Read the full transcript of United States Secretary Marco Rubio’s interview on Fox News. (Feb 4, 2025)
Listen to the audio version here:
TRANSCRIPT:
Panama Canal and Chinese Influence
INTERVIEWER: You’ve just come from Panama, and you said that your meetings in Panama went well. After then, President Trump said that we’re going to take the canal back or something very powerful is going to happen. What’s going to happen?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, I hope nothing’s going to happen, and it shouldn’t because, look, the president’s point is we gave the canal in a treaty to Panama. We didn’t give it to China.
You come back twenty years later and you go to the canal, and on the entry points of both sides of the canal is a Chinese-linked company. Back when I was visiting there yesterday, the ship behind me, just over my shoulder, was a Hong Kong shipping vessel. And so their presence, not just in the canal, but in Panama writ large, is very disturbing.
INTERVIEWER: So winning their presence could solve this whole problem?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, we didn’t give the canal to China. I mean, it’s a violation of the treaty. What I told President Cortizo yesterday was that President Trump’s made a preliminary determination that you’re in violation of the treaty because a sovereign other country, a third country, has effective control over the canal area. And absent serious measures, we’re going to have to preserve our rights under the treaty.
Now, you know, obviously, there are a lot of options in that regard, and I think people speculate things, but I don’t think we’ll ever get to that point and shouldn’t get to that point.
So we had a very frank conversation. Since then, they’ve taken some steps. They announced that they’re going to get out of the Belt and Road Initiative. We’d like to see more. We hope to see more in the days to come.
You know, the government doesn’t control the canal. It’s run by an independent agency, the Canal Zone. So they have to go through some legal steps that they have to carry out. But my hope ultimately is that we can get back to a point where that canal is what it was meant to be, which is a place where the United States and Panama are working in partnership. It’s free for, it’s open for everyone and that no foreign power through their companies or any other means has the ability to use it against us in a time of conflict and impede travel through it because it would be devastating.
INTERVIEWER: Easily get resolved without the United States taking direct operational control of the canal?
MARCO RUBIO: Yeah. There’s a lot of options, and I’m not going to preclude any options about what the final outcome looks like. But at a prerequisite baseline, we cannot continue to have the Chinese and through their companies exercising effective control of the canal area. And that needs to happen.
I was pretty clear, and I hope that we’ll see steps, additional steps in the days to come to reaffirm that.
USAID and Foreign Aid
INTERVIEWER: So, you’re now the head of USAID. The head of Dogecoin, Elon Musk, called USAID a criminal organization and added that it is time for it to die. Do you agree with that?
MARCO RUBIO: Let me walk you through the history of this agency because I’ve dealt with it for fourteen years in the United States Senate. It was created as a way of doing humanitarian assistance in the world separate from the State Department at the time, but it said you have to take policy direction from the Secretary of State, the National Security Council, the White House, and all elements of government.
They have basically evolved into an agency that believes that they’re not even a US government agency, that they are a global charity, that they take the taxpayer money, and they spend it as a global charity, irrespective of whether it is in the national interest or not in the national interest. One of the most common complaints you will get if you go to embassies around the world from State Department officials and ambassadors and the like is USAID is not only not cooperative, they undermine the work that we’re doing in that country. They are supporting programs that upset the host government for whom we’re trying to work with on a broader scale and so forth.
So they’re completely unresponsive. They just don’t consider that they work for the US. They just think they’re a global entity and that their master is the globe, not the United States. And that’s not what the statute says, and that’s not sustainable. President put a pause on all foreign aid.
We found a lot of cooperation in the State Department, and we have issued dozens and dozens of waivers. As we go through all the foreign aid programs in the Department of State, the ones that make sense, we issue a waiver. They go back on. We’ve already done it for dozens of programs.
INTERVIEWER: And you’ll be issuing more waivers soon?
MARCO RUBIO: And we’ll be doing so. For example, we did it today for some of the counter-migrant flights that are going out of Panama. It’s in our national interest to help them deport people that are headed towards the United States back to their home countries. And we’ve issued some here today in El Salvador because they do a lot of cooperation with us on stopping drugs and stopping migration and so forth. So we’re going through it at the State Department, the State Department portion of foreign aid. We find cooperation.
State Department people have been great, and we’re issuing waivers, and we’re getting input, and it’s working. We go to USAID, which is a big chunk of foreign aid, $40 billion or so. They’re completely uncooperative. They won’t tell you what the programs are. They refuse to answer questions.
They try to push through payments. Even after the executive order, they were still trying to push money through the system.
INTERVIEWER: Can it be reformed, or does it need to die?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, that was always the goal was to reform it.
But now we have rank insubordination. Now we have basically an active effort where their basic attitude is we don’t work for anyone. We work for ourselves. No agency of government can tell us what to do.
So the president made me the acting administrator. I’ve delegated that power to someone who’s there full time, and we’re going to go through the same process at USAID as we’re going through now at the State Department.
I think there are some—this is not about getting rid of foreign aid. There are things that we do through USAID that we should continue to do that makes sense. And we’ll have to decide, is that better through the State Department, or is that better through something, you know, a reformed USAID? That’s the process we’re working through. There are things that are happening at USAID that we should not be involved in funding and that we have a lot of questions about, but they’re completely uncooperative.
So we had no choice but to take dramatic steps to bring this thing under control.
INTERVIEWER: So it could exist in the future, USAID?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, the aid—I think it’s important to separate USAID from aid programs. Because everybody’s acting like somehow these aid programs are impossible without an agency.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think that we’ll still be the most generous nation on earth at the end of this process?
MARCO RUBIO: I think we’ll be the most generous nation on earth, but we think we’re going to be the most generous nation on earth in a way that makes sense, that’s in our national interest. We are going to fund programs that make America stronger or safer or more prosperous.
We’re going to pay for things that make sense for the United States. The United States government is not a charity. It is not a global charity. There are a lot of global charities, and they should go—if you want to be involved in global charities, go join a global charity, raise private money, and spend it on whatever you want. But this is taxpayer money.
It’s not my money. It’s not their money. It’s our money. It’s taxpayer money. And we have an obligation if we’re going to do foreign aid to do it in a way that makes sense, that doesn’t support our enemies, and that actually is aligned with, makes sense within the context of our foreign policy.
And the people at USAID, at the top levels especially, have been completely uncooperative. They don’t view themselves that way. They’re insubordinate. They refuse to provide access. They refuse to provide information.
Not now. They don’t provide access to Congress. Go to members of the Senate who have tried to get answers from USAID, and they tell them, we’re not going to tell you anything. We don’t work for you. We don’t work for State. We don’t work for the president. We don’t even work for America. We work for ourselves. That’s not going to continue.
INTERVIEWER: Do you get the sense that during this pause, or are you concerned during this aid pause that China could come in and fill the vacuum with their influence operations?
MARCO RUBIO: No. I mean, first of all, they don’t do that now. If they did, they’d be out there competing with us in these places. But my point is this, even if they did that, why would we fund things that are against our national interest or don’t further our national interest? Whether China is there or not.
If China wants to waste their money on something that’s against their national interest, go ahead and do it. We’re not going to do it. It makes no sense for us to be involved in things that undermine what is important to America or that don’t further what is important to America. And irrespective of what China decides to do, this is taxpayer money. We shouldn’t be spending it on programs that have nothing to do with the United States and nothing to do with making America stronger, safer, and more prosperous.
We have a foreign policy, and everything we do, including spending money, has to be aligned with that, has to further our national interests.
Tariffs and International Relations
INTERVIEWER: Moving on to some of the tariffs now. You’re heading up negotiations with Mexico. The president just announced that now. Do these tariffs, especially those against Canada, fundamentally change the relationship that the United States has with our most immediate neighbors?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, it changes our economic relationship. The president’s point is that trade with Canada is very unfair. You know, that he’ll tell you, and he said it repeatedly. You can’t—US banks can’t operate there. There’s all kinds of industries that they protect against and do not allow to enter the country.
So he views this trade imbalance and says it’s unfair and needs to be reset. He also argues they have been less than cooperative on fentanyl and on the inflow of fentanyl. The Canadians will tell you that more fentanyl goes that way than the other way, but increasingly, there was a—in October of last year, they found a big fentanyl lab inside of Canada, and he doesn’t feel like we’re getting enough cooperation. And so that’s why he’s imposed those tariffs.
In the case of Mexico, the president’s point is much of the northern region of Mexico, sadly, and indirect threat to the Mexican government troops to their border, their northern border, and the president’s decided to delay tariffs.
INTERVIEWER: This is a—it’s a good way of doing business in new world order?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, I think the president’s point is America’s been taken advantage of for far too long, and I think that’s true across the board. That’s been true on foreign aid. We have countries and entities, places that we pour a bunch of money into, and then they vote against us at the UN every time. They support all of our enemies.
And you start asking yourself, why do we keep putting money into this? Our embassy says it. And the USAID says, we don’t care. We’re going to keep doing it anyway.
In other cases, when it comes to trade, there are countries around the world where their companies can do whatever they want in America. They can do anything they want in America, but we can’t do it over there. So there’s this process called reciprocity, equal. Whatever you charge us, we get to charge you. Whatever you allow us to do, you’re allowed to do.
Whatever you block, we’re going to block. I think the president’s a big believer in reciprocity and evenness, in fairness. For some reason, I don’t know how this happened, but over the last twenty or thirty years, we felt like it’s okay for countries to take advantage of us, and that’s just not going to continue under President Trump.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Mr. Secretary, thank you for joining us.
MARCO RUBIO: Thank you.
Canada as the 51st State
INTERVIEWER: As part of all of this, the president again said that Canada should be our cherished 51st state. Is he serious, and are you working on that at the State Department?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, we’re not involved in a negotiation to make Canada the 51st state. Now, obviously, I think what we’re focused on right now is what’s most immediate in front of us, and that is that there’s tariffs that’s obviously going to have an impact on our relations with them.
We’re still neighbors. We’ll always be neighbors. Canada will always be our neighbor. Mexico will always be our neighbor. We can’t move. You can’t move to another neighborhood. Right? So we’re going to have to live alongside each other, and I hope we can find agreements. Again, we’re the Department of State. We’re the diplomats.
U.S. Relations with Canada and Mexico
INTERVIEWER: So we’re looking for ways to find things that are amicable. But I do think that neither Canada nor Mexico should make the mistake of thinking that this is bluster or that the president is just talking for purposes of negotiating leverage. He is serious that the US is not going to be taken advantage of. And it’s not just limited to Canada or Mexico. He’s talked about some of the unfairness in the EU. He’s imposed additional tariffs. We already had tariffs on China. These are additional tariffs. Can China expect more, do you think, on top of what he’s already proposed?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, they continue to cheat and steal. Yeah. Absolutely. Look. China’s doing what China’s acting in their national interest. I frankly I don’t like it, but I don’t blame what the Chinese leaders are doing. They’re doing what any leader of a country would do. If you’d let them take advantage of you, they will. So I think he wants to bring fairness back to that relationship. And, obviously, China’s going to be upset that we try to bring fairness because they’ve had a really good deal, an unfair deal for a long time.
The president is going to make that equal. And look. That’s going to create outrage in Washington and in editorial boardrooms, but millions of people, whether they’re watching this broadcast or just living in real world America, say, of course, this all makes sense. All of it makes sense to them.
Venezuela and Deportations
INTERVIEWER: Bringing it back to our region right now, Venezuela is taking back migrants that the Trump administration’s deporting, they’ve released American prisoners. Maduro doesn’t seem like the type of person to be doing things just out of the goodness of his heart to help the United States. Is this administration going to recognize Maduro as the legitimate leader of Venezuela?
MARCO RUBIO: There’s no talks about doing that. No one’s discussed it. We don’t recognize him now. What he’s agreed to is very simple. He’s released Americans that should never have been in his prisons. They were hostages. They’re not prisoners. They’re hostages. He takes them for trade, and he’s going to accept these trained at Agua criminals. We’ll see if he actually does it. I hope they do. We’ve got to get these people out of our country. They came from Venezuela, came through a bunch of other countries, wound up here, committing crimes in the United States.
He pushed those people out of his country. He emptied out his jails and prisons and pushed them into other countries and towards the United States, and he’s going to have to take them back. I think leaders like Maduro, no matter how tough they try to be, they respect Donald Trump. They know this is not a guy who’s going to send you a strongly worded letter. He will take actions.
I’m not going to talk about what those actions are, but he knows and they know we have many options to inflict serious damage and harm on the Maduro regime if they don’t do what international law requires them to do, and that is accept their foreign nationals who are illegally in this country, especially those who are criminals. That’s the priority of the criminals.
El Salvador and Regional Cooperation
INTERVIEWER: And that’s a lot of part of your conversations down here in Central America as well, getting governments to take their nationals back. But will they also take back people from other countries that we can’t deport directly to?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, I think we’ll leave here today with two things. First of all, President Bukele here in El Salvador has always taken back their nationals. We’ve—it’s been a very strong partner in the United States. The Biden administration treated them very poorly. Probably the most popular leader in Central America, maybe all of Latin America in terms of public approval ratings, and because he made this country safe, he really did and very popular. So he’s always been willing to take back his nationals. He’s taken them back. He’ll continue to do so. And I think he’ll agree to take back these MS-13 killers. He’s built his prison system here to house them. And I think he’s willing to take back, these trained Anagua criminals that are not El Salvadorans, but he’s willing to house them in these prisons that he’s built as well because he’s an ally of the United States.
INTERVIEWER: And we’ll see that in other countries as well, do you think?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, every country has a different level of capacity, but he has become sort of an expert in the region at dealing with crime and gangs in the street. Look. El Salvador is a country where five years ago, six years ago, you couldn’t go out at night. You couldn’t be out after half dark.
There were people here—I used to when I last year, two years ago, you would talk to vendors, street vendors. They would tell you that every week, some kid would come by on a bicycle and collect protection money from the gangs. If you didn’t pay them the protection money, they’d cut off your daughter’s ear. They cut off your son’s hand. They kidnapped him. That’s gone. All that extortion is gone. He basically wiped up all these gangs and put them in these prisons, and they’re gone. This is now a safe country.
He’s a leader in that. He’s got—and it’s you see what it’s done in El Salvador. I hope other leaders will follow his example, but he now has the capacity to help house some of these people because he’s a partner and an ally of Donald Trump. Joe Biden treated him very poorly.
Iran and Maximum Pressure Campaign
INTERVIEWER: Very quickly on Iran. Do you expect that the pressure campaign, the maximum pressure campaign is coming back against Iran?
MARCO RUBIO: I think Iran right now is in very serious trouble because the people of Iran hate them. People—the people of Iran hate their own leaders. They hate them. They destroyed their country. They’ve given all this money to Hezbollah. They’ve given all this money to terrorist groups, and they’ve done nothing for their own people. So they’ve got a lot of problems internally. I think they’ve lost—Hezbollah has been weakened. Hamas has been weakened. They’ve lost Syria. They got kicked out of Syria. So they’re very, very vulnerable.
INTERVIEWER: So time to apply more pressure?
MARCO RUBIO: I think we need to apply more pressure to Iran until they stop doing the activities that they’re doing.
INTERVIEWER: What are those activities?
MARCO RUBIO: They’re trying to ultimately get to a nuclear weapon. They keep providing weaponry for all these terrorist groups, the Houthis. This group in Yemen that basically attacked global shipping and raised prices for everybody, all their weapons were given to them by Iran. All their weapons were given to them by Iran. So until the Iranian regime stops promoting international terrorism the way they have through Hezbollah, Hamas, the groups they have had in Syria, the groups they have in Iraq. I think they need to face more pressure, not just from us, but from other countries in the world that are implicated or feel the breath and feel the punishment of what they’ve done.
INTERVIEWER: Cracking down on oil sanctions, tightening those up even more sanctions you think are needed?
MARCO RUBIO: Absolutely. And we’ll see. I mean, the president hasn’t made a pronouncement on that yet. He’s making a decision about what exactly that is. The bottom line is the president’s goal is to get Iran to stop supporting terrorism and stop destabilizing the region and stop trying to be the dominant force in the Middle East. That has to end.
They’re a direct threat to Israel, but they’re really a direct threat to the United States. That threat needs to go away. The president is going to reestablish deterrence. He has many options at his disposal to do that, and those will be forthcoming soon.
U.S.-China Relations
INTERVIEWER: And arguably, the most complex relationship you’re going to have to manage is that with China. Are you planning on going to Beijing anytime soon?
MARCO RUBIO: We have no plans to go at this time, but you’re right. I mean, look. The future of the 21st century will be about the relationship between the United States and China. China’s going to be a rich and powerful country. They already are. That’s—we’re not going to keep them from being a rich and powerful country. What we cannot allow is to live in a world where China dominates an entire continent and nobody there can have deals with us. What we cannot have is to live in a world where we depend on China for things we need to be strong.
We can’t depend on them for industry. We can’t depend on them for the critical minerals. We can’t depend on them for energy. We can’t depend on them for medicine. We can’t allow them to take over the car industry, the tech telecommunication industry. That can’t happen. We can’t reach a point in the world where the United States depends on China. That’s not—we can never allow that to happen. It’s not about containing them. It’s about reestablishing real balance.
They’re a great power. They’re going to be a great power. It’s a big country. It’s historically been a great power, but there needs to be fairness and equality in that imbalance and that relationship, and it cannot lead to an America that’s dependent on China for everything that makes us safe and strong and prosperous.
U.S.-Cuba Relations
INTERVIEWER: The final question, and I think it’s a very good place to answer. Do you see yourself, as the representative of the United States government ever going to Havana?
MARCO RUBIO: Well, first of all, we don’t—I have no intention of going to Havana with this regime in place other than to discuss when they’re going to leave. That regime is a disaster. It’s destroyed the country. It’s turning Cuba into a nursing home. Sadly, the only people that can’t—don’t leave are the ones that are too old or too sick to leave. They’ve lost ten, twelve percent of their population just in the last three years. They’re incompetent, and they’re evil, that regime. And but they’re also a threat to the United States. They’ve invited China to open spy bases. They invite Russia in. They’re partners with Iran. They just joined a partnership with South Africa to support Hamas at the expense of Israel. That isn’t a government—that is a regime that is hostile to the United States. And so until that changes, there’s—
INTERVIEWER: Secretary, thank you for your time.
MARCO RUBIO: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Closing Remarks
INTERVIEWER: So that was the very latest from Secretary Rubio speaking with Fox News about his agenda in South America. And then on the left side of your screen, we had the live events and top stories we are following on this Tuesday. Speaking of Secretary Rubio, though, I want to give you all the latest tweet that came down on X. You see it there on your screen. It says, quote, “Met the staff of our US embassy who, like many of the individuals working in embassies and consulates worldwide, are the face of our country. As I said when I entered the State Department for the first time, it is an honor and a privilege to oversee such a talented diplomatic corps.” And then don’t forget, coming up around 12:30 this afternoon Eastern time, Secretary Rubio will hold a joint news conference in Costa Rica.
