Editor’s Note: Former MAGA influencer Ashley Sinclair joins Mehdi to pull back the curtain on the coordinated, paid, and sometimes hate-filled messaging campaigns driving the online right. She exposes how MAGA influencers operate within exclusive group chats to push pro-Trump and pro-Musk talking points, while reflecting on her own journey out of the movement and the high personal cost of speaking out. (May 29, 2026)
TRANSCRIPT:
MEHDI HASAN: Ever wonder how the online MAGA media machine stays so perfectly in sync? How these right-wing influencers always happen to post the same exact pro-Trump, pro-Musk talking points at the exact same time? Could it be that they’re coordinating their messaging in one big group chat? Turns out they are, according to former MAGA influencer Ashley St. Clair.
Yes, the mother of one of Elon Musk’s children, who’s even attacked me on Twitter in the past, is now torching the online right and exposing some of their biggest secrets. Joining me now to pull back the curtain on the MAGA grifters is Ashley St. Clair. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Of course. Thank you for having me despite my necessary MAGA cult bullying of you.
From College Campus to MAGA Influencer
MEHDI HASAN: I don’t think it was bullying, but yes. Let’s start with your ascent then in the MAGA influencer world. Talk to me about how you got— you were a conservative, you had conservative views, as many do legitimately. Talk to me about how you got involved with the MAGA movement online. And did you 100% believe what you were getting pulled into, or was it more about, “This is good for my career, this is good money”?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I think it was a combination of a lot of things. I got involved in MAGA politics very young, at 18 years old, when I was on my college campus. I got involved with the Young Americans for Liberty and then the Turning Point chapters of my college campuses.
It was very quickly that, in conjunction with tweeting MAGA-isms and rather conservative viewpoints, that Turning Point decided I would be great for their special guest graphics and Turning Point events, and it just snowballed from there. And you do believe at least the core principles. I started out again on the libertarian side with free speech and constitutional values, and they really do a fantastic job of convincing you that all these MAGA-isms are logical offshoots of the values that you already hold.
The Wake-Up Call
MEHDI HASAN: So you’ve said that seeing your old tweets full of hateful, bigoted remarks is a rather horrifying experience today. But many conservatives don’t even think of those posts as hate-filled. They genuinely believe those are Christian or godly or morally correct takes. So as someone who’s been on both sides of this divide, I have to ask, what was your wake-up call? What did you read? What did you see? Who did you talk to that made you think, you know what, I’ve gotten this all wrong for the last few years?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: There were a lot of things. It happened slowly and then all at once. So there were moments that I would have friends who were trans that I was like, oh wow, these are not actually evil people who want to trans all the children.
There were moments that I would read certain items, and I’m embarrassed to say, but I had never read a slave narrative until my mid-20s. And there’s a reason that they want to keep people away from CRT, from certain language, the information sequestering that they do. You’re not allowed to read the mainstream media. All of these things are labeled as propaganda. Don’t trust your professors. In fact, you should report them to Charlie Kirk’s Professor Watch List.
And then there was a moment where I had to make a decision, which I was offered something rather substantial to not speak. And once you receive an offer like that, it really makes you stop and consider the gravity of your words, why your voice is worth so much money, and make a decision on your integrity and if you actually want to have any.
MEHDI HASAN: You turned down that offer?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I did.
MEHDI HASAN: Was it from Elon Musk?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I’m not at liberty to discuss, but I’ve turned down enough money that it is the GDP of a small nation.
Responding to Critics
MEHDI HASAN: Wow. I wonder how small a nation. Many who are skeptical of you attribute your shift to being burned by Elon Musk and MAGA. What do you say to your critics on the liberal left who believe your new views are just a convenient way to retaliate against your old friends?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Well, first of all, I’m not making any money from this. I’m back in school. I just finished out my semester with 22 credits, and I plan to go to law school. That’s what I want to do. I want to start fighting and making amends within the system that I believe is perpetuating a lot of harm.
And secondly, people are putting the horse before the carriage, because when I came out publicly, I knew what the reaction of MAGA was going to be. I was within this cult for almost a decade. I knew exactly how they were going to respond to me, and I was ready to be ostracized. I was ready to be done with MAGA and that cult. I was very aware that changing my opinions was not just changing my opinions, but it was blowing up my whole life. So I’m the type of person that in a relationship, once you break up with them, I’m already done, I’ve moved on while I’m in the relationship. So I was very aware that that was going to happen.
Believers vs.
Grifters: What’s the Balance?
MEHDI HASAN: We’ll come back to a certain relationship of yours in a moment, but just on what you mentioned, you said cult, and I just want to go back to my opening question where I asked you about what personally got you into this. Just looking at the people who are all MAGA influencers, and I’m still on Twitter for my sins, and I see all the freaks in the freak show, and I wonder, do they believe this stuff? Or is it just for money? You said cult. To be in a cult, you actually believe the stuff, right? You’ve been brainwashed. You think the dear leader really is the dear leader. But there are a lot of people in the MAGA cult who don’t believe any of this stuff. They just are making money off of it. What’s the balance? What’s the proportion?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I think it’s both. I think it kind of feeds on itself. It compounds upon itself because you believe it. But then if you want to change your ideas, like I said, you’re not just changing your political beliefs. You’re ostracizing yourselves from your social circles, your communities, the financial infrastructure, because these people are dependent on it. And then after you’re racist online for 8 years, it’s very hard to get a job at Pinterest or Starbucks. So it really compounds upon itself.
And there are people who are really just opportunistic grifters who in the green room of Fox are saying that they don’t believe anything they’re saying. And that’s certainly it. But for a lot of the lower levels of this cult, it really compounds and feeds upon itself.
Inside the MAGA Group Chats
MEHDI HASAN: I saw Riley Gaines, the swimmer and anti-trans activist who mildly criticized Donald Trump for posting a picture of himself as Jesus, got attacked by her followers and the next day said, “Isn’t Donald Trump amazing? I still love him,” even though Trump attacked her too. So you’re right, you’re stuck in that system if you want to survive.
Let’s shift gears for a moment. You’ve been outspoken about the coordinated campaigns that you say are driving MAGA accounts and influencers online. You’ve done these TikTok videos that have gone viral exposing some of the chats with some of your receipts. Just to be clear, what is the accusation here for people who are not following you on TikTok? Is it that MAGA influencers, the people you see on Twitter, the people who are pundits on cable news, they are all in one chat and they are getting specific talking points sent to them by Caroline Levitt and the White House?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Well, there’s not just one chat. There’s multiple chats that they operate in. Some are just sequestered to large MAGA influencers in which they send these paid campaigns. Others have members of the administration. Others have the Trump children, and they coordinate this messaging and react to things in real time. Here’s how we respond or don’t respond to any given issue at any given time.
They also have the paid campaigns in which messaging is pushed out, and it is very much coordinated through both paid messaging and just wanting to be in the club and not be ostracized.
MEHDI HASAN: Were you in these chats yourself? You’ve seen this firsthand?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Yes, those screenshots are from me. I was in these chats.
MEHDI HASAN: And these chats are not just lower-level freaks. These are big names of the conservative media machine.
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Members of Congress, members of the administration, people at the White House, people with the last name Trump.
MEHDI HASAN: Would someone like a Tucker Carlson have been in there until recently?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Tucker would not have been in something like this. He doesn’t really use social media.
MEHDI HASAN: But you mentioned, for example, the Trump children. You’re talking about Don and Eric are in these chats. Getting right into what the talking point should be?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I was in one in which Eric was in one, yes.
MEHDI HASAN: And who’s in charge of all this? You say coordinator, like who is the person pulling all the strings?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: So members of the administration, people like James Blair, who run messaging for the admin and the White House and the campaign. And there’s also people who run these consulting houses, these right-wing consulting houses that push a lot of this out because they have some plausible deniability and they can hide the money. So once the money goes from the campaign to the consulting house, they can then distribute it to the influencers and it’s not on any FEC report.
Paid Campaigns and Coordinated Messaging
MEHDI HASAN: So when you see people tweeting something after a story breaks about Donald Trump that’s bad for Trump, you can see that and go, oh yeah, that’s the group. They all got the line.
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Yes. And it goes beyond just the Trump administration. I’ve spoken about this before, but I was offered a hefty sum of money to promote Rick Grenell for Secretary of State when the admin picks were happening. And that day that I declined, I saw a variety of MAGA influencers who all of a sudden had the great idea spontaneously that Rick Grenell should be Secretary of State.
MEHDI HASAN: That was money well spent, allegedly, by the Grenell campaign. So what you’re basically saying is when I see a MAGA person online take any position, my starting point should be, is this really his position or did it come from the White House? Is this really his position or was he paid for it?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Correct.
MEHDI HASAN: How much do you get paid for these things?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: It depends on the influencer. Some people will get more of these paid campaigns because they lower their rates and they’re the lowest rate around. But they can go from anywhere from a couple hundred dollars to thousands of dollars for these tweets.
MEHDI HASAN: I can get a MAGA influencer to tweet stuff I want for a couple of hundred bucks like a Cameo.
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Oh, yes, you can.
MEHDI HASAN: Oh, wow. Now I’m getting all sorts of ideas, which I shouldn’t have. And did you leave these group chats or were you kicked out?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Well, I don’t know what happened to my placement in them because I’m not allowed to access Twitter since they’re suing me.
Free Speech or North Korean Cult?
MEHDI HASAN: We are going to come back to Twitter and suing you in a moment. Just one last thing on this. Isn’t it rather ironic that the party that claims to be about free speech is basically now just a North Korean cult movement that just says whatever the leader says?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Yes, absolutely. There’s no free thinking.
Ashley St. Clair on Nick Fuentes and the Young Online Right
MEHDI HASAN: You were a brand ambassador. You mentioned earlier you got involved with the MAGA movement via Turning Points USA college chapters. You were a brand ambassador for TPUSA, led by the late Charlie Kirk, before they fired you for appearing in a photo with white supremacists, including self-proclaimed Nazi and proud Holocaust denier Nick Fuentes. You are, I believe, a Jewish woman. So I’ve got to ask, what were you doing in a room with people like that?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: So the circumstances around that, first of all, I was never fired because they never paid me. They don’t pay people at Turning Point. But I had been on the receiving end of many attacks from Nick Fuentes after I had said that the Alabama abortion ban had gone too far. And then him and his followers decided to attack me for being a woman and being Jewish.
And someone who knew both of us said, why don’t you just meet Nick in person and talk to him? And me in my hubris of youth was like, sure, absolutely, I have a right to speak with him. And then after a few drinks, there was a photo that I should not have been in, but I ended up getting the call while I’m on the way to the hospital with a blood infection from Turning Point saying that I was going to be put in the doghouse and I’m giving statements to Right Wing Watch. High on morphine because I’m dying. So it was a very not great time in my life. And I made several wrong decisions there that I wish I could take back. But now I just have to try to fix my Google search results.
MEHDI HASAN: You are someone who’s been part of that world. Just go back to Fuentes. There’s a lot of discussion today. How much of the online young conservative movement does Fuentes represent, lead, dominate? The groypers amongst young Republicans, what percentage are they? In your view, how dominant a figure is Nick Fuentes amongst the young online right?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I think the ideologies that he promotes are very prominent, especially among the younger Gen Z crowd of the right. I think that is the dominating force. And that’s why you see people who are drawn to figures like Nick and Tucker Carlson. I think that’s incredibly prolific throughout the right.
The Right-Wing Podcast Wars and the Gaza Question
MEHDI HASAN: What do you make of these right-wing podcast wars, the Tucker Carlsons and Candace Owens versus the Ben Shapiros et al.? From what a lot of the reporting in the recent New York Magazine, Washington Post have big reports out recently about how Shapiro’s media empire is on the decline. Is the mainstream MAGA movement losing to the groyper MAGA movement or whatever terms we want to use?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I think they are in a sense, because whatever people may think of Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson, they are speaking to an issue. And the Democrats are also facing this issue in regards to Israel. Israel is a big issue. People are recognizing what’s happening, that it is a genocide happening. And it is Tucker Carlson and Candace who are one of the only ones offering some sort of nuanced opinion, or at least recognizing the atrocities that are going on there, recognizing that, hey, we don’t want a president that’s bought by Bibi Netanyahu. So that is speaking to something and offering any difference of opinion outside of the MAGA coalition that I believe is really attractive.
But I hope these individuals who are defecting, like the Marjorie Taylor Greenes and the Tucker Carlsons, that they do a lot more than just kind of say they were duped by Trump because they weren’t. Trump has always been this way. We just failed to see it and we really contributed to his cruelty. But I hope they also expose the things that they know because they know a lot more than they’re speaking about. And they certainly know a lot more than me.
MEHDI HASAN: Did I catch that correctly? Did you say what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Yes.
MEHDI HASAN: So you’ve also changed your positions on Israel, not just on domestic politics?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Sort of. I’ve never really spoken about it too much, especially being Jewish. I’ve had a lot of debates within my private family life, and it’s been very difficult for me to have those conversations publicly because of how ostracizing it is with the communities that I’m a part of. But I’ve really never spoken about it too much publicly because I was in MAGA and it was not really allowed.
The Danger of Online Influencer Networks
MEHDI HASAN: Just one last thing on the group chats before we move on. These influencers online who are getting together to kind of push these campaigns, often quite hate-filled, bigoted campaigns, how dangerous are they? Because on the one hand, you want to laugh and mock them because they’re weirdos and freaks. On the other hand, real-world violence comes out of some of these posts and statements online. Do you believe they’re dangerous, these groups that you were part of, in terms of real-world political violence?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Yes. And one thing I will say is that most of these influencers, including myself, while we contributed to harm, we were used and they are being used as pawns for much more powerful people. And to hyperfixate on someone like Libs of TikTok or a Chaya Raichik, who is a cerebral speed bump — she’s nothing more than a cognitive traffic cone. There’s not much going on up there. Rather than putting the ire on the elected representatives and the elected officials and the people of the upper classes who are promoting this, I think is a mistake. I think there needs to be much more ire for the people in positions of power who are promoting these individuals.
Regretting the Children’s Book and Changing Views on Trans Issues
MEHDI HASAN: In 2021, you co-wrote the children’s book “Elephants Are Not Birds,” which was a clear rebuke of the transgender community. Since then, you have said publicly that you feel “immense guilt” for your role in promoting transphobia and potentially causing “more pain,” you said, for your son’s half-sister, Vivian Wilson, who is one of Elon Musk’s several children. Tell us, what was it that changed your position on this specific topic? Was it, as you mentioned earlier, just meeting more transgender people?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I think that was part of it. And again, having the experience so close to home and thinking about my role as a mother and how I want my children to interact with the world and interact with individuals that they might not understand was really formative for me in coming out of that.
And also being exposed to people like Chaya Raichik and understanding just how much it’s a trans panic, how much they hate this — being on the side of MAGA where the trans panic is framed as an issue to protect women and children, and they don’t actually care about women and children. Instead, they’re scapegoating a very small percentage of the population to distract from much larger issues. And this is one of the first executive orders that Trump is signing. I just think it’s a complete bastardization of our consciousness, and it’s harming so many individuals to protect people in the upper echelons.
The Custody Battle with Elon Musk
MEHDI HASAN: After you made that post, Elon Musk, who is the father of your child, announced that he would be seeking full custody of your child, alleging that you implied you wanted to transition him. What was your reaction when you saw that from Elon Musk? And what, dare I ask, is the status of that custody battle?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I’m not at liberty to speak about that. Hopefully you can understand that. However, I think anyone reading my post in which I said, hey, I regret a lot of my prior statements and the harm that I caused — I think anybody with more than a third grade reading comprehension level understands what I was saying there and that I was not talking about transitioning my child.
MEHDI HASAN: Back in February 2025, Elon Musk, rather surprisingly, brought one of his children, his 4-year-old named Lil X, to the Oval Office during a press conference. People claimed back then that he was using his child as a sort of human shield, that reporters wouldn’t be as tough on him if he had his kid on his shoulders. From your experience, how does Musk view his children? Some kind of asset or prop to boost his image or even to give him protection?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Again, I’m not at liberty to speak about that. One thing I will say is that I hope people listen more to the mothers of the children. While this was going on, you could see Claire Boucher-Grimes was publicly pleading for people not to have her son in the media. And so I hope there is more respect for this because especially when there’s such an imbalance of power, I hope that people keep these children out of the media more.
On Falling for Musk and the Consequences
MEHDI HASAN: I understand the legal issues for you. I’m just going to ask this question, though, about Elon Musk and you. You spoke about the first time you met Musk, which was after he took over Twitter. He became a hero to the MAGA movement. What was it about him that interested you? And were his many flaws actually not obvious to you at the time?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: They were not. Well, when I first met him, I’m like, wow, he’s so much taller than I thought. And as a 23-year-old girl, I think I was just captivated by someone who was speaking about, at the time, and I believed him about this higher cause for humanity and doing so much more because the men my age are talking about the hockey scores. And so to me, it was just very attractive and intoxicating. And it’s this man with so much power who’s kind of a celebrity that it’s — it sweeps you up.
MEHDI HASAN: How much do you regret falling for Musk looking back on what’s happened since?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I don’t regret a second of it because my son is the most amazing part of my life. For my children, I regret nothing, and I would do it all over again, including every ounce of pain that’s come with it.
Being Targeted by Trump and Musk
MEHDI HASAN: You’ve got lawsuits going on, custody battles, as you’ve said already. Donald Trump, of course, has threatened many of his opponents with lawsuits, investigations, criminal threats. Elon Musk isn’t afraid to sue people he doesn’t like. Musk is, of course, buddy-buddy with Trump again. We’re speaking on the day they’re together in China, even though last year Musk was telling us that Trump was in the Epstein files. Do you worry at all that you are now an opponent of Donald Trump and Elon Musk, two of the most powerful men on planet Earth, that you could be targeted by them in other ways, not just lawsuits?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I am being targeted currently. I mean, we have people, investigators. There was an Escalade outside of our house yesterday. There’s people physically confronting the people in our lives. However, I’m not sure if you’re aware, but the mortality rate is 100% for humans. And so I want my children to know that they should never trade being materially comfortable for doing what’s right, and doing the right thing and doing what’s good takes sacrifice.
And for many, many years of my life, I chose material comfort over doing the right thing, and it’s not something that I’m interested in anymore.
The Grok Deepfake Lawsuit
MEHDI HASAN: You are currently suing Elon Musk’s X after its AI tool Grok created sexually explicit deepfakes of you in January, back when Grok was also getting backlash for allegedly creating child porn. As I’m sure you’re aware, Grok is still making deepfakes even to this day, despite X promising to stop it. Is this an issue that Elon Musk takes seriously, do you think?
Musk, Free Speech, and the MAGA Cult
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I don’t think that the leadership of XAI takes this seriously at all because they’re now countersuing me for trying to get some sort of remedy for this issue. Grok had undressed me and millions of other women and children. They undressed photos of me even as a child.
I saw a young girl. She looked about 4 years old. She was completely undressed and then covered in fluids, white fluids. I don’t know whose child this was. There were photos of me with my real child’s backpack in the background in which I was bent over and turned around.
So, no, I don’t think they take this issue seriously at all. But something I do want to highlight is that this scandal happened when Grok was facing a usage issue amidst a funding round. So amidst a multibillion-dollar funding round, this happens and their usage skyrockets. So I would like to know what the investors who invested in this funding round, what usage they were shown.
MEHDI HASAN: Just on Musk and his use of Twitter, he clearly objectively is not a champion of free speech. He’s actually a threat to free speech. Some of us said he would be back in 2022. I know you at the time were cheering him on and now you’ve switched your position. But as someone who spent a lot of time with Elon Musk, a lot more time than most people in private, is he someone who megalomaniacally believes, thinks he’s a free speech champion? Or is he in private someone who just accepts that this is all just a ruse? To kind of calm the MAGA rubes?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I don’t know that it’s to calm the MAGA rubes. I think he wants an insurmountable amount of data. The data that is being fed into now what is a behavioral inference model with XAI is, I believe, what the end goal always was.
I was a witness to him personally demonetizing and deboosting people who disagreed with him or was on the other end of his wrath. This happened to me once I sued and spoke out against XAI. My checkmark was taken and I was demonetized. I don’t think that he values free speech at all.
A Message to Those Still in the MAGA Cult
MEHDI HASAN: One last question I want to ask you is, what is your message to people still in the MAGA cult today? Not the influencers, not the pundits, not the Benny Johnsons or Laura Loomers, but ordinary people who still buy the Trump shtick and think someone like yourself is a traitor. What would you say to them?
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: I would say that I hope they recognize that the cruelty they are ignoring now will come back to bite them. Any cruelty that is happening is because we ignored cruelty ourselves. And I hope that you are brave enough to make a sacrifice and recognize what you’ve done.
And if you do anything else, this doesn’t require changing your beliefs. It doesn’t require voting for someone else, but get off of the internet for at least 30 days. And read some of the things that you’re not supposed to. Read books cover to cover. Try to remove yourself from the very sequestered information ecosystem that we’ve been made to be put in.
MEHDI HASAN: I’m not MAGA, but I feel like I need to do some of that. Ashley St. Clair, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. Stay safe.
ASHLEY ST. CLAIR: Thank you so much.
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