Read the full transcript of author, success coach, and public speaker Tony Robbins’ interview on The Dr. Jordan B. Peterson Podcast episode #517. (Jan 24, 2025)
Listen to the audio version here:
TRANSCRIPT:
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Hello, everybody. I had the opportunity today to sit down with Tony Robbins and in the remarkable basement of his house as well, and so that’s the setting. Tony and I have got to know each other over the last couple of years, and have had a number of discussions. Partly what we’ve been trying to puzzle out is our—what would you say?—the similarities between our parallel endeavors.
I mean, Tony’s, I suspect, he’s probably the most popular and impactful speaker, personal development speaker the world’s ever seen. I’m very fascinated by what he does, and I’ve seen his events. And I’ve reviewed some of the scientific literature pertaining to his achievements. That’s actually what we started our conversation with because Tony’s program has been subject to scientific scrutiny, and it seems to have remarkable antidepressant properties.
Discussing Life Strategies and Public Speaking
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And so I’m very interested, like Tony is, in how people chart their life course and how they establish their aim and how they determine their strategies and how they describe their conditions for fulfillment and what fulfillment is and how it can be sustained and how it can be self-improving and how it can be brought to other people. And so that’s really what we spent our time discussing.
I wanted to hear his thoughts on the matter and how he construed and conceptualized his approach and also what makes him such a compelling public speaker, how he prepares for that, how he relates to the audience, how he can sustain this energy for really remarkable periods of time because I found myself quite exhausted generally after about 3 hours of full-out public speaking, let’s say, because that’s a performance, and you got to be all in if you’re going to do it right. But Tony does that for, like, 12 hours a day for 4 days in a row, many, many times a month. And so I was curious about, well, his technique and how that was similar to mine and how it differed.
And so, well, we talked about all that. And I suppose what’s the core of it all? Well, I think the core of it, at least in part, is something akin to the old Nietzschean dictum that if you have a why, you can bear any how. And so Tony helps people discover the why, well, and the how for that matter, and that is definitely akin to what I’m attempting to do when I’m lecturing and writing.
And so, well, our discussion helped clarify that and flesh it out and make it more concrete and make it more accessible to people. And so you’re welcome to partake in that, and that’s what’s on the menu for today. So, Mr. Robbins, I’m going to start by reading something. Okay. Because you did something that is very rare.
Clinical Trial of Tony Robbins’ Program
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You submitted your process, your life improvement process, your public life improvement process to a clinical trial. So I’m going to read some pieces from the abstract of the paper that was published in consequence of that inquiry. So the paper is called “Effects of an Immersive Psychosocial Training Program on Depression and Well-being: A Randomized Clinical Trial.” So first thing I would say is clinical trials are extremely difficult to do.
I’ve always been highly impressed by any scientist, physician, psychiatrist, psychologist who will do a clinical trial because there are innumerable impediments. It’s hard to get subjects. It’s hard to specify the control group. It’s hard to get ethical clearance. It takes forever. People drop out. It’s very difficult to publish. Like, it’s generally a very thankless endeavor. And you did it along with the authors of this paper.
And so and the results are quite stunning. I’ll read a bit from the abstract. So for everybody watching and listening, every scientific paper has an abstract that essentially summarizes the findings so that if you’re doing a, say, a detailed overview of a given field, you can get the gist of things rapidly. And so the abstract summarizes the most important elements of the study.
Psychiatry stands to benefit from brief, nonpharmacological treatments that effectively reduce depressive symptoms, which are very common. To address this need, we conducted a single-blind randomized clinical trial. So people were assigned randomly to groups, which is a marker for a well-designed study, assessing how a 6-day immersive psychosocial training program, and that’s Tony Robbins’ program, followed by 10-minute daily psychosocial exercises for 30 days.
What’s a psychosocial exercise? Well, Tony will walk us through that. But it’s an exercise that’s designed to optimize psychological functioning, but also social functioning simultaneously because it’s very difficult to be healthy by yourself. And so you could think of mental health in particular, although also physical health, as a communitarian or collective endeavor. So and Tony definitely understands that.
Followed by 10-minute daily psychosocial exercises for 30 days improves depressive symptoms. 45 adults were block randomized by depression score to 2 arms, the immersive psychosocial training program and 10-minute daily exercise group, or a gratitude journaling group. So now the idea there was to not only assess whether Mr. Robbins’ program was an effective treatment for depression, but whether or not it was equally or more effective than another treatment that wasn’t pharmacological that had already been shown to be demonstrated through positive utility.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And a gratitude journal helps people focus on what’s positive in their life instead of what’s negative, and people who are depressed tend to be preoccupied with what’s negative. Depression severity improved over time with a significantly greater reduction in the psychosocial training program group. So that meant that Mr. Robbins’ intervention worked, about an 83% reduction in depression severity.
And by 6 weeks, virtually everybody in the intervention group showed remission in their symptoms. And, 6 weeks is a pretty decent length of trial because one of the complications with clinical trials is how long do you follow people?
Tony Robbins’ Approach and Program
TONY ROBBINS: Well, you took that complexity and made it equally complex. Thank you, sir. Thank you. I appreciate it. It was actually really simple. You know, I’ve been working with people. This is going to be my 48th year beginning now, across the world. I have the privilege of recognizing there are only so many patterns. While the brain has infinite complexity, it’s not completely complex in terms of the mind. And so, over the years, I’ve developed a series of processes to help people kind of develop what is their true north for them, not for me, and shift their values so that they’re naturally pulled in the direction of what they really want at this stage as opposed to what their conditioning has to do with.
And so as you well know, we don’t experience life. We experience life we focus on. In every moment, what’s wrong is always available, so is what’s right. And it’s not positive thinking. It’s about intelligence. If you’re in a lousy state, you don’t treat people better. You don’t perform better. You’re obviously not happier. So what we teach people is how to shift their focus, how to determine what values at this stage of your life are the ones that are most important to you that will pull you towards what you want.
I always look at motivation, and I don’t like the word motivation, but people overuse it. So I might as well use it because I’m not a motivator. I’m a strategist. But I also believe in the power of inspiring people, obviously, and having high energy. But, you know, there are 2 types of motivation, I’m sure you know. There’s push motivations. That’s where you’re using willpower and making yourself do it.
And, you know, Jordan, you have an enormous amount of willpower. My respect for you is through the roof, all that you’ve dealt with and all that you’ve done. And it’s how shaped who you are because you haven’t given up and moved forward. But there is a limit to willpower. I got a lot of willpower too. But there’s no limit to pull motivation. Pull motivation is where it’s something that you care about more than yourself, something that’s a magnificent obsession, something where you’re contributing. It could be your kids. It could be your family. But all that ties to the aim of your values that move you forward.
Date with Destiny Program
TONY ROBBINS: And so we have a 6-day process I do called Date with Destiny. And by the way, if your viewers ever want to get a feel for it, there’s a documentary on Netflix called “Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru” because I’m not here to be your guru. But it’ll give you, like, an hour and 45-minute walk-through, and it’s pretty dramatic.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And the name of it again?
TONY ROBBINS: Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru. It’s on Netflix. And you see me deal with people that are suicidal and turning them around. And then you see us follow-up 4 years later, so you see it last because most people wouldn’t take it last if you can make a change that quickly.
The Stanford Study
TONY ROBBINS: So how does that relate to the study? Well, 2 professors, as I understand it, we were approached by Stanford, and they said 2 of our professors had come here. They were clinically depressed, and they’re off medication, and all they did was go to this 6-day program. We don’t understand it. Do you have data on this? And I said, sure. I’ve got millions of testimonials. And then they said, no. No. No. The scientific data. I said, no. That’s not been my focus. My focus is just get results for people.
But if you want to do one, I’m open to it. What would you like to study? And they said, well, right now is the middle of COVID. And they said, you know, depression is through the roof. Suicide’s through the roof. Overdoses are through the roof. I said, I know. And they said, we’d love to test this nonpharmacological approach to it that you have and see what it really produces because this seems miraculous. And I said, well, it’s not miraculous. It’s just rewiring the way in which people perceive their world.
If I’m going to go do the Dakar race where I’m going to go, you know, 9,000 miles to the Sahara Desert, you can’t take the car you’re currently running and expect it. And you’re going to die in the desert. You need to have that car reengineered. So, for example, the exhaust can get above the sand. Well, we help people reengineer, and we don’t tell them what to do. We show them how to reengineer themselves so they have their own autonomy and ownership.
And I said, but tell me something. If we’re going to study this, what do the meta studies show? And the meta studies show that they said that 60% of the people who come for treatment, whether it’s drugs or therapy or both, 60% made no improvement. That’s the average. 40% improve overall. The average improvement is 50%. So I said, so they’re half as depressed as they were. They said, yes. Some people get well, but most people are on drugs for the rest of their lives.
And I said, you can almost do that with a placebo. And the guy had a nervous laugh, and he said, well, yeah, maybe. I said, well, I said, I’m sure it sounds like hubris, but I said, just based on history, I’m sure we’ll do better than that. I said, what’s the best study of all psychiatry you’ve ever seen in terms of wiping out these symptoms? And at the time, they said there was a study done at Johns Hopkins. You’re probably familiar with it. 5 years ago, where for a month, they gave people psilocybin, magic mushrooms, and cognitive therapy. And they said the results were the greatest in the history of psychiatry. At the end of 6 weeks, it was their evaluation. That group had 54% of the people had no symptoms whatsoever of depression.
I said, well, that’s a great standard. I said, I’d like to see us beat that. I said, again, it doesn’t sound, sounds like. It sounds like maybe arrogance. I’m not coming from that place. I just think our numbers will be significantly higher, but we’ll see. You design the program. So he designed it. As you said, they had a separate group that was just like they did for Johns Hopkins, you know, test group that didn’t have my work. They had gratitude journaling. They did various other things.
Results and Follow-up
TONY ROBBINS: And, the results were beyond their imagination. At the end of 6 weeks, after just going through a seminar, no drugs, no one-on-one therapy, just the rewiring for themselves, 93% of them had no symptoms whatsoever. It’s nothing like it has ever been done, and they’ve published it in the journal of psychiatry.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Do you have any idea? Has there been any longer-term follow-up of—
TONY ROBBINS: There has been. So—
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Oh, there has. Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. And 7% of the people still improve, but they didn’t completely eliminate their symptoms. But here’s the best part. 19% came in with suicidal ideation, 0 suicidal ideation afterwards, which is what I’ve seen over and over over the decades. So they followed up a year later, and they found 52% increase in positive emotions, 71% decrease in negative emotions a year later. And now they’ve done additional studies.
Follow-up Studies and Engagement
TONY ROBBINS: They just did a 1-year study with 1500 people. So you can appreciate this. Oh, that’s right. Like, a biggest study you can imagine. 750 in each group. And this one is on engagement in business and in life. Because right now, since COVID, the engagement levels have gone through the floor. You’re probably familiar with it. They have 3 measurements. 1 is, you know, are you engaged?
And engagement equals EBITDA or equals profit in companies. You can see a direct relationship. Right? Then there’s those that are disengaged. That would be what people started calling quiet quitting, where they’re doing the minimum they need to.
And then there’s actively disengaged, which is actually people who are angry and they’re just trying to hurt the company when they say it’s wrong. That’s not good. That’s definitely not good. Since COVID, the drop in engagement is the biggest drop in the history of ever any form of measurement around the world. In addition, the largest increase is in active disengagement.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Well, people’s trust was violated.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: They were angry.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. And so, they did a group, and they haven’t posted it. It’ll come out shortly, but I can give you the broad strokes that I’m not so excited about is they eliminated all of the disengagement that had been driven by 4 years of isolation in 6 days. And then the best part was without any more interaction with me every month, there was them for a year, they increased in their engagement.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Oh, really?
TONY ROBBINS: Because what’s happened is now the hunger has awakened in them. They now have a sense of control over their own life and life.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Authors? A different group?
TONY ROBBINS: Some of the same authors.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Some of the same group as well. UCLA?
TONY ROBBINS: And that big a difference in group size.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. Because one of the criticisms of the study obviously was that it was a — there was a small number of people.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. Yes. But not small by most averages as you know. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So well, clinical studies are very, very difficult to do.
TONY ROBBINS: Exactly.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So it’s very easy to criticize a study for having a small number, but it’s very difficult to run a better study.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. Right. Right.
Teaching Style and Biochemistry
TONY ROBBINS: They’ve also done a study where a separate one that they published in a different journal that I can get to you, which was about the teaching style. Because what they wanted to figure out is Right. How Yes. How does this work? So I’ll tell you what they uncovered.
There’s a separate group that have been working with them and had worked, measuring my body on stage because I do immersion events. So I think you know 4 days, 15, 20000 people in stadium, 12, 13 hours a day. And when COVID happened and they shut everything down, I wanted to still help people, so I built a studio because I kept every stadium in the world was shut down. And I started doing with people in their homes.
So the first thing I did is during those first three and a half years before COVID, they had been measuring me. So they had me wear this $75,000 old device that measures everything. They take my saliva and my blood at every break. And they found a whole crazy set of statistics. Like, you know, I’ve burned 11,300 calories on stage in a day. I didn’t think that was possible, but consistently, that’s my average.
Chess masters, Jordan, I guess, burn about 3500 to 4000 not moving. And so before I even get on stage, I burn about 3500. I jump a 1000 times. I’m standing here. I’m going out of the crowd. I’m running up. I keep the stadium engaged. Most people won’t sit for a 3-hour movie.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Watching a toddler play.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, no. I mean, I’m serious about that. Serious about that. Because if you think about it, people spend $300,000,000 on a movie and go past 3 hours, and you lost everybody. Right?
TONY ROBBINS: You’re just paying attention spans. We got people there. We do the digital program now, and we’ll start at 10 AM here in Palm Beach. And we have people from 193 countries, every country in the world. So let’s say Australia, we start here at 10 AM. It’s already midnight there. They go from midnight to 1 in the afternoon for 4 straight days and nights, and we lose 6% of the people on average. It’s mind-boggling. We have figured out how to keep people engaged.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. So so it’s compelling and it’s long-lasting.
TONY ROBBINS: And then here’s here’s the thing. Why why does it work? So they measure all these things in my body, and then they discovered something else. If you know Tom Brady or, the Tampa Bay Lightning, that’s won multiple championships in the NHL, they studied these people.
They found something called what they call the championship biochemistry. And you’d appreciate this. Every time I get on stage and the same thing that Tom Brady’s down by 10 points as I’m sure you’ve seen in the Super Bowl, and he’s got 2 minutes to finish, and somehow he comes back to win. He all these people that including myself, have this explosion of testosterone. I mean, it looks literally like jumping up a hill.
And normally with testosterone, as I’m sure you know, cortisol comes, the stress hormone as well. Cortisol drops off the cliff. So all you get is this incredible focus and drive, plus you remember things, which is why they think it has such cognition that lasts a year later. Because if I ask you where were you on 9/11, every person here, not even American, can tell you where they were sitting, what was around them, what was going on. Ask them where they’re on 8/11, we have no clue.
Because information without the emotion doesn’t have any lasting impact. So that’s sort of like the biochemistry of a very enhanced flow state.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Very much so. Lasting a long time.
TONY ROBBINS: Very much so.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And you’re modeling that in an embodied form.
TONY ROBBINS: And then and we’re mirroring that.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You got it.
TONY ROBBINS: Then they’re doing mirror neurons. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Mirror neurons.
Mirror Neurons and Audience Engagement
TONY ROBBINS: So they first, they did this with me, and they said this is incredible. And the level I could sustain it was something that blew them away for the amount of time. Because normally, it’s something somebody does for 20 minutes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Minutes or an hour.
TONY ROBBINS: But the best part is then they started measuring my live audiences. And then when COVID happened, they put people in 10 different countries and measured people there in real time. And then they showed it up, and it looks like music. Because yeah. As you know, with mirror neurons, if you saw some people rowing and you’re empathetic or connected, you actually feel that to some extent in your body. Why do you think that would be, obviously?
Well, these people, their energy, their explosion of testosterone, the drop off of cortisol, and that is why they believe it has that lasting impact. But they did a study with, one of the top professors at Stanford teaching my exact content. That was the comparison group.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: And saw what the measurements were afterwards versus mine. And the difference was for the first I think it was 3 weeks on that one, almost a month. There was a nice increase, like 30% increase, more than you would expect. He’s one of the top professors there. But mine was 350%, and it lasted 6 months and then 12 months. And the difference was wasn’t the content. It’s what we did with our biochemistry.
So it’s about rewiring yourself. You can think of it and then you can go to the I modeled that with my body, my voice, and everything else, and they do it. And when you do a the other thing of it is we’re using immersion. So I don’t I could have a lot easier job by going there for 4 or 5 hours and doing it. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: The immersion is when you go 13 hours.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: There’s a different change in your body and your biochemistry. Well, the beautiful thing is you get to see that lasting impact because people know how to ignite it themselves. It’s not like see that you can do it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, they–
TONY ROBBINS: So I got a funny story. Here’s what they experiencing. Here’s the point. I’m really think it’s important.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: A belief is a poor substitute for an experience.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. Definitely.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? Definitely.
So I give them the experience of it over and over again, and they get wired. And now it’s like, I’m hungry. I want to do more of this in my life, and that’s why it has such lasting impact. And I knew we would, but I–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: I didn’t go out for the study. They came to me. Now they’re doing another one. They’re doing a 3rd to 4th study. So they’re just fascinated by the results. However, that was published in the Journal of Psychiatry 2 years ago. Not one phone call from anyone about how to implement that with themselves.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. You covered the cover of Newsweek.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? 2 years ago, I’m sure you saw it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So it’s hooked on hype.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. And it talks about the meta studies now show that no SSRIs, they don’t work. And they’re no better than sugar pills, but we still give them to 43,000,000 Americans over and over again with all the side effects they have. So that’s it’s part of the culture that we’re in, unfortunately. But we’re just working to the people that are hungry and want to shift, we provide them opportunity. I don’t pretend to be the end all and be all for everybody, but it works. And people who’ve been through it know it works. It’s been them telling their friends for decades, and now we have the science to back it up.
Evolutionary Connections
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So I’ve got a story to tell you and then a bunch of questions.
TONY ROBBINS: Great.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So I know this biologist, Derek Cooper. And, we did a podcast together. He’s very interesting thinker. And he’s spent a fair bit of time looking at dopaminergic functioning and relating that in part to insect behavior, bees in particular. So I want to tell you something funny about bees. And the reason I’m outlining this is because the biochemical principles that you describe are extremely fundamental.
TONY ROBBINS: Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: They’re they’re echoed throughout the living kingdom.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: All the way down to the insect level.
TONY ROBBINS: Wow.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Because it’s ancient circuitry.
TONY ROBBINS: Okay.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So–
TONY ROBBINS: Only you would have this kind of information.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well well, I did I did a lot of I did a lot of studies of animal behavior when I was trying to figure out human motivation.
TONY ROBBINS: Okay.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? And if you can find extremely distal connections.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It means you’ve found something very profound because it’s been conserved over evolutionary history.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: For maybe 100 of 1000000 of years.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
Evolutionary Connections in Communication
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So you know you’re onto something that’s extremely fundamental.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And you can tell that in the story that you described because it’s reflected in hormonal changes.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So bees communicate about sources of value. So bees go out and they forage kind of randomly. And then if they find a good storehouse of value, which is like a flower bed that’s not too far away.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And that’s rich.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Then they go back and they dance. And they indicate by the quality of their dance where the flowers are, but also how much energy needs to be expended to get there, but how much energy they will be acquired in consequence of the voyage. Okay? And they do that in part by intensity and duration of dance.
TONY ROBBINS: Wow.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. So now imagine what they’re doing. You see what they’re doing. So it costs the bee to expend energy.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? So if another bee watches the bee that’s communicating, expending energy, the lesson is something like this bee is so convinced that that energy source is worthy of investigation that it’s willing to risk expending energy.
TONY ROBBINS: Mhmm.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: To communicate about it.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So so and I feel like a bee right now. Just so you know.
TONY ROBBINS: Well, exactly. That gets the other bees excited.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: But but it’s a but it’s it’s not as you said, it’s an experience and not a it’s not a it’s not an argument.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s like the bee is demonstrating, but it’s willing to sacrifice its energy.
TONY ROBBINS: Mhmm.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That the end goal is worth the attainment. Okay? So that’s that’s very much analogous to what you’re doing on stage.
TONY ROBBINS: True.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Because you’re expanding you said right at the beginning, you’re expanding 11,000 calories in an 11 hour period, and you’re able to maintain it.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So people watch that, and they think, well, they think they see and this is at this at a level that’s so primordial that even insects can do it. They see that you’re willing to risk a tremendous expenditure of energy over a very long time to communicate a particular pattern of perception.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And so that’s convincing because it’s an it’s what would you say? It’s an existence proof.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
Pull Motivation vs Push Motivation
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: K. Now you said some other things that are extremely interesting that I think are worth delving into. So you talked about pull motivation.
TONY ROBBINS: So versus push.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Versus push. So pull motivation is positive emotion. It’s the manifestation of the same dopaminergically mediated positive emotion that indicates the existence of a valuable store of treasure.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And so that’s kind of a quest issue. It’s like so we’re wired so that we feel enthusiasm when we see ourselves moving towards a valuable goal.
TONY ROBBINS: Mhmm.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. Now you’re you and then then you said some other things very carefully. You said you’re not a guru. And what that means in, at in part, is that you’re encouraging people to believe that there is a goal and that goals are worthwhile, but they have to come up with the goals themselves.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And right.
TONY ROBBINS: Well, that’s all that’s free life on their terms, not mine.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Absolutely. Well, it’s partly because they need to establish their own conditions for satisfaction, and they have to do that in consequence of their own contemplation.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
The Spirit of Calling and Adventure
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You know, and by the way, I mean, you have a copy of my book here, “We Arrested with God.” One of the ways that God is characterized, and I described this in the book, is as the spirit of calling. Right?
TONY ROBBINS: Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. There there’s 2 primary characterizations of God in the biblical writings. There’s more than 2, but there’s 2 primary characterizations. 1 is the spirit of calling and adventure. So that’s exemplified in the story of Abraham, for example.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And the other is as the voice of conscience. And that spirit of adventure that’s associated with this pull motivation.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Now It’s the hero’s journey. It’s the that it’s the hero’s journey.
TONY ROBBINS: Now Yeah. Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Although the hero’s journey also incorporates element of conscience.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? And there’s a there’s a push element to that that’s.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Probably worth discussing as well. Push though. It’s like You’re unconscious. Says, here’s the path.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And conscience warns you when you’re deviating from it.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s a reason. That’s a mistake. You. No one on earth can do what you do and do the depth of analysis you do to take a Pinocchio story and turn that in our typical study of personal evolution and archetype. I mean, I’m thinking about when you said consciousness, the buzz buzzing you and your your conscience. You know?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s like, you blow me away. I think you’re a treasure, Jordan. I just want to say it. No.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Thank you.
TONY ROBBINS: I think you’re one of the gifts to this world. Please continue, but I just love the way your brain goes into these.
The Role of Aim in Perception and Emotion
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, it it’s really worth given the framework that you’re using, it’s really under worthwhile understanding this technically.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So here here’s here’s a way of of thinking structurally about the process that you outlined. Okay. So the first thing to understand is that people see the world through their aim.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: K? And I mean that literally.
TONY ROBBINS: I I understand.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: When you when you see the when you hear the story of someone’s life, you actually hear a description of their aim.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So now you specify the aim. Now the first thing that happens perceptually, and you talked about perception. The first thing that happens is that once you specify the aim, the pathway appears.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s how your perceptual systems work.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And the reason for that is, well, if you can’t see your way to get where you’re going, then what good is it to see?
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Okay. You specify the aim, the pathway occurs. Well, that’s the precondition for a quest.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. Now the next thing that happens so the pathway occurs. The next thing that happens is that sets the frame for emotional experience. So now everything that you encounter as an obstacle on that pathway elicits negative emotion. And everything that you encounter that facilitates movement forward.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Evokes positive emotion. So one of the corollaries of that is no aim, no positive emotion.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. No hope. No enthusiasm.
TONY ROBBINS: I call it I call it the when you look at people that are depressed or even people who just not where they want to be, they have no compelling future.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. Anyone anyone can deal with a difficult today if they have a compelling tomorrow.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
The Importance of Vision in Leadership
TONY ROBBINS: And so when people think about our country. Our country has just gone through a period regardless I’m I’m an independent. I’m not I voted on both sides of the aisle, so this is not a political statement. But if I asked you, what has been the vision for this country in the last 4 years, last 8 years even, to somehow pay off our debt, to make it through these times, to no one has got a clear vision as opposed to look at a Democrat and a Republican. Kennedy got up and talked about, in this decade, we’re going to put a man on the Earth and return him safely.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. The city on the hill with Reagan. You could pick it doesn’t matter which person, but they both had a vision.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Unified America for a period of time, created an optimism. Now you’re starting to feel not everybody, obviously, because it’s left and right. But a lot of people are now I don’t care if it’s republican or democrat. Give me somebody competent. Give me somebody to get results. And there’s an excitement about change because things have not happened. There seems to be more of a compelling future, especially in a healthier area.
You and I are both passionate about it, right, with Bobby Kennedy and the army of people that, you know, were attacked during COVID who are telling the truth, and now they’re going to be in charge. So the world is shifting.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: But but I really think it’s important for your listeners or viewers to understand because I think you and I couldn’t be more aligned. A compelling future is everything.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: Because without that, you can have an aim, by the way, but if it’s not compelling, it’s not going to do much.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, and you demonstrate in in the physiology of your.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Lectures.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: The the fact that that that compelling aspect is possible and real.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? And.
TONY ROBBINS: But I also get them to experience it once again. If they just watch me, they’re you know, like, I’m I’m not here to be their more more model examples. I’m not here to be your guru. I’m here to be a friend. I have some insights. You have insights. We can learn from each other. Right?
Energy and Consciousness
TONY ROBBINS: But the idea of getting in a state of mind where you’re in a heightened state of consciousness because your energy increases. Think about it. When your energy drops, usually negative thoughts grow with that pretty massively. Right? Self negative thoughts, thoughts about society.
As you raise the energy level, it’s like plugging into a computer. You have the greatest computer but enough electricity. But if there’s full electricity, there’s power there. And most of us have gotten adjusted to a level of energy, especially post COVID, that we don’t even realize because we’re like fish and water. It has dropped massively.
When I walk around in a company. That’s why engagement became so important to me. There’s just not the same level of engagement, and no one’s trying to deliberately do it. They were conditioned for 4 years to sit still in front of a computer and do anything, and many people before that weren’t doing anything. It just magnified it.
But when the energy increases, that’s my first job, your consciousness increases with that frequency of intensity. When you said memory.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: Well, there’s a physiological explanation for that.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So dopamine does 2 things. It produces that feeling of enthusiasm.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s why people take cocaine, for example, or most of the drugs have abused that are stimulants.
TONY ROBBINS: Right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So it produces that feeling of reward, but that’s not all it does. So imagine that imagine that there’s a positive outcome and that produces some enthusiasm. Okay. Now imagine that there’s a chain of neurological events that led up to that positive outcome.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: K. What dopamine does is encourage the neural systems that were active just before that positive event occurred to grow.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So now that’s You’re wired. You’re creating more wiring.
TONY ROBBINS: And and you’re strengthening you’re strengthening whatever connections we’re used to.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So dial up to, you know, you know, a higher level. If you’re if you’re increasing the energy and you’re and you’re simultaneously getting people to configure their goals and those two things are happening at the same time, that should increase the probability that the goals that they adopt will be instantiated permanently permanently into memory. And then it’s also not exactly the kind of memory that you would call to mind to talk about. It’s the kind of memory that you see the world through.
Understanding Procedural Memory
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. That’s different. That’s that’s procedural memories. Completely different kind of memory.
TONY ROBBINS: I get it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s it’s the kind of memory that so let’s say you practice applying a certain framework of interpretation to your circumstances.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. That that practice reconfigures procedural memory. And that’s literally the that’s rewiring of the system through which you view the world.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s correct. Right. Right. And when you have a new view of the world, you you come up with new meanings. And meanings, as you know, we both know you do maps of meaning.
My entire life has been, you know, I remember reading Man’s Search for Meaning. I’m actually making the film. And, it was one of the books that influenced me the most because the ability to find meaning even in the most difficult time. And Victor Frankl to me is just a godsend to this planet.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. It’s a great book. It’s crazy. I haven’t read it. Please, whoever you’re listening, read it. Or you have anybody’s ever heard of it. It’s Man’s Search For Meaning. Just read that book. It’s incredible. But the point is, your meanings change, your focus and your meaning change when your energy shifts.
And so it’s so fundamental to bring that energy up, but most people have no reference for it in their body. You know, if you go to our concert, I remember, Pat Riley came to one of our who, you know, owns a piece of Miami Heat. He was an amazing coach. If you’re not familiar with the NBA basketball, of the winningest coach in history. Good friend of mine known him for 30 years.
And he came to one of our programs. He said, Tony, this is like the 7th game of the NBA championship, but it goes on for 4 days. It’s 13 hours a day. You know?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right.
The Importance of Immersion and Practice
TONY ROBBINS: So that vibrancy, and most people at the game are cheering at times and not. This is an experience in your body. That’s why I do the number of hours. That’s why it’s immersion. That’s why it’s multiple days, 4 days or 6 days, and that’s why it has the lasting impact. But you’re right. The dopamine circuits are actually creating what’s the white matter in your brain? The myelin. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Creating the myelin. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. They they take them to myelin.
TONY ROBBINS: A great athlete, you know, like, you know, people look at somebody that, like, you know, I’m fortunate enough to own a piece of several sporting teams. So one of them is the Golden State Warriors. And you look at Steph Curry, the greatest 3rd 3 point shooter in the world. And people look at him, and he goes and he shoots the ball from, like, almost half court, and he’s jumping on the side of his mouthpiece. And he doesn’t even wait till he go. He turns and smiles, And he knows, and then all of a sudden the crowd goes wild and it goes through. It’s like, it looks like impossible.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: But where did that impossible come from? He built the myelin over and over and over again, so it’s hardwired.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Exactly.
TONY ROBBINS: He knows exactly what they did and how do you do that. This is the part that we all forget. I always tell people, when you see people who are amazing in public, they’re being rewarded in public for what they’ve practiced massively in private.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: So here’s his plan. Just take 15 years in the NBA, that’s all he’s been there. Greatest 3 point shooter history, nobody even close if you’re not familiar with the NBA. He practices 500 shots a day, every day, 7 days a week, bar none. That’s 3500 shots a week. So a 168,000 shots a month. 2,520,000 shots.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: Not forget his college career, just in his professional career so that he can make 3310 3 point shots to be the greatest in history. That’s that’s a 1 tenth of 1 percent of the time was compared to his practice.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. The wiring in him is so powerful, but it doesn’t just show up. Hope and excitement are wonderful things, but you need competency as well. In order to have that, the hope can get you started, give you the drive, the vision, the aim, but you’ve got to have the execution here, both the strategy, and you’ve got to have the execution and process.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. Okay. So nervous. Okay. So let’s talk about that because you talked about eliciting motivation over a long period of time. So I’d like to know more about–
TONY ROBBINS: Or I would say the word if I may, drive. Because motivation is the reason I use it, it’s like a warm bath. You should probably take a bath, but it doesn’t last.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
TONY ROBBINS: You should still do it. But drive is like everyone is motivated. Even if you’re overweight, you’re motivated to eat. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Come on.
TONY ROBBINS: I want to find out what drives you because if we unleash your–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: What drives you towards the the right age? That’s right. What is it that that will–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Unleash you? That’s what this experience is about. That’s different than just being motivated.
The Future Authoring Exercise
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So so let’s walk okay. So I have an exercise that that people can do online called future authoring. And one of its steps at I’d like you to tell me how this compares to what you’re doing in your seminars, in your events. So it’s it’s a conditions of satisfaction exercise, or it’s a it’s a meditation and contemplation exercise, or it’s a prayer. You could think of all the or a request for revelation. But here’s the here’s the idea. So it’s, you can imagine for a moment that you could have what you wanted and needed in 5 years.
TONY ROBBINS: Mhmm.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. But there’s a condition. You have to know what it is, and you have to specify it. Okay. Now the then the question would be, well, how are you going to discover that? And the answer is you ask yourself. It’s like, okay. Like, what what would it’s it’s like the Victor Frankl scenario. Even hypothetically, what would get me out of bed in the morning on a very, very difficult day?
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Like, what could I imagine–
TONY ROBBINS: I’m telling you, what I’m going to do get you up early.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: That you have to make you fully alive.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Well, what would make you persevere in times of trouble?
TONY ROBBINS: Exactly. Even a more direct question. Okay. So by the way, I find tell me it’s the same for you.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s not just the aim or objective it’s strong enough reasons. In other words, somebody say, I want to make a $1,000,000,000, but I don’t do it. And then even vision to get excited about a $1,000,000, whatever it is. I want to have 3 perfect children. I want to write a book. Whatever. The secret is reasons come first, answers come second. Once I know what I want, I got to figure out why.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: Because purpose is stronger than object. So the object may inspire you, but what’s going to keep you going is strong enough reasons when it’s tough. What are the reason okay. I want this money. For what?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, I want to provide a home for my mom. Well, that’s very different than I just want to have this–
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Pieces of paper with pictures of dead people on it.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? And Yes. People say, I want money. I don’t want money. They want an emotion. They want an impact. They want security or they want freedom or they want to be able to contribute or they want to do something they think money will give them more choices on.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
TONY ROBBINS: They want the money. So I’m always trying to dig underneath to figure out what is the–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. That’s the substructure.
TONY ROBBINS: Exactly.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Okay. Surface desire.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. And many people focus on the surface desire, not knowing enough reasons to follow through. That’s why New Year’s resolutions don’t work. 91% of them, I don’t know what the latest statistic is. People don’t follow through after 3 weeks. By the time they’re hearing us speak, if they have New Year’s resolutions, they’re gone.
Because they don’t have the reasons to push through, they don’t have the strategy. It’s wonderful if you say, I want to see a sunset. But if your strategy start running east as fast as you can, I don’t give a damn how positive you are? It’s not going to work.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? So it’s a combination of that aim, those values that drive you’re not talking about that ignite enough reasons for it and then the strategies to execute because you’ll eventually find your way there. But the speed at which you do it is if I believe in modeling. I believe success leaves clues. My original teacher, Jim Rohn, taught me that.
Modeling Success and Finding Pathways
TONY ROBBINS: He said, if someone is successful with anything, they’ve got a great relationship and it’s 20 years down the line and they still do it. Or they lost weight and kept off for 10 10 years. Or they went from nothing to not just making money, but sustaining financial security and freedom for their family. They’re not lucky. They’re doing something different than you are.
So instead of you trial and trial and error, which is standard way in which we learn, you find the pathway to power by finding someone who’s done it consistently and produce results. That obsession within me has launched most of the books I’ve written, most things I’ve done. It’s like, I want to know what you know, this book was how do I help people with the best breakthroughs and health, for example, life force and energy.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: They take 17 years to go from the breakthrough time to your clinician. Like, how do I shorten that up? I’m going to interview a 150 of the most brilliant regenerative doctors in the world, Nobel Prize winners, and find out what they’re doing, give it to you right now. Or I’m going to finance. Well, I can talk to you finance about what I think, or I can go interview 50 of the smartest financial people in the history of the world that are alive today and find out what do they do. And while they’re different, I look for what are the common strategies, elements.
What what is guiding this? And then I can teach that my billionaire client goes, this is incredible. And the average person goes, this is incredible. Because, it’s about it’s very much what you do. It’s finding the pathway. It’s finding the DNA. It’s finding the codex of how to go from where you are to where you want to be. But it is more than just the aim that’ll start you.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s you’ve got to have the purpose or the reasons or your purpose. If it’s somebody else’s purpose or reasons won’t work–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s not going to work.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. And then you need the strategies too because that’ll give you the drive. And you will figure it out if you or you if you can discipline your disappointment. If you can push yourself beyond what most people give up on, you’re going to get there eventually. You’re going to keep flexing. But you’ll get there 10 times faster if you can say, wow. There’s already a pathway that’s been proven. Why would I reinvent the wheel? I’ll still bring myself to it, my own uniqueness to it.
But there’s certain fundamentals that if you do them, you’re going to have economic abundance. If you don’t, you’re going to have pain. There’s–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s actually perfect.
TONY ROBBINS: Great relations.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Pardon me?
TONY ROBBINS: That’s the purpose of stories.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s exactly right. Okay. So you said something that I think we could delve into technically too. Okay. So you said a name isn’t sufficient. It’ll get you started. Okay. And then you said you have to have reasons. Okay. So let’s think that through for a minute.
Multidimensional Analysis and Aligning Motivations
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So one of the things we do in this program that helps people rewire their aim is do a multidimensional analysis. And we step people through that. It’s like, okay. Now you’ve sort of figured out what you would want and need if you could have it.
TONY ROBBINS: Mhmm.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: But let’s let’s flesh that out so you could say, well, how would that positively affect your intimate relationship, your marriage?
TONY ROBBINS: Right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? How would that possibly affect your family? How would it affect your community?
TONY ROBBINS: So you’re making me come up with reasons.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. You can have other consequences. Well, then you could imagine this too. You could imagine that, like, in some ways, we’re loose connect we’re loose constellations of multiple motivations.
TONY ROBBINS: Mhmm.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And you want to meld those all together so they’re serving the same to pull.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. That’s what–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And then and then you’re not supposed to being pulled apart.
TONY ROBBINS: Exactly. I want I want to be totally successful and never be rejected.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. If you’re going to be successful on a social scale, you know, that’s not possible. And so if you have those two conflicts, you’re going to take 2 steps forward and 3 back. And that’s what we do with people. We have them reengineer the values so they pull you forward as opposed pull you apart.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: Because most of us have so many conflicts.
The Importance of Clarity and Resolving Inner Conflicts
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s a lack of clarity usually.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? There’s not a clear aim. There’s not enough reasons.
TONY ROBBINS: Yep. Poor strategy, but, ultimately, what really stops people and what I do with people in events is I find the inner conflict.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. Definitely.
TONY ROBBINS: The inner conflict is what’s keeping them from executing.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Means they’re actually living out multiple stories so meaninglessly, and they don’t have the same aim.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. And that’s okay too. It doesn’t have to all be the same story, but there has to be some unifying element to what matters most to you for you live an extraordinary quality of life. Again, life on your terms. What you think is that 3 children? Is that writing a book? Is that building a business? Is that all the above? I don’t know.
TONY ROBBINS: K.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So It’s got to be on your terms.
Biblical Stories and High-Order Goals
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So one of the things I discovered when I was walking through the biblical stories is there the the book itself is structured in a manner that’s analogous to the pattern that you just described. So what happens in the biblical stories is that a sequence of stories are put forward that each circulate around a a form of high order goal. So I’ll give you an example. So in the story of Noah, for example, the voice of the divine in the story of Noah is characterized as the intuition that calls the wise to prepare when trouble is brewing.
Right? So that’s god for Noah because Noah is described as a man who’s wise in his generation. So he’s the sort of person you’d go to for advice. And his ability to intuit is well developed in consequence of his practice of wisdom, and everyone recognizes that. And now he has a powerful revelation or intuition that all hell’s about to break loose, and he should take appropriate steps. And that’s his faith in god. But god in that the highest goal, you might say, in that story is this intuition of the wise to prepare in the face of disaster. Okay. That’s very different than the god that makes himself manifest to Abraham.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So Abraham is someone who’s resting on his laurels and who’s privileged at the beginning of the story. His parents are wealthy, and there’s no reason for him to lift a finger. And he comes god comes to him as the voice of adventure. And god says to him it’s very it’s very cool. This is the covenant, by the way.
And I I I’m sure you’ll see the relationship between this and what you’re doing in your seminars. God comes to Moses as a spirit adventure, and he and he offers him a bargain, which is the covenant. He says, if you leave your zone of comfort, if you move away from your father’s tent, if you move away from what’s familiar to you, and you do that voluntarily and you make the sacrifices necessary as a consequence, this is what will happen.
TONY ROBBINS: If you’ve processed long enough because it took you, like, 98 to have this for skin.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But but he definitely he didn’t get happy. He just kept moving forward. It didn’t matter if he made mistakes. He kept moving in the right direction.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. And that’s partly the element of his fate. Okay. So the deal is your life will become a blessing to you.
TONY ROBBINS: So that’s that antidepressant.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Phenomena that we’re describing.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So instead of living in misery, you’ll live in something approximating hope and security.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? Okay. That’s the first part of the deal. The second part is your name will become renowned among other people and you’ll deserve it.
TONY ROBBINS: Mhmm.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So that’s a good deal because people want social status and they want the security and the capacity to cooperate and compete peacefully that goes along with that. It’s a fundamental. It might even be the fundamental human aim, but it it it’s at least our fundamental human aim. That’s number 2. Number 3 is it’ll give you your best shot at establishing something of multi generational permanence.
TONY ROBBINS: Right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? So that’s a good deal because, you know, one of the things that people want when they search for what’s meaningful is that they say, well, I’d like to do something that lasts or matters.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes, it does.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Okay. So that’s the third thing. And the fourth thing is you’ll do it in a way that’ll be of a benefit to everyone else. So it’s not a zero sum game.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And so what it’s so cool, this story, because what it does is align the calling of adventures. So that would be that calling or pull with those four outcomes. Okay. But then there’s a meta move in the–
TONY ROBBINS: Which gives you more re which gives you more reasons because we’ll always–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Of course.
TONY ROBBINS: We’ll always do more for those we love than we will for ourselves.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s right. That’s the beauty of being human. That’s humanity at its best.
TONY ROBBINS: Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. That’s why you want to think through if you do have a name, what the benefit would be to the people that you love and to your community.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right. Because it anchors it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. The the meta claim in the juxtaposition of these narratives, this is so cool, is that the voice that tells the wise to prepare in the time of crisis and the call to adventure are manifestations of the same distal goal.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So you could imagine that the ultimate uniting goal brings all the underlying potential stories together.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And then that’s developed through the biblical corpus. And in the New Testament, that’s fleshed out completely because the claim in the New Testament is something like the embodiment of the spirit that’s characterized in multiple ways in the Old Testament is made manifest as the willingness for voluntary self sacrifice in service of the highest goal.
And that’s what’s acted out in the passion story. And that seems to me to be precisely accurate is that there’s that because you said yourself earlier, you know, that a goal that is only serving your own, so to speak, narrow and proximal motives isn’t one that’s going to last. It has to be anchored in multiple ways, and it has to be worthwhile. But there is this insistence that I think this is the monotheistic hypothesis actually is that the there is a distal aim that unites all subordinate aims. And if you can ally yourself with that, you become something approximating an unstoppable force.
TONY ROBBINS: A 100%. That’s where all the energy comes from.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. Because there there’s so much I look at it this way. You can call it god. You can call it life. Whatever you I prefer god, but still, life supports whatever supports more life. So as an individual with my own goals, what take your bees.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: The bumblebee could be selfishly going after just the nectar for itself, if you want to call that selfish. But then what attaches to its legs is pollen, and that’s why it’s more flowers.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
TONY ROBBINS: So there’s a certain amount of benefit by anyone’s individual desires, desire of the father.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? You know, it’s like with that desire is the ability to fulfill it if you can persist and and discover. But I found that I believe that when your desire is to serve something more than yourself, first of all, you get out of yourself, so there’s no more of the internal anxieties of people. That’s for sure. You’re not there.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, those are right. You know that that concern thoughts of yourself and neurotic suffering are so closely allied statistically that you can’t separate them.
TONY ROBBINS: I’ve–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So if you were thinking about your narrow self–
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s an aggressive that’s the definition of misery.
TONY ROBBINS: A hundred percent.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s mine. Amazing. Mine is it’s distorting, deleting, and generalize. It’s in a reduction system so that all this input doesn’t overwhelm us. So what happens, that reduction system makes us not see, not experience some aspects of life.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Feel so I said, we don’t experience life. We experience life we focus on.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s our job to direct the focus, but then have enough reason to follow through on that focus and then have enough emotional fuel. I mean, think of it this way. It’s the difference between knowing something intellectually and having it in your nervous system.
Levels of Understanding and Mastery
TONY ROBBINS: Mastery starts with cognitive understanding.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Cognitive understanding is like $3, you know, the $3 will almost get you a Starbucks. You know, no one cares. It won’t do anything.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
TONY ROBBINS: But if you go from that to emotional understanding, which is consequence you’re describing, where I start to learn that if I do this, it gives me this pain. If I do this, it gives me this pleasure. Now I’m going to apply more of what I’ve learned. Well, my goal is to get down to physical mastery where it’s so in your body memory level.
And and that’s what you’re able to do with immersion of the yesterday.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s right. Because you don’t have to think about it anymore. It just happens.
TONY ROBBINS: When I went to drive a 6 shift car the first time, I don’t know your experience, but mine was overwhelming. The guy teased me because I’m like, I’m supposed to do this and this and this and watch the road too. It’s never going to happen. But sure enough, you get in your nervous system with enough repetition, enough emotional reward, and then all of a sudden it’s in your body. And now you can do 12 other things. Hopefully, you’re not texting, but you can do it all.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s what people meant by character development.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: A character development is the development of those procedural habits that shape perception itself.
TONY ROBBINS: A 100%.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? And it’s not the same as propositional knowledge.
TONY ROBBINS: I agree.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s the knowledge that you can discuss.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it does require and so you’re now let me ask you about–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: But I want to finish something. You said that I want to I’m I’m going to I haven’t done your process. I want to do this. I’ve what what do you call the process you described?
TONY ROBBINS: Future authoring.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And you are getting to think of reasons.
TONY ROBBINS: So the only thing I would add to that if I could if I was able to add my 2¢–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Is all it’s probably worth–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: I would alter their state while they’re doing it to a higher level of energy.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Just doing it alters your state. Suppose you could so the advantage to the system that we have is it’s distributable online. It’s highly inexpensive. It doesn’t take very much time, and it’s scalable. But it doesn’t have that participatory element.
TONY ROBBINS: Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So that’s a problem.
TONY ROBBINS: Still generate choices of music, or you could generate some element of exercise for them to do physically, a breathing process. Like, for example, you in the study you saw, they mentioned 10 minutes of practice. Well, not everybody did it, but the 10 minute practice comes from something I do. You’re familiar with priming.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
TONY ROBBINS: Yep. So for your audience, just remind people, priming is when you think it’s your thoughts, very often those thoughts have been primed by the environment. So one quick example so they know what we’re following, you and I are following, is, they took a group of actors, 4 of them, 2 men, 2 women, have them go out and approach people in the park, in the in the mall, and all these things. And they walk up to them, and they have a cup of coffee. I mentioned this the other night when we were together. And I they handed a copy and they looked down. So could you hold this for a second?
Priming and Environmental Influence
TONY ROBBINS: And they look down. They don’t wait for you to say yes. Well, 90% of people take the coffee because it looks like it’s going to fall otherwise. They reach in their pocket. They take out their phone. They put it back. They say thank you very much. They practice doing the exact same way, the same facial expression. Men and women, they do a 100 people each, 400. The only difference is half of them they gave iced coffee to, half of them they gave hot coffee to.
Now 15 to 20 minutes later, somebody comes by with a clipboard, and they come and say, excuse me, here’s $20. This is not a scam. We’re just under a tight timeline for our research. If you need to read these 4 paragraphs of this story and answer these 2 questions, we give you $20 and a lot of people didn’t even take $20. There’s okay. I’ll do it. They read the story. They ask some question. The primary question is describe the main character of the story. What were they like? What are their qualities?
81% of the people who have given iced coffee said the person was cold and uncaring. 79%, basic met variability, of the people that got the hot coffee said the person was warm and genuine.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: The same thing happens with creativity tests showing you IBM and Apple seeing those. That’s all you got to do before the test. The ones that see the Apple commercial or even the logo, because Apple commercial was think differently, scored 22% higher than creativity test. So much of what we think we’re doing ourselves is being shifted by the outside world. So I say prime yourself.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: So I’m not–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s what religious practice is supposed to do.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And I think that’s what it does do. Well, so for example, in the story of Abraham–
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
The Story of Abraham and Priming
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So the story is a sequence of micro adventures that Abraham has, and they expand in scope as he progresses, which is the story of life. Right? But at the beginning of each adventure, he aims upward, and that’s the rekindling of that covenant–
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And indicates his willingness to sacrifice.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right. Right. So that’s a that’s an indication of that, what would you say, humble willingness to change, and it’s a prime. And so and it’s a very useful prime, and it’s one that you can actually apply.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You know, so for example and I’d like to know how you do this technically when you go on stage. So before I take the stage, my wife and I do this. We have a musician, which is really helpful.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: He helps us focus and everybody in the audience focus. And there there is something about music that does that entrainment, that physiological entrainment–
TONY ROBBINS: Everything is like you wouldn’t last those 12 hours if you’re just sitting still. It’s all movement. It’s all music.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: Constant.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: And different types of music with different emotional states that I want to produce.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. I use that as well.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: I could see that in your events that there’s like a there’s a party atmosphere to them, but it and–
TONY ROBBINS: Like what?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And there’s a reason that people use music while in religious ceremonies, for example.
TONY ROBBINS: Sure.
Setting the Aim and Preparing for a Talk
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So the next thing that I try to get the aim in mind–
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And my wife does too because she introduces me. And the aim for me is always a quest. It’s like I have a question–
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And it’s a real question, and I want to get farther in answering it.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? And so I don’t know what I’m going to say, but I I kind of know the tools I’m going to use. But the aim is I know the aim. The aim is a clear question. If I don’t have that, the talk wanders and it’s opaque. Okay?
TONY ROBBINS: There’s an outcome. There’s a clear outcome that it that unifies you moving towards it. And and you’re unconscious. It takes over. Abs–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, that’s the prime. Because I can even have the plan, but because I know the outcome when I go out, I feel the room and it always changes.
TONY ROBBINS: Of course.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. Okay. Okay. This is that’s one of the things I’m curious about.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So the other thing we do is take a moment, and this is very serious moment, to remember that 3,000 people took a lot of their time and energy and money to come and do this, and they’re very happy to be here, and we should be very happy that they’re here also because it’s highly unlikely and that we should be we should do everything we can to eradicate anything that isn’t entirely grateful for the opportunity.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? So now we’ve got AIM and the appropriate mindset, and that’s a prime. And then–
TONY ROBBINS: That’s a prime.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Is so interesting, AIM, because I learned over time that I had to do a lot of preparation for the talks. Now I can do it with less now, but I do a lot. But once on stage, I had to pursue that aim and I had to let the preparation go.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Sure.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That didn’t mean I didn’t have to do it. Okay.
TONY ROBBINS: So now the same beliefs.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So I’m very curious about the way that you manage this because you’re a very high intensity speaker and you’re very charismatic and compelling, and you maintain it for much longer than I do. I go for, like, 90 minutes. I had lectures at the university that were 3 hours long. I was pretty much done at the end of that. But but tell me tell me how you prepare for one of these events.
And then you also said when you go on stage, you you read the room, and I want to know what that means because you obviously it was one of the things I taught my wife when she was learning to speak publicly. I said, well, first of all, don’t look at the crowd. It’s not a crowd. Pick people because you can talk to people.
TONY ROBBINS: A 100%.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You’re talking to a person and you can do that. Right? And then so you get your attitude right and you–
TONY ROBBINS: Oh, yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And then if you look, I told her, look everywhere in the audience because everywhere you don’t look, you’re afraid of. Right? And so you want to go on stage and you want to position yourself. You look at these people and you look at these people and these people and these people and you see where you are, then you’re not self conscious. And then if you’re pursuing your aim so the aim is I’m going to answer this question, and I’m going to be pleased that these people are here. You’re not self conscious because it’s not about you. You–
TONY ROBBINS: You have a 100%.
Tony Robbins’ Approach to Public Speaking
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. Okay. So tell me what you do.
TONY ROBBINS: So tell me, I mentioned just about public speaking as a whole. It’s one of those dark, largest fears that people have in public place.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. And people ask me, don’t you have that fear or this? Well, of course not. I’ve done it, you know, 8,000,000,000 times.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right.
TONY ROBBINS: But the real reason is I wasn’t scared in the beginning. And the reason I wasn’t scared is because I was obsessed on the audience and what do they need and what I believe passionately I can serve them with.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: So I’m not there.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: I I call it uptime. When you’re in uptime, I’m out here feeling you. If you see a speaker that loses the audience for a moment or completely–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: They go in their head and they’re like, what to do. They’re self conscious and and they’re–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Or the rest of the them.
TONY ROBBINS: Or the rest about them. How exactly. How am I doing?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: If they’re saying how am I doing? Me.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. That’s it. That’s different than am I getting through to them?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Very different. Pursuing the quest?
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right. Well, how how far along are we in getting them to where we’re committed to here? Like, what are they really experiencing?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: But my starts with physical for the same reasons. I believe physic you you wrote in your first book, and I’ve been teaching it for, you know, since I was 7 19 years old, I guess. I call it physiology first. You call it shoulders back.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right?
TONY ROBBINS: Uh-huh. It’s like the physiology has to be created first in me or I can’t take you there. How am I going to if I want to touch you, I got to be touched.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: If I’m going to move you, I got to be moved. Yeah. But first, there’s the endurance aspect, which is, you know, I I do oxygen deprivation. I do everything you can imagine. You you dream of of exercise so that I can get up there and sustain for 12 or 13 hours for 4 days or 6 days. So that’s one part. Then people ask my wife, what’s something about Tony that no one realizes? She said, how hard he prepares?
Because I can do the same. I could use my pinky. I could do nothing you get up to do at this stage of my life. But–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: I believe that loading my commitment to be the best I can be to deliver for these souls is I got to be clear on the outcomes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: What and I have multiple outcomes and multiple days and pieces. I have primary outcomes for each day and even segments of the day.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: Like, okay. These are my primary outcomes. And then I close my eyes and I focus on who’s there and why they’re there. If I’m going to court–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Why do you close your eyes?
TONY ROBBINS: Because I want to see it. I want to feel it. I I’m a see, feel person. I see it, and I could feel it immediately. So I see what the result needs. I see where the audience is. And then I think about what makes everybody unique.
If I’m going to, you know, a a stock brokerage company or I’m going to a general population, I’m going to I’m going to if I’m going to China, and then there, obviously, it’s not about or let’s say, Japan’s even better example. It’s not individualism and the need that people have to save face. And then how do I meet those needs? So I think in-depth about who these people are. Even though it’s a huge audience, there are patterns.
Some are general, but they’re wide enough and important enough. And then I also have interviewed people in advance. My staff does. And I read why they’re there, what they’re interested in, what the hooks are, just as triggers. In my day with essay seminar, everybody has, like, a, you know, 12 to 22 page questionnaire they do. That’s a very intensive program. I read them all, 5,000 of them. I will not remember everybody’s name, but I will remember those patterns when somebody stands up and brain takes off and knows where to go with it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? You have something of genuine value to offer to everyone else.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: What do you watch and listen for when you’re on stage?
TONY ROBBINS: Like, you’re so your processes–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Before I get there, though.
TONY ROBBINS: Okay.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: One more piece before I get there. So physically, I’m there. Mentally, I’m connected. So, yeah, I I tell people in business, fall in love with your customer. Don’t do a transaction.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. Like, if you fall in love with your customer or your client, they’ll become your client.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: They become your client. You got to get served them long term. You got to have to serve a friendship–
TONY ROBBINS: Absolutely.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Relationship. You know?
TONY ROBBINS: Yep. And so I do that before. I create that relationship with them before they’ve ever had a relationship with me inside of me.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: And then the third thing I do gratitude for their presence. I’m so grateful to present and grateful that I have the privilege to serve them and learn from them.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: Because I don’t have the delusion when I get up there that I’m just here to deliver every–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: Single time. I’m going to learn from these interactions as well. I tell people.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right. Right.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s like, you know, it’s interesting. You see people who are intimidated or arrogant. I don’t experience either one of those at my life. And I think it’s because early on I made a decision. I don’t have to worry about trying to be enough because I know every person I meet is superior to me in some way. Not because I’m inferior, because they have a different life experience.
Like with you–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right. Right.
TONY ROBBINS: Your capacity with language, your capacity I I know how to deal with stories, active pragmatic stories reshaping. But your ability to take any mythological, religious element, you just blow me away. I mean, that’s very sincerely. It’s like you have a gift in that area. It’s it’s incredible. I don’t have that same gift. I have portions of that maybe, but not that. I have other gifts. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: So I look at you and I hold you with such respect. And so I develop strong relationships because people feel the love and respect.
Building Relationships and Respect
TONY ROBBINS: You can love somebody and not respect them.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? You can respect somebody and not love them. Well, I’m a lover, so that’s easy. Right? I find the good in everybody, but I respect because I know it’s going to be that. And I’m not worried about losing something because I also know–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s a great way to establish a relationship with someone.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? Feel the difference. But I also know, and this is not ego driven, I’m superior to every person I meet in some context because I have a different life experience. And in my life, it’s been an obsession. This will be my 48th year doing this of understanding what makes people do what they do.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Why can you give some people everything, love, support, education, economics, and they end up in rehab their whole life and someone else’s life just smashes the hell out of psychologically, spiritually, emotionally. They go through abuse, and they become Oprah Winfrey.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And I get any touch of the world. Right? And what I began to realize is biography is not destiny.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: And so then I started to see what are the core principles that shape all of that. And now I want to put it into a process. So then what I do–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
Pre-Stage Preparation
TONY ROBBINS: Is right before going on stage, I have a last set of physical things I do every time. I do I do an a set of movements I do in my body, like wake up my whole nervous system. Imagine I want to I want to take my energy to level, 0 to 10, level 20, because there’s no 20 level 10. That’s limited thinking. Right? I’m going to take it as intense as I can.
So now when I relax, relaxing is a 9 or a 10 as opposed to a 4 or 5. My energy has to capture a stadium and sustain it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: So I do that. Then the last piece that I do personally is it’s a prayer. And it’s just, I wear these baseball caps a lot of times. And on the on the side of it, it it says to be a blessing. And underneath it says, and you’ll be blessed.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s my mission. That’s the agency. So I’m I so I ask I ask God to just, you know, please use me. Use me, lord, today. Use me to bless them in whatever way they need to be blessed. And I make that move my body and music hits and I go outside there and then it takes over.
It takes over when I was bleeding out. It takes over when I had mercury poisoning and I was throwing up as renouncing my name.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And I’m going to get up to 13 hours. And the other day, I went to Mexico, and I won’t give you the gory details, but I discovered that willpower does not control your bowels. It’s not enough when you’ve been to Mexico.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Uh-huh.
TONY ROBBINS: And I’m getting on stage with 19,000 people and 30 and I’ve gone for 5 days with e coli, and my body is in convulsions. And I’m trying to think, how am I going to hang on? I walk out there, and I’m walking out nimble instead of my arm running.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: I have to tell the audience, if I disappear, please don’t leave. I’ll be right back. I’ve had this whole experience. Right? And in 15 minutes, I go from my body’s hanging off in dear life to something takes over.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: I don’t know if it’s the sympathetic that takes over, but then 13 hours without a break, and I’m in in it. But I really believe that that part when I said life supports what supports more life. If I now when I suddenly had I was 25. I married a woman that was 11 years my senior. She had been married twice before, and she was unhappy without her kids. So I adopted her kids. So I’m 25, and I have a 17 year old son, an 11 year old, a 5 year old, and my wife. My level of growth by that responsibility that I took very seriously while I still want to change the world was explosive.
Well, if your goal is to support your family, that’s a different level of insight than just you. You’re going to get more insights. If you’re looking to serve a community, if you’re looking to see humanity, I’m not talking about virtue signaling. I’m talking about in your soul, you know what is real, what your deepest purpose and desires, what you’re called for. Well, when that happens, there’s an aliveness and a strength that seems to overcome.
It overcomes exhaustion. It overcomes everything.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, that’s what Frankl said. Because it comes through you. It’s a it’s it’s it’s a calling.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s a different experience. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
The Priming Process
TONY ROBBINS: But I also just want to mention, I just mentioned the 10 minute pieces. That priming I was telling you about, I start every morning by priming myself, including the days I’m on stage.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: What is priming?
TONY ROBBINS: I I wasn’t much of a meditator. My meditation is serving people. God kind of comes through or somebody stands up and they’re going to commit suicide. That’s it all just happens. Or I’m running on the beach. I’m in nature. That’s my version of meditation, more active movement. But I I realized there was value in the stillness at that stage and the peace. And so I developed this little 10 minute process.
And why 10 minutes? Because if I told you 20, you’d tell me you don’t have the time. Right? If you don’t have 10 minutes for your life–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: You don’t have a life. Right? You agree with me?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: So I said, I’m going to do 3 things in that 10 minutes. What is the emotion that keeps most people what messes up their relationship, messes up their career? 2 of them, in my belief. Fear and anger. Those 2. What’s the antidote to those? Gratitude.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: But not mamby pamby gratitude. I’m grateful. Like, if I ask you what it was like driving on a roller coaster and you remember the roller coaster over there and tell me about it, there’s no change in your biochemistry. But if I get you to be in the front seat going over the edge, that’s fully associated. I’m going to get the biochemical changes. So what I do is I do these changes in my body. It takes less than a minute of this kind of, breath of fire, if you know, yogic breath of fire, explosive breath, which changes the biochemistry.
And now I take 10 minutes, and I do 3 things. 1, I take 3 minutes, a minute each, and I think of something in my life that I’m incredibly grateful for. But I’m at the front seat feeling it, being there, experiencing it. So it has a biochemical change, not an intellectual.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: And and I usually pick one of those 3. It’s got to be something really simple. It could be the the wind on my face from the ocean here. It could be the smile of my daughter, you know, the morning. And so I don’t make it just like everything’s going to the moon. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: And so I train myself to feel that.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: When do you do that? In the day?
TONY ROBBINS: First thing in the morning. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: I do a lot. What do you mean first thing? Do you mean as soon as you wake up?
TONY ROBBINS: I go outside. I do the water first. I do the hot and cold. Yeah. So I do, you know, people now it’s very popular, but I’ve been doing for, what, 17 years. I’ve been doing jumping in the cold and doing it. So I have cold punches ever in my home in Sun Valley.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That wakes you up.
TONY ROBBINS: Snow. It not only wakes you up, it’s also a mental discipline. Every your entire lymph system, blood flows. But there’s never a day that I can remember when I was like, I can’t wait to jump in this freezing water 50 degrees.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. Or if I’m going to the river and suddenly walking through the snow and it’s like 42 degrees there. Right? But when I get to it, there is never hesitancy because I am training my brain besides my body that like, people say, oh, I don’t feel like it. Don’t give a shit if you don’t feel like it if you–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Of course, you don’t do any hypersensitive. Cold water.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. No. So but I don’t negotiate with myself. It’s like the minute I get there, I don’t go, okay. Let me get ready or let me get, you know, one more comfortable moment. It’s like, when I say go, we go. And I’ve done that for years. And now when I say go, we go with anything else, my there’s no discussion. This is this is what we’re going to do right now. This is a unified force.
So I get that. And then I sit and I do this breathing, and I do 3 minutes, fully connected what I’m grateful for, a huge biochemical change. 3 minutes on what would be a prayer or a blessing, where I ask for guidance to cleanse my system, everything that’s no longer needed, to strengthen my greatest strengths, my love, my passion, my commitment.
And then I see sending that energy out, like, in a circle to those closest to my family, my closest friends, my associates, my clients, my customers, anybody I want to meet.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. So that sets your attitude to them.
TONY ROBBINS: And and and it and also, I’m sure you’ve seen, you know, the Dalai Lama, they did those studies where people focus on compassion for people they don’t even know, and there’s a change in the brain and how it functions.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: You. So I do that for myself. So there’s a science based everything I do as well. And then 3rd–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, if you practice universal love, you’d probably get better at it.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. I would think so. Well, well, I know it. Right? Because I have to get it in there.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s right. Get better at it.
TONY ROBBINS: And what am I doing all this? I’m wiring myself every day to do this. Right? So it it becomes like when I wake up, it starts to happen.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And then the third one, I call 3 to thrive, where I think of 3 things, a minute each, that I want to accomplish or achieve, And I see them as already done. I feel them as done. I celebrate them as done. So my reticular activating system, which I can talk in shorthand for you, you understand.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: If I go and I buy a car and outfit, suddenly you see the car and outfit everywhere. Well, weren’t they always there? Yes. But now it’s important to the IRS. Right? So I why am I RS for the final victory with the emotion and the impact of my family, my friends, and everything?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So are you doing that with the images?
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. I close my eyes. I see, feel, and I feel. I walk through it. I celebrate it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So tell me tell me exactly that. Or, like, when you’re running these simulations–
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You’re not you’re you’re making the case that you’re not only thinking about it in words.
TONY ROBBINS: No.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Like, so you’re what are you doing? Are you in a state that’s like a dream? Like, is it image based? Now you said there’s emotion.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s image and feel, but I’m a everyone has different synesthesia patterns as I’m sure you know. Minor c feel. Some people are audio feel. Right? Some people everybody has different synesthesia. Well, not everybody has synesthesia patterns. Some people stay on one modality as you know, and that limits you. But I wired myself to see feel.
So that’s my I know that’s it. So I see it. I feel it is done, and then I’ll say something. I do that.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s quite a it’s quite a multidimensional structure.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s what makes it real.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And now what happens, now you’re vibrating. Now the world hits you. Because look look at there’s 2 worlds you got to master. The outside world, the inside. Well, you can’t control that outside world. You can influence it. But I can certainly control what I focus on, what it means to me, what I’m going to do.
Wiring the Brain for Success
TONY ROBBINS: And so now, when things come in, they bounce off. Now, I might do 60 seconds of, you know, grace later in the day, like, take a minute and kind of reignite it if I feel like I need a little boost for it. But when you do that enough, it’s the Myelin. It’s like Venus Williams and her sister. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right.
TONY ROBBINS: They they wired themselves by playing since they’re so small and doing it. So I’m wired to find the solution. I’m wired to find the gratitude. And I’m wired to find the good in it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And so it doesn’t just show up. Right? It’s it doesn’t show up for Steph Curry. You you do again, what you’re rewarded for in public is what you practice in private. So I do all that before I get on stage, then I get on stage, and then it flows. And then I feel and I will work sometimes till 2 or 3 or 4 in the morning. And I have a team around me that are amazing, and they work crazy hours with me. And I’m creating something new, and I lay out I’m a sequence guy.
The dog bit Johnny, Johnny bit the dog. Change the syntax of the same ingredients. It’s a very different experience. Right? So I’m always figuring what’s a good syntax. And we all laugh about it because we work hard. And then I get up that morning and then get up on stage. And within 5 minutes, all that crap’s out the window. I may still use pieces.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. But like you said, this is the part you understand that most people don’t. Why do I do that if it always changes? Because I’m loading my brain. It’s like–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
Emotional Intelligence vs. Emotional Fitness
TONY ROBBINS: There there’s a difference between what people call emotional intelligence and what I would call emotional fitness. Emotional intelligence is a capability. You can be capable of being smart and not use your intelligence. You could I ask people, are you an honest person? Yes. But can you can you lie? If anybody’s honest, let’s say, yes, I’ve lied. Right? So let’s say, you know, whether you show up or not, I look at emotional fitness. It’s not a capability. It’s a state of readiness. I have activated all the circuits.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: So now when I walk out there, my nervous system is wired to serve you in any way that could possibly show up.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So you’re ready to contend–
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: When you go on stage, and it’s partly because you prepared–
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And you manifested faith in yourself by showing the commitment to the preparation. Plus, you primed all those stories because one of the things preparation does for me you know, so I’ll have the question in mind, and then I think of analytic tools that I can use to interrogate that question. And then I think through the stories, and they’re stories I know. And I think through way more stories than I’ll use, but now they’re at hand.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right. So They’re activated.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And so that’s it. Like a belief. Think of this. Yeah. A lot of people have conflicting beliefs. So which one do they act on? You may have been raised, look before you leap. Someone else thought you, he who hesitates is lost.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right. Right.
TONY ROBBINS: Okay. They’re both in you. Which one are you going to act on? Whichever one has been activated the most. It’s the activation of your nervous system. That’s the part I think people miss. So many people have great philosophical understanding, but they don’t execute. And I’m a big believer that knowledge is not power. Knowledge is potential power. Execution dwarfs and trumps knowledge every day of the week.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: So I’m a I am a accelerant for the activation of moving forward, not just the understanding.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? So that’s partly why you put so much stress on the physiological element and–
TONY ROBBINS: 100%.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: But also then it’s revised in you, not as a thought.
TONY ROBBINS: Sure. Sure.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. So so let’s talk so–
TONY ROBBINS: That’s why the results are lasting. When I after we walk through people through these stages of the process, we do then focus and specify strategy. It’s like, okay. And the strategy is pretty it’s very concretized. And I try to do this in my lectures. So I have a question. I want to lay out the structure of the question and the answer conceptually, but then I want to nail it down to transformations and perception and action.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: I love it.
TONY ROBBINS: So that’s strategy.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s right. Okay. So tell me how you link the motivational element, the drive element, let’s say, to the so motivation and drive are personalities, by the way.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s a very good way of conceptualizing it because they have a viewpoint. They have emotions.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: They have a they have a philosophy. They’re not just they’re not just, like, cause and effect physical sequences.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So you’re revoking personalities in people.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right. And and by the way, this is a really important distinction. I believe, and I think you probably do, and correct me if I’m wrong, that multiple personalities. They don’t have one personality. This idea of a bigger personality.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s right.
Problem-Solving and Communication
TONY ROBBINS: And I believe when someone stands up and they’ve got a problem, what that really is is an unanswered question. Toews, I got a problem, and I’ll tell you what’s your question. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. You know, it’s because if we solve the question, your problem disappears. Right? But what I also noticed is I believe that answer is already inside them.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You know, you can know that this is a very good thing to know if you’re having a discussion with your wife. And men get frustrated with women sometimes because women on average have higher levels of negative emotion. And so that means that they’re more children. It’s survival. They have their reasons.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Very Yeah. Yeah. They have their reason. And their prey. I mean, the the thing that they’ve done most of life. Men have been the thing that could screw things up.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. They have the reason. They’re bigger and they’re stronger.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? But what it means is that they’re more sensitive to environmental disruptions on average, and then they try to communicate that to men. But it isn’t necessarily the case that their alarm system, which indicates a problem, is differentiated enough to specify it precisely. So partly what you’re trying to do when you’re talking to your wife and she brings you a concern is to find out the question, which is what you just said.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. There’s a problem, but there’s a question in that. Right? And one of the errors that men make when they’re listening to women is that they jump from they presume the question too rapidly and jump to the solution without allowing the–
TONY ROBBINS: Or another consideration is, they don’t want you to solve the problem right now, and men are focused on solving problems. That’s something they want in America. Well, but they want connection. They want caring. They want empathy first and foremost. And so if you’re busy getting the solution, I made this mistake so many times, Jordan, in the beginning because I’m wired I want to I’m I’m wired to give people solutions as my whole life has been. But for my wife or for any woman, even my daughter, my mother came in earlier. And it’s it wasn’t about solving. It was about bringing presence to her.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: It was about her being comforted. It’s about me feeling her and her feeling that I feel her. And that solves it by itself. Because women get together, and oftentimes, they don’t solve the problem. They just say, I can’t believe you’re going through this. How do you I don’t know how you do it. And that nurtures them so they can return to their natural self where they’re able to deal with all these things.
So women are unbelievable. Men are, you know, tend to be single focus as you well know. They have diffused awareness. They could be here and hearing what’s going on with the kid and what’s happening to you, what’s going on here together. That blows my mind when we’re capable of. But with it comes, you know, no more enormous burden. And what we need to understand is, as men, is we don’t carry that same burden. We can end things more easily. Women tell us how to be alive. Because men can go for the target, get there, celebrate, and it’s over. You know? Women bring the life to everything.
Understanding Different Models of the World
TONY ROBBINS: So we miss out on that when we make the illusion that we’re just going to solve this. It’s why not just men and women, all of us have different models of the world as you well know. And so the more I can understand your model of the world, the more I can support you, love you, influence you for a in a positive way towards what you want.
So to me, that it to influence another person, you have to know what already influences them. Like, most people are good. I I look at what creates an extraordinary life. I think it is leadership. And to me, leadership is influence. And influence is the ability to shape the thoughts, feelings, and emotions in a positive way. You can influence in a negative way the quality of someone’s life. Whether it be a kid, whether it be a friend, would it be start has to start with you. You can’t you can do it yourself. You can’t do it with anybody else.
So if influence is bad, you got to know what influences people. Most people do you have you have 3 children. How many children do you have there? I’m sorry.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: 2.
TONY ROBBINS: 2 children. Right? So I’m at the chemist. I that’s Yeah. If you’re you know, most people have, not a favorite child, but they have an easier child. Was that true in your experience?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, Mikaela was more difficult, but she was ill.
TONY ROBBINS: Okay.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? But apart from that, I wouldn’t say so.
TONY ROBBINS: Okay. Most people tell me, well, I had an easier child, and they laugh. And I said, now, was that child more like you or more like someone else? And they all laugh because the one that have made influence is the one that’s more like them. Right?
So but the real secret to influence is being able to influence anyone by understanding what’s already influencing them. Of course, when you tell the child it’s like you to clean the room the way that works for you, it works. The other one goes read between the lines. Right? Because they have a different personality, different way of being.
So my whole focus is enter people’s worlds where they are by understanding their model of the world as opposed to trying to impose yours and wondering why it doesn’t go anywhere. If I can align your needs, your desires, your outcomes with what we’re doing together in a company, in a family, in anything, then we’re going to have enormous harmony and there’s less friction.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Of course. So you got to go from where you are to where you want to be 10 times faster.
TONY ROBBINS: Of course. Of course.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. You want you want all you want everybody to be rowing in the same direction.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. Even if they’re in their own boat.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. Yeah. So, okay, so I want to talk about, if you would, I want to talk about how you help people translate this aim and and energy now that you’ve established into strategy.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So so, like, how do you guide people through that process? Because that’s, well, that’s where the rubber hits the road.
Guiding People Through the Process
TONY ROBBINS: 100%. Because they got to you got to get the experience in them. So I may start I’m going to raise the energy. I’m going to start to introduce questions, and they’re rhetorical questions, but you watch people start to process. If I say to you, don’t think of the color blue, don’t think of the color blue, don’t think of the blue, we know what color you’re going to be thinking about. Right? If I want you to think about your mother, I start talking about mine. If I want to think about your high school years, talk about mine.
You’ll go in a trance, and you’ll go to your place. Most change I find, lasting change always happens in an altered state, an altered state of consciousness. Well, you could call hypnosis. Have you ever seen people go to an elevator and push the button that’s already lit up? If you got a dollar for everyone, you’d be rich. Or you’re even driving your car, and then all of a sudden, something gets you fixated, and then you wake up and go, who the hell’s been driving the car? Right? People go into transit. Trans just means you’re more internal than external. So I utilize that.
Engaging and Educating the Audience
TONY ROBBINS: I let them go into their internal wall and enrich their maps. And then, once they have an understanding, the cognitive, and they start seeing the emotional consequences, now we have them do something while they’re there. I call it ecubing. I’m able to hold people that link because I believe people want to be entertained first in the world right today. We’re not in the information age. It’s over. It died. There’s too much information. We’re drowning in information, starving for wisdom. So what people want is entertainment.
So I earned the right by entertain by making them laugh. I move them so much. The people didn’t think they’re going to be. The people came there like this. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: In a matter of 15 minutes, that’s all changed so radically. So now I have the right to educate them, and I want to bring them the best insights–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Why do you think that convinces them? You know, because you just described them and opens them.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: But why? Because you just described it as entertainment. Is an emotional change, not just an intellectual one. Why does that make them open to to the difficulty of change?
TONY ROBBINS: Because they get comfortable when you’re laughing or or trying or moved emotionally. You’re wide open. Things are not you’re not hanging you can’t hang up.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Matter of of establishing something approximating trust?
TONY ROBBINS: And Without a doubt, there’s trust. I remember one time, a good friend of mine is now. I’ve known him for 25 years. So when I first met–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Connection.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. I’m I’m I was on stage, and I go out there. It’s what you said. And I’m working in those days. It was the, you know, the eighties you wore suit and tie and 3 piece suit like you on stage for 13 hours a day. And my friend who was not wasn’t my friend then, he came in and he was somebody dragged in there. He’s like this. And he goes, I remember looking at you and watching you. And the sweat on your tie was gradually going through the entire state of the service. My chest was soaked. I was dripping, and I was giving every ounce of my soul. He goes, anyone could think that for an hour or 2. But 12 days, he said, that son of a bitch can jump I can jump and make this thing happen too.
And so there is a trust factor that happens there. But then you do that. That’s what you said you just said that’s a that’s a consequence of the commitment that you’re indicating by your, what would you say, your–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: While your commitment to the project.
TONY ROBBINS: Pure energy to serve them.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. That’s a to do whatever it takes. And they get it. They get that I’m there in service to them, but I could do all this a lot less and be fine. And they probably be fine. I’m not looking for fine. I’m looking for transformation. That requires more.
Practical Exercises and Mirroring
TONY ROBBINS: And then the answer to your question is, I have them do exercises where they take that insight and they do with somebody else. Let’s say it’s matching and mirroring, learning how to create rapport unconsciously. Have them sit next to a stranger they’ve never met–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep. Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: And mirror their body perfectly, have a third person adjust them till they’re there, and then say, tell me what you’re experiencing. And the other person writes down what they’re experiencing. And somewhere between 80-90% of the time, they will say the same feeling. But about 30% of the time, they’ll see what this person is seeing. I’m on a boat. There’s 2 children. They’re blonde. I mean, how could they know that? Because they’re tapping in to the exact same thing that’s happening in the nervous system next to them. Now once you’ve had that experience, you don’t forget it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: When I do a q and a with people–
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Because I’ve met, I don’t know how many thousands of people–
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Doing that. And then I also learned this in my clinical practice. If you watch first of all, I kind of think of those q and a lines like a wedding, reception. You know?
TONY ROBBINS: Uh-huh.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s a privilege, right, to have that happen every night.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s a privilege to hear what he wants to say.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Oh, that’s for sure. Then, well, then they want to stick around and meet you. You should be pretty damn happy about that too, if you have any sense. But, you know, if you watch people carefully, and this is also a way of not being self conscious or nervous, you see that everybody has a tempo. You know, and I found that if I reach my hand out to shake their hand at their tempo–
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: I immediately establish rapport. And I think it’s because I’ve indicated by something that subtle–
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That I’ve watched them, and I know them as well as I could know them given that I’ve only met them 5 seconds ago. Right? So it really gets things off in a good foot. And that’s that mirroring–
TONY ROBBINS: And for your viewers or listeners, you know, there are different modes of the brain. So when you’re in a visual state, imagery state, it’s then talked more rapidly. Use words like, I see that, I picture, I imagine that. Right? Visual words and this rapid because of pictures with a 1,000 words. When someone’s more in an auditory state, they have a different tempo, a different approach, much more Jordan like. And it also soothes. And for somebody who’s in that state, it’s great. And then there are people that we get into the kinesthetics of their body, and they’re more like, you know, I just don’t feel it. I just–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: Don’t get a sense of it. The audience is going I I I don’t hear it. I don’t it just I’m listening, but I just I’m not hearing it. Visual person.
So, by the way, visual people driven crazy sometimes, like, anesthetic people. We’re all free. Right? But in certain context and so I tend to go more visual. I’m I’ve got so much I want to share. My passion brings it. So it brings in energy. But if I don’t slow it down over 12 hours, I’ll lose a part of the audience. So the same thing shaking hands. You shake and reach out, shake hands, and it shakes their hands like that. That’s the person’s visual. Person goes like this, it’s more rhythm, and they shake hand like that. It’s auditory. Somebody’s more hesitant, and they kind of reach out if it’s more kinesthetic. I can even know, by the way they’re approaching me, what language to use that will pull them in closer.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Am I going to use visual language, auditory, or kinesthetic language?
TONY ROBBINS: How do you know that? Because I can tell by their movements. You can see if someone’s more kinesthetic, what their movements are like versus visual, what their movements are like. And you mirror it. And when you mirror it, they feel an unconscious connection.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? As you–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: They feel like You’re already doing that. You’re doing those–
TONY ROBBINS: It’s like a dance.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s exactly like a dance. And if and you see people do it naturally.
Reading the Audience
TONY ROBBINS: When I you asked about the audience. When I look at the audience, I’m looking at people and I’m seeing individuals and I’m talking people say, it sounds like you’re talking directly to me and there are 20,000 people. Well, I’m sure you experience that as well. Well, it’s because there’s only so many patterns, but I care so deeply. I’m looking. I’m feeling. I’m talking directly to people, but I’m also watching.
Because if you watch your audience, there’s waves.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: There there’s a person there that when they change the leg and flip over, 4 other people do.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yep.
TONY ROBBINS: Right? And you I start seeing the movement of the audience, like, okay. Boom. I’m going after this guy. Because when I get him, I got 10 people. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Oh, yeah. I’m here. So so you can identify the people who trigger that.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. Yes. And it’s not always who you think it would be. Like, there might be some strapping, you know, guy, like, you know, an athlete, a guy that comes in that’s an NFL player. And and people have you look at everything else, but they’re not influenced by him. And then there’s this young lady right here, and she moves. And this mom, and she moves, and there’s 20 people that that seem to adjust.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: I’ve never noticed that often. That’s one thing to notice. It just it also makes you makes me stay so awake because I have to be–
TONY ROBBINS: Right. Right. Right. Not in here.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And that’s why you can sustain engagement and sustain joy and excitement and everything else. We’re moving their bodies. We’re completely connected. They’re altering their own physiology and biochemistry, and they’re focusing on what matters most to them, not to you. And they’re learning tools there’s consequence to, and they get to feel the consequence in real time. So the chances of falling up. So I call it ecubing.
1st, entertain them, then educate them with the best tools. So I don’t just say, oh, here’s how you’re going to do financially. I go out and I interview 50 of the smartest financial people on Earth.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: And I teach them their strategy. And they’re like, oh my God. Or like, you know, everybody wants to do well financially and they have more freedom. Well, anyway get there compounding. Right? You can take a child, 19 year old, and say, put $300 aside. Sounds like a lot, but you’re living at home. Put that $300 aside. Put it in the market, in the S and P. It’s averaged 10% over the last 100 years. And guess what?
They do that from 19 to 27, and they can stop.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: They put in $28,000. Their friend starts at 27. When they stop, they have to go to 65. They put in a $140,000. The first guy has got 1,800,000 in it in retirement. The second guy who’s put more money in, he’s only got a 100 1.2 in that experience. Right?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
Investment Strategies and Financial Education
TONY ROBBINS: So today, one of my last books is the holy grail of investing. It’s like, I don’t just teach you the philosophy.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: There’s a philosophy. How you’re going to invest is very important. I interviewed Ray Dalio, the greatest, you know, hedge fund investor in history. And Ray, I asked him at one point a question. I’m always digging for the strategy too, right, besides the philosophy. I said, what’s the single most important investment principle of your life? And he paused, and he smiled. And we had this great conversation. My interview was supposed to be 30 minutes. They went 3 hours because I got so engaged. So it’s fun. So Ray and I became good friends.
But he said, Tony, I’ll tell you. There’s a holy grail. That’s the name of the book.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: Because there’s a holy grail of investing. Anytime you can find 8 to 12 uncorrelated investments. In other words, stocks and bonds usually usually are uncorrelated. If stocks are going up, bonds are less, vice versa. Right? If you can find 8 to 12 of those, you reduce your risk by 80%, and you increase your upside with nothing else.
Now he told me this in about a month later. I was at JPMorgan. They they do this, this alternative investment conference. You got to be a billionaire to go. And I’m one of the speakers right before we raise Ray. And somebody asked him a very similar question. At least he end up going back to it and giving the same answer. And I watched all these billionaires who would not take an announcement, those dropping their head and write like crazy. So it’s like, people don’t get this, and they realized it was hard to do. So then here’s the strategy part.
I’m not just going to tell you that. I got to show you how.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: And so I I had to find out for me. Now, you and I are lucky enough and blessed enough that we’ve done well financially. We have access to a lot of people. I’m sure you offered the opportunity. But it’s like, where do the wealthiest people put their money? Where they’re going to get the most return with the least risk? Right? The average person doesn’t have access to what they have. Private equity. If you look at the last 37 years, 37 years of stock markets all over the world, basic private equity has outstripped every stock market in the world for 37 straight years.
Private equity means they buy private companies, they build them up, they add value, and then they sell the company for a multiple or they take it public for people who don’t understand. That’s what I mean by private as opposed to the stock market.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: Those individuals have more flexibility. If you want to see what wealthy people do, 46% of their assets are in private assets. Private credit, private equity. Because if you look at the Fortune 400, the wealthiest people in the world, here’s the pattern. Which industry has the most billionaires? It’s not tech. It’s what a lot of people think. It’s not real estate. It’s financial services, and it’s not hedge funds because they go up and down. It’s private equity.
So I found this out. You put invest your money in the S and P 500, and over the last 37 years, you’ve average compounding has been 10.7%.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s very nice. Basic private equity. Not the guys I interviewed for much this book. The I interviewed this book on the Holy Grail. I interviewed the 10, 12 top people in the world. The best guys that have produced returns plus 20% for 25 years compounded. It’s unheard of. Right? So guess what? S and P is 10.7. Basic private equity. Now these guys have averaged 15.7. So imagine compounding 50% faster per year. If you put a $1,000,000 in 30 years ago in the S and P, it’s worth $42,000,000 today. If you put a $1,000,000 of same time, same amount of money in private equities worth $223,000,000 if you did basic private equity.
So then I go a step further and go, how do I get people in there?
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: And then I fortunately saw that right. You you probably know there’s something called an accredited investor. These levels that the government has where you don’t get access to the best investments unless you have a certain amount of money, a $1,000,000, a certain level of income. Well, it doesn’t make sense because how many business people you know are good business people but not great investors or someone inherited their money? So they they don’t have these skills, but they get to do this. They get to
Democratizing Investment Opportunities
TONY ROBBINS: They get to have this kind of return. So I was pushing for it. It didn’t come from me. It just happened. So why this is so unfair? Congress last year decided, why don’t we give people a test they can study for? And if they pass the test, they got the education. It’s not that complex. Now they can have investments that could grow 50% faster. And so it’s available. Then I went a step further. I was like, okay.
It’s good to know this. It’s good to have access to this. But the very best of the best, I’m sure you know, they’re very hard to get in. It’s all sold out in advance. They’re very top people, the people that produce the greatest returns.
So I was ruminating about this with a friend of mine who I’d helped who was, a friend of Paul Tudor Jones. I’ve coached he’s one of the top 10 traders in history, and I’ve coached him for 24 years now, well, more than that. But one of his partners broke off, and I’d helped him out. He says, Tony, I was like, you know, I I get pieces of these things, but not big enough to make enough of a difference. And And I said, I want to help people because there’s new rules changing.
And I was like, but I I don’t even want to talk about it because what little slice are they going to get? It’s not going to matter. And he says, Tony, he goes, you’ve done so much of my life. I got to tell you who where I put most of my money. I’m perking up. This is a very bright man. Right? He goes, there’s this place in Houston, Texas, this company. I’m like, Houston, Texas. Not Singapore. Not New York. Not Connecticut. Not London. He he goes, yeah. They’re off the beaten path.
He said, they’ve discovered a way where you don’t invest in these private equity and try to get a little piece of it. Where you literally buy a piece of the company, and you own all of those, and you get the 2% they charge and 20. So you not only get the compounding I told you about, but you’re doing what the wealthiest people in the world do. I said, how the heck do you do that? He goes, I want to do shit. I’ll show you how it works. Imagine the newest team betting on a horse or owning a racetrack.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s the difference. Well, now you take that strategy you instituted and the compounding of what it does, you end up at your goals 10 times faster.
So it’s not just understanding. It’s everything I do has got to be philosophy and strategy. It’s more things I respect about you.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: A lot of people teach philosophy, and then you understand it. And philosophy helps you to understand the why and have meaning. It’s critical. But if you don’t have the strategy, you’re not going to execute. And some people teach strategy without philosophy. And so they know how to do it. They don’t know why.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Why?
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s the combination. Corporate world’s like that. And so so but so my world is constantly modeling the best. I’m no idiot. I know most people in the world are not really physically fit. They’re not really happy. They’re not in a passionate relationship. They’re not earning what they think they should earn. That is most people.
But there’s a few who do. And I mentioned the few who do versus the many who talk, so I can take their models and bring it to the person who can now be one of the few do also if they choose to. Got it. But then it requires all the things you and I teach. The aim, the peace, the persistence to make that happen.
Upcoming Event
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: I want to close this with a discussion. You have an event coming up.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. I do.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So will you will you walk us through that?
TONY ROBBINS: Sure. You know, it’s interesting. I’m used to doing for most of my lifetime, these big stadium events, and I love doing it. It’s fun, and I do it all over the world, and then COVID hits. So, you know, we my wife was beautiful. I had a 16th birthday party, and I said, I don’t want to party. And she said, we’re doing a party. We’ll do a party with a purpose. So we raised money to help one of our passions is helping kids that have been trafficked. And so we raised, $19,000,000. We put in 5,000,000, but 14,000,000 to the audience. It was, like, unbelievable celebration. All my friends there was just great. 3000, 4000 people. 3 days later, I’m on this high, and I get the call from the nuisance office saying, by the way, this thing has come about.
You can put a 100 people in the stadium up here where 14,000 people are planning to come. Right? And we still have a few more weeks to market. We can’t put a 100 people in there. So I I I’m not like you. I’m not a person who gives up. So it’s like, we’re going to Vegas. They’ll never shut down Vegas. Right? So sure enough, we moved 14,000 people, Jordan, to go to Vegas.
And about 10 days out, I think, it was 11 days out, they shut down Vegas. So I’m like, we’re going to Texas. It’s its own country. And the governor says, I’m not bending. And I a friend of mine has a big church there in Houston. We’ve rent the church. We’re going to come there. They shut it down 9 days before we got there. So then they said, movie theaters, you can put 10 people in the movie theater. I said, here’s what we’ll do.
We’ll broadcast the movie theaters. They can put 10 people. You still have a giant screen. They’ll have great music, and they’ll stop personal interaction, and they could do it local. That will make this work. Right? Shut down the movie theaters. So I built the studio, and this relates to the event I’m doing is I would never have done this, Jordan, except necessity. That’s why I say crisis is one of the greatest gifts in our life because it produces a necessity for change if you’re going to succeed, if you’re going to find a way.
And so if you said to me, I’m going to take the energy I have in a stadium and have people do this in their home, in their living room, in their garage, or whoever it is, there’s no way. But I have no choice. I want to serve people. So I built a studio, 50 foot high ceilings, 20 foot high LED screens, 50 feet around me. I went to the founder of Zoom, and I said, I can’t have a 1,000 people. We got to get he’s a fan of mine. We got to get it to 25,000 people. I made it so that we built some software so that people, instead of clapping, they shake their phone and it sends an electrical signal. Well, if one person does it, you don’t want to hear anything. But when 25,000 people do it, it’s just like the stadium. It’s like thunder.
Right? You can feel it. So it’s all authentic, interacting. And then I can bring people up on the stream bigger than life. I can see everything. I can see more than if I’m there. And I know their name. People are sitting, and I can see them throughout the day as the sun rises and sets because it’s 13 hours. Right? And I can see somebody there in Australia, and I can see what’s going on.
I meet I see their kid. I say I say, John Smith, what the hell are you doing there sitting on that that and they jump up because I got their name. I know where it is. So it actually works incredibly well. And women, some women, the idea of being in a giant audience doesn’t feel safe. So for some women and some men, it’s actually a better experience for them.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: So then it’s like, okay, I want to help people with this, but they’re not going to do this. People are stuck in their homes. You know, I can’t just sit here. We got to do something. I’m fine business wise, financially. That’s not it. It’s my mission. So I said, let’s do a seminar where there’s no cost. Let’s do a seminar where there’s no travel, because usually people fly to another country to meet me and go to an event. There’s no expense for a hotel. None of that stuff. And still immersion, but not enough that freaks them out. We’ll do, like, 3 in a 3 hours a day for 3 days or 4 days in a row.
And let’s do it in their homes. Let’s see what we can pull off. 1st year, we had 343,000 people. I would have had it done 16 states.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right. Right.
TONY ROBBINS: The next year, I went to 700. This last year, it was 1,200,000 people who have tenant from every country in the world. Now here’s what happens. It’s free. It’s not partially free. It’s totally free. My only request is, since you got it for nothing, I need you vested. I want you to do an assignment each night that shows you’re acting on this. And put it put a little video or description here on YouTube or on on, what do you call it? On social media, Facebook. And then I’m up all night in Jordan because I get so inspired by all these different people and their stories. But then I get to see someone and call them the next day. So I’ll give you an example.
There’s a guy there, named Matt. I just saw him recently. £700. He would never make it to a seminar because he’s in bed for 6 years with oxygen mask on. He’s told he’ll never live without the oxygen mask. He oxygen mask on. He’s told he’ll never live without the oxygen mask. He can’t get up to go to the bathroom. It’s all through a tube. But it’s free, and it’s on a screen.
So he decides to attend the seminar. Right? He gets so inspired, and he he did some of the exercise I asked. So I saw it the night before, so I called him, bring him up to interact with him. And we start to put together a plan.
The Hero’s Journey
TONY ROBBINS: Because think about it. It’s it’s the hero’s journey. You know the hero’s journey better than anybody. Right? You have this ordinary life, and you get that call to adventure. It could sound like cancer. It could sound like your business is shut down by COVID. It could be a relationship ending. Doesn’t sound like a call to adventure, but that’s what it is. Well, the call adventure happens.
And as you know, most people don’t take the call, so you have to take more hits. So they have to take the call. And then you go on the journey, and you meet new people, new friends, and you meet new mentors. And you get past the point of no return where you have to go forward, then you do battle. And eventually, you slay your dragons. You come home the hero of your own life, and you have something real to give people because you’ve lived it. It’s not just book knowledge. And then as soon as you’re done, it happens again. You’re ready to be challenged again. So I look at it this way.
Instead of waiting for life to show up, I say, have a way to measure are you on the path? Here’s how you know if you’re on the path. First question. You and I would be so aligned on this. What is your deepest desire now? Let’s awaken that. Let’s find the reasons for it. What do you want now? Because desire sets the tone of the story. Is my desire to serve God? Is my desire to build a family? Is my desire to whatever it is, you know that sets the tone. So we activate that. Then the second step that we take you through is face the truth.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
Facing the Truth and Taking Action
TONY ROBBINS: Which is, what has stopped you in the past? And, Jordan, I found relatively, there’s only a few things. Maybe 5.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: It’s like fear. That’s why I didn’t do it. Or it’s a limiting belief or story. All the good ones are gone. I’ve tried everything. You know, it’s not true, but you believe it, so you don’t act on it. Or it could be a different emotion. It could be an emotion like, you know, overwhelm, stress, something of that nature that keeps you moving forward. Or it could be a habit. You want to lose £30, but you go to Starbucks and get a smoking mocha whatever every morning. It’s not going to work. Or you’re missing a skill. Right? You just don’t know how to manage it. No one taught you what’s going on. Right?
So there’s only a few things. So once you have enough driving desire and reasons and you take on the path you’re on the path now. You know what you want. 2nd step to keep on the path is knowing what’s preventing you. Next step is build a map, a massive action plan. Not a perfect plan.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Mhmm.
TONY ROBBINS: Just what are the 2 or 3 things that’ll get you momentum? What can you do right now? What’s it going to do that’s difficult when you do this easy? Start with the easy one, then go the difficult one. I personally like to go the difficult one first. You do whatever your style is. You go with the most difficult one you’ll likely to manage.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes. I agree with you. It’s the most certainty that you can still find the way.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. And then you got to step 4 is you got to do the hard work. You got to slay the dragons. You got to actually get the skills. You got to push through whatever that limiting belief for fear is. Once you’ve done that, the rest is easy. Now all you need is a daily practice, like priming. And by the way, the priming thing I mentioned, if your audience wants to go there, there’s no charge for you. Go to tony robbins.com/priming. And there’s a video that shows you how to do it. If you want to do that old 10 minute practice.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. We’ll put that in the links.
TONY ROBBINS: It’d be great. But regardless, you now have some daily practices that keep you on the target, then you measure ruthlessly because you can’t manage something you don’t measure. That’s the biggest problem in most businesses. Right? You know, it’s like, I’m fortunate now. I have literally a 114 companies who do $9,000,000,000 in business. And I have no business background, only self educated by studying the best. And the patterns are the same. I see what the patterns are. Right?
So now you measure, and then you celebrate. And then just like the other one, you start over again. Now what’s my next desire? So while they’re with us, we show them how to increase their energy, what to do to shape their relationship, what to do to shape their career. 3 hours a day. It’s like going to a movie, but the movie is your life.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: How where do people find out about this?
TONY ROBBINS: They can go to, it’s called the Time to Rise Summit. So it’s time to rise summit dot com.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: And when is it?
TONY ROBBINS: It’s coming up January 30th, 31st, and February 1st. We do this once a year.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: This is all online. They can access it online.
TONY ROBBINS: They access it through Zoom.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Zoom. Exactly. It’s time to rise. Time to rise summit.com.
TONY ROBBINS: Time to rise summit.com. Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Okay. And that’s open to everyone?
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. To everyone.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. And so that they they can see in real time all the things that we discussed today. And then they they only see it. They can experience it. They can do it, and they can put a plan together for this year instead of some, you know, enthusiasm.
TONY ROBBINS: A vision.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yes.
TONY ROBBINS: Exactly. A vision with a strategy.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s right. Combination.
TONY ROBBINS: You got it.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right. Right. Alright, sir. Well, that’s excellent. And so we’ll put those links in the description as well. I think what we’ll do for those of you who are listening on the Daily Wire side, there’s been a sea change in the political scene. Well, it’s not just the political scene. Right? It’s it’s deeper than that. It’s the cultural scene.
TONY ROBBINS: No. It’s cool.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. I’d like to talk to you about that.
TONY ROBBINS: Right. Right.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: See what you what you think about it and and what you’ve observed. And so–
TONY ROBBINS: Great.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. So for everybody who’s watching and listening, who’s inclined to join us on the Daily Wire side. And for those of you who are already Daily Wire subscribers, join Tony and I there, and we’ll continue this for, well, the typical half an hour. And in the meantime, thank you very much for your time and attention.
TONY ROBBINS: Thank you very much, sir.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Thank you.
Closing Remarks and Studio Tour
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. We’re in we’re in your basement tonight, today, which is–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: We’re we’re actually in a place that’s underwater. We have ocean on this side.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s also on this side.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. I started playing squash. And my my my friends are, you know, you had I had to go drive 20 minutes. And if you’re nice, it’s 20 minutes of pictures and put so it’s a couple hours to to work out. It was like, I need a place. And I said, well, you got 25,000 square feet several acres, but there’s no place to put it. I said, we’re doing it down here. And he said, what do you mean down here? He goes, it’s below the water table. I said, do you ever–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah.
TONY ROBBINS: Been to Atlantis? Have you ever been to Scripps Scripps Oceanography? And they said, yeah. I said, build a submarine–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Well, you tell the story.
TONY ROBBINS: Well, it’s it’s a very comical story. There’s a garage above us, and in the garage, there’s a trapdoor, which is, stainless steel. And if you open up the stainless steel trap–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You just walk up to it.
TONY ROBBINS: There’s a stainless steel slide, and that slides you down. It’s kind of lit up with purple lights, which is, you know, very disco y and comical. And it slows you down nicely so you don’t land on your tea kettle at the bottom. And, and then you’re in this–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: But it turns into your evil supervillain lair, which is extremely comical.
TONY ROBBINS: Well, you you got guys well, you know, I got Tom Brady, Ray Dalio. It was like, come here. Everybody comes a kid when they come down. That’s what I do.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. It’s very fun. And I want to make sure fun is part of life. You–
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. You know, I’m a serious mofa. I want to change the world, but I I create a structure. Do it crazy. As well.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Right? This art conference that we run, this alliance for responsible citizenship, that’s February 17th to 19th, by the way, for those of you who are watching and listening. And there are now tickets available to this. This is the first time we’ve done this at artforum.com. One of our rules is that we want to do it with a sense of play.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: You know, one of the things I figured out, I think this is right, is that the antithesis of power, like compulsion and force, is play.
TONY ROBBINS: Yes. I agree. The opposite. Play is power.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. A different form of power.
TONY ROBBINS: Well, it’s the kind of power that sustains and improves and requires no compulsion.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s right. Right. And that you enjoy while you’re doing it.
TONY ROBBINS: That’s right. For reasons that aren’t sadistic, let’s say.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: So alright. So everybody can join us on the daily wear side for the 30 minute conclusion of this discussion. We’ll turn our attention to cultural issues and well, into the current political scene. So join us there. Thanks, Tony.
TONY ROBBINS: Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Thanks to all your viewers and listeners for watching and taking the time.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah. To the crew here, thank you very much for setting this up.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. That was it it’s it’s, very helpful to me and to all the viewers and listeners to have these, podcasts made accessible wherever I’m traveling.
TONY ROBBINS: An army of beautiful people here. Maybe–
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They’re very–
TONY ROBBINS: Looks like it’s just you and me.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: It’s not just you.
TONY ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Army.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: They’re very enthusiastic and hardworking and and–
TONY ROBBINS: Good people.
DR. JORDAN B. PETERSON: That’s a precondition for making this successful. Okay, everybody. Ciao. Good to talk to you.
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