On Purpose Podcast: Selena Gomez on Letting Go, Healing, and Finding Her True Self (Transcript)

I’ve had the fortune of getting to know her over the last few years and I can honestly say that not only is she one of the most genuine and kind hearted people I know, she’s also just one of the most loving and soulful people who truly wants to change lives.

I have to start the episode by saying this. I believe today’s guest is someone who’s extremely on purpose. I’m speaking about the one and only Selena Gomez, one of the most globally and culturally celebrated artists, actors, producers, entrepreneurs and most importantly, I know to her, philanthropists of her generation.

As a recording artist, Selena has sold more than 210 million singles worldwide and has over 45 billion global streams. Her upcoming biographical documentary, which I want you to go and see, “Selena Gomez: My Mind and Me” is out right now. I got to see it earlier. I’ll tell you all about it.

And in 2019, Selena launched her beauty line, Rare Beauty, exclusively with Sephora. As part of the partnership, Gomez announced the Rare Impact Fund, pledging to raise—this is outstanding—pledging to raise $100 million for mental health services for individuals in underserved communities.

Philanthropy and activism have been key pillars of Selena’s career and she’s used her platform to advocate for many important causes. Selena has raised millions of dollars for charity, including Global Citizen and the Lupus Research Alliance. Please welcome to the show Selena Gomez. Selena, it is so wonderful to be with you.

SELENA GOMEZ: That was so nice. I felt very emotional and I felt so honored. Thank you for saying those kind words.

JAY SHETTY: I meant every word. I think whenever I’ve sat with you we’ve always had a conversation about purpose, always had a conversation about service, always had a conversation that’s reflective. But I wanted to start with this because we are going to talk about lots of deep and meaningful things today.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yes.

A First Memory

JAY SHETTY: But I also wanted to start with this because it’s my first memory of meeting you and you’ve probably forgotten this, but at least for me.

SELENA GOMEZ: Here we go.

JAY SHETTY: Okay. So you’d come over for dinner. There’s the first time we met. And I remember that we were about to eat. My wife had made dinner for us. And we say a prayer before we eat. But the prayer is chanted and sung somewhat in Sanskrit, which is a language that a lot of prayers are in for my practice.

And I remember having to do it in front of you. And then after opening my eyes and go, I just had to sing in front of Selena Gomez.

SELENA GOMEZ: Right. I actually do remember that.

JAY SHETTY: You remember how bad it was?

SELENA GOMEZ: Yes. You were like, I don’t know if I should sing in front of you. I was like, please. I thought it was beautiful. I thought it was amazing. And also just to say the food was incredible, I remember that more than anything.

The Power of the Documentary

JAY SHETTY: I love that. Well, I wanted to start off by just saying to you that I truly believe that this documentary is so special. Genuinely, thank you. It’s powerful, it’s inspiring, and it’s the work that we so deeply need right now.

And your voice in the conversation, the global conversation around well being and mental health is the most powerful voice there is. It really is.

SELENA GOMEZ: Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: And so when you put out a piece like this and you let us in, it only strengthens the conversation across the world and that’s something that you’re doing. So I want to just start off by saying that from the bottom of my heart, I’m so grateful to you.

SELENA GOMEZ: Thank you for saying that. I think that is a huge part of why I decided to release it after having an internal battle, I mean, daily. At one point, maybe I shouldn’t do this, maybe I shouldn’t release it. And this is too honest, this is too much of myself.

Until I realized that ultimately it was meant for something bigger. It wasn’t just about me, it was about other people. And it took a life of its own and became what it is now, which I’m still nervous about, I’m still anxious about. But I think releasing it is a huge healing, a healing process for me. And it’s me letting go of that version of myself.

JAY SHETTY: Wow, that’s so powerful to hear that. I mean, when I hear you say that, I feel like you’re one of these people that you serve in order to heal and you give in order to let go. And that’s such a beautiful cycle because I think often we think when we’re going through things that the more insular we go, right? But you’re someone who opens up and says, here it is.

Choosing Love Over Armor

SELENA GOMEZ: I think, you know, being in moments of my life, whether it was my health or personal life, friendships, relationships, I feel like giving myself completely to something is just the best way I can love. But I never wanted the pain that I endured to put some sort of guard on myself. An armor, if you will. And I never let that happen.

Because I still believe and I still hope. I hope for love, and I hope for healing, and I hope for change, and I never want to lose that. Of course, there are days where I feel so far away, but I would rather continue to get my heart broken than to not feel at all.

JAY SHETTY: That’s the greatest sign of strength. I mean, that is such a powerful statement. And I think with a statement like that, you’re encouraging so many people to feel heard. I mean, I think most of us feel far away from those things, right? And we’re scared to admit that.

I mean, you start the documentary with the promise of, “I’m going to share my darkest secrets.” And when I heard that, I thought, wow. Like, I was thinking, Selena, what was—why is it that when we share our dark—what happens when we share our darkest secrets, not just for you, but for any of us, when you’re with your friends, when you’re with your families, like, what does that do?

Sharing Your Story Safely

SELENA GOMEZ: I think at first it’s frightening, but I feel like if you surround yourself with people who support you and love you, you have to be careful with who you share your story with. I think that can be dangerous.

Sharing something that maybe was really hurtful, or sharing a story about your internal struggles to someone who may not be giving you the right advice or guiding you another way that will only lead you to more pain is scary. So first and foremost, I would say making sure you surround yourself with great people.

And then I would say learn everything there is to learn once it’s out. Once you say, okay, I’m dealing with depression, then find out every single thing you can about what that means. And when you have a relationship with depression, as opposed to, you know, allowing it to keep sinking inside of you, it’s a little bit more freeing, I think, to understand yourself better.

I want to know what triggers me. I want to know why I get depressed and start asking yourself questions to open up yourself instead of—you know, it’s easier said than done, though, I should say. But instead of keeping it in, I find that the biggest reward is letting it go.

Learning to Understand Fear

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. I think there’s that statement in the documentary that says, you said your mom would always say, if you’re afraid of something, learn more about it, and then your fear will go away or something according to those.

SELENA GOMEZ: She definitely did that. When I was younger, I lived in Texas, and we were huge with the tornado scene. That was what was happening, and I was terrified. So I would bring, like, a cross, and I’d bring, like, a big pillow, and I’d lay in my bathtub, because that’s what I Googled is supposedly going to help.

And my mom would just kind of smile at me. And she—the next day, I remember she got me a bunch of books, and it was all about thunderstorms and different clouds and formations and all this stuff. And she just told me, she’s like, “It’s not that scary. You know, it’s especially when you know that it’s just a part of the world.” And I guess they are still scary. But now I understand what happens.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, but I love how you’re applying that to depression. You’re applying that to different things in your life.

SELENA GOMEZ: I completely agree with—I mean, my favorite thing that I say in the documentary is that I have bipolar. I just learn how to live with it, and I just have made it my friend because that’s truly what it can be to me now. Yeah.

From Inner Critic to Inner Friend

JAY SHETTY: And tell us about that process of when you first discover something like that. Like you said, it’s easier said than done. The voices are so loud. There’s so much inner judgment. You know, our inner critic is so painful to live with. And now when you’re saying, I’m trying to work on making it a friend, which is a beautiful transition. Tell us a bit about that journey of inner critic to inner friend.

SELENA GOMEZ: Well, to be honest, I’ve been to four treatment centers, and I have a lot of opinions on, you know, rehabs, if you will, or places to go. There’s a lot that I don’t agree with, but what I will say is, throughout all of it, learning lessons through dialectical behavior therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy, there’s something that’s always been embedded in me throughout all of those different moments in my life, and that was always to recognize when something was happening to me, accepting it.

And I think once I realized that this was something that wasn’t going to go away, this wasn’t something that was going to be fixed by going to these places. It was more so what can I know about myself? Okay, if I kind of go down this road, I’m going to get triggered. And I know that feeling and I know how to avoid it.

However, I go to therapy. I also have, you know, medication that I fully am on that I believe in full heartedly and it helps me stay balanced. But I still have to deal with it. You know, I still have days that are pretty low and moments that I’m just too over the top and I’m like, I want to buy everyone a house and I want to save the world.

But I just, I’ve learned to kind of understand it. And the best part about that is also my family and friends learning how to live with it too. They can be great friends to me in that way. And that took a lot of time as well.

Making Difficult Things Livable

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, no, these are such, you know, I know that you do so much work in this space, but today when I’m hearing you share all these insights and they genuinely are insights, they’re so powerful because even you just saying like I had to realize that I don’t have to fix it or that it’s not going to go away. Like these things make difficult things livable with.

SELENA GOMEZ: Right.

JAY SHETTY: And when we look at the seasons or we look at the weather, it’s like, you know it’s going to rain one day and you know it’s going to be dark one day and you know it’s going to be sunny another day. And when you know that, you stop trying to fight it and change it.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: You can accept it. Which it sounds from what I’m hearing from you.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah. I mean it’s taken me a long time. It’s—that’s not six years, that’s probably 10 years in reality. But it’s, it really, it’s really been interesting and I feel better and I feel great now that I can talk about it.

The Art of Letting Go

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Yeah. The thing you keep mentioning today is letting go. And I think all of us are trying to know how to let go of old selves, old parts of ourselves or parts that don’t serve us anymore.

And I remember when I lived as a monk, some of the areas that we’d live in there were often we’d come across a lot of snakeskin and we’d always use snakes as an analogy of how we leave behind. So snakes don’t break out, they don’t rip their skin off. They slither out, and their skin just kind of falls away.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yes.

Learning to Let Go with Compassion

JAY SHETTY: And then we would naturally not find snakes, thankfully, and find skin. But that analogy always really resonated with me, the idea that when we’re shedding, when we’re letting go, it’s not an aggressive process. How did you learn to become compassionate and calmer with yourself? Because at first, we can really feel like we’re trying to break something off.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah. I think I tend to blame myself when I can’t let something go. I feel maybe something is my fault or I should have done more of this or less of that, and it starts to become, you know, just really—I kind of turn sad.

One thing I’ve noticed, when I watched the documentary back for the first time, I didn’t even recognize that girl anymore. And it broke my heart because I was talking about my body and my image and I just hate that I ever felt those feelings.

And I think because I have a younger sister, there’s been this huge responsibility given to me in a way that has helped me. And I say this about my fans as well, or people that have grown with me. I’ve almost had to get back up every time, more so for them than myself. And that’s something I’ve learned to really understand.

It’s healthy to want to be strong for other people, but I needed to recognize I needed to be strong for myself, and that took a while. And it took things like making myself uncomfortable and changing my thought process, changing the things I watch on TV, changing the music I’m listening to. Little things that I can adjust that will perhaps change my mood or make me feel better instead of worse, you know?

JAY SHETTY: It is some of these small things, isn’t it?

SELENA GOMEZ: Oh, my gosh. I love scary movies, but I can’t watch them all the time. I’m happy, and I’m like, “Guys, let’s watch a scary, scary movie.” Everyone’s like, “Why? Why on earth do you want to do that right now?” And you’re kind of like, “Yeah, you’re right.”

JAY SHETTY: Do they manage to persuade you?

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah, most of the time. But it was Halloween, so I got my way for a few weeks.

JAY SHETTY: You did? What did you end up watching?

SELENA GOMEZ: Oh, we watched Halloween. We watched Freddy Krueger, Nightmare on Elm Street.

JAY SHETTY: Which one ruins your mood the worst? Which one makes it—

SELENA GOMEZ: Oh, my goodness. Probably hereditary. Something really dark. But it was fun. It was Halloween. We were just celebrating.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, no, there’s—I always call it cliffhanger chemicals.

SELENA GOMEZ: Oh, yeah.

JAY SHETTY: I feel like when we watch things that put us into states of anxiety or stress, we release all these cliffhanger chemicals. And now you’re like, “Well, why can’t I sleep?”

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah, exactly. Why am I having bad dreams?

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Radhi’s like that. So my wife’s like that. She can’t—I have to—she always gets really excited to watch things like that too. I’m like, “Radhi, we can’t do this because you would not let me sleep for the rest of the night.”

SELENA GOMEZ: So funny. Yeah.

Living Under the Spotlight

JAY SHETTY: But I think it’s really beautiful to hear you say there’s these little changes, because I think that’s what people feel hardest to change. And I think when I watch the documentary, the greatest challenge you really empathize with is having to do this when every time you’re in a car and then every time you get out the car, there’s cameras, there’s people, there’s opinions, there’s—you know, that’s something very few people can relate to.

But I think what’s so brilliant about how the documentary is made is that you really feel like we’re living that with you.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: And so you’re like, “Wow.” Even though I can’t relate to what Selena is going through, I can understand how it must be really challenging and really stressful. And so what’s it like having to deal with all of this that all of us are dealing with too, but you’re dealing with it with an added layer of exposure?

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah. To be honest, I don’t know any different.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

SELENA GOMEZ: That’s what’s really scary. Sometimes I think that’s really sad, and other times I just think, “Well, this is what I’ve been given, and this is the path that I want to continue to walk in.” And I know any moment I can quit and walk away. And, you know, that’s just not really how I was raised to be.

So maybe if it had happened to me later in life, I would have had a different outcome. But because I was raised in it, I really had to learn the hard way on how to deal with it, on how to not give, if you will, that clickbait that people want.

And, I mean, I think I do my best to try and eliminate these negative stories or other people illustrating my journey. I just interrupt them with my truth. And that’s what I will always continue to do. And that’s what this documentary does as well. It’s going to be me taking control of my story, and no one can change that or say any different.

Taking Control of the Narrative

JAY SHETTY: I actually am so glad you addressed that because I’ve always found that with you, that you always lead with love, even in those areas. And I always am so in admiration of that and in awe of that because I see that whenever there’s a narrative, that whenever there’s any narrative, your choice will always be to lead with love and inject love into that and to recalibrate.

When did you find the strength to start taking control of that narrative? Because I think that’s an amazing skill, that today people need it more than ever. But when—yeah, when did you start developing the confidence around that, needing to do that?

SELENA GOMEZ: I would probably say I started beginning to gain that confidence when I went through a breakup. And that’s something that was super public. But all of those things that I had felt so bad about myself and just so terrible every day—I wanted to debunk those feelings. I wanted to take control over that narrative because I did feel that way.

But the greatest gift I got from all of that was me actually being honest with people, sharing my story and gaining the confidence to know I am enough. And I actually work really hard at being a good person and I know I’m a great person.

And when people paint these unnecessary stories, it actually gives me pleasure to just combat it with love, like you said, or kindness. You know, I think it’s actually fun for me because it is who I am. I don’t—I can’t waste my time. If I’m to be honest with everyone in this room, I don’t want to waste my time being upset or taking in all of the negative things that I hear online.

And I don’t even hear it. It’s just when it gets really bad, other people tell me, and then I see inhumane things happening and people talking negatively about other women, and it just drives me absolutely crazy. And I think I’ll just always be that kind of person. And I would say I’m grateful for my past because it’s made me a lot stronger.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Well, I want you to know that, you know, we see you for that.

SELENA GOMEZ: Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: It is, it is. Whenever you do that, I am completely mind blown because it requires so much self-assurance, it requires so much commitment to your truth and then also for everyone else. So thank you so much for leading the way. Even in that—another thing—no, it’s so hard to do. It’s so easy to be defensive. And you’ve found, because it’s your truth, you found a way of sharing your truth without making it defensive.

SELENA GOMEZ: Of course. I mean, thank you. I don’t know if I intentionally do it, but it works really well. So I’m sticking to it.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, stick to it. Don’t change it.

SELENA GOMEZ: Teach it. Yeah, exactly.

The Reality of Press and Interviews

JAY SHETTY: Teach it the new master class. Yeah. No, I genuinely mean that. Genuinely, one of the things that comes through in the documentary is we’re just getting full access. That’s what it feels, right? Full access at all times. And we get to see all of your relationships, and you get to see the relationships that are long term. You get newer relationships. You get all these different people who are interacting with you, and they’re interacting with you in every element.

We get to see you straight after an interview, straight before an interview. And I could tell there was a time when you feel a bit of angst because you get asked poor questions or, you know, and I could see that in you. And that really hit me because the reason we set up this conversation, this podcast in the first place was I was hoping that it would be a place where people like yourself could share your true purpose.

And seeing you share on screen just how hard it can be to deal with—does it minimize the work you’re trying to do? What happens? Tell me what happens when you’re asked—

SELENA GOMEZ: I actually just feel insulted sometimes. I sit in—I work so hard. I love what I do. I love my job. I love talking about my job. There’s different facets of my job that I love talking about for different reasons.

And when I sit down and I have to do press from, you know, starting at 8:00 a.m. till, you know, whenever the night ends, it’s frustrating. You want to spend that time talking about meaningful moments. And I just—I wanted that to be in the documentary because I felt like—I know that a lot of artists, maybe not everyone, but I know a lot of artists and people in my position feel that way.

And I hope that it will only, you know, maybe shift that a bit and maybe stop asking people what word you associate with marshmallow and maybe ask them how they’re doing. You know, maybe just having a bit of an inspiration to do more and be better. And yeah, it actually is pretty crazy because that happens. It’s weird.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, it is really weird.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: And it’s interesting because I feel like there’s such a trend that’s been created about asking people clickbaity, buzzy, you know, moment questions. And then you think, “Well, but this is a human totally with emotions and ideas and views.” And I think often people think, “Oh, well, I’ve only got them for 10 minutes. I better just ask them all this stuff.” But you forget that there’s a whole person behind that.

The documentary really humanizes you. What parts of you did you really want people to understand better or see more that you think they haven’t been able to see over time?

Showing the Real, Imperfect Self

SELENA GOMEZ: I guess, where I was meant to be. In the beginning, it really made me kind of sad. I wanted it to be a documentary that was really fun and about me doing this big tour. And instead I felt so bad because we were filming these really intense moments and then I had to stop filming.

And I think I really ultimately wanted people to realize that I’m not really that put together, but I can be. And I feel much better now. But I don’t want people to ever look at me and think, “She has it all and she’s figured it out and she is, you know, perfect or whatever.” I hope no one thinks that.

But I just don’t ever want to be that kind of public figure. I want to be someone that hopefully could be a friend that could just disarm you from the celebrity-esque part of it. I just want to be someone that people can genuinely walk up to and say, “Hey, I kind of understand what you walked through. I did too.” And have a conversation with.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Why is that important? Why do you think it’s important that—I guess for a long time people did consider celebrity to be perfect. Or maybe it was portrayed that way sometimes, maybe it wasn’t. But why do you think it’s important for people to see that no one in the world, including you, anyone we’re talking about, there’s no one who’s perfect. But why is that so important?

SELENA GOMEZ: It’s important to me because I felt like I had to be. When I was going through relationships, I felt like I had to be a certain way. That’s why in 2016, I was talking about my body and talking about my appearance and talking about how, “Oh, everyone’s going to see me as this Disney kid. No one’s going to take me seriously.” All of those moments, that’s kind of where—yeah, that’s where all the confusion came from for me. Yeah.

Embracing Imperfection

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, no, that does make sense. That’s a really fascinating answer because, yeah, it’s almost like you’ve had to live that way, and then you’re kind of unpacking it for everyone and breaking down that image that’s created. And I think that definitely comes across one of the things that stood out to me in that unpacking of the perfection element that you’re talking about.

We’re so scared of imperfection because it reveals there’s parts of us that are not ideal by some external comparison or by some internal trigger or some past experience where we have that feeling. How do you now deal with your imperfections? Like, how do you feel about parts of you that are not perfect?

SELENA GOMEZ: I’m okay with that. I actually think a lot of who I am are just a few things that are not perfect, even down to my laugh. Sometimes I used to be insecure about my laugh or, you know, the fact that I’ll always talk during a movie or, you know, I always do something minuscule. And I think little things like that make me happy because I feel like everybody else in the world.

You know, recent, for example, very small example, but Halloween, I was a banana, and I genuinely just, like, got the cheapest outfit, put it on, and roam around Times Square with my friends and have the best time. And everyone kept sending me these memes because everybody else kind of went all out. And maybe I could have painted my face and done a little more, but everyone looked really sexy and fun, and literally, I was a banana.

That basically sums up who I am to a T. And it was that. That, to me, means that I don’t have to be perfect all the time. I’d rather be that girl.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And how does that apply to work? Like, how does that perfectionist mindset work in terms of, like, music or creation or acting? Like, because that’s beautiful. In your personal life, it sounds like there’s this acceptance of, you know, we can be more in flow. But then how does that apply to, like, writing or creating or building?

SELENA GOMEZ: Well, I think I always say this in any session: there are no stupid questions. I always have to say that out loud because sometimes I genuinely will think, well, what does this mean? And how can I unpack this and create a song from this? Or how do I unpack this scene and do the best I can?

You know, there are mistakes that happen in the studio and on set that actually end up becoming a part of it. You know, me messing up a line actually ended up being funny and we kept it in the show, or, you know, there’s something I said in a lyric that was wrong, and it ends up being the biggest hook that we’ve got. And I look for those moments. I crave those moments.

JAY SHETTY: That’s a great example. I love all of those.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: And that’s what feels like magic, right? When the imperfection can somehow become a part of the process where you’re just like, wow, this actually feels like we got somewhere. And so I think when we start, I love that idea applied both personally and professionally, because I think even the parts of ourselves that we consider to be imperfect, the parts of ourselves that we consider to be broken, when you start seeing use in those, when you start seeing purpose in those, it’s—

Finding Blessing in the Breaking

SELENA GOMEZ: I always say that there’s blessing in the breaking. And every moment that you encounter in your life, even if it’s just road rage, as simple as that, to maybe losing someone that you love, there is no perfect way to heal. There is no perfect way of dealing with something.

It’s more just, how am I going to be a better person? How am I going to make the best choice for myself so that I don’t end up angry at that person on the highway, so that I don’t end up ruining my day because of what someone did to me on the 405?

You know, I want to also say that how can I turn something like losing someone I so dearly love into, well, how can I celebrate that person and the great things that they provided me or that they gave me? That takes a lot of work. So I don’t say that lightly, but I try my hardest to do that. And I try to have my friends hold me accountable to reminding me, hey, let’s try to flip this and try to turn it into something else.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think what I’m gathering from listening to you is that, again, it’s you’re not saying, “I’ve arrived, and this is how I think.” Now you’re saying, “This is what I’m trying to practice.” Like, this is the approach that I’m mining in my own life.

SELENA GOMEZ: Absolutely, this is practice. Every day is practice. I even said it last night at the premiere. I was saying, I don’t have anything figured out. I am definitely not, like, “I’m sold. I’m good.”

It’s more just, this is a continuation. My story’s not done, and I can’t wait to find out what’s going to happen next, and doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy. And sure, there’s going to be bumps that happen, but I’m going to learn how to live with them.

Returning Home

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. As someone who’s so committed to moving forward, what did it feel like going back to, like, your school and all these old places? I won’t give away too many, but in the documentary you go and visit, what does that do?

SELENA GOMEZ: Well, going home is like, to me, it’s untainted territory. It is safe. It is simple and kind. Where I’m from, it is all about being together, loving each other. I go home and people are like, “Welcome home, Ms. Gomez.” They’re not treating me any differently.

And I enjoy visiting, you know, what made me who I am. And it always gives me a good sense of, oh, I hope I can inspire people from where I’m from, because there’s not a lot to do where I’m from, but I hope I can inspire just one person to do something bigger than that.

JAY SHETTY: Was there any particular place that you went back that almost gave you a special feeling or something surprised you that you’re like, “Oh, I didn’t think this was going to be—”

SELENA GOMEZ: Well, my snow cone place. I really loved that place with my dad all the time and my cousin, and we would get the pickle snow cones with, like, you know, grape in it, and it would just be so yummy and amazing.

And it just, you know, brought me back to when it would be so hot in Texas and I was with my family, and we would just stop there and sit outside for an hour and just talk, and it was just the best.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that’s great to hear. I think there’s always—I have this park in my hometown, it’s called Broomfield Park, and it’s still charming to me, even though I don’t think anyone else went. They’d be like, I know, but when I go back, I know where I used to go and buy my ice cream from, and, you know, where the truck would be. And there’s all these special moments that you—

But it sounds like, again, it sounds like it’s not like you’re like, “Oh, I missed that.” It’s almost like that was a part of me, and it’s a beautiful thing. But now I’m happy to be new. And even today, when we were just walking over here and we were talking about just you finding places that fuel you.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

Embracing Change

JAY SHETTY: And it seems like you’ve become open to saying, “Okay, it’s okay that life is changing and transitioning, and there’s new places that feel more like home than old places.”

SELENA GOMEZ: I hate change. I really do. But I felt in the past year, which is pretty just—it’s pretty new.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

SELENA GOMEZ: I have really, really embraced the uncomfortableness of change. And I think it’s because I get so exhausted of the same thing over and over again, and it scares me. But I did learn that my world can be bigger by being in a different destination.

I work on my show Only Murders in the Building. It’s in New York where I shoot, and I’ve never spent more than a week or two in New York, and I’m there for months. And just that alone was an uncomfortable experience. But I loved it. And I loved the friendships I made and the knowledge that I was gaining.

The people I was around, the park and walking and just how, like, precious life is. It’s celebrated, there’s culture. It just becomes addicting to want to put yourself in these situations and see what happens. So I will say, in the past year, I felt more comfortable with change, and I’m grateful for it. And I just—I’m going to continue to do that. I want that.

JAY SHETTY: How did you get comfortable with that discomfort? I guess, in the first place, if you’re someone who said, you know, like, hated change, didn’t like change, like what—I guess, obviously naturally work and everything like that, but was there something internally where you’re like, “Okay, now I need to—” Because you’ve done this. You’ve done uncomfortable things your whole life, right?

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah, definitely.

JAY SHETTY: You’ve had to do so many difficult things. Whether it’s going on tour when you’re young or transitioning careers, you’ve constantly done uncomfortable things.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah. But I think I had always kind of returned to the same behavior and the same pattern of maybe, well, I’m nervous of going out because I don’t want to be seen today, or I’m going to just stay in because I feel anxious or I don’t want to go out to that event because I don’t want to get seen.

I was finding myself just being terrified of the world, and that just isn’t a way of living. And it’s easy to go do a job because, well, I’m with a bunch of people. They help me look good, I do my job, I smile and I’m done.

But taking spontaneous trips or, you know, getting out and going to the Balboa Park, which is a very simple park, just doing that kind of stuff is necessary. And I noticed that New York really helped me. It just really opened me up. The show is really great, and I think being around a bunch of New Yorkers, it does something to you, man. It’s good.

The Africa Trip

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Well, one of the biggest changes in atmosphere that you talk about in the documentary is you go to Africa, right? And that’s like a—that’s a big change, you know, even if it’s a shorter period of time. But you were still there for a—

SELENA GOMEZ: I was there for a week, yes. But, I mean, that definitely wasn’t the first time that I had taken trips in the vein of wanting to go for a mission. And it was one of the most beautiful moments of the film for me because we actually thought we were just going to make a quick little video about, you know, what we were there to do.

And then we fell in love with the people, we fell in love with the story. And we started noticing that everywhere in the world, mental health is very, very real. It’s very much something that’s affecting everyone. And then you kind of realize that the world is—it’s a small place sometimes because you’re all kind of walking through pain and you’re all looking at things in a different way, but ultimately you all want to be happy.

And I felt like they inspired me more than I could have done anything for them. It was a really beautiful trip. And, yeah, it was one of my favorite moments of the film.

JAY SHETTY: People don’t always understand how mental health exists everywhere in the world. When you said that they’re also experiencing mental health, what was their experience of it compared to what we would understand as our experience in the U.S.?

The Power of Human Connection Across Cultures

SELENA GOMEZ: Well, I was talking to a woman named Betty, and she was basically kind of the person touring or giving us the tour around the village and the schools. And she was lovely. But when we stopped to have a conversation, we just were sitting down and she told me her story and how she was dealing with suicidal thoughts, and then how she went to a lake and sat there for two weeks contemplating—not a day or an hour of moment. It was two weeks.

And that was something that I felt floored by because that’s different. Obviously, we can have those thoughts. But she dismissed herself from everyone, and she had to find it with herself when so many people don’t need to walk through that alone. But she did, and she did it well, and she’s proud of it.

And now she is in an incredible school and she is going to grow up to be the best influence for her village, for her sisters, for everyone that she’s around. That’s so, so special. And I’m just having those conversations with someone from across the world, it’s mind blowing. You don’t really know what people are walking through until you do stop and have a conversation. Two weeks, I can’t imagine that feeling, what you must be walking through for two weeks to just be sitting there.

JAY SHETTY: And did she feel the same from your deeper conversation with her? Did she feel the same feeling that a lot of people do here, where it’s like, “I don’t know who to talk to and I don’t know who to open up to and who don’t know to trust”?

SELENA GOMEZ: She thought that she needed to be everything for her family and she felt like she was letting them down. Same thing of not feeling good enough, not feeling like her being there would even be helpful. And you do find the similarities in it. And that’s how I felt like I bonded with her.

JAY SHETTY: It’s incredible, right? Like cross culture, cross world, to have a human moment like that with someone. What purpose have those missions played in your life in terms of, like you said, this is not the first time you’ve been out and I’m sure it’s not the last as well. It’s something that you want to continue to do. I mean, there was a moment in the documentary where you don’t want to leave.

Finding Purpose Through Service

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah, I don’t think I necessarily will always be broadcasting when I’m taking these trips or wanting to do more and help and travel. So I think that I will probably have these quarterly or even just maybe once a year. I kind of have to set time apart for that. And I make it a priority just because I feel personally that everyone is my brother and sister. We’re all here together, living, being and, you know, wanting to navigate life together.

And I want to continue to travel the world and be able to spread some sort of message or bring change in some form. I don’t know, something, you know, I want to be able to continue to always do something. And eventually I do believe my life will end up being something along the lines of doing the things that you do. You know, I got a few more things to do first, but eventually, yes.

JAY SHETTY: Well, you’re already doing them. You’re already doing them. And yeah, there’s that moment. There’s a moment in the documentary, I think you’re asked through a mirror envelope question, what is your greatest dream or your ultimate dream, I think is the word. And this is exactly what you say. You say, “I want to find a way to change lives, and I want to find a way to impact lives.” And I think when people think of their ultimate dream, that’s not the natural thing that comes to their mind.

SELENA GOMEZ: Right.

JAY SHETTY: When did serving, when did helping others become such a big—understanding others as well? Because it’s not just—I know you feel you’re growing from these experiences. When did that become an ultimate dream? Like, when did that—

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: What was your dream as a little girl? And then, you know, how did that evolve?

The Influence of Family Values

SELENA GOMEZ: I think that I was just—I was just going to say my mom. I mean, from a very young age, we didn’t have a lot, but it didn’t matter. It was every Thanksgiving we were going to—you know, we would go and help out in soup kitchens, and my mom would talk to me about, you know, why we were there, and explain to me the way of the world, and we would, you know, see really hard things.

And Texas, you know, can be very, you know, very conservative. And my mom would just break those barriers for me and explain to me how beautiful people are and how complicated and complex things are about the world. She never protected me in a way of not showing me the bad things. She showed me everything. And that’s what has always been a part of my life.

I mean, down to—I’d be on set, and I’d be talking to the director, and someone would come give me a water. And if my mom noticed that I didn’t say thank you, she would just remind me gently in a way that was like, “Hey, next time, be aware and be thankful.” And it’s kind of like, “Oh, yeah, you’re right. Sorry, Mom.” But you’re right. You are. You got to be aware of people, and you have to be aware of what people are walking through.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. I mean, that’s such a—yeah, yeah. No, and it’s such a—I think that’s such a beautiful message to anyone who is growing up with a little bit more in terms of anyone who’s grown up even—you know, everyone goes through so many difficult things, but I felt the same when I first went to India. I was around nine years old when I first went to India, and I remember we didn’t have a lot growing up, but we were still traveling to India.

We were in a car, and you look out the window and you see kids your age. I remember, you know, just seeing tons of kids my age on the streets and just, it was just—yeah, it just made me aware that there was a whole other world out there of experience that I only learned about later on.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: But I couldn’t agree with you more that when you feel like you’re a part, even a small part of the solution, the problem starts to feel more within reach.

SELENA GOMEZ: Right.

JAY SHETTY: And I feel like sometimes when we push the problem away or we try and keep it out of sight—

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: It just feels bigger and harder and more difficult.

Confronting Rather Than Ignoring

SELENA GOMEZ: Absolutely. Ignoring it is not fun. I’ve done that before. It just—you end up coping in ways that you never thought that you would and you end up feeling disappointed because you just, you don’t want to ever feel like you’re doing the wrong thing. I believe that everyone deep down knows what’s right and what’s wrong.

And when you’re at your rock bottom, if you will, because I believe that everybody does eventually have one of those moments—hopefully it’s just going to get lighter and lighter because you can start to attack it in a way where, “How do I approach this and figure out how to get myself out of this state of mind?” And I’ve learned how to do that in the past few years and I’m really grateful for it.

It’s a choice sometimes. But then I also hate when people say that because sometimes I genuinely wake up in a depressive state and I can’t get out of bed, but I allow myself to have that day and just focus on things that can make me feel better instead of pushing it away and saying, “No, it’s fine. I’m going to go out, I’m going to go do something. I’m going to go get my adrenaline up. I’m going to ignore it and ignore it and ignore it.” It doesn’t help at all.

Becoming Mindful of Fears

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And it’s—you just said there that everyone goes through a rock bottom moment. Like everyone goes through that in their life in different ways. How have you become more mindful of your fears and rock bottoms? Because I think often we ask people like, I look at your life and I think you’ve gone through so many difficult things and, you know, how do you deal with fears now? Because we all still have fears, we all still have worries, but I feel like you’ve found a way to become mindful of those things and become a bit more prepared for them.

SELENA GOMEZ: Well, thank you. I think maybe you are seeing a good side of me because I have the hardest time doing it. I don’t know. My fears are relatively, you know, they’re quieter. Maybe I should say, you know, like, for example, this documentary coming out. I am still nervous. I’m nervous for the reaction, even though I know that I have good intentions behind it.

I think that I just have to understand that my fears are only going to continue to show me what I’m capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I’m gaining more strength, I’m gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep doing that. And I just hope to get better, hope to get smarter. I hope to become stronger and be a great person.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, that’s—I mean, that’s a phenomenal answer. And it’s—yeah. I don’t think I’m seeing the—I don’t think I see a good side of you, Selena. I think I’m—

SELENA GOMEZ: I’m like, what do you guess, though?

JAY SHETTY: I think, you know, I don’t think it’s a good side, because I don’t believe you have a bad side.

SELENA GOMEZ: And—

Seeing Someone’s True Essence

JAY SHETTY: But I think it’s a—it’s your truth that we’re seeing. You know, it’s the essence of us that I’m trying to see in you and myself, in anyone around me, anyone I meet, whoever you bump into. It’s like when you see someone’s essence. That essence is pure and is genuine. It is strong and powerful and capable, and it’s the—everything else is not a side of us. It’s just stuff that covers us up.

SELENA GOMEZ: Right.

JAY SHETTY: Right. Like, doesn’t it feel that way?

SELENA GOMEZ: You’re absolutely right.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Like, I feel like I don’t have a—you know, I don’t have a side of me that I don’t like. I have stuff that’s covering over who I really am.

SELENA GOMEZ: Exactly. And it’s how to—how do you navigate controlling those things and taking control of yourself?

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Yeah. And I love what you just said about how confronting your fears is what gives you a sense of confidence and strength. Because when you get through something tough, it does.

SELENA GOMEZ: It feels incredible. I mean, walking through all of those moments that I’m, you know, sharing with everybody else. It is really great. I mean, it’s so sad to watch, but I would not be who I am. Of course, it’s such a cliché if it wasn’t for that, but facing your fears and tackling them, it’s the only way to get through them, I feel.

The Role of Intention

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. You said intention is so important there. And I think that anyone who’s in the public eye, sometimes all you have is your intention because you can’t control anything else.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: What role has intention played in your life? And then with this work more clearly, what is your intention for everyone who’s going to watch it? Like, what is your hope and wish for the different people that will see it? But first of all, what role has intention played in your life, especially as things have continued to grow?

Finding Purpose Beyond Perfection

SELENA GOMEZ: You know, I think maybe in the past five years, I felt like projects I was a part of, even endorsements, something like that. The intention behind me being a part of anything needed to be good. If I did, if I got a lot of money, I’m just being super transparent from doing this line for a T-shirt, and I’m just making this up. There’s a huge part of me that actually feels uncomfortable with the whole idea, and that’s just me.

I have to think, okay, this is, thank you. But I need to figure out how this is also not going to be just about me. It’s going to be about everyone that’s involved in this. How can I turn it into, hey, we’re going to do some percentages to this, and this is how we’re going to do the deal. I then feel more comfortable stepping into a situation and accepting it.

But I’ve never based my decisions on what will get me to the top quicker, what will make me number one, what will I break records. All of those things to me are just bonuses. They’re just great. If it happens, it happens that way. But that’s never been my intention. And some people in my position would think that’s kind of stupid. You know, it’s the whole point of doing it is to break these records, to do all that stuff.

But for me, and I think the reason why I am who I am is because just enough is what I am. I think that I just want to be enough. And that doesn’t have to be me killing myself trying to be number one at something or striving to be number one for something. It’s exhausting.

JAY SHETTY: How do you define being just enough now? What has that evolved? And I’m sure it will change.

SELENA GOMEZ: I’m sure it will grow.

JAY SHETTY: But right now, what is that?

SELENA GOMEZ: I feel, you know, I feel open. I feel ready for relationships and change. I will be shooting season three, so I’ll be in New York for quite a bit, and I can’t wait to see what will happen. And all the people I’ll meet and all the people I get to spend time with again, like Steve and Marty. And it’ll be fun.

A Special Guest Joins the Conversation

JAY SHETTY: Well, Selena, this has been such a beautiful conversation, and the good thing is we don’t have to end it here, but we get to invite a very special guest who’s joining us today. A very special gift for my audience here and our community and everyone who’s listening and watching. We get to have your mom on the show, which is amazing.

SELENA GOMEZ: Really fun.

JAY SHETTY: So I am so excited about this because to be able to talk to you both about the incredible work you’re doing together, her incredible lessons that she shared with you over time that you spoke about so beautifully today. And I got to talk to her before we started recording as well, and just hearing about how innovative and creative she is. I mean, it’s amazing. So if you’re okay with that, I’d love to bring out your mom, please. Mandy, over in a second. So we will go and grab her.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: Amazing.

Mandy, are you there? So we’re so excited to have you here, Mandy. This is amazing. This is really special. When I heard that I was going to have this opportunity, I think it’s always interesting hearing about someone’s journey through someone else’s lens, especially your mom. Who else in the world? And now my mom’s going to be upset that I haven’t had her on the platform.

SELENA GOMEZ: You haven’t had your mom? I haven’t.

JAY SHETTY: So now I feel the pressure.

MANDY TEEFEY: I’ll have her on. Make my podcast. I’ll just make one and have her on there.

JAY SHETTY: I love it. But I was going to say, you know, it was just so beautiful in the documentary, and even just now, hearing what Selena had to say about the amazing impact you’ve had on her, hearing about you going to the soup kitchens when Selena was younger in the documentary, as I said before, hearing about how you always encourage her to learn about things that scared her and that would help her.

I mean, these are really, I hope you feel extremely proud of this incredible human being and just, you know, from an outsider’s point of view, just how incredible it is to see someone sharing their truth with so much bravery, so much courage, and impacting the lives and saving the lives of millions of people across the world. And I’m sure you feel a big part of that.

Motherhood at Sixteen

MANDY TEEFEY: I mean, honestly, I always hope to be a role model, as in the sense that I was honest about everything with her and who I was as a person. Because I feel like sometimes if parents project a perfection, then their kids feel like they have to live up to that or achieve more. And I just wanted her to always know, I’m a person. I’m going to mess up. And I was 16, so I was even more of a lost person. So I’m kind of surprised she came out as great as she did, to be honest.

But yes, I’m very proud of her. And, you know, I played a little role in it. And then she’s navigated herself into a wonderful adult. And there’s been ups and downs, but it’s just been, it’s been an honor to be her mother.

JAY SHETTY: Well, what does that feel like? I mean, that’s a whole other experience. Having a child at 16. I mean, that’s a very, you know, challenging, stressful thing for yourself to go through.

MANDY TEEFEY: You’re obviously not mentally in a space to be raising a child, because you are a child, and you’re trying to figure out who you are. And even in some of my really hard times, I feel Selena came into this world at the perfect time because I was really lost myself, and I wasn’t going down the right path.

And then when I found I was pregnant, I was like, oh, I have someone who’s going to, I’m responsible for, and they’re going to look up to me for guidance. And even at a young age, that hit me, and I’m thankful that that hit me and that I did allow that pressure to make sure that I was trying to do everything right for her.

But that was a moment that when you’re 16, in that phase, you’re trying to figure out your path in life. And I think I kind of lost a little path of my life because I had something more important to take over. And I think that the delayed adolescence is something that I felt like even now, I still feel like I’m a little bit youthful. Even though I’m creaking and popping when I walk, I still sometimes feel like I have a little bit more adolescence in me and still things to learn.

And so as a teen, it was really challenging, and it was really one of those beautiful vortexes of being young and being able to keep up with a child and having that energy. So I was able to go to school. I went to a conservatory after. So I would take her to school, and when she started kindergarten, and then I would go to school, and then I would go to work, and then I come home and do her homework and put her to bed. Then do my homework and do it all over.

And I think about that now and I’m like, no way, no way. I’m like, I have a hard time getting up for my little one now. So it was like I was way too young then. I’m like way too old now.

JAY SHETTY: No, but you know what I mean.

MANDY TEEFEY: I was just like, where was the sweet spot? I just kind of skimmed by it and, you know, accepted the challenge.

JAY SHETTY: That’s incredible. Moms are amazing. Moms do it. Moms across the world, my mom included, just unbelievable resilience, unbelievable tolerance. You know that, I mean, that sounds like such an incredible journey. And you know, as you were telling me earlier, you haven’t yet managed to watch the documentary.

MANDY TEEFEY: Right.

JAY SHETTY: You’ve seen parts, but you haven’t been able to bring yourself to actually watch it. Tell us about what that feels like and how hard that is.

The Difficulty of Reliving Pain

MANDY TEEFEY: Well, first everyone’s telling me how fabulous it is. So it’s making me more and more eager to kind of put that guard down. But the reason why is because we lived some of that together. We went through that and we found healing and we’ve moved past some of it.

And even if it’s something that she went through and I didn’t know she went through it, as a mother, it’s going to affect me. It’s going to hurt my stomach. It’s going to put me in that mindset and I’m going to wish I could go and protect her. And she, you know, she was amazing and came through so much that I already feel like I protect you a lot.

And I was like, maybe I could just get through the holidays to not where I’m going up to her all the time going, I’m sorry, I didn’t, no. You know, because mothers do. You want to take away your kids’ pain, you don’t want them to have to experience that. Even though that is part of developing who they’re going to be. And, you know, who we all are is our pain and our suffering and our growth.

So it’s like I either, I’m going to have to be in that mood where it’s that time where I’m just like, I’m not getting out of bed today and I already know I’m going to be a little funky and then watch it and then just be alone and kind of cry and then call her and tell her I’m sorry that I wasn’t there in that moment. But you know, you just can’t helicopter parent so it just feels like her first breakup she ever had. I cried.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah. I was like, oh, they’re both hurting.

MANDY TEEFEY: They’re both hurting. These poor kids. I wish I could take their pain. Our date was chaperone to the movies.

SELENA GOMEZ: They didn’t make it.

JAY SHETTY: I love it. A mom’s heart, though. That’s a mom’s heart. Unless you’re a mom, you can’t, you don’t, you know, it’s hard to fully understand.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: Just everything you just said there of, wow, we’ve already lived through that. We’ve healed through that. To revisit that again, that’s painful to feel a sense of guilt that I wasn’t there for someone in a certain way. I didn’t know what they were going through. That carries a certain guilt. I mean, Selena, hearing that from your mom, she hasn’t been able to watch it because of all of this. How does that feel?

SELENA GOMEZ: Well, it’s not far off. I’ve only seen it twice.

JAY SHETTY: Wow.

SELENA GOMEZ: And I’ve premiered it a few times for people, and I’ve stepped away from watching it. I think I relate to my mom because some of those moments were really hard. And it’s not so much, if you don’t mind me saying this, it’s not you not being there. It was me not letting you be there. That was the hardest part.

And it was also not letting most of my people, my family in because I was in so much pain and I was walking through all these things. And in a way, I am glad that I walked through some of it alone because it made me who I am. But at the same time, it breaks my heart to know that I had to walk through that when I didn’t need to do it alone. So it’s very much, I relate to her. I understand why she feels that way for sure, and I get it.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. It’s wonderful hearing both your perspectives on it, because I think it, again, just you being here, Mandy, and I’m so grateful that you genuinely are here, because it just grounds this back into we’re not watching a TV show.

MANDY TEEFEY: Right.

JAY SHETTY: I think Alec did such a great job with it because I, even though I’m not Selena’s mother, it’s like, I can feel what you’re saying through the way the story’s told. But I think often when we watch things like this, we’re like, oh, yeah, that’s a TV show. It’s not someone’s life. And then when I’m sitting all of a sudden with you, I’m like, oh, no, no, this is real life. This is someone’s actual life and emotions and that, you know, having your voice in this conversation is so useful for that.

Opening Up About Fear and Vulnerability

MANDY TEEFEY: Well, I mean, I look at, like, kind of go, when we’re going to the premiere last night, I had a moment before where I was crying. I’m like, I’m going to need to cry and just get it over with. Even though I was just there to support her and I didn’t watch the film, the power and the fear, which I always call fear, the false existence appearing real.

And so, like, the fear is like, everyone is seeing you in your darkest moment and that it’s out there for the world to judge, and they will judge it however they will. Because even, you know, again, not seeing the documentary, I hear it’s very real and raw and honest and open to do something like that.

For me, I cry out of fear of, like, how you were feeling and, like, how I could protect you. And then I was like, I know that the little bit I did in the interview, I was down a week afterwards because it did put me back in that place, even though we weren’t there. And I blacked out the minute, you know, Alex said, action. And he was so nice about it. And my lovely friend, dear friend Emily, who does my hair and makeup, she was like—

JAY SHETTY: She was like, they’re going.

MANDY TEEFEY: She’s all crying. And she’s like, I didn’t know. I’m like, well, now everyone’s going to know. And there’s something beautiful to that because you’re exposing a lot, and that can be fearful, but you’re also giving a lot, if that’s how you look at it. And so I think it can make those dark moments really beautiful.

The Mission Behind Wondermind

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think that’s something you, as a family seem to have definitely embodied. The idea of using your pain to serve others, figuring out a way to make sure that these stories are not just told in silos, but they help other people feel connected.

And, you know, with what you’re doing with Wondermind, like, tell us a bit about the mission behind why you founded that and why you brought that to life. Because I feel it comes from the same place of, like, we are going through these things personally, but we also know this is a collective global challenge, and so we want to be a part of supporting those communities.

MANDY TEEFEY: When I was really young and I was about seven years old, I did have my first and only suicide attempt, however you say it, and it didn’t happen. Seven years old. And I think that traces back the time of always not feeling like I—like nothing around me made sense in my world. And it was just like I felt like I was and, you know, nothing bad was happening. It’s just like, this seems wrong to me. This seems wrong to me. I seem wrong. Like, how do I fix this?

But from that moment, I’ve always carried, I think, that moment in my life in my mind of like, not wanting anyone to ever feel that way. Which is what led us to 13 Reasons Why and some of her fans opening up to us. When I read that, I knew that needed to be a conversational piece. And from the response of what it did and opening those conversations, it inspired me to do more. But it was like, about the timing of what we wanted to do and how we’re going to use it.

And so collaborating and figuring out what’s missing out there as a support system was the ecosystem that we’re, you know, planning and working tirelessly to create where all of it is cohesive and you have one place to go to see that, you know, we actually target it. Really a filter of feelings. So everybody has feelings that might not be a diagnosed medical condition, but also, how can we put out content every day that, you know, keeps it light, but keeps it real and keeps it open for conversation and build a community where everyone will feel safe and not ashamed of, like, a feeling that they’re having and not ashamed.

I heard you guys talking about perfection. It’s like, I don’t like to pretend there is perfection. You know, I think perfection kind of puts a little bit of pressure whenever you can just be like, just be. And like—so I, you know, I’m not a big social media fan, but definitely go to Wondermind where we share positive messages. But I think what, you know, inspired me was creating this for everyone and content for people to have access to that can’t afford to get treatment or don’t need treatment, but they need someone to say, hey, check this out, you know, so it’s really for everybody.

Learning About Each Other’s Stories

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your personal experience, though, because I can imagine that, you know, the fact that you’ve held that close to you for this long and now that’s coming out in this beautiful way, but when you’re holding on to it, it doesn’t feel that beautiful always. I mean, Selena, how old were you when you first learned about your mom?

SELENA GOMEZ: I don’t think—and this is probably fair enough to say, like, she never really hid a lot of stuff when I was younger. I was never aware that we didn’t have enough. I was never—she did such a great job of—I feel weird talking about you, and you’re right here. But you did, mama. You did of being—

MANDY TEEFEY: Who’s this woman you speak of?

SELENA GOMEZ: Of, like, explaining situations to me that we would be in. And I feel around 18, I kind of started to realize more of her story, and obviously it broke my heart, and there are things that I never knew were going on. And she did such a great job of just letting me have a really great childhood.

And then once I realized we could be open and honest with each other, that’s kind of how Wondermind started as well. We really, you know, ended up working together on an interview, and we shared such interests with, you know, the person that was interviewing with us, and we thought, hey, this is something we could probably do together. And it happened that way. And it’s been really fun.

MANDY TEEFEY: I do want to—I know this is like a love fest, but, like, I do want to—there’s a moment that, like, you touched me during that time that I don’t even know if you remember. I remember I was doing that. Going to school, going to work, trying to get her out of the neighborhood I grew up in and try to give her a better life. And this was pre her doing anything besides directing films with kids on the street. But she wasn’t doing anything professionally.

I was sitting in front of a mirror and I was trying to get ready, and I just started crying. I was crying. And she came up behind me, and she was so young, and she, like, started playing with my hair and she’s like, “What’s wrong?” And I said, “I just don’t know why I’m doing what I’m doing.” And she goes, “You’ll figure it out. Just keep going.”

And it was like I was like, she’s already smarter than me. So, yeah, it’s like, it was like a really good, like, strong moment. Like, you don’t ever want to—you know, I think being vulnerable in front of her allows, you know, the vulnerability to, you know, be welcomed.

Navigating Parenthood Through Pain

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that’s so true. As we’re growing up, it’s like we often look at our parents as perfect unless they let us in or by the time you figure out that they’re not. And it’s interesting that you’re saying that at least you felt you were just always open and honest with what you were going through and with your own challenges and your own struggles.

When you’re going through your own stuff and you’re watching your child go through their stuff, what’s going through a mother’s mind in that situation? How are you dealing with your own stresses and pains and trying to be there? And often, as Selena said, and you said children don’t want their parents involved at a certain time. Right. I can relate to that completely, I think. You know, I listened to everything my parents said up until I was 13 years old. And then from like 13 to 25, I didn’t want to hear from them. And then after 25, I was like, oh, you guys were the best. You’re right about everything. And you go through that journey.

So, you know, when your child doesn’t want your help, when your child is not allowing you in, like, what goes through a parent’s mind, especially when they’re going through their own work themselves?

MANDY TEEFEY: I just needed more therapy and a feeling. And you feel, because I want to use this term lightly, like, you feel like you failed in some capacity. So then you’re like, I know. I took that opportunity to try to see maybe where were the missteps I took as a parent. Was I too open with her? Was I too liberal with her? Or, you know, should I not let her do Barney? You know, like, it’s just all these decisions that, you know, you make, you would just reflect on.

And I think as parents, we have this capacity to decompartmentalize your feelings and then prioritizing everyone else’s. Like I was telling you earlier when we were talking, it was, it’s easier to bury your stuff and then kind of focus, which then becomes unhealthy for the receiving party and for yourself because you’re not taking care of yourself.

So I was—I went through it a lot of days, didn’t get out of bed. There was just, like a lot of crying, a lot of therapy. And I had a therapist because I also—I had a miscarriage during the madness. And, you know, I had this therapist who gave me the best advice ever. She’s like, “Just, I need you to leave your house once a day and go. Go to the movies, buy a ticket. I don’t care if you watch it. But every day you need receipts that you left your house.”

And so I would, like, walk through the mall just like, crying, being lost, and, you know, not knowing what to do. And I would buy stuff, and I’d have to go and take it to her in each session. And I didn’t—I didn’t even ask for the purpose. I was like, she’s just trying to get me to get out of the house. And then I realized the whole—like, after about six weeks of doing that, I started feeling more comfortable with being even more vulnerable because I’m crying and I know the world’s going to be okay and nobody’s judging me.

People are asking me, “Hey, are you okay?” That kind of thing. And, you know, I was like, no. And then, you know, you just keep walking. But, like, that judgment that everybody’s afraid of, it showed me that, you know, because I was mad that I failed as a mother. And this is in my eyes, not like you—you know, like I felt as Selena’s mother. And then I also—my body hurt my other baby. So I was, like, angry at myself completely.

And I needed to see that. Oh, the world’s alive and there is forgiveness, and I can still find happiness for myself because I was just, like, being a mom was something. And the only thing I really knew to do since the age of 15. So when that’s gone, you’re just like, oh, I’m supposed to have hobbies that don’t tell my child. I’m supposed to do things, you know?

So it was a lot of growing, you know, and it’s hard when you’re in it, but when you get out of it, it’s fantastic. It really is. It’s just—you feel lighter and you feel, like, more hopeful, you know, and that then when you have that next opportunity or that next, you know, downtrodden moment, you know, you’re going to get out of it. It’s like, all right, I just got to get through this. Just got to figure it out, got to vibe through it, and it will pass.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

MANDY TEEFEY: So I think—yeah, you were talking about rock bottom a little bit earlier.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

MANDY TEEFEY: Definitely hitting rock bottom. It does. It feels like you’re breaking through.

Healing Parent-Child Relationships

JAY SHETTY: What’s really refreshing, hearing both of you together is just—I feel like this is going to heal a lot of parent-children relationships. Like, listening to you both today. Because I’m just thinking so often we think our thoughts to ourselves, and we never share them with the people that those thoughts are about.

So, you know, I’m sure there’s so many children out there who—their thoughts are like, oh, I wish my parents did this better and my parents could have done this. And those are valid thoughts. And then there’s parents out there at the same time having the same thought of like, I wish I didn’t do that to them. And I wish, you know, and often we just never find out. We never know because we don’t get to have these open, honest dialogues. And so I really think this, on top of everything you both are doing, this is really going to inspire a lot of parents and kids.

SELENA GOMEZ: Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, it’s because even listening to you, I’m just thinking of my parents and I’m thinking of my friend’s parents and I’m thinking there, everyone needs to be able to open their heart because somewhere everyone’s painting themselves the villain and someone’s painting themselves as the person who messed up and got everything wrong.

And in our head we’re thinking, oh, they got away with it. Or, you know, they don’t. They’re not aware of it. So I find, I mean, did you—were you always open to therapy and always open to this self work? Was that a part of who you were as well? Always. And that was—or was that something you kind of turned to at a certain point?

MANDY TEEFEY: Well, I will tell you a haunting little secret that when I was really young in junior high, I wanted to be a criminal psychologist. So that’s why I always say that she’s making fun of me in murders. Yes, that was. I am that person. But I was already reading on serial killers at that age because I was fascinated with the mind.

And I didn’t come from, you know, an environment where therapy was even talked about. But I just, at a certain age, I really felt super depressed. And so I had to go out and explore it myself and go through tons of doctors. And, you know, you would say one thing and it was just like they go, “Hey, are you seeing things?” I’m like, “I saw a black butterfly the other day.” And they go, “Oh, so you’re hallucinating.” I’m like, “Am I?” So I had to go—and I wasn’t, but it was a real black butterfly.

So I had to learn how to understand myself and my mind on my own. And finally I also, I did, I went away to a facility and was the first time I got to really spend all that time—best 28 days that I spent, you know, on myself. And yeah, you just have to kind of build that relationship with your mind.

And I think people are so afraid of being honest with themselves, because then they have to face it. But what helped me is I realized, like, you know, in this relationship, I was parenting her the way I needed to be parented, not what she was needing. And that is how I feel I made my contribution to healing this relationship was like, oh, you pull back. I need to know her and her needs. Not be the mama bear, even though I still haven’t lost that completely.

But, like, you know, sometimes I just need to listen and not fix it. And so that was the biggest thing. I think I really went on a little tailspin there, but that was the biggest thing that I learned through that whole time that we were separated. It was seeing who I was and how other people see me.

And I do that every day. I’ll say something, I’m like, okay, how did that come off to someone else? Because I have ADHD, so I’m quick to spurt out whatever’s in my brain. And I’m like, they really didn’t need to know that. But it’s out there in the world.

The Power of Self-Reflection and Self-Awareness

JAY SHETTY: The self work in this room is amazing. The amount of self reflection and self awareness in this room is really strong. This is—yeah, this is very powerful stuff. No, and you did not get lost on a tangent at all. I think everything you just shared with us, even you just coming to that conclusion of knowing that you’re parenting someone that you deeply love in a way that you wanted to be parented, I think that is at the core of so much of how we all live.

Yeah, we’re all loving people the way we wish we were loved, and we’re all hurting people the way we wish we weren’t hurt. And it’s so—it’s just fascinating when we finally, you know, look beneath the surface and uncover why it’s all there and where it is and to do that together and separately.

I love this idea that there were times when you had to do this at a distance from each other as well. I think that’s such a healthy message to be out there as well, in the world. I think we’re often all trying to solve all our issues in the same place.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah, definitely. I think there are moments, even, you know, even in friendships, where it wasn’t necessary for me to take a step back and figure out what is serving me, what’s not serving me, what makes me happy, what’s challenging me, what’s helping me move forward versus what’s not. I think it’s really important.

JAY SHETTY: I think when we’re looking from the outside in, we limit people to certain experiences. We remember them for certain people. We expect them to be with people that they’re meant to be around the way families are meant to be. Like, there’s always “meant to be.” And then it’s like, well, no, in reality, there’s space, there’s distance, there’s reflection, there’s the need for all of these things.

With the work that you talk about earlier with me as well, in terms of how you now taking these messages on screen, which you’re sharing, which I know is such a big part of the work. And I feel so excited by that. Like, that fills me with the greatest amount of joy, knowing that we’re going to see better representation of mental health on screen. I think that’s huge.

Where did you start to realize that from 13 Reasons Why, as we spoke about earlier, where did you start to realize that was so important for people to see that representation on screen?

Creating Better Mental Health Representation in Media

MANDY TEEFEY: Well, I think it comes back to not wanting people to feel like I did at 7 years old. It’s like, I’m so open with, you know, “Oh, I’m bipolar,” or that I have ADHD. You know, I was misdiagnosed for a while. So I was always so open with it. And, you know, even in a town where they’re so accepting in certain capacities, it’s still like, “Well, she’s not stable.”

And I even would joke and go, “Yeah, I’m crazy. I’m crazy. I’m crazy.” And I was not supporting myself in that, and I didn’t want anybody to feel that way. So, you know, during 13 Reasons Why, we worked tirelessly, the entire team, to make sure we were executing the whole point of it in that, you know, we’re losing teens every day to suicide, and it’s horrible and unnecessary.

And, you know, how do we—how can we as adults? And that’s why it was so important, I think, for me and Selena to go out and talk about it so parents would watch it together, you know. And once that got the reaction it got, you know, I heard different opinions, and I wanted to hear everyone whether they thought it was a bad idea, a great idea, it touched them, it offended them. I really listen to everything and all the data.

And I’ve always been someone who enjoyed storytelling, and so I like to tell stories. And if I can, you know, show—and like I was telling you earlier, I like using Silver Linings Playbook because they’re bipolar, but they’re having a life, they’re having a relationship. And as it may come with challenges, every relationship comes with challenges. It’s not just a mental issue that someone has that causes those challenges.

We’re all people, and if we just learn to understand each other, there’ll be less fear of it and then people will get more treatment and they’ll just be more happiness. And I know sometimes I feel like I’m being like, “The world’s going to be happy,” you know, kind of like that. But, you know, and again, my adolescent—that’s still there.

But that’s what inspires me is to—I scared off people by talking about myself in a negative way and by, you know, not sharing enough. So it’s like—or sharing too much. So then it’s navigating that and, you know, I mentioned One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest and Girl, Interrupted—favorite films, love them. But that’s not the reality Selena or I live in every day.

You know, I have been in a facility, but it was not like what’s being portrayed. It was a beautiful experience and made me a better person for it. So it’s just like media loves to, you know, tell all of the bad stuff. It’s like we could use it as educational without preaching.

And so let’s just tell stories of real people dealing with mental health issues in different capacities and show that you can—that you’re all right, you’re going to make it. It’s like, and you just need to give yourself that permission. And then once you give yourself that permission, you’re going to come out a happier person. I embrace my ADHD. I really do.

SELENA GOMEZ: We have a lot of fun together.

Understanding Growth as a Non-Linear Journey

JAY SHETTY: Well, I think this was painting a beautiful picture of just how we always want growth to be this perfect line. You know, we expect growth in families individually to just look like, “Oh, we’re just all growing at the same time. And isn’t this beautiful?” And it’s like, well, no, growth is not that way.

And growth is being patient when my daughter wants to grow this way and I’m trying to figure this out or I’m going to be patient while my mom pivots and shifts. And that’s what growth is. Growth is being patient with each other. And growth is holding space and being okay when we’re not being the nicest people to each other. There’s so much more to growth.

And so I want to thank you both for displaying that and sharing that with us today. Because it’s—yeah, it’s special seeing it from this perspective, for sure. Rather than either or. We end every On Purpose episode with a final five, which I’m going to ask to both of you.

SELENA GOMEZ: Okay.

JAY SHETTY: So you’ll do one question at a time each.

SELENA GOMEZ: Okay.

JAY SHETTY: And these are one word to one sentence maximum. They are not questions like “What’s your favorite color?” They’re all thoughtful questions, as you would expect. Okay, so question number one is, what is the best advice you’ve ever received or heard when it comes to mental health?

Final Five: Best and Worst Mental Health Advice

SELENA GOMEZ: I’m sure it’s in a Brené Brown book.

MANDY TEEFEY: I’m feeling it right on my wrist.

SELENA GOMEZ: I think the best advice that had been given is probably what I have thoroughly said throughout my documentary and speaking with you is learning how to make it a part of your life. That’s why I say make it your friend, because I think you have to understand why.

And sometimes you may not always know why, but if you can understand that it’s a feeling, like my mom said, where maybe this will pass and maybe you just got to go through it and you have to have the day in bed crying. You have to do those things in order to figure out what it is that’s going to set you free from it. Maybe that would be my advice.

JAY SHETTY: Make it a practice. Yeah.

MANDY TEEFEY: I think mine was “take your time.” That was what I was told when I went to—

JAY SHETTY: That’s freeing.

MANDY TEEFEY: Take your time.

SELENA GOMEZ: It’s really good.

JAY SHETTY: What’s the second question. What’s some of the worst advice you’ve ever heard or received when it comes to mental health?

MANDY TEEFEY: That it’s all in my head and I can just control it. Like, “Stop having bad thoughts.” Yeah.

SELENA GOMEZ: I was going to say somewhere along the lines of “You’re fine.” I mean, yeah. I had someone say to me, literally, “You’re so dramatic. You make up everything,” you know? And that was so hurtful.

MANDY TEEFEY: The worst. I found the worst—”Calm down.” It’s like, does that ever work?

Defining Purpose

JAY SHETTY: Good answers. All right, question number three. How would you both define your individually, your current purpose in life?

SELENA GOMEZ: I fully feel that I am exactly where I’m meant to be. I am meant to share my story. And in this season of my life, I want to be loved the way I love people. I want to give the way people have so generously given to me. And I want to continue to work on becoming a better and a happier person every day.

JAY SHETTY: It’s a beautiful purpose.

MANDY TEEFEY: So now I want to give powerful.

SELENA GOMEZ: Wow.

Final Five Questions

JAY SHETTY: This is really beautiful answers. Question number four. What’s something you used to value that you don’t value that much anymore?

SELENA GOMEZ: Oh, people’s opinions.

JAY SHETTY: Yes, I agree.

SELENA GOMEZ: It’s so exhausting. I would say it is nice to hear great things, but I accept compliments in a manner where I can appreciate them, but I have to learn how to just know that I got to keep a straight head. I got to understand that everything is a gift and not to let things get to my head.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yeah. Because I always say if you accept all the compliments internally, then you’ll have to accept all the negative. So just be careful. Just, like, be selective with what you let in.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a beautiful quote. I can’t remember who said it, but it says, “Don’t let compliments get to your head and criticism get to your heart.”

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah, I love that.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yeah, I love that. That was very poetic with what I was trying.

JAY SHETTY: It’s been said for thousands of years. Thank you for just repeating it.

MANDY TEEFEY: No, no.

JAY SHETTY: But I think it’s such a beautiful.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yeah, it is.

JAY SHETTY: And, yeah. And I think that’s also when we’re mindful of giving compliments to others. I think something that I’ve learned is that I enjoy, and we’ve talked about this today, I really enjoy the art of learning to see someone’s essence. It’s something that I try and live by, because—and then when you want to compliment someone, it’s like, how do you give a compliment that isn’t empty flattery or that isn’t just surface level?

And I think when we get compliments like that, they don’t go to our head, they do go to our heart.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: You know, just—it’s different. So I hope that we can also learn to complement each other in more—

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: You know, beautiful and genuine ways. Fifth and final question. Question number five is, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

MANDY TEEFEY: Practicing forgiveness.

SELENA GOMEZ: Wow. I probably would say something super simple and cheesy, but treat others the way you want to be treated.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yeah. And then we throw in the forgiveness.

SELENA GOMEZ: Honestly, that’s the biggest thing.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yeah.

SELENA GOMEZ: Forgiveness.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yeah.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

MANDY TEEFEY: I say we campaign.

SELENA GOMEZ: All right, let’s do it, Mom.

JAY SHETTY: Forgiveness campaign.

SELENA GOMEZ: That’s right.

When Was the Last Time You Did Something for the First Time?

MANDY TEEFEY: Wait, can I ask you a question?

JAY SHETTY: Of course you can. Yeah.

SELENA GOMEZ: Okay.

MANDY TEEFEY: When is the last time you did something for the first time?

SELENA GOMEZ: Oh, wow. Where did that come from?

JAY SHETTY: Okay, when was the last time I’ve been practicing the most interesting answer that came to mind straight away, even though it was a couple of months ago now. I went trekking with gorillas in Rwanda.

SELENA GOMEZ: Wow.

JAY SHETTY: And it was—

MANDY TEEFEY: That is amazing.

JAY SHETTY: It was. Yeah, it was a few months ago, and it was the most incredible experience.

SELENA GOMEZ: That sounds, like, wild.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. So they’re mountain gorillas, and they’re not—you don’t—they don’t have any technology on them or, you know, they’re not treated a certain way. They’re not in a zoo, or they’re not trapped. You’re in their home, and you have to set out early in the morning to go and look for them. And the people that are doing these tours, they know where they usually are, so they take you in that direction.

MANDY TEEFEY: Oh, my God.

JAY SHETTY: And then you finally discover, like, this family of gorillas. And I thought I’d see one or two. I was very—I wasn’t skeptical, but I was kind of like, who knows, you know?

MANDY TEEFEY: Right.

JAY SHETTY: We saw 18 gorillas. Like a family, just like—

MANDY TEEFEY: Did they cuddle you?

JAY SHETTY: So, no. You know, I wish.

MANDY TEEFEY: That’s all I want to see is they being cuddled by a gorilla.

JAY SHETTY: They cuddle each other. Yeah, but they don’t—they—the guides tell us that the only thing you have to do is maintain your distance. You’re not allowed to try and touch them or their kids because they see that as violent.

The gorillas are just so peaceful and they’re so calm, and they have this sound that they make. This was my favorite part of the experience. So we were told by our guide that if you make this sound, it basically tells the gorillas, “We come in peace.” And so this sound is—so you have to make that sound. And the gorillas make it back to you. No. Or they’ll do it to you as they come closer, just to let you know, “Hey, we’re not trying to harm you. We’re just going to walk past you.”

MANDY TEEFEY: I love that.

JAY SHETTY: It was really special. So that was the most recent memory.

MANDY TEEFEY: Well, that’s a hell of a one.

SELENA GOMEZ: I know.

MANDY TEEFEY: I was like, forgiveness.

SELENA GOMEZ: Like.

MANDY TEEFEY: Yes.

SELENA GOMEZ: I was thinking.

MANDY TEEFEY: No, no. This is a time. That was beautiful. Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: It was really—it was really, truly special. It was—you know, it’s just being with another creature that—another form of life that is uninterested in you.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah. It’s—

JAY SHETTY: It’s very humbling. In a good way.

SELENA GOMEZ: Yeah.

MANDY TEEFEY: Wow.

JAY SHETTY: This form of life doesn’t even care that I exist. We’re, like, staring at it, taking pictures, and the gorilla’s just like, “Yeah, whatever.” That’s a good question. It’s a good question.

Closing Thoughts

Well, Selena, Amanda, you have both been so gracious with your time today. You’ve been so kind and generous with your energy, and this documentary is going to change so many lives, and it is going to shift the culture of how we share our pain in a way that truly, positively impacts the lives of people across the world. And so thank you both.

SELENA GOMEZ: We really appreciate it so much.

JAY SHETTY: Thank you for sharing your heart for years, for sharing your soul, and for taking the time to create something that’s truly going to be talked about for years and years to come.

SELENA GOMEZ: Oh, boy. Thanks. Thank you, Jay. You’re the best.

JAY SHETTY: And thank you for your friendship as well.

SELENA GOMEZ: Of course.

JAY SHETTY: Mandy, thank you for opening up so vulnerably with us today about your experiences, about, you know, all the gifts and the challenges that come with loving family and each other, and also for leading as part of this movement and everything you’re doing with Wondermind and trying to help people all across the world with mental health and wellness. Thank you so much for your commitment to that.

MANDY TEEFEY: No. And thank you. Thank you for everything. You do it. Yes. All together. We can make it happen.

JAY SHETTY: I love it.

MANDY TEEFEY: Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: Thank you both. Thank you so much.

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