Editor’s Notes: In this urgent episode of Triggernometry, biochemist Dr. Rhonda Patrick joins the hosts to expose the growing public health crisis caused by microplastics and endocrine-disrupting chemicals like BPA and phthalates. She details the startling connections between these pervasive toxins and significant declines in testosterone, fertility, and brain health, including links to the rising rates of autism and ADHD. Beyond outlining the hidden dangers in daily items like to-go coffee cups and thermal receipts, Dr. Patrick provides actionable advice on using reverse osmosis filters, air purifiers, and specific supplements to mitigate exposure. This deep dive serves as an essential guide for anyone looking to understand and protect their health in an increasingly plastic-saturated world. (Feb 19, 2026)
TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome and Introduction
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Rhonda, welcome to TRIGGERnometry.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I’m so excited to be here.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, it’s great to have you on. We can’t wait to have the conversation. We’re going to talk about microplastics, but particularly we wanted to start with testosterone. We hear a lot of stuff about the fact that testosterone in men is dropping with each generation. Is that true?
Declining Testosterone and Sperm Levels
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: There’s definitely a lot of evidence suggesting that testosterone levels are dropping, and sperm quality and sperm levels are dropping as well. You’ve probably heard that very famous statistic globally — over the last few decades, men are making 50% less sperm. And that’s obviously very intimately related to testosterone as well. It’s definitely a problem. And the question is, why is it a problem?
Many people are interested in this, and obviously a lot of men are interested as well. But there’s a lot of changes in our environment that have happened over these few decades. We’ve got a lot more chemicals that we’ve been exposed to. We’re eating food that we’re not as connected to anymore, so foods are a lot more processed and packaged.
There has been at least one study showing that if you take healthy young men and give them a large bolus — like 80 grams or something of sugar — it drops their testosterone levels by 25%. And this is pretty immediate. Now, that’s a lot of sugar, but it’s like a donut and a Coke or something. People eat that stuff all the time, day after day. That’s just one example. But I think the larger problem here does have to do with a lot of the chemicals that we’re ingesting on a daily basis without even being aware of it.
These chemicals are often associated with plastic — they’re what are called endocrine disrupting chemicals, or EDCs. We were actually having this conversation a minute ago when you guys were pouring your water into plastic glasses.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: We’re about to get it selling off.
FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.
Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals: BPA and BPS
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: We have a lot of chemicals in our environment that we’re ingesting and don’t know about. These chemicals are often associated with plastic — they’re plastic-associated chemicals, and they’re what are called endocrine disrupting chemicals, or EDCs. These are things like bisphenol A, or BPA, or bisphenol S, its related cousin, BPS.
They’re in a lot of plastics. They’re in plastic water bottles, in reusable water bottles, in aluminum cans that contain sparkling water or soda. They line canned foods — anything in an aluminum can is lined with a plastic lining that contains BPA. They’re also in to-go coffee mugs. Those coffee mugs you’re getting at Starbucks or your local coffee shop are also lined with plastic that contains BPA or BPS. And these chemicals leach into the beverage.
When heat is involved, it’s even worse. Studies have shown that if you add boiling water to a container with BPA, it increases the leaching by 55-fold into the water. So that to-go coffee or tea that everyone’s walking around drinking — you’re literally ingesting these plastic chemicals, and also pieces of plastic as well, which we can talk about later.
BPA and BPS are endocrine disrupting hormones. Essentially, they’re disrupting our fundamental sex hormones like testosterone and estrogen, and they do it in a variety of different ways. You’ve probably heard of xenoestrogens. BPA is known as a xenoestrogen — it’s an estrogen mimetic. The reason it’s referred to that way is because it binds to the estrogen receptor, and the estrogen receptor thinks it’s estrogen. So it confuses things, and your body may stop making estrogen as a result.
They also bind to androgen receptors, which bind to testosterone and other androgens, and they do the same thing. Essentially, these chemicals bind to the receptors and your body thinks, “Oh, I have enough testosterone around, I don’t need to make more.” When really, it wasn’t testosterone binding to that androgen receptor — it was the BPA.
The Impact on Testosterone Across Life Stages
This is why you can find studies showing effects everywhere from early development to adolescence to adulthood. BPA and BPS — to a lesser extent, only because BPS has replaced BPA and there are fewer studies on it — are essentially doing the same thing. In fact, BPS might even be worse because it stays in our bodies longer.
These chemicals are lowering testosterone, lowering sperm quality, sperm morphology — the shape of the sperm — and lowering the quantity of sperm that men are producing. There are studies in adolescents showing that healthy young adolescents with the highest levels of BPA — for every log increase in BPA, which is a significant amount — showed almost a 50% reduction in testosterone. That’s very significant.
Again, it is a log increase, not just a small amount, but you get the picture: there’s a dose-dependent effect here, which always strengthens the data. There are also studies with adult men showing that bisphenol A is associated with lower testosterone levels.
Now, at the end of the day, that’s correlation data. You’re saying higher levels of bisphenol A are associated with lower testosterone, but we don’t really know if that’s causing it. Maybe it’s all the packaged foods people are eating — the BPA leaches into those foods, and so you’re getting an association when it’s really the packaged foods themselves.
But there are animal studies that have now shown causation. You can give male rodents high levels of BPA, and yes, it decreases testosterone. It does the same thing with sperm quality and sperm quantity — they go down as well. So there’s a causation that’s established when you look at the totality of evidence. And then we have mechanisms.
BPA and BPS are xenoestrogens — they’re binding to the estrogen receptor and to the androgen receptor, which affects testosterone. They also affect the aromatase enzyme. So you’re getting all these combining factors showing that these plastic-associated chemicals are dropping testosterone. Looking at the totality of evidence, it’s pretty obvious that they are affecting our hormones.
Societal Effects of Declining Testosterone
KONSTANTIN KISIN: We’ll get into the plastics more as we go on, but it occurs to me that there’s an interesting question to ask here. As you might know, one of the things we’ve explored on the show is cultural and political changes that have been happening in society for decades now. And I guess the obvious question is: what would we expect to see in a society in which men’s testosterone was dropping in this way? What are some of the ways that might manifest itself?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: There are a lot of different health consequences of having lower testosterone. Obviously, one that people think of right out of the gate is lower libido — sex drive. That’s something that’s affected. Cardiovascular disease is another one, as well as bone health, brain health, and mental health. These are all connected. Energy levels too — lower energy. There are downstream consequences to having lower testosterone, everything from the brain to cardiovascular health to sex drive, which is also very fundamental.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: But also what I’m getting at is something else — is it likely to be something that affects the way you view the world, the way you perceive politics, or everything?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: That’s not really my area of expertise, but if I were to speculate — I think hormones very much affect the way we see the world. They affect the way we feel, they affect our mood, and those things all affect our view on things. If we’re feeling anxious — and low testosterone does cause anxiety — that’s going to affect our outlook on a variety of different topics. That’s pretty obvious.
I wouldn’t say I’m an expert in that area. You could talk to a psychologist. But it seems pretty obvious to me that it would affect people’s viewpoints, just knowing that testosterone is pretty fundamental to brain function.
Phthalates: Another Hidden Threat
But back to the chemicals — I talked about BPA and BPS, and those aren’t the only ones affecting testosterone. It’s just one of a barrage of chemicals that we’re ingesting on a daily basis. Another really important one is phthalates. Have you guys heard of phthalates?
FRANCIS FOSTER: No.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Phthalates are found in a lot of plastics. They’re added to PVC piping to soften it. So they’re obviously in the pipes that our tap water runs through, and this is global — not just in the United States. They’re in a variety of food packaging items as well, but they’re also in personal hygiene products. They’re in shampoos, shaving cream, lotion, makeup, and hair products.
Women are definitely consuming a lot of these through their hygiene products, but men as well. They’re disguised under the words “parfum” or “fragrance” — a proprietary blend of ingredients. Phthalates are included to extend the half-life of the fragrance, to make it smell good for a longer period of time.
Phthalates disrupt testosterone on multiple levels. One is in the testes — they directly disrupt testosterone production there. They also affect the HPG axis, the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, which regulates our hormone production.
Phthalates and Developmental Consequences
Phthalates are also associated with lower testosterone at every stage of life. It’s really important for development that testosterone levels are normal. Pregnant women with high phthalate levels — whether from their water or from personal hygiene products — are dramatically more likely to have sons with a variety of sexual development problems.
For one, these sons have undescended testicles — the testicles don’t drop down like they’re supposed to. This is a big problem. It causes fertility issues later in life, and it’s probably the number one factor that plays a role in testicular cancer in young adult males. Hypospadias is another issue — where the urethral opening on the penis is positioned further back than normal. And then the anogenital distance — the distance from the anus to the penis — is smaller. All of these things affect fertility and testosterone, and they’re connected to testicular cancer.
Even later in life, phthalates are associated with lower testosterone in adolescents. There are also very large studies — nutritional and health surveys done in the United States called the NHANES studies, involving hundreds of thousands of participants — showing that men with higher levels of phthalates have much lower levels of testosterone.
So again, we’re seeing this recurring trend: chemicals put into plastic and into our personal hygiene products are affecting hormone levels. There are other environmental factors affecting testosterone as well — glyphosate, for example, is known to as well, though I don’t know that literature as well. But the plastic chemicals are endocrine disruptors. They’re fundamentally affecting hormones — not just testosterone, but estrogen and androgens broadly. It’s pretty obvious to me that they are a culprit in declining testosterone levels.
The Public Health Crisis of Microplastics
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: It’s totally a public health crisis. Oh my God. It’s like time to wake up. The problem is we can’t see these chemicals. We don’t really smell them. They’re just insidious. They’re there. They’re in our water, they’re in our drinking water, they’re in our foods that we’re eating, they’re in our personal hygiene products. And every day we’re being exposed to them. It’s a public health crisis.
Yes, I get that there’s other important public health issues to focus on, like obesity. That’s a big crisis, let’s be real. But this is also a crisis and I think it’s just getting worse, and it is affecting our hormones. Although obesity does also affect our hormones as well. It is something that we need to pay attention to, and I think we just need more focus on it from a public health standpoint. We need our politicians to maybe help intervene here, like more regulations. Maybe we shouldn’t just be able to have all these plastic chemicals so readily put in our products, in children’s toys and children’s stuff that they’re putting in their mouths and chewing on.
FRANCIS FOSTER: Because we’ve done numerous interviews with demographers and they’re talking about there’s a population crisis in the West and across the developed world. And look, there are societal factors for that, et cetera. But you’re looking at declining testosterone — men are going to be more anxious, they’re going to be less fertile, they’re going to want sex less. This is a recipe for disaster when it comes to declining birth rates, isn’t it?
Microplastics and Human Reproduction
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: And it’s not just men. These chemicals are affecting female reproduction as well. In fact, there have been studies showing that BPA, bisphenol A, that plastic compound — it’s associated with women that are undergoing in vitro fertilization. If they have high BPA levels, it reduces their success rate by 50%. 50%. Egg quality is also reduced. So we’re talking about, on a very fundamental level, it is affecting human life. Our ability to procreate — both on the male and the female side.
And these chemicals, like I said, they’re everywhere. Heat really speeds up the process of them coming into our water, into our beverages, into our food. Because of oxidation — it’s like time passing, it takes a lot of time for oxidation, but when you heat it up, you’re oxidizing it really fast. And so you’re getting just orders of magnitude more of these chemicals and plastics into your food.
That’s why the to-go coffee mugs are such a big issue. In my mind, it’s like, why haven’t we solved this problem? All these cardboard plastic mugs are lined with a plastic lining to prevent the beverage from leaching and breaking down the cardboard. But you can use other things — you can use polylactic acid from sugar cane to do that. It’s more expensive, but this needs to be done, because adding a heated beverage to these plastic linings is the worst thing you can do in terms of plastics getting into your beverage.
BPA does have a pretty short half-life — it’s like a couple of hours, two to three hours. But the problem is we’re constantly exposed to it. It’s always in our body. There are ways that we can get rid of BPA. Some does come out in sweat. Mostly we’re getting rid of it through our urine. So if you exercise or you’re using the sauna, you can excrete a little bit more BPA through sweat. But that’s not the major route of excretion of this compound — it’s actually through urine.
Sulforaphane: A Natural Defense Against Plastic Chemicals
And so there is an argument to be made to increase your consumption of a certain compound called sulforaphane, which is found in cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, kale, cabbage — that whole family.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: All the sexy, sexy greens.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I know, all the ones that taste so good. It’s really high in broccoli sprouts, which is the young broccoli plant. In fact, there’s like 100 times more of the precursor of sulforaphane in it. Sulforaphane is actually formed once the plant is crushed or chopped. By the way, it’s actually a plant insecticide — the reason the plant makes this is because it’s trying to ward off insects. So when we consume it and we’re chewing it, that’s when the plant actually makes the sulforaphane.
Sulforaphane activates these enzymes that are involved in excreting BPA and other harmful compounds that we’re exposed to, like benzene from air pollution. In the case of benzene, it increased the excretion by 60% after just 24 hours. And benzene is a carcinogen — it’s found in air pollution and cigarette smoke. The same enzymes that get rid of benzene are getting rid of BPA, BPS, and phthalates. So there’s a case to be made to eat your broccoli sprouts or supplement with a good high-quality sulforaphane supplement. Obviously you want to try to avoid drinking out of plastic bottles, but there’s also a case to be made to supplement with sulforaphane as well.
Glass Bottles vs. Plastic Bottles: The Microplastics Debate
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Here’s the thing, though, on the plastic bottles — I don’t know if you saw this, but there was something that went viral the other day when they did tests on glass bottles and found they actually have more plastics in them because of the lids. Is that true?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Is that true?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I’m so glad you brought this up. Let’s talk about that.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Let’s talk about that.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: That wasn’t the only study, by the way. There have been other studies that have measured this. So now we’re talking about microplastics — we were talking about the chemicals associated with those plastics. But part of the problem with microplastics is they are a vector for these chemicals and they’re in your body. Microplastics range in size from like 5 millimeters, which is like the size of a grain of rice, to like 100 nanometers, which is like a thousand times smaller than a grain of sand. So they’re very wide-ranging. Size does matter, and that’s why I’m bringing this up. Size does matter.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: This is going to be a great clip. You go, “size matters.”
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: The bigger the plastics, the better. Actually, size does matter. So the study did look at microplastics that were shed into the beverage from plastic bottles or glass bottles. And as you said, shockingly, the glass bottles had more particles of microplastics than the plastic bottles. However, the size of the microplastics — because these microplastics were coming from the lid, as you mentioned, they were coming from the paint on the lid — they were larger in size.
Why is that important? Because the larger microplastics are less readily absorbed in our gut than the smaller ones are. So you’re much better off with a larger quantity of larger microplastics than a smaller quantity of the smaller ones. Because the smaller ones are very, very problematic. Those are the ones that are getting into our gut and getting absorbed into our bloodstream. Once they’re in our bloodstream, they’re accumulating in organs — and then we can talk about the damage they’re doing there.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: I sort of feel like we’ve got a sh*y deal either way. Like, why are we drinking all this stuff in the first place?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I mean, I think the companies that are making these glass bottles — whether it’s a beer bottle or my Mountain Valley spring water that I like because it’s in a glass bottle — they can actually take action and do something about the paint that’s getting into the water. Like, it’s easy to rinse off, blow air, get the stuff off — or just don’t use the paint. Why do we need the paint? I don’t need paint on the lid. Put it on the glass part, not on the lid. So I do think that action can be taken by the companies themselves. But even at home, if you open your glass bottle of water, you can rinse the lid off so it’s not continually shedding. But yeah, I’m still drinking glass bottled water versus plastic.
ADHD, Autism, and the Role of Microplastics
FRANCIS FOSTER: As you talk, I’m thinking more and more — when I used to teach, I saw year upon year more and more kids get diagnosed with ADHD, more and more kids get diagnosed with autism. And I was looking at these kids going, are we just over-diagnosing? Is there something literally in the water? Is there a connection between conditions like ADHD, autism, and other conditions as well, and these microplastics?
The Link Between BPA, Autism, and ADHD
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes, there is. And yes, it is something in the water. It’s called microplastics and the chemicals associated with them. Obviously there is increased awareness and people are more aware. And I do think it’s over-diagnosis. Kids are being diagnosed with ADHD, boys are being diagnosed with ADHD, and really they’re just boys. So that’s aside from that issue.
There are studies that have now linked, again, back to the bisphenol A — BPA and BPS — to autism and ADHD. There have been studies with pregnant women that have the highest levels of BPA in their urine. They’re six times more likely to have a child diagnosed with autism by the age of 11 than women with the lowest levels of BPA. I’m citing this one study because the statistic is shocking. Six times more likely. That’s a very shocking number.
But I want to emphasize that there’s not just one study showing this correlation. This is just the big statistic number correlation. There are multiple studies showing this correlation between higher levels of BPA and increased autism risk. There’s also animal evidence. If you give pregnant female mice BPA, they are also more likely to have pups that exhibit, as much as you can correlate, autistic-like behavior. And again, this comes down to the disruption of hormones, particularly during a very important time during development — brain development.
How BPA Disrupts Brain Development
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I mentioned the aromatase enzyme. A lot of men are probably thinking, “Oh, aromatase — that’s what causes my testosterone to be converted into estrogen.” You do want some amount of estrogen. Biology is the way it is for a reason. You don’t want to be disrupting this delicate balance between hormones. You’re supposed to have high levels of estrogen at certain points and periods of development.
And it’s actually counterintuitive, because BPA is inhibiting that aromatase enzyme. That aromatase enzyme is important for increasing estrogen, particularly during very specific moments of brain development. And estrogen is very important for actually masculinizing the male brain. It’s counterintuitive, but it’s pretty well known that estrogen plays a role in masculinizing the male brain.
So when you’re not getting those estrogen surges during brain development, the connectivity of the brain, the wiring of the brain, the structure of the brain isn’t quite right. That’s thought to partly play a role in the increased autism risk in women who have high exposures to BPA. And it’s been replicated in animal studies, which is reassuring when you’re looking at the totality of evidence — the epidemiological, observational data showing correlation, a known mechanism, and the same results in mice.
Then when you look at the genetic data, boys with dysfunctional aromatase enzymes are much more likely to be diagnosed with autism, especially if they also have an environmental insult. There’s this gene-environment interaction where you’re already vulnerable, and then you add in that insult — the plastic chemical — and whatever aromatase function they had, as low as it was, becomes even worse. That double-whammy effect is also known to play a role in autism.
Sulforaphane and Autism: A Surprising Connection
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: There’s also some interesting data on children with autism themselves. They have some sort of dysfunctional mechanism in excreting BPA. Children with autism oftentimes have around 15 times higher levels of BPA than non-autistic children, and it has to do with that excretion pathway I was talking about.
And this is really interesting — it’s all connected. That sulforaphane supplement I was telling you about, extracted from broccoli sprouts, the richest source of that compound, has now been used in two different clinical studies — placebo-controlled trials — one with children with autism spectrum disorder and one with adolescents with autism spectrum disorder. They were given this sulforaphane compound or a placebo. The children that got the sulforaphane compound showed improvement across the whole battery of tests used to assess autism symptoms. And it was shown to improve outcomes in both studies.
And again, sulforaphane helps excrete BPA. It’s kind of interesting that autistic children have such high levels of BPA, and BPA is disrupting hormones and causing oxidative stress. I thought that was a very interesting connection between all these pieces of the puzzle — the plastic chemicals, the BPA, the hormone disruption, and the autism.
By the way, ADHD is another condition associated with BPA levels as well. So it’s all linked. There are a lot of common denominators between ADHD and autism spectrum disorder — so many commonalities between the two. That’s why it’s a spectrum.
Over-Diagnosis and the Age Factor
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I truly believe there is over-diagnosis, particularly with ADHD. You can’t ignore it. There were studies I read a few years ago where boys born in July and August — the youngest in the class — are three to four times more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. There’s nothing about being born in July or August that causes ADHD. You’re just the younger boy. You’re moving around more. The teachers are comparing you to the girls or to the older kids who are a little more school-ready.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: That’s crazy to me, because I have a three-year-old and I take him to football — soccer, you’d call it — every weekend. And whenever there’s an older child there who’s been brought by a sibling or something, the level of distractibility in these two groups of humans is so vastly different.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yeah.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: And boys and girls are so vastly different. This has become the controversial thing to say, but they are.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Oh yeah.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: To compare them on things like distractibility, ability to concentrate, and then say one has a disorder — there’s not to say ADHD doesn’t exist. It just seems like if you start telling these myths about how we’re all the same and ignoring certain realities, you’re going to end up in a bad place.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Right. Obviously there is such a thing as ADHD. But the fact of the matter is, kids are not meant to sit still for so long, especially when they’re younger. And it does make it easier on the teacher to have kids that just sit still and pay attention. To some degree — and I don’t want to blame teachers because they’re doing amazing jobs — maybe they’re not even aware of the fact that they’re comparing them. There’s all sorts of things going on behind the picture. But back to the environmental chemicals.
Genetics, Environment, and What You Can Control
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Back to the environmental chemicals and to your question — they are definitely playing a role. We have the data to back that up. We have the mechanism, we have animal evidence, just all the things pointing to it. And I don’t think it’s the only thing playing a role in autism and ADHD.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: What else is playing a role?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Other environmental factors.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Because it’s genetics, right? Genetics is a massive factor.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: There’s definitely genetics, and I think genetics is like the template — it sets you up for the environmental insults that we’re all exposed to now, and makes those individuals more vulnerable. That’s what we’ve seen with the aromatase enzyme data — boys that have defects in this enzyme are much more vulnerable to environmental insults.
So the genetics you can’t ignore, but it’s really an interaction between the genetics and the environment. There’s some degree to which you don’t have control over your genes. Obviously there’s futurism stuff where you’re going to be looking at your genes and doing all that, but that’s not where we’re at. There’s only so much control you have over your genes. But you do have control over what you put in your body and what you’re exposed to — to some degree.
Like, you don’t even realize that your to-go coffee cup is like a BPA factory. Every time you — I can’t even think about how many hot teas and hot coffees. And by the way, we have to talk about tea.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: That is sacrilegious when a Brit’s on the show. We’re going to talk about tea? You’re going to ruin tea.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I’m going to ruin tea. But only tea bags — tea in tea bags.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Oh, my wife is so onto this. Go on.
The Problem with Tea Bags
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes, because there have been studies now showing that the tea bags themselves — particularly the ones that are pyramid-shaped, like the bougie teas — are releasing billions of microplastics into your cup of tea. And remember, the microplastics have these chemicals associated with them. Even the ones made of cellulose are releasing microplastics.
So you have to use loose leaf tea. Or you can look for tea brands that are marketing themselves as plastic-free or microplastic-free. I don’t trust it. I go for loose leaf. And if I can’t get loose leaf at a restaurant, I ask them to give me fresh mint and lemon, and I just use that as my tea.
What You Can Do: Practical Steps to Reduce Exposure
FRANCIS FOSTER: So the question is this — from a political point of view, the evidence that you’ve outlined seems rock solid. Autism is at the forefront. We’ve seen RFK Jr. talk about it, we’ve seen the conversation that has been had around Tylenol, and you go, this seems far more rock solid in terms of its evidence than Tylenol does. So why aren’t we talking about this?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I don’t know. We need to be talking about this. We really do. There is evidence of acetaminophen — and I’ve been looking at this, by the way. I’ve been interested in this evidence for the last 10 years. You can go back and search X and I’ve been tweeting about it. At least eight years ago I was tweeting about acetaminophen linked to ADHD and autism. So I was interested in it before it became a political issue, just because I’ve published on autism. I’ve been very interested in autism for many years.
But with the Tylenol link — and there is a link there, by the way — it certainly seems to be more predominant in males than females, which I think confuses the data a little bit, because then you’ll see that female fetuses that have been exposed to Tylenol in utero don’t seem to be as vulnerable. But again, they’re not as vulnerable in general to any of the environmental insults.
FRANCIS FOSTER: And also, it’s much more difficult to pick up autism in girls. Girls are much better at masking. That’s another thing.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: True, true. That’s a very good point. But yeah, when it comes to Tylenol, maternal fever is something that is also very well known to play a role in autism. Women that have a fever are much more likely to have a child with autism spectrum disorder. And so if you think about people that are taking Tylenol, they’re also trying to reduce their fever.
In fact, there’s some interesting data out there that women that have a fever and take Tylenol actually have a lower risk of having a child with autism, versus the woman that’s taking Tylenol every day because she has a headache or morning sickness. It’s the chronic use of it that I think is the more dangerous factor. The fever is dangerous, so taking Tylenol for a fever once or twice — there’s actually evidence showing that’s beneficial. But it’s the chronic use of Tylenol that’s the concern.
When it comes to the plastic chemicals, I feel like the evidence is so strong. We have the animal evidence, we have the genetic evidence, we have the epidemiological evidence. I don’t know why it’s not being talked about more. I’m genuinely wanting this to be a discussion. So I’m glad that we’re talking about it, because I think it needs to be. The thing is, it’s also hard to get rid of. It’s much easier to tell a woman, “Hey, don’t take Tylenol every day while you’re pregnant.” BPA is in everything. It’s so much more pervasive and ubiquitous in our culture, in everything that we’re eating and putting in our bodies, in our drinking water — that it’s harder to solve that problem.
FRANCIS FOSTER: Do you think — and this is maybe the conspiratorial part of me — is it also governments going, “I don’t want to open this can of worms”? Because once we open the can of worms, then big business and donors are going to get upset, profits are going to go down, and I’m going to be the bad guy?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I’ve thought about that. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I’ve thought about why isn’t this being discussed? And the only solution I’ve come up with is because it is in everything. So how do you fix that?
KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s hard to fix.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: It’s hard to fix.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: So that being the case — and we haven’t seen the politicians act quickly or effectively lately — in terms of what we have left as individuals, what are some of the key steps that we should all be taking, in your opinion, to reduce our exposure to this stuff?
Key Steps to Reduce Your Plastic Exposure
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes, I think there are some heavy hitters here that can make a big difference and give you big bang for your buck. And this is in terms of both microplastic exposure and the chemicals they carry with them.
One of the first and foremost things that people should do is get a water filter. The best one you can get is a reverse osmosis water filter. You can get a countertop one that filters out 99% of microplastics, and it’s filtering out bisphenol A, bisphenol S, the phthalates, the forever chemicals, PFAS — all those chemicals that are endocrine disruptors, that are disrupting hormones, that are associated with neurodevelopmental disorders like autism spectrum disorder and ADHD. A countertop one is an easy solution for people. You can get a whole-house one as well.
The caveat is that reverse osmosis does filter out everything, including trace elements and minerals that we actually want in our water. So you can add those back with a mineral supplement, or you can get mineral drops to add back to your water — things like manganese, selenium — that you want in your water. That is also important to consider. Number one thing you could do, easiest solution right there. You’re going to be doing so much by doing that.
The second thing I would say is avoid heating any kind of plastic. Whether it’s your Tupperware, spatulas — get rid of anything plastic that’s going to touch heat. And I want to get to the coffee cups, because that’s one you don’t think about. It doesn’t look like plastic, which makes it very tricky, because they’re lined with plastic.
I really want companies like Starbucks to start lining their cups with polylactic acid. You can do it — I know Blue Bottle Coffee does it, and it’s the only one I know of. You can use sugarcane lining. But until then, bring your own mug, or stop drinking to-go coffee. Because you’re talking about 55 times more BPA going into your beverage than if you were drinking just water from a plastic bottle. 55 times.
The other thing is to shift away from drinking out of plastic water bottles as much as you can, and certainly don’t let them sit out in the sun or in your car, because that accelerates the breakdown of the plastic and the chemicals leach into your drink.
FRANCIS FOSTER: But you say that, Rhonda, and then I think — look at a supply chain. These bottles are not always going to be perfectly chilled or at room temperature. They’re going to be thrown in a corner somewhere, they’re going to get crushed, they’re going to get heated up, they’re going to become warm, then cool, then warm again.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes. When they’re on the truck in summer, being transported to the warehouse — yeah. The reality is, don’t drink out of the bottle. Just get rid of the plastic bottles. Get rid of them.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: One thing we haven’t talked about is tap water.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Because the filter covers that, right? And what about hormones? Is there any truth to this idea that since the invention of the pill, there are now more female hormones in the water supply? Have I just made that up?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I think there are some places where that may be a factor. But I think the bigger problem is the BPA that’s disrupting our hormones. If you want to focus — if you want to be angry at something — that’s what you should be angry about, because that’s actually what’s disrupting our hormones, and it’s really what’s ubiquitous.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: So — water filter, avoid coffee cups, avoid heating plastic, avoid plastic bottles.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yeah, that’s the major thing for the BPA. Now, microplastics — we’re breathing them in as well.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Anything else for the BPA, for everything to do with plastics and microplastics?
The Role of Fiber and Air Filtration
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes. If we’re talking about plastics on the whole, including microplastics — the major source is ingestion, and I mentioned that size matters. Well, it turns out that dietary fiber can also help you excrete microplastics. Prebiotics and fermentable fiber, soluble fiber — it creates a viscous gel in your gut that encapsulates plastic particles and moves them out through your feces. So fiber is actually good for that reason.
Everything I mentioned — reverse osmosis water filter, not drinking out of plastic bottles, not heating them — all that also applies to microplastics because you’re ingesting them. You’re also ingesting microplastics in your food. The oceans are polluted with them, so you want to avoid eating fish that have their intact gut and intestines — shellfish, shrimp, things like that — because the microplastics accumulate in the intestines.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: I’m regretting doing this episode now.
FRANCIS FOSTER: I love prawns.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Sorry. Yes — prawns, exactly.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Shrimp, as you call them.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: But the other major source of microplastics is actually from the air we breathe. We are breathing in microplastics constantly, because we live in a plastic world. Tires, for example — if you’re in an urban area, tires are made of rubber but also a lot of plastic polymers. The friction of the tire against the road brings particles into the air. Our clothes — microplastics are all through our clothing. When we wash them, they get into the ocean, and when they go through the dryer, they come out into our environment. So we’re breathing these in. Our shoes. Just everywhere. It’s in the air.
When we breathe in microplastics, they get into our lungs, which plays a role in respiratory disease. But this is also very disturbing — have you heard about the study done in São Paulo, Brazil, where they looked at microplastics in a variety of different organs? They found that microplastics accumulated in the brain 10 to 20 times more than in other organs.
They’re essentially everywhere — in 100% of semen samples that have been measured, in testicles, in the placenta. But 10 to 20 times more in the brain, which is astounding, considering we have something called the blood-brain barrier that’s supposed to prevent things like microplastics from getting in.
Part of that is because the nanoplastics — the smallest ones — are getting through. But the other part is that when we breathe in microplastics, we have olfactory neurons in our nose, and those neurons have fibers that extend into our brain. So essentially, you breathe in the microplastics and they can get into the brain through the olfactory fibers and then get transported to other parts of the brain. A lot of scientists are actually studying this method to deliver drugs past the blood-brain barrier, because it’s a way to bypass it.
There are now studies showing that people with Alzheimer’s disease, postmortem, have 10 times more microplastics in their brain than people without Alzheimer’s. So this is playing a role in Alzheimer’s disease as well.
So — you want an air filter. Any kind of HEPA filter. It doesn’t have to be a fancy, medical-grade one. They really do work. I have a Honeywell HEPA filter in all the rooms in my home, including my bedroom. I also have an IQ Air monitor that measures particulate matter, and you can see the data clearly. If you turn off the filter, the particulate matter goes up. If I’m traveling and I unplug everything, you look at the monitor and it goes up. So an air filter is another simple solution for reducing microplastic exposure.
FRANCIS FOSTER: Rhonda, there’s been one thing I read about that was very interesting — and it’s positively racist — which is black plastic, which is the worst type of plastic.
The Dangers of Black Plastic and Forever Chemicals
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: It is black plastic. So there’s another type of chemical called brominated chemicals. Brominated chemicals are a type of chemical that’s flame retardant. Flame retardants are often put in electronics because we don’t want electronics starting fires, right?
And so black plastic is often made from recycled electronics, hence the black color. These recycled electronics have the brominated chemicals in them. There was a very famous study published in 2018, I think it was the University of Plymouth or something, that showed they looked at a variety of black plastic articles — everything from black spatulas to spoons to baby toys — and found that they had 30 to 40 times higher levels of these brominated chemicals, which, by the way, are known carcinogens, than is considered safe.
And so black plastic is something you definitely want to avoid. Have you ever ordered a rotisserie chicken and it’s still hot, and the bottom of the container is black? Remember I told you heat accelerates the leaching of everything into your food — whether it’s a brominated chemical, a BPA, or a microplastic. It’s all coming in and it’s accelerating the process in real time. It’s almost like getting something that would have leached over the course of 10 years, but it’s happening in just minutes, because that’s what heat does. It accelerates that oxidation process.
So you want to avoid black plastic as well — the black straws, everything black. It’s not good, especially when heated. Get rid of all the black spatulas, because that’s the worst culprit — heat plus plastic. That’s also something associated with cancer, the brominated chemicals as well.
FRANCIS FOSTER: But it’s also the pans as well. Let’s talk about pans. Because when I was a kid, if a pan had a few scratches on it, who cares?
PFAS: The Forever Chemicals in Your Food and Clothing
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Teflon. Yeah. So Teflon actually has forever chemicals in it. They’re called PFAS. They’re called “forever chemicals” because they last in our environment for years. BPA’s half-life is about two to three hours — it’s excreted through your urine. Forever chemicals, the PFAS, are in your body for like four to five years. A really long time.
These chemicals are added to things to make them water repellent, non-stick, oil resistant, stain resistant — all those things. And so you have these pans that are non-stick and you’re heating them. I probably have forever chemicals in me from when I was a kid. I remember my mom bought all those non-stick pans and we were cooking with them. That’s the worst thing you can do — heat that non-stick pan — because you’re getting those PFAS forever chemicals into you. Those are also disrupting hormones and are also associated with cancer.
Also in our clothing, right? Anything that’s water repellent — that stuff is all forever chemicals that you’re absorbing through your skin. But the worst is eating it. The worst is eating it.
The forever chemicals are unfortunately lipophilic — they’re attracted to fat — and they’re found in high fat foods. It’s been shown that our water sources are contaminated with phthalates and forever chemicals. You have this sludge, this fertilizer that’s used in farming, and even organic farms are now contaminated with forever chemicals and phthalates. The cows are eating it. And the way cows get rid of forever chemicals — unlike us — is through their milk and dairy. I’ve looked at studies where they’ve gone around testing milk — organic, grass-fed, the stuff you think is the best — and found tons of forever chemicals in it, because the cows are contaminated and excreting it through their milk.
So dairy milk, high fat butter, cheese — all of this has phthalates and forever chemicals because they’re lipophilic and attracted to fat. Now even our fatty foods are sources for those chemicals.
This is probably why no one wants to address the issue, because it’s everywhere. You have to do what you can. I call it “imperfect avoidance.” You have to eat, you have to live, but do what you can to reduce your exposure — whether it’s the reverse osmosis filter, the air filter, not cooking with Teflon pans, not heating plastic, not drinking from to-go cups. Do all those things, because you’re going to be exposed to it regardless. If you order takeout, or go to a bakery and the tissue paper is lined with forever chemicals to prevent grease —
KONSTANTIN KISIN: They give you a black plastic bowl.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: The worst. I can’t tell you — during my 20s, I loved pho, and I’d get takeout pho in a plastic container. I mean, I know, it’s just —
FRANCIS FOSTER: And receipts.
The Hidden Danger of Receipts
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Oh, and receipts. Yes. Receipts are terrible. I have a funny story.
FRANCIS FOSTER: Yeah.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Oh, yes.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Like paper.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yes, yes, yes.
FRANCIS FOSTER: What’s wrong with receipts?
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Oh my gosh. You haven’t heard about this?
KONSTANTIN KISIN: No.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: So receipts — the printing on them is done with thermal paper. The way you get the printing on it, it’s not ink — it’s coated with BPA. Bisphenol A, the stuff we’ve been talking about. The worst insult is ingesting it. But unfortunately, if you have any kind of cream on your fingers, or the hand sanitizer everyone has been using since COVID, that causes the BPA from the receipts to go into your circulation a hundredfold. A hundredfold.
So you don’t want to touch receipts. And if you’re someone working at a cash register or anything like that, you have to use nitrile gloves. Latex gloves won’t do it — latex doesn’t filter out the BPA. It has to be nitrile.
It’s funny — I was in the San Diego airport and this guy was handing out receipts to everyone. Finally he came to me, and I came up with my Yeti glass and said, “Hey, can you put my latte in my Yeti?” because I didn’t want the to-go cup. And I said, “Hey, by the way, you shouldn’t be handling those receipts — they’re coated with BPA. Do you know what BPA is?” And he goes, “Oh yeah, something like endocrine —” I said, “Yes, it disrupts your hormones, your testosterone.”
Funny story — I was at the airport going on Chris Williamson’s podcast and talked about some of this stuff. Then about a month later I was back at the same coffee place, and he was there — and everyone working there was wearing nitrile gloves.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Nice.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I know, it was awesome. But yeah, receipts are terrible because they have the BPA, and I freak out if my son somehow gets hold of a receipt, because it’s disrupting hormones.
The Complexity of Avoiding Toxins in Modern Life
KONSTANTIN KISIN: You know what this conversation reminds me of? Have you seen that series The Good Place? Long story, very short — it’s about people who end up either going to hell or to heaven, depending on the total sum of their actions throughout the course of their life. Did they do good things or bad things? And what they find is that as society gets technologically more sophisticated, everyone goes to hell. Because every decision now is so complicated and has so many trade-offs. If you eat a tomato, some poor guy somewhere had to grow it in terrible circumstances. And it sort of feels like this with everything we’re consuming now — you’re having to make choices between two terrible options. Either you drink out of a plastic bottle, which is really bad for you, or a glass bottle, which has its own issues. It’s just so complex now. So I guess having given us some big hitters is where people should start, really, isn’t it?
Practical Steps to Reduce Your Exposure
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I think the big hitters are really — like I said — the water filter. If you can get water from your faucet with a reverse osmosis filter on it, that’s the best thing you can do. Travel around with your own to-go cup — a Yeti, a Hydro Flask, whatever your favourite brand is — and drink out of that. That’s one of the big things.
And then just avoid heating plastic. Those two things will make such a big difference in terms of your exposure, because a lot of it is coming from our water and from heating the plastic stuff we’re consuming — whether it’s the to-go coffee cups or to-go food items.
I guess there’s also an argument to be made for cooking at home. It really is, because it’s all in the restaurant industry — they’re using all these containers, and who knows if they’re using Teflon non-stick? Probably. It’s much easier to cook scrambled eggs on a Teflon pan than on cast iron. So you just never know what you’re getting when you’re eating out.
But I think at the end of the day, there are other things that are very important to focus on with respect to health, but this is a topic that needs to be discussed because it is affecting hormone levels, fertility, and neurodevelopment. And I think that is so important. We have all these insults and we have to try to do something — as much as we can — to help decrease some of that insult. That’s really affecting, like you said, our ability to procreate. I mean, that’s crazy.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: It’s kind of important.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: A 50% reduction in sperm production over the last few decades. I mean, that’s a lot.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, thank you for ruining everything that we used to love.
FRANCIS FOSTER: Including tea.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Including tea. I mean, that really was —
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: Yeah, gum base is made of plastic polymers. It wasn’t before World War II, but after World War II, gum base became plastic polymers. So you have to look for microplastic-free gums.
FRANCIS FOSTER: Oh, that’s another thing crossed off the list.
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I know. And of course, the plastic-free gum tastes terrible — it’s made of plant sap and stuff, so the texture is awful.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Well, before we head on over to our Substack where we ask you questions from our audience, thank you so much for being here. The last question we always end on is — what’s the one thing we’re not talking about, other than plastics, that we should be?
The Importance of Omega-3 Fatty Acids
DR. RHONDA PATRICK: I think a really important thing that we’re not talking about that we should be is omega-3, the omega-3 fatty acids found in fish and seafood. They are hugely important for brain health and for overall health.
In fact, there are studies showing that if you can supplement with about 1.5 to 2 grams a day, people that have that high level of omega-3 that you can achieve with that 1.5 to 2 grams a day have a five-year increased life expectancy and a 90% reduced chance of having sudden cardiac death.
I mean, it’s the easiest thing that you can do is take a pill. And it really has a huge effect on depression, mental health, neurodevelopment — all these things are affected by omega-3. Very important.
And again, why do I think we should be talking about it? Because it’s a simple solution. People like to take pills, and it’s the one pill that really is having a big impact on not only your overall health and life expectancy, but your mental health as well. So I think that’s something people should be talking about, and it’s one of my favorite things to talk about.
KONSTANTIN KISIN: Awesome. All right, head on over to Substack where we ask for your questions.
Audience Questions
FRANCIS FOSTER: Why is it that we focus so much on the adverse effects of smoking, but we don’t talk about sugar, excess carbohydrates, alcohol?
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