Mel Robbins Podcast: Jay Shetty on Finding Purpose (Transcript)

You have people in your life who love you and they want you to experience this conversation because they are certain that what you’re about to hear will change your life. It’ll open you up to bigger possibilities.

And I want you to really listen today and take in everything that you’re about to learn. Because if you do, time will slow down, your heart will soften, your guard will drop, your mind will expand, and you will know with every cell of your being that what you’re hearing today is meant just for you. Because it is.

Jay Shetty is a person who is so hard to define because the impact that he has on people’s lives transcends a label and it is truly global. I consider Jay to be one of my closest friends, especially in this business, to the world. He’s known as the host of one of the most successful and award-winning podcasts on the planet. I’m talking about On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

He is also the number one New York Times bestselling author of two books, Think Like a Monk and Eight Rules of Love, which have been translated into over 47 languages. Jay is also the Chief Purpose Officer for Calm, the wildly, wildly popular meditation app. He is a former monk who has reinvented himself over and over again and his work and his life are going to help you find greater purpose and meaning in yours.

Please help me welcome the remarkable Jay Shetty to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Oh my gosh. Jay Shetty in the house in Boston. This is just—I have been waiting to welcome you in here in person. Jay, my friend. I’m so excited you’re here.

JAY SHETTY: Mel, you’re the best and seeing your entire team and your beautiful studio space—I mean, it’s incredible when you get to see your friend’s place of genius. And I feel so lucky to be able to walk into it today. And it truly is infused with all your energy. So it’s so beautiful to be here.

I’m so grateful to you to be on your incredible podcast, the way you’ve been serving and showing up for people and truly putting your heart there. And I want people to know, not just in the last 24 months, for decades of just showing up for people privately, personally, publicly. It’s incredible to watch and I’m grateful to be your friend. So thank you.

MEL ROBBINS: Oh, Jay, you’re going to make me cry.

JAY SHETTY: Thank you.

MEL ROBBINS: So, okay, I got to pull myself together. I would love to start by having you speak directly to the person who is with us right now. How might they feel different if they take everything to heart that you’re about to share with us today? Wisdom that you’ve learned, lessons that you want to share, mistakes that you’ve made, what could change about their life?

What You’ll Gain From This Conversation

JAY SHETTY: I believe if someone really listens today and then reflects and then applies what we share, I believe their mind will become their best friend, not their worst enemy. I believe that time will feel like it’s full of possibilities, not just full of pressure, which is what we so often feel with time.

And I really believe that their life will feel clear and less foggy and less undecided, and they’ll actually know their next move, their next step. Maybe not the whole picture, maybe not this big idea of the future that we all seem to overwhelm ourselves with, but they’ll know their next step, their next move, and they’ll feel confident and secure that it’s the right step. So I’d say that’s what they’ll get from listening today and reflecting and applying.

MEL ROBBINS: I couldn’t help but notice that you said listen and reflect, and then at the end you said reflecting. Why is that so important? To not just listen and then do, but to actually take that moment and reflect?

The Five Steps From Listening to Real Change

JAY SHETTY: Well, here’s the interesting thing, Mel. I think what we don’t realize is that there’s actually five steps from listening to change.

MEL ROBBINS: What?

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, there’s five in between, but they’re very simple. And if we actually follow them, we’re guaranteed success. So the first is learn—the fact that people are listening to us today. The fact that people follow you. They read your books and they may listen to mine. They get the opportunity to learn.

But what’s the difference? We know lots of people that learn, but never get to change their life. So what’s going wrong? What’s the missing part?

After learning, we have to experiment. You’ve got to try this out. You may try it out tomorrow and it may not work. You may try it out on Wednesday, and it will work perfectly. You may try it out in a week, and then there’ll be a little dip. So experiment with it. Don’t feel like it’s going to be perfect tomorrow. Play with it, have fun with it.

And then the third step is perform. Once you’ve experimented, you get into a groove. You start to feel it working. You start to notice in your body, your mindset feels different when you wake up in the morning. Now you don’t have to do all the conscious stuff anymore. It’s kind of unconscious.

And then finally, there’ll always be struggle just before you’re about to unlock this new level of greatness. And then finally there’s thrive.

So to me, that reflection process is those three steps in between of experimenting, performing, and struggling. It’s the ability to try something out, then reflect back and go, “Wait, how could I have done that 1% different? How could I have done that 2% different? What do I need to shift?” And as soon as you start doing that, you start enjoying reflection. So reflection is not just in the mind. It’s something you’re practicing. It’s something you’re experimenting with.

MEL ROBBINS: I’ve never heard anybody explain it that way.

JAY SHETTY: I love that.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, it makes so much sense, because you’re right. I think you can hear an idea and you can try it once, and then if it doesn’t feel the way you want it to feel, most people stop.

JAY SHETTY: Yes.

MEL ROBBINS: And I’ve never thought about the fact that if you don’t actually know that trying something and then reflecting on what worked, what didn’t work, tweaking it, experimenting, as you said, you’re always going to stop.

JAY SHETTY: Absolutely. Absolutely. And by the way, isn’t it just the case, Mel, that even something that you’ve done for years, you still need to keep experimenting with it? So just because something worked last year doesn’t mean it’s going to work this year. You’ve got to keep that process going, and that’s what makes it fun and alive, and it doesn’t become routine and monotonous. And so I love reflection, being in action.

When You Feel Lost or Stuck

MEL ROBBINS: You know, Jay, so many people look to you because you have written just incredible blockbuster books. You have millions and millions of followers. Your podcast is the podcast—I listen to your podcast, is the podcast that inspired me to get into the podcasting space.

JAY SHETTY: No, you’re going to make me cry.

MEL ROBBINS: And so—no, I’m serious. And so I think there are times in your life, and you’ve certainly felt this way, where you’re really lost and unhappy and you feel stuck. And I know you’ve been there.

And so I would love to just before we kind of dig into specifics and unpack some of the lessons from your life, what would you say to somebody who really does feel kind of lost right now or stuck or doesn’t know what their next move is? And how do you want the person who feels that way to think about that moment where you feel like you don’t know what to do next?

JAY SHETTY: I love what you asked there because you said, “How would you like someone to think about that moment?” What I’d like people to remember is that you’re not stuck. You’re actually grieving a past version of yourself.

So there’s a part of you that’s died that actually you left behind a long time ago, but there’s a part of you that still misses it. You still want things to be the same. You still want things to be that way, and that keeps pulling you back, and that’s actually blocking you from making the next move. It’s stopping you. Because life used to be this way or life used to feel this way.

And so we’re stuck not because we don’t know what to do next. We’re stuck because there’s a part of us that wants to hold on to what we have here. There’s a beautiful Zen teaching that says, “What’s holding you back is what you’re holding onto.”

And I think if people think about that for a second, what are you holding onto that’s holding you back? What are you clinging onto that’s keeping you stuck? There’s an identity, an idea, a mindset, a behavior, an attitude that is keeping you held back. And once you let go of that, once you open and release your hands, all of a sudden you feel free.

So what identity, what habit, what mindset, what expectation are you letting yourself be held back by that if you were to let go of, you could easily move forward.

What Are You Holding Onto?

MEL ROBBINS: Can you give an example? You know what I’m saying? Because I think I understand what you’re saying. I’m trying to think about a scenario where, let’s say, somebody is at a moment in their life where there’s a change, you have gone through a breakup, or maybe you’ve raised your kids and they’ve launched, and now you’re trying to figure out your next chapter. Maybe you just lost your job and now you’re like, “Oh, my God, what do I do?” What are the kinds of things that people hold onto that you may not realize this is what you’re actually holding onto?

JAY SHETTY: Yes. So all three examples you gave apply. If you’ve raised your kids and they’ve left the house, there’s a part of you that misses what the home felt like with their energy. And now you spend all your day thinking about all the memories in the corners. You look in this corner and you remember your child growing up. You look in this corner and you remember Christmas dinner. You look at this place.

So you’re constantly surrounding yourself with an identity that no longer exists. So you don’t have the time or the energy or the presence to be able to even think about what comes next because there’s a part of you that still feels affected.

If you go through a relationship breakup, you keep looking at pictures of when you went on vacation. You keep looking at the pictures of when you had your first date. You keep looking at the memories of—maybe it’s a piece of clothing, maybe it’s an item at home, whatever you’re surrounded by, so you’re still living as if you’re still dating that person in your mind.

And so that’s all holding onto something that is an identity that’s already moved on in life. Your kids have already moved on. They’re at college or they’re getting engaged. Your ex has already moved on. They’re in a new relationship or they’re alone.

So reality has moved on, but you’ve held on to the piece of clothing, the memory, the photo, the whatever it may be. And that’s what’s keeping you stuck. So my question to everyone is, what is that thing for you? And how do you learn to release it? That’s the focus.

I think we think we’re stuck because we don’t know what to do next. No, we’re stuck because we’re still holding on to what’s behind us. And as soon as you release it, you propel yourself forward.

Have you ever felt that before? And you’re holding onto something really tight. If you let go of it, all of a sudden you feel momentum. Momentum doesn’t come from knowing where you’re going. It comes from knowing that I don’t want to be here anymore.

The Identity Trap: Why You’re Afraid to Put Yourself Out There

MEL ROBBINS: That is so important because so many people stay where they are because they don’t know where they want to go next. And I always say, well, actually, if you can be honest with yourself and say, “I just don’t like how my life feels anymore,” you’re already moving in a new direction because you’re moving away from what’s not working.

I have one more example to give you, because what you just said was brilliant. You have this ability, Jay, to just take wisdom, philosophy, psychology, and make it so immensely obvious that I both feel inspired and sort of like an idiot that I didn’t see it, you know, myself, and I’m George.

But no, I have one more example to give you about this feeling of being stuck. Because there are so many people that have artistry inside themselves, whether it’s wanting to start a YouTube channel, or it’s wanting to become a singer, or it’s wanting to express themselves on social media, or it’s wanting to learn how to market themselves better on social media.

And yet there is so much resistance to putting yourself out there. And so in this paradigm where we’re talking about holding onto something and grieving who you used to be, if somebody is actively fighting against their deep internal desire to start putting themselves out there in a new chapter, whether it’s marketing a business or starting a YouTube channel or perhaps performing and singing on whatever it may be, what is it that you’re holding onto?

JAY SHETTY: It’s the identity and the reputation that that identity is built.

MEL ROBBINS: Okay, say more about that.

JAY SHETTY: Yes. So it’s saying, “Well, I’m a teacher. I can’t be a social media creator. I’m a teacher. That’s what my friends know me as. That’s not what my students know me as. That’s what my parents know me as. That’s what my kids know me as. How can I be a teacher and be a social media creator? It’s not possible.”

“Oh, I’m a nurse. How can I be a nurse and a podcaster? That can’t be the case. What do I have to offer? I’m a nurse. And by the way, that’s what everyone in my social circle knows me as. So now if I record a podcast, they’re going to look at me and think, wait, what does she have to say? What are you going to teach the world?”

“Oh, I’m a mom. I can’t be a mom and own a TikTok shop. I don’t know how to do that. I didn’t go to business school. I didn’t.”

So this is what we do. And the real reason is, because our social circle has validated or at least approved that current position, everyone in our social circle knows what that means. They recognize it and they understand it.

As soon as we do something that people don’t understand, we’re scared that they’re not going to like us. And as soon as we think they’re not going to like us for doing something they don’t understand, we leave behind what we love because we say, “Well, I can’t do it if they’re going to misunderstand me. I can’t do it if they’re going to dislike me.”

I have so many friends right now, Mel, honestly, that are scared to put out a video because they feel the pressure from their own friends. People are not feeling pressure from the world. People are usually not worried about the comments that will come many years into being a creator. It’s the people around us that we’re most worried about.

And so the only way we let go of that is recognizing and building this identity and insight that I can be a teacher and a creator. I can be a nurse and a podcaster. I can be a mom and own an online business. I can be two things at once, and I don’t need anyone else’s permission. And by the way, when I pull it off, even then they won’t understand. So it was never about them understanding. It was always about me focusing on what I love.

Becoming a Professional Quitter: Jay’s Journey of Reinvention

MEL ROBBINS: You know, I know that I’ve had, like, so many career changes. I sometimes feel like I’m a cover band for ABBA doing costume changes. Like, it’s not a resume. It’s like a choose your own adventure.

But you have had so many twists and turns in your career. You literally went from university to a massive, like, consulting job to pursuing, like, spiritual training as a monk, to then deciding having an epiphany. And at every one of those moments, there was that pressure that you’re talking about where you have to make a call that who you are and how you’re living your life no longer feels right. And then you, but you have always made the turn.

And so can you just, like, quickly kind of tell us a few of those moments so that the person listening understands that at any single moment, you are literally one decision away from turning your life in a different direction. And talk a little bit about what holds you back when that resistance shows up? Like, well, I can’t leave a consulting job.

JAY SHETTY: Thank you for saying that. And the idea is everyone needs to become a professional quitter, right? It’s like, we need to get really good at quitting.

And as I’m listening to you, I’m thinking back to, I remember when I decided to become a monk, pretty much no one around me understood why. I remember when I decided to leave the monastery, pretty much everyone around me didn’t understand why. When I decided to get a job in consulting after being a monk, people were like, “Why?”

When I decided to leave my successful consulting job to try and make videos online, people were like, “Why are you doing that?” Then when those videos became successful and I decided to launch a podcast, I had three podcast production companies tell me, “Jay, people like listening to you for four minutes. No one wants to listen to you for an hour. Don’t launch a podcast.”

So we launched a podcast anyway. And thanks to the millions of people that listen to you, that listen to us, that know us, that became a success. So I always listen to people, not the executives in the room.

Then I wanted to launch a book. Mel and I went to launch a book, and 14 out of 17 imprints told me, “Don’t call it ‘Think Like a Monk’ because no one wants to think like a monk.” Five years later, the book sold millions of copies, again, thanks to those people, not the people in the room.

Why am I sharing all of that? Because I didn’t know what the future held. It’s not that I had a really clear view of exactly where I was going, or that when I left the monastery, I knew I’d be here today, or that when we launched a podcast, I knew I’d be here.

And I want to get that thought out of people’s heads, that if I don’t have the full life mapped out and planned out, that I can’t take the first step because I don’t think I’ve ever known where my life’s going. And so this whole idea that you have to have everything figured out before you take your first step is the biggest lie we’ve been told.

This idea that if you don’t have a clear vision, you don’t know where you’re going, it’s the biggest lie we’ve been told. How could anyone possibly have every step mapped out? Tell me one person that we know in the world, anyone you look up to that could tell you they meticulously knew every single step. They didn’t, but they took that first step.

And I think that’s what’s holding us back, is this idea that I have to know everything before I do one thing.

The First Step: You Don’t Need to Know Everything

MEL ROBBINS: What is the one thing, though? Because I think that’s the thing that’s confounding until you actually figure out the riddle in life, right? It’s sort of like you can’t explain to somebody what it feels like to be married until you’ve done it.

JAY SHETTY: Yes.

MEL ROBBINS: You can’t explain to somebody how shockingly simple things can be until you’ve learned how to push through your own resistance to the things that you’re interested in and curious about, experimenting with or trying.

And so for somebody that’s never even considered a possibility for themselves beyond consulting or beyond where they’re at right now, or beyond the major that they had or beyond the city that they live in, what is that first step?

And is there a way, if you’re not even in touch with what it feels like to be pulled towards something new, to identify it in yourself? Because I think that’s one of the things that you do for people. You help people see a bigger possibility for themselves.

And it took me a long time to go from simply surviving and trying to pay bills and get through the day to understanding that there’s a different way to wake up and be tapped into the signals and the energetic things that pull you in different directions. Because I think that’s what you’re talking about when you say all you need to do is take one step.

JAY SHETTY: Yes. The step I’d say, in the most practical way to make it really, really simple for people and get away from any philosophical idea is it’s actually not about falling in love with something new or finding something else. It’s about extracting and learning every possible thing from where you are right now, whatever job you’re in.

MEL ROBBINS: But I don’t want to do that, Jay, because I hate where I’m at.

JAY SHETTY: That is the thing. You can hate where you’re at.

MEL ROBBINS: Yes.

JAY SHETTY: And still gain all the skills you need for your future. When I was a consultant, I knew I did not want to be a consultant for the rest of my life, but I learned so many incredible skills from consulting that are so useful today, whether it’s negotiation, whether it’s communication, whether it’s presentation, whether it’s connecting with clients, whatever it may be. There were so many skills.

If you’re working in a school, I promise you, there are so many skills in that school that are available that if you start learning, all of a sudden, that place you hate becomes a place that becomes a stepping stone for your next step.

The Mindset Shift: From Prison to Launchpad

MEL ROBBINS: So is there a mindset shift, like, from, “I hate this,” dread, like, there have been parts, there have been times in my life where I literally, you’re heading to work, you’re just like, “I do not want to walk through the door and actually have to be there today.”

So is there a mindset shift that you would advise us to just hold onto? Yes, because it shifts the experience of being where you are. What is that mindset shift?

JAY SHETTY: If you are going to spend eight to nine hours, maybe more at work every day, it’s not great to walk in and think that for nine hours a day, your mind is programming your thoughts to say, “I hate being here. I don’t want to be here. I can’t wait to get out,” because you’ve wasted nine hours of your day that could be used in building the next thing.

So the mindset shift is, “I do hate being here. I’m going to accept that. I’m going to acknowledge that. I’m not going to lie to myself, but I’m going to take everything I possibly can from this opportunity because it is a part of my story, and it is such a powerful part of my story, because this only makes the story better.”

“I’m going to learn from a place that I hate, and I’m going to learn everything I possibly can.”

And so that mindset shift is how do I turn and transform a place of misery and pain and potentially suffering into a place that becomes the launchpad of my life? And all of a sudden, now you’re walking into work thinking, “Oh, this is a launchpad. Oh, wait a minute, this is a step. This is the place where I take off from,” rather than, “Oh, this is a place that’s keeping me in prison.”

And I think that’s the switch that people need to make, because if you’re always looking for it outside of work, you’re only giving yourself two hours in the evening, maybe an hour if you’re lucky, after you’ve done the chores, put the kids to bed, washed the dishes.

So why not use those eight to nine hours to build skills, to build confidence, to build security that you have available to you?

MEL ROBBINS: Well, you know what else I hear? I hear trust.

JAY SHETTY: Yes.

MEL ROBBINS: Because I think a lot of times, at least me personally, when I felt very stuck, there was this intense feeling like I was in the wrong place, which then creates resistance. And what you just did is by saying, “If I’m going to spend eight hours here, then I’m going to get everything I can out of it,” because I trust that by doing that, I’ll actually find the next thing.

The Power of Collecting and Connecting

JAY SHETTY: There’s a beautiful book which talks about how really we find our purpose through sampling. And when I think of the word sampling, the way I describe it is collecting and connecting. You are collecting stories, experiences, skills, and ideas in every job you work in. And one day, after collecting for many, many years, you will connect the dots of all of those different skills, of all of those different experiences, and that’s when everything falls into place.

But if you don’t collect in the first place, there’s nothing to connect. It’s not about finding and discovering something. It’s collecting along the way. You’re collecting little jigsaw pieces, and then one day you spread them out and you put them down, and you start putting the pieces out, and they all fit, and you go, “Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe they connected.”

When I look back in my life and I think I’m as much as a consultant as I am a monk, as I am a media person, all of those things are really valuable parts of me. And it goes back to the point I was making earlier. I can’t be a nurse and a content creator. I can’t be this and that. Well, you can, because that is your superpower. Your superpower is that you did what you did in the past and what you do now.

MEL ROBBINS: And by the way, you already are those things.

JAY SHETTY: You already are those things, whether you like it or not.

MEL ROBBINS: And maybe that’s the whole point, that you already are those things, which is why you feel haunted when you are in a chapter in your life that is over and it’s time for you to move toward the next thing that’s already a part of you. And the reason why you know it’s already a part of you is because you actually feel pulled to make YouTube videos or pulled to go back to graduate school, or pulled to be in a different relationship.

Breaking Free from the “One Thing” Mindset

JAY SHETTY: And I think this all goes back to college and school in the sense that we were all forced to think you had to pick one thing your whole life. You were trained to say, “I’ve got to pick one thing that I’ve got to do for the rest of my life.” That’s how you were trained.

So when you were young, you start narrowing down your subjects, you get to college, you pick a major, you focus in on one thing, and you think you have to do that for the rest of your life. And then you start doing it for three years. And then three years into a new job, you go, “I don’t want to do this anymore. This isn’t what it was meant to be.”

But your whole life, you were told you could only be one thing. You had to pick one thing to focus on. So that’s why we’re so obsessed with this idea that my title should have to be one thing. I should be able to say, “I’m a lawyer, I’m an accountant, I’m a doctor, I’m a nurse, I’m a teacher, I’m a mom,” whatever it is. But I can’t be three things. That’s complicated.

But we’ve been forced to believe that you are that title. You are a manager, or, by the way, senior manager and you feel better about it, or executive and you’re made to feel better about it, but you’re only allowed to be that. You can’t then be anything else. And so I love it when I see people in their Instagram bios and people are like, “I’m a mom first, but I’m an executive second. I’m a this.” I love it that people are playing with that idea, because that’s the permission we need.

Purpose vs. Passion: Understanding the Difference

MEL ROBBINS: So, Jay, what is the difference between purpose and passion? And what do we get wrong about it?

JAY SHETTY: Passion is what brings you life. It’s what brings you joy. It’s what makes you feel like you’re doing something exciting and exhilarating and thrilling. So for me, it’s studying and learning and synthesizing. I could spend a weekend in a cave of books and never get out and make notes and study. That’s one of my greatest passions in life.

Your purpose is when you use your passion in the service of others. If your passion doesn’t have a service element, if you don’t use it to improve people’s lives, if you don’t use it to inform other people, if you don’t use it to make a difference in someone’s life, it’s not a purpose.

So let me give an example. If you’re a photographer and your favorite passion in the world is photography, you love finding unique locations. You love capturing human emotion, you love capturing memories for people. As soon as you start doing it for others, it’s a purpose. There you have it. It’s that simple. It’s not like you have to go on a whole charity trail and start taking pictures and giving them out for free. When you start capturing moments and you do it with that intent, it’s a service.

There’s a beautiful study that I love from Amy Wrzesniewski and her team at the Yale School of Management. So they went out in 2019 to research what they believed was the most difficult job in America. Any guesses, Mel?

MEL ROBBINS: Psychologically or physically?

JAY SHETTY: Well, they just went out. Yeah. To think what was the most difficult job? Yeah, that was up there.

MEL ROBBINS: Or public servant, I don’t know, all up there.

The Hospital Cleaners Who Became Healers

JAY SHETTY: The one that they decided on was hospital cleaner because they believe that these people not only have to wash bedsheets, pillows, floors, toilets, plates, they have to wash up after people pass away. So it’s a very heavy job. And also, you just finished cleaning a toilet, you leave, and now you got to run in and clean it again. It’s not as simple as, “Hey, we did that once and it doesn’t happen anymore.”

So they went and interviewed these hospital cleaners and they asked them what they did, and the hospital cleaners said, “We believe we’re low skilled labor.” In their own words, “We wash toilets, plates, floors.” They carried on and they found this whole group of hospital cleaners who didn’t call themselves cleaners, they called themselves healers and carers.

These healers worked the exact same hours as the cleaners. They worked the same hours, shifts. They worked the same hospitals. They got paid the same amount, but they were happier, more purposeful, and more productive. So they asked them, “Why do you call yourself healers?”

They said, and this blew my mind. Every time I think about this, it really makes me emotional because it’s so powerful. They said, “We believe that a clean hospital is integral to the healing journey of a patient. We think that when the hospital is clean, people have more dignity at a time of difficulty. We believe that when the hospital is clean that people’s families will spend more time with them. They’ll actually surround their bedside because it feels like a clean atmosphere in their time of need. We believe that a clean hospital is part of healing. So how could we see ourselves as anything else?”

What I love about that, Mel, is that Amy Wrzesniewski and her team came up with the term called “job crafting,” which means it’s not what you do every day, it’s how you feel about what you do every day that changes the experience of it. It’s not just what you do, it’s not even why you do it, it’s how you feel about it. How do you feel about what you do?

They all felt that what they did was critical to healing, and it transformed their experience. And there’s this beautiful quote from Wayne Dyer that I loved where he said, “When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.” And I really believe that that’s what we’re all being called to do right now. When you’re feeling stuck, you might not be able to change what’s around you. So change how you view it, change how you look at it, because all of a sudden everything starts to change in your favor.

Making Purpose Accessible

MEL ROBBINS: That is the single best definition of purpose I’ve ever heard, and it’s accessible. And I want to make sure that as you’re listening to Jay and you’re spending time together with us, that you really take away that definition.

Because even when you’re stuck or even when you’ve just got a lot going on, it’s very easy to identify the little things in your life that energize you. Whether it’s books like Jay or for me, it’s—I love gardening and flowers, and I love cooking. I love spending time with my family. I love making people smile. That brings me energy. I love being outside. I love learning.

And so when you take those things that naturally bring you energy and you do a little bit more of it, it lifts you up. But then when you figure out ways to extend those things that bring you energy in service of others, now you’re on the track of discovering why you’re here in the first place and aligning your life with purpose.

And so in that beautiful example you just gave, and thinking about it energizes people to be part of something where you’re caring for people, even in—

JAY SHETTY: The hardest job in the world. That’s why I use that example. Yes, because those individuals may not even be passionate about cleaning, but they’ve found a way to think about it differently. That’s why it touches my heart so much, because it’s in such a difficult space and environment.

And to your point, Mel, what you were just saying, I was talking to one of my team about this, and she was talking to me about how her mom didn’t really know what her purpose was. So I asked her, “What’s her passion?” And she said her favorite thing is to organize family trips. And so now her mom has started organizing family trips for not only her family, but the friends of her family and couples.

And so she’s a retired mom at this point in her life, but she loves planning trips. She lives vicariously through all of her kids and their friends and grandkids and whoever else it is. And that’s what she does. Now, that’s a purpose.

Your purpose doesn’t need to be this big thing that you have to go and change a million people’s lives or a billion people’s lives. If you can do that, that’s beautiful. But that’s not what a purpose is. A purpose is not defined by scale. It’s not defined by the amount of people you reach. It’s not defined by doing something big.

Your purpose doesn’t have to be your job. It doesn’t have to be something you dream of doing every day. Your purpose is simply using your passion in the service of others in the smallest of ways, in the simplest of ways. And it brings you so much joy.

And by the way, it also gives you validation for something beautiful that you do. We all want validation, we all seek it. And I want to just normalize that because I think people feel bad for wanting it. But we all need to feel wanted and needed and loved. It’s part of being human. But the problem is when you become someone you don’t want to be or do something you don’t want to do to get validation. Whereas when you get validated for using your passion in the service of others, there’s no greater feeling than that.

Purpose Is Everything, Not Just One Thing

MEL ROBBINS: You know, I want to give an example because I feel like one of the mistakes that I made for a long time when it came to, quote, “discovering my purpose” is that I thought it was one thing and it’s actually everything.

JAY SHETTY: Yes.

MEL ROBBINS: And so when we moved to southern Vermont and I remember feeling very stuck and in a new chapter and isolated and needing to meet all new friends and build community, I learned of this flower farmer and her flowers were—it was near the end of the summer and into fall and frost was coming and it’s dahlias and you need to dig them up. I know I’m getting really geeky on flowers.

And the frost was starting to hit and it was an entire field and they were all going to die. And I felt this ache because flowers bring me energy. I don’t know why. I tracked down the person who was growing the flowers and found out that they had had a health issue. And so I organized a bunch of women that I had recently met to help this person dig up the tubers.

That is an example that has nothing to do with career. It has nothing to do with my life’s mission and all the things I do for work. It is a small example of how I took something that energized me and used that energy that’s authentic to me in service of someone else. And that small example is an example of how you can infuse a sense of purpose in your day to day life in really small but deeply meaningful, important ways.

JAY SHETTY: Yes. Yes. I love that. And it’s so true. I’m thinking about Radhi. When Radhi first moved with me to America, she couldn’t work here because she was on a spouse visa. And until we got all that sorted out. And Radhi wasn’t always the writer of a New York Times bestselling cookbook. That’s a very recent iteration of her life.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, when we became friends, Jay, so, you know, you and I have been friends for a long time and we are extremely supportive and fond of one another. Our spouses know each other. But when I first met you and Radhi, she had not launched this part of her life.

The Power of Purpose Without Social Media

JAY SHETTY: Absolutely no social media, nothing. No content. Yeah, exactly. And so obviously we remember her like that. She isn’t like that to the world now. But I remember when we moved to LA, Radhi would just be really sad when we’d be driving around and see the homeless situation. And she always loved cooking. Like, she was always a fan of cooking. Since I’ve known her, she’s been an amazing cook.

She would literally just cook and deliver meals. She’d get involved in food distribution programs in the area. She’d go and find out and talk to communities of how she could help. Before she made any content, she was just out there doing that. And that’s what built her confidence in being able to do it and being able to deliver.

And then even when someone said to her, hey, would you cater? She said, I don’t want to do it as catering. She loves cooking as an act of love, as an act of service. If you come over, she’d want to cook for you because you’re a friend. That’s what she enjoys. She wants to cook for people in need. That’s what she gets passion from.

She doesn’t actually want to be said, hey, can you make 20 meals of this? That’s not actually what brings her joy. And so you can see how your purpose doesn’t have to be your job. Your purpose doesn’t have to be big. Your purpose doesn’t have to get you followers. Your purpose doesn’t need to have social media. It doesn’t need to have any of those things.

And actually, if you start without all of those things, you’ll build more confidence, more self worth, and more joy that then if you want to do any of those things, they’ll happen naturally. They’ll come as a byproduct of that infectious energy you feel and that I’ve seen Radhi feel.

Following Your Energy in Service of Others

MEL ROBBINS: Well, I want to come back to two themes and highlight it. You know, one of the things that you said is it’s not about imagining the thing out there. It’s about really stopping and listening and reflecting on what Jay is sharing with you about the fact that there’s something that’s already bringing you energy that when you do it, it just brings something out in you and then finding ways to do it in service of others.

So if you take the example of your wife, she’s focused on cooking as an act of love. It’s always been a creative expression. It naturally energizes her. And so she used that to lift herself up in a new chapter of her life. She found a way to be of service.

And the amazing thing about life is that when you align yourself with the things that naturally energize you and you—let’s come to a second thing we’ve talked about, Jay—trust that where you are is somehow in service of where you’re meant to go. Follow the energy and follow how you serve others in sharing that energy. And that is how you actually start walking in the path that is meant for you.

And I just want to point out that not only is she a New York Times bestselling cookbook author, but the name of the cookbook is “Joyful,” as in F-U-L-L because you’re full of her fabulous vegan cooking. And so she didn’t start cooking and serving people in LA because she’s like, I’m going to write a cookbook one of these days.

JAY SHETTY: Exactly.

MEL ROBBINS: She did it to lift herself up at a moment in her life where she was stuck and where she was moving to a new place. And so it’s so important to understand it’s not the thing that you’re imagining. It’s the energy in you, and it’s the ability to shift your mindset and trust that if you leverage that positive energy in service of others, it always, always, always points you where you’re meant to go.

Following the Whisper

JAY SHETTY: Yes. And people will say to us, but I don’t know what I like. I don’t know what gives me energy. I hear that a lot today.

MEL ROBBINS: You do?

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Where it’s like people are just like, I don’t know what gives me energy anymore. I’m kind of numb to it. Like, I think the point is not to find this big, bright light of energy from something. It’s this small, tiny voice. It’s been ignored for so long that the way it shows up within us isn’t always this big, loud scream. It’s this quiet little whisper that just says, try this. Give it a go.

It’s not this big calling. I think we think about callings, and what we want to do is this big, bright light of information and a sign. Signs are small. They’re whispers. They’re quiet. And I think if we just lean into that, it may just be the little voice in your head that says you love organizing birthdays. Why don’t you just organize a couple more birthday parties this year?

Oh, you’re really good at event planning. Why don’t you help your friend with their wedding? Oh, you know what? You’re really, really good at writing. Why don’t you just write a quote every day? Right. It’s that little voice. So just follow the whisper.

MEL ROBBINS: Do you think that your life, if you look backwards, also provides answers for what energizes you? Because I think it’s a very important point to validate that we are at a moment in time where the research bears out that over 80% of us are living in a state of chronic stress.

Yes, the feeling of being numbness is very, very common right now and probably a sign that you’re actually mentally well because there’s so much chaos and overwhelm and stuff. But so validating that. And even if somebody turns inward and doesn’t quite feel it, are there other things that someone can do that you would recommend to help access that? If you’re just at a point where you just—I am so spent. I don’t even know myself anymore.

You’re Already Successful at Something

JAY SHETTY: I promise you. And I really mean this. And I want everyone to really internalize this. As I say it, you are already successful at something. It’s just so easy to you that you don’t think of it as success. There’s something that comes effortlessly to you.

Maybe you graduated college with flying colors. Maybe you take care of your kids in the best way possible. Maybe you’re just incredible at showing up for your work colleagues. You already are extremely, incredibly successful at something. But because it’s easy for you and natural for you, you don’t think it’s a skill.

So look back at your life and look back at all the things that you’ve done beautifully. You showed up for your friends at college. You helped your colleagues through a tough time. You’ve already been doing that. You just don’t know what that looks like because you think that’s what a good person does. And it is what a good person does. But on top of that, it is value that you’ve been adding all along the way.

Look at the clues, look at the footprints, look at the steps behind and don’t take them for granted. Most likely, the things that you don’t value because they’re simple to you are the things that the world is looking for. Radhi’s cooking skill is something that comes really naturally to her. She’s worked on it, but it’s natural. She didn’t value it. She didn’t realize what a superpower it was.

MEL ROBBINS: So, Jay, for the person who’s listening, who’s now scanning their life and thinking about what they’re good at, and they’re coming up with nothing, what is your advice?

Ask the People Who Know You Best

JAY SHETTY: Here’s my number one piece of advice. Pick three people from your past. Could be a work colleague, a family member, and a friend. These are people that know you deeply, that you would say, know me really, really well. Not, don’t go and do this with anyone else. Do this with people that know you really well.

And just ask them, what’s something that I do that you always think of me? When you’re struggling with something, ask them, what’s something that I’ve done in the past for you or for anyone around us that made you go, wow, that’s really cool. That’s amazing. And then sit down and ask them, when you’re struggling with something, what do I help you do? What do I help you solve?

All of a sudden, you get all this input from the people that know you the best because they see in you what you don’t see in yourself. We have to remember that the people that know you and the people that love you, they see in you what you don’t see in yourself. What you undervalue is what they deeply value. What you take for granted is what they see as greatness. What you kind of think is normal and average, they adore about you.

But you’ve got to let them tell you that. You’ve got to let them remind you of that, because otherwise you’ll keep devaluing yourself.

MEL ROBBINS: You know what’s interesting is that I remember this was, like, two years before I started the podcast. I would literally listen. I still listen to your podcast, Jay, and watch your videos and find so much inspiration from you. I didn’t realize I kind of did that with you because I was very stuck.

I had reached a point where I was so tired of being on planes and doing the motivational speaking at corporate events, even though I loved it. And I so wanted to get into the podcasting space. And I always know when I want something because unlike you, who is a very, like, loving and positive person, my signs show up as jealousy. I don’t have the Monk version. I have the Mel Robbins version of inspiration. It’s sort of in that, like, agit, right?

And so you have this incredible podcast, and I literally felt so jealous and excited for you, but jealous because I’m like, Jay’s doing it, that means I can’t do it. And, you know, it’s already done. And since he’s already doing—he does such a great job with “On Purpose” and the most perfect name. And, you know, there’s like, you kind of see it in somebody else.

And you literally said to me, Mel, you know what you should be doing? When are you going to launch a podcast? Like, you would destroy it. And so you reflected to me the thing that you saw as the next thing that made the most sense. And so I love that advice because the people who do know you well can see the things that you don’t see in yourself or see the possibilities that you are actively holding yourself back from.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

Weak People Focus on Others’ Weaknesses, Strong People Focus on Their Strengths

MEL ROBBINS: You know, one of the things that you’ve said that I also love is you said weak people focus on others’ weaknesses. Strong people focus on their strengths. Can you unpack that?

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. It actually perfectly fits with what you just said. So, weak people notice other people’s mistakes and laugh. Strong people notice other people’s mistakes and learn. Weak people talk about other people’s problems to feel better. Strong people talk about other people’s problems to become better. Weak people gossip about others to build fake connections. Strong people express vulnerability to build real ones.

And this one’s the kicker that you were just talking about. Weak people envy people ahead of them. Strong people study people ahead of them. And the interesting thing is both people are looking at the same thing, but they’re seeing different things because no one is a weak or strong person. It’s just what you focus on. And that’s what I want people to realize. There’s a switch. The switch for envy is study.

If you’re jealous of someone, if you’re envious of someone, study them. And I know we’ve had so many conversations where we both taught each other so much stuff. You’ve always been so kind to share so many insights and lessons. I know I’ve done the same with you. That’s what we do. We study each other. And all of a sudden that envy turns into appreciation. Admiration, just complete awe. Because you’re like, now I know what it takes, right?

I remember when I used to see Cristiano Ronaldo, who I’m a huge fan of, and I’ve been a fan of him ever since he was 17 years old. And so I must have been like 14 or something like that when I started following him. This is 20 years ago now. You’re talking about more than that. And you look at him and you think, oh, my God, like, look how he looks. Look how he plays everything else.

The moment you start studying his routine, you realize what it actually takes. Someone can sit there and envy and be jealous of his life, which is natural, by the way. And I don’t want to make that seem like a bad thing. But you turn jealousy into study, you turn envy into study, and all of a sudden it’s your best friend. Envy can be your best friend if you just replace it for study.

MEL ROBBINS: 100%, I love that. And that’s exactly what I did. The thing that’s interesting is that the reason why I wanted to highlight that jealousy can be a useful tool. Jealousy for me is very different than envy, because when I would look at you, I would never envy you. Like, you don’t deserve that. Jealousy, for me, is this deep stirring because it’s impossible to be jealous of something that’s not meant for you.

JAY SHETTY: Yes.

The Power of Envy as a Learning Tool

MEL ROBBINS: And so I’ve never been jealous of anybody who drives a Lamborghini. I’ve never been jealous of anybody that lives in a penthouse apartment. I’ve never been. You know what I’m saying? I don’t want those things.

But there was something about the way that you took something that energizes you—learning, connection, purpose—and you created a business that was in service to others around the things that energize you. And that’s what was, I think, ultimately the thing that was stirring something in me. And it’s a super, super useful tool.

But the other thing I wanted to validate is that the second I said, “I’m going to walk toward this thing, I’m going to figure this out,” I spent two years studying you, talking to you, and that piece of allowing yourself—and it goes back to what you said about the experiment, learn, reflect.

And part of reflecting is experiment with something. I was a student for two years. There’s a reason why we came out of the gate and launched two episodes a week. It’s because I learned from you that if you do want to have a successful show, you have to do at least that many episodes.

And so the learning part and the studying others and allowing others to lead the way and to show you and to truly flip envy into learning from somebody that is worth $100 million in your life, to understand that everybody that is out in the world right now is somebody that you can learn from, it’s just unbelievable.

And so thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing that. And, you know, there’s another quote that you have that I absolutely love, Jay. “We judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.” What does that mean?

Judging Intentions vs. Actions

JAY SHETTY: This is something that actually my monk teachers used to repeat to us a lot, and it’s a reality check that’s a bit of a punch in the gut. So we judge ourselves by our intentions, and we judge other people by their actions.

So if we feel our intention was good, we feel we’re good people. But if someone has a bad action, we feel they’re bad people. Whereas what we should be doing is allowing other people to be judged also for their intentions and their actions.

So it’s a plea, a proposal, a pledge to say, before you judge someone, before you put someone in a box, please learn what their intention was. Because often you’ll find that their intention probably wasn’t as malicious as you think. It wasn’t as manipulative as you think, it wasn’t as crazy as you think. It was the same as yours. They, too, had good intentions. They also got into it with good intentions.

But we judge ourselves by our intentions. So we think we’re good people, and we judge other people by their actions, and so we think they’re bad people. If I made a mistake and you judge me for my action, all of a sudden you’ve labeled me. But my intention was so pure and so genuine.

I’ll give you an example of something that happened recently to me that I feel really, really applies to this. And I was doing something with a friend, and we did a podcast together, and I was traveling on the road or whatever, and I didn’t post something about it.

And my friend messaged me and was just feeling really upset that I hadn’t supported them, that I hadn’t noticed them, that I hadn’t recognized them. And now we’re really good friends, so they were able to vocalize it to me, right? But if we weren’t, they would have immediately judged and thought that I had some ulterior motive or some agenda.

And the truth is, I’m so disconnected from my social media in the sense that I don’t post, I’m not there. I’m on the road. I try and stay off my phone for most of the day. And all of a sudden I was thinking, “Wait a minute. If they judge me for my action, it looks like I don’t care about them. It looks like I don’t value them. It looks like this isn’t important to me.”

But my intention was, “I love you. You’re one of my favorite people. I’m here to help you in whatever way possible.” And I just think about the amount of friendships we’d save, the amount of relationships we’d save, if we just learned to judge people for their intentions, not their actions.

How to Navigate Assumptions in Relationships

MEL ROBBINS: Do you have a little trick? Because my emotions and pettiness can just flood me. I’ve never had training as a monk, Jay, so I would imagine your sort of engine doesn’t rev as high as mine, but it is so easy to see friends out together and then immediately judge them for their actions, that they’re excluding you, that they must be talking about you, that now they’re closer than you are to them, that it means something. It means you did something.

And then, of course, you respond to all of that emotion. We are so fast to assume. Is there anything that you do or that you recommend that people do?

JAY SHETTY: Mel, there’s this thing, I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. It’s called the Let Them Theory. Sorry, I had to. I had to. I was waiting for you. Which is really good. There’s “let them” and then “let me” in it, and it works perfectly, which I genuinely believe. It’s amazing.

But to answer your question, I’ll be honest with you. When it’s people that I know, I tell them. I really believe it’s important to tell people. I check in with them. I ask them, because if I know you, our relationship—if our relationship means I can’t ask you the question, then it’s a weak relationship.

If I ask you the question and we have a great conversation now, our relationship is strengthened by it. We actually got closer. A hard conversation should make you closer to the person. A hard conversation should not make you further away from them.

MEL ROBBINS: Say that again, Jay.

JAY SHETTY: If you love someone and they say they love you, a hard conversation should bring you closer together. A hard conversation should not push you away from each other. If you’re scared to have a hard conversation with someone you love, that means you’re not that close.

MEL ROBBINS: Dude, I think that’s—those are the hardest people to talk to, though.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. But that should be the easiest person to talk to because you should be able to have a safe space to raise it. And so if I’m close to someone, if it was me and you, I would call you up, and I actually trust we’d have a great conversation because of it. I know that. I actually believe that if we ever had anything like that, which we haven’t, I would call you.

But what I find is, if you can’t call the person, I would just think about this is the second part of that statement. My monk teachers would always say, instead of judging people by their actions, judge them by their intentions. And judge yourself by your actions, not your intentions.

Think about all the stupid things you’ve said you’ve done and got wrong. And all of a sudden you start to recognize, “Wait a minute, if someone judged me for that, I’d feel pretty bad about it. That doesn’t define me. That’s not who I am.” And all of a sudden, when you have that reflection, it flips the entire statement. “Wait a minute. That can’t be who I am. And that’s not who they are.”

Someone Would Love to Live Your Worst Day

MEL ROBBINS: Amazing. Here’s another thing that you said recently, Jay, that I love. “Someone out there would love to live your worst day.” What does that mean?

JAY SHETTY: We’re really quick to forget that the day we’re living today is a day we dreamed of 10 years ago. Maybe not in a complete picture. Maybe you have the family you always wished for. Maybe you’re on the career path that you’ve worked really hard for. Maybe you’re sitting in the home that you couldn’t even have imagined living in.

But there’s a part of your life that is exactly the life that you wanted. Not all of it, but there’s a part of it. And when you forget that, you lose out on recognizing you’re already living in the dream and that you already have the power to create that future dream because you’ve already done it once.

So you have to remember that where you are today is what you wanted yesterday. And what you want today, you can create tomorrow because you’ve already done it once. But we forget it so quickly.

I have to remind myself all the time, Mel. I was driving to one of my friends’ homes the other day, and this is a friend that I used to grow up watching on television, watching their movies, listening to their music. And they’ve become one of my closest friends in life. And I had to pinch myself. Now we’ve been friends for like seven years. I had to pinch myself to be like, “Do I know what I’m doing?”

I have to go back to being at the beginning of that journey. Because otherwise you can take anything for granted. It’s like you get to the top of a mountain after a long hike and you look at a view. You can get really familiar and bored of that view really, really quick. Unless you recognize the challenge it took, the steps you took, the person you saw on the way up.

You have to sit there and remember all of that. But the memory does this weird thing where it just forgets it. As soon as you achieve something, you forget how you dreamt of achieving it. As soon as you get somewhere, you forget how, once upon a time, you couldn’t even imagine getting there.

Where you are today is what you wanted yesterday. And don’t forget how you got there, because that’s the hidden secret of how you get to the next place.

Using Gratitude in Difficult Moments

MEL ROBBINS: How do you use gratitude to lift yourself up in a moment that is extraordinarily difficult? You know, you’re grieving, you’re in the middle of a breakup or a divorce, you’ve lost your job. Is there a way to use gratitude to lift yourself up when life just really has knocked you down?

JAY SHETTY: When life’s knocked you down, it’s hard to be grateful for the good things in your life. And it’s sometimes bad advice because someone’s just lost a marriage, lost a family member, whatever it may be.

MEL ROBBINS: So there’s the time for grieving, of course.

JAY SHETTY: Absolutely.

MEL ROBBINS: And that’s the mentally healthy response to have the avalanche of emotions.

JAY SHETTY: But if you’re going to be grateful, you sometimes have to do a counterintuitive practice. Instead of being grateful for what you have, think about how your life would be without something. I find that to be the greatest thing for gratitude.

If I try and be grateful for something that I’ve had for a long time, I may get bored of it, I may be familiar with it. But if I ask myself, “What would my life be without that?” Oh, my gosh, all of a sudden, I’m so grateful.

What would my life be without—have you ever had it where you just hurt your little finger or get a little cut, and now you can’t use a finger or you can’t use a thumb, and all of a sudden you’re like, “Oh, my God, I’m so grateful for my hand.” And because what would my life be like without it?

This is the way we have to trick our mind. Humans are better at noticing something when it’s about to go away. We always hear the phrase, “You don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone.” So we have to use that in our favor to think, not, “What do I have that I’m so grateful for?” “What could I not live without that is life changing?”

MEL ROBBINS: I’ve never actually thought about it like that. I was sitting there the moment you said it, and I thought, “How would I—if Jay wasn’t in my life?” And I’m grateful for you, but the second I envisioned you, sorry, Jay, evaporating and not knowing you as a friend, it’s like it 10x’d it.

And even the example of, you know, you said the finger. I was in the hotel the other night and I was walking to the bathroom, of course, as a 56-year-old woman, at 3 o’clock in the morning and I hit my toe on the bed frame. You heard it all the time. And it feels like you’ve ripped it off your foot.

It’s amazing to me that my experience of that is, you know, screaming in agony and then thinking, “How can something so little hurt so much?” And your reframe is, “Imagine my life without my foot.” And the gratitude that floods you. I mean, that’s incredible, Jay.

JAY SHETTY: It really works. It really works. It really works. So simple. And you know, you can apply it to small and big things. But even I was thinking, as you were saying, friendship, I was thinking about our friend Dave Hollis.

MEL ROBBINS: Oh, yeah.

JAY SHETTY: And you know, I know you spoke at his funeral and I sadly couldn’t be there. But as I’m thinking about it, I’m like, I was grateful for Dave. I actually had some really beautiful interactions with Dave. Same. I really did. He was a wonderful man.

But it’s only when you sadly lose someone that you really recognize, wait a minute, I can’t call them again. I’m not going to get a call from him again. I’m not going to see him at our next get together. And then all of a sudden, so like, do that while people are here.

And it’s not a fear thing, it’s a gratitude thing. Right. It’s not like I’m living in fear of what if I lose this person? You’re asking yourself, what would my life be without this? Oh my gosh, I’m so glad I have it. I’m so grateful I have it. I’m so lucky and fortunate I get to have this. That’s what you’re fueling your life with, not with fear.

MEL ROBBINS: I really, I want to thank you for that because especially that last part about you can actually kind of do things out of fear or you can have the fuel and the energizing source of it be gratitude. And I’ll give you an example.

JAY SHETTY: Please.

MEL ROBBINS: So my dad is 80 years old and I think a lot about the fact that if I’m lucky, I’m going to get 10 more, maybe 15 more if I’m crazy lucky holidays with him, birthdays with him. And I realize as I’m listening to you that I’ve been coming from this sense of fear, because there’s this sense, like, I got to make the most of the time that I have while I have the time.

And I can take what you just shared and say, I am so grateful that he’s here, that I want to make use of the time that I have while he’s here. Which is a very different energy to ground yourself in.

JAY SHETTY: You’re so right. You’re spot on. It’s this idea of having the full picture.

MEL ROBBINS: Talk more about that. What do you mean?

The Full Picture: Why Comparison Fails

JAY SHETTY: And I want to approach it from a really interesting take, and it comes from what we were talking about a few seconds ago, around comparison. So, Mel, there’s really only, apart from what we said about how to turn jealousy, which I love, there’s really only one way to overcome comparison, and it’s having the full picture of the person you compare yourself to.

You’ve got to know what’s happening behind their perfect Instagram posts. Do you know how many times they cried themselves to sleep this week? Do you know the argument they just had with their mom last night? Do you know the challenge they’re going through with their kids right now? Do you know about the family member who has an illness?

All of a sudden, when you actually get the full picture on someone’s life, you now don’t compare yourself to them because you realize no one’s life is perfect. They’re just better at cropping out the pain. They’re just better at editing out the parts that they don’t want you to see. But when you see what someone’s really going through, all of a sudden you won’t compare it anymore because you recognize everyone’s going through something difficult.

Bad Times Reveal Great People

MEL ROBBINS: Jay, another thing that you remind us all that I just love is that bad times reveal who the great people are in your life.

JAY SHETTY: Do people show up for you when you’re going through a bad day? Are people present for your good days but absent for your bad days? Do people turn up, call, check in when things are going wrong? Does someone see the best in you when you’re your worst self? Does someone see the good in you when you might be having a bad day?

That person is more special than anyone you’ll ever meet. So keep them close. Don’t run the risk of pushing them away, losing them, taking them for granted, because one day you’ll wish that they’ll call and check in, and you might have lost them by then.

So the bad times in our life genuinely show us the great people, because it’s at that point that you’re hard to support, you’re hard to love, you’re hard to give energy to. It might not be popular to be your friend, which, what does that prove? It proves that person values you more than popularity. It proves that person values you more than their reputation. It proves that that person values you more than all the stress.

That is the most special person you’ll ever meet. And everyone has at least one of them. But the problem is, we want attention from these people so we lose affection from these people.

MEL ROBBINS: It’s so true. You’re really good at that. You’re really good at showing up for your friends.

JAY SHETTY: It’s because people have shown up for me. That’s the reality of it. I’m good at showing up for people because people have shown up for me. And it’s not always the same people. That’s the mistake we make. We think that the people we show up for should be the people that show up back for us.

MEL ROBBINS: Oh, say more about that.

Love Is a Circle

JAY SHETTY: So we believe that when we show up for someone, yeah, they should show up for us. We want people to love us in the same way we love them. But people won’t love you the way you love them. And that’s okay, because there’s someone over here who’s showing up for you, and you’re missing out on them. There’s someone over here who’s turning up for you, who’s checking in on you.

I remember saying to my monk teacher, I said, I feel like I give so much love to others. I said, I feel like I show up so much for other people, but they don’t show up for me. What do I do?

And he said, “Love is like a circle. Whatever love you give out will always come back to you, but it might just not be from those people you gave it to in the first place.” But if you spend your whole life wondering why that person doesn’t give you love back, you’re ignoring all these people over here who give you love all the time.

So turn around, look around you. There is someone who’s showing up for you, turning up for you, checking in with you. Even when you don’t acknowledge them and start looking towards that person and giving them some respect.

MEL ROBBINS: I want to dig deeper into that.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, please.

MEL ROBBINS: Because I feel like relationships have become extremely transactional. If I check in on you, you got to check in on me. That’s the sign that you care. And I love what you just said, that there are going to be times where you show up for people and they’re not going to show up for you, either because they can’t, or they don’t know what’s going on, or they got other things going on, or they’re not actually the right person to support you right now.

And them showing up feels more like it is going to feel more like a burden. And so maybe that’s also, spiritually speaking, why they’re not showing up. And I love the fact that if you think about love like a circle and you show up because that’s who you are. And in those moments when you need support, recognize that there actually are people around you trying to support you or that are capable of it if you simply let them know that you need it.

That’s a completely different way to think about things, because we keep score in relationships. And that if I’m the one that’s always reaching out to my siblings, that if they don’t reach back to me, that it means they don’t care. And sometimes it actually just means that’s not how they express their love. And that the thing that you’re seeking from them actually is going to come from a friend.

And if you’re keeping score in your relationships, you’re actually the one that’s going to destroy them.

JAY SHETTY: Yes.

MEL ROBBINS: Can you dig into that with me, Jay?

Love vs. Transaction

JAY SHETTY: Oh, that’s powerful, Mel. I love what you’re saying, and it’s so true. The first thing we have to ask ourselves is, did I show up for you for you, or did I show up for you for me?

MEL ROBBINS: What do you mean?

JAY SHETTY: If I’m showing up for you for you, then I don’t need you to show up back for me. But if I showed up to prove to you that I showed up, now I need you to show up back for me to prove to me that I did the right thing. It’s almost like an insecurity of, like, I’m doing it because I expect you to do it back, which is what you said at the beginning. It’s transactional.

If I do something for you and I don’t expect anything back, that’s called love. If I do something for you and I expect it back, that’s called a transaction. That’s business. That’s a contract. I don’t want to have a contract with someone I love, so why would I be measuring them based on how they do the exact same thing back for me?

If you think about that, let’s say, Mel, I organized your birthday party because I love organizing birthday parties. Does that mean you have to organize my birthday party to show me you love me equally? What if you didn’t organize my birthday party, but you called me when I had a really tough day at work and you checked in with me and gave me some great wisdom and insight. Is that equal or actually, do I see that as not equal? Because you didn’t spend seven days or seven months planning an event for me.

Now, are we cutting time or are we measuring emotion? How do you value two? I can’t value you based on the hours you put into our friendship. Let’s say that I was struggling something and you sent me a text, but when you were struggling, I called you up. Does that mean I care more about you? Or was that text just perfect for what I needed?

We’re measuring these very immeasurable things. Are we counting days, hours, months, emotions, laughs? What are you going to keep a score on? And so I think we’re keeping a score on things that you can’t measure.

Beyond Love Languages

And this is one of the limits I have with the love languages. I actually don’t want you to love me the way I want to be loved.

What do you mean by that? I believe that if I want you to love me exactly the way I want to be loved, I’m actually limiting how much you can love me because you have something to offer me that is different to what I even know I can receive.

So if I say to you, Mel, the only way you can show me love is gifts because that’s what blows my mind. That’s great. I do like gifts. But guess what? What if your best way to offer love is acts of service? What if your best way of love is quality time? Now I’m going to miss out on the greatness you have to offer me because I’m going to say, I only want you to give me this. What if you wanted to give me the world and I said, just give me a gift?

So I’m limiting, I’m limiting how much love. So when love matures, I think when love is young, it’s a great principle. But when love matures, and by the way, me and Radhi have been through this. When I met Radhi, I was that guy. So I love gifts. And I had to do a lot of unpacking as to why I love gifts.

MEL ROBBINS: Why do you love gifts?

Opening Yourself to Love

JAY SHETTY: It’s because my mom couldn’t always be there for me on my birthday. We couldn’t spend quality time. She was working, she was the breadwinner. But she always got me that one gift. I’d come home and the Power Ranger would be wrapped up there, and I’d unwrap it and I’d have so much joy.

So when I met Radhi, Radhi comes from a family where quality time is the gift. They don’t really give each other gifts. Which to me, when I first met her, I was like, this is bizarre. What is wrong with all of you? And I wanted, this is ridiculous.

But I remember the new iPad mini was out, and I’d kind of hinted to her that I wanted this iPad mini. Anyway, I unwrapped my gift on my birthday, and it’s an Asus. I was like, I wanted an iPad mini. Who gets someone an Asus? And it sounds ridiculous, but I’m telling it because of how ridiculous we can be.

And she literally said to me, she was like, oh, no. But I asked my family, and they said, this one’s got better specs, and it’s actually better than the iPad and it’s better resolution. I was like, but I wanted the iPad.

And I’m telling this story because Radhi and me learned as our relationship developed that Radhi had so many beautiful ways to show me love, and she turned up in so many amazing ways. But I would ignore all of them because I didn’t get a gift on my birthday or the gift I wanted on my birthday.

And I think so many of us are ignoring the amazing ways our partners, our kids, our parents show up for us because they don’t show up in exactly the way we want.

And here’s the point. No one will ever love you exactly how you want, because that’s your job, and that’s God’s job. We will wish, wait, want, every single week, month, and year for someone to love us in a particular, exact way. And they will always fail us, because that was your job. It was never theirs in the first place. That was God’s job. It was never theirs in the first place.

So open yourself up to the limitless love that people show up. Maybe your partner makes you coffee in the morning. Maybe they’re the ones that make the bed. Maybe they’re the one when you’re on the road to check in with you and order something to your hotel room. Maybe they’re the one that reminds you that you forgot your glasses or your wallet. Maybe they’re the one that remembers to put the dishes away.

Whatever it is, they’re doing something and it’s love. They may not say, “I love you.” It may not look like “I love you,” but it is.

And by the way, when you tell them, “Hey, you didn’t get me this one thing or you didn’t say this one thing,” they’re thinking, “How did you miss all of the other things?” And guess what? You discourage them from loving you.

You don’t encourage someone to love you by telling them you’re disappointed. No one’s going to give you more because you made them feel bad. People love you more when they see you noticed all the little things they did, and all of a sudden they feel inspired to give you more.

MEL ROBBINS: Jay, it really, as I was listening to you, I was first of all thinking about what an ahole I am in my marriage. So thanks a lot.

JAY SHETTY: We love you, Chris.

MEL ROBBINS: Because I so saw myself. Right.

JAY SHETTY: And then too, by the way.

MEL ROBBINS: Yeah. And then something extraordinary happened as I was listening to you. And that is, what a shame that most of us are so busy looking for the one way we expect to be loved, that we miss all of the love that is around us and available to us that we don’t let in.

And what an opportunity to have a shift and really change the way that you see life, you see relationships, and what you open yourself up to. If there’s one thing from that perspective and what you learned about yourself and what you learned about what’s possible, that being loved the way you want to be loved is your job. It’s God’s job, it’s the universe’s job. It’s not somebody else’s job.

And I would say learning how to allow in other people’s expression of love is a huge opportunity for you, whether it’s your friends, whether it’s your parents, whether it’s, you know, your kids, your partner, everybody. Like, how do you do that?

Especially if you’ve been a first class ahole like me and just been like, “You didn’t do it this way.” And “I thought you’d be like,” “Nobody texted me on the thing and nobody checked in.” Like, we’re so focused on what’s not happening that you’re blocking what actually is. And then you just keep preventing it from being an experience that’s available to you right now.

Recognizing Consistent Love

JAY SHETTY: Thank you for sharing that. And by the way, I feel the same way, too. It took me so many years of unpacking to understand why I was so fixated.

But the way I think about it is the person that texts you when they don’t want anything, don’t forget that person. The person who calls you when they don’t need anything, don’t forget that person. The person who comes over and swings by just for a chat, even when you’re busy, don’t forget that person. The person who walks in and remembered that you had something happening at work or something happening in your home or something happening in your life. Don’t forget that person.

We do it by starting to recognize those people in our life that are not big and crazy, but they’re consistent. The consistent people in our life are the people that are forgotten. The people who’ve become like furniture, the people who’ve become so familiar.

But guess what? They were the people that texted you when they needed nothing. They’re the people that called you when they wanted nothing. They’re the people that checked in with you with no transaction required.

Take a moment to just think of that person and message them now. And don’t ask for anything. Just tell them. Tell them how you feel. Message them and say, “Thank you so much for showing up for me when you didn’t want anything in return. Thank you so much for checking in with me when you got nothing out of it.” Acknowledge them for that. Because we have to start noticing it. We have to start noticing it.

It’s so easy. And this is why I have this habit that whenever I think of someone, I send them a message. Whatever my thought may be, I’ll send them a message. And the message will just say, “Thinking of you, Mel. Sending you lots of love.”

And I do it all the time. The amount of times in the last month that that person has responded to me immediately and said, “I was just talking about you. I was just thinking about you. Oh, my gosh, I was just sharing something you put online or shared on Instagram or whatever it may have been.” The amount of times that’s happened is truly blowing my mind.

And I’ve realized, because, you know, we all have this sense, you and I, all of us, everyone who’s listening and watching right now has this intuition when someone needs us. But we’re scared. We’re scared to message with no reason. We’re scared we might be disrupting someone or they’re too busy. We’re scared.

But no, no, no. That’s what that person wants. That person wants you to just send love when they’re busy. That person wants you to say hello when they’re having a crazy day. Because guess what? You’re the only person doing that. Everyone else is asking for something or wants something from them.

The best time to message someone is when you don’t want anything.

The Power of Small Acts

MEL ROBBINS: You actually talk about this a lot online. The power of calling somebody, the power of texting somebody, and how much we underestimate this small action.

And you also said that we have this amazing sense to sense when somebody needs you. And what I would ask us all to consider is that the people that you care about always need you. And that check in is you doing something that we all need, which is this small act of loving somebody and seeing them and just saying, “I have you in mind.”

One of the reasons why I always tell the person who’s listening that I love them is because I think we just vastly inflate what that word actually means. And to me, when you look at the word love, it’s two things. It’s you admire something in someone else, some quality, some characteristics, something about them, and you consider them, you have them in mind.

And if you admire somebody, something about their values, something about how they show up in life, something about who they are, what they mean to you, and you have them in mind. To your point, sending a text just to say, “I was just thinking about you,” or making somebody a cup of coffee with the cashew milk, because that’s what they care about. That’s actually an act of love.

JAY SHETTY: It is.

MEL ROBBINS: And if we go all the way back to the janitors in the hospital who say that they are healers because they believe that having a clean space for families to gather, for people to heal is a sacred thing to do for the healing process, then you are demonstrating an act of love. How do you think about love?

JAY SHETTY: How do I think about love? Such a beautiful and big question.

MEL ROBBINS: Because I feel like, you know, we’re coming out of this conversation about how we block it because we’re expecting it to be expressed in a certain way and that it is all around you.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

MEL ROBBINS: And you’re a person in my life that you show up that way. I mean, there’s what you do, which is your job and the things that you are doing, that is in service of the world, but it’s not who you are. And my experience of you is somebody who is the expression of love.

Love as an Unlimited Force

JAY SHETTY: Thank you. You’re so sweet. That touches my heart.

I think what you just said, there’s even more interesting about blocking love. If you still see your mom calling, that’s a blessing. If you still see your dad’s name on your phone sending you a text, that’s a blessing.

Ten years from now, you’re not going to remember the meeting you were in. Twenty years from now, you’re not going to remember the task you were doing. That’s how we block love. We block love because when it’s coming in, when it’s coming freely, when it’s coming unlimitedly, we don’t know how to hold on to it.

There’s this beautiful poem from India that says, “When God wants to give us something, how much can these two little hands hold on to? And when things are taken away from us, how much can these two little hands hold on to?”

And it’s this beautiful idea of God’s ever flowing love that’s unlimitedly there. And we can just try, catch and hold whatever we can. And at the same time when something’s going away, there’s an insignificance that we have where we can’t hold on to it anymore.

So what do we do? We pick up the call, we return it, we message back. We don’t block it by saying, “Oh, they just keep connecting,” or “That person just keeps calling,” or “That person just…” The amount of people that are blocking love because they’re thinking that person’s needy or that person’s desperate, or that person’s not cool enough to be my friend, or that person’s not interesting enough to be my friend.

I know so many people today that are leaving friendships and relationships behind because the person’s not cool enough, smart enough, talented enough, whatever it is. Because when someone shows and wears their heart on their sleeve, we see that as a weakness.

We believe that love is chasing someone rather than wanting someone who never wants to leave. We would rather chase, pursue and court someone. Because we believe that love has to be earned rather than receive it freely from all of these people around us who are giving it to us unlimitedly.

Because we think that love is valuable if it’s rare. We believe that love is valuable if it’s given in small doses. If someone’s holding it back a little, it feels like power and that feels like love to us. But that’s not love. It’s control. That’s not love. It’s manipulation. That’s not a partnership, it’s ownership.

So if you’re looking for a relationship, love should just flow freely. Love is not measured. It’s not calculated, it’s not counted. It’s not some algorithm, it’s not a number. It’s completely a free flowing, energetic force.

And it is in your life. It is flowing within you. You are made of it. You actually made of it. And it is flowing freely within you, to you at all times. It’s why you are alive.

But if you block it, it’s like when the sun’s out and you turn the blinds down. The sun is freely showering its rays onto every single home. The sun does not discriminate. The sun will freely give its sun to everyone. But if you put the shades down, you’re blocking it. Don’t do that.

Opening the Shades

MEL ROBBINS: There’s so many people that feel isolated and lonely, Jay. If somebody’s listening and they’re like, “The shades are down, Jay. And there aren’t people in my life.” What is one thing somebody can do that recognizes that the shades are drawn for whatever reason? How do you start to crank it back up and let all of that that is available to you—friendship, love, connection, possibility, hope, all of it—what’s one thing that somebody could do?

The Power of Giving Love

JAY SHETTY:

Be that person. Be the person to text someone love. Be the person to call in and check in on someone, even if they don’t check in on you. Be the person who goes and helps someone with their groceries because they need it. Be the person who goes and gives love to others, even if they’re not feeling it back.

Because that’s the beautiful thing about love. Love is not only experienced in receiving, it’s experienced in giving. That’s the most phenomenal thing about love, is that when you’re giving someone something special, you feel love just as much as they do. Sometimes we feel it even more than when we’re receiving something, right?

There’s this feeling of when you’ve done something for someone you love. There’s a joy in it. You said you love gardening. Gardening is the best analogy for this. There is no rose in the world that grows the day you plant the seed. There is no plant in the world that grows the day you plant the seed. It takes months, sometimes even years for a tree to have a beautiful fruit or a beautiful flower. And it takes a particular season.

Now, if you planted that seed and said, “Why don’t I have a fruit today?” It wouldn’t make sense. I’d look at you like you’re crazy. But that’s what we do in love. We plant the seed today, and we want the fruit, the flower, and the shade today.

And the deepest form of love is something that Emerson said: “Plant trees under whose shade you do not plan to sit.” And that’s what you do. You are helping so many people that you probably don’t even know. Hopefully they’ll get to meet you one day and tell you. Mel, I really hope that you get to hear it, but there’ll be so many people who never do. But you’re not doing it for that. You’re doing it because you’re happy for trees to just exist so that other people can get fruits and flowers and shade.

So let’s not sit here and plant the seed today and expect to eat the fruit today. It doesn’t work that way. Plant the seed and keep planting the seeds. And you will find decades from now, there will be someone who comes to you 25 years from now and says, “You did this one thing.”

Honoring the Teachers Who Shaped Us

JAY SHETTY:

I love calling my teachers. I love calling old teachers. I’m really good friends with all the schools I went to. I love calling professors, teachers, talking about them in interviews, making them feel really embarrassed, and just saying how much they changed my life and how much I love them. Because I don’t think they knew that then.

At that time, I was just a teenager who had teenage issues and didn’t care about teachers and probably, you know, whatever. I was just a kid. Now when I look back, I’m like, that teacher changed my life. Let me tell them. And that’s a seed that they planted all those years ago.

So live for that. You know, let’s live for that. Let’s not live for this instant immediate love.

MEL ROBBINS:

Who is a teacher from when you were little?

JAY SHETTY:

Oh, gosh, there’s a couple. So there’s two that come to mind as soon as you say that. One is Mr. Buckeridge, who was my art teacher. And I loved art at school. And actually, when I was 11 years old, my favorite subject was math, and my least favorite subject was art. And when I went to high school, my favorite subject was art, and my least favorite subject was math.

I fell in love with art because of this teacher. There was something beautiful he taught me, and I really owe this to him. Every time I presented a piece of work, he’d say to me, “Why did you do it?” And at that time, I didn’t have an answer. I just did it because it looked good. It looked cool. My answer was that basic: “Yeah, they look good together. The colors match. Oh, this looks cool. It looks trendy.”

And he’d never be satisfied with that. He’d say, “Why did you do it?” And he kept asking me that. And in the beginning, it would annoy me. It’d be like, “God, come on, it looks good. Who cares? Just give me an A.” He loved how it looked. But he wouldn’t. He wasn’t satisfied with that. “Why?”

I believe he’s the reason I became such an intentional person, because he didn’t allow me to place one color or dot or shape next to something else if I could not explain why.

So today, if you come to my home, you come to my space, everything from the moment I wake up, to what I see, to which book is by my bedside, to what quote is next to my work desk, everything is meticulously, intentionally planned out because he never allowed me space to just do something because it looked good.

And that is the biggest gift he’s given me because my life is so intentional and he gave me that. He was an art teacher. I didn’t know that at 11 to 18 when he was my teacher, but I look back and I know it now.

Perseverance Wins

MEL ROBBINS:

Oh, my God, you’re making me think of a teacher that I wish was still with us. He was my middle school and high school math teacher. I loved math. Mr. Core. Glen Core. He was a military guy, so he had a crew cut and he always wore those short sleeve collared shirts. And he had the protector and the glasses and the whole thing. And God did I love math.

And he would always call people up to solve problems on the chalkboard. And I can feel him handing the chalk to me. Right? And so you would solve the chalk things and then he’d coach you through it and then we’d talk about the problems.

But he had this thing that he would do where if somebody started to struggle or get frustrated or feel really stupid, he would turn to the class and say, “What do I always say?” And we would all recite back, “Perseverance wins.” And he would take his chalk and he would write in all caps, “PERSEVERANCE WINS.” And he would underline it and then we’d be like, “Exclamation, exclamation.”

And it’s true. It seeped into my pores. And I think more than anything else, that I, yes, planted seeds, but just kept going. That “perseverance wins” part of it, just don’t quit. That’s part of it. It’s just you’re always, if you open yourself up to learning, to experimenting, to all of the abundance that is available to you out there, eventually it comes.

JAY SHETTY:

I love that. I love that. And everyone should do that. Everyone should reach out to a teacher if they can. If that person’s still alive and just tell them, send them an email, drop them a Facebook message, DM or whatever access. Call the school if you have to. It will just create that energy in our life of gratitude and valuing people and appreciation. And it will come back. I promise. It will come back.

MEL ROBBINS:

You could share this episode, this conversation with people that you care about and tell them how much this conversation made you think of them and realize how much you love them. What a beautiful thing.

You know, another beautiful thing, Jay, is that I know that as you’re listening and as you’ve spent all this time together with Jay and I today, you’re thinking, “God, I wish I could meet Jay.” And you’re going on tour.

The On Purpose Tour

JAY SHETTY:

I am so excited.

MEL ROBBINS:

Tell me about it. What are you doing?

JAY SHETTY:

I never, ever. So I went on a world tour two years ago.

MEL ROBBINS:

But that was for a book.

JAY SHETTY:

But that was for a book, right? This is the first time ever that we’re taking the On Purpose podcast on tour. And I promise you the insights that we’re going to share, the wisdom that’s going to be shared on this tour has not been shared in any book, on any podcast. It’s so fresh.

And you’re going to get to see, the best part about it is you’re going to get to see me and my friends, people that I know deeply, on stage. Fifteen guests in 15 cities, different guests, just have a real conversation like this. And the best part for your audience is you have kindly agreed in the craziest schedule of all time to be my guest in Boston.

MEL ROBBINS:

That’s right.

JAY SHETTY:

Right now. Yeah.

MEL ROBBINS:

You better get tickets because they’re going to be gone. They’re probably already gone by the time you hear this.

JAY SHETTY:

Yeah, it’s amazing. So, jshetty.me/tour. We’re doing 15 cities across North America to start.

MEL ROBBINS:

You’re so excited about it. Why?

The Power of Collective Consciousness

JAY SHETTY:

I am. Because, Mel, you know, having this incredible podcast, there’s an intimacy that you have with your listeners because we know that everyone who’s listening right now listens every day, every week, all year round. The connection I feel to my On Purpose community is so deep because it’s all year round. It’s not the same as anything else. We’re in people’s ears every single day, every single week.

Now, imagine this person’s usually on a hike. All of you that are listening, you’re on a hike, you’re cooking, you’re in the car commuting to work, you’re maybe at work, you’re at the gym, you’re walking your dog. Now we get to be in the same place at the same time in person.

And on top of that, you’re now surrounded by people who do the same thing as you. So my favorite thing is not even just what we’re going to do on stage. It’s the fact that people are going to walk out there as friends. People are going to walk out there connected to people that they’ve maybe never met. I think people are going to walk out there with a future wife or husband or partner because that person is doing the same thing you’re doing.

The collective consciousness of a space like that is unheard of. There’s very few places that people gather today with the same exact intention in person. It used to be there. It doesn’t exist anymore.

You go to a coffee shop, everyone’s there for different reasons. Someone’s working, someone’s wasting some time. Someone’s starting the day, someone’s ending their day. There’s not a collective consciousness.

You go to an office. Some people are working from home, some people work from there. Some people are there to pay the bills. Some people are there because they’re excited. Different consciousness.

Everyone who listens to the Mel Robbins podcast or to On Purpose is committed to learning, listening, and growing and committed to health, happiness, and healing. The energy in that room, there’s no other place you can go to that feels that way. It doesn’t exist. It’s really, really special.

That’s why I’m so excited, because collective consciousness doesn’t work like that anymore.

The Third Space Theory

JAY SHETTY:

You know, in the past, there’s something beautiful that I’m writing about for my next book. It’s called the Third Space Theory. This idea that a few decades ago, we all had three spaces that we lived in. One was home, one was work, and one was church.

There was a place that you called home where you felt very safe and comfortable. There was a place that you called work, which was very productive and effective. And then there was a place that gave you the vision to reflect back on who you were at home and who you were at work and how you could be better.

Slowly, as time went on, that third space disappeared. So we had home and we had work. Because of the pandemic, work disappeared. So now we only have home.

So at home, we eat where we’re meant to sleep, we sleep where we’re meant to work, and we work where we’re meant to eat. The energy of home has become so complicated that we don’t know how to find a productive energy, how to find a connected energy, how to find a safe, calm energy. We’ve lost that.

Podcasts are the new third space. That’s where people are gathering. But what if we can turn that into a place, a physical space where you can gather, where people come to listen, learn to reflect back on their life, to want to be better, to support each other. And so there’s such a need for us to do these things.

And I’m so glad you’re going on tour. People can come and see you as well. It’s just, it’s so needed right now.

MEL ROBBINS:

I love how you just laid that out. It’s true. It’s like the three legs of the stool, two of them are gone. It’s why everybody’s so wobbly and trying to find their balance.

And, you know, I’m also excited because when you have these conversations, I always think about that I’m taking a walk with you as you’re listening. And that today we have invited my dear friend Jay Shetty on this metaphorical walk together on the road of life.

And, you know, I was curious, Jay, you’ve shared so much. You’ve poured into us with such just grace and wisdom. And, you know, I knew this was going to be extraordinary. I am just blown away by the impact that this will make in the person’s life who’s listening. The impact it’s made in my life, how it has truly brought us closer.

I’m so excited for all the things that you’re working on. If there was one thing that you want the person who’s listening to do, just one thing, the most important thing to really focus on coming out of just how generous you have been with all of us. What is the one thing today?

Life as a School, Hospital, Movie, or Mountain

JAY SHETTY: The one thing is, if you’re feeling stuck, I want you to ask yourself one question. Life can either be a school, a hospital, a movie, or a mountain.

Ask yourself, if life feels like a school right now, what do I need to learn? Because the same lessons will keep repeating until we learn them. If you’re feeling like you’re caught in a spiral of the same thing after the same thing, life is trying to teach you something. Go to the school of life.

Sometimes life feels like a hospital. There’s something to heal. If you feel in pain, if you feel held back, if you feel like you’re not strong enough yet to go out there and go after something, ask yourself, what do I need to heal and start healing?

Sometimes life feels like a movie. Everything’s kind of going in a great direction. Pause and ask yourself, what do I need to experience? Because this experience will also dissipate and disappear. Let me really experience it.

And finally, for those who are already on their path, life can feel like a mountain. Ask yourself, what do I need to climb? What skill do I need to learn to climb better?

You’re stuck because you haven’t figured out whether life is a school, a hospital, a movie, or a mountain. And as soon as you see the patterns, are you being questioned again and again to learn something? Are you being challenged again and again to learn something? Are you just feeling so much pain that you can’t even bear the burden to move forward? Then it’s all about healing.

Are you living at the top of the world, but time feels like it’s moving too fast? Immerse in that experience. And if you’re building right now, build that skill so you can climb higher and faster.

MEL ROBBINS: You know, as you’re listening, I want to point out something that just happened. You probably saw it if you’re watching on YouTube as Jay just shared that with you. What has been a wildly dreary and ugly day here in Boston shifted, and sunlight came streaming in and lit you up like a spotlight from above. Did you feel that?

JAY SHETTY: You know what? You’re more present than I am. I was so locked in, I didn’t feel it until you said it. And I looked over and I’m like, wow. Shows how present you are. That’s beautiful. I love that.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, I was hanging on every word, and I realized I’m in the movie, and I really want to be present and experience it. Jay Shetty, what are your parting words, my friend?

The Power of Genuine Relationships

JAY SHETTY: My parting words? I’m so grateful to you, Mel. You know, I’m so grateful to you because you’ve just done this for so many years and given your heart, and you are receiving everything that you deserve, everything that you’re getting. You deserve so deeply.

And it is so beautiful to witness your friends being honored and being adored and being loved, because there’s a sense that, I know we both always have that to shift the world, it’s going to take a lot of us. We’re going to have to work together.

And what I love about you is that you are always spotlighting your friends. You’re always showing up for your friends. You’re always supporting your friends behind the scenes and on camera. And I’m just so grateful that you made time for me today.

I always say to people, my public life is amazing, but my private life is better. And my private life is better because of people like you, because we get to have genuine relationships, sincere, deep, real relationships for years offline, and they support everything online.

If someone’s online life is better than their offline life, that’s a really hard place to live. And I’m so grateful that because of friends like you, I get to say the opposite.

MEL ROBBINS: Well, Jay, I think when things feel dark, the job in life is to glow. And you’ve definitely taught me how to do that. Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: I want to give you a big hug.

MEL ROBBINS: I want to give you a big hug, too. I love you.

JAY SHETTY: I love you, too.

MEL ROBBINS: Really, really love you.

You’re Already on the Path

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And thank you to all of you as well. All of you that are listening and watching right now, you’re already on the path. The fact that you’re listening to Mel, this is the path. You don’t have to start something new. You don’t have to suddenly figure it out. You are figuring it out. That’s why you’re here.

So please feel encouraged and fueled and connected, knowing that you’ve already committed. You’re already showing up for yourself. You’ve already invested in yourself. The fact that you’re here proves that you’re already living the world that you want to live in.

So don’t feel like you’ve got to start something, figure it out, that you’re stuck. You’re already not stuck. You’re already moving. If you were stuck, you wouldn’t be here. See that as building momentum and keep showing up.

MEL ROBBINS: Jay, thank you. Thank you, thank you. I also want to thank you for listening and watching all the way to the end. And what I’m really excited about is I agree with you, Jay, that you’re already moving in the right direction.

And everything that Jay poured into you and into me today, as the sun is even getting brighter in here in our studios in Boston, is how you turn on that switch and you actually tap into not only the light that’s inside you, but you also—we talked a lot about receiving. That is a skill that I had to learn.

And when you focus on noticing what’s around you and allowing it in, you will feel more loved. You will feel better. I just so believe that. And I wanted to tell you, in case no one else does, that I love you and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life.

And there is no doubt in my mind that based on everything that Jay just poured into you, you actually will. Alrighty. I’ll see you in a few days. I’ll be waiting to welcome you in to the very next episode. The moment you hit play, I’ll see you there. You’re definitely going to love this one, and I’m going to be waiting to welcome you into it the moment you hit play. I’ll see you there.

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