Candace Owens on Charlie Kirk, The Daily Wire, TPUSA, and Emmanuel Macron (Transcript)

And I usually do not believe in dreams, but it was so unusual for me to dream about somebody I never met. And maybe someone can say, like, it is because of your imagination. You were worried that you were not doing enough. And it could be that you are imagining. But—

On Trusting Your Intuition and Dreams

CANDACE OWENS: For me, so much of this world is built around wanting people not to have the confidence to go with their gut. And I realize that it’s all about don’t trust your intuition, don’t believe your dreams, don’t think you can follow your dreams. This is actually one of the reasons why I was such a big Kanye fan because I felt like in his music he sort of gave us the code. That’s why he was so hated. He refused to be put into a box.

And so I have had dreams that have become true. Like I demonstrated that on my show where literally the day that my former executive producer got pregnant, I had the clearest dream, and they were trying to get pregnant for a while. I had the clearest dream, it was a boy. I knew exactly when he was going to be born. I told her that the next day and she was like, “Well, no.” And then she found out about a week later that she was pregnant. And she wrote me and was like, “This really freaks me out.” And my sisters have had that every single time one of me and my sisters is pregnant. One of us has a very clear dream of the sex of the baby when the baby’s going to be born.

And so this whole idea that your dreams don’t mean anything — sometimes they don’t. Like sometimes I watch a scary movie and then I have a scary dream. So it can be impacted by that. But there is a difference. And when you know that a dream didn’t feel like a dream, right? You wake up and you go, “I wasn’t thinking about this topic,” or “I never thought of this person in this way.” Andrew Kolvet being one of them, never thought about Andrew Colbet in that way ever. So I didn’t go to bed going, “I wonder if Andrew Kol—” No, I fully trusted Andrew Kolvet at the beginning of this. I knew Andrew Kolvet. I had no reason not to trust Turning Point at that moment. And that dream shook me.

And yeah, so I hope that people listening to this just know that they build this entire system not to get you, because they want you not to trust your intuition. Your intuition — there’s so much more that we will never know, that things are metaphysical. And that’s why around people, hell is real. They know it’s real. And I think that there was something about the Charlie Kirk assassination that made people realize that demons are real.

ELIZABETH LANE: Oh yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: A lot of people who were atheists who aren’t feeling so atheistic today.

Parallels Between Charlie Kirk and JFK

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah. And that’s why I was so confused because Charlie was not my friend. It would make sense if he came to you talking, you know? So he’s just one of the cases. I’ve been on multiple other cases when people die and I feel like, okay, something’s off here. And I worked with detectives and I was so shocked. But then, and only then, I started putting parallels between JFK and his assassination. And I think that they are very similar in many ways.

CANDACE OWENS: Of course they are. Absolutely, they are. And I do believe that the same players are involved. Not something that I believed in the beginning, but following this investigation, obviously right away, I think what made people look up and wonder what is going on here was just Bibi Netanyahu’s little press tour. This is not normal. You can’t normalize these things and pretend that it’s okay. There have been other elements, of course, even messaging, the messaging right away, public — like, you go against us, there you go.

ELIZABETH LANE: This is what you get.

CANDACE OWENS: The lie.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: The unnecessary lie. Yeah. And the anger that they have toward people who are trying to figure out what happened. Turning Point being upset with Joe Kent — that was beyond weird — for trying to investigate foreign involvement. Erika making a joke about foreign involvement. Why is she not concerned about Egyptian planes? Even if it turned out that it was nothing and really they just came into town to change some parts and for whatever reason, the Egyptian Air Force just can’t find any place. She’s not concerned.

Erika Kirk’s Behavior Under Scrutiny

ELIZABETH LANE: Well, she’s mocking it. She’s mocking it. That’s why I was like, she came out — what show was it on? Fox News, of course. Like Fox News became a mouthpiece of TPUSA. At least that’s how I see it. You know, if you check out their social media, probably like 8 out of 10 would be TPUSA stuff. I mean, since when are we doing this, people? Even when Charlie was there, we were not doing that. Fox News was not an active mouthpiece of TPUSA. Now it is. So she comes out and she mocks specifically Egyptian planes.

CANDACE OWENS: Like it was like she was told to do it, right? If my husband, God forbid anything ever happened to him and the story didn’t make any sense. And then I find out that my husband, who had real enemies and who was turning his back on Israel the day before — we thought that message was September 8th. We then learned it was September 9th where he said, “I’m abandoning the Israeli cause.” And then I see that there’s an Egyptian Air Force. I’m going to be like, hey, I’m going to be getting in touch with Joe Kent myself and Tulsi Gabbard and saying, “We need to investigate this.” She doesn’t care. She does not care.

ELIZABETH LANE: That’s the message I get.

CANDACE OWENS: And to be so aloof about that. Is why people are rightly examining her, right? There is — you have every right to look at this woman and say, you aren’t acting right. You are offering a bonus and a raise to Dan Flood.

ELIZABETH LANE: Where is your rage? Where is your rage that he literally failed in protecting your husband? So why are you doing that?

CANDACE OWENS: And even if it was misplaced anger, right? Even if Erika was angry at everyone, we would expect that. And that’s why I compared it to Vanessa Bryant. Her husband died in a real tragic accident, right? She wanted everybody’s head. She wanted to, and she did sue the helicopter company. She sued TMZ for publishing the photos. She didn’t let anyone in — I mean, her speech, which I encourage people to go watch, when they did a memorial for Kobe Bryant, there were no fireworks. They did it at the Lakers. It was so personal. She told stories that nobody knew about him and her general demeanor, wearing all black. There is a difference here that people are noticing. And you’re not going to be able to gaslight us into thinking that all of that is normal.

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely. So what really shocked me is that she never once showed up in court. Never once, Candace. Like, you do not want to look at a person who supposedly killed your husband? Just look at him. I mean, just look at the guy. I’m not saying be angry at him. We get it. You forgave him. We heard all of that. But you don’t want to look at him? In court?

CANDACE OWENS: There’s just a general aloofness, lack of involvement.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: But, and of course the notorious Zoom calls. I mean, 6 days after your husband’s assassination, you’re giggling about emojis. How are you out of bed? I read about — how is it possible that he was like a brother to me and he wasn’t my husband, he wasn’t the father of my children, and yet I couldn’t get out of bed. I was destroyed. How are we supposed to believe this is just the strength of a godly woman? That’s what you guys are going to try to sell to us. Yeah.

Candace’s Roots and Identity

ELIZABETH LANE: And the godly woman who’s so strong, Candace, is somehow bothered by you and others.

CANDACE OWENS: Right.

ELIZABETH LANE: I thought I was— I thought she was very strong.

CANDACE OWENS: The Drewski skit, that’s what really upset her. Tyler Robinson murdering her husband, we can get by, we can forgive him. But Drewski mocking her? That was it. Wow. No, that’s too— that is— I do not forgive you, Drewski.

ELIZABETH LANE: So I will dive into Erika Curry, and I’ll ask you a few things. But first, I want to know, who is Candace Owens? Because Candace, you know this, they are like wolves. They are waiting for you to slip up so they can come out and, “Oh, people, we told you this is who she was. She’s a narcissist. She’s this and that.” I’ve heard this all. But you tell me and tell them now, who’s Candace Owens truly?

CANDACE OWENS: Honestly, I think the best way to think of me is as my granddad’s grandbaby. I am a lot like my grandfather was, and you can blame my granddad — he’s not here anymore, sadly. But I was definitely shaped by my grandparents early in life.

My grandfather was just forthright. It was all about God and family. We had to study the Bible growing up. We used to live in a roach-infested apartment, just didn’t have a lot of money. Me and my sister shared a bedroom, a tiny little bedroom. I had to take out the pots and the pans when I was young because they had to come spray for roaches. But of course when you’re young, you don’t really process your lack of wealth or anything like that. Kids can be happy anywhere. It’s one of the great things.

We couldn’t afford groceries, so they would come pay and bring groceries. We spent a lot of time with them. And my grandfather, I think when I was 7 turning 8, came to our apartment and just said, “I don’t want my grandbabies growing up like that.” And so he moved us into their house — a more middle-class house, still a small house. My parents were in the basement, me and my sister were in the attic, totally overfilled house. But it was better than roaches. It was great. It was fantastic. We felt like we made it. We loved our grandparents.

He just believed he was conservative naturally. And I don’t say conservative in a Republican way. I say conservative in the way that he just adored me and my sisters. I have two sisters. My brother had to be out mowing the lawn. He wanted us to be in dresses, and he would hold the door for us. If we did something wrong, he would lecture us in a prayer — he would start a prayer and then lecture us. My grandmother and my grandfather were just the most fantastic people, and they definitely shaped me.

But granddad was stubborn. If you came for his family, if he felt like something wasn’t right, you would hear from him. We even call it an Owens temper because it flares and then you’re over it. I remember one of our last fights before he eventually got dementia — this notorious last fight we had where he was yelling at me about, I don’t remember what it was. He starts stomping on the carpet, “This is my house,” blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, blah, blah, blah. And literally 10 minutes later he’s like, “Hey baby, do you want to just take me to get something to eat?” I’m like, “Yeah, sure, granddad.” Flare up, flare down.

So they can blame my grandfather for that. It was just the way my grandparents loved and adored me. I think that really shaped me. I was always different. My mother and my father would say that I just kind of — I see it in my children now. You can see which ones are just kind of marching to a beat of their own drum, and that’s probably how it’s going to be.

ELIZABETH LANE: It’s amazing. Well, I’m glad you turned out the way you did.

The Code of Humiliation and Blackmail

ELIZABETH LANE: The media today — people who are on the right side now are a sizable number, and that was not the case before. I am very thankful to your grandpa and grandparents.

CANDACE OWENS: I hope people are learning the code. Because there is a code here where you see it. It is all about trying to humiliate you, to blackmail you into submission, to threaten you with finances, and to get you to agree to serve Lucifer in the process. And so many people just say yes to it. It is scary. The people that I came up with in politics, who Charlie came up with, who have turned their back on him — it sickens me. It genuinely sickens me. I cannot explain to you. It makes me want to stop talking about it.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, no, trust me. I know. And so something interesting was said by Lara Loomer, Larry.

CANDACE OWENS: Larry Loomer.

ELIZABETH LANE: She tried to say, “Well, I do not understand why so many people are so scared of this.” And you know how it went. I’m not going to repeat that anymore. But she said it right. They are scared, Candace. They are scared. And this is why they are all over the place. They are watching your show like hawks. “Maybe she makes a mistake. We are going to sue her.” No one is as watched as you by the enemies. And because she said it right — it was not a, you know, maybe it was a Freudian slip — but they are terrified. Now, the question is, what kind of person is terrified? Are you scared?

CANDACE OWENS: No.

ELIZABETH LANE: Neither am I. You know why? Because I have got nothing to hide, and neither have you. You do not have anything to hide. So the question is, what kind of person should be that scared, and why Larry thinks that people are scared, right?

CANDACE OWENS: I think what they are fearful of — it is not me. They are fearful of their own exposure. That is what it is. And they are fearful of coming across someone who they know doesn’t bend the knee to money. They tried it. If I bent the knee to money, I’d be at The Daily Wire, right?

ELIZABETH LANE: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: And so that scares them because that’s one of their mechanisms. The second thing is, okay, well, can we blackmail this person? Can we dig through their life? Can we find something? Laura did land upon a high school squabble that I got into. I don’t care. I literally don’t care. Do you want to talk about it on my podcast? I have zero shame about that.

This is how it works. You go and you find something that happened when I was 17 years old and you think that that’s going to make me what? Bend the knee to having watched Charlie Kirk be assassinated on TV? Yeah. Let’s talk about it. Let’s come on my podcast and talk about it. This is how the game works and I’m not playing this. I am not bending the knee to Satan. Because I’m fearful that you’re going to dig up something about my family, about my grandparents.

I want people to learn this. You better faster be willing to come in front of the world and spill all your dirt than to buy yourself a ticket to hell, because that is where these people are going who did this to Charlie Kirk. I am not shutting up on this. I am not going to be distracted on this.

The lawsuits are meant to be about financial duress. She’s now upped the game and is publishing my address everywhere. That’s a psychological game. But I spent 2 years studying Sigmund Freud. I know how these tactics work. It’s built to destroy you mentally.

This is what Kanye, albeit he communicated it poorly, was trying to tell people about the Matrix — how everyone around him he suddenly realized was fake. He woke up one day and realized his life was The Truman Show and had a breakdown about it. And they will just call you crazy, try to dig up things that are embarrassing. That’s why Kanye notoriously got up and started saying, “I got liposuction.” He did this thing on TMZ. I was with him. “I got liposuction. I am insecure.” Actually, his first song is about that — “All Falls Down.” I do not know if you know Kanye music. I could take you on a Kanye tour like I did with Charlie. But there is a song, “All Falls Down,” and he just talks about how self-conscious he is.

ELIZABETH LANE: And he put it all out there for everyone to see before they were able to blackmail him.

CANDACE OWENS: That is why. I would rather be free. “Yes, I had a pornography addiction.” That’s what he said. “Yes, I did this. My cousin stole my laptop and blackmailed me. I had to pay him.” What he is doing is saying, “I choose freedom. You can’t embarrass me. I’d rather you embarrass me. I’d rather you say those things. This belongs to my life.” None of us are perfect, but I’m not going to bend the knee to this.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, that’s the way to do it.

Leaving The Daily Wire

ELIZABETH LANE: So another question I wanted to ask you before we move on to TPUSA is the Daily Wire situation.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

ELIZABETH LANE: So you left Daily Wire. Well, you didn’t leave Daily Wire. They fired you.

CANDACE OWENS: Got fired. Yes.

ELIZABETH LANE: And since then, even though they fired you, they just cannot chill. And it is like, honestly, I don’t know how you do it because it already disturbs me and I’m not even in this situation. I’m like a bystander. And I’m like, “Get over it, guys. Are you serious?” So what’s up with this?

The Daily Wire: A Cult Masquerading as a Business

CANDACE OWENS: People will one day know every detail of what the Daily Wire put me and my family through. It is a cult masquerading as a business. I come actually from the private equity world, so I worked at a real business prior to getting into politics. I worked for 4 years at a private equity firm in New York City. And I cannot explain to you, this is a cult.

You get fired, it’s over. You can send it in an email. People don’t build stages, gather around all of the other slaves and watch them hang you and prepare a video. As Jeremy Boreng did, to show everybody, “15 minutes ago we sent Candace an email and we fired her,” and he starts playing clips of Nick Fuentes in this glorious town hall. That’s not how you fire people, to get started.

Then to drag people through the court systems, and I am now vehemently against what is the arbitration, because now I understand what this is. It allows people who possess characteristics of sociopathic killers to just stalk you. They can just keep bringing you back into court over and over and over and over and over again over every little infraction that is meant to psychologically and financially wear you down. This is what The Daily Wire did to me.

And when I say every little infraction, I mean it can be in their head. It doesn’t have to be real. They, per your contract, can drag you into court. So that was the next 2 years of my life, was fighting them in arbitration court. For things that I didn’t do. I did not do these things.

I will say the one thing I did do that I was guilty of, and actually if we had made it to the hearing, I was going to admit, “Yeah, I did an episode defending Brett Cooper and I stand by that.” I don’t need to lie to you. I owe you $300K because you harassed her and I have a backbone. Yeah, I will gladly — ding me. I will pay you $300K for standing up for a 22-year-old girl. And when this filing’s over, I’m going to frame it and tell my kids that money’s on everything.

ELIZABETH LANE: So good. This is why people love you so much. You are just not only not afraid, but people can be stupidly not afraid and go for the wrong thing. No, you are like, “No, there is much more things to this life than your own ass, money.” And I love it. I love it.

Defending Brett Cooper and Leaving The Daily Wire

CANDACE OWENS: And I made a conscious decision because I was watching them begin to do to her — she does not have a, she is not involved in the Israel-Palestine debate. Like, it is just not what she does. She does cute pop culture stuff, but it’s a cult. You’re not allowed to leave. And so they will smear you and they want to destroy you on the way out.

And so what I lived through with them, I’m actually happy now that we’re at the end where people can see it publicly, because they’re just now getting a glimpse when they brought back my channels, how weird that was. I’m like, “You guys have not seen anything. Okay. You think that’s weird?” Them bringing back my social channels — Jeremy’s show, we actually counted, he’s done 19 episodes. 17 have been about me and Tucker. Okay. This is not a show.

ELIZABETH LANE: These people are obsessed.

CANDACE OWENS: This is more stalking. And the same lawyers that sued me for those 2 years — yeah, is now Brian Harpo’s lawyer. I know how this works. I get it. I understand what is happening.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: And if I have to be the person to demonstrate to people how this whole thing works, if my life has to go through it, I’m built for it. That’s fine. Let’s let the whole system crash and burn so that you can see it’s all illusory.

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely.

CANDACE OWENS: And that they can target and bankrupt and destroy people because they want to and they’re a part of the machine. To me, this is like the Sentinels versus the human beings.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah. And you’re absolutely right. They are obsessed to the point where I actually bet money with my friend that I was going to put out a post about Tucker and I was like, “Just give it like a few hours. Lara Loomer will show up and do something.” I won. I was like, “This is how predictable you are. This is how predictable you are.” I won money by betting on this. Like, are you crazy? Crazy.

Tucker Carlson: Standing Up to Fox News

CANDACE OWENS: They hate Tucker with the same viciousness. Yes. And that started when I was at The Daily Wire. Yes. So I was aware, it was very strange, because I’ve always liked Tucker. Tucker has always been good to me. And for years, before I worked for Daily Wire, I was doing Tucker Carlson’s show weekly, like every Tuesday I kind of had to be on there.

And Tucker — Fox News will do this thing where they put people on ice. You can get like temporarily banned for something. And there was something I said that they put me temporarily, like banned me from Fox News. Tucker Carlson, don’t care. He’s number one show. “I’ll have her every time.” He stood by me. And so little things like that, you get to see someone’s character.

I didn’t know him personally. I actually met Tucker Carlson — I have the video. Charlie introduced me to him and I sent it to Tucker actually the other week, because I was going through my videos with Charlie and I was like, “The only person I want to meet in politics is Tucker Carlson.” And so he filmed it and he’s like, “Hey Tucker, want you to meet Candace.”

So that’s who he is behind the scenes — where if he thinks that something is wrong, or that they’d done you wrong, he’s willing to stand up to the big guy, right? He’s standing up to Fox News and saying, “I’m going to still have Candace on my show every Tuesday. I don’t care if you don’t like what she said about COVID or trans, whatever it was, prevailing narrative of the day.” But they have similarly been obsessed with Tucker. And I don’t know why. Tucker has done nothing to them.

ELIZABETH LANE: Because both of you are good. I mean, look at this, Candace. You have everything that a person should strive forward, right? Like, and look for — like you are a wife, you’re a mother, you are young, you have business. You are happy.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

ELIZABETH LANE: And you have your faith. Now, the same goes with Tucker. Tucker is a guy who never cheated on his wife, who’s not going to. And I think that kills Laura Loomer. But it’s just how it is. And he’s got everything a normal American should dream for and strive for and all of that. And I think they are jealous and they are jealous that you guys are loved by people and they are not. Yeah, they’re not.

Embracing Imperfection and Family

CANDACE OWENS: And I think that is — it’s also Tucker and why I’ve always been a fan of his — is when he sort of told his whole story on Theo Von about his alcoholism and his wake-up moment of realizing, they hate that. They hate that. They want you to try to pretend that you are perfect and you’ve never made a mistake. No, you’ve made mistakes. Like, I’m like, “Guys, we can go back and we can find the files. You want the Candace files, I’ll give them to you.” That’s what I’m doing on my podcast every day. I’m not perfect. And by the way, I’m going to make more mistakes. There is going to be — I right now have 4 children in this world. They’re going to then be teenagers. They’re going to make mistakes, and I’m going to do my best to protect them and guide them.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yes. 4 children. What?

CANDACE OWENS: With a gay man? Yeah. With a gay homosexual gangster, mind you.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s a lot happening. He’s both a rap gangster, gun brandishing. He’s a gangster.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: But he also is gay.

ELIZABETH LANE: Oxford.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s a lot going on.

ELIZABETH LANE: He just has 4 kids though. But he’s gay.

CANDACE OWENS: But it’s always the immediate attack. They go for the family. Because they know that that’s where the strength is. Like that’s where the rock is. And when your family is good — my husband and I, we love being parents. We didn’t know that we would love it this much. You know, you never know. And children are just such a joy. They’re so funny. I mean, I could tell you every day the things that come out of their mouths as they’re grappling with things. And a lot of these people don’t know that joy because they’re searching for something that is so empty. Like trying to get into Mar-a-Lago. Like, wow, guys, it’s really kind of gaudy.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: The food’s not that good. I remember the first time I was like, “This is it.” And then I got there and I was like, “It’s like, you know, all right.”

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. And that’s why they are so miserable. And most of their work, instead of actually working on something meaningful, is trashing others. And people started saying it. That’s why Daily Wire is losing people because they don’t want to watch this every single day. They are sick of it.

So real quick, before we move on — when you first met Ben Shapiro, what was your reaction? Like, what was your analysis of the person?

First Meeting Ben Shapiro

CANDACE OWENS: I first met him with Charlie. It was another one of my favorite Charlie moments. I shared it. But it was, you know, any person when they first got into the industry around that time, you actually looked up to Ben because this was when he was going viral with the clips, and Charlie and I had just started. So we had all these messages that I could show you. We were like, “Oh, it’s so cool. Like Ben — I think Ben followed me on something.” I don’t remember what it was. And then like every person in politics, you get to know Ben and things change very quickly.

And so it was the Kanye tweet. Anything up before April 2018, we were like, “Great, it’d be great to work with Ben.” And then after the Kanye tweet, he got — he’s a very jealous and envious person. And rather than going, “How can we work together? How do we make things bigger?” you end up finding out that he’s working behind the scenes and telling people not to work with you. And, “This is going to be a mistake and she shouldn’t be speaking to Kanye.”

And you don’t know what Kanye means to people like me. You don’t — don’t pretend to understand the culture at all. You don’t understand, like I wouldn’t be in this circumstance if it wasn’t for Kanye’s music giving me the courage to know there are so many kids growing up in crappy communities that are hearing someone say, “You can break through. You can break through. You can be your own Superman and get out of this thing.”

And he’s just nagging and controlling. Very controlling. And he messaged Charlie and told him not to deal with me. I had showed the messages on my show and Charlie was like, “He thinks you’re his slave. LOL.” When I see Charlie again in heaven, I’m going to be like, “Bro, we had no idea how right you were when you sent that message.” Wow. Oh my God, like a slave who escaped his plantation is how I feel right now. And they’ve just got there on horseback trying to find me, you know what I mean? It’s been like years and I’m like, “Man, I think you gotta just — you just gotta let this slave go. I think she’s fully up north.”

But so yeah, after that, Ben did a flip. But then he sort of noticed that he couldn’t kind of stop the rise. And so Charlie and I did Ben’s show. We were in LA in Sherman Oaks, which is where Daily Wire used to be based. And I remember Charlie was just like, “Okay, when we get there, when we take a photo with him, I’m going to stand up real tall and puff out my chest so he looks super extra small.” And I was like, “Do it. Do it, do it.” And the photo is hilarious.

That was who Charlie was like. He was never like, “We are going to be super mean or try to ruin this guy’s life.” It was, “We are going to get this photo so we always remember that we triumphed him in this room. And then we won the show.” And he is just a jokester. He was totally a jokester like that.

Ben Shapiro, Zionism, and the Question of Loyalty

ELIZABETH LANE: Ben is the same way with everything. I mean, look at what he does with the nation. He tells them what needs to be done. It is like, who put you in charge exactly? Who are you, dude? He is telling American people, well, you are wrong to want good for America because Israel comes first. He never said exactly these words, but that’s where he’s going. Like, we support Israel. We should support Israel. Who are you to decide who American people should support? Like, who are you?

CANDACE OWENS: It’s really operative. And I think that — and you can fact-check this, but I was told when I was at The Daily Wire that his uncle is the one that sold all the uranium to Israel. So our — stole all of our uranium. Zalman Shapiro. He ended up not being charged for it because I think he pled antisemitism in court or something, but he did sell all of our uranium.

So this is who and what his family is, and this is what he was raised to believe, that he’s chosen. And so I think when you are raised with that philosophy of thinking that everything is yours, that you should be allowed to steal and rape and kill and take people’s property because you’re promised something, chosen by whom? Satan.

ELIZABETH LANE: Exactly. Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Obviously, if you can do this to children and you genuinely believe that you have a separate, as the Talmud instructs, that you have a separate spirit, they’re animals, you’re not. By the way, I wouldn’t treat an animal as they treat the Palestinians, just to be clear.

And actually, when you watch their behavior, the deep irony is they can’t think through, no, you have the spirit of animals. Look at you. Look at what you’re doing. Not even an animal would do the things that you are doing right now in Palestine. They have some sort of reverence that is ingrained in them as creatures that were created by God. And so they can’t work through, the people that support Israel can’t work through the fact that you possess the spirit of animals because look at what you are doing.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, facts are facts. And Ben Shapiro might say, like, well, I am not doing it. You know, I am sitting in a studio and whatever. But you are supporting the people who are doing it when you have the power to stop them. And that is almost worse.

CANDACE OWENS: He hosted Bibi Netanyahu on his show and will, without blinking, a criminal, without blinking, will say that Tucker Carlson’s a monster.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Who has Tucker Carlson ever hurt? He will say Nick Fuentes is the worst thing that ever happened. How many people has Nick Fuentes killed?

ELIZABETH LANE: Nobody.

CANDACE OWENS: Okay. So I think Bibi Netanyahu is worse than Nick Fuentes. Does that generally make sense to the population?

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely.

CANDACE OWENS: That the bigger threat would be the person that’s now bombing Lebanon and stealing. They constantly steal and then tell us that they’re more successful because they’re better at business. You’re thieves. Thieves and murderers trying to convince us that it’s righteous murder and righteous theft.

ELIZABETH LANE: Right. And doing it for the Jews.

CANDACE OWENS: So that’s what you will inherit if you — and to be clear, there are a ton of Jews who do not support this. And the numbers are now astounding of people that email me, rabbis that email me, Jewish Americans that watch this show. I think early on they were like, oh no, this is about not wanting the Holocaust to happen. They now see what’s happening and they want nothing to do with that.

ELIZABETH LANE: And Israel does not represent all Jews. I worked with a Jew, like my boss was a Jew. And Candace, I can explain — well, actually, I can’t explain what was going on in his head. He never once told me to shut up. Like when I started talking about Israel and Palestine and all this, I know that every single time we had a meeting, he was so uncomfortable because he’s an Israeli Jew, and he wants me to talk, but at the same time, he’s got all this family and distant family and all this. And I just felt sorry for him. I told him like, I just feel so sorry for you. I know you’re on the right side. And we avoided this conversation, but his support was not like, oh, Elizabeth, go talk about it. His support was, I’m going to shut up, right?

Christian Zionism and the Expansion of Greater Israel

CANDACE OWENS: And I think it’s really also shown a light on Christian Zionists. When we’re talking about Zionists, let’s be clear, the majority of them are Christian in America, and I’m sickened by them. I am sickened by the idea that I ever supported or platformed Ali Stuckey, right? As she is lecturing people perpetually and turning a blind eye to what is happening in Israel because she is convinced of some promise that, I don’t know, she’s going to be top goyim or something like that, top goy.

And you sit here and you lecture people about abortion being wrong, murdering children being wrong, but you go, this is — but if it happens here, it’s fine. Okay, now we’re in Lebanon.

ELIZABETH LANE: And now it’s okay to murder a 40-year-old. It’s fine. Like, because now it’s for a cause.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

ELIZABETH LANE: Whatever that cause might be.

CANDACE OWENS: Exactly.

ELIZABETH LANE: Right. It’s just ridiculous. But okay, real quick, this is a deep question, but you can take it wherever you want. I always thought that Netanyahu was its own puppet in a way. And the real control was always here in the United States with the Zionists, like Christian Zionists and some Jewish Zionists, who knows. And because take Adelson or take Larry Fink or take all these people who are supporting this cause from afar. They are all here in the United States. None of them choose to go and live in Israel.

So the power is here. And even if, you know, tomorrow Israel doesn’t exist anymore, they are still just fine. They’re going to survive. So do you think that is driven by the deep state in here? What’s going on with Israel? And Israel is just a fakely put together state as a tool, you know, to carry out whatever they need.

CANDACE OWENS: No, I think that their project is Heavenly Jerusalem. I think Greater Israel is the plan and they want to expand their borders from all the way through to Ukraine. Ukraine is a piece of this puzzle, an obvious piece of this puzzle.

There’s no war between Ukraine and Russia. There is a genocide of Christians taking place. They’re just going to mass murder the Ukrainian Christians and they’re going to move other people in. That’s the most obvious thing to me. There’s no sense to what they’re doing. It’s just like, how are we going to do a genocide and make it look like it’s not? Well, we’re going to sign them up for war, that they know they’re just going to kill a bunch of them and then we’re going to move in our people.

And that is what makes the most sense because what is today modern Ukraine used to be a very Jewish area. I mean, we could get into Russian history and — oh yeah, the Pale of Settlement.

ELIZABETH LANE: Oh yeah. And you’re not the only one who said that. There was actually a Russian politician who predicted this, who said, well, you know, Ukraine will be prepped for the Jews, you know, for this cabal that’s operating behind the scenes. So yes, I agree with you.

Sabbatianism, Frankism, and the Infiltration of Institutions

CANDACE OWENS: Absolutely. So that’s the way that I see it. So in terms of Israel, I think you kind of have to go back to what was happening upon the European continent before that. And you really have to go backwards to why this group of people who are now in Israel were being kicked out of so many nations.

And I’ve been begging people who are studious and Jewish to look into this massive movement where they had a false messiah named Jacob Frank. Then this gets into Sabbatianism and Frankism. That is the key to everything. This is not Judaism at all. It’s mystic Judaism, if you will. If you could say it’s Jewish mystical tradition. Get into what Sigmund Freud was. This is where you’re getting their initiation rites, the harming of children. This is not — it’s mysticism full stop.

And studying Sabbatianism and Frankism made me understand what was happening. You had Frankists who were at war, by the way, with Jews. Everyone — no one wants to speak about this. This is actually what was happening in Poland. They were at war with the Jews because they said, this is an old philosophy, the Torah, we don’t want to follow the old law. And in comes this radical Jacob Frank.

And once you begin looking into Jacob Frank, you will fully understand the picture. I believe, and with a lot of evidence, that Theodor Herzl was himself a Frankist. I don’t believe his children committed suicide. He likely raped them is what my research shows me, because through Sigmund Freud — Sigmund Freud sent him help for one of his daughters or whatever on how to deal with her.

But what Sigmund Freud was doing, which has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, his contribution was gaslighting kids who were actually being raped by their parents. Okay. And this was a part of the Frankist ceremonial rites. Like, to initiate, you had to show yourself that you could violate the law. It’s a form of Gnosticism, right? You have to plunge yourself and show yourself that everything is a figment. There’s no such a thing as good and evil. So you have to plunge yourself into the depths, and then they believe that from unholiness, holiness will arise.

And if that sounds crazy to you and new to you, you should look into Jacob Frank. None of this is made up. This is all very real. There’s no doubt that he — I’m talking about Sigmund Freud — practiced Sabbateanism. So when I see what is happening, I believe that these Frankists have been masquerading as Jews. They’ve mixed in amongst Jews for a very long time. Infiltrations happen.

I want to be clear, they also infiltrated the Catholic Church. Jacob Frank — absolutely. Jacob Frank mass converted when they were at war with the Jews, the Torah Jews in Poland. They said, oh, protect us from the Jews. We’ll convert to Christianity. And the bishop at that time mass converted a bunch of the Frankist community into Catholics, right?

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Very important part of Catholic history. Catholics need to trace where those families went that mass converted into Catholicism. Jacob Frank became a baron. He was based in Offenbach, Germany. He was given his own castle. The rumor, and there’s a lot of evidence to support the rumor, is that he was being funded by the Rothschilds. Okay. And the Montefiore family, the Rothschilds — they moved into each other, the banking dynasty that were bankrolling him.

And one of the strategies, one of the tenets of Frankism, is to false convert. They practice false converting into other faiths. So it becomes increasingly difficult to track who these people are who are wearing — they’re pretending that they are Muslim, they’re pretending that they are Jewish, and they’re pretending that they have Christian —

ELIZABETH LANE: That was their best skill. Yeah, absolutely agree with you. And I have not studied Frankism, but I studied other secret societies, and what you are telling me right now is exactly —

CANDACE OWENS: Exactly right. Yes, they worship all.

ELIZABETH LANE: So for a person out there listening right now, if they’ve never done any research in this, you just have to either go and do it yourself or take our word because I worked for like 6 years on the Kennedy assassination and it took me in places I never thought. And so you’re absolutely right.

The Occult, Freemasonry, and the Truth Behind Power Structures

CANDACE OWENS: They established Hollywood. Yes. Right. So it’s a different name of who’s leading it because they believe in reincarnation. But like, this is what Aleister Crowley was. Aleister Crowley. This is the occult. It is full stop occult worship.

And I’m so glad that people are beginning to have this conversation today because if you don’t understand the theology, it seems crazy to you. It didn’t seem crazy to me at all, right, when the young women who testified in the Knesset were talking about the ritualistic abuse that happened to them when they were 3 years old in Israel. It’s just now become a big issue in Israel that all they’re saying, that these rabbis are taking them into, I think, the woods, the forest, and performing these rapes and initiations at the age of 3. And you can go watch their testimonies that this is real. Like I said, it’s happening now, and for the first time it seems like the NSA is taking it seriously because too many people are saying that it’s happening.

That might sound crazy to you if you haven’t studied Frankism or studied the occult, but that’s all very real. And if people don’t tether themselves to that reality and they allow people to keep saying that what is actually a religion is a conspiracy, we are never going to be able to wake up to what happened. It is why I discussed the elements of Charlie’s assassination as being occult ritualistic. That’s obvious to me. There are way too many themes of human sex trafficking in the story. It doesn’t make sense that everybody is involved in charity of human sex trafficking charity. Like, all of your friends do this? All of your friends are involved in human sex trafficking charity? Something doesn’t smell right.

So I very much believe that Israel as the modern state was created by the Rothschilds as a safe haven for a lot of these demonic occult Bolsheviks that came in. I could, you know, don’t even get me started on the Bolsheviks and who they were, totally, and what they were. They were not Russian. They hated Russians. They hated Christians. And they mass murdered tens of millions of Christians.

ELIZABETH LANE: They killed their king. Let’s start over. Yeah, they killed the tsar. They extorted Russian— they took Russian gold, gave it to Europe.

CANDACE OWENS: Yes, they steal. They constantly steal. And then they re-emerge somewhere else and they wear a different mask.

ELIZABETH LANE: You know what’s crazy? People have no problem believing what happened with Epstein, right? Like, it’s okay, so yeah, that’s true, because government also admitted and said that, oh well, yeah, a bunch of people were raped and all of this. And you know, okay, so this part of history is not true, but that is, and you have no problem imagining that that could be true, but you have a problem imagining that the same thing is going on with other kind of clans and groups? Like, where is the logic here? It just, it escapes me.

CANDACE OWENS: Well, it goes back, it really goes back to the time of Egypt. And so when you even look at the construction, the symbolism is everything to them. It is everything to them.

ELIZABETH LANE: Everything. Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: And so when you look at the construction of the little Egyptian type temple that he had on his island. That’s a cult. And of course, I know it’s actually from a movie, but when Kevin Spacey says the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing people that he didn’t exist, that’s American Western society today.

Ancient civilizations always understood this stuff was real. And for thousands and thousands of years, people understood that this was real, that spiritual battles were real. What they did post-World War II was turn us into this sort of modern, fickle surface society that thinks that, oh, that’s just for the movies. Oh, witches are for dress-up. Oh, spells, everything’s hocus pocus. No, it’s not hocus pocus. This stuff is very real. These people practice occult worship, they practice ceremonies, and you are not going to be safe or prepared to begin to comprehend what we are dealing with and what we are fighting unless you begin to pierce that layer and to look at how long these ancient practices have been happening all the way through to our society today.

Mocking God and the Revelation of the Method

ELIZABETH LANE: And always mocking God, like always mocking God. If they are so such a fairy tale and nothing’s to it, why did the French government or whoever organized the Olympics feel the need to mock Jesus? If none of this is real, do something else. I don’t know, get a ballerina to perform or something. Why do you feel like you need to mock Jesus exactly the way you did?

CANDACE OWENS: It has to happen that way because it’s all about the revelation of the method. These people are psychopaths, right? They are truly psychopaths. And I’ve now got tons of people who have sent me older Freemason Bibles. I wish I could just take another 2 years to study Freemasonry. Now that I know that all of these people were Freemasons, like Sigmund Freud, B’nai B’rith, but they have to kind of wink at you and let you know they’re doing it. It’s part of the trick, and then gaslighting you about the fact that it happened and going, “What are you talking about? Oh my gosh, you believe that 33 could mean something?” Yeah, I actually know 33-degree Freemasonry is something.

And then what did we have happen right after they mocked it? France had the case that’s going on right now where there was an assassin, international assassin squad linked to a Freemason lodge. Yes, people, it happens. It’s going on and linked to their government. This is all real and linked to their military. And I go, oh, when Candace said it on her show, it was completely crazy. Fast forward a month and now it’s making its way through the courts.

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s never stopped. It relies on your stupidity. It relies on your trigger reaction when you hear “conspiracy.” That was a CIA term that they developed post-JFK.

ELIZABETH LANE: Of course. Conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories. Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: “You’re a conspiracy theorist. You’re a tinfoil hat head.” Yes. Right. Take out your tinfoil hats. Happy to wear one. I’m not going to be an idiot. I know the game that these people are playing.

ELIZABETH LANE: Exactly. And Epstein was a conspiracy not so long ago. Remember that?

CANDACE OWENS: That’s right.

The Vatican, Freemasonry, and the Pursuit of Hidden Records

ELIZABETH LANE: So yeah, absolutely. And if someone wants to know, like, how serious this is, they might not trust Candace Owens, but how about the Catholic Church and the Vatican itself, huh? So I interviewed very quickly, I interviewed very high-ranking Masons in DC, and they themselves told me a story that I was like, “Oh, that happened, really? And that doesn’t bring up question marks to you guys?” So apparently the Vatican called them and invited them to go over to the Vatican and talk to the leadership because they suspected that a Freemason branch out somewhere was orchestrating protests and trying to get some kind of coup going. So they actually called people in DC, Masons in DC, “Come over here and explain yourselves.”

CANDACE OWENS: Wow. And I can tell you, it is so funny because a priest gave me a gift when I was in Wyoming. He gave me a book and I have not had time to read it yet. Gosh, it makes me want to look it up, but it is called Murder in the 33rd Degree.

ELIZABETH LANE: Oh, yeah, I know that book. Oh, yes.

CANDACE OWENS: Okay, so I have not read it yet, but because I was speaking to him about all of my study into Freemasonry and speaking about how it’s really important for us to go back and to learn which families were baptized into the Catholic Church that were Frankists when that happened. And I don’t know how to begin that pursuit of getting records.

ELIZABETH LANE: Right.

CANDACE OWENS: But I just imagine the Vatican could. And it is how your world is run. Absolutely. It’s how it’s always been run. And we just recently read a book in my book club just to kind of get people into understanding where it started with Francis Bacon in, I guess you could say, more modern Freemasonry with Francis Bacon in the 12th century. And so I think now Americans, I think 10 years ago you couldn’t have had this discussion, but now they’re going, “Things are crazy.” And I do think that something about Charlie Kirk’s death catalyzed that understanding.

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely. And before that, COVID and all this stuff, right? So people are slowly waking up and no one calls anybody from the Vatican for no reason to show up and answer questions, right? Especially Masons, like highest-ranking Masons in Washington, D.C. Like, “Explain yourself, right? Like, what’s going on, right?”

CANDACE OWENS: Very true.

TPUSA’s War Against Candace Owens

ELIZABETH LANE: So yeah, and to bring this back to TPUSA now, who I think they are directly in war with you, for God knows why. I mean, their CEO died. You would think they want to investigate and be like, “How can we help Candace Owens here?” So instead, they are accusing you that somehow you hurt their organization. Obviously, they will never come out and say, “Well, our organization is going down because of one person,” so, and an organization that can be brought down because of one person maybe shouldn’t exist at all. How about that?

So, if that’s true, right, why do you think that they are so hateful towards you when all you’re doing is just trying to answer questions, not even maybe solve the damn case, trying to maybe fill the holes that are left in this investigation? That’s really all you’re doing.

CANDACE OWENS: You know, one person cannot destroy an organization. One lie can. And that is how I see Turning Point USA. And what I find often with people who are engaged in this sort of behavior is that there is always this level of arrogance that accompanies it.

And you have to imagine you’re them. The biggest assassination, bigger than JFK, because they didn’t have— everyone felt like they were there for the assassination because it’s happening through our screens. They didn’t have this technology. People are watching this on TikTok and watching this on X and watching this on YouTube, and everyone felt a spiritual pull. People who didn’t know him on the other side of the world. I mean, Vladimir Putin made remarks about Charlie’s assassination. Think about that.

And so for them, they went into this, and this explains the giddiness and the joy that they had at the memorial, that this energy is all going to be harnessed for us. “We are Charlie’s organization. We are Charlie,” I think was kind of the shirts they were selling. And this is going to mean, and it did immediately mean in the beginning, more money for us. And we’ve arrived.

Then the truth peered in and people said, “Something’s not right here.” And so it ended up being that they could not actually effectively harness that energy. They could not control it, which they should have known that because that energy was Charlie’s and Charlie would have never given his energy to a lie.

So people sat there, they had money, they had power, they had access. Erika can pick up the phone and call the FBI. You just start to get high on your own supply. You know, “Nothing can take us down.” You can imagine how they felt. “We’ve got it. He was at this office every day.” And then people watched the memorial and I’ll never forget Taylor Lorenz’s tweet where she said, “Why do I feel like Candace Owens is the only one who actually cared about him?” Think about that.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Think about how crazy that is that she said this. Okay. So she’s watching the spectacle. Everyone’s watching it. And she’s going, “That was weird. Why do I feel like Candace was the only one who actually cared about him?” And I’m sitting here going, “Hey guys, like, are we teaming up? Are we going to like try to figure out who?” And no, it wasn’t there. There was no desire.

And so they blame me for being authentic, because maybe they could have pulled it off if Candace had just gone along with the narrative.

ELIZABETH LANE: Right.

TPUSA’s Messaging and Charlie Kirk’s Legacy

ELIZABETH LANE: They did not anticipate that you would just get on it. So, I want to play a little game here. So if TPUSA did some things differently, because they blame you, you know, they really want to blame you and say like, oh, Candace destroyed whatever we built. Okay, okay, great. I believe personally that they themselves destroyed it in their lies and all this, right?

So okay, let’s play a little game. If TPUSA after Charlie’s death did not change the messaging that Charlie Kirk was trying to put out there, right? And what was it? Let’s clear this up first, right? So Charlie was against genocide. He went to, I believe it was Patrick Biedewitz’s show that is misbehaving really badly right now. Like, I can’t watch the guy anymore. But he sat there and he said, “I think they’re going to do like they’re going to cleanse Gaza, like, period.” Like that. Obviously it was bothering him. So he publicly said he’s abandoning the Israel cause.

And then you knew him better than most people, certainly better than me. He did not like, for example, Nicki Minaj, Ben Shapiro, all of this. So where are we with TPUSA right now? We are supporting Israel. We are bringing Nicki Minaj out on stage, like, what, a few months after Charlie’s death? Ben Shapiro opens TPUSA. So Charlie Kirk’s messaging, the person who built the organization, himself was completely changed, and they are blaming Candace Owens for ruining the organization. Oh no, maybe it was you, like, who actually changed the entire messaging this man was trying to get out there. And how is it Candace’s fault?

The Psychopathology of Turning Point USA’s Response

CANDACE OWENS: You know, I go back to that post you wrote that just went so viral, describing the attributes of Erika that caused people to emotionally recoil. There was a portion of it where you were saying the problem with the psychopath and what makes them different is they’ve never experienced this emotion, so they don’t know how to emulate it. The problem with Turning Point USA is just that right there. It’s very clear that there has to be a psychopathology that is ruling the roost because they haven’t thought through the natural response people will have to certain things that they’re doing.

So even if you, let’s say, theoretically plotted the assassination — everyone’s guilty, everyone at Turning Point is guilty, right? If this is not being ruled, like whoever’s making the decision is not an actual psychopath, you say, okay, we just need to keep things at least for a year like what Charlie wanted. Okay, so like no Ben Shapiro on stage, obviously that’s not a good idea because Charlie, it’s pretty on record he hates him, right? That’ll make people go, hmm.

You tell Erika like just to kind of go out there. Like when she immediately came out and went to Bari Weiss, “Do you believe he did it?” Yes. No, no, no, no, no, no. I’m directing PR. I’m like, no, you go, “I don’t know. I just don’t know. I don’t know. I’m waiting for stuff.” Like, that’s the obvious thing to say — like, you don’t know. Because that’s how a human would feel: “I don’t know.” Erika should also be angry at the Egyptian plane thing. It’s not fun. No, you should go, “I don’t know. That is really strange. I don’t know. And I’m going to — I have contacts and I’m going to ask Kash Patel.” Because that’s how humans would feel. And this is the normal trajectory of human emotion after watching your husband be assassinated.

Also, go away. No Zoom calls. Even if she’s like, “I’m ready” — like, how to manage a psychopath. No, psycho, get back into bed. Pretend you’re crying. Pretend you can’t get out of bed. Maybe lose 10 pounds or eat or gain 20 pounds, one or the other direction. Like you emotionally eat or emotionally don’t eat. And yeah, going to restaurants, celebrating, and laughing at the memorial — like, all of that can’t happen. So they needed a non-psychopath to manage what happened afterward.

ELIZABETH LANE: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: Don’t take down all of his stuff. You just keep saying his voice is going to live on forever. Everything they did ran so counter to how a normal human being would have reacted. And so all they had was money. That’s what a psychopath understands. Money equals power, right? So they were like, well, we have money, so we’ll just spend money on influencers telling people, as Ali Duckie did yesterday, that this is a spiritual sickness. “Your soul is in peril if you have any questions about Erika.” Okay, thanks, Ali. We’ll just keep pretending these lies were normal and we’ll go — that’s fine — spend money on Graham Allen every day, say anybody who questions Erika — we can see what’s happening here. You’re not going to MKUltra us into believing that her actions are normal because we’re human.

The Double Standard Around Erika Kirk

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah. And isn’t it weird how everyone is okay to criticize everyone else? I don’t know if you remember this when Trump was running — I mean, things that were said about Melania, or, you know, I mean, people were mean as hell. Nothing like that was said about Erika. And somehow we are again gaslighted into this, that you can’t touch her, you can’t touch her. No, no, no, I don’t want to touch her at all if she just stayed away. But here’s the thing, when you come out as a public figure and you do all this, you are going to be a subject of talk, whether you like it or not. I’m sorry.

CANDACE OWENS: You don’t get to skip it.

ELIZABETH LANE: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: You don’t get to skip it. Yeah. My life has felt like one long public autopsy. And that’s because Charlie and I went through that. They started going through his life, looking into scandals, all of this stuff. I remember it’s like, okay, this is what it means to be a public figure. And they’re basically going, “Well, she gets to just graduate and no one can look into her.” And she’s untouchable. And by the way, she’s going to have more power than ever because this organization took in a quarter billion dollars in like the last quarter or something.

ELIZABETH LANE: Exactly.

CANDACE OWENS: I think more actually. And they’re going, “You can’t say anything because we’re just going to keep throwing down the widow card.” No, she’s not the widow. She is the chairman and the CEO of a company where a public assassination took place — by choice, by the way.

ELIZABETH LANE: Not totally, but by choice. She’s a CEO by choice.

CANDACE OWENS: By choice.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And beyond that, they’re saying it’s out of — as she came out — as it was out of public duty, or private duty, I guess, to her husband, because apparently we’re supposed to believe that Charlie had the exact opposite ideas in private than what he expressed publicly. That’s BS. Okay. And just 2 weeks before he died, something overcame him and he said, “Hey, if anything ever happens to me, if I ever get shot in the neck, I want Erika to become the CEO and chairman.” And they have an opportunity to present that video and they just don’t want to present it.

They grifted off of every possible thing you can grift off of, including the tent he died under, which was available for photo ops at AmFest. But the actual footage of him saying that, which would have been so powerful, so emotionally motivating — it would have made people get behind her even if they didn’t think she was qualified for the job, right? It’d be like, “Oh gosh, that’s like the last video of Charlie saying this. Okay, if that’s your last wish, I’ll do it.” No, they can’t release that video.

The Tent, the Psychopaths, and the Human Reaction Test

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, that tent was so weird. If someone did that to a friend of mine, I’ll bury everyone. Like, I would be like, are you out of your mind? What are you doing?

CANDACE OWENS: Approved by Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH LANE: Person’s reaction.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, her idea went in the room, they thought it was a good idea, they all approved it. Again, the roost has to be being ruled by psychopaths. Anybody else would just be like, “Yeah, no, obviously we shouldn’t do that. That’s very strange. It’s weird. It’s haunting. It feels like a séance of some description. We’re not doing that.” And they’re just like — it’s beyond that. There’s no human. I’m like, is there a human in sight at Turning Point USA? Just a human. Just bring in a human and just — what is your job? “I am human.” You know, like, what is your official title? “Human.” Just shut down every idea Blake Neff has. Human reactions. In charge of HR — human reactions.

And I’m like, that’s why I make the joke on my podcast: hire me. Run it by me. I’ll be like, “No, obviously no, you shouldn’t do that.” And so they are thinking that they can spend their way into editing public opinion, and they are learning — I mean, just — listen, sorry, I just have to — the recent speech she gave.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yes.

CANDACE OWENS: There’s not a human, right? There’s just — there’s not a human that — there’s so many things that should not have happened. Like, just go, no humans. No, they’re Sentinels. I am now down for the conspiracy that we’re fighting Sentinels.

ELIZABETH LANE: I called it with Tucker too. I knew they would oust her at some point.

CANDACE OWENS: Of course.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s what he was fighting at the end. Yeah. “I want Candace back.” Yes. Tucker — they’re trying to get rid of Tucker. They go, “No, you can’t have Candace back.” His last day, he texted people at Turning Point USA saying, “I want Candace September 9th.” And that wasn’t just that chat that you saw. He also texted more people saying, “I want Candace back.”

ELIZABETH LANE: Right.

CANDACE OWENS: Because he woke up to what was around him. And I was always — as I was — I took Charlie’s “I don’t like that person” vibes. Yeah.

What If They Had Played It Smarter?

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, exactly. And that was part of my game that I told you I wanted to play. Imagine for a second that these people had been just slightly smarter, and when Charlie passed away and was killed in the manner that he was, imagine if they came out and said, “You know what, we are going to honor Charlie’s last wishes and we’re going to have Candace open his ceremony or something like that, or Tucker, or bring people that Charlie wanted back” — at least play the game better, you know? But do you think that part of it was they just didn’t care? They just thought they were too powerful, they didn’t have to play the game?

CANDACE OWENS: I think that — because I believe Charlie was assassinated as a part of a broader conspiracy — I think also they in their minds were trying to delude the public into thinking that his legacy was Israel. I mean, Trump within minutes posted of his death a photo of Charlie hugging an Israeli flag with an American flag. Bibi comes out and tries to assert, “I just spoke to him, I just invited him to Israel.” So we were instantly getting hit with Israeli propaganda, and almost like the best way to honor Charlie is to remember how much he loved Israel. And that registered as strange, just registered as not the right time. This is very strange.

And for people who knew how his opinions were shifting, as I did toward the end, it especially registered as especially strange. And then they fought that and said it wasn’t true. And then people went, okay. I think that was the whole purpose. That was the whole reason that they immediately had Ben Shapiro on his show. I mean, the disrespect of that is stunning, right? You’re supposed to hate the people he hated extra after he’s dead. Even if it’s not, like I said, even if it’s not righteous anger, you should still experience it because if you want to misplace and be angry, you’d be like, “Eh, and you did this to him in high school. I don’t even like you. You made him feel sad in 8th grade.” Like, that’s how I felt. Like any person who did anything to him — I remember a journalist that emailed and I was like, are you out of your mind? I remember how you tortured Charlie writing articles, and you want this — like, despicable.

ELIZABETH LANE: All of these friends didn’t get that and became best friends of Charlie Kirk. Didn’t get that. And they’re opening the ceremonies and it’s pathetic. Yeah, man. That’s what it is. It’s pathetic.

Megyn Kelly and the Obsession of Mark Levin

CANDACE OWENS: Wanting to open AmFest, like — and that’s why I say, you know, there’s an element of this — and Megyn Kelly, I think she said on her show, she was talking about the obsession that Mark Levin kind of has with her, and it’s deranged and it’s crazy. And then the gaslighting when she replies, they’re like, “Oh my God, what happened to Megyn?” It’s like, what do you mean what happened to Megyn? Do you see what she’s enduring right now?

ELIZABETH LANE: Yes.

Candace Owens on Ben Shapiro’s Character

CANDACE OWENS: But she said something like, “I think if he could physically harm me, like, he would.” And that’s what I keep trying to get people to understand. That’s real. That is how I feel about Ben. There is something not right with him.

That he was able to do it, that he was able to instantly say, “I’ll pick up the bloody mic.” Everybody knows how he felt about him. This is the worst-kept secret in politics. It’s not even a secret. Andrew Colvin admitted that on the day that he died, he was upset with Andrew for making him interview Ben the day before. He admitted it in his New York Times interview. He was like, “Now you have to host the show because you made me interview him.”

Everybody knew this, right? But think about what it takes spiritually to not feel some sort of shame, to just be able to go out there, to go to his memorial, to go sit in the chair of his studio and to give $1 million and to sort of try to assert yourself into his legacy. What is wrong with you?

There are people I don’t like in politics and I don’t have real beef with. Like, I don’t like Bari Weiss. I don’t like her. I think she’s just not talented, not a real person, and annoying. But I have no personal beef with her. But if God forbid something happened to Bari Weiss, do you think that I could stomach being that sleazy?

ELIZABETH LANE: No.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, I am going to go tomorrow. I am going to see if I can try to speak on her behalf and pretend that I am going to take on her legacy. That gives me the spiritual ick. I could not stomach myself. The fact that they can is why I say spiritually, we are dealing with something different.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yes, something is very wrong with them for sure. And it gives me Allen Dulles vibes. I mean, it was not enough to kill the president, he had to come back and lead the investigation, as if they couldn’t find another person to put in charge. Like, no, he had to do it. Almost like in your face, like that kind of stuff. Yeah, I agree with you, absolutely.

So you have to tell me, how did you manage to piss off two presidents?

Pissing Off Two Presidents

CANDACE OWENS: Honestly, one, I’m talented. I’m very talented. George and I were discussing, leading up to when we started getting— I mean, just even receiving a letter from a sitting president of a foreign country, it’s like, does this happen ever in the history of the world? Not often. I think this is just to shut me up.

Having a president call you and ask you not to talk about the gender of a foreign leader’s wife is just very— all of this is very strange. And I was like, of course they’re not going to actually sue. Like, that’s just so crazy. That would be world history. It’s never happened in the history of the world. Like a sitting president— I’m like, this is just crazy. Of course not.

And then when we got the lawsuit, I was like, my goodness, I’ve made world history. And then my husband actually researched and no, it’s been done one other time. I’m going to have to have Skylar look up the president. It was sued somebody in Hawaii or something. I can’t think of what country. It was a very obscure country, sued a sitting president, sued someone and he lost a lawsuit. I was like, darn, I almost made history. It’s only happened one other time in world history.

But it’s bonkers. And it doesn’t signal to the public that I’m lying. It signals to the public that I am very much telling the truth. This is not normal. This is not how you react. People say things about Trump. Could you imagine opening the gate to this, by the way, of foreign leaders being able to sue? Vladimir Putin’s just going to be dropping lawsuits every day. Like, “You called me this, you had no evidence. You called me a killer.”

ELIZABETH LANE: It’s winning, by the way, right? It would be winning.

The Brigitte Macron Lawsuit

CANDACE OWENS: He will win. The things that have been said— “You said we were colluding with Russia, I’m suing”— like, that is the opening of that gateway, even the pretense of that. Yeah, it’s like, whoa, what did we land upon that has you shook?

And again, you see this as a PR strategy because she’s not suing me for saying that she was born a dude. Anybody that can read the lawsuit, that is not what this is about. She is suing me for saying she stole, by technicality, her brother’s ID. She’s suing me for mentioning MKUltra as being the day of her fake birthday, which it was, MKUltra. And Jean-Michel Trogneux did happen to go missing.

Brigitte says, “Oh, I was here for the moon landings.” I’d like to hear more about that. What were you doing in 1969 in America for the moon landings? And there’s a lot of evidence that Jean-Michel Trogneux came to America for a spell and was doing stuff in the military. They have sealed his file, won’t let people access it to defend themselves. Why? It’s aged out. It’s supposed to be publicly accessible, and they won’t do it.

And hey, why don’t you just show up somewhere with your brother and just debunk all the rumors? Have your brother sit for an interview and say, “Oh yeah, I’m the brother. I’m a little camera shy, but this has gotten ridiculous.”

ELIZABETH LANE: So just ignore me. Just ignore me if I’m so wrong and I’m crazy and I’m a clown. You know how many clowns are out there speaking about Vladimir Putin, Trump, everybody? Just ignore me.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Why are you taking trips to the White House and asking the president to shut down a podcast and then telling him that, as I understand, he told him he would help out with the Ukrainian war negotiations? But I now don’t believe him, obviously. And I think Sergio Gore was kind of pulling the strings on that.

But it was basically, “Yeah, if you stop talking about this because I just need you to do that for negotiations,” like trying to end the Ukraine war. And so principally I was again, I’m happy to take a temporary vow of silence on this because I don’t want to be responsible for Christian men being slaughtered in the East. But obviously eventually I want to talk about this because this is an important case, where somebody is in power who harmed a child, and it is also getting into the occult and the things that they do and the grooming that takes place. And I’ve not edited my opinion without question. Brigitte was born a dude.

And so now it’s about, are we going to bankrupt you for knowing? One of the things I feel like I am willing to take, with all of these repeated attempts to blackmail me, is because what they are at risk of exposing— everyone’s paying attention to these cases, right? These are not quiet cases. You’re not going after a random person. They’re exposing themselves. They’re going to expose themselves in the process.

Like with the Charlie Kirk case, they wanted everyone to stop talking about it. Everyone’s reading every document. So the question really is to the government, how far are you willing to take it? Because at the end of the day, when people realize it’s all an illusion and that you’re just going to stick stuff on an innocent person, try to destroy them, you will end up with a revolution.

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely. I agree with you. And before we wrap up, I have to ask you, what was it like when you met Erika Kirk the first time?

Meeting Erika Kirk

CANDACE OWENS: I remember meeting Erika at Del Frisco’s.

ELIZABETH LANE: Did Charlie introduce you guys? Was it with Charlie?

CANDACE OWENS: He wanted me to come meet her. And, you know, I was excited to meet her because she was giving him attention. And what I mean by that is, out of respect for the marriage, I won’t get into too much detail about the time before he met her. It’s not offensive to the marriage. It’s like, obviously people try to date before, and he was trying to date this girl that he was totally obsessed with.

I mean, this girl that he was chasing, it’s kind of one of the worst-kept secrets. It was like me and Don Jr. were trying to help him navigate this. And because I was always with Charlie, basically every time this other girl would text him, I was texting her back. I basically had to become a lesbian for a year as he just goes, “What should I say?” At some point you’re going to have to text her yourself. Like, every screenshot, “What should I say?” blah blah blah.

ELIZABETH LANE: A woman’s opinion.

CANDACE OWENS: But yeah, “If I work hard enough, I can get this girl.” That was his mentality. And he was just obsessed with her. Reading back on those messages of this girl who then became one of my best friends and was in my wedding, because of how much I felt like I was chasing her— I liked her a lot, the girl he was chasing. And I knew that she was going to let him down because it was very obvious that she wasn’t into him.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: And he was kind of young in those ways. She was younger than him, but, you know, younger girls, older guys sort of a thing. And I basically kind of forced him. I was like, “You need to go sit down with her and you need to ask her. It’s been a long time. I’ve been messaging with this girl a lot, and I think you need to do it. Just sit down and say, is this something or it’s not?”

And I knew she was going to let him down and she did. And he was heartbroken about it. I mean, truly, truly heartbroken about it. And as someone who viewed him as a little brother, I just wanted to find— like, Charlie, it’s okay. You’re going to find a girlfriend, whatever.

And so when Erika came along, Tyler Bowyer sets up this, “I have this person for you to meet.” And he comes and he’s like, “Oh, she’s a bit older.” And initially he was like, “I’m just going to use her to try to get so-and-so jealous or whatever.” ‘Cause this was like the first date or whatever. And then she was a bit more persistent and giving him the godly spiel. And he, the messages— I’m just going through our messages— “Look, this is maybe what God wanted me to have.” And he was sort of hooked on that because Charlie was Christian.

And so when I went to meet her, my thought process was, “This is probably just going to be a girlfriend, but I’m glad because this will nurse his broken heart. And also he’ll realize there’s other people and great.”

Obviously my first instinct as a woman was that she was older than me and I just thought that’s kind of weird that she would be into Charlie. Charlie’s quite young in those ways. He’s an absolute genius. He’s got so much going for him, but he’s young in those ways. Like, I’m telling this kid to wear a suit that fits him. And he was inexperienced. And he’s been very open about the fact that he was a virgin when he got married, so I don’t feel like I’m oversharing here. And when I met her, I just—

ELIZABETH LANE: Sorry, hold on, was Charlie Kirk a virgin? What?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, that’s something he talks about. Yeah, he hadn’t even had his first kiss.

ELIZABETH LANE: So sweet.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, you know, so that’s why he was so unsure of himself in those ways. So confident if you talk to him about anything else. He could debate anybody, but when it came to the girls, he was young, you know?

ELIZABETH LANE: That’s why he never saw anything coming.

CANDACE OWENS: So when I met her— and to be clear, I became best friends with the girl he was chasing. She was fun. But Erika? Just nothing. Just what everyone kind of sees now. Just kind of okay. But I did not care. And I supported it. I was like, “Go for this, go for this.” Every message will show.

ELIZABETH LANE: So you were never friends with Erika?

CANDACE OWENS: No. Because there just was something like, I don’t know. I can’t explain it.

Faith, Family, and the Fight for Truth

ELIZABETH LANE: Did you ever think that she wanted it that way? Did you ever think that she wanted you out?

CANDACE OWENS: Hindsight is 20/20, right? Everything changed. But I just did not think that way because it’s just not how I think. There was nothing I — when Charlie and I first started traveling together, I had a boyfriend. Not my husband. I had a different boyfriend. And so it just, my brain didn’t think this way with him.

ELIZABETH LANE: Right.

CANDACE OWENS: There was no reason to.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: There was no reason to. Charlie had everything. You know, if she’s traveling with us, great. Like I want to get to know her. I want you to have a girlfriend. I wanted that so bad for him because I knew how much he wanted it. And that’s how we were with each other. We constantly root each other on. Like we were always defending each other. We always root each other on. And so if this is going to be your girlfriend, I’m going to love her more than you do, sort of a thing.

And same with George when he met George. First he said, “This is going to be bad for your brand.” I was like, “Charlie, this is what I mean.” He had these little, autistic-like qualities — he would hate if I said that — but like autistic-like qualities where I’m like, “Love is not a brand, Charlie.” These are the sort of conversations that would happen. “Charlie, love is not a brand.”

ELIZABETH LANE: Okay.

CANDACE OWENS: And then he and George just adored each other and George was traveling with us, so he really got to know him. And then I have this message where he just was like, “I just have a vision.” And he’s like, “I just — he’s the right guy and I see this so clearly for you.” And I always think back now and I get emotional about it. I genuinely think that meeting George saved my life, because it was right when it took me down a different path in life. I was very much at the turning point. And I always think, what if I had stayed and I was still doing tours with Charlie? But George took me down a different path, and I thank God for that.

And it all happened very quickly after Charlie had the vision about his death. Charlie had the vision about his death. Erika came into his life. They were dating sort of quietly. I meet George, fall head over heels, get married, get engaged 18 days later. And I just replay 2018 in my mind all the time.

And then in 2019 was when suddenly I start to realize like forces are sort of — some things just happening. New people are arriving in his life. He’s got a PR agent, Stacy Sheridan, and I’m going, “These people are weird.” But I never thought Erika, because I just thought this is just going to be a girlfriend, and it’s great that he has a girlfriend and he’s getting experience with it. And yeah, I just rooted for him.

ELIZABETH LANE: Wow, how interesting. I think it was all, like I said, meant to be because Charlie was on this path where he just, essentially sacrificed himself without him even knowing for American people to wake up.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s what he said.

ELIZABETH LANE: And you were there to fight for it.

CANDACE OWENS: He did know. That’s the scary part. He did know.

ELIZABETH LANE: Oh, he did know because he felt it. But I do think that he kind of — so he was like, he said “my death” and he kept telling me he would die.

CANDACE OWENS: And these are in messages, right? So I shared it. He said that he was going to die from the moment he signed on a dotted line with Turning Point. He started having visions of his death and that he was going to die and he wasn’t going to make it to see the end of the revolution, but that his death would be tied to the revolution and that people would wake up.

So the fact that Charlie knew that in 2018, it was the most haunting thing for me to reread, because at the time I was like, “Get some sleep, you’re tired.” And he said that he just constantly dreamed it, and then he died.

Where the Battle Goes From Here

ELIZABETH LANE: So Candace, where does this battle take you now? And you’re not alone in this. Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, these people — poor Megyn, she accidentally ended up in the group.

CANDACE OWENS: Respect to Megyn Kelly.

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely.

CANDACE OWENS: Because I would never — if you had told me to pick who would be the person to — I can’t even explain to you how much it means to me. Because when I was just telling the truth and saying his views on Israel were shifting, right? And they just spent all the money to have people come down on me. That was actually her crime — she just said, you know, his opinions on Israel were changing.

ELIZABETH LANE: Right.

CANDACE OWENS: And it was crazy.

ELIZABETH LANE: That was it.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s it. She told the truth about her conversation. She had long conversations with Charlie about it. He came on her show — one of the last shows he did was Megyn Kelly — venting about it. And they had conversations off record. Tucker Carlson told the truth. He has messages. And so it was such an act of bravery. And then she just stood her ground on it, you know, stood her ground on it.

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely. No, she’s awesome. I give her more credit because she comes from this very indoctrinated world of big media. And to be able to be strong enough to get out of it and somehow find your own way and then become even more powerful — it’s absolutely kudos to her. Talk about your faith.

Faith as the Foundation

CANDACE OWENS: My faith?

ELIZABETH LANE: Yes. And how it shows up in your work.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s funny because, as I told you, I’ve spent the last 2 years studying theology, full stop. Because I realize — I always go back to when I met my husband and I was learning about him. Obviously we were already learning about him during the engagement because we were 18 days. But one of the things I thought was so weird was that he chose to read theology. They say — we say “majored,” they say “you read.” And so he chose to read theology at Oxford. And I thought, wow, of all the subjects, like, why would you want to pick theology? Sounds so boring, right?

And the answer that he gave to me was that everything is guided by theology. The whole world is theology. And it didn’t hit me. I was just like, “Okay, whatever, sounds fun.” And he had made the decision to become a Catholic, even though he was raised in a strong Anglican household. English household — very big deal in England to become a Catholic, especially from an English household. I just did not sort of get what he meant by that. Everything is guided by theology. What do you mean by that?

And so my journey was sort of this awakening to, “Oh no, everything is guided by theology.” What is your theology actually? What is moving you? That is the most motivating thing in the world. That is what motivates people. Blind faith or an absence of faith. And when I started to — because I was just going to a non-denominational church at this time — I now realize that all of these people who are quote-unquote Christian influencers, they actually don’t believe in heaven and hell, right?

If you truly believed that there was a heaven and that there was a hell, how would it correct your behavior? What risks would you be willing to take? What would you sacrifice? And for me, I know that heaven and hell is real. And so I am not bending the knee to Satan. Not for money — you can’t take that with you when you go. Not for houses, not for cars, not for friends, not for invites to Republican dinners with rubber chicken, not for more opportunities to speak to powerful people in DC. I am not exchanging my ticket to heaven for any of that.

So that’s what shapes everything for me. And so the focus for me and for my husband is to make sure that we do not lose our tickets to heaven and that our children also do not lose their tickets to heaven. And I would love to see everybody there. I hope everybody comes to know the one true faith. I hope that people realize it doesn’t matter if they smear you or libel you or try to embarrass you or try to humiliate you, because this is a blip. Life is a blip — blink, it’ll be over — and then you are going to be welcomed or rejected into the eternal.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah, absolutely. And you know what I love about you? Even with all this stuff that’s going on, there’s not an ounce of hate I feel you have towards these people. Not even a tiny bit. After everything they’ve said, done to you, they tried to destroy your family, tried to destroy your show. Not an ounce of hate.

No Room for Hate

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I don’t wake up and — because it’s poisonous. It’s poison. I think about that when I think about The Daily Wire. You’ve spent 3 years trying to destroy your enemies. That is so corrupting — to wake up every day — I can’t imagine — like, to my team, this is the directive: “How do we destroy the Daily Wire?” That is — oh God — could you imagine just the cloud that just descends?

ELIZABETH LANE: And you end up destroying yourself when you do that. That’s what happened to Daily Wire.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s destroying your spirit. Yes. You can’t have success like that. And so I’m surrounded by too much happiness. Obviously just being around children every day — you think they don’t afford you the right to be miserable. It’s why I started doing a co-homeschool situation. Because I love to deal with toddler problems first thing in the day. Deal with toddler problems, realize what really actually matters, what they’re grappling with. And it has shaped me and has focused me. And so for me, just like my grandfather, it’s faith and it is family.

What If Erika Kirk Is Innocent?

ELIZABETH LANE: Absolutely amazing. My last question and we’re done here. I know it’s not going to end up this way — like if I can say somewhere around 100%, it’s not. But if Erika Kirk turns out to be super innocent in everything, and we are just unfairly blaming her of maybe wrong grief or whatever, what would you say to her if that ends up that she’s absolutely innocent in all of this?

CANDACE OWENS: If Erika is absolutely innocent in this, I think I would just have more questions. Like, you know, “Why’d you lie to me?” I would seek to understand. And I considered that plausibility, by the way, that it was everyone around her. Yeah. That was kind of — and she was in a state of shock and she was catatonic. But then when I met her, it wasn’t that. When I met up with her, it wasn’t that.

And the lies are too devastating. These aren’t little lies. These are cover-up lies. The Superman neck lie, the “Is this AI?” — like, the first thing she could just do is drop the video. She’s the chairman and the CEO — instruct them to drop the video. And if they tell you no, say, “I’m going to go live.” You have all the power.

So it would be hard to imagine a scenario where her hands are completely clean of everything. How dirty her hands are, I don’t know. But I do know that you only lie when you are covering something up. So when I say these people are involved in a cover-up, that is what I mean. They are lying and they are covering things up.

And does it make sense that she has a close relationship with Kash Patel? She should hate Kash Patel for a thousand different reasons. Right now her lawyers are arguing in court — the defense is saying, “We want to keep this May date.” And the defense is saying, “We can’t because the FBI hasn’t given us files.” Call Kash. Make it happen right now. Why are you going to events with Kash?

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah. What’s up with that? Yeah, no, I agree with you. And I was asked the same question after my post, and I gave a very easy answer to people. I have no problem apologizing to anybody if it comes to that, because we all make mistakes. But right now, Charlie Kirk’s case is important enough that I’m willing to risk my reputation and say what I’m saying. Because yes, Charlie’s case is important enough. So no problem with that.

CANDACE OWENS: Right. And I agree with you 100%. I will say I am so sorry we had it so wrong.

ELIZABETH LANE: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: But I can already say we didn’t have it so wrong because we’ve caught her in so many verifiable lies. So exactly. Does it mean that she pulled the trigger and killed her husband? I don’t know anybody that’s accused her of that, but I have accused her of being dishonest and I think I’ve proven my case, that she is dishonest. What’s motivating that dishonesty is yet to be discovered. Absolutely.

ELIZABETH LANE: Well, thank you so much. You’re so wonderful and it was a true honor. Thank you. It was an honor to meet you.

CANDACE OWENS: I’m so happy that we were able to do this.

ELIZABETH LANE: Thank you. Me too.

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