TRANSCRIPT: How Joe Rogan Changed Media Forever, How Propaganda Fools People, & Advice to Trump: Tucker Carlson

Whatever. Those people lost. The people who live in Brookline and Bethesda and all the screechy people I deal with in airports, they lost. And I’m really glad.

JOE POLISH: Sorry. No, no, it’s great. Yeah, I love it.

Advice for America’s Leaders

JOE POLISH: So if you could advise America’s leaders on restoring the country, what would you suggest focusing on politically or spiritual changes?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, both those things. I mean, first of all, deemphasize the race stuff. That’s just total poison. Nobody talks about like in your in your life. You know, are you when no one’s around and you’re just with your spouse, your college roommate or your brother, your closest friends? Are you like mad about race? Probably not.

Most people don’t don’t spend their lives thinking about race or other people’s sex lives for that matter. They just don’t. And if our leaders encourage us to have yet another fake conversation about race, which is really just one person yelling at another person, that person having to take it like that does nothing but divide the country and makes people hate each other, which is, of course, their goal. So stop with that.

If you engender racial conflict in a population, it’s very hard to make that go away. Most Americans do not want that at all. They don’t see race versus just a fact. These are all facts. This is not a racist country. It’s a really nice country. It’s a country where people give directions to strangers and like taking stray dogs. It’s just people aren’t racist, actually.

And so stop with that stuff. Restore the colorblind meritocracy that we were promised. That is the basis of America. Innovation comes when the most energetic, smartest people are allowed to do their thing, when entrepreneurs are allowed to be entrepreneurial and artists are allowed to create art and writers are allowed to write literature. Elon’s allowed to build rockets. And it doesn’t matter what color they are, what gender they are. It just matters that they have the energy and the drive and the intelligence and the ability to organize sufficient to get that done. That’s just true.

And so dismantle the state, the kind of, I hate to say it, but they’re always calling Trump a Nazi, really? Is he the one who said every person in America has to identify by race, by bloodline? That’s sick. Like we rejected that actually in 1945 and we should reject it again and unleash the best within each one of us.

I mean, you build this monument to Martin Luther King on the mall. OK, let’s follow its precepts. Let’s judge each other by the content of our character, by what we do rather than how we were born. Like that is that is the promise of America.

And that we spend all this time taking care of gearing our education system to the people who learn the slowest. Maybe we should spend a little bit of time helping the people who learn the quickest. It can’t just be making every school dumber. What about like the smart kids who want to learn and want to create like they should be allowed to do that to just back off and let people do their thing and you will create an incredibly beautiful country and stop encouraging them to hate each other.

So that’s I mean, those are kind of vibe shifts. These are not specific policies. Those are the first two things I would do. Second, restore order to the world.

We again, I cannot overstate as someone who travels a lot internationally, how close to nuclear conflict the United States has been for the past three years, almost three years come February, like on the precipice of it. And because our media don’t report this, I think most Americans don’t really have a sense of it. But we are truly on the end on the edge of like ending human life globally. It’s crazy.

Nothing like this. Nothing as crazy as ever happened probably ever in history. And so the role of the United States, if the United States is going to be a global leader, not its policemen, but a leader, a force for good, it has to become what it once was, which is a force for order and stability, not endless revolution, which is what we’ve had. Let’s knock off the leader of that country and hope for the best.

Well, that didn’t work. You know, we killed Gaddafi. We killed Saddam. Those countries became worse than they were before. There are open slave markets in Tripoli, Libya. Let’s just ignore that. The same people who did that just move on. Let’s bump off Bashar al-Assad in Syria.

Let’s kill Putin and hope for the best. Stop, stop. No more revolutions. This is what the Soviet Union is to do. Run around the world trying to foment revolutions. Overthrow one government and hope that a better government would take its place. That’s not how life works, actually. It takes an awful long time to create something worth having.

Progress is incremental. Destruction is instant. I can smash a plate glass window in a second. Try to make one. You know how a plate glass window is made? It’s complicated, right? And that’s true for countries, too. So restore order.

The United States should be a force for order. No, we’re not going to blow up your natural gas pipeline, which we did to Germany. Destroy the German economy. Destroy the German economy.

I don’t know how many of you travel to Europe. Europe is Germany. The European economy is Germany. And that economy has been crushed by what we did. Stop doing things like that, okay? Reorient away from permanent revolution. And the lunatics are now running the State Department, beginning with the chief lunatic, who’s also stupid, Tony Blinken, all the way down the chain. Just reorient the whole thing.

Our job is to be paternal. If you’re a father, you come home, your kids are fighting. If your first instinct is to tell them to keep fighting, hit them harder! You’re a monster. You’re a moral criminal. You’re a bad dad. No, your instinct is consistent with your duty, which is to tell them to knock it off and make up. Make things better.

And so, you know, there are reports, and look, Trump is always, and he does a lot, I think, to feed this perception. You know, he’s often criticized as, you know, reckless or seat of the pants or whatever. But in fact, the opposite is true. I think it is being reported, like, in the last five minutes that one of the first things Trump did after winning was to speak to both Zelensky and Putin and to make it really clear that the net effect of this war in Ukraine has only been the total destruction of the nation of Ukraine.

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian men killed. Eastern Ukraine destroyed. I mean, really, just the elimination of a country, the biggest country in Europe, and sort of no one wins. Like, there’s been no upside to this at all. It’s been effectively a genocide against the Ukrainians. And we’re going to stop it now. We’re going to stop it. And he spoke to both of them.

That’s what a United States president should do. And this lunatic who’s been running our country for the past four years, like, hasn’t spoken to Putin once because he’s immoral. Really? Okay.

Immoral. Find a world leader who’s not immoral. What do leaders do? Well, a lot of them kill people. In fact, I’d say about 100% of them do. If they have enough power, they kill people who are in their way. That’s what they do. Sorry. I’m against that. That’s why I’m not a leader. But that’s the nature of global leadership. So it’s not a question of, you know, finding, like, a good person in charge of a large country. You’re not going to. There aren’t any. But you can find better people. And you can arrive critically at better outcomes.

And the better outcome is no more war. And Trump did that instantaneously. And I think it’s going to work. That’s worth voting for him alone. If you voted for Trump and, you know, there are people in your life who are like, “I can’t believe you voted for that guy. He’s a rapist.” Okay. First of all, who do you rape exactly? “Oh, lots of people.” Really? What are their names? And why hasn’t he been charged? Shut up. Um, actually, what are you even talking about? Stop with that. Don’t accuse someone of rape.

Like, what? Stop. Stop talking like that. Running around accusing people of things, of crimes, of felonies without any evidence. Like, what’s your name? They can’t answer. It’s the whole thing’s nuts. Stop lecturing me. Adults, people who run countries, the first thing they do is try and stop pointless wars. They don’t foment pointless wars. They end them. And Trump just did that. So if you voted for Trump on that basis alone, you should be proud of what you did, in my opinion.

Interviewing Putin

JOE POLISH: So you have, uh, you’ve interviewed so many people. I mean, recently, Elon Musk. I mean, you interviewed Putin earlier in the year. What was that experience like?

TUCKER CARLSON: It was great. It was super interesting. And I should just say that when I interview somebody, obviously, I’m endorsing everything that person’s ever done.

You know, you really, it does really go back to the American media where I’ve spent my entire life. I’m the son of a journalist. I grew up around it. So that makes it 55 years I’ve been around this.

And its current state is just, it’s almost beyond description in how low and poisonous and dishonest it is. I’m just ashamed to be a part of it. No, I mean, of course you would want to interview. You know, your default, if your job is to interview people, is to interview the most powerful people in the world, the most significant people in the world.

And the point of those interviews is to ask them obvious questions and then let the public in your country, in my case, it’s the United States, decide what they think. That’s my job. And so the idea that you wouldn’t interview somebody because the State Department doesn’t like him or the senile guy in charge of the country has declared war on him without a congressional resolution, that the government doesn’t want you to interview. I don’t care what the government wants.

I’m an American citizen. I can talk to anybody I want to. And moreover, I can have any opinion I want to. That’s my birthright. And that’s why I don’t live in Sri Lanka, okay, or North Korea or any other country. I’m American, okay? That’s what it is to be American. So I’m not being defensive.

I actually don’t care that the New York Times called me a Putin lover. Anyone who believes New York Times is like, okay, good luck. But it’s just a little bit bewildering that nobody else wanted to interview Putin because what the CIA tells you, you’re not supposed to want to. If the CIA tells me I’m not supposed to want to do something, and they certainly made that very clear to me, that makes me want to do it more.

That’s my job. And if you find yourself, like on the set of Morning Joe, taking orders from the intel agencies, then maybe you should just go work for the intel agencies. Maybe you should admit that to your viewers. Well, you know, today’s program is brought to you by the NSA because effectively it is.

And the intel agencies have a much greater role in American news coverage than most news consumers understand. I would say that virtually any news consumers understand. And I’ve seen it, you know, for over 30 years. So I’m very familiar with it.

But it’s absolutely crazy that no one has stopped it. And I’m praying, it’s very hard to stop it, by the way. I’m praying that Donald Trump will. I mean, that’s on a long to-do list, but I would say near the top, you have to, if you want to restore democracy, which you don’t currently really have, the lefties are right about that.

They don’t want it. I do want it. I actually like democracy because I think it’s my country. I was born here. I’m an owner of this system. I’m not a renter or a serf. But if you want to restore it, you have to prevent the government from using your tax dollars to lie to you. Because if you have that system, which we currently have, trust me, I can speak with authority on this, then you don’t have a democracy because you don’t even know what reality is.

In other words, the people in charge are deciding what you can know about what they’re doing. Well, that’s a rigged system by its nature. How is that not a rigged system? How is that democracy?

It’s not. It’s an oligarchy of the worst kind. And I just don’t think people in this country understand the degree to which the information that they received over their Google machines or from NBC News or from the last of the dying newspapers, they don’t understand just how filtered that information is. You have no idea what’s going on in the rest of the world if you’re only getting your news in this country.

You have no idea what the candidates are really like. It’s really crazy. We have an ongoing debate in my office because we travel a lot. Does the average North Korean peasant have a better idea of what’s happening in the world than the average person in a suburb of Boston? Maybe. It’s actually open to debate. Like, that’s how filtered it is. And so the first step toward fixing it is admitting that you have the problem.

Let’s stop pretending. You know, if you can’t even go interview Putin, who’s engaged in a war in the middle of Europe, if you’re discouraged from doing that and the U.S. government tried to stop me from doing that by breaking into my Signal account and leaking it to the New York Times, they got caught.

They admitted it. If that’s allowed, no one was ever fired for it. The New York Times didn’t rise to my defense. Hey, you can’t use an intel agency to prevent a journalist from doing his job. No, it’s totally fine. Man, it’s a really, really rotten system. And it’s the basis of all we know. How do you know what’s happening in the world?

How do you know what reality is? Because you see it on your phone. So you have to have honest sources of information, or at least a diversity of sources of information. You don’t have to trust any one source, but you got to have a choice. It can’t all just be, you know, Mika Brzezinski telling you what happened yesterday because, whoa, not good.

Where to Get Accurate Information

JOE POLISH: So you’ve been in, oh man, media and TV for, I mean, your life. Since August of 1991. Wow. What advice would you have on where, what to, where to get, what to listen to, where to get a diverse or accurate, non-propagandized sort of education?

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s pretty hard. I mean, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gone so crazy and obviously I wouldn’t recommend this to other people, but I don’t read any news at all, ever, period.

I don’t read any of it. I was in it too long. I know how poisoned it is. It’s like watching a, you know, sometimes you meet nurses who are the most honest people in hospitals, in my experience. And they’ll, they’ll tell you like, oh man, don’t get any, you know, cardiac catheter at that hospital. They’ll kill you. You’d probably believe the nurse, like she works there. And that’s how I feel about media. Like I know how it works. And so I don’t read any of it. I get all my information from people via text message. I travel a ton to see things firsthand because there’s no replacing that.

But the advice that I would, I give my own children on this question is go with your gut. Like, I actually think we have a much more accurate sort of internal measuring system for truth than we understand. Like, you know, when someone’s lying to you, you’re born with that ability to discern truth from lie. Now it’s, it’s, it’s unerring, but it’s imprecise.

In other words, if I feel someone’s lying to me, he is, that person’s lying. It was like, my dogs know. Like if you show up at my house and you’re creepy, my dogs have no idea what you’re saying. They don’t need to know. They know you’re creepy and they’ll snarl at you. And then I know you’re creepy because my dogs have already vetted you. All of us, no, and I mean it, and you’re not welcome for dinner at that point. I don’t know what you did, but it’s gross.

All of us, no, yeah, I’m not joking at all. Yeah. Sorry, sorry, you failed this manual test. I’ll see you. Good luck, freak. All of us have the very same ability. Our instincts are our most honest guide because your instincts are designed only to help you. They’re not trying to sell you anything.

They’re not trying to get elected to anything. They’re not trying to scam you. They’re not selling you a timeshare anywhere. They’re merely trying to protect you and inform you.

And so much of the information that we take in sort of bypasses the five senses that science tell us are the sum total of our intelligence gathering apparatuses. I mean, that’s like a total crock. Intuition is not technically a sense because science is like a joke. Actually, it doesn’t fully describe the human experience or even close to it.

It’s absurd. It lacks imagination. It’s a scam, I would say, obviously. But we have been trained to believe that our senses are somehow less valid than things that we read on Wikipedia, which is totally controlled by the CIA.

And the truth is the opposite is right. If you’re listening to someone speak and that person seems deceptive, do not believe that person. Period. Tim Walz comes out, who ran with Kamala Harris. I don’t know if you remember Tim Walz. And I saw Tim Walz and I’m like, I don’t, you know, I’m not going to indict him. I was like, that guy’s a creep. Just flat out.

I’m sorry. He is. And I’m not calling the U.S. attorney trying to get him indicted or anything, because I don’t have evidence. But I just knew instantly that guy’s lying to me. And I think we all sort of know that. You know, you can just tell.

And so like when the media came out and said, you know, the Nord Stream pipeline got blown up, the biggest natural gas pipeline in the world, which fed the economy of Germany, of Europe, of the EU, our NATO ally. And it got blown up. And they’re like, yeah, Putin did it. Putin did it, really.

He blew up his own natural gas pipeline. Why did he do that? Well, because he’s evil. So you’re telling me that Putin is so evil that he attacked himself because he just couldn’t, he couldn’t help himself. Like he ran out of people to stab. So he just started stabbing himself in the face. Is that what you’re telling me? That’s just the nature of evil.

Yeah, that’s what we’re telling you. Shut up, you’re lying. Like I knew instantly that they were lying. Instantly they were lying. And I, and by the way, I had the privilege of saying so. It was not welcomed by my bosses. I got fired in the end. But, but I said, that’s a lie. You’re lying. Oh, how do you know we’re lying? Well, because it doesn’t make any sense. And also your lips are moving and you’re a liar.

And I know that you are. So shut up. Oh, you shut up, you Putin stooge. Okay. Thanks, son. You’re still lying. And that turned out to be a really good guy. And then, of course, we learned later, we blew up the Nord Stream Pipeline, obviously.

TUCKER CARLSON: And now we’re blaming on Ukrainians, whoever’s found even an interesting conversation. But Putin did not blow up the Nord Stream Pipeline. We now admit that it was a lie. It was very clearly a lie.

And we’re in my old job. Someone said to me, well, how’d you know that? Could you have inside Intel? It’s like, no. Sitting in my living room in Maine, you know, looking at it on my, on my iPhone. I’m like, that’s just BS. And I felt totally empowered. I think what made me different from others was I felt totally empowered to say so.

I don’t feel any obligation to go along with that. Like, why would I? Don’t be intimidated. I guess that’s kind of what I’m saying. Don’t be intimidated. If something doesn’t make sense, say, well, hold on, pal. You know, I don’t get what, you know, what is that? So you become a woman by saying so?

Like, what are the mechanics of that? Does it change your DNA? Shut up, transphobe. No, okay, great. But how does that work? Speak slowly so I can understand or whatever. It doesn’t even matter what the claim is. If it doesn’t make sense to you and the person telling you can’t explain it, then they’re lying about it or they don’t understand it themselves, which is the same thing.

Don’t accept that. And if, by the way, if the whole society refuses to accept that, if the whole society refuses to lie, it’s like, just make the decision. You’re not going to intimidate me into lying. And in my case, I’m like, I’m an adult middle-aged man. I pay my taxes. I’ve got four kids. Why would I go along with your bullshit? No, I’m not. Period. Under no circumstances. And I don’t want to fight about it, but I’m not going to go along with it. Oh, the vax is safe and effective?

Okay, well, I’m not taking it. How’s that? Why don’t you make me? And, you know, how about no? And if you’re a father, like, you’re in the how about no business. That’s your job. I’ve done a lot of how about nos, but no one’s offended. You’re just like, how about no?

No, we’re not doing that. No, we’re not getting some weird dog crossed with a poodle. I don’t think so. What? Everyone’s getting typos. No, how about no? Okay. It, like, works pretty well. And no one needs to take it. I’m sorry not to attack the poodle mixes, but I don’t want one, you know. And we’ve had that conversation quite a bit in my house. No.

Okay. And I think you can kind of cheerfully say no to a lot of the demands made on you. And they’ll get all hysterical and call you names. And it’s like, no, no. And I think if enough people do that, maybe, like, I don’t know, 200 million of them. All of a sudden, it just stops. You’re like, okay, I guess we won’t get the shih tzu poodle mix. You know what I mean?

Damn, maybe next time. Okay, on to the next thing. So I do hope that the next time there is this very familiar cycle where some story will happen. You know, some guy tries to pass a fake 20 in a convenience store in Minneapolis and then dies of a drug OD outside.

And all of a sudden, they take that story and tell you that actually it’s your fault that he died and we need to completely change the country that your ancestors built. And everyone kind of goes along with it. And all the preachers on TV and Nikki Haley and all the people here with the sort of respect are like, yeah, we need a revolution because George Floyd died. I think at this point, or, you know, there’s some virus comes out of China, very clearly came from a lab that we funded.

And really early, we learned the death rates, like one tiny fraction of what they claim it is. And on the basis of that, they’re going to give us some drug by force that hasn’t been tested. And by the way, you can’t sue because the Congress granted the company that makes the drug total immunity from lawsuits. I think more people would be like, how about now?

Go ahead and take that if you want. I’m like, whatever. That’s your thing. You want to go inject yourself with some weird crap? That’s fine. But I’m not doing that. And I’m just not under any circumstances doing that. And I read the autopsy report.

And George Floyd, like 100,000 other Americans this year, died of a fentanyl OD. And I feel super bad for George Floyd. I’m not defending his death. I feel sad about his death, just as I do about the other 100,000 who died from. But don’t tell me that systemic racism killed George Floyd because it didn’t. I’m not going to accept any more of your lies. I don’t care what you call me. I don’t care how much you threaten me.

I’m not afraid of you at all because I have no reason to be afraid because you’re a freaking loser who’s never built anything in your life. So how dare you lecture me? I’m an adult man. Back off. That’s a really good posture. A super helpful. It’s a non-belligerent posture. You don’t need to get your AR-15, though.

You should have one. But you don’t need to, like, wave it around to be like, for my cold, dead hands. Maybe it’ll get to that. But you don’t right now need to do that at all. Just like sort of cheerful. No, no fentanyl OD. Not taking the vax. You know, sorry.

That works.

Immunity for Vaccine Makers and Congress

JOE POLISH: So I asked you about nurses and people in situations where they were put under pressure or propagandized so much that they had no choice or they would lose their job and single mothers. And what what do you think is going to happen with these people? What do you hope to see happen?

The ones that I’d love to really have you explain how propaganda works.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, what’s going to happen is and I have a relative involved in one of these suits was a commercial airline pilot. He just texted me on the flight out here that there was apparently a resolution of jury in Michigan just awarded a woman fired for not taking the vax millions of dollars. And I hope that that is a nationwide trend where everyone whose life was destroyed in that fit of lies and hysteria is made whole.

I really hope so. And I do hope that Congress can immediately strip the blanket immunity from the vaccine makers. I don’t understand that. I’ve sold products my whole life.

I mean, imagine you have a product. You convince politicians to force the population to buy your product. Anyone who complains gets fired and you can’t be sued. I’m sorry. And I’m not attacking vaccines, by the way. I’m sure there are fine vaccines. I don’t know. I’m not taking any of them, but it’s OK if other people do.

I’m not mad about people taking vaccines. I’m not mad about vaccines, but that’s a scam. And anyone who says it’s not a scam can just explain to me how it’s not a scam. How is that not a scam? You’re not allowed to sue. You can sue anybody for anything in this country, anything. So I don’t have playgrounds anymore because people made slot. Remember merry-go-rounds?

Remember those? Is anyone old enough to remember a merry-go-round? They don’t exist. They were awesome.

I’d like 10 friends who have fewer teeth than they were born with because of merry-go-rounds, but they have stronger spirits because they were great. They don’t exist anymore because the trial bar decided we’re going to get rich suing merry-go-round makers and people who are nice enough to build playgrounds. It’s like so many good things in American life have been eliminated by the greed of the trial bar. By the way, next time in the Caribbean, go down to the yacht basin wherever you are.

It doesn’t matter what island you are. And look at the biggest boats and just ask the boat guys and the matching polo shirts with the yacht names on them. What does the owner of this boat do for a living? And just keep a list of how many of them are trial lawyers. Like a lot. You know, it was a tobacco settlement or asbestos or whatever. It was talcum powder or whatever case they were. And I’m not attacking all lawyers, though I want to because I do hate them with a passion.

But even if I liked lawyers, I would say, how is it that there’s this one category that’s exempt from the risk that all the rest of us who are involved in any kind of business face every single… I have liability insurance on my house in case the UPS guy slips delivering a package from Amazon. But somehow Albert Bourla and all the other creepy, creepy billionaires who run these disgusting pharma companies are in no danger of being sued because their corrupt pals in Congress in 1986 gave them blanket immunity. Like, let’s tear that down immediately.

Oh, well, we can’t compete. Well, why don’t you just make a safer vaccine then? How’s that sound? Why don’t you face the same risk that every other person who conducts any other kind of commerce or lives in this country faces every single day? Oh, we can’t. Oh, shut up. Go away. And so that’s the first thing.

I don’t even know how I got off the number. I’m so mad about it. It’s so crazy. And that no one can say anything about it. It’s like, oh, you’re against science. I’m not against science at all. I wish we practiced it in this country. I do. I actually believe in science. And if, by the way, if you believe in science, let’s see the numbers. Let’s see the numbers right now. You know what I mean?

Social Security has the numbers. We know a lot about who was injured, who took it, who didn’t, about the trials are all sealed. Like, I’ll just say this and I’ll stop. If you want to restore honesty to government, if you want to get rid of corruption, there’s a very simple way to do that. And it’s with transparency. It’s allowing people to know what their government is doing with their money in their name. And if you can’t know, if somehow you’re being prevented from knowing, then you can be absolutely certain that crimes are being committed, because why else would they be hiding it from you? Why is it that 62 years later, after the president of the United States was murdered, we can’t see all the files on that, all the documents?

Why is it that 23 years after 9-11, files are still classified? Why is that? I had a friend die in 9-11, like probably a lot of people in this room. I was there. Totally changed my life. Why can’t I know what exactly happened? Like, why don’t you answer that question? It’s our government. No federal bureaucrat has the right to tell you that you can’t know what your government is doing. Who owns this government? The federal bureaucrat who can’t be fired? No one will think so.

We do. So, if you wind up in a country with over a billion classified federal documents, you’re living in an extremely corrupt country. Extremely corrupt. And everyone around the world knows that about the United States.

We don’t know it. We don’t think we live in a corrupt country. We do. And we can fix it super easily. And let’s just declassify it. Every 9-11 document should be declassified. Oh, shut up, conspiracy theorist. No. If you want to create conspiracy theories, pull down a curtain of secrecy over what actually happened. Why are you afraid to tell me the whole story? Why are you afraid to tell me the truth? We can resolve this right away.

Just let me see the evidence. I have a right. I have a moral right to it. They have no moral right to keep it from us. So if I have one hope, secretly, for this administration, it’s massive declassification. And let’s find out what they’ve been doing. What happened to all the $100 billion we sent to Ukraine? There’s been no audit. Oh, they don’t want to declassify that? Why? Oh, because it’s a scam. That’s why.

And that’s why I’m just so grateful that Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who I believe spoke to you earlier, will be a part of this administration. And I think he will be. I think he’ll be a cabinet secretary. And I hope that his presence reminds all of us the cost of secrecy. Two members of his family were murdered. We still can’t see the documents there.

Why is that? And why don’t we have full transparency on anything related to public health? What’s the actual answer? And the answer is they’re lying. And they shouldn’t be allowed to lie. So I hope that changes.

Jeffrey Epstein Files

JOE POLISH: So what about a couple of things? One, Jeffrey Epstein files P. Diddy. What do you think is going to happen with all that now?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I’ll just I mean, I should just say at the outset, you know, I lived in D.C.

I got to D.C. My dad worked for the federal government, by the way, in a highly classified capacity. So like I didn’t and I lived, you know, basically I got there in high school and I left when I was 50. So I married, you know, I came up in the system. I marinated in it. I didn’t know that there was anything wrong with it. I would have been the last person ever to question the Kennedy assassination or Jeffrey Epstein’s clear, clearly a suicide.

Like I just had no idea because it’s like having an alcoholic spouse and then you get divorced. Everyone’s like, “Wow, you know, your husband was a drunk.” You’re like, “I had no idea.” Like the closer you are to something, the harder it is to see its outlines. And so when Epstein was when he died, you know, I I knew a lot of people who knew Jeffrey Epstein like a lot. I never met Jeffrey Epstein. Thank God. But I certainly knew a lot of people who knew him and like a lot, like more than 10.

TUCKER CARLSON: And so Jeffrey Epstein was not considered like some far out sinister figure in the world that I lived in. I mean, I’m just being totally honest about this. He was like this kind of interesting guy who had, you know, had this kind of rotating salon at his house off Fifth Avenue in New York. And there was always the Israeli prime minister and former presidents and like just interesting people, you know.

And I did not understand what that was about at all. And so when he died, I was like, oh, poor guy killed himself in prison. And then I got a call from his brother just randomly. And his brother said, you know, he was he did not commit suicide and that I was really shocked by that.

And I thought maybe his brother’s crazy. So this set off a multi-year journey for me that really changed my views about a lot of different things. And the bottom line is Jeffrey Epstein was murdered and not only murdered, but he was murdered in the most secure federal lockup in midtown Manhattan in the country. Not just in federal lockup, but in the most secure part of federal lockup.

So how did that happen? Well, he was clearly murdered by another inmate. You can’t get any answers to who the other eight inmates on his block were. There was no investigation into his death. They’ve never released it. And the attorney general at the time, Attorney General Barr, clearly knew that this happened. And and I’ve said that in public and he’s attacked me for saying that. But it’s just just a fact.

He lied about it. And so what is that? What is that? Think about that for a minute. And and I don’t know. And there’s a lot I don’t know. I don’t pretend to I don’t pretend to understand really anything. I don’t understand anything.

But I know lying when I see it and they’re lying about Jeffrey Epstein. And if they’re not, where’s the investigation? And there hasn’t been one. And so that’s pretty heavy duty. Where are the tapes? Where are the Epstein tapes? You know, it was so funny, they they released a tape, a guy I know actually released a tape of Jeffrey Epstein talking about Donald Trump and saying “We were friends once. I don’t like Trump.”

And OK, this is like the October surprise was to derail Trump. And everyone’s like, “How can you that?” I thought, I’m so glad they’re doing that. So let’s talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

Like where where the videotapes from his home in New Mexico, from his Caribbean island, from his place on Fifth Avenue, all these videotapes now, you know, in federal hands. Why can’t we see those? And we can’t see them, of course, is like a massive blackmail operation run by various intel agencies designed to put famous people under the control of governments. Of course, that’s that’s what it was, obviously.

And everyone knows that. But no one can say anything about it. And as a friend of mine said, we’re talking with us tonight. And he goes, you know, kind of if you think about it, like if you’re able to kill somebody in the secure block in federal lockup in Manhattan and get away with it, probably not someone you want to dick around with.

Like that’s a powerful force. And that’s a fair point. But it’s still worth saying out loud because it’s worth living in a transparent, honest country. It’s bad to have rot like that. It’s bad to have crimes like that committed in front of our faces. We can’t do anything about it. It makes everyone feel impotent. It makes everyone paranoid.

It makes everyone feel like nothing’s on the level we we wind up with a society where no one believes anything. And I feel like that’s where we are. The number of people I know who are like, “Wow, I’ve become a really deranged conspiracy theorist who doesn’t believe in the moon landing.” I must know 100 people who said that to me in the last two years.

This is and trust me, if you don’t feel that way, you’re just not admitting it because you do feel that way if you’re paying attention. And that’s a bad way to feel. I don’t think you don’t want a country like that. You want a country where things are pretty much what they seem to be, where people are honest, they’re straightforward. When they make a terrible mistake, they admit it. You want a country that is like the family that you have or want to have, where people are just direct with each other and kind to each other. And not everything is some crazy, multilayered deception designed to, you know, screw you or kill Jeffrey Epstein. Like, that’s so dark.

Let’s not have that anymore.

Cultural Influencers Controlled by Intel Agencies?

JOE POLISH: Last follow up on that is celebrities don’t appear to be as influential for presidential elections as I think they thought they were.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I think the whole point of the ditty party is to get people to endorse Kamala. But no, there’s a lot of there is a lot. This is something I never perceived at all. When I lived in Washington, I thought it was like a dumb conspiracy theory.

Even though I worked in the kind of crypto entertainment business, I know a lot of people in the entertainment business, of course, because I worked in television. And I know a lot of people at the intel agencies and in politics, because that’s what I did. And you would hear people once in a while say, “Well, they’re all controlled. You know, there are files on that person.”

And I was like, oh, you sound like a freaking wacko. What are you going to say? Like fluoride in the water is bad. Turns out fluoride in the water is bad. It’s crazy. Anyway. But that’s that’s actually true. It’s true. And I’m not guessing that it’s true. I know some of the people involved. Like if you’re on the if you’re on the house, you know, intel committee over the committee in the Congress that oversees the intel agencies. OK, it’s your job to make sure the CIA is not doing anything crazy like interfering in American politics or murdering the wrong people or, you know, getting rich.

It’s not allowed to get rich if you’re a federal employee. OK, and if it’s your job to make sure that like the CIA is not colluding with the Mexican drug cartels, which they are. But you are almost certainly controlled by those agencies like they’re spying on you. Then I’m not guessing on that. I mean, I know one of the people who ran that agency is being spied on. I told he’s being spied on. And some of it’s come out like that’s not acceptable at all. And I think it’s very clear that the same thing happens to cultural influencers.

And why wouldn’t it? Right. If there are a lot of people in the entertainment business, but in the cultural business more broadly, certainly in the news business, who are controlled by other forces, like obviously, how many of them look independent? How many of them look kind of shifty and afraid?

You look at Jimmy Kimmel and like, I don’t know what’s going on there. But like that guy clearly is nervous, super nervous. And I don’t know why he’s nervous. But every time I see Jimmy Kimmel, I used to kind of like Jimmy Kimmel. I’m like, wow, he’s worried about something. And I feel that way about a lot of them. And so, you know, I don’t know that we’ll ever get all the details on Diddy. I don’t know Diddy.

Never met Diddy. Kind of glad never been to one of his famous parties. But I know a lot of people who have. And I don’t know exactly what that was about, but I know it is not uncommon at all. And at least one entertainer I know personally was controlled. That whole thing is real. That’s absolutely real. Why wouldn’t it be real?

Why wouldn’t it be real? To lean on somebody to reinforce a narrative for the purpose of maintaining power. I mean, a lot’s at stake. You know, running the world, there’s a lot of power, a lot of money. Don’t dilute yourself. People will go to extreme lengths. Why wouldn’t they? I mean, people risk life in prison to rob a liquor store for 800 bucks.

So, you know, there’s some context for you.

Dangers, Opportunities, and Strengths

JOE POLISH: So this guy’s sitting here with Babs in the orange and Dan in blue. Dan and Babs. They run an organization called Strategic Coach, very high level coaching group. And he has this what he calls a DOS conversation. And it’s dangers, opportunities and strengths. And you’re consuming nicotine right now. What the hell is going on?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes, I am. OK. This is part of the Make America Healthy plan. It is actually.

Now, I’ve already said so many crackpot things that I don’t want to totally discredit myself. But I think there are. Yeah, if you, you know, take the tobacco and the tar and separate it from the nicotine. You know, it’s something I don’t think I’m allowed to make medical claims about nicotine. I think we have a whole agency designed to prevent people from saying what they think is true. But it’s a choice that I’m happy to make. Yeah, yeah, for sure. We’ll come back to that maybe.

JOE POLISH: So dangers, opportunities and strengths. So what do you think is the biggest danger or dangers that we’re facing right now as a country, the biggest opportunity and the greatest strengths that we have?

TUCKER CARLSON: The biggest dangers were with Iran. I’m just telling you, that’s the biggest danger.

There are a lot of people who want it. There’s a lot of money that’s been applied to the political system to make sure we get it. It’s a disaster for America. It’s not a defense of Iran, by the way. You’re working for Putin. I’m not working for the Shiite mullahs. Just look, I’m an Episcopalian. It’s not that I have any affection for Iran. War with Iran would devastate this country. And there’s a real danger that we’re going to get one. I’m just saying that. That’s a fact you’ll see.

That’s the main danger. There are obviously going to be some economic turmoil. I would have said a week ago that one of the great dangers is disunity in the country. But I feel like these election results were really unifying.

So I’m so thankful about that. If you look at them, it’s just kind of crazy. I mean, you had Muslims in southeastern Michigan voting overwhelmingly for Trump. You had Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn voting overwhelmingly for Trump. Like, what? It’s pretty cool. You had almost entirely white right-wing North Georgia voting for Trump. You had a lot of black guys in downtown Atlanta voting for Trump.

You had the Amish voting for Trump. You had South Central Florida, big sugar plantations of the guys who own the ranch. You’re the guys working, cutting cane, all voting for Trump. So it’s like there’s something in this, by the way, this is not just true of Trump, but it’s like whenever you have an election where the majority votes for something, you have, by definition, a measure of unity that you didn’t have before.

That’s what a mandate is. Most people want this. And that’s such a great thing. It means that our common goals are stronger and more important than our differences. And it’s just so nice to be reminded of that. So that’s our main strength. And going into an economic downturn or whatever is clearly going to happen, you want a unified country. You don’t want a country at war with itself getting poorer all of a sudden.

On American Resilience and Current Challenges

TUCKER CARLSON: We avoided revolution during the Great Depression, which is not a foregone conclusion, by the way, at the time. There are some really radical movements in the United States, but the country held together in a really impressive and amazing way, actually, from 1939 to 1941. And I’ve been worried about that for a long time. Now I’m not as worried about it.

“America’s a lot of problems but compared to what? Europe? Seriously? Canada? Australia?” So that’s I would say our strength and our opportunity is, you know, America has a lot of problems. Those problems have been exacerbated gravely over the last four years. The immigration scheme that the Biden administration instituted opening the borders like 15 million strangers come here, totally insane that’s bad. The US dollar’s in a much weaker position thanks to the like deranged sanctions on Russia starting in February of 2022. Kicking Russia out of SWIFT hurt the US dollar more than really anything that’s happened since the end of the Second World War.

On American Potential

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean we are still in the best shape of any country that I visit regularly and that’s a massive advantage. And like don’t forget that if you can somehow convince Americans that their country’s pretty awesome once again, again it’s an attitudinal question. When people feel self-confident, this is true in your marriage, it’s true in your job, it’s true in every sphere of your life. When you feel good about what you’re doing, when you feel like if you’re doing the right thing, you’re doing something you’d be proud of, you’re way more effective.

When you feel rattled and shaken and self-loathing, and you know like how many productive hungover Sunday mornings have you had? Like zero? Because you hate yourself because you did something embarrassing the night before. But when you wake up Monday morning clear-headed, ready to go and go for a run and bang it out, you know what I mean? If you have that attitude, you’re going to kill it.

On National Pride

TUCKER CARLSON: “Our energy reserves are just crazy compared to the rest to the world’s. We just have a lot going for us, and if you can just make Americans feel that we have a lot going for us and that we have nothing to be ashamed of at all.” Stop telling them it’s a systemically racist country, shut up. Stop telling them that you know they’re bad which they told us like endlessly. Just stop with that. We’re not bad, we’re great. I don’t know, it wouldn’t take a lot to make this a great country again, I really think that.

On Personal Struggles with Addiction

JOE POLISH: I want to ask you about that, but first, I want to… we’ll do some Q&A with the audience here in a little bit. Your alcoholism, you called yourself functional alcoholism when you were drinking and partying and whatnot. So what did you change? What was the light switch?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, what I did was I stopped drinking, which I found super helpful.

JOE POLISH: What caused you to stop?

The Moment of Change

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean in my case, I was sitting at my desk in my office smoking a Camel, I’ll never forget it, which I also quit unfortunately – little short ones flavored with chocolate, delicious cigarettes. I know no one’s allowed to admit that, but they were amazing. But I was sitting at my desk feeling hungover Sunday morning having a cigarette, and I just had this voice which I think was from God saying “you better quit.” My wife was pregnant with our fourth child, she was 10 days from giving birth, and I just had this voice tell me “you’re going to lose everything if you don’t stop drinking” and I believed it.

You know who knows why? I mean I’m just ordinary person with a slightly above average IQ, not super insightful. Like I have no idea what that was, but that happened to me and I followed it and I did it and it completely changed my life.

On Modern Drug Culture

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s hard to talk about sobriety without sounding judgy or like one of those boorish rehab guys who’s always lecturing you on all the steps or whatever, but the truth is one of the main problems in this country is that everyone’s loaded. Everyone’s on some kind of drug or drunk, everyone’s on pills. Like I just, I’m sorry I don’t want to judge anybody else, but like everybody is on drugs. It’s crazy. Everyone’s on SSRIs or that weird meth they give you but they call it Adderall, benzodiazepines. You know, I’m on a flight I think I’ll take some Xanax – what? It’s insane and I just am totally opposed to that.

“Weed – the number of fights I’ve gotten and I used to smoke weed every day. I mean, I know a lot about weed – it makes you passive and stupid.” I’m sorry people get so mad if you say that. Oh shut up, no I smoke more weed than you have – it makes you into a loser. Are you joking? What do you just face your life? It’s so awesome.

On the Power of Sobriety

TUCKER CARLSON: I never say this out loud because people really hate you when you do and feel judged. I’m in no position to judge anybody. I could blow your mind actually if I wanted to. I’m not going to, but I’m saying like I know a lot about the subject so I think I have the authority to say this. “It’s such a thrill to be sober. It’s not that hard actually, and if you’re not sober you’re never going to achieve the purpose for which you were created.” That’s just a fact – you’re not.

And it makes you weak. It’s the last thing I’ll say – it makes you weak. The more you party, the more you run away, the weaker you get, the more fearful you become. And the more you just face up to stuff, and I’m not even talking about drugs and alcohol for men. I’m talking about like a grumpy wife – like there’s nothing scarier than a pissed off wife like in the world.

On Facing Life’s Challenges

TUCKER CARLSON: And if you run away from that and just go golfing and like “oh she’s crazy” you know, it doesn’t get better. Like man up and just like tell me what’s wrong. Just like sit through the first three minutes and then you find out what’s wrong and it gets better and you get stronger. She respects you for not golfing and for looking right into her eyes and listening to her complaints for a minute.

“It makes you stronger when you run away when you golf or you get high or it makes you weak and it’s like a process. It’s like the more you tell the truth, the more sober you are, the more you face things that make you afraid, the stronger you get.” It’s like life 101 but nobody feels free to say it.

On Drug Policy

TUCKER CARLSON: And the last thing I’ll say, we should just go full Saudi on the drug thing. I mean it like full freaking Saudi. One of the benefits of traveling a lot is you go to countries where they just don’t put up with it. Like “oh you’re so uncool like you don’t want me to bring a joint to your country.” Try to do that in Japan actually, go try to do that in Japan.

You go to Singapore, you live in Singapore, they drug test you at the airport if you’re a Singaporean citizen, and if you fail the drug test, like if you smoke weed, you go to rehab for six months. They don’t tell anyone where you are, you just disappear, you go to rehab. That’s a true fact. I just had dinner two nights ago with someone whose friend showed up at the airport in Singapore flying home, got drug tested, got sent to rehab for six months. He was engaged, his fiancé left him and married somebody else – hilarious. You know, it’s a pretty big deterrent to getting wasted actually, it turns out.

On Compassion and Treatment

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah that’s harsh, okay, but compared to what? Watching people die of fentanyl ODs on the sidewalk? Have you been to our cities recently? “It’s totally cruel and inhumane and disgusting and beneath us as a nation to allow people to OD on drugs on the sidewalk. There’s no kindness in that at all.” It’s cruel. You hate people if you allow that. Would you allow your children to do that? No, you’d chain them to the freaking radiator till they sobered up because you love them.

When you hate people, you let them OD on drugs and let the whole country do that and encouraging them to do drugs, sending crack pipes to crack addicts, giving weed to kids – are you joking? I’d lock them up, man. I mean, and I’ll just be totally blunt as a former drug user, I’m saying that and I really mean it from the bottom of my heart. I hope we just get full Saudi on those people including the policy makers who allowed it because they killed so many people they deserve to be punished in a very severe way.

On Drug Policy and Incarceration

JOE POLISH: No, no, it’s like it’s… it’s a bring back the war on drugs but this time we’re not joking.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well see, I think I think the war on drugs was… I believe addiction is a solution to pain. So the drugs, the alcohol, the sex, the gambling, the workaholism, all the pursuits of the dopamine pursuit is because of either one you’re just pursuing this feeling you want, or trauma and things like that.

And I have mixed feelings about like, for instance, there’s 25 percent of the world’s prisoners are in the United States. We’re the highest incarcerating country in the world, and there’s 2.2 million people incarcerated in the US, and the majority of people that commit crimes are under the influence of drugs and alcohol. And forty percent of people incarcerated have committed a violent crime, the other sixty percent have not. So a lot of these people are addicts.

On Treatment Approaches

JOE POLISH: And so it’s one of these things where I take a compassionate approach. And at the same time, Portugal, I’m curious where they’re at now because like all I can go off of is really from several years ago. I don’t know how well they’ve weathered through the pandemic, and I haven’t stayed up-to-date on it, but what they did is they legalized drugs but the money they were spending on enforcement went into treatment and it cut the addiction rate in half, almost all violent crimes went down.

TUCKER CARLSON: But when you just make… I don’t know, I’ve spent a lot of time in Portugal. I don’t think that’s an accurate representation. And I would say, you know, I know a number of people, more than two, who got off heroin in jail and who look back on their incarceration as a blessing. “Addiction, when I think you’ve experienced with it, I certainly do, they’re crazy. You’re not in your right mind when you’re addicted to something. You’re totally crazy, you’re like a trapped animal, you’ll do anything.”

On Treatment Success Rates

TUCKER CARLSON: Our record on drug treatment in the United States is like a joke. It’s abysmal, it’s just abysmal. It’s made a lot of money for the drug treatment centers. I remember it was like treatment… well show me a treatment center with like a over 50 percent success rate over five years. I’ve never heard of one, maybe there is one, I’d love to know. We should replicate it everywhere. “The only thing I’ve ever seen that works is AA and that’s because it’s based in like the core truth of life which is you have to admit that you have no power to solve your problems, and if you don’t then you’re just lying to yourself.”

JOE POLISH: The only ones that really have really great success rates are long-term, you know, six months, a year, two years. Like Vulcan Academy, this individual they literally have people, mostly young adults, that check in for like two years and they have an incredible thing, but it’s a long time.

Final Thoughts on Sobriety

TUCKER CARLSON: I guess I would also just say I left something out. I’m so mad about the drug thing that I… I’m sorry and that endorse the Saudi Saudi drug program though I meant it, but I do think we should spend a lot more time on the other side of the question, which is endorsing sobriety. “It is so awesome to be clear-eyed and sober. As much as it doesn’t solve all your problems, you’re still the lumpy loser you were when you were drunk, but it begins the process of healing your soul and there’s so much joy in sobriety.” No one ever endorses it.

Everyone’s like “oh life is better when you’re loaded” but that’s just a lie. It’s a full-blown lie and no one ever calls them on that. And I hope – I mean Trump is sober, Bobby’s sober, I’ve been to meetings with Bobby – and I hope that people now in positions of authority who are on television all the time will just tell their own stories more often and just say, you know, “I’m so glad to be sober, it’s so great.”

On Drug Policy Reform

JOE POLISH: Because it is… and I’ll tell you the drugs that kill people are legal and the drugs that save people’s lives like the ibogaine’s and certain plant medicines are illegal, and so the whole thing is just lopsided. And part of the challenge is, you know, one of the initiatives we have with Genius Recovery is we want to save 20,000 lives a year, the hundred thousand plus people that are dying from opiate addictions.

On Legal Drugs and Accountability

TUCKER CARLSON: How many people die of Xanax ODs? I don’t know, that’s what I’d like to know. That’s a legal product that like every woman in America has in a medicine cabinet, every kid has it on college campus. I mean how many – if you’ve got kids in college, how many of your kids’ friends have to go to treatment to get off benzos? How many people die every year from benzos and alcohol? Many thousands. How many people die from withdrawal from benzos? A lot, and those are legal and psychiatrists prescribe them without thinking through the consequences.

“And there’s no sanction and those psychiatrists should be criminally charged in my opinion. That’s crazy.” The Sacklers paid a billion dollar fine for sending you know opioids throughout Appalachia, but psychiatrists who hand out benzos which are deadly and physically addictive, we’re just like “oh no that’s medicine.” It’s not medicine, it’s totally wrong.

And at some point like we need to call out people on the individual level. “If you are a psychiatrist who’s handing Adderall to children and benzos to their moms without any thought to the addiction and suffering and brain damage that results from those drugs, then you should lose your medical license at least.”

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On Parenting and Marriage

JOE POLISH: So looking back, being a father, what is the greatest lesson that has taught you? Because you have four daughters…

TUCKER CARLSON: I have three daughters and a son.

JOE POLISH: Oh, I thought you had four daughters.

TUCKER CARLSON: Three is a lot. Yeah, I will say they’re like a union, you know, you have to negotiate with them. No, they’re awesome. I mean the biggest lesson of having kids is everything flows from your marriage, and when you have a happy marriage, you know your children are happy. “Marriage is the core of a family, and I do think people spend way too much time going to their kids’ sporting events and not enough time with their spouses.”

On Family Priorities

TUCKER CARLSON: I think they spend too much time with their kids and not enough with their spouses, and if you want to make your children happy, have a happy marriage. And if you want to have a happy marriage, spend time with your spouse, don’t golf, listen.

And so that’s been the main takeaway for me, and there is a period – and my kids are grown, my oldest is 30, but amazingly – but there’s a period in parenthood that everyone in this room has kids is familiar with where it’s just so chaotic. Like there’s just so much going on, so many demands from the children, you never have time to talk to the person with whom you created the children, and you’re really at risk of wrecking your marriage during those years.

“I think me really like an actual risk and not just in the obvious sleeping with your assistant, though that’s a thing too, but just in a much more insidious and common way where you just sort of end up hating each other because you never talk.”

On Marriage and Children’s Happiness

TUCKER CARLSON: And if there’s one thing that I’m hardly like a marriage counselor and some douchey journalist but just having lived it, I would say if there’s one thing I would encourage people with kids to do it – ignore the kids in favor of the spouse once in a while and go out to dinner, like make yourself do that every week if you want your children to be happy.

What’s the measure of their happiness? The measure of their happiness is their willingness to like come home, if their love for each other. “If you wind up in a situation where your kids really love each other, close with each other, you’ve done a good job as a parent – like that’s the clearest measure in my opinion.” And that’s really the dream of every parent, in every parent’s heart is the hope that what he or she will leave behind is kids who love each other. And if you want that, love your spouse because that gives kids the core, the stability, the anchor. The kids want to know that everything’s okay and that tells them that everything’s okay.

On Joe Rogan’s Influence

JOE POLISH: That’s great, that’s good. So see, you seem to… you deal with incredibly serious issues. I mean you’re quite an influential person. You’ve got, I think it’s always goes back and forth between you and Joe Rogan who has the biggest podcasters…

TUCKER CARLSON: Rogan created the genre. Rogan created… I talked to Rogan today actually, amazing guy. But I just want to say one more about Rogan – I’ve been in the media as I said my whole life. Rogan was like a sitcom actor and a stand-up comedian and like an MMA fighter, okay? So he starts this thing called the podcast where he talks for like three hours. I’m in television at like a big network and I’m looking over at this thing like that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, no one’s going to listen to a three-hour podcast from some MMA fighter.

On Rogan’s Impact

TUCKER CARLSON: And this guy’s not even in our business, like what’s he doing? He completely changed not just American media but American history. He created a whole new… I mean it would be like this one guy invented the newspaper or television. I mean that’s how big what Rogan did was, and I just will admit freely that I did not see it coming. I did not understand it, I didn’t think it would work.

And the fact that it did work says something so great and important about Americans, which is they really want to learn. They’re not learning in school, they’re not learning in the rest of the media, it’s all shallow and dumb and about race and gender, it’s all lying. And Rogan’s just like willing to sit there with interesting people and talk for three hours. That was the most affirming, that is the most reassuring thing I’ve ever seen in 35 years in media, that that worked. And so I’m just, I’m thrilled by Rogan, I’m proud to be his friend, and I’m just, I really admire him more than anybody in media by far.

On Influence and Perspective

JOE POLISH: Well, and I mean again, you are one of the most influential people right now in the world in media, and over the last year… I don’t think what just happened on Tuesday would have happened without Rogan, without you, without Elon Musk. I mean there’s a series of people, but they are reaching lots of people. But the reason I bring this up though is that you seem to be super light-hearted about it at the same time. I see you as a very interesting guy in terms of you deal with very serious issues. I mean you’re interviewing world leaders, you’re calling people out that you disagree with, and you’re funny about it. You just seem to really enjoy your life and really you just seem to have a real strong center in the midst…

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I’m not… I mean I don’t think I’m in charge of history. I don’t… I have a keen understanding of the limits of my foresight and power. “I don’t think I’m God. I believe in God and it’s not me. So that’s like the root of my happiness. I know that everything we do is basically just dogs barking, it will be forgotten.” You know, you do your best but in the end your name will not be remembered, your grave will not be visited. You are insignificant in the scope of history, period.

On Life’s Simple Joys

TUCKER CARLSON: And knowing that you will die and knowing that… I keep that ever present in my mind, lightens it a little bit. It’s not up to you to change the world. God’s in control, not you. And so all you can do is your best, knowing you’ll probably screw it up at least half the time. Just apologize when you do and keep going, but it sort of lightens the burden a little bit.

“I see these people in Washington like ‘I have to change the world’ and like you will at best make it worse – like you’re an idiot actually, and so am I, but the difference is I admit it.” I know I am, I know I am, and that is such an affirming thing.

On Finding Joy in Simple Things

TUCKER CARLSON: And also the other thing I would say is I have dogs, I have a lot of dogs, and they sleep on the bed and I hunt with them and I really love them, and so does my wife. And we sit in bed and we spend at least an hour a day talking about our dogs – aren’t they great? They’re so great. And we have these circular conversations that are the same every single day, but despite the fact they’re repeated 365 days a year, they are no less enthusiastic and sincere.

Like we really mean it – like that dog’s amazing, yeah that dog’s amazing. We’re not embarrassed about it, and it is such a great lesson that the most beautiful and the deepest and the most important things in life take place right in your bedroom on your bed, right in your life.

On Perspective and Public Service

JOE POLISH: Alright, can you take a few questions from the audience?

DAVID ASARNOW: If President Trump, Tucker, asked you to be in his cabinet would you say yes or no and why?

TUCKER CARLSON: “I don’t think I’m in danger of that happening. I guess I just proved I’m kind of a lunatic who can’t keep his opinions to himself, so probably not the guy you want in your cabinet.” Yeah, can you imagine me in a cabinet meeting? “And another thing, and Epstein was murdered!” No, I don’t think so.

No, I don’t think anyone’s going to ask me to serve in any position like that. I don’t think I’m suited for it. You know, one of the things I have disliked all my life and had no respect for are people who get out of their lane. Do what you’re good at. Each person is born… most of your skills are just inborn, sorry, no one wants to say that, it’s just true.

On Natural Talents and Purpose

TUCKER CARLSON: I have a lot of kids, I see it in my kids, I’m sure you see it in your kids – like that kid is good at one thing, that kid’s good at another. “The whole point of life is to figure out what the gifts are you’re born with that God gave you and hone them and stick with them.” Like everyone’s like telling kids “well you should learn to this” – no, don’t learn to do anything. Take the things that you’re naturally good at and become amazing at them. You’ll be happy and successful if you do that.

And I try to apply that to myself. I like what I do, I think I’m above average at it, I’ve done fine doing it. So what I’m not – I’m a hubris guy, I don’t imagine this because I can like do a popular show on the internet that I could, I don’t know, run the Treasury Department. I just don’t think that I… I’m going to do what I do and I’m going to keep doing it until I drop dead, period.

On Power and Politics

TUCKER CARLSON: And the other thing is I just don’t… I just don’t like political people, I just don’t. I don’t believe in… I just don’t. I like Trump a lot, I like some people around Trump, but in general, “anyone who desperately wants to wield power over other people should not have any power at all. Any person who worships money should be broke.” I just don’t believe in that. I don’t think you should worship power or money. I think you should serve other people. I really believe, I mean that too.

And so I don’t want to be around people who want a ton of power. I don’t want to be in the same room with them, and I don’t want to have dinner with them. I just don’t like them at all. And if you live in Washington like you have to spend your… like next booth at the Palm and they’re just disgusting to me.

Final Thoughts on Media Coverage

TUCKER CARLSON: I think I used to say to reporters who work for me, I would always have the same rule. I was given the same lecture, I would say you can’t… you know, you should be passionate about things but if you… you can’t cover your own girlfriend because you love her so your view of her is totally distorted. I would say to my wife’s almost 56, I’m like “I think you’re just totally hot” – maybe you’re not, I have no idea what you look like at this point, but I think you’re hot because my view of my wife is so distorted because I like her.

“And I think the same is true for hate – if you hate someone, you should not be covering the person because you can’t see their humanity, you’re just blinded by rage.” And I feel that way about the national media.

On Media and Personal Feelings

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean I really mean it, I dislike them. You know, I know conservatives always telling you how much they hate the media. I hate the media – imagine if you’re me and you spent your whole life with them and you know them all personally and you know just how corrupt they are, that they would and they have sat there and told lies that put people in prison, separated them from their children.

And I could not be in a briefing room full of people like that. I would just be spitting hate at them and I don’t want to be hateful. I want to be around people I hate and I really mean it. I would be up there like screaming at them, you know what I mean, and saying horrible things to them, like really horrible personal things, you know what I mean, because I mean I know what they’ve done and I would just say it, and I don’t… you know that’s not the Christian way and I don’t want to be that guy so no, I can’t do that job.

On Spiritual Warfare

JESSICA MCNAUGHTON: Hi Tucker, my name is Jessica McNaughton, and I just also want to say thank you so much for your courage, your leadership, your presence when you were fired and you pivoted quickly and you gave a middle finger to that mainstream media, that was amazing. I’ve recently heard about your spiritual experience being attacked, and earlier today RFK Jr. alluded to the fact that he believed this larger issue that we’re dealing with is the spiritual battle between good and evil, and I was just wondering if you could speak to us a little bit about your perspective in being grounded and speaking truth to power…

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, thank you for your question. I mean I could go on for hours so I’ll just… I won’t, I’ll just pick one part of it and say two things. “One, I think our obligation is to tell the truth at all times. Telling the truth is not an excuse to hurt other people, it’s not ‘oh you’re fat,’ you know, that’s not the kind of truth I’m talking about at all.” But I think we should be kind to each other.

On Truth and Kindness

TUCKER CARLSON: I think there are all kinds of things we shouldn’t say. I don’t think we should be banned from saying… I believe in free speech absolutely, but I think we should restrain ourselves and not be cruel to other people. You know, I violate this all the time by the way, I already have just in the last hour, but in general I think we should be kind to each other, but I think we should never lie.

“I really think we should wake up every morning with the kind of New Year’s resolution – I’m not going to lie today, and if I can’t tell the truth, I’m not going to speak. Don’t let a lie past your lips and if we do that, we are transformed inside, that’s when we become bulletproof when we decide to tell the truth, period.”

On Political and Spiritual Reality

TUCKER CARLSON: And the second thing that I think we should be aware of and awake to is as we watch American politics revealed, it’s not really political at all, it’s not really about politics. “This is the battle, this is the eternal battle between good and evil.” And I’m not of course suggesting Republican Party is good, it certainly isn’t, or the Democratic Party is all evil. I’m not saying that, it’s not that simple.

But clearly underlying all these issues is the battle that every culture has described, every religion has described from the beginning of recorded history, which is a spiritual battle in the unseen world which is as real as the chair I’m sitting in. That’s what I’ve learned, that’s a fact by the way. I did not grow up believing that, I grew up in a totally secular world, but I have learned that through personal experience that it’s absolutely real, hundred percent real.

On Evil and Good

TUCKER CARLSON: And that politics are a manifestation of that battle but… and I think it’s very shocking to people, certainly shocking to me. It’s like we can’t believe how much evil there is. I can’t even believe this – people pushing wars for the sake of killing because they enjoy killing people, like that’s the fact. I know them, I know Liz Cheney personally really well, that’s what that’s about. It’s shocking to me.

But we should not get lost in that and feel morose about it. Of course evil’s real, what do we think it wasn’t? No, come on. “What we should remember is that good is also real and it’s among us, it’s present and I see it so clear.”

On Relationships and Unity

TUCKER CARLSON: My wife and I had this conversation two nights ago at dinner. It’s like you think of all the relationships that you’ve lost – we, every person this room has lost relationships in the past five years. This country’s been divided on purpose and that has affected all of us at the level of even our families.

But as my wife pointed out, and you can’t say this enough, in place of those lost relationships arise new relationships that are rooted in truth that are so much deeper. They’re not shallow at all, they’re not acquaintanceships, that are like almost like relations. Like you… I have conversations with people now I’ve only known for four years that are deeper than conversations I have with people I grew up with or people I’m related to. It’s insane. We’re being compensated for our loss in the form of true unity with people.

On Spiritual Awakening

TUCKER CARLSON: It is absolutely crazy and that is a manifestation of the spiritual war that I’m describing – like that’s the other side of it. And the number of people, and I won’t even get into it at great length, but in one sense the number of people I know who, like me, grew up on the coasts in affluent secular world where you know, God was at best like an idea… many of them on the left including Bobby Kennedy and Tulsi Gabbard and a lot of others who are all of a sudden like coming to realize “holy smokes, like they weren’t kidding about this, like there actually is a God.”

“And who are coming to a spiritual awareness, people who never thought they would come to that awareness at all, never even thought about it, who all of a sudden are and are joyful about it. It’s crazy. There’s something totally real happening.”

On Personal Faith

TUCKER CARLSON: And I should let it end by saying I’m the last person… like I’m not here to represent Christianity. If I’m here to represent Christianity, Christianity will be discredited because I have not lived a life worthy of that faith at all, pretty mediocre person obviously working cable news please.

So it’s not about me, it’s just something that I have noticed and it’s absolutely thrilling. And there’s a deeper unity… saw the election results again, in the end Trump got the votes of faithful Muslims and faithful Jews, what? And something about Trump, it’s about this moment is a moment of division but also it’s a moment of unity and we should be really grateful for that. I am really grateful for that.

On Trump’s Experience

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I would say a couple things. One, I talked to Trump and then he was shot, and I was really struck… for a guy who’s often been derided as a narcissist, and I understand why people call him that, being honest, but he was not talking about himself. The night he got shot, that night in July, mid-July, he was, at least in my conversation with him, he was talking about the people in the crowd and how proud he was of them. No one was listening, it was just me and him. How proud he was of them for not running, and I thought wow that’s incredible.

“I mean I try not to be a narcissist, it’s… you know it’s an uphill battle for I would say for all middle-aged men, particularly for me, but I think if I got shot in the face I’d be talking about me and he wasn’t and I just thought wow there’s something… I do think that changed him, I do. I’ve talked to him a lot and I think it changed him.”

On Personal Growth Through Failure

TUCKER CARLSON: When I got fired, first I’ve been fired a lot so I’ve been fired enough that I’m always grateful for a little bit of public humiliation because I think it’s really important particularly for men, particularly successful men. “I think it’s important to fail. I’m not just saying that, I mean it, I’ve lived it and not just fail in like a noble way but to be a little bit humiliated because when you succeed and I succeeded young, really young in my 20s in television, you just become a horrible person.”

And you never sort of pause to ask yourself am I doing the right thing because success is self-ratifying. Like of course I’m doing the right thing, I’m succeeding. Meanwhile you’re rotting inside and becoming like a horrible person.

On Moving Forward

TUCKER CARLSON: And so getting fired, having some big public failure where you can’t hide it or blame it on other people, it really forces you to look inside and ask like am I doing the right thing? And by the time I got fired from my last job, it like took me about less than a minute to be excited. My wife was thrilled, she was so excited I got fired.

And as to what to do next, I’m not that guy, I don’t… I’m an instincts player completely, I’m not a list maker. “I told you that I love dogs, I try to make decisions as a dog would. I smell, you often see dogs like my dogs are bird dogs and we hunt birds with them and they don’t know where the birds are so they just run and they’re just like ‘oh,’ they’re sniffing.”

On Following Instincts

TUCKER CARLSON: The bird but they’re running the whole time, they’re not walking, they’re charging into the spruce looking for the grouse and I try and live like that, like I didn’t know what I was going to do next but I wasn’t going to stop moving. I’m going to keep moving because I am afraid of entropy.

I am afraid of like and by this point I’m in my 50s, my kids are out of college, I paid off my mortgage, I guess I could not work, I guess I don’t have crazy money aspirations. I was like no, I’m going to keep working, I’m not exactly sure what I’m going to do but I’m going to like get up every morning and try to do something.

And I was really blessed because Elon called me the day I got fired and said you should put your stuff on X, we’re a free platform. I didn’t take any money from him for the record but he encouraged me to do that and I’m just so grateful, he changed my life by saying that.

On Decision Making

TUCKER CARLSON: But even if he hadn’t said that, I would have done something like that because I just think you should just keep moving and like it’ll become clear what you should do but always keep your nose up, like just sniff, if it smells bad, don’t eat it, if it smells good, eat it, that’s kind of how I feel.

“If you just keep your dog senses honed, you will make the right decision, I really believe. I mean it’s not much of an answer but that’s how I make every decision, that’s why I got married at 22, that’s why I had too many kids, you know, all the big decisions of my life have all been made on instinct and that turns out to be the best way to make them.” You know, if I sat down with a list like pros and cons, do the pros and cons, nah, nah, I’m not putting that in my mouth, you know what I mean, so that’s worked for me, that’s all I can say.

JOE POLISH: Thank you. We’ll do one more question if we have time for it.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: So do you have any tools that you would recommend to help foster understanding with those that might have different perspectives, so whether that would be empathy, understanding cognitive bias like in-group, out-group or, you know, confirmation bias, anything that you use to help foster understanding?

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s so funny, it’s like, do you have a camera in my kitchen?

On Personal Experience with Elections

TUCKER CARLSON: Because we’re just having this conversation, you know, because look, we just had an election and I think I probably have had a very similar experience to a lot of people in this room, which is, I mean, for the first time I went… I mean, I’ve been a journalist so I’m not endorsing candidates but the Trump thing, after he got shot I thought to myself, the stakes are kind of big, like the country is honestly going off a cliff.

“I just went all in for Trump, I never thought I would do that. I spoke on his behalf, I spoke at the RNC, I spoke at the White House, I did rallies for him, like I was, I was just like flat out, I’m for Trump. I’ve never done it before, for any candidate, ever.”

On Dealing with Disagreement

TUCKER CARLSON: And of course, you know, not everyone in our world was like that impressed by that. And there were some people who were deeply offended, because this election wasn’t about who’s got a better program. It was about, you know, is Trump a Nazi or something they try, you know, all this stuff and people believe the propaganda.

So, you know, we had people not in my immediate family, I will say, but people close to us who were like, really offended, like, “I can’t believe that Tucker’s out there endorsing a Nazi rapist.” And so my wife and I had a lot of conversations, there’s people we love, you know, for real, who are good people, by the way, not everybody disagrees with you is a bad person, some of them are wonderful people. And but they just disagree, or they’re deluded or whatever.

On Winning Hearts Through Love

TUCKER CARLSON: And so how do you handle that? And we talked a lot about it, like for hours. And my view at the end was, you know, you don’t have to win every argument, actually. And sometimes, and I’m a professional debater. So I’m pretty sure I could like crush pretty much anyone in a debate is what I do for a living. I spent my whole life debating people. I think I’m good at that. You know, if you’re a transmission guy, like you can fix a transmission, I’m a debate guy.

“But then I thought, you know, the only way you really change people’s minds is by just loving them. And like, you just sit and take the shit for a minute, actually, that’s kind of what I did. And just sort of try to be as loving as you possibly can be.”

On Leading by Example

TUCKER CARLSON: And just like, if you think that you’re on the better side, if you think you have a more humane position on something, live it out in your life, like show people love and that wins them over in the end. “I don’t think in your personal relationships you win that much by didactic, pedantic debate points going all Ben Shapiro on them.” I just don’t think that works.

On Happiness as a Marker

TUCKER CARLSON: I think that also being happy is a huge marker for something really important. I mean, if there are two sides of a debate and one side seems kind of grounded and cheerful and has functional relationships and wives who respect them and kids who love them, they’re probably on the right side. And if the other side is like living in an apartment, you know, screaming at MSNBC and, you know, compulsively petting their cats like maybe they’re on the wrong side.

I’m not being mean. I’m just being serious. “Like if your program is so effective, then why are you so miserable? And why do your kids have weird piercings? And like they clearly hate you. And your wife is obviously, you know, has no respect for you at all. You know what I mean? It’s not working for you. So that’s how I make decisions. I look at the outcomes.”

On Making Judgments

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not going to do a real estate deal with a homeless person. I’m not going to invest money with a bankrupt person, probably not going to hire an obese person to be my personal trainer. And I’m not going to vote for the party of unhappy people because that doesn’t work clearly.

So if I want to change people’s minds, then I want to model what I think success is, which is calm, cheerfulness, which is peace, which is connection between people, which is stable, enduring, longitudinal relationships. You know, that’s success to me. And I think by living that openly, like you change way more minds than by any argument that you can muster. That’s what I’ve concluded after 30 years of making arguments.

On Learning from Others

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I lived in Southern California as a child and, you know, all the organic peanut butter moms in my neighborhood I found incredibly annoying. You know what I mean? Saving the whales and furry armpits and lecturing you about eating white bread. And I was like, “oh, stop. You know, tell me again about how Woodstock was shut up, hippie.”

“And as I’ve gotten older, I realize actually I love those people. They were right about everything. And it’s just wild to see that a lot of them just wound up in an alliance with them, actually. And they were right about all the health stuff.”

On Personal Growth and Learning

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I smoked until I was 45. So and I love pizza. So clearly you’re not taking health advice from me. But it doesn’t mean that they’re wrong. You know, they’re right, actually.

“And so really, the most beautiful and rewarding experience for me for the past four or five years is realizing how much I have in common with people I thought I had nothing in common with, including Bobby and Callie and Jimmy Dore and like just some Naomi Wolf.” I mean, it’s a list goes on to be surprised in your 50s to learn something new in middle age, to realize and cheerfully admit you were wrong and then find out, you know, all the things you’re wrong about and accept things that are clearly right. Like, I love that.

On Admitting Mistakes

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, maybe some people are embarrassed, but I see my whole political class. I can’t admit they’re wrong about anything. They’re still defending the Iraq war. But I think they’re in bondage. They’re trapped. They’re fearful. They’re terrified of admitting they’re wrong about anything, because then the whole edifice of bullshit comes crashing down and just crushes them like the Wicked Witch of the West.

“How much better is it to live in pure freedom by admitting the truth about everything that you don’t have to be afraid at all? You can just be like, I was totally wrong. I got fired from my job. Who cares? You’re just like totally free when you’re honest.” And so that has just been incredible to me. I’ve loved it.

JOE POLISH: Thank you for coming to Genius. You’re awesome.

TUCKER CARLSON: Thank you.

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