Call Her Daddy: w/ Jessi Draper on Blackmail, Orgies & Escorts (Transcript)

So what led to the first pausing?

JESSI DRAPER: So we had a first pause that was from production. And I have to say, everyone before I went on reality TV was like, “Be careful. Producers are slimy.” That may be the case for some people. I genuinely love my production — they’re family. I love them. So production and the network, they have been incredible to us. And they did pause things for a minute because I think they were like, “Whoa, we care about you guys as people.” Then we picked back up.

ALEX COOPER: And just to clarify, was that when the initial recent domestic violence —

JESSI DRAPER: This was when we found out he filed a police report. So this was before it broke. They were like, “For everyone’s mental health, let’s take a beat.” And then when news broke — or actually a little bit before news broke, but we knew it probably was going to — us girls decided. So we went to production and the network and they were all so supportive, and they were like, “We totally get it. You guys come first.” They handled it so well. And because of that, I feel like we all felt comfortable being like, “You know what? This is our real lives, and if we want this show to continue to be successful, we have to handle this the right way.”

ALEX COOPER: Were you shocked at all when you heard he did file another domestic violence report?

JESSI DRAPER: Yes, because I’m sure there are situations in the past where he could have and didn’t, and same with her. So because of that, I was like, “Why now?” But I don’t know the reason behind it. Everyone’s kind of speculating on that, but I think maybe he had hit a limit. Maybe. I genuinely have no idea.

The Group’s Response

ALEX COOPER: When the cast then did make the decision — obviously once you guys heard the video was going to come out —

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Who brought the girls together? Who was the person to raise this to you guys? What were those conversations like?

JESSI DRAPER: Honestly, it was us as a whole. We were all in a group message, so we were just like, “Hey, let’s jump on a Zoom call.” And we all got on a Zoom call, and even Whitney was on it, even though she’s not in our lives every single day anymore. And we all just kind of talked about it as a whole, and we’re like, “Hey, how’s everyone feeling? Pulse check. How do you want to handle this?” And we all were unanimously on the same page.

ALEX COOPER: That’s great that there were no disagreements.

JESSI DRAPER: No.

Jordan, Dakota, and the Phone Calls

ALEX COOPER: There is a screenshot going around social media where Taylor called Dakota many times in one night. And in the middle of that, Jordan called and spoke to Dakota. What do you know about that conversation?

JESSI DRAPER: I have to say that in my marriage, it felt like Dakota was the other woman. Dakota and Jordan are so close. So Jordan was on the phone with Dakota all the time. He was with him when he filed the police report. He went over to his house, and he was with him the whole time. And I think he has been in cahoots with Dakota throughout this whole thing.

ALEX COOPER: In those heightened moments, how would you handle — because at the time, this was your husband — him being loyal to Dakota and you being loyal to Taylor?

JESSI DRAPER: That has been the struggle of my life the last two years. He’s best friends with Dakota. I’m best friends with Taylor. So it’s really, really hard. Something ironic — me and Taylor, our birthdays are a day apart. Dakota’s and Jordan’s are a day apart. Same signs. And I’m a lot like Taylor. He’s a lot like Dakota. It’s so weird. So this dynamic has been tricky.

I would hear things from Jordan and Dakota, and I would just kind of take it with a grain of salt, and then I would hear things from Taylor. At the end of the day, my loyalty’s with Taylor — she’s my friend. But it was hard because my husband was in the middle of a lot of it.

ALEX COOPER: And when you say the past two years, what was that shift? What changed in the past two years?

JESSI DRAPER: Just because we got really close with them two years ago when they were still together. And so we were kind of couple-filming this show together, and then all of a sudden, they break up. And then me and Jordan go through our thing last year, and that bonded Dakota and Jordan even more, and then me and Taylor even more.

The Future of Secret Lives

ALEX COOPER: Do you have any idea what all this means for the next season of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives?

JESSI DRAPER: I don’t know, because right now we’re on a film pause. I feel like all of us right now are just trying to be like, “Hey, we’re human beings first,” and let’s figure that out, and then we’ll get back to filming the show. Clearly, there’s no shortage of drama in our lives, so if we get another season, it’s going to be good.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah. What do you think — obviously because of all of this coming out — if you did resume filming —

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: You’re going to have to talk about all of this. What do you think it would take for you to feel comfortable to start filming again?

JESSI DRAPER: I think now we’re at a point where we’re like, “Okay, the world knows, and the info’s out there.” And so now we’re good, and we can speak on the things we know, and we can talk about it in a real way rather than before. We were like, “We don’t even know if this is going to get out.” So we didn’t know if we could even talk about it when we were filming. Now we can.

The Bachelorette Cancellation

ALEX COOPER: This is the first time in the history of the Bachelorette that the show was pulled right before the premiere.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: What was your reaction when you found out?

JESSI DRAPER: I wasn’t super surprised because I felt like there was a lot of discourse online that they probably needed to. But I have to say, I saw Taylor during that journey, and she was a different person. I genuinely feel like she needed to get away from Dakota. She stepped into a really confident, amazing era. I saw her twice, and I was like, “Your aura is different. Your energy is different.” And it was like the old Taylor again.

So I’m so sad because I really wanted people to see that side of Taylor, and maybe one day they will — who knows? But I just felt like it was such a good experience for her. And I’m really sad because it was very wholesome and dramatic, but amazing.

ALEX COOPER: So did you have a heads up or did you find out when the news broke?

JESSI DRAPER: No, I found out when the news broke. Yeah. I was literally dancing with Sasha from Dancing with the Stars. We were doing a little dance lesson. My friend was with us, and she goes, “Pause. Breaking news.” And I was like, “What?”

ALEX COOPER: And when that happens, you just immediately go to the group chat — what were all the other —

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, Taylor was calling me, so I had two missed calls from her, and I was like, “Oh.” So I answered. And she was just like, “How are you?” The thing about Taylor is she’s always checked in — she has her own stuff going on, so sometimes she’s not very present, but she does care about her friends. So she was like, “How are you doing? I just heard.” And I was like, “How are you doing?”

ALEX COOPER: So how is she doing?

Jordan’s Behavior & The Divorce Filing

JESSI DRAPER: I actually talked to her right before I came in here, and she seemed pretty positive today. And I think she knows that this is going to be a long and scary journey. And the thing about Taylor, she always tells the truth. She’s known for that. And I think she’s going to handle this in the best way possible. And I think she’s taking a beat to figure that out. She’s not just running to TMZ and leaking stories. So I think that’s the right way to go about it.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, let’s talk about that. TMZ is having the best week ever. Literally, a renaissance. TMZ is like, “We are so back.” So, Drew, obviously there’s a lot of speculation online that people close to Taylor have been leaking things to the press, or people close to Dakota, or Dakota himself. Have you heard anything about that? Do you know of anyone leaking anything?

JESSI DRAPER: I don’t know who it is, but if I had to guess, it’s Dakota.

ALEX COOPER: Do you think Dakota sold the video to TMZ?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: When you think about him selling that to TMZ, why do you think he did it now? Because he’s been holding on to that for three years.

JESSI DRAPER: Everyone’s speculating about the timing. I definitely think that’s something to do with it. I don’t know if he was holding it over her head for that long. Maybe they were doing that to each other. I have no clue about the ins and outs, but I just think the timing is a little crazy.

ALEX COOPER: So when is the last time you spoke to Dakota?

JESSI DRAPER: Probably two weeks ago. He was at my house a lot because of him and Jordan’s dynamic. So through all of this, he’s actually been at my house quite often. I was never really engaging, but he was around Jordan. So, yeah, probably two weeks ago.

ALEX COOPER: And how were those conversations?

JESSI DRAPER: I didn’t hear a lot of them. I tried to stay out of it because I’m Taylor’s friend. But Jordan and him love to gossip. I will say that.

ALEX COOPER: With everything that’s come out in the past few days, do you think Mom Talk will survive this?

JESSI DRAPER: That is the only time that this phrase applies, and I actually don’t know. We’re falling apart over here.

ALEX COOPER: I think it’s like, there’s the Taylor and Dakota thing, which has been really hard. I think you’re right — we’re seeing people online being like, “This feels so beyond reality TV. This is stuff that we shouldn’t be able to see. This is not something that we should be able to consume just so casually on the Internet.” Then on top of that, like you just said, Taylor’s asking you on the phone, “Girl, how are you doing?” because there’s something serious going on in your life also. The news just broke that Jordan filed for divorce.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Can you set the record straight? Who ended things in the relationship?

JESSI DRAPER: So I actually found out that he filed through TMZ. They texted me, and I was here in LA and I get a text: “Hey, we just saw Jordan filed for divorce. How are you doing?” And I’m like — they’re like, “It’s TMZ.” And I was like, I did end it with him, so I knew it was coming, but we had made an agreement to do it together, and he blindsided me and filed because he wanted the headline first.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, hold on. Finding out about your divorce on TMZ — in that moment when you got that text, how did you feel?

JESSI DRAPER: My heart sunk because, A, we agreed to tell our children together before filing, and we haven’t done that. Including his daughter, who’s like 13 years old.

ALEX COOPER: She found out through TMZ?

JESSI DRAPER: I don’t know if he told her before, but we had made the agreement to tell our kids together, and we didn’t. And luckily they’re young, but it was just kind of a betrayal. And I had this huge packet of paperwork to fill out on how to divide assets and furniture and cars and houses, and we had to fill it out to file. So he went ahead and just did all of that without me. So I have no idea what he put in there.

He also did try — I found out from my lawyer this morning — he tried to put a clause on the divorce that I couldn’t go on any podcast to talk about him.

ALEX COOPER: So, sorry, here we are.

JESSI DRAPER: But I didn’t sign anything. That would all have to be negotiated, and it was just what he wanted, but it’s not going to happen.

ALEX COOPER: What do you think he didn’t want you to be able to speak about?

JESSI DRAPER: There’s a lot.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, we’re going to get into it.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes, we will.

ALEX COOPER: It is also reported that Jordan allegedly filed quickly on Thursday because he did find out that you were coming on Call Her Daddy. What are your thoughts on that?

JESSI DRAPER: I don’t know for sure if he knew, but I think he either — I had told the cast, so the girls knew. And I’m like, did someone tell their husband? Did it get back to Jordan? But maybe he also just knew I was in LA and speculated. But he was definitely trying to get ahead of something, which is ironic because I’m the one who ended it. I told him on Friday the 13th, so not that long ago. And I just said, “I want a divorce.” He definitely didn’t want it, and now he’s the one rushing to do it, which is a little strange.

Escorts, Orgies & The Money Trail

ALEX COOPER: We’re going to get into all of that — how you obviously told him. First, I need to acknowledge, because literally right before we just sat down, more news broke. It was reported that allegedly Jordan’s been involved in some pretty shady behavior for years, including allegedly spending money on escorts with your money. What is your response to that?

JESSI DRAPER: So it’s funny because when he filed the divorce — I ended it, and it’s irreconcilable differences is what we’re saying. But he put in the papers that we ended it because I had an affair. And he’s talking about Marciano, the person I kissed a year and a half ago. That’s what he put as the reason. And I was like, “What? We’ve worked through that. It’s already been proven on TV that I didn’t sleep with him.” So crazy.

But the ironic thing about that is I do have proof and screenshots that when season one dropped, I had an escort service reach out to me, and they sent me screenshots of his phone number and messages, and he was trying to meet up with them. He got a hotel room, and I have all of that. And so he’s — I protected him through all the Marciano stuff, and he denied it to me when I brought it to him. And he said, “We’re in Hollywood now. People are going to try to do this to tear us apart. It’s probably AI.” But it wasn’t. It was real.

ALEX COOPER: How did you find out it was real?

JESSI DRAPER: Someone messaged me, and she works for the escort service. She called me and was like, “I work for this. You can look into it.” She sent me so much proof.

ALEX COOPER: So you can confirm by speaking to this woman that he was involved with escorts?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah. And she sent the screenshots and his — it’s his phone number. She wouldn’t have known his phone number. I literally have it.

ALEX COOPER: And what kind of proof was she showing you?

JESSI DRAPER: Just the messages he had sent and his phone number being attached. Also, she said this happened while he was in Texas, and he was in Texas doing summer sales at the time. And this was before we filmed the show, so no one would have known that.

ALEX COOPER: So do you know if after that moment he continued with other escorts?

JESSI DRAPER: I don’t know. But I do know that literally, like, a month ago, my sister was out to dinner with her husband, and a friend of his came up to them and he’s like, “Hey, how are you doing? By the way, are Jessi and Jordan still married?” And they were like, “Yeah, why?” And he goes, “I go to these parties, and he’s always there. And especially when they had their daughter, he was there a lot. That was the time he was being seen.” So I don’t have proof of those, but that’s what I’ve heard.

ALEX COOPER: When you hear that, where does your head go?

JESSI DRAPER: You know what’s so messed up is my sister told me this a few weeks ago, and she was like, “I’m so sorry,” expecting me to cry. And I was like, “You know what? This was my final straw. I needed to hear this to be okay with moving on.”

ALEX COOPER: Now looking back, you did, in a form, protect him, because you went through this whole scandal of kissing Marciano twice, which, by the way —

JESSI DRAPER: I kissed Marciano like two weeks after I found out about the escort stuff. And so I do think that influenced my decision. Not that it was okay, but I protected Jordan when that all came out.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, wait, hold on. So you find out before season one about the escort?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: You start filming season one?

JESSI DRAPER: No, we had filmed season one when it dropped. We were in New York, and I found out when it was live. Season one just came out. We’re in New York doing press, and that’s when I found out.

ALEX COOPER: And he completely denies the whole thing?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Then you get proof, and he continues to deny it?

JESSI DRAPER: I showed him the proof, and he was like, “No. They’re going to try to do this to us.”

ALEX COOPER: Then the Marciano thing happens two weeks later. Why did you protect him?

JESSI DRAPER: Because he denied it. And at the time, I did believe him, where I was like — I think I was just putting my head in the sand, and I was like, “I don’t want to know anything. It’s fine.” I just really tried to believe him. And then I did actually kiss someone. So then I felt so guilty. And when this came out, I just was like, “I have to own it, because I did something wrong. I don’t want anyone to think I’m trying to deflect.”

ALEX COOPER: So when do you think you stopped believing him?

JESSI DRAPER: I think I always did believe it deep down. But then after the way he reacted during the Marciano stuff made me question it, because you know how they say if someone else is hiding something, they’re going to accuse you of more? I think that’s what made me realize — I’m like, “Are you hiding something? So you’re putting it all on me.”

ALEX COOPER: Okay, we’re going to get to the Marciano thing because I want to go through all of that. But when it is alleged that he was using your money to pay for parties and for escorts —

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Can you confirm that?

JESSI DRAPER: I mean, it’s hard to say. At the time of the escorts, he did work, so it could have been his. But when you’re married, everything’s both of yours. As of the last three years, everything has been my money. He does not work. I provide everything. And so if anything’s happened within the last three years, it had been my money for sure.

ALEX COOPER: And when this site was saying that he was paying for parties, what kind of parties do you think he was paying for?

JESSI DRAPER: I have to believe they’re orgies. Sex parties. I don’t know what other kind of parties you would pay for. So that’s what I have to believe. I’ve actually never asked him about this. I’ve just heard about it. But the funny thing is, I heard through my sister who heard from someone who was there, and now it’s also being reported. So I’m like, clearly there’s some truth to it.

ALEX COOPER: Do you think any other people in Dad Talk were participating in these orgies?

JESSI DRAPER: I have no idea. I actually haven’t even thought about that possibility until now. I have no clue.

The Fallout: Public Reaction and Separation

ALEX COOPER: We’re like, back to season one of Swinging Worse. We’re like, wait.

JESSI DRAPER: We’re taking it up a notch, you know?

ALEX COOPER: Have you talked to any of the women about this?

JESSI DRAPER: I have only told Macy and Michaela.

ALEX COOPER: What is their response?

JESSI DRAPER: They were like, “He’s disgusting.” To be fair, everyone in my life — friends, family, employees — everyone hates him. When I got divorced, everyone I’ve told so far, it’s been like, “Congratulations.” Not one person has been like, “I’m so sorry.”

ALEX COOPER: I was going to say the entire Internet is like, “Thank God she’s out.”

JESSI DRAPER: Yes. Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: That felt — seeing the public’s response be so, not only just positive to your divorce, but grateful that you’re removing yourself from this.

JESSI DRAPER: It was validating in a way, because I’m like, “Okay, I made the right decision.” If everyone feels this way, there’s got to be a reason. Because I was a little bit in denial for a while.

I will say, there is a part of me — like, he’s getting ripped apart online right now, and I do feel bad. People are talking about his looks, his personality, saying he’ll never date anyone again. There is a part of me that’s like — it’s not that I chose to break up with him because of it, but the timing just lined up that way. So I do feel guilty. But.

ALEX COOPER: But do you think he actually won’t date anyone ever again?

JESSI DRAPER: No.

ALEX COOPER: Has he been seeing anyone since you guys have been separated in the past few —

JESSI DRAPER: Well, it’s funny because when I left him, he was trying to be like, “You’re probably cheating on me again,” because that’s his only thing he blames me about. But I was like, “No, this is because I’m not in love with you. This isn’t about anyone else. I want to be alone.” But I do think he’s been talking to people.

ALEX COOPER: People.

JESSI DRAPER: I’ve heard that through the grapevine, so.

ALEX COOPER: But now you can even see from your energy, you’re like, “I don’t give a f*.”

JESSI DRAPER: No.

ALEX COOPER: Like, literally, get away from me.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

Jordan Files for Divorce

ALEX COOPER: Have you been in touch with Jordan since he filed?

JESSI DRAPER: So he texted me, I think, because he knew the news was going to be coming out after I got the TMZ text, and he was like, “By the way, I filed, but I didn’t know it was going to be public.” And I was like, “That’s funny, because you gave him a statement. You literally emailed TMZ what to say.”

So he was like, “Well, I was advised that it was what was best for me.” And I was just like, “Do not talk to me anymore. We will handle the kids through a —” He has a history of being emotionally abusive. And so I was like, “I’m not going to get into this. We’re done here, and we’re going to handle the kids through someone else.”

ALEX COOPER: Is it true? I heard you changed your phone number.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah. He has no clue what it is now. I had my old phone to communicate with him about the kids, but he doesn’t know my new phone number. It’s going to be very separate now.

ALEX COOPER: How did you decide that was the right decision for you?

JESSI DRAPER: Because he’s spied on me in the past. Do you want to hear a funny story?

ALEX COOPER: Please.

The Harry Jowsey Incident

JESSI DRAPER: You know Harry Jowsey?

ALEX COOPER: Yes.

JESSI DRAPER: So we have the same birthday. So last May — this was when me and Jordan are separated — I responded to Harry’s story, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh. Birthday twins.” He voice memos me, and you know how he talks. He’s like, “You naughty kitten.” Whatever.

ALEX COOPER: He’s like, “You naughty little possum.”

JESSI DRAPER: That’s what it was. He was like, “How’s your birthday going, naughty possum?” And I was like, “Good. How’s yours?” He’s like, “Great. I’m going on a hike.” That’s it.

Okay. This is an Instagram DM. I’m in Europe. I get a call at 4am from Jordan. He’s like, “Do you have to tell me something?” And I was like, “What do you mean?” He went to the links. He hacked my Instagram. While we’re separated, he created a fake phone number to then send himself the audios and then have the phone number say, “Dude, I think you should know about this. Your wife’s cheating on you.”

So he accused me of cheating on him with Harry Jowsey, said it was someone else, and then I found out it was him. And that’s all it was. The audios are so innocent. It was just like, “Hey, how are you, Jessi?”

ALEX COOPER: That’s insane.

JESSI DRAPER: So that’s why I got a new phone number, because he has done stuff like that. He’s tracked me. He’s listened in on my cameras in my house. So I was like, I have to do things where he can’t look through my stuff.

Surveillance and Control

ALEX COOPER: How did you find out he was tracking you?

JESSI DRAPER: Well, he has my location, but he’s very weird. If I ever turned it off, he’s like, “Why did you turn off your location?” He’s very strange about it.

ALEX COOPER: And with the cameras and all that — that is a full safety issue.

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, yeah. There were times I was on the phone during our separation that he would repeat conversations back to me, and he’s like, “I listened in on the camera.” And now that he’s at home, he’s unplugged all the cameras, so I can’t do anything. I wouldn’t try to anyway. But he’s calculated.

ALEX COOPER: Like, what? You’re the one paying for escorts. You’re the one going to orgy parties. And then his paranoia is completely being projected onto you.

JESSI DRAPER: He gets to be the victim, you know?

ALEX COOPER: And you’re like, “Wait, how do you even think of this s*?” It’s like, because he’s doing it himself.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes. Yep.

Living Arrangements and the Kids

ALEX COOPER: Are you still living together in that house?

JESSI DRAPER: No. So I left. When I left, I said, “We need to figure out what to do at the house.” And he was like, “Well, you can stay in the spare bedroom of the house I paid for.” And I was like, I think I’m going to leave, because he does have a history of being emotionally abusive, and we have had really bad fights where I’ve also been really angry — don’t get me wrong. And I was like, “I don’t think it’s good for us to live together right now.” So I’m at a hotel again, and that’s where I’ve been for the last week and a half.

ALEX COOPER: But, Jessi, why are you always the person that has to leave the house when you are the sole provider? You paid for that house. That’s your house.

JESSI DRAPER: I mean, I have a text where he’s like, “You wanted this, so you can leave.” He’s making me. But also he’s like, “Well, you can stay in the spare bedroom if you want.” But I don’t feel right about living there with him. Also, he could spy on me if I’m at the house. He could have cameras that I don’t know about. So I’m kind of like, I need to have that space and distance, but I’m going to sell the house, and we’re going to each get our own place.

ALEX COOPER: How are the kids doing?

JESSI DRAPER: They don’t know yet. So that’s the sad part about him leaking this before I did — I have no idea what they’re thinking, or if he told them while I’m out of town without telling me. They’re young. They’re six and three, so they’ll be okay.

ALEX COOPER: You’ve been able to FaceTime?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah, I FaceTime them this morning, and it was funny because I was talking to Jagger, my son, and Jordan was kind of snapping at him. And I was like, “Jordan, don’t do that.” And he goes, “Don’t talk to me.” And I was like, “Okay, so that’s how this is going to be.” So it’s kind of hostile between me and Jordan at the moment, but the kids are going to be fine.

ALEX COOPER: And so are the kids staying in the house with Jordan while you’re in the hotel?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah, I’ve tried. I’ve seen them a little bit where I’m like, “Hey, I’m going to take them.” And he’s like, “Well, you can’t take them overnight in a hotel.” So he’s trying to control me. But I’ve been to a lawyer, and we’re going to do a 50/50 custody agreement.

But I’ve provided for those kids their whole lives. They want their mom. They know who their mom is, and I know I’m a good parent. I know he’s going to try to mom shame me — that’s going to be his MO. But I know my kids are going to be just fine.

ALEX COOPER: You’re ready?

JESSI DRAPER: Yes.

Looking Back: The Early Days with Jordan

ALEX COOPER: There’s so much you just said, and I know there’s so much we’ve seen also on television, but I also know there’s a lot that we haven’t seen because there’s so many cast members and there’s only so much of your life that can be shown. So I do kind of want to go back and talk about your relationship, because I want to eventually get to how you confronted him, that you said you wanted a divorce, what his reaction was. We’re going to get into all that, but first, let’s just unpack — when you look back at the early days with Jordan, what was your relationship like in the very beginning days?

The Marriage: Control, Blackmail, and Emotional Abuse

JESSI DRAPER: It was good. We met very quickly. I blame our dynamic on that, honestly, because I had been married before, so this is my second divorce, and I separated. So to put it into context, I separated from my first husband in September and I got married in March. So it was really quick. I think I leaned on him for emotional support. He was going through a breakup, so was I. And we just kind of connected and clicked on. And I think that I had been treated really badly in my first marriage as well, which now looking back, I’m like, this is a pattern. Like, I get into these situations because I’m self conscious and I have issues. But he was there for me, so I think I just dove right in. The first year was fine, though.

ALEX COOPER: So would you say that first year you weren’t arguing that much?

JESSI DRAPER: No. Yeah, it was pretty good. But I actually think that looking back, he’s always been pretty controlling and I think at the time I was just happy to be out of my last marriage. We had just had our son. I was just kind of in a bubble. And then I started to notice patterns.

ALEX COOPER: What would typically set off an argument between the two of you?

JESSI DRAPER: His control. I felt controlled in every aspect of my life. And he used to try to say, “Oh, I can’t control you. You’re not able to be controlled. I try and I can’t,” because I’m independent.

ALEX COOPER: In those early days, what do you look back and be like, “Oh, that was fully control,” and maybe I didn’t see it at the time?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, my God. I mean, it’s just, he tries to control every aspect of my life. My business, how I should run my business. He would mom shame me and tell me how to parent, but then not do it himself. If I left the fridge door open, you know, that beep that happens, I’d get yelled at. So to this day, when I hear a beep of the fridge, my body goes into fight or flight. It’s just little things like that that add up. But also, if I wanted to go to dinner with friends, it was like, “Well, when are you going to be home? What are you doing?”

ALEX COOPER: “Where are you?”

JESSI DRAPER: Just constant.

ALEX COOPER: And was there any patterns when the arguments would start? What do you look back on?

JESSI DRAPER: I think that’s why our relationship got to a pretty bad place, is because I’m pretty vocal and independent. So for the first year or two, I was just like, okay. And I think Jordan wants someone submissive. So I was kind of like that in the beginning. And then it started to get to this place where I’m like, no. And I would fight back. And so then it was just really bad because I’m fighting back, and that makes it worse for him. And so we’re just going at it.

ALEX COOPER: Are there any things that he would verbally criticize you for?

JESSI DRAPER: Everything. Everything. I remember being in therapy before we were in the public eye and being like, “I need you to criticize me less. It’s like 90% criticism and 10% compliments.” Anything I did, how I ran my business, how I parented, my time management, how I cleaned the house, every little thing. Even how I would dress and, you know, things like that.

ALEX COOPER: What would he say about how you dress?

JESSI DRAPER: “That skirt’s a little short. Are you going to wear that?” Just stuff like that. So it just felt like I was constantly being dumped on.

I will say, right before we separated last year, after the Marciano stuff, he had told me he wanted me to start doing Pilates every single day. And then he said, “I believe in traditional gender roles, and I want to be more in my masculine, and I want you to be more in your feminine.” And I was like, “Do you know who you’re married to?”

ALEX COOPER: That is so backwards. And also, how crazy for him to physically expect you to —

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: — do Pilates every single day, be the breadwinner, take care of the children, take care of him. There was such an unrealistic expectation when he’s not even raising himself to any capacity of that standard.

JESSI DRAPER: And to be fair, also, he doesn’t work and we had a full time nanny, so he wasn’t even helping with the kids until nighttime.

ALEX COOPER: Was there anything that he expected to get approval over in your relationship from you?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, yeah. I feel like everything. It felt like I couldn’t make a move without talking to Jordan about it. I had to get his advice, his opinion. But the thing is, I never wanted to confide in him either because he’s not someone that is like, “Yes, let me help you feel better and give you advice in a logical way.” It’s always putting me down while he’s giving me advice, and playing devil’s advocate but telling me what I did wrong.

ALEX COOPER: And how would he justify that to you?

JESSI DRAPER: He’s like, “I just know things. I’m smart in these areas. You should listen to me. Look at all the mistakes you’ve made. Look at all the friends you’ve lost. You need to listen to me.” And now that I’m saying these out loud, I’m like, this is weird.

ALEX COOPER: No, no, it’s not.

JESSI DRAPER: It’s —

ALEX COOPER: First of all, do not feel weird or shame or embarrassed. I think so many women relate to this. It’s more I’m cringing at him because of the self righteousness that these men have over women. When again, it’s like, you’re home, you’re the breadwinner, you’re the one that’s working. You’re the one that was on Mom Talk. We will get to Dad Talk. Don’t worry. Can you explain, though, what did a conflict actually look like between the two of you? You’re in the house, you’re going through this dynamic. What was that like, the last five years?

Blackmail and the Breaking Point

JESSI DRAPER: We fought every single day, every single day. Imagine being in that with your partner who you’re supposed to trust the most.

I would say the worst it got — and actually why I separated from him last year — is because this was the Pilates conversation. It got to a point where he was blackmailing me with Marciano texts, and he had them on a draft on his phone on TikTok. And anytime he was mad at me, he’s like, “I’m going to post them. I’m going to ruin your life.”

So we were fighting over this Pilates stuff, and he was like, “I’m going to post the TikToks.” And so I went to go grab his phone. I was like, “Jordan, no.” At this point, no one knew about what I had done. And I was like, “You’re going to ruin my life. I employ 50 people. This could ruin everything.”

So he’s like, okay. And I’m freaking out. I’m trying to get his phone. I’m kind of chasing him, trying to get it. He pulls out his phone, starts recording me, and he’s like, “What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Are you going to be like Taylor? Should I call the cops?” And I was like, whoa. Because he’s friends with Dakota, so he’s hearing things like that, obviously. And so he’s baiting me, trying to be like, “Oh, what are you doing?”

And that was the moment where, for me, I was like, what am I doing? I am chasing around my husband trying to get his phone so he doesn’t blackmail me. This is not healthy. And I literally left him the next day. I was like, this can’t happen anymore.

ALEX COOPER: I mean, you’re a complete prisoner in your own home. From what I understand, he decided to stay with you after that information.

JESSI DRAPER: There was not even a second where he didn’t. So, yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And then he continues to use this information as blackmail to further control you in the relationship.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: Knowing that this cycle is going to continue because you’re going to feel like — because you do feel guilty about what you did.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Also now having the information that you did know about the escorts that he completely gaslit you into believing didn’t exist, when now we know that actually was the case.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And he was the first person to step outside of the marriage. I’m not saying what you did was okay, but you kiss this man twice, you do not sleep with him, and this man is now blackmailing you into fearing for your career and your reputation. That’s horrible.

JESSI DRAPER: It is. And I should not have done what I did. I regret it so much. I just want to make that so clear. For my kids to have to hear about that one day, I want to take full responsibility, of course.

But having your partner blackmail you in that way was something I could never get over. Even after we got back together and went through therapy. The person that you love the most and should care about you the most, even though you hurt them, should never put you in a situation where you feel like you’re walking on eggshells and you never know if your life’s about to be ruined and they have that power over you. So that was honestly something that really ruined us. And it was traumatizing.

ALEX COOPER: It’s traumatizing and it’s really sick because it’s like he’s getting off —

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: — on enjoying watching you have to be beholden to him.

JESSI DRAPER: The control, completely.

Recognizing the Pattern of Emotional Abuse

ALEX COOPER: When you look back from the beginning days to now, you can see the clear delineation between, like, “Oh, this is not the best relationship,” to “This is emotional abuse.” Did it feel in the beginning, when those really big fights started, like, “Okay, maybe this is just normal relationship struggles”? Or from the beginning did you immediately start to be like, “This is unhealthy. How do I get out?”

JESSI DRAPER: So my first marriage was pretty emotionally abusive, worse than this one. And I again got married so quickly that I didn’t have time to heal from that. So I think I attracted the same type of person without realizing. And I think in my head I was justifying it because I’m like, “No, Jordan saved me from my other marriage. He’s my savior.” That’s how I saw him. Like, he saved me from this dynamic. So there’s no way he’s doing this to me.

And then over time, the same patterns of what I saw before in my past relationship arose. And I was like, “Oh.” But I had never said it out loud to anyone. My friends and family were aware. They knew that he didn’t treat me well. No one liked him. They would bring it up to me, but I would just kind of be like, “That’s Jordan.”

But then in season four, you see my energy healer. I was doing a session with her and this was the same night of that Pilates fight, actually. I sat down and she goes, “Are you safe?” And I was like, “What do you mean?” She goes, “I just have a feeling I need to ask you.” And I just told her everything. And it was the first time I said it out loud. And that was the moment also that I was like, I have to leave him. And that’s why we separated last year. Because as I’m saying it out loud, she goes, “Jessi, this is emotional abuse.” And it didn’t click to me until that moment.

ALEX COOPER: How did it change for you after you said it out loud?

The Emotional Toll of Abuse and the Relationship Dynamic

JESSI DRAPER: It was like a weight had fallen off where I was like… And it was almost like something clicked and I was like, seeing it clearly for the first time. And I was like, oh. I just kind of was like, that’s Jordan’s personality. Like, this marriage is hard, you know, which it is, but that’s how I justified it. But when she literally… I had someone saying, “This is emotional abuse.” And then I started opening up to my friends and family and they were like, “Jessi, this isn’t normal.” It felt like the glass had shattered.

ALEX COOPER: Well, and just to also validate any woman who is going through this, it’s like so many people can be like, “Oh my God, is there a pattern?” Like, you went through this in your first marriage, then the second. Of course there’s a pattern because it’s so hard to break out of. It’s familiar. It’s something that you get used to. It’s like you’ve been beaten down and you’re sitting there and your self-worth is depleted and you’re not feeling good about yourself.

So then you find someone like a Jordan who… emotional abuse does not just start day one. It is this very crazy, confusing, masked thing that you can’t… it’s not tangible, you can’t see it. And it’s psychological. And when it’s so embedded psychologically, there is also something within you that is willing to be like, “But maybe I am not worthy. And this is maybe what I am going through.” So maybe I deserve this, or maybe this is normal, because if you’ve only lived seeing that… and I don’t know much about your upbringing, but did you have a good representation of love in your life?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah, I have the best family. So that’s what’s crazy — my parents, my sisters, like, best family in the world. Which, by the way, my sisters love you and they’re so excited I’m here. But no, I have the best family. I think it was like childhood wounds of not feeling good enough with other friends and things like that. And then I got into things where I didn’t feel good enough already. And then I got into that and it was like ten times worse.

And you’re right, it’s familiar. So I looked for the same person subconsciously because it’s what I was used to. And that quote is so old, but it’s so true — “You accept the love you think you deserve.” And that’s what happened to me.

Watching It Back: The Show’s Portrayal of the Relationship

ALEX COOPER: I think it was season three. I remember just feeling so bad for you and your family when your sisters were sitting on the ground, your mom was there. I could tell your mom wasn’t even shocked, and she was hoping you would really just end it. It was when you guys were about to go into the 90-day break and your sister was like, “You haven’t been Jessi for so long.” And it was like this outcry to you, but also you could tell she was so aware — like, she couldn’t get to you, but she wanted you to know that she still remembered who you were without this abuse. And she knew you were going to come back to yourself one day. And it takes you being… like, no one can get you out of it but yourself. Right?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that up because I do feel like I’ve been a shell of myself in this relationship. And I used to tell that to Jordan. He’s like, “That’s not true. You have every right to make your own life.” And I’m like, your partner affects you so much. They can influence every single thing about your life, your happiness. And I did lose myself, and the people closest to me saw that.

The Physical and Emotional Impact on Intimacy

ALEX COOPER: Can you talk a little bit about what kind of romantic connection you and Jordan were able to maintain with each other while having this emotionally abusive relationship?

JESSI DRAPER: So our sex life was pretty good for a while because, again, I hadn’t really realized what was going on. I was just kind of hiding it. But I will say, since the separation and getting back together, my body has told me. I want women in this situation to know that your body will tell you.

Anytime he tried to have sex with me, I would clam up. I would have panic attacks after, I would cry after. I didn’t want him to touch me. Like, even if he was just passing me in the house and grabbed my arm or whatever, I was like, “Don’t touch me.” And I would say that to him and he’s like, “What’s wrong with you?” But your body knows.

So I just want anyone in this situation — men or women — to listen to their body. That book, The Body Keeps the Score — of course. My body was trying to tell me for like a whole year that we’re not safe.

ALEX COOPER: You can’t relax and enjoy yourself in an intimate setting with someone that you don’t feel safe with.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

Jordan Quitting His Job and the Provider Dynamic

ALEX COOPER: I also think there was such a highlight when we would watch the seasons — the success of your business and Mom Talk. Jordan did end up quitting his job so that he could help with the kids and so he could film more. Initially, were you guys aligned on that decision for him to quit his job?

JESSI DRAPER: Yes, because at the time he quit, we had just had our daughter, so she was a newborn. We had our toddler as well, and he was traveling for work — Texas, California, all over the place. And I was like, “I can’t run a business, start to film this show, and raise two kids.” So I did initiate that. I was like, “I need you to…” But I did say, “I need you to find something here.” I thought he was still going to work. He just took that as, “I’m going to quit.”

And I was making good money, so he didn’t need to work. But looking back, I’m like, I should have had him help out with the kids more. Like, he got to golf all day, you know.

ALEX COOPER: How do you think becoming the sole provider of the family impacted your relationship long term?

JESSI DRAPER: I think that for me, in the future, I am totally fine being that person. I’ll probably always make the most money. But I do want a guy that has passions and something of his own. It doesn’t matter how much money he makes.

But I will say with Jordan — since he believes in traditional gender roles — I think he really loved the lifestyle I provided. But he had a really hard time being like, “I’m not the man, I’m not the provider,” which is such a Mormon, toxic way of thinking. All the men in our group — a lot of them had those issues. So I think he was very intimidated by it. But he also liked having the money.

ALEX COOPER: It’s like his ego, once the door opened and it was public, couldn’t take it. But behind the scenes, he’s like, “I love this. I’m golfing.” Someone checks him and he’s embarrassed and can’t take it.

JESSI DRAPER: Exactly.

ALEX COOPER: Did he ever start to make any comments to you negatively about how being a stay-at-home dad made him feel?

JESSI DRAPER: He told me from the beginning — well, not from the beginning, but when he quit his job. He said, “I believe in gender roles.” And he would say, “I’m just not meant to be in that role.” And he would mom-shame me a lot. Like, “The kids need their mom. You’re gone a lot. I can’t fill that role. I’m the dad and I’m not meant to be a stay-at-home dad. I don’t want to do that.”

So it was hard for me because I’m like, I want a partner that, if I do have to work and travel for that job, I can trust that the dad wants to be with the kids. Like, this is a partnership. You’re not a babysitter. You chose to have these children.

ALEX COOPER: Right. It’s also just so unfair. It’s like he’s getting to enjoy all the spoils of your hard work, but then he’s also like, “And you have to do all the stuff that I’m also not really doing that I should be doing, because I’ve got to go golf. I’ve got a tee time at 8am, babe.” And you’re like, “Do you know how—”

JESSI DRAPER: —many times I’ve heard that sentence?

ALEX COOPER: There’s no way. It’s so bad.

Dad Talk and the Competition It Created

ALEX COOPER: Eventually, Jordan did — I don’t even want to say return to work — kind of through Dad Talk. What was your initial reaction to that?

JESSI DRAPER: So at first the dads got together to make funny videos to make fun of us. So we were like, “This is hilarious.” I don’t think we ever thought it was going to turn into what they tried to make it. As time went on, I was like, “Okay, this is cringy. I don’t like this.”

And it became a thing with me and Jordan where it was competitive. Like, we were competing. “You got this opportunity, you got this many followers, you got this many views. Look what I got.” He became very competitive with it. And I was like, “This is gross. Men should not be acting this way in a relationship where you’re threatened by my success that pays our bills.” So it turned into a really hostile thing for us.

ALEX COOPER: Did you talk about this with the other women? Like, did they feel this also — like, “I’m cringing from Dad Talk”?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, all of us, yes. We all made fun of it. We’re like, “What is happening?” And it’s hard because the audience is always like, “Less Dad Talk.” And we’re like, “We agree.” But also, they’re in our lives and this is about our lives. So it’s really hard to not have them around. But now for me, it’ll be easier.

ALEX COOPER: No, that’s a good point. I remember he said, “Dad Talk doesn’t need to be in Mom Talk’s shadow.” But first of all, there wouldn’t be a Dad Talk if there wasn’t Mom Talk. And everything that you guys have built — did you feel like he was riding on your coattails?

JESSI DRAPER: 1,000%. I mean, any brand deal that he got was because of me. We had to do them together. He maybe has gotten one or two on his own. But like, we did one with Cafe Rio — we had to do it together. So everything was tied to me. And even on Cameo, he’ll try to be like, “Come say hi in this Cameo.” So it’s like you’re getting used—

The Affair and Emotional Abuse

ALEX COOPER: Going back to the affair, I think that obviously now even just sitting here, I’m trying to rack my brain because I obviously didn’t know that the escorts came before Marciano. So I’m sure everyone’s watching this and we’re all like the meme of the woman doing the math. I’m like, hold on. It really changes so much because I’m sure people are going to go back and clip things of, like, the way he acted and how he was so upset with you and the betrayal, which was so fair. But now I’m like, oh my God, he was such a liar. When you look back, you said that that moment was essentially a cry for help when you stepped outside of the marriage. What did you mean by that?

JESSI DRAPER: So I felt so trapped in that marriage. I couldn’t do anything right. I was so beaten down emotionally, and I was just so unhappy, deeply unhappy in what I was in. But I felt trapped. Not only with my money and my business, like you saw in season four, but also just he made me feel like I couldn’t leave. And for my kids, too. So I was just really, really upset.

And I met Marciano, and it was the first person who was nice to me and told me I was cool and pretty and fun and that I was worth something. And I just remember being like, oh, this is how a man should talk to you. And not that it’s okay what I did by any means, but I do feel like I was like, I remember thinking, like, if I do this tonight, just kissing him, by the way, it will give me a reason to be done. Like, it’ll give Jordan a reason to leave me. Like, I can be free.

ALEX COOPER: And so in a way, it was like you were looking for an out. You were almost kind of trying to self-sabotage.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes. Even if it was me that did the bad thing, I was like, maybe this could end it.

ALEX COOPER: And when you guys went on that 90-day break and you did decide to stay together, what was fueling you to not just walk away?

JESSI DRAPER: I was so scared. And that’s how I felt the last year, to be honest. But I was scared of being alone. I was scared of hurting him. I was scared of the unknown and the kids. I’ve been divorced before and it sucked. And this time I have kids, so I’m like, I don’t want to go through that and put my family through it with the business and the prenup and all that. There was just so much weighing on me with that. So I was just scared. I was really, really scared.

ALEX COOPER: In that time, obviously we saw some stuff on camera, but what conversations did this affair coming to light force you to have with Jordan? Like, was there anything you were able to admit about the relationship that you had been previously too scared to say?

JESSI DRAPER: He had been well aware of how I felt about the emotional abuse and all that, but he never acknowledged it until the affair came out and it was public and we started going to therapy during our separation. And in therapy, he finally admitted, “I do know I got you to this place. I am the instigator. I started this cycle. And it was emotional abuse.” He has said all of those words to me. He may deny it now, but he has said all of that. But he had never said that before.

ALEX COOPER: Okay. So that gives a little bit of clarity of why you would be like, okay, maybe there is some path to moving forward. Like someone saying, “I see that this was emotional abuse. I see I got you here. I’m willing to change.”

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah, why not give it a shot, right?

ALEX COOPER: Having kids with someone, you’re like, whoa. Because most people, you’d expect them to never admit that. Of course it wasn’t on camera.

JESSI DRAPER: And I will say the last year Jordan has made some changes. He’s really tried in a lot of areas. But I think for me it was like, you’re trying and you are making changes, but I’m still not in love with you. And at the end of the day, you do deserve to be loved the way that works for you, and same with me. And if you’re going to make these changes, great for yourself. But it doesn’t work for me. But I gave it my all and I had that year to really try. And I don’t regret it now because I did everything I could.

ALEX COOPER: You can genuinely say and look at your kids and be like, I tried.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes.

Self-Image, Cosmetic Procedures, and Coping Mechanisms

ALEX COOPER: Something that is a byproduct of being in a toxic situation or an abusive situation is the way that it impacts your self-image and your self-worth. You posted a really vulnerable TikTok where you opened up about regretting some of the cosmetic procedures that you’ve done recently. Why was that something you decided to share?

JESSI DRAPER: Because I do get a lot of hate for what I get done and I didn’t want everyone watching thinking that I just wanted to look this way or I wanted this. It didn’t go the way I planned and so I wanted to talk about it. But it also has made me realize I got my surgeries after season four and I looked back and I was like, I looked so good in season four. What was I thinking? And I never would have been able to say that before, but it gave me clearer perspective of like, I don’t need to get all this work done.

But I think I was in two marriages where I had two husbands who treated me so badly that I was like, that was the only thing I could control. And that may sound weird, but it was like, I can’t do anything else right. So I can control my appearance. And I think it became a coping mechanism for me.

ALEX COOPER: To have the ability to control something in your life when everything else is chaos is a way that we, in our heads, cope and survive. But I think obviously sometimes then it can be at the detriment of ourselves. We just don’t see it in the moment. What do you think is your biggest regret when it came to those procedures?

JESSI DRAPER: So I got one surgery like three months ago and I just shouldn’t have done any of it. I got an upper and lower bleph and then some fat grafting in the face, but I didn’t want the fat grafting. I just kind of said I just wanted the eyes. And he was like, “Well, you need this to balance it out.” And I was like, okay. I just kind of listened to what I was told and looking back, I’m like, I didn’t need that or want that. So I just wish that I would have not done any of it because I didn’t need it.

ALEX COOPER: And I can imagine, even you saying now you’re getting to this place where you’re watching season four and you’re like, what the f*. I looked great. Yeah, you look great now. Don’t be that hard on yourself. But I get it. It’s more of an internal thing of watching yourself drive yourself to a point where you’re thinking something is going to solve something.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And really that’s not the solve. You could continue to get work done. That’s not really the issue.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

Jordan and the Women of the Show

ALEX COOPER: Throughout season four, all of the women were so vocal about how much they disliked Jordan. It was every scene it felt like. What do you think overall was their biggest issue with him?

JESSI DRAPER: The way he treated me, for sure. They saw things, they heard things. And just the way he’s kind of demeaning to women. And he would talk badly about my friends, which is so weird to be like, my husband’s talking st on my best friend. Like, what do I do? It was such a hard position to be in. And he’s a big mouth and he would tell people things and kind of exaggerate things. You kind of see that play out. But I think those issues were what everyone struggled with.

ALEX COOPER: Well, I almost think there’s a thing with men where you’re like, okay, women, we can gossip.

JESSI DRAPER: No, it’s not for boys.

ALEX COOPER: Literally, this is a woman’s game. Stop gossiping and stirring. You need to get like, this is a woman’s field. Okay. Also, influencing is also our area.

JESSI DRAPER: Thank you. That is how I feel. I’m like, it’s icky.

ALEX COOPER: No, that makes sense. And also seeing their distaste for him, it just felt really palpable where it couldn’t be escaped. I also thought that what was really hard — I remember it was episode one, where you walk in and you have this overnight bag.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And what was so sad, Jessi, was the fact that your friends know the exact bag that you usually carry. If you spent the night at the hotel and you didn’t sleep at your home, it was that obvious to them, because it clearly was occurring quite often. I just, when you would show up to those events and he would be there and you would have your bag, and you would have to put on a brave face — when you look back, is there anything you wish you could have done differently in those moments for yourself?

Emotional Suppression and Vulnerability

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, my gosh. I’m so glad you asked this, because something I’ve realized throughout all this is I have gotten very good at stuffing my emotions down. I’m here because now the show, I have so many things I have to do. I have to be on camera. But before that, I was teaching hair classes and I was running a business. So I get in huge fights with Jordan, and then I have to turn it on and go teach hundreds of people and be there for my employees.

I literally had to learn that as a coping mechanism to the point where it’s really hard for me to cry now, and it’s really hard for me to face my emotions and be vulnerable. The show has helped me. I watched season four, and I was like, oh, I cried more than I thought.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, that’s good.

JESSI DRAPER: It’s progress. But, yeah, I’m very good at just being like, “I’m totally fine.” And I wish that I would have just taken more time to look internally and be like, “You’re not okay, and it’s okay to not be okay, and you don’t have to put on a brave face.” And I’m working on that in therapy now.

ALEX COOPER: No, it’s a great point. It’s like, we watched it in that scene, but then you’re right, you did cry this season. We watched you cry at your anniversary dinner.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Because you were concerned about the future of your relationship. And meanwhile, Jordan suggested renewing your vows.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: How were you both on such different pages in that moment?

JESSI DRAPER: I mean, Jordan wanted this. He wanted to stay. He wanted to make this work. So I think he was just grasping at straws trying to be like, “What can I do?” And maybe he thought it was, like, romantic, but I literally — I think you could see it in my body language. I’m like, “That’s — this isn’t the time.” Like, right. No, it made me feel like he wasn’t even listening to me.

Changing Her Last Name

ALEX COOPER: You recently changed your last name.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, for business purposes is how it was presented. And Jordan did not take it well. And he called you extremely selfish. Now that you are getting divorced, which we’re about to get to, was it really for business purposes, or was that you consciously or subconsciously kind of taking that first step?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah. Yeah, it was an easy first step, almost. I definitely did it for business reasons because my name’s hard to say. Nati Cara is so hard to pronounce, so it made sense. I also have a family business where Draper made sense. But I do think deep down, I was like, “If this ever happens, it’ll be easier because everyone will know me as Jessi Draper already.”

ALEX COOPER: Do you think he kind of knew what was happening and that’s why he was freaking out so much?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, yeah. Completely. And he also — he likes to justify it this way, but he was like — so when I met Marciano in the villa, we had all had a conversation at the villa about our names and how to spell them, and they were trying to figure out how to spell my last name. Everyone was in a group, and I was like, “Well, my other last name’s Draper. You can call me that instead.” And so Marciano would call me that. So he was like, “You’re doing this because you want Marciano again.” And he completely flipped it into something like that. And I think that’s why he called me selfish 20 times and stuff like that.

ALEX COOPER: What is the status of your relationship with Marciano?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, I have not talked to him in almost a year. Yeah, that’s done and over. Don’t worry.

The Decision to Divorce

ALEX COOPER: Okay, let’s go to the divorce.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: What was the actual moment you knew — okay, it’s going to happen. I need this divorce.

JESSI DRAPER: So in the last year, I’ve told him actually a few different times I want to get divorced, but he always calms me down. “Give me a few days. Let’s try to work on it.” He’s better for a few days, and then it goes back. But what happened was I had been in limbo for a while, and anyone that’s lived in limbo knows it’s excruciating. Where I’m like, “I don’t know if this is right or not.”

I literally woke up one day and it was such a simple thought, but I was like, “I can change this. I can change my life. I can be happy. It’s going to be hard, but I can do this and my life doesn’t have to be this way.” And it was like something flipped and I was like, “I’m done.” And I could not go back after that. It was the weirdest thing.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so can you walk me through moment by moment of that day? Like, how did you tell him? Where were you?

JESSI DRAPER: Okay, so that feeling came to me on a Thursday, and I told him on Friday. The next day I wasn’t going to tell him till the weekend because I was like, “Let’s get the kids out of the house and whatever.” But on Friday, he came up to my room. I was getting ready in my closet, and he was like, “I just talked to the kids’ therapist — because we have him in therapy — and she thinks we need to start going together every week with them. Can you make that happen?”

And I was like, “Oh, I’m leaving you this weekend.” But I couldn’t say that. So I was like, “I just don’t know if our schedules are going to work. It may work if you take them and I take them.” And he was like, “Why? The kids are the most important thing. Why?” And I was like, “I — I want to get divorced.” I just said it.

And he was like, “Okay.” And his emotions were calm, then mad. And then he kind of gaslighted me and was like, “You’re not healed enough. That’s why. You can’t love yourself yet, so you need to figure that out first, and then you’ll realize this isn’t what you want.” And then he was like, “You know, you’re cheating on me again.” And I’m like — it was all over the place.

And I just had to be like, “Jordan, I need you to know I’ve thought about this every single day for the last four years, and I’m choosing myself.” And we fought a little bit, but he finally understood.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, so then he finally understands. Does he leave the room and, like, do you just go about your day?

JESSI DRAPER: No, he’s still talking to me. And it kind of got to a point where he was gaslighting me and stuff. So I finally was like — this is how most of our fights are — “I’m leaving. I need you to stop.” And he literally followed me downstairs. And I had to get in my car and drive off.

ALEX COOPER: And then — did you sleep in the house that night?

JESSI DRAPER: No, I have not been back since. I’ve been back to see the kids. I did sleep there one night, actually, but other than that, I’ve been at a hotel.

ALEX COOPER: How was sleeping there that one night?

JESSI DRAPER: So, okay, this is where I think a lot of women will relate. So I was in a hotel and I had a girls’ night with my friends. This was maybe two days after I left. And we were drinking wine and just talking about it. I was so sad. And I could not sleep that night. And at 4am I was like, “I’m ubering home. I want to be with my kids. I want to be in my house.” I just felt so misplaced.

And I went home and I went into the bed and he was there, and I ended up having sex with him because he was like, “Just one more time, one more time.” And I told him no probably 20 times. And I was like, “Okay, but if I do, this doesn’t change anything.” And he was like, “It won’t. It won’t.” And I did. But literally, I’m so glad I did, because after that moment, I was like, “No. Never again. Never again. This was my answer.”

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, “I’m so repulsed by so many things happening right now.”

JESSI DRAPER: I was drunk and sad and I just missed my family. But yeah, it was a good closing of the chapter.

ALEX COOPER: Damn.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And so the next morning you wake up.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And do you just get more clothes and go back to the hotel?

JESSI DRAPER: And I have never been back since to sleep there.

ALEX COOPER: How are you managing that with your kids?

JESSI DRAPER: So I will go over — they go to school in the morning, so he’ll take them to school and then I’ll pick them up and be with them in the evening, put them to bed, and then he’ll come back and we just switch off. So I’m going to get a place soon where we can do 50/50, but I just don’t want to take them to a hotel.

ALEX COOPER: No, it’ll be hard. And this house — do you think he’s ready to get rid of this house?

JESSI DRAPER: Absolutely not. No.

ALEX COOPER: But you’re getting rid of it.

JESSI DRAPER: I think it’s the best thing to do.

The Prenup and Financial Settlement

ALEX COOPER: Can we talk about this prenup?

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Because obviously, season four, we watch you, and every woman is like, “Yeah, no, like, you make the money.” How did this happen? Can you explain — where are you at with the prenup? Are you okay? Are you going to have to give him 50% of everything you own? Where are we?

JESSI DRAPER: So I went to lawyers who are amazing, and they were like, “Okay, it’s actually valid. You don’t need a witness signature as long as both of you have signed it,” which we have. So thank God I don’t have to give him anything for my businesses. But I will have to pay alimony and child support, most likely, and then I might have to do some sort of a payout. We haven’t gotten there yet because he filed yesterday, so I actually don’t know the details of that yet. But I do know he can’t take my business or anything like that. So I’m happy about that.

ALEX COOPER: So he’s not entitled to anything with your business. That’s a completely separate entity.

JESSI DRAPER: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: It existed before you met him. It will continue to exist, and he —

JESSI DRAPER: — never did anything to contribute to it, so.

ALEX COOPER: Right. That’s probably a clause. Like, how much did he contribute?

JESSI DRAPER: If he was working there, maybe, but no.

ALEX COOPER: And when it comes to this, do you feel at all resentful if there’s going to have to be a payout?

JESSI DRAPER: A little bit. Kelsea Ballerini has a breakup album that I have been so resonating with, and I think there was a lyric in there — like, “I had to give him half.” And I resonate with that so much because I’m like, “It sucks that, yes, I made mistakes in this relationship too, and he does deserve something. But all the hard work that I’ve done — I’ve built my business up from the ground, me and my family — and you just get to get a chunk of that.” If I do have to do that — because we have kids, I’m okay with it because I want them to have a dad who has some stability.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, some stuff.

JESSI DRAPER: But yeah, it just sucks.

ALEX COOPER: How do you feel, though? Because you referenced at the beginning of this episode — you said that he put in it was because of the cheating.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: It wasn’t irreconcilable differences.

JESSI DRAPER: Right.

ALEX COOPER: Do you think that’s going to be changed? I mean, you could technically say he also cheated.

JESSI DRAPER: That’s kind of why I’m willing to talk about it now. I mean, it did get leaked, but because I was like, “Well, are you trying to get more money out of me? And that’s the reason you did that? Well, I’m going to tell them what you did, then. There should be no secrets if you’re going to out me like that.”

Moving Forward: Divorce, Dating, and What Comes Next

ALEX COOPER: So how do you think he’s going to react when he hears you talking about this?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh, he’s going to hate this, and he’s going to mom shame me and say I’m a bad mom for doing this. Which, by the way, I’m not excited to go expose this. It does suck for our children.

But I think as a mom, what I’ve had to come to terms with is that I will tell my children about my mistakes, my affair, my plastic surgery gone wrong, this dynamic. I don’t want my daughter to ever be treated the way I’ve been treated. And I’m going to be honest with them.

I think that it’s okay to talk about this because, A, we’re on reality TV. We can’t really hide from it. We can’t have secrets when you’re public. But B, I’m going to teach this to my children and tell them what to avoid and what to change in their lives if this ever happens to them.

ALEX COOPER: And I think that’s the right way to approach it. Like, that’s all you can do, is be honest.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Is he still denying the escorts?

JESSI DRAPER: I have no idea. I haven’t actually talked to him about it in a while. Now that it’s leaking, I may hear from him about it, but I just haven’t brought it up with him since.

ALEX COOPER: It’s going to be really interesting to see with the alleged orgies and the escorts. Like, are there other people in Dad Talk or that world that were also partaking? There’s so much emphasis on you, and especially just the women being these people, and we’re so focused on their wrongdoing. And it’s like, well, what have the men been up to?

JESSI DRAPER: No, literally. I do think the rest of the men are angels, like Jace, Jacob, Connor. The sweetest man. I do not — I know. Absolutely not. I think that Jordan — it sounded like he was partaking in some of this when I was having Jovi, is what it sounds like. And that was before he had met any of those guys. I mean, you never know. But I really think it was just how he’s been for a while.

The Divorce, the Cameras, and Telling Her Truth

ALEX COOPER: Okay. How do you think your divorce will impact Mom Talk and just the future filming in general?

JESSI DRAPER: That’s a good question. Right now, I think we’re all trying to survive, so we’re like, let’s not worry about cameras. Let’s just get through this storm. But I think we are all excited to pick back up and just continue to tell these stories.

I mean, the fact that this is all happening while we’re down — my divorce, I didn’t plan that. But I think it also shows that I made this decision for the right reasons. Because Jordan would always tell me, “You do things for the show. You’re just separating from me for the show.” But I’m like, no, I did this with cameras down. So that shows you I’m serious.

ALEX COOPER: None of that conversation was filmed.

JESSI DRAPER: Nothing. No.

ALEX COOPER: And then he goes to TMZ, and now you’re here in long form getting to tell your truth.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Wow. So when cameras pick back up, you’re going to essentially have to fill in the gaps.

JESSI DRAPER: And I’m sure if we pick back up soon, more is going to happen. This isn’t over.

ALEX COOPER: How does it feel to sit here and tell your story?

JESSI DRAPER: It feels surreal. What’s so crazy is, in season four, I was like, “I really want to go on Call Her Daddy.” I had said that, and I was like, maybe I’ll get to for season three because I just love you. But the timing wasn’t right. It wasn’t right. And now it is.

ALEX COOPER: Well, girl, yeah, we were like — but now I’m getting divorced. So I guess this one —

JESSI DRAPER: I would have come on six months ago and tried to protect him and been like, “We’re working through it.” It wouldn’t have been genuine. And now I get to be free and tell my story. So it feels really good.

Recognizing the Emotional Abuse

ALEX COOPER: It is so sad. And also, like you said, healing — yes. There’s been so much damage done from the relationship. The fact that you are now able to look back and be like, “That was an emotionally abusive relationship. I don’t want my children to ever go through something like that. I don’t want to continue to go through something like that. I need to leave.” I do think it’s also a testament to people watching of how hard it is to leave something that is abusive.

You just said you’ve been thinking about leaving Jordan for four years. And when someone sits there and is like, “But why didn’t you leave?” — go back to what we’ve talked about. The manipulation, the control, all the things. The fact that in a normal situation, you’d say, “I want a divorce,” and they’d say, “Oh my God, okay.” But instead it’s, “No, you’re not healed. You’re not in your right mind.” It’s constant.

JESSI DRAPER: And I still have those thoughts now. I’m still like, even doing this, I’m like, “He’s going to be so mad. Do I need to protect him?” That’s my inner voice right now.

ALEX COOPER: How are you pushing through that and not self-sabotaging and going back to him?

JESSI DRAPER: He pissed me off yesterday by filing. So I’m like, I’m going to burn it down. Shouldn’t have done that.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, “You know what? This is your doing.” I probably would have been a little bit nice.

JESSI DRAPER: He did try to tell me — because I was like, “I’m done talking to you. We have to work through a third party for the kids now.” He goes, “Well, you did this. Just remember that you wanted this.” And I’m like, “I didn’t go to TMZ. You did this. You started this war.”

ALEX COOPER: Right. I wasn’t going to make it messy, but now you’re going to go to TMZ.

JESSI DRAPER: Yep. He started it online. Yep.

Life After Jordan: Dating and What’s Next

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Dating. Like, what are you feeling? Are you going to take some time before you jump back in? Is there anyone that you would be interested in, that you have your eye on? What are we feeling?

JESSI DRAPER: Alex, I haven’t dated since I was 20. I got married at 21, married Jordan right after. I’m so nervous. I’m like a giddy 15-year-old. I’m like, “How do I date?”

ALEX COOPER: You can’t rush into anything.

JESSI DRAPER: That’s my mistake. I know. I’m so impulsive. You know me already.

ALEX COOPER: From your first husband to then Jordan, you were like — and I get it. It’s easier to not be alone at first because it’s the comfort. And right now you’re like, “I don’t want to sleep in a hotel room alone.”

JESSI DRAPER: No, I know. Trust me, I know.

ALEX COOPER: Jumping into something too quick —

JESSI DRAPER: Trust me, I won’t.

ALEX COOPER: You can date.

JESSI DRAPER: No, I want to date. I want to not be tied down. I have my freedom back, so I don’t want to jump into anything. I’m sure I’ll have guys I talk to and stuff, and that’s where I need to be careful because I could jump into something without realizing it. But no, I want to go date and have fun and meet new people. I don’t even know what my type is anymore. Like, who should I date?

ALEX COOPER: I think there’s something really exciting about — I think the world will be really interested to see you single. Not just because it’s going to be fun for content of dating, but more so of, like, what is Jessi like alone and in her power? In her mind, just being confident and getting back to that. That, we probably haven’t been able to fully see on TV.

JESSI DRAPER: Oh my gosh. Chase from the show — I was talking to him because he’s been divorced and he’s been helping me through this. And he said to me the other day, “This is what you’ve accomplished being held back. This is going to be scary to see what you can do.” And I was like, “You’re right. I could do anything.”

ALEX COOPER: Such a good point.

JESSI DRAPER: And I’ve accomplished so much doing that. So I’m excited to spread my wings and just be like — no, I can do whatever I want.

ALEX COOPER: No, I’m really excited for you. And I think that even again, to see the Internet’s reaction being like, “B, thank God. Get out of here. Get rid of him. Let’s go.” The whole season felt like we were just like, “So you’re getting a divorce or not?”

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah. Everyone’s like, “Leave that man.”

ALEX COOPER: Oh.

JESSI DRAPER: The minute the show came out, I woke up to hundreds of comments like, “Leave him, leave him.” And I just didn’t tell Jordan. I’m sure he saw it, but —

ALEX COOPER: Sure he saw. Yeah.

JESSI DRAPER: But no, the fact that this is being celebrated — Miranda said that in the season. She’s like, “The fact that —” Oh, also Miranda — shout out, my friends, all of them: Michaela, Macy, Miranda, Layla, Taylor. They have been there for me so much. I just want to give them a shout out. But Miranda told me, “This is going to be celebrated.” And it has. And it’s been the craziest feeling.

ALEX COOPER: Even when he’s trying to play dirty.

JESSI DRAPER: Yep.

Rapid Fire: Season Four, Mom Talk, and Demi

ALEX COOPER: Okay, before we go, we have to do a little rapid fire from this season. Will there be a season four reunion, you think?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh my gosh. I actually have no idea. I don’t know because we’re on a pause now. It probably would have filmed soon. Maybe. Do people want it? I guess — sound off.

ALEX COOPER: Yes. Who in Mom Talk are you closest with right now?

JESSI DRAPER: Macy and Michaela. They’re my best friends. I love them.

ALEX COOPER: When was the last time you talked to Demi?

JESSI DRAPER: I haven’t talked to Demi since the season three reunion. You guys saw it.

ALEX COOPER: How do you feel about your relationship?

JESSI DRAPER: She was so mean to me. It’s been interesting. I wish her the best. I had a lot of issues with her and I don’t think it was a friendship that was meant to last. But I do wish her happiness, and if I have to see her again, I can be cordial. It’s just not meant to be.

Wrapping Up: Final Thoughts and What’s Next

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, that makes sense. Has anyone heard from Ben since last season?

JESSI DRAPER: Stay tuned.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah. Okay, who is currently in the group chat? Has anyone left?

JESSI DRAPER: Oh gosh, no. So, okay, sorry Taylor, but we do have a group chat with Taylor and then we have one without her because of all this, but not talking badly, but how we were coordinating how to handle the film pause, of course. But no, everyone’s in it.

ALEX COOPER: What was your opinion on Harry Jowsy coming to meet up with Mom Talk while everyone was in LA?

JESSI DRAPER: Okay, well, first of all, me and Jordan were leaving as he came in. So I was like, and Jordan hates Harry Jowsy because of me cheating. So I was like, “Jordan, don’t say anything.” So I was kind of nervous, but so glad we were leaving. Harry doesn’t know this, by the way, and we talk a lot. So I’m sorry, Harry. Hey, Harry.

But no, I watched that scene back and I was like, this is the best TV I’ve ever seen. The fact that he’s like, “I’m going to cry right now,” and he is so overwhelmed.

ALEX COOPER: It was iconic. I loved it.

JESSI DRAPER: Amazing.

ALEX COOPER: How do you feel about how the Unwell event and Macy’s book event drama played out?

JESSI DRAPER: I felt so bad because I was so excited to do Unwell and we ended up, plot twist, doing it. So it worked out for the best. And Macy Makila came too, so it was great.

But no, I had no idea because we had talked about me hosting her book event and then Unwell came up and she had texted me being like, “Hey, I just need to know which one you’re doing. No big deal.” So I didn’t think it mattered. But then when I heard how sad she was, I was like, Macy Makila has been there for me through so much. I think you see me say that. And I was like, “Macy, I would never want you to think anything was more important than you.” And it was an immediate, like, I’ll do this.

ALEX COOPER: What terms are Jen and Whitney currently on?

JESSI DRAPER: I don’t think they’re talking at the moment, but I do think that when a season comes out, you all self reflect a little bit. And I think that’s happening. And I think they’ll probably be able to get back to a good place.

ALEX COOPER: What was your reaction when Jen sent her husband in place to speak to Whitney?

JESSI DRAPER: It’s just never a good move for the man to be the one to yell at another woman. Like, even if Whitney was in the wrong, which I don’t necessarily think she was, like him going at her. Just.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, okay. What do you think is the future of Dad Talk?

JESSI DRAPER: I think it’ll be done. I don’t think it can continue. I think the world has spoken and they’re done.

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Last question. Is there anything else that you want to set the record straight on? Clear the air on, whether it’s with Jordan, whether it’s with other people from the cast, rumors, whatever it be.

JESSI DRAPER: I mean, not specifically anything other than just, remember that we are real people with real lives. And you see this much of our life, it’s cut down, it’s edited. We film a scene for four hours, and you see four minutes. So just remember that there’s always more to the story and give people grace, because we’re all going through it right now. And just any woman that’s been in a situation like mine, you’re worthy and you’re enough, and you can do it.

The Orgy Investigation Continues

ALEX COOPER: Okay, I need you to now go find out about the orgies.

JESSI DRAPER: I know, literally, I’m going to hear about it once this drops.

ALEX COOPER: I need to call you after. You need to plug us back in and be like, “So, what’s the update?”

JESSI DRAPER: Or do I need to hire, like, a PI?

ALEX COOPER: Literally? Yeah, I’ll hire one for you.

JESSI DRAPER: I’ll let you know.

ALEX COOPER: I need to know.

JESSI DRAPER: He’s going to deny it. I already know that.

ALEX COOPER: But if it’s orgies, there’s many people there. Orgy parties.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah, sounds like it.

ALEX COOPER: I’ll get your new number. Yeah, we’ll figure it out.

JESSI DRAPER: Yeah, we’ll figure it out.

Closing Remarks

ALEX COOPER: Jessi, thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. Hearing your story again, your story was such a testament to — yes, we can’t see everything on reality TV. There are so many different story lines. It can’t all fit into certain episodes. And also, there are things that aren’t given information. We didn’t have the information about Jordan. We didn’t know about these escorts. We didn’t know about the parties.

To get that information now, I think, gives so much more clarity — even not saying that what you did was correct with your affair, but it gives such more backstory to what was going on in your home that none of us were privy to. So I really wish you the best. I wish the whole cast the best. Again, I said this at the beginning, but this is heavy — and some heavier than others and traumatizing.

But I think I’ve met you. I’ve met Taylor. I’ve met Whitney. I’ve met Connor. These are — I’ve had such great interactions with you guys, and I really hope you can figure this out, because I know people love the show, but also the show doesn’t matter if everyone’s mental health isn’t okay and safety. So I think we’re all just hoping for the best for all of you. And thank you so much for your time, and thinking of your kids and you during this time.

JESSI DRAPER: Thank you. Thank you for having me and letting me finally be free and speak my truth.

ALEX COOPER: Girl, we did it. High time we did.

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