Read the full transcript of Prof. Jeffrey Sachs’s interview on Judging Freedom Podcast with Judge Napolitano on “Rubio’s Shameful and Illegal Interference With the UN”, August 29, 2025.
US Blocks Palestinian Officials from UN General Assembly
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, August 29, 2025. Welcome to this special edition of Judging Freedom with my dear friend and colleague, Professor Jeffrey Sachs.
I wish we were not here to discuss this, but the United States State Department in the past several hours revealed that it has blocked the visas of all Palestinian officials intending to arrive at the United Nations next month for the annual meeting of the General Assembly and is revoking visas that it already authorized. What do you think is behind this, Professor Sachs? How can they get away with this?
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: Well, this is a part of Israel-US genocide operation that is underway right now. Israel is currently invading Gaza City. It is starving up to 2 million Gazans, 500,000 in extreme condition now, babies and children dying in large numbers.
And the United States is not only a party to this, it’s an active participant in this. The US does not want this debated or discussed. It’s an ongoing genocide operation, and that’s what this amounts to.
Legal Implications of Blocking UN Delegations
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: How unlawful is this? I mean, isn’t there an agreement that all member nations have with the UN that none of them will interfere with the arrival and free speech of other member nations at the UN?
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: Well, there is an agreement, a 1947 agreement for UN member states, but not being a lawyer here, but the US has blocked Palestine from being a UN Member state. So they may take legal cover in that dimension.
They cannot take practical, moral, or even legal cover in the fact that the US is engaging in a genocide right now. Nor can they take any solace from the fact that the whole world is watching this and all of the world other than Israel and the small part of the US that Trump represents are aghast at what is happening.
I’d like to recall for our Secretary of State, who really doesn’t do his job at any moment and doesn’t seem to have any awareness of it, that in the Reuters Ipsos poll of just a few days ago, 58% of Americans want all UN member states, that’s including the United States, to recognize the state of Palestine, and that is with 33% saying no to that.
So the overwhelming voice of the American people is exactly the opposite of what the State Department is doing. This is, of course, because we don’t have a democracy in this country. We have a gangsterism of our foreign policy. It is outside of any public opinion.
American Public Opinion vs. Foreign Policy
The American people are decent people. They are overwhelmingly opposed to what Israel and the United States are doing. Not only do they want a state of Palestine, but they say that they side with the Palestinians against this mass murder by the Israelis.
But that doesn’t change anything with these gangsters really, that run our country right now, what their motivation is. We don’t know whether it’s Epstein blackmail or pure corruption or something else, but this is absolutely not what the American people want.
And what Marco Rubio is doing is just bringing about the complete isolation of the United States from the rest of the world, other than our complicit partners in genocide in Israel, by the way. I just have to add, this is taking place across the board in our foreign policy.
The United States is succeeding in unifying the rest of the world against the United States, and we don’t know why. Trump does not run foreign policy for Americans or for American opinion or for American interests. He runs it for Israel. We don’t really know why that is, but that is the fact. And it has succeeded in isolating the United States pretty much across the board in the world.
Palestine’s Status at the United Nations
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: What is the actual relationship between the Palestinian Authority and the UN? Is there not – I mean, I live in the neighborhood of the UN. Is there not – I’ve seen this – is there not some permanent consulate or…
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: Of course. Oh, of course. Palestine is an observer state with formal responsibilities, representation, a seat in the General Assembly, and phenomenally talented representative, Ambassador Riyadh Mansour, who is eloquent, peace seeking, solution oriented, practical, and a marvelous representative of a people that are being slaughtered before the eyes of the world.
So this is absolutely a formal representation with many prerogatives. All I was saying was it is not a UN Member state with a vote in the UN General Assembly, though it has a seat in the UN General Assembly, it’s represented across UN institutions.
Why doesn’t it have a vote? For one and one reason only. The United States has blocked it because the US has used its veto in the UN Security Council to block a vote for the state of Palestine over the overwhelming call by the entire world and by international law, firmly established, including a ruling last year by the International Court of Justice and decisions taken just on July 29 this year by the UN General Assembly that there must be a state of Palestine in the UN as UN Member state.
But the US has blocked it. Why? Because US Foreign policy is run by Israel. It’s not run by Donald Trump. It’s not run by Marco Rubio. They are complicit in Israel’s genocide, to be sure, but they handed over the keys to Israel a long time ago. We don’t know exactly why.
Maybe if we saw the Epstein files, we’d understand it better.
State Department’s Contradictory Claims
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: The statement which accompanied the State Department’s announcement, all of which was released just a few hours ago, said that the PLO must repudiate its drive for statehood because this drive for statehood “impairs American national security.” If you can figure that one out, I saw that right, but wait a minute.
The statehood has been recognized by the UN since 1948. Or at least acknowledge that there should be a two state solution. And the two state solution has been part of the public policy of the United States of America since before you and I were born.
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: There is no public policy in the United States right now. There is improvisation. There is one person who uses whatever executive orders or Truth Social posts he chooses to use. It is all in the service of a radical, murderous Zionism right now, for reasons we do not understand. But that is the reality.
There is no policy of this government other than going along with whatever the Israeli government comes up with today. The Israeli government has come up with the idea of bombing Gaza City in the last few weeks. It came up with the idea of starving the people of Gaza.
When a dozen nongovernmental organizations reported to the UN Security Council that there is mass starvation underway from on the ground from people watching babies and children die, the US Representative said “no, not so.” The Israeli representative said “no. Anti-Semitic propaganda.” This is what mass murder is about. This government of ours does not have its own foreign policy at all. Trump is a shambles in this regard.
Historical Context of Two-State Solution
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Prior to this presidency. And I don’t know what the public policy was the first time he was around, but at least…
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: Judge, you’re correct that from Truman to Obama, it’s been our stated policy for decades that there should be a two state solution. By the way, Mr. Mumbles, Anthony Blinken used to mumble with a tear in his eye how important this is, as the US under Biden was also complicit in the same genocide that’s going on right now.
So this control of foreign policy by Israel is longstanding. But you’re absolutely correct that the two state solution has been part of American foreign policy, not of the current government. The current government apparently wants Jared Kushner to own and operate the Gaza Riviera after it has been starved to death or ethnically cleansed. Who knows?
We get nothing. This is so fatuous, empty and vicious what’s going on, but without any coherence at all. Anything that would pass a minimum standard of adult behavior, if I might say it that way. Meaning that you state positions, you explain them, you look at data, you respond with even a modicum of honesty. None of that happens right now. Instead, you have mass murder underway.
Historic Precedent of Blocking Entire Delegations
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Professor Sachs, according to Reuters, and maybe you can confirm or clarify, this is the first time in the history of the United Nations that the US has denied entry into the US in order to get to the UN of any entire delegation.
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: That’s my understanding. There have been individuals in the past blocked also for arbitrary reasons. But this is the first time that I have been able to ascertain, looking quickly at the data, since 1947, since this commitment went into place, that the United States is blocking a delegation and it’s blocking it at a particular moment when Israel is starving the population to death and storming the Gaza City and so killing, mass killing large numbers of people with the support of the United States.
So the US wants this killing by the United States and Israel to be off the, out of the news. It won’t work. Absolutely what is happening right now will only recoil to even more notice by the world of America’s complicity and its isolation in this and the puzzlement of how did it come to pass that a country of 8 million people run by murderous extremists took over the government of 335 million people with the President who said that he was taking back America for America’s interests?
This is the puzzle that everybody will be asking in the coming days.
Double Standards on Terrorism
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: I guess historians will be asking that as well. One of the other comments made by the State Department spokesperson when this awful, shameful decision of Secretary Rubio’s was announced is that the Palestinian delegation must “renounce terrorism.” What about the Israelis renouncing terrorism? Their state terrorism has been characterized as genocide by the highest court on the planet.
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: These words mean nothing anymore. But everybody outside of the little bubble from 16th street to 21st street in Washington, from the White House to the State Department, everybody knows nobody takes these words as meaningful as signifying anything but blather.
There is a mass murder underway and the US is castigating those who are being mass murdered. It’s incredible. By the way, this is not about Hamas. This is about the Palestinian Authority. So just to clarify, this is not about Hamas. This is about the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, which these same madmen in Israel are claiming that they’re going to annex.
And where they have started new settlements explicitly to bar any future possibility of a Palestinian state. Israel – I don’t know whether Israel will survive in this way because it has made itself the rogue state of the world in this murder and impunity – but the United States is dashed any global respect and role faster than you can imagine.
And this is against the express views of the American people. And we should understand that Donald Trump is plummeting in popularity or approval ratings. His most recent approval rating is 37% with 55% disapproval.
Political Consequences and Economic Crisis
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Very difficult to govern. That’s underwater when your approval rating is below 40 and your disapproval is above 55.
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: Yes. And the economy is tanking with a budget deficit of 7% of GDP with sky high interest rates. So in his desperation, he’s trying to fire members of the Fed who he has no authority to do at all.
This is a scramble of incompetence and isolation. There is no strategy. This is not power. This is desperation. It’s so desperate that you have to keep people away from even being in a building because nobody – because they know in Washington that the basic truths are so awful that you do anything you can to hide the truth. Of course, none of it works. None of it works. But that’s what they’re scrambling to try to do.
Blocking Medical Care for Palestinian Children
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: You mentioned being in a building. A couple of blocks from the United Nations are some of the finest hospitals and medical centers in the country. The same State Department that has blocked an entire delegation from landing at JFK has blocked visas for Palestinian children in desperate need of medical care.
I’m talking about kids that lost limbs. The medical centers in New York City ready, willing and able to treat them. And the children can’t get there. Same State Department, same mentality.
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: They’re starving these children to death right now in massive numbers. Outright starvation. Something we have not seen since the Nazis.
The UN’s Limitations in Stopping Genocide
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: You are an extraordinary student of the UN. You understand it better than anybody I know. You interact with it on a regular, consistent, systematic basis. What good is it if it can’t stop this?
The UN as the World’s Crossroads
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: The UN is the crossroads of the world. It is the one and only place on our planet where representatives of the 8 billion people come together. And when they are in the building, at least they are coming together peacefully.
That’s why what the State Department is doing right now is so profoundly disreputable. The UN can’t stop this because under the UN charter that was adopted in 1945, the United States has a veto that prevents the will of the world. 95% of the world population living in more than 180 countries that are calling for a state of Palestine and the application of international law.
And that is why the UN hasn’t stopped it. Not because the UN is some dastardly organization or people aren’t doing their jobs. It’s because the United States has vetoed the role of the UN in stopping this. The US has blocked the role of the United Nations in emergency relief.
Because the whole idea is clear everyone out, kill the journalists, don’t record the genocide, and then carry it out. And that is what is happening right now. So it’s not to blame the UN. It’s to blame the United States, which has a veto.
US Thuggery and International Law
And it is using its veto to try, though it doesn’t work, to keep the eyes of the world away from a genocide. And then it uses its threats all over the world that when people tell the truth, it bars them, it sanctions them, it prevents them from acting. It does whatever it can to stop international law. It puts on sanctions against these international courts.
In other words, the US is using whatever kind of thuggery it thinks it can use in order to continue this genocide. And so far, the genocide has continued.
There is talk, by the way, right now, and it’s a sophisticated talk, that there are ways around the US veto, that the UN General Assembly, operating in a procedure called “Uniting for Peace,” may have the power to circumvent the US veto and put in a protection force to save the lives of the people of Palestine.
This is right now being very actively discussed. There’s a lot of credibility to it. It may be the kind of urgent measure that will get done. Would the US take active action to prevent such a protection force? This could be the next step of the US engagement in direct war against the rest of the world. We shall see.
Closing Remarks
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Professor Sachs, thank you very much. I know it’s a holiday weekend, but you and I communicated, each expressing our fury and outrage of what the Secretary of State has done. We’ll see where this goes. Notwithstanding what we have talked about, enjoy the holiday weekend. We’ll look forward to chatting with you next week.
PROF. JEFFREY SACHS: See you next week. Thanks a lot.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Thank you. And coming up at 4 o’clock this afternoon on all of these issues, the Intelligence Community Roundtable with Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom.
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