Read the full transcript of a conversation between Judge Andrew Napolitano and political activist Ray McGovern on Judging Freedom Podcast titled “Putin Addresses His Troops” premiered March 31, 2025.
Listen to the audio version here:
TRANSCRIPT:
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, March 31st, 2025. Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a minute on President Putin’s rather remarkable and utterly candid speech to some of his troops in a submarine.
European Elites Preparing for War?
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Ray McGovern, good morning. Welcome here, my dear friend. I do want to talk to you at some length on the significance of what President Putin has been saying lately, both to a group of businessmen and to sailors aboard a submarine, but before we do, a couple of other questions, if you don’t mind, on the topics that are making the rounds this morning. Do you think that the European elites are preparing for war with Russia?
RAY MCGOVERN: I think they’re doing the military industrial complex’s bidding and trying to get their economies back in shape, and the way they do that is traditionally prepare for war. Problem is that once they get all those tanks built, they’re going to have to use them, or you know, then they’ll replace them, so it’s kind of a ruse they’re using to stay in power. They’re on very slippery ground, their social benefits are going way down, they’re all going to be thrown out pretty soon, they’re just trying to delay the day when that comes.
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: So Alastair Crooke and I were speaking this morning about the difference between building a tank and building a car. You build a tank, if you don’t use it, you gain nothing by it, if you do use it, you’re destroying somebody else’s property.
RAY MCGOVERN: They’re way out on a limb, Judge, and they think that they can use Zelensky to kind of save them. In other words, they want to appear the saviors of Ukraine. Putin is in a position not to let that happen, and as soon as Trump learns a little better, and I understand Trump ended up yesterday by saying, yeah, we’re going to talk again, Putin and I, as long as he understands a little better what’s going on in Ukraine and in Europe, to a lesser extent in Europe, because they’re pretty much strap hangers, they’re pretty much sidelined, and while they are building up their own economies and trying to save their economies by going on a war footing, it’s not going to come to a very good end, that’s for sure. And I think they’ll be sensible enough not to tweet the Russian bear to the point where they go to war with Russia. I can’t believe that that’s more than just rhetoric.
The “President of Peace” and Middle East Conflict
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: As of last night, the so-called president of peace had bombed a defenseless country 10,000 miles away, 65 times in 48 hours. To what end?
RAY MCGOVERN: Let me ask him where his luck he got out of there alive.
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Well, because Netanyahu wants them to do it. I mean, it’s really, really simple. Trump is doing his bidding. He’s trying to bail Netanyahu out when Netanyahu’s in very, very, very strange and difficult circumstances. That’s the only reason, and the Houthis are an example of defiance, and actually a very bizarre example of people who consider principle paramount. In other words, they don’t want the Palestinians to be genocided, and they are being genocided, and the Houthis feel a certain affinity and solidarity with them, which to my amazement, the major Arab countries do not feel or are so bribed by the United States in economic terms that they can’t do what they should do in supporting as the Houthis and Ansar Alam is doing. In other words, they’re not supporting them the way they should.
Putin’s Recent Speeches
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: What is your take, big picture, before we get into some of the specifics of what he said, President Putin’s speeches in the past week, one to a group of businessmen and one to a group of sailors aboard a submarine. We’ll start with the latter. Putin addresses his troops.
RAY MCGOVERN: Yeah, this is a big deal, Judge. What he talked about was a whole slew of things. Let me go through just some of the major points. There he is with the Supreme Commander of the Navy. He says, look, things are going really good in Ukraine. I’ll tell you briefly, we’re doing it gradually, not as quickly as some would like. Oh, isn’t that interesting? In other words, Putin is admitting that lots of people in Russia itself were trying to say, come on, get on with this thing. You can do it. Why don’t you go faster? Now, what else?
Okay. He says, you know, we agreed in Istanbul, you know, six weeks after the war started, on denazification. He puts that before demilitarization, and that’s significant. The head of the negotiation from Ukraine initialed this agreement, and it included denazification, okay?
Now, I mentioned yesterday, or I guess it was Friday when we were doing the roundtable, that with respect to relations with the United States, Putin was very upfront saying, quote, “I would like to say first that in my opinion, the newly elected president of the United States sincerely wants to end this conflict for a number of reasons, such as I won’t go into right now. There are many of them. But in my opinion, this is a sincere desire.”
Now, that puts Putin way out on a limb, okay? I trust they’re talking about trust now after what they regard with some reason as a series of betrayals. So either he’s feeling that he’s got this whole thing under control, or he’s just bragging, and there are people within Russia who would second guess that and say, look, you know, it may be your opinion, Vladimir Vladimirovich, but it’s not our opinion. You need more than trust. You have to have the goods.
Legitimacy of the Ukrainian Government
And that’s when Putin goes into the major thing about whether Zelensky has a legitimate government. And of course, this is not the first time that Putin said, no, it’s not legitimate. And neither are all the people that he’s appointed. They’re all illegitimate. Worse still, the Nazis are back in power. He makes that very clear. He points out, look, in 2017, the US Congress said the Azov battalion, a bunch of Nazis, and you couldn’t give any aid to them. 2017. Oh, that was my, Trump’s reign, right?
So he says, look, the Nazis are the problem, and you got to address denazification in a very severe way. And that means that you can’t negotiate with a figurehead who is run by the Nazis. That’s what he says. OK, so what do you do? I got an idea. He says, we’ll go to the UN, we’ll have the UN involved. And curiously enough, Wang Yi, Chinese foreign minister, is due in Moscow next week. I do believe they’re going to put some substance behind this proposal that the UN come in, as it has done in situations like Serbia and East Timor, and could have sort of enveloped this thing so there could be a ceasefire. And there could be real negotiations, not with the Nazis, but with the people that come in and are able to arrange real negotiations, real elections first, and then negotiations with people who are rightfully and juridically in power.
Trump’s Response to Putin’s Statements
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Here’s President Trump, critical of Putin, and then we’ll listen to these actual words which you’ve just so nicely summarized.
[VIDEO CLIP STARTS]
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I was disappointed in a certain way, some of the things that were said over the last day or two having to do with Zelensky, because when he considers Zelensky not credible, he’s supposed to be making a deal with him, whether you like him or you don’t like him. So I wasn’t happy with that. But I think he’s going to be good. And I certainly wouldn’t want to put secondary tariffs on Russia. But if they were put on, it would not be very good for them. – [Video clip ends]
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: I don’t think President Putin could care less about tariffs or more sanctions. And I think President Trump is either pretending to be unaware or is truly unaware of how well Russia has prospered under the sanctions. But getting back to what President Putin said, here’s the core of what he said. It’s a very, very articulate explanation.
Cut number 15.
[VIDEO CLIP STARTS]
VLADIMIR PUTIN: The current civil authorities in Ukraine have no legitimacy in accordance with the country’s constitution. Ukraine has held no presidential election, while according to the constitution, all key officials are to be appointed by the president, including regional government bodies, governors and so on. So if the president is illegitimate, so are all the others. So under these circumstances of de facto illegitimacy, neo-Nazi formations receive additional weapons and recruit new personnel. What does this lead to? What could it lead to? It results in de facto power being in their hands.
This in turn means that it is already unclear with whom to sign documents and what effects such documents might carry. For tomorrow, new leaders may come to power through elections and declare, we do not know who signed those papers, so goodbye. The issue is not just this uncertainty. It is that these neo-Nazi formations, such as Azov, among others, are effectively beginning to run the country. This raises the question, how is it possible to conduct negotiations with them?
In such situations, international practice follows a well-established path. Within the framework of the United Nations peacekeeping operations, there have been several cases of what is termed external governance or temporary administration. This occurred in East Timor, I believe in 1999, in parts of the former Yugoslavia and in New Guinea. In short, such precedents exist.
[VIDEO CLIP ENDS]
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Boy, I think he’s got a terrific handle on what’s going on there. That is a brilliant, in my view, and lucid explanation of the dangers of negotiating with Volodymyr Zelensky. Your thoughts, Ray?
RAY MCGOVERN: I think when they talk, probably later this week, Putin will have a chance to school Trump on what’s really happened here. To persuade Trump, and the evidence is legion, that the Nazis are really in control. The Nazis, aided and abetted by MI6, the British intelligence service.
One sideline here is that to the degree Trump succeeds in declassifying all those Russia gate documents, it will show that the British were involved deeply in all this stuff from the very outset. And they tried to do Trump in before he became elected and then cooperated in the effort of Russia gate. So the British and the Nazis are together here, and here is Putin trying to find a third way.
And as I say, I fully expect the Chinese Wang Yi, the foreign minister, very adept with Lavrov, in Moscow next week, to be putting together a little package that they’ll surface at the UN Security Council, a package that makes good sense, eminent good sense, and has some promise of circumventing this business about denazification.
Remember that from the very outset, Putin said, look, we have a twin aim in a special military operation. Demilitarization, that’s about done. Denazification, that’s worse. So that’s why he’s focusing on this.
And with respect to moving toward the upper or finishing off the job, I just can’t omit this passage of what he told those sailors. What’s happening today? Yeah, it is very clear. Along the entire line of contact, our troops have a strategic initiative. I just recently said, we will finish them off. Period. Okay. There are reasons to believe that we will finish them off. I only think that the Ukrainian people should realize what is happening, what this means to them.
So they are finishing them off. That’s the background here. That’s the context. There are no Russians. And they’re saying, look, Mr. Trump, this is going to drag on for another year. Witness the fact that one of the Russian negotiators said that.
Contrasting Approaches: Putin’s Patience vs. Trump’s Impatience
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: You know, the emotional difference between them is remarkable, Putin and Trump. Putin is immensely patient, and Trump is immensely impatient. I mean, this is obvious to a schoolchild, much less those of us.
RAY MCGOVERN: Yeah, he’s not getting his way. And when one of the Russian negotiators in Saudi Arabia made a statement just two days ago, saying, you know, this is going on for a year or more. I mean, this is really difficult. And, you know, these things are not intractable, but it’s going to take a really long time. Kurashin is his name. Well, that pissed Trump off, to use his expression.
When he gets a little real, when hopefully real analysts show him that the reality here is that he’s got no cards on the battlefield, and that to the degree he can recognize the problem with the Nazis, well, that’s got to be addressed. And this is one, imagine it. Now, Putin said, this is not the only way we can do this, but this is no, let’s consider it. So there’s a new proposal on the table. I hope it gets some lift by people who really matter in the world.
Here’s the President Putin on Ukraine elections, crisp cut number 14.
[VIDEO CLIP STARTS]
VLADIMIR PUTIN: In principle, it would indeed be possible to discuss under U.N. auspices with the United States and even European countries, and certainly with our partners and allies, the possibility of establishing a temporary administration in Ukraine. To what end? To conduct democratic elections, to bring to power a competent government that enjoys public trust, and only then to begin negotiations on a peace treaty and sign legitimate agreements that would be recognized worldwide as consistent and reliable.
[VIDEO CLIP ENDS]
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: I don’t get it. Trump is, quote, pissed off, to use this phrase, at President Putin’s challenging the legitimacy of Vladimir Zelensky. Trump threw that, not physically, threw Vladimir Zelensky out of the White House because he had the temerity to challenge him and to challenge Vice President Vance. And now Trump comes to his defense. Putin, in my opinion, makes a perfectly valid moral and legal argument that it would be crazy to negotiate with this guy when he’s going to be replaced by the hardliners because he’s negotiating with us.
RAY MCGOVERN: Well, again, the British and the Nazis are working hand in glove. The primary contender to take over for Zelensky happens to be Zelensky. Okay. And what is he? He’s Ukrainian ambassador to London. They’re grooming him, but Putin is not going to have any part of that.
So what we have here is a kind of a deal where Trump’s got to realize that just because he four putted the 18th green, for God’s sake, you know, he’s not allowed to be pissed off at Putin. That’s what he comes to. That was Sunday after the golf game with Lindsey Graham and the Finnish president urging Trump to do the kinds of things that Trump is trying to not do with respect to Putin.
So the saving grace is Putin’s in no hurry. He’s saying, look, we can finish him off anytime we want. And that’s true. And so his negotiator is saying it could take a year. And what does that require? That requires Trump to recognize the realities here and try to help do something about denazification because that is worse than it was back in 2022. And there is a way to do that. A UN is just one good proposal in my view.
Europe’s Stance and Ukraine’s Ultra-Nationalist Problem
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: You know, we started out this conversation by my asking you if the European elites are preparing for war with Russia. And we all know that they are, as our mutual friend Gerald Salenti says, when all else fails, they take you to war. President Putin is not ignorant of that, but he’s willing to talk to the Europeans and said so in this clip.
Chris, cut number 13.
[VIDEO CLIP STARTS]
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We are prepared to work with Europe as well, despite their inconsistent behavior and constant attempts to lead us up the garden path. Nevertheless, we have grown accustomed to this. I trust we will avoid making mistakes rooted in excessive trust towards our so-called partners. But in general, they have a problem over there, which is never highlighted, just mentioned in passing. I am highlighting it. What is it? Ultra nationalists have had considerable influence in Ukraine from the start. In fact, since the collapse of the Soviet Union, these people hold openly neo-Nazi views, and they even use the term in Ukraine. So we were not the ones who invented it. Curiously, few people mentioned this now either.
[VIDEO CLIP ENDS]
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Few people mentioned this now. I’m glad that you chose that translation because there’s an erroneous translation which says, Putin, I hope that we don’t fall afoul of, hope that we don’t get conned again. That’s pretty much what
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: He says. But the word in Russian is надеюсь. And the word means really, I expect, or as this translator did, I trust that we’re not going to get conned again. Okay. That’s big. Because that’s what he was accused of, rightfully so, for eight years as he sat back and depended on the Germans and the French to monitor the Minsk Accords. That’s not going to happen again.
RAY MCGOVERN: So he’s saying, I trust this is not going to happen again. He’s not saying, I hope this is not going to happen again, because the pressure is on him. And he doesn’t really have to move very fast. All he has to do is a trip and a trip and a trip. And there’s a major offensive coming in May, I think, the Russians will go all the way to the Dnieper, and then it’ll be a new situation. And Trump might be encouraged to deal now, rather than then.
Closing Remarks
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Ray McGovern, a pleasure chatting with you, my dear man. Thank you for your knowledge of all this and your unique knowledge of the nuances of Russian grammar. Very, very helpful and fascinating. All the best. We’ll see you again Friday with that youngster, Larry Johnson, for the Intelligence Community Roundtable. Thank you, Ray.
RAY MCGOVERN: Thank you, Judge. Sure.
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: And the aforementioned youngster, Larry Johnson, will be here at 11:30 this morning. And at four this afternoon from Rome, I inadvertently said he was in Beijing. He was in Beijing last week. Professor Jeffrey Sachs, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.
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