Phil McGraw Interviews Donald Trump on Dr. Phil Primetime (Full Transcript)

DONALD TRUMP: It’s controlled by the White House and the DOJ. Hundred percent.

PHIL MCGRAW: Gerard Baker wrote in Wall Street Journal today, and I’m paraphrasing, but he said, what do we say to those people that are rejoicing over reducing law to the status of a weapon in the hands of the dominant political power? Because that’s what’s happening right now. It’s become a weapon. And that’s not what it’s intended for.

That’s not what we need to be doing. I mean, let’s let the people decide these, right?

DONALD TRUMP: That’s right. That was a very good statement in the Wall Street Journal. I read that this morning. And it’s so true. I mean, it’s so accurate. They’ve weaponized to a level. They are trying to affect the election by demeaning, hurting in any form. And by the way, I think after the election, they’ll still. The hatred is great enough that they’ll go. But with much less enthusiasm.

Upcoming Elections

DONALD TRUMP: This is about November 5th, which I think is going to be the most important day in the history of our country. If we don’t turn this around, we’re not going to have a country left anymore.

PHIL MCGRAW: Well, we’re a country of laws, right? I mean, and that’s what’s made us so orderly. That’s what’s allowed us to progress forward. And there’s something that are called hornbook laws or black letter law that is just. These things are just been around so long. And these were violated in your case, one right after the other.

Improper Testimonies and Evidence

PHIL MCGRAW: For example, you don’t let someone that has been charged in the same case as someone else. And they made a plea deal and said, OK, I’m guilty of doing this because they were intimidated into doing it. The lawyer in your case, we don’t even need to speak his name. He bartered around out from under 65 years, looking at 65 years of imprisonment down to three years and two years on this case and a tax case.

So went from 65 years down to five years in exchange for giving them testimony against you. That’s not supposed to come in, but it did. Pecker making a deal, a non-prosecution agreement. That’s not supposed to come in, but it did. That got into the jury box. They got to hear all of that.

And so they say, well, you know, if we’re not down here for the reasons they’re saying, then we need an alternative explanation, which they’re not allowed to get because your expert witness that was going to come in and say, as a former chairman of the Election Commission was going to say, this was looked at. There’s not no issues here. They didn’t allow that person to talk to testify. And I’m looking at this saying, how is the jury supposed to solve this problem if they don’t have all the pieces to the puzzle?

DONALD TRUMP: They wouldn’t listen to him. They wouldn’t talk to him. They didn’t want to hear his testimony. They knew what he was going to say. He was going to say it was 100 percent. And very importantly, when they tell somebody you’re going to jail for 15 years unless you say bad things about this guy named Trump.

Intimidation Tactics

DONALD TRUMP: OK, now, in all fairness, we know a lot of great people, but you don’t know too many that would say I’m not going to do what they want. He goes up to somebody and they say, Dr. Phil, you’re going to jail for 15 years unless you say bad things about Trump. And if you say the bad things, you’re not going to jail at all.

In fact, we’re going to make you a hero or you’re going to go for three months or you’re going to go for a short period of time. How many people are there that say, you know, I’m not going to do that. There have been people. And those are, in my opinion, these are great people.

What they’ve done to people that work for me is incredible, incredible. The threats, the taking of a gentleman who’s been with me for years and telling me he’s going to jail for 15 years unless they say and. He went back to jail a second time. I guess they didn’t want him to testify.

Destruction of Lives

DONALD TRUMP: I don’t know what happened exactly, but the threats that they made to this man, they’ve destroyed his life. These are fascists. You know, these are really bad people, Phil. And but who’s going to do it? You go into jail for 15 years or you’re going to go for 30 days or 40 days or you’re going to go for no time. But you have to say bad things about Trump.

PHIL MCGRAW: And that’s intimidation. And some of these people, you look at their age, you look at their health. And for some of it could be a death sentence. And so they make a deal. And that’s what I talk about. That’s what I mean when I say prosecutorial abuse.

Personal Challenges

PHIL MCGRAW: Did anyone ever approach you and try to get you to make a deal, drop out of the race, make a deal here? We’ll leave you alone. What do you say to yourselves when the crowds aren’t cheering? What is the hardest, darkest moment?

DONALD TRUMP: We’re a nation that’s in tremendous trouble. Our country is in tremendous danger of World War Three. But the hardest part for me is probably my family.

PHIL MCGRAW: Has there been blowback on Barron because he’s younger and more vulnerable?

DONALD TRUMP: It’s not easy, but I don’t think I’ve ever said this on air before.

Pressure to Make a Deal

PHIL MCGRAW: Did anyone ever approach you and try to get you to make a deal, drop out of the race, make a deal here? We’ll leave you alone.

DONALD TRUMP: No, they didn’t. But I believe they would if they — if I would have offered that up. I don’t think I think they know me well enough. I think I really do. But oh, if I didn’t run as an example, I would have never had any of these lawsuits.

Unjust Prosecution

DONALD TRUMP: How about I get prosecuted on a person that I have no idea who she is. I have no idea who she is. I have to pay ninety one million dollars. And that judge was just as bad, just as corrupt. A corrupt judge. I have to pay ninety one million to a woman. I have no idea who she is. She wrote a book and she made a statement in the book. And, you know, that case, that case is a disaster. And then you.

But I have no idea who she is. And they said I did things. These people are corrupt and in some cases incompetent. But it’s such an honor to have somebody like you see it and see it so clearly. And I knew that. I mean, I remember that years ago you were helping Oprah out and she was sued and it was having a big impact on her. And I thought it was great. And, you know, Oprah used to really like me.

Relationship with Oprah

DONALD TRUMP: She was here many times. She loved my key lime pie. We have key lime pie. And she loved a lot of things about Mar-a-Lago. And Roger King, as you know.

PHIL MCGRAW: We were here for the funeral.

DONALD TRUMP: Correct. Long time. It’s the only funeral we’ve ever had at Mar-a-Lago. I said, maybe we can do a new business here. We’ll do operate as a funeral parlor. But it was one of the most beautiful funerals in the ballroom behind us. It was. And he was a great guy.

And Oprah’s terrific. But once I announced I was running and I said, we have to have strong borders, we have to have this, we have to have that.

A Conversation with Donald Trump

We’ve sort of lost contact, as the expression goes. But I remember when you were very much involved in helping Oprah.

PHIL MCGRAW: Well, that’s what I’m saying. It’s been time and time again. And that was another black letter long. You just don’t do. The judge tells you, “OK, you can testify, but I’m going to allow them to ask you about this person that you now owe ninety-one million dollars. I’m going to allow them to ask you about this other case. I’m going to allow them to ask you about ten contempt citations that I’ve given you. I’m going to allow them to ask about all that stuff.” What does any of that have to do with the matters at hand?

And the answer is zero. That gets into the jury box. If you take the witness stand again, that is black. You can’t let in unrelated things that have more prejudicial impact than probative nature. That just doesn’t happen. But it happened. One, two, three things right in a row. And that gets in the jury box.

DONALD TRUMP: If you testify, they’ll be able to ask you about all these different things. And by the way, if you say one thing, if you say it was a beautiful day, as I remember it, and it was raining out, we’re going to indict you for perjury.

And I’ll tell you what. I have a lot of lawyers that are friends. I had probably twenty-five guys over the course of a couple of months say, “Whatever you do, don’t testify because you’ll say something that’s a little bit off, and you will be indicted for lying, for perjury.” These are evil people. These are sick, evil people.

PHIL MCGRAW: Oh, I would throw myself in front of your car to keep you from.

DONALD TRUMP: I wanted to so badly. And by the way, I would have loved to have testified about those things because it was so corrupt and so horrible. But he wouldn’t have allowed me to answer the questions properly. And so, I would have loved to have testified. I wanted to. I’m telling you, they had to hold me back.

But every lawyer that they’d always start to say, “By the way, I’m afraid you don’t testify.” And they saw what he was doing. They can ask you about anything. They can do nothing to do with this case. All of these outside things. And it was really an unfair trial. There’s a very brilliant judge in Florida that’s holding the government. It looks like, I mean, she’s looking into what happened because, you know, they raided Mar-a-Lago, and they took stuff out by the satchel. I mean, they took bags and bags and stuff. And I said, “What are they taking? Are they saying what they’re taking?” Because they can add things. They can add the nuclear codes in there. They say, “Hey, here are the nuclear codes.” And this was all stuff that under the Presidential Records Act, I’m allowed to do.

By the way, Biden was totally exonerated. Now, I’m not sure I want that kind of an exoneration. They basically said he’s incompetent to stay in trial, but he could be president. Think of that. He’s not sharp enough, got no memory, got no this, got no that. He’s incompetent. Basically, they’re saying he can’t stay in trial due to incompetence, but he can run for president. What’s going on? What are we missing here?

PHIL MCGRAW: It makes everybody uncomfortable about that state of affairs. And what I was concerned about with everything that happened in this New York trial is one of the big myths is that the burden of proof lies with the prosecution. That is the law. But I can tell you after years and years and years of trial, the truth is that the jury sits there and says, “I’m looking at all this. And if we’re not down here for the reason they say we’re down here, somebody needs to give me an alternative explanation of why we are down here. So, if we’re not down here because of what the prosecutors are telling us, then what’s the alternative story? What’s the alternative explanation?” And when you get muzzled in the way that this judge muzzled this case, they’re sitting there saying, “What’s the rest of the story?”

You’re not allowed to testify because you’re in jeopardy if you do. They let all of this other stuff in. It should never get into the jury box. And so, you know, the scales get tipped, and it gets very, very difficult to get even one juror because there’s not an alternative story that if you could tell without being in peril, if you can tell without being intimidated, it would be a very different situation. The burden legally is on the prosecution.

PHIL MCGRAW: But logically —

DONALD TRUMP: You’re guilty until proven innocent.

PHIL MCGRAW: That’s exactly the truth.

DONALD TRUMP: I can tell you that’s the truth with me.

PHIL MCGRAW: That’s how it plays out. And I did a focus group about this when I did a show on this on Merit Street. And I did it. I had 250 people in the focus group, and I said and overwhelmingly, the people were in your favor. But I found those that had questions, and I said, “What is your question?” They said, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. I didn’t hear the other part of it.”

DONALD TRUMP: I’m sitting here, and you’ve asked me indirectly a couple of questions. It’s so simple to answer. I’d love that. And yet if I do, this guy’s going to — he’s willing to throw you in jail. OK, this is an appointed judge acting. He’s an acting judge appointed, and he’s willing to. And he’s so conflicted. It’s so sad. But, you know, you do things for your country. And I view it. I think if my country weren’t involved, because people say the two question — I get these questions from very tough guys like you. The biggest guys on Wall Street, the people that you read about, you know, but the tough, the tough men and women. But I have the question is often is number one.”

DONALD TRUMP: Number one question again. How do you stand it? How do you do it? How do you get up in the morning and put your clothes on and go to work? I do get that because people don’t envy it.

And the other one I get is, will they do it again? Meaning will they cheat? Will they do it again? Will it happen again?

PHIL MCGRAW: Well, I have a different question than that. How question. My question is why I understand how I know you got a thick skin. You’re not one of those people that’s afflicted with the need to be loved by strangers. I get that. My question is not how do you do it. My question is why do you do it? Why do you. Let’s face it. I mean, you’re a billionaire. You got a great family. You’re a very dedicated father. People may not see this in you a lot because you keep that kind of private. But my question to you is why do you subject yourself to this?

DONALD TRUMP: So there’s a movement in this country. It’s called MAGA. And Biden’s always fighting it. We will stop MAGA. MAGA is make America great again. And we were doing you know, I had an administration that was a tremendous success, even enemies. I mean, we had the greatest economy in history with the best job numbers in history. That’s why I’m doing so well with the black and Hispanic vote. They had the best job numbers they’ve ever had. We were doing things that were incredible.

And I was going through Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. I was going through the impeachment stuff, you know, all of that. And, you know, in one way, I jokingly said, somebody said, “Can you imagine what he could have done?” Because I had one of the most successful presidencies. And yet I was constantly fighting off the radical left lunatics. They are deranged. They are. It’s like a derangement syndrome. But I actually said, you know, maybe in some ways I did better because I showed something.

But maybe if I had too much time on my hands, it would have gone too far. And the administration wouldn’t have been as successful as it was. When you look at our job numbers, I rebuilt the military, largest tax cuts ever, largest taxes, bigger than the Reagan taxes, the largest regulation cuts ever.

PHIL MCGRAW: I’m saying with my why question, because look at this. Everybody calls it inflation, but affordability. When we talk about gasoline under your administration, average 2.57 a gallon, under Biden, 3.61, 40 percent more. Under your administration, homes averaged three hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Under the Biden administration, thirty-one percent more, four hundred twenty thousand dollars. Under your administration, interest rates, 3.8 average. Under the Biden administration, thirty-nine percent more at 5.3 percent.

OK, now let’s look at the border. Under you, average 1.7 million border crossings. Their official number is 6.4. That’s from Homeland Security. It’s actually about thirteen million because I know I’ve been to the border. I’ve talked to the border guards down there. Brandon Judd, I’ve talked to Jason Jones. I’ve talked to the people that actually know the numbers. They say it’s between ten and thirteen million.

So my point is, when you look at the actual numbers, plus the things you just talked about, lower taxes, higher tax revenue, you look at that and you would say, “My God, he should be running unopposed. I mean, what are these numbers?”

DONALD TRUMP: I just I appreciate it. But these numbers are really, I don’t know. As an example, I had gasoline down to a dollar eighty-seven, not 2.57. It’s now almost at four dollars. It’s going to be at five dollars very sure. It’s going way up.

PHIL MCGRAW: I took very conservative numbers so people couldn’t interest rates.

DONALD TRUMP: I was at 2.6 percent. They have 3.8. And now they’re at nine percent, ten percent. You can’t get money. So, you know, we did a great job. We did a great.

PHIL MCGRAW: OK, so here’s the question. Most people look at this from the standpoint of they ask themselves the question, “Is my life better under this administration, or is it better under this administration?” My quality of life, my ability to pay for my children’s lunches, tennis shoes, getting them to the dentist, getting all of the different things that go to quality of life. And when we look at that, it’s not even a close call. So why are people so energized against President Donald J. Trump?

DONALD TRUMP: Well, I think it’s to a certain extent it’s habit, not necessarily against me. I think Democrats vote out of habit. I’ll give you an example. I was the best president for Israel ever. Golan Heights, all of the things I did for Israel. And yet I get less than fifty percent of the votes. It’s shocking to me. And Biden’s a disaster. And Obama was a disaster for Israel with the Iran nuclear deal that he approved. All the you know, which was basically a path toward nuclear weapons.

And I say, why? And I say it’s habit. They’re used to voting for Democrats. Black people are used to voting for Democrats, but they’re coming off it. They’re smart. They’re seeing what’s happened. They’re seeing criminal justice reform. They’re seeing the black colleges and universities. I got it funded. They’re seeing all of the things that I’ve done. Nobody could do what I did. I say that and people sometimes smile, but it’s actually true. I’m the best president for black people since Abraham Lincoln. And people, black people, are seeing that. And we have numbers now that as a Republican, I don’t think anybody’s ever had. I hope they come out and vote for me.

PHIL MCGRAW: I was just in Jerusalem and interviewed Prime Minister Netanyahu. He said that the Abraham Accords, which you achieved, he said he didn’t have the words to describe what it presented for Israel in terms of security, in terms of the ability to bring about peace and stability to that region.

DONALD TRUMP: That’s very nice, by the way, that you say that. And by the way, great for the Arab community also. It was great for both. And they’re working so well. The only problem is we have four countries signed real leaders. I would have had everybody signed up. I would have had Iran signed up. People laugh when I say that. Iran was broke. I said anybody buys from Iran, you can’t do business with the US. Iran was broke. They were down to almost no money. They had no money to fund Hamas or Hezbollah. They had no money. They were broke. They would have made a deal within a week after the election. That result was very dangerous for our country. But we did great things. And I think that’s what people see. People want to go back to where we were.

PHIL MCGRAW: You have high-level appointee positions that you didn’t fill. And thousands more mid-level positions that you didn’t fill. And generated over four trillion dollars in tax revenue for the first time ever. With tax cuts, lower tax rates, higher tax revenues. It brought business into the country. So why are people so energized against you? Are you getting out messaged?

DONALD TRUMP: I think no. I really believe it’s a hundred years. As an example, with African-Americans, for a hundred years, the Democrats have run the cities. A hundred years. I used to say fifty. They said you’re wrong. I said you have to be kidding. It’s a hundred years. It’s a habit. They get used to it. But they’re learning that habit’s being broken in a lot of different ways. I also think you have a fake news that doesn’t report it the way they should be reporting it. Look, the news has been proven to be totally fake. And it’s ninety-five percent on the other side.

That’s the thing I don’t understand. Why do people want open borders where millions of people have come into our country? And you see what’s happening to the crime rate.

Influx of Criminals and Prisoners

You know, a stat came out the other day that’s scary. In Venezuela, Caracas, different cities, they’ve moved many of these criminals out into the United States. And now, happily, in a location near you, right near your house.

PHIL MCGRAW: Venezuela, the Congo, they’re emptying the prisons. The Congo, we have many, many people coming out of the prisons of the Congo. But the prison populations are way down all over the world. Nobody wants to talk about it.

DONALD TRUMP: Prison population and mental institutions, something you deal with a lot. You know more about a mental institution than I do. That’s your world. That’s what you do better than anybody as far as I’m concerned.

Impact on Crime Rates

DONALD TRUMP: You know the population of mental institutions is way down because they’ve moved a lot of the most seriously ill people into our country. And Venezuela just announced that they’re 72% down in crime from two years ago. Think of that. Because they moved their, I mean, you don’t have to be a genius to realize, they moved their prisoners out, but they moved their gangs.

All the gang members are now in the United States, happily living in the United States. The United States of America has become a dumping ground because of a very mentally deficient president. And it’s not him. I don’t believe it’s him.

Criticism of President Biden

DONALD TRUMP: I do think he knows what’s going on. I think he’s sort of an evil guy. But he’s not at the top of his game, and he never was very good at it. If you look at his foreign policy for years and years and years, you look at how bad he was on the crime bill in the 1990s, how he’s been bad at everything, and he got lucky.

He ran three or four times when he would be, let’s say, in normal shape, in good shape. He failed. He got it when he shouldn’t be here. He shouldn’t be here.

Dealing with Foreign Leaders

DONALD TRUMP: And he’s dealing with President Xi, who I know very well, and he’s dealing with Putin, who I know very well, and he’s dealing with all of these leaders of these countries that doesn’t, they don’t like the United States, they don’t like what it represents, and they are at the top of their game. They are vicious. They love their country or they want success. You define it any way you want.

We’ve become a failing nation. We’re a nation that’s in tremendous trouble. We have months to go. We have somebody negotiating for us and dealing for us who is not up to par.

And I’m not even saying now. I think 25 years ago he wasn’t up to par. But he’s dealing with President Xi of China. He’s dealing with President Putin of Russia. He’s dealing with Kim Jong-un of North Korea. He’s dealing with very tough people that really are at the top of their game. I know them all. I know many more than that.

Threat of World War III

DONALD TRUMP: And our country is in tremendous danger of World War III. Our country is, you look at what’s going on with Ukraine now, you see what’s happening, where they’re talking about nuclear. They’re bringing out the N-word, as I say, and they’re talking about nuclear weapons, and they’re talking about things that were never, in my White House nobody ever uttered the word nuclear. Nuclear is a very bad word because of the power of weaponry.

And we have a man that should not be dealing. And we’re going to end up in a nuclear war. We’re going to end up in World War III with this guy. And if he, the five months is a long time. We have five months to go before the election.

Early Voting and Upcoming Election

DONALD TRUMP: Now it’s even a little bit less. It’s getting to be very close. Remember, you have early voting on September 22nd. Pennsylvania goes September 22nd. So it’s really less, quite a bit less. But I really believe it’s a very dangerous time because I think they’re making moves. They love him as our president.

They don’t respect him. They think he’s weak and incompetent. Now one thing I’ll say, he’s surrounded by a lot of fascists and communists, but a lot of fascists. And they’re young and they’re smart. And that’s who’s running our country.

Inheriting a Challenging Situation

PHIL MCGRAW: Well, let me ask you something then. Let’s assume that you inherit a situation where American bombs are being used inside of Russia. Let’s assume that you inherit that. We could wind up with World War III if we’re not there already and it just hasn’t been labeled yet.

DONALD TRUMP: We’ve never been so close to World War III as we are right now.

PHIL MCGRAW: There could be 100,000 or more potential terrorists on American soil right now today given what’s happened at the southern border.

DONALD TRUMP: Correct.

PHIL MCGRAW: And we do have Venezuela, Congo, others that are emptying their prisons of their most dangerous criminals with one caveat. We’ll let you out, but you go to the United States.

DONALD TRUMP: I believe every country is doing it. By the way, if you were the head of a country, you’d be the first one to do it. You’d say, well, let’s get rid of these. You know the money they save and the danger they save?

Chinese Investments near Military Bases

PHIL MCGRAW: And look at this map. I did a show about this. The red is where Chinese government has funded buying major farmland. And then superimposed on that are some of our most strategic military bases. And you can see there’s…

There’s Dugway Proving Ground. That’s military equipment, biological, chemical weapons. They’re surrounding it. Utah Test Training Range, the largest supersonic authorized restricted airspace in the United States. Whiteman Air Force Base. B-2 Spirit Stealth Bomber Base. Missile drone operations. MQ-9 Reaper. Global Strike Command 3. Air Force, entire bomber force, nuclear command control and communications. Fort Liberty. Airborne Special Operations Forces. Rapid deployment.

We’ve allowed them to come in and buy up agricultural land. Wind farms. No wind, no blades on some of the towers. But they’re surrounding our military bases. We’ve allowed that to take place. You may come in and inherit all of this and it may get worse over the next five months.

DONALD TRUMP: It will.

Addressing the Challenges

PHIL MCGRAW: What are you going to do about that?

DONALD TRUMP: Well, first of all, you mentioned, I think, Fort Liberty. It used to be Fort Bragg. We won World Wars from Fort Bragg.

PHIL MCGRAW: Yes.

DONALD TRUMP: And they changed the name. And I don’t even want to say that they spent $37 million in doing it because that’s not the most important thing, but that’s a lot of money.

Now, I will say this. We want to let people come in and invest in our country at the same time. We want them to come and invest. We don’t want to make it so impossible. We have to be careful. And this is a lot of land. What disturbs me as much, because we don’t want to say we’re not going to let anyone come in and invest. That would be a bad thing.

Concerns over Military Base Proximity

PHIL MCGRAW: You know, when I was young— But they don’t need to buy around our—

DONALD TRUMP: No, there seems to be a lot of activity around those nuclear sites, to put it mildly. But the thing, when you mentioned Fort Liberty, I remember that battle. As soon as I got out, they changed it. But they changed many names, almost all of them. They changed the names of these forts. Well, we won two World Wars and plenty of other things. And, you know, there’s a great anger about that.

Presentism and Changing Standards

PHIL MCGRAW: Well, as you know, they call it presentism. What they do is they take today’s cultural standards and apply it to people’s conduct 100 years ago, as though 100 years ago they were supposed to predict what the standards were going to be 100 years in the future and behave the way things were going to be 100 years in the future. You can’t do that.

It’s like you drive through a neighborhood when the speed limit is 20. Then they come and change it to 10 and say, I’m going to give you a retroactive ticket. And that’s what they’re doing. They’re holding these people to the standards of today’s mores and folkways based on how they behaved back in that time. It’s called presentism.

Tyranny of the Fringe

PHIL MCGRAW: And so they say, oh, no, we’ve got to take these statues down. We’ve got to change these names because they were behaving in ways that we wouldn’t accept today. Well, but it was accepted back then. I’m not saying it’s our brightest hour. I’m not saying it’s our most shining time. But these people also did great things along with things that we may not be proud of today. But that’s who they were at the time.

DONALD TRUMP: And it’s never if you know these people, because it’s a group of people and they don’t represent the big majority. OK, they don’t represent. But it’s never good enough.

PHIL MCGRAW: No, I call it tyranny of the fringe.

DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, it’s never good enough. You could do all the name changes. All of a sudden they’ll find that’s a problem.

Dealing with Inherited Challenges

PHIL MCGRAW: So if you inherit this, if you inherit bombs in Russia and you have to deal with Putin, if you inherit terrorists on our soil that could attack our energy grid, how do you deal with that?

DONALD TRUMP: I will deal with it and I’ll get the war in Ukraine settled and done. By the time I get to office as president elect, I will get it done as president elect. You have great power. I was able to do great deals from the time I got elected in 2016. I was able to do great deals from the time I got elected to the time I got to office.

Because you have great power there. You need the power of the presidency to do it. I’m going to get the war in Ukraine. If it’s not done by that time, now it looks like it’s getting worse. They’re taking weapons now where they can shoot deep into Russia. Where is this going?

Delinquency in NATO Contributions

DONALD TRUMP: Here’s the problem with Ukraine, which is right next to, you know, we have an ocean in between. They’re in for a tiny fraction of what we’re in for. And I know them very well because I did it with NATO. I said, you people are delinquent. We’re paying almost the entire cost of NATO. So they excuse the word. They screw us on trade. And then on top of that, we’re supposed to defend them. And I said, it doesn’t work that way.

But I didn’t want to do that on my first. I let them know my first. When I came back, I didn’t want to do it. I was in office for like two weeks. You know what I’m saying? But I said, you’re not paying your way. And I went back the second time and I said, you have to pay. Hundreds of billions of dollars was paid.

Defending NATO Allies

DONALD TRUMP: They asked me one question. Will you defend us against Russia if we haven’t paid? I said, absolutely not. As soon as I said that, oh, and I took a lot of heat from the fake news. The fake news went crazy when I said that because I said I won’t defend them.

Now you have the same thing. They paid hundreds of billions of dollars quickly. And that’s where it got all the money to do what they’re doing now. But remember this.

Cost of Supporting Ukraine

DONALD TRUMP: So we’re probably in for $250 billion. They just got $62 billion. And now I heard today that they need more money. It’s going to never end. Now, you have some people that say it’s not a war that should have ever been started. It would have never started if I was president. Putin would have never done it.

First of all, energy went up so much that he makes money on it. When you get up to $100 a barrel, I had it at $40 a barrel, Phil. It’s so different. But it would have never happened. But now it has happened.

Preventable Conflicts

DONALD TRUMP: You know, sometimes I hate to say almost that it would never have happened. And Israel would have never happened. The attack on October 7th would have never happened because Iran was broke. And Iran wasn’t funding Hamas. And they weren’t funding any of the terrorists. Hezbollah, all of them. There’s like 28 of them. They had no money.

They were broke. I said to China, if you buy oil from Iran, you can’t do business in the United States. They didn’t want to take any chance of that. Everybody stopped. And we had, you know, we had no terrorist attacks. And I never wanted to talk about it when I was president because I didn’t want to jinx it. I wanted to get up and say, we have had no terrorists. Think of it.

Threats to National Security

DONALD TRUMP: During my four years, we had no terrorist attacks. This nation is in such danger right now with the people that you’re just talking about coming in. And it was interesting because I saw 29,000 Chinese people and they showed it on camera. They look very strong. They all have their propane stoves. They all have cell phones. They look like military people.

PHIL MCGRAW: A lot of military-aged men.

DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, they’re mostly men and they’re mostly of a perfect age for military. And it’s almost like, what are they doing? Building a military organization within our country with our help? We have people running our country who are grossly incompetent, headed up by a president who should never be there.

Addressing the Challenges Ahead

PHIL MCGRAW: How do you unravel that?

DONALD TRUMP: Well, you have to do it with people and we’ll do it. Look, I have the same thoughts as you do. You know, a lot of common sense to this stuff. It’s not… We talked about it before. Conservative, liberal, I don’t care. It’s common sense.

A Conversation on Borders and Policy

We need borders. We need low taxes. We need good education. We need a strong military. I rebuilt the entire military. The entire military was rebuilt. I built a wall that was so great, and I got Mexico to give us 28,000 soldiers while I was building the wall to keep people out. We didn’t have what you have today. We had the lowest day the week that I left office, and it was a sad day for this country.

The week that I left office, that’s when we had our lowest illegal flow of immigrants coming into our country. And all Biden had to do was leave it in place. I had a thing called Remain in Mexico. They had a Remain in Mexico. How good is that? They had Catch and Release in Mexico. It was so stupidly run.

And all Biden had to do when he goes to the beach, you know, he’s always on the beach, right? He thinks he looks good in the bathing suit. Some advisor said, “Go to the beach, you look great, Joe.” And he can’t even lift a chair, which weighs about six ounces. You know, those chairs that you can lift. They’re meant for children and old people to lift.

So Joe is in the sand, and he’s on the beach, and he’s totally decimating everything that we built. We built the strongest border in the history of our country. And we’re going to do it again. Just one little thing. In 2016, I got elected maybe because of the border. But that border was a fraction. That was nothing compared to what the border is today. And I fixed it. And you know, in 2020 when I ran, I couldn’t even talk about it. Nobody wanted to hear about the border because I fixed it. I’ll fix it again. But the border today is many, many times worse than it was in 2016.

PHIL MCGRAW: Well, I’ve been to the border, and they just straight up say we’re using tax dollars to send some of these children that are coming across the border into known prostitution rings, into sweatshops, because we don’t have the ability to check. They’re just sending them off.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, you know we have 88,000 missing children. Now, can you imagine if that were Trump that had 88,000 missing children? 88,000. That’s a Holocaust. That’s as bad as I’ve… I mean, think of it. These are young, very young children and also women. They take women, and they trade women. And I had it brought down to the lowest level because I had a border that was actually strong.

PHIL MCGRAW: And you’re going to take it back to them?

DONALD TRUMP: Oh, we’re going to bring it back, and I think then some. You know, one thing, and you know this better than anybody, that you’ve got to know people. It’s about people. If you put a great person at the head of a big agency, lots of good things happen. In my business, if I have a good super in real estate, a superintendent running one of my buildings, and if I move him to another building, sometimes you move him to another building because… But then that building… You need good people.

And we had a lot of great people. I had some that I was very disappointed in. I had some that I was very, very disappointed in. But the one thing is that I was in Washington 17 times in my entire life. I never stayed over. That was reported by the news. I was very rarely there. I wasn’t a Washington. I was a New York person. I was a builder in New York, a real estate guy. I had a wonderful company. Everything was going good. It would have been so easy just to keep doing that.

It was probably one of the… One of the most successful days of my life was the day before I announced I was running for president. Once you do this, the whole world changes. I even lost Oprah, okay? Oprah liked me so much. And, you know, I haven’t spoken to her, I think, since. But she’s a good person. Please give her my regards. But, you know, you do things, and my attitude is you have to do what’s right. If I didn’t think that I won the election by a lot, I would have never run. And I don’t think I’ve ever said this on air before. Maybe I have. But losing the election wouldn’t have been that… You know, somebody wins, somebody loses. You go on with your life.

But when you lose an election that you know you won by millions of votes, millions of votes… If I didn’t think I won the election, I would have never done it a second time because I would have lost. In other words, I would have lost. I ran because I won the election. And I know that that’s what the people want. They want what you and I are talking about right now. They want strong borders, and they want good education.

They want all these things that we talked about. And we’re going to get it to them, and we’re going to get it fast. Probably the hardest problem… The biggest problem is nuclear and the weaponry, and we have to keep out of wars and all that.

But the hardest problem for our country is the millions and millions of people that have been brought into this country, that have been dropped here. Many of them should not be here. They’re really, really bad people, from the jails, from the places. And you know what’s going to happen? You’ll take ten out, and you’ll have one where it’s a woman with a couple of kids, and you’re going to have the news, “Oh, look at this, how horrible, how horrible.” It’s a very hard thing to do. But we have to have the largest deportation effort in the history of our country. Dwight Eisenhower had it very early on because he was one that wanted strong borders.

PHIL MCGRAW: But you’re not against immigration.

DONALD TRUMP: No, I’m totally for it. I think we need it desperately. But I don’t want their prisoners, and I don’t want their people from mental institutions, and I want people to come in legally. I want to let people come in. We need it. We do need it. We need people. But we need good people. We need people that aren’t going to blow up our shopping centers and kill people.

Dealing with Criticism and Stress

PHIL MCGRAW: Let me ask you two areas I want to talk to you about that’s going to be different, because I’m different, so let me be different. You have a personality-driven platform, just like I do. Mine’s a fraction of yours. You’ve taken every shot you can imagine. You’ve been criticized, attacked, called every name in the book. They’ve turned the judicial system against you, the intelligence community. Fifty-one intelligence officers swear that this is a Russian plant, this laptop over here, right before the election. The media has turned against you, print, TV, radio, Internet, in the streets. Not campaigning Donald Trump, just real Donald Trump. How do you deal with that stress in your most private moments?

DONALD TRUMP: So, two things. Number one, I don’t like thinking about it. Out of sight, out of mind. I don’t know if that makes sense to you. I don’t want to think about it. Number two, I have tremendous support. I have the people’s support. I think if I didn’t, I wouldn’t be able to handle it so easily. When a judge who has conflicts like nobody’s ever had wants to put me in jail, when he puts a gag order and says, “If you talk about these things, we’re going to put you in jail,” I’m the Republican candidate. I was president. I’m leading the Democrat by a lot. Wants to put me in jail. I like not to think about it.

It’s like they say, “Oh, don’t eat that food. Don’t eat this food. Don’t do this. Don’t do that.” They don’t really know. It might be good for you. It might not be bad. It might be good. They say, “It causes cancer.” I say, “Don’t talk to me about it. I don’t want to hear the word. I don’t want to.” It’s out of sight, out of mind. I think I have a very good disposition for trauma. But I have great support. One thing is because you mentioned lots of groups, and you’re right about that. But I also have great support within the media. There’s a group of people in the media.

You might be one of them. You’re a very important force. The fact is, I’ve watched you so long, I just felt so confident when you called. I said, what do I have to subject myself to? Does it make sense? But I find it to be a very different and very interesting. It’s a psychological interview that you’re doing, too. You’re sort of being my psychiatrist, and maybe I could use a psychiatrist. No, it’s pretty cool. But I try not to go into that. And very importantly, I have tremendous support. I have support from the people. You look at the polls, and they agree with me. They’re sort of a silent majority. It’s a term that’s been used over the years, but it’s a true term. I have the support of many more people than they have, if we call they the bad guys. And I think if I didn’t, or if I felt I didn’t, I would not be quite the same person.

PHIL MCGRAW: We all have a personal truth. It’s what we believe about ourselves when we don’t have our mask on. I put on a nice suit. I’m going to see the president here. I want to be credible. Looks good. And we put our best foot forward when we step out into the world. But we do have a personal truth that what we believe about ourselves that are most vulnerable, when nobody’s looking, nobody’s listening, maybe it’s 3 o’clock in the morning, we wake up looking at the ceiling, thinking, what the hell am I doing?

What do you say to yourself when the crowds aren’t cheering, when you’re home alone, you’re riding in the car, you’re by yourself? What is the hardest, darkest moment that you can think of in this journey you’ve been on over the last several years?

DONALD TRUMP: You have to be very strong. You’re fighting off very evil forces, and they’re very smart forces. There are people that control Biden. Totally true. I think I know who they are, largely. But there are people that control him. They’re very smart, very energetic. Possibly they’re real believers, you know, what their sick ideology is. But you have to be smart, and you have to have confidence. I mean, you have to have a certain confidence.

The other thing is I realize over the years, and I’ve been through a lot, great and bad. You know, I won the presidency. Everybody said, how are you going to do it? It was that. It was the most incredible evening. One of the most incredible evenings in the history of the country. Look at the celebration. I mean, it was incredible. But you also go through bad. I understand fully that the bad also disappears. In other words, you’ll go through bad moments, and it disappears.

It’s sort of funny, because I’ve watched your show a lot over the years. See, I’m not ashamed to say it, because some people say, “Oh, you watch Dr. Phil.” Well, you know, your show is a very smart show. And I’ve watched you ask a question similar to that to some couple or some… And they break down. Oh, they start crying on the show.

Personal Resilience and Strength

DONALD TRUMP: I said, that’s never happening to me. If that happens to me, that’s the end of my political career. I think people… Actually, maybe people would like me better. But I’ll tell you what. You need strength. You have to have strength. And people don’t want to see that.

I’ve watched so many people. You break down people. They don’t even know they’re being broken down. But it’s different.

PHIL MCGRAW: That’s the last thing I want to do with you. But I do want people to know you. I want people to know every aspect of you. And I know it about myself. I know that not every time is a great day. Not every time is a hard day.

DONALD TRUMP: I thought you led a charmed life. You never had a problem in your life, right?

Challenging Trial Experience

PHIL MCGRAW: I watched you during that trial. That’s not a fun time.

DONALD TRUMP: You know, it was an icebox. That courtroom was so cold.

PHIL MCGRAW: Really?

DONALD TRUMP: I mean, I believe it was set that way by the judge. That courtroom was freezing. You know, I’d call it the icebox, right? I’d say, I just sat through four hours. And I’m not campaigning by doing that. That’s what angered me. They’re taking away my voice. They’re keeping me in this icebox. And they’re taking away my voice.

Impact on Family

DONALD TRUMP: But, you know, one thing that’s… You bring it up. And you haven’t asked me the question yet. And I’m sure you will. Although I know we’ve been doing this for quite a while. It’s an honor to do it. But the hardest part for me is probably my family. Because it’s very unfair to my family. I have a very good wife. She reads this crap.

I have great kids. You know what amazed me? I gave up my salary. I didn’t take salary. And it’s $450,000 approximately. $450,000 a year. You know, it’s still money. It’s a couple of million bucks.

Forgoing Presidential Salary

DONALD TRUMP: I never had a story, a good story saying I did. I’m not looking for a story. What surprised me is there was a couple of stories. Who else did it? Nobody. Everybody took… I figured maybe Kennedy. It’s a pretty rich family.

I figured the only one that may have done it was George Washington. You know, George Washington was a very wealthy landowner. And they said the only one that may have done it is George Washington. I figured Roosevelt, maybe FDR. You know, there’s some pretty rich presidents. Every president took their salary. Bushes took their salary. I didn’t take my salary.

I gave it up. Gave it up. And every month I’d get a call from the fake news. Because, you know, you can’t really give it up. You have to give it to an organization within government. You’re not allowed to actually give it. So what happens, you get the check, and then you give it to Health and Human Services. Or you give it to the Navy. Or you give it to the Army or something. And every month they’d say, did he give it? Did he give it? And when you show them that you gave it, there was no story.

Rigged System and False Accusations

DONALD TRUMP: And it was just interesting to see. The whole system is rigged. I mean, it’s just a nasty system. But the saddest is, I’ll give you one quick example. I have a son, Don. He’s a good kid. And he wants to help people. And they said he was involved with Russia.

DONALD TRUMP: He knows less about Russia than that young person sitting right over there, who I’m sure knows nothing about Russia. And it was Adam Schiff. Adam Schiff. A bad guy. And he comes out of a so-called intelligence meeting. And he goes to a microphone. And there’s a lot of press gathered. Because this was during the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax.

Total hoax. Had nothing to do. Five million phone calls. They had not one phone call to Russia. It was a hoax. And it came out that way. And it’s nice. But it took two and a half years.

Dangerous Hoax and Accusations

DONALD TRUMP: And by the way, it was very dangerous. Because at least Putin understood it was a hoax. You know, he used to say, what? He thought we were crazy, to be honest with you. He thought we were crazy. But Don, so they say, Adam Schiff comes out and says, Donald Trump Jr. will go to jail because of what he’s done with Russia. And it was Adam Schiff and Hillary Clinton and some others in the DNC that they made up a story.

Think of how bad you have to be. You make up a phony story about Russia, Russia, Russia. The Russia hoax. You have the dossier. You have the whole thing. It’s all fake. They paid $12 million or something for the dossier. $12 million. They gave this guy Steele a fortune to do a fake story. It’s called the fake dossier, right?

Impact on Family Members

DONALD TRUMP: They go to my son. They know it’s fake. It’s not like they think it’s real. They know it’s a fake because they made it up. And they say, Donald Trump Jr. will go to jail. So I call up my son. I said, are you OK? Is there something I don’t know?

How bad do you have to be when you can say about a story that you made up that you know is fake, that my son is going to go to jail because of the story?

PHIL MCGRAW: How do you deal with that as a father? Because I’ve had it happen to me. You’ve met Jordan.

DONALD TRUMP: Yes.

PHIL MCGRAW: And my other son, Jay. I’ve had stories about them. And it infuriates me.

Criticizing Political Opponents

DONALD TRUMP: I mean, I called him. I called him up. I knew it wasn’t true. But I said, this guy, these are not stupid people. I call him Watermelon Head. He’s got the thinnest neck I’ve ever seen. Howard holds up that head. He’s got a neck that’s about a size six. He’s a very unattractive guy, both inside and outside.

And people say, oh, that’s such a terrible thing to say. It’s OK. Very unattractive guy. Here’s the thing. These are bad people. And it’s not easy to deal with. You know, when you have your kids involved or your family, your wife, and you read stuff, most of it is untrue. It’s just totally untrue.

Unfair Accusations Against Family

DONALD TRUMP: But think of that. They make up a story, and then they say your son’s going to jail for something that they know is false. These are bad people.

PHIL MCGRAW: Is that harder to take than when they’re talking about you?

DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, for me it is. For me, I’ve become, I don’t know, I’ve become different. Maybe it would have been tougher. I think the fact that I have such unbelievable support helps me a lot. It doesn’t bother me.

PHIL MCGRAW: Has it bothered you? Has there been blowback on Barron, because he’s younger and more vulnerable?

DONALD TRUMP: It’s not easy. And he’s a great kid. He’s a good student. He’s got accepted to different colleges. Some of those colleges, all of a sudden, they’re writing all over the place. You know, you’re saying, but he’s a good boy. He’s a tall boy. Very tall. He’s very tall.

Impact on Barron Trump

DONALD TRUMP: And he’s a great kid. He’s a good-looking kid. And he’s going to be going to college. But he doesn’t say it. And I think he doesn’t say it because he doesn’t want to hurt me. He thinks it’s possibly a hurtful conversation. But it has to affect my family. And I think that’s really unfair, because I have a very good family.

DONALD TRUMP: I have good kids. I have a wonderful wife. I mean, it’s not easy for her to read this kind of stuff. That’s fake. That’s fake stuff. But that’s the way it is. It certainly is not a good thing. And, yeah, it affects me more than it would if it were just about me. I wish it could be just about me.

Impact on Melania Trump

PHIL MCGRAW: How’s she holding up through all of this?

DONALD TRUMP: I think good. But I don’t think it’s an easy thing for her. And I think if it wasn’t good, she wouldn’t want to tell me about it, to be honest with you, because she sees that I’m fighting like hell. I’m trying to become president and make America great again. That’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to make America great again.

They put tremendous obstacles in our way, including the 20 million people that are going to be in here by the time this guy gets out. It’s an election we have to win. We’re not going to have a country left if we don’t win this election.

Toll on Family and Personal Sacrifice

PHIL MCGRAW: Have you ever thought that the toll that it takes on your family is too much? There are headlines out there that say, when you win your second term, you are going to make the people that have come after you pay. Every situation needs a hero. What a great opportunity to step up and say, you know what, it stops here. It stops with me.

DONALD TRUMP: I think you’ll be impressed. We have to unite the country. We have to save the country.

Determination to Save the Country

PHIL MCGRAW: Have you ever thought that the toll that it takes on your family is too much?

DONALD TRUMP: Maybe not in the way you expressed it. It’s a very interesting way of expression, actually, of that question. I haven’t really. I think to a certain extent, I think that my family wants me to do it. My country’s in trouble. We could be in a world war very soon. We could be… We’re going to end the problem.

DONALD TRUMP: Think of it. We’re going to end Ukraine fast. I’m going to end it fast. I know both. I know Zelensky. I know Putin very well. I’m going to get it ended. That is a horror show that’s going on over there.

Questioning Foreign Aid and Support

DONALD TRUMP: But think of it. Why are we hundreds of billions of dollars, more money? Why is this happening? Why is Europe spending a fraction of the money that we’re spending? There are so many different things about that that are just wrong. But my family’s good. My family loves this country, and I think they feel that I do a good job.

Look, we had the most successful country we’ve ever had during my time. We had the greatest economy in history of any country.

Family’s Perspective on Running for Office

PHIL MCGRAW: Do they want you to run, or do they tolerate you running?

DONALD TRUMP: Interesting question. Well, they tolerate it, but…

PHIL MCGRAW: They at least tolerate it.

DONALD TRUMP: Yeah, they tolerate it. I think they love the country. I think they think that I do a good job. I think they feel that… A lot of people say that this is… I get it so often, I’m not sure it’s right. They say there’s nobody else that can straighten out this country.

Global Respect and Leadership

DONALD TRUMP: And again, Viktor Orban said, just recently, he’s a strong man from a very interesting country, and he knows Russia very well. He knows Zelensky very well. He knows Ukraine. But he said the only one, Hungary, he said the only one that’s gonna straighten this out is Trump because… He didn’t use the word respect. He used the word… They were afraid of him.

I don’t want to say that about these people, these other leaders. I don’t want to say they were afraid. I’m not gonna use that term. But let’s use the word respect. They respected me. They respected me, and they respected our country. And they knew if they played games, I was gonna hit the hell out of them with tariffs and lots of other things. We have a lot of weapons, not just military weapons. I rebuilt our entire military, by the way.

A Conversation on Military and Leadership

Our entire military was rebuilt. And this person that we have leading us, if you can call the word leading with quotes, he gave away $85 billion worth of brand-new military equipment in Afghanistan. In my opinion, the lowest day in the history of our country. I think probably the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country was what happened the way we pulled out of Afghanistan.

DONALD TRUMP: We left people behind. We had 13 soldiers who I met the parents. They’re devastated. Killed. Nobody ever talks about… You would talk about them. I put them right at the top.

Thirty-eight soldiers who are no arms, no legs, faces just wiped out. They’re trying to live, you know, trying to live. Nobody ever talks about them. They talk about 13 dead. Absolutely. But they don’t talk about 38 soldiers that have been wiped out. And then hundreds of people were also killed. You know, hundreds of people where this madman set off a bomb. Should have never left them.

They should have been in Bagram. We should have kept Bagram. Bagram is one hour away from where China makes its nuclear weapons. We gave it up. You know who’s occupying Bagram right now? China. China. We gave the biggest Air Force base, one of the biggest runways, one of the most powerful runways, eight feet thick of concrete, built when the dollar was very big, okay? Years ago. We gave it to the Chinese. It should have never happened. What we’ve done… I think that was the most embarrassing day.

And I have to tell you, if that didn’t happen, I don’t know that Putin would have gone in. I think Putin watched that catastrophe and he said, “Hey, this is a great time to attack Ukraine.”

PHIL MCGRAW: You think it emboldened him?

DONALD TRUMP: I think so. Yeah, I think so.

On Moving Forward and Retribution

PHIL MCGRAW: Let me ask you this. Right now, headlines everywhere, of course, you don’t respect, but there are headlines out there that say when you win your second term that you are going to make the people that have come after you pay. Retribution and revenge. And let me ask you this before you even respond to that. I want to play what if with you for a minute. What if when you win this election, you said enough is enough. Too much is too much. This is a race to the bottom, and it stops here. It stops now.

They’ve made a half a dozen or more major attempts to take you off the playing board. And you just said it stops now. I am going to rise above this cycle of ugly. I’m not going to play this gotcha retribution game. It stops now. I’ll forgive. I’ll not ever forget. But I am not going to play this retribution game. I am going to put the American people first, not getting my pound of flesh first. You got to do what you got to do. But I’m going to put this country as the shining city on the hill. I am moving forward. I’m not playing the retribution game. It stops with me, and it stops here. What if you took that approach?

DONALD TRUMP: I’m OK with that. I am. I’m OK with that. Sometimes I’m sure in certain moments I wouldn’t be. You know, when you go through what I’ve been through, they spied on my campaign. You know, they spied on my campaign. Remember, I announced it. They did things that people don’t even talk about. And I got rid of Comey, and I got rid of a lot of people. I got rid of a lot of people. Thousands of people. At the VA, I cleaned it. 9,000 people. They were sadists. I got rid of them. But what they’ve done is bad.

With all of that being said, we have to unite the country, Phil. The country has to be united. This country is a mess.

PHIL MCGRAW: Every situation needs a hero. What a great opportunity for you to stop this cycle, this vicious cycle of gotcha, gotcha back, gotcha, gotcha back. Every situation needs a hero. What a great opportunity to step up and say, you know what? It stops here. It stops with me.

DONALD TRUMP: I think you’ll be impressed. We have to unite the country. We have to save the country. That’s not really saving the country. There are people that did some bad things. I know who they are and all of that. But as an example, with Hillary Clinton, I’d mention her name. Everyone’s screaming, thousands and thousands. Yeah, we just had 107,000 people show up in New Jersey. You saw that. 25,000 people showed up in the South Bronx. But we had Wildwood, New Jersey. 107,000 people. It’s a record. They’ve never had that. When I mention the name Hillary in the previous to the last election, they said, “Lock her up, lock her up, lock her up.” But I would be there, and I’ve turned to almost quite a number. They were going crazy.

Reflecting on Retribution and Success

How would it be I win and I lock Hillary Clinton up? The president’s wife, the former president’s wife, I locked her up. And how would it be if I took the Secretary of State, she was Secretary of State, and we threw her into a prison someplace? I think it was terrible. And yet now they’re trying to do that with me. Think of it. I didn’t want to do that. I could have done that pretty easily. She busted up her phones, and she busted up her laptops, and what they did, and they put bleach bit. You know what bleach bit is? It’s so expensive nobody uses it because it’s an acid, and it wipes everything out.

Could have done it real easy. Don’t forget, she disobeyed a subpoena from the United States Congress, and she broke up all this machinery, all this technology, after she got the subpoena. Think of it. How would it look if I took a president of the United States wife and threw her into a prison?

I hated it because I wanted to bring the country together, and I largely did. And I brought it together through success because it was the most successful economy in the history of our country. Okay. Now the difference is they’re trying to do it to me, and maybe you could feel differently about it, but I don’t feel differently. Retribution is going to be through success. We’re going to make it very successful. We have to bring the country together.

PHIL MCGRAW: And you can do that, because let me tell you, this revenge thing, there’s a lot of research, and Dr. James Kimmel at Yale has done this research and seen neurologically in the brain that there’s an addiction to revenge just like to opioid or whatever, and that even if people commit a crime and they get arrested for it, they see themselves as the victim and they want revenge against the person that arrested them.

And then the person that arrested them gets hammered, so now that person says, “Okay, well, I’m not going to put up with that,” so they go back after the criminal. Now the criminal has been victimized again, and so we get into this loop where we’re addicted to it back and forth. It’s got to stop, and we’re better than this. We must be better than this, and you’re big enough to do it. Every situation needs a hero. You can stop this. You can say, no, it is here. It ends with me.

DONALD TRUMP: I think you’ll be proud of the job we do. And the word revenge is a very strong word, but maybe we have revenge through success, but that’s what I’d like to see. I want to see the country survive, because this country is not going to survive like this. And really, you know, the expression, I think it’s the greatest theme ever in politics, because it’s the biggest movement. We want to make America great again, and that’s what we have to do. And I think you’ll be very proud of the job we do.

PHIL MCGRAW: You know, the Pope has a book out that he’s written, and he says, “We are all brothers and sisters, and there must be no resentment among us for any war to truly end. Forgiveness is necessary. Otherwise, what will follow is not justice, but revenge.” And that’s true even in the cultural wars that we’re fighting here. I think you have so much to do, you don’t have time to get even. You only have time to get right.

DONALD TRUMP: Well, revenge does take time, I will say that. And sometimes revenge can be justified, though I have to be honest. You know, sometimes it can.

Evaluating the Impact of Actions

PHIL MCGRAW: Is the country better or worse for them going after you?

DONALD TRUMP: I think the country is really worse for what they’ve done, and I think you see that when you look at the poll numbers. When you see that almost $400 million has poured in since this horrible decision was made. That was a few days ago. Numbers that nobody’s ever heard of in politics before. It’s a great honor. The people of our country get it. You know, they’re very smart, taken as a whole. I have to say, they’re very smart. But it’s been an honor being with you. It really has, and I think you’d be very proud of the job we do.

PHIL MCGRAW: You have rallied people. I had people in my focus group the other night that said, “I have not voted for Trump before, I have not been a Trump fan before, but I have donated to Trump because he has inspired me. I have donated to him, and I am voting for him now, and I have not before, but he has inspired me.”

DONALD TRUMP: Actually, it’s been a beautiful thing to watch.

PHIL MCGRAW: Thank you. Mr. President, it’s been an honor speaking with you.

DONALD TRUMP: Thank you very much. It’s a great honor. Thank you so much. Thank you. That may have been the longest interview I’ve ever done. And you think Biden could do that interview? I don’t think so. After about two questions, I think that would be the end of it. Anyway, this was crazy. It’s crazy. He wouldn’t do it. We covered a lot of territory, right?

PHIL MCGRAW: Do you think he’s going to run?

DONALD TRUMP: I have said no for a year. He said something yesterday that was very interesting. He should not be president, and it doesn’t matter who runs against him. When he said that, I said, “Ooh.” You know that, right? Did you hear that statement?

PHIL MCGRAW: I did.

DONALD TRUMP: He said it doesn’t matter who runs against him. With all that being said, people say, “Yes, he’s going to just run.”

PHIL MCGRAW: I guess so. Are you going to tell me who your vice presidential choice is?

DONALD TRUMP: I can’t yet, but we have some very good people. I’m going to do it in the convention. Come up during the convention. We’ll do an interview. I will. This was an honor to be here. Thank you, man.

PHIL MCGRAW: All right.

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