Transcript of Nara Smith Interview: Call Her Daddy Podcast

So I spoke really softly and quietly, and I didn’t wake my kid up, and then I posted it, and that’s how the voice kind of came about. So everything was born out of this really innocent place.

Going Viral

ALEX COOPER: It’s really crazy to know, because I feel like everyone knows that voice, and even people have recreated it. Obviously, people do their Nara Smith voice, and it’s wild to be like, you were just quickly like, “Oh, I gotta get this up and I’m just gonna whisper.” But then after that you’re like, okay, people clearly like it, now I’m gonna give it to them.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Because sometimes you don’t always do the voice, right?

NARA SMITH: When I do my voiceovers, usually I do the voice, and then when I talk directly to camera, it’s usually my normal voice.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah. Okay.

NARA SMITH: And then people always say, “You’re yelling at us.” I’m like, I’m so sorry.

ALEX COOPER: Like, I’m just talking normal, but you’re used to me whispering. Okay. What post do you remember first going viral?

NARA SMITH: It was this one post where we had a bunch of peaches at home, and my kids actually wanted bread and jam. My kids love bread and jam. So I was like, okay, great, let me just make bread for the first time on camera. Why not? So I did. And that was the first video that kind of popped off, because I was like, “My kids stumbled into my room asking me for bread and jam.” And they actually did.

ALEX COOPER: Did it take hours to make?

NARA SMITH: Yeah. Did they still enjoy it and ask for it? Yes. So that was the first video. And then after that, I didn’t really tap into it for a while. I kind of just sprinkled it in, because I didn’t quite realize that people would want that. And then I kind of just continued doing it.

Building a Business

ALEX COOPER: So it started a little bit as like a, “This just so happened,” and you’re kind of recognizing, okay, people like a little bit of this, a little bit of that. But you now have gone on to create and curate such a specific branded world. When do you think this clear vision kind of came to fruition for you, where you were like, this is a business for me, and I actually can execute this on a level that’s not just a fun happenstance thing?

NARA SMITH: I think it kind of took a minute. Everything kind of went insanely viral when I was pregnant with my third baby, Whimsy, and I didn’t really see it as a business. I was like, “Oh great, I’m earning money all of a sudden, I can do this,” but I never thought about it as anything bigger.

But then obviously the more I did it, and the more deals came in, and the more conversations I had with my agents at the time, the more I realized, “Oh, I could actually do this as a job and have the flexibility of being at home with my kids.” And then obviously now it’s evolved into this full-scale business that I’m still executing myself, which is crazy.

I film, I pick the outfits, I pick the recipe, I film it myself on a tripod, I edit it myself. And then when the kids go to sleep, I do the voiceover, get it up the next day. So it’s basically a one-woman show. And it’s been really eye-opening to now be able to basically do whatever I feel like.

ALEX COOPER: It’s really fun, obviously, because again, it’s starting as this fun side thing. Do you remember the moment where you sat down with your husband and you were like, “I think I really wanna lean in and fully put time and effort into this in a business capacity,” not just like, “Oh, I actually have some time on Sunday, let’s do this.” Do you remember when you had that type of conversation together?

NARA SMITH: Yeah. We had that conversation in my first kitchen that you probably remember. But I think it was more so him — he was like, “You know, you can just do this.” And I’m like, “Yeah, I guess.” And he’s like, “No, like, you actually can.”

And I think those conversations kind of happened naturally, because I’m a very ambitious and driven and hardworking woman, to where there was no option but to film and get the video up. So it wasn’t even a conversation where I was asking for permission or asking for anything really. I was just like, “Well, gotta watch the kids, hun, ’cause I gotta film.” And that happened more and more. And he’s like, “Well, can you maybe come up with a better schedule? ‘Cause this seems a little hectic.” I’m like, “Yeah, okay.” But I think it just kind of organically happened, and there was no other option in my mind, because if I do something, I do it.

ALEX COOPER: I love that so much. I love that you’re like, “Lucky, sorry, but get on board.”

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

The Tradwife Label

ALEX COOPER: Can we talk about making something from scratch is one thing. Miss Nara Smith, what are you gonna tell me? But then you look at things that you’ve made from scratch, okay? And we’ve got cough drops, we’ve got cereal, we’ve got chewing gum.

NARA SMITH: I love a good homemade gum.

ALEX COOPER: No, no, the chewing gum— I was like, I can’t believe this woman. I was like, there’s no way. And I think that’s how some people feel. They’re like, is she actually being serious? Is this real? Does she actually make it homemade? I guess my question is like, how intentional are you about selecting recipes that you know people will have the reaction I just had where you’re like, no way?

NARA SMITH: I think it really depends. It sometimes gets born out of me seeing something at the grocery store and being like, can I make this at home? Sometimes it’s Lucky telling me, “Oh, I really want you to make me Takis. Do you think you can do that?” Because he’s obsessed, like obsessed with Takis. So I’m like, I’ll make it for you. Or I think about these random things and challenge myself. And sometimes I’m like, I think this would be really fun. So it really is a mix of different things.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, that’s fair.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

Fashion Evolution

ALEX COOPER: Your fashion choices have evolved. They have. I feel like when I was looking back at your earlier videos, it was like a cute— it was very cute, like dress.

NARA SMITH: Yep.

ALEX COOPER: Sometimes a little apron on, more realistic, I guess you could say. Now obviously we’re hitting full couture in the kitchen, baby.

NARA SMITH: The gloves, the one with the gloves, the scap gloves, the ones with the nails. I was terrified of ruining them. I’m like, I’m so sorry, Daniel, just making some rice pudding.

ALEX COOPER: It is crazy though to see that evolution. Can you talk to me though about those beginning days of— yes, I know you said like I wasn’t getting to wear any of my cute outfits, it’s out of COVID, you’re in your kitchen. But like, did you also have any understanding of the way that you were presenting and what you wanted to present as, as a woman in these videos that you were making?

NARA SMITH: Yeah, I think that one’s a tricky question because at the time when everything kind of started for me, I was pregnant. So I’m the type of person, I will never buy maternity clothes. I refuse. I’m not gonna do that. But that was just me. I didn’t wanna do that ever.

I was a very like jeans and t-shirt type girl. Obviously I loved my fashion, but I was also a street style girl when I lived in Europe before. So I told Lucky when we dated, I was like, “I’m never gonna wear a dress, like good luck.” And then when I was pregnant with my third, I was like, well, can’t really wear my pants, I guess dresses.

And then those were the dresses that I would naturally gravitate towards, like the very cute. I felt very feminine during that pregnancy, so that’s kind of what I naturally gravitated towards. And that kind of expressed itself in the cute collar colors and the very feminine-looking dresses that I guess people connected with different things. But that wasn’t like intentional. It was more so I was pregnant, I needed to wear a dress, and I felt very whimsical and feminine during that. So that’s kind of what my fashion choices reflected. And I didn’t fit a lot of like couture dresses because I had a bump.

The Image That Was Created

ALEX COOPER: You had a bump. That’s where— and I’m sure you can kind— yeah, let’s get into it. I can feel, you can probably feel where I’m going with this girl. Because I’m like, there was an image that started to be created.

NARA SMITH: Yep.

ALEX COOPER: And while people loved your content, I think a larger conversation really started to bud from Nara Smith and who she was and what she was standing for.

NARA SMITH: Yep.

ALEX COOPER: What she was representing for women. What do you remember just about the early commentary around you and your brand and your videos?

NARA SMITH: At that point, I was very much online, so I would read the comments. I’d be like, “Well, this is weird because I don’t feel like that, and my reality is so different to what people are assuming based off of the 1.5-minute videos they see.” So I was very confused where that conversation came from. But then the more I read about it, I’m like, you know what, yeah, but I’m also correcting the narrative, but you’re not listening.

ALEX COOPER: So let’s call it what it is. People started to compare you to tradwife.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And people were like—

NARA SMITH: They kind of used me as the poster child for the tradwife movement, which was very bizarre to me.

ALEX COOPER: Why was that bizarre to you?

NARA SMITH: It was bizarre to me for a multitude of reasons. But you know what? Let’s Google what the definition of a tradwife is.

ALEX COOPER: Well, that’s perfect because I was actually going to ask you, what do you consider a tradwife?

NARA SMITH: Well, I had to look up the term. Because to me, I wasn’t familiar with that, right? I didn’t quite know what it means. But the fast answer is a tradwife is a woman who embraces or promotes a traditional model of marriage and family life where she typically prioritizes being a homemaker and a primary caregiver for kids, takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household, supports her husband’s role as the primary breadwinner, often values traditional gender roles within marriage.

So with that definition and those points, I’m none of that. And we can go through it point by point. I don’t prioritize being a homemaker. I’m a working mom. I am out in LA. I travel a lot. Sure, do I love cooking because it’s my passion and because I kind of have to do it given my autoimmune? Absolutely. But that’s a passion of mine. It’s a hobby. It’s not something that I need to be doing for— what, right?

ALEX COOPER: Keep going. I like this. You know what, this is good.

NARA SMITH: Primary caregiver for my kids? No, my husband and I split it 50/50. When he works, I watch them. When I work, he watches them. And now, given everything that’s been going on, we also have help. My mom’s out. We have someone that helps us with the kids because it’s just not doable for me to do it all. So that doesn’t really work, right?

Takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household. Yeah, I like to cook. Okay, sue me. I like to cook. My husband burns everything apart from a good steak, so he’ll do that. But I like cooking, so I’m doing it. Household and cleaning— he does the dishes. I don’t touch the dishes. There’s no way you’re gonna see me washing and scrubbing the dishes. Also, he cleans our house because he grew up—

ALEX COOPER: He grew— that’s Lucky.

NARA SMITH: Okay, his mom was very, very specific with cleaning to where they had like Saturday crew. And he has sisters, so someone was in charge of the baseboard, someone was in charge of the toilet, someone was in charge of this. So he’s very specific with how things need to be cleaned, so he does it perfect. So that doesn’t make any sense.

Supports the husband’s role as the primary breadwinner. No, we both work. That doesn’t make any sense. I provide for our family.

Breaking Out of the Box

ALEX COOPER: So really, I think what’s happening is they’re taking the image of a woman in a kitchen, in a gorgeous dress, and they are assuming that this is your life and we are going back in time and this is like a very traditional image.

NARA SMITH: There’s also a bigger conversation to be had because everything that I’ve been reading online, I find it very concerning almost that we need to put women in very specific, very narrow boxes in order to make sense of things. I don’t think so. Why can’t we do it all? Why can’t we be a working mom that enjoys cooking, that enjoys being at home and taking care of our kids, but also is on the next plane out to LA to take business meetings with big executives? Why can’t that coexist? And I think that’s something that’s very concerning to me, that a woman can’t exist under any terms but the little boxes we put them in.

ALEX COOPER: And media literacy is another issue, but it’s like, I do think that you are creating a brand, right? And so you’re seeing consistently that something is working.

NARA SMITH: Yep.

ALEX COOPER: And I guess when I think about that though, some people could argue, okay, well, the way that you’re presenting, we’re only really seeing for a while one version of you, which is a lot of the videos you started with is saying like, “My husband is craving this, so I’m gonna make him this.” And so it leaves a lot of room for assumptions, right? She looks like she’s wearing the dress. She looks this way. She’s making this for her husband. And so some people could argue, well, for a while we didn’t see the business side of you.

NARA SMITH: That’s true.

ALEX COOPER: We didn’t know any of this. So we were assuming that you’re just like stuck in the kitchen making these things. But obviously now as you’ve opened up more, we’re getting to know a little bit more about you. So did you at all see why people could think that way in the beginning?

NARA SMITH: Yeah, 100%.

ALEX COOPER: How did you deal with that though?

Debunking the “Tradwife” Narrative

NARA SMITH: Crying to my husband. I’d be like, what is happening? Did they not know that I worked as a model? I’ve been working since I’ve been 14. Like, all these things. But I think I am very fair and compassionate. Like, I understand where that can come from.

But then the more that narrative started swelling, I was like, well, let me say something. So I remember posting this video of this morning routine, and my voiceover was me being a working mom and traveling and kind of debunking all of that. But then a lot of the comments were still that narrative. And I realized that a lot of the people that are very, very stuck in this narrative do not wanna be corrected.

ALEX COOPER: They don’t wanna hear that. No.

NARA SMITH: There was this one situation with someone on my team where we were trying to work with this person, and the person was like, “I don’t care what you say, what you do, what you show me, what Forbes articles you show me of her business. She is a tradwife to me, and I don’t wanna work with her.” So that kind of opened my eyes as well to the opposite end of— I think I could sit here all day and try to debunk this narrative when some people, not everyone, but some people just don’t want to be corrected.

ALEX COOPER: No, they don’t. And I also think there is a frustration around people wanting something to just be at face value what it is. And some people are really lazy and don’t have any interest in getting underneath something. And you can even go all the way back to the beginning days for Call Her Daddy for me. Like, the girl that only talks about sex — well, of course there’s more to me. And I of course saw that there was something in the market that there was no one talking about it in the way that it would— like, there’s so much more.

But I think it’s easier to kind of pigeonhole a woman and keep her in that lane. I also think it’s very threatening, to be honest, to think of you as more than just a very gorgeous woman who is making these concoctions that are so extravagant. You’re also a businesswoman, and you’re fully aware of what you’re doing, and you’re editing it, you’re putting it together. Like, then you’re the whole package, and we don’t like that as a woman. Because then you’re a threat, right? And so that’s so interesting that that woman was like, “I don’t want to hear it.”

NARA SMITH: It was actually a guy. Oh well, but the women aren’t different. Like, I’ve stumbled across a fair amount of women that are exactly like that. So I think it’s not very gender specific. I think there’s just a bigger issue as a society that we have.

Misconceptions About Nara and Lucky’s Relationship

ALEX COOPER: Can you talk to me about, in a cute way — obviously, like I referenced, there’s a lot of videos that you were like, “My husband is craving this, so I’m gonna make it.” What do you think early days— because I do think we’ve gotten to know you and Lucky a little bit more, and that just happens sometimes with time. And yes, unfortunately, you lightly having to share a little bit more, but like early days, what were some misconceptions you felt about you and your husband and those dynamics? And how did that impact you behind the camera with the two of you?

NARA SMITH: I don’t really know exactly what those misconceptions are because I kind of took a step back from the internet. But I think one of them is obviously the tradwife narrative, that there’s like very specific gender roles. Like, do I like my husband filling up my gas tank? Absolutely. Do I like all these things that I don’t want to be doing? Yeah, I don’t want to close my own suitcase, do it for me.

But I think that there was all this misconception around him being this very specific dominant male person when behind the scenes it’s not like that. We’ve always been very equal and understanding of each other. And there was always a conversation that we had. So I never felt like whatever the public saw was what was going on.

Leaning Into the Narrative

ALEX COOPER: Interesting. Okay, so something I took from your book that was interesting— also, congratulations.

NARA SMITH: Thank you.

ALEX COOPER: It’s beautiful, homemade. We’re gonna talk more about it. But something you said is, “A lot of what I do is tongue-in-cheek. I push buttons. I follow instincts.” Can we talk about leaning in? Because I think there’s a version of like, you know it’s working.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, 100%.

ALEX COOPER: And even if it’s pissing people off, you’re still gonna put on the dress.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And it’s gonna look— yeah, like it’s gonna look.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And how do you balance that? Because I think there are some people that can say, okay, you clearly are aware that people are assuming this looks a little tradwifey, right? And so some people can say, well, she’s leaning in and it’s brilliant, she’s making money off of it, but she knows who she is clearly. And then other people could say it is regressive. Like, how are you toeing that line?

NARA SMITH: I think I’ve also evolved in my personal style. Like, obviously during my pregnancy it was very feminine and kind of leaning towards that aesthetic, but now not being pregnant, I fit all my sample size clothes, so — oh, let me just go do that. And now it’s like, now I don’t necessarily see where that tradwife angle is coming from because I don’t think a tradwife would be cooking in like Schiaparelli, you know, or a Moschino look straight off the runway. Like, I don’t think that’s what a tradwife would do. So now I understand it even less. So that’s a little tricky, but I feel like, you know, let them think what they’re gonna think, because it is interesting.

ALEX COOPER: I feel like I’ve had a lot of fascinating conversations with women in this room where it’s like we are all aware of the society we are still living in and the double standards for women. And I think it really paints the picture of hearing about that reporter — the Nara Smith who came on the scene and there were a lot of misconceptions there. You are never going to change specific people’s opinions. They will always remember you as just that girl. I am still labeled sometimes like the girl that talked about blowjobs, and I’m like, oh man, that was a decade ago. Wow, that’s crazy.

NARA SMITH: Like, I’ve interviewed all these different people and it felt very detached from what the public perception is. So sometimes I don’t even really recognize it.

ALEX COOPER: But I think what’s interesting is there’s also the debate about being a woman and finding that perfect balance of like recognizing, well, why don’t I just lean in?

NARA SMITH: Right.

ALEX COOPER: Because if this is the society we live in and this is what’s happening, but not losing yourself in it. I think that’s where there’s a lot of nuance to it, I guess is what I’m saying. And so the voice and the dresses, it’s smart. You’re monetizing off of this thing. And I get that people who don’t understand the nuance can just be enraged in the capacity that is lightly pushing on the boundary of like, it’s a gray area. It is. Like the gray area, Nara.

NARA SMITH: But I feel like I don’t mind being in the gray area. I’ve kind of detached myself from what the public perception is because I know I’m not that. And I feel like, here’s the thing, I tried so hard to correct the narrative, right? People didn’t want to listen. I’m still kind of — I’m like, “This is not what I am, so I want to make it very clear.” And I think if people don’t want to understand that, they don’t want to understand that, and that’s just all right to me.

But I do want to push people’s mental boundaries to be like, oh, a woman can exist in all these different spaces. And I feel like I’m trying to do that. And another reason why we’re talking about this is because I think people should really try to listen, because it’s not just me. I think that women in general, in all different areas of their lives, get put into these categories. And I want to have that bigger conversation of let’s not do that as a society. Let’s let women exist in the spaces that they want to exist and not pigeonhole them into one specific thing, because women are multifaceted. Like, we do it all in whatever capacity that is, whether that’s in the working field or at home or wherever that may be. And I think let’s have a bigger conversation and not zero in on what I do because it’s not accurate.

ALEX COOPER: It’s such a good point, and I appreciate you clarifying that because I agree — it’s not your job to clarify it, but it is frustrating when you see a woman in media who is such a good example of the double standard of like, why are we painting you in this one capacity? We’re pretending like she’s just slaving over her husband in the kitchen, and it’s like, that’s just not what it is.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what to tell you, but let’s have a bigger conversation here and see what really is the issue, because I’m not the issue. Something that is happening for you is the issue. So let’s chat about it.

ALEX COOPER: It’s very threatening. It’s very threatening.

Parenting With Lucky

ALEX COOPER: Let’s talk about this concept of people labeling you and projecting things onto you when it comes to motherhood. What do you think would surprise people about how you and Lucky complement each other as parents?

NARA SMITH: Maybe how involved he is. I think there’s this weird standard where people are like, “He’s holding the baby. He’s watching the baby.” What do you mean he’s watching his baby? He’s a dad, of course. So I think there’s this weird societal thing that’s happening where it’s like, who’s watching the baby? What do you mean he has two? Like, he’s a dad.

ALEX COOPER: And I think what’s hard is people again really struggle. Like, you post so much online.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And so if you’re the primary one that’s posting, they somehow believe that he’s not a part of certain things. And it’s like, no guys, there’s a complete other life outside of social media that people choose to not—

NARA SMITH: I’m very selective with what I post and how I post and how much I share of my life because I used to be a lot more open. But then the more traction my social media got, the more people came to my page, the more people kind of pieced things together that were so inaccurate to what was going on, to where I kind of felt like I had to take a step back and really evaluate what I show and how I show.

ALEX COOPER: Can you give an example that kind of forced you to be a little less open?

Protecting Her Kids Online

NARA SMITH: There was this incident of me posting my kids, and then there was this TikTok video where someone— I don’t even know how they got it, but they got like a story that I posted on Instagram about my daughter like a year and a half prior to me even having TikTok. So I’m like, where did this video come from? It was an Instagram story, not even an in-feed post, and it had millions of views. And it was just her sitting on the couch, and she’s so cute, but the comments— it had like 200,000 likes. It had like 8,000 comments or like so many. And so many of the comments were like, “I can’t wait for her to be older,” or “her eyes are so pretty,” or “look at those lips.”

And then I’d go on the profiles and it was like old men, to where I realized I’m actually doing my kids a disservice by exposing them and making them vulnerable on the internet. To where I’m like, okay, kids are off limits.

So when I do work shoots with the kids, like there was this Skims photo shoot that we did, a holiday shoot we did last year, where I told the team, I’m like, “I would love to do a family photo shoot, but these are my boundaries.” And a lot of people I work with are very understanding. Skims was so understanding about it, so accommodating.

But there’s just— there’s dangers on the internet that I need to protect my kids from. So that was one of those experiences, or just like little books they’d see in the back, or the whole religious thing. I’m like, no, but okay, I get why you’re saying that, so let me take a step back because you’re actually misunderstanding things I put out. So I kind of put myself in this little bubble to where I just want to keep things that are very personal to me personal to me.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, I think there’s been obviously such an uptick in the conversation around posting children online, and it’s a really controversial one just because of the amount of evidence we’re seeing of how destructive and exploitative it can be, and seeing how many disgusting people are online and are consuming the content in a way that you wish this is not the world that we lived in, but unfortunately that is the reality.

And so to some degree it is the parent’s job to protect the children. How have you and Lucky— like, what is the boundary of like when to share, when to not share?

NARA SMITH: Yeah, I think we kind of take it situation by situation. Because if Vogue came knocking on my door and they were like, “We want you and the kids on the cover,” I’d be like, well, if my kid grows up and I say no to that, would they feel like they missed out on some— like, I don’t know. We definitely talk about it situation by situation.

But when it comes to social media and social media content, no kids’ faces. I don’t want them being recognized. I don’t want anything. So I just— they’re a part of my life, so obviously they can be a part of my content, but then it’s just them running around or whatever, to not see their face.

So I feel like I’m still navigating kind of how to— what to show and what not to show, because I care about my community and I love that we’re all in this together and that people show up and support. And I’ve really built a close relationship with my community to where I feel like I really want you to see as much of my life as you can. But then also I know that I have to set boundaries because if I don’t, then what are you gonna do?

ALEX COOPER: It’s also so hard. It’s so interesting you’re saying this because I was talking to someone recently about it and the conversation around sharing your children online. I’m like, it’s so crazy to me though that the people who don’t, you see a lot of women get like, “Oh, she must be a bad mother. Like we never see her with her kid.” That conversation. And I’m like, I’m already ready for that for me, because I’m like, oh my God, people are gonna be like, “She’s never with her kid.” I’m like, no, no, I don’t post my kid. There’s a very different— but again, if they don’t see it, then they don’t believe it.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, that’s kind of been an ongoing thing. It’s like, “Oh, where are your kids? What are you doing? Lucky never— he’s never with his kids.” I’m like, if I were to turn this camera around, you would see 4 screaming kids and Lucky trying to wrangle them all. But I’m not sparing you. And all you see is me in my pretty dress making Skittles. Okay.

ALEX COOPER: Because we’re just keeping it for the brand. We’re uploading a video that you wanna see.

NARA SMITH: Right.

ALEX COOPER: Enjoy.

NARA SMITH: Right.

Childhood, Curiosity, and Raising Her Kids

ALEX COOPER: Talking about motherhood and family, what is something from your own childhood that you are intentionally wanting to replicate?

NARA SMITH: I think the curiosity. I feel like growing up I was always very encouraged to be curious and ask about things and understand how things worked, and be knowledgeable about things. My dad was very German growing up. He would play this game with us where he’d get a globe, it would light up like a world globe, and he would spin the globe, and then he’d stop it, and then he’d point to this. He’s like, “What is this country? What’s the capital? How many people live there?” That was like our— he would not chase us around the yard, he would do that with us.

Or he would get me this like really thick— I remember it was like thick purple velvet, just a book about Greek mythology, and he would quiz me on it, or like a book about Marie Antoinette. And I was like, what, 6 or 7?

So I think just that knowledge and that curiosity, it’s made me very aware of things. And I’ve always had this deep feeling of just, “But why? Why are we doing this? Why are you saying these things to me? What’s the bigger message?” And I want my kids to really have that understanding of the world and really dig deep when it comes to things. I don’t want them to be followers. I want them to be leaders, strong leaders.

ALEX COOPER: Have you noticed at all, because I know they’re young, but have you noticed any of them having that same curiosity that you have?

NARA SMITH: Oh, Rumble, my 5-year-old, she’s exactly like me. I’m like, tone it down a little bit.

ALEX COOPER: Wait, you’re like, hold on.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, it’s really funny seeing their personalities slowly emerge. Rumble is like me. Slim is like Lucky, very quiet and reserved but so smart and so brilliant. Whimsy, she’s like our little fiery one, but I—

ALEX COOPER: She’s the third.

NARA SMITH: She’s the third.

ALEX COOPER: I’m the third. Sounds like—

NARA SMITH: Oh, so you get it.

ALEX COOPER: You’re just constantly pushing buttons.

NARA SMITH: Pushing buttons. But she also— no one’s gonna tell her crap, and she’s also very aware of situations to where, if she doesn’t like someone, there’s a reason. So I’m never like, “Be nice.”

ALEX COOPER: No, you don’t question her.

NARA SMITH: No, I don’t question her.

ALEX COOPER: Like, oh, I know what you’re—

NARA SMITH: No, because she’s very observant. And then Fawnie is just 9 months. She’s along for the ride.

ALEX COOPER: We’re gonna figure that out. Yeah, we’re gonna figure out Fawnie soon. I’ll see you later and you’ll give me the update.

NARA SMITH: Yes.

Unlearning the Past: Parents, Marriage, and Conflict

ALEX COOPER: Is there anything that you’re doing differently that you’re like, “Oh, I wanna change that from my childhood?”

NARA SMITH: Patience. I think my parents weren’t very patient, so I think just being patient and trying to really get on their level, which from what I understand is a huge thing for parenthood that you’re like, I’m struggling.

ALEX COOPER: Patience.

NARA SMITH: Patience, right?

ALEX COOPER: Before you’re like, don’t freak out, just give yourself some patience. That word, I need to paint that everywhere in my home.

NARA SMITH: No, truly, I think that’s something that has been really hard for me because I’m very like, “Let’s just do it. Let’s just— why aren’t you putting on your shoes?”

ALEX COOPER: Like, let’s go.

NARA SMITH: And I just really had to take a deep breath and I’m like, they’re tiny humans. That’s what I remind myself of. They’re tiny humans that haven’t done a lot before. And you just need to realize that putting yourself in the state of mind they’re in, of course they’re asking me why they have to go to bed because they don’t know what time it is or what’s going on.

ALEX COOPER: Of course. Patience.

NARA SMITH: Patience.

ALEX COOPER: What did love look like in your house to you, of your parents? What is that face?

NARA SMITH: You know, my parents have a really complicated relationship. They’ve always been so loving, and they were the best— well, they are—

ALEX COOPER: Were—

NARA SMITH: They are the best parents ever. They’ve taught me so much and have really grown a lot also. And now as an adult, I see them totally different. I think being married now and having kids, where I might have been hurt as a teenager being like, “Why are you guys fighting? Or why are you doing this?”— now I have a lot of compassion for each of them individually and together, to where I understand the choices that they’ve made. I understand why they did certain things.

So I think my relationship with them has really changed and evolved over all these years. But yeah, they didn’t have the best marriage and they didn’t have the best dynamic at home. So a lot of things that I’m unlearning now stemmed from that. But I love them so much, and I have a great relationship with both of them.

ALEX COOPER: Did they stay together, or did they—

NARA SMITH: They’re still together, but it was very tumultuous.

ALEX COOPER: So, no, but I think that’s interesting of like when a lot of people grew up in a tumultuous situation with watching their parents, but then there was a divorce or a separation, that also can teach you to like really stick things through, but like, at what point should you not, right? And so I’m sure there’s things that you’re trying to figure out of like, how do you handle conflict when you and Lucky are fighting? If you watch something very particular and specific repeated in your household, there’s like some unlearning that has to go on.

NARA SMITH: Yeah. And the older I get, the more I realize that my parents are great parents, but when it comes to their marriage, they were not the best example for marriage whatsoever. So then getting married at a really young age— we got married when I was 18 and had our first baby when I was 19. So I never had a good example of how to navigate conflict, how to navigate a disagreement, how to navigate speaking my mind without feeling like I cannot.

Like, all these things that were internal to me, not so much about my partner, right? It was never that much about my partner. It was more about me and the things that I’ve learned. And we’ve gone to couples therapy. I think that’s a great tool. I think doing therapy yourself and really just looking— I feel like being married is like a mirror. Like, you’re all of a sudden in this space where you’re confronted by all the things that you may or may not be doing wrong, or things that you’ve learned that might not be the best for you. And then all of a sudden, you have to work on that because otherwise, your relationship will not be the way that you’d want it to be.

Postpartum Anxiety and the Weight of New Motherhood

ALEX COOPER: And thinking about that, Nara, I completely agree. And then adding on the level of having children in the midst of also trying to be— you’re young, you’re taking care of yourself, you’re fostering your relationship with your husband. And then I know you’ve got 4 kids in 5 years.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, my oldest is 5.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, in 5 years. Last year you did post about struggling with postpartum anxiety.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And can you just describe what those first few weeks after having your daughter and giving birth— like, what were those like?

Postpartum Realities: The Mental and Physical Toll

NARA SMITH: Each pregnancy was so different. My first pregnancy and my first experience postpartum was like, what the heck is happening? Because I feel like we always talk about conceiving and then being pregnant and then birth, but what happens after? And I think being young and maybe me, I was very impulsive. I’m like, whatever, yeah, I’ll have a baby. So I never really sat down. I never did a birthing class. I’ve never read a book to the end. Sure, did I start? You know those books that you always get? The baby whatever.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

NARA SMITH: I got a few pages in and then I’m like, whatever. So I clearly didn’t really know a lot. But then when I had my first baby, even giving birth, I’m like, oh, the baby’s out, great. And then they’re like, okay, you need to keep pushing. Get the placenta. I’m like, what placenta? What are you talking about? I had no idea.

And then postpartum, you all of a sudden— well, I gave birth in my midwife’s office, which had a bedroom, so it was like a birthing center but not really. I don’t know, it was a room with whatever. So I got sent home with this baby right after giving birth, and I’m like, I don’t know what to do. I have no idea, but I’m just gonna follow my gut. I’ve always been the type of person to like, I know in my gut what’s right, and I know I’ll know what to do. And then I had my mom-in-law there as well to help because it was during COVID, so my parents couldn’t come. But that first experience was really rough. But I think I also just kept it pushing.

But then my fourth experience— each experience was rough in whatever way, but my fourth experience, she was a surprise baby. So we were done after our third, and then I found out I was pregnant with her and I was freaking out. I remember everyone I called — my agent, my pa— I didn’t tell my parents for the longest time. I didn’t really wanna tell my agent, but then I’m like, I don’t fit anything, I need to tell her.

I was at the Schiaparelli show wearing this dress, and I just remember I flew into Paris that same morning and I was just throwing up on the way there. I’m like, I actually need to tell people. So I was terrified because I just— I don’t know what that feeling was, but I just knew I was at a point in my career and in my home life where I felt very settled, and I knew what the pregnancy would do to my body and my mental and all these things and my stamina.

ALEX COOPER: So speaking it into existence would make it more overwhelming.

NARA SMITH: Yes. So I didn’t want to tell anyone, took the longest time to tell people. I truly just really didn’t think about it at all until it hit me right before she was born. I’m like, oh, I’m actually having a baby. And then all the emotions kind of came in, and then I went into labor on my birthday actually. Right after midnight she was born. It was a great labor, whatever. I gave birth, Lucky helped me. And we were sitting there.

And then the next morning I woke up, and that was one of the scariest experiences postpartum for me because it genuinely felt like everything was a dream. I told Lucky, I was like, it feels like I’m gonna wake up tomorrow and I would have never been pregnant. I don’t have a baby. Like, this doesn’t feel real. What is happening? I was terrified. I told him like, I don’t feel like I’m here. Am I here? Like, did I— I looked at him one night and I’m like, did I die? And he got so concerned, he called his sister and his mom and he’s like, is this normal? Like, what’s going on?

And then I didn’t tell my midwife because— I just sometimes have a hard time conveying hard emotions to people because I want to be seen as this very collected, strong woman, to where I don’t want people to think I’m unwell. No pun intended. And it was really hard. I had really bad postpartum anxiety for like 2 weeks. I remember I didn’t tell anyone I gave birth online. It took me a hot minute to let people know because it felt like it didn’t happen. Every morning I’d wake up looking at this baby being like, who are you? And I’d never had that experience before, and that was really, really hard.

And then the postpartum anxiety kicked in to where I was like, I don’t know what to do. And then through it all, I still had to work. Like, 3 weeks after she was born, I was shooting cookbook images in— where was it? The Catskills or somewhere. Somewhere like an hour and a half away. I don’t know where it was, but we were shooting at this house, and she was 3 weeks old, and I just had to keep it pushing. So it was almost like I was so disconnected from myself and my body and reality. Like everything. It felt like I was living this warped reality, and it took me a hot minute to find myself back in my body.

ALEX COOPER: And understandably, yeah.

NARA SMITH: And then the minute I did, I was like, oh, we’ve got a rhythm here, you know, like everything’s okay. We find out Whimsy has cancer. It was just a mess. And then on top of all of that, I was still posting my videos, I was still posting stories and being like, today my kids were— while internally I was crumbling, truly crumbling. And I was like zipping up my dresses being like, okay, let’s just go do it, let’s just take the meeting. Oh, next flight out to here. Okay, I’m bringing the baby. Oh, pumping. Okay, wait.

ALEX COOPER: It felt like you’re just going on autopilot to just get through, get through, get through, get through, and you’re not processing anything.

NARA SMITH: Deadlines for the book, like there was no messing around. There was no messing around.

The Reality of Postpartum Anxiety and Intrusive Thoughts

ALEX COOPER: I think what you’re describing is probably one of the more realistic experiences that women have after birth. And I think that even saying that out loud, there’s a lot of women that are like, is that true? And it’s like, yes. Almost — I would say, let’s say I have 10 of my girlfriends that have children, 7 of them have had extreme postpartum anxiety, really intrusive thoughts. I remember when I got pregnant and my friend came to me and basically was like, I just wanna say something, not to freak you out, but I wanna say it before you give birth because I need you to remember this moment.

NARA SMITH: What’d she say?

ALEX COOPER: She basically was like, there is a chance, and I hope it doesn’t happen to you, but there is a chance you are gonna have some really crazy dark thoughts.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Like crazier than you could probably ever imagine. Really intrusive thoughts. And it’s okay. And it’s actually way more normal, but no one talks about it because as a woman — like you just said, you didn’t tell your midwife — because you wanna present as strong. And then there’s the added level of like, you just gave birth, you should be so happy. You should present as this okay figure. Because the mother not being okay — like, oh my God, what’s wrong with you? Because now we don’t have as much empathy anymore because you don’t have the baby in the belly. Like you gotta get your s* together.

And so there’s all these pressures to bounce back and get back, and it’s like, I can’t imagine the internal struggle emotionally that you were going through and that you had to fight that battle somewhat on your own. Of course you can share it with your husband, but like, it’s on you in a capacity. Of course you should share it, but it’s overwhelming.

NARA SMITH: It’s so overwhelming. And I think it doesn’t get talked about enough, and there’s not a safe enough space for women to really voice how they’re feeling. And I think it is really important, postpartum, to be open. I think that’s what I learned through my last experience. I’m like, I really wish I would have told my midwife or gotten a therapist or someone to just help navigate.

Because on a physical level, your hormones plummet. That’s just what it is. You go through the largest plummet in your hormones that you ever can possibly have in your life. So I think as women, I really encourage everyone that’s having a hard postpartum experience to really seek help, because I promise you’re not gonna get seen as weak or not capable or whatever. More so, it will give you the tools to really have that community.

And even with intrusive thoughts — no one talks about it because it’s scary, because you don’t want anyone to think that you would ever do anything to your baby or that you would harm yourself or whatever it is. And no one really creates that safe space of it being okay, but it is okay. And you can also have people in your space that will understand and help you navigate it.

ALEX COOPER: So many women who’ve gone through it would be like, yes. But to a normal person, maybe who—

NARA SMITH: They’re like, what’s wrong with you? You need help. But not in a way that’s bad, more so in a way of like, let’s support and give you a good foundation to feel your best. Not because you’re bad, but because you need a stable foundation.

ALEX COOPER: And I also think, when there is something in life where it’s like, if this is happening so regularly, then that is the norm. It’s not normal to live like that forever, but there is clearly scientifically proven that women, after all of these hormones drop, you’re going to go through this potentially.

NARA SMITH: It needs to be talked about.

ALEX COOPER: It needs to be talked about. I hope this makes women feel less alone. And also, we’re hopefully just through this conversation chipping away a little bit at the stigma of postpartum, the anxiety, the intrusive thoughts — you are not alone, you are not crazy. And that is where I think women coming together and talking about it makes other women finally feel like, oh my God. There’s a woman that’s gonna watch this right now and be like, girls, I never needed that more than to hear that I’m not insane for having these thoughts.

NARA SMITH: No, you’ve just gone through the most life-altering experience ever that you will ever go through. Give yourself grace and also recognize that you really have grown a human being. Every single bit of this human being you’ve grown — from nails to hair follicles to organs to brain to skull, everything. And then you’ve given birth to this human being, and then what, you’re just supposed to resume business as usual? No, that’s physically not how it works and mentally not how it works.

And I think we talk about the physical maybe even more than the mental. I feel like postpartum in general is not talked about enough. But if we do talk about it, it’s like, oh, you’re gonna have this, or you’re gonna not be able to do this, or let’s figure out the nursing or whatever it may be. But no one necessarily talks about all the things that could happen mentally after.

The Postpartum Body Conversation

ALEX COOPER: It’s so true. I was thinking about that, because it is such an adjustment — your mind and your body — and they’re both going through such different things.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: There’s a large conversation around postpartum bodies. I mean, that’s a constant conversation, but I feel like you kind of got put into the mix after you gave birth to Bonnie. I did. Some people online really celebrated how quickly you appeared to recover, and they were talking about, I think it was like a mirror selfie or whatever it was, or a picture of you. And then while others talked about the pressure that this puts on women to bounce back after having a baby. How did you feel about being a part of that conversation, and how have you navigated that?

Whimsy’s Cancer Diagnosis

NARA SMITH: I think that postpartum looks so different for everybody. Bodies are different for everybody. Some people bounce back really quick, some people don’t. Some people get stretch marks, some people don’t. I think that we as women should uplift every single woman postpartum, and I think, yes, did I post a picture that maybe evoked emotion in other women or other people in general? Yes.

But what people don’t realize is that to me, that picture wasn’t me at my best and my normal. I was crying that same morning. I was wearing a diaper in that picture. I was wearing linen pants because I didn’t fit a single one of my denim pants that I had. I was way above my usual weight. I didn’t feel like myself. And I posted that picture being like, I don’t feel like myself, but my body is magical because look what it just did. And I’m really proud of that. And that was my postpartum experience. But I think in general, we should celebrate everyone for where they’re at postpartum.

ALEX COOPER: I completely agree. I think that there’s such a pressure when it comes to even just the concept of bounce back culture. Again, focusing more on how we do it mentally, girlies. The body is the most incredible thing, and the fact that we as women are able to do what we’re able to do in these moments is insane. And so just to be alive after that experience is like, yes, I’m happy.

And so I think understandably people are going to have insecurities that come with, again, extreme changes, but to put another woman down for something she can’t control — and also, you shouldn’t feel like you have to hide it.

NARA SMITH: I think it’s one thing what the public sees, but then it’s also so different to how I feel. I think that being a mother looks so different for every single person, and I think we should really celebrate everyone for where they’re at and the safety that it takes to share whatever they want to share. I think that we should really just make it a safe space for women in general, regardless of what your postpartum looks like, whether you bounce back or you don’t.

Because to me, someone bouncing back might look a certain way, right? I’m like, oh, because I compare myself too sometimes. I’m like, ugh, that mom really just did it. She’s thriving. She just did this. But being a mom myself and having gone through birth, I’m like, what she shows me is probably her best, or she wants to show parts of herself that she feels really good about or that she wants to share for whatever purpose that may be. I’m not going to compare myself to anyone.

ALEX COOPER: I think that actually leads us perfectly into this next conversation because it really is such an indicator of, guys, anything you see on social media, you don’t have the full story, even freaking close. At this point, I am convinced we are maximum in moments getting 10% of a lot of people’s lives, and that is, for some people, generous.

Sharing Whimsy’s Diagnosis Publicly

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: As you are navigating postpartum, you find out that your daughter Whimsy has cancer.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Can you explain just how you decided for you and your family that it was the right time to even share this news publicly?

NARA SMITH: It took a lot. I told myself I’m not gonna get emotional. Sorry.

ALEX COOPER: Sorry, I got tissues. You’re good.

NARA SMITH: I think — I mean, it all boiled down to when we found out about everything and then all the behind the scenes and everything that was going on. Lucky and I did have those conversations, and my fear — I always had this lingering fear, well, what if someone takes a video of us in the hospital and they put it out? Because when we were in the hospital, people would come up to us and say, “Hey, can I get a picture with you? Can you say hi to my friend?” And they probably didn’t know that we were going through the hardest time of our lives. So obviously I smiled and said, of course you can, and took the picture.

But I was always nervous that people would kind of piece it together, or someone would talk, or whatever. And to me, her safety and privacy was the most important thing. So I would always go back and forth with Lucky saying, “Should we just share it? Should we just talk about it? What if someone else does?” And he’s like, “But that doesn’t matter. What do you feel like in your heart?” And I always came back to the fact that I don’t wanna share it. I don’t wanna talk about it. I don’t want her out there. I don’t want any of that.

So then as time went on and as we went through all the treatments and had really hard days and slightly easier days, I found a lot of community in the hospital talking to parents or the nurses, or going on Reddit and reading people’s stories. And the more I kind of went through that, I realized that I find a lot of comfort in knowing that I’m not alone.

So then right after her birthday, she was in remission. We finished her last treatment. We rang the bell. It was very emotional. And I just realized, well, maybe if I use my platform to make even just one person feel less alone, I can do that. And that’s kind of why we shared it.

ALEX COOPER: I can’t even imagine, Nara, you being in that hospital and the anxiety of trying to protect your baby. And also being this public person. I’m sure there was just so many emotions around, like, oh my God, I want to turn this part of my life off right now because this is all that matters. I can imagine the anxiety on top of already the trauma that you and your family are having to endure. It was really hard when you found out this diagnosis. What do you remember about that day?

The Day They Found Out

NARA SMITH: I just remember we were actually coming back from a big family photo shoot, the holiday one, and my mother-in-law saw something. She talked to Lucky and she was like, “I saw this thing. Don’t be alarmed, but maybe you should look at it and talk to Nara about it.” So then Lucky came into the room. I was nursing Fawnie and he said, “Don’t freak out, honey.” Not that I usually freak out, but he was like, “Just look at it and see how you feel. Should I take her to the doctor?” I was like, “What happened? Did she get hurt? What’s going on?” And then he was like, “No, I don’t think so. My mom just saw this.” So then he was like — I was just like, “Let’s just be safe and take her to the ER.”

Then we took her to the ER. The ER was like, “We don’t really know what to make of this, just tell us if it gets worse.” And I was like, okay, well maybe it’s just a kid thing, I don’t know. So then later that week I took Fawnie to the pediatrician for the first time. So I rang him and I was like, “This is what’s going on with Whimsy, do you think I can bring her to just have a look?” So we walk in there and he does her first. He looks at her, and then I just remember him going quiet. He went quiet and very calm and collected. And in that moment, my heart just dropped, and there was this weird gut feeling of being like, oh, she has cancer. I know she has.

Because my mom, before that, she’d gone through a year of chemo treatments for breast cancer, and it was gruesome, and it was so hard to watch her go through that. And there was always this lingering fear of this sickness that would come. So then I was like, oh, she has cancer. But I didn’t want to say it to Lucky. I did hint at it and he was like, “No, honey, you can’t think like that.”

So then he didn’t even — I don’t even think he looked at Fawnie really. He was like, “You guys need to take her to the closest hospital.” So the closest hospital was the Yale New Haven Children’s Hospital. So I drove back home with Fawnie because our other kids were at home, and he took Whimsy. And long story short, there were a bunch of biopsies, ultrasounds, scans, whatever. And then a week after that initial visit, we got a phone call.

I just remember standing in the living room and the phone rang, and it was this weird gut feeling. I’m like, oh, it’s the hospital, they’re gonna tell us she has cancer. I looked at Lucky and I’m like, “This is it, let’s just brace ourselves.” And then you could just tell by the voice, and they were like, “We’re so sorry, she has cancer. You guys need to start treatment immediately.”

And then they took her in, then she started treatment. They tested her further, did a few more scans, and they were like, “It’s spread in her body. This is the treatment plan. This is what she has to do.” And it was really hard.

So Lucky did the majority of the — because you would go home and then she would go to the hospital for five days and stay there from Monday to Friday every sixteen-ish days depending on what her blood count was. And Lucky did those overnight stays because I had Fawnie at home that I was nursing and I couldn’t be away from her. So I would go during the day and then obviously try to also work and do that. So it was like playing Tetris almost. And then we had our other kids, so it was really, really hard and it was a really tough experience.

And every day you would wake up and not quite know what the day is gonna bring, what the doctors are gonna say, is the treatment working, is it not — all these different things. It was really hard.

Navigating the Crisis as a Couple

ALEX COOPER: Nara, I am so sorry even just hearing you. No parent should ever have to experience this. No child should ever have to experience this. I can’t imagine the emotional toll also of trying to be present for multiple children while also wanting to be present for the one child that is sick and going through it. It also sounds like such a blessing to have such an incredible partner.

NARA SMITH: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Who was able to take this on while you were taking this on over here. I’m curious, in that darkest moment where you get that phone call — as a couple, how did you —

NARA SMITH: I think it was a lot of being on autopilot because I think when I’m faced with a crisis, whatever that crisis may be, I’m like, okay, there’s no time for emotions, there’s no time for anything. It’s like zoning in and doing it. So I think at first we didn’t process it, but we were both on autopilot making sure that she was all right, making sure our other kids were all right, and it didn’t really hit us yet. So we were like, okay, let’s do it.

And we communicated a lot. I was checking in with him, like, “How are you doing? What are we doing?” He was checking in with me. Because you always hear when couples go through a really hard time, it either makes or breaks you. And a lot of the times I feel like I’ve heard about couples kind of drifting away, but I feel like it’s brought Lucky and me even closer together because we really had to rally for Whimsy.

So yeah, that was just an insane experience. And then the more time went on, her hair started falling out and you could physically see it. She would get really nauseous and all the things that come with someone going through chemo treatment. And I think that’s when it kind of hit both of us. And then we started crumbling a little bit, to where when I had a hard day with it, he picked me up. When he had a hard day, I picked him up and we were like, let’s just keep going.

It felt like — you know that game where you’re tied to someone else and you have to make it to the finish line together? That’s what it felt like. And every time I was like, “I don’t think I can go any further,” he was like, “Yes you can.” And then vice versa. So I think it required a lot out of both of us, but we made it.

ALEX COOPER: How did you explain just the changes that were happening to your other children?

Whimsy’s Journey and the Power of Community

NARA SMITH: I think they were at an age where they could kind of get it but kind of not. But there was this book. I don’t remember the name of the book, but it was this book about cancer that a mom wrote after her kid went through— I think it was brain cancer— to make sense of this situation. So we read this book, I think it was Something and the Hair Fairy or something, to where it talked about this cancer. It was described as like a gummy ball in your body or something like that, and that you would lose your hair, and then the hair fairy would come and you should just put your hair somewhere and it’s gonna take the hair. And it was a very beautiful kid story, and all my 5-year-old took away from that was like, I want the hair fairy to come. So I was like, I don’t think it works like that, but sure.

And then as time went on, they would have these random questions to where I also realized like maybe it is on their minds, to where Slim would ask me, “Can I get cancer?” I’m like, no, it’s not contagious. It’s like trying to explain it, but they would ask these questions in the most random situations to where I knew that I just had to be extra present with them and extra loving and kind of just explain things a little bit better for them.

ALEX COOPER: What kept you hopeful in some of your darkest moments?

NARA SMITH: Knowing that I wasn’t alone, like the community, and knowing that there are parents out there that are and have gone through similar experiences that have made it out the other end and were fine, in whatever way you want to interpret that. But also just the fact that I can’t give up hope. If I give up hope, Whimsy will, and I need to show up for my daughter, and I need to make sure she’s all right, and she will be all right. I’m gonna make sure of that. And if it’s not this treatment, it will be the next treatment. There was never the thought of giving up emotionally or physically to me.

ALEX COOPER: Do you have any— if a parent is listening right now who happens to be going through something similar, do you have any advice that you would want to share?

NARA SMITH: I just want people to talk about their emotions with anyone that they feel comfortable with. I think it can feel like a very, very isolating experience that you don’t really think anyone else would understand or go through or whatever. But the more community you seek, the more you’ll find people showing up for you in ways that you never thought they will.

Like, even by sharing that, I’ve had so many people reach out and offer support, even though now we’re in remission. I waited until we were because I couldn’t stomach going through everything at the same time. But having people reach out or sharing their own stories or even sharing how other people showed up for them— I think community is so important and I want you to go seek that. Because there’s a huge community out there that’s so beautiful.

ALEX COOPER: How do you think this experience has changed your family’s day-to-day life now?

NARA SMITH: I think it’s made me really be present and grateful for every moment that we have. It’s made me really just see even the small mundane things as something that I enjoy doing and I wanna find the beauty in and make extra special. Like even if it’s setting a table a little bit more elaborate than I wanted to, or making them their favorite meal. Because why can’t we have mac and cheese tonight? I’ll make mac and cheese. So I think it really made me cherish those small moments that before I was very nonchalant about.

Lucky as a Partner and Father

ALEX COOPER: In what ways do you think this experience allowed you to see Lucky in a different light?

NARA SMITH: I’ve never thought about that question in that way, but I think seeing how tender he is and so loving and supportive and optimistic. There was not a single moment where he didn’t show up for Whimsy, for me, for the kids, for everybody as a strong partner and father. And sure, did he have really hard moments that we worked through together? Absolutely. But it just showed me just how beautiful this family is that we’ve built together and how each and every person has a part that’s so integral for all of it to work properly.

ALEX COOPER: I remember you had said that you guys had gone to couples therapy before. How did the foundation that you guys have built really prove to be a solid foundation during this time?

NARA SMITH: This is something that no one thinks is gonna happen, right? So when we went to couples therapy, I was like, let’s just do it to really build a strong foundation. I wanted to make sure that we have the tools because he grew up in a different way than I did and we both bring baggage that maybe we’re aware of or maybe we’re unaware of. And therapy gets a bad rap. Couples therapy gets a really bad rap. It’s like, “Oh, you’re gonna get divorced. That’s why you’re going to therapy.”

ALEX COOPER: Right. Like, what’s wrong with you guys?

NARA SMITH: Sometimes nothing’s wrong, and you just want to have the tools to have the best life. Like, I wanna have the best life in every aspect of my life. And that, to me, comes with work, sometimes harder, sometimes easier, but it’s work nevertheless.

So we kind of learned the tools— I think one thing that was really big for us is communication. We kind of talked at each other a lot but never with each other. So I think that came in really handy with this experience, to where even though I might have felt whatever I felt, I created the space for him to feel the way he felt and for him to communicate that with me and for us to work through that together and really be heard by each other.

ALEX COOPER: Oh my God, I can’t even imagine how integral that was to the success essentially of you being able to just get through this every day. Because like you said, I agree. I think you hear so many stories understandably of people losing their way with their partner because grief and trauma— you are trying to regulate and you’re trying to be there for your child who you’re putting first. And so it kind of becomes an afterthought sometimes about your partner. It kind of has to be.

And so I think to know that you guys were able to really try to tap into that is so beautiful. And I’m just also thinking it’s probably so beautiful for your other children to try to—

NARA SMITH: He’s my best friend. And I think that’s also what really helped. Like, he’s not just my romantic partner. He truly is my best friend, and I don’t know what I would do without him. So our friendship and our understanding of each other really helped in every aspect.

And our kids too. Sure, do we fight sometimes or bicker or argue? Absolutely. Our relationship is not perfect. I don’t think anyone’s relationship with anyone is perfect, but I think our kids have seen us really rally and they’ve seen us maybe have an argument. I think it’s healthy sometimes for them to see that, but then also see the resolution of it and how we find our way back to common ground. I think all of that was really important for them to see, and I think it’s just been a really humbling experience and hard.

ALEX COOPER: You have been through— how old are you? 24. Yeah, you have been through so much life.

NARA SMITH: I have.

The Cookbook: Homemade

ALEX COOPER: And you are so impressive. Like, obviously you’re now coming out with this cookbook. Yes, Homemade. It comes out October 13th. And it’s so interesting because we’ve watched you on TikTok, we’ve watched you making these concoctions, but to now put it into a book— and I love it because it’s not just recipes, you’re actually kind of telling the story of like how you got to where you are today. Why did you feel like now was the right moment to do something like this?

NARA SMITH: When I started with the whole TikTok thing and my recipes and videos gained traction, a lot of the comments were, “We need a recipe book, where are the recipes?” So I started with my Substack and then just realized that I love a good book, I really do. I’d also never owned a cookbook, which is weird. I’d never owned a cookbook. And then writing this, my publisher was like, “So have you ever read a cookbook?” I’m like, no. She’s like, “You need to go get some.”

But through this whole process, I just realized I want all of my recipes in a book that can live on someone’s counter and be kind of timeless. I want it to be on your counter for a very long time.

ALEX COOPER: Hold up the book, I want to see it. Give a little—

NARA SMITH: It’s a whole thing.

ALEX COOPER: Promo that thing, girl.

NARA SMITH: No, it’s so cute. Even the back— it’s a labor of love.

ALEX COOPER: Something I also need you to talk about is there is someone that is very recurring in this book that you often bring up— your grandmother.

NARA SMITH: Oh, I’m like, who are we talking about?

ALEX COOPER: Your grandmother. Yes. What is one of your earliest memories with her in the kitchen? Because I know that she inspired a lot of your love for cooking.

A Grandmother’s Influence

NARA SMITH: Her and I were really, really close. She was the one that taught me how to play the piano, how to read. She was very much involved. And I just remember there were a few things that she would make. One of them was oatmeal, like this cinnamon-rich oatmeal. I’ve never been able to recreate it, but it was phenomenal. And that was one of my first memories with her in the kitchen, to where she would wrap my hands around the spoon, tell me how to stir it, plate it up, sprinkle it with more cinnamon.

And she was just this warm— and then we’d sit on this banquette in her kitchen and behind us it was just like a wall of black and white cat pictures.

ALEX COOPER: That’s such a grandma thing.

NARA SMITH: A wall full of cat pictures. I’m like, this is crazy. But yeah, that was one of my first memories, and she’s always been like an inspiration. Even like, I got psychic readings once by this religious medium. It was my grandma that would pop up in all these things, and she was like, “Your grandma’s wanting you to know this. Your grandma’s really proud. Your grandma’s looking over you. I see her standing at the piano. What does this mean?” And I’m like, crazy.

ALEX COOPER: So you did see her.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, that’s—

ALEX COOPER: I was thinking about it too, because even you saying, “Oh my God, I still haven’t been able to recreate her oatmeal”— by you putting finally your recipes in writing, I feel like you’re right. So many people for so long have been like, Nara, where’s the recipe?

NARA SMITH: And I’m like, I’ve been— I can’t tell you, but I’m working on it, I promise.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, what is the first recipe you knew had to be in the book?

NARA SMITH: Ooh, that’s really hard because we were going through lists of recipes for so long. But I knew that my kookier recipes had to be in it. Like, I know you want to know how to make an Oreo. Let me give it to you, right? Cheez-Its. You don’t have to buy that anymore. Let’s just make it. So those recipes are in there. But then I also cook a lot of normal meals. Like, I need to feed my family. I need to feed myself. So here are some recipes that I actually genuinely cook on and offline for my family.

ALEX COOPER: Right, they’re a little less—

NARA SMITH: Like, I know sometimes you just have an hour to get dinner on the table. Let me tell you how to do that.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so you were giving us range.

NARA SMITH: Range.

ALEX COOPER: I appreciate that. What is one recipe that took the longest to get right?

The Cookbook & Cooking Tips

NARA SMITH: There’s this one recipe in there that’s like a sourdough bread but not with a starter.

ALEX COOPER: Oh.

NARA SMITH: To where it was like, I’m not going to make you feed your starter for like— because okay, the recipe started off as was like, I’m gonna show you how to make your starter, feed it every day.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, like, what do I do? Nara, I don’t know what to do with the starter.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, so I’m like, that’s like 2 weeks of work for a loaf of bread. I’m so sorry.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so this is gonna help me have no starter?

NARA SMITH: No starter. You still kind of get that same thing. It will only take you like 5 to 6 hours. Okay, that sounds crazy still, but like, for bread, that’s not that long because it’s also hands-off work.

ALEX COOPER: I’ve heard literally people in LA like, “I have got a hookup for someone who has starter.”

NARA SMITH: No, I literally— no, Alex, you don’t understand. My friend, she lives in Utah, and she had a starter. And I was at her house with my kids, and I was like moaning to her. I’m like, I don’t— my— I had to throw my starter away. And she was like, “You can have some of mine.” Like, Willa is really doing it. And I’m like, great.

So she sent me home with a starter. I flew around airport, like, through security. I could take it, which I don’t know whether I could actually or whether the guy just knew me and he was— he’s like, “I see that starter. I see that starter. Just go, just go, just go.” I don’t know. I would travel with it and feed it like every Airbnb I was in. Feed a starter water and flour.

ALEX COOPER: I’m so stressed, Nara.

NARA SMITH: No, I need to show you. It’s really easy.

ALEX COOPER: I wanted to have fresh bread in my house.

NARA SMITH: No, I love fresh bread. But I’m like, I need to send you the bread recipe in there. I also have a sandwich bread recipe. I think the baking ones took longer. Oh, actually, Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal took so long.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so how idiot-proof is this? Very, because I’m the idiot.

NARA SMITH: But here’s the thing, I think a lot of people have this misconception that I’m this like professional— I’m a home cook, honey. I started cooking at the same time as you saw me starting to cook, like when I posted on TikTok, that’s when I started.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, that makes me feel good. So I could maybe figure something out.

NARA SMITH: Some of these might be a little technical, but with the steps you can figure it out. And then some of them are so easy to where you just throw some lentils and sweet potato in a pot and you’ll be fine. So I think it’s range.

I wanted it to feel accessible to people. I didn’t want it to feel like, “Oh, all you’re getting is from-scratch recipes.” No, I wanted it to feel like an essential book that you can get started with and feel comfortable with. And my cooking takes trial and error. Do you know how many times I’ve made things? I tried making Twizzlers the other day, horrible. Didn’t work out. Toss that. So it really is trial and error.

What to Cook and When: Nara’s Go-To Recipes

ALEX COOPER: I’m gonna throw you a scenario and you’re gonna tell me what I should make from scratch. You ready?

NARA SMITH: Yeah, tell me.

ALEX COOPER: You want to impress at a dinner party. What are you bringing?

NARA SMITH: I’m hosting, so I’m not— sorry, not bringing.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, okay. Me being like, I will never host a dinner party. I’m the girl that orders the takeout and puts it on the plate and pretends I made it. I’ve never done that, but that sounds fun. Genius. Okay, what are you making for your dinner party?

NARA SMITH: I love a good menu and I love a theme. We have to have a theme. We have to have a menu. So let’s figure out the theme and then figure out the menu after.

But what I do love— I’m a little biased— like a roast chicken. Here’s the thing. A roast chicken feels impressive if you do it right, but it’s very hands-off. It’s like one of the easiest— like, that’s the dinner I make when I’m like, “I have no idea what to make.” It’s a roast chicken because you do it, pop it in the oven, and then you do a bunch of sides. I like things that you could prep the night before and then just plate the next day.

ALEX COOPER: Done. Okay. Your kids come home from school absolutely starving. What are we making?

NARA SMITH: Bread and jam.

ALEX COOPER: Bread and jam. That’s a good answer. You’re trying to seduce your future husband.

NARA SMITH: Steak and fries with like a sexy peppercorn sauce.

ALEX COOPER: Oh yeah. Okay. You need a pick-me-up comfort meal after a really tough day.

NARA SMITH: Beef pie.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, your in-laws are unexpectedly coming over in 30 minutes. What are you making?

NARA SMITH: Something American, let me tell you that. Maybe a— no, tacos. Tacos. My dad-in-law loves his little tacos.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so I make some tacos, but so different from how you— like, are you making your own taco seasoning?

NARA SMITH: Well, what do you mean? Like mixing spices together? You just take like cumin and whatever and like put it all together. What do you do?

ALEX COOPER: Oh, I get like the taco packs from the grocery store.

NARA SMITH: Oh, that’s an option. Yeah, but taco seasoning is chill. You just have to have your spices and you throw it together.

ALEX COOPER: I never thought about it like that. When I said idiot in the kitchen— oh, so that’s fine. I could just kind of— you can just make it yourself.

NARA SMITH: Well, of course, like make your seasoning, like dry the bell pepper and like grind it and make it.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, like when you put it on the beef to make it have that little zest.

NARA SMITH: Oh, you just like— okay, you probably have a rack of spices in your kitchen, right?

ALEX COOPER: Uh-huh.

NARA SMITH: And you just throw ’em together, whatever makes sense for the cuisine you’re going for. And then I do love a good sweet and hot thing. So I make my own salsas. I also have this really good recipe in my book actually. I’m not trying to plug it, but— hit it. It’s like a roasted pork situation, pork tacos with like 2 different salsas. And you can put the pork on in the morning and put it in your slow cooker and then think about it until dinner.

ALEX COOPER: That’s what I’m gonna try to do.

NARA SMITH: And then you could either make your own tortillas if you want to, or you can just store-bought.

ALEX COOPER: Store-bought. I’m like, hey, so we’re not getting crazy, girl. If I’m making my own salsa, then I’m probably hitting up the tortillas at the grocery store.

NARA SMITH: You know what, or you do the tortillas and buy the salsa.

ALEX COOPER: Which one do you think is more impressive for me? How are you making your own?

NARA SMITH: I have so many questions. Corn flour. Is it corn flour? Masa harina? Yeah, a little bit of water.

ALEX COOPER: Wait, what do you order for takeout? Oh, is this controversial?

NARA SMITH: No, I love a good takeout. I really do. I think sometimes there’s something so beautiful about someone else cooking for me.

ALEX COOPER: How many nights a week are you cooking in your household?

NARA SMITH: I try to cook every night. Sometimes, like the other day, my chickens got eaten by a fox and I was making chicken and I was like, there’s no way. So I got takeout.

ALEX COOPER: Oh yeah, that feels— it felt a little barbaric.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn’t do that.

ALEX COOPER: Oh wow.

NARA SMITH: So it depends, but I usually order takeout that I don’t really want to make myself. So it’s Indian food, Thai food, Vietnamese food. I would never order something I could make, like a burger. Ordering a burger for takeout on Postmates, criminal activity.

ALEX COOPER: So crazy. Who would ever do that?

NARA SMITH: Sometimes it’s a necessity, right? But for me personally, I have—

ALEX COOPER: You would hate to see me come in if I pulled up my Postmates order. You’re gonna be like, “Alex.”

NARA SMITH: Yeah, I would actually be like, “Let’s just tweak this. How about we do Indian instead?” That I would much rather order.

Pregnancy Cravings & Late-Night Snacks

ALEX COOPER: Okay, last one. You’re over halfway through your pregnancy. It’s 10 PM. Asking for a friend. Suddenly you need something. You want to make something yummy. What are we making?

NARA SMITH: Like, how much time?

ALEX COOPER: You got an hour.

NARA SMITH: Oh, that changes the game.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, 30 minutes.

NARA SMITH: Okay, I don’t like this, but I know Americans love their chocolate chip cookies. I would make chocolate chip cookies and then I would make— well, I would probably have ice cream that I made in the freezer, but you, you Postmate some vanilla ice cream and then you put your ice cream sandwich together.

Hot chocolate chip cookie, but like not hot because then it will crumble, but like warm, vanilla ice cream in the middle, another chocolate chip cookie, and you press it together, get yourself an ice cream sandwich. And if you’re feeling fancy, you melt some chocolate and dip it and let it harden. You do that.

ALEX COOPER: I love you. I am so gonna do that. Oh, that’s a good one. Oh, I’m craving that right now.

NARA SMITH: And you don’t have to like spoon it or do the whole thing. It’s like an ice cream sandwich. And you can also prep those in advance and put them in your freezer so you can just pull them out and you get the perfect vanilla ice cream. Because sometimes when you buy the pre-made stuff, you’re like, “The vanilla ice cream sucks or the cookie sucks,” but you can get it the way you want to get it.

ALEX COOPER: You are blowing my mind right now. It’s like talking to an expert and I’m like this child that’s like, I’m trying to absorb. Some stuff is going over my head.

NARA SMITH: What’s your pregnancy craving? Because that’s what I want to know.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so in the beginning, obviously I was like nauseous. I wasn’t craving anything. And then I started craving In-N-Out. A classic. And so when you’re like, “Oh, ordering burgers,” I’m like, no, no, no, I’m going to In-N-Out.

NARA SMITH: Well, that’s fair. Okay, fair, fair, fair. That’s fair. We’ll take that off the list because that was my craving too.

ALEX COOPER: But I would want it weirdly in a lettuce wrap.

NARA SMITH: Same.

ALEX COOPER: And then I also wanted to get a Flying Dutchman.

NARA SMITH: You’re me.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, there’s— we’re one, Nara. That was me. So good. And then animal style fries. Did you do chilies or no?

NARA SMITH: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: Oh my God, of course. I didn’t even think about it.

NARA SMITH: We have the same order then. So good. That was me.

Pregnancy Cravings and Future Plans

ALEX COOPER: And then I started craving donuts, which was taking me down a weird path. And I was like, every morning my husband would come to my bedside and I would say, bring me a donut and a little coffee. And I was like so happy. So that was good.

NARA SMITH: I love that.

ALEX COOPER: And so I’ve gone through some weird phases. It’s kind of hit or miss sometimes. But for right now, I’m really, really liking my ice cream. So this is why it’s really hitting. No, I’m not making— look at you. Perfect. You’re gonna make homemade ice cream. I’m like, Nara, do you know what’s really good though?

NARA SMITH: If you love ice cream, it’s the Jeni’s birthday cake ice cream.

ALEX COOPER: Jeni’s, I will buy that. Salt & Straw. Oh, okay. So that’s what I’m on. But right now, I don’t know if you did this when you were pregnant, but I need a lot of different tastes kind of happening at once.

NARA SMITH: Yes. Yes. Yes.

ALEX COOPER: So my bowl, Nara, is like mint chip, then vanilla, then chocolate, then strawberry. Then I have some cookies and cream. Then I have some salted caramel. Absolutely. And I need all the tastes.

NARA SMITH: Yep, yep, yep, yep.

ALEX COOPER: And then I just lay there and I’m like— and you’re like, okay.

NARA SMITH: But I could only eat like three bites because I’d feel so full so quick. Immediately.

ALEX COOPER: I have so many questions after this. Because I’m having issues with pregnancy pillows and I’m trying to figure it out.

NARA SMITH: Yeah, so we’ll talk offline.

Building Something Lasting

ALEX COOPER: You— I wrote something down. We’re rounding out our conversation now. I feel like we’re having girl talk. We’re in front of cameras. You talked a lot about wanting to build something. What does that mean to you?

NARA SMITH: One thing that I’ve always strived for is longevity. I want the business and whatever I’m creating to grow alongside me, because it’s unrealistic for me to think that I’m just gonna be doing this for the rest of my life. I’m gonna grow and evolve. I’m only 24. I don’t know what the next 10 years have in store for me, but all I know is I wanna be working and building my business and growing.

I enjoy so many different things. Obviously I love my social presence. I love cooking. So writing the cookbook felt natural. I ended up being in a movie where I had that whole experience, and now I want to do acting. So I’m taking acting classes. I also want to build my own brand. We’ll get into that when the time comes, but I think people are really gonna love it. It’s gonna be really fun. So we’re working on that, and then just kind of figuring out TV, that space.

I feel like the world is my oyster in the most grateful and humble way I could possibly say that, because I’m so grateful to have the community that has put me in this spot to be able to really execute my vision. And I’m so grateful for it and really excited for the future.

Celebrating Multifaceted Women

ALEX COOPER: I’m so happy that I got to talk to you, because all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, just talking about the misconceptions and the labels — I think it’s just another testament to what you said earlier. Why can’t we all get more comfortable with celebrating women who are multifaceted and have drive in multiple different areas? And how about this — women who are thriving in multiple different areas of their life. And instead of that being a threat and something that we wanna ignore or downplay, let’s just celebrate it.

NARA SMITH: We should all just help each other and really just uplift each other.

ALEX COOPER: That’s all I wanna do. I’m so happy I got to meet you. I really appreciate you. I know we went through so many different topics, and I know that so many of them were extremely personal.

NARA SMITH: Thanks for making it a safe space.

ALEX COOPER: Of course. Thank you for coming on Call Her Daddy.

NARA SMITH: Thank you.

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