Call Her Daddy: w/ Tana Mongeau – Internet Lore, Sobriety & Finding Love (Transcript)

I want to hear this story from your perspective. So I’m at Barstool. We had never had a guest. We were like, should we have a guest? I was such a huge fan of yours. I was watching your YouTubes. I was like, Tana would be the perfect person.

TANA MONGEAU: Like, I was very gluck at that time.

ALEX COOPER: You were so gluck.

TANA MONGEAU: I was beyond.

ALEX COOPER: You were so on brand for us. We were so congruent with our brands then, and now we’re both a little bit more brand safe.

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And we’ve grown. But at the time, you then slept through the interview.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes. Well, I was sick, but I will say at the time as well, like, who gives a f*?

ALEX COOPER: Tell me the story from your perspective.

TANA MONGEAU: I was touring and I had a day off, and even just my team at the time — you can imagine what my assistants looked like — we were all just hammered and all of those things. And yeah, factually, I just felt like shit, and I was like, I’m so sorry, I can’t make this, and whatever. But maybe if you were doing a little better to your immune system, you would have shown up. And like, also now it’s like, maybe if you’re touring, don’t agree on your one-off day. And obviously this was 10 years ago and I was so bad with timing then, just so, so bad. I had to learn that lesson for 10 more years to come, honestly.

ALEX COOPER: But to be fair, and I said this to you at lunch, you guys, it really was the best blessing.

TANA MONGEAU: And it breaks my heart. No, but when I look back at all of those moments where I just fell so short and I was such a piece of shit in so many ways, I know it’s 10 years ago and I know I’ve changed, but it’s just like, you want to go back and shake that girl for sure, you know?

ALEX COOPER: And now looking back, it’s really not that deep, but at the time, being such a huge fan, it definitely hurt.

TANA MONGEAU: But no, like, valid.

The Clout House Interview

ALEX COOPER: And then when I took the show over and did it solo, you came on the show.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes. And I think that there is something to be said about the fact that you gave me a little bit of a proper joking hazing. And I was also coming off of all of the Jake Paul stuff at that time. I was also a drunk mess. You came and you interviewed me while I was living in the Clout House. No, in my house with like 8 floors that I didn’t need to be living in, and I needed rehab once again.

ALEX COOPER: You need to slow down because I will never forget.

TANA MONGEAU: Please. And I’ve forgotten a lot, so please refresh me.

ALEX COOPER: So first of all, you completely forgot — and I told you this and you were like, we did. We went to Catch the night before I interviewed you on Call Her Daddy.

TANA MONGEAU: And now I remember, like, I remember the paparazzi photos, which is such an embarrassing, pathetic way to remember so much of your life — in paparazzi photos. But I have no idea what happened in that restaurant, Tana.

ALEX COOPER: I know, I know, you guys. So for context, I flew out to LA. I’m so excited. I’m going to have like kind of my first round of guests on for Call Her Daddy. And my now husband Matt dropped me off at Catch, and he’s like, “So who are you going to see at Catch?” And I was like, “Tana Mongeau.” And he was like, okay. He drops me off, I walk in, and it’s like you and I think — I forget who’s there. It may have been Trevi, it may have been Ashley, I forget. There was like a couple people there, and I was solo riding with you and your squad. And we talked all of — no, look at you. You don’t remember anything.

TANA MONGEAU: I genuinely feel like — it’s sad to an extent where I’m just like, how much of my life I don’t remember. But I get to get it in bits and pieces.

ALEX COOPER: Let me tell you.

TANA MONGEAU: So here we are.

ALEX COOPER: So here we are. We’re having a spicy tuna roll and we’re talking about how you had flaked on Call Her Daddy, and we’re talking about the interview and how I’m going to bring it up and we’re going to make a joke out of it and it will be so good for clicks or whatever. And there’s paparazzi downstairs and the whole thing. So you were on board with this whole plan?

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: So I show up the next day to the Clout House, and to anyone that is remembering now with me — Clout House, Hype House — we saw all of this online, but to walk into an actual TikTok influencer YouTuber home, I was so intimidated.

TANA MONGEAU: It was so funny.

ALEX COOPER: It was so scary. There were so many people. I opened the front door. I had no team at the time. I had like one freelancer with me and then one person who had worked with me at Barstool. And we walk in, people I’ve seen online walking around filming. Everyone’s filming 24/7.

TANA MONGEAU: Well, because my house was just my house, but then the Hype House was next door and they’d somehow acquired my door codes, which is just — what in the fing simulation are you? And at one point, Post Malone and his friends were next door and it was like this whole conglomerate where everyone just walked into other people’s houses. People would walk in unclothed. It was like — and at this time as well, it was such a juxtaposition because my parents were suing me for everything that I had. So I’m in the lowest point of my life while I’m trying to present that — because at that time too, that was the epitome of success to me, to live in this Clout House and live in this thing. And how lost you have to be to think that this is the epitome of success? And just what a mindf. And it’s like, once again, maybe you don’t need to Call Her Daddy. Maybe you need intensive, intensive EMDR therapy.

ALEX COOPER: But you were amazing on that episode. And I remember sitting on the black couch that you and Brooke end up doing Cancelled on, and I’m sitting there waiting for you. And I think Amari was around and a couple people are setting up the cameras and I’m so intimidated, I’m so nervous.

TANA MONGEAU: It’s so funny, I perceived it so differently. I think I was so nervous, and I knew I had wronged you before and I wanted you to like me.

Our Origin Story

ALEX COOPER: I wanted you to like me, like I was a fan. I watched your story times, I watched you in Vegas, like I watched you growing up on my screen. So I was shitting my pants. And then we do the episode and I remember you told like the craziest sex stories and you’d also— idea, no idea. And I remember you told also like really really understandably like horrific shit about your parents and what you were going through lightly. And it was great. And we were like, this is going to get so many views. And it did, and it did so well.

But then people were very divided. They were either like, “Alex, you went too hard at Tana. Like, okay, so she missed the Call Her Daddy first episode, like let it go.” Or people were like, “Yeah, Tana’s a fing disaster, like f that bitch.” And it was like, oh my God, wait guys, we were kind of playing it up for the cameras.

TANA MONGEAU: And also, anytime anyone has ever brought that up to me, I think that a lot of the things you were saying, in my opinion, were a public opinion and were public questions. I was such a disaster in so many ways, and God forbid a journalist is doing some boots on the ground trying to get to the bottom of it. And also, yes, I missed that, but it was a pivotal moment for you and everything that had happened before, that I had missed that and we had never talked about it on camera. And I stand on exactly why your approach was that way, you know?

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, so crazy.

TANA MONGEAU: Also the way the internet— because then I think that I went on for a long time to be like, does Alex Cooper even like me? And I really lived with this reservation because of the internet’s commentary.

ALEX COOPER: I know.

TANA MONGEAU: And it’s like, because I was— again, I was so like, you were valid in everything that you were saying at that time, to where I was like, it almost was a good thing to have you ask me these questions and why I was thinking this way and haze me a little bit for the thing that I had done wrong. And it’s so funny how much the internet can do the thing that it does. It’s so wild. And then While Vegas happens, and I’m like, oh, we’re cool, because it’s been so long and we’ve both grown so much.

ALEX COOPER: So I think what we’re trying to say is our origin story was very complex and it felt tumultuous maybe to the internet. But I think you and I both always had this thing where we were like, I want to know you and I really f with you, but the only fing time that we’ve ever really been able to hang out is with cameras in our face.

TANA MONGEAU: And we’re both on, and that’s such a thing. Even on While Vegas, you’re dealing with a million things, and I get that, you know what I mean? And I was so— but I also think I’ve been saying this a lot in my life right now, that I think the universe protected me from fostering a lot of relationships until I was sober and capable of fostering those relationships. And to be the part— I’m so happy that this is happening now versus any other time. And obviously we were both chaotic and we would have gotten along about the glucks and all the different things, of course. I think we would have gotten along at any point in time, you know what I mean? But I had a little catching up to do, and I’m happy that it’s now, I guess.

ALEX COOPER: Well, I’m happy too. And I even just felt at that lunch like, I agree with you. I don’t think you and I would have been not only capable, but just uninterested in the depth of just one lunch together. And we were both almost crying at the end. We’re like, yeah, oh my God, there’s so much to discuss and so many similarities and differences and things to learn from each other.

TANA MONGEAU: So I guess I’d always lived with this wondering of like, would we get along? Would we find things, commonalities? Would we see the world in a similar way? We left that lunch and I was like, this is really cool to see. I was so amazed to see such a human, human being across from me, you know what I mean? And I’m sure you felt the same way. You had never seen me in a human being light, and I was like, it’s very cool to just— she’s just a girl.

Growing Up on the Internet

ALEX COOPER: So now I want to kind of go through— oh, it’s so fun to reminisce. This is so fun. I think when I look back at the beginning of my career, and you’ve been doing this for so long, I did a lot of things in the beginning days understandably to gain attention. Of course we have to put that in.

TANA MONGEAU: I know, that was so— I feel like Cole Sprouse, the way I’m like the digital version of the hotbox.

ALEX COOPER: Fully puffing, and you know, I’m done. You know, but you going like this, gracefully, Queen Elizabeth style.

TANA MONGEAU: There’s a photo of you over here, like full regal. That’s what I’m trying to give about my absolute problem. I need a patch.

ALEX COOPER: I really tried to— I did a lot of things for attention is basically what I’m saying. And I think a lot of it also was because that day and age of the internet with YouTube and everything, it was so— you had to kind of do that to break into the industry.

TANA MONGEAU: And there was this feeling of scarcity, I think, and this fear of like, if I don’t do this, someone else will. And I don’t really know a lot about your upbringing or where you came from, but speaking for myself, I guess I lived in a lot of fear. Fear was my only number one biggest motivator across my career at all times. Like, if I don’t do this and I don’t say this crazy thing and I don’t do this, someone else is going to, and I’m going to be gone tomorrow. And quite frankly, I’m going to be back at home with my parents. I think I had to live that way. I felt like I had to live that way for so long.

ALEX COOPER: And I think you’re being rewarded for it.

TANA MONGEAU: You are.

ALEX COOPER: I was going to say there’s a weird thing where it’s like the drive of fear, as f*ed up as it is, is probably why you have gotten as far as you have, as opposed to someone who’s been kind of handed everything to them. They’re like, I don’t need to try that hard. You have grinded. You have gotten canceled, you’ve gotten uncanceled, you have gone through different phases. You have literally gotten through so many different eras of your life in the public eye. And so I want to ask you, going back a little bit, what were some types of things when you got to LA that you were doing just for views that you can now look back and be like, oh my God, I was really—

TANA MONGEAU: It was hard almost for me to differentiate it. I think I became so engulfed in that person, and I think it snowballed as well. I mean, also it all comes back to the story times, right? I’m using these salacious titles and these crazy things, and I’m learning that people want to see this, and I’m blurring those lines. And I’m praying that an Uber driver gives me a bad experience so that I can pay my bills to get away from my parents and hopefully get emancipated. And it all started there, and then it just snowballs.

And I almost think that that was that time, you know. My first friend in LA was FaZe Banks. And we did foster a great friendship and stuff like that, but I mean, same thing that he was calling that the Cloud House, and they were all doing that, and the FaZe Clan was doing that. And then I moved on to meeting the Paul brothers, who definitely had a very similar mindset and stuff. I was dating Bella Thorne, and everyone was obsessed with that. There are just so many— it’s a culmination of a million things that it truly just became who I was. I lost myself in LA over the course of time, I guess.

Doing Things for the Story

ALEX COOPER: I think that’s such a good point, like how you just said you were praying for a bad Uber driver experience. I think any single person who makes content now, I think at any degree, you go into it and you start making things and it’s so fun, and then you have that one day and you can’t really pinpoint when it was where you’re like, but if I do this, it will make for such a good video. Yes. And then once you— I remember I literally was on Raya. I met a guy and I flew to Paris before even meeting him. I was out of my mind. I would’ve never done that, but I had a vlog camera on a YouTube channel at the time, right before Call Her Daddy. And I was like, I want to do this. I would’ve never gotten on the plane—

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: —if I didn’t have a YouTube channel. So I was doing things for the story.

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: That then motivates your life in a way that’s like, you’re kind of a prisoner to the content.

TANA MONGEAU: Of course. Or just to this mindset that I have to build this lore and I have to do these things. And it’s like, all of the things that I look back on, you know what I mean? It got all the way to the point of a fake wedding. It got all the way to that point, and it’s just like, I can’t really differentiate. So many moments in between all of it were genuine, you know what I mean? Like, I did love and care about so many of these people, and I still stuck with my ride or dies from Vegas from day one. I didn’t fully become this sociopath view monster, but so much of what I was doing was pushing that boundary and that envelope.

And I even think about just Alex Warren and I would be like, let’s get a thousand hissing eating cockroaches and do this thing. It was like, I don’t know, it just became who I was. And then I woke up one day and was like, oh my God, I don’t want to do that anymore. So as you get older and your frontal lobe develops, it wasn’t until 25 or 26 where I was just like, I want to be a person with so much more depth and substance. And I realized the weight of my platform and like—

ALEX COOPER: And it’s so hard to get off the roller coaster because you also— I didn’t start my career in LA, and at the time in my career there wasn’t like New York City influencers. So it kind of was— we were siloed in New York, and then there was like Barstool Boys. But you guys had so many people to help you if you turned left or right. There were so many people doing it, right?

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And so everyone was doing it, so it felt probably also normal.

TANA MONGEAU: It really did. And I talk about this a lot as well now, that especially since short-form content has started to happen, so many of these influencers now, as they blow up, CAA and UTA and all of these talent agencies are ready to help them. And they’ve seen all the mistakes of all of the other creators, so they know what not to do. Now everyone has a PR person, so they know what not to do. And it was none of that. It was boots on the ground journalism in the regard that I’m not going to sit here and be like, we pioneered it, like, that’s f*ing dramatic. But it was figuring everything out for the first time, and it was convincing these brands that influencers were just as valuable as a Facebook ad. It was making the mistake and then having to make the apology video and learning that culture and the apology video. Oh my God. I get a cigarette. I’m like, back in my day— it just, all of these things were being figured out for the first time.

The Role of Controversy

ALEX COOPER: Can we talk about though, because controversy— I think that inevitably and unfortunately it is obvious that the more controversial something is, the more people are going to pay attention online to it.

TANA MONGEAU: And you learn that. And if you’re not in a good headspace, you start to compartmentalize the hate and just think that any attention is good attention. And when you have a million people around you kind of feeding into that notion, it can be such a scary snowball.

ALEX COOPER: Is there anything that you look back on in those days, something that you’re like, that was so just controversial at the time and I just knew it would do well for views, but like, I’m like, what the f* was I doing?

TANA MONGEAU: It’s so hard, Alex, to give you anecdotal answers because it was everything. And it almost wasn’t— one thing that I will say is that so much of it was not like— I’m not going to give myself the credit that I was this mastermind scheming so much. It was almost just the way I was living.

I think that I was just— I guess the difference is, is that a lot of other people possessed a lot of discretion and they knew like maybe this party last night where we all did a bunch of drugs, I’m not going to talk about it online tomorrow because I have discretion and I care about my reputation and I have self-worth and I have parents, right? Like all of these things. Whereas I was like, no one’s doing this and I’m just going to share it all. And almost like a “who cares” mindset, right?

ALEX COOPER: There were no boundaries for you. It was just kind of like anything goes at all.

TANA MONGEAU: Exactly. I lived with an anything goes. I lived without discretion up until maybe 72 hours ago. That’s a joke.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, anything random comes to mind, if you could erase something from the internet, what would it be of yourself?

The “Team Bryce on God” Moment

TANA MONGEAU: I’ve definitely had nights where I stay up late and I think, God, how much better would it be if even the paparazzi or “Team Bryce on God” was erased from the internet? But at the same time, and just like the jaw swinging— I can look back, there’s a paparazzi video of me going, “I hate people, I love them.” The paparazzi had asked me, I was leaving Catch, honestly it was right around the same time as you and I had gotten that dinner, and the paparazzi had asked me, “How do you feel about Addison Rae and Bryce Hall’s breakup?” And I say, “I hate people, I love them.”

And then at the time, I was very close with Josie Conseco, and for some reason, how f*ed up I was, I thought that Jose Conseco, her father, was my best friend. So I’m talking about “Take Me Out to the Ballgame,” I’m talking about “Jose Conseco’s my best friend.” And I can look back at those moments and be like, that is objectively hilarious, and I don’t want that erased.

But then my jaw continued to swing for a little too long, you know, where it’s like— but at the same time, I’m a firm believer in the butterfly effect, all the way down to the shoes I’m wearing today and the sweatsuit you’re wearing today. That changed the entire course of our day. I think that every little thing got me to the person that I am.

And for so long, I was a person that I was not proud of. For so long, I was a person that I absolutely hated. And every single mistake or embarrassing thing taught me something. Whether it was heavy criticism, whether it was like, “You are so f*ing embarrassing, get it together”— and I just get scared when I think about, what if I erase that one thing and I continued to be that person? I would be so sad if I was still that person.

ALEX COOPER: That’s such a good point too, Tana. Like, we see on the internet the “Team Bryce on God” moment, and everyone’s like, “This is so funny, this is the biggest meme of the year, holy shit.” But you are also looking back being like, oh my God, like, why were we “Team Bryce on God”?

TANA MONGEAU: Like, let’s be “Team God on God.” Maybe find God. And it’s funny because I actually was sober in that video, which makes it so much worse. But I mean, better the night before, better right after. I’m just saying, like— oh, you were fully so—

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, no, no, no, just like in that very moment.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes, in that— but no, but I think it’s more so one of those things where I was just lost, you know what I mean? Like, it just— who I was and the things I wanted to attend and the people I wanted.

ALEX COOPER: So you’re seeing these videos and you’re like, oh my God, I see someone that’s so lost and hurting. And then the internet though is kind of perpetuating like, “This is so funny, Tana.” And so it’s like, should she do it again? Should she keep going? And it’s like, when do you eventually be like, I have to stop?

Identity, Numbness, and the Party Girl Persona

TANA MONGEAU: With my identity so much in that way, because at the time I think even you’re saying “so lost and hurting,” I think I didn’t know that I was hurting. I think that I now know I was hurting and I was numbing all of these things that had happened to me and just continuing to get number and number and abuse substances more and numbing all these things that had happened to me.

But in my head I was like, “I am a party girl, I’m Tana Lindsay Lohan, let’s go.” Which is like— and then people love that image and you start the wine brand and you’re throwing the parties and you’re gathering the lore that then works so amazingly for this podcast that you’re doing. And all of these things that you convince yourself that no one’s going to love you if you stop all of these things. And my identity became so tied to it to where I thought that not only that I loved being that, but that’s who I had to be or no one would listen.

ALEX COOPER: And all of those things, Tana— and all of those things, we totally both tip over and start crying. Wait, let’s talk about the criticism, because in a way— and correct me if I’m wrong, but I think a lot of people I’ve talked to, especially in this industry, you kind of start to dissociate in a way where you look back and you’re like, I don’t really remember certain things, because you’re just like, I’m going along and I’m surviving and I don’t know what’s happening. Or you’re just blacking it out and you’re compartmentalizing, right? But then people are criticizing you, and heavily, heavily. And I want—

TANA MONGEAU: Rightfully so though.

ALEX COOPER: I want you to though, like, take me to your headspace when you would get criticism online, because a lot of people watching this will have never experienced it at the level that you have, where people are saying things about you. How would you handle that? And how has that evolved for you?

Handling Criticism and TanaCon

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah, it’s definitely evolved a lot, but I think that for a long time the big things did stick. TanaCon, for example. I spent an entire week at my best friend’s apartment sobbing on the floor, reading everything, knowing that the whole world hated me and that I was a f*ing failure and that I failed my fans. And I have goosebumps right now. I will never— it’s a part of me that will never get over that failure because I failed my fans so tangibly and directly.

However, that criticism stuck with me, and I knew that I needed to ensure that all of my business partners— even though they were saying yes, if they were actually capable of doing things, that you couldn’t just trust people if they said they were going to do something. And I didn’t know that lesson before. And I learned that maybe I need more people around me that will say no to me, which I think was a longer lesson, took me a little longer to learn.

But the big things did really stick, you know what I mean? Even just more anecdotal things where when I had bailed on BFF’s podcast, Dave Portnoy came online and said, “Don’t do business with her, she’s a f*ing bozo.” That one stuck with me where I was like, I don’t want to be that girl. And then the substances were allowing me to continue to fail and whatever, but I internalized them and was doing my best to grow.

ALEX COOPER: How did you eventually learn the difference between being canceled versus being held accountable?

TANA MONGEAU: I have always shared everything, so it’s not like I have this fake personality online that people were criticizing. They were criticizing me and who I was to my core. So when I would receive those, it was like, okay, maybe take some notes and refine, right?

And I’m not saying to internalize everything that the internet says because I think things can be ostracized too far both ways, the good and the bad. And if you place too much value in either of those things, you lose who you are and what your value is. And there is a difference between that. And I think that that’s why it’s so important to ensure that your inner circle is so amazing. I think I would be dead without my best friends who are my family, my chosen family around me, holding me accountable though, like not a bunch of yes men, but ensuring me that there is a real world.

My new obsession these days is touching the f* out of grass. I love grass. It is the best thing ever.

ALEX COOPER: And you’re in Hawaii, girl.

Finding Perspective Through Love and Intention

TANA MONGEAU: My boyfriend helped me with that so much, like just seeing his outlook on the world, just him understanding that this is just this one bubble that I live in and there’s this whole big world out there, and trees and scenery are beautiful and connections with family are awesome, and deep conversations are awesome, and knowing who you are is awesome.

And this is the first era in my life where my team and I— my head of content guy, he’s also one of my best friends, and we’ve been friends for a long time. We’ve finally gotten the chance to work on my new project together, and him and I have really spearheaded the phrase towards this entire era of intention versus attention, and it just being the very first time that that’s what matters, and that our intentions are so pure, and that we know who the f* we are, and we’re not doing this to garner attention. Because that’s also the thing too, is when you are toeing that line of garnering attention, you are also making yourself so much more susceptible to walking that tightrope of flying too close to the sun and all of the things.

ALEX COOPER: It can get really f*ing dangerous. I think that you’re known obviously for being so authentic online, so I do want to hear a couple of your takes today. I want to get your opinion.

TANA MONGEAU: I was doing my “ooh” to her before and she was like, “Are you okay? Are you giving Jennifer Coolidge?”

ALEX COOPER: What are you doing? What is new.

TANA MONGEAU: There’s definitely some spectrum that I’m on, right? Like, I love a vocal stim.

ALEX COOPER: You’re just like going—

TANA MONGEAU: Okay, let’s get your take. It can be good or bad.

ALEX COOPER: Opinion on a few things.

TANA MONGEAU: Okay.

Hot Takes: Brand Trips and Opulence

ALEX COOPER: What is your take on the current state of extravagant brand trips? Have they lost the plot?

TANA MONGEAU: Wow. I mean, I think as long as people are doing good— where we’re at in society right now, just showing off opulence and that being all that you are is so— that was a big lesson that I learned across this time. I had a psychic actually tell me that I would go so heavily into philanthropy. And the psychic told me this at a time in my life where I was like, “Absolutely not. I want to go to Poppy tonight. What the f* are you talking about? Maybe I’ll do philanthropy when I share something under my fingernail with someone else. That’s as philanthropic as I’ll ever get.”

ALEX COOPER: Under my fingernail. Okay, yes, yep.

Intentionality and Saying No

TANA MONGEAU: And now as I get to this point in life, I’m like, I realize how important it is if you have something to give, how much you need to give back and stuff. I think that now, right now, if someone was like, “Do you want to go on this brand trip with this crop top brand with these girls and take— they’re all going to be taking 1,000 tequila shots and like that’s the whole point”— I’m saying no. No, I think it’s the first time in my life where I’m saying no. For so long I was so excited to say yes to everything because I mean, if anything came across my desk, I was just stoked something was coming across my desk, right?

ALEX COOPER: Now you’re able to kind of discern like, does this— is this for attention or is this intentional? Like, is this actually meaningful to me and makes sense for me right now in my life?

TANA MONGEAU: Yes. And do I morally feel like this is a good or right thing to do? Do I feel like this is helpful for the greater good, either of what I’m doing with my platform or the bigger picture of the world today that needs so much help.

ALEX COOPER: And sometimes it just takes literally growing up.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: Like if you’re 22 and you’re getting invited on the brand trip, you’re like, “Why, what, why would I not?”

TANA MONGEAU: Who cares what people think I look like? Let’s take a shot at Turks and Caicos. Like that was me for so long and now I’m just like, you know, they don’t need it.

The Hailey Bieber Internet Switch Up

ALEX COOPER: How do you feel about the internet switch up on Hailey Bieber after Coachella?

TANA MONGEAU: I mean, I’m the biggest Belieber until I die. Like, she could run me over. I could be in the road and she— no pun intended— on the road, I could be in the road and she could run me over. I love her to death. And I think even just that the Hailey and Selena shit was so disheartening to me because it’s like, God forbid they both just want to run off into the sunset and live their lives. It was so ostracized that there’s no other way, and over a man. And I love Justin Bieber, but still, over a man, that there’s no possible ending to this story than these two women having to burn each other’s houses down. It’s so sad to me.

ALEX COOPER: It is so sad. And I loved Hailey’s response being— she said like, “Save your apologies, the therapy’s already paid for.” I was like, babe, honestly, good for you.

TANA MONGEAU: God forbid you also want to stay with the person and heal and grow with them. And like, she did that. She stuck by his side and rode with him, maybe at times where he wasn’t the best, but like, that shows that you’re a ride or die and that you love this person and you want to be a mom and you want to release f*ing peptide lip gloss that are bomb.

ALEX COOPER: Like, let the bitch live.

TANA MONGEAU: Like, it just—

ALEX COOPER: It’s so true. Everyone switches up so fast. It’s like whiplash. But I also respect Hailey so much for kind of being like, “Save it.” Like, I don’t need— whether you love me or hate me, I don’t really care anymore. Like, I’ve had to find peace because you guys have bullied me for so f*ing long.

TANA MONGEAU: And people just like, oh my God. I know that you can write off— there are so many people that are going to be like, “She’s famous, she’s married to Justin Bieber, she’s fine.” But like, what that does to your psyche— people, even her OG Met Gala where people were screaming at her on the carpet, awful things. Like, what that does to your psyche, feeling like you can’t leave your house without— even in little scandals of mine, I would feel that way, where you’re leaving the house and you’re at the coffee shop and the barista’s looking at you and you’re like, “They hate me, they hate me, they hope I die. They hate me so much,” and they probably don’t and don’t know and whatever. I can’t imagine on that level, what that does to your psyche.

ALEX COOPER: She is a very strong woman. And it’s just— it would never happen to— it’s such a good point. Do you think people have lost their sense of individualism because of social media and the constant trend cycle?

Social Media, Individualism, and the Trend Cycle

TANA MONGEAU: Oh, to an extent, yes. Like, I ordered a Jelly Cat the other day and it’s just like, why did I order that Jelly Cat? Okay. Buster’s going to chew it up in three hours. There is definitely that. But I also really try to look at social media not through a general lens of “everyone and everything is awful,” because it’s very easy to do that nowadays. There are still so many creators that are bringing individualism and philanthropy and good things to the forefront of their pages. And I try to— even like a Julia Fox is a great example of someone who just so individually stands 10 toes down on their opinions and all of those things. There are the Julia Foxes of the world who remind us that we can just have our own opinions and be individual. And I try to just focus on that, otherwise you’ll just, you know, go viral.

ALEX COOPER: And it’s true, like sometimes it is fun to participate in trends, but then it is also like if you’re doing it every f*ing time, then maybe slow your roll. Like, what is your actual own fashion sense? What are your own actual beliefs? Like, are you just regurgitating what you’re scrolling every day?

TANA MONGEAU: And opinions as well. I think that I struggle with that a lot, because I always want to share my honest opinion and sometimes it’s not, you know.

The Launch of Cancelled

ALEX COOPER: Let’s talk about Cancelled.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: So you had such a presence on the internet, YouTube— everyone knew you for your story times. You, like we just kind of talked about earlier, you had evolved so intensely in different categories and different moments and marriages and relationships and all the marriages— and then you launched this podcast and it felt like kind of a pretty big shift in your career and your life at the time. Did it feel that way?

TANA MONGEAU: I don’t think I was as aware of it at the time, but when I look back now— and I just want to say something that I don’t feel like I’ve said yet in this kind of time of my life in an interview— if I had a f*ing time machine and I could go back, I would do it all over again, every time just the same. Like, it was crazy and wild. And it’s funny, even now I’m realizing that there are moments that I don’t even really remember. There’s a part of me that’s like, Brooke and I just woke up one day and we had one of the biggest podcasts in the world. And there wasn’t a lot of like— I don’t even know how it happened. But it’s because it was just so authentic. And it was so authentic to me at the time. And what her and I had— I think it did save my career in so many ways. Had I just kept drinking and trying to renegade and not had this long-form thing with this incredible dynamic with this other person, I have no idea where I would be now, you know?

ALEX COOPER: And I think also, for anyone that lived under a rock— you and Brooke, your co-host at the time, you were either weighing in on internet culture and drama specifically, or I think more towards the end, you then also started to kind of expose it a little bit. Like, you would bring stories forward.

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah, our personal lives. Yes, your personal lives and just the things that we were experiencing, because that was so much of what we were doing, going out and doing all of the crazy things. And Cancelled also provided this crazy life for us, like where we’re looking at each other at the People’s Choice Awards and watching like Jennifer Aniston or whoever present, like, “How the hell did this happen?” You know what I mean?

Crossing Lines and Chasing Views

ALEX COOPER: Because I relate in a lot of ways— like, early Call Her Daddy days felt a little bit like what you’re describing, where there almost wasn’t a moment to be like, “Wait, it’s the biggest show in the world, oh my God,” like it’s happening, just keep pushing your f*ing foot down on the gas and just go, go, go. That’s how I felt for sure in the beginning. Like, did you ever start to have concern a little bit of like, “Ooh, bringing drama and how many views we’re getting— are we crossing a line at all?” Like, where did you start to have those conversations, if at all?

TANA MONGEAU: I think that for a while we were just talking shit about our real lives and all of the things that were happening. I will say that something so beautiful about our dynamic was that Brooke always had a little bit more discretion than me, even in the craziest times where it’s like, “Tana, don’t f*ing say that.” And that was what made the on-camera dynamic so great and helped so much in real life. And it was like this perfect balance and stuff like that.

I think that for the first time that I personally felt ever across Cancelled felt a repercussion on my mental health of the things that I say, because for so long, even just pre-Cancelled, across all of Cancelled, I was saying anything and just keeping moving and it was negatively affecting my mental health, but I was numbing it out with drinking, all the things that I personally was saying and stuff like that.

But the first time where I was like, “Whoa, this may not be so good for me,” was right after I had come for Alyssa Violet. I had talked about my experience with Cody Ko because it went out into the world, and I had said that on stage flippantly on tour, never thinking it would go out into the world. And I was going everywhere in public and people had so much to say, and I couldn’t open my phone at all without seeing good or bad things, just whatever. And I was like, “Whoa.” And then we did dial it back and it was okay again later. But yeah, I think even towards the end there would be moments, especially Brooke again was always better with the discretion, where we’d be on tour and she’d be like, “Actually wait, I want to stop telling this story on stage.” Just growing up, just naturally, growing up a little bit.

ALEX COOPER: That’s what I was thinking about.

TANA MONGEAU: And starting to care about other people’s—

ALEX COOPER: Lives.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And how it’s going to affect them. Because I was going to say there’s such a huge risk reward that comes with oversharing on the internet, right? The reward is the views and the people and the consumers being like, “More, more, give us more. Oh my God, this is intoxicating. Oh my God, tea drama.” But then the risk is behind the scenes you can be burning bridges and maybe fing with people’s lives a little bit. Not saying some of them didn’t deserve it, but just saying there’s relationships that are getting a little fed up in all this.

TANA MONGEAU: I couldn’t walk into a room in Hollywood without either A, feeling like everyone was afraid of me, or B — and it’s so funny, at that time too, I was still so delusional — because I would walk into a room and then some celebrity or some person would be like, “And don’t put this on your podcast.” And I would be like, “Why would they say that? Why does everyone always say that to me?” And it’s like, what, Tana?

ALEX COOPER: Next week you’re like, “So anyway, so it’s at this Hollywood—”

The Impact of Cancelled and the Community It Built

TANA MONGEAU: Yes, and just, oh my God. But I can’t stress you enough also — Cancelled saved my life in so many ways. Because as much as we’re talking about all of the crazy stuff that was said and the repercussions of that, at the same time, while all of that was happening, we also fostered this community of women that were so incredible and showed up for us everywhere and cared about what we had to say and cared about every last intricacy of our life.

And it makes me want to cry when I start to say it, but we couldn’t go anywhere for years without some girl stopping us and saying, “The Cancelled podcast saved my life and changed my life and made me feel like I’m maybe more of a wild girl,” or “I had a shitty relationship with my mom and it transferred into my love life,” or all of these things. I don’t ever want to look at it through a bad lens because, you know.

ALEX COOPER: No, you made a lot of people feel seen.

TANA MONGEAU: And I think my life had just changed so drastically. I’ll never forget the Cancelled episode where I came home from Hawaii. Makoa was in my living room. He didn’t know anything about my life, and he had just flown out, and he was down to take a gamble. We’d had Meghan Trainor on, and I remember I was watching Makoa meet Meghan Trainor. And then we shoot another episode, and I sit down across from Brooke, and I’m like, “I just met the love of my life.”

And I still was very chaotic as a person and just in a very dark time — of drinking and substance abuse and all of my traumas culminating together to make me this person that I hated myself. But life started to change, and I started to want to go to Hawaii more and started caring less about feeling this need to come online and go on a rampage about someone or something, or foster the lore in LA, at the Hollywood parties and all the things.

Approaching Internet Drama Differently

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, how now, you sitting here — how has it changed the way that you approach involving yourself in internet drama or talking on other people’s situations or your own personal situation?

TANA MONGEAU: What I think it is now is obviously a lot of discretion, like we’ve been talking about, where I’ll go on a rant and me and TikTok drafts are like this, okay? I will film something, I will draft it, I will think about it, and a lot of times it won’t see the light of day.

But even with BrandSafe, I’ve really been thinking about that because it’s an unrealistic standard to say that I will never ever speak on things happening on the internet again, right? But if there’s not a bigger lesson there — like, even right now I saw something online where this girl is going extremely viral for her 50-day bender. She’s a college girl, and a lot of people have a lot to say about her — 50 days, she’s doing day 1, day 2, day 3 of just being on this bender, and people are starting this whole conversation about it. And I’m like, okay, that’s an internet thing I would talk about on BrandSafe because I think there’s so much to be said about bender culture, just how much alcohol is glamorized — the party girl and all of those things is so glamorized when in reality that’s fostering alcoholism for life that could have a lot of repercussions, and a digital footprint for jobs that could have a lot of repercussions.

I think now I really don’t care to talk about pop culture and drama stuff unless either A, I’m really passionate, or B, there’s a bigger picture. And I used to almost feel like I had to garner something to say, I had to come up with something to say about something.

ALEX COOPER: And it’s like, why add more noise.

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah, if there’s not a bigger — maybe there’s a bigger conversation about how it was too mad once again. But I just don’t feel the need to be commenting on every single thing.

ALEX COOPER: That’s such an interesting point too, because in talking about the double standard — did you ever feel like, because of how much people were literally pausing episodes of you and Brooke and being like, “Oh my God, at this point you could tell that this one doesn’t really laugh at that joke, so they must be in a fight,” or “She gave her kind of an interesting weird look, they must be in a fight” — did you personally ever feel like you had to start to perform in a way of like, “Oh, make sure I’m smiling a lot,” or “Make sure I’m XYZ to appease all the naysayers?”

TANA MONGEAU: I do feel like in the beginning of Cancelled, not only was I just so hammered that I was just crazy and had just come off of the “do anything for views” mentality — that’s who I was. Whereas by the end, especially in becoming sober, you start to look at things through a lens of like, “I know if I say this thing this way that people are going to say things this way,” and fostering such a polarizing comment section and stuff like that.

And I think that yeah, it did just make me sad where I was like, it does suck — and maybe that’s also just growing older as well. Like, by the end of it, she’s getting married and I’m so happy with Makoa and spending so much more time in Hawaii and I’m sober as all f*ing hell, so I’m just seeing everything so clearly. By the end of it, you feel more types of ways about the way the internet is going to pick everything apart. You start to overthink. I think that’s exhausting. I became an overthinker. I became an anxious person. I developed OCD a little bit for the first time in my life in the sober journey, just the scrutiny—

ALEX COOPER: The scrutiny that you guys were getting — that would make sense of how it could make you paranoid.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

Life After Cancelled: Friendship Beyond the Podcast

ALEX COOPER: Now that you guys don’t work together anymore and you could just be friends, how has that dynamic changed between you two?

TANA MONGEAU: I think that it is so, so cool. And I know that’s just such a silly flippant thing to say, but I think there’s a big part of me that when I walk out of what Cancelled was and now see the old clips on my timeline and stuff, I look at those two girls and I’m just so deeply, deeply proud of them for going through all of that. And even just our own personal struggles — she wasn’t an alcoholic and all of these different things, our own personal struggles. I’m just so proud of the lives that we were able to create for ourselves.

And this is going to sound so stupid, but right now she has these cameras in her backyard where they see all the bunnies. There are bunnies in her backyard, and I’ll just see her post about her bunnies in her backyard, and I just — I don’t know how to explain it. It’s so light and stupid, but it’s such a big metaphor. You’re just chilling at home, your cortisol isn’t on 10, and you’re excited about these bunnies. And that’s f*ing awesome.

ALEX COOPER: But you’re like, “This is what we deserve at this point.” Not to be stressed and have everyone reading into every single thing we’re doing. It just got too much.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes. I’m genuinely so grateful for the other f*ing side for both of us. But I also feel like when I say that, that doesn’t mean that I didn’t love that side too. I think it’s funny — as I’ve been doing a lot of press across the last couple of weeks, I’ve noticed how many people are sitting me down and trying to get me to say something, trying to build this narrative. And even just the way that in doing written interviews, people will still misconstrue the things that you’re saying. And I’m just like, “You’re not going to get that from me.”

I even just noticed myself right now — I’m talking to you and I’m saying we’re on the other side, and then I’m immediately being like, “But that doesn’t mean I didn’t love that side.” And it almost does make me a little more defensive because I’m like, you’re not ever going to say that I didn’t love doing Cancelled.

ALEX COOPER: And you loved it. Period, end of story.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes. And we got to grow up across it, and I’m excited to be still growing up and touching the goddamn grass.

ALEX COOPER: She loves the grass. From your now lived experience — and I’m not actually even just talking about you and Brooke, just your whole career, having friends in the industry and different interpersonal dynamics with women — what is your interpretation now in this phase of your life of why society is so fixated on creating competition between women?

Women Supporting Women & The Double Standard

TANA MONGEAU: I, to be honest with you, Alex, I don’t know. I don’t know if people are projecting things that they have felt or whatever, or if there is just this internalized misogyny that we will forever have to work through, or if people just want that, want to see that for entertainment purposes, or what it is.

And it’s not even just competition always, it’s just simple things that women do. Even the businesswoman of it all, if you’re loud on what you want, or if you want to direct your team and direct your employees, no one would even blink their eyes if a man did that. I want to forever be the voice for that. And I feel like I’ve always been that way in my career, even from Storytime.

Even at that time, my self-worth was so low. I didn’t, for a long time, up until this era, really look at myself as a role model at all. I couldn’t. I didn’t like myself enough or believe in myself enough. But now when I look back at my career, I think one of the messages that I was always trying to say is that society wants a woman to shut the f* up so badly. And we have to band together as women and double and triple and quadruple down on the fact that no, we’re not.

ALEX COOPER: You’re so right, Tana. And I had shared that with you at lunch. I feel like I keep having the same conversation with people, like you and Michelle Obama.

TANA MONGEAU: It’s so incredible though. I love Michelle Obama.

ALEX COOPER: No, it’s literally— she’s God. She’s God. But it’s like, I feel like I’ve had this— got Shonda Rhimes, Kerry Washington, Ellen Pompeo, Jane Goodall. I’ve had so many conversations with so many women who have come forward to be like, “Guys, we all know this now.”

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And now what? And I feel like that’s what I’m trying to figure out in my own journey. I shared that with you at lunch, of like, what is the next iteration— I think we’re all aware of the double standard. I think we’re all aware of how we love to pit women against women and how it’s such an easy narrative. So why is nothing changing? And I think that’s kind of—

TANA MONGEAU: It’s almost getting worse. It’s almost getting so much worse with the short-form content. Just every day. That’s why I really don’t— I think people would be surprised to know that I really am not opening and scrolling TikTok. I post—

ALEX COOPER: I deleted the app.

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah, now and again. But it makes me so sad when I open it up and it’s like, “What new woman are we hating today?” And then I scroll and it’s like, “You need to buy this thing,” or your self-worth is low and you need to buy this thing to fill this unfillable void. Consume humorism, the conspiring against everything. It’s like, Jim Carrey is probably not a clone, and Selena Gomez is also probably not a clone, and we’ll never know, so why are we spending our time on that when we could all band together and talk about all the actual problems in the world?

Privacy, Intention Over Attention

ALEX COOPER: Let’s talk about privacy though, because I feel like in this new era with you, there has been a clear shift. We’re talking about getting involved less in drama, not scrolling as much, not participating maybe as much, and actually going out, touching grass, sharing a little bit less of your life in a way that feels invasive maybe. Having done it for so long and living for views and the game, how does it feel? Weird?

TANA MONGEAU: I want to say it’s just different. I think that the first time I ever found a form of therapy was sitting down in front of a cracked iPhone 5 and filming a YouTube video and seeing the comments and the people. It was the first time I’d ever felt seen. It was the first time I’d ever felt heard. It was the first time, point blank, I didn’t want to kill myself when I found that through the camaraderie with my viewers.

And I always say to my girls out there, our relationship isn’t that parasocial because I’ve shared it all. Obviously, if you’re showing up to my front door, we might have to have a talk, okay? But our relationship isn’t parasocial because I’ve shared it all. And we have these same issues, whether it’s familial issues or sobriety issues, or becoming a good person, not just being born one.

And I think I will always share that. And if anything, I think that Brand Safe is the most vulnerable I’ve ever been. It’s not that I’m just going full private bot, consumer Brand Safe mode. If anything, I’m sharing more about my childhood and more about these things that are going in my book and more about how the industry f*ed me over.

I think it’s just different. There is more privacy and discretion in all of the things that I’m sharing, and I’m trying to— again, it’s intention versus attention. And it’s a great switch though.

Even right now, as soon as I’m done with Call Her Daddy, I’m getting on a plane to Hawaii for like 3 weeks, and I’m just going to go sit at my place there and I’m going to shoot some solo episodes on the podcast, and I’m going to talk my shit and still giggle, but it’s just different. And I’m excited about that.

Also, before I was doing so much in LA, and then I had so much to talk about, about what I was doing in LA. And now it’s like I’m more in such a reflective, recalibrated period where I’m not really trying to just personally garner so much more lore. If anything, I’m looking back on so much, and I’m looking back on it kind of out of the woods.

And that was what I wanted this podcast to be, was to feel like 2 AM conversations with me and from everywhere. I think I will forever be the most inspired at 2 AM. That comes from being a Vegas girl. I’m a nighttime person. I’m the most inspired then. And now it can be 2 AM and I can be stoned in bed with Makoa, talking about our views on life and parenting and all these random things. And just that freedom is what defines this era now for me.

Sobriety: Over a Year and a Half

ALEX COOPER: Sobriety. How long have you been sober?

TANA MONGEAU: A little over a year and a half.

ALEX COOPER: Congratulations.

TANA MONGEAU: Thank you.

ALEX COOPER: It’s amazing.

TANA MONGEAU: It’s the best.

ALEX COOPER: That was so beautiful. Someone came up to us while we were having lunch in the industry and was just like, “Oh my God, you are such an inspiration. I’ve now gotten sober.” And that moment, it was so cool to watch that.

TANA MONGEAU: Very different from all of the moments you and I had had in the past.

ALEX COOPER: Very different from that Catch dinner. But I want to talk about how that decision— you had built such a party girl image, and that was your brand. Was there any part of you that was like, “Do I just self-sacrifice in order to keep the brand going?”

TANA MONGEAU: Yes, I was self-sacrificing for a long time unknowingly. And absolutely, my identity was so deeply intertwined with being that version of myself. It was one of the biggest transformative periods of my life for that reason, because I was like, “Oh my God, no one is going to listen to me.”

I deeply believed these ideologies that no one was going to listen to me, no one was going to care. I wasn’t going to be interesting, I wasn’t going to be funny, I wasn’t going to be social, I wasn’t going to be all of the things, and I was going to lose everything that I had amassed had I become sober and boring. I thought sober equated to boring. I thought sober equated to unfunny. I thought sober equated to so many things. And I thought that being the girl with the testimony was corny. I thought that it was like, “Oh my God, how embarrassing,” and just all those things.

And the reality of it all was that being the girl with the testimony and the girl who loves being sober is the coolest thing in the world. And it was very cool in the beginning to start seeing that as well.

Brooke and I were doing a meet and greet in Amsterdam. And this girl came up to me, tears in her eyes, they were so blue, they were so piercing. She grabs my hands and she looks at me and she says, “I want you to know my parents would not have a daughter if it wasn’t for you, and you got me sober.” And it was just this moment, and we hugged each other, and it was just this moment where I started to realize, now not only have I done this for myself, and the fans are so f*ing amazing and reassuring me that they do care about anything that I have to say, and that all these ideologies were true, but also that I’m helping this generation believe that you can be sober and still dynamic and interesting and still have fun.

That’s another huge thing. You think all my friends are drinking and I’m not going to make new friends, and I’m not going to have any fun in these environments anymore, and all these things.

ALEX COOPER: It’s not true.

TANA MONGEAU: I wish I had just done it sooner, but I couldn’t. Poor thing.

How Sobriety Changed Her Relationships

ALEX COOPER: How did getting sober affect your relationships?

TANA MONGEAU: It made them so much better. Jesus Christ. I became a person I was proud of. I don’t think I was ever a person that I was proud of. I don’t think I was a friend, a businesswoman, the girlfriend, anything that I was proud of. And that did help so much with Makoa and also Amari and all my friends, where it’s like, “Wow, I’m doing things with them now that I’m going to remember forever.” And it’s so meaningful. I get to do all these meaningful things, and I get to show up for them, and I get to just be this person that I always wanted to be, but my traumas were holding me back.

ALEX COOPER: Did it end any relationships for you? Because you’re in LA, and I’m sure partying was a huge source of relationships for certain dynamics.

Healing, Family, and Finding Real Love

TANA MONGEAU: Yes, I almost felt like I was like an E! Network casting director, and I was recasting eras of my life. I was like, you’re out, you’re in, you’re out. Because you wake up. You wake up and you start seeing your life, and it’s no longer in black and white.

For so long, I think that I cared so much— it’s not that I actively chose to care, but I was choosing entertainment value over morality. Like, if you are a good time and we’re getting drunk together and whatever, that was as far as it went for me. And I don’t think that I had the capacity to— I was trying to keep myself alive, you know what I mean? So it’s like I wasn’t caring, I couldn’t, I didn’t have the bandwidth to really care about morals and all of these people around me and all of these things.

And I woke up and I realized I outgrew so much, and that’s okay, you know. And it’s no bad blood to any of those people. It’s like, I hope you go, maybe you need to also get sober, and I hope that you also build a beautiful life for yourself, but it’s not going to be from my living room, you know.

ALEX COOPER: Your boyfriend, Makoa, before meeting him, you had kind of talked about unhealthy behaviors that you were obviously so used to in relationships. What were some of those that you would maybe tolerate in previous romantic relationships?

TANA MONGEAU: God, and shout out to my birth father, right? I think that I didn’t realize this at the time, but my childhood made me believe that love was something you had to earn, and that love was a roller coaster, that in these low moments, you were just working for the high ones again.

And toxic love is so similar to me to addiction, to drug addiction, because you’re in these lows and you’re chasing the next hit of the highs. And I didn’t believe that someone could love me unless I had to work for it and earn it. And it fostered such toxic relationships and attachments. A lot of unrequited love, where I loved people who maybe didn’t love me back because I was just so happy to have that attention or that thing I could fight for or whatever that is.

And it really wasn’t until I met Makoa that I realized how my ideals towards love were so toxic. And the first year of our relationship was also him patiently sitting beside me while I unlearned a lot of things and had to become a different partner that I had never been before.

ALEX COOPER: Dude, that’s so real when you have someone who is not used to the toxic, but they’re able to be patient and a rock enough to hold the space for you too. And he’s like, “I’m not going anywhere,” or like, “Why would I do that? Why are you thinking I would do that?” And you’re like, “I don’t know. Oh my God.”

And you look back at your past— and you are not on speaking terms with either of your parents?

TANA MONGEAU: No.

ALEX COOPER: When did— and did that— what happened with that lawsuit?

The Lawsuit and Going No Contact

TANA MONGEAU: Well, that lawsuit was crazy. I’ve talked about it a decent amount, but it was actually— it was funny. It was right around the time that you and I did our episode. I woke up one day to my parents suing me for slander for what I had said about them on my MTV show.

And it was just very funny to me because the MTV show, to me, was like rainbows and butterflies in comparison to what my actual childhood was like. I think I detailed maybe -0.00001% of what my childhood was actually like on that show. So for them to be suing me for slander for that, I’m like, the gall, the wherewithal, you know.

And then they had a pro bono lawyer, which meant they had no money, which meant that the lawyer only got paid if they won the case. So they’re fighting this huge case, and it was the most hands-down traumatizing period of my life. It was.

But it did reaffirm to me, because I think that from the moment I got my first AdSense check, that’s all I was to them— that money. And that’s why my 18th birthday was the greatest day of my life, because from 15 to 18, it was just tumultuous fighting for what I had earned. And they didn’t believe in me. They were narcissists to the core, so they didn’t believe in me at all. They were telling me, “Don’t make this YouTube channel, you’re embarrassing, why are you doing this,” whatever. And I’m like, I’m trying to get out. I believe in me, you know? And then the second I make money, it’s like, “She’s a star because she’s just like us.” And I’m like, no— but that’s narcissism. They’re sick, you know?

ALEX COOPER: Of course.

TANA MONGEAU: And it did reaffirm to me that that was all they ever wanted— that money. And it was able to be a finite point for me because that was the moment that I finally went no contact.

And it wasn’t until we were no contact— I ended up settling in that case though, which sucked for me really bad. I was talking about this actually with Amari yesterday in the car, weirdly. Basically I was not mentally strong enough at the time. And it was during COVID, and I will always be very thankful for that because it was all via Zoom. I can imagine how much more the trauma would have been had it been in person and I had to face them.

I had to call every person and teacher and everyone from my childhood to get them to try to make cases for me, and medical subpoenas and all of these things. And then it would have gone public, and I think that I couldn’t have handled that. And their lawyers were so awful, you know what I mean? My dad was in the Vietnam War, and they’re sitting there saying, “You really think that everyone’s going to believe you, who just does stuff for views, over a war veteran? Do you think that?” And then that’s the pain of being like, what if no one ever believes me?

And finally I came to the conclusion with my lawyers that I was going to kill myself, whether intentionally or— I just overdosed at that time too— whether intentionally or unintentionally. This wasn’t sustainable for me, sanity-wise, to continue to do it. So I had to write them a big fat f*ing check. And that hurts in so many ways too, because it was everything that I had earned so hard trying to get away from them.

And I look back at that now sometimes with a little bit of regret, because me now would fight it. Me now would fight it. But I wasn’t me now, and I wasn’t capable. And it is what it is, I guess.

ALEX COOPER: But I’m so sorry though, Tana, because hearing that, it’s like knowing where you were at in your life at that point, having met you and recorded with you and everything that you were going through. The fact that you had to write the check in order to walk away, it kills you inside because it’s almost accepting defeat, but it’s not. It’s like, just listen to what you just said— it allowed you to keep your sanity and your life, and you had to get away from those f*ing people.

Making Peace With the Void

TANA MONGEAU: And I had to just stomach that— that’s what I was to you. You’re never going to take accountability. And I think I spent so much of my life living in this hope that they would wake up one day and take accountability, that they would wake up one day and be the parents I wanted them to be. And it just wasn’t the truth. So I think that everything happened for a reason in that way, to protect me from it.

And it is funny, even now in this era of life, I just spoke to them for the last and final time since then because my birth mother is about to die. And that was a big thing. It was so interesting— across doing Brand Safe, I’m doing all these things that I’m so happy about, but I’m going through one of the deepest struggles of my life because no contact is one thing, but death is so finite. And knowing that we just never got that, and we never will in this lifetime.

But I worked through that. I got a lot of therapy through that, and I’m still working through it actively. And it is one of those things where it’s an unfillable void. And I spent so long trying to fill the void with everything Los Angeles and everywhere else had to offer. And eventually you have to make friends with that void and know that it’s always a shadow in the room.

You see the parents at the park with their kid and it breaks your heart a little bit. Makoa was just teaching me how to ride a bike and it ended up bringing up all this trauma for me of like, I never got to learn this. And it was this big metaphor for my life that I was just robbed of all these things. Because in writing my book, I’m almost noticing that I had to be an adult and then now I’m getting to be a child. It’s almost this Benjamin Button effect of like I had to raise myself and figure it all out, and I was robbed of a lot.

But I made peace with it. I really— I’m going to be a great f*ing kickass mom.

ALEX COOPER: You are.

TANA MONGEAU: And I can’t wait.

ALEX COOPER: You also have made so much of yourself, and from what I know from the friends that you keep and your boyfriend and the people around you, there are so many people so proud of you.

TANA MONGEAU: That’s very sweet.

ALEX COOPER: But I understand the feeling of wanting that from your parents. That’s the ultimate feeling when your parents are proud. But also recognizing that if they’re not capable of seeing how incredible you are and just seeing you as dollar signs, then they can go f* themselves.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And I think—

Found Family and a New Chapter

TANA MONGEAU: And thank God for Amari’s family. I don’t know where I would be. They took me in and they showed me holidays can be a day where you aren’t screaming at the top of your lungs. I always say that they have dedicated their lives to adopting me and putting Band-Aids on the wounds they didn’t create. Effortlessly, effortlessly, effortlessly— they give all of their time. They made me understand what it’s like to have a mother and a father and siblings and love, and that family love is unconditional.

And I’m going home for Mother’s Day right after this, and I’m so grateful for this life. I wouldn’t change a damn thing, you know?

ALEX COOPER: And it’s so impressive what you’ve built. It’s also so incredible. I think people love seeing you with Makoa because you can just feel how light you are in that relationship. And I think we obviously have seen a lot of your relationships in the past and the rapper phase.

TANA MONGEAU: Baby, you were never marrying the rapper. Baby, there is no plane.

ALEX COOPER: Literally no. But how do you think Makoa and you and your life— what do you guys talk about for your future? Because you just said you’re going to be a great mom one day. Have you talked about marriage? Have you talked about kids?

Embracing Growth, Gratitude, and New Beginnings

TANA MONGEAU: Even as I’m talking about all these memories, even as I was saying, as we were just talking about not having my parents there to celebrate or be there for me or anything. I remember there was this night on the Cancelled tour where we had just done this show to thousands and thousands of people, and we had ended one of the runs, and it was our last show. And I got back to the hotel room and everyone else is celebrating, and I just got in bed and I sobbed because I was like, it’s sad to me that there are moments that I wish I had parents, that they could have been there and seen this and were capable of that.

And he would just hold me and tell me everything is going to be okay. And the way he’s extended his incredible, huge, awesome, perfect— they’re perfect, I love them so much— his family to me and made me feel like he’ll always say, “You have family in my family, they love you like their own as well.” And even when I had to call and talk to my parents for the last time kind of recently, he sat there right beside me and he was sobbing. He was sobbing as if it was his own pain. I can’t really talk about that one without starting to cry because it’s like, you love me so deeply and so intrinsically that you are sobbing next to me because you feel the pain for me.

He is the best man I’ve ever met, and I love him so much. I’m just so excited for our future and our life together. I really am. And it’s very cool just talking about getting married and having babies and how much fun— even Buster, our foster dog, ended up being this crazy— like, we’ve been parenting little Buster and talking about how different we are in our parenting styles and how those will come together. And it is funny, the second you’re in a happy, healthy relationship, you’re in the grocery store and the checkout person is like, “When are you getting married?” Like, no one can stop.

I want to do that all at a point in my life where I can dedicate my life to it. I think some people can just pop out kids and catch a vibe and whatever, and that’s amazing. But I think with everything I’ve been through, I want to be so intentional. I want to read every book on parenting. I want to know everything because I will die trying to be the mother that I never had. And when we’re ready, we’re going to be so ready.

ALEX COOPER: Tana, I’m excited. I am so happy for you. I just like seeing how you light up with Makoa, and not even just in the relationship, but yourself, like how clear-headed you are about also how you do deserve to be selfish in this new phase of your life. Like you do deserve to just enjoy it, enjoy your boyfriend, enjoy your life, enjoy your new podcast, enjoy all the things.

TANA MONGEAU: Peace, peace, a whole lot of peace.

ALEX COOPER: Just have peace, quiet, grass, trees, nature, Hawaii. Yeah, like you deserve it because you’ve been through the fing mud in a lot of ways, literally. And I think you’ve done such an incredible job the way that you’ve handled yourself. And I agree, it’s like, I know that everything you have done on the internet isn’t perfect. I have not been perfect either. But what you have made of what you were given and what you have now come to be, I think that’s why also people fing love you so much. It’s like, we’ve seen every version, and this brand safe era, it couldn’t be less boring. I’m thrilled. I’m like, what’s she going to do? Thank you so much. It’s really cool to see you in this era.

Brand Safe: A New Era

TANA MONGEAU: Thank you so, so, so much for saying that, because that’s the thing is I think I’ll always be unfiltered and all of these things, and I’m so excited to have so much fun in this era. But it is just different. Even right now as we’re talking, I’m just thinking about all of these different things. I did make all the mistakes. I think I had to learn morality my way and a lot later. I definitely did a lot of crazy stuff, but that’s why I’m so thankful for all of the eras, because this is the first time in my life where I am going to sit down and I want to help the girlies in every single way, to just be like, with whatever cards you are dealt— that’s what brand safe means to me, is that you can wake up at any point and you can decide that you want to be different and perceive differently.

ALEX COOPER: And you can do that as a woman, because I think people are so uncomfortable when a woman evolves. It means like, “Oh, so the other version of you was fake.” I experienced that so much when it was like I didn’t want to talk about sex forever, and then people are like, “Oh, so was that or this?” And it’s like, wait, but what if both can be true?

TANA MONGEAU: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: What if the party era of Tana was so who she was and now she’s ready to evolve and change? And isn’t that the goal of life?

TANA MONGEAU: Yes. And it’s such a societal pressure towards women to feel like once you’ve sat in one bucket that you must croak that same bucket, and it’s just not a fact and it’s not true. And I’m so excited to just continue to hammer that message in.

Launching Brand Safe

ALEX COOPER: Episode 1 is out now of Brand Safe. How does it feel to start this new project, IP? Yeah, era, like all of it.

TANA MONGEAU: I think it’s so cool because I’ve been saying this to everyone, like in our internal meetings, we’re like, this is the first time in my life where if this shit gets 7 views, I’m stoked on the 7 girlies who still care what I have to say. And I’m getting on a plane to Hawaii, and it’s going to be so great to just sit there and look at what we’ve done.

And I’m so grateful for my team. I cannot stress that enough. So much changed across these past 6 months where I wanted girls and gays only. I wanted women. I wanted no man in power. We have Kyle, he’s our only straight, and we love— it’s the girls, gays, and Kyle. But I’m so proud of these people. I look at all of them and I’m like, I wouldn’t be able to do this without you. And I’m so inspired by you. So I’m so grateful to be working with such good, honest people that I crafted from all of these different eras of my life and got to have them together.

And I’m just genuinely so deeply grateful that there is a girl out there somewhere who sees herself in me, whether that’s the parents, whether that’s the sobriety, whether that’s the thousand million eras and lives and lore and crazy girl to maybe little less crazy girl pipeline that are supporting me and want to listen. I’m just— it is overwhelming gratitude. I think my team is like, “Tana, stop thanking us like that every day.” I’m like, I’m just so grateful for what this is and gets to be.

The Beauty of Growing Up

ALEX COOPER: I think that it’s such a testament also to just how lovely it is to grow up. As women, we’re so scared to not be in our early 20s and be this youthful little thing, and I’m so happy I’m not there anymore.

TANA MONGEAU: Oh my God, you couldn’t pay me a billion dollars. You couldn’t— there’s nothing to get me to go back to being any version. I think that step one to accepting aging as a woman is watching Sex and the City, because they are the perfect example that you can throw on a cunty Manolo Blahnik and continue to thrive with more wisdom as you get older.

And it’s so cool to use all of these experiences, because that’s what your early 20s are for— falling down and getting up a thousand times, being an absolute idiot, moron, and making a million mistakes, and dating the gremlins, and being too drunk, and all those things. But it’s so cool, and it’s not always easy. I think 27 for me was a huge year of feeling anxious and transforming from one version of myself into another. And it was the first time in my life that I did feel so much insecurity and all of those things. But now that I’m here, it’s like, I’m so grateful.

ALEX COOPER: It’s such a testament. I agree to just everything I feel like we talked about today, starting this on two women going to lunch together and being so open in a way that, again, I think we couldn’t have been in our early 20s with each other. I think we said that a million times at lunch just being like, “Oh my God, I can’t imagine us having this level of depth and conversation together.” And I think it took time.

And I think that’s to anyone watching, because I know I have very young listeners and then I have older listeners. We have Gen Z and Millennial here. It’s like, it is so fun in your early 20s, but also if you’re in the trenches and you’re feeling f*ing shit right now, just know— guys, we are telling you, it gets so good. Like, it gets so good. I’m not to brag, but it gets so much better. It really does. So enjoy it, but don’t be stressed. Don’t be stressed.

TANA MONGEAU: Yes. And just the mistakes and all of those things— I can’t stress to people enough, in your early 20s you have to give yourself such an immense amount of grace because you were low-key just a child. You’re just figuring shit out. I made every possible mistake. I was so many versions of myself that I wasn’t proud of, and I would beat myself up for everything. But the grace is so important because all of those lessons were so tangible, and now they are all so applicable to the life that I’m living and the life that I feel at home in.

Hair Journeys and Hard-Won Wisdom

ALEX COOPER: But like, why do the 22-year-olds not have the hair issues that we had?

TANA MONGEAU: Alex Cooper, I— everything. We were really figuring it all out.

ALEX COOPER: Silver purple hair. I showed up to your home. What? No, no.

TANA MONGEAU: And I’m saying this to myself, I’m not— I think that you’re beautiful, but put the purple shampoo down. And mine would always be like that, the extensions would go super purple and then the other hair was like this weird brown gray.

ALEX COOPER: The tracks in my head, it was so bad. We couldn’t figure it out. But now all these 22-year-olds, they’re like, they fully have hair. They all—

TANA MONGEAU: All the 22-year-olds have hair. What is the bit? Jack-Jack, is that his name? I was Jack-Jack for literally years of my life. Being bald is not—

ALEX COOPER: Cabbage Patch Kid in blue. It’s like a little dinghy and then just tracks, tracks, tracks. I’m so grateful that we figured out our tones. I really think this is your tone.

TANA MONGEAU: Thank you. Oh yeah, I knew I’d get it.

ALEX COOPER: I feel like we figured out, we went a little darker. Mm-hmm.

Wrapping Up

TANA MONGEAU: But we, and I was fighting that like the plague. Like, oh my God. It’s like I could have posted a TikTok with like a toe missing and someone would’ve been like, “Well, this would be easier if you were brunette.” And I was like, I was fighting it so hard and they had a point.

ALEX COOPER: It looks phenomenal. I love you. I am so happy we did this, Tana.

TANA MONGEAU: I’m so happy we did this too, and I just can’t thank you enough, Alex. Like I said this in the beginning of this episode, but right now as I’m doing so much of this press, it would have been so easy for you to sit down and it would have gotten the clicks and all of the things to try to flip or spin some narrative or make something. And I’m just so grateful that you really wanted to sit down and just have a conversation like woman to woman about the things we want to talk about and treating me like a person and not just a headline. And that goes back to our intention versus attention. And I’m just beyond grateful for this conversation.

ALEX COOPER: What I did say to you, and we can end on this also, it’s like, it is so hard to be a woman in this industry. And I am not complaining, we are so beyond privileged, it’s fing insane. But it is fing hard to sustain a career as a woman in this industry. That is just a fact.

TANA MONGEAU: And I think that we have the platform to spread such an important message to all of the women out there who are dealing with all of the intricacies of just being a woman completely.

ALEX COOPER: And I also think it’s like, we in positions of power or whatever, considering where you look at it from, we both are saying like, “No guys, it is f*ing hard.” So I can only imagine how many other women are going through this at many different levels.

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: But I do think that’s something I really took from our lunch. It’s so nice to have a friend in this industry, but it is so nice to have someone that you’re like, “Oh, you’re going to be around forever, Tana, I f*ing know it.” And bitch, I’m planning on it too, so why not?

TANA MONGEAU: Cockroach energy.

ALEX COOPER: Cockroach energy. Ride together and lift each other up and be like, “I got you, whatever you need.”

TANA MONGEAU: And I think that had we tried to form a friendship in different eras, the intentions would have been different. It would have been like, “People love these views.” And like, at least for me, and all of things, I would have been f*ing no-showing shit and late and drunk and hammered. And now it’s pure things. It is so beautiful to foster a pure, beautiful, new start for us. And I love this new start.

ALEX COOPER: I kind of love this too.

TANA MONGEAU: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, Brand Safe out now. Go binge her. It’s going to be every Saturday. Yes.

TANA MONGEAU: Come hell or high water, she’s not going away.

ALEX COOPER: I will be consistent. Tana Mongeau, I love you. Thank you for coming on Call Her Daddy.

TANA MONGEAU: Thank you so, so much for having me, Alex Cooper.

ALEX COOPER: So good.

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