TRIGGERnometry: w/ Comedian Mark Normand (Transcript)

I haven’t noticed that, but some people have been talking about it.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, Ellen went to the UK. I think her neighbors hate her and pushed her out. So she might be back here.

On Ellen DeGeneres

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah. Can you imagine being one of the most dislikable people in LA, which is kind of a tough competition to win?

MARK NORMAND: She’s a— you are what you eat. All right, but I know a guy who worked for her and he was like, it was rough. So that’s all real.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Really? What was rough?

MARK NORMAND: Working for her. Like she was that mean?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I thought that was another one of them.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah. But you know, you’ve got to respect the progress of— she was canceled in the ’90s for being gay, and then she kind of came back and we all supported her. We cleaned up our act, and then she got canceled for being a c*. That’s progress, you know? Hey, we’re not mad about you being gay anymore, we’re mad about you being mean. So that’s something.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I like— Neil Brennan’s got a great joke. He’s like, “People ask me if she’s nice, Ellen.”

MARK NORMAND: “When have you ever met a nice lesbian?” Well, lesbians are good too, because, you know, they say you become what you hate, and they all look like men after a while. So I’m like, you’ve become what you— you got the short hair, the boots, the flannel. Yeah, you hate us and now you look like us.

On the Royal Family

FRANCIS FOSTER: It’s a good point. And then, so she came and then she’s back. So what were your impressions of the UK? Did you like it? Are you going to move to the UK, Mark?

MARK NORMAND: Well, I stayed in Westminster. No, I’ll never move there, but I stayed in Westminster. Is that right? Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Beautiful.

MARK NORMAND: I love the pub culture. It was like one nice day of the whole year. I just got to see it, and that area is great, but I didn’t really branch out.

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, you didn’t branch out. And what do you think of our royal family?

MARK NORMAND: Ah, I think it’s all silly, you know. What are you going to do? I mean, look, every— I went to Sweden. They got weirder politics than you guys. They got a king and a queen and a prince, and they’re all f*ing each other, and the inbreeding and the—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, we kind of have that as well.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, I guess you’re right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: But then we’ve got Andrew, who’s been— you know, he’s a good friend of Epstein.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, that’s right, I forgot about that. But you arrested him?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, for leaking secrets, not for the pedophilia.

MARK NORMAND: Oh really?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Alleged pedophilia.

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, that’s like an OJ thing. He didn’t get arrested for murder, he got arrested for selling jerseys. Yeah, but that’s true. And then you got Harry, he’s a real cuck, right, with the Markle thing. Yeah, I’m trying to remember everything. And then I like the other guy, the bald guy seems cool. William?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh yeah, he is bald now. Yes, in my head he’s still got hair.

MARK NORMAND: No, he’s full. He seems all right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, he does.

MARK NORMAND: But one thing I like about Harry is he wore— he did a— for Halloween he dressed as a Nazi, which I thought was fun.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I mean, he did at the time as well.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, but I mean, that’s what I did when I was a kid. Like, to me that was normal. That’s like a kid joke.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, it is a kid joke. It’s just the problem is those jokes, when you did them back in 2002, everyone’s like, that’s really funny.

MARK NORMAND: That’s true.

FRANCIS FOSTER: The key is not to have photographic evidence, Mark.

On Growing Up Before Social Media

MARK NORMAND: Yes, dude, I’m lucky. I’m working on a whole chunk about this in my act, about how I had a disposable camera as a kid. That was it. And you’d give it to a guy at Walgreens and he would be in a darkroom like, “What the f*?” But that was the extent of it. Now it’s on the internet. Now everything is filmed.

They say kids at a school dance aren’t dancing, because they’re too scared to get filmed and be called cringe. So kids can’t cut loose. No wonder they’re shooting up schools. They’re the pent-up—

FRANCIS FOSTER: They’re pent up, they’re frustrated, they’re angry.

Back to Epstein

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I’m surprised you didn’t say more about Epstein. I thought you’d have a whole bit.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, sorry, sorry.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, I set him up there.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, my fault, my fault.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Tell us about Epstein. How did you know him?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, well, I was in the files. Were you?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Were you?

MARK NORMAND: He came to a comedy show and I was there. I was on the show, apparently. So he was like, “Hey, I saw a show with this guy, David Tell, Rachel Feinstein, Mark Norrin, whatever.” So Jews. Yeah, yeah, not me, but you look like you could be.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I get that a lot.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I’m circumcised and annoying, so that’s something. But yeah, you know who looks pretty good with Epstein is Leonardo DiCaprio, because he was always getting shit for the young girls, but now he’s like, “I was dating 24-year-olds.” Ew. That’s like a MILF compared to Epstein.

But yeah, Epstein, crazy times. Nobody gets in trouble. I wish I was on the list because then I can’t get arrested. Bill Clinton’s reminiscing, and we got him dead to rights. We got the photos and the hot tub and everything. And yeah, no punishment.

FRANCIS FOSTER: No pun intended. That is true. So what did Epstein say about the show? Did he say you smashed it?

MARK NORMAND: He gave me a card and he said, “Come on my jet.” And I was busy, I couldn’t do it, but I think we all would’ve gone.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Right?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: It’s a private jet to an island with Bill Clinton and Stephen Hawking. Don’t forget to work the balls. Okay, sorry. That might be the horniest paraplegic out there. Can you think of a different one? I mean, he might have a crippling addiction.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, the question is, do we have any evidence that he volunteered to go? Did someone just take him against his will?

Stephen Hawking, Bill Cosby, and the Virtue Signaling Shift

MARK NORMAND: Ooh, that’s a good point. I saw some on Black Twitter, which I highly recommend, very funny. Somebody tweeted, “If this guy raped you, that’s on you,” which I wouldn’t have the balls to write, but that was pretty funny.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, I was at a party. This is— I’ve never told this story. Around about 2003.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wait, are you on the Epstein list?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I am on the Epstein list. Oh yeah, I am, I am, I am. Let’s hear it.

FRANCIS FOSTER: How do you think we got funding to do this?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, no, we really are funded by Mossad. Anyway, carry on.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Exactly. No. I was at a party and there was a girl there who was a stripper, and I started talking to her, and she was working at Spearmint Rhino.

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, look, that’s a big one.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Exactly. It’s one of the best ones. It’s a good one.

MARK NORMAND: Big strip club.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Big strip club. And I asked her, I went, “Oh, so who’s the biggest celebrity that you’ve done a lap dance for?” And I thought she was going to say Charlie Sheen. I thought she was going to say, you know, maybe like a conservative politician, doing a little bit of cokey cokey with it and then doing all the stuff. No, she said Stephen Hawking.

MARK NORMAND: Wow, how about that legend?

FRANCIS FOSTER: And I asked her what it was like, and she said, “Gentleman.”

MARK NORMAND: No way. Well, he literally can’t move, he can’t get a boner or touch her, so I don’t know if he’s a gentleman or more if he’s just confined to a wheelchair.

FRANCIS FOSTER: But he was just a lover of the game.

MARK NORMAND: I guess so.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, I never thought about this and never intended to, but if he couldn’t get a boner, what was the point of all of this?

MARK NORMAND: Well, I think he’s still got eyes and he probably just wants to be wanted. When you look like that, you’re all f*ed up. I think a girl dancing on you is pretty exciting. Like, “Oh, she’s not horrified by me.” That’s a win.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, that’s very astute, but very sad and not funny.

MARK NORMAND: Well, you know what it’s kind of like? You ever get a nice message from a girl who’s like, “I’d love to f* you,” or whatever, and you’re like, no. Oh yeah, me neither. But when you’re talking to a girl and you’re like, “I think I’m in,” sometimes that’s better than the actual sex, because the sex will only let her down, or you’ll get an STD, or you’ll get in trouble, whatever. But the knowing that she would is kind of the win.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yes, Billy?

MARK NORMAND: People with motor neuron disease can get boners, so he could get a boner.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: He could?

MARK NORMAND: Oh, all right. So maybe he’s getting— remember when you were 18, you get a lap dance and you jizz in your basketball shorts? Me neither, but I think he’s doing that. Look at that. He’s a big nerd. So I think he got to live the second half as a wild man.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know, here’s the thing though.

MARK NORMAND: I think he’s going to hell anyway.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: That man was a great man, not just for his physics, but also, you know, that he got divorced and then married the nurse. I mean, that guy had game.

MARK NORMAND: He had game.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: He had real game.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Well, he was a brilliant guy. So he could type some smooth sh.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, I don’t know why we’re defending an alleged pedophile here, but that—

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, but if you think about it, that is being— having a—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Sorry to interrupt, but actually that is what we do on the show every time. Last time we were here, you were defending Bill Cosby.

MARK NORMAND: I just say he’s a good comic.

FRANCIS FOSTER: That’s why I ended the show, tried to end the show half an hour early. I was like, “I’m not going to tolerate this.”

KONSTANTIN KISIN: No, but then I think you fact-checked us and we found out he actually was found not guilty, Bill Cosby, wasn’t he? Or was that you?

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, no, it was me. I said that he— no, no, he’s not guilty. He’s been found innocent on all charges.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: He’s been found not guilty.

MARK NORMAND: JMO, what do you got here? Yeah, Bill Cosby was found guilty of aggravated indecent assault in 2018, but his conviction was overturned in 2021.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Oh, there you go.

MARK NORMAND: Who overturned that?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned his conviction.

MARK NORMAND: Good to know.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: He’s not guilty.

FRANCIS FOSTER: He’s not guilty. An innocent man walked free.

MARK NORMAND: Wow.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Just like Stephen Hawking.

MARK NORMAND: Jimmy, I hope he didn’t walk free. He rolled free.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I believe we are.

MARK NORMAND: And the guy can’t drive, but he loves trafficking. All right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: If you normally tune in for the political analysis, I’m sorry, but this is so much better.

Iran, Diversity, and the Allah Thing

MARK NORMAND: I’m an idiot. I don’t know much, like with Iran. I want to know, but I just gloss over.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You gloss over?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, just too many big words and too much news.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: What about the gay ayatollah?

MARK NORMAND: Well, that’s fun. Is he going to throw himself off his own roof? Somebody had a good post. They said he’s going to get to the 72 virgins and be like, “Ah, it’s all pussy.” So that sucks. But yeah, the ayatollahs, they just— it feels like they just pull a lever and another guy slides in who looks exactly like the last one. There’s no diversity.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I know, and I think that’s why they’re losing the war, because it’s not their strength, right?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Diversity is our strength, and they just don’t have enough. They need some trans shooters in there. They know how to fight.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, that’s true. But also, you’ve got to hand it to them because they’re really committed to the Allah thing. They keep saying Allah will protect me, and then they blow up. Like, imagine you’re banging a hooker with no condom and you’re like, “Allah’s got me.” The balls that takes. They really believe it.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: AIDS-infested balls.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, crazy over there. No protest about it. Strange. You don’t see any protests about Iran killing each other. Where’s all the protests? Where’s the colleges?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s an interesting point.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, it is an interesting point, isn’t it? Like, you see the occasional one, but even the lefties are like, “Dude, these guys are crazy. I’m not going to—”

MARK NORMAND: Is that what it is? I thought it was a brown on brown thing.

FRANCIS FOSTER: How’d you mean a brown on brown thing?

MARK NORMAND: Well, if it’s brown on brown, nobody knows what side to take. It’s kind of like, statistically, a lot of black people shoot each other in America, but no one ever talks about those lives mattering. So you’re like, “I thought we cared about the lives.” No, no. Oh, okay.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: We care about the virtue signaling.

Doja Cat, Timothée Chalamet, and Admitting You Were Wrong

MARK NORMAND: I guess so. Did you see Doja Cat? Pull this up, Fatty. All right, so Timothée Chalamet is in all kinds of hot water for shting on the ballet and the opera, which he’s not wrong— nobody likes it. It’s like 0.3% of people watch the opera. But he got a ton of sh for it from Doja Cat, who I don’t even know who that is, but apparently she’s a big hot actress, pop star, or something, and she wrote a bunch of stuff on, you know, “He sucks, he’s out of touch, he sucks.” And then 2 days later she retracted and goes, “I gotta be honest, I don’t even care about the opera, I was just virtue signaling.” Wow, that’s a win. No one’s ever done that. That’s a shift, I think, in culture.

FRANCIS FOSTER: It’s—

MARK NORMAND: Tell me when you find it. Somebody said no one cares about the opera anymore. No, no, that we have. I’m talking about Doja Cat.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Doja Cat. We’re so old.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I know, we’re old. Not only—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, you’re not old. You’re clearly on top of this sh.

MARK NORMAND: Well, I just saw it on Twitter and it blew my mind, but I don’t know any of her music.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Not only had I never heard of her songs, I didn’t even know who she is. I only, a few months ago, because of your people going mental, found out who Bad Bunny is.

MARK NORMAND: The Bad Bunny thing was wild. I mean, I think the alternative halftime show is super gay. It’s like a weird vegetarian option at a dinner. And Kid Rock hasn’t had a hit in 30 years. Can we get a new conservative face for the music? But whatever.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Are there any conservative musicians?

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, I think Morgan Wallen. There’s a bunch of country guys, I think. But I’m sure there’s some other ones who are secretive conservative. It’s like being gay. But yeah, so did you find it? She said people do give a f* about these art forms and then retracted it saying that she didn’t really know. She was just trying to look like a hero. Yeah, that’s big. That’s a big sign.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I mean, that is kind of the end, isn’t it? Where you just go, “Ah, I was just doing it for the clout,” as the kids say.

MARK NORMAND: Exactly. But it’s just nice because we all kind of know that. But all I want is some acknowledgement in this world, and no one acknowledges anything. They never go back and go, “Oh, maybe Palestine was a little angry.” They just keep moving. No one ever goes back and says, “Maybe we shouldn’t have opened the border. Oh, maybe COVID— maybe we did handle that crazy.” They never go back and go, “That was bad.” So when someone does it, I’m like, I’m in the back of a Waymo jerking off.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I mean, if you’re going to do it in any car, it might as well be a Waymo.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, no, victimless crime.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Exactly.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, the Mexican guy was going to clean it later. Boy, I feel like you guys are two gays and you’re auditioning for the threesome, the new guy to come in.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I feel like that is exactly what this is for. Yes, except it’s on camera.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh boy, with a big audience.

MARK NORMAND: Yes, I’m not going to do it.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Talking about auditioning in front of camera and being gay, what did you make of the Oscars?

The Oscars, Hollywood, and Anti-Fun Culture

MARK NORMAND: Ah, well, I think Conan had a good time. He had a good opening, I thought. I don’t know, did you read what you need to get an Oscar now? They put out the requirements and it’s like, you have to have so many of this and the lead has to be that and this guy has to be disabled and he has to be gay and she has to be whatever. And you’re like, what are we doing? It’s a movie.

We have all these great movies. Everybody talks about movies now suck. And movies in the ’70s were amazing because you could just let people have art. What if standup did that? Hey, you have to have 6 jokes about how whitey sucks and how Jews are bad or whatever. You can’t put restrictions on this shit.

In the old days, Thomas Edison started a movie company in Edison, New Jersey. And that was like the movie company. And then he made all these rules. So the Jews said, we’re going to start our own movie shit in Hollywood. And that’s what became the big movie producers, movie studios. I think it’s going to happen again. See what I’m saying? If you keep implementing all these rules and making people have these regulations for art, I think people are going to make their own shit. That’s kind of what the internet is. You got your Tonight Shows and whatever, and then you got this.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Right. You know what though, we’d like to talk shit about it, but I was watching a John Oliver clip. Well, I wasn’t watching it, in my defense. It came up on my YouTube. That still crushes. I mean, it gets like millions of views online.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah. But he’s very good at what he does. I think they’re doing it now for the views online.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, they are.

MARK NORMAND: I just did Seth Meyers yesterday and he’s a great guy. Thanks for having me. But there’s like a guy standing around, a lady doing nothing, and you’re like, this is all wasted money. It’s crazy when you go to studios now and you’re like, we could shoot half of this on our iPhone. If I did one of these on the toilet, hey folks, check me out at the Chattanooga Dick Jizz House. I think that would do better than all these grips and roadies and gaffers and all this. They’re all on the union diet. It’s a lot of money.

FRANCIS FOSTER: It totally is. And as well, I kind of don’t take any pleasure in the fact that it’s dying. I was watching the Oscars. We were at the Comedy Center the other night, and they had the Oscars on. And I was watching it and I was going, I used to love this.

MARK NORMAND: Me too. I never missed it.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah. Because what would happen is you would see these movies, you go, oh, I haven’t seen that movie. Oh, I want to see that documentary, or that’s meant to be great, or whatever it may be. It was a way to find more movies, and also movies that weren’t mainstream. But now I was like, meh.

The ’90s Were the Best Decade

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, same. It’s become agenda-driven. It feels political, and you just want to go, ah, I’m just trying to have fun. Before it was like, oh, she’s hot, that’s a great movie, that was a funny thing, he’s a rapist. Sure, she’s hot. Yeah, he’s also a rapist. Yeah, he’s a pedo. But you know, back in the day you had Billy Crystal coming out on a horse, funny stuff, and now it just feels so box-checky.

And look, I’m all about being diverse. We all grew up with Friday, Boyz n the Hood, Menace to Society, all great movies, but it just felt like a movie. It didn’t feel like, oh, we have to have this here.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: We talk about this all the time. The ’90s were literally the best decade in human history.

MARK NORMAND: And now I wonder, are we just old boomer queefs, or is that true?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I think both.

MARK NORMAND: Okay.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I think we are old, but also objectively, no one has presented me with evidence that denies the claim, right?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Because let’s be honest, the 2000s were not better. No, because you get 9/11 and then financial crisis. Sure, everything goes to— yeah, 2010s.

MARK NORMAND: Then the phone kicks up, social media, phones.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And now 2020s, look at it, wars everywhere.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, and we have this thing now, it’s in the air — anti-fun. I just feel like things are anti— the US wins the hockey thing, men and women both win. Yeah, but the women didn’t get enough love, and the men— and you’re like, how do we take the fun out of this?

FRANCIS FOSTER: We—

MARK NORMAND: Two teams for the US won the hockey. That’s incredible. We should be high-fiving and getting drunk. But instead we had to be like, well, they took a call with Trump and they laughed, and we don’t like when people laugh at Trump. And you’re like, all right, how did you make this a bummer? So we have this weird urge to just f* ruin everything. Anti-fun comes in.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: People like to shit on things.

MARK NORMAND: I guess so.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: They really like to shit. And we were talking before we started, anytime you open your phone now, if you post anything—

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: The comments are just like everyone’s being a c* of different varieties.

MARK NORMAND: And immediately, straight away. Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Unrelated to what you post.

MARK NORMAND: It’s crazy. I hate it. One battle after another. I enjoyed the movie. I like Paul Thomas Anderson. I thought it was a good movie. But the right and the left are both mad at it, and I’m loving it because the right is like, this movie’s too woke, and it’s obviously about this and about that, and blah blah blah. And then the left is like, he used a Black woman to win an Oscar and he denigrated her and all. And you’re like, look at this, you’re ruining your own life and my life. Enough.

Go to the movies, have some popcorn, then go home and try to your wife and get turned down. That’s life. It’s just crazy how we can find— it’s almost impressive how we can find a way to be mad about everything. Someone’s watching this mad.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, they’ll be in the comments.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, it’s just 3 retards around a table trying to get laid, you know.

FRANCIS FOSTER: With who?

MARK NORMAND: Wow, this feels like you guys are auditioning me for the—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: You already said that, but you’re married, right?

MARK NORMAND: Married guy with a 1-year-old.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: With a 1-year-old. No wonder he’s so horny.

MARK NORMAND: But we got the C-section. That was her call. So we went in and I got to tell you, the whole thing lasted 12 minutes. It was incredible. Get the C-section.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Really?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: 12 minutes.

MARK NORMAND: 12 in and out. They drugged her, slit her open, opened her up like a Tatooine. Is it Tatooine? One of those things in Empire Strikes Back. Get on it, Nicholas. And opened her up, pulled that piece of shit out. He was black. We were all upset. They hit it with a Waterpik and hosed it down, and then I took it home and that was it.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: So you got a black kid now?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, huge hog. He’s sagging his diaper. He’s walking across the street slowly.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Nice kid.

MARK NORMAND: Good kid. Oh yeah.

British Culture, Class, and Slavery

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Is that a thing, that black people walk across the street slowly? I’ve never—

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, that’s a thing here, right? Yeah. You don’t have that?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Do we?

MARK NORMAND: No, not really.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, no, that’s not one of our stereotypes.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, it’s all culture. African Black people, I notice, and American Black people really butt heads. Oh yeah, just like, you’re a n-word, and they’re like, well, you’re a dumb African, and ooga booga, and they don’t get along.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Oh yeah, you get that in a different way in the UK where you get the first and second generation Caribbeans against the Africans.

MARK NORMAND: Oh really?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, they don’t like each other and they kind of butt heads about that.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Please don’t do any quotes or the accent.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah. And how come you guys don’t get any slavery backlash? Or do you?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, we do.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, you do?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Okay.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, you were slave. You had slaves.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: We send them here. Yeah, no, we send them here.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Remember when we used to own you?

MARK NORMAND: Oh, that’s right. Well, we broke away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before that— but you had— did you have African slaves or what? Yeah, yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, we send them here. We didn’t really have them in England because we had poor people. They did all the work.

MARK NORMAND: You guys are more classist. Class-based. That’s right. Got it.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: So we let the poor people do all the work and then the African slaves got sent here. But the interesting thing about that is the British Empire is actually the first empire in history to end slavery. But we still get blamed for it, right? Even though Britain actually spent a lot of money forcing other countries, particularly Arab countries, to stop slavery.

MARK NORMAND: Right. Yeah. Why don’t you get any credit for that?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Because you know why we don’t get any credit for that?

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know why? I blame the Americans, and I’m being serious about this. I was giving this some thought. It’s because of Hollywood. We’re always the f*ing bad guys.

MARK NORMAND: Is that right? You got James Bond.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, but that’s the only one. And think about— all right, think about The Lion King. Who played the evil villain?

MARK NORMAND: Oh, Scar was a British accent.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah. “Hello, Simba.”

MARK NORMAND: Well, okay, I’ll give you that. But you also get to be the smart guy.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Smart guy’s always got a British accent.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh yeah, that’s the great thing about having a British accent in America. Everyone thinks you’re about 10 IQ points above where you actually are.

MARK NORMAND: Yes. And in America you are probably. Yeah, your education system is way better than ours. But yeah, you get the smarter. And I think you guys get classier. You just seem classier.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Even if it’s like a garbage man, he’s like, “Hello, governor.” And you’re like, look at that guy. It seems cool.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, one of the things that I always struggle here with in America, she’s kind of blunt.

MARK NORMAND: Are we? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

British vs. American Culture: Earnestness, Sports, and Banter

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, that’s the classy thing, right? You’re more direct, right?

MARK NORMAND: Right. But you guys are more passive-aggressive.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, much more. Okay.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yes.

MARK NORMAND: All right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Because we can’t actually express our feelings honestly.

MARK NORMAND: Got it. That’s why you drink. Yeah, I assume.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Well, where do you get it out? You got to get it out somewhere.

FRANCIS FOSTER: And violence.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, the soccer games or football?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Football.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, those football games are wild. I mean, have you been? I’ve been to a few and just the rage in the audience is crazy. And the chants are all very cruel and mean and aggressive. Even on the tube on the way there, I could feel it. It was just like jizz running through everybody. Then they ran out of the train and ran up the stairs and ran to the stadium. It was heavy.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s intense.

MARK NORMAND: It’s intense. That’s the word.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I used to go to football games and I kind of stopped because of that. I didn’t enjoy it. No, no, I much prefer American sports for that reason. You get fans from different teams sitting next to each other having a good time. I prefer that kind of atmosphere.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I felt like they were going to know I wasn’t into it and I got the hell out of there. Really? Yeah.

Football Chants and British Banter

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know, the thing that I love about British sports is the banter. The songs, the cruel songs.

MARK NORMAND: They were great. It’s like, “I f*ed your wife, your mom’s a fat bitch,” all this stuff.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, but it’s also done with humor.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, they’re more inventive than that usually. That was very American.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, I went to an LA Dodgers game. The chant was, “Let’s go Dodgers, let’s go.”

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I’m like, come on, that’s weak. That is weak. You’re right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: What’s your favorite English football chant?

MARK NORMAND: Now we’re talking.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know, there’s a classic when you play Liverpool — “Stand up if you’ve got a job,” you sing to the Scousers. You know, there’s so many. And then there was a guy — you might not get this because it’s a European reference — there’s a guy who played for Arsenal called Emmanuel, and they used to sing, “He’s blonde, he’s quick, his name’s a penknife flick, Emmanuel, Emmanuel.”

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, that’s clever. Yeah, good stuff.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know, one of my favorites was there’s a player called Gary Neville, and he had a brother called Phil Neville, and Phil Neville was much worse. And all the fans used to sing to him, “You’re just a sh, Phil Neville.”

MARK NORMAND: Is there a guy who’s put on that job who has to figure out the writing, or is it just — it’s cool how it just pops up. Like, who wrote that?

FRANCIS FOSTER: I don’t know.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s kind of organic, I think.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I think so.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, comes up with it.

MARK NORMAND: That’s what’s fun about it.

Sports Fandom and the Trump Hockey Controversy

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Are you a sports fan, Mark?

MARK NORMAND: I go to games, but I don’t really follow it. I’m not one of these fantasy football losers who just keep tally with a spreadsheet and all that. Like, “Oh, they traded Johnson. I got to hit my wife now.” I’m not one of those guys, but I love a hockey game. I love a basketball game. I love a football game, tennis, you name it.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And you mentioned the hockey thing with the male team and the female team won. I didn’t follow it, but I guess people were saying the female team didn’t get enough credit.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, did they have a Jewish person leading it, though? No, because that was the big talking point I heard — like, “Oh, he’s one of them. He’s a good one.”

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah. Well, they never play sports, you know, right? I didn’t know he was Jewish till he bit that gold medal. But I think the thing was the women’s team is very good and they always win. And the men’s team hadn’t won in like 45 years or something crazy. So when the men’s team won, it was like, “Oh my God, we haven’t won in decades.”

So then Trump called the locker room and they put it on speaker. They’re all going nuts with Trump, and people didn’t like that. And he made a joke about the women. He was like, “I guess I gotta have the women at the White House too.” And they all laughed. So the women were like, “You see, no one respects us.” So I get it, but it’s also like, okay, didn’t you already hate Trump? So he’s just doing another thing you hate. Let’s enjoy the win.

Sincerity, Irony, and the Courage to Mean It

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, that’s such a profound point. We can’t enjoy anything anymore. And even I’ve noticed this — even when you like something now, or when the kids like something — I’m going to sound old — it’s always like they’re being ironic. They like something ironically, just like something—

MARK NORMAND: Just like it. It’s a cowardly thing. They’re insincere because sincerity takes a little bit of guts. It’s too vulnerable. I think they’re scared of being vulnerable, so everything’s cringe and dumb and stupid. They don’t have the balls to actually own something.

You see this with these comics. These comics go like, “Mug. I took a drink outta here. It was a mug shot.” And you’re like, why? They’re doing a thing where they’re making fun of standup. And you’re like, oh, you wrote a bad joke and you can’t stand behind it. It takes a lot of guts to actually write a joke and go, “I think this joke is good. Here it is.” But they have to make it corny on purpose. See what I’m saying?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: All right. Yeah. All right. You guys are staring at me. I don’t know what we’re doing.

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, we were listening.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: This is normal behavior.

MARK NORMAND: All right. It’s very interesting.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Not in autism world, but here it’s normal.

MARK NORMAND: Okay.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Look back at us. Can you do that?

MARK NORMAND: Yes. I got an elbow.

American Earnestness vs. British Reserve

FRANCIS FOSTER: But interestingly enough, that’s what I love about Americans. You are more earnest. In Britain, we can’t be earnest. You ask a British person to be earnest — especially middle-class British people — they’ll have like an aneurysm whilst trying to be earnest about something. But Americans — love America.

MARK NORMAND: Hey, thanks. Well, you know, we like you guys too. Not enough to stay there, but we like you. But yeah, you guys are earnest, aren’t you?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Nah.

MARK NORMAND: Oh really?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Nah. Nah.

MARK NORMAND: Okay.

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, no, we’re not. No, we’re not. We can’t.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Next time you’re in Britain, right, go up, talk to any person, say, “Why do you love your country?” You’re going to get some hilarious reactions and none of them are going to be an explanation of why they like their country.

MARK NORMAND: Hmm. Well, that could be like a weird patriotism thing because that’s kind of out right now.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: So are you sure that’s earnest?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, partly, but you could ask them anything, really. Anything that requires an honest answer of admitting how you actually feel about something. Why do you love your wife? They’ll make some kind of deprecating joke.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, you’re right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: No one’s going to be like, “Oh, I love my wife because she’s so sweet and she takes care of me and big boobs,” or whatever it is.

MARK NORMAND: And that’s just a cultural thing, by the way.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I don’t know why I said that — I’m not even into boobs. Are you into boobs?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah. What question is that? See, this is that threesome again. You’re auditioning me. How do we like boobs? You like dicks?

FRANCIS FOSTER: I like dicks.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I just like men, dude.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I like—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I’m not into boobs.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, big boob guy. I like boob and butt. I don’t know why we have to choose one. I like both. I’m bi. Boob and butt. I like a small waist.

Parenthood, Marriage, and Trying for Baby Number Two

KONSTANTIN KISIN: You’re married with a small child, so you denied both. How are you finding parenthood?

MARK NORMAND: I’m loving it. I mean, it’s okay now. I live out in Brooklyn. I got a little money, so that helps. I can get help, and I can go on the road, do comedy, come back with a check. Wife doesn’t hate me. Kid’s cute. Life is good.

My friend had a good point. I was playing with my kid. We were laughing. We’re like wrestling. My wife’s cooking up some bullshit. I had the TV on, and my friend was over. He’s like, “You’re not going to know it now, but these are going to be the good times. Later, you’re going to go, ‘Man, remember that?'” And it hit me.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s true, I think.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: So you want another one?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, me too.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: When have you got it on the way? You already planned the C-section?

MARK NORMAND: That’s a great name for — never mind. I was going to say The View. That’s the C-section.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: That’s a bunch of C’s. Okay, now, well, we want another one, but I keep dropping loads in her, but nothing’s happening. What am I missing?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, a year is not that long. Sometimes it takes a little while, right? Yeah, we’re getting very anatomical here.

MARK NORMAND: Well, the first one — she got the IUD out and it was right ready to go.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Really? Yeah, you’re a fertile man.

MARK NORMAND: I thought I was, but I can’t make number two. I’m having trouble.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, like I say, it can take a while to recover the fertility for the woman.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, is that right?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Is she breastfeeding still?

MARK NORMAND: No, she gave it up.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Did she give it up?

MARK NORMAND: Well, she did a couple months.

FRANCIS FOSTER: It’s like smoking.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, well, why’d she quit?

MARK NORMAND: I think she was just saying it was getting too tough, and she has a job, so she couldn’t really fit tit on the—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: You haven’t retired her?

MARK NORMAND: She wants to work. I would love to retire her, but she likes it, you know. It’s something that — she has her own money, she has purpose, something to do. What about your lady? No job?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Not anymore.

MARK NORMAND: So it’s all baby?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: No, I mean, she does stuff and she will do other stuff, but right now she’s all in on the baby.

MARK NORMAND: Nice.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, and ours is approaching 4 now, so—

MARK NORMAND: Whoa, is that right?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Geez. Yeah, that flew by.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s a good time to potentially have another one.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And you both want another one?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Awesome. Well, it’ll happen then. Yeah, just keep at it.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, keep dropping loads.

MARK NORMAND: That’s the plan.

Relaxing and Letting Go

FRANCIS FOSTER: Do you know what? One of my friends was struggling to have a kid with his wife, and they did all this stuff and all these interventions and nothing worked. And this is a true story, by the way. They then went to a wedding, got absolutely battered. He had a little bit of cheeky, and they were just like, you know, a little bit cheeky. And then he went, you know what? Said to the missus, come on, let’s just have fun.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Bam.

MARK NORMAND: Wow. How about that?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, can I just say this is not medical advice?

MARK NORMAND: IVF, do some cheeky. Wow, see that? I think there’s something to that.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: There is something to that, only in the sense that if you chill out and don’t put any pressure on it, I think A, it’s more enjoyable, and B, more likely to happen.

MARK NORMAND: I think, right? Yeah, I guess you’re right, because I’m now going into it like IDF, you know, hey, we got to drop some bombs, get in, get out. So I should just wear the uniform.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Is there really that much collateral damage going on?

MARK NORMAND: Well, she has a beeper.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Does your wife watch any of the podcast appearances that you do?

MARK NORMAND: No. God, no.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, because I don’t imagine she does.

MARK NORMAND: No, she’s cool. I mean, she’s with me. She knows what the deal is. She gets it. We do all kinds of horrible things at the house. I got Tourette’s. I mean, I’m saying crazy shit and jokes, and I do gay voice. You guys do gay voice at the house?

FRANCIS FOSTER: What’s gay voice?

MARK NORMAND: You open the fridge and you go, “Hello, blueberries.” And it’s no hate to gay, it’s just so fun to do.

Comedy Without Agenda

KONSTANTIN KISIN: It is. That’s the thing that I actually felt we lost. And maybe we’ve won it back a little bit, but there was a time when you could be funny about things without immediately being called hateful for that, right?

MARK NORMAND: Yes, of course. Yeah, those were the days. And that’s what Blazing Saddles was and all that stuff. And we just somehow turned a corner where everything’s hateful. And I’m like, so I just keep doing it. I’m just going to keep being that guy. And you can yell at me and yell at me, but I’m not going to change. And then hopefully it’ll change back.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, you’ve ridden that really well, to be honest.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, thanks.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: You’ve got the Netflix special by the time this comes out. I’m sure it’s absolutely crushing it. Hey, you are the mainstream now.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah. And that’s a real sign of a society in decay. I’m the mainstream.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I think the opposite, actually. I think it’s a sign of society making a comeback.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I just want to have fun, and not everything is a thing. Not everything is activism or an agenda. I’m just trying to— I call my tour Mumbo Jumbo because I’m like, it’s just silly bullshit. There’s no point. There’s no message. I’m not trying to save the world. I’m a comedian.

FRANCIS FOSTER: And that’s so important because one of the great things that comedy does is it gives you a break from life.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wait, he started looking at us now. I feel very uncomfortable. Now you’re doing eye contact. So you need to chill out a little bit.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, it felt a little intense in the beginning. It felt like an interrogation. “Where were you the night of the 15th?”

FRANCIS FOSTER: But it’s getting better.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

Arrest Stories

FRANCIS FOSTER: Is that a memory you’ve got, Mark?

MARK NORMAND: No, no memory. No memory. I was not on any island or anything, but yeah, just never been arrested. Oh, I’ve been arrested. Really? Yeah, I thought we all had.

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, I’ve been questioned by the police but not arrested.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: What for?

FRANCIS FOSTER: So there are some serious stories breaking here. He was on the island and yeah, I looked but I didn’t inhale. No, I was walking with a friend who was Black, and this was in— I’m just that kind of guy. And there was somebody who put a pint glass through the pub window of the pub down the road, and they blamed my friend. Oh, because he was Black. So we got stopped and searched and whatever else, and it was just because he was Black, so they blamed him.

MARK NORMAND: Damn, I thought it was an American thing. No, that happens over there.

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, this was in Essex, and if you know anything about Essex, you’ll be like, okay, that kind of makes sense. And this was in the early noughties, so everybody was like, oh, the black guy did it. We actually had a game we used to play. We used to go to the sports store and he used to walk in and then the security guard would follow him and he would just do laps of the store with the guy behind him.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, that’s fun. Yeah, if you bring a black guy to a convenience store you can steal because they will take up all the attention. Fun fact.

FRANCIS FOSTER: So the decoy— so how did you get—

MARK NORMAND: What decoy? That was his name, Decoy Jones.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Well, so what’s your story? How did you get arrested?

The New Orleans Incident

MARK NORMAND: It’s all booze related. I got pulled over drinking and driving. One time— this is a bad story. I was a real alcoholic. I had a real problem, and I was at a bar in New Orleans called Balcony Bar. And I was— they had tables out there on this giant balcony, and it overlooks Magazine Street, big street in New Orleans. And they have glass ashtrays on all the tables, and I was so drunk I was just whizzing them off like frisbees. And you can hear cars, you know, whatever. So eventually I throw one, and I hear a guy from down there go, “What the f*, dude, I’m going to kill you! What the hell happened?”

And I forget all about it, I’m drunk as hell, and I go down there and the guy’s jumping up and down around his car. He’s like, “Look at this, look at this.” And I see a glass ashtray sitting in a windshield, right in the middle, just sitting there. And he’s like, “I’ll kill whoever did this. That’s my car, my baby,” whatever. And I was so drunk, I was like, “Oh, that was me.”

So he’s like, “I’m going to kill you.” He starts chasing me and he’s gaining on me. This is a big frat guy. He had shorts and a polo shirt and boat shoes. And I’m nervous now. So I start trying to get into cars parked on the sidewalk because I’m so nervous. And I get into a car, it’s his car. I see the ashtray in the window. So now he’s like, “Get out of my f*ing car, I’m going to kill you.” And I’m like, “Hey, back it up, I’m not going anywhere.” And he starts doing the boop boop, boop boop. So the locks are going up all over the car and I keep hitting them down.

Eventually we do this bullshit lap of retards and he goes and gets a cop. The cop comes over, pulls me out of the car. He tells the guy, “Hey, back up. I’m going to arrest this guy, give me some space.” Pulls me out of the car, cuffs me. Guy runs up, hits me. I dropped to my knees, very embarrassing. Cop picks my limp body up and puts me in the cop car. Go to jail, drunk tank. You know about the drunk tank?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Explain.

MARK NORMAND: Drunk tank is, you know, all these idiots go out drinking all night, they do something stupid, fist fight, whatever. They’re not really bad guys, they’re just too drunk to drive or function or whatever. So they just throw them in a drunk tank and you just sober up for like 2 days and then they let you out.

So they threw me in the drunk tank and I was the only white guy in there, and they just throw you in. So I’m shit-faced and I’m in there, I’m the only white guy, everybody’s hanging out, and my phone rings. I had a cell phone on me and it’s just like— and they all were like, “What, you got a phone?” So then they start ganging up on me and they’re going through my pockets and they get the phone, they all call their baby mamas. And it was the ’90s, so I was like, “My minutes, I got minutes.” And then eventually they let me out.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wow.

MARK NORMAND: And I walked home.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: So you’ve never done time though?

MARK NORMAND: No, no, never done time.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wow.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wow, you’re a wild man, Mark.

The Rearview Mirror Incident

MARK NORMAND: Well, we had a crazy time back then. I was a feral child. My parents just said, “Go, get out of the house.” So we used to do a thing where we’d take a Doc Martin, stick it out the car window, and knock rearview mirrors off cars. You guys do that one?

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, there was an equivalent, but yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Okay, so eventually we got caught, and a guy chased us in one of the cars that we knocked the mirror off, and he was like showing us a knife while driving. He had it coming out of the sunroof like, “I’m going to kill you!” And we were like 14-year-olds. We had high school uniforms on.

He eventually got us in a traffic jam, and he came out, he started shaking the car. Big dude, no shirt on because he was in his house just hanging out, shaking the car, and he’s slicing the knife up and down the car. So we’re freaking out, we call the cops on a phone. So the cops come over, see him with a knife doing this to the car, so they arrest him, and we got out of it. Apparently he had a bunch of priors.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: That doesn’t surprise me.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah, big Asian guy with a ponytail.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: How was his driving?

MARK NORMAND: Great driving. He had one of those Lexuses with the hardtop that would go into the trunk, I remember. So it was like a sporty little car. We were in a Jeep.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, I mean, that’s quite an achievement to hold a knife up and drive at the same time.

MARK NORMAND: You could see the ponytail waving in the wind. I mean, this guy was like a Seagal character, defying all the stereotypes. Yeah, yeah, big buff Asian guy.

So we got a court date, we had to go meet him in court because of course he’s pressing charges on us. We stayed up all night making up this horrible story. We’re going to say in court, we’re going to lie under oath. And we get to the courtroom and we’re terrified. We’re in our dumb suits and he didn’t show. And we’re like, “Oh, he didn’t show. What happened?” They go, “He killed a guy in a bar fight two nights ago, so he’s not coming. You’re good.” So we got off.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wow. You were kind of playing with fire a little bit.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, yeah. That was my whole childhood. I’m lucky to be alive.

Growing Up in New Orleans: Drinking Culture and Wild Times

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wow.

MARK NORMAND: Drunk driving, fistfights, you name it. Good times.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I just thought you were a bit of a nerd, Mark.

MARK NORMAND: No, I mean, I guess I am, but you get a little sauce in me, I turn into Popeye. It’s my spinach.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: So you don’t drink anymore, I’m guessing?

MARK NORMAND: No, I’m hungover now, but I don’t drink as much. I mean, before it was like tick-tock to blackout.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Really? Wow, that’s kind of rare. Most people, if they were like that, they have to go all— they have to go down to zero. But you just managed to taper off.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, well, I had some scares like that, and that kind of— and I failed out of college 3 times. I mean, I got mugged 3 times in New York just from being drunk. So I had a lot of wake-up calls, and eventually I was like, all right. And then you start wanting to be a comedian, you want to have a family, you want to have somewhat of a life. So I had to kind of get my s* together.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Because you grew up in New Orleans and it’s a great town, but it’s a wild town, isn’t it?

MARK NORMAND: Lawless. You can drink outside. There’s a million bars and Jazz Fest, Mardi Gras. Like, we get off 2 weeks for Mardi Gras. 2 weeks for parades. What kind of society is that?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Latino society, mate.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I guess so. It’s like Carnaval from Brazil or whatever, but it’s just kids running around drinking at like 11.

FRANCIS FOSTER: And so that must have kind of influenced you in the way that you behave because—

MARK NORMAND: Maybe.

FRANCIS FOSTER: If you grew up in a society or a town like that where everybody’s wild, everybody’s drinking, what are you going to do?

MARK NORMAND: You’re going to be a nerd?

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, you’re going to drink.

MARK NORMAND: Yes, of course. I loved it. I’m an anxiety-fueled weirdo, so that was a nice way to medicate too back then.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Oh yeah, that’s the thing. That’s the thing most people don’t talk enough about. When you have a drink problem, they go, oh my God, it must have been terrible. You’re like, yes, it was. But the early days—

MARK NORMAND: Oh, fantastic. Had a great time. I wish I could remember it.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: This is also not medical advice.

MARK NORMAND: Well, I don’t know. Don’t you find life’s kind of boring without booze or drugs or cheeky or whatever the hell? I mean, you guys are killing it. You’re workaholics, baby.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We like work.

The Playaholic Mentality: Paul McCartney and the Joy of Comedy

MARK NORMAND: Me too. Well, I just watched the Paul McCartney doc. It’s not great. All the Beatles material has been taken, I think, but they squeezed some stuff. But it was about Wings and how he went to s*. The Beatles were over. So then he’s like a nobody who had to try to come back up with Wings and failure and the bad reviews and all that.

But he had one great line. One interviewer says, “You’re a workaholic, huh?” And he goes, “Well, I play music, so I’m really a playaholic. ‘Cause I want to just keep playing.” And that’s how I feel. This is play. Standup is play. Drinking is play. It’s all play.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know, and that’s a great point because sometimes you see standups and they take it so seriously.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

FRANCIS FOSTER: And they’re like, “Yeah, mate, ’cause what we’re doing is we’re pushing back against society and we’re doing this and we’re the free thinkers.” Like, mate, you’re doing jokes.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah. You hope they’re doing jokes. You know, this whole save the world thing, like nobody wants that. Some guy works at a mill all day and he’s like, “All right, I’ll scrape together $18. I’ll go see a comedy show.” And then they’re like, “Racism is bad.” Whoa, what a take! Oh my God, I never put that together. Also, that’s not funny. Tell me how racism is good. Now we got something interesting.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Why is racism good?

MARK NORMAND: Well, I’m not saying it’s good. Somebody’s going to clip that, some f*ing ahole. But it’s good. There’s some perks, I guess.

Comedy, Race, and the Shift in Hollywood

FRANCIS FOSTER: Racism’s funny. Going back to the ’90s scene— I watched Rush Hour. Do you remember Rush Hour?

MARK NORMAND: Oh, Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Hilarious. Hilarious. The amount of Black jokes, Asian jokes, gay jokes, Latino jokes— it was incredible.

MARK NORMAND: He makes him say the N-word in the movie. He makes Jackie Chan say the N-word. He’s like, “I don’t want to do it.” He’s like, “Come on, say it.” And he says it. Really? Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I don’t remember that.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I might have made that part up, but give that a fact check there. He says, “You my N-word, you my N-word.” And he’s like, “Come on, say it.” And he’s like, “All right.” So he says it. And at the end, the whole theater’s laughing.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: You know what I think— everything went to s* is like, okay, you got the Farrelly brothers. I’m a big movie guy. They did Dumb and Dumber, Something About Mary, Me, Myself, and Irene, all these fun comedy movies. Then they made Green Book, which was a movie about a racist white guy who has to drive around a super smart Black guy. And it won the Oscar.

Those goofballs made all those wacky, kooky slapstick comedies that were all hilarious, and then they realized the way the wind was blowing and they said, “Let’s make a movie about a racist guy with a Black guy as the lead who’s a cellist or whatever he was, a trumpet player.” And then they won the Oscar, and then you’re like, okay, fun is out, Dumb and Dumber is out, that is in. And look, it’s a fine movie, but I’m just saying a shift has been made. That was the shift.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know what I hated about those movies above all else? It’s like the white guy was always the bad evil one, the Black guy was always a paragon of virtue. And I’m like, just for once, can the Black guy be a dick? Just like Black people are in real life. You get nice ones, you get dicks, right?

MARK NORMAND: Well, I’m trying to think. There’s got to be some mean Black guys in movies, right?

FRANCIS FOSTER: You get them in the ’90s. Like Menace to Society, for instance, or Boyz n the Hood, which was a great movie, which was actually very nuanced. It’s just the movies now, it’s like the Black person’s a hero and the white guy— it’s like, come on. White people are brilliant.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Instead of fact-checking, he’s on the phone now. Who are you calling? What? And who— what are you reporting us for? Oh, she did say the N-word. Jackie Chan said the N-word.

MARK NORMAND: There we go.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Maybe don’t raise your fist like that.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, sorry, that was horrible. Jackie Chan did— he should be ashamed of himself. He owes us all an apology.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

The Nuremberg Film and Jewish Identity

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Do you know what though, the movies have been terrible for a while, but we watched Nuremberg. Did you watch that?

MARK NORMAND: I have not. With Russell Crowe?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: No, I saw that. Really?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And very funny as well.

MARK NORMAND: Really?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah. Sorry, I talked over his punchline, so he just sounds like he said inspirational and meant it.

MARK NORMAND: That’s a— yeah, just trying to help you out there, mate.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: But yeah, it’s really good and funny.

MARK NORMAND: Okay, funny.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, really funny.

MARK NORMAND: Nuremberg is a bunch of Holocaust stuff. Okay.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, but they have some funny bits that they’ve introduced to take the seriousness off it every now and again. It’s a really good movie.

MARK NORMAND: Well, Jews are funny. Are the Jews funny or the Nazis?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: There’s not that many Jews in there.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, I thought it was all Nazis.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s kind of after the war, so the numbers are down a little bit, Mark. I don’t know how closely you followed it.

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, I think it’s all a hoax. But no, Jews you can still trash, I’ve noticed.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh yeah, that’s kind of popular right now, isn’t it?

MARK NORMAND: Very popular. And they get no victim credits or victim points, right? Which is weird. Yeah, because I thought, hey, we’re all about helping the downtrodden. Well, they’re having a tough go. What do you think that’s about?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, I think it’s because people think Jews have lots of money and power, which isn’t true. A lot of them are poor.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah. I mean, the word ghetto, I think, is a Jewish word.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, maybe.

MARK NORMAND: Okay.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: They didn’t do it like Black people, though.

MARK NORMAND: No, no, no.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Like, if you said “he’s ghetto”—

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You’re not thinking of the Warsaw ghetto, are you?

MARK NORMAND: No, no, no, no, you’re not. That’s a good point.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: I lost it. Sorry.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, we’ll come back to it.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: But well, you were saying something about the Holocaust being a hoax.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, well, come on, 6 million? I see Jews every day. You know what’s weird about Jews? They ask me if I’m Jewish. So I walk through Brooklyn, they’re like, “You Jewish? You Jewish?” I’m like, no, but it’s weird that you don’t know. Like, also, it’s weird to hate Jews when you can’t even tell who’s a Jew, you know what I mean? Like, you hate Black people or Asians. Especially Asians, you can eyeball it. But Jews, you have to be like, what’s your last name? How’s your penis? Where are you from?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: But even that, like, American men are mostly circumcised, right?

MARK NORMAND: It’s going down every day. But yeah, mostly, I’d say.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Well, and why is that?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, why do you cut off—

MARK NORMAND: Well, I think we have a lot of influx of people coming in, and I think there’s a hygienic thing involved. Or some people think it’s wrong.

FRANCIS FOSTER: It’s wrong.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: What, foreskins are wrong?

MARK NORMAND: No, no, cutting it is wrong, right?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, because what I’m asking is like, in other places like Britain, the only people who would be circumcised are people who do it for religious reasons, so Jews and Muslims, right? Whereas here you get other types of Americans who also get circumcised.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think there was a big mutilation movement. It’s circumcision.

FRANCIS FOSTER: All right. Okay.

MARK NORMAND: But are you guys hooded?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yes.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, yes. You got a cap on the toothpaste right now. Wow. Now I can’t stop picturing it.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And you’re not?

MARK NORMAND: No, I’m wide open. I’m at graduation. My hat’s off. Hats off to you. Yeah. My head is out there. It’s like a squirrel coming out of a tree.

Circumcision, Nazis, and Proving You’re Not Jewish

FRANCIS FOSTER: Do you get— as somebody like I get mistaken for being Jewish all the time, you know, have you ever been in a Jewish wedding where people start— I remember once I was at a Jewish wedding and someone goes to me, “Oh, what synagogue do you go to?” And I went, “I don’t.” They went, “What, you don’t go to synagogue? What does your mother say?” I’m like, “I’m Catholic.” And she just refused to accept that I’m Jewish.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, you’re not Jewish.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we refuse to accept that I’m not Jewish. And I guess I’ve forgotten what my point is.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Let’s do what we did last time and just end the show.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah, they want you to be Jewish.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, but I guess my point is, I’ve forgotten. I’ve forgotten. You started.

MARK NORMAND: I tried to get you back.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Circumcision.

MARK NORMAND: Yes. Nuremberg.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yes. I guess my point is, the reason I kind of kept it is the knowledge that, if things go south for the Jews, my real concern is I’m going to get bundled in.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, you think that when the Nazis arrive, they’re going to be like, “Pants down, let us see your penis?” I don’t think that’s going to happen, mate. They’re going to look— take one look at your face.

FRANCIS FOSTER: That’s my concern, genuinely, genuinely, because when the Jew stuff, when the antisemitism starts rising, I kind of feel invested.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, I see. So what you’re saying is when the Nazis do come back, you’ll just drop your pants and be like, “I’m not one of them.”

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, I’m not.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And you’ll start speaking Spanish as well, which annoys me. You should be shot just for that.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah. And they’ll go, “It’s a Venezuelan Jew, get in the van.” But I guess that’s my concern. Because look, you’re pretty much the way there. You kind of look Jewish. You’re a comedian. You’re funny.

MARK NORMAND: New York.

FRANCIS FOSTER: New York.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah. No hood.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Neurotic. Angsty.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, you got it.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I mean, you’ve got the whole set.

MARK NORMAND: I got the whole set. I can throw a ball, though. That’ll be my proof. And they go, “You Jewish?” I’m going to go, “Watch this spiral.” And they’re going to go, “All right, he’s good.” Not a ton of Jewish football players.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, you get some hockey players.

MARK NORMAND: We got one. We got one now, or one or two.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, Beckham’s apparently Jewish.

MARK NORMAND: No, he’s too handsome. No. Yeah, he’s not Jewish.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, he’s come out and he says that he’s got Jewish heritage.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: This is a bad time to be outing yourself like that.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, that’s true.

David Beckham, Billionaires, and Gina Rinehart

FRANCIS FOSTER: I mean, look, he’s ultra successful. He’s made, very rich.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: How many banks does he own?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Argue, you always argue to be one of the biggest football clubs in the world because of Messi now and Inter Miami. Oh, you know, he’s a successful guy.

MARK NORMAND: Is he done? He’s done playing.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Oh yeah, of course, long time ago.

MARK NORMAND: So he’s just set for life? Yeah.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Wow, must be a billionaire at this point, or a billionaire, but in terms of assets, maybe.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: So yeah, is David Beckham a billionaire? Same thing.

MARK NORMAND: His maternal grandfather Jewish. Oh, then he’s not, because on the mother’s side. Yeah, no, wait, what is it? Was his mom’s dad?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Maternal grandfather.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, maternal. You’re right.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: This is like that meeting the Nazis had before the war when they were trying to work out who goes in the camps. He is a quarter Jewish, but he’s down the mother line. No, but yeah, is he a billionaire though?

MARK NORMAND: But I bet if he had his wife’s money— no, because he was having to bail her out because her fashion company was— oh yeah, Spice Money’s over.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: He’s not a billionaire after he married his wife. Yeah, well, you know that super old joke? It’s actually my mom’s favorite joke. Can a woman make her husband a millionaire? Yes, but only if he’s a billionaire.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, that’s good. That’s a great joke. And you hate to be that guy, but all the richest women in America— divorced from billionaires and millionaires.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, right.

MARK NORMAND: Sad to say.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Not true in Australia. You know, the richest person in Australia is a woman. Okay, she actually worked for it.

MARK NORMAND: What’d she do?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: She owns a bunch of like coal and another like big industrial—

MARK NORMAND: Good for her. Lesbian?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Let’s do the eyeball test, Billy. Is she lesbian?

MARK NORMAND: We need a name.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Kind of, you know, that he’s got to go.

MARK NORMAND: Richest woman in Australia, lesbian.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Could be, could be. Are we going to, are we going to, are we going to—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Let’s find out.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, Billy’s sweating at this point.

MARK NORMAND: You really start to appreciate Jamie.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Jamie would have had this done. I mean, Jamie’s working with a computer and not an iPhone, that’s true.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: But you know, Billy’s got 4 fingers up, I don’t know what that means.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh well, can you answer our question though? She’s got 4 children, but could be adopted, could be a surrogate.

MARK NORMAND: Inseminated?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: No.

MARK NORMAND: Okay, there you go. What’s the name? We gotta shout her out.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Gina Rinehart.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Gina!

MARK NORMAND: Now some guy’s going to marry her and divorce. That’s the plan.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Presumably she’s already married, I would think.

MARK NORMAND: That’s true. Well, he’s got to pull out of that marriage and get that cash. What’s good?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Maybe he’s happy, Mark.

MARK NORMAND: I’m just joking.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: No, but maybe he is. I’m just saying, it’s so cynical.

MARK NORMAND: Fun when it goes the other way sometimes, you know. I think Britney Spears got raked through the coals with her husband.

Britney Spears and the State of America

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, yeah. What’s happening with Britney Spears? Because literally the last time I saw Britney Spears, it was like 30 years ago with “Hit Me Baby One More Time.” I haven’t followed her since. And then I opened my Instagram the other day and she’s like there with the knife.

MARK NORMAND: Yes, yes.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: What’s happened?

MARK NORMAND: She just got a DUI actually recently. She’s— I think she’s in jail or something. But I think that’s another great sign of the shift, right? You know, Britney Spears, fun, cleavage, pop star, here we go. And then, “Ah, I can’t take it anymore, I’m on pills, I want to cut you with a knife, I’m dancing alone in my underwear.” Something happened.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Sounds kind of sexy, actually. Yeah, alone in our underwear.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah, watch out though, she’ll cut the hood right off with those dinner knives.

FRANCIS FOSTER: So you hopeful for America, Mark?

MARK NORMAND: I’m hopeful, yeah. Well, you know, things always come back, you know, things always change. The word gay when I was a kid was an insult. Now it’s like cool. Yeah. So that’s progress. So you never know where things are going to go.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Wait, hold on. Where is it a good thing?

MARK NORMAND: To be gay? Yeah. I think in New York, if you’re in the arts, you go, “Hey, I’m bi.” Yeah. There’s a lot of people pretending to be bi. A lot of people pretending to be autistic.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: But that’s just straight people who want in on the action.

MARK NORMAND: That’s what I’m saying.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, yeah. Oh, I see what you’re saying, right?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah. But I think real regular gay people, like, “Oh, we gotta have them, we gotta have a gay guy in this movie, call that guy.” So that’s a plus.

FRANCIS FOSTER: But you see, why do you want a gay guy in your movie? This is Hollywood, there’s loads of them. You’ve probably got loads of them in your movie.

MARK NORMAND: Well, I think we just count any minority as better, you know, or Hollywood does.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah. So you ever thought about going bi? For the roles, I just—

MARK NORMAND: I could lie because it’s one of the things you can’t really prove. So I could say I’m bi, but I don’t want to be one of those guys because then I’m just another liar.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I think that’s what you should have to do if you’re going to declare that you’re bi at the audition. There you go. “Okay, Mr. Smith, please drop your pants.”

Proving You’re Gay to Avoid the Russian Army

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, well, “Mark, let’s see it.” I heard that in Russia, if you are gay, you don’t have to serve in the army.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Really?

MARK NORMAND: But you have to prove it.

FRANCIS FOSTER: But you have to prove it?

MARK NORMAND: Yes.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: This sounds a little far-fetched to me.

MARK NORMAND: Oral does not count, so you got to send a video in of you doing anal or whatever.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: So giving or receiving?

MARK NORMAND: Either. You hope to give.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, I think you do. Yeah, that’s not as gay.

MARK NORMAND: Exactly.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I mean, if it’s a choice between—

KONSTANTIN KISIN: This is a great episode, I’m enjoying it.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, between receiving and fighting in Ukraine, I mean, which one would you pick?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, you’re getting f*ed either way. Yeah, that’s a good question.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, Billy, go on.

MARK NORMAND: It might be an unofficial thing, but there’s no legal ban on gays in the military. Ah, damn it, where did I see that?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: There’s no legal ban?

MARK NORMAND: Is there a legal ban anywhere in that area on gays in the military? Because it could be like Slovakia or some shit. That I’m forgetting. Lithuania, somewhere.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: We’re all the same too, are we?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, just vodka monkey angry people.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Scary whites.

MARK NORMAND: I’m not saying you guys, I’m talking about that.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I’m from Russia originally.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, do you not know that? Yeah, I forgot that. Yeah, you really throw that around. Yeah, yeah, good timing on that one. Yeah, or bad timing.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, bad timing.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: So Billy, does that— is anywhere in Eastern Europe that bans gays from the military? Eastern Europe, that’s the word you were looking for? Yeah, two words in fact.

MARK NORMAND: I think being gay was almost illegal in Russia.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, there was a— well, yeah, in the Soviet Union it was illegal.

MARK NORMAND: Okay, wow, what a weird thing to call the cops on. Saw two guys kissing, get over here, they’re breaking the law.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I mean, it was gay in the UK until what, 1964?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I think it still is gay.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, it was illegal.

MARK NORMAND: Illegal, illegal.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah. It was illegal to be gay.

MARK NORMAND: Wow.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, crazy.

Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell

MARK NORMAND: So they’re not banned in any particular armies officially, but there’s apparently a Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.

MARK NORMAND: Okay.

FRANCIS FOSTER: You know what, I’m going to be controversial here.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I kind of like Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.

MARK NORMAND: I like it with everything. I don’t want to know anything about you.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, so why do I need to know?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I’ve never looked into what does Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell actually mean?

FRANCIS FOSTER: It means like you just shut your mouth and keep it to yourself.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, he’s clearly gay. I’m not going to ask him, and don’t tell me either, and we’ll just move on about our day.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, what you do in the privacy of your own home is cool. Just—

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, yeah, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell sounds kind of progressive. Yeah, you do your shit. It’s like libertarian. I’ll do my shit, leave me alone.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I think that’s a good way of being. I think that’s the problem now. We don’t do enough Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.

MARK NORMAND: Yes, you’re right. Now we come out. As a woman, as a Jew, as a Russian, as a gay lesbian, whatever you guys are. We just come out with it. Yeah, I love the way he pointed at you when he said gay lesbian.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Gay lesbian. I mean, I do look like a lesbian.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: However, unlike Gina Reinhardt, I’m going to be in trouble.

FRANCIS FOSTER: However, I genuinely think that, and this comes to opinions, we don’t need to know every one of your opinions.

MARK NORMAND: No, and saying “as a whatever” doesn’t make you worthier or anything. Just be you.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah. And I long for the day when we just—

MARK NORMAND: You know what?

FRANCIS FOSTER: When you just go and watch the football or whatever else. Let’s not talk about Iran.

MARK NORMAND: Right, right.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Because of the show, I always— I know Konstantin does as well. People come up to us and they want to talk about politics, and I get it. And I’m just like, mate, can we just not?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, enough’s enough.

FRANCIS FOSTER: I’m queuing for the urinal. Can we just, like, just call it just for a minute? You know, let’s talk Bonnie Blue.

Bonnie Blue and the OnlyFans Phenomenon

MARK NORMAND: So she is pregnant?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, she slept with 1,000 men. Yeah, right, in a day.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Is that how she got pregnant?

MARK NORMAND: I assume. I don’t think she’s going on extra credit after that.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, if you and wife continue to struggle—

MARK NORMAND: Oh, could I watch? All right, we’ll get you a little Destiny chair in the corner. Yeah.

FRANCIS FOSTER: No, did you see that tweet that went viral the other day? It’s a guy who got a message from Bonnie Blue.

MARK NORMAND: I did, on LinkedIn.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yes.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, what happened?

FRANCIS FOSTER: So he got a message from Bonnie Blue in 2020 when her— under a real name, which is Tia Billinger, I think it is— when she was a recruitment consultant.

MARK NORMAND: Okay.

FRANCIS FOSTER: And it was just like, “Hey, really nice to see you, have you thought about applying for these jobs?” And he’s like, man, this lady has taken— her career has taken a turn.

MARK NORMAND: She’s world famous.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah. Why did you want to talk about Bonnie Blue?

MARK NORMAND: She’s British, right?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yes.

MARK NORMAND: Okay. Well, I think the Ayatollah are like guys waiting to f Bonnie Blue because they’re just in line. There’s one after another and they’re just waiting to get fed. All right. It was a— I forced it in like Harvey. Cut that. That was terrible.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: No, that was good. But we actually interviewed her. You know, there’s like a Messi and Ronaldo of the OnlyFans. Shagging everyone, girls. So there’s Bonnie Blue and there’s Lily Phillips. Yes, that’s right, we had Lily Phillips on the show.

MARK NORMAND: And how was it sexually? Did you plow her?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I’m a happily married man, Francis.

FRANCIS FOSTER: That was for the, you know, that was for the Patreon.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh nice, you got to see, you know, paywall content.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Paywall content.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: We had to pay them to watch that.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Exactly.

MARK NORMAND: Could you ever be one of those guys in line? No, that would be horrible.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: I don’t know that I’d be able to perform under those circumstances.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, especially looking at who’s before you, right?

FRANCIS FOSTER: And the balaclava thing, like, wouldn’t that make you feel kind of claustrophobic?

MARK NORMAND: What’s that? A balaclava is a ski mask.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Ski mask.

MARK NORMAND: What? I didn’t know that.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, loads of those dudes, because they want to hide their identity, therefore they wear the ski mask.

MARK NORMAND: Whoa. Well, could you say in a weird way she’s curing the loneliness epidemic? A lot of incels out there. Bonnie Blue comes to town, they get a little relief.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, I mean, Andrew Schultz in that very seat said that she’s curing grooming gangs.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: She’s the solution to our grooming gangs.

MARK NORMAND: Oh yeah, that’s not bad. Yeah, I like that.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah, it’s a weird phenomenon, isn’t it? It just shows how the internet just distorts everything completely.

MARK NORMAND: I think too, they always say like in Roman times, the end of society is crazy promiscuous women, gender stuff, and then something else. And it’s a lot of shit. They were like, oh, we’re in that.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, inflation and war.

MARK NORMAND: There it is.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And we have all that.

MARK NORMAND: So we just happen to be born in this crazy— we’ve had a lot of shit go on, just, you know, pandemic and school shootings and fentanyl and war and Gaza and Ukraine. And I mean, the list goes on. BLM, MeToo. You know, it never ends. This is a lot of stuff we’re taking in, and I don’t think we’re evolved for it.

Wrapping Up: Anti-Fun, Body Positivity, and Australia

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Mark, before we go. Oh, is there anything we forgot to talk about? He’s turned away from me again because I got serious. I scared him.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I feel like I let you down on that. I was going off on a topic and then you’re like, all right, we gotta get out of here.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: No, no, no, no, no. We’ve been talking for like an hour and 15.

MARK NORMAND: Oh, geez. Well, after editing, we’ll get that down about 31. No, let’s see. What do we want to talk? Well, I wanted to bring up the anti-fun. I think that’s a our society all over the world. I think it’s a global thing. I will say, I went to Australia and it feels like America in the ’90s. Yeah, everyone’s thin, they’re on coke, and you can say retard. It’s a fun place. Their politics are a little kooky, but I like it over there.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, everyone’s getting thin here now as well. Have you noticed that?

MARK NORMAND: I got a bit about the body positivity movement was a sham. They lied to us.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Yeah, they all wanted to be slim. Yeah, there’s a shocker.

MARK NORMAND: And these fat— they made us call them pretty. Yeah, what the hell?

KONSTANTIN KISIN: And then they took the jab and now they’re happy. Well, no, they’re not. They’re slim.

MARK NORMAND: They’re still— yeah, they’re still not happy. But Lizzo was the fat champion. Now she’s getting skinny.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, is she?

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, I liked fat Lizzo. I stood behind her. You just couldn’t see me. But yeah, she’s getting skinny now. And you’re like, I like when reality kicks in. That’s very fun for me. Like, did you see there’s a girl who identifies as a dog? And she got attacked by a dog.

FRANCIS FOSTER: It’s on video.

MARK NORMAND: It’s a real story. Pull that one up, Jotty.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Dog bites dog.

MARK NORMAND: Yeah, exactly. So you want to play in these waters, you know, you’re going to get bit.

Final Question: What Are We Not Talking About?

FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah. So, Mark, final question, always the same: what’s the one thing we’re not talking about that we really should be?

MARK NORMAND: The climate? No.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: What do you think about the climate?

MARK NORMAND: I think, you know, the glaciers are melting, we are losing coral reef, but I think we do overblow it. I think people use it. It’s kind of like a guy with anxiety. Sure, he might want to fly with his dog, but that doesn’t mean everybody wants to fly with their dog.

And I think here’s something we need to be talking about. Two things can exist. We need to come back to that world where two things can exist. You know, we go, “Hey, trans is a real thing. These people deserve rights. You shouldn’t be mean to them.” But also maybe not every actress has 17 trans kids. Two things can exist.

Because if you go, “Hey, this lady has 9 trans children,” feels a little off statistically. And people go, “Whoa, what are you, transphobic?” And you’re like, “No, I’m just saying I’m with, I’m believing this, but I’m just saying this is bullshit.” Two things can be true. I wish we could come back to that. You know, we just go right for the jugular immediately. Everyone’s running off emotion. So let’s go back to the world where two things can be true.

FRANCIS FOSTER: Perfect.

KONSTANTIN KISIN: Awesome to have you on. Everybody go watch the special. But before you do that, head on over to triggerpod.co.uk where Mark’s going to answer your questions. With more comics today having podcasts with huge followings, do you think they’ll become more politically influential like Theo, Rogan, Will from? Where’s this all going?

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