UNAPOLOGETIC: w/ Rabbi Elhanan Beck on Zionism (Transcript)

I don’t want the money.” Every month they do that, every month.

There are many people who refuse to go to the army and they don’t take any benefits and they don’t participate in the votes. But this is in Israel. There are hundreds of thousands. But outside Israel, people like me — most of them are against the State of Israel.

What is Amalek?

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Just coming back, because you said a few interesting things there. Tell us and tell the audience, just what is the story of Amalek?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Amalek is not really a person. It is a person. But what means it’s not really a person? Amalek is a concept. Amalek describes the people who uproot people away from God.

At that time, three and a half thousand years ago, when Jewish people gone out — when God took us out from Egypt — the whole world saw and believed in God and saw the big power of God. And everybody was afraid. In the world they know, “Oh, there is a God in the world. He runs the world.” Then at that time there comes some nation called Amalek and showed the world, “No, we don’t have to fear God. We can do whatever we want.” Since then, Amalek is the symbol — the symbol of people who uproot people from God.

In today’s day we cannot point any specific nation to say this is Amalek or this is Amalek. Amalek today is a concept, a concept of the people who uproot people away from God. Now you don’t have to come to my answer. You have the answer yourself. Who is uprooting people away from God in today’s day? Not the Palestinians, not Iran. Iran is a God-fearing people. They’re serving God. Who is uprooting God? The right people who are uprooting God is Netanyahu and the whole Zionist movement. They have uprooted today 18 million Jews — 16 of them are secular, they don’t believe in God. Whose job is that? This is the job of the Zionists in the last 140 years since they started the movement of Zionism — they have uprooted people from God. Constantly, constantly, constantly.

Netanyahu as Amalek

ASHFAAQ CARIM: So you’re saying Netanyahu is Amalek?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: I didn’t have to say it. This is the fact. Amalek means people who uproot people from God, especially the Jewish people uprooted from God. This is the job. And exactly, he is the Amalek. But I didn’t have to say it. This is just the fact. I bring out the fact on the table, but I say that with the full mouth. I have no problem to say that he is the real Amalek.

Who gives him the right to say who is Amalek and who’s not? Of course, everybody who is his enemy will say he is Amalek. I can say it for you, I can say it for everybody. You have to understand what it means, Amalek.

Now I will come to another point. 100 years ago, one of our greatest rabbis at that time — before the state of Israel, but after the Zionist movement began, yes, 40 years after the Zionist movement began — one of our greatest rabbis, his name was the Chofetz Chaim. The books of the Chofetz Chaim you have in every single synagogue throughout the world. You will not find even one synagogue without his books. He was very famous, one of the biggest rabbis. He said very clearly that the Zionists are Amalek in today’s day.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: And he said this when?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: 100 years ago, 100 years ago, before the creation still of the state. Then Zionism was a movement — working with money, working hard to bring people to Israel to become a majority there, bringing people from Russia, from Poland, from Hungary, from Ukraine, from all these countries to become a majority at that time in the Holy Land.

He said at that time that they are Amalek. His name was the Chofetz Chaim. The reference for that is in the book of Ikvisa D’Meshicha — it’s called one of his greatest followers. His name was like my name, Rabbi Elhanan Wasserman. He died in the Holocaust, unfortunately. He was killed in the Holocaust. And he wrote in his book the words of his Rabbi. The Chofetz Chaim said that the Zionists are the real Amalek in today’s day.

So firstly, who is Netanyahu to say who is Amalek? Everybody can ask, who gives him the right to say that? And secondly, if we understand what Amalek means, then we understand ourselves who is Amalek.

The Project of Greater Israel

ASHFAAQ CARIM: That’s all very interesting. You’ve been talking about this, and another thing that’s also invoked a lot by Netanyahu and other people, especially Smotrich and Ben Gvir, is the idea of Greater Israel. Now many people who see Israel creating chaos in the region now — with the Iran war, attacking Syria, attacking Lebanon — believe there’s a project of Greater Israel. What’s your thoughts on the project of Greater Israel?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Look, really I’m not an expert in politics, I’m an expert in our religion. And you’re asking me now a political question. I can tell you just what I think, as I have to study the ideas of Zionism — know your enemy, how to fight against them. So I have to study the books of Herzl, Theodor Herzl, and what were his achievements and what they want. So I can just tell you from this side.

However, as I understand, the achievement of the goal of Zionists is to get a safe Israel. Of course they want the biggest borders, from the river to the sea. Yes, they want all the Muslims out of that, all the Palestinians out — out completely. The whole West Bank. They want to take the whole Gaza, everything. They want to take the whole of Israel with the Golan Heights, with everything. They want to be 100% safe. No difference what the price of that is. If the price of that is killing 100 million people, they will do that.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: 100 million people, everything.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: What a price is to wipe out Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon — wipe them completely out — if they need that for their security, they will do that. They have no problem with that. They haven’t got even normal human feelings. They see only themselves, selfish for themselves, what they want. And this is what they want.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Sorry to interrupt. Is the idea to conquer all these lands, or do you think the idea is just to create so much chaos in those lands that they can control as much of Israel and maybe beyond Israel as they like?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: It’s not only chaos. What they like — could be they want 500 miles around Israel to be empty, something like that, to make sure that nobody can hit them. They want to make weak all the countries around them. But I don’t think they want to become leaders of the whole world. They want their own country, but a safe country. There is no price that is too big for them.

The Threat of Nuclear War

ASHFAAQ CARIM: So when you say there’s no price — like right now there’s a war going on and Iran is being bombed a lot, and Iran is a strong nation in terms of the army etc. So do you think if this war continues — I mean, when you say they’ll kill 100 million people, the implication is they could drop a nuclear bomb on Iran if they wanted to. Do you think if it comes to that, they would?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: I think yes. 100%.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: 100%, yes. They wouldn’t think twice?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: If they feel they will have to do that, in my eyes, yes.

The Wider Regional Impact

ASHFAAQ CARIM: And in terms of — another thing that’s happening right now — Iran is retaliating by hitting American bases and hitting strategic assets in the Gulf countries, in Qatar and the UAE and Saudi Arabia and Oman and Bahrain etc. So what you’re saying is there’s no care for the Zionists that if these countries get hit, if their economies get depleted — if anything, you’d probably be — they’d probably be quite happy with the fact that these countries are now fighting with each other.

The Nature of Zionism and Humanity

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: They haven’t, they don’t think, they don’t think even about other people. It’s not like England, but our government. I didn’t come to say if he’s right or not right. I’m not in the political world. Yes, but they are caring for other people. If he go out to a war with France, he will care about the civilians. They don’t care nothing. They don’t think nothing. They don’t think nothing. They think only about themselves in no price. It’s too high for them. No price is too high for them. It’s not like America, it’s not like the UK. It’s not like all the.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Are you saying this because of what you’ve seen them do in Gaza and what they’re doing in Lebanon? Or would you have said this 10 years ago as well?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: I would say that also 10 years ago. This is really what our rabbi said, that Jewish people, if they’ve gone away from God, they are worse, more than animals.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Your rabbi said this?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes. Yeah. This is the Talmud. Very clearly, very clearly.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: So this is a famous rabbi.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: This is what the Talmud says.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Oh, the Talmud says it itself.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Accepting that Jewish people, if they are close to God, they are holy people, they are chosen people, they’re serving God and they are holy people. But if they got away from God, there are wars and animals that you can see that with your own eyes.

You told me about the war in Gaza. The war in Gaza was not the first war. This is already 77 years full of wars. And we see that every time. I myself was born in Jerusalem. My mother told me what she saw in 1948. I didn’t want to say that. I cannot say what she saw. How their behavior was against the Palestinians. Crazy. Crazy. And what happened to the Sabra and Shatila? You know, all this thing, what they’re doing already for — not centuries, I mean, for 77 years.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: A few years before that also in Palestine.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes, yes, yes. What they’re doing. But my mother remembers that she saw that with her own eyes. My father told me what he saw. My father passed away already. He was about 20 years old in 1948. And he saw everything. He told me everything. What he saw with his own eyes. The Zionist is not like the Western countries. They’re thinking about civilians. No, they don’t think about nobody. They are selfish completely. They’re thinking only about themselves.

Celebrating Death: The Zionist Mindset

ASHFAAQ CARIM: How does that work? I mean, the thing is, how is it that — what you’re saying is that the Zionists — and we’ve seen, for example, when they bomb Gaza, they have these parties where they go and they watch the bombing. We see now when they are bombing Iran and they’re bombing Lebanon, you see people — if you see Israeli media and you see Israeli YouTubers, you see a lot of celebratory language. They’re celebrating the fact that people are dying and being bombed.

But you’re saying that this is a thing which is — like, if the Zionist is a lot more deadly in terms of the intention — you’re saying this is worse than, like, Western imperialists or other imperialists, because there’s lots of imperialism in the world. Why? How does that work?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Look, a Jewish person — God has created the Jewish people to be connected to him, to be believers in him. And if they leave it away, they lost the faith in God. They lost the humanity. They lost completely the humanity, that you can see with your own eyes.

You’re asking me why it is. I can understand that this is more deeply to explain it. But you can see the facts. You can see the fact that England going on a war, they’re caring about all the civilians. And if they hit some civilian sometimes, they apologize. Something happened — they have no problem. But these people, they’re celebrating killing children in Gaza. They’re celebrating. They say they are creatures, we may kill them. They are animals, they are nothing. We may kill all of them. They don’t care about them at all, completely.

You can see that with your own eyes. Unfortunately. People who have lost their belief in God — they lost everything. They lost their humanity completely.

The End of Zionism: A Religious Perspective

ASHFAAQ CARIM: How do you feel? I mean, these people are acting in your religion. They’re acting in the name of your religion. You obviously are a devout Jew. You love Judaism. You are hoping that Judaism thrives in the world, that your children and grandchildren and many generations can continue to practice Judaism. When you see so many people who say they are Jews behave in this way, how do you feel? What are your concerns about the future?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Give a look again. I’m coming from my religious point of view. We believe that the bad side will have the end. This is again not my words. It’s written in the Torah, and the reference of that is in Numbers 14:41. It really was a similar situation when God took out the Jewish people from Egypt and then commanded them to stay in the desert for 40 years.

I don’t know if you’ve learned about it, but most of the people didn’t agree. They said, “No, we want to go up to the Holy Land even by force.” And Prophet Moses told them, “No, stay in the desert for 40 years. God commanded you to stay.” Only after that could they go to the Holy Land. But these people didn’t agree. They went up, and then Prophet Moses told them, “Why do you rebel against God? You will not succeed.” In the end, that’s what happened. They tried to go up and all of them were killed. A rebellion against God cannot succeed.

As long as the state of Israel is a rebellion against the Almighty — you commanded us to stay in exile and not to rebel against him — what the Zionists are doing is a rebellion against God. They will not succeed.

Now, if you look through today’s political eyes, they are strong. They are very strong, and all the strong countries support them. With a political view, you might see that they will succeed for the next thousand years. But again, I’m coming from the religious point of view. From the religious point of view, I am 100% certain that they will come to an end. And this is not my words first — it is the words of the Torah. And then again, many rabbis and our great sages said that already before the creation of the state of Israel. Like I mentioned before, the Chofetz Chaim — he said also that even if they agree to create a state, this is only until a certain amount of time, and then it will come to an end.

I’m 100% sure that the end will come. We hope and pray for a peaceful end. Nobody looks for bloodshed. However, the day will come to an end. 100%.

Now, of course, when I see the uprooting of so many people away from God — 16 million out of 18 million are non-believers today by the influence of Zionists — of course this makes very bad feelings. And when you don’t believe in the Jewish principles, it makes you feel lost. We are finished. Another generation, two, three generations, we are finished. But we know that this will not be the case. They will come to an end and we will succeed at the end.

Who Counts as a Believer?

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Okay, so you call — like the majority of — I’m guessing that worldwide, you said 16 million out of 18 million are non-believers. And the reason you say that is because they don’t, according to you, believe in those 13 principles of Judaism. But I mean, they would see themselves as Jews though, right? Yeah, but you wouldn’t see them as Jews — clarifying it.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yeah, the same like a secular Muslim will see themselves as a Muslim.

Theological Misinterpretations: The Temple, the Red Cow, and the Messiah

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Okay, I understand that point. So I mean, we’ve discussed Amalek and we’ve discussed the Promised Land in a way, when we discuss Zionism and Judaism. Can you tell me more about some of the other theological arguments that people inside of Israel — in your view — would be wrongly used?

Like, for example, taking and building the temple. Again, there’s discussions about — for a while now, there’s been a few movements within Israel that are trying to desecrate or destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque because they want to build the temple. There’s another thing about the red cow. There’s the idea of the Messiah that you spoke about. Tell me from your perspective — what’s their wrong interpretation of it, and what should be the correct interpretation of these things?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: I will split it in a few. Yes, because I didn’t want to make a long thing. Firstly, we will speak about the Messiah because this is serious. The other one is just fantasies — it’s not reality. I will come back to that.

But the Messiah — this is a reality. We Jewish people, we believe in a Messiah. We believe that the Messiah will come. But don’t make a mistake. The Messiah will not be an oppressor. He will not kill innocent men, women, and children just to rebel over land. The purpose of the Messiah will be to bring back all the people of the world to serve the same God. In the time of the Messiah, there will be unity from the whole world. The Messiah will not come with physical power at all.

In our scriptures, the Messiah is described as “ani v’rochev al chamor” — that means a poor man coming on a white donkey. We don’t know what it means today, as there are no donkeys. Like many prophecies, we will only understand it when it becomes a reality. However, the Messiah is not described as a strong person saying, “I come, I’m the king, I will kill everybody, everybody is my slave.” A poor man coming on a white donkey — that’s all.

The Messiah will not come with physical power. He will come with spiritual power in the heart of all the people. At that time, I — with the Palestinians — not the Jewish people against the Palestinian people — will not be on two sides of the fence. We will be on the same side of the fence. All of us together will go up and serve the same God in harmony and peace.

The Holy Land is a holy place. It’s a holy place above all over the earth. And the Holy Land will be the main place where people will come to be closer to God. Even people who believe from all over the world will come up there to serve God, to be closer to God in the Holy Land. But it will not be only us. It will be us with the Palestinians, with all the people. This is our belief in the Messiah. The Messiah will not come and kill innocent people for nothing.

The Settlers’ Distorted View of the Messiah

ASHFAAQ CARIM: What’s the — in your view, what do you think is the idea of the Messiah in the minds of the settlers? For example, people like Daniel Awais or people like Ben Gvir or Smotrich. I mean, I’m sure you haven’t spoken to them about what they think, but in your view, what can you imagine their view on the Messiah is?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: You have to split it. Netanyahu is an unbeliever. He doesn’t believe in the Messiah at all.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Hence I left him out.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: He’s just using that. But the other people — the settlers and the other people who are believers — they are completely confused, completely confused with the religion. They’re taking many things out of context and putting them in the wrong place.

Like, let’s say about the settlers. Yes, the settlers say they are religious, but they serve the Zionism. The goal of Zionism is to uproot people from God, to take away people from God. So how do you put it together? You are a believer or not? You want all the people to become believers, or you want all the people to become unbelievers? You are a believer — what do you want exactly? How do you serve these people who are putting people away from God? They are completely confused in their minds.

They are also taking the concept of the Messiah out of its right context — in the same way that the Messiah means like he is the Messiah, or something like that. This is what they’re thinking about the Messiah. But to know what the Messiah is, is not something that you can Google on the Internet. You have to read the real holy Jewish books to understand what the concept of the Messiah is. And it’s very clear.

If you look in the books of the prophets — the 24 books — you will see very clearly the purpose of the Messiah and what he is going to do when the Messiah will come. It’s written in Psalms, chapter 97. It’s written hundreds of times in Psalms. I just give you one example. But hundreds of times — when God will reveal his kingdom on the world, the whole world will be happy,

ASHFAAQ CARIM: All —

The Red Cow and the Temple Mount

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: The nations in the world will be happy. We say in our prayers, that means the whole world, the whole, not only Jews, the whole world will come together to serve the same God in harmony and peace. Like that we have many, many verses, hundreds and thousands of verses in our prayers, in the books of the prophets. Again and again and again and again. What Zionism is doing and what the settlers are doing is completely taking out of context many things. And I will come to the other point, what you’re asking.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: It’s about the red cow. The red cow and the mosque at the Temple Mount.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: I will give you an example. This is completely fantasized, it’s not reality. Look, Netanyahu, yes, he’s a murderer, he’s very bad. Bad is not a word for him. Yes, but he’s not crazy. Unfortunately, he’s not crazy. He was much better when he was crazy, but unfortunately he’s not crazy. He will never speak about the red cow. He will never speak about building the Temple Mount because he is not crazy. The settlers are crazy people. Crazy people. They’re speaking, fantasizing about things. Why do you never hear Netanyahu speaking, ever, about the red cow? He’s not crazy, that’s all. This is not a reality, the red cow. This is again a concept, a holy concept. You cannot kill men, women and children in the hope that God will be with you. This doesn’t go together. God said don’t kill. If you do something like that, God forbid, then God is not with you. If they want, in our belief, Temple Mount — yes. Let’s come to this point. Many people are asking.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: I mean, sorry, just before you get to the Temple Mount. In the Orthodox, in the pure interpretation of the red cow, what’s the red cow? Not in this crazy settler interpretation where they’re trying to kill people and hope the red cow comes in. In your understanding of the red cow, what’s the red cow?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: The red cow is just — in those times, when you look in the Torah, you can see that there are many situations where people become impure. And how do you get back pure? Now I will try to explain you. For example, we had a temple to go in. In the temple, you have to be pure. If you are impure, like if you touch a dead person, you become impure. How do you get back pure? We call that “tuha.” Tuha is pure. Tuma means impure. Now how do you come back? Usually there is something called a mikveh. I know the Muslims also have a mikveh. Mikveh means a water, a small pool of water. You go in and you get back pure. But there are some impure things that require the red cow. The red cow means that you have to take a cow that is completely red. But today you don’t see them. This was like a miracle. There were only nine red cows since God gave the Torah at Mount Sinai. The tenth will be when the Messiah will come. Because today we are anyway impure. We are in exile. So we haven’t got the red cow and we haven’t got the whole procedure of the red cow. In the red cow, we slaughter it and then we burn it and we put it in the water and we —

ASHFAAQ CARIM: The blood in the water?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Not the blood, we burn the cow.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: The ashes. The ashes, okay.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes, the ash. After slaughtering, we put it to ash and the ash we put in water. In this water, under some conditions, you put it on impure people and they get pure. We don’t understand it — this is a command of God, one of the commands we don’t understand. There are many commandments we understand, like don’t kill, don’t steal. We understand those. But there are many commandments we don’t understand why it is the way it is. That’s what’s written in the Torah. Everybody can see that the Torah is open. This is the concept of the red cow.

Now, after we went away, we went out of the Holy Land, we are anyway impure. So the red cow goes out of use. We don’t need it anymore. The next time we will need it, the Messiah will come. Then we will have the red cow.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Okay, so now the Temple Mount.

The Temple Mount and the Coming of the Messiah

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Now I will come to the Temple Mount, but I come from a different angle. Many people ask me if you believe in a temple, where it’s going to be built and what I believe. Again, the same thing I say about Messiah. To understand the concept of the Temple Mount, it’s not something you Google on the Internet. You have to look in the books of the prophets, learn about it to understand what it is. In our scriptures it is written that the temple, the third temple, will come down from heaven — a temple of fire. And we will serve God in this temple. Now we can understand that? No, we cannot go into fire. We don’t know how, in what it will be, how it will be. This is not something we can build with our hands. This is something we believe in. Wait and see. The Messiah will come. It will be a much more spiritual world. In this, many spiritual things will happen that we cannot understand in today’s day.

However, this is the Jewish belief in the temple. How it will be built, who will build it, what’s going to happen — like we don’t understand how it can be that we will serve God in a temple of fire. The same thing, we don’t understand exactly what will happen. It’s written in our scriptures. God will build the temple with fire. We don’t understand what it is. Let’s wait and let’s see. And that’s all. But one thing we know 100% — that at that time there will be peace on the whole world.

I will have to touch another point here, a very important point. People ask me many times about the Temple Mount, about Messiah. And I told them, in our scriptures, the Messiah we are waiting for is the Messiah who will make peace on the whole world. I will give you a nice story about what happened with one of our greatest rabbis. I mentioned him before — Maimonides. Maimonides was about 900 years ago. He was the doctor, the private doctor of the Sultan. I don’t remember the name of the Sultan. One of the Sultans.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Where? In which part of Egypt?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: In Egypt.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: In Egypt. Okay.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes. And he was the personal doctor. One time the Sultan asked him, “Look, you are my private doctor. My life, the life of my family is in your hands. But you are not loyal to me. How can you do that?” He said, “Where do you see I’m not loyal?” He said, “Because you believe in Messiah. If the Messiah will come, you believe he will be the king. I’m the king.” Maimonides answered, “Look, the Messiah will come. If you will not be the first one to take your crown and put it on his head, he is not the right Messiah. Because the Messiah will come and everybody will agree to him — me and you together. Messiah will bring it spiritually in our hearts to see and to serve the same God in harmony and peace. This is what Messiah will stand for here on the world — to bring us a spiritual world. This is the job of Messiah. And if you will not be the first one to give him the crown, this is not the right Messiah. This is the false Messiah.”

The same thing is what the Zionists mention — Messiah, Messiah, something like that. I want to first see that everybody agrees with him. Unfortunately not. Thanks to God that 90% of the world are not agreeing with him. So he’s not a Messiah at all.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: But do you think some people see him as a Messiah — in some sense as an actual Messiah, or just as a hero or champion? Or do they actually call him the Messiah?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: They give names. They give the name Amalek to whoever they want. They give the name Messiah to whoever they want. The job of Messiah is to bring people close to God. This is the job of Messiah. The whole job — what he will do on this world is to bring people together to serve God. What is the job of the opposite? To take away people from God. To kill people, to make hatred between people, not to unite people. Exactly the opposite of what Messiah does. But these people are crazy, the settlers are crazy, and they’re giving names. Everybody can give names. And if you have the power for that, okay, have the power. But it doesn’t make wrong into right because you have the power to do that.

Religion Is Not the Problem — Occupation Is

So I come back to this point, what people are asking. “Okay, I understand everything you say about Messiah, about the Temple Mount, fine. However, you believe the Messiah will come, then the whole world will serve God. In which way? The Jews believe in the Jewish way. The Muslims believe also in the Messiah. They believe it will be the Muslim way. The Christians believe it will be the Christian way. So again, you have something to argue about, to kill each other over?”

My answer to that is — the religion was never the problem. The problem is forcing other people, occupying other people, forcing them to think and to do what you want. This is the problem. But the religion itself has no problem. I give you the example. You are a Muslim. Can you sit down in a coffee shop, have a cup of tea with a Christian friend?

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Me and you are sitting here, having a good time, having a cup of tea, sharing the belief. You explain what you believe in Messiah. He explains what he believes. You don’t hate each other, you are good friends. Let’s wait and see. That’s all.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: There’s not the religion itself — it’s not a reason to hate each other. The problem starts only with the occupation, with forcing other people. And even forcing other people on religion, like the Spanish Inquisition — they forced the religion on other people. This creates hatred, this creates killing, this creates all the problems. But not the religion itself. The Christian religion, the Muslim religion, the Jewish religion — they can live together in peace. They have no problem, as best friends. Like the Sultan in Egypt — his doctor, his private doctor, was one of the most famous Jewish rabbis. Maimonides was his private doctor. Because the religion itself is not a problem. The problem is to force it upon other people.

So I come back to the point. We have our belief in Messiah. You have your belief in Messiah. The Christians have their belief in Messiah. There’s no problem. We can live together. Just wait and see. That’s all I believe. When Messiah will come, everybody will recognize what is right in the world. Let’s wait and see. When God will come down, everybody will see God. Everybody will recognize Him. And everybody, of course, will follow Him.

Resisting Zionism as a Religious Duty

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Okay. You’ve obviously been attending most of the demonstrations against the bombing of Gaza and the genocide of Gaza and now the bombing of Iran for the last two years or so. You wear Palestinian garbs. Obviously, just based on what you’re saying, you’ve mentioned that in your view the Zionists are almost like Amalek. So you’ve obviously dedicated a big part of your religious life to trying to purify, I would say, Judaism by resisting Zionism and by resisting these people who have usurped your religion. Do you see that as the most important religious duty you have in today’s day?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes. Give a look — if somebody came into the Muslim people and succeeded to uproot so many Muslims from the religion, of course this is one of the most important things for a Muslim person — to put things on the right place for themselves, for their children and grandchildren, and for the world, to give the right image of Islam to the world. The same thing is about Judaism. If somebody comes in the name of Jewish people and they’re killing other people and doing so many murderous acts in my name — when I’m walking in the street and I hear behind me somebody say “Hitler, Hitler” — I know they watched yesterday a film of Gaza. They’re doing that in my name. Yes, of course. This is our most important duty to come out and show what is real Judaism. This is important for us ourselves, for our children, for the next generation, and for the world.

Is This Unprecedented in Jewish History?

ASHFAAQ CARIM: We’ve seen all the destruction in Gaza and in Lebanon and in Iran and everywhere else, which is now being portrayed by a state which says it’s a new Jewish state. In your understanding of history, of Jewish history, are there other stories of people who claim to be Jews, or who are Jews, behaving as badly as this?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Just look in the history, you don’t see that at all.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: So this is unique.

Jews and Muslims: A History of Coexistence

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Jewish, of course, Jewish people was all the times believers in God, loyal citizens to all the countries where they lived. And it was every time loyal. You can’t see in the whole 2,000 years since we are in exile, even one rebellion of Jewish people like you have one. But it didn’t was by force. It was Shabze Zvi. I don’t know if you heard about it, build up a messianic movement, a false messianic movement, but it didn’t was by force. It was only a not too long, a few years till the Sultan of Turkey just finished with the whole thing. But you don’t see it in the whole long of 2,000 years of the Jewish exile as we exile history. You don’t see even nothing close to them.

All the time you sleep a peaceful citizen in all the countries. Because Jews were believers in God and they believe that God sent us in exile. We are not try even to go out by force. We are in the hands of God. God put us in the corner, we stay in the corner. We are not try to come out of the corner by force.

Accusations of Anti-Semitism

ASHFAAQ CARIM: So I mean there’s many people listening to this conversation and obviously you are speaking as a Jewish person, as a rabbi, but there’s people who listen to this and say we are based on what we’re saying. We are probably making Israelis or people who say they are Jewish but don’t but support Israel. We’re making it unsafe. And they’ll probably accuse you of being a self-hating Jew. They’ll accuse me of being an anti-Semite. They’re accusing many people now of being anti-Semites based on this. Anyone who now is pro-peace and wants to ensure that children in Gaza aren’t being killed, they’re calling them anti-Semites. What’s your response to that?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Give a look. It didn’t come in even any anti-Semitic. The Muslims were never anti-Semitic and they are still not today anti-Semitic. Everybody who knows a bit of history knows that Jews and Muslims have a golden life. For centuries we live together and for the truth is to say that we lived in the Muslim countries much better than in the rest of the world. And this is open history. Everybody can see that.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: I mean I agree with you, but there has been, there’s been some instances where some Muslims are anti-Semitic. I mean, but on the whole I agree with you.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m sorry, I’m sorry. Just read the history. You are a bit influenced on Zionist.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: No, I know. I just have some Muslim friends who are quite anti-Semitic. I mean this is why. I know, but I agree with you on the whole.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: I will explain this Muslim friends what you have. Yes, bring them together with me.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: No, no, they will love you.

Living Together: Jews and Palestinians

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes, 100. Because they are not hating Jews. They are hating occupiers. They are hating the genocide. This is exactly what they’re hating. They have nothing against Jews at all.

Look, I’m already, I came from Jerusalem. Yes. I’m already seven generations there in the Holy Land. We gone out, we don’t want to leave under the Israeli government. We gone out in 1970, my whole family gone out. It’s not only my family. Since 1948, tens of thousands of Jewish families has gone out of Israel. Even today, my area, Stamford Hill, there are about 100, 150 families. They came out only the last 10 years. They didn’t want to live there.

But my mother told me very much that she remembers the good life between Jews and Palestinians. They live together. They used to babysit each other’s children. She remembers that Palestinian neighbors bring over the children to her parents to watch for them when they’re going out on occasion. The same thing. The Jewish parents bring the children to the Palestinian neighbors to babysit them. And also we used to dance by the weddings of each other. I myself, I know many Palestinian songs. Just we’re singing that what we heard about the Palestinian weddings. We have a golden life each other together.

And look, I give you example. Even today’s day. I live in Stamford Hill. There are tens of thousands of Jewish people living there. They’re living many thousands of Muslims. I don’t know how many, in their synagogues, side by side with mosques, we’re helping each other. When the Jewish synagogues want to build out an extension, making bigger, the Muslim councilors are helping them. When the mosque in Khaz Nevad wants to build out, the Jewish councilors help them to get a payment. One of the Jewish councilors, his office is in the mosque. In the mosque of Khazanovo, there’s his office. There are people coming up to him. We have a golden life together.

I can’t say all the minicab drivers in our area, about four or five hundred, all of them are Muslims. If he’s sending us small children of two, three years in the playgroups with the Muslim drivers, I never ever even hear one single problem between them.

Burning the Israeli Flag: An Arrest in London

I tell you, just a nice thing. Two years ago I was by a rally here in London, a pro-Palestinian rally. And I burned the Israeli flag there.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: You burned the flag?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes, yes.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: That’s a crime, you know.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: The police arrested me. Okay, sure.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Okay. So you got arrested for it.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: And I asked the police, why are you arresting me? What is. It’s not against the law. No, no. This is racial hatred. I told him. To kill the children in Gaza is not racial hatred, but to burn an Israeli flag among 10,000 Muslims is racial hatred. I was in Hammersmith, here in the police station. And I had the first interview. It was Saturday, Friday night, half past three in the morning. They called me out for the first interview.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Half past three in the morning. So like late at night?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes, yes, yes. And they asked me, why do you do that? What do you want? At the end of the conversation I asked the police. Can I ask you something? Yes. I told him, I think I know you. Maybe you walking in my area in Stamford Hill. Tell me. Yes, I walking in Stoke Newington police station. I remember from my area. I saw him. I remember his face. What are you doing here? Sometimes we sharing. We going one place to the other. So I working now here. But usually I work in Stoke Newington. I told him, can I ask you some question? Yes. In Stamford Hill. Of course. You know the area? Yes. You’re patrolling the area. There are tens of thousands of Jewish people and tens of thousands of Muslims in the area. Both of them have their own. How many calls you have a day in fighting between the Jewish and the Muslim? You say nothing. How many times a week? How many times a month, a year? Never.

I told him why? Why? It’s not normal. Yes. There’s two people. They should fight each other. You don’t know. I told him. You know why? This is because of my racial hatred. What? I spreading out the hatred. This unites them. The Muslims know that people like me, the people in Stamford Hill are against the state of Israel. They have no problem with Jews. We’re living there as best friends.

Jewish Life in Muslim Countries

And you don’t have to go too far to the history. Look, Jewish people living today in Iran. I take the extreme example. Iran. Iran is the greatest enemy of Israel. In the middle of the war, Iran didn’t concentrate the Jewish people in concentration camps. Now they protect them like normal citizens. There are 35,000 Jewish people living in Iran just now. And they have a golden life there. Even in the middle of the war. They have no problem. The Iranians have no hatred against Jews. They have a problem with the occupation. And the Iranians say that again and again and again and again in the media. We are not against Jews, we are against the occupation.

But the mainstream media are under Zionist influence and they want to brush everybody with antisemitism. And then they can say, oh, this is Nazis, this is anti-Semitic. Haven’t got nothing to do with anti-Semitic. Why, why, why? The media didn’t bring out this point that Jewish people living in Iran now under the missiles, they’re living free. They have today their schools, their high schools, their old institutes. There’s a Jewish hospital in Iran funded completely by the government. Why you don’t see that in the news? They just say the Iranians are anti-Semites, the Nazis. Why people are so blatant? Why they don’t think, just open their eyes.

Not only Iran, all the Muslim countries are full of Jews. In Morocco, in Tunis, Algiers, Turkey, everywhere is full of Jewish people living there peacefully, they have no problem there. Why people are ignoring that? This all proves and shows that this haven’t got nothing to do with antisemitism.

You say you have friends who are anti-Semitic. I can promise you, bring them on my table. You will see they will love me. They have no problem with a Jew. They have a problem with occupation. They have a problem with the genocide. They want to see Palestine back to the Palestinians. I also want to see that. I’m waiting for this day. At this day I will be proud to go back to Palestine.

A Palestinian Passport for a Jewish Rabbi

I was here with the Palestinian ambassador. I told him I’m a Palestinian Jew, I want a Palestinian passport. He told me, unfortunately at the moment we are not issuing passports. But when we will, when we will, one of the first passports will be for you. I want to demonstrate for the world that it’s an honor for us to give a passport to a Jewish rabbi to show it haven’t got nothing to do with antisemitism. We are not against Jews. Jews will be welcome in Palestine. Jews will be welcome in Palestine when there’ll be a Palestinian country. As long they haven’t got any goals to take over the country. They want to live as loyal citizens.

And I will tell you a nice story. Sorry, this was three months ago. This was three months after the October 7th.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Three months before or after?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: After. After. In January.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Not 30 months ago. It’s about two years ago. Yeah.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: On January. It was on January. On January, three months. We were invited to take part in a big conference there for Palestine. And we come there, in the middle of the conference, appears there Ismail Haniyeh, you know who is that? I’m not allowed here by law to mention this terrorist group, but Ismail Haniyeh, yes. He was the leader of Hamas, the political leader of Hamas. He appears in the conference. He come up and he saw the rabbis. He told them to come up. He embraced our rabbis and they say we have no problem with Jews. I want to demonstrate for the world. Jews like these rabbis will be welcome in our Palestine. We have no problem with Jews. We have a problem with occupation. We have a problem with the genocide, but not with Jews. Jews like that will be welcome. We see that in many places this have nothing to do with anti-Semitism.

Israel’s “Right to Defend Itself”

ASHFAAQ CARIM: We’re about to conclude. But just a few more questions. Right. Many people who support the Israeli state, not just Zionists, I mean people who are probably even like soft Zionists, but even TV presenters, everyone sort of says the Zionists and Israel has a right to defend itself. Netanyahu uses this rhetoric a lot. There is this idea that because of what happened in the Holocaust, the Jews should have a state of their own so that they can kind of be safe. What’s your thoughts on that, really?

The Right to Defend — But Who Gave the Right to Take?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: You asked two questions, but I will try to answer that. Firstly, that one say that the Zionists have the right to defend themselves. But who gives them the right to be there in the first place? It’s not their land. You cannot rob away someone’s house and then say I have the right to defend ourselves. Give back the house to the right owner. Then you want. You don’t have any enemies, you’re not in danger. You’re in danger because you took away someone’s house. Give back the house.

Who gives the Zionists the right to take away the land in the first hand from the people who used to live there? They bring up Jewish people from the whole world with money tricks to become a majority to take over the land. Everybody who knows the history knows Jews was only 10%, maybe less than that, 400 years ago in the Holy Land. The Zionists bring up a majority with money tricks and then they take away the land from the right owners, from the right people who used to live there. And they say I have the right to defend myself. Who gives you the right to be there?

And I might have to say more, even though I don’t want to go into politics. But no one, no one in the world has the right to take a country from the people who live there and give it to another people. England — who gives the land? The United Kingdom gives the land to the Zionist people by the Balfour Declaration. Who is England to give it away to another people? Can I give your house away to somebody else? This doesn’t belong to England, and even the United Nations haven’t got the right to this.

And I tell you more. Keir Starmer — yes, he’s our Prime Minister. Very respected. Fine. Very good. He runs the country. Very good. If he will one day decide to give away England as a present for Italy — yes, what’s going to happen? Everybody will stand up against him. He hasn’t got the right to that. It’s not his country. Even the King cannot do that. It’s not his country. The land belongs to the English people who live here. Palestine belongs to the people who live there. These are the Palestinian people. That’s all.

Nobody in the world — not the UN and not the United Kingdom and no one in the world — has the right to take away this piece of land and give it away to other people just because they like them. Nothing will make this right. This wrong will never become a right, no difference who done this wrong. So now Israel comes and says we have the right to defend ourselves. But who gives you the right to take it in the first place? It’s not your land. Give back the land to the Palestinians.

Zionism Has Not Made Jews Safer

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: And now I come back to the other question — what you’re asking about the Holocaust. That Jews went through a Holocaust and Jews need a safe country. And the Zionists say we will save you and we will give you a safe country and we will save all the Jews in the whole world from antisemitism.

I don’t have to answer. I just say open your eyes. In today’s day, where is the most dangerous place for a Jew? Not for a Palestinian — for a Jew to live — one place: Israel. We live in the whole world nicely, peacefully. We have no problem. I live here in England nearly 40 years. I never saw a soldier on the street. I never see somebody going with guns. We don’t see that in the street. This means a safe country.

Israel — every small child grows up with soldiers, with guns, with tanks. With all of this, a safe country? Every day another bomb, another killing. This is the most unsafe place for a Jew. For a Jew. We live in the Muslim world much safer than in Israel. Jewish people have a golden life in Iran, a golden life in Morocco, a golden life in Turkey. Everywhere Jews live peacefully. The only dangerous place for a Jew to live is the state of Israel.

Did they bring any safety for Jews? They only bring hatred, killing and danger for Jewish people. They say they’re saving Jewish people from antisemitism. They’re only raising antisemitism all over the world. Since the Second World War, antisemitism went out of fashion. And everybody who said even one word that looked antisemitic had to apologize. Apologize. Apologize.

Who is raising antisemitism in today’s day? As I told you, I go in the street and I hear behind me, “Heil Hitler, Hitler.” That means he watched yesterday a film of Gaza. They are raising antisemitism all over the world. They bring Jewish people into danger.

Why is all this happening — the incidents with ambulances and all of this? This is only because of the war with Iran, because of the war in Gaza. People get so angry and people unfortunately mix up Jewish people with Zionism. Because secular Zionists they cannot identify, but they see people like me — “Oh, he’s the Zionist, he’s the Jew.” They mix up between Judaism and Zionism. So this has happened.

They are raising all the antisemitism and then they come to cry, “Oh, this is antisemitic. Antisemitic. Antisemitic.” Every time the police come to protect us and protect our neighborhood. I told them I’m very thankful you’re coming to protect us. Very nice, very good. But you don’t need to. We just take out one Palestinian flag and it will answer all the questions — finish. We don’t need it. We don’t need police protection. The Muslims don’t hate us, they hate Zionists. When they see we are against the state of Israel, they have no problem with Jews. You will not see even one incident.

So again I come back to the point. The Zionists are not saving Jews. The Zionists are just creating hatred against Jews and making Jews in danger.

The Holocaust Does Not Justify Taking Palestinian Land

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: And what do you speak about what happened in the Holocaust? Firstly, before we go into any explanation — the Holocaust doesn’t justify robbing away land from other people. If you want land, go claim from the Nazis to give you a part of their land. Go to Germany to ask for land. The Palestinians didn’t make the Holocaust — why do they have to pay the bill for what the Nazis have done? This is completely unreasonable.

If the nations of the world want to help Jewish people, fine. Say to America, give them the state of Florida for the Jewish people. We are also not allowed to take that, as we are in exile — we have a sworn oath to God not to go out of exile. However, if you want to give them something, say to England, please give them Newcastle for Jewish people. Very nice. What do you want from the Palestinians who didn’t make the Holocaust?

Firstly. Secondly, as I told you, Zionism does not save Jewish people from a Holocaust. They are only banking antisemitism on that.

The Future: A Peaceful End to the State of Israel

ASHFAAQ CARIM: It’s been a difficult two and a half years especially, and it looks like war is not going to stop anytime soon — although we hope it does — with the war with Iran and a bigger regional war. What are your thoughts on the future?

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Look, I’m a Jewish rabbi, but I’m not a prophet. But I can just say from the religious point of view — I mentioned it before — according to the Torah, the state of Israel will come to an end. It’s written in the Torah, in Numbers 14:41: a rebellion against God cannot succeed. The state of Israel will come to an end. We hope and pray for a peaceful end, and that the whole land from the river to the sea will go back to the Palestinians.

How will it happen? I know people say, “Oh…” I say every time, I pray to God it should happen in a peaceful way. People say, “Oh, this cannot be, this will cost millions of lives.” I say every time to people, no — just open your eyes. Remember what happened 35 years ago.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: It was in my times.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Yes, it was 1990 when the USSR disappeared. The USSR was one of the second world powers. It was one of the greatest powers. And for people to think that the USSR would come to an end — people thought this cannot be, this will happen with millions of lives. It didn’t cost even one single life. Not even one single life.

The second example — you see that in South Africa it cost lives, but not so much as people think. People thought it would cost millions of lives; it cost much, much, much less than that. So that proves that there is a way. If there is a will, there is a way.

And this is always my message to the United Kingdom and the United States and to the EU — for helping Israel so blindly, so blindly. It could be they have a good intention. They want to help Jews and they’re mixing up between Jews and Zionists. They want to help Jews — could be. I’m not God to judge the intentions. But what the deeds, what they’re doing, is completely wrong. They don’t help Jews with the state of Israel. The state of Israel just brings Jews into danger. If you want to help Jews, please bring a peaceful end to the state of Israel.

And again, if there is a will, there is a way. The USSR is the proof of that. South Africa is the proof of that. The state of Israel will come to an end. We hope in a peaceful way. The land will go back to the Palestinians. It doesn’t mean Jews have to be killed. No. We can continue living in Palestine like we live in Iran, like we live in Morocco, like we live in Turkey, like we live in Iraq. Even when all Muslims come to peace, we can continue living in Palestine. But give back the government completely to the Palestinians — from the river to the sea. And then Jews and Muslims can live there together, side by side, under a Palestinian government, under a Palestinian flag.

And again, according to the Torah, this will happen. I’m not a politician, but this will happen according to the Torah. I just say that again from the Jewish perspective, from the Jewish religion — from Numbers 14, verse 41 — the state of Israel will come to an end. Hopefully it will happen in our days. They will come to an end, to a peaceful end, and the land will go back to the Palestinians. I hope that I will see that in my lifetime.

ASHFAAQ CARIM: Inshallah. Rabbi, thank you so much.

RABBI ELHANAN BECK: Thank you.

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