Transcript: Candace Owens’ Interview on The Tucker Carlson Show

And that’s what should be made clear to everybody. Like that’s not something that they ever say is not true when it comes down to the legality of it all, when they get into courtrooms.

But they first sued for invasion of privacy, then they sued for defamation regarding a statement, an error that the woman had made investigating when she said, “in my opinion, this document is fake.” But that document actually was real. It was a birth certificate relating to somebody in the story. And so it was remarkably petty. And this is what they do. They get very legalistic. “We’ll keep you in the courtroom, we’ll harass you.”

And for Xavier, things were happening where they made, they wanted him to know they were following him and that the Secret Service was keeping an eye on him. They never actually brought a suit against him until recently, the same time as mine. They’re not suing him for defamation, even though he’s the author of the book that I based my entire series on. They are instead suing him for cyberbullying.

TUCKER CARLSON: Cyberbullying a head of state.

CANDACE OWENS: You can do that.

French Intelligence Services

TUCKER CARLSON: I should just say, because it’s true that the French intelligence services, everyone makes fun of France as incompetent and weak, but their intel services are not incompetent or weak. And after probably CIA, Mossad, maybe the Russian intel services, like they are feared.

CANDACE OWENS: And they should be feared.

TUCKER CARLSON: They are feared. They are very competent, they’re violent, documented, they’ve killed people and they’re nothing to play with, really.

CANDACE OWENS: Right. That’s why he picked up his family and he moved.

TUCKER CARLSON: I get it.

The Story’s Origins

CANDACE OWENS: And so it was this tremendous act of bravery that he did this, putting not just his life on the line with the life of his wife and his children. Because the story here was so demented and so twisted and just also the broader consideration that you could have an entire state colluding to protect a secret of that magnitude.

And what’s so compelling about this story, and I get into this in the first episode of “Becoming Brigitte,” is that by the time it made its way to the English speaking world, people thought that this was like a far right conspiracy dug up from the trenches of Reddit. And that’s not what happened at all. The story begins with Emmanuel Macron and his wife is actually the journalists, the left leaning journalists, the Conde Nast journalists who wanted to celebrate Brigitte.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: Wanted to do documentaries on Brigitte. “This wonderful woman is now empowered, and what is she going to do?” And they were kind of getting threatened. They were told to come to the Elysee palace, and there was only one person that they could talk to. They couldn’t find or verify anything about Brigitte’s history or Brigitte’s past. And they sort of fell down the hole and were like, “I don’t know why I suddenly feel like I’ve done something wrong for asking basic questions about the first lady of France.” And so that’s kind of where the series begins. And it kind of takes you through what they went through and what many people have gone through since, just trying to learn anything about the first lady.

The American Reaction

TUCKER CARLSON: So to be clear, it’s an amazing story, and for so many reasons, but for the one that you just described, that this was actually well known in France. It all took place in public. But I don’t think one in a million Americans had any idea at all until your series came out. And the initial reaction to your series was, “well, that now we know Candace is insane. Really going off the deep end. The wife’s a man. Come on now.”

And then as the series progressed and became one of the biggest podcast series in the country, and sort of sober, people were saying, “actually, you should listen to this. This is pretty wild, pretty compelling.” But I just want to get to the lawsuit. So, like, they’re suing. They’re not. They’re suing you for defamation for things…

The Lawsuit Strategy

CANDACE OWENS: That I never said, which is they know that this lawsuit, this is why I called it a PR strategy. This lawsuit was filed for the press. Right. Because she just lost her defamation case against two journalists in France. And now everyone was reporting. “Wait, you said that this was the big case that proved or you presented it as if you were suing them on this claim of you being a man or a woman. And now you’ve lost that in France. This is your home territory. What’s going on?”

And so I think she called the lawyers and were like, “just file a lawsuit,” because it’s very sloppy. The points run into one another. Like, first they argue that I’m doing it for money, then they make the argument that I was fired for talking, speaking about it. So that doesn’t make any sense. It can’t be both. And it’s a bunch of stuff that I didn’t say. They’re behaving like mainstream journalists where they’ll take a couple of words that I said, like “gangster, criminal, and gangster.” But then they add their own sentence to it, and they’re like, “she accused her of being a criminal and a gangster.” So it’s very sloppy.

And what they’re doing is they’re just biting their time. They don’t want the world to look, which, this was a very bad mistake, a very bad way to go about it, but they want the world to believe that she has a claim against me, that what we’re suing, therefore, because this podcaster lied. But it’s way too late. I mean, truly, everyone is aware of what’s happened. This only made the series go viral. Now it’s going viral in Asia. I’m getting all of these emails from people in China saying this series is going viral. They’re not even on YouTube, so I don’t know how they’re watching it in China, but it was a mistake because obviously now people are going, “okay, something must be true.”

A president of a foreign country does not sue a mom that does her podcast in her basement because she spoke something that was not true. Like, there is clearly something that they want hidden. And so everyone’s taking a closer look at the series.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, that’s not the way to hide things.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: The way to hide things is say, “poor Candace. Nice woman, obviously mentally ill. Come on, now.” That’s the way to do it. And sophisticated liars do that.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: So it is interesting. They are responding in a way that clearly is driven by emotion.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

The Legal Strategy Behind the Silence

TUCKER CARLSON: Fear. I mean, that’s my read. I don’t really know why they’re responding, of course, but looking at it is. It’s so interesting.

CANDACE OWENS: And there is something also that the way that they’re going about this, going after the journalists, thinking that America is the same sort of a beast as France is. And that while we have said that you can’t ask us any questions, we’ll sue you for cyber bullying. There is something about it where once you really arrive at a truth, what I find the reaction is for the people that are incensed by the fact that you’re presenting that truth is “I’ll impoverish you.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: And I’ve seen this over and over again. It’s like, okay, she told the truth, but our response to that is going to be demands that she get fired. Right. She should lose her livelihood for speaking the truth. She should lose. And that’s why Jake Tapper, I don’t know if you’ve seen it, you probably haven’t because it’s Jake Tapper. But he sits down with Tom Clare who is a lawyer on this case.

And Jake Tapper is doing the absolute most to make this just the easiest interview for Tom Clare. He’s sitting across from him and he’s like, “she’s deranged and she’s crazy and she’s a conspiracy theorist.” So much so that people in the comments were like, “now I want to watch a series.” His own viewers thought this was just so over the top.

But then he turns Tom Clare and asks him like a basic question. He’s like, “you know, what evidence did you present to her that Brigitte’s a man?” And Tom Clare can’t answer the question. He’s like, “we, you know, we. There was, you can read the claims. It’s we. It’s extensive. And you know, we told her that she was a woman.” They never presented any evidence.

We went to them before we published the series. We were in touch with Tom Clare, Claire and Locke. We sent them a list of questions. We said, “look, we won’t even do this series if you answer these basic circle yes or no questions. Was Brigitte Macron, the first lady, born a woman?” I mean, that basic of questions. “Did she ever live as a person named Veronique before the transition temporarily, Brigitte lived as a person named Veronique.” They refused to answer these yes or no questions.

Obviously, if you’re going to prove actual malice, you have to present to the court, which is obviously a very high bar that’s been set, which I don’t necessarily even agree with that bar, by the way. New York Times versus Sullivan set. But obviously you have to prove that I acted. I knew the truth and I acted.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s exactly right.

CANDACE OWENS: I was desperate to get to the truth and said I would stop doing this series. We also offered for me to get on a plane and fly to France to interview to get Brigitte’s side of this. You know, I want to make sure I’m not colored by having read “Becoming Brigitte” and reading the series. There could be another side. And it was essentially a big “F you.” And said, Tom Clare comes back, “she doesn’t have to answer your question. She doesn’t have to prove to you.”

The Intimidation Campaign

TUCKER CARLSON: So they retained Tom Clare and Libby Locke then, or Tom Clare. So Tom Clare and Libby Locke are married, second marriage for him. But I know them and they have a law firm, I believe, in suburban D.C. and Virginia that specializes in making people shut up through intimidation. They tried it with me and in a really brutal, cruel way, I would say to try and just scare you into shutting up.

So that itself, I don’t think anyone regards Tom Clare as a good lawyer at all. But certainly, you know, his behavior is designed to intimidate you. So the fact that they hired them at the outset, that’s the behavior of someone who just like wants to scare you into shutting up.

CANDACE OWENS: And the timing of when they first sent us a letter was actually December of last year. Sorry, the end of November of last year. We missed the letter because they sent it to inbox that we would have never been checking. It was very weird inbox, like where you would go to return a T-shirt. And because we missed that. And I’m glad I missed it because I probably would have been scared.

I think they knew because that was right when I began speaking with Xavier Poussard and I was in London at the time and I had agreed to interview him but nobody knew I was going to do this interview. So what made them suddenly send this intimidating letter?

TUCKER CARLSON: And Tom Clare sent it.

CANDACE OWENS: Tom Clare sent it.

TUCKER CARLSON: They’d already retained him.

CANDACE OWENS: They had retained him and he sent a letter. And I think that they were monitoring Xavier Poussard. I think they were monitoring either his communications or monitoring him. Why would they have known that he was flying to London to sit down to an interview with me? And they sent it just a week before I sat down with him.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, keep in mind, the subject of your story controls some of the most competent intel services in the world, correct?

CANDACE OWENS: Correct.

TUCKER CARLSON: As a head of state, there are no rules at all. Which is enough to make you a little uncomfortable if you think about it.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: And the fact that they would hire those two lawyers. By the way, his wife, Libby Locke, is Bill Ackman’s lawyer, who Ackman uses to make people shut up by sending hysterical letters, screechy letters, threatening to destroy you if you keep talking about the client. I mean, it’s really thuggish.

Let’s just go through. But can we just go through, like, chronologically how this unfolded? So at the core of the story is the allegation that Brigitte Macron is not who she says she is. And that would include her sex is not what she says.

The Core Allegations

CANDACE OWENS: It is correct that she was born a man named Jean Michel Trognell. And I’m aware if you have not watched the series. That sounds crazy, because that was me when I first saw the headline.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. No, no. I mean, I was alerted to it.

CANDACE OWENS: By the Daily Mail. I thought it was such a crazy, insane headline, but it was. The Daily Mail had done this. Had published an article saying that with a video of Emmanuel Macron denying claims his wife was a man. And I just thought, “that’s really funny. Like, what could possibly be going on in France that the president has to deny a claim that his wife’s a man?”

But something that caught my eye was just as I was reading this article, they made no effort to debunk it. Like, it was sort of like it was that typical CNN, New York Times. “It’s so crazy.” It’s like, okay, but if it’s so crazy, just, you know, post some photos of her. Obviously, she’s got three kids. It’s going to be tons of photos of her raising her children. There’s nothing. They had one solitary photo.

And when you look at the photo, it was very obvious, and this is before I got into the details, that she looks a lot more like the little boy that’s on the left than she does. Who they were trying to purport was the little girl that was sitting on the family member’s lap.

And so I got into it kind of very organically. I was like, “this is weird, like, what’s going on in France, that the President has to make a comment on the situation.” And then I found a website where it explained it, and I instantly realized there is something here. Like, you just. You don’t have any photos of yourself for 30 years of your life.

And the two photos that you’ve given have been given to the public from a woman who has quite literally been charged with forging documents. She’s. I mean, she’s a thug. I mean, Mimi Marshawn, they had to eventually get rid of her. Forging documents, thuggery, things of that nature, of a criminal nature. She’s the only one. Everyone’s going to go through her to get any information about your past.

This is so strange. I mean, it’s so kooky that you wouldn’t just. The defense to this is just, “hey, could you show us any pictures of your living for these 30 years? You know, you had allegedly three children. Do you guys take any photos while you were raising them? Maybe when you were in the hospital?” No, no, no, no, Tucker, there’s nothing there.

The Opportunity to Respond

TUCKER CARLSON: So it’s an amazing allegation, a stunning allegation, a bewildering allegation. But I think the legal and the moral question is, did you give an opportunity, did you give the Prime Minister and his wife an opportunity, the Macrons, the opportunity to respond to the allegation before the series ran? So that’s my question.

CANDACE OWENS: Weeks to respond.

TUCKER CARLSON: What way did you do that? Did you call them? Did you.

CANDACE OWENS: Via Tom Clare was their lawyer. So it was. It actually, they kind of made a mistake. They messaged us first to kind of intimidate us and say, you know, they say how.

TUCKER CARLSON: They knew you’re working on it.

CANDACE OWENS: I don’t, I am not clear. Because what was interesting is they, in that first letter, they included claims of what I said while I was working up a daily wire. That was the previous March. So you’re responding to something that I said in March. We’re now in December. So what triggered you? Like, and clearly it had to have been that I had just interviewed Xavier Poussard and they were aware of it.

So then they said, “okay, send her out a letter to intimidate her.” And obviously getting a letter. For most people you get a letter from a sitting president of France, you’re going to go, “okay, well I’m just going to be quiet and not say anything more because I don’t want to get involved in this.” But for me, it just made me even more curious.

And so to be sure, I said, “well, I’m glad we have a line of communication established because I’m certainly not interested in defaming you. I’m not interested in lying. Obviously, I would do myself a disservice if all of this was complete crap and it turned out that I had been peddling it. So here are my questions. Very simple yes or no questions. Did you ever live as Veronique, who is Jean Michel Trog?” No, refused to answer. They just instantly got so.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you presented the allegations, them, which they of course were aware of, that people had made others, not you, that she’s not really who she says she is. And you said, can you explain?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, and honestly didn’t require much of an explanation. We also asked, “can you give us any photos of you living through this 30 year period?” I mean, pretty easy stuff. If you’re actually concerned and you’re going to pretend you’re so traumatized and defamed because of this story. I would have been like, “yeah, of course. Here I am. Here’s me in middle school. Here’s me, I’m a cheerleading team. Here’s me the first day I held my first son. Here’s me.”

It’s such an easy thing to debunk that it requires the suspension of common sense to believe that this is a conspiracy theory. Because it’s just, it’s so easy to debunk and yet they refuse to do it. And they’re being extremely petty and going after every single person that speaks about it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Now, have they ever provided that, that evidence to anybody?

CANDACE OWENS: No, that’s the point.

TUCKER CARLSON: They haven’t to this day.

The Macron Investigation Continues

CANDACE OWENS: They would have never had to sue anybody because everyone would have then laughed at them. If someone was working on a story saying that I lived as a man for 30 years, I don’t need to lawyer up. I want you to publish that story so that I can then come out and say, “This person is a psychopath.” Clearly, here is the trove of me growing up with my sisters, here’s my middle school yearbook.

I to the contrary, even when Xavier Pussard, because he has been worked on this for 10 years and therefore filing paperwork with the government to get pictures. Jean Michel Trogno has a military file. He also filed to get Brigitte’s school yearbook where she allegedly has a picture. And he won that case and then took it to Sacré Cœur, which is Sacred Heart. And they said, “We’re not releasing it. I don’t care if you won the case. We’re refusing to release this to you.”

So in every regard, something that would be able to dispel this rumor, even her children. Where are your kids in this? If that’s my mom and she’s so attacked and it’s so horrifying that she’s got to put my dad, stepdad on a plane to go speak to the president, United States. Way before then, I would have released pictures of me and my mom. Her kids are all adults. I would have said, “Here’s me and my mom growing up on my first birthday, my second birthday. Please, everyone, leave her alone.” They won’t do it. It’s just bonkers.

TUCKER CARLSON: Have the kids spoken in public?

CANDACE OWENS: Only one child has ever spoken and called the rumors crazy and upsetting and that’s her youngest daughter, Tiphaine. And I have a theory about why that is. But again, there’s no evidence since you supplied Stéphane won’t go under oath to phone, won’t speak. Tiphaine won’t say, “Oh no, this is.” She just says it’s very hurtful and it’s not true. And okay, Tiphaine, will you have the power to dispel this by just releasing some photos of you growing up? You’re a 40 year old lawyer. It’s been pretty simple to release some photos of you as a kid with your mom. And they won’t do it.

The Legal Strategy Behind the Lawsuit

TUCKER CARLSON: So it sounds like from what you’ve said, you don’t believe this case was even designed to go forward. They’re not planning on a courtroom showdown here.

CANDACE OWENS: And there’s no way. By the way, I engaged with Libby Locke and Tom Clare a long time ago about defamation, and they told me not to go after it because the bar was so high. And I had a very clear case where someone told a blatant lie about me, which we would have countered right away.

TUCKER CARLSON: Dealt with them before.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Oh, I have emails from them. This is the funny part. I have emails from them. “I love you, adore you, watch your show.”

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re totally soulless, both of them.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, clearly.

The motive here is money, which is fine, if that’s what you want your legacy to be. Because at the core of this case, which most people should be speaking about, is their defense. Here is, I am admitting, which they’ve never done before, they’ve now admitting that Emmanuel Macron was only 14 when they met, when he was in that play. Fifteen, she says whenever this affair happened.

And in my suit, they admit that Emmanuel Macron’s parents took him away from the school because of this relationship. Do you understand the audacity of “I’m a creep. I macked on a student at best.” And I have the audacity to file this lawsuit. I mean, what is going on in France that you would so willfully put that in a lawsuit? Which, by the way, debunks their earlier claims. When he was first running, the press said he was 17. Then when Xavier Pussard proved that it wasn’t true, then suddenly they were saying he was 16. Now we’ve got them writing that he was 15. But the truth is, is that Emmanuel Macron was 14. And they can’t go back on that truth because she has.

TUCKER CARLSON: Isn’t that child molestation?

The Disturbing Details of the Macron Relationship

CANDACE OWENS: There we go. That’s another big thing happening here. She’s desperate now to keep it at 15, but she wants to keep it at 15. No, he was 14, when he was in that play that she says that she watched him. And as 14 year old boys, I guess as a 40 year old woman, you would just be so swept away by a 14 year old child on stage.

He was in this play, I’m forgetting the name of, it’s a French name, Milan Kundera’s play. And that’s when she alleges that she saw him and he just was ahead of his time, a savant so brilliant in his demonstration, his ability to act that. And he’s a child. He’s a child. And this is a very creepy, sadistic story.

And the more that you learn how much the press lied about that earlier story, I mean, even the press in the beginning, when he was running even said that Brigitte Macron was this like irresistibly hot teacher. Like they kept comparing her to Claudia Schiffer. And then when Xavier and these journalists got documents and pictorial evidence of what Brigitte looked like at that time. She looked like a man in the middle of a transition.

And so even that, I mean, the way the press lied to sell this creepy relationship is something that should concern everyone. Whether you believe she’s a man or not, what you have is a couple that is willfully getting away with at best, like molestation, sexual perversion. He runs deviants and he runs the country.

TUCKER CARLSON: Not some random guy.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: And that’s not in dispute.

CANDACE OWENS: No, that’s not in dispute because they tried to at first say that he was 17. Now she’s saying 15. The truth is Emmanuel Macron was 14.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ll just go with 15 and say that’s wrong.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, right. Do we even need to.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I mean, 15, I mean, that’s a whole different thing.

The Circle of Corruption

CANDACE OWENS: And that was the comments under Jake Tapper’s interview with Tom Claire. People, and this is the left, this is his show, were outraged. They were going, “How could you defend this?” I asked the question to Tom Claire on my show as I unpacked all of the child molestation that surrounds them. It’s an entire orbit of people who have been found guilty and have openly admitted to molesting their children. These are their friends. That’s why she’s angry, because I’m like, and it’s not just them, it’s this guy, this guy, this guy, he funded the campaign, then had to come out and say, “Yes, I molested my stepson.” And the stepdaughter wrote a book about it. A person admitted to that.

TUCKER CARLSON: And these are friends of the Macrons.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, they’re a current lawyer. Who was the finance minister? Brigitte handpicked him to be the finance minister of France. His name is Eric Dupond-Moretti. This was my episode two days ago, of course, because everyone in their orbit just, I don’t know, has an interesting pedophilia story.

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you have any friends who are pedophiles?

CANDACE OWENS: None. It’s amazing. They just can’t stop finding friends that are somehow involved in these crazy pedophilia scandals. And Eric Dupond-Moretti made a name for himself as the lawyer that comes in on behalf of the offending. In this case, it’s almost always incest, by the way, in all the cases that he involves himself in.

And he convinces the court, as he did in one certain case called the Manachet affairs, that, “Okay, yeah, it is incest. Yeah, he’s been raping his daughter. But,” and this is what he’s famous for, “it’s happy incest.” And he sold to a court and got this guy sentence reduced. He had been raping two of his daughters. I’m not kidding. You can look this up on Wikipedia, no less.

And he sold this to the court, coined the phrase along with another person who, another lawyer who Emmanuel awarded the Medal of Freedom to. And they said to the court in Amiens, which is where Brigitte and Emmanuel are both born, that you should release this guy because he loves his daughter. And now she’s 21, and so it doesn’t really matter. And honestly, it’s the mom’s fault.

TUCKER CARLSON: He.

CANDACE OWENS: They encouraged them to all sleep together, and so they did. They released him early. And then his daughter tried to escape him and he killed her. So this is who everyone, this is the guy who’s on the news channels right now saying, “We’re going to go after Candace Owens because this is a state affair.” And he’s got this whole glorious story about how I’m being funded by Russia, because it’s always Russia, as we all know.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s got to be Russia funded by Russia.

CANDACE OWENS: His theory was this feels like the.

The Depraved Elite

TUCKER CARLSON: The kind of end stage of something. I hate the phrase global elite because it sounds so spooky or whatever, but that’s what it is.

CANDACE OWENS: The depraved. I don’t even call them the elite. They’re the depraved. And they’ve just been running the game for so long that they’re not even getting creative anymore.

TUCKER CARLSON: There’s always a part of town with depraved people. Like, they’re, you know, every society has the depraved. The depraved community. But has there been, since Rome, really, a whole class of depraved people with this much power? That’s what gets.

CANDACE OWENS: I think so, yeah. The more that I study and the more that I take a look at this picture. Because at first, you know, you go through this period where you’re going, “Am I crazy, or are they all defending, like, children being raped?” Like, this can’t be. This can’t be right. Like, somebody’s going to stand up and say something. And the only thing that you can do in those moments where you’re questioning whether or not this could be the circumstance is to educate yourself further.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

The Freud Connection

CANDACE OWENS: And I find that whatever area they have sort of an inordinate response to where they’re getting very angry about something that seems so simple, is probably where you should press your thumb the hardest. And I did this with Sigmund Freud. I kind of said something on my show about how Sigmund Freud was like a pervert and getting into children and incest. His whole theory, blaming the children for their parents being incestuous.

And the reaction across the press, like, “How dare she?” I’m like, he’s dead. Why are you defending this guy? Not American did present a theory that these children who were being raped by their fathers were actually attracted to them. Why are you defending this? And then I got educated about it and started reading books and stunned. Yes, this is actually something that he was doing.

And I learned this from the person who controlled the Sigmund Freud archives, who wrote this amazing book called “The Assault on Truth.” But is there is this common thread that it brings you back to Paris every time, whether you’re talking about Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell talking about Emmanuel Macron, and Brigitte talking about Sigmund Freud, he studied and then came up with this theory while he was studying under Charcot in Paris, that actually, even though we see all this evidence that these kids are being raped, it is their fault because they’re attracted to their fathers.

And for this guy who rang the alarm on this years later, he was working with Anna Freud and he was in control of the archives. His name is Jeffrey Masson. He got kicked out of the archives for telling the truth.

TUCKER CARLSON: Very, very famous case.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, yeah, he got kicked out, but he wrote the book. Still because he still had the letters. He published the letters to prove that Sigmund Freud knew for a fact these kids were being raped.

TUCKER CARLSON: And boy, was he attacked for that too.

The Spiritual Nature of Evil

CANDACE OWENS: But here’s what’s interesting about that. He publishes that book, “The Assault on Truth.” And Anna allowed him to. She could have stopped the book. And Anna Freud chose not to stop the book. I think she wanted the secret to be out.

But you go through these stories and over and over again you get this theme of this very dark theme of children that are being raped, right? And it’s incestuous, like I said, while they’re talking about Jeffrey Epstein, like, why do we keep coming back to this theme? And why does it seem that the media is colluding to cover that up?

Like I thought, no matter where we were on the spectrum, left or right, like when it came to children, whether it’s murder, rape, like we all were on the same page that, like, we have to defend innocent lives. And so then you have to press further and go, what is the theology here? Because everything, as my husband has taught me, is a theology. They’re being guided by a theology.

And while the rest of the world is being driven towards either being agnostic or being outwardly atheistic, I think the people that are in control are being pulled by—

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, they’re not atheists.

CANDACE OWENS: They’re not atheists at all.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I couldn’t agree more. It’s interesting. One of my children, one of my smarter children said to me today, actually said, “Child molestation is the only crime with no justification.” And I never thought of it that way.

And it’s like murder, of course, you know, murder’s wrong. Of course there’s plenty of circumstances where I can imagine committing murder and going to hell for it. But I mean, I can imagine, you know, getting so mad that I shoot somebody or you know what I mean, stealing, lying.

But it’s not possible to imagine a justification for molesting a child, for being sexual with a child. And it’s also not possible to imagine for all the sins that I can imagine committing in a certain circumstance. Like, that’s just, I can’t even get my head around it. That’s just not appealing in any way. Like you’d never even think of wanting to do that. So it’s got to be spiritual.

The Freudian Cover-Up

CANDACE OWENS: It is spiritual for them. And that’s why studying Sigmund Freud and I realized why they were so triggered when I kind of, I’m always the person like accidentally lands on something and then there’s just like this reaction and like, “You can’t do that.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Ah.

CANDACE OWENS: And then I go, “Okay, well, I better learn about that because there’s something you don’t want me to know.” And so now I’m curious. If they would just leave me alone, I promise that I wouldn’t even have come down this path.

But what you learn about Sigmund Freud, is that what he actually mainstreamed? I mean, the psychoanalytic movement was quite literally a movement to mainstream gaslighting. And this is no question, like I said, you can read Sigmund Freud’s archives.

This guy was not a guy theorizing this, that this is what was going on. He had access, learned German, read the archives, alerted Anna Freud and was like, “Hey, did you know your dad knew that these kids were being raped and yet he lied to the public?” And she’s like, “Yeah, I think, you know, maybe don’t publish that.” But then she let him publish it. And I think that was a cry for help. But that’s my theory anyways.

The second book to read. Because once you get to that and you go, “What is this guiding theology? Why did Sigmund Freud at first acknowledge, as he did openly that all these kids were being raped?” Because he was at the morgue. Some of these kids were dying because of their injuries. And he was at the morgue in Paris. He saw this up front. There was no dispute. The literature has been published. He’s studying under Charcot.

And then he does this pivot suddenly when he turns 35 and he says, “Never mind. These kids are not, these kids are not being abused. They’re attracted to their fathers.”

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re the sexual provocateurs.

The Kabbalistic Connection

CANDACE OWENS: David Bakan published a book and he relates it to. And he makes a very sound argument and then proves his theory that it’s called “Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition.” And he relates to the Kabbalah, this sort of gnostic idea that you have to descend into hell and then you’ll be brought up and like, the worst thing that you could possibly do, the worst sin they believe in, this idea of holy sin, is to harm a child.

Now again, these people that I’m citing just because I know that you start talking about Sigmund Freud and “anti-Semitism.” These people who wrote these books are both Jewish. Jeffrey Masson is Jewish. He’s Ashkenazi Jew. David Bakan is an Ashkenazi Jew. These people are professors and, you know, they have their credentials here to make these conclusions.

And what he theorizes in this book is that Sigmund Freud was mainstreaming the Kabbalah through psychoanalytics. And the reason why he waited until he was 35, as he explains, is that in the Kabbalah tradition, they don’t. They think it’s so powerful, whatever the Kabbalah is, and I’m not educated on the Kabbalah, I will admit that, but whatever it is, they don’t tell their kids about it until they turn 35.

And when Sigmund Freud was 35, he received a Hebrew Bible from his father. And it’s like, I guess they believe in numerology, whatever it is. And he was suddenly awakened to whatever aspect of the Kabbalah that it was.

After David Bakan published the book, a rabbi came to him. He got in touch with a rabbi and spoke to this rabbi who told him that, yes, Sigmund Freud was a Kabbalist because he knew him personally and he had a Zohar in his apartment or in his place. And he then verified that his theory as reading through his papers was correct and that he was a Kabbalist.

And so I think it’s important for people, as I started a book club, to read these books, like, don’t take it from me. And I always say, yeah, we need to stop falling for this credentialism. You shouldn’t listen to me because I’m Candace Owens. I have a podcast. I want you to read these same books and to recognize that something very wrong is happening in this world.

And when we point to these facts, we’re all being gaslit. Like, we’re suddenly being told that having a response as just one example to right now to, like, kids dying in Gaza makes us monsters. Well, Sigmund Freud is the person that introduced the idea of sort of this, that gaslighting could be an effective strategy.

The Art of Gaslighting

TUCKER CARLSON: And gaslighting, as I understand it, is the process of inverting blame. So I punch you in the face and attack you for assaulting me. “How dare you hit me.” Right, so.

CANDACE OWENS: And it feels like we’re constantly being gaslit.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, it does. It does feel like there’s an awful lot of blame shifting. I see it in a very different context, but it’s on economics. It’s like, you know, the working class. The United States has been like, completely under assault. It’s not accidental. They were kind of targeted for extinction and treated with maximum contempt.

And then they’re like, blamed for their medieval attitudes. They’re all racist or whatever. It’s like, no, actually I think they’re the ones who aren’t winning. They seem to be losing out in a deal that is making a lot of other people rich. Why are we attacking them?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, then you get called a racist, right? You get called a racist for noticing that. And these people who are like, “I just want to be able to feed my families and go to work and feel good about that” has nothing to do with race.

TUCKER CARLSON: Like, how did race become part of this? It’s like, what?

The Freud-Bernays Dynasty

CANDACE OWENS: But that’s an element of that. And one of the things to recognize about Freud is that so the Freud family creates a psychoanalytic movement. Sigmund Freud does. And they’re gaslighting people. But then that turns into modern propaganda because that, it’s the Freud Bernays family. It’s the same family.

Edward Bernays is the person that created propaganda during World War II. The OSS, like, they were using him to figure out “How can we mainstream, like, how can we convince an entire population to want to go to war, you know, to hate Germans.” This is the guy that they brought in.

So it’s the same like the psychoanalytic movement then turns into propaganda with Edward Bernays and then turns into PR. Like, the biggest PR person in the world right now is still the Freud family. The Freud family are the PR for the royals. His name is Matthew Freud. So you can draw a direct line in understanding that this Matthew Freud was—

TUCKER CARLSON: Married to Rupert Murdoch’s daughter.

CANDACE OWENS: That is true. That is correct. And so it’s very interesting to—

TUCKER CARLSON: Just noting.

The State of Mind Control

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, and it’s important for people to recognize this though. These people have had a tremendous head start, okay? They know how the mind works. They have run these experiments on people. They have had this relationship with the state forever. In fact, I think they are the state, if I’m being honest. They are the state. I should even say it’s a relationship with the state.

And what they are constantly trying to do is to infect your mind. Okay? So picture you being that, you know, child who lived through this horrific experience and now you have an adult sitting before you and saying that never happened and you’re crazy and “What’s wrong with you is that you’re like attracted to your dad.”

That’s what they’re doing to all of us in a, in a certain way, obviously way more devastating when it happens to a child in, in that regard, in that sinister regard. But when you see the mainstream media apparatus today and they’re gaslighting us like the case of Brigitte Macron is the most gaslighting I’ve ever seen in my life, where it’s just like, you could debunk this in one second, but you won’t.

And you’re calling us deranged and you’re calling us crazy and you’re calling us anti-Semitic for caring about a dead Palestinian kid. And you’re. It’s like, like this is. Yeah, they created this system and the only way that we’re going to be able to defeat it is we have to first, we have to first understand it.

And that’s why I really encourage people to get educated. And I just made it my point because I constantly kept getting this claim, like “anti-Semitic” talk about Sigmund Freud, that I was like, “You know what I’m going to do? I’m only going to read Israeli historians and I’m only going to read Jewish books, books that are written by Jewish authors so that we can just go ahead and dispel the rumor.”

The Protected Status of Freud

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve never heard that. It’s interesting. Sigmund Freud has gone in and out of style. Well, he was very in style when I was young.

CANDACE OWENS: And then for me, he was very in style.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. And then he was really knocked off the pedestal by feminists, as I recall, because he had like some non fashionable views on women and calling them hysterical, etc. But I don’t recall Sigmund Freud being like a protected figure. Since when is criticizing him a hate crime?

CANDACE OWENS: That’s what was so weird to me. I did one episode on the Daily—

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t think he was a religious guy, at least—

CANDACE OWENS: Exactly. I did one episode and I was speaking about also all of his friends. His best friend was this guy, Wilhelm Fliess, who. His son came out, Robert Fliess, and said, “My father sexually assaulted me.” Everyone surrounding him was like sexually assaulting their children in Vienna. Which is, again, what is that?

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I feel like I’ve been everywhere, know a ton of people. I’ve never met anyone who’s been accused of molesting his own child. That is so far out. I’ve known people who have done every bad thing, and I’ve never met anybody who’s even been accused of that.

And yet you’re describing two clusters of people, powerful people, famous people, where like tons of people in the orbit have been accused of or have in fact committed child molestation.

Macron’s Disturbing Book Choice

CANDACE OWENS: Let me just tell you, as you get into my series, as I point to all these orbit around them of everyone who just keeps accidentally committing pedophilia, defending whatever it is. The best part is for me that they kind of laugh in your face. That they want you to know that there’s something. There’s an element of it that’s partially sadistic.

Presidential portrait. Emmanuel Macron leaning against a guest. Everybody has to do this leaning against a desk, obviously, the official presidential portrait. He chooses to put a book. And he has, in multiple interviews, said the anticipated author by Andre Gide on the table. Andre Gide is an author who admitted openly that he was a pedophile. He’s a pederast. He specifically only actually molests little boys. And he would go down to Algeria, Morocco, and he would write books based on his experiences.

The president of France chose to put that book. Okay. An Andre Gide book on his desk for his official presidential portrait. Like there was no other book that you could have picked to put there. There’s an element of it where they. I think that they’ve amassed so much power. And it’s quite interesting because I think maybe Daryl Cooper told you about this. But getting into Bill Barr’s father, Donald Barr.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: Who wrote that weird book.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: The space. It’s called Space Something. “Space Relations” by Donald Barr, where he predicts a colony of Khazars, as he calls them, K-H-A-Z-A-R-S. He spells it that are so bored with their power, they’re so bored with being elite, just getting away with everything, you know. And he then predicts kind of in this fantasy book, Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. It’s very strange. Got it. And he also was, you know, in the OSS, which was the precursor for the CIA.

But there’s an element of that, when I see Emmanuel Macron engaging in that, that it’s like they want to get caught and they just have so much power, they know there’s never going to be any consequences for it. Where you go, why would you do this? You could put any other book on your desk. You could have put literally any other book on your desk, but you chose a self admitted, never denied the fact that he would go down to Morocco and he just was into little, he was into little boys.

Legal Strategy and Discovery

TUCKER CARLSON: So this is all of everything that you’ve said for the past 20 minutes. Makes me think they’d be crazy to bring this to trial because that would allow you discovery.

CANDACE OWENS: I think they’re banking on us dismissing it. I think one of two options.

TUCKER CARLSON: What does that mean?

CANDACE OWENS: You can at first file to dismiss the case because you’re going, hi, we have the First Amendment right. This is crazy. It’s coming from Paris. I mean, like, why on earth would we honor this at all? Secondly, it’s like, are we really going to allow the French president to come in here and like stifle my right to speech? And typically in a normal scenario, a judge would dismiss this case because it’s completely crazy.

And we can obviously then produce the evidence that we asked them these questions and they chose not to reply to them for whatever reason. I think they want us to dismiss it. And again, I’m guessing just so they can say, oh well we tried but you know, America is its own beast and they have actual malice or they are going to pretend that Brigitte died from grief. I don’t know. I don’t. Because clearly they’re not going to go through discovery. Right. If you were going to go through discovery, you would just publish pictures a long time ago and put an end to all the rumors. Right. Because then you’re going to have, you’re going to have to give me proof of these 30 year period where you just kind of.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you’re not going to try to have the case dismissed?

CANDACE OWENS: I certainly do not want to have the case dismissed.

TUCKER CARLSON: Amazing.

CANDACE OWENS: So we’re having, I mean we’re having these cases.

TUCKER CARLSON: I just want to linger in this for a moment, having been around a lot of lawsuits. I’ve never heard anybody sued particularly this is. They’re spending a lot of money on this because Tom Clare and his wife have big expenses and they, I think they charge a lot. I’ve never heard anybody say I don’t want a well funded case against me to be dismissed.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s how I feel. And the reason that I feel that way, truly Tucker, is because you’re being serious. So much bigger, you know, and we’re, so we’re having those discussions. We’ve spoken to the lawyer, we want it moved to Tennessee. They filed some Delaware. What’s happening here is so much bigger and so much more important for the world.

TUCKER CARLSON: Delaware, really?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Which is interesting. You know, Hunter kind of notoriously said, like we control the courts in Delaware.

TUCKER CARLSON: But Fox News found out absurd case against Fox News by Dominion. I was not named in him. I got sucked into it. But Tom Clare was involved in that case and it was in Delaware and they just had a completely compliant judge. It was just a joke.

Unprecedented Legal Territory

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, actually. Well that’s very interesting because they did file in Delaware and it is a place where we know that the courts are corrupt. But this would be a kind of precedent that would be, I think, almost even too crazy for Delaware. You’re talking about a sitting president of another country coming in and saying, I’m going to sue you for telling the truth. We have truth on our side. Right. We actually have truth. So unless he’s going to say blah, blah, blah, I’m not looking at anything. And you’re now you’re going to get no discovery and we’re just going to award this person I mean, you got to give the other side discover, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: How does Macron collect as a foreign head of state? How does he collect?

CANDACE OWENS: This is. There is nothing that we can look at. We are pioneering this, obviously, because this has never happened in the history of the world, that a sitting president of foreign country has sued a journalist in a podcaster in another country. It just, it’s never happened. So we don’t know. I didn’t even know how, how we could sue, actually. I thought that you could only sue in a country. I just am learning with everybody else. That’s amazing how this is going to work.

But again, speaking of Tom Clare and Dominion, as he was sitting up there giddy with Jake Tapper, as these representatives of like the state, because that’s what they represent. They represent the state.

TUCKER CARLSON: And of course they always represent the.

The Satanic Nature of Lawfare

CANDACE OWENS: State, but they’re giddy, talking about Dominion because Jake Tapper sits to him, he’s like, and how much did you get from Dominion lawsuit? That’s a lot of money. You’re going to sue her for all that money? And that tells you who their master is, right? I think we, these people are satanic, right? That you, you’ve, you can’t beat me in the arena of truth and facts. So what do you do next? Well, I’m going to punish you. I’m going to destroy your livelihood. You’re going to have nothing to your name.

And that’s why I say this, this case matters so much more to me because we can’t have this sort of behavior coming from people that are governing us, right? That say, even if you find the truth, even if I am a pervert, even if I got away with sleeping with my student, even though his parents try to take him away, there’s nothing you can do about it. And I’m going to impoverish you for even telling people, like, that’s what this lawsuit is. I’m going to impoverish you for telling the truth.

And they’re happy. You got to see, they’re like, he’s like, giddy discussing it. And then he turns in the camera, Jake Tapper and goes, Fox News did this. And how much money did you get? Like, it’s totally bizarre. I’m like, that’s your master. And you’re going to come up against, you’re going to come up against a hard rock here because I don’t care about money. If I hope the story of Candace Owens over the last two years, people have come to understand that money is not my master.

Truth vs. Lies: The Emotional Toll

TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s very obvious to everyone. What’s interesting, though, since I know everybody you’re talking about, is you’re the happiest person by far. And I don’t mean to be like, fake pious or whatever, like, the good guys win in the end, but it is true that you can tell who’s speaking truth by who is common and happy. It is true. Yeah. Lying makes you afraid, brittle, angry. It does. I’ve lied before. It makes me afraid, brittle and angry. And the more you tell the truth, the calmer you are.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: I just think that’s real. And anyway, I don’t think in the end you win siding with the state against the truth teller.

CANDACE OWENS: No. And that’s why I asked that question. Like, Tom, I know you’ve watched every minute of the series. You know that they are surrounded by these people. You know about the children, victims that have been silenced. Is it really worth it?

TUCKER CARLSON: You said that to him?

A Direct Challenge to Tom Clare

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, on my podcast. I just said I have to openly. As we went through this Manisha affair and this woman ending up dead because they fought to, like, get this pedophile and creature in Amien released, I just asked him, like, is it really worth it? Like, because for me, you couldn’t. I couldn’t look at a case that involved the abuse of children or a network of people who are involved with the abuse of children, who have admitted to abusing children, who are defending people who have admitted to abusing children. And put my head in the pillow at night.

And that’s what matters most in everything that I do. I have to be able to put my head on the pillow at night and say, I feel like I’ve done. I did what I thought was the right thing to do and it was a good thing to do.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: And most people are not guided by that. They’re guided by this master of money. Right. And they’re willing to do these sorts of things to look the other way. Because you’re going to cash a check, like, you and Libby are going to cash check, and, like, that’s going to be good. Do you want that to be your legacy? I ask him that genuinely, like, I hope that out. We do get to court and I get to ask him that face to face. Maybe he’s deposing me. And I get to ask him, like, is the money worth it? I. I just want to know. I need to know that because I could never. When it comes to children, I will breathe fire on Tom Clare before I would sign up to knowingly aid people who have harmed children.

Deposition Strategy and Professional Integrity

TUCKER CARLSON: Having sat in a long deposition with Tom, Clare, I can tell you the game is to make you mad. And that’s very easy with me because I’m a hothead. It probably won’t work with you. You seem to have way more emotional control than I do. But I do think, I just want to. I don’t want to be mean, but I just want to say when people have in mind when Shakespeare wrote about lawyers and like, oh, that’s a little harsh. “Kill all the lawyers.” What are you doing? He had Tom Claire in mind. He really is a discredit to the profession, I can say.

CANDACE OWENS: Or credit to the profession, or credit.

TUCKER CARLSON: If I was legit. I mean, the godfathers of my children are lawyers, you know, and really good. My college roommates, really good guys, great guys, men of integrity, true integrity, with wives who respect them, kids who love them, and just good men. But if I was a lawyer, if I was one of them and Tom Claire is stalking the earth, I’d be like, man, we got to disbar that guy because he discredits the entire profession.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I mean, it’s very interesting. I don’t know what is guiding him at this point, but it is definitively not goodness, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s definitely not.

The Power of Truth in the Face of Adversity

CANDACE OWENS: Does he think he can when I know he doesn’t? Because like I said, I got advice from their law firm not to pursue a defamation claim. So you’re in this, what, to help bolster their idea to the world that they haven’t done anything? When you know, when you know that they’re lying. When you know that your client is lying and you still represent them. I don’t know how people put their head on the pillow at night.

And what’s interesting about me and he’ll just come up against a rock is I have nothing to hide, right? If I had anything to hide, you guys would have found out last year, right? Where I went through and physically felt like an X-ray from the press as they tried to destroy everything that I had, everything that I held dear. I mean, it was non-stop. I mean, banned from Australia, demanding that my speaking events get canceled because I’m an “anti-Semite,” fired in front of the world. I mean, last year was really one for the books and anything that they could find on me, they wrote articles about and they smeared me and they libeled me.

And the idea was to kill me. It was like, lay it dead. This girl should no longer have a career. And I survived it. And I survived it because I had the one thing that they couldn’t quite kill, which is truth on my side. I told the truth. Okay? So at the end of the day, it takes so much more energy and persistence to lie. You have to lie repeatedly. You have to keep telling the person at the shadows on the wall are real. When we tell the truth, you always have to say once and—

TUCKER CARLSON: And it hangs in the air and it resonates. And people can feel that it’s real.

CANDACE OWENS: And so they were unsuccessful in trying to destroy me. To try to destroy everything I’ve ever worked for in my entire life with smears and libels and lies. And so what? What’s left? What is he going to say to me? Like, what are you saying to me during a deposition? Yeah, I think that’s a man. And I think that everyone around them is way too close to pedophilia. And I think, Tom, Clare, that you should be ashamed of yourself and any person that would ever launch a defense, knowing that children were hurt in the process. I think you better hope karma’s not real.

Macron: A Manufactured Leader

TUCKER CARLSON: Have you ever talked to Macron? Texted? He texts people I happen to know.

CANDACE OWENS: I wish he would text me. I’d love to speak to him. I view him as a victim, by the way. Okay, you are a child and your drama teacher, whatever is, is macking on you. And you’re 14 years old. I don’t know what Macron has lived through, but when you get into his backstory, it’s very weird as well. It’s very weird backstory. A lot of holes in the backstory. And he is, to me, like a Zelensky. He’s totally powerless. There’s somebody in the shadows telling him what to do.

One of the more fun things learning about Macron is the press sold him as this savant, like, he’s just always so brilliant and he was ahead of his time. He’s need to sell this creepy relationship, the 14-year-old’s ahead of his time. He was a man like a 60-year-old. I don’t know what we’re doing. Right. That’s weird.

But what was really funny was that he then starts to work for Rothschilds Bank. And before he went to Rothschilds bank, he went to this school. I don’t know how to give you a tit for tat with America. Let’s just call it like he kind of pursued his masters and nobody knew how he got into the school. He actually didn’t get into the school twice. And then he gets into the school and they take this test and he graduates. I mean, he passes with flying colors at the top of the class. And the class revolted because they all knew he was dumb and they knew that there was a fix in for Macron.

And so they just canceled test scores that year for the first time in the school’s history because the kids were suddenly going, “There’s no way this person got this grade.” Same thing happens when he goes to Rothschild bank, they said. And this is again according to a Wall Street Journal book. I only use mainstream sources that everyone who worked with him said he was an absolute idiot. They had no idea why he was at this bank except for the fact that David Rothschild’s hand was on him. Like they basically, he was allowed to be in these rooms. He didn’t even know what IBADA stood for, but he worked for Rothschild.

And they said that it was just very clear that the hand of Rothschild was on him. And so they would all just remark to themselves, “How are we working with this guy who’s an absolute idiot?” So even the idea of Macron being this sophisticated, brilliant banker who was ahead of his time is just not real if the mainstream media sources are to be believed. Again, this was a book that was done by the Wall Street Journal and they sourced people that worked with him and said that he was an absolute idiot. Which mirrored exactly what the people who went to school with him said when they had to cancel test wars because of his fake.

The Theater Kids Running the World

TUCKER CARLSON: What’s the relationship between Macron and Justin Trudeau?

CANDACE OWENS: I—

TUCKER CARLSON: They just remind me of each other. They seem like they’re from the same factory line assembly.

CANDACE OWENS: World Economic Forum is very clearly a homosexual. I think that’s very obvious. People have come out and talked about sleeping with him. Men. He’s never sued them for anything. Very weird.

TUCKER CARLSON: Really?

CANDACE OWENS: Oh yeah, right. When he got, when he became president, there was a—and I’m blanking on his name. He came out and spoke and said there’s this guy is, watch out for Macron. He’s got some issues. He said that he was a part of a sex party with him. Macron never disputed it. And since he likes to sue for defamation, that would have been a pretty good one to go after. If a guy is saying he slept with you and that you have mental issues like that, he’s almost like a masochist in many ways.

But the entire, if you kind of look at the world right now. A lot of theater boys are getting power. Zelensky was an actor and a performer, and he actually played the role of being the president and then actually became the President. Macron, he was a theater boy. Okay. And now all of a sudden, he’s playing the part of the President of France. I don’t take any of these people seriously. This is—

TUCKER CARLSON: You are as people.

CANDACE OWENS: This is your next act. Yeah. You are told to pretend that you’re the President of France and somebody behind you is telling you what to do. And we can definitely, as Americans now, we can all agree, whether you’re left or right, that that is a circumstance after having Biden in office, because we know, irrespective of whether you loved him or hated him, that he was not cognitively there.

TUCKER CARLSON: Right.

CANDACE OWENS: And yet the government still ran. And that should terrify you who was in control.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: While he was on a steep cognitive decline. It’s the same for, I think, the entire Western world, that these people are not in real control and that there’s—they are just made to kind of delude the public into believing that, yeah, this is a Republican, a democracy, and you have a say. And look, you elected this person, but somebody else is obviously pulling the strings.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s a fascinating observation that has never occurred to me that the theater kids have taken like literally the literal theater kids.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s just, here’s your next role. You’re going to be president.

The Nick Fuentes Experience

TUCKER CARLSON: So speaking of theater, I just hesitate even to ask this, but since, because, I mean, it just opens up all this stuff, I don’t want to deal with. But you just interviewed Nick Fuentes or had a conversation with him. What did you think of that? What do you think of him?

CANDACE OWENS: I mean, I can tell you my experience was entirely fraudulent with him. I never interview people as a gotcha interview. It’s always just that he was making the rounds. He’s been around for a while and kind of his story when I learned it, because he was banned from everywhere. So I didn’t actually know what the backstory was with Nick Fuentes. But then I learned it when he was allowed back on X. And Jeremy Boring, who was then the CEO of Daily Wire, did this X live with him.

TUCKER CARLSON: And Jeremy Boring did an event with Nick Fuentes.

CANDACE OWENS: It was. Honestly, it was weird. Everything was weird about what happened, but it happened. And Nick told his story and I was listening in and said essentially that he was canceled because he started asking questions about Israel. He was 18 years old, and he alleged that it was the fault of the Daily Wire or whatever he said. And I found it very interesting. And I was like, “Oh, I actually didn’t know this was the backstory. Maybe this really is a person who had just, ahead of everybody else, was questioning Israel and had a bad hand given to him.”

So I had him on the show, welcomed him into my home, and he was very nice. We told him, “We’re going to cut a controversial trailer. We’re going to show you these clips of you talking trash about me, and you can talk about whatever you want for as long as you want. Ask any questions you want to ask.” It went great. He left. He said, “Thanks, we can now be friends.” And I am not kidding. We published this 11 days later. And he—it was—I don’t even know how to—he just starts screaming, calling me an effing B, C, H. Who set him up. We didn’t edit a single thing those 11 days, like, two weeks before we even published the interview. We told him if there’s anything that he wanted us to insert—nobody does that if you go on their show.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: And I don’t know what. I genuinely don’t know what triggered him, other than me at the very end asking him about family. And it was just—the rage that was coming out of him was just weird. And I don’t know why he did that. I don’t know why he did a 180. You had access to me. You could have said anything after you. Even if he had said in good faith, “I thought I sounded a little weird here. Could you cut it out?” We probably would have cut it out because I just don’t want people to ever not have a good experience.

TUCKER CARLSON: You want people. Well, this—I’ll speak for myself when I invite someone on, especially just to hear their views. I want them to be able to express what they actually think.

CANDACE OWENS: Right, exactly.

TUCKER CARLSON: And you decide what you think, and you decide how to express it. I mean, that’s like a basic human right, kind of. And so I’m not here to trip you up into saying something you don’t mean. I want to hear what you do mean.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, exactly. And he told the story. He did all of that. And apparently then—and I don’t know if it was driven by insecurity. He didn’t know how his followers would take the interview, but he just did a complete 180 lied to his audience, pretended that he was surprised he was behind a paper. Well, we spoke about him and how we were going to release it. He said, “Great.” I mean, it’s a totally total 180 flip.

So I can now say that I didn’t listen to other people say that Nick was a bad person. I didn’t care about what happened when he was 18, 19, 20, 26. I sat across from a person, had a conversation with him, he behaved one way in person, and then put on a show for the Internet. So I actually can say my experience with Nick Fuentes is that he’s a terrible person and a terrible human being. Because why would you do that? There’s no reason to do that. You could have come back onto the show. You could have had beginning of us discussing various topics.

I think in many ways whatever happened to him was when he was 18 may have stunted his growth. Meaning that he now is responding to the Internet, which is filled with people that don’t even use their real names. Right. So really, truly the irony of it all is you could just be like the IDF soldiers, just pretending to be his supporters, just getting him to say whatever you want because he’s going to do whatever you say. But it was strange. It was totally strange. It made no sense. And I just—

TUCKER CARLSON: Did he have a family or a normal life?

CANDACE OWENS: I asked him about that. He said, “Yeah, it comes from a two parent household.” That’s what he told me.

TUCKER CARLSON: Does he have his own family?

CANDACE OWENS: No, he’s not married. And I just offered to him. I was like, “Yeah, I think these are things that you learn when you’re married.” And he just was vicious about it. “Women don’t tell me what to do” or whatever it was. And it was very performative.

I said the exact same thing to Andrew Tate months earlier. I said, “You should get married. Here’s why.” And of course, Andrew Tate did not react like that. He told me what his hang ups were about marriage. It was just a part of two people communicating on a show. But for whatever reason, he saw this as like an attack. It was weird.

TUCKER CARLSON: It was totally a tender spot. Well, okay. Has it occurred to you that – and I just want to say I haven’t watched a lot of Nick Fuentes in my life at all. But what I’ve seen, he’s very talented. As someone who’s talked to cameras his whole life, it is very hard to sit and just riff for 20 minutes. I think it’s an amazing skill. And he has that skill.

But I also have noticed that his targets are all people who are sincere, non-crazy, non-hateful opponents of neocon politics.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you have to kind of wonder about that. Nick Fuentes is like, “Oh, I don’t like the neocons.” But then his targets are J.D. Vance, Joe Kent. He tried to get involved in Joe Kent’s campaign with a super PAC. You, me. And it’s like, what is that?

Questioning Fuentes’ Targets

CANDACE OWENS: Dave Smith? I asked him about that because that’s a question that I had. So I did the right thing by asking him to his face, “What’s up with this? Why do you attack Dave Smith? You say that your biggest critique is that America’s being controlled by Israel. Then you have Dave Smith, who has been such a sound voice.” And by the way, opposite experience with Dave Smith. He’s a fantastic human being.

TUCKER CARLSON: He’s one of the nicest people.

CANDACE OWENS: Fantastic human, yes. And so I judge people according to my experiences with them. And so Nick is being judged according to my experience with him.

TUCKER CARLSON: But what does this come from? I had – I probably shouldn’t even say this, but the only reason I know who he is is because someone sent me a video a few years ago of him attacking me. And I was like, “So I’m looking at this and I’m like, well, first of all, this kid’s really talented, legit.” And I can assess that, just having done the job for so long. So it’s like, “Wow, lots of talent, native talent.”

And he’s attacking my dad as CIA. “His dad’s CIA” or whatever. And I’m like, “Well, that’s not true.” Then my father dies and I learn, actually, yeah, dad was involved in that world. Completely shocked by it. So no one has to believe me, but that’s just a fact.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: This was in March of this year. I’m like, “Well, why would – how the hell would this child from Chicago?” My dad was 84 when he passed. “Who’s this guy know my dad is in intelligence world? How would he know that?”

CANDACE OWENS: Wait, so that was his critique of you? Because I didn’t see it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, someone just sent me this video and it was like, “You can’t believe anything Carlson says, because his father was in the CIA and he’s working on behalf of the CIA.” Well, I mean, I think it’s pretty obvious. And I’m pretty – I mean, I actually feel emotional in my anger towards CIA. And I think that comes out on the air quite regularly.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: And so the idea that I’m working for the CIA is deranged.

CANDACE OWENS: Well, if it helps, he said I was funded by Russia. Now, since the interview, he then did a thing and said I was funded by Russia.

Pattern of Discrediting Voices

TUCKER CARLSON: You would be a lot more likely to take Russian money than I would be to work for the CIA, because you would never take Russian money and you’re not Russian. But I mean, I really hate the CIA. And I mean, that’s very offensive to me. So why would you – it’s personal for you? Well, a little bit, yeah.

And anyway, who is this kid? Exactly? And maybe it’s just an accident that the guy goes after exclusively people who are in roughly the same camp. And then he gets up there and he’s making Holocaust jokes. And it’s like, is it possible that this is like David Duke?

David Duke – every time I had a new show, David Duke would endorse my show. I don’t know who the hell is David Duke? Well, David Duke is obviously part of a campaign to discredit people on the right. Obviously. And I think it’s very obvious that Nick Fuentes is exactly the same.

Doesn’t mean everything he says is false. It doesn’t mean he’s not talented. He’s enormously talented. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad person. I’m not attacking him personally, but he is clearly part of a campaign to discredit non-crazy right voices. That’s obvious to me. I’ve been around a long time. I know when I see it.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And I will say I don’t understand it. We were very kind to him. We almost said we felt maybe he was a bit lonely, we should invite him back for dinner. I mean, that’s how good of an experience I had.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, clearly.

CANDACE OWENS: And then it was a 180. So it’s either being driven from little boy insecurity and he just was so worried that he went on the attack because he doesn’t know how to have normal relations after being banned everywhere.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I think there’s the angry gay kid thing going on.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Or it’s what you’re saying where he does this – he’s lying to everybody and pretending that things are one way when it’s not. I can say —

The Joe Kent Example

TUCKER CARLSON: Why is he attacking Joe Kent? I mean, Joe Kent worked as a CIA contractor, paramilitary contractor. He’s in the US Military for years fighting our neocon wars. And his wife was killed in Syria in one of those wars. Joe Kent is the single most sincere critic, and I would say the one with the most credibility in the United States, to say, “This foreign policy is bad. It killed my wife. I was a part of it.”

Joe Kent is actually someone the CIA doesn’t like at all because he understands how it operates. And for Nick Fuentes, who’s some child from Chicago, to go after him, specifically one congressional seat in Washington State –

CANDACE OWENS: That is random.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s not random, though. It’s the opposite of random. Joe Kent was number one on the list of people they wanted to knock off, people who believe in our neocon foreign policy. They wanted Joe Kent out because he could stand up and say, “I actually know. I’ve got the receipts. My wife was killed in Syria. You had to take that guy out.”

And Nick Fuentes, this child, this weird little gay kid in his basement in Chicago is participating in a super PAC to bump off Joe Kent. I’ve been around this my whole life. I know what that is. Just an organized effort.

And he also did the thing that David Duke always did, including to me, which is be like, “Oh, yes, my friend.” And everyone’s like, “Oh, Tucker Carlson’s been endorsed by David Duke.” I’ve been making the anti-racist argument my whole life. I’m not for David Duke. Do I think David Duke is right when he’s against affirmative action? You bet I do. But I’m not for David Duke.

But David Duke would try to discredit people by hugging them. And that’s exactly what Fuentes did. He goes out there, meets all these people. “Hi, I’m Nick Fuentes. Can I get my picture with you?” That’s a campaign to destroy credible voices on the right, and Fuentes is part of it.

And I know I’m going to invite endless trouble by saying this because this is a kid with a lot of spare time, but it’s just a fact, and I’ve seen it a lot. And you can believe me or not, but I know what I’m talking about.

Confirming the Dishonesty

CANDACE OWENS: I can confirm he’s dishonest. I mean, there’s no – so you use that as your baseline. I could not determine what his motives were. And I said, “You know what? I don’t have time for this. I gave you a fair chance, gave you a fair shake, and you are a fundamentally dishonest human being.”

There was no reason to do it. If he had not done that show and screamed and yelled, his followers would have been like, “Oh, that was an interesting conversation between two people who agreed some, disagreed some, and that was it.” It was interesting that he got there. He doesn’t want to be anywhere but where he is. He doesn’t want to have normal relations.

And it did sort of feel, and I said that to him, that he’s responding to orders somewhere because why are you attacking me? Why are you attacking Dave Smith? What is the issue with Dave Smith? And he couldn’t answer the question.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: He couldn’t answer the question. He was just like, “Well, the fakest…”

TUCKER CARLSON: Thing I’ve ever seen.

CANDACE OWENS: And I’m like, “Why do you hate Dave Smith over Joe Rogan?” And it’s like, “Well, Dave Smith is this kind of a Jew.” And I’m like, “Okay, I don’t – either you really are this immature and you haven’t gotten further in your idea, or you’re just attacking people and making people think that these attacks are legitimate when they’re really not.” And we were so kind to him that I was just like, “Okay, he’s…”

TUCKER CARLSON: He’s attacking Dave Smith because Dave Smith is effective and credible. He’s very effective because he’s smart, he’s a decent person. There’s no hate on Dave Smith. And you would smell it if there was. There isn’t. And he has credibility and he has knowledge, and he’s a marvelous debater and once again, a really good person.

So you have to take out Dave Smith. You have to take out Joe Kent. Those are the good people. You have to take out J.D. Vance. He was against J.D. Vance. So if you’re against more pointless wars on behalf of foreign powers, you’re probably not going to be attacking J.D. Vance. And Vance was exactly the person he was attacking.

And the sad thing is, and I know that no one who watches him will believe me because they’re desperate, because they are the victims of a system that hates them. It’s young white men who’ve been totally cut out of our economy, attacked mercilessly, given narcotics – just go die. I mean, they really are the victims and they’re desperate and no one speaks for them.

So they go to Fuentes because he’s incredibly articulate and they think he’s our leader. But in one of the saddest ironies of all, he’s acting against your interests. Actually, it’s really dark.

The Authenticity Test

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. I don’t believe he says. I don’t. I no longer think that he believes what he says. And I can say that, like even the whole. Yeah, I just say I’m a race racist. I know in part he says stuff to be entertaining and that’s fine. There’s an element of it that is meant to be entertaining.

But you got on a pod, a flight to come down onto a podcast with a black woman. Like, I don’t think you’re racist. I don’t believe your ideas that women, it’s like, you know, women need to shut up. It’s like, okay, why are you on my podcast? Why are you saying that you want people to have you on their podcasts?

So there’s just the. There’s a gap between what he says and how he acts. And for me, that’s just worthy of dismissing full speed. Stop. You know, be authentic. I don’t care who you are. Like, genuinely, I kind of like Taylor Lorenz because I know that she actually believes what she says. Authentic.

And I, like, she’s been wearing a mask for five years. Okay. It is real to her. Covid is real to her. This is not a performance. She is not. This is not CNN. It’s not Jake Tapper, and I respect it. I told my parents I kind of like her. It’s weird because I know she’s authentic. And we would just genuinely never agree. We would always be at odds, but we would recognize that you truly believe this. And you are still double masked in 2025.

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m so with you.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. I like her because it’s real. And that’s all it takes for me to like someone. I have to know that you believe what you’re saying. And I’m good with Taylor.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, that’s so perfect. That is such a great. I ran into her in some foreign country. I was giving a speech somewhere in a foreign country. I think it was in the Middle East. But anyway, she comes up to me at the speech and she’s wearing a mask. I have no idea who this person is, but I look at her eyes and they’re kind of going in different directions. They’re like super intense. She goes, “Hi, it’s Taylor.” I don’t know her. I’ve never met her. And I was like, “Oh, Taylor Lorenz.” And she’s like, “Yeah.” The. My only takeaway was the intensity is real.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, it’s real. Yeah. So it’s like, how can you not like her? The people that I can’t stand are people who get up there. Like the Jake Tappers, the world who get up there and they say stuff they don’t believe. It’s not how they live. It’s not what their true positions are. They say it for a chat. Check Taylor Lorenz. This is not. It’s not a check for her. Okay?

I’m like, that stops at wearing four. She’s been wearing a mask for five years. She hasn’t seen her face in five years. Okay. This is real for Taylor Lorenz. And I therefore like her. That’s how my brain works. I just, I. I am here for Taylor Lorenz.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s. I think it’s a great way to judge.

CANDACE OWENS: Just be authentic.

TUCKER CARLSON: I do, I do. I think telling the truth, even if you’re wrong.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Doing your best, really, really matters. So how do you. So you mentioned before that last year was a. Was. Was just a tsunami of attacks on you, not simply on your views and their accuracy, which I think is. You know, it’s legitimate to critique anything any of us say on the basis of whether or not it’s true, but on your character. And they were very intense. They attacked your family. Won’t go more. I won’t go deeper than that, but you know what I’m talking about. I mean, they really went after you, your opponents. How did that affect you?

Surviving the Storm

CANDACE OWENS: It was one of the strangest things, where it strengthened us in a way. I think you have to get real up close to the devil, Just really see it in its action and its form. And then you just go, okay, we’re doing this. And there’s no thinking because you’re just fighting. And I think about last year, it was just. We were constantly fighting and very focused in those fights.

TUCKER CARLSON: And not with each other.

CANDACE OWENS: No. Me and my husband were just like. We’ve truly. I mean, not to say we’ve never been united. We’ve always been united, but we are the way. What we went through last year, it was just, we can make it through anything, you know, how do you keep it? He was so calm. And I do think I attribute that to his faith. I attribute that. You know, my husband is a spiritual leader first and foremost, and I think if he had shown even a fraction of uncertainty. I probably would have come apart. Do you know what I mean?

I do, but he was just. It was amazing. I don’t know how he does it. I’ve reflected to him because obviously we’ve survived it. We came back bigger and stronger. And I just look back and I go, were you like, dying on the inside? Were you like, going into the closet and crying, you know, behind my bag? Because I don’t know how George did. I really don’t know how he did it, but he was just laser focused.

Nothing was a drama or a saga. It’s like, Australia’s banned us. And he’s just like, okay, here’s the person on the phone, the lawyer. We’re going to go. And we are right now in the Supreme Court in Australia right now. It. The case is called Candace Owens versus the Commonwealth of Australia. I’m versus France versus Australia. And he’s like, here’s what we’re going to do.

So it was one of those things where when you go through those sorts of attacks, it either breaks you or it strengthens you. And it strengthened us. And I didn’t think that we needed to be strengthened. And so now I’m so grateful for last year because there was this divine clarity that came into our lives. Who are, who are our real friends? Right? Who are our real friends? And these other people, how could we have ever thought that they were our friends?

Like even waiting to see who’s going to speak out and say this is wrong. Like, the number one litmus test is, let’s not forget, before we even get down to the books that I’ve read and what I think now, all I said was, “Christ is king,” okay? This was like, it’s anti Semitic, it’s layered, it’s this, it’s that. And there were people who I would have been like, I’ve always been friendly with who are making videos legit, legitimizing that. Like, she didn’t say it directed to anybody, but it could have been kind of implied. And this is why you shouldn’t say crisis King. And we’re looking around going, what is going on right now? What is happening? And I think at that moment, one.

The “Christ Is King” Controversy

TUCKER CARLSON: One of the craziest controversies I’ve ever seen, this controversy. So there were people on the so called right who attacked you for saying “Christ is king.”

CANDACE OWENS: Of course there were. And one of those people was, and I’ve been very vocal about it because he’s such a bad person, Seth Dillon. And what makes him such a bad person is I. I really stood up for Seth Dylan. When it mattered.

TUCKER CARLSON: I did, too.

CANDACE OWENS: When it really mattered. And like, the. Like, he thought he was going to lose everything. And I did it privately, you know, no fanfare, just because I wanted the right thing to be done to him. And at a moment, we’re all actually. If he had just given me silence, that would’ve been friendship in that moment. Like, the whole world is coming after me. I just lost my job. I’m trending, you know, from here to Timbuktu.

If you had just been quiet and said nothing about Crisis gang, I would have been like, that was nice. Thank you for not adding to the chorus. No, no. He added to the chorus, you know, and then would, like privately try to message me to be like, well, and this was their whole big idea. They were attributing it to Nick Fuentes. And I. No idea that Nick Fuentes chanted “Christ is king.” And by the way, if he does chant, “Christ is king” good. That’s a good thing. Like, I want everyone to be chanting “Christ is king,” basically.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s like fundamental, like Christianity.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, exactly. It doesn’t matter if. If Nick Fuentes is saying “Jesus is king.” He is. And so he was sort of saying to me that I would have to make a layered statement about “Christ is king.” And he said that to you? Very much. Came. Came across. I said to him, I’ll publish. Because when he denied it publicly, I said, let me publish the text messages. And then he went radio silent because I don’t lie. Okay? I don’t lie.

And he wanted me to make a statement against Gorpers. So my whole world is coming down, and Seth Dylan’s like, here’s what you can do for me if you’d like. Life a raft, you know, I mean, yeah, it’s just tweet against the gripers. And I was just like, seriously, Seth Fu. You. When your family had something that you were going, and I stood up for you and I. There was nothing for me to gain, everything for me to lose. And you’re. You’re upset about random frog accounts on the Internet, and you’re adding to this chorus of things that are being said against me. And it’s amazing.

TUCKER CARLSON: He’s a betrayer.

CANDACE OWENS: He is. He’s deceitful. You know, he is the Judas at your table. You know, he’ll break bread with you, come to your house and feel nothing when he stabs you in the back.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: And so with. But I was just early. Now everyone sees it because now him and Joel Barry have been so deranged in their pro Israel comedy. Like they literally like applaud when I, I genuinely think that these people smile when Palestinian children die. But I saw it early. His character, I saw his character early when all that was required for him to be a friend was to just be quiet. He couldn’t do it. You know, he added to it.

Tucker’s Similar Experience

TUCKER CARLSON: I had exactly the same experience, exactly the same experience with him. I put him on twice at the request of other people. I took him out to dental dinner, my house. And I did think it’s kind of weird. And I totally supported the Babylon Bee. I love the idea of it. Don’t read it, but I, I want something like that. And I think they’re probably really nice people who work there, I assume. No, but I remember thinking and even saying to one of my producers, boy, for a guy who runs a comedy site, he’s not funny at all. And he seems to have no interest in comedy at all. Not that I’m a comedian, but I like funny things. You know, I’m a shallow guy.

And I did think that was weird. And then, then, and I didn’t lie, I didn’t like his vibe. However, I did it twice. And then I had Daryl Cooper on the last day of August last year. I did not think it was controversial at all.

CANDACE OWENS: It wasn’t.

TUCKER CARLSON: No. And Daryl Cooper’s like, not even right wing. I mean, D. Cooper’s just like a really nice guy. And it was, you know, he’s a holocaust dinner, which he is not. That’s a lie. Or at least he didn’t do it on my show. He’s never done it in conversation. Whatever. It became this manufacturer controversy and one of my producers, like Seth Dillon is attacking you. I was like, I don’t think so. I mean, I really helped that guy twice. And because he was, you know, his site was being banned or whatever.

So I text Seth Dillon and I’m like, is this, Are you really attacking me? And he starts like lecturing me in a very high handed way. And I of course took the bait. And then he published some of the texts.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, so he does. Okay, that’s good to know. He publishes private.

TUCKER CARLSON: I may be misremembering this, but he came up to me at an event in. I was doing it, I was campaigning for Donald Trump and he was there, he was very excited to be there. And he comes up to me, I was standing with a bunch of people, including Marjorie Taylor Greene, and he comes up and he’s like, “Well, I think you should forgive me. You’re A Christian. You say you’re a Christian. You should forgive me.”

And I should forgive him because I am a Christian and that’s like a requirement of our religion. But I just couldn’t because of all the people I’ve dealt with, with. I met Kim Jong Un once. Not quite as mad at him as I am at Seth Dylan because I just. The, the betrayal, the superciliousness, the stupidity and the cruelty of it. I just couldn’t.

Harvey Weinstein Interview: Uncovering the Truth Behind the MeToo Movement

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, but he’s gone masked down. I mean, he accidentally sent a screenshot. They didn’t realize. Like James Lindsay. He sends screenshots to James Lindsay and James Lindsay. I don’t know who he is, but I know. But he’s always on Twitter in the same puddle of people who are constantly just like, I don’t know, like applauding Palestinian death.

And he asked James Lindsay didn’t realize that it showed that it was from Seth Dylan’s account. So clearly Seth Dylan had texted it to him. And then James Lindsay then like said something about what it was. And it was amazing. It was a mask down moment where it’s like, yeah, you’re all on a group chat and you’re sharing information of people who do attack and you presented yourself as like the funny, nice guy and you’re anything but, like, you know, you’re quite sinister.

And it’s. We all kind of fell for it for a little bit because “I’m just the guy who does satire.” No, you are like a totally deranged, angry individual who would literally break bread with anyone and then stab them in the back. And so for me, like I said, I fear nothing. I was like, really semesters daylight. I will survive daylight. I have always treated people with kindness and I have always worked very hard. I tell the truth.

So there’s nothing that Seth Dylan can expose about me that’s going to hurt my feelings, or make me look like I’m a bad person. He’s genuinely a bad person. So these were the sorts of individuals, like last year when we were going through it where I was like, am I. Did I misremember us being like me? Like putting everything on the line to help him and could he just give us silence for a couple weeks? Like, she’s not. Just not just don’t add in to the chorus. I’m not asking you to defend me. I’m asking you to not join in on the chorus of people.

TUCKER CARLSON: It is just a weird world when you wake up and realize, like, Taylor Lorenz is obviously kind of deranged. Her views are, like, repugnant to me. I’ve made fun of Taylor Lorenz, like, for a living. I’ve literally been paid to make fun of Taylor Lorenz, I’ll admit it. But when you realize that she is actually a much more sincere and decent person than the guy who runs the Babylon Bee, then you realize, wow, what’s going on? What’s going on?

CANDACE OWENS: Sincere. I disagree with her on everything, but she’s more sincere. I don’t think she’s privately, like, being like, “I’m not scared of COVID.” She’s scared of COVID. You know what I mean? So she’s at least sincere. Wrong, but she’s sincere.

And yeah, that’s that. But I think that’s what last year really was, is there. There was this moment where. Where it needed to happen. There was this organic shedding where we got to see people for who they actually were. And a lot of people didn’t survive last year. They’re not the same. You know, it’s not these people that were really big who spent all the time attacking. Now people are looking at them going, what was that?

Because you can’t attack yourself into success, right? You can’t step on somebody’s head when they’re drowning and think that people are not going to realize what you did. Because like we said earlier, at the end of the day, you’re not in a battle with Candace Owens. You’re in a battle with truth. And I wouldn’t want to be on the side of lies when. When you’re in a battle against truth.

Okay, I told the truth. Truth. I said, “Christ is king.” Whether I, you know, when I told even about Brigitte, whatever it is, whatever you’re attacking me for, eventually the truth is going to win. And you guys keep banking on the lies. And so I’m happy. I’m very happy last year happened. I was very happy to delete a lot of these people from. From my contacts. And it was a clarifying year that I can only look back on and thank God you got. Thank God for moments of clarity.

The Harvey Weinstein Interview: How It Came About

TUCKER CARLSON: So maybe the interview I expected least was most surprised by, but kind of weirdly delighted by was Harvey Weinstein. What. How did that happen? What was the thinking, you know, the.

CANDACE OWENS: The backstory of that actually is somebody in Harvey’s orbit reached out to me while I was at the Daily Wire and said, “I’d really like you to go on the phone with Harvey. I’d love for you to, like, think about sitting down and interviewing him and doing all this stuff.”

And, you know, at that time, I thought he was guilty of sin like everybody else did because there were just so many women and was thinking, wow, he must be pretty desperate to want to, like, reach out to me. I know he’s left leaning, saying, like, “I’ll do it. Sure, fine.”

And I got on the phone with him in prison and was very surprised that he clearly, this friend was kind of lying. And he, Oprah, was being floated to do the interview. And he’s like, “Why on earth would I give you this interview?” He was very, very powerful. And he. I always describe it as Harvey has like a growl about him. You could. He’s still very powerful.

And he kind of lashed me and said, you know, “I support the ADL” and talked about Kanye and talked about my support for trying. He was all over the place. Still. Still a leftist in his prison cell. And I amazed by this.

TUCKER CARLSON: He lectured you about the ADL from prison?

CANDACE OWENS: From prison. It was incredible. My autobiography is going to be amazing if I ever sit down and write one. Like, that’s definitely a highlight. I’m like, I’m getting lectured by Harvey Weinstein. He’s in prison.

And then I was sort of like, I realized at that point that I was trying out for, like, one of his movies in a way. And I had to kind of sell myself of, like, why I would do. I wanted to do the interview. And then I thought this was so strange. And then I hung up and I looked into the case. Case, because that person then sent me the stuff.

And I was just shocked. I’ve never seen a crazier conviction in my entire life. He literally got convicted because people were crying, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. I mean, one case, his argument is, “I wasn’t even there. It wasn’t even there. It’s not even. It’s not even like,” he’s like, “I know this one. He’s like, I was not. I don’t even stay at that hotel and I don’t know this woman.”

And the judge would not allow him talking about the corruption of court. Courts to subpoena her cell phone records to see if she was even there. It was the. And that was the person that got him, whatever, 15 years in LA.

TUCKER CARLSON: Who.

Examining the Evidence

CANDACE OWENS: The cases are incredible. “You were raped by him over the course of 10 years.” Help me understand this. And none of these women are young, by the way, because then I’m like, maybe there was an argument. They were 17 and he manipulated. They were so young. These women were 30 years old. We know what this is. This is a sugar baby, traditional relationship. This is how it’s always been in Hollywood.

Young girls want careers, they sleep with directors, they do that stuff consensually. And I think in the case of Harvey Weinstein, because he actually cared very deeply about his movies, they assumed he was going to give them these roles and he didn’t. He just was sort of like, “Yeah, I’m Harvey Weinstein.” These girls threw themselves at him thinking there was going to be an exchange and there just wasn’t one.

And then if you look back on your life and now you’re 50 and you slept with Harvey Weinstein, like, not the hottest, nervous Brad Pitt looking person. You’re like, “What did I get for this?” And you kind of then see this movement taking off and it’s MeToo. And suddenly it’s, you know, “He had the power.”

And yeah, so what? “I sent him a couple of emails saying, I love you after he raped me.” Which they did, because that’s what actually. Yeah, no, “Love you, miss you.” But constantly, the emails, when you read through them, because there’s a trove of them, are always them trying to be like, like, “Hey, I hear there’s an upcoming audition. I’d love to attend the audition. Or I’m going to.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Can.

CANDACE OWENS: Can you get me some tick? I mean, it is what it is. This was your traditional oldest trade in the book, is what I would say. You know, the oldest trade in the book.

TUCKER CARLSON: So what. I mean, okay, for a hardened anti-Semite Nazi like you, you’re defending the ADL defender, Harvey Weinstein. Like, what? I don’t. How did you. Why? Why? So a lot of people look at this and first of all, I just want to say I support it. Just that I’m joking and I support it only because I think that justice matters. I know Harvey Weinstein. He’s a pig, as you know.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Doesn’t mean he’s a criminal. And I just think it’s important to convict people when they violate the law and not to convict them when they don’t.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: And truth is the most important thing. So I support it. But it is like, of all the stories, like, what drew you to that?

The MeToo Movement: A Critical Examination

CANDACE OWENS: Well, because he was the beginning of the MeToo movement. And I’ve had a great right from the MeToo movement from the day that it trended on Twitter. I mean, you can go back. I am left and right. People were scared to say anything about the MeToo movement when it first happened because it was about rape. And people are instantly uncomfortable.

And left and right, people were just sort of reticent to say, “Oh, but don’t we need to have, like, due diligence here?” And people were losing their jobs left and right on the basis of an allegation because it was hashtag trending. Hashtag MeToo. And right away, when it first started.

TUCKER CARLSON: Trending, trending, it was mob justice.

CANDACE OWENS: Yep. I said something against it, and I almost got canceled. Like, I will never forget this Charlie Kirk. We had to get together with the PR agents. I was at Turning Point. He had Turning Point girls that were quitting, crying, saying I was, “How could she not support the MeToo movement like I was sexually?” It was totally and. And credit to Charlie Kirk. Like, he held down the line because, you know, like I said, if you stand on truth, eventually people catch up and realize something’s really wrong with this movement.

But Harvey was this case where I think the entire world agreed that he was. Must have been guilty of something. There were just so many women that were coming out saying that this took place.

TUCKER CARLSON: And his personal style was so, you know, he’s, like, eating with his mouth open, smoking in the elevator. I mean, I saw him do it. And so I think, because he is just like, this piggish, overbearing, crass guy, which is not a crime.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, you just want to see him go down.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, then he must have done it, right? And, like. Like, are you really going to take the side of Harvey Weinstein?

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

TUCKER CARLSON: He’s today’s villain.

The Evidence That Changed Everything

CANDACE OWENS: And I thought I was just doing an interview where I was going to, like, you know, push back, get to the truth. And when I looked at these cases, I was just shocked. You know, what, 90 women who came out and said he did something. And it actually boiled down to three cases.

And in the two New York ones that he got 26 years for, I mean, just. You read the emails. It’s crazy. You just cannot come out of reading the emails from Jessica Mann and. And Eva. I’m blanking on her last name. And just go, “What happened here? Like, what do you mean? You convicted him of rape on the basis of these emails alone.”

Why would you then, like, has anybody ever. And Jessica Mann clearly is the first person ever who’s done this, hit up their rapist after, and been like, “Hey, I’m with my mom in town. Like, can we come by? You know, would you want to meet my mom?” Because actually, actually, that’s one of the emails post rape. You know, it’s hard for me to believe that that’s rape I don’t believe in. If lucky I wasn’t sending on that jury.

And I think it does it a tremendous disjustice to injustice to two people. First women. Right. Who are actually raped.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, of course.

CANDACE OWENS: Because if we’re now saying all of this is rape, and then people are just not going to be inclined to believe women who are actually raped are going to go, “Oh, another rape situation. Okay,” so that’s it. It’s like you’re. You’re softening what it means to be raped.

But the second thing is I have three sons. This case mattered to me because. Because my son’s lives are now threatened by this movement that said hashtag believe women. Women lie. They lie a lot. Right? I mean, and so why don’t we do this crazy thing and just believe the facts and follow the facts of the case?

And so I was very concerned when this movement just kind of got carried away. I even had to defend someone who I don’t like. Matt Lauer. That was a crazy case. Very clearly had a consensual relationship all over New York with that intern.

The Media’s Role in Character Assassination

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: But she was raised raped the first time. And then all the other times, apparently it wasn’t rape. It doesn’t really matter because here’s a check, right? And that’s what happened. And to this day, he carries on being branded a rapist.

People still say that about Matt Lauer because somebody made an allegation. And when you look at the facts, it’s like, no, he was a scumbag. He was cheating on his wife. He was abusing his power, certainly because the people, the reason they probably wanted to sleep with him is because he was Matt Lauer of the Today show. But to call him a rapist, like, is that fair?

TUCKER CARLSON: I agree.

CANDACE OWENS: Is that okay? Can we at least all say, I don’t care whether you’re left or right, but that’s wrong. And that was the challenge of the Harvey Weinstein case.

TUCKER CARLSON: I know a lot about that story just because that’s the world I lived in. I knew him and everything you just said is true.

The Harvey Weinstein Case: Power Dynamics in Hollywood

CANDACE OWENS: Of course. I mean, I am a woman. I clearly know that women will flirt with guys to get what they want, even if it’s a drink at a bar. So you can only imagine Hollywood where you welcome that climate of exchange. Women who just want to be the next Angelina Jolie. They all think they’re going to be the next Angelina Jolie. What they’d be willing to do for that part. And Harvey benefited from that.

He was Harvey Weinstein making the best movies that have been made in Hollywood. And honestly, I’d argue that movies haven’t been great since Harvey went in. His movies were like, I mean, every classic movie that you can think of, Harvey Weinstein. The Weinstein Company produced through Miramax. It was his company that had produced so much.

It was a lot to unpack, and yet they still moved. Obviously, the appellate judges said this case was completely ridiculous. It was rigged. “Why’d you guys even allow these people into the courtroom just to convict his character? Not based on the facts.” And it got sent back down. But he just lost again on two of the cases.

And so I just interviewed him. And that interview is coming out today again to ask him, “Okay, here’s a broader question. Harvey, who hates you? Because this is so clearly somebody took you out.” And that’s how I look at the case now. Who are you involved with? Who did you piss off that wanted you to no longer be who you were in Hollywood? Because this is power. This is a structure. The judges are allowing this to take place for a reason. And his answers were quite interesting. I think Harvey Weinstein did upset a lot of powerful people, and he was honest about that.

TUCKER CARLSON: I get it. I have no trouble believing that at all, given his style, which is totally overbearing and awful. But throwing someone in prison for the rest of his life is too much.

CANDACE OWENS: He said Gloria Allred told him if he paid her, and I view her as a gangster of sorts. Everyone knows how she moves when she’s on a case. She doesn’t lose. If he had paid her, and I want to say it was a million dollars, don’t quote me, that it would go away. She could make it go away. He didn’t do it. That’s what he told me on record.

So people are going to hear it from his own mouth, but that tells me that we’re looking at maybe something different. And what was the MeToo movement? And I’ve spoken to other people that were victims of it, and they alleged to me that a lot of it has to do with publishing rights, that if they want to take out a business, you can force a person to essentially have to sell their business and their assets if you can create a scandal.

The Michael Jackson Case: A Different Perspective

And I’m inclined to believe that after examining the Michael Jackson case because he was in a war with Sony over publishing rights, and suddenly he was being accused. And I didn’t remember much about that case. But then when I went and I looked at it, it was a crazy story of a kid who was drugged by his dad to say that he was raped by Michael Jackson. Literally, he was drugged by his father.

And so you start to wonder if there’s a lot of stuff that’s happening in Hollywood that many people have tried to speak out about, and those people have either been deemed crazy or in the case of Michael Jackson, “No, he’s into children.” And we sort of pay attention to the media circus of everything without realizing that there could be other stuff happening in Hollywood.

TUCKER CARLSON: Do you think it’s possible that Michael Jackson was not a child molester?

CANDACE OWENS: I am now convinced after looking at the case that he was not and that he was at war with Sony. And I did a whole episode on it. I was shocked because I grew up loving Michael Jackson, and then I was absolutely repulsed by Michael Jackson. He meant so much in my childhood. And then I was repulsed by Michael Jackson.

And then I decided to reexamine what happened, and I just couldn’t believe it. I mean, I literally could not believe it. Harvey Weinstein was winning. He was going to win the Beatles catalog. It was his. He was fighting Sony and winning. And then just like that, scandal broke. Dead. Even the way he died is weird, but when you go back and look at that case, you realize the media tells you so much, but they tell you absolutely nothing.

TUCKER CARLSON: Michael Jackson was weird in the same way that Harvey Weinstein was obnoxious in the same way that Richard Jewel seemed like a fake cop. The guy was blamed for the Atlanta Olympic bombing in ’96 who didn’t do it. They kind of fit your preconceptions of what a bad guy like that would be. Michael Jackson living at Neverland is weird. Kind of personal Disney with all these little kids, you’re like, “He’s clearly a kid toucher.”

CANDACE OWENS: And he definitely had issues because he felt that he had his childhood stolen from him. So he kind of made it his priority in this, I would say, very creepy way to constantly say, “I’m going to create this Neverland Ranch and so kids are never going to go through anything.”

But it’s quite telling that he was so close with Macaulay Culkin, right? Also, another person who alleged that he was being raped by directors. Was that Corey, I want to say Corey Feldman? And he’s been vocal about how he was abused. And both of those people said absolutely never, not once did Michael Jackson do anything to them. They stood up for him.

And then when you get into the people that said that he did something and you figure out what their motives were, one’s drugged, one was paid. The Michael Jackson story gets completely crazy. And so what you had was a man who was stunted in his growth because of his childhood, who wanted to make the world a special magical place for people. And he became the perfect target.

I mean, he won his case. So we can say Michael Jackson was not guilty. He actually won his case once the jury saw all the evidence. But it’s kind of scary to think that a media circus can be created about you and people can believe things, just like we were saying with Matt Lauer.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

The Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni Case

CANDACE OWENS: Absent very little fact because the media just keeps saying it. And that gets into the importance of why I select certain cases. The Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni case is another one. Again, Justin Baldoni is Jewish, obviously. So is Steve Sarowitz. I’m like the worst anti-Semite ever. Here I am defending these people.

But it’s the same thing. She went to the press and tried to smear this man and ruin his existence by claiming in so many words that he had sexually harassed her. And she made him sound, with the help of the New York Times, like he was an absolute creep. A pervert. A sex addicted pervert. If you read that article, you took away that Justin Baldoni was a sex addicted pervert. And poor Blake Lively had to survive doing a movie with him.

If Brian Friedman had not done what he had done and published the entire, he said nothing to hype every text message sent between Blake and Justin and Ryan Reynolds. The world would have believed what she and the New York Times had worked on. It was a shocking case. People are, “Oh, it’s just celebrity drama.” No, this isn’t celebrity drama. This is so much deeper than that.

We are talking about the corruption of the media who has the trust of the people. You’re an educated person. You read the New York Times, right? The New York Times essentially assisted in a hit on a man. For what reason? What did Blake actually want from Justin Baldoni? Publishing rights.

And we got to read her messages and she wanted to be put on the film and she wanted to be put as a producer, executive producer, or else. “You do this or else. I’m not going to come back. Here are my demands.” Threatening. I mean, a total witch, truly. That woman is possessed. I cannot, after reading those messages and Justin falling over himself because he was like, “She’s an A-lister.” He was almost pathetic. Stand up for yourself at a certain point.

And what’s happening right now in the court system in New York, they’re allowing her to, it just seems like it’s a very corrupt case. But what happened to Justin Baldoni, everyone should be reading those messages and realizing what the New York Times took part in, because we’re seeing this happen over and over again where the media, the journalists are acting like assassins. These are assassinations. You’re going to hit someone, you’re going to hit their entire career.

Media Hit Pieces and Their Consequences

TUCKER CARLSON: They’re called hit pieces.

CANDACE OWENS: They’re called hit pieces for a reason. Because most people cannot survive them. Matt Lauer did not survive it. I didn’t know he moved to New Zealand.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, he did.

CANDACE OWENS: He did not survive it. Michael Jackson, to this day, you don’t know the facts of Michael Jackson’s case. You know, “Do you think he did it?” Blah, blah, blah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I would say 100% he did. I mean, I don’t know anything.

CANDACE OWENS: Right, but that’s the point. You don’t know anything, but the media makes you think you do enough that you can have an assessment, which I was like you. “Michael Jackson’s guilty. Guilty. I totally believe that.”

TUCKER CARLSON: Look at the guy. He had plastic surgery. He must be a child molester.

CANDACE OWENS: Harvey Weinstein was guilty.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: Enough noise from the media. And we just don’t even look for facts anymore. And I want people who watch my show to be trained in recognizing those patterns, when actually they’re saying a lot, but they’re not really saying much. You are watching a team of trained assassins take someone out. For what reason? I don’t know. Then we can come up with conspiracy. But that’s what this is.

They’re ignoring facts. Because if they had presented the facts, none of us would have thought those things about Harvey Weinstein. We would have just said he’s a creep who abused his power and he should step down. Because nobody who’s running a company should be sleeping with all these women and cheating on his wife.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s morally wrong.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Not criminally wrong.

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s interesting how you select your stories. It’s non-ideological.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Your interest seems to be, is it true or not?

The Epstein Investigation and Israel Connection

CANDACE OWENS: It’s principled. I don’t care how you vote. I don’t care if you give to the ADL. I’m on their list. I’m literally on the ADL’s list. And Harvey Weinstein’s one of their biggest donors. Doesn’t matter to me. Do I think he did this thing? Why does it matter? Because my sons have to grow up in that world. I have three sons. So, yeah, I have a stake in this.

We can’t just have women going to the New York Times and making allegations. It was also New York Times with Harvey Weinstein. They were awarded Pulitzers. And we can’t just have this happening. We can’t have people having their lives ruined by the press absent any facts. And so there are tons of people that come to me and want me to take on their stories. And I try to take on as many as I can.

Right now I’m obviously very much interested in the Epstein case. And so that’s where I’m focusing my attention. The Epstein case and what do you think that was?

TUCKER CARLSON: The Epstein case?

CANDACE OWENS: I would say Israel, obviously. And again, I’m so tired of us being gaslit. It’s the dumbest gaslighting of all time. On record, okay? When Pam Bondi said, I just can’t even. This was just a moment where I was like, okay, F you. You guys hate us. You don’t even. You have so much power. Why don’t you just come out and say, “nana, boo, boo. You can’t touch us. F you.” I would rather you do that. Right?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: Then put on this pretend intense of a conference. And then you’ve got Trump over here being like, “does anybody still care about Jeffrey Epstein?” And then Pam Bondi is asked the question, “was he working for another country?” And she says, “we don’t know.” Right, you don’t know.

So in my series, I’m like, maybe we can help them. Maybe we can help the deep State figure out who Jeffrey Epstein was working for. Here is Ari Ben Manash, who was a MOSSAD agent who is also on record literally recorded. Let’s listen to him. Tell us about how Jeffrey Epstein was working for the Mossad. Okay. Ari Ben Minaj worked for Mossad, saying that Robert Maxwell brought him to Jeffrey Epstein and said, “let this guy in, he’s going to be involved in weapons.” Hey, Pam Bondi, you might have missed this one. Okay, you might have missed this one.

Then you go to another person who is on record, who is Victor Ostrovsky, who defected from the Mossad, notoriously the Mossad, admits he worked for the Mossad. He wrote the book “By Way of Deception.” He says that’s the Mossad motto, which they obviously do that. That’s why they execute all these false flags. And he told everybody the truth. He has said Jeffrey Epstein was working with us.

So for whatever reason, Candace Owens is able to determine whether or not Jeffrey Epstein might have been working for another state. But Pam Bondi, they’re just going to have to keep surmising about whether or not Jeffrey Epstein, who is with Ghislaine Maxwell, her father being Robert Maxwell. One of the biggest lies, by the way, that’s told, and I debunked this in our first or our third Epstein episode, is the idea that, “oh well, yeah, Robert Maxwell, they admit he was a Mossad agent, but Epstein didn’t know him.”

The story they try to tell now in fashion to the public is like Ghislaine and Jeffrey Epstein met after her dad was dead. That’s just false. Again, Ari Ben Minash tells the story of being brought into the office and being told that Epstein was going to be brought in. This was the Iran Contra scandal. So since the 80s, Jeffrey Epstein has been working for Israel. I don’t know how I know that. And Trump and Pam Bondi don’t. But they got to bring me in. I might have some evidence here, right? It’s like, so it’s. We’re getting to a point now.

TUCKER CARLSON: You’re going to have tough confirmation hearings.

CANDACE OWENS: I just want them to say F you. Seriously, that would feel better at this point if they just came out and said, “F you, Nana Boo Boo. You can’t touch us. We rule over you. Haha.” That would feel at least authentic. Going back to the Taylor Swift thing, I’d be like, I really don’t like that. But at least it’s authentic and I know you mean it and it’s true.

The Future of Truth and Government Control

TUCKER CARLSON: All totally fair. Does any of this come out? I mean, to the extent that we can project forward and guess. Does any of this come out? I mean, to a greater extent than it has. I mean, do. Is there ever a public resolution of this story?

CANDACE OWENS: No. Because Israel’s controlling our government. So no. The answer is no. Trump is powerless against him. We haven’t had. I don’t think we’ve been a sovereign nation since they shot JFK. And when I say they, it’s like people online say, “what do you mean by they?” I’m talking about Israel. I don’t want you guys to be reading between. I’m talking about Israel.

So let’s stop making that a taboo subject because they’ve gone mask down. Everything they’re doing is demonic. I want nothing to do with it. I will never support Israel into the future after what they’ve done to these children, the starvation campaign. I don’t care. Please write your article. You’ve already written them all. I don’t know what you could add. Right. About me, but I do not support Israel.

And I don’t think that Jewish Americans should support Israel. And I hope that they’re now having those conversations. I see many of them recognizing that they have been propagandized into believing they have to support this demonic state. And that’s in large part thanks to their Birthright trip.

Yeah, that mask down moment for Jonathan Greenblatt of the ADL when he got caught on the hot mic, it was released. He didn’t know that he was being recorded. And he’s saying that they’ve got to get TikTok under control. He’s like, “we have a generational issue with TikTok. We need to do something about this. Like what we did with Birthright.” What does that tell you?

That the entire purpose of that Birthright trip, telling every Jewish American you get a free trip to Israel, was to propagandize you into believing that you have some affinity with this made up country in the Middle East in 1948, that you have to react when something’s happening to them or you have to look away when they’re doing things that are so obviously wrong and demonic.

And so I’m hoping now that we’re getting to that point where people can recognize that whether you’re black, you don’t have to agree with BLM, whether you’re Jewish. Allowing your identity to shape your morality is problematic. Okay. And Israel in and of itself is a demonic nation. I will never support Israel. Right. So I went from working for Prager to I will never support Israel. So that’s how much the scales have fallen from my eyes about what they are involved in.

And if this isn’t your wake up call to just look at the footage of what they are doing, they’re playing Hunger Games and throwing food at them and then killing people and seeing who survives. I mean, it’s just at your fingertips. You have to take a look at what Israel is doing.

Universal Standards vs. Identity-Based Morality

TUCKER CARLSON: Your point that if you allow your identity to determine your morality is a very detailed, deep, and I think, important point that I’ve never heard anybody put it that way. But it does feel like we’re moving toward a world in which all ethics are situational. And it all depends on who I am and who my tribe is and what my identity is.

And there isn’t, to the extent there used to be a sense of universal standards that apply to everyone, otherwise known as principles, you clearly operate by those principles. What does that accelerate? Or do we return to a moment where we can say, “oh no, there are universal standards of behavior. Truth is an unchanging thing.” Whether we have it or not is debatable, but there is something called truth. There is an actual reality. Or does AI just make all of it?

CANDACE OWENS: I think the people that were fighting wish that AI could make everything. I am troubled by AI. I’m troubled by people believing that AI is smart. It’s obviously dumb. It requires you not to read books and to believe that everything it spins out, which is really just. They’re scraping the Internet. Right. That’s all it’s doing.

TUCKER CARLSON: Derivative.

CANDACE OWENS: Which then gives the power to the same people in New York Times. It’s like they’re just scraping the trusted sources and telling you this is a fact when it’s not a fact. But I very much believe that something is happening globally right now, spiritually. I think me even surviving last year is proof of that. Obviously, if lies were well and not just surviving.

TUCKER CARLSON: I should point out, since you’re not a braggart. I mean, thriving in a way that nobody would have predicted. As measured by your numbers on your podcast, as measured by your family output. Now you’re the mother of four. I don’t even know how you have a baby in the middle of all that. But you did. You’re thriving.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: Which is amazing. I never would have guessed that ever.

The Spiritual Test and Choosing Truth

CANDACE OWENS: I hope that people take away from me living through it and surviving and coming out the other side is that it isn’t worth your soul to tell a lie. Tell the truth. And that seems harder. That certainly in that moment of temptation, feels harder when you’re being promised the world. If you just don’t say this thing, everything will stay the same. If you just pretend like you don’t see what’s happening in Gaza, you can have your life the way that you like it.

That is, in my viewpoint, that is being tempted by Satan. That really is. And that is why they want you to be attached to money, Right? That is why they don’t even know how to try to destroy me outside of saying, “we’re going to financially crush you, right? We’re going to keep you in lawsuits. We’re going to sue you. I’m going to sue you for $8 billion.” Because there’s no truth in these people. Money is all that is the only motor. That’s their only real power.

And so I hope that when people, the millions of people that listen to my podcast every single day, that they get that there is something way bigger than that, way higher authority to that. And when you commit yourself to truth, right, what is Jesus? Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. Right? I think that once you get through that temptation, you are rewarded. If you do the right thing, if you do the moral thing and you do the principal thing, you’re being tested.

We’re all being tested right now. That’s what I truly believe. We’re all being tested. And a lot of people are failing that test, but a lot of people aren’t. Right? Strange bedfellows. You had Anna Kasparian on this show, and I’ve been saying for a while that I liked her because I perceived that she was being authentic even when I disagreed with her.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, she’s authentic. Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: I was like, I disagree with her, and she’s been terrible to me. But I perceive that she’s being authentic. And we’re seeing that happen. It’s a good thing. It’s a good thing that the left and the right are coming together on this topic and that it doesn’t matter if you’re black or you’re white. And so in that way, yeah, Israel. What’s like, Israel has been a blessing because I think for the first time, the entire world is in lockstep realizing something is very wrong, that this is allowed to happen in broad daylight and no one is stopping it.

Global Spiritual Awakening

TUCKER CARLSON: When you say you see something happening globally, on the spiritual level. What do you mean?

CANDACE OWENS: What I mean by that is I can. And obviously I’m looking at my own metrics here, but we have people committed to watching my show all over the world. Using VPNs to watch this show all over the world. And as I, because I don’t view myself as an authority, I’m learning with them. I think that’s what they enjoy about my show is I’m not like Jake Tapper sitting up here telling you she’s deranged. I’m actually saying we’re not getting answers here.

TUCKER CARLSON: And something is the word deranged.

CANDACE OWENS: Six times in the first minute.

TUCKER CARLSON: Deranged.

CANDACE OWENS: Deranged. Six times in the first minute. It was glorious. It was so funny.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s like a clinical diagnosis.

CANDACE OWENS: I mean, come on.

TUCKER CARLSON: Have you seen a doctor?

The Power of Truth and Questioning

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, yeah. You know who taught that theory of just diagnosing it? Yeah. Sigmund Freud. There we go. So I recognize what you’re doing. I read the book. I read the book. You won’t grok AI me. I know what you guys are about. Yeah. If you’re telling the truth, just diagnose it. But, yeah, I guess that’s what they do. They diagnose it.

But, yeah, I think we are seeing all around the world, people are kind of waking up to that and they’re responding to it, and they tried to crush it. They try to crush you. You’re lucky you’re not an ex. Because all they do is try to crush. You’re trending all the time over the most mundane things.

I love their hatred of Daryl Cooper. I love it. Because when you see him, he’s like a nice historian, and he really is, but the world can see that, right? So that’s why it works. That’s why you say, you asked me the question, why do you have so much joy? Because it is funny. Right? And I think that my joy makes him even angrier because I think it’s so ridiculous.

You’re trying to sell to me that this guy Daryl Cooper is the second coming of Adolf. Like, that’s funny. And then it makes people curious because you’re going, he’s so clearly not. So what is it that he’s hit upon that has you guys so triggered? It’s got to be a truth. Let me keep digging.

And yeah, as soon as you start asking any questions about The World War II narrative, which has been decided in our textbooks, which were printed by Robert Maxwell. Okay, let’s just forgetting it’s not our Epstein series. You know, who prints the textbook is king. You start asking other questions, right? How has my mind been shaped since I was a child? Why do I feel this way? Why do I have an emotional response to these things that I don’t understand? And that was set up for you.

We were set up to not ask questions about certain things. And so now they’re arriving at their final point, and this is why I love it so much, is that we’ve now forced them into a corner where their legitimate argument, as if it couldn’t get more absurd, is that we have to just stop asking questions. Right? “You’re not just asking questions.” This is their new thing. “You’re not just asking questions. Why are you asking questions? Say what you really mean.”

They’re the ones that are so clearly undone that we can’t even ask questions.

TUCKER CARLSON: The funny thing is, I actually am asking questions.

CANDACE OWENS: We all are.

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t really understand a lot of things, right?

CANDACE OWENS: We all are. We’re reading and we’re learning, and that scares them. So what does that tell you when exploring and learning and true education outside of the public school system terrifies them? What does it tell you? That they’re hiding something. They’re lying about something.

You think I would be scared if you were asking questions and I knew the answers to them? I’d be like, yeah, no, here you can come examine this a thousand times. You’re lying about something, and the whole world can see that. So, yeah, I’d be pretty upset if I were you too, because you have been on the side of the author of lies.

The Nature of Lies and Fear

TUCKER CARLSON: Liars are afraid and weak. As I said, brittle. And you can just feel it. And I’ve experienced it. I’ve lied. And the second you lie, you’re afraid. Well, you’re afraid, of course, the lie being exposed. But I think the fear is deeper than that. I think it weakens you.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And it makes you look ridiculous.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s exactly right. It’s humiliating. So we do have a lot of our subscribers were very excited that you were coming. Very excited. I feel like we have some overlap. So they sent in a million questions. We hit you with a couple of them. They’re actually good questions. Here’s one. I don’t know if you can even answer this. What do you think of the Daily Wire now that you’ve been gone for a while?

Reflections on the Daily Wire

CANDACE OWENS: I think I wish the best to the Daily Wire. I wouldn’t have changed. I wouldn’t change a single thing about what happened, how it went down in the moment. It seems so crazy, but I think in every action, people get to see who you are and what you’re made of. And the Daily Wire got to tell their story, and I got to tell people mine.

TUCKER CARLSON: So you get. I mean, you were a big deal, obviously, at the Daily Wire, a little bigger than we realized. When you left, we found out what a big deal you were. So no one wants to lose a job where they’re succeeding. But in retrospect, do you feel like that was part of a larger plan?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, God’s plan, for sure. And now with the things and the discussions that I’m having with my viewers, there’s no way I could have been at the Daily Wire. Just wouldn’t have worked. You know, worked for a bit. Little bit. And then it suddenly was not working. And now definitively, we would not be a good match. And at the end of the day, I just don’t view myself as in competition with the Daily Wire. I am interested in totally different things.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you’re a lot bigger than the Daily Wire just on the numbers. You’re much bigger than the Daily Wire.

CANDACE OWENS: And I think that’s in part because removing the Daily Wire as the conduit to my ideas was a good thing. I got to. I don’t have to have a bunch of people as it is at any corporation. “Can you talk about that topic? Is it okay? What are the lawyers think?”

TUCKER CARLSON: Right. That’s right.

CANDACE OWENS: Got to remove all that, and I get to go right to my audience. So I’m grateful.

TUCKER CARLSON: And you don’t have to take credit or blame for what others on that channel do. But I felt this way working for big companies. It was like, “I can’t believe I hate your company,” or “I love your company.” It’s like I. And it’s not exactly connected to me. I mean, I work there, but.

CANDACE OWENS: Exactly. And I was. I’m definitely somebody that I think I thrive when I get to just truly say and express myself entirely exactly how I feel every second of every day. And I’m interested in so many different topics. And it was getting increasingly difficult to kind of explore things that I was interested in without having to worry about whether it would upset this person or that person or have a legal person felt about this.

And at that point, you’re not having fun. Then it becomes a job. Right. It always was a job, but then it becomes a job, meaning that you’re waking up every day and you’re like, and now I wake up every day and I’m thrilled and I’m researching and I’m learning with my audience. So I’m happier. I hope the Daily Wire is happier. And that’s it.

Facing Threats and Fear

TUCKER CARLSON: And this is another question. Do you ever fear that something that people want to harm you?

CANDACE OWENS: I know people want to harm me, so I don’t have to fear it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Fair.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. In case you missed it, a guy tried to kill me last year. Contact about the FBI. So there’s nothing to fear. Is embrace that. That people are deranged and people are crazy. And of course people want to harm me. Do I fear it? No, because I don’t fear death.

And I think that that is the true challenge of being a Christian. I asked myself this question when there are so many people who purport to be Christians and they won’t say things that they know are true or they actually say things that they know to be false because they’re fearful of losing their jobs. Right.

And if you are responding or you’re behaving in a certain way or not saying something because you’re fearful of something like the moment right now. Do you believe in the afterlife? Do you believe in Christ? Do you know that you’re actually not just trying to get paid by a check, but also trying to get into heaven? Right. That’s the bigger thing. So I go for the bigger thing.

And, yeah, I know that no matter what, I will be okay. My husband makes sure that. He says the number one goal is to make sure that all of us are getting into heaven.

TUCKER CARLSON: So this is not the end.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Yeah.

Advice for President Trump

TUCKER CARLSON: Last question. Do you have advice for the president, whom you know, you said you spoke by phone. I know you’ve been a supporter of his for a long time, but do you have advice for him now?

CANDACE OWENS: Yes. My advice to him would be my advice to very many people who I’ve seen become very big and then get very small or have their supporters turn on them, which is don’t ever get to the point where you think you’re smarter than your audience.

And I think that for Trump right now, and I’m speaking specifically about the gaslighting of are we still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? And then saying, “I don’t want any supporters that are still into this,” that means that you see yourself as a king and you’ve stopped listening you’re not responding to the movement anymore.

And what made us get behind you was that despite the fact that we knew you were this boisterous billionaire, was that you had a way of communicating with and understanding how people felt. Right. The blue collar worker, how that person felt, the person that’s listening to you, the truck driver, the plumbers.

And when you respond with, “Well, I don’t want your support” or gaslighting, you know, you’ve lost touch a little bit with your audience. Just don’t ever think that you’re smarter than your audience. I’m constantly getting feedback from my audience and trying to figure out what they’re interested in and how I can be better, even if slight tweaks of things like, “Oh, I don’t like the way the audio sounds,” or this. And they like that. They know, because then they know that you care. And I do care.

And I think that Trump’s message over the last few weeks with the Epstein Fumble, as I’m going to refer to it as, makes people think that he doesn’t care. And I think he does care, so he should change that.

Finding Peace and Joy

TUCKER CARLSON: I think that’s very wise advice. I think that’s the wisest advice you could give. Not surprisingly, got kids. So my last question is, what is. Because I do. I was thinking about you and my son this morning. You do have an obvious peace and joy about you. It’s just obvious. It’s not fake. It’s just with you and your husband and your youngest child off camera, and it’s totally real. What is your spiritual practice?

Faith and Marriage: A Divine Journey

CANDACE OWENS: Well, we’re Catholic. My family’s Catholic. When George and I first got married, I was not Catholic. I was Protestant. And to see just God’s design and everything and how me and George met and how he then was so drawn back into his faith like he was.

I would definitely say he was not a practicing Catholic when we got married, or else he would have told me that I had to convert before we got married, actually, because he’s that deep into the faith now. But our marriage has brought us closer to faith. And I made the decision not knowing how all this is going to play out, but to become baptized into the Catholic Church.

And it’s just interesting how there’s so there is a divine aspect to everything that’s happening, the timing of everything. I never question God’s timing, even when things seem terrible, right when the whole world is rooting for you to fail, saying, “she’s canceled and it’s over.”

Surviving Cancel Culture Through Faith

The reason why I survived it and the reason why I’m happy is because I have real faith. And also because I know that that’s just a veneer that’s been created for us. The idea that your media and that if the New York Times can take you out, you don’t have enough substance in your life.

They can’t threaten me because they haven’t created anything that’s real in my life. They don’t have no control over anything that’s real in my life. And if you think I care about a headline, I couldn’t care less about a headline. You’re going to try to get me canceled from speaking at an event like, okay, they’re probably serving rubber chicken anyways. If that goes through, great, amazing.

And that’s not going to be enough of a threat for me to give up speaking truth because, and this is the part that I really want to get to because it’s super important for people to hear this.

Courage and Legacy: Fighting for Our Children

I’m encouraged when people say that I give them courage. Right? That’s the greatest thing. That’s the greatest compliment that I can receive that they were quiet about something and now they are vocal about it because they realize it matters.

Our children are going to inherit the world that we allow them to inherit. So if we decide to become creatures of pleasure and creatures of social media and creatures of a lack of focus and ultimately creatures of fear and cowardice, they will inherit the world that we’ve left behind for them.

It’s so important to stand up for what’s right. Because your children, if you don’t step to the demons, those demons are only going to grow more powerful.

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s right.

CANDACE OWENS: And your children are going to be the ones that suffer it. Right? So the question is, do you care enough about it to protect your children? To moms and dads, right? When you say, “I didn’t say the thing. So I just went along with the COVID thing.” You would allow them to poison your kids because you were just scared to say something.

And again, because we live in a society of pleasure and we live in the side. Everything’s so momentary and social media and a distraction. We’ve actually become a very weakened species.

The Influence of Strong Role Models

I am so driven by who my grandfather was. I always say this. People are like, “what’s up with this girl? Why she’s so happy?” I say, my grandfather blessed me, he spoiled me, and I just looked up, looked at him as such a man. Truly what it means to embody faith. His family, it was all that he cared about, faith, family.

And he could look you in the eye and do a deal on a handshake, right? If he said he was going to be there, he was going to be there. If he said he wasn’t going to be, he was going to do this, he was going to do that.

We need to go back to that. We’ve lost that in this society. Everyone’s so deceptive and sneaky and they don’t say what they mean. And there’s contracts and they’re tricky contracts and everyone’s leaking stuff to the press. It’s have some respect for yourself and for your family to be a better person and to speak up when something is wrong.

Closing Remarks

TUCKER CARLSON: Amen. I can’t improve on that. Candace Owens, thank you.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you so much.

TUCKER CARLSON: Taking all this time and congratulations. I think that you’re example, even if people disagree with you, I think they have to say this is a woman who’s purely sincere and I don’t think there’s a higher compliment.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you.

TUCKER CARLSON: Thank you so much.

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