Erika Kirk’s Interview on The Megyn Kelly Show (Transcript)

There you go. Happy birthday to you.

MEGYN KELLY: Thank you.

ERIKA KIRK: This is our birthday celebration together. You guys are all just happening to be here while we have coffee. But every day is different.

MEGYN KELLY: Let’s sing Happy Birthday. We sang to you last night.

ERIKA KIRK: I saw that. That was so sweet.

MEGYN KELLY: Why not?

ERIKA KIRK: May we? Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear God. Happy birthday to you. Many more, many more. I told myself I wasn’t going to cry. Hard not to.

The Season of Firsts

MEGYN KELLY: So this was the first one. And you’re right, the first. And we’re about to go into a season of firsts, which is always challenging.

ERIKA KIRK: And I know you can relate to this because you lost your father at a really young age. Every day is different. But I am so grateful that my husband, he’s hand selected the village that surrounds me now. He built Turning Point USA. Yes. And it’s a machine. Yes. But he hand picked all of the people that not only run the organization, but that were within our orbit, our closest orbit.

The people that he loved and he trusted so much and that he knew without a shadow of a doubt if something happened to him, that they would step up and they would be filled with the Holy Spirit and they would do what he knew they were born to do. And they wouldn’t be afraid, they wouldn’t cower. They would take on the mission that he had instilled in them.

And so to be able to have that chosen family in that village that he helped literally hand pick, I could not do a fraction of a fraction.

MEGYN KELLY: They’ve been amazing. Turning Point is in such good hands. Obviously, with you as the CEO, but the team that you have around you, all of whom I’ve met, are good and decent and loving people who adored Charlie. They loved him.

ERIKA KIRK: Loved him.

Getting to Know Erika Kirk

MEGYN KELLY: Let’s go back before we get into your relationship with him and your future, to you. Because I think people are very curious about you. I think they want to know more about you. So I know that obviously you were Miss Arizona. Hello.

Nicely done. Very, very top collection. And that you were a businesswoman in New York when you first got interested in Turning Point. So what were you doing in New York?

ERIKA KIRK: So to go back a little bit further, I mean, right now, first and foremost, I’m a daughter to the king, to the most high. That’s the most important title, if you will. And my husband, in August, before all this happened, he had an event where he had some donors at and one of the first questions they asked was, “God forbid if something happens to you, like what would happen next to Turning Point?”

And Charlie made a really interesting point. He said, “Companies, example, Apple Macintosh, they’re founder led.” He said, “But what I have built is will one day, if I’m not around, be vision led.” And he had made mention at the end, “Erika will do a great job running it.”

And when I watched that video this week, it really put into perspective my youth and what I went through growing up and what I witnessed. My mom having her own company and being a single mother and watching her be the blueprint of, I’m not afraid of raising my children alone because I saw my mom do that. I’m not afraid of being a CEO because I saw my mom do that.

The only thing that I fear to be fully transparent with you is being out of the alignment of God’s will, because I feel like that is a very dangerous position to be in.

And so for me, growing up, when I was in New York, it was one of those moments where I really trusted God. That’s where I needed to be. I prayed on it at first because originally I was living in LA and I said, “Lord, if this is where you need me to be, make it so clear.”

Bought a one way ticket to New York, one suitcase. My mom was like, “What are you going to do when you’re there?” I was like, “I’ll figure it out once I get there. I just know that’s where the Lord needs me.”

And so many people questioned that. They said, “You’re such a strong Christian, why would you go to such a dark city?” And I said, “The more that you take the light out of a dark place, the darker it gets. So that’s where I’m going.” And I was there and yeah, but…

MEGYN KELLY: When I moved to New York, my brother said, “Why would you want to move to New York?” And I said, “It’s the big city of dreams.” And he said, “Scary, nasty. Wake up in the middle of the night screaming dreams.” So I get it.

Meeting Charlie Kirk

MEGYN KELLY: So you were working in New York for a while and then you went back to Arizona to apply for the Turning Point job.

ERIKA KIRK: So I was in New York. I was casting director. I was signed with a modeling agency. I had just gotten my real estate license three months prior to meeting Charlie and rewind a little bit. I went to Turning Point’s office opening for their first building. And Tyler runs Turning Point Action now. And he said, “You need to meet the CEO.” I said, “Okay, great.”

Met him very quickly, shook his hand, said, “Hi, nice to meet you.” Neither of us thought anything of it. Looking back now, he apparently sat down with Tyler and said, “We need to hire…” or Tyler said, “We need to hire her.” And he goes, “Mm.” Then he’s like, “Where she lives?” And Tyler said, “New York.” He’s like, “Okay, I’m going to have a Fox News hit, and then I’m going to sit down with her and interview her in New York.”

So lo and behold, he comes to Manhattan. And I thought I was so career minded. My mother raised me to, and this is why I can relate a lot to the Manhattan mindset of a lot of young women, where it’s career oriented because my mom used to tell me, “Don’t feel like you need to rely on a man for life and work.”

And so my mindset, my healthy marriage example was my grandparents, but my mindset was career, career, career. When I met Charlie, the only reason I sat down with him because I thought it was a consulting position for work. I was not thinking. I did not date in Manhattan. I saw the pits of hell of the dating pool through my roommates. And I was not touching that with any longest pole you can imagine. I stayed far away from the dating pool in Manhattan.

So I viewed it as obviously the job interview that it was supposed to be. And the Lord knew I just, Charlie, in some way similar to how he sees things in a lot of people in some way, beautifully saved me from a huge mistake of putting career over family and career over husband because it’s easy to do when, as a female, when you see bright lights, big city. But he, the Lord used him. The Lord used him.

Falling in Love

MEGYN KELLY: How long did it take you to fall in love with him?

ERIKA KIRK: That’s the funny thing is it was, it’s so interesting because when we were sitting there, I fell in love with how brilliant he was. To be able to articulate what he believed in. And when he said, “I’m not going to hire you, I’m going to date you,” I knew that was the Lord, because there were so many times where I said, “My future husband, that’s out there, he will literally, it will be, the only reason why I look up is because the Lord says to look up.”

And that was something to look up to when someone’s like, “I’m going to date you.” And so I just, but honestly, it was the constant consistency of “I’m here for you,” the little texts in the morning, and then it just continued to grow a beautiful way. So, yes. Love at first sight. Yes, obviously. But again, my mindset wasn’t there.

MEGYN KELLY: His was.

ERIKA KIRK: So you think of it. You’re in an interview. You have to totally do a 180 of a mindset. But honestly, where the depths of the love started was when we were playing basketball together at the gym, just shooting around together.

MEGYN KELLY: By the time we saw that video where he introduced you as his fiancée and the two of you were staring at each other.

ERIKA KIRK: Oh, I was obsessed. I’m still obsessed …

MEGYN KELLY: With break your gaze. I mean, that’s, I think, as the kids would say, hashtag goals for virtually everybody who wants love in their life. So you did get married.

ERIKA KIRK: Yes.

Family and Future

MEGYN KELLY: You have two kids, two precious babies, and you told me this in private, but how many kids did you guys want to have?

ERIKA KIRK: We wanted to have four. Yeah. And I was praying to God that I was pregnant when he got murdered.

MEGYN KELLY: Oh, wow. I thought of that once. Just like, whether it was meant to be or whether we’d get news like that.

ERIKA KIRK: I was like, “Oh, goodness, that would be the ultimate blessing out of this catastrophe.” So now when I see young couples, I tell them, “Please don’t put it off. Especially if you’re a young woman, don’t put it off. You can always have a career. You can always go back to work. You can never just go back to having children.”

And they grow so fast and so quickly. But I just, I was praying. Both of us were. We were really excited to just experience and our family.

MEGYN KELLY: Thank God you have the two. I know, thank God. Girls, I know one day they’ll find out. Right now they’re just little loves, and one day they’ll find out that they’re Charlie Kirk’s children, and they’ll know what that means.

ERIKA KIRK: You know?

Living Without Fear

MEGYN KELLY: So I wanted to ask you, Erika, because you are so faithful, whether you had any premonition that something was going to happen to Charlie. I really do see you as connected, more so than the average, than the rest of us, to God. And I just wondered, do you have any sort of a feeling?

ERIKA KIRK: We always, we, see, the thing is that I guess we just operate differently. We always knew there were threats. We always knew that there were people out there that hated us with deep, deep passion of hate. But it didn’t scare us. Never. He was never afraid of that. Neither was I. Obviously we protect our children. We don’t show their faces on the Internet, so that’s very intentional.

But I think we lived our life in such a way where if that was our last day, it was our last day. We always lived as if it was the last day. That’s why Charlie’s speeches were so good, because he didn’t know if that was going to be his last speech. And he was so intentional about every word. Every word had a meaning and every speech had a connection point for the students and for whoever he was speaking to.

And that’s why he never missed the opportunity to weave the gospel into what he was saying.

The Power of Faith-Based Messaging

MEGYN KELLY: Yes, that’s what made him so much more powerful than the rest of us. If you see the difference between Charlie Kirk and many of the right wing pundits or commentators, it’s that he supercharged the message that the rest of us were saying with biblical references, with faith-based wisdom, which made it ten times more powerful. And people knew it. It’s one of the things we’re all missing right now.

ERIKA KIRK: But to answer your question, you know, we always knew there were threats. We always knew that that could be a possibility. But obviously, you know, but we never lived in fear of when that day would be. We just trusted the Lord every day, you know.

Living Under Threat

MEGYN KELLY: Now, of course, in the wake of Charlie’s death, well, many are living under threat. I mean, the nut cases have gotten very loud and emboldened. And I just wonder whether it was the kind of threat environment that you needed to actually worry that something could happen, or was it just the din of, like, there are haters out there. You get these nutcase letters sometimes. You know, was it something like, no, it’s actually getting really serious and we need to worry, or was it just the din?

ERIKA KIRK: No, I mean, you would see, obviously leading up to that, there was several shootings, there was several individuals with guns on campus. So you knew that the threat was there and things were starting to heat up. But again, it wasn’t anything that, you know, you would think any different.

MEGYN KELLY: No, no, I know that the morning he died, he went back in your room. He had slept in your daughter’s room because he got up in the middle of the night and she got up in the middle of the night, and there was a switcheroo. We’ve all been there. Yeah. But he came back into your room and he got his necklace and he got his wedding ring.

ERIKA KIRK: Right.

MEGYN KELLY: And his necklace had a cross on it and it had St. Michael’s medal.

ERIKA KIRK: Yeah, I wear it every day.

MEGYN KELLY: Wow. Oh, it’s so beautiful.

ERIKA KIRK: Yeah.

Faith and Understanding God’s Will

MEGYN KELLY: And Erika, help me understand. I genuinely don’t understand. I’ve asked Frank Turek this. I’ve asked everyone I can ask this question. I don’t understand how you can be wearing your cross and your St. Michael’s medal and be shot to death. I feel as Charlie felt that that’s armor. You know, we wear that to protect us, and we believe God will protect us.

ERIKA KIRK: How have you squared? The Lord is so powerful, and we’re not meant to understand all of his ways. But there’s mercy in that. Knowing that God uses evil for good. I don’t know what exactly that is, but I do know that the Lord will use it. And if that means revival, the Lord, I told people, I said, I have never found more comfort in the statement, “Thy will be done.”

MEGYN KELLY: Explain that. Why?

ERIKA KIRK: Because it shows that control is an absolute illusion. The Lord knows the number of hairs on our head and he knows the number of our days. And that’s why Charlie was so intentional of making sure everyone knew that their role in life was so important and that you guys are all the missing puzzle piece to this whole story.

And we used to explain it when we would have dinner sometimes, about how when you look at a tapestry on one side, you see all of these hanging threads. It doesn’t make any sense. They’re all different colored threads all over the place. But when you turn that tapestry around, you see how beautifully woven together and how intentional every thread is to that tapestry.

And yes, I fully believe that you put on the full armor of God every single day. I mean, hence forth, all of my bracelets and rings, like everything has meaning to me. And that’s why I always wear my bracelets, always wear my rings, always wear my necklaces.

And it’s one of those things where we will never understand God’s ways fully. We’re not meant to. We wouldn’t be. Our mortal brains would not be able to even compute what he has designed and put together. But what I do know is that the Lord spoke through Charlie in so many ways. And I still feel so deeply connected to him.

MEGYN KELLY: Yeah.

ERIKA KIRK: And I know that the Lord used such evil to bring about something that will eventually come to good.

Signs from Heaven

MEGYN KELLY: It’s already started. I’ve seen it. I am a big believer in signs. You know, I think when you lose somebody, if you ask for a sign. Do you guys believe in signs? Have you gotten any from him?

ERIKA KIRK: You know, it’s so interesting. When we first started dating, this is personal, but I share it only because maybe it’ll be a sign for you to know that Charlie’s with you in something. When we first started dating, we would walk. We were walking to dinner one night, and this happened a lot. The lights would start to flicker, and he’d look up at the light and be like, you know, it’s so weird. This happens to me a lot. And I was like, really? I do think, yeah.

So our whole dating and whole marriage, anytime we’d be in a room and a light started to flicker, he would just look at me and wink. It was like our little thing. It’s a total frequency thing.

And so the night everything happened, when we were in Utah, I was in a hotel room by myself, in the bedroom portion by myself. And the bathroom light was on. And it just was a strobe light all night. Just like, part of me couldn’t sleep because it was a strobe light. The other part of me couldn’t sleep because of how just my world has just crumbled. And the other part of me couldn’t sleep because I was like, baby, I feel you. I know you’re here.

So that was, you know, some signs. But another sign, too, is just my daughter, you know, just saying little things, like, I could see you.

MEGYN KELLY: Is she starting to get it?

Talking to the Children About Heaven

ERIKA KIRK: Yes and no. We talk about heaven. I make it really exciting. I tell her, daddy had so much fun today. Everyone who has written letters and sent gifts to my children, thank you. I tell her, my son, he’s only a year and a half, but I tell both of them, Daddy is telling all of his friends to send you gifts and letters. And, you know, Daddy is orchestrating from heaven to make sure that you always feel so loved.

And the other day she was like, tell me about Daddy’s day in heaven. Just, we talk about that at night. And then sometimes I’ll say, well, tell me what you think he did in heaven today. And we just, I just try to make it exciting because it is. It is. Heaven is, heaven’s our home. So I just want her to know that Daddy is having so much fun and building a place for her and our family in heaven.

MEGYN KELLY: How do you, yeah, I know that you haven’t watched the video and you shouldn’t watch the video and you don’t. And you don’t want the kids to watch the video. Yeah, but how do you, how are you going to handle it when they get older, Erika, and they start to learn about the haters?

ERIKA KIRK: Right.

MEGYN KELLY: Because there does have to come a time where that needs to be put in the proper perspective. Charlie was so tough. He, it was hard to get him rattled about these attacks. But, and I can speak to this having my own children, two of whom are backstage. You know, there comes a time where you have to sort of help your kids understand the terrible negative messages that are out there about someone they deeply love. Have you thought about that at all? Like, how are you going to walk them into that?

Protecting Childhood While Preparing for Reality

ERIKA KIRK: You know, first and foremost, I want my children to have a childhood. So that’s another reason why I don’t put them on the Internet. It’s another reason why I don’t expose them to certain screen time. I’ve said it before, some of the shows, the only shows they would watch is Charlie Bob Ross, because he has a very nap-inducing voice. And then, you know, every now and then it would be some of Charlie’s events.

But I want them to be children first. And I want to teach them so much about God and Jesus so that when they do get older and they do see the hate, they also understand how much good is still out there. And they also understand that they could be the antidote to the evil. And they can pray for those people and not be afraid. I’d never want them to be afraid, but I want them to also see that that evil is because they or their parents or their loved ones is actually doing something to make a difference.

Because if you’re not getting attacked or slandered or whatever else out there, you’re just looking a lot like the rest of the world. And I want them to know that that’s okay. You know, I have been called so many names, I have been slandered and none of that means anything to me. It’s all just noise.

MEGYN KELLY: Crazy.

ERIKA KIRK: It’s unbelievable.

MEGYN KELLY: Watching people turn on you has been one of the most unexpected, strange, terrible things to do.

Being Misunderstood by the World

ERIKA KIRK: You know what? Again, and I know you get this because you have, you have a thick skin and a soft heart. The thing is that the more that people, and it gets outlandish more and more crazy as time goes on because there’s just a void that apparently needs to be filled. But I’m okay with the world not understanding me. I’m okay with that. I’m okay with they, you know, I don’t want to look like the world. As Christians, we’re called to be in the world, not of it. And if they could understand me, then I’m not doing something right.

MEGYN KELLY: Well said. Forgive me. Did you see? People didn’t understand the hug that you and J.D. had. They went to the weirdest places.

ERIKA KIRK: Oh, my gosh, you guys, please. So for those of you who know me, I never, I, I’m a very, I love, I hug.

MEGYN KELLY: It’s like you’re an intense hugger.

ERIKA KIRK: Whoever is hating on a hug needs a hug themselves. I will give you a free hug anytime you want a hug. My love language is touch if you will. But seriously, that hug. So I will give you a play by play walking. They just played the emotional video. I’m walking over. He’s walking over. I’m starting to cry. He says, he’s so proud of you. And I say, “God bless you.” And I touch the back of his head.

Anyone who I’ve hugged said, I have touched the back of your head. When I hug you, I always say, “God bless you.” That’s just me. If you want to take that out of context, go right ahead. Again, that, to me, shows that you need a hug more than anyone else. So if anyone, they were acting like—

MEGYN KELLY: You touched the back of his ass.

ERIKA KIRK: I feel like I wouldn’t get as much hate if I did that. Versus, but no, seriously. So now when I go and hug people, I’ll bring them back in and be like, I obviously didn’t give you the right hug. Like, come let me touch the back of your head. I don’t know what to do with my head. Touch the head.

MEGYN KELLY: What can I touch?

ERIKA KIRK: I know it’s not me.

MEGYN KELLY: I’m always like, if you touch the back of my head, I’m like, oh.

ERIKA KIRK: She’s feeling the extension. That’s another thing. People think my hair is fake. It is very real.

MEGYN KELLY: My hairstylist told me, your hair is real. She was like, oh, no, that’s all real.

ERIKA KIRK: This is real. I know some women, they come and touch the back of my head. I’m like, what are you doing? They’re feeling.

MEGYN KELLY: Where’s the weave?

ERIKA KIRK: Yeah, they’re patting the weave. I know.

MEGYN KELLY: How is that real? Have you just been growing it out your whole life?

Growing Up Athletic

ERIKA KIRK: We want to know my mother. Okay, so I was, I loved sports. Growing up, I was the, my, I started playing basketball when I was five. My first coach, he was Charles Barkley of all people, which is amazing to have as your five-year-old YMCA coach.

MEGYN KELLY: Good to see you with your little Charles Barkley doll.

The Power of Sports and Childhood Memories

ERIKA KIRK: No, it’s great. He’s an awesome man. His daughter was a dear friend. And so I loved sports and my mom, I was swimming all the time. I was always super active and since my mom worked, I was always at the Boys and Girls Club always. And I was the last kid to get picked up from the Boys and Girls Club every single day. And the poor counselor or whatever you want to call him, that had to stand with me waiting for my mom to pick me up every day.

I loved school. I loved basketball so much. It was such a good escape for me as a child. And I remember my hair from swimming was so rotted because I have very coarse hair and my mom hated combing my hair and so her solution was a bowl cut straight across. Traumatizing. To this point. My hairdresser knows when we get a trim, it is literally like a fraction of my hair. I will never have hair shorter than my shoulders. Charlie loved my hair though. He just, he loved how long it was.

MEGYN KELLY: So what you’re saying is you have long, thick, coarse hair that takes you a while to grow out and take care of and you’re not black or named Michelle Obama, which is fascinating. That can happen with all the conspiracy theories.

ERIKA KIRK: Theories out there. I’m not going to touch that one either.

MEGYN KELLY: Hopefully you haven’t been paying too much attention to the news cycle, but they know what I’m talking about.

ERIKA KIRK: No, but the, the, my hair, to get back to that is something that I just, I’m, it was. I’m not going to cut it. I’m not going to, you know, Charlie liked it long. He liked it, he liked it long. And here we are. And. But my mom, if you ask my mom, she’ll tell you when she grew up from the standpoint of a Lebanese Italian background. And you’re supposed to shave your kid’s head when they’re two and then it’s supposed to grow back really thick after that. I was a product of the shaved head. So if you would like to try that on your two year old, unsolicited advice.

MEGYN KELLY: Is it work on the 55 year old?

ERIKA KIRK: I have no idea. You guys tell me, I don’t know.

MEGYN KELLY: I give it a try. You know, you raised the issue of the girls.

ERIKA KIRK: If you see us shaved head by December, you know why? Oh, yeah, we all look like Britney Spears. The headline.

MEGYN KELLY: Well, they went full skinhead, right? Yeah. And are listening to Nick Fuentes.

ERIKA KIRK: That’ll be no.

MEGYN KELLY: Yeah, it’s a no.

ERIKA KIRK: Yeah.

Women’s Sports and Biological Fairness

MEGYN KELLY: While we’re on the subject, because you really were a very strong female athlete, can I ask you your position on that? Because. Oh, yeah, because this is obviously a dominant thing. We had Megan Rapinoe in the news just this week saying people are. They don’t really mean it. They don’t actually have an objection to men playing in women’s sports. They’re just using it as an issue. She made all her money, she’s sitting pretty, but she wants your daughter to play against the boys. Your thoughts on it?

ERIKA KIRK: So. Well, you can take this as twofold. So if you’re looking at it from the sports angle where you’re playing up against men, I mean, I know this has been said before, but then what’s the point of female sports? But to me, being an idiot, I played in college. I worked so hard for that scholarship. I knew my strengths as a point guard. I hated driving the lane, always. I always shot the 3. That was my thing. I’m not driving. To have someone who’s like six, seven, just pat.

MEGYN KELLY: It’s not happening.

ERIKA KIRK: She said it. So for me, sports has a very special place in my heart. But as a mom now and watching my daughter compete, it’s just. I know they say, you know, life isn’t fair. I get that. Life’s not fair. But there’s certain things that are really special, and women’s sports is one of them. And it’s really. Some people look down on it, some people think it’s not it. But, you know, those girls have worked so hard for their position and to have it taken away from them by someone who couldn’t rank in their own sport and field, it’s demoralizing.

And it also weighs on the whole topic of being a woman, being proud to be a woman, being proud to be a strong female athlete. And I wouldn’t want that taken away from anybody. That’s right.

MEGYN KELLY: Having the glorious chance of accomplishment. I mean, we’ll never win if we’re playing against biological boys. We’ll never have that glorious feeling of crossing the finish line first or being the one who has the game winning shot because it’s always going to go to a man. It’s one of the basic things we always talk about the unfairness of it and the safety of it. But just think about that, the glorious feeling of winning, which I never had because I wasn’t an athlete. But you had it.

ERIKA KIRK: I don’t know. I feel like politics somewhat is form of an athletic feat.

MEGYN KELLY: So, you know, I had it. When Don Lemon got fired. It depends.

ERIKA KIRK: That was your moment. Yeah.

MEGYN KELLY: You know, we all look for our moments. Yeah, we feel good. I want to ask you about the book that you’re holding in your hand.

Charlie’s Final Book: “Stop in the Name of God”

ERIKA KIRK: Yes. Charlie’s book. I took the dust cover off because I carry his book everywhere. “Stop in the Name of God.” It’s coming out soon.

MEGYN KELLY: Charlie’s coming out with a book? Yeah, he’s coming out with a book, “Stop in the Name of God,” which is a great title. Stop in the Name of God. And what is it about?

ERIKA KIRK: Took him a year and a half to write it. And this book, I mean, when I’m reading it, I’m like, I did not even know you knew that. It is so powerful. Overarching theme of it is the power of honoring the Sabbath and the importance of rest and reading this. And I even brought one of his journals with me to read out of it.

Because the thing that’s so interesting about reading this book and reading this journal, and I know a lot of you that are Christians will understand this, they tell you that when you read the Bible, it’s the living word of God. And it is. And you see the Lord in Technicolor when you read the Bible and you actually understand those words. And so for me, reading Charlie’s journals and reading this book, it’s like he’s. I mean, he’s still. He’s present with the Lord, but it feels like he’s still fully here. And that’s what’s so powerful about this book.

And I watched him as a wife, completely transform into an already. I mean, he was already amazing and incredible, but I totally elevated him when he was honoring the Sabbath and when he really took that seriously, that time to rest seriously, seriously. And I just can’t help but think, if everything. And to go to your point of signs, I don’t think anything is by coincidence, but to have this be his last book and to him, totally master what it means to rest with the Lord. It’s all for us full circle now, because it’s the ultimate Sabbath where he is right now. Get to read it when. Yeah, as much as I can driving into the office or.

MEGYN KELLY: No, but I mean, was it written entire in its entirety before Charlie died? Yes, it was.

ERIKA KIRK: Yes, it was. He finished writing this, I believe, in July. June or July of this year.

MEGYN KELLY: So you had read it.

ERIKA KIRK: But, but to read it in a book format and not an email format that he would send me is something. Night and day difference. Yeah.

MEGYN KELLY: What, what are the pictures pages that are folded?

ERIKA KIRK: The one that I. Well, all of them are amazing. But the one that I wanted to read was the part about sleeping because Charlie, his adrenaline was always going and it was very hard for him to turn his brain off at night. Henceforth snacks at 2:00 a.m.

MEGYN KELLY: Did you tell me olives and bananas?

ERIKA KIRK: Not together. Not together. But you know, he was even snacking in a healthy manner.

Charlie’s Discipline and Self-Control

MEGYN KELLY: Also we do have to discuss the fact that you said he only had mint chocolate chip ice cream once a year, 4th of July and his birthday.

ERIKA KIRK: Right.

MEGYN KELLY: And. And no ice cream any other day.

ERIKA KIRK: His self control and self discipline was phenomenal. And to the point too where when I was pregnant, 70% of the reason why no one saw me when I was pregnant was because of this situation. The other 30% was the. Because I just was with my babies. But 70% of it was, I’m really hungry. I think I should. I have a milkshake. Baby, get that milkshake. But I don’t know if I should have that milkshake. You need the milkshake. I’m going to go and get you that milkshake. Do you want a hot fudge sundae too? I’m going to get the In-N-Out burger. No questions. I’ll be right back. Animal style.

So he’d come home, he loved it because he loved driving around at night. So he’d come home with the In-N-Out burger, animal style, protein style, whatever, mixed in with the hot fudge sundae, the chocolate shake. And he would be so excited to give it to me and watch me eat it. But that was because he was living vicariously through me.

So no joke, I got to 190 pounds. I was like, I am literally going to weigh more than you by the end of this pregnancy. And he’d be like, baby, you look great. You look. Don’t worry about that. That’s just baby weight. That’ll. I mean granted it does go away. It takes a long time. They’re eating his olives. No, no, he’s just watching me and I’m like, I will enjoy this hot fudge sundae while you wish that you could have.

But he was so self disciplined and he was so good about eating. He was. Biohacking was his love language of being healthy, eating clean. He could not operate on fast food the way that he was in general. That’s why he never drank. That’s why he never. It wasn’t from, you know, a motive of I’m better than who? Whoever it was from the motive of I need to operate as if I’m going to war every single day, and I can’t operate on this type of food.

MEGYN KELLY: And speaking of the sleep, that’s very.

A Sacred Passage on Rest

ERIKA KIRK: No, right. So the sleep was important because I was like. He loved his sleep. And something that I was very intentional about is when he came home, I would always let him sleep in. Always. On the weekends, I would take the kids, go for a walk, whatever it took. And I would want him to wake up when it was time to up wake, wake up. Because I knew how important rest was for him.

And so when I read this in the book, it was on my heart to share it with you. Because the title of it says, “Jesus slept, Elijah slept, and so can you.” And he said so. Start tonight. Close the laptop, power down the phone, let the dishes wait, pull the shades, dim the lights, and give your body permission to do what it was created to do. Do to rest.

Let your bed become an altar of trust as your head touches the pillow and whisper to God, “I release it all to you.” You don’t need to check one more email. You don’t need to prove anything. You don’t need to carry the weight of the world. It already has a savior, and it’s not you.

Sleep is not a distraction from your purpose. It is part of your purpose. It is a sacred rhythm that restores your mind, heals your body, and quiets your soul. The Sabbath is your weekly reminder that you are not a machine. You are a beloved child. And children sleep well when they know their father is near.

So go ahead, embrace the gift. Make your Sabbath a day not just of rest, but of sleep. Deep, joyful and replenishing sleep you’re allowed. And more than that, you’re invited. Rest isn’t weakness, it’s worship. And tomorrow will be better because you trusted God enough to rest today.

MEGYN KELLY: Wow. He was keeping the Sabbath.

ERIKA KIRK: So with that, since today is his Sabbath, I wanted to read to you from his journal.

MEGYN KELLY: Oh, wow.

Charlie’s Personal Faith and Prayer Life

Is that it right there? Yeah. Wow, that’s handwriting. A note that he wrote to himself to honor the Sabbath. He said, “Dear Lord, thank you for a wonderful week. Thank you for your endless protection and provision, Father God, thank you for your mercy and grace, Lord. I did better this week, despite the challenges of travel. I miss my wife. It is hard to be away from her for a few days.

Thank you for giving us a roadmap of what it means to be obedient and put Christ first. Lord, I have realized the battle against the mind is Satan’s playground. He dwells and prowls to destroy. The more in alignment we walk in your command and teachings, the more joy and blessing we experience.

Lord, thank you for showing us the way, the truth and the life. Thank you for blessing our organization. I pray for resolution amongst the divides that Satan is attempting. Lord, we pray for blessing for the people who feel they have been wronged. Father God, we ask for your guidance, wisdom and direction, your comfort and your healing. We love you, Lord. Thank you for another Sabbath. CK.”

MEGYN KELLY: Wow, Erika, I know you touched on it earlier. But one of the reactions I have to hearing that is like, I get angry. How can that man have been taken? He was all goodness. The left, who are bastardizing his memory, have no idea what they’re talking about. Charlie was all goodness. I know we can’t understand God’s plan, but have you had bouts of anger? You know, I think about what the kids are going to miss, what you got gypped out of, what poor Charlie now is going to miss. And I feel angry. Sadness, of course, obviously, but yes, against the accused shooter, but just, I know you don’t ever feel angry against God, but I kind of do.

ERIKA KIRK: I understand.

MEGYN KELLY: How do you make sense of that? And do you have any anger when you think about it, towards the Lord? But in general.

Choosing Faith Over Anger

ERIKA KIRK: The enemy would love for me to be angry. He would love it. He would love it because it would distract me from building what Charlie entrusted to me, raising our babies, Turning Point, being there for the team, being there for what the future holds.

And if I had any amount of anger in my heart and spirit, the Lord would not be able to use me. And every single day, just how Charlie did, stood on stage, he would say, “Here I am, Lord. Use me.” And if I had that anger in my heart, that foothold from the enemy, he wouldn’t be able to.

MEGYN KELLY: I know at Charlie’s memorial, right across the way here, there was that extraordinary moment where you forgave his accused killer. And I mean, I looked and I said, that’s the most powerful, strongest thing I’ve ever seen anybody do in my life.

And then somebody helped me understand because I thought I could never do it. I could never do it. And somebody said to me, “Forgiveness is an action, not an emotion.” And I was like, okay, that’s getting me closer to feeling like I could do it. If I don’t actually have to feel loving in my heart toward the person.

But I wonder, like, how do you, if you could say something to him, if you could, like, if you would say something to his parents, like, what would it be? Would it be anger? Would it be sympathy? What would it be?

ERIKA KIRK: That’s a good question. It wouldn’t be sympathy, it wouldn’t be anger. How do you put this? Anything that I could ever wish upon him or that family would pale in comparison of the justice of God.

And so I would look at them almost like, I’m so glad I’m not you. I am so glad I’m not you. And I pray that, you know, you figure out a way to be right with the Lord. But our God is sovereign, but he’s also very just. We serve a very just filled God. So I really have nothing to say to any of them.

MEGYN KELLY: Yeah, nor do you need to. You mentioned in your remarks at Charlie’s funeral that, you know, you pointed out the irony that the accused shooter is exactly the kind of person who Charlie meant to help.

ERIKA KIRK: Yes.

Charlie’s Mission to Save Young Men

MEGYN KELLY: That’s kind of what he dedicated his life to doing, is trying to reach disaffected young men who had been forgotten by a system or worse than forgotten. Remembered and told that they’re terrible and to blame for everything. And those messages for years now have really materially, seriously affected the health and mental well being of a generation of young men who need Turning Point.

And so that’s a huge responsibility for you. Like, it’s not just, oh, we have a great political organization and it’s a really big thing and people love it. You actually have to go about the business of saving an entire generation, in particular of young men, but young women too. How are you going to do that? I mean, I think everybody wants to know without Charlie, how are you going to do that?

ERIKA KIRK: A few things. First, Charlie would say, “I want to save the lost boys of the West.” That was on his, he had a to do list and that was on the top point of the to do list that he had. He has that piece of paper still on his desk at his office.

But what’s so powerful about all of this is that Charlie was so focused on the family. He didn’t believe that it was up to the government to raise your kids. He wanted to not only empower the students, but also the parents.

And something that you’ve done so beautifully, Megyn, is that your children, you’ve raised them with the truth and understanding the importance of loving this country. You might not agree with everything that the government does. That’s life, it’s the government. But you still love this country. And so your babies even started Turning Point chapters. But it’s also because you as a parent saw how important that was.

And I think that’s what’s so special about Turning Point USA, is that when we have these events, especially America Fest, it is so family oriented. We’re not out there trying to raise your kid. We’re trying to reaffirm what you’ve been telling them this whole time. We’re trying to reaffirm to them that there is a space for you. We are here for the civil discourse. We are here for the debates. We are here for the dialogue. We are here for the freedom of speech.

That’s our role. Save Western civilization. But what Charlie loved, and him being a parent also, was that he wanted to inspire the parents to show their kids what true north is. And then say, you have a home at Turning Point that will help fuel that even more. And so that’s how I view us being able to help.

Dating Advice for Young Women

MEGYN KELLY: Charlie spoke very frankly to young men. He did it on my show many times. And one of my favorite clips of him is the dating advice one. Right. Do you know the clip I mean, where he said, you’ve got to pay on the first date to the guys when you are courting a woman? He said when you are courting, yes. He was very sweet to those guys. You seem like nice guys, but it’s absolutely ridiculous that you’re talking about not paying.

ERIKA KIRK: Right.

MEGYN KELLY: So let me ask you the other side of it. What’s your advice to young women who get asked out by young men?

ERIKA KIRK: Well, stay away from hookup culture. Don’t just date to date. If a guy wants to take you to drinks instead of dinner, that’s a huge red flag. If they don’t want to go to church with you and have brunch afterwards, another huge red flag.

Don’t introduce them to your family until you know, without a shadow of a doubt that might be the man that you’re going to marry. And don’t treat your boyfriend like your husband. Don’t treat your boyfriend like your fiance. Treat them like your boyfriend. Treat your fiance like your fiance and your husband like your husband.

And I think that when you stay focused on the Lord and the lane that he has you in, which is a stream of significance, keep swimming in that. The man that’s supposed to be with you will not detract you from the Lord. He’ll enhance your focus on the Lord, and he will help build, be there to build with you, to love on you, to be there for your family.

He won’t tear you away from your family. He won’t challenge your beliefs in a way that makes you question the Lord and what you know in your heart to be true. He’ll love you so well, just like my Charlie did. And he’ll be a compliment to you in such a beautiful way. And you’ll be equally yoked where you’re not having to compete and you’re not having to strive. The two of you are in lockstep, and you’re building something beautiful for the kingdom, and it’s powerful.

MEGYN KELLY: If I could just a quick addendum. Don’t be a slut.

ERIKA KIRK: Right. Just that, too.

MEGYN KELLY: Note to self.

ERIKA KIRK: Note to self. Right.

Turning Point’s Role in Elections

MEGYN KELLY: Now, in the time we have left, I’ve got to ask you this. Turning Point played a massive role in the past election, in the presidential election. Massive role. And so we have to talk about what Turning Point may or may not do in 26, and most importantly, in 28. And why is it get behind JD Vance?

ERIKA KIRK: Let’s start with midterms first before we start jumping to 28. And let’s enjoy the fact that we do have Donald Trump in office. And we worked really hard.

MEGYN KELLY: Let’s enjoy that.

ERIKA KIRK: We worked really hard to make that happen. My husband did. So I just want to enjoy that for a minute before we start jumping ahead.

But my husband, like I said, built a machine. And some of the secret sauce within that was that he loved the students, but also he loved empowering them to know that they could make a difference and how important voting was.

And when you see these pictures of him when he first started Turning Point USA, he was so bought into his own mission. He wasn’t, you know, in an office cubicle while the students were out in the event, he was there wearing his lanyard with his little name tag and a big “Gov Sucks” button and “Socialism Sucks” button.

And he believed in the mission so much, and for lack of a better term, he knew that the unsexy work was what it took to save elections, which is tennis shoes and clipboards and speaking to your neighbors, knocking on doors, being involved with your community, not being afraid to explain to people why you believe what you believe.

And nothing is changing at Turning Point USA or Turning Point Action. If anything, it’s just continuing to grow. I mean, you’ve seen the numbers of how many chapters and churches, and it’s been phenomenal. And yes, there is a structure of quality over quantity.

But the 26 midterms obviously will be focusing heavily on Arizona. It’s our home state. But the thing I love the most, especially about, and if you guys have ever been to our campus, if you have not, I really suggest you come by. We have a building that’s specifically for the Turning Point Action Building. And it is one of my favorite buildings to go into because I feel the heartbeat of Charlie in there from a strategy standpoint.

Because it’s a literal, it’s like a war room in there. They have the polling and they have the strategy laid out and they have the door knockers. It’s really, really powerful to witness. And I can just see Charlie being like, “Knock on that one more door, one more door. Talk to that neighbor one more time.”

And so we are thrilled to be able to still make massive impacts and inroads with the upcoming elections and the team that Charlie built. I tell you what, I would bet on them any day, always.

Trump and JD Vance’s Support

MEGYN KELLY: You mentioned, I mentioned JD, you mentioned Trump. Can you just give us a minute on them? Because from afar it has looked like they’ve been so there for you.

ERIKA KIRK: Yes.

MEGYN KELLY: And, you know, I don’t think most people were surprised to see JD do it, but everyone says Trump has no empathy. He’s a nasty guy, he’s a mean guy, he’s a Nazi. Pick your term. I saw him with you at the Presidential Medal of Freedom when he awarded it to Charlie posthumously. Can you just tell us a little bit about how they’ve been behind the scenes in this whole thing?

A Special Relationship with President Trump

ERIKA KIRK: Charlie and President Trump had a really special relationship. It was one that some people would understand, others wouldn’t. Sometimes it was fatherly son, but at other times it was this mutual deep respect of being able to build in a way where Trump understood building in Manhattan and building across the country and across the world architecturally.

And Charlie understood building with Turning Point USA and his ability to see things that other people couldn’t really see, especially in other people. But what Charlie really appreciated about President Trump is that no matter what anyone says about him, he is so mission focused, he’s so laser focused. And Charlie was the same way.

And he admired so much the President’s tenacity to keep going, especially after January 6th when no one wanted anything to do with him. Charlie said, “I got your back.” And he meant it. And moments like that really put into perspective the human aspect of politics.

You can go down the rabbit hole of slandering someone. But at the end of the day, when it’s all said and done, the most important thing is that you realize that we’re all just doing our best here with our one life that we have.

And the President was so good to Charlie from the standpoint of he didn’t look down to Charlie. He appreciated his ability to be able to mobilize the youth, but also to share the message of how amazing the country we live in. Yes, we have faults. Anything with humans have faults. We’re all sinful.

But he appreciated that Charlie was always there for him and he was always there for Charlie. And the President has always had a very soft spoken spot in my heart because I got to witness that he wasn’t just the President to my husband. He was a friend. And I’ll never forget that.

Supporting JD Vance for 2028

MEGYN KELLY: And JD and Usha have been incredibly supportive. It’s been really nice to see and I look forward to you guys throwing the full weight of Turning Point behind them in about three years. Am I being subtle?

ERIKA KIRK: No, don’t worry. It works. But that was the thing that my husband was very direct about. It was, interestingly enough, one of the last few conversations we had was how intentional he was about supporting JD for 2028.

MEGYN KELLY: Yeah, he was totally behind JD and he was largely responsible for Trump picking JD. True. Okay, here’s another one. Charlie said on the record, “Erika is way more conservative than I am.”

ERIKA KIRK: Way more.

MEGYN KELLY: How so?

ERIKA KIRK: Well, first and foremost, we were always very in alignment with obviously a lot of things, but there were certain things where we made sure that in the beginning, and Andrew Colvet can attest to this, it was an immigration side of things that I had a different viewpoint on. And then he was like, “I see that point.” It was a long time ago with student visa related topics.

But other than that, we were in alignment with a lot of things. I was just a little bit more direct behind the scenes about it, but we were always in lockstep with one another.

Turning Point’s Future Direction

MEGYN KELLY: So people hoping for Turning Point to go conservative light now that, that’s not happening.

ERIKA KIRK: No, we are not. Turning Point USA is not becoming feminized. Let me tell you that that is not going to happen. Never.

No, we have a great team. We have a phenomenal group of people. That’s what’s so amazing too about Turning Point is that after all this happened, we didn’t have mass firing, we didn’t have mass exodus, we didn’t have any issues internally. Everyone, we grieved, but we were able to pull off an unbelievable memorial service.

MEGYN KELLY: It was incredible.

ERIKA KIRK: But that just is a testament to the team. I mean, that’s not normal. That is the Holy Spirit moving within the organization. And now more than ever, I see the strength of the organization. Because people aren’t just there to write emails.

And that’s why the age of the individuals that work at the office, everyone’s so young. Charlie didn’t care if you went to college. He actually preferred that you didn’t. He would hire you right out of high school.

But the organization itself is so healthy and the culture is so healthy, and our chapters and the students and the field program and the Charlie Kirk show and the events team and everyone that is a part of the organization goes back to that tapestry of there’s a bunch of threads woven together. The organization is phenomenal.

So, no, we are not weakening at all. We are not becoming feminized at all. If anything, we’re being more emboldened. And we will carry on my husband’s legacy in a way that no one could even have imagined. And we’ll make it everything he could have ever dreamed of and more.

MEGYN KELLY: Amen. Amen. God bless you.

ERIKA KIRK: God bless your children.

MEGYN KELLY: God bless Turning Point USA. And you, let all of us know if you need anything.

A Call for Prayer

ERIKA KIRK: Prayers. Prayers would mean everything. Wisdom and discernment and protection. And just pray for our country. Pray for our leaders. Pray for people that you don’t agree with. You don’t have to like them, but just pray for them.

Pray that the Lord softens their heart. Pray that the Lord has His will be done and justice always prevails. And just pray that we’re on it.

MEGYN KELLY: We love you.

ERIKA KIRK: I love you.

MEGYN KELLY: We love Erika.

ERIKA KIRK: Thank you.

MEGYN KELLY: Don’t forget to buy the book, “Stop in the Name of God.” You can get it now.

ERIKA KIRK: Thank you.

Related Posts

• Transcript: Donald Trump Jr. on Keeping It Real Podcast w/ Jillian Michaels
• Transcript: John Rich on Diddy, Demons, the Antichrist – Tucker Carlson Show
• Broadcaster George Galloway on Tucker Carlson Show (Transcript)
• Transcript: Jocko Willink on Shawn Ryan Show (SRS #257)
• Transcript: Chris Williamson on Joe Rogan Podcast #2418