Transcript of Candace Owens Interview: Shawn Ryan Show, SRS #318

You have a lot of them.

CANDACE OWENS: I can’t even believe that I forgot about the Trump thing, the Trump tweet.

SHAWN RYAN: You forgot about it?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, until you just mentioned it. It’s not even something that I even think about. It was so strange. I was in Italy getting confirmed by a cardinal, and I was so excited about it. And it’s weird because it’s the President of the United States, and it’s something that maybe you would expect to see if you’re in high school and people are trying to find ways to hurt you. But when the President of the United States is like, you’re fat, you’re ugly, you know, it just feels weird. It was just very strange.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, it is weird.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s weird. Objectively, I thought it was very strange.

SHAWN RYAN: Did he forget he started a war?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I know.

SHAWN RYAN: Isn’t that a little more important than f*ing generating AI Time magazine cover photos about podcasters?

CANDACE OWENS: And beyond that, just kind of basically saying you’re ugly is just— there’s something so elementary about it. I’m just not in high school. That’s not something that I wake up every day and wonder, does the President of the United States think I’m hot or not? There’s something about it that’s just like, okay, he’s got a type and he said Brigitte Macron’s hotter than me. He’s allowed, it’s a free country, you know? Yeah, that was definitely a moment where I was going, these are some strange enemies to have.

SHAWN RYAN: Did you find humor in it?

CANDACE OWENS: I genuinely, at the time, there was just so much going on. I was in Italy and my phone started blowing up and I was so excited about the eve of my confirmation. I had just had this wonderful dinner with my priest and I had a meeting with the Cardinal about the confirmation, and I just turned my phone off because I didn’t want to even let in whatever energy that was. I was, nope, you’re not ruining my day. I felt like I was on the eve of my wedding or something. And there was too much spiritual goodness that was surrounding me, I guess is the best way to put it.

We had planned that trip for a very long time for me to go to Italy and get confirmed, and I just wasn’t going to allow that to be a memory. And so I was like, I’ll deal with that when I get back. It’s such a strange thing to be in a place where you’re putting the President of the United States on hold. Everyone, I guess, was waiting for a response, and I was like—

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t have time for this shit.

CANDACE OWENS: That was it. It was, I don’t have time for this. I’m really excited and this is my wedding day, so to speak. And that was that. And then we had a fantastic time in Italy. And then when I got home and the podcast was back on, I was like, okay, now where’s the child? Time to address the child here, you know, shame on you. This is not a good look for you.

I don’t wake up every day wondering if the president thinks I’m pretty. That’s just not a part of my life.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, as many enemies as you have, they give you a lot of attention.

CANDACE OWENS: They do.

SHAWN RYAN: I think it helps you a lot more than it hurts you, which is pretty cool.

CANDACE OWENS: Definitely don’t think that a moment like that empowers Trump. That’s what I would say. I think it diminishes him in a way. You shouldn’t relinquish your power like that as the president, you know, to dig up a photo of me when I was sick. And I shared that photo, by the way.

SHAWN RYAN: Are you serious?

Candace’s Battle with Mold Illness

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, that photo is real. I shared it early on in politics to talk about— I went through a really tough time when, what was it, 2015? I got sick from mold illness and I never thought I was going to be the same person. It was a leak, an HVAC leak that happened in my building and it destroyed my insides. I mean, it started what’s known as candidiasis growth in my body. I had— I mean, overnight, my whole— I felt like my whole life was taken from me. I couldn’t think. And if you don’t know what toxic mold illness is, it’s almost impossible to describe.

But I had head-to-toe overnight eczema. I had never had eczema. Athlete’s foot. My eyes were red and just kept pussing. And I didn’t know what it was. I didn’t know what was happening, why it was happening. My hair fell out. And in the scheme of everything that was going on, the worst part of it, forgetting the physical and not recognizing yourself in the mirror— because I mean, I could share worse photos than he shared. I was like, if you want them all, this is actually— look, I look pretty good relative to what was going on head to toe.

But the worst part was my brain. The only way to describe it is you can’t think. It’s almost like being in a permanent— if you ever had brain fog, imagine the most intense brain fog you could ever have. And it just physically exhausted me. So I was just in bed all day, every day. And the only way to beat back that sort of mold illness— I mean, they can give you temporary pills, whatever— it’s through diet, like the most regimented diet, because sugar is what feeds it.

It took me a year, and I never thought I was going to be able to be myself again. And that was the hardest part— not being able to think. I didn’t realize how much I had relied on my ability to write, and I loved writing. I just remember getting on my hands and knees and praying, bargaining really, with God, which isn’t something that you should do. But I was like, “I don’t even care about the physical stuff. I don’t care if my hair never grows back. I don’t care if I have these patches all over my face forever, if they never clear up. I don’t care if I have athlete’s foot once a week. Please just let me think. Please just clear the cloud in my brain.”

And I think about it because it was right before I became a public figure. And I just now have the perspective that I was truly humbled— truly humbled before— and never thought I was going to look the same. I never even realized how much I had relied on being generally good looking to kind of get through life. I didn’t want to see anybody. I only saw my cousin, my cousin who still works with me today, and would not go out of the house. Because I was sleeping mostly the whole time.

It was a long process, a very strict diet. Obviously I got so skinny because you kind of have to starve it. Anything that has sugar, even fruit, feeds it. But in retrospect, I learned how to cook everything from scratch. I learned how to eat the best ingredients. I learned about ingredients and I became really passionate about that. I mean, that’s why I garden today.

So yeah, I was humbled. I was humbled right before I got into the public sphere. And so I actually look back on it quite fondly and I think it kept me away from a lot of the vanity that comes with politics and publicity. Because I know it can just, just like that, be taken away from me.

SHAWN RYAN: Man. Wow. So he took you at your lowest point and exploited it all over the internet.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And then I shared it with everybody. I was like, “I’ve got worse pictures.” I mean, I was sick. I don’t know. I guess you can go around and find people when they have cancer and lose their hair and put them on a Time magazine. I was very sick, but I’m really proud of it. It’s such a weird thing, but I shared it myself. And so I think what happened was a lot of times with his team, they just look for things on the internet and they’re trying to be fast and respond, and they didn’t know where the source of that photo was. And it was me. I shared it back when I first entered into politics and talked about a tough time in my life.

And yeah, I’m still just very proud of it and gratefully, thank God I got everything back— not just my brain. My hair came back, my skin cleared. And yeah, I’m very grateful.

Life Story: Growing Up

SHAWN RYAN: Well, I want to do a life story on you. Actually, one more thing. Everybody gets a gift.

CANDACE OWENS: What am I getting? I feel like everybody gives a gift, but I don’t have a life that’s cool enough to match all these gifts. I actually love gummy bears. Are these actually Elite? Yeah, they are Elite gummy bears. Oh yeah, because you can’t put Vigilance Elite gummy bears on here if they’re not Elite.

SHAWN RYAN: They’re Elite. Okay, rip them open.

CANDACE OWENS: I’m going to have one. I’ll be the judge of that.

SHAWN RYAN: All right.

CANDACE OWENS: All right, here we go. I love gummy bears.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: I’m going to— ooh, they smell really good. I will say that. They actually smell really good. I love gummy bears. Of course I went with red.

SHAWN RYAN: What do you think?

CANDACE OWENS: I’m not just saying this because I’m on your show. They are really good. Why are they good?

SHAWN RYAN: Well, because they’re made in the USA.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s it. America, baby.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s right.

CANDACE OWENS: 250 years of elite gummy bears.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, yeah. But all right, Candace, I want to do a life story on you, and then towards the end we’ll get into all the stuff you’ve been digging into for about the past year or two. So where’d you grow up?

CANDACE OWENS: So I was born in New York, in White Plains. That’s actually where my mother grew up mostly, and she went to high school there. So a lot of my family’s in that area— Rye, White Plains area. And then I went to school and had my formative years in Stamford, Connecticut, which is just kind of outside of the city. It’s kind of like if you have a job in the city and want to live in the suburbs, you move to Greenwich, Stamford, New Canaan, Fairfield County area.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay. How many siblings do you have?

CANDACE OWENS: 3. I have a brother and I have 2 sisters.

SHAWN RYAN: What did your parents do?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, my dad was a plumber growing up and my mother worked at a chiropractic facility, sort of as the manager and did a lot of the billing for them.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay. You guys tight?

CANDACE OWENS: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: Tight family?

CANDACE OWENS: Yes. My parents are divorced, so I mean, I guess you’d have to ask independently about everybody’s relationships. But my siblings and I, we are very close. You have to have people, especially in the life that I live, who really deeply know you. And so every morning I would get up, when I work out, call my sisters and talk about everything. My little sister, right now she’s saving up some extra money for her wedding. And so she’s actually helping me right now, like sort through the tips box.

We weren’t close growing up though. Me and my sisters, we’re each a year and a half apart. So we just bludgeoned each other over everything pretty much.

SHAWN RYAN: Where do you fall in the lineup?

CANDACE OWENS: In the middle. Can’t you tell? Can’t you tell? Middle child syndrome, it’s a thing. It’s a real thing. Shout out to everyone who’s a middle child in the world right now.

Childhood and Growing Up

SHAWN RYAN: What were you into as a kid? What did you like to do?

CANDACE OWENS: I was always really into dance, coordinating dances. I was very sporty. I think I took after my mom in that way. My mother played basketball and cheerlead when she was in high school. She didn’t finish high school— my mother’s a high school dropout— but when she was in high school, she was very athletic. And so I kind of took after my mom in that way. So I did cheer in high school, I did track and field.

And we moved into my grandfather’s house when I was 8 years old. I was just like a granddaddy’s girl. I was obsessed with my grandfather, and he just was always doing stuff in the backyard— one of those old school guys. I think of my grandfather as having car grease on his hands. That’s what makes me think of my granddad— car oil on his hands. His hands were always blackened and he always had a cloth and was wiping them, and somehow always had cash in his pocket and would give me and my sisters cash.

And I was always just kind of fluffing around in the yard with my grandpa, like in the woods doing stuff. So my sisters and I were like cutting worms, climbing trees. I was definitely a tomboy. I just liked to be outside. Which I think is very new to this generation where everything’s behind a screen. But we were active. We were very active. Jump roping, bike riding. Granddad taught me how to ride a bike. I remember the day it happened. Yeah, I loved being outside.

SHAWN RYAN: Why did you move in with your grandparents at age 8?

CANDACE OWENS: Because we were poor. So my—

SHAWN RYAN: Did your parents move in with you?

CANDACE OWENS: Yes. And the house was too small for all of us to fit into it, but we made it work. My grandfather came to the apartment that we were living in, which was in this really sort of dilapidated building, and it had roaches. You’re not aware of those things so much when you’re a kid. And so we just knew that every— maybe it was once a month, I couldn’t even tell you, maybe it was less or more— but we’d have to sort of take all the pots and pans out of the cabinets because the exterminator would have to come and spray because there were roaches.

And that’s not— my mother kept a very clean apartment actually, but it doesn’t matter in those sorts of environments. You live like your neighbors live. And so my grandfather just came and said, “I don’t want my grandbabies growing up like this,” because he worked really hard in his life. He started on a sharecropping farm and ended where he did. When my grandfather died, he went back and actually purchased the sharecropping farm in the South.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

Grandparents’ Influence and Early Life

CANDACE OWENS: That’s where he retired. But he was living up north at that time in Connecticut and they had a middle-class house and he just said, I don’t want my grandbabies to grow up like this. So we moved into their house. And my sister and I lived in the attic, kind of. He put carpet down in the attic and turned it into a room, which I thought was so cool because I used to love the show Hey Arnold! and Hey Arnold! had like an attic too. It’s a very, very good show.

My mother and father were in the basement, so we just had to kind of all fit in the house. And it was the best thing I think that could have happened for my life. It’s the single greatest thing that probably changed my life is moving in with my grandparents and sort of being under my grandfather’s patriarchy, if you will.

SHAWN RYAN: Is he still alive?

CANDACE OWENS: No, my granddad passed a couple of years ago. It’s really hard.

SHAWN RYAN: Has he seen the rise of Candace?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, granddad. There was one of these really viral moments where I went to go testify at Congress and my granddad was behind me. It’s a great clip. And when Ted Lieu says something — I think he played a clip of me and tried to imply that I supported Adolf Hitler or something. And you see my granddad in the back, he’s like, “No, she did not say that. No, she did not say that.” And I was like, granddad was going to get up and give Ted Lieu a beatdown. Nobody talks to his grandbaby like that. Ted Lieu, calm down.

I’m so happy that that was captured on camera because shortly after that, his mind started to go. And his memory started to go. And so it’s just one of those last memories that I have of my granddad. He was always behind me, whether it was teaching me how to ride a bike and letting go, or behind me in Congress. My grandparents were just absolutely amazing.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow. What would you say to them if you were here today?

CANDACE OWENS: I got to say everything I needed to say to my granddad.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s good. Good for you.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Because my grandmother died unexpectedly, and so I made a very conscious decision to slow down and make sure that I got to say everything to my granddad. He knows how much I loved him.

SHAWN RYAN: Good for you.

Growing Up: Structure, Work Ethic, and Family

SHAWN RYAN: So you’re with your grandparents all the way through high school?

CANDACE OWENS: Until 10th grade. And then we kind of moved into a condo. But all of my formative years are with my grandparents always being around. It was wake up in the morning, granddad made breakfast, my grandmother would make dinner. My grandfather just had a lot of rules for us to follow because he grew up in the South and it was just very structured. And my work ethic comes from my grandfather without question. He had a job since he was 5 years old, like laying out tobacco to dry on a sharecropping farm. So he just got after the day every day.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

SHAWN RYAN: How old were you when your parents got divorced?

CANDACE OWENS: 23.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, 23.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. My mom and my dad were just one of those couples— they got married in ’93, so they got married after I was born, and then there was just a lot of fighting. It wasn’t one of those good relationships. And then when we were all out of the house, they called and said that they were getting a divorce. And at that point I remember saying to my dad, “No, no, no, no, no. Now you guys should stay together. Now it should be until death do you part. Now that we’re out of the house, you’re going to separate?” I remember exactly where I was walking, exactly which street I was walking on in New York State when I got the call.

And yeah, it was an interesting thing because I got to see in my house two totally different examples of how to live. My grandparents were very conservative, and my grandfather met my grandmother when he was 17, and they stayed married until her dying day. And then I had the opposite example, where the generation beneath my grandparents, despite how they had raised them, they were just so different. Like, all of my dad’s siblings had been divorced. It was a new culture.

And I remember when granddad got sick, or started getting sick, I was helping him fix up his house, and we talked about it. And I was like, how do people who are raised so conservatively kind of have more liberal viewpoints on marriage? And my granddad said something, and he was right. It’s just the way he delivered it, which is so funny. But he just said, “You know, it was those darn hippies.” He just says the hippies ruined everything. And it’s a valid point. I’ve done some research, and I’m like, granddad was right. They kind of brought in this sort of sex, love, rock and roll, love who you love. Everything became so much more temporal. And I am just so my grandfather’s child, like my viewpoints. I’m going backward. Everybody wants to be progressive. I’m like, I want to be regressive. I want some of that stuff that granddad had.

Childhood Ambitions

SHAWN RYAN: What did you want to be as a child? What did you want to become? Occupation?

CANDACE OWENS: What was the first thing I wanted to be? An archaeologist.

SHAWN RYAN: An archaeologist.

CANDACE OWENS: Yes, I was really into— as soon as I learned about Egypt, I had this weird fascination with Egypt. I remember in third grade just wanting to be like, oh, when I grow up, I want to be an archaeologist. That was my first thing I can remember wanting to be. And then, appropriately, I then was convinced I was going to be a lawyer. I wanted to be a lawyer. I would have made a really good lawyer.

SHAWN RYAN: You still would.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s never too late.

SHAWN RYAN: It would probably come in handy for you.

CANDACE OWENS: It would. I actually kind of feel like I am a lawyer in many ways. I get sued so much and I really enjoy talking to my lawyer. He’s just become such a friend. I love to read the documents. I made a whole series on the Blake Lively case. I do have a love for legal work, but I don’t have to be sued to love it. I have to get that straight in my mind. You don’t have to be sued to appreciate law.

Lawsuits and Legal Battles

SHAWN RYAN: How many times do you think you’ve been sued?

CANDACE OWENS: Too many. In the last few years it’s been a lot, man. I feel like The Daily Wire was like 3 episodes that happened, which felt like a lot. And then I have obviously the Brigitte one, which was a lot. And then I got pulled into the Blake Lively one, which isn’t really like being involved. And then they tried to pull me into some Kanye one. Not being the person who was sued.

And so I just kind of got familiar with the people that were serving the paperwork. They’re great guys, by the way, the servers. They’re fantastic. They show up on like motorcycles like, “We love you, and we’re going to charge the other guys more.” They’re amazing. They’re absolutely amazing.

And then this Brian Harpole one — I’m being sued because of your show. I should sue you. Brian Harpole’s lawyer, I’m going to drag you into my lawsuit.

SHAWN RYAN: We have a running— every time the FedEx truck drives around here, we’re like, “Oh f*, here it comes.” I don’t even open them anymore, I just send them to—

CANDACE OWENS: So funny. Yeah, well, when Brian Harpole sued me, his lawyer wrote this amazing story which just made entirely no sense, where he said that— basically they were trying to make the argument that he’s not a public figure, which is very important. You have to establish in defamation, are you a public figure or are you a private person? And obviously he made himself a public figure by going on this podcast and interjecting himself into this Charlie narrative.

So they were trying to argue that he’s not a public figure, and he basically said he was forced to become a public figure because of me. I’m the reason he went on the— he had to go on the Shawn Ryan Show to clear his name, and I never covered him on my show once, never spoke his name on my show before he went on your show.

SHAWN RYAN: Hold on, he’s claiming he came here to counter your narrative?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: But you weren’t talking about him.

CANDACE OWENS: Never said one word about him or the security apparatus because I knew them and my mind just wasn’t there at all until he did your interview. And it was so disastrous in my view, and I think also the view of all the people who watched it according to the comments. There was just something off about it and I went, whoa, he’s answering questions weird. The stuff that he’s saying doesn’t really make sense.

But that’s their argument they’re trying to make because they’re trying to get the court to see him as a private figure who only had to come out and do the Shawn Ryan Show — one of the biggest podcasts in the world — to defend himself against me. And I’m like, well, that’s going to be a tricky argument considering I never spoke about you ever on my show until you did the Shawn Ryan Show.

SHAWN RYAN: So wait a minute. What exactly— he’s what?

CANDACE OWENS: It’s crazy.

SHAWN RYAN: What is he suing you for?

The Lawsuit Against Brian Harpole

CANDACE OWENS: Defamation, which is difficult for me to comprehend because it’s so in the category of opinion. Like, the first 3 pages of a lawsuit, he’s just kind of calling me an anti-Semite, and I don’t know what that has to do with the lawsuit at all. He’s not Jewish, last I checked. Neither is Charlie Kirk.

But he then moves on by saying that I defamed him because I said that the security team was incompetent. And so he’s blaming me for a loss of revenue to his business because I said he’s incompetent. Now, I would generally say, if you have a business and your job is to provide security and your client dies on the job, that might be the reason you’re not getting many clients. I’m not saying I’m a genius, but I don’t think people will be lining up to hire the same security people that guarded Charlie Kirk on September 10th.

But he thinks it’s actually because of me calling him, among many other things, calling him incompetent, asking questions about why they didn’t have people on the rooftop that day, saying that the support they supplied to Charlie’s neck was inadequate. I mean, just things that you can see with your own eyes as they’re handing him to the car. As they’re holding him to the car, him saying on your show that they didn’t provide CPR because he had to stop the bleeding. I have questions about that. If your heart stops, what’s it matter if you stop the bleeding? So I’m going to stand by my assessment that he was incompetent.

And then the second chunk of his lawsuit is his — defamation per se might be his argument — because I asked about whether he was at Fort Huachuca because somebody believes they saw him at Fort Huachuca on the 9th. But he admits in a lawsuit that I texted him 4 times asking him just to say yes or no so I could just very quickly say, “Oh, I’ve reached out to him, he said it wasn’t him.” But his reason for why he didn’t answer me despite me trying to just get an answer, and why he decided to just instead sue me — what was his bizarre legal reason for why he just didn’t answer any of my questions? I think he said, “Oh, he didn’t want me to get famous off of him.” I promise you, this is his argument — that the reason he didn’t answer, he didn’t want me to get famous off of him, that I was just going to use it for clicks. So if he had answered me and said, “No, I wasn’t at Fort Huachuca,” then I would have used it for clicks, and he didn’t want me to use him for clicks. So that is the thrust of the lawsuit.

SHAWN RYAN: So what does he want? Is he suing you for money?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, he wants money, to be determined by a jury, because his business has been affected.

SHAWN RYAN: So this s* is actually going to court.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh yeah. Which I’m really okay with because a lot of the questions that we’re just trying to get answered, we can now force him to answer them and bring other people in too to sit down for deposition.

SHAWN RYAN: So do you have a court date?

CANDACE OWENS: Not yet. We still have to — actually, don’t quote me on that. I have to check in with my lawyers. We might have — I think we have something coming up where we have to file our response, like the next coming weeks or something.

SHAWN RYAN: Where will it happen?

CANDACE OWENS: Here.

SHAWN RYAN: Here in Nashville?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. He’s got to sue me here. This is where I defamed him apparently. So I didn’t know. Did he tell you he was like really felt like he had to do the show because of me? It’s very strange.

SHAWN RYAN: We didn’t — I didn’t get that.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, it would have been weird because I never talked about him. So, “Hey, can I come on because of Candace not talking about me?” It’s weird. It’s totally wacky. It feels like a PR move to me, to be honest with you.

SHAWN RYAN: But do you think it’ll go the distance, or you think they’ll just drop suit?

CANDACE OWENS: I think they filed it in such a sloppy manner that they’re hoping the court drops it, and then they can say, “Well, we tried, we were telling the truth.” And there is a lot of that in the court system where people file for PR reasons. I mean, Brigitte is a perfect example of that — where you’re doing something that you kind of know you can’t win in court, but it allows you to then say, “Well, we really tried and obviously we must have been telling the truth or we wouldn’t have sued.”

And that’s not the case. I have not changed my mind about Brian Harpole and I was very thorough in trying to just get him to give me a response. Like I would have happily taken a response from him and he still hasn’t offered one. He just sued me.

SHAWN RYAN: Do they have any other clients?

CANDACE OWENS: I don’t know. Since it was just the initial filing, we haven’t gotten into the details of who’s not booking him or if someone dropped him. But that would just to me seem like common sense, especially when you say — I mean, if you watched his interview with you, you wouldn’t book him, just the presentation.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, I’m just curious.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: What did the defamation do? Is he still working for TPUSA?

CANDACE OWENS: My understanding is he’s not still working for Turning Point USA. And I did hear through the grapevine that they sent him a cease and desist after all of the flack that he got for his various appearances, things that he was saying that was just making things worse because he doesn’t sound honest when he speaks. He’s not clear and he’s also dishonest.

I mean, even when I was watching your show, and that was one of the reasons we covered it, was because we instantly learned — he presented those messages when you asked him about the rooftop. He shows these messages and then he says, “What am I supposed to do with that?” The implication being that this is a conversation he was having, but it wasn’t. He was showing you Dan Flood’s text messages. So that was strange and dishonest.

And the discussion wasn’t even about Losey Center. The discussion was about the walkway above Charlie. So it seemed like even when he was on the show, he was focused on PR, but he just wasn’t very convincing. And that’s literally in the lawsuit — that I described him as not very convincing. And that’s defamatory.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s defamatory.

CANDACE OWENS: And I stand by it. He wasn’t very convincing.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah. I probably should have pressed him more. I just — I f*ing felt bad though. I mean, it was still really fresh and the guy’s tearing up. I’ve been around a lot of loss in my previous career. And so I wanted to be respectful.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: You know what I mean?

CANDACE OWENS: But yeah, I think you did the right thing actually, because even though the viewers might feel frustration, the reality is that if you had put him under the light, so to speak, he would have clammed up, and we benefited a lot from him just speaking. I’m still benefiting from him just speaking in other parts of that conversation that are being pulled and discussed. Certainly for my lawsuit’s sake, it’s beneficial that he kept describing things in detail. And so I think it was good to sort of let him talk.

Inconsistencies in the Stories

SHAWN RYAN: What are some of the other gems that you pulled out of my interview with Brian Harpole?

CANDACE OWENS: I mean, I think at some point — I think it was your interview, it might have been someone else’s — where he said that when he got to the hospital and he’s directing the staff or whatever, he said that he cut off Charlie’s shirt. I mean, that’s just fantasy. That’s full fantasy. That’s not how that happens. Everybody knows that. When you get to the ER and somebody is on a stretcher, some random guy who’s bringing the person in doesn’t start calling the shots in the hospital.

So there’s a lot of questions about what took place at the hospital, why Kash Patel moved to have the cameras — as one of the first acts — get the cameras down inside of the hospital. It’s very strange, the varying stories that they’ve all told about what took place, why they were all then wearing scrubs. Frank Turek saying that he was on the phone the whole time and didn’t realize — who’s Frank Turek? Frank Turek was another one of the people that was in the car.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

CANDACE OWENS: And he’s former military. He was there and jumped in the car with them. By the way, that’s even weird. I don’t know why he jumped in the car with him, to be honest with you. And he was at the hospital, and he tells conflicting stories and says that they did perform CPR. It’s all just very strange. It just seems like — why are all of your stories running into each other?

SHAWN RYAN: How are those running into each other? What do they say? Some people are saying they did give him CPR, some are saying they didn’t.

CANDACE OWENS: Brian said they did not perform CPR because they were focused on stopping the bleeding. Frank said that they did perform CPR. Brian said that Frank was just in the back seat praying. Frank said that he got involved, which is the reason why he had all the blood on him or whatever. So the discrepancy between the people that are in the car doesn’t really make sense.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, do you give CPR to somebody that’s been shot in the f*ing neck?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, if you don’t keep someone’s heart going, it doesn’t matter, right? Like nothing else matters if your heart stops pumping. So yeah, you would give CPR, I would imagine. You keep CPR going at all times. I’m certainly not a medical professional, but I do know that if your heart stops, you’re dead. So you got to keep the heart going. And them not having the ambulance on standby —

SHAWN RYAN: I’m not standing up for him. I don’t know if that’s — I don’t know if you would do CPR.

CANDACE OWENS: What would be the point — if your heart’s not going, your heart’s not going. And by the way, I’m not even saying what was right or what was wrong to do.

SHAWN RYAN: And the stories are —

CANDACE OWENS: I’m saying the stories are not consistent, and that’s what has been so troublesome for people that are investigating this. Why do you guys all have different stories? Why are there so many lies that have since been unpacked? They said a lot in the beginning, and they’ve since pivoted on their stories quite a bit.

The Crime Scene Is Repaved

SHAWN RYAN: Why do you think that they repaved that thing? How many days afterwards?

CANDACE OWENS: By Sunday they had a person coming. So Charlie got shot at 12:23 on a Wednesday, and they had early morning on Sunday pavers come in. And even before then, they had the soil removed by a separate group of people.

SHAWN RYAN: They had the soil removed?

CANDACE OWENS: The soil removed first. 10 inches of soil removed first.

SHAWN RYAN: Do they do that at any other murder scene anywhere?

CANDACE OWENS: Absolutely not.

SHAWN RYAN: The soil removed? Why the f* would they have the soil —

CANDACE OWENS: Well, their excuse is, “We were putting down pavers.” So it is normal to remove soil to put down pavers. But why were you putting down pavers? Why were you paving over the crime scene? And in that scenario, from somebody that is in that space, they said that about 8 inches you would remove so that you can install the pavers. They removed 10 inches of soil and they had 2 separate people do it. So they had people working for the government that removed the 10 inches of soil, and the next day the pavers came in and put in the pavers. That’s not normal. You have the same group of people that do both.

So they wanted — they had the dirt removed first. And so we’d have to imagine that that happened Saturday at the latest, right? Because then by Sunday morning, the guy who had to put together a ragtag team to do the paving, he did an interview and spoke about it and said he was told that the instructions were coming down from the governor of Utah and Kash Patel’s office.

The Theory Behind Charlie’s Death

SHAWN RYAN: Probably the guy that would have been in the soil.

CANDACE OWENS: I’ve taken a long time to get to a place where I wanted to put forth a theory on what happened that day. I think there is a lot of evidence that they would have found explosives, which, if I guess the way PETN is said is like— when you guys say pent—

SHAWN RYAN: Petton.

CANDACE OWENS: Petton. I’m trying to learn all the inside terms and sound like I know what I’m talking about on all the military guy stuff. But if Petton was the explosive that was used, and I think there is a strong, strong theory that should be explored, that a shaped charge was used to kill him and that what killed him was on him. If you look into Petton, it is pretty resistant. It stays on soil.

SHAWN RYAN: It—

CANDACE OWENS: There you can read tons of articles about it. It’s— you just have to remove the soil.

SHAWN RYAN: So you think that they—

CANDACE OWENS: I think there was explosives. I think that explains, as I was unpacking on my show, a lot of the holes in the story that didn’t make sense. If you run the theory that he was killed with a PETN-shaped charge, then they all suddenly start to make sense. Why they wouldn’t bring the bomb dogs over to where Charlie died.

The Shaped Charge Theory

SHAWN RYAN: I can’t remember what this guy’s name is, but my editor— you were just chatting with him— he brought it to my attention. He was chatting with this guy right after it happened, so almost a year ago. I just never know what— so many f*ing people are trying to get clicks and shit, you know what I mean? That I’m like, I don’t think it adds up. And he would describe how it was going to work or how it supposedly worked. And yeah, it was shaped charge inside the microphone, right?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: And they had all these videos that show the blast and everything, but I don’t know what’s AI and what isn’t. I don’t f*ing believe anything unless it’s literally right in front of my face. Then I still don’t believe most of it. But the thing that really got me was to have a microphone on a loose shirt when he’s up in a chair, moving around. It just—

CANDACE OWENS: Mic on the inside, by the way.

SHAWN RYAN: Mic on the inside?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, the mic is on the microphone, which is totally senseless.

SHAWN RYAN: Wait, was it taped to his chest?

CANDACE OWENS: What you see on the outside is the magnet that’s holding the mic that’s on the inside, which— like any person who mics, you know, you don’t put the mic on the inside because you get the sound. And they were putting it on the inside. Like, you might do that if it’s a super windy day or cold day to avoid—

SHAWN RYAN: I thought it was that f*ing new DJI mic that everybody’s using.

CANDACE OWENS: No, it’s a Røde mic, a Røde Mic Pro. So that’s just the magnetic clasp that’s on the outside.

SHAWN RYAN: They put it on the inside.

CANDACE OWENS: Which they started doing. It was a new thing that they were doing.

SHAWN RYAN: And so, how long have you been tracking this?

Candace’s Investigation: Piecing Together the Evidence

CANDACE OWENS: How long had I been tracking the microphone thing? I always tried to approach things with just what do I observe with my own eyes. And when I brought myself to being able to watch the footage of Charlie dying, the first thing I thought was that he was shot from below. Because I watched his shirt go out, and I watched the friction of his body, and I saw that his necklace broke before he was hit. I thought that was so strange. I was like, somebody explain to me why, if someone shot him from above, his necklace would break first and whip this way, because the necklace whips this way, and then he gets hit. And I was like, so I just, in my head, assuming that it was a gun, was like, I think someone was under him. Like, that’s the only thing that would explain his shirt doing whatever.

And then I saw John Bray, who you’re referring to. He was online and he was talking about this explosive. I saw that and I was like, in my head, with my limited knowledge on what he was speaking about, I went, oh well, it’s not going to be explosive, because then if it was a bomb, Charlie would have been burned and charred. And I knew that his body was not burned and charred. But I kept following him.

And what happened was we got exclusively the car photos— the car that transported Charlie to the hospital, what that car looked like— which they tried very quickly to get rid of. They towed it, had it sent to be cleaned and resold, which is also absolute nonsense. That car would have been put into evidence. But when I saw the car pics, the first thing I said was, “Oh, that’s so weird. Why is there black glass on the floor?” Right away, just a ton of what looked to my eye as glass shards on the floor.

And John Bray messaged me on X. He said, “I just watched your episode. That’s exactly what I was looking for to support my theory.” And then I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “I’ve been saying that his Røde mic was rigged, but in order for my theory to be true, the Røde mic would have had to explode into a million pieces, and that would have been on Charlie, and they would have had to get that off of him in the car.”

And so I went, well, I have the car photos, and there’s very clearly— now, to play devil’s advocate, as I always try to do, could it have been somebody’s sunglasses they stepped on that broke into a million pieces? It looks— it’s a lot of glass. It’s in the seat that Charlie was on. It’s behind— it’s hard plastic, ABS plastic I think it’s called. And if you watch videos of people just smashing a Røde mic, that’s exactly what it looks like littered all over the floor.

So now we have to say, why did his necklace break first, then his Røde mic break second? And we’re looking at a trajectory, right, before he gets hit. And you do see it move across. Like, if you watch the video again, without trying to be an expert— if you just sometimes look at a video and say, “What do you see? Slow it down. What do you observe happening?”— you observe something moving across his chest, and then suddenly you see a wound here. And that was my starting point.

Doubts About the Official Narrative

And so I never bought the idea that somebody shot him from a rooftop. That made no sense to me. That nobody saw him shoot him is even crazier to me. This is a college campus in the middle of the day. Somebody would have seen him take a shot.

And then what added to me thinking this is now very plausible was the 30-06 Superman neck, you know. Now you’re asking us to be idiots. Now the demand is for us to be idiots. And they did it in such an emotionally manipulative, despicable way, which has now become the Turning Point way, which is the “just say God.” The Lord, the miracle, the— and if you don’t believe in it, then you don’t believe in God, and you’re not honoring God if you don’t believe in the miracle of this.

Candace’s Grief and Growing Suspicions About Erika

This was the biggest lie that Erika told me and completely transformed my opinion of her. You think you know— I sat down with her for 4 hours. I was reticent to explore any conspiracies about her. I was slow to do it because, first and foremost, she’s the mother of Charlie’s kids. That’s first and foremost. Secondly, it required me to have to go through a second stage of grief that I was not ready to do. I had a very hard time with Charlie’s death, still do.

To be the person that Charlie was speaking to so much about how much he wanted love— when I had to take time off and just go to Wyoming and try to get my head right after it, I read through all of our messages, and I relived it all. Because I was in a phase of denial. I was really at that phase where I was hoping, and I went through bargaining, I went through anger, I went through a very aggressive stage of denial. And I think my husband was realizing that I needed to get away at that point because I was trying to say like, “No, maybe he’s really alive, you know, maybe they put him in witness protection.” Like, that’s that bargaining and then also the denial that’s just in my face.

And when I got out there and I was reading the messages— before she came into his life— Charlie just really, really, really wanted love. That was like it. And it was almost poetic, the stuff that he was writing about how love could kind of make men move mountains. And so for me to have to mourn him and then have to consider that the thing that he wanted most— he didn’t get it. It just gutted me. It gutted me.

But I couldn’t deny it anymore. I couldn’t deny it. And it was beyond intuition. It was beyond her being weird. It was beyond her being at the office. And then I got the Zoom calls. My assumption was that she was grieving like I was. I didn’t know she was in the office the next week. As soon as she got back, she just went straight to the office.

SHAWN RYAN: And she was in the office the next week? Yep.

CANDACE OWENS: As soon as she gave that speech at the podium that you saw where she addressed the nation— not the “I forgive him” speech, but like the first one that was like 48 hours after he died— she was in the office that whole week.

Erika’s Behavior After Charlie’s Death

SHAWN RYAN: I’ll be honest, when I saw the funeral— is that what we’re calling it? Like posting Instagram stories or whatever it was of her rubbing his dead body— I was like, “What the f* is this, dude? What is that?”

CANDACE OWENS: Yep.

SHAWN RYAN: And then using your dead husband as a f*ing social media post.

CANDACE OWENS: And beyond that, and again, me ignoring it, ignoring all of it. And then it was just— actually, on the day that your husband gets shot, you didn’t have a single one of your family members go with you? Not one family member or friend went with Erika to Utah.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

The Suspicious Circumstances Around Charlie Kirk’s Death

CANDACE OWENS: She went with the person that’s holding her in the photo when his body’s coming off the Air Force One. Could you imagine not having your mom, your brother, your sister, your cousin, your best friend— I don’t know, your A1 since day one from high school with you when that goes down? No.

She was in every single one of those videos with the head fundraiser of Turning Point USA. The person holding her, hugging her, crying— that’s Stacy Sheridan. She’s a chief fundraiser. Stacy Sheridan is the one recording her while she’s in the casket. No one can make that make sense. You cannot tell me a thousand times that you would not have a family member, a cousin, a brother, somebody other than just all Turning Point people.

And mind you, the vice president is offering to fly over whoever you want. So this isn’t like, “Oh, we couldn’t get to Utah.” Your family will crawl over glass to get to you. You go through something like that, and she didn’t have anybody. Not her aunts, not nobody. Just Stacy Sheridan recording all of those private moments.

And again, those were the things— I mean, I think I just assumed that her family was there. I assumed because Charlie’s family was there. His sister was there, his mother was there, his brother was there. His mother and father were there. She just had Mama Stacy, as I call it, which is the woman who’s all about raising money. And when did you guys get so close? You don’t need anybody else for emotional support here.

So you’re correct, that was intentionally recorded for us to raise money at the end of the day. But the lie that she told that I couldn’t get over was when she lied about the 30-06. And she—

SHAWN RYAN: What did she lie about that? What did she say?

The Back Footage and the Cover-Up

CANDACE OWENS: So what we thought happened— and I think I single-handedly ruined the plan, so to speak. What happened was— my eyes, when I was watching the event, as someone who had gone on tour with Charlie every single year since 2017— ’17, ’18, ’19, ’20, ’21, ’22, up until 2024, which is the first time they started doing this double mic thing on him, right? The fall of 2024.

As I’m going, “Why is Terrell there?” It’s the first thing I drew my eye. It was like, “Why is the head of audiovisual here? He doesn’t come on campus events. This is new.” And then I see that he’s taking the camera down, and I’m like, “That’s weird.” And the internet’s going crazy about this. I’m like, “Well, Terrell’s been there for 12 years, maybe longer. I know, I’m just going to call him and ask him what’s up.” Maybe there’s a reason. And I assumed he was going to say something like, “The police asked me to. I don’t know, you want to see the footage?”

Instead, he was the first person that made me realize something was very wrong because he was very nervous on the phone. I asked if I could see the back footage just to clarify with people— looking out for you, Terrell— I can tell them what’s going on. And his energy was just completely wrong. He came up with a million excuses why I couldn’t see the back footage. He told me he didn’t know how to send a file. I’m like, “Terrell, you run an audiovisual company, you know how to send a file.”

Then he told me, “Oh yeah, I do know how to send a file. But I’m afraid Google’s going to hack me if I send it.” And I said, “Google’s going to hack you if you send me the file of the back footage?” And I didn’t accept that, obviously. And then he said, “Well, I grabbed the camera for Erika so that she wouldn’t have to relive her husband dying over and over again.” And I said, “His death was livestreamed. Everyone saw Charlie die. The back footage is not going to be anything.”

So I knew something was wrong with the back footage. And I kept pressing him for 2 days, and finally he said, “Well, I’ll FaceTime you and show you it.” And I hit record on the FaceTime. I just didn’t know— just my instincts. And someone on my team was like, “You should record this.” And I recorded it.

And the first thing I thought that was so strange was there was no blood. The bullet didn’t go through. There was no blood. Charlie’s shirt was crisp white from the moment he went down. And I went, “That’s odd.”

So at that moment, I recorded it, hung up with him, and told my audience what I saw. And there was apparently mass panic, which I now know how the full story went.

The Day of the Funeral

This was the day of Charlie’s actual funeral— not the WWE memorial events, but the actual funeral, which was the night before. And they panicked that I had seen the footage. And somebody at the FBI called Turning Point and asked explicitly to Justin Streif whether or not I had recorded it.

At that point, Justin Streiff, who is the COO of Turning Point USA, messaged my husband, called my husband, and wanted to know whether or not I had recorded it. My husband has no idea what he’s talking about. He runs the business. He’s like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” He then comes out to me and says, “Justin Streiff keeps asking if you recorded this footage. What’s he talking about?” And instantly in my mind I said, “That’s a really weird question. Why does it matter if I recorded the footage?” And I said, “Don’t answer him, I’ll deal with it.”

And then what happened— this is all happening on the day of Charlie’s actual funeral. No one should be caring about back footage, anything. Why is the FBI calling?

What then happened was Erika peeled off from Charlie’s actual funeral, his wife, and she called the surgeon with Andrew Kolvet on the phone— a three-way call. And the story that Andrew would then write— because then he tweeted on the day of Charlie’s funeral and said, “People want to know why there was no blood,” and then the surgeon says that it was a miracle. And you remember this ridiculous tweet? “Charlie ate really healthy, and this normally would have taken down a moose, but he really was the Man of Steel, and this is like a modern-day Christian miracle.” Total slop for the masses.

And everyone then went, “What the eff? It didn’t go through? You’re confirming this didn’t go through? Something’s wrong here, right?”

When I asked Erika about this— and I didn’t know about this thing that happened at the funeral— I asked her, “Why did Andrew send this tweet?” And she said to me, “He went rogue. I didn’t know he sent the tweet.” I said, “Andrew went rogue and called the surgeon?” She said, “Yeah.” I said, “The surgeon spoke to Andrew without your permission?” And she said, “Yeah.”

I said, “So the surgeon to the highest profile assassination since JFK violated HIPAA, went rogue, spoke to some random PR guy he doesn’t know, who also went rogue. And then at the conclusion of this conversation, Andrew tweeted something without your permission and went rogue again?” And she said, “Yeah.”

And then I got the information that she completely lied.

SHAWN RYAN: How’d you figure that out?

The Surgeon Call and the “Man of Steel” Explanation

CANDACE OWENS: A source. That she was the one who initiated the phone call, and Andrew was on it, and that the surgeon never said what was put online. In fact, that’s largely embarrassing to a surgeon because you’re saying he violated HIPAA. And he’s an idiot— “It’s a modern-day miracle.” Not only that, but it’s not the surgeon’s job.

So what happened was she said to the surgeon, allegedly, “How can we explain to people that the 30-06 didn’t go through?” And the surgeon doesn’t know anything about whether a 30-06— he is a hunter, he hunts. And he said, “I don’t know, maybe it was a frangible bullet or something. I have no idea.” And he’s going off of them saying it was a 30-06.

And at that point, Erika offered an explanation and said, “Well, my baby, he ate so healthy, and I’m sure it’s like he had a Man of Steel neck because he ate so healthy.”

SHAWN RYAN: So wasn’t there a picture of Robinson standing at a Dairy Queen right in front of a poster that said “Man of Steel”?

CANDACE OWENS: Which actually was in theaters, so that was weird. But that quotation and that explanation came from Erika as she was trying to pull an excuse out of the surgeon— which somehow got elevated to the number one priority on the day of her husband’s actual funeral. They were stressed out that the public had learned that the bullet didn’t go through. Why would you be stressed out about that?

SHAWN RYAN: I would be mourning my wife— or my significant other. I wouldn’t be trying to— So what do you think is going on? I mean, who is Tyler Robinson? What the f* was he doing there?

Tyler Robinson: A Patsy?

CANDACE OWENS: I don’t—

SHAWN RYAN: What do you think is behind this?

CANDACE OWENS: I don’t think Tyler Robinson was there.

SHAWN RYAN: You don’t think he was there?

CANDACE OWENS: No. I think he’s a total patsy. I think they get lookalikes and they got everybody wearing the same outfit. I think he played a role, and I believe that what he did was he picked up clothes and dumped them behind the Dairy Queen. I think he had a role, but I do not believe that Tyler Robinson is the person who was walking in that staircase. I do not believe the person walking in the staircase was even the person that we saw running off of the roof.

I don’t even know what day that person was running off the roof because there’s only one eyewitness to him having been on the roof. The person who shared the video of the guy on the roof and was like, “Look up here, somebody just got up there”— I spoke to that individual and he never saw a shot fired, never said that he saw a shot fired, knows about weapons, and finds it really unusual that the prosecution hasn’t reached out to him.

So I don’t know what happened. I just know what didn’t happen, and I feel confident stating that Tyler Robinson did not murder Charlie Kirk. Whether or not he was an accessory to the crime— do I believe he was at Dairy Queen dropping off clothes? Yeah. How did he get mixed up in that?

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t know.

Lance Twiggs and the Federal Asset Theory

CANDACE OWENS: Maybe he was blackmailed. Maybe he got involved in some weird stuff online. That’s the easiest way for the feds to blackmail someone. I think his roommate is a federal asset— Lance Twiggs.

Do you think that because the police didn’t even question him, which is bonkers?

Yeah, Lance Twiggs.  I spoke to Lance Twiggs’ family, and they think he’s involved, and they don’t understand why the police just sat him down for a few hours and let him go. And they said he’s involved in a lot of bad stuff. He lived with them for a little bit, and he’s into weird categories of pornography as well. And so they were shocked that the police just never had any interest in Lance Twigs.

And he is crucial to the story that they’re trying to tell as the roommate. If they’re in a gay relationship and you’re dating him, you would have access to his guns, you could easily set up somebody that you’re dating. And that’s what my gut tells me— Lance Twiggs was a federal asset, is a federal asset.

Decoy Boy Number 1: George Zinn

SHAWN RYAN: Wasn’t there a guy that said he did it that was also at 9/11 or something?

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, I call him Decoy Boy Number 1— George Zinn.

SHAWN RYAN: What the f* is that?

CANDACE OWENS: So George Zinn instantly gets up, says he did it, his pants fall, and people are recording him. And it creates just a bit of a distraction. What I have on authority from the hospital that he went to after— he went to the hospital to get treated for some mild injuries— is that he told the nurses that he was paid to do it, but he didn’t know where the money was coming from.

SHAWN RYAN: And this guy was also in New York when 9/11 happened?

CANDACE OWENS: I don’t know if he was in New York, but he has some story about 9/11.

SHAWN RYAN: Some weird connection.

CANDACE OWENS: Some very weird connection. Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t know exactly what it is.

CANDACE OWENS: I can’t remember, but you’re correct. That’s what he told the nurses that day— that he was paid to do that, but he didn’t know who exactly was paying him. Just said he was going to be paid for that.

Was Kirk Killed Because He Went Against Israel?

SHAWN RYAN: Do you think he was killed because he was going against Israel?

CANDACE OWENS: 1,000%.

SHAWN RYAN: Why?

CANDACE OWENS: Hell, lots.

SHAWN RYAN: You go against Israel— why not you? Well, why are you still here?

Andrew Colbett’s Chilling Words and the Netanyahu Connection

CANDACE OWENS: I think if Andrew Kolvet is to be believed, you know, he told me it was supposed to be me, which was an interesting thing to say. What Andrew Kolvet said to me a few days after the assassination, and at the moment I just took it as poorly expressed grief, you know, because I didn’t find Andrew to be suspicious because I just didn’t— my mind wasn’t there. But he said to me on the phone, “It was supposed to be you,” verbatim.

SHAWN RYAN: Are you serious?

CANDACE OWENS: But I thought that was just— he was crying, I was crying.

SHAWN RYAN: I thought he legitimately said, “It was supposed to be you.” It was supposed to be you.

CANDACE OWENS: So I have questions about that now, given everything that happened in the lead-up to that. I think Charlie knew something. I think the biggest question that has not been answered in all of this is what happened at the Hamptons when Bibi Netanyahu called.

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t know about this.

CANDACE OWENS: So it was a couple of weeks before Charlie died. Well, August 5th and 6th, he did a summit at Bill Ackman’s house. Where, you know, Bill Ackman was kind of hosting a bunch of pro-Israel people, and Charlie was pressed on his view, his changing views. And he was pressed by Seth Dillon. Voices were raised, and he wanted to know why he’s not, you know, why you can’t criticize Bibi Netanyahu and not be called anti-Semitic.

There was a smaller dinner that took place and Bill Ackman, Erika was present and Bibi Netanyahu called. Now, what I was told directly from Andrew Kolvet, which Erika didn’t know that my source was Andrew Kolvet on this, she was surprised in person when I told her this, was that Bibi offered to take Turning Point USA to the next level, and Charlie said no.

In exchange for what? Also, how does an organization that’s pulling in $150 million a year— what is the next level? It’s a lot of money, $150 million a year. In exchange for what? Do you think he— in exchange for him pledging to preach free markets and capitalism? So at the moment that you refuse an offer from a man that deranged, that psychopathic, that bloodthirsty, you have much power. You know something.

SHAWN RYAN: You know, he obviously has an enormous amount of influence over the current administration.

CANDACE OWENS: Correct.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, enormous amount of influence. It’s pretty f*ing obvious. I think everybody’s seeing it.

The Netanyahu Call and What It Means

CANDACE OWENS: In exchange for what? “I’ll take your company to the next level.” Cool. What in exchange for what? I think it’s a trillion-dollar question. And Erika, when I asked her about that, and she admitted the Bibi Netanyahu call happened, that she was there, and she said, “Oh, he was just calling because Charlie had written him a letter in May.” And it’s just so stupid. So stupid. Oh, he’s not busy, he just was calling to say, “Hey, toodles, like, just wanted to know how you’re doing. I saw your letter, thanks for it.” He was just— I said, “That’s it?”

Okay, so I’m supposed to believe Andrew lied about that, that he offered to take it to the next level and she was coming to say no, that that didn’t happen, he just wanted to just check in with Charlie? That’s not true. She’s lying.

And I know she’s lying because then somebody in Andrew Kolvet‘s family orbit reached out to me and said that that definitively happened because Andrew said that when Charlie said no, he lost millions. Andrew Kolvet lost millions when Charlie said no. Now you wonder, how does a PR guy lose millions? He’s a spokesperson for Turning Point USA. And then I had to remind myself that he owns a piece of the Charlie Kirk Show, right?

So I don’t know if it was going to be via the Charlie Kirk Show, which was at that moment with Salem. Salem has recently filed under FARA. They’re working with Faith by Works and the whole thing, and Salem is a part of that filing. So they are effectively foreign agents. I don’t know how that money was going to come in. That’s another question that if we had any real journalists, they would be exploring that.

But yeah, Bibi Netanyahu calling and Charlie not just refusing it, but he had anger towards Bibi. He did. And how do you know? Because Bibi Netanyahu that month did a ton of shows. Very strange, by the way, that a prime minister of Israel was suddenly hitting the orbits doing PR. He did a ton of shows. I mean, Patrick Bet-David’s show, Brandon Tatum’s show, and he hadn’t before that done any sort of podcasting since he was like hawking his book, you know, like years ago.

He didn’t do Charlie Kirk’s show because Charlie didn’t want to have him on. Again, something told to me as a fact by Andrew Kolvet. Charlie refused to have Netanyahu on his show. So if you want to know how Charlie was feeling about Israel and Bibi Netanyahu, there’s your answer. How people couldn’t see the Israel threat in this doesn’t make any sense to me.

“It Was Supposed to Be You”

SHAWN RYAN: I can’t believe he said “It was supposed to be you.”

CANDACE OWENS: He did.

SHAWN RYAN: Does that scare you? I mean, you seem fearless.

CANDACE OWENS: We’re all here for a blip and I think it’s not about not having any fears. It’s about what scares me more, right? What scares me more is considering the world that our children will inherit if we stay quiet. Because we feel it right now. We feel the squeeze. We feel the evil. We feel the cloud. It’s there. And you have a bunch of people who, whether it’s for money or for fear, are allowing it to happen.

And there are so many historical lessons about what can happen to a country when good men do nothing. And so what scares me is thinking about what it’s going to be like in America when my children are my age, because I was too scared to say something when Charlie Kirk was publicly assassinated and the most powerful people in the country colluded to lie about it. If Charlie Kirk was not safe in the United States of America, nobody is. Nobody is.

Do you feel this is your responsibility to figure out what happened and to keep the investigation going? I don’t know if responsibility would be the word that I would use. I just know that it’s a part of my journey. I know that it’s not a coincidence that Charlie kept telling me he was going to die young, that he had really, really deep visions about his death in 2018. Very specific visions about the fact that he was going to die young and that he knew that I would be the one to fight.

You know, there are things that we don’t understand. We’re not meant to understand them, right? But there is something that is moving me that feels bigger than me. I know it matters. And when I read back those conversations and think about how I was like, “You need to get some sleep. You’re probably just tired. No, you’re not going to die young.” “You know, my death is going to be tied to Turning Point USA from the moment I signed on the dotted line.” He said he had the dreams. He had the dreams repeatedly.

Charlie’s Prophetic Dreams

SHAWN RYAN: What were the dreams?

CANDACE OWENS: That he was going to die young, that he was going to die in a very tragic way, and that his death would be tied to like saving the world, waking up the world about something. And at the time, I just— I mean, what do you say with that, right? It’d be weird if I was like, “Okay, sure, give me a plan. What would you like me to do when you die young?” Like, what was I going to say?

When I read it back, it’s haunting. It haunts me. And it haunts me because now, in the way that he was dreaming in 2018, I have had the most vivid dreams since he’s died, and I don’t discount them. I know there is just something spiritually pulling me and guiding me in ways I don’t really understand. And so I just give in to that. It’s like he went out and something awakened in me.

The Responsibility to Speak Out

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, when you’re talking about evil prevails when good men do nothing, do you think that— I think about this all the time too, it’s one of my favorite quotes. I feel it’s— part of me feels like it’s a responsibility to do what I do, just like you do, I think. But how much impact do you think you can really make?

CANDACE OWENS: You know, I try not to stop and measure my impact. I know that every day when I wake up and when I decide what I want to cover, I am doing it out of a unique passion. I care, and something is motivating me that’s real. And I think people respond to that, and it’s made a difference.

Charlie is trending every day. He’s trending every day, and that’s not what they wanted. They wanted everyone to stop talking about him. The moment Erika and Trump hugged on stage at the memorial and she said, “I forgive him.” That was supposed to be the end.

SHAWN RYAN: That was so weird too.

CANDACE OWENS: It was weird. Everything was weird. Everything has been strange. Most of all his wife and watching this almost subhuman answer that they are trying to provide, which is, “Well, we have money. We have power, so just get in line.” Like, that’s going to be the cure here for all the skepticism, is just to apply more money, more influencers, more attacks on the people who are looking into it. I mean, Turning Point USA attacking Joe Kent, it’s like— just for trying to investigate whether there could have been any foreign ties. Think about how bizarre that is.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, I know.

CANDACE OWENS: And what’s more bizarre is that they don’t recognize it as bizarre when they do it. What’s wrong with these people? The social IQ there is something that disturbs me. Their inability to understand that what they’re doing is going to register to the public as remarkably suspicious.

Case in point, did no one tell you that you shouldn’t be on a Zoom call laughing about emojis 6 days after your husband got killed? Does someone have to tell you that? What has been rinsed out of you that you don’t recognize that there’s something deeply wrong with that? To get onto a Zoom call 11 days after he’s been assassinated and say, “We’re moving on with Turning Point 2.0.” My husband is dead. Not to be morbid, but he’s dead. That’s acceptance.

Questions About Erika Kirk

SHAWN RYAN: Do you think that she had something to do with it? She was complicit? Or do you— I mean, we were talking about this earlier. I came here from Boca Raton, Florida. It’s the shallowest f*ing place on the planet. You see 19-year-old girls with 76-year-old men every single day playing tonsil hockey and more, you know. And that’s just what that place is.

Do you think that maybe she, when they met, she was, you know, she just saw paycheck and she’s a narcissist and had no feelings, no love, no nothing for him, just wanted to marry into a guy who’s making $150 million a year?

CANDACE OWENS: Even if everything you just said was true, she was motivated by money to marry him, she didn’t actually love him, let’s even add that she hated him secretly, right? When someone dies like that, you still have a human reaction. So let’s— who would you say is his arch nemesis? Nick Fuentes. Okay.

SHAWN RYAN: Mm.

Racial Threats and Media Circus

CANDACE OWENS: He delivered a more impassioned response to what happened to Charlie than Charlie’s wife did. Even your worst enemy. That’s what I’m saying. Like, forget, remove all that. Even if it’s your worst enemy, in life, when someone dies like that, it stirs you because you’re like, okay, I didn’t really like this guy, but like, man, I didn’t want him to die like that. You know, that’s not how I wanted— I wanted to, you know, debate him. I was having fun hating him, whatever it is. That we couldn’t get that from his wife.

And when I go back, because I think I did suffer, my sister said to me, you know, right away she came down. I couldn’t eat. And she said to me, “Can she recognize that?” I went to watch somebody that you know die like that. It’s like a brain trauma. Like, my brain was trying— and I’m sure you understand this because military guys deal with death, I think, a lot more than we do, like traumatic death like this. But it’s like a brain trauma is the only way you can describe it.

And so I was not even paying attention to certain things that I now see with very clear eyes, like her speech, like you said, at the memorial. Erika actually doesn’t really tell you anything about Charlie in that speech. It’s a speech that’s laying the groundwork for Turning Point 2.0. She tells you every time she speaks about Charlie, she actually tells you about how great she is, how much he loved her, how he wrote her notes, how he wanted her to take over Turning Point USA. And she didn’t write the speech. I learned that because they fired a bunch of people that she didn’t write the speech. Erika doesn’t write her own speeches.

The idea of not writing the eulogy, and that’s why we don’t learn anything about him that we couldn’t find on Wikipedia. There was no substance. Who was Charlie outside of Turning Point USA? You can’t find out in that speech. All Charlie wanted was Turning Point USA 2.0. Turning Point, Turning Point. He cared about the students. He cared about looking after men like Tyler Robinson. I forgive him. This is what Turning Point’s all about. Turning Point, Turning Point. How many times they say Turning Point? I mean, even at her podium speech, and I felt weird about it the first time when she— the 48 hours after where she said, “You want to help, here’s what you can do, go to turningpointusa.com.” I don’t know where an ad read the first time she addresses the nation, go to turningpointusa.com.

SHAWN RYAN: Holy sh*t.

CANDACE OWENS: Like, I can’t even stomach the idea of being able to say something like that. But her whole idea was, this is what he wanted. He wanted your money to go to Turning Point USA.

And then you can contrast it with Vanessa’s speech, Vanessa Bryant’s speech, and you see what a grieving widow looks like. And you listen to the story she told. I rewatched her speech and I couldn’t get through it because I loved Kobe. I loved Kobe Bryant, and I loved Kobe on the court. He was amazing at what he did. But how weird if she had given a speech of like, “He dribbled every single day and what he loved was the Lakers. And if you want to support the Lakers and support my—” Like, no, she said we didn’t even know Kobe. By the time you get through her speech, you realize you didn’t know Kobe.

I loved Kobe, who he was on the court. This is her husband and she knew Kobe and she shared that with us in her eulogy. Who he was as a father, who he was at home. And you realize there’s no humanity in Erika’s speech. She doesn’t want you to think of Charlie as anything other than a vehicle for Turning Point USA. And he was so much more than that.

And I think that’s why in retrospect people watched my show and people like Taylor Loren said— she tweeted, “Why do I feel like Candace Owens is the only one that actually cared about him?” I didn’t even realize that when I was just sharing all of those little moments that I had with Charlie, that that was unique and that nobody was getting that from anybody who worked with him. They were just trying to encourage you to donate to Turning Point USA. “This is what he would have wanted you to do.”

SHAWN RYAN: Holy sh*t.

CANDACE OWENS: Yes, he loved building and he loved politics and all those things, but the actual Charlie was just so funny. Like, the fact that they didn’t tell you who Charlie was and how he was really good at voices and he could mimic anybody’s voice. He just had the best sense of humor. He really did. And everything was just left on the table. They didn’t care. It was all about building what Erika was going to step into.

Candace’s Senior Year Threats

SHAWN RYAN: So 2007, looks like you got threats in your senior year. What was that about?

CANDACE OWENS: I wrote about it in my first book. It was one of these moments that I think made me understand the media and how the media functions, their ability to lie or to create a narrative. And in retrospect, what happened could have just been understood in a very high school way.

I had a best friend who was a guy friend of mine, and I think he’s gay, by the way. I think he ended up being gay in life. But he and I hung out all the time until I got my first boyfriend, and that was it. I was totally the typical standard: ditch all your friends, spend non-stop time with your boyfriend. And he was really angry and bitter about that. Not because he liked me or anything, but just it was a disruption.

And so one night, he rounds up a couple of guys who I had never met in my life, which is why it was scary when it happened, because I was thinking, I don’t know who would leave me these messages. They left horrifically racist messages. Like, there’s no question. “We’re going to put a bullet in the back of your head like Rosa Parks.” I mean, it was a lot.

And when it happened, I was like, what on earth? Who’s calling me? I didn’t think it was him because the voices weren’t his. He had different people in the car, but one of the people ended up being the mayor and then eventual governor of Connecticut’s son, which turned it into a political thing. And suddenly everyone wanted to cover this.

I hadn’t even reported it myself. I actually was just talking about it in a philosophy class in high school, and my teacher at the time, who’s now the principal of the school— he’s great, loved him— he was like, “This is absolutely unacceptable. You’re going in right now, I’m reporting this.” And so he went right into the principal’s office and reported it. And then it felt like everything was completely out of my control.

It was like front page fodder because it was, look what the mayor’s son was involved in. I had never met the kid in my entire life. And the racism theme and the NAACP is showing up on the steps of my high school. They had never spoken to me, but the NAACP has got an NAACP. So that kind of shaped my ideas about them as well, because no one cared about how we felt at that point.

What probably should have happened is he probably should have been forced to apologize, rather than smearing him as a racist. I mean, was he a racist? No, we were best friends. That’s kind of the point. Did he do something and say something racist? Yes. You will be surprised how, when you’re trying to hurt someone, how easily available it is to use a racist term, even when you’re mad. I mean, there’s comedic skits about that. Everyone turns into a racist as soon as someone cuts them off in a car, right? Suddenly we’re all racist when we’re angry. There’s some truth to it. Sexist too. The woman driver. Oh, it was a Chinese man behind the wheel. And so it was the micro of that pretty much.

And more traumatizing than the messages was then having my life completely ripped from me and becoming like this micro celebrity victim. Nobody cared. And everyone’s life got ruined in a different way. The kids I know ended up getting into a lot of trouble. I think the kid that was my best friend— I ended up leaving school for a bit and homeschooling, just because I wanted— while the FBI was investigating the authenticity of the message, as if it was— I’m sure that was being pressed.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, the FBI got involved?

The Politics of Victimhood and Race

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, they did. And I think it was just because of the element of politician who was trying to pretend his son didn’t do it, as if what I called myself casually, like, and left these messages. I don’t know why all that was even necessary. They should have just confessed, but I think they tried to get away with it in a weird, stupid way. And the kids ended up getting arrested, and it was definitely not— it was just wasn’t dealt with in the right way, and it became this really big thing that ruined a lot of lives.

And I think for a kid to be branded as a racist for doing something one night is really heavy. It’s really heavy, especially when it’s just fundamentally not true, right? Like I said, he wouldn’t have been my best friend if he was a racist. And I will maintain that he was not a racist. He did something really stupid and said a lot of really racist stuff when he was drunk. People make mistakes.

It’s hard, especially now in today’s environment, to allow kids to make mistakes. Everything is so recorded. I mean, you see what they do if they find one tweet that someone sent that said the N-word when they were 11 years old. And I remember sitting with my cousin, my younger cousin, one time, and he plays— you know, what’s the game? Not Grand Theft Auto, but it’s one that’s like it where there’s like a lot of guys love it. It’s Call of Duty. And he literally was 12 years old and he’s in the chat. Have you ever seen this Call of Duty chat? I’m sure you have, maybe. And it’s unbelievable. It’s just like this whole— and he’s in there saying whatever and saying Allahu Akbar and throwing a bomb, and he’s like a 12-year-old kid. And I’m just sitting here going, okay, this is just 12-year-olds just trying everything out, saying what they can. You’re going to push boundaries. I mean, it’s a part of coming of age, like you push boundaries.

And Louis C.K. did a really good skit talking about what the phones are taking away from people. And it’s this natural stage where people want to try out being mean. And if you say something in someone’s face and you see how they react and then you realize you don’t really feel good being mean— it doesn’t actually feel good to be mean— it allows you to kind of edit yourself as a human being. And things are really easy when you add technology as a layer. It’s easy to tweet something stupid. It’s easy to say something vicious in the comment section.

And we’re now dealing with a generation of kids who are growing up terminally online, whereas when I was growing up, my dad had a beeper, right? And so I don’t have to think about the record, where I’m sure I experimented with being mean in middle school. And social media has added another dynamic to it. So I kind of reflected on that and, again, don’t regret any of the lessons from it, but I really do think that it’s just seeing the obsession to politicize and the NAACP and the Democratic mayor looking to try to cover this up, it kind of gave me an early introduction to what politics is, which is not really about solutions.

SHAWN RYAN: But you saw right through all that sh at 17 years old.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Well, I lived it and it didn’t help me. And so also even just the politics of victimhood. “This is a victim.” Like, who wants to be a victim?

SHAWN RYAN: A lot of people.

The NAACP and the Grift of Victimhood

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, well, because money is made, and that is kind of the NAACP’s grift in that— find me a Black victim and I’ll show up and be in front of the cameras screaming about how racism still exists. And by the way, people are always going to say racist words and sexist words, and I am just not a big believer in— I’m not a believer at all in the idea that this is stopping me from getting from point A to point B. It’s not really my business if somebody doesn’t like Black people.

Personally, I think everyone’s just gotten too nosy. When people ask me why I don’t find the inflammatory language to be such a threat— it’s just dumb. I find a lot of it to be really dumb. And if you’re somebody who thinks, “I don’t want to ever date a Black girl or a Spanish girl or a white girl,” have at it, man. It doesn’t really impact my life. And so a lot of the hyperfocus on that is because it keeps people constantly divided and warring and forming an opinion about stuff that doesn’t actually empower any of us. And the people that are intentionally constantly stoking the flames of that are people at the top, of course.

SHAWN RYAN: Does the NAACP actually do anything for the Black community?

CANDACE OWENS: No, nothing. They just find another victim and raise money. Of course, if your entire bottom line relies upon racism existing, you don’t ever want it to go away. Duh, common sense. It’s sort of like, you even saw this with GLAAD, to give another example. Their whole grift was all about gay marriage, gay marriage, gay marriage, and then they got gay marriage and they were like, “Oh, got any more letters in that LGB bag?” And they’re like, “Actually, here’s a T, a Q, an R.”

SHAWN RYAN: Let us invent some. Yeah, exactly. So they—

CANDACE OWENS: These people are not actually looking to solve problems. They’re looking to constantly have a problem that needs to be solved so that they can fundraise off of it. They create problems.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, racial— race derogatory— racial terms, I mean, I just— it seems like they’ve completely lost the weight. Yeah, because they’ve overused it, everything, in every possible regard.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And we just need people to be tougher. You’ll be fine if somebody calls you the N-word, you’ll be fine if somebody calls you a racial slur. We just need to kind of build tougher people than to think that they’re all coming apart because they’ve been called a name. I want my kids to be tougher than that.

SHAWN RYAN: Why do you think— do you think it’s for the money, the donations, whatever it is that the NAACP— or do you think it’s bigger than that? I mean, it can get bigger than that. The divide and conquer.

CANDACE OWENS: Absolutely. BLM was that example. I mean, when they get going, they can cause people to be at each other’s throats, warring. They will cause a civil war before they get people looking at the corruption of what they’re doing. And that’s been tale as old as time.

SHAWN RYAN: Who do you think “they” is? “They” is a lot of different people.

The Zionist Mafia

CANDACE OWENS: Well, it depends on what we’re talking about. There are totally different categories of topics that I cover on the show. I think the biggest issue that we have right now in America, without question, is Israel. And the satanic people who support what they’re doing. The bloodthirst, the control. They behave like a mafia. And I’m talking specifically about Zionists. And sometimes people will say, “When you say Zionist, you mean Jews.” I want to be very clear— the Judeo-Christians can be some of the most toxic, gang-like people who are part of the same apparatus. So you actually can’t isolate it.

But I have found— and which has been the experience I think of a lot of people, especially over the last year— this is a gang, this is a mafia. This is not normal. What they did, the pressure they put Charlie under, what they did to me, what they’re currently doing to Megyn Kelly— I mean, Megyn Kelly, I think, is probably the greatest example. What did Megyn Kelly do? Megyn Kelly was like, “I’m a Zionist.” And they were like, “We don’t care. You say something about Tucker Carlson right now or we will destroy you.” And that’s a mafia.

SHAWN RYAN: And you.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And me. That’s a mafia. That is— you are with us or you are against us. And I faced that obviously in my own life and saw that and I called it out for what it is. And we’re late to the party. Michael Jackson was trying to say what it was. Kanye West was trying to say what it was. They lived through this mafia. And finally we have people understanding that.

SHAWN RYAN: What did Michael Jackson say?

CANDACE OWENS: Michael Jackson had a list of the 6 Jewish people who he said were messing with his life. Rabbi Shmuley was on the list. I can’t think of the other people that were on it. And they called him an anti-Semite because he was talking about control in Hollywood and people that he was fighting for control.

SHAWN RYAN: Who’s Rabbi Shmuley?

CANDACE OWENS: He’s just a crazy, deranged human.

SHAWN RYAN: Am I supposed to know him?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, he had a lot to do with the Michael Jackson stuff because he called himself Michael Jackson’s rabbi and really kind of is just a person that is constantly threatening people out in the open. And is somehow allowed to do it because of what his father did for the state of Israel. And often you will find that thread of the people who are the most deranged and the most psychopathic and yet somehow seem to be allowed to function in society. You just have to figure out who their parents were, who their uncles were, and they’ve done something for the state of Israel. So they’re in the Zionist mafia, as I describe it. It is a mafia. There’s no question in my mind that it is a gang.

Kanye West and the Handlers

SHAWN RYAN: What was Kanye saying?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, Kanye, you know, he notoriously tweeted that he was going to go DEFCON 3 on some Jewish people that had been toying with his life. And nobody cared when he dropped the actual text messages from his trainer, Harley Pasternak, saying that he would put him back in the hospital and he’d never be able to see his kids again. He dropped the messages. We talk about a gangster threat— like, here’s how it’s going to go.

Harley Pasternak is a trainer, and Kanye was basically— before I was awake to this possibility, I was very much around him when this was all going down, when he tweeted this and when Adidas pulled his contract. He was at my house and all the stuff that was going on. And he was basically— I just thought he was— I had no idea what he was talking about. I was very green to this concept of someone saying that their life was a Truman Show. And he was like, basically, “Are you a real person? Like, even to me, are you a real person?” And I’m like, “Are you good? What do you mean? You think I’m a character in a show?” He was going through this, and at its core, he felt like someone was directing his life and that the people had been controlling him and he was going to stand up to these people.

But Harley Pasternak was his trainer. I’ve covered this on my show. He’s got a very checkered past. A lot of his clients have died in suspicious circumstances. And he also was like former Canadian CIA— like psychology or something— and then decided to go be a gym trainer in LA, in Hollywood. And these are handlers. Handlers are real. This is a part of the onion of the Zionist mafia, in my view— the handlers who are supposed to see if they can bring you back to the side of reason. “Can’t you see the error of your ways?” And even when you’re completely right, their job is to gaslight you into thinking that you’re wrong. And I’ve had my experience. I believe that I had handlers and didn’t recognize it.

But Kanye, when he really woke up to that, Harley Pasternak— he shared the message that Harley Pasternak, his trainer, gym trainer, wrote to him. And he said, you know, “Here’s how it’s going to go.” Maybe he said, “You’re going to say sorry,” or something like that. And then the message reads, “Or I’ll take you back to Cedars-Sinai,” because Harley Pasternak is the one that got Kanye put on a psych 5150 hold when they drugged him. And he said, “We’ll take you back to—” I think he described it as La La Land. And he said, “And playdates with your kids will never be the same. We’ll drug you out of your mind.”

SHAWN RYAN: Holy sh.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s in writing. And the media just let it go and said Kanye was crazy. I said, no, Harley Pasternak’s crazy. Who the hell is this man? It’s not how a gym trainer talks. Who is this guy?

SHAWN RYAN: Holy sh.

Gaslighting, Handlers, and the Freud Connection

CANDACE OWENS: And so when stars, Hollywood stars, have been screaming and trying to tell you that something is wrong and that they suddenly wake up to the fact that they’re in a prison, the first thing that happens is another layer of the onion comes out and calls them crazy. That’s how that works. They say this person’s having an emotional breakdown. They diagnose the people.

And the reason for that is because it was a— that strategy of modern psychology was developed by Sigmund Freud, who was a Satanist, full stop. He was into Jewish mysticism, the occult, Sabbatian Frankism, and he began gaslighting kids who actually were being raped by their parents in Vienna. That is the true story of Sigmund Freud.

There’s a book on it by the man who controlled his archives called The Assault on Truth. This is a book written by a Jewish man, so there’s no antisemitism in this book. And he worked under Anna Freud and was due to become the next director of the Sigmund Freud Archives. So he was a fan of psychology. He believed in Sigmund Freud’s theory, which was that kids are attracted to their parents— wacky.

And then he learned to speak German so that he could read Sigmund Freud’s notes and his letters that the public has never seen. And he realized that Sigmund Freud was a complete fraud. And he rang the alarm on it and said he literally saw, and knew that these kids were being abused, that these kids were being raped. In some cases in Vienna, they were being raped and murdered in such Satanic, vicious, occult ceremonies, that they died. And he would then go to the morgue, he observed their injuries, he knew it was real, and he lied because he was protecting his pedophile friends.

And so they developed— Sigmund Freud’s contribution to society is gaslighting. He created gaslighting. So you can draw a direct line from Sigmund Freud to Hollywood to modern propaganda. His nephew is Edward Bernays, the World War II propaganda, all of that. That’s Edward Bernays to PR, PR that we have today, that the Freud family is still the biggest PR family in the world. They do PR for the royal family. I mean, Matthew Freud.

And this is where we’re at, is gaslighting is another onion piece of a layer. So when you realize someone’s wronged you and you say this is wrong, they then send people to try to make you think that you’re the crazy person. And I dealt with that firsthand. Firsthand saw how the mafia moves, trying to convince me that I had done something wrong when I tweeted “genocide is always wrong.” The messages were insane that I received. I had to read my tweet like a thousand times and go, “Did I say something in here? Like, genocide is always wrong.”

SHAWN RYAN: You said “genocide is wrong” and then “genocide is always wrong.” Holy s*. Who do you think your handlers were?

CANDACE OWENS: I think—

SHAWN RYAN: How close to you were they?

CANDACE OWENS: They were all— I mean, it was very apparent, but it was all around me. I think probably the most skilled handler was Marissa. I didn’t realize until that moment that she messaged me and said, “I want to help you, you don’t want to go down this route, if you go down this route I can’t protect you.” And I stood up for myself in the messages and I said, “Marissa, go down what route? Like, what am I doing here that’s wrong? I’m a grown adult woman, I know what I’m saying, I believe genocide is always wrong.” I mean, this was all via text message, so I still have it.

SHAWN RYAN: Who’s Marissa?

The Daily Wire and the Gaslighting Campaign

CANDACE OWENS: Marissa is the CEO of Prager University, PragerU, and then of course The Daily Wire, who were trying to convince me that I owed Ben an apology for saying “genocide is always wrong.” I mean, watching that psychological element of them trying to convince me that I had done something wrong was insane. And Dave Rubin was messaging me. It was just full-on everyone trying to explain to me, “Let me help you.” It’s always the approach of, “I’m your friend and I’m trying to help you realize the error of your ways,” and it’s just full-blown gaslighting. And I stood firm on it and was like, “No, I know what I wrote and I meant every word of it. Genocide is always wrong.” Still stand by that.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, you got to be careful. How do you hire? Well, that’s like the most— I get so fing paranoid when I have to hire. I hate— I mean, everybody hates hiring. Yeah, I really fing hate hiring. Yeah, because I don’t trust anybody.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I trust my gut.

SHAWN RYAN: How do you find your people?

Building a Trusted Team

CANDACE OWENS: Well, I’ve benefited from the fact that I’ve had the same people on my team for over 5 years now. So when I got fired from The Daily Wire, my team came with me, which was a tremendous vote of confidence at the time because we didn’t know, we didn’t have anything. We were just sort of like, “Look, we can’t give you any benefits, we don’t know if this is going to work, obviously.” And The Daily Wire at that time was paying a lot of money. They had benefits, they had security. And my editor came over, my producer came over, technical director. And so it was a tremendous vote of confidence that they came over with me. I know that they believe in me and they believe in what I’m doing.

So I’m lucky that we don’t have a high turnover rate and I haven’t had to be trusting. And I’m just very grateful to have that. And we’re tight. We have a good time. We have fun. I believe in SEAL Team Six. I like to keep the team small and effective. I don’t care about appearances and having 90 people working for me.

And when we do have to hire, I go with my gut. We recently hired a new director, and he’s been fantastic. And the reason why he was great is he just totally sits outside of the entire wheelhouse of politics. So he was just a burst of fresh air and loves to research. Just a great positive attitude. And you have to want to be around the people too. You spend a lot of time, you’re fighting a lot of battles with them. And so you want to keep them motivated and have a good time and be able to laugh and enjoy each other, have the same values in life. I think everybody on my team is in a really good place in life. Fulfilled by their relationships, by their marriages. So it just feels good.

SHAWN RYAN: Good for you.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, we’re in a good spot.

College, Student Loans, and New York City

SHAWN RYAN: Good for you. All right, let’s go back a couple years. Where did you go to college after?

CANDACE OWENS: I went to the University of Rhode Island. That incident in high school happened in my senior year, so it kind of threw my entire senior year into chaos, and I’m lucky I even applied to college. I almost didn’t even apply because it was so crazy. And URI was close enough. I just applied to URI, got in, went there.

SHAWN RYAN: What did you want to study?

CANDACE OWENS: English and journalism. I have a double major in English and journalism, so I think it’s quite fitting.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah. Where do we go from there?

CANDACE OWENS: Where did I go from there? So actually the story is I had— I finished my degree later because Sallie Mae had hit a huge collapse and didn’t give me my loan for my senior year of college. I have senior year issues, I’ve realized. And so I had to figure it out. Sallie Mae basically was like, “You have one year before we start knocking on your door and demanding your firstborn child.” I had $100K in student loan debt. They weren’t going to pay for the last year. Crazy. I could wax poetic about the industry of student loans. It’s so predatory, finding poor people and getting them to pledge just to be in debt for the rest of their lives.

But I then moved to New York City. I had no plan. I picked up a job nannying, and while I was nannying, I started applying for jobs because these loans were starting to haunt me. I needed to make some money and get out of debt. And so I was like, “If I get my foot in the door anywhere, I can sell myself. I can learn anything. I’m a really hard worker.” And my second interview at a private equity firm, I saw that they pay their assistants really well, these private equity guys. And so my second interview at a private equity firm, I got hired to be a second assistant, and I was hired on the spot, which was fantastic. And then I stayed with that company for 4 years. And when I left, I was like the vice president of the administration.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

CANDACE OWENS: They were fantastic to me. I was treated really well and I got to travel the world because it was one of those jobs where I had to do everything. Everything. I mean, his wife—

SHAWN RYAN: Did you just say you went from second assistant to VP of the entire company in 4 years?

From Private Equity to the World Stage

CANDACE OWENS: VP of the administration. It was a small company, so I don’t want to make it— it wasn’t like there were 1,000 employees. Almost like a family-style trade desk, a true private equity structure. I mean, maybe 18 employees, which was nice. It’s actually part of the reason why I like the idea of a small team, because I saw it work. And they were killers. We worked really hard, and I got to meet a lot of really cool people. They invested also in movies and there was a lot of traveling involved, so I got to see the world on somebody else’s dime, which was great too.

Because he also, when he had crises happening in his personal life, he really trusted me to just learn anything and figure it out, whether it was building a house in Montauk, whether it was— I mean, I ended up with Snoop Dogg in Croatia. Like, there were so many crazy adventures, and no two days were the same. So I had a fantastic time while I was there and I was there to pay off my student loans. And every time bonus season came around, I would just ask him to pay another chunk. “Hey, can you pay another chunk, pay another chunk?” And he did. I was working for the principal there.

And so they also even put me through— I went down to learn Spanish. I moved to Costa Rica for— was it an 8-week program? And you live with a family that doesn’t speak any English because he had a wife that was Spanish speaking. And so she hired a lot of Spanish staff. And I was like, “Well, I got to learn the language. I can’t manage the staff if I don’t know the language.” And so because they traveled— everyone goes to Montauk or the Hamptons for the summer— I found a program. “Can you pay for me to go down there? I’ll learn Spanish.” And so I did that.

SHAWN RYAN: And so you speak Spanish?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Well, I’m now really, really rusty, but I did. I was fluent. Fluent in Spanish. And I can understand Spanish though. And so yeah, I mean, I really lived a lot in those 4 and a half years that I was there. Saw a lot of the world and just— I always wanted to grow. I always wanted— I like learning. I like focusing. Anything that I put my mind to, I feel like I can learn. And that was kind of my introduction to— I mean, there’s no place— if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere. That’s the expression. And I live by that. I really do believe that because it’s such a tough city.

SHAWN RYAN: What were you doing at Vogue?

From Intern to Conservative: Candace’s Political Awakening

CANDACE OWENS: So that’s when I was interning initially. I was interning and I did the whole magazine circuit. So I did Seventeen magazine, I did Glamour magazine, and I did Vogue, which was the big one that everyone wants to get into.

And it was, of course, as somebody who loved to write, I majored in English and journalism. That was my glamorous idea, was that I was going to go move to New York City and, I don’t know, be Carrie Bradshaw from Sex and the City. I don’t know what my idea was. It was, in retrospect, a little bit cartoonish.

And then when I got there, I just culturally was like, yeah, I don’t want to do this. You know, this is not where I want to work. The girls were so vicious, so hungry. But I learned a lot. I mean, they would have fond memories of me. I worked my butt off and that was why I kind of graduated up to the magazines and was the head of the intern closet, so to speak, at Vogue and made great friends.

So I’ve kind of— I’ve been a lot of places, really, when I think about it. New York was tough. It was fun. It was a lot of lessons learned. And the private equity firm even let me take— because I wanted to learn a little bit about private equity. I became a notary because anytime they were like, “We need this,” I was like, how many times am I going to get a notary in here? Why don’t I just become a notary? That’s the kind of person I am. So I just took the test and became a notary and then did this NYU accounting course as well because I wanted to understand a little bit more about the finance side of what we were doing because I was interested in the deals. They were really all so different that were being brought. So it was fun. It was a lot of fun.

From Liberal to Conservative: The Political Shift

SHAWN RYAN: You were a liberal growing up?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I mean, liberal in the youth sense. I think it’s weird when my husband says he was always conservative. I’m like, what’s wrong with you? He’s the rare person who was always conservative, and I was liberal, like, in the way that you don’t know anything and it just kind of sounds better. Even— are you a liberal or conservative? I’m a liberal. I’m a liberal. What do you mean? And I think any time—

SHAWN RYAN: What do you mean?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, what do you mean? Before you have bills, life is so— it’s so easy to be idealistic when you don’t have to pay bills and you don’t really comprehend the issues. Then you lean into the emotional issues and live and let live. You love these stupid bumper sticker expressions. You see it all so nice. It fits your AIM profile, you know, like, oh, let me find a quotation to put on my going away message on AIM.

You know, the youth, you’re liberal when you’re young. There’s that expression— gosh, who says the expression that if you’re not a liberal when you’re young, you don’t have a heart? If you’re not a conservative when you die, you don’t have a brain.

So then you suddenly— you’re paying taxes, you’re like, hey, where’s this money going? Like, why am I working so hard? And then your philosophy changes a bit as you get older. But I never was politically inclined, so I never voted Democrat. I was just— I would’ve very much described myself as a liberal. And if you had asked me any topic, I would’ve been across the Democratic Party line if I was actually voting, but I wasn’t.

SHAWN RYAN: What switched you?

The Gamergate Rabbit Hole

CANDACE OWENS: I had this curious set of circumstances that brought me to something that was known as the Gamergate conspiracy.

SHAWN RYAN: What is that?

CANDACE OWENS: Honestly, I still couldn’t tell you, to be honest with you, because I’m not a gamer, as I just said. But I was like Alice in Wonderland and was trying to— I put up a Kickstarter to put together a company. I had this idea after I paid down all of my student loans and I had a little savings account that I wanted to start.

And it was maybe all heart, no brain— a company that would get kids into— to be able to get in trouble on the internet without having these consequences like being arrested. And so my bright idea was that I was going to create this company called Social Autopsy, and if they got in trouble online, they wouldn’t get into legal trouble. And rather than that, it would sort of help them, I don’t know, maybe get suspended or something. Like, it was my way of trying to right the wrongs, maybe misguided from what happened in high school, totally misguided.

And I was very green and I put it up on Kickstarter and I got this weird call from this girl called Zoe Quinn. Gamers who are watching this will know exactly who this is. They’ll be like, yes, the gamer, that’s how I knew you or whatever. And it was really weird because she was telling me she was a victim and that I couldn’t make this company. She misunderstood what we were even thinking about doing. She thought we were going to build a technology like a Silicon Valley technology to unmask trolls on the internet, which was not at all what we were doing. We had no capability to do this. We had a splash page. That’s why we were on Kickstarter. I had no connections to be able to do that.

But her call— she was saying she was a victim, but it was very obvious she was threatening me. And I didn’t know anything about this girl or Gamergate. And long story short, after I hang up the phone call with her, I start getting hit with a bunch of threats online. It was very obvious to me that this girl was directing the— just my gut instinct that something was wrong with this girl. And I landed myself into the middle of a huge, like, huge Gamergate-like war that was being covered extensively by Breitbart. I’m really just always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The Media Betrayal

And so suddenly, next thing, the Washington Post is calling me. I’m not known at this time. They’re calling me and they’re asking— and I’m thinking, these are my friends. Like, I went to school— Washington Post, that is the top of the line journalism. I learned this in school. Like, what? I’m so flattered to be able to give this interview.

And I spoke to this girl, Caitlin Dewey was her name, I’ll never forget that. She was so nice on the phone. And I said to her, yeah, and I explained to her what happened. I’m like, I really don’t think that girl Zoe Quinn is telling the truth because, you know, she was a victim and said that she was harassed by gamers. And so she kind of built a whole 501 platform based off of that. And I guess the Gamergate conspiracy was that she was actually leading an army of trolls. And that was just my experience with her in 4 seconds, you know. I had no idea, like, what was going on or what the backstory was. Just like, that girl led trolls against me, and that girl wasn’t a victim. And boy, was that a big statement.

Anyway, the Washington Post, after they interviewed me— Caitlin Dewey— also New York Magazine, I believe it was, or The New Yorker— Jesse Signal, or Single was his name, Signal— they lied and smeared me after. I thought these guys were my friends, and I told them the truth, and they were like protecting this girl Zoe Quinn. It was so weird.

And this was the entire thrust of the Gamergate conspiracy, was that this girl was being artificially protected, that she was actually leading an army of trolls and pretending that we needed to do something about men and gamers on the internet. And this is kind of like the preamble to the Hillary Clinton campaign, which became very much like we got into this anti-masculinity, men are toxic. It was kind of the preamble to that. And I think she had a real fear that if I had created this technology which could unmask trolls, that it was going to expose that everything the gamer conspiracy theorists were saying was true.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

Discovering Breitbart and Trump

CANDACE OWENS: That was my read on the situation. And so she was being protected, and I never really— I mean, I’m just not a gamer. I just didn’t know. But the only people that actually gave me a fair shake in the media who I spoke to was Breitbart, which was crazy because I thought they were like the white supremacist— you know, my Connecticut, Democratic surroundings, blue liberal-ish mind— I was really reticent to speak to them. And then they wrote the truth about what I had said. So I was kind of like, what the heck is going on? Why is up down and down up?

And at this time, Trump was running. And so I was kind of questioning my allegiance to leftist media, so to speak, because of how I was treated. And I didn’t really comprehend when I just told them the truth about this random chick. And Trump, they were saying, was like a racist, a white supremacist, all of this stuff. And I was willing to at least listen to the other side because I now did not trust the Washington Post.

And so I decided to just listen to a Trump speech without having it filtered for me by CNN or MSNBC. And I heard his pitch to Black America. And he was in Dimondale, Michigan at the time. And he said, you know, Black America— he sort of listed all of the ways in which Black Americans are struggling, like the statistics, just the raw statistics. And he said, “Why don’t you just take a chance on me? What do you have to lose? Just do something different. You vote Democrat every 4 years.”

And I was like, you know, fair elevator pitch, I like it, whatever. Still not going to get my vote, but whatever. And then I pivoted to my trusted sources over at CNN, and Don Lemon was like crying over it, and it was like, “He looked Black America in the face and he said, you are poor, you are pathetic, you can’t do this.” And I was like, that didn’t happen at all. That’s not what he said. He gave a kind of reasonable pitch. You’ve been doing the same thing, why don’t you try something different?

Thomas Sowell and the Conservative Awakening

And so that began a huge— man, could I have had this thing wrong? Like, are Republicans not all racist and backwards? Like, is there something I’m missing here? And me just sort of being the naturally curious person that I am who wants to learn more, I kind of privately began that pursuit, and it led me to Thomas Sowell and his work and his books, and it changed my life. I really love Thomas Sowell. I feel like he’s like my private tutor who I’ve never met.

SHAWN RYAN: Right on. Do you still consider yourself to be a conservative?

CANDACE OWENS: I’m always going to be a conservative. I actually realized I always was a conservative. I was raised with my grandfather. He was conservative, a Republican.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, I guess there is a difference now, huh?

CANDACE OWENS: And I guess there always has been, because I was liberal but I wasn’t a Democrat. I didn’t vote Democrat. Or I thought I was liberal, but actually I was raised conservatively and my values were always conservative and I am a conservative. I think it works. I think family works. And that’s the most— what are we conserving at the end of the day is the question. And to me, it’s traditional families. I think that’s our best guard against the government.

Trump’s Betrayal and the Butler Assassination Attempt

SHAWN RYAN: I think so too. Honestly, I think that’s almost the only— that might be the only thing that we can really— I don’t know. You had said something earlier about, you know, we were talking about, do you feel like it’s your responsibility to do what you do. And then you’d said you really trust your gut when you’re hiring people. I don’t know, man. I trust my gut, but maybe I don’t trust my gut because the lead-up to this last election was just all lies.

CANDACE OWENS: Something happened to Trump, right?

SHAWN RYAN: But something happened to all of them.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, every single one of them. Who, who else except Joe Kent?

CANDACE OWENS: I wasn’t, I mean, what did you expect from Marco Rubio?

SHAWN RYAN: I’m like, absolutely nothing. Absolutely. Exactly what we see.

CANDACE OWENS: Exactly. I, the person that I think I placed stock in was Trump and we got played. I mean, there’s no other way to say it. We got— it’s kind of shocking the ways that he lied. And so you have to then go, why? This is nothing like Trump 1.0. Trump 2.0 is totally different.

And the obvious answer is, I think that Trump desperately, by any means necessary, wanted to win again. Felt the election, like many people do feel, was stolen from him in 2020. COVID changing the way we vote. I totally agree with that, by the way. And his entire life’s mission then transformed into, “I will do anything to win again, including making a deal with the devil and selling my soul.”

SHAWN RYAN: That’s what you think happened.

CANDACE OWENS: And he took $300 million from Miriam Adelson, something that he once mocked Marco Rubio for doing. He tweeted once about Sheldon Adelson owning Marco Rubio. And you don’t take $300 million from people who run Vegas—

SHAWN RYAN: A very generous woman—

CANDACE OWENS: You don’t take $300 million from people who run Vegas and tell them no about anything. That’s how it works. You know, you could talk about that in the micro level. You know this stuff growing up, basic survival skills, like when people— you don’t borrow money from people unless you know who they are. Like, and that can apply to gangs, you know.

SHAWN RYAN: You—

CANDACE OWENS: It’s time to pay up. And so Trump is not his own man, plain and simple. Trump is not running this administration. It wasn’t a gift. It wasn’t, “Hey, I really love what you’re doing, here’s $300 million.” You know, it came with contingencies, demands, one of it being that they wanted to annex the West Bank, which was something that was told to me by Charlie and Andrew Kolvet, who were present for that meeting between Miriam Adelson and Donald Trump, that she said that “I’ll cut you this check, but when we want to annex the West Bank, that’s what they wanted in exchange.”

So now I think he probably has a little bit of regret taking the money.

SHAWN RYAN: You think so?

CANDACE OWENS: I think so. I don’t think he likes not being his own man. I think that’s what a lot of the lashing out is about. I think Trump at his core wants to be liked, and I think he knows he’s not liked right now.

SHAWN RYAN: You think he’ll ever be liked again?

CANDACE OWENS: No.

SHAWN RYAN: Me neither.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: How much wealth has he amassed since he took this presidency?

CANDACE OWENS: The better question is how much more do they need. How much more does the Trump family need? I mean, when Ivanka’s swimming to Albania, like, what— how much more money do you guys need? When is enough enough?

SHAWN RYAN: Never.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And that’s why you feel like they fully have given themselves in, because none of them were like that before.

Don Jr. and the Charlie Kirk Assassination

SHAWN RYAN: You don’t think so?

CANDACE OWENS: No, I think I spent a lot of time with Don Jr., Don Trump Jr. And he was a real person, and he was certainly a very close friend of Charlie’s. He shocked me the most after the assassination because I knew Don.

And I challenged right away, I challenged him. I said, if Don Jr., who hunts— that’s the guy, he knows the wilderness— if Don Jr. comes out and says he believes that Charlie’s neck stopped a .30-06 bullet, I’ll back off. I don’t think Don Jr. has even spoken about Charlie’s assassination since.

I think a lot of people are going to go to hell for an eternity. I know a lot of people are going to go to hell for an eternity, but the level of— talked about the mourning process of realizing that Charlie gave so much of his life to put those people into power. Contending with that level of betrayal transformed me.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: So to answer your question, no, I don’t consider myself to be a Republican. Yes, I do consider myself to be a conservative.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, I’m the same. I don’t even know what the f* this means. I don’t even know if I’ll ever vote again.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s how I feel.

SHAWN RYAN: Probably not. I just, you know, going through this and uncovering everything that we’ve uncovered, nothing’s changed. I don’t know about you, but for me, it’s a f ton of stress being associated with these people. Now they have my number, they can reach me. I fing hate that. And then what was it all for? This that we see? Do you think this needed to happen?

CANDACE OWENS: What did happen?

SHAWN RYAN: This veil to be lifted?

A Global Awakening

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I have to believe that. I have to believe it. I am at my core an eternal optimist, and I don’t want to give in to despair, and I have to believe that Charlie was right, that his death was going to happen because it would be tied to a global awakening. And I’ve seen that. I’ve seen the seeds of that. I’ve seen the sprouts of that. I see the incredible audience that I have amassed around the world. I mean, going to Russia recently and realizing how big the Becoming Brigitte series was. I had no idea.

There is true evil being exposed, and it was easy for evil to control the world when we were dumb and stupid and thought it was impossible, right? Things—

SHAWN RYAN: These—

CANDACE OWENS: Some of these conspiracies. I mean, the fact that we are having real discussions about Freemasonry, about the occult, about true demons, about what demonic possession is, that you can sit here across from Father Ripperger. And I read the comments, and that was a transformative episode, by the way. But to see all the comments of like, “I need to go to church now, this episode made me want to go to church,” not “this guy’s crazy, what’s he on, The Exorcist is just a movie, just a Hollywood movie.” That’s uplifting. I think that’s uplifting, and it had to happen there.

I think we as a society needed shock treatment, and Charlie’s death was shocking in so many ways. Not just the death, the administration’s reaction to it, his wife. There were— there’s so many shock points. It shocked the senses in so many ways. It made us consider things that were so beyond the realm of what we, I think, could have ever thought feasible.

I think his assassination had to be livestreamed. And people who are evil—

SHAWN RYAN: Some ritualistic thing, or—

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. So for two minutes, the people who orchestrated his assassination, it was ritualistic. I think that they wanted to be publicized in that way. Because they thought they were then going to harness our emotion from having seen it to their benefit. And what it did was it certainly did harness emotion, but it was not to their benefit.

The emotional reaction that happened, if they could have controlled it and built a conduit for it, would have been amazing. If they could have just channeled it as they wanted to, literally channeling energy, a form of witchcraft, right? And they wanted to channel that energy toward Erika, who I, in my honest-to-God perspective, I believe she is a tried and true psychopath, truly. And I’m not saying that to be theatrical. I’m not trying to be hyperbolic. I mean clinical psychopath.

And I think that is what has shocked them is that they couldn’t do it. And so Charlie’s death contributed to an awakening and I have to keep that perspective that, you know, keep going. Yeah.

The Butler Assassination Attempt Cover-Up

SHAWN RYAN: But they didn’t even look into his own assassination attempt.

CANDACE OWENS: Trump. Yeah. Butler.

SHAWN RYAN: They f*ing blocked the investigation.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: Mm-hmm. What do you think that was?

CANDACE OWENS: I covered that recently on my show and there is a— it should be reopened and I think it was a successful assassination of Corey Comparatore.

SHAWN RYAN: I think that the firefighter, mm-hmm. I met his daughter at— did you?— the inauguration. That I never should have f*ing went to.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, they don’t believe the story. They are not satisfied. His family is not satisfied with the investigation. And there was a strange set of circumstances of his best friend from high school having died a couple of years earlier from a plausibly PETN explosive. And I covered that recently on the stream.

SHAWN RYAN: From PETN explosives.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He worked with them and I covered it recently on my show.

SHAWN RYAN: The firefighter that was killed worked at the PETN plant.

CANDACE OWENS: His best friend died a couple of years earlier and worked at— basically worked, he was a supervisor at a company that dealt with PETN explosives because they perforated the wells for oil and gas companies, which requires the PETN explosive. He died in a mysterious set of circumstances in his backyard where he was burning stuff in a barrel and something exploded and ironically hit his neck, and he died instantly.

His friends didn’t believe the circumstances surrounding his death. I had heard rumors of an illegal explosives ring, sort of people getting PETN illegally. And Corey was this guy’s friend since high school. There’s a lot of questions about, you know, shortly after Corey died, Israel did their beeper PETN explosive attack within like 2 months. It was very quickly. That’s weird.

All of the stuff could be considered conspiracy, but I think what adds weight to conspiracies are a lack of answers. When there’s a lack of answers, conspiracies become weighted. And you can’t tell me that it’s normal for a man to survive an assassination attempt and shut down the investigation into his own assassination attempt. That doesn’t make sense. Trump can’t make that make sense.

SHAWN RYAN: You think he knows?

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s why he’s blocking the investigation. Is it him blocking it or is it the FBI?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, if Tucker is to be believed, you can decide whether you believe Tucker or whether you believe Dan Bongino, but I’m going to go with Tucker Carlson.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, I’ll go with Tucker on that.

CANDACE OWENS: I’m going to go with Tucker. And Dan’s reaction to what Tucker said was very strange. He was like, “Oh, I was going to beat up Tucker Carlson or something.” I was like, Tucker Carlson’s not going to fight you, what is wrong with you? But he came undone when Tucker revealed the conversation they had, and Tucker seemed to be telling the truth that Dan said that Trump blocked it personally.

And that’s reflected even in what Don Trump Jr. said. He said, “My dad is satisfied with the investigation, I’m not, and I’m going to leave it there.” So clearly the directive had gone out from Trump that no more talk about Butler. So make that make sense. You survived an assassination attempt, you’re now number one in charge of the country. Why would you not just—

SHAWN RYAN: I have no idea why you wouldn’t want to know who’s trying to f*ing kill you. It just makes—

CANDACE OWENS: This is like turning—

SHAWN RYAN: It doesn’t make sense to me.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, they don’t—

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t know why it makes sense to so many other f*ing people, but no, it doesn’t make sense to me. I would want to know who’s trying to kill me.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, so there’s something we’re missing about Butler. And it’s the exact same, like, stage, so to speak, the exact same play as the Charlie Kirk assassination, where everyone who should be the most curious about investigating is very much not curious about investigating, angry at people that are investigating and attacking people who want to get answers. The public’s going to notice that. The public’s going to notice that something’s not right, and they’re going to begin to suspect the people who purport to be the victims.

SHAWN RYAN: Why do you think nobody in this administration’s speaking up? What do you think? Do you think they’re all under the same control? Are they all under Trump’s control?

The Illusion of Elections and Political Performance

CANDACE OWENS: We know that Charlie represented almost a solitary voice, maybe outside of JD Vance’s, in terms of trying to communicate to Trump that getting involved with Iran was a bad idea. That administration is not working for Donald Trump. They’re working for Israel. Obviously Trump is powerless. Everyone can see that.

SHAWN RYAN: It’s just, I mean, I had Kash Patel sitting right across from me at the other studio, and we just went on and on about the Epstein s*, on and on and on, and then nothing.

CANDACE OWENS: Where— I mean, where’s Kash Patel from? He’s from Vegas. If Kash Patel has ever had any power in his life, his power came from that. That entire city was built by Israel. Miriam Adelson has served the IDF. Sheldon Adelson said his biggest regret was not having served the IDF. They’ve never been— I mean, Trump said it on stage, “She’s more loyal to Israel than she is to our country.” I mean, it’s not a secret.

Vegas is a dangerous place. People say what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Stays in Vegas and gets sent over to Tel Aviv. It’s just a city of blackmail, to be honest with you. And they’re all kind of tied there. They’re all kind of tied, in my view, to Vegas.

I mean, Andrew Kolvet, he’s from Reno. His dad did legal work on the casinos, and it’s like this thing. His brother served, it was from the Reno unit that went over and were guarding the poppy seeds in Afghanistan. That was his brother, was like Colonel Lieutenant on that. That was just poppy trafficking. After that, we had the opioid crisis. What do we think these wars are about? What did we win in Afghanistan? Poppy seeds. An opioid crisis.

Midterms, Political Theater, and the Israel Question

SHAWN RYAN: What do you think is going to happen in the midterms? Actually, let me back up. Now you see Trump speaking out against Israel. You see Vance. I don’t buy it either. You see Trump and Vance. Now all of a sudden it’s like, where the f* did this come from?

CANDACE OWENS: It all seems very performative to me, and I’m not sure why they’re moving to, I guess, this new act, so to speak, because they’re destroyed. Maybe because midterms are around the corner.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, yeah, that’s what I’m saying. I mean, they’re f*ing destroyed.

CANDACE OWENS: So they’re going to pretend he’s like Mr. Tough Guy again and standing up to Bibi. It’s all very performative.

SHAWN RYAN: You think people are going to buy this s*?

CANDACE OWENS: No.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you think Israel’s in on the act?

CANDACE OWENS: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: Me too.

CANDACE OWENS: I think you should take the Mossad at their word when they say, “We are the directors, the actors, we can infiltrate any organization, any company, we’re the scriptwriters.” I believe that.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s a 60 Minutes interview, right?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, after referring to how they were able to infiltrate and get the PETN explosive into the beepers and how they created all these fake companies with fake employees. And I think about— I hear those words, Charlie and his life, and how I think it became an Israeli Truman Show. But similar for Trump, everyone around him is just working for a higher boss, and it’s the Rothschilds and it’s Israel. So all of that is performative. I couldn’t be motivated to vote for midterms.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, me neither.

CANDACE OWENS: Especially after what we saw happen with Thomas Massie, where they’re just so in our face about it now, where they’re like, “We don’t like you. If you have a point against Israel, we’ll spend—”

SHAWN RYAN: That’s the only thing I can’t really put together in my head. We see this act, we see all of a sudden everybody’s a tough guy against Israel. Like, ah, right, okay.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: Right around the corner from midterms. But I also don’t really believe in the election system, because of all kinds of s we’ve seen. Spencer Pratt’s race, probably the most recent one. Massie’s race. So if the elections are phony, then why do they give a s about the act?

CANDACE OWENS: Because the illusion matters.

SHAWN RYAN: Why does it matter?

CANDACE OWENS: Because they need— think about if truly tomorrow they came out and said, “Your vote doesn’t mean anything. We’ve been running the election since the beginning of time. We kill people in broad daylight. Yeah, we did JFK, we did Charlie, and we’re going to keep doing whatever the hell we want. So f* you.”

SHAWN RYAN: You think something would actually happen?

There Were Always More Slaves Than Masters

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, because something Charlie said to me when we were traveling once— he said one of his little pop quizzes. “What is one thing that every civilization that has ever had slavery since the beginning of human history, what is one thing that every single one of those civilizations has in common?”

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t know.

CANDACE OWENS: I didn’t know either. And he said, “There were always more slaves than masters.” And that always stuck with me. The few are able to get all of us to behave. So what they fear is a real revolution. That’s why they always stoke the flames of internal unrest, because if all of us were in lockstep and we’re like, “Let’s go kill these pedophiles, let’s go take care of business,” that’s the biggest threat to the system— a revolution that they don’t control.

So instead they create revolutions over stupidity. Trans bathroom rights. Keep them focused and arguing about stuff that doesn’t matter at all. BLM, racial strife. “Why isn’t there a George Floyd Square?” This is fodder for idiots while they buy islands, they take up land, they destroy heritage, they rewrite history.

20 years from now, they’ll say— you already heard, I think, Jerry Seinfeld say Palestine doesn’t exist. He’s a man of the future. They’ll rewrite history. They’ll say they were the victims. It all started on October 7th. And they’ll wipe away entire identities. I mean, good for the people in Albania who are standing up to the Israeli settlers right now. Don’t know what their plan is there, something’s going on. And that’s their biggest threat. So they have to get you to believe in the illusion of elections because you have to think you can change it and that your voice matters.

Who Will Be the Next President?

SHAWN RYAN: Who do you think is going to be the next president? I mean, Polly Barker right now puts Vance at the top. And then 2 points below is Rubio and Gavin Newsom tied.

CANDACE OWENS: Rubio. What? What? Absolutely not. Well, I mean, maybe with AIPAC money, anything can happen.

SHAWN RYAN: Rubio’s Trump’s golden boy.

CANDACE OWENS: Maybe with AIPAC money, anything can happen. I’m not into political prognostications. If we had a fair system, I wouldn’t put any of those people in the bucket for who would be the next president. If we’re talking about on the Democratic side, yeah, I think they’re going to run Gavin Newsom. That’s probably accurate. But on the Republican side, there is an apathy that’s setting in, and I don’t see how Vance gets around everything Trump did. I don’t see how Vance gets around what happened in Iran. I don’t see how Vance is able to talk his way out of that.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, well, I’m going to tell you how. All these Catholics are really leaning into being Catholic now because it’s the fastest growing Christian denomination in the world. So they’re leaning into that.

CANDACE OWENS: I don’t think that’s going to be enough.

SHAWN RYAN: You don’t think so?

CANDACE OWENS: Nope.

SHAWN RYAN: They’re leaning into it pretty hard. Have you seen it?

CANDACE OWENS: I think he missed an opportunity to stand up to Trump on some of those points and his unnecessary tweet against the Pope. I don’t think that Catholics are tough.

SHAWN RYAN: I know.

CANDACE OWENS: I’m just saying. This is the one group that have not been socially engineered.

SHAWN RYAN: I’m watching.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: And they’re really trying to tap into it.

CANDACE OWENS: I don’t think it’s going to work. I think people are so much more awake. And especially— and I’m going to call this, and I don’t mean to attack Vance on this, but just more broadly speaking, the faith grift post-Charlie. People have their antennas up because that’s been the entire Turning Point thing, and it has not registered. It’s felt inauthentic.

And sure, that was like a part of the evangelical world, but there have been a lot of, I think, missed opportunities for Vance to not write about being Catholic or say he’s a Catholic, but to stand up to the stuff that’s happening in the administration that’s just downright ungodly. You bomb a school with 150 schoolgirls in it and then they lie about it, and then it’s sort of like, “Whatever, I don’t know, Bibi wanted us to do it.” I think it’s going to be hard for him to get around it.

But anything can happen in a world where elections are fake and gay. Anything can happen. Marco Rubio could be the next president of the United States, someone they can control.

Joe Kent, Military Service, and the Cost of War

SHAWN RYAN: I hope Massie runs. I hope Joe Kent runs.

CANDACE OWENS: He’s great.

SHAWN RYAN: I really like Joe Kent.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, he is fantastic. I’d like to see him run as well. And I think he— the way that he resigned and wrote about his conscience, and also the nastiness that Trump threw at him about his wife, I couldn’t— I mean, I was just absolutely shocked.

SHAWN RYAN: Nothing makes my skin crawl more than a fing piece of s that never served the fing country talking s about a guy who served the country, whose wife was fing assassinated by Al-Qaeda with one of my really good fing friends, Scotty Wirtz.

CANDACE OWENS: I’m glad he did it. I’m glad he did it because I think servicemen and women needed to see that, because that is the perspective that Israel holds of the men that serve. I believe that. It is— you are toy soldiers and we’re slaves. You’re slaves.

SHAWN RYAN: We’re slaves.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: We’re all slaves.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. I’ve had a real awakening about that.

SHAWN RYAN: We have to be tax mules sending our money to Israel and our sons and daughters to die for them.

CANDACE OWENS: And people should not serve. I’ve been strong on that. Our country’s occupied. You are not signing up to serve for the United States military. Your streets are not going to become more paved. Your streets are not going to become safer. Your schools are not going to become better. Theirs will. So if that is a draw for you, then sign up and serve the United States of Israel. But this is where we can make a difference.

SHAWN RYAN: I just had a Marine buddy in Iran get deployed, a Green Beret. I won’t even say what group he’s at. And he jokingly, but you can see it in his f*ing eyes, says, “I’m getting deployed early. I got to go fight for Israel.” And you could just— he wants out. He’s talking about—

CANDACE OWENS: Leave. Yeah. There are legal means to leave the military. And I encourage on my show every man and woman to do it because at the end of the day, the best laid plans don’t work without bodies. And I think they learned that lesson in Iran. They couldn’t get people to get behind it. That’s why they need the propaganda machine. They needed people to be behind it and they weren’t. And that terrifies them truly.

The idea of Americans not signing up for the military, that’s an existential threat. I could see it in Pete Hegseth’s eyes as he’s like, “We’re going to raise the age people can join the military.” I bet you are. What does that tell me? Numbers are low. People are waking up. So if you want to go be big bad and take over Palestine, do it with your sons and daughters.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, for a Green Beret to not want to go to war— one of the fing highest trained units in the fing United States, legit warfighters, doesn’t want to go to war because he knows it’s not for us. And he’s not the only one. It’s all of them. It’s f*ing all of them.

CANDACE OWENS: And when you get back, you could be so lucky as to have given your entire body, to have lifelong ailments, to not be able to get appointments at the VA. And if you’re really lucky— I mean really lucky— the president can tweet mocking the fact that your wife died and you got remarried serving the country.

SHAWN RYAN: Yep.

CANDACE OWENS: Who doesn’t want to sign up? Sign up today.

The Draft and Military Service

SHAWN RYAN: Well, I mean, now there’s all this talk about the draft.

CANDACE OWENS: Why? Because it’s not there. But guess what? You’re better off spending a year in jail than going to fight for Israel. So it’s like, how far are they going to take this? Are they going to be like Ukraine, dragging people off the street like thugs?

SHAWN RYAN: Probably.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s the threat that they need. You can’t— okay, you guys want it, Zionists, you’re so big and bad and powerful, send your sons and daughters. Your sons and daughters first. I will not let my boys— won’t serve. Not in this environment. It’s an honor to serve. The country that we live in right now, the occupied country that we live in right now.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, that’s how I feel. Call me if we’re getting invaded. I’m done going overseas.

CANDACE OWENS: The best thing to do is defend your neighborhoods, defend your families, build smaller communities. That’s what I encourage people to do. I’m like, learn to farm. That’s the real difference you can make.

Degree 180 and Early Writing

SHAWN RYAN: All right, Candace, we’re back from the break. Let’s get back to you. Degree 180.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, just a blog that I had when I was young. I just loved to write. I was always writing. My earliest memories of writing was like in third grade. I was writing poems as soon as I could learn to write. It felt like such an escape for me. I used to write songs and poetry. And I just still love writing. I’m like one of the rare people that actually wrote both of her books. People usually get a ghostwriter, and it’s probably my favorite pastime. Like, it’s something that I genuinely enjoy doing for me.

And so with Degree 180, I got a bunch of girls together to just put together a blog and let everybody write about whatever they wanted to write about, which is funny because now they take articles that I didn’t write but because it was like my blog— but it clearly was written by another person. It’d be like, “She operated a blog where someone said that Trump had tiny hands.” And I’m like, yeah, and someone else did a whole article bashing Hillary. Writing is expression. I let everybody write whatever they wanted to write. And so, yeah, it was just a fun passion project of mine.

Red Pill Black: The YouTube Channel

SHAWN RYAN: Where do we go from there?

CANDACE OWENS: From there, I then started making videos on YouTube. It was all pretty back to back. I launched my YouTube channel in August of 2017, right? I think is when I launched my YouTube channel as Red Pill Black, and just started when BLM stuff was heating up. I sort of was making funny videos on YouTube. And they started— they did pretty well. It would get 100,000 views here, which is great for a new content creator.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, no kidding.

CANDACE OWENS: And I did this little funny skit, “Mom, Dad, I’m a Conservative,” which I wrote. My cousin, who I was telling you was the person that was with me the most when I was really sick— I was just kind of coming out of that— she recorded it. I wrote it, and we just shot it, and it did pretty well.

And then I think it was like the third video I did. There’s an account online, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Anomaly. He lifted the video and it was me discussing Black Lives Matter, I think it was. And he put it onto Facebook and it got 26 million views.

SHAWN RYAN: 26 million views.

CANDACE OWENS: I mean, it went absolutely viral.

SHAWN RYAN: And that’s your third video.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I don’t know if it was about BLM actually. It was my third video and it was about— I can’t remember what the topic was, which is so crazy to me, but it just went completely viral. And then I got the call from Fox News. It was Jesse Watters’ team that said, “Come on Watters’ World.” And the rest really was history.

I got an invite to go— it all happened so quickly. It was unbelievable. After doing Fox News, I then got an invite to go down to David Horowitz’s Freedom Center. And that’s where I met Charlie. And people told him he had to hire me. Like after I gave my little presentation, I was just on a panel talking about my experience. And, yeah, it went—

Connecting with Charlie Kirk and Turning Point USA

SHAWN RYAN: So you started your own YouTube channel, did 3 videos, then you get connected with Charlie Kirk.

CANDACE OWENS: That is the truth. It, I mean, in that order, it was— it must have been my 3rd or 4th video. It was super quick, and I can’t remember the topic. Maybe it was feminism. It was, you know, just some topic that I was riffing on. It just went absolutely viral, got 26 million views.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you still— is that video still up?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, it’s still the same YouTube channel. You can go back and watch the early days, skits with very poor quality camera, just doing it from my granddad’s house. It was just literally me and my cousin, and I was like, “Can you hold the camera? I’m just going to film something.” And then I edited it myself. And put it up as Red Pill Black was the moniker I was using. And it was fun, it was very fun.

And then I just sort of started doing videos talking about various topics, and then Charlie hired me to do the same thing for Turning Point USA, and then to be the communications director, because I think he thought, “She’s good at communicating and she’s able to get all these people to watch her videos.” And we just then had an absolute blast. I mean, we were traveling everywhere, the entire country, other countries, just building, building, building, building.

SHAWN RYAN: What channel is this on? Which channel is the channel called? Red Pill?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, you know, you can just name your YouTube channel whatever you want. The Shawn Ryan Show. I just named mine Red Pill Black because I was thinking like, “Oh, here’s a red pill for Black America,” was kind of my thought process there. And then I think it was Charlie who told me, “You don’t want to have people meeting you and going, ‘Oh, you’re Red Pill Black,’ you know, you want to use your name.” And it’s like, okay. So I just switched the channel name over to Candace Owens. And, yeah, I still have—

SHAWN RYAN: Is that your channel or is that Daily Wire’s channel?

CANDACE OWENS: No, I had to pause my channel. I really kind of paused it when I started working for Turning Point USA because then I was making videos for them. And so you’ll see that gap. I kind of only made a few videos really and then completely stopped and was doing work for Turning Point USA and still making videos but making the content for them. So it was TPUSA videos really. About various topics, which were still doing very well, and then had kind of the firepower of— I don’t have to edit my own videos and things of that nature. And then when I took the job at— and I was at PragerU, so I might—

SHAWN RYAN: Hold on, hold on. So how— I mean, I know you and Charlie were obviously very close. How fast did that relationship develop?

CANDACE OWENS: Right away, because it was such a small organization. I mean, this is before they had the offices in Arizona, right? So Turning Point was small. If I remember correctly, and people could obviously go back, it’s a public company, but they were under $10 million a year, I think, when— I want to say like they had cleared like $6 million a year maybe.

And it was fun. I like when it’s a small company and it feels like a startup. It’s really fun. You gotta work harder, sleep less, but that’s when the best memories are made. And Charlie was wired to work like that, and I, just from my grandfather, am wired to work like that. And so we just lived out of a suitcase, doing every possible event.

Charlie had this thing where you do every single Fox News show. So we were up at the crack of dawn to do Fox and Friends First, which is in the 4 o’clock AM hour. Wherever we were, because they have their little studios that you can run to and do a hit, to staying up until you finally got the call to do one of the big ones, which for us at the time, it was— you get the call to do Laura Ingraham or Tucker Carlson. We were like, or Sean— not Sean Ryan. I almost said Sean Ryan. Did you see how naturally I was like Sean? That’s not Sean Ryan. I can’t believe I’m blanking on his name now. That’s ridiculous. Sean on Fox News.

SHAWN RYAN: Hannity.

The Early Days: Building Something Together

CANDACE OWENS: Hannity. Gosh, I was like, why can I not think of his name? It’s because of you, because you’re in front of me. Or Sean Hannity. That was what you were building up toward. And so Charlie was always like, you want to do every show because the producers for the other show are watching this show. And if you’re good on this show, he had this whole map of how it was going to work. And so he’s like, you never say no to any show. And so we did every Fox News show, every hit. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We’ll do it.

While trekking throughout the United States, living out of a suitcase, the cheapest hotel rooms imaginable. Literally, the room— the walls were so thin. A lot of them were airport hotels. I could just hear Charlie turning on the shower. I could hear Charlie snoring. There’s just a thin— it almost was like a sheet of paper between our rooms.

And it was fun. I mean, there are so many just little things like that I reflect on now that are just so funny. Like if you get somewhere and then suddenly your suitcase didn’t come through and you’re going home. I said we’d have to get up at the crack of dawn, find the earliest Walmart, buy a blazer so that we could do the Fox News hit at 6 a.m. And it was madness.

A lot of coffee, a lot of Chipotle. So much Chipotle. We ate so much Chipotle. I can’t believe I don’t have stock in that company. And we kept being like, they have got to hire us to— they have to do an ad agreement with us or something because we’re eating this much of it. Drinking a ton of Starbucks.

And yeah, I mean, just really traveling with someone is the fastest way to get to know someone. I can tell you that for free. You really get to see the person, you know what I mean? There’s no glam in traveling like that. And who they are in the morning time, nighttime, how they pack their suitcase. Sometimes you get to a room and his room’s ready and my room’s not. And so, “Oh, but I’m exhausted. I need to take a nap.” And so he’s like, “I’m going to go for a run. You can go nap in my room.” Then we’re exchanging. And so, yeah, you get to see people at their worst.

And at the same time, I think one of the things that made me and Charlie so close, because I think about why we sort of had this unbreakable bond despite everything. And if you think about your life, who are the people that you actually feel the closest to? It’s people that you grow up with. Right? Like, there’s something about those early relationships. And I think about the people that I went to high school with. There’s something— they’re so— it’s so unique and so special because it’s a coming of age. And it was the same with Charlie. We had a certain type of coming of age together in politics. Neither of us was very well known, right? We were very idealistic about what politics was. We thought we could change things.

SHAWN RYAN: How old were you when you started turning?

CANDACE OWENS: I was older, a lot older than Charlie was. I was 26.

SHAWN RYAN: 26?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. And I want to say Charlie was 20. Don’t quote me on this. I feel like I was 26 when I started making my videos, but I might not have been. And then Charlie would have been like 21. I have to figure that out. But that sounds about right to me.

SHAWN RYAN: Maybe they’re still kind of growing up together at that.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, but it’s so different though when it’s growing up. Then there’s like that growing up that happens.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, you also knew each other before, before it all happened.

A Coming of Age in Politics

CANDACE OWENS: That’s what I mean. We weren’t well known. Neither of us was well known. Like when I started working for Turning Point USA, I didn’t have even 10,000 followers on— I think I had, but maybe I got like 30,000 followers on X, people that were following my videos. So I wasn’t well known, Charlie wasn’t well known, and we were trying to build something. And we thought we could really change things.

So there’s an innocence there too where you’re like, wow, we’re in the excitement of looking back on the messages like Don Trump Jr. just retweeted me, you know what I mean? Like, he knows I exist. And this person just retweeted me, and so-and-so, Laura Ingraham just asked me to do her show for the first time. And there’s an innocence even looking back and reflecting. And Charlie’s like, by this time next year, you’re going to have 100,000 followers, right? And so there was a coming of age, I think, is what made us so close.

And then also realizing, whoa, politics is really nasty business. And then people that, because we were so naturally trusting and we thought that this could be a fair game, like we’re going to work hard. And Charlie used to always say, “We can always— the one thing we can control— we can always outwork our opponents. That’s the one thing in our control.” And we did, we outworked them. And that’s how we climbed.

And the moment of then Kanye tweeting me— never forget that morning. I was just in tears, calling Charlie and just being like, we made this happen. And everything really sort of exploded after that.

But that’s what it is, I think, is it’s a coming of age, and you can’t rip that away. You can’t rip that away to see people in that environment and watch them come up and watch them navigate so many snakes and to earn where they are. Like, Charlie earned that, and I fought, and I earned that. And then to watch people cut his life short, and then to watch people who didn’t earn it say it’s mine now. Yeah, I don’t know, it just doesn’t work for me.

SHAWN RYAN: What was the goal back then? What were you guys doing?

The Mission: Changing Black America and Building Conservatism

CANDACE OWENS: Well, my goal was to change Black America. And I’m laughing because it just seems like my view, my worldview, was so small in realizing what the problem was. It’s like, I’m going to get Black America to realize that the Democrats are lying to them about Black Lives Matter and keeping us focused on race issues because we’re not ever going to get ahead. But it’s so much bigger than Black America. It’s all of America and all of us focused on various issues. And so that was like my micro issue. I cared deeply about wanting to wake up Black America. And also I was pretty passionate about the feminism thing too.

Charlie truly wanted to rebuild the RNC and make it palatable for the youth and build an organization based on free markets and capitalism. And showing the youth that, actually it’s kind of cool to have a brain when you’re young too, and to make conservatism hip, I guess, amongst a very liberal organ of college campuses. And he did that. He did that.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s what it was back then. It was going to campuses.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, it was all about building— disrupting college campuses, which had become sort of these centers for indoctrination. And we just felt like we could change that, like we could change the world. And maybe one day Charlie was going to be president.

I know his biggest goal at that time was he used to listen to Rush Limbaugh. Like, Rush Limbaugh was his Roman Empire. He loved Rush Limbaugh. And so the way that I felt when Kanye tweeted me, because I was always more cultural and I knew what Kanye meant to culture for people like me who grew up and didn’t know if you’d sort of ever— I don’t know, get out of the thing, sort of, so to speak. For him, he felt that way about Rush Limbaugh.

And so when Rush Limbaugh said on his radio show, mentioned there’s this young guy, Charlie Kirk, I mean, Charlie was like made. Like, that was his moment— he listened to Rush Limbaugh every day on the drive to school when he was young. So that’s who sort of shaped his ideas.

So I should say actually two people who I know who were conservative when they were young. Charlie, too, apparently. Some things, like my husband, like, what do you mean you weren’t liberal when you were young? It sounds so much more fun. But Charlie was— these are like these boy genius or whatever. And so he was really shaped by Rush Limbaugh.

And yeah, by the end of his life, he would know Rush Limbaugh, like, just pick up the phone and call him. And he wanted to one day have a radio show. He was like, you realize every day, day in, day out, just 3 hours of radio and the grind of that. And he wanted to one day have his own show, Charlie, and be like Rush Limbaugh.

And so when he finally did it, when he did the Charlie Kirk Show and it was doing so well, I knew that he would crush it because I was like, this is— he was so passionate about building this. And it’s also why it positively disgusts me to see what the show has become. Because it is the opposite of what Charlie wanted it to be. It’s the opposite of what inspired him. It’s the opposite of what Rush Limbaugh was. But that’s why it’s not doing well, because nothing that’s not real will survive.

The Maroon Shirts

SHAWN RYAN: My editor in there wanted me to ask you about the maroon shirts.

CANDACE OWENS: The maroon shirts.

SHAWN RYAN: The maroon shirts. Do you know anything about this?

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. No, I was the person who brought it to attention, they laughed at me. And I know nothing about the military, but when I looked at the footage of Charlie, and what happened on September 10th, it struck me as highly unusual that there were so many men wearing maroon shirts. Like, it’s not exactly a color that men wear all the time. And there were a lot of men, all of whom were alone, I might add, who went to just hear Charlie Kirk speak alone, and they were wearing maroon shirts.

And I just said to myself, this feels like organization to me. Like, they’re wearing maroon shirts to identify each other. And lo and behold, I then learned from military men that when they do operations, it’s a way for— like, they’ll have a color of the day, which is a way for them to identify each other if they’re doing something, whether it’s covert operations or whatever. And I believe that those boys that were wearing maroon shirts were all a part of the same— I don’t know if it’s going to be like an overseas battalion, whatever it is, that they’re an identifier.

And I even saw— I have a tape of one person after the shot goes off bending down low and handing another guy a maroon shirt, which is even crazier, which I haven’t even— I don’t even think I spoke about on my show. That just hands him a maroon shirt. Caught on just the very bottom of the camera. And I’m like, pass around a maroon shirt after a shot goes off. That feels kind of weird.

So there was an element, which makes sense, that you would color coordinate so you know where to look. Men just don’t wear maroon that often is what I would say.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow. Why did you wind up— I mean, it sounds like you really liked working there. Why did you leave?

Turning Point USA, the Kanye Effect, and the Hitler Nationalism Controversy

CANDACE OWENS: Turning Point changed. After the— I mean, it was a couple of factors at play, but Turning Point, like I said to you, I always love a startup vibe. It’s fun, there’s more freedom. And after the Kanye tweet— and I’m saying this reflectively, hindsight is 20/20— everything changed. Like, Turning Point was suddenly on the map. Kanye put it on the map, whether people want to recognize that or not. Suddenly everyone’s going, “Who is this Candace Owens? I love the way Candace Owens thinks. Well, Candace Owens working for Turning Point USA.” And suddenly money started coming in. They started telling, Charlie needed the PR person, he needed this person, he needed to get this woman Stacy Sheridan in donations. I mean, just like the whole thing became much more corporatized.

And I had warned Charlie about— I didn’t like some of the characters that were being brought around him, and I didn’t love the 501 world in general. It goes against my natural character. Charlie was such a great diplomat, and he would take the abuses from the donors. The bigger the check, the more control is what I recognized very quickly. And that’s not a game that I think I’m naturally made to play.

And so a point arrived where— and in retrospect, it’s interesting— somebody had pulled an old tape of me and presented it out of context, of me and Charlie in London. Where we were asked a question about nationalism. They stripped the question and they made it look like I was on stage preaching about Hitler, and saying if Hitler just wanted to be in Germany, that’d be great. But what I was saying was— they said, “Doesn’t nationalism feel like a dirty word? Like, how can you say you’re a nationalist?” And I was like, “Hitler wasn’t a nationalist. If Hitler was like, ‘Hey, I just want to be in Germany and make America great,’ like, that wouldn’t be problematic. He was a globalist. He had global aspirations.”

Long story short, they made this video go viral out of nowhere, and I always now go back to that and I wonder who did that. And suddenly, a Jewish group issued a thing saying that I was anti-Semitic. It was so crazy. And donors were calling him, telling him that he needed to pull back away from me. It’s so funny to think that this was another Zionist scandal.

And I was so shocked at this time because I had— I mean, I just grew up in a very Jewish— I had never been accused of being an anti-Semite.

SHAWN RYAN: You were— this was— yeah, way before.

The Simon Wiesenthal Center and PragerU

CANDACE OWENS: Oh my gosh, before. I mean, I was genuinely hurt. And that’s how it feels the first time you’re called something that you’re not, before you realize it’s a political game, right? When someone’s first like, “You’re a racist,” or “You’re an anti-Semite,” it is so shocking. I had Jewish best friends growing up. I was just going like, “How would they ever say this? Why would BuzzFeed make this video go viral? Why is there suddenly this group—” and I can’t remember, it was the Simon Wiesenthal Center who issued a strong condemnation, and they have a lot of power— about my words?

And I’m like, “Why are they all intentionally not showing the full remarks of what I was answering to?” I didn’t even say Jewish, nothing. It just was about— the question was, was Hitler a nationalist? Can we be nationalistic without being accused of being Adolf Hitler? There were journalists in the room, there was no issue with it, and somebody very clearly went back and tried to find what they could scandalize.

And I now have the perspective that this was an intentional scandal that was made whole cloth out of thin air, to put pressure behind Charlie and to sort of pull us apart in a weird way. And so anyway, I was genuinely apologizing, going, “This is what I meant, here’s the full context, here’s the full video.”

And at the same time, who arrived into my life and made me an offer and was like, “We can help you fix this,” was Prager University, a Jewish organization. And that arrived as like— and they offered me much more money than I was making at Turning Point USA. And so it seemed like a perfect— I had just gotten engaged as well, and so my ability to kind of travel the country and do those things. So it seemed like a perfect storm to kind of take the next step.

And sure enough, I went to LA to meet with them. And this is now one of the stranger things that’s ever happened, and I didn’t think of it at the time. I was totally just baffled by the scandal. Marissa, the CEO of PragerU, took me to the Simon Wiesenthal Center. She said she could help make this go away or whatever, and she took me to the Simon Wiesenthal Center. And there was this guy— I’m going to say he was like a chief rabbi, I don’t know. He was dressed— he was very much the guy, if you know what I mean. They didn’t speak a word of English, they spoke fluently in Hebrew. I just sat in the room as they spoke, and they went back and forth speaking in Hebrew. And then Marissa and I left, and she said everything was going to be fine. And the scandal went away.

SHAWN RYAN: What?

CANDACE OWENS: It sounds so crazy that I did not even appreciate that it was crazy at the time because I just was like, “Thank you, friend, because I can’t believe anybody would ever think I was antisemitic.” And so I was so grateful and I thought she was using her contacts and being— because the Simon Wiesenthal Center had issued this whatever. And that she was coming in to basically tell them it’s not true. I don’t know what they were saying. Went away. Now I’m like, was it like, “I’ll handle this, we’ve pulled them apart, it’s all good?”

SHAWN RYAN: Why do you think you were targeted? Why do you think you were targeted to begin with?

The Orchestrated Takeover of Turning Point USA

CANDACE OWENS: I think there is— and I’m fully just reflecting on the way things went down— Erika came into Charlie’s life, a bunch of people were suddenly being put into Turning Point USA. Girlfriend, Stacy Sheridan, “She’s going to raise more money and take things to the next level.” Andrew Kolvet, “You need real PR now.” I mean, just like all of these characters, like a Hollywood cast was suddenly assembled. And I think there was a real panic about the power of any organization. You hit a level and they start paying attention. And I think the Kanye tweet put us on the map. They started paying attention. “This could be a very powerful political organization. We need to make sure that it’s within our control.”

SHAWN RYAN: Gotcha.

CANDACE OWENS: And I was always—

SHAWN RYAN: Presented you PragerU to control you.

Life at PragerU

CANDACE OWENS: That is my perspective in retrospect, and I did not have that perspective while I was there. And I also want to make it very clear, I had a very good working relationship there. I will say they were always honest about who they were. Like, they’re Zionists. Marissa’s former Mossad, you know. So they were never trying to pretend that they had— like, they were open to a different perspective on Israel or anything like that. They were upfront about who they were and what their priorities were. And Marissa was very kind. Like, if she was a handler, she was damn good. That’s why she probably was in the Mossad. The best kind of handler is one you think is your friend.

And she was there for me through a really tough personal time in my life as well. And so that was a hard relationship for me to mourn in many ways because I’m naturally not looking— I don’t open up to people about tough things that I go through. And she was there for me for a really tough time. We had a perfect working relationship, so I don’t want people to think that because of where I’m at right now, you go backwards and you’re like, “Oh, well, things were not—” No, it was like they were fantastic. They ran very professionally. I had a great relationship with their COO, Lane Thrasher. They were all just great. I mean, I don’t know what to say. I had a perfect— she never wanted to talk about contracts. She was like, “If you don’t want to be here, then you should go. It’s not going to work for me to hold you here like you’re a prisoner.” I loved PragerU. It was great. Did that for a couple years. Then again, kind of like a new season of life. Had my first kid. Now—

SHAWN RYAN: Hold on, hold on. Let’s go back. How’d you meet your husband?

Meeting George Farmer: A Love Story

CANDACE OWENS: Charlie. With Charlie. This is a crazy story, but the same exact week that Charlie was having these dreams about dying, or where he was really deeply talking to me about it— I mean, he had the dreams over and over again, he said. From a time he signed with Turning Point. But he was like— it was a lot of things happened that week.

One, by the end of the week, Kanye tweeted me. Two, I had this over— in the same way he was like, “I’m going to die,” I was just like, “We should go to— we need to get to London, we need to go to the UK.” No reason, we had no reason, no rhyme or reason to go to the UK. And I just started hammering him in role, being like, “We need to go to the UK, we need to go to the UK, we need to go to the UK.”

June comes around, I’m sorry, I’m hammering him, “We need to go to the UK.” He’s like, “For what?” And I’m just like, “Just make up something to be there. I just feel like pulled to go to the UK.” I have the messages, it’s so crazy to read back.

And so eventually I am feeling so pulled to go to the UK that I say to him, “Give me your credit card, I’m just going to book the flights because then you’ll be forced to just make a reason for us to go to the UK.” And I did it. And I had never done that, never booked flights, never taken his card, and I was like, “Now we’re going to the UK, so find something for us to do.”

And he was like, “Well, I’ve been wanting to build out Turning Point UK and kind of build out this international thing.” And so we were hosted by who are now dear friends to us, John Mappin and Irina Mappin. Charlie had been emailing with them, and they said, “We’d love to host you because we need Turning Point in the UK.”

And I spoke. This is also the same event that they would eventually pull the out-of-context comments from. So this is December, and then they would pull these comments in March of the following year. And he got together a great group, and I presented on stage, and my husband was in the audience. And I just sort of looked at him and thought he was really cute. And at the end, he came up to me and he said, “Hi, I’m George Farmer.” And I was like, George Farmer’s pretty cute. And that was it. Never going to probably see him again.

Next day I had a podcast, Russell Brand. Go out to the countryside, book the— you know, as much media as possible. And then Russell Brand went over. It was like 3 hours. And my assistant somehow had a miscommunication with PJW. There was going to be this Turning Point UK launch dinner where a bunch of political players were going to be brought to the room, and PJW was supposed to be— unbeknownst to me, I don’t know if you know who he is, he’s a YouTuber in the UK. Long story short, I didn’t know it was happening. Like, it was not in me and Charlie’s calendar. We had no idea it was happening.

I was going to go do Russell Brand. Charlie did some press down there. Back in London, I’m in the countryside, and then we met back up to do another media event. I suddenly realized— I am told by my assistant that I’m running 3 hours late to a dinner that I didn’t even know was happening. So me and Charlie jump into a taxi, book it, and are like, “My God, how could this miscommunication have happened?” Important political players, a nice small intimate dinner of like maybe 18, maybe even smaller, maybe like 15 people.

And I walk into this dinner and George Farmer is hosting the dinner because he wanted to get behind Turning Point UK because him and his father were very involved with Brexit at the time. And his father was at one time the treasurer for the Tory party. So they were involved in politics and he just thought Turning Point UK was a great idea, and he was helping his friend PJW put together a little dinner for Charlie and Candace.

And so we arrived 3 hours late to this dinner, and George Farmer is there, and I see him. And at this point, because his friends were like, “Mate, are they even coming?” He’s just plying everyone at the table with alcohol because he’s humiliated that nobody’s— and he doesn’t know what’s happening because he’s not talking to me, and we had no idea it was happening.

So Charlie and I get there. Like, this is so out of our character. We would never show up somewhere late. I don’t know where the ball got dropped. I blame PJW, and so does George. And we immediately just went around the table and I just said sorry to every single person, obviously, “Thank you, thank you for being here.” We sit down, I sit down next to my husband, future husband, and I’m telling you, I just looked at his face and I knew he was my— it was the craziest thing. I just knew he was my husband.

And he didn’t speak to me, barely, because he was thinking the same thing. Like, he knew that I was his wife and had already texted his friend after hearing me speak the night before. And he wrote in writing, “I’m going to marry Candace Owens.” And his friend, who was the best man in our wedding, was like, “Mate, you’re an idiot.” He read this the night before our dinner, read the messages, and the exact same thing was happening for me. And I’m saying to my assistant, “George Farmer’s my husband.”

And we didn’t say anything. He was then too nervous. So I spoke to his best friend, Nick, who was the best man in our wedding. He chatted with him the whole time. And I’m just sitting here like, “Man, I really want to talk to this George Farmer. He’s just so cute.”

And he said a couple of words and then at the end sent me a message on WhatsApp and said, “Thank you so much for coming to church tonight.” And I was like, “You should come to the Student Action Summit, which is going to be next week in Palm Beach.”

Had no idea if he had a girlfriend, was really hoping he didn’t because he was my husband, so it’d be weird if he had a girlfriend, right? It would be so weird if I found out my husband had a girlfriend. And he flew over with a girlfriend of his and the whole time I’m just trying to figure out— we’re doing SaaS, all this is going on, and we just kind of put them in our group. And I’m just trying to figure out if those two are dating, like if my husband has a girlfriend.

And there was this donor to Turning Point USA. I used to stay at her house when we had an event in Palm Beach. And she’s older. She was like 75. And, you know, she’s at the age where they don’t care what they say.

SHAWN RYAN: Mm-hmm.

The Proposal: 18 Days to Engagement

CANDACE OWENS: And she’s like, “You two would be so cute together.” And I’m sitting here like— so I did this thing that I’m telling you I’ve never done. This is so funny. And we had the event at Mar-a-Lago. I remember the dress I was wearing. And then he shows up wearing like a cummerbund— English men in their suits, right? So he shows up like James Bond, and I’m like, “Okay, everybody stop, that’s my husband.” Like, obviously, in my head I’m just like, “This is crazy.” My husband in a suit just shuts everything down.

And I’m just sitting here, and afterward we went to the Breakers and we had a conversation, and we just— the conversation just completely flowed. We were actually talking about Vladimir Putin, which is really funny, and we were talking about planes and overcharging for suitcases. And I’m still thinking like, “Okay, I don’t think he’s dating this girl,” because she was there and we were kind of, you know, talking.

And so I went back to the donor’s house and I was like, “I am going to message him and see if he wants to meet up for—” what do you call when you have a late night? There’s a fancy expression for it, like to have a cocktail late night. What do they say? I don’t know what people call it. There’s a nice fancy way to say it, whatever. But I’m like, “I’m going to text him, okay? Here’s how I’m going to figure it out. I’m going to text him and see if he wants to meet up in the lobby of the hotel, and I’m going to shoot my shot. And if he answers, then okay, there was definitely something there. And if he doesn’t answer, then there was nothing, okay?”

And so I texted him. I just texted my husband— to who I thought was my husband in my head. And I’m like, “Hey, do you want to go grab a— in the lobby or whatever of the hotel?” No response. I got no response.

Going backward and going over this together, he was like, “I was just knocked out sleeping.” And I’m like, “Oh my gosh, he’s dating that girl. He’s totally dating that girl. I’m an idiot.” And so, yeah, I was like, “Okay.”

And then the next day we went to the donor’s house again, and she was just like, “You guys make such a cute couple.” And I was getting all these signs. And then after he left, he called me and we talked on the phone for like 3 hours. And I was like, “Okay, well, he didn’t have a girlfriend,” the whole thing. And then he told me, “I just fell asleep. I’m so sorry I missed your text message.”

I was like, if you knew the thought and the emotion and everything that went behind this— like, I never do this. I didn’t even drink at the time, by the way. Like, I was just making up an excuse to see him. And he had just passed out. And I was like, “He’s probably with that girl.” Like, all the girly emotions, and none of that was happening.

And so, yeah, we then spoke every day on the phone. Obviously he was back in the UK, and then he proposed to me. On a plane. We hadn’t even had our first kiss. So I’m one of the—

SHAWN RYAN: Hadn’t even had your first kiss?

CANDACE OWENS: No, like, how could we? He was in the UK. So he proposed to me. People thought we were totally insane. His friends thought he was insane. Everyone thought I was insane. But my sisters were like, “This is the most Candace thing I’ve ever heard, ever.”

SHAWN RYAN: Wait, how much time from you met him to engagement?

CANDACE OWENS: 18 days.

SHAWN RYAN: 18 days. Wow. How long have you guys been married now?

CANDACE OWENS: 7 years.

SHAWN RYAN: 7 years.

CANDACE OWENS: 7 years. Baby number 5 on the way.

SHAWN RYAN: Congratulations.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you. Yeah, so it was— I can’t even explain the pull that pulled me to the UK. And when I saw him, I mean, I don’t know if I dreamed it. I mean, some things are just so metaphysical. We don’t understand the world and the way it works. But I knew he was my husband, and everyone was wrong.

I was like, “No, that’s obviously my husband.” And the way that I describe how I felt— and I will be such a hypocrite, by the way, in the future when my daughter pulls this. I feel like my daughter someday is going to watch this episode and be like, “You and Dad fell in love.” When you’re watching and you’re 20, however old you are, Louise, you’re not allowed to meet any guy like this. You’re not allowed to get married after 18 days. This only applies for me. I’m going to be a total hypocrite.

The only way that I can describe the way I felt is it felt like a sigh of relief. Like, “Oh, there he is. Like, everything’s going to be okay now. He’s there.”

SHAWN RYAN: What’s the secret to a successful marriage?

Marriage, Family, and Life After Daily Wire

CANDACE OWENS: Gosh, the secret to a successful marriage. I feel in some ways I have been just so blessed by God to just have a really easy marriage. Because I hear, everyone wants to know what the secret is. And I think it’s— the secret is loving the person you married, like genuinely enjoying them, like genuinely being fascinated by them, like wanting to aspire to them, wanting to know them, every layer of them. And wanting to learn from them, having just a deep reverence for the person that you’re marrying, like aside from just being giddy and in love with them.

And I’m totally obsessed with my husband. I just genuinely am. And that’s the best feeling in the world. I feel like I cheated in life somehow, like that I just got to marry the person of my dreams who wears a suit like James Bond. Like, he’s just perfect in every way. And the best thing is just to see who he became after we had kids. Like, men, you unlock something. And I’m sure it comes from, “I’m a dad.” You know what I mean?

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

CANDACE OWENS: I got to figure this thing out. And we have a lot of boys. So I think there’s even more pressure applied of, I now need to be the model of the father. Like, I’m a father. What kind of a father do I want to be? Because that’s going to impact my boys. And he loves his dad, and I think he felt the pressure of wanting to be who his dad was to him. And this pressure just created a diamond, you know?

So he has just— I’m just amazed at him. He’s just one of those people who has a brain for everything. I know what I’m good at. I’m good at communication. I’m good at writing. I understand marketing. But he can just learn any subject in a day and then suddenly fully comprehend it. I mean, you could talk to my husband about any subject. It’s unbelievable. So I just adore him. I think that’s kind of the secret, is adoring the person. Because it’s been really easy for us, which sounds crazy because on the external it’s like just a constant hurricane, a constant tornado.

But to see, especially during the year of the Daily Wire stuff, how he just built it — he never podcasted, understood it, did the ads, redid the contracts — just, “All right, I got to figure this out, whatever.” And I could have never survived that year without my husband.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, he’s a genius. He really is.

SHAWN RYAN: Baby number 5 is on the way.

CANDACE OWENS: 5. I’ve just been in a constant state of pregnancy, like an elephant. Elephants are pregnant for 2 years. I feel like I’ve just been pregnant for a long time, but I’m blessed with very easy pregnancies. And we didn’t realize how much we were going to love being parents too. Like, that was something that surprised us.

I don’t know, you hear so much about marriage, be careful when you get married, and I feel like there’s so much nonsense out there, like you’re walking a plank or something. And I feel like my life began when I got married and when I had kids. And our kids are just the best. My kids are awesome. They’re so funny and they’re kind and they’re so smart. I know I sound like I’m biased, but I really do have the best kids. Someone has to have them, right? Someone has to have them and it’s me.

And we just love it. We love being parents, the happiness that comes from it and the security that comes from it. Like, they’re getting security from you, but you’re getting real security from them and realizing suddenly what matters. It changes everything. And I laugh at that younger Candace who’s like, “Whoa, this person retweeted me, that’s the goal. Whoa, I’m going to do this show tonight.” And now it’s, how fast can I get home? So-and-so did this today — like texting each other, the stories of little conversations, watching children contend with the world and try to reason and the oversimplification, the beauty of the oversimplification of a child’s mind. It’s so special. It really is.

And now I get to work from home because — thank you, Daily Wire. I think the blessing of that—

SHAWN RYAN: One thing I wasn’t expecting to hear today is a thank you to the Daily Wire from Candace Owens.

CANDACE OWENS: I owe them so much. I owe them so much for ripping the carpet from under my feet in the most glorious way possible. I mean, God is always looking out. I look back on that and you just don’t doubt what God’s doing, even things that you’re like, “Why, why, why?” Well, you’re not meant to know right now, Candace. And then God just showing me that he just was throwing me a lifeboat, you know? “Now is a good time to get out of there.” So I have no regrets.

SHAWN RYAN: Good for you.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

Blexit, Brandon Tatum, and Turning Point USA

SHAWN RYAN: You brought up, I think it’s Blexit.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: What is Blexit?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, Blexit is what I was building alongside Charlie when I was really focused on wanting to motivate Black people to wake up to the Democrat Party.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

CANDACE OWENS: And so that kind of happened in Kanye season. And then when I realized I did not want to do not-for-profit and I loved podcasting, which I got to do with PragerU, I sold Blexit back to Turning Point USA because I also just couldn’t do it all. Having gotten married and being pregnant, I was like, I don’t want to do not-for-profit and do a podcast and do all this stuff. So it allowed me to focus on podcasting, which I just found a knack for. I really love conversing with people and communicating, and I’ve got my dream job, so to speak, right now because I get to do it for myself.

SHAWN RYAN: And you did that with Brandon Tatum? Is that the former police officer? Are you guys still tight?

CANDACE OWENS: You know, Brandon, I always say, is like a brother to me. And I think it’s that same coming-of-age thing. He was there — Brandon, me, Charlie — doing stuff together, building something. We obviously have very strong disagreements on Zionism and Israel and how Charlie Kirk handled things. And I need to be able to sit down face to face with him, which has been hard, just because we’re on opposite sides of the— and we’ve spoken on the phone a few times, but then he’s got— I’m stepping into dinner and, I have a very, very strict policy about when you have a real relationship with somebody, doing stuff for the public. And there’s a lot that I need to talk to Brandon about. I need to try to understand where he’s at, and I’m sure he feels the same way.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, it’s good to hear that somebody can disagree with you and still be friends.

CANDACE OWENS: Well, it was just a real relationship, and my family loves Brandon. So it’s—

SHAWN RYAN: You—

CANDACE OWENS: I think you’re less of a person when you allow politics to decide who you’re friends with. And I have felt that test real close to the fire with the Kanye stuff. What Daily Wire put me through behind the scenes, wanting me to make a public statement about him, and I didn’t do it, and they took millions away from me. They literally had money on the table.

SHAWN RYAN: What do you mean?

Jeremy Boring and the Daily Wire Culture

CANDACE OWENS: It’s actually one of the funniest things because the former CEO has just been on like a podcast tour just making up — it’s almost fantasy stories about me, but I guess no one wants to book him unless he does it.

SHAWN RYAN: Jeremy Boring.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, it’s been the most pathetic thing. I don’t even reply anymore because everyone in the comments is just like, “You are boring.”

SHAWN RYAN: I’ll tell you, some of my favorite recent pastimes are hearing the stories of Jeremy Boring running around the f*ing Daily Wire with a baseball bat, getting hair and makeup done.

CANDACE OWENS: That’s all true.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, because he wasn’t even on camera, right? And he would get his hair and makeup.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, that is all 1,000% true. The stories, any stories you hear about him, as loony as it sounds, it’s all very real. He was a total nutcase.

SHAWN RYAN: It’s like I was telling you at breakfast — when I hear the story, I don’t want to mention anybody’s names because I don’t want to throw anybody under the bus, but it sounds like the ’90s movie Office Space.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s like a sitcom.

SHAWN RYAN: Like identical.

CANDACE OWENS: It is a sitcom. It’s weird. Like you look back on it and everyone will tell you — this is what he did. He’d come in and have people wash his hair plugs and do his makeup and style him to be the CEO, just to go into his office and be the CEO.

SHAWN RYAN: Everywhere I go, people are talking about Jeremy Boring and Ben Shapiro because suddenly right around Nashville, there’s all these unemployed Daily Wire people running around. And they’re f*ing pissed. Because they’re talking a lot. It’s like, it didn’t have to be like that, I think, also.

CANDACE OWENS: And he just ran it like a cult. It was very strange. I mean, he’s just not a real person, I guess, is the best way to put it. He’s a character. He’s like a cartoon character. And one of the funniest reimaginations is — because no one wants to book him, he has nothing to talk about, he has no talent — he sort of does this thing where he’s just been on a year-long tour of, “My worst regret is hiring Candace Owens.” And yeah, it’s all he can talk about.

SHAWN RYAN: I can’t believe the stuff they pulled with Brett Cooper. Like, how old was Brett when she left there?

CANDACE OWENS: Like f*ing 21, 22?

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, yeah. You treat a 21-year-old woman, girl, like that? What the f*?

CANDACE OWENS: It’s a cult problem, man. She wanted to leave. How do you leave a cult? “We got to destroy you on the way out.”

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, they would just fing torment her every day. Every fing day.

CANDACE OWENS: I’m assuming she opened up to you about what went on legally.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, somebody did.

CANDACE OWENS: Jeremy did that personally. I mean, he’s vicious. He’s a closeted gay man, and he is extraordinarily vicious. So to see him try to sort of reintroduce himself— when I hear the story about—

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t know if it was the day after you left or when you got fired or whatever, and they had everybody come out and they’re like, “Nobody f*ing cheer.” And then they come out and everybody cheers. Like, “Shut up, stop cheering.”

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, no clapping. I’ve heard this already now. Everyone was like, it was totally nutty. But if you know Jeremy, that’s Jeremy. He always has to build a stage and give a performance of everything, including a firing. It is a sitcom.

SHAWN RYAN: I think they ran around and took everybody’s phones and stuff too.

CANDACE OWENS: Maybe they made them keep their phones at their desks, and it was described to me like an episode of Arrested Development. He had the stylist coming out and matching his shirt to the lights. It’s totally wacky, but all the stories are real. This is how he ran the company — just right into the ground, by the way, I should add.

But it’s funny to reflect on because he’s so irrelevant now, it doesn’t even matter. So we just kind of all share stories about this wacky person who pretended to be a CEO for a while, just desperately wants to be famous. And he doesn’t have it, you know. “You just don’t have it, buddy.”

SHAWN RYAN: I just love watching people that treat people like that just get f*ing destroyed. Yeah, destroyed.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, because you need—

SHAWN RYAN: You need to never do anything big ever again.

CANDACE OWENS: No, and he knows it, which is why his new show On the Road is—

SHAWN RYAN: Oh, he has a new show called On the Road.

The Daily Wire Firing

CANDACE OWENS: No, but basically he just books media to talk about me. It’s bonkers. And how I’m the worst decision he ever made. And obviously the public sees that for what it is. It’s just pathetic.

But he reimagines me too. So he pretends— because why are they going to book him? Like, nobody wants to welcome him. And so he says, “Well, you know, Candace once told me a secret, Stuart, like a secret, that she would do anything for money.” That’s how he tried to launch his podcast, saying that I told him I would do anything for money.

And it’s the literal exact opposite of what happened at the Daily Wire. It’s like the exact opposite experience you had with me when Kanye tweeted DEFCON 3 or whatever. I had nothing to do with it. I wasn’t there when he tweeted it. I wasn’t with him. But because I was friends with him— this was like the cancellation of Kanye. They were putting pressure on me to make a statement about him, and I didn’t do it, and I didn’t want to do it.

And it led to a moment where I was brought into a conference room and my husband was there, and both of the co-CEOs— it was Jeremy and Caleb Robinson, who’s more serious of a person than Jeremy— were yelling in a conference room like, “Why won’t you just say this and make it easy? Don’t you understand the pressure that it puts on Ben? And his network of people who feel threatened by this or whatever.”

And I refused to do it. I said, “You know, I think you guys reflect on this— most people see me as like a formidable enemy, but I’m a more formidable friend. I’m not going to step on his head while he’s drowning.”

And so Jeremy basically said, “Okay, well, here’s what we’re going to do. We need to build trust with you.” So I had signed— I want to say it was a 7-year contract. I could go back and get the exact specs of it. And we were like 2 years into the contract or something like that. And they shaved off like 5 years of my contract. So I lost millions of guaranteed dollars. And they basically were like, “Or you could just say a statement about Kanye.”

Didn’t do it. Took the money back. And so it was the exact opposite experience he had with me— that I would not say things for money. And what’s so wacky is I have the whole email chain. This all happened with lawyers. They changed the contract, the negotiations, all of this stuff, and I was penalized for what Kanye said. What Kanye tweeted cost me millions of dollars. And zero regrets. It’s not the person I am. I won’t say things for money. I cannot be made to dance for money.

And I think that frustrated them. That deeply frustrated them. I have to believe what I’m saying. And so even if I get things wrong— and of course I get things wrong because I’m a human— I am never intentionally lying or telling people something because somebody is funding me to say it.

I genuinely was wrong about my prior positions on Israel, or I was genuinely just not educated and I was okay with it. I genuinely had no idea what was going on in Palestine. The moment I became educated about what was happening, when it became a hot-button issue and I was like, “Let me focus and see what this is actually about”— I picked the right side and I spoke out and I said something. And again, it ended up costing me my job.

So I was making good money at The Daily Wire, I had no job that I was jumping onto. So to go around and say that Candace will say anything for money— you literally fired me because I wouldn’t say anything for money. So it’s really weird to sort of see him try to rewrite who I am. But it’s also ineffectual. So he’s just a cartoon character.

SHAWN RYAN: Jeez. What was it that eventually did get you— did you get fired or did you quit?

CANDACE OWENS: I got fired. The stage was built, remember? And it was a production. They put together a video.

SHAWN RYAN: They put a f*ing video?

CANDACE OWENS: Do you have access to it? Well, eventually Jeremy posted it because I think he thought people were going to go, “Wow, you’re amazing.”

SHAWN RYAN: It’s out? It’s on the internet?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, you can watch how he presented it.

SHAWN RYAN: So all these f*ing stories that I’ve heard about the day he got fired and the presentation, I can actually go watch it.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I think Steven Crowder released it or something. I think it got released somehow.

SHAWN RYAN: And you know, we’re putting that in your preview.

The Firing: Reasons Listed

CANDACE OWENS: You have to. I mean, it was totally— they played— one of the reasons they listed for my firing, because it was basically a thousand different ways that “you’ve been antisemitic”— they, meaning the PR person at Daily Wire, told me to go on this show that had a DJ that just makes sound effects. And when me and the person were speaking about Ben Shapiro, a sound of a cash register went off, and they thought that that was like pre-planned antisemitism. The ka-ching sound effect. One of the reasons I got fired.

SHAWN RYAN: Are you serious?

CANDACE OWENS: Of a random show playing a cash register sound. I mean, the whole show— actually, I think I was told that it was money that came in, because they have a live—

SHAWN RYAN: It’s the Shopify sound.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, like it was a live thing where it’s a live show, so there’s so many sounds. They have a DJ. I couldn’t have told you that this happened, and the whole time there’s a cash register sound going— but also the sound went off when we were talking about Ben. And so that was listed as a reason for my firing.

SHAWN RYAN: How did they do it? Did they come— did they—

CANDACE OWENS: It was just an email. I was about to hit the stage at Turning Point USA because I was on tour, as I always am with them. And so I was juggling both, and I just got an email and they listed— I think it was like 30 pages, or it could have been 30 reasons.

And I actually laughed when I was reading it because it was so crazy. Like, it was so far beyond how they could interpret things. Only a person who was in a sitcom could have come up with this. I was shocked they put it in writing. That was my— like, because first I was like, “Whoa, what am I being fired for?” And then as they started listing the reasons— the first 3 pages were Nick Fuentes. It was just Nick Fuentes. I’ve never spoken to Nick Fuentes. I spoke to him literally one time prior to that.

But they had a whole conspiracy that I was secretly working with Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson to bring down The Daily Wire. And they brought me into the office and questioned me about that close to the end. And I was like, “I don’t know what you guys are talking about.” There was a mental unwellness that was happening at that company.

SHAWN RYAN: And was Tucker even independent at that time?

The Tucker Carlson Obsession

CANDACE OWENS: He had just gone independent. So I think this is what— they have a very severe obsession with Tucker. That was apparent to me when I was at the company. I mean, I don’t know what it is. There’s something about Tucker that Jeremy and Ben are very obsessed with. And I don’t know if it’s because he’s just cool, there’s an envy.

And they had convinced themselves that I was somehow working behind the scenes to bring down the Daily Wire to go work for Tucker. And that’s because that’s what they did to Breitbart. So they were accusing me of what they had done to a company prior, right? They had quietly been building Daily Wire. They then created a scandal, a fake scandal with Michelle Fields, and then they took all of Breitbart’s subscribers with them.

SHAWN RYAN: So what was the fake scandal?

CANDACE OWENS: The Michelle Fields— “Like, Corey Lewandowski hit me and I was bruised.” That whole scandal, as I was told, was thought up by Ben Shapiro and his best friend who was Michelle Fields’ husband, Jamie Weinstein, to help them launch Daily Wire. So this is the story of a f*ing turd. You go around killing people and then you’re paranoid that someone’s trying to kill you.

I was 8 months pregnant. I’m a very loyal person. Even if you don’t deserve my loyalty, if I’m working for your company I’m working for your company. I’m not trying to snipe you. I’m not doing anything. It’s just not my personality. I’ll just quit, you know what I mean?

And they brought me into an office and questioned me about this Tucker Carlson conspiracy. And they asked me— he told me explicitly that they thought that I was working with Nick Fuentes. And I just was so confused.

SHAWN RYAN: How much time did you have at The Daily Wire?

CANDACE OWENS: Left or how much?

SHAWN RYAN: No, just altogether.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, was I there for 3 years? I think.

SHAWN RYAN: How long did this happen after the Kanye incident where they wanted you to—

The Final Months at The Daily Wire

CANDACE OWENS: It was kind of exactly a year later. But it was right after October 7th is when they got super wacky. And I think they were wanting me to kind of pledge allegiance to Israel publicly. And I just wasn’t going to do that. And so it became an issue.

They had financial pressure because Jeremy was doing Pendragon, which cost them over $60 million. The reports on that have been completely inaccurate about how much that passion project of Jeremy’s harmed the company. And he was just— there’s only one way to describe him— maniacal. Anybody who works at Daily Wire will tell you that. He was just utterly maniacal, and he’s obsessive.

And so yeah, they built the stage. I mean, by the way, when I sat down with them like a week prior to them firing me, and we had hashed things out— when they had said to me, “Well, we thought you were secretly plotting”— and I was like, “This is mental unwellness.” And I said, “Look, if post-October 7th things have changed, I obviously understand this is Ben’s a partner of the company and you guys want to separate— let me and Ben talk to each other like human beings. I’m happy to do that. You don’t spend 3 years at a company and want things to end badly.”

So I presented Jeremy with that option of me just leaving peacefully. We could have figured out how to unwind, issue a nice statement. But Jeremy has a flair for drama. He has to build a stage. He has to do it. He has to make it over the top. And so they hatched this remarkable plan to— “Christ is King is antisemitic.”

SHAWN RYAN: Did they really say that?

CANDACE OWENS: Yes.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, don’t get offended, but I always thought you kind of manufactured that.

The Daily Wire Lawsuits and Brett Cooper

CANDACE OWENS: Oh no, Andrew Klavan did a full episode entitled like “Christ is King” after we announced that I was separated, and he just completely disparaged me for an hour. Andrew Klavan. And I was so shocked because we had signed a non-disparagement, and their lawyers came back and were essentially like, “jokes on you, tricky contract clause.” We said that none of the talent or none of the employees would disparage you, but Andrew Klavan isn’t actually an employee, he’s a contractor.

So they had plotted to sign this agreement, we go our separate ways, but then they were going to allow Andrew Klavan to publicly say something and then said I couldn’t say anything back. But it backfired because they did this during Lent and people watched the episode and went, “What?”

So then, this gets even better, it backfires. My hands are tied behind my back. I can’t say anything. But they still— because they lost tens of thousands of subscribers to Andrew Klavan doing an episode calling me antisemitic over “Christ is King”— they then sued me for them attacking me.

So Jeremy, which is really funny because a couple days ago he went on to Patrick Bet-David and said, “We had the most subscribers ever after Candace left.” You literally sued me, and I have the documents of your sworn affidavit saying the opposite. It’s like, it’s the way he lies. He’s just maniacal. You can’t even make it up.

So he sued me and said that they lost tens of thousands of subscribers over the “Christ is King” thing, which caused their company financial harm. They sued me for their attack on me backfiring. Try to work that out.

SHAWN RYAN: Wow.

CANDACE OWENS: And their evidence of why it was actually my fault was because I couldn’t say anything about Andrew Klavan, but Jeremy then stalked my likes on Twitter and people that were defending me. I was liking the tweets. He brought that into court and said the likes are disparaging.

SHAWN RYAN: Does this shit hold up?

CANDACE OWENS: They ended up eventually— let me tell you the blessing of the way God works. So we were being sued. They wanted millions of dollars for my likes, literally my likes on Twitter. And so basically they were going to get every bit that they— we agreed to walk away and I wanted them to pay me out what was due. And they figured they’d just claw it in court because Jeremy’s a homosexual psychopath and he will focus on that.

They were trying to tell the judge that likes amount to disparagement. And a blessing occurs. You cannot make this up because they are like cartoon characters.

My lawyer gets a call, and I want to say it was Labor Day weekend. It might have been before Labor Day. I feel like it was sometime in August, but I feel like it was Labor Day weekend. And my lawyer on the case was in a bar. He had a couple of beers, and he said he comes out and Daily Wire’s lawyer calls him and he’s freaking out on the phone and he’s like, “She pulled her contract, she pulled her contract and you knew, blah blah.”

And my lawyer’s like, “Dude, what are you talking about? You mean she pulled her contract? You guys fired her.” And he’s like, “You’re going to pretend you don’t know?” And my lawyer Rob was like, “What happened? What did Candace do? What happened?” And he’s like, “We’re talking about Brett.”

So these geniuses thought that I had something to do with Brett pulling her contract, and they were the ones who told me Brett pulled her contract. It was brilliant. The whole thing was just amazing. So I had no idea that Brett had done this, obviously, because I had nothing to do with it. And she pulled her contract, and then they, because they were so in their conspiracy mind, thought I had something to do with it. Their lawyer then informed me that Brett pulled her contract. And so that’s how I found out that Brett was leaving The Daily Wire— from their own lawyer.

SHAWN RYAN: Shit. How long after you left did Brett leave?

Brett Cooper, Reagan, and Jeremy Boreing’s Retaliation

CANDACE OWENS: Brett— she ended up— it ended up saving me in this court thing the first time. They ended up suing me again and then Brett again. It was nonstop lawsuits all the time. But because Brett— it was such a shock to everyone, myself included— they then suddenly had like a two-front war. Like they’re fighting me in court and then suddenly Jeremy was going to put Brett in a torture chamber. And they, I guess, decided to just— for the first lawsuit, we decided to agree and walk away.

But then they found another reason to sue me again, and that was because I saw red when I saw them doing what they did to me, to Brett. They were going to— they tried the same thing. They were going to go with antisemitism. Brett Cooper, I mean, this girl does like pop culture videos— but it’s tried and true. So they started stalking her likes and exact same thing. Getting their friends to write articles like, “What’s happening to Brett Cooper? She likes this tweet.”

And I defended her. And when he did the thing with her best friend as a way to torture her— because that’s what that was. That’s how he is. He’s unwell. It’s like, you don’t leave my cult and you’re a piece of property to me, I’m going to make you suffer.

And he went to Brett’s wedding. Knew Reagan was her best friend, knew that Reagan was her maid of honor. And here’s what the most effed up part— and I apologize in advance for me having absolutely zero permission from Brett, but we’re already on the show, so I can’t go backward. Sometimes I feel like I’m not on air and I kind of forget that all this is going— you know, that’s kind of the problem with podcasts, sometimes I’m just talking to you.

SHAWN RYAN: Sometimes you get a little—

CANDACE OWENS: I’m just talking to you in your living room now.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: And this will be obviously very viral, but the most effed up part of it— and I actually think both of the girls were victimized by it, I want to be clear. I don’t like what Reagan did, but these were two young girls, and they were best friends, and there was just a maniacal homosexual man doing this because he wanted Brett to suffer for just leaving a job. Like, hey, I’m 22, no matter what my reason is, I should be able to leave a job.

He offered Reagan more money than he ever paid Brett.

SHAWN RYAN: Great business decision, worked out really well.

CANDACE OWENS: An offer you can’t refuse sort of a thing, which would have been life-changing. So who knows what her life pressures were— and this is me being gracious, because I’m not a fan of that. I don’t like when girls— I wouldn’t have done it, I’ll tell you that for free. I’m built a little different. But you can see how that kind of money in front of someone who’s just like an associate producer and suddenly someone’s like, “Finally, I’ll make you a star, I’ll do this.”

And he did that for sport because he wanted her to. And it hurt her, by the way. He was successful. That was a relationship that meant a lot to her. And that’s not something— this is something you hear like a deranged husband doing to a wife after a divorce. Like, “How will I make her suffer?” and using the kids as a chip in the middle of the divorce. This isn’t something you hear about a CEO and a 22-year-old girl who wants to leave because she wants to have kids and he doesn’t think it’s a good idea for you to have kids.

And so I stood up for her, and then I got sued for standing up for her publicly. Zero regrets. As we were approaching the court date, I told my lawyers, “I’m not going to lie to the judge.” If they want to know, did I do an episode defending Brett Cooper? Every time they had dinged me, they wanted $300K for every offense. And I think for that episode, they wanted $1 million for me defending Brett, or $300K for that episode.

I said I was just going to pay it, and I said I would have hung it up on a wall and showed my kids. Stand up for something. Money’s just money. And I would have said to the judge, “Yep, I consciously made— that was the one time where they were coming after me for something that could have violated disparagement because I was sickened by what he did to her.”

SHAWN RYAN: Good for you. Yeah, that’s a real friend.

CANDACE OWENS: Money’s not everything in life, you know what I mean?

SHAWN RYAN: Yep.

CANDACE OWENS: She’s so young, it’s just like— I felt so— and I wasn’t actually close to Brett at The Daily Wire. We got close after because of dealing with lawsuits, and he sued her over wearing a blue shirt. Someone said it so perfectly online.

SHAWN RYAN: Why would The Daily Wire sue somebody for wearing a blue shirt?

The Blue Shirt Incident and Legal Stalking

CANDACE OWENS: It’s all about the suffering of a lawsuit, right? It’s not about whether or not they can win. It’s about knowing that she doesn’t have this money. You’re going to sue her. $100K, $300K for wearing a blue shirt.

So what happens— this really gets you into the mind of how Jeremy Boreing works. On her last day, they did a joint announcement that was really weird, and everyone could tell that something more was happening. They had agreed whatever the language is, and so Jeremy did a like, “Brett’s been great,” and then it kind of cuts to Brett. I remember watching and being like, “This is weird.” And obviously your audience can sniff it out in 4 seconds. They are growing with you. They know you. They’re here. It’s called the Brett Cooper Show, right? And they could sense that something was coming or whatever it was.

But on that day, she wore a blue shirt during that announcement. And it turned out that previously someone in the comments— because I told you he stalks comments, that’s his thing, he’s a true stalker in the comments— had said, “Brett, if you’re under an NDA, wear a blue shirt.” So he extrapolated from that that she must have intentionally worn a blue shirt, which is completely wacky. And you’re wearing a blue shirt— if you’re not wearing a blue shirt three times a week— we’re not talking about a maroon shirt. White, black, blue, I feel like everyone wears three times a week.

So then he found a reason to— because he never wants you to leave, right? So he sues, and then you’re behind the scenes and you’re fighting them because it’s a way to hold on to a relationship. And so it’s a legal form of stalking.

And so I’m actually quite passionate about it. I hope that one day with my platform I can get laws changed, because it allows psychopathic men to stalk women legally because they go, “I have a contract and I can interpret anything as disparagement, even a shirt, a like on Twitter. So I can now keep you in court and keep you tied to me for years.” And that’s what he did to me. It never stopped. He’s now doing tours, still talking. So it’s been a non-stop stalk from him. And he did the same thing to Brett. So it’s like, you can never leave, sort of a thing.

SHAWN RYAN: Holy shit.

CANDACE OWENS: But there are laws that need to be changed about arbitration court, because that’s what arbitration gives them the comfort of doing. He would have never brought that lawsuit in a public court because that would have humiliated him, and people would have read and realized that something’s deranged about him. They realize that now, just on the basis of the amount of interviews he’s given about me, that people are now going, “This is starting to feel obsessive with Jeremy.” Give him a stage and he’ll reveal himself. So I don’t mind him doing all those interviews, but to have to suffer that in arbitration court and to not be able to speak— laws have to change.

SHAWN RYAN: Who’s interviewing him? I mean, what’s the interest? You’re interviewing a failed businessman. The Daily Wire— yeah, and it’s because they’re buying views. They’re buying f*ing views.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, and it’s because of him, you know, that investment in his childhood dream, Pendragon. He’s not right in the head. So with someone like that, he just thinks he’s going to build something.

The Pressure Campaign Against Megyn Kelly

SHAWN RYAN: And I mean, it doesn’t sound like any of them are right in the head, and they sure as f* don’t learn any lessons. I mean, no, they’re trying to get you to speak out against Kanye. And then fast forward, what, a couple years, and now they’re trying to get Megyn Kelly to speak out against you and I think Tucker, right?

CANDACE OWENS: Like she’s the internet mom or something. And it’s so crazy because it wasn’t like Megyn was platforming me. That’s what was so strange. Like their attacks against her was especially psychotic because they were just going, “Hey, it’s Tuesday, we’re going to need you to make a statement about Candace Owens.” She’s like, “Wait, why do I have to make a statement about Candace Owens? I don’t know Candace Owens. I haven’t had her on.” I think she literally had me on her radio show one time years ago when I was at The Daily Wire promoting The Greatest Lie Ever Told. I’ve never done the Megyn Kelly Show.

And they’re just tribal. So it’s like, “Well, because we said so, you need to say something about Candace Owens.” And she’s like, “I’m not going to do that.” Yeah, because that diminishes me as a person. That makes Megyn look weak. That means she’s not in the driver’s seat of her own life.

And then they start applying the pressure. The mafia starts to come in and they’ll start putting bots in your comments, having people stalk you, talking about you every single day, trying to ruin your reputation, having people email. They even have email bots where they can have 3,000 fake emails go out and try to stop wherever you’re speaking, like, “Don’t host this person, she’s Adolf Hitler,” and just creating trouble in your life. And you can see their new fixation is Megyn.

At events that I speak at, I have to pre-tell people that if you announce me as a speaker, you’re going to start getting a bunch of emails and you’re going to think they’re from real people and they’re not. They’re just bots. And now that we can read the Farhad docs, they’re honest about the fact that they control these Israeli bots in the comment sections on Instagram and on Facebook to make people—

SHAWN RYAN: So the Israeli Wire also has an Israeli bot farm?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, I don’t know if they are orchestrating it, but I know that they have their accounts that they pay, and Seth Dillon helps out with that, with people that they pay to just stalk all day online. And it’s all about creating an illusion of pressure. It’s not real. Obviously, the majority of Americans don’t support what Israel is doing and don’t support Israel. So they have to create fake people. And you can read the Faradox of Clockwork LLC, and it’s totally insane. They’re just admitting what they’re doing.

Yeah, it really is something to behold, but that’s what they’re putting Megyn Kelly through. And she’s proven to be very tough. And they’re also angry at her because she told the truth, which surprised me, by the way, and I have such deep respect for her over it. She was one of the few people who stood up and told the truth about what Charlie was going through in the end, as all of his friends lied about the pressure — including his wife — about the pressure he was under by Israel. They lied. And Megyn had been one of the last people to speak with him on her show and he opened up to her and told her everything he was going through, and she just told the truth. That’s it. That was her crime, man.

SHAWN RYAN: What a major miscalculation of your own strength.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. Wow.

The Genocide Tweet and Its Fallout

SHAWN RYAN: Wow. They just never fing learn over there. I mean, they’re going to tank that entire— I mean, I don’t think there’s any coming back from this. I mean, are they getting like 1,200 views on video? That’s fing crazy. I think it’s— I mean, are you allowed to have any criticism of Israel over there?

CANDACE OWENS: No, clearly not. I said “genocide is always wrong” and I was getting text messages of people trying to convince me that I had done something truly crazy. And I wasn’t even talking about Israel. I was talking about Brian Mast. He wore an IDF uniform into Congress and said— I’m trying to remember, but he basically said there’s no such thing as an innocent Palestinian, and it was completely genocidal.

And I saw a tweet from Yashar Ali about it, and I was in Madrid at the time at a wedding, and I tweeted, “Genocide, no matter who it comes from, is always wrong.” And they wanted me to apologize.

SHAWN RYAN: Just like, apologize? Apologize to who?

CANDACE OWENS: To understand how that hurt Israel, because people assumed that I was referring to Israel. And I was like, okay, let’s say I wasn’t referring to Israel — genocide’s always wrong, it actually applies all the time. But I was referring specifically to Brian Mast. And they tried to tell me that it didn’t matter, that Ben’s friends thought I was talking about Israel. So basically, if somebody else has an idea, I’m responsible for it, even when I believe exactly what I tweeted. Genocide is always wrong. I said what I meant. I didn’t know I had to say in small print, “This tweet is obviously referencing Brian Mast, who is trending right now for wearing an IDF uniform.” The tweet is a standalone tweet. Genocide is always wrong.

SHAWN RYAN: Jeez.

CANDACE OWENS: I think it’s just they were a little insecure because they were planning a genocide. Now we can see why that tweet really got under their skin.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, it looks like they’re planning another one.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

The Israeli Minister’s Tweet

SHAWN RYAN: You seen this tweet that came out— I texted it to you on the way here from breakfast. This is the Israeli Minister of National Security. Have you read this? Let me read it to you.

“For every tear of an Israeli mother, 1,000 Lebanese mothers must weep. All of Lebanon must burn. With all due respect to the Americans, Israel must make it clear to the entire world that the blood of our sons and the security of our citizens are not forfeit. All of Lebanon must burn. Our supreme duty is to protect the citizens of Israel and the soldiers of the IDF, and this commitment takes precedence over every other consideration. I told the Prime Minister, even in our private meetings, for every tear of an Israeli mother, a thousand Lebanese must weep. Enough with the ping pong. In the Middle East, you don’t win with measured responses and restraint. You need to go berserk, to obliterate, to crush the terror.”

Yeah, sounds like another genocide’s on the way.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, he’s a total psychopath, but they all are. That’s the point. The government is being run by psychopaths, and I think people need to realize that what they are doing to the Palestinians, to the Lebanese people, they will do to us. They will do to us. They will torture your kids. They don’t care. I mean, this is in the pocket of the goyim. All of that was a conspiracy until we suddenly had access to Jeffrey Epstein’s emails.

SHAWN RYAN: What does goy mean?

CANDACE OWENS: Cattle.

SHAWN RYAN: Cattle. Nation. Cattle.

CANDACE OWENS: Just cattle, slaves. Yeah. So they are okay with you so long as you’re—

SHAWN RYAN: ‘Cause they say it means nation.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. It does not mean nation.

SHAWN RYAN: Alaska Rock. It means nation.

CANDACE OWENS: No, it means cattle. It means cattle. And so they are—

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, I’ve never heard anybody call a f*ing nation a goy. Have you?

CANDACE OWENS: No, no, it’s completely made up, and that is not even something— I’m surprised that’s a new updated thing they’re trying to lie about, but they try to constantly bury history even from 5 weeks ago.

SHAWN RYAN: I saw somebody— they tried to correct— I think I tweeted something about it. And I asked Ro Khanna when he was here, I said, “What’s a goy, Ro?” And he didn’t know.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, it’s cattle.

SHAWN RYAN: So we told him. And then that clip went crazy.

CANDACE OWENS: This is—

SHAWN RYAN: And everybody’s telling me that it means nation.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh yeah, nation. “He’s a good goy.” “Yeah, there’ll be a lot of goy there.” “There’ll be a lot of nation there.” I mean, read the context of his emails. But also, that’s kind of weird. All of their literature — it’s not difficult to find out what goy means. It’s cattle. And their perspective is like, to the extent that they can get us to work for them, we’re fine. And if we won’t work for them, then we have to be obliterated.

SHAWN RYAN: They do the Grok thing where they’re like, “Grok, what does goy mean?” And it’ll say— I don’t know what it says, but then I’ll just go over to Claude and I’ll ask Claude, “What does goy mean?” And it— yeah, it’s a derogatory comment towards anybody that’s not Jewish.

CANDACE OWENS: And it’s racist. It’s a fundamentally racist—

SHAWN RYAN: Racist against Christians.

CANDACE OWENS: It is. And there’s a real— I mean, they’re raised to believe that their life matters more. So Ben Gavir, you have to appreciate that he’s being honest.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, I mean, you can see it all over his f*ing face. He thinks he’s more important than everybody.

False Flags, the Bolshevik Revolution, and the Gulag System

CANDACE OWENS: That’s their prerogative. Like, that’s what October 7th proved. They have a right to commit a genocide now, even though they plotted October 7th and Bibi Netanyahu allowed it to happen. And all the evidence shows that the whole point is that they— and they’ve been doing this forever, these false flag attacks. This is the whole history of Israel, is false flag attacks. I mean, look at the USS Liberty, and they still deny what they did — deny in the face of overwhelming evidence. They believe it is their birthright to mass murder, steal, kill, and rape, take from people, destroy heritage, and then reintroduce themselves in other societies with all this wealth that they stole, and say that it’s because they worked hard. Yeah, they worked hard murdering people and stealing and running the gulag system.

SHAWN RYAN: And what’s the gulag system?

CANDACE OWENS: Russia, the Bolshevik Revolution, the Romanovs — the diamonds that they stole from the Romanov family after they murdered them in a satanic ritual. Those diamonds ended up in New York, by the way. You know what you should do in your spare time? Look into Armand Hammer. You know Armie Hammer, the actor? Look into his family’s history. Look into Julius Hammer. Look into Armand Hammer — Arm and Hammer. What their family did when they came over from the Pale of Settlement in Russia. Lenin’s favorite Jew, even though Lenin himself was Jewish. He took diamonds, established the Diamond District. Well, who were they getting the diamonds from in Russia? I mean, they were mass murdering Christians.

So where do you think this is going to happen? They just destroyed all of Palestine. Do you think there was no wealth there? No jewelry, no diamonds. And you see, when you see the Israeli settlers go in and pillage— I mean, if you’ve seen these videos, they just take their land. That’s how it’s always been. They just run in and they take your land. It’s theirs now. Thugs. They’re being trained to do that like cockroaches. Like watching cockroaches descend, truly. And that’s the only way you can describe it when you see the videos. It’s disgusting. It’s the most— and they beat these people. And they take their land and that’s it. It’s all theirs now.

Trump’s Gaza Resort Tweet and the Jesus Post

SHAWN RYAN: Well, there’s going to be a big— is there going to be a big Trump hotel there now?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, that was— Trump himself tweeted the Trump resort, whatever it was, of like, “This is what Gaza could be.” It was the most despicable thing I’ve ever seen. You wonder who tweeted it because Trump doesn’t know how to use AI. He’s not authoring his own tweets. It was absolutely tasteless.

SHAWN RYAN: But did you see that thing that he posted about him being Jesus? What was that?

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, he didn’t know that.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh yeah, he didn’t fing know. He didn’t know there was fing demons in the sky either, right? Mm-hmm. What was that? Just more of the really gross stuff — are they just mocking Christians or what? Like, what is this?

CANDACE OWENS: Well, they hate Christians. They’re taught to hate Christians. They spit on our children.

SHAWN RYAN: You think Trump hates Christians?

CANDACE OWENS: They train their children to spit. I don’t think he loves us.

SHAWN RYAN: ‘Cause it’s— that’s— he’s the one that posted it.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. I mean, Trump’s never pretended to be a Christian. I think he’s been pretty open about the fact that he certainly favors Israel.

SHAWN RYAN: Like, he’s got a 99% approval rating over there.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: He, well, I think he’s also said several times he doesn’t think he’s going to heaven.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I think he’s kind of made his bed. I don’t think he’s going to heaven either. If it means anything, I don’t get to decide, but I don’t— just objectively looking at everything, I just wouldn’t. I wouldn’t bet on him in heaven either. You want people to change, you hope they change, but it’s kind of hard when you just see what’s going on there to imagine that that’s a ticket to heaven, you know?

What he’s allowing to happen. It’s like he’s obsessed with earthly riches and he’s got such short time to live. You’d think that toward the— you’d hope that toward the end of your life you would want to right wrongs and be a good person, because you know you’re going to meet your maker soon.

So that’s one of the more stunning things is like Trump’s going to die soon just because he’s going to die soon. He’s in his 80s, that’s how it works. Joe Biden’s going to die soon. They’re all going to die soon. So it’s usually a good time to not beget evil. Yeah. Try to get right with God. I don’t know. Final stretch. Try to sprint. You try to sprint. Last stretch. And it’s interesting to see Trump sort of do the opposite. And I just go, okay, that’s interesting, man. I don’t even wish any ill toward Trump. I don’t have any anger. I just, it’s worse. It’s pity.

SHAWN RYAN: You don’t have any anger?

CANDACE OWENS: I pity him. I pity a man who has relinquished what was a real power. People loved him, believed in him, you know, thought that he could change things. I pity for earthly riches. Yeah, to give that up. I don’t know. And that, that will be his legacy.

I always pity weak men. I always pity weak men because I just think there is something so natural in the way that God designed it for men to lead, for men to be strong. For men to be forthright. And so when you see men that are weak, it does draw from me frustration, but also pity. That’s not, that’s not what God designed you to be.

SHAWN RYAN: You know, I almost wish I had pity for him, but I just don’t.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. He’s in, how do you not? He’s a slave. He’s got all this stuff and he’s a slave because he’s a voluntary slave.

SHAWN RYAN: He made the f*ing decision.

CANDACE OWENS: He made the decision.

SHAWN RYAN: Forced into it. He’s a greedy piece of shit.

CANDACE OWENS: He just wanted to be president and he, he was shortsighted. I think he’s living in a prison every day.

SHAWN RYAN: I f*ing hope he is.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. He’s not loved and that matters to him. And I don’t know, I just, I don’t think I’m angry with him. No, I think I’m just equal parts disgusted. I think it’s pitiful. That’s what I mean when you going back to the question you first asked me, what’s it like having the part? And I’m like, I even forgot it. That’s how powerless he’s become. Like it was, it’s not even something I hold onto a couple of weeks later. Just poor Trump, you know, poor Trump. Poor Trump.

Peter Thiel and the Secret Society

SHAWN RYAN: Oh man, have you heard about this Peter Thiel shit? What, the secret society? I got a hot question for you. So we had Claude scrape the internet for the most viral question, and here it is. This week, a hacktivist leaked the membership of Dialogue, a secret invitation-only society Peter Thiel founded in 2006, with a roster that reportedly includes a sitting Treasury Secretary, senators, and military and intelligence officials. So here’s the question. Have you looked into this at all? And what’s your take?

CANDACE OWENS: What’s the group called? Did they find out the name?

SHAWN RYAN: Dialogue.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh, it’s called Dialogue. I mean, my general instinct on Peter Thiel is no. His name is an anagram for the reptile. I just— it’s a no. He appears in the Epstein files so much after lying to Joe Rogan and saying like, oh, I just— he’s helped me with some math stuff, it was weird, the emails were weird, it seems like they’re like meeting up for dalliances and all across New York City. It’s just weird, it’s very strange, the emails. And it just— it’s a hard no.

But also I think I had my opinion colored because Dave Rubin told me about how he partied with him on his island. He also has an island, by the way.

SHAWN RYAN: Who does?

CANDACE OWENS: Peter Thiel.

SHAWN RYAN: Mm-hmm.

CANDACE OWENS: And Dave Rubin told me the story that still lives inside of me. And he’ll deny it, but Peter Thiel will hear this and know I’m telling the truth because I couldn’t have known it otherwise. But him and his husband went to Peter Thiel’s island, which is like off the coast of Hawaii. He just kind of bought an island. This is what you do at a certain level. And he has his house on it. And he, I guess, got to an age where he realized that like he needed somewhere to dump his wealth. So he decided to have a kid, you know, got a surrogate, whatever.

And he said it was the weirdest thing because once his son was born, they all were there on the island, and Peter Thiel is building a house next door. For the nannies to raise the child. And he said when they brought the child around the table at his house, they were basically like— this is— the servants were like presenting the child, and Peter was just sort of like looking at the child like, “mm, yes, yeah, there he is,” or whatever. And it was like very strange and detached.

And they partied with Peter Thiel and I’ll leave it at that. But I had my opinions about who Peter Thiel is, where it was shaped about by Dave Rubin. It’s not a guy that I want in authority to make any decisions whatsoever. That’s a, that’s a dark, dark, dark future.

SHAWN RYAN: They just released a shit ton of names that are in this thing. Have you seen this yet?

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: I think they did it while we were sitting in here. I just saw it on the last break. We’ll put up, we’ll put the names up on screen right now. So everybody can read them.

Here’s a follow-up question. Across everything you’ve dug into— true crime, cults, criminal networks— what’s the single most disturbing thing you’ve found that you actually believe is real? You come around across some dark shit.

The Occult, Pedophilia, and the Epstein Network

CANDACE OWENS: So yeah, I mean, the understanding of the pedophilia, that’s all real. It’s all real. It’s occult worship, and it goes back to like— they believe in sex magic. And sex magic, you could get into like Aleister Crowley. All that’s real. I mean, he wrote books about it. It’s not like they were trying to hide it. But these are the elites. Like, these were not— these aren’t people that are at the bottom.

It’s why I find it hilarious when people believe in the moon landings. I’m like, do you know the history of the jet propulsion labs and that it was created by Aleister Crowley’s acolyte, a protégé, so to speak.

SHAWN RYAN: The—

CANDACE OWENS: They— these people wrote extensively about the sex parties they were having, that they thought they could— they were summoning demons. They were summoning demons. And they harm children. That is— that is the world we live in, and I think that is very disturbing. To have to contend with that.

And the craziest part is the people that protect them, oh, for money. That’s, that’s hard to know that people I come up with in politics will look the other way for the right price. Think about that. Everyone knew what Epstein was doing, and then he was protected, and they knew that he went to prison.

SHAWN RYAN: Think about this shit all the time. It’s so fascinating— wouldn’t be the right word, but it’s, it’s, it’s interesting to see how these people think that they have amassed so much power, but they really have zero power. The only f*ing thing that they can really do is introduce a bill.

CANDACE OWENS: Mhm. Yeah. I mean, when you—

SHAWN RYAN: When they can’t even fing say what’s on their mind. Yeah, they’re powerless. They’re fing— they are. They’re controlled. I think that— I mean, I think that’s a way to— a means to control people is to get them into politics.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. They control Congress. There’s no question about it.

SHAWN RYAN: They really think that they have f*ing power.

CANDACE OWENS: Well, in many ways, they find people who are pedophiles already and then they empower them. Give them churches, give them— you know, I was like shocked looking at the history of the Calvary Chapel Church when I was looking into like Rob McCoy. It’s unbelievable how many people like are reformed, whatever, and then are not— end up being reformed at all. It’s a system. It’s for sure a system, and that’s not imagined.

And you need to wake up and realize our world is in fact being run by pedophiles. That’s a fact. And if the Epstein thing didn’t wake you up to the fact that it’s left and right, you’re still asleep. If you think that our troubles in this country are white versus black, you’re still asleep. If you think it’s gay versus straight, you’re still asleep. If you think it’s like, you know, feminism versus chauvinism, you’re still asleep.

We’ve got way bigger problems, and these are ancient problems that we have. People that worship and summon demons and believe in the occult and do it in your face. I believe Charlie’s assassination was an occult ritual. Everything about it. Yeah, everything about it. And I believe the people around him are into dark demonic stuff.

The Pentagram and Freemasonry

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, when you told me at dinner that he was assassinated in the middle of a pentagram, I was like, holy shit.

CANDACE OWENS: When someone sent me an old Freemason Bible and it showed how they believe that you have to be in a pentagram to sacrifice someone, literally shows you like there’s a map inside of the Freemason Bible. And I looked at it and I said, Charlie was sitting in a pentagram.

SHAWN RYAN: Sorry, where did the Freemasons come from? Well, you know the history of that.

Freemasonry, Secret Societies, and the Occult

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, I actually just read a book for our book club called The Secret History of America by Nicholas Hagger. Really, really important read, an academic read, but a very challenging one, an important one to get into the history of Freemasonry.

I guess Freemasonry in many ways, obviously it traces back, it’s biblical. So you have to think about different iterations. So it’s like Solomon’s Temple, the Masons of the temple is kind of what they’re hinting at. But in terms of the modern introduction to Western society, it begins with Francis Bacon and Paris, where Paris seems to be the home of a lot of the things that have happened in these secret societies. It’s like they go to Paris to be initiated. The same thing for Sigmund Freud. He studied under Charcot, and he was similarly initiated.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Paris’s code is 33. You know, if you want to dial out to Paris, it’s 33. It’s home of the French Revolution. There’s a lot that has happened in Paris. There’s a lot of evil that has taken place.

The Freemason Society— I mean, this gets into the infiltration of the Knights Templar, intentional infiltration by Adam Weishaupt, who was funding the infiltration of various Freemason groups and bringing them all together under the Illuminati. Our founding fathers were Freemasons, and the Nicholas Hager book carefully walks you through even the symbolism on the back of a $1 bill.

And to be clear, when they joined the Illuminati, it was after the Revolutionary War, but they were always— it was always done in mind, and Adam Weishaupt was an open Satanist. Using Christianity as a shell to further their satanic causes. So you have to really go backward to understand the theology, the infiltration, how the Scottish Rite Freemasons, which had everything to do with establishing America, was really dating back from France, and the Catholic Church having Jacques de Molay hung. I think he was hung, he was killed. And these groups then went into Scotland, and you can just— that book just helps you trace how these Freemason groups arrived into America.

And for them, it was seen as a new Atlantis. Okay, we keep getting caught doing all this crazy stuff across the European continent. It’s always been a war against the Catholic Church. They’re all explicit in their hatred of the Catholic Church, which is very compelling to me. Why do you think they’re against the Catholics so much? Because the Catholics were calling them what they were— Satanists.

The rewrite of history— Isabella of Spain, she should be sainted. They’re constantly— everything you’ve learned about Catholicism and the history of Catholicism is just crap in school, and there’s a reason for that, because America was designed to be anti-Catholic, Catholic to be anti-Orthodox. And the reason is because Catholics hold the history. They know what they were doing on that continent.

America was supposed to be kept fat, happy, and young. I truly believe that. And now America— well, we were fat, happy, and young for 250 years, and now we’re arriving into our adolescent phase, and people are starting to look in the right places. It’s why I encourage people to go to Russia. Russia holds the key to a lot of secrets of these maniacal psychopaths who have arrived in America who say, “Well, my great so-and-so went to Russia.” Got you. Clocks. Know exactly who your great-grandfather must have been and your bloodthirst.

The Bible says you will know them by their fruits. You do. Do you have to imagine who Mark Levin’s ancestors were who were in Russia? No, I have to guess. I’m going to guess they were killing the s out of Bolsheviks if I just had to guess. I mean, they were killing the s out of Christians, if I had to guess. They must have been— they must have built the gulag system.

There’s a bloodlust that exists and an anger that is just so perceptible. That’s why you say you will know them by their fruits. It’s the way they speak about people. There’s a happiness in their eyes when they’re talking about murder. It’s weird. Sometimes when I watch clips that will go viral of Ben Shapiro or Mark Levin, there’s something in their demeanor and their eyes that is so dark. I mean, it’s so dark where you really go, I think you are happy. It makes you happy when kids are being killed in Gaza. There’s something very disturbing. They’re not having the same reaction as we are having. And you see it in their tweets. They’re hungry for more death and destruction.

SHAWN RYAN: Oh no, I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it in person.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s dark.

SHAWN RYAN: I’ve seen it here in this room.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s dark. That can only come from worshiping the f*ing—

SHAWN RYAN: Foaming at the mouth.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. That can only come from the Prince of Darkness. Because when spirits are light and happy and you have a reaction to seeing a dead kid, doesn’t matter what the race of the kid is. You don’t get up on the airways and go, “Oh well, that’s what happens. You’re going to get some more of that.” Like what Ben Gvir is saying, there’s something very wrong with these people.

And so you don’t have to imagine who they are the children of. And that’s why you don’t have to get into the weeds on it either. God gave you intuition, he gave you intuition to know when somebody is spiritually disturbed, and that’s putting it mildly. Something about post-October 7th, you can see the flicker of demonology in their eyes now and the satisfaction they get from knowing that they’re hurting other people.

SHAWN RYAN: I mean, we just read that tweet. Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, honest.

SHAWN RYAN: There’s a thousand more just like it, honest, from other people in powerful positions over there. There’s just been so many things that just— I mean, to me, that prove how bad the influence is. Like sending that f*ing pedophile back to Israel. You know about— you saw that, right? Well, he was on the cyber team, one of the top guys in their cybersecurity wing. Came here luring what, 12-year-olds or something in on the internet. We didn’t do anything to them. We just packaged them up and sent them back to Israel.

CANDACE OWENS: Where he can do that freely, by the way, because they’ve been harboring and protecting pedophiles for a while.

SHAWN RYAN: We’re just cattle to them, right?

Frankism, the Star of David, and the Origins of Israel

CANDACE OWENS: Because it gets into that Frankist faith that actually dominates the Frankist beginnings, the Frankist origins of Israel. That’s not Judaism. The Star of David is not the Star of David. It’s Solomon’s Keys. Look up Aleister Crowley’s book. He’s got the Star of David all over it. It’s about summoning demons. It’s Baal worship. And they don’t want you to know the history of that, but that’s the reality.

People are waking up to that, and I think that’s why they have a certain— it’s almost like they’re under pressure right now. Their lust for destruction has never been louder. They’re not even— they’re like shape-shifting, I think is the best way to put it. I feel like we’re watching people who used to play human shape-shift into demons in real life.

UFOs, UAPs, and Demonic Entities

SHAWN RYAN: What do you think about all this UFO, UAP, alien stuff that’s coming out all of a sudden?

CANDACE OWENS: Distraction.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you think it’s a distraction?

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: Or do you think it’s a narrative and they’re going to try to pull a false flag alien invasion?

CANDACE OWENS: I think the government has had technology and has hidden technology for a long time. And I think whenever they start threatening to do disclosures in a time where people are waking up about the ultimate disclosure, which is who rules over us, it’s a distraction. Yeah, you’ve had a lot of time to give us this, and now there seems to be a real awakening happening. People talking about demons, people talking about the occult, people talking about Baal worshipers and child sacrifice, and that’s a real threat.

SHAWN RYAN: That’s personally what I think all this UAP stuff is. I think it’s all demonic entities.

CANDACE OWENS: There are demonic entities around us.

SHAWN RYAN: I also think it’s interesting how it has resurfaced right in the midst of the Epstein stuff, right in the midst of Pam Bondi saying the Dow’s at 50,000.

Death Threats and Personal Security

How many people do you have coming after you? How many death threats do you get?

CANDACE OWENS: All day, every day.

SHAWN RYAN: Do you take them seriously?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah. Yeah. We have a person in jail for trying to kill me. Yeah, I take them seriously because I said— tried to kill you for talking about Jewish history, talking about that Rabbi Schneerson tomb that Trump prayed over, and they all go into Brooklyn and pray over that guy. You should look into that guy.

SHAWN RYAN: What?

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm.

SHAWN RYAN: What tomb?

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, you start talking about the Chabad Lubavitch and they lose their minds. The history of the Chabad Lubavitch. But if everyone listening could just read The Assault on Truth, and the second book after you read that is Sigmund Freud and the Jewish Mystical Tradition— you’ll figure it out. All right, you’ll figure it out.

A Gift from Sig Sauer

SHAWN RYAN: I got you another present. I got you another present.

CANDACE OWENS: What is it?

SHAWN RYAN: Here, let me grab it.

CANDACE OWENS: I actually love presents.

SHAWN RYAN: Me too.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, honestly, the gummies were really good.

SHAWN RYAN: Since you have so many people coming after you, you know. So, are you familiar with Sig Sauer?

CANDACE OWENS: Yes, I am actually.

SHAWN RYAN: Good. So I got a buddy over there, his name’s Jason.

CANDACE OWENS: Okay.

SHAWN RYAN: And Jason is the VP of marketing over there. He got really excited knowing that you’re coming on, so I told him I thought a lot of people are coming after you, so he wanted me to present you with this.

CANDACE OWENS: That is so nice, Jason. Yes, that is so sweet.

SHAWN RYAN: I’ll tell you, they’re awesome too. Really good company. Yeah, they’re the best.

We were just talking about pedophiles earlier. We did this big episode on Roblox with this kid named Shlep, and he unveiled what was going on on Roblox. We screen recorded the whole thing, and they were using— so the developers were putting in— they have one game, they’ve recreated the Sandy Hook shooting, they’ve recreated pretty much all the mass shootings, and you go in there and they actually even have the victims’ names that were killed in the schools over the characters’ heads.

CANDACE OWENS: Wow.

SHAWN RYAN: And you go in there as the shooter and kill these f*ing kids.

CANDACE OWENS: No.

SHAWN RYAN: And one of the weapons they have is a Sig Sauer. So we got it to Sig, and Sig demanded Roblox take all their weapons out of the game.

CANDACE OWENS: Wow. So disturbing. So disturbing that that was even a thing. I mean, they want your kids one way or the other. They want their minds. And we have to fight. We have to be the generation that fights back. And we’re only going to fight back by recognizing that it’s real. It’s not conspiracy. It’s real.

SHAWN RYAN: So anyways, here you go. This is the— wow, 365.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you, Jason over at Sig Sauer.

SHAWN RYAN: With the new Romeo X optic. That’s a Sig Sauer can suppressor there, so won’t be too loud. Takes 17 rounds plus one in the pipe.

CANDACE OWENS: Take out a few pedophiles quietly. Quietly.

SHAWN RYAN: What’s that?

CANDACE OWENS: Take out a few pedophiles quietly.

SHAWN RYAN: That’ll do it.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, that’s amazing. Thank you so much.

SHAWN RYAN: You’re welcome.

CANDACE OWENS: It’s absolutely amazing.

SHAWN RYAN: You’re welcome. Maybe we can break that in on the range before you head out.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah, there we go, right? Yeah. Oh, that’s so kind. That is— I mean, people are amazing.

SHAWN RYAN: So kind.

CANDACE OWENS: No, I know, but I mean, people are just amazing. They’ve just been in so many ways. I mean, that’s what keeps you going. You have to be reminded that we’re the majority. Don’t forget what Charlie said, right? There’s always more slaves.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah. Yeah. How’d you get into— go ahead.

Candace’s Journey to Catholicism

CANDACE OWENS: I just, I know I feel the energy of that though. I feel like though they feel threatened.

SHAWN RYAN: How’d you get into Catholicism?

CANDACE OWENS: My husband, he converted to Catholicism. He read— they say “read theology,” we would say “majored in theology” in college. And he went in, which was a very big deal obviously in England, decided to convert to Catholicism in his last year of school after studying theology. And once we had our kid, he was really being pulled back into the church and spending a lot of time there and really getting involved.

It was sort of just this another layer of my husband that I wanted to know. I just, I did not get it at all. And so, as I am, I decided I wanted to understand it. And it was sort of this perfect storm of where I was at politically, reading about Sigmund Freud and his deep hatred for the Catholic Church— I mean, deep hatred for the Catholic Church— and basically creating modern psychology as a way to counter the Catholic Church, to replace the priests with therapists, to disrupt that system.

And I was going, wow, every time I read a book, it somehow is telling me that the Freemasons were very anti-Catholic, and I’m not looking for it. Even that book I just mentioned to you tells you about how they were ever intentional about making sure that the New Atlantis would not be Catholic. So once I was awake to the Freemasonic hatred and the pedophile-protecting hatred toward the Catholic Church and how they plan to infiltrate and break her apart from the inside and break apart the Catholic Empire that way, I saw this sort of big piece of history, really, that I was compelled toward.

And there has to be— for something to try to destroy it that bad, for Satan to hate it that bad, it’s because it represents truth. And so I am very compelled toward learning the Orthodox tradition, the Catholic tradition. I am— my mind is there.

I mean, Russia was just— I just recently went to Russia, and I’m just floored at how much is there. I mean, I need to spend time in Russia to be able to hold artifacts that old. I was, I did an interview with a guy, his name is Nikita. He’s an incredible, very accomplished director. Anyway, he— I asked him something. He had something in his office, and I was like, oh, how old is this? And he sort of laughed and he said, “Older than America.” There’s something about that. And I felt so like a spiritual thirst for more of Russia, like the secrets, like they’ve just been sort of waiting and they’ve kept the books and before they were translated and taken. And I, yeah, I just really want to spend more time in Moscow.

Reflections on Russia

SHAWN RYAN: You like it there?

CANDACE OWENS: Loved it.

SHAWN RYAN: What misconceptions do we have about Russia?

CANDACE OWENS: All of them. All of them. And there’s a— you start to notice a pattern, that is, the Zionists really hate Russia, although they’ll tell you that that’s where their family came from, right? The pogroms, that they— “my family left after the pogroms.” That never happened. You know, assassinated the tsar, Alexander II, and it was a Jewish plot. I mean, there’s no question about that. And I mean, it’s just a remarkable thing. It’s like no matter what they do, they’re the victims. It’s kind of this thing. And they did end up, a lot of them, coming to America. And then obviously the Satanic Romanov Rituals and a lot of them came into America.

But Russia, if you have an American mindset about it, you would think it’s dilapidated, that there’s no freedom, highly impoverished, that the people hate Vladimir Putin. I don’t know, that would be my general sense of what everybody thinks. And also that they hate Americans, right? I think everyone believes that. Couldn’t be more opposite. Could not be— I mean, they absolutely love Americans. Absolutely love Americans. They don’t even understand why Americans think what they think about Russia. They are so confused by the American, the Western perception, if you will, about Russia.

Unbelievably safe. I think I also thought it was maybe in the back of my head thought it would be unsafe. It was unbelievably safe, clean. It really makes you angry about the fact that our men are sacrificing their lives and their bodies in the Middle East, and they come back to the way our country looks. Even our capital city, which should be the shiny example— at least make the city nice in DC. You’ve got drug addicts walking around, gay pride flags, people walking around half naked, tweaking on the streets of DC.

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah.

CANDACE OWENS: Not Moscow. It’s an immaculate city. And the history— as someone who loves history, to have gone to the monasteries, to see the old churches, it stirs your soul. Beauty stirs your soul. And there’s a reason why whenever commies, who I believe came to America, and that’s what we’re dealing with right now, and they’re the ones that are in power— communism and Zionism are brother and sister. They seek to destroy history. They seek to make it so that people don’t aspire to beauty, because when you don’t see beauty, it’s reflected in your soul.

I mean, in Catholicism, that is a belief that you need beauty, right? It’s beauty, truth, and goodness. These are the pillars, and when you don’t see beauty, when you don’t have truth, and when you don’t have goodness, a society falls apart. When you don’t aim toward those transcendentals in life. When you walk around and you see these churches and the relics and the medieval intention, the beauty of walking into a church that has stood there for that long, it stirs something inside of you.

I felt inspired. There’s only way I could describe it. I wanted to know more. I wanted to be smarter. I wanted to work harder. And in America, they want everyone to sort of live in nothingness, like really close to your neighbor, built in flimsy homes. Nothing is structured anymore. And there’s a reason for that, because they don’t want you to think about history. They don’t want you to think about permanence. They want you to think that you’re here and then you’re gone, that you have— don’t think about ancestry. Don’t think about ancestry. Don’t think about living in your dad’s home when you get older.

That’s what we’re drifting toward. We’re drifting toward that emptiness of the Bolshevik Revolution when they made them close the churches and they made the state religion atheism. America has been under a Bolshevik spell, I think, for a long time.

Life as an Independent Voice

SHAWN RYAN: Yeah, it does seem like there’s an awakening happening. But well, how do you like being independent?

CANDACE OWENS: I’m just the happiest person. I could never go back to working for someone other than my husband.

SHAWN RYAN: You are crushing it.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you. Thank you.

SHAWN RYAN: Congratulations.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you. And you know, I owe it to my team for believing in me, and even when I’m sure they don’t believe in me, I’m sure they’ve got to have some questions. The one thing we will never agree on in my control room is the moon landing. I got these guys who need it to be true. His name is Skyler. Yeah, and one day I will bring him over to the dark side, which is the— I’m like, “The moon landings didn’t happen, Sky. Moon landings didn’t happen, Sky.” But he’s like, “No, no, I think they did, they did happen.” But we have a great time.

And it really is a blessing to be able to work from home and to be in control of your own life and to say what you actually think, without consequence. The threat of the sword of Damocles above your head and having someone— am I going to be in trouble and get brought into the CEO’s office because Ben didn’t like that? I’m so glad it’s all removed from my life and that I landed on my feet in large part, in every part, thanks to my husband and faith in God, really trusting that I could follow truth and say something that was good and right and that he would have my back. And he did.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, I’m really happy for you.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you.

SHAWN RYAN: And it’s inspired a lot of people. So congratulations.

Gratitude to Fans and Reflections on Hardship

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you. And I do also just want to say I would not be here without the fans. They— I mean, they will never know what that year was like for me to have people— which they’re trying to do to Megyn, but it was magnified, I think, because I was kind of early to the cancellation party. Just try to take everything from your family. I mean, they don’t want you to just be fired, they want you destroyed. Yeah, like, it’s so evil. And if it wasn’t for my fans, the people who signed up, who sent the emails, “Keep going, we’re with you, please don’t sell us out”— that’s the other thing, because they’re so used to that. They’re so used to someone just taking the money.

I wouldn’t be here without them. The people who prayed around the world, who pray every single day around the world for my safety, who write us and tell us that they’re keeping us in their prayers, which is the most important part. My family could not have gotten through it without them. And so I just feel like I also just need to say thank you, especially with the Charlie assassination, because that was definitely the toughest few months of my entire career was dealing with that.

I mean, it still is tough, but I’ve now accepted that he’s not coming back, and I’ve accepted that he was betrayed, so it’s easier now that I’m contending with reality. But those months that followed, I always say to my team, I make the joke, I’m like, “If I can get through the last 2 years and I didn’t end up like shaving my head and going into a loony bin, I’m telling you, I think I’m the most emotionally stable person that I know,” because I don’t know who else could have made it out of that without losing their mind. Yeah, it’s been a tough go.

But my husband was reminding me, we were out for a run the other day because sometimes you get the perspective. I was saying to him when we had someone, a member on our team suffered a seizure in Russia, and Russia has been amazing and taking care of him, who served his country for 12 years and couldn’t get a frickin’ appointment at the VA and knew something was wrong. And they told him it was in his head and here’s some Xanax. And it turns out it wasn’t his head, but it was a massive brain clot.

But anyway, my husband and I— I was saying to him, those moments where we thought he was going to die and you just— I was sitting here just going, “Really, God? Like, do we need to have a chat? Like, what’s up? Are we fighting? What’s going on?” And you get those moments. And George just has the best perspective. And he just reminded me about the lessons of Job and the biblical lessons of Job and having everything taken away from you. And remembering God’s perspective on that. What I contend with and not seeing why things are happening, not being able to understand the bigger picture.

And it’s so important to always have that perspective, is we are just, as I always say, little blips in an equation that we don’t understand. And at random times in the equation, God puts a plus in your life and then puts a minus 5. He’s like, “Here’s +1, here’s -5, here’s division, here’s multiplication.” And you’re going, “What on earth is going on?” And we’re not meant to see the sum of it. But occasionally I think we’re allowed a glimpse into recognizing in the retrospect that when he was doing all those minuses, it actually was a plus. You know, you get to look back and go, “Man, you really wanted me out of The Daily Wire like yesterday, and you did it in the most, in the craziest way. But man, were you looking out.” And so, thank God even for the hardships.

Final Question: Guest Recommendations

SHAWN RYAN: Good for you. Good for you. All right, last question. If you had 3 guests to recommend for this show, who would they be?

CANDACE OWENS: Phil Tourney, USS Liberty.

SHAWN RYAN: Okay.

CANDACE OWENS: Changed my life. There’s just something about a person who’s held on to something like that their whole life and felt that they could never move on because of their brothers being ruthlessly murdered. That just— you really see it, how evil our government, what they’re capable of, you know. I would definitely say Phil Tourney.

Can I give you one that I’ve never had on my show, but I feel like you’ll beat me to it? Every year I try to get Vladimir Putin. I feel like you’ll beat me to it. I feel like you gotta just do something. You gotta get like Kim Jong-un like out of nowhere, you know, right? I feel like that’s where we’re at. Like, we now need to know— they’ve told so many lies about us and like they’re protecting Jeffrey Epstein. I’m like, okay, let me go find all the people that you’re saying— if Jeffrey Epstein’s good and Putin is evil, I gotta go figure out like what’s going on really.

Yeah, that would be fascinating. Like when Tucker went over and did Putin, I was like seized by it. And yeah, give me like a Phil Tourney, Kim Jong-un, and/or Putin. And I’d like to see your wife.

SHAWN RYAN: She’s been on here. Twice.

CANDACE OWENS: Has she? Okay. I was going to— you gotta do another family member of yours.

SHAWN RYAN: I don’t like putting my family on display.

CANDACE OWENS: I know, but it’s— you learn the most about people when they speak to their family members. And that’s why I love to watch those podcasts. I’m like, oh, suddenly the—

SHAWN RYAN: How about Kanye?

CANDACE OWENS: They’d be great.

SHAWN RYAN: You think he would do it?

CANDACE OWENS: I do. He’s great.

SHAWN RYAN: Right on.

CANDACE OWENS: Mm-hmm. I’m due for Kanye. I just want to go to see one of his concerts. They look incredible. But Kanye’s expression is music. When he does the show, that’s his medium, you know.

Closing Prayer

SHAWN RYAN: You want to end this with a prayer?

CANDACE OWENS: Absolutely.

SHAWN RYAN: All right, you lead it.

CANDACE OWENS: Oh no, you have to lead the prayer.

SHAWN RYAN: You lead it, it’s your episode.

CANDACE OWENS: Okay, I’ll lead the prayer. I never lead the prayer in my house. My granddad was always like, if there’s a guy there, they always lead the prayer. Okay, so this is— I’ll just do just how I kind of pray, but I feel like I have to incorporate you into it. So, whatever.

So, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit— dear Lord, we thank you for this conversation. We hope that people who are hearing this conversation are impacted. There are a lot of people that are suffering in the world, and it’s difficult for us to contend with why that is and why that suffering is allowed to happen. But we always at first come to you with gratitude, and recognizing that there is a lot of goodness that is working at the same time, that there are so many people who are waking up and understanding what is happening in this world on your time and on a timeline that makes sense.

We pray for the children that are suffering all across the world, the people who are in war-torn areas. We pray that you protect them and that you cover them, the people that are growing up without parents, without water, without food, and that you are with them.

We pray for the information that you want us to have. We come to you in gratitude for the platform that you have given me, the platform that you have given Sean Ryan— a platform that I don’t think either of us would have ever thought or think that we deserve. And we continue to ask that you use these platforms to do your will. Because these are your platforms and these things can be taken away from us in any moment.

We thank you for the health of our family. We thank you for the energy to keep going. We thank you for the people that you have put in our lives, even the bad ones. We pray especially for our enemies and the people that seek to do harm on us, because only you can move them and change those people in the world.

In your name we pray. In Jesus Christ, amen. Through Jesus Christ, amen.

Closing Remarks

SHAWN RYAN: Beautiful. Thank you, Candace. It was an honor.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you so much. It was an honor to be here. I’m so— I feel like I was last, and I was like, man, maybe he just doesn’t like me. I would love to do his show. Like, I was like, I thought your show was so cool.

SHAWN RYAN: Thank you.

CANDACE OWENS: I’d like to be on there.

SHAWN RYAN: Well, you made it.

CANDACE OWENS: I made it.

SHAWN RYAN: It was a fascinating interview. I’ve really enjoyed this.

CANDACE OWENS: There will be a lot of tears on the internet, I can guarantee you.

SHAWN RYAN: Awesome interview.

CANDACE OWENS: Yeah.

SHAWN RYAN: All right, I wish you the best of luck.

CANDACE OWENS: Thank you so much. Cheers.

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