Former Secret Agent Aliia Roza on Seduction Perfumes – Shawn Ryan Show (Transcript)

You know, I was a GRS contractor for the Central Intelligence Agency. Through a lot of my deployments, one thing that I noticed is I didn’t see any Russian ones, but I saw a lot of Chinese brothels that were being set up all over Iraq, all over Afghanistan, all over the Middle East.

Pretty much anywhere that Americans are working outside of the US and probably, well, actually, definitely inside the US, they have brothels where they’re trying to lure in State Department intelligence professionals, anybody that they can get their hands on.

So it was an interesting dialogue every single time. I was surprised, I wasn’t surprised, but I was like, oh, shit, you guys are very aware of this kind of stuff. Then about a month later, you popped up, and I was like, I got to, we have to do this. So thank you.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. You know, I appreciate it so much for being invited to interview, because usually press, when I give an interview or something, they either exaggerate everything or they write more and they call me these crazy names like “the sex spy reveals the confession,” or “the sex spy manipulator tells the whole truth” and all this.

So I understand they need to sell it. But I mainly gave an interview about how to prevent manipulation, especially for those men who work in tech companies who are super busy. They don’t have time to go and socialize and meet women who are devoted to their work.

Hence when they meet someone online, like virtually, sometimes because of the kindness or maybe because they’re naive, they don’t even think that behind this account may be a fake account of a professional, mature male intelligence officer who pretends to be this cute, nice young female girl wearing bikinis or whatever on the beach and love bombing his account through the social platforms like LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, wherever.

This poor man, because they don’t have female attention during the day, they buy it. Because they go too into this relationship, they’ve been manipulated. It’s really sad because when I gave an interview, I was actually in New York Times post, I was actually giving some techniques how to prevent manipulation, how to see through this manipulation and how to understand what are the red flags not just for men, but for women too.

There’s so many online scammers, right? We know so many who actually love bomb you in order to get some money out of you and hack your account or bank accounts or whatever.

The Cost of Espionage

So the Times article went out on the 22nd of October, and in the Times magazine it said that according to the commission of the theft of the American intellectual property, the theft on the trade secrets cost over $600 billion to American taxpayers annually. Over $600 billion.

SHAWN RYAN: Yes.

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, yes, it’s in the article and it’s the whole investigation. Actually there is an expert, James Mulvenon, if I’m pronouncing it correctly. He is actually for 30 years investigating espionage in corporations in Silicon Valley.

That’s exactly what he says. He even, I mean he looks like about 60 years old. He said, “I’ve been targeted and I’ve been contacted by so many Chinese beautiful, pretty accounts in LinkedIn where I understand probably they are spies or fake accounts,” you see.

So that’s what’s going on and that’s why we would like to bring awareness, me in particular, to these men to be very careful when they have these messages online from these pretty beautiful young girls. Why would they find you? How would they find you? Why would you think that they want to date you and whatever just because you’re cute?

I mean, think about where do you work? What kind of things?

SHAWN RYAN: Let’s be honest, a lot of them aren’t cute. So, you know, but I thought the interview would be fascinating and it’s going to be even more fascinating than I thought because originally when I just saw the clip, I was like, we have to get her.

Then going through the outline and as the team’s been talking to you about the outline, I mean, so you were basically trafficked. This is a lot different than what I was thinking. So it sounds like you were trying to take down basically trafficking networks, traffickers, am I correct?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

The Reality of Trauma

SHAWN RYAN: And there’s a lot of trauma involved in that and a lot of recovery.

ALIIA ROZA: Yes. A lot of. I still work with a therapist every week.

SHAWN RYAN: Really?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, for 17 years.

SHAWN RYAN: Seventeen years.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. And I still have PTSD and anxiety and it’s a big challenge. Very. Sometimes there are some days that it’s just, even my spy techniques don’t really help that. I mean, of course they do help, but still sometimes I find myself that I just cannot go through the day and it’s really hard.

SHAWN RYAN: So.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

Aliia’s Background

SHAWN RYAN: Well, everybody starts off with an introduction here. So here we go. Aliia Roza, a former secret agent turned woman empowerment coach, public speaker and influencer.

Born in the former Soviet Union into a Kazakh Tatar family of high ranking Soviet military officers. Your grandfather was a national hero who fought the Nazis during World War II.

At 18, you became a Russian FSB trained seduction agent where you dedicated yourself to combating drug and human trafficking. Then you defected from Russia, writing a book that reveals spy, secret spy techniques based on the KGB program. There’s a documentary being produced about your life.

And then we pulled a quote that I thought was pretty interesting from you: “At the end of the day, when I saved someone’s life, I felt good about it. But I never asked myself how I felt being in a body that was constantly abused and raped by random men. One former FBI agent said I was broke. I was a broken toy, that I was sex trafficked myself. But all my classmates, we didn’t feel this way. We felt patriotic. We were ready to sacrifice and do anything for our government. That’s how I felt.”

It’s a pretty powerful statement.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah. That’s a pretty powerful statement. So like I was saying before we started rolling the cameras here, I would like to do a life story on you. Then toward the end of it, talk about some tradecraft and manipulation techniques, how to avoid it and all that kind of good stuff. And who knows what kind of rabbit holes we’ll go down after that. But before we do, everybody gets a gift.

ALIIA ROZA: Oh, thank you.

The Documentary Project

SHAWN RYAN: Vigilance Elite Gummy Bears.

ALIIA ROZA: Wow. Thank you. Can I try it?

SHAWN RYAN: Of course you can try it.

ALIIA ROZA: I’m so excited. I’ve seen it. I was wondering what is the taste of these gummies? So curious. By the way, while I’m unpacking it quickly, we are working on a documentary. It’s not produced yet. We just, like in the beginning of the beginning, I just signed a deal with Phobic Studios, but we didn’t even start filming it, so yeah, it’s not.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, really?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: You haven’t. Do you have any idea when it will be out?

ALIIA ROZA: Probably next year. But I think the book will come out earlier than the documentary because everything is basically coming from the book. They’re looking for the IP and then you know how it is.

SHAWN RYAN: Are you going to be in it?

ALIIA ROZA: In a documentary? Yes, but TV show? No. TV show, somebody else will film.

SHAWN RYAN: Right on.

ALIIA ROZA: Let’s hide it here. So I’ll just hide these things. Okay. So all right, so I’m ready to try. They’re so cute.

SHAWN RYAN: All right, let’s see what you think.

ALIIA ROZA: Oh, my God.

SHAWN RYAN: Not bad, huh?

ALIIA ROZA: Very, very good.

SHAWN RYAN: Right on.

ALIIA ROZA: Wow. I should have saved it for my son. He loves it. He loves gummy bears. Really nice too.

SHAWN RYAN: Thank you. We’ll give you an extra bag for your son.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you. Wow. I appreciate it.

Patreon Question: Compromised Government Officials

SHAWN RYAN: And then one more thing to knock out. So I have a Patreon account. It’s a subscription account. These folks have been with us since the very beginning and they’re the reason that I get to sit down here with you today.

One of the things we do is we give them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. So this is from Stephen Casey: “What is the percentage you think of compromised US Government actors by honeypots across all three branches of government?”

We know there’s Eric Swalwell, right? Who is sleeping with the Chinese spy. He’s still in there, by the way.

ALIIA ROZA: I mean, I don’t know this information, but percentage, that’s actually really hard to estimate.

SHAWN RYAN: How common do you think it is? Do you have any insight on that?

ALIIA ROZA: I know that it’s very common actually. In the podcast “To Die For,” when Neil did the whole investigation and all that, we have one lady who lives in New York right now. She’s Ukrainian based, I mean Ukrainian born and she was a model scout.

She said in the interview that she was bringing Russian and Ukrainian beauties working for the secret intelligence to America, especially to Washington and New York, to target particular politicians and ministers, to get closer, to establish relationship, maybe to get married.

So it’s quite common than you even think. Maybe. I’m not saying that every single Russian or Ukrainian or wherever, like Slovakian looking woman is a potential threat and potential spy. No, but men should be aware of this.

A Warning to Those in Power

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, I think of it like this. It’s pretty simple, right? If you are a man or a woman in a position of power, if you hold the keys to new technology, if you are a decision maker in government, if you are in intelligence and know about our government and what we’re doing in areas of the world, but maybe we shouldn’t be in.

And all of a sudden young, attractive foreign women or men are all around you and you’re not used to that happening, there’s probably something going on. You’re not that good looking, you don’t have that good a game. You’re just a f government employee or elected official who knows shit that our adversaries want. So get with the f program.

The Psychology of Seduction and Vulnerability

ALIIA ROZA:

Yes, but Shawn, you do understand, you worked in the military before, you understand the psychology of human beings, right? Show me any man who doesn’t want to believe that he’s been loved because he’s cute. Show me anyone.

If I, or any woman would come to the guy, even like not the best looking, and would tell him, “I find you very cute. I like you. I like your beautiful eyes. Oh, you’re so intelligent. You’re so amazing.” Wouldn’t he resist? Wouldn’t he say no to me or like to another woman?

SHAWN RYAN:

Well, I mean, look, I get it’s hard, I totally understand that. But I mean, you know, you have to look at the position that you’re in, right? And if something out of the normal starts to happen and you have the keys to new technology or, you know what I mean?

Then like, I don’t know, I just, I would think that you would be able to put it together a little bit better than these guys are.

The Einstein Honey Trap Operation

ALIIA ROZA:

Okay, so let me please share one example from the history. So the scientist, the famous scientist, the genius Albert Einstein was targeted by a female Soviet Union spy when after he, you know, was very close to Oppenheimer and had evening gatherings and dinners together.

So this beautiful young female attracted Einstein where he was invited to New York for a culture exhibition or something. So she met him over there. Yet she was married to a sculpture artist. And then she kind of like relocated herself to Albert Einstein and they established love relationships.

Then Albert started to take her to Oppenheimer house where she established very good friendship with Oppenheimer’s wife. And where slowly through the wife and through like France and Einstein, the Soviet spy, her name I think was Margarita, if I’m not mistaken, so she was taking all this information and report this information, this data to Soviet government where actually Soviets invented the nuclear bomb during two years instead of four just because they sold this data.

And here is a genius, very smart man, Albert Einstein, who actually was trapped, right. Was trapped under this honey trap techniques. So I don’t know if this guy was trapped, like how about other guys? You know, so I don’t know.

SHAWN RYAN:

What kind of a timeline are we talking here?

ALIIA ROZA:

So when Manhattan Project. When it was Manhattan Project. So it was after, I think Lichtenstein was that time.

SHAWN RYAN:

I mean, I mean how, how long was the relationship between, well, the spy.

ALIIA ROZA:

I don’t really know this information, but this information is actually in the history and in the Russian history also like in here you can Google it, you can actually check facts and everything. But they actually establish relationship. They live together like husband and wife. So Albert completely trusted the Margarita, so that’s why he was bringing her to all this, you know, family sort of like friends evenings and gatherings.

SHAWN RYAN:

Interesting. So I mean, okay, that’s a little bit different of a scenario than what I was, than what I was trying to describe is. I mean that, that is, that sounds like a well crafted.

ALIIA ROZA:

Operation, like social engineering.

SHAWN RYAN:

Yes. Some of the stuff that I’m talking about is just your regular everyday hook up at the bar. And it’s like why don’t talk about the secrets after the first and second night? I mean, you know.

Extracting Information During Vulnerable Moments

ALIIA ROZA:

Okay. So as a former honey trap agent, I can tell you that men are the most vulnerable during intercourse. And if you are quite experience agent, you can ask certain questions during or after the intercourse. Like straight after the ejaculation. Sorry, but I don’t know another word to explain.

So when man is in bliss and when he sort of lie in unconscious like condition and when he doesn’t really understand everything clearly and if an agent ask questions like the answer should be yes or no. So it’s simple question, “Have you met this guy? Oh by the way, have you met that guy? Oh by the way, do you know, is it like this or like this? How many? Like that much or like that much?”

So just a little like two, three simple questions. Most likely he would tell you because like just before ejaculation or just after this is that you know, period of that very vulnerable moment. So here you go. She got the information, she’ll pass it to the commander.

SHAWN RYAN:

Gotcha. Gotcha. I mean, it makes, I, it makes sense, and I know it’s happening, but, you know, if it was me and somebody was asking if I knew another man that was prominent right after I ejaculated, I’d probably be wondering why we’re thinking about other men. But I am, but we’re going to get.

ALIIA ROZA:

Into this, but about, like, the work. So you kind of like, “Oh, you know, my love, you work so hard. You, you’re so busy. Everything is on your shoulders. I want to help you. Let me do massage for you. How was your day today?”

Okay. So do you do this project by yourself or you work like, “I work with, like, David, let’s say.” “Oh, like, does he help you? Like, oh, what does he do exactly?” You know, this sort of conversation, like a female nurturing conversation with the man, and she wants to support him and just please him and all that. That’s what I mean, you know, it’s a female kind of like energy and female perspective.

The Epstein Question and Media Skepticism

SHAWN RYAN:

So what, what do you think? Since we’re on this topic, I mean, we’re talking about getting secrets and all this other stuff, but what about, what do you think about the Epstein stuff? I’m very curious about your thoughts on that. The blackmail operation, supposed blackmail operation. What do you think that was?

ALIIA ROZA:

Okay, so my personal opinion on everything I see in the media and in the news, when I didn’t see it myself and I didn’t see the facts and evidences, I cannot give my opinion just based on someone’s thoughts or someone’s statements. I do not trust none of the media or wherever, wherever I hear or I listen, I always do my own investigation.

So I haven’t been there. I haven’t seen it. So that’s why I would, I wouldn’t say my own opinion about that. And I don’t want to repeat someone’s opinion on that because it could be all this, you know, like, every single story has two sides. Like a coin on one side.

It could be set up. It’s always a setup when a powerful, wealthy man trying to get more power or more money and somebody else doesn’t want him to do, and they, like, compete, blah, blah, blah. And that’s why the competitor that would set him up and we see this all the time, it calls actually in the spy world it calls compromise. Compromising materials, compromising someone in order for him or for this target to lose the power.

Perhaps this was a compromise. I don’t know. I wasn’t there. If I would be one of these girls, I would tell you, yes, I was one of the victims. And that’s what happened. I don’t know.

On another hand, because there’s so many victims and because there’s so many evidences, yeah, we kind of, like, we can say yes, but again, you know, everything what is presented in media, everything what we see in Internet, like I said, like, I’m grateful to be here because now you give me an opportunity to speak out from my own, like, persona, from myself, rather than some journalists write about me, calling me, like, different names or editing or, you know, writing about me in their own way.

So I think, like, every single person in this world should have his own opinion and should not be under this influence of anyone’s thoughts. So make your own opinion, have your own research, do your own investigation, and make an opinion yourself.

SHAWN RYAN:

It’s a good way to be. It’s a good way to be. All right, you ready to get into the life story?

ALIIA ROZA:

Yeah, of course.

SHAWN RYAN:

All right. Where’d you grow up?

Growing Up in Soviet Union

ALIIA ROZA:

Okay, so I was born in 1984. I was born in Soviet Union. It’s sad at the same time to say that this country doesn’t exist anymore. But at the same time, I was born in the country which had the stability where my grandmother would say, “Tomorrow would be the same day as today.” And it would be amazing because you don’t need to worry about, like, where would you have money? Would you be fired or whatever.

Everybody would have the same amount of things in the house, like, same amount of money coming every month, same salary. Everybody would wear the same clothes, so everything would be the same. It’s kind of boring, but at the same time, and it’s maybe utopia, but at the same time, it gives people this stable kind of, like, foundation where they know that everything is similar and tomorrow will be the same day. So it’s the beauty of it.

And in 1991, so I kind of like, probably would say, I have this amazing experience to live on the border of two countries. When in 1991, USSR falls and perestroika began. It’s sort of like it was sort of revolution, almost like a civil war. Because that time in 91, you know, civilians went to the sort of, like, the government house, the White House, and they started to bomb to the White House. It was a mess. It was a chaos.

Of course, people lost the stability, they lost all the hopes, they lost all the beliefs. You know, like that ideology that you were raised with, that this is your country, you fought for your country in the second war. They lost over 20 million soldiers in the second war. And they fought for the house, for the homeland and everything. And then at one point in one day, it just collapsed.

Where I spoke with some American friends and they said that, “Oh, Gorbachev is like the best.” Americans love Gorbachev, whereas like Russians, they hate. I mean like, they don’t maybe hate, but they definitely judge Gorbachev because he was the one who actually signed this, this law and users are full.

So anyway, so I saw this by my eyes where like, you know, you have the stability and happy kind of like people living same day for the, you know, during like their life. And then another day, everything just collapsed.

The Collapse and Starvation

And what happened? I remember that time I was a little girl and we would be, we would stand with my mom, my little sister, like she was a newborn. We would stand under the rain, under the wind and the snow for like five, six, sometimes seven hours in order to get some food from the store because there were no food.

So you would come to the store, there’s no food, you can’t buy anything. So you’re basically starving. So you would need to bring your members of the family to the store to show like, “Okay, I’m like know adult and I have two kids. Please give me like three pieces of bread and like three sausages and three eggs.”

And like lines were like insane. And it was, it was like actually it was happening for quite long time. I, I do believe like it was for like six months at least. I don’t remember exactly like for how long, but it was really bad.

SHAWN RYAN:

And you were like seven.

ALIIA ROZA:

I was like, yes, seven, right.

SHAWN RYAN:

84 to 91. Seven years old.

Early Life Under Soviet Collapse

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, yes. So it was, I mean that was my childhood. That’s what I remember. And it was like, wow. So it created this sort of lack of food and lack of stability and lack of belief what would happen tomorrow. You know, when you’re a kid and you are growing with seeing all that, you understand that everything is so shady and it’s unpredictable and you cannot trust anything really. Neither your government.

Right. Then my father, that time, he couldn’t help my mom because he was constantly at his work where he was not get paid. So he was that time an officer working in the military. He went to the military because of his father because as you mentioned, my grandfather was a hero of the country, you know, fighting Nazi. And I mean, it’s a big pride of our family. It’s a heritage.

So I was raised with these beliefs, like, you know, you also need to go and protect your country. You also need to be, you know, you need to be proud of your roots. So my father was preparing me, preparing me slowly to this military career, which I didn’t know that time.

But every day he would teach me, he would come back home, we would have a dinner and he would teach me at least one hour a day about all the psychological techniques which I didn’t understand the time, like different scenarios in life. So he would give me like test. So this is the situation in life. What would you do? A, B, C? So I would pick up an answer and then he would explain me why this would work and why this wouldn’t work.

Training and Preparation

So when I was kind of ready enough, then he taught me the extreme driving, the gun shooting, and of course I had to do physical activities. Actually I won some competitions between oblast which are states, you know, like here are states in Russia they have oblasts. So it’s similar. So I won some competitions in gun shooting. I was the best gun shooter.

And you asked me shall we do the gun shooting? I kind of miss it, but for me this is like PTSD, you know, so try to stay away from guns and all that. So I stand for peace. And so he taught me a lot when I was a teenager. So he was preparing me for my future career yet.

So I finished my high school with best grades. I was, you know, I was so nerdish. I was so like this, you know, like this bullied girl. First of all, I was only one Asian looking girl in the whole Russian school with all these kids, blue eyes, blonde. Of course I was bullied, which is normal.

Second, I was such a nerd. So nobody would do homework as normal in high schools. Everybody would be, you know, going to dates and all this. I would be the one who would do my homework and reading books at night, you know, like Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Pushkin. So students, my people, they hated me because I was a nerd.

So I always would know, I always would do my homework and teachers would be like, okay, so nobody knows. Okay, come on, you know, give us the answer. So of course they hated me. And then at some point I also felt myself like ugly duckling. So I was not allowed to go out. I was not allowed to, you know, have friends.

So I would come after school back home and, you know, be home and prepare my homework and help my mom with the, you know, house and all this. So my father was very, very strict, so I couldn’t say no.

Muslim Background and Cultural Restrictions

Also they are coming from Muslim background. I’m actually not. I baptized eventually. But anyway, it’s another story. So we are coming from Muslim background where a woman doesn’t have really the right to say no. So as a woman, you cannot really speak out about your ideas or desires or opinion.

SHAWN RYAN: So you grew up Muslim?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes. Okay, so Kazakh and Tatarstan, they are Muslim, so they believe in Allah. And my grandmother would read Quran. They didn’t really speak that language. Just because in Soviet Union you had to sort of speak Russian. Everybody, in every school it would be Russian.

So I kind of lost my own language and my parents didn’t speak with me this language. And also in Soviet Union, you were not really allowed to have your own religion. So people who were Christians, Orthodox, they were not really allowed to wear crosses. They were not allowed to go to churches.

I mean, that was crazy. Imagine one of the biggest amazing church, the biggest one in Moscow, in the center’s beautiful church. Communists, they actually destroy it. And they created the swimming pool instead of the church. Can you believe that? That’s the way it was. So they completely tried to demolish and destroy the belief into God in Russian population. So they were trying to.

SHAWN RYAN: Why did they do that?

Soviet Religious Suppression

ALIIA ROZA: Dictatorship of the Soviet Unions, like Stalin. Dictatorship, Lenin’s and all that, of course, because this is the only one religion you should believe. Stalin, this is your father, this is your Tsar, this is your God, everything. So again, propaganda.

SHAWN RYAN: What was the population doing when they were…

ALIIA ROZA: The population? You mean in Soviet Union? I don’t know. I mean, I was a little girl when I was raised in Soviet Union. But my grandmother, with whom I was very close, so she would say it was, I don’t know, but she would say this was the best time just because they would know what would happen tomorrow.

Everybody had the same. Yeah, okay, so that government people, they live like stars or whatever, like kings. But it’s just a small percentage where the 99% of population, they work, they worked. They would work, they would raise the kids, they would have the same salary. They would have the, you know, stability in life. So everybody, everything was the same. So it’s, I don’t know, stability, I guess.

SHAWN RYAN: Gotcha. When did… So you’re a Christian now?

Finding Faith After Trauma

ALIIA ROZA: So I baptized when I was, so straight after the military, I decided to come to the God because I lost belief in everything that moment. And you know, you need to have your inner support. So I came to the God at quite, you know, big age because I understood, I mean, like adult age.

So because I understood that I want to have this belief in God and I want to, I don’t even know how to say, but I just felt like I needed, you know, I felt like this may help me and save me from doing bad things because I tried to suicide. I tried to drug myself. I mean, I was doing really bad things to my body, to myself. It’s really embarrassing to speak about it, but I just don’t believe.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay, we’ll get there. So at 18, am I correct? At 18, is when it all kind of started for you?

ALIIA ROZA: Well, yeah, I mean.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, actually it started from you early because you didn’t realize it, but your dad…

ALIIA ROZA: No, I didn’t. Yeah, so I realized it after.

Recruitment Into Intelligence

SHAWN RYAN: So what happened? I mean, how did you get recruited into being a seductive intelligence operative?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, it’s a whole different. So basically, okay, so let me start from the beginning. So I turn 18, right? I told my dad I want to work in fashion. So I remember his answer. He said, “What is fashion? You have one skirt, one shoes, one blouse. This is your fashion. This is enough.”

“You’re going to this department because I have my friend there who is, you know, who already spoke with him. He can, you know, enroll you at being an agent.” That time it was in the department operative investigation. So I have actually all the certificate archives, documents to show what year I started to work there.

So he brought me to this department, I met my future commander, and I work there as an intern. And then when they approve you and everything, they send you to the academy to study. So because everybody, when they just enter, they have to know at least how to shoot from the gun, right? So you need to go through the education. So they’re special courses.

When you come, you are supposed to study gun shooting, civil law, admin law. That time, everybody would be divided, like different departments would have different subjects. For example, in my department, we would need to study of course martial arts. So how to arrest a criminal, how to read the psychological profile of the criminal.

You know, his tattoos, for example, like his ink on the body. What does it mean? What’s his weakness? What about him? His psychological portrait. So you need to kind of get into there. Then of course, martial arts, like, you know, jiu jitsu and sambo and all that. So for example, you would be in the situation where you have to arrest someone. So you need to protect yourself.

Academy Training

Every day we would shoot from gun of the pistolet Makarov. The gun. The Makarov gun. And we would also do, how to call it. I’m so sorry, you may cut it, but I forgot the… So it’s a subject where you learn how to open the lock.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, okay. Breaching maybe.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. So I don’t really know how to call it in English. But yeah, this sort of subject where you actually learn about technologies for agents.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

ALIIA ROZA: So when I came to the academy, we were about over 300 students.

SHAWN RYAN: For like 300 students.

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: How old is everybody? Young. Is everybody…

ALIIA ROZA: Everybody’s young? Yes, everybody young from 18 and, you know, 20, 25, I think, before 30ish.

SHAWN RYAN: Men and women.

The Special Program

ALIIA ROZA: Men and women. Of course, the percentage of women would be obviously much less. So let’s say like 10% would be female, the rest male. And they would have a separate dorm. Like, male would be living in a separate dorm.

But what happened? So literally in the first day when we had the first line, when we lined up in front of our teachers, I noticed that the main teacher, the commander of the school, the director, let’s say, he looked at me and he picked up me and another few girls. And then we were invited to his office. And then we were announced that we are chosen for a special program. And so we are very privileged.

They would never call it sex espionage. They would never call it honey trap. I understood it only after, but they said that’s a special program which will help you to target those criminals or people whom will be your task. So you need to study the subjects. You need to learn psychology. And then after, you will be given tasks.

This will give you more benefits because you would have better salary, you would have better promotion. You may have additional vacations. And which was like, wow. That time you would be given, you know, that Russians before also they had, and especially in Soviet Union, they had really big problem to travel abroad because of the Iron Curtain. So you couldn’t literally get any visa. So now it’s actually happening the same story.

So that time also it was really hard to travel abroad. So you couldn’t just go to the embassy and get a visa and travel to America? Like no, I mean maybe if you would have a special diplomatic passport or connections or whatever. So when you actually go as this agent, you may be able to fly abroad for special missions. And it’s sort of cool because it sounds like in the movie James Bond. Wow, I will go abroad, I’ll have these special missions and I’ll see the world, blah, blah, blah, you know, for like 18 years old. It sounds fascinating sort of.

So when they announced to me that I am chosen for this program, I was like, okay, cool. You know, I’m happy to study that. And we were like five girls in this special program. So we would go to our main classes. So 6 a.m. would be the first lineup. Like you know, the morning, then jogging, physical activities, blah blah blah. Breakfast, 8 a.m. you have to be in the class. So from 8 to 4, 5 p.m. Depends from if you would have physical activities more or whatever, whatever you would be done.

Then us five girls, you know, we would go to these special classes for another two hours and then we would catch up with our homework for the next day and then that’s it, we would go. So then again also it would be a physical activity, whatever, like jogging or something, then dinner and then you go and sleep in the dorm. So that was our kind of schedule for the day.

Training in Manipulation and Seduction

So every day for a few hours we would study these subjects such as psychological techniques. So for example manipulation techniques, seduction techniques, influence persuasion techniques, how to read and scan people, how to spot the lie, you know, how to set up a strategy for your target. Like this social engineering thing, like how to do it, how to work in the team. How to estimate your target’s weaknesses and desires and needs. How to recruit someone, how to make friends, how to attract people, how to make someone to be your informer again through manipulation.

How to threaten people, your targets particularly, so they would want or they have to give you information you need. And of course additional martial arts, of course additional sex techniques. So we would study some of the sex techniques in terms of the pleasure for men. I would say not particularly your pleasure, but you know, how to please the man.

But also which I find really fascinating. And that’s what I give to my students a lot. And I think this is a foundation and I think this really changed me to who I am right now. So when I entered I was really ugly duckling. I was shy and completely unconfident. So we actually, I didn’t understand that before, but now I really get it. So we’ve started the self confidence techniques to raise your self love. So you become so freaking confident to go to any mission that you don’t even have any doubt that you may fail.

So even now, wherever I go, like public speaking in the Vatican City, like public speaking in United Nations, I was, you know, I told you the story. We were driving here and I had this thought and then I’m like, oh, come on. You know, I always, you know, I know that I can do it. It’s just, it’s amazing how they taught us how to program your brain for a success, even though it’s so hard and you want to give up.

And it helped me. So when I went to the war and I went to the really bad, dangerous missions and I was thinking, that’s it, this is right now, this is the end. But just because of these techniques, I always had this thought like, no, I know that I can go through that. I know I can do it. I know I’ll do it. Like, this is the belief which I didn’t have before, and it was placed and planted into my brain. And I believe that this is the foundation of everything.

SHAWN RYAN: How long is this school?

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, so six months. This is the first initial, most important foundational classes. Then you go back to your department, wherever you were, you’re supposed to work. Then you work, you kind of do the practice. Then going to, when you go to, when you’re getting another rank, for example, high rank, you’re supposed to come back and you would be given more subjects, more techniques. Like you kind of have to be qualified for bigger job, for high rank, you go back again six months. Sometimes you can do it a year.

Other universities, like for example in Moscow and in St. Petersburg actually where Vladimir Putin studied. So there are particular academies where you actually go and you study there as a college for like three, four years. But because I was already enrolled to the International Law University, so I was doing sort of two universities, like two educational at the same time. So studying international law at my university and also was doing this and also after I was working. So yeah, wow.

SHAWN RYAN: So quite a lot of work.

ALIIA ROZA: I mean a lot of education as well.

The Reality of Sexual Abuse

SHAWN RYAN: What point did you realize that sex may be involved?

ALIIA ROZA: Sex?

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah.

ALIIA ROZA: When I was first raped. I was virgin. I came to the part where I was raped.

SHAWN RYAN: So this didn’t, the going through the course and talking about seduction and pleasuring a man and all this kind of stuff, you didn’t realize that it didn’t occur to you that sex would be involved in the job description?

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, so about sex. So as I mentioned, my dad was really strict. So I was not allowed to go out. When I was living with my family till 18 years old, I didn’t even kiss any boy. I didn’t even speak with anyone. I was so shy. I felt like I’m so ugly and all that. So I was, I don’t know, it was like ugly duckling.

So 18 years old. My dad brought me to this department literally in a few weeks, like two weeks. My commander colleague calls. That time we didn’t have cell phones, so he calls to my home phone. My dad obviously picks up as he always did. And it was about like 8 p.m., so it was evening. And my colleague said, oh, we have alarm. Somebody’s killed. Something happened in the city. So she has to come ASAP to our department because we need her to work. And that time I already was enrolled as an intern, okay?

So I had to come. So my dad said, get ready, go. So I come to my department and I see my colleague being already drunk, you know, something shady going on. He closed the door, he takes the case and he literally starts to beat me and rape me.

SHAWN RYAN: And so this is two weeks after raping.

ALIIA ROZA: I was enrolled, yes, to this department. Yet he knew and he saw my father, who was that time high ranking officer bringing me to the commander, where commander approves me as a future agent. He saw that, right? So he didn’t care about this. He said if he will tell you that, you know, your whole family will be fed. The whole reputation will be fed. Like you’d rather not to tell that. Like, because they will blame you because this is your fault.

You see, the manipulation. “You seduced me. This is your fault.” I didn’t do shit. This is your fault. Number two, I was virgin. I told him, I have never done it before. Like I can. Look, it doesn’t matter. Three, you are going to the military academy anyway. You supposed to detach your body from your emotions. This is part of the training. That’s what they do. Your body belongs to the state. Your body belongs to the government. You with your feelings and emotions, it doesn’t exist. The soul doesn’t exist.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

Detachment and Trauma

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, so all these things and then they literally make you to become sort of robotic, where even now, unfortunately, but I cannot do anything about it still now. My body lives completely separate from my emotions. So for example, if I have an intercourse, it doesn’t mean that I have any feelings towards this man. So I still can have an orgasm and all that, but, and it’s all good, but I don’t have any attachment and I cannot, you know, create it because I was trained to remove these feelings and emotions from my body. So my body was just at all in a mission. Wow, it does make sense.

SHAWN RYAN: And you never told your dad?

ALIIA ROZA: Oh, I never told my dad because, I mean, what would I tell him? He brought me there and then what? He would blame all his life that he did it to him. I mean, he did it to me. I don’t want him to blame himself. You know, I never told him. I think he kind of understands that there’s something there.

And you worked in Navy and you know the statistics that about 20%, and this is what we know, 20% annually, 20% of female and also male are targeted for sexual abuse. And 20% are raped in the military. And this is the statistic, just open ChatGPT or Internet and it’s clearly there and it’s only in the U.S. Imagine what’s the percentage in Russian countries like Russia or Ukraine or wherever. Like countries which don’t really, where the law doesn’t really work that much, like in America, it’s probably like 50%.

And when I came to the academy, when I saw that every single female are being sexually abused and basically raped, all of them, all of them, they basically use them as meat. So all teachers, they were male, of course, only two were females who actually taught us all the psychological and sex and seduction techniques. So the rest were males.

And the thing is, in the podcast “To Die For,” actually there is a former CIA agent. He gave an interview, he actually said that, you know, they just sex trafficked their own agents for their own needs. Not just for the government needs, but also for their own needs. Like for example, these teachers, males, right? They knew that they have the power over us, so they could easily just use you for wherever.

And obviously I was stuck there. I didn’t know what to do. I was 18 years old. I was just raped. Then I come to this academy targeted by this colonel, the main teacher. And I mean, we had the whole story and all that. So he literally had me every other day. And I couldn’t do anything about, you know, because he was also manipulating me. He’s like, “Oh, if you won’t do what I say, then you would be kicked out. You would have very big problems. You have problem with your dad. You know, you cannot, you would never be able to work anywhere in Russia because I will write the bad report that you did whatever, illegal things or something.”

So, I mean, that was cruel. And as a woman, as a female in the military, you couldn’t say no.

SHAWN RYAN: So you’re being raped throughout the entire duration of the school. And so are all the other women.

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: Are you guys talking about this with each other?

Checking into the Unit

ALIIA ROZA: We talked about that when we were there and really sadly to say, but some of them, they had to participate in orgies. I definitely didn’t want to do it. I was like, first of all, these male teachers, they were over 50 years old. I’m not saying that 50 is like, whatever, but okay.

When 50 years old man doesn’t take care about himself, doesn’t do gym and workout and doesn’t really… and he looks gross and he’s so abusive and telling you and aggressively telling you, you have to do this. You know, when I came to the office first time to my main teacher, the Colonel, the first thing he said, “Do the blowjob.”

I’m thinking, I’ve never done it before. I have no idea how to do it. And this was when he told me this was part of the program. So you have to. This is practice. You have to learn now, you know, how to do it. So I’ll teach you.

SHAWN RYAN: Was it really part of the program or was it his own needs for his own pleasure?

ALIIA ROZA: Who knows? I think it was second rather than first, because I don’t want to believe that, but maybe both. I don’t know. But I mean, you probably have seen or heard similar stories in military in the United States. I watched that documentary The Invisible War, and there’s so many cases like that.

So it’s happening everywhere. It’s not just in the military, but it’s in any corporation, in any industry where there are more male rather than females. It’s really hard to work and if you’re also more or less younger than them and pretty and all that. So sometimes your appearance and your beauty is a curse rather than a blessing.

Yes, because they particularly chose the most pretty, the most youngest girls and they were like special parameters for this special program, like sexpionage as we call it right now. But the first thing, everybody has to be about 5’6″ tall. Second, they would run us through the intellectual sort of IQ test. Then psychologist. So we spoke with the psychologist.

So we had to be mentally strong and prepared. What if something happens? Are we strong enough to be in unpredictable, difficult, extreme situations? We were checked by gynecologist in order to see are we healthy? And then if you tick all the boxes, then you go to this program.

SHAWN RYAN: What did they tell you that program was?

ALIIA ROZA: They didn’t say anything. They didn’t say, “Oh, it’s a honeytrap or whatever.” They said it’s a special program. You will be learning special techniques which you’re not allowed to share with anyone. Everything in this wall staying here. That’s it.

So just a few of you, a few of you because you’re chosen. They don’t call you “swallows” or “sparrows” or spies. They don’t call that. But they say this is a special subjects for you to learn. So it will be helpful for your future missions. That’s it.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow, interesting.

Recruiting Future Agents

ALIIA ROZA: I do believe that, to be honest, I do believe that every single military academy or any educational center, potentially, not like… but I do believe that they have that sort of programs. They just scout these future agents for this sort of mission. So they scout them through students, through students in good universities or maybe somebody who already established.

There’s so many examples of the sexpionage from actresses and famous singers and famous beautiful women.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you have some examples?

ALIIA ROZA: I do have some examples which I definitely know. I cannot reveal their names because they’re very public and you definitely know them. But they work with the Russian government and at the same time they are very recognizable women in the public eye.

SHAWN RYAN: How do you know this?

ALIIA ROZA: Because I’ve seen them there. I know, but I would never let down their cover. I would never do that because, you know, it’s… some people ask me, “Oh, why don’t you say?”

But guys, I just want to explain how does it work. It’s not like you willingly want to do it. Sometimes you are put into these situations where, let’s say people, government people would tell you, “If you will not do this task, if you will not do this mission, then either your family will have some problems or your kids or your beloved ones, they may be having a car accident or they may go to jail.”

So you feel like I’d rather sacrifice myself than put on risk my family. So these people which I just mentioned, without names, I know they’re doing this not willingly. They have to do it because of their family living in Russia.

Citizenship and Deportation

SHAWN RYAN: Where is your citizenship?

ALIIA ROZA: Great. So that’s also… I have to be also very careful with what I’m saying and it’s a big risk for me also to… well, it’s a few things I will explain now. So my citizenship still Russian. Thank God and thank to America and God bless America. I received my green card.

For about 15 years I lived in Europe. After last Russian mission, I lived in Europe. I lived in Switzerland, Greece, Italy, France, England, in London six years. So Czech, all those places. Yeah.

So check this out. The moment the government, the UK government probably find out about my background, the moment when I was invited to the Buckingham Palace where I met King Charles and Queen Elizabeth, that time he was Prince. Literally in a few months, my lawyer received a letter stating that I have to leave the UK during two weeks period of time.

So I was literally deported from the UK, still having my residency there. So I couldn’t go back to Russia because of so many reasons. The only one visa I had that time was United States. So I come to United States, I speak with many, many good lawyers, with a lot of lawyers, and they all advise me the same thing.

They tell me that I should, because of United States, I should reveal my identity publicly because also that time Ukrainian war starts straight after, like Covid. Right? So it was Covid, then this crazy time. Everything gets closed and blocked and it’s a mess. Then Ukraine war.

So I’m in this situation and my lawyer said, “Well, you have to reveal your identity, just not to be deported.” Like it was in 2010, I believe, when 10 active agents from Russia were deported, including Anna Chapman. So if you don’t want to be deported, if you want to be legal in America, it’s better for you, for your insurance, for your protection, to reveal your identity publicly. This is number one.

Number two, I also had to cut tails coming from Russia because, I mean, I know it sounds crazy, maybe, but actually one Russian girl was sent to me from Moscow when Ukrainian war started and everything to convince me to go back to Russia, or if I don’t want to go, trying to convince me to work with them again.

Then I have received a former colleague call just before the Ukrainian war started, asking the same thing. Not asking, but kind of like, “You should consider working with the government, with the Russian government.” And then it was another call from more like government sort of person with the same request.

Going Public

So I honestly will tell you this. I want to live without fear because I’m exhausted to live for so many years hiding myself, hiding my son, moving from one country to another. I am exhausted, physically, mentally, morally, everything. I’m so done. I don’t want to play all these games anymore.

I want to do fashion things like I always wanted and I always dream. And finally I’m doing this for myself, for my son as well. So I don’t want to be attached. I don’t want to be connected. I don’t want to do anything with this government stuff anymore.

And I decided to go public to kind of reveal my identity. Yet Aliia Roza is not my real ID name, obviously, because of, again, the security reasons. But at least these calls and these requests from Russian government, from Russian government people have stopped since I started to go public.

At least I have received my freedom to live in United States sort of freely, without being… then here. I’m so done with that. And I don’t want to do this, and I don’t want to be used anymore. I don’t want to be manipulated anymore, even though I do have fears for my members of the family who are there. And of course they have fears for my son’s future.

Yes, I understand it’s a big risk, but they say you choose less evil when it’s two evils. So I’d rather reveal my identity and tell the truth here in America to American people, rather than work for the Russian government and being, again, like this. And God knows what would happen with me after. And my son, especially during the Ukrainian war. And it’s still on, and it’s super crazy, and it’s just such a mess.

SHAWN RYAN: Where is your son?

ALIIA ROZA: My son is always with me, everywhere. He’s a traveler, like me. He’s always… he’s at home. I mean, he goes to the school, but he’s at home.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

ALIIA ROZA: How did they contact you to try to get you to come back?

SHAWN RYAN: All the apps, like WhatsApp. They didn’t have my American telephone, but I have a very old WhatsApp because I didn’t change it. I kept it. I kept the number. So WhatsApp, emails. I changed.

SHAWN RYAN: What do they say?

ALIIA ROZA: Well, the main request is “Live here, but report us everything you see and everything you know. Go to Washington, live in Washington, or at least New York, and try to establish this relationship with politicians, ministers, and so on.”

That’s why I honestly stay away from Washington as further as I can. That’s why I kind of chose to be in LA, because Los Angeles is entertainment, Hollywood. You know, it’s all movies, scripted fashion especially. It’s all social media influencing and all that. So I’m trying to stay away as far as I can from politics.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, good thinking.

ALIIA ROZA: I mean, what can I do? I try to do my best in this balance.

SHAWN RYAN: Let’s take a quick break, and then we’ll get into some of your missions.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay.

SHAWN RYAN: Sound good?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

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All right, Aliia, we’re back from the break, and so we’re getting ready to get into what happens once you get in the unit. So we kind of went through your training, your schooling, and all that kind of stuff. And so what is it like when you actually check into the unit as a trained operative? Well, what is the unit called?

ALIIA ROZA: So the unit… the first… so I was in two units.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

ALIIA ROZA: In Russia. So one unit precisely would be called Operators Investigation Department. I don’t know what’s the similarity in the U.S. The second one, it’s sort of like DEA. Okay, so it’s a drug enforcement department.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. So it’s the first one. I don’t know what’s the…

SHAWN RYAN: Probably like the FBI. Sounds like an investigative unit.

ALIIA ROZA: It is investigation, but it was locally in the city or sometimes in the country, but also internationally. For example, when we were working on the cases on, you know, the two countries between Afghanistan and Russia. So, for example, this was the international, or by that time when I was already working, it was Russia separated from all these post-Soviet countries.

SHAWN RYAN: Gotcha.

Gathering Intelligence on the Target

ALIIA ROZA: So again, it was international, but there were so many left connections with those countries, and so much crime was going on between these countries. And then again, don’t forget, it was pre-historical revolution. Then after, it was the time when all this criminal world just blossomed at some point because there were no very strong political…

SHAWN RYAN: Repercussions.

ALIIA ROZA: Right. So there were so many criminals, let’s say that time, who were privatizing the Russian assets for a very small amount of money. Like, let’s say 50 bucks for a factory or 50 bucks for a huge piece of land.

And eventually, after some time, when Vladimir Putin became the president, those criminals would legalize the businesses and would become oligarchs. Right. So some oligarchs would be quite friendly working with Vladimir Putin. I will not get into these details because you can read the book which was written by so many former agents, including Litvinenko, and some of them would disappear forever, killed or just flee the country and hide themselves.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow. So how… so, sorry, I’m just trying to wrap my head around this. So you went through the training at the schoolhouse. Now, was the training at the schoolhouse specifically for the Operative Investigations Unit, or was it for the DEA one? Or is this kind of a… they mold you and then whatever agency needs you, picks you up?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, that’s correct. Yes. So it was basically, they teach you all the stick. Okay? So you have ordinary basic instructions and subjects you study, like gun shooting, martial arts, and laws.

With these knowledges, you enter your department and then you just have your mission and practice it. However, we received additional education for additional missions which were classified, so they were not really open for any agency. Like, some agents would be picked up for particular mission.

SHAWN RYAN: Gotcha. Yes, gotcha. So this is just a pipeline into the federal government. So let me… so here in the US for example, if you’re going to go to the NSA, you’re going to go be trained by the NSA. If you’re going to go CIA, you’re going to be trained and go to the CIA schools. If you’re going to go to the FBI, you’re going to be trained by the FBI and go to the FBI schools. So in Russia it’s an intelligence school, and then whatever agency needs you will pick you up.

The Russian Intelligence Structure

ALIIA ROZA: It is same as in United States. Right. However, these particular programs which, I don’t know how many in Russia there are, but that’s what I studied. That was particular for your department or perhaps another department would do a particular mission and then they would require some female agents for these missions.

So for example, as the, let’s say DEA agents, we would work together with some other agents from another department because they would provide us some security, let’s say, in transportation or like they would be like SWAT agents but it doesn’t call SWAT. But I’m saying like those with whom we would work in actually going to arrest those targets.

So it kind of like mixed sort of, but we would still… so if my commander would allocate me for another mission, I would need to go there to another department. That’s actually how I moved from one department to another department because they actually required me to come there.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay, so you’re actually… you are attached. Okay. You are on a special unit that’s just farmed out to whoever is needing you at the time.

ALIIA ROZA: So you know, Putin that time in 2002, exactly the year, was working there, established FSKN. So FSKN, it was… you can also Google it and check it online. So FSKN, it was a special department, sort of DEA, but fighting against drug trafficking, coming particular from Afghanistan because that time it was like a huge transportation.

But then a few years later, Putin dissolved it. I don’t know why, but just basically restructured. And then this FSKN was under the FSB, which is the…

SHAWN RYAN: You mean in Russia when a government agency does its job and doesn’t need to do anything else, they just dissolve it and it goes away and then the funding gets reallocated to…

ALIIA ROZA: It was existing for 10 years approximately. I don’t know why dissolve it. You see, I don’t know this kind of things. But there were so many restructures since 1991. It was KGB, right? And Soviet KGB, et cetera. Then it was renamed to Werner which is external investigation. Right. And then FSB, which is local.

So then under FSB, there would be different other departments which were particularly doing some other missions or some other jobs or some other cases. But if there is a big case or mission going on, they would allocate particular agents for this mission. Doesn’t matter from what department you are.

Especially with females. There are not so many female agents working in the departments, maybe like 10%. But as a bait, you need the female. They would invite you and… yeah.

Using Seduction as an Intelligence Tool

SHAWN RYAN: So I’m getting a little ahead of myself here. But so… if… so your job is not to necessarily sleep with criminals and arrest them. It is a tool that they have taught you how to use.

ALIIA ROZA: I think I was a bait, basically. So let me just kind of picture one of my missions, for example. So I come in the morning to the lineup meeting for the first meeting with our commander in the department.

SHAWN RYAN: This is your first mission?

ALIIA ROZA: No, not first mission, like let’s say one of the missions. So we come to the department in the morning for the lineup meeting. Right. They give you mission and they allocate particular agents for this mission.

So you have this mission. Then you go with the head of this little team of your team. You go and you brainstorm the strategy. How you’re supposed to infiltrate certain group of criminals or whoever. Like how to spy on them, how to get informers, how to send someone there, or how to recruit them.

Most of them, of course, were men. Obviously, using me as a bait to get closer would be the perfect ideal scenario. We would go together, let’s say with one or two of my team members, spy on the mission. So we would literally sit down in the car, or we would be somewhere outside, not too close, so he wouldn’t notice us.

But we would, in the beginning, just see what’s his inner circle. Right. Do pictures, basically, like the whole thing, like the whole spying. Then we would gather information about our target and then we would install…

SHAWN RYAN: What kind of information?

ALIIA ROZA: Everything. Like, how many sugars does he put into his coffee? Like everything from A to B. Like, what time does he wake up? Where does he go? What does he do? Whom does he meet? What do they do, what they talk about? Of course, you put all the bugs and everything as much as you can. You try to listen what they’re talking about. Like basically everything.

SHAWN RYAN: Like, how long would you do this for?

ALIIA ROZA: Depends from the target. So the last target, for example, we were establishing the social engineering for about three months before I actually was introduced to him.

SHAWN RYAN: Before you made an approach?

Building the Perfect Setup

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, the first approach. It was like three months of intense work. Yes, but we had to create the whole setup for him. So, for example, I mean, it sounds like a movie plot, but it’s kind of cool what secret intelligence can do actually, or like anyone can do.

Do you remember the movie… have you seen the movie “The Game” with Michael Douglas? No, it’s an old movie. Another movie also, which is closest, so it’s easy to explain. “Focus” with Margot Robbie and Will Smith.

SHAWN RYAN: What’s it called?

ALIIA ROZA: “Focus.”

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t think I’ve seen that.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, so I mean, if your guys, your audience know this movie, they will understand or they can go and watch this movie. So basically, how does it work? So my target, let’s say, let’s go to Vladimir. Vladimir target.

So what we needed to find out about him, first of all, what are his weaknesses, what his needs, what his desires, apart from being the leader of the criminal group, having power, money and blah, blah, blah. What is his personality? What is he seeking for? What is his goal? You know, what’s his psychological portrait?

So we would go back to his childhood. When he was a teenager. We find out that he was in love. He had a relationship with his sweetheart, a girl from Uzbekistan.

SHAWN RYAN: How are you finding this information out?

ALIIA ROZA: Easy.

SHAWN RYAN: Social media?

ALIIA ROZA: No, no, no. That time social media didn’t really exist. It was 2004. We hardly had smart… no, we didn’t have smartphones. I remember had Motorola, you know, like that little telephone.

So how you basically, it’s actually really easy. You just basically find out what school did he study? And then you just pretend that you, one of the relatives, like trying to find him or whatever. You just get information from these old ladies working there, let’s say former teachers, and just get information.

It’s quite easy if you go and ask people about someone. I still do that when I need to find out information about someone. I just go and speak with people. What do you think about this person? Do you know him? How do you know him?

SHAWN RYAN: Like, would it have bothered you if any of those people reached out to the target and said, “Hey, squirrel. Aliia, she’s running around here”?

The Setup and Psychological Manipulation

ALIIA ROZA: Well, first of all, you don’t say your name. Second, it wouldn’t be me if I was the main bait, if I was the main face in this mission. It wouldn’t be me. It actually was my colleague who was a young guy.

“Oh, I lost my army friend. I don’t live here. I just want to find out where he is, what does he do, where does he live? What’s happening with him? We lost each other for so many years. I want to see him.” Be like, “We’ve been through the whole army time,” blah, blah, blah. And you bring some chocolates or some cake to this old teacher from the school. Of course she would tell you everything. “Let’s drink tea, let’s speak about that time,” blah, blah, blah.

So we find out that this target, Vladimir, had a relationship with his sweetheart, that girl from Uzbekistan, apparently. But she didn’t wait for him because, as you know, in Russia it’s compulsory—every male has to go to the army for two years from 18 years old. So he went to the army, but she didn’t wait for him. She got married.

So when he came back, she was already married to another guy. He was sort of heartbroken. He gave up on this dream to have a loving wife and potentially a family with her. He kind of became this rough, aggressive guy who would just use women for sex and just be very… not like an alpha male, but just having women for pleasure. Nothing serious, no attachment, no emotional attachment because he was hurt before.

But somewhere deep inside, every human being wants to believe that there is a possibility in mutual love, that every human being wants to be loved not because of something, but just literally to be loved for who he is.

Planting the Seeds

So what we did when we gathered the information—very slowly, very subtly—wherever this target was walking out from the gym, going into the restaurant, or walking in the street or whatever, we would place a few separate couples.

One couple: young, nice-looking guy, sort of looking like Vladimir, tall. All Russians, more or less tall, blue eyes, good-looking, wearing military uniform, same as Vladimir would wear many years ago when he was in the army, holding hands with a girl more or less looking like his sweetheart from the past. So they would be just walking around, kissing each other.

Even though Vladimir wouldn’t look precisely at this couple, his peripheral vision, his backside vision would register that. Your brain registers everything what’s going on around you, even though you don’t notice, but your brain does. So this is very subtle installation and manipulation.

Basically, when you plant something into someone’s head, then another day, another story, another place, again, another couple. The guy, another guy would wear the military uniform with another girl, but same sort of looking like his sweetheart. She would be pregnant, so they would hold hands, kissing each other, like love is in the air.

Then again, another day, another setup, another place. There would be a similar guy, but another one wearing the uniform with another girl, but looking like his first sweetheart. They would have a carriage with a little baby, with a newborn baby. And again, same story—love is in the air. They kiss each other, holding hands, happy family.

Again, Vladimir wouldn’t look at them like, “Oh, whatever,” but still, his brain would register that.

The Introduction

And when the time was right, when my colleague, that time, who was already undercover—so he pretended to be one of the drug dealers—he would basically get the drugs from Vladimir’s criminal gang, distribute it, bring the money, right? And then he would get to know Vladimir. He would establish trust with him and he would slowly introduce him to sort of these easygoing girls in the club.

Not prostitutes particularly, but kind of like, “Oh, you know, she’s a student, she’s lonely, she’s like this and this. You’re such a powerful guy, maybe you can hang out with her,” this sort of thing. Club girls.

So he would introduce him to some girls, but less good-looking, because we would know more or less his style, Vladimir’s taste. And by that time I already had a sort of image of his sweetheart’s style. Like what did she wear before? She was wearing particular white socks and short skirts and braids and all that.

So when I would meet him, I would do exactly the same look, appearance. So when my colleague introduced me to Vladimir, it was already… and his brain would be like, “What if she looks exactly like that girl? What if there is a possibility I may be loved by her, really, and she would stay loyal to me? What if I may have a chance with her and have a family with her?”

What if? Instead of just like, “Hi, my name is so and so, let’s go to the room.” Everything has to be very subtle, like a little game. And you don’t even understand that you are in the game, but you still… Yeah, it’s a beautiful setup. It takes time, but anyone can be influenced.

The First Mission

SHAWN RYAN: Can we talk about your first mission?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you remember it?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: What was it?

ALIIA ROZA: So it was one of the kind of foreign but not. So it’s basically a post-Soviet country government person who had some information. The first mission was actually… I was sharing this in the podcast. I had to place an envelope without him knowing who exactly placed it. He may have had some ideas or doubts or whatever, but he that time should not know that it was particularly me placing the envelope.

So I literally had to pretend that I was a prostitute in the bar in the hotel where he was staying that time. And I had to seduce him, get into the room.

SHAWN RYAN: And how did you seduce him?

ALIIA ROZA: How should I recreate the whole scene? Oh God.

SHAWN RYAN: What was in the envelope?

ALIIA ROZA: I could not open it. Okay, so it was sealed, right? It was… how do you call it in English? Sealed.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, sealed.

ALIIA ROZA: Sealed, yes, something like that. So the envelope was sealed. I couldn’t open it. And yet if I would open it and know it, I wouldn’t be able to share it, just for my own security, for my life.

So I had to give him the envelope. The only way how I could place it was in a private place. So obviously it has to be in his room where nobody would distract him or wherever. So I couldn’t be… I wouldn’t be able to do it in the bar or wherever, because again, many people, many eyes and all this.

So how did I seduce him?

The Approach

SHAWN RYAN: Very simple, because he had never seen you before. And so you’re showing up undercover with the cover of a prostitute. How many women are in the bar?

ALIIA ROZA: Not so many. We all do understand when a man comes to the bar with friends or alone to have a drink, most likely he’s open for conversation with a beautiful female, right? Otherwise, if you don’t want to, you wouldn’t come. If you’re tired or wherever, you go sleep to your room. So you obviously want some adventures.

Two: when the mission is like that, when you don’t need to establish trust, when you don’t need to establish love, long-term relationship—one night stand—it’s very easy to organize from a woman’s perspective. Show me any man who would say no to a one-night stand. Nobody would say no. I mean, unless it’s a very ugly person. But we’re talking about spies, agents. So they’re supposed to take care about themselves and look presentable.

Number three: he was there for a few days. I already knew—I was given information—that he was recently married and recently had a newborn. Obviously a man who just has a little baby at home, it’s big work. Those who have kids understand. So the wife is busy with the kid. The little kid is crying. It’s not the same like it was before.

So for him it was easier to just have some sort of adventures and relax time for himself because he’s on a business meeting. But at the same time, why not have some romantic emotions just for one night? Who would know? No one. Right. So that’s why it’s an easy target.

SHAWN RYAN: What about the other women at the bar that time? How do you know that you’re going to be the one that walks out of that bar?

ALIIA ROZA: So yeah, first of all there weren’t so many. I think, well, as much as I remember, there were like a couple of women. Second, I was the most beautiful. I was, first of all, I was that time already skilled. Second, obviously that time I was the youngest one. And third, I was wearing the most revealing clothes I could possibly wear.

SHAWN RYAN: So how did you approach him?

ALIIA ROZA: Very easy. About the drink. It’s one of the common things. You actually can approach any man if you want to meet someone. You start with the drink. “What are you drinking? What would you recommend to drink here? How often do you come here? Do you like this bar?” There’s so many questions you can ask. So many.

And you can from one… “Oh, you’re not here? It’s your first time here? Oh, aren’t you from here? Where are you traveling from? Where do you live?” And then you go on and you start the whole conversation. And then it’s easy. Ha ha hi he. Like, “Yeah, why don’t we go…” And then after a couple drinks it’s easy to say yes to a pretty girl.

And then you always can find an excuse. “Oh, I really want to go to the toilet, but I need to do it in private. Can I go to your room?” “Oh, I need to change something.” Or you can spill something on yourself and say, “Oh my God, my dress is dirty. Can I please go and wash my dress in your room?” There’s so many things. You can get into the room of the man if you really need.

Completing the Mission

SHAWN RYAN: So you get him in the room?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: When do you find the time?

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, so when he was in the toilet, when he was in the shower. That’s it. So the suitcase that time—I mean, now probably it would be much harder—but that time suitcases were not with special lockers or whatever. So it was quite easy to open it, place it. It was just little clickers. Click, open, put the envelope through all these papers, and then close it. And that’s it. Voilà. You didn’t do anything.

SHAWN RYAN: Did you sleep with him?

ALIIA ROZA: With him? Actually, I didn’t.

SHAWN RYAN: You didn’t?

ALIIA ROZA: No, I didn’t because I… it was my first mission. I was scared and I didn’t want to. I just… I don’t know. It’s just I wasn’t ready. Okay. I wasn’t ready and I just… and he was sort of gross to me. I didn’t want to. He was overweight, just… so I sort of manipulated him on his family.

So he physically couldn’t get hard. Sorry to say. He maybe wanted to, but he couldn’t because I constantly was talking about his wife and his kid. Particularly because his kid was a newborn girl, baby, baby girl. And of course he loves her. Of course, it’s his first experience.

And when you mix together kids, feeling together with the sexual desire and all that, the sexual desire would be kind of… won’t work that much. If you wouldn’t talk about kids, it’s sort of like bringing a kid into the sexual conversation.

So we had a really nice conversation though. He was a really nice guy. He even gave me some money, some cash. I made a profit.

SHAWN RYAN: It’s generally how it works with prostitution. So I’m told.

The Envelope Mission and Vulnerability

ALIIA ROZA: But at least I didn’t compromise my cover. So maybe when he finds out this envelope, he wouldn’t even think about me. I don’t know. So we had a really nice conversation though. And as much as I remember, he was really nice and kind guy. And we were constantly talking about his family.

And then in the end he said, actually we didn’t have a lot of time, which was good. We only had like about maybe 40 minutes or an hour because he had to wake up for a meeting or whatever early. And he told me, “I don’t have a lot of time.” So I was pushing into conversation.

And then he said, “Thank you so much for this conversation. It was so important. I wanted to speak out with someone, but I can’t, right? Because I couldn’t tell these things to my wife or to anyone.” So it was so nice to speak with me because I was a random person and he would share with me all his thoughts. See also vulnerability.

SHAWN RYAN: What were you targeting him for?

ALIIA ROZA: For giving this envelope. That was only my task.

SHAWN RYAN: Dude, you don’t know what? Why? Was he a criminal?

The Academy and the Colonel

ALIIA ROZA: No, no, he wasn’t a criminal. So I was in the academy at that time. It was my first task from my teacher. I don’t know. So I don’t know exactly why she sent me there. I would think she sent me there to make me feel… Because that time she had relationship with the Colonel and it was a love triangle, sort of. It was never love for me.

But the Colonel, when he sexually raped me, and the first one who said, when I entered his office, he said to me, “Do a blowjob.” He was the one who actually, over time, fell in love and protected me from having sex with the rest of teachers and actually with the rest of whoever, like colleagues or whatever. So he was my shield that time where I used him to protect me.

But then things went wrong when he approached me with the engagement ring.

SHAWN RYAN: This is while you’re in school or after school?

ALIIA ROZA: This is already after.

SHAWN RYAN: This is after school. So the relationship with him continued.

ALIIA ROZA: So the relationship went on. Yes. And so basically, I share all the story in Sedipho, but I’m just trying to make it short for your audience to understand.

SHAWN RYAN: So we don’t need to make it short.

Using Seduction as a Shield

ALIIA ROZA: Oh, really? I mean, okay. Okay, so. But I’ll try to make it short. I mean, it’s 17 episodes. I was talking for 20 hours. I don’t think we have 20 hours here.

Okay, so when he took advantage from me first, I decided that I’d rather use him as my shield because I didn’t want to be used by other men in the academy because I’ve seen and I’ve heard so many stories of my classmates. So I said, no way I’m doing that.

So I was like, okay, because he has the highest rank, because he has the highest respect, and he is the boss, sort of. I decided that I will play along and I will learn all the seduction techniques and use the seduction techniques on him in order for him to sort of fall in love, be more interested, but also protect me. Because I knew that he wants you.

SHAWN RYAN: You wanted him to want you all to himself so that you didn’t have to…

ALIIA ROZA: Correct.

SHAWN RYAN: …correct.

The Marriage Proposal and Betrayal

ALIIA ROZA: So he wouldn’t want to share my body with anyone else. So I decided to play, you know, this card. And it did work because he also had other sexual relationship with other students. And also with this female teacher who sent me to this first mission.

And after some time he established this trust because he told me he loved me. And he decided to get divorced and marry me. Where it was not my plan. My plan was to have this cover of his name as much as I could in order not to be used by anyone else or not to be sent to really bad missions.

Because what happened when I said no to his marriage? I literally didn’t say no, but he understood that I wasn’t really happy about that because, first of all, obviously I didn’t love him. Second, he was the first abuser and manipulator. And three, he was 30 years older, married guy that time. So what the heck, right?

Yeah. Okay. I had to play along because I didn’t have any other choice but going into serious relationship. Imagine if I would be stuck with him for all these years. I mean, it would be terrible. So he understood my answer was negative. I didn’t really say no.

What he does, what he did, he sends me to another department, to his sort of friend, just to say before he actually tried to pass me to his friend in order to have a revenge. So that man, my future commander, actually was the one who was very corrupted. And knowing all this situation with Vladimir, he still did it.

He sent me over there knowing that eventually he would give up my name. Because he actually was already working with Vladimir’s colleagues and army friend who was the one who was bringing… He had all connections because of the Afghanistan war and all that. He was fighting there before. So he had all the connections.

He was the one who would bring all the heroin to Russia through Vladimir’s gang and then distribute it to Russia and Europe. So that commander actually wanted to get rid of Vladimir because Vladimir eventually wanted to legalize himself, he wanted to become a businessman. He wanted to get rid of the drug business because he had money enough, he had power enough.

So he wanted to do more legalized business and become sort of like oligarch. Whereas my, that commander, he still wanted some black cash, some corruption, bribery money. Not through Vladimir, because he doesn’t want it. So he decided to remove or get rid of or terminate or wherever Vladimir, in order to place this guy, his protege who was bringing drugs from Afghanistan to his position and make him a new drug lord, the leader of the criminal gang.

The Setup

So in any way it was a setup for me, if you look through my eyes onto my story. My commander didn’t really care about that. I would be killed, I wouldn’t be killed, I would survive or something may happen to me, it doesn’t matter because it still was a setup and it was a successful setup.

Because eventually when Vladimir finds out that I was a mole and all that, yes, he saved me, yes, he sacrificed his life. But eventually the commander won. He placed this guy into Vladimir’s position and they were continuing going on.

Eventually, after certain years, I find out in the news that this commander got caught and he went to jail. So eventually the justice, thank God.

SHAWN RYAN: Caught up with him.

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, eventually. But it took years.

SHAWN RYAN: How long was Vladimir a target of yours?

ALIIA ROZA: About eight months.

SHAWN RYAN: Eight months.

ALIIA ROZA: Of the relationship? Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: Is this who you fell in love with?

Love and Trust Issues

ALIIA ROZA: You see press, they all say I fell in love. I didn’t fall, honestly. Shawn, I even doubt I can actually… I have ever been in love, to be honest. I don’t know if I can actually experience this feeling to a man.

Unfortunately, I don’t think I can because I’m looking at myself over these years. I’m like, you know, this one was target, this one was target. I had to do this, I had to do this. Have I ever chosen any man just for myself? You know.

SHAWN RYAN: There’s always an ulterior motive.

ALIIA ROZA: Well, now when I’m out of… I mean, I’m in America right now. Yes. So I’m out of all this missions and whatever. I’m by myself all these years. I don’t know what is it? Maybe it’s my problem with trust. Maybe I have a trust issue.

So maybe because I find… Sorry, I find men when I meet them, quite boring. I mean, they’re really nice men. And there’s so many amazing men and I just don’t know, it’s just… It doesn’t work for me. Or maybe I haven’t met the right man who would understand my vision and the way I think and what I understand.

Because more or less, especially in America. And that’s why I do understand why all these kind and quite naive tech CEOs and executives in Silicon Valley are so easily targeted by female spies. Because they are just very sweet and very nice and they are really naive. And that’s true.

But when you’re naive at the same time you kind of… For me, it’s not the challenge. It’s not. I want brain stimulation, you know, apart from just physical activities. You want to speak with the person about something. Right. And when I don’t have to speak about or share my vision or my thoughts, I don’t find it interesting.

And then, you know, the poet said, Omar Khayyam said, it’s better to be by yourself rather than with anyone else. So I decided for now to just focus on my work and do my best. And then we’ll see.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you enjoy sex now?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, of course I do.

SHAWN RYAN: You do? So then you do.

ALIIA ROZA: Listen, I was really dealing with a man. Every single time I have sex, I have intercourse, I receive my orgasm.

SHAWN RYAN: You do?

The Science of Female Pleasure and Self-Confidence

ALIIA ROZA: Always. Every single time. I will explain why this is also part of the program of the training. So, as you know, I studied in Kinsey Institute. That’s where I found out that 80% of females in the world actually do not experience orgasm with their partners during intercourse. Which means that they don’t know their body.

And I have a lot of female students, they’ll come and they say the same, like, “I’m not happy in my marriage, I don’t experience orgasms, I have to pretend.” So that’s what’s happening when females pretend that she has an orgasm. And obviously man, if he’s not that stupid or dumb, he can feel it and he can see that. He may not say it or whatever, but over time that would be a problem between the couple, right?

So what we’ve been taught, I hope some female audience understand me, but female orgasm is a female responsibility. No man knows your body or what you really like. You have to know your body yourself. You have to know what do you like, what’s your erogenous zones, what gives you pleasure? Where are your sensual spots and everything.

And then when you study your body, you know what do you like? You show it to your partner and you tell him, “I like this, I like that. Let’s try this, let’s try that.” So together you have this amazing journey to experience, you know, female pleasure and hence male pleasure. Because it’s the highest pleasure for a man to give an orgasm to a woman. Am I right?

So in our program, obviously when we came, I was virgin, I didn’t have any understanding what is sex. So we’ve studied, actually I’ll give you one crazy technique, but please don’t judge me.

The Mirror Technique: Programming Confidence

So we’ve studied this. One of the effective techniques for self-confidence, esteem, to believe in yourself and look at yourself as you are the most beautiful for yourself, of course. You’re the most beautiful, you’re the goddess, you believe in yourself, you are the best and accept your body. Because you know, we’re all human beings, we don’t like this, we don’t like that. Or like here we have cellulite or whatever, this is normal. But we need to program our brain only on positive beautiful features of our bodies and face.

So what do we do as females? Maybe it can work for men too, I don’t know. So you need to stand in front of the big mirror so you can see yourself fully. Ideally you would need to make yourself comfortable. So maybe play some nice music, put like scented candle, maybe you should dance or whatever, maybe have a bath. Just please yourself in terms of making yourself comfortable. So nobody should disturb you and distract you.

Then depends. You can use sex toys, you can use your fingers, whatever is comfortable. You start to please yourself. And the moment you bring yourself to this peak of the orgasm, you need to anchor your brain. So basically program your brain.

What do you do? You look into your mirror and that’s very important. You’re naked or you’re not naked, doesn’t matter. So you basically experience the highest peak of the orgasm, right? That moment. So that moment is the most effective.

You should first of all anchor yourself on the word. Choose one word, maybe two, but something short. For example, “I’m the queen, I’m the best.” Or you can say, “You are the best.” Whatever you can say, even man, whatever. Choose your word and say it out loud so your brain remembers that.

Then if you want to make it more effective, touch your body. Find a spot on your body and touch it. So it could be anything. For example, could be like a little finger on your right hand. It could be like, you know, shoulder, neck, like this or maybe like hair, whatever. Wherever you choose, find a physical anchor on your body. So this is another anchor.

Plus if you want a particular man and you want to seduce him and you know exactly that this is your target, ideally you should place his photo on that mirror, on the wall, wherever, so you can see him. And when you experience an orgasm, you look at this image and better to say his name, this word. So you kind of create this bridge between this image and your brain.

The Biological Response

So what will happen when you will see next time this target? Your brain will automatically release endorphin, hormones and pheromones. Pheromones is the scent which everybody can create. Plus of course you can use a special perfume which actually KGB used to have this special ingredients in the perfume which contains some grass and all that which actually attracts attention.

So your brain instantly creates these impulses in your body. So your cheeks are blushing, your eyes are sparkling. So you’re getting into the mood of pre-orgasmic mood. So your target, this guy, obviously he sees that, he notices that. I mean isn’t it amazing? You see a woman who’s looking at you like with this, “I want you right now here,” you know?

But this is for seducing a mission, I mean the target. But when you do it for yourself, anchoring yourself and you do it a few times, the moment you feel anxiety, the moment you feel shy, or the moment you feel uncertain or in doubts or you stress, you touch yourself into this anchor where you placed on your body and you tell yourself the same word. “I’m the best.” Again, same story.

The brain will create these pheromone impulses, these endorphin hormones, the happiness hormones, this state of confidence and the state of bliss that you are the best. And you walk into the room with this, you know, random people. Or you walk wherever you go, like pitching for the new business or wherever or for a date. And you have already this posture, you have already this presence, you have this vibrations, this aura and this energy. It does work for me.

So yes, about orgasms, the sex. Yes. With this technique, since I learned this technique, every single time and every single my ex sex partners I had intercourse with, I have experienced orgasms. So it’s not really about the man, dear ladies, it’s about your own body and awareness of your own body and knowing how to give yourself pleasure.

It’s not about even the size or techniques like the movement of the man, of your partner. No, it’s all about your body. If you’re comfortable with your body, if you know your body, you will adapt yourself towards these movements. The angle of your body, the angle of your hips or maybe positions. Everybody’s body is different and unique. But all of us, we have our sensible spots in the body so we can adjust our body towards our partner’s body. And it will be much easier rather than blame your partner and tell like “you are bad in sex.”

Physical Attraction Without Emotional Connection

SHAWN RYAN: Interesting. So you’re attracted to men and you can receive pleasure from men, but mentally you have no emotional attachment.

ALIIA ROZA: Mentally, I’m not attracted. Oh my God. Yeah, I think so. No, don’t get me wrong. I really want to fall in love. I want to experience that.

SHAWN RYAN: Wait, you don’t find men attractive?

ALIIA ROZA: I don’t. So I find them attractive physically. But when I start to speak with them, I’m bored. If it does make sense. I’m sorry, does it make sense?

I’ve seen so much and I’ve been through so much that sometimes when I hear them, I’m like, it’s like speaking with my son, like teenagers sort of thing, you know. And I try 60 years old and I try even 70 years old, same story. It’s not about the age, believe me. It’s about experience. It’s really about experience.

Funny enough, just recently I was at the conference and I met, I cannot say his name obviously because he has a quite high position, but he’s the one who is investigating espionage. So obviously we have a lot of things to discuss. And funny enough, I caught myself on that. I am mentally stimulated by man, you know, finally.

So I find him attractive because of his brain, where I probably wouldn’t find him attractive with his physical appearance. But in my case, again, as a former agent trained in this field, it doesn’t matter how the man looks like. To me particularly, I don’t really care what’s his physical appearance and what’s the size of his whatever. Seriously.

So it’s all about, now at this point, I’m all about mental stimulation. Does make sense.

SHAWN RYAN: Makes perfect sense. Makes perfect sense.

The Vladimir Mission: Daily Operations

So let’s go back to Vladimir. So we kind of went through how you targeted him, I believe. And so, and then we talked about your first mission where you seduced a man. It’s a one night stand and you’re out. How are you maintaining? And I have a lot of questions. Have you ever worked multiple targets at the same time?

ALIIA ROZA: Well, if…

SHAWN RYAN: Have you ever had two missions or worked two different assets at the same time? No, it’s always been one at a time.

ALIIA ROZA: I mean, I don’t even understand how, if you’re a double agent, maybe you can do…

SHAWN RYAN: Well, a double agent would be, you know, a Russian working for the Russians and also…

ALIIA ROZA: And at the same time giving the information to CIA, maybe.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, yeah. So basically what I’m saying is if you have two operations going on at the same time, maybe you’re targeting Vladimir, who is a drug dealer, and then you have, I don’t know, Benjamin over here and he’s a sex trafficker. Are you ever working two different… Do you see what I’m saying? Are you ever simultaneously…

ALIIA ROZA: That would be a great plot for the movie. We need to write a book about it, so…

SHAWN RYAN: No.

ALIIA ROZA: No.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

ALIIA ROZA: No.

SHAWN RYAN: So it’s single.

ALIIA ROZA: Actually, that would be really hard to do. I mean, you would have to have a lot of knowledgeable people around you. Your team members. And that would be really hard. In the end with Vladimir mission, when my colleague was killed…

SHAWN RYAN: Hold on, we didn’t… Okay, sorry. I don’t even know any of this.

ALIIA ROZA: Sorry.

SHAWN RYAN: So with Vladimir, how long were you… How long was he a target?

ALIIA ROZA: So for eight…

SHAWN RYAN: Eight months you said?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: And how long?

ALIIA ROZA: Relationship.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

ALIIA ROZA: Like proper loving, dating relationship.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay, so what is daily life like? Are you a hundred percent? I mean, is he… Because there’s no on and off time. If you’re a true operative, you’re with them all the time, right?

ALIIA ROZA: Exactly.

SHAWN RYAN: Is that how it works over there?

ALIIA ROZA: But I pretended that I studied in the university. So when I would go to my lessons, I would meet with one of my team members and pass him the whole information. So the next day, whatever it is, they would send this SWAT team and arrest, you know, criminals distributing heroin.

SHAWN RYAN: So you’re able to pass on intelligence damn near every single day.

ALIIA ROZA: Not every single day. They were not selling big quantity of heroin every single day, but once a week, once in two weeks, there would be some activities going on. So I would hear the information from Vladimir because, yes, I would sleep with him, I would eat with him, I would even cook for him and for his brothers.

That’s the way they call each other, you know, criminals, colleagues. They would call each other brothers. So I would cook for brothers, basically. Listen, you know, who’s saying what, getting into this event. They would go to clubs almost every day. So just hanging out with them, picking up everything, also establishing relationship with their girlfriends.

They all had females, girlfriends or somebody they spend time with. So also hanging out with them, finding out, “Oh, where was Alex yesterday? I didn’t see him in the club.” “Oh, he was at this…” “I don’t know. But I heard he was speaking on the phone about…” “He went there and heard they were doing something and then this happened.” So these kind of things, you know.

SHAWN RYAN: So eight months. So how did he get killed? Oh, and this… So this was a long story.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: This is heroin coming out of Afghanistan. Is there any human trafficking?

The Betrayal

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, but Vladimir in particular was not. I mean, his gang was involved in this business because, of course, you know that drug and human trafficking are very connected. But Vladimir in particular, he was not. So as I said, he wanted to legalize himself. So he was not the one who was giving the decisions about human trafficking.

Yet when I told him, when I sort of confronted him a little bit about that, I’m like, “Have you seen this? Do you know this? Do you know how many girls were kidnapped and all this?” I don’t know, maybe he lied to me or whatever. But as much as I could read him that time, he didn’t know.

So I suppose because it’s a criminal gang, of course, there are a lot of members and every single team of the gang would bring money for Obshak, you know, Obshak. It’s like money for—it’s kind of like donations from each member or wherever. So, for example, you do the criminal activity, you get money, so you give 10% to each, let’s say member. And then you have money allocated for the sort of bank. So it’s bank of the criminal gang. It’s called Obshak.

So every single criminal, whatever team, when they would do some activities, they would bring money to Obshak, to the bank. And sometimes they probably wouldn’t tell where this money came from—from selling drugs, guns, humans. But it’s still the same because again, who is covering them? The whole activity, the government.

SHAWN RYAN: Were you ever in a situation where you thought you were compromised?

Compromised

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, in the end. In the end, where I understood that I was just a bait, that my commander used me just to get rid of Vladimir in any way. It didn’t really matter how he would get rid of him. Like this way and other way. It doesn’t matter. I mean, it didn’t matter to him. But he was the one who actually gave up my name to criminal brothers, to criminal group and Vladimir.

That time he didn’t know. So he found out this from his criminal brother when they called. When he called me, I didn’t pick up the phone like I told you. Today it reminds me a little bit this PTSD.

So the criminal gang were giving this information that I’m the mole from my own commander, from that commander who wanted to exchange Vladimir to his protege. As always, the driver, this sort of security driver guy of Vladimir, would wait for me downstairs to pick me up for dinner. That was our normal routine. So we’d go home, change, do my homework from the university, and then come downstairs for a dinner to have dinner with Vladimir, then go and sleep with him in his house.

As always, I come downstairs, but instead of only one driver, the car full of guys who called me sister and they put the bag into my head. They beat me in the car. Then we come to the forest. Before that, when I told you, they took my bag with the Motorola. So I couldn’t receive any call. I mean, I couldn’t pick up the phone when Vladimir was calling and everything.

So the time they brought me to the forest, this commander’s protege was the one who orchestrated the whole thing. Showing to criminals, “Look, she is the mole. Vladimir sucks because he fell in love into the mole. He cannot be the leader because he’s stupid, because he was trapped by this bitch. And I will show you how we should do revenge on the moles, on the threats.”

They would call these agents who would be undercover “rats.” Here in English they call it mole, but in Russia they call it rats. So “she’s a rat, and I will show you in front of you guys how we should do a revenge.”

So first of all, he raped me in front of everybody on this, on the land, on the soil. And then that was not the worst. So they, when they were beating me up—

SHAWN RYAN: How many of them?

ALIIA ROZA: About 10 people, because it was like two cars. I was in one car. There was another car. They beat the f* out of me that I had to restore my bone over here. I still have a scar. That’s why I’m kind of covering it and all that.

Vladimir, that time was expecting me for a dinner, as always. They didn’t tell him yet, so he was calling me. And then I didn’t pick up the phone. So he started to call to the driver. Then this guy who just raped me told him that, “Oh, she is a rat, she’s a mole. So we are, you know, we are killing her right now. Literally we are in our spot, which is a forest, who knows where.”

Then what they do, they basically dig in the hole, put you in the hole, and finito. And then nobody will ever find you.

Vladimir’s Final Act

ALIIA ROZA: So Vladimir gave him order to bring me to him because—and they didn’t want to, but Vladimir said, “I will finish her. Let me as a leader. Let me kill her, because this is my responsibility. I need to do it.”

Eventually they were like, “Okay, so he wants to finish her. All right, let’s do it.”

So the time they brought me to Vladimir to his house, I was all bleeding. I was all f*ed up. So, so difficult to remember this thing. I’m so sorry.

SHAWN RYAN: Are you okay?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes. It’s just getting back there. It’s really hard, like every single—so I try not to sort of—I apologize.

SHAWN RYAN: It’s okay.

ALIIA ROZA: So anyway, Vladimir listened to my whole story. I think he—maybe I want to kind of romanticize him or whatever, but I think that time I think that he understood where I’m coming from, that everything I was doing, I wasn’t doing this willingly or because I wanted to, because I had to.

So I told him the whole story with the Colonel and how I entered the military academy and everything, and how I ended up there. So he gave me some also information he knew about his friend, the army friend. And then, and it’s sort of like we had all these puzzles. We put it together, like all these little details. We put it into one big picture where we both, that time I didn’t know, but we both understood that my commander just wanted to get rid of Vladimir in order to put his protege, Vladimir’s friend, to just get more money.

So Vladimir created this plan which I followed. So basically that night, he didn’t kill me. Obviously he knew, I think that he would be killed. But I think he—and I told him, “You’re risking your life if you’re staying here, why don’t you go with me?”

Because he gave me telephone numbers with all the foreign friends in Turkey and Greece. So that’s actually how these contacts, these people, his former friends helped me to move and actually relocate myself there.

I asked him, “Why don’t you go with me?” I don’t know, was it love from my side? I don’t know. But I asked him, “Why don’t you want to go with me?”

He said that he cannot leave everything. He created all these people who relied on him, all these people he had been trained and raised. You know, he would take all these underprivileged, underage kids, build gyms, workout places where these homeless kids could come and have food and roof under the hat.

Because as I said after this revolution after 1991, there were so many kids, homeless kids, and they didn’t have family because parents either would become druggists or alcoholic or die or whatever would happen. All these kids were on the street.

So these kids were sort of adopted by Vladimir and he created all these gyms, facilities for them where they can actually live. And after some time, maybe it was his purpose also to raise an army for himself for the future activities of his. Because after when they would grow up to like 18, sort of 16, they would participate into his gang, who knows? But at least he didn’t let them die. I don’t know.

So he said, “I cannot leave them like this. I have to do something. I have to find another leader in order to take care about this business, take care about them.” And of course, I think he wanted to revenge with this corrupted commander of mine.

So that night he placed me into the car with the driver whom he knew, but he wasn’t the criminal, he was his friend from the childhood, from the school or whatever. He drove me to another city, to a safe house.

And then literally after two months, Vladimir was killed by his own. I mean they don’t say who and how. And all this just shot. It’s actually an article in Internet so people can look online and search and see it. So he was shot and that’s the end of the story. I mean his story.

SHAWN RYAN: Were you sad?

Loss of Faith

ALIIA ROZA: You know what? I lost that time when I—so that night when I realized that my commander set me up because of whatever money, because of the money and power, because of the revenge, because of many things, because I also said to him no when he wanted me. You know, it was like male ego, revenge, money, corruption and all this together.

When I realized that I lost, you know, hope and belief in any kind of romanticized feeling of the patriotism that I sacrifice myself for the country, for people to save them. And then my job, myself being used for someone’s purposes for just gaining money or wherever. And I’m just a little tool which is not that important. And you just can throw people like that because, as I said, one of my colleagues was killed during the operation and nobody would care.

I think I lost any belief or hope. I don’t know, I just lost it.

SHAWN RYAN: Belief or hope in men, belief or hope in human?

ALIIA ROZA: I didn’t lose the belief in human beings, of course. There’s so many amazing people I met during these years. As I said, I don’t have any negativity towards men, of course not.

But I was raised with very patriotic feelings. Your grandfather is a hero, your father has all these medals. Your father has such a name, you know, it’s such an amazing feeling when you go and sometimes difficult to dangerous missions. But you feel like your job is so important even though it’s hidden for public.

But your job is so important because this allows civilians, normal people, sleep peacefully in the warm beds at night while you are during this night in the freezing cold air doing something or doing your job. And even though it’s really hard and you haven’t eaten, you haven’t slept, you’re exhausted physically. But the only one hope which actually keeps you focused and keeps you positive is because you know that you believe in the mission.

You believe in the mission, you believe that you’re saving someone’s life. It’s the only one big belief. And this was betrayed by my own commanders, by my own government. How could I live with that? It’s life, I guess.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, under completely different circumstances, there’s a lot of veterans and former intelligence personnel that feel the exact same way about this country.

ALIIA ROZA: I can understand.

SHAWN RYAN: You did feel an emotional attachment to Vladimir, didn’t you?

Processing Trauma and Moving Forward

ALIIA ROZA: I felt that, you know, one of my dreams actually is very connected to his, and I think he inspired me to do that. I see exactly myself in five years where I will. I want to see myself where I’m, you know, I work for that where, like, I see myself in 10 years and 20 years, and I see myself when I will be like before. I will be that where I want to see myself.

And I want to see myself ideally in the island with a big, big house where orphanage orphan kids from all around the world would live there and be raised there as a family, disregarding to the fact what nationality they are, what race they are, what background they are, educate them and raise them as a sisterhood and brotherhood and just give them this chance and possibility of having the roof and family.

And I think this dream was inspired by Vladimir because that’s exactly what he was doing. Maybe I had attachment with him. I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe that’s why I cannot, you know, have another attachment to anybody else. Maybe.

But look from another hand. It’s such a beautiful sacrifice, a sacrification right of man. He sacrificed his life for a female he loved. Beautiful, very noble, even though he was a criminal, but still it’s a beautiful, you know, action for a woman, for love. I appreciate that and I really respect.

And I think that one of the reasons why I share this story is because to bring this awareness also that this man exists, you know, that men can do such noble things for women if they really care about women and they love them, you know, so it’s something really beautiful can happen. If you really love someone, how often.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you think about him?

ALIIA ROZA: About him? Only when somebody asks me. I don’t really think about him in a normal routine. I’m constantly so busy and my brain is always occupied with so many projects and things. So I. One of the technique also not to go to the park past, because it can ruin you completely.

And I. So I learn also there is another technique. So I learned how to block your past so you don’t. You know, the worst thing when you compare “what if.” What if he wouldn’t be that and we would meet each other in Greece and happily live and have three kids and blah blah, blah. What actually brings you nothing. You just basically deprivatizing yourself. And it’s a virtual world which doesn’t exist. Right.

You need to focus on the present moment. And I always do this technique. Maybe you heard that when I go to this negative thoughts, what if or my past or like, you know, I got a little bit emotional because maybe it’s a really like a few times in my life when I went back to that moment when I was raped and beaten up almost to death.

I don’t allow myself to remember that because if I would, I would never get over that dark emotions. And then this can lead me to a really bad things. Like for example, I don’t drink alcohol. I choose not to because in the past if I would drink my brain slowly but my, my, my shield, my guard would, you know, drop and I would remember that memories and that experience and I would go into darkness as I don’t consume any drugs because it can also bring me the same problem, you know.

So I self regulate myself and I self control myself because I choose healthy lifestyle. I choose to achieve my goals rather than memorizing and remembering that past. That past made me who I am today. And I choose to be strong. Right. And move on rather than to live in the past.

And I strongly advise people not to believe in the past and remembering the past, but move on because the life is beautiful. There’s so many amazing things in the world. You can do so so many great things for others, for human progress, for our planet, for our home. It’s amazing.

SHAWN RYAN: You know, the thing is, is that it does keep coming up for you.

ALIIA ROZA: It does keep coming back.

SHAWN RYAN: It keeps coming back. It keeps coming back when you drink. It keeps coming back.

ALIIA ROZA: So that’s why I don’t drink.

SHAWN RYAN: So it’s coming back right now. So what I want to ask you is, would you rather, would you rather process it and come to an understanding and move past it or keep blocking it?

The Question of Processing Trauma

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, great question. Thank you so much. I feel like I’m with my therapist now. So I work with therapists for 17 years. Right. As I said, I don’t know. I don’t know. Because if I. Okay, I will be honest. I don’t think I’m powerful enough to process that. Really. I think it will, you know, it will really destroy me. You know what I’m saying?

I’d rather keep it over there for now because at the moment, I still do not feel stable, you know, due to certain circumstances in my life, I still don’t feel like, okay, I am safe. I’m like, I have my security. I don’t feel it yet. I am working on that right now. I want to achieve it once I will do it. Maybe it would be enough power, enough energy to go back and process that.

But right now I’m in a kind of like, vulnerable position right now. Still being here in US for like five years. I’m still in a very vulnerable situation. I don’t want to go there so dark and work on it. I have not, you know, I don’t have power enough to do this.

SHAWN RYAN: Have you ever heard of psychedelic therapy?

ALIIA ROZA: I’ve heard. And again, I am scared to do this. Like, you know, especially in Los Angeles, they’re all about like ayahuasca, like this, like ketamine therapy. Right. I am scared. I’m scared to do that. I’m scared that I will not come back. You know, mentally.

SHAWN RYAN: I’ve done it.

ALIIA ROZA: Did it help? I know, Shawn. Like, I’m scared.

SHAWN RYAN: See, the thing with it is I talk a lot about that on this show. And you know, most, the majority of the people that I talk about it with are former special ops guys that have done just horrific stuff. And you know, the general consensus is that it’s very healing.

And you know that for me too, I mean that when I did, I came off booze up to be almost four years since I’ve had a drink this February.

ALIIA ROZA: Congratulations.

SHAWN RYAN: Thank you.

ALIIA ROZA: Big achievement. I know that it’s hard, but actually.

SHAWN RYAN: It was easy for me. I did psychedelics and really it was done.

ALIIA ROZA: No, it’s hard for me. Sometimes I just want to.

SHAWN RYAN: But what I’m saying is it’ll throw you back in those situations. But you’re able to. You’re able to observe it from a different perspective where you’re not necessarily emotionally attached and you process it.

ALIIA ROZA: Do you think that I block this memories?

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah.

ALIIA ROZA: So do you think, like, if I would go back and process it would actually give me sort of like reveal? Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: Only maybe I think you would be able to think about it and move past it from an unemotional. Like, this happened to me. It doesn’t define who I am and it’s okay.

ALIIA ROZA: Well, I almost came to the state that it’s okay. Like, I’m grateful to my experience. If not this, I wouldn’t be sitting here. Right. So I’m. I’m grateful and I’m blessed.

But maybe with the right specialist as I said like I have a trust issue, obviously. So even with a therapist, I’m very careful about what I’m saying or whatever because of you never know. So obviously, like when you are in such a vulnerable state, I under psychedelics, you need to really have people who you trust 100%.

Unfortunately, I cannot say that right now in my life I have these people. Maybe because it’s my problem. Okay. I trust my son hundred percent. I do trust some of my friends. So people I work with. But to do psychedelic with them, therapy? No. Does make sense.

SHAWN RYAN: Makes perfect sense.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay.

SHAWN RYAN: I’m just, I’m just planting a seed and maybe I’ll look into it. And if you do and you need some contacts, let me know.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay?

A Message for Vladimir

SHAWN RYAN: But you know, so you know, going back to Vladimir, I mean, I think it’s very obvious that you had some sort of. Of connection feelings for him. I’m just curious, if you did have the opportunity to talk to him again, what would you tell him?

ALIIA ROZA: If I would, if I would speak with him, I would tell him, thank you. Of course. Thank you for giving me a chance to live this life and being here right now in front of you. Just big, big thank you from the bottom of my heart. That’s it.

I mean, I would of course apologize, but I did apologize that night. I think he understood that sometimes we are in these life circumstances that people. You don’t need to even say that you apologize because people know that you are. It’s different. But being grateful 100%.

SHAWN RYAN: Let’s take a break.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay.

Perceptions and Misconceptions

ALIIA ROZA: You know, some people say that, oh, so her like, you know, basically the story about her being a spy, it’s a cover to cover her real identity. She’s still spy because she goes to all this, like here she goes there, she has this life. So she’s definitely a spy. I’m like, oh my God, these people.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, everybody thinks I’m a spy too.

ALIIA ROZA: Really? They do?

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah. They all, they don’t all think that, but a lot of people think, okay.

The Media Sensation and Public Perception

ALIIA ROZA: So this is kind of normal when you speak about this kind of thing. People think you are a spy. In America it’s kind of normal because, I will explain, I don’t know, you can totally record that.

What I was surprised when I moved to America. You see, I lived in Europe for 15 years, right? When I told some people about my past, just like my very close people. For example, I was dating a British lord who was very close to the royal family. I told him about, you know, my past. We still have a really good friendship and all that. He told me, “Sweetheart, please do not share this to anyone in this country. Just don’t.” I’m like, okay, so I didn’t.

I come here and it was sort of like a necessary thing to do. But when I shared that, what I didn’t expect was that the press would go viral. Viral as it became like viral in different other countries including even India or like Asia, Greece and all like Slovakia, Slovenia, Australia. I mean, they all were writing about it. It’s ongoing press like the New York Post, it was a recent one, but before that it was much bigger mainstream.

My team did an estimation. It was over 500 million viewers on just like some articles, which is crazy, but everything came from America. American press presented me. I kind of told them what I did. But in my perspective this is operative work, what I was doing. I would never call it spy work. Yet we did spy on our targets, you know, when we had to gather information, you know, we need to do research, blah, blah.

But yes, the press calls like, “Oh, she is a sex spy” and all this. And it went just viral and we’re like, wow. I was even like, oh my God, this is crazy. I think especially in America because of the Cold War situation and because I’m coming from USSR, it just became so big and so viral just because of, you know, people ask these questions like, “Okay, so if you spy, it must be like in the movie Red Sparrow. You must seduce the American ministers, politicians, ambassadors,” you know, like, this is the belief. Oh my God. The imagination is crazy. Especially in America.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh yeah, Americans are notorious for over sensationalizing news stories and over embellishing pretty much everything.

ALIIA ROZA: But conspiracy theories, with some of them, I cannot disagree. I agree, but the whole spy thing, I mean, yes, of course it does exist, but only in this country. It’s just so much interest.

SHAWN RYAN: Everybody thinks I’m still a spy. Actually I was never a spy. I was a… But anyways, have you ever spied on someone, like on your target, to get some information?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, okay, I guess I was a spy. See that? If you were doing that even for one target, they call you spy. Yet in Russia they would never call each other, “Hey, spy, come here.” You have to call. We don’t.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, it doesn’t happen here.

ALIIA ROZA: Right. They don’t do it in the military. They call you according to your rank or according to your job status, like for example, operative, blah, blah, blah. Your mission is so and so. Or they would say agent so and so. Right.

SHAWN RYAN: What do they accuse you of being a spy for? What’s your current mission? Wait, are you talking about press? Are we talking about people or what are we talking?

ALIIA ROZA: I don’t know, I just noticed that.

SHAWN RYAN: I see it in the comments.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. In America, people still think that I am a spy. That I came to this country in order to spy for Russians. I’m like, people, please try to hear me out, please. I’m sitting here in front of Shawn Ryan and actually giving my whole story away. Telling the whole thing about myself. If I would be a spy, an active spy, would I want to do that? I mean, what for? It’s so weird.

SHAWN RYAN: They’re going to say that. That’s the cover.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, exactly. That’s what they say. This is the cover.

SHAWN RYAN: She was told to say that. They’re probably spying together. Now there’ll be a whole narrative out there crafted that we’re a team. I don’t know if we’re working for Russia or the U.S. I don’t know. But they’re going to come.

ALIIA ROZA: So a Russian spy and American spy got together at the podcast and do a podcast. Oh, my God, it’s hilarious. But yes.

SHAWN RYAN: And then there’ll be the other people who, like, “See, they have to tell you what they’re going to do before they do it. This is what this is.”

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: And then, welcome to the Internet. But anyways, yeah, we talk about this all the time. All the time.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, so.

SHAWN RYAN: But I am curious. I have, yes, I have a question.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay.

Silicon Valley and Corporate Espionage

SHAWN RYAN: Have you ever worked in Silicon Valley?

ALIIA ROZA: Oh, my God, yes.

SHAWN RYAN: No.

ALIIA ROZA: Sorry. Yes, I did. Okay, so then got. This is short and then the garment. She just.

SHAWN RYAN: Here it is.

ALIIA ROZA: She just. Yeah, she just said yes. Okay. So I was actually invited to Silicon Valley, San Diego based company, a very big company, to actually give a public speaking in front of CEOs and executives to talk about spy techniques, how to prevent manipulation, how to spot lies, how to read people, and how to increase sales using spy techniques.

SHAWN RYAN: Nice.

ALIIA ROZA: So, yes, actually I was invited by ABC and Hulu. They want to do the same. They want to kind of film me giving a lecture about how to prevent manipulation for executives in Silicon Valley using these spy techniques from a female spy. Just funny.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s a real problem over there.

ALIIA ROZA: Why? Oh, you mean because of the…

SHAWN RYAN: That is a big problem. Especially with the AI race going on with China right now. That is a big f*ing problem.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: So what do you tell them? How do they… What do you tell them? What are they looking out for? How do you avoid espionage in Silicon Valley?

ALIIA ROZA: As you said, we just discussed that. Number one, be very cautious. Be aware of this sort of potential fake female accounts when they love bomb you. Love bombing how? How did they find you? Why do they text you? Okay, we know what they want. “Oh, I just want to meet you. I think you’re cute.” How can you possibly see in this little picture how the person looks like? Right. Mostly accounts are private. Especially in LinkedIn, there are not so many pictures. These Silicon Valley tech executives, they definitely don’t have Instagrams, probably not even Facebooks.

SHAWN RYAN: Here’s a good rule to live by. This is just a good rule for everybody to live by. If you’ve never had a 10 come up to you and want to f* you and all of a sudden they’re coming around, it’s probably because they want your money or your tech.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: You didn’t turn into a 10 overnight. So.

ALIIA ROZA: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: Especially when you just be honest with yourself.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, but it’s really hard for people, especially for men, to be honest. Really. I spoke with one person who is in Silicon Valley and CEO of a very big company. Cannot say his name and the company name because it’s quite big. He knows who I am. We spoke, we know each other through friends.

And he goes, “You know what? I’m sitting in a restaurant for the lunch break, and this beautiful, gorgeous, Slovakian looking hot girl comes and she’s pampering me with compliments and blah, blah, blah and all this. And she wanted me to go with her to have sex straight away.” But he told me, “I didn’t know. I was wisely, I was wise enough. I understood that she probably was a spy. I’m so good, I didn’t go with her, even though it was so hard to resist. Do you think she was a spy?” I’m like, oh my God, dude.

And then another comment, also from Silicon Valley guys, also quite big, you know, corporations, big status executives and all that. They said, “So what? At least I will be f*ed by gorgeous girl. Why not?”

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

ALIIA ROZA: I’m telling you that it’s crazy, but that’s, you know, comments I receive.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: How many? I’m just, I am curious. I mean, how many… Is this common knowledge in Silicon Valley? Does everybody know?

ALIIA ROZA: I think now it is because of the Times article, but before, I don’t think so. You know how many actually Slovakian women go there to target potential future husbands? Probably unbelievable. I know the story.

SHAWN RYAN: Hundreds of thousands.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, I know a lot of stories. Actually, I don’t even… Do you remember 10, 20 years ago, it was very popular, these websites, dating websites, they would call it Russian wife or bring Russian wife, Russian date or whatever.

SHAWN RYAN: Mail order brides, right?

The Mail Order Bride Pipeline

ALIIA ROZA: So this American Silicon Valley based man would go online to find Russian or whatever, Slovakian looking woman, speak with them online before seeing them, make for them bride visa. They could come from Russia or Ukraine or whatever country to America to meet with them for, I think the visa was for six months and they decide if they want to marry them.

This woman, then she would stay under the marriage visa, you know, green card, marriage residency, or she would go back home. But most likely, of course, this woman would do everything, everything to show the best behavior obviously in every possible way. So this man would end up marrying them.

And surprisingly I know a lot of females having these situations. They would particularly target American men from California, from Silicon Valley in order to move to America, get married, have kids with them, and then who knows, maybe still deliver some information to the government.

And I spoke with one of them and you know what she said? We spoke about this and there was some sort of conflicts between different women. One woman would say, “How can you actually create a family and raise kids with your target?” Another one would say, “Yes, but if you do that for the government, why would you do it for government?” Right?

But another one said, “Imagine the situation. What if your parents in Ukraine or Russia or Belarus or wherever, what if they are threatened or they would be put on risk if you would reject this task from the government?”

SHAWN RYAN: Man, how many spies do you think are over there?

ALIIA ROZA: A lot.

SHAWN RYAN: How many countries?

ALIIA ROZA: How many countries? From different. Okay, so I spoke with one person I mentioned before, mostly China, because Chinese are particularly targeting the IP, intellectual property from the American companies. Corporate companies.

Russians, not so much. Mossad, British, they said that’s not in a good shape right now. Sorry, but it is what it is. I mean, I spoke with the pro. That’s a very classified information, but it’s actually truth.

You see the point is that the Chinese secret intelligence and Russian, they don’t really have human rights law as high as in America. So for them using humans, it’s quite common and normal. Okay. And besides, they don’t have that much money to use technology, so it’s easier to use humans.

Family Connections

SHAWN RYAN: Are you still in contact with any of your family?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, of course.

SHAWN RYAN: Your father?

ALIIA ROZA: Yes, big time. I mean not every day, of course, but we speak once a week or two weeks just to check on them. We cannot speak anything about the war, political situation, anything like that. We usually speak about the house, how do they feel and, you know, what’s going on in their life. And I just speak about my job and that’s it.

SHAWN RYAN: Have you and your dad ever had a conversation about your previous career?

Family Expectations and Betrayal

ALIIA ROZA: Yes. And you know what my dad said? Even like two years ago? He said, “Maybe you should come back to Russia and, you know, reinstall yourself in the military and continue working.”

So at that point, I understood that I love my dad. I love my family, of course, but he doesn’t get it, you know. He doesn’t understand. He doesn’t see what I see. And it’s impossible to teach him or try to explain to him, because I did try to explain when the war started, but it went to an argument. So my mom said, “Please don’t speak with him about this stuff. Just don’t.”

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

ALIIA ROZA: When I actually moved out from Russia, even though I was still in Russia, he actually stopped talking to me because of what I said to him, the way I presented it. I said, “I quit and I left.”

So my dad didn’t speak with me for over a year because I betrayed his plans and his goals for my future and sort of the family. I kind of let him down, if you understand what I mean, because he was portraying me and believing that I would be having this high rank and maybe he would be proud of me and all that.

I went to a completely different path. I don’t understand if he… I mean, I think he doesn’t understand that and he doesn’t approve that. But at the moment, it is what it is. Of course he would want to have a different future for me, man.

SHAWN RYAN: That is tough. I mean, how would you go back to Russia and work an intelligence unit anyways? I mean, you’ve abandoned…

ALIIA ROZA: I could if I wouldn’t go public, like I’m doing right now.

SHAWN RYAN: I definitely could if you didn’t go public. But you are public.

ALIIA ROZA: Well, that’s why I decided to go public, because I’m like, I’m so done. I don’t want anyone to contact me. I don’t want anyone to be sent. I don’t want to be attached.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, this conversation with your dad was before you went public. Okay.

Life in Russia and Social Media Blackout

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, yeah. So now, now when I’m public and all this, the good thing is they don’t have social media because it’s banned in Russia. Spotify is banned, WhatsApp is banned. Every single platform is banned in Russia. Sometimes they don’t have Internet, some days they don’t. They literally don’t have Internet. So they cannot really go and see.

The only one platform they can check is my Instagram. But my Instagram is all about fashion. So when I moved to London at 30, I finally was like, “Okay, so finally I can do something for myself.” And my dream was to work in fashion.

So I was enrolled into top fashion university in London. I got my master degree and I started to work in fashion. And I was super happy because I was working for a really big publishing house, like Condé Nast in the UK for Vogue and Tatler and Vanity Fair magazine. So for me it was very big and prestigious.

So I created my fashion blog on Instagram. Everything is about fashion. So I go to fashion weeks, Milan, Paris, I promote fashion brands, I get paid. So Instagram is my revenue, but as a fashion blogger.

So I became an influencer in fashion much earlier than I revealed my identity being a secret agent. And sometimes people, they don’t understand because they don’t scroll down the Instagram to my past. And they say, “Oh, she revealed her story about being a spy because she just wanted to become an influencer.”

I’m like, where is the logic here? Why don’t you just scroll down to my Instagram? Why don’t you see that I got 1 million followers much earlier than I revealed my identity being a spy?

And I was living in Europe most of the time. So my dad and my family, they don’t really… And besides, they don’t speak English, so they don’t really understand this kind of thing. They just see my Instagram. “Oh, she’s wearing this nice dress. She’s on the red carpet here. She’s on the red carpet in Cannes and Venice,” wherever. So, okay, that’s it.

So what’s going on with the Spotify and YouTube, they don’t have access. Thank God.

Fashion Career Success

SHAWN RYAN: Well, your fashion career has gone… How long have you been in fashion?

ALIIA ROZA: 10 years.

SHAWN RYAN: 10 years?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. I’m 40 now, so I’ve been there 10 years. I started from 30.

SHAWN RYAN: You’re in everything. I mean, I’ll probably misspeak here, but I want to… What I went through, I mean, it’s like Vogue, Glamour, Vanity Fair, everything.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you.

SHAWN RYAN: Everything.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you. Well, I love fashion. I was born in Soviet Union. There was no fashion at all. So I was stitching and tailoring clothes for dolls and then for myself and then for my friends.

So fashion, I always loved fashion. I wanted to kind of have my own style and all that. So if you really implement yourself and all that, of course you can achieve everything you want as long as you work hard on that and you’re moving on.

So that’s what I’m doing. And I’m very happy that my son just recently signed a deal with the top four model agencies in the world.

SHAWN RYAN: Congratulations.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you. He has really good physical parameters. The only one thing I need to manage him because, you know, how fashion industries… it’s entertainment and all that. So he has to be very careful.

So I would be the one who would guide him, introduce him to designers, be there as his manager and just help him to go through. So, yeah, I’m very excited about that.

SHAWN RYAN: Right on. Congratulations. Thanks. Do you use your seduction techniques to get what you want today?

Using Spy Techniques for Good

ALIIA ROZA: Always. Today? No, today. I mean, first of all, you’re a married guy.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, I don’t mean to me, I just mean in anything, high audience. Do you like me?

SHAWN RYAN: Any, any, any. I mean, to advance your fashion career, to get anything that you want. I mean, do you use those techniques?

ALIIA ROZA: In my normal life, yes. And I would say this is my DNA always, but in a good way. You see, you can use spy techniques for good.

Like, for example, you want to motivate or inspire your colleagues. That’s why… Congratulations. You’re top one podcast on YouTube and Spotify. Why? Because you inspire your team. You bring them together, you motivate them. Because alone we can’t do all this job. We need the right, good team next to us doing this mission together.

Like in the military, you cannot do the mission by yourself. You have to have the right team with you, right? So how to motivate people, how to inspire them, giving right compliments, programming them as well through anchors, but in the right way.

Or for example, a wife can inspire and motivate and program her husband in order to kind of push him a little bit, to be more successful, to have a desire to make more money, to do something, to kind of create more things. So spy techniques can be used for good.

Also, spy techniques can be used for spotting the lie. What if you receive all these offers from potential business partnerships, but they’re actually trying to lie to you, taking advantage from you. What if you can actually… it’s not just gut feeling, but it’s also understanding the body language, the eye contact, analyzing their words, right. Observe the behavior, the character. What they say, how they say. It’s a lot of little details.

But what if you can understand that and learn how to do all this in order to protect yourself from giving away something in the business which is not beneficial for you.

So same in the relationship, right? Like we just discussed. What if a man would understand that this woman is a potential gold digger, this woman is a potential spy trying to get something out of you. Or they look into your wallet rather than you and how to maybe… not maybe, but how to place the right boundaries.

Because we all treat people according to the way how they present themselves. If you present yourself as a weak man, as dependent and emotional and kind of weak, most likely there would be women who would come and try to abuse you in order to get something out of you, right?

So you need to place your boundaries first. You need to have and raise your self-esteem, your self-confidence. And when you are confident, most likely nobody will be able to manipulate you or use you or take something from you.

We’re talking about healthy partnership. But healthy partnership starts from yourself, right? So spy techniques can be used for good. And that’s what I teach to people and that’s what I’m writing in the book. And I want to share this to people where spy techniques can be used for the dark psychology, for the manipulation as well. But that’s my responsibility not to share these techniques to public, to audience so they won’t use it on each other.

How to Spot a Liar

SHAWN RYAN: How do you tell if somebody’s lying?

ALIIA ROZA: Many things. Now you know what? Now I went to the thing, the kind of maybe special skill. I noticed it wasn’t like this before. Before I would analyze according to the theory. Now I can actually without even body language or the whole presentation, I can smell the lie, which is so funny. But I think it’s over time practice and wisdom.

So number one for just people to understand. Number one, how to spot the lie. When somebody tries to push whatever they want and they try to push you in a way that “hurry up, hurry up.” Like “we need to do it now.” Like “today is the day,” like “now is the time, we need to do it now. Let’s do now. Come on, come on.”

When somebody is rushing you like this and another person, for example, would distract you with talks or other activities or whatever, this is a big red flag. So you need to kind of… “Guys, give me some time. Let me think.” This is really important to remember. So never make any decisions when you are in this rush situation.

Second, the lie. Yeah, of course, body language. But we all know that, right? So people say… Well, I wouldn’t say that this actually works. When people look up left or up right, usually left, they’re saying… It doesn’t work like that because…

SHAWN RYAN: That could be a confidence problem.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. Sometimes we remember something, sometimes we think about something. Or sometimes I can go like this and thinking, looking at your beautiful picture over there, for example. There could be so many thoughts. I wouldn’t stress particular on the eye position, but body language, yes.

So when somebody’s hiding something, they usually hide themselves, right. Usually women, they sit either like this… it’s a very closed position or they put the bag on the knees. Also a closing position or again when you’re covering your mouth or covering your eyes or you kind of… So you try whatever you say, but you distract.

SHAWN RYAN: You’re looking for something to do.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. At the same time you’re kind of hiding something. You feel it, right. So check the whole posture. How is it?

Some very skilled liars, they would take care, they would control the body language of course. So you wouldn’t even notice on the body language. But then it’s so important to understand what they’re asking from you.

Obviously if a random person comes to you with an offer and pushing you or placing you in the situation you cannot say no, that’s definitely a manipulation and you should just withdraw yourself and just get out from this and take time to think.

And also important thing, check the person. Of course. Check the social media. Check people, ask people if they know this person, if he’s legit, if he’s not legit, what has he done? Who knows him? What kind of relationship he has. It could be about women and men. Doesn’t matter. You need to check.

Now we live in the Internet world where you can check everything about anyone. There is a great website. I checked one person recently. You just pay a couple bucks and it gives you the whole thing, especially in America, which is fascinating. You get the address, partners, marriages and all that. Why not? So check people before you are getting yourself into some situations where you will…

SHAWN RYAN: Regret after, would you say, be aware of people that don’t give you the opportunity to talk. Fast talkers. Overabundance of talking is an avoidance of questions happening.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. Destruction. They’re destructive with their talk. So you’re kind of like, you lost. So you cannot even hear your thought process because you’re distracted with the conversation.

SHAWN RYAN: This was a fascinating conversation.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you.

SHAWN RYAN: What should we cover? Or is this the end?

ALIIA ROZA: I don’t know. You tell me. I’m like, we went from crying to love.

SHAWN RYAN: I think we covered it. Okay, I’d love to get you back. You going to come back?

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah, after I will do psychedelic therapy. And then after, okay, now I am connected with my Zen. I’m ready. I’m ready to go through that again and tell you the whole thing.

SHAWN RYAN: I hope you look into it. I mean, they could do a lot of good for you.

ALIIA ROZA: Maybe next year. So this year almost gone. Next year when the book will be out, hopefully I’ll get like, I will be sorted out with my citizenship and everything. And then we’ll see.

I mean, maybe, yes, maybe I’ll have the power enough. But again, it’s all about the time also, the right time. You see, when you travel, when you’re committed to so many projects, you just simply don’t have time to yourself. And that’s also important. I need to have time for myself and I’m so happy this Christmas break is coming because everybody will be busy with family.

So I can finally sleep and I can finally rest. Finally I can sleep in my bed for at least eight hours.

SHAWN RYAN: Nice.

ALIIA ROZA: Yeah. This is my dream.

Final Recommendations

SHAWN RYAN: Last question. If you could recommend three guests for this podcast, who would they be?

ALIIA ROZA: Three guests? You know what? So I listen a lot of your episodes and I scroll down the whole YouTube. It’s amazing. Very interesting topics and all that. I actually really fascinated. I won’t go to this, you know, conversations, but it doesn’t matter. But some of the guests, they were just amazing. Like, wow. And very inspiring.

But I noticed that there are not so many female guests, you know. So I think if you would bring more female guests, especially therapists. So for example, you talk about mental healing and PTSD, maybe great. It would be great to bring somebody like expert or therapist on that, but female from female perspective.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

ALIIA ROZA: I would also invite a relationship female coach. So for example, or I’m happy to talk about what women want from men on the first date or in terms of long relationship. Because it’s such a, men obviously have completely different psychology from women. Women also have different psychology from men.

But women are more kind of educated in this way because women want to. Women have a precise time limit. Men, they don’t. So it’s very important for female to have everything during a specific time zone. Like, you know, marrying kids, raising kids, you know, also making career and all that. So it’s very limited time.

What Women Want From Men

SHAWN RYAN: What do women want from men? I’ll ask you.

ALIIA ROZA: Okay, good question. Women want from men only one thing. Women want stability. That’s it. Stability. That’s it, guys. Wherever you would hear, “Oh, she wants this size or she wants that size of a wallet.” Rubbish. They want stability. I can tell you this.

And as a woman and I work with women, even if a guy doesn’t make that much revenue yet, but he is stable. Meaning that he is self-regulated, he’s self-disciplined. He’s committed to his work, he’s committed to his project, he’s committed to their relationship. So he doesn’t lie. He doesn’t cheat on. Not just physical cheating, but cheating, like lying. “Oh, maybe this is water, maybe this is wine, maybe this is black, maybe this is white.” Like, you know, this kind of, because this is not stability.

When women spot that man is lying somewhere, the trust is gone. And then women think, “How can I actually have kids with this man if he lies to me in these small things?” And then after having kids, what if he will leave me? What if he’ll just let me down in something or whatever, right?

So women are seeking for stability. Even though, as I said, the guy is not maybe successful yet, but he’s very committed to everything he does. And he says, “Tomorrow I will do this.” And he does it. Like, “I go to gym every day for one hour.” And he does it, whatever, but he is committed to everything he’s doing.

Then woman has this understanding that, “Okay, I can trust him, he’s stable because during the time I can see that he didn’t mess up in anything. So I can trust this guy. So I am okay to go ahead with him and build life together.” So stability.

But of course they are other details. Like, of course, women are looking for attention, physical attention, compliments, moral attention, and support, of course. Otherwise, you know, I strongly believe, and that’s what I say to my students. As I said, women, they have limit with time. And for a woman, it’s very important to choose the target wisely. Sorry, I just. Okay, let’s call a potential partner, the right partner, a target.

So if a woman goes into relationship with a cute guy and she just likes him, but he’s unstable and he messes up in different things, but she forgives him and she goes ahead, it may be a lot of time, like years sometimes, and she’s still waiting for something. Most likely this guy will never offer you and propose you. And most likely this guy would never be committed to you because he doesn’t even know what does he want.

So why would you waste your precious time on this person? Because we cannot change people unless they want to change themselves. So if you think that you will change man, this is not going to happen. So instead, why don’t you choose the right man who is also willing to work with you on building something together.

But the thing is, it’s very difficult. Of course, it’s hard to find the right target, but it’s possible because in the beginning also, you need to have your boundaries and you need to tell the man, what are you looking for? He needs also to tell you what does he want. Because you may be playing these games, but in fact, he just wants to have easy, simple sex. And you want to build a family with him and have kids. Like you are in different dimensions. Exactly.

So of course it’s not going to work and you’ll just waste your time. And then what would happen? You will have a broken heart, PTSD, you lose time and energy. And how many examples of the stories do we have? Do we know?

SHAWN RYAN: Millions.

ALIIA ROZA: So that’s why women need to know what do they want? And they need to state in the beginning of relationship, what do they want in a nice way? Of course not like, “Okay, I want this, this, this.” But you know, the funny thing is I have one of my students who actually, so that time, she was 38 years old, working in the bank, beautiful girl.

And she was like, “You know what? I want to. I’ve done my career, blah, blah, blah. I have income, good, stable income. I have some savings. So I want to have family. I want to have kids. I want the right man.”

And what she did, she just basically went online, and every single evening, she would meet with new men, but she would state, “Dude, I want to get married. I’m 38 years old. I’m planning,” and a little bit about herself. “I’m so and so and so,” even in dating website like sort of Tinder or wherever.

But she was able to find the right guy for herself. And now they’re happily married with two kids, and it’s been already, what, over six years? So it’s possible. But you need to know, what do you want?

SHAWN RYAN: Good advice.

ALIIA ROZA: Well, I hope it helps.

SHAWN RYAN: Great advice. Well, Aliia, I just want to say thank you for coming. I’d love to get you back here.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you Shawn.

SHAWN RYAN: Fascinating conversation.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you so much. I really appreciate, really appreciate.

SHAWN RYAN: My pleasure. Best of luck.

ALIIA ROZA: Thank you.

SHAWN RYAN: No matter where you’re watching Shawn Ryan Show from, if you get anything out of this, please, like, comment, subscribe, and most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you’re feeling extra generous, please leave us a review on Apple and Spotify podcasts.

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