Transcript of Bella Thorne Interview: Call Her Daddy

We wanted to match. He didn’t like his outfit right before, and so he changed his outfit. So I changed mine like an hour before going so that we could still match.

ALEX COOPER: This is 2017. I also feel like 2017 is just very nostalgic for everyone. You know where you were in 2017.

BELLA THORNE: Uh-huh. This also felt like you’re a glitter queen.

ALEX COOPER: I was going to say glitter.

BELLA THORNE: I was so— and I was glitter before this, and then this was also there. A lot of people were like, oh my God, she’s on drugs because she’s wearing glitter. And I was like, no, man. I mean, I do smoke weed, but not on drugs. Just love glitter.

ALEX COOPER: Because I feel like every time I’ve ever heard people talk about glitter, a lot of them are parents, and they’re like, I think I have to move from my house because the glitter has just completely consumed my entire home, and I literally can’t use a vacuum enough to get it out.

BELLA THORNE: 100%.

ALEX COOPER: Was it just all over your house and you just kind of were like in your glitter era?

BELLA THORNE: It’s everywhere. It will never leave the house. I’ve found it in places you don’t want to find it.

ALEX COOPER: It’s like in your vibrator. You’re like, oh yeah, in your toothbrush. It comes out.

BELLA THORNE: You’re like, well, damn, I’m wet with glitter, bitch.

ALEX COOPER: Yes, that’s actually amazing. Okay, next. This is wow.

BELLA THORNE: Oh wow! Filthy Fangs era.

ALEX COOPER: Yep. This is from your “Bitch I’m Bella Thorne” music video. Oh man, that song— which obviously completely broke the internet back in the day. Where did this idea come from?

BELLA THORNE: It was a song that started as a joke, and then we’d play it for people and be like, oh, this is like pop it. And we’re like, no, but it’s funny, you know? It was like, I really loved the Lonely Island era and stuff with like, yeah, “On a Boat” and like digging a box. And that’s how I viewed this. That’s a good era, dude.

ALEX COOPER: That’s such a good era. No one was that serious. Everyone was having fun and being stupid in the best way.

BELLA THORNE: Exactly.

ALEX COOPER: You’re right, this is very nostalgic. I remember you said in the rap, you said, “Been inside the club since I was hella short.” Honestly incredible. What was a typical night out partying with you back then? What’d it look like?

BELLA THORNE: In this era is when I really started to go out and have fun. When I was younger, I was definitely a teacher’s pet and had been dealing with the people pleaser era for a long time, and then had to get out, had to bust out, had to break out like boom— it’s Bella Thorne, bitch, I’m Bella Thorne.

ALEX COOPER: Like I’m going completely the opposite.

BELLA THORNE: If you think about it, so ridiculous. And yeah, so then at this time I was having fun. I was in my music era too, hanging out with a lot of music people, producers, rappers, just getting after it. Yeah, getting after it. And I think you can tell from the hair and the colors that I went through.

Smoking with Snoop Dogg and the Dream Blunt Rotation

ALEX COOPER: I also heard that you are one of the only people who can keep up with Snoop Dogg when it comes to smoking. Is that true or is that true? It’s true. I’m obsessed. You’re like, yes, Alex, this is true. What is smoking with him like?

BELLA THORNE: Smoking with him is awesome. He’s got his big bus, which is insane.

ALEX COOPER: You’ve been on the bus?

BELLA THORNE: Yes. Oh, the bus is— the bus is always there. Yeah, the bus is a must. So we go into the bus, and there’s just hella people and hella smoke everywhere. It’s like, where’s the amount of oxygen compared to the amount of smoke in this area?

ALEX COOPER: Do you like weed? Yeah, yeah, I have smoked weed, but I couldn’t even— I’d enter the bus and I’d get high. I didn’t even need to hit something. Back in the day I would smoke more. Obviously now I’m not smoking because I’m pregnant, but— no, yeah, really, really? You’re not smoking?

BELLA THORNE: She’s like, I’m hitting the bong, man.

ALEX COOPER: Oh my God. But back in the day I would. I was always so fascinated by people who could just hang. Because I remember when I interviewed Wiz Khalifa, I was mentally preparing the day. I’m like, okay, I know he’s going to offer me and I’ve got to do it. Like, come on, how am I not going to smoke with Wiz? And literally I’m taking little baby hits and I’m like, next question. And my whole page— I forgot my questions and then I just started talking about random stuff with him. We were literally going off on random— we’re like— it sounds like a fun interview.

It so went off the rails. I remember everyone in the room was like, what are you talking about? I’m like, I don’t know my name. Like, I don’t know how to stand up from this. Why am I here, dude?

BELLA THORNE: I also call whose daddy?

ALEX COOPER: No, literally, I was just in his hands. I was like, take me where we need to go. I also feel like Snoop is someone who is on almost everyone’s dream blunt rotation.

BELLA THORNE: For sure.

ALEX COOPER: Who is on yours?

BELLA THORNE: Woody Harrelson.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

BELLA THORNE: Yes. And oh, it’s good. I was with him at an afterparty for this movie he did with Christian Bale, and I got to meet him and Christian Bale, who was my favorite actor at the time. My sister, who’s older than me, she got to smoke with Woody, and I was just like, I’m too young to do this publicly. So I’m not going to smoke at this party. And I just remember being like, man, can I add you to this rotation? It’s like I’m here, I’m breathing it in, but I’m not smoking. But it’s kind of happening.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, that’s a good one to have on the list.

BELLA THORNE: Right? It’s like I need it now, but I think he’s not smoking anymore.

ALEX COOPER: I think you missed your moment.

BELLA THORNE: I missed it.

ALEX COOPER: It’s okay.

BELLA THORNE: You know, but good for him. Yeah, yeah, good for him. Hell yeah. I also think this could give— this is when I hand did my house with my sister. Because why not? Hand did everything.

ALEX COOPER: Explain what you mean by that.

BELLA THORNE: Like, we individually hand glued every rose on that wall, and we took those feather boas and we staple gunned them into the roof and made a whole feather boa roof.

ALEX COOPER: There’s a dinosaur in a different room.

BELLA THORNE: In the different pinks in the— I’m like, oh, forget about the dinosaur.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, yeah, forget about the dinosaur.

Bella’s Wild Home and the Dinosaur Gift

BELLA THORNE: Let’s talk about the feather boa roof.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, there’s a dinosaur, and this is, from what I understand, this is your dining room.

BELLA THORNE: Yes. Yeah, that’s our dining table. We had fun painting that dining table. I got the dinosaur from my sister Derek as a gift for one of her birthdays because she loves dinosaurs. She always has. And so I went to a props house and I was like, I want to get like a big-ass dinosaur because why not? Yeah, because she f*ing loves it, man.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, eating dinner every night, like, why not just have— what a cool birthday gift.

BELLA THORNE: Like, is that like a T-Rex?

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, right. Or a velociraptor, unclear.

BELLA THORNE: Oh, I think you’re right, it might be a velociraptor. Yeah, I think you’re right. And you see the next room is completely blue and green. It’s split down. Is that a horse back there? That is a horse. Yes. Yeah, we got that made for one of our Coachella parties. And then like, what do you do when you create things and then get things made? And you know, you can’t throw beautiful art away, just bring it back, which makes me like a packrat. I end up looking a little bit like a packrat, but I’m not in that era, and that’s important to mention.

ALEX COOPER: This is— this is when we talked at the beginning where we’re like, you are so— we’re reflecting that you’re like, “This is so not who I am anymore, but just so you know, this once was.” So are the dinosaurs not in your home currently? No.

BELLA THORNE: And you know what, the person who bought my last home, his children loved the home. We designed that home as well. It was like one, right? You could see the evolution, like, “Oh wow, this is like classy but still crazy. Like there’s still flowers everywhere, but it’s not like this.” And then we brought Derek to that house, and then his children, when they walked in and they saw that house, they wanted to keep it all the same. And so Derek is with a new family now. Derek! Yeah, just pretty cute.

Baby Bella and the Beginning of a Public Journey

ALEX COOPER: Okay, last one, maybe best one. Are you ready? Baby Bella.

BELLA THORNE: Dude, my hair is kind of curled like that right now.

ALEX COOPER: You kind of look alike, right? What’s happening? Whoa, I’ve de-aged! There are no notes on this outfit. Really? Because it was such an era. The fedora, the layering. Like, how do you remember feeling when you were suited up this way?

BELLA THORNE: We had so much fun. There was so much fun to be had. And I remember when they made my CC boots and they were these paint splattered, really like kind of 3D art sort of boots. And I love paint splatter. I’ve loved it since then. It’s like really become— and like color washing, it’s like a big thing that I just really love. And it all kind of really starts back at this, at this era and this time. It’s so weird to think I’m 12.

ALEX COOPER: That’s why I was like, I needed to end with this so we can almost start with this, because it’s like this photo, I feel like, really— yeah, it was the beginning of your journey in the public eye, and it changed your life. And let’s get into it. And maybe it’s like the return of the red. Like, it feels like we got— we gotta go down that path for a minute.

BELLA THORNE: Oh my God.

Learning to Dance for Shake It Up

ALEX COOPER: Obviously this role had a lot of dancing involved, and I’ve heard that that didn’t come naturally to you. Can you tell me more?

BELLA THORNE: You want me to talk about one of the darkest traumas of my life?

ALEX COOPER: Let’s talk about it.

BELLA THORNE: Let’s bring it up.

ALEX COOPER: What happened?

BELLA THORNE: Yes, I could not dance. I had 2 left feet and was so bad in general. And I could freestyle well. I knew a beat and loved to dance when I was little and stuff. I would dance on tables. My mom likes to say growing up. So it was always wild. 6 years old on the table. And yeah, I had rhythm, and then when it came to choreography, I had no experience whatsoever. And really, like, then experienced the 2 left feet situation. That was so horrible. I mean, one of the worst times too. I would cry a lot. I would definitely cry a lot afterwards. And I was in a room full of amazing dancers, so talented. And here I was in the front, so horrible, and all the people that deserve to be in the front are in the back of me. And I’m like looking to them like, “Why am I here?” And it was a really weird experience in that way.

Chris Thompson, who’s the creator of the show, he was like, “When you walked in that room, you were CeCe Jones, and there was nothing that no one could do about it.” And yeah, so she’ll learn to dance, which I did. Wow, man, did I learn.

ALEX COOPER: Well, that’s what’s so interesting is like, that’s kind of cool though to know that they saw you as this character even though so much of the character required dance and you were like, “I literally can’t do that.” And they’re like, “We’ll figure it out.” And they wanted to cast you anyways because I feel like so many people are always fascinated, like you’re this young kid, you obviously start like not fully being able to go to real normal school anymore because this becomes your whole life. Who did you hang out with from the network? Like, did any of them become friends?

Growing Up in the Disney Era

BELLA THORNE: I didn’t so much hang out with people from the network. I hung out with Zendaya. We hung out. Shake It Up was in a different time when Miley and Selena and Demi and those shows, they were all, I think, 16, 17 when we were starting. So the eras are so different and yet they intersect. And I remember when I was 12, people asking me, comparing us all, all the Disney girls, with Miley and Selena and this new era and asking which was going to be the next bad girl. And “Are you going to be like Lindsay Lohan?” And like all these things that at 12, 13, you’re just— your brain is like trying so hard. Like, “Am I going to be like, what? Like, what is the question?” Like, it’s such a weird— yeah, 2012, that is so crazy.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, it’s like, it’s almost like what’s so weird about that Disney era is you look back and so many kids that went through it, there was this experience where you were expected to stay kind of like a child because that’s the demographic that you’re appealing to. And yet the press is like waiting for that 16th birthday, 18th birthday where you’re like— they’re like weirdly sexualizing you even though you’re 12 years old. And so you’re having adult conversations somehow when you’re still a child, and you’re like, “How is this working?”

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, you’re also spending all of your hours a day on set with adults. It’s like such a different— the brain’s like, “How do I—” and I’m expected to be this child, but I’m also working hours like an adult and being in adult conversations. And when I f* up, it’s my bad. Not like a child, it’s my bad. Like, you’re an adult, it’s your bad, and you’re 12. Yeah. And it’s like the brain, I think, has a really hard— I think just like cheers to everyone making it out alive.

ALEX COOPER: Like, well, because there’s no way to be that young and to be surrounded by that many adults and have that become the norm, to not have an impact on your mental health to some degree.

BELLA THORNE: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: I like how you referenced though, like, you did have a relationship obviously because you were in a duo with Zendaya.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And that, I’m sure having someone of a similar age was at least—

BELLA THORNE: Thank God—

ALEX COOPER: helpful in that.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Do you remember the first time that you met her and like what was your first impression of each other?

Meeting Zendaya

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, meeting at the screen test, like the mix and matches and then the screen test. And I remember at the mix and matches, I think I liked her immediately. I think that our chemistry was the best. And I remember thinking, “She’s so tall and I’m so short.” And then when they put us together for the screen test, I was like, “Oh, okay, they like it.” And I remember us having to do the dancing and the freestyle, and I was like, “Okay, she can dance and I’m not a dancer.”

ALEX COOPER: Okay, I’ve got other things.

BELLA THORNE: My mom was like, “You’re going to work on it.” Yeah, I did end up taking, like, between the pilot and the series of it being picked up, I did for that like 7 months take 3 dance classes a day. And like would do the auditions during the day and then, yeah, that during the night. And I was like, “I’m going to be able to do this.”

Being Pitted Against Each Other

ALEX COOPER: And I think something that was interesting from that era that is so prevalent even still today in media is like— and I know you’ve talked about it a little bit before— of like how you and Zendaya were pitted against each other at that age on the show, even though it’s like you’re supposed to just be a duo. And like, why can’t we uplift both of you? People can’t—

BELLA THORNE: They don’t— women with women, it’s just, nope, we have to make you guys all beg for one spot so that we can have the 80 other million ones. But if you guys can beat each other down and like scrape till the— whatever extent we’re asking you to, like eat yourselves alive while we have all these spots. But for women, just one, just one of you. And it’s like, I mean, man, the patriarchy has been doing it obviously since the beginning of time, but it really like— yeah, you just go back and you’re like, “Goddamn, they were 12.”

ALEX COOPER: Like, literally 12.

BELLA THORNE: Crazy. What’s wrong with you?

ALEX COOPER: You’re an adult. And also it’s a duo. Like, yeah, we’re not beating each other out.

BELLA THORNE: You’re supposed to be best friends. We play best friends. No, the role calls for a boba. It got pretty bad. And then you have your families and you have the rest of the set and everything. And I think it got to a point where when we were on our Good Luck Charlie crossover, we escaped to another set in the middle of live taping, which is really ballsy, badass, and rebellious.

ALEX COOPER: Very rebellious. What do you mean?

BELLA THORNE: We snuck out. We knew that we had 3 scenes until we were up again, and we were just like, let’s just go talk. And we did. And we escaped to another set that wasn’t being used on another soundstage. And we’re hiding up there, and then they were looking for us. We stayed a little too long. They were looking for us for that next scene.

And we got into it, like hashed it out, and it was so beautiful. It was my first experience woman to woman, girl to girl, where you actually can speak and you can both be heard about the different things you’ve been experiencing and what people are saying and how they’re trying to do this to you. And you can walk out of there like seeing each other. I think it’s definitely in there in the book still as one of the most genuine girl-on-girl talks.

Navigating the Rivalry Narrative

ALEX COOPER: Well, what’s also so crazy about that is how young you were, and to have all of the people that were pitting you guys against each other be adults. And so the fact that the 2 children in the room — 14-year-olds at this point — were able to be adults enough and be like, “Can we just have a private moment? Because are you feeling what they’re trying to do to us?” And to be able to hash it out, that’s really incredible to have the foresight from both of you to be able to have a mature conversation. Because parents and managers and all the people, directors — I can imagine a lot of kids in Disney were like, “Oh, of course I thought that person hated me because an adult’s telling me that.” So the fact that you guys were able to see through it.

BELLA THORNE: And the media is telling you this, the fans are telling you this. Love you guys, but y’all be out there getting a little too crazy. Can we all give everybody a little bit more grace? Can we just let everybody breathe just a little bit more?

ALEX COOPER: I also think because the backstory — I can’t speak for Zendaya, but for you, I know your journey was — this wasn’t just something that you stumbled upon and you were like, “This is fun.” Like, you became the breadwinner at 13 years old. So this was putting food in your entire family’s mouths. And so to reduce it to girl-on-girl drama — this was a full job for you.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, I couldn’t afford to make a mistake in that way or be like, “Oh, I’m going to have drama,” or revel in anything. I didn’t. Yeah, so Daya definitely was probably the only person on the channel that I hung out with.

Becoming the Family’s Breadwinner

ALEX COOPER: And it’s like, because the theme too of you being 13 and taking on real adult responsibilities — can you share just what was your family’s dynamic and financial situation prior to you getting Shake It Up? And then when you got it, what did that mean to your family?

BELLA THORNE: When we moved to LA, my father died shortly after when I was 9, and he did not leave us with anything — no life insurance or anything like that. So my mom was — I don’t even know how she did it — 4 kids and nothing, and a house in her name that she didn’t sign for, in foreclosure.

And he died in a motorcycle accident, so it was quite sudden, and it was just really bad for a long time. My mom was working. She was also trying to take us to every audition that she could, and you’ve got 4 kids all with auditions all on opposite sides of the town. Just kind of running herself ragged, as well as us just knowing all the time what was going to happen if we didn’t get that job.

Yeah, it was a sh*y way to, I think, learn how to work, and yet it’s one of the things I’m most thankful for at the same time. That’s something I know I can always do — is work.

ALEX COOPER: At such a young age — I’m so sorry obviously for everything you just described — that’s so much as a kid to take on. It sounds like you’re basically just in fight or flight 24/7 once your father died and your whole family, including your mother, is scrambling to be like, “Somebody get a job.” And then you happen to be the one that got the big job on Shake It Up.

BELLA THORNE: And we knew there was going to be money — food on the table, money for the house. We knew that at least we would have a constant paycheck. And that was just — we’d get a guest star on a show and be like, “Oh, maybe they’ll make you a recurring, maybe they’ll make you a recurring.” And I had done other things, but this was that thing of, “Oh, thank goodness.”

And I remember my mom couldn’t coach me for the audition because I was always the girl that was really good at drama and the dark things, but I wasn’t the funny one. And that was my sister Dani, and she tested on Wizards.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

BELLA THORNE: And so my mom knew that at least she had gone far enough with Disney and they liked her. So she had her coach me for the audition and pick out my outfit, which I’ll never forget — it was like this off-the-shoulder ’80s style sweatshirt that has a “CC” on it, which is why we wore it. And like these leggings and these little gray ballet flat things. And yeah, I wore that outfit almost — I think it was 13 times. Every callback you’re wearing the same thing. Yeah, it was my good luck outfit.

Family Dynamics and the Weight of Success

ALEX COOPER: I also am wondering — having your whole family essentially be in the dynamic of “someone make enough money to help us all survive” — there’s probably something so exciting at first where you’re like, “Oh my God, I got it, I’m the one that’s going to — I’ve got this big thing.” But then also, that’s oddly now everyone’s like, “Okay, so now we all have to turn our attention basically to you because now we support all of our energy into supporting Bella.” But that’s a lot of responsibility.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: How did you and your mom at that young of an age even discuss that?

BELLA THORNE: My mom checked me real quick. I remember when we finally got to move and we were going to rent a house, so that was very exciting. We’d stayed in this 2-bedroom apartment for a long time at that point — Stefan and the 4 kids and Mommy. So it was kind of a lot. And then when my dad would come in and he would stay.

I remember the excitement. I’ll never forget, it was like raining — which it doesn’t often in LA — and we had just gone to the grocery store and everyone’s in the car and I’m all the way in the back and my mom’s talking about these different options of houses that we could rent. And I said something like, “Well, I should also get to pick. I should also have a say because I got the show.” My mom turned around and said, “What? What? What child?” Yeah, I’m from Florida, so it didn’t go down well.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, she was like, “Don’t even think about it.”

BELLA THORNE: An 11, 12-year-old child thinks she should have a say in the house? But then at the same time you’re like, “Yeah, but don’t I also get to say I just want a room?”

ALEX COOPER: No, you’re also like, “But yeah, because we’re getting a house because I’m going to go work now.”

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, like, “I want the princess bed, right? Can I get the bed?”

ALEX COOPER: “I want the bed.” But okay, this is where I think this leads to understandably very complicated dynamics. Because yes, it is hard — I’m sure with your other siblings it’s like you don’t want to come off as — but it’s like, but you are making all the money. How did you and your mom talk about the money that you earned and where that was going and what you were going to do with it?

BELLA THORNE: I don’t know that it was ever that spoken about. When we were modeling, we would get like $5 or $10 for each job, and then we’d get to go to the store and buy toys. And I think that now you went from making like $100 with your modeling job and then like $10 to you or whatever, to like, “Oh, actually now you’re making a SAG rate as a child.” I forget their day rates, but maybe it’s $800 to $1,000, somewhere in there. So now you’re dealing with, “Oh my God, this isn’t just $50 I can pocket” — which is something — but now this is something else. This is a different thing.

And I’m not sure that anyone was ever given the proper tools to speak about money. It was like, “You got that job, we got that job. Oh my God, we’re going to go out to dinner. Let’s go to the store.” My mom was very big on rewarding yourself. And that’s something she definitely taught me from a young age. And now I’m like, “Mommy, I need to say, girl—”

ALEX COOPER: Mommy.

BELLA THORNE: But yeah, that was one thing that she always wanted to make sure — that we celebrated ourselves, that it didn’t always go nowhere in a sense, nowhere we could see or celebrate. Celebrating you still being in a house. But as a child, you don’t quite understand — you just understand it’s scary and it’s really bad, and hopefully we never go there. And that’s why it’s always going to be this conversation. We’re never going to get to what that conversation is going to look like.

The Momager Dynamic

ALEX COOPER: And I know you and your mom have had a long journey of a relationship, as most children with their parents do, but obviously I think there was an added level for you because your mom wasn’t just your mom — she then was your manager. How did you guys navigate that dynamic?

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, the momager thing. Not really sure how we navigated it. I had a manager, which I still work with — Thor. I just worked. I don’t know that there was any navigating. It was like, “This is an amazing opportunity, should we do this? Should we do that?” Coming off of the channel, so much pressure. “What are you going to do after the channel? You’re not going to stay another year, you’re going to go.” And I really wanted to do more acting.

And I remember that pressure just being so high coming off of the channel. “You can’t do this because you’re still funny, you can’t do that because you’re a little girl but you’re also a teenager, so you can’t do this because you’re not a little girl anymore.” And it was just 8 million things at once where your brain is like — I think a lot of that period of my life is sort of blocked out in a way.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, you just needed to get through it.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: I can’t help but also feel for you, Bella, when you’re talking about that too, because it’s like the feeling of — I’m sure after long days of work you’re going home and then this momager role obviously isn’t just going to turn off. And so there’s so much pressure of like, you just want to be a daughter for a second with your mom and be like, “I got to leave my work at home.” But instead it’s like planning what the next thing is. Do you remember a specific moment that when you look back you’re like, “Oh, that’s a good example of where lines were kind of blurred between I needed my mom and instead I was kind of getting my manager?”

Bella’s Relationship with Her Mom and Leaving Home

BELLA THORNE: The feeling of going home was literally just wanting to be good at something. I felt like I tried so hard to be good at all the things in my life and it was just never enough. I try and take some of that pressure off myself now, but it’s kind of beaten into me in that way, hard to just get away from it. To retrain the brain and new thoughts.

I just wanted to be good, and I just never was actually good. There was always more, and then with the comparing and always never enough. And then I got really close to my teacher on Shake It Up. And I love to learn, and I would go home and she would give me a lot of homework, and that’s what I would stay up all night doing. And my mom would get so mad, like so mad, and she put a complaint in. Love you, Mommy. I’m sorry.

She put a complaint into Disney like, “This— she doesn’t have time to study her lines at night because she’s doing so much schoolwork.” And my teacher never backed down. She still gave me just as much. My teacher Monique on Shake It Up too, she brought me from like 3 levels in 2 years. I went from not being able to add and subtract double-digit numbers at 12, which is not good, to doing like 3 grades above and being able to read in front of people and being so good at math. Which I’ve mostly forgotten now. Just such a dick. Such a dick, man.

But yeah, that was definitely a time where I was like, “You could be more mommy than manager.” I definitely need to know my lines, but school is also something I was so made fun of and so bad at, to then be actually good at something. And I just wanted to keep being good at something, right?

ALEX COOPER: And it’s like, yeah, that’s such an interesting point about developmentally you’re feeling behind, and to not have your mom be more like, “Oh my God, I want to make sure my daughter is set up for the rest of her life in that way.”

Understanding Her Mom’s Perspective

BELLA THORNE: She’s right, and I feel like it’s because she had to deal with that so much growing up. My mom came from such a bad and broken household that all she wanted to make sure was that her kids weren’t going to have to worry like she was. And she did. She set me up for that. I always have to worry. I always have to keep working.

But she pushed me to give me a chance that so many people don’t get in that way. And whether it was through a lot of tears— I feel like she’s like a really hard soccer mom. You’re like, “You didn’t kick the ball hard enough.” Your mom gives you that look, the death stare, like, “Oh Jesus, I’m so scared now.” That look—

ALEX COOPER: It’s—

BELLA THORNE: Your mom ever give you that look?

ALEX COOPER: Maybe not as intense, but yes. But I know that— I know the feeling where you’re like, “I just want to make my parent proud.” But also when you step away from it again in this reflective era, you’re able to look back and have grace for both your mom from knowing what she came from, for sure. But also it doesn’t take away from the fact that it was— oh my God, it was so hard. And you just actually wanted your mom to be your mom. And as much as she probably from her own trauma as a child was like, “Oh my God, money is all that matters, that will make them feel safe.”

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Your intellect and your intelligence and developmentally, you were actually really struggling and you really— it sounds like you didn’t feel great about yourself in that area where you’re getting made fun of, and you’re like, “I actually want to pour also into this.” And so you’re trying to do your homework at night and to have your mom be like, “No, just focus on the paycheck”— it must have been so divided for you where you’re like—

BELLA THORNE: I would tell my mom, I’d be like, “I don’t know why you’re so mad at me. I don’t know why you do this to me. I eat my vegetables, I love vegetables, I’m good at schoolwork, I do my schoolwork. I try so hard, and so many other kids— I don’t do drugs, I don’t do this, I don’t do that.”

And man, I would say that to her quite a few times. And I felt like I literally did what people in movies and in books said. If you did this, you were a good child. If they ate their vegetables, if they did good in school, if they said please, thank you. I always had manners. I didn’t talk back to my mom till I was 17. Literally. And I always had this feeling. And now I get to experience my mom in such a completely different way, which is very healing, very rewarding.

Sibling Dynamics and Resentment

ALEX COOPER: What was your relationship like with your siblings? Because were you ever resentful? Like, “F*, I just wish I got to be one of— like how they’re living,” more maybe a normal situation compared to— there was so much pressure on you because if you dropped the ball, it wasn’t a normal kid dropping the ball and you didn’t do your homework. It’s if you drop the ball and you get kicked off the show, then you’re literally losing the house and you’re losing everything. There were higher stakes for you than your siblings.

BELLA THORNE: I don’t know that I had time or the mental space to even be resentful in any sort of way. I always felt that they were resentful of me, because there’s only like one mom, my dad’s dead, so we don’t have that other person. And there’s just this one mom who only has this amount of time, and I’m taking up all the time now. So I always felt that that kind of in a way somehow distanced me a little bit. I always felt like, “Don’t look at me funny, it’s not my fault, right?”

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, “If anything, I wish there was more attention on you guys. I don’t want all this pressure.” Did you ever have conversations with any of your siblings about that as you got older?

BELLA THORNE: As we got older, yes, we’ve— I think we’ve had conversations about what it just was like to grow up in that way. But I don’t know that they would ever tell me if they were genuinely resentful.

ALEX COOPER: No, it is so interesting when you think about sibling dynamics growing up in a household and how different people experience your parent, right? Like you experienced your mom one way, completely different— the fact that some of your siblings may be like, “I was vying for her attention,” and you were literally like, “I just wanted a break for a second. I just needed a second.” It’s so interesting how under one roof you can experience such a different, complicated dynamic with one individual, and you understandably are too young to be able to share that experience. And so it’s kind of quite isolating. You’re just in your room alone, and they misunderstood you probably, and you misunderstood them. And that’s a lot as a kid.

BELLA THORNE: And we weren’t given in that time at all any resources to help. There was no resources. There was no “talk to your children about this, talk about that.” There was no “children have consent.” Consent? What? A child gets to consent? I thought that the parent is in charge of the child and the child has to do whatever the parent says to do. “What do you mean consent is a new word?” You learn so many things now that were never— those were never a thing.

The Breaking Point: Leaving Home

ALEX COOPER: Do you think, Bella, because I know you’ve talked about it and I know you and your mom have— it seems like you’ve, I know I think you went to therapy together and you repaired your relationship, but there was kind of this fallout moment between you guys.

BELLA THORNE: I was turning 18 soon, and I could feel the erraticness coming there again, not having the space to be like, “Let’s actually talk about what happens when you turn 18.” I think I was so scared, and my mom was so scared. We were both so scared. And when I was shooting Midnight Sun, I turned 18 on that movie right before we started shooting, and yeah, it was not a great time.

One day in the middle of the night, I think she could tell that I was starting to have financial meetings, to start to meet with business managers and kind of actually understand what was happening there. And yeah, that ended quite fractured, and I moved out that night with my boyfriend at the time, Greg. And yeah, in a blink of an eye, I’m this one person, and moments later, I’m a completely other person, and I have no idea where to go or what to do. I don’t have an ID, I don’t have anything. I literally don’t have anything, but I’m just going to go because I just can’t do this anymore.

I think between everything with a lot of the work and growing up in the way that I did, I struggled very badly with suicidal thoughts and depression. I thought at one point, if I had hurt myself, that maybe she would see how much pain I was in. And I knew when I was there at those thoughts that I had to leave. I was like, “I don’t want to keep thinking about that.” So that was, to answer your question in a long-winded way, the crux of leaving.

ALEX COOPER: You had to protect yourself.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: You were realizing like, “If I keep going at this speed, I may not be here anymore.”

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And that’s not what anyone wants. So I have to leave. As much as it’s going to hurt her and it’s going to hurt me, it’s going to hurt less than staying. When you did leave though, you left basically your siblings also. Did you have any understanding of how to access your bank account and all that information? I can’t even imagine.

Learning to Be an Adult

BELLA THORNE: No, I didn’t have any of that information. And the person who I was dating at the time, Gregg Sulkin, who I love very dearly, and we went through so much together in this time— he showed me how to be an adult. Which is a lot to ask of your relationship, someone that you’re dating. But you’re like, “Oh my God, this person is really not an adult yet.” And he was always like, “That’s weird you don’t have access to this,” or “You need to know these things.” It took me to get my ID, it took me to—

ALEX COOPER: Why didn’t you have an ID?

BELLA THORNE: I didn’t drive. I don’t drive. So I never got my driver’s license. And so then I had a state ID at some point.

ALEX COOPER: It was just basic— to some people more basic life skills that you just didn’t have.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

Breaking Free: Identity, Rebellion, and Relationships

ALEX COOPER: And then once you finally pulled away from kind of being in that house with your mom, you’re like, whoa, although I felt like a kid for so long, I am 18. Maybe I should know what my bank information is, and maybe I should know all these things. And what’s so hard is sometimes it does take that extreme of a break away from a parent when it is that codependent situation. And then other people being like, wait, wait. Like Greg being like, “Wait, babe. That’s weird. No, no, that’s weird.” And someone who just loves you for you and is just like, “I have no skin in the game,” to then help.

I also think there must have been such a turning point when you leave Shake It Up and you’re basically done with your Disney era. We’re dealing with obviously you going through mentally this rupture with your family essentially, but then also you’re leaving an environment that had such expectations on you as a human being. And I think a lot of people have talked about this — the Disney kid and what you were supposed to be and emulate and present to the world. Meanwhile, it’s still a time that you’re trying to figure yourself out as an adult. How did you manage trying to soar in your own right and find your own image outside of those really specific constraints that they put on you?

BELLA THORNE: Well, I think people can see how I’ve managed it publicly. They can see it. They’ve got photos of it. They got all the photos. Oh, wow. I don’t know that I ever handled it or balanced it out correctly. I don’t think that I ever had that mental clarity.

I’ve worked a lot on the more recent side. I got to a point where I just needed to kind of change things in my life and get better. I was working so much and yet was leaving very little time for the things that I really, really cared about. And so I started to focus on that this year and last year. And then after I made this movie, Color Your Hurt, I put all the heart and soul into it and then didn’t have much left afterwards and really wanted to get into the mental health aspect and the brain aspect and just get better on things and give myself some space to breathe and grace.

So I don’t think I ever did that when I was younger, but I do remember when I turned 18, and in that 18 to 19 year, I was like, “I’m free. Like, I’m literally free.” I’m walking into this house and no one’s asking me when I’m going to be there, or when I’m going to leave. It was such a — yeah, and you don’t know what’s weird until someone else tells you it’s weird, right?

ALEX COOPER: And then you’re like, oh, my situation’s not normal.

BELLA THORNE: Like, my mom held my hand walking across the street, and for good reason, because streets are scary and sidewalks are scary and side situations — I don’t like them. Roads, don’t like them. Driving, don’t like it.

ALEX COOPER: However, I don’t like it. True.

BELLA THORNE: But yeah, like, I didn’t walk across the street without holding her hand until I was like 16, 17 for sure. And I’m still — I run across the street. When I cross the street, I run.

ALEX COOPER: But I think that’s what’s so interesting, Bella, because I sprint. I literally sprint. If you see me out in public, I’m sorry, I’m not walking. No one’s chasing me, we’re fine.

I think though that’s kind of like the weird dichotomy we were talking about earlier — you’re a child around adults, so you have to act like an adult, and you’re forgetting your lines, and all these adults are mad at you. But then you’re still being treated like a child by the adults in certain situations, but really being adultified when you’re on set. But then money and all of this is being kept from you, and you’re just like, am I, or am I not?

BELLA THORNE: And that’s something that you really start to see a change in when you start to bud. Like, “budding” is such a weird phrase. Like, am I a flower?

ALEX COOPER: But you’re paying the bills, right?

BELLA THORNE: It’s weird. But when you start to get more feminine and womanly, that’s another thing that starts going into that little equation that you’ve just said.

ALEX COOPER: All of it.

BELLA THORNE: And that starts getting weird too.

The Media’s Scrutiny and the Rebellion That Followed

ALEX COOPER: You don’t physically look like a child anymore, but you’re still mentally operating like, “Well, what does my mom say? What does my mom say?” And then eventually you’re like, should I keep asking what my mom says, or should I move out? Then you move out, and then I remember the press was so hard on you. I literally wrote down they would say things like “child star gone wild,” “Lindsay Lohan in training.”

BELLA THORNE: I know, imagine telling a 12-year-old that, right? You said what? And it’s like, Lindsay Lohan, right? I loved those movies.

ALEX COOPER: Parent Trap? What do you mean?

BELLA THORNE: What’s wrong?

ALEX COOPER: You go from working when most kids are just experimenting and doing things, so then when you get away from that, it’s understandable that you’re going to go experiment. This is not a new idea. We’ve seen it.

BELLA THORNE: People were debating if I was wearing a training bra or a bra. Like, can we —

ALEX COOPER: No.

BELLA THORNE: Can we think about it?

ALEX COOPER: No, no, no. And so these — yes, they’re sexualizing you to a degree where you’re like, “I literally can’t win. This is really weird.”

BELLA THORNE: “Don’t look at them.” Not the puffy nipples. You know when you get to that stage, the puffy nipple comes first, and that is the worst, and everyone is talking about it.

ALEX COOPER: How do you think all of this — I know you were talking about that early relationship with Greg, but all of the oversexualization and people talking about you — how do you think it impacted your early relationships and what you were looking for in dating?

BELLA THORNE: Not well.

ALEX COOPER: Not well.

BELLA THORNE: We’ll start there. I think when something has been put on you for so long, my response was, “Okay, then I’ll take it. Okay, you want me to be that? Then I’ll be it, and I’ll be it even more. How about that? You really want to f* with me? How about this?” And that is kind of how I grew up.

And then when people would point that out, like, “Oh, so you’re really trying to be bad, right? Because you’re a Disney girl.” Then that would really send me soaring in anger. Someone seeing that, seeing you for who you are in that moment, and you’re trying everything else to be something else in a way — it’s a really weird — it’s not a phase, Mom.

ALEX COOPER: Right, right. You’re trying to prove everyone wrong. You’re like, “No, no, no, I’m not affected by that.”

BELLA THORNE: Right. And then at some point I was just like, “Oh, you think I’m f*ing — look at her, wow, she’s hot. Oh, you want to see sexy? I’ll show you sexy.”

ALEX COOPER: It’s like you’re like, “I’m going to push back 10 times harder. If you’re going to tell me I’m this, then watch, I’ll do it. Watch me.”

BELLA THORNE: No, bitch, you want me in my hoe phase? Watch and learn.

ALEX COOPER: But at some point I feel like that is actually what causes the rebellion — like, how many times are you going to —

BELLA THORNE: Are you going to do it?

ALEX COOPER: Then I’ll just do it.

BELLA THORNE: Uh-huh.

ALEX COOPER: Then I’ll do it. Literally, you have to stop seeking because if you’re going to keep saying it, right — you wanted it so bad. And you’re saying it when I’m not doing it, so I might as well do it. Let me see what this is all about.

Relationship Hopping and the Fear of Being Alone

ALEX COOPER: You have called yourself a relationship hopper before in the past.

BELLA THORNE: I was like, someone call the therapist, call her in.

ALEX COOPER: I want to hear from you. What was it like when you would have spurts, even if they were small, alone, that you didn’t like about that?

BELLA THORNE: I was never alone. I always had my vibrator.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, “Alex, please do not assume, because I was absolutely always —”

BELLA THORNE: The clickbait of this video, guys, go watch the Call Her Daddy interview.

ALEX COOPER: This is literally — that is like the title. “You’re never alone. Grab your vibrator, dude.” I’m dying. Okay, so you preferred to be in relationships because you really did not want to actually physically be alone?

BELLA THORNE: I’d never been alone since I was a child. I’d always been — I grew up in a family of four, and my mom being best friends with her growing up, and we’d have sleepovers. We would travel somewhere, sleep in the same bed. I grew up never ever alone.

And then all of a sudden, oh, broke up with this man because, like, yes queen, get rid of him. And then, oh God, I’m alone, I’m sitting in this chair, what am I doing? And it was just the scariest feeling. Being alone was so frightening. And I’m not totally sure for what reason, other than you just didn’t spend that much time doing that.

Now I’m like, oh, I get two days alone? I’m like, let’s go. Eight masks later. Watch me, bitch. And I’m going to watch whatever the f* I want to watch. Okay? I’m going to watch it all night because I’m a binge watcher.

ALEX COOPER: Now you’re more comfortable. Yeah. When you were avoiding being alone, what kind of partners were you attracting? Like, were there any patterns? Do you look back and you’re like, “Oh my God, I kept going for this type of guy”?

BELLA THORNE: The artsy people. They need to stay away. That’s too much. That’s too much. Don’t go back to that time. I’m surprised you didn’t pull out like eight other eras.

ALEX COOPER: Oh yeah, when you started, I was like — I’m like, what is this pap shot on the curb?

BELLA THORNE: Oh my God.

ALEX COOPER: No, okay, artsy.

BELLA THORNE: And do you mean my house at one point was filled with just actual trash bags and literal cardboard? Cardboard from — why? Places on the street, just like people left their cardboard out, you know, they were moving and they got rid of it, and like, cut up and then painted on. Like, I dated a lot of artists.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, you mean not even literal? Because we know musicians. You mean —

BELLA THORNE: I mean literal artist. Art, paint, paintbrush and trash bags and cardboard and anything else you could paint. And I went through that era of my life too. I love painting. So that was like a point I was like, oh my God, look at them, and they don’t give a f*. Like, that’s amazing. Like, I love just being like, I’m going to paint on this thing. I see a wall, I’m going to paint on it. I see this thing, I’m going to paint on it. Like, what a beautiful way to live life. That’s how I was thinking, and I still can agree.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, yeah, a little balanced.

BELLA THORNE: I just painted my dresser.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, okay, what color?

BELLA THORNE: Baby blue from dark brown. Baby blue and with red flowers. Cute.

ALEX COOPER: But maybe like not your whole house is what you’re saying, and maybe like not the cardboard.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, the cardboard trash— I mean actual trash, people’s, other people’s trash that is now in my home. You can only imagine what else is in other people’s trash in my home. And it’s painted on now. They keep painting on it, so they keep putting it there, and I’m not going to throw someone else’s artwork away.

Walking Out on Dates and Relationship Red Flags

ALEX COOPER: How did you realize that these relationships maybe weren’t the best for you?

BELLA THORNE: Oh, seeing how people treated me during that time is what made me think I needed to get away.

ALEX COOPER: It wasn’t the cardboard.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, it wasn’t the cardboard. Now I go, girl, you put up a lot of shit. I am that person though in a relationship. I’m like, yeah, whatever, f yeah, you want to do some shit, f yeah, let’s do it. And then until you start doing some shit you’re not supposed to do, start treating me disrespectfully, start knickknacking, poking— you start that, oh, we’re going to see that cardboard in the trash. We’re going to hear about that art now. And I don’t know if it’s the Libra in me, you do not want to come over here, man.

ALEX COOPER: This is a good segue. This is a good segue because I want to play a dating game with you. I’m going to give you just a quick scenario or just a situation, a topic, and any story that comes to mind, just quickly tell us. Okay, have you ever walked out on a date?

BELLA THORNE: Yes, walked out of the car. He picked me up and he put his arm like that to open the car door, which was offensive for obvious reasons. And so then when I checked him on it, he was like, “Oh, what, you expect too much? You expect too much.” And I was like, “You think that opening the door and getting out, walking your merry little ass 2 feet on over to my side to open my door is expecting too much? Then we should stop right here because you will never— we are actually bad for each other. You have no idea what’s coming your way.” And so I got out of the car.

ALEX COOPER: He did the lean and the little push open.

BELLA THORNE: You said, sorry, you’re not getting any pussy. You’re not getting nothing. You literally are getting trashed.

ALEX COOPER: And here’s a f*ing cardboard piece of shit.

BELLA THORNE: Wait, I got out in the middle. As soon as we got to the stoplight and it turned red, f*ing got my ass out of there.

ALEX COOPER: And he was like, “What are you doing? What are you doing?”

BELLA THORNE: And it’s going to turn yellow soon. He’s trying to get out of his side as I’m walking my happy little ass back home. I was like, no, literally— you expectation— oh, I expect a lot.

ALEX COOPER: I got ready for you. Are we—

BELLA THORNE: This is showing up on your date and you’re not going to open the door? Oh, you have no idea what’s coming later. Wow.

The Ick, Unexpected Hookups, and Catching a Cheater

ALEX COOPER: Okay, that’s amazing. What is the worst time someone has given you the ick?

BELLA THORNE: Oh my God, I dated somebody that on a plane told me that they should have straight parades. Yep, you heard me.

ALEX COOPER: Wait, no, I didn’t. I didn’t hear you.

BELLA THORNE: Rewind. I dated somebody that said on a plane that they should have straight parades, that straight people are allowed to have straight parades. I don’t know why he had to say it.

ALEX COOPER: Pilot, can we drop this bitch off? Can we?

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, he’s in the exit seat. Bye, bitch. And I don’t know if he was just trying to get a reaction out of me. He just wanted to see me offended. He wanted to see me get riled up. He wanted to get under my skin. Oh, it worked. It really worked.

ALEX COOPER: I’m going this way when we get out. I don’t care where you’re going.

BELLA THORNE: I didn’t see him.

ALEX COOPER: That is—

BELLA THORNE: Then he said, oh, he’s joking.

ALEX COOPER: Shut up. Okay, shut up.

BELLA THORNE: Why would you even joke? You think that’s fing funny? Because I don’t think it’s fing funny.

ALEX COOPER: It’s not funny at all. That’s disgusting. What is the most unexpected place that you’ve hooked up with someone?

BELLA THORNE: My publicist back there is like, “No, Bella,” she just starts saying prayers. I hooked up with someone outside of my house in the front yard when I was throwing a party.

ALEX COOPER: You just made that seem like it was like drink or tell the story. Were other people around?

BELLA THORNE: Okay, people were walking indoors to go to the party.

ALEX COOPER: Welcome.

BELLA THORNE: And yeah, it’s a good way to— I was getting greedy on the other side of the car.

ALEX COOPER: I love that for you.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah. And then I realized that there was my camera. I looked up, if you get what I mean. I looked up, you get my point? And then I saw the camera, and then I realized that in my kitchen I have all the screens.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, so everyone in the party is like, “Oh, look at camera X!”

BELLA THORNE: Girl is talented in many more ways than one.

ALEX COOPER: She is flexible. Okay, that’s actually amazing. What is the worst lie that you’ve caught someone in, like in a relationship?

BELLA THORNE: Oh, cheating on me.

ALEX COOPER: How did you find out?

BELLA THORNE: My friend was like, “He’s there too long with this girl.” And I was like, not so worried about it. I like girls, and it was like, if we’re going to kiss her together, like that’s okay. Like, it’s fine. And then I was like, walk her, get her to her Uber. Like, you can’t kiss somebody and then not be a gentleman, you know what I mean? That’s not cute.

So he goes to take her to the Uber, but then he’s taking a while. And my friend Eva’s like, “Do you think he’s fing her?” And I’m like, “What?” And she’s like, “Yeah, do you think he like went downstairs to f her?” And I’m like, “He’s just walking her over, don’t be ridiculous.” She’s like, “I don’t know, I just think he is.”

And then he comes upstairs and she’s like, “Were you f*ing that girl?” So immediately he couldn’t tell me the truth. And then when I went to the hotel room, I realized that my clothing that I had given her because she wanted to go in the pool was on the floor. And I was like, so she came back to change. And he was like, “Well, she didn’t want to take your stuff.” And I was like, “I mean, she could have had the bikini, like, it’s okay.” And I was like, “Oh, so you saw her naked?” And he was like, “No.” And then after me, like a dog with a bone, he’s like, “Oh, she gave me a handjob.” I’m like, right, right.

ALEX COOPER: It’s like it was just a handjob.

BELLA THORNE: Also, that’s just lame. Don’t cheat on me and then be like, “She gave me a handjob.”

ALEX COOPER: Like, you had all hooked up? Not fully?

BELLA THORNE: No, no, no. She was not my type. If we were to kiss a girl together, then that was okay, and we had done that in the past. He met her at my birthday party, and then DM’d her to come meet up with us. So she shows up. I’m like, “Who’s this?” He’s like, “Oh, this is a girl I thought was cute. I thought you would like her.” And I’m like, “Baby, she’s not my type.”

ALEX COOPER: And then he brings her down and he gets a supposed just handjob.

BELLA THORNE: A handjob. And then later on I’m like, I don’t believe it, right? And then he’s finally like, “Oh, she gave him a blowjob.” And I’m like, no, just stop it. And then after we broke off, because then we went through therapy to really work through this— I had to then go shoot a movie with this man right after. I literally had to shoot a movie like 3 days later.

ALEX COOPER: And you’re like, just now before we start the movie, just clarify— you f*ed her. It went from the handjob to the blowjob. You can now just tell me the truth.

BELLA THORNE: I would literally just— just tell me you put it in.

ALEX COOPER: Like, tell me. Trust me on that.

BELLA THORNE: That’d be a lot better. You’re looking a little pussy right now.

ALEX COOPER: I know, I know. I’m actually—

BELLA THORNE: You just got a handjob, you couldn’t give that to yourself?

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, like, you’re not that guy.

BELLA THORNE: You needed to cheat on me with a handjob? Jesus Christ.

ALEX COOPER: Men are so annoying when you catch them and then they’re like, “But it was just—” and then slowly more and more and more comes out and you’re like, I actually would have respected you more if you just admitted it, but now I’m on this long train of lies with you that you don’t even remember. You’re like, what did it first start as? He wouldn’t even remember.

The Cheating Revelation

BELLA THORNE: So then I had to go do a movie, and he’s like, oh, you need to trust me. Give me— I’m going to give you my Instagram password. And I don’t do that. I don’t do the checking the phones. I don’t do the Instagram password stuff. I just think it’s like, if you have to go there, it’s also not good. Plus, you’re always going to find some shit that you don’t want to find. You find one friendly heart and you’re like, yeah, this motherf*er, right? You’re like, this wasn’t meant like that at all.

And so I don’t think that that’s a good breach of trust, but he keeps saying it’s the way to prove to me, right? So then finally I’m like, you know what, all right. And it’s 5 AM and I’m on my way to set. I see these messages and they’re all in a different language. He thinks that I’m not going to translate it, but my assistant— yes. Did you know Google Translate can take photos now?

ALEX COOPER: No.

BELLA THORNE: And there are voice memos. So I’m Google translating with the photos and it’s not looking good in here, not looking good. But then there’s voice memos and they’re speaking very fast in another language. So I asked our server at the time, I’m like, can you translate this for me?

ALEX COOPER: No.

BELLA THORNE: Oh, Bella, he loves you. Oh, he thinks you’re so beautiful. And he just keeps going on and on about how much this man loves me and thinks I’m amazing. You’re so sexy and he wants to— and at some points he does these weird faces like, I’m not going to translate this. So I can only imagine what he’s saying at the time that this server does not want to translate. My fiancé cheating on me. And then I do the full translation. He thinks I’m an idiot. I’m not going to read the other language.

Therapy and the Confession Letter

So then we go through a lot of therapy, like a lot of therapy after that, because I’m like, you know, I’ve committed to this person and obviously I’ve done something wrong here. Which is just not true.

ALEX COOPER: Cheating—

BELLA THORNE: For anybody who’s been cheated on, it’s not true. You haven’t done anything wrong. You haven’t.

ALEX COOPER: And I’m sorry, but ridiculous, the concerted effort to be like, I’m going to get crafty. I’m going to cheat in a different language because maybe she’ll just be so exhausted from this job she won’t have time to actually translate all of this.

BELLA THORNE: And meanwhile, me, my assistant, my hair and makeup artist, the girls, and the server right now are pointing out your cheating ass b. Okay, like, you think I wouldn’t, but I got the girl squad, okay? And this very nice gay Italian man— he will tell you, okay, sir?

ALEX COOPER: Not when you’re trying to tell the Italian man. It gets worse.

BELLA THORNE: No, it does get worse. Yeah, so after the therapy—

ALEX COOPER: Oh my God, from the handjob to here, keep going.

BELLA THORNE: So after the therapy, at one point he said this thing about somebody else who was being cheated on, and I saw it in him— it just all clicked for me, and I was like, oh, you actually don’t feel bad, or there’s no— like, you actually think that this is okay.

And my father cheated on my mom a lot growing up, so I had a lot of past cheater drama. And then when I broke up with his ass, he’s like, well, because you were so honest, I wanted to write you this letter. And in the letter, he just tells me that he was always cheating on me throughout our 4 years. But don’t worry, because he never slept with the same girl more than once. Don’t worry— not with the same girl, not more than once.

ALEX COOPER: Babe, don’t.

BELLA THORNE: He just slept with so many of them, but not more than once. He didn’t have an emotional connection.

ALEX COOPER: The way this man is so in love, he cares so much for you. He’s like, baby— the respect I have, I made sure never to double dip.

BELLA THORNE: Exactly. And like, I respect you so much that I need to tell you this, and that’s the respect I have for our relationship. And then also, I left my Saint Laurent leather jacket at your place, so if you could please mail it to me.

ALEX COOPER: No, no, no, no, Bella. The way that this man was like— but it was just a one and done. Like, they convince themselves, they’re like, it’s not cheating. Because they have these stipulations in their head.

The Open Relationship Double Standard

BELLA THORNE: He convinced himself it wasn’t cheating because we like to get with girls together, and I wanted to be in an open relationship, you motherf*er. And I said that at the opening of us dating. I was like, you live somewhere else. I want to be in an open relationship because I need attention, and I need someone there physically with me. He was like, no, that’s just not going to work. I’ll give you girls, because girls, they mean nothing, right? They mean nothing. So you can get some attention from women, but you can’t have any attention from men. And then meanwhile, you are—

ALEX COOPER: She’s on a tear. She’s on a tear. Oh my God, that is so controlling. That’s the definition of having his cake and eating it too. And you’re just sitting there like, all right, so we don’t want an open relationship even though we have this mutual agreement that if we find someone we’re both down with together, great, but if not, we’re not able to do it without each other? And you’re literally like, huh, bro?

BELLA THORNE: That whole time, the whole—

ALEX COOPER: The translating is good.

BELLA THORNE: The trick— it’s too much.

ALEX COOPER: No, that’s like one of the all-time greats.

BELLA THORNE: Can we put it in a movie?

ALEX COOPER: Put that in a script immediately.

BELLA THORNE: I already did 2 of them.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re like, I have lived this life, Alex. No, that’s wild.

A Breaking Point on Set

BELLA THORNE: It was really hard on that movie. There was a scene where we were making love, and in the scene they put all these photographs of me up on the walls like a gallery— photographs that they had taken of me on that set during that time. And so I’m on the floor and he’s on top of me, and I’m just surrounded by all these versions of me, just staring at myself, and just broke down and could not— after also, after like the 8th take of doing this again and again. This man is in my mouth. I hate him. I’m upset. My body wants him and hates him at the same time. Like, this is someone I love and yet someone I don’t know at all.

And I will never forget the feeling of literally like 8 Bellas just looking at me like, you want to go back to him? Is this what you’re worth? That’s what you see for yourself? Like, this is who you want to be? Are you okay with the way this man treats you? I’ll never forget that feeling. It honestly felt like a horror movie. I was like, is this The Barbarian? What is this?

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, I need this to stop right now because I don’t want this self-reflection right now.

BELLA THORNE: No, exactly.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, save this for a therapy session, but not now, not on camera.

Revenge Porn and Taking Back Control

ALEX COOPER: I feel like you have had some private— I’m sure, like this obviously— but then there’s been a very big public experience that you went through where you were essentially violated to some degree, and you tried to take ownership and control of that situation back. In 2019, you made the decision to leak your own nudes because a hacker was essentially threatening that they were going to do this. Can you just tell the story of what the hell happened? Because I unfortunately think revenge porn is such a common experience for a lot of women, and I would love to hear what your personal experience was with it.

The Blackmail and FBI Investigation

BELLA THORNE: It started off with a text and, oh, hi kitty, something coming. And I was just like, what is this? Ignore it, you know. I’m like, I’m trying to get my number, like, what’s— I don’t— and then again and again. And then a photo of me that I had never posted. And I was like, oof, my brain just like chills. And then he was like, you want more? And so he sent more. And then he kept sending them until he got me in a conversation with him.

And yeah, he kept going with it. I was doing my book tour at the time for The Life of a Wannabe Mogul, and I’m like, I wrote this book because I felt like I was so misunderstood, and I was so— I didn’t know how to express myself. Not only misunderstood, but I was not properly expressing myself. And I felt that kind of one of my last, like, things that I had to do before kind of just giving up on myself was write this book, and then maybe people read it and they understand me a little bit more.

So I write this book, and while I’m f*ing doing this press tour talking about molestation and dark shit, this man is threatening me and won’t stop threatening me. And I had to keep doing these interviews. And I’ll never forget, I’m with my manager Thor, who I’m still with, and he— at that time, I looked at him, I showed him the messages, he read through all of them, and I was just like, I don’t know what to do. Like, it just feels like this is what’s happening again. Like, my power was taken from me then for so many years, and now he has this— he has this thing of me, and he’s— he’s taking it again. It felt like being re-raped.

And also feeling this, like, everything will end if he does this, everything will end for you. Everything, all the shit that you’ve been through, everything you’ve done to get to this point, it’s all going to be blown up and just— it’s gone if he does this. And having someone else have that power and that agency over your own body.

And I love my manager. And at that time, I think he saw me as a person and not as a client, because I don’t think any agent or manager would have been like, “Yeah, all right, you want to do that because you think it’ll make you feel better? Sure, release your own nudes.” And he was like, “Honestly, Bella, what he’s writing you is f*ed up. And with what you’ve been through”— this is my Thor accent— “this is your only way. I don’t have another way for you. I don’t have another option.” And I put him out, and that was horrible.

ALEX COOPER: How did you come up with that idea to release them yourself?

BELLA THORNE: He’s literally saying he’s going to do this, and I don’t keep sending him photos. And I’m like, now he wants me to start sending stuff. And then it wasn’t even about money.

ALEX COOPER: He wanted more photos.

BELLA THORNE: And also about money and photos. And like, “I’m going to keep sending you these videos.” And then he starts sending me other people that I’m friends with, their nudes. Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Oh my God.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah. And he’s like, “You see how powerful I am, how many times I can do this to you over and over.” And I was like, at the end of the day, if I’m going to lose my whole career and everything I’ve worked for, being 20 at that time and working since I was 8, I’m going to just say f* it all and I’m never going to work again and my life’s over because this man’s going to do this. So I’ll just do it again.

It’s kind of— I guess it’s— if you think about it, it’s kind of the way I approach life. You want to say she’s so sexual? Okay, so then I’ll be sexual. Like, you want to do this to me? You want to take this from me? So I’m going to take it instead.

ALEX COOPER: It’s your way of actually reclaiming control.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Like you’re talking about having horrific things happen to you when you were younger. You’re like, I refuse to not be in control of my body again. So let’s do it.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: So you release them online.

BELLA THORNE: Mm-hmm.

ALEX COOPER: And how did you preface it?

Releasing the Photos and the Public Reaction

BELLA THORNE: I just did an honest Twitter post. Yeah. I just kind of said it out as it is and, “You’re not going to keep taking this from me. So here it is.” And I think the worst part of that was people saying, “Well, you did this. You are faking it. You just want to show us your tits. You want us so badly to see your private parts, that’s why you’re doing it. You want it.” And that to me really broke me. That really, really broke me. And there’s definitely a video of me where I’m doing an Instagram story and I’m completely broken and so upset. Understandably, just mad.

And then I get a call one day and it’s the FBI. And they’re like, “Hey, you know, we’ve seen this thing, we think it’s our guy, and can we come over? Can we get all the data? Can we see what this is?” And they came over to my house. So now I have a house full of FBI, which is the craziest thing. I keep looking around like, there’s weed in this house, there’s weed and the FBI are in here. And I keep reminding myself, it’s California, it’s legal. Do they know I have a weed brand? Do they know I own one?

ALEX COOPER: It’s still scary. You’re like, the FBI’s here.

BELLA THORNE: Oh God, there’s marijuana.

ALEX COOPER: It is legal, but still I’m nervous.

BELLA THORNE: No, literally. And yeah, I gave them everything, did work together for quite a bit. And I think it took a year and a half, a little over that. And they got him, and they knew it was him from the writing. So if I had not posted those screenshots, they wouldn’t have caught him. Or maybe they would have caught him later, but they wouldn’t have had that direct source. And that’s how they knew, is because of the screenshots, because it’s his exact writing. They’re like, “This is his MO, it’s the same guy, it has to be.”

And then he kept taking this thing because I love cats and I’m a big cat person, so he kept calling me Kitty and taking this thing from me that I love so much. And I’ve got these cat tattoos, and he would keep poking the kitty thing and, “Kitty, come here, Miss Kitty Kitty, do this for me, Miss Kitty Kitty.” And that was another one of my breaking points, like, you’re not going to fing take something that I love. I rescue cats, and you know what, I’m going to f you. I’m just going to put this out. I’m going to put it out because I have no other choice. That’s what I feel like right now. I’m not letting anybody do this to me again.

ALEX COOPER: That is so crazy that then the internet turned it into you are getting blackmailed and this hacker is coming for you and somehow you are getting slut-shamed and blamed.

On Victim Blaming and Societal Norms

BELLA THORNE: What do we tell women all the time in life. “You were raped that night. Were you wearing a short skirt? So you wanted it. You had a drink that night. Okay, so you wanted it.” It’s always, “You want it.” That is the inherent thing that we grow up with. It is. It’s everywhere. It’s in every book. It’s in fing— at this point, the only thing that doesn’t have it is fing Mother Nature. Literally the only thing that doesn’t have it is the trees and the grass and shit.

It’s everywhere. It’s embedded in every culture, everywhere you look. It’s f*ing— I’m sure it’s embedded in these chairs. I’m sure when they made these chairs, they were like, “Well, we need to make something feminine but not too feminine, okay? And it needs to be soft enough, but it still needs to give a little bit of a man vibe, because she can’t be too feminine if she’s going to have work, right? Because she can’t be both.”

ALEX COOPER: It’s literally in everything. It is horrific to know that somehow you were blamed for it, and yet— you’re right, it’s so expected. Of course. What did that experience, though, kind of teach you about the process of reporting crimes and working to that capacity?

On Coming Forward and Victim Statements

BELLA THORNE: The grace and the bravery that it takes someone is so incredible. Anyone who’s ever had to write a victim statement— I give it up to everyone who has come forward and everyone who hasn’t. Both are incredibly brave in their own right, and that is the truth.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, it’s not easy at all, either one. You’re right? Because it’s like half the time you’re not believed, and then when they’re trying to believe you, there’s so many questions that you’re like, is this even worth it? I don’t want to relive this.

BELLA THORNE: For sure. Putting it into your own words, having to speak it out loud in a room full of— when I was writing this statement and they were explaining to me why it was important, because of the sentencing and for the judge to really hear what this person has taken from you in your life. And you spend so much of your life trying to concentrate on the things that didn’t take from you, and now you have to sit here and publicly speak out those words, what someone has done, what they have taken, who you no longer are because of this person and their actions. And yeah, it’s just, man, there are so many incredibly brave and courageous people.

Reflecting on Growth and Setting Boundaries

ALEX COOPER: It’s so inspiring to hear you, from literally the young girl that I showed in that picture, to then your working experience and essentially surviving that extremely difficult environment, to then getting out into the world after Disney, trying to find your identity, but also wanting to rebel a little bit and be like, I literally didn’t have really a childhood, so I’m going to lean in, I’m going to have fun. I didn’t even know about my bank account, or I didn’t have an ID. Like, I deserve to have a little bit of me time, essentially.

Going through all the relationships that you went through, all the cheaters, all the people, all the artists, all the cardboard, to then finding your now fiancé, going through the online trauma of this experience. It feels like now you’re in this place where you’ve grown so much as an individual. It seems like you’re in this great relationship now. What do you think now, sitting here, are some of the biggest changes that you’ve noticed in yourself as a whole? Like, in reflecting back on everything that we’ve talked about— I’m not as reactive.

BELLA THORNE: I’m definitely not as reactive. I have boundaries. Yeah, I created some of those. It’s crazy, you can create them. They’re there. They may look invisible, but they’re not. I think that’s probably one of my biggest ones, is the boundaries— not having them before and having them now. And creating them for your own is such a— can be such a beautiful and joyous experience. It can also be really sad. And sometimes it’s good to hold space for the versions of yourself that didn’t have that, you know?

ALEX COOPER: That’s such a good point. It’s like you can be proud of yourself now, but you can also have empathy for why it was so hard back then. It’s like doing it for your younger self now. Like having those boundaries, you can now be so proud of yourself. Like, oh my God, everything I went through and how horrific things I had to experience that I shouldn’t have had to experience. Probably also shouldn’t have even had to have boundaries at that age or in that moment. But now you can be proud of yourself for surviving all of that.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And having grown to be so strong for what you went through and what you now demand for yourself.

Reclaiming Your Body and Spring Breakers 2

BELLA THORNE: Yeah, and I think we put so much— like, women, again, you just can’t do it right. And like, your body and all these other things is Jesus, and like, everyone wants to take it from you all the time. And then you’re ostracized for having boundaries, or you’re a bitch for speaking up for yourself. You’re blaming yourself, which is what I’ve done for so much of that part of my life, and being in situations that I didn’t know how to get out of.

I literally didn’t know how to leave other than running out the door physically. And I think over the years I’ve really blamed that version. And at this time when you kind of grow up and you’re like, that wasn’t right though, like, yeah, holding that space for it’s okay that you didn’t know then, it’s okay that you know now.

ALEX COOPER: And I think when you’re that young of a young girl going through— like everyone always says it, like the body keeps score, right? Like, yeah, you can do so much mental work to just try to keep your head above water and to keep working. Like, you’re having to keep working through this trauma, right? You’re having to keep working through people taking advantage of you and your body and all these moments, and you shouldn’t have had to do that, but you were in survival mode.

And so I think it takes— it can take your whole life to just slowly reclaim parts of your body. Even doing therapy for a decade, you can unlock parts and feel like you reclaimed parts, but it’s a never-ending process because that’s something that should always be yours, something that should never be taken advantage of or taken from you.

BELLA THORNE: And as an actor, you’re taught the opposite. As an actor, your body— you learn how to disassociate from your own body because you’re putting— and disassociate from your brain to almost create two parts of the brain. One part of the brain is experiencing this incredibly traumatic thing that I’m trying to act out as well as experience in real time, and then the other part is this protective part. And you can— it’s kind of like watching yourself from the outside in a way.

Think about the scenes where actors have to do, and you’re being raped on camera. You’re doing these really physical, detrimental scenes to your psyche as well as your body. And so you have to disassociate, and then you’re no longer acting, but for some reason you keep having to disassociate from your body throughout life.

And so to reclaim it, as you said, piece by piece back, is really— I used to love to show my skin, and I still love to show skin, but I used to be like, f*, like, nipples or whatever, like, yes. And I realized that I never went through the time to be precious about them, to be precious about yourself, your own body. And I never went through that period. And I feel like I’ve just recently been getting to be precious and to, yeah, to have that.

The Ongoing Battle of Being a Woman

ALEX COOPER: I’m so— it’s really cathartic to hear you say this because I think a lot of women are going to be sitting at home and crying with you because I think the amount of women who have unfortunately, and should never have had to, nor should you have ever had to, been taken advantage of, it’s like you’re reliving it also in moments and microcosms in your life.

As much as you’re hearing, we’re hearing about obviously when this person is going to leak your nudes, or someone makes a comment, or someone’s saying these— that every little thing in life can bring you back to that moment. And so it’s this ongoing battle within yourself as a woman that you have to try to be so f*ing strong and keep going.

BELLA THORNE: It’s ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. Stop making us be so strong.

ALEX COOPER: No, literally.

BELLA THORNE: And be weak.

ALEX COOPER: No, literally.

BELLA THORNE: I’m saying no, women. I know, strong woman. I want to be a weak woman. You know what, how about that? Can I be a weak woman today? Friday would be good. Sunday is a good day to be weak. I’d love to be a weak woman on a Sunday. That’s why, this is ridiculous.

ALEX COOPER: No, I know. That’s why I feel for you right now. I want to reach out and hug you because it’s so— people who, especially men, and who are just so naive to it, it’s like they think there can be an isolated incident. It’s like this carries through to so much of you. It doesn’t define you, but you are just having to work ten times harder in moments to just survive.

And so I just give you so much grace of just like, oh my God, everything you’ve been through. And then sitting here and even you being like, “I have boundaries and I’m more patient now.” Like that is what just happens with time. And it’s horrific that you had to go through any of the things that we’re talking about, but you’re such a survivor in your own right, and it’s really inspiring as a woman to connect with you and talk with you about these themes that are unfortunately so universal.

But you are also a testament to someone who has been able to be basically dragged through the mud, gone through these horrific things, and you’re so intelligent and you’re funny and you’re wise and you’re all these things, and you deserve to have happiness. And so it’s amazing to see that you’re reclaiming that in a way that it’s going to take a lot of time.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And it’s still going to be a lot of work and a lot of therapy, a lot. We’re putting budget, but you’re here. And the young girl who said, “I was maybe not going to be here if I didn’t get out of that house at one point,” you’re still standing. And that’s all on you. No one else is to thank or to give props to— it’s you. You did that. You did that yourself.

BELLA THORNE: Thank you, Alex.

ALEX COOPER: Of course.

BELLA THORNE: Very sweet.

Directing and Starring in Spring Breakers 2

ALEX COOPER: I want to brag more about you, some of your accolades. You’re a director. You did The Incredible, you know, you’re still obviously an actress, but you have transitioned into a director, which is such a feat in itself to be taken seriously, to be talked about, right? In a way that people are going to show up for you and look at you, especially even just as a woman. So congratulations. Obviously, you’ve been referencing your first project. I know you have something big coming. You are directing and starring in Spring Breakers 2, and writing.

BELLA THORNE: And I wrote it.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, how did this opportunity come to be?

BELLA THORNE: The producers watched Color Your Hurt, which is the movie that I just wrapped an early cut of, and they asked me to write something to see if they would like it, and they loved it.

ALEX COOPER: That is writing and directing Spring Breakers 2. No, no, no. That is forever official. Let’s go. That is— first of all, you being in it, I’m already like yes. You directing it? Yes. You writing? Yes. Like that is incredible.

BELLA THORNE: Thank you.

ALEX COOPER: That’s so incredible. Also, because the first Spring Breakers was directed by a man.

BELLA THORNE: Uh-huh.

ALEX COOPER: How do you think the sequel will be different with some female energy?

BELLA THORNE: Some female energy. Oh, the female energy is there, girl, for sure. 2012 was such— which is when the movie came out— was such an exploitative time, and everyone was going through it at that time, like me and Miley and Zendaya and Selena and everybody being comparative. Who was going to be that next bad girl and everything happening. It felt like that was the time too. And in this time, things are different. They are crazy. There’s a lot of craziness. There’s a lot of litness. There’s so much litness in this movie.

ALEX COOPER: I didn’t— Bella. No, no, no, the maniacal laugh. I’m like, Spring Breakers 2 and Bella Thorne, I’m like, oh my God. Is there anything you can tease or anything you want to just kind of set the groundwork so people have a little something to chew on?

BELLA THORNE: We’re working with the original team, is back, so we’re really excited about that. I don’t want to get in trouble.

ALEX COOPER: I know, I know, I don’t want to get in trouble.

BELLA THORNE: But what I can say is— it is so litty, litty McTitties. I mean, from start to finish, it’s lit as f*. We are having fun. If you wanted to go to the theater and have fun, you going to have fun with this movie, that’s for sure. Yeah, it’s balls to the wall. That’s what everyone says when they read the script— balls to the wall.

ALEX COOPER: Can you say if there’s— is there anyone from the original in it or no? Okay, we’re not going to say anything. We will be sat, we will be ready. We are so f*ing ready, Bella. Before you go, because I know this has been—

BELLA THORNE: Also, also, I went—

ALEX COOPER: What?

BELLA THORNE: When Spring Breakers came out, I begged my manager to let me go to the premiere because he had worked on the first one. So when Spring Breakers came out, I was at that premiere.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, that’s really—

BELLA THORNE: So you can do the age math as well. I was there and I begged.

ALEX COOPER: I begged.

BELLA THORNE: That’s why I love my manager.

ALEX COOPER: That’s wild. And now you’re here. You went to the premiere as a fan and now—

BELLA THORNE: And the after party. And now I wanted to see the girls writing, directing, and starring.

ALEX COOPER: That’s kind of just— that feels right. Right. That feels right for the girls, right? Yep. You can do anything.

BELLA THORNE: Oh my God, that was such a cultural moment in time and just crazy. Everyone just becoming a woman and questioning being a woman and what that’s going to look like for the rest of your life. And you know, then you have these girls doing these things in this movie and it was just on the big screen. It was big screen, that movie. That was a big screen movie.

ALEX COOPER: It was.

BELLA THORNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And this will be too. Yeah. And in front and behind it.

BELLA THORNE: Yes, yes, power to you.

ALEX COOPER: That’s actually f*ing incredible. Seriously, congrats.

BELLA THORNE: Thank you.

A Happier Bella and Closing Words

ALEX COOPER: Okay, Bella, of everything you’ve accomplished, what are you hoping for this new era for yourself? Like, what can we expect? I know obviously we’ve got the projects, but like, what else? What can we expect?

BELLA THORNE: A happier Bella, hopefully. Really, I feel happier so far getting to do something that I love, like directing, and getting to concentrate on production and getting further into all sides of the art in that way instead of just— I love acting and I love finding projects that I want to act in. Like, that’s really important. And yeah, I hope I get to really enjoy continuing on this journey. Yeah, yeah, you deserve it. Thank you.

ALEX COOPER: I could talk to you forever. That was such an incredible conversation. I feel like we went in so many different directions, and thank you so much for going there with me. I love talking to smart, interesting women, and I knew we would have such a connection and a great conversation, but I couldn’t have imagined the amount of themes. I feel like so many women are going to be like, “Oh my God, thank you, thank you, thank you.” And that’s all to you today. So thank you for opening up. Thank you. We wouldn’t have had this conversation and the depth that you brought was really inspiring. So thank you for coming on Call Her Daddy, Queen.

BELLA THORNE: No, thank you for having me.

ALEX COOPER: Amazing.

BELLA THORNE: To all the people, to all the women and everybody that hears themselves and sees themselves in this episode. I love you and you’re beautiful.

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