Read the full transcript of American singer, songwriter, and actress Miley Cyrus’ interview on The Joe Rogan Experience #1531, September 2, 2020.
Brief Notes: Miley Cyrus joins Joe Rogan for a raw, in-depth conversation about fame, identity, and growing up in the spotlight. In this episode, she opens up about her vocal surgery, going sober, and how years of touring and partying changed her voice and her life. Miley also talks candidly about divorce, media narratives, mental health, and her ideas for realistic children’s books that address drugs, equality, and the tough realities of life.
Introduction
JOE ROGAN: Hello, Miley Cyrus.
MILEY CYRUS: Hello.
JOE ROGAN: How are you?
MILEY CYRUS: I’m good, Joe.
JOE ROGAN: Pleasure to meet you.
MILEY CYRUS: You also. I’m happy to be here.
JOE ROGAN: I’m happy to have you here. Thanks. You have a fantastic voice. Not just a singing voice, but your talking voice. Very unusual. It’s like, it makes you step back.
MILEY CYRUS: A little. I’ve actually recently, I was walking around in Boston, and I went to a museum, and this older man walked up to me, had no idea who I was. He was just enjoying the art also in the museum, and started talking to me forever about my voice. And then there was a college, some sort of trip to the museum, and then everybody started freaking out.
And it was so cool just to have someone stop me about my speaking voice, because that had never happened to me before, I think, because I was turned around and I had the mullet. So I could have been, you know, anybody. I could have been anyone.
JOE ROGAN: It’s a heavy voice.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s a heavy voice.
The Evolution of Her Voice
JOE ROGAN: You didn’t always have a heavy voice, though. My kids love Hannah Montana, by the way.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: So when I would watch, your voice was different.
MILEY CYRUS: It definitely changed. I actually kind of learned a lot about the voice and how our experiences affect our voice. I had a surgery in November on my voice. I had something called Reinke’s edema, which when my doctor told me about it, he said, “No one shy ever has this. This is for abuse of the voice. This is for people that talk way too f*ing much.” And usually this happens when you’re in your 60s or 70s.
JOE ROGAN: How do I not have that?
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t know. I don’t know. Mine, I think, honestly, really, I started touring, you know, at probably 12 or 13. And not only was I… the adrenaline that you have after a show, it’s not really the singing that affects your voice as much. It’s afterwards, you’re totally on. And then it’s really hard to get that sleep.
You stay up talking all later, they’re talking all night, turned into smoking all night. And now this is kind of where we’re at. We got some dirt on her. You know, the voice can be like a face. It collects wrinkles, and it tells a story. If you look at yourself and you go, “Oh, I didn’t have this until this trip. You know, I sat out in the sun or I partied too much or whatever,” your voice is the same thing.
JOE ROGAN: It collects dirt. It’s very distinctive.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. Yes. It gives me away. I mean, I’m pretty much one of the only chicks in LA with a mullet, so that gives me away also.
JOE ROGAN: Well, you’re not in the right neighborhood.
MILEY CYRUS: There’s plenty of… I know. I got to drive out to the desert, I guess.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Go out to Joshua Tree. Find the chicks that are tripping.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. With handmade tattoos.
MILEY CYRUS: I had a couple of those, too.
JOE ROGAN: But there’s something very distinctive about a voice you earned, you know.
Aging, Scars, and the Industry
MILEY CYRUS: It’s true. It’s kind of like, you know, when you see somebody… and I think, especially being a female in the industry, I think growing up and changing and kind of… that there is such a kind of stigma with aging. It’s a very kind of scary thing as a female in the industry.
And I thought about it a lot and thought about my voice. I actually had someone when I was doing an interview a couple months ago said, “You know, she sounds like she stayed up all night smoking too many darts.” And I said, “Well, I f*ing have.” And that’s just the truth. And if, you know, that was anyone else, you know, it’s kind of like you’re weathered or you’re aged or you’ve been through it.
And, you know, we’ll talk about it as we go. But over the last year, I noticed a really big change in my voice, kind of a heaviness to it, and I experienced some heavy things. And so I feel like it is a reflection. It is kind of a scar, in a sense. But also, just by having the surgery was kind of a gift also, because I was able to understand my instrument.
No one ever explained that to me. You know, I sat in a room with the piano and did scales and shit, but no one taught me about how do you have longevity? You know, you are in here with athletes all the time. And recovery days are the most important days. I didn’t get recovery days. That was not important for someone that was making so much capital for such a big corporation.
You know, the off days are days that money’s not coming in. And I definitely probably didn’t get the training that I needed to say, “Hey, you know what? I don’t want to do this till I’m 15.
JOE ROGAN: But it had to be really odd to be working that much and be a young girl.
Learning Balance the Hard Way
MILEY CYRUS: The balance it trained me to have is something that I don’t think you are going to get taught any other way besides jumping in the deep end of the pool and hoping you know how to swim. That’s the only way. There was no way I could have prepared for the amount of balance I would have to learn to kind of teeter.
Because, you know, at one point, again, it went from… it was school. Then it went from, you know, how much weed can I actually smoke and still play a teenage superstar on the Disney Channel? And then…
JOE ROGAN: And then what’s the answer to that question?
MILEY CYRUS: More than you would f*ing think. I remember one time when… and I don’t smoke anymore, and I’m sober.
JOE ROGAN: How long have you been sober?
Sobriety and Personal Choice
MILEY CYRUS: I’ve been sober since the… pretty much the vocal surgery kind of did it for me because I just learned so much about the effects, which, again, you’re just not taught. It’s not really the drinking. It’s staying up all night. You know, once you have your drink, you end up smoking.
And I kind of… I have a… I’ve become the face of a lot of things kind of against my will, I guess, from my opinions. When you’re someone in my position, your opinion becomes your identity. And it also becomes kind of almost like you kind of become this preacher. You become this… you know, they don’t really let you just always have your own opinion.
So I’ve decided to start telling people I live my own lifestyle. Alcohol was never my problem. There was other things that I end up, you know, I like to go up. So I now just avoid really drinking because I like to wake up at 110%. But it’s never really been my problem. And I could see myself having a drink of celebration in the future.
But I get so f*ing hungover now that I’m like, why would I celebrate with just feeling like a volcano’s erupted in my brain, you know? So it’s really just a personal preference, but it’s definitely not anything that I promote. I think it’s a lifestyle everyone should be… I think everyone should experiment. It’s a good time, and you learn a lot of things about yourself and the people around you.
But now I’m watching… I have younger siblings, and they’re going through that. And I don’t know how my mom did it with me, because it’s scary.
Teaching Kids the Truth
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, I don’t think… I think if we’re going to acknowledge the fact that all these things exist, cocaine exists, pills exist, marijuana exists, we should teach people how to do it right. Really? I mean, you’re leaving children… it’s the same thing with sex, right?
We leave children to their… the information that they’re going to get is from other kids. And if you’re learning about sex from another 14-year-old or you’re learning about coke from a 14-year-old, that’s not good. Someone… we play this game with children where we try to pretend that they live in a movie.
MILEY CYRUS: Alright, well, listen to this. It’s actually funny you bring this up because I had the idea this week, not that I really have time to do this in the near future, but I would like to, at some point in my life, I want to do my own children’s book series of realistic children’s stories.
Because I don’t like the idea that we teach them that this is Sunshine World and everyone walks on a rainbow and everyone’s equal. And you need to say, that’s not true. What are you going to do about it? That’s not true. What are you going to do about it?
And I think there’s a way to not terrify children of life. Even though I go in and out of periods where I think life is really overwhelmingly terrifying. And that’s coming from my position. And my position, I tell myself all the time, if you’re not enjoying this life, honey, you got it coming in the next one. Because I better f*ing love this life. It’s the best one. I couldn’t imagine being in a different body and having different experiences.
JOE ROGAN: It’s an awesome life. If you do it the right way.
Survival and Gratitude
MILEY CYRUS: It’s an awesome life. And I also, I didn’t hurt myself beyond repair in my experiences. I survived. And I don’t even mean heart still beating survival. I mean, I have a lot of people that love me around. I didn’t kick all the people that had my best interest at heart out.
That’s where you die, is you kick everyone that says, “Hey, are you okay?” You know, out. “No, of course I’m okay. You don’t trust me? Get the f* out.” And so now that I have people that I’ve had in my life, I feel that I have people in my life that I’ve known for 15, 20 years. And not many people in my position get to say that.
My parents are awesome. My dad’s loopy as hell, but I love him so much. He has no way of ever hearing this because my dad doesn’t have wifi or anything but a BlackBerry. So I can tell you what I got him for his birthday.
My dad has two BlackBerries, which equal an iPhone, which is not true, but that’s what he says. So for his birthday, he said that he wanted to see if he could go 365 days without eating pizza because he had never done it before. So my dad has now gone a year without having pizza.
And my dad loves bubble baths. He’s going to kill me for saying this, but his country ass loves bubble baths.
JOE ROGAN: That’s hilarious.
MILEY CYRUS: And so he loves to smoke his joint, eat his pizza and get a bubble bath. So he said that’s what I’m going to do for my birthday. So for his birthday, I’ve organized a five-foot pizza to be delivered to his farm so he can have all he can eat. And I’m the pizza delivery person on the box. I had someone draw it where it’s me with my tongue out and a mullet delivering the pizza.
And I got a bathtub on Craigslist and I put it… my dad has 500 acres, so I put it in the middle of the farm filled with bubble gum, just like my music video. And so my dad’s going to have a bubble gum bathtub and a five-foot pizza for his birthday.
JOE ROGAN: That’s adorable.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s next week.
JOE ROGAN: I like the fact that he has no wifi and no Internet.
MILEY CYRUS: No wifi, no Internet. Every now and then he’ll drive to my uncle’s house to FaceTime us every now and then.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, wow.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, wow.
JOE ROGAN: He has to make a drive to FaceTime.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s not far. All of us are just… my dad’s kept us a pebble throw away. For sure. We all live on property. We all live really close to each other.
JOE ROGAN: So if you did this thing, if you really decided to do children’s books, realistic children’s books, how would you do that? Would you get a ghost author and sort of come up with the ideas of what you were trying to get across to kids? You wish somebody told you.
Realistic Children’s Books and Talking About Drugs
MILEY CYRUS: I like that you mentioned that no one talks to us about drugs. I know this is going to be controversial to introduce drugs to kids. I think that there’s a way. And I have to think about it. Wayne Coyne is a good friend of mine and I did the Dead Pets record with him. Flaming Lips have been my favorite band since I was in fifth grade. And he’s obviously an amazing artist. And he just had his first child, year and a half years old. He’s 60. He just had a baby. They’re coming to visit me right now.
And I would have him do all the illustrations. So it stays in that kind of surrealist world. Because I think that’s what would get the kids to want to read this book, is that the illustrations are still surreal. And I like that about children’s books. But I do think that we do need to talk about equality, and I do think there needs to be diversity in children’s books.
And I think also we just need to talk about the fact. I was actually happy to talk to you today because I didn’t get to do therapy today because I would be with you, but it’s kind of the same thing. And I was talking to him, and I said, sometimes it scares me that I’m too tough. And I feel like I’m not jaded and I’m not cold, but I feel too tough. And he goes, well, I’m proud of that, because life is tough, and it’s not to get hard.
JOE ROGAN: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by you feel like you don’t like that you’re too tough?
Processing Divorce and Public Narratives
MILEY CYRUS: I feel that I worry sometimes that I can get over things easily. I don’t fall to the floor and crawl up in a ball the way that I used to. And I think that’s a part of me growing up.
When I recently just went through a very public divorce that f*ing sucked. What really sucked about it wasn’t the fact that me and someone that I loved realized that we don’t love each other the way that we used to anymore. That’s okay. I can accept that. I can’t accept the villainizing and the just all those stories that, it’s just amazing to me that the public kind of thinks that there’s no gap of time that they didn’t see that could possibly be what led to this.
It’s not one day you were happy on the carpet, and the next day you were making out with your friend in Italy. What the f*? Well, there was a lot of time in between that that you didn’t see. It didn’t go. I didn’t, you know.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, but you can’t rely on someone else’s narrative, right? Especially someone who doesn’t know you. You really shouldn’t even read what people write about.
MILEY CYRUS: Well, what’s crazy is my dad again. My dad’s been a real figure in my life. And my dad, when he got his Grammy nomination, he wore a, he went to the Grammys in a John 3:16 shirt, and he didn’t get the Grammy. And the next day, the New York Post, someone put, “Even God can’t save Billy Ray Cyrus and his career.”
And he was sitting next to Johnny Cash. They were going to something. I have a Johnny Cash tattoo that was handwritten to my dad from around that time. And he said, “What the hell?” Just like you say to me right now, you’re my Johnny Cash. He said, “What the hell are you doing reading that?” And my dad said, I just never really picked up the paper again. But again, my dad didn’t buy that paper. It was just kind of in your face.
JOE ROGAN: You should have thought that was funny.
MILEY CYRUS: He does now. Now he just says, well, whatever will get Johnny Cash to come and sit next to me and talk to me. Now he loves it. And it’s been really good to have him go before me. It’s kind of that buddy system. I think it’d be really scary if I would have been able to see that.
But to your point of I don’t click on this shit. It comes into my life by, if I walk by a magazine stand, which I like to walk on the street, and it says, “Miley’s on drugs and pregnant.” And then I think one of those things are true, but not the other. F* you for lying about me.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, but that’s all they have. I mean, when someone’s in the public eye and someone’s as prominent as you are, you become a way for them to access money, right? That’s all you are.
Real-Time Storytelling and Media
MILEY CYRUS: Clickbait advertisement. And I totally get it. It’s that unprogramming of. Also, I think what’s interesting, sitting here with you, is that all of this is kind of new. I mean, even just the idea of podcasts, what I used to do when it was promo time for a record, okay, so I’m 12 years old, and I’m printing physical copies of my album, so I have to write my f*ing music six months before you, actually.
So I just did Dolly’s new album for Christmas, and I had to record a Christmas song in July. It was the weirdest thing I’ve ever done in my life. But when you make physical copies, that’s what you do. And you’re telling a story from always being behind, especially when it comes to the media.
So now what I love about this, what I love doing a show like yours is, we talk about it right now, and people hear it right now. So you’re getting the real information. You’re not getting information from, all right, I shot a magazine cover. I did an interview. I was la la in love with my boyfriend. I mean, that literally happened when I did Vanity Fair. I flew there a week after I got married. By the time the damn thing was on the stands, I was divorced. It was old news. It was like, come on, so you’re really not able to tell your story in real time.
And that’s what I love about the new way that music is happening and streaming. And I love the idea that I threw up that Flaming Lips record I did on SoundCloud, and it was like, no one had to buy it or I sound 105. But it’s very exciting because I really hated always being behind myself.
And I think that’s what, now I can use my art as my kind of, I guess the way that I can talk to the press isn’t what bothers me. It’s kind of the public. And I got in this habit where when people would meet me, I guess I didn’t get in the habit, just became a thing that happened constantly was I’d meet someone and they go, “Man, you’re not as crazy as I thought you’d be.” And I’m like, thank you. I don’t know what you thought I’d be doing right now if you thought I’d be in Space Buns dropping acid or something. But people say that to me all the time, that I’m not as crazy as they thought I would be. And that’s just a weird thing to say to someone.
The Hannah Montana to Miley Cyrus Narrative
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, but the public image, what they sold of you, here you are, Hannah Montana, and then all of a sudden you’re this very sexual singer, and you’re doing all this crazy stuff and you’re on television shaking your ass, and everybody’s seeing that and like, “Oh, Miley Cyrus is out of control now.” She’s wild. So then that becomes the narrative, right.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s funny when people make the narrative, when you become in control that now you’re out of it. Yeah, that was always really interesting.
JOE ROGAN: Well, it’s also youth, right? Think about the marriage thing, right? You take, you say Vanity Fair, they write the article. You’re deeply in love by the time you’re already divorced.
MILEY CYRUS: Right.
JOE ROGAN: That’s so Hollywood.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: I mean, to them, that’s like, oh, we’ve seen this f*ing story before. Yeah, we know where this going. Also, you’re a child star.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, shit. We’ve seen this story before. And so you get stuck in that narrative too. Right. Because they want you to fall down the exact same path. They don’t want you to reinvent yourself.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes.
JOE ROGAN: Well, then they’ll spell it out for you. This is what she’s doing now. She’s on drugs and she’s pregnant.
The Power of Writing Things Down
MILEY CYRUS: I’ve had to, now, I don’t read those types of things, but I’ve had to unlearn that they’re not true. Because sometimes I write things. I write things down when I want something to get put into my head. Even if I’m going to have a hard conversation with somebody, usually I kind of write a little mini script for myself. So I kind of know where I, I don’t like going into something with no direction. Where do I want this to go? What are my goals? What do I want?
That’s what any of your athletes would do. It’s like, I know that I have that as an artist, that I want to have a long career. I have to do the things to be able to have that longevity. And so I would write down kind of an idea of where I’d want conversations to go, even with the people in my life, and what do I want out of them?
And I had to stop going, hey, just because they wrote that down. It’s true. Because something about writing it down gives a lot of power. I don’t like to write down things that I don’t mean. That’s why I don’t write songs that I hate. Because once you write it down, they are alive.
JOE ROGAN: So what you’re saying is that reading things that other people wrote about you made you think that those things were real. So, yeah, it f*ed with your own personal narrative.
Mental Health and Genetic History
MILEY CYRUS: Yes. Sometimes I’d be trying to prove something that I didn’t need to prove. All of a sudden, I’d be trying to prove that I’m not crazy when I knew I wasn’t crazy.
And, yeah, I just think also, I mean, when we’re talking about realistic children’s books, I think the stigma that kind of surrounds youth growing up, rebelling, and then craziness and then what’s the line between that and mental illness? And I do have some kind of genetic family history of alcohol. I mean, that totally gets erased when you’re a celebrity. It’s like, Hollywood did this to you. It’s like, no, dude, my great grandma was an alcoholic. My granddad was an alcoholic. My grandma’s an alcoholic, so I obviously had, it wasn’t Hollywood, it’s genetic.
JOE ROGAN: I think, for you, I mean, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with writing a book and writing a realistic children’s book, but I think you could do a lot of good by just making little YouTube videos. You make little YouTube videos, just talking and explaining, hey, this is what I did, and this is where I fed up. And this is why you shouldn’t do it this way. These are the drugs you got to be really careful about. These are drugs that are really dangerous. And look, if you want to have one drink. You want to have one drink, just have one fing drink.
MILEY CYRUS: If you can.
JOE ROGAN: If you can.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: If you want to, if you want to smoke weed, take a hit.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Don’t get crazy.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Figure this out. You can have a good experience on marijuana, or you could f* up your life and have a schizophrenic breakdown.
Marijuana and Mental Health
MILEY CYRUS: And that’s one thing that I felt when I was smoking weed. My mom, all the weed that I don’t smoke, she takes care of both my parents, so I have nothing against weed. My whole family’s a bunch of stoners. I just felt like when you’re talking about kind of some of the episodes that they can kind of bring on, I maybe have a little, some of those kind of tendencies already, and that’s.
JOE ROGAN: That’s something that people who love marijuana don’t like to talk about, and I’m pretty adamant about discussing that. Yeah, I know people that have lost their f*ing mind, particularly on edibles.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: I know some people that literally became schizophrenic.
MILEY CYRUS: And I really like looking at, I like looking at facts like that. And I don’t know, I do think that there are, I like information. I’m a real, I love to process new information. I love to receive new information. I love to go, how do you get your information?
JOE ROGAN: Are you a person who reads? Do you watch documentaries?
Early Therapy and Brain Health
MILEY CYRUS: I read, and I was going on a trip when I was maybe 17 years old, and I was walking to the airport, and I saw a book that said “Change Your Brain, Change Your Life” by Dr. Daniel Amen, who’s now been my therapist for 10 years. And I couldn’t get on this plane. I was having a full anxiety attack, was smoking a lot of weed.
JOE ROGAN: How old are you taking a lot of shrooms?
MILEY CYRUS: I was 17. And I started getting a little, yeah, started getting a little crazy, you know. Sometimes doing some things with, you know, causing some fights with my boyfriend that were unnecessary. They got heightened. I remember one time I wrecked my car into my gate and I said, “This is all your fault.” I was the one driving the car. How is this your fault? I did not have a great idea of reality at that time.
So I was leaving the country for the first time without my family. I was going to Costa Rica and I was walking through the airport and I saw this book, “Change Your Brain, Change Your Life.” I’m like, I want to change my life. Like where this is going and my brain is actually, I don’t like who I’m living with. The person upstairs is annoying the hell out of me.
So I got this book and it got me to get onto the plane. Now I had a few anxious breakdowns on that. When, you know, when you go to places like going in the middle of jungle, you take all those little planes and all of a sudden you’re on a four wheeler going to wherever you’re going. Every now and then I’d have to stop because I would get so light headed. Stabbing chest pains and all this.
And he said, drop weed, first of all, get rid of the weed, get rid of the psychedelics. And I also cut gluten from my diet from a little bit of a time so I could get an idea of like what’s my body on a natural level. And I started doing, you know, kind of blood work and I did some SPECT scans which he specializes in. So like actually looking at my brain because what I really like about the SPECT scan is, you know, you wouldn’t tell me I have a broken arm without looking at it. I could tell you, ow, it hurts. Blah, blah, blah.
JOE ROGAN: But like, what is a SPECT scan?
MILEY CYRUS: So a SPECT scan, we might have to look up exactly what it stands for because I don’t remember this, but basically it’s kind of like an X-ray and it kind of shows you almost like in those thermal type colors of the activity of your brain. There we go.
JOE ROGAN: Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, so I have one of these.
JOE ROGAN: Nuclear medicine study that evaluates blood flow and activity in the brain.
MILEY CYRUS: So that’s my Doctor Amen clinics. That’s his website right there. And so I have a couple of these.
JOE ROGAN: How’s your brain look?
MILEY CYRUS: You know what he says? This isn’t right. Surprisingly good for the abuse that it’s had. I guess I sorted my throat exactly. Of time. Okay. So the amount of activity, if we’re looking at like female and male brains, I mean, they’re totally lit up in different spots.
You know, actually, I think he’s even worked with some athletes of yours. He works a lot with football players because he says, you know, I’m almost like a football player for the life that I lead. I got to do everything else right. If you’re going to go and live under this amount of stress, which is pretty abnormal, it’s like you’re getting hit in the head in an abnormal amount of times. Then I got to do everything else right.
So I got to be pretty diligent about my supplements. I got to really care about the food that I eat. My mom always like, you guys are overthinking it. I’ve eaten Cheetos every single day. It’s true for the rest of my life. And I’m like, yeah, but you’re not like a, you know, you’re not a superstar that has to go on stage and do two hour shows. You know, my heart really needs to be in good condition. I need to be in good condition.
I can’t, by the way, my mom has crazy panic attacks. So, like, I can’t have any of that. My mom has had me slam, like, had them slam the brakes on an airplane to take off and made me drive home from Canada to Tennessee. I drove from Tennessee to Canada nine times because of her anxiety. I’ve driven from Nashville to California like four times because of her anxiety. So I don’t listen to my mom exactly.
My grandma was on a popcorn diet where she took a trash bag to the movie theater and filled it up with popcorn. And she’s like, “Don’t I look good?” I’m like, on the outside, it’s fine. On the inside, I’m worried. Meanwhile, she’s going to outlive all of us. So sometimes I worry about that.
But I think I am kind of like an athlete in the ways. Like, if I’m going to be doing this kind of abnormal type lifestyle, then I have to do everything else right. So my SPECT scan looks pretty good, but I like looking at my brain and knowing, okay, so this isn’t looking at me and going, there’s just something wrong with me. And I don’t know why. I had a head injury when I was, you know, two years old.
JOE ROGAN: What happened?
The Head Injury Story
MILEY CYRUS: It’s bad. My dad had me. This is really bad. But he can’t go to jail. I don’t think it’s long enough time away. He had me in a baby backpack and I was on a dirt bike with my dad and he was riding and a tree had fallen and he ducked and I didn’t and I hit my head on the tree.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, Jesus Christ.
MILEY CYRUS: It was bad. So that’s what’s wrong. Everyone’s asked me that for years.
JOE ROGAN: You know, that’s a common theme with wild people. Do you know that?
MILEY CYRUS: Yes.
JOE ROGAN: Sam Kinison got hit by a car when he was like a little kid. And his brother Bill said it completely changed his life. We have just like real same thing with Roseanne Barr. She got hit by a car when she was 15. Before that she was like mild mannered, really good at math. After she got hit by a car, she had to spend nine months at a mental institution. Couldn’t count anymore. And she became this wild lady who everybody knows as Roseanne.
MILEY CYRUS: Right? I mean, maybe I’m thankful for it. Maybe it, like, I don’t know, me into this identity or something.
JOE ROGAN: I think there’s something to it.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m not sure she knows that there’s something to that. Dr. Amen, we’ve talked about this a lot. So when I get really overwhelmed, I also have a tendency that if I know something stupid, I just got to try it to know that it’s stupid. Which makes it stupid because I already knew about it. Sometimes I’m like, is it better to know it’s dumb and do it or to not know it’s dumb and do it?
JOE ROGAN: Don’t you think part of that that’s a head injury? Well, maybe, but also it’s the column of your breaks. You know, the way you developed as a human being, being that famous at, you know, 12 years old doing stadiums.
MILEY CYRUS: But I do like, I like looking at my brain and going, okay, listen, like, someone cut my brakes right on my brain. And I have to take all the things Omega. I’ve been was vegan for a very long time, and I’ve had to introduce fish and omegas into my life because my brain wasn’t functioning properly.
JOE ROGAN: Don’t tell that to the vegans. They’ll come for you.
The Vegan Diet Debate
MILEY CYRUS: That’s, they’re going to come for me. But that’s okay. I’m used to people coming for me. And it’s going to be that I call them out. No, I listen. If I give homes, I have 22 animals on my farm in Nashville. I’ve got 22 in my house in Calabasas. Like, I’m doing what I need to do for the animals. Okay. But when it comes to my brain, you’re not vegan.
JOE ROGAN: No, you can’t be vegan. Living this kind of and being this quick.
MILEY CYRUS: But sure you can. Some people can. I could not because it was really giving. I was having a lot.
JOE ROGAN: What did you do for your brain?
MILEY CYRUS: I feel that I’m much slowed you down now. I’m so much sharper than I was. And I think that I was at one point pretty malnutrition. Like, I remember going to Glastonbury. And that was a show that I loved. I loved my performance, but I was running on empty. Like, I was on, I was on.
JOE ROGAN: Can I ask you, were you doing a vegan diet? Like, meticulous. Were you doing intelligently?
MILEY CYRUS: Like, I did all my supplements. I do all my protein drinks. I watch every bodybuilders, YouTube about how they still.
JOE ROGAN: You can’t pay attention.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I’m saying. All of a sudden I’m like, why am I eating celery? And like, why are my thighs like f*ing huge?
JOE ROGAN: Vegan bodybuilder guys, they’re almost all on steroids.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m not on steroids.
JOE ROGAN: Well, they, I mean, and they’re, you know, they’re different bodies too. Some people, I have good friends that are vegan and they, they’re fine on it. My friend John Joseph, he’s been the vegan for like 30 years.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s why I think Nate Diaz, I was stoked. Was a vegetarian. Vegetarian at one point. Or a pescatarian that seems to fish. Yeah, that’s where I’m at.
JOE ROGAN: There’s a lot of people that function really well with that. But some people, it’s, everybody’s different. You know, we all have different ancestors and our ancestors come from different parts of the world. And, you know, I don’t know if the blood type thing is accurate, but some people really believe that.
MILEY CYRUS: So this is another thing that I like about seeing the brain is I try to eat for my brain type and not my blood type necessarily my brain type. So my brain type, I really need breaks on my brain because I did not have that. Where I, in my new song, it says, “I can’t bite the devil on my tongue.” That was like a really hard thing for me to learn how to do. But instead of going, I’m just totally impulsive and the most reactive person ever. I look and go, well, but my dad also slammed my head into a tree when I was 2. So, you know, it’s maybe as a.
JOE ROGAN: Dad that’s hard to hear. That scares the s* out of me.
MILEY CYRUS: I know. I’ve given him a award for Worst Dad Ever. Every time I go, you know, if we’re on Hollywood and there’s the Best Dad Award, I scratch out best and put worst. But he was also the best because he would allow me to do a lot of other crazy things that were awesome.
JOE ROGAN: Well, you’re fine.
The Chicken Rescue Story
MILEY CYRUS: I mean, my dad let me kill chickens from the Malibu barn, that little red barn when you come down, Topanga. My dad, they were going to feed these chickens to the snakes. And they led us back there. My dad was like, “Listen, I’m Billy Ray Cyrus. I’m going to totally distract him. You shove as many chickens in the back of the Corvette as you can while I’m signing autographs and we’re going to get the hell out of here.”
So I did. I went. Me and my brother got all these chickens and we shoved them in the back of his car. And he was going to.
JOE ROGAN: Snakes went hungry, though.
MILEY CYRUS: He was about to go work for David Lynch. Well, he was going to audition for him for Mulholland Drive. And my dad brought the chickens in the Corvette. And he said, “If you’re going to have chickens in the Corvette playing the pool guy, you know, that’s a pool guy thing to do.” So my dad got the job.
So because he got the job, he had to stay in LA and we had to go back to Tennessee. So he told me and my mom to tell the people on the airplane that they were exotic Himalayan cockatoos. And we did. And they let them on the plane, and we had them in the purse and they lived in a bathtub like on Hollywood and Highland in some hotel for a long time.
And then we got home, and the night we got there, our dogs got and the chicken coop made them all. So they died anyway. But that’s the kind of dad my dad is. He sets you up for failure and for disappointment. But I like that about him because he made me tough.
Dogs, Chickens, and Nature’s Way
JOE ROGAN: Well, I mean, it’s hard to keep dogs out of chicken coops. I had a dog that got into the chicken coop, too. I had a lot of chickens at one point in time. And then after the last fire out here, my chicken coop, my house stayed okay, but my chicken coop burnt to the ground. And then we had to put them in a smaller chicken coop and the coyotes got them.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s the thing. You can’t blame dad for nature. That’s the way that it is.
JOE ROGAN: Dogs will eat chickens. They both give them a chance.
MILEY CYRUS: So will snakes, apparently.
JOE ROGAN: F* yeah.
Brain Scans and Logic Over Emotion
JOE ROGAN: So your brain, when they do this scan, do they tell you what you should do to make it better? Like, what do they do? They look at and go, you’re f*ed up.
MILEY CYRUS: No, they tell you what to make it better. He works kind of with a lot of athletes, people that kind of live abnormal lifestyle and injuries. Just posted a cool picture with Tyson and he just works with all different. I love seeing the other brains that I’m allowed to see also because it kind of is fun to. I would love like a Match.com but where people just put their brain scans. I’m like, I like that one that’s lighting up the right where I need it. You know, you got something I don’t have.
JOE ROGAN: That would be actually amazing if that’s how it worked. Because personalities are weird. Like people sometimes you go, they just work together.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly. And I have to do with that. I’m not really looking now, I guess for as much as I’m looking for the soul connection, but I’m more about the brain connection. I’m a very logical. I like to have kind of logic in my life because I used to be kind of owned by emotion in a way. I was very emotional and that’s what I meant by tough. So I used to be very emotional and cry about things.
JOE ROGAN: And now you get over things.
MILEY CYRUS: And also more like I would really kind of just become such a recluse. I had that tendency. My dad said everyone’s just getting on social distancing. He’s been doing it since 1992. Like my dad’s been on social. I said it as soon as we walked in here.
JOE ROGAN: That was around “Achy Breaky Heart” time.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes.
JOE ROGAN: Right. 1992.
MILEY CYRUS: That was right when I was born. And that is when it was all crazy. So that also explains, I mean, I think somewhat of my just who I am, my personality, how I am.
Growing Up in Fame’s Shadow
JOE ROGAN: Did your dad talk to you about what the anxiety was like for him when he became famous?
MILEY CYRUS: My dad was f*ing…
JOE ROGAN: For people who don’t know, in the early 1990s, your dad was a f*ing superstar.
MILEY CYRUS: But he had a very different lifestyle than I did. My dad grew up in a house that didn’t even have an indoor bathroom. My dad hadn’t gone to the dentist until he was 30 years old. My dad grew up poor. My uncle still lives in their same house. He’s got an indoor bathroom now because my dad put that in. But he still lives in the same house.
Yeah, so my dad grew up in one of the poorer areas in the country. My dad grew up in Appalachia and Kentucky. I’ve been there a bunch, and I’ve been able to see where my dad’s from. So he had a different relationship to fame, because he went from nothing to everything.
I went kind of from having everything. If we look at really, the way I grew up, lived in a big house on a big farm. The only thing that was sad about is I didn’t have kind of neighbors or normal kids around because I lived on this big kind of isolated farm, but went to school, had this normal life. But, I mean, if we really look at it, I didn’t know when I was a kid that I had everything, but I had everything.
So I went from having it all to having more. And I don’t know what’s harder to kind of humanize, I guess, about yourself. Because my life is very unique, and so it’s very hard for me to sit with someone and relate to them. And I think that made me really scared because my mom doesn’t like to be alone. So I have that fear in my mind if I don’t want to be alone. But I think what makes you lonely isn’t the amount of people around. But am I relating to people? Am I really connecting?
Life in the Fishbowl
JOE ROGAN: Well, you must have a hard time connecting to people because they don’t have the same life experience as you. Your reality, it’s like you’re in a fishbowl. You’re in a different reality, and you’re hanging out next to people that aren’t in the fishbowl.
MILEY CYRUS: Here’s the difference of the fishbowl. So we usually put the fish in the fishbowl.
JOE ROGAN: You were born in the fishbowl, right?
MILEY CYRUS: We do it, and I was born into it, but then again, I put myself into it. So if you get a beta, you’re the one that does it.
JOE ROGAN: You did it when you were a little kid and you didn’t know what you were doing.
MILEY CYRUS: But my parents didn’t really want me to. So my dad wouldn’t even really go with us to the auditions. He was actually kind of mad at my mom about it. That was kind of a thing. And then my mom’s like, I’m going to do this. She stays in this small town, she’s going to be like everybody else that just ends up on drugs. So she took me to LA. Mom, like, hello. She didn’t even smoke weed yet. Well, this is not the AB that I’ve ever heard of. Like, let’s avoid drugs in Nashville. So let’s get more and better. A lot better drugs in LA.
Resilience and Strength
JOE ROGAN: But we’re going way off track. What bothers you about being more resilient? Because that’s what it sounds like when you say more tough. You’re talking about the difference between someone who reacts overly emotionally to something. You would fall to the ground and curl up in a ball and cry about things, and now you can get over them. That, to me, is the sign of perspective.
MILEY CYRUS: Okay, so here’s where it is. And I don’t even want to have a conversation about really sexism or men versus women, because I love dudes. And I actually relate to dudes a lot more. But I think men in my life have told me that I’m cold or I’m a cold f*ing bitch because I leave when things are done.
I’m really into a lot of freaky things, but I don’t f* dead guys. And when it’s over, it’s over and you’re dead to me and we move on. So that’s how I feel about it.
JOE ROGAN: That’s heavy.
MILEY CYRUS: And I’ll do a lot of things, but I don’t do that. And so I think that that’s where I’ve gotten the idea, which, actually, I’m glad you just said that to me, because I get this kind of beaten into the brain from all different angles. My mom’s like, everyone else is proud of me for being, like you said, resilient. And I have a lot of guilt. I’m a very guilty person.
JOE ROGAN: But that sounds like you’re talking to guys who want you to feel guilty because you don’t feel emotional about it ending.
MILEY CYRUS: And this is the first time people…
JOE ROGAN: Need to learn how to just let s* go. If they like you or if they love you, they have to.
MILEY CYRUS: Love you, they have to.
JOE ROGAN: Well, they don’t love you. They should want you to be happy. Just let it pass and then be friends.
MILEY CYRUS: Okay.
JOE ROGAN: So if they can’t do that, that’s on them. That’s not on you.
Finding Autonomy in Relationships
MILEY CYRUS: Because you’re an older man. Because these guys that are, I definitely should be with someone. I think that you got to find Nick Nolte. This is what I’m thinking. I don’t need a man or a woman that’s going to take care of me. I can take care of me because I’ve got money, I’ve got all the things that I need to take care of myself. I need them to be able to take care of them. Because somehow I keep getting into…
JOE ROGAN: You need someone with autonomy.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes.
JOE ROGAN: That’s what you need. You need someone who they don’t need your constant approval and affection.
MILEY CYRUS: In other words, using this word “need.” Just for the record, I guess I really don’t need to be in a relationship at all. So that’s good. We got to this point. See, this is therapy.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, you don’t need it, but people can poison you with their ideas of what you should be. And if you don’t meet up to their expectations, and oftentimes their expectations of you are just to reaffirm themselves. They want you to love them. They want you to tell them how awesome they are. And if you don’t feel that way, you’re cold. There’s something wrong with you. Because they don’t have autonomy, they can’t exist independently.
MILEY CYRUS: Right.
JOE ROGAN: That’s the problem. The problem is a lot of bitches out there.
MILEY CYRUS: I like it. You said it, not me. That’s how I feel. And honestly, we’re talking at a very, this is a super kind of pivotal moment for me right now. I haven’t been single in, I guess, really from 2015. I mean, there’s been little months, so maybe about five years. I’ve had a few months here and there where I’ve been single, but not for a long period of time.
And something I’m really excited about is this VMA performance that’s coming up. And I love that it’s the first time that I’m going to be on that stage as a single badass, grown, evolved, secure woman that’s done a lot of work. I’ve done the work. And that’s the thing some people say, how did you get here? You turned out pretty good. And it’s like, dude, I worked really hard at it.
JOE ROGAN: But just seriously, get it in your head. Anytime someone gives you a hard time about being strong, you’re not a bad person. Just because you’re strong, just because you don’t cry as easy as you used to. That’s ridiculous, man. It’s ridiculous. You need perspective. That’s all it is. You’re not a bad. You’re literally all these f*ing animals you have. How could you be a bad person if you love animals that way?
Kate Moss the Bulldog
MILEY CYRUS: Dude, I put this stuff called Monkey Butt on my dogs.
JOE ROGAN: What is Monkey Butt?
MILEY CYRUS: Every day this baby powder for dog butts. Because I got this guy, one of my friend who said, oh, my God, this is a whole other story. My friend who’s sitting out there right now tried to immediately make me happy. Because I just went through a breakup and showed me a hot guy on Instagram. And I started scrolling and I see him putting this powder on his dog’s ass. I’m like, I don’t want him, but I want that stuff for the dog’s ass. That was great. So I ordered it right away, Monkey Butt.
So I have a dog. She can’t see, she can’t hear, she can barely walk. She was dropped at a fire station. She was overbred. She’s a bulldog. They breed them crazy. And she can barely get off the floor. She’s so overweight. And her name is Kate Moss.
And what I love about it is I tell everybody when I’m coming to set, I’m going to bring Kate Moss, make sure she’s good, she’s Covid tested, we’re all good. And then all the men on set’s face are the best. Because it’s like, I thought Miley Cyrus was bringing Kate Moss. It was going to be the best day of my life. And then she comes in with her big ass, literally, that I have baby powder. She has diapers, because I put diapers on her for when she comes to set. Because her butt is atrocious.
JOE ROGAN: Do you just need to get her on a diet?
On Resilience and Being Called a “Cold Bitch”
MILEY CYRUS: I have her on a diet, honestly. I’ll show you some pictures when we’re done with this. Because she had this thing called a cherry eye, and everyone—she had both eyes. So they were trying to get me to either remove her eye or do all this surgery, whatever. I’m like, let me do this the old fashioned way.
So every day I get up, I clean her eyes. See, I’m not a bad person. I clean her eyes. I put four drops in two times a day, give her three taps. She’s lost probably 10 pounds already. And the cherries are completely out of her eyes. She is healed.
And what I love about her and I’ll show you these videos, is she can sing. That’s what really locked her in. So I’ve never known this to be for a dog to do this. When I do scales and I warm up from my shows, she howls and sings with me. And she’s got perfect pitch.
JOE ROGAN: That’s cool.
MILEY CYRUS: So I hadn’t even adopted her yet. I was fostering her, and I was going to take her to set, hoping, you know, somebody’s kids wanted a dog and they would want her. And the first thing that someone said is “a face only a mother can love.” And I was like, that’s not true. I love her.
And so I love her because she started singing to me, and then I adopted her right then. She’s so ugly that they waived the adoption fee. They said—that’s not a lie. They literally—she was free. And I now have to remind myself, they say the best things in life are free. And when I look at her and her big ass, I know it’s true.
JOE ROGAN: She’s so ugly, she’s free. I had a friend who had wolves. He had wolf dogs. And you could sing in his house, and the wolves would start howling.
MILEY CYRUS: And they would see my—my dogs do that with the ambulance here.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes. So they start going. Then my dogs start going. So all the dogs sing, but none of them do it to scale like Kate Moss.
JOE ROGAN: That’s adorable.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, yeah, she’s good.
JOE ROGAN: So, yeah, don’t let anybody tell you that there’s something wrong with being resilient, but people will do that. Men will do that. I see a lot of men do that with women. They want women to feel bad. They want them to feel bad for not being emotional.
MILEY CYRUS: And I used to get small. That’s what I’m telling you. See, that’s what I—it used to be really easy to kind of put me back in the, you know, kind of Jack in the box kind of thing. You know, you could get me to come out just for a little while. But it’s become suspiciously convenient timing. It always seems that I get told that I’m a cold bitch before I’m ready.
JOE ROGAN: Right when you’re done.
MILEY CYRUS: Right when I—right when I’m ready to put out f*ing music. It happens every time.
JOE ROGAN: Because you’re focused on other things.
MILEY CYRUS: Focus on other things. Exactly. And then it’s like, you know, and then I—it’s just—it’s all—it’s a whole thing. It’s all.
Energy, Exercise, and Grubby Kid Hands
JOE ROGAN: You have so much energy, like, the way you talk, and all the sentences run on into the next. Do you exercise?
MILEY CYRUS: Yes, I exercise.
JOE ROGAN: What do you do?
MILEY CYRUS: I love Pilates, and it’s not super, I guess, cardio.
JOE ROGAN: I think you need to do something.
MILEY CYRUS: I need to run a little bit more. I got a bag being put in my house right now, so I’m going to—next time I’m here, I’ll show you. I’ll be able to beat the f* out of it.
JOE ROGAN: Protect your hands.
MILEY CYRUS: Like, these nails come off. I just have them taped on. This is Dolly style. Everything about me is taped on, honey. It’s an easy—at night, you just go. When I—yeah.
JOE ROGAN: People that have played guitar and musical instruments and they hurt their hands.
MILEY CYRUS: I actually had a guy tell me that I had grubby little kid hands, and I liked that about it because I did have dirt. And that was because this was at a time where I was doing drugs, and I wanted to know where the hell the gophers go.
So there was a gopher hole in my backyard, and I’m like, where do they keep going? I see them pop up and they go in. I’m like, if you can dig to China, you can dig—if I can find a gopher. So here I go.
JOE ROGAN: You can’t really dig to China.
MILEY CYRUS: I know that much. And you can’t find the gophers either.
JOE ROGAN: You can know how to get them.
MILEY CYRUS: I could not find the gophers. And I looked for a very long time. I even tried to get them out with pizza. I brought pizza down into the hole, hoping that, you know, everybody loves pizza. Apparently not gophers.
JOE ROGAN: You rarely see gophers, but you see their holes all.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I’m telling you. That’s where I was trying to go. That’s it. You know when someone tells you that they’ve been enlightened, they saw Jesus. And, you know, whatever—I wanted to see—I don’t even want to see Jesus. I just want to see a damn gopher. So I went into the hole, and I never saw a gopher.
JOE ROGAN: I want to see a wolverine.
MILEY CYRUS: I’ll die disappointed.
JOE ROGAN: If there’s one animal I could see in the wild, I’d like to see a wolverine.
MILEY CYRUS: See, you’re like, that’s next level. I just want a freaking regular degular gopher in the backyard.
JOE ROGAN: You rarely see them, but I’ve seen them. But I think wolverines are dope. Super cool. Well, I just think seeing one of them f*ers, that’s rare. It’s rare to see one of those things in the wild.
Bears, Catnip, and Spirit Bears in BC
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. My dad—my dad wanted to see a bear for 30 years. He had this dream. This is so—I don’t know if he’s lying or what the hell’s going on, but we’re on this plane and he’s so excited. He’s like, “I’m going to see”—he—my dad’s a little kind of intuitive that way.
And he’s like, “I’m going to finally do it. I’ve been looking for 30 years. And when you look hard enough and you’re diligent about what you want, you know, I believe that you get it through diligence. And I’ve been looking for bears for 30 years.” Whatever.
And so he brought catnip so he could get the bear to come out. I’m like, what the f*—what’s the deal? So, of course, my dad ends up going on some hike and he sees a bear and he leaves the catnip for—as a treat, he ends up leaving. And now I was so scared. You know, catnip gets the cats hype. Like, it’s like crack. I’m like, please don’t give crack to the bear.
JOE ROGAN: I don’t think it works that well.
MILEY CYRUS: I was just—I hope to God that I don’t know. How would you know? Has anyone ever given catnip to a bear?
JOE ROGAN: I’m sure someone’s done.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s very niche. I’m pretty sure if one person’s got—
JOE ROGAN: Anything, it doesn’t work on dogs. So why would it work on bears?
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t know. Dogs aren’t bears. I don’t know.
JOE ROGAN: They seem to be, like, more closer to dogs, like, than cat.
MILEY CYRUS: Well, no, bears ended up going ham and doing anything crazy.
JOE ROGAN: How’d your dad see a bear?
MILEY CYRUS: He was somewhere on the east coast doing a show.
JOE ROGAN: There’s plenty of places to see bears. You don’t have to wait 30 years.
MILEY CYRUS: My dad probably is lazy as hell and probably said, “I looked everywhere.” Probably opened his front f*ing door, bear wasn’t standing there and went back inside.
JOE ROGAN: Well, that’s what people think. There’s no bear left. Go outside. Look, just go to the right place.
MILEY CYRUS: I’ve seen bears. I went—I spent a little bit of time in Vancouver, BC with my brother. This is actually one of the crazier things I’ve ever done. People think I’m so crazy, but this is the craziest thing. But it’s not even that nuts.
I was following, like, Nat Geo on Instagram, and I love the pictures of the spirit bears. I love those beautiful bears up in BC. And I kind of started reading about the wolf call up there, and I got really kind of invested in these animals.
And I sent a DM and said, “Is there any way that some point I could go with maybe some of your researchers and I could see some of these bears or wolves from myself? Because I think I’d be even more inspired to kind of fight for them if I could actually see them and know that they’re really real, because I’ve only ever seen them from a picture.”
And they responded and said, “Sure, you can come up and hang with the spirit.” But this is kind of like—I don’t know if it’s catfishing or—I don’t know what was really going on, but someone’s telling me, “Sure.”
So me and my brother load up. I didn’t really want to get my parents involved, so we got a coach flight and had to go through San Francisco. Then we got this shitty little hotel room because we were just trying to—I didn’t know how to do it. Everyone’s always done my travel for me, managers and all these things. So I was just booking it.
So we end up taking, like, two little planes, three boats, and we end up getting to—with this dude Ian, who shoots for Nat Geo and shoots up in BC, and it was just amazing. And I got to see all the spirit bears. I got to go into, like, where they do all their research on their boat.
So they’ll leave these, like, kind of like trap combs where they—it just brushes the bear’s hair when it walks by. So they can understand kind of more about it and DNA test. Yeah. Sort of looking about, like, all this information again.
This is one of the kind of weirder things that I’ve done that I didn’t really know who was going to be waiting on that boat. I mean, I know we tell girls not to go out into the middle of a boat.
JOE ROGAN: How old were you when you were doing this?
MILEY CYRUS: This was two weeks after the VMAs in 2015.
JOE ROGAN: So you’re already super famous.
MILEY CYRUS: I was super famous going out there.
JOE ROGAN: To find bears with my brother.
MILEY CYRUS: There I am. Yeah, there I am. Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Do you find that if you’re not glammed up that you can kind of sneak around?
MILEY CYRUS: Well, this is kind of funny because I think it’s happening in a second. They gave me a caterpillar that if you lick its belly, your tongue goes numb.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, great.
MILEY CYRUS: And I pretended that I was—it might happen somewhere here. Oh, yeah. Save the BC wolves.
JOE ROGAN: But if, like, you don’t wear makeup and shit, can you sneak around?
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, I sneak around pretty good. It’s the voice. It’s not the—I just have to shut up. Yeah, it’s the voice.
JOE ROGAN: Can you f* with your voice and make it high? Can you pretend?
MILEY CYRUS: Not really. Not really. I have a phone voice. I think I apparently, you know, I directed this last video, and apparently when I read my presentations, I have, like, a different voice, you know, like when you answer the phone. But I think it sounds the same. My phone voice, I think, is like—I think it just sounds the same. Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: So that’s what gets you?
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what gets me. Every time people know. Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: They’re like, “Wait, but listen to you.”
MILEY CYRUS: It’s her. Yeah, exactly. That’s the worst. When you hear those whispers.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Those are weird whispers, right?
MILEY CYRUS: Yep.
Growing Up Famous
JOE ROGAN: Your life of growing up famous is—that doesn’t end well for most people. You’re remarkably together for someone who grew up famous. It’s a weird way. It’s a weird alchemy to put together a human being where in your developmental stages, preteen, in fact, you’re hugely famous. What do you think that did for you?
MILEY CYRUS: What did it do for me?
JOE ROGAN: Do you think that’s a good thing or do you think it’s a manageable thing?
The Deep End of Fame
MILEY CYRUS: I would say it isn’t recommended because, like I kind of said in the beginning of this, it’s like jumping the deep end of the pool and not knowing if you can swim or not. And it can go one way or the other. Luckily I swam, but it almost always—
JOE ROGAN: Goes the wrong way.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, I know.
JOE ROGAN: Almost always.
MILEY CYRUS: And that I don’t think comes very recommended. And I wouldn’t recommend it. I don’t know. I don’t know what it is, but I feel like I’ve kind of been given this special—I don’t know, kind of special understanding of—I don’t even know where it comes from because I’m really not religious. And maybe it comes from education of getting a good understanding of, you know, I’ve got kind of a good idea of what fame does on—kind of, if we’re looking at it from a level of—
JOE ROGAN: Were you thinking about this when you were younger?
MILEY CYRUS: I wasn’t thinking about this when I was young, but I started thinking about it at the time where I think it kind of mattered that I could go one way or the other. And that was probably when I was 17 and I bought Dr. Amen’s book about understanding why I can’t get high enough on drugs, and why I end up doing more drugs than anybody else.
I wrote a song where one of the lines says, “I’ll go toe to toe like I’m Ali.” I’ll just—I’ll do more. That could be the biggest guy in the room. And I’ll say, I’ll be able to do more drugs than you. But it’s because my level of what high is—I felt it from, I mean, when you’re having 15,000 people scream your name and sing along to your songs, it’s like, you know how you’re saying your float tank is getting high without drugs? It’s like half a times a billion.
So it’s really hard to come down off that. And I never, luckily had a problem with taking downers to bring myself down, but there was a lot of people around me that was like, you know, just take half of these and you’ll be fine.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: You know, so I’m lucky I didn’t start messing with downers.
Brain Injury and Consciousness
JOE ROGAN: I think it also might have to do with your head injury.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, yeah.
JOE ROGAN: I know that there’s a real big connection between people with traumatic brain injury and the need for either alcohol or cocaine or something to perturb your natural state of consciousness.
MILEY CYRUS: And a lot of my brain is really, really on. It’s got over activity. But then again, if you kind of look at the part, that frontal lobe that kind of tells you yes or no or stops you from making a bad choice, mine gets a little sleepy sometimes when I’m not doing—especially when it comes to the diet. When my diet isn’t—you annoying. Because I do like to—when I’m country, so I like to eat bad food.
I had never—my mom used to get mad if I would tell her, I don’t want butter. My mom is like, great for you. Yeah, now I’m fine. But I just remember growing up, my mom, you know, we ate frozen waffles and all that. We don’t know anything about nutrition. I grew up on that country diet, and so I learned a lot.
I honestly, I mark a lot of my, I guess, kind of my grounding and the weight that I have to my diet, to my supplementing, to my maintenance, to the diligence, to the sport that being an entertainer is.
JOE ROGAN: It is a sport.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, it is.
JOE ROGAN: Are you the boss?
MILEY CYRUS: Yes, I’m the boss.
JOE ROGAN: You’re the boss?
MILEY CYRUS: I’m the boss.
Mentorship and Dolly Parton
JOE ROGAN: Do you have a mentor? Do you have someone that you can consult with when sh*t is weird?
MILEY CYRUS: I send faxes back and forth to Dolly Parton because that’s how she communicates.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, sh*t.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s how she—
JOE ROGAN: Well, listen, if you need a mentor, that’s the mentor.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly.
JOE ROGAN: As a woman who’s done it.
MILEY CYRUS: And I kind of—I try to kind of—you know, my life moves so fast. I try to kind of send her a little kind of rundown of what’s going on every other month.
JOE ROGAN: You guys fax?
MILEY CYRUS: She faxes me. Then I send an email and they fax to her. They email—
JOE ROGAN: The fact that’s amazing about that.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, it is. She records everything on the cassette and all that.
JOE ROGAN: She records it on a cassette?
MILEY CYRUS: And so she’s—I have actually a recording of her saying it. It’s somewhere. It’s on the beginning of Rainbow Lander at the end of it.
JOE ROGAN: But she said, oh, I listened to that.
MILEY CYRUS: She goes, “All right, I’m going to put this on my cassette. Then I’m going to run it down onto a CD. Oh, I’m so high tech.” Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: We played “Jolene,” your cover “Jolene,” on this podcast once.
MILEY CYRUS: Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. A lot of kids kind of think that’s my song now. That’s what I like doing about covers. I think you were talking about that Cornell tribute at one point also. And that’s what I love. My fans, you know, they wouldn’t really know unless I introduced it to them. And that’s something that I really love.
And that happened recently with “Midnight Sky” and Stevie Nicks. There’s a sample of “Edge,” which I got blessed by her to be able to allow me to do it. I had another melody, a B melody. It’s definitely below a B because it’s not “Edge of Seventeen,” which is my top five favorite song ever. And she said, “You can borrow from me anytime.” Which, that’s awesome. So cool. Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. That’s got to be pretty badass to be able to be in contact and to collaborate with all these amazing artists.
MILEY CYRUS: And I went on the road with Joan Jett for a little while too, and she was on tour with The Who. I went and hung out with her for a little while, you know, even if I show up there and I’d maybe been partying too much and she would yell, her manager, Kenny, who’s, you know, been her manager and in her band from the beginning, “Kenny, we got to get her some Mexican food or something. Look at her, she’s going to break in half.”
And you know, all of a sudden all this food starts showing up in my room. And you know, I think she’s probably seen, you know, not just in her own band, but, you know, she’s seen everything. I think she’s seen everything and I think she’s seen it go the wrong way. You know, how we’re talking about whether you swim or drown. I think she’s seen a lot more people drown. And so she always tries to feed me.
Swimming or Drowning
JOE ROGAN: But that’s where it’s got to be really hard if you’re a woman like her who’s been there, done that, and then you see some young girl coming up and you’re like, damn, this lady right now is in the waves. And you’ve been in the waves many times where that ship is rocking back and forth and you don’t know which way it’s going to go. When you’re a 17-year-old kid and you’re doing a lot of mushrooms and smoking a lot of pot and also you’re super fing famous and really people can’t tell you sht, which is part of the problem.
MILEY CYRUS: I know. That’s why my mom the best. I didn’t understand she was the best at the time. She’d still take my cell phone. I’m like, how can you take it? I’m paying for it. And she’s like, I gave you life. Shut up. You know, and yeah, my mom still took my cell phone until I was almost 20.
JOE ROGAN: You have an almost manic way of talking.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Your way of talking is almost like a fountain. Like a crazy fountain. Like words just keep coming and ideas just keep coming.
MILEY CYRUS: I know.
JOE ROGAN: How do you set the—
Meditation and Calming Down
MILEY CYRUS: I am into a lot of these—I love the idea of these hypnosis apps. I have a lot of those on.
JOE ROGAN: Which ones do you use?
MILEY CYRUS: I like Amen Clinics. So I’m all about my boy, Dr. Amen. I listen to Headspace a lot and I like Calm. I use that a lot also.
JOE ROGAN: Calm’s great.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes. I actually—my favorite thing about Headspace is, I love the sleep skates and my favorite one is the Cat Marina because I do love boats and I do love cats, so that’s a dream for me after a long day.
JOE ROGAN: Does that work on you? Does it calm you down?
MILEY CYRUS: When my house burned down, I literally, I’m not joking, the Cat Marina got me through. I was Shannon in South Africa, and every night I’d be like, “Hello and good evening. You’re at the Cat Marina. Lucky for you, you love cats. What do you love? More boats, you know?” And it’s like, hell, yeah, I’m at the Cat Marina. My house is on the ground in a million pieces, and I’ll never see anything that I love inside of again. But I’m at the f*ing Cat Marina.
JOE ROGAN: I’m not a doctor, but if I was, I would prescribe to you some ridiculous, rigorous exercise. I think you are—you’re like a little Ferrari and you need to get out there on the f*ing racetrack.
MILEY CYRUS: Let’s go.
JOE ROGAN: I really think that I see all this f*ing energy you have. I’m like, that lady’s like an overflowing battery.
MILEY CYRUS: This is why I like—this is why I like to work hard. And maybe that’s—maybe, sure, yeah, I love to work.
JOE ROGAN: You’re a thoroughbred.
MILEY CYRUS: I do. And when I don’t work, that’s when I get trouble.
Physical Pain and Exercise
JOE ROGAN: But you also got to think about there’s genetics involved. You know, your father was a musician and, you know, just—and then all your life being in the public eye like that and performing and working and then just the amount of effort that you put in when you were a kid, touring all the time, I mean, you’re geared for that, you know. And I just feel like people like that your body can betray you sometimes.
MILEY CYRUS: I have a lot of physical pain, to be honest with you. And that’s something I’m working on and trying to figure out too. And that had a lot—
JOE ROGAN: You got physical pain?
MILEY CYRUS: Physical pain. My hips really, really hurt me, and my hips drive me crazy. If I fly, I think—I don’t know, maybe it’s just the—
JOE ROGAN: Do you stretch?
MILEY CYRUS: I do stretch. I’m actually overly flexible. I’m kind of double jointed everywhere. And so I have a lot of shoulder—my shoulder will just slip out all the time. It kind of just does weird things and my arms twist in weird directions.
JOE ROGAN: Are you physically stretching?
MILEY CYRUS: Physically strong? I think I’m pretty strong. I’ve been stronger. I’ve been stronger.
JOE ROGAN: Maybe it’s like a muscle thing. Maybe you need to exercise. Weightlift.
MILEY CYRUS: I really, really loved lifting and doing all my weight training, my resistance, and then the kind of the veganism. I was kind of trying to—I think I’m really kind of building myself back up to realize what works. So I’m actually right now in a very experimental period. It’s actually fun to talk about with you because I know that you kind of have probably some good suggestions on that.
But I’m experimenting a lot with my diet and my body and my routine and my exercise right now. Because, I mean, kind of like, you know, leaving veganism is really terrifying. Like you said, the public kind of will destroy you for that.
JOE ROGAN: How long were you vegan?
MILEY CYRUS: I was vegan from 2013 till 2019.
JOE ROGAN: So in 2019, what was the first thing that you ate?
MILEY CYRUS: My husband cooked me some fish on the grill. I cried for a long time. I cried for the fish, and I—
JOE ROGAN: Those little—they didn’t take care of their kids.
MILEY CYRUS: Listen, I have some videos on my phone of my fish at home. I have a blowfish that runs to the side of the tank every time I come home. So it really hurts me to eat.
JOE ROGAN: Because it thinks you’re going to feed it, and I do. Every time.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, that’s it. But you know what?
JOE ROGAN: I haven’t really had you get shot in the head. That fish doesn’t give a—
MILEY CYRUS: Well, that’s what my ex said about the dogs. And I’m like, I can’t do this. The dogs. And he’s like, “watch this,” starts feeding them the face. They’re like, they’re happy. You know, they’ll eat it. But so that’s what I had. And it was because of a hip pain I had actually going to—we were flying to, I think, Poland or something on a tour that I was on, and I started sobbing, crying on the plane because I couldn’t sit any longer because my hips were hurting so bad.
JOE ROGAN: So this was pre—and laying on the floor, pre quitting gluten.
MILEY CYRUS: Now I’m back on gluten. I did a trial period of 18 of, like, kind of removing things, because I think when you try all these different diets, like, “okay, now I’m going to try keto. Now I’m going to try vegan. Now I’m going to try this,” you’re doing it at such a kind of—it’s really hard to know what’s affecting you.
So I tried to go slowly, like, “okay, it takes a freaking long time.” But going through and going, “I’m going to eliminate this now, and then I’m going to put it back and see how I feel.” My body when I am supplementing, especially with the omegas, like, the omegas have really changed my life for me. I think again, you know, you kind of refer to me as something like a car. And I think that we are kind of like a car. And I was like so dry from having none of these healthy fats in my diet. I did what I could with like as many f*ing avocados a day as I could have. But it’s hard to get the fat.
JOE ROGAN: It’s not as bioavailable when you’re fat.
MILEY CYRUS: And your brain is, you know, your brain really needs those fats. And, you know, it was really, really hard for me.
JOE ROGAN: Fish oil is the way to go.
MILEY CYRUS: Yup.
JOE ROGAN: I know people don’t like it and they don’t like the idea behind it, but goddammit, it’s so good for your brain.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, I love, I do kind of like the fish oil egg, vital choice.
JOE ROGAN: Also, I love vitamin E. Fish egg’s the way to go.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I do.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: I mean, it’s really helped my head so, so much.
JOE ROGAN: Because it’s an inflammation issue then.
Inflammation and Energy Management
MILEY CYRUS: Yes. Yeah. I think in general, my brain, like you’re saying, is kind of on fire. It is inflamed. I think in general I’m inflamed. So I’m looking for in my life, not just in kind of like dating or relationships, but in general, the people I like to have around. I like to have those kind of water signs. I like someone that can kind of—or earth signs. But I love water signs because I love being—and in general, like, I love people that are kind of like fluid and that can kind of put some of that on my flame because it gets overwhelming sometimes, the amount of heat and like energy that I generate.
I actually was reading something about ducks that’s interesting, the way that ducks handle their energy.
JOE ROGAN: Ducks.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: How do they handle their energy?
MILEY CYRUS: So ducks, you know, I guess their form of exercise. So apparently I was reading this in a book last night. I don’t know if it’s—I guess it goes with my realistic children’s, but I was reading about ducks, how they like kind of ferociously flap their wings and then they kind of swim off in peace. And you’ll kind of—you’ll see these weird kind of patterns that they do. And especially if two ducks are together.
So you throw a piece of bread in the water, one of the ducks get it, they get a little fight going on, then they both separate ways, they go to their own spot and start flapping their wings all crazy to get out some of that energy, and then they just swim away in peace. And I’m like, I guess that’s kind of what you’re saying, that I need. I need to be more duck. Like, I need to—whether it’s the beginning of the day or the end of the day, I need something to go and, like, flap my wings and get out that extra energy.
Because I think that’s part of the physical pain. Like when I went to go check in on the pain before, and I’ve been to a lot of people here, and no one seemed to help me with the physical pain. It actually gets really, really bad. Like, especially if I fly, I usually have to lay on the ground because my back hurts me so bad and my hips hurt me so bad.
JOE ROGAN: That’s crazy.
MILEY CYRUS: I know. And I’m—
JOE ROGAN: For you to be this young. Yeah, that’s crazy. And there’s no real injury you could point to this, that caused this.
MILEY CYRUS: So I overdid Ashtanga yoga for a couple years because I am extremist.
JOE ROGAN: Right.
MILEY CYRUS: And so there’s a little controversy between Ashtanga yoga and the kind of, like, hip injuries. Yeah, hip injuries. I’ve done everything and everything looks good. You know, everyone says we have no idea, you know, kind of what’s going on, but they’re not really taking into consideration my lifestyle, which—that has to do something, you know, have to put it somewhere. This amount of energy, I don’t always get it out. You’re right. I need to freaking run more. You know what? The running helped me a lot when the house burned down, too, in South Africa. I was running every day.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. I would think that someone like you, you need something rigorous.
MILEY CYRUS: If I don’t work out, I’m not a great person.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. I can guarantee you.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, yeah. We don’t do calls or work meetings before I work out. That’s—we know this. We’ve learned from the past that—
JOE ROGAN: Do you have a trainer?
MILEY CYRUS: Very important. Yeah, Yeah, I do.
JOE ROGAN: Is it a good trainer if someone kicks your ass?
Training and Emotional Balance
MILEY CYRUS: I’m a good trainer, but I need to—I think in times where my trainer’s kind of like family, like, for me now, and maybe getting a little too—
JOE ROGAN: Soft, a little too comfortable, a little—
MILEY CYRUS: Too soft in the way that when I’m going through, like, you know, this week I went through, like, another public breakup. I had the VMAs. The song was coming out at the same time. And when I got into the gym like, I would sometimes just start crying. Because I love them like family. So when you walk in, I would just start crying.
JOE ROGAN: Because you know that you could be comfortable, just comfortable.
MILEY CYRUS: And then I think that it’s hard to go, “okay, now I’m going to beat your ass.” Because I think he thinks life is beating my ass. But maybe I need just—
JOE ROGAN: Maybe it’s separate those things.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. There’s the job to be done.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: All that emotion’s great. And it’s wonderful that he loves you and you guys are friends.
MILEY CYRUS: I think it’s a little bit my bad for, like, wondering how hard I want to be pushed.
JOE ROGAN: Well, it’s also, you’re the boss.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s the problem.
JOE ROGAN: When you’re the boss and you’re Miley Cyrus, you can’t say, “listen, bitch, it’s time to go to work.”
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, you know, he’ll do it to me sometimes, which I like.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, he can’t do it to me much. Because then you’re like, “no, no, I’m the f*ing boss.” And then you got relationship.
MILEY CYRUS: Then I think I—I want to kind of—I don’t know what it is. It’s not give up. But then I think sometimes I wonder how much—and I really don’t even like saying this, because I kind of have guilt for my life. Like, I don’t mean it’s too much. Like, I can’t take anything else. Like, I know that I don’t have the hardest life. I know how lucky I am. I know that.
JOE ROGAN: Don’t. You don’t need to compare, because just what you do is very difficult. Don’t make any mistake about that.
MILEY CYRUS: I have a hard time with that. I feel very guilty and—
The Reality of Fame
JOE ROGAN: Nonsense. Throw someone else into your existence. First of all, A, you didn’t choose it, okay? You were a little kid and you became famous. B, being in the public eye and just dealing with the things we were talking about, about people writing stories that are fake about you. All that stuff comes at a price. And if you read it, it comes at a heavier price. But even just knowing it exists, it gets in your head.
You have to be very strong to be able to ward that off. And the idea that you don’t and that it’s easy and that a regular life is easier—
MILEY CYRUS: Horrible.
JOE ROGAN: Regular life is just a regular life. It’s not easier or harder. But what you do is f*ing hard. It’s very hard. You’re very famous. Being very famous is weird. And being very famous, your whole life is even weirder. So a normal person develops right. You go through life and you meet friends and you have to show that you’re a good person to get people to like you. You have to show, you know, some sort of some excellence at something for people to praise you.
You’re getting f*ing praised from the time you’re a baby. Basically. It’s a weird way to develop.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes.
JOE ROGAN: And so for you to reach adulthood and try to be conscious and try to be sentient and try to, like, to just stay balanced, it’s—you’re dealing with a situation that 99.999% of the population has no f*ing idea what you’re handling.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: The only people that are going to understand it are people that also grew up famous.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. Which I have a hard time with because—because I haven’t made that exactly my peer group. And now I kind of am like—I think I’ve been really searching for some sort of normalcy in my life and for sure. And so I think I haven’t surrounded myself with the top of kind of people that are also at this—at this level. Because I feel—I have a lot of guilt. Like, I feel like I would be—I feel like that would make me shallow or something for only surrounding myself for, like, rich and famous people.
JOE ROGAN: But people do that because they’re the only ones that can relate to you.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I’m working on.
JOE ROGAN: You feel like people that are regular folks, they treat you weird or they like you more than they should or that they, you know, they praise you more than they should because you’re an alien.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: You’re this like, “oh, she’s here. She’s f*ing Miley Cyrus.”
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: You’re not like a regular person that walks into a room and you’ll never be a regular person.
MILEY CYRUS: And I think rather than trying to prove, like, excellence in any way, when I walk in a room, I try to prove really hard that I’m normal.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: And that’s exhausting.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: But I don’t want to be normal. Which is funny, so—because it’s kind of like you make a goal. You know, I do this with Eamon about making a goal and then going towards what I want. It’s like, I don’t want to be normal. But I constantly struggle with, am I a f*ing rich asshole?
The Path Forward
JOE ROGAN: Well, this is the beautiful thing. The beautiful thing is that you’re thinking. You’re thinking about all this, you’re balancing it out. But this is not a path that very many people have gone through successfully. And so that’s why you have to be careful, because you’re here right now. You’re okay right now. Miley Cyrus in 2020. You’re great. You’re good. I mean, you’ve gone through divorce, you’ve gone through this, you’ve gone through that, but you’re right here, right now. You’re okay.
The path forward is treacherous. It is going to be, because you didn’t develop like a normal person. Every f*ing child star. I mean, like, maybe like Jodie Foster. How many of them made it through? And I don’t know her, maybe that lady’s crazy. She’s an amazing actress, right? There’s a few that made it through. There’s not many. And it’s not a good path. It’s not a path that I would ever recommend to somebody. And once you’ve gone through it, there’s no way to go back and do it all over again, right?
MILEY CYRUS: But I say with confidence that I feel like I could be the one. Because I feel like I don’t expect it to be easy, and I don’t even want it to be, actually. I had a guy trying to be shitty to me one time, said, “You want a guy that’ll just do whatever you want?” I said, “That’s where you’re wrong. I want all the challenging things.” If it’s something that’s easy, I don’t f*ing want it. I never have.
That’s why I didn’t keep living my life in Nashville, where we were the biggest fish in the small pond and all that kind of thing. I needed more. And the reason why I say that with confidence is because I’m really willing to do the work. And I’m also willing to look at myself from a human level and also look at what my body needs to thrive.
And I know that it can’t be cocaine for me, and I know that it can’t be alcohol. And I know that, unfortunately, I love f*ing fish. But at this point, I got to eat it to be able to have my brain work as quickly as you and I are going right now, or what I have to do later today and going to the studio tonight. And I understand myself from a human. There’s nothing about me that thinks I am superhuman.
And I think that I would take that as something that makes me unique, because I don’t think that I’m really. I know that there’s something special about me in my life, but I don’t feel that on this level of being a human that I’m different. And so I know what it takes to keep this motor going. And I also know when to take time.
Recognizing Who You Are
JOE ROGAN: Well, all those things you said are perfect. As long as you have doubt, as long as you want to do better, as long as you’re recognizing who you are is not exactly who you want to be. You want to be better, you want to figure it all out, you want to work it all through. And you have this weird guilt from growing up in this weird way.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s bad.
JOE ROGAN: It has to be. You’re a f*ing superstar when you’re a little kid.
MILEY CYRUS: The guilt’s crazy.
JOE ROGAN: There’s no way around it. And if you hang out with normal people, they’re going to stick that in your face.
MILEY CYRUS: A lot of people hold my guilt. They know it’s a weakness, so they use it with me a lot.
JOE ROGAN: You got to find people that don’t do that.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, that’s why my crew is pretty small.
JOE ROGAN: Beautiful. Well, they’re all nice people.
MILEY CYRUS: They are. And they’ve all been in my life for over 10 years.
JOE ROGAN: And that is possible. People ask people that are famous, “Is it possible that you could find people that don’t get weird around you?” Yeah, you could find them, but they have to be strong people.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly.
JOE ROGAN: You have to have people that have their own personal sovereignty, people that can hold their own space. They don’t need you. They just love you.
Finding Strong People
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, man. You know, I had someone that tried to hurt me and say that. I mean, I really have had amazing people in my life, but I’ve had people that have tried to hurt me, too. I even brought my little scarf just in case I got emotional because I really might. I had someone recently try to tell me that everyone in my life is afraid of me. And that really makes me upset just because.
JOE ROGAN: Well, I bet a lot of people in your life are afraid of you.
MILEY CYRUS: I think everyone in my life that I have in my close inner circle really loves me. And so to say that everyone in my life acts out of fear of me. My mom, I’m almost f*ing 30. She will whip my ass. My mom will actually hit me.
JOE ROGAN: But I don’t mean it in a bad way. I don’t mean that they’re afraid of you like afraid you’re going to do something terrible. And they’re afraid around you. I mean, you’re a powerful thing. I mean this. There’s no getting away from who you are. You got to kind of accept that you’re Miley Cyrus.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: That’s a very strange thing. There’s this one Miley Cyrus in the universe that we know of. It’s you. And you’re really f*ing famous and you’re really young. It’s weird. There’s no getting around that.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: And the fact that you feel guilt about all this and the fact you want things to be difficult, those are all the best indicators that you’re trying to do better.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: You get it. You do get it. And you know that you have a hard road. And the people that don’t think you have a hard road, they’re out of their f*ing mind. I didn’t get famous until I was much later in life. And it was a slow drip into my 30s and into my 40s.
MILEY CYRUS: That seems healthier.
JOE ROGAN: It was way healthier.
MILEY CYRUS: That seems healthier.
The Dangers of Fame and Power
JOE ROGAN: But I also, during the whole time, did martial arts. So I was always humbled. I was always getting my ass kicked. And I feel like those two things are the only things that saved me from my own brain. Because people are not designed to be famous. That’s why kings are all tyrants. When you view the one person who gets to make all the calls, absolute power, it corrupts absolutely. It’s a common expression, right?
MILEY CYRUS: Yes, absolutely.
JOE ROGAN: That happens with famous people.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m trying to have a good relationship with the power and feel a healthy dynamic towards it.
JOE ROGAN: The way you’re describing it is perfect. The Ellen situation, I don’t know Ellen, she’s probably a nice lady, but she’s in control. She’s in control of all these people, and they’re all scared of her. She’s like, “F* you. Where’s my team?” That kind of shit. That’s not a good place for a person to be, to have that much control over their relationship.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m really proud of myself that I don’t live in that world. And I think I could probably also mark that up to animals and how much I love them. And I think that’s what led to my veganism for a time was the fact that tonight I have to put powder on my dog’s ass. That makes me happy.
JOE ROGAN: What does powder do? I don’t get what the powder does, apparently.
Finding Balance Through Animals
MILEY CYRUS: I think it kind of just hopefully conceals in some way how disgusting. It’s very, very out there and in your face. And I think it’s more of a concealer. But I’m really happy that Kate Moss. Hey, guys. I get to say Kate Moss makes me put baby powder on her ass. Just use that as the teaser. One time, Kate Moss made me put baby powder on her ass. It’s called monkey butt.
So that makes me happy. And one of my dogs, he’s obsessed with drinking out of the pool, and so he throws up all the time, and it’s disgusting. And it honestly always makes me happy. And the one thing that I like about my dogs is that they don’t know who I am. I mean, they know that they got a good living situation. They’re probably like, “I wonder what she does for a living.” But because their life is pretty good and they get to go to other cool places also.
But yeah, my dogs don’t know who I am, so I like that. And the cats scratch the shit out of me all the time. And the pigs are horrible. They bite my ankles. I love it about them.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, well, I bet that’s one of the ways you achieve balance is through animals. That’s probably why you like them so much, because they don’t treat you like you’re an alien. They just treat you like your mama.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly. And yeah, their appreciation and gratitude level is something that I aspire to kind of recreate in my own life. I love how gracious they are.
JOE ROGAN: I really respect the way you’re looking at things.
MILEY CYRUS: Thank you.
JOE ROGAN: I like the fact that you know that you’re in this weird situation and you actually feel guilty for it. I don’t think it’s necessarily good to feel guilty, but the fact that you do is strong because it shows that you’re conscious of how weird it is.
Working Through Guilt
MILEY CYRUS: And we’ve been working on my guilt a lot. And what’s funny is I always want to cancel therapy when nothing’s going on, which I guess is when we kind of need it, but I always want to cancel it. And then we start talking about guilt and we got to work on your guilt and whatever. But I’m like, “I only call you out of guilt. I don’t want to do therapy, and I don’t even want to talk to you about what’s going on in my life.”
So we can’t get rid of it too much because guilt makes us do good things. I feel the same way about fear and anxiety also.
JOE ROGAN: I do, too.
MILEY CYRUS: Healthy fear. Healthy anxiety.
JOE ROGAN: That’s one of the things I like about weed.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s the mask.
JOE ROGAN: I like to get scared.
MILEY CYRUS: You like to get scared?
JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah. I like to see the devil as my friend Joe.
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t like that anymore.
JOE ROGAN: I like to see the devil.
MILEY CYRUS: I do not like that.
JOE ROGAN: I like to be paranoid. I like to freak out.
The Ayahuasca Experience
MILEY CYRUS: I had a very great ayahuasca experience that I saw some things. I guess people take ayahuasca a couple of times, end up seeing these snakes that end up taking you underground. And you kind of meet Mama ayahuasca and she walks you through everything.
So ayahuasca, the woman that I was seeing, it was at the time where I just kind of started to become really dedicated to the veganism. And she reached down my throat and pulled out every dead animal I had ever eaten and made me throw it up. But I didn’t see the animal that it was. I didn’t see a cow or pig or chicken. I saw me puking up all the animals. I saw me picking up seals, puking up a seal. Not fun. Elephants, all these different animals. And I would see all the animals coming out of my body.
And you’re not supposed to have a companion in your ayahuasca trip. It’s supposed to be just about you. But I, you know, like my life, the good perks. I got special treatment. I could have my dog. So I had my dog and I held my dog the entire time. And I had a really, really intense trip. But since then, I haven’t really loved getting high as much as I used to. It unlocked something. Now I’m like, “I just don’t want to puke up seals again.”
JOE ROGAN: Well, that sounds like you were dealing with some sort of personal guilt.
MILEY CYRUS: I was dealing with guilt, yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Not just guilt for being famous, but also guilt for killing other lives to feed your own life that you already feel guilty for. It’s all psychologically connected. What you see through psychedelics is, it’s not just the psychedelic, it’s what you bring to the psychedelic. That’s why set and setting is so important.
MILEY CYRUS: Well, you’re supposed to be sober, I think, two weeks before you actually do the ayahuasca, which I was the only one that didn’t do that.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, I don’t know if that’s necessary.
The Transformative Power of Experience
MILEY CYRUS: I got a little crazy.
JOE ROGAN: DMT will take you there no matter what.
MILEY CYRUS: I’ve done some good DMT. All my personalities grabbed me one time on DMT. All my personalities I saw. And then I was like, I saw me as a really ugly crier and then me screaming, yelling at people. And it was nice as I was sitting on the couch, as it started to hit me. They almost kind of accordioned back into my body and all my personality.
JOE ROGAN: The thing about all this craziness and the manic behavior and all of your guilt and all of your anxiety, there’s something that comes out in your music. There’s some of that that comes out in this energy when you sing, and I don’t know if it would be there without it.
I think all brilliant artists are crazy. I’ve never met one that isn’t. There’s something that they have when they’re bottling it inside, and whether it’s they’re playing the guitar, whether they’re singing. When they sing, it comes out.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: You know, and when you sing, it comes out.
MILEY CYRUS: But it’s kind of, that’s how, it’s kind of new also. It’s coming out in a whole other way. You know, I look at different, I’m very different. And I honestly feel like my voice changed a lot after the fire. I could sing better after the fire. In some way. It’s almost like it unleashed something.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: It did. And maybe that’s what it is. Maybe I earned it. Maybe that’s what it is, because I noticed that my voice got better as I…
JOE ROGAN: Well, it’s also probably you’re more comfortable with who you are having gone through that.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: The thing about having a really, not an easy life, but a privileged life, you’ve had so many doors open to you and so much wealth and so much success. When you do something hard or something hard happens to you, at least you go, okay, I got through that. That was real.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: I earned that. I earned my point of view, my place of peace after a storm and every storm that you go through. That’s why when you listen to Johnny Cash sing “Hurt,” man, I mean, that is, how old was he when he did that cover? He’s like 80.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. That’s one of those years.
JOE ROGAN: God d*mn. You hear that voice, and it’s like…
MILEY CYRUS: There’s something that gives me chills thinking about it.
JOE ROGAN: There’s something that comes through in the music, in the voice. There’s something that comes through in someone’s art when they’ve experienced things.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: And this is what you’re getting, and this is what your emotions and all that sh*t that bothers you and freaks you out and all the chaos when you get in front of that microphone that comes out.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. I guess your life, it’s almost like, it’s kind of art in the way of kind. I feel like I’m always doing performance art in some way, even in my personal life.
JOE ROGAN: That’s the problem, right?
MILEY CYRUS: That’s scary.
JOE ROGAN: It’s hard to just be.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s scary.
JOE ROGAN: It’s hard to be in the moment and just be. You always feel like you’re putting on a show.
MILEY CYRUS: It is.
JOE ROGAN: Well, it’s because your whole life, you developed putting on a show.
Navigating Fame and Technology
MILEY CYRUS: And we talked, you know, obviously, I think a little bit about kind of in the beginning of this, talking about technology and how it’s changed things for me and streaming and all these things. But it’s also given everyone a voice, the people that don’t need one sometimes to say the things that they say. It gives them a lot of power.
And you’ve got to have a lot of restraints. Listen, you’re sitting with someone that loves to do drugs. I can’t take drugs anymore. I want to, but because there’s a repercussion, I won’t. That’s the same way I feel about looking at sh*t and looking at Daily Mail and looking at these things. I won’t do it. Not because it’s not tempting, because in a way, that gives you a rush, too, right? You look at it, you get those adrenalines and the butterflies.
I’m someone that likes to get high. It gets you high. Drama. So I try not to watch any dramatic TV or things like that, because I’m also kind of a parrot. I’m a sponge. I never grew out of that. You know, kids, they hear something, they can do it. I’ve always been like that. You show me once, I can do it right now. But that’s why I shouldn’t watch dramatic television.
JOE ROGAN: Well, that’s why I always feel weird when girls are really into those true crime shows about rape and murder. Shut that off.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. No, it’s not.
JOE ROGAN: Jesus Christ.
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t think it’s really, really that healthy. That’s why I love RuPaul’s Drag Race. It’s like, nothing really harmful is going to come out of just slapping some wigs on and calling it a day. They do death drops in a whole other way than what you guys do out there on the mats. This is some intense sh*t.
RuPaul’s Drag Race and Finding Joy
JOE ROGAN: I have never watched.
MILEY CYRUS: You never seen a death drop?
JOE ROGAN: What does RuPaul’s Drag Race do? What do they do?
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, my God. What? This is crazy. It’s my favorite. Okay, honestly, RuPaul, when I said earlier I’m not religious, that’s a lie. I am RuPaul’s Batarian. I f*ck with RuPaul. RuPaul is God. RuPaul lives by, “If you can’t love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love anybody else?”
JOE ROGAN: Can I get a ranch in Wyoming? I love that.
MILEY CYRUS: Got it all figured out. RuPaul Mamaroo, she’s my life. And the reason I love to watch her so much is really, there’s this thing that they do on the show, and it’s called the Reading Room. It’s called the library.
JOE ROGAN: What is the show? Because I know the name of the show, but I don’t even know what it is.
MILEY CYRUS: So the drag queens from all over the country, and now they’re going all over the world. They’ve got RuPaul’s Drag Race everywhere.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, sh*t.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, yeah. It’s all over the world. I watch RuPaul’s Korea, RuPaul’s Canada. We watch everything. Oh, yeah. Oh, this is one of my favorite. Alyssa Edwards. I think I might even be in the audience.
JOE ROGAN: You know who that is?
MILEY CYRUS: Yes. That’s what I’m telling you.
JOE ROGAN: Look at that guy.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, my God.
JOE ROGAN: Look at the way they’re clapping.
MILEY CYRUS: I was here.
JOE ROGAN: Look at her. The way they’re clapping is amazing.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, my God.
JOE ROGAN: Whoa.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes.
JOE ROGAN: Kick off the cheese, Latrice.
MILEY CYRUS: See, I know who’s going to kick up. Yeah, I know. Latrice.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God. That’s a big person. She’s doing that kind of a score.
MILEY CYRUS: She’s got called “Big Girl.” And she says, “Wait, come over here and pile some more food up on this plate. I ain’t going to the gym, btch. I ain’t losing no weight. Look at me. I’m sickening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m sickening. Ooh. I may be fat, btch, but you’re ugly and I can lose weight.”
JOE ROGAN: Oh, sh*t.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m right there.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m in the audience. So are my two friends that are here with me today. Oh, my God, she’s so sickening. Kennedy, you know, Kennedy is. I know every single one.
JOE ROGAN: They all do the same move. They drop down and do the split.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I think when I’m watching your shows, too. You know, all the same stuff.
JOE ROGAN: But this move of the splits, they all do this. That’s the move.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s the money move.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, the money move is, look at…
MILEY CYRUS: How she got money in her hand. Look, they’re throwing it at her.
JOE ROGAN: Throwing money at her.
MILEY CYRUS: Split, too.
JOE ROGAN: Bam.
MILEY CYRUS: She’s an ocean.
JOE ROGAN: Call this show “I Do the Splits.”
MILEY CYRUS: Death Drop. I got a highlight video of all these.
JOE ROGAN: It’s called Best Death Drops.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, I’ve seen this one.
JOE ROGAN: So is that death drop when you do the splits?
MILEY CYRUS: That was a death drop and split. That’s also a very, that’s, oh, here she goes. Yeah. Ooh kah. Ooh, y’all.
JOE ROGAN: Bam. So is that a death drop?
MILEY CYRUS: No, that was a split.
JOE ROGAN: Okay. What is the difference?
MILEY CYRUS: Death Drop. You’ll see. It’s when you go from standing. Let’s see. No, that’s a split.
JOE ROGAN: All splits.
MILEY CYRUS: You got to find death drops. That’s not a death drop. Look up, it’s season, I believe maybe 10. Or no, season nine. Laganja Estranja.
JOE ROGAN: Laganja Estranja. There you go. What about Jinx?
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, she just does a bad split.
JOE ROGAN: Bit me that. She needs a little bit.
MILEY CYRUS: That wasn’t great flexibility. We love Monet. She’s Miss Congeniality.
JOE ROGAN: Monet needs a little bit of flexibility.
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t love her so much. I’m okay.
JOE ROGAN: That’s funny. They have to go all the way.
MILEY CYRUS: This is my favorite. Oh, so she’s got her own show. She actually did the VMAs with me.
JOE ROGAN: Now you have to do the full split to be taken seriously.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, there. That’s a good one.
JOE ROGAN: That’s a good one.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s a good one.
JOE ROGAN: Serious split.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m clapping.
JOE ROGAN: You can’t have a bent knee. Is that disrespectful?
MILEY CYRUS: I mean, you’re not going to get any cash on the stage.
JOE ROGAN: Oh. If your knee is bent, it’s not good.
MILEY CYRUS: No, that’s Laganja. She’s got the best one.
JOE ROGAN: Boom.
MILEY CYRUS: That was her big split, but she’s going to probably do another death drop there. Right here. This is a real death drop right here. Ready, go. Yeah. That’s a death drop.
JOE ROGAN: That’s a death drop. That looks like a good way to blow out your ACL. Look at that right knee. That don’t look good.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, man.
JOE ROGAN: If I was doing commentary on her…
MILEY CYRUS: Here we go.
JOE ROGAN: She’s going to be hurt.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Boom. That is terrible for your joint.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s got to be awful.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, look at her knee.
MILEY CYRUS: Here she goes.
JOE ROGAN: That’s terrible. Okay, here we go.
MILEY CYRUS: Bang. Michaels.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, that’s a full side split. Look at that. My goodness.
MILEY CYRUS: So when you ask me why my hips hurt so bad, it’s practicing this. No. Oh, I don’t.
JOE ROGAN: Death drop.
MILEY CYRUS: I do not death drop.
JOE ROGAN: That will fck you up. I mean, that’s what fcked Prince’s hip up.
MILEY CYRUS: No, I don’t do that. I tried it one time at G-A-Y, and it was worth it.
JOE ROGAN: What is G-A-Y?
MILEY CYRUS: My favorite gay club in London.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, boy. They just f*cking nail it on the head.
MILEY CYRUS: G-A-Y. Call the club Gay. It’s so gay. Just called Gay.
JOE ROGAN: Why not?
MILEY CYRUS: That’s iconic.
JOE ROGAN: What did you say? What are you wooing? What’s that? What happened?
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, this one’s really crazy.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, Jesus.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, no. Oh, no.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God. That’s the craziest death drop ever.
MILEY CYRUS: Aces.
JOE ROGAN: So that’s. Wow. That’s a brain damage death drop. That’s a death drop from five feet up.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s crazy. Honestly. But I feel like I’ve come alive since watching this. What it does to me on a level that I just love it so much.
JOE ROGAN: Are they scoring them?
MILEY CYRUS: Well, usually in the ball, which is what you’re doing. You’re bringing it to the ball like you’re doing Runway. Usually it’s a 1 through 10, 10 being the best. And if you say “tens, tens, tens across the board.”
JOE ROGAN: So what’s happening here?
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, this is a really good performance that I love. And these are the other pit crew.
JOE ROGAN: Pit crew.
MILEY CYRUS: They’re kind of like the bitches that bring out the shit. And they’re kind of, they kind of get. Yeah, exactly.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I like about the show, too. And I think all the men kind of like having to be the background dancers.
JOE ROGAN: Outrageous.
MILEY CYRUS: She’s, her name’s Alaska Thunderf*.
JOE ROGAN: Alaska Thunderf*.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. She’s one of my favorite.
JOE ROGAN: This might be my new favorite show.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m telling you. Alaska.
JOE ROGAN: I might have to start watching Alaska.
MILEY CYRUS: Thunderf* is absolutely my favorite queen.
JOE ROGAN: Jesus.
MILEY CYRUS: I love kitty girl.
JOE ROGAN: I think you’ve already had three or four favorite queens just enough.
MILEY CYRUS: Well, Alaska is the one that I love her personal music.
JOE ROGAN: What about Alyssa? You turn your back on Alaska?
MILEY CYRUS: No, Alyssa’s my favorite performer. Oh, Alyssa is my favorite performer slash dancer.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, I don’t. And Alaska.
MILEY CYRUS: Alaska’s got amazing music.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, so Alaska Thunderf*’s a musician.
MILEY CYRUS: Her big hit single is called “Your Makeup Is Terrible.”
JOE ROGAN: I might have to watch this show.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s really good. That’s Detox.
JOE ROGAN: Detox. That’s hilarious.
MILEY CYRUS: She grew up hanging out with her. She worked at Beecher’s Madhouse, which was like a freaky club.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah. I met that dude before. I met him at the Comedy Store.
MILEY CYRUS: So she, I end up, I kind of, that was like my, you know, Studio 54, like, that era. That’s what I did. So she was there. She was one of the performers. So I know her.
JOE ROGAN: That is hilarious. God damn it. So is this show like this every week?
MILEY CYRUS: Yes.
JOE ROGAN: So every week is RuPaul, and until.
MILEY CYRUS: There’s a new episode, I watch the same one every day.
JOE ROGAN: And who are the folks on the panel?
MILEY CYRUS: So usually there’s a guest judge and then his best friend Michelle Visage, and that’s Todrick Hall, who’s a big choreographer and artist.
JOE ROGAN: Hilarious.
MILEY CYRUS: I know a lot about this.
JOE ROGAN: You do.
MILEY CYRUS: There they are.
JOE ROGAN: How often you watch this, like, your tour?
MILEY CYRUS: I’m so thirsty for new episodes. I’m watching RuPaul Canada right now. RuPaul’s not even on it. It’s just a spin off.
JOE ROGAN: What? What?
MILEY CYRUS: RuPaul Canada, if it’s a spin off, she’s a genius. She’s the new McDonald’s. She got it.
JOE ROGAN: So she just said, listen, I’m just going to put my name on this and just spread it out to Thailand and put it in Iceland.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, yeah, everywhere. Everywhere around the world. They’re really fun to watch. But without Ru, it’s really not the same, because she drops knowledge, knowledge, knowledge.
JOE ROGAN: Like, what kind of knowledge?
RuPaul’s Wisdom on Self-Love
MILEY CYRUS: When I do feel guilty about all my, you know, kind of what we talked about of just when I start feeling that guilt, and I feel guilt that when I tell someone, I can’t do this because I need to focus on me, or I need to take the time that I’m cooking for you to be using that time for my meditation, and I become that person. I just give so much, and I just love that she says, “If you can’t love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love anybody else?” I really love that.
JOE ROGAN: Good point.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s a really good point. I’m trying to, that needs to be tattooed on my brain.
JOE ROGAN: Well, RuPaul’s also been around a long time. Also a really great year, ups and downs.
MILEY CYRUS: And look what she created from a world that, I mean, still, even in 2020, that’s just not acceptable. I live in Nashville, Tennessee. None of my friends in Nashville, they all don’t know what I’m watching. And I can’t believe that. And it’s just the way that she’s won. I think she’s up for 14 Emmys this year.
JOE ROGAN: What was her, what did she break out with? What was the first thing that she got popular with?
MILEY CYRUS: Booty. What’s her movie? Something Booty.
JOE ROGAN: Something.
MILEY CYRUS: You could look it up. RuPaul Booty. I’m going to be so annoyed because I have the DVD.
JOE ROGAN: Was she famous for a song?
MILEY CYRUS: Yes. “You better work, supermodel.”
JOE ROGAN: Work it, girl. Keep it a 12. Right, right, right. What year was that?
MILEY CYRUS: Like, what is it, 80s? 90s?
JOE ROGAN: That might have been right around the time your dad popped.
MILEY CYRUS: 90s. Why he didn’t collab with Ru, I’ll never understand.
JOE ROGAN: That would have been, that would have pushed him over the top.
MILEY CYRUS: I really would have.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: So RuPaul Drag Race. Remarkable longevity for RuPaul. Right?
MILEY CYRUS: I’m telling you, RuPaul is the only one that, in my book, compares to Dolly.
JOE ROGAN: That is crazy. If you really stop and think about that, that is 30 years.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s her. Oh, wow.
JOE ROGAN: There you go.
MILEY CYRUS: Look how beautiful.
JOE ROGAN: Look at the exaggerated femininity that drag queens embrace. I love that aspect of it.
Painting for the Gods
MILEY CYRUS: That’s called, that’s called painting for the gods.
JOE ROGAN: Painting for the gods.
MILEY CYRUS: Painting for the gods. Show me painting for the gods. I’m not painted for the gods right now. So when you’re painted for the gods, that means your makeup is, you have drawn on that face.
JOE ROGAN: Is that a drag queen expression? Painted for the gods? You okay to say drag queen?
MILEY CYRUS: Drag queen’s all good.
JOE ROGAN: Okay. That one hung around.
MILEY CYRUS: We love drag queen.
JOE ROGAN: You know what I’m saying? There’s certain expressions from.
MILEY CYRUS: There’s even a drag queen on the show that is a straight male that just does drag.
JOE ROGAN: Wait, what?
MILEY CYRUS: There’s a straight male on there, I’m sure.
JOE ROGAN: I bet you could talk him into some gay stuff.
MILEY CYRUS: He’s a straight male.
JOE ROGAN: Just got to get him drunk.
MILEY CYRUS: Sure.
JOE ROGAN: He’s straight.
MILEY CYRUS: And not all of us.
JOE ROGAN: He is. Oh, yeah, for sure.
MILEY CYRUS: I believe.
JOE ROGAN: Well, he’s probably really good at it, right? Really good as a drag queen.
MILEY CYRUS: He knows what’s sexy. He knows what he wants.
JOE ROGAN: Right, Right. I love that.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: That was explained to me about some men who love women, but like to dress as women. There’s a kink. They like to be.
Miley’s Drag King Persona: BJ
MILEY CYRUS: I actually dressed as a man for RuPaul’s Drag Race. My name was BJ. If we can show you that, because I’m kind of like a hot dude. I look a lot like Justin Bieber. People tell me that all the time. When I, if I have a little scruff and a side swoop, I go Bieber really quick.
JOE ROGAN: Really?
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. But my name was BJ on the show and I dress as a guy and I kind of thought it was kinky, so.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Do you feel like a bad girl when you dress like a boy?
MILEY CYRUS: No. This is 2020. Playing with gender roles is just so not, there’s no shock value anymore.
JOE ROGAN: No shock value.
MILEY CYRUS: There’s no shock value. Not in my community.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, in your community of drag?
MILEY CYRUS: In my community. And painted for the gods. We’re painted for the gods. We’re beat. That’s like you’re beating your mug. That means you’ve pounded that shit into your face. Even if you took a wipe and went like this, you’d still look like a woman. You have.
JOE ROGAN: That’s what it’s called. You beat your mug.
MILEY CYRUS: Yes. You should see me. If I had my brush in here, I’d show you how you do it. You just pound it.
JOE ROGAN: There it goes.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, yeah, there I am.
JOE ROGAN: There you are.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, yeah. So they can’t see me. I’m in a double sided mirror. So they just see themselves, but I see them.
JOE ROGAN: That’s you?
MILEY CYRUS: Yep.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, that’s hilarious. That is the fakest looking beard I’ve ever seen in my life. That’s like Team America, World Police. Remember when the dude had to put on a fake? Remember the puppet put the fake wig on and the fake wig.
MILEY CYRUS: It didn’t work very well. They recognized me right away. But I swear it’s the voice. But maybe it was the beard.
JOE ROGAN: It’s your neck.
MILEY CYRUS: My, in the beard. My neck.
JOE ROGAN: You’ve got a girl’s neck too.
MILEY CYRUS: Femme.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. You have a girl’s neck. There’s no way you’re a guy. It’s not even physically possible.
MILEY CYRUS: Are you sure about that?
JOE ROGAN: 100%. Yeah. If I saw you, if you were with the fake beard on your face.
MILEY CYRUS: You would know.
JOE ROGAN: And then the neck, I’d be like, that’s a chick. 100%.
MILEY CYRUS: Damn.
JOE ROGAN: Sorry.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s okay.
JOE ROGAN: Some of those drag queens, they could pass as a large woman.
MILEY CYRUS: So I brought a scarf. What if I wear this?
JOE ROGAN: Oh, okay. Cover your neck. Yeah. You need a hoodie or something. Zip it up and put it over the top. I think you’re a young boy.
MILEY CYRUS: Hoodies aren’t fashion.
JOE ROGAN: Hoodies aren’t fashion. No.
MILEY CYRUS: Hoodies are fashion. Hoodies are fashion. I like wearing them in my own time. Just don’t want to be.
JOE ROGAN: You wear hoodies on your own time? Why not?
Dolly Parton’s Fashion Rules
MILEY CYRUS: Because I’m Dolly Parton’s goddaughter. She would actually shame me to the end of the earth.
JOE ROGAN: So are there rules?
MILEY CYRUS: I’ve done a lot of things. I’m in here telling you about my ayahuasca trips. This is all fine and dandy with Dolly. Let’s not even start talking about hoodies.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, okay. You know, Dolly won’t let you wear hoodies.
MILEY CYRUS: I mean, Dolly just, it’s not Dolly approved. This earth needs to be Dolly approved. Telling you.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God. That’s so funny.
MILEY CYRUS: Dolly is everything.
Dolly Parton’s Influence and Identity
JOE ROGAN: Somebody had a funny tweet about Dolly Parton once. They said, “I just saw a picture of Dolly Parton when she was young.” And the tweet said, “What the f* did Jolene look like?” I want to know who this Jolene chick is, right? She must have been ridiculous.
MILEY CYRUS: She must have been a f*ing 150. I mean, there was no one more beautiful than Dolly.
JOE ROGAN: She was about as hot as it gets.
MILEY CYRUS: And I love the way that she created her identity, too. She created her identity from the town whore that everyone made fun of. And she was like, “I was looking at them like, this is an entire brand. I loved it.” And she goes, “I just tried to recreate that.”
JOE ROGAN: That’s hilarious.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: And she also just was so nice.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, my gosh.
JOE ROGAN: It just came through in everything she did. It’s like she was so likable, man.
MILEY CYRUS: She brings merch everywhere. And she will get from the bottom to the top, whoever worked on that set today, getting a Dolly hat, signed, getting donuts delivered. She’s just as cool as it gets. I mean, I do think that that’s a big reason, too, that I’ve been able to, not even because she’s going to be mad, but you just don’t want to disappoint Dolly.
The Importance of Musical Lineage
JOE ROGAN: Well, it’s just you are very fortunate to be connected to this lineage. The fact that you’re tight with Dolly. F*ing, if you’re a young country singer, a man, and you know Willie Nelson, holy shit.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: You’re tight with Willie. You got to cultivate that relationship.
MILEY CYRUS: That was kind of my dad with George Jones. That’s who I grew up around my whole life. George was my dad’s right hand. It was really painful for him when he died, because that was my dad’s just stake in the grass.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, for sure. There’s something about that, right? This old guard that nurtures the young people coming up, that relationship.
MILEY CYRUS: And I really want to be that person if I make it through the treacherous path, which is us.
JOE ROGAN: You’re going to make it.
MILEY CYRUS: I think so.
JOE ROGAN: If anybody’s going to make it that’s gone through what you’ve gone through, the way you’re looking at it is, look, it ain’t easy, kid, but you can do it. You can do it.
MILEY CYRUS: Well, I would want to be that way with the next artist, and I still am. Even from my position, I never like to see, say, or seem like I think I know something that a new artist doesn’t. But I’ve been doing it now 15 years. My show came out when I was 12. I’m 27, going to be 28 in a month.
JOE ROGAN: It’s not even about whether or not you know something that they don’t. It’s just what you know.
MILEY CYRUS: And I’ve had a long time.
JOE ROGAN: It’s almost irrelevant what they don’t know. It’s what you know.
Support from Stevie Nicks and Managing Pain
MILEY CYRUS: And I just feel like, I never knew jealousy or competition through Dolly, through Joan, through Stevie. That’s why when I reach out to Stevie, she says, “I know that this Corona thing’s going on, but can we sit six feet apart in my backyard and talk? I just want to be there for you.” That’s what she wrote last time.
And it’s like, going through what I’ve kind of been going over the last two years, all these, I think, honestly, some of the physical pain is growing pains. I feel like some of the growth that I’ve had, stress and quickly just stretching beyond, beyond. And I just saw lack of being stable.
JOE ROGAN: In your mind, and the tension that stuff manifests itself in back injuries all the time. People always have weird back pains that are related to just their life being all f*ed up.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, you just…
JOE ROGAN: You’re always tense.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, I am. I know. My back cracks like crazy. Everything. Down to when I’m asked what hurts, I literally feel embarrassed to say, from the end of my toe to the top of my head, pretty much hurts a lot of the time. But I’m working on that pain management. And I do CBD.
JOE ROGAN: CBD is awesome. Yeah, it’s gigantic. Love it. But for you, I can’t say this enough, you need rigorous exercise. You need something really hard, so when it’s done, you’re f*ing spent.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Just laying on the ground, can’t breathe, puddle of sweat, that type of shit. You need to exercise the demons.
MILEY CYRUS: I have a seven month German shepherd at home, so that seems like a good, if anyone’s going to be my running partner, that’s who’s going to put me through it.
JOE ROGAN: But you need someone to push you. You need to purge the demons. You got demons?
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, yeah, they’re in there 100%. But again, you don’t want to, you got to hold on to them a little bit.
MILEY CYRUS: I know. I like to use them to my advantage sometimes.
The Role of Demons in Art
JOE ROGAN: Music, man. There’s something about the demons that come out in the music. I mean, look, that’s always why the great artist, think about Robert Johnson, right? They even thought he sold his soul to learn how to play blues the way he did. And it’s because the f*ing life experience came out in his music.
You need both of those. You can’t be some person who just lives in a f*ing monastery and breathes in and breathes out all day and then put out amazing art.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: You have to have pain and life.
MILEY CYRUS: I know that. And I think that’s, one of our words we’ve used pretty consistently today is balance. I think that’s pretty much got to be my mantra.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Well, for you, I mean, you are born into this treacherous path. You have this crazy position that you find yourself thrust into where you’re very famous at a very early age. And also there’s these weird expectations because you’re famous for a Disney show, which is even crazier. And then post Disney show, it’s a whole…
MILEY CYRUS: And then that got erased by craziness and wild and being a provocateur. And so now I feel like I’m breaking out of another role in a way.
JOE ROGAN: You’re becoming just yourself instead of a rebellious person who’s trying to escape the sort of the boundaries of your persona.
Reclaiming the Music
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, well, that’s why I wanted, in my music video, I have me with the microphone, with the microphone stand. And the reason why that was so important was, I’m not just fing getting naked anymore and swinging around this. It’s about the music comes first. And I feel like people are very visual and if you can hold the fing microphone in your hand and say, “This is who I am. This comes first. By the way, I don’t come without this.”
At the VMAs, they tried to get me to get rid of my microphone for something that I’m going to be doing. And I said, “F*, no.” What do you think? I can’t be Britney Spears with the headset and the snake. What’s important? I don’t want the snake. I don’t want the gag.
And there was actually even some comments that day about, it was just an interesting conversation in regards to lighting because I’ve been kind of learning a lot from directors. I didn’t go to film school, but I have been put through that in that way. So I directed the last video, and that’s what I look forward to doing in the next 10 years. I’d love to write and direct and work on film and that way.
And so now I have a better understanding of cameras and lighting operation. And so I was just asking some questions about, not even on some diva shit, like, “I only want to get shot from this side,” whatever. I wanted the lights to be turned off and that the lighting of the room to be just lighting me. So no key light, no beauty light. And beauty light is always used on women.
And I said, “Turn the f*ing lights off. You would never tell Travis Scott or Adam Levine that he couldn’t turn the beauty light off. I want this red lighting.” They said, “Okay, okay, we’ll do it. Same thing that we would do with the guys.” That’s what I want.
And then something that I was doing, which I can’t say, but something that I was doing for the VMAs, my bracelets kept getting caught and all this shit. And they said, “You wanted to be treated like a guy and lit like a guy. We wouldn’t be dealing with this if a guy was doing it.” And I said, “Well, a guy wouldn’t be doing this because a guy doesn’t sell your show with sex the way that I’m going to. And I’m aware of that. I know about what.” I had these conversations with the directors talking to me.
JOE ROGAN: That’s a ridiculous conversation.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s a ridiculous conversation. Also embarrassing, because once you see what happens on the show, you’ll understand more if you see it. But it might be hard not to. If you take walks like I do, you might see it whether you want to or not. If I usually walk down the street and there’s, I don’t know, maybe people sell magazines I don’t know about. Jamie will pull it up or you’ll see it at some point.
JOE ROGAN: You guys can see it, he’ll show me.
Pop Culture and Escapism
MILEY CYRUS: So, yes. And so they’re asking a lot of questions about that and, well, how long is glam going to take and all this stuff? And I was like, I mean, I can’t really nail it in enough, too. It’s like, I did come from the world of Dolly Parton, and I love pop culture for entertainment and escapism.
And again, we’re joking about the hoodie conversation, but I mean, for me, there’s nights where I don’t do that. At Chris Cornell, I had on a pair of black pants and a f*ing Chris Cornell T-shirt. That’s what it was. The VMAs is a pop culture show celebrating pop culture. And I wanted to bring, especially in this time of COVID-19, all these at home performance, I want to give my fans escapism. Good old pop culture. This is surrealism.
JOE ROGAN: How hard is it to deal with people that are directing you like that? How hard is it to deal with other people and their vision and they’re talking and they’re this and they’re that, when you are just trying to get out what’s in your head and what your vision is?
Being Firm and Kind
MILEY CYRUS: I get it done. I get it done. But the balance that I found is firm and kind. I don’t lose my kindness, but also don’t become a mat. But I am firm about what I want, but in a way that, you might expect someone might say, “Man, she was a diva. She was a bitch.”
But it’s again, it’s like, okay, have the Weeknd come in here and say the same thing. And you would say him, or Kanye is a creative God. And it’s like, come on, why am I not getting that? I’m a creative mastermind, but I’m becoming a bitch. It’s like, no one would ever say that about Kanye West choosing what lighting he wants on a performance.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, it’s such a delicate balance, too, right? Because when someone’s as popular as you, you know what the f* you want to do. And if this person who you’re using as a director, if you don’t have a deep relationship with them, that’s…
MILEY CYRUS: Why I started directing my own shit.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah.
Creating Music Videos and Relationships
MILEY CYRUS: And that’s why I loved making my last video so much. And directing it was because I thought about my scenes almost like a relationship. You’re having a relationship with it. When it’s over, it’s over. What’s painful isn’t the relationship. It’s that when it’s done, you holding on for that extra however long you try to make it work, something that’s not working. That’s what I did on the video.
And that’s what I hated when I was a kid, you know, from directors not knowing what they want and then getting frustrated with the child for not performing properly. It’s like, but you’re not communicating and I’m a child and you’re an adult and you’re not communicating properly. So you’re working me into the ground to get something that you don’t know what you want. And that was always really frustrating to me.
And I think that’s why now a non-negotiable in my relationship or dating life is you better know what you want. Because I’m just not interested in taking another 10 years like I did with my first love, figuring that out.
The Creative Process
JOE ROGAN: When you’re doing these, like when you’re putting together music, do you have anybody that, like if you’re doing an album or you have a song, do you collaborate with people? Would you write the songs entirely on your own and bring them to other musicians? How do you construct something?
MILEY CYRUS: It’s been different. So on Bangers, which I kind of think my career as a solo artist, I guess kind of started there. I mean, not really. When I started working, you know, on my very first, first record and it was called Breakout and it was because I was kind of breaking out of the character that I was.
JOE ROGAN: How long ago was this?
MILEY CYRUS: Like 2007, I guess maybe something like that.
JOE ROGAN: Crazy. 2007 years ago. Holy shit.
MILEY CYRUS: 2007. I already had two records out already, but they were as Hannah Montana.
JOE ROGAN: So you were 14.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m 27. Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: That’s bananas.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
Life on the Road
JOE ROGAN: Okay. So when you’re on Hannah Montana and—
MILEY CYRUS: I already had two albums that were like number one and done all the things. And so then I had this pressure.
JOE ROGAN: How much were you working?
MILEY CYRUS: Every single day.
JOE ROGAN: Every Sunday too?
MILEY CYRUS: Sunday. Every Sunday because I wanted to.
JOE ROGAN: Jesus Christ.
MILEY CYRUS: Sunday because I wanted to all day. I remember one time I came home and my dad almost didn’t let me go back on the road because I was so thin and he was like, “What have you been eating?” I’m like, “Turkey cheese lunchables,” you know? And he’s like, “Holy shit.”
JOE ROGAN: Who’s taking care of you when you’re on the road if it’s not your dad?
MILEY CYRUS: My grandma. My grandma and my mom. My mom has been my—like, my mom is the reason I’m sitting here.
JOE ROGAN: So your mom and your grandma would come with you on the road, and you would just go town to town, arena to arena. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Eat, sleep, wake up. There you go. Here’s the mic. You look beautiful. Go to school. Oh, skip school.
MILEY CYRUS: I did school in the morning.
JOE ROGAN: What kind of school you doing?
MILEY CYRUS: I had my teacher on the road with me. Jesus was the best. Who I loved and loved love.
JOE ROGAN: But no kids.
MILEY CYRUS: What do you mean? No, no. No friends, no other kids. Just my little sister and my little brother.
JOE ROGAN: How weird is that?
MILEY CYRUS: That was pretty weird. It made me—it made my sister’s life a little difficult also, because her idea of like, success is completely blown out of proportion also.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah.
Family and Fame
MILEY CYRUS: And my brother, too. But my brother is very simple, and I love him so much. And he’ll probably be listening to this. And my brother just has his chickens and his ducks, and he’s in Nashville, and he’s in, you know, small little place, and he’s living more—I sometimes wonder if he’s the smartest of us all. I don’t know.
JOE ROGAN: Maybe has less stress.
MILEY CYRUS: He has less stress.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. That’s the thing about it.
MILEY CYRUS: But he’s also a f*ing badass talent, but he just saves it. He doesn’t want to be on that level. Like, he wants to make music because he loves it. He wants the people that are interested in him to hear it. He doesn’t have the “I got to grind” mentality.
JOE ROGAN: He has some shit that’s online right now?
MILEY CYRUS: He has some shit that’s online right now.
JOE ROGAN: What’s his name?
MILEY CYRUS: Braison Cyrus.
JOE ROGAN: And how do you get—does he have an Instagram?
MILEY CYRUS: He has an Instagram. He’ll kill me. But he has a Spotify. He has a song out. And he did Fallon. And after he did Fallon, he’s like, “I don’t think I want to do that ever again.” I’m like, “What the—” He’s like, “Man, I was—that was too scary. No, thank you.” And he didn’t. I’m like, “All right.”
JOE ROGAN: Good for him.
MILEY CYRUS: He had two shows. One at CityWalk, Universal down the street. And he said no. Someone said I was fat and my hair was ugly. I’m like, “You know many times I’ve been called—” My hair is ugly. And he’s like, “I’m not ready for that.” He didn’t perform again. Then he’s like, “I’m going to try it again. Fallon.” I’m like, “You’re going to go from Universal CityWalk to Fallon? Whatever.”
So I go there and I try to change his shirt, and he’s like, “No, this is me. I’m wearing my flannel,” you know, the whole thing. So he goes out and kills it and he goes, “Uh, not for me.” Wow.
JOE ROGAN: Well, you know, maybe growing up and seeing all the crazy shit that happened to you, it’s almost like growing up around an alcoholic and never wanting to drink.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly. You can go one way or the other, right? You either become my little sister who kind of wants it, you know, and she’s got a record out that I love called The End of Everything.
JOE ROGAN: What’s her name?
MILEY CYRUS: Noah Cyrus. And it’s the most depressing EP you’ll ever listen to. She’s 20 years old.
JOE ROGAN: It’s depressing?
MILEY CYRUS: She’s emo. She’s like an emo kid.
JOE ROGAN: Why is she emo? Maybe because she was on the road.
MILEY CYRUS: She has a song where she says, “My sister’s like sunshine and it’ll follow her wherever she goes. But I’m more like a rain cloud,” you know? It’s like she’s really got this idea of me. She needs to go to the doctor. She is. We’re all at the doctor a lot. We have like a salaried doctor that just—
JOE ROGAN: Oh, boy.
MILEY CYRUS: We got to deal with that. Yeah, she’s dealing with it. She’s dealing with it. But she’s only 20, so I worry about it.
JOE ROGAN: It’s the hardest age for kids today, too. It’s so hard.
MILEY CYRUS: Dude, if you don’t look like these girls on Instagram right now—
JOE ROGAN: They don’t even look like these girls.
MILEY CYRUS: I know.
The Filter Problem
JOE ROGAN: Want to see something crazy?
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, I do.
JOE ROGAN: My 10-year-old did—we were in a restaurant. She took a picture of me. My 10-year-old thinks it’s f*ing hilarious when she does this. You know where it is, Jamie, right? That—he’ll put it up on the screen. She took a picture of me and she goes, “Let me take a picture of you. Make a face.” I made this great crazy kissy face. And then she put it through this filter. That’s me.
MILEY CYRUS: No.
JOE ROGAN: Yes.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s not real.
JOE ROGAN: That’s real. That’s me. That’s me through a filter.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s not real.
JOE ROGAN: That’s me. Are you real?
MILEY CYRUS: Are you f*ing kidding me?
JOE ROGAN: That’s how bad these goddamn filters are. What’s wrong with your—I don’t know what’s happening. Okay, so that’s the original picture, right? That’s me and her at a restaurant. And that’s what came out. And meanwhile, do you know my 10-year-old, she’s f*ing hilarious. She thinks it’s so funny.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s not right.
JOE ROGAN: That is how fed up these goddamn filters are. It’s just a filter on an app. That’s why these girls are so insecure, because they think all these people that they see online are perfect, but every one of those bitches is using filters. All of them. All of them, all of them. And even people that I’m friends with that contacted me, like, “This is crazy. I use filters.” But that—f, that’s f*ing—
MILEY CYRUS: So I don’t have a filter on my phone. And I need to know, though, what your daughter is using. Like, I don’t even understand this technology.
JOE ROGAN: It’s trickery. It’s witchcraft. It’s f*ing trickery.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: I couldn’t believe that was real.
MILEY CYRUS: The only thing I have on my phone is where I can swipe on the Instagram story thingy and turn Paris, you know, where it kind of blurs out your pores or something. That’s all I got.
JOE ROGAN: Don’t even use that. It’s ridiculous.
MILEY CYRUS: It looks pretty good.
JOE ROGAN: No, you look great. You don’t need that shit. No, it makes you look like a cartoon. It doesn’t make you look—
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t do any of the shit.
JOE ROGAN: Girls want that. They want like, no flaws. They want everything to be like, cloudy.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s basically what it does. It makes you look like a punk.
JOE ROGAN: But that’s not good.
MILEY CYRUS: I know, I know. There’s so much unprogramming to do on me.
JOE ROGAN: There’s so much on everybody.
MILEY CYRUS: There’s so much unprogramming.
JOE ROGAN: It’s all these weird things out there that are these unrealistic expectations. Like, I’m sure you saw that Khloe Kardashian picture that looks nothing like her.
MILEY CYRUS: Where it like, goes from like, the hairline, like, nonsense.
JOE ROGAN: They used Photoshop on her. I mean, it’s like CGI. You might as well be looking at a monster movie. Like she turns into a werewolf. It’s not what—that’s not who she is.
Reality vs. Social Media
MILEY CYRUS: No, no. It’s crazy. And even like, for me, I think, you know, in my real life, I don’t wear any makeup. I don’t even—like, today someone asked me, “What do you use on your hair?” And I’m like, “Shampoo and conditioner.” Like, I don’t do anything to my hair. I don’t really do anything.
And that’s been really f*ing tough for me over the last few months, too, because I don’t know why. I guess I think as that keeps happening, like, as these technology things keep happening on Instagram, these filters keep getting better and better. I’m compared to the people altering themselves either physically with all these things you can do and lasers and all the shit, or to the filters.
And I’ve had a really hard time with that. And I think it’s hard for me. The other day, you know, I get papped walking around my neighborhood in like, a really shitty, dirty Fleetwood Mac T-shirt that I’ve been in for five days, and it hurts.
JOE ROGAN: Just don’t go online. Just detox from all that shit.
MILEY CYRUS: No wifi, like Braison.
JOE ROGAN: Just don’t pay attention to all these other women that are doing these fing wacky filters, because that’s where everybody gets fed up. It’s the comparison thing. There’s a book called The Coddling of the American Mind by Jonathan Haidt, and he talks about young girls and depression, this gigantic uptick in depression that directly coincides with the invention of the iPhone.
And that as the iPhone came up and then pictures and then social media apps—so at first it was a lot of it was social media and people being mean to each other on Twitter and all those things because you’re not seeing each other.
MILEY CYRUS: There’s something about the iPhone kind of, I guess, mimicking, right, Vegas slot machines and things.
JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah.
Social Media Addiction and the Slot Machine Effect
MILEY CYRUS: Like, it’s actually. Isn’t it? I think it was called, what I listened to was the slot machine in your pocket.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, well, it is a lot like that. But the thing about it with women in particular with young girls, is that they’re comparing themselves to these cartoons, these people that don’t even really like that picture of me.
MILEY CYRUS: You know, when I got sober, I had to delete all the apps on my phone where I could purchase things. Like, I had to take off Amazon and all the things on my phone because walking around with that slot machine in my pocket, all of a sudden I’m getting these bills and things. And yes, I care about that, and I want to live financially responsible and all the things.
And I’m looking at this, I’m like, I don’t even remember doing this. Like, it’s totally like being high on drugs. It is. And things started showing up, and you’re like, what the hell? It’s too easy.
JOE ROGAN: I’m in the middle of a book now about that. It’s called “Irresistible.” Let me find that. It’s on my Instagram, too. Jamie. “Irresistible” is this book that is about how people are addicted. It’s by Adam Alter, and it’s about how people are addicted to your phones and applications.
But it also goes into just the actual physical aspect of addiction and how it works on the brain and how we always think of addiction as, it’s something that you get hooked physically and you can’t live without it. No. It’s something that you have a compulsion to use, and you can’t avoid that compulsion for some reason. And it doesn’t even necessarily have to be good.
Love as an Addiction
MILEY CYRUS: No. And it can happen with things like love. And I’ve even felt that, too. And it’s in the most stressful times of my life, it’s okay, I can’t reach for drugs anymore. Okay. I don’t want to reach for bad food. All right? I’m going to reach for someone to love me. And it’s coming down from something all the time.
JOE ROGAN: Well, the beginning part of love is the most powerful drug you’re ever going to take.
MILEY CYRUS: It’s like cocaine.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. It’s dopamine. Straight dopamine. Right to the f*ing veins.
MILEY CYRUS: Dr. Amen has a book, “Brain in Love,” and I read it a lot because I had a tendency to need someone in my life at all times. And I actually now, I really love just factual information. So you can go, I’m not a total freak that’s got this. I’m not a love addict. This is actually what is happening to me on a level of, this is uncontrollable. You can control how it affects you and what you’re, I guess, kind of learn to control your reaction.
JOE ROGAN: Exactly. You can control your reaction.
MILEY CYRUS: But when you love someone the first couple of months, you do feel like you’re high on drugs.
JOE ROGAN: It is.
MILEY CYRUS: It is literally the same drip.
JOE ROGAN: It really is. It’s dopamine.
MILEY CYRUS: And I kind of, he writes how it kind of goes from more like cocaine, which is kind of a quick and wears off really quickly, so you need a lot of it. And then it becomes more like heroin, where it’s something that almost soothes you.
Actually, I called the love of mine, who I was with, and we got divorced. It was almost like a pacifier. Like, it was that thing that I just needed. Not because we were in love anymore, but because of the comfort and because my brain said, oh, this feels better. This is comforting.
But actually knowing that I was giving in to an addiction made me feel way worse. I had the hangover. Next day, okay, we sleep together. Next day we wake up, I’m totally hungover. Yeah, it felt like a relapse every time I go back.
JOE ROGAN: Well, people do it to each other. You know, it’s not even anybody’s fault. It’s you don’t even realize that you’re a part of this drug cycle. And then you get involved in that, and then you find some new person and you get lit up.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: Maybe some new person you see at the gym or at the office or wherever you meet people, and you’re like.
Avoiding Success Metrics
MILEY CYRUS: Well, what’s funny about this is, I guess I just realized something myself is all of a sudden, it’s unavoidable. I’m telling you, this is not true. So this is where I now retract what I’ve said, because I need to work on this a little bit. So it’s okay. It’s so untrue for me to see all these bad things. They’re in my face no matter what. No matter what. I want to look at it or not.
I have a really hard time looking at the good things. When people send me the stats of my song, I don’t open it. When people send me the charts of the views, I don’t open it. That’s a good sign because I don’t want to get attached to success or numbers or meaning that my art, everyone said, literally, I’ll show you the text of a manager. He said, “Unless it’s a drag queen death dropping to her new single, don’t even bother sending it to her because she’s not going to open it.” And I think that’s good.
JOE ROGAN: That’s a sign of you avoiding narcissism.
MILEY CYRUS: But I wonder why I feel like I can avoid, I can’t avoid the bad things and looking at them. Maybe a little addiction of that. Of looking at that. But then why don’t I want the hit of the positivity of seeing the numbers?
JOE ROGAN: Because you want to work hard because you want things to be difficult when you see too much success, you don’t want to slack off.
MILEY CYRUS: I have no idea how many people listen my song.
JOE ROGAN: I have the same thing.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, I can’t.
JOE ROGAN: Same thing. I have the same thing with podcasts. I have the same thing with comedy specials. I don’t read any of the reviews. I just keep moving.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I always do that. And everyone’s like, you want to hear some stats? I’m like, I literally, you can ask them. I say, I won’t even know what it means.
JOE ROGAN: Jamie will tell me some stats every now and then. I’ll just go, what the f* is what? Well, it gets nuts.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. I don’t know what it means.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah. What does it mean?
MILEY CYRUS: And a lot of the time, 3 million streams. What does that mean in the world of how many? 7 billion. It’s never good enough for me. Doesn’t mean I’m 3 million, 7 billion. I could do better, right?
JOE ROGAN: Exactly.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. 3 million is not enough.
JOE ROGAN: Well, I think that’s a sign that you’re looking at things the right way. I really do. Because I think that’s a sign of you, what you were talking about earlier. You want to struggle. You want to earn it. Because you think that you kind of got these crazy gifts, being famous at a young age and all this wealth and success. Young age. You want to earn it.
So when you see success and the trappings of success or wallowing around in all of your fortune, you don’t want to do that. You want to hustle, you want to keep going. I think that’s a good sign. Yeah, I really do.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. Yeah. That’s why, yeah. At some point, you can bring your kids. Maybe she can do that weird, f*ed up thing to my face. Whatever. You should come and see some of the animals. Especially when you’re in Nashville. I think you’ll totally get it. I think you’ll totally get. If you’re ever in Tennessee and you out to the farm and you see the horses and you see the pigs bite my ankles and all these things, I’m sure I think you’ll get a really good understanding of my life and who I am.
Malibu and Creative Process
JOE ROGAN: My last comedy special that I filmed was “Strange Times” for Netflix. And when I warm up for shows, I’ve done all the work, I put my brain in another place. And I was listening to “Malibu.”
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I thought you were going to say.
JOE ROGAN: All the people on the set were making fun of me so hard. My friend Anthony Giordano who also directs the UFC, by the way.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, I couldn’t imagine that good friend.
JOE ROGAN: He’s what are you listening to? I go, Miley Cyrus. And he’s shut the f* up. I go, look, I go, listen to it. I put the headsets on him and I had him listen to it. But that song is so removed from anything in me or my life. And I love your voice.
MILEY CYRUS: Thank you.
JOE ROGAN: So it’s a little escape for me.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s cool.
JOE ROGAN: So I’d be dancing backstage high as f*, getting ready to go on stage, listening to your song.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, well, that was the first song. That was the first song.
JOE ROGAN: Song.
MILEY CYRUS: Well, no, because I had done “Dead Petz.” “Dead Petz” was where I started writing my music where, if you look at the list, it says, because what’s funny. Okay, so if you look at Stevie Nicks songs, things have changed a lot in credits. A lot of it says written by Stevie Nicks, and it doesn’t says any other writers, but there are other writers because there’s music that was written. She didn’t play every guitar part and every piano part.
Now it’s changed in our credits and the way we do things. So actually you have to put written by for anyone that wrote anything musical on the song. So any guitar parts, all that. So if you start looking at some of the “Dead Petz” stuff, it’ll say written by and it’ll say a group of people, but all the lyrics were written by me. It’s just any of the melodic stuff in the track.
The Music Industry and Streaming
JOE ROGAN: Is that all stuff that’s new for money purposes?
MILEY CYRUS: I think the way that now streaming is kind of making things a little bit more difficult because you don’t pay someone the way that you would record when record sales, they get their money, whatever, so that it’s something to do with that. And it’s very complex. And they say that some of the best lawyers don’t even understand quite what’s going on in the music industry right now. Because we’re having such change, such a shift in the way that everything’s happening.
JOE ROGAN: From sales of records, sales of records.
MILEY CYRUS: To streaming, to videos, to TikToks. TikTok is like a freaking label now. So they pay TikTokers to TikTok to your music because it counts as streams. I don’t even understand it. I don’t even understand it, but this is a thing.
JOE ROGAN: TikTok is weird. Do you pay attention? All that with, it’s the Chinese government owns it.
MILEY CYRUS: No, I mean, I know that that’s a thing. I also know that it was, this is the new way of the new label. Basically, labels pay TikTok to be able to have these kids doing, I don’t know if I’m supposed to say it, but I do. So then I said it.
JOE ROGAN: Please say it.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s all I know is it’s true. So say it.
JOE ROGAN: So they pay kids to TikTok to certain. So say if you’re a TikToker, you’re a big time TikToker rich.
MILEY CYRUS: TikTokers that are from millions. I don’t know about millions. We have maybe a different idea of Richie Rich, but for kids living in a house here that there’s TikTok agencies.
JOE ROGAN: Yes, TikTok agencies. So they Marcia, I see you TikToking. Why don’t we make a big mirror?
MILEY CYRUS: It’s like a mirror. I’m telling you. It’s some f*ed up Black Mirror.
JOE ROGAN: Wow, Interesting. I didn’t know that.
MILEY CYRUS: But the one thing that I told the kids that, these kind of influencers, I’ve spoken to some of them before by doing some of this press, they want me to play the song for them, whatever. And the one thing that I said that I like is at least it’s kids creating content for themselves. Because I used to have to go through all the middlemen before. Before I could put out a f*ing video. I had to ask, hey, Gary Marsh at Disney, is this okay? Hey, this person, can I do this now? It’s, grab your phone, put it up. You’re in control of your own destiny, right?
Live Streaming and Creative Freedom
JOE ROGAN: You could. I mean, if you wanted to, you could set your phone up and just go live on YouTube and play an acoustic set and do whatever.
MILEY CYRUS: I love that about that.
JOE ROGAN: So I love that about today.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah, me too. I love that. And yeah, so kind of to that point was when I was working on Younger Now, that was the first record I was going to put out that was for sale. Because I did SoundCloud with my Flaming Lips record. I said people don’t want to hear me singing a song called “Bang My Box” about me having sex at a lesbian strip club. Well, then I’m not going to ask them to buy it. I’m just going to give it to them as a gift. And the worst thing they can do with a gift is throw it away or not open it.
JOE ROGAN: Well, that’s the thing of being in a position where you’re in that you could call the shots.
MILEY CYRUS: Exactly. And it’s like, listen, okay, you’re not going to make money off of it. That’s fine. I’m sure they’re still selling a toothbrush somewhere that plays my f*ing song. And I’ll get a dollar from that.
JOE ROGAN: Are there any TikTokers out there to “Bang My Box”?
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t think anyone’s TikToking to “Bang My Box.”
JOE ROGAN: Jamie, can you research that, please?
MILEY CYRUS: I honestly, I think everything on the Internet’s been done, but I don’t think people TikTok to “Bang My Box.”
JOE ROGAN: I would love to see a bunch of RuPaul’s Drag Queens TikToking to “Bang My Box.”
MILEY CYRUS: I don’t think it’s happening. “Bang My Box” is very, very, very niche.
JOE ROGAN: We can make that happen. I feel like we could put that out there into the Internet now. I’m trying to find a good version to show. I’m trying to be quick about it.
MILEY CYRUS: I’m scared.
JOE ROGAN: Well, listen, Jamie can find it if it’s out there. He has connections to the dark, dark web.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s what I was wondering. You got that hooked up here into the ground.
JOE ROGAN: He’s the best Googler on the planet. There’s no one even close. Yes, he’s a one handed best Googler too.
MILEY CYRUS: I know. Look at this.
JOE ROGAN: He Googles with one hand while he’s working the camera with the other.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh my God.
JOE ROGAN: Let me give me some volume. Let me hear a little bit. Look at this guy. So we got a dude.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, okay.
JOE ROGAN: There you go.
MILEY CYRUS: Look, this is how sht it is. It’s got two fing likes.
JOE ROGAN: Listen, for now it has two likes. Now people know about it. Now it’ll have more.
MILEY CYRUS: Now he’s an influencer.
JOE ROGAN: I’ll retweet that sh*t later. Send that to me and I’ll retweet it.
Writing “Malibu” and Family Vacations
MILEY CYRUS: I want you to bang my box. But point being is that that was free. And then getting to write Younger Now and writing “Malibu.” I wrote that in the back of the car on the way to the Voice because I was looking outside the window in the car thinking all of it’s true. I had never really gone to the beach. The closest I ever really gotten was my parents taking me to Florida one time and my sister got my toe caught in the revolving door and I had to go to the hospital and it was a nightmare.
And my parents swore we’d never go on vacation again. But most parents say it and don’t mean it. My parents f*ing meant it. We never went on vacation.
JOE ROGAN: That’s crazy that you did all that work and you never went on vacation.
MILEY CYRUS: Well, I went on my own vacations. We didn’t go on a family vacation.
The Power of Authentic Songwriting
JOE ROGAN: That song is so obviously written by you.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: And that was one of the things that I think I liked about it, that it was when you listen to someone sing a song, a really good song, it’s an expression of who they are at that point in time in their life, and you can get wrapped up in their mind. And I felt like that’s why I like listening to other people. I like listening to songs before I go on stage because it gets me out of my own head and it gets me into someone else’s head.
And then when it’s time to go, and they’re like, you’re on in three. And then I’ll take the headphones off, I’ll do a shot, I’ll stretch out a little, and then here we go. That’s me.
MILEY CYRUS: Oh, hell yeah.
JOE ROGAN: That is. That’s me listening to your f*ing song backstage.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s crazy.
JOE ROGAN: Yeah, legit. I’m not lying.
MILEY CYRUS: That’s nuts. Well, it’s an honor.
JOE ROGAN: I play that when Anthony was listening to it. He’s like, you f*ing idiot. What are you listening to?
MILEY CYRUS: That’s f*ing wild. I never, ever, ever would have thought that. Would have thought that.
JOE ROGAN: I like it.
MILEY CYRUS: Thank you.
JOE ROGAN: I like your music.
MILEY CYRUS: Thank you.
JOE ROGAN: And I like you. You’re a good person.
MILEY CYRUS: Thank you so much. You too. I enjoyed talking to you.
JOE ROGAN: I did, too. I’m glad we did this.
MILEY CYRUS: Agreed.
“Midnight Sky” and the Disco Ball Metaphor
JOE ROGAN: So you got something that’s out right now.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah.
JOE ROGAN: What is it? How do people get it?
MILEY CYRUS: Well, it’s called “Midnight Sky,” and even just the title is kind of inspired by Debbie Harry’s “Heart of Glass,” but I pulled inspiration from Edges 17. Two of my favorite songs, “Heart of Glass,” the reason I love it so much is that the title isn’t the repetition in the chorus. It’s just a cool thing to say. It’s not the chorus at all.
And so I thought, you know what my favorite part about it is? I love the kind of visual painting of midnight sky and what that means. And the midnight sky, to me is if you’re really f*ing partying, the moon is a disco ball, and the stars are all the reflection of light on the ceiling.
And what I really like about the disco ball is that it’s a bunch of broken pieces put back together again that when you’re finally enlightened, it makes this mesmerizing, totally attractive. People love disco balls, but it’s really just a bunch of broken pieces put together. And so I felt like that was reflective of me.
JOE ROGAN: Wow.
MILEY CYRUS: Pretty deep. Think about it.
JOE ROGAN: That’s heavy.
MILEY CYRUS: Yeah. When I saw it, I thought I recognize this. This is what I feel like.
JOE ROGAN: All right, so that’s it. Send it on that.
MILEY CYRUS: And it’s everywhere. It’s on YouTube streaming, and yeah, it’s everywhere. And I’m making it so hopefully people will watch it.
JOE ROGAN: All right. You’re a bad motherf*er.
MILEY CYRUS: Thank you. You too.
JOE ROGAN: Thank you.
MILEY CYRUS: Thanks.
JOE ROGAN: Bye, everybody.
MILEY CYRUS: Cool. I like being in here.
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