Joe Rogan Experience: #2430 with Jay Anderson (Transcript)

I was like, huh, okay. Then you have all of these various different examples.

JOE ROGAN: I asked you. Yeah, who said that? Who called it that?

JAY ANDERSON: So, Jesse… When Jesse Michaels put out his documentary, there was just a scene in it. Now my memory is failing me a little bit, but there’s a scene in it where he was talking about the Nazca region. And he said that the original… In the original language, this translates roughly to the area of experimentation and genetics of some form.

JOE ROGAN: But how do they know what those terms were?

JAY ANDERSON: I agree, I agree, I agree. But it’s just a weird little caveat that he brought up in the documentary. I’m not quite… He’d probably be rolling his eyes at me now like, “Dude, I actually f*ing know exactly what this is. Making me look like an idiot.”

JOE ROGAN: Butchering it.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I’m butchering it.

JOE ROGAN: But I do that all the time.

The Megalithic Mystery of Peru

JAY ANDERSON: No, for sure, but I… But just the fact that these things exist and they exist in an area of the world which is full of mystery. I mean, the megalithic sites around there, like I said, that’s what I was out there for. To see these different megalithic sites and the Nazca Lines and you know, Sacsayhuamán and in the Sacred Valley, you just have like incredibly complex architecture.

You know rose quartz, granite, diorite andesite, these incredibly hard stones, like in Egypt. But honestly, I find Peru even more baffling than Egypt with the architecture because of just the level of interlocking precision that you see and the fact that it looks like they’ve softened the stone.

In Sacsayhuamán, it looks like marshmallows, like all squished together. And it just invokes a lot of different theories from people about how they were actually manipulating the stone.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, because it doesn’t seem like it was just carved.

JAY ANDERSON: No, right.

JOE ROGAN: Like it, it does seem like there’s some areas where chunks are, have been removed from, you know, the quarries. But when they’re all pieced together, when you see those weird like curvatures to it, it’s like, what were you guys doing?

JAY ANDERSON: Precision, perfect precision. And like sometimes you’ll see like these corners where just a tiny bit of stone is jutting up and then the other two are connecting into it. So this is such a ridiculous level of complexity for an apparent 600 year ago Bronze Age bronze chisels and stone hammer tool wielding civilization.

And also in Peru is what I find very interesting is you’ve got a brilliant visual contrast to use when you look at what is the Inca work, which is the rough cut stone, the mortar, brick, using walls like this is all present in Peru next to the megalithic sites.

And the mainstream will attribute all of this to the Inca of 600 years ago. But you’ll see that the stone walls that are rough cut and use cement and mortar, they’re still standing. They’re pretty pristine. They’re looking good next to megalithic multi-ton slabs of granite that are broken to pieces and strewn across the hillside.

So it just looks like there was a lot of desolation, potentially geological trauma in this area. And then these people, the Inca discovered these sites built around them. You can see in like the cracks and corners of all these megaliths that there’s like stone walls that they’ve tried to kind of, you know, reinforce. It’s very visually obvious actually when you go out to these places.

The Resistance to Alternative Theories

JOE ROGAN: Isn’t it fascinating that people aren’t willing to consider the possibility that this is from an older time like that. It’s heresy.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s just such a knee jerk reaction, man. Like, I think at the end of the day we’re still using models from like 1800s explorers, right? And it’s like, what the f*? Like we’ve moved forward. There’s a lot contradicting evidence and data in a lot of these countries.

Whether it be, you know, Göbekli Tepe in Turkey, or the potential infrastructure below the Giza Plateau. And then the incredible megaliths in Sacsayhuamán in Peru, like Sacsayhuamán. It just feels like what we’re doing is rehashing the same status quo orthodoxy and it’s coming up against ever piling higher mountain of evidence.

And one of the cool things that I got to do out in Peru was go to Sacsayhuamán, where they’ve got current archaeological digs going on through the Chinkana project, which is an archaeological team out there, and they’re doing digs and they have actually discovered below, like 10 meters down into the ground, precision carved blocks of stone that are coming out of the earth.

And this is where in this region in Cusco, the Andean legends are that there is a vast labyrinth below ground connecting Cusco to Sacsayhuamán, connecting Sacsayhuamán to the sacred valley, all spreading out across the Andean mountain range. And this is like an old legend.

This is what the shamans and the, you know, sacred keepers of knowledge would say in Peru, we’re finding evidence for it. We’re literally going underground now and seeing that there are actually really precise elements of infrastructure below Sacsayhuamán. And they’re just beginning to uncover this.

I was one of the first to go down there and actually see these blocks myself. And it’s just like this is happening now. You know, we’re actually getting to a place where we can start to validate some of these forgotten myths and folklores or if you want to call them conspiracies or pseudoscience from the archaeological side of things. It’s being evidence now that’s mad.

The Underground Labyrinth

JOE ROGAN: So these tunnels and like, what is exactly the structure that’s supposed to be down there? And what have they discovered?

JAY ANDERSON: So it’s supposed to be called the Chinkana, like the labyrinth. And there’s a few different Chinkana entrances around the region.

JOE ROGAN: How big is it supposed to be? Vast.

JAY ANDERSON: Multiple kilometers. It’s stretching from down Sacsayhuamán down into Cusco and then off into the Andean mountain range to the sacred valley.

JOE ROGAN: Very similar to some of the stuff they found in Egypt. That’s banana.

JAY ANDERSON: Yes. And then what’s interesting is you have the same hallmarks and signatures that you see in Egypt. So you see the stone knobs, you know, these little protrusions that you get. I’m… I’m addicted to those, man. Because they are all over the world.

JOE ROGAN: Do you have any theories?

JAY ANDERSON: I mean, I’ve listened to a lot of theories. I certainly think that the…

JOE ROGAN: We should show an image of it.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Don’t know what we’re talking about.

JAY ANDERSON: Stone nubs.

The Mystery of the Stone Knobs

JOE ROGAN: There’s all of these incredible massive stones that have been somehow or another moved from a quarry sometimes that were hundreds of miles away. They all these weird nubs on them and no one knows what they are. And there’s a bunch of theories like maybe they help them move.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, there we go.

JOE ROGAN: You see them all over the place and no one quite knows.

JAY ANDERSON: India, you see them in Egypt, you see them in Peru. This is in Ollantaytambo in the Sacred Valley.

JOE ROGAN: This is one of the things that’s so infuriating about people that are arrogant about gatekeeping information and being the only ones that are allowed to distribute the truth. Right. Air quotes. Right. We’re missing so much.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: There’s no way you really know.

JAY ANDERSON: Huge gaps of knowledge.

JOE ROGAN: We’re missing so much. And more time goes on. As Graham Hancock always says, shit just keeps getting older. And now they just push back the use of fire by 300,000 plus years. Yeah, yeah, okay.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, exactly.

JOE ROGAN: Like it just keeps going. It’s not going forward. No, it’s going backwards.

JAY ANDERSON: Or anatomically modern humans, I think, have gone much further back now in time. They’re looking at 800,000 years, you know.

The Toba Volcano and Near-Extinction Events

JOE ROGAN: Plus, possibly even a million. This is what weirds me out about these creatures. Like human beings have gotten to the point multiple times where we were almost extinct. The Toba volcano. I think we got down to God. Was it 7,000 people? Is that like the low estimate?

Damn. Really?

Yeah. It’s a crazy story. Like super volcanoes are unbelievably devastating to just all life, you know, because it just changes the temperature of the earth, the entire surface, whatever doesn’t get blasted out of the ground by the actual volcano itself. All the other stuff on the other side of the world gets f*ed. Like it’s just. It just ruins everything.

We got down to like a few thousand people. And then there was another time where one of these guys who came, God, I forgot who that was as well. We were talking about the reality of glaciation and about what happens during ice ages and how devastating it can be. And they were saying that we had gotten at least multiple times in the history of the earth to the point where it was incapable of sustaining life.

That within a few, you know, like whatever parts per million of carbon dioxide are necessary to support plant life. We literally got to the part where there was almost impossible to support life and then it rebounded and everything’s fine. So there’s so much we don’t know.

JAY ANDERSON: Absolutely, man.

JOE ROGAN: So crazy to try to pretend, you know, that people 600 years ago make this. Because we know people 600 years ago lived there. We have a lot of archaeological evidence and we have. But you have weird structures on top of obviously much more intricate and complex structures.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. And again, they share the same signatures as places like in Egypt and India.

JOE ROGAN: They think you’re a kook.

Academic Censorship and Alternative Media

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, they do. It’s just a knee jerk reaction. It’s again, it’s adherence to a status quo. And you know, you get channeled through a very kind of fine wall in academia. And I think that it can be a real detriment actually to opening up your ideas and being a little bit more expansive with what could be possible.

Because you do get put into a very restrictive format in the traditional academic sense, then obviously you have, you know, the pressures of funding and things like this and you’re not going to get the funding if you’re talking about this crazy shit. And it’s just like a self fulfilling censoring, you know.

But with the rise of alternative media, we’re changing the game a bit because you can actually put a voice out there, you can put an idea out there. It’s not completely stonewalled by the academic circle. They can’t actually prevent people from discussing these ideas in an open media format like this.

JOE ROGAN: Right. And if you put a video like you did on X or on YouTube, people can like the video that you did on the aliens. Whatever they are.

JAY ANDERSON: Whatever they are.

JOE ROGAN: People can see the CT scans.

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly.

JOE ROGAN: You see the CT scans and you automatically go, wait a minute. This is 1,200 years old.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: You’re telling me someone faked this 1,200 years ago? Like, I don’t think they can fake that now.

JAY ANDERSON: You can fake. I don’t think they could.

JOE ROGAN: Hollywood special effects guys. But then the composition of the actual.

JAY ANDERSON: The bones like cartilage and muscle tissue.

JOE ROGAN: And how would you fake that?

The Laboratory of Insemination and Cloning

JAY ANDERSON: Circling back, I texted Jesse to ask him for some insight on what. Nice.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: So what he sent me was a screenshot of a book where he got it from. Thanks. Translate. Translation here shows signs of insemination. Yeah. Jumana. I guess you broke the word for what that area is called.

JOE ROGAN: Right, right, right.

JAY ANDERSON: This is a book you found from that area, I think. And that says. Yeah. “Laboratory of insemination and cloning.”

JOE ROGAN: What?

JAY ANDERSON: That’s what I’m saying.

JOE ROGAN: Look at all these terms they use. “Yuma is semen. You may verb to inseminate. Umage. The science of insemination. Umipage wise inseminator. Yuma, scion or clone.”

JAY ANDERSON: This is what I’m saying, bro.

JOE ROGAN: “Jume to clone. Jumaj the science of cloning and jumpaj. Wise cloner.”

JAY ANDERSON: So basically, what the f*, man? You know, it’s there, it’s interesting. And then obviously go back to that, please. Again, you get alongside this kind of description. You have these bodies, you have this mad. Yeah, like this was. Dude, this was like one little 10 second clip in his documentary. And it just made me perk up. Like, wait a minute, what?

JOE ROGAN: The name of the place is like a laboratory of insemination and cloning and.

JAY ANDERSON: They’re getting a smorgasbord of different beings coming out of this area.

JOE ROGAN: Right. What Jesse does add.

JAY ANDERSON: I think he’s speculating somewhat on the etymology.

JOE ROGAN: Not definitive, but of course. Right, right, right.

JAY ANDERSON: But yeah, I mean, it’s there.

JOE ROGAN: That’s why Jesse’s better at this than me.

JAY ANDERSON: But it is interesting. Yeah, it is interesting and I think it does, you know, leads into what was happening on this planet a long time ago.

Extinct Species and Ancient Hominids

JOE ROGAN: It doesn’t. At least. Like, my point was when I was getting to the whole super volcano thing.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: What if something happened that wiped that species out?

JAY ANDERSON: Right.

JOE ROGAN: Clearly there’s no more Neanderthals. Right. Whatever happened, whether it was us or disease or whatever killed them off, they don’t exist anymore. We only have evidence that people interbred with them.

What is that thing? Is that thing maybe one of us like another kind of human? Look, another kind of primate. Look how different we are than rhesus monkeys. Right. Like, we’re all primates. We’re so f*ing different.

Why would we assume that? The ones that we found so far, including, like, would they find Denisovans, like, 15 years ago? Right, right. And then Homo naledi. What was that one? That was just a few years ago. Like, they keep finding these new versions of people. Not new, obviously.

JAY ANDERSON: No.

JOE ROGAN: But long extinct versions of people.

Underground Cities and Subterranean Civilizations

JAY ANDERSON: I think it’s possible. And I also think that there’s a, you know, a potential what if. What if a particular sub root species of hominid decided to opt in for subterranean living and they escaped a lot of the surface world traumas and were actually able to kind of maintain their society. I mean, look at all of the weird evidence we have for these vast underground cities. Derinkuyu. You would love to go there.

JOE ROGAN: My God, Jimmy just released a video on it. It’s bananas.

JAY ANDERSON: Could you imagine renovating your house and f*ing finding that?

JOE ROGAN: Renovating your house and finding there’s a room for 20,000 people under your house.

JAY ANDERSON: Would you say anything?

JOE ROGAN: I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t have to think about where I live. Depends on where I live. You live in a place where the government could just come and take your house.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Be worried about that.

JOE ROGAN: I would say in America. But if, you know, I was in America, what if I really like my house and now my house is connected, but the f*ing archaeologists want to come, like, get out of my yard.

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly, exactly. But, like, yeah, I think about this and I think about all of these different. Good, good. No, I’m happy to hear that around. Happy to hear that.

But it’s interesting. And then you have, you know, the strange stories, like from the Hopi tribe about the ant people that came during a time of cataclysm and they brought them underground and then they brought them back up, and there’s a few like that.

There was a really interesting podcast. It was years ago. I remember seeing this where they’d brought these two Amazonian shamans on the podcast, like, full headdress. They spoke their own tribal language. They needed an interpreter in the room. And the guy asked them what they thought about aliens. And they didn’t understand the question, didn’t know what he meant by alien.

He was like thumbing through this book and he put up a picture of a gray. And the tribesmen went, “Oh, that’s Makan Wabu. That’s Makan Wabu.” And they had a whole story about how this was a human that became an ant that lives underground and it can appear in the divine light. But you should be very careful with this being because it will take your soul underground. And you need a very good shaman to bring your soul back.

And they were taking it real seriously, like. Yeah, yeah, like these tribal cultures, they know, man, they f*ing know.

Ancient Memory and Post-Apocalyptic Survival

JOE ROGAN: Well, I think they have. I think there’s an ancient memory in people. I think it’s one of the reasons why these post apocalypse movies are so popular. There’s a lot of post apocalypse movies where, you know, like people, they figure out how to make houses out of wood again, and they’re surviving and they make little encampments and they fight off the intruders from the outside.

You know, real like Walking Dead type shit, but with no zombies. I think there’s a memory in us of the surviving humans. I think there’s a memory and I think we probably have been through some terrible moments in the Earth’s history where there was a enormous disaster and we are the ancestors of survivors. And I don’t think there was a lot of survivors.

JAY ANDERSON: No, in fact, I heard you talking about that the other day where you were saying about like the. And it’s something I agree with, the necessity for post cataclysm, post apocalypse, the strongmen would inherit the Earth. You know, monsters would inherit the Earth. Monsters would inherit the Earth.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JAY ANDERSON: And so if you. If we really were a hyper advanced Atlantean type civilization prior to this, maybe even more matriarchal than patriarchal, it would make sense that when things fall apart, obviously, and now you need to survive in the wild, the strong men and the, you know, savage guys would inherit the Earth because they would be the ones who would be able to, you know, push through that type of environment.

And then if that is the case and you fast forward to where we are now, look at our incredibly competitive, hyper kind of aggressive culture that we have, it would make sense that this was formed through the seeds of trauma and through the seeds of having to fight for survival and, you know, recovering what was lost.

JOE ROGAN: Yes. Which also makes sense why the past, the further you go back, the more barbaric these people are. You’re dealing and you’re like, well, it took a while for people to learn, maybe, but maybe you’re dealing with people that had to. They probably had to cannibalize. I mean, they probably had to eat everything they could. There was only a few thousand of them left.

If we really got hit by asteroids, like if the Younger Dryas is correct, it makes sense that it would take like 5,000 years for civilization to emerge again, because that seems to be what happened. It seems to be like you have literally the scraggliest survivors and then eventually the Earth gets back to normal. But even then, it takes thousands of years for people to just have a semblance of what we’re experiencing today in terms of civilization.

The Mystery of Prehistoric Engineering

JAY ANDERSON: And that’s why prehistory is so fascinating and the, the Neolithic in the Stone Age, because, okay, so this is a time when we were just basic hunter gatherers. We had no, you know, intelligence, no language, no real understanding of the world according to the mainstream.

But this is where you have multi ton geodetically aligned solar equinox and, and what’s the lunar alignment? I’ve completely just blanked just because I’m a little bit nervous of being on here. But like, you know, like equinox alignment and like alignments to the sun and the moon, mathematically geodetically aligned to what look like telluric currents, like electromagnetic flows beneath the ground.

A lot of these Stonehenges and dolmens are placed on places where you have strong electromagnetic concentrations. And just the package of mathematics and engineering and stone crafting and the knowledge of the sun and the stars and your placement on the planet to create things like, you know, Stonehenge and these other areas in the world.

How can you do that if you’re just hunter gatherers coming out of, you know, animalistic behavior? It doesn’t make any sense. And then we kind of regress as we go further into history and, you know, the stonework becomes less impressive, the things become less accurate. And I find that very interesting. How is it at the beginnings of our history, some of the most impressive structures exist?

JOE ROGAN: Exactly. It doesn’t make any sense. Just Egypt alone with the conventional timeline of 2,500 BC for the great Pyramid. Doesn’t make any sense.

JAY ANDERSON: No, it doesn’t. I think that they most likely settled around those pyramids. Most likely, most likely settled around them. And, you know, the scans, if these can be validated fully and empirically with digs and confirmation physically, then that changes everything.

JOE ROGAN: It changes everything. And you’re seeing a lot of people spaz out online.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: It’s been wonderful to watch because when people are under pressure, the real character gets revealed. They’re under a lot of pressure right now because those scans, that radio tomography or whatever the f* it is, synthetic aperture radar, it’s super accurate with stuff that we know exists.

JAY ANDERSON: Yes.

JOE ROGAN: That’s what’s a real problem for these people. You want to believe it exists. When it comes to, can map out all these chambers in the pyramid, you want to believe it exists. When it can map out things that we know that exist 50 feet underground, you want to map. You’re cool with that?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah. But one kilometer of subterranean. Oh, no, no.

JOE ROGAN: Also multiple scans from multiple.

JAY ANDERSON: Like over 200.

JOE ROGAN: Yes. It’s all the same message. Yes, they’re getting the same message. There’s pillars, enormous pillars. They have coils around them. What? Pillars with coils? All of them have coils.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, dude.

JOE ROGAN: And the whole structure is like almost 2 kilometers deep into the earth.

JAY ANDERSON: Obscene. It’s obscene. Like, laterally as well. Like 2 kilometers of infrastructure. It’s like the whole underground.

JOE ROGAN: Explain.

JAY ANDERSON: Like, yeah, help me out.

JOE ROGAN: Copper tools, help me out.

The Khafre Pyramid Scans and Scientific Validation

JAY ANDERSON: And that was my frustration when it first came out. Because when it came out, obviously I did some research into the people involved in the Khafre pyramid team. I found Filippo Bionde, I found his Harmonic SAR website where it has listed the things like the Mosul Dam in Iraq and the Gran Sasso laboratory in Italy. Places that they’d actually done scans prior to even the Great Pyramid, which was peer reviewed.

Their 2020 scan of the Great Pyramid was a peer reviewed paper. And then you fast forward to now where they’ve got these ones and you have people like, you know, Flint Dibble on Piers Morgan going, “It’s bullshit. It’s pseudoscience. It’s never been done before. It’s never been tested.” It’s like, it has been done. It has been tested. It’s actually got a patent. It’s been peer reviewed in a paper.

JOE ROGAN: Military application.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s got military applications. And Filippo Biondi, he works for the Italian government. Like he’s not some idiot. He’s a very, very intelligent man and he can speak on the science of this like, you know, articulately.

JOE ROGAN: So he works on top secret projects for the Italian military.

JAY ANDERSON: I don’t know if you caught like that little scene in Jesse where he was just like, he didn’t even say a f*ing word.

JOE ROGAN: Can we not talk about that? He just looks at him. Not a word. Okay, we’ll just.

JAY ANDERSON: Not a word.

JOE ROGAN: Figure that out.

JAY ANDERSON: Like that. That’s when you know, man. That’s when you know.

The Dismissal of Evidence

JOE ROGAN: But I mean, whatever this is, everyone should be fascinated. You shouldn’t be dismissing this if that’s not even your field of expertise. It just shows what kind of a f*ing we you are. Like, what you should be doing is going, okay, how many scans do you have?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: You have 200 scans of this. Show me more. Show me more. Tell me what’s going on. We should probably figure out what that is.

Imagine if the pyramids didn’t exist. Or imagine if it’s like, you know, the Sphinx at one point in time was mostly covered with sand. Yeah, let’s just imagine some crazy scenario where the entire pyramid structure is covered in sand and nobody knows it exists. And then someone comes along and does a scan of the surface, the ground, and says, “You’re not going to f*ing believe this, but there’s some shit under that.”

Now what if everybody goes, “That’s ridiculous. That’s preposterous.” And they don’t look. Exactly. And they don’t look. We never find the thing that we all agree exists. Because you can go there, you can visit. Right. It’s there. Right.

If that didn’t exist, you’d never f*ing believe in a million years. There’s a structure with 2.3 million stones that’s perfectly aligned to true north, south, east and west, and you’re dating it to somewhere around 4,000.

JAY ANDERSON: I mean, that sounds like some pseudoscience conspiracy. Talk to me, Joe.

JOE ROGAN: Sounds like creepiness. Why is it more kooky to say these people not only were this advanced, they were even more advanced?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, way more.

JOE ROGAN: They were down into the ground 2 kilometers. It might have been a power station.

Hydrology, Acoustics, and Piezoelectric Properties

JAY ANDERSON: Well, you know, Filippo thinks that. He seems to think that the spirals might have actually been tied to hydrology and using mechanical stress and the piezoelectric materials used in the Great Pyramid and the plateau itself.

Because what you have is a very interesting coupling between limestone and rose granite. So limestone is a very good amplifier of acoustics. And rose granite becomes electrical piezoelectric under mechanical stress. And acoustics are a form of mechanical stress.

So there’s certainly something to be said about the fact that the pyramids are acoustically tuned. Like they’re incredible inside the acoustics. And they’ve done lots of measurements and experiments on validating that. That it almost seems to go up in a perfect scale up to the king’s chamber.

And then the king’s chamber itself, I believe is focused around 110 to 115 Hz, which is interesting for neurological reasons in terms of influencing the brain. But on top of that, you have again this incredible coupling between limestone and rose quartz granite, where under the right conditions you absolutely could get energetic responses from that.

But as well as this, you have the hydrological knowledge, which is really quite impressive. And when you look at places like the Osirion in Abydos, which is a kind of sunken down temple. We call everything a temple or a sacred site, but we really don’t know, do we? We could be functional sites, could be a power plant of some form, like you said.

And the Osirion in Abydos, next to it, you have the Seti, the first temple, which is incredible. It’s beautiful and full of calligraphy and hieroglyphics. And then you have this bare, faceless megalithic place called the Osirion, which is sunken down into the ground, perpetually filled with water.

So they’ve tried to pump it out and it just fills back up again because it’s connected down into the water table. And there’s all these different shafts and hydrological components in this site that they don’t understand the full function of.

And then you look at places like the Great Pyramid, where you go down to the bottom of the Great Pyramid, you have the core, and this whole area looks like it’s been water eroded, as if it was flooded out repeatedly. And uses some sort of, like a pump or some sort of sequencing area where you push water in and then let it out. Push water in and let it out.

And so Filippo thinks that maybe these spirals bringing water up, and if you’re a thousand meters down, you’re tapping into ancient aquifers. So you could be drawing up a really impressive amount of ancient, ancient water.

And I just wonder if, same with Peru. There’s something incredibly important about accessing this kind of water at the real depths of the Earth. And they seem to have a real interest in doing that. So perhaps the pyramids are in some way, I mean, if these spirals are real, it’s like a plug, isn’t it? It’s like plugged into the earth, connected down into these aquifers. Perhaps it was utilizing water as an energetic medium through the materials.

Christopher Dunn’s Power Plant Theory

JOE ROGAN: I would recommend to anybody to check out Christopher Dunn’s book.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, fantastic.

JOE ROGAN: I had him on the podcast and he explained to us his theory. He’s an engineer.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: And he started studying the structure of the pyramid. And his conclusion was the entire thing was probably used to generate energy. And it’s like, what? But when he breaks it down, in terms of, I’ll butcher the ma if I even try.

But in terms of the dimensions, the way it’s made, and the fact that you could have something that was down in the basement that was somehow or another creating a resonance. Right, right, right. That would have this effect, the shafts that go out straight out into space. And the fact that there’s evidence that they would possibly use these shafts to pour chemicals in and it would create gases and.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, this is pretty nuts. It is nuts. But, you know, I was, when I was not the last time I was out in Egypt, but the time before then, I was out there with a guy called Jeffrey Drumm. He’s got a YouTube channel called the Land of Chem.

And he’s all about this in terms of the chemical mass manufacturing that he believes was going on in the pyramids and these other areas. And we filmed all of the coverage of that, if anyone wants to go and see it on my YouTube channel.

Taking us through areas in the Giza Plateau where you have an incredible concentration on the Giza Plateau of iron veins. And they all seem to be emanating from the pyramids. So if you go around the pyramids, you’ll see these iron vein networks that are flowing out from the central point. And these iron veins are heading down into what are called these boat pits.

JOE ROGAN: When you say iron veins.

JAY ANDERSON: Iron ore. Iron ore.

JOE ROGAN: It’s on the surface. It’s deep in the ground.

JAY ANDERSON: I mean, there’s some on the surface. So you can actually see the snaking veins of iron that’s rusted out and oxidized. And you can make it out, but surely it must be deeper as well. But it seems to be stretching out from the pyramids down into these.

JOE ROGAN: Emanating from the pyramids.

Iron Veins and Lightning Strikes

JAY ANDERSON: So his theory is that they built the pyramid. Yeah, his theory is that they built the pyramids on top of these iron veins, particularly because this place was getting lightning strikes frequently.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, boy.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I know, I know, I know.

JOE ROGAN: It’s a giant lightning rod, dude.

JAY ANDERSON: I mean, these things are built in a way, and they were gold capped at one point, right.

JOE ROGAN: And gold is a really good conductor, conductor of electricity.

JAY ANDERSON: And the Giza plateau is covered in these conductive iron vein networks, which the pyramids do seem to be built upon. Now, this is, you know, his personal theory, but, you know, he’s an American. He’s been living out in Cairo now for about six or seven years, I believe he’s been.

He just decided to up and move out there and dedicate his life to exploring these places. And so he took us across, you know, all of these amazing areas and showed us things I’d never seen before in Egypt.

But his theory on the pyramids is similar to Christopher Dunn in terms of some form of chemical manufacturing taking place. And if you know the original name for Egypt was Kemet, that’s why this guy’s got his YouTube channel. The land of Chem. Kemet is the beginning of chemistry and alchemy.

So this is one of the root words where we then got chemistry and alchemy from. So it is the land of chemistry and alchemy.

JOE ROGAN: And that’s bananas.

JAY ANDERSON: There you go. Is this. Oh, this is one of his videos.

JOE ROGAN: This is the iron ore.

JAY ANDERSON: So these are the. Yeah, I believe he’s probably highlighting the iron veins. And these iron veins head out into what are called boat pits, which they believed in the mainstream interpretation.

JOE ROGAN: You’re freaking me out with the land of Kem. That is crazy. But when did they name that?

Kemet: The Land of Chemistry

JAY ANDERSON: I don’t know when it was named that, but it was originally referenced as Kemet in some of the ancient Greek. And you know, there’s reference to it being called Kemet K-H-E-M-E-T.

JOE ROGAN: And it really means the same thing.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s what people believe is a continuation of alchemy in chemistry. Because you get so much alchemy from Egypt and obviously this is the place where you get Hermes Trismegistus and hermeticism and the philosopher’s stone kind of leaks out from these types of areas.

So I think that there is a lot to suggest this. Plus we actually know in the mainstream that they were incredible chemists. Like, regardless of exotic forms of chemistry, we know they were using acids and natron baths and things like this. Like the Egyptians knew what they were doing even from the perspective that we understand, regardless of getting a little bit deeper into it.

The Pyramids as an Intelligence Test

JOE ROGAN: But yeah, right, and you’re talking about Egyptians like Cleopatra times.

JAY ANDERSON: Right? So like we know that they were doing it historically.

JOE ROGAN: Exactly, yeah, yeah, that’s why it’s so strange. Like if this structure is proved to be real, if they start an excavation and they have irrefutable proof, like without a doubt there’s some man-made structures that are beyond description underneath the ground. What happens now? Like, what does everybody do? Like, what do all these dorks that think that that’s a tomb?

JAY ANDERSON: What do you do? What do you do?

JOE ROGAN: What do you do to all those dorks that think, like, it makes sense that they built that? It was a national pastime, It’s a national project. Come on, bro, settle the f* up.

JAY ANDERSON: I think at that point you have to.

JOE ROGAN: Well, I think the pyramids uniquely stand as an intelligence test because they are so crazy when you have stones that are so large that are taken from quarries hundreds of miles away, 500 miles away. A lot of these people supposedly didn’t even have the wheel. So what is this? You don’t think this is crazy?

Like, this isn’t. This isn’t like, oh, we know they use the wood from these trees to build these homes. This is bananas.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Whole other level.

JOE ROGAN: This is something that would take us hundreds of years today to build.

The Absence of Hieroglyphs

JAY ANDERSON: And one of the things that is said so much, but I guess it’s kind of shrugged off just because it said so much. But it’s actually a really important point to highlight. There are no, no f*ing hieroglyphs in the pyramids. Not one. There’s not a single symbol, not a single element of what we would understand to be dynastic Egypt.

And so like you have this incredible contradiction when you go to places like the Valley of the Kings and the Valley of the Queens. Gold and you know, it’s adorned in patterns. You can’t see a square inch of stone where there isn’t something filled to venerate these people. And yet the pyramids are bare. Bare.

And you know when you go inside them, you’re going to go to Egypt, right?

JOE ROGAN: You’re eventually. Yeah. Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: When you go inside them, it just feels mechanical, it feels functional. It’s, you know, big portcullises of rose granite and these shafts going off perfectly vertical off into the. You can’t even see. And there’s nothing about it that feels spiritual or funerary at all.

JOE ROGAN: Just looking at it, it looks to me like an advancement of what we are. That’s almost like indescribable. Like a thousand year advancement of where we are currently. To build something like that. It seems so nuts.

And there’s obviously stuff that doesn’t seem as nuts. It’s just beautiful and impressive. Just like the Colosseum in Rome is, or like the Acropolis. All those things are fascinating and incredible. Craftsmanship and engineering and architecture, amazing. But then there’s Egypt and you go, shut the f* up. What is that? That’s nuts.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. And I resent the idea that we’re taking it away from them. It’s like, let’s just be logical about this and actually assume. Assess the toolkit and assess the capabilities and then look at the evidence of what we’re seeing.

JOE ROGAN: Also, we’re not huge errors. It’s people that lived in the same place. So it’s literally just the older versions of them.

JAY ANDERSON: Right.

JOE ROGAN: It’s not like you’re saying, you know, Chinese people came and they did it all and then they flew back.

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly.

JOE ROGAN: No, that’s not what anybody’s saying.

JAY ANDERSON: We’re just saying it’s your more ancient ancestors.

The Timeline Problem

JOE ROGAN: It’s your ancestors, not just. The timeline’s off. The timeline seems funky. Clearly there were some amazing things that the Egyptians did during the accepted timeline. I mean, they were a fascinating culture, amazing all through till the end. Right.

But when you go really far back, whatever that is is nuts. And when you’re saying that you know exactly when it was dated, when there’s so much evidence of just today modern doing these reconstructions and fixing and all the feet of the Sphinx and they’re covering it with new f*ing rocks. Like they’ve always been doing renovations. They always do.

So all this stuff that you’re saying, like, you, we got a piece of wood from inside one of the cracks, like, bitch, that doesn’t mean anything. Exactly. You can’t date those rocks. No. Unless you get under those motherf*ers to the bottom and take a chunk of organic material from deep underneath that thing so you can know when the first stones are placed. You don’t know. You’re guessing.

JAY ANDERSON: And I think that that’s why we’re coming to a point now where there’s a such resistance from the mainstream. When you see scans like this, because they’ve built themselves into a wall, it would you basically have to admit, yeah, we’re just f*ing wrong. You’re all sorts, like, you know, them.

JOE ROGAN: Confronted by real evidence. Yeah, like real evidence. And like, just when someone takes you for a walk inside the king’s chamber and you look up at those stones that somehow they go like, how high are they in the sky? How high are they in the ceiling? How high are they? Do you remember?

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, God. No, I don’t.

JOE ROGAN: Sorry, what, 80 ton stones?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, 80 tons in the king’s chamber. 80 tons.

JOE ROGAN: How tall? Let’s look.

JAY ANDERSON: And that’s near the apex. That is near the apex.

Inside the King’s Chamber

JOE ROGAN: Jamie, please put this into perplexity. How tall is the ceiling inside the King’s chamber in the Great Pyramid? These things are perfectly placed in there. Like, even if you drag those somehow or another across the mountains for 500 miles and got it to the pyramid, how the f* did you get it up there exactly? How’d you get them all to line up? How many people got squished?

Chamber itself spans 10.5 meters long by 5.2 meters wide. How tall is the ceiling? 19 feet.

JAY ANDERSON: 19 feet. But it’s also near the top of the pyramid. It’s incredibly high up in the pyramid as well. They had to lift it to that point.

JOE ROGAN: You have to get these 80 ton blocks 19 feet and then place them. Perfect.

JAY ANDERSON: And there’s absolutely, again, there’s nothing kingly about the king’s chamber at all. It’s just completely a bare room of rose granite with this sarcophagus coming up out of the, out of the floor with a huge chunk missing.

And actually if you look at where that huge chunk is missing and you turn around and you look at the wall, there’s actually a massive impact on the wall. There’s like a big part of the wall that’s been broken off. So it makes you wonder if maybe that was jettisoned off at some point from power or, you know, what do.

JOE ROGAN: You think is in that? The. What they call the sarcophagus? Do you have a theory?

JAY ANDERSON: I mean, I said nobody ever been inside it. There’s nothing inside of it.

JOE ROGAN: You got in it.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I’ve laid. I laid down inside of it. It’s kind of creepy with a Grand Master of the Templar Order chanting over me.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, fun.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. That was my first trip to Egypt.

JOE ROGAN: Take a video of that and put it up on X and no one’s ever going to take you seriously.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I know. Right?

JOE ROGAN: Right. This guy’s a f*ing kook.

JAY ANDERSON: I am. I am a kook. Well, you have to be, you know. Yeah, you have to be a kook.

JOE ROGAN: To really enjoy this.

JAY ANDERSON: And you have to be on the fringe. And also, I think some of the most impressive scientists and creators have been people on the fringe who were laughed at by all their peers.

The Academic Gatekeepers

JOE ROGAN: Well, especially now because the way universities work is essentially there’s a person that is the most important person in that field right at that university. And there’s a bunch of people that want grants. There’s a bunch of people that want to play nice, they want their career, they want tenure. And you got to be careful whose toes you step on.

And if this one guy is the gatekeeper or a group of guys like him at various universities are the gatekeepers to this information, you’re going to come up with the current bottleneck problem that we see where people are not just unwilling, but aggressively attacking people that question this, which is why they call Graham Hancock’s show “the most dangerous show on television.”

Like, that is so crazy. You have so many shows where people get murdered.

JAY ANDERSON: That’s the best way to make a show go viral though, isn’t it? Best way to make a show go viral. Don’t f*ing watch this show. You know what I mean? Great job on the ban.

JOE ROGAN: They did a great job.

JAY ANDERSON: But it does bring up disturbing and worrying element of it, just how quickly the mainstream media in various outlets all aligned at once to call him everything from a racist to a pseudoscientist conspiracy theorist. And, you know, it is an alarming kickback that he’s taken in his stride. Profoundly. Profoundly.

JOE ROGAN: He’s a wonderful guy.

JAY ANDERSON: He’s great. I can’t wait to speak to him. I literally missed him by, like, three days when I went out to Peru. I was gutted.

Graham Hancock: The First Real Guest

JOE ROGAN: He was my first real guest.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Me and him and Duncan.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, my God, that must have been such a.

JOE ROGAN: Right from England. We got him to drive to my house.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: And then once he got to my house, we ordered pizza. We all ate pizza. I couldn’t believe I’m hanging out with Graham Hancock. I was so giddy. I bet it was like one of the first actual giddy moments.

JAY ANDERSON: Like, you’re just like, I can’t believe I’m actually sitting with this dude.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Because the guest before that had mostly been comics.

JAY ANDERSON: Right.

JOE ROGAN: Or some person that I thought was interesting, you know, some guy that I met at the Comedy Store. I’m like, what do you do? You’re a therapist. And what do you give people?

JAY ANDERSON: How’s it work?

JOE ROGAN: Come on.

JAY ANDERSON: Come and talk to me about it.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, I did a lot of those, but he was, I think, the first real guest.

JAY ANDERSON: Was there, like, a choice, like a conscious decision for you to kind of, like, evolve it from just, you know, comedians talking sharp to actually getting different guests on from a variety of subjects? Because I know you’re a curious person. You’ve probably been researching these things even at the point before you were doing that kind of podcast, because clearly you were. But, yeah, like, what was the natural evolution of that for you?

The Evolution of Curiosity

JOE ROGAN: Well, I was always into books about ancient history and whether it was. Whether it’s modernly commonly accepted narrative or Graham Hancock stuff. But I got into Graham Hancock stuff. I think in the 90s, “Fingerprints of the Gods” came out, and I fing loved it. I was so fascinated by it, I couldn’t shut the f up about it. I would tell people, you got to see this. I think this guy’s right. I think we are a history with amnesia or a race with amnesia.

And then, of course, I watched “Chariots of the Gods,” that film, which I thought was very kooky and fun. It’s very campy and fun. And here’s the thing. About that, I dismissed it for a long time and I said it’s nonsense. And I was. I actually had lunch once. Eric Weinstein took me to lunch at Peter Thiel’s house where we talked to Von Daniken and was fun, fun, fun conversation.

JAY ANDERSON: Like, interesting.

JOE ROGAN: I’m talking to. He’s a full on true believer.

JAY ANDERSON: Von Daniken. Yeah, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Of the alien theory, the ancient aliens theory, and back. See, I’ve gone in like multiple stages in my cognitive dissonance. And for a while I was all in with the aliens.

JAY ANDERSON: I hear you. I’m the same, though.

JOE ROGAN: And then for a while I was like, no, no, no. There was an advanced civilization and we’re just a rebuilding of that civilization. And that’s probably why we’re so barbaric. And now I’m like, why am I, Why are they mutually exclusive? Right?

JAY ANDERSON: It could be a mix.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. I don’t think they are mutually exclusive.

JAY ANDERSON: At one point the gods walked amongst us, you know?

The Mystery of Peru and Ancient Anomalies

JOE ROGAN: Right. And that’s when I see the things like the tridactyl mummies and I’m like, okay, okay, okay. What is that? What are we talking? Why is Peru so weird? Why do they have artwork that you can only see from the sky? Like, there’s a lot of weird sh going on here. Don’t be so quick to jump.

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly.

JOE ROGAN: My point is, like, I have always been fascinated by stories. First of all, any subject that makes you ridiculous for considering it, I’m always like, what’s that about? Yeah, why, why, why is that ridiculous? Even the cookie ones, like ghosts, Bigfoot, all the cookie ones, like, why. What’s the. What’s the resistance?

JAY ANDERSON: Why can’t a Russian astronaut tell me a Bigfoot story?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

Russian Astronaut’s Bigfoot Encounter

JAY ANDERSON: Pinch of salt. But he claimed that he had been told this by a military guy out in Russia that they were in the rec room of this Air Force base. And apparently according to this Russian astronaut trainer at the Yuri Gagarin Space Center in Moscow, he said that this yeti Sasquatch type being apparently just waltzed in, like, just walked into their record room, helped itself to some water from the water thing, waved and then vanished. I don’t know.

JOE ROGAN: So this guy, what was his job?

JAY ANDERSON: He was a trainer of astronauts at the Yuri Gagarin Space Center in Star City, Moscow, bro.

JOE ROGAN: They probably dosed him up with some MK Ultra drugs. Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: They did.

JOE ROGAN: If you’re holding on to that kind of information. Interesting story. Probably experiment on you.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Probably gave that guy some.

JAY ANDERSON: I never given the Sasquatch thing its due course in researching it, to be honest. I’ve been very dismissive of that. But maybe, I mean, maybe, you know.

The Case for Bigfoot

JOE ROGAN: I mean, like, I have the demographic years. I used to have a Sasquatch Bigfoot footprint. Like a cast.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Like a plaster cast on the desk that, rest in peace, Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum. He just recently died. I had him on as a guest on the show once too. He’s so crazy. I told him, I asked him if he was so crazy, but in a wonderful way. I said, if you could cut a finger off to know that Sasquatch was real, would you do it? He goes, yes, instantly.

JAY ANDERSON: What the f*?

JOE ROGAN: That’s your finger. Don’t say yes to that. The information just comes out. You don’t have to lose a finger. Damn it.

JAY ANDERSON: Just sitting there with off a finger.

JOE ROGAN: I think Bigfoot was a real thing.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: I think that’s why there’s something like.

JAY ANDERSON: Do you think it was just like some sort of, like, branch of creature? Because there’s so many people think it’s like an interdimensional being or it could.

JOE ROGAN: Be that too, but I think it’s Gigantopithecus.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Yeah.

Gigantopithecus: The Real Bigfoot?

JOE ROGAN: Gigantopithecus was an absolute real thing that we didn’t even know existed until the, I believe it was the twenties.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Around then.

JOE ROGAN: Find its teeth in an apothecary shop in China. And then they started researching it and finding where the dig sites were. And, you know, they found jaw bones that indicate that it was bipedal. So this is a bipedal hominid that’s 8 to 10 feet tall? Yeah. What is that? That’s Bigfoot.

And that’s probably, and also this thing one hundred percent lived around modern human beings, like what we are today. It lived around us. So imagine you see one of those things. Well, first of all, you’re going to f*ing run like hell. You’re going to have stories. This thing lives in the woods or in the jungle. Stay out of this spot. That’s where this thing lives.

And that’s going to be passed on from generation to generation to generation until even after they’re gone. Now it’s just a whisper. Now it’s just a thing. Now it’s a mystery man that lives in the woods.

JAY ANDERSON: Are there like, antiquated Bigfoot stories? Like, outside of just modern?

JOE ROGAN: Yes.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

Native American Names for Bigfoot

JOE ROGAN: Oh, without a doubt. Especially Native American cultures. That’s what’s interesting is, like, Native American tribes. There’s multiple. Obviously many different tribes, many different languages. Right. They all have a word for this thing. Let’s put this into perplexity. How many different Native American names are there for Bigfoot?

Because I believe Sasquatch is a Native American. I don’t know which tribe had that, but there’s multiple different names for this hairy creature that lives in the woods. But they don’t have names for, like, a giraffe that lives in the woods. They don’t have, like, other mystical animals, mythical creatures. Just have this one.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: And this one is a f*ing weird one.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, that’s what I mean with the interdimensional aspect. Is trait differently than just an animal even.

JOE ROGAN: Right. That might be real, too. This is part of the problem. It’s like we might be dealing with multiple different things. It might not even be gigantic. Pythagoras skookum. That’s right. I’ve heard that. Oma. That’s right. There was a movie called Oma, the guy who did the American Werewolf.

JAY ANDERSON: That’s just the last words you say when you see Bigfoot.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, my. Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: Okay.

JOE ROGAN: Chai Tanka. Big elder brother.

JAY ANDERSON: Seventy to eighty names.

JOE ROGAN: Wicked cannibal. Oh, boy. Windago. Wicked cannibal.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Windigo. I’ve heard that one.

JOE ROGAN: Windigo. Yeah, I’ve heard that before. And Yetisol. How to say that? Yetiso. Yetiso. Big God. And that’s a Navajo name. So there’s a bunch of different. There’s a bunch underneath that too.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Like about seventy to eighty names when accounting for variants across fifty tribes.

JOE ROGAN: Okay, so what is that?

JAY ANDERSON: And it’s the same with the alien grace, like the ant people.

Interdimensional Beings and Perception

JOE ROGAN: Yes. Well, and then it brings the same thing, brings us to the same subject of what if there is a way to traverse dimensions? What if this is not as simple as something gets in a spaceship and it comes here from another planet. What if it’s coming from another place? And what if that doorway is open to other things? And what if some of those things are sesquile?

And under the right conditions, this pathway is open, and maybe it’s not even something that actually exists, but you can see exist in our tangible timeline. But you can see under heavy stress, under, like, anxiety, and imagine what gets you more stressed out than being in the woods at night. Right. The woods at night creates a lot of anxiety for people because there’s all these sounds, and you’re looking around, it’s dark, you’re vulnerable.

Especially if you live in real woods, like woods that have predators. It’s scary. And I bet there’s different states of mind that you would, if there are, if there’s some sort of a possibility, some sort of a way that an intelligent creature can get to a point where it has the technology to access other dimensions, it can go into other spaces. Would you even be able to see it all the time?

Would you only be able to see it if you were like under a highly anxious state in the woods? You’re kind of a little freaked out. You’re more open to weird things. And then it senses that and communicates with you.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, we are, sounds kooky. We’re dominated by our perception and we have such a narrow bandwidth of visual perception. You know, you get up the whole light spectrum and look at visible light, just tiny corridor of visible light that we’re able to see. Obviously we’ve developed IR and you know, different.

And if you film the night sky with infrared read, you get weird sh. You get these orbs and things that seem to fly by. And I think that it is a perceptual thing because the reason I even started my YouTube channel is because I’ve had my own experiences with UFO type phenomena that were entirely initiated by me. Like I asked for them to come and they did.

Summoning UFOs: Jay’s Personal Experience

JOE ROGAN: See, that sounds kooky. I’ll take that clip and I dismiss you immediately for it. But this is one of the things that people have been saying for a long time is that there’s actual groups of people and there was even some guy who was like somehow or another connected to the government that was saying that they lead these people out, they go out into the desert and they have some sort of a secret frequency.

He didn’t want to discuss it. That they can push out, they can send out the secret frequency and it’ll call them in and that other people have done it simply by willing them in.

JAY ANDERSON: That’s what I did.

JOE ROGAN: So sitting there and putting out this message that you’re trying to communicate with them and then eventually they show up.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I can’t speak to technologically assisted psionics and all that kind of stuff, but do you want to hear my UFO story?

JOE ROGAN: First of all, did you come up with this idea on your own or did you hear about people doing this?

JAY ANDERSON: No, I heard of it from someone who’s a quite polarizing figure in the UFO community. I know you’ve spoken to him, Dr. Stephen Greer.

JOE ROGAN: But polarizing people are right sometimes.

JAY ANDERSON: He’s right on the this.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, they could be right on a lot.

JAY ANDERSON: He’s right on this. And you know, I know that a lot of people have issues with Greer, but he was actually my intro into the UFO subject. So I’ll tell you the story. Sorry about my throat. Let me just take a sip of water, actually. So this was.

JOE ROGAN: How did he find out about it?

Dr. Greer’s Origin Story

JAY ANDERSON: It’s a good question. He had a near death experience. Believe and from that was actually apparently communicated to and shown things that when he came out of that experience, he became a samadhi type, you know, teacher, of course, you know, got profoundly interested.

JOE ROGAN: That’s a great origin story.

JAY ANDERSON: Brilliant origin story. My origin story was I was really bored during COVID. No. So, like, honestly though, it was actually in 2019 that I had these experiences. And I do think that it’s very important to lay a bit of foundational groundwork because I think a lot of people will recognize this as well.

And it’s something that you mentioned with Bigfoot. Being in a high stress environment in the forest, maybe that changes your perception. And I think that there’s a degree of trauma and a degree of intense emotional moments that can bring about paranormal experiences. I don’t know why, but it does seem to be something that a lot of people relate to.

Yes, I was in a very dark time. Yes, I was having a very traumatic time, or yes, I was going through something and then this happened. And so for me, I was in my third year of university and struggling. Just had a whole mix of personal issues going on. So I ended up kind of dropping out before I finished and was just in a really bad rut.

And my dad was worried about me. And he said, look, I’m out. And it’s a bit of a long story, but it’s important to lay this foundation, I think, before I talk about what I actually experienced, because it plays in. My dad was worried. He was out in France at the time and he said, look, do you want to come out and stay at this place with me and just kind of relax and bring yourself back to normal? So, yeah. Okay.

So I came out and he was like, I’ve got these books that I’ve been reading. I think they’d be really beneficial for you. You should read them. I was like, okay. Like, you know, I don’t see how a book’s going to change.

JOE ROGAN: Does he often recommend books?

JAY ANDERSON: Not massively, no. In fact, no. No. This was the only time he recommended books, which is interesting. And they were a series of books called “Conversations with God” by Neale Donald Walsh. Have you ever heard of them?

JOE ROGAN: No.

JAY ANDERSON: Okay, so it’s interesting. It kind of ties into, I suppose, the channeled works, things that people believe they receive.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, wait a minute, I have heard of.

Jay Anderson’s Spiritual Journey and First Contact

JAY ANDERSON: He’s quite well known. He was a radio DJ, broke his neck in a car accident, became homeless, finally managed to get back on his feet, but was still struggling, wrote an angry letter to God and then apparently woke up at 3 o’clock in the morning and was having voices literally telling him to write things down as he wrote all of this down. And this became “Conversations with God.”

It’s literally a dialogue of him asking questions and him receiving answers, which he interpreted as from God. Now that is intense. And I’m definitely not here to say this is a Bible and everyone should read it. However, it was incredibly impactful for me at that time, the things that I was reading about.

It was a very different idea of God, universal consciousness, leaning towards more than some weird patriarchal cloud living figure. That just never made sense to me. So it got me in and I was reading it and it helped tremendously, weirdly enough, which I didn’t expect. And that put me on a path towards researching metaphysics and philosophy and science and consciousness. And that’s where it really started for me.

But then a couple years down the line, I found myself in another depression, in a sense, because I felt like I’d accumulated a lot of information about various different topics that I thought were like these big questions and big answers and big esoteric things. And I just got to a point where I was like, none of this is actually helping me in my life. In fact, I’m actually feeling like f*ing worse for looking into all this thing. I don’t know how this is going to benefit me.

So I was sitting on my bed one night and I just guess you could call it a prayer or just sat on my bed and said out loud to the universe, like, I need something that validates all of this. Like, if I’m meant to be looking into these big picture questions about the universe and consciousness, if there’s something tangible here, like, I need to know and I want evidence and I’m ready for it, so give me it. I want that.

And then a week later, my best friend at the time, he was like, hey, I was watching this documentary, you’ve…

JOE ROGAN: Got to check it out.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s called “Unacknowledged” by this guy called Dr. Stephen Greer. And this is my first introduction to the UFO subject. So I was like, okay, okay, cool, sit down and watch that very good documentary. All of these different high level officers and missile launch guys talking about UFOs. It got me in.

And then near the end of that is when he brings up this concept of CE5, initiating contact with these. You can actually have your own experiences by getting into a particular meditative state. If I hadn’t been making that request on my bed the week prior, I probably just would have watched that documentary and gone about my life. But it felt like a very strong message to me personally because I’d been asking for something to validate these ideas around consciousness.

Now there’s a guy saying, yeah, you can actually have an experience by going out and attempting to ask for one.

The CE5 Protocol: First Attempts

JOE ROGAN: So talk me through the process of actually doing that. Did you get it on the first try?

JAY ANDERSON: No.

JOE ROGAN: How many times did you try?

JAY ANDERSON: It was a weird gradual thing where things were happening in the sky that were enough to keep me going out, but not enough for me to be like, okay, this is legit.

JOE ROGAN: So like, how many times did you go out before it worked?

JAY ANDERSON: Before I saw what I really, really saw? Probably about a month of going out.

JOE ROGAN: Damn, that’s a commitment.

JAY ANDERSON: But I was seeing things. But they weren’t. It was kind of just enough to make me like, okay…

JOE ROGAN: What were you seeing?

JAY ANDERSON: Lots of what the contact community called flashbulbs. Flashes of light in the night sky in a void of space repeatedly without any discernible object attached to it. Just one flash and then send a thought, another flash, send a thought, another flash. And this happened multiple times.

I’ve been someone who watches the night sky all my life. I’m used to seeing satellites. I know how frequently, maybe an hour or two hours.

JOE ROGAN: And so you sit down. Are you seated?

JAY ANDERSON: No, I should be standing with my neck crane to the sky, but I would be. Want to get along. Chair. I know, I know. I don’t know. I don’t think about things properly.

JOE ROGAN: Sometimes when I do just lay down on the ground, just lay on the grass. Get a better view of the sky.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, but it’s cold in England and it was mildewy on the floor.

JOE ROGAN: Get a tarp.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah. But I was essentially because of again being, asking the universe for something. The universe seemed to be giving me some sort of response. It kind of lit a fire up under me and I started going outside.

And honestly, a lot of people, like even Greer has this incredibly complicated method using samadhi and doing various things. I didn’t do any of that. I just breathed in through the nose and out through the mouth until I felt very calm and then began to very clearly model my thoughts around the concept of I want something to respond to me.

And then I would essentially visualize that that was emanating from me, that these thoughts were emanating from me. And it didn’t take very long before I’d have flashes of light in the sky that just seemed weird because I’ve never seen anything like that. Or an incredible influx of what look and behave like satellites, but just at an incredibly high level, which is like, what’s going on here?

And it just felt like a kind of step by step progression until in August of 2019, I had four incredibly vivid and real experiences with orange orbs of light. Really profound.

The Orange Orbs: A Profound Encounter

JOE ROGAN: What was that? What happened?

JAY ANDERSON: So I was outside at this point. It become my routine. It was in the summer of August, and it was relatively warm. So I was out doing this quite a lot, seeing little flashes, seeing things in the sky, trying to figure out what exactly it was that I was seeing.

And I was standing at the back of my garden looking towards my house, night sky, crystal clear. And I saw at the beginning a flash of light in the corner of the sky. So I looked over and I saw this flash, another flash, another flash. And it was just blinking, but it was static in space. And then it started moving down. Every time it blinked, it would move further down.

And I was observing this, and then it settled above two stars and kind of created the apex of a triangle. And it was just flashing above these two stars. And I was watching this for a while, and it happened for long enough where I just decided, just, thank you, whatever you are. I’m just going to keep panning around the sky here and looking around.

And as I panned my head, I saw that there was a cloud, but I didn’t really look at it. And I turn around here, come back, and I see this cloud again. And this time I really look at it. And this cloud Joe had so strange. It’s like a dark cloud, but when you stared at it, it had a staticky appearance.

It’s very hard to describe other than imagine a light overlay of TV static that was. It was particles, it was agitated, it was shimmering. Not a cloud, certainly not anything I’ve ever seen in my life. And if we pretend this microphone is my house and this cloud is here, it’s drifting this way. So eventually it’s going to drift past my house and go this way, at least according to its natural trajectory.

It gets to my house and it does a right angle turn and it starts coming towards me. So eventually it’s going to be above my head. This cloud like formation, a cloud does.

JOE ROGAN: A right angle turn in the sky.

JAY ANDERSON: Abrupt as in 90 degrees. It’s going like this and now it’s going like this towards you, high up in the sky. But it’s now in my path. Complete 90 degree shift from its trajectory. And I saw it like a jarring. Now it’s going this way.

Okay, so at this point I’m rooted in place, not really scared, but I’m shocked at the fact that this thing did what it just did. And I’m watching as it’s coming closer and closer towards where I’m going to be. Eventually it’s directly above my head.

It sounds so crazy. And Terence McKenna said something like this. He was like, if you tell the unvarnished truth about a UFO experience, you’ll be taken for a fool. It’s like, it’s true. If you just tell people what really happened, but this is what really happened.

So this cloud comes above my head as it’s directly above my head. This cloud like sucked into itself as if there was a central vacuum, central point where it just got sucked into itself. And it revealed a triangle formation of about 25, maybe 30 orange orbs of light in a triangle.

And this triangle, basically the cloud went, triangle was revealed. It kept moving. I had to turn around and watch as it went off in this direction. And as I was watching it, I could see that some of these orbs were actually swapping formation, swapping position in this formation.

And that was the first time I saw them. I saw them three other occasions, all within the space of a month after this.

The Triangle Mark: Physical Evidence

Weirdly enough, I woke up the next day and this is the only element of the story. As crazy as the whole thing sounds, it’s the only element that makes me personally uncomfortable. I was getting out of the shower and as I was drying myself off immediately, immediately noticed where this tattoo is now. There was a triangle mark of three red. Three red marks. One here, one here, one here. Very vivid.

JOE ROGAN: Like covered it up with a tattoo.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, it faded. It faded over time. I have taken pictures of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Is it clear?

JAY ANDERSON: Yes. Can I see it? I can try and find them. Yeah. I haven’t got my Internet on right now, Jamie. If you go onto my X account and just type in J. Anderson marks on arm, maybe that will come up. I’m sorry, I should have really sent that ahead of time. But I do have images online. People have seen them and I’ve discussed it many times.

JOE ROGAN: Did it look like a wound?

JAY ANDERSON: This is the thing. So three red marks. No bump, no scab, no itching, no feeling of discomfort. There was a slight shine to them, as if it was almost like a healed over burn. And this was very vivid. It didn’t dissipate for over a year. It was on my arm for about a year before it faded away. Eventually faded away.

And then I got Hermes Trismegistus tattooed on my arm. But weirdly enough, I got this tattoo and then got invited to Egypt. But yeah, I had these experiences. I had another experience where they came down and hovered above my house.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, I asked you this. So these orbs.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, there’s. There you go. There you go. Thanks, Jamie. Thanks for that.

JOE ROGAN: That is.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: It looks like you burned three cigarettes in your house.

JAY ANDERSON: That’s what some ahole online definitely claimed, but I didn’t.

JOE ROGAN: That’s what I would say too. Online. Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: That’s crazy.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. This. I noticed it immediately. I’m not particularly comfortable with it. I don’t know what it really means. I really, I’m a bit of an idiot, Joe, because like, I should have gone to a dermatologist. I should have like actually had thing. Someone look at it.

JOE ROGAN: Branded, but like cattle, son.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, that’s branded at the same time.

JOE ROGAN: Let’s keep an eye on this one.

JAY ANDERSON: Can I even be mad at them? I was like, show me, show me. Give me evidence. I want to sign it. Fine then.

JOE ROGAN: Right?

JAY ANDERSON: There you go, dude.

The Question of Visibility and Stealth Technology

JOE ROGAN: I would say whatever that is on your arm, who knows, maybe a dermatologist could explain it. It’s just a coin, but the actual thing itself is far more interesting to me.

One of the things that people always say is, if they were out there, what wouldn’t we see them? Like, God, if they could come here from another dimension or if they can come here from another planet or another solar system, don’t you think they could probably hide?

Like, we’re pretty good at hiding, don’t you think? We have technology right now, like stealth bomber stuff. That diminishes the radar signal.

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly.

JOE ROGAN: You can’t pick them up on radar, so why would it be impossible to somehow another manipulate your visual field, project what looks like clouds on the outside. We know that we can do stuff like that with plasma. Like they can. They have these plasma things that could spin in the sky. Absolutely. It’s weird. They can make objects out of them.

JAY ANDERSON: I wonder if that was plasma. I actually do wonder if this was a form of self-organizing plasma because that’s definitely something that people have looked into quite.

JOE ROGAN: Maybe plasma has intelligence.

JAY ANDERSON: Yes, there’s some. Yeah, yes. And you know, perhaps these are a form of individuated plasmic intelligences that can interact. And one thing that’s very interesting about that, there was a brilliant paper actually I did, I did a video on it. It’s like 11 different scientific institutes looking at the idea of self-organizing plasma and intelligent plasma and they were using some references like do you know the STS-75 NASA missions where the tether broke and you. All these strange things going around the tether.

JOE ROGAN: Yes.

JAY ANDERSON: So that’s dismissed as ice particles and things like that. Have you ever seen the motion tracking version of that where someone actually attached the flight paths of each object so you can see the flight path? No, that’s crazy because.

JOE ROGAN: Do you see it?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I’m sure if Jamie looks up.

JOE ROGAN: That is a weird one. Flight path lights are going towards that thing and checking it out.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. So this is, you know, this is a gigantic tether. I think it’s like 2 kilometers long or something. It’s absolutely insane. It broke away from the ship and as it broke away you had these, well, what some people believe to be UFOs or plasmic intelligences or if you’re on the mainstream side, you’d say these are ice particles.

There you go. If you go slightly further back, slightly further back they go. Just as that green one starting up. This is the flight path. So if you just take it back to the beginning of that and this is where they’ve attached the flight paths and you will see complete 90 degree turns. You’ll see absolute stops and reversals of change. And it’s incredible.

JOE ROGAN: I wonder if it’s just a kind of life that we.

JAY ANDERSON: I truly think that’s the case.

JOE ROGAN: Lives in space.

JAY ANDERSON: I think so.

JOE ROGAN: I really do like the things they find at these volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean. They’re like, oh, we didn’t even know that something could survive down here. It could be a type of life that survives in the void of space and it just, it wouldn’t be a biological thing, it would be something form of energy or light.

Space Amoebas and Tom DeLonge’s Pentagon Connections

JAY ANDERSON: This is apparently what all the spooks were telling Tom DeLonge when he went to the Pentagon that there’s amoebas in space the size of whales and like, you know, that these things were essential. Yeah. I remember when he was on. He was on Fade to Black and he was talking about, you know, there are these amoebas in space that are.

JOE ROGAN: Like, you know, why would they tell him? And then he goes on those shows and tells like. I feel like that’s the type of guy that you tell some things that you want to get out. Yeah. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be true.

JAY ANDERSON: No, no.

JOE ROGAN: Matter of fact, it’s more fun if it’s not true. And make him say as much kooky s* as possible so that the stuff that he’s going to say that’s true looks ridiculous.

JAY ANDERSON: And now all of those guys that gave him that information are on the ageofdisclosure.com exactly. We should trust them. Right? We should trust all of these government spooks.

JOE ROGAN: It’s fun if you’re playing. It’s like the world is a gigantic escape room.

JAY ANDERSON: F*ing A. Yeah, dude.

JOE ROGAN: You’re playing a bunch of weird puzzles and you’re trying to figure it out, but nothing is what it seems.

The Rise of To The Stars Academy

JAY ANDERSON: Nothing’s what it seems. Nothing’s as it seems. I think with Tom DeLonge and the UFO subject and To The Stars Academy and all the things that have happened since like 2017, New York Times, it’s. I have opinions on it because I think I might be the first guest that you’ve had on that wasn’t already quite established.

So I’ve had to work my way up through social media, through the interactions in the community to, you know, personal relations of people that aren’t big names or anything like that. You know, I’ve had to work my way up it. So I’ve seen and been exposed to things that perhaps people like Jeremy Corbell and others who are already quite big names haven’t seen because they’re too big. They don’t need to be on social media looking at f*ing comments or like, you know, what’s going on in the X space.

But if you are like that, you start to notice things. And so what’s interesting to me, despite what anyone wants to say about Stephen Greer, and I’ve got my own issues with Stephen Greer. What’s interesting to me is that the only person really who was making noise prior to TTSA was Stephen Greer. He was the one that was putting out Netflix documentaries that were getting seen by millions of people all over the world.

And he was saying, you know, these are black budget illegal programs. This is an anti-congressional crime against humanity. We need to be busting down the doors. This is not exactly what they would want to hear if they were inside the national security state. There’s this guy out there saying this. What do you do about that?

Well, do you know how Tom DeLonge got linked up at the very beginning to all of this?

JOE ROGAN: No.

JAY ANDERSON: So he’s always been a UFO guy, and because of his background and, you know, the money, he was able to secure connections. And he was very friendly with Greer. He was best buds with Greer at one point. In fact, there’s a video of him when he’s quite young, and he’s pointing out all of the witness, UFO witness tapes that he’s got in his library.

And he’s like, you know, these are all. I’m holding onto these for a guy. He’s got like 50 whistleblowers. He’s bringing this all out. And this is before Greer, you know, kind of made the announcement. So it’s obviously Greer and Tom DeLonge on Fade to Black in I want to say, 2015, talking about this, where he tells the story of how a friend of his at Lockheed Martin calls him up and says, “Hey, we’re having a family and friends meet and greet over at Lockheed Martin. Would you want to introduce the bosses to the stage?”

And he said, “Yeah, but I want 10 minutes with your bosses afterwards.” And they were like, “Okay.” And so he went and he introduced them on stage. And then he tells a story of being taken through, you know, these white noise corridors and down into this place where eventually he was chilling with the guys at Skunk Works.

And, you know, these big directors are all sitting in this room. “Okay, what is it you want to talk about?” This is where he pitches To The Stars Academy of Arts and Science and this framework. And what’s interesting is on the radio when he’s talking about this, he’s saying you have to approach these guys like you want to be of service. You know, I was saying, “I’m being of service. I want to help. I want to help.”

So you’ve got a disruptive rogue person out there, Stephen Greer, saying all this stuff, causing commotion. What do we do about that? I have no idea. Suddenly in walks a rock star. “Use me.” Because that’s basically what he said. “Use me. I’m happy to do whatever. I am your conduit into the public.”

Now, no disrespect to Tom. I’ve met him. He’s a lovely guy, and he’s very passionate about the subject. But I do think he was used. And what you get from there is the To The Stars Academy platform. Suddenly you have this official kind of green-lit disclosure, very soft disclosure. That’s nothing like Stephen Greer’s disclosure.

And we’re all being encouraged to partake in support in this very, what should we say, curated method of soft disclosure for the people. I think that they were very worried about what type of disruptive truths might come out before it was time to talk about them. And then suddenly Tom DeLonge was a very useful medium for communicating this.

And when you see things like the WikiLeaks emails between him and John Podesta where he’s literally saying this is about bolstering PR for the military industrial complex from a disenfranchised youth, and you know, the generations of youth today don’t trust the government. “We want to change that. We want to change the perception of the military and the government.” He’s literally emailing John Podesta about this.

So it’s very clear that at the very least he was willing to be the messenger of whatever message they wanted to give him. And it just so happens that that message completely counteracts what Greer is talking about in terms of classified black budget programs that have already cracked reverse engineering. We cracked anti-gravity in October 1954. You know, this kind of stuff, it’s like complete reversal of that narrative.

JOE ROGAN: Interesting.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, interesting.

JOE ROGAN: Well, makes sense. That’s the, what’s the term? Useful idiot. Useful idiot, yeah, they love doing that.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

The Useful Idiot Strategy

JOE ROGAN: You know, you know, I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I know I’ve had people on this podcast that were doing that with me and I know they were coming on saying a bunch of nonsense, but you have to let them talk because for sure, the truth comes out in the wash. For sure.

And I think what’s interesting about the Age of Disclosure is this narrative of the reality of what happened, if it did happen. There’s lied to Congress, there’s misappropriation of funds, you’re going to need amnesty. And so this is the narrative. This narrative is we need amnesty. It’s like it’s kind of a smart way to do it, right?

Do it in a documentary, have all these people that are probably implicated in some way and say, “We need amnesty.” All these people that say that they know about these programs. Amnesty is important because that’s what I’m saying. But what they’ve been doing, really, if they have been doing what we assume they’ve been doing, we assume they’ve retrieved crashed UFOs and they’ve back-engineered. We assume they’ve used that technology.

We assume they’re aware that there’s non-human intelligences that are far beyond our technological capabilities and that we interact with them. You’ve committed a crime against humanity by not telling people that. Because we all operate under the assumption that we have an understanding of what our role is in this ecosystem of life.

And if our role is not even remotely at the apex, if we are being visited and manipulated and if we’re actually a product of experiments, you should f*ing tell us.

JAY ANDERSON: You can’t.

JOE ROGAN: You guys can’t be hanging out at Raytheon in the f*ing conference room.

JAY ANDERSON: This s* like.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, with your gold Rolexes on you.

JAY ANDERSON: Right, Right. But we can’t handle the truth.

The Case for Amnesty

JOE ROGAN: They are right with the amnesty thing. I think that’s the pathway. I mean, look, these guys are not going to. What they stole, they stole. Yeah, okay. What they did, they did with the line of Congress. The lies have been told. Let’s f*ing find out what the truth is. These guys, whatever they did, they did.

JAY ANDERSON: Okay.

JOE ROGAN: You didn’t stop it. Then let it go. The more important thing is let’s find out if this is real. That’s more important than everything for the race, for the human race, the entire human race and science and technology. To have all this stuff locked down like that and not allow the great young minds that are coming up right now to have access to this is crazy. You’re wasting one of the most valuable resources that we have with secrecy.

JAY ANDERSON: I think there’s so many different reasons why they might want to keep this a secret. In terms of breakthrough energy and propulsion systems, there’s so many different implications to that.

JOE ROGAN: Right? Massively disruptive.

JAY ANDERSON: Massively disruptive. And could you imagine some whacked out f*ing dude with a zero point energy device?

JOE ROGAN: Or imagine some guy who’s running an oil company finds out that they’re about to do something like that. Like the f* you are. How about this guy at MIT that just got assassinated in his home?

JAY ANDERSON: Dude, the wet works in the corporate world is very real.

The MIT Researcher and Magnetic Pole Shifts

JOE ROGAN: I think this is very real. This guy was. One of the more disturbing theories he had was that not only is the shift of the magnetic poles that. Here, I’ll send it to you, Jamie. But his take on it was that the shift of the magnetic poles is necessary in order to maintain. Well, I don’t want to f* it up.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, like a natural earth cycle that has to happen.

JOE ROGAN: I’m sorry, I’m trying to think and look it up at the same time.

JAY ANDERSON: You’re good.

JOE ROGAN: Here it is.

JAY ANDERSON: I’ll send it to you, Jamie. Sorry for the dead air, folks.

JOE ROGAN: Okay, so it says the assassinated MIT plasma scientists warned that Earth requires periodic magnetic reversals to sustain its field.

JAY ANDERSON: Interesting.

JOE ROGAN: No reversal equals no dynamo equals the magnetic field dissipates. The last time this happened, in the tweet it says Noah’s flood.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, sun weather, man. Oh, I know both these guys.

JOE ROGAN: This guy who has Google whistleblower.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Is that not loading the clip?

JAY ANDERSON: Plasma Physics 101. Fluid description.

JOE ROGAN: It seems like the clip’s not. Okay, let’s hear what he has to say. It’s really interesting, man. You mentioned that.

Earth’s Magnetic Field and Periodic Reversals

JAY ANDERSON: The Earth, the Earth’s magnetic field was constant in the last billion years. Roughly, yeah. Is it right that the Earth has lost 10% of its magnetic field in the last 150 years?

JOE ROGAN: And how come. So.

JAY ANDERSON: Excellent question, Alec. Thank you. So when I say the Earth’s magnetic field has remained roughly constant, what I mean is if you look over longish timescales, its magnitude is roughly constant. Of course it varies and it reverses sometimes. And those reversals of the Earth’s magnetic field, so we know reversal, meaning the North Pole becomes the South Pole and vice versa. So those happen.

And there’s even interesting stories you can tell about how those reversals of the Earth’s magnetic field correlate with many ice ages and things like this. Okay, but the idea is that if you average over these periodic reversals, right, or fluctuations, the amplitude of the field has remained roughly constant.

And the idea is that if there was no induction, if there was no dynamo working, you would. You and I wouldn’t be talking. Right. The magnetic field would have diffused very quickly. Right. In within 10 to the 5 years, the Earth would be left without a magnetic field and the Earth’s magnetic field protected from cosmic radiation. Right. And if you were open to that radiation, we. Well, you wouldn’t be here. Like I said, nor would I. Yeah, thank you very much.

JOE ROGAN: Wild. And they just put bullets into that dude.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, and you know, it could.

JOE ROGAN: Listen, it could have been a robbery, we don’t know. I mean, Massachusetts has a lot of robberies for sure. They’ve got a lot of. It’s one of them east coast liberal run cities that’s got a crime problem.

JAY ANDERSON: Completely f*ed.

JOE ROGAN: And I’m sure, you know, as a MIT professor, he’s probably lived nice.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I mean, it’s possible.

JOE ROGAN: It’s possible, but it also is possible that somebody killed him. And imagine if they killed him because he’s telling us, hey, Earth’s about to reverse its magnetic poles and we might be a cataclysm might be coming.

Ancient Knowledge of Earth Cycles

JAY ANDERSON: Well, this is, this is what I think there was a knowledge of in deep antiquity. There was a knowledge of cycles of earth cycles and they were preparing for it. You know, why, why are these structures built in a way that’s anti seismic, that’s resistant to incredible force?

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JAY ANDERSON: You know, the amount saxophone is such a good example of that. It’s really an incredible example. I mean, the level of ingenuity and also the fact that they’re finding that these walls go way deeper. Right. Because not just the excavation where they’re going deep down and finding the new blocks of stone, but just the walls. There’s key excavations going on around the walls. They just keep going now.

So it’s like this place was buried, maybe a lot of earth push up and you know, submerged into the ground. Clearly this place experienced some form of global upheaval. And what’s really weird about a place like Peru, for example, is that prior to the. Well, at the end of the last glacial maximum, around 19,000 years ago, when the Earth started to warm up again, there were certain climatologically stable corridors. And Peru was one of those areas which was actually quite climatologically stable.

So at the end of the LGM, the last glacial maximum to the Younger Dryas, it’s about 6,000 plus 6,000 and change. We’ve taken ourselves from horse and cart to supercomputers in less than 150 years. So the idea that areas of the world that had stability for about 6,000 years couldn’t create something incredible. And then the Younger Dryas comes and it takes it all away for the most part.

It’s very provocative in Peru because of again the existence of the Inca structures that are very, quite pristine actually, and still standing. Very simple. And yet they are surrounded by broken megaliths and you know, multi ton structures, structures that have gone through incredible damage.

JOE ROGAN: And what I was getting at when I was saying about that area is the way the stones are interlocked would protect it against earthquakes.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, dissipate the force through all of these different areas. It allows for the force, for the kinetic force to dissipate through the structure instead of it being focused and blowing apart one area of it. So it’s clearly done for the purposes of trying to prevent massive amounts of force.

Where would they get that type of a concept from? It makes me wonder, it makes me wonder if they did have a knowledge of great cycles. You know, like the Adam and Eve story, you know, the whole thing that was classified by the CIA for a minute. The Adam and Eve story.

JOE ROGAN: It was classified by the CIA.

JAY ANDERSON: It was listed on their Freedom of Information at Library.

JOE ROGAN: Right. What was that again?

JAY ANDERSON: It was. It was a deep research into cycles, great cycles of cataclysmic destruction on Earth by a guy called. His name was Chan Thomas, but I think that was a pseudonym for a fake, not real name. And he actually had, at the beginning of it, like a series of people he had listed who, without whom this book would not be possible. And it was like, you know, top five star generals and like, okay, so you know, this, this guy had the, you know, Chan Thomas, the Adam and Eve story.

It’s all about this great cyclical cataclysm that does take place every, what was it, like 12,000 years or something like that, and that the ancients had a knowledge of this. And I think that this is something that we will probably begin to realize is that somewhere in deep antiquity there was a level of knowledge that is very contradictory to what we understand now. And I think places like Peru, places like Egypt and others, Malta, Gobekli Tepe of Turkey, course, it’s becoming very palpable that there was something before this.

Cyclical Climate Patterns

JOE ROGAN: Also, when you see the spikes of the Earth’s temperature, when you see those ups and downs, those glaciers and those warming periods, like what? Is there a uniform time in between those spikes in terms of, Is it predictable?

JAY ANDERSON: I don’t know.

JOE ROGAN: Is it like every 12,000 years it.

JAY ANDERSON: Gets a little funky? I imagine it’s probably not for about 12,000 years.

JOE ROGAN: Comes back. Right.

JAY ANDERSON: But this is, again, this is one of the things that people in the conspiracy world would say they’re keeping from us, they’re keeping this knowledge. Yes, there are 12,000 years cycles and we are just not being allowed to know that knowledge. But that seems, I don’t know.

JOE ROGAN: Well, they have models of the past, exactly, you know, core samples and things along those lines. But we do know that it’s never static and we do know that there have been these periods and they do look like, you know, a strange graph. It’s not a flat line, like, oh, look, it’s all getting warmer. No, it’s always crazy.

So, like, what is causing these dips and these rises and these weird periods that seem to be rhythmic, you know what I’m saying? It’s not like there’s an immense time of heating and then a small time of cooling and then. No, it’s up and down and up and down.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, it’s almost like the heartbeat of the planet. You look at the planet as some form of conscious entity, as certainly capable of producing conscious beings on top of it. So I wonder about that. And the mycelial network, these kind of elements to the planet that almost seem like neurological architecture.

JOE ROGAN: Well, even if you could look from afar, if you could have the concept of the earth like the water’s moving, the clouds are moving.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

JOE ROGAN: It’s like a live thing. Almost obviously it’s not moving because it’s tissue, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not a force that’s all connected and working in harmony.

Plasma Intelligence and Consciousness

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly, yeah. I mean, that’s why I think plasmic intelligence is very interesting because it’s this idea that a self organizing place, plasmic structure, could in some way create consciousness inside of it. And we don’t understand where consciousness comes from. We still don’t. So it’s very open to the idea of possibility.

And you know, I’ve spoken to some pretty interesting scientists like Dr. Salvatore Pais, he’s the guy that was responsible for the, you know, the UFO, US Navy, UFO patents that got put out a few years back, like underwater undersea plasmic generators and things like this. He was a U.S. Space force engineer and he is very much of the opinion that plasma itself is capable of becoming conscious. Not conscious on its own, but 99% of the observable universe is made out of plasma. 99%. Okay.

Isn’t it weird how we get taught about solids, gases and liquids, but not plasma, the fourth state of matter, that’s 99% of the universe. Why aren’t we taught about that in school?

JOE ROGAN: That’s weird.

JAY ANDERSON: We, right? Do you ever think that? Do you ever remember being taught plasma in school?

JOE ROGAN: When did they start learning that?

JAY ANDERSON: Well, I mean, I don’t know, but it’s certainly before my time in school. I didn’t get taught it, you know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: So why would they. Are you saying that they perhaps are hiding this?

JAY ANDERSON: I think that there’s things within plasma physics that are so novel and exotic. These self organizing EVOs, exotic vacuum objects, projects and the science that they’re studying in. Have you ever heard of the sapphire project?

JOE ROGAN: No.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s kind of gone quiet now. Hal Puthoff got involved with it for a minute where they’re, you know, claiming to bottle the stars and they’re creating these plasmic, you know, self organizing plasmas inside these chambers that they were claiming could transform metals from one metal into gold, or you know, like transmutation of elements and complete revolution of propulsion and energy. Then it just.

Ancient Alchemy and Gold Creation

JOE ROGAN: I always wondered about that alchemy. Why were people really trying to make gold? That seems so crazy that you think you could make something like that. And I always wonder, did maybe somebody used to make it? And they have this story of how people used to make gold. Like if there was, imagine the caps of the great pyramids are in gold. Right. What if they’re made that gold?

JAY ANDERSON: Gold.

JOE ROGAN: Right, Right. What if, what if they had gotten to. It’s not impossible to assume. Like if the earth creates gold, it’s not impossible to think that we could take the elements of the earth and create gold as well. There’s got to be a way to do it.

JAY ANDERSON: Got to be a way to do it.

JOE ROGAN: Is there a way to create gold currently?

JAY ANDERSON: Nice. Good question.

JOE ROGAN: Let’s put that into our sponsor, Perplexity. How do you make gold?

JAY ANDERSON: Well, let me show you what I asked. First. The alchemy history of gold automatically brought up ancient Egypt. Metallurgy, blending four classical elements.

JOE ROGAN: Whoa.

JAY ANDERSON: So there is some sort of earth.

JOE ROGAN: Air, fire and water.

JAY ANDERSON: And you make gold spread to Greco and Roman texts via the Islamic world in the 8th century where they made experimental methods sulfur. I mean, gold plating is maybe what they’re getting at. I don’t know if that’s.

JOE ROGAN: Unless they were trying to create gold.

JAY ANDERSON: A lot of alchemies is also kind of personal. Alchemy. Alchemy of the soul. And so it’s not always necessarily meant as a physical thing turning base metals into gold. It’s more about turning you base human into a golden person. Like a lot of the times in alchemy it’s more about the personal development of your spirit and your soul. Maybe science.

JOE ROGAN: They’re clearly talking about metallurgy.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh yeah. I mean right here. So.

The Alchemy of Gold and Ancient Technology

JOE ROGAN: But I mean, if gold was valuable, it was a valuable part of technology, which it is. And it had conducting aspects to it. It’s very conductive or it’s very good at conducting.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: And you can make it. Modern methods, particle accelerators like CERN’s Large Hadron Collider achieve this by slamming lead nuclei together in near miss collisions, generating intense electromagnetic fields that eject three protons from the lead—82 protons—to form gold, 79 protons.

JAY ANDERSON: Wow.

JOE ROGAN: The ALICE experiment detected up to 89,000 gold nuclei per second during lead runs, totaling 29 picograms over years. Trillions of times less than needed for visible amounts. Whoa. That’s crazy. Trillions of times. Early in 1980, Glenn Seaborg transmuted bismuth into gold isotope using carbon and neon beams at Lawrence Berkeley lab.

JAY ANDERSON: So maybe they used the pyramids for lightning strikes to create gold with iron ore streams, and next thing you know, you get gold. That’s why they had so much gold.

JOE ROGAN: I mean, who knows? Who knows what they figured out?

JAY ANDERSON: But we should be able to ask these questions and not be—

JOE ROGAN: Well, it’s certainly fascinating. It’s certainly fascinating that people have been obsessed with the possibility of making gold. Obviously, it’s because gold is rare and very valuable. But here’s the question: Why is gold very valuable? You can’t make a weapon out of it. How did it rise to prominence?

The Sitchin Controversy and Sumerian Mysteries

JAY ANDERSON: Isn’t there some translations that are from the old Sumerian Babylonian text where it’s kind of like we were made to mine gold?

JOE ROGAN: That’s all Zacharias Sitchin.

JAY ANDERSON: Right?

JOE ROGAN: Zacharias Sitchin, though, is very controversial. I’m too stupid to know who’s right, but I do know that when I talk about Zachariah, I always talk about the website sitchiniswrong.com. So there’s a website. It seems like he was the only one that was buying into that. And when I talk to Wes Huff, he doesn’t even think that Zacharias Sitchin could actually read Sumerian.

JAY ANDERSON: Just f*ing guessing.

JOE ROGAN: Well, it might be a little—you know, I don’t want to disparage the great man because he’s not with us anymore, but he might not have been totally honest or he might have been convinced. Some people just become true believers.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, no, for sure.

JOE ROGAN: What he’s saying essentially is that he tried to learn Sumerian, and Wes knows many different ancient languages. He’s a brilliant, brilliant guy. He’s like, “I couldn’t figure it out. I couldn’t do it.” Now, obviously, there have been translations of Sumerian. There are people that can do it. It’s incredibly difficult. And it’s also apparently not related to any other languages. And it’s so ancient, it’s weird. And then the cuneiform and all that stuff. It’s like, good luck. Good luck figuring out what they were saying.

JAY ANDERSON: I know. I always wanted to wonder how he’d actually kind of come to those positions on it.

JOE ROGAN: It is incredibly complex and the only people that really know are the people that are that deep into it that they can read it as well. And they don’t seem to agree with him. But at the end of the day, whatever was going on over in that part of the world, they had a lot of discussions of things that came from the sky. They had a detailed map of the solar system, which is very weird. A 5,000 plus year old detailed map of the solar system with all the planets—Jupiter, Mars, Earth. It’s like, what’s that?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. How are you achieving this?

JOE ROGAN: What are these giant people with monkeys on their laps and, you know—

JAY ANDERSON: Gilgamesh holding a lion like it’s a little cat.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: And loads of statues and all these dudes have wings. Very, very typically dismissed as kind of like, you know, “Oh, it was just an intellectual giant, giant of power and regality.” It’s like, okay, but there’s a lot of them. There’s a lot of references all across the world to these giants. So, you know, I find that very interesting.

The Mystery of Giants and the Fossil Record

JOE ROGAN: And you know, fossils—this is the reality of fossils. There is a tiny, tiny amount of all the things that die that leave a fossil.

JAY ANDERSON: Right.

JOE ROGAN: Most things don’t leave a fossil when they die. They get absorbed by the earth, eaten by scavengers, bacteria. You rot away, the sun bleaches your bones and it’s over within a few hundred years. There’s nothing left. Occasionally you get lucky and someone or a dinosaur falls into a bog and you get evidence. But if you don’t get that evidence, it doesn’t mean it didn’t exist, you know?

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly.

JOE ROGAN: The giant one is a weird—it is a weird one. It’s a weird one because there’s so many depictions in ancient literature of giants, of giant beings. And you got to wonder, okay, are we talking about men from Iceland?

JAY ANDERSON: Right?

JOE ROGAN: Are we talking about giants that are just enormous human beings, those big chads, those dudes that do those strong man competitions? They all—the Mountain—those guys all live in Iceland. They’re all from Iceland. What the f* is that about?

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly. Well, yeah, what is that about?

JOE ROGAN: Vikings, right? They were the Vikings and that’s what’s left. But is it that? Are we talking about that or are we talking about another race of human that’s even larger? And if they found it, do they tell us? They tell us about certain—they tell us about Denisovans similar to us. They tell us about Homo juliensis similar to us, just a little bit bigger. They found a f*ing four foot skull. Do they tell us?

JAY ANDERSON: Well it’s like there’s snippets, isn’t there, from the black and white days, 1920s, where the Smithsonian kind of very quickly covered things up and this is very much the same.

JOE ROGAN: Giant bones, bones from a giant human.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, there seems to be, there’s all—

JOE ROGAN: These Native American stories about giant red-headed humans.

JAY ANDERSON: And you know, in the burial mounds supposedly.

JOE ROGAN: But here’s the thing—this is the real question. Would archaeologists, if they stumbled upon a four foot head and they were under the guidance of the university, would they shut it down?

JAY ANDERSON: That’s such a good question.

JOE ROGAN: Would they release it? I am fascinated by the fact that I have to ask that question because I would assume that if archaeologists found—right, of course they would release it. “We have found evidence of a giant, a giant human being and this might be the first one we find. It might have been a whole race of them that existed 20,000 years ago.”

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, would they tell us? I don’t know Joe, I don’t. That’s what’s weird.

JOE ROGAN: We don’t know if they would tell us.

JAY ANDERSON: They would tell us.

JOE ROGAN: They might not. The government might step in and say, “You are not allowed.”

Mount Hermon, Baalbek, and the Watchers

JAY ANDERSON: Well that’s the thing—it might supersede just academic circles and archaeology. It might get a little bit more serious. Why? The implications of our ancient history and, you know, what exactly was taking place. I am fascinated by some areas that seem to have a level of kind of theologic reference to them. So you know, the Book of Enoch and the Watchers, they descend down on Mount Hermon in Baalbek, right?

So that’s Baalbek, which is Baalbek, the Lord of the Bekaa Valley and Baal the storm god, the one that everyone, you know, talks about, the sacrifices to Baal.

JOE ROGAN: It’s also the place that has these insane trilithon stones.

JAY ANDERSON: I was just about to mention them. Yeah, that’s it. The trilithons, 800 to a thousand tons. 800 to a thousand tons apiece.

JOE ROGAN: And they’re not even laying on the ground.

JAY ANDERSON: No, they’ve been lifted up. They’ve been lifted up quite significantly. And this is the thing, man, it’s like, you know, somewhere like this, so you’ve got this weird story about—this is basically 30 miles away from there is Mount Hermon where the Watchers apparently came down from the sky and then you got these impossible blocks in this and the quarry there as well.

The quarry there you have the Stone of the Pregnant Woman, which is 1,250 tons. And there’s another one there that’s 1,500 tons. These were never fully excavated, but they’re there getting ready and they’ve just been documented in situ. But then, yeah, 300 meters up the road or less is the Temple of Jupiter, which again, mainstream academics will attribute to first century Romans.

But the first century Romans had wooden pulleys and little wooden cranes. This is insane. This is an 800 to a thousand ton block. Three of them that were lifted up. I think it’s at least 20 meters or something, you know.

JOE ROGAN: Jamie, can you please show us a photo of it?

JAY ANDERSON: I always love looking at these, especially if you can find one with a human being standing in it. Corsetti—if he’s—yeah, there’s some good gray one, Corsetti. It’s phenomenal how big these are. It’s so crazy, it freaks me out.

JOE ROGAN: It’s so crazy to think that they—we believe they use some sort of stone tools, copper tools and pulleys to get this in place. It’s stupid. And you got it out of the quarry how?

The Trilithon Stones and Roman Claims

JAY ANDERSON: Well then, yeah, that’s a brilliant place. So that’s Ollantaytambo in Peru. Fantastic area, which I’ll be showing in my next episode of Ancient Technology.

JOE ROGAN: It’s the trilithon stone.

JAY ANDERSON: Trilithon.

JOE ROGAN: The trilithon gorilla.

JAY ANDERSON: Thin stones. Yeah, Baalbek.

JOE ROGAN: And one of the interesting things that Corsetti was saying is that’s not even a place where they take a lot of tourists to.

JAY ANDERSON: No.

JOE ROGAN: So there it is. So you see the person and then look above how big those stones are.

JAY ANDERSON: This is not sensible to attribute to first century Romans.

JOE ROGAN: No, go back to just the Lebanon ones. That’s it. They are so big, that one.

JAY ANDERSON: And then there’s a good black and white one we see with the yellow. Yeah, there you go. These two little dudes sitting on top of them. Absolutely phenomenal. And then you know, the smaller blocks on top, that is first century Romans. Absolutely, without a doubt, there is obvious evidence. Yeah, they built it on top of an ancient, ancient foundation which they were not capable of doing.

JOE ROGAN: Probably a landing pad.

JAY ANDERSON: That’s what so many people say that, you know, whenever I post—it’s like there’s a landing pad for the spaceships, landing pad for ships.

JOE ROGAN: Landing pad for ships.

JAY ANDERSON: But what’s crazy about that as well? Just a real quick aside. Well, not even an aside. It’s an addition to that. Is that—okay, so the mainstream attributes it to the first century Romans. But then the Romans liked to brag about all the things they did. And third century Romans bragged about the Lateran Obelisk that’s now sitting in Rome. And the Lateran Obelisk is about 350 to 400 tons. That’s the heaviest recorded lift in Roman history.

These are 800 to a thousand tons. They never even mentioned them. So it’s weird that we attribute it to Romans, but it’s because within our model for history, we can’t—not if we’re going to listen to academics. Right. So you have to then invoke fringe theories.

JOE ROGAN: I had Rep Luna on the podcast.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh yeah.

JOE ROGAN: And she was the one who really got me to read the Book of Enoch.

JAY ANDERSON: She’s digging in. Oh yeah, she’s digging in. Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: She’s all in on the UFOs.

JAY ANDERSON: I know she is.

JOE ROGAN: I mean, is she useful to them?

JAY ANDERSON: You know, maybe though. Maybe, maybe. It’s hard to know.

The Book of Enoch and Biblical Canon

JOE ROGAN: But when I started reading it now, if that was included in the Bible, if they had, because it really was rabbis, they decided that it didn’t jive with the Torah. Right, right, right. And so they said, no, no, no, this one’s not.

If that was in the Bible and that’s what we were taught, things would be different. Can you imagine Sunday church? “The watchers came down.” But meanwhile, that is in the same area of Qumran written down as the book of Isaiah.

So all these things that are included in the Bible, that’s there, it’s all in the same world. Why are we ignoring some of it? Like, that’s really crazy. Why ignoring the stuff that seems the most kooky?

JAY ANDERSON: Again, I think that there’s probably maybe disagreements because I mean, there’s so much change for the biblical canon from all of these different councils at the Council of Nicaea, all these different censorings and changing of the Bible. It’s probably personal issue.

It could be something as simple as just someone who personally did not believe that. It’s like “that’s remove that. That’s not real. There’s no way they were giants.” But I love how at the beginning of the Bible it’s like “there were giants in those times and the times before.”

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, anyway, all over.

JAY ANDERSON: Moving on. Never mention it again. Like in any sort of real context of like, David and Goliath and a few situations. But no, I really am starting to wonder if there was a giant race that was.

JOE ROGAN: I think there was.

JAY ANDERSON: I really do.

JOE ROGAN: The Native American depictions alone.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: There’s too much story, too many stories of enormous men that they had to kill.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah. And their history, their oral tradition goes so far back.

Ancient Giants and the Smithsonian Mystery

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. I mean, imagine we’re talking 10,000 now that we know the human beings lived in North America 22,000 plus years ago. Right? So the fossilized footprints that they found in New Mexico. So that’s 22,000 years.

So imagine if 22,000 years ago these things were a real thing. How many of them have you found? You haven’t found any bones of humans from 22,000 years ago in North America, have you? No. Right, so why exactly does the Smithsonian have them? These motherf*ers, if they really do have a giant down there?

JAY ANDERSON: I think they probably do, Joe. There’s like a.

JOE ROGAN: There’s a tomb that you have to go into. It’s like a vault that cranks open the vault.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s like the history version of Area 51.

JOE ROGAN: You see a f*ing head the size of this table and you’re like, what?

JAY ANDERSON: That’s what we’re dealing with. That’s what we’re dealing with.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: We had to kill him off, maybe. Which totally makes sense. Why would you let that motherf*er live? Right? You got a 10 foot tall, 12 foot tall, that’s a problem. Yeah. 2,000 pound human.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Eats people.

JAY ANDERSON: That is a problem. I wonder, you know, always get this because, like, the Watchers themselves are never described as giant beings.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JAY ANDERSON: I wonder where the giant came into the equation.

JOE ROGAN: Well, isn’t it genetically compared to them?

JAY ANDERSON: Maybe there were slight aliens, like alien grays or something.

The Nephilim and Human Destruction

JOE ROGAN: And you know, well, look at the description of the Nephilim, how they destroyed everything.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Like they created this thing that consumed everything, destroyed everything, including mankind. Like, what does that sound like?

JAY ANDERSON: It sounds like us.

JOE ROGAN: That’s not us.

JAY ANDERSON: It sounds like us.

JOE ROGAN: Right, and also like you’re saying mankind. Like mankind. What are you saying? Are you saying aliens? Are you saying who wrote this? Yeah, like, what is mankind? What does that term mean?

I bet you’re not saying man. I bet you’re probably using an ancient language to describe whatever the dominant force was at the time that’s writing all this down. What are we talking about? Yeah, what is. These Watchers, they mated with humans. So what you are, are they. And they created something that destroyed everything. What?

So, okay, what is that? What are you talking about? And doesn’t that sound exactly humans. Like what do we do? We f*ing destroy everything. Yeah, we destroy everything. We light things on fire. We suck all the fish out of the ocean. We throw a garbage in it. We are so destructive. Yeah, we’re so consuming. We consume. You know, we’re one of the only animals that dies because we eat too much.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, right, right.

JOE ROGAN: Was he one of the only animals?

The Quantum Leap of Human Intelligence

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, well, I’m with one of the own. We are the only example on this planet of the level of intelligence that we have. I mean, it’s just phenomenal. I mean really quite phenomenal when you consider all of the various avenues of evolution that have been given the opportunity.

JOE ROGAN: We have a massive leap.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, phenomenally. But a leap that has to in some way have been intervened with, in my opinion. I mean, it’s such a quantum leap in our ability of cognition and the brain size. I mean, I do find the stone date theory very interesting. And you know, the concept of using psychedelics, and I think there’s a role to play in that for sure.

But I just think that when you have such a novel trajectory change from every other creature, every other animal on this planet, that that tells me that there is something fundamentally accelerated in humans. And whether that can just be put down to shamanic use of psychedelics, I don’t know.

I think that when you invoke again all of these various theologic stories, it becomes clear that something was interfacing with us and perhaps at once point we were interfacing with them and there was a communication and a relation that has since long degraded after, you know, cataclysmic outreaches.

JOE ROGAN: And you know, I think the evolution that came out of psychedelics and primitive man was the escape from the barbaric nature of our roots. Right, right, right. I don’t think it’s necessarily the development of the human brain.

I think it’s probably a way to also way to use the human brain with its primate background, but soften the ego and endorse a feeling of community. Promote a feeling of community and love. And the connectiveness that you get from psychedelics, it will allow you to traverse the timelines between incredibly barbaric hunter gatherers with stone tipped tools to agrarian societies where people are all living together and cooperating. And it makes sense.

But what doesn’t make sense is the giant leap to being a human in the first place. No, it’s kooky.

JAY ANDERSON: It is.

JOE ROGAN: And it’s in the Bible, in the book of Enoch. That’s the crazy part about it is that they literally describe what we’re and not just us, like many people have theorized. Like have we been a product? Are we a product of genetic manipulation? Are we a product of accelerated evolution?

The Divine Spark and Consciousness

JAY ANDERSON: Well, again, my own experiences, I just feel like there is quite obviously a vast intelligence spectrum out there, in my opinion. And I think it goes beyond our own perception of space and time. And I think that there are likely things that can come in from, you know, realms that we just don’t really believe are real, like the astral and, and you know, even the realm of the imagination is an interesting thing.

What is this place inside of our heads that we can instantaneously create anything we want. And all things, including everything on this table, once came from inside someone’s mind. Like we are excreters of ideas into reality. We kind of render reality into something that nothing else does.

And I think that there is a spark within us that speaks to what people would call a divine spark for sure. And maybe that is a divine spark. Maybe it’s a highly intelligent race that intervened and gave us that spark. But we are entirely different.

And I do think that as we begin to get deeper and deeper into kind of like the physics of our reality and our fundamental connection to it, we start realizing that our physiology, our body, is like an antenna. It’s like a technology. It’s an instrument for picking up on signals and perhaps even consciousness itself.

I don’t know if you’re familiar with microtubules and the orchestrated objective reduction theory by Stuart Hameroff and Sir Reginald Penrose.

JOE ROGAN: How many times you bring that up to people and they go, oh yeah, I know what you’re talking about.

Microtubules and Quantum Consciousness

JAY ANDERSON: I know exactly what you’re talking about. Well, I hang out with some weird f*ing people, but I just thought it might have come. I definitely have heard Duncan Trussell say to you, microtubules, man.

JOE ROGAN: Yes.

JAY ANDERSON: Microtubules, no. So I did an interview with an anesthesiologist called Stuart Hameroff, and him and Sir Roger Penrose developed a model called the orchestrated objective reduction theory. Or orchestrated or looking at microtubules, which are these tiny helical structures inside our neurons.

And I forget the exact metric, but it’s something ridiculous like 10,000 microtubules per neuron. So it’s just, you know, this incredible architecture of these tiny little helical structures that apparently are so small that they interact with quantum vibrations in fields. That’s how fine and tiny they are.

And the reason I bring this up is because I think that we’re getting deeper now with things like the Orcor theory into looking at the structures within humanity that actually seem to be receiving nodes or receptive nodes for energy that could then be translated into consciousness.

The old idea of are we generating consciousness from our brain, or are we receiving consciousness and we’re just a conduit for it. Yeah. And I think the evidence is getting a little bit more clearer that we’re a conduit. And I just wonder if that’s evolution naturally, or if that’s interaction from these others that have come and meddled with our genealogy.

JOE ROGAN: It’s a good question that we’ll have to ponder when I come back from peeing.

JAY ANDERSON: You do that.

JOE ROGAN: Let’s.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, we’ll pause. No worries.

Inside the Pyramid of Unas

JOE ROGAN: All right, where were we?

JAY ANDERSON: Well, Jamie brought something up, which is a really interesting video that I took when I was out in Saqqara in Egypt, again with Jeffrey Drum. He was taking me through, and. Yeah, this is an awesome place. So just for context before we play it. Yeah. Take it back to the beginning.

This is inside the Pyramid of Unas in Saqqara. And this is deep down inside of it, inside what they call the burial chamber. Now you see all of these, you know, amazing Arabic artwork that’s been quite, you know, relatively crudely scratched in.

Now, you see that glow? That’s actually calcite crystal, and that’s limestone. Now, the entire back of this chamber, like this wall, the back wall, the other wall, and the ceiling and the floor is made out of a slab of calcite, like crystal.

But what’s really interesting about this is that when you take a flashlight and you put it in a certain angle on this wall, something very interesting appears. Boom.

JOE ROGAN: Huh?

The Ancient Laboratory of Saqqara

JAY ANDERSON: An otherwise invisible etching of an individual. You can see the navel, the belly button, and the arms. And this is completely invisible until you get that flashlight.

Now, these have been actually smoothed into the calcite crystal itself. And then obviously, these Aramaic writings and pictographs have been scratched on afterwards. So clearly this is the original artwork of this chamber, but it’s not perceptible without a very specific angle of light that creates the shadows. And these are on the other side of the wall as well. I think in this clip, maybe he doesn’t show it, but very, very strange.

Now, this entire pyramid is acoustically profound. I mean, the acoustics inside of this are unbelievable. The amount of echo that you get and the entire Saqqara site. We went around it. And I mean, my God, it’s a weird sight, man. You’ve got, again, just incredibly huge slabs of rose quartz granite.

And there’s one area that’s on the other side of the pyramid, not even near the entrance, which is just this huge portcullis made of granite with interlocking pieces, where clearly another piece of stone was slid between them. But this is nowhere even connected to the pyramid infrastructure, and they don’t say anything about it.

Strewn across this entire place, you’ve got huge blocks of granite with drill holes in them. You can see the striation marks going all the way through them. And his opinion, Jeffrey’s, and I think there’s merit to it, because in Cairo Museum, there’s a little cabinet of laboratory equipment, like jugs and apothecary bottles that were recovered from Saqqara, including a little plate.

There’s like a little plaque. This wasn’t included. This is put into the actual exhibition, but it’s tucked into the corner of Cairo Museum. You have to find it and you have to really look for it. There’s a little plaque saying that the area of Saqqara was a laboratory.

And again, this completely contradicts all of the things that they say about ancient Egypt. But it’s in the Cairo Museum. It’s literally written as the “Ancient laboratory of Saqqara.” And so, you know what’s going on there? Why is there a contradiction like that that’s being acknowledged? And it’s truly just an incredible place of these shadow figures and the acoustic resonance of the site, the Rose Granite.

JOE ROGAN: So why do you think that it was originally these carvings were in the wall and then they wrote on it afterwards?

JAY ANDERSON: Well, I think it’s just another case of a later civilization coming across an incredibly amazing place and carving on it. Maybe they didn’t even see these figures, because you have to have a very specific type of light to actually be able to see them. You have to get it at that angle.

JOE ROGAN: It’s possible to detect by looking at it there’s some variation.

JAY ANDERSON: I mean, you can see when you actually know what you’re looking at, but barely anything. It’s really hard to perceive. So maybe they didn’t even know that these things were down there when they went.

There’s another part of this when you’re going through the chambers where it’s rose granite, rose granite and then plaster, where you’ve got hieroglyphics put on the top, and you can actually see the plasters kind of bleeding off into the rose granite. So it feels like they found it, they slapped some hieroglyphs on it, they put their own veneration around it, but it was not an original structure of the Egyptians.

Once again, a place that they found and settled around. But it’s just weird that in the Cairo Museum you have this tiny little shelf full of beakers and measuring jug type things and it says that the lab complex of Saqqara. It just doesn’t make any sense in comparison to what they’re trying to tell us is the reality of this place. So that’s weird.

JOE ROGAN: It’s all weird.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s all weird. Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: That’s why the bottleneck of talking about this stuff is so infuriating.

The Serapeum: Precision-Machined Sarcophagi

JAY ANDERSON: This is the same place, by the way. We have the Serapeum, you know, the 80 ton boxes that are precision marble top. The ones that Christopher Dunn went down into and was like, these have been machined.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, machined. Pull up photo of those, please. They’re strange.

JAY ANDERSON: Mm.

JOE ROGAN: What do you think they were doing with those things? What was the purpose?

JAY ANDERSON: Well, you know, what’s interesting is what was the drill? So these things are absolutely incredible. And there’s a few questions with this one. If you go onto that image. Zoom out. Just go to that image on the right where you’ve got the entrance. Yeah, this one here.

So this is the entrance into the Serapeum, or the Serapeum, however you want to pronounce it. It’s a subterranean labyrinth and these corridors are extremely small. There’s actually a half finished one sitting in the middle of a corridor and you can kind of really get a scope for the size.

But these are 70 ton, 70 to 80 ton granite sarcophagi. They attribute it to the Apis bulls. They say that there was a cult around this region that venerated the Apis bulls and that these were burial chambers for the Apis bulls.

But, you know, what’s funny about that is the only thing they have to evidence this is no bones of bulls or anything like that. What they have is a single hieroglyph on one of these boxes of a bull. That’s it. They have a hieroglyph with a bull on it. And that’s why they attribute it to the Apis bulls.

Regardless of the fact that these are precision carved 80 to, you know, 70 to 80 ton granite, marble top smoothed boxes with even more precision inside. They’re even more precise on the inside, which is strange. You wouldn’t necessarily need them to be that precise if they’re just funerary boxes. But the precision is actually more impressive internally than it is externally.

JOE ROGAN: How long would it take to make one of those? Make it. Move it, put it in place. That bull’s long dead. Let it go.

JAY ANDERSON: Let it go.

JOE ROGAN: By the time you finish that thing.

JAY ANDERSON: Nuts, man. Absolutely nuts. And this is one of the big things that Christopher Dunn saw and was just like, nah, nah. There’s just no way.

JOE ROGAN: Look at the people standing next to those stones.

JAY ANDERSON: I’ve been inside one of these.

JOE ROGAN: That someone moved it there and then put that other one on top of it.

JAY ANDERSON: Unbelievable.

JOE ROGAN: When. Who? How?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. And again, you know, to say…

JOE ROGAN: That’s not a mystery is nuts.

JAY ANDERSON: It is nuts.

JOE ROGAN: And…

JAY ANDERSON: And also if you go on that image where they’re shining a light and someone’s leaning on it on the right hand side. Yeah, that one. So many of these, the boxes themselves are so precise, but the actual writing is extremely crude. It’s been scratched on. It’s basically just been scratched on.

And a lot of them, it kind of feels like, as a lot of these pharaohs did, they just went and slapped a cartouche on it. “I own this. This is mine.” And so the exterior work contradicts the advancement of the actual box itself. It doesn’t make sense.

There’s only one in here that’s actually got 3D actual carved in artwork. And that one actually does make sense. But these ones are all chicken scratch. It’s just been scratched on.

JOE ROGAN: Which is what people do.

JAY ANDERSON: Which is what people do.

JOE ROGAN: I mean, a lot of history of human beings doing that to ancient things.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. If you got that third image, actually, that’s an interesting image because you can actually see these dimples where they’ve smoothed out the stone. And what’s weird about this is that if these were funerary boxes, you would expect the external to be the most impressive because that’s what people are going to see. Right.

But instead you actually have a lot of malformation on the boxes. And one of the theories about this, and this is something that Jeffrey Drumm brought up for me, is that whatever was going on inside of these cases, the exterior had to have absolutely zero critical imperfections.

So any cracks, anything that was problematic would have been dissolved out, smoothed away. And you have this weird kind of dimpling on a lot of these. And somewhere you can actually see a crack where the crack’s been removed and it’s been kind of smoothed out. And then inside it’s like 90 degree, just perfect.

And so it just kind of contradicts the idea of it being for a funerary purpose. You’d expect the outside to be absolutely perfect and beautiful, but it’s not. It’s all kind of mal shaped and as if they were trying to remove any sort of cracks, anything that could cause a structural problem. And then inside they’re perfect. So it does make me wonder about the real purpose behind these.

JOE ROGAN: Why are you assuming that it would be cracks? Why wouldn’t it just be that they didn’t have a need to finish the top of it? Because some of them finish carpentry.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, some of them are finished quite profoundly. And then you have others that have got these big dimples in them where it just looks like they were trying to remove anything that might have been a critical damage to the structure. Obviously this is guesswork.

JOE ROGAN: The purpose of that would be to keep it from cracking, to keep it…

JAY ANDERSON: From cracking all the way through. I just find it very interesting that the inside is more impressive than the outside for something that’s meant to be viewed as a funerary box.

JOE ROGAN: Right. An enormous funerary box, an enormous funeral box. Does anybody have a wacky, far out theory of what they were actually for?

JAY ANDERSON: I mean, there’s always some. I mean, one of them I find interesting is the idea that they could be some form of a sound bath, like an isolatory chamber where they would go into and have some form of experiences.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, you gotta count on someone to move that f*ing thing, you know.

Archaeoacoustics and the Hypogeum of Malta

JAY ANDERSON: There’s such a strong, there’s such a strong element, evidential trail of acoustic sciences in the ancient past, especially archaeoacoustics, in terms of the actual architecture itself, like the pyramids, they’re designed to resonate.

One of the most interesting places that I’ve been to in terms of looking at the acoustics of places as well, is Malta, the island of Malta. And the island of Malta is very interesting because when the Bronze Age settlers from Sicily and other areas of Italy came over to Malta for the first time, they discovered an island that was absolutely littered with megalithic sites.

And Malta has got the highest concentration of megalithic sites in the world. But there were no people. They all gone. No one knows who they were. It was just a land full of these incredible megalithic temples, and one in particular called the Hypogeum of Hal Saflieni.

Now, the Hypogeum is fascinating, dude. It’s a subterranean, huge temple that was discovered by road workers. And they were literally just chipping away at the road and then it collapsed in. And they find this huge, what they call a necropolis because they found hundreds of skeletons down here.

This thing is incredible. This is all carved out of the limestone, and it is a overlapping geometric series of chambers that is so obviously acoustically tuned that if you actually, if you wanted to research hypogeum acoustics, it will come up with studies where they’ve noticed that this is absolutely a deliberately acoustically tuned complex.

Go on the actual website, not images. That’s an interesting one. Whether or not it’s entirely accurate, someone’s comparing the Hypogeum to the human ear specifically because of the fact that this place absolutely is acoustically tuned to resonate between 110 and 115Hz, which is the bandwidth to activate certain brain states, like alpha and theta brain, where you can get into more meditative states of consciousness.

And only 20% of this site is accessible to the public. 70% of it’s locked off. And they treat it like a SCIF. They take your phone, they take your camera. You can’t bring any audio recording devices into it. Nothing. Very curated. Tour for 30 minutes and then out.

JOE ROGAN: Why 70% of it locked off?

JAY ANDERSON: That’s a great question. They say it’s for preservation of the site because it’s such a delicate Neolithic. It’s prehistoric. They believe it’s prehistoric. And again, this speaks to what was going on in prehistory, because this is an acoustically profound series of chambers that have been carved out of the limestone bedrock by people that we attribute bone antler tools to. They were chipping away at it with bone antler tools and they made something as profound.

JOE ROGAN: So when you say prehistoric.

Ancient Megalithic Sites and Acoustic Architecture

JAY ANDERSON: Well, they dated to, I think, about 5,000 years ago. About five. Yeah. Mainstream. Mainstream.

JOE ROGAN: What?

JAY ANDERSON: Mainstream, yeah, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Carved.

JAY ANDERSON: Carved.

JOE ROGAN: It’s carved out of the bedrock.

JAY ANDERSON: Out of the bedrock? Out of the bedrock. It’s huge, huge thing. And what’s even weirder about it is that they found all these elongated skulls at the bottom of it. And one of, I’ve seen one personally, I went to the Museum of Valletta in Malta and saw one of these elongated skulls.

What’s very interesting about these skulls is that they actually lack the sagittal suture that we have going down the back of the head. So, you know, we have this sagittal suture which pushes the growth plates together as you come through the birth canal. Not that one, the third one. The. Sorry, the fourth one. That one.

And then there’s other images which are actually the one below it where you’ve got skulls recovered from the hypogeum. Yes. So this is an elongated skull. This only got the horizontal. Horizontal suture. No vertical suture, which is what all humans have, a vertical sagittal suture.

Now, apparently, hundreds of elongated skulls were discovered in the Hypogeum, but only a couple of them are on display in Valletta. And I’ve got a couple of friends who are in. Have you heard of the Knights of Malta?

JOE ROGAN: No.

The Knights of Malta and the Hypogeum Mystery

JAY ANDERSON: It’s a kind of a secret order, a bit like Freemasonry. It’s spawned from the Vatican. The Vatican basically threw these people into Malta and said, “F* off and go do your weird stuff over there.” But now it’s a very connected. Did you know, kind of like with the Vatican order, the Knights of Malta, very powerful, a very powerful group, very much in the geopolitical world stage.

And a friend of mine who’s within that was like, yeah. They bring out this book once a year in the Valletta Museum and it’s detailing the skulls of the Hypogeum and apparently tells a story of how the locals would throw bodies down, down there, because there are beings down there that they wanted to prevent from coming up to the surface.

And this is the strange thing is the hypogeum is full of normal human bodies. Hundreds, not buried with respect, but just piled down there and then also elongated skulls. And the story is, according to this very ancient book that they bring out and put out once a year you have to be lucky to catch, apparently describes that they were using this as a place to discard bodies, to prevent these creatures from coming up to the surface. They were feeding them, feeding them, feeding them.

JOE ROGAN: So when people would die, they would just throw them down that hole. Or when people are bad people, maybe.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah, throw them down that hole.

JOE ROGAN: To these elongated skull things were eating people.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, that’s, that’s, you know, the connections we might make from that kind of connotation from these books. But that’s, that’s certainly something that is rolled out in the Valletta Museum once a year, if you get to go there and see it. So that, you know.

JOE ROGAN: Is that like an ancient version of Scientology? Somebody make all this up?

JAY ANDERSON: Dude, I don’t know, but. Well, I mean, in terms.

JOE ROGAN: Very strange that there’s the hypogamus human skeletons down there.

The Oracle Room and Psychoacoustic Architecture

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, yeah. I mean, they did find a profound amount of them, which is why the mainstream labels it as a necropolis. But there’s no burial respect being done. It was just piles of bodies. Like piles of bodies. And again, it’s just so profound. This is called the oracle room. Yes, the oracle room. Yeah. This is where the sound concentrates. The acoustic scripture I found here these two paragraphs. I guess it’s going to be a little long, but it’s not that long.

JOE ROGAN: During testing, a deep male voice tuned to these frequencies stimulated a resonance phenomenon throughout the hypogeum, creating bone chilling effects. It was reported that the sounds echoed for up to eight seconds. Archaeologist Fernando Coimbra said that he felt the sound crossing his body at high speed, leaving a sensation of relaxation.

When it was repeated, the sensation returned. And he also had the illusion that the sound was reflected from his body to the ancient red ochre paintings on the walls. One can only imagine the experience in antiquity standing in what must have been somewhat odorous dark and listening to ritual chant while low light flickered over the bones of one’s departed loved ones. Holy.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, dude. Might have felt like what drugs do to us. Yeah, so.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, so they made a drug house.

JAY ANDERSON: She goes on to state. Yeah, under right circumstances, ancient populations were able to obtain. Yes. Different states of consciousness without the use.

JOE ROGAN: Of drugs or chemical substances or maybe in.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah. This is coordination. This is the Monroe Institute of Applied Sciences and binaural beats way, way before we were around. This is the original called psychoacoustic architecture. The idea that ancient architecture is designed in a way to propagate acoustics that affect the human brain.

JOE ROGAN: Now imagine this is 5,000 years ago. And where did you learn that from? How did you do that? Did you fail? Did you learn. What’s the science?

JAY ANDERSON: And another interesting.

JOE ROGAN: How do you know?

Connections Between Malta and Ireland

JAY ANDERSON: Element is there are a lot of temple sites in Malta that look weirdly similar to Newgrange in Ireland. And Newgrange is another psychoacoustic temple, if you want to call it a temple. It’s a huge mound if you look it up. But within it, they’ve done again, acoustic studies, and it propagates infrasound sound below the threshold of human hearing.

And that’s the stuff that reverberates through your chest cavity, through your bone structure. That’s what that guy is describing. It’s infrasonic sound. You know, when you’re like, this is it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there’s a holds that. Again, the Neolithic. I don’t know the exact date, but it’s Neolithic.

And these spiral patterns are in the hypogeum. Those spiral patterns are in the hypogeum in red ochre. This is Ireland. The same structure that’s very famous Irish. This, this, by the way, is incredible because it’s completely singular. There’s no break in the line. That’s a very hard piece of geometry to actually create at the time as well.

It’s extremely complex because all of this feeds into itself. There’s no break in that line. It’s a very complex geometry. But that same type of geometry is also found in the hypogeum and it’s found in red ocher on the painting. These swirling. These swirling kind of motifs. So it’s very interesting, you have these weird correlations between places that were separated by entire oceans in Neolithic time.

JOE ROGAN: Do you think they represent sound waves?

JAY ANDERSON: Yes. Yeah. I think it’s about the flow of acoustics, the flow of movement and sound. And that was perhaps their interpretation or perhaps they had a visual hallucination that gave them the idea of it being this kind of like swirling pattern.

But yeah, I find this island. Yeah, this is Ireland. And there’s just some striking similarities between places like this and places in Malta. So again, it just leads into the idea that there was perhaps a, you know, globally maritime connected civilization that was using these psychoacoustic attributions in sites to produce novel effects of consciousness, you know, inducing brain hemisphere synchronization, just like they’re trying to do in my a with the same CIA.

JOE ROGAN: And here’s the real question. How did they learn.

JAY ANDERSON: How did they learn how to do that?

JOE ROGAN: How long did it take before you figured out how to carve that out of a mountain?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, exactly. You know, these are the questions that are absolutely not being answered by our understanding of history. These are the, you know, the red ocher. The more rough ones are the ones in the hypogeum. Incredibly old. Also. Also a very good. Yeah, like it’s not.

JOE ROGAN: Other cultures have that as well, right? Those spirals.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah, that’s what I mean. So that right there is also in Newgrange in Ireland, like pretty much the same. It’s right.

JOE ROGAN: But not just two places. There’s some other places.

Global Acoustic Temples and Ancient Sound Science

JAY ANDERSON: The swirling motif is one of the oldest. I mean, it is one of the oldest. It’s everywhere. But the implication of it being about sound is very interesting when you find it represented in places that are absolutely acoustic. Tuned from prehistory. Yeah, dude.

Like, you know, it’s weird. There’s another one in Peru called Chavin de Huantar, which is a. There’s a temple built above it. This is another thing that you find. I mean, this one in Malta they haven’t done this, but you do definitely seem to find layering like Gunung Padang in Indonesia, where you have like the original structure below and people just piling up on top of it over time.

So in Chavin de Huantar in Peru, you have this amazing temple site, but below ground is a labyrinth of corridors that also propagate acoustics to the point where it brings up infrasound. So below this is an infrasonic laboratory essentially of labyrinthian passages that we used for ritual acoustics.

And they actually found inside of this conch shells that had been purposefully re-engineered to produce a new harmonic when blown into them. Like they had actually changed them into a different type.

JOE ROGAN: They’d go in the acoustic chambers and.

JAY ANDERSON: Blow them, the conch shells, and someone would obviously be walking through this, perhaps as a form of rite of passage.

JOE ROGAN: Could you imagine going back in time?

JAY ANDERSON: I know, man.

JOE ROGAN: I really want being a fly on the wall.

JAY ANDERSON: I wish we could. Yeah. So that, you know, it’s not incredibly profound stone masonry, but it does produce infrasonic reverberation. They have proven that and looked it up and. And yeah, the conch shells were found there that have got all of these designs on them and have been purposely changed to produce a different sound.

So there is a clear lineage of acoustic science. Way before acoustic science was acoustic science, you know, at least to our terms. So brings up big questions. And the fact that it was influencing consciousness. I think that we just had an incredibly intelligent but shamanically orientated society at one point.

You know, we were using our human ingenuity, but we were using it to create effects more spiritually aligned than anything else. And, you know, these are all chambers for inducing expanded states of consciousness.

The Technology Question

JOE ROGAN: The real question, though is what technology were they utilizing for the construction? That’s the real question. Especially when you get to the megalithic stuff.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: What were they doing? Like, what is this? Because this is not what we’re saying it is. There’s no way this is stone tools. There’s no way this is copper. This is something nutty.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, that’s why the nubs are interesting, because it almost seems like the stone was being softened and perhaps like, you know, if you were pulling a spoon out of hot toffee, you’d get that pullback. Right. You get like a little kind of protrusion.

JOE ROGAN: Wouldn’t you want to smooth that down, though?

JAY ANDERSON: They do and they don’t. That’s what’s really weird about it, especially in Peru. Peru has so many stone nubs. Like there’s a place in Peru called the Qorikancha, which is like the kind of main temple in Cusco, the Sun Temple.

And you know, these precision. There’s various layers of architecture in Peru, albeit it’s all being attributed to the Inca, which is weird rough cut stonework. Then the weird megalithic kind of smushed together stones. Then you have what’s called ashlar stonework, which is where it’s like a bunker.

If you look at the. It’s spelled with a Q, Q, O, R, I, K, A, N, C, H, A, Qorikancha. If you look it up like. And look in. Yeah. So you have to go inside it really, to really get this. The bunkers inside of it. Look at the wall on the outside. Actually, real quick, before you do that, if you click on one of these images and just, just enlarge it, the first one’s probably the best one.

Yeah. So that’s ashlar stonework, that bottom bit, that is original. This was built by the conquistadors. Right. The rest of it’s been built up by the conquistadors from Spain. But this original stonework is also represented inside with these incredible bunkers. So if you type in like bunker, it’s got.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JAY ANDERSON: Like this image here. Like, the level of precision on these is absolutely phenomenal. I mean, we’re talking just complete, precise fitting stones. Not globular like Sacsayhuamán, like marshmallows, but just precise blocks. Like these bunkers here. Yeah, like down here, this is all original work. And then they built a, you know, Spanish inspired temple over the top of it.

JOE ROGAN: So what you’re asserting is that this was here first?

The Mystery of Stone Nubs and Ancient Language

JAY ANDERSON: Yes. Yeah, yeah. This stuff, it was here first. Like this stuff was absolutely here first. And if you look up, there’s a little nub, little stone nub right at the top there. And they, but some of these walls have like 10 nubs on them. Like one here, one here, one here. And then there’s none. So it’s like they were smoothing out some of them, leaving others.

Some have speculated that it’s a form of language, because in Peru, the Inca. Do you know what the Inca language was? Their written language. It was called khipu, and it wasn’t written. It was pieces of string with knots on them in different colors. That was their historical language. So it was literally like a line of different strings, different lengths, different colors, with little knots in them, which corresponded to data.

And most of this was lost by the Spanish conquistadors because they went over there and was like, “burn this sh*t. Burn this pagan nonsense.” Yeah, this is.

JOE ROGAN: This was their language. Oh, my.

JAY ANDERSON: This was their language. And it just made me wonder. Obviously this is a complete guess, but it just made me wonder if, like, the stone nubs are stone khipu. Is it a stone version with all these different nubs on different places and different areas? Because it just feels like, especially in the Coricancha, which is a temple, it’s a regal temple. Why would you leave the nubs on? Like you said, why wouldn’t they smooth these down?

So it’s almost like it’s meant to tell us something, and they’re left in very specific areas. Then in Peru, you get stone nubs protruding straight out of bedrock. That’s what weirds me out, is that it’s not just on the crafted stones, but like a sheer rock face that’s been obviously kind of quarried down by some unknown technique without any chisel marks, just straight. And then you have, like a group of nubs coming out of the stone.

So Peru is just full of contradictory architecture. And I think that, you know, the Spanish went over there and they saw places like Sacsayhuamán, and they attributed to the Inca, you know, they attributed the Inca, the Inca. The Andean shamans say it’s not the Inca. The Inca themselves to the Spanish conquistador said, “we found these places,” but we take the words of the Spanish conquest and we apply it to our knowledge set and we teach that.

And it’s just like I was saying to you before, we’re basing so much of our history off of, like, the word of people from, like, the 1800s, when clearly we’re seeing contradictions of that. Even in, as Graham Hancock would certainly say, the oral traditions of the local region, the people are saying differently, but we’re listening to the foreigners who went over there and destroyed things and burnt things and burnt the khipu and went back and taught us what their civilization is all about. It doesn’t make any sense.

JOE ROGAN: Wow.

JAY ANDERSON: But yeah, Peru’s, Peru’s fascinating, dude. Peru is one of the most interesting places I’ve ever been.

JOE ROGAN: And it has, it had the same level of discovery of.

JAY ANDERSON: Not like Egypt.

JOE ROGAN: No, no.

Undiscovered Sites in Peru

JAY ANDERSON: I mean like there are, there are areas in Peru. In fact, shout out to my friend Raul Bilecki from Pillars of the Past. He’s a guy who’s out there in Peru, literally just going out into the middle of nowhere. He’s found pyramid sites in the middle of nowhere that have absolutely zero, zero recording, no excavation, no study, no name, just they don’t exist in the record. But they’re out there in the middle of nowhere in Peru. And so like Peru, how many? He found a pretty impressive complex, actually. He found a pretty impressive complex. He’s got videos of it, like drone footage. So it’s like one of the places.

JOE ROGAN: Where you could actually still be a real explorer and find.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, if you, if you want to go off into the Andean mountains. Like he’s finding stuff in the Andy. High up in the mountains that nobody’s documented. Like nobody’s seeing it. He’s a real, you know, real adventurer. But it just proves that. Yeah, like you said, there are still places like this where you can do discovery. That’s. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Peru’s. That is really.

And then obviously you have the Amazon rainforest and like, you know, right. All of the things that could be in there through LiDAR, we’re already seeing so much geometry, so much evidence that there was a massive amount of civilization going on in that jungle. So, you know, this is, you know, getting very interesting to me.

And again, this weird climatological stability through the last glacial maximum to the Younger Dryas, this period of about 6,000 years where they had access to development without being disturbed. So, you know, you have these incredible anti-seismic, anti-earthquake megalithic structures in Peru using materials that they shouldn’t have been able to use, using multi-ton stones. That’s an interesting area. Although I will say that it, but it’s made out of tuff, which is volcanic rock. Very easy to cut because it’s actually compressed ash. So that’s a really cool place. But it’s not as mind blowing in terms of how they cut the rock because it’s extremely soft rock.

JOE ROGAN: So this is doable.

The Diorite Mystery at Sacsayhuamán

JAY ANDERSON: This is doable, this is doable. But there are other things. In fact, if we could, could you go on my YouTube channel real quick? This is, this is. There’s an area in Sacsayhuamán which has got. There’s a diorite outcrop, which is an incredible hard stone. There’s a measurement of hardness scale that goes up to 10, with diamond being the hardest, and diorite sits at about 6.5 to 7 out of 10, whereas bronze sits at 3 to 3.5 out of 10.

So, you know, there’s a discrepancy with the hardness of the material to start with, but yeah, yes, there’s. If you go back to the beginning of it. Sorry, I wish I could see the screen. It’s going to be difficult, I think. Keep it plain, though. I’ll talk about this and they will come up in a moment, I’m sure.

But all across Peru, you have these incredibly precise cuts into bedrock with very little evidence of any sort of chisel marks and no real understanding of how they were able to excavate it. You know, these incredible, just voids into the rock. But there’s one area in particular. This is just the beginning of my video, but there’s one area in particular in Sacsayhuamán which is this gigantic. In fact, you could probably just type it in if you typed in Sacsayhuamán, Diorite steps or something like that. I know. S-A-Q, S-A-Q, S-A-Y. Sacsayhuamán. W-A-M-A-N. Yeah, Sacsayhuamán, Diorite steps. Diorite spelled. Sorry, mate.

JOE ROGAN: Dior.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. D-I-O, R-I-T-E. It’s all right, brother. But I mean, like, we’re. I think we’re actually getting. I just trying to listen while I’m typing and it’s. No, I know. Sorry, dude. But yeah, so. Yes, yes, that’s the one. So this is diorite. This is incredibly hard stone.

To give some context, you know, the stones at Sacsayhuamán are extremely impressive, but they are made of limestone, a little bit softer, bit more workable. This is impossible. If you can find a HD, I’ve got a 4K video of this. Like, that’s why I wanted to see it in that video. But if you can find a HD image, it’s shined like a marble top.

Like, these are just precision cut into this huge outcrop of diorite, which they actually believe was a magma burst. So a huge blob of magma came bursting out of the, out of the ground and formed into this huge stone mound that’s adjacent to Sacsayhuamán. And you’ve got cuts like this where it’s just, just insanely perfect. And this is not possible with a Bronze Age toolkit. This, to me, is actually more interesting in, in some ways than Sacsayhuamán itself, because it’s just a complete contradiction of the Bronze Age tools. You shouldn’t be able to do that on diorite.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, it’s wild. I mean, how long did that take?

JAY ANDERSON: And it’s smoothed down to a point where it’s, like, shiny.

JOE ROGAN: What did they do and what’s the purpose of it?

JAY ANDERSON: Why, like. And there’s all these weird co. Something like that. Yeah, there’s all these weird little cuts into the stone like that. And across Peru you just find, like, you know, these voids where it’s just like a 90 degree cut into stone with perfect finish and no sign of chiseling.

JOE ROGAN: And the weird thing is the back is smooth too.

JAY ANDERSON: And the back is also smooth.

JOE ROGAN: Get it out of there, dude.

JAY ANDERSON: This is the thing, man. I just find that so, like, fascinating. This is what really clearly seems like.

JOE ROGAN: There’s a lost technology.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: That these ancient people had figured something out. They probably existed for thousands of years. They’re probably really advanced, just in a different pipeline. Yeah, they went in a different highway.

The Stone Liquefaction Theory

JAY ANDERSON: I will say this, and I’m sure you’ll be happy that I’m bringing him up. There is one guy out there who’s trying his best to prove how they were liquefying stone and then bringing it back. And I only know his X handle, which is fomahon. Like F-O-M-A-H-U-N. I can’t remember his actual name, but I’ve been talking to him. I’m thinking of actually going out to visit him and film him doing this.

But he’s been demonstrating making teddy bear casts of rose granite and things like this. And for a long time he wasn’t revealing how he was doing it. So I kind of just was like, whatever, dude. Like, I don’t think that you’re actually doing this, but he’s now actually revealed his secret ingredient, which is slaked lime. Like this slaked lime, which was very easy to make for them, and water glass, which, again, is something that they could have made.

I don’t know the science behind this, to be fair. So I’m just going to briefly say, say that I think he’s got some provocative ideas here because he’s actually adding like this water glass and slaked lime to, like, you know, mixed up compounds of granite or limestone, like crushed up granite. Crushed up limestone, adding the slaked lime, adding the water glass, and then it’s solidifying into solid granite, like within six hours.

JOE ROGAN: What?

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. And he’s got like, literal, like teddy bear casts and like, you know, different, like cookie cutter casts of solid granite. And so there’s a potential that it’s really simple but totally been overlooked. You know, it’s just using the, the right compounds, the right components, and the right stone mixture. Again, how do they learn this? But it, you know, it’s not definitive. But he’s one of the only people I’ve seen that’s actually presented actual evidence that could explain how they were doing this. And it’s relatively simple ingredients that would.

JOE ROGAN: Account for some things.

JAY ANDERSON: Some. Yes.

JOE ROGAN: Enormous. Okay, so this guy.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, so he’s. I think so. If you go up and make sure he’s actually the right person. Yes, yes.

JOE ROGAN: There we go. Marcel, “Brilliant idea to create artificial granite with nothing as an additive to water glass, the latter being the glue between original granite grains. Why? Because I realize we need full transparency in order to clearly see the original granite grains, like quartz. We need a fake quartz as a binder. Well, nothing. Nothing did not work because the outside layer prevented the thing to get hard inside. Oh, well, nothing did not work. I guess. I don’t know how you’re saying that. Now what we are seeing is made with a secret additive, let’s call it almost nothing, that did not change the transparency of the water glass, but forced it to set from the inside. So remember, this is the wannabe binder only of artificial granite, not granite itself.”

JAY ANDERSON: It’s very interesting. And he’s revealed that it’s slaked lime, the secret ingredient. For a while he wasn’t saying what it is. Now he said it’s slaked lime. So I’m actually going to go out to the, he lives in Budapest. I’m going to go out to Budapest and actually film him doing this to, to see if he’s, you know, right about this.

He’s actually, I think, one of the originators of the whole natron theory, which I haven’t dived too deep into, but it’s one of the explanations behind melting the stone. So I started paying more attention to him. Once I was in Peru and he was messaging me saying, you know, “this is what I think is going on here.” As they were using these ingredients to, to melt the stone. Well, to solidify crushed up stone and create molds. My issue. Yeah, my one, one issue.

JOE ROGAN: I do clash of the stones. That seems like it’d be harder than.

JAY ANDERSON: Moving, maybe using harder rocks, like, you know, just like smash, smash. But yeah, exactly. You need to. I mean, how much stone smashing would you need to do to create Sacsayhuamán.

JOE ROGAN: All these 80 tons of smash plus.

The Challenge of Ancient Construction Methods

JAY ANDERSON: Plus every single block is different. You’d be talking about millions of molds. Like if we’re talking about molds here, then every single block is completely different. So you need an individual mold for each one.

So, yeah, compelling idea. Does it answer it? No, nothing ever seems to fully answer it. But it’s compelling that he’s trying to actually find a way to solidify the stone. And it seems to be working. Whether it explains all of it, I don’t know.

But there’s certainly a lot of people that will say that, you know, this is the definitive explanation behind it. I don’t think that. But the thing is, it’s compelling.

JOE ROGAN: Amazing sites have in common is that they are so spectacular, no one really has a logical explanation. Yeah, that’s. It’s one of the coolest things about the most ancient of sites is that it forces you to go, wait, wait, wait, wait. Even the best people don’t. It defies probability.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, it defies probability. It’s truly, truly fascinating, man.

JOE ROGAN: It was a national project. So simple. I get it now.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I know, man. That’s the thing is like, notice outdated kind of dismissal of everyone on the outside of the academic. Yeah, gatekeeping. He wants to say he’s not a gatekeeper. He clearly is.

JOE ROGAN: It’s not yours, buddy.

JAY ANDERSON: Did you know he came through the Edgar Cayce Foundation?

JOE ROGAN: Wonderful.

Zahi Hawass and the Shift in Narrative

JAY ANDERSON: He did. Zahi Hawass originated in the Edgar Cayce Foundation, so got funded and weirdly enough, he was actually quite pro these ideas until about the mid-1990s.

So there’s like a 1993 quote from him at a university in Cairo where he was saying something along the lines of, “There are tunnels underneath the Sphinx that lead down into greater structures. And when we truly understand this, we will understand the real builders of the pyramids.”

That was the last time he said anything close to that, post-1993. About 1993 and before. But after that, complete polar opposite 90 degree change. I wonder what happened to Zahi.

JOE ROGAN: Who knows? I don’t understand why, if you really want that place to get more money, more tourism, more people interested in it, say it’s an Atlantis church. Right. I mean, just be open to all these people that are like yourself and like Graham Hancock.

Why wouldn’t you not be open to these people and their ideas? Like, they’re clearly very well versed. Like Ben Van Kerkwyk.

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, yeah, he’s brilliant. He’s incredible, fantastic guy.

JOE ROGAN: He’s an encyclopedia of information about Egypt. And why would you not want that guy exploring publicly and also reaching millions of people, by the way? Yes, why wouldn’t you want that? It doesn’t make any sense.

JAY ANDERSON: I think there’s like a, maybe like a bit of a cultural arrogance, like, who do you think you are, Westerner, coming over here and teaching us about our history. I think there’s a level of that, like, you know, at least on a surface layer, before you get into the deeper implications of, you know, Freemason secret societies keeping things from us.

JOE ROGAN: My true fear is that it’s people just have this desire to be the one in charge of stuff.

JAY ANDERSON: Right. And the desire to be right.

JOE ROGAN: They want to be the correct. They never want to be proven wrong.

JAY ANDERSON: And who’s this guy, who’s this podcaster who’s coming on and telling me what my country’s heritage is? And I, you know, but that’s…

JOE ROGAN: But the problem with that is, like, even mainstream archaeologists are angry about it.

JAY ANDERSON: Right?

JOE ROGAN: Like.

JAY ANDERSON: Right. Well, everyone gangs together. You know, they all gang together. It’s groupthink.

JOE ROGAN: Well, it’s also, there’s a lot of b*tches in archaeology.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I’ve noticed that.

JOE ROGAN: B*tchy people.

JAY ANDERSON: I’ve noticed that.

JOE ROGAN: It’s such a bad look for the profession. It really is, because. Immature.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Like, snarky, sh*tty comments. Yeah, I know.

JOE ROGAN: Like aspersions of racism.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, it’s a really gross field in terms of, like, some of the humans are.

The UFO Hate Group and Online Harassment

JAY ANDERSON: I came through the toxicity of the UFO community, which is, like, so bad. And, you know, I thought it would be. Yeah, a lot of kooks, but also just a lot of bad actors and hackers and people that want to…

You know, one thing on the UFO subject, actually, which I do think is worth noting, because like I said to you, I think I’m one of the first people that you’ve had on that had to actually make their way through the social media and interactions.

And one of the things that a lot of us noticed, and have to give credit to a couple of people like Red Panda Koala and Tupacabra on Twitter, two very good researchers that have been highlighting this, is that when the whole kind of 2017 narrative and Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon, all these guys started coming out, obviously we were all extremely excited about it.

Over time, you know, there were some issues, like some contradictions. Lou Elizondo especially has contradicted himself quite a lot, and some of us started to get a little bit suspicious of these people. And just started asking questions.

It didn’t take long for us to be targeted by a pretty significant network online of people that were trying to hack and dox us. And people like, he hasn’t put his actual name out there, but people at Red Panda Koala was doxxed online, had his family house put out online, photos of his underage sister put out online by a group of individuals who are all very closely connected to Lou Elizondo.

And this is something that you would not notice outside of being in the minutiae of X, because you would see these troll accounts, these really nasty troll accounts that were all being followed by Lou. And when they were having their accounts shut down and reinstated, Lou was one of the first people following them.

Some people have actually come out about this group now and revealed screenshots of DMs where they’re in private conversations with people like Lou and Gary and, you know, some of these other guys who I got connected to early on, very early on.

I got some of the first interviews with these people and was very pro it until I started realizing they were very much trying to control the narrative and there were, you know, things you couldn’t speak about, can’t talk about, you know, reverse engineering or consciousness initiated contact. Anything to do with Greer is completely poisonous.

Lou Elizondo was actually, he called Greer and a couple of other people terrorists. He said, “I wouldn’t negotiate with terrorists,” when asked about Stephen Greer.

But what people have dubbed this as is the UFO hate group. This is very well known online, the UFO hate group. And it’s a group of people that are so savagely in favor of people like Lou and this kind of modernized narrative that if you even go half an inch…

Like I really gained my accolades in the UFO community. People, you know, really praising me for the interviews I was getting until I started asking a few questions about people like Lou. And suddenly I get an absolute maelstrom of hatred from people that were once really, you know, enjoying my content.

And I’m quite lucky I haven’t been targeted so heavily. Some people have had their lives ruined by these people who were orchestrated, connected to individuals like Lou. And Lou actually said that he came to burn ufology to the ground. Like he actually said that in an article. He was like, “I want to burn ufology, I want to destroy it.”

JOE ROGAN: When did he say that?

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, it was like in like a few years back now you could get it.

JOE ROGAN: Why did he say it? What was the context?

JAY ANDERSON: I think it was just about the way in which the UFO Community has, you know, been misrepresenting the phenomena and, like, the confusing spaghetti junction of narratives. And he just kind of, “I want to put a hard reset.”

JOE ROGAN: Kind of actually make sense to say.

JAY ANDERSON: Does he know things?

JOE ROGAN: You don’t think he knows things?

JAY ANDERSON: What does he know?

JOE ROGAN: I don’t know exactly.

Questioning the Elizondo Narrative

JAY ANDERSON: Right. They all know something, but none of them can tell us. And they all knew it from someone else, and someone else told them, and they knew it, and they know this. I’m like, dude, I was so in love with all of this. You have to understand that. I was truly, I was a believer. I was like, this is amazing.

I had my orb experiences, so I had a bias already. I was like, I’m ready to believe in whatever you’re saying. It took me a while to start actually realizing that this is not going in a direction I think it should be going, and that there’s a heavily curated narrative.

And if you try and question the narrative, you will be punished by groupthink. It felt like, honestly, I started to feel like I was in a COVID cult for ufology, where you just can’t talk about Lou Elizondo in a bad light.

Regardless of the fact that this man has gone on stage and presented literal fake UFO photos to the public, which have been debunked in less than 24 hours. And he had to admit that they were fake because of the debunks, but people are just happy to forget these things happened.

Like, he went up in a congressional setting and held up a UFO photo that was proven to just be fields, like agricultural fields. Yes. This is a fake. That’s not a shadow. That’s a darker field next to the lighter field. These are two circles. And this was proven. He had to admit it.

This is in a congressional setting. This man apparently ran the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. I call bullsh*t. I don’t believe he did because he seems like more of a government stooge, and he feels like someone that would be sent out to do what he admits he was doing. Counterintelligence.

He’s a counterintelligence counterterrorism counterespionage guy. Not a UFO guy. I’m a counterterrorism counter espionage guy.

JOE ROGAN: He’s also one of the guys calling for amnesty, right?

JAY ANDERSON: Oh, how surprising. Yeah, exactly. Calling me shocked. Yeah. No, he is like, you know, color me shocked.

JOE ROGAN: Does he say that in the… A lot of them do. I want to make sure that he actually said that.

JAY ANDERSON: I don’t know.

JOE ROGAN: Age of disclosure.

JAY ANDERSON: I’ll be perfectly honest with you, Joe. I haven’t even f*ing watched it because I’m just not interested in that element of the UFO subject anymore. I’ve been burned by these guys.

I’ve had Gary Nolan emailing me, like, “Why aren’t you on the team anymore? Why don’t you, like, be a team player?” It’s like, because you’re literally telling me that I can’t tell my own f*ing truth. You’re censoring me and saying that I’m not being a team player just because I have…

JOE ROGAN: Censoring you about what in particular? What were they attempting to get you to stop talking about? Talking about specific…

The AATIP Controversy and Lou Elizondo’s Background

JAY ANDERSON: Well, primarily, there seems to have been a bit of an issue with the way that I’ve been talking about Lou and his association with AATIP, because I think that AATIP was actually a cutout. It wasn’t a real program, and it was a cutout that was actually created for To The Stars Academy.

And ORSAP, which was more of a kind of precursor program, wasn’t being run by Lou Elizondo. That’s the Advanced Weapon Applications for Space Program. I forgot the actual acronym. Now, ORSAP, AATIP is meant to be Lou’s, and I just think that I have to be careful.

But a very prominent journalist in the UFO community literally told me that Lou told him that this was all created for To The Stars Academy as a way to generate an understandable structure. Here’s this guy. He’s running AATIP.

I have an issue with the idea that someone like Lou Elizondo can go to the New York Times and say that the Secretary of Defense wasn’t being briefed on UFOs, and I’m the one that was running a program when people like Julian Assange and Edward Snowden are being thrown to the wolves for just revealing standard national security issues.

This is meant to be even deeper, right? This is black budget. This guy can just roll out to the New York Times. Seemed a little bit planned, seemed a little bit curated and forced. So I started asking those questions.

And especially when things like this were happening, where there were discrepancies, where he’s bringing up images that are being debunked. I was like, who is this guy? Who is this guy, really?

And then his book comes out. He’s talking about being the torture czar in Guantanamo Bay. And the people there called him the Darth Vader of the United States. It’s in his book. He admitted they called him the torture czar of Guantanamo Bay because he ran Camp Platinum at Guantanamo Bay. Black site. CIA black site.

Whoa. Yeah. So he actually had in his book that he was known as the Darth Vader of the United States by certain people. And the torture czar of Guantanamo Bay. I don’t really trust people like this who waterboarded people for a living and are now trying to tell me what’s going on in the UFO subject.

The Amnesty Narrative

JOE ROGAN: Let’s ask this question. What purpose would there be to muddy the narrative? If you wanted to have a government agent come out and have what you’re claiming is like a fake disclosure, like a government narrated disclosure, what would be the purpose of that?

JAY ANDERSON: What are they all asking for, Joe?

JOE ROGAN: Money?

JAY ANDERSON: Amnesty.

JOE ROGAN: Amnesty.

JAY ANDERSON: Amnesty. And what was happening before that is you had someone like Stephen Greer just saying these people need to go to jail. And that was the only big voice in the UFO community prior to that.

JOE ROGAN: Maybe they’re offering a window to possible disclosure though. Like if we give them this f*ing amnesty. If we don’t, what happens? Nothing. It keeps going the same way it’s been going. There’s no actual disclosure.

We keep talking about it. It gets nuts. It gets to the point where it’s driving you crazy. Like, I don’t even want to hear about any f*ing UFOs until you show me one. But if it’s a real subject, and the only thing that’s keeping us from learning this real subject is that. And so they’re trying to push out this narrative of amnesty. I’ll bite. What are we talking about?

JAY ANDERSON: I think for me, again, coming up through it and just seeing how these people actually act when you challenge them, and the fact that there were absolutely organized groups of quite frankly, quite mentally unstable people that were very easily misled into believing they’re important, who are getting brought into these signal chats, these private group chats.

And I’m in touch with Lou Elizondo. I’m one of those guys, I’m being brought in and they tried to…

JOE ROGAN: Useful.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, useful idiot. And there’s a lot of them and there’s a few people out there that are extremely dark individuals. Like we’re talking connected to all sorts of weird Satanism groups. And Lou’s just there taking selfies, hanging out with these guys.

Like, he’s a dodgy dude. I don’t care. He’s like, I’m freaked out even saying this on the Joe Rogan. He’s going to remote view my brain or something. But at the same time, he is a dodgy guy. Like, he’s shady.

JOE ROGAN: But you do believe in the existence of these things.

JAY ANDERSON: Dude, I’ve had orbs hover over my house. Yeah, like a reverse engineering thing is.

JOE ROGAN: That there is a clear decision somewhere in our government to muddy the water and deploy, put out this narrative that these whistleblowers are trying to tell everybody. So to slowly trickle this stuff out there and then float out amnesty, which is a big part of the Age of Disclosure documentary, really the first time I’ve ever heard anybody where everyone uniformly talks about that one particular subject.

Curated Disclosure and Stephen Greer

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I think that that’s the goal, is to create a curated soft disclosure that does the very best to paint the government in the best possible light and allows them to actually not face too much punishment for what’s been going on in the legacy programs.

Again, if you only had someone like Stephen Greer out there, he was offering a completely different thing. We need to punish these people. They are criminals. They’ve ruined humanity for a hundred years of stagnating technological progress.

JOE ROGAN: Got a little testy with that. Should have taken a little softer tone.

JAY ANDERSON: Sorry.

JOE ROGAN: I’m saying with him, maybe if he did that, maybe they would have.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, right.

JOE ROGAN: So defensive. Like, the f*, they want to lock us up.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, but that’s it. That’s why as soon as you say…

JOE ROGAN: You’re going to lock someone up for what they did, they’re going to say, I didn’t do anything. Yeah, and they’re going to keep saying that.

JAY ANDERSON: But that’s why they got rid of him. Yeah, that’s why they got rid of him. That’s why Gary Nolan, who was originally with Greer, then changed over to the To The Stars Academy and they poached quite a few people from his team and brought him over to TTSA and he became a pariah.

There’s a lot of things that, quite frankly, I don’t agree with. But I just think that basically they tried to overtake the narrative and they needed government representatives to run this. And just again, how they do everything.

JOE ROGAN: Why would we be shocked that they do it about something this important? Especially if there is lying to Congress, misappropriation of funds and for sure some fraud.

JAY ANDERSON: For sure.

JOE ROGAN: You’re talking about a sh*t ton of money.

The Alien Reproduction Vehicle (ARV)

JAY ANDERSON: One thing that does interest me though is the ARV, the Alien Reproduction Vehicle, the Flux Liner. Have you heard of this? You know about Mark McCandlish and the Alien Reproduction Vehicle. Oh, that’s something you should. If you type in ARV Fluxliner, you’ll get this image right away.

This is one of the avenues that I would actually pay attention to and think, okay, I think something’s going on here. Mark McCandlish was an aerospace illustrator for the U.S. Air Force. That’s the. Yep. So the actual.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, I have seen this.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, of course you have. It’s very classic. And that one that’s blue with the writing all over it, that’s what was held up at the 2001 National Press Conference organized by Dr. Stephen Greer.

Again, this isn’t new. Like, to be fair to Dr. Greer, he brought over 50 witnesses on live television during the National Press Conference. And one of them was Mark McCandlish, military illustrator, who drew this sketch.

JOE ROGAN: A friend of mine has a version of this framed in his house.

JAY ANDERSON: So do I. I need to get one. We need to get one for the studio. You can literally get one on Etsy for like 100 bucks.

JOE ROGAN: Let’s f*ing go, Etsy.

JAY ANDERSON: Big one on Etsy. But, so this is important. Mark McCandlish, he actually ended up taking his own life.

JOE ROGAN: Go that back to that again. I want to read the heading. It says, “According to this documentary, we had this, the technology for faster than light travel and zero point energy for a very long time. Let’s pretend this is true. How do we know the UAPs we see aren’t ours? And more modern building.”

JAY ANDERSON: The person who made this documentary died of an aggressive form of cancer not long after making it. He was quite a young man as well, documentary filmmaker who made this.

But Mark McCandlish, military illustrator, he had a friend called Brad Sorensen. Now, Brad Sorensen was a government guy, aerospace engineer. Lockheed Martin had quite an extensive portfolio.

And Brad Sorensen goes to his buddy one day, Mark McCandlish, and he says, I was shown something and I want you to draw it. I’m going to describe it to you in great detail and I want you to create the illustration.

Brad Sorensen says that I think it was in the 70s or early late 60s or early 70s, that he was invited to a private air show at Lockheed Martin by an individual who was a good friend of his in the military who was higher up than him.

And apparently he didn’t have the right classifications to actually get access to this private air show. But his friend brought him because he had the tickets and essentially they bring him into a hangar in Lockheed Martin, where three large saucers of varying size were hovering a few feet off of the ground.

They were described as Instantaneous Nuclear Payload Delivery Saucers. Systems. That’s the way that they were actually classifying them, had a nickname for them. Instantaneous Nuclear Payload Delivery Systems. Like the idea that you could just instantaneously deliver a nuclear payload to anywhere in the world.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Which is, again, one of the reasons why they might keep this stuff secret. The ships were nicknamed Mama Bear, Baby Bear, and Papa Bear.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God.

Brad Sorensen’s Testimony

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. What’s really interesting about this is that Brad Sorensen has never gone public. But I was in the room when he was phoned, and I’ve heard him say things that have never been on the record before.

No one’s ever contacted Brad Sorensen. Mark McCandlish took his own life a number of years ago. His closest friends would say that that was not anything untoward. It’s hard to know. I didn’t know the man.

All I know is this is the man that produced an incredibly profound illustration and then eventually took his own life. But his friend, Brad Sorensen has never gone public. Ever. Never.

I’ve got quite a few contacts now because of my research and affiliations that I’ve managed to gain with people in the U.S. Navy and intel, and a good friend of mine who was able to actually find his number and get in touch with Brad Sorensen.

I was present when he was phoned, and my friend introduces himself to him, and he’d never spoken to him before, and they were just talking shop. First of all, he said that he wanted to reach out to him because he’d heard about him through various stories online.

But anyway, to cut the long story short, he asked him. My friend asked him about Mark McCandlish and this Alien Reproduction Vehicle. And Brad Sorensen went off on quite a diatribe, actually. Very angry about Mark and how he said that I gave this man the keys to the kingdom.

And he went out and talked about it to the whole fing world, and I will never do that because my employers will fry me. He said, they will fing fry me if I speak out about this.

But I am capable of building and designing an aircraft that can go 210 times the speed of light. Yeah, they reiterated that multiple times. What? Yeah, I…

JOE ROGAN: What year was this?

JAY ANDERSON: I’ve sat on this for a couple of years. It’s about two years ago. My friend phoned him. Yeah, I was…

JOE ROGAN: Instantaneous nuclear payload delivery.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can imagine that’s how the National Security system would actually look at this. Not as an exploratory vessel, but let’s be honest. What is this? It’s a payload delivery system that’s instantaneous. Let’s be honest. That’s what they would look at it as.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JAY ANDERSON: Another reason to keep it secret. Probably, but that was. I would love to get him on record. I don’t know if he ever will. Brad, if you’re listening to this, I would like to get you on record.

But he said that, he said that he can design a craft that goes 210 times the speed of light. And this is the guy that gave Mark McCandlish the illustrations to create that ARV. This is weird. I mean, it’s weird, dude.

JOE ROGAN: This is the real question. What would civilization be like had this stuff not been kept secret?

The ARV and Tesla’s Legacy

JAY ANDERSON: Right.

JOE ROGAN: If we had access to that kind of energy, whatever that thing is operating on, could you imagine if you had access to that energy and you’re watching all these idiots burn coal? What are you doing?

JAY ANDERSON: What are you doing?

JOE ROGAN: But you can’t say anything.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Because of an instantaneous nuclear delivery system.

JAY ANDERSON: I’d hate to be these people. I’d hate to be these people. Imagine sitting there knowing that we have access to these kind of technologies.

JOE ROGAN: I also like this desire to tell people. Yeah, that’s really important.

JAY ANDERSON: Humanity.

JOE ROGAN: They can’t all be complete sociopaths.

JAY ANDERSON: Maybe they screen them for that reason, you know what I mean? Like they have to be a certain personality type and give a f* about humanity.

JOE ROGAN: I think, honestly, I think at highest levels of these, especially these military corporations, I think you just have to become that anyway.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah. By force of nature.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, we’re going to kill 100,000 people today.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, exactly. I mean, how emotionally attached can you possibly be in that kind of task-oriented position?

JAY ANDERSON: So, you know, the ARV is a provocative one for me. And to be honest, man, I think a lot of this, I mean, it’s called the ARV, the Alien Reproduction Vehicle. And maybe we have had alien crashed vehicles, but I’m more tempted to believe that Nikola Tesla’s work was taken by the US Government.

John G. Trump, Trump’s uncle from MIT, was the one that actually oversaw all of that. You know that? Yeah, yeah. He actually looked at all that. You know, he found a correspondence between Nikola Tesla and British and Russian royalty, like the high top levels of Britain, Russian royalty, about them acquiring a super weapon of incredible power.

There’s a video, I actually posted it on X of John G. Trump, a vintage video of him talking about coming across these correspondent letters that he never found the true method of the secret weapon or what it was. But there was correspondence between the king and Russian czars about acquiring it from Nikola Tesla.

So I think that they took things from Tesla, his electromagnetism studies. I think people like T. Townsend Brown, you know, these original ideas of being able to use field induction to create positive lift. This is something that was being looked at by humans. You don’t need to invoke flying saucers crashing from Alpha Centauri for that. Maybe it happened, but I would be more on the line that we’ve done it ourselves. We’ve done it ourselves.

Yeah, some of it. The Cold War happened. Cold War paranoia. And we’ve never got rid of it. All the iron walls came up around that. And it’s a case of how do we kind of get rid of all this legacy program, you know, stove piping because of Cold War paranoia.

It’s too late now because we’re in 2025 and you’ve got to try and tell us that you’ve got zero point energy. Right? You know, we’ve been flying around in f*ing Wright Brothers planes for 100 years and shit. Are you kidding me? It’s not going to go down well. So amnesty, right? Yeah, amnesty. It might be the only way and if it is the only way, that’s fine. But like I said, I do have…

JOE ROGAN: It sucks that they’re not going to get punished for crimes, but so what? So at least we are not being punished by being withheld.

JAY ANDERSON: Exactly.

The Price of Disclosure

JOE ROGAN: Information being withheld that I think would change the course of humanity in probably a fantastic way.

JAY ANDERSON: But I do feel, I feel like the world would have to become a more heavily controlled place for these types of technologies to come out. Do you know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: I was trying to wrap this up on a high note. Coming up.

JAY ANDERSON: Well, this, I was all upset. You know, the control structures around something like free energy would have to be quite profound because of the things we were saying about some psycho with a ZPE device.

JOE ROGAN: Exactly. So look what just happened in Bondi Beach in Australia. Imagine if you have access to that, if everybody has access to that, especially off the Internet, you figure out how to design one. It’s not that hard.

JAY ANDERSON: The world will have to become a more restrictive place for these things to come out for public benefit.

JOE ROGAN: Now people are going to think you’re a fed for saying that. Listen, man, I really enjoyed this conversation. It was a lot of fun.

JAY ANDERSON: It’s been real fun.

JOE ROGAN: And your content is excellent.

JAY ANDERSON: Thank you so much.

JOE ROGAN: So please tell everybody how they can watch more of your stuff.

JAY ANDERSON: Yeah, I’ve got a terrible business acumen, so I just have two channels. Project Unity on YouTube and the Project Unity on X. And if you want to follow me and subscribe…

JOE ROGAN: I think that’s a good model, quality stuff, and it’s building a following just literally based on being good for real. Thank you, brother.

JAY ANDERSON: Appreciate it. Thank you so much, dude. All right, we’ll do it again.

JOE ROGAN: Yes. Goodbye, everybody.

JAY ANDERSON: Bye. Bye.

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