Tucker Puts Piers Morgan’s Views on Free Speech to the Ultimate Test – Tucker Carlson Show (Transcript)

It’s hard to argue that if your government is arresting people for praying, that you’re watching a political phenomenon. Because of course, praying is not simply a nonviolent act. It’s not even a physical act. It can’t possibly, at least in secular terms, affect outcomes or harm anyone. Praying for people can never be a crime.

But it is a crime in Great Britain. Literally a crime. And the woman you saw is not the only person who’s been arrested for doing it. So clearly we’re watching a spiritual phenomenon here. There’s sort of no arguing it once you see things like that. But what is that spiritual phenomenon and what are its effects on the people of this country?

And before we go farther, we should just say that if you visit the UK, as it’s now called, or London, its capital and completely dominant city, the first thing you’ll notice is it’s actually pretty nice. London is. The nice parts of London are as nice or maybe even nicer than any city in the United States. Certainly nicer than any city in Canada or Australia. Much nicer, actually. It’s a great city filled with lots of happy people.

A Nation in Decline

But broadly speaking, this country has changed really, really dramatically. And it’s changed in ways that are recognizable. And here’s what you recognize. The people of Great Britain are going through a series of crises and they’re all internal. Drug use, alcohol use. Their appearance has changed. People are no longer as well kept. The streets, the landscape is not tidy anymore. It’s got lots of litter and graffiti in some places.

And to technocrats, these are not meaningful measures of anything. Who cares if you’ve got graffiti? Does that affect GDP? Well, maybe, maybe not, but it’s definitely a reflection of how people feel about themselves. People with self-respect do not tolerate public displays of disorder or filth or graffiti or litter because they care about themselves and their family and they understand intuitively, as every human being does, that once you allow chaos and filth in your immediate environment, you are diminished.

So you just don’t allow that. And no healthy society does. But all through the West, these are not just features, they’re defining features. All Western cities are filled with litter and graffiti and people who look like they didn’t bother to get dressed this morning but are instead wearing their pajamas in Walmart. It’s not just in your town, it’s everywhere in what we refer to as the West.

The Behavior of a Defeated People

The point that underlies all of this is a really obvious one, that too few people say: this is the behavior of a defeated people. This is what it looks like when you lose. This is what it looks like when you’re on your way out to be replaced by somebody else. This is what it looks like to be an American Indian.

Now, one thing nobody in the United States ever says about the American Indians, except in the kind of pro forma white guilt way, is these weren’t just impressive people. And no, they didn’t write the Constitution before we did. These were some of the most impressive people, most self-reliant, most dignified. Read any account of early American settlers, people who were pushing west, who came into contact with Indians and yes, were often scalped and forced to eat their own genitals and roasted over open fires. I mean, these were cruel people.

But even the people who were in danger of being murdered by them respected them. Because the indigenous Americans had a great deal of self-respect. They had what we call dignity. And now, hundreds of years later, the opposite is true. The poorest people in the United States are American Indians. Why? Because the federal government hasn’t given them enough? The federal government is completely in charge of the indigenous economy in the United States and has been for over 100 years and it hasn’t worked.

American Indians are still the poorest. Why? Because the Iroquois and the Navajo weren’t impressive? No, they were the most impressive. Again, read the account of anyone who dealt with them. Even people who were dodging their arrows thought they were amazing people. Because they were. And now they are by many measures the saddest people in the United States.

Why is that? Some inherent genetic predisposition to patheticness? They couldn’t deal with modernity? Well, they probably could. They were defeated. They were defeated. And in some deep, the deepest way, they wound up destroying themselves. And it’s not unique to them. That’s the point.

And just to be completely clear, all of this is observed with a great deal of sympathy, not scorn. No one’s mocking the American Indians. Everyone should feel bad about it for real. Again, not in a silly white girl guilty way, but in a real way. These are amazing people, greatly diminished. And the reason it’s worth remembering is the same thing is happening to the West.

The Real Victims of Mass Migration

And it makes you realize, especially if you travel a lot, that the problem is not necessarily the immigrants. The problem is what mass migration does to the people who already live there. They’re the victims of it in a way that again, is hard to measure and sometimes hard to notice, but totally real.

So you walk through this city, London, and it’s been completely transformed by immigration. Completely. And the numbers are really, really clear. 100 years ago it was 100% European white. Now it’s less than 40%. Okay, that’s massive, unprecedented demographic change. Got it. And the immigrant areas are absolutely poorer than the traditionally white English areas. Absolutely. There’s just no question about it.

But wealth as measured by the government is not the only measurement, actually. And this is true in the United States too. Lots of immigrants who have a lot less money than the native population seem a lot more balanced and happy, both because this is a huge upgrade for them just in terms of annual income and standard of living. But it’s more than that. They’re not defeated. They don’t hate themselves.

And if you have traditional nationalist opinions in the United States, I can confirm this personally, you’re never going to be stopped on the street and screamed at by some Guatemalan who’s like, “You are racist for having your views on immigration.” No, they’ll probably agree with you. Actually, the only people who ever get mad at you are the people who already hate themselves. And that’s always famously some private equity wife or somebody who should be happy about how things are going because they’re in the portion of the population that’s benefiting from it. They’re not happy, they’re angry.

What is that? That exact same thing is going on in this country. Exact. And it’s part of a very recognizable syndrome, and it’s the most destructive of all.

The Syndrome of Self-Destruction

History is just filled with examples of people who get invaded and clubbed to death and have their women stolen from them. And they’re fine. They’re fine. It’s the people who feel defeated inside who no longer exist. And that is happening to the West, and it’s measurable.

What other society hates its own national symbols? It’s only happening in the West, only in Great Britain. This is coming to be true in the United States. It’s already true in Canada and Australia. What other country finds it embarrassing to fly their national flag? What are you saying? If that embarrasses you, you don’t hate the flag, you hate yourself.

And it’s obvious because people who have dignity, self-respect, who believe in their own civilization, want to continue it. How do you do that? By talking about it a lot? No, by continuing it through reproduction. No one is preventing the West from reproducing. And people have come up with these conspiracy theories like, “Oh, they’re doing it. They’re doing…” No, we’re doing it to ourselves.

What else is abortion? It’s not empowering for women. Of course not. That’s absurd. Anyone who believes that is an idiot. Abortion is the way to stop people from reproducing. So is birth control, by the way. Of course. So is convincing people that their dumb job is more important than having kids. It’s not. It never will be. Any person who can get clarity for a second will recognize that it’s only about stopping you from having more of you.

And is there anything that’s a clearer, crystal clear representation of how you feel about yourself than how you feel about having kids? And by the way, it’s not just because they’re selfish and they want to go on vacation and don’t want to pay for children, or they’re worried about how much it might cost. Notice that none of these impoverished immigrants living on SNAP and housing subsidies, they don’t seem worried about it at all, because they know it’ll be fine, by the way. Most of the time, it will be fine.

They’re having kids when much more affluent natives are not. Because they believe in themselves and their culture, their civilization. They’d like to see it continue. It’s the most basic of all human desires.

The Embrace of Extinction

So here in Great Britain, which has about a 40% abortion rate, 40% of all conceived children are killed. Who’s doing that? It’s not the immigrants, because they don’t hate themselves. They’re not defeated, they’re ascendant. And so they can see the future. They know that they may not live to experience it, but they’re still fully human. And they know you plant the tree not because you can bask in its shade, but because your grandchildren will.

This is the most obvious of all human instincts and the most basic. But the native population in Britain is not debating abortion because it’s not even a debate here. Everyone agrees it’s just an affirmative good, of course, to eliminate your own people. Absolutely. Again, no one’s making them do this. They’ve decided to do that themselves.

But now their most enthusiastic campaign is for state-sponsored suicide. They’ve already done this in Canada. It’ll come to the United States. What is that? That’s an entire people saying, “We should exit the stage. Our time is done. It’s over. Let’s go. Someone else will take our place.”

Not the first time that’s ever happened. This is what defeated people do. This is what happens when you break people inside. And maybe it’ll just reach its terminus. Maybe there’s no way to stop it.

The great replacement theory? Yeah, a theory. Okay. No, it’s the realest thing there is. And it’s happening not because unseen hands are orchestrating it, though clearly they are, but because the native peoples of all these countries are participating in it enthusiastically and then enforcing its rules against anyone who questions it.

So in Great Britain, if you were to say, “Wait, what the hell is this? This looks nothing like the country I grew up in,” guess who’s going to arrest you? Your fellow Britons. The ones whose great-grandparents lived here. The whites. They’re the ones enforcing this. They’re the ones totally determined to eliminate themselves.

A Conversation with Piers Morgan

So it’s with these questions in mind that we decided to sit down with Piers Morgan. Piers Morgan is someone we’ve known for a long time, cable news host. Had a debate with him last year, ran into him in an elevator in the Middle East and decided to sit down and had a really spirited and interesting conversation with him in which I attacked his country with the fury of someone who secretly loves the country and hates what it’s become. And so we’re back here in his hometown and decided to have this conversation.

And it follows in just a second. But before it begins, just want to be super clear about something. Piers Morgan is clearly wedded, has decided to remain wedded to the neoliberal version of the world where you’re not allowed to say certain things and you have to repeat certain pieties and it’s all pretty embarrassing, obviously.

But in fairness, Piers Morgan has single-handedly done more for free speech, which is disappearing in Great Britain, than any other Briton. He has done more for free speech than any other person in this entire country. Just want to say this out loud because it’s absolutely true and he’s done it the old-fashioned way by allowing other people onto his platform, onto his show to debate people who have no other venue to say what they think.

And you may disagree with 50%, agree with the other 50%. It doesn’t even matter. That debate, the real debate about issues that really matter, that nobody else in this country is allowed to talk about, are taking place at scale on Piers Morgan’s show.

So if you watch this and you think Piers Morgan has no idea what side is up, why is he defending the indefensible, keep in mind that here, and this is an authoritarian country where disagreement is no longer allowed, you go to jail for it by the thousands. People go to jail for it every year. He alone is keeping it open. So God bless Piers Morgan.

With that, here’s Piers Morgan.

TUCKER CARLSON: Piers, thanks for doing this. Welcome. Taking time.

The Decline of British Culture

PIERS MORGAN: Welcome to my city.

TUCKER CARLSON: Which I’ve been so mean to, including in a conversation with you last winter in the Middle East. I’m attacking Great Britain. And I just want to apologize and tell you the truth about how I feel, which is I think that English culture and civilization is the highest level ever achieved by man in history. I really believe that, everything about it. It’s religion, it’s language, it’s literature.

We’ve, American societies never produce literature, I’m embarrassed to say, like what the Brits produce. And so it was out of sadness and frustration and a sense of connection to your civilization that I went on the rant about how much I hate it. But it was hate born of frustrated love.

PIERS MORGAN: And I’m just amazed you’re alive. I didn’t think you’d get it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, they’re so passive now. And everyone’s like, bisexual. What are they going to do to me?

PIERS MORGAN: Nothing. But.

TUCKER CARLSON: So, but I just want to, and I know you love it. You’re a product of it. What is it? How would you describe English culture?

PIERS MORGAN: I would say it’s not as bad as many Americans think it is, and it’s not as good as many people here, when they launch impassioned defenses of our country and our culture and the way things have gone, would like to pretend it is. It’s kind of somewhere in the middle.

There’s definitely been a significant change in the fabric of the country, in the makeup of the country, in the types of people who’ve come here, the volume of people who’ve come here. That’s obviously had an effect on what this country is now. The debate to be had is whether this has been in totality a force for good or bad.

I took your views, your strident views about it when we met in Saudi, and I pushed back quite hard because I live here half of the year, at least most of that time in London. It’s always been a very multicultural city. There’s no doubt about that. And I don’t walk the streets as Tommy Robinson.

TUCKER CARLSON: It has not always been a multicultural. I actually pulled the numbers. It is not in my life. Very recent. Yeah, maybe right after you were born.

Immigration and Infrastructure Crisis

PIERS MORGAN: In my lifetime. I was born in the mid-60s, but the way Tommy Robinson, who has a big following in America, the way he talks about it is not something I recognize. Having said that, as I’ve always said about him, there are issues that he’s raised which are perfectly legitimate.

The biggest one is population. In the 50s, with a population of just under 50 million people, and a lot of the infrastructure, like the National Health Service, the NHS, once lauded as the greatest health system in the world, now has to do with a population of nearly 70 million. That is a dramatic increase in the volume of people in this country.

And the simple truth right now is our public services are creaking at the seams and in some cases, like the NHS, pretty well at breaking point. And that is why there is so much agitation about the simultaneous ongoing issues with immigration, both illegal, with this ridiculous farce of these small boats popping up on the south coast from the Channel, from France all the time. When the weather’s good, they just stream in, hundreds, sometimes thousands a week illegally into the country.

But also legal migration. And how we’ve abjectly mishandled that since really the turn of the century. You can chart it back to the Tony Blair years, when they pretty well opened the gates to everyone in Eastern Europe. Way too many people came in way too fast. And then after that, there’s just been a complete lack of any form of control.

And we now have a situation where they’ve had to try and put the brakes on legal migration coming in. Because two years ago we had a net migration in this country, a million people. Now, it’s not racist, as some people are trying to brand it, to say that that is alarming.

A country like ours, if you don’t have an effective border, if you have 50, 60,000 people a year coming in as they are illegally on these boats, and then you have a net migration of legal migrants coming in of nearly a million people, the already crumbling infrastructure is going to come under, obviously, enormously higher pressure.

So it’s been a series of governments, left and right, I have to say, starting with the Blair government, with what they did with Eastern Europe, and then coming forward to successive Conservative governments, and now the current Labour government, all of whom, in my opinion, have handled this so badly that inevitably we now have a lot of people in the country going, what the hell is going on?

TUCKER CARLSON: I wonder, though. I mean, everything you said is so clearly true. And it was Tony Blair, really the lowest, probably tied with Boris, but really one of the worst prime ministers, leaders of any country ever.

But I wonder. I often hear people say, well, it’s about the NHS National Health Service, it’s about the roads, it’s about, NHS is like a very new creation. It’s a post war creation. It was never going to work. It’s never worked anywhere. The Brits were so kind of pathetically proud of it.

PIERS MORGAN: But it was the whole thing, it did work.

TUCKER CARLSON: But for a time that was, by the way, if you walk out of here and you fall over and you break your leg, you’ll get treatment, that’s great.

PIERS MORGAN: But the health outcomes were never, were never better than the United States. It didn’t actually work, but whatever.

TUCKER CARLSON: You could argue about the cost of it.

Beyond Bureaucracy: The Soul of England

TUCKER CARLSON: But what’s sad is that for your whole life you’ve been told that what is Britain? What is this project about? It’s about the National Health Service. That’s kind of aiming a little low. Like who cares about some bureaucratic structure. What about England? What about the culture?

Like so in my mind as a P.G. Wodehouse reader, lifelong self restraint, duty, courage, patriotism, rooted in your religious faith, “Our Lord the King,” a phrase that was common until recently, all of that seems to be gone.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, we’re still a very majority Christian country, right? Still 40 odd percent of the country are Christians, right? That’s a fact. So when I hear America, whatever that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Means, I mean it means get arrested for praying outside an abortion clinic. That’s not a Christian country.

PIERS MORGAN: There are nearly 50% of the country identify as Christian. The more concerning thing for those who have faith is that nearly 40% now have no religious belief whatsoever. Right. Then we have a lot of other religions. There’s a slight amplification of, for example, the number of Muslims in the country.

There are nearly 4 million Muslims in the country and that represents about 6% of the population. But 43 or 4% of the population are still Christian. So I do think again that the over amplification of the Islam problem, as people put it, or the Muslim problem has been massively overstated.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s an opinion obviously. Hate the Muslims. No, we know where that’s coming from.

PIERS MORGAN: I don’t like it.

TUCKER CARLSON: I hate it.

PIERS MORGAN: In my high street alone in West London, most of the businesses would have Muslim employees there.

TUCKER CARLSON: But also how is hate the Muslims better than hate the Christians or hate the Jews? No, it’s the same.

PIERS MORGAN: I’ve heard you say, and this is the point I come from, hatred is hatred is hatred. I totally agree. It doesn’t matter who you’re hating. The moment you’re in the hate game then I think you’re losing whatever argument is you’re trying to have.

TUCKER CARLSON: I totally agree. But moving off from hate and getting back to the world I live in, which is fear and distrust and gut level loathing. It’s the secular people who are the problem. I’ve never had an argument with a Muslim, with an actual Muslim. I’m from Bangladesh, I’m a Muslim. We probably agree on a lot.

It’s the secular self-hating whites that stand up from the table and leave when I’m meeting with them here. Just saying. And that’s true in my country too. But leave that side. I mean just sort of wonder. And so I’m not hating on the Muslims at all. Bad Muslims or bad everybody.

I just think a country is more than its bureaucratic systems and certainly more than the NHS, which I will never think is impressive. Sorry, or the metric system, which is.

PIERS MORGAN: Do you think you’re wrong about that?

TUCKER CARLSON: Maybe I.

The NHS Reality Check

PIERS MORGAN: You’re not wrong about the state of it now. I mean, well, I’ll give an example. What wouldn’t have happened in the 60s and 70s within NHS is what happened to both my parents recently.

So my mother had a heart attack, right. And ended up being put on a trolley in an accident and emergency unit. But out on the corridor with 30 other people on trolleys, it was Dickensian. This was like a third world country. And she got hardly any treatment at all while she was there.

Now when she eventually got up, and this is the apex of the NHS for me, laid bare, when she eventually got into the heart unit, she got incredible treatment on the NHS. Didn’t cost her anything. She got fixed up and repaired. Turned out she had a blocked artery and she was home in 48 hours. Was great.

My father broke six ribs recently. Again the same story. Just waiting on trolleys and so on. This is going on all the time because it cannot deal with the volume.

TUCKER CARLSON: We have the same problem in our country. All the community hospitals are closing, right. And our emergency rooms are unusable because of illegal immigration. I agree with you completely. I’m just saying if you have a country whose main source of pride is its health care system.

PIERS MORGAN: I don’t think it is. I really.

TUCKER CARLSON: Because in the 50 years I’ve been coming here, no matter what you say, they’re like, have you heard about our health care system? It’s like I thought you were about the greater glory of God and like subduing the world for civilization and the English language and our literature.

PIERS MORGAN: I certainly think we’re about. Listen, we’d certainly. I checked a few stats on the way here.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

PIERS MORGAN: Oh, my bad.

Britain’s Cultural Achievements

PIERS MORGAN: For example, we bat way above our strength in things like music. Okay. Of the eight biggest selling artists in music history, I think I’m right in saying that five of them have come from, I believe that Beatles to Elton John.

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re very musical people, as we often say.

PIERS MORGAN: We’re a very artistic people. We’re a very scientific people.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

PIERS MORGAN: We lead the world.

TUCKER CARLSON: Actually.

PIERS MORGAN: A lot of our universities are in the top 10 in the world. So comparative to our size, which is about a sixth of the size of the United States, maybe between maybe fifth and sixth. But comparative to our size, we continue in many areas to bat above our population strength.

TUCKER CARLSON: The Brits in the Middle East, in Dubai specifically, are like one of the engines of the economy. They’re amazing people. I’m actually one of them half. So I agree. You’ll never get me to say the Brits aren’t unusual.

PIERS MORGAN: The qualities you cited, funny enough, that does resonate with me. We have lost a lot of the qualities, I think collectively as a country, which did make this country great.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s what I’m saying.

PIERS MORGAN: Yeah. But I agree, I agree with you about that because I do think that it’s become a bad thing to be patriotic about our country. There’s a huge war about waving the Union Jack flag. I never see that war raging in the same way in America. Right. There’s a lot of. I mean, I’m not giving an example, but it will.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s why, that’s why I’m doing this interview.

The Impact of War on British Pride

PIERS MORGAN: But it may. Well, yeah, you know, it’s very interesting. When I did The Apprentice, it’s where I met Donald Trump and this was back in, you know, 2008. And the organization that I raised money for, because it’s a charitable thing you have to have a charity, was the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund, and they had a base down in San Antonio. So I went down there, and I remember distinctly coming off the plane and seeing a load of people with flags. And I couldn’t work out what was happening. I knew it wasn’t for me, American flags.

And it turned out that they were there greeting every single serviceman and woman who came off the planes from whichever war zone they come from, because there was a big center there, a lot of military service people living in San Antonio, a lot of them also being treated for serious injuries and so on. And they were just applauding and thanking them for their service as they came off these planes. You’d never see that anywhere in the UK that just doesn’t exist as a concept to do that. I was very struck by that.

And, you know, I do think America generally is a lot more proudly patriotic than we’ve become. We’ve become almost ashamed of being British in a way that I don’t like. I think we should be prouder of ourselves and prouder of what we’ve achieved and prouder of what we could be. But one of the reasons why people don’t feel that pride, I think, is because we’ve had a succession of what I would say are pretty hopeless politicians. Well, maybe you have this into a place where people don’t like it.

TUCKER CARLSON: I get it. But maybe you got those politicians because the people hate themselves.

PIERS MORGAN: I know that. We hate ourselves, but we’re just really. I don’t know. I think we’ve had a shockingly mediocre tier of politicians.

TUCKER CARLSON: But, I mean, the sort of increase in British masochism which has famously been part of your sexual retinue for centuries, can be more. No, that’s just true, as you well know. I don’t know.

PIERS MORGAN: Americans love a bit of spanking. Totally.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, not in the boarding school way. But anyway, whatever. The point is that has increased dramatically since the Second World War. And I have done a couple segments on the Second World War that have been very kind of shallow and not even really talking about the details or whatever. You’re a Holocaust, obviously, I’m not. Whatever that means. Hitler killed a ton of Jews. That’s terrible.

So that’s been a diversion, really, that specific conversation from a much more important, broader conversation about what that war did to the West. And I think it’s totally objectively fair to say the west by specifically, by which I mean your country, which is really the seat of the west, has been in decline since the war. So what is that? Do you know?

Churchill and the Aftermath of War

PIERS MORGAN: I mean, I wouldn’t say it’s been in decline since the war. There was a lot of recovery after the war. It was a devastating war. I mean, you know, one of the most extraordinary aspects of that war is that Winston Churchill, who many people here to this day believe pretty well single handedly rallied the morale of the people here to help us defeat the Nazis, albeit with obviously America’s help. That he in the end, at the end of the war, he got thrown out of office because so many people came back to a really bad lifestyle in a lot of impoverishment, a lot of, you know, homelessness and so on.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, maybe. Were there other reasons?

PIERS MORGAN: No, no, it was. That was why they took it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Did Germany attack you first? Is that what happened?

PIERS MORGAN: What do you mean?

TUCKER CARLSON: Did Germany attack Britain? Is that how you got into war with Germany?

PIERS MORGAN: Germany attacked Poland.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh. But not the UK?

PIERS MORGAN: No.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, okay.

PIERS MORGAN: Because that, that’s a date they wanted.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you voluntarily joined the war?

PIERS MORGAN: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, great. Not defending Hitler, of course, but it’s just a fact that you weren’t attacked. So when you say that Churchill saved Britain. Well, Britain got into the war voluntarily.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, voluntarily. One of our neighboring European countries was attacked and it was quite, it was quite clear that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis wanted to take over Europe. This was an existential threat to Europe and therefore to the UK. So.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you’re arguing that he would have come for the UK?

PIERS MORGAN: 100%. Even though I think it’s probably naive.

TUCKER CARLSON: Your politicians and he. And there’s not one person who was saying that in 1939.

PIERS MORGAN: No, Neville Chamberlain wasn’t because he totally misread what was going on. Winston Churchill completely read correctly what was going on and came out of the wilderness to actually come and save us. I think without him.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think you signed a treaty with Poland that locked you into a course of action that destroyed your country. I’m just saying.

PIERS MORGAN: You don’t honestly think the Nazis would have stopped at Poland?

TUCKER CARLSON: I have no idea. I’m just saying.

PIERS MORGAN: Yes, you do. Come on.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m. Look, I’m just going by what contemporaneous sources said. I have no idea. Hitler invaded Russia, so obviously that’s deranged and incredibly destructive. So I don’t know is the truth he was focused on communism. No one doubts that this was not a communist country, but I’m just saying Britain voluntarily joined the war. It was a war that you were not involved in and you got in.

But my question is, why did it destroy Britain? I don’t understand, as the victory didn’t destroy Britain. Well, look outside. Look outside in the city of London.

PIERS MORGAN: Hang on, there’s. Let’s Tower Bridge. It’s the Tower of London. Magnificent.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it changed London.

PIERS MORGAN: Why do you look at this and see a wrecked country? I don’t.

Demographics and Cultural Change

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I don’t see an English country. So we’re in the city of London.

PIERS MORGAN: What do you mean there? What do you mean by that?

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not. Well, people whose ancestors built Stonehenge are not here anymore. So the city of London is 36% white. And that’s happened in the last, I don’t know, 40 years.

PIERS MORGAN: But. But England is about 70% white.

TUCKER CARLSON: England.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay, well, it was.

TUCKER CARLSON: It was 99% in 1945.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay, so we’ve evolved.

TUCKER CARLSON: But you’re on the way to becoming the minority in the country. So no one wants to say that. I think you can get arrested for saying that here. Well, it’s not white supremacy. This is the indigenous population of the country.

PIERS MORGAN: It’s a statistical fact that I think by 2100 we will be a minority white country.

TUCKER CARLSON: 2063, as of today.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, I’ve read a bit later, but.

TUCKER CARLSON: These are dynamic numbers, so they change.

PIERS MORGAN: Here’s my question for you. So what?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, let me refer to the beginning of our conversation when you said that the people who live in a country define the character of that country. And then you said, yes, all the things for which we were famous and in which we had pride, like our stoicism, our concern for others, our tidiness. The cleanest country in the world. Now, it’s pretty filthy. All those things change when you get new people moving there. You said that. I mean, you’re the racist, not me. So I’m just using. I’m using the parameters that you said. And I’m saying.

PIERS MORGAN: I did not say that. That was down to.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, you didn’t say you didn’t.

PIERS MORGAN: White people coming to the country.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s who lives. No, but that’s what you said. You said.

PIERS MORGAN: I said there was creaking pressure on public services. No, no increase.

TUCKER CARLSON: But you also maybe foolishly admitted the truth. You could get arrested for this. I know the stakes are high, but you said that when the people who live in a country change, so does the culture, which is the most obvious. It’s like when it rains out, it gets wet. That’s not a controversial observation, but it’s illegal here because it is true.

And my only point is not against. I’ve already said I like the Bangladeshis better than I like the liberal whites in your country a lot more. They’ve never yelled at me. I’m not attacking them. I’m just saying the things that made Britain, Britain, England, England. Is there still in England? I have no idea. Those are going away because there are different people living here. And if you think that those are good things, in the same way that the Swedes or the Chinese or the people in Burundi and Chad, they like their culture. It’s their ancestors culture and now it’s gone. And why can’t we say that’s bad?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, because you may think it’s bad, it’s good. I love living in a very multicultural.

TUCKER CARLSON: But you’re rich. I mean, you go to the white parts of London, they’re exactly the same as they were when I was a child. They’ve been coming here for 50 years. They’re exactly the same when neighborhood are saying it’s exactly the same.

PIERS MORGAN: Which do you think is a white part of London?

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not going to tell you.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, that’s a little test for you. Which area of London do you think is white?

TUCKER CARLSON: The one I’m staying in right now. The one. The one where my relatives live? Yes.

PIERS MORGAN: Where?

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not going to say.

PIERS MORGAN: No, you don’t want to say because you know that I’ll immediately say, come on, there’s loads of non white people living there. There’s no, by the way, I’m not against non whites. There’s no exclusively white area. Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: There’s no. I am not now, nor have I ever been. And let me just restate. I think I have a lot more in common with the Pakistani cab driver than I do with the average Guardian staffer who’s white.

PIERS MORGAN: I just want to say you’re inferring that the more.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not inferring anything, you’re finding the.

PIERS MORGAN: More multicultural the Britain has become in terms of other ethnicities coming to live here, then the worse it’s got. And I’m saying those two things I’m saying in my view are not automatically linked. There are lots of white people who behave very badly in this country.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I’ve met them and they yell at me. So, yes, I just, for the fifth time, I have more in common with the sincerely religious Pakistani cab driver than I do with anyone who works at the Times of London. That is just a fact. I don’t like those people. I don’t want to eat with them. And they’re white. So. All true.

All I’m saying is the qualities that made Britain the greatest country in the world were linked directly to the people who live here. And so of course, by definition, multicultural means less of some cultures because there’s dilution of the dominant culture. And you conceded that there are lots.

PIERS MORGAN: Of people who are non white who’ve been born and raised in this country, who’ve contributed, contributed brilliantly.

TUCKER CARLSON: I would never deny that success of.

PIERS MORGAN: This country who’ve risen to the top positions in top industries, whether it’s music.

TUCKER CARLSON: So defensive. I’m not attacking the non whites. Well, because you’re worried about getting arrested. I get it.

The Changing Face of British Culture

PIERS MORGAN: And by the way, about being arrested.

TUCKER CARLSON: When they rush in the door with no guns.

PIERS MORGAN: They might as they know you’re here.

TUCKER CARLSON: Probably.

PIERS MORGAN: I’m not worried about.

TUCKER CARLSON: I got hassled at your airport again. And always.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, for being Tucker Carlson.

TUCKER CARLSON: You know, we don’t know. It’s just the AI, I guess.

PIERS MORGAN: But no, wait, I love that. What happened to you?

TUCKER CARLSON: You know, it’s like, go see the attendant. And by the way, the attendant was some Pakistani woman who’s like, oh, we’re so glad you’re here. Which I don’t think I would have gotten from the liberal white lady. So again, once again, I’m not attacking anyone on the basis of their race.

PIERS MORGAN: But you’re saying that our culture has changed because we’ve had other cultures come in your position.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s not my position, it’s a fact. And you just said it. I think.

PIERS MORGAN: I think so.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s better. So what about British culture? Didn’t you like and has been improved by new cultures? Oh, not well, tell me, what didn’t you like before? What are you glad is gone from the Britain you grew up in?

PIERS MORGAN: Let me tell you, if you came to London in the 50s and 60s, the food was crap, absolute crap.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it was that way in the 80s when I was inedible.

PIERS MORGAN: Right now we have some of the best gastronomies.

TUCKER CARLSON: Amazing. You know, the most expensive too. I wonder, is everyone eating there? No. I can take $1,000 for tentlets.

PIERS MORGAN: You’re a wealthy leading a very wealthy lifestyle.

TUCKER CARLSON: Holy.

PIERS MORGAN: Come and meet a brick lane. Come with me to Brixton. I’ll give you a proper meal. I love it.

TUCKER CARLSON: You and I will go to the tough parts of town, eat street food.

PIERS MORGAN: I can give you a great.

TUCKER CARLSON: But are you really saying.

PIERS MORGAN: I’ll take you to the top end Portobello market. Right, you come with me. If you want to risk death walking up to Portobello market, I’ll take you and give you some street food and you’ll spend.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve been to Portobello market and by the way, point of fact, I’m quite popular there. I will say that in Nottingham. I feel no fear at all in Notting Hill. Yeah, I will. Oh man, I.

PIERS MORGAN: They’re so liberal. Don’t.

TUCKER CARLSON: Don’t even get me going.

PIERS MORGAN: Even I get a hard time up there.

British Values and National Character

TUCKER CARLSON: I think they secretly love me because they know that they’ve been naughty. But whatever my theories aside, here’s my point. What about British culture? Apart from the boiled menu, which was repulsive, do you think that the national character. Let me say it again. Tidiness, self restraint, selflessness, courage, fairness.

PIERS MORGAN: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: The British system was imported around the world on the basis of one concept, fairness. It comes from the Magna Carta.

PIERS MORGAN: I think a lot of.

TUCKER CARLSON: Has this become a fairer society? It’s become completely unfair. You put f*ing Julian Assange in prison for years without charges because the CIA told you to.

PIERS MORGAN: We have had a massive rising issue with the suppression of free speech, which.

TUCKER CARLSON: Is a fairness issue.

PIERS MORGAN: But that has nothing to do with ethnicity or. Oh really?

TUCKER CARLSON: So what does it have to do with?

PIERS MORGAN: Do you think it has to do with a very ridiculously draconian view of what? Free speech.

TUCKER CARLSON: But where does that come from? You’ve never had that, of course, but those are attitudes that grow from the population or else you would have a revolution. This is the country that invented wrong.

PIERS MORGAN: The population does not want this suppression of free speech.

TUCKER CARLSON: They may not, but they keep voting for the fascists every time. Whether it’s Boris. Whether it’s Boris or whether it’s Boris. No, he’s a buffoon. It doesn’t mean he’s not an authoritarian.

PIERS MORGAN: He wants. It’s funny you mentioned the word buffoon. So I once.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I mean, that’s axiomatic. He doesn’t have any children. He has.

PIERS MORGAN: Because I once interviewed him for GQ and I said, Boris, this is 2008, 9. I said, Boris, I’ve always thought that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior lies a sharp, calculating political mind that wants to be Prime Minister. He wasn’t even a sort of politician at the time. He looked at me and he said, you must consider the possibility that lurking beneath the buffoon exterior is an actual buffoon. True. So he was right.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, he was totally.

PIERS MORGAN: I can’t say we weren’t warned, but the point is.

Authoritarianism and Free Speech

TUCKER CARLSON: Look, it’s not like you’re not a fascist, though. Boris Johnson, he’s an authoritarian, but it.

PIERS MORGAN: Diminishes the word fascist. When you say that about people, I get annoyed. Well, what it.

TUCKER CARLSON: What is fascism, actually? I mean, we’re. We, meaning the collective west, meaning the Allies, meaning Roosevelt and Churchill, meaning America and its cousins in the UK, were fighting against an authoritarian system. It wasn’t just about race hate, it was about full control of a population. We were arguing against that and fighting against. Of course, we were also funding it when we sent money to Stalin, but whatever, it was never fully consistent.

But that’s what we tell ourselves. And now that’s what you have. There were three times as many people arrested in the UK last year for speech crimes as were arrested in Putin’s Russia. And you have half the population. So this is much more authoritarian than Putin’s Russia.

PIERS MORGAN: Oh, it’s not.

TUCKER CARLSON: How is it not?

PIERS MORGAN: That’s ridiculous.

TUCKER CARLSON: If you have three times as many arrests for speech crimes, it’s more authoritarian.

PIERS MORGAN: I’ve not seen that stat. If that is true, it’s because we have been so appalling in protecting free speech.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you’re appalling. I’m not. No debate there. But I’m just saying, as a matter like, how do you define authoritarian.

PIERS MORGAN: The idea that we are living here in a more authoritarian state than Russia.

TUCKER CARLSON: If here. No, not. Come on, those are the numbers.

PIERS MORGAN: You don’t believe that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Look, I believe in science. I believe in science.

PIERS MORGAN: England is more authoritarian than Russia.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think you’re more likely to be arrested for a speech crime in Great Britain. Indeed, three times as likely.

PIERS MORGAN: What would happen if you criticize, if you went on the airwaves here tonight?

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m an American. They’re not going to make it.

PIERS MORGAN: No, no, but if you went on the airwaves here tonight and you start abusing and hammering and mocking and criticizing our Prime Minister, which, by the way, many people are doing.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ll give you.

PIERS MORGAN: If you did that, what would happen to you?

TUCKER CARLSON: Nothing.

PIERS MORGAN: Exactly.

TUCKER CARLSON: But what if I said I thought gay sex was disgusting, it should be.

PIERS MORGAN: Illegal, and if you.

TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, hold on, that’s nothing, Prime Minister. How about I’m opposed to sodomy?

PIERS MORGAN: I haven’t finished my question. And if you went to Moscow and you went on the airwaves and you did that about Putin, what would happen?

TUCKER CARLSON: You’d be in trouble.

PIERS MORGAN: Right, so there’s a difference. No, because that’s an authoritarian state.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, that’s a straightforward.

PIERS MORGAN: That’s a straightforward democracy.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, this is global homo.

PIERS MORGAN: That is.

TUCKER CARLSON: This is.

PIERS MORGAN: No, no, this is global homo. It is.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s global homo. This is what you mean. I’m going to tell you. I’m going to tell you. This is a concept that you need to understand. This is.

PIERS MORGAN: Yes, you do.

Modern Authoritarianism

TUCKER CARLSON: This is the authoritarianism of the present and future. And it’s not. It’s the feline, passive aggressive female version that doesn’t tell you what it is. They don’t march into your town in jackboots and put a rifle against your face. And for sure, it’s much more straightforward.

PIERS MORGAN: And they kill you.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s a.

PIERS MORGAN: You fall off a building suddenly, oh.

TUCKER CARLSON: You kill tons of people. You kill tons of people.

PIERS MORGAN: I don’t disagree.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah, you do.

PIERS MORGAN: A lot. Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right. So let’s stop with the killing people because you kill tons of people. But as you well know, because you know the people who do it, and I do, too. No, I’m saying there’s something more offensive about an authoritarianism that will not admit what it is. So instead, people are arrested here and thrown into jail. And I’ve been to Belmarsh Prison. It’s awful.

PIERS MORGAN: I’ve been there.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s awful. But you walk in and there are all these signs about trans acceptance week it is fascism wrapped in the Human Rights Campaign rainbow logo. It’s not any different from what we were fighting against. Arresting you for saying something they don’t want.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, I certainly believe this has been my big criticism of the woke Left. I wrote this book called Woke is Dead, which is more an aspiration than a reality at the moment. But the point I was making was that the woke Left became, in the end, like the very fascist they professed to hate most. They literally behaved like fascists. Anyone that deviated from their worldview.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t want you to devalue the term.

PIERS MORGAN: No, no, I’m not. I’m just saying I’m explaining the hypocrisy of the left.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, I get it.

PIERS MORGAN: Which I think we could probably agree with, is if you start to behave like the very people you claim you hate most, you are a brazen hypocrite.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not just the left, it’s the right. Well, it is the right, unfortunately.

PIERS MORGAN: I agree. Some of the right thing as well. I agree. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, isn’t it? Wherever you see it. And I do think that this. The way I would categorize what’s happened here is successive governments, right and left, have pandered to a weird sentiment driven by very vocal but small numbers of people that we have to start getting into the suppressing free speech business. And it’s been a catastrophic failure, which has diminished this country.

The Graham Linehan Case

But why we’re beginning to see is the coming out of that. And I’ll give an example. When Graham Linehan. The comedian. Yeah, the Father Ted. Genius, right? And he decided to take on this whole trans issue head on and bit like J.K. Rowling. He got shamed, vilified, canceled. He lost everything. Lost his family, he lost his jobs. He lost everything, Became unemployable, completely canceled.

And he did some jokes on X back in April, and they were. Yeah, they were just harmless, right? He talked about a trans woman coming into a woman’s space.

TUCKER CARLSON: Harmless to you as a non trans person, but genocidal to the trans community.

PIERS MORGAN: Which again, is ridiculous. So he did a joke about a trans woman coming into a woman’s space. And he said, what, you kick him in the balls, right? It was a joke. It was a hibernuckle joke. If you’re oversensitive, you go, oh. Most people just laughed and took it for what it was. Kind of joke that wouldn’t even be considered remotely controversial ten years ago.

When he arrived at Heathrow Airport several months later, he was arrested by five armed police officers and taken off to the cells. And I just found that utterly shocking. So I’m not pretending there’s not been a massive problem about free speech. But what was interesting and encouraging was the public backlash, hence my book title, Woke is Dead.

The public backlash was so ferocious that within a week, the police said, we’re not going to prosecute Lenin. And actually, they said, further, we’re never going to prosecute anyone for this kind of thing again. That was a bug when I went, we’re finally getting a bit of.

The Trans Debate and Demographic Change

TUCKER CARLSON: But that’s not. So the trans thing is absurd. It’s so absurd that it’s easy for people to say that’s absurd. What’s actually happening here, as I think you know, is the society is being changed by its leaders against the will of the population. The population hates it. They’ve always hated it. No population wants radical demographic change. None.

And so it’s been so profound since 1997 under Tony Blair, that you’re not allowed to note that your country is being taken from you. Okay? So you can criticize trainees all you want. You cannot criticize Israel, as you know, you’re not allowed to criticize demographic change, and you can’t criticize the rest of the fabled LGBT community.

And if you don’t believe me, listen to this story, which is unbelievable. This is from the Daily Mail, which is kind of a ridiculous publication.

PIERS MORGAN: But I love the Daily Mail.

TUCKER CARLSON: I do, too. There’s a lot about it I like, but I mean, that’s absurd, but anyway. Elizabeth Kinney from Cranmere. Have you read about this? She’s a mother of four, I think she’s a nurse, and she gets beaten up by her boyfriend. He beats her up. She goes to the hospital, and she texts someone, a buddy of hers, a friend of hers, a girlfriend of hers, and describes the man who beat her up and sent her to the hospital as a, quote, “f*.”

And she’s arrested and convicted of a hate crime. The guy who beat her up is not arrested or convicted. And then she goes through this whole Kabuki, which is now required, where she prostrates herself before the judge. “I’m sorry.” It was not a homophobic rant, by the way. You’re allowed to be homophobic if you want. In a free country, you can have any view you want. But no, because she used the word f*, she’s arrested, and the guy who punched her in the face was not. That story tells you everything.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, I don’t know that story if it’s exactly.

TUCKER CARLSON: Daily Mail baby.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay?

TUCKER CARLSON: Pictures of her and everything.

PIERS MORGAN: Doubting it. I’m just saying I need to look into it. But if that is how you’ve told it, obviously it’s ridiculous.

TUCKER CARLSON: Would you say the word f* on camera? No. Why?

PIERS MORGAN: Because I…

TUCKER CARLSON: You don’t want to get arrested, do you?

PIERS MORGAN: Doesn’t want to be arrested because it’s…

TUCKER CARLSON: So harmful to people. Is that like gay bashing? What’s wrong with that?

The Limits of Language and Free Expression

PIERS MORGAN: Actually, my whole issue with the whole trans debate, for example, is you don’t need to slide into actually saying derogatory stuff about trans people to make the point that women’s rights should be protected. You don’t need to.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I agree.

PIERS MORGAN: So.

TUCKER CARLSON: So I don’t believe it’s a magic word.

PIERS MORGAN: I don’t believe in needlessly…

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not smearing anybody. I just think…

PIERS MORGAN: Would you use that word?

TUCKER CARLSON: F*? Yeah, I just did.

PIERS MORGAN: But would you?

TUCKER CARLSON: F. F.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay, but why?

TUCKER CARLSON: And I’m using it because you’re not allowed to. Because you’re allowed to. Go ahead. I don’t want to say I love gay people. F*.

PIERS MORGAN: I’m allowed to. I just choose not to.

TUCKER CARLSON: This chick just got arrested for it and convicted. So that doesn’t have a chilling effect on your ability…

PIERS MORGAN: There are people watching this who will be offended by the use of the word.

TUCKER CARLSON: Sure they will. I’m not anti-gay. I never have been. I can use any freaking word I want to use.

PIERS MORGAN: The word chick.

TUCKER CARLSON: Chick. Okay.

PIERS MORGAN: Comparing women to chick.

TUCKER CARLSON: How about this? Let my life, the way that I actually live and treat people, be the testament to my heart. That’s how I feel. Right. And if I’ve mistreated someone, I don’t…

PIERS MORGAN: I don’t believe. I don’t. You correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t believe you would call a gay person a f* to their face.

TUCKER CARLSON: Not in a mean way. By the way, the only people I ever hear use the word are gay.

PIERS MORGAN: Right? Ever.

TUCKER CARLSON: Just like the only people you ever hear use the N word are black.

PIERS MORGAN: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: Period. Right. So if you spend any time around gays, and I have spent a lot of time around gays who, of course, I work in television. I mean, half our staff was gay. And they’re great people. And they’re the only ones who ever said f. “He’s a f.” I’d be like, oh, I have no need to say the word. Actually it’s kind of an ugly word, to be totally honest.

PIERS MORGAN: You know the argument they use which is…

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, they don’t use it. They use the word constantly. I’ve worked with my whole life.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, I wrote a column for example, about the use of…

TUCKER CARLSON: But I’m not allowed to use it. But you are. I don’t play those games.

Reclaiming Words and Double Standards

PIERS MORGAN: Listen, I’m going to make a point. I wrote a column for the Mail actually about the use of the N word. And the Washington Post had a huge report on this and said that every day on Twitter, as it was then, the N word was used half a million times, but almost exclusively by young African American men. So it’s cool. Well, they would argue and I understood the argument. Yeah, it’s there. They’ve reclaimed that word.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t believe in universal rights either. I think certain standards should apply to certain people based on their blood and… but don’t apply to everybody.

PIERS MORGAN: What do you mean?

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, that’s what you’re saying.

PIERS MORGAN: No, no, you are.

TUCKER CARLSON: My standards have to be absolute. They’re not standard.

PIERS MORGAN: I was about to make my argument.

TUCKER CARLSON: Sorry, you’re getting me so wound up.

PIERS MORGAN: No, no, but I actually made the point in the column that I don’t think that works. I don’t think you reclaim it. What you actually do is you empower genuine racists to say, well, if they’re using that word, I’m going to use it. And so I felt it was entirely self-defeating reclamation of that offensive word. I would say the same to gay people if you constantly use the F word in your own…

TUCKER CARLSON: What’s the F word?

PIERS MORGAN: You know what we’ve just been saying. If you want to keep saying that, you keep saying it.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not going to keep saying worse than…

PIERS MORGAN: Isn’t it to a gay person from a straight person.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, from a straight person, but not from the gay person.

PIERS MORGAN: That’s my point. I don’t…

TUCKER CARLSON: So I thought we…

PIERS MORGAN: I understand the reclamation argument that they put up that if they… reclamation, they’re reclaiming the word and they’re disempowering it.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t care. I think that’s kind of amusing, actually.

PIERS MORGAN: I just don’t think it works. I think the more these words get used then the more…

TUCKER CARLSON: But is it really about words? I guess that’s kind of what I’m saying.

PIERS MORGAN: I think it empowers people who are genuinely racist or homophobic to then use those words.

What Really Matters

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, they’re genuinely racist, homophobic, I don’t care. Why don’t you pick up the trash? Okay? That’s kind of how I feel. And stop letting people from countries where they can’t speak English come to your country by the millions. Don’t the material things matter? Don’t the actual things matter? Your father lying on a cot in a public hospital.

PIERS MORGAN: I do think that people, when they come to a country, should try and learn the language, of course.

TUCKER CARLSON: But. No. But what? I’m not. Again, I’m not attacking anybody. I’m just saying the whole debate about what words are allowed and by whom is first of all insane. Because again, standards mean nothing unless they apply to everyone. Because we believe in human rights, not group rights or ethnic rights. We’re against that because we’re against the Nazis.

PIERS MORGAN: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: So there’s that. But it’s also a distraction from what actually matters. If your dad is spending hours… I’m sure he was a Brit, he spent his whole life here paying taxes and that’s what he gets. It’s completely unacceptable, but it is acceptable. That’s the problem. Instead we’re arresting that girl for saying…

PIERS MORGAN: Well, the two things…

TUCKER CARLSON: Or as we say here, the F word.

PIERS MORGAN: Yeah. Like I said, I don’t know that story. I’ll look into it. But I do. If that is…

TUCKER CARLSON: She looks like a user to you. She looks too nice.

PIERS MORGAN: Come on. Don’t. Behave yourself.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, I can’t.

PIERS MORGAN: I know you can’t.

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re making me want to say that because it’s so outrageous that you would arrest someone for a word.

PIERS MORGAN: I agree.

TUCKER CARLSON: And we actually have to put ourselves at risk to say I agree. Yeah, I agree with you. Well, then help me now. Let’s do… let’s have a moment of self-liberation.

PIERS MORGAN: I think you’re beyond help.

TUCKER CARLSON: Hold my hand.

PIERS MORGAN: Hold my hand.

TUCKER CARLSON: We’re going to say f* together. You ready?

PIERS MORGAN: No, we’re not.

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you say gay and retard? Do you say gay and retard?

PIERS MORGAN: I say gay. I wouldn’t use the R word. I wouldn’t. I personally wouldn’t.

TUCKER CARLSON: Are you?

PIERS MORGAN: My choice.

TUCKER CARLSON: You think it should be legal to abort a Down syndrome baby?

PIERS MORGAN: I am exercising my free speech right not to use that.

TUCKER CARLSON: I totally agree. I actually don’t use the N word ever because I think it’s ugly.

PIERS MORGAN: By your own…

Down Syndrome and Abortion

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t. I kind of agree. I’m not even… I’m mostly making fun to make a point. I actually think that we should not kill people because they have Down syndrome. I think they’re beautiful people and I think when you get to heaven, it’ll probably be filled with people with Down syndrome because they are pure in spirit and I’m not joking even a tiny bit. I really believe that.

But people who think it’s okay to genocide everyone with Down syndrome through the alpha-fetoprotein test are lecturing me because I’m using the word retard. It’s like maybe we’re missing the real argument. That’s all I’m saying. Does that make sense?

PIERS MORGAN: It does. Although I’m pro a woman’s right to choose what to do with her body.

TUCKER CARLSON: Including and bear in mind aborting someone because he’s retarded.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, in this country, to be clear, abortion’s a very settled issue.

TUCKER CARLSON: George Galloway doesn’t believe…

PIERS MORGAN: Well, no, but honestly, it’s not a contentious issue in America. I know in America it’s a ferociously contentious issue. It is simply not one in this country.

TUCKER CARLSON: Maybe that’s part of the problem.

PIERS MORGAN: I don’t think it’s a problem at all.

TUCKER CARLSON: Who’s having the abortions here?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, a lot of people have abortions here. Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s pretty overwhelmingly though, people whose grandparents lived here.

PIERS MORGAN: Have you ever noticed that these people who what?

Demographics and the Will to Live

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s the native population having the abortions. It’s not immigrants not having a ton of abortions. If you look at the numbers, I don’t know the demographic, but that’s true everywhere. And I just as a deeper issue. So what is the loss of the will to live? Why if you’re not having… and you’re a huge exception to this. I know you’ve procreated. Have I?

PIERS MORGAN: God bless us both.

TUCKER CARLSON: But a lot of native born Brits do not have many children, if any. It’s also true in the United States. It’s especially true in Canada.

The Population Crisis

PIERS MORGAN: Well, I think this is becoming a massive issue and Elon Musk has been right about this. The biggest problem is not, as we all assumed, overpopulation world, but underpopulation because a lot of people now, especially as the changing way society has gone with many more women working and so on, that the number of children that are being born actually in places like the UK and the US is reducing quite markedly projected for the next 50 years.

And you’re seeing in some countries in Asia, for example, is getting catastrophically low very fast. And this is going to be a massive South Korea. Yeah, it’s going to be huge.

TUCKER CARLSON: There will be no South Koreans. Only be North Koreans. What does that tell you?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, it’s not a good. Not a good moment.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, but where’s that? I totally agree with you and with Elon. And again, I feel like we’ve all done our part to reverse that trend, but I feel like we spend no time asking, why is this?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, don’t you think it’s as simple in most cases as the changing work practice? If you went in 1950s.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s part of it, yeah.

PIERS MORGAN: 1950s, in the UK, most women didn’t work. Now, when women go out to work a lot more, they probably don’t have the time to have three, four, five children.

TUCKER CARLSON: There’s no doubt they can’t afford it. Childcare is very expensive in the United States. It’s more expensive than, I think, any other expense. But for young people with children, of course, you’re right.

But there’s also something a little bit deeper than that. It’s like it used to be just axiomatic that reproducing was not just your duty, but your greatest joy. That was the way you create the next generation, continue your civilization. And that has died since the Second World War. And not just in the white world, but. Yeah, but that is like a profound change.

PIERS MORGAN: What is inarguable, actually. I mean, look, like I said, the population here has gone from 50 million to 70 million since the 50s. The really worrying graph is what happens in the next 50 years.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, but that growth in population has been almost exclusively from immigration and True, in the United States and Canada is just like a completely different country. Nothing like that has ever happened in the history of the world. Why is this happening?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, what, in terms of people traveling around?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, in terms of people deciding not to pass on their genes, committing mass suicide, because that’s what that is.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Our families lived in this village for 2,000, since the beginning of recorded history. In this country, unlike mine, you have a native population because no one could. You’re the Cherokee of this island.

Immigration and Cultural Change

PIERS MORGAN: Okay, I don’t give you a history lesson, but 100 years ago, you know, we. Everyone traveled by horse and car. There was no airplane. You couldn’t leave the country. You couldn’t go to other places. But rather like tribes 2,000 years ago who used to literally just sit in their little area or wherever it may be, eventually they ventured out. And so evolution.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m for that. I’m not. I would never argue against them, but once I flew here, actually.

PIERS MORGAN: Yeah, right, of course.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

PIERS MORGAN: So once you’re able to do that, obviously people are going to go exploring, they’re going to want to try and live in other places. The question then becomes how enriching or damaging or both, and in what levels is an influx of people from other ethnicities, other cultures, other countries? I would say on balance, London in particular has been almost a template, actually for tolerance and cohesion and multiculturalism at its best.

TUCKER CARLSON: The stabbings you’re talking about.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, let’s talk about the stabbings. The murder rate in London, do you know what it is compared to any major city in America? Probably much lower.

TUCKER CARLSON: I would think it’s a way lower testosterone level here. Here, I mean, you can feel it too. Yeah, that’s true every time.

PIERS MORGAN: Oh, I’m aware, I’m aware.

TUCKER CARLSON: But look, I’m not.

PIERS MORGAN: You have the worst murder rates.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I know. And by the way, we always have, which is interesting. There are a lot of factors for that and it’s one of the saddest things in my country. I would never defend the violent.

PIERS MORGAN: The murder rate in London, for example. I checked before I came and saw.

TUCKER CARLSON: You because I thought you think London’s a better city than it was 40 years ago. 50 years ago.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, statistically, the murder rate has actually been plummeting in London.

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you know anything good?

PIERS MORGAN: I’ll tell you the problem in London, what we really need in London.

TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, do you think it’s a better city than it was 40 years ago? For real? Yeah. You think Sadiq Khan’s better than what you had before?

PIERS MORGAN: I think Sadiq Khan is somebody who’s won two more terms after his first, because actually he’s not done as bad a job as people say.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, that’s the new stuff.

PIERS MORGAN: Has he done as well?

TUCKER CARLSON: No.

PIERS MORGAN: Nor has he done as good a job as he would like you to believe, but certainly in things like tackling murder, I give him credit in tackling things like the clean air where some of the boroughs here were the most polluted.

The British Economy Debate

TUCKER CARLSON: You have no factories, you don’t make anything. How? All you do is banking. How could there be dirty air? What are you even talking about? There’s no manufacturing. You lost automotive, you lost aerospace, you lost. You lost everything. Steel. It’s clean air because people are idle. They’re delivering food to people who work in banks.

PIERS MORGAN: There is. There is more. There is more traffic now in London than there was even four years ago.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m sure. Right. So called tourism.

PIERS MORGAN: So my borough, Kensington, Chelsea, for example, 1 in 12 people. There was a big study on this a few years ago, 1 in 12 people were dying from pollution related illness. Right. I had a lot of issues which I thought were allergy issues. Eventually I was told, right, here’s what you should do. Check your air quality app every morning when it’s really high. Don’t go out and shut the windows. Secondly, get air purifying machines in your house for the rooms you use. I did both. Guess what? I’ve had no problem since and I didn’t have any allergies.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well that’s amazing. Well, and all it cost was the total destruction of your economy. So. Well, why do you think there was polluted before? Because people were burning.

PIERS MORGAN: Economy is not being destroyed. We’re still one of the biggest economies in the world.

TUCKER CARLSON: What is the economy here? What’s it based on?

PIERS MORGAN: What do you mean?

TUCKER CARLSON: What’s the British economy? I say I look at the economy of, I don’t know, Wales in 1900 and it’s like it’s coal. They mines, they did coal. People burn it. That’s what their economy is. Look at the economy of Sheffield or Birmingham 100 years ago. Of course it was steelmaking. What’s the economy?

PIERS MORGAN: There’s a lot of manufacturing in the UK a little bit.

TUCKER CARLSON: But as a percentage your percentage of.

PIERS MORGAN: Manufacturing would be a lot less.

TUCKER CARLSON: A lot less. It’s almost non existent.

PIERS MORGAN: Right, so we still have one of the biggest economies in the world now.

TUCKER CARLSON: But what is that economy based on?

PIERS MORGAN: A lot of things.

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, what’s the main one?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, in the city there’s a lot of manufacturing.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s the main one.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, there’s a lot of technology stuff going on. There’s a lot of scientific stuff going on. There’s a lot of all sorts of interesting.

TUCKER CARLSON: If you haven’t, we haven’t mentioned the biggest one by far was lending money to people. It’s banking.

PIERS MORGAN: Banking? Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, we’re in the City of London right now. How many things are being made in the City of London other than debt?

PIERS MORGAN: It’s one of the financial hubs of the world. We’re right in the city here.

TUCKER CARLSON: I know we’re sitting in the City of London right now. Run by City Con. Right.

PIERS MORGAN: But again, it’s not as bad as people think.

TUCKER CARLSON: But hold on, is that really an economy? If your economy is real estate, that’s London’s other big economic center is buying and selling and leasing pieces of property again and again to different people. Nothing’s being created.

PIERS MORGAN: That’s not true. We are creating things here. A lot of things.

TUCKER CARLSON: Like what?

PIERS MORGAN: There’s a lot of money.

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, yeah, there’s a lot of. Of course there’s a lot of money. Because people from around the world stash their money here. Because it’s a system based on fairness.

PIERS MORGAN: There’s all the manufacturing. Not as much as there was 80 years.

TUCKER CARLSON: How much is in London, man? Your biggest city?

PIERS MORGAN: The dominant percentages.

TUCKER CARLSON: So we have to check pretty much. Unless you’re talking about like burritos being manufactured or whatever, I don’t think there’s really any.

PIERS MORGAN: The biggest problem for us is not what economy we’re doing, it’s how we manage the economy.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it doesn’t matter where the money comes from.

PIERS MORGAN: It does. But successive governments have dragged us to a place where we have almost zero growth. Without growth, you can’t have a successful, thriving country.

The Japan Example

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s not true. Have you been to Japan? It’s like the most successful, thriving country in the world. It has had no growth for a long. Not real growth. And we’ve gotten these lectures from the bankers for like 30 years. Japan is dying. Ever go to Japan? You get their four year old girls in the subway alone. There’s not one speck of litter in all of Tokyo. And it’s one of the biggest cities in the world. 12 million. It’s an incredible society.

It’s the opposite of New York, London, Baltimore, Detroit. It’s incredible. I know you’ve been there and I know you’ve had these naughty, forbidden thoughts like wait a second, I thought we dropped a bomb on them. How are they so great?

PIERS MORGAN: No, no, no. I like going to Tokyo.

TUCKER CARLSON: No growth. How’d they do that with no growth? I was assured by libertarian economics if we had no growth, things would be bad. Look at this.

PIERS MORGAN: I like going to Japan, but I wouldn’t swap it for London.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right, Fair. You’re. You’re English. That’s kind of the point, right? This is your homeland.

PIERS MORGAN: But I genuinely do love London.

TUCKER CARLSON: No. I bet you do.

PIERS MORGAN: When I lived in America full time, I really missed a lot of the things.

TUCKER CARLSON: I hope so this is where your ancestors are from. I get it. That’s the whole point. That’s the whole argument I’m making. It matters where you’re from. The culture really matters. It’s not about growth. It’s not about any of this crap. It’s about do.

PIERS MORGAN: What?

TUCKER CARLSON: Am I on the same page with my neighbor? Do we have something in common? Do we have the same gut instincts about things? Those are the most important questions there are.

PIERS MORGAN: But economic prosperity raises all the ships.

TUCKER CARLSON: Is that has that been true here?

PIERS MORGAN: It should be true.

TUCKER CARLSON: Is there more poverty in London now than there was 40 years ago?

PIERS MORGAN: There’s more child poverty.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, I know.

PIERS MORGAN: In fact, the child poverty rate is worse here than it is in America. A lot worse. General poverty.

TUCKER CARLSON: So how is this so great?

PIERS MORGAN: Even though they have poverty rate is actually lower than it is in America. But child poverty specifically, is there anything.

TUCKER CARLSON: That matters other than child poverty? Not really. So look, I’m not slagging on. I love your country. I really thought a lot about this since I was so mean during that conversation. I was just wounded because I feel like the destruction of Britain has effects on our entire Anglo civilization.

PIERS MORGAN: You actually look out and see a destroyed country.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, this is beautiful. I mean this is, again, this is the rich part of town.

PIERS MORGAN: I could take you to Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Cardiff. I could take you to.

TUCKER CARLSON: How they doing?

PIERS MORGAN: They’re all doing great. Much better than you think, honestly. Tokyo, you’ll walk around, you’ll see the pubs packed, the restaurants packed, the theaters packed. You’ll see people having a great time. Go out on a Friday night in London. Go to the Devonshire in Soho, the best Irish pub in town. Four deep in the streets, everyone having a great time. 20,000 pints of Guinness being sold every week.

TUCKER CARLSON: I could say that there are so many things about London I really like. I’ve been here three days again, visiting.

PIERS MORGAN: Relatives, genuinely threatened, Walking around.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, not at all. Again. Who’s going to do anything? Pakistanis are all super nice to me and the whites are all kind of craving and sad. No, you’re totally safe here, man. It’s not that at all. It’s just that it’s dirty.

PIERS MORGAN: It’s what?

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s dirty. Come on.

PIERS MORGAN: American cities aren’t any cleaner than London.

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re dirtier. They’re dirtier. And it’s one of the great tragedies. And I can’t get anyone to care.

PIERS MORGAN: I agree.

TUCKER CARLSON: Nobody cares.

PIERS MORGAN: I agree.

Self-Respect and Cultural Standards

TUCKER CARLSON: So that to me, if I went to your bedroom right now, I’m sorry, I’m not going. I’m not going. Especially after the whole f* thing. It’s like, I got it, I got it, I got it. And you said you were so liberal.

But if I went to your house unannounced, I bet I would find it tidy and clean. And I bet I would find that it’s because you have a housekeeper. I don’t even know if you do, but because you care, because you have self respect, right? That’s why you shave.

PIERS MORGAN: But I agree with that part, I think the self respect part, I totally agree with you. We’ve lost that. We’ve lost the. I think the British were legendary for our politeness, our manners. Yes, that has gone. We’ve really.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s everything.

PIERS MORGAN: No, but I totally agree with you. So when you talk about the cultural stuff that I really regret that has gone out of fashion, if you like. It is things like that. It’s things like, a British person used to speak well and open doors for women and things like that. Now that’s frowned upon. Right. The kind of screaming radical feminists have made it almost a taboo thing.

Young men in particular do not know how to behave. When I’m out with them, I notice they don’t stand up when women walk into a room or to a table. They don’t open doors for them and stuff because they’ve been conditioned to think this might be toxic masculinity and all this. That kind of stuff really worries me.

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you ever wonder where it comes from? Because I know the answer. But I’m only.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, you’re going to say it’s multiculturalism, but a lot of the other cultures that come here actually have far more politeness. I agree in that.

TUCKER CARLSON: I agree completely.

PIERS MORGAN: So that’s the.

Immigration and Cultural Change

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, that’s exactly my point is that the cost is to the invaded. You’re being invaded. You already said there are boats showing up uninvited. That’s called an invasion. It’s happened a lot through history and it’s the people who are conquered who are vanquished, who suffer. The immigrants all seem kind of happy. It’s better than Bangalore, or.

PIERS MORGAN: Wherever you are, though.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, people are showing up in boats in your country. No, I don’t know what to do about them. Well, how about sink them?

PIERS MORGAN: You really think to put it in. To put it in perspective, Lord Nelson would put up. Put it in perspective. For the last five years, we’ve had about 200,000 people come over our southern border in the last five years in America, until Donald Trump got a grip of it. You have apparently 10 million come over the southern border.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, more.

PIERS MORGAN: Right. So I’m afraid there is no comparison. We have a little problem. You had a gigantic problem.

TUCKER CARLSON: Let me add an amen, as we say in the Black Church. I totally agree. And that’s why Britain is so interesting, because for two reasons. One, the people who are being invaded and replaced are the native population. They’re the Iroquois of the British Isles. They’ve been here forever. Their ancestors bones Were at Stonehenge. There’s no debate about that, though. They pretend otherwise, but that’s just a fact.

So eliminating indigenous populations is, kind of a sin, I thought. But it’s happening here and in Ireland and in Scotland and in Wales.

PIERS MORGAN: Hang on. They’re not being eliminated.

TUCKER CARLSON: Of course they are. Look at the birth rates. What are their birth rates?

PIERS MORGAN: It’s not an elimination.

TUCKER CARLSON: Of course it is. Over time it is.

PIERS MORGAN: That is people taking a decision about their own lives and not having enough children or as many as they used to have. Well, it’s elimination. No one’s forcing them.

TUCKER CARLSON: No.

PIERS MORGAN: No one’s telling the white population of this country you can’t have more than one child.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s kind of the point that I’m making.

Birth Rates and Social Engineering

TUCKER CARLSON: If. Well, whatever they’re doing, I mean, they’re certainly encouraging. They’re aggressively encouraging homosexuality. Use the F word and you go to jail. No. What is that? If you want to know who’s in charge, who can’t you criticize? You can’t use the word f*. What?

PIERS MORGAN: No one’s aggressively encouraging jail for using.

TUCKER CARLSON: A naughty word about gays. Dude, they’re not encouraging it. What do you think that is?

PIERS MORGAN: What’s wrong with homosexuality?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, if you encourage it and the rate goes up, people have fewer kids. I don’t know. You. Did you do biology?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, no.

TUCKER CARLSON: So just to be clear, the rate.

PIERS MORGAN: Gay people don’t have kids.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s the point I’m making. So if all of a sudden you have more people being gay, which you do. A what?

PIERS MORGAN: No, you don’t. People don’t pretend to be gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you have the Internet?

PIERS MORGAN: Huh?

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know. I’m not saying they’re pretending. I’m saying you’ve got way more.

PIERS MORGAN: You’re gay, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, we used to say that, but.

PIERS MORGAN: Yeah, I think so.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I used to think that, but all of a sudden you’re.

PIERS MORGAN: I think lots of people putting their hand up saying they’re trans. That’s a different issue. Oh, it’s totally different.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not part of the continuum. It’s not like gender isn’t real. I can pretend.

PIERS MORGAN: But if you’re gay, you’re gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, we were told that, and I believed a lot of things.

PIERS MORGAN: Do you not believe that?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s demonstrably not true because science tells us.

PIERS MORGAN: Making it up.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t think they’re making it up at all.

PIERS MORGAN: So what’s your point?

TUCKER CARLSON: I think that you can be moved in that direction through propaganda and pornography.

PIERS MORGAN: Oh, come on.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well then, then, then how do you explain.

PIERS MORGAN: Is there anything that would make.

TUCKER CARLSON: Hold on.

PIERS MORGAN: Could I make you gay?

TUCKER CARLSON: How hard do you want to try?

PIERS MORGAN: Not hard, I can tell you.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s the spirit, Pierce. There’s a limit. Even an open minded man like you, you kind of hate the gay.

PIERS MORGAN: Could I make you.

TUCKER CARLSON: I make a little gay joke and you’re like, oh, I’m not going to be gay.

PIERS MORGAN: Oh no. Why are you using a gay slur? That’s fine.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, first of all, it. The context matters, as I’ve told you. I mean that’s like coffee table conversation between the gays. I work with that fox. So if it’s okay with them, it’s okay with me. It’s just, it’s sort of like, it’s sort of like racism.

PIERS MORGAN: Only the white people could be persuaded to be gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well then why don’t you explain the twofold or threefold increase in self identified homosexuals in the United States.

PIERS MORGAN: They used to be repressed. It used to be illegal country. Till the mid-1960s. You literally went to jail.

TUCKER CARLSON: So all three.

PIERS MORGAN: Hang on. You literally were put in a prison cell if you were openly homicide.

TUCKER CARLSON: That was more here actually. You guys did Oscar Wilde. We didn’t.

PIERS MORGAN: But you also shocking.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, it was terrible. You ruled the world at the time and now you’re a joke. Dependent on foreign owned banks. But everyone’s gay, so it’s like a great trade.

PIERS MORGAN: So allowing, allowing gay people to be openly gay is why we recognize masculinity.

Masculinity and Cultural Identity

TUCKER CARLSON: Is the fastest way to servitude any Pakistani. That’s why I like the Pakistan. You talk to a Pakistani cab driver and you’re like, “why are you gay?” And they will start laughing because they’ve watched the video and they’re like, “I’m not gay, I’m a man.” Ask a single Britain, “why are you gay?” They’re like, “well, I’m not gay, but it would be okay if I was.” And it’s like there’s no masculine self respect at all.

PIERS MORGAN: You’re sounding quite homophobic.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not afraid of gays at all. I’m just asking.

PIERS MORGAN: Actually, we don’t actually think they really exist by the sound of it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, they exist.

PIERS MORGAN: Are they real? Is their sexuality genuinely.

TUCKER CARLSON: Are they sleeping with dudes? Yeah, big time.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, and women? Are they attracted to members?

TUCKER CARLSON: The lesbian thing is way overblown.

PIERS MORGAN: Actually, there are a lot of lesbians.

TUCKER CARLSON: How many?

PIERS MORGAN: I haven’t counted in a previous conversation, not recently.

TUCKER CARLSON: This is so great. You’re going to get so arrested after this.

PIERS MORGAN: Going to be unbelievable. No one’s arresting me.

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay?

PIERS MORGAN: No one’s arresting me. But I’m just curious whether you think the gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Let me, let me, let me, let me.

PIERS MORGAN: Actually are gay or whether you think they’ve been somehow turned for the third time.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think it’s completely sincere. Completely sincere. The question. Not taking a problem with it. I’m merely saying you get fewer children where more people are gay.

PIERS MORGAN: No, you don’t.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, actually you do.

PIERS MORGAN: People aren’t gay. Just more people are.

TUCKER CARLSON: You don’t get gay. Hold on. You don’t get fewer gay people. Stop.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Was it like 30% of the population always like in Roman times for about 30%, would you say?

PIERS MORGAN: I’m just saying.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, it was like, this is.

PIERS MORGAN: The falling birth rates have nothing to do with.

TUCKER CARLSON: If you have more people. If you have more gays, do you have fewer children?

PIERS MORGAN: We don’t have more gays.

TUCKER CARLSON: We’ve got way more games.

PIERS MORGAN: No, no. We have more people who are not afraid to say they’re gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re letting their freak flag fly.

PIERS MORGAN: They are actually gay, Tucker. They just haven’t been able to admit it.

TUCKER CARLSON: So why isn’t that the case? Like in Asia?

PIERS MORGAN: What you mean?

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t think. There’s no Asian country and they’re not all like putting gays in jail. Malaysia might be. Korea’s not South Korea.

PIERS MORGAN: Why?

TUCKER CARLSON: Why is their self described homosexuality rate so much lower than yours? Japan same.

PIERS MORGAN: Because culturally it is not a thing.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it’s genetic. You think it’s genetic?

PIERS MORGAN: It’s cultural.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, no. People become gay.

PIERS MORGAN: The last World Cup.

TUCKER CARLSON: How do people become gay?

PIERS MORGAN: Let me give you. The World Cup is coming.

TUCKER CARLSON: We’re talking about soccer.

PIERS MORGAN: I’m telling you why.

TUCKER CARLSON: We’re talking about the gay thing.

PIERS MORGAN: I’m telling you why.

TUCKER CARLSON: How they become gay. Why are you gay?

PIERS MORGAN: One in four countries in the last World Cup actually outlaw being homosexual. It’s criminal offense. Do you think that’s right?

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t care.

PIERS MORGAN: We should care, okay?

TUCKER CARLSON: I really care. You’ve got people arrested for using the word f*. That’s who I feel sorry for, this chick from Britain.

PIERS MORGAN: So do you, right? So you feel very exercised about that.

TUCKER CARLSON: She’s in Great Britain. She’s not in some primitive theocracy.

PIERS MORGAN: Are you not as exercised about people being arrested and putting in prison cell for their sexuality? If they’re gay, why don’t you feel as angry about that?

TUCKER CARLSON: Because it’s not my culture, it’s not my country.

PIERS MORGAN: Come on.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not for arresting any. I’m for arresting.

PIERS MORGAN: Very few people should be arrested for their sexuality.

TUCKER CARLSON: Of course not.

PIERS MORGAN: You agree with me.

The Origins of Homosexuality

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, I will not. As also a talk show host, you’re not going to get me off my path and my path leads to this question. How do people become gay? Why?

PIERS MORGAN: They don’t become gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: What? Are they born gay? Yes. How does that work?

PIERS MORGAN: They’re born gay. They have a sexual attraction.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, I understand. The manifestations. The symptoms.

PIERS MORGAN: The symptoms.

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re the symptoms. The symptoms. My symptoms of my.

PIERS MORGAN: They’re born gay. Okay, so that means that you may not want to. No, no, that means that.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, no. I’m just asking how it works. So there’s a gay gene.

PIERS MORGAN: You said you worked with lots of gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Hold on, hold on.

PIERS MORGAN: There’s a gay garden conversation with actual gay people.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. A lot of them say I got molested. That’s why I’m gay. In fact, a really good friend of mine who’s gay, so I got molested. That’s why I’m gay.

PIERS MORGAN: Gay people are gay because they got molested?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, I don’t think that. But I am wondering. I don’t know the answer, but I was.

PIERS MORGAN: I would say the absolute gay people are gay because they are actually attracted to members of their own sex.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, but again that’s a manifestation.

PIERS MORGAN: That’s a natural thing.

TUCKER CARLSON: You’re not. Let’s just do signs for 30 seconds. Of course you’re right. That’s the definition of gay. I’m attracted to someone of my sex.

PIERS MORGAN: You believe that?

TUCKER CARLSON: Do I believe they’re attracted to people from their own sex?

PIERS MORGAN: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, obviously they have sex with them.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that’s what attracts.

PIERS MORGAN: What’s the big deal? Why’d you care?

TUCKER CARLSON: My question. Because the self-reported incidence of it has risen. So we were told 30 years ago. And I have a good memory, it’s about 10%. But the actual self-reported rates.

PIERS MORGAN: People would be mercilessly.

TUCKER CARLSON: Listen, listen, listen, listen.

PIERS MORGAN: Then.

TUCKER CARLSON: But the self-reported rate was like 5%. Then it’s 10%, now it’s like 30%. So my question is, were they all born that way? 30% of a population is born homosexual as an evolutionary matter. You tell me how that works.

PIERS MORGAN: How do you reproduce 30% of the.

TUCKER CARLSON: Population in the United States? In a lot of places it is 30%.

PIERS MORGAN: Not 30%.

TUCKER CARLSON: Way higher here, based on the vibe.

PIERS MORGAN: What is way higher is the number of people compared to.

TUCKER CARLSON: But where does it come from 30 years ago, is it genetic? And where’s the gene?

PIERS MORGAN: 30 years ago, gay people were persecuted.

TUCKER CARLSON: I know, I’ve heard the story.

PIERS MORGAN: No, they were.

TUCKER CARLSON: We were commemorating Stonewall the other day at my house. You know, I’m on board with all of this stuff. Yeah, the candlelight vigil. We always do it. Every year, every February 9th, I arrest my kids in this kind of mock Stonewall thing.

PIERS MORGAN: What would you do if one of.

TUCKER CARLSON: They say, I just want to be free, and then I unlock the hangouts.

PIERS MORGAN: What happens if one of your kids says they’re gay?

TUCKER CARLSON: I love my kids no matter what. I love my kids no matter what they did. They’re my children.

PIERS MORGAN: Do you think someone had turned them into a gay person or would you accept them as an example?

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m a journalist, so I actually want to know what the real answer is, not the bullshit propaganda answer. What would you say to them? I don’t know if that’s why I’m asking you. You say people are born gay. You don’t want to answer because you don’t have an answer, because you know that your answer’s bullshit.

PIERS MORGAN: No, my answer’s correct, that they’re born that way. They’re born gay.

The Search for the Gay Gene

TUCKER CARLSON: Then is there a gene for it? And you know there isn’t. So tell me a gene. It’s the code that determines your physical and emotional characteristics. You have blue eyes because you have a gene for blue eyes, right? If someone is gay, then there should be a gene that we can isolate and say it’s the gay gene. And science have been looking for the gay gene for a long time. And my question is where? I’m waiting on my gay gene. I ordered a gay gene and it hasn’t arrived. Where’s my gay gene supposed to be.

PIERS MORGAN: Like you might be?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I’m waiting for my gay gene. And if there isn’t a gay gene that is totally within balance, it’s not homophobia, it’s not hate. I don’t want to arrest people in Liberia or whatever the hell you’re talking about. I just want to know what is this? And no one will answer the question. And I don’t know why. It’s weird, right? Why can’t we have a non-emotional conversation with why are you gay? As they say in Nigeria, why are you gay? And no one will answer it.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, in Nigeria, it’s a criminal offense to be gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know.

PIERS MORGAN: You think there aren’t gay people in Nigeria?

TUCKER CARLSON: I haven’t been there in a while.

PIERS MORGAN: Of course there are gay people in Nigeria.

TUCKER CARLSON: Where does it come from?

PIERS MORGAN: But they can’t admit.

TUCKER CARLSON: And you can’t answer the question.

PIERS MORGAN: If they admit they’re gay, they get put in prison. That can’t be right. Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: You’re a guy putting someone in prison because he says he’s gay. Of course I’m against that. I mean, please.

PIERS MORGAN: Because he says he’s gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: But the point is, in extreme third world, you guys don’t bring Nigerians here, do you?

PIERS MORGAN: There was a lot of Nigerians here.

TUCKER CARLSON: What, you import gay haters into your country? I thought you were for the gays. No, I’m serious. Why would you import. You’re just telling me that the Nigerians are bad. You said you basically hate Nigerians.

PIERS MORGAN: Lots of countries around the world with different laws to hear different.

TUCKER CARLSON: But why would you import them? If you love the gays, why would you import people?

PIERS MORGAN: Because when they come here, they have to abide by our laws. That’s how it works.

TUCKER CARLSON: And your values? So what are those values?

PIERS MORGAN: No, actually, you don’t have to come here with our values.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh.

PIERS MORGAN: You have to come here and abide by our laws.

TUCKER CARLSON: And your laws include not using the word that’s against the law. I just think.

PIERS MORGAN: Why would you do that and just be offensive for the sake of it?

TUCKER CARLSON: I totally agree with you. I never use that word. I’m just being honest. I never use that word ever. I think it’s maybe the first time I used it since the 1980s. But it’s not a matter of custom, it’s a matter of law. Because this woman, mother of four, wind up in prison for it. So if that’s going to be the law, it’s obviously like the most important. It’s so important to you that people not insult gays in any way. You can insult straights, you can insult.

PIERS MORGAN: Gays as much as you like.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, no, you can’t. You get arrested.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, I don’t know that. So I’m going to look into it. But as I said to you, I’m.

TUCKER CARLSON: Going to hand it to you right here. Here it is.

PIERS MORGAN: I don’t think people should be arrested for using words like that. I agree.

TUCKER CARLSON: There should be social disapproval.

PIERS MORGAN: You should be allowed to be hateful under freedom of speech.

TUCKER CARLSON: Amen. I totally agree.

PIERS MORGAN: You know, if you’re not actually inciting violence against people, which is a different thing.

TUCKER CARLSON: I agree.

PIERS MORGAN: We should agree. If I say go and stab Tucker Carlson and he’s staying at this hotel right now. I agree it’s a criminal offense.

TUCKER CARLSON: Totally.

PIERS MORGAN: There’s already a law and statute in both our countries for that.

Freedom of Speech and Expression

TUCKER CARLSON: So I can tell that we were both born in the 1960s because we totally agree on the underlying human right, which is the core human right, which is the right to conscience and self-expression. And both of us are on exactly the same page. Where I lose you is your whole world is crumbling around you. I’m worried that’s going to happen in my country, which is why I’m hassling you.

PIERS MORGAN: My whole world’s great. In fact, it couldn’t be better.

TUCKER CARLSON: The restaurants are better. I totally get it. And that’s what matters.

PIERS MORGAN: If I’d known you were in town yesterday, I’d have taken you to the Emirates Stadium to watch my football team, Arsenal, beat our North London rivals. It was the most joyous, magnificent experience imaginable. You would have seen a multicultural crowd as one.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s incredible.

PIERS MORGAN: Jews, Muslims, white, black, gay, straight, all joined as one. As Arsenal fans.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s what the church used to be. Except they charge you admission. I get it. I know what Brenton Circus used to.

PIERS MORGAN: Charge you admission in the old. Well, we, we.

TUCKER CARLSON: We had Martin Luther for that and we couldn’t fix them. And Henry VIII played along, so God bless you for that. But here’s the point.

PIERS MORGAN: No, but here’s my point. If I took you to the Devonshire for a pint of Guinness, you’d love it if I took you to Arsenal to a massive multicolored fans. You’d love it. 60,000 people, no trouble, no aggravation.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m here voluntarily. I love it. I just don’t want it to evaporate.

PIERS MORGAN: It’s not evaporating. Okay, we have.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why aren’t you more panicked that thousands of people? Thousands, by their own admission. The admission of the British government. Arrested every year for saying words, not threats.

PIERS MORGAN: Words I am, I’ve expressed.

TUCKER CARLSON: So why doesn’t someone try to overthrow the government? I don’t understand.

PIERS MORGAN: How can they treat you like slaves down that road?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, they are carrying it out as thousands a year and it’s getting more.

PIERS MORGAN: And they will be voted out of office. Yes.

The Poland Debate

TUCKER CARLSON: Is that what Winston Churchill would say? I think Winston Churchill said, even if a strong man tries to take Poland, a country we’ve got nothing to do with, it’s not even close to here, we’re going to risk the lives of our citizens to liberate Poland.

PIERS MORGAN: Poland is closer to here than your home is to New York.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, that’s true. That’s true.

PIERS MORGAN: So it’s all relative.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s a tiny little Lego Europe. I get it.

PIERS MORGAN: If Maine got attacked, would you expect people in New York to help you?

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s the same country.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay, but you’re actually kind of a big distinction.

TUCKER CARLSON: My country is quite large.

PIERS MORGAN: We were part of Europe. The same continent you were not part of.

TUCKER CARLSON: I call on that.

PIERS MORGAN: Really?

TUCKER CARLSON: In 1940, you were not part of…

PIERS MORGAN: You don’t think? Well, of course.

TUCKER CARLSON: You were definitely not part.

PIERS MORGAN: On the continent of Europe.

TUCKER CARLSON: You are not on the continent. You’re an island, dude, off the continent, separated by a body of water. Do you know what it’s called between you and France? It’s called the English Channel.

PIERS MORGAN: I know what…

TUCKER CARLSON: You are not part of Europe. That is not true. My ancestors lived here. You are not part of… You were England, part of Europe. France was considered exotic and crazy. That’s where the prostitutes and the cheese eaters lived. It’s only the brainwashing of Tony Blair and all these technocrats since who convinced you European. You’re way better than European. You’re an ancient Germanic Celtic people who ruled the world. You remember that in your wooden ships. Anyway, but the point is. The point, seriously.

PIERS MORGAN: They sold some crap sometimes.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, it’s… Anyways, it’s totally real. With the mast from Maine. White pines. But the point is, your country went to war to preserve human rights in another country you had nothing to do with. But human rights are evaporating in your own country. And it’s cool because you have soccer games with foreigners at them and good burrata.

PIERS MORGAN: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: And I’m just saying maybe something about the heroic British spirit has been diminished with time. That’s the one thing.

Tommy Robinson and Civil Unrest

PIERS MORGAN: But there’s a very lovely, quaint notion being built up in the United States driven by people like Tommy Robinson here.

TUCKER CARLSON: Who’s Tommy Robinson?

PIERS MORGAN: You know Tommy Robinson?

TUCKER CARLSON: He seems like a fraud to me.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, he’s not even Tommy Robinson. His name’s Stephen Yaxley. It’s not even his real name. He’s also convicted of multiple crimes. Thuggery, fraud.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t even know anything about him, but he doesn’t seem like he’s back.

PIERS MORGAN: We would call him a little shit stirrer. Right. However, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: The real people here, the actual Britain.

PIERS MORGAN: So this idea that he’s driven, that we’re on the verge of some sort of civil war here. Do you feel that when you walk around?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, because that’s my point. You’re so passive. They take your human rights away and you’re like, oh, defending Ukraine is so important. We’re so proud to have defended Poland’s territorial integrity 80 years ago. It’s like, great. I’m so glad.

PIERS MORGAN: I’m very proud of that, apparently.

TUCKER CARLSON: But it’s all a kind of displacement where you’re taking your own frustrations with yourselves and your own cowardice and sort of living in this Walter Mitty world. No, actually we’re brave. We’re going to defend Ukraine. It’s like, what about defend yourselves against the monsters from defending Ukraine? It’s like eighth on the list. Defend yourself, defend your human rights. They can’t put you in jail for saying naughty words, period.

PIERS MORGAN: I agree.

TUCKER CARLSON: So march on the Capitol. Get these people out. Scare them. Yeah, do to them what you did to the Germans in Poland, which you would like to do to the Russians in Ukraine.

Democracy and Immigration

PIERS MORGAN: We are a democratic society with a democratic government.

TUCKER CARLSON: How is it democratic?

PIERS MORGAN: Nobody wants when the government overreaches. And I think on free speech they’ve lost the plot. If they do, they will get, I can guarantee you, voted out.

TUCKER CARLSON: When was the last time Britain’s voted for millions of foreigners to come to their country?

PIERS MORGAN: Well, you don’t. You vote for a government.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you don’t ever vote for that. So the biggest thing that ever happened in your history, nobody voted for people.

PIERS MORGAN: Flag up what their policies are going to be. But actually what it’s been is a systematic failure to control our borders. Going back, I would say 25 years. That’s really what’s happened.

TUCKER CARLSON: Just all I’m saying is it doesn’t seem democratic. It doesn’t seem that’s what the people want at all.

PIERS MORGAN: I agree. It’s now become a massive issue. And the big issue actually is because they put a lot of these so-called asylum seekers, and many of them are not the economic seekers who want a better life here. I don’t blame them. It’s a great country to come to. But a lot of them are being put in really nice quality hotels. And while they’re being processed sometimes for two years, three years, they’re living a very comfortable, luxurious life in neighborhoods where there is real abject poverty.

And that is what is causing a lot of unrest. And I get that. And I have great sympathy with the people who live in those areas who are really struggling to feed their kids, who are seeing these people coming in on the boats illegally and being put in fancy hotels. That has to stop. And you also have to process these people a lot quicker for their sake and for the country’s. Are you a genuine asylum seeker? I never want this country to be a place that rejects genuine asylum. See, why? Well, because actually I believe that we have a duty to take care of people who are genuinely…

TUCKER CARLSON: How about your own people?

PIERS MORGAN: What about fleeing war torn countries where we started the war?

TUCKER CARLSON: What about people stop starting wars. You’re doing it again.

PIERS MORGAN: Okay, but one of us opposed the Iraq war at the time and it wasn’t you.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve been atoning for it ever since. I was one of the worst.

PIERS MORGAN: I had to campaign here against the Iraq war. Cost me my job. In the end, I led the…

TUCKER CARLSON: Good for you.

PIERS MORGAN: I led a front page assault on that.

TUCKER CARLSON: You should stick with that. You should stick with that.

PIERS MORGAN: I take a lot of… I like to look at each war in isolation. I get it.

Wrapping Up

TUCKER CARLSON: I get it. Piers Morgan. I know you’ve got a job. You’ve been so gracious in defending your country.

PIERS MORGAN: By the way, I meant to start with this. Until today, I had no idea that you appeared on Dancing with the Stars.

TUCKER CARLSON: I didn’t. That’s AI.

PIERS MORGAN: Somebody tweeted the clip today with two friends of mine. Len Goodman, sadly no longer with us. Bruno Tonioli ripping you a new one.

TUCKER CARLSON: Of course. I don’t really think their attacks had much to do with my appearance.

PIERS MORGAN: You are many stars.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m just suspecting.

PIERS MORGAN: Well, you are many. Well, I’ve got to be. There was a point you didn’t really do much dancing. And as Bruno put it, the problem started when you actually danced. You know, honestly, has your dancing improved?

TUCKER CARLSON: My dancing is pretty good. I have a little trouble taking instruction. But you know, I would just say what they always say when the nude pictures of the porno tape emerge years later. I was young and I needed the money. Okay. Piers Morgan, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for spending all this time.

PIERS MORGAN: Welcome to…

TUCKER CARLSON: Great to see you. It is. It is a lovely country. Actually. I just have to say that.

PIERS MORGAN: Go another walk out. Go and have a pint in the Devonshire. I’ll take you to the next game. You’ll love it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Thank you.

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