Can’t Be Censored: Tucker Carlson Interview (Transcript)

Read the full transcript of Tucker Carlson’s interview on Can’t Be Censored with hosts Travis Dhanraj and Karman Wong, June 18, 2026.

Tucker Carlson on Canada, Media, and American Foreign Policy

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Tucker Carlson, welcome to Can’t Be Censored.

TUCKER CARLSON: Thanks for having me.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Appreciate you doing this. I think that this is probably the longest lead up to an interview I’ve ever had because it’s been about—

KARMAN WONG: We have to provide a little bit of context for the audience. Tucker, the last time you were in Canada doing a speaking tour, you were calling around trying to talk to different reporters in Canada and you were getting nos. And I think you reached out to Travis. And he was maybe the only yes you got.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think that is correct. Yes.

KARMAN WONG: But it turns out he was going to be blocked from talking to you.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Did you know any of this that had happened?

TUCKER CARLSON: I certainly did. Yeah. I’m probably the only American who follows what happens in Canada. Because that may not be an exaggeration. Americans have no idea what’s going on in Canada. I have always been interested in Canada. I live right near Canada. I think it’s one of the most amazing countries in the world. And yeah, so I did follow it with great sadness.

Legacy Media and State Propaganda

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: What do you think about legacy media in this country?

TUCKER CARLSON: In Canada? I would say it’s a joke. It’s irrelevant, but it’s not a joke and it is relevant. It’s not media — they’re state organs. It’s official propaganda that supports the people in power. I can’t imagine anything more repugnant or offensive. We have that too in the United States, maybe not to the extent that you have it in Canada, but certainly a version of it.

KARMAN WONG: Is state-run media better or is the corporatization of media better?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, that’s a great question. Clearly they’re both bad. I would say government media is worse because the government has guns and the power to arrest you, whereas Facebook doesn’t. But they’re both bad. And certainly what’s happening in the United States is, I don’t think, as bad as what’s happening with the BBC or the CBC or with classic state media in the West, but it’s pretty scary. I mean, one family buying a huge chunk of American media in order to do public relations for a foreign country — and that’s Israel — is pretty disgusting.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: The one thing I will say on the CBC, and obviously I’m not here to defend the CBC, but Canada is a very large country. And I think the one thing that they can do — I have a buddy who is a reporter in Labrador City. There is no profit motive for a private company to be in Labrador City or some of these small communities. So I think they have the ability to bring the country together. They’re just not doing that right now.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I agree with that. And if I could just put in a good word for Labrador City, where I have been — one of the few Americans who’s been to Labrador City.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Are you kidding?

TUCKER CARLSON: Not easy to get there. Oh, I’ve been to Labrador City. Well, it’s really the only city in Labrador, which is one of the greatest of the Canadian provinces. It is very cut off. And so I can definitely see that. The problem is the temptation for politicians to put their thumb on the scale and to use media to bolster their power is overwhelming. It’s just inevitable.

Recognizing Media Bias From the Inside

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: So when did you start to see this happening? Because for me, when I was a local reporter, it is not always obvious when you’re in a local newsroom, but once you get up to a certain level then you start to see the thumb put on the scale, some of these really systemic issues. For you, when was that?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I’ve seen it all my life. I ignored it. I downplayed it to myself.

KARMAN WONG: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: I sincerely didn’t think it was as big a problem as it turned out to be. Partly probably because I was getting paid, and so I just couldn’t admit it. Partly because I was too close to it. You know, like an alcoholic spouse — everyone knows the spouse is an alcoholic except them because they live with the person. So there’s that phenomenon, which I’m sure you’ve experienced yourself.

But I really felt in my last job, which I had for 15 years, I felt like I was free to say whatever I wanted. Ultimately I was fired for it, but what I didn’t understand is how much self-censorship was taking place, how many things I wasn’t saying because I just sort of knew I wasn’t supposed to say them.

I always flattered myself internally and would say, I’m committed to telling the truth. I will do it no matter what. And to some extent I did do it. And again, I got fired for it. So clearly I was doing it, but I wasn’t doing it to the extent that I thought I was doing it. It was only when I was really free of it and just had to make my own living and be my own boss that I realized, wow, there are a lot of things that I just didn’t allow myself to think about. I didn’t even know this was happening until I got out of there.

But you could sort of feel it. I mean, I worked for people who were very strident neocons and I am stridently opposed to neocon foreign policy. And I did say that every single day that I worked there, but I probably was more gentle than I should have been because I wanted to be polite about it.

I think neoconservatism, their foreign policy, is just evil. It’s completely evil. In every sense, but in the most basic sense, it’s resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent people. So how could you just not say that out loud more often? I wish I had.

Trump, Canada, and the 51st State Rhetoric

KARMAN WONG: You mentioned you’re one of the few Americans who might be paying attention to what’s happening in Canada. I grew up in New Jersey and I’ve been in Canada for a long time. I don’t think you’re wrong, but where I think there’s been more recent attention onto Canada has been through the attention President Trump has paid Canada. Lately he’s moved away from this idea of a 51st state, that sort of rhetoric, and now he’s moved back again. I’m wondering if you have any thoughts about that, or were you around him during that sort of time period? We had talked to people close to him and they had kind of said that’s a bit of trolling on his part.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think it was. I was distressed by it. Not because — I mean, I love to make fun of Canada just because Canadians instantly respond. It’s just so fun to get a rise.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Okay, so can I pause you for a second then? When you were saying that you were coming — you did this Instagram video, remember, in Edmonton.

VIDEO CLIP BEGINS:

TUCKER CARLSON: “We have arrived in Canada. Finally, we’re standing on the commanding heights over Edmonton. Canadian Rockies on the one side, prairie on the other. We came as on D-Day by air, but we came not to subjugate or enslave, but to enlighten and to liberate.”

VIDEO CLIP ENDS:

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Where you’re like standing there and you’re like, I’m here to liberate Canada. I looked at that and I was like, he’s trolling. Some people took that seriously, right?

TUCKER CARLSON: I’ve been doing that for 35 years, going into Canada. Every time I check into a hotel in Canada, I always say, “When did you guys get electricity?” And they’re always totally humorous. They’re like, “We’ve had it for a long time, eh?” And I make sled dog jokes and all — it’s just fun to mock Canadians because they just don’t have the capacity to laugh about it.

But Canada is our closest ally in the world, or it’s the most important ally in the world. It’s the richest country in the world by resources. It’s our biggest trading partner. We have the longest border in the world with Canada. So what happens in Canada matters a lot more than what happens in Israel or Lebanon or Iraq or Iran or Syria.

I’m really bothered by the fact that the United States doesn’t pay attention and doesn’t try to forge a deep relationship and doesn’t try to help Canada. Civil liberties are going away in Canada. It’s becoming a police state — that’s my view. And we should be helping, not with force, but through persuasion and other soft means to liberate Canada. Speech codes in Canada are not acceptable, in my opinion. They’re our neighbor. You can’t put people in jail for having wrong opinions in Canada. The MAiD program, I think, is like the scariest thing I’ve ever seen.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Yeah, we’re going to—

TUCKER CARLSON: There are a lot of things going on in Canada that we should be helping with. And I believe that.

Trump’s Approach to Canada and the Middle East

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: So there are a couple of things we want to talk about. We do want to talk about free speech, but on this issue of the Canada-US relationship, when you were on good terms with President Trump, what was his take on this and why was that his approach? It continues to be his approach because Canada, as you know right now, is starting to forge relationships with China, with other countries, and starting to move away from the United States.

KARMAN WONG: Is it ultimately a negotiation tactic?

TUCKER CARLSON: I think it’s not serious. I don’t think he’s thought seriously about Canada. I think he didn’t like Justin Trudeau for personal reasons. I think he was trying to humiliate Trudeau. He succeeded in doing that. Trudeau came to Mar-a-Lago, and Trump saw that as a power move. It’s all non-serious.

But the move to China has been going on a long time. That is a very serious challenge to the United States. I think it’s terrible for your country. It’s terrible for us. And there are ways to fix that, and no one in the administration seems interested in even thinking through how you might fix that. Instead, it’s trolling Canada.

This is not serious, because they’re completely focused on the Middle East — because their donors are completely focused on the Middle East. And now Trump fell into this trap in Iran where Iran has basically won the war, which is to say it’s more powerful now than it was on February 27th. That’s just demonstrable. They control the Persian Gulf, and they didn’t on February 27th.

That is the focus of the attention of every decision maker in the White House, beginning with Trump. And so there’s just no bandwidth for things that really matter from my perspective, like Canada. Canada matters infinitely more to the United States than Iran. Iran’s nuclear program — who cares? We should be worried about what’s happening in Canada. And the rest of the hemisphere — Mexico, which is controlled by drug cartels. Nobody cares about that. Instead, we’re talking about Hamas and Hezbollah and, again, who cares? Not me. I care about Canada and Mexico first and second.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Well, the White House would obviously say that they’re making America safer by being involved. I know that you have talked at length about this. You say that the president is under influence. What is the leverage, in your opinion, that you believe a foreign government may have on the president of the United States?

On Trump, Israel, and Political Betrayal

TUCKER CARLSON: You know, that is the question. I mean, I’m trying to incite curiosity on that question, try to get people to ask that question. Like, what is the answer? Joe Kent, who ran the National Terrorism Center, suggested it was threats, physical threats, and that the Butler assassination attempt in August of 2024 was not a lone gunman and it was part of a conspiracy and that Trump personally shut down that investigation because he knows who was behind it.

I don’t know if that’s true or not, but you have very serious people with security clearances with access to classified information who are making that claim. So I think we need to get to the bottom of it. There’s no effort to get to the bottom of it whatsoever.

So I don’t really know. Of course, there’s massive donor pressure. Trump’s campaign was funded largely by people with loyalty to Israel. So there’s that, and there may be other factors that I don’t fully understand. But what we know for certain is that the United States went to war with Iran, a war that we are losing, that we’ve effectively lost already, because of pressure from the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu. So like, that’s enough. Knowing that is knowing that the US government betrayed the United States. Like, there’s no other way to read it.

KARMAN WONG: In terms of a read from the American people, if they feel the same way as you do, and maybe some of the others that have moved away from the Republican Party and moved away from President Trump because of the war and these issues, do you think that the midterms are going to be like the first chance for us to get a temperature read of how the American people are feeling towards Trump and some of these issues that you’re talking about?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, the poll numbers now tell a pretty clear story about it. I would not support the Republican Party. There’s no chance I would support the Republican Party. Not going to support the Democratic Party. I don’t know what I’m going to do. But at this point, how could I or any American voter support a political party that’s not loyal to the United States, that puts the interests of a foreign country above those of its own citizens? Like, that’s not possible to vote for people like that. And I’m not going to.

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I think I voted Republican my entire life. I worked at Fox News, CNN, MSNBC. I’ve been a consistent defender for 35 years of the Republican Party. I mean, very consistent defender. But there’s no defending this because it’s immoral and it’s exactly the opposite of what a political party in a democracy is charged with doing, which is representing its own voters, its own citizens, its own nation. And they’re not doing that. So no, I’m out. And if I’m out, then I think a lot of other people are out.

On MAGA, America First, and Political Loyalty

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Well, I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who I know that you’re close with, is also out. I was working at — not the CBC, another network — and I covered the 2016 campaign and we went all across the United States. And by the end, when I was in New York City, I thought to myself, okay, Donald Trump is going to win. I had an understanding at that point in time of what the MAGA movement was. What is your definition today of what MAGA now means?

TUCKER CARLSON: I never understood it. I mean, I think there was a strong latent desire in the hearts of a lot of Americans to improve the country, make America great again. So on a literal level, people wanted that. They still want it. I still want it. But it was imprecise by design.

The phrase “America First,” however, which has kind of been retired — you don’t hear that very often — is precise. Just put your own country first as you make decisions as a leader of your country. And that’s very obvious. It’s hard to imagine that any leader would use any other standard to make decisions. Of course, just like a father makes decisions on what’s best for my family, a leader has to make decisions on the same basis.

But they don’t use that anymore because of course they’re making decisions on the basis of other criteria. What’s best for this company? What’s best for Israel? What’s best for our donors? I just want to say again, that’s unacceptable. That’s not just like they’re off in the wrong direction. That is unacceptable. That’s treasonous. It’s immoral. It can’t continue. You can’t have a government that calls itself democratic — a democratic republic in our case — that is representing interests outside the country.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Like, that’s just insane. When folks say, okay, well, all of this stuff — if you take this and what Tucker Carlson has been saying on this issue — it amounts to anti-Semitism. You have said you’re not anti-Semitic, that you oppose what the state of Israel is doing right now, and you have a problem with where the U.S. government stands. I just wonder, though, if you feel any kind of responsibility in terms of how your audience takes this away, and if they interpret this as anti-Semitic and that perpetuates it.

On Antisemitism Accusations and Personal Conviction

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I couldn’t have been clearer. Almost every single time I address this, I say I’m a Christian. I think it is immoral. It’s against my religion to judge people on the basis of their blood. The story of the New Testament, of the gospel, is the story of each individual’s relationship with God — not a group but an individual. So that’s the essence of my worldview and of my religious faith. So yeah, I oppose antisemitism as I oppose all forms of racism.

But I don’t really think the onus is on me to apologize for a crime I didn’t commit. The onus is on the policymakers and advocates and members of the media in the United States who are more loyal to a foreign country than they are to the country that I live in and that my children were born in, that my ancestors helped build. And those are the betrayers.

The claim that it’s racist or anti-Semitic or whatever — the lie, the slander — is designed to change the conversation, the guilt trajectory from the guilty to the innocent. And I’m just over it. I’m not intimidated in the slightest. I’m not an anti-Semite. I don’t work for anybody. I don’t have any personal debt. I’m not beholden to anybody on this earth. And so I’m going to continue to say what I think is true and what I think the overwhelming majority of Americans know in their hearts is true, which is this is disgusting.

It’s just a classic maneuver where “I get caught doing something, rather than admit what I’m doing or apologize for it, I attack you.” I have children. I know how this works. Kids do this. But I’m not fooled by it, and I’m not afraid of it, and I’m certainly not going to be intimidated into shutting up because of it, ever.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Have there been threats?

TUCKER CARLSON: Have there been? Yeah, of course there have been. Are you kidding? Yeah.

KARMAN WONG: And aren’t you used to that? Like, you’re outspoken on a lot of stuff, right? For many, many, many years. This can’t be new to you.

On Threats, Charlie Kirk, and the Price of Speaking Out

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, you’re never going to hear me whine about threats, ever. To me, because I got in this voluntarily. I mean, I got fired after 15 years — the highest-rated show in American cable television — and I got fired for my opinion. And I’m not whining at all. I’m so grateful that I got fired. I’m just saying, it’s not like I didn’t know what the price is. I do know what the price is.

Charlie Kirk was murdered. Yeah. And he was not murdered for his opinions on transgenderism, obviously. He was, I believe — and most people who knew him well as I did and was friends with him as I was — believe he was most likely murdered for his evolving views on Israel. So I get it. A lot’s at stake. The world is at stake. But from my perspective, I have a duty to say what I think is true. I’m often wrong. And I always say that because it’s a fact. I have been wrong a lot and I may be wrong now, but I am sincere. I’m saying what I believe is true and I’m going to continue doing that no matter what.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Does it give you pause ever being so forthright with your opinions when it comes to your family?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I mean, this is a conversation that we’ve been having internally — in my family — for more than a decade. And obviously we’ve had, in a few cases, very large problems because of this. But we’ve made our peace with it, I think. And I have very close family, so I’m grateful for that above all things. Really, really grateful for it. Close to all my children, all my extended family, very close.

I just want to be clear, I’m not complaining. And unlike the people who are calling me an anti-Semite or racist or whatever, I don’t see myself as a victim. I don’t think victimhood is inherently virtuous. I find that whole way of communicating and of covering up crimes disgusting. I don’t respect it at all. I think it’s feline and really kind of beneath contempt.

Someone will attack you or threaten you — literally up to threatening your life — and as he’s doing that, claim that he’s the victim of bias. I just reject that. That’s not the culture that I come from. I think that’s dishonorable. That’s not the American way to do things at all. That’s not the way I was raised. I will never act like that. And I look down on anyone else who does act like that.

And there are an awful lot of people in my country — maybe Canada is the same — where the people who whine the most about being victims are the most powerful and richest people in our society. They’re constantly telling you that they’re the real victims. Oprah, who’s a billionaire, is constantly telling you that she’s the real victim of racism. And it’s just like, stop, honey. Can I call you honey? Stop.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: You’re not a fan of Oprah? Why?

TUCKER CARLSON: I’m not even against Oprah. She’s just the example that came to mind. No, I feel sorry for Oprah and I think she’s very talented. I’m not on a jihad against Oprah. But I’d like honorable, straightforward behavior, and I detest this thing that you see in our country — and again, maybe yours — where the richest, most privileged people in the country never stop talking about how they’re victims. “I’m a victim of racism, antisemitism, bias.” It’s like, be quiet. When billionaires are victims, the term has lost meaning.

On Running for President and the Future of Trump Voters

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Okay. Let me ask you this then. You clearly feel that the United States right now is going in the wrong direction. You have a massive following. Candace Owens says that she wants you to run for president. Marjorie Taylor Greene said that she would support you. Scott Galloway says that there’s a lane open for you. So if you are this passionate about where the country is going, why not run — even as an independent — if you say that the Republican Party is not your party anymore?

TUCKER CARLSON: I would say most — just about the Republican Party — yeah, I have zero interest in running for president, just to be totally clear. I’m not a politician. That’s not what I do. I’ve never sought power over other people ever, in my personal or public life, ever. I’m just not interested in it. I have a lot of sinful impulses. I eat too much. I have a bad temper, you know, whatever. They’re obvious.

KARMAN WONG: None of that precludes you from being president.

TUCKER CARLSON: No, it doesn’t. But a prerequisite for being president, at least historically, has been the desire to have power over other people.

KARMAN WONG: Well, I think it’s also a public service desire.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I hope so. I am very worried about the country. And I will say that most Republican voters, most Trump voters, are great people — my kind of people. I live among them. I live in a rural area. Most people voted for Trump where I live. They’re the people he was charged with saving, with helping — the people who’ve been left behind.

KARMAN WONG: And where do all those people go then? Where do they go?

JD Vance and the Vice Presidency

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t know. That’s a great question. So I want to say, when I dislike the Republican Party, yeah, I love average Republican voters. I’ve been one my whole life. They’re my neighbors and friends and relatives.

But the Republican Party in Washington is just completely out of control. I don’t share their values on any level, their personal values, the way they live, greedy, bizarre, bizarro sex lives, loyal to a foreign country above the United States. It’s like everything I dislike.

And so I just really find, beginning with the Speaker of the House, Speaker Mike Johnson, and extending to the president and the leaders in the Senate, I mean, I have nothing in common with these people at all. I do not share their values. I find their priorities appalling. And so I’m just not going to participate in that party at this point.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: What’s your take on JD Vance? Do you think he is still America First? Because I know you were—

TUCKER CARLSON: —friends. I love JD Vance. You do? I know. Yeah, I know JD so well. And I— Vice President Vance— and I’ve known him since long before he got into politics. And I know his family well. And my wife knows— I mean, I just, I think of him as a friend. I will always think of him as a friend. And I was an ardent advocate for him being vice president, for him getting elected to the Senate. I’ve always been a big JD Vance fan, and I am, I remain. I think he’s in an impossible situation.

The vice president does not make the policy. The vice president works with, but really for, the president. He can’t be fired because he was elected, but he works for the president. The president chose him, and this president has completely betrayed his own voters. And so that leaves the vice president, who was the hope of many of those voters, including me, in a horrible situation. And every day I feel sorry for JD Vance. Every day I say a prayer for him.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Do you talk to him?

TUCKER CARLSON: I always consider him a friend. I wouldn’t want to wreck his life more than it has been wrecked by even talking about that. But I will just say that I remain a fan, and I’m glad I’m not in that position.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: So what is your advice to him then, in terms of what he does here? And could you get behind him?

KARMAN WONG: He can only do so much right now.

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I don’t know what he could do. I know what I would do, but I wouldn’t ever get anything done. That’s the thing. People like me in general don’t get a lot done because they’re so committed to saying what they think is true all the time, and they have all these inflexible principles, and they’re just hard to deal with. That’s why I’ve gotten fired so much in my life.

KARMAN WONG: You’ve been fired a lot.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah. So what I would do, of course, is I would march into the Oval Office and say to Trump, “Knock it off. This is ridiculous. This is the opposite of what we ran on. What are you doing? And you either stop doing it or I’m going to give a press conference every single day from my house and explain to the world what you’re doing and why. And I’m going to attack you. I don’t want to, but I’m going to.”

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KARMAN WONG: Well, that’s what’s—

TUCKER CARLSON: —that’s pretty much what you’ve done for the country.

KARMAN WONG: That’s what you’ve sort of done.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, no, but I’m saying if I were vice president.

KARMAN WONG: Yeah. Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: And I wouldn’t get anything done. What I’m saying is I’m not sure that that’s the right thing to do. JD Vance, and this is obvious if you watch him, has a different personality where he’s always trying to make things better. He doesn’t throw up his hands in rage and say, “You’re too disgusting, I’m not dealing with you.” He says, “I disagree with this, that, and the other thing, but what can we improve?” And that’s a different way of operating in the world. It’s a way that I respect. I respect him for that. I always have. And I’m the guy who’s like, “You make me sick, I’m out.” And that’s why I guess I’m in journalism, right?

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: I guess I did the same thing as well.

TUCKER CARLSON: Exactly. You know the feeling.

Trump’s Cognitive Decline and the Butler Shooting

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: So we were with David Pakman. I’m sure you’re a subscriber to his channel. We were down in the United States chatting with him about President Trump a couple of weeks ago, maybe a month or two ago. He was talking about what he views as cognitive decline. I have heard that you have said that the president is still sharp. What’s your assessment of this conversation about whether or not there has been cognitive decline when it comes to the president?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I mean, I’m 57 and I feel cognitive decline. Trump turns 80 on Sunday.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Did he fall asleep at the Knicks game the other day?

TUCKER CARLSON: Probably. I never believe anything I see on the internet, but I wouldn’t— 80-year-old men fall asleep a lot, right? They’re tired. They don’t sleep well at night.

But I don’t think Trump has dementia. I mean, I haven’t spoken to him since February 27th, the night before we went to war. And I don’t know if I will, but as of that day, which is the day that he made up his mind to start this war, he was not demented. I had long conversations with him multiple times, probably 8 times that month. So I have a good sense of the way he was communicating, and it was not like a man with Alzheimer’s, period.

I think he was forced into this. I don’t think he wanted to do it. I’m positive of that. I could tell from what he said to me that he didn’t want to do it. He understood the risks. He did it anyway, and I want to know why. And again, no one else seems interested in— oh, that’s a conspiracy. Well, it’s actually not a conspiracy theory, it’s a fact. And I spoke to him as much as any person outside the administration that month. I’m confident in saying that. And he didn’t want to do this.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Is your relationship with him— do you see a window to repair that?

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, I’ve always liked Trump. He’s charming. I’ve known him for so long, most of my life really at this point. And I feel sorry for him. He is enslaved by greater powers. He’s not free to make whatever decision he wants to make. So I feel sorry for him in that way.

I find what he’s done very upsetting and so damaging to the United States, like gravely damaging to the United States. This is terrible for America. However, I don’t hate the guy. I’m not obsessively hating him. And I would be happy to have dinner with him. I doubt I ever will again. That’s not really my concern. I mean, I’ve had enough dinners with Trump at this point, as much as I’ve enjoyed him and I like him and everything, and I do.

And there are certain members of his family who I love, such as one in particular. I don’t want to embarrass anyone, but there are really nice, smart, interesting, very funny people in that world, and I like them to this day.

But I think the fact that I said out loud what he knows to be true, which is this is a massive mistake, he didn’t do it because he wanted to do it, he did it because he was forced to do it— the U.S. president doesn’t get to run the show or make independent decisions. He works for somebody else. And the question is, who are the people he works for? What’s the answer?

He hated that I said that because it’s true. No one cares when you lie. They can just blow it off. When people call me an anti-Semite, I’m like, I’m not an anti-Semite. I don’t care. But if I was an anti-Semite, I would be very upset. “Ooh, you found me out. I’m a secret Nazi. You figured it out.” And in the case of Trump, I told the truth and he understandably didn’t like it at all.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: So if what you’re saying is true, if there are levers being pulled, do you think that it will ever come to light what the actual evidence is when it comes to this? What the leverage that exists right now or previously existed is?

TUCKER CARLSON: We need to get to the bottom of this.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: How does that happen?

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, just by the next president forcing the FBI to divulge— the reams, the literally hundreds of thousands of pages of information they have, information they gathered about that shooting, to the public. And that information belongs to the public. In our country, the public owns the work product of the U.S. government. It’s called public property. So it’s not the personal property of Kash Patel or whoever these clowns are running the FBI or DOJ. That belongs to the American people.

And I just hope that we get mass disclosure going back to at least 1963. We still don’t have the full corpus of the Kennedy assassination documents. Why is that? Every reference to Israel was redacted. Why are there references to Israel in the Kennedy assassination documents? There are. Fact. What is that?

All of this stuff should be declassified. There’s no national security pretext to hide it. What they’re hiding are their own crimes. And so until that stuff is declassified, we can’t answer these questions. But it could easily be. And I hope at some point we will have a president who’s brave enough, who’s willing to die for this. He’s going to need to be willing to die to improve his country. That is the basic prerequisite of leadership. Lay down your life for the people you lead. At that point, maybe we can get some answers.

But I would start with that Butler shooting because I agree with Joe Kent that there are questions that are absolutely baffling. That whole story is bizarre.

Who Has the Courage to Lead?

KARMAN WONG: Who do you think might be up for that job?

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, it would take someone genuinely brave who cared about the country more than his own.

KARMAN WONG: Anyone come to mind?

TUCKER CARLSON: No, honestly. I know a lot of good people, but I don’t know. I mean, who would want that? Who would want to be a politician? It’s just so ugly. And then the second you announce, every bad thing you’ve ever done, everything that your kids have done, every relative you have who’s been to rehab or pinched a waitress’s butt is on the front of Daily Mail. The whole thing is just absolutely awful.

Look at Graham Plattner, this guy who’s running in the state of Maine where I live. He’s a Democrat, he’s liberal. I don’t have strong feelings about it. But rather than respond to what the guy’s positions are, they’ve just called him a Nazi for the last month because he had a tattoo that was not a swastika, but apparently was connected to the German military at some point. It’s not even clear he knew that. But they’ve attacked the guy in his personal life. It’s like they don’t like him because he’s not sufficiently supportive of Israel.

Relationships Strained by Speaking Out

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Yeah, I will say this— when I told some folks, some Jewish friends, that I was going to do an interview with you, they were very upset. Some understood. But have there been relationships, because you have been so outspoken about this, with members of the Jewish faith, or just folks in general, that have ended because of how outspoken you’ve been?

On Friendship, Israel, and Being Called an Anti-Semite

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, a bunch. A couple of actual friendships have ended. People have decided not to be friends with me anymore. Have attacked me. Absolutely. And I grieve that. I mean, to me, friendship is more important than anything in the political sphere. I take it seriously. I don’t know what to do about it.

I have had feelings about Israel for a long time, but they weren’t important enough to me to air them in public. And I knew that there are people I love who care about Israel above everything, including our friendship and our country, and Israel is more important to them than anything. And I don’t understand that orientation. I don’t respect it at all, but I like them very much. They’re friends of mine. So I just decided it’s not even worth it. I’m not going to say anything about it. I don’t care that much about Israel. I’m not like staying up late fretting about Israel.

But when the Israeli prime minister pushed the United States, my country, into a war that is gravely damaging the United States and getting Americans killed, I felt like I had to say something. That’s my job. That’s what I do for a living. I can’t be a coward about it.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: We’re going to get a lot of heat for talking to you about this. But what you’re saying here is not anything that you have not said before. I saw that you went on Israeli TV the other day to have this conversation as well.

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, I’m not ashamed of my views because my views aren’t evil. I’m not for hurting innocent people at all — Jews or Arabs or Chinese people or any— I’m not for hurting innocent people, period. So I have nothing to be ashamed of. And there’s been this constant effort to make me ashamed of my views, and it’s just not going to work because these are not shameful views. Anyone who’s making excuses for the murder of innocents should be ashamed, not me.

The Danny Danon Phone Call

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Israel’s ambassador to the United Nations said that there was a phone call that you had with him where you said that you wanted to be taken off the list because you were being attacked by Jews.

TUCKER CARLSON: So I waited for a minute and I told him, “Mr. Carlson, we don’t have a list. You are being attacked because you’re spreading lies, blood libels against our soldiers.”

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: We’ve heard his perspective on that and what he has said. What do you say to that? Did that conversation happen?

TUCKER CARLSON: Liar.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: It didn’t happen?

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, of course — I mean, the whole thing’s insane. It’s a lie. His name is Danny Danon. He’s a longtime Israeli political figure who I know. And I’ve known a lot of Israelis, including the Prime Minister of Israel, and I’ve never had a problem with any of them, basically. I’ve never been an Israel obsessive, but I started criticizing the war in Iran, and they started calling me an anti-Semite. And it was run, and it is to this day, run out of the Israeli government. And I know that because I know a lot of people in the Israeli government, because I’m 57 and I’ve been around.

So I called Danny Danon — well, I called Netanyahu, and he wouldn’t see me. Which was crazy because I’ve talked to him a lot over the years. I said, “I’ll come fly to see you.” Nope, didn’t want to see me. So I called Danny Danon and I said, “Hey, this whole ‘I’m an anti-Semite’ thing — I’m not an anti-Semite. I just don’t want to go to war with Iran. Can you stop doing this?” And he’s like, “We’ve got nothing to do with this.” And I said, “Come on, dude.” And he’s like, “Okay, yeah, yeah, got it, got it, got it. But we need this war.” And I said, “Well, let’s just have an honest disagreement about it, but stop calling me a Nazi because I’m not for using my military, the U.S. military, to fight your war. We can’t afford it. For one thing, we’re bankrupt.”

That’s almost exactly the conversation we had. And I’ve never told anybody that because it was a personal conversation, but he brought it up and tried to make it sound like I called an Israeli official to say there was a Jewish conspiracy against me. Why would I do that? It doesn’t even make any sense. And of course I didn’t say there’s a Jewish conspiracy against me. I have Jews on the show all the time who agree with me, including in Israel. I just interviewed Gideon Levy on Monday in Israel, who’s 100% on my side. The whole thing is so stupid.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: No community is monolithic.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, of course. My name is Swedish. My name is Carlson. Do I speak for Swedes? No. The whole thing is nuts and I’m not playing along with it. Everyone else is so intimidated — they don’t want to be called names. I’m over it. There’s too much at stake. I see what you’re doing. I’m not impressed. It’s a disgusting little tactic and I’m not playing along, period.

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On Justin Trudeau, Mark Carney, and Canadian Leadership

KARMAN WONG: Something else that you talk a lot about — and have talked a lot about on the record — is Justin Trudeau. So I’m not going to get you started on him. Let’s take a pause because he’s no longer the prime minister. He’s busy dating Katy Perry. Let’s leave him alone for a little bit.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: What’s your take on that?

TUCKER CARLSON: What’s your take on that?

KARMAN WONG: Oh, you don’t believe he’s dating her?

TUCKER CARLSON: I would always say he seems so gay to me, and then everyone would be like, “Oh, you’re a homophobe.” It’s like, no, you’re the one who’s imputing the insult. I’m just saying he seems super gay.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Well, Lindsey Graham also seems super gay. There’s lots of people.

TUCKER CARLSON: I think Lindsey Graham is super gay, but why is that homophobic if I’m not the one who said it’s bad? I’m just saying Justin Trudeau seems super, super gay to me, and people are like, “Oh.” That’s not homophobic. It just seems he’s the one who I think is not admitting it.

KARMAN WONG: Well, I was trying to swerve away from Trudeau and move you toward—

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: I thought we were taking bets on the plane. Like, is he going to call him gay? Or is he going to say he’s Fidel Castro’s son? That’s a conspiracy theory as well.

KARMAN WONG: But we have a new prime minister, Mark Carney. What’s your take on him?

TUCKER CARLSON: He seems exactly the same. I can never remember if he’s Keir Starmer or Friedrich Merz. They all seem like they came out of the same lab, and they all seem loyal above all to the banks — internationalist, pro-Israel, pro-China. Not super interested in their own populations, if not a little bit hostile toward their populations, and totally opposed to human rights. And by human rights, I mean the right to say what you think, to speak your conscience without the government stopping you, and the right to defend yourself. Those are human rights. Those are not rights that governments bestow. You’re born with those rights.

He seems, like the rest of those leaders, opposed to those rights. I don’t see anything distinctively Canadian about him. He could work in Brussels, he could be in Paris, he could be in London. I would like to see an actual Canadian who really cared about Canada, which is an amazing country and not doing very well, as you know, since you live there.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Why is Canada poor? Canada is the richest nation in the world. Canada has the highest ratio of resources to population of any country on planet Earth. It’s also the largest country on this continent — two continents. Yeah, like the second biggest country in the world. Why isn’t every person in Canada incredibly rich? But they’re not. They can’t buy houses.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: It’s a good question. So I’m trying to keep track here — not a fan of Justin Trudeau, not a fan of Mark Carney, not a fan of Pierre Poilievre. Is there a Canadian leader right now that you’re looking at and thinking, okay, there’s a good leader?

On Political Sameness and the Illusion of Diversity

TUCKER CARLSON: No. The U.S. is not so different at all. There’s something about the system that only produces Chrystia Freeland types. It produces the same kind of person with the same assumptions. I think those assumptions are wrong. They haven’t worked. Obviously your country’s not thriving. Neither is mine. This whole program doesn’t work.

But I think it’s inevitable because the systems — the rewards that we give, the merit badges, the titles — are given out to the same kind of person. And again, it’s not just Canada, it’s not just the United States. It’s Australia, it’s New Zealand, it’s the UK, it’s most of Western Europe. France is a little bit different, but most countries in the West — it’s the Netherlands, it’s Germany. The whole West is producing sameness. They talk about diversity, diversity. But the Sikh guy and the black guy and the white guy and the Chinese guy, they all have the same opinion. There’s no diversity at all.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: It’s just window dressing.

TUCKER CARLSON: 100%. They have the same worldview. It’s the least diverse system I’ve ever seen, and they will not tolerate any diversity — as you found out at CBC. You have a slightly different opinion, you’re not calling for violent revolution, you just have a slightly different opinion. And they’re like, “Oh, that’s totally unacceptable.” And it’s like, wait, what about diversity? Well, they don’t want it. They want uniformity. They want everything to be McDonald’s. And I just don’t want McDonald’s. I don’t like McDonald’s.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Okay.

TUCKER CARLSON: Or whatever. Tim Hortons. I’m not into it. Just give me something brand new.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: When it comes to diversity, equity, and inclusion, I think that this is used as a facade sometimes. And if you go behind the curtain a little bit, it’s not that at all. That’s why I think a lot of these programs need to get under the hood and look a little closer at what is actually going on.

But it takes me to the point of authenticity. One of the interviews that I turned on — I was like, “Oh, I’m not going to like this” — but it was a great interview. It was one that you did with Theo Vaughn, because you were talking about authenticity. I think that’s what folks want from their leaders right now. Do you think that they are seeing that from their leaders?

On Authenticity and Flawed Leaders

TUCKER CARLSON: No. Of course not. And that’s why people so desperately want it. And Graham Plattner, the candidate — I’m not like the most important person in America, but he’s in the news this week and he’s a very flawed guy. Damaged by war, and maybe other factors. And all this horrifying information comes out about his sex life and things he said online drunkenly, posting on Reddit or whatever, and the guy wins in a blowout. And Trump — you could say the same thing about Trump.

KARMAN WONG: Yeah.

TUCKER CARLSON: All this stuff comes out about Trump. It’s all true. And he gets elected anyway. Is that because voters want a guy who’s that flawed? No. But they do want someone who is honest. And they read that as honesty. It’s like, “Well, we know what he’s really like. At least that’s more than we’re getting from the alternative,” who’s so synthetic and so fake — like Mark Carney. What do you think Mark Carney thinks about in bed at night? I can’t even guess. And I’ve watched him pretty carefully.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: We’re trying to get him on the show, Tucker.

TUCKER CARLSON: There’s literally no chance of that.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: He’ll probably come on the show. I think maybe we’ve had most others. Okay. I want to move to this thing that we do at the end. It’s called our rapid fire section. You can’t think. You just answer.

TUCKER CARLSON: Good. That’s perfect for me. Don’t think. Just speak.

Rapid Fire

KARMAN WONG: You can rescue one of these people. Who’s it going to be — Ted Cruz or Sam Altman?

TUCKER CARLSON: Sam Altman. And that says a lot. One is an accused murderer, the other is Ted Cruz. But I just find Ted Cruz — if rescue meant physical contact, I just couldn’t have that with Ted Cruz because he’s so oily, he would slip right through your fingers. He’s from—

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: He was born in Calgary, I think, which is where I was as well.

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, he’s Canadian.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: No doubt. Yeah. What is more dangerous right now, politicians or artificial intelligence? The growth of it.

TUCKER CARLSON: AI is more dangerous, I think, because politicians, you kind of know who they are. They’re just sort of grubby and low-grade. Artificial intelligence— I actually had dinner last night with some people who are developing it, and it scares them. So there’s a lot of unknown there, I would say.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Yeah, we had Kevin O’Leary on. I know that you had him on recently to talk about this data center, which you’re very concerned about, the one in Utah, but he’s building one in Alberta as well. You recently told Megyn Kelly a little while ago, you said, “I have been,” and you said it in this interview as well, “I’ve been carried away by enthusiasm and sometimes anger.” Give us an example.

On Regrets and Being Carried Away

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, I mean, the number of times I’ve— calling Lindsey Graham gay, for example, which I think clearly is from my perspective. Maybe he’s not. He seems gay to me, but like, why am I even saying that? It’s just mean. I’m mad about Lindsey Graham’s politics. I’m mad about the effect he’s had on the country. I’m mad about all the people who’ve died as a result of his views. And rather than say that, I’m catty and I’m like, well, he’s just gay.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Maybe he’s a b about it.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, I am, which is a little gay right there. So I’ll admit it. Yeah.

On Kaitlan Collins

KARMAN WONG: Is this one true? Okay. You were Kaitlan Collins’ boss. If people don’t know who that is, she’s CNN’s White House correspondent. What do you think about how she’s been handling criticism from the president? How has she been doing?

TUCKER CARLSON: I don’t have a TV, so I’ve never seen her on TV, but I just love Kaitlan. And I hate even to say that because I don’t want to make her life more complicated. Getting compliments from me probably doesn’t help her at CNN at all, but she is a great person. In fact, my wife and I— my wife loves her too. We’re just— yeah, we hired her out of college. In fact, she was an intern while in college. One of the hardest working people I’ve ever met.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: The president is always on her about, you know, picking on her.

KARMAN WONG: Is she effective?

TUCKER CARLSON: Is that why? Because I think he probably senses she can take it. She’s a tough, tough girl, man. I mean, you’re not going to rattle her.

There are a lot of people running around DC, but a lot, to be blunt, a lot of women running in DC saying, “I’m really tough,” and they’re not. But she is. So yeah, he probably feels that.

On Sobriety

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: I quit drinking recently, and I saw a big change in my life. I saw that you did the same about a decade ago or so. Why and how did that change your life?

TUCKER CARLSON: Wow. Well, God bless you. Good for you. I quit 24 years ago in August, and I quit because I was an alcoholic and I lost control. Lifetime of heavy drinking, and then I just lost control, like, in the space of about 6 months. I couldn’t control my drinking and became obsessed with alcohol. It was bizarre. And so I quit. Thankful. Thank God.

Oh, it made my life— I mean, I wouldn’t be here. I certainly wouldn’t be happy. It made everything in my life possible. I don’t want to be overbearing or like one of those— I never went to rehab, but I don’t want to be one of those rehab guys where I’m boring you with my recovery story. I would never do that. But I really, in my heart, I just love sobriety. There’s so much that’s interesting and great in the world and beautiful, and you miss it when you’re loaded all the time. So I am thankful for that almost above everything.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Yeah, I say it’s like a haze that’s lifted.

TUCKER CARLSON: Yes. Yeah. Good for you, man. That is great.

Parting Message for Canada

KARMAN WONG: Why don’t we end on your parting message for Canada?

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh, beep. I mean, first of all, stop putting up with this. If your leaders tell you you’re not allowed to say something because you’re hurting someone’s feelings, it’s not about hurting someone’s feelings. It’s about preventing you from criticizing them. Censorship is always in every country at every time, a tool used by the powerful to protect the powerful. Not to protect the weak or Indigenous peoples or people of color, to protect the people in charge. And so do not go along with it. Go to jail if you need to.

You have a lot to be proud of. You have an amazing country. You’re probably the prettiest country in the world. I would say pound for pound, Canada is probably the prettiest country with some of the nicest people and a great history, an honorable history. And don’t let them tell you your history is dishonorable. Parts of it are, but in general, no. Brave, good people settled Canada and they did a great job.

So be proud of your country, be proud of yourselves, and do not accept limits to your human rights. If they tell you you can’t say that, say it anyway. They’re going to send you to jail, go to jail, but don’t put up with it. That’s my advice.

KARMAN WONG: Tucker Carlson, thank you.

TRAVIS DHANRAJ: Appreciate it.

TUCKER CARLSON: You guys are the best. Thanks for having me.