Alastair Crooke: Israel LOSING, Charlie Kirk Truth BLOWS UP on Netanyahu (Transcript)

And they are deeply angry.

So I would say the first thing is that the genie is out of the bottle. This issue which was kept undercover, which was not in the public domain very much, has come out of the bottle and it is around and it’s not going to be put back into the bottle very easily. So that is, I think that is one of the most important things.

I think the second thing is that in a way, if you look back at that National Conservative Conference a little while ago, there was a sense that the Republicans needed to redefine themselves, the young Republicans. I mean, I’m not talking about the pro-Israeli section. But the young, if you like, the young Republicans wanted to define themselves and they had to find a way of defining themselves.

And so those like Nick Fuentes who seems to have a great, a huge support amongst the MAGA were saying very clearly, listen, this is not the time to take up weapons. It is the time to stay cool. And he said, you know, we can have maybe this small room for consensus, maybe not. It depends what happens. But he said, what is very clear is we have to defeat.

We have to destroy the people that have been antagonistic, the people that have, if you like, pushed this war. And he effectively, I mean, this is, I think, the big thing that is coming out of it that is going to become, if you like, a new enemy. They have defined a new enemy which is the very radical, violent, leaning left that they see as threatening the ones, the left that has been calling them fascists and calling them names for the spirit, not all of the left, and they’re very clear about that, but the ones that have taken this radical, aggressive line, I would call it a Manichaean line, in the sense of Manichaean, it is all black or light, dark or light. There’s nothing in between. And I think we’re going to see a much more sort of Manichaean approach from the Republicans.

Israel’s Dependence on America

This is going to have a profound effect. Why is it so important? So what if the young are changing? It means a lot because actually these are the people. We’ve heard about all of those others who were at the National Conservative Convention, some of the big donors, the Jewish donors that are calling for support saying it’s crazy to cut ourselves off from what’s happening in the Middle East.

But the point is that Israel is dependent on the United States. It is utterly dependent on the United States. Its identity is the United States. I mean, Greater Israel is the United States and Israel in many respects as they see things. And so I think that what we’ll see is that at some point Netanyahu and some of those others in power and Israel, a very divided Israel, will start peering up from below and will look around and see, you know, well, those young Americans, they’re about to assume positions of some power in the United States.

They already assume positions of influence, great influence in some cases, but they’re going to assume positions of power. And when that happens, it’s over because Netanyahu will discover that Israel has lost America.

The Broader Political Implications

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, I mean I think those are great points considering, you know, in the domestic political situation in the United States, on the Democratic Party side, you have a big base of people that aren’t even really with the Democrats anymore. I mean their approval ratings are so low and the Israel question is a huge one that has fueled that. It’s a big reason why Donald Trump won in 2024.

But that base is inaccessible now to Israel because the vast majority of them see Israel as genocidal and they oppose what Israel is doing in Gaza and anywhere else. But to have this happen now in the GOP side, the Republican side, means that the vast body politic in the United States is now opposed to Israel. And it seems like what you’re saying is that this is literally going to lead to isolation and it’s going to have consequences. What kind of consequences do you believe those will be Alastair? Because right now many people look and they see Israel just kind of out of control and doing as much as they can to you know conduct and commit as much brutality to achieve its erstwhile ends or at least its so-called stated ends?

Religious and Eschatological Dimensions

ALASTAIR CROOKE: Well yes, I’d just like to add before I leave that subject of the Republican, I mean one of the things that’s quite striking is that the Young are quite religious, are very religious and so in a sense we’re seeing something of a sort of eschatological, if you like, conflict coming out. On the one side the eschatology of Israel and of the Talmud and Torah and on the other side that of the New Testament. And so it’s giving it a new identity as well, a slightly different identity.

Israel’s Deep Division and Abandonment of Norms

When you ask the question about what is going to happen, I think it’s pretty clear. Israel is deeply, deeply divided. I mean, it’s virtually on the edge of civil war. For many Israelis, particularly the sort of more secular European liberal Israelis, the people you’d meet more in Tel Aviv and Herzliya, those people really came to Israel not to take part in what Smotrich called a war of conquest and of restoring the Israel. They came there for safety. They were leaving Europe because they didn’t feel safe. They came to Israel as a sort of place of safety and somewhere where they felt that they would be protected.

Now that’s gone, it’s gone completely. It went actually on the 7th of October, two years ago, but it’s now even more the sense that how are they going to protect themselves when they are at war with most of the Middle East? I mean, they’ve attacked, I think, six countries or six places at least in these last few weeks. You know, it was not just Gaza and the West Bank, but it was also Syria, it was Lebanon, it was Yemen, and it was Tunis. I mean, so all of these, I mean, it is a sort of maelstrom approach, if you like, the law of the jungle.

And what I think we’re seeing, which is so important, is that Israel is effectively abandoning all the norms of, if you like, politics. Not just the norms, but the laws, the institutions that regulate international politics. And also, of course, dismissing the UN Charter. It is a really deliberate, if you like, tearing up of the international structure. A deliberate tearing it up to give them room to do whatever they choose, wherever they want, whenever they want by military force.

And so it has been quite deliberate. I mean, you can see it, a breach of norms in every area. I mean just you know what was the attack on Iran about? Well there were many reasons but one of them was it showed that they could break that norm too as well as other norms. The attack on Doha is another case where they said no none of these old understandings exist anymore, they’re broken, we don’t accept them, we don’t abide by them, it’s the war of the jungle we are engaged in now and we will win because we are clever and we have an effective military force that can impose on other states.

The Missing Piece: Iran

So that’s where they have gone to. In the assumption that they can ultimately win, there is the one piece missing to this winning. And we all know what that is. It’s Iran. That is the piece that they feel is missing.

Iran has to be, if you like, normalized, one way or the other, or balkanized, and turned into a Syria of competing disparate groups, killing each other and fighting amongst themselves. I mean that was always the norm a long time ago, even Ben-Gurion talked about the desire to have the region fighting amongst itself because then it’s weak and compared with Israel, Israel would be stronger. So that was always the prospect and that is the missing part. So I think we will see a doubling down of that.

Netanyahu’s Confidence in Trump

Now what is quite apparent is, and there was an article about this just recently, that of course Netanyahu and Doma know the bad press that Israel is getting. They know what’s said in the international press. They know that they’ve lost international support quite widely. But what was said in this article, which I think is written by someone who’s well informed, was they don’t care. Netanyahu and Doma, they are not bothered.

Why are they not bothered? They should be. Why are they not bothered? For one reason, and that one reason is known as Mr. Trump. And they make this very clear.

The Economic and Social Crisis in Israel

So long we don’t give a damn what the world is saying about us, they can say what they want, we have Trump. And that’s their answer to this question. But this means we’re going to see it doubling down and they will continue to double down and they will push the boundaries as hard as they can and as far as they can in this period.

So it opens up other big questions that we have sort of avoided. It opens up the questions of why is it that the United States has not sought either to criticize or restrain Israel’s military actions that are clearly illegal and against all humanitarian laws.

Why has that happened? And why is it that we then see the United States moving actually not just to avoid criticism of Israel, but actually to adopt many of its ways of war. It’s the United States that has used guile to lure, if you like, first of all it was Hezbollah, and then it was Iran, and then it was Hamas in Doha, into a situation where they were all together for decapitation, the collective decapitation of the leadership.

It is the United States that has supported, if you like, decapitation itself in Yemen. That was America supporting, saying that they wanted, I think it was Hexhets who said very clearly, our aim in Yemen is to decapitate the leadership.

I mean these are changes in the global foreign policy sphere, which are very significant. And of course, I mean, now we’re looking at what’s happening offshore at Venezuela. These boats that are being attacked and those that are on board are being vaporized. There’s no real detail. So what is going on?

I don’t know, but it looks as if Mr. Trump is very frustrated by how he finds himself and that he’s not having the foreign policy successes or indeed the financial war successes he hoped and he seems to be turning and sort of following and emulating Mr Netanyahu, who we much admire, emulating him in his, if you like, military strategies.

And the background to this, the reasons why Trump seems unable to move away from this complete support. We don’t know. That is another unknown reason in this and a very important point in this occasion.

This puts him in direct tension with his own base because he is going on supporting, look what’s happening these days while we’re talking in Gaza. I mean the sheer destruction, the killing, everything like this, he’s putting him directly at odds with his own base. And we know that Trump said to Netanyahu, “you know, we are losing the young, we’re losing the young.” And he acknowledges the vibe, you know, he says, “we can see it, you’re losing Congress too.” And Dahmer and Netanyahu just smile and say, “yes, that’s right,” secure in the knowledge that they have Trump, by some reason or another.

Netanyahu’s “Little Sparta” Vision

So it’s changing Western, or at least certainly American and to a certain extent European, less so, but European policies, I think, keeping it in a different world outside of, if you like, the Charter of the United Nations, international law, and the old conventions, the Vienna Convention and the other treaties that have regulated life.

But the thing that Netanyahu said, which has shocked the public because he said, “actually, we are little Sparta now. Israel has become little Sparta and we have to get used to, and you have to get used to the fact that we are under siege. We will not be able to live or other states, to trade with other states as we used to.” And indeed, the Europeans even have begun moving in that direction slowly as usual but they are tentatively moving in that direction.

So he says we are going to become an autarky and that we are going to become self-sufficient in military equipment. I mean, what does that mean? How much money will they have to spend to become, I don’t think it’s even possible to become self-sufficient in air defenses. I know they regard themselves as very technically innovative, but they don’t have, I mean even the air defenses they have now, I mean, are not really very great. So, you know, what’s going to happen?

And then of course, we are going to move to the next thing, which is war with Iran. And this is going to be a really major, major affair. And that is going to, I think, change the course of the Middle East.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, great point Alastair, and we can definitely dive more deeply into this last point. I wanted to show you, Alastair, this is even making the rounds in Western mainstream media.

Major critiques of Netanyahu and Israel’s push, quote unquote, into Gaza, what they’ve called an offensive, an occupation, what many are seeing is, even the economists are seeing, is just a rehashing of what happened in the hours and days after October 7, 2023, where Israel’s leaders, they say, fear American support for their war is about to run out.

But one of the key highlights here is they show recent polls are showing that over 70 percent of Israelis favor a ceasefire over continuing the war, and that there are major fractures, as you have mentioned, in Israeli so-called society on this question of the war.

But I also wanted to show, you know, as you were talking about the Super Sparta vision that Netanyahu has as he braces what it seems like for an isolated economic future. Major financial institutions, Alastair, in Israel are saying that Netanyahu needs to cool it with this and the financial situation now in Israel is bleaker and bleaker. Stocks are plunging just because of these comments.

And then finally, here are some comments he made to the finance ministry in a conference. This is in another language, not in English, it’s in Hebrew, so I’m going to play it and read just a few seconds that he comments. He makes very choice comments that show this desperation.

So he says, “Countries like Qatar, China have invested and continue to invest enormous sums to influence Western media with an anti-Israel agenda through bots, AI, publications, you open your phone, you’re bombarded, You see it first and foremost on TikTok without a doubt. This has far greater power than traditional media.”

Now this is ironic Alistair because now even quote unquote traditional media are making these same pronouncements and criticisms that he is railing against Qatar who Israel struck illegally attempts to murder and it’s as they negotiators and now even China. So what do you make of this overall situation? It seems like Netanyahu is showing more and more of these cracks even publicly and it’s causing panic it seems like in elite circles in Israel.

The Deeper Crisis of Israeli Identity

ALASTAIR CROOKE: That is obviously correct. The economic situation is dark. I mean the huge number of call-ups of reservists is depleting the economy. I mean depleting it of staff, of people running their own businesses. And, you know, the shops are nearly empty in many places, I mean, restaurants and things, So it’s directly affecting it. They’ve just called up, I think, another 300,000 reservists.

But I would say something is more important that is really going on in this is this question of the ethos of Israel and its legitimacy therefore because many Israelis are feeling that, you know, that they really almost lost the legitimacy at the founding of Israel by what happened during Nakba. The massacres, the killings, the rapes, all of those things which were never properly brought to justice were never even investigated.

At least there was an investigation never published. And now we are back at Nakba II and the question is, I mean, what is the ethos, What is the underlying ethos of Israel? Has it moved on to Amalek, to sort of Talmudian ethos? Because that will be very strange to about half of the country who are largely secular liberal Israelis who came some years ago but haven’t come for halakhic law to be imposed, which is what the rights are suggesting, that they will impose halakhic law, that is Hebrew law, on the state when it is established.

So I think there is a deeper sort of crisis taking place. What is the future? It reminds me, I remember a long time ago, I was in South Africa at a point of crisis also there. And I remember because I had to deal with many of the Afrikaners. And the point came, wasn’t the ANC and the resistance. The point came was when these Afrikaners and the business elites started to say, “but what will it be for my grandchildren? How will my grandchildren live here?” And that was where the change began.

And when you look at Israel, you must wonder, what do they see as the future for their grandchildren? War? More war? Endless war? I mean, I think this is where we will possibly see a sort of movement for change taking place in Israel.

So I mean, there’s been this long process. This change has been taking place over a period in Israel. It has moved dramatically. The Zionism that, if you like, the people I’ve just been referring to, were familiar with. They wouldn’t recognize the sort of violent Zionism of today. They wouldn’t accept it. They wouldn’t know what it is.

I mean if you ask many secular or European Ashkenazi Jews, I mean what is Zionism? I don’t think you get an answer. You’d have to go to Smotrich or Ben-Givier to get an answer from the right wing.

So this whole question of identity, of ethos, of moral values, I mean, does impinge. Yes, money, weapons, all those things are really very important. But behind that comes the question of what does it stand for?

In fact, in parallel, this is almost a sort of, if you like, a shadow to what we were speaking about early when I was saying that actually some of the Republican young people were searching for an identity, searching for what they stood for, and that after the killing of Charlie Kirk seem to think they have found something. We’ll see whether it comes.

But in Israel there’s no finding of that. In fact, you know, the loss of moral values is cascading. I mean, what’s happening in Gaza, the killing, interviews with soldiers that say they kill 50 children a day. They cross an invisible barrier and we kill them. “How many have you killed?” “Oh, I’ve lost count, but probably about 50, mostly children,” they say.

I mean, you know, what is, you know, what does this mean? What does this say for the future of the state? So I think, you know, that when Netanyahu and Ron Dehmer do, you know, take their noses off the books that they’re looking at and look around at the world and look around at America, they may realize this is the war that they have lost and with it Israel has lost.

The Psychological Toll of War

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, and you know recently there’s been reports coming out of the like academic wings of the Israeli Defense Forces, the Israeli military saying that there’s at least 20,000, this may be an undercount, at least 20,000 Israeli troops or reservists who now suffer from crippling PTSD and other maladies stemming from what is going on right now in Gaza, which is the absolute and total bombardment, destruction, and attempts to pacify and wipe away Palestinian people there.

How does this impact the situation, Alistair? As you said, Israel and Netanyahu and the leadership around him are seeing endless war, are seeing this kind of endless carnage as the solution in and of itself for its own goals and aims. But those numbers, 20,000 alone for such a small, small, small country is definitely eye-opening.

Regional Security Implications

ALASTAIR CROOKE: Well, I think, you know, what does it mean? I mean, beyond that, we’ve had this attack on Doha and then we had an emergency Arab and Islamic summit. I think it was on Friday. And of course nothing was really expected concrete that would emerge from this meeting. It doesn’t usually happen.

But there were some of the most startling statements. I watched the statement of the Pakistani ambassador and the Algerian ambassador at the Security Council. I’ve never heard language like that. War criminals, the language of genocide and all of this, the complete rejection of Israel was quite striking. I mean, this was language, statements. It doesn’t necessarily mean that much, but it was a real shift, if you like, in optics.

And so what are these states in the Middle East there looking at it and realizing that they have no security ultimately now? Israel attacks Doha and seems to have got a green light to do that. And it’s pretty certain they did have a green light because the mechanics of these things is that as soon as aircraft take off from Israel, they are monitored by the American radars and structures and many others, the Iranians and the Russians too, the moment they take off.

So when they start moving towards an American base in Doha, or near to an American base, you can bet that the phones will have been ringing across the Pentagon saying, “look, something’s going on.” If it wasn’t prearranged, then everyone would have known at that point. But most likely it was coordinated earlier because we see at the time there were two refueling, one British and one American refueling tankers in the air sitting off Doha as the attack took place, obviously because it’s quite a long distance from Israel, ready to refuel the Israeli jets on their way home.

But what I would say is that therefore it’s a shock. I mean even if nothing dramatic emerged from the conference, I think all states have been shocked by this and feel frightened that they haven’t got the security that they thought.

For the last 10 years, many of the states thought it was sufficient simply to follow the American line on containing Iran and weakening Iran and that this would be sufficient to provide a guarantee of security. Well first of all then the attack on Iran came out of the blue, and secondly then the attack on Doha. I think they’ve come to the feeling now to think, well, this isn’t sufficient. We don’t know where we stand. This is a frightening situation. We see some signs of change.

Egypt and Regional Tensions

Egypt has deployed Chinese air defenses throughout the Sinai in these last days. Against an Israeli or an American attempt to force Palestinians and to attack the Egyptian forces so as to allow the Palestinians to go into the Sinai which has been a name of Israel for a long time.

We saw a very frightened King Abdullah of Jordan at that meeting who is very anxious seeing that the Israelis are now positioning a new grouping of troops and are mobilizing 15,000 reservists to fill it right across the Jordan on the other side of the Jordanian kingdom, clearly something is being prepared or at least that’s what Abdullah is thinking. So he’s reinstated conscription in Jordan as a consequence. So everywhere you see, you know, if you like, the tremors, the judder spreading across the region from this event.

The Beginning of a Global Shift

What will happen in the long term? I think in the long term it is the beginning of the beginning of a shift, not the shift itself but the beginning of the beginning of a shift and the shift is pretty obvious. It is going to be to China, because it was China that affected, if you like, the reconciliation with Iran. The whole point of that exercise of being anti-Iranian was to get the American umbrella, security umbrella. Well, that’s gone now. It doesn’t make sense anymore.

So it makes much more sense for China to move, too, for them to move closer to China and to Russia and to Iran. And what was very striking at that meeting was to see, if you like, first of all, the Iranian officials meeting with Jelani, a former ISIS man, a sworn enemy of Iran and promising good relations. I mean, that’s a very significant sort of shift towards Iran in that point. But also, Pazashtian, the president, was meeting with Mohammed bin Salman at the same time. And so we saw many sort of the optics were more interesting than the substances emerged from the meeting.

But those optics were quite indicative and very interesting.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, and Alastair, what is the precedent then that was set by Israel in its attempted strike on Qatar because people were killed? I believe the families of these negotiators, many of them were slain by these strikes. And it follows this pattern that you’ve been talking about that the US and Israel have been engaging in, of using negotiations as a weapon to decapitate the groups they don’t like. But at the same time, there is this promise by Israel that they will do more of this.

And so my question is, what is the precedent and why would Israel, given that it touts military superiority, dominance, that it can do whatever it wants, it says that it’s going to continue to do what it’s doing in Gaza as long as no one is going to stop it, why then would it participate in these kind of actions even when they seem to backfire so dramatically, it doesn’t seem to have benefited Israel or maybe I’m wrong, your assessment of this.

Israel’s Strategy and US Support

ALASTAIR CROOKE: I think what it is doing is trading on something and it’s trading on the fact that there is a faction within the United States on the not the Republican side but I’m talking more about the deep state side of the of the US which was enthralled by the decapitation of Hezbollah and Trump and many others of the Israeli firsters felt this was so brilliant and the Israelis had done this remarkable achievement and then followed up by the pagers and the telephone bombs going off. They were full of admiration for this. And so I think Israel has been trading on this sort of zealous enthusiasm for these tactics that exist in Washington.

Coupled with the knowledge, the Sunni world will not push back. They’ll not push back effectively. And therefore, they feel that they can just go ahead. And they feel that the United States understands that the Sunnis will not push back and they understand that you know the decapitation that they approve and like it they advocated it as I said for Yemen the Americans in their own right not from Israel but America was going to decapitate.

So I mean and clearly America approved of the decapitation in Iran. I mean we know that you know that was a joint operation on the 13th when Israel did its sneak attack on Iran and the you know Trump was saying to acquaintances from the West Wing, I mean it’s going to be a great success, it’s going to be a showstopper, isn’t it?

It’s going to be great. These Israelis are so clever. And of course it was intended to bring down, it was intended, the aim was what he was hoping for and what Israel was hoping for, that what they call the House of Cards of Iran would have collapsed. It didn’t. In fact, the opposite has happened.

Iran has become a stronger state from that. But I think this is why, as I say, we have to sort of dig deeper because it’s not just that Israel, Zionism has transformed. Israel has transformed in terms of its military strategy. But also, in its wake, America has been transforming and pursuing very similar tactics too.

America’s Financial Pressures

Does this imply something more profound about where the United States is going? Is the United States and then Mr. Trump in his frustration at perhaps not getting the successes he hoped for with Russia or China or India is going to use the sort of escalatory dominance to try and achieve something in order to try and address the most pressing need of the United States, which is its financial needs, which is to get the money flowing into the United States to offset, if you like, the budget deficit and its contribution to a growing debt problem.

There is a huge amount of debt that is coming due for rollover, for renewal in this period up to midterms, not quite 7 trillion but a big, big slice. And I think Trump’s real focus is on how to deal with this. And one of the elements, of course, was a sort of shakedown of the Europeans and a shakedown of NATO and a shakedown of the Gulf states.

And he got quite a few billions, hundreds of billions from all of that, which have helped offset, if you like, the growth in debt that the budget was giving rise to. So I mean, I think this is why he wants to appear tough and to sort of take a leaf out of Netanyahu’s book and being someone who really does it is tough on the ground because he wants these people to pay up. And they need to pay up. Otherwise, it’s going to be a real problem in the United States in terms of its debt overhand.

DANNY HAIPHONG: And after all of this carnage, what we’re seeing in Gaza City, what Israel is doing. Alastair, the presumed conclusion by both Israel and the United States is that this will eliminate and end Hamas, that Gaza, Palestine overall will no longer be governed or have any influence over it by Hamas. Do you see this as happening? There’s been a lot of speculation already about this operation as already being simply a rehash of what Israel did to begin this military and economic siege, an escalation that has really blown the world away. What’s your take on this?

The Rise of China and Russia

ALASTAIR CROOKE: Yes. Your question, what is where is all of this leading essentially? What is it going to do either to the United States or to the global sphere. I mean, really, at this stage, we can’t answer very clearly that, except to say that China and Russia are strengthening very much in this period. They are very quietly and without fanfare laying out a new international trading system. The elements of it are mostly already in play.

We don’t notice it much because it doesn’t get much attention in the press. But this is occurring at the same time. And Europe is much weaker in this process. So I think we will see with a weakened Europe and with an America that is struggling to, if you like, impose tariffs and other methods to try and increase its revenues, that the trend is going to be towards China.

If you look at a map that I saw one recently put up on Larry Johnson’s site which was a map of how many states, it was a coloured map of how many states had the majority of their trade with the United States and in about 2000 it was almost all blue for the United States.

You look at the same map today and my goodness how it’s changed Africa much of Asia much of the world Now the majority of their trade is transacted with China. And this is going on quietly. And the press don’t like to comment on it or to notice it very much. But this is a really important element taking place. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean that is the future.

DANNY HAIPHONG: And so what is the role of Israel in all of this, Alastair? Because it is, you know, a lot of people have a difficult time understanding, I think, you know, when it comes to the U.S., they make it very clear, the U.S. Makes it very clear that its ultimate goal is containment, weakening Russia, China, basically any state that gets in its way, it perceives getting in its way of unilateral, unipolar dominance.

But Israel, many people look at Israel and they see what’s going on in Gaza and the region and they see it’s a big problem. But I think Israel has this also global significance to it in the sense that it serves as a very key element in this overall attempt to weaken this shift? What’s your assessment of Israel’s global role then, given that it has such an outsized influence over US politics and what we’re seeing every single day here in the US?

Israel’s Limited Global Impact

ALASTAIR CROOKE: What I think is its influence over the actual dynamics that matter will be minimal because the actual dynamics that matter, often businessmen put it in terms of where do you do business, where do you want to do business. I mean America of course because it’s got innovation and technology and it’s got good capital markets and debt markets etc.

I think that’s over. I think the American population is 3% of the globe and that it has a huge disproportionate amount of liquid capital at its disposal, a disproportionate amount. But really if you look at where things are leading, it is to Central Asia, to the heartland of Asia. And that cannot be ignored. And certainly, I mean, Israel and Israel acting as it’s now acting, it’s not going to do anything to change that.

It may actually only accelerate it because this is, you know, seen as the exemplar. The avatar of American thinking and American policy. Most of the world don’t like that. They don’t like to be bullied, they don’t like to be elected, they don’t like to be shaken down for their money.

The Siberia 2 Pipeline and China’s Strategy

And so what you see is, and this I think is very important, I mean at the SCO meeting I said there were lots of things that come out, I won’t go over them now, but one of the most important things was the signing of the Siberia 2 pipeline to China.

Why is that so important? Well, because China, I mean, historically, going back a thousand, two thousand years, has always protected, if you like, the Middle Kingdom against outsiders, against enemies on the periphery. And they’ve done that largely by linking all of the provinces together by roads and by other means and having everything focused on the centre. So even more than a thousand years ago they were establishing a single criteria for the width of axles so that they could pass along any roads in the middle of the Kingdom together.

So when China signed the pipeline to Russia, it was effectively extending, if you like, the heartland, the Middle Kingdom, to dependency on Russia and Russia’s dependency on it.

That symbolically and that geopolitically is huge. Again, look at the map. You’ll see, if you look at the whole map of the heartland, you’ll see on the left plenty of pipelines and energy conduits on the left-hand side, if you like. But the right side going through to Siberia and China relatively soon, you’ll soon see a lot more. There will be spurs going off, I should think, very soon, soon as it’s built.

It’s not due to be completed until 2030. But the Chinese are very quick in building these things. But the spur will go off to India, I am sure. And really, the throbbing heart. If you go to Russia and you go and look at what’s happening, so much activity is happening in Siberia, in that area.

It is humming with activity and investments. And I’m not talking about energy or minerals. I’m talking about technology, about manufacturing, about all sorts of things that is going on there.

The Future of Global Trade

And I think all of these regions, just as you put up that map and you see Africa has now swung over to China and China is implementing many infrastructure projects there. I mean the message of Doha, of the bombing of Hamas in Doha will be to say, where is your future?

Where are you looking now? Where is your vision taking you to? And how could it be other than it’s taking them to Central Asia and they’re taking them to Iran because Iran sits on the crossroads of the North-South Corridor and the East-West Corridor. And these are the main routes that are autonomous and are not dependent on control over the seas, which the West largely still has. And so I think this is the future.

They all see this is the future of business. And China has introduced really revolutionary new ways of doing business by making the digital yuan convertible on the Shanghai Monetary Exchange into gold, linking it to gold, and then creating another, if you like, offshore branch in Hong Kong, which is going to be, which is considered offshore for China. So all the capital controls and everything don’t apply to, will not apply to its branch. Where you can take delivery or give delivery of gold in Hong Kong. And where do you think the one that is currently being built, another Shanghai monetary stronghold vault is being built?

NATO’s Failed Response to Drone Incident

In Saudi Arabia. I mean, Saudi Arabia has been a part of the M-bridge experiment for some time. And people say, well Saudi Arabia will never change, it will never move. Well, who knows?

Alastair, it was really good to be with you today. I want everyone to make sure that they check out. We have a lot more show for you. This is the first part of the show. So Conflicts Forum, Substack, which Alastair contributes, writes, organizes about all of these issues we spoke today and much more geopolitically in the video description. Alastair, we’ll have to speak again soon. Really appreciate you coming on.

ALASTAIR CROOKE: Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Great.

DANNY HAIPHONG: All right, everybody, we have so much show to go and we’re just going to get right to it. We have two of all three now of the next panel here. We have returning friend of the show, Scott Ritter, a geopolitical analyst, former UN Weapons Inspector and US Marine Intelligence Officer. Hey Scott, how are you?

SCOTT RITTER: Good Danny, how are you?

DANNY HAIPHONG: I’ll get to talk to you in the end. Of course. And then we have Larry Johnson. He runs Sonar 21, and he’s a geopolitical commentator, analyst, and his own right former CIA analyst. Good to see you, Larry.

LARRY JOHNSON: Yeah, what an august crowd here, huh?

DANNY HAIPHONG: Well, I’m so glad for all of you to join me today and we can shift focus everyone, keep hitting that like button that keeps the stream going as we move on to part two here.

The Polish Drone Incident: A Ukrainian Provocation

Well let’s begin with how about this. So of course there have been all the rumblings of drone incident, incursion by Russia into Poland, even Romanian airspace, 19 drones supposedly flew into Polish airspace and even hit a village supposedly. Well now even the Ukrainian media through Polish media sources saying that no, this actually was likely a Polish missile, an air defense missile.

And we know now that a lot of these missiles actually missed the target, they even only hit three. So Scott, I wanted to ask you first if you could kick off, what is the significance of this? NATO is called for Eastern Century, we’ll get into also the Zapad 2025 exercises a bit later. But what is the significance of this? Because now a lot of the talk is Russia-NATO war directly and that is a cause for alarm but I know there’s also a reality here. How about you begin?

SCOTT RITTER: Well first of all let’s just stop the nonsense about a Russian-NATO war. It will never happen. NATO is incapable of fighting a war with Russia. It’s just I mean again it’s like wanting Santa Claus to be real but Santa Claus isn’t real.

NATO can’t fight a war. NATO won’t fight a war. NATO’s in no position to fight a war. This was a provocation by Ukraine done, I believe, in full cooperation with at least parts of the Polish government. The Ukrainians apparently over time accumulated a number of Russian decoy drones.

These are styrofoam drones that are designed to activate radars, to absorb fire, to give away positions, hopefully get the Ukrainians to waste air defense resources so that the real drones can do their job. And they launched these into Poland. Belarus reported this and gave the Poles advanced notice. And the Poles responded. Of the 19 decoy drones, only four were engaged.

Apparently, only three were shot down. One, I think a Polish F-16 fired an AIM-120 air-to-air missile, not a surface air missile, air-to-air missile that missed and struck a village doing damage. And now everybody admits this is just a total frame up. There’s no one who takes this seriously anymore. But the Poles, because they were playing to a script, went to Article 4 of the NATO charter, got everybody’s armament.

And then per the script you see this century or whatever they call Eastern Century taking place. Poland deploys 40,000 additional troops to the border. Please people don’t panic. It’s 40 that’s a total of I think it was 30,000 total 40,000 troops there now. These are Polish troops that have 14 days worth of ammunition.

They can’t go into war with anybody. By the way, Russia did the Zapad 2025 exercise, 100,000 troops, there’s 100,000 troops that aren’t involved in the conflict with Ukraine, which is around 800,000 to 900,000 troops. So let’s just stop the nonsense. The danger here isn’t all this stuff. Look, England sent two Eurofighters, two.

I think France sent three Rafales, three. The Germans sent two fighters, two. This is a joke. It’s nothing. Zero squat.

Poland’s Preparation for Ukraine’s Collapse

The problem comes in what happened next. The Ukrainians turned to the Poles and say, “We want to train you how to shoot down drones. We want to train you how to fight the Russians.” The Poles said, “Okay,” so now Ukrainian air defense actors are going to Poland to begin training a NATO member on how to engage the Russians. But even here, I asked people to take a deep breath.

Poland will not extend the air defense umbrella into Western Ukraine without the Russian permission. And now we have to go back to Patrushev’s little conference that he had early this summer, where they said, “Yeah, we think when this war is over, we’re probably looking at the partitioning of Ukraine. And Western Ukraine will go to Poland and, you know, Carpathia will go to Hungary and other parts will go to Romania.” This is what I think is happening here. I think the Poles right now are getting positioned for the collapse of Ukraine, which is happening as we speak, by the way.

Collapses don’t happen overnight, but we’re looking at the political collapse, the economic collapse. You hear the panic in Zelensky’s voice every time he speaks. Now the military collapse. I think what’s eventually going to happen, you need to have a controlled demolition of Ukraine. Ukraine can’t be allowed just to fall apart on its own.

The Russians and the Poles, I believe, are in contact with another, maybe through Belarus, for the controlled demolition of Ukraine. And for that to happen, there will be a moment when Poland needs to extend an air defense umbrella into the territories that it’s going to take responsibility for. The territories that will probably be flooded with refugees will be a humanitarian crisis. And this will be done with the permission of Russia. But Poland is preparing to do that right now by learning how to integrate into the Ukrainian air defense system.

That’s what’s happening. This isn’t about NATO getting ready to go to war with Russia or anything. That just isn’t going to happen. They don’t have the capability to do it. This is about Poland and Ukraine.

Because remember, you’ve got to go back and look at the history. Ukraine has already, Zelensky has already worked with the Poles about setting up an economic union. They’ve already prepared Western Ukraine to be absorbed by Poland. Western Ukraine has already de facto been absorbed by Poland in terms of economic interaction. So all this is doing is setting up.

This is my take because I’m not going to get involved in any of this fear-mongering about war between NATO and Russia because this isn’t going to happen. NATO has zero capacity to do this.

When All Else Fails, They Take You to War

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, Gerald, how about your take on this, what seems like a desperate disaster here?

GERALD CELENTE: Well, you know, he’s right about not having the capabilities, but wars go on without capabilities. Again, we only look at what’s going on as we have the Trends Journal magazine, we report each week of the current events forming future trends.

One of them is that the economies are all going down in Europe. You see the protests now going on in France and what’s Germany doing now? Germany’s only been in a recession for two years. Two years. This is the third largest economy in the world and the largest one in Europe.

They’re heading to the third year of recession. But what are they doing? We’re borrowing a trillion dollars to build up our military and the infrastructure is going to hold the tanks, all right? A trillion dollars in a country that’s in recession? Again, we only put the facts in there.

Porsche, they’re not selling many cars now, now they’re getting into the military. One company after another, the stocks on the military industrial complex in Europe are all going way up. One of my lines is, “When all else fails, they take you to war.” Only by the facts. Let’s take a look at the Israel war.

There were 39 weeks of protests going on in Israel when Netanyahu got elected and tried to push through his judicial reform act. Everybody forgot about this. Not my language, the language of Isaac Herzog, the president of Israel. Now I’m going back to 2023 and 2022. Quote, “There’s a civil war going on in Israel.”

That’s right, 39 weeks of protests. What happens? Hamas attacks on October 7th. But everybody forgot about it. Oh, again, we only put the facts in.

We write a magazine weekly. Three days later, it was reported that the United States and Egypt warned Israel that the attack was going to happen. And that’s the Israeli news site that we subscribe to. Also reported on and on and on that they knew this attack was going to happen. When all else fails, they take it to war.

Want some more facts? Google up. Everybody listening, just Google up, “Franklin Roosevelt seizes all Japanese assets history today” mainstream mainstream on July 26 1941 President Franklin Roosevelt seized all Japanese assets in retaliation for those dirty Japanese invading French Indochina. French Indochina? What the hell are the French doing in Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam?

And you’re calling it French Indochina? Shut the hell up, Salety! We’re in Algeria, we’re in Morocco, we’ve got the French for our allegiance, and we’re stealing, robbing, pillaging anything we want. The United States, I’m not making this up, and the Dutch East Indies. Dutch East Indies?

What the hell are they doing over in Indonesia? Oh, the same thing that the French are doing. Stealing, robbing, and pillaging. And the English, who had military bases in Singapore. Oh, the English? Where the sun never sets on the British Empire? We’re murdering people all over the world? They put sanctions on Japan. Japan lost three-quarters of their global trade and they cut off 88% of their imported oil. Oh, they only import 100%.

Oh, what was going on back then? Oh, the Great Depression. When all else fails, they take it to war. Hey, let’s go back to the dot-com bust. A busted in, which we reported, we forecast it was going to happen in our Trends Journal in 1999 we said with dot-com bust would happen by the second of the 2000.

Oh it did. Before you continue Gerald do you have is there is there a microphone I feel like there’s some tapping on it. I don’t know if that’s me just tapping the thing over here

Going back to the what happened. We’d forecast the dot-com bust it busted the Nasdaq lost 80% of its value 80%. What happened? 9-eleven nine. Everybody forgot about it. We were in a recession.

When all else fails, they take you to war. Scott is 100% right. Ain’t no way, no how NATO could defeat Russia. No way. But you’ve got crazy people in charge.

They’re only interested in themselves. They could care less about we the people. That’s the way we see it. So we’re concerned that this war is going to keep ramping up because they’re ramping up the military industrial complex. The facts are all there.

All the dough is going, all the auto sales are down all over the place. Down, down, down, down, down, down, all the exports down, down, down, down. They’re building up the economy with the military industrial complex. That’s my concern.

NATO’s Military Incompetence Exposed

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, and Larry, given all this money going to the military-industrial complex, it’s quite something else that NATO claims they were only able to, via Poland, take down three of 19 of these so-called drones, decoy drones. Your assessment of this situation, because it’s got relayed and Gerald also reinforced, NATO can’t fight a war with Russia directly, yet they keep talking about it and they keep pushing it.

LARRY JOHNSON: Well, I think the broader point Gerald’s making is that we are now in a, let’s call it a historical period that when future historians, if we’ve survived this, will look back and see this as a change as consequential as what took place at the end of World War II with the formation of Bretton Woods, the United Nations, International Monetary Fund, World Bank. The old, let’s call it the colonial-based empire and economic system is coming to an end. And it’s not going peacefully into that night. It’s raging against the storm.

But what has been exposed in the course of the special military operation by Russia is the complete lack of strategic depth in the West. Yeah, on paper there is this military industrial complex. Yes, it sucks up a lot of money, but its output is pretty shoddy. So, you know, they’ve now got themselves into a situation, as we saw with these so-called drone attacks. I think Scott’s exactly right.

This was something genned up by Ukraine in the desperate move to create a provocation that would bring NATO into the war full bore. A couple of the drones had actually been taped together with 100 mile hour tape, duct tape. They were basically plastic and styrofoam. They didn’t carry any weapons. And here’s NATO using AIM sidewinder missiles to take out a drone that may have cost $1,000 to build.

And they’re using a missile that cost hundreds of thousands if not a million dollars. Aircraft that were scrambled, F-16s and others, F-35s to try to take down these drones. And with all that military technology, they only got three out of 19. That’s pathetic. The Patriot missile situation, not only is it ineffective against any of the hypersonic missiles, but you got to fire at least two of them on any inbound target.

NATO’s Industrial Capacity Crisis

Well, that sounds great, except when you realize on one day alone, Russia fired 800 plus drones and missiles in just one day. So if you’ve got to fire two patriots for each one of those, you’re up over 1,600. Except Lockheed Martin only produces 550 a year. And they don’t have the industrial capability to suddenly start producing 5,000.

So the United States, primarily, but NATO to a lesser extent, have erected this military industrial complex that is actually reminiscent of Soviet industry back in the days when the Soviet industry didn’t work so well. It cannot produce effectively or efficiently. What it does produce, man, it’s costly as hell.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, and Scott, question to you, why now? Why is it that we see NATO, we see Poland, we see Rutte talk in this way and almost deflect from Ukraine? That’s what it feels like too, it feels like a deflection of the situation in Ukraine overall. So why now? Why is it that they want to talk so big about war with Russia despite your prior points of their inability and lack thereof of resources to even do that?

Europe’s Economic Collapse and Military Desperation

SCOTT RITTER: Well, let’s focus on what Gerald was talking about. Porsche isn’t produced in civilian cars right now because they can’t. They’re too expensive. Porsche, I think, in 2024 suffered career ending losses. In order to save the company, they had to transition to armor to take, to make tanks.

The problem for Porsche is that there is no German company that makes steel. They can’t afford to because they got rid of that cheap Russian gas. And they just can’t do it. So they have to buy all their steel from Sweden. And that’s costing them a pretty penny.

And the reality is, even though Porsche is now investing a significant amount of money to transition to defense industry, they can’t afford it. They’re not going to build a single damn tank because they can’t afford it. They’re about ready to go under. Porsche is going to roll. They’re trying to sell some of their business. They’re breaking it up as we speak. They’re selling some of their business to a Czech billionaire who thinks that he’s got the plan, but there is no plan.

Unless you, as Gerald said, create a war urgency. And so this is what’s happening right now is you’ve just got a war. And this is for all of Europe. They literally can’t afford to do what they claim to do. So in order to convince people to spend the money, which will just destroy the recession driven economies even worse, they have to gin up the fear of Russia.

No one’s buying it. The Polish people aren’t buying it. The German people aren’t buying it. The French people aren’t buying it. Nobody in Europe’s buying this but the politicians. So they’re singing a song to themselves. This is what’s happening.

NATO’s Impossible Financial Demands

Rutte is the secretary general of NATO, a military alliance that can’t sustain itself. Literally, I mean, look at the stupidity of NATO. They weren’t able to meet the 2.5% benchmark that had been set that was necessary. That’s GDP. So now they all said, we’re going to do five. This is 5% GDP.

It’s not as though they’re increasing defense spending by 2.5%. We’re talking about 2.5% of the gross domestic product of the entire nation. No budget can support this. Not a single one can support this. They can’t. They don’t have the money. It’s just stupidity.

And so in order to do this, the Germans are talking about doing away with pensions, cutting healthcare, cutting all the things that made Germany work. And Germany is a collapsing society. I was just in Switzerland talking to the Swiss, a nice little bastion of civilization, because they haven’t totally sold out yet to the warmongers, although Swiss neutrality is at risk.

But they’re coming in from Germany, and I said, man, I remember Germany fondly, said that Germany doesn’t exist anymore. I mean, German trains don’t run on time, they break down. I can attest to this. When I was in Berlin, I was on one of their high speed trains and I literally got kicked off and it was a disaster but continue.

Yeah, it’s just, Germany’s, France is a joke, literally a collapsing massive stupidity. The British, Starmer, you know, sit here talking about, I’ve got until May of, no you don’t Starmer, you’re going down sooner than you think. All of Europe’s going down.

The Panic of European Leadership

And so what do you do when you have this warmongering class that has been in power now for several decades, the European Union slash NATO slaves to America, suddenly being told you’re on your own. I mean, they’re in pure panic mode, pure panic mode. And so this is what we’re seeing. We’re just seeing panic people making statement after statement after statement that is so far removed from reality.

Because again, they’re not going to build a tank. They can’t afford it. They don’t have the money for it. I mean, they can sit here and talk about all they want. I mean, words can flow. Back in the Depression, at least we had a steel industry. Pittsburgh puts steel out there. Ford could convert his Model T into Shermans.

The Germans, they got nothing. Porsche is a collapsed entity. They’re breaking up their steel industry as they speak. The Swedes can’t, I mean, they’re going to jack up the price of their armor-plated steel. And it’s competition because the French now are talking about building tanks, but they don’t make steel anymore. Nobody makes steel in Europe anymore except the Swedes. That’s it. Nobody makes armor-plated steel.

So now you’re going to be competing for it. So now you’re going to have everybody saying we need some of this steel, the prices are going to go up and the Germans have no money, they’re bankrupt. So this is why you’re seeing the rhetoric you’re seeing.

Poland’s Internal Political Divisions

But the reality is there are people in the background, especially in Poland, because keep in mind that the Poles, yeah, they have Tusk, who is just a Russophobic moron, but they also have a new president who’s Russophobic, but not quite a moron, meaning he understands certain realities.

For instance, the new president is putting the government of Poland on task. “Why the hell did one of our missiles hit a village? And why did you report it as a Russian thing for us? Why are you lying to the Polish people?” You got the president of Poland at war with the prime minister of Poland. And you have the president of Poland saying things like, “Yeah, we ain’t extending our air defense into Ukraine. We’re not doing any of this crap.”

Poland understands the realities. The Polish generals understand the realities of what’s going on here. They know they got 14 days worth of ammunition at best. I always love it because 14 days based on ideal conditions. Larry, you know nothing in war is ideal.

So imagine trying to take your ammunition out of a depot that’s just been blown up. Oh gosh, you don’t have 14 days worth of ammunition anymore, do you? Because you just lost 80% of it in a massive explosion because you couldn’t evacuate to the combat deployment points, which you haven’t established yet.

Well, let’s say you started moving some of these combat deployment points. Now the drone’s overwhelming and you pop them off, you lose 70 percent of your traffic going in there. You’ve got two days’ worth of ammunition now, but you don’t have any howitzers left because they’re all killed too. The Poles know that it’s game set match the moment they engage with the Russians. It won’t even be a hesitation.

Russia’s Strategic Planning for Ukraine’s Partition

This is why the polls are involved in a completely different game right now. Naryshkin, the head of the Russian Foreign Service, the Foreign Intelligence Service, would not, this is just my assessment, maybe Larry and Gerald can correct me if they think I’m wrong. But he is not going to commit publicly to something like the partition of Ukraine on his own volition.

Naryshkin didn’t wake up in the morning and go, “What the hell, screw it. Putin, up yours, buddy. I’m going to go ahead and unilaterally make the decision that when Ukraine collapses, we’re giving Western Ukraine to the Poles.”

Now, he made this decision because there is already things, the Russians don’t lead with their words first. The Russians build the foundation of reality and then their words align with reality. So for Naryshkin to say we’re giving Western Ukraine to the Poles or we’re considering it means A, that decision’s already been made and B, there’s somebody in Poland who’s received this and acknowledged that that’s probably the direction they’re going.

So I think what we’re seeing right now is this sheer panic on the part of NATO. There’s nothing serious about Europe today, nothing serious at all. That’s my take.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, yeah. Well, Gerald and Larry, I definitely want your final comments on this issue.

The Economic Fallacy of Military Buildup

GERALD CELENTE: Well, going back to building up their military, as I said, when all else fails, they take you to war. And by the way, one of the covers of our Trends magazine, Trends Journal, was “Heil of Merz” for what he’s doing. And again, a trillion dollars as they’re in recession.

But here’s the lie that they’re selling, and even the mainstream media is selling it. They say that by building up their military, they’re going to build up their economy. No, they’re not. They’re going to go deeper into debt. Their economy is built up when the products that are manufactured in your country are bought by consumers.

Number two, this is a waste of money. Because before, it began talking about the drones. Let’s go back. When did this drone stuff start happening? That’s relatively new in the last decade and a half, maybe. The weapons that they’re making, this is like making catapults to fight a war or trenches. This is tanks, planes, this is all a waste of money.

World War III, or what was this guy’s name, Einstein? They asked him what kind of weapons will be used to fight in the Third World War. He said, “I don’t know, but they’ll be using sticks and stones to fight the fourth.” Got it? This is a total wasted money. You go to war against Russia, everybody, bye-bye world, it’s going to be nuclear annihilation.

The Israel-Iran Nuclear Threat

And let’s put something else back in there, too. Look what’s going on in Israel with that war. They had the slaughter going on, they’re wiping the people out of Gaza. And how many more people are saying that Israel’s going to ramp up an attack with Iran? It goes to war with Iran. This time it’s going to be a totally different deal.

Iran is a very advanced nation, militarily, scientifically, technologically. And what does Israel say they’re going to do if they lose? Not my language, their language, the Samson option, S-A-M-S-O-N. They go nuclear. So that’s my greatest concern.

This weapons that they’re making now, this is a waste of money, only enriching the military industrial complex and has nothing to do, nothing to do with winning a war. This is one of my books, Trends 2000. I was brought to International Best Scholars, brought to Virginia Military Institute back in 2000 to talk about what I called new millennium warfare. It’s a totally different game. And that was 25 years ago and how things have advanced since then.

So again, “I don’t know how World War III will be fought,” said Einstein, “but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

Russia’s Military Evolution vs. Western Stagnation

LARRY C. JOHNSON: War is a skill. And, you know, I’m a firearms instructor, and I know that if people go out and practice, they can improve on what they do. Well, what Russia has been doing in the course of the special military operation, it’s going to – it has been going to advanced graduate school. They’ve been learning all along the way.

They didn’t start off with one firm plan and then stick to that without any change or alteration. What they have perfected is described as net-centric warfare. And it’s the kind of thing that a soldier out in a particular location that’s getting attacked, whether by drone or artillery fire, can immediately call in fire on that particular target so that they’re integrated fully throughout the various echelons of the military and they’ve been able to they have perfected this kind of communication as well as innovation at the lower levels.

In the past, the model was that the Soviets were very rigid and they did things one way and they wouldn’t listen to the soldiers on the front line. That’s been proven to be just wrong. I raise that because in contrast, there doesn’t appear to be any learning going on in the West, particularly among NATO.

I mean, when we look back at the failed so-called counteroffensive that Ukraine launched in June of 2023. This was largely planned by U.S. Generals, by U.S. Military planners. You know, you don’t have to be Von Clausewitz or Sun Tzu to figure out that if you’re going to attack a bunch of entrenched positions and fortifications that are very much in depth and you don’t have any air power your chances of winning are pretty slim and the Ukrainians got wiped out.

What I’m raising here though is Russia by virtue of this war, you know, they call it the special military operation because they haven’t mobilized society, but nonetheless they are learning things about their own productive capability, their ability to innovate, their ability to bring new technologies to the battlefield, that they’re not burdened with some of the same bureaucratic and political obstacles that the West has shackled itself with.

So they’re much more nimble and capable. And it’s in that regard, I think that’s why you start to see North Koreans who go there, they’ll get some combat experience. The Indians, they’ll get some combat experience. China, you know, China hasn’t put its foot in the water that way, but the reality is China, despite its magnificent, you know, it’s got this huge military, very, you know, technologically sophisticated.

Russia’s Military Capabilities and Strategic Position

But they haven’t really fought a war since 79. The last time they did, they got beat. So just having a team that looks good in uniform doesn’t mean they can actually get out on the field and play.

Russia has now established itself, in my view, and I think Scott shares this, as the preeminent military power in the world today. But they’re doing it from a reasonable standpoint. They’re not looking to become the global hegemon and to become an expeditionary military where they expend all of their financial resources in fruitless wars overseas.

I think they’re content to stay as close to home as possible, fight a great defense, but in the process demilitarize the West, which is exactly what’s happening.

Zapad 2025 Military Exercises

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, and in terms of this innovation, I wanted to get into this with you, Scott, and of course the rest of our panel. But to start with you, Scott, let’s take a look at Vladimir Putin briefed the Zapad 2025 military exercises conducted with Belarus. The U.S. actually had an officer contingent that was there.

And I just want to play a bit of what Vladimir Putin described these exercises, their significance, what they brought to bear. Here we go.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: “Comrades, today we are conducting the final part of the strategic exercise ZAPAD 2025. The purpose of the exercise is to practice all necessary elements for the unconditional protection of sovereignty, territorial integrity, and defense of the Union State against any aggression. The event is taking place at 41 training grounds with 100,000 military personnel participating and approximately 10,000 weapon systems and equipment involved. With all of this being modern equipment used in practical combat operations, and the exercise plans are built based on the experience gained during the special military operation.”

DANNY HAIPHONG: So Scott, there has been a lot of panic in the Western media too, and even by Mark Rutte himself, about especially Russia’s missile capabilities, especially the Zircon, which is one of the newer models. Maybe you could help the audience understand what the significance of this exercise is, what it shows about Russia’s military capabilities, and why it’s important that Russia, Belarus conducted this exercise in this particular moment?

The Union State: Russia-Belarus Military Integration

SCOTT RITTER: Well, first of all, you have to pay attention to what Putin said. He didn’t say the Russian Federation, he said the Union State, which means that Belarus is now permanently linked to Russia from a geopolitical strategic standpoint.

There is no difference between the Russian Federation and Belarus when it comes to the defense. It was just a few years ago that Poland and the Baltic states backed by the United States and the European Union were trying to color revolution in Belarus. Lukashenko was climbing out of helicopters with an AK-74 in his hand saying, “If you want me, come and get me.” And Europe thought that Belarus was ripe for the picking. That ain’t the case anymore.

Belarus is firmly in the camp of the Union state, which means Belarus and Russia are joined at the hip politically, economically, and militarily. So that’s one of the big things here because Belarus provides critical military advantages for Russia in any potential conflict with NATO. And this exercise proved that 100%.

One of the things that was done in this exercise, not just that Russia fired the Zircon missile, but that Belarus exercised its Oreshnik capabilities. The Oreshnik of course being the intermediate range missile that Russia fired on November 21st of last year for the first time in history, an intermediate range missile fired in anger.

And it’s now entered serial production in Russia’s in the process of deploying the Russian units in the Russian Federation and in Belarus. Belarus is getting a regiment. That’s three battalions, each battalion is three launchers. So Europe was put on notice that there is no difference between Russia and Belarus. That’s got to make NATO planners understand that a conflict in the future with Russia, Belarus is automatically part of Russia.

The Belarusian military now is joined at the hip. It’s not about waiting for Russia to send forces into Belarus to attack the Suwalki corridor, etc. They’re there. There’s a group of forces, they’re fully integrated with the Belarusians, and it’s just a game changer.

Russia’s Defensive Posture

But the other thing that Putin’s talked about is the priority on sovereignty. The Russians aren’t here. This is a defensive operation. This is about Russia doing what’s necessary to defend its sovereignty. So a clear signal was sent that this isn’t the exercise, march on the Rhine that people used to fear back in the Cold War. This isn’t about Russia trying to take Warsaw, this isn’t about Russia trying to take Berlin, it’s about Russia defending the Union State against outside aggression, NATO aggression.

It’s the clearest signal possible that Russia cannot be beaten but is not looking for a fight.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, and Gerald, what’s your reaction to seeing this kind of exercise occur and what kind of message it sends?

The 2014 Ukraine Coup and Media Propaganda

GERALD CELENTE: Oh, sorry, hold on one second. It’s so important. This was the Trends Journal magazine back in the spring of 2014. So happy that guy is? It’s about the United States overthrow of the democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych that nobody talks about anymore anywhere. And the article was written by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Treasury Secretary under Ronald Reagan.

Just quickly, Washington concluded that Russia needed to be confronted with or distracted by problems that would leave the Russian government less confident it would be able to counter Washington’s aggression elsewhere. I’m talking about it because of what Scott is saying about Russia defending itself and what the Ukrainians have been doing.

It goes on to say, Ukraine presented the perfect opportunity for Washington to advance its hegemonic agenda in a speech at the National Press Club last December, which was December 13th, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland boasted that Washington had invested $5 billion in non-governmental organizations in Ukraine for the purpose to “teach democracy.” So the people have no clue of how the United States overthrew the government.

And this is the Victoria Nuland, by the way, that when the Ukraine war began, this is March 30th, 2022, from Current Times, “Russia taking credible losses in Ukraine, senior US says.” I think that unfortunately the Russians have not yet fully learned how tough the Ukrainian military is. US Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland said in an interview with Current Times on March 29th. All right? Oh, oh, Under Secretary, yeah, How about under a piece of crap? This murderous clown lady.

Again, she goes on, Nuland said that Moscow’s defense to reposition its forces as announced on March 29th, “was a direct result of the fierce resistance that the Ukrainians put up outside of Kiev and its suburbs.”

This is the crap that the mainstream media keeps shoving down the people’s mouth that they keep swallowing. You ready? “Former Russian commander in Ukraine says Putin could be overthrown by the Wagner mercenary army.” Business Insider, May 29th, 2023. “US says Ukraine has sufficient supplies for counteroffensive.”

This was June, 2023. “This is a war, so we know there will be damage on both sides.” This is according to the little clown boy who said the counteroffensive is going great. US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag. “I think the Russians showed us the same five vehicles about a thousand times from ten different angles,” scoffed Austin.

Goes on and on and on that we will continue to provide Ukraine with what it needs to succeed. That’s a quote. Stealing our money to give to these jerks. Again, here, Vladimir Zelensky says Ukraine counter offensive about to gain pace. All of this stuff is forgotten. How they bragged that this counteroffensive was going to go on.

Zelensky, “we will be able to do what previous generations failed to do.” This is the crap the mainstream media keeps shoving down a people’s mouth that everybody forgot about and it keeps on going so no there’s no way in the world they’re going to win this war Russia’s going to keep what they got and NATO I believe is going to do everything they can to stop it. And you got crazy people in charge. You got Macron over there, you got Starmer, you got one jerk after another. They’re going to do everything they can to stay in power.

Military Exercise Analysis and Information Operations

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah, and Larry, your comments to not only on what has been said, but also what you saw during these exercises, the ZAPAD 2025.

LARRY C. JOHNSON: Well, I spent 23 years scripting military exercises for JSOC and SOCOM. So these were on a much smaller scale, but the same principles apply. The purpose of these kinds of exercises is to basically ensure that the communications between different units, and in this case not just different units but different countries, is effective. That they can talk to one another, that they can relay orders back and forth, that they can actually take action together.

So it involves a – it’s sort of a test run to make sure that in the event that something in the real world happens, they can actually carry out the missions that they do.

I want to comment in particular on what Gerald was talking about, because I did a brief stint while at CIA in covert action, which was an information operation. This is back in the Stone Age, okay? We didn’t have social media. We had to actually do, if you’re going to put out a video, you actually had to go to the camcorder or some official camera with Kodak film to go film it.

The written word was in newspapers, magazines, but we were able to insert stories and create narratives. And the narratives had a very specific purpose to shape public opinion. Well, now we’re seeing that in steroids. Just the other day, we saw Keith Kellogg insisting that, oh, Russia’s losing, Ukraine’s winning. I mean, it’d be funny if it wasn’t involving the deaths of actually tens of thousands of Ukrainians on a monthly basis.

But here he is lying about this. And I don’t know if he actually knows the truth or if he actually believes what he’s saying, but regardless of whether he believes it or he’s deliberately lying, what we know is what he’s spreading is just not true.

Deconstructing the “Terrorism” Narrative

But this desire to shape public opinion and to create a narrative, it spills over beyond the war between the special military operation with Ukraine. We’ve seen it with Hamas, where Hamas has labeled this massive terrorist group. Except when I went back and actually pulled the numbers to look at, can you give me the number of attacks, the dates, the victims, How many did they kill?

What you discover is, and this is from the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s database, is that over a 25-year period, Hamas was involved with Palestinians. It wasn’t just Hamas. Palestinians, which includes Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Palestine, Islamic Jihad, and others, there’s like 16 different groups, over that 25-year period, 1,527 Israelis were killed.

Now, I’m not trying to minimize the loss of 1,527, but that’s over a 25-year period. That’s not exactly what you would call killing 3,000 people on 9-11. It’s not even in the same ballpark. And yet, the media persists with spreading this lie that Hamas is just an irredeemable terrorist organization.

Same with Iran. They were told Iran, number one sponsor of terrorism, except if you go look at the data, the State Department’s annual report on terrorism, now called Country Reports on Terrorism, you don’t find any groups that are in the top ten most active terrorist groups that are actually sponsored by, paid for, trained by Iran. They all actually have connections to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the Emiratis, the Gulf Arabs.

So again we’re now living in this world where the fantasy becomes reality and then reality is shoved to the side so that we no longer have a firm grasp of what’s actually happening.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Yeah and Larry I know you have time commitments.

LARRY C. JOHNSON: Yeah. So thank you so much for joining.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Hey, always a pleasure. Forget to hang out with Scott and Gerald, I get smarter.

LARRY C. JOHNSON: Of course. All right. All right. Take care.

Europe’s Aggressive Stance and Trump’s Continued Involvement

DANNY HAIPHONG: But, well, definitely going to close up soon here. I just wanted to get final comments on this. So back to you, Scott, I wanted to pull up, as we’re looking at Russia’s military capabilities and as we are seeing what’s going on with Zapad 2025, Council on Foreign Relations published this, “Europe’s delayed reckoning with Russia, a plan to beat the Kremlin on its own terms.”

And I just want to highlight a particular quote on what it suggests. It suggests that Europe be more aggressive in calculating its approach to Russia, that it use all of the tools economically available – seizure of Russian assets abroad – and it should take stringent positions that can co-sign it to the sidelines of future negotiations, refusing to count in sanctions relief for Russia unless the 1991 borders are restored. It should also learn to beat Putin at his own subversive game. And also, if it wants to shape Russia, it must start now, or these drones, as we were talking about earlier, are going to be just a part of what’s to come.

But Scott, there’s also a reality here that I’d like your comment on too, because as Europe is being pushed by, and everyone needs to remember that Foreign Affairs is the Council on Foreign Relations, really a CIA entity, you also have the Trump administration clearing the so-called first Ukraine arms aid paid for by allies.

So what’s your reaction to these developments, Scott? Because on the one hand, we’ve seen the US and Russia engage in talks, we’ve seen the US under Trump talk about Europe’s war, but at the same time as the CIA seems like it wants to push Europe into more and more war with Russia, the Trump administration is continuing its role in the conflict. How have you been assessing this?

SCOTT RITTER: Well, first of all, that article is, we have to acknowledge that it’s written by a bunch of Russophobes who are living in a fantasy world.

Russia’s Economic Transformation and Western Leverage

SCOTT RITTER: Had the CIA come to me in 2021 and advise me on what would be the best course of action vis-à-vis Russia, I would have said to continue to ensure that the West is fully engaged inside Russia. You see, at that time, Russia had not a viable opposition, but it did have a political opposition. Navalny was the head of it, but there were hundreds of thousands of active political opponents to Vladimir Putin and millions of people who were passive opponents to Vladimir Putin.

The West’s economic reach had insinuated itself into about 30, close to maybe 40 percent of Russia’s economy. And Russia was afraid to take any action that could cause a rupture with the West because there was a political opposition.

And this economic continuation gave the West leverage over around 20 to 30 percent of the Russian population who were on the sidelines. They would support Vladimir Putin so long as their economic well-being was taken care of. You had billions of dollars of capital in the hands under the control of oligarchs who kept that money outside of Russia, and the Russian government was trying to get them to reinvest, but they had to be careful. You see, all the leverage was there. All the leverage was there.

So you slow roll it. You come in and you slow roll. You do the slow pain if that’s what you want to do. But instead, they went whole hog. They did the divorce.

The New Russian Reality

None of these conditions exist anymore. There is no opposition to Vladimir Putin inside Russia today. They all fled. Remember those hundreds of thousands of Russians that were getting out there to escape mobilization and leave after the war, or they all fled to Georgia and Kazakhstan and Europe and the world? They’re gone.

The people that stayed behind, they’re supporting Vladimir Putin come hell or high water. There was this rapid divorce. Russia has reconfigured its economy so that it is sanctions proof. That’s why Russia yawns whenever sanctions are mentioned. There is zero, zero sanctions leverage over the Russian economy today, zero, because Russia also has the ace in the hole.

Right now Russia has retained an economy that operates on capitalist principles. They still have a stock market. They still talk about interest rates and all the same things we talk about here in the West, Russia worried about inflation rates and all that. But if need, Russia can play the economic mobilization card. They can go full Joseph Stalin.

And they can make that transition to a state-controlled economy that the West can’t make. Russia can do it overnight because almost every major Russian enterprise now is a joint stock company where the government has a significant play and they can just take it over instantly. All those oligarchs and all that money, they’re gone. And now the ones that stay in Russia, they have to reinvest all that money back into Russia. They don’t get to take their resources and flee.

Western Delusions About Economic Warfare

There’s no leverage. Russia has written off its foreign reserves, meaning that they understand that the West is nothing but a bank robber, that these hundreds of billions of dollars that Russia had parked as part of the global economic system. They don’t expect to get that back. They’ve already adjusted that. So all these people talk about, “we’re going to take Russia’s currency reserves that we froze.”

It has zero impact on Russia. It’ll collapse your economy because the world will recognize that there is no such thing as a safe haven for sovereign wealth. Because if you can take it from the Russians, you can take it from anybody. And so that’s the end of currency reserve status, etc. Nothing those people wrote in that article can happen.

Russia’s already made the adjustments. This is just the fantasy world that these people are because now they’ve realized that the decisions they made in 2021 and 2022 to declare economic war on Russia, to engage in this proxy conflict with NATO, they’ve lost. So now they’re desperately trying to go back to the only thing they know, which was the world that existed before they made all these bad decisions. But they’ll never go back to that world. That world doesn’t exist anymore.

Russia has redefined its existence and it doesn’t need any of the things that those people think they have as leverage over Russia. So that’s just the reality. These people live in an absolute fantasy world and there’s no relation whatsoever with reality.

DANNY HAIPHONG: You know, Gerald, talk about Scott’s talking about this fantasy world that these warmongers are living in. Talk about your efforts. I know that there’s a rally coming up and I’ll pull up the information for it soon in about 10 days. Talk about this rally that you’re helping organize. I know Scott is helping organize the Peace and Freedom Rally in the context of any other comments that you want to make about this topic?

Western Propaganda and Russian Reality

GERALD CELENTE: First of all, when it comes to Russia, Scott Ritter knows about Russia inside out. 99.99% of the people have no idea about it. So he just puts the facts out there. And of course, they taught us to hate Russia when I was a kid, hiding under a desk in case an atomic bomb goes off. I thought that’s going to save your life. And again, nothing more than propaganda about what he said about Putin not going anywhere.

“Putin will be gone within a year and the West must be ready for his terrifying replacement, warns ex-MI6 spy.” This is July 28, 2023. The lies that they keep selling. Christopher Steele, who ran MI6’s Russians, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All right? They said he was going to be gone.

So it’s just propaganda. Ukraine war. “Kiev could gain upper hand in 2023 says US think tank.” How about stink tank Institute for study of war. So what Scott is saying, you’re not going to beat the Russians over here.

The Trends Journal said that when Biden said, when they put the sanctions on Russia, that quote, “Putin’s going to pay the price” and all those companies left Russia, we said, this is stupid. Russia has everything they need to be self-sustaining, technologically, scientifically, culturally, militarily, on and on. They don’t need these companies. They’re more self-sustaining. And the world, the BRICS, the Chinese, the Indian, we just saw that meeting in China, they’ve had enough of the United States.

This is the beginning of the end. We’re going to the same place where the Great Britain went that our country overthrew, they’re getting them out of there, we became that country where the founding fathers hated.

The Peace Rally in Kingston

So anyway, we’re having a peace rally on September 27th up here in Kingston, New York. You go to OccupyPeace.com, OccupyPeace.com, Scott Ritter, Judge Napolitano, Dennis Kucinich, Ray McGovern, a live stream with Roger Waters, and Scott, I’d like to get Garland Nixon here too. We’d like to bring him in and we’re going to have other speakers as well.

We’re doing everything we can to bring peace on earth. Again, Judge Napolitano, Kucinich, Ritter, we’re doing everything we can. So people, please support us. We’re supporting you. It’s not about us, it’s about you.

It’s about bringing peace on Earth. Could you imagine if the billionaires gave us a couple of hundred million dollars for peace, we’d have it tomorrow. You don’t give a penny for peace. So please try to come to the peace rally here on September 27th, it’s starting at 2 p.m. We’re going to have music as well, and we’re going to try to entertain the people and bring life to a higher spirit.

And I’m so thankful for all that Scott does, that a man as brave as him, very few on the planet, all the crap that he’s gone through and he keeps staying out there and fighting, and the other people as well. So thank you very much for all of you for what you’re doing.

DANNY HAIPHONG: Of course. Scott, any final… Oh, sorry. Hold on a second. You’re muted. Sorry. Final words.

Operation Dawn: Preventing Nuclear War

SCOTT RITTER: First of all, Gerald, thank you very much. I have reached out to Garland and I’m waiting for his final confirmation, but I think the initial response is not just yes, but hell yes. Last year, Gerald and I helped Gerald put on this rally last year. For the people out there thinking, it’s just another peace rally. Last year we announced Operation Dawn, a drive to stop a nuclear war. Danny, you know about this because you helped us out in New York city.

We stopped a nuclear war, ladies and gentlemen. This project stopped a nuclear war. What was started last year at Gerald’s rally in Kingston is the reason why you’re alive today. Because if we didn’t do this, if we didn’t have this operation, there would have been a better than the CIA says it straight up, more than a 50% chance that there would have been a nuclear war between Russia and the United States by the end of the year. And Operation Dawn got the Trump administration to commit to a policy that back then was candidate Trump of not doing what Biden’s doing.

Donald Trump, you know, we said you have to make a statement to stop the attack of his missiles from being launched deep into Ukraine because that was Russia’s red line. And Trump, after the pressure we put on through Congress, did that. Okay? This stuff works. We’re not talking about coming out here and holding hands and singing Kumbaya.

Gerald is lining up some of the best damn minds in the business of preventing war, of peace and justice. And what we’re talking about here isn’t just coming out and spewing nonsense. These are problem solvers that are out there, people who will solve the problems that the world faces today. Danny, I know you would have been there because we invited you, but unfortunately you’ve got a family commitment. But people like Danny Haiphong, people out there who are just hooking and jabbing every single day.

Call to Action Against Genocide

Gerald Celente, who puts out Trends Journal, read the damn journal. Sorry, Danny, I’m using bad language, but hey, you invited me. Read it guys, subscribe to it. Why? Because Gerald is right almost all the time.

He gives you the information you need to understand the direction the world is trending in, hence the concept of Trends Journal. Read it, learn from it, act on it, be empowered by it, but even more so, come and support us. You know, we, Gerald and I both have this vision. I don’t know if it’s going to happen this year or not, but damn it, Gerald, let’s shut Kingston down. Let’s fill Kingston up with people who say we’re not going to take it anymore.

There’s a genocide taking place right now in Gaza. America is facilitating it. Israeli snipers just admitted they’re shooting children, 50 a day, shooting them in the head for the crime of trying to get water, trying to get food. 50 children a day paid by our taxpayer money. They’re blowing up buildings, they’re committing ethnic genocide, they’re slaughtering them.

We’re doing this, ladies and gentlemen. Are you mad? Are you going to take it anymore? Or are you going to come out and join us in Kingston? Shut the damn city down.

Shut the thruway down. Shut the country down because that’s what it’s going to take. Let’s do it. Gerald, I’m behind you 100%, pal. Thank you.

The Foundation of Occupy Peace

GERALD CELENTE: Again, you know, this is, it’s not about us. It’s about we the people. And as Scott is saying, we got to close this thing down and we got to make the news with it. This genocide, I got to write about this stuff every day. I’m so heartbroken to see this.

Could you imagine, could you imagine being a Palestinian in Gaza? And what did they call it before this happened? Oh, an open air concentration camp? Yeah. And look what they’re doing to them. Murdering in front of everybody’s eyes.

Again, here’s, by the way, the foundation of occupied peace, which I launched over a decade ago. Close all the military bases overseas, bring home the troops, secure the homeland, and put the troops to work rebuilding our third world infrastructure, give them skills. What are they killing? What do they say? There’s about 20 suicides a day from former people in the military. Bring your spirit up.

And the other thing is you want to go to war, let the people vote. Scott was talking about being in Switzerland, or direct democracy. Switzerland hasn’t been in a war since what, 1856 or something? Let the people vote. I got these little clown boys, little Mike Johnson, little jerk, little Lindsey Graham couldn’t find his way of a paper bag if they made one big enough. They’re telling us what to do?

So that’s what Occupied Peace is. And we need to unite for this because if we don’t unite, it’s going to be hell on earth. We’ve got crazy maniacs in a country near you and they could care less about us. They only care about themselves. So please, you know come to occupied peace and do what you can to support us because it’s about supporting you.

Historic Kingston: The Birthplace of Democracy

Oh, by the way, one other thing. This is the most historic Four Corners in America. It’s the only place with pre-revolutionary war stone buildings on each corner. I went for jury duty, and there’s the courthouse over here, the guy who’s putting on the thing said, you see that picture over my shoulder?

He said, that’s John Jay, the first Supreme Court judge. There’s a judge over here. He goes on to say that when Kingston was the capital of New York state, and then the British burnt it down after the Battle of Saratoga, he said, they wrote the Constitution for New York State right over here, over 70% of America’s Constitution comes from the Constitution that was written here.

So this is where the seeds of democracy was sown, and that’s why we’re doing it here. We want to bring back the democracy that our founding fathers fought for that these little slimeballs stole from us. Now what your old is not going to tell you Danny is that he responded by saying I know I know I was here when it happened.

Final Thoughts and Call to Action

DANNY HAIPHONG: I’m not Donald. Medical Marvel. Yeah, well, gentlemen, I 100% endorse this message. Everyone definitely, you can find the information in the video description below.

I know someone in Gaza right now, I won’t say how because I’m incredibly afraid that Israelis and US Intel will locate them, but I just have no idea what to say when they reach out because it’s exactly what you both outlined.

It is the horrors, the disasters, the genocide. It’s not only sick, but it also is deeply relevant to us here in the United States, and it’s so important that on all of these questions, whether it’s Palestine, Russia, and really the entirety of the Empire’s war agenda, that it’s put to the forefront and that people know that it is relevant to them and they need to put a stop to it if they’re going to experience anything good here now and in the future.

So everybody be sure to go to that link in the video description, attend if you can, support if you’re able. You can find Scott’s sub-stack as well. You can find Trends Journal in the video description as well.

And of course Larry Johnson, who was here earlier, you can find his Sonar 21. Any final thoughts, gentlemen, before I say thank you? Well, I’ll put up the super chats as you’re talking to give them a thanks. But any final thoughts to you?

Gerald, join us Saturday September 27 if there’s anything you’re going to do. If you’re looking at it’s a weekend, weather should be great even if it’s not, get there. You will make a difference, I swear to God you will. Come, be there, empower yourselves, empower us, and let’s make history.

Some things I need to take care of, but I will be back with all of you soon. Thanks, Scott, thanks, Gerald. We’ll head out of here together. Take care, good night. Bye.

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