Rapper Jelly Roll on Joe Rogan Podcast #2424 (Transcript)

Usually that’s when they drop off.

JELLY ROLL: And it felt like I’d already cheated the game. I’d had multiple heart issues, you know. And I was like, man, I should really start trying to figure this out. I felt like I could feel myself dying, Joe, you know, and it was crazy because I spent most of my life thinking that—when I got to this point or that. If I never thought I’d get to this point, we’ll start there. As far as success.

JOE ROGAN: But even your hands look smaller. You have new hands.

JELLY ROLL: I’ve had to change my Oura ring size five times in this process. I’ve changed clothes for two years straight.

JOE ROGAN: I’m looking at your hands. I’m like, he has different size hands. Crazy, everything. Dude, I haven’t seen you in how long? It’s been at least a year and a half.

The Journey Since Last Time

JELLY ROLL: It’s been a year and a half. We did the pod. I was in this pod bragging about being 420 pounds because I’d lost 120. And I was in here excited about those 120, you know, and I would have never guessed that I’ve lost Ilya Topuria since then, you know what I’m saying? I’ve lost a whole other—a whole other.

When my chef said it best, he said, when Charles Oliveira fell off of Michael Chandler’s back, that was what you lost since the last time you—it would be like if a Michael Chandler just jumped off your shoulders.

JOE ROGAN: Isn’t that crazy?

JELLY ROLL: It’s crazy, Joe.

JOE ROGAN: It’s crazy. When I go walk with my dog, I put a 45 pound plate on a pack, and when I get done with the walk, I take it off. I’m like, whoo, that ain’t sh*t. You were walking around with an extra 300 pounds.

JELLY ROLL: Cam said this yesterday. It was so funny. He said, you know why you’re inspiring so many people? He said, think about how much David Goggins inspired people because he went from 300 pounds to getting in shape. He said, and you’ve lost David Goggins at his biggest. I’d never even thought of it that way. I was like, wow. I was like, yeah, that’s a whole—

JOE ROGAN: You lost a whole David Goggins, dude.

JELLY ROLL: My surgeon said I have 35 pounds of skin on me now. Wow. I mean, you’ve seen it. I showed you my short eye stuff. But it’s crazy, dude.

JOE ROGAN: That’s crazy. Just 35 pounds of extra skin.

JELLY ROLL: Just extra skin. That’s crazy. That’s just hanging off the front of me right now. Somebody said, doesn’t that hurt? I was like, not as bad as the 500 that was hanging. I’ll take these 35 over that all day, dude. Way, way fair exchange.

The Pivotal Moment

JOE ROGAN: So what was—you knew you were doing bad. You knew your body was not—it was not going to be able to function at that weight for very much longer. And so what was the pivotal moment where you made this decision?

JELLY ROLL: Here’s—this is why I wanted to do this with you. Thank you for letting me have this space, because this is what I want people to hear: every time I thought I had a critical moment, it was an emotional moment. So I’d get all fired up. I’ve been trying to lose this weight my whole life, and I yo-yo. 50, 70 pounds down. Go back up.

Me and my nutritionist, Ian Larios, were looking at notes yesterday. I spent most of 2022 between 480 and 560 pounds. That year, that’s how much I fluctuated. Just a year, up and down. Crazy, you know?

So it’s like I was just such a—so when I sat down and tried to lose it this time, I said, I’m going to take a different approach. I’m going to really take my time with it, and I’m going to think about what I’m doing and be intentional. I’m not going to let it be an emotional thing where you just jump up and go, I’m going to go run in the day. And, dude. And I was like, let me figure this out. And clearly, I’ve dealt with drug addiction, so I was like, maybe there’s something here.

Understanding the Biological Loop

I actually have this in my notes: overeating wasn’t a failure of willpower for me. It was a biological loop that I didn’t know how to interrupt.

JOE ROGAN: That’s a good way to put it.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: The problem with food addiction, as opposed to every other addiction, is that you have to keep doing the thing you’re addicted to. It’s the only way.

JELLY ROLL: And it’s everywhere. Not that crack isn’t everywhere and heroin isn’t everywhere, but it’s not—

JOE ROGAN: I’ve never—

JELLY ROLL: There’s not heroin on this table. You know what I’m saying? There’s a cookie on here somewhere.

JOE ROGAN: Probably there has been. But food is something that you need to sustain you to keep alive. Imagine if you were a gambling addict, but you had to play a few hands of blackjack every day.

JELLY ROLL: Every day.

JOE ROGAN: That’s crazy.

JELLY ROLL: You had to—you got to play at least two.

JOE ROGAN: Stay alive. Stay alive.

Breaking the Cycle of Self-Deception

JELLY ROLL: You can imagine. I started—and with that mentality, I said, well, the first thing I’ll do is let me—you know, how can I cut back how much I’m eating? And less eating periods. But the first thing I did was—every time I said I was going to lose the weight, Joe, I lied to myself. We talked about this. I would tell myself, I’m going to do this, I’m going to go do that. And then I’d go tell my family that. So the lie started with me, though.

You know, there’s a big person listening to this right now, or a drug addict or somebody who wants to change some part of their life that right now is going, “I’m going to start next Monday,” you know, or “I’m going to start Friday,” or “I’m going to start”—they have a start date. And then that Monday comes and they never do it.

I told you, I was like every other fat f*. Even when I finally did it on Friday, I was like, Monday, waking up and changing my life. And I was like—but I had an idea. I was like, I’m not cutting out food. I’m not dealing with nothing crazy. I’m going to do two small things. First, I’m going to cold plunge. Because I’ve been watching Dana White do it, and it seems to be working for him. That’s how just naive I was to the whole thing.

JOE ROGAN: At first.

JELLY ROLL: I was like, Dana’s cold plunging. He got in shape. I was like—and I reached out to Gary immediately. Right around that 39th birthday, I reached out to Gary Brecka, and I just sent a message to Brecka blind that said, “Do you work with fat people?”

The Journey Begins: Breaking the Cycle of Self-Deception

JELLY ROLL: I hadn’t seen a real case study of fat people yet. And lucky for me, Alina, their daughter, him and Sage’s daughter, was a country music fan. So she comes in like, “You ever heard of Jelly Roll?” And they’re like, “No.” She’s like, “You got to listen to this song, and then you got to help him.”

So Gary called. And Gary was like… And I said, “Gary, I’m going to start.” But he said, “Just start by trying to get 10,000 steps a day and getting in a cold plunge.” I’m like, “Dude, I’m 520-something pounds, 10,000 steps a day. It’s crazy talk.” But I got in the cold plunge for six minutes and I would go for a half mile walk.

That first Monday comes, Joe, it is pissing rain. Pissing rain. I mean, cats and dogs, dude. And I wake up and I’m like, “Sh.” And I’ve been studying about lying to yourself, that when you tell yourself you’re going to do something and you don’t do it, your body then starts to know that you don’t mean what you say.

So now when you tell your body to do something, your body looks at you like, “B, you ain’t never meant what you said to me. You’ve never followed through. What? F* you. You think I’m going to run? Because you tell me to run? Dude, you lie to me all the time.”

And I was in that concept, and I came out that morning dressed up in my stuff, and I was like, “Man, it rains pretty hard.” And my family… And this wasn’t them being a lack of support, Joe. This was just… I think this was me lying to them for so many years, that they wanted to save me my shame again and my embarrassment.

And they go, “It’s okay.” I think my wife’s like, “It’s okay, Papa.” Or my daughter was like, “Just wait till the rain quits or do it on the treadmill or something.” But in my mind, I was like, “No, I’m going outside.” And I was like, “I’m done lying to y’all, and I’m done lying to me. I told y’all I was going to go do this walk, and I’m going to do this walk.”

I didn’t want to get emotional this early.

I’m good.

JOE ROGAN: There’s nothing wrong with emotions, brother.

The Moment Everything Changed

JELLY ROLL: Coming.

I’m coming back from that walk.

And I’m coming up my driveway. It’s up a big hill. I’m bringing in Camel, too. It’s a huge hill. And I’m coming up the driveway to the hill, and all my family’s out there, carrying me on.

Clapping hands up.

I’d done nothing but lie to them for years about this weight. I’d done nothing. I’d never proved to them that I was going to change, that I’d be a man of my word in any regard. They had every reason not to go out there and cheer me on.

And that was, like, big moment. That was the moment, where I was like, “D*.” And I realized that in addiction, that…

An addiction, the family will…

Kind of cater to the addict. It’s nature. Like, if somebody in your family was a drug addict, you would… You would help with their kids, or you would… You would feel a need to help in their absence. It’s what we do as a family. It’s human nature.

And I realized then how much my addiction had been hurting his family, how much that my sex life with my wife was horrible. Dude, I married a f*ing big titty, blonde, beautiful woman, dog. I Married the kind of woman that makes you smile when you’re crying, Joe, and I couldn’t… I couldn’t even get aroused. I was so big.

I mean, I was having to play… I was having to play Twister to have sex. Left foot here, right foot in the X. “Are we in there yet? Tell me if you feel something.” I mean, it was bad.

My daughter, I think about my son, my brother would have to go throw football with him. I was too big to throw the football. And I was like, “That’s what my addiction has done to these people.” And here they are cheering for me. “Nah, dude, we’re turning up, we’re f*ing… We’re going to figure this out.”

So then I knew it was a mental thing. And I read a book called “The Fox, the Horse, the Mole and the Boy.” You ever heard of this book?

JOE ROGAN: No.

Asking for Help: The Hardest Thing You’ll Ever Do

JELLY ROLL: It’s a children’s book. Jeremy, if you don’t mind pulling it up, because it’s just… It’s just… Somebody kind of recreated Winnie the Pooh, but for our kids. And it was a children’s book. And I open it up and it has a moment where it goes, yeah, yeah, the boy, the fox…

JOE ROGAN: Oh, I have seen this. Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: You want to talk about a seven minute read that will change your life? But there’s a quote in there that goes, I forgot if it was the mole, but the fox or something looks at the horse and goes, “What’s the hardest thing you’ve ever done in your life?” And the horse goes, “Ask for help.”

Yeah, it’s just all these really cool little things. But when he said, “Ask for help,” I was like, “Wow, I need to ask for help.” It’s like whenever I was addicted to drugs and I had to walk in that room for the first time and go, “I don’t have control.”

So I called a company called Onsite that does therapy and I went and spent two weeks with a lady named Mary B. who wrote the curriculum for food addiction in the world. Like, she is an 80-something year old woman with glasses. Sweet soul of a woman. And we locked in the cabin and she said, “We’re going to figure out what this is.”

And I spent I think maybe two or three weeks in his cabin with this sweet old woman. And it was like no phone out in the woods. I walked every day, played with the horses. I mean, I just went, laid in grass. And it really took me all the way back through all my years.

And it was the first time that I didn’t just try to rush to lose the weight. I tried to figure out why I was carrying the weight. And that’s whenever I figured out that overeating for me wasn’t a failure of discipline. I’m a pretty disciplined guy. It was just a biological thing. I hadn’t learned how to interrupt.

I’d been doing it my whole life. It had been my constant go-to for stress. It had been… It was everywhere. All the time I was eating for… I had to start figuring out what I was actually hungry for.

Understanding Morbid Obesity: It’s Not Just About Discipline

When we talk about obesity, Joe, there’s groups like if you’re 340 pounds here, 330 pounds here, depending on your height, of course, you might be dealing with a discipline issue. Maybe you just like extra food. We can make small changes and get that off.

You start getting over 300, 320, you start… That starts being morbid obesity. Like there starts to be a real thing there. And I’m seeing it more now because I talk to tens, twenties of guys that are over 500 pounds that have reached out to me, like, “Please, what is this magic Yoda?” I’m like, “Consistency is the magic.”

But once I realized why I was eating… Here’s the note I took from therapy. I had my wife translate all my notes from when I was out there. And it goes, “Change. First of all, you change the way you think and talk.” But because 80 to 90% of compulsive eating happens between the ears, not the teeth.

So the average obese person is that big. And I learned this from her, is that they’re only eating 20% of what they’re thinking about eating. This is an all day loop that’s in your head. It’s like a drug addiction.

Me and Schultz laughed about this. I used to walk in rooms and scan. Like I would walk in a room like the Predator. Like, I would do one thing like the Terminator and be able to look, you and I and be like, “There’s a bottle of Snickers on that counter. There’s two M&Ms over here. They have some Lay’s potato chips over there.” Like, I knew my way.

JOE ROGAN: It was mostly sugar, all sugar.

JELLY ROLL: Me and you were talking about, dude, sugar. Well, processed food. I didn’t… You know how they said so Gary was like, “Get on a keto diet or a whole food diet.” And I was like, “I don’t think I eat whole foods now at all, anyways. I think I just eat processed foods with maybe protein in it.”

I mean, I don’t… Dude, I haven’t ate a piece of bread except for Thanksgiving in two years, Joe. I was colorblind. We talked about this.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, this is a crazy story.

Seeing Color Again: The Unexpected Gift of Health

JELLY ROLL: This is a true story, Joe. My wife will tell you. She laughs about it now, but I couldn’t see. I seen shades of colors, like general concepts, but, like, hunter green, emerald green. Like what? Green’s green to me. I never realized there was nuances in prettiness and that some were brighter and tone different. I just seen them, like, shades so bad that, like, that’s why I wore black. Johnny Cash was a lot of it, but two…

I’d always have to ask people, “Does my shoes match?” I was always off, dude. I’d say nine months into no sugar, I thought… I think I forgot what it was, but it was a plant at our house. And I come outside and I grab my wife and I go, “Dude, how long have we had that pretty purple tulip there or whatever it was?”

And she goes, “What?” I was like, “That is the prettiest purple plant I’ve ever seen.” She was like, “You’ve walked by that plant for two years. What are you talking about?” I was like, “There’s no way we’ve had a plant that pretty. I didn’t notice it for two years.” It was bright purple, Joe. I mean, it was screaming holy robe purple.

And slowly I started looking around the next few days, and over the next months, I was like, “I’m seeing clear color.” I couldn’t quit talking about it. I bought coloring books. My wife was laughing. This b used to have to give me a tie to match to go to court, and I’m in there coloring. He’s like, “What are you doing?” I was like, “You want to color?”

And I’ve got like 300 coloring pencil sets. I was in a deer blind with Cam Hanes talking his face off about a bird yesterday. He goes, “I didn’t know you like birds like that.” I was just… I like color. He was like, “Really?” I was like, “Yeah. I didn’t see color for, like, 20 years.” I was like, “It is…”

JOE ROGAN: That is so…

JELLY ROLL: It had to have been the sugar.

JOE ROGAN: Must have been. It must have been just rampant inflammation through your whole body, massive lack of nutrients. And your body probably is like, “F* colors. Let’s just keep this dude alive.”

JELLY ROLL: That’s it? Yeah. “F colors. Just keep them alive.” D.

JELLY ROLL: I never planned on living, Joe. Like, ever. Like, it was never in my plan, like, of life. Even as I was getting successful, I was like, coming out here and like life was getting good for me. And in my mind I was like, “Okay, good. When I die, at least my kids might be okay and they won’t be ashamed of me.”

The Journey to Health: Breaking Old Patterns

JELLY ROLL: That’s how I was thinking, Joe. I was literally thinking that way. In my mind, I was just pushing. Like, if I could just get this machine down a little bit, my kids won’t be ashamed of me. They won’t have to be the dad. At least their daddy died of obesity because he had mental health issues. But he was a cool f*ing dude, man, that did some cool stuff, you know?

And it was like, I never would have thought I could have this kind of life. I never thought I could even… Even when I sat here and talked to you before, in my mind I was thinking, man, I’ll probably never see Joe again. Think, you know, it’ll probably go any day for me, you know what I mean? Like, my heart could quit any day. I could relapse and overdose. I’m not thinking right most of the time. You know.

To like sit here and look at you now, like, dog, I’m going to be a 70 year old man with you, bubba. You know what I’m saying? Like, dog, you know what I’m saying? Like, it’s going to be cool. He was talking about my… You mind if I run through these for a second?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, please.

Understanding Blood Work and Insulin Resistance

JELLY ROLL: Well, let me preface this so because I want to talk about the labs. You were talking about my inflammation. But I got with Gary Brecka, I did a blood test, and this is something else I encourage big people to do. And your basic provider will pay for it more often than not. If you have just a standard insurance, just tell them you want to run it. Just standard blood lab, but tell them instead of just your A1C, this is important. You want to see your insulin level.

Because I was diabetic, but I wasn’t insulin resistant. So my diabetic marker when I first got checked was a 6.8. My A1C was a 6.4. Okay. Which is the threshold of what being a diabetic is. A pre-diabetic. The last point of being a pre-diabetic. 6.4. And I thought that when you are… When your blood work says you’re a pre-diabetic for 15 years, whatever, you know what I mean? Like, this is not going to kill me or nothing. I’ve had… Yeah, that’s what it said last time. I’m fine.

And then finally, they checked for my insulin. It was over 40, Joe. It was insane. And I don’t want to get this wrong. What is it supposed to be? It’s under five. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. So what happens is when your body goes to burn, when you fast, it has to burn through all your insulin before it’ll start burning through reserved fat. So when you’re at that high of an insulin level in your blood, you’re having to fast. So you’re hardly ever getting to the reserved fat burnage because it’s just constant insulin.

The GLP-1 Decision and Finding Alternatives

And this is where GLP-1s come in. This would be a great time to talk about this. So Gary goes, “Hey, man, your insulin side. We’ll just give you a shot, and this will change all this.” And I was like, “Cool, send it. Whatever. I’ll try it.” And then my wife’s manager, Mimi, started the shot. Did wonders for her, but she had the worst stomach issues. I have a bad stomach.

I started calling people and going, “Hey, man, how’s this shot working?” I was like, “Dude, we’re losing weight. Food noise is gone. You got to try it.” I was like, “What’s the side effect?” There’s one bad side effect. It tears your gut up. And I was so… I have bad reflux. And, you know, that’s the worst thing a singer can have. Nothing is worse for us than reflux. So I got scared of it, so I called Gary, and I was like, “Gary, I can’t do it. I’m afraid of it.”

So then I started doing research, and I was like, well, if I’m not going to do this, I’m going to have to fast to get my insulin levels down a lot. So I was fasting, and I was losing next to no weight, and I was doing the right thing. And as a big dude, that’s the most discouraging thing is when you’re actually not lying to people, because, you know, as a fat person, I’m programmed to lie like a drug addict.

Like, “What’d you eat today?” “Oh, grilled chicken and salads.” And I just ate seven Snickers, you know, so it’s like… Or I brush it off, like a big thing. My nutritionist would come in and be like, “Did you eat something last night after I left?” I’d be like, “Yeah, yeah, I just ate a little bit. Not bad. Just a little bit. A little bit bad.” But I wouldn’t quantify what little bit bad was. It was, you know. You know, it’s like…

Breaking the Cycle of Self-Deception

So I was just in a… I wanted to start being way, way more honest about everything in the process, and that was probably the biggest thing, so I would not lose the weight. And I’m like, “I promise you, Ian, I didn’t eat nothing but what you handed me, bubba.” He’s like, “Just stick with it.” And I just stayed with it. Stayed with it.

And then Gary got turned into Gary Brecka and took over the world. And I was lucky for me, I bumped into your friend, a guy named Brigham down here in Texas, and he introduced me. You met Denise, right?

JOE ROGAN: Denise, sure. I love her.

JELLY ROLL: This lady’s the lady who really… Gary started this journey for me, and I’ll never be able to thank him enough for it. But she brought it home. And Gary probably would have, but she had a brick and mortar and was just easier to get to. Gary travels the world, and I go to her and she goes, she runs my blood again. And my insulin got down to 37 by fasting.

And she goes, “You’re against the GLP-1s, aren’t you?” I was like, “Well, I made it this far, and I don’t want to do it with an asterisk now.” Now it’s just stubbornness. At first it started out of a fear. Now I’m just f*ing stubborn, you know?

The Metformin Solution

And this is where I don’t want to hide anything that I did do, because I think it’ll help people. She said, “There’s an alternative.” She said, “If you took a fourth of a dose of metformin, which 2,000 milligrams, what they would prescribe a diabetic… Let’s say we give you 500 milligrams, which is a real low dose, once a day until we just see this marker go down.” She said it might take a year because we’re not trying to rush it and throw a bunch of GLP-1s at it. We’re like, we’re just, we’re going to do this really slow. And that’s what we did.

And the first month I listened to her and I was losing, you know, I think I looked at Ian’s notes today. We were losing four to six pounds a month. Then it got up to that 12 and 13, that number we were looking for, you know what I mean? Of what we expect from a guy my size. But it was just that easy once…

Incredible Blood Work Results

Now my insulin… So I said all that to give you this. Oh, I’m so excited about this, Joe. My insulin was over 40. My insulin two weeks ago, it weighs the whale with Dr. Denise was 4.6. My A1C was crazy, right? And that was just… We’ve only been on the metformin for a year in November. So I think we’re going to come off of it now.

A1C was 6.4. It’s now 5.4, which that marker is a three month average of your blood sugar. Like that’s a real number to move that much. I know it doesn’t seem like a big number in a year, but that’s crazy. My C-reactive was in the sixes and it’s 1.2 now. That’s an inflammation marker. Vitamin D, while I was getting sick all the time was a 28. Vitamin D is at 100.

The Testosterone Transformation

This was the big one too. And this is where you say, “Are you natty?” I say, “No, sir, absolutely not. I’m a 40 year old male. There’s no way I was going to be natty.” My testosterone was one of a pre-juvenile child. When you’re that big. It was in the 50s. And you know, it should be in the 750s.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: My free test was 2.3. Joe Rogan. Oh my. My free test. You know what it is today? 149. I f*ing… You remember that problem we talked about? My wife?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Not anymore. I’m walking around the house like a tiger. I’m throwing over my shoulder like a caveman and throwing her on the bed every time I see her. You know what I’m saying? It is awesome, you know, and it shaped these were…

And I encourage people that if you can get your blood checked, there might be something there, you know what I mean? It might not be something big, you know, I still could have lost the weight without the metformin, but it might have took another year, you know what I mean? If I would have just had to keep nicking it down a pound a week because I was just having to get that insulin down so slowly. And that helped a ton.

And the test, of course helped bring… Because my estrogen was so high, my test was so low. Finally got the estrogen down in the test up so the fat starts burning. I’d done the mental work. I’d started really figuring out why I was eating the way I was eating.

The Three Rs: Reset, Reconnect, Re-engage

Because once I recognized the pattern, my three Rs changed it for me. It was reset, reconnect, re-engage. So every time I would go into my pantry to eat something because I’m a binge eater, I’d stop. My therapist taught me this, that on site, I’d stop and I’d reset. So I’d step out first thing, get out of the pantry. I have no business in here. Bad place for me. Go somewhere I’m safe where I can connect near my wife or somewhere safe, reconnect.

What was you in the pantry for? What version of you? What storyline of yours walked in that pantry? Was it 15 year old Jelly that thought he was a gangbanger and thought he was a thug that was just trying to be cool? That was actually a sad little boy that couldn’t connect with people. Is that the boy that just walked in there and tried to eat some cookies?

Or is this a 35 year old man or a 39 year old man that’s stressed from work? But I tell you what you’re not in there eating the cookies for is because you need them. You just ate a great meal, you feel f*ing awesome, you know what I’m saying? Like, there’s nothing about that cookie that’s good for you. And also, Jason, you are not a one cookie kind of guy, you know what I’m saying? You’re going to go eat the bag of cookies, you know, and then, then, then I reconnect, then I re-engage.

Because sometimes you go through all that, you go, “You know what though? I was thinking in there, but I do need to go grab the salt. Just go in there and grab the salt and get out.” But where I’m so programmed back to old storylines I walk into some… I’ve been going into the pantry to eat bad for so many years. I walk in there and forget what I’m in there for.

JOE ROGAN: I have to.

JELLY ROLL: Because if I sit there long enough, then it’s like, “Oh, well, there’s a…”

Healthy Snacking Alternatives

JOE ROGAN: There’s some stuff that you can eat that does nothing. If you just want to munch on something, man, get some celery and some radishes. Those motherf*ers have zero calories.

JELLY ROLL: Raspberries and blueberries were a big one for me. They don’t have zero calories. They have calories, but you could eat…

JOE ROGAN: That’s actually good for you.

JELLY ROLL: Bucket of them.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Before you get into the hundreds of calories.

JOE ROGAN: If you want to have some raspberries with some salt on them or not some raspberries, rather some radishes with some salt on them and some celery, there’s nothing in that. You just eat it and you don’t have to worry at all. You’re just getting some fiber and some nutrients.

JELLY ROLL: Pickles.

JOE ROGAN: Pickles are great.

JELLY ROLL: Pickles are another one I’d get onto also.

JOE ROGAN: If you get good fermented pickles, they’re actually good for your gut.

A New Relationship with Food

JELLY ROLL: Yeah. I did all the cheats early. So when I say cheats, I was hungry. So I go to my nutritionist and go, “Hey, man, just feed me whatever looks like the most food. You know, fluff it up. You know what I mean? I want a big serving of food because it’s my thing.”

And the cool thing is now I’m in a place where I’m looking for density. My relationship’s changed that much with food. Now I’m looking like, “Yo, what is… Do I have to eat this? Is there enough protein in this? Or can I only eat half of it?” And not because I have the weird relationship with food other ways now I’m just really feeding myself for what I need.

JOE ROGAN: Right, right.

You know what I mean? Like, I actually have a healthy relationship with food now, Joe. Like, if you cooked a big steak right now, like, you want one? I’d be like, yeah, absolutely. I don’t want to miss a steak with Joe. I’m down. I’m not weird. If we went to dinner, I’d eat. You know what I mean?

I just wouldn’t eat bread. There’s just certain things I have an absolute—it’s like a drug addict thing for me, there’s just certain things I just can’t do no matter what.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Bread is the one. Bread and pasta are the one. Why does it have to be the ones that are so God damn delicious?

JELLY ROLL: All the good stuff, dude.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, so delicious.

Finding Better Alternatives

JELLY ROLL: But I learned how to make all the good stuff better, by the way. Like, not better, but Larios is really so—a lot of my weight loss has come from, like, I used to always hear you say that you got into podcasting and talking to people about stuff you were just interested in, like, conversations you just thought were cool.

And then I thought about, that’s like, the approach to life. You know what I mean? It’s like, get like, dig it, do it. You know, draw inspiration from there, right? So I was watching—dig it, do it. If you dig it, do it. Yeah, you know, dig it, do it.

And I was watching UFC one night, which I’m a fan, too, and I was—this was six years ago, and I was like, I wonder who’s helping these guys get on the scale? You know what I mean? I was like, most of these fighters are poor. Not in a bad way. You know, they’re coming up. I was like, I bet I could pay equal pay. This was six years ago. I was like, I wonder who it is? And I got introduced to George Lockhart.

JOE ROGAN: Okay.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? Which famously, him and Mike Dolce, I think, are kind of both famously known for the guys who created the weight cutting protocol of today, you know? And I called him. He’s in Georgia for the holidays. He drives up to Tennessee to see me. We end up hanging out. George and me are buddies to this day.

And, you know, George is like, let me find you a guy. And that’s how he found me Ian Larios, who just came in to do nutritionist. He did a bunch of bully bees camps, but he’s been with me. People say, I had somebody tell me this, Joe, they said, “Well, of course you lost the weight. It’s easy. You got money.” You know what I mean? I was like, buddy, money can’t make you run these six miles.

JOE ROGAN: No. Everybody who says that is just making an excuse for why they haven’t done it themselves. You can’t ever say, “Of course you did it. You have this.” Just fing do it. Just do it. And, yeah, it’s going to be hard. And especially if your hormones are all fed up and your insulin levels all f*ed up, it’s going to be hard, but you can do it.

The Power of Sticking With It

JELLY ROLL: Well, the biggest thing, too, is stick with it, Joe.

JOE ROGAN: Yes.

JELLY ROLL: That’s my heart, y’all. It’s like, that’s why I said, give yourself one year, not three months. Because if I gave myself three months, I’d have been upset. I didn’t lose enough weight. It didn’t go the way it’s supposed to go. I’d have went back into my shame spiral.

We were talking about this. My whole thing was overwhelm, food, shame, repeat. That’s what I did. Yeah, I lived in that spiral, you know what I mean? And it’s like, I’ve been working hard. I’m not getting it. Sad me, I’m going to go to the pantry and punish myself, you know? I’m never going to lose this weight.

Where it’s like, if I’d have just waited for the year and really said, no, man, I’m going birthday to birthday. Which is why when me and Cam ran on this birthday of mine, it was so important to me because I was like, two birthdays ago was the first day I even thought about changing my life, you know?

And even last birthday, I was 400, you know, 380 pounds. And now this birthday, I’m running a 5K with Cam Hanes, you know what I’m saying? Like, dude, y’all can change it. If you hated your birthday this year, just give yourself a year. You know what I mean? You have a whole different birthday.

JOE ROGAN: It’s hard for people because they want immediate gratification, you know, they really want it all to happen immediately, especially in the society that we exist in today, where everything—I mean, this is why GLP-1s are so enticing for people, because you can get immediate gratification, you know?

And sometimes you got to just—you got to focus on little victories, these little tiny victories. Today, I didn’t eat cake. That’s a little victory, you know? And momentum is everything. It’s like that first day when your family was cheering you. That’s what it’s all about. It’s all about you did it. You went out in the rain when you didn’t want to. You did it. You came back.

Now you’ve got momentum. You have that good feeling of success, and that will enable you to continue to chase that good feeling. That’s the good addiction. I’m clearly addicted to exercise. If I take a couple days off, I don’t feel right. If I take a day off, I feel weird. I feel squirrely, like I got all this extra f*ing weird shit. Leave me alone. You know what I mean?

JELLY ROLL: I get off.

JOE ROGAN: I get weird, man. I get weird. I feel weird if I don’t do it. And I know people like, that’s horrible. Something wrong with you.

JELLY ROLL: Sure.

JOE ROGAN: But it’s a good thing wrong with me. I’m addicted to a good thing, right? I’m addicted. I’m addicted to staying healthy. Yeah. You know, they say—

JELLY ROLL: They say addicts, addiction, swap.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah, yeah. I’ve never had a bad addiction, fortunately. But I’ve had a bunch of addictions. You know, I’ve had, like, video game addictions. I’m addicted to playing pool. I was addicted to martial arts, but I’ve been addicted to, like, things that are beneficial. Luckily. Luckily. But I’m scared of all the other ones. I know that. I know it’s the same thing.

JELLY ROLL: How much of that do you think has played a part in your environment and friend group?

The Importance of Your Environment

JOE ROGAN: It’s huge. Huge. Because if you can get around a bunch of other people that are addicted to good things, then you’re all just doing good things and you’re all feeding off of each other. Yeah. It’s everything, man. You imitate your atmosphere always.

This is why I can’t be around negative people. I just—I’m too sensitive when I’m around negative people. First I try to help them, then I try to coach them, then I try to, like, see the world through their eyes, and then I’m reacting to them, and then I’m like, f*, man, you’re not helping me. I’m not helping you. You’re just dragging me into your vibration, and I don’t like it.

And if you don’t want to change, there’s not much I can do with this. And so I got to just ghost you. I got to separate. Because you used to save a drowning man. You know, sometimes you can drown yourself, you know, and there’s a lot of people out there that have wasted years and years of their life in toxic friendships. Yeah. You know, with negative people.

That’s what—

JELLY ROLL: Made me bring it up.

JOE ROGAN: Easy to do, man. It’s not—it’s not a mark on your character. It’s a normal thing that people do. And when you’re around a bunch of people that are positive and that are inspirational, then all of a sudden you start holding yourself accountable. Like, you know, what would David Goggins do? You know, what would Cam Hanes do?

JELLY ROLL: What would Cam Hanes do?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, what would Jocko do? And that’s a good thing.

JELLY ROLL: What would Rogan do? Yeah, I know you don’t like it when we give you compliments. But we think about it.

New Playground, New Playmates

JELLY ROLL: I said that because, like, I wondered if that was for you. Because the biggest thing, too, my note here is new playground, new playmates. You can’t heal in the environment that hurts you, you know?

And it’s like, I started praying for new friends five years ago, like, on my knees to God directly. Like, God, I’ve done everything I can for every friend I brought with me along the way. Everybody who came with me can’t go with me. Everybody’s not growing at the rate I’m growing, right? I need new friends.

I’m hanging—you know, when I was cheating on my wife, I was hanging around people that were cheating on their wives. When I was drinking tons of alcohol and doing tons of cocaine, I was hanging around people that’s doing tons of alcohol, tons of cocaine. So I’m like, I don’t—I want to be in—I want to change. Like, right, send me some friends. Send me—just send me some new interests.

And then I’d start bumping into, you know, I guess, six, seven, whatever it was years ago, guys like Cam Hanes, guys like Goggins. And I didn’t realize it then when they came into my universe, it was just from a distance in our YouTube channel. Like, oh, this dude’s f*ing nuts. Who’s this guy screaming at the camera, running all these mouths?

Yo, who is this guy that won’t quit his job that is, like, the greatest bow hunter ever and runs ultra marathons? And, like, he’s refusing to quit his job? The Internet’s, like, campaigning. Quit your job, Cam. You know what I’m saying? I was like, who are these guys? These guys are awesome, you know?

And even then, my—then that’s where the little scared kid of me comes out, like, ah, man. But you’ll—you know, you can’t do that, dude. You know how far you are away from even, like, being able to talk to a guy like that or being able to run or, like, you’re just too far, you know?

Even down to bow hunting, I’m a felon, so I’m not allowed to possess a firearm or be within a thousand feet of one, knowingly. So I’ve never been able to hunt, you know? Well, I didn’t think about the loophole. Y’all know it. The bow. The bow hunt. Yeah. You know, but also then you’re 500 pounds. It’s like, I’m really going to bow hunt. You know what I mean?

But it was new playgrounds, new playmates, you know what I mean? And I started really believing that and, like, just finding that. My uncle always said, if you hang around nine, you’ll be the tenth, so just look at the nine closest to you.

And even if it wasn’t a friends at first, it was just me being inspired by different stuff. Back to digging it, do it. You know what I mean? Like, dig it, do it. And I got into this. I was into—I signed up for the Two Bears 5K, because Bert was my friend, and I thought their podcast was funny. I never even met Tom. You know what I mean? I was like, this is a cool way to do it. You know what I mean?

Like, you know, like, yeah, I’m on the Internet, 500 pounds, waddling down a back road, going up, going to my first 5K in May, everybody. You know what I’m saying? It’s like—

And I’m like, I’m running and I call Cam because we’re friends by then, and I’m all excited. 470, walking my first two miles. A mile that day or whatever it was. I ran a whole—walked a whole mile. Call Cam. Doing a 5K. Cam, Cam, I’m going to come support you.

And Cam and Philip Franklin Lee walked that 5K with me. It took us an hour and a half, Joe. I mean, listen, I’m surprised Cam did. Cam could have rolled faster. He could have crawled. You know what I’m saying? We watched both of his kids run by us three times in jeans, you know what I’m saying?

And—but that’s like—it goes back to changing your friends. Like, there was a guy that wanted to lift me up, a guy that Cam—Cam used to tap me on the shoulder when I was 500 pounds and go, “Dude, we’re going to bow hunt one day. I’m going to take you bow hunt, dude.”

And I would remember thinking, this motherf*er’s crazy. You know what I’m saying? Like, there’s no way me and this dude are ever bow hunting, you know, and we’re bow hunting, you know. I just came out of a blind this morning. We’ve been—I’ve been down there bow hunting with Cam. Ran my first 10K with him yesterday. But it was—it was completely the—the new playground, new playmates thing for me.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: You know?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, it’s fuel. If you can get around people that are real positive, that are doing good things and they’re excited about life, it’s very contagious.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah, it is.

The Power of Positive Content

JOE ROGAN: I think that’s one of the really positive things about the Internet that you can be introduced to the way these people live their lives, and you can see videos on them, you can hear them talk on podcasts, and you can realize that people like this exist and then try to find them. Try to find people like that and try to become like them. You can. You could assume those positive attributes, and you can incorporate them into your life. It’s completely possible.

JELLY ROLL: Sure.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: And it’s real. I mean, I did it. I am an ex. Somebody is listening to this right now. And as crazy as this is going to sound, I was you eight years ago. I was listening to the Joe Rogan podcast. It was the beginning of me starting to be like, what I put in my body comes out. What I eat, I s*. What I drink, I piss. What I hear, I believe.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: And then I realized I was listening to a bunch of true crime, a bunch of negative stuff. All my phone, all the time. I was watching fist fights at bars. Like, this was my algorithm. My algorithm was just completely f*ed. So it’s like, okay, I need to start changing my algorithm. I need to find cooler stuff to put into my algorithm. Things. More knowledge, learning stuff.

Taking Control of Technology

JOE ROGAN: Tell me, what have you done with the phone thing? So the phone thing is interesting.

JELLY ROLL: It’s been real interesting. I got one now. I got one two months ago. I took a year. So part of the weight loss, I took a year off of a phone completely. I used to get drunk, give my number to everybody at a bar. So I would wake up after an award show and have like 3,000 unread text messages of people like, “congratulations.” And I was just like, oh, God. I was missing like big messages.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, that’s a problem with me. Yeah, I got that problem.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah. I could imagine where you look back and you’re like, the President text me. Not me. But I bet that’s happened to you, where you’re like, I missed an entire text from somebody of that stature. And you’re like, dude, this is crazy. And I was like, I think that I was using it as another way not to connect. I have an avoidant personality. Like, I’ll isolate, or I can do it just right in a room full of people, if I hop on the phone.

And I was just like, man, I want to be more present. I remember sitting doing stuff with my son and daughter, and I was scrolling Instagram once again, watching bar fights. Nothing that was helping. I was just completely disconnected.

JOE ROGAN: It’s another addiction.

JELLY ROLL: And with my personality, I got to watch those. So I got a phone two months ago and I just didn’t put social media on it. I have YouTube because that’s my app and I trust YouTube. YouTube is where I get good stuff. It doesn’t give me 60 second burst of s* I don’t need. It gives me long form of good stuff. I find channels that I really dig and it’s like, back to new playground, new playmates.

I never, I know I’m super late to the party, never heard of the Outdoor Boys until last year. Whoa. I’ve been missing a whole new thing a lot.

JOE ROGAN: He’s back, right? He’s doing it again.

JELLY ROLL: Back.

JOE ROGAN: Ish.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: He took some time off. Right. I think he felt like it got overwhelming. The success of his channel got too crazy and he didn’t enjoy the pressure.

JELLY ROLL: But you know what I think he was doing? This is, you want to speculate a little bit together about this. I think he was doing the coolest dad thing ever because he goes on there and goes, “look, this has been a little overwhelmed for me and my family. Me and my wife are out of this. And frankly, I got two boys that want to be YouTubers themselves, so I think I’m just going to help them.”

And I follow his son’s channel. His son’s got 3,000 subscribers. He camps by himself like his dad did. He’s 12 years old, doing solo camping trips.

JOE ROGAN: Dude.

JELLY ROLL: His name’s Outdoor Tom. So it’s like, and he’s been posting and his dad’s on his channel. So I think the dad just built his channel, got big and was like, dude, I think I’m just going to leave this legacy for the boys, man. I’ll just help them out. But he’s kind of been poking his nose back around here and there and he helped his friend out that had cancer. I thought that was the coolest thing.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: What was the name of that channel? Jamie? I don’t want to blow this. They deserve a shout out because that was really cool.

JOE ROGAN: My Life Outdoors. Yeah, My Life Outdoors. And so that was a recent video that they made. Yeah, yeah. He’s a very interesting guy.

JELLY ROLL: I wish he’d come talk to you.

JOE ROGAN: If he was interested, I’d definitely have him on. I really have, I watch a lot of those shows. That’s one of a part of my YouTube algorithm is dudes who go out into the woods by themselves.

Finding Medicine in Nature

JELLY ROLL: This is my new algorithm. See, this is me trying to change my playground because this is all back getting into shape. Now, I don’t look at that as an achievable task. I look at that like, next winter, me and Cam are going to go hunt somewhere. We’re going to take a f*ing tent. We’re going to go out there and get lost in the woods.

JOE ROGAN: Camp on your back.

JELLY ROLL: I think we can do it, dude. Oh, I think I’m going to be in shape enough to do it.

JOE ROGAN: You’re probably in shape enough to do it right now.

JELLY ROLL: I’m only going to get better.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, no, I mean, I watched you on the treadmill today, man. You’re in shape to do it right now. Yeah, you could do it. But it’s, that’s a beautiful thing, man. It’s a really beautiful thing. And just to be out in the woods like that is, it’s a, I think it’s like a form of vitamin that people haven’t recognized yet.

JELLY ROLL: It’s medicine.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. There’s something to it. I mean, that sounds hokey and new agey, but I’m telling you, man, if I don’t get my time in the woods at least a couple times a year, three, and I really want to do it way more often, I just can’t. I’m just too busy. But it empties all the bulls* out of my life.

The mountains don’t give a f what’s going on in your life or how many likes your last fing social media post got or who’s upset at you. They don’t care. The mountains are the mountains. Those animals don’t give a f if you just won the Grammy. They don’t give a s. Oh, Jelly Roll’s here, let me offer my vitals.

JELLY ROLL: No, sir, not the case at all.

JOE ROGAN: There’s no charisma out there. There’s no cult of personality. There’s no, it’s all, it’s just wild and it’s beautiful.

JELLY ROLL: You always been outdoorsman?

JOE ROGAN: No. I used to fish when I was a kid. I used to really love fishing. And then I got away from all of it for a long time until Rinella took me hunting. And that’s when I got that mule deer, that one that’s sitting on the table right there. That’s the first animal ever shot.

JELLY ROLL: Bow or rifle?

JOE ROGAN: Rifle. That was a rifle. And then Cam took me on my first hunt with a bow. I got a black bear.

JELLY ROLL: That was your first hunt bear?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: God. I’m trying to get him to take me one of those in May.

JOE ROGAN: It’s good.

JELLY ROLL: And I want to do elk next year.

The Reality of Bear Hunting

JOE ROGAN: Bear is a good one because, first of all, it’s scary, which I think is good. And, dude, it’s something about you eating a bear that’s just wild.

JELLY ROLL: They’re kind of fatty, right?

JOE ROGAN: It feels crazy. Yeah. Well, not that bad. I mean, they definitely have a lot of fat on them. They taste good. That’s a big misconception. I mean, I’ve never eaten a grizzly bear, which I’ve heard are pretty rough. But my friend Ryan Callahan just shot a grizzly bear, and he says it’s delicious.

I think the thing about a bear that’s a little daunting for a lot of people is trichinosis. And you have to cook a bear like 100, and I think the number is 160. I think that’s what it is where you got to make sure that that meat is 160 degrees so you don’t get any parasites, because trichinosis is rough.

JELLY ROLL: God, I can’t believe your first bow hunt was a bear. I’m on my first bow hunt as we speak. And it’s for a deer, and I definitely, I needed to do this. If I want to see a bear, I am out there. I mean, stomach and heart and stomach. Stomach and pants.

JOE ROGAN: Well, I think Cam took me bear hunting because in Alberta, the way they do it, they do it over bait. So they set out oats, and they use beaver carcasses and all these different things. So the animals and people are like, “oh, that’s cheating.” Listen, there is no other way to find these animals.

In Alberta, you’re talking about dense forest. Dense forest. It looks like a box of Q tips. You can’t see s* out there. You’re not going to find them before they see you coming or hear you coming or smell you coming. If you want to hunt them, you have to use bait or you have to use dogs. And that’s how they used to hunt them in a lot of places. They used to tree them with dogs. Then people would shoot them.

And people are like, “well, that’s horrible, too.” But you have to control their population. If you understand wildlife biology and wildlife management, you must control the populations of predators. And then John and Jen up in Alberta, where they took me, they know how to cook bear really good. Jen is an excellent cook, and she’ll cook a bear roast, and she rubs it down, puts it in a Traeger, and they’ll slow cook it for 12 hours, smoking.

JELLY ROLL: The bear. Was it the bear you killed? You could eat that one.

JOE ROGAN: We definitely ate some of that, too. And there’s another thing that Rinella taught me called bear candy, which was great. It’s like, basically like Chinese food. It’s like sweet and sour bear. It was really good. Yeah. And then Cam brought over some bear sticks. He gets some meat sticks made at this one butcher that he goes to, this one meat processing place.

But the misconception is that bear tastes bad. It does not taste bad. It tastes like beef. It tastes like a weird, beefy kind of animal.

Historical Hunting Practices

Here’s a weird, fun fact. When settlers or the pioneers first were making their way across North America, they didn’t eat deer. They were eating bear. And they were using deer for skins. So a deer skin was worth $1. And that’s where the term buck come from.

JELLY ROLL: No f*ing way.

JOE ROGAN: Yes. The term a buck comes from the price of a deer skin.

JELLY ROLL: No. And they were just throwing the meat away.

JOE ROGAN: Exactly.

JELLY ROLL: Wow. How long ago was this?

JOE ROGAN: 1700s, 1800s. They didn’t know anybody. Not only that, all those buffalo that people shot. Buffalo is very expensive meat. It’s delicious. It’s fantastic. I think it’s superior to beef. They didn’t eat the beef. They didn’t eat the buffalo. They were eating their tongues. They were killing them initially for their tongues, and then they would pickle the tongues and send them to New York. And people in New York were eating pickled buffalo tongues.

JELLY ROLL: Wow. They were throwing away thousands of pounds of buffalo. Good buffalo meat.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Oh, thousands of pounds. And then they started using their skins. So buffalo hides became valuable, but it wasn’t the meat that they were after, which is crazy, because they basically almost made them extinct. They came within a hair’s breadth of making bison extinct in North America.

JELLY ROLL: Just by giving away tongues.

The History of Market Hunting and Conservation

JOE ROGAN: Well, also because they opened it up to the market. So market hunting was a giant problem with wildlife in North America. What that means is they didn’t have refrigeration back then. Right. So you needed a constant supply of meat. And, you know, you could salt things down and transport them that way. And there’s a bunch of different ways to avoid the breakdown of bacteria.

But essentially, you couldn’t. There was no f*ing freezers, you know, so market hunting almost wiped out all the whitetail. It removed elk from most states. You know, the states that are in that have elk, wild elk right now are a tiny handful of the states that used to have elk in, like, the 1600s, the 1700s. It’s all the settlers came from wherever, and they shot them all.

JELLY ROLL: Wow.

JOE ROGAN: And they shot them all and brought them all to market. You know, that was a lot of it. And so then they made market hunting illegal. And then, you know, they designated areas public land. And, you know, this is the Teddy Roosevelt thing. And what they did was really an amazing.

What they did. An amazing example of conservation in North America that really doesn’t exist anywhere else is our wildlife management and also our natural resources, public land management. So we have public land in North America where you could apply for a tag. You could get it like we did with that mule deer.

We shot that mule deer in Montana, we got a tag and went out into the Missouri breaks, and then we, you know, found that animal and shot it and ate it. And anybody could do that. It’s part of you being an American. If you fill out the right paperwork and pay for the tags and all, that pays for the management of this land and for wildlife biologists and park rangers and all those kind of different people that game wardens that help, you know, keep all this stuff managed.

JELLY ROLL: Wow. See, I didn’t even know you could hunt public lands until recently. Whenever Cam and them were fighting back about the bill that was trying to get rid of some of it.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, man, they were trying to sell off some public land. It’s a f*ing dangerous, slippery slope, and you can’t let that happen ever.

JELLY ROLL: It’s kind of like freedom of speech, man. Any infraction of freedom of speech is a complete infraction of freedom of speech.

JOE ROGAN: I mean, it’s deteriorating really badly right now in the UK.

Discovering the Outdoors

JELLY ROLL: I’m loving the outdoors, though. I’m loving learning about it. Like, even here in Utah. I’m just over here like, yes.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, it’s an amazing thing.

JELLY ROLL: You know, I just got my first hunt license yesterday, you know what I’m saying? Day before yesterday. So it’s a big deal for me.

JOE ROGAN: That’s awesome.

JELLY ROLL: I’m having. You want to hear my first big amateur mistake I made?

JOE ROGAN: Sure.

JELLY ROLL: This is a good one. I told you one of them. But I’ll tell you the one I didn’t tell you because it’s way better. I’ll save this one for the air. We’re in there the first night, and it’s like kind of. It’s not nippy, but it’s like when the sun went down, it was cool, but it was still, you know, I was just so adrenaline up.

The first night, a doe comes out, Joe. And I thought I was going to s* myself. I mean, I had to stand up, I farted, my stomach was bad. It was just so. It was every emotion I didn’t think I was going to feel. And I’m doing it with like the greatest bow hunter ever sitting behind me. And lucky for us, Cam’s a sweet dude, so he’s just entertained by it.

JOE ROGAN: He really loves helping people get into.

JELLY ROLL: Bowhunting, you know, that speaks again to who he is. Like, to be who you are in that. That’d be like me loving, going and meeting first time songwriters. Like, I’ve never wrote a song and me being like, that’s my favorite. Let me sit down and show you how to start. You know what I mean? Which I don’t necessarily feel that way to be. So it’s like for him to care.

But I’m sitting there and the next morning we go, and it’s f*ing cold. And I’m shaking anyways because, you know, I’m nervous and I’m shaking because it’s cold. So when we go back that night, I bring my hoodie in case it gets cold, but I don’t put it on. And we’re sitting there, and as soon as the sun goes down a little bit, it gets cold in that blind bubble.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: And I’m sitting there like.

JOE ROGAN: Well, you’re also not moving. Not moving.

JELLY ROLL: If you were walking around in the.

JOE ROGAN: Cold, that’s a different thing.

JELLY ROLL: No, we’re just sitting and I’m like. And I’m like, Cole, Cole. And I don’t even think about it. Now, keep in mind, there’s two does in front of us and there’s a buck maybe 80 yards away. Cam said this, and it’s the most gangster thing. “Bow hunting starts where rifle hunting ends.” Bow hunting begins where rifle hunting ends.

The moment you see a buck, when you’re rifle hunting, for those listening that don’t know, you just shoot it. It’s that easy. You see the buck, you better shoot it right then as soon as you get a clean shot. The moment you see the buck when you’re bow hunting, that’s Operation Chill. Get him as close as you can get them and find the right shot. It’s the total opposite of rifle hunt, which I haven’t rifle hunted since I was 10 anyways, but so I’m sitting there and it’s cold and there’s. I see the buck in the back and I’m like, you know what?

JOE ROGAN: Can I ask you something?

JELLY ROLL: Yes, sir.

JOE ROGAN: You’re not allowed to own a firearm or you’re allowed to operate one?

JELLY ROLL: No, sir.

JOE ROGAN: No. So you can’t rifle hunt at all?

JELLY ROLL: No, sir. I’m on my first hunt, pretty much.

The Path to Redemption

JELLY ROLL: Well, this is interesting. I am slippery slope for me. I am up for pardon this year. My paperwork has been sent into my governor and he considers pardons in every December. So every day I’m just kind of praying, you know what I mean?

But even if he gives me the pardon, unfortunately Tennessee has a zero forgiveness policy for violent offenders. So I would be pardoned, but I wouldn’t be adjudicated. What’s it called when they exonerated? Exonerated. I wouldn’t be. The charges aren’t completely gone.

So what I’d have to do is, and this is my hope, is that my goal in this is that I want to reach out to legislation eventually and go, “Hey, like, if nothing else, I’d like my run my right to hunt.” Like it’s done a lot for my mental health, it’s done a lot for my physical health. Like, it’s been a. Being able to start going on that first bow. These are little markers that I put on the calendar, you know, when I’m 400 and something pounds and I’m like, “All right, next year, Cam said he’s taking me on my bow hunt. I got to get there.” You know what I mean?

Like, “All right, next year, I’m not going to run that five K, an hour and a half. I’m going to do it in 45 minutes,” you know what I mean? Like, these are those markers. So I want to go to them and go, “Look, I understand if you’ve ever raped somebody or killed somebody, but I think that every. It should. There should be some path to redemption.”

Even if it takes 30 years, put something unrealistic up there, you can’t get a speeding ticket for 20 years. But, like, I think it’s important for people to have a path to redemption. I’m a redemption guy, you know, if God didn’t just show me so many paths. You know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: Well, I think it’s one of the more beautiful aspects of Christianity that it does offer you a path to redemption, like a true, legitimate path where you can become a different person.

JELLY ROLL: Literally.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Can people not judge you on the old person anymore? Judge you on the person?

JOE ROGAN: I get it. For the public safety aspect of it, it’s hard to know if a person’s redeemed themselves. I get that it’s hard.

JELLY ROLL: And if you make the wrong decision, man, I couldn’t bear the burden of your conscience of that neither.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JELLY ROLL: But then you do have cases. And I know I’m not the only one of people who have, like, even little things, like, I mean, outside of hunting. Joe, it’s not that I’m a big. You know, I don’t have a. I just wish I could protect myself.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JELLY ROLL: You know, it’s like I’m a million dollars plus a year in security. I’d cut that bill in half tomorrow if I had a great Gary.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? For sure. You know, but. But at least let me hunt. I mean, my heart’s right. I just want to feed the family and go out and spend some time with the boys and do some population control. We don’t kill them deer in Tennessee. They’re taking over anyways, you know what I’m saying? Sure.

JOE ROGAN: You got a lot down there.

JELLY ROLL: They’re every. Not like these monsters down here, but they’re everywhere. Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Well, that place that you’re at is a particularly unique place.

Cactus Jack Ranch

JELLY ROLL: Cactus Jack, giant deer. Dude, it’s called Hunt Cactus Jack. I found this out. Do you remember the old vice president from here was called Cactus Jack?

JOE ROGAN: No.

JELLY ROLL: Will you look this up, Jamie? This is a cool story. So the vice president, I think it might have been during Roosevelt’s term, maybe even. Or one of those. Maybe Teddy. But his vice president was a Texas governor or something. And the guy was famous because he’s the one who tried to make the cactus plant, the Texas state plant. So they called him Cactus Jack because of that. And then Cactus Jack. Yeah, There it is.

JOE ROGAN: There he is.

JELLY ROLL: Look at him.

JOE ROGAN: Dude, he looks like a Cactus Jack.

JELLY ROLL: He looks like Cactus Jack. Yeah. Jim Nance Garner.

JOE ROGAN: Wow. Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: He was a lawyer, longtime congressman. He was the one who tried to make the cactus the safe flower for Texas.

JOE ROGAN: Wow.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah. Who was the vice president to Roosevelt.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. The effort failed in favor of the blue Bonnet, but Cactus Jack moniker stuck with him throughout his long political career.

JELLY ROLL: So. So when he opened this place. How many years ago, the guy who bought it from him was super excited. He told me the story last. Look at how gangster that is. That’s Cactus Jackson Jack.

JOE ROGAN: Cigar with two pistols.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah. We could never get away with that right now in politics.

JOE ROGAN: I know, right?

JELLY ROLL: But Cactus Jack, he’s a. But the ranch is great. The guy who owns it, Mr. Jerry, was telling me the history of it last night. They kept true Texas deer genetics. A lot of the Texas ranches will have import genetics. And he was like, Cactus Jack was big about making this a tried and true Texas ranch. And he is dead set on dying by keeping it that way. This guy Jerry that owns it, well.

Hunting White-Tailed Deer: A Religion in South Texas

JOE ROGAN: It’s like, especially South Texas, hunting white-tailed deer is like a religion.

JELLY ROLL: It’s a religion.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. It’s a big thing for those folks. And to grow big deer down there and to make sure that you manage the genetics correctly. Like you don’t shoot any animal that’s under like six or seven years old. There’s a place that I hunt in Utah that does that with elk. It’s like a really well-managed place does that. They make sure there’s some places where, when they have hunting season, everybody just goes out into the woods. Kids get a day off school and they shoot everything they can, which is great. You get meat, it’s great.

But the problem is if you want very impressive animals that are mature, which is also better for the entire genetics of the herd, because these are the animals that have lived full life. They’ve spread their genesis and then you shoot them at the end. At the end of their life. So they’ve had a long full. And by the way, when you’re getting an animal that’s 7, 8, 9 years old, they really don’t have much time left.

JELLY ROLL: Well, you know, they were telling me, you’re so right about that. They were saying some of them, they’ll try to wait and let them have another year and they won’t make it anyways.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, they won’t make it through the winter.

JELLY ROLL: Sometimes they’ll just, you know, they just won’t make it. He said, so they’ve, yeah, no, they’re dead. This guy is doing it. I mean, obviously, I’m not the case study. Cam should talk about it, because I’ve been on one hunt. But the deer I see on my property back home, compared to these deer. These deers would eat those deers, you know what I’m saying? Like, these, those, these deers would f* those deers in the butt. You know what I’m saying? It’s like, it just, it’s a totally different thing.

JOE ROGAN: It is a different thing, but that’s a very exceptional place.

The Hoodie Mistake

JELLY ROLL: So I go, I go to put my hoodie on. That’s where I f* up, Joe. I’m cold in this blind. And I could, like, I said, Cam, hold my bow. And I should have said, Cam, can I put my hoodie on? Because Cam would have been like, no. You know what I’m saying, right? But I was like, all right. And in my mind, so I was going to slide one arm through, and I was going to wait 30 seconds to slide the other arm through because I didn’t want to be shaking if I got my shot. And I seen my buck across the field, right?

But I put first arm through. And I looked up. It was like a movie, Joe. All three deer in the field went right into my soul and ran away. And I looked at Cam. I was like, that was me, huh? He was like, oh, yeah. They don’t like that stuff. I was like, you can’t. Never came back. No, never came back.

JOE ROGAN: The sound is like, they hear everything, like, 10 times louder than you do. Look at their ears. Their ears rotate and turn and do this. Those are antenna listening for predators.

JELLY ROLL: No.

JOE ROGAN: So they hear the ruffling of clothes. They’re like, what is that?

JELLY ROLL: They were like, that’s a human.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, f*ing human. And when they’re down there, that’s the main predator. Yeah, the main predator is us.

JELLY ROLL: No, it was, it was amateur hour at the Apollo, dude. At least Cam got a hook out of it. I learned a big lesson, of course, too, you know, but, bro.

JOE ROGAN: They look at you too. When a whitetail busts you, they look you like, it’s a weird look.

JELLY ROLL: No, it’s like, it’s almost like he, when I say they looked right up at me, Joe. It was like from, from feed to eye contact with me, I was like, oh, f*. You know what I’m saying? I felt like a deer in headlights. I was like, oh, shit. He got me.

JOE ROGAN: People put felt on the wrist just so that when the arrow slides, it’s not making any sound. You got to be real slow and how you draw back.

Bow Hunting vs. Rifle Hunting

JELLY ROLL: But it’s something else. It’s like rifle hunting, which I can’t rifle hunt, but we have a bunch of stands on my property, and I’ll go sit on them just to watch deer with my little boy. And you know that that thing will be, there are two football fields away from where the deer are. You’ll be sitting up there with the heater on, listening to a podcast, smoking a joint, watching a deer. Like, if I had a gun, I’d kill it. You know what I’m saying?

JOE ROGAN: Right? Right.

JELLY ROLL: So I showed up first day with Cam, and I got my little weed pen in my pocket. And as soon as we, and I seen a buck from here to a little bit past Jamie from me, I was like, oh, yeah, we can’t smoke in here or dog. I was like, this is real, dude.

JOE ROGAN: It’s a totally different thing.

JELLY ROLL: It’s a different fear too. Like, you get excited when you see one out of a blind from 100 yards, 200 yards, you know, 50 yards, 70 yards. But when you see one 20 yard, 30 yards away from you, and you’re sitting there with just a stick with a piece of metal on it, kind of. You know what I’m saying? And a string, ultimately, you got a glorified, what came right after the slingshot.

JOE ROGAN: Right?

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? And you’re like, this is me and this animal right now.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: It is the craziest feeling I’ve ever felt in my life, dude. I wrestled at SummerSlam. It felt like that. It felt like when Logan Paul was going to jump through the table, it was that feeling the whole time. Yeah, this is it. Oh, wow. That’s a big look. That was me really shaking, dude.

JOE ROGAN: That’s a big buck.

JELLY ROLL: Oh, dude, we had so much. We’re having a, I’m having the time of my life down this tiny little hole. You see what I’m going through here?

JOE ROGAN: Look at him. But I just, you have a light on your pins? Do you have a sight light?

JELLY ROLL: No, sir.

JOE ROGAN: Okay. Are you using a spot hog? What, what kind of beautiful bird Cam set it up for me.

JELLY ROLL: Cam must be a spot. Is it Wayne? Is Wayne his name at the bow rack?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Wayne. I love you, Wayne.

JOE ROGAN: Shout out to Wayne. Yeah, you got a spot hog. Oh, by the way, your.

JELLY ROLL: Your, your bow shop just dropped me off kickstand for it, though. What do y’all call it?

JOE ROGAN: Oh, beautiful Archer Country. Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Yep, yep. Thank you for that, by the way.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, please.

JELLY ROLL: In the stand, I’m having to hold it on my lap, you know what I mean? So Brigham hit him for me and was like, yo, while we’re doing Rogan, can you just drop off a kickstand for Jelly?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, those. Hoyt has it set up so that they’re retractable to the way it’s set up. It’s perfect. You just set it down. It’s perfect.

The Practice Routine

JELLY ROLL: I bought 200 arrows and I put them 100 on my back porch in a bucket. And I have, like, 30 targets in my backyard now. And I sent 100 of them on my farm’s back porch with like, 30 targets. And now I literally wake up, let my dog out, and just let them a hundred rip. First thing in the morning. Just rip a whole hundred. Takes you like 45 minutes. Good exercise.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah.

JELLY ROLL: And I only have to pull them once.

JOE ROGAN: It’s also the concentration clears your mind because it’s so hard to do to hit a target, especially at a distance. You’re, when you know your whole thing is just, everything’s got to be, like, coordinated in sync and on that release. And that arrow flies and goes right into there. Oh, I love it.

JELLY ROLL: It’s, you talk about concentration. It’s one of the only things I’ve ever done that when I’m standing there, even over a target, especially over a deer, but even over a target, and I pull that bow back. It’s like you said about the mountains. Like, nothing in the world matters right now.

JOE ROGAN: The world goes away.

JELLY ROLL: I don’t hear. I don’t even hear my inner monologue. All I see is that little green pin on that target.

Moving Meditation

JOE ROGAN: Fred Bear had a great quote about a troubled mind. Like, nothing, nothing clears a troubled mind like shooting a bow. It’s so true. It’s like there’s something about how difficult it is that it really requires everything of you. It requires all of your concentration. You can’t have, like, distracting thoughts like, oh, I forgot to pay that bill. Oh, I got to call that guy back. Oh, I got to do this. Oh, I got to do that. You can’t have anything in there because of that.

It’s like a moving meditation. Like, it forces you to be completely present in the moment. And that, that cleans the mind out.

JELLY ROLL: You’re talking about moving meditation. I was thinking about when you were saying that. Even down to the breathing, like, the importance of the.

JOE ROGAN: It’s also, you’re going to learn how to manage your nerves, right? So there’s going to, this is a process, and it’s a journey. And so along the way, you’re going to have some moments where a deer comes in or an elk comes in where you’re, you see your body shaking. Freaking know.

But then in the future, you’re going to know, okay, I know when this is coming. Now I know how to stay calm. And now I see us come. Like, nah, bitch, we ain’t getting there. We’re not going there. We’re staying right here. I call it going dead. Like, you go dead. Like, all this anticipation. And what if I miss? And what if I do this? And what if he runs? And what if he turns? Nothing. I don’t let nothing in. You don’t let nothing in, and you just, like, exist like a cat.

Like, you’re like a cat, like, staring at the thing you’re about to kill. Just locked in. There’s no negative at all. You don’t ever let those emotions creep in. You know, I asked Cam, I’m like, do you ever check your heart rate when you shoot? And he’s like, yeah, it doesn’t even move. Like, yeah, because he knows how to stay in that moment. He knows how to stay calm afterwards. It’s like, yay. Everybody’s great and everybody’s happy and, oh, my God, look at, this is incredible. It worked out. What a perfect shot.

JELLY ROLL: I can’t wait to feel that, huh?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Can’t think about that, though. Can’t think about the result. Never think about the result. Always think about the process. Always think about the process.

JELLY ROLL: I’m having fun with the process here.

JOE ROGAN: The process is amazing.

The Journey

JELLY ROLL: Cam was saying that I felt so badly to Canada. I said, Cam, you’re not mad that we sat four times and I haven’t got one yet? Especially since I f*ed it up once and twice. Had a pee today, but, but we’ve been in there four hours. I mean, I was like, Cam, that buck’s not coming.

JOE ROGAN: Especially if you’re staying hydrated.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah, I’m saying hydrate like Cam. I got to.

JOE ROGAN: But that guy has amazing patience.

JELLY ROLL: No, he said he smiled. He was like, this is what I’m here for, bubba. He said, I’m glad you’re getting the journey. And I was like, I think if I had came here and just shot one, it wouldn’t have been. I’ve sat four. I’ve really, I’m working for this deer.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah? Yeah.

The Power of Honest Self-Assessment

JELLY ROLL: I pulled on him three times this morning, Joe, and just could not. Cam was proud of me, though, because I was like, “I just don’t have the shot, Cam.” Because he whispers in my ear. He goes, “You got a shot?”

And I’ve been… I forgot who wrote it, but it’s a little book called Lying. Have you ever seen this?

JOE ROGAN: No.

JELLY ROLL: It’s like a… Jamie, it’s like a little bitty book. It’s just called Lying. But it’s like some author. You got to check it. It’s a really cool book. And it just talks about lying. And it was the book that talked about me lying to myself.

And right then, I had to fight that urge to lie. Because it wouldn’t have been a lie if I’d have said, “Yes, I got a shot.” But I didn’t have a good shot. So instead I go, “I don’t get one.”

I like Cam. Cam goes… Eddie just put his hand on my shoulder. He said, “I’m proud of you for that.” And I just let it down. You know what I mean? I was at least even in the moment of like, “I want to kill this deer, son. Would be so cool. Imagine if I went on Joe Rogan’s after killing first buck this morning.”

And I was like… but I was like, “This ain’t the shot.” You know what I mean? Like, I want the first one to be the shot. I want to be proud of it, you know? I don’t want to harm an animal.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? I don’t want an animal to suffer. I want to double lung it. I want to drop it like a movie. You know what I’m saying?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: And if I have to sit here eight more times to get that shot, no problem.

JOE ROGAN: It’ll just make it…

JELLY ROLL: I’m just getting better, Joe. I’m learning more. I’m learning how to listen for stuff. I’m seeing things now. I know when they’re looking, what the wind means. I learned what barometric pressure is and what it does to them. It’s all kind of cool stuff, dude. I’m like a little nerd. There’s… I’m like the little kid walking around asking questions all day.

The Learning Curve of Bow Hunting

JOE ROGAN: Well, there’s a really big learning curve to hunting, particularly bow hunting. And it’s really interesting. You just keep learning stuff. Like, I’ve been doing it now for… I guess I’ve been bow hunting for 12 years or 13 years, I guess. 12 years and I’m still learning. I learn all the time. I mean, I’m, you know…

It’s one of the most rewarding things that I’ve ever done, you know, and especially in terms of like getting pretty decent at it, getting proficient at it, and having a bunch of success. And success begets more success. I love it.

And then when you eat it, it’s different than any other meal you’ll ever eat. When I… when I pull an elk steak out of my freezer and I thaw it out and then I throw it on the Traeger and I throw some olive oil on it. And I like this Saskatchewan blackened Saskatchewan rub that they have is my favorite for elk.

And I get that sucker up to 120 degrees and then I bring it inside and I sear it on a cast iron frying pan. Then I eat it. Oh, man, it’s magical. I remember, I remember the whack when that arrow hit him in the lungs. That whack, that sound.

JELLY ROLL: How crazy is it hunting elk?

JOE ROGAN: Oh, crazy. They f*ing scream.

JELLY ROLL: Oh, that was scary.

JOE ROGAN: It’s magical. I hunted with Cam this September and I got this elk that was… he had… he was coming over the mountains with his cows, and we saw him. We were like, “Whoa, that’s a good one.” Like, we got to try to get to him.

So we had to go over the top of this ridge and go down into this valley and go through the woods. And as we got to where he was, another elk stole his f*ing cow. And so by the time we got to the woods, we were trying to, like, we’re following the screams because he was still screaming. They were screaming, the cows were.

So we get through the woods and then we realize, “Oh, shit, he got his cow stolen.” So his cows… we saw the last of his cows run up this hill, run up the side of this mountain. And he was going after them. He was like, slowly.

And then my guy Colton that I was with, he called, you know, he busted this little elk. The cow elk call. And you see the elk go like this. It’s like a record skips, you know, like… and then he turns and he’s like, slowly starts walking.

I was at full draw for like a minute and a half behind this tree. Just holding for a minute and a half while this dude was… he was about 25 yards, but he did not like it. He’s like, “Something’s going on here. I don’t see the cow. What the f* is happening here?”

So he went around sideways to try to get our wind. And as soon as he went around sideways, as soon as he got clear, I saw him put that pin on him. So swack, I hit him. He was dead in 15 seconds. 15 seconds. He got hit. He’s like, “What the f*?”

He turned, started going downhill, and then fell and rolled and it was over like that. And then I think at that moment, every time I eat it, every time I’m cutting into that steak, I think of that crazy moment, you know?

JELLY ROLL: God, that is a wild moment, dude.

JOE ROGAN: And it’s also, after miles and miles of trekking up these mountains, you’re at 7,700 feet above sea level and you have to hunt.

JELLY ROLL: Hunt elk. You don’t sit for them. Right. You got to kind of go out and find…

JOE ROGAN: There’s no sitting.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah, you go find him.

JOE ROGAN: You’re exhausted every day. Yeah, it’s crazy.

JELLY ROLL: That’s for Joe Rogan.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, 100%.

JELLY ROLL: That’s what I’m getting in shape.

JOE ROGAN: When… when June starts rolling around, that’s when I start really ramping up the cardio. That’s when I start ramping up the Airdyne bike and ramping up the steps. When I start doing step ups on boxes and I start doing like, body weights. September.

JELLY ROLL: Wow. Okay.

JOE ROGAN: So right around June is when I really just kick in the leg strengthening, leg conditioning, and cardio time. Because you know you’re going to have to go. They live in the mountains, man.

Which is interesting because they didn’t used to be like they were more like living plains until people start f*ing with them and then they like realize, like, the best way to get away from people is to get way up where it’s difficult to get to. So if you want to get them, you got to go where it’s difficult to get to. So you got to get in shape. Yeah, that.

You Can Do It Too

JELLY ROLL: And that’s the stuff. Like, I hope somebody’s listening to this right now going, “Man, I’ll never be able to elk hunt.” Yeah, you can.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, you can.

JELLY ROLL: I promise you.

JOE ROGAN: Can you walk then?

JELLY ROLL: You can do it. You can do it. You can start walking tomorrow and start going forward and… yeah, even then. Don’t you… you know, it’s your big goal. Put little goals in between there.

That was another big one for me, was like, I had these big goals, but I didn’t get… they were so far. I realized I’d lose sight of them sometimes. So you got to set them little… little baby goals in the middle, you know what I mean?

Those little, like, you know what? I’m going to walk a mile five days this week. No matter what the weather is, I’m going to walk a whole mile. You know, I’m going to walk to my mailbox and back, whatever your starting point is.

And then I encourage you to start making the decision. That’s hard. Hard, because me and Cam talked about this when we ran our 5K. There’s a hill. My driveway comes down a driveway comes down a hill. And you bust a right, Joe. And then you can go left into a neighborhood, the same run I run every day. Or you can go right up a hill, and it is a hill. Hill, you know?

And the first day I came out and I looked up that hill and I looked to the left, and I took two steps to the left and I stopped. And I told myself, I was like, “I’m learning about stories. We tell ourselves. The story I’ve been telling myself my whole life was take the easy way out.”

My entire life, Joe, I have always looked for the path of the easiest, like A to B, straight line. You know what I mean? And I was like, “I break that today. I turn right. F* you.” You feel it, don’t you? It’s big, right? Then big.

JOE ROGAN: It’s a big move.

Hitting the Hill

JELLY ROLL: Big moment when you’re like, “No, I’m hitting that f*ing…” You know, because I’m big fat. People hate hills, stairs. We hate all that. So I’m like… I’m like, “Hit the hill,” you know?

And I’m walking and I’m stopping and I’m walking and I’m stopping, and I’m walking and I stop. I just kept going. When I got to the top of it, there was a telephone pole up there. And I went and slapped it. I just slapped the shit out of it. Oh. And I was just… I felt so achieved.

And I came down the hill, and then I took a left, and I was going to go straight down to the stop sign and back, but if you take a left, you can go up another. So I was… in my mind, I was like, “I’m going to stop trying to hit the hill.”

But as I was walking by that other hill, I was like, “This is the new you. You hit the hill, dog. This is the new you. Today is the new you. You hit the hill.” Left. Hit the f*ing hill. Come back down.

On my way home that day, look up. See that hill? It’s right by my house. I go “F*, I’m going to hit it one more time.” You know what I mean?

And then it started becoming a thing where it’s like I started adopting that philosophy in life now, Joe, I hit the hill first. Whatever the hardest thing is, whatever scares me the most, whatever I think’s going to be the most daunting of the day, it’s on the table right now. Let me see that b first.

Making Life Easier Through Voluntary Hardship

JOE ROGAN: And it makes the rest of your life easier, too. That’s what’s really important. When you elect to make these decisions, conscious decisions, to do a difficult thing voluntarily, you elect to do that, then the rest of your life becomes way easier.

Because the most difficult thing of your day is always the most difficult thing of your day, whether you decide to do it or whether life throws it at you. And you can decide to give yourself something that’s way harder than anything life’s going to throw at you. And then the rest of life becomes easy.

JELLY ROLL: It makes you ready to deal with life.

JOE ROGAN: It’s also very important for famous people. Yes, it’s very important for famous people, because for famous, the pressures and the weirdness of fame. Most people don’t understand the psychological burden that that carries, how that hits you, and it can really f* with you.

And one of the best ways that I’ve found to keep it from fing with me is to make the hardest part of my day my choice. I do it. I put myself through. So other stuff that seems difficult for other people that don’t work out or don’t take on challenging tasks. It’s not that difficult for me. It’s easy. I’m already torturing myself every fing day.

JELLY ROLL: I feel weirdly more qualified to deal with shit when I do, though.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Like when I have a really hard run, I walk into the house that day like, “I don’t care what comes at me today.”

JOE ROGAN: Exactly.

JELLY ROLL: I am on fire. I’ll give you another quick story.

JOE ROGAN: There’s nothing harder than what you’re doing. You’re barely alive, right? You’re breathing so hard, your… your heart is pounding. Nothing in life is giving you that. Nothing in life is giving you that kind of burden. So if you can do that to yourself, it’ll make the rest of your life way easier.

When It Gets Fun

JELLY ROLL: And then it, believe it or not, it gets funner. It goes back to my first year. Walking was miserable. I won’t lie to people that are listening to this. I didn’t enjoy one of those walks. Not one. I didn’t have one time.

But when the weight started coming off and I started being able to breathe a little better. Like I wasn’t just fighting for oxygen every single step. And that moment happens, though, if you’re patient. The next thing you know, you’re running with your friends and y’all are talking about the football game and you’re firing on all cylinders.

JOE ROGAN: Today when you were on that treadmill, you were talking. We were watching the Volkanovsky, excuse me, the Pyotr Jani fight.

Finding Strength Through Daily Discipline

JELLY ROLL: We were giving commentary. It’s like, you do it and it makes—

JOE ROGAN: As you were running, like, oh, I remember when that kick landed.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah. I was like, ooh, that was loud. I’m telling you, dude. As you were running, just running. And it makes me mentally ready now because I go out and I know David talked about this a lot, Goggins, but I go out there and beat that every day.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: All them negative thoughts that deal with them on my run, in my workout, every one of those, “you can’t do it.” And you know what else I’ve learned? If I have a chance to eat bad today, it’s going to happen on a day I didn’t wake up and run. Right. If I’m going to go off my program, because the days I run, I don’t want that sh*t. I know I earned it. And mentally it makes me better.

I woke up the other day and ran my farm, and I come back and my son, I’m all excited. We’re going to the Titan game and I’m getting to connect with my son. And I go, hop on a four wheeler, ride up to the top of the hill. I’ll run up there and meet you. I’m getting a little more exercise in, and when I’m running up to the top of the hill, I look up and he stuck. He stopped somewhere going down another hill that I thought he was going to go down.

And right then I realized it’s the hill that he fell and broke his wrist on riding a four wheeler last year. And he stopped up there because he’s scared and his friend already went down. Joe, I thank God in that moment, I said, “Jesus, thank you. I’m ready for this. I’ve ran. I’m not—I feel the endorphins. Like, I am ready to parent this moment.”

Most of the time, you know, as a parent, you walk into these crazy moments and you’re like, oh, not fully ready for this moment. You know what I mean? Like, we blow them and you look back and go, oh, I wasn’t ready for that one necessarily.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

A Father’s Breakthrough Moment

JELLY ROLL: And I walk up to him. And I credit this to running. And I walk up and I go, “What’s up, buddy?” And he goes, “I think this is the hill, dad.” I go, “It is, buddy.” He goes, “I’m scared.” And I go, “Dude, I’ve been scared for 35 years. And I never admitted it, so you’re already way better than me. You’re already twice the man I am.”

I said, “Now what we got to do is know we know what we’re feeling. What are we going to do? It’s me and you, buddy. What are we going to do?” He goes, “Well, I don’t want to drive it.” I go, “What if I ride with you?” He goes, “Will you sit on the back of this?” Now he’s on a 90, you know what I’m talking about? You know, for people at home, this is a nine year old four wheeler.

And even then I start just thanking God in my head where I was like, I’m ready for this. For the first time ever, I’m not too fat to get on this thing with him. Probably going to rub a little bit, you know what I’m saying? But I can get on the back of it. And I sit down on the back of it and he says, we grab the steering wheel. I go, “No, buddy, but I’ll grab your waist. I said, you don’t need me to touch that steering wheel. You just need me with you.”

Crushes it down the hill. Nice, you know what I mean? And then you get to have the moment where you get to go, “Now what did we learn there, buddy?” He goes, “I learned that I can do it as long as you’re with me.” I said, “No, buddy, you learned that you can do it. You just need—you just thought you needed me with you. I said, but here’s the good news. Jesus is always with you, bubba. You got this like, just go, don’t be afraid of this man.”

He drove it back up the hill. So then I said, “Do me a favor, just ride up top of the hill and ride back down. I’ll be sitting here waiting for you. If you starts to go south, I’ll run and jump on you. I’ll do whatever. I’ll save you. I’ll die for you, boy. Just come down that hill.” He drove right up the top of the hill, turned around, okay, right down road the Joe.

And it’s like I was ready for it, though. I’d already did the hard stuff that day, you know what I mean? Having an emotional moment with my son was the easiest part of my day. After that I’d already ran three, four miles, you know what I mean? I’d already woke up and got myself in a headspace of like, I’m going to pour into my son today. I’m going to take him to get his favorite suite from the Titan game. I’m going to get him a Cam Ward jersey. I’d already had a thing of ways I was going to connect with him. And then God gave me a whole new opportunity.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? Like, God gave me a real opportunity. I was making ways to connect. Like, oh, we could probably do this, and this will be fun. But, like, it just naturally came. I wasn’t ready for that. At 500 pounds. One, I would have never been, like, go up there, hill. You know, 500 pounds. I’m like, you want to sit here and watch a movie? No kid wants to sit and watch a movie at 9 years old. For all parents out there that are 500 pounds, you know what I mean? I’ll answer for them.

But to be in that kind of place with them is like the joy of life. Like, I want somebody to hear this podcast, why I keep saying it this way and understand that you’re not living the life you can. And it’s so, so possible. It’s not easy, but it’s possible. And it’s worth it. It’s so worth it, Joe, you know what I mean?

Peace Comes From Struggle

JOE ROGAN: The things that are not easier are worth it. It’s important to do things that are not easy. It’s really important. It’s like if you want real peace. Peace doesn’t come from rest. Peace comes from struggle.

JELLY ROLL: Peace comes from struggle.

JOE ROGAN: It really does. You have to. Peace comes from challenge. It comes from being excited about something, doing something difficult, figuring out you could do it. Building resilience, you know, building resilience is so important. It’s so important because there’s just too many people that are afraid of resilience. They’re afraid of confrontation. They’re afraid of anything that’s difficult, anything that struggle, anything that’s going to test them, they’re scared of it. They don’t want that discomfort. But that discomfort is when you find true peace.

JELLY ROLL: There was a guy that—there’s a famous old tale that reminded me of that. Guy goes, a young man looks at a rich man, rich, health, happy man. He goes, “How did you get where you are?” And the rich, happy man looks at him and goes, “Good decisions.” Two words. Good decisions. You ever heard this story?

JOE ROGAN: No.

JELLY ROLL: He goes, “Good decisions.” And the kid goes, “Well, how did you make good decisions?” He goes, one word, “Experience.” And the kid goes, “Well, how did you get experience?” And the guy goes, two words, “Bad decisions.”

You just got to go do it, dude.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, failure. Failure is critical. Failure in the pain of failure is also very important. It sucks. And it’s hard in the moment. You don’t think you’re ever going to live past this. You’re going to live in this moment forever. And I can’t do this. I’m going to—I can’t live like this. I can’t do this. But get through it. Get through it. And now you have resilience.

Breaking Free From Shame

JELLY ROLL: And you’ll become a whole—you’ll become a better person because of it. Like, just taking—and I used to be that way. And I’d get in shame about stuff. Like, shame was a big thing for me. I’d be embarrassed, and I’d get into a spiral where I just wouldn’t deal with things. I’d be like, I’m just ashamed of that I didn’t do it right, or I’m a f* up, or I’ll never do it right, or I’ll never be able to do that. I use this kind of language. It goes back to how we talk to ourselves, right? You know, it’s like, this is in—your body believes it. You tell your body, enough, you’re never going to do nothing. Your body will start to be like, all right, we’re never going to do that. You know?

But it’s like, I realized that it was more about actually just starting to go, nah, man, I can do that. You know what I mean? Like, I can figure that out. And now I get motivated. Every time I’ve left that deer blind without one of them bucks. Every time we get in the truck, I’m all, I’m smiles. Cam goes, “How you feeling?” I was like, “Dog, I am going to get good at this.” You know what I mean?

Like, I look at it different. I don’t look at it like, oh, I suck. I look at it like, dog, yeah, I am eight hours into 10,000 of these hours, you know what I’m saying? Like, y’all be patient with me. I’m only on hour eight, you know what I’m saying? Like, but I promise, y’all, I’ll be a whole different dude.

The Beauty of Being a Beginner

JOE ROGAN: But, God, eight hours into something like that is so nice, because, you know, you have so much to learn, and if you just look at it that way, like, what a beautiful blessing it is to have so many opportunities to do things so many times that you’re going to be able to learn so much time to grow, so much time to get better. You have so much room. I mean, if you already—Cam Haynes. Boy, it’s so difficult to get better from. You’re the best.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah, for sure.

JOE ROGAN: So hard.

JELLY ROLL: 100%. All you can do is help me.

JOE ROGAN: And, you know, he’s just challenged by moments. So he just experiences a lot of challenging moments, and he rises to the occasion because he knows, because he’s got 30 plus years of experience doing it, and he knows how to do it. But for you, it’s like you’re in this beautiful place where it’s all learning. Every day is a new lesson and even mistakes like putting your hoodie on. Okay, now we know.

JELLY ROLL: Now I know. I’m going to wear the hoodie. I’ll tell you what. Tomorrow night, I’m going to wear the hoodie if it’s 80, because I don’t care. I’d rather sweat in it. And then when it gets cold, I’m ready than be not ready when it’s cold.

JOE ROGAN: And you’re going to have a bunch of those. I had one elk hunting this September. We were going after these elk that were in this thickly wooded section, and we were in this open area, and we were trying to figure out where this bull is because he was running cows through there, and you would catch glimpses of them. And so we decided to move around to this new spot.

And as we decided to move around to this new spot, we were like, you know what? We’re going to have to go up this ridge and go around this way and come at him from another direction. So as we started to do that, he changed and he ran out through the woods into the clearing. And I was stuck out in the open, just standing there, like, staring. I’m like, if I just stayed in cover, I would have got this motherf*er. But I got impatient and I tried to, like, run out and meet and, you know, it’s one of those lessons, like, okay, now it makes me better.

JELLY ROLL: Twelve years in, that makes me feel good.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, God, I’m not even close to knowing what the f* I’m doing. You know, I need a lot of lessons.

JELLY ROLL: I’m great as a pool table, twice as square. It’s bad. I’m out there so lost. It’s got to be at least entertaining for everybody to see it.

JOE ROGAN: It’s so exciting, though. And you’ll get that success. It’ll come.

JELLY ROLL: I’m having so much fun. You know, I was like, I think I’m going to get a buck this week. I believe it, but if I don’t, I got so many lessons and I’ll be back the next week. They’ll let me back to try. Yeah, you’ll find—

JOE ROGAN: You’ll find the moment. You’ll find the moment. It’s going to come. It’s going to come with persistence and just putting in the time. And I feel like the universe just gives you these opportunities. And when it’s there, you’ll have this big burst, like this breakthrough moment, like, okay, I did it. I f*ing did it.

JELLY ROLL: I did it.

JOE ROGAN: Okay, I’m going to cook this here. This deer is going to—you’ll be salting that thing and slapping it on the grill, watching it sizzle.

JELLY ROLL: Pop it, baby.

The Power of Wild Game

JOE ROGAN: Smelling it. Oh, the smell. And then when you go to cook it, you’re like, oh, my God, this is the best food I’ve ever eaten in my life. It’s the best bite of food because it’s a bite of food with an experience attached to it. It’s not just a bite of food. And it’s the best meat on planet Earth. The healthiest food you can get.

You want to talk about density? You were talking about density of nutrition. There’s nothing more dense than wild game. It’s like twice as much protein as—

JELLY ROLL: A piece of beef.

JOE ROGAN: Twice as much for the same amount of ounces. Yeah, it’s so good for you.

JELLY ROLL: Same calories, no, probably less.

JOE ROGAN: Wow, you’re eating an athlete.

JELLY ROLL: Oh, yeah, for sure.

JOE ROGAN: You’re eating like an athlete.

JELLY ROLL: You know, that’s crazy. I never thought of it that way.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, man.

JELLY ROLL: I’ve never ate a bunch of game, though. Obviously this is also new.

JOE ROGAN: Game is the best thing for you by far. There’s no better food than wild game.

JELLY ROLL: I’ve never had an elk steak. I want one.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, my goodness.

JELLY ROLL: Got to try one.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, I wish I had one right here to cook for you. I wish I had a grill.

JELLY ROLL: We’ll do one. The good news is we’ll do it the right way. We’ll cook one I kill.

JOE ROGAN: Yes.

JELLY ROLL: That’ll be the big moment.

JOE ROGAN: Yes.

JELLY ROLL: If I waited this long, I might as well go smack one.

The Spiritual Connection of Hunting

JOE ROGAN: It’ll be so exciting. And then you’re going to be fully, fully, fully, fully, fully hooked. Yeah, yeah. Once you actually do it. When I shot that mule deer that’s on that table, you know, Rinella did the same thing that Cam did for you. You know, he took me, he showed me what to do. He took me out there and completely green. I never even shot a rifle before.

I only shot a rifle, like, three times. Luckily, and I’m not saying rifle hunting is easy for people that rifle hunt and think it’s really very difficult. It’s very difficult, but it’s not as difficult as bow hunting. And which is why I was able to be successful on my first ever rifle hunt. You know, being successful on a bow hunt for mule deer? Good f*ing luck.

Bow hunting for mule deer has a very low success rate. Even with elite hunters, it’s very difficult because it’s a very cagey animal. They’re very intelligent, but super fast, too, right? We were eating this animal. We shot it, we packed it out, we started a campfire, we were cooking it. And I remember Steve said to me, “What do you think?” I said, “I’m doing this forever. Forever.”

I knew at that moment, I was like, well, I’m going to be a hunter now. That’s what I’m doing forever. Because I was on my way to being a vegetarian. I was like, I watched too many PETA videos and I’m like, oh, my God, factory farming is so awful. It’s so terrible. I didn’t understand regenerative farming and ranching. And I eat beef now. I mean, I never stopped eating beef.

But eating wild game is a different thing. It’s a different—like I said, it’s food with experience attached to it. There’s something very spiritual about it. And it’s also, it connects you to a part of mankind’s history that is intertwined in your DNA.

For people that have never experienced before, you know, the feeling that you get when you catch a fish. Even little kids, man. I remember my daughter caught her first fish when she was like six. She caught a bass and she was so excited. You get it? That is in our DNA, because that means that you’re going to live, you’re going to eat, you’re going to feed your family. That’s why that is so exciting.

To catch a fish, shooting an animal and killing it and eating it, knowing that you can eat it for months, is that times like a hundred. Shooting an animal with a bow is that times a thousand.

JELLY ROLL: Oh, it made me think about it when I was thinking about animal killing and bows, especially now, because I’m thinking about this a lot. Obviously I’m in the middle of it, but there’s this thing that’s happening there where it’s like the concept that back in the day, a man left with this stick and piece of metal or just a stick. Back then, a shaved stick and a string.

It was like, if this goes good, I will come back with enough to feed our tribe.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: This entire village of people. I will bring a deer and we will all eat together. That’s crazy. It is crazy that that was once the way it actually went.

JOE ROGAN: It was the only way. This is from here. This, who knows how old that is?

JELLY ROLL: Wow. Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: A friend of mine got that on his ranch and gave it to me.

JELLY ROLL: Oh, yeah. This is crazy.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. So some Native American, probably Comanche, because it’s here in Austin. And that guy who made that made it himself, attached it with sinew and twine and put it on a stick that he had shaved down and put feathers on it that he had got from a bird. And, you know, glue that they had made from—they made glue from all kinds of different things.

And he shot that probably into an animal and it fed his family. And then that was lost in the dirt. And then a thousand years later, somebody found it.

JELLY ROLL: It still stands.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. And it’s here. Yeah. It’s crazy.

JELLY ROLL: And that he came home like a hero.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I’m saying? Man, you’re right. That feeling of catching that fish. My daughter felt it too. When she was six, I took her bluegill fishing.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: I had a little spot in the lake where you could just drop and catch a bluegill almost every time. You know, they’re pretty little fishes. She would have a ball.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. It’s so exciting.

Fishing Stories and Family Moments

JELLY ROLL: I took my wife to fish for the first time when she came moved down from Vegas. And I thought—I wasn’t thinking, Joe. This was a user error, but I was like, oh, my friend’s got a stock catfish pond. I was like, this is great, dude. Throw it out there. She’ll get her a big old hog of a catfish.

I wasn’t thinking about how brutally hard it is to unhook catfish, compared to a bass or a bluegill, you know what I mean? And of course, I get a bass that swallows the f*ing hook. So here we fight this bass. I mean, there’s a catfish in and she’s all excited till it gets there. And it to this day was the most brutal ripping out of—Joe, she never went back. She was disgusted.

She was all in until after. Once we got—I should have just clipped it, threw it back in, but I was just determined. You know how you are when you’re stuck. Like, oh, it’s coming out. And it was just horrible.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: I was like, ah, yeah. But the good news is I think I’ve got her talked into wanting to deer hunt after I do, because Rhiannon goes—Cam’s assistant. She loves Bunny, and I think that’d be digestible for Bunny, if she went with another chick that was cool. You know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: Rhiannon’s a big time bow hunter. She’ll show her how to do it. Maybe she’ll get hooked too.

JELLY ROLL: I know she was good because she was talking about hitting one yesterday. She was like, “I had a shot on one at almost 40. I had one at 40 yards out, but I didn’t have a shot right then.” I was like, you were going to take a shot at 40 yards if you had one? That’s crazy bow hunting skill.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

The Art of Long-Distance Bow Hunting

JOE ROGAN: The ability to shoot at distance is really tricky because you got to take into account wind, you got to take into account the movement of the animal. You got to be assured that that—cause there’s a—do you see that elk that’s on the wall out front with a photo of Cam and I? That was 67 yards.

JELLY ROLL: Whoa.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, we got a video of that. So this elk was standing at 67 yards and he just stopped. He had fought off these other elk and he was tired and he just stopped. And that arrow, I’ll never forget that arrow. That arrow was right in the 10 ring. It was a perfect shot for almost 70 out. Yeah. And he ran and he just piled up. He just ran right over the top of this hill and blew. Boom. And he was done.

But that was years and years and years of every day in the backyard, all day long. I mean, I shot so many arrows. I fed my shoulder up. I fed my lower back because I’m obsessive. I will shoot for four or five hours a day. And I’m pulling an 85 pound bow like 150 times a day. It’s ridiculous.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah, it’s crazy.

JOE ROGAN: It’s like on your body, your body’s like, what the f* are you doing?

JELLY ROLL: For sure, I’m only pulling 45 pounds.

JOE ROGAN: But when you do that over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, it becomes a part of your central nervous system. It’s like your brain just gets locked in. Your eye immediately goes to that peep site. It lines it up immediately with the sight housing. You balance it all out.

JELLY ROLL: You put in the same place every time, too.

JOE ROGAN: Always. Yeah, you have to. Yeah, you have to have anchor points. I’ve got a little—I got a Bowmar nose button. Touches my nose. I feel that on my nose every time where the string touches my nose. This little thing just kind of pinches at your nose, let you know you’re in the right spot.

Weight Loss and Physical Transformation

JELLY ROLL: I’m going to go get Wayne to redo mine. He did it, but we had it where it just sat on my nose perfect. And then I lost that weight, so, I mean, more weight. I lost like 80 pounds since I got set for the bow.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, wow.

JELLY ROLL: This is the never ending problem in my life right now. Clothes are either super baggy or I got one size to everybody, so it’s tight, you know, because I’m just having to constantly chase whatever’s next. Right. I can’t wait until I’m just a normal person, I get down to a normal weight and, you know, put on a holiday weight like everybody else. And that’s the fluctuation.

JOE ROGAN: That’s wild.

JELLY ROLL: I’m close, though. I’m close.

JOE ROGAN: So close.

JELLY ROLL: I got—I’m in the 260s right now. 30 some pounds of skin on me. I’d like to lose another, probably 40 is probably my goal.

JOE ROGAN: You’re going to be under 200 pounds.

JELLY ROLL: That is wild. That’s the goal. I just want to see it once on a scale. Just as an adult male.

JOE ROGAN: See 190.

JELLY ROLL: Just see 199. Just be like, wow.

It still feels weird telling people I weigh something that starts with 200. I haven’t weighed in the 200s since I was like 12.

JOE ROGAN: Well, you know, as you put on muscle, you might stay in the 200s, but it’ll be a different 200.

JELLY ROLL: Dude, I am. I’m packing, man. My—I think my shoulders are—I’m proud of them. I am. Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: You look different, man. In every way. In every way.

JELLY ROLL: No, it’s like my posture is better. I sit better.

JOE ROGAN: You’re not burdened by a—you’re rucksacking 300 pounds everywhere you went all the time. That’s crazy. Your legs must be so powerful. I say that to Ralphie May. Ralphie May, unfortunately never lost the weight and did wind up dying young. But I say to Ralphie, I’m like, “Ralphie, if you ever lost weight, you’d get kicked through a f*ing building with those legs.” His legs were carrying around 500 pounds everywhere he went.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah. And everywhere. He’d stand straight up and do a whole hour.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Pacing the stage and killing it.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? It’s crazy.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

The Weight of Shame and Breaking Free

JELLY ROLL: He was one of the best dudes.

JOE ROGAN: He was a fun dude, too.

JELLY ROLL: Was he fun outside?

JOE ROGAN: Oh, yeah. He’s a sweetheart of a guy. He was a great cook, too. And unfortunately, after a while, he had done it with surgery, and it didn’t work. Like a lot of people that have that addiction, he couldn’t stop, and he thought surgery was the answer.

So he got his stomach done, and then he ate through it, and then he had to get it redone. He blew it out. And so it got to a point where, when they cut your stomach down, they shrink your stomach. The gastrointestinal bypass, he got to a point where he couldn’t digest meat, so he would barbecue for us.

Ralphie was a really good cook, so he’d make ribs. They were sensational, but he would eat them. He had to be eating vegetables.

JELLY ROLL: Wow.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, because his body wasn’t. It wouldn’t process the meat. Right.

JELLY ROLL: And that was after the bypass?

JOE ROGAN: I think after the second bypass.

JELLY ROLL: See, that’s, and once again, it’s my heart hurts. Not that anybody could have made a difference maybe. But, man, I just wish.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. I mean, maybe. Maybe if he knew you and you guys did it together, I could have.

JELLY ROLL: Just sat down and been like, bro, I know. That’s why me and you doing this pod so important to me was I know there’s going to be people that are going to see clips of this that are 300, 400, 500 pounds, and I want them to…

JOE ROGAN: You can do it without a doubt.

Food Is Where the Real Battle Happens

JELLY ROLL: You really can. It’s actually worth it. It’s small steps, telling yourself the truth, doing what you say you’re going to do, meaning it, keeping your word. But most importantly, food, food, food, food, food.

Dude, I just now started showing the runs and stuff because I think people appreciate seeing the work. But it’s like, what was important, really. The weight’s not lost in that. That running. The running’s what makes me feel good. It’s fighting the demon, right?

The weight’s lost whenever I sit down at the dinner table and I eat like a normal human. I don’t eat seven plates and six desserts. That’s where it’s at. Anytime I used to see guys like Ralphie and I would think it watching, I’d be like, man, when you get to that size, there’s a mental component. There’s something happening there.

There’s some trauma attached to it, or there’s a story that you’re living in in your mind that’s just, your body’s just reacting to a pattern it’s always had that you haven’t been able to get it out. There’s something you’ve got to really go in and roll the sleeves up and kind of find.

I did every kind of, thinking back to this therapist, did the coolest thing, Joe. She looked at me and said, “When do you first remember being big?” I talked to my sister Shelby about this the other day. And I said, and she said what I said, which made me cry because I never talked to nobody in my family about this.

And I go, I think the first time I realized I was big was I was going to get school clothes for elementary school. And then back then, they had a section in the Dillards called Husky. You remember them? You’re old enough to remember they had a Husky section. That’s crazy.

And I just remember not knowing what it meant, but just knowing it was different and knowing that I felt different. I felt like I felt ashamed even at that age a little bit, being in this section. I didn’t understand why.

JOE ROGAN: Well, kids are so brutal, too.

JELLY ROLL: So brutal. And then I talked to my sister the other day, and I go, “Shelby, man, do you remember the first time that you thought I was an overweight kid?” And she goes, “Oh, yeah, I’ll never forget it, dude. We took you to some store and they had a Husky section, and you couldn’t fit the jeans. You had to shop in the Husky session.”

And she said, “Dude, it tore you apart.” And I was like, wow, okay. So I lived in that shame forever, too.

JOE ROGAN: Forever.

JELLY ROLL: Forever. Just that constant shame. But I did that work in therapy. That’s why I said earlier, sometimes when I’m in the pantry, Mary B. would be like, “Who’s, what version of you is in the pantry? Is it the kid you or is it the adult you that’s not answering an email?”

Because sometimes this is how deep addiction runs. Sometimes that relapse will be caused by literally an unresponded email that you just let sit there and torture you, but you don’t notice it because it’s just nagging at you. Just that, why don’t you just tell that guy that you’re not interested? Why don’t you just tell, why are you avoiding that? Why are you avoiding that? Why? You avoid every, this is your personality trait.

There’s thousands of things you need to be saying to people. You start eating what you’re not saying.

JOE ROGAN: So distract yourself.

Learning to Communicate in Real Time

JELLY ROLL: Distract yourself even. Whenever I first got through this, I had to sit my wife down. Bunny, who is, I talked about a lot on this podcast. She is my anchor, Joe. She’s the best thing. I think I’ve said this every time I’ve been on your podcast. The single best thing that ever happened to me was marrying the right f*ing woman. For sure.

And Bunny, I sit down with Bunny, and I’m, what was we talking about? I’m sorry I got so excited about my wife.

JOE ROGAN: Well, you’re talking about being husky. Shame, why you don’t answer emails. Distracting yourself distracted.

JELLY ROLL: It’s like you’re just constant. The food is a way of not having to deal with or even say. So I sit Bunny down. I go, “Baby, I’m probably going to start, give me some grace.” I sit my whole house down and go, “I’m going to try to do an effort to communicate how I feel in real time. And I might be abrasive at first because this is a new concept.”

I normally have to go chew on things for a few hours to make sure I don’t misrepresent my thoughts. But sometimes in those few hours, I’ll find myself in the pantry to distract yourself. Yeah.

So I was like, if y’all just give me some grace. And what I need y’all to do is just be, and be a mirror for me and just go, “Hey, I got you. But think about the way you said that. Just put it back. Just make me see it.” Just mirror. Make me mirror it.

And they were so patient with me. Bunny, Bunny’s a gangster, though. She’d be the first one to be like, “Oh, there goes little, that little snippy there, aren’t we? Little ahole, huh?” I’d be like, she’d be like, “We probably,” she’s like, “I got it. Probably could have said it different. Love.” Y’all be like, fair.

But it was just me learning how to communicate my thoughts. And now it’s like, but it was so many of these little trigger things that I found that would be what would send me back into, I keep saying the pantry. The pantry is the gas station. Anywhere I can, closety.

JOE ROGAN: Right?

JELLY ROLL: Right. I just give it a place. It’s like a, Cam was telling me about the pain cave idea the other day. It’s like, to me, that’s what the pantry’s always been, not the pan cave, but the idea of it’s a, it represents a lot.

But when I’m in the pantry now, I know why. I can literally once again, reset, reconnect, re-engage. In any situation, if I’m at a party now and I think about eating or I think about drinking, I can go outside. I can hit a joint twice. I can reconnect with myself.

What do you think about drinking for in there? What do you need to prove? Who are you embarrassed that you’re not being cool enough around right now? You think it’ll make you a little more loose? What?

JOE ROGAN: Get.

JELLY ROLL: Be real with yourself, Jason. What’s wrong here?

JOE ROGAN: Right, right.

JELLY ROLL: And then you get it. You’re like, yeah, f*, I’m being weird, dude. I don’t need to go in there and drink. I’m cool.

JOE ROGAN: Becoming a different person.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. Better version of who you really are.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah.

Doing It Publicly to Help Others

JOE ROGAN: It’s a beautiful thing because you’re not just doing it for you. You’re doing it publicly. And you doing it publicly is going to change the lives of countless people. There’s probably a million people right now now that are listening to this, that are changing some aspect of their life because of what you’re saying.

JELLY ROLL: That’s why I didn’t hide into it, Joe. I seen too many other celebrities go get, go get, go in the dark and lose a bunch of weight and try to come out with a big reveal. And it always just felt superficial and it just didn’t feel right. I was like, yo, man, we should just post about this, every workout, every day. It’s like.

JOE ROGAN: It’s also good because it makes you accountable. Makes you accountable because you’re putting it out there to the world. As long as you’re not reading the comments.

JELLY ROLL: No, no, no. F* that comment. I don’t even post it. Somebody else posted. It’s ghosted.

JOE ROGAN: That’s better. That’s better. Because as long as you’re not dwelling on other people’s opinions and thoughts, and because a lot of those people, one of the things that they do when they’re saying negative things is they’re avoiding introspection, they’re avoiding their own personal criticism of themselves.

So they’re doing that by putting that on you. So by putting negative thoughts on you and negative comments on you, what they’re really showing is that they’re damaged and that they’re avoiding that self analysis that leads to you having to make changes for yourself.

So instead they’re just shitting on other people. There’s a lot of people. That’s an addiction. That’s a giant addiction that people have, not just to being on social media, but to talking on. So commenting on social media and being out, just being negative.

JELLY ROLL: Well, my favorite quote is, “The booze mean nothing to me. I’ve seen what makes them cheer.”

You can’t, your booze mean nothing to me. I seen what you cheer at. It’s like, God, dude, you think I care about them booze?

It also reminds me of the story of the donkey. The dude, the father and the donkey. I don’t know if you ever heard this story, but the sons, the father’s walking with the son and the son’s riding a donkey. They’re going through this little village and somebody goes, “Won’t you look at that? Look at that old man. Look, look at that. That poor boy’s making that old man walk.”

So the man thinks, oh, I don’t want him thinking bad of my grandson. So he tells the grandson, “Hey, in the next town, right before we go, I’m going to hop on the donkey and you walk.” So he hops on the donkey and they start walking and somebody goes, “Can you believe that old man’s making that little boy walk by himself?”

So he stops, he says, f* it, I’ll just buy the kids donkey. So he buys the kid a donkey. They’re going through the next city and they’re both on their donkeys. And somebody goes, “Well, look at them. Two people just beating the death, beating to death. Them poor old donkeys. Them old donkeys just can’t do nothing.”

He said, the next time you could tell this the grandson, he goes, f* it, we’ll just walk beside the donkeys. So they’re walking beside the donkey and somebody screams, “Don’t you look at them perfectly too good donkeys. They’re not using. Those donkeys should be getting put to work.”

And the moral is, he couldn’t do anything to make anybody happy. It didn’t matter what he did.

JOE ROGAN: Never make everybody happy, because everybody’s not happy. Yeah, that’s the thing. It’s like, you can make happy people happy, but you can’t. What percentage of people are legitimately happy? It’s hard to get happy. It’s difficult.

Finding Happiness Through Being Useful

JELLY ROLL: You know what else changed for me was looking at happy different. I looked—we have—my wife has that quote in the house that says, “We no longer search for happiness. We search to be useful.” Useful. It’s like, the moment I quit looking for my happiness, now I just look to be a tool.

Like, I walk in every situation with my hands open. Like, God, what you got for me here?

JOE ROGAN: Right?

JELLY ROLL: How can I bring value to this? What can I do? Can I motivate? Like, where can I be a little piece of you in this moment? You know what I mean? And that changed everything. Now I’m always by default. I’m always happy because I’m being useful.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? Like, there’s nothing more fulfilling than being useful. Yeah, but I wasn’t. I quit chasing happiness. I just started chasing being useful.

JOE ROGAN: That’s beautiful. Yeah, that’s beautiful. It’s an amazing story, man. And you’re in the middle of it. You’re not done.

The Transformation Ahead

JELLY ROLL: Well, we’ve almost lost the weight. The transformation will be next. And the transformation, Joe, that will be something to watch. The weight loss, that’s been cool to watch, but the transformation, Bubba. I’m coming, dude.

JOE ROGAN: And what do you mean by the transformation, dude?

JELLY ROLL: It’s like, I don’t—I was—I’m going to—like, I see myself. I’ve never been able to see myself like this, but, like, I’m going to be, like, in top shape, Joe, you know what I mean?

Like, I was watching you with them kettlebells today, and while I’m running, I was thinking to myself, the next time I do this podcast, if Joe has me back, God willing, I’ll f*ing—I’m going to do that workout with him, and I’m going to blow his mind. I’m going to make him—in that action. Bronx is my friend. So I say this out of love. I’m going to finish that workout. You’re going to shake my—better in action, you know what I’m saying?

Like, it’s like—you know what I mean? Like, I was watching it. Like, I’m f*ing coming for that. You know what I mean? Like, that’s the kind of shape I want to be in. Like, man stuff. I didn’t feel like a man. Dude, at 500 pounds, I couldn’t walk a mile.

My video guy, Andy, you’ve met him a few times. Tall ball guy. That’s real fun. He said something to me when I was losing his weight that broke my heart because he’s such a good kid. When I finally got down to like 2, 300, he looked at me and said, “Dude, you’re like, I just need you under 250.” And I was like, “What for?”

And he was like, “Because then if anything ever goes wrong, I know I can throw 250 pounds over my shoulder and I can fire him and carry you out of somewhere.” And I was like, what a sweet soul that you have secretly been looking at me all these years. Like, what if something happens to the jelly and I can’t get them up right? You know what I mean?

Like, what a just genuine swell—like, I didn’t realize how much my weight was affecting everybody.

The Reality of Unsustainable Weight

JOE ROGAN: Well, people who love you know that this is not sustainable. And if they love you and they love being around you, they go, how much longer is he going to be here?

JELLY ROLL: Right?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. And when you’re 40 years old and you’re 500 pounds, it’s like the answer is not long. Your body can’t do, you know? And everybody’s different. Some people don’t even make it to 40.

JELLY ROLL: No. I could feel it happening. Like I was—I was scared of the way I would sleep in certain positions, right? Like I would have nightmares that I was going to die, stop breathing. If I rolled the other way, I’d suffocate myself. You know what I mean? It was just, you know, there—if I’ve rolled over one time on my stomach and I was so fat that the way I rolled over, I trapped my left arm under me and my right arm almost wasn’t strong enough to get me up enough to let the left arm loose. Oh, my God.

I’m panicking. Like you’re suffocating. Like, I’m going to die right here because I just physically don’t have enough strength in one my of arm to get me from—you know, you roll over like this to get me up off of my other arm. I can tell you right now. I can do 20 push ups, though.

JOE ROGAN: That’s amazing.

JELLY ROLL: I know it don’t sound like a lot to the listener, but from where I’m coming from, big deal, you know what I’m saying? I’m in better shape than Bert Kreischer for sure. You know what I’m saying? I love you, Bernie boy.

The 5K Challenge

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. You’ve done what he wants to do that he never can do.

JELLY ROLL: I will say this to him. And Tom, boy, they better bring their A game to the 5K this year. Don’t look up and I—I look like Tanner or Truett Haynes running with jeans on.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, he’s—he’s interesting because he’s got it in him. He can lose weight. Like when Tom and him first had that weight loss challenge, Tom went with it and never went back.

JELLY ROLL: Tom looks great.

JOE ROGAN: He looks f*ing amazing. He’s thinner than he’s ever been before. He’s like 180 now.

JELLY ROLL: Brigham said he’s getting in shape.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, man. He works out hard.

JELLY ROLL: I secretly want to beat him in the 5K, but it’s a big—it’s a big dude. I’m on your way, Tommy Bun.

JOE ROGAN: When I met Tommy, Tommy was, like, real big, and he was eating bad, and, you know, and him and Bert both decided to have this weight loss challenge, so we had this podcast together. They lost all the weight, you know, and Bert got pretty thin, too, man. They both lost a lot of weight.

You know, they did it over the whole month of October, and then when they came in, they all weighed each other on the scale, and Tom won, and so Bert had to shave his beard, and they did it, you know, live on the air. It was fun. We had a good time, though.

But it was—it was this moment where Tom realized, okay, I don’t ever want to be fat again. And he never was fat again. He just—he gained a little bit of weight and lost it again, but he never got fat again. And now he looks f*ing—he looks tremendous. I mean, you go back and watch his earlier comedy special, Marshalls was this big old moon face, and then look at him now. You would never even imagine that guy was ever fat.

JELLY ROLL: No, for sure. It’s back when he had the moon face, the black button down, and, yep, he was balding up top. He wouldn’t commit.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, no.

JELLY ROLL: Totally different time.

JOE ROGAN: He’s a different human. Different human now. And Bert goes back and forth. Bird will lose a bunch of weight and then get big as again.

JELLY ROLL: That yo, yo.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, with Bird, it’s booze, man.

JELLY ROLL: Booze. It’s all booze for birthday.

JOE ROGAN: It’s food, too.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah.

JOE ROGAN: I mean, the will go to McDonald’s and order, like, 30 Big Macs. Yeah, he’s a animal.

Alcohol and Weight Loss

JELLY ROLL: Well, you know how the left hand will wash the right hand in those situations? You put a little alcohol in you. You’re not thinking, “You know what? I think a Caesar salad with a salmon is pretty good tonight.” You’re like, “Somebody take me to In and Out, baby.”

Yeah, I relate. I used my—my chef had a note one night. We looked through all my weight loss before this pod and he had a note where I went drinking heavy one night and I was probably 550 pounds. And he was just like—even in his note, he was like, “Not sustainable. He can never lose the weight drinking this way.” You know what I mean?

Like, it was just—Ian Largas was just that he sat me down. I was like, “Bubba, I don’t care what I feed you. I can’t out work. You get drunk and you eat 3,000 calories of s* after you drink 3,000 calories of tequila.”

JOE ROGAN: Right, Right.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? I was like, I got to quit drinking. Just a stone cold thing I had to come with.

JOE ROGAN: It’s terrible for you. And when you see Burt with that enormous belly, that’s all just alcohol and inflammation. It’s like so bad for you. And Bert’s 50 now, you know, it’s like.

JELLY ROLL: And we got the same doctor.

JOE ROGAN: God.

JELLY ROLL: No, but.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, but Bert don’t listen.

JELLY ROLL: No, not Bert don’t listen.

JOE ROGAN: But he’s also. He’s.

JELLY ROLL: He’s also an athlete though. The problem with Bert is that that dude, this is what I love about Bert that makes Bert so special. Is that Bert, you remember when he ran a half marathon or marathon or something without training?

JOE ROGAN: Like they run a whole marathon without any training at all.

JELLY ROLL: That’s part.

JOE ROGAN: And he was fat. No, that he ran 26 miles?

JELLY ROLL: Yeah. This is just like Burt at who he is. So. Yeah, it’s that really hard thing to tell a guy. It’s like, “Yo, be careful, Bubba.” But it’s also like he’d go bust a 10K out today if you made him just out of spite, you know what I’m saying?

JOE ROGAN: Like, no, he’s—he’s got extraordinary genetics that he abuses.

JELLY ROLL: Vicky Mantle, Jean. Dude, it’s real, man. It’s f*ing real, dog.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, no, it is real. It is real. You know, but he’s—he’s playing a game that you can never win. You’ll never win that game. Eventually one day your heart will go, check, please. And that’s it. And hopefully he catches it before that. And that’s what everybody who loves him wants. It’s just he’s also got this mindset that his whole success is connected to him being this party animal.

Bert’s True Success

JELLY ROLL: It’s not though. It’s connected to you being Burt. It’s connected to you being one of the most genuine, sweet, funny show up for you dudes I’ve ever met in my life, like six pack or 400 pounds. Dude, your heart is the size of a horse. You know what I mean?

Like, Bert Kreischer is the new friends. That’s one of the ones I pray for. Burt Kreischer, Cam Haynes, I prayed for new kins. He sent me a bunch of really cool ones, a bunch of wild ones. Joe Rogan, Tony Hitchcliffe, a bunch of f* ups. But they were good dudes, you know what I’m saying?

Like, real, real slightly outside of normal people, but are great guys, you know, Bert Kreischer’s a great—his friendship’s done a lot for me. I—I hope me showing up. He hasn’t really. He’s seen me whenever, at wrestling, but I think when I show up to this 5K and I do it in 30 minutes, I hope that’s the moment. Bert’s like, “All right, baby, I’m with you, Jelly.” You know what I’m saying?

JOE ROGAN: He’s just got to realize that his success will always be there. He doesn’t have to be drunk to have that success. He does sober October sometimes. And one time recently he did it and he called me up and he’s like, “I just haven’t been drinking. I feel so much better and I really think I’m done.”

I go, “You should be done, man. Need it. You don’t need it.” He’s like, “You’re right, I think I’m done.” And then right back to it, you know, it’s—it’s hard, but in those moments of clarity, he realizes maybe he’ll hear this and he’s funny. That’ll be it.

JELLY ROLL: He’s—I think he’s funny either way.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, he’ll be funny either way. Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: I’ve woke up with, he’s hilarious.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, he’ll probably be more funny.

JELLY ROLL: Bird at breakfast, to me is just funny as bird at night, you know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. It’s in healthier, if you like. I’ve been very fortunate in life. One of the most fortunate things, though, is the group of people that I’ve been connected to. It’s very like, we were talking about that. It’s very important. It’s very important. And Bert is connected to a lot of really good people. And hopefully that’ll lead him on a similar—I mean, everybody has their own timeline, everybody has their own way of doing it.

JELLY ROLL: Everybody has to have their own moment too. You know, I had to have mine I just—my thing for Bert or anybody out there is that if you’re—just don’t let it get there if you can.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

The Power of Asking for Help

JELLY ROLL: I just pray, man. I don’t think I’m making this up when I say I think I was six to 12 months away from missing it, especially traveling. You know, I travel 280 days a year.

JOE ROGAN: Right.

JELLY ROLL: At 500 something pounds. Yeah. 200 something flights a year. 250 flights a year. I just couldn’t. I wasn’t going to be able to do it. I knew it. You know what I mean?

And lucky, once again, I had a wife that was just super supportive. She was supportive through all the phases, though, but she was just like, “Yo, this is time.” And she went out of her way the first three months of the diet. I probably left this part out because I’m embarrassed about it, but I was cheating it.

The first three months of the diet, I had to sit down with her and go, “Look, I need you to hide the food. I will find it. You know what I’m saying? I need you to hide the food.”

So her and my daughter Bailey found all these cool places. I still don’t know where they were. I never found it. You know what I mean? But they hid everything for me. There were nights I’d walk in that pantry and it would be like a banana. You know what I’m saying? I’d be like, the entire pantry was gone. I’d be like, fair. You know what I mean?

It was cool. But once again, it goes back to the fox, the mole, and the horse. I never asked for help before. I never would get out of my own ego. I’d just say everything I was going to do and then not do it, and then get mad when they asked, when they tried to, encouragingly.

JOE ROGAN: But maybe even more importantly, you were helping yourself. It wasn’t just you were asking for help. You weren’t asking for help while you weren’t doing anything. You were asking for help while you were helping yourself. And they were like, “Okay, I think he’s really doing this.”

JELLY ROLL: That’s it.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah. There’s really a change going on.

JELLY ROLL: And goes back to that rain walk.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Whenever they, you know, you don’t have to go. And then when I went, they cleared it.

JOE ROGAN: It’s a great moment that it did happen in the rain, you know, because it makes it even more significant. It makes it more meaningful.

JELLY ROLL: It’s so real.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

Finding God in the Hills

JELLY ROLL: I keep mentioning God because my faith in him grows so much stronger every day. But I truly believe that that was a God thing. You know what I mean? That almost certainly you walk out and be like, you know what? Even the hill, dude, I’ve lived on hills my whole life and never walked up one. I’m from Tennessee. They’re nothing but hills. I go downhill. That’s what I do.

It’s a fat person trait, you know what I’m saying? We look cooler, move faster, you know, and immediately just like, “Nah, man, we’re hitting hills, dude.” Every time I can hit a hill, I’m now looking for hills in life, you know what I mean? I’m looking for, how can I make this run a little harder?

When Cam tells me we’re at mile five, he’s like, “I’m proud of you. You did your PR.” I was like, “We better do six point two then, baby. It ain’t a 10K. We don’t do another mile point two.” You know what I mean? Immediately I was like, we got to go.

Yeah, it’s just been, it’s the effort, but helping the self knowing you want to change and then not being afraid to just go, not being ashamed to just go to your wife, because that’s a little embarrassing, and be like, “Hey, can you just hide the dark chocolate?”

They’re who dark chocolate bars. Bunny’s extremely healthy, you know what I mean? Has always been them who dark chocolate bars are so good, but the problem is I don’t know how to eat one. They’re only 380 calories, but if there’s five of them in there, I will eat all five for sure. You know what I’m saying?

So some nights you leave me a little half a bar out or something, you know what I mean? Rations until I could control it, until I knew that, and then now my pantry is back full.

The Good Addiction

JOE ROGAN: Well, now you’re addicted to the success of what you’ve already accomplished, which is a good addiction. It’s a good addiction. Being addicted to being healthy is the best addiction you could find. Because I don’t think you’re going to get out of the addiction mindset.

I think what addiction is, I think there’s a reason why it exists in the human mind. And I think it exists because it’s the same thing as obsession. And obsession allows you to be a successful hunter. It’s like hunter’s persistence. If you don’t have that obsessive drive, you won’t keep going until you’re succeeding.

And if you do have that, you’ll feed your family. If you don’t have that, everybody dies. I think that’s programmed into the human psyche. It’s programmed into human mind, but it can be hijacked by gambling. It could be hijacked by pornography. It could be hijacked by video games. It could be hijacked by a host of different things. Drugs, alcohol, anything, food. Fill in the blank.

I think that that is where it happens. You get addicted to all kinds of things that are negative, or you can get addicted to positive things.

JELLY ROLL: Meaningful conversations.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Exercise. Sure. I’m addicted to meaningful conversations.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: I used to be addicted to small talk.

JOE ROGAN: It’s hard to find them, you know.

JELLY ROLL: It’s hard to find stuff like this, meaningful, rich. I’m searching for rich conversations, even in my relationships with my wife, in my health. Our conversations are getting deeper.

JOE ROGAN: Yes.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? I never thought I could know this woman I love so much better, but I’m getting to know her better. We’re getting deeper in the foxhole together. We’re getting deeper in the shadows of each other’s credits. It’s like, I’m looking for that. I’m looking to pour into people, man. It’s just, dude.

The Phone Trap

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, it’s, that’s another thing about phones that makes it very difficult, you know, for people to have meaningful conversations because everybody’s so attached their goddamn devices. Even while you’re talking to them, they’re checking this and checking that, and you feel you’re going, “Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s real. Oh, yeah.” And they’re just scrolling and half paying attention to you.

JELLY ROLL: It’s a lot.

JOE ROGAN: It’s a lot. It’s hard. It’s one of the things that I’ve said about this podcast is, one of the most unexpected things about it is this education that I’ve got in talking to people. Not just listening to their stories and listening to whatever their expertise is, but it’s also just the learning how to talk to people.

Because you’re sitting here for three hours or whatever it is with no distractions and no interruptions. And because of that, you learn this sort of ebb and flow of human conversation. So for me, it’s so hard to have a bad conversation when I’m out with people that are bad at having conversations. To me, it’s f*ing painful. It’s like, “Oh, God.”

Yeah. It’s, I, it drives me crazy. It’s so when watching people talk over people, watching people that aren’t listening, they’re just waiting for their time to talk.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah, it’s such a connection, man. And a lot of those people that are missing that is, goes into these, the byproducts of lack of connection are addiction, isolation, loneliness. These are the side effects of not connecting with people.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: You know what I mean? And that phone has tricked us into thinking that we’re connecting with thousands of people. Right. And we’re actually not connecting with anybody.

JOE ROGAN: Not connecting with a single person.

JELLY ROLL: We’re being more lonely and more comparative. It’s trap.

JOE ROGAN: It’s a real trap because you’re getting input. There’s some input, there’s some words that come from a person, I guess. And so, but there’s no human, we’re designed to talk to each other this way. The spiritual fulfillment, the psychological fulfillment that comes from talking to a human being and making a genuine connection and understanding more about that person.

And then by also doing that, you understand more about yourself. When someone reveals something to you that’s very meaningful and very intimate, you go, “Oh wow, what is it about? Why does that, maybe I could be better at that. Maybe I could do this or maybe I can, maybe I’m looking at myself the wrong way or looking at people the wrong way,” you know, and just this slow learning process of how to interact with people better.

And it’s, that’s all kids today that are on their phone all day long. They’re psychologically stunted. We’re stunting their social growth and their development of just, most people don’t, most kids today barely know how to.

Long Form Conversations

JELLY ROLL: Communicate with each other, especially even long form like this. It’s the ability to really get, you don’t really know how somebody feels about something until you really get into a conversation, like a real conversation. These kids aren’t having those conversations with each other. It’s all in microbial clips and micro spots.

And me and my daughter talk about this a lot because lucky for, I was blessed that she’s a conversationalist. She’s kind of, she’s like me. She will have a meaningful conversation. So I’m, but I look at my nine year old who’s a little younger than her, obviously she’s 17. My daughter goes to college next year.

And my nine year old’s a little different though. He doesn’t, he communicates good, but he’s still in that, you know, video game world. It’s a different thing where basically Haley still really appreciates us sit around. I don’t know, man. I grew up in a household where we, I told you this story. My mom would sit at the kitchen table and tell us stories.

Me and you were talking right now for hours. We had a JRE every night. You know what I’m saying? You know, she’d smoke cigarettes and tell stories, and it was just super charming. And, you know, it’s, so my daughter grew up a lot like that, and I’m really proud of that, you know, that she grew up sitting in a room and having those kind of conversations, real long form, because that’s how, you know, how you really feel about it.

It’s what therapy did for me too, was whenever I quit doing things at a surface level, when it started going, “Yeah, that’s cool. But really, when was the first time you remember being fat?”

JOE ROGAN: I think people have a hunger for it. Which is why this emergence of long form conversations into the zeitgeist has been surprising to a lot of people. Because, you know, when I first started doing this podcast, one of the funny things that Ari Shafir always said to me, that I’ll never let him live it down. Because he was always like, “You got to.”

JELLY ROLL: Edit your show. I go, why?

JOE ROGAN: Because nobody wants to listen to three hours. I go, “Then don’t listen. I don’t care.” I go, “It’s, I’m doing it for no money anyway.” Back then, it was, it was costing me money. I was like, “I’m just doing it for fun, man. I don’t care. I put it out there. They don’t want to listen to the whole thing. They don’t have to listen to whole thing. There’s another one coming out in a couple days. Listen to that one. Listen to five minutes. I don’t give a f*.” And he was like, “You should edit it.”

JELLY ROLL: It’s going to f* up your show.

The Power of Real Conversation

JOE ROGAN: And I’m like, all right, whatever. And then now I’m like, remember when you told me that? Ha ha. Because I don’t think that people realize how many people are starving for real conversation. Just, you know, this is one of the reasons why, like, when that Kamala Harris thing went down, where I had Trump on the podcast and Kamala Harris kept resisting coming on the podcast, they wanted to do it for like, 45 minutes. They wanted to do it in a conference room with a bunch of aids around. They wanted to do it in D.C.

I was like, no, no, it has to be here, and it has to be three hours. Like, she’s got to sit down. Like, because it takes a while to get inside someone’s head. You got. You could bullshit me for 40 minutes. For 40 minutes, you could have a bunch of canned speeches and a bunch of sh*t you prepared and a bunch of, like, bullshit answers.

But I’ll ask you, like, what you like to cook? Yeah. I’ll ask you, like, do you exercise? I’ll ask you, what’s your favorite book? I’ll ask you, like, all kinds of different things. And then we’ll start talking. We’ll start talking about, like, did you ever think you were going to be this person? Like, what? Well, you know what. What led you here? Like, what? And give me some real sht. Give me some real sht.

JELLY ROLL: Well, you can’t. This is why I’ve always loved your pod, is that it’s where I go find out who people are.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Because it’s so easy and I’m in the media, right. To go sit down for 20 minutes.

JOE ROGAN: And, like, smile and dance.

JELLY ROLL: Just get it out of the way. You know what I mean? But, like, exactly. But it’s like, you give me three hours with somebody, they got to show me who they are.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Somebody. Joe’s going to find out who this person is. You know what I mean? Like, he’s going to. It’s like. And that’s back to, like. Because we don’t know who we are until we start having real conversations. Goes back to. Back to what me and you started with this. That we don’t know who we. We are until you started having real. I don’t know how it started. Whether it was in the green room with some of your comic friends. You were like, dude, we have the greatest conversations in here. We should do this. You know what I mean?

Like, these are funny. I don’t know. But something happened where you recognize, like, this is rare that people have conversations this funny, this good, but also this cathartic. Like, there’s moments we’ve laughed, we’ve cried. Like, it’s every podcast of yours, you know what I mean? Where. Because you can’t spend three hours with somebody and not see the full dynamic human.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: And I think.

JOE ROGAN: I think there’s a hunger that people have for finding out that other people have similar thoughts to them and maybe not even. Maybe different thoughts in similar situations and that someone has had a better way of approaching something. And it’s educational to your soul. There’s something about it about, like, we all want to pretend that we exist in a vacuum, and everybody wants to pretend they’re a loner. And I’d rather be alone. Like, sure, shut up. No, you wouldn’t.

You’d only rather be alone if the people around you suck. If the people around me suck, yeah, I’d rather be alone. But I have great friends. I like being around my friends. It’s like, it’s not shallow to want to be around a bunch of awesome people. But there’s this thought that, like, you know that.

We exist.

On our own and you don’t. We’re a collective. Like, the human species itself is a hive. And it’s one of the things we’re learning about the negative impacts of that hive being connected to social media, because you’re not really connecting with people, but we’re also experiencing this thing that’s similar to a hive.

And so there’s a writer, Avi Levinovits, who talks about this. And the way the screams that described it, rather, is that it’s like processed food. You’re getting processed information, and instead of real information, like on social media, you’re getting this processed thing that’s boiled down with no nutrients in it, but you keep consuming it because you’re so hungry, because you’re not getting the real thing. You’re just stuffing your face with. Stuffing your mind with process information.

I think that’s an apt way to put it, because that’s really what’s going on. It’s like, we all want real connection. We’re just worried. We’re worried that someone’s going to reject us. We’re worried that someone’s going to be rude to us. We’re worried that someone’s judging us, that someone’s going to think they’re better than us, or they’re going to think we lack or whatever it is.

There’s this, like, there’s a thing that we all hunger for. And I think for a lot of people, what they get, if they don’t have it near them, if they haven’t done what you’ve done and found a great group of friends, they can get it through podcasts, they can get it through people talking and communicating and being real and being interested and being curious and learning and just being cool to each other. And it’s heartwarming. It’s like it fills something in you that we’re missing because we’re being poisoned by these f*ing devices.

Social Media Snippets vs. Real Connection

JELLY ROLL: And we’re only seeing these little snippets of people, like, back to the Conversation. Like, we see comments x amount like a paragraph, and then we. People building entire thoughts around a paragraph. And you don’t even know what that dude’s thought was. It’s just a paragraph. On the Internet, you didn’t actually talk to that guy to see what that was. You know what I mean?

Like, it’s. It’s that. That thing of, like, I had it. I don’t know. I didn’t plan on talking about this, but it’s perfect time because I learned so a lesson in it. I was on my laptop one day on Instagram.com and it was the day of the dove awards, which is a Christian music awards. And I had a gospel song get nominated for a Grammy this year. What’s it called?

JOE ROGAN: The double awards.

JELLY ROLL: The Dove d O V awards. And it’s like the Christian Grammys.

JOE ROGAN: Okay.

JELLY ROLL: It’s been around for a long time. Gospel music association. I have a. I did a song with a Christian artist this year named Brandon Lake. It’s called hard fought. Hallelujah. I got to sing it at the Vatican, Joe.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, wow.

JELLY ROLL: I got to sing this. Will you pull that clip, Jamie, of.

JOE ROGAN: Me at the Vatican?

JELLY ROLL: I sang and sing St. Peter’s Square, Joe.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God.

JELLY ROLL: First live concert ever in St. Peter’s Square, right outside of St. Peter. St. Peter’s Basilica was our. This is it.

JOE ROGAN: Wow.

JELLY ROLL: Right here. Watch.

JOE ROGAN: St. Peter’s Basilica.

JELLY ROLL: Look, that’s the basilica right there. I got goose. Look at that. That’s the square, bubba. That’s Vatican City. Look at this.

JOE ROGAN: That’s incredible.

Performing at the Vatican

JELLY ROLL: I will tell you, that’s incredible. Biasly. It might have been my best vocal performance of my career. Rear. Wow, look at that, Joe.

JOE ROGAN: But you’re already losing weight by then.

JELLY ROLL: Yeah, no, for sure. This was about six months ago. Shows you how much I’ve lost since then.

JOE ROGAN: You look like a different person even now to that, dude.

JELLY ROLL: What’s funny? When you’re five, when you’re 500 pounds, you lose 20 pounds. You don’t really see it. But when you’re beautiful, though, dudes.

I went out to sound check Joe, and of course, y’all know I’m emotional by now, but I couldn’t even get through sound check. I was crying so hard. But watch this part right here. You’ll see my hand shaking. I’m shaking. Shaking up there. You see it?

JOE ROGAN: Wow.

JELLY ROLL: I am shaking my. You see the mic? Watch the microphone hand, because it’s the one that doesn’t lie. Y’all know that the other one you can shake while you’re moving it with the microphone hand. Look at it.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, man. Yeah, man.

JELLY ROLL: It was wow. And I’ll tell you a story about this incredible. I know I keep bringing up God things, but they called me to do this, and it was Pharrell and Andrea Bocelli. Put this together. Okay. Okay. And I love Pharrell. He’s a deer. Deer became a friend of mine. Sweet guy. And I go, okay, cool. And I get there and Teddy Swims is there. And Jennifer Hudson.

JOE ROGAN: I love Teddy Swims.

JELLY ROLL: Teddy Swims is the dude, baby.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, man, that dude’s got a voice.

JELLY ROLL: He’s got a voice, dog. It is ridiculous. You had him on yet? No.

JOE ROGAN: We’ve been talking, though. We’re going to do it.

JELLY ROLL: Please. His next album. Bring him prison next. He’s a good conversation too, man.

JOE ROGAN: I believe it.

JELLY ROLL: Sweet soul, little Georgia boy. Just southerners. Southerners. Collard greens. You’re going to love him. He’s just like. Like me.

JOE ROGAN: He reminds me of you. He’s the sweetest that. Sing his ass off.

JELLY ROLL: It’s not fair. It’s not fair. I went him sing with Bocelli and. I mean, if you’re standing next to Bocelli and you got a voice. Think about that. So I get there and I’m like, all right, so what’s the story here? And every. Everybody was either singing with Pharrell or Bocelli. But me, I was the only person in that whole event that was singing alone. So I get super nervous. I’m like, why did I end up alone? You know what I’m saying? I was like, y.

I was like, oh, if Brandon Lake couldn’t make it for some reason, I was like, this is bad. I’ve never been more nervous. I go out for sound check. I’m balling crying, and I’m like, dude, this is so crazy. And then I walk out and I’m like. When I go to do it right before I go out, they come to me and go, hey, Jennifer Hudson’s going to come out at the very end and do hallelujah with you. Or just do hallelujah. You just praise for a minute while she does it.

I was like, the Jennifer Hudson? They were like, yeah. I was like, so Jennifer Hudson walks over to me. I love her. She goes, all right, what do you want? She’s so sweet. She’s like, I’m open for notes. You got any suggestions? It’s one of the greatest female vocalists ever. I do not have a suggestion. We’ll start there. I am Jennifer. I’m embarrassed. You have to sing near me, but you know what I’m saying?

And I’m like. And she goes. And then it hit me and I looked at her and I’ll never forget this moment. She goes, what do you think we should do? I said, we give them Jesus. I said, I think that’s why I’m here alone. I think, you know, I’m the one that’s supposed to bring Jesus here. Like, I know it’s a Jesus thing obviously, but like we’re supposed, this is supposed to be a. She grew up in the south too. She grew up Chicago, you know, she grew up Midwest.

And I go, this is supposed to be the church we grew up in. Jennifer. She was like, that’s all I needed here. Oh, Joe. Just when I had the best vocal performance of my life, Jennifer Hudson comes out and takes them to church. We. It’s a full praise and worship. That point. 200 choir members, hands up in the sky. We’re in front of St. Peter’s facility. They’re worshiping out there, dude. Hands are in the sky. Dude. It was, it would watch it after the show if you can. It’s worth five minutes. It’ll. It’ll make you tear up a little bit. Dude.

JOE ROGAN: It was making me tear up right now.

JELLY ROLL: It was. Oh dude, it was such a Jesus moment. I even started, I’m looking at the cardinal. I’m going, can we get a little praise for Jesus in here tonight? Can we get a little praise for Jesus in here tonight? And I’m just. You can see the veins in my face, Joe. I don’t remember it. I just was just there, you know what I mean? Like, it’s just wow. I just literally.

Look right then and this is where Jennifer Hudson’s going to come out.

JOE ROGAN: Wow, these people lined up in the street too. This is wild.

JELLY ROLL: Oh dude. What you don’t see is the only reason you don’t see people on the side streets is because they finally got rid of them. When it first opened, there was like, like all over Rome. You just could not move. Like, like 6, 700,000 people were down there trying to see this thing. It was the first time they’ve ever done live music at the Vatican.

JOE ROGAN: That’s crazy.

The Grand Ole Opry Invitation

JELLY ROLL: I could not believe I got that call, Joe. That’s crazy. And then when I got there, I just kept being more confused. I was like, hold on. I’m the only one that’s not singing with the two people that put this event together. Literally the only artist. Because Jennifer Hudson sang with him. Teddy’s flying with him. I was like, what am I here for? You know what I’m saying?

I just could not figure it out. I never had more imposter syndrome. And I prayed, and I was like, God, I cuss. I smoke. I am. I don’t. How am I being a vessel here? And then that’s whenever I was just. I heard it just so clear, like, dude, just open your hands. Just.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, got you. Yeah. I want to play you something. So do you remember that Craig Morgan moment where you talked about it when you were on stage at the Opry?

JELLY ROLL: Oh, yeah. Almost home.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: It’s one of the coolest nights ever.

JOE ROGAN: Let’s play that. I want to play that because we’re going to show you something. I’m going to show you something.

That was a really powerful moment because you were talking about how you would listen to that song in prison. And how you went to the Opry and you sat there. I think you were in the seventh row. Seventh row, yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Exactly where I was. Sixth or seventh. I was right back there, stage left.

JOE ROGAN: And you talked about it when you were on stage the first time you were ever on stage at the Opry. I want to play that first. And we’re going to play something else.

JELLY ROLL: You know, it’s crazy, dude.

JOE ROGAN: Do you have it, Jamie? You want me to send it to you?

JELLY ROLL: Yo, while you’re looking that up, can I do something right quick?

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: I’m in love. My wife’s got a book coming out. Everybody’s called Stripped Down. It’s coming out in February. She finally wrote her life story. I’ve never been more proud of a human in my life, y’all. I’m so proud of you in February. You deserve this, girl.

JOE ROGAN: Beautiful.

The Opry Performance

JELLY ROLL: I brought you a copy here. It took me 36 years to make it to the stage. Big Jelly, 500 pounds. Look at most special.

JOE ROGAN: Yes, sir.

JELLY ROLL: Night of our life.

We’re going to sing y’all some music for the soul from the soul. This song is called Son of a Sinner Baby. Yes, sir. Go.

You got that plaque.

I never get lonely. I got these ghosts to keep me company. I took the rib.

I’m going to be more honest than I probably should be. In 2008, I was incarcerated in a local penitentiary. I had made some horrible decisions. I found strength and music.

While incarcerated, I had a little girl. She was in the crowd tonight. She’s now 13 years old. I remember sitting in my jail bunk when I knew she was born and thinking I had to do something to change my life. I came home and I pursued the dream of music by selling mixtapes and T-shirts out of the trunk of my car. Right here in Nashville, Tennessee.

I married my best friend. We have full custody of that 13-year-old now.

And in that jail cell, I found strength in country music. I used to listen to Craig Morgan sing Almost Home in my jail cell and think, I’m going to change my life when I get home. I came home and googled Craig Morgan live performance, and he was right here at the Grand Ole Opry. I sat right there with that man with the ball cap and the seventh row Dycon. On this road city no line. I watch Craig Morgan tried.

For those of y’all that don’t know, I make music for the broken. I make music for the have nots and the lost causes in life, the ones that have been through something and overcame it. If you haven’t been that person, you know somebody who has. And I represent that person. I want to dedicate this song to everybody who’s ever felt worthless and found their way out of that dark place. This record is certified gold. It is called Save me. Thank you.

Jesus.

All of his breaking is broken is broken but feel like it’s all that I need.

Something inside of me broken I hold on to.

Brian Suzanne’s.

Dorfman, baby.

Reflecting on the Journey

JOE ROGAN: What is it like seeing yourself, dude? What is it like seeing yourself that big and seeing yourself in the that huge moment?

JELLY ROLL: One, I love you, man. You tricked me again. I thought we were getting off the pod. So I was like, oh, I just want to shout my wife’s book out right quick. And then you were showing me video.

JOE ROGAN: I’m going to show you something else, too.

JELLY ROLL: I didn’t think I’d make a joke.

JOE ROGAN: I’m going to show you this.

JELLY ROLL: My buddy.

JOE ROGAN: Give me some volume. Congratulations on all the great things happening in your career and to thank you for the positive difference you’re making in.

JELLY ROLL: The lives of so many people who need the help. You’re doing great work, buddy. And I’ll never forget meeting you on.

JOE ROGAN: The Grand Ole Opry and how much it meant to me to hear you say my music helped you get through some really tough times. That’s one thing country music does really well.

JELLY ROLL: And who would have ever dreamed back then that I’d be back at the.

JOE ROGAN: Opry house today to say, Jelly roll.

JELLY ROLL: You’re officially invited to become a member of the Grand Ole Opry.

JOE ROGAN: It’s an honor to say welcome to.

JELLY ROLL: The family, brother.

JOE ROGAN: He wanted to play that for you when you’re here.

JELLY ROLL: Have a hug.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, for sure.

I love you too.

JELLY ROLL: I love you too, Bubba. Joe, that’s like, don’t get no bigger in country music, Bubba. It’s as big as it gets, Joe. You know what a grand old Opry dog. Oh, dude. I used to buy tickets to go there. And I remember Hanguk, man. I cried a lot on this pod. It’s over. I googled Craig Morgan. I heard Almost Home in Jail. And you’ve heard the song, right? It’s like the most tear jerking song about a homeless man. And it just reminded me of jail. Just, you know, no matter where you are, the mind’s strong.

I came home and the song was so much. I was like, Craig Morgan live. It’s like, grand old Opry house. And I was like, I’ll go. Could barely afford tickets. I think I talked some girl to buy them for me. I went and sat by myself. I had an ankle bracelet on. So there’s a show. Each show went off at nine. I had to be home at nine. So I was like, if he’s the last one, I’m screwed. And he comes out and sings Almost Home. And I had. I’m not bullshitting. I’d maybe cried 10 times in my life at that point. And I cried.

Cried. I cried like I’m crying here now. And I just remember thinking, man, I want to make people with.

I can’t believe they made me a member of the.

I want to make people feel the way he makes me feel. That’s what I want to do.

The Power of Music and Connection

JOE ROGAN: Well, you’ve done that, man. You’ve done it, brother, but did it, Joe, man.

JELLY ROLL: That’s crazy. Joe. Oh, dude. F*. Oh, dude. I bet I’m the first person ever got invited to their handle off rail podcast. That’s awesome. Oh, sorry. Let’s see it with me for a second. I just.

JOE ROGAN: You did it, brother. Dude, that you did what you wanted to do. That feeling that he gave you, you’ve given to many, many people.

It’s an incredible gift. You know, there’s such so few people in life that have touched people the way you’ve touched people.

JELLY ROLL: Thank you, Joe, man. Just. What a dream, dude. I used to. I used to write on my vision board. My wife first got together that your podcast was the number one thing I wanted to do every year because I always felt like I’d have a Joe Dirt moment on here, you know, I always felt like somewhere I’d be sitting here telling my story and the world would be tuning in, you know, and it’d be the fact that I’m on your podcast. Fact you’re my friend, dude.

JOE ROGAN: I love you, brother.

JELLY ROLL: I love you, brother. Thank you, man. Of course. Thanks for letting me on the podcast, but I just never thought this was a journey, dude. I thought I’d die young or I thought I’d kill myself. I didn’t think I was going to be able to figure it out.

JOE ROGAN: You figured it out, and you’re figuring it out more every day.

JELLY ROLL: Every day.

JOE ROGAN: And I think through that, other people are as well.

JELLY ROLL: I hope so.

JOE ROGAN: They’re figuring out their life for sure. Just through your songs, through your words, through your acts, through your deeds, through your life, through the way you’ve chosen this new path. For sure.

JELLY ROLL: For sure.

JOE ROGAN: You’re changing people’s lives.

JELLY ROLL: I hope, man.

JOE ROGAN: You are. You are changing people’s lives. I will tell you 100%, without doubt. You’re changing people’s lives, and you’re enriching people’s lives by being you. By being a real person, going through a real life moment, you know, and doing it the right way.

JELLY ROLL: Yes, sir.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah.

JELLY ROLL: Slow. It’s not easy.

JOE ROGAN: No, it doesn’t have to be easy.

JELLY ROLL: Telling the truth ain’t always fun.

JOE ROGAN: No, it’s not supposed to be easy. If it was easy, it wouldn’t be so fun.

JELLY ROLL: Gratifying nobody.

JOE ROGAN: Yeah, dude.

Becoming a Member

JELLY ROLL: God, Joe, man. A member of the Grand Ole Opry, dog. My name on the sheet, Bubba. When you come in the back of the Grand Ole Opry, they have them all. And I’m shaking, Joe. Like when that deer was in the stand, they have these plaques that they put the name on, and the first wall has only got two rows left of plaques.

I played there a couple months ago, and I remember looking, going, thinking to myself, the negative behind me was like, f*, I’m going to. I’m going to be on the new all. If I ever make it, it won’t be on this one. You know what I mean? You know, it’s just like, even then, I was having a moment where I was like, if they ever actually. You know, I never thought. I. Like when. When Jordan and Jen invited me to the Grand Ole Opry, I never thought that would happen. I never thought that I’d be allowed to play the Grand Ole Opry. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And then to be a member of it. And I’ll never forget watching Luke Combs when they asked him to be a member and just. Just like, I think it’s the first time I ever seen Luki emotional, you know? And I just remember being like, nah, it’ll never happen. Just like, I remember looking at Cam like, I’ll never be able to run a 5K or. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, man, I don’t know. It can happen, dude, man, if God gets involved, you have a little humility. I think the rest can work itself out, Joe, you know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: Amazing things can happen if you live your life true.

JELLY ROLL: Ooh, baby. Amazing things can happen if you live your life true. Well, I know you don’t leave Texas much, but you going to come see me at Opry sometime now? F*, yeah.

JOE ROGAN: 100%.

JELLY ROLL: You got to come see me now that I’m a member, dude. Close the show.

JOE ROGAN: 100%.

JELLY ROLL: I get to send my mail there now, too.

JOE ROGAN: Wow.

JELLY ROLL: Legally? Yeah. It’s crazy, dude. Like, all the OGs got their mail there. Johnny and them.

JOE ROGAN: Wow.

JELLY ROLL: It was, like, really, really cool. It’s like a super legend there.

JOE ROGAN: That’s awesome.

A Dream Come True

JELLY ROLL: So if anybody wants to write me a letter, send it to the Grand Ole Opry.

JOE ROGAN: Oh, my God.

JELLY ROLL: Oh, dude, that’s incredible. That’s… Man, that’s… I didn’t even dream of it.

God will make things bigger than your dreams. Somebody out there right now is dreaming of something and it’s too small. Dream bigger, baby. Dream bigger, baby. You know what I mean?

JOE ROGAN: That’s it.

Let’s wrap it up. That was perfect. Way to end this.

JELLY ROLL: I love you, brother. Thank you, brother.

JOE ROGAN: It’s been amazing.

JELLY ROLL: Bye.

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