Transcript: Victoria Beckham on Call Her Daddy Podcast

And then I think we can do both as women, which we’re going to talk about today as just, you can be multifaceted, and it’s okay as a woman.

But I’m so happy you kind of got through the threshold of, we won’t be talking about blowjobs today, everyone, unless you want to. But I think we’re going to talk a little bit about some other stuff today, and then maybe I’ll warm you up and we’ll see. We’ll see. You’re like, no, Alex, shut up.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Okay.

Paris Fashion Week

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Paris.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: You just got back from Paris Fashion Week. Tell me, how was the show?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh my gosh, it was amazing. It was a huge, huge success. You know, I never take for granted that every show is going to be successful. It’s Paris. It’s everything. It’s the dream. And there’s a lot of pressure, but it was fantastic. It really was. I’m so happy.

ALEX COOPER: Also in Paris, I feel like I’ve heard that you and David love Paris together. What is one of the sexiest, fun date nights that you’ve had in Paris together?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Do you know, in the early 2000s, we used to escape to Paris. We say that’s one of our happy places. In the early 2000s, it was so opulent. It was really opulent. And actually that’s why I named one of my fragrances Sweet 302, because that was the suite that we used to stay at in Paris in the early 2000s. And it’s so sexy and it’s inspiring. I love the food, I love the wine, I love the fashion. I love Paris.

The Documentary

ALEX COOPER: Okay, let’s talk about the documentary. I loved it so much, but I recognize that you’ve been busy. This comes out and everyone’s thinking, wait, I need to know. Why was this something you wanted to do?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, thank you. I, by the way, loved your documentary. I have to say, it was really, really… You know, I’ve been in fashion now for coming up for 20 years. And I was in the Spice Girls, a time that I’m so proud of, but I was in the Spice Girls for four years.

And I’ve been so defined by that four-year period and fighting preconceptions for 20 years, because I love what I do in fashion. I take it really, really seriously. And it’s taken this amount of time for me to feel that I can reflect and talk about that time without it affecting my brand and making people think it is a celebrity brand, because I’ve been fighting those preconceptions for so many years.

ALEX COOPER: I really appreciated how you broke that down in the documentary. And I think a huge theme that we’re going to talk about that many women listening will be able to relate to is just how it is so hard for women to be taken seriously as a multi-dimensional woman. Right?

A lot of people put us in a box of, you’re this, you’re a Spice Girl. No, you can’t be that and this. And so that, I think is a huge undertone of your documentary that I had so much respect for and I also really related to. So we are going to get into all of that. Before we do, I do also want to just know, I know you love being in control.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: So how did that impact your decision to agree to do a documentary where, I kind of know, you didn’t have full edit control? What was going on there, Victoria?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You know, I said that I went into the documentary process a control freak. I came out the other end a reformed control freak. Because I didn’t have that control. You know, the cameras were following me when I was at work working on the, you know, that was the biggest show that we’ve ever done. And so my focus was that.

And I couldn’t control the lighting and the angles. And it was quite liberating. It was liberating. But it was people’s response to David’s documentary that really gave me the confidence to do it. Because when Netflix first approached me, I genuinely questioned, did anybody really care about what I did when I go to work every day? And I genuinely mean that.

And it was my team who convinced me to do it, my husband, that forced me to do it. And it was a really great experience. You know, I’m always living in the present and thinking forward. I’m super ambitious. I like to dream big and then dream even bigger. But this was the first time that I’ve ever reflected, and it was emotional.

ALEX COOPER: As a fan, I think my favorite part of the documentary is we got to see you young, childhood. We got to see you in your Spice Girls era. We got to see WAG era. We got to see you in business mode, fashion, mom, wife. We got all of it. And that was so fulfilling as a fan and as someone who respects you.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Thank you.

Growing Up

ALEX COOPER: So let’s go back to the very, very beginning, childhood. Talk to me about where you grew up. What was your family like growing up? Let’s just start there.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah. So I grew up in a London suburb. I’ve got a younger brother and sister. And my dad, my dad, who I would say has probably been the most inspiring to me because my dad was a real entrepreneur. You know, I don’t come from a particularly privileged background. My parents were working class.

ALEX COOPER: This is giving me flashbacks to David’s documentary where he pops his head, he goes, “What do you mean by working class? What was going on with the Rolls Royce?” Explain. Because he was saying, no, no, they weren’t working class. Explain.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, my mom and dad were working class. You know, my dad was a real entrepreneur, and my dad started his own business, and he worked really, really hard. And in the 80s, there was a boom, and my dad made a lot of money. So the first thing he did, he went and bought that Rolls Royce. That’s what he bought.

You know, I used to sit with my brother and sister in a little production line. And my dad would have us all making electrical stuff. I don’t even know what it was, because if someone phoned my dad and said, “We want whatever it was,” and my dad couldn’t get it, we would make it.

ALEX COOPER: Wait, where were you in the lineup of your siblings? Are you middle, oldest, youngest?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I’m the eldest. I’m the eldest.

ALEX COOPER: Of course you are.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So my mom and dad would sit us down and we would make things and then my dad would box it all up. We’d be put in our pajamas and my dad would put us in his van and we would go out at night and we would deliver all of these things that we’d made.

ALEX COOPER: So you were immediately kind of hustling with your family from a young age?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: Work ethic?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Absolutely, yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Now describe to me your personality as a kid.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: My personality, I was quite shy. I was quite shy. I was quite an awkward child. As a teenager, I was just awkward. I remember a really early age, a family friend saying to my mom that I was morose. And that’s quite a tough thing to say to a kid. And when I understood what that meant, that really did affect me. It made me very, very self-conscious, even more shy.

ALEX COOPER: When you look back, did you feel that way?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I just think I was a teenager and, you know, you’re going through so many changes, your body’s changing. You know, I had terrible skin. I was awkward.

Bullying and School Years

ALEX COOPER: That’s what I think was something in the documentary that I think is going to be shocking for people to learn, was that you were bullied as a young girl. And most people see you today, right? And you’re Victoria f*ing Beckham, you’re Posh Spice. They’re thinking, what do you mean you were bullied? How is that even possible? Can you talk to me a little bit more about that experience? And what were kids saying to you?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I was bullied at school. I just didn’t… I mean, I didn’t fit in socially because when all the other kids after school were smoking and hanging out, I was going to dancing lessons or I was going to drama lessons. So socially I didn’t fit in.

But also, you know, I had terrible skin. I had awful, awful acne. I had very lank hair. I remember standing in the playground and literally standing on my own and kids just picking up Coke cans from puddles and throwing them at me. I mean, I was physically and mentally really bullied at school.

And we didn’t talk about mental health like we do nowadays. And so I just internalized all of that and it just made me more and more shy.

ALEX COOPER: Did you never kind of open up to your parents about it? Did you tell anyone?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: No, I didn’t. And I have such supportive parents. I love my parents. But I suppose I was ashamed, embarrassed, and so I didn’t tell anybody. But my entire school life was miserable.

I also struggled academically enormously. You know, looking at my children now and their academic journey, I’m a self-diagnosed dyslexic. I suffer from dyscalculia. All those things that weren’t recognized when I was a kid, they just called me thick.

ALEX COOPER: It is weird because I think sometimes when you’re bullied, you can have this almost internalized motivation that we use it as… Doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt, but it feels like you really leaned into the arts because that’s where you were feeling seen.

And even though it was so painful and you didn’t tell anyone because you were embarrassed, it kind of propelled you forward in a way. And I look back at it and I’m not saying I’m happy it happened to me, but do you now look back and see that? Can you turn it into a little bit of a positive ever?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah, because it gave me a thick skin. Because that bullying continued. When I went to college and I was told that I wasn’t good enough, that I didn’t look right, I was told I was too fat to even be on the stage. And that gave me a thick skin, I suppose, for what I was going to get next, which was very much a public bullying really from the media. So I think it toughened me up and prepared me for what was coming next.

ALEX COOPER: Prepared you? But also it is a shame because it shouldn’t have to be that way. Right? You talking about having someone tell you that you’re too, quote, “fat” to be standing at the front of the line. How did that impact the way that you saw your body at a young age?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It definitely affected me. And you know, when you’re younger and your hormones are flying around all over the place, you know, your body is changing. And on top of that, when I was a teenager, I was diagnosed with having polycystic ovaries, which was just another hurdle because that can mess with your skin, it can mess with your body.

I was told that I could possibly struggle to get pregnant and have children. So when you’re a teenager, these elements are difficult to digest.

The Audition That Changed Everything

ALEX COOPER: Not only that, I think even you emphasizing at the time, mental health, all these things, especially being a woman at that time, it’s like you don’t really have the information that we do and we’re privy to now. So to be dealing with hormonal imbalances, to be dealing with acne, to be dealing with bullying, you’re like, where do I turn? And you turn to the arts. You go to a performing arts school for high school. And I know that you said you weren’t necessarily the best dancer or performer, but that you worked really hard. Was this something that people told you or were you just extremely self critical?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I mean, I think when I was younger and I was at dancing school, I was a big fish in a small pond. But then when I went to college, I was a little tiny fish in a big, big pond and I wasn’t that great. I mean, I worked really hard. And I think the common thread here or the thread through this story, I’ve always had to work hard. Nothing’s come easy. I’ve been told no so many times. But every time I’ve been knocked, I’ve bounced back up.

ALEX COOPER: What did you want to do when you were young? What was your dream career?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I wanted to be in musicals. I wanted to be in whether it was Cats or Starlight Express. I wanted to be on Broadway. Musical theater.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so take me back and tell me the story of how you auditioned for the Spice Girls.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So there used to be a weekly newspaper that was called the Stage. And every week I would go through this newspaper. And there were auditions for, gosh, cruise ships. And, you know, do you want to be a topless dancer on a cruise ship? Maybe not that. Maybe not that, though. Respect to anybody who’s doing it or, you know, theater productions. And I saw an advert for a girl band.

So I circled the girl band, and it never occurred to me to be in a pop group at all. So I saw the audition, I went into London, and I queued up. There was a queue around, you know, quite a way out of the studio where the audition was. I queued up and I went in. And when everyone else was singing Madonna, Whitney Houston, I sang “Maybe This Time” from Cabaret.

ALEX COOPER: Wait, okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I mean.

ALEX COOPER: And were they like, sweetie, give us Madonna. And you’re like, no, no, this one’s going to hit. Were they like, what is she doing?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: They probably. I mean, I don’t know what the hell they saw in me. I look at that videotape now, and I’m like, what did they see?

ALEX COOPER: Do you remember what you were wearing?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I was wearing, I think, black leggings and a crop top. And I mean, I’ve always been a bit eccentric, even back then.

ALEX COOPER: So you go in, you’re wearing your leggings. You’re looking fabulous. What response did you get in the room? Do you remember what they said?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, I remember getting through to the next round.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So, I mean, Alex, I don’t know what they saw in me when everybody else is singing cool pop songs.

ALEX COOPER: Wait, for the second round, did you bring another cabaret song?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I think we pivoted. I think the second audition, I think I sang Stevie Wonder. I think they gave us a song. It was Stevie Wonder.

ALEX COOPER: They’re like, sweetie, that’s awesome. You can do this. Sing this song, please. We need you to sing this f*ing song.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, so you lean in, and then when do you find out you get the part?

Five Misfits in a House

VICTORIA BECKHAM: There were quite a few auditions. We had to keep going back, so it took quite a few rounds. And then when they found five of us, because Emma wasn’t in the first lineup. There was another girl called Michelle, who was one of the five. They put us all in a house in Maidenhead, and we didn’t know each other. We had to live in a house together, which you can imagine. Five girls that didn’t know each other, all living in a house together, dreaming of being pop stars.

ALEX COOPER: How did it go? Did you get close? Or were you all like, okay, wait, we kind of hate each other, but we gotta make this work.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Honestly, we had the best time. We really did. I mean, it didn’t work out with one of the girls, so she got replaced with Emma, which was meant to be.

ALEX COOPER: Sad for the other girl. But Emma was, because Emma’s baby, right?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes, correct.

ALEX COOPER: There’s no other baby in the world. She had to be baby. And who were you the closest with throughout that time in your career?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: We were all close with each other, to be honest with you. I mean, each girl is very different. I mean, you’ve got to remember we were five misfits that had all been told no, all been told we weren’t good enough. All from very different backgrounds, but we worked together. We all said individually we weren’t that great, but together we were something.

Girl Power and Authenticity

ALEX COOPER: But I think that’s what was so magical about it. Because I was thinking about it as I was writing this. I’m like, as a young girl, what was so inspiring about you guys? Of course we had girl power, and that was the peak of it all. But it was also the way that you guys came together and you could really identify with each and every one of you in different ways. And it wasn’t always that I was feeling like posh. I was sometimes feeling like baby or ginger or scary.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Whatever it be, people think that those images were put on us. We all looked like that. The first time I met Emma, she had those pigtails and a little baby doll dress. Geri had the big boobs and the red hair. Mel C. was in the tracksuit, and Melanie B. was wearing leopard print. You know, no one. It’s funny because I’ve heard so many times that a manager made a. There was a man behind it, Alex. A man. Of course, a man created those characters.

That’s who we were. You know, I did wear the little black dress and had the shiny brown bob. You know, that’s who we were. No one put that on us. That was so authentically us.

ALEX COOPER: No, that’s f*ing iconic. Because you’re so right. Everyone’s like, it must have been the producers or the managers that were like, your name is Posh Spice, sweetie. Meanwhile, you’re like, this has been me my whole life, babe. Clock in and get used to it.

Overnight Fame

ALEX COOPER: So you skyrocket to fame. Truly to a level of fame that I don’t think anyone could have imagined. Right. Can you explain how your life started to change immediately?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It did change immediately. And it was so fun, so fast paced. You know, I wanted to be the popular girl at school, and I was not. I was that kid that was bullied and beaten up, and I dreamt of being that popular girl overnight. I was. And I was doing it with my four best friends. And I feel emotional when I think about it because it was just, it was everything. It was everything that I dreamed of. And everything changed for my family, changed for my brother and sister, you know, and it was fast.

ALEX COOPER: What do you think was the most jarring part of it all changing overnight? Because like you said, for your family, for yourself, it’s all fun at first, but when you look back, what do you think was the most disorienting, jarring part of it?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I think it must have been strange for my family the fact that one day I was a normal teenager, and then the next day there were hundreds of fans outside my parents house and paparazzi and the stories in the media and, you know, when we went out being chased by paparazzi and people asking for autographs and things like that, it was exciting for everyone.

And, you know, I was so lucky that I could have my family come with me, travel the world and take my parents, take my brother and sister. We all did. So all of our families went on this fun journey with us. It was fun. Until it wasn’t.

Fashion and Tom Ford

ALEX COOPER: Until it wasn’t. Okay, before we get to the negative sides of it all, I have some pictures. Okay, we’re going to go down memory lane. We’re going to start with number one. I just want you to look at the picture, tell me what comes to mind, and explain it to people who maybe are listening on audio.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Okay. So when I was in the Spice Girls, I’d never worn designer clothes. But when I was in the Spice Girls, the other girls were not interested in fashion. So when it came to stage performances or videos, I got all the budget. So guess where I went, Alex? I went to Gucci. And Tom Ford, who is, I love Tom. I love him so much. He’s my inspiration. Everything he’s done with fashion and beauty.

So Tom Ford was the creative director of Gucci, and this was a Tom Ford Gucci dress.

ALEX COOPER: So sickening.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I don’t know where I was going.

ALEX COOPER: You looked hot. And did you lean into wearing mostly all black or was that kind of something that, then you were like, okay, this is my image. I gotta keep wearing all black.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, the original posh spice Gucci dress was not Gucci. That was from a high street. I think it was Miss Selfridge, which I don’t know if you had that in America, but in the UK it was very much an inexpensive high street dress.

ALEX COOPER: Love. Then you’re like, all right, let’s switch to Gucci, baby.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Absolutely.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, next picture, you’re wearing matching outfits, which I feel like you never wore. What is this?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Matching outfits and push up bras? I mean, this is so 90s. I love this.

ALEX COOPER: Do you remember where you are?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I think that this was the premiere of Spice World, the movie.

ALEX COOPER: Would you ever wear that again?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Do you know, I don’t hate the suit.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I don’t hate the suit. I’d probably do a single breasted rather than double breasted, but.

ALEX COOPER: She’s a fashion designer. She knows what she likes now. Okay, talk to me about this picture.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Okay, this is one of the posters for Spice World, the movie.

ALEX COOPER: Can you tell me what was the most fun part of shooting that movie?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: We did have fun doing that. And there was a script, but every time someone went to put a script in front of us, we were like, no, no, it’s fine. We’re just going to ad lib. We just, it was a bit like when they tried to choreograph us on stage. We were like, what? No, we’re just going to do our thing, you know.

The Spice Girls Movie and Signature Posh Look

ALEX COOPER: Now thinking back, because that movie was actually my religion, you guys. I remember you on the tour bus or whatever, and that is exactly how it felt. It felt like we were watching you guys in real life and I’m like, is this a character or is this actually who they are?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Every time they tried to give us a line, we were like, what do you mean? No, I’m just going to say this.

ALEX COOPER: I mean, okay, wait, but in that photo, what I did recognize is obviously everyone is smiling in the photo.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And you are doing your signature posh look. Can you talk to me about how the whole not smiling thing started?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I think it probably, well, I know it comes from a place of insecurity, but then it became part of my alter ego, if you like, and so it just continued.

ALEX COOPER: How do you think, though, that you leaning into that impacted your image and how people perceived you and saw you?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I think people saw me as very serious. When you’re watching fashion shows, it’s quite a serious thing. That’s how the girls walk down the catwalk. And I just leaned into it.

ALEX COOPER: I leaned into it, and then it kind of worked.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: And I owned it. And I owned it.

ALEX COOPER: Love. Okay, next picture.

Meeting the Queen and the “Say You’ll Be There” Video

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, here we are with the queen.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, honey, you’re with the f*ing queen. Talk to me about what it was like meeting her.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It was so exciting. I mean, I’m so proud to be British. I’m very, very patriotic. So is David. So are the kids. So this was very, very exciting.

ALEX COOPER: Really cool. Okay, next one. What do you recognize about this?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Okay, so this was the “Say You’ll Be There” video. It was so hot in the desert. I’m in a PVC catsuit. It was crazy hot. But this was the video that when David saw that video, he was in a hotel with his friend preparing for a game that he had the following day. And he was watching MTV and that video came on, and he said to his friend, “I’m going to marry her.”

ALEX COOPER: I can’t imagine the amount of men that actually saw you in that and said the same thing. But thank God it was David that actually is the one that got to do it. You look so hot in that. Okay, so he loved it.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: He loved it.

The Purple Wedding

ALEX COOPER: Okay, next. Talk to me.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: The wedding.

ALEX COOPER: Tell me everything.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: The wedding.

ALEX COOPER: Purple.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Purple. So these were very purple. And look at baby Brooklyn.

ALEX COOPER: I know. I was like, is he in purple, too? He is fully blending in.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: These are the outfits that we wore for the nighttime part of the wedding.

ALEX COOPER: How did you pick purple?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You know, I don’t know. We put these outfits on recently, I have to say, and mine wasn’t too bad. Mine was not too bad. David’s, he looks like the dancing man emoji. That’s exactly what the dancing man emoji wears, but he’s owning it.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, I mean, you guys are so f*ing hot. Wait, how did David propose to you?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: We were in a hotel up north, and yeah, we’re both quite traditional, and so it was quite traditional. He asked my dad before he asked me. So cute.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, next photo. Last one.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: This is us. I think we were out shopping in Bond Street, and this was not a real Louis Vuitton handbag. This was a fake one. And Marc Jacobs, who was creative director of Louis Vuitton, got in touch with me when he saw this picture. And he’s like, “I’m going to send you a real one” because this was a snide.

ALEX COOPER: You’re lying to me. At that point, this is fake?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes. Not as posh as you think, Alex. Not all the time.

90s Wardrobe and Harper’s Fashion Opinions

ALEX COOPER: Wait, okay. You had some of the most iconic street style, obviously, and you still do. How much of your 90s wardrobe do you have archived?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Do you know, I actually sold quite a lot of it and gave the proceeds to charity a few years ago because Harper keeps saying, “You were so cool. You were so cool.” I’m like, great. What does that mean? I’m not cool now? She’s like, “No, Mummy, but you were really cool then.”

ALEX COOPER: Oh, my God.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: But yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Does she ask to borrow your clothes a lot?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: She’s getting there.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: She’s getting there.

ALEX COOPER: You’re trying to convince her, babe, I’m still cool. She’s going to come around.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: She’s going to come around. Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: It’s going to happen.

Meeting David Beckham

ALEX COOPER: Okay. So during the height of the Spice Girls, we see you start dating Mr. David Beckham. How did you guys meet?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I went to see him in a football game because my manager at the time was a big Manchester United fan.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So he took me to see David play football and just to see David.

ALEX COOPER: Or see the team. And then you saw David.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: See the team. I’d seen him because in the 90s you used to, I don’t know if you can still do it now, but you used to collect little stickers of footballers. And so I’d seen him on a sticker. Like, he saw me in the Spice Girls video. I saw him on a sticker. So that was part of the reason why I agreed to go. I don’t like football. That was the only reason why I agreed to go to the game. What do I care about football? I just cared about the sticker boy.

ALEX COOPER: And did you previously have long term relationships? Were you looking for something serious?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I had a couple of relationships, but I mean, I was 22 when I first met David. And what first really attracted me to him is after the game, we went into the players lounge, which is just a lounge where literally all the players used to just meet their friends and family and have a drink, and all the other players were having a beer with their mates at the bar. And David was standing there with his younger sister and his parents. And obviously he’s really good looking, but I’m very close to my family, and that was a real attraction as well.

ALEX COOPER: It’s adorable. So who made the first move?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, I had had a few glasses of wine and so probably me. He’s quite shy, David. Probably. And I had Mel C with me.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, so you were feeling yourself?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah, probably. And, you know, he wasn’t even playing for the first team. I was in the Spice Girls.

ALEX COOPER: You’re hot s*. Yeah.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, let me take the lead here, babe. I got this one. What was your first date?

Car Park Dates and Falling in Love

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Okay, so the first dates were, well, my manager had said, “Try to keep your relationship as private as you can, because as soon as anybody finds out, it’s going to be very difficult for the two of you.” So for quite some time, we would meet each other in car parks. Now, not as seedy as that sounds.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Nothing dodgy going on in the car park. Have to point that out.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, perfect.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I can see the headline now. But it was just, it was such good advice because it was great to get to know him. And we would just sit. My mom or dad would drop me off at the car park. I’d get in the car with David, and we would just spend hours just talking, just getting to know each other.

ALEX COOPER: Honestly, it’s really, really cute to think about you two huddled in the backseat, nothing going on but just talking. Who said I love you first?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I think he probably said it first and then I said it immediately afterwards.

ALEX COOPER: You didn’t make him wait.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Okay.

Navigating Fame Differences

ALEX COOPER: In the early days of dating, you’re at the height of your career. You’re a Spice Girl. He’s kind of just getting started. How did that impact your relationship? How did David handle it that you’re so famous and he’s not at that level?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You know, he fitted in so seamlessly with the other girls. I mean, I remember being on tour, doing a show in Manchester, sneaking him into my room, and literally the following morning, David having to jump out the window and do the walk of shame, and having to skip training because of the blisters on his feet, because he literally had to do the walk of shame in his clothes from the night before. But he fitted in with the other girls and they loved him right away. And he’s so comfortable in his own skin.

ALEX COOPER: I think that’s something that was really admirable of watching your documentary was most men are intimidated by successful women. How did David early on prove to you that he was, if anything, just so attracted to you and didn’t really give a s* about that?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: He’s always been so supportive of me. When I was on tour, he’d be there and he’d be standing at the side of the stage watching. And yeah, that was never, he was never insecure about anything like that.

The End of the Spice Girls

ALEX COOPER: So we go from, you’re at the peak of your career, you’re the most famous woman, all things are good. And then the end of the Spice Girls.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And Geri announces she’s leaving. What conversations were happening behind the scenes? Were you shocked? Did you know it was coming? Tell me what happened.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: No, she just left. She just left. And by the way, I was on the phone to Geri this morning about something completely different. And we actually, we even laughed about it this morning. She just left. And we did not have any idea until she just didn’t turn up. And we can laugh about it now, but at the time, we were like, okay.

ALEX COOPER: Once you guys officially ended, talk to me about your life and the immediate aftermath. Spice Girls breakup. What do you do?

Life After the Spice Girls

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So I met David when I was 22. I was pregnant when I was 24. I went on tour when I was pregnant. I remember being in Miami in August. It is hot. I’m in a PVC, there’s something, isn’t it, Alex, about the PVC catsuit. Love the catsuit. Honestly, my God, I would love. I was feeling myself in the catsuit. I was in a PVC catsuit. I was pregnant. It was an amphitheater, outdoor theater, and it was August. It was hot.

And I had a bucket on the side of the stage, and I would have to keep running off the stage, throw up. I had terrible morning sickness. Whoever calls it morning sickness, that sickness goes on all day and all night. I was so sick with Brooklyn. And I remember saying to the tour manager, “I just can’t do anymore.” And he’d say, “You’ve got to do it. There’s only 103 more shows to go.”

ALEX COOPER: Casual.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah, casual. Yeah. And so after those shows, that’s when it finished. And I had Brooklyn. I moved to Manchester, which is where David was living and playing for Manchester United. And by this point, he is in the first team. He’s a big star.

And it was quite the transition for me because I was so happy to be with David, have a baby. I felt so blessed, but I felt a bit lost as well. It was difficult, you know, going from being in the band, traveling the world, being on stage with your best friends, to all of a sudden being in a flat in Manchester on your own with a baby. It was tough.

ALEX COOPER: I remember that moment in the documentary where you’re like, the juxtaposition in that, it happened almost overnight, where it’s like the screams and then the silence.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: How did that affect your identity?

The Struggle with Identity and Purpose

It was really difficult because on one hand, I felt so lucky and so blessed and so in love, but I was struggling to find my sense of purpose, and I felt ashamed to admit that I didn’t feel entirely fulfilled. And it was difficult. And David was. His career was taking off, and I was trying so hard to be supportive of him, but really struggling to find my own identity again.

ALEX COOPER: I think that’s something really relevant. I’ve had friends recently having children, and they stopped working and they thought, oh, my gosh, I can’t wait to be a mom. And it’s one of the greatest gifts. So I understand. And then if you are maybe someone who has worked, there’s this almost reality where you feel so guilty because you’re like, wait, I love this and I’m so happy I have my baby, but I don’t feel fulfilled.

And I think a lot of women struggle to admit that they’re not just okay being a mom. Because I think it makes you feel guilt, I’m assuming, and shame of, why isn’t it enough to be just with your baby? And so talk to me about how you started to grapple with, I should be happy, but is there more for me? And how did you begin to transition away and start to kind of try to focus in on what is next?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I felt like I had. There was a clock in my head that was just tick, tick, tick, tick, ticking away, and I just struggled to figure out what was next. And you’re right, you do feel guilty because on one hand, you’re so lucky, you’re so blessed. But I knew that I wanted more.

And being so much older now, I am so thankful and so grateful. And if ever I can offer anyone any advice, for whatever it’s worth, if you have the opportunity to go back to work, which I was lucky. I did have that opportunity. I am so glad I did. I am so glad I did before.

Embracing the WAG Era

ALEX COOPER: You went back, though. And again, it’s so crazy with your life because everything is so public. Is we then see you lean into your WAG era.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And you lean into being the wife of David Beckham. Talk to me about your decision to really lean into this persona.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I was a WAG, and I had fun. I was there to support David. I was there with the three boys, which, by the way, three little boys. I mean, now I’ve got four kids, but at the time, three little boys. That is not parenting. That shit right there is crowd control, Alex.

I had a lot of kids, and I was owning it, and I was loving it. I’m a real girls girl. I love girls. And so to be there with the other WAGs, I had fun. There was one of those girls that went shopping and bought so many clothes she couldn’t get in the revolving doors of the hotel because she had so many shopping bags.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, this needs to be me. I like this life. I want to lean in.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It was great.

ALEX COOPER: Can you describe to anyone that hasn’t maybe seen the paparazzi photos, describe your style and your look during this era?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah, I had big boobs. I had very big boobs. And I would wear little tiny hot pants or tiny, tiny short skirts. And I look at those pictures and I smile because I think it’s been such a journey.

But the truth is, I think that was, again, another. It was me. That was me showing that I was actually really insecure. And that is how I stayed relevant. That was how I stayed in the conversation. That’s how I expressed myself. Because I did not have the creative outlet that I do have now, nor when I was in the Spice Girls.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, you referenced that in the doc, which I loved that you owned, where you were like, it was attention seeking. I knew what I was doing. What toll, though, did that take on you emotionally?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: To be honest, I was happy to be there and support David. I say on one hand, yes, I am a feminist, but I’m also happy to be there and show up and support my husband. And he does exactly the same for me. So I was happy to support him. I was there with the kids. A lot of the other wives didn’t have children. So I was also being a mom.

Media Treatment and Public Scrutiny

ALEX COOPER: And, yeah, I think something that people may not know and then people that are huge fans will know is the way that the press has treated you throughout your career. Can you talk to me about in the early days of just overall, what you remember them saying about you?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So this was early 2000s, and the media was. It was very different to what it is now. And it was almost like a movement at the time. And, yeah, I’ve had my fair share of bad, hurtful things being said about me.

And I remember saying to my mum once, I felt like I was in a boxing ring and I just didn’t know where the next punch was coming from. And quite often it was incredibly personal, the things that people were saying. And I never talked about it. We said earlier we talk a lot about mental health now. We didn’t talk about it then. We just internalized.

ALEX COOPER: I mean, Victoria, you went on a show where they had you step on a scale.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And weighed you in front of a live audience. I mean, what do you remember in that moment feeling?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Very self conscious. I mean, Brooklyn was six months old and I was asked to stand on scales. It was the only part of the documentary that we were asked to not include. But you can Google it and you can see me literally getting up and standing on some scales. I mean, it was so humiliating.

David was there. He was in the audience and the camera shifts to him and he looks a little horrified as well. But back in the day, those things were acceptable.

ALEX COOPER: And what was the point of all this? Were they just trying to prove you were a certain weight? What was the goal?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I suppose there is that old school thought process of how quick do you bounce back to your weight after having a baby? I mean, after I had Brooklyn, I was on the front page of a newspaper a few days afterwards and there were arrows pointing to every single part of my body and where I had to lose the weight. Every single part. And, again, it’s a very, very different world now.

ALEX COOPER: It is, but it’s those type of things. I think why I appreciate you touching on it a little bit in the documentary is it’s similar to the bullying when you’re younger. It’s like this shit stays with you. No matter if it was 20 years ago or two minutes ago. When someone says something, and especially on the world stage where people are buying these f*ing newspapers and they’re laughing. Ha ha. Look at Victoria Beckham. Yeah, she needs to lose it here and there. That’s traumatizing.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: I mean, I wrote down the press literally would switch between calling you Porky Posh and Skeletal Posh. Talk to me at that point of how this impacted your relationship to your body.

Struggling with Body Image and Eating Disorders

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I’d struggled with my weight since I was quite young. In the 90s, I remember, we didn’t know as much about food back then as we do now. It wasn’t so much of a conversation. And I remember in the 90s, everybody was obsessed with fat free, fat free, fat free. And I remember being terrified to eat any fat. Absolutely terrified.

I remember my mum saying to me, gosh, you could walk around the supermarket and know the calorie count and the fat count of pretty much anything in the supermarket. So I was really mindful when I was growing up and that was confusing enough for me.

And so I think then going into the Spice Girls and having people talk about me so much and my weight and as you said, one minute I was Porky Posh and then I was Skinny Posh. And it plays tricks with you. And I didn’t know what I saw when I looked in the mirror. I had no idea. You lose all sense of reality and it is so consuming, it is so tiring and it takes over. It really takes over.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah. You said when you have an eating disorder you become very good at lying.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: Did you confide in anyone at this point in your life?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: No. No one at all.

ALEX COOPER: When did you feel ready to open up to David?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: David has always known that I’ve been very disciplined about the way that I eat and I managed to turn myself because I was too scared to talk to anyone. I didn’t feel that I could trust anyone at all. I managed to do it myself and turn an unhealthy obsession with food into a healthy relationship. Meaning understanding. It’s about balance, it’s about being healthy, about working out and David helped me do that.

David was the one that changed my workout around. I was doing cardio, cardio, cardio. All I wanted to do was burn, burn, burn. He was the one that encouraged me to start weight training and we work out together. And so he was, he’s always been so supportive and I’m very disciplined in the way that I eat. I’m healthy, I’m disciplined and it’s about balance.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, it’s so hard as a woman because you’re either, you’re either too skinny or you’re too fat or people call you healthy looking and it’s like, oh, my God.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, my God. There is not, there is never someone that you’re like, yeah, that person looks perfect. There’s always something about a woman. You having to look at these pictures of yourself, you saying there’s magazines. Were there moments where you would see photos and then it would immediately trigger you back in the day and impact your eating?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, God. I remember I was sitting around a hotel swimming pool in LA. I was pregnant with Brooklyn. I was wearing a bikini and my hair was all over the place and they got a paparazzi picture of me. It was on the front page of the newspaper and it basically just said. I mean, I think they literally called me fat. And, I mean, I was pregnant at the time.

Look, it was a moment in time. I never like to seem like I’m complaining because I’m not. This conversation naturally came up in the documentary. I didn’t go into this documentary process even thinking that we would talk about this. It’s just obviously reflecting and looking at my journey. It just naturally came up in conversation.

Changing the Narrative

ALEX COOPER: But I do want to validate you, Victoria, because I understand, again, you’re a public figure and anything you talk about, you also. Yes. You have to be mindful. I’m not playing victim. I don’t want.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: I’m asking you these questions because this is one of the most relatable things a woman can ever go through in her life. And the fact that you have dealt with it and will continue to deal with it for the rest of your life, as we all do, that’s, I think, why people f*ing love you.

Because you’re like, hey, I didn’t know what I was seeing when I was looking in the mirror. I wasn’t feeling healthy. And that is relatable. It’s unfortunate, but I guess. What do you wish would change about the way media talks about women and our image and our body?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, I think that the media have to be so much more mindful and accountable for. Which I think is great. Listen, they’ve worked a way around it. They’ll say, this person looks great. However, the trolls say, can everyone just be kind?

I’ve got to be honest. It’s like my mum said to me when I was growing up, if you don’t have something nice to say, shut up and don’t say anything at all. Why don’t we just be kind to each other? Right?

ALEX COOPER: So. Right. It’s like we didn’t say it here over at Page whatever, but the trolls have said that she’s looking a little thicker.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: The best one is, this person looks like shit coming out the supermarket. You’re coming out the supermarket. Do you know what I’m saying? Or this person was a big star in the 80s. Look how shit they look now. Do you know who it is? What?

Navigating Marriage Under Media Scrutiny

ALEX COOPER: No. It’s so fed up. It’s so crazy. So you’re dealing with all of this. They’re talking about your body, they’re talking about your pregnancy, post pregnancy. And then the press just keeps fing speculations. Then at some point in your entire career, come out about your marriage. And I know David’s touched on this, but can you just explain to me, for you and David, how did you handle all that when that came out?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: We’ve had so much thrown at us, and we were talking about it because we’ve recently celebrated our 26th wedding anniversary. And by the way, people said it wouldn’t work. 26 years.

ALEX COOPER: Years.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: We’ve had so much, so much thrown at us. And we’ve always just been there together and just ridden the storm, ridden the damn storm.

But, you know, just lastly on the eating thing, what is interesting is I’ve had so many women message me, come up to me after seeing the documentary and say how they can relate. And, you know, I talked to Harper about it, obviously, because she’s obviously seen the documentary and little girls still obsess over food. It’s still a big conversation at school. And I think that if my experience with it and my story can help anyone or encourage anyone to talk, that’s another really good reason to have done this.

ALEX COOPER: Without a doubt. Is that how you did Harper know this prior, or did you kind of allow her to understand this information through the filming of the documentary?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I talked to her because I hadn’t seen the final edit until the premiere. I was like, well, at this point, if I come across as an ahole, I’m an ahole, right? And I’m going to own it because I didn’t know I was in the hands of the editor. Right? It is what it is.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, my God.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: But I thought that this might have been left in because obviously I knew that I talked about it. And so I just spent a bit of time talking to her about it so she could understand. You know, when you have a disorder, it makes you miserable, it is sad, it is lonely, it is all consuming. I was present for many years, but not truly present. And, you know, that’s really tough. And you just got to talk about it.

ALEX COOPER: No, I agree. I think that is the beauty of there’s still so many things that we have to work on in terms of how we speak about women, but that the more we talk about it, hopefully then the tabloids and the comment sections will eventually, we can pray, tone it down, because it means nothing to them when they’re writing it. But it means everything to the young girl or to the woman. When they read that one comment, it can stick with you forever. And we have to have some more accountability when it comes to that.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah. And I think it’s all about balance. It’s about eating healthily, working out, and just being the best version of yourself. Right. That’s why I do what I do. I want to empower women through fashion and beauty to just be the best version of themselves.

Who Is More Likely To

ALEX COOPER: I want to play a little game. Okay, so we love you and your husband and I want to get to know you guys a little bit better. So we’re going to find who is more likely to.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Okay.

ALEX COOPER: Are you ready?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Who is more likely to hold a grudge?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: David can be a little bit more grumpy than me. I don’t. Life’s too short. I want to talk about it. Draw a line in the sand. Move that s* along.

ALEX COOPER: What is your biggest pet peeve that David does?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, my God. He likes to be early everywhere, but really, really, really early. You know the other thing he does? He snores. Alex. Do you know what he said to me the other day? He’s like, “You know when you wear those earplugs, it’s not sexy.” I’m like, “You think that I’m trying to push a look in bed? No, I’m wearing them because you snore. It’s not because I’m trying to look sexy in these earplugs.”

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, babe, if you would just shut up then I could remove these things, right? Is this the chicken or the egg?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It’s you.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, that’s so f*ing real. What do you think his biggest pet peeve is with you?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, he’d say that I’m untidy. I’m not. Look, it’s controlled. It’s controlled chaos in my wardrobe.

ALEX COOPER: The girls get it, the girls get it. You know where everything is. It may look like a disaster, but…

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You know, it’s just hair and makeup everywhere.

ALEX COOPER: Fair. Who is more likely to quit during a workout?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: David. 100%. He procrastinates all the time, by the way. I’m in the gym for half an hour, 45 minutes before he actually arrives. Then he comes in, he wants to chit chat, you know, so absolutely, yeah. I’m hardcore in the gym.

ALEX COOPER: I’m asking him these questions because why do I feel like you guys will have two f*ing complete different answers?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: He is a part timer. Just ask the trainer.

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Who is more likely to surprise the other with a romantic gesture?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: David. He’s very romantic.

ALEX COOPER: What is something he’s done for you recently?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: He’s very good at sending flowers and sending gifts. Have you read the book Five Love Languages?

ALEX COOPER: No.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, my gosh, Alex.

ALEX COOPER: Well, I know what the love languages are, but should I read it?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It’s a very small book. And David’s love language is gifts. And that doesn’t have to be expensive things, but that’s how he shows love and that’s how he feels love. I’m words of affirmation.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, that’s a nice one to have a husband, though, who is gifts. I like that.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah. So he gets me really nice gifts and I just tell him he’s great.

ALEX COOPER: It’s perfect. Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: That’s why I’ve got so many nice handbags. Let’s be honest.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, love you. Thanks. Okay, who is more likely to send a steamy text?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, David.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, okay. Who is more likely to cook for a date night?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, him. I can’t cook.

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Yeah.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I mean, I wasn’t lying when I cried over the damn cheese and ham sandwich. You know, Roland Mouret texted me the other day. He was my fashion mentor. French. And he just said after seeing the documentary, he’s like, “Okay, the next thing I’m going to teach you is how to make a croque monsieur.”

ALEX COOPER: No, no. Literally, you being like, I can’t even make a sandwich. David’s like, we love you, babe. It’s okay. And you’re literally like, no. This is really sad. It’s really cute, though. You’re good at other things, sweetie.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Thank you.

ALEX COOPER: Who is more likely to cancel plans to stay home?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, to be fair, we both love being at home. We work so much and travel so much that, you know, our perfect night in is glass of wine in the vegetable patch.

ALEX COOPER: Wait, you sit in the vegetable patch?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: David? Yeah, he’s created this incredible vegetable patch in our country house, and it is incredible. And if it’s nice weather, we just sit out there, have a glass of wine, and yeah, just laugh. He’s funny. David Beckham’s very funny, by the way.

ALEX COOPER: He is.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: He’s very funny. People don’t realize how funny.

ALEX COOPER: Who’s funnier?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Me. But of course, of course, give him a compliment.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, but I’m also better at it.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You’ve got to keep up. He’s got to keep up.

ALEX COOPER: Okay. Who is more likely to overshare at a dinner party?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, me. I’ll have too much to drink. I’ll have too much tequila, and then I’ll just overshare. I had to make sure I didn’t drink today.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Before this, because who knows what I would…

ALEX COOPER: Oh, I should have sauced you up. We’d be getting the…

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Let’s do that. The next one. Okay, fair. The next one. Now we know each other.

ALEX COOPER: Perfect. Okay. Who is more likely to spoil the kids?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: David.

Life With Harper and the Boys

ALEX COOPER: Love that. Okay, you have one daughter, three sons. Are the boys ever protective over Harper?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, my gosh. So much.

ALEX COOPER: That’s really cute.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So protective. So protective. Which is very sweet.

ALEX COOPER: She’s the youngest, right?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yep. She’s 14.

ALEX COOPER: I can’t imagine. Because I have one older brother. Three older brothers. It’s good but it’s going to be a lot for her. Can you imagine when she starts dating?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, they’re all going to have to go. They’re all going to have to go with her.

ALEX COOPER: No, they get a round table. Yeah.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, but by the way, she can look after herself. Harper looks so angelic, and she’s so appropriate in the way that she dresses. She’s a little entrepreneur, but I always say she’s either going to be a businesswoman or she’s going to be a stand up comedian because she is hilarious.

ALEX COOPER: It sounds like she’s got you and David in her. Right? She’s funny like David and a businesswoman like you. Oh, wait, but you’re funny.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: She’s funny like me, and she’s a businesswoman like me. But she looks like David. She looks like David.

ALEX COOPER: Victoria. I’m dead. Okay, what is your favorite thing to do with Harper when you guys need a break from all the male energy?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Gosh. What do we like to do together? She’s obsessed with beauty. And, you know, I mean, she’s of course she’s going to be. You know, she was sitting on my lap when she was a little baby when I was doing development meetings for my beauty brand.

ALEX COOPER: So she’s just getting those contour sticks for free left and right. Oh, my God.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: She gives me beauty tips, by the way. Yeah, she’s obsessed.

ALEX COOPER: Is she giving you TikTok hacks? And you’re like, what is going on?

The Reality of Building a Fashion Empire

VICTORIA BECKHAM: She does. You know, when I used to go to school, I used to get sent to the bathroom, take my makeup off every day because I used to wear a lot of makeup to cover the horrendous skin I used to have. Harper had makeup on the other day. Very natural, very beautiful. She’s got lovely skin. And I said, Harper, you can’t wear makeup to go to school. She said, why don’t they want me to look my best mummy?

ALEX COOPER: She’s such a queen.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: What do you say to that? She got a point.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, you know what, babe? Pack the makeup wipes. If they make you take it off, they make you take it off. But serve.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Hard to know what to say to that.

Parenting in the Spotlight

ALEX COOPER: That’s actually so real. Okay, as a mom, I’m sure you’re always just worrying about your kids. What is the hardest part about stepping back and letting them make their own decisions as adults?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Gosh. I mean, we’re such a close family and, you know, communication is key, and we always let them know that anything that they want to talk about, you know, this is a safe forum, you know, that’s really important. But, you know, they’ve got to go on their journeys themselves.

I tell you, the one thing, you know, we’re constantly calling the children of famous parents Nepo babies. Give the kids a chance. It’s not their fault, you know, and I think to just give the kids a chance. And our kids are genuinely all really good, sweet, kind human beings, you know, being kind is so important. Hard work. They don’t expect anything to just happen, you know, I feel like a huge.

ALEX COOPER: Theme of your life because it’s you and David and you’re so famous. It’s like your family is famous now. And there’s so much. There’s always going to be conversation about your life and your family and the dynamics and all of it. How do you and David handle it?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Again, it’s just about communicating, you know, and we’ve always been that way with the kids and I’m excited for them. You know, they’re all very different. They all like to do different things. I mean, Cruise, right now, he’s about to release. I was about to say release a record. I’m sure that’s really old fashioned terminology because I haven’t been in the music industry for such a damn long time.

But he’s a musician, he writes all of his own songs. He plays about 10 different instruments.

ALEX COOPER: Are you like, sweetie, do you want mom on the track?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Hundred million albums, Cruise. Let’s not forget that. Spice up your life. Oh, I remind him, don’t worry about that.

ALEX COOPER: You do. You’re like, are you sure you want me to just pop on? He’s like, mom, actually, leave me alone.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It can be on backup. And you got four Spice aunties that would also gladly be on backup, I’m sure. But what’s so interesting about Cruise is he’s really mastered his craft. He learned to play all of his own instruments. He’s playing in pubs around the country. A real grassroots approach that he has learned his craft. And I think just give the kids, not just our kids, just let the kids do their thing.

From Pop Star to Fashion Designer

ALEX COOPER: I’m dying at you being like, but don’t forget where you came from. 100 million records sold. Get out of here, kid. I feel like a huge conversation today and in the documentary has been about your search for your identity and fashion has truly from the beginning to now, been such a core part of you. At what point in your life, though, did you really realize, okay, I actually really want to make a career out of this?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I always loved fashion when I was customizing the school uniform and throughout the Spice Girls, you know, I was the one that genuinely loved and appreciated the designer brands. And we’ve worked with the best stylists, the best makeup artists in the industry, and I was always a sponge. I wanted to learn. I wanted all the makeup tips.

I was collecting makeup samples and products that had been discontinued, and if the makeup artist couldn’t find the perfect nude, she’d mix one up for me. And I collected all those things. I’ve always been obsessed with product, but it wasn’t until I met Roland Mouret that I realized that with his help, maybe this is something that I could actually do, because ultimately, I couldn’t find what I desired with regards to clothing. And then later on makeup, you know, I had a point of view. I had a signature from very early on in my sort of fashion journey, because I just wanted to create what I couldn’t find.

Fighting for Credibility

ALEX COOPER: I do think, though, something that is obvious is all the way back to the beginning of this interview, which was, it’s really, really hard for people to take women seriously if they pivot in their careers. You made the pivot from being a Spice Girl, this pop star, to creating your own brand. Can you talk to me a little bit about the criticism that you had to face early on in your fashion career?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, I think the fashion industry turned their nose up to the Spice Girls, and it’s crazy because they turn their nose up at that, and because I didn’t have a traditional fashion training, but secretly, they loved the Spice Girls. I remember we went back on tour, and I’d already begun my fashion journey, and, you know, all of the fashion industry, they were all asking me for tickets, and I came out in yet another catsuit, and there’s Vogue sitting in the front row, and there’s Harper’s Bazaar.

So everybody loved the Spice Girls, and I have to say, no one loved the Spice Girls more than me. But, you know, people had preconceptions because of that, because I didn’t have a traditional fashion training.

ALEX COOPER: Do you think, though, when you started to move more towards wanting to really, really engage and become a part of the fashion industry, you kind of had to change your image? And how intense did you have to turn your back on your past and really forge forward with a little bit of a different vibe and image? Can you talk about that?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, it was Roland Mouret, who was a designer, that I had so much admiration and respect for. He took me under his wing. He became my teacher, and he said to me, you know, the big boobs, they got to go. It was interesting because once I had the creative outlet that was fashion and the collections, I didn’t feel that I needed to dress that way, you know, because that was attention seeking, because I didn’t have that creative outlet. And so I just simplified things. I didn’t feel that I had to express myself in that way anymore.

ALEX COOPER: Do you feel like you had to kind of shy away and push Posh Spice to the side in order to fully 100% go for the fashion world?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, people had preconceptions because I’d been in the Spice Girls, and I was so aware of that. So I had to silence the noise, keep my head down, work hard, and ultimately, it was about the product. It was about the product. I don’t ever put anything out there until I truly believe it’s best in class. Whether that’s a simple T-shirt or an eyeliner, it’s got to be the best. And so it really was focusing on the product that gave me that credibility.

The Double Standard

ALEX COOPER: As you’re saying that I’m like, this is where it’s such a double standard for men and women. It’s like, you’re Posh Spice. You are so glam. You’ve got the best fashion. Everyone’s talking about your outfits, everyone’s talking about your makeup. Your entire career in the Spice Girls. Then you do a 180, and whether people liked it or not, your WAG era, you also had another insane vision for this image that you were going to put on this character and walk out those doors and get photographed.

And then the minute you want to be taken seriously in another industry, everyone’s like, no, sweetie, you’re a pop star. Please don’t do that. Meanwhile, and I love him, it’s like a perfect example is Harry Styles can launch vibrators. Everyone’s like, so cool. We love this. And it’s like, why can men pivot and do these big moments? And everyone’s like, it’s really smart. It’s really cool. And then for you, it’s like, sweetie, just be grateful that you had what you had.

I wrote down, aside from even that, the misogyny. Right? You have people writing articles, and I quote, “She should just be happy. David Beckham. What does she need a career for?”

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah. Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: When you look back and you hear those articles, how do those comments make you feel? Just be happy you have David Beckham.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It’s changing. It has changed. There’s still a long, long way to go. I think this documentary has really surprised a lot of people and we’re just scratching the surface. You know, I think that people have watched it, have been like, wait, what? That really happened?

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, that really f*ing happened. Let’s open our eyes and not let it continue to happen for more decades to come. And let’s stop being so in awe in interviews that people said this to people. And let’s be like now, let’s make a concerted effort to actually stop. Let’s stop. Let’s stop talking about women in a capacity that is just a singular focus.

We can be multifaceted, we can do multiple things and we can celebrate women. And the more other women uplift us other women, more opportunities go all around.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: How many things can we do at the same time? Do you know, the other day David was on his phone doing something and I tried to have a conversation with him and he was like, wait, wait, wait. I’m like, what?

ALEX COOPER: Hang on.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: They can’t do something on the phone and have a conversation. I’m not criticizing them for it, by the way.

ALEX COOPER: They can’t.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: At that moment, how many things are we doing?

ALEX COOPER: We’re painting our nails. We’re also scrolling. We’re on the phone and we’re telling our husbands what time they need to get in the car.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I’m like the bloody traveling circus. I mean, literally, literally.

The Financial Reality

ALEX COOPER: It’s so real. Something I really, really loved was you being vulnerable and open in this documentary about the realities of what was going on behind the scenes with your fashion brand. Right. We see you, you’re cemented as a fashion brand. You’re in Paris, you’re crushing it. But then you open up about the financial struggles that were happening behind the scenes.

And what I loved about that Victoria was, again, we’re talking about it’s nerve wracking right now. This is a huge doc on you. And being a fashion designer, you could have just kept it at that, right?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: But then you actually let us in to some of the not so glamorous side of things. Talk to me about what happened with the finances.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, I came from a music background and most of my team came from a music background. And we just didn’t know any better to be completely transparent and listen, I’ll own it. I’ll hold my hands up and say, you know, I know differently now. But whilst the collections were getting great reviews and the fashion industry were loving what we were doing, people were desiring the clothes, the clothes were selling out like crazy, the business was not doing so well.

And it was a really tough time. And I’ve been really honest and really transparent about it in the documentary. You know, it’s difficult. The fashion industry is really, really difficult. And I think coming out the other end, to be able to say, as an independent brand, fashion in its own right is profitable right now. It’s not a great time for fashion. I’m so proud of that fact because it has been a roller coaster ride, to say the least.

ALEX COOPER: I thought it was really interesting how you talked about how in, you know, losing millions of dollars, you’re like, I think people were really afraid to say no to me.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: What did that teach you? And how to adjust moving forward? And why do you think they couldn’t say no to you?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Well, let me tell you, they don’t think twice about saying no to me now.

ALEX COOPER: Okay.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Which is a good thing. Which is a good thing.

ALEX COOPER: Like, I love this material. They’re like, no.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah, exactly. It’s too expensive. Can’t use it. Okay. I was just saying I like the couch.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, yeah, it’s good.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I think that people didn’t like to tell me no. I think there’s a power in celebrity. I think people thought that because of who I was, I expected the best of everything. And, you know, I didn’t know any better. That’s the truth.

The Financial Struggles

ALEX COOPER: You went to David for financial help. You talk about this. What was that conversation like with him?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It was difficult. You know, he’s always believed in me and he’s always supported me, but it was a difficult conversation to have because I was new into the industry as well. And it wasn’t until that final scene in the documentary where that was the first time David said to me, I was supporting you, I was helping you. But I, slash, we couldn’t really afford it, you know.

Yes, David supported me, but we’ve always supported each other. We share everything, all of the finances we share. But even I wasn’t aware at that moment that we weren’t really in a position to be able to prop in. To be able to be propping up the business in that way.

ALEX COOPER: Do you think in hindsight, and I don’t want to speak for you, but that was because he didn’t want you to feel as stressed as you already were?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: No, I think it’s because he genuinely believed in what I was doing. He could see the potential in the business. He could see that people were desiring the collections, so he saw that potential. This has never been a vanity project for me. And he could see that it was bloody expensive vanity project, if that’s what it was. I mean, a little bit. Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Damn, girl. Yeah. But now you have not only gotten back on your feet, but it is profitable.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: And it continues to grow. What does that mean to you now?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It means that I have spent a long time fixing. I now have solid foundations, and now I can really build the house that I’ve always dreamed of. You know, I think we’re just scratching the surface with both the fashion and the beauty. There is so much that we can do. We see huge opportunities. And so now, now is the exciting part. We’ve done the fixing. Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: You’ve done the hard work, and now it’s like, let’s continue to grow.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yeah. And I’m so ambitious. There is so much that I want to do, and I’m not afraid to work really hard. And I think we see that through the documentary right from when I was at school and I was told I was thick and I was told I wasn’t good enough. That’s happened throughout my whole life.

But if you believe in yourself and you have a focus and you’re not afraid to put in the hard work, you really can achieve great things. And if anybody can look at this documentary and think, if she can do it, then I’m going to do it, then, you know, you did your job. Yeah, I did.

On Ambition and Double Standards

ALEX COOPER: I also loved the final scene with you and David sitting there at the end of the documentary. And I just want every woman to tune in and listen to this right now, which was so inspiring. You’ve been through so much. Yes. You could have stopped at being a Spice Girl. You could have been an incredible mother to these beautiful children. You have this fashion brand. You could stop it when it got hard and David was like, what do you think it is about? What do you think?

And at first you’re like, oh, I want to make you proud of me, or whatever. And he’s like, it doesn’t have anything to do with me. And then you were like, yeah. Why? Why is it bad to be ambitious? Why should I feel ashamed to say I love this? I love the rush of putting in hard work and seeing my work pay off and seeing something that I’ve built come to fruition and see people enjoying it and loving it and wearing it or listening to it, engaging with it.

And I think no one, and I hate always referencing the double standards, but it’s true. Unless we keep talking about it, it’s not going to change. No one has ever asked a man, why do you keep going? Why keep going? No one’s saying that to these billionaire men. No one. So why do we keep asking women? It’s enough. You should just be happy.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Because I love this sh*t.

ALEX COOPER: Because I have a passion and I can do both. I can be a mother and I can have a career. And that is something we haven’t seen represented. And I think this new generation, and you’re a perfect example, you’re bringing it to life and you’re like, let’s f*ing go girls.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: So as are you.

ALEX COOPER: Stop. I love you.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: As are you.

Fashion Rapid Fire

ALEX COOPER: You are a fashion icon. So before you leave, we need to soak up some of the wisdom. Are you ready? We’re going to end with a game. What is a 90s trend you wish would come back?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Catsuits.

ALEX COOPER: I thought you were going to say that. You’re like, are they very uncomfortable?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I mean, I wore some PVC ones. PVC catsuits in the desert in hot weathers. Not comfortable.

ALEX COOPER: And what is PVC?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: It’s like plastic.

ALEX COOPER: Like sexy.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Yes.

ALEX COOPER: It’s worth it.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You look so good.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, what’s the one thing you think every woman should own?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: The perfect tuxedo jacket or the perfect pair of jeans.

ALEX COOPER: Are you into your high waisted or low waisted right now?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I like high waisted. Yeah. A high waisted long jean that makes your legs look like they go on. It’s about creating an optical illusion.

ALEX COOPER: Love.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: That’s my thing.

ALEX COOPER: Yes.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: That’s why I got into this game.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, I’m here to make us look stunning, girl, stick with me.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Totally.

ALEX COOPER: What is one look of yours that David hated?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, what does he hate? Do you know we were playing this game not too long ago and he said, what have I worn that you don’t want to? I just said, you look great in everything. Because that’s what they want to hear.

ALEX COOPER: Of course you got to.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: They don’t want the truth.

ALEX COOPER: No, no, no. But what would you say? You hate everything, but you don’t like everything that he wears.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You look great in everything.

ALEX COOPER: But what don’t you actually like that he doesn’t?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: That he wears. He does look good in everything is David Beckham. So he looks great. And then I said, what do you not like me in? And I thought, well, I’ve got this. Because, you know, I’ve got this. And he went, well, yeah. I mean, when you wear all those big baggy clothes and you drown yourself in fabric. I was like, I mean, I was shocked, shocked, shocked. I thought, I’ve got this sh*t down. What do you mean you don’t like something? This is my thing.

ALEX COOPER: This is me. This is my whole, this is who I am. That’s what I’m known for. He’s like, okay, wait, so one I hate. And you’re like, meanwhile that little sh*t. You’re like, I went easy on you. What is one piece from your line that you wear the most?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: My Alina jeans. I wear them all the time because they just make my legs look so damn long. And I’m actually 5’4″. I mean, I’m short.

ALEX COOPER: You look so tall. The illusion.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, stop.

ALEX COOPER: Keep going. Okay, how would you describe your current style in three words?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Simple, considered, elegant.

ALEX COOPER: Cute. Okay, what is one tip that you wish you could give your younger self when it comes to style?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: There’s something so nice about when you’re growing up where, you know, I was quite naive. I didn’t know about fashion. And when I look back at pictures and smile, however God awful it was, it’s been part of the journey. And there was, you know, you feel free. There’s a sense of naivety that I love when you’re younger.

So just enjoy it. Don’t be scared. If that’s how you want to express yourself, go for it. It’s part of the journey. It’s part of growing up.

ALEX COOPER: So do you think you, do you wish you would have smiled more or no?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: By the way, how smiley am I actually?

ALEX COOPER: You know, Victoria, you’re smiling all the time. It’s just when that camera hits you, so good.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: You know, I had a slogan T-shirt once that said, “I’m smiling on the inside” because I feel that it’s my duty to the fashion community or something like that. I mean, I…

ALEX COOPER: You look, I mean, listen, as the kids would say, you are serving cunt. Okay?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, my God, I love that you said that. I love you even more now.

ALEX COOPER: You said that Victoria Beckham serves cunt. That’s the f*ing title.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Oh, God. No, don’t. That’s a horrible headline. I’m actually really, oh, my God.

ALEX COOPER: Oh, you’re thinking.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I’m saying.

ALEX COOPER: No, no, you’re serving. It’s the difference in being.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Isn’t it a shame we can’t put it on a T-shirt?

ALEX COOPER: I know. It would be so cunt. Okay, as we’ve talked about, you’ve been through so many different phases of your life. How do you feel in this era that you’re in right now?

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Do you know, I feel really content and still super ambitious and really excited about the future. But I feel content. I feel peaceful. I feel really happy, obviously, so blessed. And I’m excited for the future, you know, today.

ALEX COOPER: How do you feel about Posh Spice?

Finding Peace at 51

VICTORIA BECKHAM: I love Posh Spice. I do love Posh Spice. I really do. You know, people say that the Spice Girls changed their lives and the Spice Girls made them feel good enough. Because I said earlier that we were all little misfits and we worked together. I would be such a different person if I hadn’t met those Spice Girls.

You know, they made me feel good enough. They made me. They turned me from being that morose seven year old into a confident, happy adult. And it’s taken really, this documentary process for me to really reflect and honestly say that at 51 years old, I feel good enough. It’s taken me 51 years to realize, however many times people have told me I’m not, I’m good enough. And that feels good.

ALEX COOPER: I love you being so open about that. I think this is such an inspiring conversation. The documentary is so inspiring, I think, for so many young women, whatever age. Actually, as a woman, for you to say at 51, I’m actually feeling finally, I think it’s we have to give ourselves grace, that it’s a process and it’s going to take a while, but really it is not to be corny, but it really is always within you that you can feel, find the strength and the courage to be like, “I love myself.”

And the sooner you can get there, the sooner you’re at peace with yourself. And it’s beautiful to, from all the way to the beginning of this, talking about that young girl, talking about all the headlines and all of it. It didn’t break you. You shouldn’t have had to go through it, but it made you stronger. And it’s why you are the woman you are today sitting in front of me.

I cannot thank you enough for coming on Call Her Daddy. I’m not going to be able to sleep tonight. I’m going to be like, why didn’t I ask her 19 more questions? But thank you for answering everything and thank you for being so open.

Mutual Admiration

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Thank you. And thank you for everything as well and for everything that you’re doing for women. I really, really respect and admire you. And when I was listening to the episode that you did with Jane Fonda and she said that she had been interviewed so many times and you were the best interview. I honestly echo that. I really do. I really do.

ALEX COOPER: You made my job easy today. Seriously. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It was an honor to meet you. I love you, and good luck with everything.

VICTORIA BECKHAM: Let’s have a tequila now.

ALEX COOPER: Please, please, please. I need a drink.

Related Posts

• On Purpose Podcast: with James Cameron on the Power of Dreams (Transcript)
• On Purpose Podcast: Selena Gomez on Letting Go, Healing, and Finding Her True Self (Transcript)
• The Diary Of A CEO: Simon Cowell on Failure and Resilience (Transcript)
• Actor Chris Hemsworth on Jay Shetty Podcast (Transcript)
• Actor Ethan Hawke on Joe Rogan Podcast #2425 (Transcript)