PBD Podcast Ep. 707: Who Is Andrew Wilson? (Transcript)

Anything I could do to avoid, you know, formal school, I did. It was. I knew then, I guess intuitively that school was a waste of time. It was a complete and total waste of time for me.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Were you a reader? Were you somebody that was naturally like, oh, yeah. What age did you start reading?

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, I started really early. So I was gifted in that category. So how it was explained to me was that people who are really, really, really good at math are often really terrible in the arena of reading and knowledge recall and vice versa.

I was never great at math, but I was always excellent with reading and comprehension and things like this. So, yeah, I just never had any problems in that domain.

The Father Who Taught Him to Think

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Who was the male figure in your life?

ANDREW WILSON: My dad.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Your dad? Tell me about your dad. What did your dad do?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, he had a rough story. I don’t know if I’ve really. I don’t really talk about myself too much. It’s just not my thing. But my dad, he was an entertainer. He grew up in the California area in Covina.

And my grandfather, he was in the Army Air Corps in World War II. There was no Air Force at the time. He was in the Army Air Corps. And he got married young. My dad was the oldest of four, and he was an entertainer in Covina. At eighteen, he was playing private clubs and things like this. He was a singer.

And then Vietnam rolled around and he got drafted and he didn’t want to go in the army, so he joined the Air Force. And when he joined the Air Force, he went and he served and he got back home and he found out that his wife was, you know, f*ing around on him. So that was pretty rough.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That’s not your mother. That’s somebody.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, that’s somebody else’s mother. Got it anyway.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What a mother, you know.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, exactly. So anyway, after that happens, he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and told he was going to die. So he moved in with my grandparents and readied himself for the end. Essentially.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: How old is he at that time?

ANDREW WILSON: This time I believe he is late twenties. And so a couple. He made a slight recovery, kind of a rally. And he met my mom, and they got married fairly quickly within a year or two. And luckily she was a nurse, and she’s been taking care of him ever since.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: They’re still together. Good for him. And so what did he do after entertainment? Because I know West Covina, but what did he do after entertainment?

ANDREW WILSON: He had basically odd jobs. He stayed at home with us. My mom worked because he was very sick, and so he stayed at home and took care of the kids. That was what he did. Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Interesting.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Well, he had to. He was too sick to work, so.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But you said he’s your male figure that you looked up to. So what did. How did he raise you? What did he teach you? Did he teach you toughness? Was it mental?

The Most Important Lesson: How to Think

ANDREW WILSON: He taught me something much more important than all that, which was how to think. More than anything else, it was how to think. It was what he taught me early on was most people, the things that they say, they have no justification for any of the things they say.

And most of them are just repeating something somebody else said, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you realize how powerful. Yeah. You’ll realize how to get to the truth. How you get to the truth of everything quickly.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: How do you. So what was his opinion on how to do that?

ANDREW WILSON: His opinion on how to do that was to ask him, “How do you know that? How do you. And where did you learn that? How do you actually know that? That is the case.”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Was he a Scientologist or was he a Christian?

ANDREW WILSON: He was a Christian.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Because, you know, that’s what they teach in Scientology. In Scientology, one of the first things they teach you is when, you know, when somebody says something, it’s, “How do you know that?” Let’s go look up the exact definition. What is the true meaning of that? To want to get to the bottom of the source.

ANDREW WILSON: But he wasn’t. Yeah, no, not a Scientologist at all. What he was was a guy who was taught from a different era how to think. You know, he was an old man for his time. Let’s say, you know, he was a product of the forties, essentially.

And, yeah, he knew how to think, and he still knows how to think. He’s still alive. And, you know, even though they gave him a toe tag with multiple sclerosis, said, “You’re going to die,” he beat all odds. But that’s what he taught me. That’s what he taught all of us.

A Father’s Commanding Presence

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What’s the age difference between the two? You and your father?

ANDREW WILSON: How old was he when you were born? You know, I don’t know. I’d have to think about it. I’m not sure. Let’s see. He was born. He was born in forty. I want to say 1942.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So he’s eighty-three. My dad’s also 1942.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What month’s his birthday?

ANDREW WILSON: His is in July.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay. Mine’s April 10th. Interesting. So how old are you?

ANDREW WILSON: I’m forty-one.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You’re forty-one. So then thirtyish when you were born. So wasn’t an older father. It was a younger father, relatively. You know, the age that you go through.

ANDREW WILSON: I don’t mean old isn’t physically old. I mean, his mind was trained.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Totally get it.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. His mind was trained by somebody from an older generation. Which is his.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Which is your grandfather.

ANDREW WILSON: Which was my grandfather.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Was it like if your father was. We went to dinner tonight, and your father’s with us. Is he a debate guy? Is he a guy that’ll sit there quietly? Does he push back? Does he argue? Is he argumentative?

ANDREW WILSON: He’s not. No, he’s not. He’s not the same way I am at all. My dad has a very commanding presence, so. And he’s extraordinarily likable. What happens, you go out to dinner with him, you sit down, within five minutes, you want to hear everything he’s ever had to say about everything.

That’s the type of guy he is, the type of guy he’s always been. He’s a very, very respectable guy and a very respectable guy.

The Blended Family

PATRICK BET-DAVID: How many of you guys, how many kids did your mom and.

ANDREW WILSON: Well, he had two with my mom. My mom had two children from a previous marriage, and then he had three from a previous. From his first marriage.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Seven total.

ANDREW WILSON: Total.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay, so two. It’s from same mom and dad. And are you guys seven close to each other?

ANDREW WILSON: Not really. The ones I was immediately raised with. We are the four of us, which would be my mom’s two children from her previous marriage. And we were raised so closely together, I actually didn’t even realize that we weren’t. We were half brother and half sister. It had to be explained to me when I.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: They did a great job.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, it had to be explained to me, but, you know, when I was 10 or 12, and I still didn’t really get it. You know, like, it just, I just didn’t think of it that way.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah. Makes sense.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

Common Patterns in the Wilson Family

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So is there a common pattern between the four kids that were raised by your father and mother? Like, is there a common threat that somebody would notice on mindset, on, you know, values, on certain principles?

ANDREW WILSON: They don’t take no shit from nobody.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: None of them.

ANDREW WILSON: None of them.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So is your dad from Covina, or did your grandpa move from somewhere else to Covina, or was he also…

ANDREW WILSON: He was raised in Covina, so your grandpa’s also Covina.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Interesting. Okay. So don’t take shit from nobody.

ANDREW WILSON: Doesn’t take any shit from anybody. But also, all of them can comprehensively think. That’s the most important part. They don’t have presuppositional thinking. Instead, they were, all of us were taught how to get to the heart of an issue very quickly by having this kind of, this precept, understanding that most people, the things that they say are actually untrue and they did not come to those thoughts on their own.

They came to those thoughts because somebody else gave them to them. Most people can’t control their thinking. They don’t know how. That’s something you’ve learned. That’s not something you’re born with. Most people, they don’t think their own thoughts, and most of the thoughts that are in their head are put in their head from some other source. Very rarely do you find that people came to a position on their own. It’s actually very rare.

Questioning Your Own Beliefs

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So one would argue that and say you came to the positions you have. If your parents are Christians, it is true. What you’re saying is, traditionally, we will do what our parents will believe in because of values, respect, honor, you know, comfort, you know, certain things that we recognize, you know, we see.

So how do, how do you view yourself as somebody that is that, that you question things to get to the bottom of it? How do you know that you’re actually doing it yourself?

ANDREW WILSON: By eliminating presupposition and using logic. Logic has laws, governing laws, and when you eliminate presupposition, you get to the standard of why it is that you have a position. You realize most positions you have are completely unjustified.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Give me a case. Give me an idea. Like, you know, you have a lot of topics that you guys talk about.

ANDREW WILSON: So, okay. And just go, let me give you a case. Okay. Why would it be that incest is wrong?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Why would it be that incest…

ANDREW WILSON: Let’s say, let’s say you had two brothers. They’re twin brothers. Yes. And they’re in an incestuous relationship. Why is that actually wrong?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Well, if I go get data and…

ANDREW WILSON: Data has to be interpreted.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Data has to be interpreted.

ANDREW WILSON: And even if you interpret that, it has bad outcomes. So what? All relationships have the potential for bad outcomes. What makes it actually wrong?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Tell me.

ANDREW WILSON: No, you tell me.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You’re asking me the question.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m asking you the question.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I go in two places. I go one logic, I go one values and principles.

ANDREW WILSON: Okay, well, logically.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Well, then logically, I would go get the data.

ANDREW WILSON: If I go get the data and…

PATRICK BET-DAVID: The data shows me that incest produces better high IQ, safer communities, job creators, independent crime is low, incredible society, great inventions, great innovations, then I would say maybe we ought to entertain it.

ANDREW WILSON: Okay, but what if it’s the case that data shows the opposite of that? But there’s just one case. It’s just one case of twin brothers doing it. That’s it. Just those guys. Is that wrong? Is that wrong of them to do it?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And the data of one twin brother’s doing it?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. You got one set of twin brothers, they’re doing this. Nobody else in the community is. What makes that actually wrong?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: From, from data standpoint, that’s a different story. From the value standpoint, I would go to, you know, spiritual, you know, a denomination, I mean non-denominational Christian, and according to my values and principles, that is not the right way to live.

Why Wilson Hates the Left

ANDREW WILSON: And that’s why, sir, I hate the left. You just mapped it out perfectly. This is exactly why I hate leftists with every fiber of my being. Tell me why. Because what you just gave me was an attempt at an epistemic justification. Right?

The knowledge for why this thing is wrong is based on the value set that I have, which I’m going to try to spiritually justify. Right? The leftists can’t do that. Why? Because they’re atheistic by nature and they’re cynics by nature as well. They can never give you a justification for why something like that’s wrong. So when you ask them a question like that in a debate, they just bite the bullet.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It’s not wrong without needing to give an argument.

ANDREW WILSON: They don’t need to give an argument, they just don’t think it’s wrong. It isn’t wrong.

Nature vs. Nurture

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay, so let me ask a question because you’re in this thing more than I am.

ANDREW WILSON: Sure.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You’re in it on a daily basis. I’ve been around people for a long time and I built businesses where I had to attracted people from all walks of life. Nationality, ethnicity, it doesn’t matter. It was one of the best exercises because I would learn about culture, you know, whether it’s the difference between somebody that’s Mexican from Michoacan versus a Mexican from Jalisco versus a Mexican from Zacatecas versus, you know, El Salvador versus Guatemalan versus Jews versus, you know, all these different types of things you look at. Right?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, that makes sense.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So, and then you look at them. I meet somebody, I’m like, why do you believe in socialism? Why do you believe in, you know, one time I’m in a dinner with a guy who’s about to marry a girl and we’re going out there to learn about her for the first time. He was one of my main players in the company and I’m sitting there listening to her talk and we go into this argument of, you know, “gay rights is like civil rights.”

I said, “gay rights are civil rights?” I said, “yeah, tell me why.” And she starts trying to give this argument. I said, “do you believe in what she’s saying?” And he doesn’t know what to say. So he sides with me because he’s very much a Christian conservative himself, but he’s stuck in this sphere that he doesn’t know what to do.

So eventually I keep continuing to talk to her because I want to learn why she believes in what she believes in. So do you think progressives can help themselves because they’re born that way? And do you think you are who you are because you were born that way? Or do you think you are who you are and believe in what you believe in because your father taught you well? Where, if your father was, let’s pick a man, if your father was Gavin Newsom, you would have been a very different human being.

ANDREW WILSON: I think it’s both. I think that you’re a product of genes and environment. Just like an alcoholic. You could have a propensity for alcoholism, but if no alcohol is present, right, you never have to worry about being an alcoholic. This is the same exact thing with environment versus genetics.

I do think that I have some predispositions to some types of behaviors. And if I was raised by a leftist, perhaps I would engage in a more left wing attitude towards things for a while until I started questioning things. Now, I didn’t come to the view, my father’s view completely because he taught it to me. I came to it because when I rebelled against it, it was disastrous.

Wilson’s Rebellious Years

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Tell me about that time.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, I mean, I was essentially a delinquent in my, my early 20s. I mean, I was very…

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What contradicted the values he taught you? Like what behavior did you do that contradicted what he taught you?

ANDREW WILSON: I was, I was promiscuous. I moved away from, from God. I moved away from the teachings of Jesus Christ. Moved away from everything.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: For how long?

ANDREW WILSON: Years. Let’s see. Probably a good seven years.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: How bad was the fall?

ANDREW WILSON: I mean, it wasn’t so terrible that I was robbing liquor stores, but it was bad enough that I became part of the apparatus of the delinquent portion of the world. I didn’t care about very much. It would, nothing was particularly important to me. It was a very nihilistic mindset and most of it was based purely around materialistic goals and the idea of self gain.

None of it, in other words, there was nothing I was engaging in that wasn’t completely selfish and self-centered. Not a single thing in retrospect.

The Woman Who Changed Everything

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What brought you back?

ANDREW WILSON: I think my wife ultimately brought me back. She seemed to see something in me. She seemed to see something good in me.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: How’d you guys meet?

ANDREW WILSON: We actually met online. You know, believe it or not, and she had children and we dated and we had a real rocky start, you know what I mean? But she just, she just didn’t give up on me, man.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: At that time, if I knew you, would I have considered you a Christian nationalist, you know, conservative? Would I have said the day she met you?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, you would have considered me like a cringe libertarian, you know, self-centered jerk.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Probably a cringe libertarian, self-centered jerk.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Give me an example of someone that’s like that today where I could kind of…

ANDREW WILSON: I don’t know, I guess ideologically, let’s say Dave Smith. Okay, okay. I’m not saying that Dave Smith is a delinquent jerk.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You just called him a cringe…

ANDREW WILSON: I’m just saying, I’m saying that he is a cringe libertarian. And I would say it to his face. Okay. And have. I’ve debated with Dave many times and won every time. But anyway, the point is…

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I’m assuming you guys are friends.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, we’re friends. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got no problems with Dave at all. Nothing but nice things to say about him. He’s always been very kind to me. But the delinquent part would be, I don’t know, just take the typical guy who really doesn’t care as far as dating goes, is willing to rack up bodies, is willing to bang random chicks, doesn’t really care.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Got it. So she was one of the, maybe the second reason outside of your dad for you to go back to being a Christian values, conservative values. Would you say she influenced that?

ANDREW WILSON: Probably more than any other individual, yes.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Including dad?

ANDREW WILSON: Including dad.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Tell me what, what was the reason?

ANDREW WILSON: I think because when you have somebody who has that kind of faith in you, they have that kind of trust in you, that kind of faith in you, and they lean that heavily on you and they just, they put all of that faith in you, it’s hard for you not to begin to recategorize things in life.

And one of the things you have to recategorize is, you know, it’s not all about me. You know, this really isn’t all about me. There’s now, there’s kids involved, you know, there’s a woman involved. There’s other aspects of life here which transcend what I might want for me and the idea that somebody puts the type of faith in you, that you can lead in that type of situation. I think that more than any other single thing, that probably brought my faith back to me.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So was it a first time where somebody spoke hope and belief in you? Like “I believe in you, you’re capable of doing something bigger.” Was it a language like that?

ANDREW WILSON: First time.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: First time in your life? Well, that’s magical, by the way. It’s funny you say that, because to me, the first time in my life I experienced that language was by a guy named Kogan when I was about to reenlist in the army. I’m 20 years old, he calls me, speaks that language to me. And I’m at that time, I’m just a regular punk that’s partying six days a week. I’m in the army just, you know, living.

ANDREW WILSON: What was your MOS?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: 63 Bravo. I was homeowner, mechanic. I was living a… By the way, Vinnie and I almost reenlisted last night. After the president gave $1,750, we almost started our money. I almost called Pete Hex at the game. Me, you and Rob were like, listen, guys, let’s just go on. They wouldn’t let Adam though. Adam there was like the intense show. They won’t let him go.

ANDREW WILSON: It wasn’t that long ago. You get 50 thousand bucks for signing up.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: 1750. That’s 1 million 400.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, but let me tell you, I actually like the fact that he’s doing that because it’s active. 1.45 million people he’s giving that to. But going back to it, he spoke that language. I did not know what that sounded like. And the language was why I shouldn’t reenlist in the army and I should get out because I can make it as a civilian.

And up until that point, I was the fun guy you would go and have party with. And I was… Sounds like very good at math. And I couldn’t stand anything else. I was the opposite of you. I was the math guy. I was a guy that had an easy time with calculus or math analysis or trigonometry. That was my world. I see everything through numbers.

ANDREW WILSON: But…

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So wife speaks that language. You’ve never had this experience? Then you say, I need somebody like this in my life. Then you guys get married?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, it wasn’t quite that uncomplex, but yes, essentially, you know, we dated for a few years and then got married. Yes.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: How long have you guys been together?

ANDREW WILSON: Total? 18 years.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: 18 years?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Married for 12 of it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Married 12 together 18 years. Okay, so now somebody who doesn’t know you doesn’t know your story because I don’t know if your story’s been told. Like, I didn’t know anything about your background. What you just shared right now. So if somebody doesn’t know you and…

ANDREW WILSON: A…

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Guy your age at that time when you met, your wife comes up to you and says, “Hey, I’m falling in love with a girl who’s got two kids from previous marriage, but I love her. She treats me like no one else has in my life before.” What advice would you give him?

The Complexity of Wilson’s Relationship

ANDREW WILSON: Well, it was more complex than that. She had three children. She had a previous marriage, and then she had children from her high school sweetheart. This was a massive failure of parenting on her parents’ fault on her. Yeah, it was very complex web there.

But her mother suffered from severe mental illness and was a militant feminist. And militant feminist…

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What a combination. I want to do podcasts, too.

ANDREW WILSON: Brought a pedophile into the home. Oh, God. And yeah, it was… It was a real mess for her. So anyway, her dad fought, got custody, thank God. But she… She had a rough… She had a rough background, for sure.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay, so what would you say to that guy? What would you say to a guy the age of the same age when he met your wife? “Hey, I’m meeting somebody. Complicated background, more I’m learning about her. It’s a lot of, you know, issues and drama.”

Yeah, because I’ll tell you, I dated a girl. I’m with her for three years.

ANDREW WILSON: Love her.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I won’t even give stories, but her upbringing was completely messed up. And I go and talk to my pastor about it, and my pastor’s advice was, “Whatever you don’t like now, it’s just going to get worse and it’s going to get more.”

And so I stepped away from the relationship, and I went a completely different route. And no father figure in the picture. It was the opposite for yours. Her father came in and saved, which is actually good. She felt protected. I don’t know if I’ve heard of militant feminist. I’d love to meet her. Sincerely, I’d love to meet her. But…

ANDREW WILSON: No, you wouldn’t. Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What I’m saying is I would love to see how much of a whack job or how entertaining and why she believes in what she believes in. But what advice would you give to a guy today who’s like you in your sphere? He kind of looks up to you, is like, “Man, I’m 30. Here’s where I’m 26.” What advice would you give to him? Same exact situation meets the same exact girl that you meet?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, there’s two things. The first is I don’t generally do the advice thing, and here’s why. Without really intricately understanding a person’s situation inside and out, you generally… This has just been my experience. You can actually give them advice which is very damaging to them if you don’t actually know them inside and out.

But to engage with the question itself, I would say, look, there’s a lot of complicated factors, and you need to really assess all those factors, because most of these types of relationships do not work out, and that’s a fact. Mine was an outlier. It did. Right. But there was a lot of pain, a lot of agony that went into that. There was a lot of rewards, too, but there was a lot of pain and agony. And she would tell them the exact same thing.

The truth is, is that for most people, relationships like this, they don’t work well. They just don’t. That doesn’t mean, though, that they can’t, or that if you’re in love with somebody, you shouldn’t pursue that. It just means that you should be aware of what the risks are and assess them accordingly before you know, so that you don’t…

For instance, let me give you an example of this. There’s going to be all sorts of baggage that come with dating a single mom or marrying a single mom. That’s not going to be there if you don’t marry a woman who already has children. There’s no ifs, ands, or buts about that.

However, there could also be all sorts of perks that come with that. For instance, you know, women like this, they tend to think outside of themselves. Not everything is about them. They’re not quite so narcissistic because they have other people that they have to take care of.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: They’ve graduated that.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. They’ve moved past that. So there’s maybe a level of maturity there that can offset that for some men. But that’s not all of them either. Some of them are still very much suffer from female narcissism and, you know, are basically total bitches. So I think you got to assess it case by case. But generally speaking, those types of relationships, they don’t work out that well for most people.

The Tragic Loss of Wilson’s Son

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Do you have a son?

ANDREW WILSON: I did. He died in an accident when he was 10. He died in a car accident.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You got to be kidding me.

ANDREW WILSON: No, no.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I am so sorry to hear. I did not know that.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, it’s no harm, no foul. He didn’t know. You know what I mean? But, yeah, when he was… So I had him since he was basically two. This was Rachel’s youngest son. So… Yeah. Yeah. So I had him since he was 2.

When he was 10, he went over to watch a movie at a friend’s house. His friend was the same age, they went to school together. While they were both over watching the movie, the older brother stole a car, his parents’ car, put him inside of it, took it out on the road and basically hightailed it into a tree and crushed him to death. So the other kid who was driving, he went out the front window.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: The other 10 year old.

ANDREW WILSON: No, it wasn’t, he wasn’t 10. This was the 10 year old’s older…

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Brother, but the 10 year old was in the car as well.

ANDREW WILSON: Nope, he wasn’t.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What, why did he take his brother’s best friend?

ANDREW WILSON: What the police said… it’s a little weird. Yeah. This is what… this kind of the speculation was… was, you know how younger kids look up to older kids, you know what I mean? That basically he wanted to impress the 14 year old by… Yeah, yeah, I’ll go with you.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Or the 10 year old wanted to…

ANDREW WILSON: Impress the 14 year old. Yeah, yeah, I’ll go with you.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Did the driver, did the drive, the older kid, the one that flew out the window, pass away as well?

ANDREW WILSON: No. Oh wow.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He made it.

ANDREW WILSON: He made it. Yeah. Thank God he made it. He… he had a broken arm. He went out the windshield. He had a broken arm.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Good kid.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m not sure that I would say that. He… he ended up being something of a delinquent. I don’t know what his story is now because you’re talking, you’re talking about almost, I think, I think 10 years ago now.

But at the time, yeah, it was… it was the most kind of heart wrenching, awful, horrific experience that you can imagine. I remember I was coming home essentially from looking for him. So, you know, my wife called me frantically and was like, “Hey, you know, we can’t get a hold of him. What’s going on? Can he go over and check?” Said sure, I went over, checked, he’s not here, you know, so she called the police.

The police were out looking and I remember driving up to the driveway and there was cop cars there and I was like, “Oh great, you know, they got him,” you know, so, you know, I walk inside and the cops were still in the cruisers and I came up to the front door and they came walking up and you know, they didn’t have him with him.

And the first thing the cops said was, “I have some very bad news.” And she just… she knew right then and there she just collapsed. So I told the story once. It’s a hard one to remember but… but she let out this blood curdling scream. Just blood curdling. I’ll never forget it as long as I live.

It was the… There’s just nothing as horrible as that sound. And I just… Anytime I think about it, you know what I mean, it still, it still makes the… Basically the hairs on my back, my neck, stand up. It was just… it’s just a scream of agony, you know, just emotional agony. And it was… Yeah, it was crushing. It was just absolutely devastating.

Processing Grief and Moving Forward

PATRICK BET-DAVID: How long did it take for her? And I know the answer is never, but how long did it take for her to get back to actually being able to do the day to day stuff?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, we went… I remember talking. I was very lucky. The… the person who ran the funeral home, he was a former police officer. He was a sniper in the police force, in fact. And he sat me down and he explained, he explained how all this works. He says, “Listen, I’ve seen this many times before and I’m going to tell you a bunch of things.”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That night, he’s telling you this was…

ANDREW WILSON: The next day when I was making… We made the funeral arrangements and this and that. He said, “Can you come and meet with us?” Or it was the day after, I don’t remember, but one of those, within the next, within two days of it.

So I went in and sat down with him, you know, and I was a mess. I was a mess. And she was really a mess. And anyway, I sat down with him. He said, “I’m going to tell you some things.” He said, “They’re going to be really hard, but I need you to understand.”

He said, “The first thing is she’s never going to be the same ever. Just never. She’ll find a new normal and the person that you love is still in there, but it’s never going to be the same for her. Life’s never going to be the same for… Food’s not going to quite taste the same again. The air she breathes isn’t going to be as fresh as it… As it ever could be. Right. That’s just what the new normal is going to be.”

And he said, “Your job is to take care of all of this so that she doesn’t have to. That’s your job, so do your job.” And I said, “Okay, that’s it. That’s it.”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Wow.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. You…

The Weight of Loss and Lessons from a Funeral Director

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You witness these things and you see somebody going through it and it is a very, very difficult thing to go through. And I’m assuming that guy who had that conversation was a cop sniper, you said.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, yeah, he used. Interestingly enough, I was talking to one of your security team members outside. You know, I’m a bit of a gun nut myself, and we kind of second. I was talking to this director, you know, he was kind of telling me a little bit about his backstory, and I think it was just kind of put me at ease.

You know, they were using M1 carbines when he was in the force as snipers. M1 carbines. That’s what the police. Yeah, that’s what the police officers were issuing at the time. Open sight. They had no scopes, no nothing. And he had a couple of barricaded suspect situations where he had to take the, you know, the perp out with an M1 carbine. And I was just like, you know, that kind of blew me away.

But, yeah, he so kind of old school, this guy’s law enforcement experience was. But as far as a funeral home director went, I mean, he just laid me down and just. He just laid it all out and said, this is what you need to do. I mean, he laid out everything.

You know, he said, there’s going to be people who are going to come, and they’re going to pay their respects, and you’re not even going to know them. They’re just going to read about this in the paper, and it’s going to upset them. You know, he said, maybe they’ll drop five bucks or maybe they’ll drop some flowers. He said, you’re going to write every one of those people thank you letter. Wow. He said, write every single one of them a thank you letter and tell them thank you. Because it doesn’t matter if you know him. You don’t know him now. He just walked me through everything. So I was. I. You know, in retrospect, I think I was very fortunate in many ways. Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I mean, in the military, they. The guy. The job where he has to go visit the spouse and tell them, hey, let me tell you, that’s the job. Can you imagine? That’s your job, and that’s all you do all day. And, you know, hey, your husband’s not coming home. I’m sorry to tell you your son is no longer with us. But like in Saving Private Ryan, you.

ANDREW WILSON: Want to have to go tell how.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Many people over and over and over? Andrew, when I look at your eyes and I see you in different things or even when you walked in here, you have a. You have a look. Your eyes have a look, and there’s rage behind it.

ANDREW WILSON: Okay?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That’s the look you have. Why do you have that look?

ANDREW WILSON: Rage? Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You have rage. There is like, there is a certain look where, you know, it looks. You’re skeptical always, and you have rage and a look that you trust nobody.

The Rage Behind the Eyes

ANDREW WILSON: Well, maybe. Maybe to an extent, I. In this industry, you can’t trust anybody. You. I mean, you probably know that. Well, I’ve noted that there have been many, many hit pieces on you. The more. Oh, yeah. And the more famous you get, the more they’ll be. Same here. I have tons and tons on me as well.

And one of the few people in this industry that I do trust, you probably know Steven Crowder, right? I saw what these people did to him. I saw what they did to him, and I saw what the people who were supposedly on my side did to him. I call them the sewing circle Christians. And these people do basically keep me in a continuous state of rage.

And the reason why is this. It’s like, I’m sure you’ve heard the Teddy Roosevelt, you know, the man in the arena speech. Right. You know, that’s what a guy like Crowder was and is the man in the arena. Just everybody’s a critic, you know?

And I remember when that video came out that they, you know, they spread it everywhere. His. His political enemies, his bitch ex wife, all of them just spread it everywhere. Right. He’s an abuser. He’s a this, he’s a that. And I’m like. I remember watching that video and thinking, that bad. That ain’t even that bad.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: In the backyard of the house, I.

ANDREW WILSON: Was like, man, I’ve been in worse fights than that with my. With my old lady. What are you talking.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I actually agree.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. I was like, I’ve been a worse vice. Is that with my old lady. Over way less. Over way less. Way more petty stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it’s like. And the thing is, it’s like all these holier than now people.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: This guy, this clip.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: We’ve all seen this.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. And there’s all these holier than thou sewing circle Christians are like, “How could you endorse an abuser? How could you defend an abuser? How could you do this?” And I’m thinking, shut up, you lying snake. Like, there’s no way you’re going to convince me that in the course of your relationship of 20 years, that if we had cameras on you at all times, we’re not going to find this moment times 20. It’s going to happen. Just shut up.

A hundred percent. Yeah, just shut up. Stop bullshitting me. You know what I mean? But the thing is, is a lot of those people who are the critics. Let’s say, in your case, my case, Crowder’s case, many others. A lot of that, I think, comes from a position of jealousy, and it comes from a position of envy.

And because of that, you know, these people, all they do is criticize. But my challenge has always been to the sewing circle Christians. Well, where are you? Like, I’m on the other end of the most diabolical people daily. I’m in the most hostile environments, the most hostile panels. Right? I’m always completely surrounded. I’ve never seen any of you. Where the hell are you?

Well, you’re siding with our enemies because I’m too mean or Crowder’s too mean, or anybody who defends themselves is too mean. Why don’t you show us how it’s done? And they’re nowhere. They’re nowhere.

In many ways, I respect leftists who will engage on their ideology. Right. And engage on the arguments much more than I respect my own side of which has many of these sewing circle Christians who refuse to engage but instead just want a virtue signal to the audience. “No, no, no. I’m a real Christian. You would never hear me say something so nasty and evil to a diabolical person who just told me they killed three of their kids in the womb,” you know?

And I’m like, I’m supposed to sit there and go, “Oh, well, okay, then let me pat you on the head and read gospel.” That doesn’t work. You have to destroy worldviews before you can replace worldviews.

The Crowder Controversy and Marriage Reality

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah. Stephen called me the day this was released. It could have been the day or the next day. And he said, “Hey, I just want to tell you, here’s what’s going to release” was already released. “This is what really happened.” I’m listening to him for 45 minutes, and the call ends like this. I said, “Stephen, you will never hear me comment on this.” I said, “We’re not commenting on this kind of stuff.”

And Rob and I talked about it. Rob, if you remember, we’re doing podcasts, bro. I’m like, this is really not a topic I want to talk about. Marriage is hard. People got to figure it out. Of course, if it’s like, you know, someone shot and killed or something like that, okay, we have to comment on that. But an argument like this. Let them handle it the way they. I thought it got out of control, and it wasn’t a. It became too much of a thing.

It was around the same time that he was negotiating the contract with. What do you call it? With Daily Wire, right? And when he came out. And he read the contract and what they offered him and all this stuff that we commented on. And I said, “Look, you know, when you do something like that, I would be hesitant to ever make an offer to you because then it’s kind of like, are you going to go share my contract with them publicly?” But Crowder, to me, he’s the guy.

ANDREW WILSON: Well, they, Jeremy Boreing and those people at Daily Wire shouldn’t have been trying to negotiate with his ex wife on the side. We.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Reacted to that God knows how many times. And then, trust me, I don’t think anybody in the market would say, you know, we are best friends with Jeremy Boreing and Ben Shapiro and Ben Shapiro loves us. And you know, it’s like, no, I’ve been on his show, he’s been on my show, we invited him, he’s canceled a couple times. Jeremy Boreing’s been on. We’ve had good conversation, actually. Jeremy boring. We had a very good conversation together.

But I don’t know when the whole Candace thing that was taking place. Everybody thought Candace is automatically going to come here. They blamed us for, you know, this is what’s going on. No, I’m on the phones. I’ll help you, I’ll help you, I’ll help you. You know, our enemy is on the outside. My, you know, sometimes the distractions. Can you, can you tell me while you’re going through this, what do you mean by, did you call it sewing circle? Christians that got three abortions? Who are you talking about?

The Sewing Circle Christians

ANDREW WILSON: Well, on my side of the aisle, most critics, right, Because I engage oftentimes my argument style starts and ends with Christian ethics. That’s always the viewpoint that I’m coming from, whether I’m debating politics or I’m debating social issues or I’m debating any of these things. That’s my grounded foundation.

So most of my criticisms don’t actually come from leftists, though many of them do. They actually come from a particular brand of Christian. And I don’t know what you would say, maybe virtue signalers, right? They’re always trying to signal their virtues and it’s always like, “Oh my God, you smoke, you smoke cigarettes or ah, you drink beer. Real Christians don’t drink beer.” Like, it’s always petty criticisms.

But anytime there’s controversy around me or a clip taken out of context or something like this, these are the first people to rush in and give me universal condemnation, mostly so that my enemies will look at them. And these are leftists, right? They want leftists to look at them and think you’re the good Christians.

And it’s like the whole time. So in other words, the whole time, these people are burning the whole forest down around our ears, right? And I say, “Hey, put those matches down.” “Hey, don’t say the F word.” I’m like, “Well, wait, we got a bigger problem here. We got a bigger problem here.” “Nope, you said the F word.” Yeah, that’s no good. Yeah. And so those people, to me are like the lowest of the low. Well, I mean, if you want specific names.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Specific names. If you’re comfortable saying who are some of them?

ANDREW WILSON: So I would say people like Lila Rose. Representatives like Lila Rose. I would even say, you know, reps like Trent Horn, people like this. These are people who they themselves may not necessarily levy the criticism directly, but it’s the influence that they have over the various audiences that they have that then go and direct these criticisms towards you. Got it.

Though I never actually see these people in the arena debating these social issues with anybody. They’ll do abortion debates, things like this, but I never see them surrounded with a panel of, like, the worst degenerates on earth debating all of their worldviews simultaneously. But they have tons of criticisms for people who do. And I’m like, “Well, where are you?” Nowhere.

And where are you, by the way, when anybody wants to debate you on why it is that you’re so inactive when it comes to the culture war and social issues? Right? They turn all that stuff down. They refuse to argue with the red pillars. They refuse to argue with any of these people. They literally just refuse to engage. Tons of criticisms. Absolute refusal to engage. Got it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So Lila Rose, one time, I was on her show, this was about a year, year and a half ago, and she. We were talking about, I don’t know how abortion came about, and I just kind of gave my. And she disagreed and went back and forth. I’m like, okay, yeah. And it’s very obvious. She’s like the.

ANDREW WILSON: The.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: The fully, fully goody two shoe. Like everything I do. Right.

ANDREW WILSON: That’s what it is.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But to me, I think there’s a place for her as well. But guys like you, you know.

ANDREW WILSON: To.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: To become you, you have to have lived a shitty life to get tough and be willing to go into the arena and be able to handle it. You just have to.

ANDREW WILSON: I agree.

The Arena and the Critics

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You have to have lived a very, very rough life. And you don’t just say, let me raise kids and make their life a living hell to raise an Andrew Wilson. That’s not how it works. You go have a very difficult upbringing. You got this pain, this callous, this. All this stuff that you’ve carried, and then, boom, and you’re like, in fight mode. And fight like, what’s the next one? Who’s the next one? That’s not for everybody. You can’t train her to be like you.

ANDREW WILSON: I agree.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah.

ANDREW WILSON: So. So.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But I think there’s a place for both of you guys, and I even agree with that. What I don’t agree with is if you’re not willing to do it, shut your mouth and don’t criticize, then.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Got it. So if you’re not willing to get in the arena, don’t react and don’t give your thoughts on what Andrew Wilson believes.

ANDREW WILSON: That’s right. If you’re not willing to do it yourself. And here’s the thing. I’ve always had an open channel.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It’s never going to stop the reaction audiences. That’s a business model.

ANDREW WILSON: Look, I totally get it, and I understand that this is something I’ll always have to deal with, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t say publicly, well, show me how it’s done then. Or, hey, many times we put the offers out, then you come in. Show me how you would do it better. And then we watch him fail and flop over and over and over again. It’s not as easy as it looks, as you know, of course.

Steven Crowder’s Comeback

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And by the way, a guy like Steven Crowder, the same way he had a bad fall, he can make a massive comeback and be the main guy again. At one point, I think he was the main guy. No, wasn’t Crowder like the guy? Oh, yeah, he was coming back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I’m so glad he’s coming back. I’m so glad. Like, he’s. You can see the eyes. The eye of the tiger is back in it. You can tell you’re saying you’re taking some.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m kidding. I’m kidding. I’m kidding.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He’s going to call you and he’s going to say something like, what are you doing?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. No, I think I told Stephen that I think that he’s wasted and, you know, that he does best. The thing is with him, and I completely understand it, you know, he’s built a moat around himself. You know what I mean? And it’s like, but that’s not where you shine, man. You shine in that arena. Engaging, you know.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Coffee.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Fighting it out like you’re. He’s really good at it. He’s had tons and tons of guests coming in now. And he’s duking it out with him. Right. He’s doing it in the Steven Crowder way. Right. It’s both respectful. Yeah. And it’s insightful, sarcastic.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He has to have all that.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. And it’s fun to watch. And he’s a super smart guy.

Why Wilson Hates Progressives

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What do you believe in if. Because at the beginning, in the first three minutes you said I hate progressive. When I was going back and forth with them on Facebook and you know, tell me you know one, what you believe in. And you made one of the points on why you hate progressives when you asked me the question. You’re like, so twin brothers, incest. Why is that wrong?

ANDREW WILSON: I’ll explain to you why I hate progressives more than anything. Progressives have been for the last 10 years, actually more, running around calling everybody who disagrees with any of their crazy a values fascists and authoritarians and dictators and things like this. These are the people who brought us the lockdowns. The state issued garment of the mask. Right. Mandatory vaccines. They wanted vaccine passports. They shut down businesses. They gave us a fascist state.

So when these people are in charge, they give you fascism. That’s what they do. And yet all I ever hear these people do is run around. That’s what they call him. They call him a fascist. I’ve heard him do it many times. You and your fascist friends. I’ve heard him say it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And it’s like, yeah, you guys aren’t peers. You guys are peers together. Many times they never tell us, but then we just show up and they’ll have like a Steve Bunnell or they have just everybody completely on the left that didn’t say one thing. Not one thing. My body, my choice. When they were telling them, stay in the house. Oh, and by the way, jab it into your kids. When you have people like Cuomo and them saying, you know, the real enemy is your fellow Americans.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: When they were calling us, US fascists. And meanwhile they were behind this freaking Nazi a.

Christians and Political Power

ANDREW WILSON: You weren’t wearing your mask. You’re trying to kill my grandma. Right. So this was when. In other words, though, here’s the way I view the world. Christians, if they are not in power, if they’re not ruling, they’re going to be ruled. That’s it. So if that’s the case, and that is the case, we live in a democracy which is full of structured power blocks. Everything is a power block.

And because of that, you’re going to be ruled by a power block or you’re going to rule a power block. This idea that Christians shouldn’t be in charge I think is insane. And I think it comes from a bizarre libertarian ethos that makes no sense. Where the idea here is you could be a Christian, but you can’t govern using Christian ethics. And it’s like, well, yeah, you can, and yes, you should. You absolutely should be able to govern using Christian ethics. That’s the only way you should govern is from your ethical purview, in fact.

And if you’re not governing, if Christians aren’t in charge, somebody else is going to be in charge of them. And so this is a race for power, and it’s always been a race for power. And for some reason, Christians have been convinced to give their power up. And one of the core seats of my message is that they shouldn’t do that and instead should do everything they can to maintain political power. That’s the non-apologetics branch.

So the way that the Internet is currently structured, you have the apologetics branch of Christianity. That’s the role you’re talking about with Trent Horne and Lila Rose and these people, the apologetics branch. You have barely any of the political branches for Christianity. No good representation on that side. Politics is ugly and it’s mean and it’s brutal and it’s not fun and it’s full of slings and arrows and mudslinging and reputational assaults and reputational damage. Right. That’s what it’s full of.

I just wish the apologetics arm would get their s* together and understand that the very things that they’re trying to fight against, abortion, things like this, they need the political arm for. And if they’re not willing to engage in it, then they should at least support the people who are, instead of endlessly criticizing them. And that’s all they do. That’s all they know how to do.

But that’s the way I see it. I see it as a power block struggle. You’re either going to be ruled by the lunatics of the world or you’re going to rule the lunatics of the world.

The Lunatics in Power

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Which lunatic do you fear the most? And which lunatic seems like is making the most progress?

ANDREW WILSON: Lunatics like Gavin Newsom. Lunatics like this. We now have a communist in charge of New York. I mean, you name the progressive, AOC, she’s another lunatic. All of these progressives, from my view, are actual lunatics with no grounding ideology whatsoever other than what they’ve heard. They don’t have God, they don’t have Jesus, they don’t have anything to turn to for epistemic grounding. Nothing. And they literally rule from feelings. Suicidal empathy. And they put suicidal empathy in policy form.

That’s why we have mass migration. I mean, the most insane policy I could ever think of is let’s bring in a million and a half people a year into a nation. If you want to do immigration, fine, do immigration, but bring in a manageable number that can be integrated. 30,000, 50,000, 60,000. I don’t think anybody would have a problem with that. You know, you can integrate those people over time. You can spread them out. You can do all this.

That’s not what’s going on. What’s going on is they’re bringing in millions per year in Australia. They’re bringing in whole percentages of the population yearly, in Canada, the same thing. It’s insanity. And then they go, if you object, you’re a Nazi. It’s like, what are you talking about? If I object to that, I’m a Nazi? You’re going to bring in people who don’t have value structures that are the same as our value structures. They don’t have the same type of American drive. They don’t have the same values. They don’t have the same anything. And me objecting to that means that I’m a fascist. That’s crazy to me.

I consider that lunacy. I consider these people on the lunatic fringe of the political spectrum, and yet they’re gaining power. And so they go, why is it that the fringe right is making such momentum? How can you have guys like Nick Fuentes making such momentum? And it’s like, he’s a product of you, okay? He’s a product of you say, well, how come his message has come? How come his messages. Time has come? It’s like, because of you. You made it. You made it inevitable.

The Deplatforming Backlash

It was really funny. Fuentes used to say, “America First is inevitable,” and people would scoff, right? And the left made it inevitable. Think about what they did. They deplatformed the guy. They said, “Make your own technology, smart guy.” So he did, right? So he makes his own streaming platform, right? Next thing in the headlines, “Nazis making their own streaming platforms.” Well, he told them to you deplatform from the one place that you can engage with him publicly that would get normal people to view him, right? And others like him.

And he threw him off of that. And they went and they built their own platforms. Not just him. Gavin did it, too. Gavin McGinnis, right? Stefan Molyneux had the largest philosophy show. I loved watching that show. Okay. Loved it. I would drive for hours listening to Stefan Molyneux prattle about philosophy. Because I’m a dork like that, right? Hours of listening to this guy prattle. And I’d always say, one day I’m going to debate this f*ing idiot. I like the guy.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Did you or.

ANDREW WILSON: No, I haven’t yet. I will. But I like the guy quite a bit, don’t get me wrong. I really do. But I would listen to him for hours. These guys and YouTube systematically threw them all off the platform. Not because of any actual violations to their Terms of Service. What they did was they reacted to the liberal progressive base and then based their Terms of Service on that reaction. And then the counter narrative was, well, go build your own. So they did. They went and they built their own.

So now they built all their own. And then they start amassing this huge audience completely on post. Okay, well, times are changing. Now X is bought by Elon Musk. Suddenly that’s freed up. They’re all allowed to come back on X. Now they got another platform. And what can you do on X? Now you can video host, too. Now you can do video on X. And they can’t just nuke you anymore, right?

So now the whole arena has opened up, right? And the backlash is ginormous. And it’s like, all you got to do is go look in the mirror to see who’s responsible for it, you dumb lefties. These stupid leftists did it. They did it all to themselves. Literally blew their feet off. What they did was they set their feet on fire to warm up their hands. That’s what they did. Yeah.

The Creation of Andrew Tate

PATRICK BET-DAVID: We’re talking to a guy right before he came in, one of your biggest fans in the world, who, you know this is Rob, is laughing, but he says, you know all this stuff about feminism. I said, where do you think Andrew Tate came from? They created him. He didn’t just all of a sudden start speaking this language that, you know, misogynist, all this other stuff. No, no. They pushed men so much to try to make them feminine. That guys are like, is there anybody out there that is an Alpha that can just come and tell me the way it is? That’s okay to be a man’s man. Boom. Here shows up, and Andrew, next thing you know, becomes the. You know who he is. And everybody’s like, Andrew Tate is a problem. You created him. Kind of goes back to the point you’re making.

ANDREW WILSON: My name is Andrew Wilson, host of the Crucible. As you guys know, I’m a political analyst and a political satirist. If you want to talk directly with me, as many of my audience have requested that they be able to do, I’ve been able to carve out as a system on this platform net in order to do that with you. That’s on my net. You can ask me whatever questions that you want. We can talk debate, we can talk strategy, we can talk about basically whatever it is that you’ve been wanting to talk with me about. And I hope to see all of you there.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But I want to ask you what is more dangerous to America, Progressive ideology or.

ANDREW WILSON: Or.

The Muslim Strategy: Using Progressives as “Useful Idiots”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: The casual approach you take with Muslims that are coming to you who are not willing to assimilate and they still want to convert this into what they believe in long term. What’s a bigger threat to you?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, those two threats are intertwined. So you have to understand that the Muslim mentality in the United States, after debating with so many of them, I understand what their goal is and they’re pretty emphatic about stating it.

Muslims also hate progressives, but progressives are useful idiots. Really useful idiots. Essentially what Muslims do is they’ll vote Democrat and they’ll vote for leftist policies. They’ll do whatever they need to do because leftists continue to open up the immigration trail for more Muslims to come in.

So as long as Muslims can use left wingers for the path to bring more Muslims in, they’ll vote left overwhelmingly. But you see them locally do exactly the opposite, which is amazingly fun to watch. So locally they’ll be like, no gays in school, right? No this, no women doing this. None of this degeneracy. We won’t allow any of that.

But then they vote for leftist politicians and you’re like, why would you do that? Well, it’s because the leftist politicians are opening up the pathways for citizenship for more Muslims to come in. It’s a takeover. It’s an invasion. It’s always been an invasion.

In Europe right now, it’s an invasion. It’s the same thing there. The lefties are the Muslims there. They’ll vote for the lefties. Why? Because it’s a very pragmatic thing to do to continue to keep the pathway of citizenship open. What do Muslims say their ultimate weapon is? The woman’s womb. We’ll breed you out. They don’t care. They’ll wait 200 years. They don’t care.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It’s the infiltrate, populate, dominate and never assimilate. Yeah, and then it’s Sharia law. Yeah, but you know what it is.

ANDREW WILSON: Because it’s not happening.

The Long Game: Islam’s Demographic Strategy

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Because it’s not right now. Because people are like, man, we’re in a Christian nation. Which I actually wanted to ask you as well, who’s which religion is basically running this show? Because I mean, Trump has even said. Trump is not a Christian. He even said that one time in interviews like, I’m not going to heaven, which I never would want to hear from a president.

But if you think about it right now, I don’t think because people like, we see it, we see the writing on the wall. He’s come. He had to escape from Iran. My parents, grandparents, all of them have to escape from that rule. And right now, because it’s not actively in your face, it’s happening in Texas. You see it in Minnesota. And it’s about to start happening in New York. Nobody really sees it.

But in 20, 30 years, like you said, the long game, they’re winning. They’re winning because it’s not going to stop. What was the by 2060, it’s going to be the most dominant religion is going to be Muslim. And you nailed it. And you nailed it. And they said it.

There’s a video of some guy, Pat, the guy that used to be a hardcore Islamist and then convert. He’s like, we love the dumb. We use the Democrats, we use, we do it. But then when they come in. Yeah, all the woke, progressive, abortion, trans, gay, all that. Good, good.

Like Mamdani, he’s in a church or whatever talking with some trans. And like we love him. We love him. You think his people, they actually agree with what he’s talking about that they accept the gays, they accept the women have to cover their heads. Ilhan Omar’s dress up all the time. Wrapping your head around. This is the clip right here.

ANDREW WILSON: Pat it. Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Could you play that? Lord help us. Just listen to this. When I was an extremist Islamist fundamentalist, I would only vote left. Why is that? I saw them as very stupid. I would fear the conservatives because they come with principle.

ANDREW WILSON: Y.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That’s not someone they can brainwash. But the left, I know they have no values and no principles to begin with. I dare you to find one Islamic extremist that votes for Donald Trump. Never do it. They give their vote to the leftist who wants to run around in pride parades and Islamic streams are against gays and homosexuals and transgenders.

But they want the left to go and get busy with that. And Omar, she’s fighting for abortion rights. My body, my choice. Yes, go do that.

ANDREW WILSON: Would she have an abortion? Never.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Would she kill a Muslim in her stomach? Never.

ANDREW WILSON: What is the fundamentals agenda for America?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: The future of America has to be Muslim. And if you say that, Andrew, if we say this, by the way, you have no, I can’t say. You have no idea. You know, and he knows because we get the same type of messages. I’m pretty sure you have. Lovely. I just showed them a death threat that I got from a Muslim guy on Instagram. And it’s like, it’s the writing is on the like. And it’s like the writing’s here, and people are telling you turn around and look.

ANDREW WILSON: And they’re like, no, no, it’s, it’s, it’s not.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It’s never going to be like that.

Responding to Muslim Death Threats

ANDREW WILSON: You know what I always do with the Muslim death threat, though? I say I’m going to come kill you and rape your wife and kill your kids and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know. And I’m always like, well, I can give you directions to my house, but do you have a high enough IQ to follow up? And they.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: They come back.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Then they just, they start spurging out, and then we just kind of laugh because it’s really funny. They get really mad.

The Daniel Haqiqatjou Debate: The IQ Argument

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That was a moment with injustice with you in the debate with Daniel Haqiqatjou. Rob, if you want to pull it up, this is the moment. You guys are having a debate. And he is many Muslims view him as a great debater. Okay, somebody that.

ANDREW WILSON: I can give you a precursor there. So Haqiqatjou does his homework, just like me, and I do consider him to be a very skilled debater, and I took him very seriously. He’s an Ivy League graduate, just like my other opponent at that debate was Richard Carrier, who was a progressive.

So I did two debates back to back, one on Saturday, one on Sunday, both with Ivy Leaguers. So I did take him very seriously. And when I came up to him and shook his hand for the debate started, I said, hello, Daniel, how are you? You’re a great debater. And he said, yeah, you too.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He said that?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, he said, yeah, you too. So when we came up, I think we both, he had a predictive model for me. In other words, he had sat down and predicted out what he thought my line of attack would be. The difference between us was that I predicted what he predicted that was that would be. And so I was ready for it. He did not predict how I was actually going to come at him.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So he didn’t know that you were going to do this.

ANDREW WILSON: He had no clue.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay, so this is a very unique angle you took.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. And it’s funny because the core of the argument is actually twofold and people only picked up on the one. But I can explain the other end of it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Would you mind watching this first? And are you giving it to us, Rob?

ANDREW WILSON: Go ahead. Inbreeding has been occurring at a high rate for about 1,400 years since the early Islamic period, encompassing most of the land still occupied by Islam today. It spread from the 8th to the 15th century, moved into Persia, North Africa, South Asia, where it remains and has created some of the dumbest human beings on planet Earth.

The most common type of inbreeding is first cousin marriage. The rates of first cousin marriage in comparison to Christian nations is staggeringly high, even in comparison to regions occupied by Arab Christians. When a nation has both Christians and Muslims, Muslims are often double or higher than Christians. Example, India, Lebanon.

Next slide, please. Muslim inbreeding. Oh, sorry. Sorry about that. Pakistan at 65%. 65% meaning more likely than not, you’re having sex with your cousin. And if you’re not, you’re the weird one.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Two thirds is incest.

ANDREW WILSON: For the low IQ members of MDD, that means these people are more likely than not having sex with their aunts or uncle’s children. Who? Saudi Arabia, 50 to 58% with an average 76 IQ.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Who would have thunk it?

ANDREW WILSON: UAE, 54%, 82 IQ. The crown jewel of the Arab world. You are more likely than not to be banging your first cousin. Iran, 40%, 80 IQ. Yemen, 45%, 62.9 IQ. Qatar, 30%, 80.8 IQ.

Now we’re going to continue, right? Oman, 36%, 78. Syria, 39%, 74 IQ. Turkey, 25%, 86 IQ. Jordan, 32%, 80 IQ. Egypt, 32%, 76 IQ. It goes on and on and on, and it just never gets better.

Next slide, please. Thank you. Compared to Christian countries. Let’s take a look. Usually less than 1% now. I wonder why Christians build better societies, ladies and gentlemen. Now let’s keep going.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: We want to pull up the slide.

ANDREW WILSON: He’s really upset here. Moving right along. As countries become more Christian, inbreeding declines. Right. We can see this from church intervention in Spain, 20 to 30% post Reconquista. Catholic Church banned cousin marriages for commoners. Papal dispensations, soldiers for royals.

Italy, similar high rates in the medieval period. The Church enforced bans over the century. France, high medieval canon law prohibited marriage within four degrees of relation.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You can pause it right now.

ANDREW WILSON: Modern. Okay, tell us.

The Dual Purpose of the IQ Argument

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So you’re explaining this. The argument is, higher IQ, better society, better jobs, better economy, low IQ. You make worse decisions. Not the best opportunity, not the safest society. What was the second point you were trying to make?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, so the debate, the framing was, which makes a better society, Islam or Christianity? I knew that Daniel’s attack would be Christian societies have degeneracy in it. The easiest way to combat that is, well, I think it’s pretty degenerate to be humping your first cousin. Okay. I think that that’s pretty degenerate myself.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I reacted to you right, Rob. There’s even the reaction of him where the audience laughs, I believe, and is if you think the worst. No, not this one. It’s a 14 second clip that, Rob, that you have. Get it a minute ago. 14 second clip. That’s it.

ANDREW WILSON: Yes. If IQ is the end all be all. Your entire argument is on the basis of IQ.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You haven’t said.

ANDREW WILSON: You just say, oh, marrying your cousin, f*ing your cousin.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That is degenerate on the basis of what?

ANDREW WILSON: It’s not on the basis of your Bible.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It’s just a degree. Yeah, laugh it up, laugh it up.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, my God.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Like, so what? Like, it’s like.

Banking on Christian Benevolence

ANDREW WILSON: And, well, I knew that he would, I knew that this was going to be bad for him going into the debate because I knew that he would have to double down and defend first cousin marriage. I knew it because this particular sect of Islam that he represents, they’re crazy. Okay?

And if he were to try to go against it, his head’s now in the chopping block, right? Literally. It basically put him in a pincer. But that wasn’t even the core. Right. The core of the crux of the argument wasn’t just that we build way better societies as Christians because we’ve outlawed inbreeding, so our collective IQ is high enough to not have donkey pole cart.

The core and the crux of the argument was really about ethics. They’re constantly appealing to people they consider to be ethically inferior to them to not wipe them out. They’re constantly appealing to societies 10 times more sophisticated than their own to just literally not wipe them out and take all of their resources, which means they’re banking on our benevolence, literally banking on Christian benevolence.

If that’s the case, how are you going to stay? We’re the worst people on, you know, our ethics are wrong. We follow the wrong God. We, you know we’re not doing things right. You’re banking on the benevolence of Jesus Christ to restrain us from going to the most oil rich portions of the world and not just putting you all to the sword.

What’s to stop us from doing that? Only our ethics, only our ethical purview and faith in Jesus Christ is what prevents that from happening to you. So how about a little gratitude? How about a little gratitude towards these Christians you demonize all the time? How about a little bit, how about a little thank you for stopping and restraining the hordes from going over with their enormous technology and just putting you barbarians to the sword? Because we could.

The IQ Argument in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, you made the argument that there was a part of the debate where I think you said it’ll never happen, you guys will never take over because you’re always going to need us.

ANDREW WILSON: Not militarily.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, you’re always going to, you’re never going to be able to do it because you’re going to need us. Your point with that was militarily, yes.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, they could perhaps breed us out over time because of birth rates and other various things like this. But all you have to do right now is just look at the situation that they’re in to note that they have a serious, serious problem here with mass organization and mobilization. And that has a lot to do with IQ.

They hate Jews. Muslims hate Jews to the point of, I mean, it’s wild how much they loathe them. This is an ancient conflict, by the way. And whether you say that it’s right or wrong, that they hate them, we can at least acknowledge that they do. Well, they have 9 million Jews in their backyard and they can’t do anything to them.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That was the point you were making.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, they can’t do anything to them. They’re totally, these people are completely and totally surrounded. Right. And they just whip the shit out of them every time they get into an engagement. And it’s because the IQ and by the way they bring up, for instance, they’ll say, “Oh well, there’s incest and inbreeding in Israel too.” It’s true. But it’s very low, very, very low percentage.

And most of it, guess what? When they, when you look into the stats on inbreeding, it’s the Palestinians. That’s where you get most of the stats. In Israel. Yeah. In Israel it’s the Palestinians who are doing the inbreeding. And so it’s like all you got to do is look at the IQ difference between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

And then you realize, if we’re looking at it from a pure view of like, might makes right, that the Palestinians are completely and totally at the mercy of the Jews in that area. They just are. Objectively, they are. There’s no way for them to take on this advanced civilization.

But what’s ironic about it is neither can any of the other sophisticated nations around. Pakistan, for instance, they have nukes. Can they even deliver them? You know, can these low IQ, 65% inbred people even deliver these nukes? I’m not even sure that they can.

And so this was the point that I was ready to make. Regardless of where you fall in the Israeli Palestine conflict, I’m not making a prescription here for what Israel is doing is right or wrong or anything in between. I’m just making the observation that 9 million of you versus the entire Arab world and the 9 million seem to be doing all right.

There’s got to be some reasons here. And if you look at the technological and IQ differences, it becomes very, very obvious what those reasons are.

The Numbers Game: 9 Million vs. 100 Million

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What is the Muslim population around Israel? Is it a billion plus? What is the Muslim population?

ANDREW WILSON: I mean, like, I think directly around it, it’s not 600 million probably.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Can you check, Rob, what is the Muslim population around Israel, meaning surrounding countries total? So the only one, Indonesia, wouldn’t be there. So that’s a big number that’s going to be out. So if you total number, what do you pull up, Rob?

ANDREW WILSON: Well over 100 million Muslims in the broader region. Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So over a hundred million.

ANDREW WILSON: Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And those hundred million cannot take out the 9 million.

ANDREW WILSON: That not only can they not, it’s actually worse. It appears to me that from a logistical, military standpoint with Israel, plus Israel’s allies, which they’ve cultivated, which again, takes a lot of high IQ diplomacy and things like this and integration to do, they whip the shit out of them.

They recently had an exchange with Iran. And not only was the Iranian propaganda awful, I mean, you remember the X propaganda from Iran, you know, “Oh, the war strikes there and we got one missile through.” You know, they said the whole payload got one missile through. And they were dancing like they did something. And it’s like they were on the losing end of that very quickly.

And that was without. Now it is true that there was US allies which were assisting the Israelis with this, but you have the entire Arab region as your allies to assist you. And it appears to me like if they went to war with Israel, they would probably actually lose collectively because of the inability to do mass mobilization, to have military command structures which are decent and their ability to have kind of like when you look at military logistics, it’s very complex and it requires a ton of middle management.

Middle management usually starts around 100 IQ, upper management. You get to like, you know, 120, 130, stuff like this. But you need to have at least 95 to 100 just to have middle management and logistics is all middle management. And so it’s like, I don’t think that they would fare all that well.

The Christian Civilization Counter-Argument

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So your, the debate, the angle you took was purely IQ and that became a talk of town when you did that.

ANDREW WILSON: Not just that, but ethics.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah. Now his argument back to you was to be fair. He said, if that’s the case, why are countries like Honduras, why are countries that are so Christian, how come they’re not innovative? Why are they not winning? What was your argument to them?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, actually they are, they do make better civilizations. That’s one much better civilizations. What killed and has been killing South America for a long time is the integration of communism and socialism. Their relationship, especially with the USSR and the spread of communism. You saw this with Che Guevara and others.

You also saw recently. I mean, right this second, it looks like we have another conflict that’s brewing there. And this is with what a socialist nation. You had Chavez, who was a socialist as well, a lot. And you see this in Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe is behind Western Europe in many innovative ways because of what happened with communism and the integration of communism.

And it takes a long time to shrug that off. I mean, it’s such a destructive ideology. But I still think that civilizationally we’re talking about ideology here. Islam’s ideology leads to inbreeding. Right. Communist and socialist ideology leads to a lack of innovation and stagnation, which also has long term side effects.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Those are two different things. And destructive in their own unique ways.

ANDREW WILSON: Correct.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: One of them is values and principles. The other one is economically, well, and.

ANDREW WILSON: Also values and principles. Communism is very much an atheistic view. The very first thing the USSR did, in fact was actually put a separation in between church and state. The idea here was that Christianity was a thing. Remember what they did first? The Communists killed the Orthodox czar of Russia. That’s what they did. And they were taking out the Orthodox Church.

What the communists did to the Orthodox in the Eastern European nations is blood curling. I mean, it’s just chilling when you read the stories of what they did to them. And it’s because the Orthodox Christians, they have complete and total opposition most of the time to communism based on the ethical purviews that Orthodox Christians hold. And so they are instantly persecuted in communist nations.

So again, it’s the rejection. I believe it’s a spiritual war. It’s a rejection of Christianity itself that actually leads to these worst outcomes, even in communist nations. I don’t think it’s just purely economics. I think that it’s. I consider all of these battles.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Communism recommends incest. I don’t know if communism, it recommends abortion.

ANDREW WILSON: It’s where feminism came from. The ideals of feminism came from communist feminist revolutionaries. The exportation of communist ideals are always academic and the academics always. The very first thing they do is secularize the nation, move God out of schools, move God away from everybody. Right. I do think that the ideology of communism is very much antithetical to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the teachings of.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: There’s no question about it. But the difference is you don’t see the link of incest with communism. No, all the other stuff fully agree. Listen, my mother said they were all communists, so I’ve read the Communist Manifesto. I’ve also read Mein Kampf. So you kind of have to see where both sides are. But yeah, incest is a different thing.

The London Mayor’s Evasion

So to me it’s interesting. By the way, did you see the clip where the mayor of London is being asked about incest in the Pakistani community in UK? This just happened.

ANDREW WILSON: Did you see this?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, you haven’t seen it?

ANDREW WILSON: You think they watched my debate and by the way.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And then they pushed him on crime. And you should see, by the way, first one is going to irritate the hell out of you. This is the Siddiq. Is this Siddiq? Yes, it is. Rob, is this the one about incest? Which one’s the incest question with Pakistani. Go to that one. Is that crime or what is he talking about here? There’s two of them. Not this one, there’s two of his.

ANDREW WILSON: Okay, hang on.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I sent you. I sent you two of them. Okay, but the first one was the first.

ANDREW WILSON: I believe this is the first one.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay, so if you want to, if you want to pull one of them up, one of them. Play the clip. I’ll let you know which one it is. Oh, this is it. Watch.

[Video Clip Exchange]

“I’m saying exactly what I mean. I’m saying, have we got any of those grooming gangs in London? I’m unfair to you. What is meant by the question? If she could spell it out, I can answer.”

“I’ve just spelt it out. Are you not listening?”

“It’s the sort of gangs that groom young girls at a young age for sex.”

“Exactly.”

“How much clearer do you want me to be? What does she mean by that? You know full well what I mean by that.”

“It’s all over the television. You know exactly what I mean by that.”

“These gangs of people that are grooming young girls for sex, do we actually have those in London today? We need to give a full answer. Can she be clear what she means by that? I’m not sure what she means.”

“What. How much fear do you want me to be?”

“Look at the gangs that they’ve uncovered in other parts of the country. Do we have those gangs in London?”

“It’s a simple question. The answer is very simple. It’s yes or no. I’m not asking you where those gangs are because the police might not want them to be disclosed. I’m asking you, do we have those sort of gangs in London? I’m not sure why she’s so nervous to say what she means.”

“Are you? What the hell are you talking about?”

“I am saying exactly what I mean. I’m saying, have we got any of those grooming gangs in London?”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He can’t answer it.

ANDREW WILSON: He’s. What?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He’s Muslim?

ANDREW WILSON: He can’t.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He can’t say anything. He can’t. Just like when Pierce. Pierce will never talk negative about them. Piers will never say anything negative because he lives there. And what do you think Sadiq Khan is going to say that’s unbelievable. The fake arrogance, ignorance of not know. Like, what are you talking about?

Suicidal Empathy and Mass Migration

ANDREW WILSON: Suicidal empathy? Oh, my God. It always comes down to suicidal empathy. And the progressive left is the people who push suicidal empathy the most.

What’s happened in Europe, in Western Europe, and what’s happened in the UK is one of the most unjust and completely criminal things that I mean, as far as justice goes, these people have consistently voted over and over and over again for less mass migration to their nation. And their government sells them out year after year after year after year after year.

And then they go, “I don’t understand why they’re rioting in the streets. It must be because they’re a bunch of racists.” And it’s like, if they weren’t before, they certainly are now. But the thing is, again, this doesn’t happen except that you forced our hand. You forced it to happen.

These people forced the hand of the people now in the UK to actually have to do something about this. And then they’re surprised when they do. It’s like people have a set of determination. You can determine who comes into your nation. That’s up to you to do. Everyone else is allowed to do this.

Japan does this, right? Asian nations do this. Nobody’s ever screaming about Japanese xenophobia. You ever heard of leftists once, like, “Wow, we really got to do something about all the xenophobic Japanese who don’t let any immigrants into their country?” I’ve never heard it one time. Never. Because they don’t care.

Has nothing to do with that at all. It has to do with virtue signaling. This is all about virtue signaling and the suicidal empathy that comes with virtue signaling. All of you people will think well of me if I’m so suicidally empathetic that I will sell my own nation out. Hey, at least everybody thinks well of me.

Crime Statistics Under Sadiq Khan

PATRICK BET-DAVID: This is the second one he does in regards to crime rates and stabbing, how it’s been increasing and he tries to twist it and the guy holds his foot to the fire. You got to see this. Holds his hand to the fire. Go ahead. Not law and order in London under you, mate.

ANDREW WILSON: Can you sit there with a straight—

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Face and say, crime is down since—

ANDREW WILSON: You became mayor in 2016, knife crime—

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Has gone up by 27%.

ANDREW WILSON: Violence against the person has increased by 26%. Robbery has increased by 57%. Theft has increased by 37%. Shoplifting has increased by 109%. Sexual offences have increased by 64%.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: All crime since you, Sadiq Khan, became mayor of London have increased by 26%. Don’t Londoners deserve the truth about the state of crime in the capital?

ANDREW WILSON: From you, the list that was read out, theft from motor vehicle down by 18.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Over what date range?

ANDREW WILSON: Over what date range?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Over what date range? Over what date range since you became mayor of London?

ANDREW WILSON: Over what date range over the last nine years?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Not the last month, the last nine years. I know you don’t like the truth, but apologize to Londoners over your tenure that you have allowed crime to skyrocket.

By the way, they’re getting vocal. Well, is it too late? Is it too late? These guys. That’s the debate. That’s the debate.

Well, here’s the thing. Because you said this, Andrew, they didn’t vote for it. They didn’t want it, but the government’s doing it. So at what point are the people going to say enough is enough?

Because we talked about this earlier in the week. Andrew, I guarantee, if Gavin Newsom, God forbid, becomes the President of the United States in 2028, the first order of business, because he’s pro, give every illegal, doesn’t matter your status, give them health insurance. He loves it. He loves illegals. The first order of business is going to be open up the border.

At what point do we as Americans just say, hell no, and we have to get involved ourselves because when the military, they sent the military to pick up barbed wire to let these people in in Texas, like it’s a purposeful invasion. When do we, when do our soldiers, they want to talk about all these orders that the soldiers are getting for Venezuela. When do we say, no, no, we’re not doing that shit. And we have to mobilize. We have to do something because it’s happening here. 20 million people are here.

Renaissance vs. Counter Revolution

ANDREW WILSON: Well, the thing is, I’m skeptical as to how well the quote, counter revolution goes. I think a renaissance is more likely and hopefully that’s what we get as a renaissance instead of a counter revolution.

Ultimately, I don’t have a lot of faith that there’s going to be nearly as much backlash as other people have faith that there’s going to be. And here’s why. Let me explain my reasoning. There’s food in the fridge. Yep. And there’s air conditioning and you can still drive down the road. Right.

And for the average person who goes to work and goes home, these problems are still out there. Yep. They’re not in here. And until they become in here problems, most people are very passive to these types of things. And that’s how things can get so bad so quickly before people actually begin paying attention. And then usually it is too late.

What’s going on right now and what’s going to continue to happen is the left is going to continue the mass importation of people who have value structures which are different than these domestic populations, and they’re going to cover it up by any means necessary.

The last debate I did on Piers was with Mark Lamont and a few other leftists. And these leftists, not Mark Lamont, right, luckily. But the other leftists who were there, we were talking about hate speech laws in the UK and they were like, “Good, good. We’re happy that if you send a text saying that somebody is, you know, the f-slur,” the quote f-slur, which by the way, I don’t even think is a big deal to say. Right. Probably one of my favorite words on planet Earth to say, I greet friends with it. Right. I mean, greet friends with it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It’s never towards a gay person.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, it’s never, never. But the thing is, it’s like, but even if it was, who cares? You don’t send people to jail for texting the f-slur to people. That’s ridiculous. That’s insane.

This is a nation which is founded, a lot of our constitutional values come from the philosophy of English philosophers like Hume and others who were adamant about the various philosophies of freedom. And they’re just bastardizing them.

So they’ll cover it up. They’ll cover up using, they’ll throw you in jail. They’ll do any of these things, like they did with Tommy Robinson, like they do with others. And I don’t think at all, I don’t share your enthusiasm. In other words, that until the situation goes into the home itself and people are feeling the effects there, I think you’ll continue to see the same sort of passive behavior that you’ve always seen.

Now, if you can give me a week where Americans don’t have enough to eat, I’ll show you a government with all their heads on a spike, man. But until we get there, how do—

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You clean that up? How do you clean your key up?

Re-Migration and Policy Solutions

ANDREW WILSON: How do you clean it up? Well, you have to take the Sargon of Akkad. Interestingly enough, I recently watched one of his videos. He gave a bunch of criticisms to Piers Morgan. In the video, he starts the video with, “I don’t like Piers Morgan” in the very Sargon of Akkad way, right?

But in this video, what he says is, you know, he’s trying to create an academic term for re-migration. He doesn’t say, you know, throw them out. He says, “We’re going to re-migrate them.” So we’re going to re-migrate you back to your country, right? We’re going to do re-migration.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Why would they agree to it?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, they wouldn’t agree to it. That’s the thing, right? It’s like, I don’t think you’ll find agreement. But I do think that this is what the push is fast becoming in the UK from the right wing is, look, it’s not just enough now for us to cut this off, right? We’re already in it. We have to actually start removing these people and sending them away.

But of course, what is the first thing that the left does? “You’re Hitler. Hitler tried to send people away. Hitler tried to remove people groups from his country. Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Hitler.”

So, because that’s been like the kind of go-to. That’s a fascist policy, you’re going to send people away. You’re going to remove them from your nation just like the mustache painter in Germany did.

And this is why I think you see so much of the backlash from the irony bros. And let’s say the irony bros, like the Groypers, for instance, right? 90% of the time, they’re referencing the Hitler thing and this and that is to make fun of that conditional. This conditional being this: every policy I have that you don’t like doesn’t make me Hitler, you idiot. Okay?

Me wanting to remove dangerous people from my nation and migrate them back towards their country because the people here no longer want them here does not make you Adolf Hitler. That’s part of what the irony bro thing was always about. And it’s like people kind of miss the forest through the trees on that, I think.

The Nick Fuentes Strategy

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, well, I mean, I think when you see that community, I think even Nick did it on Piers, if I’m not mistaken, when he asked him about Hitler. Do you remember that exchange between Hitler?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, he took the winner. Well, I went on Piers after that and look, much like Steven Crowder and many others, I don’t agree with a lot of the Fuentes style policies, right? And we hold somewhat different values because he’s a Roman Catholic and I’m an Orthodox Christian. We don’t have exactly the same framework, but it’s very close as far as theology goes. Let’s just say it’s, you know, there’s a lot more there in common than not, but there are some fundamental disagreements.

But the fact of the matter is, is that when Morgan was doing the clip thing, right? Fuentes has been through that a hundred times. You know, person plays bad clip, how dare you clutch his pearls, right? We’ve been past that for a long time.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Him.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, we’ve, we as a nation have been past that for a long time. We’ve heard it all right? “Grab him by the pussy.” Didn’t work. That whole campaign didn’t work. Trump making fun of fat chicks, right? Everyone clutches their pearls. It didn’t work, right? That stuff doesn’t work.

Fuentes’ strategy in that debate, at least he said his strategy was to basically just bite the bullet and say, “Yeah, sure, whatever. So anyway, you want to engage with my policy prescriptions now?” And it just took all the wind out of the sails, you know what I mean? And that was the whole point.

And I think that that’s been the point of the irony bro thing for a long time. The whole thing is like, if you’re going to call us this, what happens if we go, “Okay,” and embrace it? Right. And then say, “But what about the actual policies? Can you tell us what’s unethical or what’s bad or this or that?” Right.

And the answer is no, they can’t. They can’t. Now, do I think optically that that’s wise? No, but you know what I mean, it seems to have worked fine for him.

Chase and the Whatever Podcast

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah. You’ll debate a lot of feminists on this Whatever podcast that you—

ANDREW WILSON: By the way, there was a guy—

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That was on it a few years ago. I haven’t seen him for two years. Do you know I’m talking about the good looking guy that used to—

ANDREW WILSON: Chase.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Chase?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Chase used to be with a girl named Eva.

ANDREW WILSON: Iva. Eva.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Eva something. Beautiful girl from Netherlands or something like that. They came to our house one time and we had lunch with them. Chase is another talent. I haven’t seen him for a minute.

ANDREW WILSON: Very, very smart guy. Very nice guy. Been friends with him for a couple of years. Him and my wife are friends as well. They talk back and forth on what happened to him. You know, he went off and did his own thing. I’m not really—

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is he still creating content or—

ANDREW WILSON: No, he launched a show recently. He did his own show. Yeah, yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He’s also capable.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh yeah, yeah. He’s doing very well. He doesn’t do arguments the same way that I do. But I think that the angle that he comes at it is just as valuable in many respects.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I think he also smokes cigarettes.

ANDREW WILSON: He does, does he? Maybe he does.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I remember it specifically that he smoked cigarettes. We talked about it.

ANDREW WILSON: Maybe I had one with him. I’m not selling anybody out. Okay. I’m not selling anybody out. I can neither confirm nor deny.

The Art of Debate and Entertainment

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, but I remember when he was there, just watching him, I’m like this guy, if he gets it together, he can really do something. What I mean by get it together is knowing what direction he wants to go because he was. You have a different style. What’s the main host name? The main.

ANDREW WILSON: Brian Atlas. Brian.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Brian Atlas. Brian is a good host. He’s a good point guard. Very good point guard. Manages the entire thing very well. What’s his background by the way?

ANDREW WILSON: Brian’s. Yeah. Well, Brian had a prank channel for years on YouTube. Got it. Until he moved into this type of content. A very talented guy, very, very smart guy. And he also is one of the like few guys in this sphere that I actually trust.

Oh yeah? Yeah. He’s done. He’s never done anything but right by me. Very, very good guy. And there’s very few of them. And I don’t know what it is about entertainment specifically, but it does not breed good people, usually at all.

Feminism and Modern Dating

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So here’s the clip I want to play for you, Kai. Feminism. And my goal is to try to turn you into a feminist by the time you’re done watching this video. But I don’t think it’s going to work, Andrew. So brace for impact.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m ready.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Open up your open mindedness and see if this changes your mind. Vinny, have you seen this or not? Okay, first of all, you guys are going to love this clip. Go ahead.

ANDREW WILSON: Go ahead, Rob. All right, here’s that check for you, sir. Sir.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: First of all, do not assume my pronouns.

ANDREW WILSON: Second of all, how dare you assume that because I’m a man that I’m going to be paying for this whole dinner? Women are fully capable of paying for themselves. Oh, I’m. I’m sorry.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Do you want me to split the bill between each other?

ANDREW WILSON: Actually, why don’t we do this so we can really drive this point home for you? Because you’re giving me very misogynistic vibes right now. Read the entire bill and she will pay for the entire thing because she.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is a strong, independent woman who does.

ANDREW WILSON: Not need a man to provide for her as a feminist woman.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Wouldn’t you agree with that?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Okay. Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: In that case, here’s the check, ma’am.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m sorry. Okay. Canceled. I cannot believe how toxic that guy was. Wait, how toxic? Oh, my God, this is expensive.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You nodded. Give me a push, b.

ANDREW WILSON: Give me a push. Max, are you going to help me? Absolutely not. As a feminist man, I don’t want.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: To imply that you can’t defend yourself.

ANDREW WILSON: Just.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You’re a woman.

ANDREW WILSON: Are you serious right now? Yeah. What? Yeah. All right. I’m getting the conservative.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What a great clip.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, right.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: 60 seconds, everything out.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You know what? You can pay for it. Yeah. Even the burglar. Protect yourself. The burglar was like, wait, what?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, no, I kind of want to conservative. My life is what I want.

ANDREW WILSON: Probably 60% of the conversations with feminists revolve around the idea that that video is trying to convey, which is you can’t have equality and equity, but then also demand privilege in society at the same time. And that’s what those all are, aren’t they?

What he’s really pointing out is you’re getting all sorts of privileges that would never be afforded to me. It’s instantly assumed I pay your bill. It’s instantly assumed that I protect you. It’s instantly assumed that you get the spot on the lifeboat if we’re on the Titanic. This is all instantly just assumed. It’s baked into the pie. Right.

Well, the thing is, is that if that’s the case, what are men getting? This was my argument with what’s her name, Tomi Lahren. Right. The idea on. And that was a huge viral clip on Piers Morgan as well, with Tomi Lahren, where I took her to task on this very same concept.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What was the topic?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, in this case we were discussing, she was basically saying that men are a bunch of sassy pants man babies now and this and that. And I took her to task on it and pointed out to her that, well, you can. You’ll see in the clip, I guess.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is this it?

ANDREW WILSON: I believe so.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Let’s see a glimpse of it.

The Tomi Lahren Debate

ANDREW WILSON: So I’m really anxious to weigh in. Okay, so I think over the last probably 10 years, there has been what I call the pussification of men. It was everything should be about your emotions and your feelings. And men were emasculated. And this whole concept of toxic masculinity warped the minds of a lot of young men.

And they felt masculine. They wanted to be masculine, but society was telling they should be softer, that it was being toxically masculine. If you wanted to play sports and chop wood and go to war. And so men were so emasculated and so beat down that then there was this revolution of what was actually toxic masculinity, the Tate brothers and others, which I feel, as a female, that that doesn’t true masculinity.

That, to me, represents douchebaggery. And as a woman, I want a strong man who is a protector and a provider that will go to war if need be, that will protect me, protect my family, make money, I see that as being actually masculine. That’s like the man that I grew up with, my dad.

But what we’re seeing now is these young men who look at Andrew Tate and the Tate brothers and they see somebody who’s just, quite frankly, a douchebag and disrespects women. And because they’ve been so emasculated, they’re like, oh, great, that’s a manly man. But that’s not right either.

So at some point, I think we’ll go back to maybe meeting in the middle here. You can be a man who has feelings and emotions, but you can also go and protect and defend your family.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I’m hoping that’s not a girl, a guy.

ANDREW WILSON: But the two extremes, men.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And quite frankly, I thought it was very gay.

ANDREW WILSON: And that’s the real tragedy here.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You see, I completely agree with you. But Andrew, you were shaking your head quite vigorously. Why?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, I mean, it’s just more feminine or feminist nonsense ultimately. And the covert feminism in society is big, especially on the conservative side. So here’s what happens, right? Women need to have feminine virtues for men to be pursuing masculine virtues.

For you to say things like, well, men. What I want is for men to protect me, and I want men to make money. Well, that’s great. What that ends up doing is it gives you a set of privilege in society. What do men get? What do men get for doing that for you? What are we getting from women for doing that?

Are we getting chaste virgins on our wedding night? No, we’re not getting chaste virgins on our wedding night. Are we getting women of great virtue? No, we’re not getting women of great virtue. The idea of courtly love is supposed to be done for women of great virtue. Where are they? Well, they’re nowhere.

And so in modernity, in society, when conservative influencer, female conservative influencers say this, it’s actually a form of covert feminism. They’re saying, I want privilege in society. Right. But what is it women are giving to men to get it?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What?

ANDREW WILSON: What are they giving them?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What did she say?

ANDREW WILSON: She had no answer. She said. She said, men are just wired to do it. That was her response. Men are just. I just believe men are wired to do that. Yes. I kid you not. That was her response. I believe men are.

That’s why it went so viral, because she said, I just think that. I just think men are wired that way. They’re wired to be my slave. They’re wired to go and make my money and put me in a position of privilege and this and that. In fact, you’re lucky. Don’t you feel lucky that you’re allowed to do that for her? You’re a lucky guy. You’re a real lucky guy.

Losing Your Cool in Debates

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Who has spooked you in a debate? Who’s gotten you raged. Who’s gotten you fully, like, pissed off? Where you’re like, you wanted to, you know, destroy them, but they actually got you a little bit.

ANDREW WILSON: I mean, that’s happened a few times in various debates. The thing is, I’ve debated with hundreds of people over the years. You know what I mean? And over that course, you’re going to lose your cool from time to time.

People often will take personal jabs. They’ll attack you. This. And that’s very trendy for people to attack my wife, for instance. They know that one of the pathways to attack somebody who has a family is what it’s through the family. Right. This is a way that they can try to get a rise out of you. Various things like this.

So there’s been multiple instances where this has happened, where, you know, I’m human, I’m going to get upset from time to time. Usually that’s not the case. I don’t think that you can judge or assess a person’s entire body of work on whether or not they get upset here and there when they’re debating various people. Especially if people are bad faith or they’re clip farming. I get that a lot. I’ll be debating with people, especially TikTokers, and they’re all just clip farming. They’re looking for rage bait, in other words.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah. So what’s his name? Muhammad Ali. As much as they call him the greatest of all time. The guy has lost six times. You know this, right? Do you know his record?

ANDREW WILSON: Muhammad Ali?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah. He’s the goat. Is he?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Who would you put ahead of him? Look at his record. 56 and 5. 56 and 5. And if you ever go to the Muhammad. Didn’t we go to the Muhammad Ali Museum together? Yeah, we did.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And you see all the times you go downstairs, they got this place in a basement, which that day we were there. Who was there?

ANDREW WILSON: Bob Costas was there.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Bob. Bob Costa. Who’s this guy? Bob Carson? The Bob. Yeah. Can you pull up Bob Costas to see if that’s him or not? I think it was Bob Costas.

ANDREW WILSON: He was there.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, yeah. By the way, the guy loves Trump. He’s a Trump lover, that guy. I saw him with a MAGA shirt on and then he took that one off and he had another one.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, complete.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: This guy cannot stand him. He’s like, yes. But I, I would say, you know, he, you know, at first, at first when we went to the museum, I thought he was a jockey.

ANDREW WILSON: Is he on the smaller side?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, because we’re there for the derby. So I thought one of the like veteran, well known jockeys was 5’7″. Pat looked at him and went like this, hey, good luck tomorrow. I was like, wow, let me go ask him, like, can I get an autograph maybe? It’s a legendary. There’s no way he’s 5’7″.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh my.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: There’s no way he’s 5’7″. No, he’s strong.

ANDREW WILSON: He’s not 5’7″.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, he’s. He’s lower than that. But they have me as 5’10” over there. I’m frickin 5’8″ and a half. No, I thought, I thought, I was like, listen. Well, it’s into a picture with a legendary jazzy. It’s so funny. That is Bob Costas.

So. By the way, Bob, if you forgive me, I just. For sure, for a split second I thought it was like I wanted to get an autograph with some of the jackets. I love going to the derby. And then you’re like, I think that’s Bob Costas. Totally threw me off. Go ahead.

ANDREW WILSON: I was saying, interestingly enough with debates, there’s people who you can beat on 90% of the topics who might be able to beat you on 10% of them.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I agree.

ANDREW WILSON: So it depends on the person, the topic, the situation. Right.

The Art of Debate: Knowing Your Strengths

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You know Sam Showman? You know Sam Showman? Who? Sam Shimon was here. He says, if you want me to debate an atheist, I’m not the guy. If you want me to debate a, you know, whatever other. I’m not the guy. I’m the guy. You want me to debate Muslims, that’s it. Quran, I’m that guy. Yep. Anybody else? Anything else? I’m not your guy for it. If it’s that topic, I’ll show up. If it’s not, I won’t show up. Know your strength. Good point.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. And I understand that completely now. I have a much wider array of things that I debate than most debaters do. Much, much wider. Everything from feminism to communism to, I mean, you name it, and I’ve probably been on the other end debating it and I have to debate it competently.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And who have you debated that you would like to debate?

ANDREW WILSON: David Pakman?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You have not.

ANDREW WILSON: I’ve been asking. I’ve been asking. They’ve sent him emails. Multiple people have tried to set it up. And the guy’s just a chicken shit. He just refuses to debate with me. Just refuses. But he’s been on my list for a while of, yeah, him. And then Parker from TikTok, he’s been ducking a moderated debate with me.

The only way he’ll debate most of these TikTokers is if you have to go to their channel where they can mute you. Right. Where they can lower your audio where it’s completely and fundamentally unfair. That’s the only way they’ll do a debate. And so I offered Parker $10,000, this guy, to do a moderated debate.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And he won’t do it.

ANDREW WILSON: And he won’t do it. No, these guys, he’s the biggest. Yeah. Biggest chicken that I’ve ever seen in my life.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And so.

ANDREW WILSON: And I’ve tangled with him on Pierce and other places like this. He always loses. But I understand why they don’t want to do moderated debates because they can’t just click the mute button and then that’s the end of it.

But yeah, wide variety of topics I’m always happy to get into all across the political spectrum. And even I do engage somewhat in theology, though I think that there’s better apologists than I am. For sure. That’s not my strength. My strength is the political arm. So that’s what I do.

But yes, it does depend the person, the day, what the topic is, this and that. You know what I mean? So if I’m debating with Destiny on meta ethics, he’s going to lose. Right. But it’s possible that we could be debating on some other topic that he beats me like.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Video games or something like that.

ANDREW WILSON: Or you know, there could be some political thing that he’s been studying non-stop that he’s just more familiar with than me. Maybe he beats the tar off of me on those. Right. Or beats tar out of me on those. But then he gets into metaethics and he completely gets destroyed and devastated.

So there’s a lot of that that goes on. Some of these debates will go for five or six hours. You know, like the last debate that I had there where it went viral because this chick basically said that my wife should have killed her kids and that would have made her less promiscuous. That’s what she said. Not kidding.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Who’s this?

The Six-Hour Debate

ANDREW WILSON: I don’t even want to get into it. But anyway, that’s what she said. So ultimately what happens is this. With this chick. I was debating with her for six hours, right. She finally took a. For what she finally took up. Well, we just went over a huge wide variety of topics. She got beaten on every single topic.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is she a famous debater?

ANDREW WILSON: No, she’s basically. No, not at all.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is she a be back on whatever, like to people that watch whatever have seen her many times.

ANDREW WILSON: One time.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay, so how did she get on the show?

ANDREW WILSON: I don’t know. So again, Brian, like, what are you doing when it comes to Brian? He knows this about me, right? I’m probably, if you offer me a debate, I’m probably just going to go do the debate. Like that’s likely going to happen. It doesn’t really matter with who.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You debated this girl for six hours.

ANDREW WILSON: Mm.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What. What. What are you guys talking about for six hours?

ANDREW WILSON: She’s a communist feminist. So we went over a wide array of topics. So this is like, yeah, six hour debate. Naima, I’ve done four or five hour debates with the Jubilee All Star. Right. I do think that that’s way too long for a debate. I think, you know, two or three is much more reasonable.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Oh, I’ve seen her. Yeah, I’ve seen her with. Oh, she. She’s the one that looked at Charlie when Charlie smiled and said, “Ooh, that’s a bad smile.” And she tried to disrespect them right off the bat.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, well, I don’t like that. If you ever want to see her, she started the debate with me by saying she was a Jew All Star, and then called herself that. Yeah, and I took, I spent a good two hours just completely dismantling her. Made her look like the dumbest person on planet Earth. Because she is.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: She though she’s smart or.

ANDREW WILSON: No, she’s an idiot. Complete moron.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Qualified.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, yeah. If you want to laugh your ass off tonight, go home and watch the debate that I did with her. The last debate that I did with her in this series where she claims she’s a Jubilee All Star. And watch her. I make her argue against her own position and she doesn’t even know I’m doing it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What’s this clip wrap?

ANDREW WILSON: What is.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Let’s watch maybe two of these clips. And now let’s wrap it up. This one is what it says here.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m insulting each other during debate on whatever podcast. 23.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Do you know what this one’s about or.

Debate Clips: Ethical Frameworks and Personal Attacks

ANDREW WILSON: No, I don’t. I don’t know. Through your worldview, can you explain how forced doctrine is wrong outside of preference or not? No, Andrew, by the way, what I was just doing is proving through your own ethical framework why you don’t deserve shit. You don’t deserve a thank you for women from following the teachings of your own ethical framework brought to you by your God.

Why should women thank men? That’s what you wanted. You wanted a thank you from women for, not us for doing the absolute bare minimum, which your own ethical framework acknowledged is the absolute bare minimum. But that’s my. You’re just making my point. Are all men Christians? No. Then should we thank them?

Well, yes, they’re following their own secular ethical framework that is teaching them not to just maim. So you should say. So you should thank men. Well, I mean, not you. I didn’t say me. You said men. So you should thank men. I guess I should think natural law. Thank you. Natural law. I agree.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What.

ANDREW WILSON: Because it’s objectively immoral to kill people? Objectively immoral. I just can’t demonstrate it. Do you not think that is objectively only from my view? But not from yours? No. From everyone’s view? No, not from. No. Literally. It’s not literally from everyone’s view? Kind of. Yeah. Kind of. No. Kind of. Yeah. Okay. From a Muslim view, is it objectively immoral to take away rights from women? I mean, I’m not Muslim.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That’s the argument.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, but.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But I watched her on Charlie. That’s the place. I’ve seen her.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Where she was on the debate with Charlie. And what’s the other one Rob do? To do one more and then the six hour debate girl. This is the six hour debate girl. Go ahead.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m going to. I’ll try to rephrase this. I’m going to reframe and I’m just going to be totally honest with you. I will never be able to convince you of my worldview. You won’t. I know, but the reason is not because I’m not a great orator or I don’t make good points or I haven’t said things which should be compelling to a person. But Charlie, I just think honestly, you’re too stupid to understand them, which is true.

So, Andrew, can I. Your wife has three baby daddies and has been married twice before. And you under and you lick sniz. I still think that’s funny. Don’t talk about my wife, you stupid bitch. Shut your f*ing mouth. Shut your stupid mouth. Your wife with the three baby. What did I just say? Sorry. I’m sorry. Dyke. Is she morally inconsequential in comparison to your ditch licking the men that you try to do, the women that you try to your hatred.

You know, Charlie, Did I bring. Charlie, Did I bring your family? Did I bring any of your family into anything stupid? Did I say anything about your family being stupid? Charlie. It’s because I’m better than you, Charlie. No, it’s because you’re embarrassed.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And you know that the traditional values.

ANDREW WILSON: That you try to sell people are because you are not a traditional man. Chuck, let’s go through it. You are not a traditional man. Let’s go through it. Chuck. Tell me what I’m doing, which is immoral.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Chuck. Six hours.

ANDREW WILSON: Jeez.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What did you say to her?

ANDREW WILSON: What?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What she said.

The Abortion Argument

ANDREW WILSON: Well, from there, what she did was she tried to go on to say that I’m a hypocrite because I tell men not to get married to single moms, which is not true. I have a nuanced position, which is it works out not so good for most people, but there’s nothing ethically which is wrong with that.

And then went on to say that she had slept with 10 guys and she’s in her early 20s, right? She slept with 10 guys. And that’s okay because abortion is there. And so abortion basically hides the crime. And so what my wife should have done is just have a series of abortions. And if she had done that, then she wouldn’t be viewed as promiscuous by society. That was her argument. Abortion is there to hide the crime. Jeez.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That’s her argument.

ANDREW WILSON: That’s her argument. What a sick person. So what happened is a sequence of TikTokers who absolutely hate me clipped this up out of context, right. And put it out there as though I was having some kind of meltdown. Clearly not rewatching that just now. It doesn’t look like a meltdown to me.

It looks to me like I am defending myself and defending my position. And this chick went personal and so I gave her the personal jabs back. That’s how it goes in debates.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is she lesbian or straight?

ANDREW WILSON: She’s a detransitioner.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What does that mean?

ANDREW WILSON: It means that she was a female to male trainee.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I can’t go like, that’s too technical. Did you chop off anything? Okay, that’s a guy.

ANDREW WILSON: No, girl she identified, but took a bunch of hormones to become a guy. Oh, man. Is what she did. And then detransitioned from that.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Why would she. Why would she. Why would she do that?

ANDREW WILSON: Why? Why?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: If you’re going to go for it, what was the. Was there an explanation for why.

ANDREW WILSON: No.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: She went to he and them back.

ANDREW WILSON: I wasn’t. I wasn’t particularly. Was she attractive?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: She looks attractive.

ANDREW WILSON: I don’t know, but I wasn’t particular.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I’m asking that, like, what causes an attractive girl to do that?

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, well, she has a mind virus. She has a leftist mind virus. Like, she’s all about the gays and all about the. You know, she’s all about that shit.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So now. So now she’s. She’s back to a woman, but she’s dating women.

ANDREW WILSON: She’s with women and men.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Oh, she’s okay. So she’s, she doesn’t discriminate.

The Hypocrisy Debate and Single Motherhood

ANDREW WILSON: She wants. Yeah, she does both. Yeah. So what happened there was that exchange, right? When she tried to take a shot, I took a shot back and then went on to debunk her point. I disproved it. And she said that women should be having abortions to basically cover up their promiscuity. That was what her actual argument was.

But what her initial attempt was was that I was some kind of hypocrite within my own ethical view, but never could demonstrate how. So I was like, how? What’s the hypocrisy? What’s wrong with a Christian dating a woman who has children?

And apparently the perceived hypocrisy is that, well, you give men, you tell men that that’s a low value woman or that they can’t be loved. And I’m like, I’ve never said any of that sh. What the hell are you talking about?

And I think what happens is because I’m in red pill spaces a lot, or I’m in manosphere spaces a lot, debating with feminists and other people, that people attribute their worldview to me, even though I’ve never said any of this sh. I don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. I just had done in this debate series previously.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah. To be fair to you, a guy from Lila Rose’s community, as a man may say that, but that’s not you. You understand what I’m saying? Like, you know how their position is. The I’m saving myself, I don’t drink, I don’t do this, I don’t do that. And I played right my entire life. And you shouldn’t do this. You’re not saying that.

ANDREW WILSON: No, that’s not the point.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Even at the beginning of the podcast, you said, I don’t even like giving people advice.

ANDREW WILSON: I don’t because it’s true.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You know, it may or may not work well.

ANDREW WILSON: And the thing is that unless you’re intricately familiar with a person, you’re probably going to give them bad advice. And people, the thing that’s really funny about this is people often will lie to you. They don’t want to tell you the exact details of what’s going on, even when they’re asking you for advice, because they want to be judged a certain way.

And this actually hurts the advice process as well. Right? Because now you’re giving them advice based on things they may not even be telling you the truth about, which could lead them astray, too. That’s not my thing.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I can understand the argument, though. I can understand the argument of somebody saying, you claim to be this, but then you ended up with a girl. That I can understand that argument.

ANDREW WILSON: Yes, but it has to have merit.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It has to have merit. And not only that, the hypocrisy comes if you judge others who did that. And if you do, you’re going to get pushed. Better if you’re doing that. But if it’s like, listen, here’s the reason I was a mess. I was partying, I was drinking, I was doing this. I found her. She changed my life. We went through a season together.

ANDREW WILSON: We dated for six years.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: We didn’t get married right off the bat. We were not ready to. Six years later, we did. We’ve been married for 12 years. This is how our stories. Okay, great.

ANDREW WILSON: Well, advocation too, is situations require nuance. There may be times where I attack a single mother for the conditional of being a single mother, depending on why. So, for instance, let’s say that there’s a woman who says, I’m a single mom by choice because I hate men and don’t want my kid to have a father in their life. Right? I’m definitely going to attack that position. But that’s not attacking her because she’s a single mother. That’s attacking the conditionals around why.

The Pop the Balloon Viral Video

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, I saw a video the other day. Oh, my God. I cannot, Vinnie, I cannot tell you how impressed and confused I was with the way you. Because it’s not common. Let me see if this is the one, Rob. I’m going to send it to you, see if you can pull this up. They’re having a conversation. She’s looking at that. She’s talking to guys, says, what would you want to do on the first date? This is the one, Rob.

ANDREW WILSON: Okay.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You know this thing where you pop the balloon? I don’t know if you’ve seen the pop the balloon stuff that you know.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay. So this one guy comes up and the school in the red dress. Is this the one, Rob? Do you have it? You got to see this, Vinnie. I have a feeling you’re going to try to find her and slide in her DMs. Okay. You’ll see why in a minute. Wholesome Christian.

ANDREW WILSON: Vinny.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Just watch. Just watch. Go ahead. That’s the one.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m going to let you ask the question. Because you are the initiator. And I’ll follow that.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Okay, so what does your initial first date look like with a man?

ANDREW WILSON: My initial first date is asking him where he wants to bring me. And daytime, is he a planner? So I will know kind of where he’s at and what he has in store and what type of life I would be walking into. So my initial first date would be up to the man. I would not want to be the one planning that.

Okay, well, I wasn’t saying like plan.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Like, what type of stuff would you want to do on a first date, as far as are you interested?

ANDREW WILSON: I want to do what he wants to do. Oh, I like that. Yeah. Okay. Because I’m there to learn him and I’m there to know him.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But he to learn you too, though.

ANDREW WILSON: And he’ll learn me when I walk into his world. Oh, God damn. Okay, but walk into my world first. I’m not providing a world for you. So you get it really doesn’t matter.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: She’s like, show me she’s right or not. Let him keep.

ANDREW WILSON: What have I cultivated? Have I nurtured my world? Where can my world take him right when I enter his world? So that’s why I won’t present the preconceived notion of what I want to do, because he might show me something new. And now I just limited myself.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Lower the music. So what I was already exposed to.

ANDREW WILSON: And I never gave him a chance to set me into his world.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So damn. Okay, that guy. Can we bring her up here or what? Like, I want to know what you think about that.

Chameleons and Femcons

ANDREW WILSON: I mean, here’s the thing. You got to be cautious. So after having talked to just.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I’d like, I’d love to have the appropriate place for her to be. Is on the.

ANDREW WILSON: Whatever podcast. Well, maybe. But the thing is, is after having talked with hundreds of women. Yeah. On that podcast. And male feminists as well. There are chameleons and femcons and things like this who will adopt this worldview and pretend that it’s their worldview when it’s really not.

And it’s a way for them to compete in a hypergamous nature for what they consider a high value man to be. They’re adopting the talking act. Can be. It’s not always, but it can. You know her? No, I don’t know who she is.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Do you know her, Rennie? Not yet, but I’m.

ANDREW WILSON: I’m just always cautious for my world.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Just see me like this because I’ve heard.

ANDREW WILSON: I’ve heard this type of spiel many times before and I ask a couple of questions and the whole thing falls apart.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What are the two questions? What do you ask?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, usually I’ll just ask things like, who’s the ultimate decider and why? Like why does a man, why is the man, why is, why does he get to be the ultimate decider in this thing? How come if you have, like, let’s say that the two of you have a disagreement, you can’t come to terms. Yeah. And you feel very strongly about it. Why does he, why do you, why do you defer to him? Why does he get to make the ultimate decision?

And oftentimes you’ll hear him say things very quickly. They change their tune into things like why we just wouldn’t be with a person if we came to an impasse that we couldn’t agree on. And I’m like, well, you realize in relationships that’s going to happen and most people don’t know that.

Most people haven’t been in long term enough relationships to realize impasses do happen. And one person actually does have to ultimately be the decider when that impasse happens and the other person is going to have to go along with it or else there’s not going to be a relationship.

Like, there’s going to be a point in almost every relationship where that happens. And for a lot of these people, they don’t even understand that. They have no concept of that. They think that everything is a discussion and a democracy. And, you know, the two of us will come to some kind of even ground here. And it’s like, that’s not always the case. And when it’s not the case, you’re going to have to defer to one of you. So which one, which one gets to make the decision?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So she says the man.

ANDREW WILSON: Well, if she says the man, I usually will just ask, and why? Why the man?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Because he’s a leader of the household.

ANDREW WILSON: Usually they’ll say some things like that, but sometimes they’ll usually revert back to, well, I just wouldn’t be with a person like that. Right. And it’s like if they say, because he’s the head of the household and I have a traditional upbringing, that’s why. That’s a fair answer. Right.

But the Femcon will say, I just wouldn’t be with a man like that. I want a man who’s, I’m equally yoked with ultimately. Right. And blah, blah, blah. And it comes back down to egalitarianism. So I’m just always cautious on first answers because women, not just women, but men, too, like to put their best foot forward. Yeah, right. And so you just got to be cautious.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Well, listen, the reason why I played that out is because Vinnie and her have been dating for seven months and I wanted to see what you were going to say about her. He fell for it.

ANDREW WILSON: I love it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What the. So true. She cheated on me on the second date. No, there’s no relation. We never met her before. We just have fun with you.

Where to Find Andrew Wilson

Well, Andrew, you know, there’s characters online that I watch, and I’m interested in them as a human being. I did the same thing with, you know, other guys. I brought them. I think we did one with Nick a couple months ago just to find out why he believes in what he believes in. And you learn more.

This was a great exercise, learning more about you. And anybody that’s watching this that wants to ask this man any question, for him to piss you off or for you to piss him off, you can ask a question. I believe I’m manect. If I’m not mistaken. Rob, Natalia was telling me the account was set up in a past. So if we can set that up for him to be able to ask the question. You can ask him the question on my neck. And where can people find you?

ANDREW WILSON: What podcast? You can find me on the crucible on YouTube. I also have a daily show on Rumble called the Extravaganza that runs four days a week, Monday through Thursday. And you can also find me on Twitter X. Maybe I shouldn’t say Twitter X anymore, just X. I guess I still say Twitter Tweet. Tweeted.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Send a tweet.

ANDREW WILSON: It’s way more catchy, isn’t it? Twitter? It is. It’s way more catchy.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Like, what are you doing next?

ANDREW WILSON: You just post.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I just posted something on.

ANDREW WILSON: I still posted. Yeah, exactly words. But yeah, I’m there. I’m at Paleo Christcon on X. And you can also find, let’s see, what else do I have going on? That’s the main ones.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Let’s put those below Rob and Andrew, God willing, you’ll get a chance to debate Pacman. And we’ve had him here before. He was a great salesperson at Circuit City back in the day. Seemed to love getting paid commission. Bring that up when you do talk to.

ANDREW WILSON: Oh, man, I should have talked out into one more story with you. What’s that? The Unf America tour. You know what that is? Have you ever heard of that? No. The Unf America tour. It’s a real thing. Okay, so you’re speaking about Destiny and these people, right?

The Unfuck America Tour and Debate Negotiations

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, no, I’m talking about Pacman.

ANDREW WILSON: I know. Yeah, I know, but these all. I think all these people, including Pacman, I’m not sure if he’s associated with it, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Basically what they did was they followed around Charlie Kirk. This was a bunch of TikTokers and things like this. They followed around TPUSA in order to do debates on the same college campuses TPUSA was doing.

Well, now they have. They’re going across the street from AmFest in order to do some debates, reached out to me to negotiate a debate with Destiny and some other guy. Right. So we get through, or we’re going into negotiations, this and that. I go ahead and decline. Right. Based on some of the criteria that I didn’t like. And that was it. Right. That’s the end of the negotiations.

The head of Unfuck America goes on Twitter, starts calling me, and there was Myron Gaines, a coward, and all sorts of other things on this debate that we had not even agreed to do. We were just in negotiations for. Right. Z or something like that. How is it that this organization is going to bring right wingers in to do these debates with their leftists if you can’t even negotiate with them without them.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is this Amy Zellmer?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Z. Cohen. Yeah, this one. I thought that that was the. Okay, now maybe I got this wrong. I thought that that was a trans. Honestly, I did.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I thought it was a trans. That’s the founder of it.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Well, I don’t know if it’s a founder, but I think. Can I see the picture, Rob?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yes, go back. I just want to see the picture. Like. Well, you can’t really tell.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, it just.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I wouldn’t be able to say guy or girl.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, I’m not trying to be a jerk.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I’m just.

ANDREW WILSON: I get it. I did. I thought. I thought so, but I guess I was wrong about that. But anyway, Zeke, Colin Sanchez. Yeah. Just freaks. Freaks out about this whole thing. Even though it never. It never got past the negotiation phase for an actual debate. It’s the wildest thing in the world.

But yeah, this is the what’s called the Unfuck America tour. Just totally useless leftists who basically are piggybacking off of the success of TPUSA and Republican organizations to try to bait people in for debates. Wildest thing I’ve ever seen.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Interesting.

ANDREW WILSON: This all comes from another. They had another one before this. Another that all these streamers were involved in. It wasn’t called the Unfuck America tour then, but basically an organization came in and bought up Twitch Politics and the streamers who were in Twitch Politics as well, and tried to turn them into a political apparatus. And it was a big disaster. So I can’t wait to see this thing crash and burn either.

Candace Owens and the Turning Point USA Controversy

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Where are you at with Turning Point USA, Candace, all that stuff? Have you commented on that or.

ANDREW WILSON: No? I think that Candace is crazy.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Really?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. Tell me why. Because she. I spent a lot of time. It’s true, I didn’t like her already because she attacked Steven Crowder when he needed her the most. Right. But that wasn’t. I listened very carefully to what she was saying on the Brigitte Macron situation. Never a single piece of positive evidence that she brought to the table. Nothing.

But when it came to the Charlie Kirk stuff, it’s much, much, much worse. Almost no positive evidence. But the most important thing that drove me crazy is the lack of charitability. Meaning there people at the TPUSA camp post assassination, they were coming out, they were talking, they were discussing their various experiences. They were there, right?

Well, when people have an event like that, they get details sometimes wrong, right? They don’t have perfect recall in the details. So for instance, she was harping on a guy who said, you know, I remember the very first thing this other dude said was, you know, I got to call Erica. And she’s like, well, you know, that wasn’t actually the first phone call they made. They made a different phone call and then called Erica. And it’s like, who gives a shit, right? What does that mean? That’s not telling us anything that’s useful here. That’s not giving us actual information.

It’s just being completely uncharitable to the person who may not have perfect recall after this traumatic event or may remember events differently. Which is why most of the time eyewitness testimony is considered somewhat unreliable in court. Because people are flawed. They’re less, you know, they have less than perfect memories. They remember things out of sequence, or they might. They may remember an event very vividly, but then give it added context or take context away from it. That’s just how human beings operate.

And most of the conjecture and conspiracy theories she puts up are due almost 100% just to a lack of charitability of what another person is saying. And it’s like if she had just added a just a small amount of charitability when these people are telling their stories, she’d walk away with wildly different conclusions.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Well, I was going to ask the one.

ANDREW WILSON: Thing because I haven’t a. I don’t have the time. I’m not.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I. We adore Charlie, but I don’t have.

ANDREW WILSON: Time to sit there and watch the.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Whole three month soap opera saga. I cannot do it. I haven’t. I have so much stuff going on in my life. But the one thing that I just saw recently was the somebody Charlie text Andrew Colbert or somebody the night before. This is like this has just been.

ANDREW WILSON: Proven with a conversation with Erica Kirk. And it’s a fact.

The “They Want to Kill Me” Text Message

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Charlie texted someone, I think one or two Pat, the night before and said, “They are trying to kill me,” full stop. The real question is, what would make. I know people sometimes say, like I just said before this podcast, these guys, they want to kill me. I know they do. They text it, they’re saying it. What would make Charlie, the day before he was actually assassinated, say “They are trying to kill me.”

ANDREW WILSON: And who didn’t. He didn’t. The text actually said “The left is trying to kill me.” And that just came out. “The left is trying to kill me.” And this was, this is what I mean by a lack of charitability. So when that’s a bold claim, right? “They’re trying to kill me.”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, “They are trying to kill me.”

ANDREW WILSON: A whole different statement than “The left is trying to kill.”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Is that what it actually was?

ANDREW WILSON: It’s wants. It’s wants, by the way, I don’t think trying. It’s wants. And I believe that what, that, what that actually was was “The left wants to kill me.” See, I did.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I didn’t hear the left, the left part. But to say that the day before you get assassinated, it’s pretty like, I mean, think about it. The left.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, but you see the context change, like big time. “They want to kill me.”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Or the left or the left wall.

ANDREW WILSON: Massive context change. Right.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But I mean, I would like to see that. Like again, it’s not the responsibility Now.

ANDREW WILSON: I believe now, I mean, maybe I’m getting this detail wrong and you guys can fact check me. I’m open to it right now, to being fact checked on this, but I believe that that came out in her conversation with Erica Kirk that the message actually said “The left wants to kill me.” Now, if I’m wrong about that, hey, I’ll eat crow. But I do believe that that’s what was said.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I didn’t hear that one.

ANDREW WILSON: “They are going to kill me.” As she lied over and over. It was Israel. She saw the text herself and it clearly said, they was the Left.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Well, they clearly that they. But he didn’t say it wasn’t in the text that it was the Left. It just they.

ANDREW WILSON: So meaning in the context of the.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Conversation, it was they still.

ANDREW WILSON: Still weird.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: The night before you get assassinated, the they. I don’t think he was talking about, you know, the furry loving, whatever.

ANDREW WILSON: What the hell. Even if the message itself, and maybe I’m. Maybe I’m wrong here, it didn’t say specifically “The left wants to kill me,” but the precursor contextually was a bunch of leftists are after me. And then he says, yeah, they want to kill me. You know what I mean? That’s the same exact thing, right? In context.

And this is what I mean by just that comes down to a lack of charitability. It comes down to, like, before you can make a judgment or an assessment, like, that context is critical and key. And so many people jump the gun on these things because they refuse to wait for the additional context, the key context. And so they build frames around it which are untrue.

Remember back to the very first part of the conversation with Patrick. What did my dad teach me to get to the core root. Most people believe things which are totally unfounded because they’ve been told to them, even though they have no justification for the things they say. That was one of those things. There wasn’t actually good justification for her to immediately assume they meant Israel or anything else.

And it be could easily be a simple explanation, like somebody said, leftists are trying to kill you. Oh, yeah, they’re always trying to kill me. You know what I mean? And that shifts context radically. And because of that, I find myself distrusting, very distrusting of any information which comes out of the Candace camp. I just do. Because every single time the context gets shown with it, it radically changes the situation.

Trust in the FBI and Evidence

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Do you trust the FBI?

ANDREW WILSON: I mean, yeah, I don’t think it’s a dialectic. Like they say, if you don’t trust Candace, it’s fed slop. You don’t have to trust either. You don’t have to believe that the FBI is being straightforward and this and that. In a criminal case, you don’t have to believe that at all.

But what you should do is at least wait until they provide, the state provides the evidence. This guy’s alive. He’s not dead. He’s there to answer. He can still answer questions. There’s going to be a trial. We can wait until the state presents its evidence and then poke holes in that evidence. Right, and then attack that evidence.

We don’t have to make this giant speculative leap that foreign nations, especially Israel. Charlie Kirk was the biggest f*ing Zionist on planet Earth. He was the biggest Zionist Christian I’ve ever seen. And to make this jump that Israel killed him, he was like their main cheerleader. It just, it always seemed absurd to me.

But then when you dive into it, you realize that very quickly context changes. When we have more of a clear picture, it’s like, I’m not willing to make the judgment assessment under Trump’s FBI that they’re just feeding me bullshit just yet. I want to see what they have to say and I want to see what the. Where the actual evidence leads.

Dan Bongino Stepping Down

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You saw the Dan Bongino yesterday stepping down.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. So that’s terrible.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: That’s.

ANDREW WILSON: It’s.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I mean, what is it? But here’s my thing. What would make somebody like that, who I know loves the country? That there’s no question. There’s absolutely zero questions. What makes it Dan Bongino?

ANDREW WILSON: Because I heard.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And again, you’re right. You have to wait for the. That it was going to be Cash and he was not happy with Cash Patel’s stance. But then to hear that it was Dan Bongino.

The Epstein Investigation and Dan Bongino’s Departure

ANDREW WILSON: Well, and the thing is, I remember watching Dan Bongino on the Epstein stuff on Rumble. And that guy is a real smart guy. And he dove into it. And I mean, he doesn’t know who I am, which is fair enough. This guy’s larger than life. He’s huge.

But I remember listening to him tons and tons of times on the Epstein stuff, and he was really adamant, you know, and him getting in that FBI position, people had a lot of big expectations that, hey, we got the guy in there who doesn’t blame. Then when he came out and he was like, actually, he killed himself. I think that that was such a brutal killing blow to him.

And I’m not sure. Here’s what I wonder, and I do wonder this. And this is pure speculation. So you don’t take it to the bank, anybody. Okay. Just thoughts in my head. If when he went in there, he did see some things on Epstein that were that raised his eyebrows. And he was told to basically come out and say this, and he did, and he has a lot of regrets about it. And this is the reason he’s leaving.

This is a big form of speculation that’s going on. I’m not sure that that’s in any way or shape or form the case, though. But it is something that has crossed my mind.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I saw his post when he announced he’s going into the FBI. He got a few hundred thousand likes. His post yesterday that he is stepping down, let’s see here. If you look at the post of him stepping down yesterday, “I’m leaving” right there. But 11.1 million views.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So to me, I don’t know. Thank you. I think people thought he was going to go in and do stuff with Epstein. And the interview we all watched, we were all suspect about the way he answered. And he’s doing stuff with his eyes and overreacting.

ANDREW WILSON: See now there with the Epstein stuff, there is compelling evidence. The brother of Epstein had, you know, he had his own expert come in to try to do analysis and verification on the official story. And they did present evidence that this looked like it possibly could have been a murder by suffocation and various things. And that evidence is at least compelling.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But the guy that brought in, the guy they brought in, anybody that ever hired him, the guy sided with the person that paid him. I don’t know if that makes sense.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: So anybody that hired him to investigate who was behind it always sided with the person that paid him.

ANDREW WILSON: Sure. However, that doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, it doesn’t mean he’s wrong. But if you have six patterns of that happening and the guy’s an 80 year old something guy, it’s enough.

ANDREW WILSON: To raise an eyebrow though.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: It’s enough to raise an eyebrow.

ANDREW WILSON: It’s at least some evidence.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I get it’s something you ought to consider, but it goes back to when you’re talking about, you know, when there’s an eyewitness and it happens and people misremember the sequence of what happened first.

ANDREW WILSON: Right.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Well, first they open the door, then they walked in, then they shot you. Did they shoot first, then open? I don’t remember. It’s kind of like, so you don’t. But you got to put into consideration.

But to me, when he does his first podcast in the next six months, how is he going to do a podcast? Think about it. Is it going to be “19 things I learned in the FBI that they don’t want you to know about”? He can’t do that.

ANDREW WILSON: No, of course not.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He can’t do that. So, okay, so the entire time he’s thinking about what things am I going to comment on? What are you going to comment on?

ANDREW WILSON: What if he came out and he’s a whistleblower? Then protected under whistleblower laws.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He’s not going to do that. Because I think the hardest part about, you know, when you join the mob and everything is a mob, it doesn’t matter what you think about it.

ANDREW WILSON: You’re a made man. You don’t just walk away.

The Reality of Being “Made”

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He is a made man. So if you’re going to walk away and go back to regular life, listen, you don’t think they have stuff on everything with Dan? And, you know, in this video, he’s talking about how tough it is on his marriage and how, I don’t know if you saw that interview.

Says, “You realize how tough this on my marriage. I don’t see my wife. We’re having a hard time. We’re separated right now.” He says not separated as divorce. “We’re just separated for the last six months.”

ANDREW WILSON: We really.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: This is not it. This is not like a, you know, “Oh, my God, what an awesome job. I can’t wait to be, you know, the director.” You do this pretty sh*tty job that you got.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Especially if you’re a family guy. Cash is not a family guy. Cash has got a girlfriend that he’s doing podcasts with. Totally get it. But what I’m saying is he’s got.

ANDREW WILSON: His girlfriend, Elijah Schaefer.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yes. I don’t know. She was getting sued because they said that she was a honey pot, allegedly for Israel.

ANDREW WILSON: And they sued him for like 10 million.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I think we showed it, that we made it. He made a video. You played it a while ago. About the guy saying he’s like, “Bro, I didn’t say.” Who is Elisha Schaefer?

ANDREW WILSON: He’s a podcaster.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Can you pull him up real quick, Rob? I’ll let you know the moment I see his face. Yeah, we showed it. Yeah. We made that video.

But then, and now we want to close that. You have to understand, too, like what you talk about the conscience. They really, besides the influencers holding the Epstein list, which is complete BS and was such an embarrassment with all the lying from Pam Bondi and all these people just alone. Andrew, the doctored video of splicing out moments in his jail cell, of Epstein’s jail cell. It’s like you guys took out 30 seconds. What are we doing, bro? It was, it was.

Trump and the Epstein Files

ANDREW WILSON: But you think, just to ask you directly, do you think that Trump is named in the Epstein files?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I don’t think his name is. If I had to guess and assume, I think very powerful people that he knows that gave him potentially money.

ANDREW WILSON: They’re on there. There’s a lot of. Is it a deal breaker for you?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I don’t like. I’m anti.

ANDREW WILSON: Any.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He knows this. He knows me more than anybody here. Anything with children, Andrew, as a Christian Bible reading, the major, most warning spots in the Bible, I think it’s Ephesians, chapter 12, something, something like that, verse six about harming children. That’s the worst.

You might as well tie a millstone around your neck and throw yourself in the deepest parts of the ocean, which, the symbolism is, God sees everything. Why would God say in the deepest parts of the ocean? Because he wants you out of his freaking sight.

ANDREW WILSON: If it came out that Trump, not that Trump did any of this stuff, but just people adjacent to him and he’s protecting them, it’s over. Right? I’m done.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I’m done.

ANDREW WILSON: I agree. I don’t.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I don’t play, Andrew.

ANDREW WILSON: I think that’s the correct take. Honestly, you know my position.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I love kids, but I can’t play that.

Government Blackmail Operations

ANDREW WILSON: What about, I guess my last question for you since I got you here is like, you do realize, though, that our federal government engages in blackmail operations like that all over the world, along with other governments. Sometimes to good effect. Like, sometimes, like, that’s really to our benefit that they do that. Right.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He sat there multiple times because, Andrew, great. I love that you said that. I had to wake up to that fact because I said, “Let justice be done though the heavens fall.” Meaning if we’re built on that, like, and I get what you’re saying.

How does God, the ultimate judge, look at us? Everything’s, people are manipulating each other and doing everything to further the dominance and the power of the United States. I am so anti. I get what you’re saying, and trust me, I know that they’re doing it because it didn’t start with Trump. This has been going. It’s such a powerful thing, Andrew. They’ve all been involved.

ANDREW WILSON: Well, it’s gone through four administrations.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, exactly. So my point is, my attitude is, I understand 100%. He’s explained, and I get it. It’s just, bro, I don’t. I know for a fact God isn’t going to.

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah. You know what?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Keep the pedophilia a secret because X, Y and Z are there and we have a good relationship with this country. I’m anti that 1000%. Because God, you’re not hiding from him at all.

ANDREW WILSON: He sees it all.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You were going to say something too before. No, I was going to say what he said. I was going to say what he said, which is, you know, what is the inventory of intel that we’ve shared with Mossad. Let’s say we go there.

ANDREW WILSON: I’ve had Mossad and MI6.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: And MI6. And not just MI6 and Mossad. Quite multiple intel. Say you’re sharing that intel with them and say you have had control of some of the most powerful people that are evil people in the world, and you can hang on to that for all this time so they don’t do anything dumb. Is that better to save the lives of current hundreds, if not millions of people? That’s the argument.

Okay, so you can sit there and.

ANDREW WILSON: But as a Christian. If he’s going as a Christian, he’s going from Christian.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: As the Christian argument. You’re the argument.

ANDREW WILSON: So from the ethics. But remember, from the ethics side, it’s.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Like Trump at Charlie Kirk’s memorial. What did he say? Anyways, he is his Lord and savior.

ANDREW WILSON: Not trust.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He never trust. He says, with Charlie Kirk’s Lord and savior. He never said “our.”

ANDREW WILSON: Nope.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: To Trump when he says, “I’m not going to heaven.”

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Maybe to him, he’s accepted it and he thinks, to have this job, I don’t live by the standard you live, then it is what it is.

Christian Ethics and Political Compromise

ANDREW WILSON: But if he’s saying from his standard, from the standard of Christian ethics, he’s saying, who cares? Like, even if it protects hundreds of thousands of people, it’s not worth one kid having that happen. That’s a remarkably consistent position that I can’t really beat a person up over. Because it is consistent.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: There is, but to what extent? So keep that position. To the extent of you’d be willing to replace Trump for Kamala, to the extent of you’d be willing to replace Trump for Newsom, or to the extent of you would be willing to replace Trump with a super conservative guy like a DeSantis, then that’s a different position. That’s primary.

ANDREW WILSON: But what if we flipped it a little bit? Okay, I’m willing to do all of that. If it’s the case that this behavior stops, wouldn’t that still be consistent?

So let’s say if you were to say, okay, I will replace Trump with Kamala, but only under the condition that these blackmail operations using underage kids as sexual objects also stops, and would you take the deal then?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Do you believe somebody on the progressive side is going to have that kind of a belief? But just say, hypothetically, Parenthood is a great thing.

ANDREW WILSON: Well, let’s just say hypothetically, they would. Would you make the deal then? Would you replace them then?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: What other values and principles would I need to accept that comes with that package?

ANDREW WILSON: Yeah, that’s.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Would I need to accept the package of LGBTQ? Would I need to accept the package of allow 20 million immigrants to come in? Of which.

ANDREW WILSON: Well, Trump’s not exactly hard on the LGBTQ.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: No, he’s not.

ANDREW WILSON: But.

The Complexity of Presidential Decision-Making

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But you know what his argument was in 2016 when they asked him about it in 2015? In 2015, they asked him about it. They said, so what is your position with LGBTQ? He said, isn’t that already a law? What are we talking about? Let’s move on. It was a two second conversation, and he moved on from it.

ANDREW WILSON: Right.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Because Trump is very calculating. He looks at what are the top five issues. Why would I make a 12 issue a number three issue? No. Boom. Here’s my top five issue. They’re sending their worst. They’re rapists, they’re this, they’re that, and we got to build a wall. Boom, go. Yes, I’m behind it.

Then comes in. Hey, guys are praying over him. Is he a Christian? Is he not a Christian? Nobody knows. I used to go to the church of Norman Vincent Peale with power of positive thinking, and that’s a different Christian power.

ANDREW WILSON: You don’t think that that’s a more powerful argument?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Which one?

ANDREW WILSON: Well, so the argument from complexity. He’s saying, like, look, this is a really complex world that we live in, and even if it was the case that Trump knew about this and is protecting these people, the greater harm actually would be to allow Kamala Harris to perform another 700,000 abortions this next year. And that’s—

Personal Justice vs. The Greater Good

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, that’s such a freaking crazy argument. 100%. Like, you know what George Clooney said? He said something about, if somebody harms my kid, I don’t know what it was. Who was this? He says, Clooney. He says something about guns or I don’t know what the argument was, but the argument was, I don’t believe in that policy because it was a conservative policy.

He says, but if somebody did this to my daughter, I would go and kill them and I would gladly go to jail. Okay, okay, what’s the point? If you find out that happened to your, your whatever, kid, somebody, that niece, nephew, and you’re like, oh, you did that? No problem. I’ll go to jail for life. I’ll come and take you on.

Like, who was the UFC fighter? Right? And I got to wrap it up because Matthew keeps track. He just—Dos Santos, possibility of parole. Yeah, he went. I said, what did you do? Boom. And he shot him. I don’t know what he did. He kicked his ass. He did something to him. Cain. Yeah, there is Robbie. He just got—

ANDREW WILSON: He just, he just hit the news.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You go to news, Rob, go back and just go to news. You know.

ANDREW WILSON: Parole eligibility.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: He went after the guy that molested somebody in his family, nephew or something like that, right. So to me, you know, that’s where you sit there and you say, I’m going to either leave it up to God, the 14 year old kid with a 10 year old son that he experienced 10 years ago, which I think that you told me was that you haven’t spoken about this but one other time in that moment, what do you do?

Do you leave it up to God or do you go and say, really, eye for an eye, I’m coming. That’s the individual’s choice. And that’s why, just like the sniper cop that sits down and tells them, you’re going to get five dollar gifts, send thank you cards. She’s going to change. She will never be the same again. She’s still the same person as inside, but you have to try to find a way to find that person. But she’s permanently changed, right?

ANDREW WILSON: Okay.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Someone’s going to sit there, if that happens to you, she’s going to be like, look, I know you want to kill this guy, but if you kill this guy, look what you have here. They’re going to suffer. You have still a kid left. You have still two kids left. You still have a—we got siblings. You got this. People are relying on you.

And then your battle is what? I’m going to kill you. Of course. So that’s flesh and that’s faith in God. What a battle to go through. I understand that. Vengeance in the blood. Like when I was talking about his eyes, and I said your eyes tell me you don’t trust anybody, you’re super skeptical. And you have, you know, rage in you. Why is that?

ANDREW WILSON: Right?

The Weight of Presidential Responsibility

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I get that. But when you have a handful of countries that are hoping for you to have a massive fall and this country’s values and principles, billions of people around the world are hoping America makes it so they can come back and influence a little bit of our country. Hey, man, can you guys just keep it together? Can you guys—Americans don’t get a divorce. Can you guys, like, stay solid because you’re concerning me and I’m living in Brazil or I’m living in this.

I don’t want to leave Brazil, but I kind of want America to stay strong. I think that part, that person’s job of being the president, it is not everybody’s job. When you become a president, you have to accept the fact that your decisions will kill people. Your decisions will cost a lot of people’s lives.

ANDREW WILSON: Politics, always a trade off.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Don’t run for office. If you don’t want it, don’t do it. It’s not for you. That’s his job. Let him deal with his maker on what he wants to do. And that’s my position. But I understand why he’s doing what he’s doing to me. He has such a control, I believe over 20, 30, 40, 50 people. And that’s kind of keeping it together. That blackmail or whatever you want to call it.

Maybe you wouldn’t do it. Maybe the average person watching right now saying, screw you guys, I don’t agree with you. Totally get it. But that typically in a family, you know—

ANDREW WILSON: You get to somebody, I think somebody get it.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I don’t think everybody gets it.

ANDREW WILSON: No. But I think enough to.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: I agree with you. I do think enough to. But I do think there’s a percentage. But no, but, no, but no. And I get it. Like, you know, when you’re, you know, your father and you have kids and 80% of the stuff the kids are not going to understand. What are you talking about? You’ll know in 20 years.

ANDREW WILSON: Relax, bro. That’s true. Go try to get straight. That’s actually a really good point.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Go try to get straight A’s right now. One day you’ll understand what the f*, you know, what is going on here till that day. Play your sports, play your Muay Thai, play your stuff. Go do whatever you’re doing with your Fortnite, and then read some books. And then later on, as we’re evolving, I’ll tell you more about the family. And by the way, guess what, kid?

ANDREW WILSON: What?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: There’s about eight things you will never know about your family.

ANDREW WILSON: Really?

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yes. Just like there’s 40 things I don’t know about my mom and my dad. And we all have to live with it. We move on.

Recognizing Talent and Wrapping Up

Anyways, Andrew, I can already tell from just the last 30 minutes you’re a conversationalist. And how big is your podcast right now? How well is it doing? Yeah, you’re a good host. Is it mainly you talking or do you bring people and have conversations as well?

ANDREW WILSON: Mostly me. I’m a freestanding creator, so mostly me.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: But I think you also have—you also are a good point guard. I think you’re also a good point guard. I think you, you know, I’ve always—

ANDREW WILSON: I’ve always done well in this setting.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Yeah, but, but no, you—some are just scorers, and they’re killer scorers, and some are, you know, triple threat. Like, they’re good at giving points that go viral. I want to know what that guy has to say. What did Andrew Wilson say about this? Right?

And then there are guys that, like, create the conversation, and then there’s guys that are very entertaining. You just listen, like Tim Dillon. You know, whether you agree with him or not, he’s going to turn the sh out of you.

ANDREW WILSON: Right.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: You’re a good point guard as well. I only saw you as a scorer, but you actually—very good point guard as well. Take it for, you know, whatever you do with that compliment, it’s up to you. I’m just telling you how to entertain. Bring in panel because I think you’re a good guy at holding it together as well. But this has been a blast. Appreciate you for coming out. Really.

ANDREW WILSON: It’s great to meet you. Likewise, by the way, for those of you watching, if you’re ever asked to be a guest on this podcast, they treat you extremely well. And to guys like me, that’s very important. I’ve been on podcasts where that’s not the case, and this one, they really rolled out the red carpet. So I really appreciate that.

PATRICK BET-DAVID: Well, we appreciate you saying that. We appreciate you saying that. Thank you so much for that, guys. You are going to see this right around Christmas. Okay? So Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Enjoy yourself. We’ll see you guys soon. God bless, everybody. Take care. Bye bye. Bye, bye.

ANDREW WILSON: My name is Andrew Wilson, host of the Crucible. As you guys know, I’m a political analyst and a political satirist. If you want to talk directly with me, as many of my audience have requested that they be able to do, I’ve been able to carve out a system on this platform in order to do that with you, that’s on Minnect. You can ask me whatever questions that you want. We can talk debate, we can talk strategy. We can talk about basically whatever it is that you’ve been wanting to talk with me about, and I hope to see all of you there.

Related Posts

• Bondi, Baal, and the Dow @ The Tim Dillon Show #483 (Transcript)
• You’ve Been Lied To About Masculinity – Scott Galloway @ TRIGGERnometry (Transcript)
• Joe Rogan Podcast #2454: w/ Robert Malone (Transcript)
• Nicolai Petro: Europe at a Crossroads at Munich Security Conference (Transcript)
• Tucker Carlson: Epstein Files, NATO, Iran & China’s Rise (Transcript)