Read the full transcript of medical researcher Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong’s interview on The Tucker Carlson Show, titled “You’re Being Lied to About Cancer, How It’s Caused, and How to Stop It”, premiered March 26, 2025.
TRANSCRIPT:
The Alarming Rise in Cancer Cases
TUCKER CARLSON: Doctor, thanks a lot for coming on. So you spent your life, you know, 50 years working on treatments for cancer. And when you started, it seemed like we were moving in the west toward the elimination of cancer. Smoking was a huge emphasis. Get rid of tobacco and cancer rates will drop. Obviously, smoking does cause cancer and we get rid of it, basically. But cancer rates went up and that is a very rarely remarked upon mystery. That really bothers me. Tell us, since you made billions of dollars selling your companies, but you’re still involved in medical research, which I admire. Where are we now with cancer? What are you seeing in cancer rate?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Worrisome to me now is not just the rate, but the population in which it’s increasing, I.E. the younger people. So we’re clearly seeing an increase in certain types of cancer, like pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, and we’re seeing that colon cancer, and we’re seeing it in younger people.
TUCKER CARLSON: Just to set a baseline, what’s the 10 year survival rate for pancreatic cancer?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It’s horrible. I think, you know, if you have pancreatic cancer today, I don’t think there is a 10 year survival rate, so to speak.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: What there is, however, if you have patients who are what we call fail standard of care, survival rate is in months. You measure it in two months.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s certainly my understanding, having watched a lot of people die of it. So advanced pancreatic cancer as a death sentence, where are you seeing it now?
Cancer in Younger Populations
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, I got to tell you a really concerning story. It’s not only am I seeing it now, I’m seeing it in younger people. And for the first time in my career, you know, when I left UCLA, I was doing all the Whipples, which is a surgery to actually remove most of the pancreas, as a very big operation.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’re a surgeon as well?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I’m a surgeon, yes. And I was also doing pancreas transplants for type 2 diabetes and islet cell transplants and stem cell transplant. So I had this diverse activity as a UCLA assistant professor, but I never saw pancreatic cancer in children. And the greatest surprise to me was a 13 year old with metastatic pancreatic cancer that the family called us to help. And to me that was not only devastating, it emphasized the idea that we’re seeing people with higher incidence of pancreatic cancer and younger.
Right now in our clinic, we have 45 year old, 50 year old. And what was sad about this young boy, by the time he came to see us, he had exhausted all standard of care. And he came from Butler, Pennsylvania and all the major medical centers really had exhausted all their therapy by the time he came to see us. His body was ridden and he passed away. So seeing cancers now in younger people and almost a rise, almost like, I want to call it a non-infectious pandemic, but this is what I think is going to be worrisome in the world. Not just in the United States, but largely in the United States, we’re beginning to see this and it’s really worrisome.
TUCKER CARLSON: A non-infectious pandemic of cancer. Including deadly cancers.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct.
TUCKER CARLSON: Like pancreatic. In your career, which I think is about 50 years of working on this, how many 13 year old pancreatic cancer patients have you seen?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Never.
TUCKER CARLSON: Never.
The Unprecedented Trend
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I inquired around because it bothered me so much now why this is happening. So Dr. Stephen Day, who’s a good friend who was trained with me at UCLA when I was at UCLA, he’s now at the Angeles Clinic. And I called him and he said, listen Patrick, I’m now seeing an 8 year old, a 10 year old, an 11 year old with colon cancer. Colon cancer. Colon cancer. We’ve never seen that. We’re seeing now 30 year old, 40 year old ladies, young ladies with ovarian cancer. So this is a real phenomenon of a rise of cancer in early people, in young people. And really to get to the bottom.
TUCKER CARLSON: Of that, do you notice a difference in the virility of the cancer, of the speed with which it moves?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, I’m getting reports they’ve even called it turbocharged cancer.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, I’ve heard that phrase.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Right. I’m getting reports of that now that people that have been in remission before even are now getting back to cancers and very rapidly progressing. So if you really think about what the cause of cancer is, you know, and I did a piece with Sanjay Gupta many, many years ago on 60 Minutes and I said, you know, the cause of cancer is its inability. It’s not the rapidity of its growth, but its inability to die. And its inability to die is because it either hides from the cells that matter, that is your natural killer cells or T cells, or, and this is what I’m really worried about, your body. And the cancer has found a way to suppress your killer cells. And once they do that, once they activate what are called the suppressor cells, and you call yourself immunosuppressed, and then I think you see this rapid progression because there’s nothing stopping them.
TUCKER CARLSON: What could possibly be causing this?
Understanding Cancer and the Immune System
DR.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, you have to.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yeah, because you prevent. And then I was working on cancer where I don’t want to immunosuppress. So I needed to understand the body’s mechanism. And we have a crazy, wonderful, exquisite balance in our body. You have the yin and the yang of the killer cells and these things called natural killer cells and T cells.
TUCKER CARLSON: Whose job is to kill anything that threatens the body.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Whose job is to kill. Quite right. Anything that threatens the body. Whether the body has infection, if you have TB, if you have HIV, if you have hepatitis, if you have COVID. These cells are there to recognize these infected cells and kill it. As you and I are sitting here today, our stem cells are growing in order to replenish parts of your body, your heart. If you didn’t have that, you wouldn’t have a heart at the age of 14. You need those stem cells, but mathematically there are some cells that are transformed and your body recognizes that through these natural killer cells and kills it. I call that nature’s first responder. And that’s your mechanism. That’s how we are all protected and we are in the state of equilibrium or balance.
On the other hand, the moment either the tumor find a way to hide from these cells or your body’s or the tumor causes these cells to be suppressed. And that’s why I call the suppressor cells. And there are certain cells in your body call T reg cells or myelo derived suppressor cells. These are all technical, that when they get upregulated you’ve lost your protection. And so the question then is how do we understand this balance, how do we increase the killers and how do we decrease the suppressors?
The Complex Balance of the Immune System
So that’s been 50 years of my challenge of and how do we expose the tumor? So on the one hand you need to expose the tumor because it hides from the killers. On the other hand you activate the killers and the other hand you have to suppress the suppressors. So we’re truly playing a game of chess. And I think like astrophysicists where you’re looking for God’s particle, where all these molecules are floating around talking to each other, all the cells are floating around talking to each other and this dynamic interaction.
And how do you understand all of that? You know, one of the best, most fun lectures I gave, I gave a lot of lectures on this and try to be non-technical because it’s basic, what I call basic immunology. And the problem with cancer is it’s been treated by oncologists and not immunologists. And immunologists don’t see patients because they look at basic immunology. And then when you have infection and you have virology. So these cross disciplines of virology, immunology, oncology, all these allergies don’t talk to each other.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. So you’re saying, just big picture for non-specialists of which I’m of course one. You’re saying that cancer is to some extent a problem with your immune system.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It is everything about your immune system.
TUCKER CARLSON: So you’ve got all kinds of defective cells that could become cancer or cancer in your body at all times.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: At all times.
TUCKER CARLSON: But your body is zapping them.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct. Right.
TUCKER CARLSON: Which is. And that’s the fundamental balance of the human body.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct.
TUCKER CARLSON: And when that body gets out of balance, when the killer cells become suppressed or less effective, that’s when you get cancer.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct.
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, so I’m sorry to interrupt. I just.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: No, it’s. I love it because that’s the perfect interpretation that I couldn’t do in a non-technical way because I think that’s. I get too nerdy. So I’m glad.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you are a doctor.
The Quantum Theory of Cancer
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So. But that’s I think is what’s happening in our body. We have these perturbations, but we’re in equilibrium, you know, and that’s a good thing the moment you knock yourself out of equilibrium. Now what could knock you out of equilibrium? And that’s why when you know, Bobby Kennedy’s talking about standing up about the toxins in our food, the toxins in PFAS, the processed food and viral infections. And really what knocks you out of balance basically is inflammation.
If you have inflammation in your body, there’s this. Now I’m going to get nerdy again. These cells called neutrophils that actually see an infection and tries to kill it, which it does. But if there’s persistent inflammation, these neutrophils actually flip into a suppressor cell. So what people don’t realize is that we have the yin yang in our body, that every cell has a counter cell.
And that’s what I was about to go there. I said the most fun conversation I had where I was asked by astrophysicists or physicists to give a lecture is I named this concept of cancer a quantum theory, like a physicist. And that in our body we have cells that can be in two states. It can be a killer or suppressor. And like the Schrödinger’s cat, it could be alive or dead. And it depends what you do with it.
And so I named the sync quantum oncotherapeutics just to be controversial, so that doctors could understand. What I’m talking about is that we need to understand the fact that you have a killer T cell and you have a killer suppressor cell. We have an M1 macrophage that actually chomps things up and M2 macrophages that blocks that. You have an NK cell that kills and NK cells that inhibits. And we need to have that balance. Otherwise you’ll get into autoimmune disease.
The Complexity of Cancer Treatment
But there’s a thing called quantum entanglement that is this cat alive? Is this cat dead? If somebody interacts with that, and the person that interacts with that is the doctor. So you as a doctor could either be enlightened enough to activate just the activators and suppress the suppressors and change the dynamic towards the cure. But it’s very complex because it’s now quantum, because all those changes are happening in minutes in your body.
These molecules, like God’s particle, where they’re colliding with each other and cells are colliding and interacting, happens within minutes. So you need to have a theory of how you interact at that level. And in so doing, the first thing you need to understand is how does cancer happen? And then how does it grow? How do you stop it?
This idea of a vaccine, a cancer vaccine, do you radiate that cancer? Do you remove that cancer? Do you remove the lymph nodes? Do you give chemotherapy? And crazy enough over the last 50 years, I figured out that everything we’re doing is not the word wrong, because that’s a bad statement, a pejorative statement. It’s not enlightened or a better way to say it, because everything we’re doing is tipping the scales towards the suppressor cells. We’re activating the suppressor cells, we’re not activating the killing cells. And we can go into this conversation where I can explain that.
So the key system which you just said is cancer is all about the immune system. So if you activate the immunosuppression system, you get more cancer. So then the fundamental root cause is what’s activating that immune system on the other way?
Searching for the Root Cause
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. And that’s inflammation is suppressing people’s immune systems, including the poor 13 year old boy who died of pancreatic cancer. And the question is, what is that? And maybe there are a lot of causes, but it is, you know, we’re not the first people to notice there’s been an increase in scary cancers in populations that didn’t used to get them. It’s very obvious just from living here. And a lot of people have pointed to both COVID the virus and to the mRNA COVID vaccines as potential causes. Do you think that they’re related?
Viruses and Cancer: Understanding the Connection
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: The best way for me to answer that is to look at history. What we know about virally induced cancers is well established. We know that if you get hepatitis, you get liver cancer. Hepatitis is a virus infection. We know if you get human papillomavirus, HPV, you get cervical cancer.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. Certain kinds of throat cancer are caused by viruses as well.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Right. If you get HIV, you get Kaposi sarcoma.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So we call that oncogenic viruses in medical terms, meaning viruses that are induced carcinogenic. And the fundamental basis for that are threefold. The hallmarks of an oncogenic virus is one, it must persist. And why? Because it continues to create inflammation. And why with inflammation you get suppression? Because your body’s trying to suppress, must inhibit the thing called P53 that’s in your body to try and protect your body from not having cancer. And if it persists and causes inflammation and inhibits p53, it begins to have the hallmarks of an oncogenic virus.
COVID-19 as a Potential Oncogenic Virus
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So then the question is, does COVID whether it come from the vaccine, which is the spike protein vaccine, or from the infection, which is spike driven, that gets into every cell of our body because it goes through the cell of the body. It goes wherever you have this thing called the ACE2 receptor, which is in the blood vessels. So wherever you have a blood vessel in, it’s where it’s going to go. And if it has an ACE2 receptor on that blood vessel, that’s where it can go, because that’s the purpose of the spike protein, to penetrate, to hijack that ACE2 receptor and get into their cells.
That’s why it gets in the pancreas. That’s why you have brain fog, because it disrupts the blood vessels of the brain and causes mitochondrial dysfunction. That’s why in the colon, which is a high, in the GI tract, there’s a high ACE2 receptor. That’s why pancreas, high ACE2 receptor. That’s why you see people have dysfunction in the heart. You’ve seen young people have sudden heart attacks. All of a sudden you see young people with pancreatic cancer, all of a sudden you see young people with colon cancer all of a sudden.
So is it by coincidence that post COVID infection, post COVID vaccine, we’re seeing all these events where we know the spike protein goes there? I don’t think so. I think it’s not a coincidence. So the question is, can we prove is this what I call long COVID virus persisting? And the group at University of California, San Francisco has now definitively proven that and published that in papers like Nature. Can we also prove that once you have that persistence of that virus, does that COVID virus suppress the natural killer cell? Does a natural killer cell actually not only go to sleep, becomes what you call energic? That’s now been published. The natural killer cell has gone to sleep.
TUCKER CARLSON: So by your definition, we just solved the mystery right there.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I think so. I think this is the conversation I had with the…
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, but wait, I mean, billions of people, literally billions of people had the COVID virus over a billion got the spike protein vaccine. So that’s like, we’re talking like a huge percentage of the earth’s population. Unless I’m missing something.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Now you understand what keeps me awake at night. And it’s kept me awake at night for two years, two and a half years. And that’s why I sort of abandoned everything just to focus on how do we clear the virus? Because the answer is to clear the…
TUCKER CARLSON: Virus from the body.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: From the body. The answer is to stop the inflammation because it’s chronic inflammation.
The Persistence of COVID in the Body
TUCKER CARLSON: So can I ask a dumb question? How long does the virus remain in the human body if not cleared?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: We found three years, four years.
TUCKER CARLSON: Is there any reason to believe it’ll naturally go away?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Not if your body’s immunosuppressed. So it’s a circle. You ask what causes cancer because your body’s immunosuppressed. You have in your body nature’s compound. And if the tumor or the infection or the inflammation suppresses it, you have to find a way to reactivate it and clear the virus. It’s literally as simple as that. And that’s the missing link that I think…
TUCKER CARLSON: So it sounds like you’re describing what could be like the worst human health crisis in history.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I don’t know how to say that without saying it scares the pants off me because I think what we may be, I don’t think it’s virus versus man. Now is it existential? I think when I talk about the largest non-infectious pandemic that we’re afraid of, this is it because while there was an increased rise in cancer in our country because of the idea of the toxins and everything else, this immunosuppression that has occurred now globally and more importantly, the immunosuppression tied to inflammation, chronic inflammation, which is asymptomatic and sometimes, and sometimes it’s not.
There’s 15 million Americans with long COVID and they’re not psychiatric when they have memory loss. They’re not psychiatric when they have instantaneous heart attacks. It’s not psychiatric when you have an 8 year old, 10 year old with colon cancer, a 13 year old pancreatic cancer. So the idea was is there a solution? And this is what…
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I certainly hope so because you spent your life around scary diseases like that’s been your life. And if you’re scared, then that’s not a good sign.
Scientific Evidence and Concerns
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I’m scared. But hopefully I think it’s important for me to have this conversation with you. I’ll share with you a conversation I had. I got invited by the CEO of the Henry Jackson foundation to come to DC, I think October, November, last year, during the election phase, and just to have a conversation about what I’m doing. And there he brought the leader from Walter Reed, the BARDA, the DOD, the NIH, the NIAID, all into that room. And it was just me.
And I said, it is time. It is time for me to reveal to this learned group of leaders about what I’m scared about. And I spent, I think it was three hours, no slides, just me speaking alone on the stage and all of them in the audience. When I first started the conversation, the first sentence was, I think COVID is oncogenic. One of the members of the audience said, that’s nonsense. I said, okay, let me explain to you what we’ve been doing in our research. At the end of three hours, she says, you’ve got to publish this. This is so important.
And I said, yes, we are processing the publication. And what came out was this paper that they biopsied the colon of young people temporally when no COVID to COVID. And showed the persistence of replicating viruses in the colon tissue two years out.
TUCKER CARLSON: Replicating COVID viruses.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Replicating COVID viruses. Replicating asymptomatic replicating in the tissue, meaning there’s inflammation. And when you have this inflammation, these neutrophils now getting geeky again. Plasticize, flip from a protective neutrophil to a suppressive neutrophil. It’s called an N2. It’s called a myelo derived suppressor cell. That’s an official name. So now you have suppression in your body. And it’s no wonder that then converts into colon cancer.
T-Cell Protection Against COVID
TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, so is this true, do you think for… I mean, have you had COVID?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: No.
TUCKER CARLSON: Lucky man.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Not lucky man. T-cell man. I have a T-cell in my body that protects me from the nucleocapsid.
TUCKER CARLSON: Where do I get one?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: That trial was held up by the FDA and by Collins and Fauci.
TUCKER CARLSON: You never got COVID because your protector cells were so strong.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Not only a protector, Celtic. If I do get COVID, the virus clears. You want to clear the virus?
TUCKER CARLSON: Get the hell out of my body.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Get it out.
TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, I just want to pause here. I know you’re in the midst of a much larger story, but this is something I think everyone can understand. So I think I’m in good health. I am in very robust…
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Did you have COVID?
TUCKER CARLSON: I did.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: How many times?
TUCKER CARLSON: One. I never took the virus. I never took the vaccine.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Okay.
TUCKER CARLSON: But I got COVID. Knocked me right on my butt. It was a bad three days. Fine, but I don’t understand. You’re older than I am. How did you never get… Let’s just… I just want to get very specific, like, how do… I mean, everyone on the planet got COVID.
The T-Cell Vaccine Approach
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Okay, so let me give you some idea. One, because we understand the implications. My wife also never got COVID because both of us… This is a painful thing to me because I relate it to Kobe’s death. It was during Kobe’s time when he passed away. And at the funeral, Kobe Bryant, who…
TUCKER CARLSON: You were close to, correct?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Very close to. And at his funeral, all the people in the room, and it was, I think, November, and I turned to Gavin Newsom and said, listen, this is one virus I’m worried about, because I was studying this virus. You know, I understand HPV very well, and I understand hepatitis. I said, this is not a respiratory virus. This is a dangerous virus.
So I went back and I shut down our organization so that we could actually do nothing else but COVID. My entire team of hundreds of scientists on Zoom and everything else around the world. I said, we must go after this virus with a vaccine that clears the virus. And the only way to clear the virus is to have what we call a T cell, an NK cell, the cell that kills cancer cells.
And I wrote a paper with [Carl Scudon], who said, COVID’s like cancer, and cancer’s like COVID, meaning it’s immune suppression that causes its spread, and it’s immunosuppression by the COVID virus that allows it to persist. So the only vaccine that is important is a T cell vaccine. But that’s what I’m telling you. Virologists think about antibodies versus cellular therapy. It’s foreign to them to have a vaccine that stimulates T cells. So I said, I understand that internally.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s so weird since in 20 minutes you explained it to me. Not particularly high IQ, not a scientist. I understand exactly what you’re saying. Why isn’t it obvious to virologists? Why isn’t that, like day one lesson in virology school that the T cells, the cells that protect you against all potential internal harm, they’re the key because…
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Every vaccine so far is antibody based. Dogma. Dogma blind spots.
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, now we’re cooking with gas. Now I understand what you’re talking about. Dogma blind spots. Nicely put. Okay, I’m sorry. I keep stepping on your story.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: You’re not stepping because you’re actually interpreting as pleasure to me. Because I don’t know what I’m saying sometimes whether it’s going to be so geeky, it gets lost. It’s important for the audience for you to interpret. This is what Sanjay did for me in the 60 Minutes. He was brilliant. He spent two years with me, by the way, doing a little 15 minute piece. We’d come to LA, we’d do the shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.
TUCKER CARLSON: Damn, we just had breakfast.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: That’s it. Okay.
The COVID-19 Vaccine Controversy
TUCKER CARLSON: So you figure out early, everyone’s panicked about COVID. But your position is they’re panicked for the wrong reasons. And actually maybe they’re not quite as panicked as they should be. Because this virus could pave the way for cancer because it will suppress the immune system of the human body. So you, in November, you said, when did you.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Right. So by March 2020 we had the vaccine. Because I had built a full GMP facility for cancer using the same vaccine that NCI had retested for HPV and for colon cancer. So I’d created this vaccine in which we would educate your body prior to COVID for the treatment of cancer to educate the T cells to recognize a cancer cell to kill it. That’s called a cancer vaccine, but which by the way, is the only vaccine in clinical trials today to prevent cancer that the NCI is running using our technology.
TUCKER CARLSON: Is there any way you can take the word vacc, call it something else?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I’m calling it BioShield.
TUCKER CARLSON: Good. Because vaccine just scared the crap out of me.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I know. Because it’s not a vaccine in that general sense of an antibody based vaccine. It’s your body’s bioshield. So we’ll announce it on the show. We’re going to call this project BioShield. Which by the way, in 2004 there was a bioshield act for national preparedness against radiation, against a pandemic of infectious diseases.
The worst thing that can happen to you is to have one dose of radiation will wipe out your NK cells and your T cells. That’s how you die. That’s how you get cancer. It saps your immune system, it suppresses your immune system. So we wanted to create a bioshield. And the bioshield is to educate your body to have these T cells called memory T cells that go and hide in bone marrow and come out when they need it and kill that cell. So it can never do damage. That’s the concept, and it’s not a foreign concept. We published it with the National Cancer Institute. So by March 2020, I took all our resources. Thank God we had the resources. So that’s the sort of gift.
TUCKER CARLSON: Was this your money?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: All my money.
The Path to Medical Innovation
TUCKER CARLSON: Okay, so I should just say I alluded to it earlier, but you had a couple of companies making cancer drugs. You owned all of them. I mean, you own, I think, 100% of the companies. You sold them for $10 billion or something, so. But rather than buy a vineyard, you continued in your work. Is that a fair?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Very fair. You know, as I said to you over breakfast, I had no idea about stocks. So when the two companies were bought, and they were bought for the right reasons, the one company was American Pharmaceutical Partners, and we were making literally close to a million vials a day in the United States, manufacturing of 150 different SKUs for every part of the hospital and was safe for heparin. So Fresenius said, we want to buy you. We said, great.
And then I developed this molecule that was feeding the tumor that could actually activate the immune system to activate the macrophages called Abraxane. And Celgene said, we want to buy you. I said, great. The purpose for my selling them was not for the money. Clearly it was for the money. But the purpose of the use of the money was to pursue this dream of this astrophysics, to find God’s particle in your human body, to activate your immune system. That was the purpose of this money. And that’s all I’ve done with the money. I spent about $3 billion of this money. I’ve not gotten one penny from the government, not even one dime.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’re the only one.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yeah. And maybe that’s the freedom and the liberation. Allow me to say what I can say now.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, that’s right. So again, I keep pulling this away because there’s a lot here that’s interesting, but how did you not get COVID?
The T-Cell Vaccine Development
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Okay, so I recognized that. So Peter Marks and I had these conversations. So he was head of CBER, and I was pinging him with the science because this is a biologic. And I was saying to Peter, listen, Peter, I need to show you that we need to create a T cell vaccine. And he said, well, we don’t do T cell vaccines. Everybody’s doing the other vaccines, but. Great, let’s continue the antibody vaccines.
Then he called me and he said, we’re going to create warp speed. And he’s a Star Trekkie, and I’m a Star Trekkie, and I love warp speed. I said, okay, we got to do this in warp speed. Absolutely. But the only way, Peter, you can do this in warp speed. We need as a country to have NIH and Barda fund a trial where we take macaque monkeys, we give them the vaccine, and everybody should throw their vaccine in because I don’t care whether it’s mine or theirs, whoever’s vaccine, to clear the virus.
The only way to do this experiment, you give the monkeys the vaccine, it’s under your control. You have 100 monkeys, everybody gets a set of vaccines, and then you infect the monkeys in the BSL3 facility with a high dose of COVID. And then you see in their lungs and the tissue that there’s no virus after seven days. Absolutely. That was warp speed.
So I was one of eight of warp speed. Then I get a call, Patrick, you’re dewarped. You are out. I said, test my vaccine. Anyway, they did a vaccine, tested at the NIH and Barda. It cleared the virus. As I predicted, there was no virus in the lungs after a big infection. So I said, okay, I’m dewarped. And this was a Francis Collins scheme and Anthony Fauci’s scheme and Moncef Slaoui’s scheme.
And one day we’ll talk about the conversation I had with Moncef Slaoui and what I’ve learned about Francis Collins in that event. And they were going to go after this antibody vaccine, which is this mRNA vaccine, with Spike. And I said, this is too important. I told my people, we’re going to build our own vaccine with our own money. I couldn’t get enough material other than to do one batch. And we’re going to do a phase one trial, and we’re going to inject as many people that we can do in the phase one trial. I’m one of them. I injected myself.
I drew my own blood and tested, and I have T cells to nucleocapsid and to spike, which means if I were to get COVID, the T cells now, our memory T cells would clear the virus. So we then tried, begged, begged, because not for funding, even, but for the plastic bags that were now restricted as you grow these things to Pfizer and Moderna. All the materials that you need in a biological facility got zero. I’ve only got one batch.
So I said, I’m going to South Africa and inject these in patients with HIV, because that’s the biggest test you could have. You couldn’t generate T cells in the patients with HIV and do these phase 2 and phase 3 trial in South Africa. So we did that. And then I called Peter and I said, Peter, I’m sorry, what were the.
TUCKER CARLSON: Results like, T cells.
The Truth About Vaccine Efficacy
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Interestingly enough, it doesn’t say. Just so you know, you have to differentiate. Does it actually prevent the penetration of the virus versus the load of the virus versus the clearance of the virus? These are three different things. So we think it prevents the penetration, but we don’t know because as soon as it does penetrate, it would clear. So you wouldn’t even know.
For the T cell vaccine, this is anecdotal, but some of the people who got our T cell vaccine, their family members got COVID. They didn’t get the vaccine, and they didn’t get COVID while living with the family. The issue of clearing the virus in transmission was the key.
So an antibody vaccine may reduce the viral load and therefore reduce death, which is a good thing that President Trump did. But the next generation of clearing the virus was what was needed, and both should have been developed simultaneously. It wasn’t. I’ll share with you. To this day, it’s a mystery to me why. But the opportunity to clear the virus was actually known, I think, by Collins and by Fauci, that it did not clear the virus. The Spike vaccines, the Pfizer medicine, the antibody vaccine, does not and to this day, does not clear the virus.
TUCKER CARLSON: That seems like a big deal.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, just what we talked about. If you don’t clear the virus and you have pieces of the virus in there, especially spike, whether from the infection or from the vaccine, and now you get another infection. Now the virus brings along this nucleocapsid. Now it reconjoins and replicates again in these, what they call privileged sites two years later.
So what we’re seeing now, we’re back to persistence. That’s now published just months ago, and this is what I shared with NIH secretly four months ago. And persistence, asymptomatic persistence, but with inflammation and reduction of P53 and immunosuppression are all the hallmarks and recipes for cancer. And coming back to your first question is why are we seeing an increase in young people? I think all of the above, the toxins, the history, the red dye, the PFAS, the COVID all of the above.
TUCKER CARLSON: Does both COVID and the COVID vaccine lower over time.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: The human immune system, the vaccine itself upregulates temporarily the antibodies. But if the vaccine, the spike protein breaks off and the RNA or DNA goes into the cells. And whether from infection or the vaccine, that’s where the controversy is, right? It could be both. And the vaccine doesn’t clear the virus. That’s the key. It doesn’t clear the virus.
TUCKER CARLSON: And that’s why we were told, of course you take the virus and then you can’t get COVID or transmit it. But neither one turned out to be true. Demonstrably untrue.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, it was not only demonstrably untrue, it was knowingly untrue.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s what’s bad about it. Would seem like that’s criminal, actually. I mean, if I tell you that this car gets 40 miles the gallon and instead it blows up, that’s a crime. You can’t sell anything under false pretenses. That’s a crime. I don’t see how this is not a crime, but.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, as you said over breakfast, it’s not a conspiracy if it’s true.
The Truth About COVID Vaccines
TUCKER CARLSON: And you know that they knew. You’ve established for a fact that the developers of this and our public health authorities knew that the COVID vaccine would neither prevent infection nor transmission.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yes. And I think you know, it’s not well known that during the first President Trump election, he offered me a position and I turned it down because I said to him I really could help him from outside better than inside. And I had too much to do. I really was working on this, thank God, working on this potential cure for cancer as well as clearing the virus with COVID.
This, what I call the missing link, which we can talk about this activator of the natural killer cells, this bioshield. And we have this bioshield now. So it was the right decision for me not to go into the government during that time and to stay out.
TUCKER CARLSON: This was 16-17.
The Biden Era and FDA Intervention
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct. But worse, I’ve since discovered, not by my inquiry, but it’s been revealed to me. Emails about Francis Collins and some politicians worked hard to prevent me from even joining, becoming head of NIH. And I think that was the motivation all the way downstream that we asked, okay, so what happened to this vaccine? So I called the FDA and said, okay, I can’t do a randomized placebo controlled trial now because you got Pfizer’s Moderna vaccines all over the place. So let me be the booster. And Peter Marx, to his credit, was the one who said, absolutely. Peter Marx, to his credit was the one who says, I’m worried about this COVID vaccine and this long COVID. I want to study the effects of this vaccine. Peter Marx would then say to me, “Patrick, fine, go ahead.” I injected the first three patients as a booster. I get the call from the FDA to say, you have to stop.
TUCKER CARLSON: I said, why?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: To this day, they never explained to me. It wasn’t Peter, it was people around Peter who said, you must stop. So we stopped and there was nothing more we could do anyway because we didn’t have any of the resources, the money, the supplies to complete a phase three.
TUCKER CARLSON: So the government has a monopoly on some of the materials that you need to do this kind of testing in a biolab. Is that correct?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct. But now we’re into Biden era. So now we’re in the Biden era that said I must stop. This is 2020 now. It was during the Biden era and I think there was this. Sadly, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but now I’ve come to realize it truly was a deep state inside there that had a motivation beyond public health. And, you know, I just tweeted recently of how so few people could hurt so many. And that’s why when I tweeted about, finally we have the right person in HHS with Bobby Kennedy, we’ll take this on, and that we have doctors that will be like Marty McCurry, I don’t know. But I do know he’s a surgeon who can understand and touch and feel what it means to be there on behalf of the patient and my support for that. I think we have a chance now to completely turn this around in its next few years.
The People Behind the Scenes
TUCKER CARLSON: I think this last election was in part about that. I think the national realization that COVID was there was something very dark there. It wasn’t just a virus that happened upon us naturally, that there was a lot of evil bound up in it. But just to back up a second, you said you have learned from watching COVID that a few people can hurt so many. Who are those people?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I think the main culprit really sitting there was Collins.
TUCKER CARLSON: Francis Collins.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Francis Collins. And he controlled a man. I had shared with President Trump that Francis Collins should not be the NIH director. He offered me a job. Peter Thiel nominated me, and I’ve since found emails of Francis Collins sending an email to a politician that “alarm bells, alarm bells. Peter Thiel’s nominated Patrick Soon-Shiong. We have to find a way to stop it.” Why to this day, power, greed, political need. He did the same thing with Craig Venter. I remember during Clinton’s time with the Human Genome Project, where Craig Venter invented the sequencing machine for tens of millions of dollars and he was spending billions of dollars doing nothing but wanted the credit.
I think what happens to you when you get into Washington, the ego, greed and power changes your mindset. So I can’t give motivation to that. All I can tell you is when I saw that email, I was devastated that somebody would actually go to that extent and then send that same email to the CEO of BIO, which is all big pharma. And that CEO of BIO said, “Let’s go to Google Search to find some dirt on him.” Dirt on you, on me, to stop me from being nominated to be head of NIH or whatever.
TUCKER CARLSON: Let’s Google him to stop him.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Let’s Google to find some dirt, some bad stuff, negative research, whatever they want to find. They probably couldn’t find any dirt on me, but that was the interchange between them on email.
Therapeutic vs. Vaccine
TUCKER CARLSON: But the funny thing is, you made a product and by the way, a clarification of terms. My understanding was a vaccine was administered to a healthy person to prevent him from getting the disease. You’re describing a product, the one that you made, that you can inject into an infected person and it cures the infection. That sounds more like a conventional medicine than a vaccine.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It’s a therapeutic.
TUCKER CARLSON: A therapeutic.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct. So, you know, I use the word vaccine because that’s what they understood. You know, it’s dog man terminology.
TUCKER CARLSON: Right. But you’re giving this to people who have COVID, who have HIV.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, I want to give it to people who don’t have COVID so they can actually get COVID, but then they want to give. I am now giving to patients with HIV. I’m giving to people with HPV. I’m giving it people who are getting cancer and have cancer. And more importantly, there’s 1 in 280 Americans have this thing called Lynch syndrome. Lynch syndrome is a genetic predisposition of an 80% increase of colon cancer, ovarian cancer, breast cancer. It’s a genetic predisposition where your cells don’t repair themselves.
TUCKER CARLSON: I lost a friend to this. Yes.
Breakthrough Cancer Treatments
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: We are in clinical trials for the bioshield for patients with Lynch syndrome. We now have 100 patients enrolled already giving them this bioshield that’ll prevent cancer. So it’s one of the first trials of prevention of cancer rigor and treatment of cancer. Then this drug, this bioshield, I think people might not want to call it the vaccine has just gotten approved in 2024 for bladder cancer.
We now have people who failed everything, who would have their bladder removed. Think about that. Your bladder removed. 9% mortality just from the surgery alone. Where we’ve given them this bioshield, that’s all they got is a subcutaneous injection or sorry into the bladder. And they are now free of disease. Still complete remission. Nine years out. Alive today. We can talk to them. Published we have patients with metastatic pancreatic cancer. We just published was free of disease five years out.
Senator Reid, who came to see me after having failed all other treatment with his pancreatic cancer spread to his liver, came to see me and he said to me, “Patrick, I’m here. But I checked with Francis Collins who said, don’t go.” I said, “Well, Senator Reid, it’s your choices.” “I’m coming.” And we gave him the therapy and his CA19 went down to normal. And he lived for two years free of disease. He actually came, was very active.
We had a patient with Merkel cell carcinoma, which is a terrible disease of failed everything. He came into our clinic, complete response, nine years out, and he died of other causes. The reason I met Robert Jr. I’ve only known him for about four months is I called Bobby Shriver, his cousin. And the reason I knew Bobby Shriver, because Bobby called me seven years prior to that, saying, “Patrick, I’m on the city council of Santa Monica. And the mayor of Santa Monica has this terrible tumor in his head and neck. It’s ulcerating under his chin, ulcerating through his jaw. And UCLA and Cedars Sinai said, he’s got two weeks to live. He’s got to go to hospice. Can you see him?”
I said, “Absolutely, Bobby, I think he needs our natural killer cells. He needs our bioshield.” So I brought him to our clinic, which we have in Los Angeles, in El Segundo. The nurses broke into tears. The nurses says, “Patrick, what are you doing? UCLA said, he has to go to hospice.” I said, “No, you don’t understand. We can dynamically activate this.” And this is all as an outpatient. We got him into complete remission. Complete remission.
TUCKER CARLSON: Is he still alive?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So it healed and this melted the tumor. He went home because it was exposed. A little bleed happened in the blood vessel. His family took him to St. John’s and then they called me frantically and says, “The doctor says, do not resuscitate.” I said, “What? Let me speak to that doctor.” He said, “Well, it’s bleeding and it’s got this thing.” I think he was in his late 70s, early 80s. I said, “Please clip it. It’s complete response. And we’re going to do a flap to cover that.” He did. We did the flap. He lived for two years. Was able to eat.
So when I called Bobby and I said, “Bobby, you remember what we did?” He said, “Absolutely.” “Patrick, a lot of people have asked me to introduce to Robert. You know, Robert and I don’t speak very much. We’ve had an argument about his ideas.” And I said, “I understand, but I’m going to give you a number to Bobby Kennedy. And he’ll call you.” Bobby called me in 10 minutes and I said, “Bobby, I’d like to introduce myself.” He said, “Patrick, can I meet with you?” I said, “Please.” And he came to meet with me at my home and we had this long conversation.
And I realized I’ve just watched your show with him. He is what he is an authentic man with a sense of purpose, conviction, courage. He says what he really believes. Sometimes it may be wrong, sometimes it may be right, but he says what he believes. And I really believed, oh, my God. Here’s somebody who would have the courage to take on the world and ask the questions and I said I’m going to support you. And that’s what happened. That’s how I got to know him.
Supporting Robert Kennedy Jr.
TUCKER CARLSON: Amazing. He was dismissed by. No, not just dismissed, attacked and vilified by a lot of people in the medical establishment. I would say everybody. Why were you willing to listen to him?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Because what he’s saying is exactly what I was saying. And I’m sort of attacked by these same people because of the dogma that’s out there. So let me give you this example. I said, Bobby and I shared with him the story about Hope Hicks. I said that you probably just walked out to the office and I walked in in 2016, it’s 2017. I said, “Listen, you people think of you as saying you shouldn’t have a polio vaccine. You, that you’re an anti-vaccinator. What you really are saying you’re worried about the excipients inside the vaccine.”
TUCKER CARLSON: About the what?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Okay, so that’s the technical. The materials that go in with the vaccine. The mercury, et cetera, with the mercury, etc. So I understand there’s a polio vaccine. It’s 1, 2, 3, 4 polio vaccines that have now been manufactured. And now all of a sudden there’s a new polio vaccine that’s manufactured in which you have cow serum, calf serum inside that vaccine. And I know, and you know, everybody knows in the UK knows you can get prion disease from this calf serum because you can measure that.
So that got approved in four days just because of safety, the way dogma is happening. But there’s other polio vaccines. So you can take the other polio vaccines, but don’t take that one. Just like I was telling you about. Maybe I was telling you about Propofol’s story over breakfast and you should explain it that way, that you want it just to be examined. And he said, “Exactly.” I said, “Okay.” Not only did I get him, he is asking the right questions and people are scared to ask these questions because of perverse incentives. And that was what bothered me.
TUCKER CARLSON: But in science, shouldn’t any question be allowed?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Exactly. So when I tweeted, I said, he knows more science than most doctors. He’s much of a.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s a good thing you’re rich because you’d be out of a job tweeting stuff like that.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: But it is right? And that’s what’s a blessing, I think, you know, I live the American dream and that’s what. And you said, okay, I made this money. The money is for the purpose of me able to do this. And I was very concerned about being too loud about it because if the deep state would hold up the approval and they did, by the way, they put us into complete response letter. I got a thousand requests for information. The most my submission was close to 700,000 pages. In order to get this thing through.
TUCKER CARLSON: 700,000. It’s like the US tax code.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: This drug has been in trials now for eight years. 2015.
TUCKER CARLSON: How long was the Pfizer mRNA COVID vaccine in trials?
Revolutionizing Cancer Treatment
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Months, a month? Not even. So that’s why I’m trying to say, you know, I know which one I’m taking. When you talk about the user fees, we thought that the user fees were going to accelerate the approval where the FDA gets user fees from pharma. It turns out that the big pharma user fees are so large it pays for the salary for all these reviewers. So now the biotech companies, the young biotech companies are throttled.
So the big pharma that does just incremental little dots that just follow the revenue. This checkpoint’s multibillion dollar Merck’s, what, $20 billion, $30 billion on revenue. Bristol Myers follows it. AstraZeneca follows it. Roche follows it. They’re all the same, but it’s all about incremental sameness and follow the dollar. But the innovation is really at these young biotech companies that are throttled. This is what needs to be changed by the FDA today. They need a complete revamp where people with skill sets and the skill sets of the modern science, not the old drugs, have to be in place to understand what’s at stake here.
TUCKER CARLSON: Time for another true life Alp story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday. Honestly, true story. Who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over Alp. He wouldn’t stop. And I thought to myself, that’s kind of sad. And he said, no, it’s not sad. Imagine if I’d married her. Now I know I was saved.
Then the next day, this same friend is driving at twice the speed limit through a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap. Cop takes his license, registration, goes back to the patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window and sees a tin of ALP on the dashboard. Pauses, stunned, says to my friend, you use alp? Yeah, I do, says my friend. So do I, says the cop. We all do. He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, drive safely, sir, and hands back his license and registration. No ticket. So in two days, he’s saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn’t like ALP and a speeding ticket. All true.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It’s more than a nickel.
TUCKER CARLSON: In an issue of 350 million people are guessing there are about 350 million ALP stories. Email us yours, we want to know. And read it on the air. Tell [email protected] tell [email protected] give us your ALP story. Well, you have to take the conflicts out, too. I mean, if a reviewer is paid by the company whose drugs he’s reviewing, that’s like such an obvious conflict. In no other world would that be acceptable.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Not only wouldn’t it be acceptable, if then that reviewer has also the role to block an innovator. It gets worse.
TUCKER CARLSON: Again, this just seems like crime to me. I mean, I don’t know if this were going on in another country outside the United States. And I’m an American, so I give the United States every benefit of every doubt. It takes me forever to realize something’s corrupt because it’s America. It’s not corrupt. But if this were happening, I don’t just name the country China, South Africa, you know, I’d be like, well, that’s the most corrupt thing I’ve ever heard.
America’s Declining Innovation Leadership
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, that’s exactly the fear I have now. The Chinese don’t have this restriction, and their innovation is now outstripping us. Think about that. I’ve always said America’s lead in healthcare and biomedical innovation is the best in the world. And if we could use biomedical innovation as foreign policy for Africa and to Asia, into India to bring that to the rest of the world, that’s how we lead. I now read the papers. And the Chinese science is now outstripping us. Look what happened to AstraZeneca just last week. They just spent $2 billion investing in China. Now, that’s a tragedy for us.
TUCKER CARLSON: Not for manufacturing, for innovation. Oh, so that’s not good.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Not good, because the idea was we…
TUCKER CARLSON: Offshore all the manufacturing, but the ideas generate here.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So AstraZeneca is an English company. What I’m saying is the fundamental problem, I think, lies at the FDA and even the NIH. So the change that Bobby’s bringing in with Jay now being ahead of NIH and Marty being head of FDA and Bobby himself having the courage to stand up to talk both against the food industrial complex and the pharma complex, take on the Mercks of the world and the Pfizers of the world. I think we have maybe an opportunity, what I call a period of enlightenment. And really I’m all about enlightenment. And if you can look at the Sanjay piece, we are there now. So I want to actually send…
The Immune System: Key to Health and Longevity
TUCKER CARLSON: Can I stop and ask you a question though? So your position is that cancer, but not just cancer, all kinds of illnesses are caused by weakened immune system and inflammation.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It’s all about the immune system, your body functions. You live or you die by the immune system, the senescent cells. Aging is the immune system. The cells in your body that allow you to go to 100 years old, 120 years old, is based on the activity and the function of the immune system. Because the immune system is what’s regulating your healthy cells.
TUCKER CARLSON: Could we just go through, I know this is not patentable, this is not your business, but what are some of the obvious things a person can do to strengthen his immune system?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So you ask, what activates the natural killer cell? So it’s like, you know, when you look at the leaf and you talk about apoptosis and the leaf actually sits and goes brown and it changes, but then goes back up. So all of human nature, all of nature is filled with this biology of this balance. So you are a product of nature. I mean literally, you’re a product of when you were tadpole and a fish as we came out.
So this cell has evolved since the Cambrian age. Think about that. This cell, this natural killer cell in your body. I published my first article in natural killer cell in 1990. This cell was only discovered in 1970s. Think about that. And we’ve ignored that cell. This is what I call the missing link. I’m going to announce that at the American Urology Conference in Las Vegas at the end of this month. We have not discovered the missing link. We’ve discovered the awareness of this missing link and how to activate this missing link.
So the idea is to activate the natural killer cell. It has 30,000 receptors on this cell. What this natural killer cell does, it replenishes itself with sleep. So sleep is important. It replenishes itself with light, with sunlight. And I believe there’s a certain wavelength, the red wavelength in the sunlight that it actually requires for it to be stimulated.
TUCKER CARLSON: This is why people get sicker in the winter.
Natural Health Factors
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Exactly. That’s why Seattle has the highest suicide rate. Think about that. Right? So these things. And if you look at the places like Norway and Sweden, where there’s very little sun. Finland. So nature’s all about light, sunlight. So that’s why I think this is…
TUCKER CARLSON: I like, obvious observation. Nature is all about sunlight. Of course, plants don’t grow without sunlight.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: And at the end of the day, we’re either about neutrons, photons and electrons. That’s what we are. We as a human being is nothing else but a battery. And when you think about that, we have a bunch of electrons and neutrons and charges that floating through us that actually interact. That’s how I think of the human body. That’s why I said I think of it as an astrophysicist. It’s crazy, but that’s how my mind works.
So sleep, getting sunlight and having food that doesn’t immunosuppress your biome, the bacteria in your body sends out materials that actually will immunosuppress or activate.
TUCKER CARLSON: What are the immunosuppressive foods?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Unfortunately, I think most natural foods are fine. It’s the toxins in the food. Exactly what I said. The excipients. So when we talk about red dye, the processed foods, all this unnatural processed stuff ultimately cause inflammation. Now when it gets processed back to this plasticity of inflammation, inflammation causes immunosuppression because it causes all these cells to flip from the killer state to the suppressor state. That’s why we said we have this dichotomy of is the cat alive? Is the cat dead?
TUCKER CARLSON: You see it too in the elderly. You know, it’s why an infection or a diabetic foot infection can lead to a systemic infection and kill the person.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct.
TUCKER CARLSON: Right.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: That’s why, you know, when this guy discovered that H. Pylori causes gastric ulcer, they said, you’re nuts. It’s acid.
TUCKER CARLSON: I remember that so well. So well.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So now when you think about that. So that’s what…
TUCKER CARLSON: But that’s a consensus now, right? Acid does not cause ulcers.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, it’s a cause and effect. So H. Pylori causes the inflammation and then the acid that’s naturally in your stomach activates.
TUCKER CARLSON: But it’s not the core cause, correct?
Fighting Medical Dogma
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct. But it’s all about dogma. That’s why I call this a vaccine. But it’s a bioshield, so you have to fight dogma. Part of the problem is you fighting. So I will ask you. I wanted to ask us to do an experiment.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m all for it.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Where we pick up the phone, call any random oncologist not to shame them. Primary care physician pick up the phone and said, you do a CBC, correct? Yes.
TUCKER CARLSON: Can you define what a CBC is?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: A complete blood count. Just so you take a blood. And you look for…
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, the blood screen that everyone gets.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Blood screen.
TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: For whether you’re anemic or not anemic. People understand that, right? Red blood cells. And you see these red blood cells and you give chemotherapy and radiation and you ask, what do you look for? Well, we look to see if you’re anemic so we can give you this drug that Amgen makes called Epogen. We look to see whether your platelets have gone down so we can give you a platelet transfusion. We look to see whether your neutrophils have gone down so that you don’t get an infection called neutropenic fever. So we give you the drug Neupogen.
Well, the problem is, does red blood cells cure cancer? No. Does platelets cure cancer? No. Does neutrophils kill cancer? No. What kills cancer? Their natural killer cells and T cells. So in that CBC there’s a thing called the lymphocytes. Correct. So do you look at that? No. The only cell that is important that kills cancer. 99.9% of oncologists will say we don’t pay any attention to that.
TUCKER CARLSON: Does he mass backwards?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Why?
TUCKER CARLSON: If you’re an oncologist. But if you’re fighting cancer, why do you ignore the one cell that fights cancer?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: That’s the experiment I want us to do.
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s a little mysterious. Am I missing something?
The Missing Link in Cancer Treatment
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: That’s exactly. That’s the missing link, the final frontier. The E equals MC squared, the God’s equation. That is the key element in your body that we’ve been missing for 50 years. For 50 years. But it’s even worse than that. Those missing link we’ve actually destroyed with chemotherapy. We’ve destroyed with radiotherapy and we’ve destroyed with checkpoint inhibitors. We’ve destroyed with steroids. Guess what we give to patients? Chemotherapy, radiotherapy, steroids and checkpoints. Am I missing something?
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know anything about this. I was a Russian studies major, but I have no. Just because I’m 55, I know a lot of cancer patients. I have always been skeptical that the protocol is effective based on. So what I have noticed is those therapies seem to beat back the cancer, short term. But then so often you watch it come roaring back. I’m in remission. And then, wham. You just get hit by a tidal wave of cancer and eliminate.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So if you see my writings I have written so many times, you win the battle and you lose the war.
TUCKER CARLSON: So this is not, I’m not imagining this phenomenon.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I’m not imagining that you win the battle and you lose the war. The reason you win the battle is because you see this little blip of a response with chemotherapy. And then the moment you stop, or not even, you’ve actually now killed the cells that are there to protect you. You’ve upregulated these suppressor cells and you get metastasis. And you, sorry, you now have to go to hospice. Think about that. That’s what we’ve been doing for 50 years. That’s the dogma that I’m fighting.
TUCKER CARLSON: So what? Okay, so let’s just say I leave here and I’m diagnosed with a serious life threatening form of cancer. What would you recommend I do next?
Understanding Cancer’s Defensive Mechanisms
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So this is where you play chess and don’t play checkers. This is where you play go, where you say, okay, what is the cancer doing first? Well, guess what? The cancer is not stupid. So it’s figured out a way to hide from these killer cells. So the first thing you have to do is you have to expose the receptors on the cancers so the killer cells could recognize that. Even in the presence of chemotherapy, you don’t use chemotherapy to kill the tumor. You use a tiny dose of chemotherapy just to stress the cancer. And the cancer says, oh my God, something’s coming at me. And it starts exposing itself. So you go from hide to expose. So you use the chemotherapy at a low dose called low metronomic dose, to use it as what I call an immunomodulator. Importantly.
TUCKER CARLSON: Wait, I always ask. You’re describing cancer as almost like an autonomous entity that has a goal, a will to destroy the human body.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It does.
TUCKER CARLSON: But that’s. I mean, you’re describing like a. It’s a machine, but with intent and kind of clever behavior. It hides like what you’re describing, like some foreign entity in the body that’s trying to kill the body.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It is, it’s like a virus.
TUCKER CARLSON: But how can a tumor know to hide?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Because it has genomic sequencing in there that actually blocks the expression.
TUCKER CARLSON: That sounds diabolical.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It is diabolical. That’s why I spent 50 years trying to understand it’s not a human brain. It’s biology and how biology can mutate. And actually, your body’s a beautiful thing. It’s an exquisite thing. So it has to have this thing called epigenetics. So it has the genomic sequencing that says, I’m not going to express this. So we can now stress that and block the block. And it now expresses something on its surface that our T cells can recognize. So that’s the first step.
TUCKER CARLSON: Smoke it out.
The Multi-Step Approach to Fighting Cancer
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Smoke it out. But your body has mechanisms to smoke it out. It gets even more complicated. Your body has a thing where you can induce what we call damps, which is dam associated molecular patterns. But forget that. It’s a way of actually smoking it out. So now your T cells can recognize it. Okay, so now you’ve done step one. That’s just step one. That’s one molecule.
This is why I think the FDA needs to understand we’re fighting a war where you need battlefield awareness all simultaneously. Where you have to orchestrate your marines, your army, your navy, air force, all in the right place so that you can use the tumor in your body to act as the weapon, as the vaccine. Because a tumor has molecules that is foreign to the rest of your body. And if you educate your T cells to recognize those molecules that is foreign to the rest of your body, that T cell can remember.
Now you have a memory T cell. So for the first time in 2024, in our package insert, we have a molecule called the bioshield. Now I’ll call it the bioshield that can activate the natural killer cell, activate the killer T cell, and drive memory T cells. We now have bladder cancer patients who would have lost their bladder in complete remission for nine years and still alive.
TUCKER CARLSON: And so the protocol is you low dose, you administer low dose chemo to identify where the tumor is.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: You smoke it out.
TUCKER CARLSON: You smoke it out.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: But at the same time, you need to have the natural killer cells and T cells ready. So you give them the bioshield that upregulates and stimulates your natural killer cells and T cells.
TUCKER CARLSON: What about radiation? Does that play a role that’ll kill.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Your natural killer cells and T cells. So no unless, and this is important, unless today, the radiation is what they call 70 gigabits, huge doses, unless you give a tiny little dose just to the tumor, nowhere else to smoke it out. So you use radiation in a very different way called SBRT, a low dose.
TUCKER CARLSON: To identify rather than destroy, to expose rather than expose.
The Cancer Treatment Algorithm
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So the algorithm is expose from hide to expose. The next algorithm is activate and proliferate.
TUCKER CARLSON: Your NK cells, and that’s with the subcutaneous injection.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: The next algorithm is to educate your T cells with the vaccine that you anticipate that’s going to be exposed. So you now have educated T cells ready. So you’ve got educated T cells, you got NK cells, and the next thing is to activate your macrophages so they become killer macrophages. And the next step is to suppress the suppressors. You do that all simultaneously.
TUCKER CARLSON: How much human suffering is involved in this? There’s a lot in a conventional course.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: All as an outpatient. We’ve done hundreds of patients now.
TUCKER CARLSON: So someone taking this course is not going to. Is he going to lose his hair, throw up?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: All as an outpatient? No.
TUCKER CARLSON: What’s even more exciting, because that matters for cancer patients. I mean, it’s hard to be a cancer patient. It’s horrible.
Future Directions in Cancer Treatment
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yeah. But we’re now seeing patients now in complete remission. More importantly, I want to treat patients before they need surgery so that I could use the tumor itself in the body as the vaccine to educate the body and the T cells all about that tumor.
What’s even more exciting now, we can take blood from you one pint and extract the natural killer cell in the T cell and grow billions and store in cryopreservation, just like you do, I don’t know, from cord blood. We now have the ability to grow these natural killer cells and give it to anybody. So I wish that for the first time we could become the American Red Cross of cancer, our country, and use these innovations as foreign policy.
COVID Vaccines and Concerns
TUCKER CARLSON: So could, looking back, do you think it was unwise to require the population to get the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It depends on the time. I think it’s unwise to keep on giving this nonsense. I shouldn’t say that. I should be careful when I call it nonsense. The idea of getting an antibody vaccine and then creating another antibody vaccine, another antibody vaccine that chases your tail. I don’t know what that’s doing. Those spike proteins, it’s not ridding your.
TUCKER CARLSON: Body of COVID though.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It’s not. Is it creating even more variants in your body? I don’t know.
TUCKER CARLSON: But is that possible?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: See the idea, and I’m such a scientist, I need to actually go and actually pull out these variants and sequencing them. That’s what we do.
TUCKER CARLSON: Is it theoretically possible?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It’s theoretically possible.
TUCKER CARLSON: Could there be any change to a person’s DNA from taking.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, that’s what this does.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s what the mRNA vaccines do.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct. It converts into DNA and it converts into replicating and that’s what it does. And it replicates an RNA virus. It becomes the.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, as someone who’s clearly. You’ve made reference to it a couple times interested in evolution. To change the DNA of a species is to change the species over time.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: No, I don’t think it integrates. My concern is that this virus is all about itself.
TUCKER CARLSON: Very selfish virus.
Viral Evolution and Gain of Function Research
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Selfish virus. In fact, the fact that it’s now less deadly is in the virus’s interest. The virus doesn’t want to kill you because you are the incubator. Think about that. The virus wants you alive.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’re speaking in a way that suggests intent and forethought.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It’s biology, it’s evolution. Everything is evolution. It was the intent to go from a tadpole to human being.
TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know. But to consider the possibility you have something or the certainty that you have something within your body that is acting against your body’s interest on purpose.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yeah, because it needs you to be the incubator. So you know the veracity when it was so man made. So you know viral evolution, when it would call affinity maturation, it matures itself so that it can be more infective. That’s one thing it tries to do as a virus. I mean these viruses are living organisms and when they say living, they don’t have brains or anything else, but they have machinery that are very sophisticated. They have what they call promoters and etc.
TUCKER CARLSON: Why would you make something like that on purpose?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, there are viruses in nature of course, which theoretically will go through what you call maturation that normally do not infect you. They are species specific.
TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: But why would you then change that? And that’s what this gain of functions tells you was so dangerous. That’s why it was prohibited.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s so self evidently evil to even play with something like that. With the potential consequences which we’re now seeing 13 year olds getting pancreatic cancer. How could anyone do that? And why aren’t those people in prison?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, it was banned, right?
TUCKER CARLSON: It was banned in the United States. Yeah, the Wuhan Lab partnership.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, so we subverted it. Now you talk about, you know, why I said so few people could harm so many. How they got around that is for the investigators to find out.
TUCKER CARLSON: But I mean you’re someone who’s created cancer drugs, spent a lot of his life in a lab. That’s why you’re a billionaire. So you know a lot about this topic, obviously, and it’s. It’s clear to you that that’s. That’s just too dangerous to be doing that, right?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yes.
TUCKER CARLSON: To take animal viruses and make them.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: You can’t control it. I mean, because you’ve done affinity maturation. That would have taken tens of maybe millions of years in that fusion protein that created this fusion protein. And then, they created this vaccine. But I think Barney Graham was there, the part with Collins and everything else, that were so proud to create this RBD and make it stable.
Think about it. The spear hit the tip of the spear that goes into your cell. We’re going to make it stable. That’s why this vaccine was produced. The mRNA vaccine was produced. So you’ve taken a virus that’s now gone from bats to man only because I think the gain of function work. You then created a vaccine by taking the spearhead of this virus that is now being created to get into you and make the spearhead even more stable and put it on the vaccine and says, here we go.
TUCKER CARLSON: This seems super crazy. So just from the perspective of a layman, again, if I’ve never had Covid and I get the mRNA, if I get the Pfizer vaccine, mRNA vaccine, if I got it three years ago, can you detect Covid in my body now?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Possibly.
TUCKER CARLSON: See, that’s like, that’s just crazy town.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Look, I know of a. I won’t name her, but she was a very senior person at the FDA and she just got the vaccine. That’s it. And within weeks, she got brain fog, loss of memory. So there’s clear evidence that sometimes the vaccine is the cause and sometimes the virus is the cause. So that’s what I’m saying. But it’s not mutually exclusive. I understand, but it’s all about the spike.
TUCKER CARLSON: But the idea that you would be introducing the COVID virus into a body that was not infected by the COVID.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Virus is like you went after the wrong protein. Basically, I’ve been begging them to go after the nucleocapsid protein, because the nucleocapsid protein, which is in the core of the virus, is not the tip of the spear. And if you have a T cell, it lasts for 17 years. We know that from previous COVID infections, but they refuse to do it.
TUCKER CARLSON: This seems like a human tragedy at an unimaginable scale.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Completely. It devastates me.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s incredibly bracing, and I think you’re one of the very few people I’ve ever met who has the absolute authority to speak on this, and yet you’ve not been encouraged to speak about it.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: It sounds like I’ve not been what?
TUCKER CARLSON: Encouraged to speak about it.
The Missing Link in Cancer Treatment
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yeah. Because I’m not a political person. And I have this bigger picture that we have to find a solution, not just for Covid, but for cancer. And the irony is this, BioShield works for both. They’re completely connected. And the only chance we have now because I had no idea that the political deep state was so powerful and so vicious and so egotistical that they would stop good science. So now I’m out there speaking because the drug got approved, but that’s not enough just for bladder cancer. It has the same treatment effect for pancreatic cancer, lung cancer, triple negative breast cancer. It is the only molecule for 50 years that upregulates these killer cells, period. The missing link.
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you never got Covid, so that’s… You really never got Covid?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Never got Covid.
TUCKER CARLSON: How many people do you know who didn’t get Covid? Well, the president of the United States got Covid, like four times.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So if you did get Covid, there’s three antigens in the virus. There’s a spike, there’s a nucleocapsid, and there’s a thing called the M protein. When you do your blood test, you can see if you have the M protein. If you have the M protein in your antibody or T cell or antibody to the M protein, that means it came from the virus. If you have no M protein, it came from somewhere else. Could come from the vaccine. I have no M protein. And I have T cells to N. And I have T cells to S.
TUCKER CARLSON: So you could basically lick a park bench and not get sick.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: No, it doesn’t. Exactly. So now you need to differentiate and not conflate. The ability of the virus to infect it could still infect me, but my body has the protection, the bioshield, to clear it immediately within seven days. Clear it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Is this a lifelong protection?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, based on the science of what they call MERS1, where it was 17 years is protection.
TUCKER CARLSON: That was the original coronavirus outbreak.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct. 17 years. This nuclear T cells is out there. So I’ll take that.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’ll take 17 years.
Developing a Universal COVID Vaccine
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Exactly. And you can get a booster. Now, what we’re working on is a universal COVID virus vaccine for all coronaviruses because it’s natural. So what we did… Oh, that’s a good segue to that. During my genomic sequencing, I was building the whole machine learning supercomputing network and I ran the National Lambda Rail for the Gods particle. And I built supercomputers and AI way before AI was. And I presented the AI model to President Obama, believe it or not, in the one pager for healthcare.
Our supercomputer, we combined ourselves with Microsoft. So we had the largest GPU cloud during COVID and we’re able then to actually look at the infectivity of every species, every variant of COVID with every human type. There’s a thing called HLA so that we could actually look at how the virus would change and avoid the T cells. The only thing that it could never do was change the nucleocapsid and never could void the T cells. We made that software public, it is still public, and published it so that anybody could test based on your HLA type and know whether this sequence would be protective.
Through that we are developing what we call a universal COVID vaccine, bioshield T cell vaccine. And we have it. One of my thoughts was just to give it away to somebody. I actually offered to give it away to Regeneron and to Amgen way back, but they were too busy. Everybody was too busy during the COVID time. So one of the ideas now was for me to actually go to the Serum Institute in India and say, here, please go build this and make us available to the world.
We’re a tiny little biotech company relative to the Merck and the Pfizers. But that’s what my goal is. My personal goal is when you say, I’m still doing it, I don’t have a vineyard. The resources that was given to me as like God’s gift, I believe that allowed me to do this. We have hundreds of employees on 40 acres of land in Los Angeles.
The other tragedy was I took over this facility in Dunkirk that New York state had put $200 million in. Completely empty, brand new, amazing facility for national preparedness. And I called Chuck Schumer to help me make that available for the country. Nothing. It’s still sitting there. Available for the country as a national preparedness manufacturing site in Dunkirk, New York, for which we put $50 million in. But there’s no employees in there right now. Without leadership, without skill sets in leadership, and without informed leadership, how we as a country could go down the wrong path. And I’m so hopeful that these next four years could change that.
From Medical Research to Media Ownership
TUCKER CARLSON: So this has been an amazing story. You’re obviously very famous in the medical research world and controversial, but I’m sold on what you said. So everything that you’ve done is, you know, you’ll have a great obit because of it. Then you decide to buy the LA Times in 2018-ish. And owning the main newspaper in the country’s second biggest town makes you obviously a media mogul, but it makes you a political figure as well. LA is so complicated. Like, why would you do that? You don’t need that. Why would you do that?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, I think it really helps to know how I grew up. So I grew up in South Africa during apartheid. I did not see a TV until the age of 21, believe it or not. No TV. South Africa didn’t have TV. So it was just books and newspapers. That was the only way I got educated. Books and newspapers.
To the extent that I would go every day as a newspaper boy to the printing press in Port Elizabeth, sit at the printing press, get the first one off the press, read it, and then run with about 200-300 papers throughout the city. That would be what I did and grew up. So I fell in love with the printing press, the clicky clack and the oil and the smell.
And when the opportunity came, remember, as I said, I had this amazing gift of the resources of selling these two companies that I never anticipated in life with Michael Farrow saying he took over this company called Tribune and named it Tronc, and he was going to shut down the Washington bureau and move all the…
TUCKER CARLSON: So he owned the LA Times?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: He owned the Tribune, actually, the whole thing, yeah. At that point, yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: Chicago Tribune, the Tribune Company, the whole…
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Tribune Company, which included LA Times and San Diego Tribune. And he knew how desperately I wanted the LA Times because I had helped him invest to buy the rest of the Tribune. So I was a minority shareholder. And he came to me and said, hey, Patrick, you want it? Here’s the price. You’ve got 48 hours to decide. And it’s $500 million. No due diligence.
TUCKER CARLSON: No due diligence.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: That was it.
TUCKER CARLSON: Who would take that deal?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Only crazy people. Yes.
TUCKER CARLSON: It’s half a billion dollars and you can’t see the books.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yeah. Nor can you go visit the newsroom, because on Monday we’re going to actually shut all that and move them all out. And I don’t want you to talk to these people. And you have until Monday to decide.
And I was running a conference in LA with all my scientists and the National Cancer Institute, and all the scientists were there at this hotel, and I said, oh, my God. So I went upstairs and we got a private room and I brought all the people into the room and I said, I want to do it. And I called my wife. I said, we want to do this. I think this is an opportunity for us to have a voice for the people. Especially if they’re going to shut down Washington, they’re going to shut down LA. We’ll never have a paper here. This is one of the most important things. So by Monday, I signed it and that was it.
TUCKER CARLSON: And you paid him $500 million.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: $500 million.
TUCKER CARLSON: How grateful was he?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Very.
TUCKER CARLSON: I’m sorry to laugh, but if you hadn’t made so much money, I wouldn’t be laughing because it would be mean.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So, Phil Anschutz saw me at the next Laker game. He says, you know, Patrick, I always thought you’re such a smart guy until yesterday.
Transforming Media for the Future
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: But, you know, I have no regrets. I think what I did then was said, I’m going to take everything I know in healthcare, that rocket ship that I showed you, and then create… Because during that time, Bezos would have this arc. He’d had the software and he had the Washington Post. And his team came to see me and said, listen, we’ve got this ARC software that we want you to run.
I said, no, I don’t like this old software. I’m going to go build a completely new software, content management system that could take podcast, video, live streaming, because I want this newspaper to be an educational moment for people. And at the end of the day, a newspaper is not just a newspaper. It’s a basis of engagement. I want to engage, use this as a tool to engage with people, because that’s how I grew up.
So we took the risk and we built this content management system. Took us five years. And we launched it, which could talk to the printing press and talk to magazines, it could talk to podcasts, it talked to video, talk to live streaming, and now it’s just gone live. It’s called LA Times Studio and LA Times Live.
And the next thing we’re going to do is call LA Times Next. In the LA Times Next, a gentleman called Eric Beach and I are forming so that we could create a platform that would allow voices to be heard and free speech to be heard unencumbered by either opinion or news.
So now we have three platforms. We have a platform of news, which supposedly is fact. We have platform of opinion, which are now changed to voices, meaning everybody should have a voice, whether you’re right voice, left voice, central voice. And then a complete platform that allows free speech and video podcast. And now I have that platform and we’ve built the infrastructure to accommodate that platform.
I’m excited by LA Times Next because we’re going to have a studio in DC. We have a studio in LA, we may have a studio in Nashville. And shows like this are important because I believe long forms like this is how you communicate for people who are interested. And it could be fun, it should be engaging, it should be interesting. And that’s why I bought the paper.
Managing a Diverse Newsroom
TUCKER CARLSON: Well, those are great reasons as far as I’m concerned, but they come with them. The purchase comes with a lot of people who work at the paper. I’ve worked in newsrooms well, my whole life. And I know that they hate change, they hate the owner no matter what. Everybody hates the owner, just on principle. There are a ton of unhappy people in journalism. I would say the overwhelming majority, for whatever reason, we could speculate, and they’re very hard to manage. And they’re roughly about 100 or maybe even more percent left wing everywhere, including at supposedly conservative places. They’re all lefties. So how do you deal with that?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: By being honest and transparent. Head on. And I openly shared with them, I said, listen, we cannot be echo chamber. I won’t tolerate it. It’s okay if you’re left wing, but you need right wing. So I offered Scott Jennings an opportunity to write on the paper. And I said, we need all voices.
And so I said, listen, I don’t know who made these rules because I came into this newspaper, I don’t know the difference between the columnist and op, editorial page and news. And now when you’re merging all of these, can you imagine the layperson not really understanding the difference?
TUCKER CARLSON: That’s right.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: And I want you to say news is news and you’re the newsroom. Fine. Theoretically, everything’s edited, you fact checked it. But when it comes to an opinion, I want to change that to be voices. And I want all voices to be heard. All American voices to be heard. And, you know, the Kamala Harris endorsement, I took a lot of heat because the editorial board resigned by my taking a stand that we cannot be an echo chamber. Opinions not based on facts.
The LA Times Editorial Board Controversy
TUCKER CARLSON: So just for those who didn’t follow it. And it was quite a story for a couple days there it was during the campaign, the editorial board, correct me if I’m wrong, wanted to endorse Kamala Harris. And you said no. What did they say to you and what did you say back to them?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, I can’t put in.
TUCKER CARLSON: You’ve gone pretty far already.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I can just say they were not happy.
TUCKER CARLSON: But what was their pitch like?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So the pitch was, we as a board have met and we have this prepackaged. We know this is outrageous, blah, blah, blah.
TUCKER CARLSON: This prepackaged. What does that mean?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: We had a prepackage endorsement.
TUCKER CARLSON: What do you mean, prepackaged? They’d already written it.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: They’d already written it.
TUCKER CARLSON: After talking to Kamala Harris, never having met her. They never met Kamala Harris?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Never met her.
TUCKER CARLSON: Isn’t the editorial board supposed to interview the candidates, by the way?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: The digital board never met. Even I’m on the digital board. So I said, I’m with Kamala Harris.
TUCKER CARLSON: Was in LA all the time.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Correct.
TUCKER CARLSON: In your neighborhood, actually raising money.
Editorial Decision-Making
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Raising money. Keeping the traffic in trouble. Raising money. And I’d never met her and nor did the board even met her. And I said, this is unacceptable. And they know. They, as you could see because it’s a left leaning. They wrote terrible stories about President Trump, which is, had they met him, not met him either. So my statement to them was, listen, you may have an opinion, but all of us should have opinion based on facts. I mean, one of the statements that came, and I won’t name him, came from a person that said within this concept that Vice President Kamala Harris was the most consequential vice president in the history of the United States.
TUCKER CARLSON: So I said, no, I shouldn’t lie. I don’t mean to be dismissive. On what basis did the person say.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: That, having never met her? So, no, exactly. You just hit it on the head. And I said, on what basis do we say that? What are the facts? Can we actually show the record of that? So I said, but it boiled down to, look, we’re not going to do that. We’re just not going to do it.
TUCKER CARLSON: What did the person say when you asked, why are you saying she’s most consequential Vice President of the United States? What are the facts that underlie that judgment.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I obviously had disagreed with that person. And they had no basis for that other than, as you said, a personal echo chamber. And look, I think I don’t know what they’re trying to protect. I don’t think it’s right that we should be this canceling society. I think we should be a society that can have a civil discourse like we’re having now, and disagree. It’s okay. And understand each other’s point of view. That’s what I think is the value of the paper when you talk about voices. So that’s what I’m instigating now. And so I’ve taken the opportunity.
Editorial Board Resignations
TUCKER CARLSON: Let’s go back to the comma thing really quick. So were they. They were shocked that you canceled, that.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: They were worse than shock. They resigned.
TUCKER CARLSON: They resigned.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: So I had three. Right now, 90% of my editorial voice resigned.
TUCKER CARLSON: Where did they go? Because there are no editorial writing jobs left in the room.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: I have no idea. So, look, I think it’s important. Look, the fact that the courage to resign. Some of them. No. Kevin Merida. I fired. I fired Kevin before they resigned.
TUCKER CARLSON: Why did you fire him?
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: One, because of leadership. Two, because of. I gotta be careful. I don’t want to disparage him. I fired him because I didn’t believe he was the right person or of creating. Taking the paper where it needs to be.
TUCKER CARLSON: He was formerly at the Washington Post.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Washington Post, yeah.
TUCKER CARLSON: I remember that well.
Rebuilding The LA Times
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: And after that episode, their editorial board, the rest of them resigned. And now we’re rebuilding. Look, we have to. And what’s exciting to me is I’m rebuilding with young people. And what’s exciting to me is this opportunity with LA Times Next and LA Times Studio. And in the newsroom, Terry Tang is doing a fantastic job. She’s working hard to take on the people and the productivity.
TUCKER CARLSON: The productivity.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Well, increasing productivity.
TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, you’re employing journalists. Okay, so that’s the world. I understand. Yes, there are some productivity issues there.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you write one slug a month, I think that’s not going to be good.
TUCKER CARLSON: Been there.
The Future of Local Journalism
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: Been there. Yeah. So it’s been an experience. But look, we’re in for the long haul, I think. And look, it’s just not us. By the way, we got to save these local newspapers. We got to save the ability to have local discourse. Now with the LA fires, it’s even more important. Look, I called out Karen Bass and Gavin Newsom and these politicians, you know them both. I know them both. I text with them both and I complain to them both. And what I tell the public is what I tell them. So I don’t say anything behind their back. I personally say, I said, you’re not doing the right thing, whether it be the homelessness. The homelessness. They did a terrible job, a completely wasteful job. So these are the kinds of things that I think it gave us the opportunity to have a say in our community. And that’s what I’ll continue to do. Now we’ll position ourselves in D.C. and I think the next four years will be really, I hope for you, monumental.
TUCKER CARLSON: Doctor, thank you for spending all this time.
DR. PATRICK SOON-SHIONG: All right. No, I really appreciate it. This has been fun and a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.
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