Read the full transcript of American conservative political commentator Tucker Carlson’s interview on Off The Record with Elizabeth Lane episode titled “Tucker Carlson Unfiltered”, October 10, 2025.
Welcome to the Barn
ELIZABETH LANE: Hi, Tucker.
TUCKER CARLSON: Good to see you.
ELIZABETH LANE: Good to see you.
TUCKER CARLSON: Thank you.
ELIZABETH LANE: Hey, I love this place. So before we start all this heavy stuff—it’s not going to be a heavy interview—but before we talk about some real issues in the world, explain to me, where am I?
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, this is just our family barn. When I got fired, my Fox studio is also in this building. But when I got fired a couple of years ago, I thought, let’s just work in the actual family part of the barn. Stop wearing makeup, stop participating in all the pretenses of television.
And there’s all kinds of stuff from—I don’t think I’ve bought anything in this room. It’s all family stuff. Just nowhere else to put it.
ELIZABETH LANE: Got to give me a tour afterwards. But speaking about Fox, it’s been over two years.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
ELIZABETH LANE: Since they fired you.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
ELIZABETH LANE: So could you walk me through how that process happened? Because people kind of found out, yeah, Tucker got fired, and people were so upset. But we didn’t really know how it happened. Is that a secret?
The Fox Departure
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know what happened. I still don’t know. I mean, I have all kinds of theories, and I don’t have that much interest really in finding out what actually happened. And of course, as with so many things, it’s impossible to really know the truth, I think.
But no, I had no indication anything was wrong. I was always in regular contact with the Murdochs, who I worked for for many years—over 20, all in. And they never suggested there was a problem. I had just talked to them.
And then one Monday morning, I got a call from the president of the company, Suzanne Scott, who said, “We’re taking your show off the air.” And I said, “Why?” And she said, “We’re not going to get into that.”
And I obviously argued. I wasn’t really mad. I was so confused, but I wasn’t angry. But I did push very hard on, whoa, why don’t you just tell me? No, we just want you to sign a statement saying it was mutual. Obviously, I’m not going to do that, because it wasn’t.
But on some deeper level, I’m so grateful. So I’ve never attacked Fox. I’m not going to attack Fox. I think they’re playing—that said, I think they’re playing a really poisonous role right now. And not just Fox, but the New York Post and the Wall Street Journal, who are basically publishing things that are completely untrue and deranged for an audience of one, because they know that the President watches Fox, which he does, and reads the New York Post and hears about the Wall Street Journal.
And so they’re pushing him toward war relentlessly. Absolutely relentlessly. And I definitely resent that very much. And I think it’s dangerous. I don’t understand the motive for it, really.
From my perspective, I’m not mad that I’m not there. I like some people at Fox, and I’m still in contact with them. I just don’t have any bitterness at all. I had a great time. They were super nice to me. I did what they asked me to do, which is get good numbers. And I feel like I upheld my part of the bargain.
And by the way, they upheld theirs. They paid me out. They were attacking me on background for the first couple of weeks. And I just called them up and I said, “Do you really want to do that? You know, I’ve been here so long. I know everything. Do you really want to have that?”
ELIZABETH LANE: And they just went quiet afterwards. Great.
TUCKER CARLSON: They’re like, “Yep, you’re right. We’ll stop.” You know, they had their little PR—super unhappy PR lady—telling people on background I was a racist. Okay. Which I’m not, by the way. I would happily admit it, but I’m not. I’m a Christian.
And yeah, so I just said, “Hey, maybe you don’t do that, or else I’ll respond. And I don’t really see who the winner of that fight is, do you?” They were very reasonable about it, and they have been very reasonable with me since. So I’m not mad at them at all about the way they treated me, and I really mean that.
But what they’re doing, pushing neocon foreign policy, is one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen. And it’s having an effect, unfortunately. The only thing I’ll say about this is they have a guy there who’s a weekend host who—I’m not saying he’s evil, but he’s obviously terrible on television. And when I worked there, all the years I worked there, no one watched that show, and this guy has nothing to do with Fox.
ELIZABETH LANE: I know who you’re talking about.
TUCKER CARLSON: And they elevated him to this position. So why? Is it because viewers are desperate to hear from this person? Of course not. The point is they think that he influences the president and makes the president more hawkish, specifically in the Middle East and Eastern Europe.
And why would you want that? I don’t understand. And we’re very close to blowing up the world. We’re close to a global war. Very close. Closer than we’ve ever been in my lifetime. Why would you want that? I don’t—I think it’s completely evil, is what I think.
Lost Friendships and Speaking Truth
ELIZABETH LANE: You know, that actually brings me to my next question. You’re somebody who’s—I know you don’t think of yourself as brave, but you’re somebody who’s been speaking truth way before you ever got fired. You started speaking truth way before that. You must have lost some friends when you started doing that.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I’ve lost so many friends.
But Netanyahu is really hurting the United States and the world. It’s completely out of control. And I have, for years, not said anything about it. I’ve thought that for a very long time, over 20 years, 25 years. And so I’ve always had that view, but I’ve kept it to myself because it’s not worth it.
And then, but we’ve been pushed so hard and used so much by him that it’s just terrible for the country that I grew up in. And so I’ve said something, and you do that, and people you really had dinner with and really liked all of a sudden denouncing you as a Nazi or whatever. And I never wanted that. And it makes me sad now.
ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah. I would say friends who denounce you as Nazi for your honest opinion are not really friends.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s right. I should say I’ve lost one real friend in the past 10 years, one actual friend. And I feel it’s painful for me. And it wasn’t about Israel, but we just diverged politically and he could not be friends with me. So that makes me sad.
But in general, the people you lose are—people I really liked were great. I had meals with hilarious, interesting, nice people, actually, most of them. But they were not real friends. That’s true.
ELIZABETH LANE: And you know how I like to look at this stuff, because I’ve been through the same thing. Not to the level that you have, obviously, but you don’t lose anybody, Tucker. They lose you when they lose a friend who is sincere and wants to do well. You don’t lose friends. They lose you.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think that—I mean, I don’t know, if not hanging out with me is any great loss, but in general, think about this.
ELIZABETH LANE: You had, even if it’s not Tucker Carlson, you have a friend, right? And he’s sincere about something. And you’re like, oh, I don’t want your sincerity and your thoughts. And I lose a person who’s honest. He doesn’t lose me.
TUCKER CARLSON: No, I think that’s right. And I have no grounds to whine about any of it because I have the closest inner world of anybody I know, and I mean that. And yes, I am bragging, and I have a lot of kids and their spouses, and we have a very big family and we have a big staff.
And they’re the same people I worked with at Fox. They instantly came with me. It wasn’t even a question. And I’ve had the same people around me for basically my whole life. And I mean, my business partner is my college roommate from freshman year.
So I’ve been intentional about that my whole life. And I have the best, kindest, most loyal, smartest, funniest, coolest group of people around me at all times. So I never feel sorry for myself.
ELIZABETH LANE: You know, and you shouldn’t. You’re a rich man. Not with money, but you’re a rich man.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know what happened to all the money.
Truth in a Post-Truth World
ELIZABETH LANE: It’s amazing. You know, I want to ask you about nowadays. I feel like we live in times where facts don’t matter anymore. It’s your truth, my truth. It’s a narcissistic approach to postmodern—what is that? Explain that to me.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s evil. I mean, the New Testament describes Satan as a liar. So I think the most basic of all lies is that there’s no truth because it’s a synonym for nothing is real. And you can’t have a society or even a family or any unit based on that lie, because nothing works.
All of our laws are based on the idea that there is right and wrong. And in an absolute sense, it’s wrong to murder an innocent person, period. And no amount of talking can make it right. There’s no way to justify murdering an innocent.
That belief, which is consistent across cultures, is rooted in the understanding that some things are just true. You don’t get to make the rules. They pre-existed you. So I think when you see people trying to pretend that nothing is real, your truth, my truth, what they’re really doing is attacking the source of all truth, which is God.
And I think things fall apart and become really, really dark. So it’s worth fighting that. And the other last thing I’ll say is that the truth is different. I, by the way, very often don’t know what the truth is about things. I mean, I have no idea.
ELIZABETH LANE: And that’s okay.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I wish I knew, but I don’t know. And as you get older, you realize things you thought were true or not and you’re less certain about what’s true.
ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: But you do know that when you hear something true, it sounds different and it sticks with you. Even something you’ve never thought before. The truth hits very differently because it has a holy power to it, I think. I love that it’s true. Don’t you think that’s right?
ELIZABETH LANE: It’s absolutely right.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’ll hear something and you’ll be like, I’ve never thought of that. I can’t prove it one way or the other. But wow, I can’t stop thinking about that. That’s likely to be a true thing.
Journalists as Tools of the Deep State
ELIZABETH LANE: Talking about truth. There are many people in mainstream media—they’re not dumb people. They honestly think, many of them think that they are peddling the right narrative here. Right. And they are not idiots either, because it takes a special person to go on camera and talk for an hour non-stop. That’s a talent of a sort. And they are not idiots. So how does a journalist become a tool of a deep state?
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, in two ways. Unknowingly and then intentionally. So as someone who’s been a tool of the deep state many, many times by accident, unknowingly.
ELIZABETH LANE: That was my next question.
TUCKER CARLSON: I was like, have I been used? Yeah.
ELIZABETH LANE: Yes, please.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I’ve been used for sure. I think the thing that makes me different from some journalists is that I really resent that. I feel diminished by it and humiliated by it. And I’m mad about it, both at myself and at the person who used me. So I never will get over that. I’m really angry about it.
If you don’t mind being used at all, if you’re the kind of person who would—and there are many like this, if you know what I mean. No, I don’t know. I’m sorry. But I do think there’s a self-respect part of it, right?
ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely.
Netanyahu and Foreign Influence
TUCKER CARLSON: I noticed this after Covid. Some people were like, “Oh, they lied to us. Okay. We’ll move on.” Some people are like, “What? They lied to us. How dare you?” And it was the “how dare you” people that I was drawn to because they thought that the truth matters subjectively, just matters what’s true, whether I like it or not.
And second, they had a dignity and self-respect, particularly the men. You know, I couldn’t help judging, and I still judge. I try not to, but I do. Men who don’t mind being lied to or used, it’s like men, you know, I just have contempt for that. I do. Sorry.
ELIZABETH LANE: No, no, I’m with you there. So before I move to international politics, which is going to be, oh, man, it’s so interesting, but I want to talk about some domestic stuff.
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay.
ELIZABETH LANE: And I didn’t want to even mention him in this interview at all. But why do you think a foreign leader, Netanyahu, I’m talking about him, what’s the secret here? It seems like, you know, you got to step up your patriotism, Tucker. Like, he’s more in love with the US than you are. What the hell is going on here?
I mean, guy comes out and tells us how worried he is about us and how much he… I don’t think he pledges this love to Israel, as, you know, as many times as he has done to the US. I don’t know how Israelis feel about that. But what’s the deal with this guy?
TUCKER CARLSON: He’s using the United States, its economy and its military power for his own ends. By the way, he’s hardly the only foreign leader who’s tried to do that or wanted to do that. You know, of course, that’s not only common, it’s generally the rule. What’s remarkable to me is how effective he’s been at that and how contemptuous he is.
ELIZABETH LANE: I think he shocked himself. I don’t know if you’ve seen this video of him. He asked the journalist to turn off the camera, and the journalist kind of, you know, left it running. And he goes, “80% of Americans,” this is an old one, “80% of Americans support us. It’s absurd.” Like, so he’s also surprised.
TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s right. And he has real contempt for the United States and for Christianity especially, which is very galling. I mean, lots of people have contempt for the United States and lots of people have contempt for Christianity. Again, he’s not alone in that. But the fact that we’re supporting him and his government to the extent that we are, floating the whole thing to the tune of many, many billions. It’s not 3 billion a year. It’s tens of billions a year.
ELIZABETH LANE: It’s not really him either. Like, if I was a foreign country leader and I could drive the United States and, you know, what’s wrong with us? Is the question, what is wrong with us?
American Leadership and Accountability
TUCKER CARLSON: I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s a really smart… I mean, one of the problems that I have with antisemitism, well, the core problem I have is that I’m a Christian and I think God created everybody. And I don’t think you can hate a group, period. We’re not allowed to do that. So that’s the problem I have.
But the other problem I have with antisemitism is that it’s a dodge. It’s a dodge. It’s a way of passing responsibility from yourself to somebody else. And the truth is, yes, I think Bibi is completely evil and completely destructive.
ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely.
TUCKER CARLSON: He’s not the only world leader who’s evil and destructive, by the way, again, but he is. And he’s hurting the United States and he’s destroying his own country. And I think he imperils the world. Okay, so I think that clearly they’re going to try and blow up Al Aqsa Mosque, I believe that, on the Temple Mount to build a third temple, and then you’ve got global war.
So, like, he’s a threat. There’s no question he’s a threat to the Trump administration. No question. But am I madder at him or Lindsey Graham? It’s not even close.
ELIZABETH LANE: I was going to mention…
TUCKER CARLSON: Bibi Netanyahu is a foreigner and he’s trying to do what he thinks he should do for himself and his country. I get that. What’s Lindsey Graham’s excuse? What’s Ted Cruz’s excuse? Ted Cruz says right into the camera, “I was elected. My main goal was to Israel.” Really? How does he get elected on a platform in which you say publicly, “My main goal is to help another country”? This is deranged. Where’s our self-respect?
So, no, I am way, way more angry at my leaders than I am at Netanyahu. Much. It’s not even close. I don’t want to even think about Netanyahu. I’m not interested. I’m very interested in how American leaders could betray their own country. That enrages me.
And I just want to say it again. I think antisemitism very often is a way to pass the buck. It’s their fault. And you see this not just with antisemitism, but with this lunacy about Russia, Russian interference, or, you know, some foreigners always to blame. And maybe there’s some truth in all of that, but the real blame lies with us. Why are we allowing this?
ELIZABETH LANE: So true. And I wish more people were talking like that who have the platforms and the means to do so, but they are not. And that’s crazy to me.
TUCKER CARLSON: Why? Because it’s so obviously true.
ELIZABETH LANE: It’s obvious. Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: I can’t control Bibi Netanyahu. I can certainly have an effect in the United States. I can say, you cannot reelect Ted Cruz. You cannot reelect Lindsey Graham. Not because they’re evil. I’m not even saying they are. But because they’ve betrayed their most basic commitment, which is to our country above all others. I mean, I don’t know why. That’s not complicated at all.
ELIZABETH LANE: Well, I think I know the answer to that. Like, have you looked at resumes of congressmen and senators? Like, you’re more qualified to be there than me, and I’m more qualified to…
TUCKER CARLSON: Be there than the crazy. I know.
ELIZABETH LANE: And then you have, like, Ted Cruz. You mentioned Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz was supposed to be a smart one. Was supposed to be. What the heck is going on?
Verbal Intelligence vs. True Wisdom
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I mean, I think Ted has… It’s really interesting because I see when I look at Ted, who I’ve known for long before I got into politics, and I’ve known him well, and there are things about him I like, but I see a mirror. Almost like I see…
So the problem with Ted Cruz is he has a high verbal IQ. He is very fluent with the language, and I am also. And everyone in our business is. And you see the same pitfalls every time. If you are a good talker, you convince yourself that you’re a genius because you hear yourself talk, and you’re like, “Man, I’m smart.”
But there is a huge difference between the ability to explain something or fluency with English and wisdom, like, true wisdom. And these people, all of this happened to me. They get incredibly arrogant, and they think they’re smarter than they are. They think they’re wiser than they are. And that’s why he did the interview with me. He’s like, “I’m a brilliant debater.” You’re not really. Actually destroyed the guy.
ELIZABETH LANE: You’re kind of…
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, because he’s not very smart.
ELIZABETH LANE: No, he’s not, like, at all.
TUCKER CARLSON: At all. I mean, I know people, especially here, just literally outside talking to one of them, who I work with here in our very rural town, who is so dyslexic he can barely speak English. He’s a native English speaker. But, man, if I have a problem, I call him first because he has such deep wisdom. He’s, like, twice as smart as Ted Cruz. So don’t mistake verbal intelligence for the sort of intelligence that matters, because it’s not the same.
ELIZABETH LANE: I absolutely agree with you. The same goes for Dan Crenshaw. I mean, the guy is… Oh, sorry, I had to. I mean, Dan is somebody who’s so convinced that he has the answers to everything.
TUCKER CARLSON: Hey, like, in the case of Dan, he seems really hurting.
ELIZABETH LANE: I mean, of course he is.
TUCKER CARLSON: We just didn’t… Obviously, I don’t like Dan Crenshaw. He threatened to kill me. I was not afraid somehow, but he… I look at him. That guy’s in agony. That’s my reading.
ELIZABETH LANE: He’s a troubled child. Dan is a troubled child who lost his mother. And I think he needs to find his way and someone needs to guide him. But he kind of lost friends. There’s no one to actually point the way, so…
TUCKER CARLSON: Really?
ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s sad. I didn’t know that. I mean, I grew up without a mother, and it worked fine. I got a really good wife, though, so that helps.
ELIZABETH LANE: That helps.
TUCKER CARLSON: But I would… I’m interested to hear. That’s interesting, because I feel it on him. He’s just bristling with hostility. He’s so clearly the most insecure person ever.
ELIZABETH LANE: Oh, 100%.
TUCKER CARLSON: Seems like… I don’t know this because I’ve never shared a bed with him, thank heaven. But he seems like the kind of guy who’s up late in bed checking his mentions. No, but reading about himself on Twitter, absolutely. That’s the road to hell, to agony.
ELIZABETH LANE: You are a very wise man. No, no, no. You are like… You can see through a person. That’s a talent, Tucker. They should be afraid of you.
Self-Awareness and Understanding Others
TUCKER CARLSON: No, I don’t… I mean, I think I… I don’t think I have any extraordinary talent, but with him, it’s very obvious. And I think the key to understanding other people is being honest about yourself.
ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: And if you… And, you know, Christianity requires that. Like, you ask for forgiveness before you forgive other people. Why do they… In the basic prayer of the religion, why do you do that? Because if you meditate on what a shitty person you are, it’s very hard to judge other people.
And… But you also get… If you understand your own weaknesses, like both Ted Cruz, especially Ted Cruz, like, I know what’s wrong with Ted Cruz because I’ve struggled with that myself, where you give us… Like, I don’t speak with notes. Ever, ever. I’ve never spoken with notes and I don’t have teleprompter or anything like that.
So when you do that, it’s so fun, it’s great. It’s like one of the great experiences ever. I mean, I actually love giving speeches because it’s hard and because this stuff comes out of your mouth that you’ve never thought of before. It’s like a very interesting experience and wild and so exciting and I love it.
But the problem with it is you get off stage and you’re like, you start thinking about what you said and you’re like, “Wow, I’m smart. It’s incredible how smart I am. Like, I’m like kind of a genius, actually.”
ELIZABETH LANE: I know.
TUCKER CARLSON: And when I was a kid and I had all these jobs, I kept getting fired and this buddy of mine was also in television. Like, “You got to start giving speeches so you can pay school tuition.” So I did and I gave like over a thousand around the world. Wow.
And he said to me when I first started, he goes, “You’re going to have this thing where you’re going to get off the stage and you’re going to be so swollen with self-regard, you’re going to have fallen so deeply in love with yourself that a woman in the audience is going to feel that and she’s going to hit on you and you’re going to feel…”
ELIZABETH LANE: Like, yeah, I got this. Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. I thought that was… And I never, never had a problem with that. But he identified for… This is something I really respected, James Carville, I’ll just tell you that. And who was a very wise man, despite being deranged.
But I, I, I, from the very first day I started that public speaking thing, I knew that it could easily wind up with megalomania, hubris, arrogance, like you… Anyway, it’s dangerous.
MAGA and the Two-Party System
ELIZABETH LANE: I want to ask you about something that most people like to deflect.
TUCKER CARLSON: You know, I’m not a deflector.
ELIZABETH LANE: I know, I know. And that’s why I’m here. Why is that? There’s only few things, you know, that both parties that America can offer. There’s two really. And there, there we have, then we have MAGA, right? Like it’s something different, it’s Republican, but it’s really not.
Like I feel like it’s… They, their intention was to be that third party that Americans wanted to see for the longest. It didn’t work. I don’t think so. First I want to ask you, did MAGA turn out to be what you thought it would be?
The Evolution of Trump’s Administration
TUCKER CARLSON: Nothing ever turns out right. You thought it would be. I was with Pete Hegseth the other night at Charlie Kirk’s funeral, and he goes, “Man, we had the same job. We worked together at Fox on the morning show.” And he goes, “Can you believe where we were 10 years ago?” And I was like, “You know, I’m now a podcaster. Don’t get them for the Secretary of Defense. Like, how did this happen?”
Not a criticism, but just like, I think all people as they age are like, how did I get here? What is this? So, no, it didn’t, but it’s—I mean, we’re now—so it’s what, September of 2025. We’re eight months in. Almost exactly eight months in. Almost to the day. And it’s in the process of becoming. We can’t say what it is because it’s evolving very quickly, and it will become all kinds of things that we don’t expect. And some of them will be really bad, some of them will be great because that’s just—it’s like your children, they grow up and you’re like, wow, I can’t believe—
ELIZABETH LANE: This is what happened here.
Core Principles of Trump’s Campaigns
TUCKER CARLSON: You were the baby. But I think we can say there are a couple of different principles that are central to Trump’s three campaigns. And central to his voters. They’re the reason people voted for him. And I think that we can insist that we uphold those.
The first is that the United States is sovereign and the person who leads the country has to be committed to sovereignty, which is not a way of saying America first. The people leading the United States have to put America’s interests, the interests of the people of America, above all other interests, period. We can insist on that. Very hard to force politicians to stick with that, but we have to.
The second is that war, despite, you know, everyone celebrates war and hates everyone who’s against killing innocents. You know, it’s not good. There are probably cases where it’s necessary, self defense, obviously. But in general, voluntary wars hurt the United States. They get Americans killed, they drain the treasury, they devalue the US Dollar, and they change our country culture in ways that we don’t perceive at first, but they’re almost always negative.
And I know that everyone wants to lie about this. That’s why you have books with titles like “The Good War.” Tell me how that was good. Shut up. No, I’m saying, okay, just for the record, I’m very against Hitler, very against Nazis. But the celebration of war and the deaths of millions of people and alliances with Stalin and all that stuff—it’s bad. It’s bad. And voluntary wars, wars you don’t have to fight, you’re not even pushed to fight, are really, really bad.
And the third is free speech, which is the foundation of the United States, the foundation of the government. It’s the first right in the Bill of Rights. And it’s also at the core of Christian civilization, the idea that, you know, the leader of a state doesn’t own the citizens. They’re not slaves, they’re free. Their rights were given to them by God long before the current president or emir or king got there. And they can’t be taken away under any circumstances.
And there are always attempts to curtail free speech, and they’re always motivated by the same impulse, which is, “Wait, I’ve got power. You can’t criticize me. You’re in the way.” It’s very obnoxious when you criticize me. No one wants to hear criticism, but we have to fight that. And I mean actually fight that. You know, countries that betray their core promises fall apart. And governments that do that get overthrown, and they deserve to be overthrown.
ELIZABETH LANE: We’ve seen that in history many times over.
TUCKER CARLSON: That is history. That is that story. So you can’t mistreat your people too much or they’ll overthrow the government, and they’ll be right to do that.
Questioning Military Service and War
ELIZABETH LANE: I got to say something that many people won’t like. Maybe you won’t like either. But here’s something that bothers me a lot. You have no idea how many hours I have devoted to understanding. And I come from a different country. I have multiple perspectives.
TUCKER CARLSON: I thought you’re from Atlanta.
ELIZABETH LANE: Oh, really? Yeah, I get that a little bit.
TUCKER CARLSON: You said you were from Georgia, right?
ELIZABETH LANE: Howdy. So why is that the US is so gung ho on war all the time, but not—put politicians out of it for a second. It’s almost like we put our special ops soldiers on a pedestal in a way. There’s nothing they can do wrong, right? So I have hard time—Tucker, me whatever you want—but when I see a veteran from Iraq, I have hard time telling him, “Thank you for your service.” For what service? For attacking a country on a lie? It’s not his fault.
The Drive to War and Power
TUCKER CARLSON: It might be more appropriate to apologize, especially if you’re me who advocated for that war. There are a couple of different questions that you ask. One, why the drive to war? Always different pretext, but same impulse war. And the answer is of course that it makes you feel powerful. It’s the ultimate—you know, killing people is the ultimate expression of power. We can’t create life, but we can end it.
And you see, the same with abortion. People love it, you know, love it. It’s a positive good. How is that a positive good? Because you feel powerful. I’ve been around it a lot at both ends, you know, when the decision is made to commit to war. And I’ve seen the effects firsthand, you know, covering wars, and I think there’s a massive disconnect between those.
I don’t think that the people who make the decision have any tangible sense of what it means at all. I think a lot of them are ignorant, insulated. I mean, I do really prefer the feudal model, which is the ancient—it’s the model of all time where, you know, when the Normans invaded England in 1066. We know this from the Bayeux tapestry. Who got killed in the Battle of Hastings? King Harold the king. The English king was killed in the first battle. Why? Because he was leading his troops. He got shot in the eye with an arrow.
So if you have that, you know, in a structure like that, a society like that, you know, save sleazy gay people in Congress. Exactly. I mean, I don’t think—and I don’t know if you’re—who you’re talking about, but I don’t think Lindsey Graham is going to lead troops in battle. I just don’t. So there’s that. Okay. But it’s also true that, you know, the nobility, kings, led troops in battle in pointless wars also. So that would help, but it’s not the answer.
No. War, most of the time is an expression, the purest expression of the exercise of power. I get to kill people, and they love it. And I’ve certainly been around it. A lot of leaders who make these decisions, talking about it in private, I’ve definitely seen this. And they all kind of get a charge out of it. “We took them out, we smoked them.”
ELIZABETH LANE: Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: “Want to see the video?” I mean, I’ve seen that. And it’s like, what are you really saying? You’re saying, “I’m exercising godlike powers?” And there’s massive punishment for that for the person who makes—ultimately, there’s massive punishment for that for the person who makes the decision, but also for his people.
Fear and Rage in the War on Terror
As to why Americans participated in the war on terror, which is an interesting question that I can answer because I didn’t fight, but I went immediately. I mean, I left Washington on a plane, I think the first day the airport opened to go to Southwest Asia to go see what was going on, because I knew we were going to invade Afghanistan. So I went. And then I went to Iraq. And I’ve been to a bunch of other places too.
But when I first went to those two, I was like, “Yeah, this is just—and good.” And a lot of people disagreed, and they were protesting, and I was interviewing them. I couldn’t hear a word they said because I was angry and afraid. So on point, that’s the answer. I was angry and afraid. And it shut down my ability to make rational judgments about things, as it always does.
You know, you get pissed and you—I once broke my hand because I punched a wall. I was so mad. I was much younger, of course, but I literally broke my hand. Why would you break your own hand on a wall? Because you’re mad. I also punched a good friend of mine in the face once when I was drunk because I was in an argument. I got so mad, I lost control.
So clearly, rage is bad. It’s evil. You’re not supposed to be enraged ever. We encourage it. We shouldn’t. And it was fear and rage. And so whenever I see the authorities trying to stoke fear and rage, I know that they’re trying to control me. I think that’s 90% of our conversation about race in the United States is designed to make Americans hate each other, to make them fearful of each other, to make them mad at each other so that they won’t know what—
ELIZABETH LANE: What hit them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
TUCKER CARLSON: What their leaders are actually doing.
The 9/11 Documentary
ELIZABETH LANE: You know, speaking of war on terror, you have a documentary, docuseries, as I understand, about 9/11.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
ELIZABETH LANE: If I’m going to watch anyone’s investigation about 9/11, it’s going to be yours.
TUCKER CARLSON: We didn’t get to the bottom of it.
ELIZABETH LANE: Oh, no, it’s part of it.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m just telling.
ELIZABETH LANE: Well, guess what? We kind of already know what happened, but what—
TUCKER CARLSON: We got a lot closer, I would say.
ELIZABETH LANE: Really? Okay, talk to me about it because I know, you know, I got some info about your documentary, and first of all, I saw the first episode. It was amazing. So highly recommended to watch what you find out.
TUCKER CARLSON: We found out a couple of things. You know, there are huge questions that we didn’t answer, like, what happened to Building 7? Couldn’t figure it out. But we, you know, we established, among other things, people who are still wondering what happened to Building 7 have every right to wonder.
People are wondering how 19 foreigners who were tied by US intelligence to terror activities got to circulate freely under their own names in the United States for more than a year before they killed 3,000 Americans. How did that happen?
ELIZABETH LANE: It tells me the CIA was involved in here.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, the CIA was involved at every level. Now, whether they wanted 9/11 to happen is an open question that we couldn’t answer.
ELIZABETH LANE: Well, I would argue they didn’t want Bay of Pigs going the way it did either, but maybe.
TUCKER CARLSON: Right, yeah.
ELIZABETH LANE: They want operation.
CIA and Intelligence Agencies
TUCKER CARLSON: So the most charitable explanation is that they wanted that CIA—specifically CIA, but other intel agencies. But really CIA. It’s often said that NSA is the biggest intel agency. I don’t know how they’re measuring that. We don’t know how big CIA is because it’s all classified. But they’re clearly—they’re the key player in the IC.
ELIZABETH LANE: I see them as siblings. I feel like CIA gets all the crap, but NSA does a lot of that shit too.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I totally agree. Well, they spied on me, so.
ELIZABETH LANE: Gosh. Did you know they actually hire former Special Ops? This is what people don’t know. I can attest to it. I have every fact. They hire former Special Ops guys like SEAL Team 6 and send them on one man operations. Did you know that? Why would CIA—why would NSA do that?
TUCKER CARLSON: Because they can. Because it’s all classified.
ELIZABETH LANE: That’s what it is.
TUCKER CARLSON: Including their budget. So when things are secret, of course people can do whatever they want because there’s no oversight at all. And the congressional oversight of the intelligence community.
ELIZABETH LANE: Hey, Tucker, it’s a matter of national security, okay? What are you talking about? It’s always that.
The CIA’s Foreknowledge of 9/11
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s all why. But anyway, look, CIA was involved at every level. They followed these guys. Israeli intelligence also followed them in the United States. It’s possible that French intelligence did also. But we know the first two happened. Doesn’t mean they planned 9/11. But it means for whatever reason they knew that these guys were up to that. They’re planning a terror attack and they didn’t stop it. Why? I’ll let that question hang in the air. But there’s no question that they knew. There’s absolutely no question.
And I should say, by the way, for that, for the five episodes, we only interviewed people who were directly involved in the years preceding 9/11, in the aftermath. So it was only primary sources. These are actual players. It wasn’t anyone who came to conclusions by hearsay. Zero. It was like the FBI agent in charge. The guy ran the bin Laden station, ran the section at CIA where they track bin Laden, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So we only talk to people who are directly involved.
I got to say, of all the—I mean, this took many months, many months. And it was painful for me because I was on the periphery of all of that as it was happening and didn’t understand it at all. We have a producer called Charlie Cougar who’s—we’ve worked, I’ve worked with for many, many years, and who’s just amazing. And a combination. He’s just purely skeptical and smart. Very smart, extremely smart. Smarter than I am, very skeptical, doesn’t believe anything. That’s the guy you want.
So as we talked with, we got to do something that’s responsible, that’s factual, that’s fearless, but it’s got to be responsible. We can’t say anything that we don’t know to be true. And we didn’t.
Financial Markets and Foreknowledge
But the thing that blew my mind maybe more than any—so all of the theories about 9/11 turn on one question, which is, was there foreknowledge? Did people know this was coming? And if so, why didn’t they do anything about it? To what extent were they involved? But that’s the question. Was there foreknowledge? Was this just a total shock or—it was not really a shock, actually.
And the thing that convinced me most that there was foreknowledge—I mean, there was foreknowledge, but there were huge bets put in the public financial markets against shorting the airlines involved in 9/11 and the banks and the buildings that were collapsed. Huge. And so, and we know that because they’re public markets, we can track the trades. And no one has ever been—no one’s ever explained that.
What I learned during the course of making this is that the FBI found out who made those trades and has hidden the names for 24 years. And so to me, we made this in part because we wanted to spur a real investigation. The first one by Philip Zelikow was fake, and he was basically just a cutout for Condi Rice, the former National Security Advisor.
But we wanted to force a reexamination of 9/11, a new commission, a real one, because I think it’s really important because America was changed completely by that day. But that one fact, we don’t need to wait for a commission, right? I would like to see people a little bit more engaged. Like, we’re going to actually chain ourselves to the gates of the FBI until you tell us this. I’m in favor of that being honest.
ELIZABETH LANE: Yes, I’ll be there.
TUCKER CARLSON: People are not. I hope they will do that. There’s no indication that they will.
The Kennedy Assassination and Its Legacy
ELIZABETH LANE: It’s the most, second most important thing that happened, in my opinion, in American history. First was killing President Kennedy.
TUCKER CARLSON: Of course, that’s right. Because that’s never been explained. Because there was a cover up. Absolutely. Because there may have been foreign involvement. Very likely foreign involvement in—I can’t say conclusively, but I think that’s true. Certainly parts of the CIA were involved. There’s really no question, because no one who was involved was ever held to account for involvement.
It means that for 62 years, this has hung over every US president as a kind of warning, as a monkey on a stick, as they used to say. You impale the monkey just so the other monkeys are like, “Whoa, better not do whatever that monkey did.” And so it really is a leash on every American president. And there’s a reason that the truth matters, because otherwise evil thrives in darkness.
The Epstein Files Mystery
ELIZABETH LANE: Talking about the truth and how it matters, why is it that Epstein files—somehow both parties come together when it gets to, why should it not be public. Right. They don’t even give you real reasons, though. That’s the crazy part. Democrats don’t fight over, “Oh, we should push this because there must be something about Trump,” and you have Republicans who are like, “You know what, it’s fine. Are we still talking about this guy Tucker?” What is up with that?
TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I think the obvious answer is probably the right answer. I’ve talked to the President about it a lot, and his view is that this is all a trap. He said this many times in public.
ELIZABETH LANE: All a trap. What do you mean by that? It’s all a trap.
TUCKER CARLSON: He believes or he says, and he said to me, and I think he said in public that this reminds him of Russiagate. This is an attempt by Democrats to ensnare him in a fake scandal. He had nothing to do with Epstein. He’s not—never did anything creepy. Which, by the way, I just want to say I believe that completely. I think I know him pretty well and I—quite well. And I don’t, I just don’t imagine that at all. That’s whatever the President sins, I don’t think.
ELIZABETH LANE: Why not? Why not?
TUCKER CARLSON: But I don’t know the answer. I think it’s incredibly counterproductive. I think it would have been very easy for the administration to be transparent about Epstein. I think it would have helped the country. I think it would have helped the administration a lot, given it credibility.
The Power of Shame
ELIZABETH LANE: Listen, I know you know him well, so I want to theorize here real quick, because no one—people do interviews, and they don’t really go into this stuff. I don’t know why. Why are they so scared?
So, obviously I’m not honestly even interested who was in the Epstein list, because I’m going to see all the good names there, because I’m in—if I’m a vicious guy that wants some kind of dirty stuff on a guy that’s doing good, that’s pretty much how I would do it. I would target good people that are in powerful positions making decisions.
So could it be that, you know, human emotion, if we’re talking about the most damaging human emotion, it’s mostly shame. People do stuff because they are ashamed and they will trample over love. Love is most powerful, but they will trample over love. But when it gets to shame, and the CIA learned this long time ago, people typically will do whatever it takes so that their dirty laundry is not out there. Could it be that Trump was there? He just doesn’t want to jeopardize his presidency by putting it out there?
Trump and Epstein: The Facts
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I mean, that’s a matter of documentary proof that Trump knew Epstein. Trump’s talked about this a lot, right? “Yeah, I knew Epstein. He did creepy stuff at my club. I kicked him out.” It’s absolutely true. I can verify this firsthand that Epstein was always around. And everyone knows Epstein and having dinner at his house.
And I don’t think having dinner at his house or even necessarily going to his island is proof of a crime. I know a million people who had dinner with him. Mostly liberal. He was liberal. But I don’t—he had this kind of salon going on in his house right off Fifth Avenue in the 70s, biggest house in New York. And he was inviting everyone to dinner, and he said, Ehud Barak is living there. He’s got Stephen Hawking and he’s got members of the British royal family and so on.
That level, knowing Epstein is not exactly—it’s not a crime, much less something to be ashamed of. That was—he was at the center of New York society for, and Palm Beach society for decades. Decades. So if you want—I mean, it’s on the Internet. Want to list people who hung out with Epstein? It’s like half the people on television hung out with Epstein.
Intelligence Agencies and Epstein
ELIZABETH LANE: But here’s the problem, though. Here’s where things don’t line up for me. So if this guy is a Mossad operative and conducting an operation actively in the United States, trying to target people, trying to get something on them, why—why are our agencies okay with that? That’s what I just don’t get.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you know perfectly well. Look—
ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, no, I know, but—
TUCKER CARLSON: So there are a lot of—look, I’m speculating at this point. He clearly had contact with Israeli intelligence. He clearly contact with US Intelligence, and maybe most critically, British intelligence, which never gets the credit it deserves for being probably a little scarier than Mossad and CIA and ruthless and just involved in everything bad. There’s nothing bad that happens that doesn’t have British intelligence involved in it. I have noticed a lot. So there’s that.
Then there’s also the question of, was his sex life a hobby, or was it a job, or was it both? Was this a honey trap?
ELIZABETH LANE: I think it was both.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, probably both.
ELIZABETH LANE: Right.
The 2006 Investigation
TUCKER CARLSON: There’s no Epstein list. There are no Epstein files. This is—I know this. All of the real story begins in 2006, 2007 when he’s arrested in Palm Beach. And I think this is public and it’s worth looking at, is the search warrant. Jeffrey Epstein’s house in Palm Beach basically was written to help Jeffrey Epstein.
So this came to the attention of the authorities because one girl complained about him. They had to investigate it. They did. There was a lot there. And then the search warrant basically protected him, and it prevented the authorities from collecting meaningful information. It was like, “You’re allowed to look in drawer three, but not drawer four.” How did that happen? That’s the center of the story.
So the truth is, the US Government doesn’t have that much. What they do have is the ability to talk to people who are involved, like Les Wexner, which they’ve never done, who is the longtime owner of the Limited, Victoria’s Secret, lots of other companies, who was a very close friend of Jeffrey Epstein’s, had some kind of clearly unusual relationship with them, and wound up buying his property at Fifth Avenue, for example, I think also his house in his ranch in New Mexico, and a lot of things. Massive transfer of money from this guy, Les Wexner, in Ohio to Jeffrey Epstein. Why?
Leon Black? Same thing. He says, for accounting services. That’s clearly not true. Those are people who could be brought in to explain what they know, and they haven’t been. So, to me, I think the Epstein list, the client list, I have been reliably told that there is no such thing. Really. But we know who the big players are, because it’s already been public.
ELIZABETH LANE: They’re not being questioned. Yeah.
The Real Crime in Plain Sight
TUCKER CARLSON: And what is that? You tell me what that is. I don’t know. And I think it’s really distressing. So that’s not about Mossad or MI6 or CIA. That’s about stuff that was in Vanity Fair magazine, and no one’s followed up on it. So I think, as usual, the crime is right in front of our faces, and I can’t answer that question. I find it enormously frustrating.
And I’ll just say once again that the Trump administration, I think, would help itself quite a bit. I don’t think they have anything to fear. If what they—if what people are saying they’re afraid of is that Trump did something gross with women—
ELIZABETH LANE: I really don’t believe.
TUCKER CARLSON: I just want to be clear. I do not believe that I’m not covering for Trump. I just don’t think that’s true. I’ve never seen any indication of it. And I’ve talked to people, to be totally honest with you, close to Epstein. Very close to Epstein, who told me off camera in private, “It’s not—Trump never did that shit.”
So I don’t think it’s about that. But why is no one talking to Les Wexner? And most critical, from my perspective, is Epstein’s death, which was very clearly a murder. He was murdered. I bet my house on it. And there’s a lot of evidence that he was murdered, and the Justice Department under Bill Barr lied about it. And what is that again? That’s not even—it’s almost like the Bibi thing. Yeah, it’s not really about Bibi. It’s—I don’t like Bibi. I think he’s deranged.
ELIZABETH LANE: It’s not about Bibi. It’s about us. It’s about us.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s about us. It’s not about Epstein. It’s not about Mossad.
ELIZABETH LANE: Right.
The Epstein Case and Bill Barr’s Cover-Up
TUCKER CARLSON: I just want to say again that I think I understand some of the stories that the anti-Semites tell. Okay. But I think ultimately the anti-Semites are really bad because they, on many levels, morally, they’re bad, of course. But they also, as a practical matter, anti-Semites are bad because they draw you away from the actual truth, which is there’s serious corruption right next to you. It’s nothing to do with Jews. Exactly right. And I really mean it too. I’m not just saying that.
So he was murdered in the most secure part of the federal detention facility in Manhattan, our biggest city. And Bill Barr, the then Attorney General under Donald Trump, covered it up. What? And it just so happens that Bill Barr’s father, Donald Barr, is the one who hired Jeffrey Epstein without a college degree to teach at one of the most prestigious private schools in Manhattan.
Maybe there’s no connection there, I don’t know. But it’s an amazing thing I just learned, and I believe it’s true. I learned from a very well-informed person that it was Donald Barr who got Epstein his job at Bear Stearns. Yes, at Bear Stearns. And by the way, that’s not proof of anything.
ELIZABETH LANE: But I call that circumstantial case stuffer. It’s not approved. It is a circumstantial case.
TUCKER CARLSON: So I’m totally convinced. I’ve said this in public many times. He’s threatened to sue me, and I would welcome that. I think that Attorney General Barr covered up his—I mean, I know that he did. He announced that it was a suicide before they’d done an investigation.
So you can’t—you’re the chief law enforcement officer. Here are the rules: we don’t say we know something until we know it. And you had no way to know that, so you announced it anyway. And then you tell everyone around you this was a suicide and we’re going to prove it’s a suicide. That’s not law enforcement. That’s by definition a cover-up.
And that happened and he admitted he did that. So he covered up Epstein’s murder for whatever reason, and his dad got Epstein started in life. I just don’t even know what to make of those. Those are facts and I don’t know what to make of them.
Dan Bongino and Kash Patel’s Response
ELIZABETH LANE: I want to ask you about Dan and Kash Patel when they were giving interviews, like two scolded kids. What was that about? Okay, so we know the cover-up happened. That’s fine. Trump has his people, maybe not all of them. I know it’s hard. I know the capacity it requires to clean up a 65-year-old mess, maybe even more. But these two showed up and told us, “Oh no, it was a suicide. Yep. Guys, it was a suicide.” I trusted Kash Patel. I still trust Dan Bongino.
TUCKER CARLSON: I like Dan a lot. Dan’s a friend of mine and a really good guy. I don’t know what to make of that. I know Kash, of course, but I know Dan well enough to know I would be shocked if he was lying. I think he must have believed that. I don’t believe that. I told him—I talked to him later. I don’t believe that at all. And they’ve released no evidence that makes me believe that at all.
And they’ve released this video, which is absolutely ridiculous. And they’ve never told us who are the other—so I think there were 12 inmates in the secure part of the facility. And I spent months on this story with Jeffrey Epstein’s brother Mark, the only survivor in that family who believes he was murdered and has a lot of evidence that he was.
And I really walked through it all. Went to visit him. We spent days on this. And no one’s ever explained any of this stuff. And I could go through all the evidence, but I’ve already done it. But the point is, I don’t understand why they think that.
In Dan’s case, just knowing him well, I can say I believe that he believed it. I don’t believe it in general. I think we would just be all better off. We’d have less suspicion, less conspiracy theories and misinformation if we were just honest.
ELIZABETH LANE: About it, to show us.
The Power of Honesty
TUCKER CARLSON: I know in my life that is true. When you stop—I mean, when I realized the Iraq war was a disaster, I guess I could have, since it all happened before YouTube, I could have been like, “I was never for this. I always knew this was bullshit.” But I was like, no, I’m not going to allow myself to do that. I’m going to admit that I advocated for this disaster, that it was all a lie. I participated in a lie unknowingly, but I did participate in it. And once I admitted that about myself, I was totally free. When you’re not hiding something, you’re liberated.
ELIZABETH LANE: Well, you’re also kind of unshakable. There’s nothing they can do.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s how I feel. That’s how I feel. Totally.
ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: And I’m not a virtuous person at all. I’ve done a lot of things I’m ashamed of in my life, but I have concluded, because I have done bad things, that trying not to do bad things, doing your best—probably will do them anyway—but then admitting it when you do it, that is salvation on this earth.
The Charlie Kirk Assassination
ELIZABETH LANE: Before we go on a super happy note, and I want to finish it that way because you’re so pleasant, I do want to ask you. It bothers me a lot, and I know it does bother you too. And I know that you probably don’t sleep because you think about this stuff. Who killed Charlie Kirk?
TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, you know, there’s a man in custody. I’ve really tried not to publicly speculate or say anything that I can’t prove, and he shouldn’t.
ELIZABETH LANE: That’s smart.
TUCKER CARLSON: I love Charlie, and I talked to his wife this morning. I love his wife, Erica, and I don’t want to make it worse. So the guy’s in custody. It’s a very weird story. I will also say, having been a police reporter and covered a lot of crimes, that all crimes are pretty weird. You know, the farther you dig, they’re always anomalies, things that don’t make sense. Witnesses who saw something completely different. Just any human experience, if it has multiple vantage points, it’s hard to reconstruct.
That said, you know, they’re going to need to do a real investigation on this. And I’ll just—here’s all I’ll say. If the FBI and the authorities in Utah end this investigation by declaring Tyler Robinson a lone gunman with no accomplices whatsoever, without having done a truly exhaustive investigation, you know, sort of like the one they did into January 6th—
ELIZABETH LANE: Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: That will not be adequate. That will not be acceptable. And I think that they will risk further fracturing the United States along the lines of people who believe the story or want to believe the story, and those who just don’t find it an adequate explanation.
So I hate even to say that that could happen because, you know, it’s my country, my government. I want to trust the FBI. There’s no reason to trust the FBI at all. At all. I mean, they’ve acted—they’ve been caught acting in bad faith and conducting what I consider crimes so many times, lying so many times, that I think it’s at this point, especially since my friend was assassinated, I think it’s fair to demand a real investigation with a lot of transparency.
And if they say, “Oh, we can’t say that because we don’t want to prejudice the jury or it’s going to affect the prosecution,” that’s not a good answer. Tell me what happened. I’m particularly interested in, of course, all the practical details. There’s no videotape of this guy getting on the roof. There’s no videotape of him bringing the gun on the roof. It’s not clear he brought the gun off the roof. It’s not in videotape anyway. So I’m interested in, how did he get away, for example? Who was this guy?
ELIZABETH LANE: George Zinn. Yeah. Why?
TUCKER CARLSON: What is that? Is that connected? Tell me a story that makes sense. But what I’m most interested in is how a guy who was by all appearances a pretty normal kid wound up murdering a stranger just a couple years later. He was radicalized. Okay, walk me through that. Tell me exactly how that happened.
I think we’re owed that. You know, I do. I have confidence we’re going to get that? Zero. Not because I’m not attacking Kash Patel. I’m not attacking anybody specifically.
ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, I feel sorry for them. I know exactly.
The FBI’s Credibility Crisis
TUCKER CARLSON: I do too. And I do. I know for a fact, because I have been trying to learn all that I can, they’re under enormous pressure for sure. But the institution of the FBI, no one’s really been fired from FBI, by the way. And we know that. I mean, their behavior’s been almost unbelievable over the past 10 years.
I am shocked by it as a 56-year-old American who kind of believed that things were on the level. We’re all pursuing justice here. I’m shocked by it and I’m shocked by the fact that no one’s really been punished for it. And you don’t get reforms without punishment, period.
And I’m not even saying anyone should be executed. I’m just saying the kind of punishment you’d mete out to your own children because you love them. I caught you doing something. You have to admit you did it. I’m going to punish you, and then hopefully your behavior will improve. Without that, your behavior doesn’t improve.
And I’m not confident theirs has. And of course I know people who work there. And one of them said to me recently, before Charlie’s assassination, but said to me, “Everything that you think about the FBI, you know, undersells it. It’s”—and I’m quoting—”10 times worse than you think internally.” I believe. So that’s a verbatim quote.
So, you know, I’m not exactly sure what that means. But I’m under no obligation to have confidence in any story they tell me. I’m going to need proof. And I would hope that every American would demand—even people who didn’t like Charlie Kirk—because it’s not about the assassination of one man. It’s about whether you can have a functioning country, exactly, where you can hold wrongdoers to account and affect justice.
ELIZABETH LANE: I agree.
TUCKER CARLSON: And so I haven’t said anything, and I’m not going to until there’s a reason to make hard judgments. But if it turns out the FBI is not doing an adequate investigation, and it’s not just me—of course Charlie had a million friends—people should go bonkers. They should go bonkers and absolutely demand it because this is too much.
ELIZABETH LANE: Exactly. Enough is enough. I agree with you.
What Love Means to Tucker Carlson
And now to the good part of the interview. Okay, tell me, what’s love for Tucker Carlson?
TUCKER CARLSON: What’s love?
ELIZABETH LANE: What’s love for Tucker Carlson?
TUCKER CARLSON: What do I love? Oh, gosh.
ELIZABETH LANE: When you think about love, what is that for you?
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it’s funny you said that, because today is the 41st anniversary of the day I began dating my wife, which is kind of weird and kind of great. We took the morning off and sat in bed, the dogs and coffee, and talked all about it.
And, you know, I’ve just been really fortunate in that way. So I met this girl in 10th grade, and it just kind of never ended. It just kept evolving into this great thing, and it produced all these other great things, all these children and then all these other—you know, it’s just a lot. And just like a tree, it just all of a sudden has all these branches, and then squirrels live in the branches. It becomes its own ecosystem, you know, and marriages like that.
So, you know, for me, that’s my primary experience of love, is my family and my dogs. We have some incredible dogs. Incredible dogs. So, you know, I have a lot of love in my life, a lot more than I deserve, for sure. And that’s what keeps me happy every single day.
And I always think to myself, I do think, especially when you have kids, you reach a certain point when you’ve got little kids at home, it’s like, “Oh man, nothing can happen to me. They need me.” But at a certain point in a blessed life, you realize, you know, no one really needs me actually anymore. And that’s great.
ELIZABETH LANE: That’s great.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s great.
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