Toxicologist Dr Yvonne Burkart’s Interview on The Diary Of A CEO (Transcript)

And we’re basically guinea pigs in a massive human experiment that no one signed up for, that we didn’t consent to.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what’s the risk?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, the risk is that we go about our daily lives not knowing what we’re consuming or being exposed to, and then later on in life, unfortunately, fall ill and suffer from some chronic disease.

The Alarming Health Consequences

STEVEN BARTLETT: Are there particular illnesses that are most closely associated with toxins in our environment and toxins that we’re consuming every day?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. So cancer is probably one of the most clear associations, as well as infertility. And more widely known are issues like not being able to conceive, having a decrease in sperm count, sperm quality, and the fact that sperm count has declined by 50% in the last 50 years is pretty alarming.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And who are you?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I’m a toxicologist, but I’m also a mom.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What’s a toxicologist?

DR YVONNE BURKART: So I study the basic science of poisons. How do chemicals interact with the cells in our bodies, and how do they cause harm? But not only that, how do our cells defend themselves against these toxins.

A Personal Journey of Discovery

STEVEN BARTLETT: Why did you choose to do toxicology? You know, you could have done anything with your life. You could have pursued anything.

DR YVONNE BURKART: I found it by accident. Was it really an accident, though? I don’t know. I think I was led there. I think I’ve always been interested. I think I was meant to share this, and I think it brings up a lot of emotions for me because I’ve been personally impacted.

But I think of how many millions of people around the world are struggling and don’t know why. And so if I can bring awareness to that, then I feel like my mission is complete. But I studied toxicology because just in my body, I knew that something was amiss. We need to study this environment around us. We need to be more aware and more conscious of what we’re doing.

And when I was an undergrad and I discovered toxicology, I was living the absolute conventional lifestyle and sick all the time and wondering why and just thinking that it was normal. And I shrugged it off and it wasn’t normal, and I reversed it.

STEVEN BARTLETT: It’s so personal for you, isn’t it?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It is, absolutely.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Why?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Not only because I’ve been personally impacted, but I want my children to have the best version of me so I can look after them and so that I don’t have to worry about them having some of the problems that I had.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Are you scared about that?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I’m concerned and I take action on it every single day. I think about it all the time, but not in a scared way. Just what else can I do? What else can I research? What else can I learn? How else can I implement this? And how else can I share this so that other people can implement it? Because there’s so much going on in the scientific community about these toxic chemicals that the general public doesn’t know, and we all have a right to know.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Have we got any tissues, Jo?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Thank you. Didn’t expect to cry.

From Fertility Struggles to Recovery

STEVEN BARTLETT: Yeah, I mean, I understand, but it’s illuminating because it really shows why you’re doing what you’re doing and how much it means to you, which I think is really important. And it makes a lot of things make sense, frankly. But it also, you know, I haven’t had kids yet, so I don’t have that lens that I guess comes with being a parent and that concern of. I think about myself. And I’m fairly young, so. But I can imagine in a world where I had kids, I’d become ultra cautious and ultra thoughtful.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. Especially coming from where I came from where I had those problems. And just to think, if I can prevent that in my children and help people prevent that in their children, then that’s the best outcome for everyone.

I actually did never pay attention to toxins before I studied toxicology. I was in the lab, I was looking at really toxic chemicals, chemicals that we know cause harm and cause cancer. But as I went on with my life, I started to face more and more increasing health issues, increasing in severity, until I was faced with fertility challenges.

And I was unable and unwilling to accept at the time that IVF or in vitro fertilization would be my only option if I wanted to have a family. And I was unwilling to accept that because I said, wait a second, I know that there’s an environmental component to this. There’s chemicals in our environment that are impacting my fertility. That’s what I studied in the lab. I studied fertility and cancer.

So it was quite shocking to me that I actually started to struggle with some of these conditions, but no one could give me answers. And what was missing from my view at the time was these low dose chronic exposures over a lifetime to toxins and chemicals in our products, in our homes, in our outside world that nobody really has connected to some of these disease states.

And so it wasn’t until I embarked on a journey of self discovery and research that I started to uncover the linkages between these low dose environmental chemicals and products that we’re using all the time and how they impacted my health. And when I started to remove them and replace them with safer options, my health returned, my health recovered and I was actually able to conceive my own children without assistance.

STEVEN BARTLETT: How old were you when you were first told that IVF was the only route?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I was 32.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. And you had tests done and stuff and at that time to see if you were your sort of fertility levels and things like that.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. I was actually not having a cycle at that point. For nine months.

STEVEN BARTLETT: You didn’t have a period at all?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I didn’t have a period. So that is quite striking because as a person in their 30s, people don’t go through menopause and have, you know, a lack of a period until sometimes 50 years old. That’s almost 20 years earlier than that. That was really shocking to me. Something was clearly wrong. My body was screaming for help and I had no other option but to take matters into my own hands.

When the System Has No Answers

STEVEN BARTLETT: As a toxicologist, someone who’s trained and done the research. When you were told that, you know, IVF is the only route, what did they say was the problem? Because if someone’s telling you that IVF is the only route, presumably they’re saying that you’re maybe implying between the lines that you’re broken in some way or that it’s normal not to have a period at 32. Like what were they, what was the, what does the system tell you is the problem with you?

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s the issue is that they didn’t, they had no answers, they couldn’t tell me what the issues were. They said, oh, you look normal in tests, but if you’re unable to get pregnant on your own, well, the other option is IVF or adopt.

Relearning Everything: The Dose Doesn’t Always Make the Poison

STEVEN BARTLETT: And as a toxicologist, was there anything that you needed to relearn or re understand based on your training that you’ve discovered wasn’t true?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I had to relearn almost everything because as a scientist, I was trained as a toxicologist day one, to follow the path. That and the belief that the dose makes the poison, that the more you’re exposed to a chemical, the more severe the outcome.

And that’s not always true because as we know now, there are chemicals in the environment known as endocrine disruptors at very low levels have higher activity than they do at high levels. So it’s completely backwards. So I had to relearn everything that I had learned as a student in order to recover. And in fact I was so resistant and so hesitant to go outside of what I knew. That actually helped, kept me stuck for much longer than I needed to be.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Did you say with endocrine disruptors that sometimes lower doses are worse than high doses?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Exactly.

STEVEN BARTLETT: How can that be possible?

DR YVONNE BURKART: They’re called non monotonic dose responses. That’s the technical term for it. But it’s basically because the hormones in our bodies are present and active at such extraordinarily tiny amounts that any amount of excess or chemicals coming from the environment could trigger those same pathways, could be devastating on a cellular level.

The Plastic Problem: Almost Everything Contains Toxins

STEVEN BARTLETT: And when you think about the products that we use day to day, whether they’re beauty products or, you know, might be a frying pan or a spatula, plastic spatula or anything, how many of these sort of day to day consumer products have toxic chemicals in them? Or at least one toxic chemical.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Almost everything. And it might shock you to think that it is almost everything, but unfortunately it is. It’s because our world now is overcome with plastics, single use plastics, plastic containers, food containers. Almost everything that we know of has some plastic element to it.

And that’s really at the root of a lot of the problems that we have because the chemicals that are used to create the plastics are leaching, the plastics themselves are breaking up, leading to microplastic and nanoplastic release that we are just being constantly bombarded with on a daily basis.

Beauty Products and the Path to Safer Choices

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what about beauty products? Because I had this conversation with my partner recently, so we’re in the process now. I’m 32 years old, so it’s that kind of season of life where you start thinking about having a family and kids and such. And so we’ve both become pretty conscious of the products that we’re applying every day, from shampoos to deodorants.

DR YVONNE BURKART: For the most part, if you grab a product off of a store shelf, nine times out of 10, there are chemicals of concern in them. And we’re talking about major retailers, big box stores. If you go to smaller, let’s say health food stores and chains like that, then the percentage is much lower. So you have a better chance of getting a safer product at a health food store.

Academic Background and Research

STEVEN BARTLETT: Just before we get into it, can you give me an overview of your personal education and the career journey you’ve traveled that have resulted in the wisdom that you have now?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. So I am a PhD toxicologist. I started studying reproductive toxicity in the laboratory as an undergrad. And we were looking at the effect of environmental chemicals that are pretty much everywhere in the environment. They’re the products of combustion, so the combustion of gasoline in cars, in cigarettes, in cooking.

So some of these chemicals, and we looked at the impact of them on the reproductive system in males and females, and what we saw was pretty striking, such that when the animals are challenged with these chemicals and they’re pregnant, then the offspring, not only the daughters and the sons, but also the grandchildren, are impacted by the grandmother being exposed.

STEVEN BARTLETT: How does that work?

DR YVONNE BURKART: So when a woman is pregnant with a female daughter, her developing ovaries, which will then someday become contain the eggs that will then become the grandchildren are also in the same environment as the mother. So what the mother is being exposed to, the baby is also being exposed to. And also her grandchildren are being exposed.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So if a mother is exposed to toxins, her baby’s babies are being exposed to those toxins.

Generational Impact of Toxins

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s exactly right.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So there’s sort of a generational toxification of people.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, that’s called multi generational toxicity. And it even goes a step further transgenerational. That’s when great grandchildren can be impacted.

Because what’s happening in utero is epigenetic changes. So changes to our DNA that are then being passed down through our progeny. So great grandchildren, even if they live a perfectly clean lifestyle and haven’t been exposed to toxins, could have already been genetically predisposed to developing some of these conditions.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Are there particular toxins that you think are especially susceptible to this sort of transgenerational passing down through mutations in our DNA?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, it’s the endocrine disruptors. Things like phthalates, bisphenol, PFAS chemicals. A lot of the endocrine disruptors that some people are familiar with, other people are not, but that are found in our everyday products like nonstick cookware, the makeup and cosmetics that we’re using, the plastic containers that we’re buying food in.

Understanding Endocrine Disruptors

STEVEN BARTLETT: What is an endocrine disruptor? Explain that to me like I’m nine years old.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Okay. So in the human body, we have eight endocrine glands. So they’re little centers in our bodies, and they secrete hormones. And these hormones regulate pretty much everything that you can think of.

So from sleep, wake, digestion, to how well your brain works, cognition to metabolism, so how quickly you can burn calories, how much fat you deposit, how much fat you can lose, and also your fertility if you’re able to have children someday.

So endocrine disruptors are coming in, and they’re basically disrupting, just as the name indicates, they’re throwing the balance off. They’re messing up with the signaling. They’re causing everything to go haywire in our bodies.

So we really need to be careful, especially for children whose bodies are rapidly developing. And then you’re throwing in these endocrine disrupting chemicals. It’s like adding gasoline to a dumpster fire, basically.

Children’s Vulnerability to Toxins

STEVEN BARTLETT: And as it relates to children, are they especially susceptible to endocrine disruptors because they’re in a developmental stage?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Absolutely. So with children, it’s extremely unfortunate that they are the most susceptible and most vulnerable to a lot of toxins, because they’re growing, they’re not able to detoxify. In fact, a child’s detoxification capacity doesn’t fully develop until the age of 10 years.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So detoxification capacity, what’s that?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. So the ability of your body to detoxify chemicals. We all have it. Everyone has it. The liver and the kidney are the detox organs, the main ones. But we have this capability of being able to break these chemicals down and remove them so that they don’t cause harm in our bodies.

But with children, that ability isn’t fully developed until the age of 10 years old. So if you think about all these little children, they’re being exposed even before they’re born, after they’re born, and then they can’t even get rid of these chemicals from their body until they’re 10 years old.

Health Impacts on Children

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what are some of the illnesses or diseases that we see in children that have been heavily exposed to these endocrine disruptors in our everyday environment?

DR YVONNE BURKART: The worst is cancer, so we see an increased risk of childhood leukemia with certain exposures. There’s also neurodevelopmental delays, so cognitive deficits in children that are exposed to these chemicals.

We also see increased rates of obesity. Obesity in children is skyrocketing now, unprecedented levels that we have not seen before. And it’s likely due to these chemicals and this genetic predisposition and programming that kids are just being dealt the worst hand possible.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about things like neurodivergence? Is there links between things like ADHD and these endocrine disruptors and ADHD, autism, et cetera?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, there is a link, actually. So some of these chemicals have been known to worsen these behavioral conditions like ADHD and autism, like you mentioned.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And have they done studies on this?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. So there’s associations where they’ll measure the amount of these chemicals in children through their urine or through their blood, and they’ll confirm the severity of these conditions and be able to correlate it with the amount of the chemicals in their bodies.

Impact on Puberty and Development

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what about the impact this has on things like puberty? Because I was reading some stats before that, I think. Is it women having. Girls are getting going through puberty earlier and earlier, or is it later and later? I can’t remember. It’s one of the two.

DR YVONNE BURKART: It’s earlier, earlier and earlier. So children who are being exposed to these chemicals are experiencing earlier puberty, earlier breast development, earlier menstrual cycles.

And what that does is actually shift the entire window. Because if you think about it, we’re born with a certain set number of eggs in our ovaries. Once those eggs are gone, that’s when you start having menopause. So what’s happening when you start your period earlier, you actually go through menopause earlier. And that can come with a whole host of risk factors, bone fractures and so on and so forth.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And this is because of those endocrine disruptors?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Likely, yes.

STEVEN BARTLETT: How would they know?

DR YVONNE BURKART: They’ve done studies on this as well. So you can see that they’ve done observational studies where they’ll ask families, when did your child start using beauty and personal care products which are loaded with these chemicals. The children who use more products have more phthalates, more endocrine disruptors in their blood and in their urine, and then they have earlier puberty, unfortunately.

Fertility Crisis in Adults

STEVEN BARTLETT: And as it relates to fertility generally in adults, are you aware of the shifts we’ve seen in infertility? What are the numbers? How do you quantify the changes?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, over the last hundred years or so, there has been a drastic decline in the number of live births. So that’s one of the numbers that I have looked at recently. So it isn’t necessarily that more people are experiencing infertility. It could be a measure of people are having children later. Could be people are just having less children. But it is an overall measure of population.

So it looks like there’s just less children being born. And that could be for a whole number of reasons. Are people not able to have kids? Are they choosing not to have kids? I would almost argue that it’s the fact that people are not able to have kids.

When you correlate that with the fact that sperm counts have declined by 50% worldwide, that is absolutely astonishing. We’re not at the point yet where humans will go extinct, but if we continue on this path and don’t make changes, which there are many ways that we can make changes, then we might be looking at population decline.

Regulatory Failures

STEVEN BARTLETT: Isn’t the job of the FDA or some kind of government body to regulate the chemicals that are in our everyday items?

DR YVONNE BURKART: You would think, right? In Europe, the European Commission has a much better system of regulating chemicals. So they require upfront chemical testing, depending on the amount that is produced. So chemical manufacturers need to provide data. So they have to fund these studies, these laboratory studies.

They have to fund them and provide this package of information to the European Chemicals Agency, or ECHA. And once they do that, then based on the amount that they’re producing, you have to give more information, you have to have more testing, such that if you’re producing several metric tons of a chemical, you’ve got to do a whole bunch of studies to really prove that it is safe, not only for people, but also animals and the environment.

That it’s not going to be something that is persistent, that builds up, that can’t be broken down, that starts to accumulate, because that’s what we’re seeing now with some of these chemicals. And that’s really the problem is that they don’t break down, they don’t go away, they don’t disappear.

So then what happens? It basically disrupts the entire ecosystem of the planet. And we’re not disconnected from that. We’re connected to the ecosystem. We rely on that. So if we’re looking at it from the standpoint that testing of chemicals up front, that is absolutely something that we should be doing. But no one is really mandating that except in Europe.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Why don’t they mandate it in other parts of the world like the United States?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Our system wasn’t set up like that over here. I think we’ve got a different relationship between the government and with industry. I think there is a lack of regulations, a lack of requirements for toxicity testing combined with the lack of corporate responsibility.

So a lot of these manufacturers don’t want to have to foot the bill and pay millions of dollars to have testing only to show that this chemical that they so excited in love with can’t be used because it’s toxic.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Do you think it is malicious and intentional in terms of, do you think there’s a concerted effort to make sure that the government doesn’t increase regulation on these industries so that they can continue to produce low cost items that have long shelf lives and are cheaper?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I would hope not, but it’s looking like that. And it’s just this whole system is not set up to protect consumers and the environment, at least in the US.

Dr. Burkart’s Personal Journey to Recovery

STEVEN BARTLETT: So you don’t have your period yourself. You’re told that your best option is to go do IVF. You then go on a bit of a journey yourself to unlearn lots of things you learn in toxicology training. What was the ending to that story in terms of what did you do then? Did you go find a different doctor? What did you change and what is the ending of that story?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, I fell down a rabbit hole of research and I had to pick myself up and say, “Hey, you know what? I’m going to take matters into my own hands. I’m going outside of the route that I thought I was supposed to go down, the mainstream route.”

So I went sideways a little bit and I went with integrative and functional medicine. And so I went looking for the root cause, the root cause, which is not necessarily what I was being guided toward with the conventional route.

So with integrative and functional medicine there was personalized testing and of course this was all upfront cost for me, but this was something that was absolutely vital. So I found a way to pay for these tests and they told me exactly what I’m deficient in, what I need to do and they guided me.

So I first started with removing inflammatory foods and really dialing in on my diet. And I saw relief from my symptoms within two weeks, very rapid. Once I started removing these triggers that were causing digestive problems, then I started to see improvement very fast.

But it was then going on six months and I kind of felt like I hit a plateau. So there’s something else that’s still triggering me. There’s something else that’s still bothering me. And I don’t feel 100%. Even though I’ve done all the work, I’ve cleaned up my diet, I cook all my meals at home. I have sourced the best quality meats and vegetables. I even started growing my own food. And there was still something there. Something was not right.

And so then I started targeting things in my home. My makeup cabinet in particular was a huge source of trigger for me in terms of chemicals and toxicity. Once I started to clean out my makeup drawer, I really saw a shift because what I was doing on a day to day basis, I was using several cosmetic products. I was absolutely obsessed with perfumes and fragrances.

Once I removed those, one by one, slowly disentangling myself from just being obsessed with them, I started to see real change. And I noticed more energy return, I was feeling more fit, I had more mental clarity, more focus. I didn’t have as many headaches and migraines anymore. And I just started to feel like a more vital person, like more vitality.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And did your period return?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It did, it did return and it returned. And I was pregnant within nine months of that first, the first time when I started this whole journey, within nine months I was pregnant. I had my period back within, I’d probably say three months. And then six months after that.

Once I got rid of all the beauty and personal care products, I also looked into my oral care, my oral health. I had mercury amalgam fillings. And mercury is extremely toxic to reproduction, but also to the brain. Once I got rid of the mercury out of my teeth, that was when things just really took a nice, a huge leap in my health journey.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And how were you able to measure the improvements? I know you can say, you know, I felt better, but could you measure the improvements biochemically in a lab somehow?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, actually, that was part of this entire journey. So there was regular routine testing going on. Whenever we made changes, I was working with these practitioners and I made changes and we would do tests and say, “Look, your numbers came back. It looks great. You removed the mercury amalgam fillings from your teeth. Your mercury levels have dropped.”

STEVEN BARTLETT: Really?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, it was pretty shocking. And I felt almost instantly better when they took those out of my mouth. It was that striking of an effect.

The Urgency of Sharing Toxic Knowledge

STEVEN BARTLETT: Knowing what you know, surely it’s built up a bit of, I don’t know, a bit of a… If I knew all that you knew, I think about toxins in our environment, I would be A, a really annoying person at like every dinner party. And B, there’d be a certain sense of, I guess, emergency and urgency to me because I’d be looking around at all my friends and I’d be… If I understood the consequences of them drinking from that plastic container or putting that product on their face. I feel like I’m trying to shout at the world to tell them to stop. Do you feel a sense of that? You directly witnessed the impact that making these changes and detoxifying your environment had on you. Do you feel a sense of urgency?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Absolutely. I mean, I can’t even tell you how much passion it has ignited in me to be able to share this information and spread it as far and wide as possible, because it’s literally affecting every single person on this planet.

I do find it sometimes challenging not to call someone out and say, “Hey, be careful with that.” But I think it comes from being a living example. And I found that that is much more effective – being a living example instead of telling people don’t do this, don’t do that, showing them what’s possible. Look at what happened to me, look at my journey, look at the benefit that I feel.

And then once you start removing these things and making these simple swaps, it’s about simple, small incremental shifts that anyone can do over the long term. Because it’s really about… it’s a marathon, not a race. It’s not about you’ve got to throw everything away and you’ve got to hide under a rock, because I tried that and it didn’t work and it caused more stress and stress is harmful. So being a living example, empowering people with information, educating about the problem, but coming with a solution.

The Rising Cancer Crisis

STEVEN BARTLETT: You mentioned cancer is one of the downstream consequences of living in a toxic environment. And we talked about how sperm quality has reduced over the last couple of decades. When we look at the stats around cancer, are there any stats in particular that you think are most clearly associated with us living in such a toxic environment?

One of them that always brings to mind is breast cancer. Because I think I read or heard that breast cancer is on the rise or has been rising for the last couple of decades. And when you look at the western world versus something like, you know, a tribe in Africa, they don’t see the same levels of breast cancer.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, that is definitely a concern because cancer historically was a disease of age, aging. It wasn’t so common that you see cancer in your 30s, 40s, and even 50s. Now we’re seeing a shift. The window is moving earlier and earlier cancer incidents.

Like you said, breast cancer incidence is definitely on the rise. I myself never knew anyone that suffered from breast cancer or survived it until I hit my 30s. Then I knew five people that had it, including two people that I worked with in the toxicology lab.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what are your suspicions about the root causes of this rising cancer?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I definitely think there is a huge environmental component to it because a lot of what was believed decades ago was that disease and cancer incidents had to do with your genes. You were just genetically predisposed, you were unlucky.

But in actuality, what we’re seeing now is that the environment plays such a massive role in whether or not you actually have cancer. So just because you have the predisposition to developing breast cancer, such as the BRCA gene, doesn’t mean you’ll get it. It really depends on your lifestyle and how you lived, but also how your ancestors lived.

We talked about the multi-generational effect of these chemicals. Depending on how your ancestors lived, how your grandmother and how your mother lived could predispose you to this.

Groundbreaking Study: Beauty Products and Cancer Risk

STEVEN BARTLETT: And have there been any studies that show the impact of these sort of everyday chemicals on cancer risk?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, and that’s something that is… I don’t want to say that it’s exciting, but I’m glad that we finally have proof. I don’t want to see these studies. I hate seeing this, actually. I’m really angry that people have to suffer with cancer because it’s so preventable.

There was a study recently that looked at removing certain ingredients from beauty and personal care products. So women without any history of breast cancer were asked to remove these ingredients from their products for 28 days. So that’s very short – four weeks. They took cells from the breast tissue. They were all normal. They measured the amount of breast cancer gene expression.

After 28 days, they took another sample. So after 28 days of removing these ingredients, they took another sample and they saw that the breast cancer gene expression dropped. And the only thing that they were asked to change about their lifestyle was to remove these ingredients from their beauty and personal care products.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And which products were they told to remove and what ingredients were those?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It was skin care, deodorant, shampoo – things that most people are using. And the ingredients were phthalates, which can often be found in fragrance.

So the seemingly innocuous little term on the ingredients list, “fragrance” or “parfum,” can contain a huge number of chemicals. It’s hidden behind this umbrella term because by law, in Europe and in the US, manufacturers do not have to disclose this. It is considered trade secret.

And within that chemical mixture are known carcinogens, endocrine disruptors like phthalates, and the most potent allergens known to man. And with phthalates, the reason that they’re in fragrances and that manufacturers love them so much is they’re what are known as film formers. So it helps the fragrance to stick to surfaces like your skin, your clothing, and it helps to make it last longer and linger.

So if you’ve ever sprayed something on yourself and are still able to smell it hours later, that’s a telltale sign that you’ve been exposed to phthalates, that you have phthalates in that fragrance in that product.

The Hidden Dangers in Deodorants

STEVEN BARTLETT: And how many deodorants on the shelf have phthalates in them?

DR YVONNE BURKART: If it’s got fragrance in it? Almost all of them. It’s code for endocrine disrupting phthalates, essentially. You can assume that, and in fact, it’s safe to assume that they contain phthalates.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So, I mean, this is one of the deodorants that I often use. It’s just a… I mean, for anyone that’s just listening, it’s just like one of the deodorants you’d find on a shelf in any store that comes in a little… Is this an aluminum can? Yeah, it is an aluminum can. Does this have phthalates in it? How do I know?

DR YVONNE BURKART: So you turn the container around and check the ingredients list. Do you see a word? Fragrance, Parfum.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Yeah, fragrance brackets, parfume.

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s what you’re looking for.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, So I shouldn’t be spraying this all over my body, right? Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: So sometimes you’ll see on there it’ll say “phthalate free.” That’s helpful. But that still doesn’t take away the fact that there are known carcinogens and allergens in there. So if you’ve got any kind of respiratory problems, any kind of skin problems, and you just don’t want to expose yourself to unnecessary carcinogens, then it would be beneficial to avoid fragrance.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about a little spray? Just a…

DR YVONNE BURKART: I mean, it depends. Is that really going to benefit you? Are you going to get any effect from that little…

STEVEN BARTLETT: I don’t want to smell. So this is why I spray this because, you know, this top is quite tight. So if it’s tight and it’s hot in here, I’ll end up smelling. So I just spray it and then I’m really doing… It’s public service for other people. Really. I’m fine to smell myself. I can’t even smell it. But it’s for, you know, Jack and the team.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, the question would be, can you find a safer alternative? And the answer is yes.

STEVEN BARTLETT: How do I find a safer alternative? What am I looking for?

DR YVONNE BURKART: So you don’t want fragrances and you definitely… Yes. So avoid the word fragrance unless it says that the fragrance comes from essential oils.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. But if it comes from essential oils, will it still make me smell nice?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. Because that’s where aromatic compounds come from. They come from plants. But just to give you more context on this aerosol spray, this is one of the worst products that you can use.

The Dangers of Aerosol Deodorants

STEVEN BARTLETT: I’ve been using it every day.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. So I’ll tell you why aerosols use propellants. Propellants are derived from petroleum. And there was a recall on thousands of products within the last couple years that the propellants were a source of benzene contamination. And benzene is a known human carcinogen that you do not want to be inhaling because what you inhale goes to your brain, it goes quickly all over your body, through the bloodstream. You don’t want to be delivering a known human carcinogen into your bloodstream. You’re just not helping you at all. Because benzene is known to cause leukemia in people.

So it’s a no brainer if you want to avoid that, to avoid aerosols. But not only that, if you think about how you’re actually applying the product, you’re spraying it like this, right in a stream and it heads towards your face. Then that’s also an inhalation risk because there’s particles in there, there’s solids in there. You don’t want to be inhaling unnecessary things.

So the best option for deodorant is to look for something that has essential oils and is a roll on or a stick solid.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Is there anything on the label that I can trust when it comes to deodorants? Is there like a certain term that I’m looking for? You said phthalate free. Is there anything else that…

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. So “phthalate free” and “paraben free” are definitely helpful.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Because then we know at least two of the known endocrine disruptors that we have evidence on are not found in that product. But that doesn’t exonerate everything else. We still need to be diligent about the ingredients because they are sources of contamination of byproducts of carcinogens and hidden toxins, essentially.

STEVEN BARTLETT: It is pretty crazy that I could get a lighter and go… And it would be flammable and then I spray that on my body like I’m lathering myself in petrol or something. It is pretty crazy.

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s essentially what that is – petrol. Yeah, because it’s coming from petroleum. All of the propellants and some of the other base ingredients. I’m sure I haven’t looked at it, but I’m almost certain because that is the source of the majority of ingredients that go into these products.

STEVEN BARTLETT: This is my last day ever using aerosol deodorants. Let’s pull up a bin. Okay, goodbye. Okay, that’s gone. Okay. Is this a better alternative? What I’ve got here is I’ve got this roll on deodorant which I think is one of the refillable ones. Is this a better alternative, at least?

DR YVONNE BURKART: From this level of what I know of the fact that it’s a solid? Yes. But I have to see the ingredients list. We have to look at the ingredients list to really know what’s actually in the deodorant.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: So at least from a sustainability standpoint, that’s definitely great to see that it’s not in a plastic container that is refillable. But we really need to check the ingredients.

Reading Deodorant Labels

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, so I’ve got the ingredients list here. I’ve just pulled it up on my iPad. It says tapioca starch, baking soda, sunflower seed wax, cocoa seed butter, tocophenol extate. No idea what that is. Sterile alcohol perfume.

DR YVONNE BURKART: So do you recognize the ingredients? Are they easily recognizable or do they sound highly synthetic, very chemical like? It says parfum. Is there any indication on what’s in the parfum?

STEVEN BARTLETT: “All anti agents are scented with a blend of fragrances to give you the scents you love.”

DR YVONNE BURKART: Hmm. Is there any indication that it’s phthalate free and paraben free?

STEVEN BARTLETT: Hmm. No.

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s what should give us pause is when we don’t know what’s in that fragrance term. That’s really the issue.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. I mean, there’s just so many bloody words. Phthalate free deodorant.

DR YVONNE BURKART: I’ve got a better way that I can help you search.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: If you just type in the word “organic” and then whatever product you’re looking for, “organic deodorant,” that is going to whittle down the choices significantly for you.

STEVEN BARTLETT: You’re saying that if it’s organic, that means that it won’t contain the phthalates and the parabens?

The Hidden Dangers of Fragrance in Products

DR YVONNE BURKART: Not necessarily. This is where it gets a little bit nuanced, but at least it whittles down the results that you’ll get in search. And then you can check the ingredients one by one and look for the one that has essential oils instead of the word fragrance.

Because it’s really the lack of transparency that should make us pause. We have no idea what’s in there. We don’t know what we’re exposing ourselves to. And if you’re someone who is concerned about the chemicals in the products you’re using, the toxins you’re being exposed to, if you are someone who is thinking about getting pregnant, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or just health conscious, and you don’t want these toxins in your products, then this is the work that needs to be done.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Interesting. So just because it’s a roll on doesn’t necessarily mean it’s safe, right? Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Like you just demonstrated. And just because it’s sustainable also doesn’t mean it’s safe. So there’s a lot of marketing that goes on with products. And manufacturers know that consumers are becoming savvy, they’re becoming aware and they’re demanding safer products. So they will hit all of the buttons and hope that somebody isn’t diligent and doesn’t see through that.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Is fragrance so important because fragrance is an indicator that it contains these phthalates and parabens? Is that why I should be thinking fragrance is one indicator for whether the cosmetic product is toxic or not?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, definitely. That would be probably the easiest and most obvious way that you can weed products out is just look for the word fragrance or perfume. And if there’s no indication that it comes from plants, that it’s from essential oils, then that’s not something that you want to use.

The Fragrance Industry’s Explosive Growth

STEVEN BARTLETT: I read a stat that said 91% of antiperspirants, 95% of shaving products, 83% of moisturizers, and 63% of sunscreens contain fragrance. And 96% of shampoos, 98% of conditioners, 97% of hair styling products contain fragrance as well. Why are they putting fragrance in everything? Would the products not sell if there weren’t fragrance in there?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, I think there’s many reasons that they put fragrances in. So first of all, we are sensory beings and people respond to fragrances. Fragrances changes your mood, it uplifts your mood, it helps you feel more confident. Fragrances affect us on a very primal level. And the earlier and earlier that you can get hooked on fragrances, the better for these manufacturers, right?

So that’s why they’re putting fragrances in, even children’s products and scented everything. If you notice, I’ve got kids, we go out and look for slime. I said, “Let’s look for unscented slime.” It’s nearly impossible to find it. You’d have to make your own slime at home. So that’s what we’ve started doing. And the kids love it because they get to be like little chemists or whatever.

But you cannot find even markers, pens, crayons. They’ve got scented stickers. I mean, scented everything. Scent is everywhere now. The fragrance industry has absolutely exploded in the last 10 or 15 years. And fragrances are the most pervasive source, one of the most pervasive sources of toxins in our homes, in our daily lives. It’s almost like the new secondhand smoke. That’s how prevalent it is.

Because the chemicals, once you spray them, right, the reason you smell them is because they have volatilized means that they have become gases and they reach your nose, you smell them. What that also means is that they are in the air. Studies have shown that these fragrance chemicals, phthalates, carcinogens, allergens, they bind to the dust in your home.

So it’s not like, “I smell this fragrance. I sprayed it three hours ago and I’m totally fine.” Well, it’s still in the air. It’s always going to be in the air unless you physically remove the dust. So if you’re not regularly dusting, mopping, sweeping and vacuuming, you’re becoming re-exposed.

And this is absolutely the worst for a child, a baby who is crawling on the floor. Their faces and noses and airways are close to the ground, so they’re inhaling the dust that have settled on the floor. I don’t know many people that are sweeping and dusting every single day. But if you have a child, then really, I really want you to listen to this, because the child is putting stuff in their mouth.

So they’re ingesting these dust particles. They’re ingesting the chemicals that are attached to the dust particles. They’re inhaling them, and they can’t detox them. They can’t detoxify them from their bodies. And so then what happens? They grow up, they start having allergies, they start having cognitive delays, they start having behavioral issues, they start storing more fat, they can’t lose weight, they have low energy depression.

And a host of conditions that we think are common, but doesn’t mean they’re normal and they’re avoidable. That’s the part that is so important, is that these conditions are avoidable.

The Allergy Epidemic

STEVEN BARTLETT: I was just reading about allergies as you’re speaking, and I’ve got some stats here. Food allergies. The prevalence of food allergies in children have increased by 50% since the 1990s in the United States. In terms of seasonal allergies, in 2021, approximately 81 million Americans were diagnosed with allergic rhinitis, also known as hay fever or seasonal allergies.

By 2018, nearly 42 million Americans, or 13% of the population, had been diagnosed with asthma in their lifetime. And I mean, why is this happening? I mean, there’s like BBC articles here that show there’s been huge increases in allergic reactions as well. The EpiPen business is on the rise. Why are allergies getting worse, in your opinion?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, I think it’s this pervasiveness of the overuse of fragrances, scented products, and the lack of awareness about the harm that they cause. There’s studies showing that there are people who, as soon as you light a candle, then people start having migraines, they can’t think straight anymore, they become dizzy. But not only that, like you said, increased asthma incidence. And once you get asthma, it doesn’t go away. You have reactive airways, so then you’re triggered again whenever you encounter these chemicals.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about people who say the allergies have exploded over the last couple of years because we’re not letting our kids consume more dirt? I hear this a lot. People say it’s because we’re becoming too sanitized and our kids need to go play in the mud.

DR YVONNE BURKART: That could be it as well. But I would almost, I would like to see the data in the rise in fragrances and fragrance use overlaid on top of the incidence of allergies in children and all of these health conditions. I want to see that data. I haven’t seen it yet, and I’m hoping that somebody does these studies because I think they would be correlated.

Uncontaminated Populations and Global Chemical Spread

STEVEN BARTLETT: Have you done any research on, you know, I was thinking about other populations and civilizations and that aren’t exposed to the environmental factors we’re exposed to. And seeing how they’re getting on in terms of their health outcomes when they’re not exposed to microplastics and fragrances. You know, like some of the tribes in Africa that are still pretty close to being uncontaminated, like contaminated by human interference in the western world. Have you ever looked at any of those civilizations or societies?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. The rate and incidence of cancer is almost nonexistent. At least it was almost nonexistent. But now some of these chemicals have spread so far and wide. And one example being PFAS. They’re known as forever chemicals because they don’t degrade, they can travel so far, they basically covered the globe.

They are found in polar bear fat. So that just tells you how far up the food chain these chemicals have traveled because they don’t break down. So as soon as an animal eats it and then it gets eaten by another animal, so on and so forth, then it reaches the apex predators. Right. And it’s stored in their fat. And in polar bears it’s been seen that you can find some of these chemicals.

So we know how far and wide that these chemicals have gone, that even these tribes that are in remote locations aren’t necessarily exempt from being exposed. They’re also getting exposed. It’s just in the air, it’s in the water, it’s in the soil.

Understanding PFAS: The Forever Chemicals

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what chemicals are those? PFAS. PFAS, PFAS, what does that mean?

DR YVONNE BURKART: PFAS. So per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances. It’s a huge chemical class of about 15,000 different chemicals. And that includes things like PFOA, PFOS and PTFE, which are more commonly known as Teflon nonstick chemicals.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Like this nonstick pan that I have here.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Exactly.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So there’s that PFAS, PFAS, PFAS, yes.

DR YVONNE BURKART: PTFE is the chemical name for Teflon. So Teflon is used to create the nonstick coating. And it is believed that because it is so chemically stable that it wouldn’t come off the pan into your food. But that’s not true. There’s evidence showing that there is transfer from the cookware in normal cooking conditions into food.

Not only that, when you heat that pan high enough, it will vaporize and get into the air. And if you inhale it, you run the risk of experiencing what’s known as “Teflon flu.” And it basically has flu-like symptoms when you inhale that stuff. And so that would be considered an acute exposure. So a one time higher dose exposure. But what we really need information on are the chronic low doses that we’re getting just by cooking our daily eggs on there.

The Shocking Reality of Nonstick Cookware

STEVEN BARTLETT: Have there been any studies done on the impact of people cooking on these versus people that don’t cook with these nonstick sort of Teflon pans?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, I can tell you that they’ve measured the amount of chemicals that are coming off of the pans. And so if you’ve ever had a nonstick piece of cookware, it scratches very easily. Yeah, and some of these scratches are microscopic and invisible to the naked eye. Studies have found that a surface scratch can release 9,000 particles from that nonstick coating into your food. And if it’s a crack, that number jumps up to 2.3 billion particles that are transferred into your food.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what’s that going to do to my health? What are these PFAS doing to my health?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, PFAS are linked with several types of cancers, so kidney and testicular cancer, thyroid disorders, which, thyroid problems are so common these days, but they’re not normal. Then we have increased risk of miscarriage, preterm labor, preterm birth, preeclampsia, which is high blood pressure during pregnancy. That’s could be deadly.

You also have increased obesity. That’s linked with PFAS chemicals and PFAS also contribute to an increase in endometriosis and PCOS.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Oh really?

DR YVONNE BURKART: So people who have endometriosis and PCOS, they have found to have higher levels of PFAS in their bodies. And PFAS are found in everybody. No one’s exempt. Everyone has PFAS in our bodies, but whether or not they’re able to exert toxicity depends on your inner environment. Depends on how many other chemicals your body is working to fight off.

PFAS and Fertility: Alarming Research Findings

STEVEN BARTLETT: I just pulled up some studies here. One of the studies from 2023, which you might be aware of, showed that higher levels of PFAS in the blood of women in Singapore were associated with a 30 to 40% lower chance of pregnancy and live birth within one year. Another study sampled 381 blood samples from people trying to lose weight. And no matter the diet that these participants tried, they gained weight. If they had elevated PFAS exposure, what the hell, they gained weight even if they tried different diets?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, so these chemicals are known. Endocrine disruptors are also known as obesogens. So they’re increasing the prevalence of obesity so you store more fat and you can’t lose it.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Obesogens. I thought food was the only obesogen.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, the chemicals that you’re being exposed to, through your cookware, through food packaging. They’re also sources of these endocrine disruptors.

PFAS and Cancer Risk

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what about cancer? Is PFAS linked to cancer? Have they done any studies on that with animals or.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, in humans, it’s kidney and testicular cancer.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, what about prostate? I know that’s a big concern for a lot of men in particular.

DR YVONNE BURKART: I haven’t seen direct evidence on that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was also linked because that’s also a hormonal tissue.

STEVEN BARTLETT: A study from 2021 in mice at the University of Illinois found that a high fat diet combined with PFAS exposure could cause changes in prostate cells that promote tumor growth. Is there an alternative to PFAS? Is there something that I could use instead of this nonstick pan?

Safe Cookware Alternatives

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, just get rid of the nonstick chemicals altogether. And that would be something as simple as cast iron, stainless steel, glass cookware, ceramic cookware.

STEVEN BARTLETT: It’s just a bit more annoying, isn’t it?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I mean, nonstick cookware is amazing. I mean, you can make food slide off. Cleanup is a breeze. But at what cost? You might be saving time when you’re cooking, but how much of that time is being taken off the back end of your lifespan is the question.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So you’re saying throw this away?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I would, but see, that’s the other thing is if you are then hearing this and you’re like, “I got to get rid of my cookware.” Well, guess what? You throw that out and it ends up in a landfill. And the PFAS chemicals are now in the environment where they won’t go away.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So am I throwing it?

DR YVONNE BURKART: So it really depends, right? If you are in the position to where you can get rid of it, then it might benefit you. But the key is to really stop buying it. But you already have it, so it’s really up to you.

Cookware and Kitchen Utensils

STEVEN BARTLETT: In terms of cookware, that’s better for me. Avoid the non stick. Go for stainless steel, cast iron. What about the utensils then? So things like, I’ve got a plastic spatula here in my hand. Is this good?

DR YVONNE BURKART: No, because that’s melting. It’s breaking off into little tiny bits and fragments of microplastics and nanoplastics in your food.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So bad spatula.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes.

DR YVONNE BURKART: The silicone. The silicone, rubber. The plastic. If you just think about the fact that it’s being heated up, if you’ve ever looked at one, the integrity, you’ll see it’s starting to fray. If you see any bits coming off, then you know, it’s definitely breaking up and getting into your food.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Yeah, there’s loads of little pieces missing from the end of the plastic and I guess that’s gone into the food most likely.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Slowly dissolving over time.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. Because with non stick cookware, you can’t use metal utensils. Right. You’ll scratch the surface, but guess what? Even with that, you can scratch the surface.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So the wooden one here in my left hand, that’s better?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, at least from a safety and microplastic and nonstick chemical perspective. Yes.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Are you concerned at all?

DR YVONNE BURKART: No, not at all.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, so wood is fine.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Wood is totally fine. What people normally will say is, “I can’t properly clean the wood,” but I haven’t had that issue. Just clean it with soap and water and it is fine.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, so we’ll keep the wooden spatula. What else in terms of cooking products? So I’ve got this pan here. You’re saying this is a good one, Stainless steel?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Great. Keep that one, Keep that one. Okay, what about this nice plastic container? Super convenient. Put my lunch in it, go to work, maybe pop it in the microwave, heat it up, get my takeaway in it. Plastic container, good.

The Dangers of Microwaving Plastic

DR YVONNE BURKART: Absolutely not. Do not microwave plastic containers. Even after just a few seconds, you’ll get release of billions of microplastic particles into your food. Just from a tiny square centimeter, you’ll get billions of microplastic particles. And with microplastics, they’re hard. It’s a solid mass. It does not break down in the body.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What if it says BPA free?

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s great. But it’s still plastic, it’s still microplastic, it’s still nanoplastic releasing, and it probably has phthalates in it, depending on the type of plastic.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Right. Okay, so you don’t want to be microwaving these. And if I get microplastics into my food, what’s the net impact? What’s the harm of that?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, microplastics don’t break down, they don’t go away. Again, they’re accumulating in human tissues. So they’ve actually been found in a whole number. I’m pretty sure they’re all over the body at this point. We just have to see the evidence to know. Right. And so they’re in human lungs, blood in the gut tissue, they’re in heart, they’re in brain, they are in the placenta, they’re also in penis. And they have been detected in…

STEVEN BARTLETT: There’s microplastics in my penis?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, there could be. Studies have shown that. And even in newborn babies. So when babies are born, they have their first bowel movement, which is known as meconium. And in the meconium, microplastics have been found. So that means babies are being exposed to microplastics in utero. They’re being born with plastics in their body.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what’s the risk of that?

The Body’s Battle Against Microplastics

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, the risk is that they don’t go away, number one. And on a cellular level, they’re causing inflammation and oxidative stress. And oxidative stress is free radical damage. And what that means is if you ingest these microplastic particles, which everyone is, and they’re in your tissues and your body cannot get rid of them, then they’re basically like the equivalent of a million little fires all over your body. And unless you have enough detox capability, like antioxidants, to get rid of them, they’re there to stay.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What do you mean by detox capabilities? As in my liver and…

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, exactly. Every cell in your body has some antioxidants in it. If you didn’t, you would be dead. Because in order to live on this planet and breathe oxygen, we need antioxidants to neutralize the free radicals that happen through cellular respiration. Right. So whenever we breathe oxygen, there are free radicals that are created, and our cells have naturally in them antioxidants like glutathione, and they help to neutralize these free radicals.

But glutathione is also vital for detoxifying environmental chemicals. So if you think about it, how does the body decide what’s more important? Do I neutralize these free radicals because I need to breathe and live, or do I have to deal with these chemicals over here? I don’t know. So you’re literally being torn. Your body is torn at this point. What to deal with first, and usually it’s the oxygen I need to breathe. So let me neutralize the free radicals from breathing oxygen, then I’ll deal with these chemicals later if I have enough left in the tank, and most people don’t.

Modern lifestyles are resulting in depletion of glutathione. Our glutathione is being robbed by these microplastics by these parabens, phthalates, and other chemicals that you find in consumer products.

STEVEN BARTLETT: If you had to sum up in a sentence what microplastics are doing to us, what would that sentence be?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Slowly killing us. Over time, we’re becoming plastic. We’re actually known as the plasticine Epic. Humankind is more plastic. Eventually we will become more plastic than we are humans if we continue at this rate. There have been through over 300 million metric tons of plastics produced.

STEVEN BARTLETT: I mean, that’s a really big number, but I can’t really wrap my head around it.

DR YVONNE BURKART: And they don’t go away. They don’t go away. That’s the problem. They just continually break up into smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller fragments.

Microplastics in the Brain

STEVEN BARTLETT: A 2024 study on microplastics in human livers, kidneys and brains found that all of them contained microplastics. But the brain contained 10 to 20 times more than any other organization. The brain’s measured around 0.5% plastic by weight. That’s a Guardian article. So does that mean 0.5% of my brain is plastic?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, and that’s because plastic is fat soluble and the brain is mostly fat. So microplastics travel there through the bloodstream, we inhale them, they go to the brain and they can’t leave because the brain can. The brain does not have the ability to detoxify itself the way that other tissues do.

STEVEN BARTLETT: I guess it wasn’t expecting the plastic.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. So it’s like, “Who’s this? I can’t get rid of you, so just stay.” But then what is it doing to you over time?

STEVEN BARTLETT: What is it doing to our brains over time? I’m going to throw this away, by the way. I’m not going to microwave my food in plastic anymore. What is it doing to our brains over time, do you think? Is there any associations?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I haven’t seen any clear evidence, but my hypothesis is that it’s increasing the likelihood of cognitive decline. And the brain is one of the most important, obviously the most important organs in our bodies. And brain problems don’t usually show up until you’re in your elder years. But I would be interested to know if the rate of dementia. If people are getting dementia and other brain related disorders earlier, just like cancer, I would not be surprised if I saw that.

Safe Drinking Containers

STEVEN BARTLETT: We drink out of these stainless steel cups here on the Diary of A CEO. Are these okay to be drinking out of?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Because they’re not leaching microplastics into your drink.

STEVEN BARTLETT: BPA free stainless steel. Okay. They weren’t expensive. That’s good news. But sometimes when I go to shops and, you know, supermarkets and stuff, I grab these plastic bottles full of water. There’s been a lot of conversation around plastic bottles and water. Are these safe to drink from, in your opinion?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, if you have no other option, then that’s what you’ve got. And so I don’t want people to think, “I can never drink bottled water ever again or I’m going to die,” because that’s not the case. I myself traveled here. I had to drink from bottled water because I didn’t bring enough of my own water with me. Is that something that I’m going to panic about? No, it’s not. Is it something that I want to do? No, but I need water, so that’s my only option. But if you are able to avoid that, then absolutely avoid bottled water.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Have there been any studies done on bottled water?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, there have been so many studies showing that bottled water is a major source of microplastics. Because if you think about it, plastic is not meant to be permanent, but it kind of is. But at the same time, there are certain conditions that promote leaching. And one of them is if you put that plastic water bottle in the sun, UV causes plastic to break down, so that’s releasing microplastics, just squeezing it. Physical force is causing microplastic shearing and release.

But not just that, just over time. The plastic is just leaching on its own. Temperature is another factor. So if you leave that in a hot car, microplastics. If you’ve ever had a bottle of water sitting in a hot car and you drink it and it tasted like plastic, that’s because it is. It’s plastic. It’s becoming more plastic.

But the microplastics are releasing endocrine disruptors. Right. The same phthalates that we talked about in fragrances are also in plastic water bottles.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about these water bottles that a lot of people have now? They’re kind of like Stanley cut Starwater bottles that are made of this. This metal. Are these better?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, definitely. It’s the same as these stainless steel cups.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Yeah. Okay. So everyone should have one of these for their water.

DR YVONNE BURKART: But not only that, it’s also more sustainable. Right. Because plastic bottles make up the majority of plastic waste in the environment. And all of those are breaking up again into smaller and smaller microplastics and nanoplastics that are basically polluting everything now.

Glass Food Storage

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. So instead of that plastic container, I had this glass container for the microwave and for my food is better.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Perfect.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. But what about the lid? The lid has got these little plastic handles on it.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. So what I would do is take the lid off if you need to heat up your food.

DR YVONNE BURKART: And what I also do is keep a space between my food and the lid so it’s not in direct contact with the plastic.

STEVEN BARTLETT: How’d you keep a space?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Just don’t fill it all the way to the brim.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Oh, okay. Just keep it…

DR YVONNE BURKART: Just keep a little space.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, cool. So that’s good.

DR YVONNE BURKART: It’s the contact with the plastic. I mean, if you need the container and you need a lid to store your food.

DR YVONNE BURKART: This is. I mean, I have those too. So just. The thing is, just try to keep your food from touching it if you can.

Takeaway Coffee Cups

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. What about this coffee. Coffee cup I went to? You know, you go to a Starbucks and shouldn’t say that. You go to a coffee shop, they give you these takeaway coffee cups, which are made of, like, this sort of papery feel. Good, bad, indifferent.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Get rid of them. They’re terrible. So they’re basically lined with plastic. And studies have shown that within 15 minutes of contact with the hot liquid, you’re getting 25,000 microplastic particles in that cup. And most people. Some people don’t drink their coffee in 15 minutes. They’ll let it sit longer. And so the longer it sits, the more leaching there is.

And not only that, the lid is plastic. So as the hot liquid is passing through the lid, there could also be leaching of microplastics. That plastic lining also leaches heavy metals. So it’s. There are so many issues with that cup.

STEVEN BARTLETT: You seem really pissed off with the cup.

Water Filtration and Coffee Containers

DR YVONNE BURKART: I’m actually really. They’re so pervasive. And I remember being in Germany about 10, 15 years ago, maybe something like that. And coffee to go was new. And at the time I come from the U.S. those have been around forever. I was like, why is this new? I don’t understand Coffee to go. Why is that a thing? And my husband said it’s because we sit down and drink our coffee out of a mug. We don’t take it to go. So this is, like, appealing to tourists.

STEVEN BARTLETT: But what’s wrong with Coffee to go? Is it the container? They give it to you.

DR YVONNE BURKART: It’s the container. So if you bring your own container, Starbucks will fill it up. Or if you bring your own container, some shops will fill it up for you, and they might even knock off 10 cents because you brought your own container.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So I’d have to bring something like. I guess like this, which is a steel.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right.

STEVEN BARTLETT: With a little glass lid.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. Just. Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: It’s a plastic lid. So if you can take the lid off to drink, but if you can’t, again, don’t stress out over it.

Water Filtration Essentials

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay. We’ve been through some of these things, so far just on the consumables. Okay, fine. Okay, so, and last question on consumption stuff is about food and water. Should I be filtering my water?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Absolutely, absolutely. If you live in an area where water has been fluoridated.

STEVEN BARTLETT: How do I know?

DR YVONNE BURKART: You’ve got to check the water report. Most municipalities have water reports, and if not, you can go to the EWG, the Environmental Working Group. They have a water report database that you can check. So just type in your zip code of where you live and it’ll tell you what contaminants are found and which ones exceed safe limits. And it’s very helpful to know what.

STEVEN BARTLETT: If I get these kind of like, you know, these little plastic water filter systems you can get where you put it in the fridge, you pour the water in and then you put like a little filter thing in, you replace it and then you pour it in. Are those good?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It depends on what type of filter you have. Some of the more mainstream, lower cost, lower end options do not remove fluoride, number one. And they don’t filter nearly enough chemicals.

Tap water is a source of hormones, so endocrine disruptors, pesticides, heavy metals, fluoride, if it’s added to the water, agricultural runoff. There’s a bunch of different contaminants in tap water, and depending on where you live, some are worse than others. And there have even been tragic instances of lead, high levels of lead because of the lead piping that water is transported through. So we’ve got to be careful with the water that we’re using to drink and cook with.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And so what’s a sort of low cost solution to this for people that are concerned about the water that they’re consuming and their families are consuming?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, actually there have been studies showing that you can boil your water. So if you boil your water, that can actually remove a significant portion of the microplastic pollution in there because of, if you’ve ever noticed, after you’ve boiled water, there’s sort of a white crust at the bottom of the pot that’s actually calcium calcification and the microplastics get trapped in that calcified layer.

But that still doesn’t take care of all the other chemicals that are found in tap water. So the best option is to filter it. Some filters are more accessible and affordable than others. Reverse osmosis removes the most contaminants, but it also requires the most. It generates the most wastewater, so it isn’t the most efficient. And it also can remove beneficial minerals, which you then have to add back in because it’s not good to drink demineralized water over time.

So there are different options that you can use, but the best option, you have to filter at some point, at some level, depending on where you are. So check your water and look for a filter. So carbon filters are effective for the most part, but you want to check to make sure that the filter can remove fluoride as well.

Simple Cost-Effective Health Changes

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, well, in the show notes of today’s episode, what I’ll ask you to do is to just help us put together a bit of a list of things that you approve of relating to the subjects that we’ve discussed today. Just, you know, some of the deodorant stuff that we mentioned and also water filter systems and stuff. Because I can imagine it can be quite confusing for people.

And I imagine most people listening, they just want, they want to know what the most important, simple things that they can do to have the biggest potential impact. And also they’re going to be quite cost conscious, as we all are about not overspending on things and they don’t have thousands and thousands of pounds, but they want to make significant steps forward, I guess, to that point.

Then if you were to say to someone, what are like the simple free things we can all do or cheap things, cost effective things we can do as it relates to our cookware, things we’re consuming to make sure that we’re staying as healthy as we possibly can be.

DR YVONNE BURKART: First thing is to filter your water.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Yeah.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Second thing is to get rid of fragrance products. So you’re actually saving money by not buying bad stuff. Right. So if you can remove that, then you’re better off. Thirdly is to cook at home. Cooking at home is also significantly more cost effective than getting takeout all the time. And you’re also saving on a massive amount of toxic exposure that way.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about the types of foods we buy? Have I got to just be buying organic food?

DR YVONNE BURKART: If you’re able to, then it’s helpful. But if you can’t, eating an unprocessed diet as much as you possibly can, whole foods, single ingredient foods, if you choose to eat meat, fruits and vegetables, things of that nature, try to get the least processed option you possibly can and cook at home.

And if you can cook on stainless steel or cast iron, but if nonstick is all you have, that’s all you’ve got. Right. So just do what you can with what you’ve got, but try to eliminate the processed food as much as you can.

Beauty Products and Antiperspirants

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about beauty then? So I’ve got some beauty products here, moisturizers, got some eyeliners. This is a roll on deodorant. You’re probably familiar with these.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, that looks like an antiperspirant.

STEVEN BARTLETT: An antiperspirant? Oh, yeah, you’re right.

DR YVONNE BURKART: So that’s different than deodorant. So antiperspirants contain aluminum salts, and those physically block sweat ducts. And so what that does over time is it prevents you from sweating. Right. That’s why it’s antiperspirant. But the problem with aluminum is that there have been links to increased risk of breast cancer in young girls who use deodorant because aluminum itself also acts like an estrogen in the body.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Oh, God, it smells strong. Wow. Okay, so these roll on deodorants that are for anyone that doesn’t isn’t watching. It’s the one with the ball on it, the little ball thing that you roll under your armpit.

DR YVONNE BURKART: The key is to avoid the antiperspirant if you can. And I know a lot of people have, you know, self concerned with sweating and everything like that, but some people online have done armpit detoxes. So with apple cider vinegar and bentonite clay, you make a little paste out of it, smear it under your arms, and that can help to pull out some of these embedded particles in your sweat ducts.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What is the most compelling study that you heard about as it relates to. Because I am always from doing this podcast and reading about this subject matter, I am increasingly concerned about, you know, putting things under my armpit for a number of reasons. It’s really hot under there, but then it just feels. I don’t know. Then I read this stats around breast cancer and I thought, gosh, I’m. It’s probably not a good idea to be like lathering chemicals under my. Under my armpit. What is the most compelling study you read on this subject that made you think twice about antiperspirants?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, it was the increased risk of breast cancer in young girls that are using these underarm antiperspirants.

Foundation and Leave-On Products

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about these other beauty products then? Throw that one away. Everyday beauty products, I think I don’t even know what these products are. What do you mean?

DR YVONNE BURKART: That looks like a foundation makeup that you would put all over your face.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So you go like this.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Or concealer or something like that to help even out your skin tone, cover up spots.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Right, Good.

DR YVONNE BURKART: So that goes all over your face. Right. So products that sit on your skin, those are known as leave on products. Those comprise a higher risk than something you would rinse off like a soap or a body wash because it’s sitting on your skin, so the contact time is longer. The longer something sits on your skin, the longer time it has to penetrate the skin and get absorbed into your bloodstream. Lipstick is also a high risk product if you’re using the wrong kind because it’s going on your lips and you’re having some ingestion.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So don’t use foundation.

DR YVONNE BURKART: No, not necessarily. Find a safer foundation. So avoid, avoid the fragrance foundations.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Smells good, this one.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. So it’s got fragrances in there, I’m sure. Okay. Because foundations are usually made of chemicals. Right. Chemicals don’t always smell good. So a lot of manufacturers put fragrance in there to mask the odor.

The Lip Balm Addiction Theory

STEVEN BARTLETT: Even like lip balm. I had this conversation with my girlfriend the other day and she was lathering on her lip balm and I was like, I don’t know if that’s good for you. And she was like, it just smells so good. I was like, I just, I don’t know, just. You know, I have this conspiracy theory about lip balm that I’ve never shared with anybody, which is my girlfriend applies lip balm all the time and her lips get dry often, whereas I don’t apply lip balm ever. Any special occasions? No, I’m joking. I never apply it and my lips don’t seem to get dry unless I go on a plane or something. But I just wonder sometimes if these cosmetic products are fixing a problem that they’re creating.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, I would think so. Because if you never touched your face, what would your skin be like? Right. Some people only use water on their face. And I have found, personally, the more I mess with my face, the more products I use, the more I end up feeling like I need them because my skin is reacting differently. So it’s, I think it’s creating an issue that wasn’t there and then comes in and like, oh, this is the solution to that. It’s brilliant if you think about it from a money making perspective.

STEVEN BARTLETT: But also if I’m disrupting your hormones with all of these chemicals, then I’m more likely to be causing you to have skin flare ups and skin issues and probably even aging and wrinkles, which you’re then going to need to use some of these cosmetic products to solve for.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. And then they’re going to try and sell you some other more invasive procedures down the line.

Natural Skin and Shampoo Products

STEVEN BARTLETT: I’ve seen some people who don’t use skin products at all and have never used them because of the society they live in and they have unbelievable, remarkable skin and they don’t have the flare ups and all these kinds of things that we have over here. So I’ve always been pretty dubious. I think I’m a bit of like an evolutionist. I don’t know if that even is a thing. But just someone who has much more faith in my, my body’s natural systems for dealing with things than the modern world would lead us to believe.

Like, I don’t, I know that we live in an unnatural world. Right. So there are some things that we need. I live in, you know, we’re indoors all day, so I probably should be taking some vitamin D, for example. But outside of that, I just don’t buy that we need all of these products like, you know, shampoos and conditioners and what do you think of shampoos? I’ve got a shampoo brand here which I just got off the shelf in the local shop. Are shampoos okay?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. Again, it depends on what the ingredients are. Right. Most shampoos are heavily fragranced and heavily scented, but if you look, you’ll find some that aren’t.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Smells delicious. Yeah. Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: And it’s very highly likely that you can become addicted to lip balm and addicted to scent. I was.

STEVEN BARTLETT: You were addicted to lip balm?

Menstrual Products and Reproductive Health

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. Like you said, the more you apply, the more you need it. And then you just keep applying it. So it’s every 10 or 15 minutes. It felt like at some point. And I was using a very heavily scented fragrance, lip balm, when I was a teenager. It just was trendy at school. “What scent do you have? What flavor do you have?” And everyone was doing it, so it just became a thing.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about this? This is a tampon. What about tampons? I had a conversation on this podcast with a lady who had a toxic reaction to a tampon and lost both of her legs because of that. What’s your thoughts on menstrual products generally? Tampons, period pads.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Menstrual products contain some of the worst chemicals that should never be in direct contact with your reproductive tissues with your vaginal canal. They should just not be there. Things like benzene. There’s heavy metals in tampons. Actually, there was a study showing that women who use tampons had higher levels of heavy metals in their body. We don’t need those down there. And fragrances, again with the phthalates. They’re also found in tampons. A lot of menstrual products contain scent. Maybe that one doesn’t, but there’s a lot that do.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What’s the alternative?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It’s entirely unnecessary. The alternative would be to use organic cotton tampons. Tampons are made of cotton. Right. Cotton is one of the most heavily sprayed crops in the world with glyphosate. We don’t need glyphosate down there.

The problem is that the vaginal canal is occluded. Right. So it’s blocked off, it’s warm, it’s body temperature, and there’s also friction. So all of these factors increase and drive chemical absorption into the body. And you don’t want to be delivering some of these chemicals directly to your reproductive organs.

STEVEN BARTLETT: You think it’s going to have a big impact on fertility?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I think it could. In fact, there are a lot of anecdotal reports anyway of people saying that when they switched out their period products and went with more organic and more sustainable options, that their periods became easier.

PCOS and Endometriosis Links

STEVEN BARTLETT: Some people close to me have PCOS. I’ve also got some friends that have endometriosis. Is there a link between phthalates and sort of, you know, menstrual products and PCOS and endometriosis, in your opinion?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, there is. And there is a link with PFAS chemicals too. So these xenoestrogens are exacerbating these conditions. Because if you think about it, the uterus is an endocrine. It’s an endocrine responsive tissue. It’s hormonally active, it responds to estrogen.

You’re delivering, let’s say, phthalates through tampons directly down there. It’s going into the circulation and it bypasses what’s known as the portal circulation. Phase 2 detoxification by the liver. So it bypasses detoxification. So you’re basically delivering hormonally active chemicals directly where you don’t want them to go. They cannot be detoxified.

Toxic Clothing and Synthetic Fabrics

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about my clothes? You mentioned cotton a second ago and it made me think about the clothes that I’m wearing. How do I know if the clothes that I’m wearing are toxin free? Are there certain clothes that are and aren’t?

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s a really good question. Organic cotton is one way of knowing if your clothes contain pesticides and certain chemicals that are used in the farming of cotton. But not only that. If your clothes are made out of synthetic fibers like polyester, nylon and acrylic, those release microplastics and they’ve also been found to contain BPA, which is an endocrine disruptor. Yeah, you got to check the tag around the side.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Sometimes 95% polyester.

DR YVONNE BURKART: That’s a source of microplastics. Every time you wash it, every time you move, there are microplastics breaking off.

STEVEN BARTLETT: 5% spandex, that’s also synthetic.

DR YVONNE BURKART: So you’re basically wearing an entirely synthetic shirt.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about the chemicals that I wash it in? I’ve got some. This is where I expose that I’ve never cleaned a T shirt properly in my life. I’ve got some fabric cleaner thing here. I guess this is probably a source of toxins. I’m getting the hang of this now. Toxins in premature.

DR YVONNE BURKART: You’re right. You’ve called it out. You called it out exactly right.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So if I fragrances. If I wash my clothes in this and then I put the clothes on, I’m exposing myself to toxins.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. Because it’s covering your entire body. Right. Wherever you have the clothing touching your skin, there’s some friction, there’s movement, there’s body heat, there’s moisture that’s increasing chemical penetration and absorption into your bloodstream.

So the solution there is, if you like scented laundry care products, is again, to use essential oils. So instead of the dryer sheets that you get at the store, those actually just coat your clothing with some type of oily, waxy substance. That’s what makes them feel soft. They’re not actually softening your clothes. They coat your clothing. And so all of that is touching your skin, it’s rubbing. How much of that is getting absorbed? Right.

So if you can instead look for wool dryer balls made out of wool, people put essential oils in there and let it run through their clothing.

Environmental Injustice in Beauty Products

STEVEN BARTLETT: Something quite startling that I read when I was going through all of your work is that beauty in hair products marketed to black women often contain the most toxic ingredients.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. That is known as environmental injustice. So that’s one of the. I would say the most tragic circumstances that we’re facing as a society is that the people who are exposed to the most amount of toxins are low income people and people in ethnic groups.

And so some of these products that are marketed specifically to black girls contain some of the worst ingredients I have ever seen and I think it should be outlawed. The fragrances, the endocrine disruptors, these harsh detergents, some formaldehyde releasers. Formaldehyde is a human carcinogen. What place does it have in a beauty and personal care product? It doesn’t it needs to be removed. There needs to be better regulations and better protection for vulnerable populations.

STEVEN BARTLETT: I was doing some research and I looked at Harvard Health and it said 50% of products advertised to black women contain endocrine disruptors, which are those disruptors that are going to impact their hormones, increase their chance of things like cancer, infertility, etc, etc. Compared to roughly 7% that are advertised to white women. And these endocrine disruptors can impact fertility and increase their chance of getting cancer. Why is that? Why is that the case?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I think it has to do a lot with the types of products that certain demographics would gravitate towards. So depending on your hair type, what kind of products you might need, there really is no explanation to why these toxic chemicals are in those products in particular in such high numbers.

That’s really the problem, is why is it more prevalent for those populations than others? And I think this is an ongoing societal issue of environmental injustice and to a certain extent, environmental racism.

STEVEN BARTLETT: It really is. It really is. Yeah. You said it’s a form of racism and it’s a form of sort of environmental injustice. Are people aware of this?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I don’t think so. I think the vast majority of people are entirely unaware of this. And studies show it, because there are studies showing that the earlier you start using cosmetic products, the higher your chance of coming down with breast cancer. And the people who had the highest prevalence were African American females.

So I think it’s a combination of the fact that there is some level of racism, environmental injustice, but also a cultural and societal preference for certain products.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So black women are at the highest risk of getting breast cancer under the age of 40?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes.

Solutions and Government Action

STEVEN BARTLETT: What can be done about that, do you think? Is this something that the government have to do something about, or is it both something that we have to sort of increase our own public consciousness of and make better choices? Is there an easy solution to fix this?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I think if we wait for the government to take action, we’ll be waiting for a long time. The cosmetic regulations in the United States were not updated until recently. And before that, the last update was when they were actually created nearly 100 years prior. 100 years had gone by. No change to the cosmetic regulations? None.

Yet more and more products are being churned out without being tested, without knowing what the health effects are. And then later on we see increases in all of these diseases that we’ve been talking about. So I think instead of waiting for the government, my goal and my purpose and my passion is to empower people with knowledge and solutions so they can take steps to protect themselves.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Is there a funding issue with black owned businesses and sort of these black beauty products that is causal in all of this, in your opinion?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I think it really comes down to whether or not the creators of the products are aware of these risks and whether or not they are able to formulate in such a way that they don’t use these types of ingredients. And I think that there has been a push for clean beauty, black owned clean beauty. I’ve seen it. Could it get cleaner? Yes, I think so. So I think it’s only a matter of time before somebody creates it and so I’m looking forward to that.

Candles and Indoor Air Quality

STEVEN BARTLETT: Before we start these podcasts, what we always do is we light some candles and this is one of the candles that we light. You mentioned candles earlier on at the start of the conversation, but what’s your opinion on candles? Are they safe?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It depends on what type of candle you have. There’s basically a safer alternative for pretty much any product that you can think of. So I’m not one that says across the board, candles are toxic. It’s very specific. Conventional candles, paraffin wax, scented candles, which is what you’ll see in stores. The majority of candles out there are the ones that we shouldn’t be burning.

So this is a scented candle. It doesn’t say what type of wax it is. So we can be pretty certain that this is a paraffin wax candle. At least using the precautionary principle, we should assume that something is guilty before it’s proven innocent. So unless we know for sure that this is not a paraffin wax candle, I wouldn’t light it.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So. Because if I light it, then I’m pushing toxic chemicals into the air.

The Hidden Dangers of Conventional Candles

DR YVONNE BURKART: Exactly. So conventional candles. There are five main reasons why I would not burn a conventional candle.

Number one is that when you light those candles, they liberate carcinogens like benzene, toluene and formaldehyde. But not only that, ultra fine particles, ultrafine particles are some of the most hazardous substances that you can create in your home.

So ultrafine particles are tiny particles less than 0.1 microns in diameter. 100 nanometers. Invisible to the human eye. Tiny. And these particles have the ability to, as soon as you inhale them, they’ll go into your brain. They have the ability to do that. They also have the ability to go as far down into the lung as one can go, all the way down to the alveoli and down in those microscopic structures of the lung.

That’s where gas exchange happens. There’s only one cell layer separating the outside from the inside your bloodstream. One cell. That’s not much. Nothing. That’s pretty much no separation, no protection. So if an Ultra fine particle can get that down, far down into your lungs, it’s guaranteed into your bloodstream. It’s getting all over your body, is causing inflammation and oxidative stress, which are the basis of many chronic diseases. So ultrafine particles, we need to avoid them as much as possible. And so one way is to not light a conventional candle.

Number two is that they’re also releasing volatile organic compounds. Number three, they contain undisclosed fragrance. And within fragrance, there can be endocrine disruptors, carcinogens, and allergens. So when you light these candles, you’re getting all of these toxins into your air.

Number four, some of the dyes that are used to color candles are carcinogenic. And nobody has any idea if you burn them, what are the health effects of burning these carcinogenic dyes?

And number five, candles are largely unregulated, which means that if you were to look at that candle and it says “soy blend,” there can be paraffin wax in there. Even though it says soy blend. A lot of people think soy blend. “Oh, it comes from soy. It must be healthier for me.” So they’ll go for that. But if it says soy blend, one should assume that it’s a majority of petroleum derived paraffin wax with a little bit of soy wax in there.

Because the Consumer Product Safety Commission, which regulates candles, doesn’t look at the ingredients in the candle. They’re concerned with the vessel, the container of the candle, whether or not it’s fireproof and whether or not the lead contains wick or the wick contains lead. They’re not looking at what’s in the wax. But studies have shown that when you light these candles, you are liberating a significant number of hazardous chemicals.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So we shall use incense instead.

Why Incense Is Even Worse

DR YVONNE BURKART: Incense is even worse. And I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but incense has been used for thousands of years. But incense as we know it now is not the same as incense that was used a thousand years ago. They now contain, again, phthalates, the endocrine disruptors, but also the ultrafine particles.

And studies have shown that incense creates more ultrafine particles and pollutants than cigarette smoke. There’s an increased risk of cancer because these ultrafine particles are damaging DNA. Damaged DNA leads to mutations. Mutations can lead to cancer. There’s an increased incidence of cancer in temple workers. So people who are around incense for hours upon hours at a time, there’s an increased risk of cancer. Not only that, there’s an increased risk of cancer almost threefold in children whose parents burned incense in the home.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, so no incense. My house is going to stink.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, you can use, there’s different candles that you can use. So based on my research, I looked, I was really hell bent on finding what is the type of candle that has the lowest emissions. The least emissions. Because let’s make it really clear. Anytime you burn something that’s not necessarily healthy, but does it mean that you can’t do whatever? No. If you find a candle that is low emission, like beeswax, essential oils, wooden or cotton wicks, then that’s a much better alternative than your conventional paraffin wax scented candle. Brightly colored.

The Hidden Dangers of Vaping

STEVEN BARTLETT: One of the things that I guess is kind of adjacent to this inhaling chemicals is vaping. It’s really interesting because over the last couple of years vaping has become more and more popular around the world. I think cigarettes have declined and especially amongst young people. More and more people in my friendship group, anyway, are vaping now more than ever. What are your thoughts on vaping? Is that harmful?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, vaping. Vaping fluid liquid is a chemical mixture that you are inhaling and these chemicals have not been tested for inhalation safety, namely the flavors and the fragrances that are used. Specifically, the flavors have not been tested for inhalation because they’re intended for oral ingestion to be eaten. So they’re not tested for inhalation safety.

I used to work in a flavor and fragrance company and that was one of the biggest issues was that people were putting these chemicals that were not tested into these vapes and the health effects are unknown. But now that’s been 10, 15 years. We know that vaping is not healthy.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Shisha. You like a hookah, I guess you call it a hookah in America. I mean, that’s even worse, isn’t it?

DR YVONNE BURKART: There is also a lot of risk associated with hookah.

STEVEN BARTLETT: I checked, I did it earlier and it was like it said it was the equivalent of 100 cigarettes having a shisha, which is annoying because from time to time when I’m in the Middle East, I’ll go to one of these shisha bars, whatever, with some of my friends. But when I read that it’s equivalent to 100 cigarettes, I thought, I’m never doing that again. It’s just really not worth it.

And speaking of being in the Middle east in these sort of big built up cities, one of the things I’ve thought a lot about more recently is air quality. Air quality both indoors and outdoors. What do I need to know about Air quality indoors, outdoors.

Indoor Air Quality: Worse Than You Think

DR YVONNE BURKART: Air quality indoors can be up to five times worse than air quality outside, which shocks a lot of people. That stat comes from the Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA. The reason being is that people are not adequately ventilating their homes. And we’re doing things like cooking. Cooking generates particulate matter too. But do we need to stop cooking? No, but we need to prioritize what’s important and what’s not important.

Burning candles, how important is that to you? Make sure you’re choosing a better candle. Make sure you’re opening the windows. Indoor air is absolutely imperative if you want to improve your health. You have to clean up your indoor air.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Keep my shoes at the door. I heard you say that before.

DR YVONNE BURKART: This shocks a lot of people. But there are simple ways to improve your indoor air quality, and one of them is taking off your shoes, not wearing your outside shoes in your home. That doesn’t mean you have to go barefoot. You can wear slippers. You can wear other shoes that are specifically meant to stay indoors. And that’s because shoe soles are vectors for fecal material, poop, pathogenic bacteria and viruses, heavy metals, industrial chemicals, pesticides. Things that are outside should stay outside.

STEVEN BARTLETT: But didn’t we used to live outside as a species?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. But when we lived outside, there weren’t all these cars and factories that were spewing all of this exhaust all over the place.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Dust our house on a regular basis, you said as well Hoover sweet more regularly. And you said keep plants in the house.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Plants. Yeah, yeah, indoor plants. Make sure that if you have indoor plants, they can be really beneficial for well being. They can help to purify the air. They can to some extent, but they can also harbor mold in the soil. So just make sure. Check your houseplants for mold.

Managing Humidity and Seasonal Toxicity

STEVEN BARTLETT: What does humidity of my house matter? Because a lot of people are getting these dehumidifiers in their house now.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. Humidity can increase the growth of mold, and mold is extremely toxic.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So you want low humidity.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes. You want to keep your humidity in a steady range. So have one of those little humidity monitors. They’re just a couple dollars. You can find them at almost any store. And try to keep your humidity, you know, on the lower end, we don’t want it necessarily too high because then that will promote mold growth.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So what about seasons? Are there particular seasons where our houses become more and more toxic?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Definitely during the colder months, people don’t open their windows enough. Some of us are lighting more candles. Some people like to light wood and burn wood fireplaces and stoves.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What’s wrong with that?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Those create the most ultrafine particles that you can imagine in your home. These ultrafine particles, nitrogen dioxide, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. These are all carcinogens. They are created when you burn things. And burning wood in your home is one of the worst things that you can do. If you can avoid it, if you don’t need it to survive, consider something else.

STEVEN BARTLETT: But I’ve got a chimney, right?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It doesn’t always stay in there. It doesn’t only go up, it can come out.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So how do I. So a better way to keep my home is just by doing the central heating, the hot water. Central heating, yeah. Underfloor heating.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. But make sure you open the windows on a regular basis, too, because you want to exhaust the old, stale air and you want to replace it with fresh air. So aside from people who live near a busy highway, most people should be able to open their windows even in cold months. In Germany, there’s a practice called Luften, where you open the windows even in the dead of winter, and it lets in fresh air, it refreshes the stale air, and it makes such a huge difference on our health.

The Global Impact of Air Pollution

STEVEN BARTLETT: I was reading about indoor air pollution, and there’s some research done by the World Health Organization that says household air pollution was responsible for 3.2 million global deaths per year. This is because household pollution can cause deadly health problems such as pneumonia, pulmonary disease, lung cancer, strokes, and cardiovascular disease. The combined effects of outdoor air pollution and household air pollution are associated with 6.7 million global premature deaths annually, according to the World Health Organization.

I mean, it’s difficult, isn’t it, living in cities with so much outdoor pollution as well? And there’s not really a solution to that. I mean, we could go around wearing masks or something all day, but it’s just not going to be a good way to live.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. I mean, if you’re able to get an air purifier, that can help with your indoor environment. But the key is to remove the sources of pollution as much as you can. Just try not to create it. And then you don’t have to spend as much time trying to clean it up.

Understanding Glutathione: Your Body’s Master Antioxidant

STEVEN BARTLETT: You mentioned earlier the body has an antioxidant called glutathione. Is it possible to increase my levels of this compound? If it’s good for me. Is there something I can do?

DR YVONNE BURKART: There’s so much you can do.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay.

DR YVONNE BURKART: There’s so much you can do. Number one, you can exercise. Exercise increases glutathione. It’s very simple. Just exercise, move your body.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And where is glutathione produced?

DR YVONNE BURKART: It’s mainly produced in the liver and kidneys. And the third highest amount of glutathione in the body is in the testes and the ovaries because it plays a vital role in protecting our reproductive organs from toxicity and ensuring fertility.

STEVEN BARTLETT: It’s a chemical.

DR YVONNE BURKART: It is technically a chemical. It’s made out of three amino acids, glutamate, cysteine and glycine. And we all have it. Everyone has glutathione. Some people have more, some people have less. It really just depends on your genetics. Some people just genetically make more of it than others.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And if I make more of it, then my body’s going to be less toxic. Is that a simple way of thinking about it?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, very simplistically. Right. But that’s not counting your lifestyle.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, and what about my lifestyle could make it worse and lower? What can impact my glutathione levels? What can make it lower?

DR YVONNE BURKART: The nonstick cookware, the heavily fragranced products, eating ultra processed foods, not exercising. So being stagnant, not moving enough, all of that reduces your glutathione. Not sleeping well.

STEVEN BARTLETT: What about alcohol?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Alcohol absolutely depletes glutathione. We know that alcohol targets the liver. Glutathione detoxifies alcohol. If you don’t have enough glutathione, you can’t detoxify alcohol. Alcohol can cause cancer.

STEVEN BARTLETT: So if I’m drinking heavily and I’m also consuming a lot of these other toxic chemicals because of just my everyday life, then my glutathione is going to be depleted because it’s so focused on the alcohol detoxifying the alcohol that it won’t, there won’t be enough left to detoxify the rest of my body. Is that a simple way to think about it?

Maintaining Healthy Glutathione Levels

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right. And all the other chemicals that you’re being exposed to.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, so you want to keep your glutathione levels high.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Right.

STEVEN BARTLETT: I read that the healthy glutathione levels in an adult is 553.90 millimoles per liter of total glutathione in their blood. So I want to increase my glutathione levels to make sure that I have a better natural defense to all of these toxic chemicals in my life. I’m going to start exercising. I’m going to avoid ultra processed foods. I’m going to eat whole foods.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, whole foods, but specifically sulfur rich foods because glutathione contains cysteine, which contains sulfur, and sulfur is the part of the glutathione molecule that’s doing the work that’s protecting us. So the more sulfur you can give your body, the more building blocks it has to make glutathione.

So we eat things like leafy greens, broccoli, cruciferous vegetables, meat, eggs. Dairy can also help to increase it. There’s even some studies showing that if you consume whey protein, it can help to increase glutathione by supplying the amino acids needed to produce it. And Matcha green tea is also a really good source of glutathione building blocks.

But I think what we need to do is also remove the chemicals that are depleting our glutathione. And that’s through choosing better products, not stressing as much, and then adding on. How can we build and add more glutathione with the lifestyle changes, making sure you get adequate sleep, if you don’t sleep well enough, that’s going to impact the amount of glutathione you have as well.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Interesting. Cigarettes.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Cigarettes, absolutely. Get rid of cigarettes. Cigarettes deplete glutathione.

The Benefits of Matcha Green Tea

STEVEN BARTLETT: You mentioned a Matcha. There I am. I’m one of the owners. I’m an investor in a matcha company, a Matcha green tea company. What’s your opinion of. I mean, I’m exposing my bias here, obviously, but what’s your opinion of Matcha?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I think Matcha is amazing. If you get the right type of Matcha, you want to look for organically grown Matcha. Look for ones that are tested for heavy metals because heavy metals can accumulate in tea plants. That’s just naturally occurring. So you want to look for Matcha that’s been tested. And because you’re consuming the entire leaf, it’s important to look for the cleanest matcha you can get. But there are so many benefits to Matcha, like the fact that it helps you increase glutathione is. I’m sold. I’m sold on it.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Do you drink matcha?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I do. But we also want to avoid not adding dairy to a matcha. I know that a lot of people like to drink matcha lattes, but there’s actually studies showing that the casein protein can decrease the absorption of some of the beneficial compounds in Matcha. So if you can drink it the traditional way in Japan is just water, no sugar, nothing. Just matcha and water.

STEVEN BARTLETT: The company I’m referring to are obviously, I’ve got to disclose my. There’s probably, I’ve probably got to say hashtag ads, hashtag sponsored, whatever. I’m an investor in a company, it’s called Perfect 10 and it’s absolutely exploded in the UK. I spoke to them this morning actually and they told me that their sales have increased 5x since last year because I think people are looking to shift away from some of the canned energy products.

And there’s a lot of sort of energy benefits with Matcha. And now if you go to like a joe and the juice or any of these like Blank Street Coffee or Tesco or whatever, you can find their products in there. And it seems to be like there’s a bit of a revolution going on with energy and Matcha, which is very, very exciting because I’ve for many years I was drinking some, I don’t want to name any names, but I was drinking some of these energy products that you’ll find and I just felt bad.

And there’s something about the like energy curve of Matcha which I think is better. I feel like I’m less susceptible to crashes with Matcha. I don’t know if there’s any support there, but it’s good to hear that. It’s also, it increases my glutathione levels which will help me have less of a toxic body.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yes, absolutely. Because it is in and of itself a strong antioxidant with anti cancer properties and it can help to increase the production of energy in our cells. And so one of the things that is required to create glutathione is ATP. And a lot of these environmental chemicals are targeting the mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of the cell that make ATP. So if you’re knocking down the energy center of the cell and it’s not able to make ATP, you’re not able to detoxify, you will feel sluggish and over time diminish the quality of your life.

Empowerment Over Fear

STEVEN BARTLETT: What is the most important thing we haven’t spoke about today that you’re most passionate about? Is there anything that we missed that you think is particularly important to the many people that are listening right now?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I think the one thing that I want to emphasize more than anything is to not fear chemicals. I want there to be empowerment and not fear because chemicals are all around us all the time, whether or not you’re aware of it. But not everything is going to kill us. So being in a state of confidence and knowing that, hey, I’ve done taken some very simple steps that I know will have a big impact on my life in the long term. That’s what I want everyone to walk away with.

Simple Changes for Immediate Impact

STEVEN BARTLETT: I’m just thinking about the simple changes that I can make immediately. I think the big things that I have as takeaways are get rid of the antiperspirants that I’ve been using, get rid of the deodorants that I’ve been using, transition away from the non stick pans, stop consuming anything plastic if it’s. Especially if it’s been heated. So like plastic cups from coffee shops and plastic trays that you microwave things in my water. You said that was really critical.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah. Air quality.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Air quality. It’s quite difficult to do something about air quality. But I guess the simple thing is to open the windows and doors more often, clean the house, keep the shoes at the door.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Get rid of the scented and fragrance products, the scented plug ins, the air fresheners.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Just thinking about my dog, I was like, you know, I do love my dog, but I don’t want to be. What’s your thoughts on pets?

DR YVONNE BURKART: Well, pets can actually increase the amount of pollutants in your air. But again, if you’re cleaning your home on a regular basis, it’s not a problem. There’s so many benefits to having pets.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And cleaning their pets as well.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, yeah. So maybe consider wiping off their paws when they come back in from a walk.

Future Research and Microplastics

STEVEN BARTLETT: Is there anything else that you’re working on at the moment or any research that you’re particularly curious about? Any hypotheses you have that bubbling away in your mind about toxins in our environment that you’re yet to maybe share with the world?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I’m waiting to find out more about microplastics and the diseases that are associated with microplastics. I think that is the next emerging toxin of the year. And I think more awareness needs to be brought around microplastics and just more research is urgently needed.

STEVEN BARTLETT: I think you make a really good point that none of us are ever going to reach perfection. And that shouldn’t necessarily be the goal, but a worthy goal and a goal that we can all aim for is just to be better in some way as it relates to our environment, to improve our environment in even small ways.

And even the small improvements, as you’ve said, when you talked about the dose and you talked about how these things compound in our bodies over time. Even small improvements made today can have big impacts over the long term. And so small improvements, small things that we can change and not getting bogged down because our life and our environment is so full of toxins. And it’s always going to be really. There’s not a scenario we’re going to live in where it’s not the case. But small things we can do can have big impacts.

And as you said, you’ve made changes to your life and it’s been a causal factor of you having a family, which is a beautiful thing. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they’re leaving it for. The question that’s been left for you is if you could solve any problem in the world, but only one problem, what would it be?

A World Without Toxins

DR YVONNE BURKART: The problem of toxins. That’s too easy, isn’t it?

STEVEN BARTLETT: Predictable.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Yeah, that’s too easy. Of course it would be toxins, hands down, immediately. If I could just remove all of these toxic chemicals from our environment and just eliminate them, not send them into outer space, but just remove them from the face of the earth and just have them cease to exist, that would be the most amazing achievement I could ever imagine.

STEVEN BARTLETT: And what would life be like in such a world?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I imagine it to be like a utopia. People aren’t sick, people aren’t ill. People are well and happy and thriving and just radiating, radiant. That’s how I see it.

Where to Find Dr. Yvonne Burkart

STEVEN BARTLETT: Dr. Yvonne Burkart. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about your work? What’s the best place for them to go to get. Yeah, more information?

DR YVONNE BURKART: I have a website, DrYvonneBurkart.com I also have a newsletter that I send out called Low Tox Talks. And you can also find me on Instagram @Dr.YvonneBurkart. And I also have a YouTube channel where I love to do deep dives and get really, really geeky and nerd out on one topic at a time.

STEVEN BARTLETT: Okay, I’ll link all of that below so everyone can find you. Thank you so much for the work that you do. So incredibly important and it’s so incredibly illuminating because it’s. God, it’s so mad that we that it’s only recently, in the last couple of years that these conversations have emerged. The things about microplastics and endocrine disruptors and the link this has to fertility, our health, obesity and all of these kinds of things.

It’s so crazy that this conversation’s only emerged in the last couple of years because growing up, there was no mention of this in my household. There was absolutely no mention. And I just wonder how life could have been different for myself, but also for so many millions of people all around the world, if we were aware of this information, it’s not to say again that we can live perfect lives. And that’s never the goal. It’s never my goal.

My goal is just to have more access to information so I can make small steps and often low cost steps in the right direction. And if that increases my probability of having kids, which is the season of life that I’m in now, and increases the probability that my kids are healthy when they grow up, then that is an amazing thing. And that is the work you’re doing. You’re doing an amazing thing.

So thank you so much, Dr. Yvonne Burkart, and I highly recommend everyone goes and checks out your YouTube channel. It will send you down a really important rabbit hole because you make really, really accessible, great videos on that channel. So thank you so much for your time today and thank you for the work that you’re doing.

DR YVONNE BURKART: Thank you.

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