Mel Robbins Podcast: w/ Dermatologist Dr. Shereen Idriss (Transcript)

How do you want the person listening who feels now all of a sudden like, “Oh my God, the fact that my skin is in welts and it’s acne all over the place and I hate how I look,” or “my skin is sagging,” or “I sat out for decades in the sun and now I’m screwed?” How do you want the person listening who’s now starting to collapse a little, to listen to what you have to say about what’s possible if you feel like your skin is reflecting not good health on the inside?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So I would want you to know, if you feel like your skin is taking control of your life and it is out of control — you are still in control. And it’s a matter of first taking a step back and calming your skin down and really trying to first focus on calming everything down before focusing on treating the issue. And once we have that step in place, and we will talk about it more today, you will gain control over your skin and you will see that the possibilities are really endless.

And it’s never too late to start, whether you are 20, 30, 40. I mean, I have patients — my oldest patient is 88 and she still cares. And that’s what I love about her. That shows her will to keep going.

And people — I think our society describes very negatively cosmetic work or vanity. And it’s usually talked about under a negative light. But the truth is, being vain to a healthy and certain extent is just a reflection that you still care. If we didn’t care, I’d almost be more worried. Like, are we really at the bottom of our struggles here?

And so you have to understand that it’s not vanity, it’s a reflection of you caring that you still want to show up. It doesn’t matter when you’re starting, you can always start to take control and help yourself.

Healthy Vanity vs. Unhealthy Vanity

MEL ROBBINS: As a world renowned dermatologist, what is healthy vanity and what is unhealthy vanity when it comes to hygiene?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: That is a great question and I don’t think it has ever been truly defined. So I’m going to give you my subjective perspective.

Unhealthy vanity — let’s start with the negative — is when it is constantly consuming your mental thoughts. Almost like an addiction where no matter what you do or no matter what you try for yourself, you’re constantly speaking about it in a negative way and it’s not good enough. And so you are chasing a never ending nothingness because it’s just not something that’s achievable.

Whereas a healthy dose of vanity is like caring enough to show up and wear an ironed shirt instead of a wrinkled shirt. Caring enough to brush your hair, caring enough to show up in a way where it’s still a positive reflection of who you are, but it’s not consuming who you are. Your confidence is not dependent on how you look, but it’s the cherry on top and it allows you to feel more confident.

And so that, I think, is the difference between unhealthy vanity and healthy vanity.

MEL ROBBINS: What I kept thinking about as I was listening to the way that you were talking about self criticism and never being enough is that there’s also that relationship between unhealthy being the constant pursuit of hoping other people think you look a certain way, versus the ability to look in the mirror and care about how you feel about yourself.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Newsflash — you’ve always looked like you. So if you’re always pursuing other people’s approval of how you look, you’re pursuing something that doesn’t exist.

And I’ve been in practice for over 10 years. I see nearly 100 patients a week and more often than not, it’s a much deeper rooted issue that you’re trying to get to. And that’s where it’s such a vulnerable state where you have to find someone that you trust who’s not going to feed off these insecurities or vulnerabilities or take advantage of. And I’ve seen it through every angle. Cosmetics is not just skin deep, it’s deeper.

The Deeper Truth Behind What We Hate About Our Skin

MEL ROBBINS: I’ve never heard anybody explain it like that. And I can give you an example because I feel like I’m in the exam room with you right now. I have come in because I hate, at the age of 57, I’ve got these jowls. And when you just said that it’s never really about the thing you’re complaining about — you’re right.

For me, it’s that I feel old when I see my skin sagging. And it scares me to think that I’m 57 and that that much of my life has just flown by, and that somehow if I get rid of these things that are hanging down — like meat purses on my face — that I will feel different about myself. But maybe there’s something to do that we can, and we’ll talk about all that. But I love that we’re also saying that it’s really about how you feel and the deeper things that are going on.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yeah, a thousand percent. Wow.

Lifestyle Habits That Positively Affect Your Skin

MEL ROBBINS: Let’s talk about how your lifestyle and habits impact your skin. What are the specific lifestyle habits that positively affect your skin?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: The most important habits that I think are underspoken of.

Number one — and I used to roll my eyes in my 20s and even in my 30s at this one, but it’s true — sleep. You cannot underestimate the value of sleep. And the reason beauty sleep exists is for a reason. But I think it’s misunderstood. It’s not because you slept eight hours last night that you look good today. Sleep is like compound interest. It’s a long term investment and it’s that bank that you’re feeding over time, that gives you your best results over time in the long run. So it’s not just about having one good night’s rest. It’s about consistently showing up to let your skin and your body heal and regenerate and start over again.

Number two is movement. And I’m not saying you have to go become triathletes and bodybuilders, but simple movement, like just getting up, going for a walk, moving around, because that causes your lymphatic fluid to move, it keeps things going, it pumps the blood to your skin, it allows you to be better and show up better for yourself. It’s very simple. But not many people move as much as they should.

Number three, and this one is a little bit sensitive — diet. A healthy diet is going to be supportive and it’s going to help to create the right environment for your skin. We are all in agreement. But when people are eating their retinol, eating carrots to no end to try to get the benefits of a retinol that you’re applying topically, it’s not going to give you that same impact as a topical medication, prescription moisturizer cream. Food is meant to really be supportive, to make sure that you are creating the best environment for yourself to push forward. Skincare with the crappiest diet is not great. You’re just putting a band aid.

MEL ROBBINS: Right.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It’s both working hand in hand. So I think you have to think of lifestyle as a piece of the puzzle, a very important piece of the puzzle. But it’s not the whole puzzle. Because when you make it the whole puzzle, you think that you can be fully in control. But there are going to be some things that happen that you’re going to have to learn — how do we roll with the punches? How do we ask for help? How do we have external things coming in to help us?

The Three Essential Skincare Products You Actually Need

MEL ROBBINS: Well, Dr. Idriss, the good news is that you’re here to educate us about what the actual options are. So one thing that I’d love to hear you help us with is that we are so marketed to, and every time I go online I see some 12-step skincare routine. Red light masks, treatments, miracle products. How do you tune out the noise to figure out what your skin truly needs?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: This is a great question, and I think this is the million dollar question. First of all, nobody needs a 12-step skincare routine. Nobody, nobody needs to be spending thousands and countless hours on products. It’s not productive, it’s not realistic.

And as a mom of two who has not one, but two, some would argue three businesses, and a partner in my life, especially between the ages of 0 and 4, when my kids were really small, it was impossible to find time for myself. And so failing yourself by not showing up through a consistent skincare routine is the first point of failure. So if it’s not something that you can be consistent with, it’s not good enough. And a routine needs to be simple enough that you can be consistent with it, so you can stick it through and actually see results.

So I think it’s really important that people understand, because the Internet, social media, it’s optimized for selling things, and more doesn’t mean better, especially not when it comes to your skin. And you really have to try to take a giant step back.

And so this is what I tell patients, I’m going to tell you what I tell my own family. Literally, take a giant step back from your mirror — and not your magnifying mirror — and look at the forest and not the tree. Understand what is the biggest issue that you see in your skin. Is it brown spots? Is it redness? Is it dehydration? Is it wrinkles? Is it, I don’t know, whatever creepiness, whatever it is that you see — what is the one biggest issue that bothers you? And let’s start just there.

Step 1: A Gentle Cleanser

MEL ROBBINS: If you’re overwhelmed, what are the three skincare products that you would say to somebody in your practice that they should add to their routine?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: If you’re overwhelmed by all the products, forget the specific products themselves. There are three categories that you kind of want to incorporate into your routine to make sure, number one, that you’re protecting your skin; number two, you’re supporting your skin barrier; and number three, you are helping drive long-term change.

Before I start, I just want to preface this by saying I am not sponsored by any of these companies. None of this is paid for, this is not an advertisement. And I try to pick products that are within everyone’s budget, but also products you can find at your local drugstore. And I’m going to give you two examples for each, because it’s the way that — make up your own mind what it is that you want to use.

We’re starting with a very gentle cleanser, one that is meant to clean and cleanse your skin without over-stripping your skin. And this is one that you can find at any drugstore. It’s called Vanicream. It’s a very simple one, it’s nothing fancy, it can help clean your face. If you’re somebody who has very dry skin, you can get another kind of cleanser that is a little bit more hydrating. But the job of a cleanser is really to just set the foundation, clean the gunk off of your face. And it is the smallest act of kindness that you can do for yourself. After you’ve put your face out into the world, come home, get the day off your face, and just start afresh. It’s your foundational step. That’s number one.

MEL ROBBINS: How are you supposed to wash your face?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So I recommend using a cleanser at night for the most part. This is a general rule. And ideally just using water in the morning. Once you’ve gotten the day off at the end of the day and you’ve put on your moisturizer and you go to sleep, in the morning, do you really need to use a cleanser to get all of the extra gunk off? Probably not. And just having water run on your face is going to be enough.

MEL ROBBINS: Wow. Like, even if your spouse or dog is breathing on you? A general rule of thumb?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: I don’t know.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, you know what? I’m older than you, so when I’m sweating like crazy because of menopause, I feel like I’ve woken up and run a marathon. So I’m like, I’ve got to clean all this stuff. But I could do it with water.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: But even going through menopause, your skin is in a more dehydrated state.

MEL ROBBINS: It is, yes.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And so you’re losing that ability to hold onto hydration. And that’s why you feel a little creepier. If you are compounding on top of that, over-stripping your skin and getting rid of the oil that is on your skin, your skin is going to feel more out of sync, and it’s going to be harder to make sure that you feel more balanced.

Now, there’s a huge subset who cannot not use a cleanser in the morning because they have a lot of acne, they’re oily-prone, et cetera. So this is not necessarily for everyone, but for the vast majority it is enough.

And so I think that’s the first thing. The second thing to take into consideration before you go into the action of washing your face is the water temperature, which leads me back to the dehydration. No one talks about water temperature, and we usually probably use hot water because it’s the morning and you want something warm on your face.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, yeah.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yes. But think of your face like a greasy pan — hot water gets rid of the grease. So if you’re now over-stripping your face with hot water and using a cleanser every morning and at night, you’re probably double-whammying the thing.

MEL ROBBINS: But don’t I want to get rid of the grease?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Sometimes the grease is also protective. It’s a balance.

MEL ROBBINS: If it’s all cleansed at night, then the skin is doing what it’s trying to do to repair itself overnight.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Exactly.

MEL ROBBINS: And then I wake up and wash it all away with warm water. Okay, warm water, water.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And then this is, I think, where it gets complicated — the double cleanse and makeup removal, where people get confused. A lot of people don’t realize that they can use their cleanser twice. Now, if they are heavy makeup wearers who have waterproof makeup, or really heavy makeup, use an oil-based cleanser first or micellar water, and follow it with a gentle gel-based cleanser. That’s not a problem.

But what I think is the most important part is having a washcloth for your face by your sink, and utilizing that washcloth to help yourself work into the nooks and crannies of your face to get everything off. And it’s funny because people rolled their eyes and I had so many comments, but if you have seven little washcloths, each one a different color, and you keep them by your mirror at your sink, every day you’re guaranteeing to use a different one. It’s a fresh pair of underwear for your face. Are we going to reuse a dirty pair of underwear? No. And so having a clean washcloth is a very simple solution. Having seven of them takes away the brain work from it, so you don’t have to actively think of it. And once you’re done washing your face, you toss it in the hamper.

MEL ROBBINS: Got it.

Step 2: A Simple Moisturizer

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Number two is a very simple moisturizer. I’m not talking about a moisturizer with actives right now — we are setting the foundation and we’re trying to understand how to moisturize our skin. And one thing we do not often talk about is not just your skin type or your age, but the environment that you’re in. Are we living somewhere really dry? Is it winter? Or are we somewhere very humid?

Very simple moisturizers like this one — it’s a tried and true. Everything great was once new. Not everything new is great.

MEL ROBBINS: Bronze, baby.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: We go for the tried and true.

MEL ROBBINS: Grandma used that.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: This is a nice, thicker cream. This is more of a gel moisturizer.

MEL ROBBINS: That’s a L’Oréal collagen gel.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And the reason I bring this up is to make sure — this is a very nice hydrating moisturizer. But the word “collagen” on this moisturizer makes people think that it’s going to help them replenish their collagen. But it’s a hydrating moisturizer. It’s not going to replenish your collagen. And so I just think you have to understand that nuance, and understand what you’re buying and what you’re trying to get out of it.

Step 3: Daily Sunscreen — And the Truth About SPF

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And then number three, what everybody should be using — a daily sunscreen. There are several sunscreens that you can find at any local drugstore. One thing that most people don’t realize about sunscreen is that it can double up as your moisturizer. It can, yeah, for sure. So you don’t necessarily need a moisturizer.

Let’s say you’re really oily and you live somewhere really humid, like you’re in Florida. Do you need to add extra moisture to your skin? Absolutely not. So you can just find yourself a sunscreen that works for your skin type. Like, this is a sheer, light sunscreen. If you’re somewhere very dry and you want extra moisture, even though you’ve moisturized, you can get a moisturizing, thicker, richer sunscreen that can help with barrier repair.

MEL ROBBINS: And would it say “moisturizer” on it? Because you’ve got one from Neutrogena, one from La Roche-Posay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So they don’t always say “moisturizer.” This one does say it. And I think it’s a nice example, just because if somebody doesn’t know and they’re going to a drugstore, they can see it. But it’s really about understanding that texture. If it’s really rich and really creamy and nice, and you feel like your skin stays hydrated after the fact, it’s hydrating your skin.

MEL ROBBINS: So is it more about the feel of what it feels like?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Absolutely. And that’s the secret about sunscreen — finding a sunscreen that you actually like how it feels on your skin. I think the biggest reason why most people don’t adhere to wearing sunscreen is because they don’t like how it feels. So I think people haven’t found the right frog. They’ve kissed many frogs, but they haven’t found the right one.

MEL ROBBINS: What SPF should you wear every day?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: SPF is more than just a number. SPF stands for sun protection factor, and it measures basically how well your skin is protected. So when we’re looking for an SPF, we need to make sure that our SPF has “broad spectrum” on it — so that it’s protecting against both UVA and UVB, because both contribute to skin cancer. One causes more burn, like UVB. One contributes more to the breakdown of your collagen, like UVA. But if you’re just getting a simple sunscreen SPF, not broad spectrum, you’re not protecting against UVA. So broad spectrum is not a nice-to-have. It’s a need-to-have.

That’s number one. The second thing — SPF 30. People don’t really know. It’s just a number.

MEL ROBBINS: Should I guess what I think it is?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yeah.

MEL ROBBINS: I kind of believed that the 15 is only going so deep in terms of the barrier, the 30 is maybe going a little deeper in terms of the invisible shield. And is it actually about the number of minutes that it’s helping?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yes, it is. It’s minutes. So it’s not 15 minutes or 30 minutes, but it roughly means how much longer you can stay out of the sun without burning compared to no sunscreen.

MEL ROBBINS: So let’s say — this is a lot of math.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Say it takes 10 minutes for you to burn. With an SPF of 30, it should technically take you 300 minutes. So that’s what SPF stands for. And it’s something that most people don’t even know.

There Is No Such Thing as a Safe Tan

MEL ROBBINS: Dr. Idriss, what’s the biggest myth about getting a safe tan?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: There is no safe tan. A tan, and any form of pigment that gets produced because of the sun — even a freckle — is a sign of DNA damage. And so anybody who says, “Oh, but I get a base tan,” is just telling me that their skin is already reacting to the UV rays that it got, and it has internally damaged the DNA of their cells. So there is no safe tan.

Reversing Sun Damage and Products to Skip

MEL ROBBINS: Okay. So for somebody like me, who really blew this child of the late 70s and the 80s who would lather up with Bain de Soleil tanning oil.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yeah.

MEL ROBBINS: And then I would lay on my driveway with my friend Jody. Of course I had the foil. Of course I was going for that copper tan. Pull the bikini down. I have so much skin damage, but I got the tan line. Can you reverse that damage? What do I like?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It’s never too late to help yourself. Number one, I think if you are somebody who’s done that, make sure you go in for a yearly skin exam. Because, yes, it’s already DNA damage and you don’t want to get skin cancer and you may develop skin cancer. But the good news with skin cancer is it’s highly treatable when caught early.

So don’t let fear get in the way of you getting checked and just go in for a yearly skin exam the same way you go in for dental cleaning, get your skin checked. But you can of course, help yourself, at least from a cosmetic standpoint, because how does that damage usually show up? First, it shows up in the form of brown spots, sunspots, hyperpigmentation, discoloration. And so understanding how to use skincare over the counter as a baseline routine married to prescription is going to give you a very solid way to help your skin to look fresher and better.

MEL ROBBINS: I’m starting to understand the marketing language now because I am constantly seeing where it says “reverses sun damage,” but what it’s actually saying is “reverses the signs of sun damage” because you can’t get rid of the damage done to the DNA. You can just maybe lighten the brown spot that’s starting to appear. Am I catching on?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Exactly, exactly.

MEL ROBBINS: You’re making a smarter Dr. Idriss.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Exactly.

MEL ROBBINS: So those are the three categories of products that you need. You need a gentle cleanser, you need a moisturizer, and you need sunscreen.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yes.

Products That Are a Waste of Money

MEL ROBBINS: Now let’s talk about the things that you should skip because they are a waste of money.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And to just think of this conceptually, anything that is promising instant results, it’s probably not going to be for the best of your long term benefit. Anything that is breaking your skin barrier, it’s not going to be for the best of your long term benefit. And anything that is irritating or inflaming your skin, similar to breaking your skin barrier, it’s not going to be for the best of your long term benefit.

So, number one, it’s not sheet masks as a whole category, but when the format doesn’t match what the product is trying to give you, it’s a red flag.

MEL ROBBINS: So you’re talking about these masks that I see at every checkout now that have all — my daughters wear these like crazy. I typically will put one on on a plane, but I don’t know what I’m buying.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: This is where you have to understand what an active is. Okay, so the point of a sheet mask is to calm your skin down, to hold onto that hydration, to keep that gunk in. Right.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: When you find a sheet mask with an active, like a retinol, this is a red flag because the format of the product doesn’t match the ingredient. The last thing I would want to do is put a retinol under occlusion in a sensitive area. It’s like a recipe for chaos and disaster. So understanding what you’re purchasing is very important for you. That’s why I think it’s important to have a basic understanding of what are ingredients, what are we trying to achieve with them, and then what are the different formats that exist that I can layer into my skincare once I have my foundation in place?

MEL ROBBINS: If you were to buy a mask, what are you looking for?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Just cooling, moisturizing. Honestly, really just hydrating, moisturizing. Because I’m looking for that instant kind of plumping glow and then I’m done. I’m not looking for long term gains with it.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay, what is the next product you should not waste money on?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: All right, here goes. Ready? It’s a little controversial, but a loofah. Okay.

MEL ROBBINS: Why should I not have a loofah?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Number one, what worries me a bit about loofahs is people use this on their face. And I’ve seen this time and time again. If it’s not a loofah that looks like this, like a synthetic one — the traditional natural loofahs — people have used them on their faces. And I’ve seen this in my practice. It is a physical exfoliant that’s getting rid of dead skin cells physically. But the skin of your face is much thinner and it can be extremely irritating and aggressive. Not to mention the fact that many people don’t clean this. And bacteria can build up, water can be stuck in there, it can get moldy, gross, and just not necessarily the best thing.

Number three, now this is not the complete devil. There are moments when it can be useful, but this is not something I recommend — every day makeup remover.

MEL ROBBINS: She’s coming after the makeup wipes, everybody.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: But I prefaced it — not every day. Not most days, definitely. Maybe once a week. It’s like this is reserved as your SOS by your bedside. If you had a night out and you’re too tired to wash your face, at least you’re guaranteeing that you’re trying to show up for yourself and get that makeup off your face.

MEL ROBBINS: What is the downside to basically scrubbing? I literally scrub my makeup off with one of those things. Like I am trying to get bits off a pan that is burnt to it.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Think of it this way. Imagine an orange, right? And it has all these tiny little pits that are pores. Now let’s cover that orange with foundation.

MEL ROBBINS: Yep. Whatever.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Tone, foundation, orange. Okay. You take a makeup wipe and you clean that orange. What are you doing?

MEL ROBBINS: You’re ramming it into the pores.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And what’s happened is that when you look at this orange, it might have shades of orange come through, but you’ve really just kept the stuff in the pores. So you haven’t gotten rid of anything. You’ve just smeared it across the board.

MEL ROBBINS: And you feel like you’ve gotten rid of it because it’s all right on the thing. But the truth is, you’re right. I wake up in the morning and —

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: There’s probably a little residue on that pillow, too.

MEL ROBBINS: And my eye makeup is smeared underneath my eyes. You’re right.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And it’s funny — I’ve been guilty of this. There are nights when I haven’t washed my face. So no one’s perfect. But in your 20s and 30s, it’s not that big a deal. Once you turn 40, if you fall asleep with makeup, you look like the Crypt Keeper overnight. The next day, it’s like your skin quality goes to crap. You can’t bounce back as fast. You see the impact immediately.

And so I think being in the habit of actually washing your face is huge. And makeup wipes — again, there is a certain subset of the population that turns to makeup wipes. Maybe they have a disability. Something is better than nothing. And that’s why I said they’re not —

MEL ROBBINS: Or you’re on a plane.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Fantastic.

MEL ROBBINS: Or it’s a late night, fantastic.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: But if it’s your main way of washing your face, no. That’s why I had to preface the makeup wipes. Now, this is also another one. If you’re a child of the 90s — no strips.

MEL ROBBINS: No strips.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Now, this is going to give you temporary results, but it’s not going to give you long term change. And it’s very visually appealing because you feel like you got something out. But the problem with nose strips is that visual instant gratification does not equal long term results.

And I’m just going to hyper focus on that sentence because we like the fact that we take out the most superficial layer of our pores. But it’s an extremely aggressive movement. And over time, if you keep doing it, you’re going to stretch your pores. And you’re probably going to buy yourself a bigger problem over time in terms of your texture and how your pores show up.

MEL ROBBINS: What kind of problem can it lead to?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Textural changes, it makes your pores more apparent. Your pores can start filling up faster again because it’s just getting rid of that superficial pore.

MEL ROBBINS: Now I’m having to use it again to get it out as you’re filling up fast. This sounds terrible.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And this is where a salicylic acid cleanser can be helpful to help to minimize that buildup. Instead of something that’s giving you an instant gratification, like a cheap dopamine hit.

Understanding Actives: Vitamin C, Retinol, and More

MEL ROBBINS: You use the word “actives.” So let’s talk more about them. Things like vitamin C, retinol, niacinamide, hydroxy acid. Who should use this stuff and who should not?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay. So actives are very important to help to support your skin overall, depending on what your goals are. But I just want to preface one thing again — it doesn’t mean that they are miracle ingredients. So understanding what each one does is very important for you to know if you want it in your routine.

But let’s start with vitamin C. I think vitamin C has a lot of marketing around it. The food industry often trickles into the beauty industry.

MEL ROBBINS: But I don’t know what it does.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: No, exactly. And I think vitamin C —

MEL ROBBINS: I put it on my face and I don’t know what it does.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay, vitamin C. Most people, a lot of people can benefit from it.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay, what does it do?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It’s going to help with your overall tone of your skin.

MEL ROBBINS: Meaning it’ll make it firmer?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Skin color. It’s a great question. And it’s funny because I used to even be confused by what “tone” meant. It means your skin color.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, can I ask a question about that? So if you’re like a pale zombie like me who turns red all the —

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It might not necessarily be the best thing for you. We’ll talk about the types of vitamin C. But vitamin C helps with brown spots, discoloration, yes.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It also helps with collagen production. You need vitamin C to produce collagen, but it also has antioxidant protection. So it’s going to help to protect your skin from the environmental stressors that can cause free radicals that cause your collagen to break down early. So it is a very powerful ingredient that has a huge track record and it’s a great one to have in your routine.

But vitamin C is a category. There’s the active form of vitamin C known as ascorbic acid, and then there’s a whole inactive side to vitamin C.

MEL ROBBINS: So we may be buying something that says “vitamin C” that’s not active —

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yes.

MEL ROBBINS: — thinking it’s active.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yes. How do we know? This is where understanding who you’re buying from, understanding the education that the brand puts out, understanding the different forms — just educating yourself, not to gain a PhD, but to know enough to be dangerous, to understand: can I use this to help myself?

MEL ROBBINS: So you use active vitamin C for tone, for brown skin.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: You can use both. Both of them help with all of these issues. But if you’re someone who thinks you have sensitive skin and your skin’s very reactive, I probably wouldn’t tell you to use the active form.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Because it’s much more pungent — it has a stronger punch.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And so I’d probably tell you, go for the inactive form of vitamin C. What about retinol?

MEL ROBBINS: Everybody’s talking about retinol. I see teenagers buying products with retinol in it. What is retinol?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Retinol is the crown jewel of active ingredients. It is a vitamin A derivative.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay.

Retinol vs. Retinoids: Consistency Over Intensity

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And as a prescription it is known as tretinoin, a retinoid. Over the counter it’s called a retinol. Now, like vitamin C has an inactive form, retinol is the inactive form and the prescription is the active form. But this category of vitamin A is meant to help to build thicker skin, to promote collagen production, to help regulate how your cells turn over. So a teenager would use it originally for acne, like blackheads and whiteheads, to minimize how it sticks. And then we realize it has long term longevity benefits. So it became a staple for the anti-aging world. And it has a huge track record of clinical data to support it.

But one thing that I think people get wrong about retinols and retinoids is that stronger is better.

MEL ROBBINS: I burnt my face doing this.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: That is wrong because you are going to just — it’s better to be consistent over time than to go wrong and strong.

MEL ROBBINS: “Wrong and strong” gal. Dr. Idriss, I got it. The tretinoin thing or whatever it’s called. I looked like a lizard that had red skin within a week because I probably over applied and then I just stopped doing it altogether.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Exactly. You got dissuaded.

MEL ROBBINS: Yes.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So it’s about consistency over intensity. I would rather you pick the inactive form at its lightest concentration over the counter and use it five nights a week and maybe use the prescription once and have a healthy, happy skin state. Because that inflammation that you’re going to cause, let’s say you’re doing this every week, long term, it’s not going to benefit you as you age. And let’s say you just did it once — you got zero benefit out of that. You’ve just been traumatized completely.

And so I don’t believe in trying to push for a higher concentration. It’s about what are you using most nights of the week and you’re able to hold onto without inflaming your skin.

Hyaluronic Acid: Do You Really Need It?

MEL ROBBINS: Talk to me about hyaluronic — I can never say this word — hyaluronic acid.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Hyaluronic acid. So this was all the rage, even four or five years ago, where you saw it on every beauty brand mass marketing campaign. And it’s funny because when it comes to the beauty industry, the biggest barrier is marketing and education, so that consumers hear ingredients and they think, “Oh, I need that.”

MEL ROBBINS: Yes.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It is a humectant that attracts water. A humectant means an ingredient that likes water and attracts it. So what’s going to happen? It’s going to give you more of a hydrating effect, a plumping effect. You’re going to look a little bit bouncier. It’s going to help with the fine lines.

MEL ROBBINS: Is that a good thing, to look bouncier?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Why not?

MEL ROBBINS: Okay, well, I don’t know.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: I don’t know. I don’t want to look the way to that.

MEL ROBBINS: That’s true. I don’t either.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: I’d rather be bouncy. Okay. But it’s not the end all, be all and best humectant on the market — number one. Number two, it is in quite literally eight out of 10 products that you’re probably using.

MEL ROBBINS: Oh, okay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So do you need to have it as a dedicated product in your roundup to complicate your life and to add more stress and to add more time to your routine? Probably not.

MEL ROBBINS: I love how you’re simplifying all this, Dr. Idriss, because it just comes back to that three-step routine and asking yourself, “What am I not happy about? What is it that I’d like to see an improvement in? What is it that I want to address?” And then educating yourself about the right thing to add. And I’m also hearing — go low and —

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Slow. Low and slow, low and slow.

MEL ROBBINS: On this. You don’t want to step on the pedal and burn your skin like Mel Robbins did.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: But it’s kind of like dieting, right? Do we go into a diet and say, “I’m going to lose 80 pounds?” No.

MEL ROBBINS: Yes. And then you don’t.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: But then you don’t, and then you get dissuaded and you feel like it’s not for me. So let’s focus on small wins, baby steps, things that we know we’re not going to fail ourselves by, and really try to get the ball rolling in the right direction before we start to be too gung ho about the whole process.

Understanding Sensitive vs. Reactive Skin

MEL ROBBINS: Dr. Idriss, let’s talk about sensitive skin. 70% of adults worldwide say they have sensitive skin — redness, irritation, stinging, often from skincare products. And they assume, “Okay, well, that’s all that it is.” What does sensitive skin really mean? And as a dermatologist, Dr. Idriss, what could be driving the sensitivity in the skin?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So 7 out of 10 people say they have sensitive skin, but the reality is people who have true sensitivities is much lower — at 1 out of 10.

MEL ROBBINS: Wait, 1 out of 10 people have true sensitivities?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay. So the perception of what sensitive skin is as a skin type is often misplaced, because what they’re describing is not a skin condition, but a skin state. Their skin is very reactive. They have reactive skin. But true sensitivities is — I’m making it up — “I cannot tolerate a preservative. And when I have this preservative on my skin, I get a crazy rash that’s itchy, and I flare up, and it lasts for days, and I have to go on medication to calm it down.”

MEL ROBBINS: So it’s more like an allergy.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It becomes kind of like an allergy.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, I love that. But you could have reactive skin for a number of reasons.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: You can have reactive skin. You can just be a reactive human. Most white people are reactive. You’re going to see redness come up on your skin. Most white people have that reactivity in their skin. If I wash my face, I get redder, and then it calms down after a few minutes. That doesn’t mean I’m sensitive.

MEL ROBBINS: Why does it get redder?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Because of the rubbing. Your blood flow — you see it more. Your melanin’s low. It’s more obvious. But that being said, most people don’t actually have real sensitivities, and it’s that skin state. And so when you start seeing stinging, redness, and burning, especially from products that never bothered you before, it’s the result of long-term, probably chronic inflammation that hasn’t been fully addressed, where then you develop a real sensitivity over time.

So when you have this reactive kind of skin and you know your skin is very easy to flare up, the first goal that you should always have is to calm your skin down again. Going back to the basics — focus on a basic routine that you know your skin can tolerate, that keeps your skin calm. And that I think is probably the hardest thing to do, because when people get reactive, even for two or three days, they start compounding things and products, trying to fix it without letting their skin do its thing to calm down and heal.

So step one, if your skin is very sensitive or reactive, is to stop everything. And this freaks people out. I’m like, “You’re not going to melt. You’re going to survive this for a week or two.” Everything from skincare to makeup — you’re going to wash your face with water. And if you really need something, if you really need an occlusive of some sort, you can use Vaseline. But you have to calm the skin before you can correct it.

And then step two is very boring and very slow. But you rebuild your barrier slowly. So you first incorporate a moisturizer and you let that work for you for a few days and you make sure that you’re not reacting to that. Once you have that green check mark and green light, then you incorporate a cleanser. You see how your skin does with the cleanser and the moisturizer over a few days, and then it can allow you to sort of pivot and see in which direction you’re going.

But that puts the control back in your hands — that you’re not just living this crazy life of reactivity and trying to calm it with this and use that, and then it stings more and it gets more inflamed and it’s this never-ending cycle. It just cuts it, resets it, and allows you to restart in a very systematic and academic way so you can pinpoint where are the shortcomings and how can I pivot.

MEL ROBBINS: So if you’re dealing with reactive skin — take a step back, calm down, stop everything. Start with a moisturizer that’s not got active stuff in it because we’ve got to rebuild the barrier, and then we can slowly start to add in a cleanser and do some of the basics to give our skin a break.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: You’re a very good listener. Yes.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, because I want to learn. I want to make sure you’re getting this.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: That’s exactly it.

MEL ROBBINS: Because I think I’ve overcomplicated everything my whole life.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: You and most people.

The Four Types of Acne Explained

MEL ROBBINS: Let’s talk about acne. It affects up to 50 million people a year in the US alone. And I understand that there are different types of acne. So can you explain the different types of acne and how someone can tell what they’re dealing with?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yes, for sure. Acne is not just a teenage problem. I want to start off by saying that I have so many women who are 28, 35, 44 who get acne, who are like, “I don’t understand. I’m not a teenager anymore. Wasn’t I past this stage of my life?”

But there are four subtypes. One — and we’re going to start with hormonal acne, because I mentioned these women. Hormonal acne is driven by hormonal fluctuations that come and go. And because your skin is your biggest visible organ that has a feedback system, it’s going to show up on your skin, especially due to androgen sensitivity. So testosterone-like hormones and patterns are key here. With hormonal acne, you tend to notice it mostly along the jawline, where you get these deep cystic pimples along your jawline in a cyclical fashion around your period. And so that clinical history and the physical distribution usually points towards hormonal acne.

Then you have inflammatory acne — number two. Inflammatory acne you can kind of think of as that classic red pimple pustule on your face, coming and going, a little haphazard on your cheeks, your nose, your forehead, chin, et cetera. And it is often triggered by over-exfoliation, harsh products, barrier damage, people who’ve overstripped their skin, harsh winters. Even if you have done nothing, it can cause it. That inflammatory acne, if not under control or taken care of, can lead to deeper cystic acne, which is number three.

The deep, painful pimples and nodules that can leave really bad scarring — this is one where it is a spectrum. There is a continuation, but you can also just go straight to cystic acne on your own, just as a predisposition. And what breaks my heart is — I’m all for body positivity — but when you see people with really bad cystic acne just trying to use a pimple patch, when you could try to treat it to minimize the scarring left behind, it’s huge. And it can change your overall confidence. It can change how you show up in social settings. It can change how you present yourself. And it really has a very strong mental connection.

And then you have number four — comedonal acne. Comedones are blackheads and whiteheads. So you can have a little bit of everything, of course, but it’s nice when you try to pinpoint what is the biggest root cause and start treating it there so you can start to see the improvements.

Why Adult Acne Happens

MEL ROBBINS: Dr. Idriss, why does adult acne happen and what is different about it when you suddenly have acne in your 30s, 40s, or 50s versus being a teenager?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Because your hormones are not stabilized — they’re fluctuating. So you are a hormonal up and down. Compound that with the fact that as we age, our cells turn over every 28 days or so. But with each decade you can add 10 days. So in your 30s it might be 38 days, in your 40s it might be 48 days. So your cells are not differentiating as fast. So now we have inflammation, now we have slower cell turnover, now we have hormonal fluctuation. And so we tend to be more sensitive to it as you’re going through those cycles of life.

Sneaky Triggers That Cause Acne Flare-Ups

MEL ROBBINS: What are some of the sneaky triggers that can cause a flare-up of acne that people don’t even realize are the cause of acne?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So other than the basic ones — hair products. Hair products can cause acne, can sometimes be very, very oily and can clog pores. So you have to be careful in what you’re using. Touching your face — not just with your hands, but even through your phone. When’s the last time you really cleaned your phone?

MEL ROBBINS: Oh, God.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And making sure your glasses that are sitting on the bridge —

Understanding Melasma: Hormonal Pigmentation and Its Emotional Impact

MEL ROBBINS: I always get stuff underneath my glasses.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Especially if you’re wearing makeup. So things that are coming into contact with your face that are not just your hands. And this goes even into the makeup world. Have we washed our brushes? Are we washing them regularly? Most people are not. They’re using an old beauty blender that’s been around. And so it doesn’t mean that you’re dirty, but it just means these are things that we have to take into consideration when we’re thinking about our face. Heat and sweating definitely can also impact. And then diet, I think diet, like I said, is part of the picture. It’s not the whole picture. But you can support better skin with a better diet.

MEL ROBBINS: Dr. Idriss, you say that one of the most common things that people come into your clinical practice seeking help for is melasma. What is that?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: I studied it in theory. I studied it in medical school, I learned about it in residency, and then I experienced it when I went through IVF. But melasma is hormonal pigmentation that is driven by your hormones. And it usually appears on your face in patches. Sometimes they’re discrete and sometimes they’re bigger, usually on your cheeks or your forehead.

And they can get really emphasized with your pregnancy, going through IVF, with your period, going through menopause, life stress — you cannot predict it. And so with melasma, it’s so tricky because the gold standard is treating it with a prescription medication like hydroquinone. But you can’t be on hydroquinone forever in perpetuity. You have to take breaks when you use hydroquinone.

MEL ROBBINS: And if you take a break, does it come back?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Exactly. So your over the counter routine has to be geared towards sustaining how you produce pigment so that the prescriptions can really have hopefully more impact on a longer term, so you’re not always running back to them.

Now, in recent years, there have been recent discoveries like oral medications that can help with deeper melasma, like dermal melasma. Not everyone is a candidate, but it’s called tranexamic acid. If you’re prone to blood clots, it’s not for you, but if you’ve never had one, it can change how you see yourself.

And the reason I’m telling you this is when my melasma flared, I felt like a crypt keeper overnight. And I was 34 or 35. And I remember my younger cousin, this hot young girl from Geneva, comes over and she’s like, “Hi. Ooh.” And that was her reaction. I was like, “What? I just had a baby.” And she goes, “That’s your first reaction?” She goes, “Yeah, but what happened to your face?” And it hit me like a dagger to my heart, because I felt bad about myself.

And so when you have melasma, there’s this constant feeling that you need to hide your face. And it’s a very heavy feeling. That sounds so silly and vain, but the repercussion is so much deeper — that I didn’t want to take a picture with my baby. I don’t have any pictures of my daughter when she was the first couple of weeks old. So sad, because I didn’t want to see my face.

And so I think when you have conditions like this, it really does amplify that skin is not just a cosmetic organ, it’s a whole person issue. And melasma is such a visual of that, that for me, it’s one of those conditions that I really do try to help people through. Not just in my practice, not just through my skincare routine, but educating online so that they know that they have tools at their disposal to help themselves.

The Two Key Ages When Your Skin Really Changes

MEL ROBBINS: All right, for the moment I’ve been waiting for personally, I want to talk about aging skin.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay.

MEL ROBBINS: You said there are two key ages when your skin really changes. What is going on biologically beneath the skin that causes these spikes with your skin change?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: The first thing is understanding that aging, it’s not a linear process. There are moments in your life when you age faster, there are moments in your life when you age slower. And understanding that timing and having your finger on the beat of that pulse helps because it allows you to know what to expect.

Okay, so everything I’m going to tell you is not to breed insecurity or scare you, but it’s so that you go into it feeling more prepared, less intimidated, et cetera. So the first peak is really in your late 20s, early 30s, where over the course of six months, you notice something shifts and you can’t quite put your finger on it. And I think today’s generation is much more attuned to it because of social media, because of Zoom, because of all the screen time that they have and selfies that they take — they see it faster.

MEL ROBBINS: And what are they seeing? In your late 20s and 30s, what do your patients come in and kind of report to you?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: You’re going from a growth phase where you’re producing collagen in your teens and early twenties, to the beginning of a maintenance phase. And starting in your mid-20s, you start to lose around 1% of collagen a year. Okay, so what they describe is very subtle and not really well defined, but they notice a flattening on the sides of their face, like something looks a little flatter. They don’t really know what they’re pointing out to, but they look. “I don’t know what it is, but I just look different.”

The second peak is a little bit more dramatic. And I’ve noticed this myself — I’m going to be 42 in a week, but this happened at 38, where over the course of a month, suddenly I thought I developed jowls. And I saw them. And it’s because the bony and structural foundation of your face, your bone structure, what’s holding your face, starts to get thinner. And for me, it also coincided after breastfeeding and having babies. And something shifted in my structure, and I remember walking by that elevator being like, “Oof, what is that?” But it was good and very humbling to feel it because it allowed me to understand what my patients are going through.

But your facial bone remodeling, that is actively happening. It’s like a scaffold, right? Think of a scaffold holding up a structure. As it starts to get smaller, what’s happening around it — your volume, your fat pads, your skin — starts to shift and fall.

MEL ROBBINS: Yeah, it’s hanging there.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It starts hanging, yes.

MEL ROBBINS: I’ve hit that one.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: I’ve hit it, too. But this is where bone health matters, by the way. This whole concept of weightlifting and taking care of your bones is huge for women. And the first place you really start to see it is your face.

MEL ROBBINS: Shut up! So I can get rid of my jowls by lifting weights?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: I think when you really build a strong bone structure and really make sure that you are focusing on your bone health, you’re not necessarily going to get rid of them, but it’s going to make sure that you stay more intact. Now genetics come into play, yes. But you can try to help yourself.

Okay, now, this is the third peak that has been scientifically proven, and the actual age that they say, I think, is 44. There’s a biomolecular shift, and your cells age faster at this age. And what I hear from my patients, time and time again, is, “I’ve gone to sleep and I woke up and I don’t recognize myself,” and it’s happening, and “Should I get a facelift?” And it’s like panic, panic, panic, panic, panic. On top of the fact that they’re probably in perimenopause and their estrogen levels are starting to decline. And estrogen is really a hormone that helps with skin thickness. It helps with hydration, collagen production, oil production. So as the levels start to go down, your skin starts to feel thinner. Plus the inherent DNA change that happens in both men and women, and it’s like all hell breaks loose.

MEL ROBBINS: Yes.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And then there’s a fourth peak that happens in our early 60s where at this point, I think we’ve come to a better understanding of who we are and how we’re aging. It’s something that’s not as dramatic because it’s not so sudden as at 44. But you have your bones, you have your volume, you have your skin quality — all three of them are kind of shifting at the same time. And there’s another little accelerated burst in the aging process.

The Emotional Side of Aging Skin

MEL ROBBINS: As a dermatologist, I want to know — because I’ve had this conversation with so many friends — one day you look in the mirror and you think, “Oh my God, who is that?” How do you best deal with the emotional side of aging? Sagging, texture changes, and this recognition that it just feels like it’s out of your control?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: This is probably, for me, one of the most important questions that you ask, because hopefully we all have long lives and our skin is so tied to our visible identity that we don’t often think of the opposite — of how our skin affects our mental health. And as we get older, things shift relatively fast.

Give yourself some grace. It’s not because you didn’t do. It’s not because you didn’t use. It’s not because you did. Life was going to happen. But what can we do now to support ourselves? Having that sort of understanding really does lower that sort of energy around the aging process. And then just being open to learning about what is at your disposal — from over the counter skincare to maybe prescription, to maybe something minimally invasive, to maybe something more extreme. And what is it that you want to do to help support yourself?

Because when you help yourself, it’s not like you need this to be confident. The goal is hopefully you’re confident with yourself. And this is a cherry on top. But when you support yourself, it makes you feel better in how you show up for the world. And taking away that judgment — even though you had that judgment prior — but once you live through something, you see it through a different lens and you realize that there are ways that you can help yourself without changing who you are and still be who you are.

What Causes Jowls — And What Can You Actually Do About Them?

MEL ROBBINS: I love that. What do we do about these sagging jowls? Why do we develop them? And what the heck can we do about them?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: The dreaded jowl.

MEL ROBBINS: I hate these things.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Even the word sucks.

MEL ROBBINS: I hate them. It’s like skin purses hanging. It’s like, where did these pockets come from? I’m not a squirrel that needs to store nuts in the winter. So I don’t need this extra skin. What do I do?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay, so first, it’s important — it’s not a skincare failure. It’s not because you didn’t have a good skincare routine. It’s not because you didn’t wear sunscreen correctly. It’s a structural problem.

MEL ROBBINS: Yeah, it feels like a face failure.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It’s a structural issue.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And so the four things that lead to jowls. Your bone, your structural bone changes — that scaffold that’s holding your face up is slowly disintegrating. And so what’s happening from there, the fat pads in our face — and you have many of them — they start to redistribute and drop, in addition to the fact that they shrink. And then on top of it, the surface, your skin, almost like the fabric of a couch, doesn’t have anywhere to go. Plus it’s losing that collagen and elasticity, so it tends to just drape around it.

So all of those three reasons, compounded with potentially a fourth — which is repetitive muscle movement. There are some people who talk a lot like this, or pull their teeth, and you could see their lower teeth when they speak. That emphasizes it.

And so that is something that I think is really important that you understand, so that you don’t go buy, for example, a firming cream — it’s not going to do anything. It’s not going to do anything. And so at some point, you’re going to have to know where it’s like a skincare failure or an anatomic failure. But if you get them and if they’re affecting you from an emotional perspective, and if they’re making you feel less confident and you’re thinking about it more often than not —

MEL ROBBINS: I am. And here’s the thing — what happened for me is I started to notice it, and I obviously have a public career, but since we all have cell phones, everybody’s seeing their face all the time. And so you just start to notice. What is this sagging thing that’s happening? And now that I know that it’s structural and I can’t buy a cream, I’m depressed.

So now I need something else. But I started talking about it with my sister-in-law, Christine, who’s my business partner. And then Kris Jenner gets the most incredible facelift I’ve ever seen. I talked to my sister-in-law, Christine, about it. I now have my entire feed on social media of those plans — dermal, whatever the heck it is, facelift things — plus all these women trying to teach you how to massage with your knuckles straight up. I even tried the face massage. I’m like, I am so not disciplined. I don’t think I could do this for two years straight. Does this stuff work? What do I do? What are we doing?

Non-Surgical Options for Aging Skin

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay, I know you’re probably stressing yourself. Okay. So first thing is, at least you know that it’s bothering you. A lot of people don’t realize that. And they don’t know what it is, but they’re just getting angrier or more upset. So at least you know it’s bothering you.

MEL ROBBINS: Yes.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: When you know it’s bothering you, you know, okay, what are my options? Extreme is surgery, but there’s a whole slew of things you could try to do for yourself if you do not want surgery or if it’s not for you.

MEL ROBBINS: Let’s talk about the things that are not certain.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: We can absolutely talk about those things.

MEL ROBBINS: So what are the options? What am I doing?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay, starting with what you’ve already done.

MEL ROBBINS: Yes.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Your facial massaging. What you’re doing when you’re massaging your face is moving lymphatic fluid around. So on the margin, it’s going to minimize that puff that’s accumulating in gravity dependent areas. Is it going to make you look like a fetus? Probably not. So again, understand what you’re doing and why, so you know how to continue.

MEL ROBBINS: So it’s not changing. When I take my knuckles or that L shaped thing and I do one of these things, and I do this, then people are like this and do all this and they’re like — and then you look like this.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It’s a temporary improvement.

MEL ROBBINS: And so I might be emptying the bags of some of the things in there, but they’re not — the extra skin isn’t going anywhere. It’s a structural issue.

The Five Categories of Aging

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It’s a structural issue. Exactly. So this is not me saying that it’s useless. If you look better before a red carpet event, of course do it. But if you’re doing it thinking you’re getting your skin to get tighter — no, you’re not. You’re just not. So that’s not going to help.

So that’s that. Beyond skincare and into the office, there’s a whole slew of things. And before we get into the details of every single treatment, what I tell my patients is when you think of aging, there’s like five or six categories that you can think of that you can actually help with.

One is the lines that are built in on your face that are due to repetitive movement. That’s Botox. But Botox can also change how you speak with your expression. So if you pull down, it can help to minimize that pull, to minimize the look of the jowl.

Two is, where are we from a volume standpoint? Do we have a lot of volume but we’re sagging? And again, I’m generalizing — there’s always shades of gray. Or do we have volume but we’re sinking now because it’s kind of like going in and we’re caving in. And this is where fillers come into play. Not to fill, not to create new proportion — and that’s where people get into trouble. But when you use fillers very, very conservatively to keep the proportion of your face intact overall, and it’s not symmetry, because symmetry doesn’t exist, you can look more cohesive from a volume perspective. But that alone — volume fillers or stimulants — are not going to necessarily get rid of the fine lines that are etched on your face. Different problem, different solution. I don’t treat my depression with an antibiotic. Same thing.

Then you have your skin tone. Do we have brown spots? Do we have redness? And this, for me, I’m very passionate about, because it’s the one place where people can take control and ownership over their skin tone by using the right products at home first. And if someone comes in and tells me they want a laser treatment but they’re not doing anything for their skin, I look at them and I say, “Do you go to the dentist for a dental cleaning but you don’t brush your teeth every day?” No, no one does that. If you’re not brushing your teeth, you’re not really going for — you’re not getting a dental cleaning once a year. So a laser is your dental cleaning, and everyday maintenance is your most important part.

MEL ROBBINS: Got it.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Number four is your overall elasticity and texture. Do we have acne scars? Are we losing that? There are treatments in office that can be done to try to strengthen the foundation of your skin.

MEL ROBBINS: Really, like to get rid of that creepy old couch saggy ass thing a little bit.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: It’s not going to get rid of it. Again, realistic expectations. But we have radio frequency energies, we have ultrasound energy, heat based devices. But it’s a tipping point — you don’t want to overdo it and get rid of fat. So you have to find the right provider who understands your structure, where you’re at, and what your wants are for down the road. So you’re mapping the arc of your life. How do you want to age? And then we’re plugging and playing.

And then you have, like I said, your bone structure. And then there is this whole world of bioregenerative — what can we use from our own body to stimulate our own skin to the best of its ability?

MEL ROBBINS: I don’t know what —

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: There’s PRP and PRF from our blood, and these have growth factors, but —

MEL ROBBINS: Growth factors — is that that vampire facial thing?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Yes, but growth factors, it’s interesting. Growth factors are like fertilizer. It’s going to stimulate as good as the environment that you put it in. It’s not always a home run. And I tell patients very honestly, the biggest thing you risk losing is money. But you’re never going to know until you try.

Then you have your fat, where through fat you can revolumize. But the more interesting part about fat is that you can get fat stem cells. And that’s like a seed for plants — when you plant the seed, something is going to grow. And with fat stem cells, you can really regenerate tissue in your face, in your underarms, on your neck, your chest, your hands, your knees. I’ve done it all over. But it’s something that you can help yourself with. It’s not something you do all the time, maybe two or three times a decade. But it’s something that, let’s say you’re in your early 40s, you’re hitting this perimenopause, you start to help your body regenerate as everything else is declining over time. Will you look more cohesive where maybe you can push back surgery if your structure allows? And let’s say you do want surgery — does it give you better results because your whole ecosystem looks better for you?

MEL ROBBINS: Got it.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So there are many layers to this onion. And it’s not, “I’m going to get a laser treatment for my volume.” Lasers are not going to give you the volume because it’s not the problem that it’s addressing. And that’s something that’s often missed in cosmetics, where people think, “Oh, it’s a magical laser or a magical device or a magical injectable.” But the reality is you have to understand — again — expectations meeting reality.

Boosting Collagen: The Three Best Ways

MEL ROBBINS: Wow, that was so helpful. So where does collagen fit into all of this? Can you boost it? And what are the two best ways if you can?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: That’s a great question. So people think fine lines, wrinkles — they think collagen.

MEL ROBBINS: Yes.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: And collagen is the main structural protein in your skin. But we know starting in our late 20s, it starts to decline at a rate of around 1% a year. And this is due to internal changes, sun, hormones, maybe even inflammation.

But I think when you’re trying to simplify, there are three ways that you can think of boosting your collagen.

Starting with number one and the most trend worthy — collagen supplements and diet. There’s confusion in marketing. Diet is very important. It’s going to support your collagen production, it is going to help your collagen production. And if you have a very well balanced diet, you do not need the supplement. But just taking a collagen supplement and expecting it to go straight to your skin for good skin — you’re misleading yourself. And it’s not a necessity. It’s very expensive. It can be a whole budget on its own. So really I would focus on the well balanced diet where you’re getting that protein intake, you’re getting all of that to create that foundation for your skin. And if you want to add the collagen supplements, great. They’re not going to hurt you, but they’re not going to be the only answer to help yourself.

MEL ROBBINS: Got it. Okay.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Number two, topical skincare. This works with consistency and maintenance. It does not work as a one off. So being consistent with a retinol can stimulate collagen production over time. Protecting your skin with sunscreen is not going to make collagen today, but over time when you look back, you will look better. And so having those maintenance points in your skincare can help.

And number three, in office procedures. If skincare is maintenance, in office procedures are like little accelerators. Microneedling can boost a little bit your collagen production and your cell turnover. Certain laser treatments can help you help yourself. So there are little ways that you can help yourself through outside interventions to keep that collagen boosted over time.

Injectables: Botox and Fillers Explained

MEL ROBBINS: Let’s talk about injectables. Who are they for?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: That’s a very good question. I think it depends on the problem that we described. Do we have lines that are built in? Do we have volume issues? What are we trying to achieve through them?

I think the reason why they’ve all got a bad rep — and injectables being Botox and fillers altogether — is not one single reason. I think it’s multifactorial. I’m a provider myself, and I think as someone in this field, providers do play a role. I think patients also come in expecting this instant gratification culture where more is more and they want to see the results right away.

Botox is going to help you by minimizing how much you’re moving your muscles. The goal of Botox is not to freeze you in perpetuity. I’m not trying to embalm you in Botox. And so when you understand that, you start to see Botox through the lens of, “Oh, it’s giving my face moments of pause throughout the year.” So again, instead of aging more like this, I’m aging more like that.

MEL ROBBINS: Yeah.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Where instead of pulling down constantly, maybe it will help me change how I just move so I don’t keep pulling, because I know my jowls bother me.

MEL ROBBINS: Yeah.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: So that’s where Botox comes in. And side note, that’s why I personally have an issue with the preventative Botox aspects of life. Because what are we preventing? The lines are going to form. And so when people have no lines on their face and they want to start Botox, they’re coming to me from a fear based motivation. And that for me is a sign that they shouldn’t be doing it. Because when you do anything out of fear, you’re not doing it for the right reasons. And starting too young is going to push you into this world where you think you need to be frozen. So I don’t believe in it. And I usually tell young women — what’s too young?

MEL ROBBINS: You think? Because I see this too, with the 20 somethings that I know, wrenching up their forehead. I think, “I need to —” I’m like, what?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: I mean, I think it’s a great question that comes up and it’s rightfully asked. But it’s hard to pinpoint a number. I’ve seen 20 year olds who look really old and I’ve seen 60 year olds who look really young. So I’m a little skewed.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, you see 100 patients a week and you’ve been doing this for —

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: When the lines don’t go away and they’re really bugging you, that’s when you can start.

MEL ROBBINS: Gotcha.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Fillers, like I said, it’s a different category. The goal is to keep the proportion of your face intact. And when it’s done very, very subtly, you shouldn’t be able to notice it. And it’s not like — oh, and how often are you doing it? How much are you injecting? Where are you injecting? Are you injecting to try to catch up with time, or are you injecting to play with where you’re at right now? And so I think having that understanding is finding that provider that you fully trust.

Advice for Those Struggling With Their Skin Confidence

MEL ROBBINS: I love that. If the person listening is in a moment in their life where their confidence is in the gutter because of the state of their skin, or one of their kids is in the gutter confidence wise because of the state of their skin, I would love to have you speak to them and tell them what a few simple things are that they can do this week to just feel better. Even if their skin is not there yet, is not going to change overnight — it’s going to change over time.

Three Simple Things You Can Do Today

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Okay, so if you’re listening and you’re feeling out of sorts because of how your skin looks, your confidence is not going to come from changing your skin first. It’s going to come by changing your relationship to your skin first. So do not start by trying to fix everything all at once because you’re going to open the floodgates and it’s never going to amount to anything.

So three simple things that you can do today is one, simplify your skincare routine. Simplify, simplify so you can be consistent. And even if that’s just “I’m going to wash my face.” Start with that. Small changes give you a sense of control and you start to feel better.

Two, throw your magnifying mirror out. I cannot say this enough. Nobody is looking at you under a 10x zoom. Throw it out. It is causing more harm than good. And just start looking at yourself at a distance where people look at you and how you are seen and how you see yourself under the light that you normally see yourself. But a magnifying mirror is probably your biggest enemy.

And number three, do something for yourself. Even if it’s not skincare related. Maybe it’s wear mascara, put on a red lip, wear the sexy jeans that make you feel good. Do something for yourself that helps you feel put together like you’re wearing an iron shirt. I think those three little things can cause automatic boosts of confidence and really allow you to start feeling like you’re in control so you can make a change and a shift for yourself.

Your Skin Is Not a Problem to Solve

MEL ROBBINS: I love that. Thank you. If you had to distill everything that you have taught us today into a very simple takeaway, what’s the number one thing, Dr. Idriss, that the person listening or watching on YouTube should remember and do after listening to this?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: If you’re going to take away one thing from listening to this today, it’s that your skin is not a problem to solve. It is a relationship to build. And you have to get to know your skin, understand the feedback, understand the signals, and hopefully gain a better understanding of what’s at your disposal. So that when you’re treating yourself, your expectations are met and you’re not feeling like you’re in a never ending cycle of nothingness.

Because ultimately it’s consistency that matters most. You want to show up without shame. And I think telling people that you care about how your skin looks can sometimes be shameful. And you want to care for yourself without that shame. And I think understanding the basics will always serve you better than the transformation.

Parting Words: Be Kind to Yourself

MEL ROBBINS: I am so thrilled that you came. I learned so much. Dr. Idriss, what are your parting words?

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Be kind to yourself. In the process, I think life is going to happen. Don’t beat yourself up, but also be willing to change your own perspectives and have an open mind when it comes to yourself and the aging process. Because what I’ve seen in my life and in my practice and also in my own personal experiences, more often than not, we are the ones who stand in our own way.

So I think this is something that may sound superficial, in vain, but really, just be really kind to yourself from the inside out and the outside in.

MEL ROBBINS: “Your skin is not a problem to solve. It’s a relationship to build.” And I am grateful that you have taught us, using the research and the facts about the simple things that we can do, whether it’s sleep or taking a step back or really looking holistically, or just the three simple things that you need, identifying the issue or the thing you want to improve as you build a better relationship with yourself and your skin.

I feel more comfortable in my own skin. I feel empowered. I’m so excited by what you have taught us today. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you, thank you on behalf of myself and every single person around the world who’s going to listen to this and share this as a free resource with the people that they love.

DR. SHEREENE IDRISS: Well, I’m very grateful and thank you for allowing me the time and the space to dive in.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, you destroyed it, woman. And I also want to tell you before you leave, as your friend, I am so excited that you took the time to listen to something and to educate yourself. I learned so much. I know you did too. I have so many friends I am sending this to. I feel like we got a consultation with a world renowned dermatologist who has helped both you and me understand what we need to do to take care of the largest organ in our body and be comfortable in our skin. And how cool is that?

And as your friend, I want to be sure to tell you, in case nobody else does, that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And what you learned today and the relationship that you can build with yourself will absolutely make your life better. So I hope you take the words to heart and you do it.

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