Transcript of Captain Sherry Walker on The Tucker Carlson Show

So everything’s bottom line now, Tucker.

Corporate Priorities vs. Safety

TUCKER CARLSON: And yet ESG is not really, strictly speaking, bottom line. It pleases Larry Fink, who’s probably done more than any person to really hurt this country. But sidebar. But for your average customer, you get the feeling that incompetent people are in air traffic control, incompetent people are in the cockpit. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it shakes people’s faith, scares the crap out of people. And then planes start crashing. You’re like, that’s why. That seems like against the core interests of the business.

SHERRY WALKER: I would agree, but because people at the corporate level want to drive the interest rates down to be able to grow, because it’s all about expanding who is the biggest, right. And so they have to follow some of those mandates.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

SHERRY WALKER: And so then we start looking at a particular CEO who said, in 21, 50% of my incoming pilots will be women or people of color. First of all, that number is impossible. They don’t exist. But when you take merit out of it and you start hiring people based on an attribute that has nothing to do with flying airplanes or controlling them, you start moving down a path of incompetence and it breeds itself all the way down throughout every department in the airline.

Breaking the Glass Ceiling

TUCKER CARLSON: Nicely put. I should note the obvious, which is that you are a woman and you started flying, you said commercially in 1991, the year I left college. So there can’t have been too many female pilots flying commercially in 1991.

SHERRY WALKER: Well, the original 21 female airline pilots broke the glass ceiling. I didn’t break it, but I kind of crawled through because of them. And, you know, on we go. But in all of my career, I’ve always been one of the guys. I’m an airman. I’m proud to be an airman. You can’t call me an air person. I’ve earned it because I’ve done exactly what everyone else has done.

And so when a passenger comes on and they look in the cockpit now today, they look a little sideways that there’s a woman up here.

TUCKER CARLSON: Definitely.

SHERRY WALKER: And especially if I might be sitting next to a Hispanic or an African American, they’re wondering how we got our jobs.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, that is absolutely right.

SHERRY WALKER: DEI hurts those that weren’t a product of it as well. And that’s unfair to me and to my co-workers.

Changing Standards in the Industry

TUCKER CARLSON: So have you noticed this internally? You said a CEO of an airline announced four years ago that we’re going to hire 50% female or non-white pilots. But do you feel that as a pilot, do you notice the standards changing?

SHERRY WALKER: I don’t know that I noticed the standard changing, but I know what’s expected of me has changed quarterly. We have a computer based training and it was kind of insidious the way they crept it in here. First it’s a little, don’t discriminate against people. The next thing it’s a little more.

At my airline last year I was asked in the DEI training to certify that Tom says, who is now Kathy, that he’s a woman, therefore he’s always been a woman. Now wait a minute, I’m a faithful person. He’s a dude in a dress. And I am not going to agree that I will believe that he’s always been a woman. So I said no. Several people said no. We had to apply for religious accommodations. And then we were asked to do what we always do, which is just treat people with dignity and respect. I’ve done that forever. You know, I don’t care who you love, right? But I will always treat you with dignity and respect, but only because of the pushback.

Now, this year’s training, they’ve dialed it back, but they’re trying to creep the things in that don’t matter, Tucker. What matters is how to fly an approach. Do you know the regulations? Are you safe? Right. This other stuff is distracting, and it’s distracting at the FAA as well.

The Irrelevance of Identity in Aviation

TUCKER CARLSON: So how has anyone explained why it’s relevant the color of a pilot?

SHERRY WALKER: No, I have no idea.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it started with, like, we have, you know, you’re probably racist. We have to make you non-racist. And then it goes from there to, it’s really important. The skin color of a pilot is really important somehow. But no one ever says why.

SHERRY WALKER: No. Or, you know, whether they wear a dress or pants in my case. So, you know, in the US 96.4% of all pilots are male.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

SHERRY WALKER: Right. So there’s like less than 4% female airline transport pilots. We can do everything, and I’m an advocate for doing everything we can to get people interested in the job. But, Tucker, there are some people who just don’t need to be doing the job either. And you can’t fit a square peg in a round hole. I can teach anyone to fly, sure. But there’s some that I would not want by my family.

TUCKER CARLSON: Have you seen those people?

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Like, give me an example.

Skill Sets and Aptitude

SHERRY WALKER: One of my first students, female, I tried to teach her how to fly. She could fly, but she just couldn’t put it back together. You know, when you go around, it’s pushed the power up and it was dainty. It was just some skill sets that they just don’t have. An aggression and, you know, a willingness to get out there and learn it.

TUCKER CARLSON: You know, to manhandle the machine. Right? Yeah.

SHERRY WALKER: You have to be in control. Especially at a Cessna. Right?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

SHERRY WALKER: You know, it’s not like my auto throttle, big 767 autopilot, et cetera. But the bigger problem we’re having today is because it’s a lucrative career, a lot of people want it. They’ve been talked into getting involved. And so they see the money, they might not be quite fit for it.

I’m also a college professor. I teach human factors for Indiana Wesleyan. So I deal with a lot of the undergraduates and the people coming up. People quit their jobs midlife. I’m going to chase the money. They don’t realize what they’re doing. And it’s a different generation. And my son is of that generation, so I don’t want to speak badly of them. The priorities are different. Right.

And so to get them to understand the commitment that it takes to succeed in this career and to get all the way through it, and then to have them, you know, it’s kind of entitlement, if I can say that, you know, and they grow up, and I don’t want people to think I’m saying, you know, I walked a mile in the snow to school. Therefore, you’re not qualified. Right?

The Evolution of Pilot Training

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

SHERRY WALKER: But airplane technology has changed. We learned to manhandle those Cessna 172s, and from that, we learned how to manhandle the next biggest airplane. These kids are growing up in glass cockpits with computers. They’re learning to fly with their fingers. When they get to the airline, it’s not an aviator that’s coming there, it’s an operator. And so when they take off, put the autopilot on, fly the autopilot with auto throttles to landing.

Ask Al Haines in Sioux City, Iowa, how to fly an airplane without an autopilot. He saved a lot of lives. That skill is not there. And it takes time to build that skill. We could even take those young 1500 hours, and we’re doing it. But it takes a long time to mentor.

So we’ve got pilots now that are coming in at minimum skills having learned on glass cockpits and in a year, upgrading to captain. I had 12 years of watching the good and the bad of the airline world, and I took the good from them and I left the bad behind. And I think I’m a pretty decent captain now. But those kids are jumping so fast, and then they’re running the unions because they’re young and they’re eager.

And so us old people are saying, hey, you know what? We’re at a critical moment where we don’t have qualified pilots. We’d like to keep them a little longer. We’d be willing to work an extra couple years. But they vote and they say, no, get out of my seat, old man or old woman? Excuse me. They don’t want to raise the pilot age. So the Airline Pilots association is complicit in the problem.

The Dangers of Inexperience

TUCKER CARLSON: It feels like everything is fine until there’s a problem. So you read about, even now you read about planes stalling. You know, something happens and the plane just falls out of the sky. And I’ve read a number of times of trained pilots who, you know, apply the throttle and point upwards as it’s stalling, which I don’t think is the right. I think it’s the opposite of what you’re supposed to do. But they panic under pressure.

So that seems like a huge problem. If you’re not screening carefully for temperament, ability to think clearly under duress, and you’re not allowing people to accumulate relevant experience before turning over the cockpit to them.

SHERRY WALKER: No, I would agree.

TUCKER CARLSON: Describe, if you don’t mind, since you’ve flown for so long, a scenario where something goes wrong unexpectedly and you have to think independently from the autopilot.

Critical Moments in Flight

SHERRY WALKER: Well, the most dangerous part of your flight, most people don’t know it, is takeoff in a jet.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

SHERRY WALKER: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why? Why is it most dangerous?

SHERRY WALKER: As we get to the end of the runway at critical speed, V1, we call it V1 liftoff. The airplane is at full power and you have an engine failure. Now you have asymmetrical thrust, and so it’s very critical to lower the nose, do the proper steps. And a lot of times there’s critical terrain. So we have a path we have to fly. And a lot of things are happening very quickly. And so doing it by the book, it’s what we train for over and over and over again.

TUCKER CARLSON: Losing an engine on takeoff, on takeoff.

SHERRY WALKER: It is the most critical point of your entire flight. And so that’s what we train for. That’s what they pay me for. Yeah, they don’t pay me for the simple stuff, the landings and cruise at altitude and all that. They pay me for that V1 cut.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really? V1 cut.

SHERRY WALKER: Yes. Right at the speed, we call it V1 velocity 1. So at that critical speed is when we V1 rotate the airplane off the runway. Engine failure, asymmetrical thrust kicks in, a whole bunch of rudder in a 767. It takes a lot. You know, you stand on it, get it straight, and fly it up to roughly 800ft, lower the nose, work the checklist. And it’s a two-man job. That’s a critical reason we can’t go to single pilot.

TUCKER CARLSON: How is it a two-man job?

SHERRY WALKER: Because somebody’s gotta read the checklist and somebody’s gotta fly the airplane. I can’t fly that airplane looking down at that checklist.

TUCKER CARLSON: That does happen, right?

SHERRY WALKER: And everyone we’ve had that I can remember has been extremely successful.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really? So people survived them all.

SHERRY WALKER: People survived the last actual death in the US transport category, outside of the commuters, 2005 Southwest. And it actually wasn’t onboard the plane. It was at the gas station across the street of Midway.

So we have an incredible safety record, but we have that safety record because of the people up front. Right. The system’s kind of working against us, though. I don’t know if you’ve seen the preliminary results of the DCA midair.

The DCA Helicopter Collision

TUCKER CARLSON: No.

SHERRY WALKER: We have a serious problem.

TUCKER CARLSON: So describe what you think happened there.

SHERRY WALKER: It’s not what I think happened.

TUCKER CARLSON: So DCA, the plane that hit the helicopter. Over the aircraft.

SHERRY WALKER: Right, the helicopter that hit the airplane.

TUCKER CARLSON: DCA being the in town airport in Washington. Speak in language Washington. Reagan National.

SHERRY WALKER: Thank you. No, I know what I know from watching the NTSB press conference and chairwoman was speaking. She explained several things. It’s only preliminary. No blame was assigned at this point. I have my personal belief on blame. But the design of the system failed those passengers. The way that route through there was designed, they looked back for 11 years. 945 plus thousand potential incursions in 11 years. My teeth hit the floor.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I thought we had air traffic control to prevent that.

SHERRY WALKER: We do. But the problem she detailed is the design of the system that approach. If the helicopter is in the right place, the perfect ideal place, the clearance between the approaching aircraft and the helicopter at one point is as low as 75ft.

TUCKER CARLSON: Come on.

SHERRY WALKER: Watch her debrief. I was astounded. The rotor blades on that helicopter are like 30ft radius. Holy cow. And now we know the helicopter was outside of the ideal place and obviously 75ft. Tucker, when I pre-flight an airplane between my first officer and myself, the regulation says they have to be within 75ft. So right there we’ve taken out the protection. What in the world was the FAA doing?

TUCKER CARLSON: And this is in the nation’s capital and these are military helicopters and commercial aircraft. All eyes are on that airport. That airport has all kinds of restrictions on it. After 9/11, you know better than anybody, no private aviation, all this stuff, they really pay a lot of attention. It’s like 10 seconds from the White House. So if they’re that sloppy at DCA of all airports, what the hell are they doing in Santa Monica or wherever, Wichita or LAX?

The FAA’s Dual Role

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. Who knows? Who knows? Where does the data go? The problem is the FAA is twofold master, right? A regulatory body, a promotion of the industry. So what is that?

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m sorry, I don’t know what that means. Promotion of the industry.

SHERRY WALKER: The charge to the FAA is to promote air travel in the United States and to regulate it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Huh?

SHERRY WALKER: That’s been their mandate from the beginning. Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really?

SHERRY WALKER: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: So they’re the policeman and the PR agent, I guess.

SHERRY WALKER: Because how did Boeing get the right to self-certify the Max.

TUCKER CARLSON: What does it mean, self-certify the Max?

SHERRY WALKER: So an inspector didn’t have to go look at the 737 Max. Boeing had the right to certify itself. That’s been pulled back. Everything that happens in aviation, every regulation, happens as the result of blood, right? And so nobody’s being proactive in this agency. Now, I love Secretary Duffy, and I love his attitude. And it looks like the new nominee for the FAA administrative great. But the question is the next level bureaucrats. These are people who have, for their entire careers be it at—and a lot came from the military—they like sitting behind green government desks and drinking government coffee. And so to have to get up and go over there and look at those reports or do something with them, that’s got to change.

The Toronto Plane Incident

TUCKER CARLSON: So here’s what we know. Just to go back to the DCA crash for a minute because it’s…

SHERRY WALKER: And all I know is what she said in her press conference.

TUCKER CARLSON: It is.

SHERRY WALKER: It was astounding.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why don’t we know who was flying the helicopter?

SHERRY WALKER: I’m sure they do. Based on, I mean, the voices. One was a female, one was a male. Right. So the flying pilot is never the talking pilot. So just listening to the tapes, you could tell if it’s a female voice, then the male was flying. If it was a male voice, female flying.

TUCKER CARLSON: So I don’t know why the hesitance to assign blame. All these people died.

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, no, no. It’s not hesitance to sign blame. This is the initial. This is just the fact piece. It takes up to a year. They go through all the flight data. We don’t know if she was off her location because of mechanical failure. You know, we all want the answer as to why, but we in the industry want the fix, of course. So were the altimeters off? Was it a training issue? Was somebody in the wrong place? Was it air traffic control, et cetera? So we’ve got to go through all of that and they’ll recreate it and superimpose it and fly it in a simulator and check these different pieces and parameters, and then they’ll start looking at blame.

TUCKER CARLSON: But your point is the structure itself was reckless and crazy.

SHERRY WALKER: The system was broken and it should have never happened.

TUCKER CARLSON: There was a plane in—I know you saw this in Canada, I think in Toronto at Pearson, that came in really, really hard on landing and flipped over. Remarkably, everyone survived.

SHERRY WALKER: Great job by the flight attendants.

TUCKER CARLSON: I guess that’s my point. Wherever you get to the stage where you’re relying on the flight attendants to save you.

SHERRY WALKER: But that’s what they’re trained to do. So that was actually perfect.

TUCKER CARLSON: And God bless them, of course. But like, how did we get to the point, like, how did it flip over? How do you flip over a plane on a runway? I don’t understand that.

SHERRY WALKER: They haven’t given out the preliminary. I have my personal opinion. It’s only opinion.

TUCKER CARLSON: Of course. And you’re obviously.

SHERRY WALKER: I know the female was flying. Right. Because of the radio calls. I’m a human factors expert. Part of that involves vision. So I’m thinking that they were coming down and you’ve seen the snow kind of swirl across the road a little bit.

TUCKER CARLSON: For sure.

SHERRY WALKER: I think she was looking at the point and she was ready to transition her eyes and land, and she got a swirl. I think she lost a little bit of situational awareness with the runway. That’s what I think, because she flew it right into the runway hard.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that was the core problem. She hit too hard.

SHERRY WALKER: She hit too hard and it collapsed. It broke the gear and one wing went up. High wing is flying, low wing is not. And it flipped right over.

TUCKER CARLSON: Damn. Remarkable.

SHERRY WALKER: Some people think it is involving a gust, a last minute sheer, but I don’t see the ailerons moving on the wings to counteract that. So I still think it has something to do with just a little bit of situational awareness at the end. We’ll know. We’ll know.

Pilot Training and Experience Concerns

TUCKER CARLSON: So if you’re moving people through the process at accelerated speed, both for ideological reasons and for practical reasons.

SHERRY WALKER: Right. You got to fill the seats.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. You’re. And you’re hiring on the basis of a relevant criteria, then inevitably you’re going to get a reduced skill level. Like, how could you not?

SHERRY WALKER: Especially when the pilots are more worried about their rock videos and they’re part of a clique. If you’ve seen it. The girls at Endeavor embarrassed me, who I’m.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m missing.

SHERRY WALKER: You didn’t see the video?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, but I could tell. I’ll be okay.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. There was some promo video done by a bunch of young ladies, and they were talking about, you know, all female crew. And I think it was a recruiting video, but it was embarrassing to those of us who worked hard.

TUCKER CARLSON: What airline was this?

SHERRY WALKER: That was the airline Endeavor. I think it was Endeavor, the one that flipped in Toronto.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, seriously?

SHERRY WALKER: Seriously.

TUCKER CARLSON: And they put out a TikTok, but.

SHERRY WALKER: It was before that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Girl power TikTok.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, girl power TikTok came out and of course it broke the Internet after the accident. And so I want to fly with professional adults, not children. And that was kind of embarrassing.

TUCKER CARLSON: Have you personally ever flown with someone who you thought wasn’t quite up to the job?

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, wow.

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: How can you tell?

SHERRY WALKER: You can tell if their head’s in the game. I had one young man who had a broken heart, and we solved that problem. I had him replaced on the next trip. He was a little distracted. Some guys kind of all over the place with a stick. It’s interesting to watch your military single seat guys transition to transport category because they want to do this, but they settle down.

Most recently, and the most scary one I’ve had, I was flying and I was flying a visual approach into Houston and we’re at 1500ft and runway’s in sight. We’re all set. And he’d watched me fly for a little bit and he says, “Can I ask a question?” Of course. It’s sterile cockpit. You’re not supposed to. But I go, “Yeah.” He goes, “What are you looking at when you fly a visual approach?” I was astounded.

TUCKER CARLSON: The ground, I said, when we get.

SHERRY WALKER: On the ground, we’ll talk about this. No, you’re cross checking your instruments, you’re double checking the ILS, there’s some outside light indicators, all the inside, outside to aviate an airplane. And you’re checking your speed. And he really didn’t understand. And I said, why do you not understand? He said, because in the simulator they told me, fly the autopilot to 50ft, click it off, look up and land. I almost fell over.

And I’ve talked to a lot of people about this and I don’t really think that that’s what they were training. I think what they were trying to train was how to do a visual approach in a simulator that doesn’t allow it and they just need to change. So you’ll learn this out on the line. You know, this is how we’re going to teach you to fly the simulator only. But he understood that to be how you would operate in an airplane. So the disconnect is there because the experience level wasn’t there. So if I have a pilot approaching me saying, “What are you looking at when you land an airplane?” that’s a problem.

TUCKER CARLSON: So I think for, you know, non-pilot civilians like me, the expectation is that all your pilots either come from the military or Embry Riddle or school.

SHERRY WALKER: Like school like sure.

TUCKER CARLSON: Or school like Embry Riddle being the most famous.

The Changing Landscape of Commercial Aviation

SHERRY WALKER: My alma mater.

TUCKER CARLSON: Your alma mater. But that they’re all kind of like aviation nuts and they like bug their dad for lessons at the local airport. And that they have a lot of experience in Cessnas and that that’s really relevant because the basics of aviation are just so obvious in a little plane. Right. Do you ever get pilots who don’t have that experience?

SHERRY WALKER: No, most have that experience or at least come up through the civilian world. Military is getting harder to find. We’re not the military shorthanded as it is. People aren’t leaving. You know, we haven’t had a war recently. So they’re not leaving the military. They’ve all left the military. Because of the policies. And they’re here already. There’s no one in the pipeline. And so that’s the problem. It’s who’s out there.

And so people that weren’t necessarily the creme de la creme. Now we’re stuck with what’s left. And it’s, we try to fill seats. I will say, well, the economic demise of something like a Spirit is a bad thing for those people. We’re now starting to get them coming to the big airlines. And so that’s good for the passengers. It’s good for them. They do have experience.

But that rapid desire to grow post pandemic, we, my airline went from 10,000 pilots to as of last week, 18,000 in two and a half, three years. That changes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Where’d those new pilots come from?

SHERRY WALKER: Everywhere. The Internet, mostly. Microsoft Flight Simulator. No, mostly, you know, the regionals. We’d already drained the military. So they’re coming up as fast as they can. And they out of College, restricted ATP at 1250 hours, fly to 1500, interview and right in the door, right in the right seat of a 75 57. And two years later you’re a captain and you’re talking about 26, 25.

TUCKER CARLSON: Ooh.

The Experience Gap

SHERRY WALKER: So that slow down judgment isn’t there either. The hardest thing I have to do at work, Tucker, is explain to my new first officers that when you see on your papers that the van leaves at 8:00 that go, not show, don’t show up, then pay your credit card bill and all these things. They’re young. I don’t want to generationalize this and say that whole entire. Because my son’s of that generation and he’s responsible. They’re just irresponsible, want to do it their own way.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

SHERRY WALKER: They’re just green at life. Not just at piloting, they’re green at life. They haven’t dealt with responsibilities and things and you know, they don’t want to fly. They call fatigued a half hour before the flight and it’s like, dude, you had better be where you need to be. That’s what they pay us for, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: You’ve had people crap out a half.

SHERRY WALKER: An hour before Saturday night in Newark and I was a passenger. Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: No way. Like just too hungover to fly.

SHERRY WALKER: No, he’d flown, he’d flown from one airport into Newark. Started at 9:00 at night, flew a 30 minute flight. They were going to reassign him to cover the late flight, and he just said, no, I’m fatigued.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, wow.

SHERRY WALKER: So that becomes a problem, too. So all of these reasons that we need to maybe hold on to our senior pilots, to mentor our junior pilots a little longer, they add up.

TUCKER CARLSON: What? Just to finish it up, what happened to the kid who asked you what you’re looking at while you’re landing?

SHERRY WALKER: We talked about it. He’s good. He’ll be just fine. And I have talked to the training department and explained to them that we have some questions out there. So I’ll see him again shortly on another trip, and we’ll talk about it again. But I’m sure he’s.

Fear and Emergency Response

TUCKER CARLSON: In all these decades of flying, have you ever been afraid in a plane?

SHERRY WALKER: Never.

TUCKER CARLSON: Not one time?

SHERRY WALKER: Never. Don’t have time to Tucker. Instinct takes over. Adrenaline takes over. If your pilot’s afraid, they probably shouldn’t be there.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, that’s right.

SHERRY WALKER: In fact, everything just slows down as fast as I go. And I am. You know, most people say, sure, you talk too fast. No, I say, you listen too slow. But, you know, when it comes down to the emergency, everything just stops. And that’s what you want.

TUCKER CARLSON: Have you had emergencies?

SHERRY WALKER: I’ve been blessed. No. My husband, however, has a black cloud over his head.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really? What happened to him? I’m looking at him out of the.

SHERRY WALKER: Corner of my eye right now.

TUCKER CARLSON: He looks very calm, I must say.

SHERRY WALKER: 1998, on St. Patty’s Day. Yesterday was the anniversary of his almost near death. It was a near midair at Newark. Let’s see. Is that a rapid decompression, an explosive decompression, a full hydraulic system failure. And he took one of my flights because we were on the same airplane at the time. And he flew to Santiago, Chile, and he had a complete standby power system failure, which is something that should have never happened in a Boeing 767.

TUCKER CARLSON: So what. What. What does that mean?

SHERRY WALKER: It means they armed the autopilot for the approach. An explosion came out of the dash. Everything goes crazy. The first officer flies. They have no auto brakes, they have no speed brakes. They have no number one radio. Everything is gone. And he landed the airplane and stuck his big cowboy boots on those brakes and slid the airplane a little sideways, blew six trucks, I think. Melted the wheels to the runway or to the taxiway, and they shot him with water for what, two hours? And he called me up and he goes, you owe me. And I went, don’t wake me up for another hour. Bye. Had no idea what had happened. He was on the news. It was crazy.

TUCKER CARLSON: But what was the cause of it? Did anyone figure it out?

SHERRY WALKER: Some sort of an electrical short out in the system.

Safety Concerns

TUCKER CARLSON: But do you ever worry about fire while you’re flying?

SHERRY WALKER: That’s my biggest fear.

TUCKER CARLSON: Me, too.

SHERRY WALKER: Fire is the one thing you don’t want to deal with.

TUCKER CARLSON: But does that ever happen?

SHERRY WALKER: Haven’t seen it in a while. You know, what was it? Air Transat or was it Swiss Air up in the North Atlantic? Going in, they diverted into Gander or one of them, and they didn’t quite make it.

TUCKER CARLSON: So because of Fire.

SHERRY WALKER: Fire. We take lithium batteries very seriously. Right? Because we have containment bags. If your laptop, lithium starts to go, because, you know, that’s kind of an uncontrollable fire. We want to get that out. So, you know, again, everything that happens happens in blood. And we change the rules.

TUCKER CARLSON: So what are the rules now on lithium batteries?

SHERRY WALKER: Boy, you. I’m not familiar. It comes with dangerous goods report. But, you know, you can have whatever you have on the plane, but if you check something with a lithium battery and you don’t disclose it, it’s a big deal because, you know, all of that, as long as we know about it, they package and properly, like a wheelchair or something like that. But they just want you to disclose it.

TUCKER CARLSON: So is there any way for them to know if you don’t disclose it?

SHERRY WALKER: I don’t know.

TUCKER CARLSON: Damn.

SHERRY WALKER: I don’t know. I don’t think there’s a sense.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that’s your number one fear?

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. Fire is it. But, you know, I also worry about the mental health of the person flying next to me.

Mental Health Concerns

TUCKER CARLSON: There have been a lot of pilot suicides. Well, I mean, relatively speaking. Turkish Air.

SHERRY WALKER: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Maybe Malaysian Air.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. You know, you had German wings. That was a big one. And that was in 2016. And the pilot, you know, captain left the flight deck and the first officer punched a hold in the Alps and took everybody with him. And that’s a bad thing.

But the worst thing now, or the fear of mine, is as we’re moving through this whole. Kathy says she’s a woman, but she’s really not. CFA certification process. I still question how those people with the new executive orders that says, you know, birth gender has to be on your medical certificate, it has to be on your pilot’s license. I don’t know if that’s been done yet, but I question how these people got certified to begin with.

So we go back and we do a little history 2012, some lobbying they lighten the requirements for psychological testing if you’re transgender from massive amounts of reports down to one or two. Seriously lobbying.

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you know who lobbied for that?

SHERRY WALKER: There is a particular female pilot, or, excuse me, transgender pilot, who was able to get some folks in Congress. But it gets worse. In 16, when the federal air surgeon, Dr. Michael Berry, was distracted about pilot mental health, dealing with the outcome of the German wings, the several transgender organizations and another pilot really pushed and they got Barney Frank and congressman out of California to take up their charge.

And the way they did it was pretty brilliant. The Diagnostics and Statistics Manual of the American Psychiatric association, the DSM, had changed from revision four to five, the definition from gender dysphoric disorder to gender dysphoria. Now, they did it for a reason. They wanted to take the stigma off for the poor transgender people. Right. But they couldn’t fully pull it out because then there wouldn’t be a diagnosis code and they could not then use their insurance to cover their surgeries or their hormone replacements. There’s articles all over the Internet about it. Right, that’s fascinating. They were playing the game because the American Psychiatric association, of course, supports all that.

TUCKER CARLSON: So they’re absurd. I mean, and I mean this with the full pejorative connotations. They’re crazy, actually. The psychiatrists are nuts.

Medical Standards and Safety

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, exactly. The inmates are running the asylum. So they did this move on. And Berry was kind of looking one way, or maybe he was on it, but this was under the Obama administration, so we’re just starting to see this push. Right. And so the FAA changed the rules and they said, well, you’ve got to have a little bit of testing, but if you’re five years transitioned or five years on hormones, you can just go back to your regular aviation medical examiner and just get your six month check, no special issuance required.

Wait a second. At the time that was going on, there were studies out there that showed exactly what you indicated. In fact, the statistics from the National Transgender something, their own statistics, they had surveyed over 27,000 of their members, and I believe it was 39% said they had suffered serious mental health issues in the month prior to the survey. 40% said they had attempted suicide in their lifetime, and 7% in the month prior to the survey data was available.

TUCKER CARLSON: 7%. 7%. I shouldn’t laugh, it’s tragic, but 7% tried to kill themselves in the last month.

SHERRY WALKER: In the last month of 27,000 people. Do the math. I mean, somewhere in there there’s gotta be an airline pilot applicant. Right. So why did the federal air surgeon not like, look at some of the data that was available?

TUCKER CARLSON: You don’t want suicidal people flying commercial airplanes.

SHERRY WALKER: Suicidal people flying airplanes. But even more importantly, studies have been done since then that are even worse now. We look at the medical side of it and hormone replacement therapy.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

SHERRY WALKER: Right. Do you know what it the number one thing the FAA aeromedical department is pilot incapacitation. Right. That’s heart attacks. That’s deep vein thrombosis. It’s strokes. Everything that we go through as pilots, aside from our ability to hear and see, is to ensure that we will not become incapacitated in our seat. Right. I’m not going to fall over because I have diabetes or something like that.

So I think it was 2020 and it was updated in 23. They conducted a study of males transitioning to females on hormone replacement theory. Now they’re not just pilots, just in general. 80 to 90% increase for DVT, heart attack and stroke. FAA is a risk averse agency.

TUCKER CARLSON: Seriously?

SHERRY WALKER: Seriously.

TUCKER CARLSON: There are physical threats, not just like a person becomes suicidal.

SHERRY WALKER: But that’s one, that’s a big one. That scares me the most.

TUCKER CARLSON: But I agree.

SHERRY WALKER: If the FAA is a risk advice.

TUCKER CARLSON: But cardiovascular effects.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: I didn’t know that.

SHERRY WALKER: If you’re a risk adverse agency and you won’t even consider a drug I might be taking because it might possibly indicate that I might have a heart attack.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

SHERRY WALKER: Why are you allowing these people who have an 80 to 90% increased chance for that to be in an airplane because they’re taking hormone replacement therapy.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s so wrong to do that to the public.

SHERRY WALKER: But there’s no research arm that I fund at FAA because they’re enjoying their coffee in their green desk. Nobody’s reading peer reviewed studies. Nobody’s looking at this going, you know, we might want to walk that back. And that’s scary.

TUCKER CARLSON: So what drugs are you not allowed to take as a commercial airline pilot? There’s a bunch of them, right?

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. But you know what? They don’t publish the list. So you don’t even know. Only your aviation medical examiner knows.

TUCKER CARLSON: But you could. But I know from knowing there’s many.

SHERRY WALKER: That you can’t take many.

TUCKER CARLSON: So like, you probably think about your health. You think about the drugs that you take because of.

SHERRY WALKER: You don’t take anything.

TUCKER CARLSON: You.

SHERRY WALKER: I’m, I, you know, I use holistic stuff for colds and things.

TUCKER CARLSON: Good for you. I’m with you 100%. But, but you could take like radical doses of male hormones. And that would be cool.

SHERRY WALKER: Well, you have to disclose it on your medical. But it appears after five years of taking radical doses, they don’t make you. I mean, you disclose it, they don’t really care. You can go five. That was the key of the 2016 change. If you can go five years, welcome to the club.

It’s like, so you have to report it, you know, and you have to have exams for that. But even then, all of that was just about their mental health. Nobody is considering what these hormones do long term. But it’s even more criminal. That’s just a transgender issue.

FAA are medical when it comes to the COVID vaccine. The FDA approved Comirnaty at what, 6:00 at night on December 18th. The next morning, same federal air surgeon approves it. Worldwide use in airline pilots.

TUCKER CARLSON: Who is the federal air surgeon at that time?

SHERRY WALKER: It was Dr. Michael Berry. He retired a week later and went to work for a pilot insurance company. But the criminal actions happening, that sounds like a crime.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, isn’t he supposed to assess its effects on the millions of Americans.

SHERRY WALKER: Who fly well, at least take a look at, maybe do a longitudinal study on the transgender issue. But when it comes to the COVID situation, the effects of altitude pressurization, and we work in a very dry humidity. We don’t. This is an EUA product. It’s never had an EUA product ever, ever certified for use in pilots. And he’d written many articles on the drug certification program.

Health Risks for Commercial Pilots

TUCKER CARLSON: Can I just ask. Cause I’m interested. Like, what are the effects on your health as a pilot of spending 35 years in a cockpit? Because it is a weird.

SHERRY WALKER: I have wrinkles. It’s dry, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, it’s dry.

SHERRY WALKER: So hydration, cosmic radiation. I’ve had skin cancer coming through the. Well, it’s cosmic radiation is when you fly above the tropopause or up in that area. Right. So there’s radiation all the time. It’s not just when the sun’s shining.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

SHERRY WALKER: It’s exactly what the astronauts suffer up on the space station. You know, it’s radiation that’s up there. So a lot of your pilots. High levels of prostate cancer among male pilots, breast cancer among female pilots. Through the roof, really. We’re not in a shielded environment. The higher you fly, the stronger it is. So when we look at those sorts of things, yeah, take care of yourself, folks. But we don’t know what those drugs were doing to people. And we don’t know pressurization, humidity, and altitude effects on them.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, because it is a totally different environment from the one the rest of us live in day to day. So explain what happened with COVID. So, Covid, so just if you don’t mind telling that story because I think it’s interesting from.

SHERRY WALKER: From the mandate perspective.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, from a mandate perspective.

SHERRY WALKER: Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Not from the Wuhan lab.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, no.

TUCKER CARLSON: Fauci funded. No.

Fighting the Vaccine Mandate

SHERRY WALKER: Well, I mean, it’s interesting, Tucker, because I really never thought I’d ever get into any of this fight. I’m just a mom. I’m cruising along through life. And New Year’s Eve of 2018, I looked in the rearview mirror and the lights were going off and I pulled over. I got busted for DUI.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah.

SHERRY WALKER: Greatest thing that ever happened to me. And God, I questioned him. And my darling husband said, he never gives you more than you can handle, Sherry. And I didn’t know at the time, but he was preparing me for the fight of my life. I had to fight to get my job back. The FAA was straightforward because of my former union work, I believe maybe it was a little more difficult than normal at my airline, but I succeeded and I got all my back pay and everything I needed. But it taught me how to navigate against a corporate conglomerate.

So I’m back to work. And on August 6th, the CEO of my airline announces that there will be a vaccine mandate or you’ll be fired in a month.

TUCKER CARLSON: And I’m sorry, 2021.

SHERRY WALKER: 2021. August 6th. Craziest day of my life. Called my best friend. She’s also a captain and she’s known around the airline as kind of the mom type and she’s the head of vaccine injured family member. So Laura Cox and myself, along with the wife of one of the pilots who’s an attorney, Danielle, the three of us got our heads together and we said, how are we going to get through this? Because I’m not going to violate my faith and take a product that derived from aborted fetal tissue cells, et cetera, et cetera. And that was the thing.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s just a conspiracy theory. That’s not true.

SHERRY WALKER: Shall I throw the glass of water down?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, no. It’s just so funny. It’s like for that whole period, I tried to think about COVID and that whole chapter in our country’s history and in my life, but you would hear people say, well, I’m getting a religious exemption. And then no one ever asked why. And if you ask why, they’d be like, well, there’s some connection between the vaccines, the COVID vaccines and abortion. And then you’d hear someone in the background say, that’s a lie, and then just sort of move on. And no one ever talked about it. But those vaccines were derived from aborted babies.

SHERRY WALKER: Fortified fetal tissue cells were used in either the development or the manufacture of all three of the US approved drugs.

TUCKER CARLSON: So I think. I haven’t checked because I’m trying to read Wikipedia, because it’s just CIA controlled lies, which it is, but I bet you to this day they deny that. But that’s just a fact.

SHERRY WALKER: It’s a fact. It’s a fact. Ask the Secretary of Health and Human Services. He’ll tell you the facts. Yeah, so.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that was a no go for you right there.

SHERRY WALKER: That was a no go for me. It was a no go for my husband. It was also a no go for Laura. And about eight. Well, at the beginning, there’s probably 20,000 people that united. It was no go. And so as it progressed, 8,000.

The pressure got put on us. They sent postcards to our house so that in our case, we’re married, didn’t matter. But they would send a postcard to your house and that would say, you know, you only have 22 days left to get the vaccine or be terminated. Well, the wife won’t open your mail, but she’ll read your postcard, right? So she reads it, she goes, honey, we’re going to lose everything. People would acquiesce. They told people that you would lose your 401k if you didn’t come, leave the company or get the shot. I mean the mid level managers, you know, that are.

TUCKER CARLSON: Did you lose your 401k?

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, I have a recording of a pilot being told that you can’t have.

TUCKER CARLSON: Your retirement, you can’t have your own money.

SHERRY WALKER: Right. It gets better. But this pressure was just intense, right? And so people would fall off and the whole reasonable accommodation process was onerous and corrupt in itself. And there’s thousands of pages of discovery documents on our organization’s website. So if anybody wants to read about. But they wanted to put like scarlet letters on our ID badges for the unvaccinated so the other people would point and pick on us. It was crazy.

But the three of us got together, put our heads together, we hired the best law firm we could find, Sheridan out of D.C. and we filed for an injunction and we still didn’t quite get there. In November of 21, every one of us were put on unpaid, indefinite leave, basically fired.

TUCKER CARLSON: What did they say to you?

SHERRY WALKER: They didn’t. They just said, you’re done.

TUCKER CARLSON: And how long had you worked at the airline at that point?

SHERRY WALKER: Got hired in 1998. It was 2021.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s crazy town. So you spent your like most of your adult life there? Never had a problem?

SHERRY WALKER: No, I was a union rep. I’ve had my share, but fights, but yeah, in general, no, I’ve never had a fight. Oh gosh, no. Never failed a check ride. Never have done anything like that, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: And they just can you without.

SHERRY WALKER: Sayonara, see ya. But we kept moving.

TUCKER CARLSON: I want to attack your CEO. I don’t want. I used to work there, so I don’t want to make your life.

SHERRY WALKER: I mean it’s in the press. We all know there were three airlines that mandated the vaccine. Hawaiian, Coletta Air Cargo and United.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that’s it.

SHERRY WALKER: That was it. The rest were mandated eventually because nobody would follow along, right? They knew better.

TUCKER CARLSON: United was the only domestic.

SHERRY WALKER: Well, Hawaiian’s domestic technically not rats.

TUCKER CARLSON: Let’s be honest. The contiguous United States, Continental United States, you know, the big carriers, Delta, American, no, they were United.

SHERRY WALKER: When nobody followed. Then the president, Joe Biden, instituted the OSHA mandate, right? For contract, if you have more than 100 employees, you have to mandate this or the government contractor mandate. If you do work and everybody flies the mail. Right. $4.6 billion business every year to the airlines and flying U.S. mail.

So it was a contract. You had to mandate it. But the guys at SW Freedom Flyers North Me up in Dallas, they, you know, they did a little pushback, the American boys, the Delta folks. And so the exemption process for them was just kind of a paper mill. Their bosses were cool about it. They were just like, whatever. And eventually both those mandates were overturned in court.

TUCKER CARLSON: But that was the way to play it. By the way.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, be kind to your employees.

TUCKER CARLSON: 100%. Firing longtime employees because they don’t want a vaccine. I mean, it’s like, so cruel.

SHERRY WALKER: But it played into a marketing campaign.

TUCKER CARLSON: Who did that? Who made that decision?

The Vaccine Mandate and Its Aftermath

SHERRY WALKER: Well, it was made by the CEO. I mean, it’s in the court testimony, and the judge ruled that it was a pretextual situation whereby there was a marketing campaign at the bottom line. So there was a desire for that CEO to be able to come out publicly and say, in my opinion at least, that they were the first fully vaccinated airline. If they could do it by the holidays of December, maybe people would come back who’d want.

TUCKER CARLSON: Fly on the first fully vaccinated airline. I don’t. Yeah, I don’t want to fly an airline with vaccinated pilots because it’s dangerous. So that’s my view, but I guess a lot of people disagree. So this was a.

SHERRY WALKER: To his credit, his argument has always been, it’s been about safety. Safety for my employees. Look, I’m an adult. I can make my own medical decision, so I don’t need my CEO deciding my safety situation. But that was his argument. I want to just get that off.

TUCKER CARLSON: Get the experimental COVID vaccine. You can’t get or transmit Covid. Like we know that. Right? Did that turn out to be true?

SHERRY WALKER: I’ve never had Covid.

TUCKER CARLSON: Does this CEO. You don’t have to name him if you don’t want. But is he still running the airline?

SHERRY WALKER: Yep.

TUCKER CARLSON: It doesn’t have a board, I guess the company. I’m sorry, there’s no board.

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, yes, the board of directors. But, you know, this is all so crazy.

TUCKER CARLSON: No one’s.

SHERRY WALKER: But everybody. After the pandemic, remember, after this went away, and then we got. We went in court and we get called back, oh, we’re on to the next big thing, which is, you know, pilots. Male pilots, you know, or, excuse me, male flight attendants with beards, wearing lipstick or whatever. The issue of the day is so you know, that’s over. That’s over. Don’t worry.

The Personal Impact

TUCKER CARLSON: So what I keep stepping on this for you? Tell me. Okay, so this comes down, you go to court, try to get an injunction.

SHERRY WALKER: We don’t get the injunction.

TUCKER CARLSON: You don’t get it, and then you’re laid off, we’re out. Bam. Your husband, too, everybody? No, but in your case, in my house, too, yes.

SHERRY WALKER: Two of us, and my son, God bless him, you know, he was going to school and dealing with two pilots being home, which is unusual for him, but, you know, we.

TUCKER CARLSON: Your whole family’s unemployed in one day because of this.

SHERRY WALKER: Instantly, Overnight.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s kind of heavy, actually. How did you.

SHERRY WALKER: I mean, it was very heavy. You know what happened? 2000 people came together. Rampers, mechanics, flight attendants, pilots. We became a family overnight. I mean, over the last three years. I consider them my dearest, most wonderful friends. And I want to say thank you to every one of them for the support.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, what a blessing.

SHERRY WALKER: Because, I mean, to me, servant leadership, it’s the real deal. I agree. I led them. They blessed me to the ability to lead them right. With my friend Laura and Danielle. You know, these people are incredible, but we’ve been to birth together. We’ve been through marriages, we’ve been through deaths. And I will tell you, those 2,000 people are more important to me than anything in this world. And they’re there for each other. We had battle buddies. Somebody was feeling bad, you’d call a friend. We kept chat groups, and most of the time, they’re pretty prayerful. We’ve debated books of the Bible. I mean, we are just like this amazing.

The Numbers and Resistance

TUCKER CARLSON: So how many. So it was 2,000 people, in the end, got fired. And that was down from the initial number of people who said, I’m not.

SHERRY WALKER: Taking it, and 20,000 down to 8,000 down to this, you know, and.

TUCKER CARLSON: But in the end, it was 2,000 people who stood strong.

SHERRY WALKER: Plus or minus. Yeah, 2,000.

TUCKER CARLSON: Did anyone fake getting a vaccine?

SHERRY WALKER: I have no knowledge of that. I know a lot of people who have in my community. Not at my. My company. My husband’s PA says, you know, her mom and dad walked in and they. That somebody set it on the counter and there’s a trash when you’re done. I mean, you know, we have doctor friends that are saying that, so.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, and everyone had fake. I had a fake VAX card proudly. And I would do it again the next time there’s tyranny. I’m not. Okay.

SHERRY WALKER: There’s only one way to get fired from my airline it’s to lie. Other than that, you can.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

SHERRY WALKER: No, I’m not going to do it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, but you also make it. But it’s also wrong to lie. And I. And I lied in using a fake fax card.

SHERRY WALKER: No, that’s okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you were able to live your.

SHERRY WALKER: Life, and good for you.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, but. No, you’re right. That’s a moral compromise. And I. And I probably should have done that. I don’t know. Trying to think about it too much, but. No, but I think you’re taking a really principled position and saying. I’m going to say clearly what I believe. I don’t think I should be punished for it. When I am punished for it, I’m going to take my lumps and fight back. So. I admire what you.

Legal Battles

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. We went through the EEOC process and then on through the courts, and right now we sit in the Fifth Circuit on appeal, so.

TUCKER CARLSON: And I couldn’t be rooting for you more fervently, but thank you. Okay, so what happened then? So 2000 are fired with no support like you. They’re not.

SHERRY WALKER: In fact, you should have been able to tap your 401k in an emergency situation. Right. They locked us out.

TUCKER CARLSON: What, like you’re a criminal?

SHERRY WALKER: I could not access my 401k. They said, well, you could apply for another job in the company. I’m 57 years old. I’m going to go throw bags. Well, okay. If you want to pay me myself. Oh, no, no. You’re gonna do it for a baggage rate. I’m gonna have to drive to the airport every day and go throw.

TUCKER CARLSON: The CEO sounds like a pig, actually. Sorry. That’s my view.

SHERRY WALKER: You’re not saying that you’re welcome to this, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s my opinion. I just want to be clear. But he sounds like a pig.

SHERRY WALKER: If. You know Michael Barry in Houston, he has some. He’s a radio man, and he’s just.

TUCKER CARLSON: Sounds like an awful man. And I hope he’s punished. He will be. Anyway, so.

SHERRY WALKER: But we get called back because we won in the fifth Circuit.

TUCKER CARLSON: And how long was that?

SHERRY WALKER: It was. I think it was around February 17th that. So we were out November, December, January. Four months.

Financial and Emotional Toll

TUCKER CARLSON: You get into money trouble?

SHERRY WALKER: No.

TUCKER CARLSON: You got no income coming yet.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, but, you know, we’re old enough to have had some savings.

TUCKER CARLSON: Your savings. Right. But you’re. You’re burning reserves for those.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, we are burning reserves. I mean, but, you know, we don’t live a grandiose lifestyle, so, you know, cars are paid for and things like that. And, you know, we were able to.

TUCKER CARLSON: Peak, but there had to be people.

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, there were people that were selling everything. Laura, her husband, sold his dream, which was a small fishing boat. I mean, it was not like a. Anything big, but that was his dream because they needed to pay their bills. You know, people were selling everything, and some were taking other jobs. Mental health side of it was. Was scary. You don’t understand the number of people Brett or myself talked out of suicide. And it was tough, but we made it.

Breaking Down the Numbers

TUCKER CARLSON: So of those 2,000, can you just roughly break it down what they did? How many pilots?

SHERRY WALKER: 360, plus or minus pilots. Okay, there’s about seven. Let’s see. So that’s 350. There was about 50 to 100, what we call agents, you know, ticket agents. And the balance would have been flight attendants, the mechanics, the stores people. The majority of the agents that worked in larger cities, avionics, technicians, management, they were able to work with a masking and testing regime. But it was punitive. It wasn’t masking. It was N95 respirators. From the moment you pulled on property to the moment you left, you ate outside. Didn’t matter if it was snowing, raining, cold, you put it back between every.

TUCKER CARLSON: Bite and sip, wearing a yellow star the whole time.

SHERRY WALKER: That mask was the yellow star. And then you had to be tested on a rolling every seven days. And it didn’t matter if you were out on family medical leave, if you got hurt at work or were on vacation. You missed one test, you were terminated.

TUCKER CARLSON: And this is the one where they stick the stuff up your nose.

SHERRY WALKER: And that’s a whole nother issue.

TUCKER CARLSON: I never did that.

SHERRY WALKER: I would never do it.

TUCKER CARLSON: No.

SHERRY WALKER: So it was all punitive and it was all punishment, but they justified it in that those people didn’t work on board the airplane. So for safety reasons, they were away from.

Religious Aspects of Resistance

TUCKER CARLSON: Of those 2,000, of course, you can’t really know, but what’s your sense of the percentage of Christians amongst.

SHERRY WALKER: Well, in our organization, I know I have seven Jewish members.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

SHERRY WALKER: I have a handful.

TUCKER CARLSON: Religious very much. So the seven Jewish people are religious people?

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, very much religious, very faithful.

TUCKER CARLSON: Good for them.

SHERRY WALKER: One is actually fighting a battle to get an accommodation for wearing a very tight beard. So we have those seven or so. We have at least one or two Muslims that I know of. One of our lead plaintiffs was a Buddhist. The majority Christians.

TUCKER CARLSON: But I mean, observant, like.

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, every one of these people are observant.

TUCKER CARLSON: So all 2,000 were religious people.

SHERRY WALKER: Very well, I take that back we had a handful of people who were very observant but that had a medical issue and their doctor told them, don’t get it. And so they applied for a medical accommodation backed up with a religious. Because of their faith. But I would say 99.9% are heavily.

TUCKER CARLSON: So what you’re saying is that when you bring down a vaccine mandate, you really are getting rid of the religious people. Yeah, because, I mean, this was done at a national scale. So I think it’s fair to, you know, if the outcome is the point of the exercise. It seems like they drove religious people out of government service. That’s what it looks like to me. The military, the airline is kind of crypto, since you fly the mail, but it’s not really government. But.

SHERRY WALKER: But yes, you know, anywhere where they’re.

TUCKER CARLSON: But they’re punishing religious people.

SHERRY WALKER: Anywhere there’s a large group, you know, of employees, places. Yes, I would agree. They’re. They’re. But it’s also. Religious people also happen to believe in the Constitution. They also happen to be free thinkers.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I’ve noticed.

SHERRY WALKER: And, you know, I think there’s even more insidious things. And they were after the religious people. Sure. But they were also after anybody who would not stand, would comply. I think to them it was a test to see how they could trample people’s rights.

TUCKER CARLSON: Absolutely. No question about it. That’s my personal belief. But I do think we’ve spent too little time celebrating the people who were willing to really have their lives reordered, willing to be punished and suffer for what they believed. Those people are heroes.

SHERRY WALKER: I think I know 2000 heroes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s totally. They’re not. Yeah. So then what happens? You go back to work, then we’re.

SHERRY WALKER: We’re invited back to work eventually because of the court ruling. But then we’re told, but you can’t fly anywhere. You have to be careful.

TUCKER CARLSON: You can’t fly anywhere.

Workplace Retaliation and Vaccine Mandates

SHERRY WALKER: They wouldn’t let us. We had restricted cities because countries might require a vaccine. Well, of those restricted cities, there weren’t any countries that wouldn’t let pilots in. But it was a big battle. We had to fight through this until Canada dropped the mandate for passengers. And so there were just things that were done. The constant retaliation pieces, getting called in the office because of a Facebook avatar or just dumb things.

TUCKER CARLSON: Called in the office because of a Facebook avatar. What does that mean?

SHERRY WALKER: So Laura and I had changed our Facebook symbol.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

SHERRY WALKER: To the Star of David. It said “unvaxed” on it because we felt like we were being abused. I didn’t want to make any light of previous situations, but it was out there and some pilot who disagreed with us anonymously reported us to the corporation and we had to go to the office and do the carpet dance and explain why that wasn’t discrimination.

TUCKER CARLSON: But why would it be discrimination?

SHERRY WALKER: Because we offended the Jewish people because we co-opted their star. So first thing I did is call my seven Jewish members and say, does this offend you? They’re like, no, we stand with you. Okay, fine, but it wouldn’t.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, it’s not mocking Jews. Isn’t it standing in solidarity with anyone who’s been singled out and oppressed?

SHERRY WALKER: Exactly.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it was like about as positive an identification as you could have.

SHERRY WALKER: But it was one more reason. Four times, five times in one year I had to go sit in there and explain myself. It just goes on. I got one coming up.

TUCKER CARLSON: What is that? What’d you do wrong this time?

SHERRY WALKER: This time two years ago, I was trying to be kind to a very famous elderly person. We were going to do an engine run and I couldn’t leave them on the jetway with the engines running and doors open. And so we got the person up to the top and unfortunately then she wrote a nasty letter. So I have to go do the carpet dance and explain why you can’t sit unattended on a jetway with a door open and the engine running. And mechanic with an arm in an engine. So we’ll get through it. It’s just constant.

Pilot Reactions to Vaccine Mandates

TUCKER CARLSON: How did the other pilots who, like obedient sheep, took the needle, how did they treat you?

SHERRY WALKER: I’ve never had anyone come up and say, you guys are causing a problem. Now there’s keyboard warriors on certain social media sites, but at work, nine out of 10 have said, “I wish I could have stood with you. I’m sick, my friend is sick or something. I will never do it again, ever, ever, ever. And I’m sorry I didn’t stand with you.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Those poor people. I know a million vaccinated people. I’ve never heard anybody say, I’m glad I got the vax. Not a single one.

SHERRY WALKER: No.

TUCKER CARLSON: And I feel so sad for a lot of them I love. So I feel so sad for them. I’m sorry to make fun of them. I shouldn’t. They were the victims too.

SHERRY WALKER: They’re victims too. Some are just stronger than others.

TUCKER CARLSON: But the COVID vaccine turned out to be so dangerous. It killed so many people. It’s a fact. I mean, it’s in the VAERS program. These are not conspiracy theories. It’s like, that’s a fact that it does make you wonder, like, what would you want? I don’t want to fly in a plane with vaccinated pilots because I think it’s too dangerous. But are there numbers on this?

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: So tell me what they are.

Research on Vaccine Injuries Among Pilots

SHERRY WALKER: So I had a lot of free time there while I was off of work and I’d been working on my doctoral dissertation. And when this started to go down, I shifted gears. So my organization, Airline Employees for Health Freedom, we started getting phone calls. I know somebody that’s sick or I know this or I know that. So we just put a data collection link up.

And it got so intense that I said, you know what? I’m going to stop everything. I’m going to write my dissertation and I’m going to study the vaccine injury amongst commercial airline pilots. And so almost about seven months of data collection, 1600 plus respondents across the industry. And understand the population is about 80-20 vaxxed. My study actually came out about 50-50 because a whole bunch of my unvaccinated friends wanted to help which watered down my numbers, but it actually makes them that much more powerful because at 50-50, if I found this, what would I have found at 80-20?

And what I found is commercial airline pilots in the United States are suffering pericarditis and myocarditis at rates exceeding the CDC’s national average. And I proved it to a 98% plus or minus 4 in that regards.

TUCKER CARLSON: What are the implications for myocarditis in an airline pilot?

SHERRY WALKER: Goes back to that incapacitation thing, right? Pilots got to have a healthy heart. But what it really means for the short term, we’re losing pilots. It’s anecdotal, it’s in my dissertation, but I have the chart from American Southwest and from the union at United. The disability rates post December of 2021 shoot through the ceiling. They’re off the charts and they’re getting worse by the day.

So pilots are going on long term disability. It’s one more way to get rid of those high dollar workers. And we just, that way we have to have more young people come in. And so where it goes, I don’t know. But I found things from kidney stones to serious neurological problems, cardiac. It’s really scary and nobody wants to know about it.

And the problem is I went to the union and I said to the national president in an email and I have it in my dissertation, it’s published online. I found this, we need to address this. And he says, “Oh no, no, you know what, that’s in the past. We don’t. That might be disruptive to unity.”

Union Response and Failures

TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, what is the point of unions again? I totally forgot. Isn’t it to take care of their members?

SHERRY WALKER: I’m a former rep, I’ve seen the sausage making from the inside. We were quote “a professional organization that focuses on safety.” That’s their number one point. Secondly is collective bargaining. I paid a lot of money for them to abuse me.

TUCKER CARLSON: But if your job is to take care of your people, that’s what a union is, right? It’s we collectively bargain. We’re in this together and we’re looking out for people who have not enough power, which is the workers against management. And they’re not interested in people dying or being disabled.

SHERRY WALKER: They weren’t interested in them putting us on the street. They stepped back and said company can do what they want. What? No, it’s not in the collective bargaining agreement. That is a term and condition. That is an EEOC problem between you and the airline.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s disgusting. What’s the name of this union?

SHERRY WALKER: The Airline Pilots Association. ALPA. And ALPA is working against helping the pilot shortage by upping the age. ALPA worked against all of us in any of the airlines. I can’t say that, because actually, the ALPA people at Delta, they worked with at Bastion, and they actually came up with a pretty good system during this mandate piece, but ours washed our hands of us.

TUCKER CARLSON: Are you required to be a member of this union?

SHERRY WALKER: Unfortunately, yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: So they take your money and they do nothing for you, and they collaborate with your creepy CEO to oppress the workers there. And the unions, like, all on board with me.

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, and it even gets better. They take my money and they have a DEI committee. It’s staffed by a transgender pilot, who then sends me emails explaining what my language should be.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m trying not to use the F word. This is my Lenten challenge. But it’s almost sneaking out.

SHERRY WALKER: Oh, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: So the union sends you that. So your union exists to lecture and torment you and steal your money?

SHERRY WALKER: Let’s just say we have people in the union, in the legal department, who are not the best and brightest. You’d obviously work at somewhere other than a union. But the rumor is, I’ve been told that I’m the fifth rail. They don’t even know the saying. It’s the third rail. So, trust me, the union and I don’t get along really well, Tucker.

TUCKER CARLSON: And you were a union rep.

SHERRY WALKER: I was. I was.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it’s not like you have some ideological problem with unions.

SHERRY WALKER: As a theory, I had a desire to go in there and help people and clean up the mess.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. I mean, speak for myself, I’m totally in favor of unions. I have a friend who’s a labor leader, and I like the idea of unions. I do. I like solidarity. And someone needs to push back against power. I’m all for that. It’s just that in practice, in this specific case, but also in others, it seems like they’re collaborating against their members.

SHERRY WALKER: Unions are, in this case, at least I use the phrase – unions are like the tick on the dog, right? They suck from the dog, but they can’t kill it because that’s the way they live. So in the case of the Airline Pilots Association, they collaborate a lot with management. They get what they need, they get the dues from it, and they’ll do a little bit, but they can’t do too much because they need the company to stay profitable or they’ll be gone.

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, well, that’s. I mean, I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

SHERRY WALKER: But they shouldn’t be the disciplinary arm of the airline. In a lot of cases they are.

TUCKER CARLSON: Everyone hates the teachers unions. And I, of course, I do too. I think they’ve helped wreck education. However, at least in New York City, like they stick up for their members.

SHERRY WALKER: Sure.

TUCKER CARLSON: In a very unreasonable way. Even when their members are like child molesters, they’ll defend them.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Which is bad.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: But the idea that you stand up for the people in your charge, that leadership means laying down your life for the people beneath you. I believe in that. And there’s nothing worse than a collaborator. Wow, that’s really disgusting.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. Wash their hands of all of us. And it didn’t happen just at the Airline Pilots Association. It happened at the AFA Association of Flight Attendants. It happened with the Teamsters, I think. No, it wasn’t the teams. The dispatch union leader was the only one that fought back against the mandates. All the rest of them just rolled over.

Political Leanings Among Airline Personnel

TUCKER CARLSON: So what, I mean, are airline people political? And how does it break down politically?

SHERRY WALKER: Airline people. Okay, so we have a few of the hardcore union people, of course, that are going to lean left. Airline people are of the ilk of where they live. Houston base is very conservative, very Texas, very red. I see in the San Francisco base a much more liberal opinion. So I think they’re just people. I don’t think it’s – we’re not in the days of fighting Lorenzo. So I don’t think it’s really a political thing with the airline people. I think they’re just part of their community.

The Realities of Modern Aviation Safety

TUCKER CARLSON: But there’s something about aviation because it’s, I mean, science based, it’s engineering that every airline pilot. I’ve known a million airline pilots and they’re all, they have the same kind of logical, coolly, analytical temperament and they believe in like the facts because they have to. Or the plane crashes.

SHERRY WALKER: Bernoulli is a fact. Right, we can’t change that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. And like a thunderstorm will pull your wings off. So don’t fly into it like these are just facts. We’re not in control. We acknowledge them and we.

SHERRY WALKER: And we’re risk averse. Right. So we’re going to be conservative and take the most conservative way.

TUCKER CARLSON: So I don’t that all There still.

SHERRY WALKER: Are some liberal ones.

TUCKER CARLSON: Are there really?

SHERRY WALKER: Oh yeah. They’re usually the big union dogs, you know, the high power ones.

TUCKER CARLSON: But I can’t, I can’t get my head around someone whose job it is to obey the laws of physics. Like unflinchingly you know, it’s like that’s a fact. We have to obey that law because it’s. We can’t change it. That person believing that you can change your sex, which is the most irrational thing you could say.

SHERRY WALKER: And most of them are not faithful at all to.

TUCKER CARLSON: To what?

SHERRY WALKER: As well. I mean, they’re not faithful as well. They’re not religious people.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I am, of course not. Right, of course. The whole idea is to give a finger to God and proclaim yourself master of the universe. I can change my sex. Okay. Can you control the weather now too, like John Kerry? But no, it’s not even that. Which I do have a problem with, to be clear. It’s. That’s irrational. That’s what freaks me out. That’s irrational. So if you believe in something that irrational, I don’t want you flying my airplane. No, I mean I don’t want you.

Concerns About Pilot Reliability

SHERRY WALKER: Flying next to me in that airplane because I have to get up on a 10 hour flight and go take a break or go in the bathroom. What. How are you going to behave when I’m not here? You know, we got pilots that are asking those questions right now. They’re saying, you know, I’m not comfortable leaving the flight deck.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, come on.

SHERRY WALKER: When we’re flying with somebody of that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Nature, can you go to the company and say, I’m on a 10 hour flight. So you’re a veteran, obviously a veteran pilot. You’ve got to be one of the. Have some of the most hours of.

SHERRY WALKER: I’m in the top 10%, probably at my.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that means traditionally you’re flying the longer, better, more fun routes to the prettier capitals. Like that’s what I have noticed.

SHERRY WALKER: So.

TUCKER CARLSON: But you’re flying long flights, so you have to get up at some point.

SHERRY WALKER: Well, I’m required legally to go take a break. I mean, I have to go to bed for over eight hours. You have to take a nap. We rotate. We have three pilots and we rotate three.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, but can’t you call the company and say, hey, I’m not comfortable leaving my co-pilot unattended? Like that seems like a big thing for me.

SHERRY WALKER: It’s, you know, it’s anecdotal because I haven’t flown with one yet back except for when I was on the 737 years ago and there was a captain who by the way was a terrible pilot.

TUCKER CARLSON: A transgender captain.

SHERRY WALKER: Yes, terrible pilot. Was more focused on other things.

TUCKER CARLSON: What kind of things?

SHERRY WALKER: I want to be funny, but making sure his voice sounded right or you know, there was a lot of distraction. He was just known as not a very great pilot. And so, you know, I did a lot of flying, but that was years ago when I was really young. Former airline before the merger. So, but so I haven’t. In my world there hasn’t really been any in the 767, but a lot of dear friends in the more Jr. Airplane. 737 and Airbus were just like, I’m not comfortable. They don’t fly the long haul. So they can usually get to where they’re going.

TUCKER CARLSON: They can hold it.

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah, thank you. But yeah, they just, they don’t want to leave safe. We’re not sure. It’s like what could happen. They’ve read the same studies as I have.

TUCKER CARLSON: Damn.

SHERRY WALKER: And it’s not just here, it’s across the industry. Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: Meaning in Europe as well.

SHERRY WALKER: No, I’m meaning in domestic airlines. It’s not just my carrier, it’s pilots from a lot of different carriers concern.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s like. And what would happen if you called up airline HQ and said this is just too nuts. I think it’s a threat to safety. What would they say to you, come.

SHERRY WALKER: In the office, let’s have another carpet dance.

TUCKER CARLSON: For real?

Safety Concerns and Communication Issues

SHERRY WALKER: Yeah. Now, so, the thing is you have to observe a safety concern and you must report it as a whistleblower. Then it might get changed, but I haven’t actually officially observed it, but I can understand where we’re going. I mean it might not be as dramatic as somebody not wanting to fly with somebody, but one very real piece is you can be called in the office and get in trouble for say, misgendering somebody using the wrong pronoun.

Actually, yes, unfortunately, I work in a safety sensitive world. I have a common safety language. Right. If we’re in the middle of a massive emergency at altitude and I pick up that and I call them back and I say, hey guys, prepare the cabin. Oh, wait a minute, was I supposed to remember was a guy or a girl or what? It’s just a word I use in the heat of battle. I don’t want to have an Abbott and Costello who’s on first discussion with the person at the other end of the phone. No, I’m a he. No, she’s at door one, no, he’s at door three.

We have something to do and deal with and I don’t want to have to stop and think in my job before I react the way I’ve been trained. Oh, did I say the wrong thing? Am I going to if we survive this, have to go answer for it. And that’s a very real piece. That one is one that pilots worry about probably more than actually flying with a transit.

TUCKER CARLSON: So I think big picture, it’s very obvious that safety standards have fallen dramatically. Maybe not literally. They’re not rewriting the safety manual, but safety is.

SHERRY WALKER: We’re distracted. That’s what I would say.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s not the top concern, clearly. It’s not the top concern, clearly. So, I mean, how long before hundreds of people die?

SHERRY WALKER: I hope never again in my lifetime. Because the people at the front of the airplane, me, my partner, we’re going to do what we know how to do. And it doesn’t matter to me if I get called in because I misgendered somebody. There are still good people out there, but we’re getting to that critical mass point where we need a little time. We need a pause.

We need this new incoming FAA administrator whom I’ve read a lot about. I really like him. He looks like a very faithful person and he’s going to fit in the administration and be confirmed rather quickly. We need to get the pilot age up. The standards do not need to be lowered for the incoming. And then we’re going to need to take some time and mentor.

And I think we can get there, but the clock is ticking. So the Trump administration, I think, is on the right track to fix four years of complete dismantling of the US Aviation industry. I hope, I pray they can get there, but I think they’ve got the right people in place.

Personal Perspectives on Flying

TUCKER CARLSON: You said you’ve never been nervous flying. Have you ever been nervous as a passenger?

SHERRY WALKER: Mm, I’m sure I have. I’m more nervous when I stand on like the edge of a tall building or I’m scared of heights. Tucker? Absolutely. Are you actually refuse to go to the Grand Canyon? I won’t do it.

TUCKER CARLSON: What’s your cruising altitude in 767 long haul flight?

SHERRY WALKER: Depends. 28 to 38. Somewhere in there, you know, we climb. As we burn fuel, we get lighter, so we climb. But, you know, 36, 37, 38. What is that? Almost seven miles high in the air. And passengers think about it. You’re sitting in a chair doing eight to nine tenths the speed of sound. That’s a pretty awesome thought. That’s incredible, isn’t it, where we are? Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, I think the whole thing is absolutely wonderful. What do you think of the new planes?

SHERRY WALKER: Well, I fly the old planes. I’m a Boeing girl. My husband flies the 787 and he likes it. I mean, you know, technology is wonderful. It just goes further, faster and higher. So we’ll see. I’m more worried about the coming technology with regards to single pilot or autonomous flight. I don’t know about you. I’m not getting in an airplane without a pilot.

The Future of Aviation: Autonomous Flight

TUCKER CARLSON: Autonomous flight, it’s coming. You’re making me feel uninformed. So there are. This will solve the union problem. Just get rid of the people.

SHERRY WALKER: Get rid of the people. There you go.

TUCKER CARLSON: So there are planes planned with no pilot.

SHERRY WALKER: Well, we have them now.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I guess they’re called drones, right?

SHERRY WALKER: They’re called drones. I mean, they in Houston, we have pilots that are in the Garden Reserve. They get in their car in the morning, they drive down to Ellington. They walk into a trailer. They’re flying a drone over in Afghanistan, bombing the bad guys, and they drive home. I mean, it happens all the time. It’s not coming.

This generation, we have cars, autonomous taxi cabs in Austin, Texas. Right. They drive around and you just jump in one and it charges your credit card. First time I saw it, it was crazy. But they have it. So what’s coming is, first of all is the move to reduce one pilot.

TUCKER CARLSON: In the cockpit on a commercial airliner.

SHERRY WALKER: So the way it’ll work, most likely, they said Aviation and Space magazine had this about four or five years ago. They’ll have a control room drone operator. Me, when I retire, all these people will be sitting in a control room and you’ll take off. Remember that old v1 rotate engine failure we talked about? You’ll just push the Boeing button and I’ll. Come on, I’ll say, hey, Captain, I’ve got the airplane. You get the checklist. So a room of eight people can work the whole thing.

TUCKER CARLSON: Wouldn’t it be easier to put someone in the cockpit?

SHERRY WALKER: Wouldn’t it be. You know the old joke, we have a dog in the cockpit, Right. You know why the dog is there? To keep the pilot from touching anything, bite him if he comes. So, yeah, that’s the first step they’re going to start. It’ll start in cargo carriers and trying to push to eliminate one body and then for cost reasons, because you can only control the price of the airplanes. The price of the people or the price of fuel. Right. Fuel’s pretty set. Airplanes, you can get to better financing if you play the game. But we cost money.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s just absolutely crazy. I will pay a premium to fly in an airline with two pilots.

SHERRY WALKER: Well, but it gets better. The next generation or two it might go there, but at the same time, the drone world, and I think they call it VTOL, vertical takeoff and landing, whereby you, Tucker Carlson, can have your own VTOL and you can fly yourself to the airport and then you can get on the big airplane.

This stuff is all in the crazy works behind the scenes at the FAA. You can read about it. It’s there. They’re establishing corridors and plans, and it’ll start with pilots operating, but eventually they’re looking for an autonomous situation where you just. The Jetsons, you walk out, get in your little hovercraft, go to the airport, getting the big hovercraft. It’s coming.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. I hope I’m gone when this all happens.

SHERRY WALKER: I surely will be.

TUCKER CARLSON: Sherry, that was really. It was wonderful to get the benefit of your decades of experience and your honesty.

SHERRY WALKER: So thank you for the opportunity and I really pray for the president, Secretary Duffy, the incoming FAA administrator, that we can get ahead of this before it gets out of control.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, before people die. I think so. Thank you very much.

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