Here is the full transcript of political commentator and podcaster Tucker Carlson’s interview on This Past Weekend Podcast #628 with host Theo Von, December 10, 2025.
Brief Notes: Tucker Carlson returns to This Past Weekend for a long, loose, and surprisingly personal conversation with Theo Von about why America feels more “compromised” and unstable than at any point in his lifetime. He talks about what most disturbed him around the sudden death of Charlie Kirk, how power really works in Washington and media, and why so many people feel lied to from every direction. Tucker also shares his own daily habits for staying clear-headed, spiritually grounded, and less angry while trying to make sense of nonstop information and political chaos.
The Origins of Alp Nicotine Pouches
THEO VON: Today’s guest is a host. He’s an interviewer. He’s a provocateur if you will. We had him on previously and we had a great time. He has his own podcast called the Tucker Carlson Show. He was just ranked one of the top ten podcasts in America. We’re looking forward to spending time with him. Today’s guest is Mr. Tucker Carlson.
We want to support Alp too. So I’m excited about that.
TUCKER CARLSON: That started on the show, which is kind of weird.
THEO VON: That ALP started on the show. Oh yeah, that’s right.
TUCKER CARLSON: It was your show. You did it. It’s when they threatened me. It’s when PMI Philip Morris wrote me this letter. “You were on a well-known comedian’s podcast and you said this about our product.” I was like, f* you and started my own and it’s been really successful. So grateful.
THEO VON: So did they get upset about anything you said on the show?
TUCKER CARLSON: On your show? Yeah, because they said it was like a boner cure or whatever. It’s Viagra, which it totally is.
THEO VON: You think nicotine helps your erection?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: Oh, I don’t think it helps mine.
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, I don’t think you’re using enough.
A Candid Discussion About Performance Anxiety
THEO VON: I mean I’ve hit a vape. Like I’m just, you know, like I’m keeping a train going, you know, mid act, like keeping like an Amtrak going.
TUCKER CARLSON: While you’re actually engaged in. Right. But that’s the beauty of a pouch. You can double up during.
THEO VON: Oh, I like that.
TUCKER CARLSON: I mean that’s doctors recommend. I’m not obviously nothing to do with me.
THEO VON: I’m still like using fire, you know, it’s like if I’m sitting there just huffing on a vape, killing time. Also if you’re not getting an erection, you’re trying to kill time until you get one. That’s the toughest thing that people never talk about, about erectile dysfunction.
TUCKER CARLSON: Really?
THEO VON: Yeah, because you’re like.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s like waiting at the DMV kind of. Yeah, kind of waiting for some lady to call you. Is that. Yeah, it’s the same.
THEO VON: If it’s. Maybe it’s that girl Bonnie Blue. She’s like number 49 or whatever.
TUCKER CARLSON: Not ready.
THEO VON: That’d be crazy. Just give me a couple minutes. No, dude, the lies I would used to have to make up because I had pretty bad erectile dysfunction like in my 20s. And the lies I’d have to make up.
TUCKER CARLSON: Without getting too personal. How did you have erectile dysfunction in your 20s?
THEO VON: Dude, I moved in with a guy who.
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, mistake number one, right.
THEO VON: For sure. That didn’t help. But that’s because he had a script of wiener pills. And so I get over there. So I’d nibble off of his wiener pills. And this is when wiener pills were really first popular, when they were first out of the gate, when people like you had to get prescription.
Right now you can just do like telehealth now you can get some Indian guy. I’ll just mail you a bag of them, you know, and they have saffron on them, which is sometimes it’s kind of a lot, but you take what you can get. But dude, I would stay over with him and he would. And he didn’t notice. He would drink a lot, so he didn’t notice. Sometimes I would like cut one in half or just take one, you know, but. So I was living with like a 70 year old dude just cops part of his wiener pill script.
TUCKER CARLSON: Because you were kept man, Viagra kept you there.
THEO VON: But dude, that was crazy. But when I think back of the reality of that that was wild.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I fair. Even by LA standards that’s pretty far out. Usually you move in with a sugar daddy for like the cocaine or something. But you were there for the boner pills. But can I ask, how do you think you wound up needing them in the first place at that age?
THEO VON: Just too much mental. Too much in my head, you know. Like I would try to be getting a boner or whatever and my brain would be like, “You got a little boner bitch?” Or whatever. Like my brain did not like me, you know, so. And we had to. And we lived together and so it was like a constant battle. But then I think as I’ve gotten older and gotten more calm, it’s been easier, it’s just been more calm.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s so interesting. So you were like trying to defeat yourself?
THEO VON: Yes, I would be like. Or if I couldn’t get it started, it was just like, man, you know, so then you’re killing time. You’re like, hey, you know, it’s like, you want to watch a pro? You know, it’s like, let’s put on a movie. You know, just like trying to kill time while you’re waiting to get a boner. It’s very, you know, you’re. It’s a. That’s a tough gig. That should be an Olympic sport, I think.
TUCKER CARLSON: Like the biathlon.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s weird, but there are a few people in the world really good at it.
THEO VON: Really?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: I don’t know.
TUCKER CARLSON: Boner waiting. Biathlon is the cross culture waiting. Right. I don’t think it’s quite. It’s not actually certified yet, but. No, biathlon is the cross country skiing and then shooting.
THEO VON: Oh, yeah, I have seen that. That’s pretty fun.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s wild because these guys are just like huffing, you know. Imagine being oxygen deprived and then trying to shoot straight or do anything really.
THEO VON: Oh, look, this is a skill we’re all going to need probably in a few years if we want to survive. So I think that this is very important.
TUCKER CARLSON: Totally agree.
The Birth of a Nicotine Brand
THEO VON: But does Alp? So Alp is your brand?
TUCKER CARLSON: Alp is our brand. We started it because of your show. Because the first and only other time I’ve been here, we were in some other city.
THEO VON: We’re in Bellagio. We were in the Bellagio.
TUCKER CARLSON: Vegas. Right.
THEO VON: In Vegas. Sorry.
TUCKER CARLSON: And I had it. And you said, “What’s that?” And I made a joke about how it was a marital aid or something. Not even a funny joke. And then about a week later, I got a letter from the general counsel’s office at Philip Morris International, which owns Zyn. And they said, “How dare you make unsubstantiated medical claims about our product?”
And I was like, first of all, I’m shilling your product just to be nice because I like it. And now you’re scolding me for making a boner joke. Which, by the way, was a compliment.
THEO VON: Yeah. If somebody’s Zen and they’re suddenly. They got that dong going, who cares? You know what I’m saying?
TUCKER CARLSON: I thought it was funny. I thought it was a compliment. And. But they were so corporate and nasty with me.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: That I decided I’m going to make a competing product. And we did. And then around that time, probably about a week or two later, I asked around. I never really asked anyone about Zyn. And I found out that almost every other person using Zyn was using erectile. I literally had no idea they were using it.
THEO VON: What?
TUCKER CARLSON: They were rectally? Yeah, they use it rectally. Most Zen users use it rectally. And I didn’t know that.
THEO VON: What where at like, Cap, Like Phi Kappas or whatever?
TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, no, no, no. Just normal consumers of it. Like, in fact, in a lot of places when you buy it, you get a little tube of. I don’t know if you ever bought it, but you get a little tube of Vaseline and some surgical gloves. No, I’m serious. And I had no idea. And I was like, in a country of 350 million people, like, there should be a pouch for your mouth.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, it shouldn’t all be rectal use. And by the way, I’m not in any way judging at all. I think it’s consistent with, like, other parts of their lives. But. But whatever. I was like, this country needs an oral use only pouch.
THEO VON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: So we made one and so you guys made one. Yeah, but I didn’t know any of that. And I’m like, hapless, you know, I’m putting in my mouth, and occasionally people look at me, like on a plane or whatever I put in my mouth, and they would give me that look, like, “That’s not what you’re supposed to do with that.” But I didn’t even know. I didn’t have any reference points for it. But, you know, you learn stuff as you age. Yeah.
THEO VON: If you’re using that third jaw, I think to catch a. To catch a nicotine hit, that’s pretty wild.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, the problem is you can. You can overdo it and you forget. It’s hard to keep track of how many are there. You know what I mean? And you can just. A lot of things happen. I’ve never done it, but I have talked to people who are into it.
THEO VON: Oh, it’ll build up like a beaver dam back there. I feel like that’s crazy.
Reconnecting and Reflecting
THEO VON: Tucker, good to see you, man. Here we are. We’ve already discussed erectile dysfunction, which I admitted I had, which is definitely never going to help my dating life, but here we are.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think it makes you more. More relatable, less threatening. I bet you get a lot of calls after this, actually.
THEO VON: Well, I will say this, though. If you took an erection pill, say you went on a date or something that was going pretty well and you took part of, or you nibbled off a little piece, because do not make the mistake of taking a whole one, what happens. Dude, I couldn’t even hug somebody goodbye. I was just like, you know, like.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’re like in seventh grade again. Oh, dude.
THEO VON: Yeah, yeah. Calves were stopping. It was like, “What do you want?” You know?
TUCKER CARLSON: You know?
THEO VON: So that was. That wasn’t good, dude. Like, that was. Yeah, you take a whole one, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: People will start hanging their coats on you and stuff.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s really.
THEO VON: It can be a lot, but, yeah, you would just nibble off enough. You started to gauge how much you needed, you’d nibble.
TUCKER CARLSON: I feel like you could become dependent on it, though.
THEO VON: Oh, you definitely did. But at a certain point it, like, alleviated, like, the fear of, like, of this, of kind of. Of the. It alleviated the fear.
TUCKER CARLSON: The performance anxiety. Right.
THEO VON: It kind of like it. So then after a while, you didn’t need it all the time. So it kind of.
TUCKER CARLSON: That sounds helpful.
THEO VON: Yeah, it was kind of like training wheels in a way type of thing, you know, I’m saying.
TUCKER CARLSON: Totally. Yeah.
THEO VON: Like, you use it and then you don’t need it. But.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
An Unusual Living Arrangement
THEO VON: Dude, that was a weird time, dude. I. One time I was over there and. So the. Dude, like, we only had. We only had one bedroom, so I would just sleep on the couch. Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: You show us. Not more to the story.
THEO VON: There’s nothing more.
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay. So an older man moves you into his house and gives you boner pills. But it’s totally on the level. Like, there’s nothing weird at all.
THEO VON: My friend’s dad.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, okay. Okay, good.
THEO VON: Okay. It’s my friend’s dad and I think he, like, cheated on his wife or something.
TUCKER CARLSON: So he got kicked out. Yeah.
THEO VON: And so. And I was looking for a place to live anyway. I used to go. Like, I was learning the guitar at the time, and so he would have this lady stay over sometimes and he would have me come in there and play music to him in the dark and stuff. And I just learned how to play.
The Tears in Heaven Story
TUCKER CARLSON: Tears in Heaven just again, to stand back and, you know, with no prior knowledge of the story at all, but just to assess the facts as you’ve laid them out. You get invited to live with an older man and a girl.
THEO VON: He was athletic. He played tennis.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Who has a stash of boner pills? And then he invites you into the bedroom with him and the girl to serenade them.
THEO VON: Yes. At night, kind of.
TUCKER CARLSON: And this never got freaky at all. Like, not for one. Say you’re like, that’s totally normal.
THEO VON: Yeah, not at all. But it just. It was weird enough.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s the most LA story ever.
THEO VON: It happened in Louisiana.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, no way. I was thinking like, Kato Kaelin in the guest house.
THEO VON: This happened in downtown New Orleans, dude. And I used to borrow his car. It wouldn’t turn off. If you turned it off, you couldn’t turn it back on. So you had to leave it running all the time. And you had to put gas into it. So I’d go to, I’d use his car to go to school over there at Loyola, and I would just leave it run. I would just leave it running all day, dude.
Anyway, Tucker Carlson, good to see you, man.
TUCKER CARLSON: Great to see you.
The Success of Alp
THEO VON: Great to see you. Congrats on Alp. Is it doing well? I remember I went to y’all’s party last year and there was a lot of neat people there. Yeah, Josh Smith was there. I remember Lexi was there.
Mel Gibson was there last year. Did he come?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yep.
THEO VON: That was really nice of me. He’s a great guy.
TUCKER CARLSON: He’s a great guy. And there are a lot of people. Yeah, no, it’s actually done.
THEO VON: Jimmy John was there.
TUCKER CARLSON: Love Jimmy John. Leoto, one of my favorite. Vince Vaughn. All, you know, good guys, people who like nicotine. Nicotine. Super important. This country’s gotten far sadder and less healthy since it was discouraged and it’s coming back. And I think people are just happier.
But no, the company’s done. So I’ve never been in business. I’ve never sold anything. I’ve only talked for a living. I didn’t grow up around business. I know nothing about it. I’m terrible at math. So, yeah, it’s done really well. So well that I feel a little bit embarrassed. But we have a big factory near here, 14 manufacturing lines, and it’s cool.
THEO VON: Wow.
TUCKER CARLSON: I like it. Yeah, it’s actually been the single most amusing and purely fun thing I’ve ever done. Of course, I have no role in the business. You never allow me near a business ever. But I’m super enthusiastic. I help pick the name and the design and the flavors. I know a lot about that because I’m a lifelong nicotine user. Over 40 years. I know a lot about nicotine, but I know nothing of business. So I’m not involved in any of that. My college roommate runs it and is, you know, my best friend. So I hear about it.
But basically, yeah, it’s been wildly successful because I think people want a pouch that you can put in your mouth. You don’t have to put it in your butt. And a lot of people felt like they did. There’s just a lot of pressure to do that, and you feel it all around you. And some people are like, I’m not going to do that.
THEO VON: And I don’t want it to go to a Tiesto or a John Summit or a Levity concert or have to go to a Widespread Panic concert to get somebody to boof it into my straw or something. It’s like, how do you even get help getting it in if you need help?
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I think that’s part of it. I think for a lot of people, Zen is a group activity. Like, it happens, you know, with friends.
THEO VON: Yeah, but.
TUCKER CARLSON: And that’s fine.
THEO VON: I can’t believe that was the song I played, and that’s what they made me play.
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude, would you know, shut up.
THEO VON: That’s the only.
TUCKER CARLSON: When you were serenading the boner pill guy and his girlfriend.
THEO VON: Yeah. What do you think I would play? Only knew that. And every rose has its thorn.
TUCKER CARLSON: Come on.
THEO VON: Those are two of the beginner songs, man.
TUCKER CARLSON: Wow.
THEO VON: I was pretty good.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think it would be Brown Eyed Girl or something. Older guy.
THEO VON: Oh, definitely. Well, Brown Eyed Girl, definitely. If you’re using one of those pouches you’re talking, dude, you know?
TUCKER CARLSON: But that’s kind of a classic boomer kicked out of the house with his younger girlfriend. Play Brown Eye Girl. You know, it’s kind of.
THEO VON: Oh, yeah. I thought Brown Eyed Girl is something dealing with somebody’s butt, you know? Hey, where did we go?
Days when the.
TUCKER CARLSON: When the rains came, when the rains.
THEO VON: Came down in the hollow, playing a new so good, playing a new game.
TUCKER CARLSON: You know what I’m saying?
Top 10 Podcast and Anti-Semite Nomination
THEO VON: So, BLM homie, Tucker Carlson’s here. Dude, you just, I just saw you got a top 10 podcast, one of the top 10 podcasts in America.
TUCKER CARLSON: Do you see? Really? No, I didn’t. I didn’t. Do you see that? Really? I honestly didn’t know that. No, it’s. We have a rule in our office, which we’ve stuck with for over 30 years now, to wherever I’ve worked. No compliments. Don’t believe in that. So you don’t ever want to work with people who compliment you at all. And you know when it’s hitting and you can feel when you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing, but having people around, you’re like, oh, we’re kicking ass. You’re so great.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s the fastest way to rot your soul and just become an ahole. And having spent my life around aholes, I’m like, oh, don’t want to be that. So, no, no, there’s never any talk about that, ever.
Well, but I’m glad to know that it’s better than being in the, I’ve certainly been in the bottom many times in my life. Yeah. I mean, I had ratings that were so bad at one network I worked at that there was some questions to whether, given the margin of error, anyone was watching. Any human being was actually watching.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Nielsen couldn’t tell you. Really. With precision.
THEO VON: Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: So I’ve been there.
THEO VON: Dang. Yeah. Well, now you’re not there anymore. I mean, it is fascinating, especially to hear how quickly people have gone away from cable. Do you have cable? I don’t even know if I have it right. I mean, mostly I watch sports, and then I just work a lot.
TUCKER CARLSON: Totally. And there’s just a lot of stuff. You could spend your life texting. How many people do you text with every day? Oh, right.
THEO VON: Too much.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, exactly.
THEO VON: But, yeah, you won. You were a top 10 man, so pretty cool. And you were, you also got Anti-Semite of the Year. Or you got.
TUCKER CARLSON: Did I win?
THEO VON: No, I don’t. You also got nominated for Anti-Semite of the Year. Bryce Mitchell is campaigning. It feels like so.
TUCKER CARLSON: He is. I love Bryce. I know he was there. His son’s name, Tucker, by the way.
THEO VON: I’m proud to say his son is so cute, too.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s unbelievable.
THEO VON: Did I see his son at your party last year?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, and his wonderful wife. Yeah. The funny thing is, I’m not even an anti-Semite. And, yeah.
THEO VON: How did you.
TUCKER CARLSON: Anti-Semitism.
THEO VON: I agree.
On Being Called an Anti-Semite
TUCKER CARLSON: How did that happen every day for the last 10 years? I don’t think, I think it is immoral to judge people on qualities they can’t control that they were born with. I don’t think that people are guilty by virtue of their blood. That’s why I disagree with the Netanyahu cabinet. They believe the Palestinians are subhuman because they’re Palestinian. And I just, that’s an attitude that’s anti-Christian. I totally reject it. I’ve criticized them for that specifically.
And so I’m completely opposed to anti-Semitism. And so, and I mean it, too. And by the way, if I was an anti-Semite at this stage, I’d be like, yeah, I’m an anti-Semitic. I love Hitler. I would just say it. Why not? Probably the number one podcast if I said that. But I’m being totally sincere. I’m opposed to it.
So why do they keep calling you that? Me, that. And I know one of these guys very well in here. I said I know Bryce, but I know another person on the bottom. I know two of them. I know Anna, too. They not only are not anti-Semites, they think anti-Semitism is immoral.
So why do they call you something that you’re not and that they know you’re not? They do it to make you into what they call you. They are trying to make you a hater. And that is the key insight I’ve had over the last year. I used to think people would always call me racist, and I would do these long monologues. Actually, I’m not a racist. I would say so if I was. I kind of like black people. But it’s not, even has nothing to do with whether I like black people.
THEO VON: I don’t know, jerseys or whatever.
TUCKER CARLSON: I kind of do. But even if I didn’t, hating people on the basis of racism. Morons. I would do these long monologues, and I would stay up and write them, you know, at home and be like, I’m going to tell the truth. And everyone be like, shut up, racist. And I’d be like, what is this?
They could criticize me for all my real faults, which are super obvious, you know, I think they’re very obvious. I get mad. I overstate things. I always gain a st ton of weight every summer. I have faults that are obvious to everybody, but they never attacked me on those. They attacked me on the things that I’m not. Why? And this year I finally figured it out, and it’s like, they want to make you into a hater. Why? Two reasons. One, to control you. This is a form of control.
THEO VON: Well, because then they can label you.
Evil Feeds on Hate
TUCKER CARLSON: Sure. Then if you’re a Nazi, it’s like, you don’t need to. Firstly, you can kill Nazis, right? So it’s obviously to get you killed is part of it, but part of it is much deeper and it’s spiritual. And that is that evil feeds on hate. They want more hate.
And what’s evil? How do we know if something’s evil? Well, by its fruits. Is this someone who’s lying, angry, promoting violence, chaos, division? That’s evil. I mean, that’s literally the definition of evil. And good is its opposite. It’s unity, peace, happiness, love, order, cleanliness, or whatever, you know, the virtues are really obvious, the sins are really obvious. And so evil feeds on hate. They want more hate.
So I look at someone like Mark Levin, who was a guy I used to know. You know what? I’ve never had strong feelings about the guy one way or the other. He’s all into Israel, whatever, I don’t care. Be all into Israel. I was never against Israel. I’m still not really that against Israel, but whatever. I watch Mark Levin go down this path where he’s crazed. He’s crazed. It’s almost like he’s being attacked by bees or something. There’s no peace in that man at all. I can’t imagine what his, I’m not being mean, I’m being sincere.
That guy works tirelessly to make people hate him. Same with Rabbi Butt Plug. Same with a bunch of these people you see on the Internet where it’s like, is this guy trying to win people over? Just the opposite. He’s trying to alienate them. He’s trying to make people hate him. Why? Because that’s the nature of evil. It feeds on hate and goodness feeds on love. And you’re around, if you’re around a decent, honest person, you just feel this warmth and attraction and calm. Right? You feel this around.
THEO VON: Yeah, for sure. And I think you have to trust your own guiding light at a certain point.
TUCKER CARLSON: At every point of what is every.
Trusting Your Instincts in a World Beyond Rational Debate
THEO VON: Point good and what is not you.
TUCKER CARLSON: But you know it. I don’t even think we’re so past rational argument. I mean, I’ve proven that by every week dutifully doing the “actually, I’m against anti-Semitism. I hate anti-Semitism.” Shut up, Hitler.
Obviously we’re not at a point, sadly, in our history where rational debate makes any difference at all. They don’t care. Yeah. Charlie Kirk dedicated his life to it. They just shot him in the neck. Like they don’t. They’re not interested. They’re not winnable.
We’re at a stage where the only thing you can trust is God, the love of other people and your own God-given instincts. Like that is it. That’s the guide period.
THEO VON: Yeah. I mean, your pilot light of what you have to really lock in, your pilot light of what do you feel like is right and wrong.
TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. Don’t you think you know it too?
THEO VON: I think at this point you have to trust that more than you have to trust it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Right, exactly. But the knowledge is preexistent. Like it’s already in you. You know, like your dog doesn’t need to be told who hates him. The dog’s like, no. He barks at the people who hate him. He knows and he doesn’t lie to himself. Do you feel that?
THEO VON: Oh, I think we’ve been lying ourselves or we’ve been passive about evil showing up in our world. I think I definitely believe that. And some of the things I want to talk about, for sure. I mean, I saw this list and I’m like, well, first of all.
Ms. Rachel’s on it. That’s when they lost. I was like, what are you guys doing if Ms. Rachel has to come out? Because she was obviously anti the war in Gaza, anti the genocide, and we’ve spoken up about it. I mean, there’s no doubt in my heart and mind that it’s a genocide.
People can have other thoughts that they want, and that’s fine. If you have your thoughts, that’s great. I’m glad that you do. It just seems like that is a wrong thing. There was not a lot of question about it for me. Like, I learned about the history of the land, and then I was like this. Well, this is just wrong.
There’s no reason that these children have to be getting killed. That they’re experimenting with different weapons and different tactics on this kind of like, basically these imprisoned group over there.
And then when I saw this in Ms. Rachel, I was like, what are we doing? Like, what do you need Bert and Ernie to come out and say that it’s a genocide? Like, at what point do people not trust what they’re seeing anymore?
I think I’m kind of amazed that that’s the part that’s made me think sometimes, like, I’m in this weird blender or aquarium. It’s like, should more people speak up? Have not an. Like it almost like, why do you feel crazy for speaking up? Like, it just should feel like there’s more. But then it’s not my place to think that somebody else should feel the same way or should feel okay about sharing stuff. And it gets kind of scary, you know, it definitely gets super scary. You know.
I think because you don’t really know what’s going on. I think that’s what it is. And if they would just say, hey, America is a country that’s owned by Israel or that it’s always been just this outpost or it’s this LLC of Israel, or it’s this or of this or maybe not even of Israel. It could just be of corporate entities. I’m not really sure exactly, but if they would just tell us, then you can operate from a place of knowing what’s going on.
But for some reason, there’s this weird secretiveness about stuff. And when things are secret, it feels evil because it feels like it’s in the dark, right? And then when you see, we’re watching people dying and kids dying and it’s supposed to feel like it’s just in with the next reel and the next trend dance or whatever, it’s just. It all becomes confusing.
And so those are moments where you do have to lock in, you know, just prayer, asking God, what am I supposed to do? Just trusting the part inside of yourself that you feel like you’ve developed over time. That’s honest, I guess, or just trying to trust your heart, you know?
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know.
THEO VON: Does that make any sense even?
Understanding What’s Really Going On
TUCKER CARLSON: Not only does it makes sense, it’s so beautifully expressed. Yes, it makes perfect sense. And I think a lot of people watch. I’ll speak for myself. I’ve been brooding on this because my whole job is to try and find out what’s happening and then explain it.
And it’s just an endless series of frustrating cul-de-sacs where you’re like, why can’t we know this, that the other thing, I mean, whatever the story is. And in the last two weeks, I feel like I’ve gotten closer to understanding what’s actually going on. And of course I could be completely wrong, but I’m not.
And it’s made me so much happier because the conclusion, I’ve sort of let go of a lot of my frustration and fear because I’ve realized that we already know exactly what this is. Don’t know a lot of the details, you know, could be wrong about this or that, you know, but big picture, we know exactly what’s going on.
And I think at this point that if all the information on all these different threads, whatever it is, especially the murders, not just the recent murders, but the or attempted murders, but the, you know, the more historical ones, if all the relevant information came out tomorrow, would we be surprised? No, we wouldn’t. We know what’s up, actually, and there’s enough evidence.
But also our instincts tell us just by watching, like, what is this? And I agree with you completely. It’s not just about Israel, this country, it’s about whether or not self-government actually exists. Like, do any of these countries have a system where the people decide who their leaders are and what the country should do collectively. Not really. Or it’s more complex than that.
Yes, I think elections are to some extent real and all that, but in the end, the big decisions are made not by nations or kings or presidents or whatever we imagine they’re made by. You know, the world’s richest people. And I. No, I don’t think that’s an ethnic group. It’s not code language for the Jews.
It’s what it seems to be. It’s the people with the biggest stake in this who have the most to gain and the most to lose are never going to leave the big decisions to three zip codes in Pennsylvania. Like, come on now. Come on now. Come on, son. You know that that’s true.
And I’m not saying, by the way, I’m not claiming, you know, all elections are totally rigged or whatever. The source code belongs to Maduro. I’m not making any specific claims like that because I don’t know if they’re true or not. But I know the big picture.
If we know that Kennedy was pushing up against some forbidden things and that’s why he was killed and who killed him? Well, it’s too easy to say it was this group or that group or this group. It was all those groups acting in concert or parts of those groups acting in concert. Of course, that’s all of what this is. Right. Do you feel that?
THEO VON: I like what you said about if all the pieces came out. Would you be that surprised, like, if they laid the cards completely out?
TUCKER CARLSON: Epstein, for example, you know, the one that everyone’s right.
THEO VON: I feel like that whole thing is some sort of a. I think there’s something. There’s definitely stuff there. But then also it’s been such a kickball and a ruse for so long. It’s like both political parties had a chance to put it out or to get. None of these people are operating on our behalf. That’s what it feels like.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s kind of the truth that I’m talking about. That’s what we would learn.
The Blurring Idea of America
THEO VON: That’s what’s scary. If we had. It feels like. Well, so many of us believe and have believed and have forefathers that have spilled their blood and risked their lives and have friends who are enlisted now to protect this thing that I feel like we. This idea of America.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
THEO VON: And then that idea has gotten super blurry in the past few years, and especially at a time when I think a lot of people, there’s a lot of fears with technology in the future and not knowing where we’re going to find our sense of purpose. Right. That’s a big thing that we talk about on this show. A lot of our time is like, you know, where do you find your sense of purpose?
And people find it a lot of times in their job, through their family, in their country, through their religion, through their faith. So, you know, some of those start to go away, and some of those even look blurrier for the future. Almost like it’s like Marty McFly when he looks at that picture and it looks like he doesn’t even exist, you know?
And so it starts to make you think, if more of our purpose disappears and our traditions are challenged by media over the years, that they’re not. That they’re wrong or they’re racist or they’re this or they’re that, then you kind of end up with just. I don’t know, it makes you feel like, well, what do I end up even. What even is the value of me at a certain point?
TUCKER CARLSON: I have an answer. I have the answer, okay?
THEO VON: And I don’t also want to sound too dour. Like, I’m also looking at it from that perspective.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’re speaking for millions of people when you say this. Everyone can feel. I think people feel exactly what you’re saying.
THEO VON: And I still also feel a lot of moments of hope, of okay, so I focus on my family, I focus on my friends. I focus on doing something nice for someone. I focus on somebody else other than myself. You know, I do those things that do give you feelings of meaning and purpose. Right. So anyway, I’m not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but go on.
The Definition of Meaning and Purpose
TUCKER CARLSON: I think just the opposite. And by the way, I just want to amplify what you just said, because that is the answer. And those aren’t just feelings of meaning and purpose. That’s the definition of meaning and purpose is to love the people around you. Not people you’ve never met. Not abstract concepts. Communism, fascism, Zionism, whatever your ideology is.
No, it’s people. That’s what it means. To live a meaningful life is to serve other people. And by other people, I mean people who are physically present, who are connected to you in organic ways, like your relatives, your friends, your coworkers, your roommates, the people God puts in your path. Those are the people you love your waitress. Like, that’s what it really means to love people.
So that’s, number one, always love the people around you. And whenever I run into people like, I just want to save the world or I want to come up with a new system to make everyone happy forever. And we’re going to call it whatever. We’re calling it ketamine or ketamine.
THEO VON: Ketamine.
TUCKER CARLSON: Ketamine. Yeah.
THEO VON: And that’s bailing out there. There’s people falling asleep at the car wash. They just had a guy. He fell asleep in there.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. Well, those of us who’ve already been down the drug path are a little skeptical of being saved by drugs.
THEO VON: Oh, for sure. But it’s also dangerous. Some of those brushes are sharp in there. I f*ing fell asleep in that car wash. He was in for two cycles. Yeah. They had a sedan that went through, and finally someone in the backseat saw him on the side. That dude was in there getting polished up.
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, he was a ketamine catcher.
THEO VON: Yeah, he was ketamine up. He was all k’d out. He was in a K hole or something.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s it.
Is America Compromised?
THEO VON: Do you believe that our country is compromised?
TUCKER CARLSON: Do I believe it’s compromised? Yeah. Yeah, I do.
THEO VON: Do you believe that it’s reversible?
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, I believe so. I mean, again, I’m so old. I’m 56. So, like, I just grew up believing in everything, you know?
THEO VON: You’re younger than Leanne Morgan.
TUCKER CARLSON: We just had her in here, really.
THEO VON: Have you ever listened to her?
TUCKER CARLSON: No.
THEO VON: Oh, my God. Does she seem old? No, she’s great, dude. Both you guys look great.
TUCKER CARLSON: Really. She’s older than I am.
THEO VON: Yeah, she told me she was. Unless she was lying.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t believe her. There’s that new thing a lot of women do that they pretend to be a lot older. That’s like, the true Jedi move for a woman to be like, “Actually, I’m 61.” Like, a conventional woman always be like, “Actually, I’m 29.” But the really smart ones will be like, “I’m almost 70.”
THEO VON: Yes. That’s how they do it, I think.
TUCKER CARLSON: Right.
THEO VON: She’s a wonderful, beautiful comedian, and she’s hilarious. But anyway, she was a senior, but she’s 56 years old.
TUCKER CARLSON: I bet she uses nicotine.
THEO VON: Great.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t.
THEO VON: I bet she does. She did smoke, she said, in college.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. See? And look what it did for her.
THEO VON: And she wears tight bras because she says it keeps her awake.
THEO VON: So I love her, but. Well, yeah. Do you think it’s reversed? Like, and I guess that’s a big question. And also going back to what you said a little bit ago, like you said, but then I look at the history of time, and it’s like people have always been under the thumb of some type of rule, haven’t they?
And so for us to be like, I mean, it’s weird. It’s like, part of you. It’s like you’re supposed, don’t be a baby about it. You know, like, you’re just being like, there’s some sort of oppression. And even as people that can feed themselves, we’re not as oppressed as so many other people or people that if they turn on the light, they’re afraid it’s going to activate a bomb in the corner of their room.
Growing Up in La Jolla
TUCKER CARLSON: I had dinner with a guy who works for us last night, literally last night. And I said, “Where are you? Where were you born?” He goes, “I was born in Eritrea, but I grew up in a Sudanese refugee camp. I came to the United States.”
He’s an amazing guy and a wonderful, wonderful guy. But I was like, gosh, you know, I’m really, I’m from La Jolla, right? Stop whining. This is my internal dialogue. Stop whining. Stop whining. I had to fly Southwest yesterday. Oh, no one suffered more than me.
THEO VON: Yeah. La Jolla. But La Jolla is for sure the lap of luxury of America.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah. And almost every single childhood friend of mine was totally destroyed.
THEO VON: Really?
TUCKER CARLSON: Not all, but most. Oh, for sure.
THEO VON: Just by the drugs. Wow.
TUCKER CARLSON: Drugs.
THEO VON: Good drugs, too.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, the best. They didn’t put, they did not put baby laxative in our cocaine growing up. No, no, no. That was a ghetto thing. Yeah, yeah. No, no. We had, it was almost blue.
THEO VON: We had to wear diapers that, it had so much baby laxative. It came with diapers. It came with f*ing Huggies, bro. That shit.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, I grew up in a, but anyway, the point is, right.
THEO VON: The point is, though, that we’ve, there’s always been some sort of, like, there’s always been a rule. There’s always been something like that. I think that.
Survival of the Most Flexible
TUCKER CARLSON: But the older you are, the sadder it is to see your illusion shattered and the harder it is to pivot. So if you talk to people who are like, 23, and you’re like, “I think the moon landing’s fake,” they’re like, “Yeah, gramps, it was always fake. Like, what are you talking about?”
THEO VON: Who the f* are they? Look at the video one time.
TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. So that’s kind of crazy. Someone, a friend of mine, who’s unfortunately gone insane, but was a genius called James Carville, once said to me, James.
THEO VON: James Carville from the Democratic Party’s from Louisiana.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, he lives in New Orleans. Oh, yeah. No, I know him well, and he’s gone crazy and whatever, but he really was in his prime, like a genius and someone I listened to very carefully. And he once said to me, I’m going to forget we’re in a restaurant in some foreign country. And he goes, “You know, people misunderstand the theory of evolution.” I was like, I can’t even do his accent. But he’d be like, “Survival of the fittest. That’s bullshit. That’s not what he was saying.”
And I said, “Well, what was he saying?” He says, “It’s survival of the most flexible. It’s adaptability.” And he had this whole incredible rap about strength is not actually the quality that helps you persevere in the face of change. It’s flexibility, the ability to pivot with changes that you can’t control.
THEO VON: It’s not the mass, it’s the sail.
TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. And in fact, strength can be a feature of rigidity, can be a feature of strength. Like your window pane is strong as hell. It’ll last 200 years. But if you tap it, it’ll shatter. No, you need to be able to move with the moment that you live in.
And so I feel like young people are in a pretty good spot. But, yes, for older people, it’s hard to. It’s very upsetting. I’m sure you feel it. You’re much younger than I, but you still feel like, oh, my gosh. I thought this was real, and it’s not. And it’s, like, heartbreaking. It’s crushing.
THEO VON: I see it a lot in, like, just my, probably my mother and things like that, see their disappointment, kind of just uncertainty about what’s going on.
TUCKER CARLSON: And they love the country so much. It’s real. It’s sincere love, too.
The Beautiful Idea of America
THEO VON: That’s the thing. I mean, it’s like, it’s something that’s beautiful that you felt like was a certain way, and now maybe some ethnicities and cultures didn’t feel like it was that way. And so sometimes I can understand that there’s different points of view there, but I still believe that the idea of America and what it’s been and that its goals and that the humans that want it to be that are, that it’s altruistic, you know, 100%.
But that you start to realize, oh, that these powers above us, they’re, they have something different going on. And that they, you would think that they would guess. They just won’t tell us, you know? And so I think that’s where some of my fear is.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s just like, well, evil thrives in darkness. There’s no doubt about that.
The Meaning of Citizenship in Modern America
THEO VON: It’s like, what does it mean to be part of something moving forward? What does that thing even look like? If I’m a citizen here now, what is in five years? What am I a citizen of? Am I a citizen of a country that does genocides? You know, who am I?
I think I was watching some of the Gaza stuff, and I kept thinking, well, surely America will come in at some point and help and stop this, right? That was my thought, especially since we’re not.
TUCKER CARLSON: When you say genocide, you’re not guessing. It’s not like some propaganda term. It’s the definition. And we know that not just from the video of its victims, but from the testimony of the people perpetrating it.
Members of the current government, hot cabinet secretaries in the current Israeli government are on tape, including this week, saying, we kill them because of how they were born. Is that true? Oh, my. Yeah.
THEO VON: What’s an example?
TUCKER CARLSON: Smotrich, Ben Gvir. Oh, many. Look, we need to get them out. Let me see. These are people who are born there.
THEO VON: I just want to see if that’s…
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, it’s insane. It is. Because, look, people, you know, you often hear apologists for what’s happening there, for the atrocities, say, well, look, it’s war. People die. Okay?
One of the reasons I’m not that enthusiastic about war. Because innocents die. We always have to oppose the murder of innocents. Or else we’re not civilized. What is civilization? We’re on the good side. We’re civilized. They’re savages. There are a lot of savages in this world. I know some.
And what separates the savage from the civilized person is the civilized person will never accept the murder of innocents. You didn’t do anything wrong. We can’t kill you. It’s that simple.
THEO VON: But just, I don’t like if it’s unfair, but…
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s the definition of unfair. You didn’t do anything. A child didn’t do anything.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Or an unarmed woman did not deserve to be murdered.
THEO VON: And who is this?
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s Smotrich. That’s the finance minister of Israel.
THEO VON: “The truth is, until the last hostage returns, we shouldn’t even give water to the Gaza strip. For a year and a half, we’ve been beating the hell out of Hamas. We’re breaking Gaza apart, leaving it as a pile of rubble with total unprecedented destruction in the world. And the world still hasn’t stopped us. The aim is to achieve the one and only required outcome, the conquest of Gaza, the annihilation of Hamas, and the return of all the hostages. In one word, victory.”
So that’s their view on it right there.
The Moral Compass of America
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, he’s saying we’re killing people and leveling the country in order to move the population out. So how is that different from saying, there’s certain people in my capital city I don’t want here? I’m going to put them on trains and move them east. There’s no difference.
People are being killed and expelled from the place where they were born because of their bloodline. That in the world that I grew up in, which is the United States of America, the main lesson, the lesson of World War II, the reason we fought against fascism, was we reject that.
THEO VON: Yeah, that’s a thing.
TUCKER CARLSON: We do not kill people or expel them or put them on trains or put them in internment camps or move them to quote third countries, as Smotrich just said. Because of how they were born. Exactly. Because of their bloodline.
Because we don’t accept that. Because we’re Christians. We think that every person was created as an individual and judged as an individual, period. And this, to me, we don’t believe in this sh*t. That’s the enemy of civilization right there.
The Israelis, to be clear, are not the only people who think this way. Plenty of people think this way. But we are better than all of them. Because we don’t think this way.
And all of a sudden, you’ve got people in the United States, current United States government. You’ve got people in our media class. They’re all defending this because they agree with it. And then you see people jumping up and being like, Muslims shouldn’t have jobs in the United States. And it’s like, or in the US Government, it’s like, how is that better than saying Jews shouldn’t have jobs or Christians or Buddhists?
It’s all the same. That kind of thinking is genocidal. It leads to the genocide we’re watching right now in Gaza and to many other genocides. For the fifth time, it’s not just Israel. It does this.
THEO VON: Okay.
TUCKER CARLSON: But this is what we’re fighting against. This is why we’re better. Why are we better? Because we have more and better shopping or because we have, you know, Mount Shasta and Key West?
THEO VON: No, because we have some moral compass.
TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.
THEO VON: And we’re able to also take care of ourselves at the same time, I think.
TUCKER CARLSON: But our moral compass is what it’s based on. What’s the north? What’s north on our moral compass? We don’t kill innocents. And yes, we have, and we regret it and we grieve over it because it’s wrong. That’s our moral compass right there.
If you didn’t do anything wrong, we don’t get to kill you or expel you from your home because you’re innocent. Because we believe in justice, also called fairness. That’s the whole f*ing point of this country.
And so when I see people arguing against that or calling me a Nazi, when they’re literally wholesale adopting the Nazi mindset. But then I think, you know what? I’m not mad. This is the state of play in life. It’s always been this way. And my job is what? To love the people around me and to tell the truth, no matter what. And I think that’s freeing.
THEO VON: Yeah. Well, I think I do think once you say, yeah, if I get to a point where I can just share what I think or what I feel, whether I’m right or wrong.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
THEO VON: If I can speak up for my feelings. But then also, if you look at our history, we kind of, America was, did that to other people.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
THEO VON: When it started.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
THEO VON: And you would think that we learned that it was wrong and that’s where we are now.
Learning From History
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, we’ve acknowledged that it’s wrong, I think. I mean, look, there’s a, you can acknowledge something is wrong without flagellating to the point where you’re incapable of…
THEO VON: Going forward, which is like, you can’t do it to the point where you’re incapable of going forward. Like, oh, well, we also, this mistake was made not by us. This mistake was made by people in the past or at that time who believed that colonialism was fine and that was a different. People were playing by a different set of rules.
TUCKER CARLSON: But the whole point of America is that we have standards of decency. Fairness. I love that you use that word because that is the core of it. It’s fairness. Justice is overused. Fairness is underused. It’s just a child knows what’s fair.
If his brother’s getting three Oreos and he’s getting one, that’s just unfair. He doesn’t have a degree in economics. He just feels it. He knows it. The sense of fairness is innate. Dogs have it because it’s part of the natural fabric. It’s organic.
And we are a fair country. And the rich man gets the same treatment and the justice system as the poor man. It doesn’t matter where you’re from. You’re both citizens and you’re both equal because you’re both created by God. That’s our whole system in one sentence.
And that is being eroded because the people who run our system agree with Smotrich and every other third world dictator. These people are damned by their birth, whatever they are. That’s what affirmative action is. It’s like, no, I don’t like the way your parents looked. You don’t get the job. What?
That’s what we hated about the Nazis. What we hated about segregation, which I want to say was evil. Segregation was evil. Why? Because it punished some people and rewarded others on the basis of things they couldn’t control, their skin color.
THEO VON: Yeah. And we’d had mixed babies a lot sooner too, which are pretty cute, a lot of them.
The Epstein Case and Fairness
TUCKER CARLSON: There are all kinds of other effects, but the fairness is what we need to preserve. Why is Epstein infuriating? Because it’s unfair. That’s why. Not because he molested kids or his buddies molested kids. It’s because the president of Harvard was involved in it. Alan Dershowitz. All these famous people. Prince, retard, whatever. The guy in Great Britain, that kind of retarded looking Prince. The most guy is Bill Gates.
All the most powerful people in the world got away with it. And there’s tons of child molestation in America, but there’s the expectation that they’ll be punished for doing it. These people we know in our hearts will never be punished because they’re rich. But we don’t know that’s unfair.
THEO VON: We don’t know for sure that they molested children, though.
TUCKER CARLSON: We don’t. We don’t know for sure. But we know that there’s never been a real inquiry into it because the people around it were powerful and rich. That we can say for sure. And that’s still happening.
THEO VON: Okay, well, that I’ll say is that, yeah, there’s obvious that there’s not a, it feels like there’s a unfair investigation that’s, or a lack of investigation, or it’s just this lie that keeps getting remodeled. It’s this clay of a lie that keeps getting remodeled and put into the museum in front of us all the time.
TUCKER CARLSON: But go to all your neighbors on…
THEO VON: The street and ask them, oh, everybody thinks something happened.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, but ask them, if your name popped up as a visitor to Pedo Island 11 times, do you think you would be protected in the way that all these other people have been protected? Of course not. You have no money in power. You’d be…
THEO VON: Oh, fast pass. I think if anybody had one guy’s unbelievable.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know.
THEO VON: But I don’t know anything that’s just allegedly so. I have to pee really fast.
TUCKER CARLSON: Good. I’m going to go, too.
THEO VON: You are?
TUCKER CARLSON: Can we go together? Like women?
THEO VON: No.
TUCKER CARLSON: No.
THEO VON: Good.
TUCKER CARLSON: I like your attitude. Nope.
The Anti-Semite List
THEO VON: Anyway, we just took a pee break, guys. We’re back. Why do you think that you made the anti-Semite list?
TUCKER CARLSON: I think because I’m not an anti-Semite.
THEO VON: Right. And I get what you’re saying.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s like, if they mean I’m literally not an anti-Semite, and I reject anti-Semitism as totally immoral and anti-Christian, so I’m not only, not by temperament, an anti-Semite, you know, million Jewish people I love. I also reject it as a way of thinking.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: And so why would they call me that? And it’s sincere again, for the fifth time. If I was, I would just say so. And I’m not. So why do they call me that?
Well, because I think they think I’m effective because I’m not a hater. Right. So they have to take out the guy who actually might change people’s minds. But I think it’s deeper than that.
I think there’s a spiritual dimension where they want me to become an anti-Semite and a hater both, so they can control and dismiss me. Oh, he’s a Nazi. He’s David Duke or whatever, he’s crazy. But also because some of the people pushing this are evil.
And by evil, I mean specifically, they are committed to lying and violence. Those are the hallmarks of evil. Lying and violence and chaos and division.
THEO VON: So they’re not going to play by any other rules.
TUCKER CARLSON: This is not, so we’re not in a, we’re not where we used to be or we used to pretend we were.
THEO VON: We all thought we were playing by the same rules.
The Nature of Evil and Compromise
Right. And the rules were, if you have a better argument than I have, then you win, and may the best argument win. We’re so far beyond that. And I think the murder of Charlie Kirk was the moment when we could just admit it to ourselves as a guy whose whole life revolved around the proposition, let’s debate. And they didn’t want to debate. Whoever they is, they murdered him.
And to be specific, who killed Charlie Kirk? Well, I don’t know is the short answer. But when we do find out, if we ever do doubt we will, but if we do, I think again, we’ll not be surprised. It’s just all tentacles from the same octopus, and the octopus is evil. It’s not an ethnic group. It’s not a country. It’s evil. This is what evil is.
What is evil? Evil is a commitment to deception and violence. But period. That’s what it is. So it’s too easy, like, oh, it’s Netanyahu or Smochrich or whatever. No, it’s evil. It’s existed from the beginning of time. It will exist until the end of time. And it has been the thing against which people have fought through all of history. It’s evil. It manifests itself in a million different ways, but its hallmarks are always dishonesty and violence.
THEO VON: Yeah, it feels like we’ve been a bit afraid to stand up against evil. Does that make sense to you?
TUCKER CARLSON: Of course it does.
THEO VON: John Rich was just talking about it on your podcast the other day, and I thought that that was a really neat episode. I learned a lot about John Rich, and his clarity of thought, I thought was really neat.
TUCKER CARLSON: We were on a hunting trip and pheasant hunting trip two weeks ago when we did that. He can shoot, too, which is nice. He was bringing him down.
THEO VON: We had a lot of hits.
TUCKER CARLSON: I know, but yeah, we shouldn’t be afraid of it, and we shouldn’t be. So my struggle is against being shocked. Every time I learn something, I’m like, holy s*. I can’t believe I’m so I can’t believe it. This or that institution’s corrupt or this or that person is lying, and it’s like, I’m acting like a child. Why would I be shocked? That’s what this is. What did you think it was? Dude, we live in a fallen world filled with dishonesty and violence. My job, all of our jobs are to fight against those things.
The Fight Between Good and Evil
THEO VON: Yeah, people always want to be in a war. People always like, man, I wish I had something that was a challenge in the world. It’s like we are in a fight of good and evil. And it’s not to say that any of us are perfect or that we don’t all have mistakes or things that we wish we had done or not done, but overall, it does feel like this is a video game of good versus evil. And you have to start to see that you’re a player in it. One thing that…
TUCKER CARLSON: This is why you’re so effective. This is why at some point people may try to make you be quiet, is because you approach all of this with humility, which is one of the hallmarks of good, in my opinion. Almost every sentence you begin on this topic begins with, “I’m no one to judge,” and “I’m not.” That is the posture. Humility is the posture.
And one thing you notice about evil is its certainty, is its judgmental, condemnatory quality. Mark Levin, you’re evil. You’re fascist, anti-Semite, Nazi, Islamist, whatever. Its mirror image is what you just showed, which is, we’re all kind of screwed up, but we’re trying to get to the truth. That is the approach. That’s the posture. That’s the way to tell the truth.
THEO VON: Well, I think that’s what most people are doing. That’s what most people are trying.
TUCKER CARLSON: I feel like truly honest, I’ve been wrong about so much. Am I really to stand up and be like, I am positive. This is like, no, I’m doing the best I can. That’s the only honest way to approach it.
THEO VON: When, especially as a country, when you’re paying in the taxes you’re and you’re showing up to vote and you’re trying to help your neighbor, and you’re trying to follow the rules and do the best that you can.
You’re giving into something as a group that you’re giving into something like this is how we believe that we should behave and that it best suits us moving forward. And then when it’s really started to just feel, and I think it’s kind of obvious at this point that the higher ups are not working for us anymore. They’re not working with us. And that’s what I think has become the most evident in the past year especially, is that people are like, oh, no matter who we elect, on which side, whatever it is, it’s all this sort of shell game, and we’re finally starting to see some of it. And I thought it was interesting that…
How Politicians Get Compromised
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, not working for us is the most benign description. Not working for you. That’s just indifference. That’s abandonment. That’s when your parents go on vacation and don’t come home. What’s happening to us is having a creepy stepfather. I actually think there’s malicious intent here.
THEO VON: But how could so many politicians and stuff get compromised? That’s what I don’t understand. Wouldn’t there be more people that stood up and said, hey, this isn’t right? That’s what I find hard to believe.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, because they all made the deal. And all of them make the deal. And the deal is not always explicit. And the deal, everyone thinks it’s about sexual blackmail, which is totally real. All the porn sites are visible. Go to a porn site, people know exactly what you’re looking at. There’s a video of you looking at it. Just a fact. And okay, so there’s that.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: And there are a lot of them are secretly gay. Of course we know that. But I don’t think, and have drinking problems or cheating their wives or whatever.
THEO VON: Is that enough to keep people…
TUCKER CARLSON: No, I think it’s actually deeper than that. It’s not enough. It’s not enough. The obvious ones, like, why is Lindsey Graham for this or that war? It’s like, okay, yeah, I got it.
THEO VON: But you’re trying to slurp on little fellas or whatever. Or you’re jacking off to bud activity or whatever. Does that, you know…
TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, definitely fun on little fellas.
THEO VON: I mean, pedophile and is bad. It is not good at all. It’s horrible. Right. But if you’re just looking at…
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m just like, that’s not the answer, though. It’s not. That’s not. Most of them are not being sexually blackmailed.
THEO VON: Some are.
TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I think the Epstein thing was probably that to some extent. But no, it’s much deeper and more recognizable and part of our daily life than that. It’s much more insidious than that because it’s less dramatic than that.
It’s the deal that we all make with ourselves to get what we want. I want to be powerful. I want to get reelected. I want to get rich. I want to bang that girl. And you make these compromises with yourself in which you consciously decide to be dishonest. You decide, in some cases, violent. That is true. Or whatever.
THEO VON: How do you get so many people, though? Because when you look at some of the system itself…
The Deal with the Devil
TUCKER CARLSON: Is that you get, in order to get elected, I have to do the following things. I have to basically subvert democracy by carrying water for a tiny group of people against the interests of my actual voters. That itself is a sin. It’s a crime. But it’s so ubiquitous, you don’t even notice it.
It’s deals like that. I’m going to take money from a foreign lobby that somehow isn’t registered as a foreign lobby or whatever. I’ll support this thing that I think is probably pretty wrong, but I’m going to do it. Because I have to. It’s those kind of moral compromises that wind up making people slaves. And that’s what they are. They’re slaves. We have hundreds of slaves, otherwise known as members of Congress. And what are they? Slaves to? Evil. Because they’ve made these compromises in order to get what they think is the prize, which is reelection.
THEO VON: It’s a crazy movie.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s real, though, man.
THEO VON: I know that’s a crazy…
TUCKER CARLSON: But it’s all of us. All of us have made that deal. That’s why it’s so important to reframe it in your head. It’s not just some freak on Pedo island banging a child. And then, oh, they have him by the balls because they have videotape of him. No, no, it’s all of us. If I just do this thing, it’s worth it, man. It’s for the greater good. It’s for my family. It’s for, I need…
You hear this every election season, right? I need a bona. I don’t want to vote for the s*head, but we need to control the Congress. What is that? You’re making a deal with the devil, dude. With the devil. That’s what that is. Bat on before me and all of this will be yours. That’s the deal.
Don’t make that deal because you lose yourself, you lose your freedom. All of a sudden you’re a slave. And you see these politicians, they’re like, oh, no, it’s, it’s not. No, there are good reasons for doing this. No, really, what is that? It’s not a free man. That’s an enslaved man.
And you know the people who are free because they exude this kind of peace and joy, and they’re like, no, I don’t care. I’ll say whatever I think is true. You can shoot me. Go ahead and shoot me. It’s not going to change anything because you’re lying. And I’m not. It’s freedom versus slavery. And we put ourselves in slavery with that deal.
The Liberation of Truth
THEO VON: Well, the pain of holding on to lies and stuff like that.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
THEO VON: And shame and stuff like that. It’s really…
TUCKER CARLSON: But haven’t we all lived that? You’ve lived that, right?
THEO VON: For sure.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. Well, that’s why getting sober is so liberating. Not just because you’re not on drugs or alcohol, which is a self liberating, but because you admit what you did and then you’re like, oh, man, I admitted I was a cokehead or I drank vodka in the morning. In my case, it’s pretty embarrassing, but once you admit it, it’s…
THEO VON: Like I was putting Alps in my butt.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, no, it’s zyn. Sorry. ALP is oral use only. Alps for the front, it’s the pouch for your mouth.
THEO VON: Oh, I like that. Yeah, yeah. Out for the front. They should say for the front on them they should have a special.
TUCKER CARLSON: We may do that. We’re going to get that hat because we already have for oral use only, the pouch for the mouth. But this goes in the front. But you’re going to have some urethral injuries if we’re not more specific.
THEO VON: Dude, I used to date a girl and her cooter was way more in the front than it was in the lower part, actually. Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: How did that work?
THEO VON: Mechanically it worked. It just…
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know.
THEO VON: I don’t know all the logistics or whatever.
TUCKER CARLSON: Sure. It wasn’t post op. Was this natural?
THEO VON: No, this was natural, dude. And I worked in urban planning, so I know how, you know what I’m saying? I know how things work a little bit, but yeah, she had…
TUCKER CARLSON: You understand bridges and tunnels. Yeah, yeah.
THEO VON: Just her cooter was up front kind of. But anyway, I don’t know where we’re talking about that.
Do you think…
We’ve all had money goals. I remember I wanted to buy me a…
Leadership and Honesty in Politics
THEO VON: Like, do you think that if we elected different officials that things would be different? Or do you think that no matter who gets in there that the compromising happens these days?
TUCKER CARLSON: No, I think leadership is the most important thing.
THEO VON: Why doesn’t somebody come up with an app that tells us who’s running? Right. Because a lot of people don’t have time to focus on exactly who’s running. Right? They don’t have as much time. They’re busy. Both parents are working. People are running around. They’re picking their kids up. They got to get their kid to T-ball. They’ve got to make sure their kids get fed, and they have to make sure that one of the parents is there to read them a bedtime story while the other parent goes and works all night as a security guard somewhere just to make ends meet. Right.
So why don’t they have an app that says, okay, these are the candidates. This one doesn’t accept any money from any of these places. It feels like it would be very easy and obvious to create an app like that that would tell you exactly who to vote for.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s right. The problem is we’re getting to a point of knowledge about things. People sort of are figuring out what’s going on that in order to be honest now, you have to be truly honest. I think people are so wary of being lied to that if you sense that someone’s got a, I’ll be all honest about this stuff, but not about that thing. That’s not enough. So true honesty, also called integrity, is what is needed.
THEO VON: It’s hard.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you get killed. The system itself, and this is not the result of any foreign power or any, this is just the nature of systems will work to expel you the same way your body works to expel bacteria or cancer. It’s like the organism doesn’t want this. And you see it. I’ve known very few honest members of Congress. I’ve known a couple, however, one of them just left Congress and the other is being primaried, MTG.
THEO VON: You’re talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene.
TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. And Thomas Massie from Kentucky. And by the way, I don’t agree with everything. It’s not even about that.
THEO VON: What does being primaried mean? I’m sorry to interrupt you.
The Price of Sincerity
TUCKER CARLSON: It means that your own party says we want you out, and so we’re going to run someone from your party against you in the primary. Your party has turned on you, and it’s like, what is that about? And it’s about not simply the fact that he disagrees with them on foreign policy, which is really the whole project really is just foreign policy. Nothing to do with your tax rates or your debt load.
THEO VON: Yeah, he’s like anti-AIPAC. He’s big against those types of things.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. And he’s not for pointless wars. So that’s a deal killer. But it’s not just that. So, yeah, the Israeli lobby’s mad at him. Got it. But it’s deeper. He won’t be controlled. And if he doesn’t think something, he’s not going to say it, period. He may be wrong, but he’s sincere.
Sincerity is the kryptonite. That’s what makes the evil person die is sincerity. No, I really mean it. I’m not kidding. I can’t be bought. I’m totally sincere. If they smell sincerity on you, well, that’s why they’re calling me the most dangerous anti-Semite since Adolf Hitler himself. It’s like, what? Because I’m not a genius. I’m not powerful at all. I’m a f*ing podcaster. I don’t have actually any power. But I’m not kidding at all. I’m completely sincere. I may be wrong. I often have been. But I’m not joking.
Yeah, that itself. So they’re hassling me. Imagine if I was a member of Congress or a presidential candidate or anybody who has sincerity is marked immediately because that person’s a threat to everybody currently benefiting from the system. And you saw that with Marjorie.
THEO VON: Yeah. What do you think happened there? Because a lot of people say that allegedly she made a lot of money off of stock returns and stuff like that.
TUCKER CARLSON: That just cracks me up. That’s like saying, I was just talking to Tim Dillon the other day. He’s a friend of mine. Awesome guy, but he’s the best. He is the best. But everyone, they were all claiming he’s taking money from Qatar.
THEO VON: Yeah, me too. They say that.
TUCKER CARLSON: They say that about you?
THEO VON: Yeah, I went there once. I had a blast, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m going tomorrow. I’m buying a house in Qatar. Why am I doing that? Because f* you. Not only have I never taken a dollar from Qatar or anybody, I have no investors. Zero. I have no debt. I don’t owe anybody anything, period, and never will. I’ve never taken money from them. I’m going to invest money in Qatar. I’m going to do just the opposite, just to give the finger. Plus, it’s a great country, dude.
THEO VON: I had a great time when I was there. They treated us super nice. I know that they have different rules and stuff for their people and that we may disagree with some of them and stuff like that. But those aren’t my rules. I don’t have to. If I go visit, I have to live by their rules. But if I’m from our country, then I can live by…
TUCKER CARLSON: I completely agree. But they accuse you of what they are. And what they are is corrupt. So Marjorie, did she make a ton of money trading on stocks with insider information? I bet my house she didn’t. I mean, this is somebody I know well.
THEO VON: And you do know her well.
Corruption and Control
TUCKER CARLSON: I know her well. And you can agree or disagree with her, of course, but you can’t say she’s in it for the money. Really. I don’t think so. I don’t think she’s interested in money. I think she’s interested in the country. And again, we can debate whether she’s on the right track or the wrong track or you think her ideas are smart or stupid, but her sincerity is the most obvious thing about her, and it’s also the most threatening thing about her.
In fact, it’s the only thing that they hate is sincerity, because sincerity is purity, and it can’t be bought. And so, of course, they accuse the first thing. They’re like, oh, you must be getting paid by somebody. No, I’m not. And that’s why you hate me.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: If I was as corrupt as Dan Crenshaw, you really think they would hassle me?
THEO VON: Dan Crenshaw, the guy from Texas?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: Is he corrupt?
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, on the most deep, on a moral level, he’s completely corrupt. I mean, he takes orders from his donors to do things that have nothing to do with the welfare of his voters. So by definition, he’s corrupt. Yes. And also crazy and drunk and all the rest. Sad. Sad. I’m not, actually.
THEO VON: Oh. I think I met him at a nightclub one time.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, well, I’m sure you did, but I shouldn’t be. I feel sorry for Dan Crenshaw being serious. But anyway, the point is, the more corrupt you are, the more they like you, because they can control you. What they don’t want is someone who might do something unexpected who they can’t control. That’s what they fear. Obviously. It’s what everybody fears.
Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Resignation
THEO VON: But do you think that as well? So for Marjorie, what do you think happened in that meeting? Because she had a meeting, I guess, with Trump.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know. I don’t know what happened between her and Trump. I know what happened to her over the past five years serving in Congress, which was…
THEO VON: She was like, Trump withdrew. Trump withdrew his political endorsement and publicly insulted Greene, labeling her as a traitor due to her vocal opposition to his handling of Epstein files and other policy disagreements.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: Green announced her resignation effective January 5, 2026, to avoid a divisive primary challenge. But why not? Divisive, huh? Is it divisive, a primary challenge?
TUCKER CARLSON: Divisive.
THEO VON: Oh, divisive. They change it so much.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, they do.
THEO VON: They do, do they? But why not go and challenge, then? Why secede then? Why not go and say, okay, I’m going to keep fighting and people are going to support you?
TUCKER CARLSON: I honestly don’t know the answer.
THEO VON: You don’t?
TUCKER CARLSON: The only thing I know, I really don’t. I haven’t talked to her about it, and I don’t know the answer. I’m sure there’s thinking behind it that I’m not that great at. The thinking about what the right move in politics is. But I know, big picture, what happened, because I saw it up close, which is she showed up very much like any other person. It’s like this country has problems. I want to fix them. And she shows up, and all people are like, shut up, honey.
She was getting too close to what the truth is. And the truth is the people running the system are completely corrupt. And the welfare of their people, our country’s people, is not even on their list of concerns at all. They’re beholden to the people who pay them or who threaten them. And she said that out loud and, oh man, she had very few allies. Once you say that, you’re marked. So I think she concluded, this is my understanding, she concluded I can’t, I’m having no effect here at all. It’s driving me crazy. And the Epstein thing.
The Epstein Files
You know, I’ve never understood what the justification for keeping that information secret. Epstein was murdered in prison. Okay. I know a lot about it. I’m not just throwing that out there. Epstein was murdered in prison.
THEO VON: Well, they put him with a cellmate that was kind of a crazy, like former police officer, right?
The Epstein Case and Questions of Power
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, former police officer, killed a number of drug dealers. I’m not saying that guy did it, but I’m saying, well, I asked Bureau of Prisons because I learned all this stuff about it, because I know Epstein’s brother Mark well. And I never expected to go down this rabbit hole at all. The guy called me like a week after his brother was killed.
THEO VON: Mark did?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. And yeah.
Literally sitting in my backyard in Maine. And he called me and I don’t know how he got my cell. And it ended up this years long thing. It’s not interesting and I won’t bore you with it, but the bottom line is Jeff Epstein was murdered in federal lockup in Manhattan in the secure unit. I think there were only 16 men on the unit and I think only 14 there that I may have thought slightly wrong. But it’s very small and it’s the most secure federal lockup in the United States, and he got murdered in it.
So that raises all kinds of obvious questions like who has the power to do that? So it’s a big deal. And then the Attorney General at the time helped cover it up. And I know him and Bill Barr. So I, and I say that and he’s like, I’m going to sue you. And I said, go ahead and sue me. I hope you will. And what’s the answer? Like, why don’t you answer? He never will.
Well, it turns out, and this does make you crazy, that his father, Donald Barr, is the guy who started Epstein’s career, who both gave him his first job, for which he was not qualified, and then got him a second job at Bear Stearns, for which he was definitely unqualified. What is that? Former CIA guy, OSS guy.
But anyway, the point is that question of how an American citizen, kid toucher or not, could get murdered in federal lockup in our biggest city, like, holy s*, that should scare everybody. And then the Attorney General of the United States is covering it up. He admitted this is the Attorney General when Epstein was murdered, said, “I told everyone around me, we need to make sure the country believes this was a suicide.” It’s like you haven’t even done a freaking investigation. You’re the chief law enforcement officer and you’re telling me the outcome before you even look into it.
THEO VON: How do you know that?
TUCKER CARLSON: Because he admitted it in his autobiography. And so I’m not guessing at any of this stuff. Okay, so, so I call Bureau of Prisons and I’m like, I want the names of the inmates who are serving on this block. Because clearly nobody got in or out of the block. It’s right.
THEO VON: Well, it also was a question to our prison system. It’s like, how would you not know? Like, obviously this is the guy you have to protect.
TUCKER CARLSON: They did it on purpose. And he was murdered, clearly by another inmate. And there is so much. I mean, I did like an hour on this. Anyone interested can look it up, but I’m not a conspiracy nut at all. I’ve been a journalist my whole life. I’ve often been wrong, but I’ve always been attentive to what I believe the facts to be. I think it really matters whether you’re accurate, and I’ve tried to be.
So it was not a perfect storm of screw ups. They never did the investigation into how this guy died. They redressed him in clothes that he wasn’t wearing when he died for pictures in the hospital infirmary. All the records of what happened to his body are gone. And critically we cannot get, and I tried directly by calling the Attorney General’s office, I want a list of the names of the inmates publicly available. They’re convicted felons, dude. This is not secret information on national security information. Why can’t you tell me that?
They allowed him to be murdered in federal lockup. So leave all the Pedo island stuff out of it and just ask yourself, how can we continue to live in a country where a high profile inmate can be murdered in our prison system by some who’s powerful enough to do that?
THEO VON: Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: And so these are not only legitimate questions, they’re essential questions. And like, we’re mad at the people asking them. That’s the weirdest thing you.
THEO VON: Yeah, that’s.
TUCKER CARLSON: Sorry, I’m forgetting.
THEO VON: No, that’s one of the craziest things right now. It feels like the people you’re supposed to be able to ask you can’t. Like you, we’re the weird people now for asking questions. Like, it’s like you get labeled as the weird guy for asking questions.
TUCKER CARLSON: They just don’t want them into your head.
Bari Weiss and Questions of Allegiance
THEO VON: They just said that lady Bari Weiss or whatever her name is. And she was on ABC, one of.
TUCKER CARLSON: The greatest liars in our public life. Did you see this video?
THEO VON: She said? I think she mentioned you in it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Unbelievable. Liar.
THEO VON: You’re the head of CBS that I’m.
TUCKER CARLSON: Beginning to sort of reckon with right now is the extent of profound anti American and anti Jewish sentiment on large parts of the American right. A lot of the illiberalism on the left that came from the fringe into the mainstream of the Democratic Party began as a fringe online movement that a lot of Democrats and a lot of liberals waved away because it was just some crazy influencers online. And woe to the people that still are telling themselves that and still believe that the things that Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson are saying will not make an impact on the right because they will.
TUCKER CARLSON: Everything about that is just so amazing to me. I’m anti American. Really. The family’s been here for 400 years. I have no allegiance to any foreign country. I put my country first. And you takes a lot of balls for Bari Weiss, who acts openly on behalf of a foreign country. Her only concerns are not American concerns. They pertain to the fortunes of foreign country.
THEO VON: Do they really?
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah. Yes, yes. I’m not. That’s an informed statement. And calling me anti America, you can say that Carlson’s an a or whatever, but she has to call me the one thing that she is, which is like this weird psychology, I have to say, calling me a hater. I’m a lot of things. A buffoon, a hothead, you know, bad table manners, whatever. Fat. I’m not anti American. That’s all I care about.
THEO VON: I would say fat, maybe holiday chubby, maybe.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, but okay, so that’s the first thing.
THEO VON: Like, you seem like you own a couple. Build a Bears probably, you know, but just the seasonal ones. I think you always look like you’re ready for Christmas.
TUCKER CARLSON: You know what? I wear the same clothes and it keeps my weight down. I’m so cheap. I’m not buying new clothes ever. And I just wear, I wear size 36. And if I get above that, I’m just going to suffer through it till I stop eating donuts. But anyway, and I’m not attacking. Look, here’s what I’m saying. I think Barry Weiss is super energetic.
THEO VON: But why is this coming? Supporting a different country and not our country? First anti American, right? But also, Barry Weiss is a vocal supporter of Israel, describing her views as pro Israel.
TUCKER CARLSON: She’s a quote, Zionist fanatic. Calling me. She’s a self identified Zionist fanatic. Calling me on to whatever. Obviously I’m being too little.
THEO VON: Why does she get to be the head and, I don’t know, the lady? But why does she get to, if her allegiance isn’t to America first, how is she the head of an American network?
The Problem of Mediocrity in Leadership
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s of course an entirely fair question that you’re not allowed to ask. But here’s the deeper thing that I’ve been meditating on recently. Is that a lot of our overlords like Barry Weiss are actually totally mediocre. And the most depressing thing about the United States in 2025 is that we’re led not just by bad people, but by unimpressive, dumb, totally non creative people.
Barry Weiss has no experience in journalism at all. Like, she’s never committed. She’s like an opinion writer or whatever for the New York Times or something. She’s not a journalist. Like never written a freaking story in her life. And she’s dumb. She doesn’t know anything. So that’s fine. Lots of dumb people. My dogs are dumb. I don’t hold it against him.
But for you to ascend to the top of whatever pyramid you think you occupy. And you’re not even impressive. Like Bill Ackman. Same thing. Bill Ackman’s worth like $8 billion or something. It’s fine. I don’t care if Bill Ackman. Whatever Bill Ackman does by no Bill Ackman, he’s kind of dumb. He’s not ever created anything. He’s totally non creative. How do these people wind up running our biggest institutions?
And the reason that’s significant is because if you pay close enough attention and you realize that the people running everything are stupid, then you think, well, actually, the system is truly rigged. On behalf of people who do not deserve these positions at all. It’s not just that I disagree with Barry Weiss or she’s calling me names or I’m calling her names or whatever. It’s like, in no fair system and no meritocracy would Barry Weiss rise above secretary.
Like, actually, and I mean that. I’ve been in this business my whole. I’ve been in this business since Barry Weiss was breastfeeding. Okay? There’s no world in which Bari Weiss rises to the top of a news network except a rigged world. That’s it. Does that make sense? It’s. It’s shocking to me, right?
THEO VON: They’re not. Like people aren’t even putting their best people in front. Like they’re.
Creativity Versus the Machine
TUCKER CARLSON: They’re. It’s almost a humiliation exercise. It’s like we’re going to take someone as stupid as Bill Ackman and give him $8 billion. We’re going to take someone as stupid and totally non creative, like literally uninformed. Like she didn’t even know who Assad was. Like she’s an idiot. And we’re going to put her in charge of CBS News.
Just to show that individual merit, energy, creativity, which is the most important thing. Creativity is what a healthy society rewards. Because we are designed to create things. That’s why we’re not animals. We’re human beings. The creative power is the spark that distinguishes us from all other species. We create things. God created the world. He created us in his image. And we created. Henceforth create things.
So creativity has to be the most rewarded factor in any healthy society. And now because our society is inverse, it’s upside down. Creativity is penalized. How dare you say that? It’s not what every other drone is saying. It’s not the machine tells us to say. And Barry Weiss, the single least creative human being, the single most robotic. What are the talking points? Repeating them. That person winds up at the top of the pyramid.
It is. That is what offends me. It’s not that she loves Israel. I don’t give a s* what she thinks of Israel. It’s not that she criticizes me, obviously, I don’t really care. It’s that her presence at the top of CBS News means all of those institutions are totally fake. That’s what. That’s why.
THEO VON: All of what institutions?
TUCKER CARLSON: The news institutions are that institution Wall Street. If Bill Ackman, you tell me one. And I’m not even like moralizing. And I don’t hate Bill Ackman, but like Bill Ackman, an idiot.
THEO VON: Who is he? I don’t know him.
TUCKER CARLSON: He’s a hedge fund guy who’s made most of his money by short selling. And that means I go on CNBC and I attack your company. Its stock price falls and I’ve made a reverse bet against the stock price and I get rich. You tell me how that benefits your society. Talking about American companies, like how is that productive? How is that the act of creation? It’s the act of destruction. And I give you $8 billion. The whole system is. Is rigged. Okay, I.
THEO VON: Well, I think a lot of people feel that now. They feel like the system is rigged. They feel like there’s no way for them to win. They feel like it’s all insider trading. They feel like it’s Hollywood or the news creates a narrative that affects what goes on and then garbage, Garbage.
TUCKER CARLSON: The mass media, all of it is turning out slop. And it’s.
THEO VON: I understand that, but how does that evolve? How do things get better? It.
The New Institutions
TUCKER CARLSON: Those institutions are done. So our job, again, is to love the people around us and tell the truth. And in that act, we make things better. Okay, because, new dude, you’ve got the second biggest podcast in the world or something. I mean, I don’t think I haven’t.
THEO VON: Looked at the charts, but okay, we’re doing good. I know you’re number seven.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve been in this my whole life. You’ve been in this like, I don’t know, you were a stand up comedian and all of a sudden you’re like dominating global podcasting. It’s like, how did that happen? That’s the new. It’s just one example, but that’s the new institution.
THEO VON: Yeah, dude, we’re doing our best, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, but it’s working. That’s the point.
THEO VON: These glasses aren’t even real. The other day.
TUCKER CARLSON: Are those not. Those are pretty ugly to be fake. If you’re going to buy. Yeah, if you’re going to buy fake glasses, like, I.
THEO VON: Everybody hates these. I just got them.
TUCKER CARLSON: They used to call those birth control glasses.
THEO VON: Really?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, those work. You’re never going to impregnate anyone in those glasses.
THEO VON: Would you know my name, Dude, I’m never going to knock anybody out.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’re right. You’re totally right.
THEO VON: You know what?
TUCKER CARLSON: I think you just overcame your eyewear with that. You break out the acoustic Air Clapton, and even I want to sleep with you. I totally agree.
The New World Being Born
TUCKER CARLSON: No, but I think for all that, I do think. What’s the phrase they use? The black pill or whatever. Everyone’s like, so it’s all falling apart. That’s a stage on the continuum. This is an arc of consciousness. And you realize, holy shit, everything is terrible. It’s falling apart. And then you get through that, right?
This just happened to me. I just got through it. And I’m like, yes, but a new world is being born, like, for real. And it’s beautiful and it’s honest and it’s creative. It’s not just. It’s not fake. Everything. What you hate about the modern world is that it lacks creativity. And creativity is the human spark. It’s the energy that makes you different from the chair you’re sitting in and that is bursting out everywhere. And I love it.
THEO VON: Well, they. I saw an article the other day. Did you see about how. Oh, with TikTok, right? With social media, with trying to own the companies. Right? Do you see that video with Netanyahu for the TikTok ownership? This is wild, bro. This is a time.
The Battle for Social Media
TUCKER CARLSON: You can’t fight today with swords. Doesn’t work very well. But we have to fight with the weapons that apply to the battlefields in which we’re engaged.
THEO VON: And the most important ones are on social media. And the most important purchase that is.
TUCKER CARLSON: Going on right now is class.
THEO VON: Somebody said buy followers. How hilarious is that? Dude? That’s the best.
TUCKER CARLSON: TikTok. TikTok number one. Number one. And I hope it goes through because.
THEO VON: It can be consequential.
TUCKER CARLSON: Imagine saying that. What is that? Why did he say that, do you think? Why did he just confirm every crazed anti-Semitic conspiracy online? “Jews control everything.” And there’s literally the prime minister of Israel being like, “yes, we control everything.” Why would he say something?
First of all, he like, Barry Weiss is kind of stupid. Clever, ruthless, but stupid. Not creative at all. There’s that, but there’s a deeper reason. Because he’s trying to inspire hatred. He’s trying to inspire hatred. “Yes, we control everything.” And I’m not falling for it. I’m not going to be a hater. I don’t care what they do.
Seeing Evil in Real Time
THEO VON: Well, I mean, you’re. We’re being a hater in the sense where, like, if you hate against him, but I guess if you’re saying it’s evil, then yeah, hating evil isn’t wrong, right?
But here’s what I’m wondering. It’s like if you teach me like growing up, like about the Holocaust, you teach me about Nazis, you teach me about evil, and then I take what I’ve learned, right? And I apply it to the world. And I see it. I see it point blank. I see it in Gaza, I see it in the Middle East, I see it in Palestine. And it’s the first one where you see these things happening. Like, it’s almost like, well, if I had seen slavery on my phone, I’d be like, this is f*ed up. If I had seen, you know, it’s like it’s the first thing you see.
TUCKER CARLSON: And did you see that chick who was some conference recently? I think she was like Kamala Harris’s speechwriter, former speechwriter. And she’s like, “you know, we made a huge mistake, like talking too much about the Holocaust. Because now people are comparing what’s happening in Gaza to the Holocaust.”
THEO VON: But it’s like, don’t come in and gaslight me to think now I’m wrong for seeing this. And then, and then imagine if we.
TUCKER CARLSON: Never should have mentioned the Nazis because we set absolute standards of behavior that we’re now failing to meet and we’re being blamed. It’s like, are you.
THEO VON: And then now when this guy says they want to buy TikTok so that the influence is different, like, it’s just like, I don’t understand. But to see why are we the only people that feel or why aren’t more people activated about this? It’s like watching.
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, but can I just make you feel better?
THEO VON: Watching something horrible happen and we can’t even ask our own country for help. That’s the crazy part. I can’t believe that half of our representatives aren’t speaking up and saying something like, “hey, we’re going to shut this down. This is wrong. We’re not going to let.” Because wasn’t he condemned by the ICC for.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, they don’t care.
THEO VON: He was a condemned war criminal. Right?
TUCKER CARLSON: Right.
THEO VON: Is that right? I guess. Yeah. And I just don’t understand how regular people, comedians and, you know, a guy who loves Johnston and Murphy from Maine are the ones who are having to speak up about that. Like, what is going on?
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s the beauty that I’m talking about. That’s the new world being.
THEO VON: And sorry if you don’t love Johnston and Murphy.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t. These are like my Turkish grounding shoes.
THEO VON: Those are nice.
TUCKER CARLSON: They’re so ugly. But I got these from someone else in the nicotine business who’s like, “dude, these will ground you to the earth’s essential forces.” Really? I don’t know what that means. Of course, I have no idea. But I am originally from California in the 70s, so I kind of fall for shit like that.
THEO VON: I’m like, look like you could smoke in them for sure, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: But I’ll say this.
TUCKER CARLSON: Cigarettes in those.
THEO VON: In my life, every time I see a Johnston Murphy, I peek my head and I say, “hey, Tucky.” I say that.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t really know what it is.
THEO VON: Just like, it’s like a shop. It’s like a Brooks. Brooks Brothers kind of.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah, no, I buy my clothes on eBay, always.
THEO VON: But anyway, sorry, it wasn’t. It wasn’t a negative.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, no. But here’s the point, though.
THEO VON: It wasn’t a negative thing.
TUCKER CARLSON: This is the beautiful thing.
THEO VON: Like, negative.
The Human Spirit Is Irrepressible
TUCKER CARLSON: No, I never get the reference. I’m so out of it. But we’re like in this moment where the old is going away and the new is on its way and some of it is menacing and scary and hard to understand, like, AI or crypto. Okay, could be good, could be bad, could be both. But it’s big.
But some of it is just totally recognizable. It’s called the human spirit. And it’s irrepressible. You can’t actually extinguish it. No matter how many people you kill and no matter how many lies you tell, it will always sort of bubble up around you. And it’s bubbling up now in a big way.
And I would just. Last thing I want to say, like, if you really are worried, if you feel like, “oh, there’s this international conspiracy of people to oppress humanity and to kill humanity,” that’s obviously true. Degrade us, enslave us. Obviously true. Like, not even a guess that’s happening, but who’s behind it.
Go and read some of the Epstein emails that have been released. Thousands have been released. And ask yourself, like, as a human, what’s the first thing I notice? Jeffrey Epstein was a f*ing idiot. He could barely speak English. He was from Coney Island, and he was like an idiot. He was like an idiot. He writes like a moron. Okay?
We are being oppressed by dumb people. We imagine they’re geniuses because they’re evil. But we miss the obvious signs that these people are stupid. They are stupid. They are not as impressive as, like, the normal people in my world. Jeff Epstein was an idiot. So we have this picture of, like, the diabolical genius pulling the strings. “I’m moving this population here and this population. I’ll give him the COVID vax.”
But really, you’ve got, like, just thugs. They’re just, like, nightclub bouncers. Billions of dollars in their idiots. They’re head injury patients. Bill Ackman, like, he’s a f*ing idiot. Jeff Epstein. It’s true. Barry Weiss. Like, I’m not too worried about Barry Weiss taking over the world. I don’t care how many billionaires hand her news organizations because she’s obedient to their preferred country. She’s still an idiot. Sorry.
THEO VON: Yeah, I’ve heard Tim Dillon talk about her, but I’m not that familiar with her.
Barry Weiss and the Toady Moment
TUCKER CARLSON: He knew her very well. I think he did. So I think Tim. And he can speak for himself. But as I remember the story, like, he was in her orbit. And, you know, I know all the people, of course, in her orbit, and some of them I like. I’ve never disliked Barry Weiss personally. She’s. She’s very charming, I will say, and very energetic, which I love. Anybody, but he was, like, buddies with her and they’re going to parties and then, like, well, he can explain it better than I could, but my understanding is he’s like, one day he’s like, “killed a lot of kids in Gaza,” I think.
And I think within like, 10 minutes, she was, like, on the phone with his agent. “Gotta fire Tim Dillon.” Wow. Okay. So I guess our friendship wasn’t built on the foundation I assumed it was. It’s like. And dumb people are very much like that. They have, like, one interest. They’re what we call single issue voters. Like, there’s no nuance at all.
I remember her. Do you remember when she attacked Tulsi Gabbard, who’s a beautiful soul? Just a good.
THEO VON: Tulsi’s very nice. She sent me a couple of nice messages.
TUCKER CARLSON: She’s just a great person. She’s an honest person, very talented. Remember when she attacked her on Rogan and Rogan in his.
THEO VON: Oh, yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Rogan stood up for her in his wonderful way. He’s like, “I’m not sure. What do you mean by that?” You know, in his. Rogan, like, not attacking back, but just, like, explain yourself a little more. And Barry Weiss was like. It was like you caught her on the john or something. She was like, “oh, yeah. Have to explain the casual slander I threw at her.”
She had no idea what she was talking about. Oh, it was the word toady. She didn’t know what toady meant. “She’s a toady for Assad.” And it’s like, oh, there it is. Oh, my memory is still in place. And she couldn’t define toady, according to.
THEO VON: Multiple accounts from listeners. In subsequent commentary, Weiss struggled to define toady and that specific context and failed to effectively back up her assertion with specific facts being flustered during the exchange. The moment was wildly circulating clips online and frequently brought up by critics of Weiss as an example of a journalist using unsubstantiated labels or neocon talking.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, it’s an example of someone who got a 350 on the English SAT. Okay, this is a dumb person.
THEO VON: We don’t know that.
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay. But somehow got a job at the New York Times. You don’t know what toady is like. She’s in the word business, baby. You know?
America First?
THEO VON: Well, I just don’t understand how, like, why isn’t there. Like, you used to believe that everybody that was elected was campaigning for America First, Right? Like, America first was the thing.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s our system. Right.
THEO VON: But that’s not what’s going on.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s, of course, just the opposite. I mean, look at the country. So the country’s dying not because the people were bad, because of bad leadership. Yeah, leadership is every. I used to. You know, you get brainwashed growing up here and you’re like, “no, what really matters is how most people feel.”
No, what really matters is the willingness of your leaders to actually die for you as you would for your children. Like, it’s that simple. If they love you, your country will prosper. If they hate you, it will fail. It’s super simple. They don’t like us. Okay, got it, Got it.
The Cost of Cowering
THEO VON: And what do you think that we could do differently? I know that John Rich on your show, that one thing that was interesting, he said that he felt like a lot of Americans have just kind of cowered and watched this kind of happen.
TUCKER CARLSON: Don’t be a bitch.
THEO VON: Yeah, he was pretty adamant about it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Don’t ever be a bitch.
THEO VON: He was speaking mostly about Christians, but also about Americans that they’ve just kind of cowered and sort of let this, like, let evil policies, evil things come in and not stood up for their own voices or stood up against their own fears. Do you think that that’s true?
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, gosh, it’s the truest thing. I participated in it. There are plenty of things I just, like, I don’t want to deal with that.
THEO VON: Oh, yeah. What? I’m asking if it’s true, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: At the loss.
THEO VON: Yeah, I mean, I do, too.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not. I hate to point out one of your, as I said a minute ago, one of your tics, verbal tics that I just, I want to emulate and I want to be like, this is. You preface every attack or assessment of someone else with a self critique. You’re like, “I’ve done a lot of shitty things, but I think that person’s doing a shitty thing.” Like, that’s a really good habit to get into. Just because righteousness is good, self righteousness is evil. And there’s a big difference.
THEO VON: Well, your ego is very scary. That’s a thing.
TUCKER CARLSON: So scary. It’s the scariest thing.
THEO VON: It’s the scariest thing.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s what kills you if you’re a man anyway.
Where Does Leadership Come From Now?
THEO VON: For sure, the ego is very scary. But, yeah. Have there been like, yeah, where is the leadership supposed to come from now? Like, if we can’t believe that our politicians are going to guide us. Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, the system is obviously changing, you know, just like the media. Okay. I went into this in 1991. It’s. I can’t. I could write 10 books on how different it is, everything about it, not just my perceptions of it. But the systems itself are totally different. And so systems evolve, and we’re clearly at the end of something and the beginning of something else.
And I can’t know with any precision what we’re moving into. But clearly it’s not going to be like what we had. Like, we know that because this system doesn’t work. It doesn’t produce anything worth having. It’s obviously dishonest in a transparent way. A lie doesn’t infuriate you unless you know it’s a lie. Now we know it’s a lie.
So by definition, we can’t keep doing this. And Bari Weiss can be like, “Anyone who disagrees with Netanyahu is now imprisoned,” and you can do that. And I’m sure she would love to do that, but it’s still not going to work because you’re going to have prisons full of people who still disagree with Barry Weiss. Like, you can’t change people’s minds by force. It has never worked and it never will.
So our system is reaching the end of something. I hope it’s not. I love our system. I hope it’s not destroyed, but clearly it’s going to change. It has to. It will.
THEO VON: It feels like it’s going to happen fast, though, doesn’t it?
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s going to happen fast, and I just hope it’s not too destructive. I don’t want chaos, man. That is. I’ve seen that in foreign countries, and it’s scary. There’s nothing scarier than that. Is there happened in your state? It happened during. I saw it during Katrina.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: I was like, I can’t believe this is happening. You know, just for a day or two where there’s no cops and there are kids running around with guns and, like, shooting. I was right next to a guy who got shot to death. Like, what? Yeah, yeah.
THEO VON: People listening to young boy just popping off to doing who knows what.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s what chaos looks like. It’s so bad. Yeah, I don’t want that at all.
THEO VON: And there’ll be a lot. Yeah, there’s a lot of guns in this state, too. So, people, there’s a lot of guns.
TUCKER CARLSON: In every state, but especially in my house. But. Yeah, but I’m not the only one. And I know, you know, I don’t think in the end, oh, I think.
Blacks Versus Drones
THEO VON: How it all ends is blacks versus drones. That’s how I think it ends. And I’ve said this before, and I believe that.
TUCKER CARLSON: So can you game it out for me a little bit? How does that play out?
THEO VON: Because like, you know, the news over time and everything, it makes white people regular, you know, white people look bad, white people, the devil, blah, blah. Yeah, whiteies. You know, during like the Trump campaign, they were like every Southern person or Midwestern person was the only, you know, piece of shit. You know, just all that.
Though the white people started ending up on a lot of pills and stuff like that and just confused about their own value and stuff like that. And that’s been unfortunate because there’s a lot of great people, but it’s actually.
TUCKER CARLSON: One of the great crimes ever in this country.
THEO VON: It’s unbelievable.
TUCKER CARLSON: It is.
THEO VON: But black folks, I think are still, like, fit. They’re still like, you know, they’ve kind of gone through this. You know, they’ve. They’ve had such an origin story in America, right? Enslaved and then like, their origin story is the best to be the victor in the end. Right.
I feel like their origin story makes the best arc. Character arc to be like the hero at the end. So I think it ends up them versus drones, versus, like the drones owned by evil folks. And I think that’s how it ends, you know, wins. I think you got to go. I think I would go with black folks.
TUCKER CARLSON: I would go with any people over the drones.
THEO VON: Yes. But I think it’s going to be black folks help us win it. And they’re going to defeat the drones. How many will it be? Best of seven?
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know. We’ll see.
THEO VON: Will it be brought to you by Prize Picks? I have no idea, bro. That doesn’t matter. But I’m just saying, bro, you’re going to have. It’s going to be. That’s where I think that’s how it ends.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I. One of the reasons that, you know, all those years they called me. No one ever calls me a racist anymore, but they used to for years when I was at Fox. Racist, racist, racist. And so I really thought a lot about am I racist? And no, I’m annoyed by certain things for sure. But I’m not a racist at all.
And not just because I think it’s immoral to be racist. I’m not a racist. Because black people, what do we think of. Black people are like the most American been here. I’m talking about African Americans hundreds and hundreds of years. Like, if you believe in the country, if you really feel like you’re part of it, your ancestors are buried here. You’re going to die here. Which is how I feel. It’s like you’re in it with black people. They’ve been here since Day one, You know what I mean? There’s like a. It’s an American. I feel that actually.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not.
THEO VON: I think it’s.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know how.
THEO VON: Like, I don’t. I mean, definitely.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s a.
THEO VON: It’s a wild group, black folks, but I think they love to get in. They love to, like, they love competition. So I could definitely see them getting into it with drones, dude, and that’s how.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well I’m rooting for him. Oh, I’m rooting for blacks against drones, for sure.
THEO VON: Oh, yeah. That’s the kind of shit I’m talking about. And also, do you think that the.
TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, it’s. It’s tough, though, to fight drones.
THEO VON: Black people can figure it out.
TUCKER CARLSON: You think so?
THEO VON: I think if they. Once they really apply themselves to a sport, they start to crack the codes pretty quick. You know, you put the hit stick on a drone, dude. I think they’ll figure it out, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: I hope so.
THEO VON: It’s going to be exciting, dude. That shit’s going to be one of the best things ever. And it’ll be. We’ll be able. Some people will be able to watch it. You’ll be able to watch some of it on your phone.
TUCKER CARLSON: Really?
THEO VON: Yeah. Do blacks versus drones, for sure, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: Have you checked with black people about this at all, bro?
THEO VON: They’re down, bro. People are down in a heartbeat.
TUCKER CARLSON: Black people. It’s Theo. You guys ready for blacks versus Drones?
THEO VON: Dude, black people love to play games, bro. They love to have a good time. So I think if you. And if drones are just shooting people out in the streets and stuff, like, if one of these companies like Palantir, like they were using in Gaza comes. It starts popping off here, which now has a debt like, isn’t Palantir. They’re able to. They’re going to do our data now, aren’t they? Aren’t they. Aren’t they going to, I don’t know, oversee us?
Palantir and Government Surveillance
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know. I see a lot of. A lot of people referring to that, but I’m just going to have to plead ignorance on this.
THEO VON: And this is allegedly. But there’s articles that allege that. That they have weapons attached to drones and that they’re able to figure that out. Palantir Technologies holds multiple major contracts with the US Government, particularly with the Department of Defense, highlighted by a recent US Army Enterprise Agreement valued up to 10 billion over 10 years.
Let me see. Consolidating 75 prior contracts into one for software and data services to boost military readiness.
TUCKER CARLSON: Now Just keep it. That looks like it’s from Wikipedia, which is obviously controlled by CIA.
THEO VON: This is Perplexity right here.
TUCKER CARLSON: What’s that?
THEO VON: Perplexity is a company that advertises with us. It’s an AI.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, really?
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, good. It doesn’t scold you over.
THEO VON: Not yet, but some of that stuff’s getting pretty wild. Did you see that? They were just paying chat GPT Israel just paying chat GBT to adjust their sentiment towards them.
TUCKER CARLSON: Is that true? That’s unbelievable.
THEO VON: I don’t know if it’s true or not. I want to find out in a second if we can get this article.
The YouTube Question
TUCKER CARLSON: So the problem is going to be. The problem’s going to be YouTube. Oh, does YouTube stay open or not? I think. I mean, that’s the vector. Candace Owens is like the most famous person in the world because of YouTube.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: YouTube is the backbone of all of this stuff. And if there is some. God hope, it doesn’t happen. But if there’s some act of violence in the United States, that can be used as a pretext in the same way that January 6th was used as a pretext to shut down all these people, they’ll kick people off.
My fear is that people. There will be a crackdown on YouTube. And at that point, you know, that’s a big. That would be a true disaster for.
THEO VON: The country if they kick people off of YouTube, I think. Oh, I agree.
TUCKER CARLSON: So if there’s an act of violence, whether it’s organic or not, because some of them are not organic. Sorry. That’s a fact. A proven fact. But whatever the cause of it, if there’s an act of violence against innocence and it’s described as a hate crime that it’s not crazy to imagine, and that could be used to tie people whose opinions are unpopular with certain groups, those people need to be off YouTube and all of a sudden there’s an emergency meeting with Sundar Pichai Google, and it’s like, “I’m sorry, you cannot have purveyors of hate like Candace Owens and me or you. You can’t have them there. These people died because these podcasters said hateful things. You have to take them off.”
THEO VON: But we’re not saying hateful things, are we?
TUCKER CARLSON: Obviously, I’m totally opposed to hate. I mean, that’s like my whole life is against it. When you hate, even in your heart, even silently, you make evil stronger. That’s a fact. Well, the physics principle, dude.
The Israel Influence Debate
THEO VON: The only reason I bring up this stuff about Israel is because they are doing a genocide.
TUCKER CARLSON: I couldn’t agree more.
THEO VON: If I was in Nazi Germany and I saw bad things happening and I didn’t raise my hand, or if Nazi Germany was trying to buy a bakery next door to me and I’d be like, hey mustache guys, buying the bakery, you know, it’s like, who would I be, right? Like, I don’t understand what you want me to do. Like, you can’t get out of my…
TUCKER CARLSON: Face and I’ll stop thinking about you.
THEO VON: I said, well, you can’t train me to think one way and then show me this replica of it and not expect me to have the same sentiments toward it. Like that’s what I understand. And it calls someone a bad guy because of that is crazy to me.
This article says the government of Israel has hired a new conservative aligned firm, Clock Tower X LLC, to create media for Gen Z audiences. In a contract worth $6 million, at least 80% of content Clock Tower produces will be tailored to Gen Z audiences across platforms.
TUCKER CARLSON: Clock Tower.
THEO VON: Clock Tower integrated pro-Israel messaging in the Salem Media Network Properties, a conservative Christian media group that boasts a vast radio network and produces high profile shows such as Hugh Hewitt Show, Larry Elder show and the Right View with Lara Trump. So…
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, oh, look at that.
THEO VON: Former Trump manager Brad Parscale.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, that is so disgusting. That is so… Brad Parscale is doing that.
THEO VON: That is… I don’t know him.
TUCKER CARLSON: Is he a nice guy? I know him. He’s a sad guy. Very sad guy.
THEO VON: And it’s contract. Clock Tower does not reveal much about what kinds of messaging will be promoted on behalf of Israel.
TUCKER CARLSON: He took money for… Wait, Brad Parscale took money from the Israeli government to do that? I don’t know.
THEO VON: Former Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale, the advisor who hired the controversial micro targeting firm Cambridge Analytica during Trump’s 2016 campaign, is at the center of the Israeli government’s new deal.
Foreign Influence and American Media
TUCKER CARLSON: So Brad Parscale, I don’t think is an evil person. He’s a weak man for sure. I mean, demonstrably. But for an American citizen to take money from a foreign government to secretly propagandize on behalf of that government without saying it is really speaking of unpatriotic. I mean, that’s just… I hope that’s not true.
THEO VON: Well, it just, it’s at this point it’s, and I guess, I mean, Israel’s certainly allowed to advertise wherever they want. Anybody can do this sort of thing.
TUCKER CARLSON: This isn’t advertising. This is… So advertising is not threatening because when it’s just straightforward you see a billboard for jeans and it’s “buy my jeans.” Okay? It’s your choice.
This is basically subliminal messaging. This is an effort to subvert what you think is true by making it dishonest. I’m paying you to lie on my behalf. That’s what this is. And you don’t disclose that you’re taking money to do that.
And everything about this is dishonest and wrong. And any American who would take money for that… Again, speaking of anti-American, really, who’s the audience for this? It’s American citizens who think they’re tuning in for conservative analysis and actually they’re getting the point of view of a foreign government. How is that okay, Brad Parscale?
THEO VON: I don’t know how we… I just don’t understand. I think, yeah, I think it’s just… I don’t know, it’s a tough time because you realize, oh, you thought all these things were in place that were keeping our country. You thought our country was taking care of us.
TUCKER CARLSON: But would you not take money from a foreign… Would you take… If let’s take Israel out. Maybe you didn’t…
THEO VON: Maybe it’s… That’s not true. That’s a naive old thought of mine. It’s yeah, you realize now that that’s not the case. You know, but I think it’s where do we go from here?
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, let me just… I mean, I don’t want to be judgy because I’ve done all kinds of bad things.
THEO VON: You’ve been judgmental already.
TUCKER CARLSON: I have been. That’s one of my weaknesses. Self righteousness is the trap, and I fall into it for sure.
THEO VON: But you have to.
TUCKER CARLSON: But let me just ask you if again, take Israel out of it because it’s so emotional. Any country. Well, let’s go with Qatar. You said you like Qatar. I really like Qatar a lot. And I could defend Qatar.
But would you take money from… If Qatar’s “okay, we’ll pay you $10 million or $6 million,” which I think is what Brad Parscale got supposedly. “We want you to just subtly shift your message to be pro-Qatar. Don’t tell anybody you’re taking this money, but just feed our line to your audience without telling them you’re doing it.” Would you accept that money?
THEO VON: No, I wouldn’t do it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Of course not. Of course not. Of course. You would never do that.
THEO VON: No, I wouldn’t do something. I wouldn’t let people pay to have a person on this podcast. I wouldn’t let somebody… I wouldn’t do that, of course.
TUCKER CARLSON: Do you feel the people must be trying to… Because the podcast is sometimes…
THEO VON: Yeah, sometimes they do. Or somebody’s “hey, we Qatar asked if we would do one from their country.” Right. During a UFC fight. Right. And I thought about that, and we’re trying to figure that out. But I didn’t feel it was the best kind of setting, sort of.
And now would I go back over there sometime and spend some time? Sure. I would. Had a great time. Met some really neat guys, because a lot of the guys over there, they’re in the thobes and stuff. Thobe. They’re in the thobes are pretty awesome, dude. They’re nice because you can have no underpants on.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t think any of them do. I think they’re like kilts. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s full freestyle country.
THEO VON: Oh, God.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: Talking to somebody and just feeling your nuts bang against your legs while you’re standing there.
TUCKER CARLSON: Person has no idea.
THEO VON: That’s crazy. Agree, bro. That’s that guy, the Hunchback of Notre Dame kind of, you know.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, did he go freestyle, too?
THEO VON: No, but just him. I just imagine a handicap guy inside of my legs ringing my nuts with a rope or whatever, you know, like a bell, you know?
TUCKER CARLSON: Really? You picture a little gremlin under there. Yeah, just be fun pulling the donkey cords.
THEO VON: Oh, dude, if your nuts had real bells inside of them, that s* would be sick.
TUCKER CARLSON: Imagine the pain. The force of that ringer hitting the sides of the cast iron is a lot. I wouldn’t want that anywhere. Anywhere near.
THEO VON: That’s true. I bet if your nuts weighed even two more ounces, it would strain you so much.
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude. Yes.
THEO VON: I bet your nuts have the perfect weight to them.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s the whole theory of evolution, isn’t it? We evolved to have perfectly weighted nuts, and our ancestors who had, I don’t know, disproportionately weighted nuts, they didn’t reproduce, so their genes died.
THEO VON: Average human testicles each weigh about 15 to 25 grams. Wow, that’s…
TUCKER CARLSON: So how would you compare that? It’s about an eight ball.
THEO VON: That’s a couple eight ball.
TUCKER CARLSON: A couple eight balls.
THEO VON: How many grams are in an eight ball? I think it’s eight, right?
TUCKER CARLSON: Seven and a half, I think.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: It depends on where you… If you’re getting it in Baltimore, it’s probably six in there.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I think that’s right. Does the baby laxative?
TUCKER CARLSON: 3.5. Oh, gosh. It’s been too long. See, that’s how rehabbed you are, dude. I love that. Did you hear that? Did you hear his genuine ignorance about narcotics? D*, you are better.
THEO VON: I’m losing street credit, though, dude. I can’t even…
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude, you forgot how to free base at this point. Is it baking soda or cleaning fluid? I can’t remember.
THEO VON: I’ve been selling really good eight balls, man. Oh, dude.
Why the Israel Issue Matters
THEO VON: What else was I going to ask you about? Yeah, but so somebody’s “what do you… Why do you care about it?” Because I just think that it’s you can’t allow a country. I don’t know.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m just… I don’t care. I almost can’t wait. Talking about it now. I’m… I’m so beyond sick of talking about it. Sorry.
THEO VON: I’m sorry that I’m…
TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, not with you, but I actually called the Israeli government more than once, and I was “okay, I got it. Just stop. You’re going to get me killed.”
Just stop taking money from my country. I won’t even criticize your genocide, because there are lots of bad things going on in the world. That’s true. That is true. They’re not the only ones. Okay, that is absolutely right when they say that, though, they’re not the only country committing atrocities.
THEO VON: Oh, no. Our own country’s committing atrocities.
TUCKER CARLSON: I agree. I totally agree.
THEO VON: I think it’s all coming out in the snow right now, but it’s just… It’s crazy.
TUCKER CARLSON: How about we just don’t send any more money for those atrocities? I don’t think that’s too much to ask. If you would stop it. If you get out of the Oval Office, no more visits from your prime minister. This is insane.
There are so many countries in the world that actually matter. Your country doesn’t matter. It’s the size of Maryland. You have no natural resources at all. You are irrelevant, except to the extent we promise to defend you. So how about you just go do your own thing? We wish you well, and I will never think about you again.
THEO VON: Why do you think that doesn’t happen?
TUCKER CARLSON: Because they can’t exist without us. And so rather than just say that, we get these lectures “oh, America can’t exist without Israel.” It’s why are you even talking to me?
First of all, at some point, I’m offended. Stop lecturing me. Actually, I’m from here. I’m not a perfect person, but I really care about this place because I have nowhere else to go, and my ancestors are here and… stop, but they won’t stop.
And they’re constantly calling you names because they’re committing bad behavior. It’s I spent 30 years not talking about this. You think I didn’t notice? You think I didn’t know what was up? I’m from Washington. I know what’s up.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: And I decided I don’t talk about this because there are all kinds of other things I want to talk about. I don’t want to fight with these people. I’m not against Israel at all. I like visiting there. It’s great. I don’t want to fight.
It was only when Trump gets elected in November and by January, they’re in the Oval Office. Foreign officials from Israel in the Oval Office demanding that we pay for a regime change war against Iran.
And I’m “yeah, come on now, come on now.” We just had this election. I campaigned for Trump. I was literally at Madison Square Garden. And it was heartfelt, too. I didn’t do it. No one paid me to do it. I did it because I meant it. And I love Trump personally. I still love Trump personally.
But it was that whole election was about, we’ve had enough of this. The Iraq war didn’t work. It didn’t make us happier. It really hurt everybody, including us. Especially us. I don’t want it again. Just back off.
They didn’t wait till he got inaugurated on the 20th of January. I was there, I was in the room and days later, they’re there demanding that we back them in a regime change war. And I knew this because I’ve been around and I talked to all the people. I’m “I can’t believe this is happening.” And then in June, we came really close to getting in a full blown war with Iran.
THEO VON: Yeah, I remember that.
Israel’s Strategic Value and American Interests
TUCKER CARLSON: We spent billions in this totally pointless exercise. They’re continuing to try and make us do this. So from my perspective, it’s like, I’m not obsessed with Israel. You just back off and I’ll never mention you again. I don’t want to think about you at all, because you’re meaningless, actually. You’re a tiny country that has no strategic value at all. So just as long as you stop trying to control my government, I’ll leave you alone with somebody’s.
THEO VON: Seem like it’s a video game and they’ve always controlled everything and that.
TUCKER CARLSON: Right.
THEO VON: And then, like, that’s. And like, we’re just now realizing. It’s like, I’ve said this a couple times, but it’s almost like, that’s true. Like, if Super Mario almost, like, looked at the screen one day and, like, looked at you playing with him instead of just, like, follow your demands on the screen. Like, if one day he just, like, fing set down his fireballs and, like, looked over at you and was like, hey, what the f are we doing here? You know, it’s almost like that’s where.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s just, like, broke the fourth wall. Yes, basically. No, I. I mean, like, if he’s.
THEO VON: Just like, I’m so tired of fighting this dragon, you know, he’s like, look, let’s just let Bowser live. Let’s just chill out, you know? Like, if.
TUCKER CARLSON: I just wonder if it became real.
THEO VON: Yes.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. Well, that’s the pro. That’s exactly the process.
Breaking Free from Anger and Fear
THEO VON: That’s where we are right now. And I think that’s what you’re saying. It’s like, yeah, if you can just let go of, like, this, that. Because it’s sometimes it’s anger that fuels that, you know, sometimes it’s fear. Some of it’s like, yeah, a lot of it’s fear, I think, Uncertainty, safety.
But if you can get the anger out of it and just let it go and be like, I’m just going to do my best that I can, but I’m going to be brave and speak up when I can. Even if I’m wrong, you know, that’s the thing. It’s like, I wish more people were speaking up sometimes. Even if they were wrong. I was kind of like, do you think that enough, like, pastors and preachers didn’t speak up during the Gaza conflict? That almost blew my mind. Does that make sense to you?
The Betrayal of Christian Leaders
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s the most heartbreaking part. I mean, from my perspective as an American Christian, Protestant, American Christian, it’s like, yeah, of course I think what Israel’s doing is disgusting. I mean, it’s indefensible.
But my real rage, like, what I’m actually upset about, if you were at dinner at my house, I never talk about the. I never rage about the Israelis or the Jews at my house. I just don’t feel it. My rage, my actual personal rage, is directed toward my people. It’s Protestant, Christian evangelical pastors who have made deals with the Israeli government or have theology so deranged that they think their Christian faith requires them to support the murder of children, including Christian children.
And I know some of them, and they believe that. And that, to me, is very hard to forgive. Like, I need to be a better person. I need to keep them in my prayers because I really feel hostility toward those people because they are the betrayers. Israel, in the end, is acting in its own interest, or what it thinks is its own interest. Those people, what’s their excuse? And they’re going out there and giving sermons about Candace Owens on Sunday. She’s not in the New Testament. Okay?
THEO VON: Are they really doing that?
TUCKER CARLSON: Big time. And that is not whatever you think of Candace Owens. Like, I love Candace Owens, but maybe you hate Candace Owens. We can all agree that your opinion on Candace Owens has no bearing on the future of your soul. Okay? That’s not Christianity. It’s nothing with Candace Owens.
So, like, if you are giving sermons against Candace Owens, then you are betraying your people. Okay? And because you’re misrepresenting your faith, Christianity. And those people, I clearly need to calm down about them because they’re truly the villains in the story. That’s my opinion, of course, because you’re always maddest of the people you know best and like Israel, whatever, Go do your crazy Israeli things.
But American evangelical leaders defending Netanyahu and you know, many Christians have been killed in this, that Israel has murdered. What do Christians have to do with it? Are you telling me they’re Islamists? Oh, it’s totally true. And one of the reasons they hate me is because I keep pointing it out.
THEO VON: I know that’s true, Tucker, because they’ve.
Churches Destroyed in Gaza
TUCKER CARLSON: Blown up two churches in Gaza and killed people in the churches. What do the churches have to do with this? You’re telling me that this is some existential battle between Islam and civilization? That’s not true, by the way. But let’s say it was true. Then why are you blowing up churches?
Oh, it was an accident. Oh, really? You have the technology to put bombs in people’s pagers, but you accidentally blew up two churches? It was not an accident. They did it on purpose. They’ve killed a lot of Christians on purpose. And I’m probably the only person in American media to point that out because I’m a Christian, so I get to say that if I want. Shut up, Nazi.
THEO VON: Why aren’t there more?
TUCKER CARLSON: Like, where are the Christian leaders in this? Yeah, so now you’ve pissed me off like this.
THEO VON: I’m sorry, man.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t even know. Whenever we’re talking about anti-Semitism or the Nazis or Israel, whatever, it’s like, it’s so fake to me that I’m not. I don’t get upset. This is real to me.
THEO VON: Oh, the church of Saint Porphyrius.
TUCKER CARLSON: Saint Porphyrius? Yeah, it’s a famous church, the Greek.
THEO VON: Orthodox Church, one of the oldest in the world, was hit by an Israeli airstrike on October 19, 2023. The strike collapsed an adjacent church affiliated building where around 4 to 500 people displaced were sheltering, killing 18 people.
The Holy Family Church. As the only Catholic church in Gaza Strip, this church has been a central shelter for Gaza’s Christian community. In December 2023, two women were reportedly killed by a sniper while leaving the church. And July 2025, the church was struck by an Israeli tank fire, killing injuring 10, including the parish priest, Father Gabriel Romanelli.
Well, why isn’t the Pope spoken up about it either? I wonder, has he spoken about it? What did the Pope say?
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, I’m not, I don’t keep track, I’m not Catholic, but I was.
THEO VON: Going to church here in town and I was just shocked that people weren’t speaking about it. Like, and that’s moment where you start to feel like, am I crazy in.
The Great Deception
TUCKER CARLSON: The evangelical world and not all this is a very broad brush. I know a million, I had dinner next to one last night who’s just a wonderful person. And there are lots of tons of great evangelicals, but their leadership in general has not only refused to condemn it, they’ve defended it.
And at that point it’s like, this is the great deception you read about in the New Testament. If this isn’t a great deception, Jesus message is not to kill children, okay? And if you’re telling me that it is, I don’t need a theology degree to say you are a false prophet and you’re going to have to pay for what? I mean, you are like taking your soul into your own hands when you say sh*t like that.
That is so the opposite of the message. This is not a religion of conquest and violence. It’s the opposite period. How can you read it and tell me otherwise? Oh, well, in Esther it says, okay.
THEO VON: But why are they, or why are they doing that? Do they? But because this Israel, the Bible, right? This is the, this is a. I’ve.
TUCKER CARLSON: Tried to have this conversation, okay? Sorry. If it is, tell me how. Yeah, what are you even talking about? And I’m not a theologian, I’m a freaking Episcopalian. Like, I admit, I know nothing, but I do read the Bible every day, so I just don’t see what you’re talking about. So you tell me what you’re talking about.
This is the Israel we read about. This is the inheritance of Abraham. And no way how, how genetically the same is it are the people who live there now, related to the people we read about in the Old Testament. If they are, we have DNA tests. Tell me how that works. Oh, those are banned. Okay, so then you tell me it’s the same religion. How is it the same religion? There’s no temple. Like, what are you even talking about, by the way?
Maybe there’s a good answer that I just don’t know. I don’t understand. But they literally never even try to answer the question. It’s shut up, Nazi. Including from Christian ministers calling me a Nazi.
THEO VON: Really?
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, big time. And again, not to make it about me, but I just want to be honest about it. That upsets me. Whereas, you know, Netanyahu also called me a Nazi. It’s like you’re just some dumb politician.
THEO VON: He called you a Nazi directly?
TUCKER CARLSON: Absolutely.
THEO VON: That’s crazy.
Called a Nazi by Netanyahu and Christian Pastors
TUCKER CARLSON: Of course. Yeah. My tax dollars are paying his salary. Oh, he’s. Oh, he’s. Yeah, I can’t even tell you. But yes, of course. But it’s the Christian pastors. When you ask a simple question, you’re telling me we have a duty to support quote Israel, because a verse in Genesis tells you that. Okay, fine. That’s totally fine. What does that mean? What is the Israel you’re talking about? Shut up, Nazi. It’s like you’re a Christian pastor and I’m a Christian. I’m a faithful.
THEO VON: What? Pastor impostors were saying that. Are there specific pastors? Dr. Mike Evans, Heritage Center.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, listen. Right now we have a movement within the MAGA movement that is anti-Israel. It’s serious because it’s led by Tucker Carlson, was very close to vice president. It’s coming out and saying worse things presently. The Nazi Party said. I’m saying worse things that the Nazi Party said.
I’m totally anti-Nazi. I’m totally anti-hate, and above all, I’m anti-blood guilt and collective punishment, which is what was bad about the Nazis, let’s remember. And this guy is a Christian minister or supposedly or something. So it’s this kind of thing that actually does get under my skin. That’s my problem. I should just shrug it off. But I have a lot of trouble shrugging it off because it’s such a distortion of my religious faith that I have trouble letting it go. I’m just being honest.
THEO VON: Well, I think it’s brave to be able to speak up, even sometimes if you’re right or wrong. It’s brave to try.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s our obligation to try. I was quiet for 30 years. I shouldn’t have been. I shouldn’t Have. I didn’t want to fight, but I shouldn’t have been.
THEO VON: And people say, well, you get information wrong. It’s like. But if information is given out, that’s wrong. Then how do you expect something, someone to know accurate information?
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude, I’m telling you, it’s really simple because this is the business I’ve always been in. I ask questions. Hold on.
THEO VON: You have stuff right here.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s nicotine. And I wanted to say how good it is. It’s an opportunity. It’s a form of advertisement. Like I, I let it hang out of my. My wife’s not here to lick her thumb, which she does, which is kind of hot. But you say you’ve got stuff on your face. Then I get to pause and say, it’s not just stuff, Theo Von. It’s nicotine. It’s alp. The pouch for your mouth.
THEO VON: Yeah, you got a little mogul right there.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, but you don’t see it back there.
THEO VON: Yeah, sure.
TUCKER CARLSON: Like, if I was using Zinn, you’d be like, wait, your lower back is covered with this weird white sh*t. Why is that? I don’t know.
The Pope’s Position on the Conflict
THEO VON: I’ve definitely done some things, but I’ll say this. Pope Leo the 14th has reiterated the Vatican’s insistence on a two-state resolution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, saying it’s the only solution that can guarantee justice for both sides. Leo made the comment as he flew from Turkey to Lebanon.
TUCKER CARLSON: May I ask, there’s been a change in the spelling of, Of Turkey. It went from Turkey to Turkey.
THEO VON: Turkey.
TUCKER CARLSON: This is like the Kiev Kyiv change. And no one notified me.
THEO VON: They probably bought letters. Somebody. There might have been a letter deal or something. Let me see. Turkey. Turkey. Maybe they’re trying. Who knows, man?
TUCKER CARLSON: Turkey.
THEO VON: And like, I was just in Turkey.
TUCKER CARLSON: And they were calling it Turkey.
Jewish People and Speaking Out
And do you feel like it’s hard for a lot of Jewish people to speak up about this because they’re afraid of alienating other Jewish friends? That’s what I found with some of my Jewish friends. They’ll talk with me about it and stuff like that.
And my Jewish friends are fine if I have different views on Israel, right? It doesn’t mean I have different views about them, but if I don’t like what a government’s doing, including our own government, then that’s okay, right?
TUCKER CARLSON: One of my Jewish friends, former Jewish employee, actually called me this morning, talked to him for like an hour and a half about other stuff, not about Israel, but in the course of the conversation he told me that he had said something to one of his co-workers about Netanyahu. He didn’t like Netanyahu. Whatever. That’s literally, he’s Jewish. “I don’t like Netanyahu.” And that co-worker went to his boss and called him an anti-Semite. What?
THEO VON: That’s crazy.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think there’s that. I also think there’s something else going on, which is sad. I think a lot of what I’m seeing happen to Jewish people, including friends of mine, people I know, is there’s so much yelling about the Nazis and the Holocaust, people are getting really freaked out.
And I’ve had people I have known for decades and love call me, like, “Are you a Nazi?” Dude, it’s me. No, I’m totally anti-Nazi. What are you even talking about? “Why? Everyone says you’re a Nazi.” This happened to me at dinner recently. Won’t even tell. He’s a well-known person.
THEO VON: If you were Nazi, you would have a tank or something. But also, you would not be in loafers.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I might be wearing my Turkish grounding shoes.
THEO VON: You’re Turkeyish.
TUCKER CARLSON: And by the way, they leave a little green spot on the bottom of your foot. That means you’re winning. That means you’re grounded to the earth. But no, I think it’s making people really paranoid and afraid. And I think that that’s on purpose. And terrified people are really easy to control.
Fear and Control After 9/11
That’s what happened to us after 9/11. “The Muslims are coming. 19 Arabs with box cutters.” I know. I’m going to say that. I said to one of my kids last night at dinner, I was like, “I’m making a pledge to you as your father that I’m going to use the phrase ‘Arabs with box cutters’ every single day.” And I’m going to laugh every time I say it because it amuses the f* out of me.
THEO VON: Hell yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Just give me a conversation. Someone’s be like, “Oh,” and I’m like, “Arabs with box cutters.”
Anyway, all of us believed the Arabs with box cutters thing for all those years. And it made us so freaking freaked out and afraid and threatened that we went along with all the stuff that was really bad for us and the world.
And I think that a similar op actually is underway in the United States with Jewish people. And it’s like, “You’re about to get killed.” It’s like, no. I mean, maybe. I think there are anti-Semites in America for sure. And there are crazy people for sure. There are always threats. But in general, I’ve never met anyone who hates all Jews or what? That’s all fake, but it’s scaring the s* out of people.
Again, I have friends, good friends, who are like, “I can’t believe you’re a Nazi now.”
THEO VON: That’s crazy, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: I know. It’s sad, actually. It’s awful.
THEO VON: Well, I think anytime you find somebody, and I thought this in my own world, it’s like, if you start thinking, “Oh, this race or this ethnicity or this group should be the one,” then that is a trap. That is a danger.
TUCKER CARLSON: That is an evil right there.
THEO VON: That is an evil thought or feeling, because it’s just, it’s not possible. It’s not real. So you have to recognize that that kind of thought is just a trap, that it’s very scary.
TUCKER CARLSON: Agree. And that is the trap they’re luring you into when they call you names. They are trying to make you into the hater they claim you are. And once you become that, you’re destroyed.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: And obsessing over other races being bad, that’s how you become a crazy person.
Media-Created Division
THEO VON: Well, that’s the kind of stuff that the news has done over here. So when you start to think about all the infighting that the news has created over the years and led us down all these rabbit holes, it’s like, what the f* were we doing?
TUCKER CARLSON: The whole point was to make you hate each other. Divide and conquer. 100%. Arabs with box cutters.
THEO VON: Can I just say blacks versus drones.
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude, there’s the box cutters. Okay. All right. Arabs and box cutters. Okay.
THEO VON: Is there? I know. When you think about that, hilarious.
TUCKER CARLSON: When you say it, I spent 20 years being like, “The threat is, Theo, the threat is Arabs with box cutters. They could be anywhere.” Shut up.
THEO VON: I don’t know. If it’s pretty masterful how things have gone on, but it’s just, it’s pretty wild.
Breaking Through the Illusion
TUCKER CARLSON: You will punch through. I can tell that you’re in a stage that I was literally last week. And then you get through it, and you’re like, it’s okay. It’s totally okay. I was an idiot for believing that stuff in the first place. It’s my fault, actually.
If I fell for, read Jeffrey Epstein’s emails, and you will realize, if I fell for the idea that he was some diabolical mastermind and not just some thug from Staten Island or Coney Island, that was on me. Then you break through and you’re like, of course it’s fake. It was never real.
You really think that with the world at stake, three zip codes in Pennsylvania are choosing the president? Okay, yeah. All right. No, so no, of course it’s fake. Shame on me for believing it. But now, all the things that are real: God, people you love, the truth. It’s like, there’s so much to be happy about. Actually, you don’t have to.
They want you to be totally freaked out. They are the ones who wrote this horror movie, right? “Bang. What was that noise? Holy s*. Is there something under the bed?”
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: And you look under the bed and you realize it’s actually, there are tons of monsters under the bed. But they’re kind of lame monsters. They’re like Jeffrey Epstein monsters. They’re not that scary. Really. I’m not afraid of you, bh. And then the second you say that, you’re like, “Oh, I’m not afraid of anything.” Actually, look under the bed. Yes, there are monsters. No, they probably can’t kill you unless you bh out and let them.
Candace and the French Controversy
THEO VON: Yeah. What do you feel about what’s going on with Candace right now? Do you feel like the issues with the French are realistic? When she went down that wiener thing, I was like, who cares if that lady has a wiener or whatever. Oh, Ms. Macron or whatever.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, the President.
THEO VON: Who cares if somebody has a dang wiener or whatever? Some lady has a wiener.
TUCKER CARLSON: It would be shocking if you didn’t know it and you found it by accident. I do think that.
THEO VON: Oh, yeah. If you were looking for something in your purse and then a damn wiener was in there.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, but I mean, if you were, I don’t know, in a cab or something and reached over and you found what you didn’t expect, you know, like in Bangkok or something.
THEO VON: If I’m harassed, show that thing off. Every now and then I’d pop that out at a party.
Yeah, I would do that ring game. I would kind of, I’d have that ring game, and just hang it from my chin and then have people try to hook it on there.
TUCKER CARLSON: You need your roommate with a Viagra supply.
THEO VON: Oh, dude, would you know my name, dude? They’d make me play it three or four times.
TUCKER CARLSON: I was in bed with my wife and you showed up in the dark with an acoustic guitar playing Eric Clapton. That would scare, first of all, I would, I’m not violent, but I’d blow you away because I have a sidearm in my bed. I would, all of a sudden, you’re in bed with your girl and all this, someone’s Eric Clapton on acoustic guitar. It’s a nightmare. You’re like the incubus. I’d be like, “Stop right there.” And you’d be like, “God.”
The Tears in Heaven Story
THEO VON: If I saw you. Well, the crazy thing, it’s the saddest song. I didn’t even know what the song was about. I just learned it. And then in hindsight, when I realized I’m in there just playing for a bunch of geeked up seniors who were hopped up on wiener uppers. And I was over there playing a sad song. Isn’t it about his son dying? Yeah, it’s a beautiful.
TUCKER CARLSON: But.
THEO VON: Yes, it is. And it’s very sad. It’s heartbreaking. I don’t know what I was doing.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not a sexy song, though. And I wonder how that mixes with Viagra. I don’t see them, of all the Viagra songs, “Paradise by the Dashboard Light” or something, you know? Yeah.
THEO VON: Well, I totally only knew three.
TUCKER CARLSON: “Took Me All Night Long.”
THEO VON: Didn’t have it.
TUCKER CARLSON: But “Tears in Heaven.” I mean, that’s a boner killer.
THEO VON: No, I thought so.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s like a dirge.
THEO VON: They’d been drinking orange juice and vodkas, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: I, I.
THEO VON: The best thing I could do was that. And then I had that, “Well, Billy Ray was a preacher’s son.”
TUCKER CARLSON: And that was a little Dusty Springfield, ladies and gentlemen. That’s kind of a hot song in a way.
THEO VON: That was a little too, you know.
TUCKER CARLSON: She was a British lesbian.
THEO VON: Dusty Springfield.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. When you hear that, she’s like, she’s a black woman.
THEO VON: Wait, I thought it was.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, no. She was a little white girl lesbian. That was her only hit, I think, ever. That’s Dusty Springfield. And she died young. She died in.
THEO VON: Who remade the song at 60?
TUCKER CARLSON: No, that’s the original. Hers.
THEO VON: Oh, it is.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think people have covered it, but the one that you know.
THEO VON: I thought, what’s her name? Redid it.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m sure many have covered it, but the one that you hear still is.
THEO VON: Hers is hers. Wow.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. Aretha, I guess Aretha did.
THEO VON: Oh, Jaw Jaw Stone.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s a testament to the durability of her version that that’s still the one.
THEO VON: Amen.
TUCKER CARLSON: Amen. Written the year I was born, I think.
Pastors and Public Statements
THEO VON: Yeah. I just wonder, is there.
TUCKER CARLSON: You got me spun up with the preacher stuff.
THEO VON: Did I really?
TUCKER CARLSON: You did.
THEO VON: Well, who said stuff like, I’m trying to, Judah Smith. He’s a pastor that I know. Did he speak up about it? Do you know him?
TUCKER CARLSON: Is he here? Is he a good guy?
THEO VON: Oh, yeah. Dude is awesome. He’s a great pastor. I just wonder if some of the bigger pastors spoke up about it or not. I don’t know. And then that’s when you start to think, well, am I wrong for, you know, what am I feeling? What’s going on?
There’s no public record of Judah Smith, the pastor and author, speaking publicly about the conflict in Gaza. However, there’s a different Judah Smith, a medical student who spoke about the impact of mystical strike on Soroka Medical Center in Israel, which may be a good source of confusion. No public statements on the Gaza conflict from the pastor and lead at Church Home.
But yeah, I mean, people have their different views, you know, and those are, I think it’s just stuff I’m curious about and I don’t know enough about the Bible.
The Charlie Kirk Assassination Investigation
TUCKER CARLSON: Sometimes I think we have to say that Jesus is against killing innocents. I just think we have to say that because what’s. I mean, if we can’t say that, then what can we say? This is not a religion of violence. It’s just not.
THEO VON: What do you feel like about Candace’s the assassination attempt? Do you find there was a reality in that?
TUCKER CARLSON: I think that. I don’t understand it. I love. I just want to say again, I love Candace. She’s coming tonight and her kids are the best. I’ve known her a long time.
THEO VON: Yeah, I go over there, just like, see her kids sometimes. I know that’s kind of weird or whatever, but it’s not weird. I don’t have any children or wife or anything. So I go over there and yeah, her kids are like, as full of life as could be. And they’re all mixed kids. And that’s awesome. Then, like, pretty kids. Oh, dude, she has beautiful kids. And her and Georgia just funny, man.
TUCKER CARLSON: I totally agree. And, but so I would say of the assassination, you know, first of all, I knew him while he was right at my house right before he was killed. So I feel emotional about it still.
THEO VON: Who was Charlie Kirk?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yep.
THEO VON: Oh, really?
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah. And I love his wife and know his wife well, and so I feel emotional about it. So, you know, I just haven’t wanted everything to do with it. But I will say a couple of things. I don’t understand the official story at all.
THEO VON: All the assassination.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t. I don’t understand it. And I want to make sure that there is a truly rigorous and honest federal investigation of it. And I’m definitely concerned about that. I think that one of the. I don’t know many of the details, but I know that recently Candice said that Egyptian registered aircraft were following Erica Kirk, Charlie’s widow, around for a number of years in different places in the world.
That’s one of the weirdest things I’ve ever heard. And I just want to say that that is factually true. That’s true. So that’s the one data point that I happen to know is true. What does that mean? I have literally no idea. I can’t even guess. But that’s very, very, very strange.
THEO VON: And what is Egyptian? Egypt could mean aircraft from Egypt, who knows?
TUCKER CARLSON: I think that they were registered in Egypt.
THEO VON: Got it.
TUCKER CARLSON: And so, but that fact is true. So I, that enough. And it also her claim that, you know, there were kind of a disproportionately large number of foreign registered cell phones at the event. That’s also true. So what does that add up to? I don’t know.
But it means that, you know, the FBI has a moral and legal obligation to look in every direction and to be open minded as you would in any investigation. In journalism, in science, it’s all the same process. I don’t know the answer. And I’m going to sift through everything as open mindedly as I can, as honestly as I can, to get to what the truth is.
That’s again, that’s science, that’s law enforcement, that’s journalism. It’s all the same. That’s justice. And I just want to make sure that is happening. And I just don’t have a ton of confidence in the FBI or the men who run it. And I’m not saying that out of ignorance at all.
THEO VON: That’s a scary part too.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not alleging anything. I’m just saying I think it’s really important that we have that.
THEO VON: Yeah. And also, I mean, I never wanted.
TUCKER CARLSON: Leaders of the FBI are on Twitter, like, what?
THEO VON: Oh, the one. Do you see the video that Tim Dillon did about the.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, because it makes me too mad.
The Erosion of Trust in Institutions
THEO VON: But no, I agree. It’s like. And also, here’s the weird thing. I never wanted to think about any of this shit. I never wanted to think that our FBI didn’t care about us or that our CIA was compromised or that we couldn’t. You can’t even call the police department without thinking that it goes directly to some other foreign lobby. Right?
So it’s weird that if people point fingers, you’re like, I never. I just wanted to be. I just wanted to try my best and f*ing be alive. You know what I’m saying? You’re not a weirdo just because your brain is trying to figure things out. That’s a brain’s job, is to try to figure things out, is to try to make organization of things. Right?
So it’s just so crazy that people who are trying to figure things out are getting ostracized, you know, whether they’re right or wrong or something. At least they’re trying to have some semblance of curiosity, which is really.
TUCKER CARLSON: Just kind of social story. Describing the murder of your friend doesn’t make sense. And you find yourself yelling at a podcaster for coming up with other theories. You’re barking in the wrong direction. Your anger should be focused on the people whose job it is legally, constitutionally, to get to the answer. And there’s very little pressure on them. I notice a great deal of pressure on Candace Owens.
And by the way, I’ve said this to a bunch of people, you know, off the record, you know, people I’m just talking to. It’s like, you know, what Candace is saying is clearly causing a lot of turmoil. Is it true or not? I can’t assess it. I’m not the FBI. I’m a freaking podcaster.
But I do know how the system works, and it’s really simple. The FBI has this case, and of course, the state of Utah. It’s their job to not only find out what happened, present it to the public in a way that restores some confidence that you can have justice in this country to be a functioning law enforcement.
I don’t have confidence in that because there’s a lot of evidence that we don’t have that. So restore confidence by being honest and telling a story that makes sense. So why, if they don’t do that, and they haven’t done that, they have not done that. How can you be mad at Candace Owens or anyone else for filling a vacuum that they left?
Yeah, well, Candace is okay. No, the people with the authority are the ones responsible, and they’re the ones who should be held responsible when there’s a failure. Not some podcaster, not me, not you, not Candace. The people whose job it is talk about. And it’s always that. It’s always like, you know, you say, well, I don’t know why Israel’s committing genocide. And God’s like, shut up, Theobald. It’s like, shouldn’t you be mad at Israel for committing the genocide? No.
THEO VON: Yeah. Or shouldn’t. Why am I the one even asking about it? Dude, I’m just a curious ftard, dude. You know what I’m saying? I’m trying my best, but f, dude.
TUCKER CARLSON: I couldn’t agree more.
THEO VON: You know, I’m a guy who lived with a 66 year old man to f*ing chirp boner pills off of him.
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude, with respect, like a lot of these criminal investigations, your story doesn’t make sense. Dude, so you play tennis.
THEO VON: He was a 4.0, right?
TUCKER CARLSON: That makes him sound kind of wholesome and normal. He was my buddy’s dad. You live with him so you can get free boner pills. Then he invites you into his bedroom in the dark with his grand girl to play Eric Clapton songs on an acoustic guitar. And you don’t think there’s anything kind of freaky about that at all?
THEO VON: I think that’s the most normal thing we’ve talked about all episode.
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, you’re probably right.
THEO VON: Really honest.
TUCKER CARLSON: To put it in context. Yes.
What Doesn’t Add Up About the Investigation
THEO VON: I want to get you out of here soon because we want to go to your party tonight. What is one of the things about the Charlie Kirk assassination that rubs you the wrongest, do you feel like about.
TUCKER CARLSON: The investigation into it?
THEO VON: Yeah, I mean it’s the whole thing with the kid and the images and they see him at a Dairy Queen. Some of the. It’s just. It’s all so confusing. You can’t decide what to believe. But what do you. But also the fact that it doesn’t feel like there’s any presentation from the FBI or something about reality. So it feels like it’s just. It’s Internet sluice filling in all the pieces. What do you think?
TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve called directly to say that just as an American, as a friend of Charlie’s, who is interested in seeing justice and is interested in preserving our system beyond this year. If you want the system to continue, you have to satisfy people that the system is real. And if they’re convinced that it’s not real at some point they’ll overthrow it. That’s just going to happen. Okay.
Oh, but Mamdani. Yeah. How do you think we got Mamdani? Or. And you think Mamdani’s radical? The dude went to Bowdoin. It could be a lot more radical than that. And we’re going to get that.
THEO VON: They have a good sailing team there.
TUCKER CARLSON: Do they? Yeah. Bowdoin.
THEO VON: I thought it was Bowdoin. But it’s not.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, it’s Bowdoin. Known really for sodomy, but also sailing. I didn’t know.
THEO VON: Oh, I didn’t know that. Huh.
TUCKER CARLSON: Enthusiastic. Actually. They’ve got one of the top rated varsity sodomy teams in the country.
THEO VON: Hard to starboard, zen users.
TUCKER CARLSON: But anyway, here’s what I am concerned about a lot of things. One, he acted alone. Tell me how that worked. I don’t. You know, none of us really act alone.
THEO VON: It’s hard to go anywhere by yourself too. Thank you.
TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. You acted totally alone. Okay. You’re going to have to prove that to me. It’s totally possible. Anything is possible. Weird things have happened. We’ll continue to. But if you’re. That’s not my default assumption and it shouldn’t be yours. And their default assumption was we acted alone. Really? Why do you think that?
What about life suggests that people typically act alone? When was the last time you acted alone in anything? I don’t go, you know. Right. So. We know that people had foreknowledge of this because they posted about it on X and said Charlie Kirk is going to be killed on this date. And he was.
THEO VON: Is that true?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, it’s true.
THEO VON: Were they just guessing? Was it a guessing thing where every day that people maybe.
TUCKER CARLSON: Maybe. Had those people been interviewed, have they been hauled into FBI HQ and had a long conversation with how they knew that? Like, let’s get really specific. Why did you post that? Who have you talked to?
If I were doing this investigation because I spent my whole life doing non criminal investigations called journalism. What do we know is true? How do we find out? Call everybody, be open minded. It’s a very. It’s the same process. If I was doing this investigation, they would be at the very top of the list.
We know because we’ve got public postings on Twitter that people know. Just like 9/11. We know people bet against American Airlines and the banks that were in the World Trade Centers. They sorted those stocks. Those people clearly had foreknowledge of 9/11. Who were those people? We still don’t know. So I would start there, but.
THEO VON: So you’re saying that just the fact that there could possibly be some foreknowledge to be invested.
TUCKER CARLSON: There was foreknowledge because they were. I saw the tweets and so they were. I saw at least two that said, you know, everything’s going to change when Charlie Kirk gets to the college in Utah.
THEO VON: Okay.
TUCKER CARLSON: So those people. I’m not saying they’re part of a conspiracy, but they have. There’s evidence that they had foreknowledge. Okay, so that’s where you begin. And then I could go on, like, tell me how this guy who seemed normal became a radical, trans furry murderer. It’s not enough to tell me, oh, trans. I’m not pro trans, by the way.
THEO VON: But was that the guy or his boyfriend?
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, exactly. Exactly. Right. Tell me how this guy became so radicalized that he murdered a stranger. I’m not saying it didn’t happen. I’m saying I want an explanation for how it happened. Why wouldn’t I?
THEO VON: I agree.
The Difficulty of Getting Straight Answers
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, we can’t talk about that because it’ll prejudice the jury pool. Really? You’ve told the world that you have both a confession from him in his text to his boyfriend and the murder weapon with his fingerprints on it. I think you got a pretty solid case. So why is it so difficult to just explain? Dude, 9/11, the rubble was still smoldering whenever I was on television on 9/11. So I remember this very well. People instantly appeared. This is Islamic radicalism. Here’s where it comes from. We’re going to invite this guy in from Columbia who’s just written a book about it, and the whole explanation was ready to go.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: There’s no even attempt, which is both good and bad, but there’s no attempt to explain how this happened. That’s the key question. We all want to know. Yes, I know Charlie Kirk just got, was murdered by gunshot. Got it. Saw it. Why? And they never want to tell you.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Was the kid on SSRI? Shut up. Are you a Scientologist? They immediately start name calling you. Oh, you Candace Owens now? No.
THEO VON: Yeah, but if you’re just a curious person who wants to know why your friend got killed.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s what I am. That’s what I am.
THEO VON: That’s what I’m saying. Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s just—
THEO VON: It’s a human person.
Defending Candace Owens
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s what Candace is. Maybe so. I have said from the beginning, if you don’t like what Candace Owens is saying, why don’t you call her and offer a more plausible explanation for what happened? Oh, she’s bad. She’s bad. Okay. I mean, I like her a lot. I don’t think she’s bad, but I love her, actually. But let’s just stipulate she’s bad. But why wouldn’t you do that?
THEO VON: Because I don’t agree with some of the stuff that, the rabbit hole she goes down, but—
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t even know.
THEO VON: But I like the fact that she likes to dig in the garden. So it’s like, I like the fact that she’s curious and that obviously if people weren’t resonating with what she’s doing, then nobody would be paying attention. But you know how many places I go, people come up to me and be like, and I don’t think they want to say something to me. They’ll be like, I love Candace.
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude, I was in Oslo this summer.
THEO VON: Salmon White Oslo. Some people call it White Oslo as well.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not very white anymore.
THEO VON: It isn’t?
TUCKER CARLSON: Nope.
THEO VON: Ah, slow.
TUCKER CARLSON: But anyway, I’m in Oslo, Norway, and just for one night, we were fishing, and we go to Oslo to fly out. And I’m walking down the street with one of my daughters, “Tucker Carlson.” I was like, shit, I’m going to get yelled at in Oslo. This guy runs up to me. “Tucker Carlson.” Yes. “You know Candace Owens?” I was like, yeah. He goes, “Tell her I love her.” And I texted Candace. I was like, that is fame when people come up to you just because of the reflected glory of someone, you know.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: So why do people like Candace so much? She’s an amazing broadcaster.
THEO VON: Yes.
TUCKER CARLSON: Because they sense in her, she might be wrong. Is she lying to me? Not on purpose. They sense the purity of her intent. That’s the truth. And I can say, as someone who’s dealt with government officials my whole life, I’m not vouching for everything Candace claims. I don’t even know a lot of what she claims because I’m working on their stuff. And it makes me sad also.
But the point is, do I trust Candace more than I trust your average DOJ official? Are you joking? It’s not even close, dude. It’s not even close. It’s not even close. We can all be wrong. But who do I trust to try to tell the truth more? Candace or your average DOJ official? Opposite ends of the spectrum. I’ll just say that.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Do you feel that?
A Scary Time for Information
THEO VON: Scary time? Yeah, it’s a scary time. It’s like, I remember when you were interviewing Putin.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: I remember thinking, we may get some real information here, which is kind of a crazy. And I’ll just admit that I’ll be like, dude, we might really get some information here. Instead of all this BS like, Russia was involved in making all these ads and all this thing, we might really get some information here.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, well, you were right.
THEO VON: It’s 2:58. You came at noon, right? Yeah. We got to get you out of here.
TUCKER CARLSON: Damn, that sucks.
THEO VON: There goes your nap, though.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t nap.
THEO VON: You don’t?
TUCKER CARLSON: No, I’m, dude, I’m flying the Middle East tomorrow. That’s like 12 hours a piece for me. I’m just going to eat hummus.
THEO VON: Are you flying on a commercial?
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m flying commercial. They have the—
THEO VON: The best.
TUCKER CARLSON: They have the best airline, so I know that makes me an Islamist. I know I’m responsible for Danny Pearl’s murder for saying that, but Qatar Airways is the best airline. It just is. I’ve flown in all airlines.
THEO VON: Some of the best people over there. I had a great time over there.
TUCKER CARLSON: Totally agree.
THEO VON: And what I like about their country is they keep shit in line. There’s not a lot of f*ing BS over there.
TUCKER CARLSON: When you can say what you want, it’s more, it’s definitely more restrained in some ways.
THEO VON: Yeah, we could take it as well. Do you remember you couldn’t even say it the other day?
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I could say it because I’m American, but you’re not allowed to spray paint public buildings there. Sorry, you can’t on the sidewalk. You’re not allowed to have sex in an ATM vestibule or smoke meth in front of other people’s houses, but you can say what you believe. So there’s a constriction of freedom in some ways, for sure.
The F-Word Debate
THEO VON: Well, especially the other day. So my gay friend calls me up. He’s like, dude. He wanted me to say it to his friends on Zoom, right?
TUCKER CARLSON: And I’m like, what’s your life like? Dude, bro.
THEO VON: I’m like, dude, I’m not saying, I just woke up.
TUCKER CARLSON: Can we just get, you just said, my friend called me the other day, and he wants me to say f*it to his friends on Zoom.
THEO VON: Yeah. He thought it would be cool.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s an amazing sentence.
THEO VON: Yeah. But it’s like, people are trying to say, well, you can’t say this and that. But it’s like, what do you want me to do in that instance? It’s like, my gay buddy calls me up, and he’s like, dude, a couple of my boys are over here. Trent’s over here. Say it for us. And I’m like, dude, you know, and I just woken up, right? I’m like, I’m not saying it. If I just woke up, dude, that—
TUCKER CARLSON: You got to ease into f*ing. It can’t, you can’t just go cold into it. I’ve had this exact problem.
THEO VON: I’m not having my eyes open for—
TUCKER CARLSON: My wife will say that. She’ll wake me up, say. I’ll be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I need a cup of coffee first.
THEO VON: Definitely do. At least let me put on some sneakers. But that was, it’s like, and then, and also the fact that Piers Morgan wouldn’t say it. It’s a British word. You guys started the word.
TUCKER CARLSON: I know. It’s not like I asked him to say, I almost did, because I think that’s allowed. You can say that.
THEO VON: Well, that’s fair.
TUCKER CARLSON: But word. As they say where I live.
THEO VON: They’re both his words, dude. And I understand not yelling it at somebody that’s gay or say you open your door and two guys are blowing each other in your front yard or something. I don’t know.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s when you don’t say it.
THEO VON: That’s when you don’t say.
TUCKER CARLSON: Because you don’t call a fat girl fat. Well, yeah, you joke about the skinny girl being fat. Because it’s a joke. Yeah.
THEO VON: You don’t yell fat. You’re like, hey, fellas, hit the road. Right? It’s like.
TUCKER CARLSON: Right.
THEO VON: Exactly, dude.
The 7-Eleven Story
THEO VON: One time I walked behind a 7-Eleven. There’s a couple gay dudes back there. One of them was at least gay, and they were, one of them was blowing one of them. Right. So at least—
TUCKER CARLSON: So who’s gay? I don’t know. Sorry.
THEO VON: Who is gay? But yeah, I didn’t ask. Right. At that point.
TUCKER CARLSON: No.
THEO VON: But I was like, guys, come on. And they were, and one of them got into a car that had those, it was like a Honda Civic that had those, it was around the holidays. That had those antler ears out the side.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
THEO VON: And I was like, that’s—
TUCKER CARLSON: Was that the guy blowing or getting blown?
THEO VON: I don’t know which one it was. But that was the—
TUCKER CARLSON: It matters. It matters.
THEO VON: But that was the—
TUCKER CARLSON: It—
THEO VON: I think that was the guy.
TUCKER CARLSON: But the antler ears.
THEO VON: Yeah, but that was the gay guy. Yeah. So anyway, I don’t even know why.
TUCKER CARLSON: Deductive reasoning.
THEO VON: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Dude, you are the Sherlock Holmes of gay 7-Eleven.
Pay-Per-View Profanity
THEO VON: But my buddy the other day, it’s like, now I’m the bad guy to a gay friend because I won’t say that. Because I won’t say that over to his Zoom at work, and I’m like, dude, I’m not. That’s bad.
TUCKER CARLSON: You got a buddy calls. All he needs you to do is say on Zoom. That’s it. He’s not asking for, it’s not a loan. He’s not asking to bail him out of jail. He just wants you to just say f*it on Zoom. And you’re like, no. The one thing you want, I deny you, dude.
THEO VON: And I’ve said this before. I think that a lot of people like gay people, they should auction off the word somebody can say at one time. At a certain time, everybody can buy a Zoom pass to watch the person say it. Say who’s a good one? Burt Reynolds is going to say it tonight, right? He’s going to say it tonight at midnight, and everybody can buy a pass to watch him say it. Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: I love that, but it doesn’t, I’m not insecure about this because I’ve worked around and loved gays my whole life.
THEO VON: Yeah. None of my gay friends are going to be upset about this.
TUCKER CARLSON: But you know what? They are the offenders. It’s like, they’re like rappers with the N-word. It’s insane. You work with gay men.
THEO VON: Yeah. I can’t even. Yeah. The people that say, but, dude, I think it’s the same with the N-word. They should auction it off. Where people could say, if Angelina Jolie saying the N-word tonight at 10:15, people are going to pay to watch. And then the money goes towards black causes and black culture.
TUCKER CARLSON: Pay-per-view profanity.
THEO VON: Yep.
TUCKER CARLSON: I love that. You know, why waste it, right? No, you’re totally right.
THEO VON: You know how many people, she gets 30 minutes. You can say anywhere in there. She can do a little bit. She can read a book and drop it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Angelina Jolie saying the N-word. I might actually pay the $25.99 to see that dude.
THEO VON: Who wouldn’t know? Actually, I know. That’s what I’m saying. But then you’re making so naughty. That’s like, I agree. But you’re making money for your clients.
TUCKER CARLSON: Hate crimes. Only fans.
THEO VON: Oh, kind of. Yeah. But I think.
TUCKER CARLSON: Can you do that? I’ve never been an only fans, obviously, but could you get an only fans would be like, say the N word.
THEO VON: I mean, I think you could do it, dude. If you could get George Washington’s great grandson to say it. What about that? Tonight we got George Washington’s great grandson. Bring him up. We got George Washington’s great grandson tonight at probably he’s about. I bet he’s pretty old.
TUCKER CARLSON: So at 7:15 p.m. he’s like about 150 years old, actually.
THEO VON: Sorry. Oh, George Washington didn’t have any children.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s only the Custises. It’s through his wife’s family. No, he didn’t.
THEO VON: But if his great, great grandson is saying, I’m going to tap in, there’s no way if it’s $6.99 to hear him say it at 7:15.
TUCKER CARLSON: If it was Thomas Jefferson’s black great, great, great, great grandson. Right, exactly.
THEO VON: I wouldn’t as much.
TUCKER CARLSON: There’s no charge there.
THEO VON: But it’s still. If it’s a little Asian guy or whatever who’s been in a coma, they know he’s waking up at 3, at 4:30, he’s going to say it and mispronounces it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I would, I would pay for that. Ah, yeah. Crazy.
Staying Above the Negativity
THEO VON: They might have taken that part out anyway. Tucker, how do we stay like. I’m sure there’s moments where you’ve gotten too far down the well. Like, if you look at some of this stuff too much, it gets really. It can get pretty negative.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m out of the well. I’m totally out of the well. I’ve like, I’m above the clouds and it’s always sunny there. It’s like I feel so much better because I just concluded that everything you suspect is true. It’s always been true. It was true in Rome, it was true in every period in history, and it’s true now.
And the only thing that’s changed is we lied to ourselves about it. But now, once you realize, yeah, it’s all true, I don’t need any more evidence. I got it. I figured it out.
And the good things in life are still amazing. And you can make a difference by telling the truth. And when you do, you become stronger in some supernatural way. And there’s just so much beauty and joy in life. I’m not going to get bogged down in all the hatred. I’m not going to take orders from Mark Levin and become a Nazi just because he calls me one. No, sorry. Playing your games.
THEO VON: Oh, for sure. It’s like people say stuff on the Internet. It’s like, whatever, dude, but pivot against it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Be like, yeah, I, yeah, people will.
THEO VON: Make fun of your enemy stuff or do certain things. It’s like, I don’t care about it that much. I don’t care. Really? What, you call me that much? I mean, I already know things that I am, you know, I’m not great, that’s for sure.
TUCKER CARLSON: But they never call you the things you really are.
He lived. He lived with a dude who gave him free Viagra.
THEO VON: I had to steal it. I had to sneak in there and eat some of it at night. Tucker Carlson, man. Thanks so much for your time. Dude, do you think we’re going to get in trouble for any of this?
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m already. I was already voted Nazi of the Week by BB or something. I don’t. I don’t care. It’s a lie. And if you spend your life, you.
THEO VON: You don’t seem like a Nazi to me at all, man.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, not a Nazi. You know, and I’m not going to become one.
THEO VON: Yeah, dude, I would notice if you started naziing a little bit.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, you know, it’s a little too rigid for me. Just temperamentally. Also, I don’t like tight clothing at all. I can’t stand to be ordered.
THEO VON: You look good in green, though.
Look, before you leave, Tucker, I just want to play this for you.
TUCKER CARLSON: Do you mind? I’m getting woodless in the book. It’s just, you know, I’m thinking, like, maybe I do invite Theo over. Just middle of the night in bed with my wife. It’s totally dark. All of a sudden, they hear the notes.
THEO VON: Well, it’s because I couldn’t make rent. Sometimes I think he was thinking of any way I could help.
TUCKER CARLSON: I get it. You’re young. You needed the money. I’ve heard this before.
THEO VON: Hey, dude, those erections, those are caused by Alps. You know that, don’t you?
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, they are the pouch for your mouth.
Closing
THEO VON: Tucker Carlson, thanks so much, man. And thanks for inviting me to your get together. I’m excited about it. And I’ll see you later on. Anything else you wanted to talk about?
TUCKER CARLSON: Nope.
THEO VON: All right. Appreciate you, brother.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’re the best.
THEO VON: You, too, man.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yep.
THEO VON: Stay safe.
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