Milo Yiannopoulos on Tucker Carlson Show (Transcript)

And of course, it’s being asked by an East African with kind of a quaint, semi-colonial accent. Conservatives can laugh at it. Liberals can laugh at it. Really, this is the kind of the only way a white liberal in the United States could ever laugh at a black person—if it’s an African expressing non-PC views on homosexuality. “Why are you gay?”

And, of course, people in the West laugh because the guy’s an idiot. “Why are you gay?” We all know why you’re gay. “Why are you gay?” Actually, we’re laughing in part because we’re not allowed to ask that question.

The Forbidden Question

It’s settled, though no one’s really explained what about it is settled. If you were to ask the average American, “Why are people gay?” they would probably say, “Well, they’re born that way.” And then if you follow it up with, “Well, how exactly does that work?” they would have no idea and would tell you to shut up.

Because, again, like so many myths or things that we think we know, we don’t really know. We can’t really explain it, but we do know for dead certain we’re not allowed to talk about it. So when some African morning show host in Uganda, wherever the hell that is, asks it out loud, we can’t help but laugh nervously. “Why are you gay?”

If you watch the whole interview, and actually it’s worth watching because it’s really revealing both about Uganda and about the West, the first thing you notice is how polite everybody is. That tone, “Why are you gay?” continued throughout the entire interview, which lasted over an hour. Just watched it.

And the morning show host, whether you like him or dislike him, was just unfailingly polite to the guest who was herself also unfailingly polite, and they were just sort of talking past each other. The trans activist couldn’t really explain why he or she was gay or whether gay was different from trans or what was good about being gay. That was another question the host asked. “Why would you want to be gay?” And the trans activist just didn’t really have an answer.

What was amazing was the sweetness of it. It was not a hate crime. Was not even approaching a hate crime. No conversation like that could take place in the United States. But the host was coming from a position of total certainty that this is just weird and wrong. And that is the consensus in a lot of the world, and it’s certainly famously the consensus in Uganda.

Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Law

And the consensus in the United States across both parties and pretty much the whole educated population is they’re horrible because they think homosexuality is wrong. And we know this because about ten years later in Uganda, the legislature passed almost unanimously with only, I think, one dissenting vote, a law against something called “aggravated homosexuality.”

Aggravated homosexuality as of 2023 is a death penalty offense in Uganda. What? Aggravated homosexuality? A death penalty offense? That’s medieval.

But how is it defined in Uganda? Well, if you read it, and you can because it’s online, the Ugandan government defines aggravated homosexuality as gay rape of children, gay rape of the elderly who can’t consent, people over seventy-five, gay rape of people who are mentally deficient, and the intentional transmission of deadly diseases to another person.

So it’s rape and murder effectively are against the law. In fact, capital crimes in Uganda. It’s a little different than advertised, but you would never know it because the entire American political class erupted as one when this law passed in East Africa thousands of miles away with a non-relevant trading partner with no real military. In other words, there’s no actual reason to care about what Uganda does, but everyone here did care bipartisanly.

The Western Response

And we’re actually not going to expect you to take our word for it. We’re going to go right to the CIA for the answer, meaning Wikipedia. This is the Wikipedia description of the response. President Joe Biden weighed in. This was two years ago. This is 2023.

President Joe Biden condemned the law, calling it, quote, “a tragic violation of universal human rights” and, quote, “the latest development in an alarming trend of human rights abuses and corruption in Uganda.” Corruption. So here, the Ugandans had the temerity to exercise a democratic process using a legislature elected by the people of Uganda to pass a law almost unanimously with one dissenting vote, and that’s corruption.

It’s almost as corrupt as the anti-gay marriage initiative in California that voters passed, but judges wisely struck down in the name of democracy. Okay. So that was Biden’s response. But it wasn’t just Biden. Here’s Senator Ted Cruz, the self-described conservative from Texas. Here’s what he said. He tweeted this. He put this in writing as he so often does.

And we’re quoting, “Any law criminalizing homosexuality or imposing the death penalty for ‘aggravated homosexuality’ is grotesque and an abomination. All civilized nations should join together in condemning this human rights abuse.”

So it’s uncivilized to penalize gay rape or the intentional transmission of a deadly disease. That’s uncivilized. Seems kind of civilized. But at the time, nobody agreed. This was grotesque, the kind of thing that only Africans would do. It’s one step up from cannibalism. Could you believe it? Penalizing gay rape and the intentional transmission of AIDS. What will they think of next? We’ll throw you in a stew pot, savages.

You’ll notice that Uncle Ted called it an abomination, and the Anglican communion agreed. Here’s Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the leader of the rapidly dying Anglican communion, which would include the Episcopal Church of the United States, the state church of England. He wrote to the Archbishop of Uganda, Christian brother to Christian brother, to express his, quote, “grief and dismay” at the Church of Uganda’s support for the anti-homosexuality act.

The head of the Church of England was filled with grief at the thought that rape would be banned and the intentional transmission of AIDS, etcetera, etcetera.

Economic Punishment

But it didn’t stop with expressions of grief and condemnation and tweets from Ted Cruz. No. It got right to the hard stuff, to the things that matter, meaning money and foreign aid. Here’s the World Bank. Immediately, the World Bank swings into action. The World Bank announced it would halt lending to Uganda in response to the new law. No more lending. No more money for you. We’re cutting you off.

The financial institution noted that the act, quote, “fundamentally contradicts the World Bank Group’s values.” Oh, what are the World Bank’s values? That’d be interesting to know. You know, in the same country, contradicting the World Bank’s, quote, “values” would be a sign of virtue, probably. Probably get a merit badge for that, but the World Bank was outraged. They know sin when they see it. Banning gay rape? We’ll tolerate a lot, but not that.

And then finally, Joe Biden, in October of 2023, spun fully into a frenzy at this point, taking the lead of the World Bank, announced that Uganda would be expelled from the group of sub-Saharan African countries that benefit from tax breaks under the US African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA, because of the country’s, quote, “gross violations of internationally recognized human rights,” which violate the AGOA eligibility criteria.

So that was 2023. So bottom line, no more money for you. What happened next? Well, Ugandans starved. Next year, there was a famine. I mean, not to laugh at famine, but it’s almost unbelievable. So you ban gay rape of children and the elderly and the mentally disabled, and we’re going to starve you out. And, boy, did they.

The United States shut it down. International aid institutions followed suit. And the next year, Uganda had a famine that is still ongoing. Fifty percent of children in Uganda today suffer the symptoms of malnutrition, stunted growth, anemia. Fifty percent. Half of all Ugandan kids are starving.

And, of course, Uganda’s never been a rich country. It’s had a lot of turmoil. Idi Amin was from there. Uganda has some problems for sure. But the year after the West collectively withdrew aid from Uganda, billions in aid, they have a famine, and it’s all because they banned gay rape of children.

Western Values on Display

Okay. So I guess the point here is our values are pretty clear. We’re for this, and we’re totally against questioning it. And if you do, we will hurt you. So what is that? “Why are you gay?” Maybe that’s a question worth asking. But of course, nobody has.

And then you wake up one morning and you realize that supporting homosexuality, which is very different from not hating gays—no one should hate gays, and most Americans don’t hate gays. In fact, I don’t know if I’ve ever met an American who did hate gays. I don’t know if I ever have, at least in the past thirty years. No one hates gays. You know a million gays, and some of them are awesome people. Work for you or your friends or whatever. It’s not about hating gays.

It’s about being forced to say this is an affirmative good. And if you disagree with that, then you are affirmatively bad, and we’re going to stoke a famine in your country to punish you. That’s literally where we are. And some of us should have been paying closer attention as this movement never formally declared, not the gay rights movement, but the terror against anyone who opposes gay rights, whatever those are, worshiping homosexuality. We should pay closer attention.

Biden’s Defining Moment

I’m going to refer you to one of the great clips of the entire Biden administration. When people look back at the Biden administration, there’ll be, of course, an endless loop of him falling off his bike or identifying his sister as his wife or clips designed to show how confused and senile this poor guy was. And those will, in a lot of ways, represent the administration, but it’s the moment of clarity, those occasional moments of clarity where Biden was really saying something on purpose because he meant it, and he wanted to tell you what was important.

Those are the clips that actually define the four disastrous years of Joe Biden. And above all, I would argue this clip tells you everything you need to know about the values of the US government, of our popular culture, of the West collectively. And once we understand the values, we can assess, are those the right values, and can a civilization continue with those values? But first, the clip.

Here’s Joe Biden describing a trip to downtown Wilmington, Delaware with his dad in 1962.

“I remember getting out of a car when I was trying to be dropped off at the local city hall to get a job to be the only white employee in the east side of town in the neighborhood, in the projects as a lifeguard. My dad was dropping me off so I could—he’d go around the block and run and get the application. And two well-dressed men kissed one another as I was opening the door, and I hadn’t seen that before. And I turned around, and one walked off to the DuPont building. One walked off to what used to be called the Hercules Corporation. And I looked at my dad, and he just looked at me and said, ‘It’s simple, honey. They love each other. It’s just basic. There’s nothing complicated about it.’ That’s how I was raised for real.”

It’s like, it’s the greatest clip ever. And there’s just so much. I mean, you could really spend all day getting Talmudic on it, just dissecting it and trying to figure out what it means. I mean, there’s so many parts to this. First of all, Biden’s dad called him honey. That’s weird. What dad calls his boy honey? Honey? Strange. And who knows what it means? I’m not implying anything, but it’s weird.

# The Pursuit to Serve and America’s Changing Values

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But the main thing to notice is this is 1962 that this supposedly happened in downtown Wilmington, Delaware. And in 1962, what was the state of America’s views about homosexuality?

Not an individual gaze. This has always been a very, very tolerant country for all minority groups actually by any global standard. But the country’s official views on, like, gay sex, for example. Well, it was a felony in forty-nine states in the summer of 1962. The only state in which it was legal, Illinois, had just legalized it several months before.

So having gay sex in the United States when Biden claims this happened was a felony pretty much everywhere. A felony. Very few people ever went to jail for it because no one was really interested in enforcing it, but the laws of the United States mirrored those of pretty much every country in the world from then going back maybe to Athens.

Like, people have always been against this. It’s always been officially discouraged by every single society. The question is why. That’s worth a conversation at some point. Probably not just random bigotry. If every society that we know about ever has had an official policy against gay sex or forms of gay sex, why? Again, can you explain it to me without getting hysterical?

Maybe there’s a reason there. Who knows? But that was a state in the United States in the summer of 1962.

Biden’s Fabricated Memory

So the idea that Joe Biden’s drunk used car salesman dad turned to him, this brutish Irish guy who Biden has described many times and says, “Honey, honey, it’s just love. It’s okay. It’s just love. Two guys making out outside the DuPont building in downtown Wilmington. Totally normal.”

It’s so transparently absurd. It’s such an obvious attempt to graft modern values onto an antique setting that is so clearly fake that amazingly no one laughed, but no one did laugh because no one was allowed to laugh. But that’s absurd. Ask anyone who was alive in 1962. Just use common sense. That didn’t happen.

But notice how Biden frames it. He said he was getting dropped off to get a job as the only white man working in the hood, breaking the color barrier. It wasn’t just a summer job. It was a victory for civil rights, and he was the kind of guy who would do that because his family had a long commitment to civil rights as evidenced by his father’s kind of casual acceptance of homosexuality. “It’s just love. It’s just love.”

Okay. So what do we learn from that? Well, we learned that Biden’s, of course, a fabulous. We knew that. But in this specific clip, he’s lying for a reason to transmit to the nation its essential values. And at the very top of that list is we are for homosexuality. That’s number one. It’s right there with civil rights. People get to vote. People get to have gay sex. That’s America. That’s our culture.

The Dramatic Rise in Non-Heterosexual Identification

Okay. So it probably shouldn’t surprise you that the self-reported incidents of homosexuality and its many varieties in the United States rose dramatically during that period. And here are roughly the numbers.

So about a little over ten years ago, 2012, among young people in the United States, about six percent said, “Yeah, I’m not heterosexual.” So that would be in the range that we’ve been told for many years was natural, right? Maybe ten percent, a little under ten percent if people say they’re not heterosexual and whatever, you know, gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, whatever, but they’re not one man, one woman monogamy people at all. So that was the number a little over ten years ago.

Last year, the number among young people was over twenty percent. So a little more than a decade, you have a threefold increase, three hundred percent increase in self-identified non-heterosexual orientation in a little over ten years.

What are we looking at? Well, we’re looking at demographic collapse among other things. Right? But what is the phenomena actually? Where does this come from? Or to put it in Ugandan terms, “Why are you gay?”

The “Born This Way” Narrative

Well, let’s see. We have been told for the course of my life that you’re born gay. It’s like handedness or eye color or height. It’s just something that you’re born with. God created you that way. You are unique. Your iris, your fingerprints, your sexuality, they’re all unique to you, and that’s something not to be embarrassed of unless you’re a white man, in which case, of course, slink away in shame, be denied admission to college or a job.

But for everyone else, your immutable characteristics are something that you celebrate, that you should be proud of. They’re not something that you chose. They’re not something you can change. And this is the story that all of us have been told, and most of us, me included, sort of, kind of believe that.

Okay. And if that’s true, of course, you could never ever show bias against someone on the basis of his immutable characteristics because that’s wrong. It’s also unchristian, and that is true. It is unchristian to attack someone on the basis of something with which he was born, of course.

Really, no one has put this in clearer terms than the former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, the former transportation secretary, and as of today, the leading candidate for the Democratic nomination in 2028, mister Pete Buttigieg. Here he is:

“I can tell you that if me being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade. And that’s the thing I wish the Mike Pences of the world would understand, that if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator. Take it up with God. He made me this way.”

Notice the self-seriousness. This sort of JFK-esque gaze into the distance. “Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator,” old drama queen. Yeah. Maybe. Okay.

The Pete Buttigieg Question

But that doesn’t really answer the question. Why was Pete Buttigieg dating chicks for the first part of his adult life? By his own admission, he was dating women, like a bunch of women. He was openly heterosexual, including in the US military after the repeal of don’t ask, don’t tell. So it’s totally legal to be gay in the military, but Pete was still heterosexual.

So the answer I think most people come to is, well, he was just ashamed of being gay. Like, he couldn’t be his true self. He couldn’t kind of let it out. Maybe that’s true, though. Those of us who were living in the United States ten years ago remember that there was no sanction against being gay. Tons of gay television’s filled with gay people. Those of us who worked in television around gay people, great gay people, actually, just being clear. Really nice, good people all day long.

Wasn’t it weird about being gay ten years ago, fifteen years ago when Pete Buttigieg was like, “I couldn’t come to terms with my own sexuality because his parents are so oppressive”? No. They were actually lifestyle liberals. They’re big left-wingers, his parents. So probably unlikely that his parents were like, “Don’t be gay, son.”

It’s a completely fair question. You were dating chicks not that long ago, a bunch of them, and all of a sudden you’re getting all self-serious about how God made you this way. Explain how that works. It’s a totally fair question, especially since Pete Buttigieg’s whole identity is wrapped up in being gay. His whole identity.

Buttigieg’s Career and Identity Politics

It’s not like Pete Buttigieg is running for president because he’s had such an incredible career as a public servant. He fixed South Bend, Indiana. He’s just a really good mayor. Nobody thinks that. Ask anybody in South Bend. He was just a really good driver in the US military who’s an awesome transportation secretary. He was a joke as a transportation secretary.

Did air travel get better under Pete Buttigieg? Did the roads get fixed? Did anything improve in American transportation during Pete Buttigieg’s tenure as transportation secretary? No. He wasn’t just lame. He was awful. And in case you don’t remember, here’s his signature achievement as secretary of transportation: identifying racist roads.

“And the interstate system, the interstate system was built to keep certain groups in and certain groups out. So it was built on a racist system, correct?”

“Yeah. Often, this wasn’t just an act of neglect. Often, this was a conscious choice. There was racism physically built into some of our highways.”

“There was racism built into the highways.”

There was rebar and a concrete substrate, and of course, gravel and then asphalt poured over the top, but mixed in there, probably in a drum at some point, was actual white racism. It was mixed into the roads, and that’s why people just had to tear them up. That’s it. That’s a real clip. That’s not AI, as you may remember. Like, that’s insane.

That was his tenure as secretary of transportation, not being mean to him, and it’s, like, not even worth dredging that up again, except to make the point that being gay isn’t just this thing about Pete Buttigieg. It’s the whole point of Pete Buttigieg. It is the reason that he has the plurality of support from Democratic primary voters who are not Black.

His support among black voters, they’re more in the, “Why are you gay?” camp. They’re not oppressed at all. In fact, I’m trying to do the math here. I think his support, Pete Buttigieg’s current support among African American Democratic primary voters is, let’s see, around zero. So zero percent in that range, meaning nobody, like no black people. They’re not going for it. “Why are you gay?” You can almost hear them saying that.

But among white liberals, Pete Buttigieg’s gayness, the fact he’s married to a dude called Chasten and has somehow acquired babies somehow. How do you get babies? Just sort of buy them somewhere? Whatever. He has these babies. And he is the model of whatever, a modern gay man. That’s the whole point. He is a civil rights hero because of who he sleeps with. Pretty amazing.

The Political Rewards of Coming Out

So two obvious points to make about that. First, do you remember when they used to tell us “We don’t care what happens in your bedroom”? Do you remember that? “We want to keep politics out of the bedroom. We want to keep politicians out of your bedroom.” This was a way to justify the holocaust of abortion, of course, but the lines sounded kind of appealing. Yeah. Politicians probably stayed in my bedroom. That seems fair.

Now your bedroom is the whole point. You got politicians running on what they do in their bedroom and on the Democratic side succeeding.

So that leads very obviously to the second point, which is there are a lot of rewards in store for someone in the Democratic Party, an ambitious politician, someone who really only cares about the goal, which in Pete Buttigieg’s case has always been becoming president. Is it bad to come out of the closet and announce that you’re gay? No. No. No. That’s, like, the only way you’re going to get to the White House. That’s the only way. That’s your ticket, being, quote, “gay.”

So given that that’s obviously true and given that this guy dated girls as an adult, it’s totally fair to ask the question, “Why are you gay?” Like, what is this?

Questioning the Genetic Theory

Starting to think that maybe it’s not genetic or entirely genetic. And if it is, show me the gene. We’ve decoded the human genome. We can tell you where the gene for eye color comes from. Where’s the gay gene? Maybe there is a gay gene, by the way. Lots of things we haven’t decoded yet. Maybe it’s there. Are you looking for it? Are you trying to answer this question? No.

The whole game is to make you be quiet, ashamed, because there’s something to do with sex. And what are you, a creep focused on sex? You’re obsessed with gay sex. Sort of a variety. You’re obsessed with Israel. No. Actually not. But you’re way up in my face about it.

And so I think it’s fair to ask you a couple of very simple, straightforward questions, foundational questions like, what is this? Where does it come from? Why is it good? Why is being gay better than not being gay?

And if it’s not a hundred percent genetic, clearly isn’t. Instead of three hundred percent increase in ten years, probably not genetic unless our genetics are changing at lightning speed, unless evolution is a much faster process than Darwin ever reckoned, if it’s not entirely genetic, then what are the other factors?

And since apart from moral concerns or the concerns of human happiness, does this actually make you happy, and what does it mean to live as a gay person in the United States?

The Reality Behind Homosexuality

What exactly does that look like? Like, what’s your life like? How many people do you have sex with? How are those unfair questions since you’re the one throwing it in my face and telling me I’m not allowed to be against it? Maybe I’m allowed to ask the questions I don’t really want to ask, don’t really want to know the answers to.

But since you’ve made it the north star of our moral system in the United States, since you’re willing to starve an African country because they disagree with it, maybe it’s time for me to ask those questions because you pushed me to. On this and a lot of other issues, if you just back off a little bit, we could just return to the status quo of, say, 1985 where, yeah, they’re gay people. They’re great. They’re off, you know, whatever. They’re here.

They’re there. Whatever. But they’re not pushing gay sex on my kids in school. That’s clearly not a good idea. Tell me why it is a good idea.

And, of course, it’s a crime to intentionally infect someone with an infectious disease. And, of course, it’s in fact the hallmark of civilization to make rape illegal, gay or straight. What? But since you blew up all those previous assumptions and now made them illegal, Uganda, you know, made this crime punishable by death. You made their law punishable by famine.

So who’s more serious about it? You are. Since you did all of that, how about we just slowly, in a nonhysterical, obviously non-hateful way, ask, what are we looking at? Why are you gay? Why is that a good thing?

What is it exactly? And there are lot of people we could ask about this, but we thought, believe it or not, the most articulate person we know to answer these questions is Milo Yiannopoulos, who was very famous ten years ago as a, what was he called, conservative provocateur, running around the country and making the case against liberals as an open, in fact, flamboyant gay man, and that was part of the shtick. Right? It’s like, we’ve got a gay guy too. What are you going to say now?

You know, we’ve got black conservatives too. You can’t call us racist. We’ve got a gay conservative. You can’t call us homophobes. And so Milo was unleashed on the world.

And then in literally one day, he was canceled, really destroyed as a person in a sort of non-scandal that, like so many of that period and of this period, took him right off the stage. You never heard from him again. But during the period when he was floating around America on his dangerous fot tour, spreading whatever it was, libertarian economics or something to the kids, it became obvious that this guy was actually really smart. You know? Even for those of us who were never that interested in the dangerous fot part of it, if you listen, you thought, well, this guy’s not dumb at all.

He’s actually very thoughtful. Very thoughtful, high IQ guy who thinks about things. So over the last couple of years during text conversations, I became aware that Milo had decided that he didn’t want to be gay anymore. I thought that was kind of interesting. I didn’t know you could decide you didn’t want to be gay, and then you read about it, and it turns out there’s a whole industry, movement, and laws designed to prevent you from deciding not to be gay.

And parts of the states have banned conversion therapies. You’re not allowed to talk to a psychiatrist about not having same sex attraction. Wow. What is that? It’s like once you’re in, you can’t get out.

And so it seemed worth the sit down conversation with Milo Yiannopoulos. Ask him sincere questions like, what is this? Why did you decide to change? What’s it like changing? What does it mean to be gay in the United States specifically? And so that conversation follows, and we hope you enjoy it.

The Interview Begins

TUCKER CARLSON: You’re really nice to do this. I’m glad you came. I want to begin with—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Any person will have me on. I’m joking, I’m joking.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, I’m actually really interested. I’m interested in this topic. I’ve never been interested in it, but I want to begin by asking you—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Icky, isn’t it? It’s icky.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, sort of impersonal, but, you know, it’s occurred to me, particularly when I have interviewed Republican politicians, particularly neocons over the years—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Sexuality comes up, comes to my—

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve always wanted to say in a Ugandan accent, are you gay?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Why are you gay?

TUCKER CARLSON: So let me ask, are you gay? Were you gay? Like, what is gay?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Nobody’s gay. Nobody’s gay. After that clip, which is the best thing on the Internet, he changes the question, the interrogative to a declarative. He says, “Why are you gay?” And she starts, you know, it starts talking. He says, “You are gay.”

It becomes a statement. And this is where he goes. This is where he loses me. Because nobody is gay.

We’ve been encouraged to think of this. It’s an icky subject. Like straight men don’t want to think about it.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, no, it’s okay. I mean, it’s reached—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But you invited me.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I invited you because I have not, you know, not wanted to be engaged with the topic at all. I don’t have strong, super strong personal feelings about it. But all of a sudden it has become like a defining fact of the west, that we have a huge gay population. Like, what does that—

The “Born This Way” Myth

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: To talk about giving aid with, with, you know, the, with, with strings attached. So I was, I’ve told you. What metaphor am I reaching for? Strings attached.

Yes, you can, but only if you have a gay pride festival.

TUCKER CARLSON: Great.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: What is that exactly?

TUCKER CARLSON: What is that?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yes, it has been. And all these things. And with the, with the collapse in people identifying as trans, you’re beginning to now see what some of us have always known about homosexuality, which is that this is a product. I mean, there are some people, obviously, who were probably always going to be gay. Tammy Bruce, but, you know, like, maybe she might be the only real lesbian. She might be the only real lesbian. I believe when Tammy Bruce tells me that she was only ever into women, I believe her, you know, and I—

TUCKER CARLSON: Like her, by the way.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I think she’s great. But she’s like the only real lesbian with gay men, which is completely different. We see the, we see the numbers go up, the numbers go down. This is not without some change in environmental factors. This doesn’t make sense. If we believe the old lie, “born this way.” If we believe what was in fact invented in the 1980s as a public relations strategy, “Born this way.” So what happened back in the days.

Gays were in the 80s, and with AIDS and all the rest of it, wanting to be out and proud and to wear their sins on their sleeves. And somebody came up with this, this idea which, which caught on and worked. It was twofold. One is, what if we say that being gay is like being black or being a woman? Yes. Then they’re a bigot. We’re not weird. And so it takes the religious, the Moral Majority’s “sinful lifestyle choice” argument, and it screws them because now they’re saying, like, you’re wrong to be a girl or you’re wrong to be boy.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It was invented. It was invented wholesale by the activists in the 1980s. And the second part of it was, and this is in a book called “After the Ball,” which is kind of defined how gay activists were going to—

It was very influential because it was really the book that told gay activists how to get this revolting sin that most people don’t even want to think about up front and center, family friendly, and ultimately to the state where we let them adopt children, which is a whole thing we’ll get into. And that was, “Don’t talk about bodily functions. Don’t talk about effluvia. Just talk about love. Just talk about love. Talk about it in terms of love. Like, love is love. Love wins.” And we see this to the present day. Never talk about, you know, the stains on the sheets, the promiscuity, the drugs, the glory holes in Berlin nightclubs. Never talk about any of those things because those things will repel women. And you need moms with gay sons to affirm their homosexuality. And so what is that homosexuality? Long answer for a short question.

TUCKER CARLSON: I understand.

Homosexuality as Trauma Response

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: In almost every case, and certainly in every male case, it is a trauma response. It is not a sexuality. It is not part of what you are or who you are or a component of your personality or a function of. It is a set of behaviors that is, that emerges in people with a number of very easily identifiable common etiologies. One of them is, well, so for instance, among gay, excuse me, among black and Jewish Americans, they report statistically significantly higher rates of homosexuality. Why could that be? Overbearing moms and absent dads? Or in the Jewish case, nebbish fathers and, you know, you know, like Jewish, my Jewish friends, I always call their marriages are like lion taming. You know, where you have a sort of nebbish, scholarly, bookish dad and a larger than life mom who, you know, once one day decides she’s going to be a rabbi. But you know.

That, or in the black community, of course, it’s the fatherlessness and it’s why, why if we’re born this way, if you don’t have some other better explanation, could it be the case that there are more gays among black and Jewish populations? Well, something’s going on here. Why are we getting more trans and more gays and then less gays?

TUCKER CARLSON: Why?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Because this is in fact a symptom. In fact, this is a product of something. It’s the result of something.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, this was Freud’s position, which was kind of conventional wisdom for the better part of a hundred years, that this was a response to the environment and particularly to the relationship with the mother that a young boy has and a relationship with his father. I mean, this was, this was like people just assumed that was true when I was a kid. They were not gay haters or homophobes. That just, that was a state of knowledge on the subject.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: One of, one of the only things Freud got right was that. And it’s funny that, you know, the way that that’s actually in line with Catholic church teaching. And now it’s become, now you see, the, the terminology in the medical industry has begun to change as well because, you know, they now gay people are sort of saturated everywhere. You know, like when you get it, it’s kind of like America. You get a whole country full of people who are very similar, but all think they’re really, really individual.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s deep. Yes, I do know what that looks like.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And you know, sort of America is a very f*otized country in all kinds of ways. That’s the technical term.

If you want to know the truth about homosexuality, you’ve got to go to black YouTube and listen to the girls.

TUCKER CARLSON: How do you get to black YouTube, by the way?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, you know, it’s a sort of tumbling. It’s a tumbling kind of thing. You find one good video by somebody who’s like Steph Curry, you’re pack attached.

Sorry. And then, you know, you’ll tumble through the algorithm. I’ll send you some links, I’ll post some links on my Twitter and you’ll—

The Honest Truth About Homosexuality

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know if I dare. But you’re saying that’s the more honest YouTube.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s the only honest YouTube. It’s the only honest anything. Because you go past the churches and you’ll see, you know, “the white homo demon stealing your man.”

And it’s not the pastor who comes up with this stuff. It’s his wife. It’s his wife who’s got this, you know, who was trying to set her girlfriend up with somebody. And that was all great, but he went off with a dude, which is, you know, like, even which is sort of equidistant for them from going off with a white girl or whatever. But no, the only honest place where people would just be like, “did it, f.” You know, and then they’ll go.

TUCKER CARLSON: Amazing LeBron f*.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And they’ll go through it all. I mean, for me, the ne plus ultra of this genre would be Black China’s mum. Do you know who that is? No, of course you don’t. You remind me of a line from Blackadder sometimes, you know, because you have this sort of like, lovely, kind of like, ingenue kind of thing that you do, and it’s like, “Well, no, I’m just, I don’t know anything.” But do you remember that line from Blackadder? Like a slumbering ultra who claim never to have heard of the Beatles?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, but I get it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: He’s talking about high court judges.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve never actually heard of Blackadder before, so I…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You’re kidding.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m actually not.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: What? I don’t even know what you’re talking about.

TUCKER CARLSON: But that’s okay. It’s not about me. I’m just trying to say Stephen Fry.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And Rowan Atkinson got famous. How do you know about black?

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I don’t know. There are huge gaps. I’m not a knowledgeable man.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Jesus and the orphans. Well, you say this. Yes, but anyway, so Tokyo Tony is her name and she’s… Anyway, you can Google Tokyo Tony. That’s your into black everything. Anyway, she’s great. There’s a whole… I mean, YouTube now. The only interesting bits of YouTube that still get views are, like, these black shows. They’re like these massively overproduced shows with these incredibly elaborate sets, and they’ve got like, you know, 43 people live watching, but the archives and the clips, like, go crazy. Anyway.

TUCKER CARLSON: Man, I’ve got a series of delights ahead of me.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, you don’t have many black people on the show, so you’ve got me instead.

I’ll be your African American contingent. I’ll introduce you to these things. So, no I’m kidding.

Resistance to Propaganda

TUCKER CARLSON: So you’re describing a world into which a lot of conventional propaganda has not yet filtered or they’re resistant to it or something.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, it’s interesting because…

TUCKER CARLSON: Why?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Are you gay? Are you gay?

The origin of “born this way” I’ve just described, I’ve just explained.

The reality is that these communities who experience this problem a lot, right, the black community, particularly because of fatherlessness, a lot of gay black kids, there’s just a lot of them have this very blunt and truthful… I mean, look, looking at me now, it’s impossible to imagine that I used to be a homosexual, but it hadn’t entered my mind. No, but I knew you.

TUCKER CARLSON: During your flaming stage, so I had heard.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, but like flaming young black men in America today especially. And this is a problem this community is dealing with. And they don’t, you know, black America is like commendably impervious to a lot of the woke PC language stuff, you know, like very creditably skeptical of vaccines. Yes. They won’t go along with a lot of this stuff, like, you know, the proposition whatever in California, gay marriage. Why it’s black women who are like holding on the fort.

So I love Candace Owens so much. You know, the ungovernability of black women is the only thing that might possibly save America, you know, as embodied in our friend Candice, who is just like, you know, she’s ungovernable in the best possible way.

TUCKER CARLSON: She’s not going along with it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: She isn’t, to put it mildly, fair. She is not going along with it. And Candace is a very beautiful, polished, you know, intelligent and sort of microcosm of a trend that you see everywhere in black America now, which is like, “ain’t doing that. Ain’t doing that. Definitely ain’t doing that.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Wow.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And it’s very interesting. So they will be very resistant to this stuff. They kind of intuit what white people, I think, have forgotten because, you know, we’re just all sort of like bombs of weak and demoralized and like kind of overburdened with this nonsense.

The First Fake News Campaign

The truth is that homosexuality and in particular conversion therapy is the first thing upon which the liberals tried what they later did to Trump, which is to system this wall of fake news, misinformation, propaganda. It’s the first time. I mean, there’s other examples around wars and things like that, but when it comes to social issues, it’s the first time. I think the press just says, “oh, hell no,” except they didn’t do that. Because they’re white. But, you know, they said, sometimes I lose the characters, get confused. Got to put Rwanda away. No.

The first time that the media decides this is a social issue we care about enough because we don’t lose our gay friends, that we’re going to just lie and demonize and give the full fake news treatment that we later saw in its most sophisticated form, leveraged, praise God, unsuccessfully, against Trump again and again and again.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So they start off with this, you know, “you were born this way, honey. You are born this way, honey. You are beautiful, whatever you are.” No, you’re like that cause you got raped by a priest. Or you’re like that because your mother, mom was overbearing and your dad wasn’t around. Or you’re like that because you failed…

TUCKER CARLSON: To form.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: A platonic stable attachments to other men as a child for some reason. Maybe you didn’t have a good male role model or whatever. But there is a relatively small number of identifiable and repeated etiologies that mark somebody out as being, you know, vulnerable to this.

And you look into the histories of gay, but they’ll all deny it. They’re like, “no, that’s just me.” But it’s not. And they know. They know because I knew and they know. And I talked to them privately. When there’s no cameras, they could squeeze it out. And eventually that you get there. Yes, there’s something about their sexual activity they know isn’t right.

And it’s not just the tech in the technical sense, that the sex is sterile and therefore can never be part of the holy sacrament of marriage. Because it can’t be co-procreation with God, right? Yes. Co-procreation with God. Meaning, you know, you make a physical body with your wife, but then God puts a soul in. And that’s why it’s the most precious sacrament, because you do the others, you do your confirmation, all the rest of it. But it’s leading up to you getting to make something with God, which is the real reason that Lucifer is so mad, because the angels can’t do that. The angels don’t get to participate in creation with our Lord. Every single human being does.

TUCKER CARLSON: And you feel that too when you have kids, even if you don’t know what it is, you feel there’s something supernatural going on here.

Fatherhood and Responsibility

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: This is going to sound completely pathetic, but I have some kind of pathetic simulacrum of it now. I’ve become a cat dad just in the terms of caring for something helpless. And it’s bringing out of me, something that I know is going to lead to fatherhood because I’m responsible for this being that loves and laughs and they do.

And requires regular, not just maintenance, but affection and to be tended to and love like I love dogs. I used to be more of a dog guy, but I live in a house on the national register of Historic Places, so I can’t have dogs. And I, so I just, I got a cat one day, you know, just because, just because somebody found it in an engine. I was like, “I’m so alone.” I said, “sure, I’ll give you the, give it, give it, give me, give it a damn kitten.”

And at that point, I wasn’t sure I was going to drown it, wear it, or nurture it, but I was just like, “oh, okay.” And being responsible for shaping the personality, which anybody who has animals, who loves animals knows that is 100% real responsible for shaping the personality, nurturing that, being into either being a parent itself or just into being a companion or to being the best that it can be. Right.

It’s bringing something out in me, you know, that wasn’t present when I was having a lot of what most people would regard as, well, what homosexuals would regard as very desirable kind of sex, you know, with a particular kind of person or whatever. So this, you get to the base of it and you get to the heart of it. If you’re sort of one on one with the gay. But they will, they won’t just talk about the emptiness of their life or the fact that the sex is sterile or whatever. They will know that there’s something not quite right and so.

TUCKER CARLSON: And that its origin. That is there at something that was not quite right.

Addiction and Compulsion

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Have you ever been addicted to anything?

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Big time.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So, you know, there’s that moment when your mind is flooded and it’s all you can think about.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s all that you can. You gotta get it out. Because if you don’t do a line or have a smoke or do something, if you don’t, if you don’t get it out, it’s just going to be all that you can think about the rest of the day. It’s just driving you crazy because it floods your mind. Yeah, I’ve been addicted to one or two little things.

And I realized my sex works the same way.

TUCKER CARLSON: I believe that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Realized that when I was on a plane, I’m sitting down, you know, hey, team 1A, sit on the plane. I’m like, “yeah, I’ll have a gin and tonic, girl.” And then you know, like a basketball player. Well, not basketball player or gay nerds, but like, a football player would sit next to me. Like, it would take hold of me. There were times I had to, like, go to the bathroom and, like, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Because I, because I had to get rid of it because it was, it was taking hold of my mind.

TUCKER CARLSON: It sounds like a demon.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, because it’s what it is. I joke. I say Gorgoroth, a semen demon. You know, he comes out the way. He doesn’t visit me very often anymore, you know, but it’s totally real.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, that stuff is all, it’s all real.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But I realized that, so I don’t do cocaine anymore.

TUCKER CARLSON: But I.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You know, it’ll shock people to learn. I used to be a bit of a cokehead, you know, when I was, you know, that rush of dopamine, the rituals associated with it as well, you know, I was like, “oh, my God. That’s, that’s how I feel about sex.” And that’s, that can’t be right. It can’t be right. No, it’s a.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s literally, I’m not describing my gay sex, but any, that is literally a perversion, and it is a demon.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And it’s also other things, too, because these things go hand in hand, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: May I ask how, in your own, with this, I’m too personal. How did you wind up.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I think we are. No, but I just told you. I w* on UA1726 when I cracked.

TUCKER CARLSON: One out in the bathroom.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And people are never going to sit next to me on planes again. I think we’re good.

TUCKER CARLSON: Anyone who’s ever bit. Well, I drank alcohol in the morning. I mean, you know, anyone who’s ever been possessed.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Please, I’m British. That doesn’t count. No, I’m giving me a real one.

TUCKER CARLSON: Anyone who’s ever been possessed by an obsession knows that it can totally distort your behavior. But.

The Roots of Identity

TUCKER CARLSON: We spend so much time talking in our society about gay. And it’s all good, of course. You know, gay is good, and gay rights are good. In fact, they’re the marker of human rights. So the only human right, really.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But it is the only human right people still care about. Your right to be sodomized. Your right to wake up in the morning, and you’re like, “Oh, okay, you’re ready to go, are you?” And hear that voice in your mind. And it’s not a sultry voice. It’s not a sexy voice. It’s “Go and get it.” It’s Gorgoroth. Anyway, sorry I’m interrupting you, but it is.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s dark. I’ve thankfully never—it’s one of the few problems I don’t have. But I get it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Grindr’s so dangerous, you know. It’s just like within 20 minutes they can be in the living room, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: I want to ask you about that, but first let me ask about your own life, because you never get to ask—everyone’s telling you how proud they are to be gay and that’s great and all that, but—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: To sin, by the way. Pride is a sin.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I agree with that. But you never get to ask, like, how did this—how did you start being gay? Like, it was specifically described with, you know—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: The way I remember—

TUCKER CARLSON: PG way. Right.

A Troubled Childhood

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: If you insist. No, the way I remember—we’ve done enough. I know the way I remember it is I just did it to piss off my mother. But that’s not true. I think that’s self-mythologization, you know. I did take a lot of drug dealers’ time when I was—

TUCKER CARLSON: Were you close to your mom?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: When I was in high school, she married—so I’ll answer your question. I’ll skip back first. Let me do that first. So my dad was in organized crime. Funny, charismatic, brilliant. There are things about Alex Jones that remind me of him a little bit. Just in that kind of manner, you know, like a bit of a bruiser, but with the heart. Like he’s a bad guy with a heart of gold.

TUCKER CARLSON: You know, I’ve known a few.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, yeah. No, I cleave to that kind of personality. It reminds me a little bit of the good bits of my dad. Right? But there was another section which Alex does not have, which was that, you know, he was a bad guy. And I saw him do really bad things to people.

I told this story before, but I would come down—sometimes the kitchen door would be closed and I would hear, “Nicky, Nicky, I’m giving up a life of crime. I’m turning over a new leaf. I’m not going to do anything that’s going to give me any more than 18 months.” You know, it’s funny, but it’s all about goals, Milo.

Yeah, but he was a bad guy and I saw him do things that really frightened me. You know, he was in pubs and nightclubs—running the clubs and the security and sort of laundering millions, you know, blah, blah, between those two. The security guards are on $120 an hour.

TUCKER CARLSON: Huh? Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yes, yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Office.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. “Aren’t you telling me? Tell them what you’re on. It’s like 110.” “120.” “120, you know.”

So he used to let me sit in the booth and do the stamps. And I would watch people go in and I’d watch the behaviors of low socioeconomic, white, working class, like in their 20s, just drinking, f*ing, you know. And then I saw some of the things my dad did, and they would start with that joke. They’d start with that very charming joke. They’d start with that alluring joke.

And my dad had a degree in—my dad had a master’s in fine art. He was a great sculptor and painter. But that was the charming bit of him. The dark bit was, you know, like, he would say to people—can I use bad language on the show?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, yes, you may, because you can bleep it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But my dad would say, like, “Listen, just because you’re in a wheelchair don’t give you the right to be a c*.” He would grab the wheelchair, spin it around and walk people up to parking lot edges and stuff like that. And I’m sitting in the car, like—

You know, or he’d go collecting, which means protection rackets. And he would—I would overhear like, “Julian, could you take your glasses off, please? I don’t want to get glass in my finger when I poke your f*ing eye out.”

It’s very charming, very funny, like very Tony Soprano kind of—of the ilk, you know. But I saw some of it. And I think maybe somewhere in my head I was like, “Yeah, if that’s being a man, I think I’m out.” Because I was a child, I was frightened.

And then my mother left him and married a new guy. And he was very, like, sort of a nice guy now, but he would go through all my stuff. Like, if I had papers, you know, if I was reading something for school or whatever, he would, when I was out, go through every page and just sort of leave it like this. It’s just that I knew that he’d been in there, you know.

And that kind of invasive—like just horrifying—for a very sensitive autistic child like me. We were already on my way then, you know, having—I had a much larger than life grandmother who was egging this stuff on. And by this time I had had some interactions, sexual interactions with a Roman Catholic priest who’s dead now. I’ve been dead for a long time. But that had obviously, you know, that fed into it as well.

Abuse and Its Aftermath

TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, wait, stop. That obviously fed into—right, well, if you’re being—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, well, yeah, also the molestation. No, but really for me this is why it’s important to do the other stuff first before you get—”Oh, and I was raped by a priest.” But this sort of psychological torture as I experienced it was, you know, sort of like I had no private space anywhere and I knew that all the men in my life were just not things I wanted to become.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And then I cast out. See, if you let me get to it then I cast back to a lovely old rich man in a frock. Father Michael and I—yeah, and I, who had not been like that with me. One of the things that got me into trouble 10 years ago was when I said I felt like the kind of the aggressor in that situation. I didn’t know what bad stuff it had done to me. And at that time I didn’t.

You know, I made a couple of jokes that got GOP ink hot and bothered because they’re all f*ots and they weren’t happy about some of the truths that we’re talking about today kind of toppling out. And so these things combined.

Having what I perceived to be—at that time I perceived as a child to be consensual sexual experiences with an older man who was a kindly, kindly sweetheart, you know, he was—I think of him now as a harmless old queen, you know. Of course what he was doing was not harmless.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you have a right to any opinion you want about the experiences that happened to you.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Apparently not. Well, I’ve been retired for some time as a result.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I continue to believe that people are allowed to formulate their own opinions about their own lives.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I think you should be able to talk about your rape however you like. I agree with that and not necessarily have to go on live international television and apologize for it like I did. But I’m not bitter.

Unfortunately, I carved out a much—I have a new kind of career and a new life now that I much prefer. Just more satisfying, lucrative. Blah, blah, blah. We’ll do it later. So I haven’t gone crazy like so many of my friends. And it’s funny watching them because I see some of the—in the way that their personalities have become kind of empty and sharded and become filled with wickedness. I see some of the things that I have been working over the last 10 years to get away from that created this sexual behavior. They’ve become facultized.

Homosexuality and Conservative Politics

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, well, there does seem to be a connection, but it does. You know, the incidence of closeted homosexuality on the right is like overwhelming. It’s like way above what you would imagine is statistically probable.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Three straight guys on the right is like Alex, you and I have a floating wild card just in case I forgot anybody, you know. Who else is there? I mean, maybe they’re me telling, but who else is there?

TUCKER CARLSON: What is that? I don’t understand it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: There is such a long—there’s such a long relationship, a long happy marriage between conservative politics and homosexuality. And it’s easy to joke about it and say, “Oh, it’s all of the bells and smells and frocks of the religious dimension to it all,” or it’s the pomp and circumstance of power or it’s—

TUCKER CARLSON: The New Testament is really tough on homosexuality. So I don’t see it as a—it’s not certainly not a Christian thing.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s not a Christian thing. But of course it’s easy to understand with the sort of obscene obese heresies of the type that obtain in this country. I mean, in a country where prosperity gospel can thrive—

TUCKER CARLSON: You’re right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Who would be surprised, right? It’s not an authentic faith, as we would know. I sometimes tease you about your denomination, but Episcopalian church is as close to us as it’s possible to get and was designed to be a mirror to high Anglicanism, which was indistinguishable from Catholicism and ethnic. It’s—

TUCKER CARLSON: Sorry.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: At its best. It’s a very similar creed, you know, to—and with a very similar style and similar beliefs, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So, but as soon as you wander away from that in America, just like mental.

TUCKER CARLSON: So, but what is—and I’m not attacking anybody and I never want to out people because I don’t, you know, it’s not my business. Right. I’ve never done it. And I mean, maybe I live—

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I live to out. I lived out. On which subject, Cory Booker, did you—

TUCKER CARLSON: See, but what is that? Why is there—why is it so common on the right? Well, of course on the left too, but on the right with closeted gays, like, I don’t get that.

Power and Control

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s an interesting question. I’ve never heard a really good answer to. I’ll be honest with you. I suppose I should have a good answer to that, but I don’t. And I think—but I think if it’s about anything, it’s about the exercise of power over others. Yes, I feel that.

TUCKER CARLSON: I have no idea exactly why that’s true, but I feel that that’s true.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: What’s the worst thing about magic? It’s not that you can turn a person into a frog or you can make yourself look more beautiful or you can whatever. What’s the worst thing about magic is that it robs others of agency. That you can make them do things they don’t want to do. The worst and most sinister bit of magic is that you can trick someone or compel someone against their will to fall in love with you or to—or to throw them off a cliff.

TUCKER CARLSON: Kind of slavery.

The Quest for Control and Power

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, exactly. The most frightening thing about magic is its ability to compel the wills of others. Yes, right. And that’s what I think homosexuals are seeking when they, because they feel so powerless in their own lives and have this understanding that they are broken people without agency over their own sex lives, over their bodies, over that down there. Like I don’t even have control over me, but I’m damn well going to have control over you. That’s, I think, a lot of it. And so if you dovetail that in with the telling the…

TUCKER CARLSON: Truth here, I don’t fully understand what you’re saying, but it comports with a lot of what I’ve seen.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I feel as though if you are a person who intuits that you have a lack of control of power, of agency, over your own drives, your own desires, your own urges, and even your biological anatomical, your physical responses, like, I can’t stop getting aroused by men. What is that?

You’re going to want to exercise power elsewhere over others. That’s so interesting. And being sucked into the nexus of intersectional, you might. You’re going to be tempted by explicit magic as well as the implicit magic of whatever. And so, you know, dovetail that with right wing authoritarianism. And I have to say, I’m sorry to say it, I must say it, some dimensions, in some respects, I can see that that might be something that attracts homosexuals to the Catholic Church, for instance. Just the illusion of being a bishop.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, or National Review magazine, you know, which is…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You don’t. Just save me. Sorry. I’m happy to talk about the Catholic element of it. I mean, the bishops are all f*. I mean, they’re all whoopsies. They’re all whoopsies. Gays. I like that one. It contains within it a kernel of the sort of slapstick that I think we have to. One of ways I got myself off it was imagining myself in that situation as ridiculous. Like, I can’t even perceive that I would do something so ridiculous like laughing at it became. Because, you know, I laughed is the death of arousal, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: Totally agree.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I read this. I read. Or I. Or. Or something like that went off in the background.

TUCKER CARLSON: Anyone who’s ever been laughed at naked can tell you that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It will never have. But I haven’t either.

No, but I mean, you know, like, it’s a favorite famous, like brutal British, particularly a British, like, injunction, you know, that laughter is the death of arousal or whatever.

And I just thought, okay, well, how about if I start thinking about it as ridiculous? Because it is ridiculous. I mean, you and the football team, like, it is ridiculous. And so that’s one of the ways I was talking about. But no, that is so true.

Seeing themselves as powerless even to control their own bodies and knowing on some level, I think homosexuals seek out those places and, you know, you see almost…

TUCKER CARLSON: Why you might want to bomb Iran in Venezuela.

The John McCain Theory

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. What’s gayer? What’s gayer? I’m not saying he was a practicing homosexual physically, but wasn’t. Is there anything gayer than John McCain’s like, bloodlust seen through this or his proteges seen through this prism? I mean, he’s even got the fat friend. It’s his daughter, you know, like, even bred. He even bred the fat best friend, you know, like, is there a more ostentatious, like, fag hag in America than Megan McCain? You know, she hates herself. She’s fat, she’s crazy, she’s every man’s dream, you know, can’t dress, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why is that every gay man’s dream?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Because they want to visit upon their female friends the cruelty they wish that they could perform on their mothers.

TUCKER CARLSON: Whoa, whoa.

The Devouring Mother

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They want to make her feel fat and ugly and ridiculous because that’s what their mother did to them. And there was no dad around to protect them. And their mother was just this overbearing, terrible, you know, sort of the Jungian devouring mother.

TUCKER CARLSON: All of this has been banned in the United States. So I don’t even think people are familiar with these concepts anymore.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Right. So I’ll try to keep it simple. Imagine like, imagine like a female, like Lutheran pastor or a female Jewish rabbi and they’re this like, you know, “hey, it’s great to grieve.”

That’s for a TV show. But you know, like one of the those, right? This is horrible. Overbearing monstrousness that on some level the homosexual knows is what’s made him like this. Because, you know, dad wasn’t around so mum did it, right? This is what, by the way, this is why trans was so popular because it got parents off the hook. If you’ve got a gay kid, you know you did something. But if your kid has a disease and was born into the wrong body, well, that’s not your fault, is it? And you, all the sympathy and oh, all your friends are, oh, do you got a trans kid? How tough for you. No, you got a f because you raised a f, because you’re a terrible parent. You know, that’s what’s really going on. They want to avoid that. So instead, no, I’m going to chop its ding dong off and say it’s got a disease. Like that’s why it was so popular with single moms. Amazing.

TUCKER CARLSON: Amazing.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: That’s why, that’s why trans was so popular, single moms, because it got them off the hook. It means they didn’t turn their son gay when they know they did. They know they did, they know they did. And the sons know they did. And the sons grow up being cruel to women.

Because of what mom did to them.

TUCKER CARLSON: So they’re hostile toward their moms, even though many gay men I’ve known…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But it’s a toxicity, it’s a codependent relationship that they know is they can’t, so sometimes they can’t visit this cruelty on their mom because they have this close relationship with their mom, but they do it on other women. It’s redirected, right? It’s transferred onto other women because they love a mommy. Like, what would I do without my mom? But on some level they know that she did that, she did that. So.

They force women into ever more uncomfortable and ever uglier outfits and throw them down runways in 10 inch heels or they what?

TUCKER CARLSON: So you think the fashion industry is acting this out?

The Fashion Industry as Revenge

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Of course it is. I mean, what other explanation could there be for the intolerable ugliness of the catwalk?

TUCKER CARLSON: You are blowing my mind on so many levels.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I can’t even. I mean, sure, we used to have. When society was working properly, you would go, have you ever seen Mrs. Harris goes to Paris?

TUCKER CARLSON: No.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s a lovely movie about a char lady. A housekeeper. Yes. Housekeeper, yes. To Americans.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: How do you know charwoman? And you’ve never seen Mrs. Harris goes to Paris.

Who dreams of one day owning a couture Dior dress. Like the person that she works for, right? And she saves up and she saves up and there’s calamities with her money and, you know, some boyfriend loses whatever. And eventually she manages to go to Paris and she manages to get the dress right. And when society was properly ordered, there were these aspirational beauty standards. And these aspirational lifestyle goals included gorgeous tailoring and beautiful silhouettes for women that accentuated their, of course, characters.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not like that now, is it like that now? No. And, and it’s funny, I don’t know much. I don’t know really anything about fashion, but I love female beauty. Of course.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But you don’t see any of it on the catwalk.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. In fact, you see the opposite. You see the opposite. You see, you see manufactured ugliness.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Gay men turning women into the demons they see themselves as, you see, gay. Look at, look, look at. The most celebrated woman on the stage at the moment is the gorgon opposite Ariana Grande, whose name I forget now. You know, the Nosferatu. Like black Nosferatu who seems to be sucking the life force out of poor Ariana, who’s, I think, going to die within the next few weeks. If you’ve seen that singer’s physique lately, she’s sort of. But this appalling calling apparition.

Cynthia or something, I think.

Of course she’s called Cynthia. You know, with these. With these claws, you know, and you look at the silhouette and you’re like, that’s literally Nosferatu. It’s literally Nosferatu. And I know a gay man did that. And of course a gay man then put her on stage in Jesus Christ Superstar as our Lord. Did you know that?

TUCKER CARLSON: No.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You seen the person I’m talking about, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: No.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Okay, well, you’ll Google it later. But it’s this spindly. It’s just straight up goblin looking black woman. I’m not trying to have a Roseanne moment, although she was right, whatever. But this woman is ugly by any racial state. She’s just monstrous looking. Just what our mothers might have called deeply unfortunate. Right. And practically circus level. And of course, she’s the heroine of the billion dollar franchise now Wicked.

And she’s on stage as Jesus.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it’s an act of hostility is what you’re saying.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Exactly, exactly. And so these gay men who feel the will of Gorgoroth inside them is like, don’t do it, do it. You know, and turn these women into the demons they see inside themselves. Themselves, you know, the demons they see acting on.

TUCKER CARLSON: This is a lot deeper than I expected.

Texted you to have this conversation.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s more than you would imagine from a guy wearing this T shirt.

The Death of Gay Creativity

TUCKER CARLSON: No, it’s not actually. And by the way, can I say one thing that’s bothered me for years? When I was a child, there was a lot of creativity coming from gay men in the United States. Like they. I know.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And it’s. Dave Rubin is responsible. Not him personally, but I mean, like…

TUCKER CARLSON: But you know what I’m talking about.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I mean, of course. And why?

TUCKER CARLSON: Because a lot of free thinking and I was related to one of them and I spent a lot of time in my house, lived under my house when I was a kid and gay. Died of AIDS, you know, but. And had a lot of problems, but in some. But I will say creative free thinking. Like truly free thinking. Gore Vidal was like the archetype.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: This is Burkian.

TUCKER CARLSON: There are no Gore Vidals in gay world that I’m aware of. They’re all like conformists and supporting the man. Like, what?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: The only ones these days ex gay. But…

TUCKER CARLSON: But do you know what I’m talking about?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yes. And it’s Burkian. It’s because creativity arises out of order. There has to be limits. And if homosexuality is not prescribed as wretched and kept at the fringes where it belongs, creativity dies. And what do you get? Because you don’t have those people playing with the limits. You don’t have the taboo breakers. You don’t have the artists, the creatives living at the limits of society. They’re brought instead. And I have to…

TUCKER CARLSON: I think the gay gay community such as this is one of the least creative, most conformist elements of our society. I never thought I would say that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They become the enforcers, just like they’re the enforcers.

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re the praetorian guard for Apple and Microsoft. What the hell?

The New Enforcers

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Just like the white women of folklore who, you know, are responsible for all evil, but they become like turbocharged Karens, you know? And it’s the white women who welcome in the white single moms, typically, but single moms generally, I think, who bring in a drag queen story hour because there’s no gay people. Like, banging down the door.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, that’s right, there’s no gay people.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Excuse me, can I come read your kids to your mind? Can I come restoration your kids? Like, no, they’re not. They’re not. But there are demons out there who will come do it if you invite them. Because what do you have to do with demons? Open a portal, open a doorway, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: So, yes, I do.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: These women open the doorway and in comes, you know, three little pigs.

But the gays now have taken this role. They’ve taken the…

The Mainstreaming of Homosexuality in Conservative Politics

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Mantle over from, you know, what we used to. I mean, we used to say, didn’t we? We used to say white single moms, the root of all evil. Like as, you know, kind of half joking because of all this crazy stuff they support. But now it’s homosexuals.

I have to be honest with you, I bear some responsibility for this, because it was me 10 years ago mainstreaming homosexuality into the Republican Party. It’s the great regret of my life, more so than anything I’ve done to my own soul, which is a lot. It’s the great regret of my life because it has given rise to horrors I never imagined.

Lenin said, “All revolutionaries come to hate their children,” while the gay horrors that I’ve given birth to, Lady Marga, Nick Fuentes, I mean, they keep me up at night. They keep me up at night.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why’d you mention Dave Rubin? What’s his role?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, because he is at the vanguard, along with another of other gays in public life, of introducing children into the equation.

When you do what I did, which is like, gays, just like everyone else, you be a normal gay. I remember. And this is the thing I regret more than anything else in the world. There’s a video of Ross Matthews in 2017 on Twitter saying, “So I came home and landscapers have been in. We’re getting more citrus. You can never have too much citrus.”

And people were asking me, “Ross, what do you think about this Milo guy?” And I’m like, “Milo, Milo, how low can you go? I don’t know who this person is,” but I read it and he says, “I’m getting letters. This is Milo guy. He’s resigning from Breitbart or something. And he says, I’m getting letters from people who say, you make it okay that I have a gay son because if he grows up, he doesn’t have to be like Ross Matthew.”

And I was like, no, they should be like Ross Matthews. They should be like Ross Matthews. They shouldn’t be like Dave Rubin. Like, you might not even know unless you watched him for a little bit. Because this domesticity of homosexuals has killed all the things that were good about gays that made them, like, tolerable.

And instead has given them this grotesque parody, this simulacrum of domesticity which has, of course, in their never ending hunger, expanded to include babies. And now we have the Buttigieg couple buying black children.

TUCKER CARLSON: I thought you weren’t allowed to buy people.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I thought, oh, no, you can if you’re homosexual. But I thought that was called adoption or surrogacy or whatever, but you can buy them.

TUCKER CARLSON: I thought it was called slavery.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: In fact, you have to buy them because it’s really. And it’s quite expensive.

TUCKER CARLSON: Some online slave market doesn’t cover.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: No, no, no. It’s the government.

And as you know. But Dave Rubin has, like, Frankensperm babies. Like, he mixed his effluvia with that of his husband. I mean, this is real, this is physical. Gave it a stir and hoped for the best. And whichever one we get, we get implanted it in some highly paid woman will never know the name of the real mother of those children.

And you know, he and his, he and his, his, his catamite are on, on, on the Internet, you know, with these signs, like it’s coming with these two dates. And I’m like, yeah, your damnation, that’s the date. You’re counting down to the, the, the, the, the date. You’re.

TUCKER CARLSON: How is that conservative?

Gay Parenthood and the Conservative Movement

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Oh, because it’s family, you see, because it’s, it’s the, the, the, the. The sleight of hand that’s going on is. You’re like, well, gays are just like everybody else, so we should behave like everybody else, which means we should have kids. And if we can’t physically have kids because our sex is this like demonic, sterile horror show, then we’ll buy them and then we’ll look like we’ve got. I mean, that’s how bad it is. That’s how bad it is.

And so you have the. I love. I don’t know if it says anything about Republicans versus Democrats, but you have like, like Dave Rubin, for whom buying a child is not good enough. It must be his own, you know, like the conceit of that. So on the right you’ve got this sort of techno conceit Frankenbaby. And on the left, they adopt blacks. You know, you’ve got these two wispy wiry f who adopted two black babies.

I mean, isn’t Buttigieg just the most interesting character of our age? Like, I mean, he doesn’t look like. He looks like an intensely boring homosexual, like everything gay people shouldn’t be. But it’s so interesting the fact that, I mean, clearly he wasn’t gay, like, at the beginning.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, he had girlfriends, right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So he wasn’t gay, but he made himself gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: I made that point because actually I had gated men who worked for me who were more in tune with this than me. I’m not in tune at all. I just didn’t. I thought, put a judge with a joke. But they said, well, he’s not really gay.

And I was like, no.

TUCKER CARLSON: So what does that mean?

Pete Buttigieg: Sexuality as Political Strategy

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, his sexuality, like all homosexuality, is a function, a product, a symptom. What is his homosexuality a symptom of? It’s of his vaulting ambition. Buttigieg timed it perfectly. So that post Obama, the gay guy with the black kid, kids, perfect presidential candidate.

TUCKER CARLSON: So to the. I think to the heterosexual brain, it’s like, are you really saying a guy would switch his, quote, sexuality in order to get a better job?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, yeah. Women do it all the time. Lesbianism, it’s got nothing to do with male homosexuality. Just, look, everybody knows they got a college girlfriend. It was a. They got a girlfriend who was a lesbian in college. Yeah, everybody. Like, you could barely find a woman who hasn’t played around with a woman.

Queen Victoria didn’t believe that this was sex or that two women would do that with one another. And she refused to accept that women even did that, very wisely realizing that lesbianism wasn’t real. And so lesbianism wasn’t illegal in Britain for a long time when male homosexuality was.

But female sexuality is known in the studies to be far more malleable. Women go backwards and forwards. That’s true all the time. And, you know, lesbianism is a social and political decision. It’s a series of social and political decisions. I mean, women want companionship, they want stability, they want safety. They can find that in a woman, you know, like, you can find that in a butch dyke just as easily as you can find it in American man these days.

I’m sorry. You know, at least she can cash in her Harley Davidson. What have you got? You know?

But, sorry, that leather jacket’s got to go for something. You know.

Warehouse full of eyeliner, you’ve got. No.

I joke, but only slightly. We’ve seen women do it. Seen women do it. They do all the time. They choose to be lessons all the time.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you don’t find it. You don’t find the.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I realize it sounds extreme and implausible.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, to me, anyway, it’s like, really.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But we’re dealing with a sociopath here. We’re dealing with somebody who’s. Who’s entirely divorced from his own. Emotional. From his own feelings. Right? We’re dealing from somebody. We’re dealing with somebody who will do anything, go anywhere, be anything.

I mean, are you telling me, like, is it. Is it so crazy that he would get. That he would have a boyfriend and adopt these kids? Is it so much more insane than a gay man living in the closet and having. And having a wife and having sex with her and producing children with her? Is that so nuts? But okay, so there’s probably more sex in Fair.

TUCKER CARLSON: Fair.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Is it. Is it like, isn’t it just like that? On steroids? Like, is it so bonkers? And that’s where gay people should be, by the way, in the closet, praying to get better. But. But is it so wild? It’s not wild.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, you’re right. And I just hadn’t thought of it. That.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And gay men have been doing that for centuries.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I know. I know a bunch of them.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Of course, we. Well, you work in. And I used to work in conservative media, and.

It’s all of them. It’s everybody. It’s everybody. They’re all. They’re all gay. All of them are gay. All of them are gay. Like, everyone is gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: I haven’t said anything about it for, like, 30 years because of my just general Anglo commitment to not get involved in other people’s business. But it’s so noticeable. I just don’t know what I. Clearly there’s something going on here.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, I think it’s the exercise of power of brothers, as we talked about.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really smart.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But in this case, the Buttigieg. I find him fascinating because.

He’s misjudged, but only slightly. What would be required to be the perfect presidential candidate, like, in 2028, 2024.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: He starts off, and he’s got girlfriends. He’s in the military country.

He’s living a normal American life. And then.

Chasen, I mean, like, if you want to. They say that ex gays often go for, like, near Eastern women because they’re not sexually demanding and they look like boys from behind, you know, like sort of Malaysian girls, you know, when they come to have wives. But isn’t Chasen kind of like the closest thing you can get to a Girl. Because it’s, you know, sort of. If you need a simulacrum of a woman, you know, flip him over. It could be a girl, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t think I know what Chasen looks like.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: His. Well, you’re blessed. His husband is.

TUCKER CARLSON: Is.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: If you don’t know that, then you might know the expression aged out twink or. But, but.

He, he’s about. As the most. The most effeminate man that you could. You could.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, is that true?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, not in the kind of like. So, so there’s.

TUCKER CARLSON: Whereas Pete has that kind of fake radio voice, like.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know. Yeah, yeah, so. So, you know.

And it is a fake voice because you can get. You can find recordings of him earlier and, and he’s got more into it, the more gay his life has become.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah. Like the, the. The.

TUCKER CARLSON: The bass.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: The diaphragm.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Talk from your stomach, Pete. Talk from your stomach. You can imagine chasing him before he goes on stage. Remember, babes, from your stomach. He’s like, eh. Yeah, y.

From down here. Just imagine, you know, remember what Lindsay said. You know, there’s a speech coach who taught him how to sound heterosexual, you know, whatever. But no, no, it’s going down. It’s like sinking. It’s like there’s something in there. It’s like working its way through this like achingly slow form of peristalsis gradually finding its way down. Eventually he’s going to sound like Gorgoroth. You know, he sort of already realizes his full potential. No.

He’s fake. He’s not gay. He’s not gay. He’s not gay. There’s a doubt in my mind. He’s not gay. But he’s performing homosexuality because. Including having the sex, but probably not a lot of it. I mean, you don’t imagine them. Well, I don’t want you to imagine anything because I don’t wish to leave an unpleasant taste in your mouth like that.

But I’ll. I’ll suggest to your viewers that it’s not a particularly sexually active couple, which might also explain how it’s possible for somebody to do that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: In the same way that a DL Gay guy wouldn’t be a particularly sexual husband.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right. Are gay marriages monogamous?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: That’s funny. Oh, you mean it?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I sense that they’re not having known some, but are any, I guess, is what I would ask.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I mean, I think you get that sort of elderly antiques dealer in Kentucky.

You know, you get that.

TUCKER CARLSON: You get so good.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You know, we have A senator like that who, you know, I think if he. If he found a husband who was prepared to put up with. I really shouldn’t. I really shouldn’t, but. Look up the ladybugs. Look up his ladybugs. It’s on the Internet.

TUCKER CARLSON: We have so many senators like that. It’s crazy.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, I think people know the one I mean.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, the actual one from Kentucky?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: No, no, no.

A little bit over, you know. You know, you can imagine he sort of invites his friend Jasper in for a mint julep, you know. And it’s like, do you want to just sit there while I get myself dusted up, you know.

Yes, of course, there are loads, loads. But I’m thinking of the one in particular. Everybody kind of. You said you don’t out people, so I feel like.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, sorry, sorry, sorry. I’m not going to. Well, you know Mitch McConnell’s name, but.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But no, I don’t. It’s a shame, isn’t it, the falling over. How long are you going to stagger on? They’re determined to turn themselves into the goblins that dictate their behavior.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s the thing about.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And I’m not.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, it’s that there’s a bloodthirstiness that’s just really distressing and offensive to me, actually.

The Will to Power and Public Hypocrisy

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But think about it like this.

The sassy, vindictive, catty cruelty of the homosexual. Imagine what he’d be like if you gave him a nuclear button, right? Sounds stupid, but it’s a continuum. It’s a spectrum, right? And so those gays that have the will to power, they go get some and they use it to bomb people or to bully or to.

I mean, how much must they all get off on the fact that they are all having sex and nobody would dare touch it? Nobody. Nobody outs them, nobody says a thing. And they’re all living lies to their. This is. I mean, we were joking earlier about outing people, but that’s why I have a thirst for it, because it’s hypocrisy. It’s public hypocrisy. I’m not interested in outing Joe Simpson, who has a corner store.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I’m interested in outing people who are misrepresenting themselves to the public and out. You know, somebody just got married with wedding pictures and with engagement pictures that are so absurd.

TUCKER CARLSON: I know.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I figured him out, by the way. I figured him out. I could never work out this guy. I was like, what is it that’s off with you? And I realized he always wants a bigger laugh than the joke he tells commands. And it’s because he’s actually obese, but in the body of a merely fat person.

If you think of him as 400 pounds, he suddenly makes sense because he’s always doing this, you know, and you’re like, oh, you’re a fat person. You’re a giant fat person. So he’s a really fat gay in the body of a merely slightly overweight guy.

And something’s personality begins to make sense. He does all these fat, you know, he’s got these fat tics that fat people do to get a bigger laugh than their wit would normally allow for, you know? You know what I mean? And everybody laughs long anyway because they’re fat, you know, the fabulous. Just funny because they’re fat, you know. And he acts like he’s funny because he’s fat, but he’s not fat. You check him out. Cory Booker. Yeah, yeah.

Monogamy and Gay Marriage

TUCKER CARLSON: So just back to the question though. Is monogamy an expectation in a gay marriage?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: No, I think. Well, I think it’s an aspiration. I think it’s a stated ambition.

But, you know, like all ambitions, we state something we know we can never reach because in grasping for it, we achieve greatness. And so maybe they only have sex with 20 people a year instead of 200, you know, and that’s gay. That would be gay fidelity. That would be gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Oh, yeah. I’m not even going to. I mean, maybe I’ll tell you. But.

TUCKER CARLSON: Because there’s no woman there to enforce it. So I’ve always.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Exactly. And normally no kids to the blah, blah. How could you lose your children? But this is why living on the DL in marriage with a woman is the optimum environment for a homosexual. Because all of the social cues are pushing them to do what they know that they should be doing anyway, which is working on eradicating these disordered urges.

TUCKER CARLSON: As the religious.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Religious ex-gays would put it, or unwanted same-sex attraction as the reparative therapists would have it.

Whatever it is, all of the cues and the pressure is moving them in the right way. And so, you know, I mean, that’s good. Alan Turing, for God’s sake, you know, was living like that. Who was Alan Turing? You know the Alan Turing, he was living like that and they castrated him anyway, which seems a bit mean to me. After the war, after he’d won the war for them, it’s like, okay, that’s all brilliant, but we’re going to chemically castrate. You know, it’s in a vicar turret system here. It’s like, God, go let him crack one out after he won the bloody war for you.

All right, all right. So Britain can. Brits can be savage like that, you know.

The Psychology of Promiscuity

TUCKER CARLSON: So do you know the happiness level of people who are involved in promiscuous gay sex?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: When you live that kind of life, you’re living deep in profound denial. And it comes from. I read something in maybe it’s the Atlantic or Mother Jones, of all places. You know, some left-wing gay guy who just wrote about this really beautifully. I’ll try to find it in Twitter after this.

But he said when homosexuals are young, they realize they have to put on different faces for different people. I guess the racial equivalent be code switching.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah. And the effect of this on a person who has disordered urges, unlike someone who just happens to be black, is that it begins to create cracks and ultimately that turn into shards in the personality. Like bits of the personality burst, ping off like a chandelier that filled the floor.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s so sad.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah. And it produces the space for profound denial of the type that most homosexual men find themselves in, where that flooding of addictive urge is mistaken for healthy and normal sexual attraction. And so I kind of stumbled when I looked into. I just woke up one day and I was like. And I was married to a dude.

To my shame, and I. Who’s now the ex-wife from hell. My God.

Look, if there’s no other reason to not be gay, just imagine how bad a black homosexual ex-wife is. Oh.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not even going to go there.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You don’t even want to know. It’s like, oh, sorry, it was two sports cars a year wasn’t enough. Okay, all right, okay, all right. Don’t even. But.

The Path to Celibacy

When I woke up one day and I looked over and I was like, oh, no, I don’t want to do this anymore. Hell is real. I don’t want to go there. And it just hit me, after it was growing, you know, while I was just like, no, no, I really don’t want to go there? And I know.

What am I doing? And the way that I started to address this.

I kind of stumbled upon a crude version of what the enlightened. They don’t call it conversion therapy anymore. They call it reintegrative therapy because it’s reintegrating those shards and those broken bits, memory that lead to the wrong output. We can talk in detail if you want to, but.

I stumbled upon kind of a crude version of that. So when I was trying to stop myself from doing this stuff, I was using hot oil on my thighs. I was doing things, you know, that hurt. And I was trying to rewire my brain.

Because I read a lot of psychology, anthropology books and stuff like that. So I thought, I don’t know what.

TUCKER CARLSON: Sex urge is such a basic and powerful urge. It’s got to be hard.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I thought I knew what I was doing. It’s like every time I get aroused, I’m going to go and do something that hurts, you know? And so I took the. I took the, you know, like, pay my taxes. No. You know.

Like having sex with black people. No, no, no. I did something immediately to try to redo that. And there’s a much better way to do it, which I can talk to you about. But.

I was. I think I was recognizing in that. That I had this. That something had jumped the tracks in my brain, right? And I was having an incorrect response to a particular stimulus as a result of damage, trauma, whatever, and that. And then it’s a little bit like being a PTSD victim or some other kinds of sexual deviance, right? And then. Yet.

I knew that I could train my way out of it, because at the same time, I had been returning to the Catholic faith of my childhood, and I had been speaking to a dear friend. She’s a very brilliant professor in Chicago. She’s a world’s leading expert on Marian devotion in the Middle Ages. And.

She was kind of feeding me this rich material about training the soul in virtue. And I was like, okay, well, if I can do it about that, because I’m getting pretty good at that. What about this? And so I did this stuff, and I got myself as far as celibacy, which is where I’m coming in January, it’ll be five years of celibacy.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And the good thing about the male libido is the less you have, the less you want. Which married men can tell you it’s the only reason they’re still married.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s like sugar though. The more you eat, the more you want.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It is exactly like that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why?

Appetite, Not Orientation

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Because it’s an appetite, not a sexual orientation. It’s an appetite and addiction.

And the more that you have cocaine or Adderall, the more that you are likely on a given Tuesday afternoon to be like, ooh, lime would be nice. Or ooh, why don’t I have a little instant release, 30 milligrams. I’ll get me through the day. You know, it works the same, it functions the same, it is the same.

TUCKER CARLSON: I remember reading during the AIDS period about the number of sexual partners a year, which is crazy high. I think it’s all banned. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. But.

And thinking, you know, if those were all hot girls would I want to sleep with 75 probably wouldn’t be able to get through it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Honestly, I don’t think most trade men would. It’d be like, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, men are obviously pigs and variety hit on something real.

TUCKER CARLSON: Which is that, well, I’m trying to be as honest as I can. I’m sure I’ll be mocked for this, but I did wonder if it’s. Could you get. There’s something wrong with the act itself if you’re doing with that many people. Right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yes. Now there’s a component of it where it’s the women are setting up the friction there. They’re the ones with the precious jewel, you know, that they’re setting up barriers to.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Men will put out if a man wants to have sex. They’re normally the person asking for the sex.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right? Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They’re normally the ones who are seeking the sex. Women normally the ones who are, I wouldn’t say withholding it, but regulating the access to it, let’s say as the enforcers for sure. Take that away and of course and put two men on there. And you’re like, well, if they both want it, they’re both going to do it all the time, of course. But that doesn’t really explain exactly.

The Nature of Gay Promiscuity

TUCKER CARLSON: That was my thought. It’s like if there was no limit, if good looking women wanted to—this is my younger self thinking this—if they wanted to sleep with me as much as I want to sleep with them, I still don’t think I’d sleep with 75 of them in a year because that sounds kind of gross.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, I mean by gay standards that’s practically celibate. I mean, maybe not these days with the boring gays that adopt the children who don’t have sex with each other and just molest the kids. But by the old fashioned gay standards of the taboo breaking promiscuous joy. I mean look, I grew up in London taking a lot of drugs, going to a lot of clubs, going to Ibiza.

And then of course, you know, like in London you had a circuit of clubs, Trade and Beyond and DTPM, whatever. There’s like a circuit every weekend. It was four continuous days which you could only really do with drugs. And during that time stops off for sex. I mean 75 is like takes you up to February fury. Actually, I mean I probably was a lot worse than usual and group scenarios and whatever.

But yeah, I mean it doesn’t fully explain the grotesque extent. And by the way, it’s always the gay couples that are basically lesbians that live sterile, like they live these sexless lives who are incensed when you dare to talk about gay promiscuity. It’s not because gay promiscuity doesn’t exist. It’s because they don’t have access to it. But most gays do.

And what we just, what we are thinking about in our hypothetical example of two men doesn’t explain the full grotesque extent of it. And it’s because there is something unsatisfying about gay sex.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that was my assumption and you’re correct.

Catholic Natural Law and Sexual Satisfaction

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So Catholic natural law and the way that law therapies work, they start with this presumption that things are working properly when they are performing the function for which they were designed. Right. Clearly an erect member going into the wrong orifice is not doing, is not performing the function for which it was designed. Right.

So sex that ends that way cannot possibly be satisfying. It’s not permissible spiritually, it’s not satisfying physically. So if you take Catholic Church teaching—

TUCKER CARLSON: For instance, no, I think that’s real. And that’s true for eating and it’s true for beauty. And it’s true the sex is sterile. No, but every pleasure that’s like a righteous pleasure satisfies you. Yeah, I don’t need 15 of them. Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But like justice feels good. You know, when you see somebody wicked get the comeuppance and you’re like, yeah. And that feels like a lot of that feeling. It feels a little like as you say, righteous pleasures. All of which tend toward the kind of satisfaction that a lot of people describe getting in Holy Communion.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s filling, right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It is filling. It is filling. That little wafer is very filling, right? The further you get away from that, the less satisfying things are by volume. If you like that tiny little wafer which is complete, that you feel like you don’t need to feel, eat, drink, think, pray, anything else the rest of your whole life. You just feel like perfect in that moment, like you have.

Because you are just in that brief moment in dialogue with our Lord in some fashion. And you’re like, that’s my Sunday vibes. You know, like, whatever it is. And it’s not until Monday morning that life kind of comes back at you. The further you get away from that, the more stuff you need to approach the same level of satisfaction. Think about like the fake sugar you have right over here. The corn starch, whatever it’s called. How much Hershey’s chocolate you have to eat to feel the same as two squares of Capri or how many Reese’s—

TUCKER CARLSON: Peanut Butter Cups equals a steak.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I really noticed that. I mean, by the way, you know, Halloween candy, you can—I don’t know. I don’t know much about calories, but you could eat like millions of calories, but you can eat six pounds of steak. It’s just not possible.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But the point is that not the sugar is bad, necessarily, but that this fake sugar that has that waxy taste, that’s not really what you need so much more of it to feel satisfied, to get your sugar here. That is totally right. And in so doing, you have so many more calories, right, and you start to get fat.

And then you need not just six Cokes, but eight Cokes a day instead of totally right, one. So homosexual sex is sterile. It’s not capable of leading to production. Excuse me, of procreation.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You cannot make a baby with gay sex. It is spiritually unsatisfying in addition to being—and of course, these two things are connected—physically unsatisfying, too. And when you start to think about like everything working, performing the function for which it was designed, like doing that for which it was intended, you start to realize why gay sex is not hitting, you know, and this is the basis. This is the start. This is where the therapy begins. It begins—

The Impossibility of Leaving

TUCKER CARLSON: But can I just ask you one last question before you describe how your life has changed? And I don’t mean to rush onto that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: No, no, no, I’m fascinated by it.

TUCKER CARLSON: But I just find it so interesting. So you spent like an hour and hell that you lived, you thought it was hellish, you left. And you, it sounds like you feel better and certainly resolved, but you’re not encouraged to feel that way. Like there’s something about the life that you live that’s treated like a gang initiation or something. Like you can check in, but you can never leave. Like, you’re not welcome to leave.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, just look at the comments you get. Like, forgive the language, but under every post that I will make online or every, you know, on the rare occasion I might say something about this in an interview, one phrase keeps popping up over and over again in the comments. “You can’t unsuck a d*.” Meaning there’s no salvation for you once you’re gay. You’re gay, you’re gay, you’re a homosexual. But that’s it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Who’s pushing that?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: The stain that that leaves, right? Which is profoundly unchristian. I mean, we think about Isaiah, right? You know, “Your sins may be scarlet, but they’ll be washed white as snow.”

TUCKER CARLSON: That Saul became Paul, right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Doesn’t exist for these people. And it’s often leftists, but not always. Insisting on this permanence of this stain. And it’s—there’s more to it than merely just “I hate you and I want you to hurt” or “You’re doing something stupid” or whatever. There’s something more going on and it’s—people are terrified by the idea that this might not be an intrinsic part of a person’s personality or nature.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why? Why are they afraid of that? I thought we were for personal choice.

Fear of Redemption

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, we’re all a bit afraid of that, aren’t we? Because we’re all kind of like, you know, we see other people who are doing well in life or who have got themselves out of a sticky situation or, you know, who left their phone on the table when they went to the bathroom, the bray or whatever.

And who lash out against others who do seem to be achieving something redemptive. And isn’t it true that one of those characterizations of the demons is that they’re, you know, in the presence of the light, in the presence of good, of the word, of God. They hiss and spit, right?

And it’s not necessarily these people who gave themselves, but they—to confront the horror that a gay person might be able to un-gay means that whatever you’ve got going in your life you could fix easy, you know, like. But you don’t want to do you. You don’t want to get better. You don’t want to stop. Because if he can stop having sex with men, knowing what a powerful compulsion urge that is from most men, that might mean I have to stop drinking, that might mean I have to stop taking drugs.

That might mean I have to stop being a fat ass. That might mean I have to stop being cruel, being vindictive, abusive, malicious. And I think that part of it is certainly that we have become a society that encourages vice over virtue, that aggressively pushes sin. Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why?

A Society Built on Addiction

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Because dumb dependent people are easier to control. Because dumb dependent people living paycheck to paycheck, enslaved not only to—and we live in a particularly evil environment now where we’re not just enslaved to things, we’re enslaved to the mechanisms by which we get them. Compound interest, you know, our car payments, all this kind of stuff. Fifty year mortgages. Yeah, thanks, Trump.

How many years of that are we just paying down the interest before we own a brick in a house? You know, we’re now enslaved to these meta addictions or these additional layers of problem which mean that we can’t even do anything about our lives because one missed paycheck and we’re, you know, we can’t do anything.

TUCKER CARLSON: Totally true.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: We can’t do anything about it because we’re locked in from every single angle into our addictions, into our compulsions, into the bad food that we eat at the supermarket because it’s cheap and the TV we watch, we know we shouldn’t. And the video games that are fine by themselves, but which, you know, 20 hours, 20 hours over the weekend. Like that’s a lot, bro.

You know, just all this stuff and it’s packaged and it’s pushed and it’s encouraged. And just look at the sponsors. I looked at the sponsors of Jimmy Kimmel’s show when he was taken off the air and it’s donuts and banks. Look at the sponsors of Jimmy Kimmel show and you’re like, oh my God. Like these are evil, wretched, terrible people who just want you fat, stupid and quiet.

TUCKER CARLSON: There’s no question in my mind you’re telling the truth. It’s too obvious.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They want you dumb, independent.

TUCKER CARLSON: And do you think the relentless promotion of homosexuality is part of that? Because it is relentlessly, tirelessly promoted, period. If anyone says it’s not a liar.

The Pink Pound

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: What is more incapacitating? What is more incapacitating? Having no control over your own sexual desires. And just look at how fee capitalism has made itself with homosexuals. Like, “Oh, you’ve got no kids. Well, perhaps you’d like these designer clothes,” you know. “Oh, you don’t have any dependents. Well, maybe you’d like to spend way more than you should on this cruise,” you know, or whatever. I mean, a boat cruise, you know.

“Oh, you, you, you. All your disposable income is yours to spend. Well, perhaps you’d like to try. We do have a special this evening, sir. Like our pan roasted—” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, they used to call it the pink pound in England. This disproportionate ability of gays to spend which has a reinforcing effect. It’s like a—I don’t know the economic term, but you probably do—has like a magnifying or a fortifying effect because of course gays spend more.

So you market more to gays, so you get more, you know, so you get more of them. And then other people begin to acquire gay taste, which has happened to women and is now happening to men because it’s seen as a prestige or a luxury or a desirable kind of lifestyle. So you see men, as the charming ladies of YouTube would tell us Sagittarius who are acquiring gay habits and gay, I mean, like soul cycle for it. I mean, please. What are these people doing? It’s like, you’re in like her and you want me to see your ass. Got it. Because this is doing nothing.

TUCKER CARLSON: What other gay habits or men acquiring?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Definitely a food, which, I mean, like, if you’re a chap. I saw it in the hotel last night as I was thinking about this show and I looked at the menu and I was like, this last thing on here for men, it was all these like seafood—

The Faggotization of Society

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: A bit, but hand, whatever. And the guy was serving me, had a huge gingerbread beard, God bless him. And I said, you don’t eat here. And he said, well. And I said, you don’t eat here. Where do you eat? And he said. I said, okay, fine. And I said, is there anything on here that you would eat aside from this? And it didn’t say how big the filet was, but I was like, what is it, six ounces? We need four of those. And he was like, yeah.

You work here. You wouldn’t eat anything because there’s nothing for men on the menu. Because it’s almost like airy, fairy, unsatisfying, calorie rich, full of flavor, but no protein. Food for girls. All food for girls. Look at the menu in your favorite restaurant. Look at the menu in every restaurant. There’s no food for men on it. I mean, where is it even, even like a heroic meat like lamb.

It’s like $78 for this little, this little.

TUCKER CARLSON: Thanks.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Thanks so much. What is that? That’s not man food. Food. So food for sure. I mean, clothing. Let’s not even.

Sexual habits. Women have become faggotized by the promiscuity culture that their gay best friends like to sort of have a nudge and a wink kind of relationship with like, oh, I don’t do it, but who’s this? Oh, just Jamal.

You know.

Who’s this? It’s not the guy that you were with like three days ago. Quiet girl. Sorry about her. You know, like just all that kind of stuff. And men. Just the way in which the self destructive.

Sacrifice, self sacrifice, the relinquishment of the will to the most addictive version of everything is very gay. Very gay. The most addictive version of everything. So like, if gay sex is like addiction where it just floods your mind with the chemicals where you can’t get it out of your head like we were talking about right at the beginning. Yeah. Well, the food has become like that and the clothes have become like that and the, you know, like men buying designer clothes has always been a bit sus to me.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I totally agree.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Like I’m, I mean, I do it because I’m like, I’ve got about another three years where I can still get away with this and then I’m going to have to just be straight. But you know, but while I can still do it, you know, and then I’m going to have to find like some, some like, I don’t know if I have to find my own nudge and a wink thing like, oh, no, they’re not Dr. Gilmano, they’re Arellano. Oh, it’s the late Pope Benedict XVI’s favorite shoemaker for him. Right. You’re faggotized. You know, stop it. You know, I have to give all this up.

But someone who’s been heterosexual all their life, like, what are you doing in Dior? Well, I mean, they only make shoes, I think. No, no, no, there’s male Dior now. What are you doing? It’s Chanel that doesn’t do men’s clothes. What are you doing in Dolce and Gabbana? What are you doing in Versace? Why are you spending a thousand dollars on a pair of shoes that is not like a tactical or a, and even that stuff. Oh my God, like the faggotization of like the, of the, you know, you can go now, you can go to Cryptek and you can get the Versace of camo.

Their salespeople will even call it that. Not on the website because men don’t like that. But like there’s now like designer camo where, I mean, I know I have it, but you know.

Everything is, look at the consumer who’s making these decisions. Women. And we have. This is a. Women, women in the marketing departments, women in the advertising, women on social media. Everything’s going gay. And it’s justified. And just the same way the pink pound is self reinforcing this thing we always say, oh, women make most of the purchasing decisions in most houses.

TUCKER CARLSON: Shut up.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Like, doesn’t mean every man has to go out looking like he, his knees.

In a public park or in a toilet just because his wife chooses what washing powder they use.

TUCKER CARLSON: Like, stop it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Everything has gone gay. Everything’s gone gay. I mean, just every bit of life. I mean music, I mean, now we force heterosexuals to listen to Lil Nas X, you know, and this sort of, you know, endless turnover of preening homosexual crooners that we call pop stars. There aren’t any anymore because.

Pop stars require a kind of like heroic manly virtue. I think that is just, just gone now. It’s just not there anymore.

TUCKER CARLSON: So if you wanted to weaken a society to the point of collapse, faggotize it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s not feminization. That’s a mistake to believe that. It’s not. Society is not becoming feminized, it’s becoming faggotized. It’s become, it has been gayed.

TUCKER CARLSON: Gayed.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You know, and it’s.

And it’s like the difference between effeminacy and femininity.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You look carefully at the behaviors. It’s like it might have started off feminized like you said. Oh, the HR departments have kind of like feminized language in the corporate sphere and blah, blah. It might have started that way, but the gays took over very soon afterwards. And so now we don’t have a feminized public square. We have a faggotized public square. And it’s hardly surprising given that everybody in Congress and everybody in the Senate and everybody in the. And everybody on TV and everybody else that you’ve ever heard of on television, and everybody on all the TV shows are gay. It’s not a shocker that this would be the result, because even if they might be living.

DL lives, they still like what they like and they’re still going to do it. And it’s like, oh, yes, let’s have that little cocktail. You know, like, they still do it, you see, at D.C. like, these men in D.C. like, drinking their little champagnes and things.

Washington’s Hidden Culture

TUCKER CARLSON: So when you are. I mean, a lot of this, it’s like walking into a room full of women and there’s all this stuff going on, but you have no idea what it is. A daily occurrence for me. But, you know, something’s going on, but, you know, you don’t quite get the right. Right. But it’s on the wrong frequency.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You’re not recognizing it because it’s not feminine. Because you’d recognize it if it was feminine. You’d know what you were looking at.

TUCKER CARLSON: But when you go to Washington, when you were flitting around Washington as a. What was your Dangerous Faggot tour? Is that what it was called?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yes, I think. I think the verb would be flit, perhaps flounce.

TUCKER CARLSON: There was some flouncing. I saw it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: There was a bit of flouncing. Do you know the funny story? Perfect. Sorry to cut you off. No, no. Again, I’ve been doing the whole day. But a perfect illustration of the faculty of society. I’m. My bus, my giant, dangerous faculty bus is in a parking lot just outside Washington, D.C. and Mike Pence’s advance team are planning to put him in the same hotel. And they have to change. Hotel. No, stop. But they have to change. I mean, he’s like, spiritually gay for sure, but he has to change hotels and divert his. I mean, this is the incoming vice president, United States. Right. To make way for the faggot.

Just saying.

TUCKER CARLSON: It wasn’t like, not the first time.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They could have come to me and said, would you mind? Because we have the vice president elect. Whatever. Or coming in. This is 2017, so he is the vice president. By then, we have the vice president coming through. And we would have said, yeah, sure, you know, we’ll go to the. We’ll go to the Residence Inn. But no, they just changed all of his plans. Not mine, to make way to make space for the faggot. Perfect analogy, isn’t it?

TUCKER CARLSON: Perfect. But you picked up that vibe a lot when you’re in Washington.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Oh my God. The number of people who. Sorry, you told me you don’t out people. No, I mean, I think allegations have been roundly disproven, haven’t they? No, but you know, the number of people. People who were just. I mean, they didn’t quite say hop on my lap, but so you.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, because you’re on that wavelength.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, 10 years ago I was very beautiful. And I didn’t notice. No, of course you didn’t notice. Been upset about you because I’ve had it ever since.

Tucker never said I was. No, no, I was, I was very good looking. You know, I was in shape and all the rest of it and, and now, I mean, it was, it was, it was like a daily avalanche. Really never needed to visit Niagara Falls. I just, just like I. I’ve got a. I’ve got, I’ve got a giant torrent coming out. Let me, let me. I won’t finish that metaphor. But. No, it’s just, just. No, it’s like a torrent.

Life After Celibacy

TUCKER CARLSON: So how has your life changed day to day now that you’re celibate and getting away from trying to overcome your gay sexual impulses?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I don’t really have them anymore. Not, not, not often.

My life is so, so I’ve learned.

Well, the first thing to say is that dogs have stopped barking at me. What?

I mean, I used to set dogs off. Like really set dogs off. Like they would go crazy around me and when I really. Yeah, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: With hostility or affection.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Making sense. Evil. You know, my spiritual. I can only tell this joke because it’s my spiritual director that said it.

I said, do you think it’s because they can sense evil? He said, no, it’s because you don’t smell like blacks anymore.

Look, the priest said it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Let the record reflect I’m not laughing.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: You know, dogs have dog. Dogs have a famous.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, I know.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Complex relationship with, with, with certain people.

I’m sure that’s not what it was. But. But maybe. No but, but you know the biggest thing that happened to me.

TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, can you stop? Did dogs. Are you being serious about dogs?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: 100% serious. I mean, like there’s two photos of me like snuggling with puppies, like, okay, you got me. But other than that, almost every other dog, like, would just go nuts anywhere around me. My, my. I set up a lobbying firm last year with a friend and. And her dogs just went ape anytime I was even in the vicinity until I started making these changes. And then it was like.

And now they’re like.

It’s bizarre. I mean, I’m a cat person now, because I kind of have to be. But I’m a great lover of dogs. Like, I think you are too. Yes, a great lover of dogs. And you know what they lack in intellectual sophistication versus their feline compatriots. They make up for in, like, intuition. You know, they do. Like, they’re like babies. They’re like. They got a little holy spirit in them or something. They’re just like. They know good guys from bad guys. Dogs just couldn’t be around me. That’s amazing. I mean, I’m sure not all gay people have that. The thing. But it’s just a sign of something that changed. The biggest thing that changed for me, though, which is not like a big. The biggest thing to me. Because I live quite an internal life, you know. Like, most of my. Most of my life is up here.

TUCKER CARLSON: Here.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Right.

The biggest thing that happened to me is I started caring what happened in stories. Like, spoilers started to bother me, and I couldn’t figure out what that was about.

Like, 10 years ago, when the Star Wars movie came out just before Christmas, when no one had had the chance to see it, I tweeted, “Han Solo dies.” You know, like, a thousand people unfollowed me. And they’re like, how could you? Ah, you know, you’re the worst person. Like, what are you talking about?

TUCKER CARLSON: About?

The Transformation of Perspective

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s like a stupid space movie. Like, get a grip. But I started to care. Maybe because I started to care what happens to me. I’ve started to care what happens in stories. Like, the plot matters. I’m no longer just looking at the surface, at the… well, at the surfaces. I’m not looking at the dresses on the women or the accents, or at least not just looking at those things anymore. Like, I want to know that the story has a happy ending.

Because I think, you know, cleaving to my faith more closely, I’ve become more aware that the universe has a happy ending. And I want a happy ending. And that’s the biggest thing that’s happened to me, like, in my… in my head, in my soul, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: Did you not care about yourself as much?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: No, of course not. Of course not. But I’ve gone from… I went from somebody who liked Oscar Wilde because I liked the witty lines and the sparkling surface of it, to somebody who appreciates instead now, or at least reads it differently now for the subversion, for the little eddies in language he uses, which are meant to show this kind of disintegrating way of life.

And I read it historically. Now I never read history books because nothing mattered before or after. It’s just like today, because I’m in a grip of an addiction. But now I read biographies. I never did that before.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, because a narcissist doesn’t care about other people’s lives.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Right. But I knew… I knew stuff, but I didn’t… like, I didn’t want to know details. And now I feel… I mean, Myers Briggs is a lot of old, but… but I’m like, my… my personality type, such as it is, is completely changed. Changed. And I don’t know exactly.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really? Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I mean, I know I look and sound, like, pretty similar, but the way that I… because I have the same sense of humor, like, I have some bits of personality that I have, but the way that I acquire information has changed. Like, I… like, I forget the distinctions because it is a lot of… but… but, you know, like the intuitive to the sensory or whatever it feels. Feels now like I can.

I feel more in tune now. Like, before, there was kind of like a sheet of glass, like some critical, ironic distance between me and the world. Right. Didn’t really want to engage with it, you know? And now I’m like, I want to grab the wood. Sorry, I’ll rephrase that.

Now I want to grab a different kind of wood. No, I want to, like, know what it’s made of and where it’s from and look at it and think about it. And like… so this is how you ended up, huh? You know, like, that didn’t used to occur to me at all. I just be like, yeah, it’s cool. I love the aesthetic. It’s really nice. I love what you’re going on. What is this shabby chic, you know, like… and I just wouldn’t know. And now I’m just like, this is alive. This is like, it… like, I… now I get. I didn’t get. When you first started, I was like… like this about the set. And now I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you were a prisoner of ironic detachment.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Like this.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: This kind of, like, everything’s got to be meta. Everything’s got to be whatever. Because I was afraid of engaging with the material critically. Yes. Authentically, you know, I was afraid of engaging with the material. And… and… and now I’m not.

Early Recognition

TUCKER CARLSON: Can I just say… can I just brag indirectly? Even when you were… I first met you in the green room at some Fox show years ago, many years ago, and you were in full…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Full.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, ridiculous.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It was a lot, it was a lot.

TUCKER CARLSON: Parody of… it was a parody of a gay man. Yeah, I thought, I thought you were deep anyway.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I, I could see that.

TUCKER CARLSON: Sorry. Not bragging. I always thought that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I mean, it was a compliment to both of us. Well…

No, but I, I now, when I do gay things, I do it in like a Margaret Thatcher accent because now it’s not really me anymore, you know, like, it was a confident.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, I saw that, though. I saw that instantly. Like, first day, I remember we were… Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Exactly where I was standing. But… but when you see somebody that way, I mean, there are, there are gay people who are not deep, you know, Dave Rubin, you know, people who just…

TUCKER CARLSON: No one shall work.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: There’s no… there, there. There’s nobody behind. There’s nobody behind there.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I know just that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And you read his book. You know, you read his book and it’s like, Candace made me read his book.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: She made me. He did. I mean, his book, like, “Don’t Burn This Book.” I’m like, I’d have to buy it first. I’d have to know, have to have heard of it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Like, I’d have to acknowledge it really is a book.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: No, please. The spacing, like, they sort of like the margins and… oh, my God. I mean, you know, from, from having so many successful books like that, all the publishing tricks, like, you know, if you, if your manuscript comes in short.

You know, we probably both had that happen to us from time to time. But there was this rumor that I… there was this rumor that I didn’t write my books. It was this team, a fleet of assistants. And so the first interview I gave about my book about the last pope, the book had been out two months, and I said, “Sounds brilliant. I can’t wait to read it.”

But I was like, well, you know, when you actually have, like stuff going on, you’re too busy to write it, and then you write other people’s books in the fellow periods anyway, so I…

TUCKER CARLSON: Actually have a famous friend who never read any of his books. No, of course, he had a million of them. Come on.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah. Bill O’Reilly, probably.

TUCKER CARLSON: But that’s very much a TV thing.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, it is, it is, it is. And I was on tour and stuff, so… but I did actually write mine, as it happens. I had a research assistant, but actually very great guy, Alan Bakari, who’s now writing a book about Gamergate, the Great Unsolved Untold Story about How Trump has Happened, which is completely topic for another day. But…

What was the question?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, the question was how you’ve changed as a person.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I do. I still go off on tangents.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, but you were saying that you have an appreciation for the future and for things beyond yourself, whereas you didn’t before.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I’m back in the room.

Now. It now, now, now I… I will. I care what happens at the end of stories.

Like I, I used to read it for the wit and try to remember the sparkling dialogue to semi-plagiarize it in conversation or whatever, you know.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

George Santos and Transformation

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And you know, I see a little of this change in another friend of mine in George Santos.

TUCKER CARLSON: What a good guy he is.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I can’t help but like him. I always liked him.

TUCKER CARLSON: You can’t help but like him.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I totally agree. I always liked him. I was just like, oh, he’s so likable and he’s likable. He would be likable if he was thin, which is how likable he is.

TUCKER CARLSON: I never thought of that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: He’d be likable even if he was skinny. That’s how likable he is. He’s especially lovely being jolly. But…

I’ve noticed in him some little changes, some adjustments along these lines since he’s had his reckoning and his… I mean, he had to confront something. I make a prediction.

Guarantee you the guy doesn’t die gay.

Guarantee you George doesn’t die gay because he’s going to see his behavior, the Walter Mitty stuff, as being in dialogue with, dependent on, congruent with the other damage. Guarantee it. Guarantee it.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m still so uncomfortable with this topic that I’m not going to broach that with him, but I think you’re qualified do that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, I’m on Tim Pool with him soon, so maybe I will.

The Conversion Therapy Debate

TUCKER CARLSON: So how do you change? Like, what’s the process, this thing that we’re not allowed to talk about, which is… and I can’t… gay conversion therapy.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: We don’t call it conversion therapy anymore.

TUCKER CARLSON: But that’s what it was called, right. They were trying to ban it to like you. You were required to be gay. I remember thinking like… and by the way, I’ve never been anti…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: What are you converting from into.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, but also the idea that you’re not allowed to change. Like what? That’s when I realized why are you…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Keeping people gay against their will? You keep you.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s when my mind, as someone who’s always been, I guess, pro-gay or whatever, I’d never really been that involved in it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: One of the least attractive things about you.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I agree. I agree. But I started… my brain started to change a bit when they were like, “We’re going to ban gay conversion therapy.” And I was like… I thought the whole point was you can be whatever you want to be, which I was kind of for. But now you’re gay. You must stay that way.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It’s respectable for you to be pro-gay if the basis of your pro… of your pro-gayness is that they’re trying to force people to stay gay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that… no, no. That’s when I started to change. I was like, what are we talking about here? You’re not allowed…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So you’re going the wrong way. Yeah. No, you’re just… you’re just off on this.

TUCKER CARLSON: That just blew my mind when they tried to ban that. This is not what they told me it was.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They’re trying to force people to stay gay against their will. Yes. I mean, it’s bizarre. There’s a Supreme Court case right now. The ruling will come next year about whether or not bans on gay conversion therapy are constitutional, whether it’s legal to do it. So we’ll find out.

TUCKER CARLSON: The craziest thing I’ve ever heard.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, the Supreme Court’s kind of like it always struck me, at least until recently, I guess, with the injection of the DEI lunatic.

The greatest chart you’ve ever seen. The greatest graph of my life. How much Ketanji Brown Jackson talks.

It’s the greatest chart I’ve ever seen.

TUCKER CARLSON: Self-esteem is in inverse proportion to ability. Yeah, we’re aware of that.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah. Yeah. It’s the greatest shot I’ve ever seen. And then you got… and then you got old Clarence in your life.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right. One word.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: It is the greatest shot.

I just saw it and my reaction was, that tracks. And we had… in the Supreme Court and probably maybe so. I mean, it’s sort of down the line, isn’t it? Democrat. Up until recently, it was, you know, really just like Catholics. We Jews on the Supreme Court.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t think there are any Protestants on the Supreme Court.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I don’t think there are now, and I don’t…

TUCKER CARLSON: There is one. Neil Gorsuch is an Episcopalian.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, but you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re… you’re just over the fence, you know?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, but I mean, there was a…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: While where you got a little toe in the Tiber.

TUCKER CARLSON: This country was founded and created by Protestant men, and there’s not a single one…

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Of the Supreme Court.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, it was.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: A fifth of them are Catholic. The smart ones.

TUCKER CARLSON: Only in Rhode Island. But whatever.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Another day.

When…

You see that kind of civilizational clash as it seems to me that it is one.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I can’t help but hope if they’re not going to do Obergefell, that they at least let people get away from being gay. Like at least let people leave. At least let people leave.

Because I had to fumble my way with hot oil on a stove and hurting myself to eventually get to a point where I was not seeing a particular stimulus and automatically having a particular arousal response. Is that what you want? Is that what they want? Is that what they want everybody to have to do? To sit at home and abuse themselves? To sit at home and hurt themselves?

To get rid of these unwanted, unwanted, disordered urges that are making them miserable, that are hurting other people, that are hurting them, that are the product of trauma, that are a trauma response. Is that what you want? You want people to sit at home and do it to themselves? I don’t think so.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think it’s what they want.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I think destroying people is what they want, but I don’t think it’s what we want. I agree.

TUCKER CARLSON: So how do people change and what is the process?

The Work of Joseph Nicolosi

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, the father of this stuff the most. I mean, there are some quacks.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I bet.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I’m not going to lie about it. But the father of the stuff, the most respectable stuff with the highest success rate. The guy’s name was Joseph Nicolosi and you can’t find most of his books on Amazon. Obviously. Actually, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why? Because they’re suppressed.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that just tells you that right there. If they’re banning books.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. Okay.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Well, I’m not such a, I’m not such an anti book ban guy. You’re a bit more of a free speech fund. What were the Nazis burning? What were they burning? Ask them.

TUCKER CARLSON: I know. I’m very aware of that. Well, I guess what I’m just saying.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I’m more of a free speech fund.

TUCKER CARLSON: I am a free speech.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I have evolved into more of an authoritarian over the last 10 years.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I’m not even having that debate. I’m just saying that you know what’s important to people, you know what they’re lying about by what they try and hide.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Sure, we can agree. That’s right. And we can also agree that all of the, all of the Jewish trans doctors need to have their books burned. But when he wrote about this stuff over decades had a very tempestuous relationship with the bodies in psychology and all the rest of it and psychiatry.

But you know, he’s the person to read if you want to understand how people become gay and how many of them have got out of it. So his, for me, the most important book is “Shame and Attachment Loss.” It’s kind of got a yellowy green cover.

And the good news is that although Dr. Nicolosi has left us, his son Joe Jr. is still in the practice and is still training therapists today. He’s based in California. California, obviously.

How the Therapy Works

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And so he’s still working today. And today the way that the therapy that Joe Jr. does presents itself is, okay, it looks weird. It looks really weird. It’s peculiar looking. It’s almost funny looking when you see, when you know, because sometimes they’ll film a session as a demonstration, you know, but it, and it almost looks sort of like a, like something you might see from Ally McBeal, like Smile Therapy or something.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But for a lot of patients it’s showing enormous progress. And progress we measure as the amount of arousal. Same unwanted same sex feelings like, are just like, I didn’t, wait a minute, did I? And I think I like got the hearts for anyone this week, you know? You know?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So people become, people have gay sex urges for a variety of reasons, you know, so that the, without getting too specific, you know, the passive partner in a gay encounter is looking to take on some of the masculinity he feels he lacks. And that’s in a literal, physical and in an emotional way too. Right. He’s seeking to absorb in some fashion the manliness he feels he doesn’t have.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yes. And it makes sense, don’t it? Like when you think about it.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve always wondered about what that was.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: But yeah, it’s a way of interacting with the kind of men you’ve never been able to interact with or who have never taken you seriously or that you’ve always kind of admired from afar or whatever because you’ve have had this like jump tracks thing in your brain from, from neglect or abuse or whatever it is.

And so you seek, you want to be, you want to, you feel like it’s, it’s like getting charged up and this is the way the magic comes in again. As you know, like this is how magic works. You know, like magic artifacts got like charged up with evil power. Like that’s what, you know, grace doesn’t work like that. You know, God doesn’t work that way.

The infinite limitless generosity and charity and grace of God doesn’t work like that. You don’t have to like recharge your reserves. Another reason gay sex is unfulfilling because it’s refilling a battery that’s always depleting. It’s like a slow puncture, you know, and you just top it up. You can never fill it up. You can top it up for a moment with, with an encounter like this.

Those urges in the first place come from a memory or a thought or something that’s leading to this arousal, this, this, this, this, this disordered urge. And the way to get rid of it feels a little like some people will have heard of maybe CBT. Although it’s different in some important ways.

The Three-Step Process

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: The therapy is three step. The first, the first thing that you do is you, you produce that state. So you think about, or you look at something that will take you to the place that would have produced arousal previously. And then you introduce something unexpected into the brain. And the idea is that you rewire the brain in its plus in its plasticity to expect a different outcome when it has that stimulus in future.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So the way I did it was to hurt myself. So if I saw a basketball player, basketball, because we’re all gay nerds, like I said, but a football player, like I said, sitting down next to me on a flight or something, something, I wouldn’t get aroused. Like the blood wouldn’t stop flowing. I would get like, you know, like that or something, right? Vaguely. Or at least wouldn’t get that, that arousal response.

The way that the therapists do it, which is better is, is a, a, a sort of like just a completely unrelated feelings, neutral kind of a thing.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And the way it looks is just remarkable. The third step is just repeat it. Because there’s only two ways you can persuade the brain of things, which is emotional connection and repetition. Nothing else works. Those are the only two means of persuasion that work.

TUCKER CARLSON: Emotional connection or repetition.

Programming Through Repetition

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: So this is why all the late night comedians who aren’t funny anymore, their job is not to be funny. Their job is to associate certain things with certain emotional reactions and then to do that every night of the week forever. So Trump ew. And then the next night Trump ew. And this eventually persuades people that Trump bad, right? Because they’re associating an emotional reaction to a certain thing.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. It’s just programming. It’s programming. It’s programming. They don’t have to be funny. That’s not their job. It is not Jimmy Kimmel’s job to be funny. It’s Jimmy Kimmel’s job to repeat and repeat. That’s why it’s so boring and repetitive, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat. Repeat, positive, happy. Like, Kamala is so brave. Trump’s hideous. Oh, God. Disgusting, isn’t he? Gross, isn’t he? Oh, that fat ginger orange. Whatever. You know, they, they, they’re not talking about him in terms of policy, they’re talking about in terms of disgust.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Because that’s a emotional thing. And again, again, again, again. Eventually, people like Trump. Ew. You know, of course, what’s happening. It’s just programming. It’s why the comedians aren’t funny. You’re welcome.

This is that per virtuous ends because it’s what works in the brain and it very often uses, so, so this is, people find this strange, but, so Aquinas talks about how grace builds on nature. Right. Thomas Aquinas. And so there are ways in which our bodies are, are machines. They function according to mechanisms and respond to stimulus.

And although there’s a spiritual dimension to all of this, the way our brains work is trainable. It’s trainable like a dog is trainable. It’s trainable like anything is trainable. And so the way this therapy looks, and I provided you with a couple of little examples in video so that you can see it yourself after the way this therapy looks is first of all, the original stimulus will be produced, and then there may be a pattern of, like, following a pen around or a particular kind of tapping on the knee or something.

It’s just intended to be like a neutral, different outcome from that initial response. So that no longer does the brain go to arousal because there’s something else. And that, it’s very common. If you see it in PTSD survivors, if you’ve ever been to the VA, you’ll see a lot of like, like this going on in, like, the treatment rooms. And you’re like, what the hell?

TUCKER CARLSON: Is that all?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, that’s.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s what it is. They’re, they’re.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: They’re produced. They ask them to remember something traumatic from their service and then something. This is kind of a little thing. And what’s going on is, the best way I can kind of describe it is it’s like when you press control, alt, delete, and then a couple of other things and the computer reboots without the virus now. Yes. You know, like, that’s not quite how computers work, but, you know, it reboots and you’re no longer in that stuff situation.

Again, you can do that with the brain, but it takes not just one reboot, but it takes repeated raising. If they, they call it the schema or the target, the thing that produced that unwanted response. And then immediately the introduction of an unexpected outcome. So your brain’s like, hang on a second. This happened? So I was expecting that. But then this happens, happen.

And then over time, your brain learns to just do that instead. And that instead could just be like something completely anodyne, or it could be like I did, which is a kind of clunking amateur version of it, which was something painful or unpleasant. And in the third step, just do it over and over again, and eventually you see people just have less of those desires.

It’s the most peculiar, peculiar thing, but it is being borne out in the studies. And so Joe Jr. I brought this with me. I’ll leave it with you if you’re interested. But 144 people in a randomized placebo blind trial. It works.

TUCKER CARLSON: It works.

Applications Beyond Homosexuality

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: And it works because these homosexual urges are not so totally unlike other forms of trauma, other forms of damage, other forms of deviance. This, this same thing. It works on people who are obsessed with rape. Like a guy who can’t get off unless he’s thinking about raping a girl.

Now, rape is something that women love to fantasize about, but perhaps don’t necessarily enjoy the reality of, even the reality of play of it, right? It’s something women love to think about, but, you know, you accidentally that one out without warning, you’re sleeping on the couch. A minimum.

It can help men to enjoy sex lives that don’t involve coercion because they have that sort of thing. And much of the same technique is used with people who have other kinds of trauma, who have other kinds of trauma responses as a product of bad things that happen to them or as a product of just something going a bit wrong, where that tracking is jumped, you know. And so this.

Reflecting on the Past

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Though it looks very odd. It’s based on decades of research and builds on other therapies for other kinds of trauma. And it looks like it’s working now. I didn’t have this kind of therapy. I will say that, like I said, I kind of bumbled through on my own because I’m stubborn and a loner. But this has started to work for people.

TUCKER CARLSON: When you look back on the life that you led 10 years ago, how do you feel?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: I feel ashamed.

I feel embarrassed and disgusted by the things I did. But I feel ashamed.

Particularly about 10 years ago, about how many people. I thought I was laying it on thick with this sort of day, mid average kind of high synth bouquet performance on stage. And I realized people weren’t picking up the layers, maybe.

And every talk I ever gave in the Q and A, I said, if I could not be gay, I would push that button. And nobody ever like that. Never registered with people all that they. Why, I don’t know. All they got was “being gay is okay now” and “being right wing, being gay and right wing’s okay now.”

And I know that I pushed that button with the left to annoy them and because it was absurd at that time, but people never got the message when I said, if I could possibly. I never gave a speech in my life where I told you people, go be gay.

I said, my first ever appearance on television was with Boy George like 20 years ago. And I said, “I feel that something is wrong inside me.” And I didn’t have the vocabulary to articulate this. And he’s like, “No, honey, you’re perfect just the way you are.” I can’t do what George. But I was like, “No, no, I feel that. Feel that something is wrong in there.”

And everybody around the table just left thinking like, oh, this is self hating, homicide, sexual. Well, I’m not hate. I wasn’t hating myself. I was hating the things that I was doing because I knew they were hurting me. And I knew even then. I never gave a speech in my whole life where I say, go be gay.

Speaking with Other Gay Men

TUCKER CARLSON: Have you ever talked to other gay men who have the same feeling?

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Yeah, yeah, I think, because, I mean, not many of them will articulate it like I do because I am a little bit cuckoo and I don’t mind kind of living in public and talking about my feelings. Like, my Twitter is just like this. Well, aside from the eight years missing, it’s just this insane stream of consciousness where I’ll just say the most ridiculous, absurd, outrageous things, but it’s because people are getting a tap straight in. It’s just what’s going on in there today.

So I’m comfortable living that way and I’m comfortable expressing myself and talking about myself. And I think now I have a duty now I have a responsibility to others because of. Because the message didn’t land like I was. I was not intending to give birth to this huge generation of gay Republicans who now just. I think it’s openly, like openly fine to traffic in babies and to be a gay Republican.

And I feel a great deal of responsibility for that. I hate myself for that a little bit.

TUCKER CARLSON: Milo Yiannopoulos, thank you for everything you said. Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate it.

MILO YIANNOPOULOS: Thanks.

TUCKER CARLSON: And your insight, which is amazing.

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