Neuroscientist Emily McDonald on Jay Shetty Podcast (Transcript)

But when you know how your brain works, you can then use that knowledge and apply it to whatever area you’re really struggling with. So I think that it really can be applied to many different areas of your life.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I love that analogy. I’ve had many a time in my life a car that’s broken down on me, not been a mechanical engineer, and pushed my car up a hill. And that’s what it sometimes feels like for people.

I feel like people feel that they’re fighting against their brain, they’re breaking down their mind, they’re trying to push forward, and they just feel stuck. I feel like so many people listening right now feel stuck in their job, they feel stuck in a bad relationship, they feel stuck looking for a career.

If someone feels stuck, what do they need to understand about the brain in order to start the process to get unstuck?

Understanding Why We Feel Stuck

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah. So I think that feeling of being stuck is really quite natural when you think about neuroscience and your biology. The brain loves to keep you in what is safe and normal to you.

The brain is also, I like to call it a prediction machine. So we don’t necessarily experience reality. We experience our brain sort of filtering everything we see, hear, feel, touch, but also predicting what’s about to happen. And that’s why a lot of times we feel anxious or whatever it is. It has to do with the brain predicting something that’s upcoming.

So I think that feeling of being stuck is quite normal and natural. And I just want to say that first, but also understanding which area you’re stuck in. I’m going to take it in an interesting direction right now. But I like to talk about procrastination because it’s a good example of feeling stuck.

The Three Reasons Why People Procrastinate

# Reason #1: Identity Mismatch

If you are, let’s say you have a goal and you’re starting a podcast, and you’re like, “Okay, I want to do it,” and then you’re procrastinating it. I always say that there are three reasons why people procrastinate.

The first reason is there’s an identity sort of mismatch. And what I mean by that is that your sense of self and who you believe that you are doesn’t match with you working toward the goal of launching a podcast.

And this actually kind of resonated with me personally. Whenever I was starting to write a book, I was procrastinating writing my book, and I was like, “Why am I doing this? I know it’s a goal. I know I want to do it, but I don’t know why I’m procrastinating.”

And the default mode network in the brain is really what’s at play here. So the default mode network is really appropriately named because it kind of helps to regulate and propel our default mode of behavior. So it’s responsible for our default mode of being and doing, but it’s also responsible for our sense of self and constructing the narrative or the story of our lives.

And so if your sense of self doesn’t match, if your identity doesn’t match whatever it is that you’re trying to do, then your default mode network is not really going to be helping you do the behaviors or take the action toward starting a podcast.

And so I always tell my clients, I tell my students, I tell everyone on social media, “Just identity shift. Shift your identity. You can just start to identify as the version of you who has done the thing.” And so that’s kind of the first part of that.

JAY SHETTY: Let’s talk about that first. That’s so interesting. And I love the way you broke down the default mode network, because this identity mismatch that you’re talking about. Are you saying that if you don’t… I know you’ve said something, which I love you said. “Science says you have to act like you already have it.”

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: Before something can happen. Is that what you’re saying? That you’ve got to feel like, “I’m already an author, I’m already a podcaster.” How does someone practically apply that identity to make sure it’s aligned?

Acting Like You Already Have It

EMILY MCDONALD: Right. So it’s really just choosing to identify as that person. And so when I say that you have to act like you already have it or like you already are it in order to do it or be it, it works the same way.

The analogy I use there is falling asleep at night. When you fall asleep at night, you lay down, you close your eyes, you slow your breath, and you pretend like you’re asleep until you fall asleep. And your brain makes it so. And life works that way as well. And you have to act like it and move like it.

You’re not going to become a drummer in a band unless you act like a drummer. And drummers practice. And so how do I apply that practically? From my book example, I really just decided, “I’m an author.” From this moment forward, I’m an author.

And I think a lot of times we don’t realize the power that we have to choose those sorts of things. And this is another reason why I tell people to be so careful about the labels that they use to identify themselves and the labels that they put on themselves.

Growing up in my own life, I had so many different labels put onto me that I believed and just kind of allowed to describe who I was. And that impacted my life, it impacted my health, it impacted everything in my world. And so that’s one of the reasons why I’m so passionate about it.

But yeah, applying that practically, a lot of times it really just looks like choosing to identify as that version of you. If I’m trying to start a podcast, I am a podcaster, and there I am doing it.

JAY SHETTY: Almost like, how does an author behave? And let me start practicing right now. So an author gets up and writes a page, even when they don’t feel inspired, because that’s how they get, for example.

EMILY MCDONALD: Right.

JAY SHETTY: Or like a podcaster sits down and you just start interviewing the people that are available until you’re able to book the guest that you really want to speak to.

EMILY MCDONALD: Right? Exactly, exactly. And when that happens, when you choose, when you write a new, what happens then is that you’re writing a new story and your brain kind of stops using your past to predict your future, and it kind of starts to take the present moment and your new identity that you are choosing to help predict your future behavior. And so it’s super powerful.

JAY SHETTY: I love that. All right, what’s the second? That was good.

# Reason #2: Fear of Success

EMILY MCDONALD: Okay. So the second reason why most people procrastinate is fear. A lot of times we are actually subconsciously afraid of success. And I think this is a big reason why a lot of people stay stuck, is that we are actually subconsciously afraid of what it might look like if we succeed at doing it.

JAY SHETTY: Interesting.

EMILY MCDONALD: And for me, personally, so I’m actually about to launch a podcast. By the time this episode comes out, it may or may not be already launched. But again, I was procrastinating filming my podcast and me being me. I sit down and I analyze my mind. “Why am I procrastinating starting to film this podcast?”

And what I found was that I was subconsciously afraid of being seen in sort of a more vulnerable way. Because long form content is a lot more vulnerable than a one minute reel on Instagram. You’re not really you in that short of a period of time, but in long form content, people can really see you. And so that was sort of the fear that I uncovered for myself.

But yeah, and I think this is another reason why I tell people all the time, a lot of people say get specific about your goals, but I also say get specific about your fears. Because your fears, they can have control over you when you don’t know what they are. But when you identify them, labeling them, well, that activates the prefrontal cortex.

And the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala, they sort of have this kind of seesaw relationship where when activity in one goes up, activity in the other goes down. And so when you label your emotions, you label the fears that you have, you’re actually giving yourself your power back. You’re activating the prefrontal cortex, which is the CEO of your brain. It’s sort of the boss of your brain.

And so kind of getting specific about your fears, I would say, is the way to overcome that version of stuckness. And I think that’s a really powerful activity to do. If somebody were feeling stuck.

How to Identify Your Fears

JAY SHETTY: How did you get so specific and define your own fear? I love that you shared what you were worried about and this whole idea that people are scared of success. How did you come upon that? What process did it take? What reflection did you do? How did you identify them?

I love what you said about identifying your goals is important, but actually knowing your fears is equally as important, if not more. How do you do that?

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah. So I think for me, I have the saying called “take it all the way to the end.” And so allow yourself to go on the journey or the path all the way to the end.

And so I sat down and I was like, “Okay, if I go and I film this podcast, my goal is to have a top podcast in the world.” So if I’m having a top podcast in the world, what might that look like? Oh, that means that I’m setting myself up to be seen more and maybe have more hate, maybe have more criticism and judgment and all that.

And just seeing myself write that down, I was like, “Okay, well, if my brain is highlighting that as, ‘Oh, if you go and start a podcast, you’re going to have more hate and face more criticism,’ then it might try to keep me safe from that.” And that’s really what that is, is your brain is just trying to keep you safe.

And so that’s why identifying your fears can be so powerful. And so, yeah, I would say if you’re trying to identify what your fears are, I would just take the goal, whatever it is that you’re trying to do, all the way to the end.

If it’s the top podcast or if it’s the best selling book or if it’s your business or even a relationship. A lot of people in relationships are afraid of relying on someone or being dependent on someone, or really fully being open and vulnerable with someone.

And honestly, just identifying that as the first step and getting super clear on that. Because when you get clear on that, then you can rewrite the story of exactly… Yes, it’s true, being more vulnerable and being seen might equal more judgment or criticism, but it might also equal, and to the same extent, if not more, more love and more support. And you have to identify it first to give yourself the chance to even rewrite that fear.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I love the idea of “take it all the way to the end.” That’s a great one. It’s a great way of actually getting really clear on exactly what’s tripping you up. And I love what you just said, that actually when you come up with it, you realize your brain was just trying to keep you safe.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: It was actually just trying to help you because it was scared of that. It wasn’t that you weren’t good enough or it wasn’t that you weren’t smart enough, or it wasn’t that you can’t develop the skills. It was just trying to keep you safe.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah. And I think when we think about our brain trying to keep us safe, and that’s a really big reason why the brain tries to keep us kind of in our comfort zone. Right. But it’s super important to recognize and acknowledge that any sort of growth happens outside of our comfort zones.

I would not be in the position where I am today if I didn’t take delusional level risks and leaps of faith. And so it’s really a requirement to achieving or receiving or having whatever it is that we want. And so, yeah, getting really clear on our fears and taking all the way, take it all the way to the end applies to that. It also applies to limiting beliefs as well.

Like, take it all the way to the end, see what comes up for you. And also, yeah, I think because I’ve had students, I had a specific student ask me, she was struggling with sand volleyball, beach volleyball, and she was like, I had this fear and I was like, take it all the way to the end. Visualize it.

Maybe I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone tell people, visualize your fears. But if it’s safe for you and you’re not going to have any sort of physical reaction, like, visualize it and see what comes up for you and see, like, what is it really that you’re afraid of. And then you can give yourself the chance to kind of rewrite that story.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. What’s number three?

Cheap Dopamine and Why It Keeps You Stuck

EMILY MCDONALD: Okay, so we’ve got there’s an identity mismatch or there is maybe some underlying fear behind it. And then number three is really more of a scientific kind of simple, straightforward thing. And it’s cheap dopamine. It’s everywhere and society sort of it’s everywhere. Cheap dopamine, social media, it’s all over the place. And like fast food, binging Netflix, whatever it is that’s number three is cheap dopamine.

And it’s really, it’s a dream. Dopamine. I always say, like, dopamine doesn’t care about your dreams, dopamine just cares about what you automate and what you repeat. And so it’s going to keep you doing that. And also when it comes to cheap dopamine, if you’re giving yourself a lot of that, then you’re not really. And one of the big things that I do to help kind of motivate myself to doing things is withholding reward.

And so whenever I was in the PhD, I studied drug addiction. And so a lot of dopamine research and studying kind of the dopamine pathways, but also drug addiction is really just maladaptive habit formation. And so when I think about kind of cheap dopamine and habit formation and behavior, because dopamine drives a lot of behavior, one of the things that I do to kind of motivate myself is just withhold whatever reward that I’m wanting.

So let’s say I saw it online or I was shopping or whatever, and I saw a shirt that I wanted, I wouldn’t allow myself to buy it, or a candle or whatever it is, I wouldn’t allow myself to buy it until after I do the task that I’m maybe procrastinating or feeling stuck doing.

And so if someone’s out there right now and you’re procrastinating or feeling stuck starting a business or going after a job or dating in a relationship or whatever it is, and you’re regularly giving yourself sort of cheap dopamine or, you know, allowing yourself to just like have whatever reward it is and you just give it to yourself all the time, then you’re not really setting yourself up for success because you’re giving yourself. Your brain is just well fed on dopamine.

And you can think of it sort of as the analogy of like snacking all day, right? So if you’re snacking all day, you’re never really going to be hungry to eat that whole meal. And so dopamine is kind of the same way. If you’re like giving yourself those cheap dopamine hits going on social media all day long, then you’re never really going to be driven to go complete that big task.

And that big task is going to be a lot more rewarding than the small, repetitive, cheap dopamine, especially at night. So I want to highlight that because this is something newer that I’ve been talking about. And honestly, I discover all this, obviously I learned about neuroscience in school, but I discover a lot of the kind of hacks and stuff based on what I need and in my own life.

And so I realized I was waking up with less motivation, waking up low on energy and just not really feeling like normally. And I have, most of the time I really do wake up and I jump out of bed and I’m like, ready and so excited for the day. So I’m like, what’s happening here?

And what I actually realized was that so dopamine actually resets itself and restores as you sleep. And so scrolling at nighttime or binge watching Netflix or any of those things that give you cheap dopamine and even eating late night snacks and all that, that actually. Well, one, it disrupts your sleep and that keeps your dopamine system from restoring itself, but also it desensitizes your dopamine receptors.

So when you wake up in the morning, you’re for lack of a better keep it simple. You’re less sensitive to dopamine when you wake up in the morning, when you give yourself cheap dopamine at night. And so cheap dopamine is number three. It’s a big reason why people stay stuck. Yeah. Because if you’re giving yourself snacks all day, you’re never going to be driven to cook a meal. If you’re giving yourself cheap dopamine all day long, you’re never going to be driven to go do the big task that’s going to help you get closer to your dream.

How to Make Big Tasks More Rewarding Than Quick Dopamine

JAY SHETTY: I love that. How do we convince ourselves that the big task is going to be more fulfilling than the cheap, quick dopamine or what do we do with that? Because I think you’re spot on that there are a million distractions today. It’s easy to be caught down a wormhole. It’s easy to binge a show.

And you don’t realize that actually building the thing you love or starting that business or investing in that relationship, whatever it is, will be so much more meaningful. What do we do with that? How do we get there?

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah. So I think two things. The first is get super specific about why you want that thing. Right. So if you don’t really know why you want. And let’s. I guess the big goal for this would be writing a book because that takes so long. It does not come easily or come quickly.

JAY SHETTY: And it never gets easy. I’m on my third one. I’m writing my third book right now. It does not get easy. It is not. I’ll just tell everyone it’s not easy.

EMILY MCDONALD: And you’re in it. It’s a marathon, it’s not a sprint. They used to say that to me all the time in the PhD even though they wanted you to sprint the marathon. And so I think for that, it’s really understanding and being super clear about why you want to do it. Because motivation is not always going to be there for you.

And that’s where knowing your why. And I kind of have a different take on discipline, where I don’t really think of, like this hardcore sort of discipline sort of moment. I think of discipline as looking out for future you. And I think this is why it’s super important for me. Whenever I am working with people, I ask them, you know, like, who do you want to be?

Like, when you imagine yourself, like, achieving the goals or whatever it is, like, it’s not really about that. It’s about who achieving those goals is going to make you become. And that’s really what it’s all about. Like, who are you feeling called to become and getting super clear on who that is and why you want to be that person.

And so understanding your why and why you want to do it, why do you want to write the book? And that will keep you going and motivate you, but also who that’s going to make you become. Like, I want to be an author. Like, I want to have a book published. And sometimes that’s going to motivate me a lot more than just thinking about publishing a book, you know what I mean?

I think that is sort of super important is really knowing your why. And then I think the other thing, when you’re clear on that, when you’re clear on who you want to become and your why and your purpose for doing it, that’s really the first half of it. And then the other half of it, I don’t do the whole internal battle thing, like, don’t. I don’t negotiate with myself. That’s something that I don’t do.

And so I think trying to convince yourself that it’s going to be rewarding and going to be better than scrolling on my phone, I don’t think that we can really even do that. I don’t think that that’s something that I wouldn’t recommend. I think in that scenario it would more be. And actually, like, recently I was struggling with getting filming content and I called my friend who’s still in the PhD. She’s like my best friend, and I called her and she’s like, Em, you’re the one that would always tell me you need to. You need to withhold reward.

Like, what do you want? Like, do you want like a new outfit? Like, what is it that you want? And then get that get clear on like what it is that you want and then don’t give it to yourself until after the big thing has been accomplished, after you’ve done the thing that you want to do. And that’s how you start to train your brain, that it’s more rewarding.

Training Your Brain Like You Train a Dog

A dog doesn’t learn to sit for free. I say that all the time. If you want to teach a dog how to sit, you have to give your dog a treat. And then that treat boosts dopamine. That dopamine drives learning. And then when you learn it and it becomes a habit that you repeat, then it’s just wired in and you’re doing it and you don’t have to think so much about it. And it’s not about convincing yourself, it’s just wired in its automatic behavior.

And then another thing that I talk about a lot in my community, in the people that I coach, is that take a moment after you do accomplish those things or you do. It doesn’t have to be some big goal that you’re accomplishing either. It can maybe be even something small. Like I said, creating content, that’s a stepping stone on the way.

And it can be just as simple as taking a moment to tell yourself, hey, I’m proud of you. Good job, you accomplished that. Self talk boosts dopamine, like self affirmation boosts dopamine. It activates the reward centers in the brain. I used to be, I didn’t used to believe in affirmations. I used to think they were woo woo or whatever. And I was like, no, what is that?

But then I sort of went on my own journey and then of course looked into the neuroscience of it and they really are so powerful and not even necessarily an affirmation track or whatever it is, but speaking to yourself positively and kindly, it’s so, so, so important. And making sure to take a moment to do that and acknowledge yourself when you are working toward the goals.

Because it’s so easy to, you know, just be like, okay, like I posted a video, okay, we’re not necessarily at 10 million yet. So that’s not, we’re not there yet. It’s really easy to do that and get caught up in the big picture and not give yourself the pat on the back for the steps that you’re taking along the way.

And those are the little dopamine boosts that are going to benefit, build momentum, that are going to keep you going, and that are also going to teach your brain that, oh, hey, this behavior, this action that we’re taking is valuable and meaningful.

JAY SHETTY: What purchases do you think young people should delay?

The Power of Delayed Gratification and Personal Rewards

EMILY MCDONALD: It doesn’t have to be a purchase. I’m using this personally for me. I like clothes for me. And then maybe it’s even going and planning. It can be anything, like planning a reward for yourself, like going out to dinner. Let’s say if you’re a foodie, it really depends. So I’m not going to sit here and tell people what’s going to boost their dopamine because it’s very highly individual. Like what is it that you want?

But maybe you love going to the grocery store and buying these one box of cookies that you really like or whatever it is. Maybe there’s something, and also it’s good to switch it up. Like if it’s something that you haven’t done for yourself in a while or like there’s a dessert that you love that you only have on your birthday. It’s like, okay, if I take the steps, if I sign up for this LLC and I get the logo done and I set up the website, I’m going to go get that thing that I get for my birthday and I’m give it to myself now.

So it’s just kind of really anything that makes you. And I think also this is why I always talk about with people is to also have something to look forward to. I think is super important. Whether it’s just like a dinner, because I found in, and this is something I really learned through experience in college and undergrad. But then of course now knowing the neuroscience of it, I would be so much more productive and study so much better when I had plans on Friday night.

And like if you don’t have any plans or anything to look forward to or like a reason to get stuff done quickly, then it’s going to be a lot harder. And also like dopamine is released in anticipation of a good thing happening. It’s not just about reward. It’s also when you are anticipating something. Like from my research studies, that was more tied to craving. Right. But in kind of our day to day lives, it’s anticipation.

The Neuroscience of Anticipation

That’s why when you’re a little kid and it’s the night before Christmas, you can’t fall asleep at night because you’re excited, you’re anticipating something. And actually the day that we were supposed to close on our house, which was like two weeks ago, I woke up that morning feeling like a kid on Christmas. And I was looking into the neuroscience of it actually, because I was like, how do I activate this feeling more every single day? Because it’s a great feeling. That was so productive.

But that was really a day of detachment because we weren’t sure whether or not we were going to close that day. And it was actually as soon as we decided, oh no, it’s not going to happen today, we’ll just drive home. Thankfully got the call and I was like, oh, you’re going to get the keys. And I was like, it’s always when you let go.

So yeah, I think it depends on the person when it comes to what you should delay or what you should do. Purchase. It doesn’t even have to be a purchase. It can be any sort of rewarding thing. Like actually something that I’ve been doing because I have a mountain bike. Not like an avid mountain biker, but I love nature. And I also have a ripstick. I love to ripstick just like around my house or whatever it is.

And so I told myself the other day, actually I was like, I’m going to film this content and then afterward I’m going to ripstick and giving myself that sort of little reward of like, honestly, it’s like playtime. Like not giving myself that, it motivated me to go get because I had something to look forward to and a little reward afterward.

JAY SHETTY: Absolutely. Well said. It definitely works. It definitely works. I can think of so many moments in my life where that’s exactly how I’m focusing on how to get the work done first and then be able to play break afterwards. And the biggest one for me from what you said, that I think really is going to make a difference for people is being kind to yourself in the process, that grace that comes with that and the ability to celebrate the small wins and the progress.

Because if you’re always measuring yourself up against a big goal, you could be waiting a long, long. Yeah, especially when you’re writing a book. I mean that you just told me the cycle of when your book’s going to come out. And that’s what it is. It takes like two, three years to put it together. Then it takes time for it to come out, then you’re promoting it. So the actual result of someone saying, “I love your book and I got so much from it” is so far away. But if that’s what you’re waiting for, it’s going to feel like forever.

Shifting from Outcome to Identity

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, I actually had to switch. This is funny that you say that because when I first started I was very motivated by having a best selling book and writing this book. And quickly did I learn that’s not going to last and we’re not going to be able to push through on this. So I actually shifted from being motivated by kind of the result to, hey, actually I just want to be an author. And being an author is a reward in itself.

And when I acknowledged that, then it became more rewarding to write the book and do the work. And so it was that shift. And I think that’s also why it’s so important to figure out who you want to be and that identity and who it’s going to make you. Because when you can start to kind of identify as that, it’s also very rewarding to embody it as well.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, you’ve said that desperately wanting something actually blocks you from getting it. Which applies to what you just said about your house. Just that moment you let go, you’re like, you got the call that you got your house. Why does desperately wanting something actually block it?

Why Desperate Attachment Blocks Success

EMILY MCDONALD: When you are very attached to an outcome and you desperately want something and it’s to the point where it is kind of raising your stress levels and you are dependent on it or attached to the outcome, it boosts stress and it boosts cortisol and that actually narrows your perception, which gives you a sort of tunnel vision and actually blocks you from being able to perceive or be aware of alternate pathways and alternate routes.

Which is one reason why it can block you from getting it. Because a lot of times, you know, we’ll have a goal and we have something that we want to accomplish. And I know for me personally I had a goal and I had to be very open to alternate pathways in my life. I had to be very open to like, okay, and you know, we’ll go down the road and maybe this road isn’t it and we’ll take a different road. But being able to be open to alternate pathways, that actually you’re less able to do that and you’re less open minded and you have more of tunnel vision whenever you are kind of desperately attached to something.

And also, whenever we are chronically stressed, I mean, that puts us in fight or flight. And when the nervous system is dysregulated, I mean, it becomes way harder to rewire your brain. And I like to use the analogy of a kid in a classroom. Like, if you’re a kid in a classroom and you are being bullied by every single student, it’s going to be really hard to pay attention to the teacher and actually learn what’s being said. But if you feel safe in that classroom, the kid can actually feel safe to learn and pay attention to the teacher and absorb what’s being said.

And it works the same way in our lives. Like, if we’re feeling stressed and anxious all the time, it’s really going to be difficult to be focused on whatever goal that we have. And so that’s another kind of piece of it.

The Incubation Effect

And then there’s another piece of it which is sort of this incubation effect in the brain. And I’m sure you’ve noticed that if you’re sitting there and you’re thinking about a problem or a challenge or you’re wanting an answer to something, and you can’t necessarily think of the way of the answer, but then as soon as you walk away from it and you go for a walk or you’re in the shower or whatever it is, all of a sudden the answer comes and whatever you wanted to say comes. That’s the incubation effect.

And our subconscious mind, or like the other kind of areas in the brain, can process a lot more information and make a lot more connections than our conscious mind can when we’re sort of focusing on something. And so whenever we’re desperately wanting something or attached to it and we’re thinking about it all the time, and we’re kind of stopping that from happening, we’re stopping the incubation effect to do its magic of sort of going to work behind the scenes and coming up with the answers.

And so that’s another reason why letting go can be so helpful and just. And that doesn’t mean that you’re not going to work towards your goals. That doesn’t mean that you’re not going to be focused on your goals, but it means that, you know, you work toward it and you worry about what. You worry about the inputs and you worry about what you can do, but you sort of let go of the how and the when, and you just. And it also allows you to enjoy the journey, which is, which is really important.

And I think that’s if not one of the most important things when it comes to all of it, is enjoying the journey. And I always say, you know, life is about the journey. If it were about the destination, it would be called death. It’s about the journey. And so enjoying the journey is super important. And when you’re desperately attached, especially, you know, when it’s a long term sort of situation, you’re going to be. You’re withholding reward and you’re withholding feeling proud of yourself and feeling accomplished for a long time. And I don’t think that anybody should really live that way either.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, it can be. You can torment yourself.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: You can torture yourself if you do it. And it can lead to greatness, but at what cost, right?

Joy as a Necessity, Not a Luxury

EMILY MCDONALD: It absolutely can. But I, knowing myself, and I think that that’s a very important piece of this and knowing myself is that one of my top values is joy and being able to enjoy my life and enjoy the journey of my life. And so for me, yeah, I think remembering to enjoy the journey, but also I’ve found that I do so much better in my work and creative process when I am in joy.

And so I think that joy isn’t necessarily like a break or like an additional reward, but it also is sort of a necessity if we want our brain to be in its most optimized state. Because tons of studies show that play and being in your joy, it actually boosts creativity and also boosts longevity and our immune system function and all the things. So it’s really good for our physical health as well as our mental health.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You’ve reminded me of two things. One thing I always say to people is, you’ll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagine it. The idea that, that you’re going in the direction, but the path it’s going to take is going to be totally different.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: And so what you want may even change if you’re moving at the pace you want to go. And one of the things I love that you said, your values, joy. One of my values, deep values, is love. And I always say to myself, I always want to move at the pace of love. I want to move as fast as I can while still loving it.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah.

Moving at the Pace of Love

JAY SHETTY: Because if I start hating it, then it’s not worth it, even if I move three times the speed that I’m at right now.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: Because I want to move at the pace of love. I want to move at a pace that I’m in love with myself, I’m in love with what I’m doing and I’m in love with what I’m serving rather than I’m moving really, really fast. We’re getting there, but I actually hate it and I’m upset myself.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, I think it’s super important to know in Minecraft, in the very beginning, I have people get to know themselves and their key values, because in my business, actually, like working in business, I’ve had kind of, I don’t want to use the word standoffs, but situations where I’ve had to bring up. And so mine, when I have mine broken down into three parts, and one of the parts is to be to have love and joy.

And for me, it’s the exact same way. It’s like, yes, we could do all of this and we could move at this speed, and we could, but at the cost of my love, at the cost of feeling love and joy, it’s not worth it to me. And so I completely resonate with that.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

EMILY MCDONALD: What.

JAY SHETTY: What is the number one thing people are coming to you in Minecraft, in your community, for coaching? What’s the number one thing you’re seeing amongst young people?

Understanding Manifestation Through Neuroscience

EMILY MCDONALD: Mindcraft has a pretty wide range. I would say it’s from like 20s up till 60s. So we’ve got a pretty wide range of people. The reasons why people come into Mindcraft are pretty variable. But I think I like that you asked the question about people feeling stuck, because I think that’s a big reason why people do come to Mindcraft.

Understanding the neuroscience of how life works and how the brain builds reality is sort of an eye opener. It was an eye opener for me. It’s an eye opener for a lot of people. But then also seeing how your brain is really directing you and then directing how you feel and your actions and all that. I think a big reason is that people do feel stuck.

I got to meet with some people in Mindcraft in person recently, and one person said that he joined because he wanted to find purpose in his life and connect more deeply with his spirituality. And he found that not only did he find his purpose, but he actually just launched a nonprofit, which is super cool.

A lot of people, surprisingly, and I guess surprisingly or not, I don’t really know what I was expecting when I started Mindcraft. I just sort of started it because I wanted to give people everything that helped me get to where I am in one place. But I’ve found that a lot of people end up quitting their 9 to 5 job and starting their own thing. And of course there are people who love their nine to five jobs and they’re in them.

But surprisingly, a lot of people do embark on that journey. And so I think a lot of people join because they want to really find what lights them up and what calls to them. And I think that when you figure out who you are on a super deep level and you then figure out how your brain works and you understand all the little nuances of focus and stress and anxiety and nervous system regulation and of course identity and your sense of self and how all that works, then you kind of have this sort of freedom to go and create the life that you really want.

JAY SHETTY: What’s your take on manifestation?

EMILY MCDONALD: I’m 100,000% believe in manifestation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think a lot of people don’t believe in manifestation because they think that it’s this thing where you just sit down and think until it pops up into your reality. And I don’t really see it that way.

So I guess my take on manifestation is really sort of just understanding the neuroscience of reality and how the brain works. There’s actually a really cool study. So I’ll tell you about this study. This study actually really greatly explains how manifestation works, at least in my eyes.

The Kitten Study: How Our Brain Shapes Reality

So there’s a study done in the 1970s where they took kittens and they raised one group of kittens. They raised them all in complete darkness. They took one group of kittens. They showed them only horizontal lines, horizontal black and white lines. So they’re raised mostly in complete darkness, except for a few hours a day where they’re shown only horizontal black and white lines. And then a different group was shown only vertical black and white lines.

They allowed their brains to develop through their adolescence. And then when their brains were more developed, their visual systems were developed, they put them in a normal environment with chairs and tables and all the things. And what they found was that the kittens that were raised to only see horizontal lines, they couldn’t see vertical objects. They would bump into table legs and chair legs because their brains weren’t programmed or wired to see them.

The brain develops in a way that helps us survive in our environment that we grew up in. And so the kittens that could only see the vertical lines as they were raised, they could see, they would weave in and out of table legs and chair legs and all that, but they wouldn’t jump up onto tabletops or chairs to perch the way that the kittens that were raised to see horizontal lines would.

And so I think that that study really showed me that if the way that kittens were raised determined what they could then see or perceive in their reality, what am I missing in my life because of the way that my brain is wired and the way that I was programmed by my environment? And I think that’s where sort of certain activities like shadow work kind of come in.

But recognizing that you really can only see in your reality what your brain is wired for. And so that job, that relationship, that thing that you’re trying to manifest or create into your life, it might be right in front of you, but you’re missing it because your brain is not programmed to see it or construct it.

And it’s super cool because there was someone who came to my master class. I host free masterclasses. And he said he had been searching for a job for two years. And two weeks after the masterclass, he got his dream job. And to me, it’s just a really cool example. But when you wire your brain to become a match, and so that’s what really it’s all about.

Becoming a Match for What You Want

It’s sort of that neuroscience meets law of attraction sort of situation where when you wire your brain to become a match so that it can actually construct the experience that you’re wanting to experience, that’s when you can see it. And that’s why I say you need to act like it or you need to be it before you can see it. It’s because the brain has to be a match for it in order to even construct whatever it is.

You can be in the best relationship ever, but make it toxic or you won’t be perceiving it as that if your brain isn’t wired to be in a healthy relationship. And so I think it really is about rewiring your brain so that you can perceive the things that you want. And so for me, that’s what manifestation is all about.

For me, manifestation is, I guess, an entire mental game. It is about rewiring your brain so that you can become a match to whatever it is that you want. But then, of course, that requires action. You don’t, rewiring your brain, yes, it can be done through visualization and all of that, but a lot of the circuitry, habit formation, all that, a lot of it comes from action and from doing.

And so I do think that of course, it requires action, but taking aligned action. And I think that it’s important to recognize that when you have action but your brain isn’t programmed to see it, then you’ll be taking action for a long time. You might achieve it, you might not. But when, and when you’re of course only doing the brain component or the energetic component of it, the mental component, you might become this great thing. But then it’s going to take action for you to go.

And I think that when you have both, your brain is programmed for whatever it is that you want, and you’re taking action toward what you want, then that’s when you become completely unstoppable.

Expanding Your Mind Beyond Limitations

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. It’s so interesting to hear about the exposure of the kittens. What they had the vertical and horizontal lines. I remember I was coaching someone a few years back, and they told me that the richest person they knew made $100,000 a year. And so then I introduced them to someone who made $100,000 a month. And they were like, “Oh, my God, I didn’t know you could make a hundred thousand dollars a month.”

Then I introduced them to someone who made a hundred thousand dollars a day. And then they’re like, “Oh, wait a minute, I didn’t know you could make $100,000 a day.” And then I introduced them to someone who makes $100,000 an hour. And it was just incredible to watch their mind expand because it was just a glitch almost in their belief system of what was possible.

And that wasn’t about that person wanting to become really rich or wealthy. It was just about the idea of, can you expand the mind out enough to be exposed to something that it hasn’t seen before and heard before? And all of a sudden, the person’s being able to wire differently and being able to conceptualize dreams and businesses and ideas that they never have because they just want to work.

And I always think about that, what’s the prison that we’ve created for ourselves? No matter how big your world is or how small your world is, it just ends up being that size. And it’s hard to do that if you haven’t left your town or met someone outside of your landscape or met someone in a different career path.

I mean, I talk about it all the time. Growing up, I didn’t know anyone who looked like me, who worked in media or was on television or worked in any sort of way. I just didn’t see anyone. And if you haven’t seen it, it’s so hard to experience it or dream to become it because you just think people like you don’t do that.

EMILY MCDONALD: Right, exactly. And that’s why I’m really big on normalizing your dreams to yourself because, yeah, exactly. If your brain hasn’t been exposed to it, it’s going to be really hard to honestly even set the goal for yourself to be it or have it.

And I’ve definitely had people, my business partner and fiance, he definitely showed me a lot on the business side of things that I had never experienced before. And I was like, “Whoa, there’s a whole different world out there that I didn’t know existed.” But then also kind of more in the content creation space and meeting people when I did.

The Power of Moving and New Environments

I’m big into moving and I love that you said that if you haven’t been outside of your hometown. Because for me, moving is just an incredible way to level up your life. And I love to talk about the brain also being an association machine. So the brain loves to make connections and associations between things.

And when you move into a new environment, the brain has no prior associations to anything. It’s a clean slate. So it’s really easy to establish a new identity or sort of new beliefs or a new mindset in a new environment because your brain has no prior associations to kind of hold you back in that past version of yourself. And so it’s really easy to start anew.

But yeah, and I love going and putting myself in environments where I’m being around people or places or things that are expanding my mind. It’s an incredible way to level up in your life and in your mindset and in your ability to even set goals for yourself. Because I think for a long time for me, I didn’t even know what I wanted to do or be or have. I didn’t know any of it.

And so I think exposing myself to that and when I moved across the country to Miami, I didn’t know a single person there. But being around certain people, I knew I was like, this person, not necessarily do they resonate with me, but I know that they were brought into my reality to show me what’s possible. And it really did expand my mind. So I’m grateful for that.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. How do we manifest based on neuroscience? How would neuroscience suggest we do that?

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah. So I have a three step process.

JAY SHETTY: I love them. I love them too. I know you do. I know you have a three step process.

The Three-Step Manifestation Process

EMILY MCDONALD: I love me some steps. And making it simple, that goes back to my scientist days. So when it comes to manifesting, it really is the same thing for anything that you want.

So the first step is to identify the feelings. Identify the feelings that you believe the thing that you want is going to bring you. I always say you don’t want the thing that you want. You want the feeling that you believe the thing that you want is going to bring you.

So for example, if you are wanting a relationship, then the feeling you might be after is to be loved and feel safe and supported. If you’re wanting a whole bunch of money, it might be freedom, it might be security, again, safety and security and freedom. Whatever it is, right?

So those are a few examples. But whatever it is that you want, write down whatever it is that you want. And then write down the feelings that you believe those things that you want are going to bring you. It’s super important to identify the feelings.

And I get a lot of questions from people, what if I don’t know what I want? If you don’t know what you want, that’s fine. You can still write down the feelings that you want. Because I think a lot of times maybe we don’t know. And I think a lot of times also we think we know what we want, but we don’t really know what we want. But it really is the feeling that we’re after. And so identify the feelings. That’s the first step. Identify the feelings and write them down.

And then from there make two lists. The first list is a list of reasons why you already have to feel that way. And so, for example, for me, I actually held a manifestation workshop in my community and I was manifest. I always use personal examples. So mine was a million followers on Instagram and I didn’t have it at the time.

And I live on that call. I realized, oh, what I’m really after is feeling official and accomplished. I want to feel official and accomplished. That’s really what I want. And so then I identified those feelings, right?

And so then the next step is to write a list of reasons I already have to feel that way. I think a lot of times, again, our brain isn’t even letting us acknowledge that we actually can already feel that way in the present. And I was, I already have this business. I’m coaching people, I’m changing lives. I have a giant following on social media, even if it’s not a million. I have a lot of reasons to feel official and accomplished already.

And writing a list of all those reasons out, and I have people in my community that they print out their resume and put it in their bathroom mirror, all of the things that they’ve done to make them feel that way. But write down a list of the reasons why you already have to feel that way.

JAY SHETTY: That’s brilliant. I love that.

EMILY MCDONALD: And then the second list is a list of things, right? So sometimes people will be, well, I don’t have any reason to feel that way. Which to that I would argue, try harder. But there’s another list, and the list is a list of things that you can give yourself, that you are in control over to feel that way.

So if I’m trying to feel official and accomplished, what can I do today to make myself feel more accomplished? Well, for me, I always feel accomplished after I complete a workout. I always feel, I know that I’m writing a book. I can go write a few pages of my book that will help me feel accomplished.

And so again, what will help me feel official? I mean, the definition, what does official mean to me? I guess for me, it’s just, oh, I made it. And I guess that for that I could go and maybe read comments of people saying, oh, you really helped me, or whatever it is. So what are some activities that you can do to give yourself that feeling?

And I think combining the two is important, right? Because again, acknowledging all the reasons why you already have to feel that way, but then also becoming more aware of things that you can do in the moment to make yourself feel that way.

And when you start doing that, and after two months after doing that practice on myself, I had a million followers on Instagram. And I do believe and know that it shifted my energy, right? I’m creating now from a different space of feeling more official and accomplished.

And so I think that that kind of process of identifying the feelings, recognizing all the reasons you already have to feel that way, and then becoming aware of things that you can do to help yourself feel that way even more. When you start doing that now, you have the feelings that you want already, and now you’re in a place where you can also be detached from the outcome.

It’s not going to stop you. You should still go and work toward the thing that you’re wanting, right? But that’s how you rewire your brain. So that’s sort of the neuroscience component. Of course, we could go way deeper into this and talk about this for hours. But this is sort of my short condensed three step neuroscience component to becoming a match to whatever it is that you want.

And now when you’re going and working toward the journey, when I was going and working toward a million followers, now I’m working toward it with a different energy. I’m working toward it as a match to whatever it is that I want.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, that match piece is brilliant. I love the way you broke that down. I think we all forget how many difficult things we’ve already done and how many amazing barriers that we’ve already broken through and how many challenges we’ve already overcome.

And if you just took a moment to recognize that, yeah, you’d feel so confident. Because each and every person who’s listening to us has been through hell and back in their own way. And that experience is something we kind of take for granted. We just don’t. We don’t realize how hard it was because to us it was normal.

EMILY MCDONALD: Right.

JAY SHETTY: We don’t recognize just how much beauty there is in it. That’s brilliant. Do you believe that you can miss something if it was meant for you?

Divine Timing and Missing Your Destiny

EMILY MCDONALD: I don’t. I don’t believe that you can miss something that’s meant for you. Because I think that really we are on this journey to learn lessons and level up in our own little game of life. And so I don’t believe that.

And I think that if there is something that you think that you missed out on that you believe was meant for you, I think that I’m a firm believer in divine timing. So everything happens in divine timing. Maybe not at that time, but it will come around and cycle back.

I think that also life happens in these sort of cycles where every time you level up or just, you’ll still see the same situation over and over again. So I don’t think that you can miss something that was meant for you if you’re not a match for whatever it is that you want. I do think that you can miss it. But then in that case, it wasn’t meant for you. In that, at that time, I think.

Transforming Jealousy Into Motivation

JAY SHETTY: You were talking about how if you judge someone, you can internalize those same things that you’re judging about. And I really like that you brought that out because I think one of the other biggest distractions right now is actually jealousy, comparison, gossip.

There’s a sense of we’ll talk about the person. It’s what you said was your fear with even becoming more public and being more vulnerable. Is that people put themselves out there, then other people point to them, either make fun of it or call it cringe or whatever it may be. And then we don’t realize we’re actually just setting ourselves up for failure, too, because then we’re not able to put ourselves out there.

Talk to me about what do we do with feelings of jealousy and comparison when they’re so human, they’re natural for us all to feel, but how do we transform them into something actually useful for us rather than something unhealthy?

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, I think for jealousy, a huge thing that I would do when I first, I don’t remember where I learned this from, but I have a mantra or a statement that I say. And when I see somebody with something that I want, I say, “That’s for me.”

And I think jealousy, a lot of time is, it is just fear with a mask. It’s fear that we can’t have it too. It’s fear that this person can achieve this goal or have this thing, and I can’t have it. And so I’m going to be jealous of them.

And I think that it is sort of a limiting belief and a limiting kind of mindset and behavior to be jealous of somebody because you’re basically telling your brain that you can’t have it. Whenever you’re jealous of someone, you’re basically reinforcing to yourself, that’s not for me.

And so recognizing that, that when you’re jealous of someone, you’re teaching your brain, that’s not for me. Then you’re, oh, wow, I don’t want to do that anymore. I don’t want to teach my brain.

And I think that a lot of times we are shown things in reality to see them. And when our brain is triggered by this thing, it’s because we actually want it to. And it’s to be shown something that we can then go and work toward.

And so I started saying to myself, “That’s for me.” And I remember actually when I first moved to Miami and I was on the beach, and I went on the beach, and there’s this couple having the super romantic picnic on the sand. And I was very single. And I just, I remember looking at them and I took a video. I was, “That’s for me.” Just being so…

JAY SHETTY: You took a creepy video from afar.

EMILY MCDONALD: That’s for me too. And it’s really cool, though, because I think maybe it was about a year later that, I’m less than that, actually, that I met my fiancé and then we were both in Florida and we were doing that. So it’s super cool how that works.

So yeah, I think recognizing that you don’t want to teach your brain that you’re limited in that way. Teach your brain that that’s possible for you too. And so recognizing that, that’s really what jealousy is. It’s just fear with a mask.

Worthiness and Deserving What You Want

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I really like the idea of “that’s for me.” And the idea that when you are jealous of someone, it’s actually saying “that’s not for me.” And that is the emotion that blocks you because, and then you justify it. You come up with so many reasons for why you don’t like what that person’s doing or so many reasons for why you deserve that and they don’t. But none of that actually motivates you to get out there.

How much do you believe that our matching is feeling we’re worthy of something or deserving of something? When you say “that’s for me,” that’s you saying, well, I deserve a love like that. I deserve a picnic on the beach like that. How much do we struggle, what’s happening in the brain when we’re struggling with feeling worthy or deserving of that?

Worthiness and Self-Love

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, I think it really is just a worthiness component to it. And I think that there are different components to achieving whatever it is that we want or having whatever it is we want. Believing that it’s possible is huge, but also believing that you are deserving and worthy of it.

Worthiness comes down to self-love and knowing yourself. And I think self-love really is one of the biggest components to all of this that we’re talking about today and loving yourself. And so, and loving yourself is about more than just doing self-love practices. It’s also about knowing yourself and knowing who you are in the light parts and also in the dark parts and giving yourself grace and also accepting all that you are and accepting every single piece of yourself.

And so when it comes to self-love, of course there are so many. I mean the first thing on that, what I would say is really your self-talk and recognizing how you’re talking to yourself is so important. But I’ve seen insane shifts in my own life when I have decided that I’m worthy of something.

And a lot of times we don’t. Again, it’s sort of on that same playing field of getting specific about your fears, like getting specific about your limiting beliefs and where you are limiting yourself. And I think that worthiness is a big component to that and so recognizing that you are worthy of whatever it is that you want is so important.

And yeah, I mean, you can, of course, make a list of all the reasons why you deserve it and why you are worthy of it. And that’s great. But also, it really can just be a decision to decide that I am worthy of this, I am worthy of this, and I do deserve it. And really stepping into that.

And if you don’t believe that you’re worthy of it, then that’s again, an area where you can take it all the way to the end and ask yourself, why? Why don’t I believe that I’m worthy of this? And then getting clear on that, and getting clear on your why. And then again, you can rewrite the story from there and kind of create a new narrative around whether or not you’re worthy of something.

Abundance as a Spiritual Practice

But back whenever I was in the PhD, I would go to this temple all the time and hang out with all these monks. And I got really close with a couple of them. And I think one of my greatest takeaways from the time that I spent there and just learning from them and talking to them is that wanting things, wanting material things and physical things, whether it’s money or a job or a relationship, whatever it is, it’s not a bad thing.

It’s not bad to want to make more money. It’s not bad. It’s actually one of the most spiritual things that you can do is to be abundant, because that’s the state of nature is abundant. When a tree blossoms with fruit, it’s abundant with fruit. And so we are abundant by nature. And recognizing that, and that the divine by nature is abundant.

And so recognizing that you deserve to be abundant as well and recognizing that honestly really helped me, because before that I thought. And I think this is also where a lot of the hate or. Because I’ve got. I’ve seen people before say things like, oh, it’s bad to want money. I don’t like money, and all that. I think a lot of it comes from that place as well. It’s thinking that it’s bad or feeling guilty or shameful for wanting to achieve it.

And I think it’s really important to recognize that you don’t need to feel shameful or guilty for wanting things. That’s actually. Actually, you came here to expand consciousness and expand along with the universe. Universe is expanding. We’re here to expand. And a lot of times that does mean to go after whatever material thing that we’re wanting.

And that’s, that’s again, it’s not about the material thing. It’s about who we’re going to become on the journey toward achieving the material thing. But if the material thing is driving you, that’s not a bad thing. And you don’t have to feel ashamed of it and you can actually feel worthy of it.

Shame and Guilt as Limiting Beliefs

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. It’s so interesting how we think of limiting beliefs as being I’m not good enough or I’m not smart enough to. But shame and guilt can be limiting beliefs as well. I don’t. I feel like if I want that, then I’m a bad person and if I want that then I’m not a good person or whatever it may be. And what do we do with that? What do we do with limiting beliefs of I’m not good enough and what do we do with the shame and guilt of maybe I’m not a good person if I want that?

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah. So on the I’m not good enough piece, I think that’s where I like to adopt the game of life mindset. When you make it to a new level of a game, you’re good enough to get there because you passed the previous level and you’re on this new level. But are you really good enough to play this level yet? No. You haven’t learned the way this level works. You haven’t learned the ins and outs.

Usually it takes you a few tries and you’ve got to go and navigate and learn the rules of this new level of life and this level of the game. And so are you good enough to be on this level? Maybe not, but you’re good enough to pass the previous one. But recognizing that that’s okay. You’re not meant to be perfect at this new level yet. You just got there.

And so recognizing, for me, I’m starting to write, I might not be good enough to be a best-selling author yet, but it’s going to be the journey that’s going to make me into one. And so I think giving yourself permission actually to not be good enough to do the thing.

And I mean of course, understanding who you are and knowing yourself and being confident, I think I have a hot take when it comes to confidence that it doesn’t have to. Confidence isn’t about achievements or accomplishments. Confidence is knowing who you are.

Knowing Who You Are

And I have a track on all streaming platforms. I’m not trying to plug this right now, but it’s called “You Don’t Even Realize Who You Are.” And I think for me, whenever I was first starting the journey to go into the PhD and moving to Arizona, where I didn’t know a single person there. I had people asking me, aren’t you afraid? Are you nervous? And I wasn’t at all.

And thinking about why I wasn’t. It was because I had just embarked on this journey of self-improvement and knowing myself and self-awareness and also a huge spiritual journey that I was on. And I think that those two things together and this sort of trust and surrender mentality. I had trust and surrender written on sticky notes everywhere.

Did I necessarily think I was good enough to be. To be this amazing scientist doing all these things? I don’t know if I really believed that, but I believe that I was capable of being good enough to do it. So recognizing, of course, innately I am worthy, but also mentally and physically, maybe I haven’t gained those skills yet, but that’s okay. I don’t need to have those skills yet.

From there, you can really, again, it all comes back to your why of why you want those things. For me, I don’t feel shame. I don’t feel ashamed or guilty for saying I wanted a million followers because I know that that with my platform growing, then I can impact and help more people. And that’s my overall goal.

And so, yes, of course, I want a million followers. Honestly, if I’m being honest with myself, I want even more. And that’s okay to want that. But also understanding that what is driving me to even build this from the beginning, because I never even. My plan was never to be a content creator in the first place. I was just becoming a scientist. And then the content about science was taking off.

It really is about helping people reach their maximum potential and giving people the information that I wish I had had whenever I was younger that I didn’t have. And so recognizing my why and other people don’t need to know that.

Being Misunderstood Is the Tax for Being Authentic

And I think one of the things that I’ve had to really release on my journey is being understood and accepted by everyone. And when you are, I always say that being misunderstood is the tax that you pay for being authentic. And so an authenticity is the most magnetic energy that you could possibly have. You are so powerful. Because that’s really. If I had to name a purpose that can be distilled down to everyone. That is your purpose to be you.

Because you came to this planet to be exactly who you are. You were made on purpose. And so that is your purpose to be you. Being yourself and being authentic is super powerful. And me kind of being myself and sharing that, that is me just being authentic. But also I don’t feel ashamed for it because I know my why, and I know that it’s a lot bigger than me, and I know that it’s going to be helpful for people, and that’s what’s driving me.

And there are people that, I can’t speak for everyone, but there are people in my personal life that want to make more money, and they are driven by money. And I think from there it’s, okay, but what is your why? Why do you want to make more money? And a lot of times it’s okay. I want to be able to take care of my family. I want to be able to have a sense of freedom and safety and security. I don’t want to have to worry about certain things. And that is completely valid and okay.

And I think, again, you mentioned giving yourself grace before, and that’s something that I’ve recognized through working with people, people that most people do not give themselves enough grace. We really do. And forgiveness is powerful practice, forgiving others, but also forgiving yourself.

Rewriting Learned Stories

But I think that when it comes to feeling guilty or feeling shameful, I think thinking about it from the neuroscience perspective, to kind of attack from both sides here, realizing that you learned that story, and that doesn’t mean that it’s true. And so if you feel guilty for wanting money or a specific job, if you feel that, if you feel like that makes you a bad person, realize that you learned that from somewhere. And that doesn’t mean that it’s truth. It means that that’s what was programmed into you.

And from there, and this is what I tell people with limiting beliefs as well, is look for evidence of the opposite. Look for evidence of people. And I have people. Someone in my community was like, oh, yeah, there’s this guy who’s super rich, multimillionaire, and he uses that money and donates it to charity and does a lot of great things. And so that’s a great example of someone who has gone out and made a lot of money and then used it for good.

And so, of course, there are. Are the opposite side of that as well. But that doesn’t. That doesn’t mean that that’s going to be you. And so recognizing that is important, too.

Being a Student of Your Own Work

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, what I appreciate is you’re such a student of your own work. You’re testing these things out on yourself. You’re creating the things you wanted when you were younger. What’s the work you’re doing on yourself right now? What are you working on and building for yourself right now?

EMILY MCDONALD: Recently I have been doing a lot of releasing of being accepted and understood by other people. That’s something that I’ve been writing down a lot in my journal, but also tapping back into my more my creative side.

Something I live and swear by is doing morning brain dumps. So every single morning I wake up and I just, I write for about 30 minutes in my journal and I just write and I practice. It’s great for a lot of reasons, but also it is a great way of practicing non-judgment of yourself. If you just allow yourself to get into flow and just write in your journal without judging it, without really overthinking it, but just stream of consciousness writing, it’s really kind of priming your brain for flow for the rest of the day as well as practicing non-judgment of yourself and getting into more of a creative state.

But also it’s a really great way to observe your own patterns too. So I love kind of analyzing myself in that way. But that’s really something that I’ve been tapping into and also I guess just really giving myself more grace because the past few weeks have been insane in my life. We’re. We just closed on a house and we’re moving and getting engaged and all that.

And I think I was telling you, the house is a mess, we don’t have furniture and there’s a lot going on. But recognizing that the messy middle is proof of growth and sometimes the in-between stages mean that you’re growing and leveling up. And so giving myself grace and that as well and recognizing, okay, yeah, things are not put together right now. We are not settled. I feel displaced. I feel a little bit all over the place.

But recognizing that that means that I’m in a journey of level up is a good sort of mindset to have while doing this. So I would say that those are really some of the key things that I’m working, I’m kind of acknowledging and wiring into my brain right now.

JAY SHETTY: You’re releasing the need to be accepted by people. What is the part of you that is craving to be accepted that you’re trying to release?

EMILY MCDONALD: So I think for me, I guess me understanding my why and understanding that I really am here to just help people in every way that I can. It’s sort of tough when you see comments or get DMs from people and I mean people have negative things to say or they pick on certain things like, oh, I can’t believe that you would do this or whatever. And it’s just like, damn, I’m trying so hard to be a positive force for good.

And no matter what I do, it seems like so and so I’ve recognized sort of recently that maybe it’s having a little more effect on me than I would like it to. And so becoming aware of that and now also recognizing that I think a big thing that I’ve realized and I guess another thing that I’ve been working on a lot lately is play and being in my joy more.

Because actually we were in Sedona a couple weeks ago and it was funny because, and this is, you had mentioned a little bit about the videos, like what you put out and what you put onto people is actually mirrored in your brain and you’re really putting it onto yourself. But we went to this aura reading thing and Alec, he asked me, he was like, what color is my aura going to be? And I told him brown. And he’s like, what’s yours? Mine’s going to be gold. And we go there and mine was brown. And it really is true. You get what you give and there’s tons of neuroscience behind it.

JAY SHETTY: Was his gold?

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, it was gold. Yeah. And it really is like, I mean, obviously you kind of mentioned it a little bit, but when you talk badly about other people or just make any sort of comments, you are activating those pathways in your brain. And so your brain isn’t necessarily even making the difference that it’s about someone else. You’re just focusing on that emotion and you’re focusing on negativity or complaining.

And for me, it’s like, okay, yeah, I’m focusing on that brown aura. But really what I was told in that was you need to be pouring into yourself more. You’re pouring into a lot of other people and you need to be pouring back into yourself more. And I’ve come to recognize that the comparison, the jealousy, the being bothered by what other people have to say, it has a lot less of an effect when you’re actually really enjoying your life.

Pouring back into myself more and spending more time in play and going on my ripstick and going hiking and playing with my dog, but allowing myself to actually be in my joy more often and pouring more into myself is actually something that I’ve been doing more often that I kind of fell off of doing. And I think that’s one way that I am kind of lessening the effect of that, because, yeah, I recognize that it was having more of an effect on me. And I have learned that those comments and what other people have to say, it really has less effect on you when you are actually truly enjoying your own life and feeling confident in yourself.

The Neuroscience of Reality

And I also had a dream. I had this dream about the neuroscience of reality and why you shouldn’t listen to what other people have to say. And that actually, of course, it told me everything I needed to know. And I made a video about it, and it was basically the neuroscience of reality in short, is just the idea and understanding how the brain works, that your brain is constructing your entire experience of reality.

Everything that you hear, see, you don’t see with your eyes, you see with your brain. All your eyes do is just take in light signals. And then those light signals travel through the brain where your thoughts and your emotions and your beliefs and your past, it’s all incorporated before the image is even put together that you see.

This is why they’ve shown differences in activity in people that when they look in the mirror, they have sort of dysmorphia or whatever it is, they’ve shown differences in brain activity in those people. So it’s not just that, oh, it’s all in their head, but really their brain is actually constructing the image of them differently.

And so this works with everything in your reality. This is just how it works. It’s not just vision also, it’s same thing with sound, all of it. And so recognizing that, what that means is my brain is different than your brain. You live in a completely different world than I do because your brain is constructing the world differently. You have a different brain, and so it’s constructing a different world.

And this is why actually, science shows that no two people see color the exact same way, because no two people have the exact same brain. I used to work in a color vision lab, and I got to see how different objects were plotted on this color map and how different individuals would see the same color fruit. And it was pretty cool to see that.

And so recognizing that every single person is seeing the world differently, they’re essentially living in a different reality. And so when somebody makes a comment or they say something that might be actually true for their reality, it might be true for them. That might be the world that they live in. But that doesn’t mean that it has to be the world that I live in and doesn’t mean that it has to be true for my reality.

And so recognizing that. And of course, everybody’s on their own journey, their own timeline, their own path. They have their own programming. Like the kittens. Imagine the kittens that were raised with the horizontal lines giving advice to the kittens with the vertical line. The kittens with vertical lines would be like, what are you talking about? That doesn’t make sense at all.

And it’s the same thing for people. We’re all programmed and raised differently, and that’s why we should take what resonates and leave what does not resonate. But also, I think that that’s given me a lot of reassurance. So thankful for that dream, but it’s given me a lot of reassurance on my journey of releasing that.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, that’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. I wanted to talk to people about love. You just got engaged two weeks ago, and you’ve said that you don’t attract what you want. You attract what your brain is wired for. And I wanted to ask you for anyone right now who’s in that space where they’re like, I want to be in love. I want to find my person, but maybe they just got broken up with. What do you do when you’re feeling, going back to what we talked about earlier, you’re almost feeling so desperate that you just want to find this person. And you keep hearing different forms of advice. Someone’s like, yeah, you just got to get on the apps. You got to focus. And the other person saying, no, you’ll find someone when you’re least interested in looking for them. People are confused. Where do they start? From a neuroscience point of view.

Dating Like a Scientist

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah. So I can share my story of it all. And of course, it’s really funny because whenever I was still dating, I used to, people in my life would be like, you date like a scientist. And I absolutely did date like a scientist. So everything I like to be super intentional with the way that I do.

So whenever I would date people or go on dates or whatever it is, like I said, you do have to be a match for it, but also you should be sort of putting yourself in positions. But so I would go on dates and stuff or whatever. And actually what ended up happening was I ended up with a list. I love lists, if that’s not obvious. I ended up with a list of all the different qualities that I wanted in a partner because I became very aware and clear of what I didn’t like in people and what I did, at least for myself. Right.

And so these weren’t necessarily physical attributes, but values and different characteristics of a person. I took stock of, okay, where am I a match to that and where am I not? If I’m wanting someone that’s physically active and physically healthy and into fitness and likes to eat healthy and all that, am I living that lifestyle? Right? Am I a match for that?

And so I think that’s the first step is getting super clear. And I think also understanding what you want is very important when it comes to wanting to date someone or wanting to meet your person. That’s honestly what I did is I would treat it like an experiment and collect data of all the different things that I valued and things that I didn’t. And then on that list, recognizing, okay, where am I out of sync with whatever it is that I’m asking for? Am I asking for something that I’m not currently embodying? And then embodying that.

And then, honestly, what happened was I did give up. I did actually give up. I met my fiance literally the same week I had said to my friends, I’m giving up on dating. I went through a little bit of a talking stage and then ended it. And I was like, I’m giving up. I’m just going to focus on my business. I’m going to focus on content. I’m just going to do me.

And literally, I was in the middle of doing me, and you heard the story of how we met, but we met on a work call. So I was in the process of doing me. And I think that it really does work well when it happens that way, because I met someone that was literally my perfect match. And it was really cool because I think maybe like a few weeks after we officially started dating or whatever it was, I went back and looked at the list, and he checks every single box on that list. And so it works.

And I think from that, for that, I also tell people, don’t ever settle. Don’t settle for a person. And it was really cool because it was that moment of like, oh, that’s what it’s supposed to feel like. For so long, I was fighting to make certain things work, or trying to explain myself in situations or whatever it is, but then finding that person that really understands you, that you don’t have to over explain yourself all the time is really incredible.

But yeah, and so I guess just again, getting clear on the feelings that you want. And I think when it comes to manifesting love from the neuroscience perspective of it, you do have to date yourself and people do say that. And you do, you do have to be in love with yourself and you do have to date yourself and you do need to have a really good relationship with yourself.

Because I mean the truth is that relationships are, they are work and you do have to pour into them and there are going to be moments where you’re going to maybe not see it the same way, but understanding yourself and really being really confident in who you are is really important even for the longevity of a relationship. So it’s more than just about finding your person, but also making that relationship last and making it a healthy relationship.

Dating yourself and really being in love with yourself and having a positive relationship with yourself is super important. So I think, of course, then again, follow the three step process that I said earlier. Identify the feelings that you want the person to give you. Do you want them to make you feel safe? Do you want them to make you feel supported? Are you making yourself feel supportive? Do you support yourself? Do you celebrate yourself?

If you want someone to celebrate you, are you celebrating yourself? Because the way that it works is then if you get into a relationship, you start dating someone or whatever it is and they don’t celebrate you. If you don’t celebrate yourself, you might let that slide. But if you’re celebrating yourself and you’re loving yourself and showing yourself all of the, being for yourself, all of the things that you’re wanting from someone else, then you would, settling wouldn’t even be in your vocabulary.

Because as soon as somebody didn’t do something that you would do for yourself, little switch would go off in your brain and be like, okay, something is a mismatch here. And it’s not, maybe it’s not completely a match or maybe it’s something you need to communicate. But either way, again, giving yourself all the feelings that you want to have from that person is then going to make you a match for it.

And then also whenever you’re dating someone that’s not a match again, that’s where your question of do you think that you can miss something that’s meant for you? This is going to make you better at missing things that are not meant for you.

JAY SHETTY: Well said. Yeah, it’s been great. I’ve learned so much and I think we’ve touched on everything from manifestation to relationships, to people dealing with self doubt, to people knowing their values, getting to know themselves, being able to understand. My biggest takeaway has been this idea of the mismatch of identity with goal or even identity with person. And I think that’s going to help so many people. And I love all your steps and lists. Keep them coming, they’re great.

The Final Five

But Emily, we end every episode of On Purpose with the final five. These questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum for each of them. And then sometimes, sometimes I’ll break the rules, but I’ll let you know. So the first question is, what is the best advice you’ve ever heard or received?

The Power of Following What Lights You Up

EMILY MCDONALD: The best piece of advice I’ve ever heard or received is don’t follow or do what you think you should do or what you think is going to work. But follow or do the thing that most lights you up, because that’s the thing that you’re going to make work in the end.

JAY SHETTY: Well said. Question number two. What is the worst advice you’ve ever heard or received?

EMILY MCDONALD: You have to do, you have to follow this diet or you have to create content this way. You have to have this schedule for posting. You have to do this, that or the other. I think when you try to follow specific step by step paths that work for other people, and I think for the same reason of the neuroscience of reality and that you live in a different world, it might be true for somebody else’s world, but it’s not necessarily true for your world and your reality.

And so I think any piece of advice that any, my answer would be any piece of advice that is calling you to go against your own intuition.

Morning Practices for Success

JAY SHETTY: Question number three, for anyone who’s listening to this, when they wake up tomorrow morning, what’s one thing you’d like them to try or do differently?

EMILY MCDONALD: All right. When you wake up tomorrow morning, well, before you went to bed, I hope you didn’t give yourself a whole bunch of cheap dopamine so that your dopamine stores can replenish themselves. But I would like them to try the three movement, mindset, and mindfulness. And they can be done in any order. But these three components, in the morning, they make you that deeply rooted tree so that you’re not swayed in the wind of life.

And it can be as short as 15 minutes. It can take you two hours. For me, it depends on the day. But movement is super important. I mean, every single night, as you sleep, your brain dumps a whole bunch of waste down into your neck through the glymphatic. And if you’re not moving in some way, shape or form, it will just sit there in your neck. And there’s actually been some studies now showing they’re linking that to Alzheimer’s and cognitive decline.

And so it’s just super important to move your body. And back in my PhD days, whenever I was super busy, I would just hit three sun salutations, like one minute, and I would be done with that. And then mindfulness. And a lot of people ask me, what’s the difference between mindfulness and mindset? For me, mindfulness is raking the soil and mindset is planting the seeds.

So mindfulness can look like meditating, it can look like breath work, whatever that is. And then mindset for me is setting an intention or an affirmation or whatever it is. If you do those three things in the morning, you really will set yourself up for success on a level that you might not have ever seen before.

The Vagus Nerve and Intuition

JAY SHETTY: Nice question number four before. What’s something that you’ve learned in neuroscience that still shocks you or something recently that you learned that really stands out to you about us?

EMILY MCDONALD: The one thing that still shocks me that is super powerful and really important to know, that I never hear anybody talk about, is how the vagus nerve ties in with our ability to manifest and our intuition.

JAY SHETTY: Talk to me about that.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, so there’s actually research to show that the level of how much our vagus nerve is toned actually is connected to our intuition. And of course, the vagus nerve is the tenth cranial nerve. And it’s what is really responsible for that mind body connection.

And what they found is that when I say the vagus nerve, how toned it is, you can think of it like a muscle. So when your muscles are really toned, when your muscles are really toned, they’re stronger. When your vagus nerve is really toned, it’s stronger, it’s better.

And so when you have more vagus tone, they’ve actually found that your sense of intuition is stronger, it’s more accurate. But also your nervous system is more regulated, so you’re in more of that kind of rest and digest feeling of safety. You’re better able to rewire your brain, you’re better able to learn new things. And it’s super powerful.

And something that I always tell people and I’ve talked about before is just how easy it is to tone it, right in the moment. If you’re feeling anxious, you can just start humming and humming or, you know, om or whatever it is. It’s really cool how ancient kind of spiritual practices are already doing it. But humming actually tones the vagus nerve.

And that’s one. There are many ways to tone the vagus nerve, but that’s one thing that you can do in real time, that you’ll immediately start to feel calmer and more relaxed in the moment. And so they’ve shown that when your vagus nerve is not as toned, you actually have lower heart rate variability. And heart rate variability is also linked to intuition.

And of course, nervous system dysregulated. And so we’re kind of more stuck in that fight or flight. Our intuition is less accurate. And so I think the vagus nerve is a kind of cool avenue to think about and talk about that I don’t really hear a lot of people talking about when it comes to neuroscience.

JAY SHETTY: And neuroscience. That’s huge. I’ve never heard that before. Yeah, that’s awesome. And what are the other ways of toning it? So you’ve got humming.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, humming, grounding, exercise. Does it actually a really cool gratitude practice tones the vagus nerve. But, yeah, and so there are a lot of ways to tone it, but exercise, grounding, humming. There’s actually, I had this device, which, I mean, they’re available everywhere, but they vibrate and through bone conduction actually can tone the vagus nerve as well. So there’s a bunch of different ways to do it.

The Power of the Mind

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I love that. That was great. I’m glad I asked you. Yeah, I’ve never heard that. Fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who’s ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

EMILY MCDONALD: I would say I would want people to learn about the power of their minds. Yeah. Growing up, I had so many labels and all these different diagnosis put onto me, and I thought I was just stuck that way. And I thought that’s just who I was and what I had to deal with for the rest of my life.

And I had no idea that, oh, hey, through the power of neuroplasticity and epigenetics and all these different practices, I can not only rewire my brain, but change the way that I think and feel and behave and also change my physical health through all of that. So, yeah, I would say that my law would be that people need to learn about how powerful their mind is.

JAY SHETTY: Is that what made you want to study neuroscience?

Finding Neuroscience by Accident

EMILY MCDONALD: No, I actually found neuroscience on accident. So I was, again, just kind of following the rules that everybody had set out for me. I was smart and good at science, and so I just was like, okay, I should become a doctor then. And my major was actually biology. I hated it. I did not like learning about the Krebs cycle or photosynthesis or any of it.

And so I actually went up to one of my friends and I asked him, I said, I hate biology. What should I switch my major to? And he was like, you should switch it to neuroscience. I had never even heard of neuroscience at the time, but it sounded cool. And so I switched my major. First exam I ever took, I got a 100.

And my professor reached out to me and he was like, congratulations, you can. And I responded back to his email, and I was like, this is so cool. I need to be in the research lab. So I started doing research in neuroscience immediately, very early on. And that’s where I started to really fall in love with neuroscience and just learning about how cool the brain is, because the brain is super cool, but also all the different things that we can do with it.

And then I was taking a class in undergrad about the neurobiology of drug addiction and why current treatments don’t work. And it was like, they don’t work because we don’t actually know the problem and we’re just throwing band aids on the symptoms. And that was something I really resonated with kind of growing up. That happened to me a lot.

And so I was like, that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to go and I’m going to cure drug addiction. And so I actually ended up doing the exact research that I wanted to do. I was investigating new targets to treat relapse to drug addiction, like neuropharmacology and all of that. And so that’s what I want to do.

And I like that you mentioned being open to other pathways and stuff, because, yeah, whenever I decided, obviously not to be a scientist in the lab all the time anymore, I kind of didn’t really know what was going to happen with that dream. But actually, someone in Minecraft let me know that she’s two months sober since joining.

And for me, that made me, that was a full circle moment for me when I realized, oh, hey, actually I still did the thing that I set out to do, just in a different way than I thought I was going to be able to do it. So that’s how I got into neuroscience. It wasn’t on purpose, it was by accident.

Breaking Free from Labels

JAY SHETTY: And what were some of the labels that you had when you were younger that you felt you wish you had this insight earlier on in life? What were those labels?

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, so growing up, I actually dealt with a lot of physical and mental health issues. When I was eight years old, I was hospitalized with E. Coli. And then from then on, I really struggled with my health. I was in and out of doctor’s offices all the time.

At one point in high school, I was going to the emergency room. I remember having to leave a haircut halfway through because I had to go to the emergency room. So I had PCOS, hormonal imbalance, all the different kind of physical things, then mentally, depression, ADHD. One doctor labeled me as bipolar. Lot of different things.

And knowing now what I know, I was a teenage girl going through a lot of hormonal changes and not being supported. And of course, I think especially with many other things, and I think especially with the ADHD component, but also now I was talking to my grandma on the phone recently, and she had asked me, oh, how’s your health?

And I honestly hadn’t thought about it in a long time. And that’s when I realized, whoa. Not only have I healed my mind, but I’ve really healed from the inside out. And I think for me, I thought that I was going to have to be on all these medications the rest of my life. I thought I was going to just, I really struggled with.

And I think something with ADHD that a lot of people don’t talk about is it’s not just inability to focus and being distracted. It’s like, okay, if you’re bad at controlling your impulses. I personally also was bad at controlling my impulsive emotions. And so I was super emotional. There’s a whole bunch of things.

And so I think, for me, I wish that someone was like, hey, you can actually start to train your brain to be better at focusing and being less impulsive. For me, meditation gave me superpowers. And I mean that in every aspect of it. Of course, with the brain and focusing and training my ability to focus and all of that, but also to be able to tap into my intuition and to be able to tap into all that is and just get downloads and answers and all of that.

So I think, yeah, I wish that when it comes to all, to answer your question of what labels, there are so many. And I just wish that somebody would have come and told me, hey, you can, you can change. You do have the power to change. Because I thought I was stuck like that, and I thought that if there was something wrong with me.

JAY SHETTY: Wow, that’s so powerful. I love hearing that because I think right now that’s exactly what every young person’s being told, and we hear those diagnosis and they’re useful, but then we end up creating a story around them as well of what we can achieve, who we can be, how much we can focus, what’s possible for us.

And you’re living proof that you can go on to not only heal from the inside out, but to actually go and have goals and targets and win and achieve.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: And build a healthy life, which I think is so inspiring for so many to see. So that’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, of course.

JAY SHETTY: I love that. Well, everyone’s been listening and watching. Make sure you go and tag me and Emily with all the incredible insights that she shared. Any advice that stood out to you, anything you’re going to try out, anything you’re going to journal about. Go and follow M on the Brain on Instagram if you don’t already, and across social media. And you can follow Minecraft as well, which is Emily’s community platform. Check that out as well.

Emily, anything else? Anywhere else you’d like people to discover you, follow you, find you?

EMILY MCDONALD: Oh, no, those are the main accounts. So thank you for sharing that.

JAY SHETTY: Of course. Of course. And I’m sure we get to welcome Emily back when her book’s ready. She’s already an author, though, and she’s a published author. We’ll have her back on.

EMILY MCDONALD: That’d be awesome.

JAY SHETTY: But, yeah. Such a pleasure talking to you, Emily. I learned so much and thank you for being such an incredible instrument and vessel for neuroscience and spirituality and mindset. It’s incredible what you’re doing, and I’m such a fan. So congratulations.

EMILY MCDONALD: Yeah, it’s been great. Thank you for having me. This has been awesome.

Recommended Episode

JAY SHETTY: If you love this episode, you’ll enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Amen on how to change your life by changing your brain. If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with a healthy brain.

You know, I’ve had the blessing or the curse to scan over a thousand convicted felons and over a hundred murderers, and their brains are very damaged.

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