Transcript: COVID Whistleblower Dr. Andrew Huff on Tucker Carlson Show

This has been gnawing at me, you know, where did COVID come from and how was the US government implicated? It clearly was. But you never meet anyone who can say that they know the players, but you do.

So with that, you show up there, you become VP of EcoHealth Alliance, the now famous EcoHealth Alliance. And when did you start to realize this wasn’t the World Wildlife Fund?

Discovering the Truth About EcoHealth Alliance

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Shortly after I was working there. So I was hired as a senior scientist to take over a—what I learned after the fact, I was sort of lied to—but it was a failing department that was doing predictive forecasting and analytics. And after I brought in all that money from the Department of Defense, I actually sort of saved EcoHealth Alliance. It was financially on the rocks. That $4 million really transformed the organization.

And with that, and my expertise in technology, I was actually improving the systems and technology company-wide. Peter Daszak, who is the president or CEO of EcoHealth Alliance, liked everything that I was doing. He was very impressed.

TUCKER CARLSON: Peter Daszak is like a figure out of history now. I mean, Peter Daszak is like at the very center of—

DR. ANDREW HUFF: COVID. Oh, absolutely, and we’ll get to that. So Peter promotes me to vice president and I start attending executive meetings and I get involved in all the different other aspects of the company or at least visibility to what’s going on.

The main driver funding of EcoHealth Alliance was from this program called Predict. And Predict was funded by USAID to go out and conduct global surveillance of infectious diseases to predict and forecast emerging pandemics. At least that’s what they were telling everyone they were going to do.

TUCKER CARLSON: That seems like a virtuous thing to do, by the way.

The USAID Predict Program: A Giant Boondoggle

DR. ANDREW HUFF: No, and it seemed completely virtuous. And I had actually been doing that type of research my entire career, at least as a scientist and engineer. And I was doing that type of work at the National Laboratory. I continued that work funded by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency when I was at EcoHealth Alliance. That’s where the first big check comes from for $4.6 million.

And once I’m promoted and I’m looking at this USAID Predict program, I decided to go dig into the literature and all the technical reports to see what this is and how it actually works. And I read through this phone book of material and I assess that it’s a giant boondoggle.

There’s no way that they’re going to be able to predict or forecast infectious diseases. They weren’t collecting enough samples globally or in the countries where they were collecting them. They weren’t collecting the data on a systematic and routine basis, which is one of the fundamental core concepts in biosurveillance. And you start to ask the question, well, what?

TUCKER CARLSON: So this is your area. I should just say, like you’ve done a lot of research into how do you model this out? Like how do you collect the data, how do you analyze it?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I make the bold claim that I’m probably one of the world’s leading experts in the area. I’m one of the few people to actually predict and forecast infectious diseases before they’ve occurred. And I’ve done it in peer-reviewed literature and I was actually so bold when I built my models and tested them.

I actually had this published in, I think it was the Guardian newspaper and the New York Post before the outbreak hit. And this was the Zika—remember Zika virus?

TUCKER CARLSON: Very well.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah. I was working at EcoHealth Alliance. One of the models that I developed actually forecasted the amount of Zika virus that we’d receive in the United States and where specifically, and I published that before it happened.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you were very familiar with the technical details of a study of this kind of monitoring of this, like, how big does the sample have to be in order to do this?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, so the devil’s always in the details. It depends on the characteristics of the infectious disease agent, the population, where that population is located, the type of infrastructure. There’s a lot of technical nuance because it’s how healthy is the population? What is the probability that they’ll be exposed to something?

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And then what will be—what were the—what are the likely transmission dynamics within that population? And does it have the ability to go from a small isolated outbreak to an epidemic to a pandemic?

TUCKER CARLSON: So, but because this is your specific area, you look at the details of what EcoHealth Alliance, your new employer, is now doing, and it’s immediately obvious to you, like instantly obvious, that this is not real.

The Deception Revealed

DR. ANDREW HUFF: It wasn’t real. And the real crazy aspect here is that once I’m promoted, I’m going to all these different meetings with the funders of the program. So Dr. Dennis Carroll, who is the program manager, program director at USAID, who had a very close relationship with Dr. Peter Daszak, and these fundraising events we’re doing where we’re telling everyone that we’re going to go, we’re going to forecast and predict these emerging infectious diseases that can cause pandemics.

And I’m sitting in the audience and I’m watching my boss and these other people telling everyone that they’re doing this. And as I mentioned, if you look at the technical reports, it’s just very clear that this is not technically possible. So it begs the question, as me being an ethical person and a good scientist and engineer, what are we doing here?

TUCKER CARLSON: Because we’re not doing the thing we said we were doing.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Exactly. And, you know, it gets sort of darker than that real quick. So once I’m sitting in these executive meetings, one of the first meetings that I sit in is a budget—a budget forecasting meeting for the company. And each vice president in charge of the area is going on talking about our budget, how our employees are doing, you know, operations types of things, typical corporate stuff.

And I asked the question because, I mean, well, how much money are we spending on wildlife conservation? Because when I interviewed at the company and all our branding and marketing messaging was that we’re doing infectious disease research to protect wildlife and engage in conservation activities or something to that effect.

And the room goes quiet and I’m looking at everyone and why isn’t everyone sort of staring into space or staring at me? And eventually Peter Daszak looks at me and with sort of a maniacal laugh says, “We’re not doing any conservation work.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Like a nightmare.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah. And I’m just shocked. And, you know, I came directly from the national laboratory system, Sandia National Laboratories, and I was trying to get away from that type of work. I was actually excited to go work at a crunchy granola nonprofit organization where I was protecting wildlife.

TUCKER CARLSON: The Audubon Society.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah. And as we were discussing earlier, we’re both avid outdoorsmen, we love nature, that kind of thing. And I thought I was going to get into more of that. I was excited, like, hey, maybe I’ll get a chance to have a trip out to the woods or the jungle and go protect some wildlife.

And I hear this and I’m like, okay. And, you know, I digest it. Of course, I don’t say anything. It’s my boss, the other executives. And then it drives more questions, you know, what are we doing here?

Building a Library of Infectious Diseases

So I sat in more executive meetings. I learned more, and I quickly learned that we’re sort of functioning as a Beltway bandit type of operation, meaning that we’re trying to get large contracts and grants in our area, which is in theory, predicting and forecasting infectious diseases.

But really what we were doing—the simplest way of explaining is that we were running around the planet collecting infectious disease samples to build a bank or a library of infectious diseases, which was odd.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m sorry to keep laughing. This is so dark. I can’t help it.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, it was odd from the standpoint. I was still looking at this as a scientist trying to figure out what we were doing. And there’s not a ton of publication value in cataloging infectious diseases. You can get one simple publication from identifying a new or novel pathogen in a species, but it’s sort of a one and done thing. It doesn’t really drive future research. Right?

So if you discover something, it’s great you found it, it’s a publication. But that’s not going to drive your next cycle of funding because typically you want to be very strategic about this.

Well, then if you start to look at the other portfolio of research at EcoHealth Alliance and what some of my peers, other vice presidents in their areas of research, what they’re up to and the places where our employees had joint employment or co-employment with and the work that they were doing, it became apparently obvious we were engaging in gain of function research and viral discovery to make new novel pathogens and I wanted nothing to do with it.

The Real Purpose: Creating New Viruses

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, rather than like predicting the threat to human and wildlife populations, you’re actually just creating new deadly viruses.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Exactly.

TUCKER CARLSON: And this is not what they advertised on LinkedIn.

The Intelligence Collection Operation

No, this is. Well it wasn’t even LinkedIn, it was actually after your website. But you get it. The funny part is if you look at the gain of function work and how they were even spinning it was that they were trying to even make the argument scientifically in the peer reviewed literature that this gain of function work that they were doing, and this was through Dr. Ralph Baric’s Laboratory at the University of North Carolina, that they could model and simulate pandemic potential from the gain of function work.

And that in itself is a scientific fraud in my opinion. It’s not really possible to predict how a disease will spread in the community either. Animals, humans, wildlife, from looking at the genetics and doing gain of function work. But that’s what the argument that they were effectively making.

Back to the US government and other sponsors of our research portfolio in my book I discussed this, but, you know, Dr. Anthony Fauci gets a lot of the blame for this gain of function work. And I wrote numerous whistleblower complaints. I think I wrote whistleblower complaints to every U.S. agency involved. DOD, DHS, USDA, Fish and Wildlife. It’s a long list. The CIA, which we can get to in a little bit.

So it’s very clear that the research that we’re doing had an earlier origin than Dr. Anthony Fauci, and that’s really USAID and maybe the State Department, formulating a relationship with the Chinese at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And if you follow the proposals or scientific proposals and technical proposals which were submitted to the US Government and trace that back, and I have all the original documents to prove this, it looks like the path for developing the gain of function partnership with the Chinese bioweapons Lab began around 2010 or 2011.

TUCKER CARLSON: What was the purpose of that relationship?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, at the time, I had no idea. And this is specifically, I’m talking like 2015, 2016.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

The CIA Connection

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Fast forward to today, I have much more information where I can sort of, you know, I thought about this in great detail and had a number of other interviews. And I came to the conclusion that the real purpose actually of EcoHealth Alliance doing this gain of function research with the Wuhan Institute of Virology was for us to collect intelligence on the Chinese bioweapons lab.

And, you know, I had this very interesting moment when I worked at EcoHealth Alliance, where it was around the holidays, I think it was in late 2015. I was working late to finish our project, and Dr. Daszak was working late on project. And actually, as a coworker working with Dr. Peter Daszak was fantastic. He was extremely hard worker, very diligent. He knew the publication game. He knew how to woo the people, the program sponsors that were funding our work.

So professionally, I loved working with him in that aspect. Smart. Very. Well, I would say cunning. Yeah. I don’t think he was much of a scientist, actually. I think he’s very weak as a scientist and engineer. But in terms of a project manager and a program manager, he was very, very strong.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So we’re leaving, we’re locking up the office. We’re in the vestibule up on the 15th floor of our building in New York City. And he goes, “Andrew, do you mind if I ask you a question?” It’s my boss. “Sure, Peter, go ahead.” “Well, somebody from the CIA approached me, and they’re interested in the places we’re working, the people we’re working with and the data that we’re collecting. Do you think it’s a good idea that I speak with them?”

And he just said a lot of things which just set off all my alarms because I came from the, you know, I’m a product of, you know, the so called deep state of the national security complex. I held the top secret clearance and here’s my boss telling me that he had a side conversation with the CIA. And I have all these immediate thoughts. Was he really talking to someone from the CIA? Was it someone pretending to be from the CIA?

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Because I’m like, does this guy know what he’s dealing with? Exactly. You know, I had to say something. I said, “Peter, it never hurts to speak with him, there could be money in it.” And it was, I think, a very honest, direct assessment of what he had just told me. We made small talk, we went down the elevator and we went our separate ways. I walked home to my place up on 45th street and that was the end of it.

Well over the next, you know, several weeks, in between meetings at the coffee cooler, I had to ask Peter, I’m like, “Hey, how’s that thing with the CIA going?” And you know, he wouldn’t say much but you know, sort of indicated that it was progressing. And about the third time I asked him, he was mum about it, he didn’t want to talk about it anymore.

And so I don’t know if he was trying to tell me what he was actually up to because I was from that world or if he just really wanted my honest opinion. I have no idea. But now fast forward to SARS-CoV-2 COVID and everything that’s happened. It’s very clear to me that Peter Daszak was probably used as a CIA asset to obtain access to that laboratory in the way that we obtained access to that laboratory.

Because mind you, it was well known in my circles, going all the way back to when I was a PhD student, that this laboratory in Wuhan was essentially the Chinese military’s bioweapons laboratory. So how would you get access to it? Right, they’re not going to allow Westerners to just come in.

The Real Trade With China

And where Senator Rand Paul and a number of other congressmen have been completely wrong about this in my opinion, and I’ve told them so in writing, is that this wasn’t the US government giving the Chinese $400,000 to conduct gain of function research. I mean, just think about how preposterous this is.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, they don’t need the money.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: They don’t need the money. Right, so what do they need? What do you think?

TUCKER CARLSON: Technical expertise, I would think.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And what else? The actual technology. So the technical expertise and the technology. So the trade that was made is that we were actually transferring advanced biotechnology from Dr. Ralph Baric’s laboratory to the Chinese for access to the laboratory so we could collect intelligence on it. And some of that might fall under the umbrella of scientific diplomacy, which I’m actually a huge proponent of, but not with the Chinese. And that’s where I…

TUCKER CARLSON: So I don’t know, I have no way to evaluate what you’re saying, except against things I’ve seen in other areas. And that is exactly how the world works. What you just said, that is, that’s how things really are, right? Is the US government makes deals with people that they’re not really on their, you know, whoever it is, Gaddafi, Maduro, I mean there’s long standing and ongoing relationships with a lot of people. I think the public would be shocked to know we’re in relationship with. But the motive is always the same. The closer I get, the more intelligence I gather.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I think your assessment of the global scheme of how the US government operates and formulates relationships is accurate.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I’ve seen it.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And I think a lot of that is doctrine. They want to try to obtain close relationships with the highest ranking government officials possible. And sometimes the methods and how they do that are questionable.

TUCKER CARLSON: But it’s always the same. I mean you’ll be literally happening the other day, you’re talking to, you know, well informed person and they’re like “Oh yeah, yeah, I knew so and so” it’s like what, what? How in the world were you connected to that person who’s bad? You’ve kind of the human equivalent of the Wuhan Institute of Virology and it’s like, well, because like that person is someone who has a lot of information that we want.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Oh absolutely. And I’ve met a number of intel agents from various agencies that showed me pictures of the very high profile evil people that they’re working with.

TUCKER CARLSON: Of course.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And I actually have no problem…

TUCKER CARLSON: Muammar Gaddafi was working with Mossad and CIA. Yeah, right. So of course. And I’m not even attacking anybody at all. I’m just saying that is the actual truth of the world that I have seen personally. So.

Objecting to the China Partnership

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And I agree with your truth. And I think the more questionable part is why are we giving advanced technology to our enemies? And where this really gets strange is that when I did work at EcoHealth Alliance, I did object to working with the Chinese. So the next phase of PREDICT funding is coming along. PREDICT 2.

TUCKER CARLSON: Okay. Okay. So PREDICT is the program that you described earlier that supposedly monitors global wildlife populations to get a head start on preparing for a pandemic.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, to predict and forecast it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Predict and forecast it.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So maybe, maybe get a head start. Could be a more accurate framework or at least have an assessment of what’s circulating in area. That’s probably a fair characterization. But PREDICT 2, they’re basically going to continue this boondoggle operation and expand the portfolio research with China.

And once I was promoted to vice president, they put me onto the PREDICT program at my own request because it was sort of the sexy thing that EcoHealth Alliance was doing, and I wanted to be a part of it because you get my name on more publications, more notoriety, and they wanted to make me a country coordinator. And I ended up being one of the country coordinators for Sudan and then also Jordan, and then Peter Daszak floated that I help him with China.

And when that came up in the meeting, I said, “I want nothing to do with this.” And, you know, still with my top secret clearance in good standing, I object to us doing the work with China. And I actually said in the meeting, like, “Aren’t you the slightest bit concerned that the Chinese are going to do something nefarious like they’re going to steal our intellectual property? The Chinese have a pattern of lie, cheat, and steal. So why do we want to do this work with China?”

And I said that in the executive meeting, and I was trying to protect the company more. So even just the national security risk side of it, I was trying to protect the company. And Peter gave a very political response that the work with China is very important, and this relationship that we have with the Chinese is very important.

Really, I think the only thing that was important to Peter is the fact that this Chinese, at least cut out of the bigger contract, was a lot of money. Exactly. And, you know, he had already been sort of flipped as an intel asset to collect on the Chinese in the lab. And this wasn’t going away. And this was all the window dressing to make it look legitimate.

TUCKER CARLSON: We’re sorry to say it, but this is not a very safe country. Walk through Oakland or Philadelphia.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah, good luck.

TUCKER CARLSON: So again, I don’t have any background information so like you could tell me anything, but everything you’re saying sounds right to me just based on what I have seen. Can I just back up a tiny bit and ask some practical questions about what EcoHealth Alliance was doing? So you said before you got to the portion where they were acting as an intel asset, which sounds right. You said they were compiling, collecting a library of viruses from around the world. How does that work? Like how do you collect a virus in Sudan for example, any country. How do you do that?

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Geoengineering Technology and Satellite Systems

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, that’s interesting that you bring that up. So I used to work with the geoengineers and I wonder how much scale it’s actually occurring. People talk about contrails and that being geoengineering. It’s not. Most of these stations are ground based, but it’s very expensive from a scientific and engineering perspective.

If you were going to launch a large scale geoengineering project that was Earth based, it takes a lot of material and that material costs a lot of money. So I don’t think it’s happening at the largest scale that people believe.

The more effective geoengineering technology that exists are actually satellite deployed systems which act as solar shades. And I don’t think any of that exists. But we are putting more things into space all the time. And a lot of this is either not classified or secret, but it’s not exactly visible either. So who knows what people are shooting up there.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. And there’s a massive disinformation campaign against anyone who has questions about it, which tells you it is real. Like UAPs, but anyway, without getting into all of that stuff. So you are asked like, “Hey Dr. Huff, would you like to go to China?” And you say no.

Declining China Collaboration

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I say no. And two reasons. One, to protect the company and also because I wanted to maintain my security clearance in good standing. It’s not that you can’t have foreign relationships, but it becomes more complicated for your reinvestigation in the future if you have relationships with a country like China.

From a national security perspective, I’ve always been against what the Chinese have been doing. It’s lying, cheating and stealing from us. And we never get anything out of the relationship. It’s been a very abusive one way relationship from the Chinese.

I knew this going back to my military days and I had actually been invited to do other collaborative work with the Chinese at other institutions, places I’ve worked sort of tied to national security. And I always stayed away from it because I never saw any benefit to it. If the government wants to, the US government wants to fund this or this entity wants to fund it, that’s fine. I can protest by just not being a part of it.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you leave EcoHealth Alliance after a few years, then COVID happens.

The DARPA Recruitment Attempt

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes. And when it happens, everyone thinks I’m sort of the crazy one. How this actually transpires is I was working at Juul Labs, the e-cigarette company, as a senior director of population health living in the Bay Area. Because of what I did for a living and my expertise, I catch wind of this virus spreading around the planet.

It was very obvious that people on the west coast were becoming sick in late November, December 2019. Another really weird thing happens. So I’m making more money than I’ve ever made in my life at this company and I was very grateful for that. I was able to pay off all my debt.

But I received a phone call from a woman by the name of Dr. Amy Jenkins who works at ARPA-H now. I think she’s the assistant director there or deputy director. I can’t remember what her title is, but I know Amy from years back. I actually met her while I was a PhD student at the University of Minnesota at a Department of Homeland Security Center of Excellence.

She had shown up to a few meetings of ours. She was working with the Department of Defense at that time and the entire intelligence services. She’s a great scientist and very friendly. I had a good relationship with her. And she contacts me and she informs me that she’s now working with DARPA and offers me a position as a program manager in the Biological Programs Directorate.

I thought it was sort of odd that she had contacted me on my brand new San Francisco area cell phone. So I had a new phone number because I relocated and I wanted a San Francisco area code. I didn’t think too much of it. And I couldn’t figure out though why she wanted me to come be the director of this biological program.

I’d been trying to get away from national security intelligence type work for several years and I kept getting dragged back into it, it seemed. And I said, “You know, thanks, Amy. I’m not really interested in this right now. I’m making a lot of money. This pays far more than what DARPA can pay me. I want to keep what I’m doing.”

She’s like, “Well, you know, go home and speak with your wife Emily. If you change your mind, we’d like to both bring you on. We’ll find a home for Emily too, because she’s a scientist.” That’s very common in the scientific community, the two body problem. “Go home, talk, speak with Emily about it and give me a call back tomorrow and let me know what you think.”

I said, “Okay, Amy, I’ll do that.” So I went home, had a conversation with my wife. “Hey, do you want to move back to the Beltway or move to D.C. to have fed jobs and go work in that environment?” And my wife had previously worked at USDA and she didn’t want to go back to it.

I called up Amy the next day. “Thank you for contacting me. At one point, this was in my career, this was actually my dream job to be running, to have a blank check from the Department of Defense to go develop all the coolest biotechnology in the world.” I mean, seriously, I had dreamed of that job at one point in my life. I didn’t want it anymore.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And so I told her no. And she’s like, “Well, you know, if you change your mind in the next few weeks, we’d really like to have you. Call me anytime.” And that was it.

Well, that phone call took place late September, early October 2019. Fast forward to today with what we know. DARPA had held a contest, or I want to say not so much a contest, but put out an RFP, request for proposals, related to something called PREEMPT, which was Preventing Emerging Infectious Disease Threats.

And one of the proposals was something called DEFUSE from my former employer called EcoHealth Alliance, which was basically the recipe for SARS-CoV-2, which was done in partnership with the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

So I’m sort of hopping around here, but the reason why this is important is now I believe that DARPA was actually trying to recruit me back into the program so I wouldn’t have done any of the things that I’ve done over the last four years, essentially.

TUCKER CARLSON: Tell the truth in public.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Tell the truth in public about what the origin of SARS-CoV-2 is.

Preparing for the Pandemic

But going back on your timeline here, so I had limited information back then and I knew a pandemic was coming. So I told my wife, “We need to get the heck out of the Bay Area as fast as possible. This could go off the rails.”

I actually believed the information I was seeing, which I think was a psyop potentially targeted at me, that this disease would be much more severe than it was. I’m not saying that it wasn’t a severe disease. I mean, it wasn’t as bad as they were making it seem.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I believed it too. Oh, absolutely.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, they portrayed it though. In epidemiology…

TUCKER CARLSON: You mean in like January, February of 2020?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Correct.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, yeah.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So they’re painting a portrayal. Scientifically in epidemiology we have something called the case fatality rate. So of how many people get sick, how many die? They were saying this thing is going to kill everyone. Like 80, 90% of the population could die from this disease. That’s how they were portraying this.

It turns out that that number was much lower, somewhere in the percentage category, not the 70, 80 or 90%. So I went real quick from thinking that this was going to be the thing that could cripple society to being, “I’m not wearing a mask in public.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: But my behavior and action in early 2020, the first weeks, I started looking for a place in a remote area. So I’m considering Alaska, Maine, northern Maine, western Wyoming, or the U.P. of Michigan.

My search criteria, based on what I knew as an expert: you want to have access to an airport, transportation, high speed Internet, an hour drive from a major city center that’s not too populated. Because if it’s going to end the planet, it’s going to kill everyone. You want distance from other people to break transmission cycles. At least you can isolate yourself.

So I bought a year’s supply worth of MREs. I started stockpiling other things, some ammunition, made a plan, and my wife and I landed in the U.P. of Michigan. Everyone thought I was crazy for doing this. And next thing you know, everybody wants to come visit me during the lockdowns. They said, “You were right about everything.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

Connecting the Dots to EcoHealth Alliance

DR. ANDREW HUFF: In the back of my mind, though, I’m thinking constantly that I know that EcoHealth Alliance had been engaged in this gain of function work at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. And I’m like, “A bad coronavirus emerging in Wuhan?”

I’m watching the news and the TV through 2020, and they’re like, “Oh, it was a pangolin or it was the wet market.” And I’m arguing on social media that that’s just not possible. That doesn’t make sense from an emerging infectious disease standpoint, because the specific wet market in China is a seafood market. That’s why it’s called a wet market. But Western Americans…

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not for mammals.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: It’s for creatures of the sea.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: People in the United States have a very myopic view of the world typically. And I’m sitting here arguing. I’m like, “This is a fish market.” And in fact, I’m looking at the pictures of it, and my assessment is like, “This is the kind of place I’d go buy groceries.” I lived in New York City. Very nice place.

So I’m like, none of this is adding up. And you’re watching the story evolve, and next thing you know, my former boss, Dr. Peter Daszak, is put on the committee that’s sent over by the World Health Organization to go investigate the origin of the disease. And this is getting weirder and weirder and weirder.

And I know all the players involved. I mean, I had met and worked with not Dr. Anthony Fauci himself, but his deputy, Dr. Morens. I had been out to dinner with him. I mean, I knew all the players in this big thing. I had been groomed since I was a PhD student to be a Dr. Anthony Fauci replacement or that type of person.

So I mean, I knew all the people in the system working on these things, the program managers, the officers, the different branches of the government. I’m watching this all play out and I just can’t believe it. And it’s the kind of thing where I’m yelling at my computer screen in private. Like, “They put f*ing Dr. Daszak in charge of investigating the origin. He’s probably the one that caused it.”

And little did I know that this was all part of the psychological operation and cover up. And I just started becoming more callous and entrenched about what was really going on.

The Psyop Explained

TUCKER CARLSON: So how can you explain that a little bit? What does that mean? Why would putting the guy who had a hand in the creation of the virus in charge of investigating the origin of the virus be part of a psyop?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: To give the perception that it’s an independent person that’s well trusted within the wildlife community and the scientific community. “We know what we’re doing, you can trust what we’re saying.”

Because if you look at how the psychological operation was waged, and I’m not just saying the US government, but multiple entities, the pharmaceutical industry, the big companies that back all these different things, special interests, just generally, you take the guy who’s responsible, you put him in charge of the investigation. You know that he’s not going to tie it back to himself.

But he’s already been branding himself for years and decades as being a person that cares, a crunchy NGO person. And he has the relationships in wealthy communities on the west coast and east coast of the elite to convince them that this is a naturally emerging disease from the wet market.

So he’s already the point man. He’s already sold everyone all this bullshit related to “We’re going to go and forecast pandemics.” And really, he’s the guy who caused one. It’s really…

The Psychology of Deception

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, thank you for saying. I just wanted you to explain that a little more fully. I’ve again lived this, seen it, and it is effective because it’s so shocking that someone would do that. It’s so brazen, the chutzpah required to do something like that. You take not just like some random guy, but the guy who’s responsible and you start telling everyone he’s the savior. Wow, man. The human brain, a normal person is bewildered by that, is thrown off balance by that.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, at least in my life, and we were discussing this a little bit at breakfast. The more that you see of this trickery, the more that you’re exposed to. And then they actually talk about this in the psychological research. Oftentimes the more aware you become of a phenomenon, the more you see it. And then once you start seeing it, you can’t stop seeing it. And that’s how they say people become conspiracy theorists because they see the conspiracy theorists.

TUCKER CARLSON: And well, that’s why very few young people. I think this is changing fast. But my whole life, like young people always bought the story. And then you meet guys in their 70s, particularly people who’d work for the government. And I’ve known a lot of those who would get more conspiracy minded as they aged. Have you ever noticed this?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Oh absolutely, yeah. And that’s just…

TUCKER CARLSON: Why is that?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, experience living life and I do that now. I’m 43 and you see someone in their 20s or 19, they have a very idealistic view of the world. And I used to be one of those people.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh yeah. Oh, tell me about it. I made it to my late 30s with that, you know, but mid-30s, but anyway. Wow, that’s wild. So you’re sitting up at the UP with your scientist wife watching this stuff on CNN going, you must be like going bonkers watching this.

Becoming a Target

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, internally and I was working on a startup company and I was distracted by other things and because I was in the UP, this was only via social media or the news. So I’m pretty detached from it. What happens is in late 2021, the Operation Trends focus towards me because now I’m being, I think, viewed as a threat based on some of the things I put on LinkedIn at the time and other social media posts that I could, I needed to be contained in some way.

TUCKER CARLSON: And what sort of things were you saying?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So it was really Dr. Malone and I and a few other people who were trying to remain anonymous. I know who they are. We’re just telling the truth. So first of all around the disease that this is not a naturally emerging pathogen. And I could tell that it was not based on a number of facts based how this disease was spreading, the type of agent. It was the coincidence that we had been funding this exact type of work. And I had the original documents at this laboratory.

It was just that their story and how the people involved were saying things about the disease just which weren’t true and how specifically how this type of disease would emerge. I mean that’s what my PhD is in. I mean I’ve worked in this field and I knew, I knew that these people knew that they were lying because these people were qualified experts as well. So why are these people lying about how this disease would emerge? Great question.

And so they, you, it drives more questions, right? Every time you have something that’s weird, it doesn’t fit the pattern or isn’t the thing that it’s supposed to be, you ask more questions. And as this, you know, the timeline of COVID is happening or occurring, you know, so we’re going through the lockdowns, they’re trying to get the vaccine Operation Warp Speed. They’re trying to do all these things, that’s all distracting everyone from the origin question and the people involved in the origin discussions and the psychological operation of it was that in my opinion is that they were actually trying to get society bogged down in the technical details of very sophisticated scientific jargon which very few people were qualified to understand or argue or debate and then label it as those people were the only people who were qualified experts to be able to debate.

So therefore there was no debate allowed. And I wasn’t buying. I was, I wasn’t having it. It was driving me nuts.

TUCKER CARLSON: Because you were a qualified expert, so you didn’t have to buy it.

Winning the Information War

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, and I’m highly competitive and those so-called qualified experts, I thought I was better than them. Yeah. And I look at it where we’re sitting today. I’m sitting here in this chair speaking with you, telling you the truth. And I think my argument, the psychological operation I wage back against the population via social media and other channels and how it is been completely successful.

How does the, I mean, from day one I had been saying that this was a laboratory leak. And you look at most of the population today, everyone I think globally believes that it came out of the laboratory. I think the people are tied to it, you know, are still trying to make the pangolin or natural emergency eco…

TUCKER CARLSON: I went on the EcoHealth, I think EcoHealth Alliance is gone or sort of gone now.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Defunct.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, defunct. Yeah. But on their website, which still exists, I looked at it last night. They have an attack on you, of course, lacking all specifics, you’re familiar with all this. But on it they say, you know, Dr. Huff makes the totally unsubstantiated claim that this virus escaped from a lab when we know in the scientific consensus states that it emerged naturally out of an animal population.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, the next, when they wrote that…

TUCKER CARLSON: They knew that wasn’t true.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Oh absolutely. And they put out other weird smear tactics and they had worked with the media to smear me. The best, my favorite smear. So the day that my publication came out, there was a story, I think that ran in the New York Post and it claimed that I was wrong, that I had never worked in the Wuhan lab. Well, that was attribution error. I never had claimed that I worked…

TUCKER CARLSON: In fact, you just explained you didn’t want to work in China.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Correct. But that’s how they were trying to scope the argument that I was a liar.

Media as a Vector for Disinformation

TUCKER CARLSON: The New York Post that would not surprise me. And I just want to say for the record, the New York Post is one of the most dishonest publications in the world and is very often used by the intel agencies and other bad actors to lie to the public. It’s also hilarious. It’s a great newspaper in certain ways. And so it’s the, and same with Daily Mail. Exactly the same.

And they sort of lull you into believing them because they’ve got a sense of humor and they cover great stories and they’re sort of vaguely right wing, but actually it’s a vector for disinformation and for lying on behalf of the intel agencies. That’s just what it is.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: That’s most mainstream media. I think it is.

TUCKER CARLSON: It is. But I think the New York Post and Daily Mail are at Wall Street Journal, also Fox News, for sure. But they’re more sinister because people believe them. Because, hey, it’s Fox News, it’s the deal. It’s the Daily Mail, it’s the New York Post, especially the New York Post. Like everyone, headless body and topless bar, man, it’s the coolest paper in the world. They wouldn’t do that. Well, they do it constantly.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I agree. I mean, what do you do about it when you’re little, man?

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, you tell the truth about it. That’s all you can do.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: But…

TUCKER CARLSON: And they’ll, I mean, all those companies are failing and they’ll all be gone soon. And I won’t lament their passing. But anyway, so tell me what they did to contain, control and punish you once you started telling the truth.

The Defuse Proposal

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So in late, the timeline starting to get a little foggy. This has been ongoing saga. I think it was in late 2021 or mid to late 2021. I was contacted by some journalists. So journalists are trying to contact me and ask me questions because they figure they’re probably wondering who’s this tough guy? Does he know he’s talking about. They’re probably trying to frame me as a crazy.

Miranda Devine contacts me, pretty prominent journalist and asks me on the telephone where she should look for more records related to the scan of function research. And because I had worked in this field for a year and knew all the players, I’m like, I don’t know. My gut tells me I’d go look at DARPA.

And I believe that conversation was being listened into. I think, I believe they were already watching me, obviously going back into October 2019. That’s when it triggers something within the intel community where I had found out now secondhand that there was a false allegation that someone had leaked classified information to me. Nobody’s ever leaked classified information to me because one, they don’t typically target the person that was leaked to. They target the leaker. Okay? And I would be arrested and be in jail if and that were true.

And when I told that to Miranda Devine, this is based on my expert opinion. I knew the people who were finding the work pre, the preempt all these different things. I knew the players. So you go look at the funding sources to identify proposals and things that had been submitted.

And I don’t know if this is related or not, but a week or two after I had that conversation, Major Murphy from the US Marine Corps had that puts out a whistleblower disclosure that there’s this thing called the Defuse Proposal, which is basically the recipe of how to make SARS-CoV-2. And it was done in partnership with the Chinese and a number of scientists in the US and the primary sponsor, the primary company engaging this work was EcoHealth Alliance.

So every name on the Defuse Proposal, I know those people or I know of them and what work they were doing. And everyone discredited this Defuse Proposal because this is not a real proposal. This looks like a joke. It’s two pages. It looks very haphazard.

And I started making the argument to people, no, this is very real. DARPA does business differently than other government agencies. They use this thing called High Myers Catechism. You have to answer a series of questions. Proposals, they only want a page or two. They don’t want a big NIH proposal, which is very technical, could be full length, 100, 200 pages of material. They only typically want a one or two page proposal. And I tell people this is how DARPA does business. But since nobody in the real world knows how the business works in these…

TUCKER CARLSON: Not a lot of people you run into at Starbucks have done business with DARPA.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Exactly. And that’s how they then start the psychological operation around the Defuse Proposal State.

TUCKER CARLSON: For those who aren’t familiar, we just tell viewers what DARPA is.

Understanding DARPA

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah. So DARPA is the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. It used to be ARPA before they added the D before it. So Advanced Research Projects Agency, it’s actually made most of the coolest technology that we have or one of the companies or entities that’s federally funded that has the Internet. So everything on the Internet was developed by ARPA, then ARPANET.

And if you are a tech nerd like me and you start digging down the DNS queries of how you search for information. You dig down, you start pulling up the tables of information. Eventually you get to something that says ARPANET in every communication that we do. So they make the most sophisticated stuff in the world.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it’s a Pentagon funded research lab basically.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes. Well not necessarily just a research lab. It I’d call it more of it covers a program area or series of program areas where some of the research is done by private contractors, FFRDCs, basically anybody who can, who can do the work. And they fund high risk, high value scientific R&D on short timelines.

So you don’t receive 10, 10 years of funding. The Department of Defense, rightfully so is what capability will this give us within a year or two? Yeah, three years. They have a short, short horizon. It’s no nonsense. And they want results and they achieve them.

TUCKER CARLSON: Interesting. That’s a great description from someone who’s worked with them. So anyway, you have this conversation with Miranda Devine and you now believe that conversation was monitored and what happens next?

Being Followed

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well then I start because my profile is increasing and I’m starting to be actually followed by people out in the UP when I like go to the grocery store. Very strange.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right, UP is the upper peninsula of Michigan. It’s not actually near the state of Michigan really. It’s a geographic anomaly, but it is very lightly populated and extremely rural. It’s one of the most rural places east of the Mississippi if this is a fair description.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes, it’s actually the most rural place in the lower 48.

TUCKER CARLSON: By 48?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes, by population density.

TUCKER CARLSON: So when you’re getting followed in the U.P., you know it?

Living Off-Grid and Being Surveilled

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Oh, absolutely. I mean the house, the pandemic prepper house that we purchased, it’s 180 acres, it’s completely off grid. Our driveway’s a mile long and it’s basically like a moat. There’s natural dense swamp on all four sides because the driveway is an old railroad grade. So it’s very isolated.

I joke I could throw a hand grenade off my step and nobody would notice. And because there are mines in the area, there’s blasting and stuff going on, nobody would care. So that’s where I live.

So when you go to the gas station or you go into town, 40 minute drive, and you have someone follow you, have a couple of vehicles tail you, it’s very strange. And I get on Twitter then, before X, and my profile becoming elevated. So one of the first people to contact me was Brett Weinstein, Dr. Brett Weinstein, and then John Yaklich. They start reaching out to me.

So the people who were outspoken and skeptics around all the things start contacting me. And I have a four hour conversation with Brett Weinstein. I walk them through the whole thing, even through the vaccine technology, and I think how it’ll cause—and look today where we are. These mRNA vaccines are causing cancer.

So anyways, I had this great conversation and all of a sudden I feel the pressure, you know, being applied and mounting from being followed, as weird as that is. And because I’m a former top secret clearance holder, I decided to go report this to the FBI.

Reporting to the FBI

So I go to my local FBI field office and I say, “I’m Dr. Andrew Huff, I’m a former top secret clearance holder that worked in this environment. I’m being tailed.” Because you’re supposed to—you sign documents saying that if you report any strange behavior, the rest of your life of being tailed or hacking surveillance, report it to the FBI. So I did.

My wife and I go in there. They seem like they’re taking it very seriously. And I then actually hire a private investigator to cross check what the FBI is doing. And there’s a vehicle that’s following me and I report it to the FBI. The FBI tells me it’s nothing. The private eye tells me that vehicle is registered to the Secretary of State in Michigan. And that’s how they have undercover vehicles.

TUCKER CARLSON: What?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that’s how the FBI has undercover vehicles?

Government Surveillance Network

DR. ANDREW HUFF: That or any other undercover entity. So some federal entity, government agency. It could be the state police, the sheriff’s department. I now know for a fact that it was the state police, my sheriff’s department in Marquette County, and the FBI all working together in hindsight, and probably also with the Department of Defense and the CIA, which is more difficult to prove, but you can sort of see ties and tendrils into that.

So that aside, so I’m being followed. They’re listening to my communications. All this is sort of easy to detect if you’re a person who worked in intelligence and defense. You know how they operate. And so I just started collecting evidence of all the terrible crap.

And my devices were getting hacked weekly. I mean, I’d have to wipe the operating systems, reinstall. And it’s this cat and mouse game as technology is evolving and I’m an engineer. So I just start increasing my security all the time.

And the sad reality is with consumer grade electronics that you buy from Amazon or wherever you get them these days, it’s difficult to defend against the advanced persistent threat. So you’re basically—I spend a lot of time doing network engineering and restoring programs and software because once I get to the point where I’m writing my book, the hacks intensify and it’s definitely coming from the government, probably the pharmaceutical industry or other entities and organizations.

And I try to investigate myself, the source of those hacks and actually know—you follow the IP addresses of their VPN that they backdoor in your system, you can find out who the attacker is. So I do this and I sit on it and it’s gotten to the point where I’m ready to file a large federal lawsuit against the federal government. Cash Patel, who’s supposedly my ally, for $50 million.

Because I’ve identified the FBI agents and everyone involved all the way to the top. I basically ran a counterintelligence operation back against the US government with my training and collected the evidence to prove it.

Break-Ins and Intimidation

I even have fingerprints that I obtained in my house of people who broke into my house. They tased my dog.

TUCKER CARLSON: What?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah, they tased my dog during one of the break-ins.

TUCKER CARLSON: How do you know that?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I mean it leaves a big mark and a burn on the dog’s neck. It was hiding, cowering in the corner. They tased one of my bird dogs. And so this dog was actually—one of the German Shorthair Pointers. Yes, a large female, about 70 pounds, large for that breed.

TUCKER CARLSON: They attacked your dog?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah, they tased the dog and it changed her behavior. She became more timid. She actually should be sort of aggressive for a GSP. And so anyways, yeah, they tased my dog.

They tampered with my vehicles on numerous occasions. And this just didn’t happen in the U.P. This would happen when I go other places. So if I travel for work, say I’d go to Wisconsin, Green Bay, California, they’d tamper with my vehicles there and do really silly stuff psychologically. So they might just buckle your seatbelt before you—so you leave the car and then you come back to your car and everything’s all skewed and they mess with stuff in it.

So I mean it was more of a psychological operation, not like trying to kill me, but they were trying to apply all the pressure that they could to make my life miserable.

I have times, periods where my credit cards might not work. You show up to a gas station, try to run at the pump, it won’t work. So is that the bank screwing with me? The payment system?

I had the controls on my vehicle—I don’t want to say what type of car I have on your show, but a newer vehicle that has automated driving, like assisted driving capabilities—that had been taken over at low speed where I couldn’t control it. And now I’m sort of in the mindset, I’m like, “Oh geez, should we have self-driving cars?”

TUCKER CARLSON: Let me answer that question. No.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s the end of human autonomy. Right. And so 1987 Chevrolet Silverados with the five speed manual transmission.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: You’ll have to take me for a ride later.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s what I drive. Okay, sorry.

Vehicle Tampering

DR. ANDREW HUFF: No, and I thought about that. And so it’s always this battle whether or not we should have these technologies. And here’s the thing I want to point out, they didn’t do these things when I was driving at high speed. It happened at the same place in my driveway systematically where they were doing it to mess with me at a low speed.

And I actually brought one of the vehicles into the manufacturer to have it looked at. And they took a look at it, their corporate mechanic came in and corporate mechanics are special mechanics that look for, I guess, manufacturing errors in the production of the vehicle so that the corporation can correct either the software or physical problem with the vehicle.

And they gave me free repairs based on what they found and they wouldn’t tell me exactly what they found.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, this is all pretty distressing and to think that you’re a patriotic American, served your country, fought and was wounded in Iraq, and for your government to be doing this to you because you’re telling the truth is really kind of like the end. I mean that could happen.

Fighting Back

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah. Well, I took the attitude of I can beat these guys and I’m better than they are and I’m smarter than they are. So this became a game to me and I just went, played the game and I played the game and I outsmarted them every step of the way because their ultimate goal was to prevent me from this story getting out to the global audience.

And I knew that’s what their objective was. And their other objective was to skew me as a crazy. Right. So we’re either going to paint this person as a crazy and we’re going to prevent them. So at least my word or my voice has no impact. And they failed on both accounts.

Because the main thing is I had documented everything that was happening. The license plates, the people calling me, the fingerprints in my house. They’re not my fingerprints. And the best part is I brought those fingerprints to the Marquette County Sheriff’s Department, brought them to the FBI, and I even had a referral from Sandia National Laboratories Counterintelligence, eventually to the FBI telling them to investigate this, and they refuse to run the prints.

TUCKER CARLSON: Have they ever run the prints?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: No. And this is where it gets really interesting. So to this day.

TUCKER CARLSON: To this day. And I still have them.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Why?

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I guess it’s probably someone from law enforcement. That’s what—it’s probably a sheriff’s department employee. It could be someone politically that they used in the operation.

I mean, if you look at how when they want to target someone or individual, and I’m not the first US government scientist to go through this. It’s well documented that the person they blamed for the Bacillus anthracis attacks after 9/11. So you remember the anthrax mailings?

TUCKER CARLSON: Do I remember?

The Anthrax Attacks Parallel

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah. So they pinned that to a guy by the name of Dr. Bruce Ivins.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, first it was Dr. Steven Hatfill.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes. Yeah. And then it was Dr. Bruce Ivins, and they ran an operation on him, which was like COINTELPRO to make him crack. And eventually he kills himself. He can’t handle the pressure. Well, they ran the same type of operation on me. I didn’t crack.

TUCKER CARLSON: I hate to go far afield because this is an amazing story, but you brought it up, so I’m going to have to ask you—give me the Cliff Notes version of what those anthrax attacks actually were, which for people who were not around then, killed a number of people, media employees, anthrax packed envelopes were sent to the newsrooms of a bunch of media organizations. I actually got one at my house. So it was a big deal. This was right after that.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes. So someone who had access to USAMRIID laboratory.

TUCKER CARLSON: Which laboratory?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: USAMRIID. I forget what the acronym stands for. It’s the bioweapons laboratory or biodefense lab in Maryland. Correct?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And so Dr. Bruce Ivins had worked in that laboratory. He worked on vaccine technology and the spores, which are weaponized to be dispersed.

TUCKER CARLSON: And the anthrax spores.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Correct. And what’s unique about these spores is that when they’re weaponized, they go through a process called tinning and what that tinning does, it makes them so that they stay aerosolized. Because if you have Bacillus anthracis, it’s too big of an agent. It just falls to the ground. It sits.

So to weaponize it, you want to make it so it stays dispersed and light and fluffy.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And so Dr. Bruce Ivins was a specialist in that—making these things stay aerosolized and then also developing the countermeasures to it.

So if you’re a real conspiracy theorist, you’d say that someone engaged in the false flagging of the anthrax attacks to promote the anthrax vaccine. Potentially. I mean, that’s one theory that’s out there.

I personally believe from analyzing all the different evidence that Dr. Bruce Ivins is not the person that did it. From my professional network, I know several people that worked directly with him. He’s very much a very soft, loving kind of person. I don’t see this person all of a sudden taking the spores out of his laboratory and then mailing them to people.

This could have been done to continue the biodefense program around Bacillus anthracis as one possible scenario. So anyways, I mean, we’re sort of off track here, but—

TUCKER CARLSON: So there is no—because no one was ever charged with it. And he, as I remember—or was he charged?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I think they were in the process of charging.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, certainly no one was convicted of it.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right. And he killed himself. Well, they say he killed himself. He’s dead in any case. But has any other meaningful suspect ever emerged that you’re aware of?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, I have my opinions of who was likely involved and I don’t want to defame those people. So I’ll give you two points and—

Biodefense Complex and the Anthrax Attacks

TUCKER CARLSON: I hope you won’t use names, but can you just characterize who these people were and what their motive might have been in your view?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: In my opinion, they’re likely associated with the biodefense complex and their motive could have been to create more fear, hostility after 9/11 in the population. It could have been financial. Those are probably the two leading motives as to why that happened, in my expert opinion.

And then actually, you know, in private afterwards, I’ll tell you who I think probably is involved. But me being an expert in biodefense, I mean this is something of one of the first things I did deep dives on, even in fact, in my PhD coursework. It was taught by Dr. Mike Osterholm. And I do not see eye to eye with him on a lot of things. He taught this in his course. This was a case study around biodefense.

The Cooperative Biological Engagement Program

TUCKER CARLSON: There are a lot of bio labs outside this country, I’ve noticed, run by the US Government.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, they’re not really run by the US government. So there’s this thing called the Cooperative Biological Engagement Program, CBEP, and there’s a few other programs. And the idea is we engage in scientific diplomacy with foreign laboratories so our enemies do not become allied with them.

So, for example, the Ukraine labs, I actually was involved in writing some of the proposals for those laboratories. And I can’t say with who under NDA. But here’s the issue. If we don’t engage in those Cooperative Biological Engagement programs with a laboratory like in Ukraine, there’s a very real possibility that the Chinese will or the Russians will.

TUCKER CARLSON: I get it.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So it’s better that we’re working with them.

TUCKER CARLSON: I understand. No, I don’t. But that’s not crazy.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah, I don’t think it’s—

TUCKER CARLSON: Or certainly I understand how people talk themselves into that. And it’s not prima facie insane or evil. What I find obviously insane and evil is the lying about it.

And so, you know, the undersecretary of state said in a Senate hearing a few years ago after the Ukraine war broke out, on camera, under oath. This is Victoria Nuland, architect of the current disaster in Ukraine, that she was worried about the biolabs there. So she said that on camera. So, okay, all right, you said it, honey.

And I played the tape and was immediately attacked by everybody, all the other, you know, CNN and all the other intel community controlled news outlets as like a conspiracy wacko. And there are no bio labs in Ukraine. What are you talking about?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Same.

TUCKER CARLSON: What is that?

The Victoria Nuland Testimony

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I don’t understand how the Biden administration handled the messaging and the communications around. So I don’t know why Ms. Nuland actually said the things or said the things the way that she did.

TUCKER CARLSON: She’s stupid. That’s one of her deepest secrets. She’s an idiot.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: It would have been so much easier just to come on and tell the truth. We have this thing called the Cooperative Biological Engagement Program and we had relationship with these laboratories in Ukraine. And actually this is published information by the Department of Defense and other, the State Department, other agencies involved.

And you can go look at CBEP maps and see where we have this information. Or you can play the game where you go look at awarded proposals which are not classified. So there’s ways to find this information. It’s not secret. And they’re using private companies and universities to have these relationships with these different laboratories. And that’s what scientific diplomacy is about.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why would you lie about it? And why would news organizations collaborate in those lies? Like to me as a non-scientist but a student of human nature, that’s a tell that something bad’s going on. Like why would you lie about that?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, I think the Biden administration was completely incompetent on all these areas and I think it was looking at Ms. Nuland specifically. I believe that she didn’t know what she didn’t know. It was a case of that.

TUCKER CARLSON: That is one of the huge problems of being dumb.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Is you don’t know what you don’t know. Right.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And so she probably couldn’t articulate anything other that would be the truth without putting herself in risk of perjuring herself.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So I think she gave the answer to not perjure herself not knowing what she didn’t know.

TUCKER CARLSON: Stupidity is often the real explanation for a lot of things.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, the truthful answer could have been, “Well Senator, I don’t know. My office will look into that and we’ll give you a written response within a week.” And that’s how they trained us.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, of course. Well that’s what honest people do is just to tell the truth. But I just thought it was interesting that the media cooperated with the cover up in that and many a million others, of course. But like why? What is that?

The Psychological Operation

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, that was all part of the psychological operation because remember this didn’t happen in a vacuum. They probably didn’t want to undermine the public perception of the government related to the COVID origin story. Some more of these conspiracy theories that turn out to be true, it undermines the credibility of the main narrative that they’re trying to set which was COVID emerged from the market.

TUCKER CARLSON: Can I ask an even bigger and dumber question which is why would the US government have an interest in lying about that? Why not? China is our rival on many levels, economic and military primarily. And we’re often told that we’re in a war against China, fight with China, race against China. Why would the same people telling us that go out of their way to cover up the fact that the virus came from a Chinese bioweapons lab?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, the government’s people, first of all, you know, we always refer to it as the government. But you work in Washington, D.C. and in this space, and any program area that a person could be affiliated with has people running it. Yeah, those people don’t want to be held accountable.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, that’s right.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And they obviously are living in a state of fear of what could happen if they were held accountable. So they make decisions to protect themselves out of their self interest, and they happen to hold some power or leverage or have relationships to execute on that operation plan.

TUCKER CARLSON: Totally. Right. Yeah. I mean, clearly true. So you start telling the truth, they start telling you, tase your dog, trying to drive you insane. All of that is very, very familiar to me. You don’t feel like they’re going to want to kill you, but they want you to shut up or at least become a fringe figure that nobody pays attention to.

The Harassment Campaign

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes, absolutely. And here’s just a quick story, and maybe we’ll cut this in differently. But one of the funny things that they did was that it had been a really stressful summer of working on my book, writing it because of the hacks, and I had deadlines, and I’m not able to meet the deadlines because of the hacking, being tailed, all these different things.

Well, my wife and I decided to go to a music festival in Chicago. And it’s a decent drive, you know, six, seven hours down to Chicago. And while we’re staying at the hotel, someone is hovering a drone outside the window of our hotel room.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And the funny thing is, you know—

TUCKER CARLSON: I hope you flashed them.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I walk around probably naked all the time because I’m, you know, former army infantryman. I don’t care who sees me naked. And I live out in the middle of nowhere, so I’ll just go outside naked sometimes.

But anyways, we’re in Chicago. And, you know, the thing is, the FBI or these federal agents or maybe state agents operating illegally weren’t very smart. So our room faced an alley in Chicago, and there was a tall glass building next to us. So I look at the glass building across from us, and I can see the people operating the drone in the room above us.

TUCKER CARLSON: No way.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes. So what I do, I actually put on my pants, go upstairs, and I pound on the door and “Come out of this f*ing room. I caught you.” And I’m screaming this in the hotel room in Chicago. And I’m excited, you know, because this is the first time where I’ve actually been able to confront these people.

And the room goes dead silent. So what do I do? I go over to the fire door, which is right next to this hotel room, was up against the stairwell, and we’re on the third floor, they’re on the fourth. And I make a quick decision to sort of trick these guys.

So I open up this door, this heavy fire door, and I allow it to slam. And I make the noise with my feet that I’m going down the stairs. Actually, I went upstairs quietly and above the room to the fifth floor. And I’m standing there listening to the floor, and I hear cases closing, things snapping, and you know which way they’re going to exit. They’re obviously not going to go down the fire escape at the end of the building. The only other way they’re going to go down the hallway to the next stairway or elevator.

So I start running down the fifth floor ahead of these guys, and I hear footsteps and cases and things. I heard the cases clinically. I hear the footsteps coming down the hallway, and I get to the next stairway and I open up the door and they pop out right in front of me.

But I’m up on the fifth floor and they’re coming out on the fourth, and I’m looking down at them, and they go running down the stairs to the first floor. And I’m laughing. So I go over the elevator. I go down the elevator casually. I come on the lobby like there’s nothing wrong.

And the two guys are sitting in chairs. And I walk over to them and say, “Hey, guys, did you see two guys come running down the stairs?” And they have wristbands on from drinking at the music festival or bars, wherever. They were following us around all day, and they said, “No, we haven’t seen anyone there.” You know, the looks are like they’re sweating.

And I go over to the desk of the lobby and say, “Hey, what’s your name? Can I get your phone number? I’m going to have my attorneys call you. We want a copy of the surveillance footage of these guys.” And I’m like, “I’m going to come back and I’m going to buy you dinner next year.” And she said, “Okay.” She gave me my information. She’s like, “Why?” I’m like, “Oh, it’s not a big deal.”

The Trespassing Incident

So anyways, that happens. A week goes by. The next week we’re back at home, and I had trespassers on my property, and sometimes the state police and federal agents would come onto my property and just run around the bushes around my house, you know, to freak me out or thinking that they were freaking me out. And I laughed at most of this.

So I call 911 to report the trespassers. And I’m working in my garage on some project. And they’re playing music and sounds from their phones, trying to get me to come out and run after them or something.

So anyways, 45 minutes go by. The police haven’t arrived. And sometimes that’s not uncommon, probably for a trespassing claim in the U.P. of Michigan. So I call back and the dispatcher or the 911 operator gives me the phone number of the state police officer that is responding to the call. And I’m supposed to call him on the cell phone.

Well, I go call the phone number on my cell phone and the phone rings in the bushes.

TUCKER CARLSON: No way.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I’m not kidding. And I start laughing. And they know because you could hear it get shut off real quick. And I’m just like, I just caught these guys. This is concrete evidence you can obtain from the location of this person’s cell phone and the phone calls made.

TUCKER CARLSON: Are any of these people ever punished? The drone operators? The state cop?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: No. So these people haven’t been punished. The state cop, his name is Deputy Bray. I know who he is. And he actually has a family in Iron Mountain, Michigan.

There was another person. I actually witnessed one of the state police officers in my house through a plate glass window. I was out working on the property. He was on my computer trying to destroy evidence. I think he lives in the town on the road.

So much of this came from the state police, which is the Governor Whitmer administration. Totally corrupt. History of working with the FBI to harass persons.

The FBI’s Campaign Against Dr. Huff

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And so I don’t know if they’ve ever been held accountable. I know for a fact that the FBI office in the state of Michigan had been spreading rumors with state and local law enforcement, excuse me, county and local law enforcement that I was dangerous. I mean, this is…

TUCKER CARLSON: And no one was ever held accountable. What about your former co-workers at EcoHealth Alliance? Where are they now?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I haven’t checked in a while. So Dr. Billy Karesh, who I actually really liked, he was the executive vice president. He was second to Peter. He wound up at the Aspen Institute.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s the most perfect thing I’ve ever heard. Okay. It was either that at the Atlantic Council or Georgetown University. I knew it was one of the three.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Funny. So the other vice presidents, Dr. Epstein or Dr. Olival, I’m not sure where they are. I know Dr. Daszak’s trying to get something new going, which is basically, it sounds like sort of the same thing. And, you know, I understand why. There have been a series…

TUCKER CARLSON: Has Dr. Daszak ever faced any penalty at all for participating in this?

Daszak’s Congressional Testimony

DR. ANDREW HUFF: No. And the best part is that what’s crazy about all this, I should say, is that I attended a number of the hearings in the COVID Select Committee in person, and I was there for Dr. Daszak’s grilling. And they have the part where they go through where basically he’s denying that any of this is gain of function, his involvement, and he’s fighting back.

And then, you know, it gets to the end of the congressional hearings where the counsel for both the Democrats and Republicans get the chance to examine the witness. And during that questioning, they actually asked Dr. Daszak whether or not he is working with the intelligence community. And at first he lies. He says, no, that he wasn’t. And then they had actually obtained records that he was, which was apparent. I didn’t know that at the time. And they pushed him on it. And then he came clean that he was. So it’s on the official record that he was working with the intelligence, like me.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s craziness.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And nobody talks about that. You know, this wasn’t in the news, but that came out at the end of the hearing.

TUCKER CARLSON: I guess you would have no way to know whether CIA ever gathered meaningful intelligence from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: In my opinion, probably not.

TUCKER CARLSON: Probably not.

The Reality of Intelligence Gathering

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So that’s so awkward. And I get this question. It’s like when I worked at the National Laboratory, if we had anyone who was foreign to the lab, and I mean anyone external to Sandia…

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Come to the laboratory, we would give them what I call the special tour. So they would have their Sandia minder, and we’d take them to an area which we had bug swept before. And then, you know, we’d show them whenever we wanted to show the dog and pony show. And the second we left, that area would be bug checked before or after they left.

So if that’s what we do in the United States, and that’s our standard protocol for top secret, secret environments, we don’t think the Chinese are doing the same thing? So you have all these US government officials and Dr. Daszak visiting that laboratory, they would just take them around to them like, “Oh, this is our microbiology laboratory. This is our ventilation hood where we do sample work.”

I mean, just looking at the equipment in a laboratory sometimes doesn’t actually tell you what they’re working on either because you’re dealing with viruses. You can’t see these things, or bacteria or pathogen.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right. I can see someone’s kitchen stove. I don’t know what they’re making for dinner.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Exactly.

Theories on COVID’s Origin

TUCKER CARLSON: So you’ve told a remarkable story. And, you know, it’s remarkable because of the lengths they went to keep you from telling it. But with the benefit of several years, five years really, of hindsight and thinking about this, what do you think this was? Was this an accidental leak from the Wuhan lab? And they sort of backfilled after that. Was this something else? What’s your view?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So the way that I’m trained and the way that I’ve worked in this type of intelligence aspect of the science is you look at scenarios. So you come up with every possible scenario, and then you use hypothesis testing evidence to eliminate hypothesis or scenarios.

So we’re now at the stage where this could be a few different things. One, it could have been a pure accident, accidental release from the Wuhan laboratory. And if it’s that scenario, it looks like it was a laboratory employee, potentially a graduate student, who had been working in that laboratory who became infected.

TUCKER CARLSON: And then spread it unknowingly.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Correct.

TUCKER CARLSON: To the world.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So that is, I think, the scenario which has the most favor publicly and among experts who are now committed to the fact that this is a laboratory leak. It could have been an intentional release that still hasn’t been eliminated. One or multiple groups could have intentionally released the agent there.

There’s one troubling aspect of this, is that there are types of studies or scientific studies which we could have ran to conclusively identify the origin of the disease in space and time. And this is a classic epidemiological method. There are blood banks and historical records of disease through blood donation programs globally.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s right.

The Missing Investigation

DR. ANDREW HUFF: So what we do is we go to those blood banks, look at old samples, or we look at other tissues or samples that have been collected with HIV. And then you look through, okay, in this location here, what time, when. And then now, with modern technology, you can actually use more genetic applications to look at the…

So because SARS-CoV-2 evolves so rapidly, you can actually look at the phylogenetic tree to see, you know, where in time was this sample. And you’d follow that back then with the location information you’re obtaining of positive hits, where the positive samples were found to eventually trace you back to the origin.

And that study has never been done at scale. And I don’t know why. It’s another one of those questions like why haven’t we done this? And there’s a number of organizations and the US Military that could look at their own genetic blood bank samples to sort of figure out where this came from and when. Maybe they’ve already done that, right? Because that would happen behind closed doors and the Department of Defense or the defense medical agencies would do that.

So these are questions that could be answered and they haven’t been answered. And I have more thoughts and opinions to what has transpired related to the origin of this disease. And I’m now at the position that if this investigation were to take place, because the world is in such a tenuous position in terms of the potential for World War III, that should happen in a classified setting.

The Case for UCMJ Proceedings

And the investigation should be in the form of using the UCMJ process through the Department of Defense. Because Dr. Anthony Fauci, Dr. Daszak, Ralph Baric, all these people are essentially working on a defense program. They’re working with DoD. It falls under UCMJ authority legally. Not many people know that. It’s not just people…

TUCKER CARLSON: Uniform Code of Military Justice.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes. So people who are working with the DoD, whether they’re a civilian or government employee on a project, Project DEFUSE, are subject to UCMJ. That’s where the investigation should happen. It shouldn’t happen at the Department of Justice.

I believe that Secretary Hegseth has the leadership to execute this properly. And if the investigation warrants, then criminal charges could be brought under UCMJ in a classified setting. So basically a classified trial which exists, then set a time period of five to ten years to release the results of that criminal trial publicly.

Obviously, if someone’s found guilty and they’re imprisoned, you’ll know that there is some wrongdoing. But I don’t think that we’re… My greatest concern is that if there were more nefarious components of this, now is not the time to release that…

TUCKER CARLSON: Information publicly because the world sits on the cusp of a global war.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Exactly. And I’m actually sort of following our leaders here. There have been a series…

TUCKER CARLSON: That is a very balanced view. Let me just say.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, thank you.

TUCKER CARLSON: For those who would dismiss you as a wacko, I don’t know what I think of that. I haven’t thought of it until you said it. But I think that’s a kind of a window into the way that you think, which is in a restrained and responsible way.

Tulsi Gabbard’s Leadership

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, thank you. And that opinion or that belief and that process sort of just came to me in the last week. And that’s from looking at the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, in her office declining some FOIA requests from several groups related to the origin of COVID and the story.

And I firmly believe that Director Gabbard is on the right side of humanity and history. I’m a huge fan of hers and I’ve had some conversation with her back and forth on social media, direct messages, and we have some friends that are friends of a friend kind of thing. So I believe her heart’s in the right place.

TUCKER CARLSON: I can verify that through a decade of knowing her well. And she’s one of the only famous people I’ve ever met, maybe the only famous person I’ve ever met who not only didn’t get… Doesn’t own a home because she’s never made any money at all because that’s the last thing on her mind. So who else can you say that about?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Not many people.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s right.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And so looking at her leadership right now and her office’s leadership and their response to these FOIA requests, and the nature of these FOIA requests would actually get at some of these root issues and they’re objecting to them and they’re not releasing the information. She’s in the position now where she knows a lot more about what happened or what really happened than she did before President Trump was elected and she was nominated into that position and eventually became the director. So looking at that, I think they’re making the same kind of assessment that I am.

The Lab Leak Consensus

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. That of course it was a lab leak.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I mean, I don’t really…

TUCKER CARLSON: When you said the portion of the scientific community, so-called that ascribes to the lab leak theory, that suggests that there are people who are still pushing the pangolin lie.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Absolutely.

TUCKER CARLSON: Are there?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes. Well, if you go over to the other Twitter, Blue Sky, or I think, I can’t remember the name of it. But on social media, there are other groups of scientists publicly saying that this was still a laboratory leak. In fact, they haven’t retracted that it…

TUCKER CARLSON: Was not a laboratory leak.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: That was not a laboratory leak. They still haven’t retracted the Proximal Origins paper, which is a complete fraud.

TUCKER CARLSON: Are you serious?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: No. And Dr. Ebright from Rutgers University, who I admire and respect, he’s fighting the good fight every day on social media, as an old seasoned professor should. So the whole complex of either the pharmaceutical industry, the scientific community that works tightly with the pharmaceutical industry, or are funded by the agencies involved in this, are all opposing the natural, or excuse me, the lab… They’re all opposing the lab leak.

TUCKER CARLSON: The vaccine manufacturers are opposed?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I would believe so. Well, not them directly because they’re not making public statements on this. But if you look at, you know, you follow the money. So if you look at the scientists, okay, and where they get their money from, many of the people who are involved in mRNA technology development associated with SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are in the camp of this was a naturally emerging disease.

Peter Hotez’s Connections

TUCKER CARLSON: And I’m using air quotes around the word doctor, but “Dr.” Peter Hotez, for example, a vax pusher of longstanding. Is he, just to name one name, is he pushing the pangolin lie still?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I don’t know if he’s pushing it still, but I mean, he was pushing the natural emergency theory quite profoundly everywhere he went for a period of time.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why would… That’s such an interesting nexus. Why would people who are promoting vaccines want to lie about the origin of…

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, Dr. Hotez is actually a more interesting specific person that you name because he actually has connections to the Wuhan Institute of Virology as well. So he’s more directly linked back to the origin story than other scientists in the…

TUCKER CARLSON: Really?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: In what way?

The Future of Vaccine Technology and mRNA

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I forget that he has some kind of either publication record with scientists there or collaboration of research, I believe.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, well, he’s… Yeah, it’s interesting. You really feel like you don’t know your country very well when… I mean, I knew people who believed Dr. Peter Hotez and I thought to myself, how could this… I mean, this is so clearly, you know, not true. I don’t know how you could believe that. It was really a divisive time in the country or a revealing time and the truth led to division. I guess maybe it’s a better way to put it. But anyway. But why in general, leaving Hotez out of it, why would a vaccine pusher not want to tell the truth about the origin of the virus?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Simply that gain of function technology is used for virology in vaccine development, and mRNA is a huge portfolio of new vaccine technology development.

TUCKER CARLSON: Thank you. Okay, that’s the answer.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And there’s the funny thing is, if you look at mRNA technology and its future, a lot of corporations have banked in the pharmaceutical or biotech industry and mRNA being the future of vaccine technology. And I think if you look at the rise in cancers associated with mRNA technology in the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, and there’s a new study, a recent study that came out in Korea, which is a massive cohort study with a large, large has much, has a lot of statistical power, found five or six cancers that were associated with the vaccine.

And then many of these other studies looked at one type of cancer, for example lymphoma in Sweden. They didn’t find an association. But this Korean study looked at all types of cancers and they’re now finding these associations. So the writing’s on the wall for mRNA technology. I do not think that it’s going to be the future vaccine technology.

And frankly, I’m not so concerned anymore with the old way of thinking that the emerging infectious disease threat that we should be concerned about are old world diseases. So bacillus anthracis being weaponized, for example, a coronavirus being weaponized. Gain of function technology has evolved within the last two to three years at such a rapid pace.

The Emergence of Synthetic Pathogens

The future threat we need to be mitigating against and protecting against is actually synthetic pathogens and synthetic life. And I don’t think, and I know for a fact that most of the world isn’t aware that we’ve actually already created single cell life. It exists. The paper, the seminal paper on it came out three years ago.

So we now have fully functioning synthetic cells which are created with nanotechnology. And some of those… And I could get in the weeds on what that nanotechnology is, which can self-replicate. And so what this means, if you sit back and what this means…

TUCKER CARLSON: Wait. So man has created life?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Technically synthetic, yes.

TUCKER CARLSON: And by synthetic, what is it? So but if it’s, if it behaves independently and it’s self-replicating, then aren’t those the criteria for life?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, that’s a whole philosophical debate.

TUCKER CARLSON: And yeah, I don’t want to believe it, so I’m happy to have the definition readjusted. But that would be the obvious definition of it.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Right. And there’s also synthetic cloning now, so you can have an agent if you know exactly a pathogen or a cell. And some of this isn’t advanced. So if it’s more complicated cell type, for example, you might not be able to replicate that, but you can now synthetically generate a virus to match the virus. And so what that means is you don’t have to have the actual virus. You don’t have to collect a sample anymore. You can just have the code and you can generate it. That’s where we are now.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: And that’s for viruses. Now if we’re talking code and I can make the virus and I believe we’ll be there in the near future with bacteria and with synthetic life though, you can generate very radical things because what this means is we can make what would be defined as a single cell synthetic organism which does different things that don’t exist. And it has massive potential, good uses and bad uses.

The good uses, you could use this and I could see this being popular among scientists funded by the Borlaug program at USDA where they use this for pest control. And you could target, make it so it was very specific, the synthetic cell or organism or bacteria to target something like a pest, like a grasshopper for example.

TUCKER CARLSON: Or white people.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, we’re going to get to the other side of this. That would only target a specific species defined to a geographic region. So you might not worry of it spilling over into some other insect population. In theory. Okay, this is, this is, this is sort of on the, what I’m talking about here is the emerging future trend of this.

The Nefarious Applications of Synthetic Biology

Now on the nefarious side of this, how is it going to be used? We’re no longer talking about living things. So you can engineer a synthetic pathogen to attack equipment. So you can have that synthetic organism produce an acid that would eat metal. You could have it produce a biofilm which would attack metal underwater like a submarine.

This technology is being developed right now at a handful of places. Some of it’s in the United States. Much of it is, some of it is not. Most of the places it’s being developed are friendly to the United States or our allies. But this synthetic threat is rapidly emerging.

That, so that’s the biotechnology side. Now if you take a look at, and I know I’ve been watching your show recent episodes, AI has been a big hot topic and there’s tons of investment going into it. We’re going to see a fusion between this synthetic biology technology and AI and it’s probably on the four to five year horizon.

And the AI will be programmed into the micro circuits systems of the nanotechnology. It’s a fact. I mean you’re going to use the best software, the best programs you can get onto a, basically a nano computer within that cell which does the programming. This might sound like crazy science fiction to a lot of people, people who say that’s not possible.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t think anyone would say that’s not possible.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: I can point to a peer reviewed publication where they’re doing all the components of this and it’s just a matter of time before someone gets wise and assembles it. And there’s going to be plenty of financial motive to do this. So there’s no stopping it. And that’s what I’m saying. There’s no stopping where this is headed.

And the reason why I say that there… The Trump administration did some great work with Russia trying to negotiate a new biological treaty.

TUCKER CARLSON: I just want to apologize in public for every moment I’ve defended our economic system, because any system that allows something like this is a bad system.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, I don’t… So all technology is dual use. Right. It’s like firearms is the classic example. A firearm in a good person’s hand is a tool to defend and protect yourself, your family against tyranny. Any evil person’s hand…

TUCKER CARLSON: Nuclear power, nuclear bombs, I get it. But you just have to assess the downside risk realistically as compared to the upside benefit. And I think with the technology, well, nuclear technology, I believe this, and certainly true with everything you’re describing, downside risk way far outweighs any potential gain. You live to 110.

The Limitations of International Treaties

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Okay, so I’d argue this. I can completely agree with the upside and downside risk of this. But what I’m saying is there’s no stopping it. And this is why what I was going to say related to President Trump and the Trump administration negotiating a new biological treaty with the international community.

Well, one, looking at history back to the ’70s, I don’t think it’s going to be effective. So the existing Biological Weapons Convention we have is outdated. It focuses on select agents, basically that which can be weaponized through gain of function technology. They baked a loophole into it to develop countermeasures. That’s vaccine technologies and other prophylactics.

And you can engage in the gain of function technology, bioweapon development, if you’re developing the countermeasures. And they couldn’t get anyone to go further past that with having inspections. And I don’t see that posture, especially today, in today’s climate, changing.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you blew up the Nord Stream pipeline. There’s no… I mean the basis of international treaty, of course is trust and there’s none. So, no more international treaties.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, I hope I’m wrong.

TUCKER CARLSON: But I just don’t see it right now.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, I think that there’s a path forward and the path forward…

TUCKER CARLSON: Before we get to the path forward, can we just get to a broader description, more precise description of what the marriage of nanotechnology to AI means? What does that mean?

Nanotechnology and AI: Swarm Capabilities

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Sure. So the marriage of nanotechnology to AI means that the AI or excuse me, the nanotechnology will have swarm-like capabilities. So people or the general world is probably more familiar with swarm technology around drones. They’re using this in their testing this, and they’re trying to field these rapid swarm technologies.

And if you watch these large displays of drone shows that you see commonly in China, that’s really them just openly testing drone swarm technology. And that’s the civilian, this is cool tech application, but there’s actually a much more sinister application of that same technology for defense, dual use technology.

So imagine that these pathogens are like these drones and you see them operate. AI will control the swarm technology around the synthetic pathogen so that they can control their behavior. And then also that the machine inside the synthetic cell can adapt to its environment without any human construction or code or decision making.

TUCKER CARLSON: So what would that look like in terms of… Well, I don’t know. I can imagine a drone swarm. I’ve seen one. What would that mean? So you have synthetic cells that are controlled by a computer and then they do what?

DR. ANDREW HUFF: Well, use cases always help define what that is. So in a weaponization scenario, yes, you could use this to deploy a container, maybe it looks like a bomb into an ocean where you know where a submarine is. The synthetic life could be magnetic and attract to the hull of the submarine. It would attach itself and then it would make decisions about where it should collect on the surface of the submarine independently to create a biofilm and self-replicate to basically cause the sensors or to disable the submarine in some way.

In space, use a similar type of… Maybe I’m not so sure what the delivery vehicle is, but say that you were to get this onto a satellite, you could use it then to eat and corrode the silicon and the magnesium and the structure of that. You could use it to basically disable the systems on board of the physical structure of the vessel or the satellite.

And that’s just, I mean, what’s really so striking about this is this technology will be able to be used to attack objects. But it’s a synthetic living thing. There’s also the life. So there’s a new fork here. You can use it to attack objects or you can use it to attack life itself. And that’s more what people would be familiar with.

Targeting Specific Genetic Populations

You could use it to attack specific genetic populations, for example. So if a certain population had a genetic trait, you can make these synthetic pathogens specifically target name your niche of race or population of genetically related closer…

TUCKER CARLSON: How about the ones who were given fentanyl and denied jobs in the United States? So no, I’m just being super…

DR. ANDREW HUFF: No, but yeah, but honest, more difficult probably. Well, unless they had some kind of specific…

TUCKER CARLSON: Half kidding sort of. But you… So I remember Bobby Kennedy got into a great deal of trouble because he said at some event, of course the New York Post led the charge against him, of course. But that COVID could be tailored or in fact, what… For whatever reason, COVID had disparate effects on populations.

DR. ANDREW HUFF: That’s absolutely true. I mean that’s scientifically true. And I was quite familiar with that literature when he made…

TUCKER CARLSON: What does that mean? Which population suffered most from COVID?

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