Erika Kirk’s Interview on Honestly with Bari Weiss (Transcript)

Here is the full transcript of Erika Kirk’s interview on Honestly with Bari Weiss, Dec 14, 2025.

Brief Notes: Bari Weiss hosts an emotional CBS town hall with Erika Kirk, widow of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, three months after his assassination on a Utah college campus. Erika reflects on the rise of political violence, the people who tried to justify Charlie’s murder, and why she believes the culture of “words are violence” is fueling real-world attacks. She responds to viral conspiracy theories about Charlie’s death and Candace Owens’ role in spreading them, addresses growing antisemitism on the right, and explains why she publicly forgave her husband’s alleged killer. The conversation also explores Charlie’s final book on honoring the Sabbath, Erika’s new role leading Turning Point USA, and her message to young Christians about family, faith, and finding purpose in a divided America.

Introduction

BARI WEISS: Good evening. I’m Bari Weiss, editor in chief of CBS News, and I want to thank you so much for joining us tonight. Let me tell you why we’re here. If you’re watching this or you’re sitting here in this room with me, you know what I know, which is that we live in a very divided country, a country where many people feel that they can’t speak across the political divide. Sometimes they feel they can’t even speak across their own kitchen table. And one of the goals of the new CBS News is to change that.

And this town hall is just the beginning. This is going to be the first of many conversations and debates on CBS News about the things that matter most, which are often the hardest to talk about. I can make one promise to you, and it’s this: You will not agree with everything you hear tonight or in any of these other broadcasts. And that is exactly the point.

Because the premise of a democracy is that we persuade each other with words and not violence. And that the only way to get to the truth is by talking to one another. And that brings me right to tonight’s guest, Erika Kirk.

The Tragedy That Changed Everything

Three months ago, Erika Kirk’s husband Charlie was assassinated on a college campus in Utah. To some, Charlie Kirk was controversial. To others, he was heroic. What is indisputable is that he transformed the American right in the twenty-first century. He did it through an organization called Turning Point USA, which he founded when he was only eighteen years old.

In the wake of Charlie’s murder, Erika has now picked up his mantle. The mother of two young children, she is also now the CEO and chairwoman of Turning Point.

Now Charlie’s murder was not an isolated tragedy. And tonight in the audience, we have other victims of the political violence that’s ripping through this country. We also have religious leaders, college students, young Christians, and others invited by CBS News. You’re going to be hearing from some of them tonight. Okay, we have a lot to talk about.

So Erika, let’s get started. Thank you so much for joining me.

ERIKA KIRK: Thank you for having me. I was very grateful when you had reached out because it was an opportunity to be able to have conversation that Charlie always enjoyed being able to have dialogue on both sides so that people could really hear everything that’s going on. I appreciate it.

BARI WEISS: Thank you so much for making the time. There’s so many subjects I want to cover. I want to begin with the hours and days after your husband was murdered. You got up in his podcast studio where he broadcasted from for many hours every day, and you said this: “You have no idea what you have just unleashed.” What did you mean by that?

“You Have No Idea What You Have Just Unleashed”

ERIKA KIRK: Let me give you a little background of that day. We get home. The team goes to dinner. I’m laying in my daughter’s bed, and I can’t sleep. It took me months to even walk into my bedroom. I’m laying in my daughter’s bed. I can’t sleep. I grab my phone, and I start typing out it. And those are my words.

That morning, the team reached out to me and said, “They think they got the guy. You should probably say thank you to the authorities and just make a statement.” I said, “Okay.” I wasn’t afraid. They said, “Let’s go to the office and let’s discuss. We’re at the office and they say, do you want to go live? Or we can easily, you know what? Yeah. Let’s do that. We can easily prerecord this.”

I said, “Absolutely not. My husband always went live. I have nothing to hide. We’re fully transparent. What you see is what you get. If I start breaking down on live TV, I break down on live TV. My husband was assassinated. He didn’t die in a car accident.”

So we go live. I write all of my own speeches. And when I said that, that is the Holy Spirit that is unleashed. That is a revival that’s unleashed. That’s not meant for call to violence. That’s meant for people to understand that the Lord is moving in ways we have no idea. And God is going to use something so tragic to wake people up to realize that our life is short. He only lived thirty-one years. Thirty-one years.

And so, yes, you have no idea what has been unleashed. But I will promise until my last breath that I will let the Lord use me in ways that he only can to bring glory to him and to the kingdom. And it has been unbelievably powerful, and it’s just the beginning.

Confronting Those Who Justified His Death

BARI WEISS: Erika, one of the most alarming things about Charlie’s murder was the way that some people in this country reacted to it.

And not just online. This was an idea that you encountered a lot. And the idea was this: They kind of justified it. They basically said that because Charlie said or believed things that they believed were controversial or even hateful, that he somehow had it coming. What do you say to people who justified his death?

ERIKA KIRK: You’re sick. He’s a human being. You think he deserves that? Tell that to my three-year-old daughter. You want to watch in high res the video of my husband being murdered and laugh and say he deserves it? There’s something very sick in your soul, and I pray that God saves you. I pray because that is what is so wrong.

The Internet in this world has dehumanized us. My husband did something very simple. He talked to people. You’re going to be murdered by talking to people? He didn’t go after people. He went after your ideas. And if you think it’s okay to murder someone because you think they had it coming for them because they took the time to have people come to the front of the line if they didn’t agree with you and you think it’s okay because you don’t like what they say or how they say it, that they should be murdered and you’re enjoying it and you’re rejoicing in that, that is evil. Evil.

The Dangerous Idea That “Words Are Violence”

BARI WEISS: As you know, and as I know, one of the ideas that has gained a lot of traction among young people, especially in this country, Erika, is, and this leads them to this kind of justification, is the idea that words themselves are violence. And that brings us tonight to our first audience question. It comes from Angel Eduardo. Angel is a senior writer and editor for the civil libertarian group, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression or FIRE. And he writes passionately about issues of free speech. Angel.

AUDIENCE QUESTION: Thank you, Bari. Erika, my condolences. A recent survey that we took after Charlie’s assassination found that 90% of undergraduates believe to some extent that words can be violence. Another FIRE survey that we took earlier also found that one-third of surveyed students believe that using violence to stop disfavored speech can be acceptable, at least in rare cases. What’s your response to those numbers? And what would you say to those students in particular?

ERIKA KIRK: Well, the people who say that my husband might have incited violence, I know that was not your question, but I’m going to put a squash on it before anyone else can attach to that. My husband never incited violence. He never once said, “Go after them because they’re saying X, Y, Z and they deserve to die.” My husband never once said that, and he never would.

What did he say? “Come to the front of the line. I’ll put my mic down. Tell me why you believe that. That’s interesting. I never thought of that. But have you thought of this?” People heckling, laughing at them. “Stop. They took a lot of courage for them to come up here. Stop doing that.” He gave them a microphone. He didn’t take away a moment for them to speak back. He gave them a microphone. And what’d they do? They gave them a bullet in the neck. Totally different.

But you have secular revolutionaries that want to come out and say, “You can’t say that, and I’m going to stop you from saying it.” Why don’t you have a conversation? Something as simple as a conversation. And this is what is so fascinating to me. My husband knew that something as simple as having a conversation could change the world. So simple. That is an ancient thing. Come and sit down and have coffee with me. Why do you believe what you believe?

Eighties and nineties, they were doing this in Congress, then going to have a subway afterwards. Why don’t we do that anymore? Instead, it’s violence. Usually, one-sided, I’m not going to go there.

Charlie’s Final Message: Stop in the Name of God

But you know what’s so interesting about my husband’s book, the last book he will ever write? It could have been about politics. It could have been about football. It could have been about anything. He was multidimensional. It literally says, “Stop in the name of God. Stop. Stop the violence. Stop the hate. Have a conversation. Stop.”

And what he knew in that book was not just so much stop that. Take a minute to get off of your phone and realize that we are all human, operating on this broken planet, all sinful, no one’s perfect, and we’re not getting out of here alive.

But what he knew in that book was the balancing factor of communication. You cannot communicate with someone if you’re not at peace with yourself. So he went on campus talking to a kid. They’re screaming at him. Screaming. Does he scream back? Not once. He sits there. And you know what he’s thinking? It’s in that book.

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Maybe you need to take a few hours. Get off your phone. Go for a walk in nature. Go sit and have a coffee. Go and tell your mother you love her. Go do something that is beautiful and healing instead of trying to tear something down that you did not build. That’s my thought on that.

Disconnecting to Reconnect

BARI WEISS: We’re going to talk about the book in a little bit, but I want to pick up on a theme that you’ve now hit on twice, which is the idea that the black squares that we all have in our pocket are phones. That they are doing something to us collectively, that they are dehumanizing us. Later, we’ll talk about the conspiracies that are spreading right now on those platforms about who killed your husband. What do you recommend to people sitting in this room? What are your practices to disconnect to reconnect by disconnecting?

ERIKA KIRK: Well, like my husband, I took all of it off my phone. All social media off your phone? I don’t have it on my phone. I have a team that helps run it. Everyone has an opinion about me. I could care less. You know what I care about? I care about what my daughter says about me and her running up into my arms and loving on me. That’s what I care about.

Addressing Controversial Statements

BARI WEISS: One of the things that has happened over the three months since Charlie was murdered is that people have gone through the thousands, maybe tens of thousands of hours of words he produced. He said more in thirty-one years than most people will say in a lifetime. I want to read a few that captured the most attention, especially on the political left.

Some gun deaths were, quote, “unfortunately worth it” to preserve the Second Amendment, he said. Acknowledging that he wishes he didn’t feel this way, he said, “I’m sorry. If I see a black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.” He said the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a mistake.

Now, I realize that all of those quotes come from longer conversations that he had on his show. But he did say those things. And Charlie is being memorialized by many people as a person who promoted civil discourse, as a person who said, “Come to the front of the line. Let’s have a civil conversation.” How do you square that with the statements I just read?

ERIKA KIRK: I would love for everyone to be able to watch the full and entire clip of what he said. Charlie didn’t care what skin color you were. He didn’t care what religion you were. He loved excellence. He loved knowing that people, his favorite word was “earn.” He loved knowing that people worked hard to earn what they got. He worked so hard to build Turning Point USA.

The first statement you meant about guns and shooting, I have no idea the context of that, and I have no idea what that whole, there’s a lot more there than just that one little sentence. My husband is not to be deteriorated to two sentences. He’s not. He is a thought leader, and he was brilliant of a man. So that’s fine if you want to take words out of his mouth or out of context without the whole thing in perspective. But that’s the problem.

Does it bother you that people are picking out those statements and drawing an entire picture of who he was? Again, that’s the problem. You’re not having a conversation. You’re having a fifteen-second clip on the Internet to define your thought of who someone is instead of taking the time to educate yourself on truly who that person is, what they thought, because why? They challenged you to think a little different?

Again, my husband was an amazing man or human. But I do not once for one second think he was anything else than exceptional.

A Question from Charlie’s Last Conversation

BARI WEISS: Erika, as you know, the last person that Charlie ever spoke to was a Utah Valley student named Hunter Kozak. He was asking Charlie a question that day when he was shot and he’s here tonight and he wants to ask you a question.

AUDIENCE QUESTION: Hi there. Erika, I want to tell you how much I appreciate your calls for peace and unity. And I’m likewise horrified by the people in my so-called camp who were cheering about Charlie’s murder. I believe that they stoke the flames of violence. But even worse is when powerful influential people on either side of the aisle stoke the flames. When they do it, the flames can become an inferno.

Donald Trump and Political Violence

And this leads me to Donald Trump, the most powerful and influential person on earth who has more responsibility than anyone else to put the flames out. Just last month, President Trump called on six Democratic lawmakers to be tried for sedition, which he clarified was punishable by death. He then reposted a simple message: “hang them.”

I think that you’ve been making strides to bring peace to our country, and that Turning Point has been asking Democrats to decry the individuals who cheer for violence. I have and will continue to decry them.

But any good faith effort to stop political violence must hold both parties to the same standard and expectation. So in that spirit, will you condemn the violent rhetoric of Donald Trump, the most powerful and influential person on earth?

ERIKA KIRK: I appreciate your question. You know my heart. Why would I ever say yes, go murder people?

This is so much deeper than just one—I understand your sentiment. I do. But this is also so much deeper than just one person. This starts at the home. Okay? This starts with family. This starts with a seed that grows and grows. You can choose to have evil in your heart or you can choose to have light. What you consume and what you absorb from the outside world will manifest itself.

No, I will never agree with political violence. My husband is a victim of it. I’m a victim of it. But what I’m trying to say here is that we can blame everyone else. We have to look in the mirror when you become a father, when you become a mother. How are you raising your kids? Are you taking responsibility, or are you giving them a device and saying, “go down that rabbit hole. I’m trying to go to Pilates class. You can just sit in the corner and look at your iPad or look at your phone and go down that rabbit hole and see what you can learn from that instead of being a parent.”

So my call to action from that is: parents, step up. Do you want your kid to be a thought leader or an assassin? That’s where we’re at.

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Do you think our political leaders have a responsibility to turn the temperature down right now?

ERIKA KIRK: Well, I think everyone has a responsibility to do that, and I’m doing my part. I’m not in control of other people.

BARI WEISS: Okay. Ahead, a father whose daughter was murdered in cold blood because of who she was. He’s here. Also, political violence and the conspiracy theories surrounding Charlie Kirk’s assassination. Stay with us.

Bob Milgram on Antisemitism

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Never before has conservatism, the ideas of freedom, liberty, American exceptionalism, been so popular on these college campuses.

BARI WEISS: Welcome back to our CBS News Town Hall with Erika Kirk. Bob Milgram is the father of Sarah Milgram. Sarah was fatally shot last May outside the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington, DC, alongside Yaron Leshinsky, her boyfriend. Sarah was just twenty-six years old when she was killed. Bob, thank you so much for being here.

BOB MILGRAM: Thank you, Bari. Hello, Erika.

ERIKA KIRK: Hi, Sarah.

BOB MILGRAM: Just as our family could not anticipate the pain we’ve been going through following the murder of our daughter, Sarah, there is no way I can understand the pain that you and your children are going through as a result of Charlie’s tragic death.

Our daughter was killed because of antisemitism, hate against Jews, and hate against the Jewish homeland, Israel. We know about the growth of antisemitism on the left, including here in New York City where the mayor-elect still will not condemn the phrase “globalize the intifada.”

What I want you to address is growing antisemitism on the right, including Holocaust denial, anti-Zionism, and the normalizing of centuries-old conspiracy theories about Jews. Will you here condemn the individuals spreading that hate and speak out clearly enough against antisemitism so we can prevent another tragedy?

ERIKA KIRK: Yes, sir. First of all, I’m so sorry. You and I are a part of a very small club—painful, but you’re in good company and I will pray for you.

Hate is hate. It’s evil. Charlie and I have always been very clear on our stance: Israel and Jewish people. It’s awful. Awful. Antisemitism is—what healing factor comes out of hating Jewish people? What healing factor comes out of hating Christians? What healing factor comes out? Hate in general. Nothing. Nothing.

Charlie always would say very clearly, “Jew hate was brain rot.” He would always say it. We’ve been to Israel twice together. And to be able to walk in the place where our Lord walked and see the Bible come to life in technicolor—how could you hate that place? How could you hate the Jewish people? Why? Because you need to fulfill a conspiracy theory.

People say I’m a part of conspiracy theories all the time. It’s sick, and it needs to stop. We are human. No one is perfect. No Christian is perfect. No Jew is perfect. No Muslim is perfect. We are broken, sinful humans in need of a Lord and Savior. And that’s why it is so important to give your life to the Lord. Because once you do that and you fully surrender to the Lord, you have no room in your heart for hate.

And so, sir, I am so sorry what happened to your daughter. I pray that does not happen, and I pray that that is something that we can somehow extinguish in this world. But we are living in enemy-occupied territory. And every single day, we need to guard ourselves, guard our minds, guard our heart, and the best way to do that is reading God’s word. And you cannot separate the Old Testament from the New Testament. You cannot. You cannot.

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BOB MILGRAM: Is there anything specific that Turning Point can do to combat antisemitism?

ERIKA KIRK: Yes, so we are on all of our college campus and high school campuses, we have these conversations. And our students understand exactly my heart and Charlie’s heart and the sentiment of everything I just said. We have Shabbat dinner happening at AmFest. We have individuals in our chapters who are Jewish. We have people that are going to be having booths. We have an exhibit hall at AmFest that are Jewish, that have Jewish organizations.

The only way to combat evil, just like Charlie did, is with dialogue and not being afraid to do it. If you have these things that are being said, you need to counter it with the truth. And if you don’t, there’s a void and a vacuum. And so even though they’re a small number, they get louder and louder. So we need to do our best, which we are doing—we’re doing our part. We’re going to continue to do our part to make sure that the truth is always heard. We’ll amplify it even more. And we’re going to do the best we can, but we need the whole community. We need everyone in on that.

BARI WEISS: Bob, thank you so much.

Conspiracy Theories and Discernment

BARI WEISS: I want to talk about discernment. Yes. Okay? Being able to separate truth from lies. Reality from unreality. A twenty-two-year-old man named Tyler Robinson has been arrested and charged with the murder of your husband. And yet there are a huge number of conspiracy theories—you might call them brain rot—that are spreading right now online about the actual story behind the reality.

One, people say that Tyler Robinson was actually a MAGA Republican. Or two, some people say you were actually a Mossad agent sitting in front of me, and you were Charlie’s handler, and Israel killed Charlie. Right. Other people say that a number of men in the crowd were wearing maroon t-shirts, and this signifies that his killing was an elite airborne operation, whatever that means. They say that the rings on your fingers, which are—

ERIKA KIRK: My kids’ initials. My wedding band, the medal of freedom, my engagement ring.

BARI WEISS: But apparently they symbolize some kind of secret plot. There’s also a new theory that Egyptian aircraft have been tracking you. What is going on? Why are there so many conspiracies spreading about what seems to be a pretty open and shut case?

ERIKA KIRK: This is the first time that we have seen evil on display where we have social media at our fingertips. Something so evil that happened, people are wanting answers immediately. They are wanting to figure out how to wrap their mind around this. Egyptian planes—do you—let’s just split. No. But I’ll—yeah. Egyptian planes.

BARI WEISS: Do you believe that Tyler Robinson murdered your husband?

ERIKA KIRK: Yes. I do.

BARI WEISS: Why do you think it is so hard for so many people to believe that reality?

ERIKA KIRK: Because it’s too simple. Again, everyone always has to think there’s more to the story. Well, sometimes there’s not. I’ve seen the autopsy report. I’ve seen our case pulled together. I’ve been in constant contact with our lawyers, our—the prosecuting team. I’ve seen it all.

And let me tell you this. Why in the world—why should we, prior to the trial, lay all of our hands and cards on the table for the defense team to see to somehow then—I don’t even know what they would do with it. But what I will say, and I want to get on the Egyptian plane thing—take a flight on that for a second.

What I will say is what I’m worried about, and I’m fascinated just from a legal standpoint to see how the UnitedHealthcare trial pans out. And I say that because this is the first time where we are seeing the implications—

BARI WEISS: You’re talking about Luigi Mangione.

ERIKA KIRK: Correct. I’d prefer never to say any of their names. They do not even deserve the ounce of oxygen and breath out of my body. But what I mean is it’s fascinating to see how social media will impact that court case, just how it might impact mine.

BARI WEISS: Are you—he’s not going to get a fair trial? Are you—

ERIKA KIRK: Well, I’m nervous that there could be—they’ll say, “we can’t find a fair jury.” Like, they’re going to taint the jury pool.

BARI WEISS: And in that case?

ERIKA KIRK: That’s how widespread you think these conspiracies have gone.

BARI WEISS: Yes.

ERIKA KIRK: That’s how mainstream they become.

BARI WEISS: Okay. Egyptian planes? You want to talk about Egyptian planes?

ERIKA KIRK: Okay. I was pregnant for ninety percent of those trips. Mind you, I’d never—all those places they said I’d travel, I’ve never been. I mean, I’ve been, but I’m not within those dates that they’ve—

BARI WEISS: But you even said—

ERIKA KIRK: Do you need to—no. But this is—yeah. But I do on that one only because—only because from a humor standpoint, I intentionally, when I was pregnant, hid. Not because I was embarrassed, not because I didn’t want anyone—yes, we did keep it very private, but because it was a moment very sacred. I was growing a human inside of me, my baby.

The world that Charlie and I live in is very toxic at times. Yeah. And when you are growing a beautiful child in you, I don’t want to be around it. I want to enjoy eating my In-N-Out burger and my hot fudge sundae. That’s what I want to do. I’m pregnant, and I have nine months to own it. You really think I’m going to be on an Egyptian plane while I am wanting to be with my In-N-Out burger and my chocolate milkshake? No. I’m not.

So if you want to go through my flight log, go right ahead. It’s very boring. You say I was here on this date. I have a photo on my phone to prove that I actually was in the hospital because I was having contractions. So game on.

Candace Owens and Conspiracy Theories

BARI WEISS: The podcaster Candace Owens. Okay? At one time, a friend of Charlie’s. At one time, an employee of Turning Point. She has been one of the main peddlers of these conspiracies, and she is making a huge amount of money on it. She is building her business off of these lies. What do you want to say to her and the other people that are putting these lies out into the world right now?

ERIKA KIRK: Stop. That’s it. That’s all I have to say. Stop.

Rob Henderson on Cultivating Young Leaders

BARI WEISS: Okay. The next question comes from a person who may be familiar to you, Erika, because Charlie interviewed him for his show last August. Rob Henderson, to you.

ROB HENDERSON: Thank you, Bari. And thank you, Erika. During that discussion with Charlie, neither of us knew that was going to be the last long-form interview he would ever conduct because his life was cut short by the actions of a very disturbed young man.

As someone who admired Charlie’s ability to offer young people a productive and optimistic path, I wanted to ask: how should the conservative movement think about cultivating leaders and role models for young men? And how can it continue offering them a constructive alternative to the toxic currents Charlie so astutely criticized?

ERIKA KIRK: It’s a great question. First of all, your interview was amazing. It’s one of my favorite ones to look back on. Charlie connected with you very well. And I can always tell when he does on his show. I’ve always watched his show. And I could always tell because his questions and his engagement would shift. And he always loved—he loved that conversation with you.

As the CEO of Turning Point USA, it is my responsibility to make sure that our youth is in good hands. Our chapter leaders are amazing. And there’s some leaders within those groups you guys have not even seen or heard about yet, but you will one day, and you’ll be blown away because they are amazing kids.

We had two of them at our gala event this weekend, and they spoke in front of our donors. It’s the first time I ever met them. Phenomenal kids. Not only are they smart, they have a heart. Not only do they have a heart, they can understand and see the Gen Z landscape in a way that we can’t. And from a peer-to-peer communication level, they’re phenomenal.

So I personally, having a front-row seat to the rising generation, the courageous generation, they’re amazing. Yes, there are bad apples. Millennials, we got them too. So do the baby boomers. So does Gen X.

Cultivating Leaders Beyond College

No one’s escaping the bad apples. It’s just the batch. But it is our responsibility, my responsibility, our team’s responsibility to make sure that our chapters are cultivating those leaders. So when they leave high school and they decide not to go to college, they’re in the workforce being incredible people and incredible leaders. They might not be influencers.

Not everyone’s meant to. Everyone plays a very specific role. But they’ll be someone and something very important, and they’ll plant seeds. And that’s all you have to do is plant the seed. And then let truth grow from there.

But thank you again for the time that you spent with my husband on that final conversation. It meant a lot to him. It means a lot to me to be able to have that to show my babies one day.

Charlie’s Final Book: Honoring the Sabbath

BARI WEISS: Erika, Charlie’s last book, it wasn’t about politics. It wasn’t about policy. It was about the Jewish Sabbath, which he kept for twenty-five hours starting sundown on Friday night through sundown on Saturday night. What made Charlie so passionate about this subject?

ERIKA KIRK: He was on the verge of burnout and he thought to himself, what can I be doing? And he always loved the ten commandments. And then he saw it, honoring the Sabbath. And he realized that if you don’t, this one commandment, this one, if you don’t honor it, you’re the one who misses out on the gift, not God.

BARI WEISS: Are you keeping it?

ERIKA KIRK: I’m trying my best.

BARI WEISS: Is it helping?

ERIKA KIRK: It is. I feel close to him. I break it apart though. So instead of a full twenty-four straight, I’ll break it apart only because my mom’s sick and I need to be available because I’m her medical power of attorney. So I need to be available if something happens. And so I make it what works for me, but that’s what was so beautiful about that. Charlie wasn’t legalistic about it. He’s like, make it your own.

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Balancing Motherhood and Leadership

BARI WEISS: Erika, you have made a lot of comments that a lot of people have noticed about women suggesting, you know this, that women should get married young, they should have children young, that they should prioritize family over their careers. And at the same time, you are now doing both. You now have two young children, I think both under the age of three. You’re the CEO and chairwoman of Turning Point. Square that for us.

Some people look at you and say, you know, she’s trying to make it a binary choice. You can be the trad wife or the girl boss, but look at her, she’s having both. What do you say to them?

ERIKA KIRK: Well, I didn’t ask for this. It’s a, obviously it’s a blessing that I view it as a blessing. It’s a duty to my husband. But I was very happy being a stay at home mom. There’s nothing wrong with being a mother. There’s actually more beautiful and emotional and powerful job title, if you will, being a mother.

And for me, I experienced what it was like living in New York, living that boss fame culture. But when I met Charlie and we had our babies, that I was in it. That was all hands on deck. I would take that world in a heartbeat. Always.

But you know what? There was never any daylight between Charlie and I, and his mission was my mission. So stepping into this role is not so much a job title. This is not a nine to five for me. This is something that I’m very passionate about because it’s still a remaining breathing version of my husband, this Turning Point USA.

So this organization is not just a company to me. And the staff and employees are not staff and employees, they’re family. And so for me, it’s a lot different and a lot deeper than a career. This is very personal. But yes, it is hard. But at the same day, it takes a village and I have one heck of a village.

Advice for Young Christian Women

BARI WEISS: We have a woman here that has a question perfectly calibrated to this part of our conversation. I want to hand it over to Isabella Regi.

AUDIENCE QUESTION: Thank you. And Erika, you and your family are in my prayers.

ERIKA KIRK: Thank you.

AUDIENCE QUESTION: I’m a twenty-six year old Christian woman living in New York City. I would like to stay here long term, but I wonder whether it’s sustainable. Do you believe there’s a place for women like myself in modern cities who care about having a career but also marrying a like-minded Christian conservative man?

ERIKA KIRK: Well, yeah. So it just depends on where you’re looking. You know? If you’re on the apps, I don’t know if you’re on the apps. I don’t know if I’m not going to ask you your personal journey.

But what I will say is when I lived out here, I was here for five years. I never dated here because I saw vicariously through my roommate how terrible it was. Somehow getting drinks was the replacement of having coffee and breakfast. I personally would rather have coffee or brunch with someone than go. I just I don’t drink. I find it unproductive, not because I’m holier than whatever. I that’s not. I just don’t operate that way.

But I always thought it was very strange how she would go to drinks with one guy and then go to dinner with another. So it goes twofold here. So if you’re expecting to marry someone that I was blessed with like a Charlie, you have to be the type of woman that will attract a Charlie.

Are you going to church? Are you going to bible study? Did you tell your pastor that you are ready for the lord to bring into your life the man that you’ve been praying for? You yourself need to be prepared for that man, and only you will know how to do that. Does that mean staying out and going out with the girls? I’m not saying you sit on your couch and all of a sudden he’s going to knock on your door and be like, honey, let’s rendezvous. Like, that’s not how it happened. It’s not.

Granted, my situation was a little different. I wouldn’t do it.

BARI WEISS: You went to a job interview.

ERIKA KIRK: Literally. So this is how good the lord is. He knew that because I was not dating in New York City, he knew that in order for me to know that that was my man, he had to blanket Charlie as a job interview. Because if that went in, no joke. If he came to me and said, hey, let’s go on a date to Bill’s Burgers, I’d be like, I am so sorry. I thank you, but no. We’re not doing this. That was my mindset. I’m not. I was not in that headspace. I just wasn’t.

But God will work in incredible ways when you surrender the pen for him to write your love story. And when you know that, look, if I remain in the jet stream of God’s will, he will provide for me in ways I cannot even imagine. And that is my prayer for you.

My prayer for you is to remain open and to remain prayerful and to let people around you know old school style, I’m ready and I’m looking to get married and having a family. You can always have your career. Being able to have a family truly is a very limited short, short window.

You can start your career if you have people and it’s amazing business, have other people run it. You can still manage it. You can still pour into it, but you have your babies. And then once your babies are grown and the nest is empty, go back to your career. There’s nothing wrong with that.

If you don’t have a career, you have your babies, the Lord’s going to inspire something inside of you that you’re like, you know what? There’s a problem. I have a solution. How many baby companies have been born out of moms? You know, like the little carrier seat or a stroller or…

BARI WEISS: We live for that carrier seat.

ERIKA KIRK: Right. A hundred percent. I’m not trying to plug them for like some things. I’m just trying not to even say the name, but you understand my sentiment is that there’s something really special and beautiful about making sure that you are the woman that your future husband deserves and vice versa. Do not settle. Thank you.

BARI WEISS: Thanks, Isabella.

The Act of Forgiveness

ERIKA KIRK: I forgive him. I forgive him because it was what Christ did and is what Charlie would do.

BARI WEISS: Erika, that moment that we just watched was unforgettable. I was one of millions of people across the world that watched you get up on that stage and forgive the man who murdered your husband. And I think a lot of people looked at it and thought, this is incomprehensible. It’s almost, it’s almost baffling.

And I want you to speak to those who are unable to understand really that act of grace. How is it possible that you can forgive the person that murdered your husband?

ERIKA KIRK: I’m not forgetting what he did. I’m not condoning what he did. What he did is sick and evil. So sick and evil.

What I am doing is releasing myself from the enemy’s hands where he could have a foothold in me. And he could be able to just, like I said earlier, you have a choice. Am I going to take that moment? And I will never say anything I don’t mean. I really prayed on that moment. That was a game time decision. I’ll never say what I don’t mean.

But am I going to take that moment to say, rally the troops, burn the city down, march in the streets? Or am I going to take that moment and unleash something like we talked about even greater, more powerful and say, it’s a revival. And let that unleash and let the Lord use it in ways that no one else could have ever imagined.

BARI WEISS: If you were to meet the man, I won’t name him again, accused of murdering your husband, do you know what you would say to him?

ERIKA KIRK: Nothing.

BARI WEISS: You would say nothing?

ERIKA KIRK: I have nothing to say to you. Nothing.

BARI WEISS: Is there a difference, Erika, between forgiving someone in a religious and spiritual sense, but also wanting justice for them here on earth?

ERIKA KIRK: No, of course. But we serve a just God. And I rest easy in knowing that He’s sovereign, but He’s just. And so let the Lord handle that.

Faith Through Suffering

BARI WEISS: I want to bring in our final audience question for tonight. I want to turn it over to Joe Lavoie.

AUDIENCE QUESTION: Hi, thank you. Your faith in this process has been inspiring and that inspires this question. How are you able to trust God amidst unfair and immense suffering?

ERIKA KIRK: One of my favorite books in the Bible is the book of Job. And what’s so powerful about that book is that you read it and you go along and you say, how could bad things happen to good people? But what happens at the end of that book? God does restore. He does. Even more so than Job had prior.

But when did that happen? It happened when Job prayed for his friends. Even though they were against him, even though there was all this drama, he prayed for his friends. You can call them enemies. That’s not saying, “Oh Lord, my enemies.” Like, no. There is boldness in being able to say, Lord, do what only you can do. And the Lord restored what Job had lost. That’s how.

Closing

BARI WEISS: I want to thank Erika Kirk so much for joining me tonight. And I also want to thank our audience for participating in this town hall. CBS News is going to have many more conversations like this in the weeks and months ahead. So stay tuned. More town halls, more debates, more talking about the things that matter. I’m Bari Weiss here in New York. Good night.