Read the full transcript of a conversation between Fox’s Rob Schmitt and DOGE’s Elon Musk at Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) on February 20, 2025.
Listen to the audio version here:
TRANSCRIPT:
ROB SCHMITT: A little stage prop.
ELON MUSK: I love you guys too.
ROB SCHMITT: Thanks guys. Have a seat.
ELON MUSK: So, uh… That was something. I am become meme. Yeah, pretty much. I’m just, I’m living the meme. It’s like, there’s living the dream and there’s living the meme. And that’s pretty much what’s happening, you know. You’re like…
ROB SCHMITT: I think you’re bigger…
ELON MUSK: I mean, DOGE started out as a meme. Think about it. And now it’s real.
ELON MUSK: Isn’t that crazy? It is, it is crazy.
ROB SCHMITT: But it’s cool. Let me ask you this. A year ago, if someone had told you you’d be at CPAC and working with the president to absolutely shred the government, the swamp, whatever you want to call it, would you have ever believed that?
ELON MUSK: No.
ROB SCHMITT: No? Me neither.
ELON MUSK: But it’s cool. This is awesome. And I just want to say, you know, thanks for your support. I mean… You guys were… So, um… I mean, we’re trying to get good things done. But also, like, you know, have a good time doing it. And, uh… You know, and have like a sense of humor. You know?
Comedy and Culture Shift
ELON MUSK: So… Like, I mean, the left wanted to make comedy illegal. You know? Like, you can’t make fun of anything. So then it was like, comedy sucks. It’s like, nothing’s funny. You can’t make fun of anything. It’s like, legalize comedy!
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah! Legalize comedy! And we’ve shifted the entire culture in just the last few months. The whole culture of the country has shifted dramatically just because of that election.
ELON MUSK: Yeah, exactly. You know, freedom of speech, you know, having fun again. It seems like we should have a good time, you know?
ROB SCHMITT: I mean, it’s a great time. Everybody in this place is so excited.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: I mean, when you talk to conservatives, everybody’s happy. And everybody feels this great sense of relief because we were going to hell for about four years. It really felt bad. Especially toward the end. It felt really bad.
ELON MUSK: Yeah, I mean, I thought we were sort of heading for a point of no return, really. You know? And so, that’s why it was so essential that President Trump win the election and that there be a Republican majority in the House and Senate, which, thanks to you, that has been accomplished.
Political Shift
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. I want to ask you, one of the biggest questions I have for you is that you’ve been, you know, politically, you weren’t really on one side or the other for a long time. You’re a businessman. A lot of people, they stay away from it. Now, you’re on a side.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: And you’ve chosen a side. You’re sitting here in a MAGA hat. What’s this? How did that happen? What was the moment?
ELON MUSK: It’s like dark, gothic MAGA.
ROB SCHMITT: That’s a good one. Was there a specific moment? Was there a moment that it all changed?
ELON MUSK: Yeah. When I realized it was a fool. But, no. I guess, yeah. I mean, I don’t know. Yeah. When I realized it was a fool. But, no. I guess, yeah. I mean, I feel like I was politically neutral for quite a while. You know. Leaning a little Democrat.
ROB SCHMITT: How do you go from this to this? How does that happen? Did they go crazy?
ELON MUSK: Yeah. They did go crazy. Yeah. They went crazy.
ROB SCHMITT: No. I mean, the whole campaign.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, the whole cancel culture. And, you know. It’s trying to stop freedom of speech. And, infringe upon, just in general, infringe upon people’s personal freedoms. You know. They just want state control. State control of what you say. They want to, you know, take away your guns. And the reason they want to take away your guns, is because there’s nothing you can do to oppose them.
So, it’s sort of like, you know, I just like, we just need to restore the fundamental elements of what made America great. Which is freedom and opportunity.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. We’re seeing a lot of these freedoms disappearing in the West. It’s not just about America. We’re watching, we’re all watching Europe and knowing that they’re about 50, 100 years ahead of us. Right? Because they got an early start. And we’re watching how they’re devolving.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: And you’re trying to save it from happening here.
ELON MUSK: No, I mean, in Europe they put people in prison for memes. Yeah. You know. I’m like, that’s insane. And they’re collapsing.
ROB SCHMITT: I mean, this society is, it’s a collapsing society. It feels that way. It feels like. France was nicer 50 years ago than it is today.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: I don’t think you can question that.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. I mean, really. Thanks. I’ll be sure. Um, I mean, I really, I really just wanted to do useful things like, you know, basically build products, you know, provide products and services that are, that are good. And, uh, that, that, that wasn’t really like that interested in being political. Um, it just like there was at a certain point, no choice.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. Can I, can I ask you what, on the same side of that coin, what’s it like from going neutral to being vilified, largely vilified by the media?
ELON MUSK: What? No. Really?
ROB SCHMITT: I mean, turn on some of these channels, brother.
I mean, they’re angry. Does it bother you at all?
ELON MUSK: I mean, when they’re chanting for my death, I suppose that’s a little, you know, not good. I mean, like the song’s not even that good and that’s like, like to call that a death chant. That’s nothing. Please. They’ve been singing a lot lately. It’s not even good music.
ROB SCHMITT: There’s a lot of music lately. It’s not good music either.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
Government Waste and Media Bias
ROB SCHMITT: Um, I would say that there, you know, watching what you’re doing with DOGE is just that people love it.
I mean, I, I’ve always looked at the government and I’ve, I’ve always looked at the government. I’ve seen this big machine that, and you just, you know, that they waste because they don’t care. They don’t care. There’s more money coming.
They don’t care. You’re cutting all this out. Everybody in this country knows that the government is full of waste, fraud, and abuse, and you’re doing the work and the Americans love it. Watching their reaction politically to this. I can’t believe how bad they are at responding to this. I don’t know how you’re going to sit there and, and scream and complain because they’re cutting waste out of the government and try to win another election. How do you try to win them?
ELON MUSK: Well, at this point, I’m like, I’m not sure how much of the left is even real. How much was propped up by our money? You know?
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. Like literally, you see like these, these sort of fake rallies where there’s like hardly any, any people and the media will like frame it and like, you know, get all six people, you know, in the frame, but it’s like, nobody else is there. Like just, it’s, it doesn’t have popular support.
But, but, but there’s, but, but then you, then you, you learn that like there’s hundreds of billions of dollars going to these so-called NGOs, uh, that, that, that, and it’s your tax dollars that are funding things that are fundamentally anti-American.
ROB SCHMITT: And they’re propping up their narratives.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: A lot of that government money has been propping up a left that I don’t think is as strong as they made it seem.
ELON MUSK: In fact, a massive amount of, of your tax dollars is going to legacy media companies.
ROB SCHMITT: Yes.
ELON MUSK: Uh, directly from the, from, from the government. The government wants to take over media.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: It’s terrible. That’s why we have X.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. And that’s, that’s why you spent $44 billion. I mean, that’s a lot of money. I mean.
ELON MUSK: More than it was probably worth, but it had, there was a message. Freedom is priceless.
ROB SCHMITT: Priceless. Yeah. It’s probably one of the most important investments this country’s ever seen. If you got to protect the first amendment, it’s not much more important than that.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. I mean, I, I got a lot of criticism and people said, well, that proves he’s a huge idiot from a, you know, like, like, you know, he bought it for whatever, $44 billion and now it’s worth like eight cents. It’s not worth eight cents.
But, but, you know, but, but, but the, yeah, it was, it was essentially to, to, you know, buy freedom of expression. Um, and, uh.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. That’s gone.
ELON MUSK: It’s all over.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. It’s all over.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: It’s into tyrannies really quick after that.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. I mean, like, you know. All the, all the, all the sort of federal money going to media companies is what, what helps explain why the legacy media all says the same thing at the same time.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: Like, isn’t it like, it’s like weird, like you can put them up where it’s like, you know, like when they.
ROB SCHMITT: They’re mouthpieces for. For the state.
ELON MUSK: For the state.
ROB SCHMITT: Yes. And that’s, that’s what we’ve come to know. Um.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. It’s scary. I like that. I like that. I like that. That being where they, where they, because they’re always saying like, the threat to our democracy is that the threat to our, but if you just replace democracy with bureaucracy.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. It makes perfect sense.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. Big threats to the bureaucracy. That’s exactly right.
DOGE Dividend Checks
Let’s talk about, let’s talk about these DOGE dividend checks that everybody’s talking about this week. And I know you tweeted out that you’re going to, has everybody won like a $5,000 check in the mail? It sounds kind of good, right? And, and the best part about it would be knowing where it came from, that that’s five grand that you sent them last week.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. Totally. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s money that’s taken away from, from things that are destructive to the country that, and from organizations that hate you to you. That’s awesome.
ROB SCHMITT: Is it, does it seem like, I mean, have you talked to them?
ELON MUSK: I mean, that’s like glorious. That’s like the spoils of battle, you know?
ROB SCHMITT: I like that. Is there, is there traction on that?
ELON MUSK: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. Yeah. I’ve talked to the president and he’s supportive of that. And so it sounds like, you know, that’s something we’re going to do. As we’re finding savings, that’s going to translate directly to reductions in tax. So.
ROB SCHMITT: I mean, I think they fired 6,000 people at the IRS today. And I think Lutnick said last night that they’re talking about shutting down the IRS. And I think it’s fair. I think people should realize this is, I mean, the amount of money that we said we send Washington like five or six trillion a year, that is such an ungodly amount of money. I mean, what do they say?
Like a trillion seconds is like 30 years or something like that. I mean, that’s how much we send them and they seem to never have enough. There must be a lot you can cut.
ELON MUSK: No, absolutely. People ask me, what’s the most surprising thing that you’ve encountered when you go to DC? You know, we’re in DC. And I said, well, the most surprising thing is the scale of the expenditures and actually how easy it is to, just when you add caring and competence where it was absent before, you can actually save billions of dollars, sometimes in an hour. It’s wild.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. And then they scoff at it and say, oh, a few billion here and there. I mean, the way they’re talking about it, you can see they don’t care. It’s such little money compared to how much they’re used to wasting.
ELON MUSK: That’s what’s really scary.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. No, exactly.
ELON MUSK: But obviously, it just shows that they really lack empathy for the average taxpayer who’s working hard paying taxes. And then they say, oh, a million dollars doesn’t matter. I’m like, I think it rattles a lot of people, you know? So what are you talking about?
ROB SCHMITT: I’d like to have it. Let me ask you a question. I know the president fairly well. I watched him survive two assassination attempts. Had the first one not happened, the second one would have gotten him. Because without those extra guys, they would have never seen that gun poking through the fence at the golf course.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. Isn’t it mind-blowing that this has happened? And by the way, why do we still know nothing about that guy in Butler? What’s going on? But he’s going to get to the bottom of it. The bottom of it.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. There you go. By the way. Confirmed just a couple hours ago.
Security Concerns
ROB SCHMITT: But I saw that the security detail that you had come in is enormous.
ELON MUSK: Well, it’s not that enormous. Maybe it should be bigger. I don’t know.
ROB SCHMITT: It might. I think you could probably afford it. But I mean, how concerned are you about your safety dealing? I mean, you are a wanted man. Are you nervous?
ELON MUSK: Yeah. Look, I’m open to ideas for improving security. I have to tell you. Like, I don’t actually have a death wish, I think. But, you know, it’s not that easy. So, yeah. I mean, but I have, like, I’ve had even, like, people like President Bukele from El Salvador who managed to put in prison, like, I don’t know, 100,000, like, murderous thugs. And he was like, he called me. He’s like, I’m worried about your security. I’m like, you’re worried about my security? I’m like, what?
ROB SCHMITT: Okay. You know. I mean, yeah, talk about guts to do that down there. I mean.
ELON MUSK: Yeah, totally. And survive. Like, I’m like, I was like, how did you put all those thugs in prison without dying? Because it seems like that would have been not easy, you know.
ROB SCHMITT: Well, there’s a, the president has, one of his top attorneys is now investigating, I guess, Chuck Schumer for threats against SCOTUS. A congressman on the Democrat side. They’re saying, you know, basically saying he’s going to bring a war to you, like a fight to you. I mean, the rhetoric, you guys are screwing with things that are not supposed to be messed with. And there’s a lot of people that really don’t want that to happen.
ELON MUSK: Yeah, we’re fighting the matrix big time here.
Fort Knox and Government Waste
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: But it’s got to be done.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. And.
ELON MUSK: It certainly does.
ROB SCHMITT: What’s, what’s going on with, tell us about Fort Knox.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: It’s Kentucky. It’s a military base. It’s a ton of gold, tons and tons and tons of gold. 5,000 tons of gold. 5,000 tons of gold are there in the ground. And like this, I mean, it’s a very secure place. I think we all want to see it. I’d love to see it.
ELON MUSK: Like, this is your gold, by the way. It’s the public’s gold.
ROB SCHMITT: Do you think it’s not there?
ELON MUSK: I don’t know.
ROB SCHMITT: You just want to see it.
ELON MUSK: Yeah, we want to go see it. I’m just making sure, like, somebody does spray paint some land or something, you know. Yeah. Like, is this real gold? It might bite the bar, you know.
ROB SCHMITT: Didn’t it?
ELON MUSK: But I think, honestly, you know, part of this also is just like, let’s, you know, let’s have some fun and, you know, like I said, all this gold at Fort Knox, it’s the public’s gold. It’s your gold. So, like, I think you have, like, a right to see it. Can I take a tour? You know.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: I think we should have a tour. And then the president last night was like, I think he’s in favor of it. That would be cool. It should be like a live tour. Like, you can see what’s going on, open the door, like, what’s behind it. You know, I think I’d watch that.
ELON MUSK: Oh, are you kidding?
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. I mean, what does 5,000 tons of gold look like? How big is that? Is it the size of this? It’s got to be pretty big, you know. It’s got to be a lot of gold.
ELON MUSK: Maybe there’s some other stuff in there. Like, just walk around, like, I don’t know, maybe there’s some other stuff in there.
ROB SCHMITT: Are you thinking about auditing the Federal Reserve as well? Which is obviously…
ELON MUSK: Yeah, sure. Regulates our economy.
ROB SCHMITT: I imagine you think the waste has got to be everywhere.
ELON MUSK: Yeah, no, waste is pretty much everywhere. People ask, like, how can you find waste in, like, in D.C.? I’m like, look, it’s like being in a room, you know, and there’s targets. The wall, the roofs, and the floor are all targets.
So, it’s like, you’re going to close your eyes and go shoot in any direction. Because you can’t miss, you know. So, it’s pretty wild. It’s pretty wild. Like, you just push on things a little bit and you save billions of dollars. Like, just a little bit, you know.
ROB SCHMITT: It’s wild. It’s scary, isn’t it?
ELON MUSK: That’s why I say, like, it really is underrated. If you add caring and competence, how much things improve. And, you know, we just find so many totally crazy things, which, you know, we’re sharing with the public. We post everything. We learn. So, you can see it, you know. It’s like, isn’t it, like, it’s totally wild. Like, we just did, like, a check the database on Social Security. Like, it says, how many Americans, alive Americans, eligible for Social Security are there? And, according to the database, it’s over 400 million. And, we’re like, wait a second. And, how old are you guys? Yeah. And, then, like, we found, like, one person in there is, like, 360 years old. I’m like, what do they know, Ben? We’re 100 years older than them.
ROB SCHMITT: I mean.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. You know, America didn’t exist before at that time. Like, so.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah, we were colonies.
ELON MUSK: You know, maybe it’s just me, but I think it’s a red flag. I don’t know.
ROB SCHMITT: But, are there indications that those, that there were checks going to those people, or any of those people?
ELON MUSK: Well, yeah. That’s, I guess, the question, right?
ROB SCHMITT: I mean, I get the Social Security Administration is dumb, but are they paying these people? Are they that dumb? I don’t know.
ELON MUSK: A bunch of money is going out from the Social Security Administration. And, in fact, from all entitlements programs.
ROB SCHMITT: $72 billion in waste in, like, seven years. That’s $10 billion a year.
ELON MUSK: Well, I think the. Fraudulent payments. The rough estimate from the Government Accountability Office is over $500 billion a quarter year.
ROB SCHMITT: $500 billion. And, how old at the time?
ELON MUSK: Per year.
ROB SCHMITT: Per year? On Social Security?
ELON MUSK: No, no. No, no.
ROB SCHMITT: On all government? On all entitlements?
ELON MUSK: All entitlements. All entitlements, yeah. Yeah. It sort of actually makes sense when you look at the thing from a top level and say, like, okay, the $7 trillion was spending by the government. What percentage do you think is fraudulent?
Okay, exactly. Like, a conservative estimate of the $7 trillion would be 10%. Conservative.
ROB SCHMITT: Probably a little higher than that, yeah.
ELON MUSK: Exactly. Feels like a quarter out of every dollar, right? But, if the fraud’s only 10% of $7 trillion, you’ve got $700 billion of fraud. And, by the way, it’s really easy to take advantage of the federal government. Very easy. Very easy.
ROB SCHMITT: Look at COVID. Everybody got rich during COVID. I mean, look at all these scammers. I mean, it’s unbelievable.
ELON MUSK: It looks like, in terms of the COVID payments, there was something like $200 billion of COVID fraud taken by fraudsters out of the country.
ROB SCHMITT: Out of the country, yeah.
ELON MUSK: That’s like, I think, listen, if there’s going to be fraud, it should at least be domestic. So, you know. But they managed to get $200 billion out of the country. I’m like, what? Didn’t we notice that?
Immigration and Voter Importation
ROB SCHMITT: Let me ask you, let’s do immigration here for a second. You know, there’s this move now that Trump’s latest thing is that he cut, he’s going to cut funding, any kind of money that ends up in the hands of illegal immigrants. So, if you’re funding these sanctuaries, cities and states, that’s how they thrive, right?
Yeah. They’re paying for these hotels. That’s all federal money. If you’ve got a hotel in your city, in New York, you’ve got all these hotels full of migrants. That’s not state money. The feds are covering that. He’s going to cut all that.
It’s really hard to deport 15 million people. And it seems like the move now is, let’s think, especially at the rate that we’re going, it seems like the move now is, let’s make it so that they leave on their own. If there’s no longer a dole system for them, if they can’t get their hands on hotel rooms and money, they’re going to go back, especially if there’s no work.
ELON MUSK: Well, I think it’s really important for people to understand that the Biden administration sent any possible money that they could, if there was money they could send to facilitate and amplify illegal immigration, they sent it. They took money from FEMA, meant for helping Americans in distress, and sent that money to luxury hotels for illegal immigrants in New York. That is an outrage. They actually did that. And not only that, even after the president signed an executive order saying it has to stop, the sort of deep state bureaucrats still pressed send on $80 million last week to go to the Roosevelt Hotel in New York and other places, last week.
And now they’re mad that it got stopped. And they’re trying to sue to have it be restored. The gumption is unreal.
ROB SCHMITT: You think they’re creating a new voter class? Do you think that was the goal when they opened up the borders for four years? Create a new voter class? Get them citizenship? Get them in? Free cards? Vote?
ELON MUSK: A lot of these things, you don’t actually have to assume some grand conspiracy. You just need to look at basic incentives. Fundamentally, if the probability that an illegal is going to vote Democrat at some point, whether it’s cheating, but eventually they can become citizens. Probability is like 80, 90%.
Just look at California, which is super majority Dem. And then the incentive is to maximize the number of illegals in the country. That is why the Biden administration was pushing to get in as many illegals as possible and spend every dollar possible to get as many, because every one of them is a customer. Everyone is a voter.
And so the whole thing was a giant voter importation scam. Pretty obvious. Very obvious. And moreover, they actually created the CBP-1 voter app thing, where they would literally fly people in. At the point at which people are being flown in at your expense, building a wall up, fly them over the border. They’re literally flying them in.
ROB SCHMITT: No other country in the world would do something like this. Nobody is this stupid.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. And then we found that there was like a $100 million contract given to some guy in London, actually, for the CBP-1 app. So they’re flying illegals into the swing states. And if you’ve got like a modular victory of maybe 20,000 people and you fly 200,000 illegals into that state, it’s not going to be a swing state for long.
ROB SCHMITT: Change the numbers. Eventually. Yeah. Maybe in four or eight years, you’re talking about perpetual power. It’s just a matter of time. It’s a long game. It’s just a matter of time.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. So it might take like a year for an asylum seeker to get a green card, then five years for the citizenship. It’s an investment that is guaranteed to pay off.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: Just a question of when.
ROB SCHMITT: They all remember who brought them in and who left them here. Exactly. I want to go back. I want to talk about Biden.
ELON MUSK: I don’t quite appreciate that this was an actual real scam at scale to tilt the scales of democracy in America.
ROB SCHMITT: Treason.
ELON MUSK: Treason. Yeah. Yeah.
Biden Administration and SpaceX
ROB SCHMITT: One more Biden question. I remember when, you know, when they would do the electric car stuff, they would always try to box you out, even though you have the only electric car anybody wants.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: You said, I think this week, that you think that Biden left these astronauts up in space because he didn’t want to give you an opportunity to save them, make NASA look bad, make the private sector look better, make you look good. You believe that?
ELON MUSK: Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely.
ROB SCHMITT: So, of course. I kind of agree. I mean, why would you want to let you help them come down when you’re supporting the president?
ELON MUSK: The Biden administration was attacking the next level. I mean, the Department of Justice or Injustice under the Biden administration was, I mean, they were suing SpaceX. They were suing SpaceX for not hiring asylum seekers. And we’re like, but it’s actually illegal for us to hire asylum seekers because we’re, rocket technology is covered under ITAR rules, which means it’s an advanced weapons technology.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: And so we can only hire permanent residents or Greenpool or extra citizens.
ROB SCHMITT: Right.
ELON MUSK: Like, so we’re damned if we do, damned if we don’t. So, how can they sue us for not hiring asylum seekers when it’s actually illegal for us to do so? But nonetheless, there was a big Department of Justice or Injustice case about this against SpaceX.
So, obviously, it was an antagonistic situation. And those astronauts were supposed to be up there for eight days, and now they’re up there for eight months. Does that make any sense? And we obviously could have brought them back sooner, but they didn’t want anyone who supported President Trump to look good, basically. That’s the issue.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. A lot of them are saying right now that the reason that you want to get into Social Security, that you want to get into all of these different, into Treasury and things like that, is that you’re looking for personal information and you’re trying to make more money.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: I’ve never met anybody as rich as you that cared less about money in my life. Every time I hear a story about you, you’re sleeping on a couch of some other guy in a city that you could buy the entire thing.
ELON MUSK: Yeah, I’m not…
ROB SCHMITT: I don’t think you care about money, do you?
ELON MUSK: No, actually… I mean, listen, like, if I steal some Social Security, I can finally buy nice things.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. And on that same question, they’re also talking about you guys are going to end Social Security, you’re going to end Medicare, you’re going to end these things. I don’t imagine that conversation has been had with the President, and that’s the plan.
ELON MUSK: No, in fact, the actions that we’re taking with the support of the President and the support of the agencies is what will save Medicare, what will save Social Security.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: And it’s because if the country goes insolvent, if all the money is just spent on paying interest on debt, there’s no money left for anything.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: So that’s the reason I’m doing this, because I was looking at the big picture here, and it’s like, man, our debt’s getting out of control. The interest payments, the interest on the national debt now exceeds the entire Defense Department budget. A trillion a year.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. Interest, just to carry the money that we owe, is a trillion a year. That is unbelievable.
ELON MUSK: And rising rapidly. So, like, I mean, a country is not different from a person. A country overspends, a country goes bankrupt. It’s the same as the person who overspends goes bankrupt. So it’s not, like, optional to solve these things. It’s essential.
ROB SCHMITT: We’re going to go bankrupt.
Russia and Ukraine
ELON MUSK: Yes. We are.
ROB SCHMITT: A couple minutes left here. Russia. There’s a huge push from the administration.
ELON MUSK: Oh, yeah, yeah. People are like, sometimes, like, they say, like, you know, I’m a bought asset of Putin.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah.
ELON MUSK: I’m like, he can’t afford me.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. I think you’re worth more than Russia. Think about it.
So, you’re trying to end a war. It’s, any war always means you have to compromise, you have to negotiate with an enemy or an adversary. That’s just what it is. And right now, they are lambasting the president for trying a different method to a war that they haven’t been able to end for three and a half years, for three years.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: They, you know, they’re saying Trump’s blaming Zelensky for the invasion. How do you, how do you process all of the negativity toward him for trying to end this war?
ELON MUSK: Well, first of all, I think we should have empathy for the people dying at the front lines. That’s the most important thing. You know, it’s like, how many more years is this supposed to go on? Yeah.
The Human Cost of War
And imagine if that was your son, your father, you know, what are they dying for? What exactly are they dying for? That line that has barely, the line of engagement has barely moved for two years. There’s a whole bunch of people dead in trenches. For what? And I’ll tell you what for what. It’s like, for the biggest graft machine that I’ve ever seen in my life, that’s for what.
ROB SCHMITT: It’s unreal.
ELON MUSK: Like the amount of money that is being taken in graft and bribery is disgusting. And so what’s actually happening is that those, you know, poor guys are getting sent into a meat grinder for money. That’s what’s actually going on. And needs to stop.
ROB SCHMITT: And that’s, I mean, that’s, it seems, I mean, Trump is so pragmatic on this. He’s just, he’s just looking at it and he’s saying it’s Ukraine. It’s not our country. It’s not a NATO ally. I just want to see people not dying. I want to see on both sides. I mean, think about how many young, so many young men have died in Ukraine that the army is starting to age out. The military is aging out.
You got 40 and 50 year old guys fighting in a war because there’s nobody left that’s not killed or maimed in their twenties. That’s the reality of it. Think about how many people that is. If you’re a humanitarian at all, you just got to end the war. Like no matter what, just get it over with.
ELON MUSK: Yes. People, they need to stop dying. And the graft machine’s got to stop, you know. So, and I think people that don’t, a lot of people out there don’t realize like the president has a lot of empathy. He really cares. You know, he’s a good guy. He’s a good man.
Inside the Mind of Elon Musk
ROB SCHMITT: I got one more for you. I’ve been fascinated by you for a very long time.
ELON MUSK: Oh, thanks.
ROB SCHMITT: I’ve never seen anybody that can do so many things at the same time. I mean, you’ve got the rockets, you’ve got the cars. I’ve always wanted to ask you, what is it like inside your mind? Like, is it just a thousand miles an hour? I mean, are you?
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: Is it just not? I mean, does it ever stop? Do you sleep? How much do you sleep? Paint us a picture of inside of the mind of a genius. Can you answer that question? It’s not an easy question.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. I mean, my mind is the storm. So. Yeah. It’s a storm. But, but, I mean, let me maybe tell you something. Like, you didn’t ask a question, but, but I think it’s worth an endless, maybe just elaborating on something, which is, you know, I grew up in South Africa and, but my morality was informed by America. I read comic books, you know, played Dungeons and Dragons and, and I watched American TV shows and it, like, it seemed like America cared about being the good guys, you know, about doing the right thing. And, and that’s actually pretty unusual, by the way.
ROB SCHMITT: Yeah. It’s like, it’s like in the world. It’s very unusual.
ELON MUSK: Yeah. It’s not like actually.
ROB SCHMITT: Most countries don’t do that.
ELON MUSK: No, they don’t. No. And so I was like, yeah, you know, you, you want to be this good, you want to be on the side of good. You want to care about what’s right. And, and, and yeah, so that’s, that’s what I believe in.
ROB SCHMITT: I gave you, I gave you a tough one at the end.
ELON MUSK: Yeah.
ROB SCHMITT: So, yeah. That’s great. That’s great. Elon Musk. All right. Thank you.
