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Home » Rory Sutherland Behavioural Economics Humans And Advertising

Rory Sutherland Behavioural Economics Humans And Advertising

TRANSCRIPT:

Introduction

LAUREN LAVERNE: Thank you very much Andy. Okay time for our final speaker before lunch who’s been described to me by Herb as the Boris Johnson of the advertising world. You can imagine my excitement. I am agog so I’m going to move on and welcome Rory Sutherland.

So listen let’s examine the evidence. Boris born in 1964, Rory 1965 it says here. Both had short early careers in proper jobs before they fell into writing. I know how that goes. Boris became the editor of The Spectator and Rory continues to write them a column entitled The Wiki Man and his day job is officially the vice chairman of Ogilvy UK but he’s perhaps becoming better known as the hugely witty and insightful communicator of counter-intuitive thinking. Please give him a very warm welcome Rory Sutherland.

RORY SUTHERLAND: Thank you very much. In some ways it’s a marvellous introduction and a wonderful analogy in fact because if I sort of cock up or ramble or just go off topic it can be considered perfectly on brand so thank you very much for that one.

Cognitive Biases and Problem-Solving

I describe myself as an advertarian simply because one of the things that fascinates me in life is I suppose from behavioural economics is what you might call cognitive biases. That when actually solving problems we are very very strongly biased towards certain solutions and against other ones. One of the things that strikes me as interesting is that the way society seems to be structured is we are massively biased in favour of solving problems with stuff and of course has quite a bit of bearing on what Andy was saying earlier.

We seem to have a massive bias both as individuals and as institutions towards solving problems with stuff, with engineering, with technology, with gadgetry or possibly with legislation, with compulsion and almost the last resort we seem to adopt is actually psychological solutions. Now what I’m not saying and I make this point absolutely clearly at the beginning is I’m not one of those people who claims that actually you know you don’t actually need medical research all we need to do is feel better about being ill. Although actually it is interesting that this is one of the few countries where placebos are actually illegal. Now I think placebos are actually pretty good, they’re extremely cheap, they’re effective, proven to work and they don’t really have any side effects or if they do they’re imaginary so you can satisfactorily ignore them.

But I would like to say that I’m not one of those people who emphatically is sort of anti-scientific and believes all we need to do is actually reframe everything and the world’s problems will go away. What I do think is interesting is how slow we are to actually look at psychological questions of happiness and what people really value in what we do and how comfortable we are always to come up with solutions that either involve you know using in some ways scarce materials or large amounts of energy messing with reality or indeed something I also don’t like which is sort of legislation and compulsion. But actually one of the things the government does is it actually attempts compulsory solutions, solutions involving coercion before it actually tries persuasion.

The Advertarian Perspective

So this is just a subject that interests me widely and so I occasionally call myself an advertarian which is that I believe that actually where possible you should involve interfering with people’s behaviour and actually persuasion is a vastly preferable thing. Why is it that people are so uncomfortable? I think it is that particularly institutions and far more so than individuals who thrive on a rational justification of actions to each other. So every single committee or organisation within a body has to explain itself rationally rather than emotionally. Therefore biasing the actions of that organisation towards what you might call the obvious, the direct, the first level solution and what I also call really a kind of what I can only call physics envy. That actually people love to think that organisations and people work the same way that machinery does.

If you look at people in management consultancy the overwhelming majority of them will actually have a background in something like engineering and they’ll have spent their time dealing with systems where input A, increasing input A probably increases in output B and those things happen in some sort of vague proportion one to the other. Absolutely fine if you’re running a steam engine within reason. Pretty good if you’re dealing with machinery of some kind. Essential if you’re dealing with some form of complex machinery. The only problem is it’s a pretty hopeless measure for dealing with people. One of the things you mentioned is that wonderful incentive scheme where of course by increasing the number of page views the bonus goes up. What that’s known as actually is a perverse incentive. It’s an incentive which to management consultants seems completely logical and sensible.

Perverse Incentives

The only problem is that the effect it probably has is absolutely the opposite of that which is intended. A great example of perverse incentives came about in I think it was 18th century France when they were badly overrun with squirrels. So they set up a bounty, a perfectly logical sort of incentive scheme for squirrel’s tails and you got paid a certain number of sous for every squirrel’s tail you presented to the authorities and they thought well in you know just a few years the whole problem of squirrels will have gone completely. “What seems strange is the amount they paid out every year kept going up but the squirrel problem didn’t go away at all. In fact if anything it was getting worse and it was only then that they discovered that people had actually started intensive squirrel farming in order to make money out of the tails.” That’s what’s actually called a perverse incentive.

Now what you’ve got to realise is that most human behaviour doesn’t follow physical laws.