maybe touch on beyond five. So hang around even if you’re past the zero to five years, if you’re parents listening. But you know, you’re talking about the mother’s intuition. You have a whole chapter in your book called “Fathers as Disciplinarians.” What is that dynamic that you recommend between mother and father with regard to parenting and how does it also take into account for different kinds of personalities? Because some fathers have, you know, don’t have the typical, maybe stereotypical male macho personality, depending what it is, versus mother being super nurturing.

DR. BILL SEARS: You just mentioned the word macho. Okay, the macho dad can learn sensitivity. See, so even the macho dad can do that. So I will tell you the story of my own growth from making mistakes to growing to a good dad.

First two children, Bob and Jim, you’ve met them. Now, Dr. Jim and Dr. Bob, they were rather easy babies. And Martha was so good at discipline. I thought, “I’ll get involved when they’re old enough to throw a football. I’ll get involved when they’re old enough for sports.” Big mistake.

One day, Martha sat me down and I was very involved in my career then. I was still an intern and resident. I was just finishing my residency at the Hospital for Sick Children and was offered a big job there at the world’s largest hospital. Martha sits me down and looks at me and you know, men, when a woman looks at you with what I call “the look,” you know, you just want to shut your mouth and listen and just say, “Yes, dear,” to whatever she says.

She looks at me and she says, “Bill.” Now I’ve learned when she calls me honey, it’s just a wish. When she calls me Bill it’s serious. So she says, “Bill, you are married to medicine. You’re married to medicine.” And those three words, Lila, went over my brain like a wave. She was right. I put my career before my family. I didn’t realize that, but it hit me so much that I turned down a job at the hospital. I wanted to be a small town doc. I just wanted to practice simple pediatrics.

So I realized that I had to make a shift. And that shift was, “Martha, you first, me second. You first, me second.” And that philosophy carried through for the next 50 years of our marriage. You know, “You first, me second.” But those three words, “married to medicine” was what caused me to change.

Learning to Know Your Child

And then I realized I didn’t know my children as well. And that’s the key to discipline. Get to know your child. Get to know your child. You know, carry them a lot, be with them a lot. And I started doing that, and they’d fall asleep on my chest. And I do father nursing. We’ve talked about that before. And I’d hum, “Go to sleep, go to sleep, go to sleep, my little baby.”

And fathers can actually do that sometimes as well, if not better than moms, because babies respond to the deep male voice and the humming, the vibration of your chest. Babies hear with the skull bones vibrating too. So I could father nurse. I couldn’t breastfeed, but I could father nurse. Mother’s nurse, father’s nurse. I could father nurse. So it was like, wow.

And then we kept having babies. Then number two, number three, then number six, Matthew. He really changed my fathering. He was going to be our last baby because we kept saying that, “Well, let’s have one, let’s have more.” So Matthew, number six. So I thought, okay, he’s going to be our last. I really want to give him my best.

So I moved my office into our home, into our garage. I renovated the garage into an office. The teenagers would call it “Dr. Bill’s Garage and Body Shop.” And I’d go in between patients and see Matt and I’d hold him a lot and I would be finished around 5 o’clock and I go in the door and there’s Matthew in the living room and he would crawl, when he’d see me come in, he would crawl over to the door where the baby carrier, the baby sling was hanging.

LILA ROSE: Wow.

DR. BILL SEARS: And he would point up to that because in his mind, “Daddy comes home, puts me in the carrier and we take a walk together and he sings to me. He’s goofy, he does funny things and we’re together.” That’s in his mind.

LILA ROSE: So sweet.

Complementary Parenting Styles

DR. BILL SEARS: And so that is father discipline, you know, and it’s different than mommy. Mommy brain, daddy brain. And it’s different for a reason. See, I think God put, I think male and female is the greatest of God’s creation. But they blend together. See, they blend like for example, taking a child to a playground. Mommies are protectors. When the two-year-old starts to climb on the monkey bars, Mommy will say, “Be careful, honey.” Daddy will say, “Climb higher.” Mommy’s a protector, Dad’s an encourager. They blend. They’re both right.

So that’s just my personal story of learning how to be disciplined. And I was never happier because I was doing what was right.

Connection as the Foundation

LILA ROSE: A big principle that you’re speaking to, which you talk about in your book as well, is this idea of connection.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yeah.

LILA ROSE: Discipline from a foundation of connection or attachment. And discipline, I think sounds like a negative word. Like you’re punishing, you’re prodding, pushing, pulling the kid into a certain direction. But it’s really about, like you said, getting to know the child, loving the child, nurturing the child, building connection with the child. Why is attachment and connection so essential for growing a healthy child?

Understanding Your Child’s Mind

DR. BILL SEARS: Right. Because what you mentioned, attachment and connection, it helps you get behind the eyes of the child. See, discipline is getting into the mind of your child. I’m going to tell you a couple examples now of what that means.

I remember one time, two year old Lauren, she opened the refrigerator door and pulled out a big bowl of nuts and threw them all over the floor. Just threw them all over the floor. And I’m standing there as a daddy and I’m ready to pick her up kindly but firmly take her to a room and talk with her. But I learned, Bill, think before you act with discipline. I said, take a deep breath, wait a few seconds.

And I watched Martha. See, Lauren had had what we call temper tantrums. We called them hissy fits. Hissy fits, temper tantrum. She lost her mind. She was throwing things all over. Martha gets down on the at her level, eye level, eye to eye, speaks caringly and softly and talks to Lauren and gives her a little hug and say, “Now let’s pick up all the nuts together and put them back where they belong and put them back in the fridge.”

And I’m watching this, said, “Wow.” Said, “Honey, all right,” because I’m still learning. All right. I said, “How did you know what to do?” She said, “I got behind the eyes and into the mind of my daughter and thought, if I were Lauren, how would I want my mother to react? If I were Lauren, how would I want my mother to react?” And I did.

So see? So she disciplined to her, discipline is getting to the mind of your child and thinking, okay, if I were my child, how would my child want me to react? In a way that helped her change her mind and get her on the right track. So that’s the story and then another one with Matt.

He was a very hyper focused child. He could, when he was into something, he wanted to finish it. He really liked to get into play and look at puzzles and all. So I remember one time it was time to go, we had an appointment or something. So Martha picks him up and takes him either to bed or to appointment and he starts flailing and getting very angry and everything.

And Martha and I are talking about this. We say, “Okay, let’s try something else next time.” It was time to go to bed or time for appointment. We went over to Matt and we said, “Okay, Matt, say bye bye to the toys, bye bye to the trucks, bye bye to the cars, bye bye to Teddy Bear, hug teddy bear, night night to teddy Bear.” Give him some time to come out of his focus into something. Say bye bye, take time and then he would willingly come off to bed.

See, but we had to first get into his mind and figure out what, what can we do, what can we change that will help his mind change so that he will mind us. See, that’s getting in his mind to help him mind us. So that’s another tip to discipline.

Leading Without Demanding Blind Obedience

LILA ROSE: Both of those examples which are very beautiful and profound. There’s an underlying principle there, of course of attachment connection, but also of leading the child without expecting blind and immediate obedience. And I think that’s a, maybe a current debate of sorts, but certainly an ongoing question for a lot of parents today is they want their child to obey and listen to them, and obviously if it’s an emergency, they’re walking into a street, come back, stop right now, but certainly with day to day things, we got to go or eat your food or it’s time for bed or whatever it is.

And it sounds like what you’re saying, well, correct me if I’m wrong, that perhaps our expectations as parents of the speed at which the immediacy at which a child obeys, depending on the task, depending on the context, might be a grown up expectation that we have. So how would you, what is your view then on how to know how to have the right expectations for very young children?

Understanding Developmental Stages

DR. BILL SEARS: That’s a good question. The right expectations. See, children go through stages. Stages. The first year is strictly dependence. They’re depending on you to feed them, to care for them, to love them, to hold them. Dependence from one to two is a tough time. Independence. “I do it myself, I do it myself, I do it myself,” you know.

And then the next stage is interdependence. We call it from two on, meaning that you do it and you blend with mom and dad to help you. It’s interdependent on each other, see. So the child will want to do things but needs the guidance of the parents.

For example, kids like to grab things in that independent stage and say you’re at dinner, dinner time, and they grab a knife from your plate or they grab a fork. “No, Lila,” Say you, “Lila, you can’t play with the fork or the knife, but you can play with the spoon.” So it’s called distract and substitute quickly to get their mind on. They want to grab something so quickly ungrab what’s dangerous for them. They could poke themselves.

And kids don’t think. The babies. Toddlers don’t think that way. “I could hurt myself.” They need the parent mind to do that. And that’s just an example. “You can’t play with this, but you can play with that.”

And I learned that in my office, too. I would see when you go a pediatrician’s office, you’ve been there, lots of things to grab. You know, my toys, okay, My doctor toys. And a child’s natural instinct is to. That’s how they learn. They want to pick up things and look at them explore. And so I would purposely put toddler toys in my office, like a teddy bear with a stethoscope, so they could take the stethoscope off the teddy bear and play with it. That was theirs.

See? Because I had to respect the fact that this was normal toddler behavior. When you walk into a room and you see new things, you want to explore them. So give them new things to explore. But you’re in charge. You’re in charge of what they explore. That’s not control, it’s being in charge. I can be in charge of what they explore, and that’s discipline.

LILA ROSE: When they hit the age of that defiance age, and that’s usually starting after one. Right.

DR. BILL SEARS: And.

Discipline Tips for Ages Two Through Five

LILA ROSE: And you are creating, you mentioned deflect and distract or distract and substitute. Excuse me, Distract and substitute. And then you mentioned, understanding the child and the way they’re wired to kind of fill in other opportunities for them or slow them down for prepare for bedtime ritual. These are kind of ideas for how to work with your child to achieve not just the behavior, but to teach them about how to live.

You know, it’s not just like you want a behavior to make your life easy. You want to help the child grow and live. I want to ask you about that stage maybe, past two. So they’re not like a terrible two tantrums per se. They might still have the tantrum occasionally, but they are also still learning boundaries. They’re developing interests. They’re kind of having a whole world of experiences. What are the principles you would recommend for, the top discipline tips you would recommend for the child? Two plus, maybe three, four, five, even going into six for those Critical years.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yeah, for those critical years. And see the. And I’m glad you mentioned the critical years. A child’s brain grows the fastest in the first five years. Ninety percent a child’s brain first five years. So remember that why discipline is most important in those early years. Discipline is most important in those early years. Any age, all ages. But mostly when the child’s brain, you want them to file in their brain, do this, not that, think this, not that, say this, not that, so you’re all those discipline things.

For example, we start around five years of age when you have a lot of children. The house is a mess. Okay, that’s great. And we thought, okay, we might as well start teaching them. And I would yell out, “Okay, it’s tidy time. It’s tidy time.” Tidy time meant they all go to their rooms and they share rooms and they work and tidy up their rooms and put on then. And then we go out and play. “Hey, it’s tidy time.” See? And so they imprinted in their mind that dad, dad taught them tidy time. It’s an expectation ahead of them. Right, Siblings. All right. This is the value of a large family. Lila, I’m so glad you have three children.

LILA ROSE: We hope to have more. We hope to have many more.

Teaching Through Sibling Care and Modeling

DR. BILL SEARS: Okay. I hope you do. See, older children learn discipline by how they’re taught to treat their siblings. You teach a five year old to help take care of a three year old. A three year old take care of a one year old. Let’s say the three year old, they’re always scraping themselves. Band aids. Band aids everywhere. Okay. They’re putting a little band aid on a scrape.

So say your three year old scrapes his arm and it’s not bleeding, but almost. It’s kind of where you get the five year old to help you put the band aid on it. Okay. So “Peter, would you go get a band aid from mommy? And let’s help. Help me put it on Leo’s little ouchie. Ouchy. Leo has an ouchie. Let’s help the ouchy.” See, so you teach them that. And it’s interesting. They like that. Usually, maybe not the first time, but it makes them feel important. It’s called sensitivity.

Sensitivity is probably the part of discipline, Lila, that’s so misunderstood. And I see that in my office, parents will bring in, “Oh, my daughter’s been told at school she’s too sensitive. She’s too sensitive.” The world needs more sensitive children. Yeah. And so large families, the olders learn how to take care of the youngers, for example, Dr. Bob, who’s been on your show.

When we had our fiftieth anniversary, we asked our children to write down their memories of what they remember most of their mom and I as parents, as how we loved each other. And we put a big plaque on our wall that you’ll have to look when you come over. And what they remembered a lot, and this is important for parents of a lot of children, they remembered how Martha and I took care of each other. We modeled for them, caring for one another.

And I’ll tell you a story about what Bob wrote. One time he said, Dr. Bobby said, “I remember mostly how no matter how hectic our house was,” and it was with eight children, “you and mom always found time for one another. And one night a week was your dinner date, your dinner date. No kids allowed.” They were playing in the other room. Mom and dad would go to the front of the fireplace with our fondue pot. And that was our time together. And the kids were kind of around, but the older kids were in charge of the younger, respecting mom and Dad’s time together.

Bob still remembers that fifty years ago, about forty years ago. And so modeling things, scenes like that, those stay in your children’s mind for a long time if they see parents angry at each other. If you’re going to be angry at each other, try not to be around your children when you’re angry, okay? Because kids think of your baby’s, your child’s mind as a sponge, a little sponge. That little sponge mind is watching everything you do and making a judgment. Is this right or wrong? Good? Bad? How do I feel? Little sponge mind?

Parenting the Sensitive Child

LILA ROSE: The comment you made a moment ago, which is just. It’s all very beautiful. It’s all very wonderful examples that we just need to sit with and let them imprint on us. You made this comment about sensitivity is a part of discipline that’s so misunderstood, and we need more sensitive children. And so what would you recommend for parenting, specifically sensitive children?

And I think about children that everything’s a big deal. They have trouble maybe moderating their own emotions. They have intensity. Maybe they get very upset about things. And, you need to still, like, direct their behavior and have them listen and do, generally speaking, what, you know, you’ve got with the family, meal times and bedtimes and activities and even started to teach them school, doing more direct formal education. What do you recommend for children for how to discipline, how to parent, especially a sensitive young child.

Celebrating Sensitivity in Children

DR. BILL SEARS: Sensitive child. I see this among young teenagers, mostly girls, because I think women are hormonally more sensitive, which is good. I remember a mom brings her child in for some counseling. She says she keeps being told by teachers that she’s too sensitive.

So I sat down with the child and talked to her about what sensitivity means. I said, “Let’s call her Susie. Susie, first of all, celebrate your sensitivity. I want you to repeat what I just said.”

“Okay, Dr. Bill, I will celebrate my sensitivity.”

Then I had to explain what that means. See, sensitivity means you care. You care for someone. You care if somebody is being hurt. You care if somebody is being wronged. Instead of right, you hurt. You’re sensitive, you care. Good. Celebrate that.

Now what that means though. She said, “Well, give me an example of why you…” “Well, I wasn’t invited to a party and most of my friends were.”

I said, “Okay, now first of all, the friend who didn’t invite you to the party is not worth wasting your mental energy on. Cross it, okay? Or if it would make you feel better, when you have a party, you invite that friend because the friend will say, ‘Maybe I should have invited her.’ So you can handle that.”

But for sensitive ladies especially, I said, “Susie, you are likely to have fewer friends, but deeper friends. You are likely to have deeper relationships because you’re sensitive.” So I took a negative and turned it into a positive. And she got it and the mom got it. See? So celebrate your sensitivity.

But I do find that sensitive children need more care. For example, another example: one of our grandchildren, he’s five years old, he’s very sensitive. And I noticed as I was thinking so much about how can I help his behavior? How can I help his behavior?

So I took him to the playground one day and a two or three year old, about three years old, falls down and hurts himself. And he was the first one over to comfort this child. “How can I help you? How can I put some sand on it? How can I help you?” And I looked up, wow, sensitivity. I need to focus on his good qualities. I need to celebrate his sensitivity and quit being worried about some of the other behaviors.

So sometimes sensitivity is, Lila, a great gift if it’s channeled properly.

Discipline Tools: Spanking, Timeouts, and Tone of Voice

LILA ROSE: What is your take on some of these nuts and bolts tools of discipline, whether it’s for the sensitive child or not, that include things like timeouts or spanking? Spanking is something we’ve discussed a little bit on the show before. There’s still some people today who think, “Yeah, spanking, I was spanked as a kid, no problem. I was a naughty kid. I needed it.” Usually, sometimes I hear this from some dads who say, “I got the spanks and I’m good for it.”

And then I hear other people say, “No, it was very traumatic for me.” And then of course, there’s just the tone of voice, using a stern tone: “Don’t do that” versus “Okay, we’re going to talk about why we don’t do that.” I remember you shared the example of your daughter throwing the nuts on the ground. “Don’t throw the nuts on the ground” versus “Okay, we’re going to pick these up now together” – two different approaches, right? What is your take on spanking, timeouts and tone of voice?

DR. BILL SEARS: Okay, spanking, timeout and tone of voice. I was spanked as a child.

LILA ROSE: By your mother?

DR. BILL SEARS: By my grandfather. Now, I don’t think I have any long term effects from it, but I have a memory I wish I didn’t have. I have a memory. I’m sitting in my bedroom. I must have had jerky behavior or something or did something. And I remember sitting in my bedroom looking out the window at my grandfather going out and cutting off a willow branch from the tree and walking toward my bedroom with that little willow branch to spank me.

LILA ROSE: How old were you?

DR. BILL SEARS: I was probably about five, maybe five to seven in that age. Now, I don’t want to have that memory, but it’s there. It’s there. I have good memories of my grandfather, but for some reason that memory sort of overshadows some of my good memories.

So spanking is on my list – a big no for two reasons. It leaves memories in your child that you don’t want to have. But also there are better alternatives. Much better that we talked about.

The Power of Tone and Personalization

All right, now, so you mentioned tone of voice. That’s another alternative. Say tone of voice. Let’s say one of your kids picks up something they shouldn’t. You could yell, “No, no, no, no.” Or you could get down, eye level, eye to eye, firmly: “Not for Matthew, not for Leo.” Much better than “No, not for Leo.” You personalize it, see? “Not for Leo. You can’t pick that up because you might hurt yourself, but you can do this.” See?

So the “no” is personalize it. “Not for Billy, not for Susie.” All right? And they tend to understand that more if you put their name to it. Personalize it. And then tone of voice. I think moms are better than dads most of the time at this, but…

LILA ROSE: I don’t know about that, Doctor. Not to interrupt, but moms, we can get it.

DR. BILL SEARS: But you know, just… it’s more eye to eye contact, but you speak in a tone of voice that your child learns. “Mom means business. I’m not going to do that again.” See, but you’re not… it’s on the verge of anger, but it’s not anger and a tone of voice that resonates that, you know, “Mom is talking to me like this because she loves me. Mom is talking to me like this because she loves me. And I don’t want to do that again because she’s right,” see?

So tone of voice is very important and you’ll learn that. And it’s just the alternatives to spanking. Timeout. It’s a good one.

LILA ROSE: You recommend timeout?

Effective Timeout Strategies

DR. BILL SEARS: Yeah. In other words, but here’s how we did timeout. Erin was nine years old, and she’s been really sassy to her mother. And as the father of the family, I don’t permit any of the children being sassy to the mother or grandma, anybody.

So I went and sat next to her, looked her in the eye, eye to eye, eye to eye. “Erin, I will not permit you talking to the woman I love like that.” I got points from Martha and from Erin. “I will not stand for you talking to the woman I love like that.”

LILA ROSE: See, that’s good.

DR. BILL SEARS: And then “Go to your room and I’ll walk up there with you. You’ll go to your room or go into the living room, go into the other room. And I want you to think about that. Your mother loves you. You’re a beautiful child. We all love you. Think about that. And then think about coming back and apologizing to Mom. Think about what you’re going to say.” That’s it.

Timeout is just kind of… we all need timeout sometimes, but timeout gives her a little bit of a thought. “Oh, maybe dad was right. Maybe I was a jerk or something like that.” But I put in there that “you’re a beautiful child, you’re good,” all that. So she doesn’t think bad of herself. She just made a mistake.

And so I always tell our children, people are more likely to remember how you corrected the mistake than the mistake itself. So your mother’s probably going to remember how you came back and gave her a hug. “Sorry, Mommy. Sorry, Mommy.” She’ll remember that.

Timeouts for Younger Children

LILA ROSE: I love that. That’s such a beautiful example. And so useful for people listening, whether they’re parents or pre-parents, I like to call them. They’re not there yet, but they hope one day to be. Zooming back a tiny bit back to timeouts and another demographic: younger kids in timeouts.

So you’re talking about a nine year old being sassy. What about that two, three, four year old? Let’s maybe the younger child, especially maybe the two, three year old who won’t stay in timeout, they’re acting up, they’re not listening and maybe they’re not being… they’re kind of at a danger to themselves to some degree or to other kids. Maybe they’re fighting or they’re doing something that is not in control, right? What do you do to train them or to teach them?

DR. BILL SEARS: You mentioned train. That’s exactly what you’re doing – train. And let’s say you have two kids, two four year olds, a neighbor and your child and they’re fighting over a toy. You come in, here’s a rule: “Johnny, you get the toy for three minutes and then Billy, you get the toy for three minutes.”

So you give them, here’s the rules. “You play with the toy and then you give it to Jimmy.” And I make sure they give it. Say, “Okay, time for Jimmy to get the toy, to hand it to him and then he’ll hand it back to you.” See, discipline sticks in, Lila, if you give them something to do, to remember.

Now, I could have just grabbed the toy and took it away, but sometimes you have to do that. That would be my next thing. If they can’t… “Well, if you can’t play right with it, we’ll put the toy away.” But I wanted them to figure out a way that they could share it or a way they could play.

I say, I remember one time we had that happening. I’d say, “Hey guys, we have a new train set. Why don’t both of you come over and let’s play with the train set together?” “Yeah, yeah.” Something new. See, so it’s you as a parent are in charge of changing the situation so that they can change their mind rather than you just telling them what to do. You want them to figure out what they would be better off doing? “Well, I think I’d be better off playing with the train than them grabbing the toy and taking it.” Something like that, you know.

When to Use Timeouts vs. Other Approaches

LILA ROSE: What would you say are the appropriate kinds of behavior that would warrant a timeout to be an effective response? Because I’ve noticed that with young, very young children, they’re not in full control. They don’t have malicious motivations. They’re innocent. I mean, before the age of reason, at seven, they’re not scheming bad things.

DR. BILL SEARS: They’re impulsive.

LILA ROSE: They’re impulsive. They’re figuring out boundaries, they’re exploring, they have… maybe they’re hungry, they’re tired, they’re seeking connection. I mean there’s a whole world in the child behind the child’s eyes, as you were speaking about so beautifully earlier. What would you say are some good pointers for how to discern whether a timeout is the right solution to a child acting up or poor behavior versus something else like a hug even?

DR. BILL SEARS: Yeah, I’d say if your first line of discipline isn’t working, then sometimes you just have to pick the child up and take them to their room and say, “You let me know when you can start thinking happily. Let me know when you’re ready to apologize and I’ll come up and get you.” Sometimes you just have to, no matter what.

Just about two weeks ago, actually, I had to discipline our five year old grandson. He likes to take things apart. So we had a… I bought him a thing to jump on. Thing to jump on. But it has a nice soft rubber railing across the top that you put your hands on, you jump on. And he’s starting to pick it off. He’s starting to pick it off.

So I tried psychology first, and first, in fact, sometimes men, sometimes daddies have to step in when mommy psychology isn’t working. Moms tend to be okay…

LILA ROSE: Sometimes I feel like my husband is so good at that.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yeah. Yes. That’s the way we’re put. And so I see even after I told him what to do and why, I said, “Because when that… those sponges up there, it don’t bother your hands, you can hold on.” But he continued to pull it off.

So I went over, I said, “Johnny, okay, I’m sorry but I’m going to take this, your favorite toy away. I’m going to put it away for a few weeks.” And so he learns, “Okay, I didn’t obey. I lose my toy.” That’s it. That’s it. Sometimes you just have to, you know, we’d reach the end of the psychology and say so he learned choices have consequences. And grandpa taught me what I needed to do and I didn’t listen. Therefore, you know, and he’s a brilliant young man. Brilliant young man. So he learned a lot from that.

LILA ROSE: He got it.

DR. BILL SEARS: He got it.

LILA ROSE: And there was no timeout, there was no yelling, there was no cajoling. It was just, hey, just lost his boundary. We’re taking this away.

DR. BILL SEARS: Just lost his toy.

Gentle Parenting and Setting Boundaries

LILA ROSE: What about so there’s something called gentle parenting that’s very popular today, and I think there’s elements of it that I agree with for sure. There’s some examples where I think it can go too extreme. And here is a popular example that’s used among the gentle parenting advocates. And the correct response, I want your take on this.

So they say if the child is tantruming, let’s say a three year old is tantruming out of control, not listening. The correct response is to pick them up, hug them, hold them, calm them down, not to try to enforce the boundary or direct the behavior a different way. Immediately just give them a hug.

Now, I’m going to throw in a little twist here. I’ve noticed at least my kids, when they sometimes have their biggest outbursts, it’s because they’re disobeying already. You’re like, “come here” or “put that rock down. We got to walk home.” Or, you know, “stop taking the toy from your baby sister. Stop fighting with your brother, boy, stop fighting.” And then one of those, you know, directives are met ultimately with defiance and it leads to a meltdown.

So the. My concern with gentle parenting in this scenario, and again, I’m just nitpicking here because I agree with a lot of the philosophy and I think some of the foundations are similar to your own and our own. And is this kind of the concern is, are we rewarding bad behavior? If they’ve disobeyed once or twice, they’re doing something they shouldn’t do, then they melt down and then you just hug them, or you just, you know, show them extra love because they’re suffering in their meltdown, but they still didn’t obey or they still had done the thing that was not good for the other child or for themselves or for the family.

DR. BILL SEARS: No, I partially agree with that. The term gentle parenting, one of the philosophies of discipline that we’ve always practiced, Lila, was the worse the behavior of the child, the better the behavior of the parent.

LILA ROSE: That’s a good one.

DR. BILL SEARS: When the child has completely lost their mind is when the parent needs to ramp up a bit and do it smartly. Because sometimes it’s easy for a child to push your button that you just want to, well, “don’t do that again.” Something like that. But so keep that in mind. The they’ve lost their ability to control themselves and you have to control yourself in your mind.

So sometimes what you just said, growing up and looking at them mildly, kindly, a kind face, like mothers are so good at saying something like “how can I help you? How can I help you?”

LILA ROSE: Even when they’ve been disobedient and in their meltdown, just come over. “How can I help you?”

DR. BILL SEARS: “How can I help you?” Wait till the. Wait till the meltdown is over. And then they have consequences. So you say you try to get them over the meltdown to remember. Mom helped me when I lost my mind. When I was out of it, my mom was at her best. When I was at my worst, my mom was at her best. And then when my mind could settle down a bit, she explained the consequences.

LILA ROSE: Even if they’re too young to remember what even happened a few minutes ago. Just a hypothetical here.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yeah, they were. That’s okay. As long as they’ll remember. Mom helped me out of myself. I lost it, and mom helped me. So there’s. Where I think the mother’s intuition really helps is take a deep breath again. If I were my child, how would I want my mother to react? And after three kids in five years, you will know. You will know how to react.

Finding Balance Between Permissive and Disciplinary Parenting

LILA ROSE: I think some parents are afraid of being too especially good parents out of values. They want to raise good citizens. Because I think there is sort of a brand of parenting today that’s very permissive. Permissive parenting. And so I think a lot of mothers, their intuition is protect, hold, care for. If there’s a tantrum, just pick them up, give them a hug. You know, get over. If you’re frustrated, get over your frustration. Just love this child.

And then sometimes, you know, like even my dynamic with my husband, right, He’s a little more disciplinarian, you know, he’s a little more like, “oh, no, that’s not okay. That. That behavior’s not okay.” And I’m like, you know, not that I do it well every time, because I don’t. But that permissive parenting, I think temptation.

When do you know as a mother, when your intuition is good in terms of meeting the child where they’re at, loving on them, getting inside the mind of the child versus maybe tending to spoil them? Spoil again. That is also another loaded term. But you’re being too permissive is maybe the better term. And letting them run the roost and just do what they want as opposed to really leading them into learning good behaviors and to feeling, you know, an understanding of themselves and other people and how to behave, etc.

DR. BILL SEARS: Sure, that’s a good question. And Martha and I went through that because moms and dads correctly, like I said, they’re a blend. Dads tend to be, shall we say less permissive moms maybe be a little bit more permissive.

LILA ROSE: But it’s a blend or even vice versa. Because I’ve noticed some families, the moms that disciplinary.

DR. BILL SEARS: Vice versa. So Martha and I would talk about it. I remember the kids are in bed and we’re talking about some of the concerns of the day. And we would talk about when maybe she’d say, “did I handle that? Okay? What do you think?” Or I’d say, “did I handle that okay, what do you think? What should we do next time this happens?” You know?

And so I’d say, talk about it with your husband. Husband. Talk about it with Joe. And you’ll come to some conclusion. And oftentimes your conclusion, you come to that. That you’ll take a little bit of what he advises you to do and you’ll take a little bit. You’ll take a little bit of what he advises to do and he’ll take a little bit about what you advise and you’ll come out with something that’s right for your child. That’s right for your child.

Because no parent ever gets it right 100% of the time. It’s a learning experience. But what we learned is talk about it. And the next time that happens, when it probably will, then you know better how to do it.

Building Healthy Self-Esteem and Expressing Feelings

LILA ROSE: I love that it’s a teamwork and you’re working using the intuition of both of the parents. And then like you said earlier, if you are a single mom or a single parent, finding that community to kind of shore up your own understanding of how you’re doing this and improving it.

You have a chapter in your book called “helping your child express feelings,” and it comes right after the chapter called “self esteem, the foundation of good behavior.” Can you share some of the tips you have here for building healthy self esteem? That’s not like permissive, you know, “I can do whatever I want,” but really grounded in self dignity and dignity of others. And then how you approach feelings. Yeah, those big feelings that kids have and teach them how to express them as opposed to stuff them and the appropriate ways of doing that.

DR. BILL SEARS: Sure.

LILA ROSE: So big, big topics. I know you have whole chapters on these things.

DR. BILL SEARS: I remember when our kids got a little older into maybe even early teens, I would tell each one of them, I say, “here’s a promise I have and a request I have. I said, be honest with me. I want you to always feel comfortable telling me the truth. And I promise you, whatever you say to me, I will not get angry. You could come home ridiculous. You could come home dad I robbed a bank yesterday. Oh. Let’s talk about it. I promise you I will not get angry. I want you to always feel free to tell me what you’re feeling. No anger, no judgment. I will not ever yell at you. Well, that was stupid.” Or something like that. No, I’ll just go like that.

And I would also say to them, “sometimes when you talk to me, I promise that I won’t say anything for two or three minutes so you can talk and I’ll listen. Okay? No judgment. I won’t say anything. But if I find out you’re not being truthful, or I find out you have done something that I should know about, then there’s going to be discipline, there’s going to be a punishment.” See?

So they learned already that dad is there to help. Dad’s there to listen. But you got to be honest and got to be truthful, okay? And they remember that. Remember that. And when you’re. You’re a few years away from this. When the. When your girl starts dating, she’s not going to date. I have a card here. There’s a card says “a girl never outgrows her dad.”

LILA ROSE: How sweet.

DR. BILL SEARS: That’s a card that my daughter gave me.

LILA ROSE: You carry this with you?

DR. BILL SEARS: I. I carry it in my. In my suit, in my little briefcase. I carry that with me. “A girl never outgrows her dad.” And what’s sweet is my dad’s. My. My three girls still call me Daddy. Daddy, which I love. I love.

And I remember. And they were starting to date, and I had a little rule that I must meet their date. They must bring their date over to our house. They must meet the date. And they didn’t care for that, but I said no. And so Hayden, especially, she would tell her dates. “Now, I want to prepare you for my dad. I want to prepare you for my dad. He means well. He loves me. But it may be a little rough on you, but he’s doing that because he loves me. Okay?”

And you know, the date would come on. “Well, sit down, son. I’d like to talk with you about how to treat my daughter” type of thing. See? So our girls learn that. That they didn’t care for that. But my motive was because I love them. But sometimes you just have to, especially the older they get. Sometimes you just have to step in, but give them that open door. The door is open. You can always come through it. I’m here for you. No judgment, but I just want you to be honest with me. I want you to feel free to express your feelings. Just let it all out. I’ll just listen.

LILA ROSE: But if they are saying something that they did that’s wrong, but you need to tell them. I mean, if they’re telling you, they probably know it’s wrong already. Do you just have a talk afterwards? “Let’s talk about why you did this and what were you thinking.” And then you just have that conversation.

The Power of Family Confession

DR. BILL SEARS: We did. We had that. It’s funny how I remember those things. You have a good way, Lila, of helping me remember things. A long time ago, I guess. I think Bob and Jim were teenagers and we had something. I forgot what we call it confession night or something like that. That we had all the kids together. And Martha and I thought of this as an idea. So let’s just try it, what the heck.

And said, “okay, because tonight we’re going to talk about. The deal is there are probably some things you did in the disobedient way that we had told you not to do, and you did. This is a night that we want to go to. We’re going to erase all those. You just tell me what it is. Tell mom and dad what it is. What you did, when you did it, maybe why you did it and all that. And we won’t say a word. We’ll just listen. Erase. Erase.”

And Dr. Bob. Bob was the first one. He was the first one.

LILA ROSE: How old was he?

DR. BILL SEARS: Gosh, he must have been 13 or so. He said there was a concert going on at church. And I can’t remember why, but there was some reason I didn’t like the material the concert was playing. There was some reason. Even though it was at a church, there was some reason why I said, “no, you can’t go.” After Martha and I went to bed, he sneaked out and went to the concert.

LILA ROSE: How’d he get there?

DR. BILL SEARS: And he confessed that that night. “Mom and dad. You remember the night that you said I couldn’t go to the concert? I went to the concert.” And “thank you, Bob, for telling us that.” Sit. We didn’t say a word. But he told me a few days later that he felt better telling that. Because, see, sensitive kids are more likely to file away things they did wrong. And just being able to say, “mom and Dad, I disobeyed, and I’m sorry that.” Tell the truth. He felt good. He felt so much better telling us that. So that’s just an example of how you could handle that.

LILA ROSE: That is such a good tool. And it’s obviously. I know we’re both Catholics, so confession is. And it’s Christian. It’s this foundational principle of the human psyche that we need to confess and to a God who’s going to forgive us for it, you know, like, it’s not going to punish us in that moment. They’re just going to forgive us. That’s the power of Jesus Christ. Sacrifice for us.

DR. BILL SEARS: That’s right.

LILA ROSE: But I think about my son, my oldest son, and he sometimes says, “mom, I do so many bad things.” You know, he’s a very sensitive kid.

Encouraging Self-Reflection and Sports as Discipline

DR. BILL SEARS: Sure.

LILA ROSE: And I usually say, “You’re a good boy.” You know, of course we all make mistakes. I try to coach him and actually encourage him because he’s very hard on himself already. Just 5 years old, he’ll be six soon. But I just got a little insight from you that maybe I’ll try this. Okay, let’s talk about what did you do that you think is so bad? Let’s talk about it. Okay, all done. Let’s move on.

DR. BILL SEARS: Let’s move on.

LILA ROSE: Let him verbalize it instead of me just telling him, like, don’t worry about it.

DR. BILL SEARS: You know, you mentioned verbal. Just by talking about it, he’s realizing, “Yeah, that was bad. That was dumb.”

And on that similar topic, at 5 years, this is why sports are so good for children, especially children who have any discipline problems. We learned that. I coached Little League for about 25 years – Little League baseball and football, soccer, all that. Because, see, in sports they have rules. No psychology, just you do this, not that, period. Coach says this, you do it. Coach says this, you do it. Otherwise they yank you from the game. You play smart, you follow the rules, you stay in the game. You don’t, you’re out of the game, period. You see? And so that’s kind of real life in a way. So sports, I just want to mention, are very disciplinary for children.

Building Healthy Self-Esteem Through Positive Affirmations

LILA ROSE: Very good. What are some words, phrases, and maybe even behaviors that parents can model to children to help them with healthy self-esteem and emotional regulation? And I think about words. Is it just even saying “I love you. You’re my beautiful child. I’m so grateful to God for you.” What are some things that you and Martha used for that healthy self-esteem?

DR. BILL SEARS: And I’m so glad you asked that, Lila, because body image and self-esteem is a big problem right now, especially in teenagers. So what we did, we had a little thing and I think it works even better for girls, but works for boys and girls. I want you to write on a big sheet of paper “Five Things I Like About Me.”

And we started that. Actually, we started that earlier when I would lay down when they were having a tough day. I would lay down to sleep with them and maybe even – see, Matt was 10 years old. I was doing this, laying down to sleep with him at night until he was 10, and at 11 one night he told me, “Dad, I don’t need you to put me to bed anymore,” okay?

But I remember lying down with the kids when they’re a little bit older, sometimes right before bed. And I said, “Okay, let’s sing a little song, off to bed. But I’d like you to tell me before you go to bed five things you like about yourself. Just tell me.” So good. “Oh, I’m a good football player. I have pretty hair. I have pretty skin. I love my smile. I’m funny,” you know, or something. Just tell me five things you like about yourself as you drift off to sleep. It’s the last thing they remember before going off to sleep.

And then I would have them write on a piece of paper, big sheet of paper, “Five Things I Like About Me,” and paste it on the bathroom mirror. So as they’re brushing their teeth, as they’re sitting on the pot looking, you know, they’re in the bathroom a lot and they’re looking at that: “I am funny, I am pretty, I am witty.” So they’re – before going to bed and on waking up is when the brain files things. Like the brain has a big file cabinet and it’s more likely to – the blood flow to the brain is highest just before you wake up. And so it files those good thoughts away.

Addressing Body Image Issues

Because kids nowadays have a body image problem. They’re not so much men, boys, not much. Because men, they call them, “Oh, hi, old man. Hi, fat. Hi, skinny.” You know, they’ll do that, but not ladies. We want them all to love your body type. That doesn’t mean be unhealthy, but love your body type. It would be a boring world if we were all the same. You have people with large muscle, large bones, and – oh, I know.

I had one girl come in my office for counseling. She had a high BMI – body mass index – at the school, which I say is a – no, no, I call it “Baloney Mass Index.” Body mass index is when they plot you to see if you’re too heavy. Don’t get it. Don’t let your child get it. Especially because children with a certain body type, male and female, if they have large bones and large muscle – muscle and bone weighs more than fat – they’re going to flunk the BMI. So don’t get it.

And I do it in my office. It’s more the flab you grab than what the scale says. So that’s just one example of the schools need to get rid of that because, “Mom, I flunked the BMI.” “What does that mean?” And then I have to explain, “Honey, your body’s beautiful. It would be a boring world if we all looked alike. There’s some people who are taller, shorter, wider, heavier. That’s what the world is.”

And so body image is a big thing right now. I’m glad you mentioned that, Lila. So whatever parents can do. “You have a beautiful body, you have beautiful eyes, you have beautiful hair.” Pick out something that they like.

Advice for Working Mothers

LILA ROSE: You mentioned caregivers that you and Martha were interviewing to help with all your beautiful kids.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yes.

LILA ROSE: What is your advice to working mothers who may have to leave? I mean, right now I have a beautiful caregiver. She’s like a grandma to my kids, with my kids right now. So many ladies who listen to this show are working part time, maybe even full time. Different variations. I think there’s a lot of desire for moms to be, of course they want to be the primary caregiver, be there for their kids.

You know, we’re blessed in my family to have an arrangement where I can still be with my kids for most of their waking hours. But we’ve got some wonderful surrogate care. What are some – what’s your perspective on raising healthy children even with other care, you know, allocare care with other people involved? And what can working moms do in particular to shore up the healthiest children and the attachment to their children?

DR. BILL SEARS: And we went through that. In fact, our first year, I was a poor intern at the lowest paying hospital in the whole country. And Martha was a primary wage earner. She earned five times what I did.

LILA ROSE: Even with children.

DR. BILL SEARS: Yeah, Jim, the baby. She’d bring the baby over on her break for me to look after because the hospitals were next to each other. Then I’d bring her back when it’s time to nurse. And we juggle. It’s a big juggling act, but you’ll find a way.

But point number one, and I’ve had mothers in my office, first newborn checkup and they’re in tears. “Why are you in tears?” “I have to go back to work.” First thing I say, “Do you want to or do you have to?” If it’s want to, I just give them one advice. If it’s have to – so you have to financially. Yeah. I say, “Tell me about your grandfather or tell me about your dad.”

I had one patient. It’s a real story. “What’s your dad do for a living?” He says, “Oh, he’s an investment banker.” “Would you mind if I gave him a call?” So I step in the other room real fast. My cell phone, I called him, happened to answer. “Let’s say his name’s Joe. Joe, congratulations on your baby here and on your grandbaby. I’m calling you about an investment. How would you like to make the best investment in your whole life? Guaranteed returns lasting a lifetime, 80 years, all that.” And so I’m going on and he’s thinking, “What’s the dumb doctor doing calling me an investment banker?” And he said, “What is that?” “Pay for your daughter to stay home with her baby.”

LILA ROSE: Wow.

DR. BILL SEARS: And it worked. And he thanked me so much. He said, “I never thought of that.” So that’s one thing for grandparents to think of.

Secondly, a lot of moms can work from home now, which is great. I have a lot of moms who are, you know, after the COVID thing, working from home.

Thirdly, keep breastfeeding. By law, you are allowed breaks, breastfeeding breaks for your baby. So if you are nearby, the caregiver can bring the baby down for nursing.

Next, map out how you want your baby looked after. “I want you to wear my baby three hours a day in the baby carrier” and tell them why. “When my baby cries, I want you to pick up touch. I want high touch parenting from you.” And when you’re interviewing, you do that.

So we had some very – in Canada, they had what they call women who’d come over from other countries for a year to live with you. In return for living with you, they helped with the baby. So it was good. So we’ve been through this, but I think it’s important to interview them wisely and tell them exactly how you want your baby.

And then when you get home, when you get home, that’s not the time to get things done. The minute, the minute you walk through that door, you go right to your nest. We call it a nest. You have a little place in the living room or so, a rocking chair where you, as soon as you get home, pick baby up and nurse, cuddle and rock and cuddle. Don’t do anything else.

And then on non-work days is your high touch day. You wear the baby, touch the baby a lot and all that. And then whoever’s not working does most of touch. I know sometimes on weekends, Martha would sleep in. And I would take the baby out on a walk. See, so that’s a little juggling.

Sleep Training Philosophy

LILA ROSE: I love that. That’s very encouraging. And I think intuitive. What about sleep training? Do you train or do you – what’s your philosophy?

DR. BILL SEARS: Very confusing. We have – so I’m trying to give you a short answer because it’s a long subject.

LILA ROSE: Maybe we’ll do a whole episode deep diving into it.

DR. BILL SEARS: We studied this carefully and our first three were easy sleepers and we thought it was so difficult. Then the next two. And I remember Erin or Hayden, child number four, two weeks of age. She’s in a crib across the room crying. And Martha says to me, I remember this as of yesterday, “I don’t care what the books say. My gut feeling is to pick her up. I need to get some sleep.”

She picks up crying Hayden, brings her to bed, nurses her. They snuggle off together to sleep. I’m wide awake. I’m looking at them. I’m saying, “This is how it’s supposed to be. A mom’s intuition tells her that her baby needs her touch.”

LILA ROSE: But there are all those doctors who say, “You’re going to spoil the baby.”

DR. BILL SEARS: Spoiling the baby or you’re going to spoil the baby. And I say, and she said, “Well, where should baby sleep?” “Wherever you and baby get the best night’s sleep.”

LILA ROSE: And this is why you’re America’s favorite pediatrician, Dr. Sears. It’s such good common sense. So would you say in some cases, some crying is okay? Let the mother’s intuition rule? Not to never let the baby cry. You never not let the baby cry. But you know, this whole thing of put the baby in a separate room, make them cry themselves to sleep. Like, this is not – if your intuition is saying, don’t do it, don’t do it.

DR. BILL SEARS: There’s one word, there’s one phrase that books and pediatricians should keep their mouth shut on, and that is, “How do I respond to a baby’s cry?” I don’t have a mommy brain for somebody else’s baby.

LILA ROSE: Wow.

DR. BILL SEARS: So I tell a mother that’s only a question you can answer. You let the baby cry as long as it feels right to you. And some babies can cry off to sleep, but your mommy brain will say, “Enough’s enough. I need to pick up my baby. I’m not spoiling.” See, a baby’s cry is a baby’s language. A baby’s cry is a baby’s language purposely designed for the growth of the baby and the growth of the mother.

LILA ROSE: Beautiful.

DR. BILL SEARS: So when a mother listens to her baby’s cry, both the baby and the mother grow from it. That’s what I tell them.

LILA ROSE: I love that. And it’s so empowering, that message to mothers that we know our babies’ cry and what to do the best.

DR. BILL SEARS: So I’m glad you mentioned the term empowering because when you mention that word, I think, Lila, this is what I hope our programs do. Your programs have a way of empowering mothers. That’s what we’re here for, empowering women.

Final Thoughts on Discipline

LILA ROSE: I love that. Thank you so much, Dr. Sears. There’s so much more to talk about. We’re going to have to have Dr. Sears back again. I think you’re going to be a favorite. But this has been a wonderful primer for discipline at large.

Are there any other things that you think you want to share on the topic of discipline? I know we’ve covered a lot already. Anything else you want to add?

DR. BILL SEARS: I’d just say get our discipline book. All the stories are in there and it’s still very timely. If I had to change it, I wouldn’t change a thing. And also any book you and I mention on the program, we donate all the proceeds to children’s charities.

LILA ROSE: Beautiful.

DR. BILL SEARS: So hand the book to your friends and enjoy it.

Special Book Offer for Listeners

LILA ROSE: Beautiful. And you also, I heard, have a special ebook offer for our listeners for another free book download. Can you share about that?

DR. BILL SEARS: Oh yes, yes. My last book, Martha’s last book unfortunately. So what we did start about three, four years ago. We said “honey, the future is ebooks. Take everything we know about health, everything we know and let’s put it in an ebook and let’s make it fun to read.”

Let’s have every page be color, short paragraphs like the brain, why movement’s good for the brain. We have a brain with running shoes on. You know, things that you can remember and let’s do that together.

And so we did that together and it’s now finished. 240 pages. Fun reading, all science based. There’s nothing in there that isn’t referenced. My mentors, I give credit to them at the end and I’d be very honored, Lila, because I love your programs.

All they need to do is get a free copy and they just go to our home page, Ask Dr. Sears and you’ll see “The Feel Good Book.”

LILA ROSE: Beautiful.

DR. BILL SEARS: It’s funny. You’ll see it and it’ll be free to you. We’ll figure out a code or something where your listeners can get it free.

LILA ROSE: Amazing. We’ll put that link in the description.

DR. BILL SEARS: Okay.

Closing

LILA ROSE: That’s beautiful. Dr. Sears, thank you so much for your time. This has been awesome. Thank you for the ebook and thank you for the advice. I know this is going to benefit a lot of parents and aspiring parents.

DR. BILL SEARS: Thank you. Thank you.

LILA ROSE: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Lila Rose Show. I hope you enjoyed it. Don’t forget to download that free ebook and as always, don’t forget to be subscribed to the channel so that you never miss a future episode of the Lila Rose Show.

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