On Purpose Podcast: w/ Alex Cooper on Overcoming Bullying (Transcript)

Daddy gang, Daddy gang. Daddy gang, Daddy gang.

JAY SHETTY: And so it was just this beautiful feeling where she was like, yeah, I’d love Alex. And I was like, we’ve already got her scheduled. She’s coming on the show. It’s already happening.

ALEX COOPER: I’m honored.

JAY SHETTY: So anyway, you have a lot of love in our community for you. Thank you. We’re all big fans, but let’s dive straight into it.

ALEX COOPER: Get into it.

Life Beyond the Camera: Italy and Pasta

JAY SHETTY: For me, when I’m observing someone like you looking from the outside in, I think one of the things that fascinates me is like, you know, what’s someone interested in behind the camera? I just saw you in Italy. Me and my wife were so jealous and fomoing because we used to go to Italy every summer when we lived in London. We’re both born and raised in London. What was your favorite thing about Italy?

ALEX COOPER: The food, the pasta. I have never been. I rarely take like big vacations like that, and I was so excited to just try the pasta. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and so, you know, I don’t know if we’re like running to the fish department in Pennsylvania. You’re like, ooh, what can we eat?

So it was kind of like Italian, but it was kind of bad Italian. Sorry to everyone in Pennsylvania. And so, but I’ve always loved carbs, and I was an athlete, so I’m like, when I get there, it was breakfast, lunch, dinner, pasta. Let’s go. Dessert, pasta. Let’s go. So it was amazing. But we went to the Amalfi coast. That was beautiful. I just felt so fortunate to be there. And it was incredible.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. I was genuinely living through your stories, and I was just like, I want to go back. I want to go back. So we’re planning next year.

ALEX COOPER: Amazing.

JAY SHETTY: But everyone from the US felt like they were in Italy this summer.

ALEX COOPER: Everyone I know, every single person on my Instagram was in Italy. So I was like, okay, great. I’m going. This is the first year I won’t have FOMO because I always see people in these places, like Ibiza or, you know, Mykonos, and I’ve never been any of those places. And I was like, this year, I’m going to Italy, and I’m doing it. And it was amazing.

The Journey from Insecurity to Confidence

JAY SHETTY: One of the things I love about you in person that I’m observing is that you’re so warm, like from the moment you walked in. So warm. Like, you know, I love it when I always, when someone gets out their car and they arrive at my home, the first thing I want to do is hug them. And when I see that same energy, I’m like, this is awesome.

But one of the things people observe about you online is that you’re confident. You’re very confident on the podcast. You’re very confident in your stories, which is a beautiful quality. Was young Alex confident, too? I know we’ve heard about like you grew up in front of the camera with your father and like, you know. So was confidence always easy for you? And how has your journey with confidence evolved?

ALEX COOPER: The answer is no, absolutely not. It’s actually been interesting because the past year, I’ve really started to get into this in therapy with my therapist. And I haven’t really, like I’ve, I think I’ve mentioned it a couple times to the daddy gang, but I don’t talk about it a lot because I’m still kind of going through it in therapy.

When I was younger, I had a really hard time in school. Not grades wise. You know, I was a solid B. Let’s throw it out there. Maybe I tried a little harder. We could have gotten some A’s, but I was severely bullied for my looks. I was super, super skinny. People made fun of me, said that like I looked like I had an eating disorder. I had awful, awful acne to the point where like I would beg my parents to like let me stay home from school.

And I was, it was so bad. And I turned inward a lot. Like I never wanted my parents to know that I was going through it because I was ashamed. It’s embarrassing to not be able to connect with your peers and also to be, I was physically bullied. Like the boys would be like, let’s play a game. Her legs are so tiny. Like if we trip her, they will snap in half. And like it was awful.

And I never really talked about it, but what got me through it actually was my dad works in sports and he’s a producer. And I remember at like 7 years old, he handed me a camera and was like, go make something. And so my escape from really hate, like I hated everything about myself. I hated my skin, my face, my hair, my teeth, my body, my torso, my legs. Like I could pinpoint every single thing about myself that I hated. And it was almost everything exterior wise, but inside, I knew I was a good person. I knew I was a good daughter, I knew I was a good friend.

But I felt like it was all based on looks of why I was getting bullied. So I turned to creating content. That’s what I was, my escape. And I would go in my basement and I would make music videos or I would write scripts and make like little short films or silent films. And I would put on wigs and put on outfits and makeup. And it was the first time that I truly felt safe, like I could be fully myself. Meanwhile, I was fully alone. So I’m like, I’m like a weirdo in my basement.

But it was that and soccer specifically. I played extremely competitive soccer. And I realized why I felt so safe also and seen in soccer because it was all women. Can you score a goal? Like what are you doing? So what are you bringing to the team? You know.

So I don’t talk about that a lot because it was actually interesting. I recently was interviewed by the New York Times and I don’t do a lot of interviews. And it was in a follow up conversation. We had like an hour and a half interview. The reporter asked to do a follow up and somehow we got on the topic of my childhood and he and I started talking.

And I shared with him that I had been bullied. And quite literally, physically, his demeanor, his face, like his jaw dropped. And I could tell he was shocked. And everything that, that hour and a half interview I first did with him kind of was shattered because he was like, wait, what? Like you were bullied?

And I realized something. That moment was like the character I’ve created on Call Her Daddy. There’s this dichotomy of, for me, the girl that was bullied and then the girl I’ve created or the woman I’ve created in the show. But I think a lot of people have a hard time because everyone wants to put things in boxes, understanding like there’s no way Alex Cooper, the confident Call Her Daddy girl, could have also been bullied when she was younger.

And what I’ve come to realize in therapy is actually that ugly, awkward acne girl is who started Call Her Daddy. Because if I had not gone through that, there’s no way I would have started Call Her Daddy. I remember reading Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers and it was like you’ve got to have 10,000 hours to even be considered an expert. By eighth grade, I was considered an expert in editing. I was like obsessed with creating content.

And so that’s kind of a little bit of my story where I definitely struggle sometimes to open up about it because I’m also aware on the Internet sometimes people are like, you’re lying. That’s not true. And I think it’s hard for me because it’s still so raw. I still haven’t even fully gone there in therapy that I don’t talk about it a lot because I don’t want to be dismissed or questioned over something that is so personal and still really hard for me to talk about, I guess.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

The Shared Experience of Bullying

JAY SHETTY: Well, I want to thank you for trusting us and me and being vulnerable, but also talking about the complexity of vulnerability. I think we live at a time when, if someone is vulnerable, that everyone’s response will be like, “Oh,” or people think that’s why someone’s doing it. If they don’t think that, then they think you’re just being vulnerable. Sometimes it’s complex to say, well, maybe it wasn’t that hard if someone’s making it out. And then there’s a third where it’s like, well, can we just listen to someone’s experience and recognize that?

I think if all of us reflect, I just realized we have so much in common, which I had no idea. And if you looked at it from the outside, I don’t think people would think we have much in common at all. Which is partly why I love conversations like this, because I’m like, these are the conversations that bring me to life.

So I was bullied for being overweight growing up. I was obese growing up, and so was my wife, actually. And so separately, we didn’t know each other at the time, but we were both bullied for being overweight. I was bullied for being Indian because there weren’t many Indian kids in my school. And so the color of my skin, and all the rest of it. I was bullied for that. And I wasn’t the coolest kid in school. I was a straight A student, so I was the opposite. And it was considered dorky to be smart, especially where I grew up.

And so I dealt with all of that, too. And so when I’m hearing you say that, I was beaten up at school regularly. My mom used to come defend me in school. That was really embarrassing. And even now when people are like, “No way,” and I’m like, no, that was my entire childhood.

And for me, I turned to listening to Eminem and writing music. So I did a lot of spoken word. I used to produce music, which is why I love word and language and just the artistry of what you can do with words. And then when you said you played soccer, which I know, but I’m like, that is my first love. If I could be anything in the world, it would be a professional soccer player. Beyond everything, that is crazy to hear.

Finding Connection Through Podcasting

ALEX COOPER: Because I agree with you, and that is why I love podcasting and why I love your show. My show is you really have no idea what you can connect with someone on, empathize with someone on, or just learn about them. And I feel like we’ve gotten to a point where we want to discredit and call people out, and it’s scary to be open and vulnerable on the Internet.

And I think, almost my persona, there were parts of me that I had to try to claw back what I started for Call Her Daddy, because I was like, “Hold on. I need to also, there’s other parts to me other than the salacious, wild, crazy.” And it was a great transition for me, which I know we’ll get to.

But the bullying thing, when you’re that young and truly, all that matters is pure acceptance, and you feel so alone, you hate yourself. And I realized recently, I know my persona is one thing, and that’s why I always struggle with this. I’m like, “Oh.” I kind of ease my listeners into me talking about this, because it’s a complete different side of myself. But we all have that, right? We all have those things.

I remember the first time I shared this with my mother was when I was 21 years old in a cab, that I had been bullied. And I told her, “Mom, in high school, I used to put on three pairs of leggings, tape it to my leg, and then put on my school pants just to hope that everyone would think my legs were bigger.” And by the time I would have soccer practice after school, my joints were in so much pain from sitting in class.

And I told my mom this quite literally as we’re pulling up to Penn Station. She was getting out, and I was going to keep going. I told her this as she’s getting out of the cab, and she’s like, “Alex, what?” And it was my defense mechanism of, I don’t really want to talk about it, but I need to let my mom know what I was going through.

The Power of Parental Support

When I look back, thank God I had, my father has been the most supportive person in my life with my career, and I’m so grateful for that. Any moment I needed anything, he was like, “Let’s go find you.” I want to make a green screen in the basement. And he’s like, “Let’s go to Joanne Fabrics. Here we go. Let’s go to Home Depot. Let’s go to Lights.” It was, I was so fortunate to be raised by people who support me.

But I also realized I had these people pleasing tendencies because, and I still catch myself doing it in media, I just want to be liked because of my childhood, because of feeling left out. And it’s hard. And I think comparison, my best friend was the beautiful doll baby, perfect girl that I wanted to be.

And it’s like, there’s so many remedies I tried to look up on Google when I was younger of how to fix your skin and how to make your legs look bigger and is there a procedure? And it was like, I just can’t believe how much I hated myself, but I truly don’t believe I would be sitting here if I hadn’t gone through that.

Empathy Born from Pain

Because I think that’s the thing. You just said, you had no idea what I went through. Right. Why I feel like I am half decent at my job is when I sit down with people, there is this empathetic side to me that, yeah, maybe I don’t need to talk about because I don’t think I need to prove anything to anyone as to why I’m a good friend, why I’m a good daughter and partner.

But it really does come from feeling so alone and isolated and hating yourself that in those moments when I’m in my basement making and creating, I had to find a way to love myself because I found this journal of mine when I was younger. Oh, my God, it’s so sad. And it was really dark thoughts of, “What if I did this? Then the kids would feel so awful.”

And it’s like, whoa. I was really alone when I was younger and I never talked about it. And I had a friend recently that shared similar thoughts with me. We were best friends and I had no idea what she was going through and she had no idea what I was going through.

So it’s just a reminder. We really don’t know. And I know that’s such an oversight thing, but you have no idea what people are going through. And I think especially with social media, we can make judgments, especially snap judgments. You see a headline, you see a picture, but we have no idea what people are going through.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, absolutely. I couldn’t agree with you more. And I love the point that you’re making that, and I think everyone has it through some way, whether it was your parents, whether it was your friends, whether it was your peers. There was someone who made you feel less than in your childhood, inadequate, incomplete.

And now we’re all in our creative endeavors, seeking that completion through whatever role, character, whatever it may be. And I think people forget that half the time. The most successful people who do the most incredible things did them because they had this huge gap and hole to fill, and the world needed to fill that hole and gap. Only then to realize that that doesn’t work either, to then have to go the other way. But, sorry, you were going to say something.

The Dichotomy of Identity

ALEX COOPER: No, I agree with you. It’s like there’s a reason I’m so passionate and interested in what I’m doing. It’s because I love connecting with people. I love learning about people, because I know that the dichotomy of Call Her Daddy girl, versus ugly, awkward, acne girl. It’s like you don’t expect it and you don’t really understand it until I fully explain it, which I know I haven’t explained yet.

But when I sit down with people, I love learning about people because we’re all going through such similar things. It may look different, it may feel a little bit different, but depression, anxiety, happiness, love, joy, whatever emotion, we are all human beings, and we genuinely actually all can connect. Every single person can connect on at least one thing in the world.

And so I feel like we’ve kind of lost that along the way. And I hope, I think with shows like ours, I hope it brings a little bit of that authentic nature back, because we’re looking past what could be inside of something. We’re just looking on the surface level. And that, to me, is a nightmare because when I was younger, I didn’t want anyone to just take me by my looks because then I wouldn’t be given the time of day.

The Universal Nature of Pain

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, it’s incredible to hear that. I was literally having the same conversation. I was with one of my clients this morning, and we were talking about this, and he was saying how unrelatable his life has become now through his success and everything that he’s gone through.

And I looked at him and I was talking to him, and I said to him that, you know, I’ll be honest with you that whether someone’s rich or not, famous or not, if someone goes through a breakup, a breakup hurts the same. Because none of the other stuff is medicine. None of the other stuff is the cure.

So whether you have fame and status and wealth, or whether you don’t, if you go through a breakup, if you lose a parent, if you lost your job, or you missed out on opportunity, there is a similar amount of experience, human pain that you go through.

And I think what you’re saying is really interesting, though. I think you’re talking about that time. People always often ask, “What advice would you give to your younger self?” With you, I’m more interested in, what do you think your younger self would say to you now? If that acne girl, as you described her, saw you now, what would she say?

The Power of Finding Yourself in Isolation

ALEX COOPER: What would she think if younger me only knew, like, Alex, you’re going to make it. You’re going to, like, your dreams are going to come true. Like, you’re going to get out of this.

I remember one of the boys I went to middle school with that bullied me, ended up going to my college, and at that point, I had a little glory, and he was, like, trying to hit on me and giving me all this attention, and it only made me just feel actually awful because I was like, I’m the same person. I’m the same exact person, if not more grown and obviously experienced and have a little bit more of a higher IQ at this point in my life, but I’m the same person to my core.

And you’re only treating me differently because I got a prescription for Accutane, got some hair dye, got my braces off, put on some muscle because I’m playing soccer. Like, it’s quite literally just the physical. As to why you’re acting differently towards me.

I think my younger self would look at my older self and would not even believe it. Probably I actually was thinking, like, what would I say to someone that’s younger and going through this? And it’s like, there’s nothing of, like, “walk into school that day and stand up for yourself.” It’s actually like, find yourself in your alone moment because you’re all you have, truly.

And so trying to get peer approval—sure, it may make the moment a little bit easier, but, like, these people don’t actually matter. They matter to me, to my core of who they’ve made me, their impact on my childhood and making me hate myself.

Like, it’s so crazy. I always think about before, I would say about before, like, fifth or sixth grade, we’re so innocent. You have no almost concept of even what you truly look like or your peer dynamic or, oh, boys are looking at me, and I don’t have boobs yet, and my friend does. And so I’m not on their top five. And I know it sounds so, you know, just dumb, but it means so much when you’re that young.

So I look back and it’s like those years where you start especially to be judged for what you look like when we’re actually just trying to figure out inside who we are, it’s so problematic.

I definitely think that it affected me of what I put then. I did put emphasis on my looks. I can talk about that in therapy now. Like, hating every single thing about myself. Of course I was like, I want to go bleach my hair. I want to be the girl that I saw on the magazines. And then I did all of that. And I even look back at pictures of myself when I took it way too far. But it was all just for me to try to feel like the women that I thought had it all because they looked a certain way.

And I guess I would just tell my younger self, like, keep going down in that basement. It sounds creepy, guys. My basement was like finished, don’t worry. And leaning into your craft because in the darkest of moments, creating content actually formed who I am and gave me the strength to keep going. And it made me a full whole individual in my own right.

And when I was getting bullied and when I was going through those hard times, realizing I’m going to turn my passion into my purpose, that’s all I needed to be like, okay, let’s keep going. So I was really fortunate to find that at a young age. But I think a lot of people do when you’re at a young age and you are going through something so hard, you find that outlet, right? And everyone has that one thing that, like, I love this. And I’m just fortunate enough to have made that into my career.

Finding Coherence Through Pain

JAY SHETTY: Alex, I love listening to you. Like, I am just so happy right now because I’m like, what we’re hearing. And I love what you said earlier, that you’re in therapy right now, you’re working through this and so you haven’t shared so much of this, but I’m just hearing so much coherence and so much clarity. And it’s so beautiful, like hearing someone who’s gone through so much pain, so much stress. And yes, externally there’s the success, but then to hear the what’s happening internally and you’ve just reminded me of a moment of my life.

I’m just, I remember being at the final year of elementary school, or primary school, as we call it in London, and there was one girl that everyone fancied in class. And I fancied her too. Like, she was the cutest girl in school. We’re like 11 years old, so whatever cute means at 11. I think it was the first time I’d ever, like, liked a girl in, like, in that way.

I come late to school one day, and everyone’s looking at me weird. Like, everyone’s really looking at me really strange. And everyone’s laughing. And some of the girls, like, in the corner, like, laughing and pointing. And I’m thinking, what, what happened? What did I miss out on? I can’t remember. I was like, maybe doctor’s appointment, whatever.

Then I found out that all the guys who equally fancied this girl had told the girls that I fancied her. So not anyone else knew apart from just me. And I was considered the ugliest, fattest kid in school. And so now she knew this, all her friends were laughing.

And then the rest of that day, they all stood—I used to be a goalkeeper because I wasn’t very athletic at the time. I used to be a goal, and goalkeepers are very athletic. So no, no offense to goalkeepers. At least at that time. When you’re a kid in school, it’s okay.

ALEX COOPER: Jay.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I’m just like, yeah, you know, we got to clarify. Just being clear. Just being clear. I think goalkeepers are very David de Gea. All the way I’m in goal, and all the girls are standing behind the goal, and they’re just like, they’re like, “Jay, you can never get her. I can’t believe you thought it. She’s out of your league.” And they’re literally the whole day throughout the playground. Like, every time we’re playing football, soccer, they’re just behind the goal, like, making fun of me. And it’s such a, like, no, it makes me memory.

When Teachers Become Bullies

ALEX COOPER: It makes me honestly, because I think it’s interesting. I even watch you. We can smile through it now. But, like, it honestly makes me want to cry when I think about it, because when even hearing that, like, I can picture that happening to you because it happened to me. And it’s so traumatizing when that happens to you and you literally are just fighting back tears and you’re like, just get through it. Just get through it. And all you want to do is go home.

And it makes you hate interacting. It makes you nervous. You get really, like, clammed up, and it’s awful. Like, I remember when I was in middle school also, like, my teachers, I went to Catholic school and I just, like, never thought I belonged in Pennsylvania. I was like, what am I doing here? Like, I just, I knew I wanted to do something that was definitely, like, big. But I also knew this is a very conservative town, and we were shamed for anything regarding anything because it’s Catholic.

And I remember we weren’t allowed to wear makeup. And I was breaking out so bad. Like, it was so awful this week. And it was final, so I couldn’t skip school. I would beg my mom to let me skip school. And she, thank God to my mother, would see when I was really struggling, would be like, okay, you can stay home.

I put a tiny bit of concealer over some of my acne because I would sit next to this kid that was like the coolest kid in school, and I would always be so upset because he got to see that side of my face. And in front of the entire class, my teacher, I want to call her out, Mrs. G. I’ll just say, okay. I’m like, getting there.

She comes over to the entire class and looks at me, goes, “Alex, you’re wearing face makeup. Go to the bathroom and wash it off.” She escorted me into the bathroom, made me rub my skin raw in a school bathroom. No soap, just water scrubbing it off. My face was so red. And I remember just being like, can I go to the bathroom? She’s like, no, get back to class.

And I just trying to hold back tears, and my entire face was inflamed. And I was like, so now I’m not even experiencing bullying from kids. Like, this is like, how does this teacher not know? And she has kids. So it was like, it was a lot.

But I will say it made me who I am today. I look back and I’m like, had I not gone through all of that? Like I said earlier, I know who I am now. I didn’t back then. I was trying to figure it out. But I know who I am now, and I know my morals and my values. And I know that a lot of that stems from the pain that I went through.

And I am a very empathetic person. Maybe I don’t show that a lot on my show, but I think it’s all relative. I’m like, oh, if I could go back, would I redo it? No. Maybe I would have wish I told my parents a little bit more. But still, I think it made me really turn inward. And that created a different level of strength and self reliance that, like, I can’t even put into words.

The Strength of Going Inward

JAY SHETTY: So that is such a powerful point. I mean, you’ve made so many amazing points that I’m going to be drawing together for all our listeners at the end. But, like, that is such a powerful point that I think, and I don’t want to tell people to go either way, but there’s a different strength that comes from going inward than the strength that’s required from asking other people for help.

And both strengths are important, like going out and knowing to ask your mom or your dad or your best friend for help is extremely important. But knowing how to go and ask yourself for help internally is equally important. I think that is such a beautiful point. I’ve never heard it been put that way.

ALEX COOPER: Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: And I love that idea of, because I feel the same way. I felt so isolated and alone, and even today when I feel that way sometimes. But now it’s become solitude, it’s become a strength because I’ve got used to depending on myself, and I know what that feels like. And I’m like, I’m all I have, and I know what that feels like. So now it doesn’t scare me. Whereas at 12 or 13 or 14, it’s like, it really did.

The Evolution of Identity

I think one of the things we’re talking about is an evolution in identity and awareness. And this has been something that I’ve struggled with as things have become more public as well, because so I went from being that kid that was bullied to being fairly in with the cool kids in high school, to then going to college and being a budding spiritualist.

Like, my college life, if anyone met me at college, they’d be like, you know, Jay was like, nice and loving and spiritual and mindful and all these things that I was practicing. If you spoke to my high school friends, they’d be like, Jay was a party animal. He drank too much. He was crazy. Like, he was the class clown. Like, he tormented teachers. Like, that was my reputation.

And so you get this complete dichotomy. And I feel like every transition my external life took, I saw it as an opportunity to become who I wanted to be. So as I left high school, I wanted to become this mindful, thoughtful individual. And that’s what I was at college. And then I went off to be a monk, which was a whole different external identity. Left that, and now obviously doing all of this for the past few years and so many more in between.

But the point is that I’ve given myself permission to accept that I am the same and different person all at the same time. So beautiful, right? Like, and I’ve given myself that permission even when other people haven’t. And I feel like I’m constantly going through that. Where I did used to be a monk, I’m not now. I’m married, I have a home, I have businesses, I have money. Like, life has changed.

But there are parts of being a monk that are still me. They’re still there. I still think like a monk. And there are parts of my lifestyle that are still like a monk. There are parts that are not.

So, coming back to you, you’ve also been on an evolution of identities we’ve just talked about, a very clear one. You then have the beginning of the podcast, which is very well documented. It’s all there. I don’t want to dive into it. And it’s, that part of the journey is there. And then now it becomes another label where it’s like Spotify 60. Like, it just, it becomes so, like, diluted to a number and a brand.

And you can go wherever you want to go with this. But the question I’m asking is, what has been the hardest part of that evolution for you to where you are now? And what do you think people misinterpret about that evolution?

Navigating Confidence as a Woman in Business

ALEX COOPER: It is difficult because I feel, especially as a woman in the industry, I have to tiptoe on not being overly confident. Like, I think women can all feel it. Don’t be too much of this. Always veer on the side of, just be quiet.

Well, I’ve got a podcast. That’s a little bit difficult, right?

So I definitely have struggled with the person and who I’ve become is confident, and I want to embody this confident and determined badass CEO running my life, that any woman could do what I’m doing, right? In whatever aspect they want to do it in their life and whatever their passion is.

But it is difficult when then I walk into board meetings or meetings with these men that, and I’m like, I’m telling you what I want. And I feel like if a man was sitting here, it would be a very different conversation. If anything, he’d be going light.

And so I’ve struggled with, why am I always called the female Joe Rogan? Does anyone compare, say, oh, Joe Rogan’s the male Alex Cooper? No. We have similar numbers. We’ve really loyal audiences. We both are with Spotify, and no shade to Joe. I’m actually just saying it’s frustrating that it is a de-qualifier. It’s putting me, comparing me. It’s not even comparing me, they’re just saying, like, oh, she’s basically him. But, like, as a woman, I don’t want to be compared to anyone.

And I don’t. It’s been hard for me to do it in a way that, yeah, I’m not coming off as, like, angry and mad. And I think there has been times where I feel like I can’t be all in business mode at times as I want to be, because I’m, as a woman, going to be labeled. And it’s like, no, I actually just know what I want, and I’m a boss, and I am running a huge company, and I have so much going on, and I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, and I know what I want. What a concept.

So I think that is something that people have misinterpreted also on the Internet of like, oh, she comes off so, like, I don’t know if, I don’t even know if it’s aggressive. Like, I think as a woman, especially, even if I don’t know what I want, pretend I know what I want. Because we’re at a time where, as we’ve seen in the world, we are not equal to men. We don’t have autonomy over our bodies.

And so it for me, using my platform right now to be like, let me be the boldest I can be, even if people are a little taken aback, I hope it just helps other women be like, I’m going to go in today and advocate for myself to my boss, or I’m going to stand up to that person. Because it’s like, we’re getting nowhere if we don’t keep shoving it forward a little bit.

And I’ve gotten at times a little nervous, and I’m like, I could just sit and do my interviews and stay quiet, but that’s never who I’ve been. I’ve always had an opinion. I’m a Leo, okay? I know what I want.

But it is hard because it’s, it’s like, I think there’s a lot of people that are a little skeptical of a really? And I hate when people say loud. Am I talking that loud? No. People are like, she’s so loud. I’m like, am I loud? Or am I just speaking about something that maybe you don’t want to hear because you don’t like change, and we need change. So that’s something that I’m currently working on in therapy.

JAY SHETTY: I don’t think I’ve ever done, I’m about to clap on the podcast. I don’t think I’ve ever done this for any. That I’m just going to clap. I’m going to take a moment to clap, and there should be more people clapping.

ALEX COOPER: Hello.

JAY SHETTY: Join in. I need some more. Come on, helmet. There we go. Oh, my God.

No, I, and I’m, and I’ve genuinely, we’ve never done that podcast ever. Like, this is the only time, the first time that we honored. I really mean that. Everything you just said, like, it’s so true. I’m totally aligned with you.

I can only look at it from the perspective that I grew up with a powerhouse mom who worked, cooked, raised me and my younger sister, provided for us both. When my dad was figuring his life out, my mom was the breadwinner in the house. She was the one who helped me with my homework. She taught me how to shave. Like, that’s literally who my mom was in my life.

And so I grew up seeing the most powerful woman in the world, in my opinion, as a young boy. And, like, my mom would take me to all her meetings at night, whatever needed to happen. And then I was kind of like an older, like a father figure to my younger sister. And so I’ve seen it in her, too. And I’ve seen, like, the stuff she’s gone through at work and wherever it may be.

So I can only empathize from that perspective. But when I’m listening to you speak, I’m just like, it’s sad that we’re still there. Like, it just pains me. I’m like, how can we still be there? And how can we still be stuck there?

And I want to dive into the gender part with you because I do think it’s important that we talk about it here. I deal with that in a different way, and I’ve never talked about this either, but I feel like we’re both vibing.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

Breaking Out of Boxes: Being Multi-Dimensional

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And it’s also, like, I feel understood with you, and I also know that you’re, because you interview and you do such an exceptional job with it. It’s like, I feel like I’m getting to, like, open up my heart interviewing each other. I’m, like, opening up my heart to you.

But no, I mean, in the sense of, so I often get perceived as, like, well, Jay, you’re a monk, and you’re mindful, so you’re not allowed to be driven and ambitious. So if I have goals in a business meeting or a PR meeting or whatever it may be, it’s like, oh, but, Jay, like, you shouldn’t have goals. Right? I’m like, wait a minute.

ALEX COOPER: Why can I have both?

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Can I not be both? Am I not allowed to be both? Like, and so people are constantly like, but, Jay, like, and, and it’s like, if we reach for something. And I’ve, you know, I come from a background of, I was straight A’s, I worked in the corporate world. I’m highly organized. I’m a high performer. It comes naturally to me. And that’s me.

And then I was a monk, and I have the meditative side, and I meditate for two hours a day, and I wake up early and take cold showers and all that kind of stuff. But it’s like, to me, I’ve tried to put both together to create this real world because neither one makes me happy without the other.

So I get the perception of, well, Jay, how can you be mindful and driven? How can you be ambitious and meditate? How can, and I’m like, but that’s what we should be encouraging people to be.

ALEX COOPER: I feel like it’s because we have gotten so comfortable putting things in boxes. And I love that you’re saying that because it reminds me this is, I think, such a relatable topic. And take me and my deal and my podcast and being a public figure out of it.

You mentioned something about how you had these different stages of your life. And I feel like it’s so normal and healthy, honestly, to progress and almost be different people of your versions of yourself and try things out.

I remember in high school, when I was a little bit more now secure with my looks, okay? And I was now the jock. I was on the soccer team. I was a freshman. I was thriving with my soccer girls. They were, like, big on campus. I was, and I was still obsessed with making content. Right.

I was so embarrassed that I was in the video production class because people, my video production professor, God bless him, he was, I guess people would consider, like, a little nerdy and a little too techy. And I was like, I am so honored to be his student and have him teach me. We would watch movies after class. And, like, not in a creepy way, but he was educating me on film. And before me, too, we would watch Alfred Hitchcock. I remember the first time he showed me Psycho.

And so I was learning, but I lied to my peers because so my mom, I convinced my mom, please, can we go in and talk to the dean of students? I want to do video production for all four years as my elective. I never took health, which is interesting. Never learned about sex education. Okay. So interesting.

But I remember people being like, why are you in that video production class for all four years? This is so weird.

JAY SHETTY: And.

ALEX COOPER: And I was embarrassed and I lied and I was like, I don’t know, like they think I’m good at it. So like whatever. I don’t have to take health at least like whatever. I downplayed it. I was so passionate. I loved it more than soccer. It was my literally my existence. It felt like that is why I’m here. This is what I’m meant to do.

But I was so embarrassed because I couldn’t be a jock and also a tech girl, like a tech geek or whatever they would call me. And so I tried to hide that part of myself.

And I feel like a lot of people do that even hearing you say that. Like why can’t you be mindful and also determined? And it’s like I actually think that is the such a beautiful human being. When you can combine all the different parts of yourself to all be in a somewhat cohesive working situation. It works so much better for your mental health.

We shouldn’t all just be narrow minded. We shouldn’t just have one thing that we’re focused on. Are you, do you have a relationship? Are you a good friend? You don’t act like you’re to your romantic partner like you do to your friend. What about, are you a good son, a daughter? Like it all is in the scheme of being humans. We have to have multi-dimensional parts of ourselves.

But something about being in a box, it doesn’t work. Jay, if you’re both of those. Because it can’t be true. Well, why not?

And I think just talking about it. Anyone listening? You should not veer away from a passion because it doesn’t align with something other publicly that you’re doing. Because it’s like almost a contradiction. I love a contradiction. That is what I do. On my show they’re like, well, you said this last week. I changed my mind this week. And not in like a, okay, Alex. Well, we can’t believe anything you say, but things change and things shift.

But we have to be cognizant of how we’re embracing different parts of ourself. Because if we try to not do that and just stay in one lane, we’re not going to grow, we’re not going to be happy with ourselves and we’re just going to be appeasing the people around us instead of what do we want.

I appreciate you sharing that because I think it’s a really relatable thing of like, how can I be both? Of course you can be both. It’s just society has made us feel like, well, you’re a poser. You can’t be both. Which one isn’t as true? They’re both true.

JAY SHETTY: I’m about to clap again. This is just like, guys, we’re just clapping.

ALEX COOPER: Claps with Alex. Kudos.

JAY SHETTY: These are all TED Talks. Like, it’s just one after the other after the other. I’m like, no, no, no, no.

ALEX COOPER: You’re inspiring me.

The Question of Respect

JAY SHETTY: No, I’m just, I, I hope it’s okay. Like, I don’t, I’m, I’m opening up because I just feel like the stuff we’re talking about is, is relatable in different ways. Right. Like, I don’t know what it feels like to be a woman in the industry. I never will. To be like, I get that. I totally know what you mean.

But I, I get what I’m feeling in the same expression of, sometimes I feel told to be quiet. Sometimes I feel told to be like, well, Jay, you shouldn’t have that desire. Like, I’m told to, like, calm down sometimes. Not because I’m aggressive in any way, but in the sense of just because I’m a driven, ambitious person.

So going back to what you were saying earlier, there’s a part of it where it sounds like especially, and I love what you said, like, it’s not about, it’s not about what Joe’s doing. It’s not about what anyone’s doing. It’s just, why does everything have to be a comparison? And that then starts to be a respect issue, right? It starts to be an issue in, like, are we giving enough respect to what you’ve achieved and what you’ve built in the same way as are we giving respect to anyone else for what they’ve achieved and what they’ve built?

What has been your relationship, like, with respect?

The Evolution of Call Her Daddy: From Sex Talk to Mental Health

ALEX COOPER: It’s hard because there’s a couple dimensions to it, right? My listeners, quite literally, and I know this sounds corny, but truly feel like an extension of myself. We have an understanding. We have talked about the most deep, in-depth, maybe taboo topics, uncomfortable topics.

When I meet the Daddy Gang—shout out, everyone listening, that’s Daddy Gang—when I meet the Daddy Gang out in person, I always joke because whenever I’m with anyone, they come up to me. They’re like, “Oh, my God, Alex.” I’m like, “Hi, what’s up?” And they’re like, “Okay,” and they start talking.

The person that’s with me, that’s my friend or my parent or whatever, they’re like, “Oh, who is that from college or high school?” I’m like, “No, that’s Daddy Gang.” They’re like, “Wait, you guys just started talking about her breakup. What?”

We have this understanding of, if you listen to Call Her Daddy—and I’m sure you have that with your audience—you build such a rapport. The respect I have for the Daddy Gang and my listeners and people that give me a chance, it is so mutual, and it is so beautiful. I can’t, still to this day, believe what has been built of Call Her Daddy and the Daddy Gang and my relationship with them and theirs with me.

The Perfect Storm at Barstool Sports

I think where it becomes a little bit of a struggle is in the beginning of Call Her Daddy, it was this beautiful storm, right? A female-led podcast working at Barstool Sports, which people are like, “Oh, is that a misogynistic company?” It was actually the perfect storm of, “Oh, I’m a woman, and I’m going to have the biggest show at Barstool Sports. Watch me dance, okay?”

It was this really cool challenge, but I think because of the nature of the content at the beginning of Call Her Daddy, it’s difficult because I am in no way, shape, or form—I wouldn’t change one thing about the beginning of that show. It was so provocative and in your face, and women needed it.

At the time, it was like, instead of—because I think the feminist movement has had many different forms, right? It continues to change and evolve. At that point, as someone who had just graduated college, I was like, everyone can be a feminist, right? You can have a different version of how you associate with it, but as long as you believe in the equality of the sexes, boom, okay. And you respect women, great.

But for me, it was like, if men can say it to us, let’s say it right back, and they’re not going to like it, and it’s going to be really uncomfortable, but let’s go for it. I think a lot of people loved it. No, I know a lot of people loved it. The show blew up, and it was controversial, and it was amazing.

Breaking Out of the Box

My struggle was being so proud of what I built, but also, we just talked about that box of, “But I kind of want to talk about other stuff too.” I felt like I got pigeonholed into this, “That’s the girl that talks about sex and dating.”

It was really difficult for me to respect and acknowledge what had been built. It is brilliant what Call Her Daddy original days was. But I also—now I’m 28, and I started it at 22, 23. I don’t want to be the same person I was at 22. I’m not. I have a different outlook on life. I have a greater interest in what’s happening in the world, in making a difference.

Are you kidding me? At 22, I was like, “Let’s drink. Let’s talk about sex, and let’s have fun.” And that was so—and that’s what you should be doing, right, at that age. But now, as I’ve tried to transition the show, not because—and I want to clarify, no one has told me to do this. I made the decision because two things happened in the pandemic.

The Pandemic Shift: Opening Up About Mental Health

I think when you talk about something like sex, and people are so freaked out by that concept and a little nervous to—I remember back in the day—engage with the brand because it was like, “Oh, they’re talking about sex.” That is one of the most intimate topics that you can really talk about. And a universally inclusive topic, right? We all think about it in some capacity.

I felt like if I can talk that deeply and that openly and that vulnerably on this platform to millions of people—still in therapy about that, why was I so okay doing that? We’re working on it, okay.

JAY SHETTY: But—

ALEX COOPER: But the point is, if I can do that, my audience was ready when the pandemic hit. “We need you to talk about some other stuff because none of us are enjoying our sex life right now. But we trust you enough, Alex. Let’s have deeper conversations.”

That is when I began talking about mental health. That is when I opened up and acknowledged I’m in therapy. The stigma around therapy to, I know, a lot of people is, “What’s wrong with you?” My mother is a psychologist. I grew up where mental health was the number one prerequisite in the house. “How’s your mental health? What’s going on in your head? Where are you at?”

So I think that transition for Call Her Daddy for me felt so organic. It was like, of course we got to talk about more stuff. It’s like, eventually you graduate from high school, you got to go to college. Or Algebra 1, we go to Algebra 2. Call Her Daddy is cemented as one of the best sex and relationship podcasts. There’s 80 episodes. It is fire. You can learn some amazing tricks of the trade, okay? But what’s next?

Embracing Change and Growth

I could feel my audience ready for something new. And I was ready for something new. I wanted to explore other topics. Not that I’m not going to continue to talk about those things. I think that was a difficult transition, that some people that don’t want change—not my audience, my audience not only stayed with me, but then grew because people were like, “Oh, we’re spicing it up a little bit. There’s more topics, there’s more conversations, just not about sex.”

But I saw people that didn’t like the show in the beginning. They’re like, “Nope, you’re still the sex girl. You cannot be talking about mental health and talking about sex. You can’t tell me you’re talking about sex in a deep, deep conversation that has to do with mental health or you’re not getting deep enough.”

Well, no pun intended, but when I talk about that, it’s like what we’re going through in the world right now with sexual identity and fluidity and trying to understand—I mean, it’s so beautiful now that we’ve started to embrace the concept of non-binary. It’s like letting people do what they feel comfortable doing. That is mental health and that is sex, right?

So I think the struggle of respect has been people not loving me venturing out and straying away from what initially was the bread and butter of Call Her Daddy. I have been an athlete my whole life, Jay. I love a challenge. When someone tells me I can’t do something—but I will not lie, it has been so hard trying to stay true to myself, authentic to the content, but also knowing and cognizant of the fact that there are people that are like, “She’s still sex. It’s just sex.” And I’m like, “What?”

So it’s a difficult balance, but I’ve tried to just block out the noise, not read as many of the comments.

The New Format: Celebrity Interviews with Depth

Now I think through the new kind of version of the show, it’s so cool that I’ve taken on these interviews. Going back to what we kind of said in the beginning, I’m having on these celebrity guests that everyone’s like, “Oh, you’re going to have on celebrities now.” But the point was, and it goes back to what we were saying earlier, I love this challenge of, “You’re going to leave and you will relate to Demi Lovato, you will relate to Miley Cyrus, you will relate to Chelsea Handler.”

These people that are coming on that seem so—their life is so unattainable. No, we can relate to them. I’ve been fortunate that this new format—and I think through my therapy journey, and just because I know myself and I am a warm person, I am so interested in people’s lives. I want to understand people better. It makes me better. It makes my audience better.

Almost every single time a guest leaves Call Her Daddy, they say, “Wow, I have never felt so comfortable in an interview. And I’ve never opened up as much as I did in this interview.” I take pride in that because I put a lot of effort into making people feel comfortable.

Because when you’re talking about really, really intense topics like we’re talking about today, you need to be open-minded, you need to come into it unbiased, and you need to provide a space where it’s like, “You’re safe. Let’s have a conversation and no judgment.”

Humanizing Celebrity Experiences

I think a lot of these celebrities feel extreme—listen, they have so—there is no denying, we’re not saying they don’t have privilege and they don’t have so many resources we don’t have. But it’s trying to humanize. I think in a cool way, my listeners have loved the new kind of version of Call Her Daddy.

Then I guess this is the last part of—also, I don’t plan. There’s one day that it’s not like, “I need an episode like this one day, and then this.” It’s every week. I walk in and I’m like, I think I know who I want to interview because it feels right.

I read all the DMs from the Daddy Gang and I still have all my social media accounts. No one runs the Call Her Daddy account or my account. I just read all these DMs of someone struggling with a narcissistic parent. And immediately I’m like, “Let’s get Dr. Ramani on. Let’s have her come on. Let’s talk about how to survive a narcissistic relationship.”

It ebbs and flows. If I would love to be like, “I have this perfect structure,” I am eyeballing it because I also am a consumer. I’m like, “What am I interested in?” Because I’m so—I love being in tune with my audience that I’m able to be like, “I know what they want, because I want it too.” It’s an ebbing and flowing relationship.

Staying True to Myself

With respect, there’s always going to be haters. There’s always going to be people that want me to fail. But I do think, specifically this last year, I’ve come really into my own of, “I want to make amazing content for the people that want to listen, and if you don’t want to listen, you don’t have to listen.”

But I always do say give it a chance, because you will be surprised that the new Call Her Daddy—it’s different and I’m really proud of it, because I put a lot of work into it.

JAY SHETTY: And you should be. I personally am a fan and I’ve loved the evolution of it. I’ve watched a ton of the interviews. I mean, for me, I couldn’t agree with you more. Whoever sits in front of me, whether they’re a celebrity, whether they’re not, whether they’re a scientist, a doctor, a host, whatever they may be, I just want to create exactly what you said. We’re so aligned on that.

Create a safe space where people can feel they can be themselves and they’re not being forced to be someone, and they’re not being forced to be the one version that we see. But I think what I really took away from what you’re saying is that even though you’re right, I know what you’re saying, that there’s no weekly structure. It’s not like you’re trying to figure out, “Oh, we’re going to do this and that.”

Actually, when you hear you explain—when I just heard you explain how sex and mental health are so interconnected, that is very coherent and that’s very cohesive. So even if there isn’t a plan every week of who you’re talking to, all that kind of stuff, that makes a lot of sense.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

The Interconnection of All Human Experience

JAY SHETTY: And it’s like, no one would ever know that or think about that. This is what I think we think so shallow now, right? Everything’s a shallow thought. When I say shallow, I don’t mean the subject matter. I mean how deeply we consider an idea.

So Alex has changed what she talks about on her podcast slightly, right? She’s still doing the sex podcast. She’s still talking about those things, but she’s also talking about mental health and therapy and whatever she wants to talk about. That’s a shallow thought. “Oh, she’s just—Spotify’s told her to do that. She can’t talk about sex anymore because whatever.” Right? Whatever it is, I don’t know what it is. I’m literally making stuff up.

But then when you take that thought deeper, you go, “Okay, wait. When I actually listen to Alex explain it, she’s like, I should be willing to talk about mental health and sex because they’re so interconnected. I should be able to talk about mental health and anything in my life because it’s so interconnected and I feel it.”

I just love that description. I’m just holding on to that. That’s my biggest takeaway from what you said because I think it’s unhealthy mentally, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically for us to think that any subject matter is separate from any other in the human experience.

The Evolution of Call Her Daddy: From Personal Journey to Platform for Change

ALEX COOPER: I agree. And I feel like especially with sex and having been a woman and trying to now—I’m not trying to get away from it. I’m just trying to prove there are other things about me. What a concept that respect has been something that I keep pushing up against. It almost, I think at first, I’ll be honest, made me want to go so far away from it because it’s what everyone just wanted to pigeonhole me as.

And I feel like especially with the season two that’s going to come out of Call Her Daddy at the end of September into October, you’re going to see a shift. Because I feel like when I was in my 20s, I kind of mentioned this earlier, everyone’s self-involved. We’re just trying to understand. I remember getting out of college being so miserable. I hated my job, I hated my life. I was like, what am I doing with my life? You’re just trying to quite literally survive.

And where I’m at now in my life at 28, I just turned 28 and I genuinely have a different interest for what is happening in the world. I know this may not be the most relatable thing, but I have one of the biggest platforms specifically. Well, I just found out my show is the number one biggest listened to show for women in the world for a podcast.

All I think when I hear that—that’s great, let’s frame it, my mom may frame it—responsibility. That’s what I take from that. How am I not going to start talking about deeper topics and things that are genuinely going to affect generations to come? Having such a big platform, I feel a sense of responsibility. What am I doing? Open my eyes, start reading the news.

I just feel there’s a different level that I’m taking this show to and it’s not to become preachy and it’s not to become political and it’s not to become in your face. It’s going to have that same genuine nature Call Her Daddy has always had. I am coming to them, just having a conversation. I want both sides to participate. I want people to feel so comfortable. I’m not asking you anything. I’m just wanting people to listen and to maybe have a thought-provoking conversation that could potentially change your mind or strengthen your view on something.

The Power of Long-Form Conversation

ALEX COOPER: I feel like in a world of such snap judgment because of social media, people are inclined to make decisions so quickly based off of a headline or a photo or whatever it is or gossip. And what I want to do with Call Her Daddy is, wouldn’t you feel so much better if you could make your decision with a more 360 POV on something?

And that is what podcasting does. Long form sit downs. Get to know someone, get to understand a topic, an issue, an argument, and then make your judgment. Because that is amazing. If you leave being like, “I have the same opinion,” amazing. But now don’t you feel better that you have a bit more of an educated opinion rather than a snap judgment?

Or most times what people do when they listen to Call Her Daddy is, “Okay, I admit I was judging them. My mind changed.” I just had someone on and all of the DMs were, “Oh, I don’t know if I really thought I liked them anymore. And now I’m obsessed again because I forgot what they went through in their life and I was completely unattached to the empathy level because all I see is social media posts.”

So I hope people feel that. And again, I’m not trying to be this preachy—I don’t know what I’m doing half the time—but I just feel a sense of responsibility and I hope that my audience can feel like it’s just a journey because what else are we doing here? I want everyone to have fun. We want to have laughs. We’re going to continue to have that.

And especially being a woman right now, it’s like if I don’t speak up, I’m not doing my job and I won’t be able to sleep at night knowing that I didn’t do something that actually was just right in front of me that I could have done. And I have such a platform. So I’m sure everyone can know what I’m kind of talking about. But yeah, vote.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, personally hearing that—and you don’t need to hear this from me, and I’m only saying it because I genuinely mean it—and for whatever it’s worth, it’s like, I love that. I personally appreciate that so much because I only went out to start building a platform in the desire to serve.

We only started this journey hoping that we’d be able to help people. It never came from anything else. It started in that place, and it’s still in that place today. And when I hear someone who’s like, “Hey, I was 22, and now I’m growing up and this is life,” I look at that and I go, I love people who do that.

A lot of people that I work with in my coaching practice, that’s where they are. They became famous through music, or they became famous through movies, or they became famous through whatever, and now they’re having that same journey in their life where they go, “Jay, I have hundreds of millions of people who listen to me and they care about what I have to say. I don’t want to be the person who just has a great home, business, and life. I want to do more than that.”

And to me, I think when people who have the opportunity to say that, say that and then go follow it up, that’s when the world starts becoming a better place.

Taking Education Public

ALEX COOPER: It does. And I think it is really—it’s a hard concept, especially when you have a podcast. I don’t see all these people, right? When I’m told, “Oh, your podcast is also the biggest podcast for millennials and Gen Z,” I’m like, so that is an audience that has the opportunity to quite literally change the world.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: What am I doing? And it doesn’t need to be every episode. I just think there’s a different level of awareness I have right now, and I don’t have it figured out. I am not perfect by any means. I definitely present a certain way on social media for my business. But what I’m trying to do is just take my education public and just use this platform and not be better than anyone. Just genuinely be like, “I’m learning.”

I literally said to my team, and I was like, I will publicly say this—a couple years ago, I remember when I got out of college, I had to call my dad and be like, “I don’t know how to vote, Dad. What? I’m in Boston. I’m from Pennsylvania. Where am I registered? I don’t even know how to vote.”

And I am not ashamed to say that. I think people feel so overwhelmed with certain things in life. College does not prepare us for a lot, right? And there’s a lot that we’re like, what are we doing? And I think when you have people on platforms that are acting like you don’t know what you’re doing, it makes you feel ashamed, it makes you feel insecure, and then you just don’t do anything.

So I think Call Her Daddy, also this season, is really trying to just make it ingestible for everyone. I’m with you guys. I am also still—a couple years ago, my dad was helping me on TurboTax. Okay. I didn’t know what I was doing, but I’m learning and I hope that people appreciate me just trying to make a little bit of a change because there’s a lot of power in podcasting and in these really intimate conversations.

That’s the best part about podcasting. It is such an intimate relationship that we have with our listeners and I don’t take it for granted. So there you go.

The Pressure to Know It All

JAY SHETTY: No, you’re spot on. I think we genuinely close on when we think we’re surrounded by a community of people who know it all. And I think that’s when people start to lie. That’s when people start to hide.

I think everyone—millennials and Gen Z—everyone right now feels the pressure to know how to be an investor. Because investing is the cool thing, right? And it’s like if you don’t know how to buy an NFT, if you don’t know how to buy crypto when it was booming and everyone was talking big, it was like, if you didn’t know how to do those things, it was like, who are you? You can’t be cool if you don’t know how to vote. Oh, well then you don’t care. Or all of these things.

And it’s like, I don’t think any of those things were ever explained to anyone. And we’re just listening to one random 30-second TikTok and being like, “Oh my God, I need to buy that. I need to do this.” And I fully agree with what you’re saying.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, social media has definitely made us all feel a little bit like we’re behind. What am I missing? Or I don’t—oh, I’m not in on that. Or I’m feeling excluded, or maybe I’m not cool enough. I don’t look a certain way, I don’t know how to do something.

And it’s like, that’s what I’ve tried to take a little step back from social media recently and really focus on—I have the same three best friends since I was six years old. I have my family, I have my relationship. I have my amazing team now, Call Her Daddy, comprised of all women. They’re amazing. I feel so—everyone’s always like, “What’s the best thing that came from your Spotify deal?” And I was like, that I can now hire a team of these amazing people.

Setting Boundaries with Social Media

ALEX COOPER: But I do feel like you have to also—everything’s with a grain of salt on social media. Try to also just be more present. I found myself the other month on my phone on TikTok, scrolling. I’m by myself. There’s a beautiful sunset at my new house. And I’m scrolling on TikTok.

And I for a minute had this moment of, hold on. I’m watching a random girl in her bedroom doing whatever she’s doing and I don’t know her. And I’m sitting on my couch. Lovely woman, whoever she is, wasting my time watching someone that I don’t know. And this is not changing my life. Go outside, Alex. Go watch the sunset. Go take my dog on a walk. Be present.

Because it gives me anxiety. I realize when I don’t feel good enough, I don’t feel pretty enough. I don’t feel like I’m fitting the body standard. And then I start to spiral and it’s like, why are we doing this to ourselves if we know that it’s not helping us?

I’m just trying to be a little bit more in the moment with my thoughts. Okay, so step back. You can take it out of your hand and put it down. And I know it’s quite literally—doctors are comparing it to an addiction. So that’s also something that’s helped me with my mental health recently. It’s like really putting boundaries on social media.

JAY SHETTY: What are some of the new habits of this new Alex and values of this new Alex that are really becoming integrated into your life? You just said learning about what’s happening in the world, being well informed, educating yourself, taking that online. Obviously therapy we’ve talked about. What are some of the smaller habits that you’ve developed? That’s one of them. And that’s a beautiful one.

The Power of Disconnecting from Social Media

ALEX COOPER: I always joked, I’m like, I’m a vowel. I never say this word again. In the beginning of Call Her Daddy, and shortly, kind of in the pandemic, went down a spiral of reading Reddit pages about myself and awful, awful things about myself. And I was crushed.

Like I said earlier, being bullied, I am a full people pleaser. I want everyone to like me. If I see that one comment, I’m like, and then it’s going to affect my content the next week and I’m going to have a Freudian slip and somehow talk about something that I saw in the comment. I’m trying to like, oh, God, my God.

It was about like a year or so ago, sat down, I think it was with my therapist. And I said, “I am never going to open this app again and if I do, I’m hurting Call Her Daddy.” And I almost got it helped me take it out of myself of like, because I was, it was affecting my content. And I stopped looking at these people that I remember.

I always used to also be like, they’re just hurting in their own life. And we can talk about why people are trolls on the Internet for hours, but it’s not my problem. I need to drown that out. Whatever those people are going through, why ever they hate me, I know I’m a good person. I know what I’m trying to do.

So I stopped reading that about a year ago. And my life, I feel like a different human being. I am taking notes from people that truly care about me. And I’m someone that my producer was like, “It’s interesting. You love a note.” I love a note. I love someone to tell me when I’m doing something wrong, what I’m doing wrong. I love a note.

And so I don’t surround myself with yes people. I’m very, I came to LA and I had to make a decision of, you know, who I wanted to hang out with, what I wanted to do. And like, I am sticking to the people that I have known my whole life. I am not, not open to meeting new friends. I have made new friends in LA, but I’m very specific about who I share my time with and I think that is totally fair to say.

And I think sometimes people like, “Oh, this is that,” or “Oh, you don’t have as many friends.” I am taking care of my mental health by making sure the people that I’m surrounded with aren’t yes people, because they’re like, “Oh, we want to come and hang out in Alex’s cool house with her cool job.”

It’s people that are like, “Check yourself. What’s up? Like, how are you doing?” And I can do the same to them. And so I have made efforts to make sure who I’m around, not only they, they don’t even make me feel good. It’s that they’re real with me and they treat me. If all this was gone tomorrow, I know those people are going to still be there.

Finding Grounding Through Therapy and Meditation

And I think with social media, I’ve kind of just, I’ve really gone through periods where my, I felt like my whole existence was immersed and defiant or defined by social media and, and literally just through meditating, being alone with my thoughts, going through therapy of when you actually dissect, does something make you feel bad? Yes. So why are you doing it? It’s so simple and it is so hard. But the more that I train my brain, it’s really helped me.

And I think when I go through really awful times on social media, if people are coming at me, if I get the mean comments, this is something that keeps me kind of grounded, is I always get through something in the moment. When you are going through something, it is awful and it can be heart wrenching. You can feel it physically, you can feel alone, you can feel scared. Whatever feeling comes when something bad is happening in your life, but you get through it.

And when you get through it, you look back and you’re always like, “Oh, I wish I could have told myself, like, stop stressing, stop overthinking, stop.” So what I’ve had to do is in the moment, moments of crisis, when I’m freaking out, having a panic attack, anxiety, I’m like, “Okay, hold on. In two days this will be over.”

Let’s go on a walk, let’s take a breath, let’s call people I love, let’s talk to my mom, let’s call my therapist, let’s like take all of the stuff that’s happening in my head and just calm, pause, connect with people that love me and get out of your kind of psychosis that’s happening in your brain. You’re going over and over.

I always think about, like, I always get through it. I’ve had so many moments where I’m freaking out. I always get through it. I always. So look at the other side and it’s, I don’t know, it’s easier said than done again. But like, it helps me be like I’m going to be there in a couple days or hours. So like this, it’s not as bad as it feels. Yeah, I don’t know.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, it does, it does. I think what you’re describing is like everything is simply a pattern of thought, right? It’s just a pattern of thoughts. And the current pattern of thoughts we all have are not serving us, they’re not helping us, they’re not improving our lives.

And the hard part is knowing which thoughts to change and then how to change them. And so the tools you just gave us were really simple ways and practical ways that anyone can start changing their thoughts. And if I literally, if we just understood that, that simply by changing your thoughts, you can transform every human experience in the world, whether it’s sitting in a cold plunge and you’re just changing your thoughts, whether it’s, you know, doing a hike in the morning, whether it’s just getting to the gym. Right. Like, whatever it is, it’s just changing your thoughts. And it’s beautiful to hear you figure that out and work through that.

The Power of Journaling Through Crisis

ALEX COOPER: Also, journaling. I’ve had when I go through really hard times, I always journal during and after. And then when I’m going through a crisis again, I’ll read the after and even the during. And I’m like, “I was spiraling. Look where I am now. I’m sitting on the beach. Like, what I’m, or I’m driving to work. Everything’s okay.”

We get through. I have gone through people dying, and it’s like, it is the worst. It is the worst. But you have to find a way to keep going. You have to find the positive. Right? And I have a lot of friends connected through trauma of things that happen in our childhood.

And it’s like I had my two best girlfriends come and visit me, and they were with me for a week, and we were just talking about life. “How am I going to keep going?” But then you remember the moment after that where you’re laughing on the beach with your friend, and you’re like, “Imagine if I didn’t keep going. I wouldn’t have this beautiful moment with these people.”

And so it’s like always trying to look to the other side, and if you can get there, you can take that breath and be like, “Thank God I hung in there.”

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. What’s a belief that you think you’ve had about yourself that you think led you down the wrong path? Like, is there a specific belief that you once had about yourself that you think kind of went the other way? Like you just said, sometimes you have to push through.

ALEX COOPER: Right?

JAY SHETTY: Sometimes we carry a belief about ourselves and we end up somewhere we don’t want to be.

Defending Your Character as a Friend

ALEX COOPER: I think because of things that have happened publicly, and there’s so many things that have happened publicly for me in my career, I would say it really hurts me when people assume I’m a bad friend. My entire life, that has been the one thing I have felt I’m proud of myself for, truly. Like, my friendships are so valuable to me, and I take such pride in those relationships.

And when you have public things and it happens to happen with a woman, it’s like the person that comes out on top is the villain, and then the person that didn’t is the victim. And I’m not, like, going at anyone saying that they’re calling themselves a victim. I’m just saying that’s how the public perceives it. And so as a woman, it upsets me.

And I would find myself really struggling at times being like, “I know I’m a great friend.” Like, I had a friend recently say to me, because she’s going through something and almost like, through the tools of my show and therapy, she mentioned to me, she was like, “I have never, I think I’ve never felt you being a better friend than in this moment. Like, I can’t thank you for how much you’re taking on for me.”

And I was like, “I’m in a good place right now. Like, it’s all I can picture doing is helping a friend and being there for someone. Because you’ve been there for me when I’ve been at the absolute bottom. That’s how friendship works, right?”

And I think friendships are so beautiful because you have to choose to keep it moving, keep it strong. A romantic relationship, it’s there. You’re together all the time. Friendship, that’s hard. My friends live across the country. My three best friends do not live in Los Angeles, California. And it is a constant effort. And they know me just as much as I know them. And we have been through so much together.

But I think that kind of ate at me. And I’m sure you’ve had it of like, there’s nothing worse than when someone believes something about you that you’re like, “Oh, like, I want to prove it’s, that’s not true.” And I have so many things that could prove that that’s not true.

But I’ve had to work on in therapy of, like, I can’t please everyone. And through, do my friends know I’m a good friend? That’s all that matters. The Internet thinking I’m this or that. Like, if you like my show, you’re going to listen, but you’re not listening because I’m a good friend. So it’s like, I need to prioritize knowing who I am, knowing how deeply I feel for these people that I consider family. That’s all that matters. And I don’t need to prove that.

But I definitely went down moments of like, “Oh, my God, am I trying to talk about this in an episode? Prove.” It’s like, Alex, you, if I tried to whack a mole, everything people think about me, I’m not going to get done interviews. I’ll be just doing solo episodes for the rest of my career. So that was something that was kind of hard.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And there’d still be something about your explanation that wouldn’t be enough.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

Letting Go of Being Understood

JAY SHETTY: And I found that. I mean, I was asked in a podcast a few years ago, someone asked me the question, “What’s something you used to value that you don’t value anymore?” And it was a really great question. And we have the video of it. I’m, like, sitting there thinking about it, and you can tell it’s, you know, when you ask a question and you actually have to think rather than like, you’ve got a million things to say.

And I said, “Being understood.” I was like, “I just don’t value being understood anymore.” Because it’s just, it killed me, that desire I had. And I get that people, it’s like, for years, I just wanted people to know I was a good person and that I had pure intentions and I was trying to serve the world. And I was.

And I was like, “You know what? No one’s going to give me the benefit of the doubt. No one cares.” And at the end of the day, I have to lose that desire to be misunderstood. Sorry. To be understood. Because most people are going to misunderstand me, and that’s okay. That is, like, freed me.

ALEX COOPER: That is so beautiful because I relate to that deeply. And I love that you’re saying that because being understood is so overrated and exhausting. Because who you’re mostly trying now in the age of social media to be understood by is people you don’t even know.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And what about the people you do know? How much time are you putting? Are we put, it was a measure for me of, am I putting more effort into the people I don’t know than the people I do know? That’s, check yourself, because I’ve done that to myself.

And I love that you said that, because it, when you get to that point, it is so freeing because you’re like, “I’m me. I don’t need, if I say something people take the wrong way, I don’t need to not be like, ‘Oh, my God, I promise I’m a good person.’ No, you either know or you don’t.”

And I’m not going to run around and chase people and try to convince people of my character. I go to sleep at night. I know I am a good daughter, a good partner and a good friend. And I know I am not perfect by any means, but I am trying every day through therapy, through just looking inward a lot and trying to be with my thoughts and being more present with the uncomfortable silent moments, trying to just be a better person.

And I think it sounds corny even when I say it out loud, but, like, what else are we here to do? You know what I mean? Are you good with the people you love and who love you? That’s kind of all that matters and the rest is noise. And we have huge platforms and it’s so great. But if all of it ended tomorrow, I would be okay.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And I don’t think I could have said that a couple years ago. And I don’t want it to end. I love you all. But it is a good feeling because then I can really put all of me into the podcast because it’s like I’m going to be me and I’m going to do me until I don’t want to do it anymore and no one can tell me otherwise. You know what I mean? So it’s kind of a freeing feeling.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And here’s what we know. We know that the people that do listen to us every week, they do know us. Like, I feel so seen, heard and understood by my community that listens to me here. And whether they listen to the solos or these guest episodes, like, I know they know me, they understand me.

And I always say that if you see me on the streets, please come and say hello, because we can have a great conversation. But at the same time as that, one thing I do know is that I read a study that said you have to spend 200 hours with someone to consider, to know them deeply.

And I started thinking about who in the world have I spent 200 hours with? And I started to realize it wasn’t that many people. And that wasn’t something that made me sad. It just made me value those people so much more.

So my best friend, who’s my best man at my wedding, I’ve known him for 18 years and I still talk to him three or four times a week. I don’t know where I find the time. I don’t know where he finds the time. But every car journey, whatever I’m doing around LA, I’ll call him. He’s in London, so he has an eight hour time difference too. And he always picks up.

We always find a way to connect and our friendship’s got better since I left England. And so all my best friends are in London because that’s where I grew up. My family’s in London, my wife’s family’s in London.

So for us, like I totally hear what you’re saying. That statement you made that really resonated with me today on top of what I said was that “being understood is overrated.” And it’s so true because I would say that I’m still trying to understand even the people I’ve spent 200 hours with. So how am I expecting someone who met me once for two minutes to absolutely understand the 200 hour version of me?

ALEX COOPER: I would hope not. I hope I’m complex enough that you can’t figure me out in a minute. No, I really love that. And I think that I always say to anyone, especially in their 20s, 30s, when you’re out of college, it is so depleting at times because you are stripped of that immediate comfort.

Friends in proximity wise, and you’re immediately all of a sudden across the country and your friends are across and you’re like, I don’t have friends. And it’s a really isolating and lonely time.

But I would start with, do you have one person? Do you have one person that you can call? That’s really all that matters. And of course we want friend groups, we want friendships, we want connections, we want to go to parties. Guys, come on. But you have to just start slow with yourselves.

And I think a lot of times in your twenties you almost get dismembered and you have to build yourself back up and we’re really hard on ourselves with those friendships. It’s so much easier said than done. But it is a great reward when you can maintain those because they’re beautiful.

And like I said, you’re not having sex with these people, hopefully. So your friends are just there because they love you for you. Hopefully it gets messy. Don’t do it guys. But no, it’s a really powerful relationship.

Navigating Relationships in the Public Eye

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, we’ve talked about friendships and I want to talk about relationships a bit because it’s a big thing here on On Purpose. And I’m asking this because for me, and this is what we do, right? And this is why I’m very clear on this and this is one of the best skills I learned from training to become a monk was to not project my intentions onto other people’s actions.

So what we often do is when we see someone who does the same thing as us, we assume they did it because of the same reason as us. So if you see someone lie to someone, if you’re someone who would lie to someone because you don’t want to upset someone’s feelings, you’re like, oh, they lied to them because they don’t want to upset someone’s feelings.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: But if you’re someone who didn’t do something because you were jealous of something, when someone doesn’t do that same thing, you’re like, oh, that’s because they’re jealous of them. So we project our intentions onto other people’s actions.

ALEX COOPER: So interesting.

JAY SHETTY: And so I’m projecting now and so I’m being very honest and open about it. My wife and I have been together for 10 years, long before my public life. And we got married six years ago. And I started creating content online around the same time as we got married. We’d already been together for four years and I’d been creating offline content for 10 years before I started doing online content. So I did events and I spoke and did seminars and workshops and coaching, all this stuff.

Anyway, for the first three years of my content life, no one knew I was married. It wasn’t that I didn’t talk about it, it’s that I used to make four minute videos on Facebook and YouTube and those four minute videos were based on ideas. Long form content hadn’t really taken off and I didn’t really feel the need to post selfies with me and my wife because I was gaining traction from talking about philosophy and psychology and ideas that I cared about.

And we just got married too and it was all new to us. It was like all of a sudden, when I would post that I was at a restaurant, people would turn up and things like that. And so I was very protective of my mom, my sister, my wife, and just everyone in my life.

And then my first ever podcast episode was me interviewing my wife and us talking about how we met and our journey and everything else that came with that. And that was in 2019 when we talked about it. I am so grateful that I didn’t do it before then because it gave my wife time to acclimatize to the new life we’d created. It gave her a sense of stability in what we were doing and where we were going. And it helped me deal with what I needed to deal with in this journey.

It wasn’t something I would even say I was fully conscious of, I guess. My question to you is, do you think having a relationship that you’re open about, but that is private, consciously improves the quality of relationship you can build? I’m projecting that. I think it’s healthy, but you don’t have to buy into my projection.

The Power of Privacy in Relationships

ALEX COOPER: You know what? I’m going to buy in. Okay. I do. I definitely. It’s interesting because when I met my boyfriend, I had already podcasted about him before our first date, and I remember podcasting. I was in Los Angeles, and we were going to a dinner, and I’m podcasting about my wants and my needs and all the things that I’m expecting for this date to go.

I had never met this man in my classic Alex, just going for it for the podcast. Got to give the daddy gang what they want. And I show up to the date, and halfway through, I’m like, oh, you’re going to be on next week’s episode. And he’s a very private person. And he was like, what? And I was like, mm, it’s going to be so good. And then I’m going to go back and record whatever happens at the end of the day.

And he was so shocked. I will say I think he thought it was quite charming. I love how men are always like, oh, I don’t want to be on. They love being on. But with him, it was interesting because I went all the way in and I started talking about him from the beginning, and then I had to pull it back because I realized, oh, well, this is a real relationship.

And I have so much respect for him, and he’s in the entertainment industry, but he’s private. And in a great way, this is how I knew he was the one. He never said, “don’t talk about me,” but he asked that we just have conversations about it and just keep talking about it.

And I’ve had past relationships where it was like, “f* your show, I don’t care.” And he has such a respect for my craft that he recognizes that is kind of what you do for a living and your life is your living.

But I did start to pull back, and I know it’s not fun to hear, but my relationship couldn’t be better because of it. All of a sudden, he didn’t have to wake up in the morning and press play and listen to what I said. And we weren’t getting DMs about our relationship, and it really allowed us to just be present of, hey, do we like each other?

I’ve said to people, and I’m not judging people that post on social media with their partner, I always just like to check myself, and then I just tell people what I’m doing. And if you want to, you know, do it too. But it’s like, there’s some relationships I worry, are you just together still because the public loves you, and that is not healthy.

And I think that with social media, people can become addicted to the concept of this perfect relationship and what it looks like. What is it like behind closed doors? I am so fortunate that I don’t have that with my partner. I’m with him because I love him and I love our relationship, and none of it is contingent upon either of our jobs. So that’s been very healthy.

Was it hard? Yes, of course. There’s great content in there, and occasionally I will share. But I told my listeners, one rule that I implemented with my partner was if we have an argument or a fight or a disagreement or whatever, and it’s an open wound at the time for the relationship, I made the mistake once of going and talking about it on the podcast too soon, that we hadn’t even healed.

And my partner is so mature that he was like, “I love you so much, but I think we need boundaries because hearing that is not fun.” And it almost made it worse for me because we haven’t resolved it.

And so now I have a boundary where it’s like, a couple months later, I can totally talk about it because he was like, “some of our arguments are great for couples to think about and talk about. They’re very relatable. But I think in the moment, it’s always good to just put my relationship first.”

And it doesn’t mean I’m not putting the show first. It’s just having a good set boundary that I didn’t have before. And I’m really, really happy I’ve done it.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. I’ve loved hearing today about how many different boundaries you put into different areas of your life. You’re winning.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: Winning at boundary settings. No, but it’s so important because I think the problem is that we think of life as either or. And life is more boundaries and layers and levels. And it’s like, we think I’m either close to this person or I’m not. And I’m like, no, you’re closer to this person than this person. It’s not that you’re close or not. And I think when you start looking at life as degrees, and you know, you see a little ripple and different degrees versus yes or no?

Setting Boundaries on Social Media

ALEX COOPER: Absolutely. And I think the concept of, again, this is all for public consumption, posting your partner for people, in my case, that I don’t know. Right. And even a lot of people, even if you have a thousand followers on Instagram, do you have a thousand friends? Absolutely not, Becky. Okay. You do not have a thousand friends.

So I always am also just like, what is the motive behind posting your partner? Is it to get validation that you’re not getting in the relationship? Is it to seek approval? Is it to show off something that you’re proud of? But, well, if you were super confident, would you need that exterior validation? Right.

And again, I’m not saying not to post your partner. It’s really just, I think with social media, we’ve been so quick to just throw stuff up about our life, and it’s like, well, why are you doing that? Who was that for? Why do you feel the need to show people that you don’t even know how your relationship is going and write these long captions about it?

I totally get trying to connect with people, but there is a level that I started to find of, I think I’m just doing this because this is helping content. It’s not good for my relationship. I need to pull back.

The Power of Honesty and Support in Relationships

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And I love that “who it’s for” question. Because I do that exercise with myself when I post stuff. Like, I post certain things and I know no one cares, but I really care about it. Like, it’s a big deal for me or whatever. And then I’ll post and I’ll already tell Tim, I’ll be like, “Do not look at the likes. Do not look at the comments. I know it’s going to do terribly, but it’s really important to me and I want it to be out there.” Because to me, that’s really, really powerful.

And obviously we only put out things that we think are powerful. Of course. But there are certain things that I know no one cares about apart from me. And at the same time, I think for me, what I was getting at was that three years of being married for me and my wife gave us a sense of getting to know each other in that way without having to deal with any opinions.

Like, right now, all we ever get when we post anything is just, “You guys look like brother and sister.” Like, that’s not what I would have wanted to hear when we just got married. So I’m very happy that we didn’t because that’s all we ever get. And so I’m like, this is great.

ALEX COOPER: You’re never going to… It’s… There’s always going to be the negative. And so that’s what… Also I’m really protective of it because I’m like, I’m so happy. He’s so happy. Our families love each other. We’re doing good. We are by no means a perfect couple. But I have no interest right now in opening that up for public consumption to just have an opinion. I don’t need it. I want to know, am I in this because I like him? That’s it.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Great. Stick with it.

What Makes a Healthy Relationship

JAY SHETTY: Last question on relationships. I think a lot of people ask, like, you know, what do you look for in someone? I think for me it’s the opposite way around. Like, what do you think you want someone to bring out in you that you see as a healthy relationship? Like, what are you happy being when you’re in a good place?

ALEX COOPER: I’m a lot. I’m self aware enough to know I’m a lot. And really, when I say I’m a lot, I think my job is a lot. Right. And I am so passionate. Like I’ve said, I’ve been doing this since I was so young. I would be making these videos. No one was seeing them. I was acting like they were going to be up for an Academy Award. No one was. My parents were barely watching them.

JAY SHETTY: Do you still have them?

ALEX COOPER: Oh, they’re awful. Yeah, we need them.

JAY SHETTY: It’s shocking.

ALEX COOPER: They’re like, “We’re going to play it one day at your wedding.” I’m like, so I’m not getting married then.

But the point is, I have always felt like what I’m doing and my passion is so a part of me and I need a partner that is going to support me, especially in a heterosexual relationship. Can a man be okay with… I’m okay if I’m the breadwinner. It’s not the case in my relationship, we’re pretty equal, but it’s like, I need to be able to be myself and I need my partner to not be intimidated by my success, not try to hold me down. Let me be me and you be you. And if we come together and we make each other better, amazing.

But I’ve had relationships with men where they were extremely intimidated by my success. And it was constantly trying to push me down, language that was semi abusive of trying to make me feel less than, and it was really toxic and it affected me. And now being in a healthy relationship with someone that is like, “You are incredible. I support you.” Is like my number one cheerleader. That, to me, is the hottest thing that someone can do. And I’m so attracted to my partner because of that.

I also think someone that is so honest, my partner is so honest with me. Sometimes I’m like, oh, my God. It’s like, I’m not used to the honesty, and I really respect that because I am a no b* person. I’m like, what’s up? What’s going on? And to meet my match kind of with that, we do no dance arounds. Like, it is just like, what is up? And I know some people don’t like that. You need a little cushion. I am like, hit me where it hurts. Let’s get this over with.

So I think those two things, the honesty and also just allowing me to be who I am, and I know it sounds pretty straightforward, but a lot of people try to change each other. You’re laughing. What did I say? Jay’s like, I really… I relate.

JAY SHETTY: No, no. Yeah. I’m laughing because you literally… There’s something you said that just totally reminded me of something this weekend. So anyway, but carry on. I’ll tell you.

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Okay. The point is, you… I’ve learned in relationships, like, you talked about projection. There’s so much projection. If you don’t work on yourself and whatever your form of therapy for yourself is, if you don’t know who you are, you’re going to go into a relationship and quite literally look for the things you want out of that person, and you’re going to put unrealistic expectations onto this person.

And you don’t even know if you actually like them because you’re just trying to get what you want. It’s like, wait, you don’t even like the homie. Like, get out of here. And so I think stripping it down to, do you like them as who they are as a human being and not honestly also for how they make you feel all the time. Do you like them as an individual and do you two match up? Of course you want them to make you feel good.

But I think sometimes we project our wants and our needs and everything onto a person and it’s like, hold on. Work on your own and then come back and see if you like the person. Because a lot of times the person you’re with is just fulfilling something that’s an insecurity of yours. If you fill that insecurity, would you still need to be with that person?

JAY SHETTY: No. Absolutely.

ALEX COOPER: Therapy session 101. Okay.

The Importance of Honest Feedback

JAY SHETTY: No, I love it. I love it. You remind… So I was doing something important last week, and my wife is doing something…

ALEX COOPER: Important, as in being at a wedding. I was going to open this entire episode with, so how was the wedding I missed our interview?

JAY SHETTY: I will tell you that simply. I’ll tell you about it offline. I will tell you about it offline. But I was preparing for something last week, and my wife is that person to me, so I know that. And I have an amazing team who’s very honest with me, for sure. Like, I definitely… Like, we literally were…

ALEX COOPER: Look.

JAY SHETTY: We’re looking at headshots for my book coming out next year. And so the team was like, look. And we were all like, no, no, no. I’m doing it with my team. And it’s always the most painful thing of looking at your own face and all. Yeah. And anyway. But my wife takes it to another level, so she’s like, “All right, do your speech in front of me.” So I’m like, all right, I’m going to do it.

And I’d set myself up for it every time, because I know she’s going to give me really good feedback, but my male ego can’t take it. So I’ll do it, and then she’ll be like, “Oh, yeah, but this part didn’t make sense.” I’m like, “No, but this is why I did it that way.”

ALEX COOPER: She’s like, but I’m telling you as a viewer, and you’re not going to be able to explain to everyone why you said it.

JAY SHETTY: And I get super defensive. And then she’s like, “But say it like this.” And I’m like, “No, but the way you just said it didn’t sound good anyway.” And it’s like, I get so defensive. But she’s… And then I took all her feedback, and I did it exactly that way.

ALEX COOPER: That is… No, that is iconic. Also, my boyfriend did that. He had a speech he had to do at his brother’s wedding, and we were upstairs in the room, and he’s practicing, he’s pacing, he’s freaking out. And I’m like, “It’s coming off weird when you say it like that. It’s not hitting. You’re trying to be funny. You’re not funny.” Okay. He’s like, “Oh, okay.”

And I was trying to give constructive feedback, and he was freaking out, and he’s losing his mind. And I’m like, “Sit down. Let me rewrite it for you. I’m the comedian in the relationship. Let’s move forward.” And it was funny, though. Because he was really freaking out. But then at the end of the day, he’s like, “Okay, I trust you.”

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, exactly.

ALEX COOPER: You got to do a little push and pull. And then you’re like, okay, I trust you.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. And then there’s some stuff that I just hide from her in the practice because I know I want to do it anyway. And so then I don’t show her that bit, and it’s just was like, “Oh, that bit was really good.” I’m like, “See, if I showed it to you, you would have thought it was good.”

ALEX COOPER: But the constructive criticism was good. And then you added your little flair, and it all went well.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

The Many Sides of You

Alex, we end every On Purpose episode with two… Now two. You’re the first person to ever do this. So we have our Fast Five, but we also have our new segment, which very aptly is called The Many Sides of You. One word. We’re still figuring out the name. We’re getting there. We’re getting there. But we’re going to do this. So what this is is you’re going to give a word for every one of these things. Just one word.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, God.

JAY SHETTY: And it’s all about you.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, God.

JAY SHETTY: So are you ready?

ALEX COOPER: I don’t know if I like this. Okay.

JAY SHETTY: All right. What is a word or phrase to describe what someone would say about you when they meet you for the first time?

ALEX COOPER: I would say warm and trustworthy, which is really weird. Oh, I forgot you said warm in the beginning.

JAY SHETTY: That’s fine, though.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

JAY SHETTY: I obviously agree.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah. I’ve had a lot of people that just… I think again on social media, you think one thing of me, and then you meet me and you’re like, “Oh, wait, she’s…” I had a waitress I met this past week, and she DMed me after and was like, “I didn’t think you’d be that nice.” I’m like, guys, I’m not a scary person, but I do think I have a warmth that makes people feel really comfortable.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I believe I agree. Okay, what is the word someone that knows you very well would use to describe you or a phrase?

ALEX COOPER: Ooh, determined. Sometimes scary. I think my boyfriend and my parents are like, “Oh, God, here she goes.” Like, I’m like, “I’m going to finish this, and it’s going to be the best.” And they’re like, “Okay, just get out of her way. Here she goes.” Like, very determined.

JAY SHETTY: I love that. What is a word or phrase you would use to describe yourself?

ALEX COOPER: Loyal and passionate. Those two things resonate so much with me in two completely different ways. But a part of who I am truly is my craft. And I’m so passionate about it. Even if I made no money on it tomorrow, I would go back, I would still be making content. And I’m also passionate about anything I’m doing in my life. I have to be passionate about my family, my relationships, my friends.

And loyalty to me is number one. I respect anyone that’s loyal. And to me, it’s the number one thing on the list of something in a relationship that I look for. And I take pride in being loyal.

JAY SHETTY: I love that. That’s beautiful. I love those qualities.

ALEX COOPER: Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: Easier than asking you what your values are. I like it.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah.

JAY SHETTY: What is a word that’s… Maybe someone who doesn’t like you would say about you? How would they describe you?

ALEX COOPER: Cocky. Damn right. Damn right. You got to be. You got to be.

JAY SHETTY: And the last one. What is the word or phrase you’re trying to embody, something that you’re working on right now?

Being Intentional in Every Aspect of Life

ALEX COOPER: Intentional. I really am trying to, in every aspect of my life, always ask, what is the objective? Try to be more intentional about things. Because I think when you do things with care, everything is better.

People feel better about it, you feel better. And also, it just—there’s a different radiating effect when you’re intentional about things. So whether it’s in my relationships or my craft, I’m very trying to be intentional, especially this year.

JAY SHETTY: I love that. That’s a great word.

ALEX COOPER: This is a good game.

JAY SHETTY: That’s great. You did good. You did good. All right, these are the final five. But before we do that, I want to ask you, Alex, was there anything that you shared that you—oh, sorry. Anything you haven’t shared today that you really wanted to share or something you wanted to talk about?

And I mean, I’m asking this online offline just to honor you in terms of if there’s something that we’ve missed or do you want to dive more into talking more about the entrepreneurship side and the craft side and the business side?

Giving Call Her Daddy Another Chance

ALEX COOPER: I mean, I think in a really cool way, I didn’t know where this was going to go today. And I’m really happy. I hope that who I am behind the camera kind of came out today.

And I guess I would just say to anyone listening, and this is not a plug for my show. It’s more I really—I think this year I’ve tried to start, especially when I’m sitting down with people, to give people the benefit of the doubt and a chance to hear even if I have misconceptions about someone.

And so I just hope anyone listening, if you maybe had a judgment about Call Her Daddy back in the past or of me, I ask just to be open minded and kind of just give it another chance because one, I think everyone deserves that. And two, I really am proud of what I’m doing and I’m proud of the show and the direction it’s taken.

Not to say that I’m not proud of the past, but I think people would be surprised at where it’s gone and how much it’s grown. And I just would ask for a chance and give it a listen and yeah, that’s it.

JAY SHETTY: I love that. I love that. And you’re doing it. And honestly, I keep saying, you don’t need it from me, but whatever it’s worth, it’s like, I just love watching people grow and try new things and take risks and do something that’s fresh and new.

And then everything you said about impact and responsibility and even the interviews you have done—for me, it’s beautiful to watch that. And so, you know, congrats. Not on this external success, of course on that, but more on doing the hard thing. Right. That’s what’s more interesting to me.

And I think as a creator and as a host, it’s doing the hard thing. It’s to keep feeding whatever everything and everyone wants is easy, but to actually switch and say, “I’ve changed, I’ve grown, I’ve evolved, and this is where I’m going now,” that—and that’s where so many people at 50, 60, 70 years old feel so empty. Because for the last 25 years, they just did what other people wanted them to do.

ALEX COOPER: Totally. And it’s like, you got to go for it.

JAY SHETTY: I just don’t want to be in that position.

ALEX COOPER: No. Anyone listening? If you’ve wanted to do something, you got to go for it because we have literally no idea how much time we have here. And that’s what I’m doing with this, especially the season. I’m like, oh, I’m going for it. I believe in something. I’m going to go for it, and I will—I’ll handle whatever comes with that.

The Fast Five

JAY SHETTY: Yeah, I love that. All right, Alex, I’ve got five questions left for you.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

JAY SHETTY: These are the fast five.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

JAY SHETTY: What is—okay, Alex Cooper, these are your fast five. Question number one. What is the best advice you’ve ever received?

ALEX COOPER: Oh, this is so generic, but it’s so true. It’s from my mother. Be yourself. In a world of people trying to tell you what to be, what to do. Be yourself, know yourself.

And the journey of knowing yourself is going to be just as long. If you’re going to know yourself or you’re going to go with what people want you to be, be yourself. It’s so much more rewarding at the end of the day.

JAY SHETTY: I love it. All right, second question. What is the worst advice you’ve ever received?

ALEX COOPER: Be quiet. Where would that have gotten me, guys? I mean, a microphone myself. Here we go. Don’t be quiet. Speak your mind. Go for what you want, and bulldoze through doors.

JAY SHETTY: Question number three. What position did you play in soccer?

ALEX COOPER: Center, midfield.

JAY SHETTY: Okay. All right. That’s cool. I was center, attacking midfield.

ALEX COOPER: That’s great. Also, sometimes I would go on the flanks.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Basically my role. For anyone who doesn’t know soccer, my position would let Alex’s role do all the running. Yep. Thanks.

ALEX COOPER: Thanks a lot. Yep. I love to run.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. I recently invested in Angel City FC, and so I would love to take you there. It was so fun because I grew up obviously wanting to play soccer professionally, and I was never good enough. But my sister loves soccer, too, and she played, and I was just like, if I ever have a daughter or—I was like, I want her to have the opportunity. So it’s—that’s why such a good sport. Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, my God.

JAY SHETTY: And they’re so good, so they’re fun to watch. So we have to figure that out.

ALEX COOPER: Thank you.

JAY SHETTY: Question number four. How would you describe your current purpose?

Using Her Platform for Change

ALEX COOPER: My current purpose is to use my platform to hopefully empower and unite women, also underrepresented communities, and try to elicit change. There’s a lot we got to do right now and specifically with women’s rights.

And so I would say my purpose is trying to use my platform to excite people for change, not scare them. This is an exciting time. It is a great time to have a vagina. We have to look at it that way or we’re only going to regress and keep getting pushed backwards by men.

So it’s like, let’s use our vaginas. Let’s vote with our vaginas this year. Okay. I don’t think anyone’s probably said vagina as many times on your podcast. Definitely not. It’s to inspire and bring people with me on this journey of educating myself and taking my education public.

JAY SHETTY: Love that. And I’m with you. Whatever help I can give. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

ALEX COOPER: Abortions are legal.

JAY SHETTY: Well said. That’s a real law.

ALEX COOPER: Thank you. That’s a real law.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Now let’s put it back where it was.

JAY SHETTY: Yeah. Amazing. I love it. Alex Cooper, everyone.

ALEX COOPER: Thank you so much for having me.

JAY SHETTY: Oh, no, thank you. That was, without a doubt, I think, the most fun I’ve ever had. That was so much fun. That was unbelievable.

ALEX COOPER: I am honored to have been here. Thank you for giving me the time and the space and your platform. This is amazing.

JAY SHETTY: No, I am so grateful, honestly. That was smart, funny, intellectual, thoughtful, deep. I mean, it was—it was every emotion I want to feel on any given day. And yes, you are just an absolute—I don’t know what the right word is. You’re a maverick.

You know, it’s just, it’s amazing also to—I love witnessing high performing people in this way. And watching you, I’m like, this person’s such a pro. Just unbelievable. Just phenomenal. It’s so beautiful to watch. Yeah, it’s amazing. So thank you.

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