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Transcript of General Upendra Dwivedi on ANI Podcast with Smita Prakash

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Introduction

INTERVIEWER: Namaste Jai Hind. You’re watching or listening to another edition of the ANI podcast with Smita Prakash. My guest today is the Indian Army Chief General Upendra Dwivedi. This is the first time that a serving Chief of Army Staff has ever appeared on a podcast and we are honoured to have him with us in our studio.

General Dwivedi is the 30th Chief of Army Staff. He’s been General Officer commanding in chief Northern Command. Prior to that he served as the Deputy Chief of Army Staff Information Systems and Coordination and as the General Officer commanding of the 9th Corps. General Dwivedi is the recipient of the Param Vishisht Seva Medal and the Ati Vishisht Seva Medal. Joining me in the podcast today is my colleague Ajit Dubey.

General Dwivedi, thank you so much for coming to the podcast at ANI. We are all very excited to have a serving chief coming in out here and talking to us. But I am going to begin with that sweet country on our northern border called China. I just want to know where are we right now on the boundary situation, disengagement and de-escalation? In your press conferences you say this and beat reporters like Ajit know the meaning but for layman or in layman terms, what do these two terms mean? Where are we right now on the boundary situation with our wonderful neighbour?

Disengagement and De-escalation with China

GENERAL UPENDRA DWIVEDI: Let me explain the disengagement part as such. As you are aware in April 2020 that some places we had difference of perception and we had to lead to violent means. So when that happened there was some kind of a, if I can say that both sides were in contact with each other and over a period of time both sides then decided to get back. So when they get back then it is called as disengagement.

As you are aware, Depsang-Demchok that something which we had done earlier but some places where we felt there is a requirement kind of resolve that issue further. So on the 21st of October 2024 we signed those documents or agreements and thereafter, wherever such issues are still pending, we could resolve that.

Now what happens once you have done that? What is the next stage? Next stage, like I keep saying that both sides in their own side, that is China side and India side. What you have done, you have constructed billeting, you have constructed a few roads over a period of time. So what happened? The capability to bring troops forward changes which are vis-a-vis what it was earlier.

So if that be the case, what you do you define the new definition that how do we go about ahead as far as this is concerned though the patrolling and grazing rights and those issues have been resolved. There is a need to harmonize this and that’s when the military side you have seen that from the battalion commander till corps commander level, we have allowed people to talk to each other so that wherever there is some kind of a doubt we can raise the level and resolve it.

But all this is dependent on the SR meeting which took place under NSA and the empowerment has been given to WMCC this mechanism is basically.

INTERVIEWER: Sorry sir to interrupt SR Special Representative. We have some, you know, expats also watching it. So SR means special representative.

GENERAL UPENDRA DWIVEDI: This had earlier taken place in 2019-20 after that it was put on hold. So this is the first time on the 18th of December this meeting took place where some kind of directions have been given out how to go about resolving this. Then the WMCC that is headed by the Joint Secretary of the MEA under which one of the reps of the military is also there. So then both sides sit together and provide us the strategic guidance.

So as and when they provided this strategic guidance based on that, we’ll move ahead. But meanwhile what I have done, I’ve empowered all the corps commanders along the line of actual control to make sure that whatever issues can be resolved at their level. Where there is a misinterpretation of understanding and which can escalate to violence, that should be something.

So we had what are we looking at that is there a requirement for us to look into that? Do we need to reduce the troops? Do we need to kind of have more confidence building measures? So all this will only take place once we come to a common point. Okay, from here we will start and these are the steps which will follow. So once the steps are decided, how to go about it will move ahead.

Sir, recently on the China issue, leader of opposition like opposition leader Rahul Gandhi made a statement that Chief of Army staff has already said that there was incursion in Ladakh sector and which was later like do you want to say something on that? That why a serving chief is being misquoted or being dragged into a political thing. This being a political question, I think the political answer has been given by Raksha Mantri Ji in form of Twitter and MOD details description which has been given out. But two things which I learned from that, that first thing it is important that I must make an endeavor that army should not be involved in the politics.

Terrain Doctoring and Troop Deployment

INTERVIEWER: A month ago you held a press conference and you said about the situation on the boundary and I quote “has the terrain been doctored over a period of time? Yes, both sides have doctored the terrain. Have both sides carried out construction? Yes, both sides have carried out some stocking and deployment? Yes. Therefore what it means is that there is a degree of standoff.” Could you explain to us what does doctored terrain mean?