Editor’s Note: In this episode of the Know Thyself podcast, host André Duqum sits down with Dr. Vasant Lad, the founder of the Ayurvedic Institute and a pioneer in bringing Ayurveda to the Western world. Dr. Lad delves into the 5,000-year-old science of life, explaining how the five elements, the three doshas, and the nature of consciousness shape our individual health and well-being. Throughout the conversation, they explore how to cultivate balance, heal the mind-body connection, and embrace a life of awareness and longevity. (May 26, 2026)
Introduction to Ayurveda and Dr. Vasant Lad
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Know Thyself Podcast. We are at Soham in Asheville, North Carolina. A bit of a deviation from the normal studio shootings, and it feels great to be in nature with our guest today, who is the founder of the Ayurvedic Institute, the man who really has pioneered and brought Ayurveda to the West, which is a beautiful over 5,000-year-old lineage. And he’s trained thousands of practitioners, authored several books, and he’s the man to dive deep into all things Ayurveda with. Dr. Vasant Lad, thank you for being here.
DR. VASANT LAD: Thank you.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Quite the pad. I want to set a bit of the context and the stage for our audience, for everybody who’s listening in who may or may not have known about Ayurveda or don’t know it at much depth. What does Ayurveda actually mean? What does that word mean?
What Is Ayurveda? The Science of Life
DR. VASANT LAD: Oh, very beautiful question. The very word, ayu veda — ayu is the life, and Veda is the knowledge, and that systematized knowledge became science. So Ayurveda is a science of life, in a simpler word. And it is so unified, it is so totally one with the universal law.
So according to Ayurveda, this spiritual energy is pure awareness. And awareness is expressing itself as the etheric space, air, fire, water, earth. These are called 5 great elements. And they are present in every tree, every flower, every human being. There is a Sanskrit quotation that, Sarvani dravyani pancha bhootikani — all organic and inorganic matter is made up of 5 great elements.
These are very important. So in the body there are smaller and bigger spaces — abdominal space, thoracic space, cranial space. So that is etheric space. At cellular level, every cell has a space, and through the cellular space there is a communication going on. If I want to communicate with you, first I have to create space in my heart and then listen. Then I have direct communication. So space is very important. Space is freedom, space is love, and space is communication.
Then the second important principle is air. Air is a principle of movement. In our body, the lungs are breathing, diaphragm is moving, heart is beating. All these movements — afferent, efferent, sensory, motor — all these movements are governed by air element. Air is the principle of movement.
Then where there is a movement, there is a friction. Where there is a friction, there is a heat — the fire. And the fire in the body is digestive fire. Liver generates large amount of heat, so liver is also seat of fire. That is called bhūtāvani. Agni is the fire, and this fire, Agni, maintains hunger, appetite, digestion, absorption, assimilation, and transformation of food into consciousness. All these are governed by fire.
Then comes water. Water is the plasma, the serum, the cytoplasm. All that biological substance — plasma, the serum — is water. And without water, cell cannot survive. Water is a universal chemical solvent.
Then comes earth. Earth is solid ground like calcium, magnesium, zinc, iron, copper. So all these 5 elements are present in our body. So this is a structural aspect of the body.
But biological combination of ether, air, fire, water, earth split into 3 doshas. Ether and air create vata. Vata is a principle of movement. Fire and water become pitta. Pitta is the biochemical activities. And kapha is earth and water — the building block material. So all these vata, pitta, kapha, they are present in every RNA, DNA as our genetic code, as our blueprint. And we carry that blueprint in our body.
So these three doshas, they were governing this biological structure of the body and psychosomatic expression of the body. These are called 3 doshas, and every individual has a unique expression of consciousness. In the true sense of the word, individual is indivisible, undivided, total unique expression of awareness. So we all are individual.
Now, based on our individual prakruti, which is your constitution, and because of change in the season, change in the time, change in the age, change in the environment, our prakruti ratio — vata, pitta, kapha — undergoes change. And that change, altered status of vata, pitta, kapha, is called vikruti. Vikruti is present altered status. And prakruti is your genetic code. And Ayurveda is a science of prakruti-vikruti paradigm.
Prakruti and Vikruti: Constitution and Imbalance
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So if I have it right, the way that you just described it, the prakruti is what you come into genetically. That’s what you’re set with. You have a constitution of these different elements in different levels. Correct. Vata, pitta, kapha. And we’re all born with a set amount of each. And then we have vikruti, which is the variation, the difference, the delta between that — as we live and eat and move in society, it changes.
DR. VASANT LAD: Correct. But this vikruti is the potential womb in which disorder may happen. If we don’t balance vikruti back to the prakruti, then there is ill health. So vikruti is the root cause of all disease, psychosomatic disorder.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: It’s a very different conception from the Western allopathic model, which I want to get into with you. But so if that is the source of disease, the vikruti, then what is the premise of what Ayurveda is trying to understand and bring to everyone’s understanding?
The Sankhya Philosophy: The Foundation of Ayurveda
DR. VASANT LAD: So Sankhya is a very profound philosophy that Ayurveda is based upon. Sat means truth and kya means to realize. To realize the truth behind the creation of universe is Sankhya. And there are 24 attributes. The first expression is Purusha. Purusha is awareness. Puroshete iti saha purusha. Pura means city. Take Panderpur, Kanpur, Nagpur. And our body is a city of senses. And within this sensory mechanism, the city of senses, there is a pure awareness. That awareness is called Purusha. And Prakruti is creative potential. And this whole universe is a divine dance of Prakruti in presence of Purusha.
So Purusha and Prakruti both are eternal, timeless existence. They were one. Because of Sattva, Rajas, Tamas — these three gunas were absolutely in equilibrium. But when their equilibrium is disturbed, the Big Bang happened. And during that Big Bang, Prakruti separated from Purusha. And first expression is Mahat, which is cosmic intelligence. And intelligence means to put everything in its right place. That’s the glory of intelligence.
So, Purusha, Prakruti, Mahat — then, “I am.” That I am-ness is there. Every creature, every bird has a feeling of I am, I am. And that eternal I am is existential. And that I-ness is called Ahankaar. And because of that Ahankaar, in our body, every single cell has a definite form, definite shape. RNA, DNA, they have definite shape. The shape of that RNA, DNA is coming from Ahankaar.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Which is ego. Is that right?
DR. VASANT LAD: Then we call it ego.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: We call it ego. But separate sense of self.
DR. VASANT LAD: Ahankaar means I-former. And I form — I am is not ego, it is existential. But I am doctor, I am engineer, I am carpenter — then ego comes. In pure existence, there is I-am-ness, it is not ahankaar. It is just existential pulsation. This is called spanda. Spanda karika. Spanda is Shiva Shakti vibration. And that Shiva Shakti vibration is constantly creating the feeling of, “I am.” Mai Hu. So that Mai Hu is existential.
And because of Ahankaar, the fertilized egg underwent the different mitotic division. And in that division, millions of cells came to create a brain. Other millions came to create cardiovascular system, the lungs, the skeletal system. All this is an expression of ahankara. If there is no ahankara, no creation is possible.
Then it becomes ego. Then, “I, this is my life, this is me.” And then we always do all egotistical activity. That is ahankara. But in Sankhya, the model of creation, ahankara is biological need. That is absolutely necessary — to create your self-identity, your self-existence.
Then ahankara has 3 gunas: sattva, rajas, and tamas. Sattva is clarity, purity. Rajas is movement, agitation, temptation. And tamas is the darkness, the material thing. Now you are observing, so you are sattva. My body is tamas. It is material. And your sattva is coming through your sensory perception to meet with this tamas. So meeting point of sattva, rajas, tamas gives us experience. So there is no experience without this equilibrium between sattva — the observer — rajas — the observation — and tamas — the thing to be observed.
So this is a wonderful thing, and Shankara philosophy talks a great deal about that. From the sattva, the whole sensory world is created, and from the tamas, the whole objective world is created, and rajas is the bridge between sattva and tamas. So this is briefly Sankhya’s philosophy. I like that philosophy.
The Age of Ayurveda and Its Purpose
ANDRÉ DUQUM: How old is the philosophy?
DR. VASANT LAD: Oh, for a Westerner, we say 5,000 because they don’t like to go back. Then it is more than 5,000. It is 10,000-year-old philosophy. But you know, for Westerners, they don’t like anything which is very old. They say it is prehistorical.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: I mean, yeah. It’s tough to recount anything past last week. I’m trying to think of what the original intention was in discovering and formalizing words to this philosophy 5,000, 10,000 years ago and the relevance it has today. So what is the goal of Ayurveda and this understanding from the tridosha and the 5 elements and the 3 gunas? What is it all aiming to serve?
DR. VASANT LAD: Ayurveda is the medicine of individual. Individual medicine. Satvam Atma Sharira Ncha Trayam Eta Tridandvat. Satva is the mind, Atma is the conscious principle, and Sharira is the physical body. So Ayurveda helps us to understand the Sharira, the physical body — Ivar Prakruti, Ivar Vikruti. Then we have physical prakruti, then we have mental prakruti, and then we go into the pure consciousness.
So Ayurveda aims to create balance of Sattva, Rajas, Tamas and to heal the body, the mind and consciousness. When we heal the body, mind and consciousness, then a person’s life becomes happy, peaceful, blissful. And Ayurveda is a science of longevity. Jeevayada sharadaha ashatam, paschema sharadaha ashatam. “Let us see each other for 100 years.” That’s a beautiful thing. So why to live long? Just to enjoy the life.
So Ayurveda is a science of longevity of life. It is understanding what the individual’s prakruti is and what is the present altered status of prakruti, which is vikruti. And prakruti-vikruti paradigm is the basic paradigm in Ayurveda.
Dr. Lad’s Journey: From India to the West
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So you were sort of — if I have it right — from a guru who said that you, from a young age, would go on to teach Ayurveda to the West. You were a quiet young boy. How did this path first kind of come into your vision — before you came out to the West and everything, you were teaching back in India. What was it like as a young kid who was quiet, who was told that you were going to do big things with Ayurveda?
DR. VASANT LAD: In India, we have Guru-shishya tradition. So my Guru is my father’s Guru. And my father took me to his Guru. And I saw him — his simplicity, his clarity, his love, his compassion. I was totally thrilled. Then he initiated me. And during initiation, he gave me mantra, he taught me how to sit and how to meditate. And then he blessed me. He said, “You will become Ayurvedic physician. You will teach Ayurveda to the Western world. And through Ayurveda, you will bring this beautiful spiritual foundation for education.”
Because without self-knowing, life has no meaning at all. If you do not know yourself, your education, your degree has no value whatsoever. So self-knowing is very important. And Ayurveda is the science of self-knowing.
That’s why we are here — this is education. We teach the people, “Hey, you are vata, you are pitta, you are kapha, then this is a proper diet for you and that is not a proper diet for you.” And that’s why the whole base of Panchakarma is like understanding what is prakruti, what is vikruti. Based upon that, we give individualistic Panchakarma program, which is detoxification. Because we have toxified our brain — too many judgments, criticism, like, dislike, and all that — and there are in our day-to-day life relationships.
Ayurveda says our life is relationship. Relationship between husband and wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, but also my relationship with my body. My relationship with my mind and my relationship with my consciousness must be absolutely clear. And clarity in relationship breeds compassion, and compassion is love. Therefore, love and clarity go together.
So in Panchakarma, based upon Prakruti-Vikruti paradigm, we use Shirodhara, which is oil running. You have experienced that — oil is running through the scalp.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: It’s been a very oily week for me.
DR. VASANT LAD: Because when the baby was in the mother’s womb, it was surrounded by amniotic fluid. And that was the oily surrounding, oily environment. And the baby was moving. Oil is very important for the cell to live long.
The Crisis of Modern Health and the Limits of Western Medicine
ANDRÉ DUQUM: I’ve regressed back to my fetus origins. So I mean, I felt so amazing this week and I know how powerful Ayurveda is in my own personal life.
Right now, when we look out into the world, roughly 7 in 10 people in American society are overweight or obese. 10 in some sort of chronic disease or illness, roughly 20+ percent of people on some sort of psychiatric medication. I think Krishnamurti is quoted, “It is no measure of success to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” And I’m curious your thoughts on where the Western allopathic model is fundamentally getting it wrong when it comes to treating chronic disease and illness.
The Role of Western Medicine and Ayurveda
DR. VASANT LAD: No, Western model is wonderful because during acute emergency we have to go to the Western model. During severe heart attack or fracture or stroke paralysis, there we need that. But once the emergency is over, then there is no way. Then they have to come to Ayurveda. Then Ayurveda gives them proper diet, proper lifestyle, detox program, cleansing program, rejuvenation program called Rasayana.
So this is very good that Ayurveda — we are teaching Ayurveda concurrently and inherently together with, based upon modern medicine. Because modern medicine says there is no fever without infection, but there is fever without infection. They then say, “Oh, this is a fever of non-specific origin.” There Ayurveda says when your Pitta is high, fever is there, and when your Pitta is low, you will be under hypothermia.
So Ayurveda looks at every disease as a certain imbalance between body, mind, and consciousness, imbalance between Vata, Pitta, Kapha. And there are dhatu, the 7 dhatu: Rasa, Rakta, Mamsa, Medha, Shiva, Jala, Shukra. Rasa, the plasma, the serum, the cytoplasm. Rakta, the blood. Mamsa, the muscle, skeletal muscle, smooth muscle, striated muscle. Then asthi, the bones, cartilage. Then majja, the bone marrow, including majja is the nervous system. And shukra are the male and reproductive and female reproductive tissue.
So dosha, dhatu, mala, mulam, hisharira. This constitution, the foundation of constitution is 3 doshas, 7 dhatu and 3 malas. Within this structure, they have built their whole system of medicine. And when they are out of balance, then it creates illness.
So the very beautiful definition of disease is dosha, dosha samurshana janitovya. Aggravated dosha entering into the tissue, they attack the tissue and they alter the tissue’s function and tissue structure, and then it will create a disease. This is wonderful.
And what we are doing in Panchakarma, we are separating this complex network of mixture of dosha and dhatu. Because in that we build ama. Ama is a toxic, morbid metabolic waste. And if our agni, the digestive fire, is not at par, then undigested food becomes toxic. So ama is a toxic, morbid metabolic waste, and that ama is accumulating in the brain, in the lungs, in the liver, in the heart, in the cardiovascular system, and that causes the disease.
So this is a very long lingering. During acute attack, we have to go to the modern medicine. But in Ayurveda, when heart attack is over, we can give proper diet, proper the rudh basti. We create a dough of whole wheat dough and put on the heart and put flaxseed on.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Amazing.
DR. VASANT LAD: I did that. Yeah. And that will improve to dilate the coronary artery and it can prevent the future coming attack.
Understanding Ama: The Root of Disease
ANDRÉ DUQUM: For people that aren’t as familiar with the vernacular and vocabulary, how would you say — is inflammation similar to ama? From the Western perspective, what’s the closest thing to ama?
DR. VASANT LAD: Ama is a toxic, morbid metabolic waste, and ama changes our biochemistry. Ama is the root cause of inflammatory marker. But inflammation is produced by Pitta. When Pitta is high, it will create inflammation. When Kapha is high, it will create congestion. And when Vata increases, Vata will create degeneration — deterioration, destruction of the tissue.
So there are certain diseases that are due to catabolic changes. They are called degenerative diseases. Some certain diseases are over-nourishment, anabolic disorder — obesity, hypertension, hyperlipidemia. These are anabolic disorders. And the catabolic disorder is arthritis, rheumatism, sciatica, old age. And in between them, inflammatory diseases — they come under Pitta. Again, Vata, Pitta, Kapha is there.
The Three Doshas: Vata, Pitta, and Kapha
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So let’s say maybe we have a couple hundred thousand people listening to this podcast right now. I would love to bring it directly into their experience. When you say Pitta, Kapha, Vata — and we can put some images on screen — could you describe what the constitution looks like for each of those persons?
DR. VASANT LAD: Beautiful. The physical appearance also denotes the type of the dosha. Generally, Vata people, they are tall, skinny mini, teeny tiny. They are hyper. Even they fiddle paddle with the finger. They will put finger in the ear. Whenever there is space, they will put finger. So this is weird, but this is the fact, because Vata has affinity to the space. So Vata individual, their skin is dry, dry joint, cracking, poking, and they are hyper. And they’re restless, anguished. They love jogging, jumping, and they’re hyper. So this is the typical picture of Vata.
Pitta people are medium body frame, but they wear glasses, very bright, brilliant intellectual people, always study. They sleep with the book on the chest. Weird. Because they are the bookworms. They like reading, studying, knowledge, investigation.
And Kapha people, they enjoy the life. They love to eat. And they have a little robust body frame and they are very calm, quiet, blissful. So just by looking at the individual, we understand what type of the person’s prakruti is. Prakruti is your personality, is your body type.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So for somebody who’s listening right now and maybe sees themselves more Pitta or more Vata — you’d mentioned a bit of their temperament and their physical makeup — what proclivities would they have towards certain diseases, illnesses, so they can see how they easily each come out of balance?
DR. VASANT LAD: In Ayurveda, the monotype are 3: Vata type, Pitta type, Kapha type — mono. Dual: Vata Pitta, Pitta Kapha, Kapha Vata. And triple, there are many. So what we decide through the pulse examination, we find out what is the major dosha.
When I read my own pulse — and there is an art of listening to the pulse — my prakruti is Vata 2, Pitta 3, Kapha 1. 1 is low, 2 is moderate, 3 is more. So I’m Pitta predominant, Vata secondary. But because of diet, lifestyle changes, the dosha go out of balance. And that can be detected through the superficial pulse.
Reading the Pulse: A Live Demonstration
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Would you read mine?
DR. VASANT LAD: Oh yeah, that’s great. We are both? Yeah. Okay. Wow. Can I see your tongue? Yeah. Oh yeah. You are traveling a lot. So your prakriti is pretty balanced — 2-3-2. Vata 2, Pitta 3, Kapha 2. But because of traveling, your Vata is high. And that Vata is pushing Pitta. I’m glad that you come here to listen to Panchakarma and that Shirodhara and all that technique. So you are pretty tridosha, pretty close. 2-3-2, Vata 2, Pitta 3, Kapha 2. These people are very spiritual, very loving, compassionate. They do wonderful work. But because of traveling stress, the Vata is high.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So Pitta predominant, Vata, Kapha pretty similar.
DR. VASANT LAD: Identical. That’s interesting. Very good.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: And you’re Pitta predominant?
DR. VASANT LAD: Yeah, I’m Pitta predominant, Vata secondary.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Okay.
DR. VASANT LAD: But my Vata gets aggravated, that’s why I’m bundled up with clothes and keep myself warm. I hate cold, I love warm. Yeah.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So for people that don’t know what that is — what is pulse reading? The primary tools for diagnosis, as far as I can understand, are the face, the tongue, the pulse. How are you able to detect someone’s constitution through the pulse? Because especially for the Westerners, that’s very—
DR. VASANT LAD: No, no, it’s very beautiful. For example, whenever I read the pulse, this is index finger, middle finger, ring finger. This is radial artery. I’m feeling and going deep, deep, deep. So if the spike comes here, it is Kapha. This is proximal — Kapha 1, Kapha 2, Kapha 3. Middle spike is Pitta — Pitta 1, Pitta 2, Pitta 3. And distal spike is Vata — Vata 1, Vata 2, Vata 3.
So when I go down, deep down, under all 3 fingers I get Pitta, Pitta, Pitta. Pitta is 3. But under index and middle finger I get Vata 2, and under ring and the middle finger I get Kapha 2. So your prakruti is Vata 2, Pitta 3, Kapha 2 — 2-3-2, that is your constitution to the default. Then I come to the superficial level, the present altered status of the dosha. Definitely your Vata is high, and the Vata is high under middle finger, and it is pushing Pitta. So Vata pushing Pitta is the present status.
This is amazing. All our students learn that and we teach through webinar, through seminar on these different parts of Ashtavidya Pariksha. Nadi, Muthram, Malam, Jhumma, Shabdha, Sparsha, Durgaprati. Wonderful. Nadi, the pulse, tongue. Tongue examination is very important because tongue is a mirror of viscera. So in this Ayurvedic clinical assessment, Ayurveda is a very clinical medicine. Plus it has philosophy, plus it has detoxification. So from Ayurvedic point of view, these are the methods to understand about the individual’s prakriti, vikriti.
Balancing Vata: Diet and Herbal Protocols
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So let’s say somebody had a higher Vata, what’s something they could do in their life to help bring it back into balance, to more their prakriti?
DR. VASANT LAD: When the Vata is high, we pin down what symptoms the person gets — gas, constipation, bloating, lumbago or stiffness in the back, or cracking and popping of the joint, and insomnia. So this is the high Vata. Then we can give some diet to calm down the Vata. The warm, freshly cooked warm food with little ghee in it. Ghee is oily, which will again help the person to calm down Vata dosha.
Then we will tell them don’t eat nightshade — potato, tomato, eggplant. They can eat avocado or okra, broccoli, all those things. And then they should not drink cold water because Vata is cold. They should drink warm water. So this way we can give dietary help.
And there are certain herbal protocols we give — ashwagandha, balahavidari — to calm down Vata dosha. And because of gas bloating, we can give Gandharva Haritaki, which is one of the ingredients of triphala. And that is roasted with cast iron in the castor oil. And that Gandharva Haritaki is so beautiful. Half a teaspoon with warm water, it will calm down the gases, it will evacuate the bowel. And person suddenly feels grounded. That’s the glory of it. So this way, in case of a Vata person, we can do this.
The Tongue as a Map of Internal Health
ANDRÉ DUQUM: What else do you pick up from the face or the tongue? What are you looking for? And we’ll throw some images up on screen, but I think especially from the Western perspective, we don’t have the same conception of our tongue being a map into what’s happening inside of us. So how is the tongue a representation of our internal organs?
DR. VASANT LAD: Whenever I look at the tongue, the tip of the tongue is related to the thyroid gland. Tongue is divided into 3 parts: anterior 1/3, middle 1/3, posterior 1/3. For example, can you stick out your tongue? So you have ama in the colon, there is tightness in the mid-back, neck and shoulder blade area. And you have krumi. What? Krumi is a parasite. You have some Giardia, the parasite. There are patches of depapillation.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Depapillation?
DR. VASANT LAD: Depapillation. You have patches of depapillation.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Okay, what is that?
DR. VASANT LAD: These papilla are peeled off because of that krumi, the parasite. That’s why it may create a little bloating, discomfort.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Is that like gut dysbiosis?
DR. VASANT LAD: Correct, correct. The tongue is the mirror of gut. And just by looking at the size and the shape and the surface of the tongue, the margins of the tongue — when a person gets indentation marks of teeth along the margins of the tongue, that is a sign of malabsorption. When there is a line at the central part of the tongue, that means the person is holding emotions along the spine, the neck, the shoulder.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Is that what you saw with my tongue? I mean, I’m holding tension. I have tension there for sure.
DR. VASANT LAD: That’s why. And then when the white coating is there, that is the ama. When the ama has patches of depapillation, that’s a sign of some parasites are there.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Yeah, I’m curious because I went to Bali a few months back and I got Bali belly. We were all puking and it was pretty bad for a week.
DR. VASANT LAD: People who travel a lot and there are different waters — sometimes these parasites, they can come through the food or through the water. So that is quite possible.
So this is one of the wonderful Ayurvedic diagnostic tools — examination of tongue. The pulse, the tongue. And through that, just by observing this thing, we build up and find out which dosha is affected, which dhatu, the tissue is involved. And then we can create a unique individualistic protocol — dosha prathenic, specific to the dosha. Dhatu Prathenik, specific to the tissue. Then organ Prathenik, which is specific to the organ, the vital organ — the brain, the heart, the lung. And then that formula really hits the head of the nail and it really works.
The Mind-Body Connection in Ayurveda
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So again, I like to think about the differences in how the Western and the Eastern conceive these different things. I feel like we treat the mind and the body as two separate phenomena largely in the West. And the way you’re describing what you’re observing through the pulse and the tongue. And Ayurvedic as a system is very mind-body connected as one system, and the mental and emotional affect the physical and vice versa.
So I’m curious what outside of just the physical— maybe if you— I’m happy to be your guinea pig. And I know that through the pulse readings and just being in someone’s presence after doing this for so many years, you start to pick up other things which some would say you have like no business in knowing because how could you possibly know these things about someone’s mind or body just by a simple pulse read? So if you want to go a little witchy on me, I’m down.
DR. VASANT LAD: Generally, these are the 7th level pulse is prakruti. 1st level is vikruti. Then 6th level is manas prakruti. That is your psychological makeup. So whenever I go to that level, 6th level, I’m just explaining how we come to this conclusion. Then we imagine there is an 8-petal lotus under my finger. This is petal 1, petal 2, and each petal represents the prakruti, the constitution.
So when I was feeling your manas prakruti, these are the words: you are Indra, Agni, and Varuna. Indra, Agni, Varuna means you are a very spiritual person, very loving, and highly knowledgeable. There is a great compassion in you. And these are the manas prakruti. Every individual has this different type. Then they explain because Agni is knowledgeable, then Yama is introspective, then Nayrudha is related to some depressive personality, and other is Varuna which is compassion, which is your, you are very compassionate.
So every person’s deep nature of his consciousness can be felt through the pulse. As example, I have given this. So body, mind, and consciousness, this trinity is the unity of life. And Ayurveda has specific protocol for the body, for the mind, and for building up the consciousness. Through meditation, through mudra, through marmam, we can help. So this is a very totally different approach to the individual. And people love that. Because that changes their life. Even students who come to learn Ayurveda, ASP 1, ASP 2, ASP 3, their life is changing. They say that our life is changing. Because it brings clarity, compassion, and self-respect also. So this is very profound science.
The Eight Lotus Petals of Consciousness
ANDRÉ DUQUM: What are the other 5 lotus petals? What else could you pick up on someone’s mental level?
DR. VASANT LAD: You know, there are sometimes you can get the petal number 3, which is Yama, and they may be introspective, but they have a tendency towards self-judgmental, self-hatred, and that will lead to depression. Then next petal is the fourth number petal, which is Nayrudha. Nayrudha could be bipolar disorder, or it could be some spiritual possession. People get possessed by some evil spirit and they act weird, like a schizophrenia. So the schizoid personality can be seen there through that.
Then compassion, which is wonderful. Then other is Vayu, very bipolar disorder, and that is very connected to the depressive, obsessive compulsive behavior, that kind. And then come the north side of that is Kubera, which is very royal, rich person. And then come Ishan. Ishan is very spiritual. So all these 8 personalities are connected to the 8 directions. East, west, north, south, northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest. This is the energy field, geomagnetic energy field, shaping the consciousness.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Wow.
DR. VASANT LAD: This is very, very interesting.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Just what else we got?
DR. VASANT LAD: Yeah, you are amazing. Very profound. You are spiritual. You do yoga, practice pranayama, practice meditation, practice. There is a great deal of compassion. And do you love mysticism?
ANDRÉ DUQUM: I tend to lean that way, yeah.
Mysticism and the Gap Between Thoughts
DR. VASANT LAD: Mysticism. Ayurveda talks a great deal about mysticism. There is a great mystery around us. Even our heart is beating, it’s a mystery. The lungs are breathing, it is a mystery. And mysticism can be unfolded when we watch the breath. There is a gap between inhalation and exhalation. Stay in that gap in the beginning. Then slowly carry your attention. There is a silent gap between two thoughts. Then stay in that gap and then bring to the perception. In between two perceptions, there is a gap.
In that gap between two perceptions, between two thoughts, between two breaths, is a great awareness, is an ocean of awareness. And that awareness is freedom. That awareness is unconditional love. And in that awareness, the mysteries happen. So you like that mysticism?
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Yeah, yeah. I’m just very drawn to it. And I think through this podcast, it’s called Know Thyself. And so the whole premise is to be exploring all these deeper aspects.
DR. VASANT LAD: And that is the whole foundation of Ayurveda, know thyself. So know thyself is only possible when we are having moment-to-moment awareness of our perception, our thought, our feelings, our emotion. And in that, the miracle happens. Suddenly glimpses, you can see beyond. So these are the— in that thing, you will get a spike at the center. And I have a spike on the center. So you love that mysticism. That’s what I was sharing with you.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Thank you.
DR. VASANT LAD: You’re welcome, sir.
The Seven Levels of the Pulse
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So are those typically 3 levels that you go in? Is that like body, mind, consciousness?
DR. VASANT LAD: Correct. Amazing. Actually, there are 7 levels. But these are very subtle. The 7th level is the prakriti. 2nd level is manas prakriti. Then 5th level is your dhatu condition. It’s like vata, pitta, kapha. And you are of 7 dhaturas, or of the mounts, me, dashima, jashukra. And then we can come to the hoja stages, prana, then saktaka, the dosha, and then manas vikruti. So there are 7 layers of the pulse to know.
And when you change the level, it can change the spike. When you get a different spike, you are at a different level, and it demands a great deal of awareness to read that. It is a technique and it is a method. And once they learn the technique and method, and then they bring the awareness to their tip of the finger, they can read that.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Amazing. Well, before we move on, is there anything else in that regard, either through my pulse or through my face? It’s a great opportunity to be with you. So is there anything else you pick up in me?
Face Reading in Ayurveda
DR. VASANT LAD: We also have face reading, looking at the person’s face, the broad face, the tapering heart-shaped face, and the flat cheeks, some conch cheeks. Everything has a significant value. So when we look at the person’s forehead and there is a prominent line to the medial side, that is the liver line. Left side is the spleen line. So the person’s liver and spleen, they are working under stress. When there are horizontal lines, there are a couple of worries. Then when the lower eyelids are bulged, that is aging, plus it is connected to the kidney and bladder.
So this is interesting and we can read the face. Facial lines have a significant importance. Then there is a double chin which is sluggish thyroid. And then the nasolabial line is prominent. That means the person has malabsorption. All these things are there. And we use that in our clinical assessment.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Are there any imbalances you see from my face alone?
DR. VASANT LAD: No, you have beautiful— no, no imbalance. You have a bossing forehead, you know? Tall, bossing forehead. That means you are very spiritual.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Or it is balding. One of the two.
DR. VASANT LAD: Balding is different. Even there is a forehead which is above, which is from the forefinger. When a person has a tall forehead, that means the frontal lobe is very tall and great. And the frontal lobe, when it is well developed, it is spirituality. So that’s interesting.
Repressed Emotions and Their Effect on the Body
ANDRÉ DUQUM: I’m curious if you could elaborate a bit more on the link between the psychosomatic element, like how repressed emotions affect organs, which affect our physical health. And vice versa. And then that manifests through our tongue, through our face, through our pulse. We can see these things.
DR. VASANT LAD: Ayurveda talks a great bit about what is emotion. Emotion is the reaction of past memory to the present challenge. So in our day-to-day life relationship, I build my own image, and my wife has her image. And when these two images are there, then communication is filtered because image is created by judgment, criticism, like, dislike, experience, and conclusion. These are the factors that build the image. And therefore, in our day-to-day life sharing, we go into the dead past. We always live in the dead past and we speak from the dead past, we listen from the dead past, and through that the image gets hurt.
And when the image is hurt, then that unresolved hurt is accumulated into the body depending upon the nature and structure of the emotion. If it is a lot of grief and sadness, it will go to the lung. If it is deep sorrow, it will be in the heart. Liver is a seat of anger. Gallbladder is a seat of hate. Spleen is a seat of attachment. Kidney is a seat of fear, anxiety. And the stomach becomes nervous. And the colon is also connected to these emotions of fear.
So all these, when we do not understand the emotion completely, right from beginning till the ending, then unresolved emotion, unprocessed emotion, they develop crystals. And this is called crystallization of emotion. And the crystals of grief, sadness, they accumulate into the respective organ.
So in Panchakarma, when we do Abhyanga, Snehan, Svedana, Oliation, Sudation, then those emotions, they start liquefying. There is a decrystallization of emotion, and all water emotions, they come to the colon. Pitta emotions, they come to the intestine. And kapha emotions come to the stomach, and we remove them by Vaman. Vaman is a hemetics therapy to remove the emotions from the stomach. Then Viruparjim, which is a variation, removes the pathogenic emotion from liver, gallbladder, and intestine. And that really feels good. And then Basti, the enema therapy, removes the emotions associated with colon and kidney.
And that way Ayurveda brings all these emotional crystals to the gut. And by bringing them to the gut, then these are the big passages. Vaman, therapeutic vomiting, is very important. That allows the grief to come out. Virechan will remove the anger, fear, and Basti will help to remove the ungroundedness, insecurity, all these emotional factors. So the Ayurvedic perspective is very important. Panchakarma has that much depth to go to the emotional level. Therefore, people come here for 1 week, 2 weeks, then there is quite a deeper and deeper cleansing.
Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Cleansing
ANDRÉ DUQUM: What is the link between the physical cleansing and then coming to emotional clarity and then spiritual connection? What do you see as the link between physical vitality and spiritual vitality?
DR. VASANT LAD: On an average, people come here for 1 week. Within 1 week, when they are going through the Abhyanga, Snehan, Svedana, Oliation, and Sudation, and we give internally polishing with ghee. Within 3 days they become very emotional. All these emotions come. And when they are working, our practitioners are working on them like Rudbasti or Yakrudbasti, then whatever their anger, their fear, it comes out.
And finally on the last day we put them in a dark room and there is a different light spectrum, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, and indigo. This light therapy, which is called chromotherapy, they literally cry. So within one week, we can do physical cleansing, emotional cleansing, and also spiritual cleansing.
Ojas, Tejas, and Prana: The Vital Essences
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Could you explain a bit of the refinement from the bodily tissues arriving at chakra and ojas? So how does from the food we eat transmute and alchemize deeper, deeper into these more potent forms? And then I want to ask you about this.
DR. VASANT LAD: Wonderful. Yeah. In our day-to-day life, whatever meal we eat, within 12 hours the end product of digested food become ahar rasa, which is called microchyle. And that microchyle is circulated in the body.
So the whole Ayurvedic concept of nutrition, the plasma, which is Rasa Dhatu, within 5 days the unprocessed plasma cell become processed. So this is a very beautiful nutritional— 5 days for Rasa, 10 days for Rakta. It goes up to 35 days, and after the end of the 35 days, the super fine product of Shukra and Artha will become Ojas.
And ojas is your body’s immune mechanism. The ojas is forming every day, every moment, but that ojas is the pure essence of all bodily tissue, and that comes to the heart, and then it becomes parojas, super ojas, which nourishes consciousness. And then inferior ojas, which is circulating throughout the body, it maintains psychoneuroimmunological response.
So this is very important. Ojas is maintaining cellular immunity. Tejas is cellular intelligence. And prana is a flow of communication, the flow of intelligence. So ojas, tejas, prana, they are operating at the level of RNA, DNA according to Ayurveda, pilupaka and pitarapaka.
But ojas on physical level, but in spiritual level, ojas become aura. Your body’s neuroelectrical energy field. And that ojas goes to each chakra: mula adhara, swadhisthana, manipura, anahata, vishuddha, ajna. And all chakra system, the ojas become color spectrum. That’s why root chakra has a red color, second chakra has orange color, third chakra has a yellow color, heart chakra has a green color, blue, indigo, and violet.
So this chakra, the ojas, tejas, prana, with their frequency, they become color spectrum of the chakra system. And then root chakra has a grounding feeling. Second chakra has a wonderful feeling of procreation. Third chakra is a power, and digestion is a power, but leadership come from the Manipura. Anahata is a meeting point of lover meet with the beloved. And throat chakra is a communication, inner person meet with the outer person. And third eye, Alpha meet with the Omega, language is finished. And then crown chakra, Jiva meet with Shiva. But this is all the meeting point of the chakra system.
So chakra system is very profound, and we can do chakra healing through Ayurvedic Marma therapy and color therapy.
Ojas and the Cultivation of Sexual Energy
ANDRÉ DUQUM: There is this quote from your book I actually want to pull. “A person with strong ojas is attractive, with lustrous eyes and a spontaneous and calming smile. Such an individual is full of spiritual energy and power. Spiritual practices and celibacy enhance these qualities in the individual.”
I think anybody who’s checking in and listening right now and know people in their life that have this calming, assuring, powerful presence about them. And the last sentence there was referring to the sexual energy and how to come into right relationship with that. And so what is the link between Ojas, what people call semen retention now on the men’s side of things? And how does one properly relate to that aspect of themselves so that it doesn’t rule them, so that they can continue to cultivate more Ojas?
DR. VASANT LAD: That’s very good. Because when person observes celibacy, then Shukra in the man and in the woman, Ardha Vata, they build Ojas. And Ojas can be depleted because of too much sexual activity. Ojas can be displaced by too much emotional reaction, fear, anger, anxiety. So one should protect the Ojas, Tejas, Prana.
And for protection of Ojas, Tejas, Prana, there are specific pranayama. They do pranayama, Anulom Vilom, Kapalabhati, Brahmari, Ujjayi, Uddiyath, Shitali, Shitkari. All these are wonderful pranayama. And then while doing pranayama, you can do mula bandha, the sucking the anus in like a female horse. Then uddiyana bandha, which is called chin lock, and jalandhar bandha, cheek lock. And this diaphragmatic bandha is uddiyana bandha. And that will help the awakening of Kundalini Shakti.
So Kundalini Shakti is anal anilatmika. Anal is Agni. And anila means prana. Agni and prana create intense Kundalini Shakti. Therefore, your ojas nourishes Kundalini, tejas makes the Kundalini to rise up, and prana creates meeting of lower self with the higher self. So finally, the end product of ojas, tejas, prana is serpentine energy Kundalini, and that passes along the chakra system from Muladhara to Sahasrara.
So we should protect our Ojas, Tejas, Prana by eating proper diet. Ashwagandha, Balavidari, Chyawanprash, they promote Ojas. Even almond drink, almond milk, very important. And taking certain herbal ghee like Ashwagandha ghee, Balaghee, they promote Ojas.
But Tejas can be improved by concentration, by meditation, by mantra. And there is a certain Agni Sarakriya which is very important for Tejas. And Prana can be supported with the Sahita Kumbhak Pranayama, but most important to nourish the Prana is Kevali Kumbhaka. Kevali Kumbhaka is natural suspension of breath. So when you pay attention to the breath and after inhalation, but before exhalation, there is a stop and stay in the stop at belly button. And when you exhale, and after exhalation, Dwaadashanta, 12-digit prana comes out and there is a second gap. In that gap, if you stay there, this will amazingly strengthen the prana.
So Ojas, Tejas, Prana — these are the vital essence of ojas, the essence of kapha, tejas, the essence of pitta, and prana is the essence of vata. So vata, pitta, kapha at higher level become ojas, tejas, prana. And that is very interesting because Ayurveda and yoga go together. They are concurrent and inherent sister sciences. They hand together. And that is one of the beautiful things about this.
And then Ayurveda says that dharma, artha, kama, moksha. Dharma, the righteous duty. Artha, the monetary success. Kama, the fulfillment of positive desire. And moksha is enlightenment, is possible through Ayurveda and yoga.
Awakening, Meditation, and the Unified Field of Consciousness
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Through the cultivation of ojas, is that what you’re saying? And then what happens when somebody cultivates it for years or decades and they have experiences, like these awakening experiences. What do you make of those moments and what the purpose of this rising energy is leading us to?
DR. VASANT LAD: Really, when Ojas, Tejas, Prana are balanced, then you are in meditation. The whole life becomes meditation. The way you look, the way you walk, the way you listen becomes meditation. Look at the beautiful bird, the lovely blue sky, the tree, the mountain, everything. In that looking, there is no looker. In that listening, there is no listener. In that experiencing, there is no experiencer. This state is a choiceless passive awareness, as J. Krishnamurti talks a great deal about that. That happens through panchakarma, through meditation.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Would you say that person would then exude like a sattvic energy?
DR. VASANT LAD: That is a very pure sattvic, shuddha sattva, pure sattva.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So you can look at through anyone’s behaviors and mental actions and say whether it’s rajas or sattvic or tamas.
DR. VASANT LAD: Just by looking at the person, you can understand. Even Ojas, Tejas, Prana can be evaluated like Prakruti. This is very important. Person with rajasic quality has a hyper prana. Tamasic prana is very dull ojas. So our behaviors are also intimately connected to the ratio of ojas, tejas, prana.
And that’s why when this ojas, tejas, prana are in balance, then observer, observation, and the thing to be observed become one. This is the unified field of consciousness. In that oneness, there is a great deal of joy, great deal of beauty. Then you become universal existence. Then you are no more individual. Individual become indivisible, totally undivided, one with the cosmos.
Living a Sattvic Life in the Modern West
ANDRÉ DUQUM: For people that want to cultivate more of like a sattvic lifestyle to be able to cultivate that energy within themselves, what do you see as American society, Western culture, the most predominant activities that are not in alignment with that, that are causing more rajas? And how would you support people and recommend people more implement this sattvic lifestyle and behaviors?
DR. VASANT LAD: You know, I travel all over the world. I go to India, then go to England, Germany. There is nothing like America. People are very open, very spiritual. And day by day, American people in general, they are following spiritual path. Interesting. Many people are doing meditation, contemplation. They are doing satsang, kirtan. So this is a very good positive thing. And this is a practical country. They want to do everything boil down to the practical level, which is very important.
And Ayurveda is also practical. Ayurveda wants to bring spirituality into daily clinical observation. And we are doing the same thing. So I think, I mean, anything which happens here in America, it influences the whole world. You know, since last 40 years I’m here, and when Ayurveda become popular in America, it become popular in India. This is very interesting.
That’s why my guru told, “You should go to the America, teach these people Ayurveda, and then Ayurveda will be accepted in India.” This is sad part, but it is the fact. Because anything happens here, it influences the whole world. Because in the true sense, America is the nucleus of creativity. This country has a great potential, great spirituality, great materialism, and everything is great. Even nuclear power is great.
Building the Ayurvedic Institute in America
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So you came here almost 40 years ago. And that was a big move for you.
DR. VASANT LAD: Correct.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So you moved and you guys eventually created the Ayurvedic Institute. Correct. And then over the past many decades, you’ve been building, writing your books, training practitioners.
DR. VASANT LAD: Writing book, doing seminar, doing teaching. Yeah. And now this is your home.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: The whole world is my home.
DR. VASANT LAD: I feel homely in India also. I feel homely in England also. And when I’m coming here, I feel like a home. It is the love, the friend, who are very loving, compassionate. They make the whole environment like a home. And I have many good friends, both in East and West, as well as in India, England, America here. And it is the friend who, they are very loving, compassionate. So it is like a home here.
Ayurveda’s Perspective on Death and Longevity
ANDRÉ DUQUM: The Ayurvedic way of understanding life, of like the science of living and also death, I think is very fascinating in how it is different from how I personally understood life growing up. There is this increasingly popular conception of longevity escape velocity. As you’ve heard, people think with the advent of AI and what’s coming with the technologies to be able to basically keep living longer beyond our natural death point. And I’m curious what an Ayurvedic perspective says on death and this idea that we might actually beat aging.
DR. VASANT LAD: Wonderful, beautiful.
The Art of Dying and Living
DR. VASANT LAD: This is really the crux, the cream, the core of Ayurveda. Living and dying should go together. There is no life without death. And there is no death without life. Life and death, these are the two sides of the same coin. And we have to learn the art of dying. That’s why we teach the people how to die.
Just do Soham meditation. Inhale with So, exhale with Ham. So there are two stops. When you inhale, So, it goes to the belly button. Stay there for a while. And when you exhale, Ham comes out. And Dwa Dashanta, 12 digits. When you stay in the stop, in the beginning that stop is only for a fraction of a second, but slowly, slowly when you watch the breath and inhale with So, Ham, then the gap enhances.
Usually when you practice like 10 minutes in the morning, 10 minutes in the afternoon, 10 minutes in the evening, and 10 minutes on the bed before you go to sleep, a stage will come where you can easily stay in the gap up to 30 seconds, half a minute. In that half a minute, you live without breath. There is no breath. You live without thought. There is no thought in that gap. There is no mind. No time. So there is no mind, no time, no thought, no feeling, no emotion. It is just empty. We call this an empty boat. You become like an empty boat.
And death is emptiness, complete emptiness. So when you practice this dying, you reborn every moment. You will be reincarnated, not next life, but next breath. You’ll be reincarnated. Every breath is a new breath. Every thought is a new thought. Every inspiration is a new inspiration. So that’s why in India, if somebody is dead, we say he is expired. So expiration is the death. Inspiration is reborn again.
So birth and dying should go together. This is on physical level. On psychological level, I have to die to the unwanted, unhappy, sad past. Past is dead. We should live in the eternal present, not to live in the dead past, not to live in the future. Our future is modified past. So dying and living go together.
You can live long. My grandpa, he lived for 105. But his bhajan, he was chanting Vitthala, Vitthala, Vitthala. And one stage will come, he will just say Vitthala and he will enter into complete suspension of breath. Through that holy name of Lord Krishna, Vitthala, he was practicing dying. And death is a friend. In the death there is a rejuvenation, renewal, and you are reborn again.
So why do we talk so great deal about bringing the death pretty close? Don’t push death. Bring the death. Die to the yesterday. Die to the morning. Live eternally with this moment during afternoon. So moment-to-moment awareness is moment-to-moment dying to the past and reborn again to the present.
And this is a very profound thing that Ayurveda teaches us through the Soham. And the name of this foundation is Soham. Yeah, it’s very fitting. Very, very pretty, very fitting, because Soham is not a mantra, it is a cosmic vibration. Soh karey antarayati, hang karey bahippuna, Soham Soham Hamsaha, Jeevo Japati Sarvoda. Every living creature, every living being, they are chanting this Soham Soham through breath, but they don’t know. But if you pay attention to the Soham, then you are bringing death close to you. When you exhale Ham, you are dying to the Ham. And when you inhale, you are reborn again with a new, fresh, eternal breath.
The Natural Human Lifespan
ANDRÉ DUQUM: If somebody lives an extremely healthy life, what is the natural age — what’s like the natural human lifespan if it’s really healthy throughout?
DR. VASANT LAD: Yeah, actually it should be beyond 95, 100. Even you can live for 110, 120. Yeah. That’s quite possible. Then death becomes your habit. And then you can postpone the death. My Guru postponed that death 2 times. We thought he’s dead, we carry him to the cremation. And there he wake up. He said, “I was in blissful state and you think that I’m dead.” So this is very interesting. You can go into the samadhi. Samadhi is dying while living. Yeah. This is very profound.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: I think that for a lot of those folks that maybe don’t have a spiritual conception or thought, experience, belief, and something coming after this physical life ends, then it’s like, okay, I want to extend it as much as possible. And with the advent of all the technologies that are going to be coming out to extend life, some people think that we’ll actually be able to live forever. Beautiful. But you think, is that a silly immature perspective on life?
DR. VASANT LAD: No, everything has a right place. And you can live as long as you want, but live just to help, just to serve, just to existence. Because we have to serve to the existence. And existence is everywhere. That eternal present is very beautiful. And in that sense, whatever we learn, we should share. Sharing and caring is the glory of life.
The Wellness Industry and Timeless Wisdom
ANDRÉ DUQUM: I agree. What do you make of the wellness industry, which has become — it’s going to be a $10 trillion industry by 2029 — and what a lot of these practices and diet and lifestyle interventions that are simple and have profound effects, have been largely co-opted with yoga pants and smoothies. And I’m curious what you think of all these health fads that come and go when there’s this timeless wisdom of how to live in proper relationship with our own body and constitution. What do you make of that industry?
DR. VASANT LAD: That’s a very wonderful sharing. In America, everything is business. Even meditation becomes business, giving mantra becomes business, even spirituality is quite a business. Apart from, because there is nothing wrong in that, making business. But what is important, as you are making business, give the core, the crux, the cream of reality to the people. And make them stand on their own feet. They will not carry anybody’s crutches. They are totally independent. They stand on their feet. They take care of their health through proper diet, lifestyle, and rejuvenation program.
That’s why we teach domestic Panchakarma, because people can do this Panchakarma at home. That’s a very glory. Sometimes their life is so busy, they have no time to come here, stay here for a week or two, so they can carry Panchakarma at home. And we have special detox program, just detox your liver, detox your brain, detox your heart. So this way we are detoxifying those toxic organs. And that is the first step to the reality, first step to the spirituality. And spirituality is cleansing — cleansing the body, cleansing the mind, cleansing the organ — and doing domestic Panchakarma through diet. Just do kichadi fast. And amazing, that kichadi fast will, again, it will unfold the clarity of perception.
Dinacharya: The Importance of Daily Practice
ANDRÉ DUQUM: For those that are householders, which almost certainly everyone who’s tuning in right now is, in my own life, and we have this inner yearning for realization of self. How important is it, Dinacharya? How important is a daily practice?
DR. VASANT LAD: Dinacharya is very important because if we wake up at a particular time, like say about 5 o’clock in the morning, then brush your teeth, scrape your tongue, drink warm water, sit in a cross-legged posture facing the east, do Kapalabhati, Basarika, Anulom Vilom, Ujjayi, Shitali, Shitkari, do Soham. Amazing. And I’m enjoying that. My whole family is doing that. And then they are taking shower, they do their yogic practice, then shower, then have a little breakfast.
So this way, if we do everything like a Dinacharya, then it will bring circadian rhythm of the hormones in my brain. Serotonin, melatonin, acetylcholine, dopamine, they will secrete at a proper time and your brain will become a dynamo of energy. You never lose energy. That’s why Dinacharya is a discipline, discipline of biochemistry. At a proper time, you secrete your hydrochloric acid, pepsin, renin, gastric intention factor, and you are greatly hungry and you enjoy the food.
So if we bring rhythm in that, if our day-to-day life is irregular, then it will create depression, sadness, and all those things. So to increase the biorhythm, we need Dinacharya, Rutucharya, and the daily regime, seasonal regimen, and also diet changes. So this is a very beautiful rhythm to bring biorhythm into the body, mind, and consciousness. We need Dinacharya, the daily routine. And that daily routine is wonderful self-discipline.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So what would be a great example of what that would be in someone’s life? So wake up before sunrise, scrape the tongue, do your practices. What else throughout the day do you think is really important to maintain consistency on? Bedtime, what?
DR. VASANT LAD: Oh yeah, yeah. Just as we just shared with you in the morning that we should wake up early morning. And go to the sunlight. And when sunlight falls on the forehead, on the retina, it will stimulate pineal gland to release serotonin. And serotonin is very important for clarity of perception. It’s a pleasure hormone.
So likewise, we have proper time for lunch, proper time for dinner, and also we have certain routine at night. Before you go to the bed, just rub oil to the soles of the feet and scalp. Oil is very important. If you just rub oil to the bottom of the feet and the scalp, then put on your old sock so that you will not fall in the bathroom. That is another important disclaimer we have to tell these days.
And if we do this routine at night, then sit before you go to the bed, sit. And Ayurveda says drink a cup of warm milk with ashwagandha or warm milk with turmeric. Turmeric is becoming popular. Turmeric and neem can control the blood sugar. Turmeric is wonderful medicine. And if you drink turmeric with milk, oh, it will balance, it will release melatonin. You will sleep like a baby. And these are also routine given at the bedtime. Lunchtime is different routine. So our life is totally surrendered to the almighty.
The Biological Clock and the Doshas
ANDRÉ DUQUM: We talked about the doshas earlier, but likewise, the day has certain times that correspond to different elements. Could you share a bit of that?
DR. VASANT LAD: Yeah, the whole biological clock and chronological clock, they are connected. Chronology is time, sun rising, sun setting. So dawn and dusk is a Vata dosha, early morning. Then early morning and early evening is Kapha dosha. Midday, midnight is Pitta dosha. So this is a biological clock in relation to the chronological time.
And that’s why Ayurveda talks a great deal about this, that it is good to do exercise in the morning during Kapha time. People do exercise at midday, jogging, jumping. That’s wrong. Ayurveda says if you run at midday time, you will disturb your Pitta. So this is a very interesting thing that we should work in harmony with the biological time and chronological time.
Larger Cycles: The Yugas and Humanity
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Yeah, it seems like with everything that you’re sharing in the Ayurvedic system, there’s a cycle and a rhythm to life that we’re honoring that we normally have not been. If you zoom out further, from the microcosm of our biology and the cycles we have to the cycles around us within light and the 24-hour clock with the sun, do you see these larger cycles within humanity?
DR. VASANT LAD: Of course, that’s very true. Oh, wonderful. The larger time we call yuga. Yugas. This is a Kali Yuga. About 10,000 years the yuga changes. The Krita Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, Kali Yuga. This is a very cosmic time.
But also, the time is a movement. Time is becoming. And time is change. So within living in this time, we should enter into the timeless zone. While living in the time, you can enjoy the timeless zone. And that timeless zone is very important, as I shared with you, the gap between the two breaths, the gap between the two thoughts. Then you enjoy the time and you are resting in that gap so that you enter into the timeless zone of bliss and peace.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: Sign me up. So would you say that the Kali Yuga is ending now? Like what are you seeing?
DR. VASANT LAD: They say that Kali Yuga is ending. This is very, maybe next century Kali Yuga is gone and you will have wonderful Satya Yuga again. That is what they are saying.
ANDRÉ DUQUM: What do you make of the time we find ourselves in? Like humanity in this time entering the 24th century, with the advent of technology and AI and all of this. I’m curious, what is your perspective on what’s happening?
DR. VASANT LAD: This is very beautiful.
The Yugas Within: Breath, Consciousness, and Cosmic Time
DR. VASANT LAD: I learned from my Guru Maharaj. He said all 4 Yugas are within me. Means everyone. Krita, Treta, Dwapara, and Kali Yuga. Kali Yuga is a time of Kala. Kala means art, music, even computer, it’s a great thing. Kali Yuga is not bad.
So when you do certain pranayama, when you inhale with Soham and hold the breath, then belly button is very important. That belly button is Kali Yuga. Then when you hold the breath into the heart, that is Krita Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, and Satya Yuga. So crown chakra is Satya Yuga. Then Krishna’s Dwapara Yuga come here. So Krita, Treta, Dwapara, and Kali.
So in chakra system, when you hold your breath at a different level of chakra, you are surpassing those Kali or Yuga, the 10,000 years approximately we said, but there is a mathematical calculation and that varies according to the time zone. So we can raise our consciousness from belly button to the Sahasrara.
And Sri Aurobindo says, go above the physical brain, 4, 4, 8, and 2, 10 here. Purusha Sukt says, “Sahasrara shira shaha purushaha, Sahasrara akshaha, Sahasrara pada.” So that thousand-headed Purusha is everywhere. And atyattishta dashangulam, above the physical brain, 4, 4, 8, and 2, 10. If you bring your consciousness here, you are in beyond yoga. And that yoga is a super Satya Yuga. He calls it the Supra Mental State. About the physical brain. That which is true on spiritual level, in spiritual term, must be equally true on physical level, in physical term. So this is another concept.
And through meditation, you can go from Kali Yuga to the Satya Yuga. And which is a breath, and breath meditation is very important. Even I’m sitting here, I’m doing Soham meditation. Inhale with So, exhale with Ham. And in gap I listen to you, and in gap I give the answer to this. Therefore our communication is, though it is physical, but it is moving to the different dimension of spiritual awakening. So this is wonderful.
So time is a movement of prana. And Kali Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga, Satya Yuga, this is a cosmic time. And cosmic time is happening at every moment in our breath cycle.
The Power of Relationship
ANDRÉ DUQUM: It feels like it keeps coming back to relationship. Relationship between mind, body, breath, life. And of course, the humans around us and our friends and family. It seems like right now, because we do live in a time that is very individualistic and very divisive, that proper relationships are needed now more than ever.
So I’m curious, as you spent your past 40 years coming out to the West and building these relationships, just in your own words, what has the power of relationship been for you in your life?
DR. VASANT LAD: That’s very important. First, I have to improve my own relationship with my body, with my mind, with my thought, and with my daily perception. Because in relationship, there is a need of communication. When two individuals are speaking together at the same level of consciousness, there is a wonderful communication.
So in order to improve the clarity of communication, we have to learn the art of listening, art of looking. Look at your partner with fresh eyes, not yesterday’s eyes, not what last 2 weeks ago what she said to me. I have to live in the eternal present. And in this eternal present, there is a wonderful flow of communication. And we should forgive whatever has happened in the dead past.
Because I always give this example to my students. If your wife said, “You are a nut,” last week, and that nut is hurting like a bolt, and today she says, “Honey, I love you,” so suddenly that nut comes there. They say, “Oh, I know you love me. Sometimes you love me, but sometimes you call me nut.” And their quarrel started. So we should not bring the dead past in our present relationship. We should live in the eternal present. Then relationship is definitely going to heal.
Relationships are helping, and at the same time, we can use the relationship as the mirror. And in the mirror of relationship, we can watch our thought, watch our feeling, watch our emotion. That’s great. And that exactly I’m doing in my day-to-day relationship with everyone. And it works. It’s a beautiful thing.
But the relationship are not for judging the person. Relationships are for self-knowing. Self-learning. And for that, we should have very healthy, happy, clear relationship so that we can understand one another. And in that understanding, there is a sharing and caring and loving.
Self-Knowledge: The Final Message
ANDRÉ DUQUM: So beautifully said. I feel like definitely in my past, I’ve become aware the times I’m viewing relationship through my own prejudice and color-tinted glasses, not actually being effectively in communication and relationship with other individuals.
If you had a last message for individuals to develop that clarity within themselves, like you mentioned, building that relationship with yourself is the most important, that way you can really be in relationship with other people, not just through a tinted glass. So much of the world right now is teaching self-knowledge through just the intellect. And I’m curious, what does self-knowledge truly mean to you? If you had 60 seconds for one last message to everybody who’s listening right now. When I’m looking at you, I feel I’m you and you are me.
DR. VASANT LAD: That who is looking through my eyes, same thing is looking through your eyes. In reality, though we are two individuals, it is the same awareness, same perception is operative. And that’s the beauty of it. When I look at the tree, I feel I am the tree. When I look at the cloud, I feel I am the cloud. I am that mountain. And suddenly the distance between me and the mountain disappears. Me and the tree disappear. Me and you disappear. I am you, you are me.
When — this is very serious thing that if we put into our day-to-day life, in our day-to-day living, then there is no conflict at all. Conflict begins when there is a separation. When I become the observer and you become the object, then there is judgment, criticism, like, dislike, all these things happen. We have to bring unified field in our daily perception. Look so closely that I am you, we are.
Yeah, that’s beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Boy, it’s so cool. Yeah, the rain came in. Rain came in, huh?
ANDRÉ DUQUM: That was a great close to it though. Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. Yeah, thank you. And for everybody that’s tuning into this episode, thank you so much. Let us know in which ways this was impactful for you. And until next time, be well.
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