This Past Weekend: #659 w/ Comedian Ari Matti (Transcript)

I need to have—

ARI MATTI: And then, you know, have you seen these cranium videos now?

THEO VON: No.

ARI MATTI: It’s like a thing where a guy goes into your mouth and he releases childhood drama, and then people cry on a table. And I’m like, “Do I need to get my cranium released?”

THEO VON: What is it called? Can you bring this up?

ARI MATTI: Cranium release.

THEO VON: Craniofacial.

ARI MATTI: That’s like all my feed right now.

THEO VON: This is craniofacial, facial release and cranial— craniosacral.

ARI MATTI: I saw one video, it was a Black guy, they released his cranial, he became white. It’s crazy. Like everything in your life can be released with the cranial.

THEO VON: There’s a lot of trauma, dude, in the culture.

ARI MATTI: There’s a lot of trauma in the culture, bro.

THEO VON: That’s crazy. They release you when you’re f*ing a woman, like tits just pop out or something.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, you get a bigger cock, you grow taller. It’s funny when you find out stuff like this. I haven’t seen this, bring this up.

THEO VON: I just want to—

ARI MATTI: Huge.

THEO VON: And who’s doing it? Is it a Middle Easterner trying to do it to somebody?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, they put like a balloon up your nose and it comes out of your mouth. It’s all crazy.

THEO VON: And it’s part of the Harlem Globetrotters. Oh yeah, this is so fun, bro. First of all, go back 10 seconds. Just seeing a Middle Eastern guy with a skull. Yeah, it’s just too much.

ARI MATTI: I know, I know, I know, I know. And now this lady’s straight. She was a lesbian before and now she’s straight. Everything in your life can be fixed by cranial.

THEO VON: Yeah. Oh God. Yeah, it’s always like this. It’s kind of like a tightly— it’s like a Persian in like fitted figs or whatever, and they’re just explaining to you like how it will save you. And what do they do? They put it in. Is there another video?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, I see this guy, he puts a f*ing thumb in his mouth and he sucks on it.

THEO VON: Oh, well then he— that’s trauma. Then he needs the cranial.

ARI MATTI: Oh, look at this guy.

THEO VON: Oh, I’ve seen this. I know, I know.

ARI MATTI: This is the thing.

THEO VON: “Cranial for my craniosacral and nervous system reset.” You can reset it. This guy’s just blowing.

ARI MATTI: No, I think he’s pushing like on the— okay, I went too deep. Are you— you feel better?

THEO VON: Oh, I feel like calling somebody a faggot, but I think— but not me though.

ARI MATTI: Not me.

THEO VON: Yeah, but yeah, so I don’t think this is good for me.

ARI MATTI: There’s always like new trends where you find out that this is what’s wrong with your life, that you haven’t had— your cranial is all f*ed up.

THEO VON: Yeah. Okay, here we got a guy, they got a honky laid out here.

ARI MATTI: “Start left lower. So 3 different openings on each side of the nose. So we’re going to do left lower. This will be a little cold, it’s going to be a little weird.”

“I feel a little weird.”

No shit, it’s a little weird. He blows it up, it literally swells up your brain.

THEO VON: This is crazy.

ARI MATTI: I don’t like any doctor that just has 3 diplomas and a word of mouth, you know?

THEO VON: Yeah, dude. Yeah, a word of snout. This guy is f*ing— and you can’t see at home, they’ve just put a balloon into this guy’s head and then they blew it up with air.

ARI MATTI: He just blew up. Did you hear that?

THEO VON: And now he’s smiling.

ARI MATTI: In reality, now he’s straight.

Praying the Gay Away

THEO VON: And there you go, dude. Well, they had that praying the gay out of children, remember? That was a big thing.

ARI MATTI: Not for us, but big in America.

THEO VON: In America.

ARI MATTI: Pray the gay away, pray the gay away.

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: And it’s always the gayest guy telling you to pray. And it’s funny that they send you to a camp filled with 40 dudes deep in the woods with no contact to the outside world. Seems like a great place. They even tell you, “Even God shut his eyes for this one. Don’t worry, the next 2 weeks we are free in the river, brothers.”

THEO VON: Free at last, brothers! Well, gays, you know, I grew up around it. Have you ever seen a rest area in America?

ARI MATTI: Like a pit, like a rest stop? That’s where you suck, suck, suck, suck.

THEO VON: It was a big thing. And they shut it down for a while. They started putting like glyphosate in the backyard there and stuff like that. They tried to shut it down.

ARI MATTI: But you don’t stop gay people from f*ing, dude.

THEO VON: It’ll kill weeds, but it’s not, you know what I’m saying? It’s not stopping some of these sexual trends. But they had a lot of gays in our area. They would meet up behind there for sure, and they would— they had a river back there and they’d get out, they’d do drugs and get out in the river and hug and everything.

ARI MATTI: Gay people love to f* in a bush. Like, it’s—

THEO VON: Why?

Stanley Park, Vancouver

ARI MATTI: I don’t know. It’s like at a hotel, it’s okay now. But when I went to— I used to live in Vancouver. When I moved there, literally first night when I moved there, I went for a walk in Stanley Park. It’s the local park next to the city.

THEO VON: Oh, I’ve been there. It’s beautiful. Oh, goes right along the water.

ARI MATTI: Like, you become a werewolf there. It’s like so nice and quiet. First time I was there, I got a little high. I was deep in the woods thinking of my own things, and it’s like so quiet and serene. And then I’m like, I take my shirt off. It’s like sunny. I got some sun on my— I got a little tan going, do a little push-ups, do a little shadow boxing. I’m alone in the woods.

THEO VON: Okay, of course, it was natural.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, it was natural. You do a little push-ups.

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like a deleted scene from the Bible, I feel like. But let’s hear more. I want to hear more about it.

ARI MATTI: Deleted scene from the Bible.

THEO VON: They should— bro, if you and me made deleted scenes from the Bible—

ARI MATTI: Now that’s funny. Deleted scenes from the Bible is a funny concept.

THEO VON: Anyway, I interrupted you. Go on.

Stanley Park Encounter

ARI MATTI: I’m doing a little push-ups, I’m getting a little glisten going. Then I see a guy, like, walking past. And when guys trying to f*, it’s a look they have. It’s just the way they move. It’s like he’s walking one way, but he’s looking at me like this. He’s got his sunglasses on, but he’s peeking over the sunglasses.

THEO VON: Right? Right. So everything he’s doing, he’s doing something separate. Like, he’s walking one way but looking another way. He’s got sunglasses on, but he’s got them down and looking over.

ARI MATTI: So he’s establishing contact. First contact.

THEO VON: Yes, sir. Yes, he is.

ARI MATTI: He keeps walking. I keep boxing.

THEO VON: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now you’re boxing harder.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. I’m trying to be like, look at this shit. Like, you don’t want none of this. Yeah. And then 5 minutes go by. He comes out of another bush. Like, I hear like a crack and I’m like, now he’s closer. Oh. So now I take my music out because I need all my senses. This is, this might be an ambush. There might be several of them. This is like a room of mirrors. Like, which is the real guy trying to f* me, dude? Oh, that’s crazy. Yeah.

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: So I need all my senses.

THEO VON: That’d be a cool game show.

ARI MATTI: So I’m trying to get sober. I throw some water on my face. I need to be sharp. I put my backpack on. I’m about to— I have to f* my way out of this.

THEO VON: You fix your hip really quick. Yeah.

ARI MATTI: Oh, yeah. I start warming up. So then he comes, “hey, man.” And I try to give him a “hey, man,” but not a “hey, man,” not a friendly one. I give him a “hey, man.” Like a little—

THEO VON: Right. Like, what are we doing here?

ARI MATTI: Yeah. “Hey man.”

THEO VON: “Hey man.”

ARI MATTI: He goes, “you want a beer?” I go, “nah, I don’t want a beer.” Yeah. Then I realized, oh, oh, he’s out here. And then he disappears. I change location. Different guy. Like another one. Backpack. He’s looking like he’s been in the woods for days looking for dick.

THEO VON: Wow.

ARI MATTI: And he walked—

THEO VON: And this new guy, he was like, “where’s dick though?” Yeah, like kind of like Where’s Waldo, but a little different. Like, where’s Dick now?

ARI MATTI: And he walks past, same look, just a full eye contact. And now I see there’s a cock hanging from— he’s got it out. He’s got it out. Oh, maybe he heard. Yeah, maybe like down at the base, like that was the messenger. Yeah, yeah, “we got one.”

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah.

ARI MATTI: And it’s kind of on me. I mean, I’m a little like a gay superhero. I know, it’s kind of on me, by the way.

THEO VON: Yeah, you’re like a piece of bait in the woods. You’ve set your shadowboxing, which shadowboxing is— but here’s what it gives. I think it gives this idea, “oh, I wish somebody else were here with me.”

ARI MATTI: Exactly. Oh, the shadow. I need someone to be the shadow, right?

THEO VON: So then the guy just paints himself black and it starts— that’s like laying connected to your feet.

ARI MATTI: Then I see his cock. Now I’m kind of— and both, by the way, you know what I was offended? Both those guys looked like absolute ass. Like 50 years old. I’m a beautiful angel. I’m like 26 years old at my prime. Yes, I’m doing shadowboxing. Yeah, even if I f* you, the others would never believe you. Like, dude, I would be like a myth that they talk about in the gay circle for years. “There’s this blue-eyed—” yeah, yeah, “if you stay in Stanley Park long enough, an angel will appear.”

THEO VON: So, god dang, bro.

The Encounter Escalates

ARI MATTI: And I’m like, and it’s funny, it’s my first time being like kind of like sexually assaulted, I would say. And it’s funny, it kind of put things into perspective for me as well, how like it’s not—

THEO VON: Tell it.

ARI MATTI: It’s not that I can’t beat the f* out of you. I’m not in danger. I don’t feel threatened like a woman with a bigger man would in that situation.

THEO VON: Right.

ARI MATTI: But the fact you’re like showing me your cock makes me feel like a bitch.

THEO VON: You know, it’s like, let me think about it for a second. Like, if I’ve ever seen somebody’s cock, like, how did I feel about it?

ARI MATTI: And he was like shaking it. He was like giving a little shake and like looking straight into my eyes. Just give me a little shake.

THEO VON: Oh, I didn’t know all that. That’s a lot. That’s like almost—

ARI MATTI: “Come on, boy.” Okay.

THEO VON: Wow. You know, that’s like a dog treat or something. I know. So that I could understand. You feel like, oh, like you’re being summoned or something, maybe?

ARI MATTI: And the cock, the cock he had, it looked like it’s been through a hole. Like, I don’t know, his last partner was a train or like heavy.

THEO VON: His last partner was a long winter. That’s pretty wild, brother.

ARI MATTI: So he keeps— and I literally don’t know what to say. I act like it’s none of my biz.

THEO VON: What do you mean? How do you act like someone’s cock isn’t any of your biz? I know how you do, because that’s what we do all the time.

ARI MATTI: It’s just us in the woods. I don’t even— I’m never— So I keep walking like fast and I look over. Now I’m getting like nervous. They’re circling me.

THEO VON: Who are they? I don’t know. Are you sure?

ARI MATTI: I’m alone. There’s no reception in Stanley Park. The woods are high. The sun doesn’t even— the trees are so high, the sun doesn’t even reach. We’re down in the— if I even— if I yell help, it’s over.

THEO VON: And now is this Palantír doing this? Like, who do you think is doing this?

ARI MATTI: This is an organization. And I’m high. I try to find my way out and I— oh my God, I stumble on this tree stump. You know, like a tree stump.

THEO VON: Oh yeah, for sure. I’ve seen them.

ARI MATTI: 80 to 160 amount of condoms, like on the floor. Just this mass of used up condoms.

THEO VON: Like the Wailing Wall or whatever.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, exactly. Maybe this is the stump, you know, Jews kissed the rock or whatever.

THEO VON: But it’s more like gay Jews. This is their stump, you know, where they hump the stump kind of or something.

Finding the Way Out

ARI MATTI: And I’m trying to find a trail the way out. Just before I get to the trail after the stump, my heart is racing. I’m now like, what the f* is happening? Like, how did I find this deep in the woods? And then I see in the bush the two guys, the one guy with the glasses, the beer guy, and then the other guy with the cock, the wiener guy. I see them in the distance doing what, blow jobbing? I wish this was our job. This wasn’t the job. This was holding hair. Oh, oh God, oh God.

THEO VON: Like dick slavery or whatever.

ARI MATTI: Dicks. This was slavery.

THEO VON: God, brother.

ARI MATTI: And the guy banging the other guy’s mouth, he like makes eye contact.

THEO VON: The chef, they call that guy.

ARI MATTI: Yes, the chef.

THEO VON: Okay.

ARI MATTI: And he’s cooking up a meal.

THEO VON: Okay, it’s just— okay, keep going. Sorry, some of the sounds are making some— I don’t want the neighbors knocking, dude, because, you know, it’s like— no, but go on.

ARI MATTI: And he makes eye contact with me.

THEO VON: Why do they keep doing that?

ARI MATTI: I know, it’s crazy. He’s like, “you want some?” Ah. So I turn around, I find a road, and then I see like another guy on the trail, and I’m already giving him a weird like “stay away from him.” Then I realized, and then I saw his family. It’s just a German guy looking for— and I wanted to tell him like, “oh, Entschuldigung, nein, don’t go there.” Yeah, yeah. And then I get out of the woods, and then I— then of course immediately I go on Reddit, then Facebook groups. That’s the suck and f* stump. Ah, I was literally like, have you seen The Grey with Liam Neeson? Have you seen The Grey?

THEO VON: The Grey?

ARI MATTI: Well, remember where he fights the wolves?

THEO VON: I haven’t seen it. I’ve seen the advertisement for it, but I didn’t fall for it yet.

ARI MATTI: But it’s like a movie where he fights wolves because they keep attacking him, and then at the end of the movie you find out the whole time he’s been trying to escape the wolves. See, this is me. Look, with the gay guy. Look, look, look, look, this is me with the gay man.

THEO VON: God.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, he’s trying to escape the wolves, but then at the end of the movie he goes to the nest of the wolves, which they’re most protective. That’s how I felt. Like, I—

THEO VON: Like you were in the swarm. It’s almost like you had somehow found your way through the honeycomb to the queen bee.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. And then for a year, if I did stand-up, I always talked about that experience. And I said, “first time I came to Vancouver, I went to Stanley Park,” and everyone already laughs because they know it’s a suck and f* bush.

Stanley Park’s Reputation

THEO VON: And it’s called Stanley Park? Well, it’s crazy because they have one in Pittsburgh called Schenley Park, and they f* there too. And there was— there used to be rumors of like different quarterbacks for the Steelers going up there and doing male-on-male sexual. And then they had— but bring up— yeah, can we get a Reddit or like a Google review? Let’s go to Google review of Stanley Park and just get her— go down that for you privately and see if you get any— if people are reporting, you know, kind of gay activities over there.

ARI MATTI: Reporting gay activities?

THEO VON: Well, it used to be like, to go— and I’m sorry you went through that. And when I was a kid, across that river, so where the rest area was, across from that they had a lot of men, like kind of straight men or people that worked in like constru— like semi-straight people that worked like mechanics, you know, mechanics assistant or construction or something. They would— they have one of those like those slingshot things, the big ones, and they would shoot potatoes across because I grew up on the other side of the river across from the rest area. Okay, so we’d get out there when we’re kids with binoculars and watch like the guys do dope and then hug in the water.

ARI MATTI: And hug in the water.

THEO VON: Yeah, I mean, it really was like a deleted scene from the Bible, dude. That’s another one we have now. So it was like— but some of the adult men would fire a potato if they got too close. They’d fire a tot over at them. To get them to separate, you know. So it’s like this crazy shit that went on. But I think it is interesting when you get around the woods and when you get back to nature, like how sexuality is really close right there.

ARI MATTI: For sure. Yeah. And it’s also like there’s for sure the thrill of like— I have a gay friend of mine, he’s like older, and he says they— he says, “oh yeah, there’s all kinds of underground suck and f clubs and they f in the bush.”

THEO VON: Oh my.

ARI MATTI: It’s because, you know, men want to be a little perverted, but we have to— when we bang women, we have to— we have to— they’re angels, you know? So we have to like—

THEO VON: That’s a good point.

ARI MATTI: But if there’s two guys, we want to make it—

THEO VON: Oh yeah, it’s like, I want to throw you halfway through a window.

ARI MATTI: I want to f* your mouth in a bush, you know? That’s what I want to do. And guess what? He wants to do that too.

THEO VON: Oh my God.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

Stanley Park and Gay History

THEO VON: Here’s a note. Somebody right here said, “I masturbate in Stanley Park and I’m sorry anyone who stumbled into me doing that, but I don’t do it in front of people. I am not a sex offender.” So this is somebody just clearing the air.

ARI MATTI: Do you see how rough that note looked? Oh shit, dude.

THEO VON: Yeah, it says historically Stanley Park has served as a gay cruising location with secluded trails near the Lost Lagoon and forest areas. You could have been in the Lost Lagoon, my brother.

ARI MATTI: I know I was very lost, but I could see this also.

THEO VON: You were in the park for a couple days and it could change your sexuality. Do you feel like something like that could happen? Like, nature’s just such a ground where something different can happen. The woods is always like a mysterious place.

ARI MATTI: Mysterious place.

THEO VON: Like, even when you were a kid and you would go there, it was just like, you know what I’m saying? That’s where anything— there were monsters. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ARI MATTI: There was like— I smoked my first cigarette in the bush. It all happened from there. A piece of alcohol in the bush. It’s always like there’s a treehouse, first kisses.

THEO VON: There’s people living there.

ARI MATTI: Some guys just living there and you’re like, this guy, yeah, living in the woods.

THEO VON: Yeah. There’s just a lot that happens there. And I think there always has been. It’s a very mysterious place. And I think gay people used to not be able to just be gay. Now.

ARI MATTI: Exactly. So that’s like, I guess it’s like a throwback to them of like when times were not simpler, but different, more exhilarating, I guess.

THEO VON: Oh, for sure, dude. I think being gay now would seem very—

ARI MATTI: I mean, it’s boring now.

THEO VON: I agree.

ARI MATTI: My neighbor says he’s gay, I’m like, yeah, I’m straight, I’m tall. Yeah, who gives a f*?

THEO VON: Yeah, you’re gay. Yeah, we’re— yeah, we’re an 11, you know.

The Gay Confidant

ARI MATTI: I was like— oh my God, like that friend I was talking about who I ask all these gay questions. I have like one gay confidant.

THEO VON: Okay.

ARI MATTI: I ask him all kinds of gay stuff.

THEO VON: Us?

ARI MATTI: No, he’s Estonian, and he doesn’t get offended. I can ask him whatever I want.

THEO VON: Okay. And you’re from Estonia. I want to ask you about that. I want to get into that. But before you go on, so he’s like in his 50s, you know? Okay, so he’s an adult. He’s a fully active—

ARI MATTI: So he grew up like— if you grew up gay in San Francisco, how hard is it to come out of the closet in San— their parents are probably— you probably get a benefit.

THEO VON: You probably get a—

ARI MATTI: Yeah, you get a cool bag, support group. You have all these friends. Your parents are happy.

THEO VON: Yeah. You get like a special Meta login or something.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. You start stand-up, you get a Netflix deal within a year, you get a podcast.

THEO VON: That is true, dude.

ARI MATTI: I know.

THEO VON: You get a podcast given to you and suddenly you’re on the charts no matter what.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, it’s like, who was the famous transition, the athlete who went— now it’s a she.

THEO VON: Prefontaine or whatever?

ARI MATTI: No, no, no, it’s the famous family.

THEO VON: Caitlyn Jenner.

ARI MATTI: Caitlyn Jenner.

THEO VON: Yes, Caitlyn Jenner.

ARI MATTI: So for her, multimillionaire coming out of the closet, immediately on Forbes or Time’s Image Woman of the Year. For her, transitioning— I mean, transitioning for a millionaire in Hollywood, how hard can it be, right?

Now imagine being gay during like the Soviet Union. You have to suck cock in the shadows like a secret agent.

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude.

ARI MATTI: Now that’s exhilarating.

THEO VON: Double O slurping, dude. That’s got to be crazy.

ARI MATTI: Like, gay in San Francisco is one thing. That’s a homosexual in the ’80s Soviet Union, 1980s. Now that’s— he sucked dick risking his life. Now he loves cock.

THEO VON: I don’t know if he loves it, but he loves— he either loves cock or he likes mysteries that end in cock, you know what I’m saying?

ARI MATTI: I guess so, dude.

Being Gay in the Soviet Union

THEO VON: Imagine that, bro. Like, imagine, first of all, you find out you’re gay, because I don’t even know how people find out. Like, I don’t know if you get like a thing in the mail or whatever, because it’s like some people I think would never even know. Like, if you’re maybe uneducated, you think you just like watching your buddy’s ass, you know, trying to peek it. I mean, I don’t even know what some people think, but yes, dude, a long time ago. And you’re like, oh my God. And you cannot let anybody know.

ARI MATTI: Nobody. And then imagine.

THEO VON: Imagine what?

ARI MATTI: You’ve been like in the closet. Closet. This is in the closet. This is a bank vault.

THEO VON: Yes. You’re being very deep in the closet. You’re in the hamper.

ARI MATTI: And he told me, I was like, “So when did you?” And he’s like, “Man, I always knew it. But I hid it so deep in me, you know.” And he was like drug addict, drinking. He was even like— he told me when he was younger he was kind of violent against women because, you know, you hate yourself, and when you hate yourself, you hate the world around you, you know.

THEO VON: He probably didn’t even know it either.

ARI MATTI: No, he said he knew, but he never explored it. And then he said he was like, when? Maybe like 25 or something. I think it was something like that. He goes to a party in Finland. Finland is a ferry ride right across from Estonia, and it’s not the Soviet Union, so it’s a bit more, you know, and also nobody knows you there.

THEO VON: Oh, it’s a bit more kind of like, nouveau riche or risqué.

ARI MATTI: And he was in a nightclub, and he took a ferry there.

THEO VON: So even a ferry ride, that will stimulate the ocean. Yeah, the ocean within.

ARI MATTI: And you’re abroad. Nobody knows me here. And he said he was in like a bar and he said a guy looked at him in a way that no one has ever looked at him. And he knows that look. And they just suck and f* for like 3 days in a hotel room.

THEO VON: Oh my God. I thought the story was going to be a lot. I thought it was going to be a bigger moment between that part.

ARI MATTI: They just went to the hotel and that was his first experience.

THEO VON: No.

ARI MATTI: And he talks to this guy and this guy’s, “Yeah, it’s fine. Like, you’re a person, it’s fine.”

THEO VON: Yeah, you’re Finnish.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, you’re Finnish. Yeah, Finnish on me.

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ARI MATTI: And then he went back to Estonia, had to hide it for a little while. So it’s like those gay guys— when I look at like a 50-plus-year-old gay man, to be gay in the ’80s, you had to fight for your right to suck dick. That’s a gay man.

THEO VON: Heroes.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, that’s a hero. That’s—

THEO VON: Yeah, you know, that’s the Navy.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, that’s literally— yeah, yeah, you’ve grown up in the Marines.

THEO VON: Yeah. And sorry, the Marines might take offense. I think the Navy will be okay if we say that. And no offense if anybody is being gay or not, or in the Marines or whatever. But yeah, dude, I talk about that actually. I just taped my special the other day, and I have a bit about that. I mean, everybody has a bit about a lot of these things.

The Estonian Trans Bass Player

ARI MATTI: But yeah, dude, and with Caitlyn too, you know, it’s like she’s like an icon in America. We had a trans bass player in a band. It was all chicks in a band, famous Estonian band, and one guy, the bass player, was a guy, but he always wore like skirts and shit. Okay. And then eventually he transitioned.

THEO VON: So like women’s paraphernalia or whatever? Skirts, visors?

ARI MATTI: And then he transitioned like early 2000s. And in Estonia at that time, we were all like, we don’t even know what to— to go do an Estonian doctor.

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: Who usually does— gives you a little like paracetamol when you have a headache.

THEO VON: Yeah, like these are— yeah, people can’t even do this in Estonia. Exactly.

ARI MATTI: So to get a sex change and to tell a doctor, “Yeah, shove half of it off, the other half you just like cut half of it out, shove the other half in, build me a pussy, build me a Soviet pussy.”

THEO VON: Oh yeah, yeah.

ARI MATTI: And they were like— I remember he was even in the news. She, she was even in the— I mean, at that time, I mean, a Soviet pussy, dude.

THEO VON: That’s, bro, that’s the name of the musical we’re going to write. Okay, that’s the name of the musical.

ARI MATTI: And there was like a news article that she was in the grocery store in Estonia.

THEO VON: And so this, it originally was a man and then he transitioned.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: Okay, then she was in the store and she was in—

ARI MATTI: There’s a news article. She was in the grocery store and some guys are drunk and they’re yelling f and shit, you know. And you know what she did? Took the heels off and went fing factory settings and just started beating them. She went— that’s— now that’s someone who stands up for gay rights. Yeah, you know. Yeah, if you’re a millionaire, you go to a private clinic, you know.

THEO VON: That’s easy.

ARI MATTI: That’s an easy turn. You’re a hero. Yeah.

THEO VON: And those rich people, they’ll even get like a pretty pussy. Yeah. Or a weekend cock, you know, just give me something I can put on for the weekend.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: You know, they’ll get something with earrings on it. It’s like, this is unreal. I’m talking about the frickin’ day-to-day blue-collar Glasgow pussy. The Glasgow, Scotland pussy.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, exactly.

THEO VON: Good day, sir.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

THEO VON: The vagina that even like, if you look at it, if you look at it 2 times, at least one of those times it still kind of looks like a cock.

ARI MATTI: For sure. Yeah, yeah, you just—

THEO VON: Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. Like, it’s just doing its best.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

Estonia, Subway, and Childhood Memories

THEO VON: Dude, you’re from Estonia. So let’s bring up Estonia because it — to a lot of people, or I’m not going to say that, I’ve always — it sounded like a fictional place. Like, I remember when I was a kid, I heard the word Kalamazoo, right? And it sounds like a place Dr. Seuss would have made up or something.

ARI MATTI: Is it a place?

THEO VON: It’s a place in Michigan, but I didn’t know that. Kalamazoo, right? It sounds like —

ARI MATTI: Yeah, that sounds like a candy. Yes, it sounds like a candy that pops in your mouth.

THEO VON: Yes, the Kalamazoo. And I — but then I was in an airport one time, I was probably 16 years old, I’m in the airport and I saw Kalamazoo and I was like, no way, it’s a real place. Never had an idea. So Estonia seems like a place that almost seems like something out of Game of Thrones or something.

ARI MATTI: Yes, do we get that?

THEO VON: But it gets confusing because I can’t — if somebody said describe Estonia, I’d have no idea what it is. How to spend a weekend in Tallinn. Is that the capital?

ARI MATTI: Yeah. Wow. It’s like Kalamazoo is like my Subway. You know the sandwich shop Subway?

THEO VON: Yes.

ARI MATTI: We had one Subway in Estonia when I was like 16. I went there every day and I thought, so cool of a family restaurant, name it Subway because the sandwich looks like a Subway. I did my birthday there and then I went for like a trip to Sweden and I saw another Subway. Broke my f*ing heart. I thought this was like a family restaurant. Yeah. Yeah.

THEO VON: Oh dude, that’s beautiful. I mean, just picturing somebody doing their birthday there.

ARI MATTI: In a Subway. Yeah.

THEO VON: It’s beautiful, dude. And I’ll say this too. I dated a girl that worked at a Subway and I remember I’d go in there and she’d hug me with — she’d have those hand covers on and she would hug me when she had them on.

ARI MATTI: Did she smell after her shift? She smelled like Subway, I bet.

THEO VON: Oh, beautiful. The Asiago, when they came out with that Asiago bread, people didn’t know what to do.

ARI MATTI: I used to bang a girl from McDonald’s. She smelled —

THEO VON: Okay, that’s different.

ARI MATTI: She had been quit — she hadn’t been working there for 6 months.

THEO VON: What, the sex was so good she quit McDonald’s? You’re telling me? That’s insane, bro. Are you kidding? What?

ARI MATTI: And I would go to her place 6 months later, her apartment still smells like the fries. Damn.

Semester at Sea and Stranger’s Homes

THEO VON: Yeah, there’s some — bro, that was such a mystery, dude. Like, at certain ages when you’re still going over to strangers’ homes for sex. Yeah, that’s a crazy experience, especially if they live with a lot of other people or you don’t know who they live with or there’s an animal there. You have to like first defend yourself against the animal. You have to like placate the animal. You have to get down close to it, lie in its ears, tell it lies. You know what I’m saying? It’s like you have to get past the wizard.

ARI MATTI: You always know if it’s a whore if the dog is too friendly. Yeah, the dog is like giving you water like you’re doing a podcast. Just you wait here. They’ll let you know when she’s ready. Yeah, that’s how you know.

THEO VON: It’s like, take a number out of one of those little machines.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, if the dog attacks you, that’s a good sign, bro.

THEO VON: You’re right, dude. That’s great, dude.

ARI MATTI: One time I went into a — if he brings you the condom in his mouth, it’s like, oh f*.

THEO VON: Yeah, and if he can take it off for you, that’s insane, dude. And bro, dude, one time I went on this thing called Semester at Sea. So it’s like a floating school that’s on a campus. It’s a floating college.

ARI MATTI: Floating college.

THEO VON: Yeah, bring it up. What? Semester at Sea. My friend got me on this. It was for like fancy people, right?

ARI MATTI: And oh my God, this is such a — if my daughter ever said I’m going to a Semester at Sea, oh my God. I mean, this is a suck and f* boat.

THEO VON: I mean, I think my sweet baby angel is stuck at sea.

ARI MATTI: No, look, even a helicopter can’t access you. Holy f*, this is worse than Taken.

THEO VON: Now, brother, there’s a lot of education.

ARI MATTI: I’m trying to send my daughter to France. Oh yeah, this is worse than Taken.

THEO VON: Well, in France they’ll f* her but softly, you know. It’s like very — they can’t even really get the job done. But no, we went on this and I got a job. I worked in the bookstore, and my college — like, all my college stuff applied to it. So in the end, it wasn’t very expensive. And like, I got like, you know, different like little loans you can get. They had these like Fannie Mae loans or something. Anyway, so I was able to go on this thing, but we went to — what was something we were just talking about? You remember it?

ARI MATTI: We were talking about going to a stranger’s place to suck and f*. You’re on a boat, you’re working, you met a girl maybe.

THEO VON: Yeah, I was on — I met a guy. No, I never met a man. I’m never meeting a man.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, I’m so straight, I’m never meeting a man.

THEO VON: Well, I would meet a man for like dinner or something if it’s a friend, or like, but I’m not —

ARI MATTI: When the sun goes down, you gotta go.

THEO VON: Well, I’m just like, I think being gay probably 1,000 years ago, or even 100 years ago probably seemed way more exciting. Like, even if you were just a brave-ass dude that loved, like, Carmen Sandiego or Encyclopedia Brown or any of those type of mystery books, you might be like, oh, I’ll be gay just because it’s f*ing — you want to play hide-and-go-seek against the best.

Childhood Explorations

ARI MATTI: You ever did some, like, gay shit when you were young, but you didn’t know it’s gay? It’s just like boys exploring themselves or something. Did you do anything like that?

THEO VON: I wouldn’t say I did anything like that.

ARI MATTI: I did something where me and my cousin, we would go to an abandoned, you know, like a construction site when it’s abandoned. It has that — what’s the place where they, like the container where the construction guys, they do coffee, they take a nap? Oh yes, container.

THEO VON: Yes, it’s like a little, like a — it’s like a little trailer.

ARI MATTI: A trailer, yeah, yeah. Like, and it was like an abandoned trailer, and me and my cousin would go there and we would like give each other massages, and the price was like candy, a piece of candy. Like one minute was one piece of candy, and we would give each other these back massages. And it was like — and then one time I remember we put our dicks into like a bottle. We like shared a bottle.

THEO VON: How big of a bottle are we saying?

ARI MATTI: Now I wish I could say Nestea, like a big one. It was a little — it was, you know.

THEO VON: Oh, wow.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. So we were like exploring.

THEO VON: How did you put them both into the top of the bottle?

ARI MATTI: No, not the same thing. It’s like we —

THEO VON: Oh, separate bottles?

ARI MATTI: No, same bottle, but we shared it.

THEO VON: Oh, one person, then the other?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THEO VON: Oh, interesting.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, very interesting. And then one time we were giving each other these back massages. I had my shirt off, I was on the floor, and my friend was giving me this back massage. Then we’re going to f* the bottle. It’s like a regular Tuesday.

THEO VON: First of all, this is also the Estonia Olympics.

ARI MATTI: And then a security guy or a construction worker, somebody walked in. You know what he did? He just ran out. Because I get it from his perspective. He can’t go to his boss and be like, I saw these two boys. It was me and two boys in a trailer.

THEO VON: He’s getting fired.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. He just ran off.

THEO VON: Well, now that you shared, then I’ll say something. Yeah, there was like a thing where like — I mean, I remember a couple things, I guess, because I never had a father.

ARI MATTI: So I guess like, right, nobody ever taught me about sex or anything. So my stepdad tried to talk to me about sex. He was literally showing me videos on like a laptop. It was like an erotic movie where you don’t see penetration but you see it from the shadow. I was 17 years old. You think that’s cool? Let me — I showed him.

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: Have you seen Mr. Horse? My stepdad was like, yo, this is out there. I was like, yeah, dude. So yeah, my sex talk was so late. So it was just me in the f*ing trailer at 9 years old trying to figure out, oh, what are all these emotions?

THEO VON: Oh, dude, I remember one time. Yeah. Like, my buddy and I, he was over at my birthday party or whatever, and he was like, you had your birthday party and then like 2 friends got to stay overnight, right? So there was the — everybody came to the party. And you had to pretend like everybody was leaving, but then two friends got to stay overnight for your birthday.

And one friend was like a little bit older, and he was kind of thick, this little kind of thick kid. And he was like, “All right, let’s all take our shirts off, and then let’s like —” and then he told — he said like you could read each other’s ribs. Like, you know, your ribs, like they had like — it was almost like hieroglyphics. Like you rub your hand along the other person’s ribs, you could get like a message out of it. Does it make almost like, you know, those bumps that they do for people that are — you know?

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: Braille.

ARI MATTI: Braille.

THEO VON: Braille. So he said your body holds braille in it, and if you put your hands like along somebody’s ribs, you can — you’ll get a message, right?

ARI MATTI: And so we’re real hard braille for you right now. You can read this when you’re blind, deaf, and mute. Dude, I got a good braille for you down here, dude.

Childhood Curiosity and Babysitting Misadventures

THEO VON: Dude, so we had this, bro. So we had us like, there was like 3 of us under this like blanket or something, and we’re all just sitting there. We didn’t have our shirts on and we’re just like all trying to— yeah, trying to read each other’s ribs, dude, you know? And then like whoever seemed like the kind of gayest kid would like get a message or something, or it was just like— but this one kid was kind of facilitating it and he’d probably seen something erotic or he’d had like— exactly, different thoughts or something, because you’re—

ARI MATTI: Because your synapses firing of pleasure and reproductive and testosterone, but you— it’s a lot of information but you can’t translate it, right? Like, I remember when I was like 7 years old or something, it was a Christmas party.

THEO VON: Oh, do tell.

ARI MATTI: It was a Christmas party.

THEO VON: Fair, fair play, lad.

ARI MATTI: And my—

THEO VON: And was it snowing out?

ARI MATTI: Lots of snow. Oh, so we need to be here tucked in.

THEO VON: Yes, sir.

ARI MATTI: Yes, we do. And there was this cousin, she was like in her 30s, maybe. Ginormous titties. I didn’t know that titties are the secret to life, but I know that something is there, you know. It’s like there’s sexuality is already— it’s— you just don’t know what to do with the information. Something about these titties are making me feel in a way, and I don’t know, you don’t— it’s not— it’s like innocent. It’s not I have an iPad to Google, right? It’s just this mystery feeling.

And I would sit in her lap and I would put my head, like, my back of my neck between my cousin’s titties, and I would, like, squeeze them, and I would feel—

THEO VON: Oh, just feel the pressure of two tits against the back of your head.

ARI MATTI: It feels amazing. That’s good. And all my cousins are laughing because they know.

THEO VON: Oh, they know.

ARI MATTI: So it’s funny to them, right?

THEO VON: They see this kid just—

ARI MATTI: I know, this little pervert, this little horn dog, right?

THEO VON: It’s just a horn dog. You’re just this f*— it’s almost like an electrical wire on the street that’s just rattling.

ARI MATTI: And I noticed the more I bring her this— she was drinking this red liquid, it was wine— and the more I would bring the wine, the more titty access I could get.

THEO VON: Oh, do tell.

ARI MATTI: Because she got a little crazier and crazier, and they started laughing more. And I kept going to the kitchen, a little Bill Cosby Jr. I was putting the juice, and I kept bringing her more wine, my dear. And you know what’s crazy? She gets so f*ed up, she like takes a nap on the couch.

THEO VON: Okay. Do you want to stop this story here?

ARI MATTI: No, no, no, no. That’s good. And I really want to squeeze the titties. But in my 7-year-old brain, something said no, right? Something said no, right?

THEO VON: The titties are closed.

ARI MATTI: And I felt bad about it, like that I even thought of it. So I went in my room and I felt bad. That’s how I know I can never rape. Even as a 7-year-old boy, there’s something in your body that goes, this— now that she’s sleeping, this is weird, right?

THEO VON: Right. If two people are playing the game, exactly, then we can have the game.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah.

THEO VON: Wow, dude. Yeah, let me think.

ARI MATTI: Oh, then it takes so many, you know, and after that it takes so many years for even to find out about sex, pussy, and all that. Yeah, but it’s funny when you’re a little pervert boy and you’re just all these emotions and all these— oh, you don’t know what to do with them.

Roy and the Tape Bridge

THEO VON: Oh yeah, well, we had this one fellow bus named Roy, I think his name was, or he said it was. And he would like, he used a hair dryer or whatever, so he was kind of, he was leaning towards being gay.

ARI MATTI: Uh-huh.

THEO VON: And because children didn’t use hair dryers, we just didn’t even know about it. And he knew about it. He would always have his with him. If you were even just hanging out with him in a room, he’d f*ing plug it in.

ARI MATTI: My mom would say he’s like a kid who loves a sunny day.

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah. But one time he— and he did get— I remember he got, he’s like, “Dude, if you take a piece, like a piece of tape, right? And you put one piece on the end, the top of your wiener, like tape it to the top of your wiener, and you put the other piece of the tape on the top of his wiener.” And I remember him like getting us to do stuff like that and stuff, or like play Navy or whatever, like just different shit that was just in hindsight, in hindsight, because then you’re just standing there and now there’s like this little bridge. You don’t realize it’s a bridge.

ARI MATTI: It’s a bridge.

THEO VON: You don’t realize that though.

ARI MATTI: It’s a bridge, right?

THEO VON: Because you think, “Oh, it’s just some tape on my wiener, some tape on their wiener.”

ARI MATTI: It’s like a Ouija board. Like, we’re opening up the spirits. There’s a portal.

THEO VON: Yeah, it’s a portal, dude.

ARI MATTI: There’s a portal.

THEO VON: So I think there’s stuff like that when kids are young and they don’t know. One time I found my buddy’s kids. I just walked in. I was like, I’d live with this family, they’re pretty much like family to me. I’d walked in and two of the young kids are in the bed naked together. But I think it’s just kids, like they don’t know what to do. My friend Scott would come over and we would like go on a date with our pillows, like in the room or whatever. And just like shit like that.

Babysitting Anxiety and Breaking All the Rules

ARI MATTI: My mom had boyfriends. I do think that being open to your children about sexuality— I don’t— I think at these times, especially with the internet, all this keeping it innocent is actually worse. And sometimes kids get really traumatized if the parents make it really traumatic. Because if you do something like explore your body or some of this weird shit and your dad walks in and starts yelling and beating the shit out of everybody, that’s actually really bad.

It’s hard to raise. Okay, I have a friend, he’s got a beautiful daughter, and I had to babysit for this little girl. She was like maybe 6 or 7. First time in my life I’ve ever been together with a small girl, and I got so nervous immediately, you know, because it’s like, it’s not even my daughter, it’s my friend’s daughter. They went to the city to do something, and I’ve already hung out with her, so—

THEO VON: Right, but when you’re the— oh dude, first time I had to watch my niece, I was like, “What the heck?”

ARI MATTI: I never thought about that. It’s actually, I can’t leave you alone because I’ll be downstairs watching TV and you’re up there f*ing jumping off a balcony, and now I gotta explain to my friend. So I’m nervous, you know. So she— and then the mother starts telling me all these things she can’t do. No peanuts. She literally— she’s going to explode into a— that. And then I gotta think about, wait, what has peanuts in them? Does Snickers— oh, Snickers. Oh, I got Snickers. But I gotta— now I’m starting to—

THEO VON: Right now you’re hiding stuff or covering things up, taping down a Snickers.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah. Then I’m like, “Oh, where’s a loose knife?” I start baby-proofing the place, basically, you know.

THEO VON: So, and you happen to bring 4 loose knives, which was crazy.

ARI MATTI: Exactly. Yeah. Oh, I guess I gotta hide the knives. I guess doing throwing knives. So then she goes, “No peanuts, blah blah blah blah blah.” Oh, and then she goes, “No watching—” what’s that series that girls love? Degrassi. Degrassi.

THEO VON: Degrassi High.

ARI MATTI: Degrassi.

THEO VON: Yeah, that show is now on— is it on— it’s on in Estonia?

ARI MATTI: Well, that time it was.

THEO VON: Oh wow. And girl, bring up Degrassi, dude. Is this the original?

ARI MATTI: It’s the original.

THEO VON: Wow, bro, I forgot about this.

ARI MATTI: And people— and little girls love this shit, but it’s got a lot of like sexual stuff in it. It’s a certain age where you’re ready for this show.

THEO VON: Got it.

ARI MATTI: She was not ready, so the mom tells me, “No Degrassi, you can watch Frozen.” And then she goes, “No, no candy because her sugar— because it’s like late at night, and when we’re picking her up, we need to put her to bed. If you give her sugar now, it’s all— you’re f*ing done, right?” All these rules. And then they go, “Oh, and watch out that she likes to climb stuff.” They noticed that in my apartment, I had the staircase that goes up like this, you know, it’s not circular.

THEO VON: Like a winding staircase.

ARI MATTI: Winding staircase. And it’s got the railing.

THEO VON: Like in Castlevania or Transylvania.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I’m a vampire. And they go, “Oh, don’t let her ride the railing. Don’t let her climb it.” You know, they already see the danger, you know. So they’re giving me this, don’t do it. No jelly beans, no fing Degrassi. No peanuts. No. Oh, f. Jeez, this is way more than I expected. And they leave.

THEO VON: Takes the fun out of it too.

ARI MATTI: I know.

THEO VON: Part of the fun of watching someone’s kid is seeing what happens if you don’t know what’s going on.

ARI MATTI: And then me and this angel, we’re like hanging out on the couch. We’re watching Frozen. She’s already seen it. I’ve seen it. And then like an hour in, I’m like, yeah, I want to be the cool uncle. Jellybean City. I got the jellybean. F* it.

THEO VON: Right. Or you smoke on the porch, let her watch you through the glass. That kind of shit. Yeah.

ARI MATTI: I get Jelly Beans up in this bitch. I put Degrassi on, she’s jumping up and down. We’re watching Degrassi, she’s running around having fun. Let’s go. And I’m like, and I tell her, I make her pinky swear, “Don’t tell nothing. You don’t say nothing.” And she’s like, “Okay.” And we run around Jelly Bean City, Degrassi’s on full blast. We’re listening to f*ing, what’s that, Glorilla?

THEO VON: NBA Youngboy.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, listen to crazy shit. We’re having fun.

THEO VON: I mean, nah, baby, when you got it, I don’t— Yeah.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. And then she goes, “Let’s ride on the railing.” And I’m like, “F* your parents, we’re taking a ride.”

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: So I go first, I come down fast. She’s like, “Oh my God, it’s my turn, my turn.” I’m like, “Okay.” She gets up there and I’m at the bottom. And because it’s— I’m trying to see where she can fall off.

THEO VON: Yeah, that’s called risk management.

ARI MATTI: Risk management. We got jelly beans, we got Degrassi, we’re riding rails.

THEO VON: Oh yeah.

ARI MATTI: And she comes down slow, butt first. She looks back at me and the face she has, she makes like a, “Mm.” I realize I can see it.

THEO VON: I don’t think so.

ARI MATTI: I think so.

THEO VON: You think so?

ARI MATTI: So I catch this little horn dog and she wants to go again. She keeps getting slower and slower.

THEO VON: And you’re putting her back up there.

ARI MATTI: You got—

THEO VON: I mean, what are you doing?

ARI MATTI: She wants to go again.

THEO VON: Well, you’re the f*ing manager of the place.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, but it’s hard to be like, no, you know.

THEO VON: Oh yeah, you’re right.

ARI MATTI: So she goes maybe 2, 3 more rides, right?

THEO VON: Oh my God, bro, you gotta chill, dude.

ARI MATTI: I mean, like you’re saying, I’m not sure if this is what it’s about, but I do know children are little horn dogs, you know.

Childhood Curiosity and Growing Up

THEO VON: Well, I think there’s a lot of— bring it, bring this up actually. What, like when does hormones start to affect the way that children act and behave? Oh dude, I remember when I was a kid now. And yes, sorry if I made you feel— I shouldn’t have been making you feel weird. No, no, no, I wasn’t trying to make you feel weird. I think I just got scared.

ARI MATTI: I didn’t know. You know, there’s more to the story.

THEO VON: Oh, there is? So should we have more?

ARI MATTI: We ride, we— she rides, she rides, we fun, we fun, we fun, Jelly Bean, Jelly Bean City. Degrassi, Degrassi, Degrassi. So then the parents get back. This bitch blows it immediately. She goes, “We had jelly beans, I rode the light, we watched Degrassi, it was so much fun.” And they’re, you know, my friend. And then my— oh, my friend stays over. We have a little beer, we haven’t seen each other in a long time, and the mom takes the kid home. And it’s this awkward moment between me and my friend. He goes, because they have a— they have that staircase too. And he looks at me, goes, “That staircase, didn’t she?” I go, “Yeah.” He goes, “Yeah, that’s a mom conversation.”

But see, then we talked about it. You also, as a parent, you have to be cool about this. Yeah, you know, like, you can’t— you have a little girl like that, you can’t be like, “Never, never touch the flower.”

THEO VON: That’s right.

ARI MATTI: Then she’s going to be banging prisoners when she’s 20 years old because she’s like, “Oh, Daddy said no flower touching.”

THEO VON: Yeah, I’m opening up a florist down there by the correctional center or whatever.

ARI MATTI: Florist. Center. It’s a f*ing forest down here now.

THEO VON: God.

ARI MATTI: So with kids, you know, it’s always— there’s a tender point. But that’s totally a mom-to-daughter conversation, of course.

Puberty and Early Curiosity

THEO VON: But it is interesting how you learn about sex, right? And what happens to you. This says puberty actually starts between age 8 and 13 in girls and 9 and 14 in boys. If it starts before age 8 in girls, before age 9 in boys, doctors often consider it early and worth checking out. But is it puberty that’s starting, or is it— because it is. I remember probably, maybe I was about 7 or 8, and I remember just pressing things against my crotch. Like, even if I would just was like pressing against my crotch felt good. So I’d find like, even if you were just walking by something and like, you ever see a tree that has like one of those kind of butt, like a little butt sticking out?

ARI MATTI: I’ve dated a few.

THEO VON: Yeah, so you’ve been to that forest before is what you’re telling us. But what I’m saying is this. Yeah, I remember as a kid, like, sometimes my dad and I would go walk to church and I would just walk— like, we’d walk by this one tree. And I remember him telling me at some point, at one age or something, I just would walk over and just press my crotch against it.

The Pink Panther Story

ARI MATTI: All I did as a kid was lay on the floor flat and just shove my little willy into the floor just to make it stimulate. Then I had a Pink Panther— remember Detective Pink Panther? Oh yeah, I had that as a toy, like a soft toy, and I would just like f this Pink Panther so much that even under my, like, under my, like, foreskin, I had pink hairs. I would f the s* out of this.

THEO VON: Oh God.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, we would solve some crimes and then you know what the award is? “You solved another crime, Panther.” Oh, that, and that exact toy. See, it’s got a little pussy, it’s got everything.

THEO VON: It doesn’t have a pussy, Ari, that’s just its body.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, but your imagination can add.

THEO VON: What? It doesn’t. No, you cannot.

ARI MATTI: And I would f* it so much. I still have it in my podcast studio in Estonia. It’s like a story that I told in my old podcast in Estonia. And between the crotch, all the hairs are like gone now because I just— and she was a little whore, wasn’t she?

THEO VON: It’s a man.

ARI MATTI: She was a little whore, wasn’t she? I would come home from school, I’d put Metallica on and just rail my Pink Panther. Every case got solved that night.

THEO VON: What if you listen to that song, Alice in Chains, down and— there’s a male?

ARI MATTI: Well, you know, it’s—

THEO VON: Thank you. Would you— let’s say it one more— say that one more time.

ARI MATTI: You know who else—

THEO VON: For the people in the back— say it. You got to hear yourself say it.

ARI MATTI: Gender is a spectrum.

THEO VON: Yeah, but let’s see what it says here. Perplexity, help us out. Can you use Perplexity? Let’s get this real quick.

ARI MATTI: See, see, see, see, see, see, see. Generally portrayed. Let’s—

THEO VON: Can you— would you mind reading it for us? All right, I just want this non-gendered. “The cartoon Pink Panther is generally portrayed as male.”

ARI MATTI: How did they put male as bold? Just to f* with me. They’re like, “Hey bro.” They did. Yeah, I was banging this toy. It was like, you know, what, were you banging them or do you think you were just rubbing? But right, but between the legs. So I already knew enough. I already knew enough. That’s where I gotta put it, you know. Yeah, I had fun with this dirty slut, dude.

THEO VON: That’s not a dirty slut. No, she was my little slut, dude.

ARI MATTI: It was— that was Pink Panther. That’s Heathcliff, or that’s— these are good people. These are Snoopy. These are good people.

ARI MATTI: And then I’d even f this whore when I even got like a little girl— not like a girlfriend, you know, like you get, get like a kiss. So I had like breakup sex, like once every 2 weeks I’d still f the s out of my fing Pink Panther and then went back to my little girlfriend next door. Yeah.

THEO VON: You’re running s*.

ARI MATTI: I run that s*. She was a little slut, dude.

THEO VON: Dear God.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stuffed Animals and Growing Up in Estonia

THEO VON: No, I just didn’t know that kind of stuff’s going on in the third world or whatever. But yeah, yeah, yeah, we take for granted here that animals and like different things like Mattel or these different companies— bring up some different Mattel animals from like the ’80s and ’90s if you can.

ARI MATTI: Mattel?

THEO VON: This was the company that made a lot of these stuffed animals. And I think we take it— we take for granted here in the United States that these animals get treated well, right? They get, you know, people—

ARI MATTI: I treat her real well.

THEO VON: Like Popples. Like, you ever see Popples?

ARI MATTI: Never.

THEO VON: Okay, but okay, well, Inspector Gadget—

ARI MATTI: I had a potato.

THEO VON: Okay, yeah, some people—

ARI MATTI: We had a long winter, communism, and a potato.

THEO VON: But here’s what I’m saying, but I think we take for granted in America that stuffed animals here get like— they’ll tuck them into bed and they’ll like treat them well or get them a little glass of water.

ARI MATTI: This bitch well at all? Yeah, this bitch got ran through, dude. He was a man. He was a dirty little—

THEO VON: He was a male cat.

ARI MATTI: No, no, no, dude, he was a male cat with pink skin.

THEO VON: He was obviously going through a lot.

ARI MATTI: And then, um, and then what? Like maybe like 10 years ago when I— when me and my girlfriend were chilling at my place, we did a little role play and she dressed as— because she knows the story from my old podcast so—

THEO VON: Oh for your birthday or something? She did it?

ARI MATTI: Yeah! She dressed up like The Pink Panther and I was the detective Closoir… Detective Closoir, I can’t remember his name. And I was like, “Da-da-dun dun dun. You’re sucking my cock.”

Growing Up, Sex, and Secrecy

THEO VON: Take me into Estonia a little bit though. Like, just like, well, let’s talk about this, like, because we’re talking about sex and being young. And so you’re saying that, like, what is the conversation really? Like, what is the real conversation you would have with the kid? Like, how do you really do that with a kid? Do you think— because obviously you and I grew up in a way where, like, we were figuring out ourselves. Like, for me, I realize now, like, I don’t like talking about a lot of sexual stuff with my friends even, because to me, like, sex was always like a secret thing.

ARI MATTI: Like, a private thing.

THEO VON: Yes. And it was secret. I had to sneak and find the magazines, and I had to do it in secret. So like, my whole life I’ve always felt like, like it’s like, it’s not like scary, but it’s like a secretive thing. It’s like very like, it’s super secret.

ARI MATTI: That’s good or no?

THEO VON: I don’t think that it’s good.

Sauna Culture in Estonia

ARI MATTI: I don’t think it’s good either, right? Like my household, I had a single mother, we had a stepdad at one point, but my mom had a lot of boyfriends. She would be— you know, in Estonia we have sauna culture, so everyone’s naked. Everyone’s naked.

THEO VON: Well, you have what culture?

ARI MATTI: Sauna culture.

THEO VON: Sauna.

ARI MATTI: Saunas.

THEO VON: Okay, saunas. Yeah.

ARI MATTI: Like even as a little kid, I would sit— you know a sauna, it’s got the steps?

THEO VON: Yes.

ARI MATTI: It’s hotter up there. So kids would always be sitting in front of the feet of the adults.

THEO VON: Got it.

ARI MATTI: And even my mom’s girlfriends would come over and I would be in the sauna with the ladies. I would sit in front and pussy is like so far from my face.

THEO VON: Right.

Growing Up, Sexuality, and Parenting

ARI MATTI: Like as a kid, I would look back, I’d laugh at it. They would laugh at it.

THEO VON: Very close, a casual distance.

ARI MATTI: Yes. And it’s like, being naked and sexuality in my family — at least this is not the case for all Estonian families — but we also don’t have any Christian guilt or none of that. You know, it’s like a communistic thing, which has Christian values to some extent, some homophobia and some chauvinism, all that, you know, that comes with it. But sexually wise, sin is not like included in it, you know? So there’s no guilt really feeling sexual things. And in my house, yeah, my mom would have boyfriends. I would hear them have sex, and my mom would be like, “Mommy needs her own little time, so you go hang out with the sister.” I know that that means like — I didn’t know what sex was, but I knew it’s like that little grown-up thing, right?

THEO VON: So you knew there was something grown-up going on, so it did feel adult, but it didn’t feel wrong.

ARI MATTI: And then, you know, I would have like — even when I was like 14, 15, I started having little girlfriends over. Dude, when I was like 15, my mom — this girl was like very shy and we were watching Ice Age in my room and then my mom would bring us cinnamon rolls and then when she didn’t look, my mom would give me like 2 condoms just in case. We didn’t even f*. I was like fully virgin.

THEO VON: But she wanted you to just feel okay about it.

ARI MATTI: She wanted me to feel okay. And I think that was very healthy. Like, looking at other people my age who I’ve met, and I talk about their childhood, about their sexuality. It seems like sex, exactly like you said, it’s a thing in the shadows. And I think when you’re a young, especially, or whatever, young man, young boy, I think it’s really bad to hide those things and make you feel bad about having certain emotions that you can’t really control. It’s just horrible.

THEO VON: Yeah, that’s the thing, is that you can’t control it. So it’s like, then it makes you feel ashamed, a part of you that you have scientifically — there is no way you can control. And you —

ARI MATTI: And then what happens? Then you’re 40 and you’re in a dungeon with like a drill in your ass.

THEO VON: Oh, that’s crazy.

ARI MATTI: Because I gotta let go because Mommy said I’m a bad boy. That’s what happens.

THEO VON: Is it really?

ARI MATTI: I was — I mean, I guess.

THEO VON: I don’t know.

ARI MATTI: I was a good boy. I’m not going to have a drill up my ass. I’m going to treat a girl nice and then we’re going to have sex. Yeah, like two adults.

The Role of Parents in Sexual Education

THEO VON: Yeah, I think this is definitely a good time to learn about some of this. Now with porn, I mean, wow. Let me think about some of this for a second, dude, because I like talking about this stuff because it’s also important. A lot of people don’t have some of these conversations, right? And they don’t think about it, and parents don’t know because I think it’s interesting your mother would make you the cinnamon roll. So here’s something — it’s like, you know, you’re a good boy, you get the dessert, and I care about you. There’s something — a mother making a treat, giving you an offering. But also here is something I want to let you know, that I understand what’s going on here, and that I want you to be safe no matter what. So then it’s like, that’s what a mother always wants for her child, is the child to always be safe. But I think the presentation of that is pretty interesting. What do you think? Because you know, there are some Native American tribes where an uncle or even a father or brother will teach this younger sibling about masturbation — will literally go out with him into the woods and teach him how to jerk off.

ARI MATTI: It’s like my stepdad. I was already 17 and he’s like saying, “When it gets hard, you know, you can watch videos and play around with it. That’s okay.” I’m like, okay dude, stick a finger up your ass. I’ll show you what’s a good time. Yeah, it’s already too late, you know. Yeah, I’m ready.

THEO VON: I got two toothbrushes hidden up my ass, brother, you know what I’m saying? We’re partying, dude.

ARI MATTI: Click this remote and see how I feel. I got a thing up my ass that makes me go, oh, yazu!

THEO VON: Yeah, dude, click this remote and I’ll run a f*ing 5:240, brother.

ARI MATTI: Click this remote, bro.

The Game Show Idea

THEO VON: That would be a great game show. You have 7 people somewhere, right, in like a quiet area, right? And one of them — and you have to be like 40 feet away — one of them has some sort of remote-activated sexual apparatus hidden in their butt.

ARI MATTI: The holy hole.

THEO VON: Yeah, the butt, or whatever the 11th fingerprint some people call it, right? So, but you don’t know who it is. You only get to press it 3 times.

ARI MATTI: You have the offshore account, as we call it.

THEO VON: Yeah, the offshore account.

ARI MATTI: Like when you’re a Christian, you can’t f* the holy hole, but you can do the offshore account.

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ARI MATTI: The IRS don’t know about this one.

THEO VON: Yeah, we’re talking about where — well, let’s just say where people do Malaysian banking, right? That’s what we’ll call it. So anyway, that’s the game show. You have 7 people and you just get to look on their faces or whatever, or you can ask them a question and while they’re answering you could buzz. But if you don’t have the right person at the right time, then you’re going to get the wrong person answering.

ARI MATTI: Like when you see a lot of people in a pool and you see that one guy pissing, it’s so clear, you know, this one.

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah, that’s fine. Is that okay to pee in a pool in your country? Is that normal here? Is it very similar?

ARI MATTI: Every time I’m in water, I pee. Yeah, it feels so good. Yeah, it feels holy.

Watching Your Kids Grow Up

THEO VON: Yeah. I think getting that out early, it must be tough for a parent. And here’s why I think it’s tough — I bet, and I don’t know, I’m not a parent — but I bet it is. You just don’t want to see your kid grow up that fast.

ARI MATTI: 100%. Nobody likes to see that.

THEO VON: And it’s probably such a special age where your kid isn’t like — and it is, it’s a special age for young people too. It’s like, dude, that’s like the best years probably where you’re like, your dad has like a new best friend, you guys do cool stuff together, you’re like, he’s your hero. And then somebody shows him some cooter or something, or draws a picture of some pussy on a piece of, you know, on the inside of a big oyster shell or something, and shows it to the boy, and then everything changes.

ARI MATTI: Everything changes. Everything becomes about that.

THEO VON: Yes.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, but —

THEO VON: So it must be tough for a dad.

ARI MATTI: Must be tough.

THEO VON: Maybe I’m just thinking of why.

ARI MATTI: And then looking at my friend with his daughter, you know, that’s even tougher because I think —

THEO VON: Oh, it’s your angel.

ARI MATTI: It’s your angel. Because I think with boys it’s more expected. Like even with my mother, me being sexual, very accepted. My sister was a bit older and she was very protective of her. You know, mothers always love their sons. Dads always love their daughters. It’s like a thing, you know, they always say it’s like a thing. Mothers always are very tough on their daughters because they’re a woman and they know how tough it is to be a woman. And you got to toughen these bitches up for the real world.

THEO VON: Oh, you got to —

ARI MATTI: Nobody touches your f*ing flower.

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: You know, but as a boy, fertilize the ground, you know, have fun. So that’s another thing with girls, because I remember that. I literally remember even me being a little kid and having girlfriends, and my mom would be like, “That’s cool, you know, my boy is cool. Yeah, my boy’s having a little girlfriend, he’s the hot guy at school, he’s the funny guy, that’s cool.” But if my sister would date, that’s like a, oof, like a girl.

THEO VON: So, right, yeah, it’s a total different energy, man. Yeah, I remember they had a gal who would like kind of rub Kleenexes on her, like in her underpants, whatever, and then throw them off the balcony and let us grab them and catch them and stuff. Really? Almost like catching the bouquet at a wedding or something.

ARI MATTI: Wow. The Kleenex with the juices?

THEO VON: It wasn’t juices, but it was like it had enough of an ambiance where you want — like, I remember putting on cleats one time to catch it, you know?

ARI MATTI: Really?

THEO VON: So yeah, or like, you know, like activated sneakers kind of. I don’t know if you guys have cleats in your country or not.

Childhood Curiosity and Awakening

ARI MATTI: We do have cleats. One time I had a — when I was a little boy, there was a girl that stayed over. She was like my mother’s friend, old classmate’s daughter, maybe. She was like maybe 19. I was like 11 or 12 or something like that. She stayed over one night, and the next day I’m alone at home. And you know when you’re alone as a boy at home, that’s when the devil comes to visit.

THEO VON: You know, your crotch suddenly like shows up on the wall like a genie coming out of a lamp, like, “What are we going to do?”

ARI MATTI: Everything in my house needs to get f*ed.

THEO VON: Yeah, what’d you say?

ARI MATTI: Everything in my house needs to get f*ed. Like, I tried my cock everywhere — the couches, the pillows. So then I go up there.

THEO VON: Oh my God.

ARI MATTI: And this 19-year-old — I think it’s like the pheromones and her cologne were on the bed. I would —

THEO VON: I literally had cologne on. She sounds 19.

ARI MATTI: I mean, I think so. I think it was cologne, but not cologne. What’s a perfume? Oh, I didn’t know it’s —

THEO VON: Sorry, sorry.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, I didn’t know it’s okay. Yeah, a smell, a really nice —

THEO VON: Oh yeah.

ARI MATTI: God, I go into the bed, I put the covers on, I take the pillow she slept on, I’m like forcing it on my face, and I’m like jacking off with —

THEO VON: Dude, I don’t even know what we’re talking about anymore. This was supposed to be an interview about being from Estonia, but here we go, dude. But dude, I remember I would hide in my buddy’s — at their house, I would hide — his mother was like this sweet — she was just like a good — I don’t know, but she was attractive too. And like, there was that energy where you’re attracted to your buddy’s mom or something. You keep going over to his house, you don’t even like —

ARI MATTI: I don’t even like the game you’re playing.

THEO VON: Yeah, yeah, dude. And I would, instead of sleeping in the room with him, like we would build like a fort or something, I would go sleep like in the hall by her, like by their door and shit. Like just weird shit.

ARI MATTI: Weird shit.

THEO VON: But still legal stuff.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THEO VON: But I remember I’d get in the clothes hamper and just like, she had like one of her bras was in there. Oh. And I don’t know if it was still warm, but I thought it was.

ARI MATTI: It was.

Unrequited Love and Early Discoveries

THEO VON: And I would just smell it, like put it close to my f*ing— like I just wanted to push it all the way into my nose forever.

ARI MATTI: That’s what I did with the pillow. I just wanted to f*ing shove it down my DNA. Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, I wrote a love letter to my friend’s mother, by the way.

THEO VON: Oh wait, bro, you need to—

ARI MATTI: I got out of hand.

THEO VON: You got it. Yeah, you should really, really bad. And somebody should be watching you. Yes, still to this day. That’s a lot, dude. Did you give it to her?

ARI MATTI: Yes. No. And she never addressed it. Oh, it’s so weird. But it wasn’t anything.

THEO VON: It’s called unrequited love. Bring up unrequited love.

ARI MATTI: It wasn’t anything.

THEO VON: I’ve read about this before. Hold on, I want to—

ARI MATTI: What is unrequited?

THEO VON: That’s what I’m saying. I want to help you get to this. Just not to the solution, like I have no— unrequited love is one-sided romantic attraction where feelings are not reciprocated, often causing profound emotional distress, including loneliness, low self-esteem, and anxiety. It commonly stems from idealized fantasies, unreturned crushes, or unbalanced relationships, with roughly 98% of people experiencing it. Wow. So you’re not— exactly, you’re not alone.

ARI MATTI: I’m not alone, dude.

THEO VON: Well, how often does unrequited love lead to crime? Can you look that up? And then what were you going to say? I—

ARI MATTI: That’s what I was also thinking.

THEO VON: Unrequited love is a very common—

ARI MATTI: Making violence of murder. Awesome.

THEO VON: There you go. Yep, there you go right there. The actions can be severe, including stalking, violence, and murder.

ARI MATTI: But I was a little boy, so she was stronger than me.

THEO VON: But also, three options: stalking, violence, and murder. It’s not like it’s just like include murder, because stalking, it’s wrong, but it’s—

ARI MATTI: Well, even the mother I wrote that letter to — when I was going home from school, I would take a longer route just to go by her house and maybe catch a titty. I never did, but I gave the universe a chance to give me a sign.

THEO VON: Just to see something?

ARI MATTI: Just to see something. Because that’s also like, I mean, we had porn, but this was, you gotta like download a f*ing image and it was hard. It wasn’t like right there.

THEO VON: You had to pray for it.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, so to see a titty, I need an intervention by God.

THEO VON: Right.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: Oh man.

The Magazine in the Woods

ARI MATTI: Then I found a magazine. You ever find like a magazine in the woods? You know, the classic when there’s porn in the woods or something?

THEO VON: Yes.

ARI MATTI: It was during winter.

THEO VON: Who hid it there, do you think?

ARI MATTI: They always hide. I don’t get it at all.

THEO VON: Because somebody hides porn in every woods. I think it could have been Israel. I think if somebody hid it in every woods, it’s Israel.

ARI MATTI: It’s like the pages.

THEO VON: It’s like the pages. It’s the pages.

ARI MATTI: You corrupt young men. You corrupt the future army you’re about to fight. By showing them a huge horse cock going into a pregnant lady.

THEO VON: Because they all jerk off and then the army’s weaker. It’s not a bad strategy.

ARI MATTI: Well, you know, that’s what happened with Ukraine and Russia because Russia deployed a lot of North Korean soldiers and now they’re first time having internet access. They’re like not fighting. All they’re doing is drinking and jacking off.

THEO VON: Nuh-uh.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, because it’s like, imagine you’re seeing porn for the first time.

THEO VON: F*ing jack off by myself.

ARI MATTI: Wow. And let’s bring that up.

THEO VON: What are you saying, Koreans are jacking off?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, North Koreans, because they had no internet. Now they’re deployed, it’s like a huge thing.

THEO VON: I mean, it’s Pandora’s box.

ARI MATTI: And then I found this magazine. One time I found it was during wintertime, it was under ice because it was so frozen.

THEO VON: It’s almost like ice fishing. You ever been ice fishing? Yeah.

ARI MATTI: And then I had to get a pick and to like—

THEO VON: I—

ARI MATTI: It took me hours with my hands freezing to access these titties.

THEO VON: Oh, it’s like the new Frankenstein with Jacob Elordi. Have you seen the beginning of that?

ARI MATTI: Exactly. So clang, clang, I get a big block of ice under the magazine out. I put it in towels near my— near my— what’s that on the wall?

THEO VON: Radiator.

ARI MATTI: Radiator, near the radiator. It took me like days for it to dry off. Water was everywhere. And then it dried off and I had to peel. I got only one page open because it was all fed up, but it took me like— I was like a detective. It took me like days to see, and it was all fed up except these two big round titties. So I cut the titties out and kept them in my f*ing Batman wallet for years. And I would show other guys at school, I’d be like, “Check out this,” and show these two ominous titties.

THEO VON: I love that. Yeah, like wolf’s eyes.

First Porn and an Unexpected Encounter

ARI MATTI: And the first porn video I ever saw, it was gay porn. I just didn’t know. Wow. It was like so low pixels, I just saw cock going into an orifice, and then like it took me like minutes to realize there’s another cock hanging near the orifice. It broke my heart. And the guy who was banging, doing that porn, he’s an Estonian guy. I met him like 20 years later.

THEO VON: No way! Did you tell him it hurt your feelings?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, I told— I really— I said, “I thought you were banging a chick.” He goes, “This is my friend Markus.”

THEO VON: Oh, I was like, they’re friends, huh?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah.

THEO VON: You wonder if people are friends in some of those videos sometimes.

ARI MATTI: The whole f*ing—

North Korean Soldiers and Internet Access

THEO VON: North Korean soldiers hooked on porn after getting internet access for first time while helping Russia fight Ukraine. North Korean military men who joined the war front in Ukraine on behalf of Russia have— why would— first of all, look this up separately, keep me on this page. Why would North Korean men be supporting the Russian side in this war? I just—

ARI MATTI: Communism, because they’re also communistic, you know. Oh, so they’re supporting common interests. Everyone’s against North Korea except— so Russia’s seeking for partners, you know.

THEO VON: Got it. North Korean military men who joined the war front in Ukraine on behalf of Russia have unfettered internet access for the first time and may be using it to watch tons of pornography. That’s the kind of sentence— this one, I don’t trust the media— “and may be using it, might be, to watch tons of pornography.” You know what I’m saying? Like, yeah, play what— give me one side of the net, right?

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: According to a report that a Pentagon official was unable to confirm.

ARI MATTI: So yeah, okay.

THEO VON: I’m not saying that’s not true, but I know just the way they shape— if you look at the way they shape articles and stuff. Oh yeah, according to a report that a Pentagon official was unable to confirm, warriors from the Hermit Kingdom engaged in a battle in Ukraine for the first time Monday, but they purportedly started fighting different demons before stepping foot onto any field, according to a report. Does it say what their favorite—

ARI MATTI: There’s a joke up there, they go, “Hardened soldiers indeed.”

THEO VON: “A usually reliable source tells me the North Korean soldiers who have deployed to Russia have never had unfettered access to the internet before. As a result, they’re gorging on pornography.”

ARI MATTI: Someone’s telling you to hold the front line, but you’re seeing everything you’ve ever dreamed of for the first time. I’m staying at the base, brother. I mean, we can give up a little land. Yeah, yeah, we can give up a little land.

THEO VON: If we give up a couple hundred more acres, you know. So just— so I can get through a couple more of these categories. Yeah, that I’m really curious about, dude.

Youth Exchange and Growing Up

ARI MATTI: When I did the youth exchange program in Romania when I was a kid—

THEO VON: Hold on, hold on a second. I just don’t know how many stories I could take.

ARI MATTI: There was—

THEO VON: Where somebody ends up jacking off all over at the end of it.

ARI MATTI: Just—

THEO VON: You’re not judging you. I just have to fing brace myself for a second, dude. Let me touch my fing neck for a second.

ARI MATTI: Great. Release the cranium. Imagine you start doing that on a plane, dude. “I gotta hold on a second. I gotta release my cranium.” You put a f*ing balloon up your nose, dude. People are getting weird out there, dude. You know when someone’s like stretching at the airport? It’s like too much, you know, when they’re on the ground and they’re doing their little things. Oh yeah, just take your bad hip. Yeah, I’m uncomfortable, dude.

THEO VON: I want to do squats too, but I’m not going to just get your f*ing bad ankle to Minneapolis, brother. Dude, but I— here’s a dream I had: one day if I had a long enough layover, I wanted to go for a jog in the Atlanta airport or the Madrid airport. I think it’s really, really big. Yeah. And you want to go jog because you could jog because in the Madrid airport it’s like giant. You could do like a 2-mile run in it. So I just wanted to go for like a run, like say if you had a long enough layover you’re trying to kill time, but you also want to get some exercise. Because if you’re running late for your plane, you’re welcome to do that all day for sure. So I’m like, if you just had your headphones on and you just popped on shadowboxing— yeah, just popped on some shorts— why not go for a run? Yeah, that’s always been a dream of mine ever since I was young, to run in an airport. To run, but to go for a run in an airport. I think it’s to do something someplace that seems obtuse, you know?

ARI MATTI: Uh-huh.

Talking to Kids About Sex

THEO VON: But let’s— I just want to make sure that we get to the end of this thought of like, so did we cover fully? So as a mother, I think, or as any parent, it’s just to create a comfortable way to have that conversation and keep it ongoing so that it can be— there’s room for it to breathe. Like, yeah, I think if it’s taboo or if you don’t talk about it at all, then it feels like something’s wrong, you’re correct, scary. Or then you just learn— this is another thing I just realized— your friends tell you, and it’s always some evil older brother that’s like calling you a fag or whatever, always, and just— or doing this in front of you like this, you know.

ARI MATTI: It’s like too much.

THEO VON: It’s gross. And that kid probably learned from some dark, dark way, right?

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: So I think like, yeah, but then here’s what happens is you learn from a kid, you learn from some like— and then you become like, “Oh, I need to do certain things, or I need to operate certain ways, or make sure that I’m like trying to engage with sex or something so that other people, my peers, will think it’s cool,” right?

Losing Virginity

ARI MATTI: Well, the only reason I wanted to lose my virginity was because all my friends had lost their virginity. Yeah, it’s not even— remember how much you wanted to have sex? Like in your DNA you feel it, but then when the opportunity— how scared you are. Dude, I was literally so terrified, it’s crazy. And also my girlfriend, when we decided to do it, I had already lied that I’ve done it, so I had to pretend like I’ve been here before.

THEO VON: And what’d you do to pretend? Just stand straighter or whatever?

Losing Virginity Stories and Growing Up

ARI MATTI: Well, I didn’t even know, you know, pussy has angles. To even get my cock into her sweet little angel hole, it took me several tries. I had to try several times.

THEO VON: And of course, it’s like trying keys on a door. You’re like, oh, that one’s not it, or that one— yeah, that one goes to that other place.

ARI MATTI: They never explained that in porn, you know. You don’t know that. Yeah. And it took so long. Yeah, I had to— and I came within like, maybe it was like 2 seconds or something, and then you just got to lie. I told her, like, “It’s my third time, so I’m still pretty new.”

THEO VON: Oh, dude, I lost my virginity behind a bowling alley in our town. Really? That they’re refurbishing now. So I’m glad that they’re doing that.

ARI MATTI: Wait, but in what room? The toilet?

THEO VON: No, behind it. Outside? Yeah. In the woods?

ARI MATTI: What?

THEO VON: Yeah. No, it was sex, but it was— yeah, I lost my virginity behind this bowling alley. Bring it up over there. Tiffany Lane’s over there.

ARI MATTI: Oh, you’ve talked about this. Theo dusted off his little wand and got his weasel grease for the first time here. That means these lanes are well-oiled and the ambiance are well done.

THEO VON: Pretty cool, huh? Oh, here it is right there. I hate to see that it’s closed. Good place if you came early like Theo. I know his girl didn’t like that he came so early, but that just makes him an alpha. Let’s go. Thank you. Thank you, Nicholas F. Wow, it’s all Theo. Places—

ARI MATTI: It’s all Theo, dude.

THEO VON: I had no idea, dude.

ARI MATTI: You took this business down, probably. Now there’s all these little kids trying to get their dick wet, and they’re not even interested in the lanes. This bowling alley owner must be so— his mind must be like, “The f* has been happening the last 4 years?”

THEO VON: Why is everybody behind the building?

ARI MATTI: Nobody wants to use the lanes anymore.

THEO VON: Places full of rich history. Theo Von became a man behind this alley. Shout out to the Patreon. Agents for giving him the strength to do so. Amen to that. I’m here because of Theo Von, who lost something precious at this bowling alley so long ago. Any good place for Theo is good enough for me. Oh, that’s nice of you. Thank you, my man Wheezy.

ARI MATTI: Again, Theo. It’s all Theo. It’s literally all Theo.

THEO VON: I didn’t know. Sorry. Yeah, but anyway, thank you guys for some of the warm sentiment. And yeah, just a beautiful place, and they are reopening it soon, so I am excited about that.

ARI MATTI: You should go to the—

THEO VON: Go to the ribbon cutting.

ARI MATTI: You should go to the reopening.

THEO VON: I did— are we even going to mess this place up by even talking about this on here?

ARI MATTI: No, they’re totally f*ed now.

THEO VON: But it closed there. When did it close?

ARI MATTI: Oh, but they’re going to see a $2 million renovation, getting a new bowling alley.

THEO VON: You know what, I should have reopened it.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, this is the spot.

Talking to Your Kids About Sex

THEO VON: Dang. Yeah, but still, I hope that people practice, you know what I’m saying, bumper bowling, if they do around there. Just safe activity. But what would you— if you’re a dad, what do you think you say to your son? Like, really, like, what do you really say to your son if you think— and when do you think you would do it? Like, I’m trying to think, if I’d had a dad around that was going to communicate like that, what would I have liked— like, it’s probably like around 11 or 12.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, you see— well, you see it way before that, probably, you know, the little willy. Like, did you show your little cock everywhere when you were a kid?

THEO VON: No.

ARI MATTI: Did you show it? I showed it to everybody. I had to.

THEO VON: Really?

ARI MATTI: It felt so good. And people would laugh and feel good. Like, my mom would have her girlfriends over. They would drink wine, and I would do this thing where I would slide— like, you know, they’re like in on the couches in the living room, and I would slide on my socks, and I had little— these like gray sweatpants with a little hole in front. I put my little willy—

THEO VON: Oh wow—

ARI MATTI: Play the guitar like this and then run back in my room. I mean, dying laughing. They were like— right, then I did it so much that eventually my mom was like, “You know, that’s not right.”

THEO VON: You’re like, you’re 30 now, you gotta— yeah, you’re sliding out there.

ARI MATTI: So I would do stuff like that. I would love that. That’s like funny.

THEO VON: Oh yeah, I think it’s definitely funny. This, Perplexity says the best approach is to make it an ongoing, calm conversation, not one big talk.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah, that’s— I guess that’s true.

THEO VON: Oh dude, I remember I’ve talked about this before, but my uncle was like— my uncle, or I don’t know if he was our uncle, but he was like a guy that somebody was making love to that had a car, right? And so he would bring us to the wine store, and he left me in there one time. He was going to do something.

ARI MATTI: Jeez.

THEO VON: So I’m wandering around in there and some lady walks up. She’s like, “Have you seen my kitty?” And I didn’t know what she was talking about. And I was probably, I think I was maybe 12. And then she opens her jacket. She was naked. No.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. Wait, why would you be an angel like that?

THEO VON: I don’t know why, but I didn’t know what was going on. I just remember being like very fully naked. I don’t remember if it was bush or whatever. I mean, everything was zen. I remember that, dude. But it was just kind of crazy, you know? Must be for real, now I can feel. It was nice, dude, but I just— it was like a— I remember that that happened, but I think my uncle had said something after that. He maybe— he asked me a couple questions about— but I think it’s just like, yeah, like make her do it.

ARI MATTI: Maybe.

THEO VON: No, he did not. Oh, that would have been crazy. No, he didn’t have any.

ARI MATTI: My girlfriend showed her tits to like a young kid one time.

THEO VON: Oh, wow.

ARI MATTI: Just because, to blow his f*ing mind.

THEO VON: F yeah. That’s fing kind of f*ed up, but it’s cool.

ARI MATTI: Big ass titties.

THEO VON: And this kid was like, “Those f*ing yams, huh?”

ARI MATTI: Yeah, dude.

THEO VON: I’ll tell you this. One time at YMCA summer camp— shout out YMCA, best summer camps in the world, I’ll say that, facts— they had— we would go to this park and it was in Louisiana. Bring it up over there. Fontainebleau.

ARI MATTI: Let me guess, the reviews are all for you.

THEO VON: No, nobody knows about this, dude. Nobody knows about this. But it was like raining one day and we sat there and they had this guy named Eddie and he was pretty cool.

ARI MATTI: And, Fontainebleau.

THEO VON: Just look at the pictures of— yep, that’s it.

ARI MATTI: It’s very pretty.

THEO VON: It’s very pretty. Very beautiful place. But, like, everybody’s bored because it was raining and so you got to walk up and look down like his girlfriend’s shirt one time.

ARI MATTI: One time, that’s all you need.

THEO VON: And I just remember I walked up and looked, and then I was like, oh, I didn’t get to see it. I said that like I just made it up or whatever. They let me go one more time. They disrespected the, the, you know. But I don’t know if it was so powerful that I actually couldn’t see it, like you blanked, right? Like it just— you staring into something, you know, just like, yeah.

From Estonia to the USA: Ari’s Journey into Stand-Up

THEO VON: I do want to learn a little bit about what brought you here from Estonia to the USA. Like, why did you come?

ARI MATTI: Well, stand-up, of course.

THEO VON: Okay, so you were doing stand-up there?

ARI MATTI: I was doing it in Estonia, Australia— Estonia in the capital Tallinn. I did in Australia, Melbourne. I did in Bangkok for a year. I was the feature on the road in Asia with a lot of guys. I met Ari Shaffir that way. I met Sam Tallent in Estonia because he came through. I did it in Canada.

THEO VON: He came to Estonia?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, I invited him.

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: I put some gigs up for him. It was awesome.

THEO VON: So were you running your own show there?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah, we have like our own comedy club.

THEO VON: Okay.

ARI MATTI: Me and my friends, like 8 of us basically own.

THEO VON: And it’s still active?

ARI MATTI: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Summer tour, they’re all killing it.

THEO VON: How big is Tallinn?

ARI MATTI: 600,000, I think. That’s big. Yeah, it’s pretty big.

THEO VON: How big is Estonia?

ARI MATTI: 1.4 million. But you know, when you say 1.4 million population, what is it really? Like actually online voting people who know what’s happening in the world, maybe 60,000.

THEO VON: 60,000.

ARI MATTI: You know, it’s like when you say, what’s— how much is in America? It’s like a big number, right?

THEO VON: Right. Yeah.

ARI MATTI: But how much of those people are actually consumers and they go to shows, they go to like, like online people?

THEO VON: I see what you’re saying. Right. Like America, I think the population now— what is the population now? I’d bet it’s about 350 million.

ARI MATTI: That’s crazy.

THEO VON: Wow. The US population is approximately 342 to 349 million. But yeah, what percent are like—

ARI MATTI: Kind of those 350 million, I reckon actual people, it’s maybe 3 million, right?

THEO VON: A lot of bots.

ARI MATTI: A lot of—

THEO VON: A lot of bots, a lot of NPCs. I think that could be right. Did you, the people there, do they— is comedy different there? Would they get our comedy? What is humor like there?

Estonia, the Soviet Union, and the Rise of Stand-Up Comedy

ARI MATTI: Well, you see, that’s why stand-up had such an explosion as well. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. That’s when Estonia became a country again. We were a country in the ’40s before Soviet Union rocked around, and we were Soviet Union basically all the time. You know, Estonians get really offended when you call us Russian, you know, because we’re like Estonian, but it’s a very they/them behavior, you know. It’s like, “You were Mike last week,” you know. It’s like most of our history we’ve been Russia, so I don’t get offended when people say that, but it’s a thing we have. So there’s a lot of pride in Estonia right now, being Estonian, language, everything, you know.

THEO VON: It’s a beautiful place.

ARI MATTI: It is. You would— because you seem like a guy, America is very loud. It’s loud, it’s a lot. The highways are loud, there’s a lot of pollution. It’s loud, it’s a lot.

THEO VON: I agree.

ARI MATTI: That’s why you guys are also like culturally like the leaders, because there’s a lot of tension and a lot of push and pull. A lot of push and pull creates beautiful art. A lot of tension creates beautiful art. So that’s why you guys do that.

But Estonia, very serene, calm, sauna, the sea, the ocean, quiet space, space. We love space. We love quiet. It’s not a lot of people. So when the Soviet Union collapses with like rap music, culture, movies, stand-up comedy— the more, you know, to control— what communism does really well when it works is to control people. You control their subconscious, their mind. So that’s why there was all this, you can’t speak bad about the government, there’s all this censorship, right? You can’t say bad words, no sexual stuff. You have to keep people’s subconscious subdued to control them, just like they’re doing now in North Korea. That’s what you have to do.

Comedy, Culture, and the Power of Division

THEO VON: Well, just like even that’s happening now here, I think, in America — the way that they sedate us with certain things you can and can’t say online, that sort of thing.

ARI MATTI: No, that’s what you do. But the more tension creates, the bigger the release when you get to say it. Like, that’s how stand-up started in America. So much tension with the government, racial tensions, everything. And then a guy named Lenny Bruce starts riffing with a cigarette in his mouth, start saying crazy shit. And people go into this room like, “Holy f*, this is where you can talk off the record. This is how I talk with my friends when the government isn’t listening.”

That’s why communists — that’s how it, you know, that’s how whispering started even. And literature back in the day — why Russian literature is so beautiful, it’s because it’s out of all this poverty and you have to speak through the flowers. That means I can’t say “f* the government,” but I can say it in a different way. So parameters, like having parameters also create beautiful art.

And then when the Soviet Union collapsed, all the floodgates are open. We get South Park, Chappelle’s Show, Knight Rider, MacGyver, Grey’s Anatomy, Felicity, Friends. It’s all like coming into our consciousness. And then me and another friend Sander and another group of guys, the Comedy Estonia guys, used to be our organization back in the days. We were the first generation of comedians. So now we’re the first adults talking about stuff that American entertainment talks about. Potty-mouth stuff.

THEO VON: So they didn’t have it before?

ARI MATTI: Not at all.

THEO VON: So when you were a kid, they didn’t have like an Estonian comedian?

ARI MATTI: We had comedic influences, but it’s all controlled by the f*ing — it’s all mainstream. It’s all that. “Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.”

THEO VON: Like Big Bird or something.

ARI MATTI: Yeah, like Tonight Show, Johnny Carson, like stuff like that. So then when we started, we were the first ones at the well of creativity. Now that there’s no lines, the internet keeps everything open. So it was a big explosion. Open mics would have hundreds of people in Estonia — literally people squeezing in just to see this new art form. So it was a beautiful explosion. It’s like f*ing the Beatles shit. Yeah, so it was amazing for us.

THEO VON: Dude, that’s so cool and so incredible.

ARI MATTI: The first hours of material, let’s be honest, they’re not the most original, just because we’re the first ones at the well. I just got the first cup of water. No one’s ever made an airplane joke. I’m going to do a f*ing 12-minute closer that would be so hacky here, but it’s the first time anyone’s talked about this.

Comedians as the Last Free Voices

THEO VON: Wow, dude, that’s so wild. There is something that’s so thankful about — let me say something. That’s why I think we’re in a spot now where comedians sometimes are the people that are the only ones, and the few podcasters, that are saying something that’s like, not the mainstream narrative.

ARI MATTI: Well, exactly. And that’s how podcasts basically took over the media. It’s just because the more you subdue the subconsciousness, the bigger the release.

THEO VON: What’s that movie? This movie is great if you’ve ever seen it. It was the movie Titanic.

ARI MATTI: Titanic.

THEO VON: Titanic’s so good, huh?

ARI MATTI: It’s a great movie.

THEO VON: They had it in your country late, but I had it.

ARI MATTI: God, I think we’re getting Avatar next year, so I’m very excited about that, dude.

THEO VON: Yeah, I remember being in Vietnam and they had just gotten Stand By Me when I was over there. And they were f*ing crazy. You had all these Vietnamese people dressing up like the characters from Stand By Me and singing that song. “When the night come, the land is gone.”

ARI MATTI: We all dressed up as Blade when we got Blade. Remember Blade? Oh yeah, dude. Everybody had sunglasses and a leather suit. If you go to a nightclub, the bouncer was Blade, the guy getting in was Blade. It was Blade IDing Blade. Everyone was f*ing — yeah, dude, leather sales skyrocketed. I reckon the leather industry in Italy was like, “Man, what’s happening in Estonia?” Blade was — this was me, this was all of Estonia for like 3 years.

Race, Racism, and the Echo Chamber

THEO VON: And do they have a lot of Black people in Estonia?

ARI MATTI: 3. Good. Yeah.

THEO VON: And how’s that been? I feel like if we interviewed them, what would they say to you? You think it’s been good?

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: Okay, I dig it, dude. So it’s been hit or miss.

ARI MATTI: It’s been hit or miss for sure. But I would say Estonians, Eastern Europeans, Northern Europeans — see, racism is embedded in you having a preconceived notion about a certain group of people. And I would say living in America, it probably gets validated in an echo chamber. If you grow up in a white neighborhood and it’s a racist neighborhood, you’re going to have this notion and then you’re going to grow up and understand, okay, that was just my childhood. In Estonia, if you don’t really have Black people around, the racism is kind of — it’s firing into darkness.

THEO VON: Yeah, I know exactly what you’re saying. I’ll be in Canada and I’ll see Black people in some Canadian places, and it doesn’t feel like there’s any of the tension and weird shit that there is in America. And I’m not saying that they’re — it feels so f*ing different. You’re like, “Oh, this is how things are supposed to be.” And they also keep repeating this same narrative in America. It’s like we should be able to, I think, at some point start to move past some of this stuff. It’s like, what are we still doing?

ARI MATTI: I know. Yeah, exactly.

THEO VON: You know what I’m saying? If I’m still chewing a piece of gum from f*ing 150 years ago, and there’s a taste in my mouth after a while, it’s because at a certain point you gotta — somebody let that gum go. Just get, take part of it out of your mouth, or give it a little bit of a rest sometimes.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: But there’s some people that just want to chew some of the same gum. And maybe that’s messed up for me to say, but it blew my mind when I was in Canada and I was like, “Oh, there’s not this racial tension here at all.”

ARI MATTI: Yeah, and absolutely there’s people who — racism due to ignorance is one thing.

THEO VON: I’m not saying that doesn’t exist, but —

ARI MATTI: And it’s like, Estonians, we drop N-bombs, but it doesn’t have the history you have here. We don’t even say Black people, we just drop the word. But you guys have — we don’t have the word you have, right? We say like negro, which you guys say too, and it’s not a good word.

THEO VON: Right. Well, especially being from the South, some of it is like — yeah, there’s such a history with it. Certain terms here that you don’t want — it’s not cool.

ARI MATTI: Exactly. But there’s none of that weight attached to that word. So if a white guy will be drunk and yell it at a Black guy, it’s just because he’s a fing baboon brain. But there’s no deep conceived fing hatred behind it, right?

THEO VON: But if a white guy gets drunk and yells at a Black guy, that’s f*ing kind of racist.

ARI MATTI: No, it’s racist. The action is racist for sure. But what I’m trying to say is he makes it out of ignorance. It’s not — there’s no like, right, you know?

THEO VON: But yeah, I think our media over time kind of perpetuates it, or wants to keep that flame burning, because it also keeps a lot of f*ing anger in certain communities.

ARI MATTI: Unity has zero dollars in it. Division has the bank.

THEO VON: Amen.

ARI MATTI: There’s no reason for people to get along. There’s no money in us having an open conversation and being happy with our lives. There’s no money in that.

THEO VON: Think about that.

ARI MATTI: I f*ing hate your ass and I need to be better than you, and you want to be better than me. That shit creates revenue. There’s no revenue in peace.

Travel, Adventure, and Seeing the World

THEO VON: It’s interesting. It’s sad. It’s a lot. I’d love to talk more. We both have to go to the airport.

ARI MATTI: We have to go to the airport.

THEO VON: So people know that.

ARI MATTI: Are you excited to travel, to see places like Estonia or not?

THEO VON: Oh, dude. Yes.

ARI MATTI: What would you think about that?

THEO VON: Oh, I would love to go there, man. I love to travel so much. And then I got into podcasting and it’s a lot. Also work started going really good and that’s a lot. So it’s all been gifts, I know. But yeah, in the next year or two, I wouldn’t mind maybe falling in love or something and going traveling, or just going and traveling. It’d be nice to have somebody to do things with.

My mom wanted to go to Italy. I think I might try to take her there, so I have to bring it up to her and see if she wants to go do that. But dude, yeah, I want to go see some more places. I’ve been fortunate to see some places, but I would love to get to go see some more.

Like, that Semester at Sea trip was like the first time I ever — I remember we docked in South Africa. And dude, it would be crazy, bro. Because I didn’t know anybody on this ship. I remember everybody’s families were there waving poster board and shit. And I just started waving at strangers, grandmothers and shit, because I don’t even know if I told my family that I was going. So this ship is leaving port and I’m just like, “Where are we going?” And we sailed for like 14 days and then we get to Japan. So we went from Vancouver to Japan, and that was crazy.

And even when I got into Vancouver, I’d never been there. I went hitchhiking to go up to Whistler. Some dude picked me up. This dude, his name was Mike, Michael something. He was the caretaker for Christopher Reeves, who was Superman.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: After Chris Reeves got hurt, he was his caretaker. So I got to ride and listen to all these crazy stories about what it was like taking care of Superman, which was just f*ing crazy. And shit like that — that was before they had cell phones. Things were so much more possible and unique, and everything felt like an adventure then.

But that whole ship experience was really great, and we got to go to different places. I remember we got to South Africa and I got off and I was like, “Oh my God, there’s other people living in different places.” It’s hard to conceptualize things until you go places for sure.

ARI MATTI: And I would say, as much as I’ve met Americans throughout my life and now living here, there’s something about Americans — it gets put into a lot of your heads that everywhere else is really dangerous and not good. Like, you’re not safe there. And I don’t know if it’s like capitalism and consumerism trying to put this thing like, “Stay put, stay here, spend money here, take a loan. This is America.” Of course, America number one. We love it. Patriotism is beautiful. Absolutely. But the rest of the world ain’t that bad.

THEO VON: No.

ARI MATTI: And it’s —

America, Free Speech, and the Algorithm

THEO VON: Oh, it’s getting better all the time now. I mean, I think America, especially with the leadership we have now, with the way that we’re like supporting crimes around the world, with a lot that’s been revealed, I love this country. I respect the people that have stood up and fought for it.

ARI MATTI: Absolutely.

THEO VON: Especially with our jobs, like freedom of speech. If there— if people didn’t die for that job, yeah, we don’t have a job here.

ARI MATTI: Absolutely.

THEO VON: We don’t even have a job market. And then there’s other bigger entities now that are trying to curtail that. And these big tech companies are trying to limit what you can say. I think America’s in a really, really interesting spot where we need patriots like more than ever. And I don’t know how we become those, and I don’t know also how we fight against the evil that’s going on.

ARI MATTI: And the algorithm listens more than the people.

THEO VON: Yeah, say that again.

ARI MATTI: The algorithm listens more than the people. So what you hear is often wise dictated. The algorithm makes a decision what you’re consuming. And that’s wild. That’s exactly the opposite of the internet, what it was created for. Because any opinion that the algorithm wants you to have, it will make you have it.

THEO VON: And here’s the thing.

ARI MATTI: It’s scary.

THEO VON: It’s very scary.

ARI MATTI: It’s not a human. I totally get it. We say an offensive word here and another person who’s maybe a revenue stream or a company that sponsors your podcast, maybe they don’t like the word that we use, the slur. And that’s a human making that decision. That’s a board meeting. It’s not my personal preference of a decision, but at least you can validate it to me, to a person.

An algorithm deciding, between you and a consumer, there’s an algorithm and that decides if that content gets to the consumer. That’s not free speech. That’s an orchestrated version of free speech. And that can even be more dangerous than just saying you can’t say it.

THEO VON: Yeah. I mean, and it’s fascinating. And a lot of people, we don’t even realize it’s going on.

ARI MATTI: Have you ever looked at another person’s feed? How different is it? How is that possible? Are we both living in this country having the same issues? How are me and you living in the same country paying taxes for the same government and you get a totally different news feed? Because the algorithm knows.

THEO VON: Yeah, this is what he needs, this is what he doesn’t need.

The Algorithm Knows You Better Than You Know Yourself

ARI MATTI: Isn’t it creepy that when you scroll— I spoke to a guy who’s a programmer, he’s from Sweden, and he told me they developed this back in the day. He used to work for Spotify. He’s a big programmer guy. He sells these patents. And he said that one of the biggest things they’ve done is, when you’re scrolling, if you like a post, that’s one thing. But you know what’s more valuable for the algorithm? When you scroll past, you stop, you don’t like it, and you keep scrolling. That’s more points for the algorithm because the algorithm understands, “Oh, this is something you don’t want to show other people you like, but you love this shit, don’t you?” So it knows you better than you, dude.

THEO VON: And it’s like temptation. And we don’t realize when those things come on that you have to fight against that, man. If you really want to have discernment, there’s never a better time when we realize that people are fighting for your attention, right? Because what you absorb is valuable, and then you believe it — that’s what’s going to influence your children. And it’s like, we are at a crucial time.

ARI MATTI: Attention is money and time. And there’s one thing you can’t get back is time. And if you can control what people spend their time on, aka their attention, you control a whole narrative of history now.

THEO VON: I mean, it’s basically communism.

ARI MATTI: It is for sure. I mean, it is. Yeah, absolutely. You’re controlling me. You’re making me feel emotions about a certain topic that wasn’t even entering my brain. It was a beautiful day and a nice flower. And now I see this thing on my feed. And now I’m upset about something that has nothing to do with me.

THEO VON: Yep. And now that I’m upset, I’ll resort to things that— these are things that sneak into people’s lives when— sorry, I don’t want to preach. These are things that sneak into my life when I’m angry. I’ll eat something I don’t want to eat because I’m just frustrated. I’ll act out, maybe try and hit up some girl that I’m not really interested in.

ARI MATTI: Shit.

THEO VON: Masturbate. Watch porno. Just different things. Once you’re agitated, they got you, because then you’re going to go buy some other addictive thing.

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: And it’s just like, oh yeah, everything negative has money in it.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. No one’s making money when they’re content. But America is, of course, beautiful.

THEO VON: Of course.

Why America Is the Home of Stand-Up Comedy

ARI MATTI: And it was founded on the fact of free speech and alternative thinking. That’s why stand-up is thriving here. And the reason I moved here is because I want to practice. I want to see how far the rabbit hole of my own mind on stage goes. And the only place to do that, basically, is America, because the level of comedians is so high here, because you have generations of free speech. And it’s beautiful, and it’s important to continue doing that.

THEO VON: And dude, you’ve done such— you like, yeah, I got to watch you. I think we did some shows there last month or something. It was really great, man. I mean, I love seeing your clips. Your shit is so funny.

ARI MATTI: You’re so funny too.

THEO VON: Thank you, bro, for just all the entertainment. I appreciate it.

An Iranian Friend on the Beach

ARI MATTI: And everywhere is beautiful in the world. Did my friend— you know what I stuck out recently? I met an old Iranian wrestler back in the day. I used to work in a nightclub in Melbourne. He was a bouncer. Iranian, they love wrestling. They’re so homophobic, but their history is—

THEO VON: The Iron Sheik, wasn’t he an Iranian wrestler?

ARI MATTI: Oh yeah, they love— and I mean, yeah, they love wrestling. This guy just randomly reached out to me on Messenger, was like, “Hey, I heard you on a podcast, glad to see you’re doing so well, you always used to be funny, I’m happy you found your lane.” And he’s in Iran.

So I go, “Yeah, thanks man, you good?” And he sends me a picture, he’s getting an Aperol Spritz with bitches on the beach, and he’s like, “No, I’m not where the war is at.” And those things always show me — everywhere in the world there’s a guy chilling somewhere, having a little cocktail or a fresh-squeezed orange juice, staring at us and trying to be happy in his own life. And whatever they tell— of course there’s war and atrocities, absolutely, that’s happening, that’s confirmed. But don’t forget, a lot of people are happy everywhere in the world.

THEO VON: Yeah, don’t forget to be alive. It’s easy to get stuck into the things that are negative. It’s easy to get stuck because I’m like, “Are you good, dog?”

ARI MATTI: And he’s like, “Oh, what are you saying?”

THEO VON: I’m chilling.

ARI MATTI: “I got my parents, I got these bitches,” and he’s showing me beautiful ladies on the beach.

THEO VON: “I just dropped my parents off somewhere at a museum. I’m f*ing great. I’m leaving them there for 4 hours. They think I’m coming to get them in 3.”

ARI MATTI: “There’s a great falafel truck here. It’s a beautiful day. What are you crying about?”

Road Rules, Podcasting, and Theo’s Journey

THEO VON: I’m great, man. What was that last thing we were going through? There was one kind of closing piece I wanted to have about it.

ARI MATTI: Wait, can I take a picture with my camera of you?

THEO VON: For sure. It’s just—

ARI MATTI: It’s going to be a funny picture. I just like this camera. Damn. Okay, sorry about that. It’s an old camera. And Theo, you’re so funny.

THEO VON: And it looks new, that camera.

ARI MATTI: No, it’s old as f*. And you’re so funny that it’s crazy that— I saw you as a kid on Real World. You know that?

THEO VON: Really? Road Rules.

ARI MATTI: Road Rules.

THEO VON: They had it in your country? MTV.

ARI MATTI: Wasn’t it MTV, right?

THEO VON: Yeah.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. And I remember when I met you, I was like, man, I know this guy as Theo Von the Comedian, but how the f*— it took me weeks to figure it out. And I used to watch all that shit.

THEO VON: Did you?

ARI MATTI: Funny. Yeah.

THEO VON: Wow. It’s funny that they had it over there.

ARI MATTI: Yeah. Dude, and it’s great that you have this incredible podcast. I mean, you’ve had the president on, and it’s great that you’re just expanding the common mainstream media by just being a dude who talks to people. It’s great.

THEO VON: Well, thanks, man. I appreciate that. I’ve had the president on. I’ve had Ari Matti on too, and it’s an honor. And the first Estonian that I know, so really cool. And yeah, I would love to be welcome in your country someday. I mean, I know I am welcome there, but I would love to go there sometime and visit your home country. And yeah, dude, we got to catch up a little bit more. Thank you for your time. Congrats on all your success. You have dates coming up. I know it says Comedy on State.

ARI MATTI: It’s arimatti.com. That’s all my dates. I keep adding them all the time. I’m on tour. Please come see me. Let’s have some fun. I love you guys so much.

The La Jolla Comedy Store

THEO VON: Matt, have you been to La Jolla Comedy Store?

ARI MATTI: Never.

THEO VON: That was my favorite.

ARI MATTI: I’m shooting a special there.

THEO VON: You are? Let’s go!

ARI MATTI: I’ve never— but I heard it was so beautiful.

THEO VON: It’s just perfect. It’s like there’s no bullshit in there. They got Louie running on the piano over there. If he’s in there, let him cook in the booth.

ARI MATTI: Let him cook.

THEO VON: He keeps just the energy in there. And they don’t play rap music. I mean, they play piano, right? Which I like because it sets the tone that what you’re going to see here, sure, it might be messed up, but it’s art, right?

ARI MATTI: It’s art.

THEO VON: Whereas if you just like bumping some Lil Wayne or something, which is still great, it just gives a different energy, right?

ARI MATTI: Yeah.

THEO VON: So I love that they do that there. And yeah, it’s just like, it’s a pure thing. There’s not like— they got popcorn and stuff. They’re not selling people fing crème brûlées or whatever, a little fing Legorama.

ARI MATTI: California people— you know who I really love? I love Floridians and I love California people. California people, they know exactly what I mean. I don’t mean LA. I mean California. San Diego, Orange County, all that shit. They’re fun people.

THEO VON: They’re the best, dude. That’s probably— oh, there’s no better place to be on stage. Oh, and the ocean’s right there, bro.

ARI MATTI: I’m a big ocean guy, and that’s what really— it hurts me in Austin to live. I love Austin, but I’m a big ocean guy.

THEO VON: You know what? If they could f*ing get a little bit of the ocean somehow. Rogan’s got money. Ask him.

ARI MATTI: Get us an ocean, Rogan.

THEO VON: Yeah, I bet he could do something. He could text somebody.

ARI MATTI: You got to text somebody.

THEO VON: Elon could get a strait of something to pull in there.

ARI MATTI: Every time the security line is too long at the airport, I always text Joe, I go, “Where’s the airport? Yeah, yeah, this is a mothership airport, dude.”

THEO VON: He could freaking buy Spirit Airlines. Somebody said he might do it.

ARI MATTI: Oh yeah, crazy, just for comics.

THEO VON: Yeah. Ari Matti, thanks so much, brother.

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