Transcript: Dr. Abdulnasser Alshaali’s Interview on Figuring Out With Raj Shamani Podcast

When did this even start? That, “Hey, you know what? UAE, we want to make it one of the best countries in the world. We’re going to attract the best of the best people from the world. We make it truly global. We’re going to go away from this whole concept of wherever we come from. Just, we want to make sure that we build this so cosmopolitan, that we will do everything right.”

How? When did this start? What did you guys do right? I don’t know everything. Like, this is fascinating.

RAJ SHAMANI: Because you look at a photo of 1990s versus today.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Doesn’t look like the same place all across the Emirates. Yeah, they’re all different. Right. But let me tell you, since you asked specifically about this, you go to Dubai regularly, right? Have you… Are you familiar with the old Trade Center building?

RAJ SHAMANI: Sheikh Zayed Road, World Trade Center.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: You’re talking about World Trade Center. Yeah, I know, right. Okay. When this was constructed, there was nothing around it.

RAJ SHAMANI: It looks like it’s constructed from very old times. Yeah.

The Vision Behind Strategic Infrastructure Development

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: And that’s it. So, like, this whole place, no one was interested in that place. Those plots of land, those that are now among the most expensive because they are in such a prime location, no one wanted them, believe it or not. So the inspiration was that you built this there. People would see it. So you see that the government is committed or the ruler is committed to developing this area.

And those plots were given at a certain rate, very minimal on lease or ownership kind of arrangement. Back in the day, whatever that arrangement was, but very low cost, like, almost nothing compared to today’s prices. And this gave everyone the encouragement to basically start developing those towers that you see or the different buildings that you see on Sheikh Zayed Road. And Sheikh Zayed Road is, you know, the main highway connecting all of the Emirates.

When they wanted to develop a new port in Dubai, and this was during Sheikh Rashid’s time, so the father of Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid, and what they wanted, I’m not entirely sure that the number is accurate. I think they want to do six. And he wanted to do more than four times that number back in the day. And no one could think or imagine why would he want to. Like, no one’s coming here. Like, okay, there’s some trade that’s taking place, but not big enough that you want to spend all of that money to have that infrastructure. So why are we doing this? Why are you wasting the money? And today, even that is not enough.

So I think it’s something that you can easily apply to all of the Emirates, each in their unique kind of examples and cases where you need to show what you’re trying to get to or to put something out there for people to see and to be able to widen their imagination and their scope of thinking when it comes to what are the… Not just the ambitions of the country, but what can be achieved even after X number of years.

So now, even if you look at Abu Dhabi, for instance. You’ve been to Abu Dhabi?

RAJ SHAMANI: Yes.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Abu Dhabi has now developed a very unique model where you have a cultural district and you have the main Abu Dhabi city with its own urban planning and so on. You have Yas Island, for example, is where everyone goes for entertainment. And then you have Saadiyat, where you go to see art or you go to visit the museum and so on. So it became very specific and very specialized, with each area having its own unique selling point.

The Evolution of Economic Models

So many things that happened, those ambitions that were put forward and so on, started a little bit before that. Okay. And there was a lot of focus on trade. Everyone understood the importance of trade. And each and every model was developed differently.

Now, the one thing that I think is quite important here is how agile and how flexible are you. So, yes, maybe a few things started before and around the union. But then let’s talk about Emirates Airline. Emirates Airline only came to being in 1985. So, yes, we started with diving for pearls. And then the model evolved because oil was not the main source of income back in the day. And people, by the way, from the UAE would go and work elsewhere in the Gulf because in those other places oil was already discovered and was already generating certain revenues or certain amount of income.

RAJ SHAMANI: Other countries had more employment.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Exactly. And then that model in the UAE started to develop as a trade hub, as a country that exports hydrocarbons. And then slowly you started developing those other sectors.

Future-Forward Thinking and Strategic Investments

So what’s important today? What is the future looking like? I mean, 1985, is aviation important? Do we need to have a world leading airline? Not today, but we need it for 30 years down the line. So that’s why I was telling you the port example or the World Trade Center example and so on. They are more symbolic more than anything else of okay, the future is going that way and we want to start today.

Which is, for example, if we fast forward to today. You talk about AI now, right? And we just announced a Stargate between G42 and OpenAI, up to 5 gigabytes capacity closer to countries and regions that would need that capacity. Aren’t people thinking about AI? They are. Aren’t they talking about AI and using it in their daily kind of activities? They are, but we want to be one step ahead because we know how this is going to be in the future.

We did something also a few years back in the UAE, which is the genome sequencing of the UAE population. How many countries do you know that is actively doing this?

RAJ SHAMANI: I have no idea. Like it’s all private right now. Nobody’s doing it.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Okay. Yeah. So I remember when I was going to Cleveland Clinic and doing some blood work. No, they have a counter right next to the reception in front of the lab and they’re like, “Do you want to do it?” So now every time they ask, I’ve done it like a few years back. Right.

So the idea is they wanted to see how can we map out the diseases of the future so that we can basically be better prepared, insurance wise, healthcare services wise. And this is why, for example, now you have this new regulation that came out recently where for two individuals to get married, they have to go and do genetic testing.

RAJ SHAMANI: Really?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yes.

RAJ SHAMANI: In whole of UAE or just Dubai?

Genetic Testing and Healthcare Innovation

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Whole of the UAE. And we were having this conversation of is this important or not? And I know that genetic testing is important to basically find out if there are any mutations. So like if you want to have a baby, if you want to have a child, you want to make sure that the child is healthy, can grow up normally, it’s better for the parents and it’s also better for the country. Right. And obviously you can’t control for everything, but you can control as much as possible and hope for the best. And then if something goes wrong, you can obviously deal with it.

But the idea was that in the past they used to do it only for a very specific blood illness. And then they’d be like, “Okay, so you’re carrying it and that other person is carrying it. There is this risk. Do you understand the risk?” And so, yeah, but like no prohibition or like you know the risk and now you can decide.

So genetic testing was important in the country and in the culture and the society where it’s very common to marry within the family. And once that is like when you look at the trends and the kind of illnesses or diseases that have come out in the UAE or became very prominent in the UAE, it’s because of, part of the reason is because of that. Doesn’t mean you don’t need to or you’re not supposed to. But at least we need to understand.

What are the risks and potential complications and potential complications that you also need to understand if you actually go ahead with this marriage.

The Emirates Airline Vision

RAJ SHAMANI: Very interesting. I’m intrigued to talk more about future. But I want to… You said Emirates Airline 1985.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah.

RAJ SHAMANI: Why would somebody think like I need one of the most luxurious, best airlines in the world in 1985 where UAE itself has not become anything big?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Correct.

RAJ SHAMANI: What was going on and what was the vision for that airline?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: The vision was we need to bring as many people to the UAE as possible. Okay. And initially the aircrafts that were used were leased and they had like I think fewer than five destination, maybe five initial destinations that they started with just to basically move people from those countries to the UAE and back.

And then the model also evolved, as you know, I told you, like things are… we’re not fixated on certain things. We’re happy to evolve and to basically adapt. And the model evolved into okay, no, but people also want to travel elsewhere and we can help them travel elsewhere at ease and they can spend time in the UAE going back and forth.

The idea was especially for a city like Dubai, no hydrocarbon resources, focus from the very beginning was on other kind of sectors as we want to develop those non-oil sectors to become the drivers of economic growth and the engines for future prosperity. And so you have, you know, like when we talk port or post development, we have logistics and then you have one of the leading companies worldwide. And then we talk tourism and aviation and you have one of the leading companies worldwide.

And then you go to Abu Dhabi and yes, hydrocarbon resources are there, but you also now have world leading airline, you also have a world leading logistics or ports company and you have also other kind of sovereign wealth funds and companies that invest in infrastructure and other kind of projects. And part of that investment is also creating the value chain for the UAE.

So again, they all develop differently. I don’t think the intention was that we want the best airline or the best sports company, but then you do the best in your field in your country and then you provide the same kind of service elsewhere and you build that credibility and trustworthiness that now other countries and other people are trusting you.

Excellence as a Core Philosophy

RAJ SHAMANI: So it’s not the obsession of becoming the best, the biggest, the tallest, the grandest and the first and all of these things which you usually associate with UAE, right? It doesn’t start like that. Or does it?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: They are supported. So when we want to do something, we want to be the best at it. Doesn’t mean it has to be the tallest or the largest or the fastest or whatever. We want to be the best at it. But the intention is to have those unique selling points. So Ferrari World came in and they have the fastest roller coaster. Great for them. But they are doing that. You know, we’re not doing that. And so that’s the thing that you can apply to every single thing that we have done.

The UAE’s Development Philosophy

RAJ SHAMANI: But then is that the philosophy of UAE and Dubai and Abu Dhabi and all of these places that whatever is out there in the world, why don’t we get it here? Like all the best things or the nice things or something which is needed or maybe just desiring. Let’s get it. Here we are in middle of desert, we’ll build a mall with skiing in it. With snow in it. Like, what do you guys do?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Well, it’s a good way to train, if you want to train for skiing before going somewhere and try to be professional. So my kids used to go there, so it’s good. I’m really bad at skiing. I’ve tried it ages ago and it was a complete failure. Thank God no one got hurt because I was crashing through everything. But like that was one way for my kids to pick it up.

RAJ SHAMANI: But then that’s not the only, like, this is just…

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I know, I get it.

RAJ SHAMANI: You’re like, “Hey, you know what? My kids need to train so we’ll build a ski house inside a mall.”

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Right, I get it.

RAJ SHAMANI: I guess that’s if that’s the reason. I’ll be really happy to know that.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Unique selling points, something special, something different. Again, anyone can build more. Right.

RAJ SHAMANI: And what is it like? “We’ll build, they’ll come.”

From “Build It and They’ll Come” to High Demand

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yes. And now, so the initial model – yes, part of the model, the development model was we will build it, we’ll create it, we will have it and people will come. And now in certain aspects, suppliers aren’t even catching up with the demand. So it now became the other way around. There are too many people coming, too many people who want to live in the UAE. And the real estate projects, for instance, are barely catching up. Which is why prices are going up, the rent is going up, etc.

RAJ SHAMANI: You’re telling me now there’s more demand than supply in terms of real estate projects. This insanity in real estate projects everywhere I go. Whether it’s Dubai or Ras Al Khaimah or Abu Dhabi. I visited these three places. Everything is getting developed by the biggest of the biggest names in the world and new people. Everything is just getting made. Who’s going to live in these houses? Like there’s so many of them, isn’t it oversupply?

Understanding the Real Estate Market Dynamics

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Let me give you an example, also a specific example. When I first came to India, obviously we nominate individuals for the golden visa and one of the individuals that we nominated, like solid profile businesses and so on. And the first thing he did when he got the golden visa was go to the UAE and buy two properties.

Now are you going to live in two properties simultaneously? No, but you know, maybe one to live in one for investment or to lease out. And that’s the idea. If you look at what’s happening in the UAE, you would probably find that maybe someone’s living in the house, in their home and they have another, maybe beach house, some in some other emirate or apartment or condo or whatever. And that is for the weekend or for example, they would have multiple properties and people who are not buying the property will be leasing those properties.

So the market has developed significantly and in a very sophisticated manner post the 2008 Global Financial Crisis and has become like the laws and regulations have been changed and updated to make sure that, you know, even if something happens in the future, it’s not something as big of a reaction as it was to the global financial crisis.

So are there too many projects? Absolutely. Are people buying into all of those projects equally? I highly doubt it because there are certain developers you might be very familiar with, the developers you’re not familiar with. So you’ll probably go with the developers that you’re familiar with and then it’s for all those other reasons that I mentioned.

Market Correction vs. Market Crash

RAJ SHAMANI: But do you think the real estate market is going to crash? Is it just hype? Is it going to correct? I read two statements recently. One of the big developers in UAE said that next year the market’s going to correct and the prices will come down normally because it’s highly inflated right now. Then I think someone from the royal family said, “No, we are seeing a surge. There’s a report that there are more people coming in.” So it’s like there’s going to be more demand.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: You’re right. But “correct” is the right word, not “crash.” And every single market, real estate, stocks, you name it – it’s always good to have a correction because you know, you can go in, buy more, reduce your cost etc and then your dividends become higher in terms of percentage, your yield becomes higher in terms of the rent.

Is it going to happen next year? I think that someone just trying to be… You can’t forecast it this way. This is not how it works. And you know what has made sure that there is more interest in providing a higher number of units, larger supply is those cycles of people coming in. So it will all have to do with, “Okay, are there more people coming in next year or not?”

So far people are still coming in and there are more people coming in and more people interested in moving to the UAE. And there are all kinds of stories of, I mean what you see are thousands of millionaires have shifted to the UAE. But no, there are also other people who decide they want to come to the UAE because they can get the same kind of education, maybe even better kind of education, better health care and they like the infrastructure, they like the safety of the place and they enjoy it.

Would market correct? Markets always go through correction phases, but they are different from one place to another. Is it a correction based on something wrong with the fundamentals? No, but if there was a slowdown in the numbers of people coming in and obviously the supply is going up in the near future, then that’s only normal for it to happen and then it corrects and then, you know, the whole thing gets balanced out.

RAJ SHAMANI: You would obviously say that.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Okay, why do you think so?

RAJ SHAMANI: Of course, because you’ll have to, you won’t give me a clear picture of maybe something is just hyped up. You would, because you are at a position and you would want to only talk nice things about it.

Personal Investment Experience

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I’ll give you my own example. Since you said that, you know, I’ll have to, you know, it’s only normal that I’ll be saying positive things. I bought a property in 2019 in Dubai and that property – back in 2019 there was some sort of a correction. Things were slowing down, people were not buying. And I remember back in the day, I think if the developer knew that the market was going to go all up in three to four years time, they wouldn’t have sold it at the price that they sold it at. Today, it’s 2.5x. But guess what my yield is or my return is on this?

RAJ SHAMANI: I don’t know. Tell me.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: 12% plus year on year. 12% at the current rent, which is lower than the average market rent by 18%. Do you think I should sell?

RAJ SHAMANI: Of course not.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: There you go. Because by the end of the day, you measure your rent based on your cost price.

RAJ SHAMANI: But it’s more for the rental yield. You’re not talking about flipping. So in India, most people buy and flip. They don’t actually give it to someone for renting.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Even in the UAE. By the way, the only thing that have changed when I told you that things have changed since 2008 is that now you cannot flip until you have paid 25% of the unit. You know this. But my advice would have been to you not to buy today. I would have advised you to wait. Because if a correction is going to happen, buy when it’s at a good price, when the developer really wants to sell to you at a more reasonable price.

I mean, the only reason why I’m making more than 12% is because the unit was sold at a price lower than what the market would have been at if there was no correction back in the day. And this was pre COVID-19. So COVID-19 happened and then, you know, things slowed down even further. But what came out of 2019, 2020 and Covid is that people now are no longer interested in apartments. They’re interested in houses and in, you know, like… You get my point.

And then that took the demand into a whole different level regardless of whether people were coming in or not. So the dynamics in the market are very different. Each kind of unit, each kind of property is different. The location has a whole different kind of metric or aspect. And again, are you in it long term? Are you in it short term? Is there going to be a correction? Absolutely. There’s not a single market worldwide that does not go through some sort of a correction.

Tourism and Airbnb Market

RAJ SHAMANI: So Airbnb, the markets keep going up. You think that more people, the more visitors are coming or people are… Have people gotten bored of UAE and Dubai tourism? Do they want to keep coming again?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: No, they want to keep coming again. If you keep seeing the numbers, the numbers are going up and we need to maybe segregate the two. There are people who are moving into the UAE to live, and there are people who are visiting and they want to continue to visit. And among those, there’s a group that keep visiting every single year. So if they are planning a vacation, they’re going to the UAE. If they have a weekend to spend somewhere, they’ll go to the UAE. If they want to… I don’t know, they want to go and do some checkup, they go to the UAE, if that’s the intention.

So when it comes to Airbnb or leasing, I mean, I would be worried, concerned if there’s a correction happening within the next two years, if you are renting that apartment, and if there’s a correction, then you’ll have fewer people to rent that apartment or rent that unit from you. But in terms of Airbnb, people will visit, and people do look for options that are different than your traditional classic hotel, especially if they want to stay for longer periods. In the UAE, Airbnb makes more sense. And Airbnb as a model is more sophisticated and more rewarding than your typical lease. 2x in the UAE is not high enough.

Final Thoughts on Market Predictions

RAJ SHAMANI: The bottom line with this is – is real estate market in Dubai going to crash? No, but it might correct.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Like all markets. And then you have…

RAJ SHAMANI: How you add like… Like all…

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Like all markets. And then…

RAJ SHAMANI: Proper diplomat.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: By the way, I’m probably the least diplomatic person you will meet. But no, I’m saying this, and I genuinely believe in it. All markets correct. And that’s the beauty of it. When market is correct and you have the cash, you buy it. Go and shop. That’s the best time to do it.

RAJ SHAMANI: Timing. That is very difficult.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah, that’s exactly the point.

RAJ SHAMANI: Maybe somebody somewhere who’s close to some people, but I don’t think normal people can actually time it.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It’s… I mean, they have… There are always indicators and there are always certain signals that show you when something is happening. Someone told me this percentage a while ago. I don’t know how accurate it is, but that 60% of the capacity in the market, of the supply in the market has not been delivered. Or maybe it’s the other way around. I can’t, I’m not sure. But let’s say roughly it’s around 50%.

So that’s the question. When all of this supply gets delivered, what will happen to the market? But then those projects, that’s why I was telling you it cannot just simply be next year because those projects go all the way to 2028, 2029, and maybe some of them to 2030. So this also extends the lifetime of any correction to happen, that it happens more slowly, more gradually, until the market also adapts to it.

Property Ownership and Legal Framework

RAJ SHAMANI: There was one real estate developer who is from India and he was on the podcast. I asked him specifically that a lot of people around the world now are investing in UAE and it has become a very hot market for people to buy real estate, especially Indians. They are really, really putting in money. And earlier only the top 1% rich class would try to put money in UAE. Now a lot of people with their decent salaries and EMIs are trying to now look at opportunities in UAE to buy real estate.

So I asked him a question that why don’t you invest in UAE? Don’t you think that’s a good market? And he said two things. First, he said he’s worried that you don’t own anything in UAE. It’s like managed by the royal family rulers. Anything goes down, they’ll put out some statements and the things will go up again like they have. They control certain market because they’re worried you have to buy it on the face value.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: We don’t nationalize anything. And the reason why there is the raise, because we have very specific areas where you have freehold or very specific ownership structure. When you buy a property and that property gets handed over to you there you can get from the app or whatever, an initial contract of sale which allows you to lease the property, to mortgage the property, if you want to mortgage the property, and so on, it’s yours.

And so I find this very inaccurate and very misleading because you own it, you buy it, you own it. There’s not a single thing or a single experience or example where someone, whatever that position is, just would come in and be like, “No, now this is my land or this is my property.” And you can go and do it. No, no laws apply to everyone.

RAJ SHAMANI: Some local, some local person with a UAE passport or someone close to the royal family or the royal family itself just be like “This land now from us, because we want to build something here” and then just away.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: You mean if someone already owns it? No, they would be offered a very reasonable price if that was really the case. And they still have the decision to sell or not to sell. So if you are doing a project.

RAJ SHAMANI: And isn’t it because it’s run by the rulers, then they can do. That’s not like proper government or democracy. You can’t challenge it anywhere in the international court.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I’ll give you a very specific example. One of my biggest struggles, not struggles, but one of the things that I get requested but I can’t do much about is can the ruler intervene with a court ruling to, for example, reduce the sentence or allow this person to go back to their countries or whatever. And I cannot do it. You cannot do it. The only thing that happens is during Ramadan or during one of the events that the ruler would have a list of prisoners to be released from the UAE prisons.

RAJ SHAMANI: The question is, can somebody at a powerful position misuse power? Because the country is not democratic, you can’t vote out the person using or misusing the power.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: See, there are always, I think in every system there are always individuals who will abuse their power or lose their position. This is part of human nature, not part of a country’s DNA. But the question is, do you have the checks and balances to be able to bring those individuals to be accountable for what they have done? And in the UAE, it’s the highest you can possibly find anywhere in the world.

War Hype and Investment Patterns

RAJ SHAMANI: And the second point, the developer said was what you see right now, the whole hype in Dubai specifically was talking about it’s war hype, it’s war hype.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Okay?

RAJ SHAMANI: And what he meant by that, because there’s so much chaos, everybody is just parking their money and shifting here till the time everything goes back to normal. The moment it goes back to normal, people would want to go back to their countries. So the rich rich of the Russia and the Ukraine’s, a lot of Russians have started investing in UAE in last couple of years after the war. So, like that’s the hype.

After Brexit, a lot of Britishers started investing in UAE and you see, in fact, I think the biggest brokers or the biggest people buying are Britishers out there right now, even more than Indians today. So British after Brexit, because people started thinking that maybe The UK economy is not going to do well, so they’re coming here. So everywhere, whenever there’s going to be a war hype, UAE is going to gain because it’s very friendly for people to come. Stay, be safe, be at a nice place, park your money for a while.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: And then go back partially correct. Whether they’re going to do it for a while or for the long term, that’s completely up to the individual. But yes, whenever there’s something happening in the region or in some other region, the first thing that people think of is we want to go to the UAE and we want to shift to the UAE.

But there are also other examples. So Brexit happened a few years back. Why are people from the United Kingdom still moving to the UAE? Right. I mean there’s no act of war or anything.

RAJ SHAMANI: Yeah, but there’s an army of British brokers who are selling stuff left, right, center.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: But brokers said you said you dreams everywhere. Yeah, right. Why are Indians moving to the UAE? Why are the Chinese moving to the UAE? There are no active wars. I mean, there was a recent conflict between India and Pakistan, but other than that.

RAJ SHAMANI: But Indians are not leaving because of that.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah, but they were moving even before that happens and they will be moving to UAE.

RAJ SHAMANI: Why do you think Indians are moving?

The COVID-19 Turning Point

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: So usually when I fly Delhi, Dubai, I go for the afternoon flight. That one time I had something in the afternoon, so I went for the evening flight which arrives around midnight. And I was in the bus. So that slot is for me is really bad because you don’t even get to the gate. They park the aircraft somewhere else and the bus takes you around until you get delivered to the terminal.

And there were a few individuals and a couple of them were Indians. And they were talking and I was listening and they don’t know who I am. They don’t know what my position is. I was the ambassador back then. And one of them was saying, “You know, pre COVID, I was actually going to go back. I don’t like it here. I don’t want to live here. And I thought, you know, that’s it. But then COVID happened and I saw how this place reacted to COVID, how they dealt with COVID. There was no discrimination between Emiratis and non Emiratis. Everyone had a fair shot at getting first access to vaccine and top notch healthcare. And now we are living here, me and my wife and my kids.”

And now within what he was saying, he also made, he also criticized because someone asked him, he’s like, “Where are we? Like, why is it taking this long to get to the terminal?” He’s like, “Yeah, yeah, we got dropped off in Sharjah because Sharjah is very close to Dubai. By airport is very close to Sharjah.” So he was making a joke that, you know, the aircraft parked in Sharjah, now the bus had to take us back to Dubai.

But, like, okay, despite that, what he really said and was part of the main point of what he was saying is he found reasons to live in the UAE because of COVID. Now, is it true that people move to the UAE when some conflict breaks out elsewhere? Yes, we’ve seen it with 2011. We’ve seen it with the Russian, Ukrainian conflict. And you can have so many examples as such.

But COVID was also a turning point, and people don’t realize how much of a turning point it has been. The way we have dealt with it, the way we have provided certain services, the way people felt that you don’t have to go and fight over, you know, groceries or like, there wasn’t a single instance where you would go to grocery shop or hypermarket and not find the essentials or what you need for. Not only the essentials, even the other things. I mean, the brands changed and you were getting them now from different other sources, but they were always there.

And that people don’t forget such things. Like, when something happens and it’s as traumatizing as COVID is and you find this safe zone or have a haven that the UAE is, you wouldn’t want to go elsewhere. And now after that, obviously, it became probably a word of mouth. You know, “By the way, we’re living here, we like it, we’re enjoying it. It’s great.”

You know, I would go pick up my kids from school whenever I’m in the UAE and I would talk to the parents there. And one of them is originally from an Asian country, but has been living in the UK so has the, you know, citizenship and so on. And they moved to the UAE and he’s like, you know, it’s a British school, and it’s a, you know, British teaching system, which we like and we’re comfortable with.

And he was telling me, like, he was comparing the British schools and the UAE and that why this one is the appropriate one for their kids and why now they can, you know, why now they’re living here because they like it. He even talked about the health care system specifically, and that why there is quite a long time and this is public information when it comes to NHS in the United Kingdom, no such wait time exists in the UAE. You know you can go to any hospital and get medical treatment right away. Even if you want to go for a checkup, you still get it right away.

UAE’s Federal Structure

RAJ SHAMANI: So UAE has multiple emirates. Abu Dhabi, Dubai. Everybody has their own rulers. How all of them come together because they might have their own tradition on way of thinking on their vision, on their money.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Formed a union of seven emirates with a ruling family in each of the emirates. I don’t know if you know this or not, but there’s what we call the Supreme Council. And the Supreme Council is a council of all the seven rulers. And those seven rulers have to agree on who the next president of the UAE is going to be.

RAJ SHAMANI: Like a board meeting, very high level board meeting.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: So when the late Sheikh Khalifa, peace be upon his soul, passed away, they met and they chose Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed to be the next UAE president. And so this is how the system works.

RAJ SHAMANI: The president was his father, right.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: His brother.

RAJ SHAMANI: His brother.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: His older.

RAJ SHAMANI: Older brother. Yeah, but isn’t it the next president would be because the monarchy is there. So he will be the next president.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: So he was the Crown Prince and because he’s the prince of Abu Dhabi, he becomes the ruler of Abu Dhabi, not the consulate. Yeah. So the Supreme Council has to convene and choose the next president of the UAE. Now by default it has been Abu Dhabi because Abu Dhabi is the capital. Abu Dhabi is the largest emirate of the UAE and so on. But the Supreme Council does convene. The Supreme Council does choose the next president of the UAE.

RAJ SHAMANI: So they’re the. And Abu Dhabi is the richest, right? Amongst all of them?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yes.

Regional Competition and Cooperation

RAJ SHAMANI: Do all Arab nations compete with each other? Is there a healthy competition between UAE and Saudi Arabia and all of these.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: All competitions, healthy competition whether it’s in among GCC countries or if it’s with other.

RAJ SHAMANI: Is there a neck to neck competition between Saudi, Qatar and UAE?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Each country provides different unique selling points.

RAJ SHAMANI: We are trying to attract the world.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Towards that and we all want to attract the world to it. And there is enough appetite for everyone in the Gulf. If you look at Qatar and Saudi for example, they were very keen on hosting the World Cup. Qatar, that Saudis are going to do it. We haven’t bid for the World Cup so we haven’t pursued that firstness. We have done Expo a couple of years back.

RAJ SHAMANI: And you’ve done cricket?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: We do cricket. So sports diplomacy is something that we focus on. Cultural diplomacy is something we focus on. And like, if you look at the Gulf today, we have different things to offer. The landscape is different. Like, even if it comes to tourism and wanting to bring visitors and tourists and increase the number of international arrivals in each country. Have you been to those countries?

RAJ SHAMANI: All of them?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah.

RAJ SHAMANI: No, just Qatar.

Regional Differences and Unique Selling Points

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Saudi has a very different landscape and terrain from the north all the way to the south. And they grow coffee in abundant quantities. When it comes to the south, if you go to Qatar, Qatar doesn’t grow coffee. But Qatar has developed infrastructure stadiums because of the World Cup. And they have also certain Western FMP outlets that are not necessarily in the UAE, as well as universities.

We have certain universities that are not in Saudi and not in Qatar. And we also have Cleveland Clinic. So we also offer different kind of unique selling points. We also have Guggenheim Museum, the Louvre and so on.

Oman, for example, has a very different terrain, very different landscape. Going from north to south, for instance, you would see visitors from the UAE, Qatar, Saudi, even Bahrain and perhaps Kuwait to the south of Oman, because the season is different there. The weather is different, the temperature is different than all of the GCC countries. Maybe in Saudi there are areas that are still cooler in the summer.

But the point is, they’re quite different when it comes to their selling points. We agree on the big themes, we agree on the direction that we’re taking of this world, the general outlook, global outlook that we have. But when you look into what each and every country is doing, they’re quite different. And their economic development model is also different.

Balancing Islamic Values with Global Modernization

RAJ SHAMANI: By core, you are Islamic nation, but you have modernized it in such a way which looks global. There are certain things, let’s say now the casino is coming, which is a big deal for any nation in the GCC, I believe. Right. In Ras Al Khaimah, there’s a casino coming.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Correct?

RAJ SHAMANI: Wynn. Right?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah.

RAJ SHAMANI: So that’s coming. Alcohol has been there, party culture, everything is very globalized. Do you face any problem in retaining your roots and getting the modern world together and building this bridge?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: We are a Muslim country because of a sizable Muslim population, let’s put it this way. And our rules, the rules that we have are based on obviously Islamic rules and Islamic traditions and our Islamic heritage.

Now, that does not mean that we cannot adopt global ideas, but what we do is we adopt them and we localize them so that the model that you get is not a model that we got from some other country in the Far East or some country in the Far West. No, it’s a UAE idea from a global thought or global idea that has been localized to the UAE because of the traditions that we have, and not necessarily only Islamic traditions, but even the societal, cultural traditions that we have as an Emirati population.

Is there a struggle? There’s always going to be a struggle. Because now if you, I mean, you’ve been to the UAE, you’ve gone to the malls, and you would see people dressed in all kinds of ways. And even when I go to the mall and I see how certain individuals dress, it makes me uncomfortable. Because you’re in the country, and when you are in the country, you should respect the traditions of this country.

Not because someone is going to penalize you or sentence you or impose a fine because you haven’t, you’re not wearing proper clothes to walk in a shopping mall, but because those are the norms of the country, of the population. I live in India today, even as an ambassador, I need to do things right. I cannot walk around pretending not to understand certain cultural aspects, respect them, abide by the norms of the country and how people are living in this country.

So it’s always going to be a struggle. It’s always going to be a challenge. But we have done everything possible to retain those cultural norms. Again, my struggle with my kids is to teach them also certain things that I don’t want them to not know.

As they grow up, the older generations, they would have a majlis. I want to be specific here. The grandfather, for instance, or even the father. And guests will be coming in and you will have Arabic coffee, and you’ll have what we call “fuala.” Fuala is, you know, just like an Indian home. We need to feed anyone who walks into the house and feed them really well. But if it’s not lunchtime or if it’s not dinner time, we have what we have. And during those meals, we call it fuala. And it can be certain dishes and so on.

So there’s a certain way to pour someone Arabic coffee. You should be holding the – I’m sure you saw it, the small cup. It’s called “finjan” in formal Arabic. And it has to be in the right hand so that when you hand it over to the guest, you hand it over with your right hand. You’re not allowed to hand it over with your left hand. That’s against cultural norms.

My kids wouldn’t be able to observe this because I don’t hold the majlis in the UAE on regular basis where I get guests where they can observe those behaviors and pick them up and be able to. But I try.

Addressing Criticism from Other Muslim Countries

RAJ SHAMANI: But do other Muslim countries look down on you because you’ve been losing certain things which probably doesn’t sit well with their ideas?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It comes down to something we are very clear on when it comes to what we are doing without jeopardizing our faith. People who believe otherwise, and I’m being very general here, or even countries who believe otherwise, then they should go back and question their own faith.

We know our faith, we know our religion, we know our traditions, we know our cultural norms and we uphold them to the highest standard, the best way possible or the best way you can think of. And we are very clear when it comes to our moral compass. You question all of that or you don’t believe it in one way or the other. When your foundation is not strong enough, you’re not that confident in what you believe in. I don’t think I can be more elaborate than this, but I think you get my point.

RAJ SHAMANI: I get your point.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah. And this goes into everything. Religion wise, culture wise. I mean, even you doing the podcast here, if you are not well read, if you don’t have enough knowledge, if you’re not exposed enough, you can do a podcast and you can’t have a conversation and you can’t ask questions. But if that all was not there, you can still hold your podcast. But guess what happens when I challenge anything you say? You’ll be shattered. You start running around trying to patch things up and trying to find whatever notes that you can put together.

RAJ SHAMANI: I like the answer, by the way.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Great.

RAJ SHAMANI: Genuinely, I like the answer.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I told you I can be the – I do think I’m the least diplomatic person.

RAJ SHAMANI: Not diplomatic.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It’s the truth.

Security and Gun Control Policies

RAJ SHAMANI: In Dubai, you’re not allowed to hang around with your gunmen around.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Right. Public in Dubai, you’re not supposed to know.

RAJ SHAMANI: No.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Right.

RAJ SHAMANI: No matter who you are, how important you are.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: No, no, no.

RAJ SHAMANI: Guns are not allowed.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: No. Even if you have for some reason or the other, the license to own a weapon, you’re not supposed to have it in your pocket or in your car, just walking out. Unless you are of a security nature, security related.

RAJ SHAMANI: Until there’s a very high level clearance for you, you can’t be a normal businessman with 20 bodyguards.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: No.

RAJ SHAMANI: No, it’s not allowed.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: No. But if you work for the security apparatus of the country or the – then those are sort of conditions you have.

Revenue Sources and Economic Model

RAJ SHAMANI: You have the best top of the top infrastructure. You provide safety security which is way better than top countries in the world. In London you can’t be on a street wearing certain things or brands or something or you can’t go in a car and people will just – people lock cars, people just steal. Right? In London, this being the case. So you provide security, you provide infrastructure. There’s everything free for a lot of people. Then you have incredible largest of the largest things, right? And then there’s zero tax. Where is the money coming from?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: So the model is different and unique. Some of the money obviously is coming from oil and gas and there’s a federal and there are local budgets and then those federal entities, for example, they generate their own revenues.

So if you look at Ministry of Foreign Affairs, we get so much revenue from attestations of documents, commercial documents and other personal documents. And that revenue goes to the Ministry of Finance, Minister of Finance based on that obviously because they decide with the cabinet on the allocation for each ministry when it comes to their budgets.

So there are those sources of revenues that are being generated at the local government level. They differ from one place to the other. But you have people, you have to pay, for example, for setting up a trading license, you have to pay certain fees to get certain services connected or certain services provided. And all of this goes also into the local budget and from the local budget to the local expenditure.

Now remember I told you about this property example and that I was able to get an evaluation done specifically the property, but I had to pay for that valuation. So that also goes into that kind of budget versus expenditure kind of thing. So yes, there are so many things that you can – there are so many things that you experience and they are – the infrastructure is great, safety is top notch and correct that all of this is at a cost. But this kind of money is also being generated from other kind of sources and they pay for that.

Investment Opportunities for Young People

RAJ SHAMANI: We’re talking about income generating activities, correct? Talking about revenue sources. If someone like me or someone in their 20s is watching this podcast right now, what would be the top three opportunities for them to make money in UAE today?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Real estate that goes with isn’t saturated.

RAJ SHAMANI: Too many big players entered. Now somebody who’s in 20s doesn’t have enough capital. We can’t enter there and build a real estate empire, can we?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I’ll be specific.

RAJ SHAMANI: Yeah, give me specific. Three opportunities which act as a playbook for me to just go and play.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: So there is now an application called Stake MDUAE. What? Stake.

RAJ SHAMANI: Stake.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Okay. Where it’s specifically designed for individuals who cannot buy whole properties. And you can go in with – it will sound like I’m advertising with them but anyways because that’s how one of the founders was talking about it. You can go in with as little as AED 500 and choose the property that you want to invest in.

And then you actually get fractional ownership, fractional ownership certificate that you’re owning this 1%, 2% or whatever of this property. And then you get rent being paid into your account and that gets accumulated which you can reinvest or you can take out so that you can do at whatever level of income. No problem whatsoever.

Second, the stock market, it has grown fantastically over the past few years and there are quite a few stocks that you can buy at very reasonable prices that pay you very good dividends. Why am I able to tell you this is because I get asked the same question from my cousins and family members to tell them if this is a good investment or a bad investment. So I’ve done some practice indirectly.

RAJ SHAMANI: And you have a finance economics background.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I’m also finance economics background. A 20 year old could also start a business in the UAE. We do need more Indian brands. The UAE, it’s good for someone to think about it and it’s good for someone to do it. And the beauty of this is this can be done at scale with an amazing or very cost efficient baseline that you can easily scale it, scale up and set everywhere.

Sports Culture and Infrastructure

RAJ SHAMANI: There’s one more opportunity. I don’t know if it’s there in Dubai already or no. What I saw this time when I went, there’s a huge sports culture. I was amazed by how every locality has hundreds of turfs for pickle, for paddle, for football, for every little thing. And the culture is –

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: And there’s not even enough by the way.

RAJ SHAMANI: Everything is all time booked. There’s volleyball, there’s basketball, there is badminton.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah.

RAJ SHAMANI: And it’s fascinating to see that the country has so many sports and so many is open out there for public.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Correct.

Future Projects and Innovations

RAJ SHAMANI: And everything is getting used by people. There are groups for everything. And because I believe all the people who are coming and playing there, they’re from different nationalities, from different places. They don’t know each other. So they need groups and they need to start playing. There’s an app here in India, which… yeah, so you play for that.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I was going to tell you that another thing that they could do is develop an app to book all of these places.

RAJ SHAMANI: So we have that app here. I didn’t find anything there because I want to know all the listed places, how far they are and who’s paying and if there’s a spot or not. I want to go book it. Is there something like that?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: There’s one that I used a couple of times called Platomic, I think. If I remember correctly, I haven’t played padel in a while, but that was the app that if I’m not mistaken, we were using when we want to book a padel court to be able to go and play.

RAJ SHAMANI: Like in India we have Huddle.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah. There are other apps, but I believe this is the most popular one.

RAJ SHAMANI: So I like Huddle because obviously they have access to a lot of places. So I found it interesting. If there’s something people can build, maybe they should.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: When I first came to India, I was someone who never played cards. And now I have a daily Majlis and I have people coming in for games of cards. We watch games if there’s any game online, like taking place or live on TV. We watch the World Cup for instance, when the World Cup was happening. Because when I first came it was World Cup time and obviously dinner and so on.

So it also changed certain things in me because of being here. And that’s why I understand the importance of it being in the UAE because it’s very easy to have that dream of wanting to go to the UAE and coming to the UAE. But when you can find common groups, not necessarily of the same nationality, it can be really tough.

UAE’s Ambitious Future Plans

RAJ SHAMANI: What’s the future? What are the craziest things that you guys are doing next? Tell me top three craziest projects that you’re doing next. Maybe in 2030, 2040, 2050, we’ll get to know because we get to hear all sorts of stuff. There’s a Mars simulation that’s getting built. There’s a temperature controlled city that you guys are building. There’s cloud seeding which is happening. That’s artificial rain which will come. I don’t know what all is true and what is not.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Cloud seeding is happening which is why you would see suddenly there is a lot of rain coming to the UAE and this would always be the case. So that’s one. Two, there is this… I probably also need to verify, but the hyperloop conversation has been started again.

RAJ SHAMANI: Whoa.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Now, whether it’s going to happen or not, that’s also another question. But then this means you have much shorter travel time between different emirates in the UAE.

RAJ SHAMANI: Flying taxis, are they coming?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: They’re happening, yes. The other thing is, and this I couldn’t verify either, but I saw an announcement that residents of the UAE would be given premium access to ChatGPT free of charge. I couldn’t verify this on my way here, but it’s one of those things circulating around as well.

Business Culture: Mumbai vs Delhi

RAJ SHAMANI: What’s the difference between a business conference in Delhi versus Mumbai?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: The people are different. The backgrounds that you get are very different. It seems like there are more entrepreneurs here compared to Delhi. So there’s nothing wrong with that. But it’s just that when you’re here, you can feel the startup ecosystem. You can see it. It’s very clear. It’s very evident.

I’ve been to other places. I’ve been to Hyderabad, they had this tech startup cluster. I’ve been to Chennai, I’ve been to other places. Nothing beats Mumbai when it comes to this. And the ideas, the thoughts, the kind of businesses that you have. It seems to me that the only problem is scaling it up.

You have a great idea, you have established your base here in India. How can you take it now to the next step? And I think this is what they find a challenge with, because you can sell in India, but there’s also very specific limit on the pricing that you can charge. It’s just normal because of the market.

And then they know that the natural step is going into the UAE, but then a few of them wouldn’t know what’s the best way to do it. And if they do it, like yesterday, one of the questions that they had was, “How do we make sure that the brand is there? We are here, we have the store or we have the shop or we have the business, but how can we make sure that the clientele, the residents of the UAE are aware of it?” And so the marketing that you need to do is very different than what you would do in India.

The Culture of Gifting

RAJ SHAMANI: There’s also a culture of gifting in UAE. A lot of people, it’s, I think it’s very cultural that you keep giving a lot of gifts to a lot of people.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: And India too, in India as well.

RAJ SHAMANI: Yeah, Asian culture usually. But I’ve seen in UAE, it’s way more. I think people find it… I don’t know, is it in the culture or is it because people don’t know each other, so they want to greet and be extra nice to each other? I have no idea. But there’s a lot of people gifting a lot of stuff to each other.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It’s part of the culture. There’s a thing which I’m pretty sure is applicable for certain individuals. Maybe not for everyone, but let’s assume you see me, you like my coffee mug, and you show a nice smile. We say something in Arabic that means, “It’s yours, you can have it.”

What I would do as Abdulnasser, and you’re someone that I care about, we have friends or there is some sort of friendship there, I would get you one without you even asking for it. And that could go to a certain extent also to more expensive things. But it depends also on the individual and obviously their capacity.

And obviously there are others who would like, if you like the car that I drive, I’m like, “Oh, nice car. It’s yours.” You wouldn’t take it, and then I wouldn’t send you a car next day. That’s not how it works, but you get my point. But I’ve seen that happen.

RAJ SHAMANI: I’ve seen that happening with a bunch of people with watches. Really expensive watches. Somebody’s wearing it. Someone said it in front of me, “Oh, it’s a nice watch.” And the other guy just like, “It’s yours.” And the other was like, “No, no, no, no, I didn’t…” “No, it’s yours. I genuinely would love it if you have it. If you like it, you keep it.”

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah.

RAJ SHAMANI: And I was like, “I should have complimented you.”

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah. So yes, very possible. That’s why I was saying, though, it really depends. But very possible.

RAJ SHAMANI: Do you think that happened when Trump said “nice plane”?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I mean, the culture allows for it.

RAJ SHAMANI: And they were like, “Yeah, you can have it.”

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: The culture allows for it. You never know. But the culture does allow for it. You could compliment something.

Understanding Wasta

RAJ SHAMANI: There’s often a word I’ve heard in UAE, “Wasta.”

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah, yeah. Nepotism, basically. Nepotism in one way or the other.

RAJ SHAMANI: Like in India, we call it “jack approach.”

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Right.

RAJ SHAMANI: Like you have a jack, you have an approach somewhere. In UAE, I’ve heard that if you have strong wasta, then things get really easy for you. Does it work like if I know somebody at some place and I have a connection with them and they are at the hierarchy somewhere?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It works for me if the system allows for it. So no rules will be broken to accommodate such a request.

RAJ SHAMANI: How does UAE allow people to have lions and tigers as pets?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: “Allow” is a big word and a misrepresentation of what’s happening. People have ways to be able to bring those animals. Are they taking care of them? Are they looking after them? Or are they making a joke out of those animals? We have all seen videos where they would see the tiger or the lion walking around between individuals and so on. This is not supposed to happen.

Ministry of Possibilities

RAJ SHAMANI: One of the most fascinating things which I read during my research, you have something called Ministry of Possibilities. What is that?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It’s an office in Emirates Tower. Have you seen Emirates Towers? They’re also at the Jumeirah. So it’s the start of Sheikh Zayed Road.

RAJ SHAMANI: Near Museum of Future.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It’s there. Yeah, there’s an office there. And the idea was that officials can come from different entities and be able to solve issues that they think are impossible to solve or that they think they can’t find solutions for.

And believe it or not, a lot of work can be done when you bring all of those officials in one place from the federal level or from the local level. Which is why in the same place we also see there’s government accelerators, for example. So that speeds up the process. Ministry of Possibilities where you figure out very difficult problems.

Emirati Benefits and Misconceptions

RAJ SHAMANI: What are the benefits of being an Emirati and what are the differences between an Emirati and a non-Emirati living in UAE? What perks do Emiratis get?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: We do get certain allowances. There is now this huge drive to get people married and have more kids. It’s quite fascinating because this was also a discussion that we had a few years back when we were discussing genetic testing.

And the idea is to have… each Emirate has its own policy when it comes to this. But you get certain support when it comes to your wedding expenses. You also get certain support when it comes to getting the plot of land and building that plot of land, so the financing that goes with it.

Those perks are there for Emiratis and usually the plot of land is free and you also get interest-free loan to build that land. And if you need additional financing, you can get it also at good rates.

RAJ SHAMANI: But is every Emirati rich?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: No.

RAJ SHAMANI: Why this misconception that everybody with UAE passport would be ultra rich? Everybody’s from a royal family. Everybody’s a sheikh.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: See, I can use also a personal story here. I grew up with different circumstances and when I got my first job and started making money, that was my salary and so on, there was always something that I needed to take care of, not a want, a need. And I was also looking after my mother. And then my mother retired.

So in my case, I first helped in getting her house done so that she can have a house that she owns and she doesn’t have to worry about moving from one place to another. And then I had, for example, to build my own house. I have kids to look after.

So it always seemed like there’s always something that I needed to take care of. Doesn’t mean I’m not better and more comfortable now. But that didn’t just happen because I was born in the UAE. It happened because I worked really hard. I wanted to always develop personally and professionally, make more money by investing whatever that I’m getting.

The bonuses I get because of my work, if you get a certain evaluation, you get a bonus every year. And lately I was recognized and awarded because of my work and the UAE-India relationship. And this started last year. So the top 10 ambassadors this year, I was one of them. And I got a medal and I got a monetary award.

RAJ SHAMANI: Congratulations, by the way.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Thank you so much. And the medal, you get it once in a lifetime as a civilian.

RAJ SHAMANI: And you got it.

Personal Values and Family

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: And I got it. And believe it or not, the first thing that came to my mind is my mother was still paying for the housing financing that she got because that’s the long-term one. Like you pay over 20, 25 years. And it wasn’t much, but it was taking out of her pension on a monthly basis. And I know that this could still be a thorn. Like it’s a thorny thing when you have to think that there’s something.

And I’m not saying this to position myself like I’m the good son. I’m far from that. But the first thing that came to my mind is to go and settle that for her. Her birthday was a couple of weeks back and I sent her flowers. I can’t remember where I was and a message that says nice stuff, kind stuff that you should say to your mother. And she said something that basically meant, “I really hope your kids do for you what you have done for me.” And I don’t think I would have wished for a better prayer.

Especially when you live through life believing that every single good thing that is happening to you is because of her prayers and because of my grandmother’s prayers, because she has raised me as well and because my father also has done so much to invest in my education and to make me the person that I am by getting me into his business and prepping me for life’s challenges and allowing me to resolve his issues. So I think that’s everything that I wanted to achieve because if I manage to get that, to make her feel that it’s more important than anything else.

RAJ SHAMANI: How sweet.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yeah.

RAJ SHAMANI: You must be a proud son. And your parents also proud.

Career Development and Mentorship

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I hope so. I really hope so. I don’t want to take it for granted because I have it. And don’t get me wrong, I mean, I was also fortunate through my career and having all kinds of opportunities presented to me. The deputy prime minister, foreign minister, he’s not just my boss, but we are also friends. And if it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t have developed career wise to where I am today.

I mean, the first couple of years I was in his office, traveling the world, barely being seen by anyone. And when I walked in, I was the finance economics guy and he made sure that I become someone that understands international relations and politics. And he was the one who proposed that I go to India when I did not think about being posted as a career because this was not my path. And even when I joined the ministry, this was not the idea that I had in mind. And today being in India is the best thing that ever happened to me, career wise.

RAJ SHAMANI: Perfect. Thank you so much for sharing your story and all my questions, answering them so calmly and gracefully. Thank you so much.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Thank you so much.

RAJ SHAMANI: Thank you.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: It’s been great.

RAJ SHAMANI: It’s a pleasure having you here.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Likewise.

Future Plans and Closing

RAJ SHAMANI: Looking forward to more conversation. The next time in Bombay. I’ll take you to the cooler side, which probably your protocol will allow.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: And when you’re in Dubai, we go for a HIIT workout.

RAJ SHAMANI: Yes, we’ll do that. I’m looking forward to it.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: All right. Hello. Nice to meet you.

RAJ SHAMANI: Pleasure meeting you. Please have a seat.

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: I can have this to you or… Yes, you can.

RAJ SHAMANI: How are you doing?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Very good.

RAJ SHAMANI: Do you carry your water and coffee everywhere?

DR. ABDULNASSER ALSHAALI: Yes. So not because… Well, because one time I had someone come into my office in Delhi and they saw the water and they’re like, “Ah, so you don’t drink Indian water? You get your own water.” No, no, no. It’s just water with electrolytes. It’s Indian water, but with electrolytes.

RAJ SHAMANI: Thank you so much. This episode needs to be shared because one conversation can change someone’s life. I’ll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out.

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