Read the full transcript of Vincent Todd Tolman’s interview on Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown, May 12, 2026.
Editor’s Notes: In this profound episode of Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown, Mayim and Jonathan Cohen sit down with Vincent Todd Tolman, a man who was declared clinically dead for over 45 minutes after an accidental overdose. Tolman recounts his extraordinary near-death experience, describing how he watched his own body being placed in a body bag from above and met a divine guide who shared ten life-altering messages for humanity. Now a best-selling author of The Light After Death, Tolman discusses the “miracle” of his return and the spiritual lessons he learned about love, consciousness, and the true nature of our reality. This conversation offers a unique look at what lies beyond our physical existence and provides a “PR campaign for heaven” to help us navigate the struggles of life on Earth.
Welcome and Introduction
MAYIM BIALIK: Hi, I’m Mayim Bialik.
JONATHAN COHEN: And I’m Jonathan Cohen.
MAYIM BIALIK: And welcome to our breakdown. Jonathan, that was a pregnant pause that I just inserted because I don’t know that I can do justice to what you’re about to experience here.
JONATHAN COHEN: I’ll give you the Cliff Notes.
MAYIM BIALIK: Give us the Cliff Notes, Jonathan.
JONATHAN COHEN: This man defies all medical explanation. He was dead for between 45 minutes and an hour and a half, and he came back with an unbelievable experience of what it is like in the afterlife, how souls get here, what we’re doing on Earth, and how to free yourself from the struggles that you’re experiencing.
Introducing Vincent Todd Tolman
MAYIM BIALIK: Vincent Todd Tolman is our guest today. He wrote The Light After Death: My Journey to Heaven and Back. And yeah, as Jonathan just said, Vinnie, as he goes by Vinnie, died in the bathroom of a Dairy Queen when he was 25 years old. No one knew he was in there. By the time they found him, his body was cold. There was no pulse. They called a time of death and they zipped him up in a body bag.
However, he was watching the entire scene unfold from some sort of place above the Dairy Queen, is how he describes it. He ended up not even realizing that it was his body until he was almost to the hospital, zipped up in a body bag. Not only did he come back, he was then placed in a coma, brain dead for 3 days. In that time, he experienced an interaction with the world after this one. He came back with 10 very specific messages, reentered his body, and began to live a life as someone with a completely different experience of reality, of consciousness, and of the quantum realm that we are all in. We are thrilled to have Vinnie here in person. Vincent Todd Tolman, welcome to The Breakdown.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Thank you.
Preparing for the Story
MAYIM BIALIK: We’ve heard a variety of NDEs, and we’re very, very eager to hear the uniqueness of yours. So before we kind of tell the story or have you tell the story, if you had to tell people one thing that they should prepare to understand from the journey that you went on, what would it be?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: To understand that what you’re thinking is real is not, and that there’s a whole other reality that you were tapped into as a child that you can tap into as an adult.
MAYIM BIALIK: I think where we should start is, tell us how you died.
How It Happened: The Supplement
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Well, I was an amateur bodybuilder. This is back in 2003. It wasn’t like anything I made money off of, but it was definitely a major hobby working out twice a day. Me and one of my best friends, we were doing that, and we found this supplement back then that would help your muscle recovery happen like twice as fast. So when you’re building muscle, you rip it by lifting, tear that muscle, it repairs itself bigger. And that’s how you bulk up.
So we were in a bulk up on our arms, on our chest, on our back. And so we were doing these really heavy routines and we want to do them every day and not wait for the recovery. And you could do that, or you could have back when this product was still legal. And so we ordered probably maybe 30 bottles across a year and a half.
And all of a sudden it was so popular, couldn’t get it anywhere anymore. You’d have to go on a waiting list no matter where you ordered. And then product would show up and it would get sold for like $10 on the dollar out the back door. No one was getting their orders. So we found some from Thailand. I had lived in Thailand at one time for a while, so I thought Thailand’s safe. They have really good food and drug safety, at least in the manufacturing sector. So I thought that’s going to be pretty safe.
So we ordered a bottle, but the bottle came with all Thai writing on it and no English. So we cracked that open, we sniffed it, and it smells just like the American stuff. And it’s a liquid. You just take a liquid bottle cap. So we both just said, let’s do it. We’re going to go do a workout, go get something to eat, go see a car show, some new cars. And that was the plan for the day. And then maybe do a second workout on the way back.
MAYIM BIALIK: How big is this bottle? Like, is it like a drink? It’s like a shot?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: It’s like a 1.75. It’s not that big. And you would just take the lid to the bottle and use that lid as your measure.
MAYIM BIALIK: Got it.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: So we both did it. And right away I was like, wow, that was way sour. That was way more sour than the American stuff. And my buddy was like, yeah, that was different tasting. And right away I started feeling like cold come over my chest. And I had had surgery in the past.
MAYIM BIALIK: Oh yeah. Anesthetized. Yeah.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah. Anesthetized. I knew what that felt like, that coldness, and it felt the exact same. So I told my buddy, “Dude, this one’s way stronger than normal. So let’s go get something to eat.” ‘Cause we knew that would offset whatever, disperse it with food. It makes it so your body absorbs less.
MAYIM BIALIK: Metabolize it.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: So we went down to the closest restaurant to his house and we barely make it into the parking lot. He’s literally going to sleep while he’s driving.
MAYIM BIALIK: So you’re both feeling instant effects of this poison or whatever it is within minutes of taking it.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: So it’s very, very fast.
JONATHAN COHEN: And do you notice that he’s affected, or are you so much in your own experience that you’re like—
MAYIM BIALIK: He literally said he couldn’t drive.
The Dairy Queen
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: We were like laughing about it. We’re 25. We don’t think about death or anything. We just think we’re going to live forever. And I’m laughing like he’s kind of drunk on it. And I’m like, look, you can’t even stay awake. So I had to even put the car in park for him, ’cause he didn’t even know. He’s just like pulled up and stopped. I’m like, “Put it in park.” So I put it in park and I opened the door and I went to go step out. And all of a sudden I was like, “Whoa, gravity’s different on this.” I felt so heavy. And so I felt like I lumbered myself into the restaurant.
MAYIM BIALIK: It was a Dairy Queen.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: It was a Dairy Queen.
MAYIM BIALIK: Let’s just call it out. It’s such a— you have to say it. It was a Dairy Queen. It was a Dairy Queen.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah.
MAYIM BIALIK: Yeah.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: And for a while it was kind of the jinx Dairy Queen. They tore it down.
MAYIM BIALIK: Oh no.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah. So, you know how some Dairy Queens were back then? This is again, 2003. The bathroom is right as you walk in the door. So I went straight in that bathroom and it was a single unit. So I locked the door. And as soon as I got in there, felt like the whole world started to spin on me. And I heard this really loud pop, really loud. And the next thing I know, I can’t see anything but just black. And I feel like I’m floating. I feel like I’m warm, I’m electrical, but I’m also really cool. Like it’s this weird, untethered sensation I had never felt.
I’d never felt, and I’d done quite a bit of substances in my day. And I’m telling you, nothing was holding a candle to what I was feeling.
MAYIM BIALIK: You said you felt warm and cold and electric.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Warm and cool and electric and fluid. I felt like I was floating in fluid is what it felt like.
MAYIM BIALIK: Did you feel pain?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: No pain. And that was the first thing I noticed. I was like, “Whoa, this stuff’s really good. I can’t feel any pain.” I really— that was one of the thoughts I had in there, is like, there’s no pain.
MAYIM BIALIK: Okay, so but everything’s black.
The Out-of-Body Experience Begins
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Everything’s black. And way off, I can see this little pinprick of light, and it starts getting closer and closer and bigger and bigger. And as it gets bigger and bigger, I’m noticing it’s a movie. And I’m looking at a movie, but it’s like filmed from the ceiling down. So I’m like, why would the director film looking down? That doesn’t make any sense. And I’d worked with directors and I’d worked as a PA on some shows. And so I was like, that’s weird. Why would the DP or the director decide that let’s shoot this looking down? That’s a dumb way to shoot.
And I’m sitting there thinking that, and I start to realize, wait, that’s my buddy. And I noticed that in the movie, I was watching my buddy getting taken away and getting an ambulance called on him, loading an ambulance, and he gets taken away.
Watching From Above
MAYIM BIALIK: You are in a locked bathroom by yourself. Yeah, that’s where you fell.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: That’s where I fell.
MAYIM BIALIK: That’s where your body is. Yeah, but you’re telling me that your consciousness was outside of the bathroom, above the bathroom, and above the whole building.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah. If you were to take the apex of the building, I was in the center of the apex and I could take my—
MAYIM BIALIK: And you were watching, watching what was going on.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: And wherever my interest went, that’s where the camera focus went. So if my interest went over to a conversation I was listening to over here — by the way, I was hearing voices spoken and thoughts thought. So all voices I could hear. So the voices of anyone thinking anything within the restaurant and the voices of the conversations, I was hearing it all.
So the one that made me laugh is there’s this older gentleman with his wife. They were there getting breakfast. She was sitting there talking about her friends or a group of these ladies. And he was thinking about something not even close to that, kind of like daydreaming, letting his mind wander. And then she asked him, “Well, what do you think about that?” And he’s like, “I need to go use the bathroom.” And so he went to go try to use the bathroom.
MAYIM BIALIK: That you were— that your body was in?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: That the body was in, yeah. And so the door was locked. So he’s like, “Oh man.” So he waited a few minutes and that person wasn’t coming out.
MAYIM BIALIK: And you did not realize that was you in the bathroom?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: It wasn’t me. I was up here. I was watching everything. I was on this weird camera angle from the director, and I’m just like, “This is so weird.” And I wasn’t even focused so much on the body. I could feel there was a heaviness there, but in some way, I knew I didn’t need to look at it yet.
So I was focused on this couple. He goes back down, sits down, and she wants to pick up that conversation. He’s like, “I need to go tell the manager the bathroom’s locked.” So he went and told the manager, “I’ve tried that a couple times now.” I probably didn’t see the first time he tried it, but I know I saw at least one time, maybe two, that I saw him get up to try it. And then he went to the manager and said, “Hey, can you check? That’s been locked for a long time.”
MAYIM BIALIK: So you’re watching and hearing and experiencing all of these things that are happening outside of the bathroom where your vessel is.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yes. Yeah.
MAYIM BIALIK: So then what happens?
The Body Is Discovered
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: So then I follow. Now my focus is on him, him going to the manager, the manager going with him and tapping his key really loud on the door. Like, “Hello, anyone in there?” They didn’t hear anything. So the manager opens the door and I’m telling you, the body was right there in front of the door. And there was vomit all over the face, the stomach, the shoulders. And the weird thing for me is the neck. You know, your neck’s quite at least a little bit smaller than your jaw. It was almost wider than the jaw.
MAYIM BIALIK: Like it had swollen up.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: It had swollen so wide already. And I’m like, “That’s a bad Hollywood job. That’s not even a real body. Whoever’s doing this movie is not very good.” I remember having a thought like that.
MAYIM BIALIK: It is still not clicking for you.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: No, not even close yet. Yeah. So I can feel sadness and I can feel a sincere fear from this manager. And I heard his mom telling him in his own voice, “You know you need to get out of that job. You’re never going to make it anywhere if you don’t quit that job and go back to school and blah, blah, blah.” And he was hearing that on repeat while he was looking at all of this. And he doesn’t know what to do. And then he thinks, “Oh, I need to call 911.” So he calls to his assistant manager — this is a 16 or 17-year-old girl — tells her to call 911. Then as soon as—
MAYIM BIALIK: And they already knew they had another body that had gone to the hospital.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yes.
MAYIM BIALIK: Your friend.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah, but the people didn’t see us coming together because we didn’t. I came in first, he came in second, and he went in and collapsed on a booth and vomited in front of everybody. So he was a quick one to recognize and get out of there.
But yeah, the manager, he’s looking at this dead body and he thinks about it for a second. And I actually heard him think, “I don’t want to touch that.” So he goes to the assistant manager and says, “Give me the phone. You need to go work on the body.” Because they’re like, “Feel for a pulse.” Whatever the 911 operator was saying to do, he was speaking it to this assistant. And she got to a point where she went to touch the neck, and she felt cold and slimy. And she even said it out loud, so loud that the 911 operator heard it. And as soon as that operator heard that, she said, “Stop everything you’re doing. Lock down the room. Don’t let anyone else in. We’ve called police and medics.”
MAYIM BIALIK: “Whoever gets there first, let them have access to it.” So you’re just watching all this, and you’re looking down at this poor body that looks like a bad Hollywood job.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: You know what’s really funny is at this point, I’m like, “I think I’m in a theater.” This is probably the most comfortable theater I’ve ever been in. Because I felt so at ease, and I felt so comforted. Because this is a scary situation — I don’t know why my consciousness wasn’t putting two and two together that my real friend just got taken away. And now I’m looking at this bad Hollywood job of a body, and it just didn’t click, because me was up here.
I equate it to pulling up to a stoplight in your car, and you look over and you see your same car over there, and you see you driving it, but you’re like, “That’s not me though, I’m in this car.” And that’s what it felt like. I’m like, well, that — it was not even a possibility that it was me.
MAYIM BIALIK: So what happened next?
The Rookie Medic
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Well, one thing I don’t tell a lot of people about — right then, this other worker at the restaurant was running around, “Dead body, dead body, dead body.” And she went running back to the cook, the fry chef, and was like, “There’s a dead body back there.” And this guy had grown up in Mexico and had seen a lot of death himself. And he thought out loud, “I don’t need to see one more dead body in my life ever again.”
MAYIM BIALIK: And you heard that?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: And I heard that, yeah. And he was like, “No, no, no.” And this other young’un was just still running around trying to tell everybody there’s a dead body in there. I don’t know why — maybe her way of dealing with shock or whatever it was.
But I’m, again, just interested in what’s going on in the scene. I watch as this other ambulance pulls up. The second ambulance has 3 workers though, 3 medics. So it has 2 from the 2 front seats and has 1 rookie who is sitting in the back with the gurneys, what they call the jump seat. And I noticed that this rookie had an innocence about him. He was definitely younger than the other 2, but he had this freshness with the approach to being a medic, an EMT.
And they get on scene right away. They check vitals, nothing. They put this oxygen feeder in to try to hand pump oxygen into the lungs. No change. They recorded time of death. They put the body in a body bag. And I’m starting to realize this is a real situation, because the reaction of everyone around it — I’m noticing it’s not acting, that this is real. This is freaking people out.
I feel so bad for this guy, whoever he is. And he has a really thick neck. I just can’t remember. He has a really thick neck. And I grew up with He-Man characters. And I had a guy named Manny Faces who had a really thick neck like that. And I just kept thinking, “Oh, this poor guy looked like Manny Faces. Probably nobody could fall in love with that guy anyway. That’s probably why he’s dead.” And I’m just witnessing all of this.
And I had tried to follow my buddy’s ambulance away from the scene, but I was pulled back. It didn’t allow me to leave the building. I could still look that direction as it drove away, but I couldn’t go with it. So I was wondering, “Oh, I hope I can go with this one.” And it did allow me to go with this one. They went ahead and collected witness statements. They were there for at least another 30 minutes getting statements, getting paperwork signed by everyone.
MAYIM BIALIK: It was zipped up?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: It was already zipped up, put in the back of the ambulance. So yeah, and the rookie was tasked — his job was to sit back there, don’t touch it, and don’t let anyone else touch it. That was his only job. And so he’s sitting back there. I can hear him thinking, “Why didn’t we try this? Why don’t we try this? I just learned about this new thing we don’t do yet. Why don’t we try that?” And he’s just thinking through this little laundry list. “Why don’t we try any of these other things? I was trained that there’s a possibility we might be able to bring this guy back.” And they were like, “Nope, don’t touch it. Don’t touch it and don’t let anyone else touch it.”
And you still are thinking, who is this poor man? Poor guy. Poor bastard. That’s what I said.
JONATHAN COHEN: Poor guy that no one’s helping.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah. And I’m sitting here just not necessarily entertained, but invested now. I’m invested in what this story is. And so I watched the other two, the veteran medics, get all the paperwork they can. They’re taking their time, getting to the ambulance, and they’re like, “Okay, we’re going to such and such medical examiner.” And they plotted the route. This is back when they were using map books. So they plotted their route and they started going on their route.
MAYIM BIALIK: What’s your view now? Are you still above what’s happening?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: I’m still above all of it, but now I can go with the ambulance. I did notice I could go with that ambulance and I thought, “Oh good, I don’t have to miss out on what’s going on.”
MAYIM BIALIK: No, we don’t want you to miss a second of this.
JONATHAN COHEN: And how long from the time that you passed out in the bathroom?
MAYIM BIALIK: What time was death declared?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: So time of death was declared at a specific time and my buddy’s ambulance was called almost 50 or 55 minutes before that. So it was a good long time, but the door is locked. So the one question is, how long was I dead? Nobody knows that one.
MAYIM BIALIK: Well, sometime between you entering the DQ, right?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yes.
MAYIM BIALIK: Going into the— like, that’s the pocket of time. But we’re working on at least an hour that you are dead.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: At least an hour. Yeah.
JONATHAN COHEN: And do we know how long from the time they put you in the body bag till you’re driving in the ambulance?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: I know that it was probably at least 25 to 40 minutes because where I was, there was no time anymore. So you were just kind of watching things go.
MAYIM BIALIK: Once they zipped up the body, it was then put in the ambulance and then they collected all the witness statements because they think they have a corpse and it can just sit there, and you’re watching the whole thing happen.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah.
MAYIM BIALIK: So then whoever you are, your consciousness — I don’t know what to call it — is now in the ambulance.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yes.
MAYIM BIALIK: You’re in the body.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: I like to call it my energetic body. Because that’s what our consciousness is. It’s just energy. It’s our energetic body.
MAYIM BIALIK: You know better than we do, but yes. So you’re in the ambulance. You still don’t understand who that body is.
The Rookie Medic and the Light
VINCENT: I don’t understand it, but I noticed some very cool new thing happening. And that rookie medic, as he’s just still feeling really bad that he can’t try any of these things that he wants, he starts to glow from inside him. He literally starts to have light coming out of him. And I’m watching it just around his heart area. He gets really, really bright gold color. And I’m like, what is this? And the show that I had worked on was “Touched by an Angel.” And we would do the light above the head.
MAYIM: Yeah.
VINCENT: So I was like, that’s an odd way of doing it. How do they do that? Then I’m thinking, who’s the prop guy? Who’s the FX guy that was able to rig that light to come out of him? That’s so cool. And I’m thinking it from that perspective, like, this is neat. I’ve never seen this in a movie before.
MAYIM: No.
VINCENT: And I hear really loud as I’m having this movie nerd thought. I have this energy pass over me where I am sitting and watching this movie. I have this huge energy pass over me. And I feel it hit him. And then I hear really loud, “This one’s not dead.” Then nothing.
MAYIM: Whose voice was it?
VINCENT: I’m going to say a helper, a worker, source, whatever we want to call it.
MAYIM: Okay. But it was not your voice.
VINCENT: I would say people on this earth, if they heard that voice, they would worship it. It was powerful. You could feel that it was commanding the universe to do something.
MAYIM: Okay.
“This One’s Not Dead”
VINCENT: And this guy, this rookie, I know he heard it or felt it. Later on, I tracked him down. He said he didn’t hear it, but he said he just knew something. But I heard it really loud. And I also heard his mind kick in and say, “That’s just your imagination. Don’t get fired on your first week.”
So then we keep going down the road, like another half block or block. And now this light gets even brighter and it starts glowing all the way to his waist to about here. But it was so bright. It was like, you know how light when it hits the body, it gives like shadows — it’s giving like shadows to the top of his head because it’s so bright. Coming from down here. And I’m like, again, nerding out, that is so cool, it’s even brighter. How are they doing that? Is that like some kind of weird CG we don’t know about yet? And I’m just enamored with this simple little thing.
And then I heard again, as if another force passed over me. And I heard even louder this time. I felt like it rumbled me. And it said, “This one’s not dead.” And he heard it. I know he heard it because as soon as he heard it, he reached for the strap around the dead body and undid one strap. He unzipped the body bag from the head all the way down to about right here where there was another strap. And he was slipping his hand inside the body bag, feeling around the neck, feeling around the jaw. He was trying to get any sign of life, any sign of pulse. He even reached under the armpit, and that was kind of under the strap that was right there. He realized he couldn’t do it with the strap, so he undid the second strap, opened the body bag further. He felt in the underarm, nothing. In fact, one thing he did start — I heard him think, “Oh, rigor mortis has started.” Like, he felt stiffness or hardness in some of those muscles.
MAYIM: And like, how could this body be alive —
VINCENT: Yeah.
MAYIM: — if —
VINCENT: But yet he wasn’t going to second-guess whatever that thing was that was speaking to him. So he went to the last spot. He had to do one more strap, and that was to get down into the thigh area. And so he was feeling for the femoral artery, and he went to one direction of the femur, didn’t feel anything. He went to the other direction and pushed really hard, and he made contact with the bone in the body. He pushed that hard, and as soon as he did, there was like a spark, like a shock, and he jumped. And I jumped too, because it wasn’t me like feeling empathy towards him. I felt like somebody shocked me.
And as soon as he felt that shock, I heard his mind go into gear. This is what you do now. This is what you do now. And he had all these lists. He was rattling out in his brain. So he went to go clear the throat for oxygen. And he hooked up a defib on the body.
The Veteran Medics React
At this same time, those veteran medics start noticing what he’s doing. They’re like, “Dude, you’re fired. You’re going to get fired. First week on the job. Good job, dude.” And they were just chewing him out and he didn’t listen. Didn’t even care. He went ahead and did that first round of defib, nothing.
Didn’t he also put a trach in? So what’s weird is when I came out, I had a little scab where a trach might have been. But he remembered it as feeding like a hard hose down the throat. So I don’t know. And they wouldn’t let me — because of liability, they wouldn’t let me get access to their whole records. I only got a bill. It was like taking you for a block and a half for $1,100 in 2003. That would be like $3,300 today to drive you a block and a half in an ambulance.
MAYIM: And so there’s no clause for if you’re dead and come back from the dead?
VINCENT: Nope.
JONATHAN: Okay, just checking. I feel like if you come back from the dead, your bill should be wiped.
VINCENT: It should be wiped.
MAYIM: I feel like if you could hear God’s thoughts —
VINCENT: Or maybe it should be doubled, right? If you come back to life. But he went and let the second round of defib hit. What did you experience, the you that was watching? I had like anticipation. I was excited. I was invested in this.
MAYIM: Did you feel the — No. You did not feel any electricity?
VINCENT: I did not feel any of the shocks. Funny how I felt the spark before, but I didn’t feel any of the shocks, not any of them. And that second round of shocks, there was a single blip on the heart monitor, just a single boop boop. And then flatline. And that got the other two medics to just shut up right there. Because to them, even that’s not possible.
MAYIM: Correct.
VINCENT: So he went for a third round on the defib. And on that third round, heart started — heart started full. It was faint, but it was a steady heartbeat. And it started. And that changed everything.
One of the miracles to all this is there was a brand new hospital, just opened in like the last 6 months or last year of this date, right where this happened. And so they were within seconds of that heart starting, they were at a trauma center with a team that had nothing to do because it was a brand new hospital. And they wanted to work on this body.
MAYIM: Do you still not realize that you are that dead body? Still don’t know, not yet?
The Moment of Recognition
VINCENT: I’m about to though. I’m really close. So they transfer the body from the EMT gurney onto a hospital bed or ICU bed or whatever. As they’re doing that transfer, the body went into full seizure and it was like vomiting. There was stuff coming out of like the ears, stuff coming out of the nose, just weird places. Even I remember there’s something coming out of one of the eyes, and that just looked horrible. And I’m like cringing and thinking like, this looks real.
And they’re trying to get control of this body so they can start doing the things they need to do. So this one really strong orderly or something from the hospital, he starts strapping down the legs of the body. Then he goes around, straps down the right arm. Then he went to strap down the left arm. And I was like, what’s going on? I looked down at my left arm and I could see a strap on my arm. It was like a weird strap. They were trying to strap me to my seat in my movie theater, per se. And so I was like, no. And I yanked like this. And I was still watching the movie. And I watched the body resist the strap and actually break it. And I was like, what? What? What?
And all of a sudden, this deep, dark energy starts pouring in me. “You idiot. You’ve been watching your own death this whole time. How could you not know that what you’ve been witnessing was your body? Duh, it was with your friend. Why didn’t you see that?” And it was like a kid just not even being aware of something. I felt so dumb.
The Life Review
And right then I started to rewind time in my consciousness. I went back to infant and I started going forward really fast and I started seeing anything bad or something that I ever did, or if it was even received badly — like anything negative energy that I influenced on this universe, I saw it. I felt it from my perspective. I felt it from the perspective of whoever hurt too. And it went all the way through that to my 25th year.
And then I just had this thought, like, I’m such a POS. If this is all that I am, why do I even exist? If this is me, if this is the film of Vinnie, why do I exist?
And as soon as I had that thought, this waterfall of warmth came over my back and it’s almost like it enveloped me like a cloak. But a cloak of light. It was a cloak of warmth and love, and it completely enveloped me, and it took my consciousness back to the beginning again, and it started showing me all the good things I ever did. And there was so much more, so much more.
And as a little kid, I was a really heartfelt kid and extremely abused. So I would always know when people were hurting. And so I would go and just say kind things to them. Strangers, homeless people, whatever. Even like a lady who I could feel was hurting inside of the grocery store. I’d go say nice things and — sorry, I didn’t take a drink. It was like this love is pouring in me so strong. And I had forgotten what it was like to be that innocent, that kind. And I ached inside for that again.
And I saw as an adult, I went and did a service mission for 2 years. I went and taught third world country English and sanitation and taught Bible and even literacy. I taught literacy to people that hadn’t had it for 2 generations. And I just felt like there was a lot of good that Vinnie had done. And I just felt like, how can I feel this love this strong?
Meeting the Guide
And so I turned around to see where it was coming from. And there’s this man. He’s like a beautiful man, just this old white man, fairly tall. Big broad shoulders, and he’s all dressed in white, but he’s got like this white robe on, but a white suit underneath. He’s got a long white beard and long white hair. And he has this face where it’s like when your eyes connect to his, it’s like his eyes reach in and just hold you.
And when I felt that, I was like, “You’re God.”
And he just smirked or smiled. It was like, “No, son, I’m not God.”
And my only other thought, growing up Christian, was, “Are you Jesus?”
And he goes, “No, son, I’m not Jesus.”
And I go, “Well — I’m all out of guesses. Who are you?”
And he said, “I’m your guide. I’m here to guide you to go wherever you want to go.”
MAYIM: Okay, I need to ask a question. What was happening in the physical world at this time? Because once your arm — once you noticed that your feeling of resistance of that arm was you, did that go away?
VINCENT: Completely. As soon as I turned away, turned away from my shadow, it turned me away from my body.
MAYIM: So what we can tell people is that your body was taken into the hospital. Yes. And you were in a coma.
VINCENT: Coma, brain dead for 3 days. Yeah.
MAYIM: And you’re hanging out with your spirit guide.
The Journey Begins: Meeting Drake
VINCENT: Yeah, with my spirit guide. Better than the waiting room. Way better. Way better. And way better than anything we could ever do here. So how long—
MAYIM: And I know this is a silly question, but I’m going to ask you to explain why it’s silly. How long did you then embark on the experience that you’re going to tell us about? Do you know how long you were gone?
VINCENT: I feel like the experience was pretty much the whole entire time I was gone.
MAYIM: Did it feel like 3 days? Did you go to sleep?
VINCENT: Back when it happened, you could say, Vinny, did it feel like 10 years? I would say yes. Then you could say, did it feel like 10 hours? And I’d say yes, because there’s no time there. It’s just this ability to take things in. We use time here to measure and gauge our ability to take things in, experience things. But there, everything is omnipresent. So you can take in years of existence and experience in a matter of a breath there. It’s just instant. It’s kind of like our download speed with technology now becomes instant. What used to take 10 hours just a few years ago is really crazy.
I’m sitting there watching this guy, still thinking he’s God, he’s just not telling me the truth. I really am thinking that. And it’s weird because I know he can hear me think that because he would smile when I would think that.
MAYIM: And you didn’t need to speak, correct?
VINCENT: No, you don’t use your mouth there because, I mean, you’re not in your physical vessel anymore, so your thought is your voice.
MAYIM: Did you have a body that you could see? An energetic body?
VINCENT: Yeah. And it just looked just like what I looked like. The one weird thing is I wasn’t wearing shoes. The body had shoes on, at least when I went in that bathroom I did. By the time I woke up a few days later, of course, you were in a hospital gown and no shoes or even socks on.
MAYIM: So you and your guide are shoeless?
VINCENT: Yes.
MAYIM: “Put off thy shoes, the land you’re standing on is hallowed.” That’s what God says from the burning bush.
VINCENT: Oh yeah. Yeah, you hadn’t thought about that?
MAYIM: No, that’s awesome. Yeah, I never thought about shoes.
VINCENT: Yeah, because you’re an extension of that place. You’re in hallowed ground. That’s your charging port. Your feet are your charging.
MAYIM: Yeah, you’re connecting to the mother. Yeah. Okay, keep going. I love that. I thought that’s what you thought.
VINCENT: That’s so awesome. I never put that together.
MAYIM: Yeah, I mean, or Shoeless Joe from Hannibal, Missouri. He was a baseball player who played without shoes. Okay, keep going. So, you’re with your guide.
VINCENT: So I’m with my guide. He did tell me his name is Drake.
MAYIM: Drake.
VINCENT: Yeah. Like the hip-hop artist? Kind of. But it’s funny, that was 2003, so that was long before he came around. Drake. Just Drake. I had never known anyone in my life named Drake prior to that. So I was like, okay, that’s a kind of an odd name.
Earth School: Authenticity and the Masks We Wear
But I could feel this untethered outpouring of love coming from him on everything we were doing. He explained that the love that was coming from him was coming from his home and from my home. And he said, “I can help you go there if you want.” And I said, “Yes, that’s where I want to go. I don’t want to go back to my body.” I know for sure I don’t want that.
And there was no question, especially when he had given me the idea, “Do you want to go back to your body?” I looked back and they were just in the middle of stabbing something directly into the chest. Like it was a big syringe or something. And again, I did not want anything to do with that. So I said, “No, let’s go home. I want to go home.”
So we started this journey. The first thing he told me is it’s not going to be just a journey of distance, but it’s going to be a journey of dimension and vibration. And that I would have to keep up with him if I want to get all the way home. And if I can’t, he’ll stay with me. But I have to be willing to accept certain things, not to fully embrace them, but accept that they’re possibly true. And as long as I did that, I could keep going with him.
So the first thing he taught me — he asked me, “What do you think the most important thing in this life is?” And I’m like, “Love. I know that’s what you’re going to say. Love. Everybody says it’s love.” And he’s like, “Love, it is very important. But in this realm” — and he called it Earth School — “the most important thing is authenticity.”
And I’m like, “I’m authentic.” And he goes, “I love that you think you’re authentic.” And he showed me when I would meet with this friend, I had a mask. With my mom, had a mask. With my dad, had a different mask. With my siblings, probably 5 masks. I had all these masks I was putting up everywhere I went. And he showed me it wasn’t the mask that I think I needed. It was the mask I thought that they wanted. And I was always becoming who I thought they wanted. Like I was some type of Swiss Army knife to become a screwdriver or a knife or a spoon or a fork or that cute little toothpick that everyone loses, or the tweezers.
And I saw that in myself. So I said, “Well, how do you get authenticity?” And he explained that when we first come here, we’re very authentic as children. Until we’re about 5 years old and start getting a kind of a good rooted ego in us, we’re still very authentic. We say what we believe, we even say the mean stuff if we have to, but then we’ll say, “But I love you,” and give a hug. We don’t use necessarily the same tools that we use as adults or adolescents.
So very young kids are that way. And then he showed me that very old people are that way. In their mid to late 80s or 90s, they’re very authentic. They don’t have time for nonsense. They’re not going to placate you for anything. If they don’t want to be there, they’re not going to be there. But if they want to be there, like at ice cream lunch, they’ll go have ice cream for lunch. There’s this authenticity with them.
But I noticed that here we are, age 5 to 85, putting up all these masks in between. And Drake showed me that this is a thrown away space, that when we cannot be authentic, we cannot authentically love anyone, and we especially can’t authentically love ourselves. And if we can’t love ourselves, we cannot love anyone. We have no power of love towards anyone unless we love self first.
He showed me that when we pretend to love, we reflect love, but we don’t source love from us unless we feel that love for ourselves. Just like kids.
JONATHAN: And you can’t feel that love for yourself if you’re constantly thinking, “How do I tiptoe around someone and not be my authentic self so I avoid conflict and I don’t hurt their feelings,” and just trying to manage everything.
VINCENT: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it’s like we have to get over this idea that we are as valuable as what others think we are, because we’re far more valuable than all that from the beginning. And in fact, Spirit has used a specific term with me a lot, and they call it a Divine Masterwork. That’s all of us. We’re a Divine Masterwork.
Earth as a Reward: The Soul’s Journey to Get Here
And that led me to the next thing that Drake taught me. He said, “Vinny, do you know why you come to Earth, to Earth School?” And I was like, “Yeah, I know why. It’s so we can go to the courtroom of life. If we fail, we go to hell. If we pass, we go to heaven and just hang out forever.” And he again said, “I love that you think that’s what it is.”
But he showed me that long before we came here, long before our energetic body was able to earn its way, work its way to here, we did a lot of hard work. We did a lot of the energetic stuff that a soul or an energetic body needs to do to even get to Earth. And Earth is a reward, but Earth is not a courtroom. It’s a classroom. And in fact, better yet, it’s a school box, like a playground, a playground for us to come and play. To learn how to love each other, learn how to love ourselves, learn how to create relationships, how to use our thoughts to create and use the power of us to build energy in this space. And that’s all it is. It’s more of a reward than anything.
And we had to do so much before we got here that there’s a big part of the universe that wants to come here. They can’t. They can’t cut the mustard. You got to be really good to get here. This is like the grad school. This is the place that everyone wants to go because it’s so respected, because only the finest, most well-developed souls can even try it out here.
MAYIM: What about people that we would see as, let’s say, doing prickly things? Or breaking the law or hurting other people? What is their lesson here?
Volunteer Villains and the Roles We Play
VINCENT: Well, a lot of them, from my perspective, are volunteer villains. So they go into contract with loved ones, loved souls, and say, “Okay guys, you made this goal with Source that you want to get all this growth, but you’re not going to be able to do that without a central villain in the story. So I love you more than anyone else does. So I’ll be that villain.” And everyone agrees to it. That one comes here, becomes the villain, kind of like the flint to sharpen the steel, the grinding stone to sharpen the steel, or better yet, the furnace to harden the steel.
And that’s not everybody, but that’s a lot of them. A lot of the ones that don’t look like they’re here for their own journey necessarily, because they’re so far off in what they’re doing. And some of them, that is their journey. They’ve been the hero, they’ve been the bad guy, they’ve been the good guy. And now they just want to be like a lost drug addict for this life. Because that’s the one role they have never played. And that’s this soul’s desire. It’s like the missing piece from their puzzle that they feel they need for their wholeness. And maybe it’s to feel more empathy towards other times where they had judged people like that, and they want to redeem themselves of that judging. So go be that person.
It’s so much bigger than what we can understand because we’re so focused. I like to say, if you know the Voyager satellite — if you were to put a string on it and drop a single grain of sand on that string, and those who know how far the Voyager is out there right now would know how long that is — that grain of sand is our time here. Who we are, that string. But we go out further past the Voyager. There’s no end to who we are.
JONATHAN: Did you see any information about people lining up to come to Earth? You mentioned that we had to do a lot of work in order to get to Earth in the first place.
VINCENT: I could sense it. I couldn’t see it, but I definitely sensed it when Drake was explaining it to me, that it was a really hard thing to achieve to be able to come here and play. Really hard. And in fact, a lot of us have many loved souls that are in other spaces that are envious of us here. And we’re representing that whole group of souls as their representative, their volunteer to come here and play in the dirty sandbox. Does Earth have a waiting list? Yes, million percent yes.
JONATHAN: Yeah, it feels like an elite operation.
VINCENT: It is. And here’s the funny thing, Earth is something that’s been around far longer than science can explain. Far longer. Way longer. Times 100 times what we think it’s been.
JONATHAN: Do we think that there were populations and civilizations?
The Ten Lessons: A Deeper Exploration
VINCENT: Yes. That’s why in Genesis, one of the first commandments, right, is to multiply and replenish the earth. Not plenish the earth. Replenish. And which time around are we in? We’d have to be up there to know. But I know it’s not the first, and I know it’s possibly the last, but I don’t think it’s the last. Because I think the Earth is this divine tool. From my perspective, it’s this divine tool that does all these cycles for us. And then when it gets ready to graduate, it graduates a piece of its own self into a higher place with us who are ready to do it on it. And then it goes back to its lower self where it picks up more volunteers, more of those who feel called to come and play.
JONATHAN: So in terms of the evolution, when we think of the formation or the creation of human beings, the evolution, it could have been that the Earth had just wiped itself clean from one of its cycles. And there was a whole world before that, maybe multiple times over and over and over again. And we’re just seeing a tiny glimpse into the past.
VINCENT: It’s described as epochs — these big periods are epochs. And these epochs could be 40,000 years. It could be 4 million years. They could be just very large numbers. On a little tangent, you can do a little studying into the Syrian list of kings and see kings that lived for like 30,000 or 40,000 years recorded. That’s either really hard work on a board sculptor or actual dictation.
Discovering the Ten Principles
MAYIM: You’ve talked a little bit about a few of the lessons. In their entirety, what you were walked through was 10 lessons, correct? 10 lessons, yep. And these were things that once you came back, you were able to start articulating.
VINCENT: Yes. And I didn’t even know there was 10 until we wrote the book. When we wrote the book, my co-author slash real author — he’s like, “Dude, there’s 10 lessons. 10 principles here.” I’m like, “Really? No.” He’s like, “Repeat them, tell them, say them out loud.” So I did, and he’s like, “Look, that’s 10.” And I just never dawned on me that there was 10 very strong principles in there.
MAYIM: So the first was be authentic. The second is understand the purpose of life. The third is love everyone.
VINCENT: That was the big one.
MAYIM: The fourth is listen to your inner voice. The fifth is use technology responsibly, which actually is less about technology but more about how you can open up your ability to receive the kind of energy and information you want.
The Inner Voice and Technology
VINCENT: I want to go back to just that inner voice one. So I knew I had an inner voice. I had heard it. There was times where, as abused kids, the demand to perform and deliver the performance that your abuser needs — you would just know things. It was almost like a quantum consciousness. You would just grab it out of and do it, and it would be the exact right thing.
And even as a kid, I could pass almost any test without studying one minute, especially if it was multiple choice. I could usually get an 80% or higher, not even reading the questions. And that was just part of my inner voice or my intuition, but I thought everybody had it like that. As I got older, I realized not a lot do. But we all do have that intuition. It’s really strong in us when we’re little. That’s why as kids, they know when mom and dad are suffering, and they come over and offer solace without us asking them. They just feel it. They have a very strong inner voice. And to me, what it is — they’re plugged into that quantum field very strongly.
And then as we get more unplugged from that field and more plugged into the distraction of life here, that’s when that inner voice gets smaller and smaller. And that’s the technology. For us, when I was really young, technology was like the movie theater or an Atari or a Nintendo 64 or original Nintendo. But now it’s insane because even back then you could still have religion where you would turn to your source morning and night and then still have your technology. But now where is your technology? It’s in the place of source. Because when you wake up, it’s right there. When you’re about to go to bed, it’s right there. So this becomes our new God. And that’s what he was talking about. And again, this is 2003, and that was not a place where this was possible. Even BlackBerrys were not a thing yet. Some people were using Palm Pilots a lot. And if they had a holster, you couldn’t trust them.
MAYIM: Yeah, the holster would always break.
VINCENT: And then people were still using beepers back then in 2003. There was always that one odd person that had like 5 beepers and it’s like, “Oh, I know where you get the drugs.” I didn’t understand it then. And of course over time that’s digested really well.
That technology becomes an enemy to the inner voice. And you know what’s sad is it also becomes an enemy to our relationships. When you see a family sitting down for dinner texting each other quips and comments and not using even the connection, it’s like, why even fake like you’re connecting then? But yet everyone says, “Well, technology brings the whole world right to your doorstep.” It does — by putting you inside a hermit’s cave. Even if you’re surrounded by loved ones, you’re in a hermit cave with technology. It keeps you from your own emotions.
Releasing Prejudice
MAYIM: After technology, release prejudice.
VINCENT: That one is a whopper for me.
MAYIM: Yeah, talk a little bit about that.
VINCENT: I grew up with two Asian sisters in a predominantly Caucasian community. They were made fun of. I was much younger than them, but it didn’t stop me from trying to get in fights with boys twice my size because they were making fun of my sisters. I felt like that was God giving me these amazing gifts. And I love my sisters — I love my birth sister, but also my adopted sisters. And I love my brother too, which I’ll talk about more later.
But I knew that I didn’t have prejudice. I just felt it. I’m like, “Drake, I don’t have prejudice. We can just move on.” And as soon as he said that, he goes, “Hmm, I love that you think that, Vinnie, but what do you think about prejudiced people?” And I just remember rising up my energy and I started to boil my energy. And I noticed our progress almost halted right there.
MAYIM: Because you were moving with him.
VINCENT: I was boiling my energy, getting upset. And I said, “I hate prejudiced people. They’re so close-minded. They’re so ignorant. They don’t understand people. They just need to grow up.” And he showed me in like a little cartoon in my mind — cartoon Vinnie on the non-prejudice side. And as I started to rah, rah, rah, he lifted me up and brought me over to the prejudice side and put me down.
And he showed me — like, sit down sad — that if I was going to hate prejudiced people, then I was prejudiced. I don’t have to agree with them, but I’m not supposed to hate them energetically because it itself is prejudice. So you can’t be anti-prejudice and not be prejudiced. Just even though we can align — like, let’s not have prejudice, let’s have love and embracement — that rules out all prejudice. And so that was a big one for me. And as soon as I accepted it, I felt that momentum come back and we were moving again.
JONATHAN: So it sounds like every time you hear a truth or are able to soak something in, there’s like movement — you’re moving through.
VINCENT: Yes, and it’s almost like velocity goes faster as soon as I just accept that it’s possible. And again, just like Drake had said, I didn’t have to believe it was my truth, but I needed to believe that it itself was possibly true.
JONATHAN: It reminds me of how things operate here. There’s a parallel — the more we say something is totally unsubstantiated, or I can’t believe something, or my mind is closed, or I’m fighting the signs that the universe is giving me, I’m in resistance and I’m putting the brakes on and life kind of grinds to a halt. Versus I open my mind a little bit. I may not agree with everything, but if I’m able to explore it, all of a sudden I’m moving.
The Power of Creation and Negative Influences
MAYIM: Yeah, exactly. The other lessons were exercise the power of creation, which is our thoughts.
VINCENT: Anything we think, we can create. And if we think and put our thoughts behind something long enough, the rest of our physical energy will join in, and then we can actually create it.
MAYIM: Avoid negative influences and understand the purpose of evil.
VINCENT: The negative influences are something that lower our vibration. And when we have a low vibration, we feel sad, we feel depressed, our cortisol levels go up. It’s predominantly bad everywhere in this world right now. And that’s because there’s so much negative.
I have a client that is a content director for a major cable network, and he was telling me that his calls from high up in his corporation have said, “We need this many violent movies, we need this many dramas with no hope and no positive outcomes. We need to have sex, drugs, and rock and roll in so many of these movies this month.” And he says it’s weird because the months that have religious holidays — and doesn’t matter the religion — they double down with more negative.
And then the seasons where you already have a lot of negative stuff out there, like October, all your Halloween stuff is everywhere. So then on Halloween, it goes to more the kid-friendly, happy stuff. And then Christmas, you get both. You get lots of good. And then as soon as it goes night, they got to sprinkle in the Christmas horror movies. It’s really interesting that there’s an actual directive to the directors who are choosing these programs.
JONATHAN: So when we think that our reality is being influenced by the media around us, even if we’re not actively watching it — we’re seeing the thumbnails, we’re seeing the movie titles, if you’re scrolling on TV, or if you’re looking on a subscription channel — all of that stuff that’s being actively placed is controlling how we feel about the world around us.
VINCENT: Well, think about this. Every show on TV, every show, and a lot of the shows that you have on your phone, including on YouTube, have a scriptwriter. Even the reality shows.
JONATHAN: Mostly the reality shows.
VINCENT: They all do. And even the live-on-the-street ones have scriptwriters.
MAYIM: Yeah. There’s a narrative.
VINCENT: That’s why they call it his story. But if you went to an earlier epoch, they called it her story.
We Are All One: The Final Lesson
MAYIM: The last lesson that you learned was know that we are all one. Talk a little bit about this final lesson. And I also just want to mention — I mean, get this book — because each of these lessons has so many important details. I can’t even do it justice, but I just want to encourage people to read through each of them because there’s so many tidbits. There’s so many things in every single lesson that it’s really mind-blowing. But I want you to talk about the last one because I want you to then take us into how you said goodbye to Drake and what happened next.
The Purpose of Evil and the Illusion of Division
VINCENT: Well, I’ll step in with that last, “We’re all one,” and the one right before that, “Purpose of evil.” I had an uncle that was an atheist, and he was 10 times closer to me than my own father. I loved that man more than I could love any man in this world as a kid. He would come and save me from my life for a week or a month or fly me out to his place. And we go literally swim with dolphins in a rehabilitation tank. He was a geologist and he really was an inspiring male figure for me.
And at this moment, I’m hearing there’s purpose in evil and I’m like, “Well, what about my Uncle Chuck? He hated you. He hated God. He hated all of this because how could, if there was a God, how could he allow these bad things to happen?”
And Drake showed me, he said that if we come here and we don’t have evil as a choice, there’s no reason to come. It’s like, how can you build muscle without tearing the muscle? It’s the tear that builds the muscle. And for our souls, we have to come to a place where we can choose between good and evil. But when you remove evil as an option, there is no choice. And that’s how it was before we came here.
When we’re with our source, we’re at such a high vibration anything Source wants, we’re already wanting, unanimously with our Source. So there’s no differentiation. We have to leave home, we have to go to college, we have to go to Earth school just to figure out who we are, what we are, and we have to choose. And yes, that means some of us choosing evil, but it’s important for us to have that choice.
Now, the sad thing is, the more evil you see, the more evil there is, impregnating the society and systems that are portraying themselves as not evil. So in history, when you see really evil characters popping up, they’re showing up like a pimple to the underlying problem. And that’s what also brings around the allied forces. The alignment, the unification, because there is this supreme villain everyone wants to get rid of. And so there’s this unification that comes.
So evil does a lot of good at the same time as it does do bad. But there’s good in us that happens because of that evil, and especially when we make it happen, “Never again.” When we say, “Not while I’m alive. I will stand up. I will make sure that never happens again.”
MAYIM: It’s heavy. It’s heavy because of where the world is now. And it’s heavy because it’s not a political statement, but it’s heavy because there’s a tremendous amount of confusion right now over who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy.
VINCENT: By design. By design. Everyone, no matter what team you’re on, you think the other team is the demon devil. It doesn’t matter what team. And what’s sad is that’s telling us, go outsource all your solutions to these crazy whack jobs way out here on both sides of life. Don’t go to the common center where 98% of you are.
You could draw a line in the middle. But even that line, a lot of you flex back and forth on certain things. So 98% of us are common in that we want to raise families or have families or have freedom to have families if we want, or to raise kids or not raise kids if we want, but have a life and have the ability to live that life on our own terms. And that’s the basic fundamentals of living on earth. And yet you get that almost everywhere, except for maybe a few countries, but yet this chaos is everywhere. And rather than wake up to this common light that we all have, we’re enamored with the gods we pray to.
MAYIM: Yeah. Take us from “we are all one,” which was the last lesson that you learned, to hearing your brother’s voice.
Returning to the Body
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: You know, Drake said that we’re all fingers on one hand. All of us. Doesn’t matter what country, what religion, what race. Doesn’t matter who you are. Even he explained, even animals and plants and earth, it’s all— we’re all fingers on the Creator’s hands, the hand that writes the story. And that we can’t hurt each other without hurting our Creator and without hurting us.
And he taught me something as the principle of the pointed finger. Whenever we point our finger at somebody, we’re pointing 3 fingers back at ourselves, but also pointing equal blame to our source. So there’s no way to point negative outwardly. But if we point positive outwardly, like, “Wow, you did a great job,” that’s bringing in positive energy, sending out positive energy. So that pointed finger is very powerful in the positive, but also very powerful in the negative to tear us down.
Arriving at the Expansive Place
So that was another tool that I learned as we were finishing this journey. And as we were finishing the journey, we’re approaching this expansive place, just gigantic, like bigger than I thought was even possible in this universe. It felt like this space, I can’t even call it a planet because it’s so large. It feels like you could put multiple suns across it. Like multiple of our suns. Feels like you could put probably thousands or millions of our Earths inside of it, easy, just to cross it across one circumference. I knew it was just vastly larger than anything I could comprehend, anything that I think we even have comprehension of in this universe.
And I noticed that I could see this beautiful landscape off in the distance. And as we got closer and closer, I could— I was really focusing in on this grass, and I didn’t understand yet why, but we got closer and closer and closer. And then I felt as my feet, my toes came down and like intertwined with the grass and stood in the grass. And as soon as I did, it went back to that same feeling I felt when I had that life review and I felt this overwhelming love pour over me. I felt again just this rush of unconditional love coming into me from my feet.
And the only thing I can think of is like, but why? I don’t deserve this. I know I don’t deserve this. And they just kept speaking to me. The grass would speak. Every blade had a voice and just— or a thought at least. And you can hear the thought. And so I could hear them say, “Because you’re you, because you’re Vinnie.” And I kept hearing it again and again.
The Senses of the Afterlife
And that’s when I noticed that the grass itself had the most sweet, sweet flavor. And I was tasting it through my energetic toes. And it had this aroma that felt very florally, but also very earthy. And it had just all these smells that were beautiful with it. And I noticed that every single blade had like a tone, like a musical tone, and that all of them together were like a concert, like an orchestra. And so I’m just absorbing all of this, and it’s almost too much, really. Like, I’m trying to take it all in.
I’m bawling, but there, when you bawl, you just like glow brighter. Here when we cry, we get tears and waterworks, that kind of thing. There, when you do the crying energy, you just like glow brighter. So I was glowing so bright. And I had this feeling like, I’m so glad I’m home. So glad I’m home.
And I had done quite a bit of recreational drugs in my life. And I noticed that right then and there, this is what we’re chasing with those drugs. We’re chasing one of these blades of grass. Chasing home. We’re smoking the wrong grass.
The Flowers and the Trees
I was just enthralled by this grass and Drake came over to me and goes, “If you like the grass, you should see the flowers.” And I just freaked out. I’m like, “There’s flowers, what?” And I’m not a flower guy. I was an amateur bodybuilder working in movies and stuff here and there, TV shows here and there. I was not a grass and flower guy. And yet I was like, there’s flowers! Yes, I want to see the flowers!
And he took my consciousness and like put it on a flower, like somehow made me small and put it on a flower. I was like running around. I could see everywhere my foot touched the flower petal, it would glow brighter. And it was like liquid lavender light with some beautiful reds and pinks inside of it. And it was just luminescent. And again, a smell, a taste, a vibration. You would even see like these rainbows coming off of everything. So there are just so many more senses that we don’t have here.
And it’s a lot like our eyes here, how we can only see 15% of light. It’s like there’s a reason we can only see 15% of light. When we leave these flesh vessels, these flesh temples, we can see all light. And that’s why I was seeing that glow on that medic’s chest, that’s part of his light.
And I was just so excited. Drake showed me the trees. I was freaking out about the trees. I felt like they were wise, ancient, billion-year-old souls, and they were just living very slow and methodically about their existence.
Healed by the Water
And then I felt this tap on my toe. I looked down, I saw this little creek, this little stream had come out, and it had like tapped my toe. And I heard in my mind, “Do you want us on you?” And I was like, yes, I want— yes. Whatever this is, I want it. So the water started coming up and over me.
MAYIM BIALIK: The water was speaking to you?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yes, it definitely was. And I was speaking to it too. So we were conversing and it was going up and over my body.
And as a kid, I had severe abuse and a lot of that showed up in my adulthood. I would get in fistfights, I would headbutt people all the time. I had put a guy in the hospital one time because he kicked me in the groin. And just silly things, but I would take out my trauma. I would channel it on any male who disrespected me, especially one that looked like my dad.
And here it was, this water was going in and finding all these little places in my soul, all these little cracks, these hyperfractures, these tears, and they were repairing it. And as it went up, it wasn’t until it got to like my chest, I’m like, oh, I wonder if I’m going to be able to breathe. And it came up over my mouth and I was like, oh yeah, I guess I don’t need to breathe. That was the first time I noticed, like, you don’t need to breathe there.
And the water came up and completed itself on the top of my head. And when it did, there was like a boom of energy that came off the top of my head. And then the water came back down slowly, came down off of me, and I felt healed. I felt completed.
Sent Back
And I know that was either Drake telling them to do it or Source telling them to do it, but they were doing it because it was part of my journey to prepare me to go back. Because right after that, I was forced to go back. Drake came and put his arm around me and he said, “Vinnie, this next part, it’s going to be really hard, but it’s going to be worth it.” And I think I’m invincible as a kid, but I wanted to cry right there.
And he hugged me. And when he hugged me, our two beings came together. And it’s so neat because you don’t have that flesh vessel there. Your two energetic bodies can come and become one for a second. And when it happens, there’s like this pulsar of energy that comes off of just a hug, a simple hug. And I could feel that all the energy that was in me and all the energy that was in him, when we came together in a hug, it became 8 times more powerful than what we could become on our own. It was just so much more powerful.
And I felt like that was kind of a send-off gift from Drake, because in that hug, I started to hear in my ear my brother on earth saying a special prayer over my comatose body and saying, “I command you to be whole. I command you to come back to your body.”
Three Days, Zero Brain Activity
Because it was evident. It was 3 days, zero brain activity. It was an induced coma in the beginning, at least, because I wasn’t conscious, but they wanted to induce the coma for helping with the swelling. I had swelling on the brain, seizures, all sorts of stuff. So I wasn’t coming out of that induced coma, and I was off of all sorts of meds and still no sign of coming out of it in my neurology.
And they had talked to my brother and my dad and had given them like these little pamphlets on what to do next, what to do when they’re not waking up. Like, where do you go? Or do you unplug? And he knew what my dad would decide, just unplug. But he wanted to make sure it was the right thing. And he wanted to make sure, especially for my mom. My mom was our saving grace in our family. And some of my siblings might not agree, but I don’t care if they agree or not. She was, and she really was this bonding between all of us kids and somewhat of a defensive wall between Dad and us kids.
And she was out of town when this was all happening. She was visiting my Uncle Chuck in Texas, and no one had told her because they knew if they told her, she’d either get an ulcer or fly out on the first flight back. And they wanted to make sure I was going to live or die first before they told her. And they were deciding, do we call her, have her fly out and then unplug, or do we just unplug?
MAYIM BIALIK: So your brother made this prayer sometime in the evening.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: It’s about 9:30 at night.
MAYIM BIALIK: And a handful of hours later, what happened?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: At 1:11 in the morning, I woke up.
Waking Up
MAYIM BIALIK: What did that feel like?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: It felt like hell. It really did. That’s the hell I experienced. Even my negative life review wasn’t as bad as this. It was really bad. And right at first, I didn’t remember my experience. I just knew I wanted to go home. I knew I was extremely claustrophobic.
MAYIM BIALIK: You said you felt like a whale in a sardine can.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yes. Our energetic bodies are so much bigger than these flesh vessels. That’s why we have to come as babies, so we can cry out that change. And then once we get through that, we grow into the physical vessel, allowing the energetic body to grow with us. And our energetic body is huge. And that’s probably why home is such a big place, because we are big. And when people say spiritual giants, that’s almost all of us. We are.
MAYIM BIALIK: So you have this awareness of being in this hospital bed?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yes. I woke up, I tried to go home. I woke up, pulled every tube out of me. I pulled my catheter out, pulled my breathers out, pulled every diode on my head off.
MAYIM BIALIK: So you had been dead for 3 days and you came back fighting like a lion?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Yeah. And there was only 2 nurses on the floor, and they had like 2 comas at the time, and that was pretty rare. It was a brand new hospital. And my buddy wasn’t one of them. They saved him right away. He spent one night in the hospital and went home the next day because they were able to pump his stomach and he didn’t ever die.
And so I’m going through this experience of I just want to go home. So I, number one, ripped everything off me and then just stood there naked for a second. And I’m like, I want to go home. I want to go home. And I’m looking around like, oh, I’m naked. And so I went rifling through the cupboards and found these gowns. And I grabbed like 2 of them, just wrapped around my midsection. And then I just started walking. I didn’t know how. I would have looked like a crazy homeless man, but I was going to do it. I was like, I’ll just walk home. I’m not going to stay here.
And then I heard 2 screams. And I look back and see the nurses and I could just feel the sorrow, the scaredness, the fear coming off of them, and I knew I didn’t want to do that to them.
JONATHAN COHEN: Had you gotten outside the hospital?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: No, I got to the elevator. I got to the elevator and was pushing the button.
MAYIM BIALIK: It’s a little bit like Frankenstein’s monster, meaning like something that has consciousness all of a sudden and has a directive to move but doesn’t really know how to do it.
Returning to Life: Medical Impossibilities and Unanswered Questions
VINCENT: Yeah. So that morning they did a whole battery of tests.
MAYIM: They got you back in the bed.
VINCENT: They made me go back in the bed. They put on a real hospital gown. And even though I wouldn’t let them tie it in the back, I was like, no, I just didn’t like stuff touching me. I didn’t even want sheets on my bed. I just didn’t want to be touching stuff. I want to feel like I could have access to oxygen, even on my skin. And like true claustrophobia, the deepest level.
And I met with all the doctors. Everyone was calling me, “You’re the miracle boy. You’re the miracle boy.” I’m like, nope, I’m the damned boy. ‘Cause this is not miracle. I feel damned. I did. I felt like punished at this point. I felt like I must not have been good enough for something. I couldn’t remember yet where I’d been. I just wanted to go home again. I’m like, I gotta go home. Kept telling everyone that.
And so I fought them and fought them and fought them. And then finally at about 6:00 AM, they allowed me to start filling out paperwork. I had to fill it out for over an hour. And at 7:30 AM, I checked out from that hospital on my own volition. My dad came to get me and took me home. I went running, went jogging.
MAYIM: Stop it right now. Yeah.
VINCENT: And I remember running and feeling this little scab right there and peeling it off. I was like, what’s that? It’s like afflicted. But I wanted to go back to life. That’s what I wanted. And I was a builder at the time, so I had a construction site. I’m like, oh, they probably think I’m dead. And so I wanted to go back to that site, but I knew, give myself a day and then I’ll go back tomorrow.
MAYIM: So I give myself a day after being dead for 3. You went back to work the next day?
VINCENT: I did.
The Medical Impossibility
JONATHAN: Yeah. I’m not a doctor, but not having brain activity, being in a body bag with almost no pulse in your heart for the length of time, both in the bathroom and then in the body bag in the back of the ambulance — like, TV tells us that there’s going to be brain damage, you’re going to have much cell atrophy, you’re not going to be able to function properly. How is it medically possible that you come back with all your faculties? It doesn’t make sense.
VINCENT: Every doctor that I’ve studied it with tells me the same thing. They tell me there’s got to be a factor we don’t know about. And I have one doctor that said, “What was that supplement you were on? I want to do a study on it.” So he did a study on it and said — and I didn’t follow up with him on the study, but I did find out what he reported on the study. It was something about that supplement kind of worked like an anesthetic or something that would put someone to sleep, but in strong amounts. But there was no heartbeat. They had me hooked up to the thing.
MAYIM: This was the big sleep.
VINCENT: There was no heartbeat. And for well over an hour, if not more than an hour.
JONATHAN: Either from your own medical knowledge or from the internet, how long after having no heartbeat does there begin to be brain damage? It’s like 3 or 4 minutes.
VINCENT: Yeah, it’s not — it’s very fast.
MAYIM: Yeah.
JONATHAN: No, I mean, there’s like severe brain damage happens like within 10 minutes.
MAYIM: I mean, look, it’s the understatement of the century, right? To say there’s some other factor here, meaning you don’t have a lot of choices in how to explain this, man. There’s not a lot of choices.
VINCENT: I had a coworker just a few months later I was working with in Wyoming, and I told him my story, and he unbuttoned his shirt and showed me this Frankenstein scar straight down his chest and said, “You think that’s something? I woke up during my autopsy.” Okay, what? What? And he’s not the only one. I’ve read about more since then. Woke up during their autopsy. Sorry.
MAYIM: What? Okay. It’s not a lot. It’s not a lot. No, no. This is a pretty rare thing.
JONATHAN: Valerie has some stats here that I think are helpful just to put in context. Yeah. Just the enormity of the — just physical details here.
MAYIM: Yes. So this is from hypoxia, I think. Yeah. So at 3 minutes, neurons suffer extensive damage. Lasting brain damage becomes likely at 5 minutes. Obviously death is imminent. At 10 minutes, even if the brain remains alive, meaning has blood and circulation and all those things, a coma and lasting brain damage are inevitable. At 15 minutes, survival is nearly impossible. No, it’s not.
JONATHAN: I mean — that means lack of ability to speak, lack of ability to walk and have motor skills. It’s not that.
VINCENT: No memory. Yes.
MAYIM: I mean, there’s so many parts, and this is why I really would like people to read the book because there’s so many parts of this that defy logic, they defy reason.
Healing the Energetic Body
VINCENT: I didn’t understand how it was possible until later. I was following some Wayne Dyer stuff, and I discovered Anita Moorjani, her story. We’ve spoken to her and how she woke up, cured of cancer. Correct. And I feel like that’s what that waking up, and that’s what that water was doing. You had a healing. The water was not just healing my energetic body. It was healing what was going to go back into my flesh vessel, and that would have to heal my physical body.
JONATHAN: So there could have been, at that time, before that healing, extreme damage in your physical body.
VINCENT: Oh, I’m sure there was. Yeah. So all the instruments said there was zero brain activity. Well, they’re rating it as like less than 5% activity.
JONATHAN: And were you on a — what’s the machine that breathes for you?
VINCENT: I was on full, full breathing assist. Yeah, I was intubated. I had catheters in, double IVs to each arm.
MAYIM: They were giving you some sort of solution to kind of keep your electrolyte balance, something stable.
JONATHAN: And then that wake-up was like instantaneous. All of a sudden you were back.
VINCENT: I was just back.
Time, Space, and the Spiral Noodle
VINCENT: Yeah. And maybe that’s why the time difference too. My brother said that prayer at about 9:30 and I woke up at 1:11. So maybe that’s what, to me, in my perception, right? I was traveling through space and time. And time is kind of like this barrel right there, or this glass, right? If you imagine this glass is like a bunch of spiral noodle, and you look at that stack of spiral noodle, time is the spiral. And like, to put me back in my time, they had to find my piece of the noodle. To put me into it. But in that process, I could see on this side of the noodle and that side of the noodle. I could see what was in our ancient past, and I could see what was coming up in our really distant future. So it was very easy to see, just looking, you could see it.
Searching for Corroboration
MAYIM: I have an annoying question, and then I have, I think, a less annoying question. I think that some people might, even with loving skepticism, listen to your story and what happened to you and say, well, you had some sort of like elaborate dream and you think that you were seeing these things, but there’s no way that you could. And all we have is like your account. Is there any way for us to, let’s say, corroborate what was happening, let’s say, in the Dairy Queen while you were in the bathroom so that we can say, oh, there is a way that you knew what was going on? Is there any way to kind of reference any of this to try and find connection points?
VINCENT: Well, I woke up from it as a skeptic. I had a neurologist that, that morning before I left, he really wanted to keep me another day to observe. He was afraid that it was a hiccup and I was going to go back into coma. He thought, he said that it’s common right before someone dies, they’ll like get real high energy and be very, very clean and —
MAYIM: It’s a death lucidity. Yeah, we talked about it.
VINCENT: Yeah, death lucidity. He thought I was in death lucidity and I was just going to drop dead any second. And there was a part of me that was like, maybe that’s why I should just go running. ‘Cause maybe if I’m running, that’s not going to happen. So that’s honestly why I went running as soon as I went home. I think that’s probably why I went running. And I was a rugby player, football player, and I wanted to go move, get out of this body.
MAYIM: Yeah. So is there any way that we can have little bits of connection points? Or do we simply rely on your report? You know what I mean? Like, I want to know the witness statements and I want them to say that you heard the thing. Like, I want to know.
VINCENT: I tried to get all of that at the time. I was 25 when I tried, so I didn’t try that hard, right? I tried with like a few phone calls, a few letters. It’s complicated. Yeah, it’s very complicated. Number one, the medic transportation. They wouldn’t give me anything. They wouldn’t even give me the medic’s name.
JONATHAN: No, they have huge liability for leaving you in the bag.
VINCENT: I knew he was going to get fired. Yeah, he almost did. He ended up becoming a fireman, but if he had stayed on, he was going to be released. He was going to be terminated. Yeah, yeah. You don’t like to save people.
JONATHAN: That’s not part of the job.
VINCENT: I did collect my very expensive block and a half ride on an ambulance. I had a bill that at the time was like $40-something thousand. Again, in 2003, that was a lot for 3 days. Nowadays, you could burn that in a day here. You go to lunch at a hospital for $30 grand now. Back then, you stay a week for maybe $10 grand if you’re lucid and not under a lot of assistance. So yeah, I had that. I think it was like $38,000, $40,000 for that bill. All of that’s record. My time of death recorded is record, but because I was resuscitated, they didn’t turn that in as finished paper.
MAYIM: So in theory, we do get to rely on your accounting. When did the rest of the story get filled in for you?
VINCENT: So for me, I was extremely depressed after this. I went to the most trusted search engine at the time called Ask Jeeves. This is before Google.
MAYIM: What do you do when you die and come back?
Seeking Death and Finding Love
VINCENT: No, I asked, what’s the most— and it’s funny the way I thought of it. I knew this life insurance guy. He kind of bugged me. He’s very annoying. And I asked him, I go, you know, what kind of jobs can you not sell life insurance to? And he’s like, I don’t know. It’s a good question. So I went to Ask Jeeves and I found there a couple of articles saying, you know, if you’re such and such life insurance company, you can’t sell policies to underwater welders, because they have a very high mortality rate. It’s like 60-something percent. Crab fishermen, it’s in the 50s at the time, back in the early 2000s, like 50%. Some military duties, it was in the high 30s, especially if it was an active theater of war. And so I looked into all of them, signed in, signed up for military.
MAYIM: What were you looking for?
VINCENT: I want to die. I want to go back. I didn’t want to be here. This was hell. Being here after there, that’s hell. That’s why we can’t remember it. If we could remember it, we wouldn’t stay here. We would just release ourselves. I wanted to go back so bad, but I knew that if I just went and drove off a cliff— which I— there was this one cliff. I drove to the top and just stared at it like, I could do it. I could do it, Drake. I could do it right now.
MAYIM: Were you still in contact?
VINCENT: Yes. And I thought I was crazy. I thought I was schizophrenic. I thought I needed to be on multiple prescriptions for this. I did not believe in any of that stuff. I didn’t. I believed in spiritual people and intuition. I didn’t believe in psychics back then. I didn’t believe in people being able to speak to the dead.
MAYIM: So you and Drake are still in conversation?
VINCENT: Complete. And not only that, I’m seeing dead people everywhere. And I’m seeing them as if they’re alive, seeing them walk around, sitting around, talking to each other. Even to this point where I felt like I almost needed to stop driving for a while because I would swerve for someone who’s not there. And there was a big part of my brain that I’m— I’m having a hard time accepting. And I keep hearing that sentence from the neurologist: “Don’t believe what your brain is filling in the gaps with.”
MAYIM: Because that’s what— that’s what you were told.
VINCENT: That’s what I was told. He says, “Your brain’s going to make up a story. It’s going to be colorful. It’s going to be elaborate. But don’t believe it. It’s just your brain using Crayola crayons to fill in the blocks.”
Meeting Andrea
And so I continued on my journey. I met my wife. I met my Andrea, my angel. She’s someone who, the world doesn’t get her because she has a special gift with kids, especially special kids. And she could work with them, help them to do things that they’ve never done in their life. And she almost has like an ESP with autistic or special needs children. And here I was, and I just saw her as this porthole to heaven. I really did.
And I met her through one of my friends, through her best friend. And before we even went on a single date, we knew we were going to get married. We went on our first date after we had already both decided we were going to get married. And we even had our first kiss before we went on our first date. And we were just hanging out as friends.
But she was the first person I shared my story with. And I did it to try to, like, scoot her off because I felt it was crazy. So if she did too, I’d be like, well, dodged that bullet. And so I told her the whole thing. It took like a week, by the way. I went into every detail, every element. She asked questions. I told everything that I could remember. And we get done to this period and we decide, yeah, we’re going to get married. And I find a new hope in my life. And with her, she helped me reprioritize my life.
MAYIM: Mm-hmm. Because you kind of had a bad boy image also.
VINCENT: Oh, I— not just image. I was a bad boy. Like, any girl that liked bad boys, those were all my girlfriends and ex-girlfriends. That was just me. I had this scar above my head from a headbutt that was so bad that it dropped my whole skinhead down and it gave me a second eyebrow. And a lot of girls love that. They’re like, this bad boy fighter guy.
JONATHAN: And good thing you didn’t meet her back then.
VINCENT: Oh, I watched Blossom.
The Memory Returns
JONATHAN: Hold on, hold on. I still want to go back to the time period where you’ve come back, you feel like it’s oppressive, you’re living in hell. You’ve been in this place where you’re so expanded, you’re now back in the physical form, and your mind, as you said, is like filling in the gaps. How are these images coming back to you? Like, how do you begin to recount and become aware of all that time that you just experienced?
VINCENT: It came in one flash. No. Yeah, one flash. The entire thing dumped into me.
JONATHAN: How long after? Like, when was that moment?
VINCENT: So, I got out of the hospital at 7:30 in the morning, did my running around, doing busy stuff that day, just running some errands after I stopped being dead. Dead man errands. And then the very next day went to work, worked a full day. After work, my sister called and said, “Hey, I’m in town.” She lived further up north. She’s like, “I’m in town. I want to take you to dinner. Our sister’s here too, so.” Glad you’re not dead. So two of my sisters and I, we went and had dinner.
And this one sister, she was just enthralled with NDEs. And she knew something happened. She’d been really following this story. And I think she had called the hospital a couple times and she was calling my brother and calling my dad. No one would tell her enough information.
JONATHAN: So she had the term NDE already. You probably didn’t have it.
VINCENT: She called it— did you experience anything? That’s what she asked. She goes, “You were dead. Everyone says you were dead. They say you’re a miracle. Did you see anything? Did you experience anything?”
And in my mind, my human formed the words, “No, leave me alone.” But what came out of my mouth— I started crying like a newborn child. I said, “Yes, I have a guide. His name’s Drake.” And I started describing him and I started crying really hard and heavy. I couldn’t catch my breath. And I’d say, and I went on a journey. I just started crying and I just couldn’t control it.
I went into the bathroom, got myself together even before my food came. And that was not me either. Like, I would eat all my food. I was a bodybuilder. And no, before even my food came, I went and got myself together in the bathroom and just went home. I didn’t go finish dinner with them.
JONATHAN: So in that moment when she asked and you started speaking, it just came to you.
VINCENT: It all came to me in a single, single dump.
JONATHAN: And you knew it all?
VINCENT: No, but all of it.
MAYIM: But what he said was that human meat suit Vinny said, “No, nothing happened.”
VINCENT: Leave me alone. Yeah.
MAYIM: And energetic Vinnie said, this is the flag.
JONATHAN: Do you think it was protecting you? Like, there’s a version of our awareness. Similar mask.
VINCENT: I think it was. They had to put a mask over it because if I’d remembered it right away— you know, my hospital room was on the second or third story. I probably would have just like headbutted myself through the window just so I could go back. Honestly, that’s probably— that’s— unfortunately, I was one of those crazy guys at parties. That was me.
JONATHAN: What’s with the headbutting, Vinny?
VINCENT: Well, you learn it in rugby, right? And then you learn it in MMA, and it becomes like your go-to, right? And it keeps you from scarring up those knuckles.
JONATHAN: But it’s like when we’re children and we embody as babies, we have to forget about the transition so that we can— it feels similar that you came back, but you needed protection in order to—
VINCENT: I did need that protection.
JONATHAN: Take yourself into that transition of getting over the coming back.
VINCENT: And I noticed that there was a lot of spirits, what I would call angels, hanging out with Drake around me when I first came back for that first day.
JONATHAN: They have to watch over you, make sure that there’s like the transition.
Angels and Source Light
VINCENT: Hundreds.
JONATHAN: What does that look like?
VINCENT: Oh, they’re so amazing. They’re so beautiful.
JONATHAN: Is there a visual?
VINCENT: Yes. Yes.
JONATHAN: What is it?
VINCENT: It’s— if you imagine, being in that place of heaven, I saw that when you’re there, there’s no outside light. Everything is source light. So you’re source light. The grass is source light. The flowers are source light. And angels are source light, so they could be in a dark room and they just— they’re brighter than the day sun. If you can tune your consciousness into perceiving it, you can see even tones of color that the angels are, and by the tone of color, you know who they are.
And it’s like Lorna Byrne. Yes. And the unemployed angels. They’re all hanging out, out here waiting to be called in, either by prayers or by inquest, by asking. Anyone who wants to get help from heaven, you ask, there’s spirits that show up, there’s angels that show up for it. And I know my mom had heard what had happened. She wasn’t rushing back. She had heard I was okay. And I know for a fact she was praying off her tail to pray that I was going to be okay.
MAYIM: You saw when you were with Drake, you had an experience of seeing groups of beings praying for someone.
VINCENT: Yes. And watching those prayers fuel actual legions of beings to go help, like enlist and go help.
A Message from Beyond
MAYIM: Yeah. There’s one story that I wonder if you can give us as an example of the kind of help that you sought? Because there was one doctor in particular that you went to, and a woman presented herself.
VINCENT: She did. So I was still in the period of, I’m a crazy guy, Andrea is the only one who believes me. I didn’t even think my sisters believed me yet because I still couldn’t tell them the whole thing. Andrea was the only one I could tell her for more than 30 minutes without deep breathing, weeping. And I just felt a comfort level with her.
So I was in that period, and I still am so skeptical. I’ve been so skeptical. Abused kids are skeptical. They don’t trust anything. You trust what your gut tells you. You don’t trust what you see. And so I wasn’t trusting what I saw. With my vision or whatever.
And so I did say, you know what, screw this. I told Drake, I’m like, I’m going to go see a doctor. So I went to one doctor and he was like, “I’m the wrong doctor for this, you need somebody who can prescribe you stuff.” So I was like, okay. So he referred me to another doctor.
That second doctor, I went to go see him. From the second I walked in the room, I sensed this presence of an older female. I knew she was in there. I couldn’t see who she was or how she was connected until he started to fill out my prescriptions. And then she said to Drake and to me, “Don’t you dare take those prescriptions until you tell him two sentences.”
The two sentences essentially alluded to, “Don’t forget what I did. I protected you, and that’s why you do what you do.”
JONATHAN: How did he react?
VINCENT: He had some closeted trauma that he had zero memory of, that he had no memory. No one in his world had memory of this except for his mother.
MAYIM: That’s who you were seeing.
Drake’s True Identity Revealed
VINCENT: And that’s who I was seeing, either mother or grandmother. What did he do? Just saying those sentences, it’s like she gave him the memories. And when he— this happened to him, really good, like, Christian guy, pictures of Jesus on his wall in his office even. And he took those prescriptions, just like ripped them to shreds and said, get the f* out of my office. And I knew this guy from his reputation. That was probably the first time he had said that word in his life. Wow. And because he had such a good, clean reputation. So that freaked me out. I was like, good job, Drake. Thanks for letting me piss this guy off. Maybe I’m going to have a white van meet me at my house and I’m going to go live in a new house. I really thought that.
I was driving away, and then about a mile or so down the road, my phone rang. And it was him, he called me and he said, “Vinnie, you know, I don’t have any answers for you. My version of medicine doesn’t have answers for you.” He’s like, “I don’t want you to seek your answers from us. My official opinion is you need a preacher and not a doctor.”
MAYIM: That’s a spiritual solution. Yeah.
VINCENT: So I did. I went to try to find more spiritual solutions. And found some rabbit holes, found some dead ends, and others I found very helpful too.
MAYIM: I mean, also, you had a completely different perception now of what religion even is, right? That’s a human construct.
VINCENT: Religion, regather. That’s what religion is. It’s to re-separate, regather. And, you know, for me, it was really important for me to try that doctor’s visit though. I wanted my ego to know I did what you wanted me to do. Now back off. Let me play with this a little and see if it is real.
And I would play with it a little and I would talk to guides. I’d talk to angels. I would go help people. Like I would hear, “2 miles up on your right, there’s going to be a woman sitting down on the road. She needs a ride 3 blocks down. And if you don’t get her there soon, her daughter’s going to fall and hurt herself.” So I rushed around. I’m like, I’m here to pick you up. She’s like, okay. She just jumps in.
MAYIM: You’re like freaking Superman.
VINCENT: At first I had to turn it down. It was making me crazy. And I ran her to her house and I knew, okay. And I was like, Drake, did we make it in time? And he’s like, great job, great job. And it was like, to me, on Earth, when there’s angels, that’s what it is. It’s like real angels working through us. That’s what angels are. That’s what Earth angels are. Yeah.
MAYIM: What brings the tears for you? It’s just that love.
VINCENT: There’s nothing like it there. There just isn’t. I have two amazing kids, a beautiful family. There’s just nothing, nothing like that.
MAYIM: Do the angels go away when you’re intimate with your wife?
VINCENT: You don’t think about this.
MAYIM: You gotta draw the curtain.
VINCENT: It’s like, you know, you’re human, your flesh vessel might think about that, but interesting, there’s no one interested in that. You’re getting these messages.
JONATHAN: Yeah. You’re helping people. Yeah.
VINCENT: You’re having here and there, not a ton, but here and there. But you’re being guided. You’re actively being guided. When they told me to do it, I would do it.
JONATHAN: And you’re in relation with Drake seemingly on a very consistent basis.
VINCENT: He’s worse than a shadow at that point. I couldn’t lose him for anything.
JONATHAN: So you’re now not dead. You got Drake. You’re running around like Batman and Robin sometimes. Yeah. But what else is like, what are you experiencing? Like, what is your day to day?
Living with New Gifts
VINCENT: I still think I’m crazy. Yeah, I really do. All of a sudden I had this new gift that if someone was coming to speak to me, I knew it like 2 hours before they’d come.
JONATHAN: So you’re having minor premonition.
VINCENT: I did. I had minor premonition. I had a complete gift of perception. Like, I could tell so easily when people would lie to me or try to mask what the truth was.
JONATHAN: You could tell when something was beneath the surface.
VINCENT: I would speak to their spirit guides and say, how do I get them to tell me the truth? And they tell me what to say. I tell it to them. And then they would unravel the truth in front of me. And they would be like, how did you do that? I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah.
JONATHAN: And are you having mediumship experience or just conversation?
VINCENT: Not yet. Not yet. Yeah, I didn’t know, again, back in 2003, this is before a lot of the medium shows and all that. I didn’t know what a medium was. I knew what a psychic was, and I thought they were evil. I thought they were like charlatans and snake oil. Bad people. That was just my judgment, my prejudice.
And, you know, through all this, there was this pulse of light around me called Andrea, and she kept aligning me. I would go into these tangents of, like, I just want to be back there. And then she’d say, let’s get together. And all of a sudden I’d be happy again. And I’d stop thinking about those things. So we started spending every day together.
And got to a point where she said, hey, next weekend we’re going to your family reunion. And I’m like, no, we’re not. We’re going to go watch a game. We’re going to go do this, go on a date. She’s like, no, sir, we are driving 5 hours up to the little town in Wyoming where this is going on. We’re going to go to your family reunion. I was like, okay. So we go to this little reunion. It’s the end of the day. They’re doing a little presentation at the high school on the history of this little town in Wyoming called Star Valley or Afton.
MAYIM: How long has it been since you woke up? 7 months. 7 months?
VINCENT: Yeah. Actually 6 months there, 7 months when I got married. So just short of 7 months. Yeah.
The Family Reunion Revelation
MAYIM: Family reunion. Go ahead.
VINCENT: At the family reunion, I’m sitting down, I’m bored. I’m like, let’s just go back to the hotel and watch TV or do something. I was still very much my 25-year-old human. And Andrea is like, no, this is really cool stuff. Let’s learn about your heritage. This is your heritage, not mine. Let’s learn about it. And so we were sitting there and I was trying to play along, trying to play nice.
And all of a sudden Andrea says to me, that’s your guide. And I’m looking down. I’m looking at this cooler that we have some drinks in. And I’m like, that’s not my— and then I stopped. I was frozen because I turned and looked and there was Drake, like larger than life. They had this huge movie screen in the middle of this football field, and they filled the whole screen with his face. And I just, again, just started weeping. I couldn’t speak. I was almost like paralyzed.
And Andrea, just being the diligent little soul, she grabs our stuff, kind of lifts me up, and she’s so small compared to me. She’s like a third the size of me, and she’s kind of helping me up, and she’s guiding me back to the car. She knows it’s time to leave right then. And between the tears, the just snot bubbles running out of my face, she heard me say, “Let’s go to Grandma’s house.” Because I saw the last name of Drake was Cazaire, and that’s my grandmother’s maiden name.
MAYIM: Okay, so hold on one second. You’re watching this documentary movie. Yeah. Right. It’s a documentary that’s put on about the history.
VINCENT: It’s like a play. It’s a play.
MAYIM: Yeah. Right. But it’s a video, a filmstrip. A filmstrip. Yeah. Right. So you’re watching this and it’s part of just the whole thing, like the history of this area and the history of this region. And a face comes up, and Andrea saw it first. And Andrea saw it. She felt something about this, and when you knew it, when you saw it, you said, that is the image, the person that’s been with me, my guide. But it didn’t say that his name was Drake. No, it said Charles. It said Charles, and then the last name was— right. So it said Charles, and that’s not Drake, but you had this feeling that you should go ask your grandmother.
VINCENT: Yes.
MAYIM: Who has that last name. So this was one of her—
VINCENT: We don’t know. Yeah, don’t know. Don’t even know if they’re related. Correct. But same little town with like less than maybe 1,000 or 2,000 people in it. Yeah, there’s got to be a relationship. So you go to your grandmother, you go straight to Grandma’s house, and I think I need to ask about this Charles Cazaire. And so I went and said, “Grandma, Grandma, Grandma, do you know who Charles Cazaire— can you tell me anything about Charles Cazaire?” And her response was, “Oh, you mean Great Grandpa Drake.” That’s it. “He’s really famous in our family.” Drake. And she brought it up. She brought up the name Drake. That was the very next time I had ever heard that name before him telling it to me.
Who was he? And come to find out, he was one of the first settlers in, early settlers in Afton, Wyoming. He was like a land surveyor. He was a city member. He was a county government member, a state government member. He was also a clergy leader. So he was like a high leader within the clergy there.
MAYIM: And who was he in your family?
VINCENT: He was my great-great-great-grandfather on my grandmother’s side. Yeah. So it was my grandmother’s great-great-grandfather. Yeah. And the stories were so prevalently being shared with each other with her as a girl that she felt like she knew him. And she even said, “I, they say I wasn’t alive when he was, but I swear I remember meeting him.” And I’m like, yeah, you did, Grandma. It was right before you got in that little baby body of yours.
And it was just so neat. And as you know, kismet would set it up for us. It was only 3 months later, we were living with my grandmother, taking care of her at the end of her life. And that was it. I learned so much about Drake. I learned that he was blessed with a special prayer that said the important duties he would play in this life. And then on the backside of that prayer was an entire page of all the duties he would have in the afterlife. And that one of his primary duties would be to welcome those who are loved by God, by source, and family or not, and guide them to where they want to go. It said that in his 1800s prayer. Which to me, that was someone channeling. That was something summoning, like summoning Source through them and bringing it into this prayer for this man.
And now I had a whole other relationship with him. I very much had a love-hate relationship up until that point, and now I was like fanboying all over my great-great-great-grandpa, and I was like, why didn’t you tell me? And he was like, you weren’t ready yet. You weren’t ready yet. And he kept telling me, “I promised you it was going to get better.” And ever since then, anything bad that happens to me, he’s always right there. “Vinny, it’s going to be hard, but it’s going to get better. It’s going to be worth it.” And he was just saying that to me 6 weeks ago.
I mean, he’s a daily part of my existence. He comes forward now when I call him forward. He used to be forward interacting with me all the time, everywhere I went. I’ve now kind of put him on the shelf with many guides, and I utilize them according to what my spiritual team helps me organize in the work that I do with helping others change their lives and step out of their old paradigms and step out of their trauma cages, unlock those cages and grow and heal and live beyond our old story and learn how to live in a new story. And that’s what I do. And I use all of my guides with that.
MAYIM: How do you get in touch with them? Is it a place you go inside? Is it words? Is it thoughts?
Childhood Trauma and Spiritual Protection
VINCENT TOLMAN: So it’s the you inverse. It’s the universe. Oh, it’s the you inside out. What we perceive as the universe is just us inside out. As above, so below. And so I tap in, but that ends up tapping me through and out to them.
MAYIM BIALIK: This is not what you thought your life was going to be like.
VINCENT TOLMAN: No, I thought I was going to be working in film. I mean, I worked on this little movie called Pool Hall Junkies, and I got to meet like Christopher Walken and Chazz Palminteri, and I got to meet like Ricky Schroeder, which is from your early days, right? And it was so cool. They were like friendly with me, most of them. One of them wasn’t. But it was a really neat experience. And I thought for sure this was going to be my gig. I was going to make movies. I worked for Touched by an Angel for 2 years, and I’ve now done it.
MAYIM BIALIK: I mean, the irony there is not lost on any of us.
VINCENT TOLMAN: I know. But you know what’s funny is one of my guides is Della Reese. Wow. Yeah. Hmm. That gets me every time. Wow.
MAYIM BIALIK: You say that you thought back to the darkness in your childhood, and there was a lot of it. Fear, pain. “I grew up creating an alternate universe in my mind where I was safe.” This is something that we have heard from pretty much every individual who has had an NDE, that there was a set of skills acquired.
VINCENT TOLMAN: They just show up.
MAYIM BIALIK: Well, the notion being that there are challenges that allow you to practice. Yes. Not only leaving your body, but surviving. The things that force you out of your body. Talk a little bit about the trauma you experienced, the dissociation you were able to achieve, and how you think that might relate to your NDE.
The 2×4 and the Angel
VINCENT TOLMAN: So I’ll express one really precious traumatic event for me. I got my brand new $8 boots dirty, and that I was not allowed to do. I was 6 or 7 years old. And so that meant it was going to be 2 to 3 hours of beatings. And it also meant that I was going to lose chunks of my hair, possibly going to have one of my ears torn. And I knew I was going to be beat. I just didn’t know with what. It could have been a stick, could have been the belt buckle of the belt, or just the belt. Or I loved Mr. Spoon because he’d make a loud smack, but he didn’t hurt. And that was more my mom’s instrument than my dad’s.
But I knew that here I was, from the second I got in the car and my dad saw I had mud on my boots, that was it. And I had this weird sense that death was around me. What I didn’t know is one week later, that friend that I had been playing with that day died in a camping accident. And I feel like there was a part of my dad’s psychic nature that was picking up on that and channeling his anger for me not to follow the rules.
And so Dad just started unleashing on me. He unleashed on me in the van while he’s driving. Full fists to the face, to the chest, anywhere he could reach. And if you lunged or flinched, he’d hit you again. So you had to hold still for your punches. And by the time I got home, I knew that I just had the appetizer and that this was going to be the meal.
So my dad brought me in. I won’t go into all the details. Fast forward 20 minutes later, I’m now in the backyard. Chunks of my scalp are torn. I have hair missing out of my head. I’ve got lashes all over my back. I’m not wearing pants. I’m wearing my whitey tighties. And I was tasked with going out back and getting wood out of the woodpile, which we had this big coal bin that was bigger than almost an adult. And then I needed to climb up into that thing, get some wood out and refill our wood-burning fireplaces, which we had two of them in our house. And that was my duty, to bring justice to getting muddy boots.
And while I was out there, I was climbing. I was so exhausted from all the beatings so far. I couldn’t climb into this coal bin. So I started stacking pieces of coal that had fallen and I was like teetering on them trying to lift up this really heavy wood lid. It looks kind of like a lean-to garbage can. I was like lifting this heavy wood lid while I was trying to reach in and get some wood out. And I remember getting like one piece and it was barely starting to come out. And right as that happened, I feel this smack right across the back of my head. And I went rolling onto the concrete.
And my dad said, “Not fast enough, are you?” And he reached into that same coal bin and pulled out a 2×4. And he goes, “You know the position.” And any abused kid knows the position. I went into my position. That means you put your hands on something and you brace because the blows are coming. But I knew that 2×4 was bigger than my elbow. It was bigger than my knee. I was a little, little child at the time, and I knew this is probably going to be it.
So I went to my space. I did. And in that space, you have friends. You don’t know that they’re angels at the time, but I called my friends. I called my friends over. And they all came. They’re surrounding me. And it’s weird because when you go into that space, you’re now not in your body, you’re watching your body like remotely. And you’re surrounded by all these beings that are full of light, and you’re like watching the abuse happen to the body, but you’re like, “Oh good.” It’s like you’re not feeling that pain.
The 2×4 as it comes swinging down full speed — I watched this white arm clothed in this kind of different looking print. This white arm reaches out and puts itself right in front of this 2×4, and that 2×4 exploded into hundreds of pieces. And it sounded so loud. It sounded like a bomb, like a little stick of dynamite or an M-80 or something. It was so loud, neighbors on both sides, two houses down, went in their backyard to see what that was. And one neighbor, she witnessed this because she was out on her patio. She heard that crack, looked outside, and saw this shattered 2×4, sees me laying in the position, and like bleeding and just in my turmoil. And I’m watching it from outside me. And I’m like, “That was a real superhero.”
And to me, I thought that was Archangel Michael. I always thought that was Archangel Michael. And years later in my healing journey, in me trying to help heal people, I’ve had to heal me. And that’s the hardest client I have, is me. Way hard client. I want to fire me all the time.
And in trying to heal me, I ended up going back and working on this moment. And I brought in Michael because he was the guy who saved me. So I’m like, “Okay, you’re my dude.” Him and Drake and Yeshua and quite a few others, they hang out with me when I do this work. And I’m like, “Let’s go, let’s go to the space, let’s do the work, let’s do the heavy lifting, let’s clean this up and let’s move on. It’s time to release this and let it go.”
And I was watching the whole scene play forward. I see my little soul come out, I see all the little lights that come around it, and I see them all watching like giddy. And I’m like, “Kay, Michael, this is it.” And I’m like grabbing his arm, like, “Put your arm out there, do it.” And he looks to me, puts his hand on my chest. He goes, “It’s not my arm, Vinny, it’s yours.”
And so I did it. And when I came out of that meditation, I had like serious bruises on my elbow right there. And so it was like a reminder that this is not just something energetic, this is physical. There’s a commingling, there’s a quantum weaving between all of this. What we can perceive and what we experience and what we think are all reality. It’s so powerful.
Trauma as Preparation for the NDE
MAYIM BIALIK: And when I think about then the NDE and what your soul experienced, even before you had an awareness of Drake, right? You were being summoned to this place that so many NDEers describe. Of, “I already know the skill to pull back and not be in that physical space of pain because I can remove myself and be above it,” as it were.
VINCENT TOLMAN: And as an adult, I’m like, “Oh, I was meditating.” It was trauma-induced meditation, but it was still meditation.
MAYIM BIALIK: Well, it’s a dissociative skill, right? It is. It’s a coping mechanism. But when people talk about — when people like Suzanne Giesemann talk about it, right, you’re dropping into this space. That’s the space where you’re receptive to this other wavelength, right? Yeah. I don’t even know what to say.
JONATHAN COHEN: It’s an unbelievable and powerful story. For people who are only listening, you may have heard Archie chime in. Howling. And pets are so aware of the emotional state. He came over — got up off the bed in the back and came over like he could feel the intensity. He may also need to pee, but I don’t know.
MAYIM BIALIK: Probably. As we kind of round out our time with you, what is your life like? What’s your life like energetically? What’s your purpose?
Life After the NDE: Heaven, Hell, Paradise, and School
VINCENT TOLMAN: Now it’s like heaven, hell, paradise, and school. It is each day a little different. And I don’t get squeamish to which day I’m in. I’m just coming out of a real weird phase with my body. It’s weird, some of the damage that I should have received with that blow — randomly, 5 weeks ago, I got a fever really bad, and all of a sudden I was almost paralyzed. And I’m just coming out of that now. Been walking for 4 days now. Wow.
And putting it to Spirit, medicine wasn’t able to help me. We tried every test. They thought I had spinal meningitis at first. They tested everything, couldn’t find anything wrong. And from pressure in the right area where spirits would tell me to put pressure on my body, I got my body to start functioning again. And I just keep — wherever they say, “Hey, put pressure right there,” I’ll do it right away. I’ve been doing that now for 5 weeks, and I’m getting better, like way better now. And the fact that I walked up here is actually one of my miracles I count today, because yesterday I couldn’t do that incline. Honestly. Yeah, we’re on a big hill.
JONATHAN COHEN: Yeah, it’s not an easy walk to get up there.
VINCENT TOLMAN: Yeah, such is life. But it wasn’t hard. It felt like I almost had my assistants, truly. I’m sure I did. I wasn’t looking for it, but I’m sure I did.
Connecting with Your Guides
JONATHAN COHEN: If people are listening and they haven’t died, do you have advice on how they can connect with their guides?
VINCENT TOLMAN: Yes. Number one, anyone who’s listening to this and you’re triggered, move on. I don’t share my experience to try to convince anyone of anything. What I do is I share my experience like a PR campaign for heaven and for who we really are. I want to awaken as many of us as possible to know that there’s no legion except for the legion of souls. And that’s the true religion, is the Legion of All Souls. And that our source is our religion, and that we don’t need separations from each other.
I share my experience so that we can reconnect, draw together, find solutions, and stop focusing so much on the problems. Because being an anti-problem in this universe, it invites more problems. We have to be pro-Source. We have to be pro-solution to bring more solutions. And we have to bring love everywhere we go as we do it. And as we do, we can knock that laundry list of problems this Earth has until there’s none left. And that will be heaven on Earth. And that’s coming.
JONATHAN COHEN: What do you think about Earth right now and what it’s going through? Like, what cycle are we in?
Earth’s Transition and the Future of Humanity
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: She’s in a shedding phase. So she’s in a phase where she has this higher place she’s going to go. She also wants to shed those who are not ready to go with her. And so she will shed them in two ways: shed them through death, or she’ll shed them by offloading a piece of a shell of herself, like a skin of herself. An energetic skin that’s very low vibrational. So that can be the safety net to capture those who aren’t ready to graduate with her.
But she’s getting ready for graduation. Is it going to happen tomorrow? No, we’ve got quite a few years before graduation, but it is a time that we all who are alive right now waited to come here now so we could witness. And some of us are some of the last volunteers to come for this transition.
JONATHAN COHEN: Do you feel like as it transitions, people are going to have an easier time connecting with spirit?
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Way more. They’ll want to connect to spirit more than their technology. And in fact, they’ll put technology down. And I saw in our distant future that where technology exists, it exists only in community spaces. It does not exist in your own home spaces anymore. And so that when you use it, you go to community space.
MAYIM BIALIK: That’s what it used to be like in the ’90s, right? The library for the computer, right? Or we would go at UCLA. We would — there was like a place you’d stand in line. Computer lab. Yeah. Yeah.
JONATHAN COHEN: You’d wait your turn. So that it’s not infiltrating every part of our existence. Like we go back to some semblance of human interaction. And then when I have to work, you have to work.
A Future Without Words and the Return of Lost Gifts
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: But in that future timeline, we get to a point where we don’t need to use words to communicate again. We had that a long time ago. We lost it. We also bring back one of the lost 12 tribes who had the power of levitation. So like that comes back to us. And that’s just one little nugget in the bucket of gold that comes in this transition phase.
But it comes with us earning it though. So we have to prove that we don’t have to choose to let our governments be source. We don’t. We don’t have to engage in what they want. We don’t. We can choose to not look, not be distracted, and choose to put our energy in positive places. And that moves more positive energy into your world, into your realm.
Closing Reflections
MAYIM BIALIK: This is such a powerful conversation. We’re so grateful that you shared so intimately.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: I’m so grateful to be here.
MAYIM BIALIK: The book is The Light After Death: My Journey to Heaven and Back. Thank you so much. And I wanted to end with a quote that I thought of that’s from the Talmud. We’ve talked about it before. “Every blade of grass has an angel that bends over it and whispers, grow, grow.” And I thought of that when you talked about the grass and just your entire journey and this notion that, yeah, that everything matters. Everything has its own angel, even a blade of grass.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: If you think of the Adam, the first creation, the A-D-A-M, and think of it that all of us carry so many A-T-O-Ms. That we are all the atom. And that every atom has an angel. Every atomic level of us has an angel.
MAYIM BIALIK: It’s beautiful. Vincent Todd Tolman, thank you so, so much.
VINCENT TODD TOLMAN: Thank you for having me. It’s been my pleasure.
MAYIM BIALIK: I got nothing else to say. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We’ll see you next time.
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